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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Trevor Hill on January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

Title: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trevor Hill on January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM
Quite an interesting article in the Sunday Times, while not quite relevant to the Liam/Gerry Adams thread, I think it raises an issue that some may have missed. If Gerry does resign because of his brother, there really is no one to take over.

Shortly after last June's local elections, a private document wended its way through the backrooms of Sinn Fein headquarters. Marked for the attention of party leaders, it painted a dark and pessimistic picture of the state of Sinn Fein.

A "culture of fear" pervaded the organisation, it said, leaving members disempowered and frustrated. The party's bright hope for the future, Mary Lou McDonald, had little hope of securing a seat in Dublin Central in the next general election, while Aengus Ó Snodaigh was also likely to lose his Dublin seat. "Sinn Fein is in serious and potentially critical decline in Dublin," it said. "We are one election away from being totally irrelevant in Dublin, and the south in general."

Six months after writing the internal review, Killian Forde had still not received a response from his party leaders. He took this to be further evidence of a refusal by Sinn Fein to engage with anyone who spoke out of turn.

The silence was compounded by a public rap across the knuckles from the party for voting for the Dublin city council budget. The 39-year-old councillor decided he had had enough. Last week he announced his intention to jump ship and join the Labour party.

The resignation of a local representative would not normally merit the attention of the national media, but Forde's defection marked a trend: he was the fourth Sinn Fein councillor to leave the party in six months. To lose one might be regarded as misfortune; to lose four signals political danger.

With the peace process in excellent health in Northern Ireland and a growing appetite for socialist politics in the republic, Sinn Fein should be thriving and expanding. So why would any councillor choose now to leave?

Is it, as party officials have valiantly claimed, an insignificant blip in an otherwise prospering organisation? Or has the absence of a leader in the republic, combined with the infamous party discipline, made it unattractive to both voters and politicians alike? Is there any truth in Forde's claim that Sinn Fein is one election away from oblivion in the republic?

FOR party headquarters, the figures don't add up. Between 1999 and 2004, Sinn Fein enjoyed unprecedented electoral success, increasing its number of council seats from 21 to 54 and its TDs from one to five. But instead of it continuing to ride that wave of popularity, the tide seems to have gone out.

Far from achieving its publicly stated objective of doubling the party's Dail seats in the 2007 elections, Sinn Fein lost a TD when Sean Crowe was defeated in Dublin South West. Suddenly, all the pre-election speculation about a Fianna Fail-Sinn Fein coalition seemed rather premature.

Last year, the party managed to hold its 54 council spots, but McDonald was unseated from the European parliament by Joe Higgins, a socialist rival. McDonald's €160,000 budget, about four times the amount spent by Higgins, wasn't enough to convince the electorate.

Pearse Doherty, Sinn Fein's Donegal-based senator, said it was simply unrealistic to expect big wins at every election.

"Last June we consolidated the huge growth we had made in the previous elections," he said. "We have also been attracting lots of new members to the party. Last year was one of our best years for that."

Sure enough, figures from party headquarters show that between 2007 and 2009 there was an increase in the numbers joining the party, as membership grew from 4,366 to 4,823. College applications in particular are booming, with 1,300 students joining the party last year.

It seems to fit with Doherty's claim, the profile of a small party that is building steadily, after a brief spurt in growth. But closer inspection by one political analyst reveals a considerably more volatile situation.

"If you look at what happened to Sinn Fein in Dublin between the 2004 and 2009 elections, you see there was a huge turnover of councillors," he said. "Six left and were replaced in Dublin city council, there was another in Tallaght, and even in places like Donegal there were resignations."

A certain level of turnover is expected in every party between elections, but the analyst said this was well above the norm.

"The last time I saw anything like it was in 1991, when there were mass defections from the Green party," he said. "It points to something being radically wrong somewhere in the party. With another four having resigned in the past six months, you start to see there's a definite trend. They might say they're not worried about it, but they would have to be. It's actually more surprising and more concerning for Sinn Fein than it would be for other parties, because one thing they are renowned for is their discipline."

Forde believes that it is precisely this notorious discipline that is driving members away.

"At the time of the peace process it was very important that no one stepped out of line, and I think we all understood that," he said. "But when you spend 15 years punishing people for being off message, you get a situation where people are afraid to express any view that is different or new. You would notice that people who spoke out were isolated or just didn't appear on a particular committee any more. When people see how militant it is, they just don't stay. Hundreds of people have left from the Dublin organisation in the last couple of years."

Doherty denied there was any problem with democracy in the Sinn Fein organisation, saying that one of the reasons Forde left was that he could not accept the democratic decision of the party to reject the Dublin city council estimates.

"Killian Forde also left because he wanted to advance his own political career," he said. "If you want a career in politics, Sinn Fein is the wrong party for you. We are not in it for ourselves: we're there to serve the people."

It's a noble sentiment, but a startling one too. Running a party on the basis that nobody looking for a career need apply seems a sure-fire way of driving the most talented and ambitious young politicians into the arms of the opposition parties.

"I don't think so," said Doherty. "It's that type of attitude that is at the core of what Sinn Fein is about, and that will attract the type of candidates we want — the people who see it as a privilege to serve the party."

Unfortunately for Sinn Fein, there seems to be a dearth of such politicians in Ireland.

Doherty himself is one of the new hopes for the party, and is tipped to take the seat vacated by Fianna Fail's Pat "the Cope" Gallagher in Donegal when the government gets round to holding a by-election.

McDonald and Toiréasa Ferris are also regularly name-checked by party officials when defending the ageing profile of their public representatives.

Ferris, who failed in her bid for a European parliament seat in Ireland South in June, caused some controversy last year when she claimed Sinn Fein meant "nothing to the bulk of people in the south" and was viewed as a "northern-based party, irrelevant to the everyday concerns of people in the 26 counties". She later said these remarks were taken out of context.

McDonald, in particular, was being groomed by the party to take a leadership role but despite huge resources being pumped into her 2007 general election campaign and European election bid, she failed to get elected.

"McDonald is just a defeated docket at the moment," said one Labour analyst. "We haven't seen or heard a thing from her since last June. Things can obviously change quickly in politics, but at the moment that project has definitely failed."

In the absence of any obvious successor, it seems Gerry Adams, the Sinn Fein president, will soldier on in the position he first took up in 1983. Even though former and current members of Sinn Fein are reluctant to admit it, Adams is becoming one of the party's biggest liabilities in the republic.

"The lack of leadership in the south is a huge issue for them," said one analyst. "Adams is very confident talking about the north, but ask him about the economic crisis here and he looks completely lost. He was totally shown up in the leaders' television debate before the last general election, and that did Sinn Fein a lot of damage. If they want to stop the tide going out, they need to get a strong southern leader."

But even if Sinn Fein can successfully grapple with its organisational difficulties, can the party convince the Irish electorate to take it seriously?

On paper, Sinn Fein has some potentially strong selling points, such as the fact that their TDs and senators continue to earn only the average industrial wage, which, in the midst of a recession, should give them a moral advantage over their rivals, the Labour party. They have deep-rooted socialist policies, which should appeal to an electorate scarred by our recently imploded capitalist economy.

"I think we have the right policies and the right politics, but we're not telling people about it in the right way," said Ferris. Doherty, too, believes that the party is failing to communicate what it is offering. Both reject the allegation from some commentators that Sinn Fein was a "one-trick-pony", and that the success of the peace process has, conversely, spelled the death of the party in the south.

Forde also rejects this assessment. "We actually produced a very sound and comprehensive document about the banking crisis," he said. "The problem is, the crisis happened in October, and it took us until March or April to get it out, so obviously no media organisation wanted to cover it then. Sinn Fein needs to change its mindset from crisis management to normal, routine party work, but that change has to come from the top, and it's not coming."

But with no leader in the republic to speak to the media on crucial issues, and the party's slow reaction to events robbing them of media coverage, Sinn Fein has found itself consistently outshone by the Labour party.

It has also struggled to maintain good relations with its socialist comrades, and is finding itself increasingly isolated in both the Dail and at local level. Christy Burke, the former Sinn Fein councillor who, last June, resigned from the party after 30 years, said Sinn Fein's refusal to compromise was one of his primary reasons for leaving the party.

"Somebody in head office needs to cop on and realise that you can't go looking for all the gravy and never dish it out," he said. "We will never get anywhere if we vote against everything all the time. The Sinn Fein councillors who voted against the Dublin city council estimates thought they were voting against bin charges, but they were also voting against money for playgrounds and swimming pools and community development. I left because I wanted to be a player, to start having a real influence. Sinn Fein has to get real. If they want to see results, they have to start co-operating with other groups."

In 2007, there did seem to be some glimmer of hope for such co-operation, when Labour and Sinn Fein made history by agreeing to a pact for the Seanad elections. It led to intense speculation that a left-wing collaboration might be in the offing, but since then there has been little sign of any further co-operation between the two parties.

Despite this, Doherty envisages a future "left alliance" involving Sinn Fein, the Labour party, and left-wing independents. "Irish politics can't always be about the Tweedledum and Tweedledee combination," he said. "We have seen huge changes in the political landscape in the past few years. People want something different. The left parties and left-wing independents could come together and give voters the option of a majority left government for the first time in this country. That would be a real alternative."

The Labour party is considerably less enthusiastic about this prospect. Asked if the party would now consider an alliance with Sinn Fein, one Labour analyst laughed. "Of the 80 seats that Fianna Fail lost in the local elections, we took more than 30 and Sinn Fein didn't take any," he said. "I don't know what the future holds for them. But the Labour party is the left alliance."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 18, 2010, 08:03:59 AM
Where did you take that from? It a little sensational.

I think the success of SF between 99 and 04 was huge and they are still holding that ground. It's been a case of 2 steps forward and stop since then so I doubt if they are too worried. I'd say SF look at it over a longer period and that their place in politics didn't start in 99. Since then they are in Government in the north and could become the biggest party in the north.

The 4 cllrs who left all left for different reasons and went to different places so I don't know if you can call that a trend. 1 went to FF, 1 went to LAB, 1 to Eirigi and 1 independent. All bar 1 left within 6 months of being elected on a SF ticket. All were SF reps who held their seats. I'd say all were probably in the wrong party to begin with.

Mary Lou McD didn't loose her seat to Higgans. Dublin was reduced from a 4 seater to a 3 seater and she lost out on that. SF was the obvious one to lose out there. Higgans took the FF seat.

It's a little encouraging to hear Forde left to futher his political career. Brian Lenihan claimed in the Oct budget that politics was a vocation. I laughed when I heard that coming from FF. It's nice to know that there still might be people out there who are not in it for themselves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 11:25:09 AM
Would have to agree that this story is sensationalist. Fordes remark that he "wants to be a player" and the fact that he didn't resign his seat won on a SF ticket, contrary to the pledge taken on becoming a SF cllr. essentially proves he was motivated by careerism. In county councils, SF gained 2 cllrs in cork & wicklow, and gained one in 6 city councils & one in 7 more county councils & the figures in the article shows SF remains the choice of young people. No reason to panic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on January 18, 2010, 11:37:52 AM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

With the peace process in excellent health in Northern Ireland and a growing appetite for socialist politics in the republic, Sinn Fein should be thriving and expanding. So why would any councillor choose now to leave?


Stopped trying to take it seriously after that. The idea that a) the peace process is in excellent health, b) there's a growing appetite for socialist policies in the south ??? where's that coming from, and c) Sinn fein represent a socialist ticket. Wrong on all counts IMO.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Silky on January 18, 2010, 12:25:56 PM
It seems to be a Dublin problem rather than the whole country.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 18, 2010, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Silky on January 18, 2010, 12:25:56 PM
It seems to be a Dublin problem rather than the whole country.

Sinn Féin in meltdown is a problem?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 08:47:19 PM
Yes Sinn Fein in meltdown would b a problem as they currently represent the only effective force in Irish Republican politics. Lets face it, if we're talking about the free state here, they are the only republican party in leinster house and the only party to stand for election in each of Ireland's 32 counties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 18, 2010, 09:16:44 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 08:47:19 PM
Yes Sinn Fein in meltdown would b a problem as they currently represent the only effective force in Irish Republican politics. Lets face it, if we're talking about the free state here, they are the only republican party in leinster house and the only party to stand for election in each of Ireland's 32 counties.
How does all of that mean that SF in meltdown would be a problem?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 09:17:55 PM
a lot of shinners walk around thinking the run the place, I'd love to see them taken down a peg or two
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 09:24:03 PM
How would it not be a problem? No Republican party in leinster house or standing in all 32 counties would mean a savage blow to those of us who aspire to a united Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: camloughlad on January 18, 2010, 09:27:20 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 09:17:55 PM
a lot of shinners walk around thinking the run the place, I'd love to see them taken down a peg or two
how do ya work that out
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 09:28:39 PM
Pints, unfortunately partitionists do run the place. Therefor is it not they who should b taken down a peg or two? This thread is about a newspaper article not a thread for whether or not you like SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 18, 2010, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 09:24:03 PM
How would it not be a problem? No Republican party in leinster house or standing in all 32 counties would mean a savage blow to those of us who aspire to a united Ireland.
How do you make that out?  I can't see why it would change anyone's aspirations to a united Ireland (whatever that is)

If you look at it objectively, you could say that they are merely administering British rule in the north in much the same way they said they never would.  See, they always knew that negotiations could only get so much...

Seamus Mallon coined it right, it's "Sunningdale for slow learners" and they have no vision or path to a united Ireland... because at the minute, none exists
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: camloughlad on January 18, 2010, 09:27:20 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 09:17:55 PM
a lot of shinners walk around thinking the run the place, I'd love to see them taken down a peg or two
how do ya work that out
I'm not sure what you mean by that or what you're asking. 

Nally, I'm not talking about the areas of government, I'm talking about Sinn Fein activists at local level (not them all I have to say) going around thinking they own the place.  I wouldnt mind seeing them taking down a peg or two. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mylestheslasher on January 18, 2010, 09:38:10 PM
A lot of you boys are in the North and may not be fully aware of what is happening SF in the south. The honeymoon is over, people want some ideas from SF and are tired of constant blathering about the peace process. Adams has become a liability as he is completely out of touch with what  is going on in the South. O Caolain should have been let me SF's main spokesman for the last general election but instead we got Gerry Adams getting obliterated on national tv debates. SF should be making hay in these times as a left wing party but are not positioned to do so and I fear for them in the south big time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 18, 2010, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 18, 2010, 09:38:10 PM
A lot of you boys are in the North and may not be fully aware of what is happening SF in the south. The honeymoon is over, people want some ideas from SF and are tired of constant blathering about the peace process. Adams has become a liability as he is completely out of touch with what  is going on in the South. O Caolain should have been let me SF's main spokesman for the last general election but instead we got Gerry Adams getting obliterated on national tv debates. SF should be making hay in these times as a left wing party but are not positioned to do so and I fear for them in the south big time.
Unless something drastically changes I can see them getting wiped out in the next set of elections in the south
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 10:44:44 PM
I never said it would harm aspirations for a united ireland but it would b a problem for achieving it without republicans having a political party to mandate. And SF still at local level made gains and only had their growth slowed by a huge FG vote which was in protest at FFs handling of the recession. This trend of main opposition parties making gains was repeated around the world mid recession. And pints SF is activist based dont forget. Every party has activists it cud do without, SF no more than others.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 11:03:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 10:44:44 PM
I never said it would harm aspirations for a united ireland but it would b a problem for achieving it without republicans having a political party to mandate. And SF still at local level made gains and only had their growth slowed by a huge FG vote which was in protest at FFs handling of the recession. This trend of main opposition parties making gains was repeated around the world mid recession. And pints SF is activist based dont forget. Every party has activists it cud do without, SF no more than others.
Oh they do! I dont know any other party who has the wankers they have.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 18, 2010, 11:25:16 PM
SF the only republican party? In what way is SF more republican than - well, choose any party you like for comparison? And explain any criterion by which you consider the other parties non-republican. Are they all monarchist?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 11:41:27 PM
Irish Republicans are anti partitionist. How about i take as an example FF which has the the gall to call itself "the republican party". Last year one FF td condemned people from the south as being unpatriotic for spending their money in shops north of the border. At a debate last year in UCD argued in a debate in favour of Ireland rejoining the british commonwealth. They are a party which continually refuses to stand candidates in the 6 counties. I could go on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 18, 2010, 11:47:06 PM
Policy on partition is a woefully narrow definition of republicanism. But even under that definition, in what way is SF less partitionist than FF? I see FF in government on this side of the partition and SF in government on the other side (which I applaud, of course). And the difference is?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pangurban on January 19, 2010, 12:04:20 AM
They are both Hibernian nationalist parties who have long touch with their Republican roots, so as you say Hardy, their is little real difference
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 12:36:27 AM
It's the central core of modern Irish Republicanism. And your post makes no sense. The diff is that while FF only run for gov south of the border, SF run for gov on both sides of the border.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 19, 2010, 07:34:34 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 18, 2010, 09:38:10 PM
A lot of you boys are in the North and may not be fully aware of what is happening SF in the south. The honeymoon is over, people want some ideas from SF and are tired of constant blathering about the peace process. Adams has become a liability as he is completely out of touch with what  is going on in the South. O Caolain should have been let me SF's main spokesman for the last general election but instead we got Gerry Adams getting obliterated on national tv debates. SF should be making hay in these times as a left wing party but are not positioned to do so and I fear for them in the south big time.

I don't think you are aware what is happening SF in the South. That's the sort of spin that's coming from the opening post.

They are a small party in the South and have always been. They've been sitting on about 10% for the last 15 years. SF rarely talk about the peace process re southern politics unless it's relevant. Adams was nowhere to be seen in the last election or during the referendum. You are thinking of 07 when he made the balls of that one TV debate (it turns out none of the other three on the panel had a clue about economics either). The country did take a swing to the left from the centre in the last election. They ended up supporting labour who are one step to the left of centre and went no further (it was more of a shimmy than a swing). SF could move futher to the centre and cash in on this swing but then they would become irrelevant.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Declan on January 19, 2010, 07:50:26 AM
Interesting opinion piece in todays Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0119/1224262632210.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0119/1224262632210.html)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 19, 2010, 08:47:04 AM
Quote from: Declan on January 19, 2010, 07:50:26 AM
Interesting opinion piece in todays Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0119/1224262632210.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0119/1224262632210.html)

There is no evidence in that article to back up the opinion. SF hae been stale in the South since 99-04. This isn't 'freefall' or 'crisis' or any of the other doomsday buzz words. It's nothing. It's not going back and not going forward. If SF have peaked they are still relevant with 4 TD's and 50 plus cllrs.

Ferris had her best ever election and just missed out on an EU seat. Dotherty will probably win the byelection. Even if he doesn't win it I'd say his vote will increase. Mary Lou McD secured more votes last year in the Euro than she did in 04 when she got elected.

Ferris' and Forde's comments in AP were constructive. They were part of any election review which all partys do and are an important part of any democratic party.There are quotes in the article from Ferris and Forde taken out of context. Both were positive. Forde claimed that his was ignored and this was part of the reason he left. If he had have been listened to the quotes would still be there and they would proably still have been used to back up that opinion anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 19, 2010, 08:49:04 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 10:44:44 PM
I never said it would harm aspirations for a united ireland but it would b a problem for achieving it without republicans having a political party to mandate. And SF still at local level made gains and only had their growth slowed by a huge FG vote which was in protest at FFs handling of the recession. This trend of main opposition parties making gains was repeated around the world mid recession. And pints SF is activist based dont forget. Every party has activists it cud do without, SF no more than others.
With respect, you are not making any sense on this.  SDLP have as many republicans in it as SF do, same with FF in the south.  SF are not the only party which attracts republican support.  SF don't speak for all republicans and never have.

I now fully expect you to come back with more pro SF nonsense, which of course you are entitled to do.  Just don't expect to be allowed to get away with it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 10:21:44 AM
If I an entitled to, why then say "don't think you will be allowed" to get away with spouting pro SF "nonsense". Any why come up with points to counter an argument i didn't make. Not once did i suggest that all republicans support SF. However your claim that the SDLP and FF have as many republicans as SF is laughable. It wasn't I who nicknamed the SDLP the stoop down low party. A label it earnt for itself for its willingness to bend the knee to unionism. As for FF, my earlier post covered its partitionism
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 10:44:26 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 19, 2010, 08:49:04 AM
With respect, you are not making any sense on this.  SDLP have as many republicans in it as SF do, same with FF in the south. 

Eh? How could they if they take an oath to a monarch?  ??? Surely that is the complete antithesis of republicanism i.e. the British monarch is not a citizen and therefore not equal before the law.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 11:11:29 AM
That's well covered - the "empty formula" formula.

Nally Stand - would you not take my hint and get out a dictionary and look up "republican".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 11:34:47 AM
Hardy, Nally Stand is correct to include partition in any definition of republicanism as as the complete independence for the country as a sovereign republic is at the core of Irish Republicanism. To their credit SF have never recognised the legitimacy of the border, whereas most other political party not only recognise it but have done little to nothing to try and end it.

Therefore the argument follows that by recognising the legitimacy of the border they are denying the legitimacy an Irish Republic ergo they cannot be Irish Republicans. They could be wishy washy republicans in a DeValera sort of way who are happy to replace the British monarch with the Pope and the landlords with bankers and builders, but not Irish Republicans in the mould of Tone, Emmet, Russell, McCrackan, Duffy, Davis, Meagher, Pearse, Connolly, Breen, O'Malley, O'Donnell, Connolly-O'Brien, McBride, Ryan etc...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 11:48:14 AM
I was talking about the definition of republicanism. I don't know of any consistent definition of "Irish Republicanism". I think you'll get as many definitions as there are political parties, commentators and self-styled "Republican" splinter groups, so it would be a futile exercise to debate which party is more "Irish Republican" than another, a fall at the first fence being inevitable since agreement on the definition would be unreachable.

But I can't understand how you can claim that SF "have never recognised the legitimacy of the border" when they're administering a regime that's based on the legitimacy of the border. I'm sure they even continue to claim it themselves and even carry on happily believing it by some sort of provo version of the recently discovered phenomenon of mental reservation. But sensible people like you and me are not going to be that silly, are we?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 12:01:23 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 11:48:14 AM
I was talking about the definition of republicanism. I don't know of any consistent definition of "Irish Republicanism". I think you'll get as many definitions as there are political parties, commentators and self-styled "Republican" splinter groups, so it would be a futile exercise to debate which party is more "Irish Republican" than another, a fall at the first fence being inevitable since agreement on the definition would be unreachable.

Fair enough, but you were being a tad disingenuous by unhitching 'republicanism' from the tradition of 'Irish Republicanism'. 

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 11:48:14 AM
But I can't understand how you can claim that SF "have never recognised the legitimacy of the border" when they're administering a regime that's based on the legitimacy of the border. I'm sure they even continue to claim it themselves and even carry on happily believing it by some sort of provo version of the recently discovered phenomenon of mental reservation. But sensible people like you and me are not going to be that silly, are we?

All of the people I mentioned above would have engaged in the same type of administration at some stage and we wouldn't deny that they were all genuine republicans. The point remains that SF have been active in trying to end partition, whether not not they have been successful is a moot point, but I ask were all are the green and white papers on partition from the successive government parties in the south? Where are the proposals to end partition and secure the Republic of the First Dáil?   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 12:17:30 PM
Not being disingenuous. Just trying to do my bit for clarity in the debate and to remove the confusion between true republicanism and the myriad corruptions of it espoused by various shades of the political spectrum here.

I don't think SF have achieved any more than any other party in the effort to end partition. In fact, it can be argued that their antics over the last 80-odd years have done more to copper fasten the border than anything else.

The single most significant step towards the ending of partition was the Good Friday Agreement. And I think it can safely be said that the most important partition-related elements that facilitated that agreement were the Irish government's removal of Articles 2 and 3 from the constitution, the Brits' abandonment of the constitutional guarantee to unionists and the agreement of both sides to accept the principle of consent.

SF, as I remember it, opposed two of those three proposals.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 12:34:23 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 12:17:30 PM
Not being disingenuous. Just trying to do my bit for clarity in the debate and to remove the confusion between true republicanism and the myriad corruptions of it espoused by various shades of the political spectrum here.

I don't think SF have achieved any more than any other party in the effort to end partition. In fact, it can be argued that their antics over the last 80-odd years have done more to copper fasten the border than anything else.

The single most significant step towards the ending of partition was the Good Friday Agreement. And I think it can safely be said that the most important partition-related elements that facilitated that agreement were the Irish government's removal of Articles 2 and 3 from the constitution, the Brits' abandonment of the constitutional guarantee to unionists and the agreement of both sides to accept the principle of consent.

SF, as I remember it, opposed two of those three proposals.

I think we are straying a bit here Hardy and I don't have time to be debating the merits of SF and the GFA. As I understood the initial dispute you were challenging Nally Stand on why he/she feels SF are republican in ways that the other parties are not. I have clarified my interpretation of that in that to me republicanism comes in the context of Irish Republicanism in the tradition of those I have mentioned previously and Irish independence is a central plank in that tradition.

Now if political parties haven't been doing their damnedest to secure that national independence (which incorporates the end of partition) then I don't believe they are republican (big or small r). If you want to ask Nally Stand to refine his definition of republicanism go ahead and I may re-enter the debate when I have more time, but partition should still be a part of that debate whether you believe it to be "woeful" or not. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 01:36:44 PM
I'm finished too. Nothing to add.

Just as a matter of interest, since it has been speculated on here, are you sparring partner formerly known as Donagh? It doesn't matter, of course - just idle curiosity on my part.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 19, 2010, 03:42:41 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 12:17:30 PM


I don't think SF have achieved any more than any other party in the effort to end partition. In fact, it can be argued that their antics over the last 80-odd years have done more to copper fasten the border than anything else.

Absolutely. For just as Paisley, with his bigoted bellowing was often (fairly, imo) characterised as the "IRA's Chief Recruitment Officer", then SF/IRA, by their 2,000 murders etc, managed only to reinforce the determination of 1 million Unionists in NI to remain British, to implacable levels.

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 12:17:30 PM
The single most significant step towards the ending of partition was the Good Friday Agreement.
I haven't the time (or the inclination) to expand further, but imo, the GFA is proving to be the single most important step towards preserving  Partition since WWII (at least).

For as I've said before, the sad fact is that many Unionists are too stupid/fearful to recognise this, whereas many Republicans (SF/IRA effectively) are too dishonest/embarrassed to admit it.

Indeed, as it pleased me to point out at the time of his death, one of the chief Republican proponents of the GFA, Brian Keenan, was born in the UK and died in it. (Joe Cahill the same) And while I have no way of knowing how long I will live, I am more confident than ever that others will be able to make that point about me.

Me and Gerry Adams... :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 19, 2010, 06:33:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 08:47:19 PM
Sinn Feinare the only republican party in leinster house

FF( The Builders/Bankers Party) want a re United Independant Ireland,(without a monarchy) in accordance with the GFA when a majority of 6 Co voters want to end the current link with GB.
FG (once the big farmers and shopkeepers party) want  a re United Independant Ireland,(without a monarchy) in accordance with the GFA when a majority of 6 Co voters want to end the current link with GB.
Labour ( former Union officials party) want a re United Independant Ireland,(without a monarchy) in accordance with the GFA when a majority of 6 Co voters want to end the current link with GB.
Sinn Féin want .......... the same  ::)
So how are they the only republican party in the Dáil ?
I didnt  mention the Greens as they wont exist after 2012  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 19, 2010, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 10:44:26 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 19, 2010, 08:49:04 AM
With respect, you are not making any sense on this.  SDLP have as many republicans in it as SF do, same with FF in the south. 

Eh? How could they if they take an oath to a monarch?  ??? Surely that is the complete antithesis of republicanism i.e. the British monarch is not a citizen and therefore not equal before the law.
Don't be so pedantic, you know exactly what I mean  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 19, 2010, 06:41:29 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 10:21:44 AM
If I an entitled to, why then say "don't think you will be allowed" to get away with spouting pro SF "nonsense". Any why come up with points to counter an argument i didn't make. Not once did i suggest that all republicans support SF. However your claim that the SDLP and FF have as many republicans as SF is laughable. It wasn't I who nicknamed the SDLP the stoop down low party. A label it earnt for itself for its willingness to bend the knee to unionism. As for FF, my earlier post covered its partitionism
SF are as partitionist as those other parties, you just don't see it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: magickingdom on January 19, 2010, 06:44:36 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 18, 2010, 09:38:10 PM
A lot of you boys are in the North and may not be fully aware of what is happening SF in the south. The honeymoon is over, people want some ideas from SF and are tired of constant blathering about the peace process. Adams has become a liability as he is completely out of touch with what  is going on in the South. O Caolain should have been let me SF's main spokesman for the last general election but instead we got Gerry Adams getting obliterated on national tv debates. SF should be making hay in these times as a left wing party but are not positioned to do so and I fear for them in the south big time.

the whole of the sf leadership should go if for no other reason than to make a clean break with the past. when sf lose a european election seat to joe higgins who stands for everything sf stands for except is not sf its time to wake up and get a mirror and ask the hard questions. gerry adams will never recover in the south from the pre election 'debate' (debacle) where his incompetence on the southern economy was breathtaking. btw ff are a republician party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 07:16:59 PM
I don't think i have to take past i a red herring argument on defining Irish republicanism. It is generally accepted by the population (just not hardy) that partition is the central part. And if we want to talk about the other "republican" parties, the SDLP takes an oath to the british queen while the southern big two have been tripping over themselves for 3 years to invite this monarch to parade around dublin. One FF cllr in a UCD debate argued for rejoining the british commonwealth. Republican???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 07:41:05 PM
The commonwealth is full of republics. The British queen regularly visits republics without causing them to revoke their constitutions and become monarchies. Heads of state of our European partners regularly visit Dublin. Why do you fear a visit from the British queen? It's not very republican to be cringing before monarchs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 07:49:39 PM
I didn't use the word fear once. I don't think it is appropriate though. She still claims part of Ireland in her kingdom and still has not apologised for awarding medals of bravery to her troops who murdered 14 civil rights protesters in Derry, or apologised for her forces involvement in collusion. That is aside from the argument. I didn't say it would effect the status of the 26 counties as a republic once. While she claims to be queen of any part of Ireland it isn't very republican to invite her here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 07:53:10 PM
The people of Ireland have accepted her claim by overwhelming democratic majority, which is how it works in republics, so how would it be a token of republicanism to deny it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 08:00:56 PM
Read my last message re an apology. Don't forget hardy. A republic is a type of state. Irish Republicanism is a complex political ideology and despite all your denials, if you go outside now and ask 100 people what it's main basis is, i'd safely say over 90 and probably all of them will tell you it is about getting a united Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 08:18:06 PM
50 million people probably think Westlife is the best band in the world. Are they right?

(Are you saying that if Lizzie apologises for the behaviour of the British army everything will be fine and it's OK with you if she then visits Dublin? Surely not?)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 08:26:32 PM
I'm not here to suggest circumstances in which she should visit. I'm here to say that the current circumstances don't accomodate it and yet the "republicans" in the dail are crying out for this visit. And opinions on a band do not compare to central definitions of political ideology. I think if you asked 100 people both questions there would be a wide range of answers for favourite band and a consistent answer about what Irish Republicanism is about which is why your argument lacks any real credibility.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 08:39:43 PM
Sorry, I'm confused. You introduced the idea of an apology. You emphasised it in your next post. The apology argument has now disappeared, but the current circumstances are still not right, you say.

I assume it's your other argument that's in play now - that while she claims to be queen of the six counties, etc. it would be un-republican to invite her here? But, as I pointed out, the people of this republic have by ballot accepted her claim to be head of state of those in the North who wish to accept her as such. The people are sovereign in a republic. So how would it be un-republican for the government of this republic to use her claim as a basis for refusing to invite her? They certainly wouldn't be implementing any mandate from the people to that effect.

Not that I give a toss whether she ever visits this country or not. You're the one who introduced the possibility of a visit into a debate about republicanism. I don't see its relevance, that's all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 08:49:04 PM
I'm being entirely consistent in my argument. I also notice that you go fact have given up on my argument on what Irish republicanism is. As for her visit, i stand totally by my they that under the current circumstances it is not in the spirit of Irish Republicanism to invite her while she has not apologised and while partitionism exists. If FF are republicans, how to they see such a visit as enhancing the argument for Irish unity?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 09:01:28 PM
Why would a visit have to enhance the argument for Irish unity? Heads of state visit here all the time. Advancing the argument for Irish unity has never been a criterion for whether someone should visit.

What's this obsession with a visit anyway?

(Take that as rhetorical. While this has been great fun, I'm going to enjoy a pint even more).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: magickingdom on January 19, 2010, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 07:53:10 PM
The people of Ireland have accepted her claim by overwhelming democratic majority, which is how it works in republics, so how would it be a token of republicanism to deny it?

now that is what i call bullshit of the highest order, your a smart guy yet thats as dumb a post on a number of levels that i have read on this board. the people of ireland were asked seperate questions by 2, is that how it works for an overwhelming democratic majority? in republics?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 09:18:44 PM
It came from my point that FF are hardly putting much energy into Irish unity if they are encouraging Irish people to greet liz and fly little union jacks in Dublin. This discussion came about by comparing the Irish Republican credentials of SF and FF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 19, 2010, 09:54:08 PM
Incidentally, next month SF will host a full weekend conference in london at trade union congress on the theme of Irish unity. It will b addressed by british MPs, Trade union leaders, unionist MLAs, journalists, & a former london mayor for example. It aims to discuss what form a 32 county republic would take & to persuade unionists and people of influence in Britain of the advantages that a united Ireland would bring. I wonder what the other "republican" parties have planned for Feb to advance Irish unity?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 19, 2010, 09:56:14 PM
The only thing SF are engaging in is one big bluff.

There will be no united Ireland in any of our lifetimes
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mylestheslasher on January 19, 2010, 10:13:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2010, 06:33:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 08:47:19 PM
Sinn Feinare the only republican party in leinster house

FF( The Builders/Bankers Party) want a re United Independant Ireland,(without a monarchy) in accordance with the GFA when a majority of 6 Co voters want to end the current link with GB.
FG (once the big farmers and shopkeepers party) want  a re United Independant Ireland,(without a monarchy) in accordance with the GFA when a majority of 6 Co voters want to end the current link with GB.
Labour ( former Union officials party) want a re United Independant Ireland,(without a monarchy) in accordance with the GFA when a majority of 6 Co voters want to end the current link with GB.
Sinn Féin want .......... the same  ::)
So how are they the only republican party in the Dáil ?
I didnt  mention the Greens as they wont exist after 2012  ;D

Listen Rossfan, I am openly critical of SF on a number of points even though I was once a member but to suggest that FF, FG and the rest are republican parties or as republican as SF is a joke (For Hardy, I am using the term republican as the vast majority of people of this island use it, incorrectly, which states republican = united Ireland). All we get from FF, FG is some aspiration to have a united Ireland buried in the back pages of their constitution. What efforts have they ever made to reunite Ireland, to convince unionists of the merits of united ireland, they have no plan whatsoever, no green paper no nothing. At least SF have it at the top of their "to do" list. SF's problem is they have nothing of merit to say on anything else except bland rhetoric with no basis and until they come up with something of substance they will never dig any votes out of the critical middle classes with a left leaning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: camloughlad on January 20, 2010, 12:08:49 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: camloughlad on January 18, 2010, 09:27:20 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 09:17:55 PM
a lot of shinners walk around thinking the run the place, I'd love to see them taken down a peg or two
how do ya work that out
I'm not sure what you mean by that or what you're asking. 

Nally, I'm not talking about the areas of government, I'm talking about Sinn Fein activists at local level (not them all I have to say) going around thinking they own the place.  I wouldnt mind seeing them taking down a peg or two.
i love the way you say you would like to see them take down a peg or two your not man enough to do it yourself.wat areas would you be talking about
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 20, 2010, 12:12:53 AM
Quote from: camloughlad on January 20, 2010, 12:08:49 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: camloughlad on January 18, 2010, 09:27:20 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 09:17:55 PM
a lot of shinners walk around thinking the run the place, I'd love to see them taken down a peg or two
how do ya work that out
I'm not sure what you mean by that or what you're asking. 

Nally, I'm not talking about the areas of government, I'm talking about Sinn Fein activists at local level (not them all I have to say) going around thinking they own the place.  I wouldnt mind seeing them taking down a peg or two.
i love the way you say you would like to see them take down a peg or two your not man enough to do it yourself.wat areas would you be talking about
we could start in areas not a million miles from you.
Not man enough to do it myself? what do you want me to do?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on January 20, 2010, 10:14:08 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 19, 2010, 09:56:14 PM
The only thing SF are engaging in is one big bluff.

There will be no united Ireland in any of our lifetimes

You are now an honourary member of The SDLP. Congratulations  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 20, 2010, 10:48:45 AM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 19, 2010, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 07:53:10 PM
The people of Ireland have accepted her claim by overwhelming democratic majority, which is how it works in republics, so how would it be a token of republicanism to deny it?

now that is what i call bullshit of the highest order, your a smart guy yet thats as dumb a post on a number of levels that i have read on this board. the people of ireland were asked seperate questions by 2, is that how it works for an overwhelming democratic majority? in republics?

So please explain the situation to dumb old me, as I'm clearly incapable of grasping it.

The people of Ireland, North and South, voted overwhelmingly to accept the GFA, which enshrines partition and the constitutional position in the north, including the position of the British monarch, for as long as the people of the six counties want it to be so. How is this to be interpreted as a rejection of the claim of the British monarch to sovereignty over those who define themselves as British?

Simple question. If you have a formula that turns the GFA vote into a rejection of British rule in the North, I'd be interested to see how it works.

You mightn't like the decision we made and some SF people can even convince themselves that they didn't really mean it and haven't accepted partition and if they keep their fingers crossed behind their backs none of it is really happening. That's grand. Whatever works for you.

I'm only pointing out facts. If you dispute them, I look forward to discussing that with you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 20, 2010, 11:26:52 AM
A simple ( ;)) question for you Hardy: for every vote you've cast, have you been in total agreement with everything that that vote connotes, e.g., the whole manifesto?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 20, 2010, 11:33:18 AM
I don't understand the relevance of the question. To answer - of course not. But as a democrat and a republican I have accepted the outcome.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 20, 2010, 11:48:37 AM
Well, just because someone may have voted for the GFA doesn't necessarily mean that they're fully accepting of what it may represent, it (the GFA) just might have been the best of what was on offer at the time.

In the same way that you haven't been in full agreement with everything that your votes have brought about, it's prefectably reasonable that those republicans who voted for the GFA are not totally happy with everything that that enshrines in current, de facto, law. Your (implicit) assertion, however, that a vote in favour for the GFA was an explicit endorsement of the British queen's continued dominion in the north or of partition itself is disingenuous, at best. It's an inescapable side-effect, at this juncture, and no more than that for some.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 20, 2010, 12:26:14 PM
I agree with everything you say, FOSB, except your last two sentences. When you vote in a referendum, you don't get to say "I'm voting YES for this bit, but NO for that bit". It's yes or no and the outcome is taken in the round, whether you have reservations about bits of it or not.

So it's absurd to suggest that the outcome of the GFA referendum can't be taken as endorsement of the constitutional staus quo in the North until such time as the majority wish to change it. To illustrate: if it doesn't mean that, then how is the Irish Government, for instance, to determine what it DOES mean? And what mechanism would they use to arrive at the interpretation you suggest that the decision of the people excludes the recognition of Lizzie as head of state for Northern unionists?

So the referendium, contrary to what you say, is precisely an explicit endorsement of the British queen's continued ... and of partition.

We don't have to like it and we can work to change it, but in the meantime we do have to accept it if we're democrats.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 20, 2010, 01:11:52 PM
OK Hardy, we're about 50% in agreement, and may have to leave it at that.

To my mind, the GFA as a referendum was deficient at least one option, i.e., British withdrawal, but despite that I'll accept the result of that somewhat restricted referendum. And just because I may have voted to accept the GFA, that doesn't mean that I now ascribe any more legitimacy or validity to the British presence in Ireland than I ever did (zero); no more than I would have ascribed any legitimacy or validity to the British presence in Cork, Meath or elsewhere in the 26 pre-1922.

Regarding a 'Royal' visit to the 26 counties: for any 'republican' to meekly acquiesce to a visit south of the border by a Britsh monarch is a nonsense (IMHO). For two reasons: 1. A monarchy, any monarchy or monarch, is anaethema to anyone who'd call him or herself a republican 2. An Irish republican does not, by definition (i.e., the 1916 Proclamation), accept the legitimacy of the occupation of any part of Ireland by an alien power, least of all she who's considering darkening the Dublin doorstep.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 20, 2010, 02:05:59 PM
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it myself and I think it's funny that people would work themselves into a lather over a little ould one in a funny hat. I think it would be self-demeaning to appear to be cowering before the British monarchy by saying we don't want her coming here. We've had plenty of other monarchs visiting here and the sky didn't fall in. Treat her the same as any other head of state.

Otherwise, where do you stop? Brown can't come here for EU summits? Stop meetings of the British-Irish council? See how ludicrous it starts to get when people start getting caniptions at the sight of an ugly little granny.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on January 20, 2010, 02:47:25 PM
I agree with Hardy, the refusal to allow liz a wee dander up dame street stinks of token Irish republicanism to me. I won't be there to greet her but I won't lose sleep if she is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 20, 2010, 04:40:19 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 20, 2010, 10:48:45 AM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 19, 2010, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 07:53:10 PM
The people of Ireland have accepted her claim by overwhelming democratic majority, which is how it works in republics, so how would it be a token of republicanism to deny it?

now that is what i call bullshit of the highest order, your a smart guy yet thats as dumb a post on a number of levels that i have read on this board. the people of ireland were asked seperate questions by 2, is that how it works for an overwhelming democratic majority? in republics?

So please explain the situation to dumb old me, as I'm clearly incapable of grasping it.

The people of Ireland, North and South, voted overwhelmingly to accept the GFA, which enshrines partition and the constitutional position in the north, including the position of the British monarch, for as long as the people of the six counties want it to be so. How is this to be interpreted as a rejection of the claim of the British monarch to sovereignty over those who define themselves as British?

Simple question. If you have a formula that turns the GFA vote into a rejection of British rule in the North, I'd be interested to see how it works.

You mightn't like the decision we made and some SF people can even convince themselves that they didn't really mean it and haven't accepted partition and if they keep their fingers crossed behind their backs none of it is really happening. That's grand. Whatever works for you.

I'm only pointing out facts. If you dispute them, I look forward to discussing that with you.
people that I know of voted to try to end fighting etc and saw the GFA and referrendum as a means to expedite the re-unification of Ireland. as the partition wasnt going to be touched and articles 2 and 3 in the constitution meant nothing in reality - we were all happy to vote in the positive fashion - with only the headcases voting no (but they had their own reasons obv).
while some people try to pretend that GFA has meant the partition will forever remain, we all realise that the only things stopping re-unification are the majority vote wishing for this (I'd say north AND south). Then finally the whole question of economics - that includes not only the capacity for our Gov to asimilate the 6 counties back, but the wages of the people, the health service, the dole and social benefits etc all need to be resolved - and this takes a big wad of cash. Some of which will be gained from Brit gov, but we need a prosperous local econemy before this is viable !
apart from that britain would hand it back in the morning !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 20, 2010, 04:41:20 PM
btw  - the poor oul queen has done nothing wrong or bad - shes just a figurehead.
Let her visit, its daft begrudgery to oppose this !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 20, 2010, 06:56:43 PM
No worries lads, sure I'll organise little union jacks for you all to wave at the supreme symbol of empire, Frau Windsor, as she perambulates up and down O'Connell St, just like the Dubs did with her predecessor Victoria in 1900  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 20, 2010, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 20, 2010, 01:11:52 PM
To my mind, the GFA as a referendum was deficient at least one option, i.e., British withdrawal, but despite that I'll accept the result of that somewhat restricted referendum. And just because I may have voted to accept the GFA, that doesn't mean that I now ascribe any more legitimacy or validity to the British presence in Ireland than I ever did (zero); no more than I would have ascribed any legitimacy or validity to the British presence in Cork, Meath or elsewhere in the 26 pre-1922.

Regarding a 'Royal' visit to the 26 counties: for any 'republican' to meekly acquiesce to a visit south of the border by a Britsh monarch is a nonsense (IMHO). For two reasons: 1. A monarchy, any monarchy or monarch, is anaethema to anyone who'd call him or herself a republican 2. An Irish republican does not, by definition (i.e., the 1916 Proclamation), accept the legitimacy of the occupation of any part of Ireland by an alien power, least of all she who's considering darkening the Dublin doorstep.
FoSB, you are a smart man in my estimations.  That's why I don't understand how you can say this about the GFA, it was what it was, simply a referendum on the agreement the politicians came to that Good Friday.  Neither British withdrawal nor a united Ireland was on the cards yet the GFA is now being implemented, slowly but surely.  There was pain and there was gain on all sides while the bigger issues were fogged over... and so it will remain for the forseeable future.  I can't see dissidents being a threat to the established and flawed administration at Stormont.  I too would like a united Ireland, I don't know about a 32 county socialist republic though.  I don't think it's achievable and even if it was, how would it survive on the edge of western Europe isolated on its own? 

Republicans need to come to terms with the modern age, new thinking is needed as global Capitalism is the only show in town as far as economic realities go.  That doesn't mean I am a right-winger, I certainly am not, I am just being realistic about political and economic issues.  British withdrawal, I assume you mean soldiers yet this terminology alienates many unionists who see themselves as the British presence in Ireland.  Wasn't it Connolly who said that you could remove the English flag from Dublin Castle but if you left the same economic systems in place that Britain would still control us through the same institutions? :)

And seriously, Hardy is right, a visit from the British Queen to any part of the island should be allowed to go ahead unhindered.  Who cares about her from the nationalist community? 
Not too many nationalists have turned out for her visits in the north.  It would be interesting to see how many people would turn out to see her in the south  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 20, 2010, 07:03:52 PM
The only thing the GFA referendum demonstrates is that people preferred the GFA to more violence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 20, 2010, 07:36:21 PM
Firstly Hardy, while a few somehow agree that she should b allowed to visit (on invitation from FF) you have once again come out with a claim that makes the mind boggle. How would not inviting her be self-demeaning but spending tax payers money (however little) and having people wave little union jacks and bowing before this little old woman not self-demeaning? And Lynchbhoy, if she has done nothing wrong, does this mean her honouring of the individual bloody sunday soldiers was right?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 20, 2010, 07:38:14 PM
Flattery will get you nowhere ardmhachaabu  ;)

I was merely demonstrating with that (British withdrawal) remark that the GFA referendum was nothing like exhaustive and therefore no definitive conclusions could be fairly drawn from a vote one way or the other in it. That's not to say that I don't consider a reunited Ireland a plausible, feasible and legitimate aspiration, but I'm aware of the mechanics and realities that currently prevail.

I'm not convinced about 'Global Capitalism' being the only show in town: it hasn't exactly covered itself (or anything else, apart from the very few) in glory over the last few years, and who's to say that there isn't another cataclysmic capitalistic catastrophe around the corner, only this time where there won't be enough money left in the public purses to prevent financial meltdown? What then for 'Global Capitalism'?

And it doesn't matter what cuddly and innocuous words (like 'little', or 'oul', etc.) are bandied about concerning Mrs Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, she's still a supreme (hostile) power  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: magickingdom on January 20, 2010, 07:44:32 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 20, 2010, 10:48:45 AM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 19, 2010, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 07:53:10 PM
The people of Ireland have accepted her claim by overwhelming democratic majority, which is how it works in republics, so how would it be a token of republicanism to deny it?

now that is what i call bullshit of the highest order, your a smart guy yet thats as dumb a post on a number of levels that i have read on this board. the people of ireland were asked seperate questions by 2, is that how it works for an overwhelming democratic majority? in republics?

So please explain the situation to dumb old me, as I'm clearly incapable of grasping it.

The people of Ireland, North and South, voted overwhelmingly to accept the GFA, which enshrines partition and the constitutional position in the north, including the position of the British monarch, for as long as the people of the six counties want it to be so. How is this to be interpreted as a rejection of the claim of the British monarch to sovereignty over those who define themselves as British?

Simple question. If you have a formula that turns the GFA vote into a rejection of British rule in the North, I'd be interested to see how it works.

You mightn't like the decision we made and some SF people can even convince themselves that they didn't really mean it and haven't accepted partition and if they keep their fingers crossed behind their backs none of it is really happening. That's grand. Whatever works for you.

I'm only pointing out facts. If you dispute them, I look forward to discussing that with you.

re read your original post that i rejected, it never happened. i note in your second post you say the people of ireland north and south, which is of course two different referenda and a complete different outcome to what you said. i voted for the gfa and have never voted sf so not quite sure what you mean by whatever works for you. i would have no bother with the queen coming here either. your only pointing out facts??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 20, 2010, 08:05:39 PM
FoSB, I accept the GFA wasn't exhaustive but to be fair about it, it could never have covered the bigger issues.  It will take 50 years before they appear on any table and even at that, they are likely to be fudged again even then

I know what you are saying about global Capitalism too and in many ways, that's how capitalism as an economic system works.  There will always be peaks and troughs.   I would be the first to say it's not the most equitable system and that ideally, we could look for somethng else to counter it succesfully and also bring us through a smooth transition but reality bites.  I can't see how anything else could work, I think capitalism is engrained in the world today and that most societies in the world are geared around it.  I am not sure if anything else could ever overtake it globally at this stage in the game

Mrs Saxe-Coburg-Gotha  :D

Never let it be forgotten either!  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 20, 2010, 08:14:28 PM
Sorry, magickingdom, I don't understand any of that. You seem to be angry with me. I don't know why. If you have a problem with something I said or if you want me to clarify any point I made, let me know what it is and I'll do what I can.

Nally Stand, you're being a bit melodramatic about the potential awful consequences of a visit by the queen of the UK, should it ever happen. Who would be bowing to her? Why would anyone in this republic do that? Who would be waving union jacks? Why would anyone in this republic do that? For one thing, I'm pretty sure no politician in this republic would be so politically naive as to provide such a photo opportunity.

If it's ordinary people bowing or waving you're worried about, don't be fretting. I don't think it would happen. But, even if it did, what business of yours or mine would it be? It's a free country and if that was the worst consequence of a visit by the British head of state, I'm sure we'd all get over it in no time.

By the way, our president has visited the queen of the UK. Do you disapprove? (For the record, she didn't bow and no union jack waving took place).

Finally, if you have the time, what is your threshold of tolerance on official contacts, links and meetings between representatives of this country and the UK (our partners in the EU)? Where do you draw the line?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 20, 2010, 08:30:47 PM
It may not have been a republic in 1916 when half of Dublin flew the union jack in response to the Rising - the flags still flew. You haven't answered my question as to how a tax payer funded reception for her would be more self-demeaning than not inviting her? And your the first Irish "republican" ive heard say Ireland is a free country. Not yet hardy. Maybe when it is I would b happier for a british monarch to walk around dublin. As for contacts with the Uk, if it is of tangible benefit, i'm all for it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 20, 2010, 08:33:54 PM
P.S. As for your photo op remark. If they aren't foolish enough to provide such an opportunity and be seen as ass licking, how come they still happily fill news column inches to talk about how big an honour it would be to have this lovely little woman visit us?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 20, 2010, 08:46:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 20, 2010, 08:30:47 PM
You haven't answered my question as to how a tax payer funded reception for her would be more self-demeaning than not inviting her?

Sorry, I didn't know you meant it as a serious question. Don't you see that we would be
demeaning ourselves if we were perceived to be so cringing and cowering that our policy on relations with fellow member states of the EU can be dictated by our terror of a monarch. We are a sovereign republic. We've hosted heads of state from all corners of the world, looked them in the eye and treated them with official courtesy and hospitality. Likewise the queen of the UK has visited all sorts of countries. Do you want us to be the only one in the world to fear we'd be unable  to cope with a visit from that little woman? Are you seriously proposing this as an element of our foreign policy?

Quote
And your the first Irish "republican" ive heard say Ireland is a free country. Not yet hardy.

Jesus! What's happened? Have we been enslaved again behind our backs? In what way are you unfree? What freedoms are you denied and who is denying them? We can't have that and we'll sort it out pretty quick if you let us know.

Quote
P.S. As for your photo op remark. If they aren't foolish enough to provide such an opportunity and be seen as ass licking, how come they still happily fill news column inches to talk about how big an honour it would be to have this lovely little woman visit us?

Who said that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 20, 2010, 09:40:56 PM
It's possible to answer without being continually smug and sarcastic. And i never said we couldn't cope i said it wouldn't b appropriate. You're an awful man for putting words in my mouth. As for freedom i don't regard a partitioned Ireland as a free Ireland. Something I will never apologise for. As for what freedoms how about the freedom to have my taxes paid to the Irish Government, freedom to vote for Irish presidents, freedom from the fear of british gov and her majestys forces collusion should the..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 20, 2010, 09:48:26 PM
..Peace process fall apart. I could go on. And comparing her to other head of states to have visited is a bit pointless. None of ever claimed to reign over Irish people. And they also are not part of a sectarian charter. Last year a canadian girl was forced to change from her Catholic faith so she could marry into the extended british royal family.  As for who spoke about the honour it would be try bertie& dermot ahern (whom the "republican party" call their foreign minister in dealings with the 6 counties)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 20, 2010, 11:10:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 20, 2010, 02:05:59 PM
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it myself and I think it's funny that people would work themselves into a lather over a little ould one in a funny hat. I think it would be self-demeaning to appear to be cowering before the British monarchy by saying we don't want her coming here. We've had plenty of other monarchs visiting here and the sky didn't fall in. Treat her the same as any other head of state.

Otherwise, where do you stop? Brown can't come here for EU summits? Stop meetings of the British-Irish council? See how ludicrous it starts to get when people start getting caniptions at the sight of an ugly little granny.

Now I see why this thread has reached six pages. You are debating two different things.

References to little old granny's and funny hats are at odds references to unapologetic Morarchs and leaders of a colonial power. One of which many Irish people are victims.

It's like Hardy saying it's only a little red button what harm can it possible do? While FOS is saying it's a nuclear warhead and pressing the button will release it only for hardy to follow up by pointing out that he doesn't lose sleep of little red buttons.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 20, 2010, 11:45:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 20, 2010, 07:36:21 PM
And Lynchbhoy, if she has done nothing wrong, does this mean her honouring of the individual bloody sunday soldiers was right?
come off it - it's not as if she hand picks those out to receive awards !!
It's all done for her ... Shed 'honour'  Fred west if they paraded him up in front of her for a knighthood!
We waste taxpayers money on hosting bigger Idiots than the queen so she's not unique there and
I don't recall her doing much against us !!
She's a politically powerless figurehead ! Fecks sake man !!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 21, 2010, 12:01:45 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 20, 2010, 11:45:27 PM
She's a politically powerless figurehead ! Fecks sake man !!

Maybe as a person but as a figure i'm not so sure. It wasn't that long ago the Iconic figure of the queen was used to bring the north the the verge of civil war with marches across the north in particular the Garvaghey Rd.

If she wants to come to Ireland with a camera and a street map she's more than welcome. I wouldn't protest against a visit from her in office but I wouldn't agree with it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 12:33:54 AM
Well lynchbhoy do you reckon the families of those killed feel the same? She remains the figurehead and symbol of a government which has caused so much pain in this country which has left many people still feeling a very raw hurt today.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 21, 2010, 10:04:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 12:33:54 AM
Well lynchbhoy do you reckon the families of those killed feel the same? She remains the figurehead and symbol of a government which has caused so much pain in this country which has left many people still feeling a very raw hurt today.
I cant speak for those other families but I couldnt see why they wouldnt.
Obv you disagree so I suspect I am still in the minority - but the queen while a figurehead, was not the cause of any problems. She would hardly have been aware of what was going on outside her palace gates among the commoners !!

I would say to you (and Zap) that in this day and age, an ever increasing amount of people are against a monarchy in England - that a lot of people ridicule and laugh at the royal family. The queen is becomming a bit of a joke - with recessionary times etc and I dont believe its a huge coincidence that the royal family have been out of the papers for most of the downturn !
So having her lauded by loyalists/unionists would be somewhat amusing given her perception/standing in England/Scotland and wales !

As we are on the road to re-unification, people must get over what was once part and parcel of the landscape.
The queen is no longer a rallying figure for the unionist/loyalists- but a near comic token figurehead, the sash is an anthem of a dying statelet with a nice tune - nothing more.

We no longer have to worry about our way of life under the apartheid type regieme any more - lets try to move on as we will have to all integrate in the not too distant future under the one Irish flag!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trevor Hill on January 21, 2010, 10:45:32 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 12:33:54 AM
Well lynchbhoy do you reckon the families of those killed feel the same? She remains the figurehead and symbol of a government which has caused so much pain in this country which has left many people still feeling a very raw hurt today.

Thankfully most of us have been able to leave the past where it belongs. I doubt you would remember much of the troubles, you dont seem that old.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 10:58:16 AM
Firstly, Trevor if you don't agree with my arguments, how about discussing them rather than patronisingly accusing me of being to young to know what i'm talking about? I remember far too much of the troubles and my own family and neighbours have been affected directly in ways i won't be going into on this board. And Lynchbhoy, can't you accept that whether you think it is understandable or not, many people have valid reasons to feel uncomfortable at such a visit?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trevor Hill on January 21, 2010, 11:08:41 AM
Not meant to be patronising, but you come across as a 14 year old with a chip on his shoulder. Maybe if you could actually come up with a reason against a visit by the Queen, instead of just complaining about the past. The troubles had an effect on us all, but thankfully most of us aren't stuck in a timewarp. We often accuse our protestant neighbours of living in the late seventeenth century, that 1690 to you, when in fact some of our nationalist friends still think its 1916/1969 (delete as appropriate). I am sure the Queen is all to aware of what went on in this country, much of it in her name, but thankfully she is able to put the past behind her. If she wants to come to Ireland on a visit then Ireland should be mature enough to welcome her and remember she is your head of state, wether you like it or not.
If like many in this country you chose to live in the past then you should remember people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on January 21, 2010, 11:28:07 AM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 21, 2010, 11:08:41 AM
Not meant to be patronising, but you come across as a 14 year old with a chip on his shoulder. Maybe if you could actually come up with a reason against a visit by the Queen, instead of just complaining about the past. The troubles had an effect on us all, but thankfully most of us aren't stuck in a timewarp. We often accuse our protestant neighbours of living in the late seventeenth century, that 1690 to you, when in fact some of our nationalist friends still think its 1916/1969 (delete as appropriate). I am sure the Queen is all to aware of what went on in this country, much of it in her name, but thankfully she is able to put the past behind her. If she wants to come to Ireland on a visit then Ireland should be mature enough to welcome her and remember she is your head of state, wether you like it or not.
If like many in this country you chose to live in the past then you should remember people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

You make sure and get your butchers apron nicely washed and ironed for that day anyway  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 11:31:42 AM
I think i'm wasting my time debating this with you and have no intention of continuing to do so. There's no point in telling me you're not being patronising but then proceeding to tell me I sound 14 years old and then inform unintelligent little old (i mean young) me what your "seventeenth century" reference meant. There's a real arrogance about someone who feels that anyone who disagrees with him clearly is too young to understand.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 21, 2010, 11:48:12 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 10:58:16 AM
Firstly, Trevor if you don't agree with my arguments, how about discussing them rather than patronisingly accusing me of being to young to know what i'm talking about? I remember far too much of the troubles and my own family and neighbours have been affected directly in ways i won't be going into on this board. And Lynchbhoy, can't you accept that whether you think it is understandable or not, many people have valid reasons to feel uncomfortable at such a visit?
thats why I said that I reckoned that I am prob in the minority with my views on this ...

my own family have had plenty to look back on and moan about, but we can do nothing about what has happened. W e wont get any enquiry or retribution, so that phase is over and we are moving on - and most others in time will also.
Time is a great healer as the old cliche goes, and as unionism, loyalism and opponents to a re-unification will find out (though most already know) - money is a great healer too !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 11:58:37 AM
I agree that time is a great healer. I just feel that this time has not passed but hopefully by the time Ireland is freed, time will have passed and a visit by a british monarch would be more appropriate. For now, such a visit would only drum up a bitterness and division which would far outweigh any good which would come from it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 21, 2010, 12:04:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 11:58:37 AM
I agree that time is a great healer. I just feel that this time has not passed but hopefully by the time Ireland is freed, time will have passed and a visit by a british monarch would be more appropriate. For now, such a visit would only drum up a bitterness and division which would far outweigh any good which would come from it.

Well it seems you'll be doing your best to see that it does anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 12:14:22 PM
No hardy. I can only speak for myself and would make a safe guess that i'm not alone. You nor nobody else has the right to tell me or anyone else how I/they should feel about a potential visit, we can only debate it's virtues or lack there of. If such a visit took place I can only speak for myself in saying I would simply boycott it. Others will fight over it and the discussion on this board will be a lot more courteous than the tensions a visit would bring for many people. Anyway i mentioned this royal...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 21, 2010, 12:20:13 PM
..visit as an example of FF "republicanism" which came out of the original discussion of the thread. I.E. the electoral fortunes of SF. The royal visit topic i brought up was pounced upon by many here but i think nothing new is being said. Time to get back to the actual point of the thread me thinks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 22, 2010, 02:56:20 PM
Seems like SF have walked away from Stormont after the talks broke down without agreement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 22, 2010, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 22, 2010, 02:56:20 PM
Seems like SF have walked away from Stormont after the talks broke down without agreement.

Not before time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on January 22, 2010, 03:39:06 PM
Let the games begin!

Quotealks between the DUP and Sinn Fein on the devolution of policing and justice powers are over, Sinn Fein have said.

Alex Maskey confirmed that the current round of negotiations had ended. He said the party's meeting in Dublin on Saturday would map the way forward.

However, Mr Maskey added:"Our door remains open."

"They (SF) will decide whether to take the nuclear option of pulling Martin McGuinness out of the coalition," said BBC NI political editor Mark Devenport.

Mr Maskey pointed out that his party leadership had informed the DUP of its decision on Wednesday night.

He was responding to Acting First Minister Arlene Foster who said her party's negotiators had waited at Stormont on Thursday and had no-one to negotiate with.

The DUP and Sinn Fein have been engaged in a war of words on how to progress on transferring the powers to Belfast.

In his blog for the Belfast Media Group, Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams said the "game was up, but not over".

"The failure of the DUP thus far to come up to the plate during the current round of negotiations shouldn't come as any great surprise," he said.

"They want the scrapping of the Parades Commission and progress on the ground - in other words marches through Catholic areas."

He accused the DUP of "looking over their shoulder" at hardline unionist Jim Allister whose TUV party opposes powersharing with Sinn Fein.

It is understood the latest round of discussions concluded on Wednesday.

Mr Maskey said: "There was no question, let me be very clear, Peter Robinson was under no illusion. There was no question of any talks between both of our parties scheduled for yesterday or, indeed, today."

Alliance Party leader David Ford said politicians needed to "grow up and reach an accommodation".

He said there was an urgent need for all parties to work together and that the political process was "sliding towards a crisis".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 22, 2010, 03:50:27 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 22, 2010, 03:39:06 PM
Let the games begin!

Quote

However, Mr Maskey added:"Our door remains open."


I think it would be a mistake to allow the door to stay open after today. If it does it will look like the DUP are the ones calling the shots. SF need to decide and they need to decide now. The complete failure of London and Dublin is clear. Brown has no bargining power and Cowen couldn't give a f**k.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 22, 2010, 03:54:34 PM
RTÉ haven't heard about this yet - at least not up to 3:30 Nuacht.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 22, 2010, 03:58:50 PM
I love the BBC one. Picture of McGuinness with the caption under 'Martin McGuinness could be removed from Stromont' :D

He should walk from Stormont and remove the rest of them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 22, 2010, 05:36:26 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on January 22, 2010, 03:50:27 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 22, 2010, 03:39:06 PM
Let the games begin!

Quote

However, Mr Maskey added:"Our door remains open."


I think it would be a mistake to allow the door to stay open after today. If it does it will look like the DUP are the ones calling the shots. SF need to decide and they need to decide now. The complete failure of London and Dublin is clear. Brown has no bargining power and Cowen couldn't give a f**k.


Let the mind games begin more like !!!


Does anybody really care at this stage ??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 22, 2010, 09:32:26 PM
With the Iris carry on putting pressure on the DUP from one side, and the TUV from the other, the DUP will be sh1tting a brick at the thought of fresh assembly elections should McGuinness walk. Why else would they suddenly be OK with a voting pact with the UUP? SF have the DUP over a barrel here, if SF quitting the negotiations now doesn't make the DUP take the threat to collapse the assembly seriously, perhaps SF should now call their bluff and collapse it. SF would clean up in fresh elections anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 22, 2010, 09:37:50 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 22, 2010, 09:32:26 PM
With the Iris carry on putting pressure on the DUP from one side, and the TUV from the other, the DUP will be sh1tting a brick at the thought of fresh assembly elections should McGuinness walk. Why else would they suddenly be OK with a voting pact with the UUP? SF have the DUP over a barrel here, if SF quitting the negotiations now doesn't make the DUP take the threat to collapse the assembly seriously, perhaps SF should now call their bluff and collapse it. SF would clean up in fresh elections anyway.
Do you mean that partitionist assembly at Stormont?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 22, 2010, 09:56:40 PM
No other one. What do you think? Or do you mean to say SF should sit in the 32 county assembly? It doesn't exist yet so the best they can do is have representatives in the north and south to advance unity. If you have nothing constructive to debate about my post or related posts I'll not waste my time rerunning older arguments from the thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 22, 2010, 10:04:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 22, 2010, 09:56:40 PM
No other one. What do you think? Or do you mean to say SF should sit in the 32 county assembly? It doesn't exist yet so the best they can do is have representatives in the north and south to advance unity. If you have nothing constructive to debate about my post or related posts I'll not waste my time rerunning older arguments from the thread.
I am sure you won't, it hasn't done you much good so far

You have contradicted yourself in this thread, IMO, you are too blinkered to even see that much.  Take the SF blinkers off and have a look at the world around you.  I have given constructive arguments as to why SF are full of sh!t about Irish unity.  You have given the usual SF response and stuck your head in the sand and ignored it

You can't have it both ways, they are either a republican party or a partitionist one - the fact they are sitting in both partitionist parliaments would indicate they now accept partition

In any case, I am done playing with you.  SF lackeys are just no fun these days
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 22, 2010, 10:16:02 PM
You may be done "playing" but at least answer me this in response to your last post. If sitting in both parliaments is partitionist, is it not more partitionist to sit in just one and feel that the other has nothing to do with you (eg. every other party in Ireland)? Or is it that you feel they should sit in neither in order to not be partitionist and if that is the case, what method would they then use to advance the cause of unity?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 23, 2010, 08:27:00 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 22, 2010, 10:04:07 PM

You can't have it both ways, they are either a republican party or a partitionist one - the fact they are sitting in both partitionist parliaments would indicate they now accept partition

That's a very lazy effort. Can you elaborate?

I'd say SF do accpet partition. I'd actually hope so. Last time I checked the country was partitioned and I'd like to think they noticed it. I'd also say they don't agree to it and are actively trying to unite the country. It would be a little silly to try to unite something if you don't accept it is partitioned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 09:16:17 AM
Agree 100% zap. Just hope ardmhacha can honour us with a serious reply to my above questions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 23, 2010, 10:04:06 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 22, 2010, 10:16:02 PM
Or is it that you feel they should sit in neither in order to not be partitionist...
Was that not SF policy until relatively recently? Not that i'm saying it was right.

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 22, 2010, 10:16:02 PM
...and if that is the case, what method would they then use to advance the cause of unity?
Well i'd imagine the majority prefer the current peaceful political means, as the majority always did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 23, 2010, 10:18:54 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 23, 2010, 10:04:06 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 22, 2010, 10:16:02 PM
Or is it that you feel they should sit in neither in order to not be partitionist...
Was that not SF policy until relatively recently? Not that i'm saying it was right.



There was no assembley to take a seat in untill relatively recently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 23, 2010, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on January 23, 2010, 10:18:54 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 23, 2010, 10:04:06 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 22, 2010, 10:16:02 PM
Or is it that you feel they should sit in neither in order to not be partitionist...
Was that not SF policy until relatively recently? Not that i'm saying it was right.

There was no assembley to take a seat in untill relatively recently.
I was referring primarily to their policy change re Dáil Éireann in 1986. (But didn't their abstentionist policy extend to the old NI Parliament?) Presumably the basis for this abstentionism was that sitting in these would have been partitionist?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 10:43:26 AM
Firstly 1986, in context of the instability, was not recent. And secondly, your point re. current political means is irrelevant. I asked what method Sinn Fein should use if their current path, according to ardmhaca, is wrong. Sinn Fein ARE trying to achieve a united Ireland by peaceful means. And obviously it's what the majority always wanted. That however does not mean it was always realistically possible, as it now is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 23, 2010, 11:04:29 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 10:43:26 AM
Firstly 1986, in context of the instability, was not recent.
But how was the policy of abstentionism appropriate in 1985 and not in 1986? Was 1986 that much more stable that 1985?


Basically i'm in agreement with you on two main points. Sinn Fein should sit in both the Dáil and the Assembly. And the aspiration for a United Ireland should by advanced by exclusively peaceful and political means.

The point is that some of us had worked that out a very long time ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 23, 2010, 11:08:36 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 23, 2010, 10:35:18 AM
I was referring primarily to their policy change re Dáil Éireann in 1986. (But didn't their abstentionist policy extend to the old NI Parliament?) Presumably the basis for this abstentionism was that sitting in these would have been partitionist?

That's 25 years ago. Yes that was their policy. I wouldn't really have considered them as a political party back then though. Their candidates were usually prisoners who couldn't take seats anyway such as Bobby Sands MP and Kieran Doherty TD. I think their basis was that they didn't recognise either as legitimate (maybe they still don't?) Rather than them being partitionist they believed the IRA were the legitimate Government of Ireland. None of it is relevant though as SF weren't a political party then they were just spokespersons and support groups for the IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on January 23, 2010, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on January 23, 2010, 08:27:00 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 22, 2010, 10:04:07 PM

You can't have it both ways, they are either a republican party or a partitionist one - the fact they are sitting in both partitionist parliaments would indicate they now accept partition

That's a very lazy effort. Can you elaborate?

I'd say SF do accpet partition. I'd actually hope so. Last time I checked the country was partitioned and I'd like to think they noticed it. I'd also say they don't agree to it and are actively trying to unite the country. It would be a little silly to try to unite something if you don't accept it is partitioned.
I remember the Shinners using exactly the same language about partitionist parliaments in the 80's and even early 90s.  It shows how much they have changed that they are now sitting in what is a partitionist parliament, they said they would never do that.  No return to Stormont and all that. 

If you look at it objectively, they have deviated so far from their initial political objectives.  Calling for re-unification, holding meetings to talk about it etc are all very good but it's merely a smokescreen.  They know they can't deliver on a united Ireland and what's more is people in the south look at SF and see that as their only real policy on anything.  They are floundering in politics in the south because they don't have a support base to call on like they do in the north and also because they gloss over the big issues when it comes down to local politics.  People in the south and a growing number of people in the north don't care about unification.  They worry more about putting food on the table and other mundane issues.  Incidentally Zap, I am not against them being in the Dail or Stormont, I think it's practical politics to be involved. 

As an afterthought, I wonder how long it will be until they are nobodies, just like Workers Party/Democratic Left whom they called a partitionist party at the time
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 11:28:35 AM
1985 and '86 were both reactions to the events of the day. The IRA statement on the canary wharf bomb in '96 referred to how it believed there was a chance in 1994, when it declared permanent ceasefire, for the peace process to begin in earnest. The british government's unwillingness to take it seriously resulted in canary wharf. Clearly as far back as 1986 SF saw potential for a peace process that required they take their seats. History shows that this was almost ten years before britain took it seriously.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 11:33:35 AM
Oh and ardmhaca, I'm still waiting on a reply to my specific questions to you based on your post I replied with them to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 23, 2010, 11:48:16 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 23, 2010, 11:28:33 AM
I remember the Shinners using exactly the same language about partitionist parliaments in the 80's and even early 90s.  It shows how much they have changed that they are now sitting in what is a partitionist parliament, they said they would never do that.  No return to Stormont and all that. 

If you look at it objectively, they have deviated so far from their initial political objectives.  Calling for re-unification, holding meetings to talk about it etc are all very good but it's merely a smokescreen.  They know they can't deliver on a united Ireland and what's more is people in the south look at SF and see that as their only real policy on anything.  They are floundering in politics in the south because they don't have a support base to call on like they do in the north and also because they gloss over the big issues when it comes down to local politics.  People in the south and a growing number of people in the north don't care about unification.  They worry more about putting food on the table and other mundane issues.  Incidentally Zap, I am not against them being in the Dail or Stormont, I think it's practical politics to be involved. 

As an afterthought, I wonder how long it will be until they are nobodies, just like Workers Party/Democratic Left whom they called a partitionist party at the time

I agree that they have done a U-turn on their position re stormont but I honestly don't think the initial policy derived from a politial party. It was an army policy. SF were nobody back then and were considered as a nessasary evil by the IRA. I don't think you can compare SF from the 70s and 80s to SF now anymore than you can compare FF or FG to respective sides and policy during the civil war.

I suppose SF can't win either way if the UI thing is only a smokescreen while voters in the South see the UI thing as SF's only issue. That may be why they are floundering in the south maybe they should just drop the smokescreen. I think the reason they are not successfull in the south is due the lack of a support base and their political opponents are far to powerfull. Electoral politics in the north is relatively new compared to the south. The SF brand has been in the north from the the time catholics started to become politically active in the late 60s early 70s while they have only been relevant to the south since the 80s which is a long time after the other major parties. The are playing catch up. Time will tell if they can do it or not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 12:20:35 PM
I have to agree that serious work needs to be done in the south and the first step is getting someone young and intelligent to take leadership in the 26 counties, eg Pearse Doherty. On the smokescreen notion however i completely disagree. Those opposed to SF used to accuse it of not working for a UI via peaceful means. When SF become central to bringing peace and developed a peaceful strategy for a UI it is the same people who now accuse them of not being interested in a UI. It's always been priority no. 1
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 23, 2010, 01:04:44 PM
Tough on the poor ould shinners, ain't it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 01:20:28 PM
To quote the Guinness Hurling ad's of old, "Nobody said it was going to be easy." Certainly not as easy as standing on the outside and criticise while not feeling the need to offer any ideas on alternative paths to Irish Unity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trevor Hill on January 23, 2010, 03:16:32 PM
Sinn Fein are always going to do well in the North, where politics is nothing more than a sectarian head count. Lets be honest, neither Sinn Fein nor the DUP are blessed when it comes to brains or political strategy, but they show us and more importantly the rest of the world where the people of NI are at politically. We may have stopped killing each other, but we are still as entrenched as ever and as a result we have moved away from the moderate SDLP and Ulster Unionists to the political hardliners.
Its slightly different in the South. Policies matter, jobs and the economy are important and this is where Sinn Fein fall short, especially when they let Gerry Adams speak. Adams is out of his depth when you take him away from West Belfast and is a liability for Sinn Fein in the South. But Sinn Fein will not accept this, because Gerry wont accept it. Gerry is Sinn Fein. Until Sinn Fein wake up to themselves and to Gerry then they are going to be in serious decline in the South. They need a younger leadership, they failed with Mary Lou, all that money wasted, but they cannot attract the calibre of candidate that they need because they will not tolerate individuals, they do not want ambitious people. They want sheep.
Sinn Fein will continue to attract voters of our generation in border areas in the South, people in Louth, Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal who remember "The Troubles", but the younger generations simply aren't interested in old men and their war stories. They are losing a lot of ground in Dublin at a time when they should be able to make gains. The South is leaderless, Cowen and FF hanging on until the next election when they should be punished for their handling of the economy and the banking crisis, but Sinn Fein simply don't know what to do and don't have anyone to do it for them. They are safer in the "Union".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longrunsthefox on January 23, 2010, 03:21:26 PM
Forrest Gump (1994) - Memorable quotes.... he ran and ran and ran and one day stopped and said, 'I'm pretty tired... I think I'll go home now. ...' 
ditto this debate
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 23, 2010, 08:58:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 01:20:28 PM
To quote the Guinness Hurling ad's of old, "Nobody said it was going to be easy." Certainly not as easy as standing on the outside and criticise while not feeling the need to offer any ideas on alternative paths to Irish Unity.
What alternative paths? What exactly are these ideas that SF is offering us?
And have we not all (including SF) agreed the way forward through the Good Friday Agreement (i.e. nothing is changing re a United Ireland until the majority in the 6 counties want it)?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 10:11:43 PM
You ask "What alternative path?" That is exactly my point. People who are most vocal in opposition to SF's current strategy for unity don't seem to be forthcoming with an alternative idea. And the current path is not, as you suggest, SF giving up. The IRA knew they couldn't defeat britain, they could only aim to force them to the table. That is why we are where we are. SF have now endorsed a strategy where a UI can be achieved peacefully through dismantling the traditional state barriers to it, eg the...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 10:16:58 PM
RUC, brit army presence, a Protestant parliament for a Protestant people. They are now in a process of building community relations and are the only party with a unionist outreach branch, which aims to build trust and persuade moderate unionists that a UI is in fact nothing to fear. So I ask you in turn, if you feel that strategy is wrong...what is an alternative one?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 24, 2010, 01:41:51 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 21, 2010, 11:08:41 AM
...If she wants to come to Ireland on a visit then Ireland should be mature enough to welcome her and remember she is your head of state, wether you like it or not.

Sorry, just getting around to digesting this tripe now  ;)

You may have a crown on your passport, but I most certainly don't, so the chances of the great accident of birth ever being invoked as my 'head of state' are something lower than zero.

Talking about living in the past -- it seems tergiversating toadery of centuries past is alive and well today!  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 02:44:59 PM
Unless the border has been redrawn overnight then Strabane or Srath Ban if you wish is also in the UK, which would mean that the Queen is also your head of state. You may not want to accept that, but until the people of NI vote in favour of a  united Ireland then that is the reality of the situation that we all find ourselves in. Ulster is still legally British and has been as long as any of us have been alive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SuperMac on January 24, 2010, 06:33:22 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 02:44:59 PM
Ulster is still legally British and has been as long as any of us have been alive.
Six of Ulster's counties are unfortunately under british occupation, so Ulster is not british  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 24, 2010, 06:39:24 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 02:44:59 PM
Unless the border has been redrawn overnight then Strabane or Srath Ban if you wish is also in the UK, which would mean that the Queen is also your head of state. You may not want to accept that, but until the people of NI vote in favour of a  united Ireland then that is the reality of the situation that we all find ourselves in. Ulster is still legally British and has been as long as any of us have been alive.
That's like something you'd hear from the DUP
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 06:44:38 PM
It is sadly the truth. Many of us may not like it, myself included, but the 6 counties remain British and will do so for the forseable future. Anyone who thinks anything different is living in cloud cuckcoo land.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SuperMac on January 24, 2010, 06:44:56 PM
On an all Ireland basis SF would be the third largest party in the country, how could that be saying they are on the verge of becoming obsolete.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SuperMac on January 24, 2010, 06:48:06 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 06:44:38 PM
It is sadly the truth. Many of us may not like it, myself included, but the 6 counties remain British and will do so for the forseable future. Anyone who thinks anything different is living in cloud cuckcoo land.
So the nationalist population is not going to keep increasing but inexplicablly come to a halt ? Your living in cloud cuckoo land.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 24, 2010, 06:50:04 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 06:44:38 PM
It is sadly the truth. Many of us may not like it, myself included, but the 6 counties remain British and will do so for the forseable future. Anyone who thinks anything different is living in cloud cuckcoo land.
get that hard to believe
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 24, 2010, 06:56:34 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 10:11:43 PM
You ask "What alternative path?" That is exactly my point. People who are most vocal in opposition to SF's current strategy for unity don't seem to be forthcoming with an alternative idea.
Where do we need the alternative ideas? We've all signed up to the GFA, SF included - we don't need to go thinking up ideas, we've decided we'll unite when the majority want to.

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 10:16:58 PM
They are now in a process of building community relations and are the only party with a unionist outreach branch, which aims to build trust and persuade moderate unionists that a UI is in fact nothing to fear.
Maybe other parties don't need an explicit 'unionist outreach branch'. Maybe other parties don't have as far to reach.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 06:58:34 PM
I am Irish, and like most other northerners I aspire to a united Ireland, but I think a lot of northern nationalists need a severe dose of reality. We are further away from a united Ireland than ever before. The GFA has seen to that. This idea that there will be a handover in 2016 is absolute nonsense. It simply will not happen. While Britain may have no strategic interest in the north, it still has the best part of a million unionists to think about. You also have to realise that the unionist MPs are going to have a large bearing on the next parliament, the Conservatives have already realised that and are arranging pacts as we speak.
In my opinion we will not see a united Ireland in our lifetime.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 24, 2010, 07:05:12 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 06:58:34 PM
I am Irish, and like most other northerners I aspire to a united Ireland, but I think a lot of northern nationalists need a severe dose of reality. We are further away from a united Ireland than ever before. The GFA has seen to that. This idea that there will be a handover in 2016 is absolute nonsense. It simply will not happen. While Britain may have no strategic interest in the north, it still has the best part of a million unionists to think about. You also have to realise that the unionist MPs are going to have a large bearing on the next parliament, the Conservatives have already realised that and are arranging pacts as we speak.
In my opinion we will not see a united Ireland in our lifetime.

Couldn't argue a lot with that other than to add as I've done before is that I could see a fair few nationalists not turning out to vote in a referendum about the border cos they're happy enough where they're at currently and can't see joining up with Dublin as having too many plus points.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: SuperMac on January 24, 2010, 06:48:06 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 06:44:38 PM
It is sadly the truth. Many of us may not like it, myself included, but the 6 counties remain British and will do so for the foreseeable future. Anyone who thinks anything different is living in cloud cuckoo land.
So the nationalist population is not going to keep increasing but inexplicablly come to a halt ? Your living in cloud cuckoo land.

Thinking like that is part of the problem. We simply cannot out breed them. We ve had the best part of a century to do so, but haven't managed it yet. Even if we did mange to get a majority, what do we do with what is still going to be a sizeable minority. We cannot send the planters back.

Quote from: orangeman on January 24, 2010, 07:05:12 PM
Couldn't argue a lot with that other than to add as I've done before is that I could see a fair few nationalists not turning out to vote in a referendum about the border cos they're happy enough where they're at currently and can't see joining up with Dublin as having too many plus points.

I actually think that we would turn out in droves if there was ever to be such a referendum. I haven't voted in years, but I would definitely vote for that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longrunsthefox on January 24, 2010, 07:28:48 PM
Chatting to a fellow this week who votes SF. He reckons we are aren't in effect under British rule now and happy can express his Irishness. To me our expression of Irishness is a right we should have had all along. The rest re-British rule is an as good as it gets attitude... 'sure it'll do rightly' which a lot of nationalists have now. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 24, 2010, 07:29:34 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on January 23, 2010, 03:21:26 PM
Forrest Gump (1994) - Memorable quotes.... he ran and ran and ran and one day stopped and said, 'I'm pretty tired... I think I'll go home now. ...' 
ditto this debate
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longrunsthefox on January 24, 2010, 07:30:22 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on January 24, 2010, 07:29:34 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on January 23, 2010, 03:21:26 PM
Forrest Gump (1994) - Memorable quotes.... he ran and ran and ran and one day stopped and said, 'I'm pretty tired... I think I'll go home now. ...' 
ditto this debate

Whatutryingtosayman?   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zapatista on January 24, 2010, 07:36:37 PM
ditto
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 24, 2010, 11:02:07 PM
Maguire, once again you raise my exact point about alternative strategies. A lot of the crap being spouted on this board is people criticing SF's method of achieving unity and being somehow partitionist yet these same people offer no alternative ideas and in fact most admit voting for the agreement, and hence have endorsed the current SF strategy. And as for unionist outreach branch, obviously SF for many unionists have a long way to reach, but they are taking this outreach seriously. Why criticise that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 24, 2010, 11:17:12 PM
Trevor all I can say is im delighted you were not a nationalist political leader. You probably would have had the same "ah sure what can ya do. We cant have the vote so thats just the way it is" attitude. Nationalists are not apathetic. In the '01 general election the Stoop Down Low Party referred to themselves as "post nationalist," (ie your political philosophy). It was generally accepted as their biggest electoral mistake ever and they took a huge backlash from the nationalist community in the election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 11:39:52 PM
Where as your nationalist political leaders made sure we had 25 years of murder and mayhem. 25 years when there was little to no economic investment in the north and what little there was they tried to destroy or extort money from. And after all that they got us the GFA, almost exactly what was on the table in 1974, except that now Ireland has abondoned its constitutional claim to the north.
Keep Ulster Bristish, Vótáil Sinn Féin.  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 25, 2010, 03:30:59 AM
And there we have the typical anti republican view that it was all the big bad republicans who  caused all the trouble. There were two sides. In 1974 the brit war machine was in full swing. As i already pointed out, there was no stability then, the IRA felt it was 1994 before it believed the british govn was prepared to talk and yet Canary wharf in 1996 was the result of the british govn not taking republican attempts to talk seriously. As for your last comment, who should we vote for to gain unity then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bonaduche on January 30, 2010, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 25, 2010, 03:30:59 AM
And there we have the typical anti republican view that it was all the big bad republicans who  caused all the trouble. There were two sides. In 1974 the brit war machine was in full swing. As i already pointed out, there was no stability then, the IRA felt it was 1994 before it believed the british govn was prepared to talk and yet Canary wharf in 1996 was the result of the british govn not taking republican attempts to talk seriously. As for your last comment, who should we vote for to gain unity then?
its strange to read some of the comments of people whohighlight they  dont have crowns on their passports and express their irishness withprife by  condemingfellow  irish people as toadyies for inviting a queen to visit their country....    then if you go back on their posts you can discover their double life as english soccer supporters who referre to their teams as our boys       who is the wanna be huns here. the shinners have done fantastic to bring our country to the position it is in at present and will progress and make this the greatest country in the world.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 30, 2010, 06:43:04 PM
Ah, yes bring in the English soccer teams reference once again why not... ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longrunsthefox on January 30, 2010, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: bonaduche on January 30, 2010, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 25, 2010, 03:30:59 AM
And there we have the typical anti republican view that it was all the big bad republicans who  caused all the trouble. There were two sides. In 1974 the brit war machine was in full swing. As i already pointed out, there was no stability then, the IRA felt it was 1994 before it believed the british govn was prepared to talk and yet Canary wharf in 1996 was the result of the british govn not taking republican attempts to talk seriously. As for your last comment, who should we vote for to gain unity then?
its strange to read some of the comments of people whohighlight they  dont have crowns on their passports and express their irishness withprife by  condemingfellow  irish people as toadyies for inviting a queen to visit their country....    then if you go back on their posts you can discover their double life as english soccer supporters who referre to their teams as our boys       who is the wanna be huns here. the shinners have done fantastic to bring our country to the position it is in at present and will progress and make this the greatest country in the world.

Are you Stephen Nolan  ???   the greatest show in the country  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on August 09, 2012, 10:20:47 PM
Were is the "were are Sinn Fein" thread - has it been removed? The following story published at the weekend in the Sunday Life hasn't had much airtime, someone being protected ? Could be very damaging for Sinn Fein and maybe a wee yank of the leash from the British.


FIVE CHARGED WITH IRA MEMBERSHIP


By Ciaran Barnes

Sunday life 05 August 2012

Five people including Sinn Fein activists in Belfast have been charged with belonging to the Provisional IRA more than a decade ago. For legal reasons none of the five can be named at this stage.
The accused - three men and two women,were scheduled to appear at the city's magistrates court last Thursay.But they were excused from standing in the dock after their case was adjourned.
During a short hearing the court ordered that "no details pertaining to their identification be published". The five are charged with "belonging to or professing to belong to a proscribed organisation,namely the Provisional IRA".
The Provo membership charges relate to various dates between 1997 and 2000.Two men are further charged with organising,managing and addressing meetings of the IRA.
One of the men faces an additional claim of forcing a woman to co-operate with a Provisional IRA investigation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 09, 2012, 10:28:38 PM
Why would it be damaging? Surely it's vindication of Gerry A's "I was not in the IRA" stance?

As for Ciaran Barnes - guttersnipe, as his behaviour over the Boston College/Marion Price episode demonstrates. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on August 09, 2012, 11:23:32 PM
Some people in SF were in the IRA. Shocker alright there Saffron.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on August 09, 2012, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 09, 2012, 11:23:32 PM
Some people in SF were in the IRA. Shocker alright there Saffron.

A decade ago ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on August 10, 2012, 01:47:40 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on August 09, 2012, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 09, 2012, 11:23:32 PM
Some people in SF were in the IRA. Shocker alright there Saffron.

A decade ago ?

5 to 8 years before the IRA stood down, according to the article. Again, shocker of a story  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Trout on August 10, 2012, 05:48:51 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 10, 2012, 01:47:40 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on August 09, 2012, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 09, 2012, 11:23:32 PM
Some people in SF were in the IRA. Shocker alright there Saffron.

A decade ago ?

5 to 8 years before the IRA surrendered for their 30 pieces in Stormont, according to the article. Again, shocker of a story  ::)

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 23, 2012, 08:52:21 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on August 09, 2012, 10:20:47 PM
Were is the "were are Sinn Fein" thread - has it been removed?
That was lawnseed's thread if i'm not mistaken. lawnseed?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 23, 2012, 08:55:42 AM
I found this mildly amusing...

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir‏@newbelfast
BBC News - Athletic Stores campaigners can challenge demolition decision http://bbc.in/UyLYTo Good news. Defending built heritage vital!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 23, 2012, 09:30:06 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 23, 2012, 08:55:42 AM
I found this mildly amusing...

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir‏@newbelfast
BBC News - Athletic Stores campaigners can challenge demolition decision http://bbc.in/UyLYTo Good news. Defending built heritage vital!
The term "collective amnesia" was invented for the Sinners!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 23, 2012, 10:47:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working
The people who though FF made sense now think SF make sense. Although its margin of error stuff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 11:02:27 AM
Fighting a losing battle Maguire,but keep the faith as you never know people may wake up and listen to you
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on September 23, 2012, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working

Up 2% in a 1000 people poll, momentous stuff. United Ireland mustn't be far away now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 23, 2012, 11:13:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 23, 2012, 10:47:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working
The people who though FF made sense now think SF make sense. Although its margin of error stuff.

Well in fairness, surely the election results prove that the people who thought FF made sense now think that FG and Labour make sense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 11:16:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 23, 2012, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working

Up 2% in a 1000 people poll, momentous stuff. United Ireland mustn't be far away now.

You keep up all your hard work and you will get us there,at what time is the meeting at McArts fort?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 11:21:01 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 23, 2012, 11:13:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 23, 2012, 10:47:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working
The people who though FF made sense now think SF make sense. Although its margin of error stuff.

Well in fairness, surely the election results prove that the people who thought FF made sense now think that FG and Labour make sense.

Sure Maguire believes his own propaganda,the poll shows as others have done that it's Labour who are dropping and FF staying the same,but that might be too hard for him to understand
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on September 23, 2012, 11:48:10 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 11:16:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 23, 2012, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working

Up 2% in a 1000 people poll, momentous stuff. United Ireland mustn't be far away now.

You keep up all your hard work and you will get us there,at what time is the meeting at McArts fort?

Sinn Fein are keeping up their hard work with the DUP and the Brits to ensure it never happens.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 11:52:48 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 23, 2012, 11:48:10 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 11:16:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 23, 2012, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working

Up 2% in a 1000 people poll, momentous stuff. United Ireland mustn't be far away now.

You keep up all your hard work and you will get us there,at what time is the meeting at McArts fort?

Sinn Fein are keeping up their hard work with the DUP and the Brits to ensure it never happens.

That needle stuck again,get over what Sinn Fein are doing and away and free Ireland,think Martin Og has a plan
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 23, 2012, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 11:21:01 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 23, 2012, 11:13:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 23, 2012, 10:47:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working
The people who though FF made sense now think SF make sense. Although its margin of error stuff.

Well in fairness, surely the election results prove that the people who thought FF made sense now think that FG and Labour make sense.

Sure Maguire believes his own propaganda,the poll shows as others have done that it's Labour who are dropping and FF staying the same,but that might be too hard for him to understand
Propoganda?

And I was referring to the swing at the general election. But you can apply the same to those who left FF for FG and Labour as well, if you wish.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 23, 2012, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 23, 2012, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 23, 2012, 10:24:04 AM
Up again in today's Red C poll.keep up this shite boys it's working

Up 2% in a 1000 people poll, momentous stuff. United Ireland mustn't be far away now.
The irony being that they're riding high(er) in the polls by not mentioning the constitutional question - they know the public aren't interested.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 11, 2012, 10:59:53 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on August 09, 2012, 10:20:47 PM
Were is the "were are Sinn Fein" thread - has it been removed? The following story published at the weekend in the Sunday Life hasn't had much airtime, someone being protected ? Could be very damaging for Sinn Fein and maybe a wee yank of the leash from the British.


FIVE CHARGED WITH IRA MEMBERSHIP


By Ciaran Barnes

Sunday life 05 August 2012

Five people including Sinn Fein activists in Belfast have been charged with belonging to the Provisional IRA more than a decade ago. For legal reasons none of the five can be named at this stage.
The accused - three men and two women,were scheduled to appear at the city's magistrates court last Thursay.But they were excused from standing in the dock after their case was adjourned.
During a short hearing the court ordered that "no details pertaining to their identification be published". The five are charged with "belonging to or professing to belong to a proscribed organisation,namely the Provisional IRA".
The Provo membership charges relate to various dates between 1997 and 2000.Two men are further charged with organising,managing and addressing meetings of the IRA.
One of the men faces an additional claim of forcing a woman to co-operate with a Provisional IRA investigation.

Five IRA accused can be named - Judge

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19916749


A judge has lifted a ban on naming five people facing charges of membership of the IRA and other offences from more than a decade ago.

They include Seamus Finucane, a Sinn Fein member and brother of the murdered Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane.

The BBC had challenged the ban.

The BBC cannot reveal full details of the charges in the case - but can reveal the names of those involved after reporting restrictions were lifted.

Mr Finucane, 55, is a member of Sinn Fein and a community worker in west Belfast.

The others include 53-year-old Padraic Wilson, who was the leader of the IRA in the Maze prison in the late 1990s and is currently Sinn Fein's director of international affairs.

Both men are facing charges of IRA membership and arranging, addressing or assisting in the management of an IRA meeting.

Another man, 48-year-old Martin Edward Morris, with an address in London, is also charged with membership of the IRA.

Two Belfast women are also facing charges.

Agnes McCrory, 72, from Dermot Hill Road, and 55-year-old Briege Wright from Glassmullin Gardens, are accused of membership of the IRA, and arranging, addressing or assisting in the management of an IRA meeting.

The two women and Mr Finucane are also charged accused of unlawfully forcing a person who cannot be identified to co-operate with an IRA investigation.

Lifting the restrictions, district judge Fiona Bagnall agreed with the BBC's argument that open justice was a cornerstone of the criminal judicial system.




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on October 13, 2012, 01:02:34 AM
A lttle titbit which seems to have escaped the attention of the Board's (concerned) Resident Shinners:

19 September 2012

John O'Dowd breached code for ministerial appointments

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/62948000/jpg/_62948807__59582790_johnodowd.jpg)
A man with an enormous feckin' chin - and an even bigger neck

A report has found that Education Minister John O'Dowd breached the code for ministerial appointments.

It relates to appointments to the board of the General Teaching Council.

The commissioner for public appointments, who examined the process, said the code was not complied with "to a substantial degree."

He found a total of seven breaches. These included no record of the reasons for Mr O'Dowd's selection of three applicants from a shortlist of five.

Another failing concerned the information provided to Mr O'Dowd by the panel that interviewed the applicants.

Six people were interviewed and five of them were deemed suitable for appointment.

However, the commissioner said the applicant summary drawn up for Mr O'Dowd was "limited in content".

As well as breaches of the code, the report said there were five further shortcomings in what is considered best practice.

The commissioner's report said the department should give "urgent consideration" to the findings.

A spokesman for Mr. O'Dowd said "We're Sinn Fein, so we're not capable of Discriminashun, so we're nat, nat even my bigoted Ministerial colleague, Conor Murphy. Or hav' yis all forgat about 800 Years of Oppresshun, hav' yis?

Anyhow, there's a big Ministerial cyar waitin' and we hav' til go before anyone asks who the Driver is, an' how he got the job..."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19638161
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: fitzroyalty on October 13, 2012, 11:50:24 AM
I see someone was on the West Coast Cooler last night.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SuperMac on October 13, 2012, 01:48:02 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 13, 2012, 01:02:34 AMJohn O'Dowd breached code for ministerial appointments

A spokesman for Mr. O'Dowd said "We're Sinn Fein, so we're not capable of Discriminashun, so we're nat, nat even my bigoted Ministerial colleague, Conor Murphy. Or hav' yis all forgat about 800 Years of Oppresshun, hav' yis?

Anyhow, there's a big Ministerial cyar waitin' and we hav' til go before anyone asks who the Driver is, an' how he got the job..."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19638161

What's that EG, trying to promote the Ulster Scots ' language ' yet again :D " An, do knee forgat 'bout the Ulstur Covenantur's who weed 'ave sacreeficed thamselves at thee stake jus' leek thur Scottash ancesturs "  :D Ah yes, the cenotaph hugger strikes again !!!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on October 13, 2012, 03:17:02 PM
Quote from: SuperMac on October 13, 2012, 01:48:02 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 13, 2012, 01:02:34 AMJohn O'Dowd breached code for ministerial appointments

A spokesman for Mr. O'Dowd said "We're Sinn Fein, so we're not capable of Discriminashun, so we're nat, nat even my bigoted Ministerial colleague, Conor Murphy. Or hav' yis all forgat about 800 Years of Oppresshun, hav' yis?

Anyhow, there's a big Ministerial cyar waitin' and we hav' til go before anyone asks who the Driver is, an' how he got the job..."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19638161

What's that EG, trying to promote the Ulster Scots ' language ' yet again :D " An, do knee forgat 'bout the Ulstur Covenantur's who weed 'ave sacreeficed thamselves at thee stake jus' leek thur Scottash ancesturs "  :D Ah yes, the cenotaph hugger strikes again !!!!!
If you've ever read any of my posts on the topic, you'll know that I have no time for all this "Ulster-Scots Language Grant Scam" - it's a load of bollox, imo.

And if you've ever heard O'Dowd, you'll know that however you dub it, that's how our esteemed Education Minister speaks:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/local/o-dowd-under-attack-after-grammar-gaffes-1-4201101

P.S. Any comment on how the big-chinned bastard blithely ignores the Rules when it comes to making Departmental appointments?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Billys Boots on October 13, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
I might have known that Mr. Genius would be around today.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 14, 2012, 10:15:50 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/1004/1224324835607.html

Clearing Gerry Adams's name

Sir, – I have just read a report (Home News, September 28th) on how my ex-Westminister MP, Gerry Adams is unable to answer charges made by Dolours Price in the Sunday Telegraph on September 23rd  in a court of law – the allegation concerning of bombing, kidnapping and murder – due to his lack of funds.  I for one will not stand as a one-time constituent and see my ex-MP have his good name and commitment to the peace process put in doubt for the lack of funds.

Justice denied to Jean McConville and her family and to many others, must not be denied to Gerry Adams, former  Westminster MP for West Belfast. I will therefore send a cheque for one euro to Adams's Dáil office and would appeal and urge others interested in the truth to promote democracy and freedom of speech to do the same. Indeed, would perhaps another good citizen call for a fighting fund to help clear Mr Adams's name and reputation from these charges once and for all? – Yours, etc,

Cllr BRIAN HEADING (SDLP),

Lisburn City Council,

Mount Eagles Avenue,

Lagmore,

Dunmurry, Lisburn.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on October 14, 2012, 10:40:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 14, 2012, 10:15:50 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/1004/1224324835607.html

Clearing Gerry Adams's name

Sir, – I have just read a report (Home News, September 28th) on how my ex-Westminister MP, Gerry Adams is unable to answer charges made by Dolours Price in the Sunday Telegraph on September 23rd  in a court of law – the allegation concerning of bombing, kidnapping and murder – due to his lack of funds.  I for one will not stand as a one-time constituent and see my ex-MP have his good name and commitment to the peace process put in doubt for the lack of funds.

Justice denied to Jean McConville and her family and to many others, must not be denied to Gerry Adams, former  Westminster MP for West Belfast. I will therefore send a cheque for one euro to Adams's Dáil office and would appeal and urge others interested in the truth to promote democracy and freedom of speech to do the same. Indeed, would perhaps another good citizen call for a fighting fund to help clear Mr Adams's name and reputation from these charges once and for all? – Yours, etc,

Cllr BRIAN HEADING (SDLP),

Lisburn City Council,

Mount Eagles Avenue,

Lagmore,

Dunmurry, Lisburn.

last year i was acused of being a tight scrooge my civil and human rights have been devalued and a great injustice has been done.
i'd like to clear my name send me money and i need euros cause the case is in lanzorote next may/june ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 17, 2012, 10:16:58 PM
@IpsosMRBI: New opinion poll for the @IrishTimes: FG 31% (-1), FF 21% (+4), SF 20% (-4), Lab 12% (+2), Ind/ Others 14% (-1), Greens 2%(=).

@IpsosMRBI: Opinion Poll: Satisfaction w. leaders E.Kenny 33%(-3), E.Gilmore 23%(-3), M.Martin 28%(-3), G.Adams 29%(-8), E.Ryan 12%(+2).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on October 17, 2012, 11:13:43 PM
So if there were an election tomorrow, just over a fifth of the population of the 26 counties would vote Fianna Fáil? The mind just boggles. Does Ireland have any hope for the future with such a large amount of utter fcukwits in the electorate?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on October 17, 2012, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 17, 2012, 11:13:43 PM
So if there were an election tomorrow, just over a fifth of the population of the 26 counties would vote Fianna Fáil? The mind just boggles. Does Ireland have any hope for the future with such a large amount of utter fcukwits in the electorate?

Emmmm.... is that 1/5 or 4/5 are the fcukwits?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:03:37 PM
time for a new leader. Gerry isn't doing the business. he has failed to land a single killer blow on either fianna fail or fine gael. both of these parties are the same. they persue the same policies they indulge in cronyism they don't keep any of their election promises and yet Gerry just doesn't seem to be able to pin them down.  i think sinn fein would benefit from a change of leadership with pierce taking over before the next election infact the sooner the better perhaps peadar tobin as deputy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 22, 2012, 11:44:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:03:37 PM
time for a new leader. Gerry isn't doing the business. he has failed to land a single killer blow on either fianna fail or fine gael. both of these parties are the same. they persue the same policies they indulge in cronyism they don't keep any of their election promises and yet Gerry just doesn't seem to be able to pin them down.  i think sinn fein would benefit from a change of leadership with pierce taking over before the next election infact the sooner the better perhaps peadar tobin as deputy

Suprised that Sinn Féin can't land a single killer blow.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:48:35 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 22, 2012, 11:44:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:03:37 PM
time for a new leader. Gerry isn't doing the business. he has failed to land a single killer blow on either fianna fail or fine gael. both of these parties are the same. they persue the same policies they indulge in cronyism they don't keep any of their election promises and yet Gerry just doesn't seem to be able to pin them down.  i think sinn fein would benefit from a change of leadership with pierce taking over before the next election infact the sooner the better perhaps peadar tobin as deputy

Suprised that Sinn Féin can't land a single killer blow.
endas landed a few killer blows around roscommon since he lied about closing the hospitals
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 22, 2012, 11:53:55 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:48:35 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 22, 2012, 11:44:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:03:37 PM
time for a new leader. Gerry isn't doing the business. he has failed to land a single killer blow on either fianna fail or fine gael. both of these parties are the same. they persue the same policies they indulge in cronyism they don't keep any of their election promises and yet Gerry just doesn't seem to be able to pin them down.  i think sinn fein would benefit from a change of leadership with pierce taking over before the next election infact the sooner the better perhaps peadar tobin as deputy

Suprised that Sinn Féin can't land a single killer blow.
endas landed a few killer blows around roscommon since he lied about closing the hospitals

Good man, you are now regularly spelling the Taoiseach's name correctly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on October 23, 2012, 01:07:36 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:03:37 PMtime for a new leader. Gerry isn't doing the business
Can't see anyone moving against him - he knows where all the bodies are buried...*

Anyhow, with the "Armed Struggle" [sic] a thing of the past and no sign of a UI anywhere on the horizon, I predict that both he and McGuinness will make plans to step down not too long after they've got Easter 1916 out of the way.

Which will provide the opportunity for the new breed of younger, probably Republic-based successors to take over. Of course, without the kudos/stench (delete as preferred) of the IRA attached to them, the new guys will be free to lead the Party in a new direction, should they choose.

And this is something which someone like me should welcome, not just because it must take us all further away from the misery and evil inflicted upon everyone by the former leadership, but also because it will almost certainly mean SF will become just another political party, pretty much indistinguishable from all the others.

Meanwhile, Adams and McGuinness will have their retirement years to ponder whether it was all worth the 2,000+ deaths their activities caused, before they finally snuff it in a (still) partitioned Ireland...   

I hope I live long enough to see that day myself.





* - And just in case anyone should be in any doubt, I'm being literal, not humourous  >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 25, 2012, 12:30:34 PM
  Speech by Declan Kearney at Westminister 24/10/12




National Reconciliation in Ireland – The Need For Uncomfortable Conversations
(Westminister 24 October 2012)

British colonial interests and successive government policy have been at the root of political conflict in Ireland, and between our countries for centuries.
British government strategy and its threat of 'immediate and terrible war' in the period of the 1921 negotiations after the Tan War was the midwife for the Irish Civil War, and the catalyst for partition.
That led to the onset of unionist one party misrule in the North of Ireland for 50 years. The constitutional, political and economic structure of the northern state was the context for over 30 years of war and armed struggle.
Citizens in Ireland today continue to live with the legacy of the civil war and northern unionists and nationalists live with the legacy of partition in all its forms.
Although British state policy towards the north throughout and to the present day has remained intrinsically unionist, several British administrations have made significant contributions alongside the work of many in developing the Irish peace process during the last twenty years.
That peace process is now irreversible. The war is over, and the conditions of conflict have been removed.
Our peace process is widely admired as a template for conflict resolution. But whilst the process is irreversible, we are still not at peace with each other.
The historical experience of the Irish civil war is that the failure to put in place a reconciliation process after its conclusion created massive fault-lines and division which endured for nine decades.
The immediate challenge as our island emerges from its most recent phase of political conflict is to engage on the development of a reconciliation process in the north, and which addresses the trans generational division and hurt created by the civil war and our political conflicts ever since.
In the past republican leaders have travelled here to Britain to negotiate and discuss the detail of frameworks and agreements which have helped to bring about the Irish peace process and to press the case for Irish unity.
Tonight I want to make the case for the imperative of opening up a new phase in our peace process; that is a phase based on reconciliation and healing.
Although the conditions of conflict have been addressed, the legacy of division, hurt and fear has the potential to be passed on to future generations.
Sinn Féin believes that our generation has a responsibility to stop that happening and to do our best to ensure those future generations have the opportunity to grow up in a better society than we did.
There is new 'heavy lifting' still to be undertaken in the peace process.
Enormous human hurt was caused during the political conflict. 
Republicans, unionists and Irish and British citizens share a deep collective pain.
Whilst we might all wish it could be otherwise, we cannot undo the past, but neither can we or should we forget.
During her visit to Dublin last year Queen Elizabeth said;
"With the benefit of historical hindsight we can all see things we would wish had been done differently or not at all."
All reasonable people will agree with that assessment.
But neither should we allow the past to become a barrier to the future.
That is why Sinn Féin believes it is not only possible but essential that we open a new phase in our process, and facilitate dialogue on how all hurts caused can be equally acknowledged, salved, and if possible healed. And to seek to do this in a spirit of shared compassion, generosity towards one another and recognising our common humanity.
We all need to continue the unfinished journey of our peace process, so that future generations are liberated to explore new possibilities, rather than be burdened with legacies for which they carry no responsibility.
Maya Angelou put it well;
"History despite its wrenching pain cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage need not be lived again."
Applying the sense of that wisdom will not be easy. It can only come about by a collective resolve to do this by trying to better understand each other, and imagine what it is like to walk in one another's shoes.
I have characterised the process of national reconciliation in Ireland as involving "uncomfortable conversations".
These need to take place within and between communities in my country, and as part of that the British state needs to reflect and discuss how to address its responsibilities for the adversity and conflict it perpetuated in Ireland, and between Britain and Ireland.
The republican constituency has begun to discuss the need for national reconciliation. I and other republican leaders have said that means being prepared to move outside our own comfort zones, and being prepared to embrace new thinking.
The Sinn Féin leadership have spoken of and then acted on the need for more compromises and initiatives to advance the peace process, and the wider national interest.
Earlier this year Republicans across Ireland had a very uncomfortable conversation among ourselves about whether Martin McGuinness should meet Queen Elizabeth. Many disagreed, but many more agreed with doing so – because it was the right thing to do.
And that is fundamentally what reconciliation must be about, doing the right thing; even when faced with impasse and opposition.
At this time the potential for reconciliation is challenged by a developing status quo supported by some in the north, which perversely provides for acceptable levels of sectarianism division and fear; and, I would add to that, acceptable levels of instability provoked by militarists opposed to the peace process.
The outworking of that is evidenced in a unionist mindset which tolerates the insistence by loyal order band parades to disrespect the rights of Catholics and nationalist communities. And which also normalises an ongoing refusal to share power with republicans in majority unionist councils.
This summer political unionism singularly failed to give leadership and say or do the right things to confront sectarianism and the violence which it provoked.
Instead of going out front and forcefully defending the principles of equality and mutual respect the leadership of political unionism and specifically the DUP caved in to the lowest common denominators of sectarian triumphalism.
The last five years have been a very slow learning curve on equality and respect for the DUP. 
Peter Robinson's recent outbursts betray a real discomfort in trying to represent both unionists, republicans and nationalists. He needs to stop talking out of both sides of his mouth, and get with the programme. 
He cannot be a latter day James Craig or Basil Brooke, because the Orange State has gone.  He can only sit in OFM/dFM if he shares power properly with republicans.  The Orange Order and Loyalist bands cannot walk wherever they want; the eleven plus isn't coming back; minorities do have rights; and nationalists in the north are no longer second class citizens.
The DUP leadership needs to get out of its time warp, get into real time, and start doing grown up politics with the rest of us.
Opposition to sectarianism is not a negotiation or an optional choice, it must be a leadership imperative.
The challenge posed by the unresolved parading issue could be resolved by agreement on the core issues of equality and mutual respect if these are taken forward with united political leadership from unionism and republicanism, particularly by Peter Robinson and Martin Mc Guinness. But failure to do so fuel the extremes within each community opposed to the peace process.
None of that should be allowed to frustrate the pursuit of reconciliation.
We don't need to reinvent the wheel.
The Good Friday Agreement has already enshrined the principles of equality, parity of esteem, mutual respect and political coexistence.  It provides a framework within which to find important common ground, if the political will exists to do so.
The Hillsborough Castle Agreement set out key principles in relation to parades, with which the DUP agreed, based upon local people providing local solutions, mutual respect, and the right of all citizens to live free from sectarian harassment.
Sinn Féin is calling for an all inclusive national discussion on reconciliation leading to the development of a national reconciliation strategy.
Let me tell you how such a road map might take shape.
We believe republican and unionist political leaders need to take the lead in beginning a national discussion on reconciliation.
This should be leadership frontloaded by;
        Firstly, concluding in the weeks ahead the Cohesion Sharing Integration strategy. This then needs built upon with a charter supporting anti-sectarianism, equality and mutual respect, sponsored and led by OFM/dFM. This initiative itself would contribute to easing the parading impasse; begin to ensure power-sharing happens across all councils in the north; and demonstrate to our communities in a very practical way the need for mutual respect.
        Secondly, and building upon work already undertaken by some local communities, to take a lead in developing cross-community and multi-agency initiatives aimed at reducing segregation through the removal of peace walls, and actively promoting increased integrated community life, and cross-community social and cultural activity.
        Thirdly, agreeing to take forward a united platform in opposition to anti-peace process militarists within nationalism, and against those unionist paramilitaries wedded to violence and criminality.
        Fourthly, cross-party and cross community agreement on additional strategic economic and social interventions and capacity building in areas of objective need across the north.
By ensuring this agenda is strategically driven and stratified across society it can provide the template for local community engagement about the future and the quality of political/community leadership, which we must all provide to move the peace process forward.
Critical mass and momentum is needed to build grassroots community support for reconciliation otherwise it remains theoretical and abstract.
A national reconciliation strategy coordinated under the auspices of the North-South Ministerial Council, and supported by both the Assembly and Oireachtas should be the mechanism into which these four measures fit and by which key measurable and actionable priorities can be agreed and implemented.
Reconciliation is not the property or responsibility of any single political party or community. Engagement between us all is required on how best to proceed.
But move forward we must, because what we have at present is not good enough.
Fear of change is part of our post-conflict legacy.
That can be real or imaginary, at times.
Some have expressed fear, scepticism and suspicion of this Sinn Féin initiative on reconciliation. But those concerns can only be allayed through dialogue.
The refusal of political unionism to engage in this discussion is a mistake, because the alternative is to offer the politics of despair.
A policy on non-engagement validates the segregation which blights our society and helps perpetuate the 'them and us' mentality and all of the misunderstanding and abuses which have flowed from that.
But political unionism's refusal to engage on the development of an authentic reconciliation agenda is also duplicitous and contradictory.
That is illustrated in their bellicose demands for actions now, instead of words from Republicans, and more recently apologies from the 26 Counties government. 
All this while refusing to acknowledge fifty years of one party misrule; their own associations with actual and threatened violence and killings during the Ulster Workers' strikes in the 1970s; during the anti-Hillsborough Agreement protests in the 1980s;  during the Drumcree crisis in the 1990s; and involvement with organisations such as the Third Force and Ulster Clubs.
The fact is, unionist politicians throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s legitimised and rationalised sectarian killings by unionist paramilitaries; and have continued, including this summer, to publicly associate themselves with unionist paramilitary leaders.
Senior DUP leaders need to realise that political responsibility for 'acts of commission and omission', to borrow a phrase from a DUP minister, cuts both ways.
In recent months it has been breathtaking and bewildering to listen to the recriminatory rhetoric used by representatives of political unionism in public discussions on reconciliation.
Their contributions sit in stark juxtaposition to the involvement of DUP politicians in Ulster Resistance; its documented role in importing weapons later sold to the UDA, with the support of several British agents, not just Brian Nelson; and, subsequently used in multiple sectarian and political assassinations during the 1980s and 1990s.
The DUP would be wise to pause and take a step back.
Unionists and republicans both have to take responsibility for our actions. 
Sinn Fein is saying that now we all have to decide what we are going to do about the future. Our course is set.
The DUP and UUP have a very simple choice to make.  They can continue to throw recriminations all over the place, and accomplish absolutely nothing, except leave their own communities to languish in the status quo; or join with the rest of us, embrace new thinking and continue to make more change.
But ordinary unionist and loyalist citizens are not powerless. They do have a choice, whether to put up with deficits in vision and strategy from the unionist political leadership, or begin to demand uncomfortable conversations with DUP and UUP leaders, and tell them to start leading into the future and not backwards.
None of us as unionists or republicans should let our past shackle how we move to the future. Reconciliation is something we can and should do together in the here and now.
Inevitably we need to deal with the past and all the unanswered questions; and that should be done by agreeing to the establishment of an independent, international truth commission.
Some say that republicans are not serious when we advocate that option.
But what we say means everyone – governments, political parties, and British, unionist and republican combatants, and others – going into that arena together and at the same time; and to deal there with all the causes and consequences of the conflict.
That is Sinn Fein's unambiguous policy position.
Significantly others have gone or remained silent on this issue, most notably the British Government.  Owen Patterson's precondition of gaining a consensus on the way forward is aimed at pursuing gridlock, by making a demand which cannot be delivered on.
Perhaps the unavoidable and many uncomfortable conversations which the British state needs to have within itself, and the rest of us about its past use of Military Reconnaissance Force counter gangs; Force Research Unit agents; and, present day running of agents in the unionist paramilitaries, and anti peace process militarists, explains its' silence?
If the British state is not prepared to contribute to truth recovery by owning up to all aspects and consequences of its military, intelligence, and black operations campaign in Ireland, then it must spell out their alternative to an independent, international process. But let's be clear, that will have to mean everyone's role in the past being placed on an even playing field.
For now the responsibility of this and future British governments must be to facilitate, and politically and economically invest in a new phase of the peace process.
The incumbent administration should be persuaders and facilitators for reconciliation.
This requires acknowledgement by them, in some form or another, of the role of successive British governments and their agencies in past conflict.
And it requires a significant input by them to a regeneration programme in the north which redresses the legacy of conflict, past divisions and the decades of underfunding of public services.
It requires an enabling programme with a new dynamic.
A useful beginning would be;
        The implementation of outstanding elements of the Good Friday, St. Andrews and Hillsborough Castle Agreements;
        Committal of the previously agreed £18bn for much needed capital spend projects in the six counties
        A disapplication of the Welfare Cuts agenda to the north and the lowering of corporation tax there;
        A review of the Barnett Formula and the transfer of fiscal powers to the Executive.

Add to this;
        the closure of the NIO,
        withdrawal of the British Secretary of State,
        the transfer of reserved powers to the Executive, and
        the setting of a date for a Border Poll.

Then we are at once into a major advance in the outworking of the conflict resolution process and a new dynamic; and all in a non-prescriptive way recognising that it is for the people of Ireland, north and south, to determine and shape their future.

New and big thinking needs brought to the political and peace processes in Ireland.  The British state and political unionism need to step up to the mark.
Sinn Féin has a vision of an authentic reconciliation process with the capacity to heal divisions within and between diverse communities on the island of Ireland and between our country and Britain.
We aspire to a new phase of the peace process, which allows for the replacement of division with new human and political relationships.
Our ambition is to achieve reconciliation in our time and the beginning of an era in which we all as Republican, unionist, Irish and British citizens can become friends with one another:  a time when our children learn to play and grow up together; and in which, to paraphrase Bobby Sands, the future can echo with their laughter.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on October 25, 2012, 01:04:03 PM
I seen 'Declan Kearny's speech at Westminster' heading and I stopped there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 25, 2012, 01:06:57 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on October 25, 2012, 01:04:03 PM
I seen 'Declan Kearny's speech at Westminster' heading and I stopped there.

Good man with an open mind. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on October 25, 2012, 01:19:24 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 23, 2012, 01:07:36 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:03:37 PMtime for a new leader. Gerry isn't doing the business
Can't see anyone moving against him - he knows where all the bodies are buried...*

Anyhow, with the "Armed Struggle" [sic] a thing of the past and no sign of a UI anywhere on the horizon, I predict that both he and McGuinness will make plans to step down not too long after they've got Easter 1916 out of the way.

Which will provide the opportunity for the new breed of younger, probably Republic-based successors to take over. Of course, without the kudos/stench (delete as preferred) of the IRA attached to them, the new guys will be free to lead the Party in a new direction, should they choose.

And this is something which someone like me should welcome, not just because it must take us all further away from the misery and evil inflicted upon everyone by the former leadership, but also because it will almost certainly mean SF will become just another political party, pretty much indistinguishable from all the others.

Meanwhile, Adams and McGuinness will have their retirement years to ponder whether it was all worth the 2,000+ deaths their activities caused, before they finally snuff it in a (still) partitioned Ireland...   

I hope I live long enough to see that day myself.

* - And just in case anyone should be in any doubt, I'm being literal, not humourous  >:(

They say a week is a long time in politics, EG and I rather think 3.5 years is an absolute age.  Whatever about McGuinness, I don't think Adams is a "peacetime" leader and while he may be well versed in the intricacies of revolutionary politics he doesn't possess the required nuanced grasp of the issues around the economy, health, foreign policy etc.  I think he needs to be replaced a lot sooner than post 2016 if SF are to make gains amongst the Southern electorate.  As you have said in other threads (and I agree) SF's vote in the North has peaked + or - 10,000 votes here or there.  So for them to make inroads in the South (amongst other things) they need (ironically for an anti partition party) a Southern leader with no "military" credentials.  If I were an SF strategist I'd be saying "What possible benefit is there to wait until 2016/2017?  Sure Gerry can turn up at 2016 celebrations portraying himself as the grey haired elder statesman of Northern Republicanism, if he wants..."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 25, 2012, 06:23:30 PM
So, just to be clear, he wants...
Quote from: glens abu on October 25, 2012, 12:30:34 PM
        The implementation of outstanding elements of the Good Friday, St. Andrews and Hillsborough Castle Agreements;

...but he also wants...
Quote from: glens abu on October 25, 2012, 12:30:34 PM
Add to this;
        the closure of the NIO,
        withdrawal of the British Secretary of State,
        the transfer of reserved powers to the Executive, and
        the setting of a date for a Border Poll.

Doesn't the second list of demands contradict the idea of demanding full implementation of the GFA?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 25, 2012, 10:36:12 PM
I know Magure you stoops and the dissos thinks the same but to the Shinners the GFA was always a work in progress not the end result.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on October 25, 2012, 11:21:43 PM
Quotebut to the Shinners the GFA was always a work in progress not the end result.

Which parts of the project are being worked on at present?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2012, 07:54:41 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 25, 2012, 10:36:12 PM
I know Magure you stoops and the dissos thinks the same but to the Shinners the GFA was always a work in progress not the end result.
I fully appreciate that things can develop, but that 'wish-list' is nothing more than hot air (and to keep SF's own support base convinced). On what basis does SF expect the British government to ignore the GFA and get rid of the SoS etc? Or call a border poll?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on October 27, 2012, 05:34:44 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 25, 2012, 01:19:24 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 23, 2012, 01:07:36 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:03:37 PMtime for a new leader. Gerry isn't doing the business
Can't see anyone moving against him - he knows where all the bodies are buried...*

Anyhow, with the "Armed Struggle" [sic] a thing of the past and no sign of a UI anywhere on the horizon, I predict that both he and McGuinness will make plans to step down not too long after they've got Easter 1916 out of the way.

Which will provide the opportunity for the new breed of younger, probably Republic-based successors to take over. Of course, without the kudos/stench (delete as preferred) of the IRA attached to them, the new guys will be free to lead the Party in a new direction, should they choose.

And this is something which someone like me should welcome, not just because it must take us all further away from the misery and evil inflicted upon everyone by the former leadership, but also because it will almost certainly mean SF will become just another political party, pretty much indistinguishable from all the others.

Meanwhile, Adams and McGuinness will have their retirement years to ponder whether it was all worth the 2,000+ deaths their activities caused, before they finally snuff it in a (still) partitioned Ireland...   

I hope I live long enough to see that day myself.

* - And just in case anyone should be in any doubt, I'm being literal, not humourous  >:(

They say a week is a long time in politics, EG and I rather think 3.5 years is an absolute age.  Whatever about McGuinness, I don't think Adams is a "peacetime" leader and while he may be well versed in the intricacies of revolutionary politics he doesn't possess the required nuanced grasp of the issues around the economy, health, foreign policy etc.  I think he needs to be replaced a lot sooner than post 2016 if SF are to make gains amongst the Southern electorate.  As you have said in other threads (and I agree) SF's vote in the North has peaked + or - 10,000 votes here or there.  So for them to make inroads in the South (amongst other things) they need (ironically for an anti partition party) a Southern leader with no "military" credentials.  If I were an SF strategist I'd be saying "What possible benefit is there to wait until 2016/2017?  Sure Gerry can turn up at 2016 celebrations portraying himself as the grey haired elder statesman of Northern Republicanism, if he wants..."
i'd go with that. he has to go quickly and take angus with him
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on October 27, 2012, 06:03:13 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 27, 2012, 05:34:44 PM
i'd go with that. he has to go quickly and take angus with him

Nonsense, no matter what the MSM would have you believe, Adams is SF's number one asset north and south. The whole Party in the south is in the process of being reorganised and put on a more professional footing the fruits of which are only being to pay off - Adams has and is overseeing that. Most people don't appreciate how much of a shambles the organisation was in the south, so much so that they weren't able to capitalise and build on the 2002 election. They stagnated and reverted somewhat over the following five years and have only recently started to make progress again. You may talk about Doherty and Tobin all you like but at the end of the day they are still extremely wet behind the ears. A strong leader is needed to make the necessary changes while keeping all the conflicting lobbies at bay (urban-rural, socialist-nationalist-republican etc...) - Adams is the only man in the Party with the authority to do that and there'll be no challenge against him. He'll step down eventually but only when the Party core is strong enough to ensure it doesn't pull itself apart a la the Workers Party, PDs and Clann na Poblachta.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on November 06, 2012, 11:29:16 AM
Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly has called for the immediate release of Padraic Wilson, claiming his arrest is politically motivated.Mr Wilson, a senior republican, is in custody after being charged with offences in relation to the murder of Robert McCartney in 2005.

Mr Kelly, said the arrest was political policing by some PSNI members and was undermining confidence in the police.

"This has gone through republicanism like a bush fire," he said.

"I can tell you frankly that many, many people have been in touch, from other colleagues, very angry about the idea that someone who was crucial to bringing people along in the peace process and political process is now behind bars where he should not be."

Mr Kelly said that the media should also be concerned at the arrest because under this legislation reporters could be charged for talking to illegal organisations.

He said a protest was being planned, and rejected suggestions his call as a member of the policing board was political interference in policing.

The SDLP's west Belfast MLA Alex Attwood said the party was trying to influence the justice system.

"In previous years, Sinn Fein complained of 'political influence' over the courts and of 'political policing'," he said.

"Today, in a brazen public way, Sinn Fein are at the same. People campaigned, worked and struggled to change 'the old order of things', for now Sinn Fein to recreate it, a modern version of the failed past, a renewed attempt to pressure politically the due process of law."

The DUP's Lord Morrow said: "Sinn Fein's stance on this serious matter does nothing to take Northern Ireland forward into a normal society despite their protestations that this is their aim and objective.

"They cannot expect to endear themselves to the Unionist community or portray a society of equals if they continue to practice a separatist agenda which applies only to their own ideals."

The Traditional Unionist Voice assembly member Jim Allister said plans for a protest were "unacceptable".

"It is hard to imagine a situation anywhere else in the western world where a party of government would take to the streets to demand the release of someone accused of serious terrorist offences," he said.

"Not only that but Wilson continues to hold a senior post within the party."

Padraic Wilson, 53, was a key negotiator in the Maze Prison in the late 1990s. He is Sinn Fein's director of international affairs.

He has been charged with IRA membership and addressing a meeting to encourage support for the IRA, which he denies.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 06, 2012, 01:13:34 PM
PRESS RELEASE: Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams TD and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness MP MLA have written a joint letter to senior US political leaders, including Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, Congressman Peter King, who is Chair of the Congr
essional Friends of Ireland, and Richard Neal who is the ranking Democrat on the Friends of Ireland committee, and other senior figures, urging them to raise the case of Marian Price McGlinchey and to support her release.

Mr Adams, who will be in the US and Canada later this week, pointed out that: "Mrs Price McGlinchey has been held in virtual solitary confinement since her arrest in May 2011 and is very ill.

A recent report by a UN doctor has concluded that Mrs Price McGlinchey is 'unable to comprehend the allegations being made against her to a sufficient degree to inform her defence.'

"In a separate report earlier this year a consultant clinical
psychiatrist for the prison service concluded that it was 'highly
likely' that she 'will be unable to fully and effectively participate
in any upcoming legal proceedings due to the inherent level of stress
and demand of such proceedings.'"

The two Sinn Féin leaders have written to the senior political figures in the US seeking their support for her release and asking that they lobby the British and Irish governments.

In their letter Mr Adams and Mr McGuinness describe Marian Price
McGlinchey's imprisonment as "a serious case of injustice and denial of human rights and judicial rights in the North of Ireland.

"Marian Price McGlinchey has been held in virtual solitary confinement by the British Government since her arrest in May 2011. Sinn Féin is very concerned about the manner and conditions in which Mrs Price McGlinchey has been detained.

"We believe that her detention is unjust and runs contrary to the
principles of natural justice.

"She has been detained without trial on the basis of secret reports by British intelligence agencies. Everyone is entitled to due process and to a fair trial. Mrs Price
McGlinchey has been denied this, representing, in our view, a
serious breach of her human rights.

"For the most of this latest period of imprisonment Mrs Price Mc
Glinchey has been held in isolation, firstly at Maghaberry Male
Prison, in the hospital wing at Hydebank Women's Prison and
latterly, in a secure ward in a Belfast hospital.

"In all of these institutions her health has continued to deteriorate.
A number of doctors who have examined Mrs Price McGlinchey have confirmed that her mental health has suffered greatly and that she would be unable to participate meaningfully in a 'review' of her case...

"We believe very strongly that Marian Price McGlinchey should be
released. Her human rights have been breached. She has been denied justice and due process. She is seriously ill. Her detention
undermines the justice system and the political process. She clearly presents no threat to anyone. I am writing to ask that you use your considerable influence and raise this case and the release of Marian Price McGlinchey with the British and Irish governments.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 06, 2012, 03:50:00 PM
I have to say Niall O Donnghaile came across as a decent citizen in that documentary last night. Couple of lapses in judgement re. cadets etc. but overall seemed about 100 times better than the DUP dinosaurs of the past. The narrator seemed to offer criticism re. removal of his Republican pictures etc, whereas I thought it was a decent touch and in line with his earlier talk about mutual respect.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 06, 2012, 04:01:07 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 06, 2012, 03:50:00 PM
I have to say Niall O Donnghaile came across as a decent citizen in that documentary last night. Couple of lapses in judgement re. cadets etc. but overall seemed about 100 times better than the DUP dinosaurs of the past. The narrator seemed to offer criticism re. removal of his Republican pictures etc, whereas I thought it was a decent touch and in line with his earlier talk about mutual respect.
Yep, credit where it's due, and it was good to have someone a bit (or a lot) younger in such a role, especially given the year that it was - although the lapses in judgement were disappointing.

In the context of the 'DUP dinosaurs of the past', it's worth noting that the current Mayor, Gavin Robinson, is himself a vast improvement on a lot of his party colleagues.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on November 07, 2012, 06:22:36 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 06, 2012, 01:13:34 PM
PRESS RELEASE: Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams TD and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness MP MLA have written a joint letter to senior US political leaders, including Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, Congressman Peter King, who is Chair of the Congr
essional Friends of Ireland, and Richard Neal who is the ranking Democrat on the Friends of Ireland committee, and other senior figures, urging them to raise the case of Marian Price McGlinchey and to support her release.

Mr Adams, who will be in the US and Canada later this week, pointed out that: "Mrs Price McGlinchey has been held in virtual solitary confinement since her arrest in May 2011 and is very ill.

A recent report by a UN doctor has concluded that Mrs Price McGlinchey is 'unable to comprehend the allegations being made against her to a sufficient degree to inform her defence.'

"In a separate report earlier this year a consultant clinical
psychiatrist for the prison service concluded that it was 'highly
likely' that she 'will be unable to fully and effectively participate
in any upcoming legal proceedings due to the inherent level of stress
and demand of such proceedings.'"

The two Sinn Féin leaders have written to the senior political figures in the US seeking their support for her release and asking that they lobby the British and Irish governments.

In their letter Mr Adams and Mr McGuinness describe Marian Price
McGlinchey's imprisonment as "a serious case of injustice and denial of human rights and judicial rights in the North of Ireland.

"Marian Price McGlinchey has been held in virtual solitary confinement by the British Government since her arrest in May 2011. Sinn Féin is very concerned about the manner and conditions in which Mrs Price McGlinchey has been detained.

"We believe that her detention is unjust and runs contrary to the
principles of natural justice.

"She has been detained without trial on the basis of secret reports by British intelligence agencies. Everyone is entitled to due process and to a fair trial. Mrs Price
McGlinchey has been denied this, representing, in our view, a
serious breach of her human rights.

"For the most of this latest period of imprisonment Mrs Price Mc
Glinchey has been held in isolation, firstly at Maghaberry Male
Prison, in the hospital wing at Hydebank Women's Prison and
latterly, in a secure ward in a Belfast hospital.

"In all of these institutions her health has continued to deteriorate.
A number of doctors who have examined Mrs Price McGlinchey have confirmed that her mental health has suffered greatly and that she would be unable to participate meaningfully in a 'review' of her case...

"We believe very strongly that Marian Price McGlinchey should be
released. Her human rights have been breached. She has been denied justice and due process. She is seriously ill. Her detention
undermines the justice system and the political process. She clearly presents no threat to anyone. I am writing to ask that you use your considerable influence and raise this case and the release of Marian Price McGlinchey with the British and Irish governments.
So let me see.

On the very same day as the McGuinness was asked to stay way from the funeral of a Prison Officer at Maghaberry who had been murdered by Dissident Republicans, SF issues a Press Release in support of, ahem, a Dissident Republican imprisoned at Maghaberry.

Were they not concerned by Price's plight a week before? Could they not, out of sensitivity, have delayed the Press Release for a few days?

If nothing else, that would have permitted them to assess the results of the US Presidential Election, in case it needed re-addressing from Mrs Clinton to a future Republican Secretary of State?

Callous, calculating, cynical b**tards  >:(


P.S. What exactly do they mean by "virtual solitary confinement"? Surely it is either solitary confinement or it is not. Unless, of course, it might be that Price is/was for a period the only female Dissident prisoner in Maghaberry/Hydebank, and it would hardly have been acceptable to have her (ahem) banged up with a man...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaaboardmod3 on November 13, 2012, 10:59:46 AM
Wrong thread!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 13, 2012, 08:26:13 PM
Councillor Mickey Coogan quits Sinn Fein

By Martina Purdy
BBC NI Political Correspondent

The chairman of Down Council, Mickey Coogan, has dramatically quit Sinn Fein to become an independent councillor.

Mickey Coogan quit Sinn Fein because of "irreconcilable differences"
He will remain as council chairman as he is legally entitled to do. Sources say this has infuriated Sinn Fein.

In a statement, Sinn Fein's South Down chairperson, Ryan Morgan, said he was sad and disappointed that the Ballynahinch man had resigned.

Cllr Coogan told the BBC that he quit because of "irreconcilable differences" with individual members of Sinn Fein.

The 45 year old said that he felt undermined by some people when it came to projects he was working on in the Ballynahinch area.

Anti-social behaviour

"I have been working on projects - Sinn Fein encouraged my projects - but individuals tried to undermine them."

Mr Coogan has been working on various projects including the tackling of anti-social behaviour and fear of crime.

He has been involved in republican politics since he was a teenager and helped to form the first Sinn Fein branch in Ballynahinch in 1999.

He said Sinn Fein councillor Sean McPeake, council co-ordinator, and Chris Hazzard, MLA for South Down, met him yesterday in a bid to dissuade him.

He added he had no problem with any of his council colleagues and "great respect" for Mr Hazzard but he had made up his mind.

Mr Coogan said he had some issues in the past but had persevered. "This could have happened a few years ago," he said.

He also admitted being unhappy with the strategy employed by Sinn Fein in 2011 when Naomi Bailie was brought onto the ticket for the assembly election - although he added he has no personal issue with her.

'Unforgiving'

Mr Coogan said he intends to remain as an independent for the duration of his council term and then decide his future.

Asked if he would rejoin Sinn Fein, he said: "I don't think so - politics is unforgiving."

Mr Morgan said: "Mickey Coogan has served Sinn Fein since 2005 on council so I am disappointed he has decided to resign from the party.

"Despite offers from myself and other senior party colleagues to meet with Mr Coogan to discuss any difficulties, he has yet to give a substantial reason why he decided to resign."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20310706
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on November 16, 2012, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?

thats what we vote sf for. they need to keep at it. good to hear them call for the release of Marian Price though. thought they should have been a lot more vocal during the summer around parades and bonfires etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 11:41:46 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2012, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?

thats what we vote sf for. they need to keep at it. good to hear them call for the release of Marian Price though. thought they should have been a lot more vocal during the summer around parades and bonfires etc.
Fc*K Marian Price she is a dissident. What about proper representation .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 11:57:29 PM
Dissidents are human as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 12:45:02 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 11:41:46 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2012, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?

thats what we vote sf for. they need to keep at it. good to hear them call for the release of Marian Price though. thought they should have been a lot more vocal during the summer around parades and bonfires etc.
Fc*K Marian Price she is a dissident. What about proper representation .
Clown.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 17, 2012, 09:31:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 12:45:02 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 11:41:46 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2012, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?

thats what we vote sf for. they need to keep at it. good to hear them call for the release of Marian Price though. thought they should have been a lot more vocal during the summer around parades and bonfires etc.
Fc*K Marian Price she is a dissident. What about proper representation .
Clown.
Happy to be a clown but Ms Price wants to drag us back to war, and no one I know wants to go there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 17, 2012, 09:31:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 12:45:02 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 11:41:46 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2012, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?

thats what we vote sf for. they need to keep at it. good to hear them call for the release of Marian Price though. thought they should have been a lot more vocal during the summer around parades and bonfires etc.
Fc*K Marian Price she is a dissident. What about proper representation .
Clown.
Happy to be a clown but Ms Price wants to drag us back to war, and no one I know wants to go there.
You talk on one hand about decent representation and parity of esteem and on the other, show a total ignorance of learning from the past by supporting internment without trial. Glad you're happy being a clown because you're nothing more.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 17, 2012, 08:33:43 PM
Sunday Times/Behaviour & Attitudes poll  FG 30 -1, Lab 12 -2, FF 22 +6, SF 14 -4, Ind 19 nc, green 3 +1.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 17, 2012, 09:13:30 PM
Good to see your happy with FF doing well
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on November 17, 2012, 11:24:17 PM
What?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 12:05:47 AM
Inching towards a quarter of people in the 26 counties wanting to put back in power the party which bankrupted the place and surrendered sovereignty. Pathetic beyond belief! Shameful!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2012, 12:56:07 AM
QuoteInching towards a quarter of people in the 26 counties wanting to put back in power the party which bankrupted the place and surrendered sovereignty.

People always want an alternative to the government and the rest of the leftie looneys are of no interest for responsible people, so they may think FF have learned their lesson.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 01:11:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2012, 12:56:07 AM
QuoteInching towards a quarter of people in the 26 counties wanting to put back in power the party which bankrupted the place and surrendered sovereignty.

People always want an alternative to the government and the rest of the leftie looneys are of no interest for responsible people, so they may think FF have learned their lesson.

Justifying the unjustifiable. If it needs repeating, FF bankrupted the state and surrendered its sovereignty FFS!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on November 18, 2012, 01:46:29 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 17, 2012, 08:33:43 PM
Sunday Times/Behaviour & Attitudes poll  FG 30 -1, Lab 12 -2, FF 22 +6, SF 14 -4, Ind 19 nc, green 3 +1.

Not surprising
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 18, 2012, 09:58:40 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 12:05:47 AM
Inching towards a quarter of people in the 26 counties wanting to put back in power the party which bankrupted the place and surrendered sovereignty. Pathetic beyond belief! Shameful!
When you say 'pathetic' and 'shameful', are you referring to the voters, or the rest of the opposition who haven't managed to convince that they're a viable alternative?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 10:51:41 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 18, 2012, 09:58:40 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 12:05:47 AM
Inching towards a quarter of people in the 26 counties wanting to put back in power the party which bankrupted the place and surrendered sovereignty. Pathetic beyond belief! Shameful!
When you say 'pathetic' and 'shameful', are you referring to the voters, or the rest of the opposition who haven't managed to convince that they're a viable alternative?

The voters, Maguire. The gombeen voters. See reply to armaghniac.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 18, 2012, 11:01:09 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 10:51:41 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 18, 2012, 09:58:40 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 12:05:47 AM
Inching towards a quarter of people in the 26 counties wanting to put back in power the party which bankrupted the place and surrendered sovereignty. Pathetic beyond belief! Shameful!
When you say 'pathetic' and 'shameful', are you referring to the voters, or the rest of the opposition who haven't managed to convince that they're a viable alternative?

The voters, Maguire. The gombeen voters. See reply to armaghniac.
Yes, I had gathered that. I was being facetious.
At the same time, this represents a massive failure by SF to convince the public that they're the alternative to an unpopular government.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on November 18, 2012, 02:05:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 18, 2012, 11:01:09 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 10:51:41 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 18, 2012, 09:58:40 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 12:05:47 AM
Inching towards a quarter of people in the 26 counties wanting to put back in power the party which bankrupted the place and surrendered sovereignty. Pathetic beyond belief! Shameful!
When you say 'pathetic' and 'shameful', are you referring to the voters, or the rest of the opposition who haven't managed to convince that they're a viable alternative?

The voters, Maguire. The gombeen voters. See reply to armaghniac.
Yes, I had gathered that. I was being facetious.
At the same time, this represents a massive failure by SF to convince the public that they're the alternative to an unpopular government.
not often i agree with you maguire especially regarding sinn fein. while i'm a shinner myself i'm also a realist. gerry has to go as leader, he just has'nt been able to land any blows on two parties that are 'hanging for banging' (fine fail) ffs a senior sf td caught biffo playin golf with criminal bankers! and the electorate arent hearing that. you can forget about labour they are finished. gerry is caring and decent and that isnt what is needed. sinn fein need to tear into the gombeens and highlight the crap thats going on the hospitals closing, the failure to address the banking problem, the pensions.. etc fianna fail cant do it they put most of the shite there in the first place. we need a paisley in essence someone to thump the table and do the never never never stuff and thats not gerry
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2012, 05:14:19 PM
A realistic SFer.
Ulick and Nally please note this lads comments and stop throwing ye're toys put of the pram.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on November 19, 2012, 02:51:12 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 18, 2012, 12:05:47 AM
Inching towards a quarter of people in the 26 counties wanting to put back in power the party which bankrupted the place and surrendered sovereignty. Pathetic beyond belief! Shameful!
i can understand why people might be tempted to try FF again. Enda has been no great shakes and SF havent really done anything  in the south since gerry went down there. o doherty might have been a better choice but i really dont know  what is behind their policies.
having said that sf are in power in stormont and the north is in a mess
with no direction whatsoever.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 19, 2012, 05:32:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 18, 2012, 02:05:05 PM
gerry is caring and decent and that isnt what is needed.
;D
Brilliant! Yes, he's practically Mother Teresa. Nothing to do with competence - it's just that he's all heart.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 19, 2012, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: naka on November 19, 2012, 02:51:12 PM
i can understand why people might be tempted to try FF again.

Yeah it's not as if they bankrupted the state and surrendered it's sovereignty or anything bad like that I suppose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 19, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
I can't understand this move against Jim Wells.

MLAs reject attempt to exclude DUP's Jim Wells
By Gareth Gordon
BBC NI political correspondent

The Assembly has rejected an attempt to exclude the DUP MLA Jim Wells from the chamber for a week.

The sanction had been suggested by a Stormont committee after Mr Wells refused to apologise for comments he made to Mary McArdle, former adviser to the Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin.

Ms McArdle was convicted for her part in the 1984 murder of magistrate's daughter Mary Travers.

The motion was defeated by 51 votes to 49.

Mr Wells made the comments last year when the controversial appointment of Ms McArdle was in the headlines.

Ms McArdle had been convicted for her part in the shooting of the young school teacher.

Mary Travers, 22, was shot as she left Mass at Derryvolgie, Belfast, with her father, magistrate Tom Travers. Ms McArdle was sentenced to a life term and was released under the Good Friday Agreement.

She has since left the adviser post and been replaced by Jarlath Kearney, a former journalist who has worked as a Sinn Fein policy adviser.

In two separate encounters last summer Mr Wells made his views known face-to-face and vehemently to the minister and her then adviser.

Kieran McCarthy, deputy chair of the standards and privileges committee, said Ms Ni Chuilin claimed Mr Wells behaved in an aggressive and threatening manner telling her 'You needn't think you're going to bring that murderer to South Down'.

Ms McArdle alleged that Mr Wells had confronted her later on the same month - she said that Mr Wells had passed her on the first floor of the corridor in parliament buildings and had said to her, "there's the murderer herself".

Mr Wells admits calling Ms McArdle a monster adviser but denies calling her a murderer.

Last week the former assembly standards commissioner Tom Frawley decided Mr Wells had not shown the women enough respect.


So he called a convicted murder a murderer, apparently - is that it?
And Catriona Ruane is accusing him of being anti-Catholic, anti-Nationalist and a misogynist - am I missing something here? I wouldn't consider Wells to be a very likeable individual, but I can't understand the fuss over this - or Ruane's response.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 20, 2012, 02:28:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 17, 2012, 09:31:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 12:45:02 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 11:41:46 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2012, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?

thats what we vote sf for. they need to keep at it. good to hear them call for the release of Marian Price though. thought they should have been a lot more vocal during the summer around parades and bonfires etc.
Fc*K Marian Price she is a dissident. What about proper representation .
Clown.
Happy to be a clown but Ms Price wants to drag us back to war, and no one I know wants to go there.
You talk on one hand about decent representation and parity of esteem and on the other, show a total ignorance of learning from the past by supporting internment without trial. Glad you're happy being a clown because you're nothing more.
This is not internment, she new what she was doing by consorting with dissidents therefore breaking the terms of her licence which were negotiated as part of the GFA by Sinn Fein. I would look in the mirror before calling anyone names.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 20, 2012, 02:33:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
I can't understand this move against Jim Wells.

MLAs reject attempt to exclude DUP's Jim Wells
By Gareth Gordon
BBC NI political correspondent

The Assembly has rejected an attempt to exclude the DUP MLA Jim Wells from the chamber for a week.

The sanction had been suggested by a Stormont committee after Mr Wells refused to apologise for comments he made to Mary McArdle, former adviser to the Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin.

Ms McArdle was convicted for her part in the 1984 murder of magistrate's daughter Mary Travers.

The motion was defeated by 51 votes to 49.

Mr Wells made the comments last year when the controversial appointment of Ms McArdle was in the headlines.

Ms McArdle had been convicted for her part in the shooting of the young school teacher.

Mary Travers, 22, was shot as she left Mass at Derryvolgie, Belfast, with her father, magistrate Tom Travers. Ms McArdle was sentenced to a life term and was released under the Good Friday Agreement.

She has since left the adviser post and been replaced by Jarlath Kearney, a former journalist who has worked as a Sinn Fein policy adviser.

In two separate encounters last summer Mr Wells made his views known face-to-face and vehemently to the minister and her then adviser.

Kieran McCarthy, deputy chair of the standards and privileges committee, said Ms Ni Chuilin claimed Mr Wells behaved in an aggressive and threatening manner telling her 'You needn't think you're going to bring that murderer to South Down'.

Ms McArdle alleged that Mr Wells had confronted her later on the same month - she said that Mr Wells had passed her on the first floor of the corridor in parliament buildings and had said to her, "there's the murderer herself".

Mr Wells admits calling Ms McArdle a monster adviser but denies calling her a murderer.

Last week the former assembly standards commissioner Tom Frawley decided Mr Wells had not shown the women enough respect.


So he called a convicted murder a murderer, apparently - is that it?
And Catriona Ruane is accusing him of being anti-Catholic, anti-Nationalist and a misogynist - am I missing something here? I wouldn't consider Wells to be a very likeable individual, but I can't understand the fuss over this - or Ruane's response.
I think Ruane's discription would be fairly on the money. Jim is very much on the Nelson wing of the DUP. He performs well when talking on health, but Killkeel is not a bastion of reconcilliation. That said the outcome of this debate was predictable and I suspect it was more about point scoring than an apology. It just shows you the level of politics in the North. All the issues we have with the economy and MLA's still waste time on shit like this, marches etc. Plus Ca Change I believe the French would say. (I can't manage the dangly bit on the C pefore the French Grammar Police take isssue.)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 20, 2012, 02:49:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 20, 2012, 02:28:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 17, 2012, 09:31:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 12:45:02 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 11:41:46 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2012, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?

thats what we vote sf for. they need to keep at it. good to hear them call for the release of Marian Price though. thought they should have been a lot more vocal during the summer around parades and bonfires etc.
Fc*K Marian Price she is a dissident. What about proper representation .
Clown.
Happy to be a clown but Ms Price wants to drag us back to war, and no one I know wants to go there.
You talk on one hand about decent representation and parity of esteem and on the other, show a total ignorance of learning from the past by supporting internment without trial. Glad you're happy being a clown because you're nothing more.
This is not internment, she new what she was doing by consorting with dissidents therefore breaking the terms of her licence which were negotiated as part of the GFA by Sinn Fein. I would look in the mirror before calling anyone names.

She was never released on licence, which makes your claim (and that of your ally, the former British SoS) that she broke the terms of "her licence" a bit odd. She was granted a so-called "royal pardon" which was conveniently "lost or destroyed". The only occurrence of this in recent history in fact.

It is clear cut internment. With an attitude like yours, you'd fit right in at the NIO. Amazing inability to learn from the past and shocking for someone who claims to want "parity of esteem" etc to be so willing to make excuses for a british minister interning people in Ireland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17071818 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17071818)
Former prison chaplain Monsignor Raymond Murray said Mr Paterson's decision had echoes of the past for nationalists.
"This is a form of internment," said Monsignor Murray, who was prison chaplain in Armagh for almost 20 years. "I am just shocked that the secretary of state wouldn't be aware of how seriously nationalist people look on internment. We thought it had all ended and here it is coming under a form of revocation, revoking a license. He would have to explain to us and explain the process of law as regards Marian Price. In any way has she broken the law? That would have to be provided but it is not provided by shoving her into prison on a pretence in an unjust way."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on November 20, 2012, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 20, 2012, 02:33:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
I can't understand this move against Jim Wells.

MLAs reject attempt to exclude DUP's Jim Wells
By Gareth Gordon
BBC NI political correspondent

The Assembly has rejected an attempt to exclude the DUP MLA Jim Wells from the chamber for a week.

The sanction had been suggested by a Stormont committee after Mr Wells refused to apologise for comments he made to Mary McArdle, former adviser to the Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin.

Ms McArdle was convicted for her part in the 1984 murder of magistrate's daughter Mary Travers.

The motion was defeated by 51 votes to 49.

Mr Wells made the comments last year when the controversial appointment of Ms McArdle was in the headlines.

Ms McArdle had been convicted for her part in the shooting of the young school teacher.

Mary Travers, 22, was shot as she left Mass at Derryvolgie, Belfast, with her father, magistrate Tom Travers. Ms McArdle was sentenced to a life term and was released under the Good Friday Agreement.

She has since left the adviser post and been replaced by Jarlath Kearney, a former journalist who has worked as a Sinn Fein policy adviser.

In two separate encounters last summer Mr Wells made his views known face-to-face and vehemently to the minister and her then adviser.

Kieran McCarthy, deputy chair of the standards and privileges committee, said Ms Ni Chuilin claimed Mr Wells behaved in an aggressive and threatening manner telling her 'You needn't think you're going to bring that murderer to South Down'.

Ms McArdle alleged that Mr Wells had confronted her later on the same month - she said that Mr Wells had passed her on the first floor of the corridor in parliament buildings and had said to her, "there's the murderer herself".

Mr Wells admits calling Ms McArdle a monster adviser but denies calling her a murderer.

Last week the former assembly standards commissioner Tom Frawley decided Mr Wells had not shown the women enough respect.


So he called a convicted murder a murderer, apparently - is that it?
And Catriona Ruane is accusing him of being anti-Catholic, anti-Nationalist and a misogynist - am I missing something here? I wouldn't consider Wells to be a very likeable individual, but I can't understand the fuss over this - or Ruane's response.
I think Ruane's discription would be fairly on the money. Jim is very much on the Nelson wing of the DUP. He performs well when talking on health, but Killkeel is not a bastion of reconcilliation. That said the outcome of this debate was predictable and I suspect it was more about point scoring than an apology. It just shows you the level of politics in the North. All the issues we have with the economy and MLA's still waste time on shit like this, marches etc. Plus Ca Change I believe the French would say. (I can't manage the dangly bit on the C pefore the French Grammar Police take isssue.)

Shurely you mean a "cedille" or "cedilla" ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on November 20, 2012, 03:22:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
I can't understand this move against Jim Wells.

MLAs reject attempt to exclude DUP's Jim Wells
By Gareth Gordon
BBC NI political correspondent

The Assembly has rejected an attempt to exclude the DUP MLA Jim Wells from the chamber for a week.

The sanction had been suggested by a Stormont committee after Mr Wells refused to apologise for comments he made to Mary McArdle, former adviser to the Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin.

Ms McArdle was convicted for her part in the 1984 murder of magistrate's daughter Mary Travers.

The motion was defeated by 51 votes to 49.

Mr Wells made the comments last year when the controversial appointment of Ms McArdle was in the headlines.

Ms McArdle had been convicted for her part in the shooting of the young school teacher.

Mary Travers, 22, was shot as she left Mass at Derryvolgie, Belfast, with her father, magistrate Tom Travers. Ms McArdle was sentenced to a life term and was released under the Good Friday Agreement.

She has since left the adviser post and been replaced by Jarlath Kearney, a former journalist who has worked as a Sinn Fein policy adviser.

In two separate encounters last summer Mr Wells made his views known face-to-face and vehemently to the minister and her then adviser.

Kieran McCarthy, deputy chair of the standards and privileges committee, said Ms Ni Chuilin claimed Mr Wells behaved in an aggressive and threatening manner telling her 'You needn't think you're going to bring that murderer to South Down'.

Ms McArdle alleged that Mr Wells had confronted her later on the same month - she said that Mr Wells had passed her on the first floor of the corridor in parliament buildings and had said to her, "there's the murderer herself".

Mr Wells admits calling Ms McArdle a monster adviser but denies calling her a murderer.
Last week the former assembly standards commissioner Tom Frawley decided Mr Wells had not shown the women enough respect.


So he called a convicted murder a murderer, apparently - is that it?
And Catriona Ruane is accusing him of being anti-Catholic, anti-Nationalist and a misogynist - am I missing something here? I wouldn't consider Wells to be a very likeable individual, but I can't understand the fuss over this - or Ruane's response.

Must be something "unparliamentary" about it or he wouldn't have denied calling her a murderer?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cold tea on November 20, 2012, 03:30:41 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 20, 2012, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 20, 2012, 02:33:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
I can't understand this move against Jim Wells.

MLAs reject attempt to exclude DUP's Jim Wells
By Gareth Gordon
BBC NI political correspondent

The Assembly has rejected an attempt to exclude the DUP MLA Jim Wells from the chamber for a week.

The sanction had been suggested by a Stormont committee after Mr Wells refused to apologise for comments he made to Mary McArdle, former adviser to the Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin.

Ms McArdle was convicted for her part in the 1984 murder of magistrate's daughter Mary Travers.

The motion was defeated by 51 votes to 49.

Mr Wells made the comments last year when the controversial appointment of Ms McArdle was in the headlines.

Ms McArdle had been convicted for her part in the shooting of the young school teacher.

Mary Travers, 22, was shot as she left Mass at Derryvolgie, Belfast, with her father, magistrate Tom Travers. Ms McArdle was sentenced to a life term and was released under the Good Friday Agreement.

She has since left the adviser post and been replaced by Jarlath Kearney, a former journalist who has worked as a Sinn Fein policy adviser.

In two separate encounters last summer Mr Wells made his views known face-to-face and vehemently to the minister and her then adviser.

Kieran McCarthy, deputy chair of the standards and privileges committee, said Ms Ni Chuilin claimed Mr Wells behaved in an aggressive and threatening manner telling her 'You needn't think you're going to bring that murderer to South Down'.

Ms McArdle alleged that Mr Wells had confronted her later on the same month - she said that Mr Wells had passed her on the first floor of the corridor in parliament buildings and had said to her, "there's the murderer herself".

Mr Wells admits calling Ms McArdle a monster adviser but denies calling her a murderer.

Last week the former assembly standards commissioner Tom Frawley decided Mr Wells had not shown the women enough respect.


So he called a convicted murder a murderer, apparently - is that it?
And Catriona Ruane is accusing him of being anti-Catholic, anti-Nationalist and a misogynist - am I missing something here? I wouldn't consider Wells to be a very likeable individual, but I can't understand the fuss over this - or Ruane's response.
I think Ruane's discription would be fairly on the money. Jim is very much on the Nelson wing of the DUP. He performs well when talking on health, but Killkeel is not a bastion of reconcilliation. That said the outcome of this debate was predictable and I suspect it was more about point scoring than an apology. It just shows you the level of politics in the North. All the issues we have with the economy and MLA's still waste time on shit like this, marches etc. Plus Ca Change I believe the French would say. (I can't manage the dangly bit on the C pefore the French Grammar Police take isssue.)

Shurely you mean a "cedille" or "cedilla" ;)

Ah the old spelling mistakes by design as well as the constant exclusion of any punctuation!!!  Redner and take kid! 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on November 20, 2012, 03:34:34 PM
Will someone else tell him or will I?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2012, 07:55:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 20, 2012, 02:33:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
I can't understand this move against Jim Wells.

MLAs reject attempt to exclude DUP's Jim Wells
By Gareth Gordon
BBC NI political correspondent

The Assembly has rejected an attempt to exclude the DUP MLA Jim Wells from the chamber for a week.

The sanction had been suggested by a Stormont committee after Mr Wells refused to apologise for comments he made to Mary McArdle, former adviser to the Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin.

Ms McArdle was convicted for her part in the 1984 murder of magistrate's daughter Mary Travers.

The motion was defeated by 51 votes to 49.

Mr Wells made the comments last year when the controversial appointment of Ms McArdle was in the headlines.

Ms McArdle had been convicted for her part in the shooting of the young school teacher.

Mary Travers, 22, was shot as she left Mass at Derryvolgie, Belfast, with her father, magistrate Tom Travers. Ms McArdle was sentenced to a life term and was released under the Good Friday Agreement.

She has since left the adviser post and been replaced by Jarlath Kearney, a former journalist who has worked as a Sinn Fein policy adviser.

In two separate encounters last summer Mr Wells made his views known face-to-face and vehemently to the minister and her then adviser.

Kieran McCarthy, deputy chair of the standards and privileges committee, said Ms Ni Chuilin claimed Mr Wells behaved in an aggressive and threatening manner telling her 'You needn't think you're going to bring that murderer to South Down'.

Ms McArdle alleged that Mr Wells had confronted her later on the same month - she said that Mr Wells had passed her on the first floor of the corridor in parliament buildings and had said to her, "there's the murderer herself".

Mr Wells admits calling Ms McArdle a monster adviser but denies calling her a murderer.

Last week the former assembly standards commissioner Tom Frawley decided Mr Wells had not shown the women enough respect.


So he called a convicted murder a murderer, apparently - is that it?
And Catriona Ruane is accusing him of being anti-Catholic, anti-Nationalist and a misogynist - am I missing something here? I wouldn't consider Wells to be a very likeable individual, but I can't understand the fuss over this - or Ruane's response.
I think Ruane's discription would be fairly on the money. Jim is very much on the Nelson wing of the DUP. He performs well when talking on health, but Killkeel is not a bastion of reconcilliation. That said the outcome of this debate was predictable and I suspect it was more about point scoring than an apology. It just shows you the level of politics in the North. All the issues we have with the economy and MLA's still waste time on shit like this, marches etc. Plus Ca Change I believe the French would say. (I can't manage the dangly bit on the C pefore the French Grammar Police take isssue.)
On what basis? What did he say here that could be construed as anti-Catholic, anti-Nationalist or misogynistic?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: fitzroyalty on November 20, 2012, 08:45:26 PM
Why did mr wells not make similar comments to male members of SF with similar convictions?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2012, 09:06:04 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 20, 2012, 08:45:26 PM
Why did mr wells not make similar comments to male members of SF with similar convictions?
What SPADs in particular are you referring to?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 21, 2012, 11:02:03 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 20, 2012, 02:49:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 20, 2012, 02:28:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 17, 2012, 09:31:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 12:45:02 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 11:41:46 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2012, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?

thats what we vote sf for. they need to keep at it. good to hear them call for the release of Marian Price though. thought they should have been a lot more vocal during the summer around parades and bonfires etc.
Fc*K Marian Price she is a dissident. What about proper representation .
Clown.
Happy to be a clown but Ms Price wants to drag us back to war, and no one I know wants to go there.
You talk on one hand about decent representation and parity of esteem and on the other, show a total ignorance of learning from the past by supporting internment without trial. Glad you're happy being a clown because you're nothing more.
This is not internment, she new what she was doing by consorting with dissidents therefore breaking the terms of her licence which were negotiated as part of the GFA by Sinn Fein. I would look in the mirror before calling anyone names.

She was never released on licence, which makes your claim (and that of your ally, the former British SoS) that she broke the terms of "her licence" a bit odd. She was granted a scaled "royal pardon" which was conveniently "lost or destroyed". The only occurrence of this in recent history in fact.

It is clear cut internment. With an attitude like yours, you'd fit right in at the NIO. Amazing inability to learn from the past and shocking for someone who claims to want "parity of esteem" etc to be so willing to make excuses for a British minister interning people in Ireland.

http://www.BBC.co.UK/news/uk-northern-ireland-17071818 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17071818)
Former prison chaplain Monsignor Raymond Murray said Mr Paterson's decision had echoes of the past for nationalists.
"This is a form of internment," said Monsignor Murray, who was prison chaplain in Armagh for almost 20 years. "I am just shocked that the secretary of state wouldn't be aware of how seriously nationalist people look on internment. We thought it had all ended and here it is coming under a form of revocation, revoking a license. He would have to explain to us and explain the process of law as regards Marian Price. In any way has she broken the law? That would have to be provided but it is not provided by shoving her into prison on a pretence in an unjust way."
Brilliant!! A Republican accepting a Royal pardon, whatever happened to her Republican principles. whatever way you dress it up Sinn Fein need to cut the cord with these dissidents and put them where they belong...in jail, time to move on. We were promised a push towards  unity this will not be achieved by given succour to Price and her likes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 21, 2012, 11:04:20 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 20, 2012, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 20, 2012, 02:33:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
I can't understand this move against Jim Wells.

MLAs reject attempt to exclude DUP's Jim Wells
By Gareth Gordon
BBC NI political correspondent

The Assembly has rejected an attempt to exclude the DUP MLA Jim Wells from the chamber for a week.

The sanction had been suggested by a Stormont committee after Mr Wells refused to apologise for comments he made to Mary McArdle, former adviser to the Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin.

Ms McArdle was convicted for her part in the 1984 murder of magistrate's daughter Mary Travers.

The motion was defeated by 51 votes to 49.

Mr Wells made the comments last year when the controversial appointment of Ms McArdle was in the headlines.

Ms McArdle had been convicted for her part in the shooting of the young school teacher.

Mary Travers, 22, was shot as she left Mass at Derryvolgie, Belfast, with her father, magistrate Tom Travers. Ms McArdle was sentenced to a life term and was released under the Good Friday Agreement.

She has since left the adviser post and been replaced by Jarlath Kearney, a former journalist who has worked as a Sinn Fein policy adviser.

In two separate encounters last summer Mr Wells made his views known face-to-face and vehemently to the minister and her then adviser.

Kieran McCarthy, deputy chair of the standards and privileges committee, said Ms Ni Chuilin claimed Mr Wells behaved in an aggressive and threatening manner telling her 'You needn't think you're going to bring that murderer to South Down'.

Ms McArdle alleged that Mr Wells had confronted her later on the same month - she said that Mr Wells had passed her on the first floor of the corridor in parliament buildings and had said to her, "there's the murderer herself".

Mr Wells admits calling Ms McArdle a monster adviser but denies calling her a murderer.

Last week the former assembly standards commissioner Tom Frawley decided Mr Wells had not shown the women enough respect.


So he called a convicted murder a murderer, apparently - is that it?
And Catriona Ruane is accusing him of being anti-Catholic, anti-Nationalist and a misogynist - am I missing something here? I wouldn't consider Wells to be a very likeable individual, but I can't understand the fuss over this - or Ruane's response.
I think Ruane's discription would be fairly on the money. Jim is very much on the Nelson wing of the DUP. He performs well when talking on health, but Killkeel is not a bastion of reconcilliation. That said the outcome of this debate was predictable and I suspect it was more about point scoring than an apology. It just shows you the level of politics in the North. All the issues we have with the economy and MLA's still waste time on shit like this, marches etc. Plus Ca Change I believe the French would say. (I can't manage the dangly bit on the C pefore the French Grammar Police take isssue.)

Shurely you mean a "cedille" or "cedilla" ;)
Thanks for that French isn't my thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 21, 2012, 11:17:57 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 21, 2012, 11:02:03 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 20, 2012, 02:49:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 20, 2012, 02:28:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 17, 2012, 09:31:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 12:45:02 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 11:41:46 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2012, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 16, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2012, 12:29:11 PM
Seriously worried about the lack of a strong nationalist/republican party, shinners and the stoops are Peter's lapdogs. Not one inch of parity of esteem has followed from the GFA and no sign of a UI in the next 100 years...well done guys.

What exactly are you doing to gain "parity of esteem" or advance the cause of UI?

thats what we vote sf for. they need to keep at it. good to hear them call for the release of Marian Price though. thought they should have been a lot more vocal during the summer around parades and bonfires etc.
Fc*K Marian Price she is a dissident. What about proper representation .
Clown.
Happy to be a clown but Ms Price wants to drag us back to war, and no one I know wants to go there.
You talk on one hand about decent representation and parity of esteem and on the other, show a total ignorance of learning from the past by supporting internment without trial. Glad you're happy being a clown because you're nothing more.
This is not internment, she new what she was doing by consorting with dissidents therefore breaking the terms of her licence which were negotiated as part of the GFA by Sinn Fein. I would look in the mirror before calling anyone names.

She was never released on licence, which makes your claim (and that of your ally, the former British SoS) that she broke the terms of "her licence" a bit odd. She was granted a scaled "royal pardon" which was conveniently "lost or destroyed". The only occurrence of this in recent history in fact.

It is clear cut internment. With an attitude like yours, you'd fit right in at the NIO. Amazing inability to learn from the past and shocking for someone who claims to want "parity of esteem" etc to be so willing to make excuses for a British minister interning people in Ireland.

http://www.BBC.co.UK/news/uk-northern-ireland-17071818 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17071818)
Former prison chaplain Monsignor Raymond Murray said Mr Paterson's decision had echoes of the past for nationalists.
"This is a form of internment," said Monsignor Murray, who was prison chaplain in Armagh for almost 20 years. "I am just shocked that the secretary of state wouldn't be aware of how seriously nationalist people look on internment. We thought it had all ended and here it is coming under a form of revocation, revoking a license. He would have to explain to us and explain the process of law as regards Marian Price. In any way has she broken the law? That would have to be provided but it is not provided by shoving her into prison on a pretence in an unjust way."
Brilliant!! A Republican accepting a Royal pardon, whatever happened to her Republican principles. whatever way you dress it up Sinn Fein need to cut the cord with these dissidents and put them where they belong...in jail, time to move on. We were promised a push towards  unity this will not be achieved by given succour to Price and her likes.
So she should have stayed in jail on a point of principle because her release was called a "royal" pardon? What age are you if that's the best you can come up with as a retort to my points?

I repeat...you claim she broke the terms of her early release licence. She never received such a licence. She was RELEASED. She has not committed any crime since, therefor her current situation is simply a case of INTERNMENT no matter how much you like to deny it and no matter how often you obediently trot out the lies of a Tory secretary of state. Your continued support for the policy of internment is staggering. Those who do not learn the lessons of the past are destined to repeat it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 21, 2012, 12:01:59 PM
Murphy hits out at abuse of legal process in Price, McGeough and Corey cases

Speaking in London last night, Sinn Fein MP Conor Murphy hit out at the behaviour of the British government in the continuing imprisonment of Marian Price, Martin Corey and Gerry McGeough.


...
Conor Murphy was speaking at a public meeting in Westminster, on a panel which included Fianna Fáil TD Eamon O'Cúiv, British Labour MP John McDonnell, former Armagh prison chaplain Fr Raymond Murray, and prisoners campaigner Moya St Leger.



Addressing the Price and Corey cases, Mr Murphy said:

"These two people should be released immediately. Their detention without trial and due process is unjust and runs contrary to natural justice. They are detained on the basis of secret allegations by British intelligence agencies, which they are unable to challenge, contest or refute. Everyone is entitled to due process and to a fair trial Marian Price and Martin Corey are being denied this. This represents a serious breach of their human rights and their continued imprisonment undermines the justice system. We are against the use of 'revocation of licences' as a substitute for due process.

On the continued imprisonment of Gerry McGeough, Conor Murphy said:

"Sinn Féin believes that Gerry McGeough should not have been arrested, should not therefore be in prison and should be released immediately. We have made this position clear publicly on many occasions since Gerry's arrest, including during the course of many meetings with both the British and Irish governments. Several of our MLAs have visited the prisoners in Maghaberry many times over the course of the past two years.

"They have met with Gerry McGeough and discussed his predicament. They have repeated our position to him personally. Indeed, during these visits Gerry has expressed his appreciation for the efforts Sinn Féin has made on his behalf. Most recently Sinn Féin tabled motions at a number of Councils, north and south, calling for his release".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on November 21, 2012, 09:32:57 PM
gerry totally ineffectual today in the dail as eejit kenny continues to make a laughing stock out of the nation in front of the world meejah. jeez what does he want kenny is putting his head on the block and all he has to do is pull the lever! o caolin would have took him apart..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on November 22, 2012, 11:50:18 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 21, 2012, 12:01:59 PM
Murphy hits out at abuse of legal process blah blah blah
Are there two Conor Murphys in SF?

Or is the one blethering about "abuse of legal process" (above) the same individual as this bigot?

Alan Lennon case: Protestant job applicant to receive £150,000

The man discriminated against by the former Sinn Fein minister Conor Murphy for a top job at Northern Ireland Water is to receive £150,000 in damages.

Alan Lennon won a tribunal case against Stormont's Department for Regional Development (DRD) in June.

It ruled he had been overlooked for the post because he was a Protestant.

Mr Lennon has now agreed a compensation settlement which is equivalent to three years salary for the chair of NIW, the job he had applied for.

He said: "I took the case primarily to challenge what I believe to be serious flaws in the public appointments system and the level of compensation agreed marks the seriousness of what occurred.

"I hope that this will result in a more transparent and equitable public appointments process."

Deciding Mr Lennon was discriminated against, the tribunal believed Mr Murphy - DRD minister at the time and now MP for Newry and Armagh - also broke the code of practice for appointments.

In March 2011, Mr Murphy appointed a Catholic as chairman, Sean Hogan, ahead of four others shortlisted after interview, all of them Protestants.

According to the tribunal, Mr Hogan was selected because "he was not from a Protestant background and because he was known to the minister and his (then Sinn Fein) ministerial colleagues", Michelle Gildernew and Caitriona Ruane, who were consulted about the appointment.

Mr Murphy strongly disputes the tribunal's findings which he claimed branded him as "sectarian".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20451694


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on November 23, 2012, 12:50:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 21, 2012, 11:02:03 AM

Brilliant!! A Republican accepting a Royal pardon, whatever happened to her Republican principles. whatever way you dress it up Sinn Fein need to cut the cord with these dissidents and put them where they belong...in jail, time to move on.
Now to be fair to the murderous oul bitch, Price is hardly alone amongst Republicans in ditching her principles when it suits...


Published on Saturday 13 October 2012
SF back 'Lough is in UK' pipe lobby

A SINN Féin delegation including Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness and MEP Martina Anderson has lent support to a Moville campaign group, which wants the whole of Lough Foyle to remain as British as Finchley unless border negotiations can secure protective clauses to prevent a sewerage pipeline being extended hundreds of metres into the waterway.
(Read more at: http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/lifestyle/entertainment/very-l-derry/sf-back-lough-is-in-uk-pipe-lobby-1-4325467 )

Since ye couldn't make it up, isn't it great that with this bunch of hypocrites, we don't have to!  ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: fitzroyalty on November 23, 2012, 10:41:04 AM
Clutching at straws there to be fair EG. Did you even read your own article?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 07:41:47 PM
Shinners always yapping about other parties and politicians wasting money, tax payer suffering blah blah, not a word on the expected £400k bill for the tax payer from the discrimination tribunal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on November 23, 2012, 09:20:18 PM
connor murphy has said he didnt know what religion mr lennon was. all the lennons i know are catholics.. i dont know how deciding to give the job to any one of the candidates and not to all of them could have prevented this type of scenario
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 10:56:37 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 07:41:47 PM
Shinners always yapping about other parties and politicians wasting money, tax payer suffering blah blah, not a word on the expected £400k bill for the tax payer from the discrimination tribunal.

Always yapping yourself ffs change the record you gurn
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 11:10:17 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 10:56:37 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 07:41:47 PM
Shinners always yapping about other parties and politicians wasting money, tax payer suffering blah blah, not a word on the expected £400k bill for the tax payer from the discrimination tribunal.

Always yapping yourself ffs change the record you gurn

Didnt think you would want to talk about this episode, hardly surprising. You are quick enough with the cut and paste with SF statements any other time, loyal little lackey that you are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 11:10:17 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 10:56:37 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 07:41:47 PM
Shinners always yapping about other parties and politicians wasting money, tax payer suffering blah blah, not a word on the expected £400k bill for the tax payer from the discrimination tribunal.

Always yapping yourself ffs change the record you gurn

Didnt think you would want to talk about this episode, hardly surprising. You are quick enough with the cut and paste with SF statements any other time, loyal little lackey that you are.

Sure when you get an answer you can't respond to,you run off like the rest of you cronies do.Away and get them Shinners to change the weather as it's very cold.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 11:10:17 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 10:56:37 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 07:41:47 PM
Shinners always yapping about other parties and politicians wasting money, tax payer suffering blah blah, not a word on the expected £400k bill for the tax payer from the discrimination tribunal.

Always yapping yourself ffs change the record you gurn

Didnt think you would want to talk about this episode, hardly surprising. You are quick enough with the cut and paste with SF statements any other time, loyal little lackey that you are.

Sure when you get an answer you can't respond to,you run off like the rest of you cronies do.Away and get them Shinners to change the weather as it's very cold.

Yea that was a real show stopper from you there. So it wasn't Sinn Feins fault the tax payer has a £400,000 tab ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on November 23, 2012, 11:26:53 PM
DRD have been legally advised to appeal. If you are so upset about the £150k maybe you should write to the UUP DRD Minister Danny Kennedy and ask him why he is defying the legal advice. Obviously nothing to do with playing Party politics with taxpayers money?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 11:31:31 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 11:10:17 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 10:56:37 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2012, 07:41:47 PM
Shinners always yapping about other parties and politicians wasting money, tax payer suffering blah blah, not a word on the expected £400k bill for the tax payer from the discrimination tribunal.

Always yapping yourself ffs change the record you gurn

Saff don't let Martin Og hear you complaining about SF costing the tax payer £400k or you will get expelled

Didnt think you would want to talk about this episode, hardly surprising. You are quick enough with the cut and paste with SF statements any other time, loyal little lackey that you are.

Sure when you get an answer you can't respond to,you run off like the rest of you cronies do.Away and get them Shinners to change the weather as it's very cold.

Yea that was a real show stopper from you there. So it wasn't Sinn Feins fault the tax payer has a £400,000 tab ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 23, 2012, 11:38:23 PM
Quote from: Ulick on November 23, 2012, 11:26:53 PM
DRD have been legally advised to appeal. If you are so upset about the £150k maybe you should write to the UUP DRD Minister Danny Kennedy and ask him why he is defying the legal advice. Obviously nothing to do with playing Party politics with taxpayers money?

Ffs it's saffrongael that's posting,he is under orders from Martin Og who wouldn't know what DRD is
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AM
I don't believe for one minute that Conor Murphy is sectarian. I do believe he and his Department messed up the selection process which
gave the opportunity to others to portray him as such. I don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence. However one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.

In relation to Dissident Republican Prisoners, SF need to take a step back, many in the broader Catholic community do not like the ease with which they take up the causes of these people. Lets face it the most high profile victims of all this dissident activity has been to GAA members, one an Irish Speaker, and a Catholic police officer. A bit like the DUP and the OO time to stop riding two horses.

AS evidenced at the DUP conference, and in various opinion polls many Catholics now support the union. SF's populist stance on many issues and it's reluctance to abandon left wing ideology makes victory in any border poll unlikely. A growing catholic middle class has stopped voting or is drifting towards alliance. Parity of esteem is as far away as ever. If the SDLP had proper united leadership and some clear ideas they would wipe the floor with SF, unforunately they don't. All the Republican rhetoric, and abusive comments from the SF element on this board can not hide the fact that SF's policies on unity are in tatters. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 26, 2012, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AM
I don't believe for one minute that Conor Murphy is sectarian. I do believe he and his Department messed up the selection process which
gave the opportunity to others to portray him as such. I don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence. However one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.

In relation to Dissident Republican Prisoners, SF need to take a step back, many in the broader Catholic community do not like the ease with which they take up the causes of these people. Lets face it the most high profile victims of all this dissident activity has been to GAA members, one an Irish Speaker, and a Catholic police officer. A bit like the DUP and the OO time to stop riding two horses.

AS evidenced at the DUP conference, and in various opinion polls many Catholics now support the union. SF's populist stance on many issues and it's reluctance to abandon left wing ideology makes victory in any border poll unlikely. A growing catholic middle class has stopped voting or is drifting towards alliance. Parity of esteem is as far away as ever. If the SDLP had proper united leadership and some clear ideas they would wipe the floor with SF, unforunately they don't. All the Republican rhetoric, and abusive comments from the SF element on this board can not hide the fact that SF's policies on unity are in tatters.

The broad nationalist community would also be highly uncomfortable with internment, too. Something you are clearly not all that bothered about if your recent comments on this thread are anything to go by.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on November 26, 2012, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AM
I don't believe for one minute that Conor Murphy is sectarian. I do believe he and his Department messed up the selection process which
gave the opportunity to others to portray him as such. I don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence. However one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.

In relation to Dissident Republican Prisoners, SF need to take a step back, many in the broader Catholic community do not like the ease with which they take up the causes of these people. Lets face it the most high profile victims of all this dissident activity has been to GAA members, one an Irish Speaker, and a Catholic police officer. A bit like the DUP and the OO time to stop riding two horses.

AS evidenced at the DUP conference, and in various opinion polls many Catholics now support the union. SF's populist stance on many issues and it's reluctance to abandon left wing ideology makes victory in any border poll unlikely. A growing catholic middle class has stopped voting or is drifting towards alliance. Parity of esteem is as far away as ever. If the SDLP had proper united leadership and some clear ideas they would wipe the floor with SF, unforunately they don't. All the Republican rhetoric, and abusive comments from the SF element on this board can not hide the fact that SF's policies on unity are in tatters.

'As evidenced at the DUP conference'.. was peter delivering the results of a border poll or offering his opinion?. could you please provide evidence of the various opinion polls that many catholics now support the union.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 26, 2012, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AM
I don't believe for one minute that Conor Murphy is sectarian. I do believe he and his Department messed up the selection process which
gave the opportunity to others to portray him as such. I don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence. However one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.

In relation to Dissident Republican Prisoners, SF need to take a step back, many in the broader Catholic community do not like the ease with which they take up the causes of these people. Lets face it the most high profile victims of all this dissident activity has been to GAA members, one an Irish Speaker, and a Catholic police officer. A bit like the DUP and the OO time to stop riding two horses.

AS evidenced at the DUP conference, and in various opinion polls many Catholics now support the union. SF's populist stance on many issues and it's reluctance to abandon left wing ideology makes victory in any border poll unlikely. A growing catholic middle class has stopped voting or is drifting towards alliance. Parity of esteem is as far away as ever. If the SDLP had proper united leadership and some clear ideas they would wipe the floor with SF, unforunately they don't. All the Republican rhetoric, and abusive comments from the SF element on this board can not hide the fact that SF's policies on unity are in tatters.

The broad nationalist community would also be highly uncomfortable with internment, too. Something you are clearly not all that bothered about if your recent comments on this thread are anything to go by.
It isn't internment, and these anti agreement dissidents must pay for their support for those Martin McGuinness referred to as traitors.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 26, 2012, 01:33:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 26, 2012, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AM
I don't believe for one minute that Conor Murphy is sectarian. I do believe he and his Department messed up the selection process which
gave the opportunity to others to portray him as such. I don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence. However one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.

In relation to Dissident Republican Prisoners, SF need to take a step back, many in the broader Catholic community do not like the ease with which they take up the causes of these people. Lets face it the most high profile victims of all this dissident activity has been to GAA members, one an Irish Speaker, and a Catholic police officer. A bit like the DUP and the OO time to stop riding two horses.

AS evidenced at the DUP conference, and in various opinion polls many Catholics now support the union. SF's populist stance on many issues and it's reluctance to abandon left wing ideology makes victory in any border poll unlikely. A growing catholic middle class has stopped voting or is drifting towards alliance. Parity of esteem is as far away as ever. If the SDLP had proper united leadership and some clear ideas they would wipe the floor with SF, unforunately they don't. All the Republican rhetoric, and abusive comments from the SF element on this board can not hide the fact that SF's policies on unity are in tatters.

The broad nationalist community would also be highly uncomfortable with internment, too. Something you are clearly not all that bothered about if your recent comments on this thread are anything to go by.
It isn't internment, and these anti agreement dissidents must pay for their support for those Martin McGuinness referred to as traitors.
Please explain to me how Marion Price is not being interned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 01:41:17 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 26, 2012, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AM
I don't believe for one minute that Conor Murphy is sectarian. I do believe he and his Department messed up the selection process which
gave the opportunity to others to portray him as such. I don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence. However one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.

In relation to Dissident Republican Prisoners, SF need to take a step back, many in the broader Catholic community do not like the ease with which they take up the causes of these people. Lets face it the most high profile victims of all this dissident activity has been to GAA members, one an Irish Speaker, and a Catholic police officer. A bit like the DUP and the OO time to stop riding two horses.

AS evidenced at the DUP conference, and in various opinion polls many Catholics now support the union. SF's populist stance on many issues and it's reluctance to abandon left wing ideology makes victory in any border poll unlikely. A growing catholic middle class has stopped voting or is drifting towards alliance. Parity of esteem is as far away as ever. If the SDLP had proper united leadership and some clear ideas they would wipe the floor with SF, unforunately they don't. All the Republican rhetoric, and abusive comments from the SF element on this board can not hide the fact that SF's policies on unity are in tatters.

'As evidenced at the DUP conference'.. was peter delivering the results of a border poll or offering his opinion?. could you please provide evidence of the various opinion polls that many catholics now support the union.
OK Robinson was quoting polls, they have been widely publicized and whilst not definitive it is fair to say they are fairly indicative of where we are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 26, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Quotecould you please provide evidence of the various opinion polls that many catholics now support the union.

You only have to look as posters on this board, most of whom come from a "Catholic" background in NI terms.

But for a more systematic survey
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2010/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on November 26, 2012, 04:08:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 26, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Quotecould you please provide evidence of the various opinion polls that many catholics now support the union.

You only have to look as posters on this board, most of whom come from a "Catholic" background in NI terms.

But for a more systematic survey
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2010/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html

a survey of 1205 people. thats me convinced, cheers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 26, 2012, 04:46:41 PM
Quotea survey of 1205 people. thats me convinced, cheers.

Good, 1205 is actually a rather large sample for a properly structured survey.

Of course with such surveys, it is largely a case of what exact question you ask.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on November 27, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AMI don't believe for one minute that Conor Murphy is sectarian.
"Don't believe" or "don't want to believe"?

You see, the facts are that Murphy chose the sole RC applicant, over 4 other Protestant applicants, at least one of whom was obviously better qualified.

And when an independent, qualified and experienced Fair Employment Tribunal carefully examined the situation, they refuted eg Murphy's assertion that he was unaware of the overlooked Candidate's religious background, and pointed out that the successful applicant was personally well-known to Murphy and senior SF colleagues.

On the basis of this and other factors, they determined unequivocally that Murphy's actions were motived by by religious/ sectarian considerations. And I think it not coincidental that despite Murphy's protests that he is not sectarian etc, neither he nor his Party has done anything to get this verdict overturned, nor demonstrate why it was incorrect.

Yet even in the face of this clear and unambiguous evidence, you remain prepared to give Murphy a "bye-ball".

This contrasts starkly with your comments on the "Dissidents" thread, where you disgracefully linked by implication the family of the murdered Prison Officer and OO member, Mr. Black, to Loyalist terrorists etc, despite confessing that you "... have no specfic evidence that the Black family have had interaction with loyalist paramilitary elements etc"
[I note that you were careful to use the word "specific", when you might have excluded it completely  ::)]

So why the contrasting standards of proof?

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AMI do believe he and his Department messed up the selection process which gave the opportunity to others to portray him as such. I don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence. However one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.
Ah, he "messed up", and his Department, too. Poor, misguided lambs.
Why, you could almost call Murphy "unfortunate", were it not for the inconvenient fact that the Tribunal unambiguously found that his was a case of bad faith (i.e. sectarianism), rather than simple incompetence...

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AMI don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence.
If you need evidence, why don't you read the Tribunal's findings? They had all the evidence they needed to conclude that Murphy's actions were motivated by sectarianism.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AMHowever one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.
Danny Kennedy didn't force Conor Murphy to act as he did. Nor is it his responsibility to absolve Murphy from such claims.

Quite simply, if Murphy doesn't want to look like a bigot, he should stop behaving like one.  >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 27, 2012, 01:15:40 PM
QuoteQuite simply, if Murphy doesn't want to look like a bigot, he should stop behaving like one.

Good advice for anyone, EG. Maybe take it to heart?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on November 27, 2012, 02:30:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 27, 2012, 01:15:40 PM
QuoteQuite simply, if Murphy doesn't want to look like a bigot, he should stop behaving like one.

Good advice for anyone, EG. Maybe take it to heart?
I certainly try my best [bold, not least since I wouldn't like to be found a bigot by a qualified organisation such as an Employment Tribunal.

A petty keyboard warrior, sniping from the touchline, is another matter, mind...  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on November 27, 2012, 02:44:35 PM
interesting wee spack between shinners sdlp and dup over the cuts,
the guys try to play real politics every so often but the tribal tendencies always seem to get in the way.

reality is the cuts will be voted through because we need the block grant because of the bloated public sector and welfare state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on November 27, 2012, 02:57:38 PM
Quote from: naka on November 27, 2012, 02:44:35 PM
interesting wee spack between shinners sdlp and dup over the cuts,
the guys try to play real politics every so often but the tribal tendencies always seem to get in the way.

reality is the cuts will be voted through because we need the block grant because of the bloated public sector and welfare state.

they could always try cutting the amount spent on unelected quangos.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on November 27, 2012, 02:59:34 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 27, 2012, 02:57:38 PM
they could always try cutting the amount spent on unelected quangos.

AKA the peace dividend ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 27, 2012, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 27, 2012, 02:57:38 PM
Quote from: naka on November 27, 2012, 02:44:35 PM
interesting wee spack between shinners sdlp and dup over the cuts,
the guys try to play real politics every so often but the tribal tendencies always seem to get in the way.

reality is the cuts will be voted through because we need the block grant because of the bloated public sector and welfare state.

they could always try cutting the amount spent on unelected quangos.
Or the amount spent on 161 Press Officers at Stormont.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on November 27, 2012, 05:36:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 27, 2012, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 27, 2012, 02:57:38 PM
Quote from: naka on November 27, 2012, 02:44:35 PM
interesting wee spack between shinners sdlp and dup over the cuts,
the guys try to play real politics every so often but the tribal tendencies always seem to get in the way.

reality is the cuts will be voted through because we need the block grant because of the bloated public sector and welfare state.

they could always try cutting the amount spent on unelected quangos.
Or the amount spent on 161 Press Officers at Stormont.

maybe save another few quid by halving the number of mla's
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 29, 2012, 10:59:25 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 27, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AMI don't believe for one minute that Conor Murphy is sectarian.
"Don't believe" or "don't want to believe"?

You see, the facts are that Murphy chose the sole RC applicant, over 4 other Protestant applicants, at least one of whom was obviously better qualified.

And when an independent, qualified and experienced Fair Employment Tribunal carefully examined the situation, they refuted eg Murphy's assertion that he was unaware of the overlooked Candidate's religious background, and pointed out that the successful applicant was personally well-known to Murphy and senior SF colleagues.

On the basis of this and other factors, they determined unequivocally that Murphy's actions were motived by by religious/ sectarian considerations. And I think it not coincidental that despite Murphy's protests that he is not sectarian etc, neither he nor his Party has done anything to get this verdict overturned, nor demonstrate why it was incorrect.

Yet even in the face of this clear and unambiguous evidence, you remain prepared to give Murphy a "bye-ball".

This contrasts starkly with your comments on the "Dissidents" thread, where you disgracefully linked by implication the family of the murdered Prison Officer and OO member, Mr. Black, to Loyalist terrorists etc, despite confessing that you "... have no specfic evidence that the Black family have had interaction with loyalist paramilitary elements etc"
[I note that you were careful to use the word "specific", when you might have excluded it completely  ::)]

So why the contrasting standards of proof?

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AMI do believe he and his Department messed up the selection process which gave the opportunity to others to portray him as such. I don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence. However one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.
Ah, he "messed up", and his Department, too. Poor, misguided lambs.
Why, you could almost call Murphy "unfortunate", were it not for the inconvenient fact that the Tribunal unambiguously found that his was a case of bad faith (i.e. sectarianism), rather than simple incompetence...

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AMI don't know about the possibility of grounds for appeal without seeing the evidence.
If you need evidence, why don't you read the Tribunal's findings? They had all the evidence they needed to conclude that Murphy's actions were motivated by sectarianism.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 10:52:44 AMHowever one thing is for sure Danny Kennedy wasn't going to miss an opportunity to make it look like Murphy is a bigot.
Danny Kennedy didn't force Conor Murphy to act as he did. Nor is it his responsibility to absolve Murphy from such claims.

Quite simply, if Murphy doesn't want to look like a bigot, he should stop behaving like one.  >:(
EG I don't believe it because I know the man. I am not saying his actions or decisions did not result in this man being discriminated against, but that is a different thing to someone being sectarian. Interview processes are by their nature discriminatory, that's how you arrive at a decision. But that process must be fair. In this case it would appear that the process was not fair. But that is a far cry from the man being a sectarian bigot. You could look a lot closer to your own roots for examples of that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 29, 2012, 11:10:05 AM
Whilst NI is part of the UK we will never really have control over our own economy. Most Unionist turn a blind eye to the fact that the UK government enacts and will continue to act in the interests of the "mainland". Hence we have an approach in Europe to CAP reform which will adversely affect farmers here. Our enconomy and interests lie more closely with the ROI. We need to stop relying on handouts and start accepting responsibility for our own affairs. That does not equate to a United Ireland, it could be a federal arrangement with ties still to Britain akin to Jersey or the IoM. At the moment we are like the married child living in our own home but mum and dad still underwrite the bills. Unfortunately all parties including SF and the SDLP are happy to continue with this, to their shame. Time to grow up and earn our own living.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 29, 2012, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 29, 2012, 11:10:05 AM
. At the moment we are like the married child living in our own home but mum and dad still underwrite the bills. Unfortunately all parties including SF and the SDLP are happy to continue with this, to their shame. Time to grow up and earn our own living.

That would mean they would have to make responsible and difficult decisions .....
and sure we couldn't be having that now could we?
They might end up like Labour and Fine Gael then  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 29, 2012, 12:24:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 26, 2012, 01:33:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 01:29:52 PM
It isn't internment, and these anti agreement dissidents must pay for their support for those Martin McGuinness referred to as traitors.
Please explain to me how Marion Price is not being interned.

Take your time...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 29, 2012, 01:14:31 PM
Ó Snodaigh demands release of republican prisonersNovember 29, 2012

Sinn Féin TD Aengus Ó Snodaigh has called on the Eamon Gilmore to demand of the British Government an end of the internment without trial of two Irish citizens in the Six Counties and to honour the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement and Weston Park Agreement and release two other Irish citizens being held in Maghaberry Prison in the North.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh was part of a cross party delegation which visited a number of republican prisoners in Maghaberry Prison and Marion Price who is currently being detained in the City Hospital. The delegation also met with the North's Minister for Justice David Ford.

Both Marion Price and Martin Corey are being held without charge, sentence or release dates.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh said;

"It is the judicial norms in a democratic society that those arrested would be charged or released but the British government has once again, in its dealings with Ireland, violated the basic rights of Irish citizens.

"I call on the British Government to act now and release both Marion Price and Martin Corey. Eamon Gilmore should contact the British Government directly to make this demand on behalf of the Irish Government."

In relation to two of the other prisoners whom the delegation met, Gerry McGeough and Gary Adams, Ó Snodaigh called for their immediate release and reminded the British and Irish government that both qualify for release under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement and Weston Park. One of the men is seriously ill having had a 7th stent inserted in his heart only this week.

Ó Snodaigh said;

"Failure to release Gerry McGeough and Gary Adams is a breach of commitment made during the peace process by both governments and they should be released without any further delay.

"That these men are in jail, away from their families and friends without any release date, is feeding anti-peace process sentiment in some quarters and is an insult to those who endorsed the Good Friday Agreement 14 years ago." ENDS
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 29, 2012, 06:02:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 29, 2012, 12:24:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 26, 2012, 01:33:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 01:29:52 PM
It isn't internment, and these anti agreement dissidents must pay for their support for those Martin McGuinness referred to as traitors.
Please explain to me how Marion Price is not being interned.

Take your time...
I don't need to explain, it's a fact. But sure you will twist it to suit anyway. If it was so clear cut the courts would have let her out, you know those courts that Sinn Fein now support, with the crowns on the coat of arms.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 29, 2012, 06:31:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 29, 2012, 06:02:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 29, 2012, 12:24:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 26, 2012, 01:33:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 01:29:52 PM
It isn't internment, and these anti agreement dissidents must pay for their support for those Martin McGuinness referred to as traitors.
Please explain to me how Marion Price is not being interned.

Take your time...
I don't need to explain, it's a fact. But sure you will twist it to suit anyway. If it was so clear cut the courts would have let her out, you know those courts that Sinn Fein now support, with the crowns on the coat of arms.
If someone is held in prison without crime or trial, it is internment. Go on, just explain to me how Marian Price is not being interned. Less copping out and just explain the detail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 30, 2012, 09:18:26 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 29, 2012, 11:43:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 29, 2012, 06:02:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 29, 2012, 12:24:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 26, 2012, 01:33:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2012, 01:29:52 PM
It isn't internment, and these anti agreement dissidents must pay for their support for those Martin McGuinness referred to as traitors.
Please explain to me how Marion Price is not being interned.

Take your time...
I don't need to explain, it's a fact.
It is? Enlighten me please.
There is obviously not going to be agreement here on Price. The point I was making which has become lost in all of this is that SF cannot expect to attract middleclass and more moderate support if they continue to champion dissident causes. If Price is being interned then let her challenge it in the courts. As I said the self same Royal Courts of Justice SF now support.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 30, 2012, 09:40:21 AM
Another cop out.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 30, 2012, 09:18:26 AM
SF cannot expect to attract middleclass and more moderate support if they continue to champion dissident causes.

I'd be more concerned if SF didn't speak out about the internment without trial of an innocent woman..

You have repeatedly stated that Marian Price is not interned. I, and now hardstation, are simply asking you to explain how her situation cannot be termed as internment without trial. Have the courage of your convictions and back up your claim with some sort of rationale, instead of resorting to "we won't agree anyway" and "let her go to court", ffs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on November 30, 2012, 10:58:05 AM
not a shinner but have to agree that Price and corey have been removed from the streets  which should be construed as internment by the back door.
we shouldnt lambast other regimes and allow this to happen in a supposedly mature democracy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 30, 2012, 11:42:57 AM
Quote from: naka on November 30, 2012, 10:58:05 AM
not a shinner but have to agree that Price and corey have been removed from the streets  which should be construed as internment by the back door.
we shouldnt lambast other regimes and allow this to happen in a supposedly mature democracy

100% right naka,I have no love for Marion Price and she has a deep hatred of Sinn Fein but we must always stand up and speak out against what is wrong,and this very ill woman is being interned and should be released immediately .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on November 30, 2012, 12:06:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 30, 2012, 11:42:57 AM
Quote from: naka on November 30, 2012, 10:58:05 AM
not a shinner but have to agree that Price and corey have been removed from the streets  which should be construed as internment by the back door.
we shouldnt lambast other regimes and allow this to happen in a supposedly mature democracy

100% right naka,I have no love for Marion Price and she has a deep hatred of Sinn Fein but we must always stand up and speak out against what is wrong,and this very ill woman is being interned and should be released immediately .

You say you have no love for Marion Price as she has a deep hatred of Sinn Fein. I guarantee ye, ye listen to and sing the song 'Bring Them Home.' Marion has never bent a knee through all these years, I wonder if she was caught with an arm would you still support her status as a POW. I doubt it..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 30, 2012, 12:15:23 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 30, 2012, 12:06:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 30, 2012, 11:42:57 AM
Quote from: naka on November 30, 2012, 10:58:05 AM
not a shinner but have to agree that Price and corey have been removed from the streets  which should be construed as internment by the back door.
we shouldnt lambast other regimes and allow this to happen in a supposedly mature democracy

100% right naka,I have no love for Marion Price and she has a deep hatred of Sinn Fein but we must always stand up and speak out against what is wrong,and this very ill woman is being interned and should be released immediately .

You say you have no love for Marion Price as she has a deep hatred of Sinn Fein. I guarantee ye, ye listen to and sing the song 'Bring Them Home.' Marion has never bent a knee through all these years, I wonder if she was caught with an arm would you still support her status as a POW. I doubt it..

Sorry I didn't say I had no love for her because she has a deep hatred for SF,yes I supported her and her sister when they were on hunger strike in the 70's and I still support her rights now,also i never said she bent a knee so what are you raving about.You don't me to doubt anything as I guarantee I have stood in more protests in support of Marion Price than you could very dream off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 30, 2012, 02:54:18 PM
Why aren't these " internments" being challenged in the Courts?
Can they not go straight to the Human Rights Court?
Hope they aren't  still stuck in "Putiry corner" refusing to recognise the Court ?
Does that "Habeus Corpus" thing still not apply in the 6 Cos??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on November 30, 2012, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 30, 2012, 02:54:18 PM
Why aren't these " internments" being challenged in the Courts?
Can they not go straight to the Human Rights Court?
Hope they aren't  still stuck in "Putiry corner" refusing to recognise the Court ?
Does that "Habeus Corpus" thing still not apply in the 6 Cos??

martin corey was freed on licence in 1992 but was recalled to prison in April 2010 on the basis of closed material. there was a ruing that his human rights had been breached by keeping him in jail but secretary of state villiers is challenging this and he remains in prison, all based on securocrat "closed material".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 02, 2012, 08:04:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 30, 2012, 02:54:18 PM
Why aren't these " internments" being challenged in the Courts?
Can they not go straight to the Human Rights Court?
Hope they aren't  still stuck in "Putiry corner" refusing to recognise the Court ?
Does that "Habeus Corpus" thing still not apply in the 6 Cos??
Exactly if it is illegal then those royal courts of justice, supported by SF would free them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 02, 2012, 10:16:36 PM
Another cop out  ::) Are you a mouthpiece for everything that British Secs of States do or is it just internment that you support?

Please stop yellowing out apples. Just explain your reasoning for your belief that Marian Price is not being interned. If it went to court and you were the judge, how would you dismuss the case that she is being interned? Back up your view with a reason and stop copping out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.

You are copping out. You have been repeatedly asked to explain your reasoning and you keep waffling about letting courts decide. Forget about courts for a second. You offered your own PERSONAL opinion that Marion Price is not being interned. I am simply asking you to explain why YOU believe this to be the case. I'm not asking you what Marion Price thinks or what she should do about it. So, putting it as simply as possible, in an effort to get you to finally answer the question:

WHY do YOU think her situation cannot be termed as internment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on December 03, 2012, 10:09:48 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.

ffs Sinn Fein are not pandering to any dissidents,MMG has been very strong along with many others in condemning every thing they do and telling them to do one,but that doesn't mean you stand by when there is an injustice being committed by interning people.That has been the problem in the past people who have buried their heads in the sand to cosy up to the Brits. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on December 03, 2012, 10:33:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.

You are copping out. You have been repeatedly asked to explain your reasoning and you keep waffling about letting courts decide. Forget about courts for a second. You offered your own PERSONAL opinion that Marion Price is not being interned. I am simply asking you to explain why YOU believe this to be the case. I'm not asking you what Marion Price thinks or what she should do about it. So, putting it as simply as possible, in an effort to get you to finally answer the question:

WHY do YOU think her situation cannot be termed as internment?

On the day of judgement, when the souls of the just are summoned to appear before the gates if Heaven, just as God is opening his mouth to proclaim their eternal salvation*, a wee Tyrone fella will interrupt him: "never mind that for a minute ... Applesisapples - when are you going to answer my question?"

(*Disclaimer: there is no evidence that such an event is likely ever to take place or that, if it does, Nally Stand, Applesisapples or myself are likely to be present.)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.

You are copping out. You have been repeatedly asked to explain your reasoning and you keep waffling about letting courts decide. Forget about courts for a second. You offered your own PERSONAL opinion that Marion Price is not being interned. I am simply asking you to explain why YOU believe this to be the case. I'm not asking you what Marion Price thinks or what she should do about it. So, putting it as simply as possible, in an effort to get you to finally answer the question:

WHY do YOU think her situation cannot be termed as internment?
And it is your opinion that she is interned, test it in the courts, you can't get away from this in a civilised society. I don't understand why you are so upset with my opinion, as I said take it to court.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 12:02:30 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 03, 2012, 10:09:48 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.

ffs Sinn Fein are not pandering to any dissidents,MMG has been very strong along with many others in condemning every thing they do and telling them to do one,but that doesn't mean you stand by when there is an injustice being committed by interning people.That has been the problem in the past people who have buried their heads in the sand to cosy up to the Brits.
See my reply to Nally.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 12:13:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.

You are copping out. You have been repeatedly asked to explain your reasoning and you keep waffling about letting courts decide. Forget about courts for a second. You offered your own PERSONAL opinion that Marion Price is not being interned. I am simply asking you to explain why YOU believe this to be the case. I'm not asking you what Marion Price thinks or what she should do about it. So, putting it as simply as possible, in an effort to get you to finally answer the question:

WHY do YOU think her situation cannot be termed as internment?
And it is your opinion that she is interned, test it in the courts, you can't get away from this in a civilised society. I don't understand why you are so upset with my opinion, as I said take it to court.

Your avoidance of the question is fantastical at this stage!!

I think she is interned. My reason for my opinion is that she is held in prison without crime or trial and has never had an early release licence which could have been breached. I am asking you to provide YOUR reason for thinking she is not being interned.

Stop copping out with nonsense about court cases. In your little court case, imagine you were the judge, you would obviously say she is not being interned...what would your reasons be? You said she is not being interned, I just want to know why you believe so. It's really not a complicated question.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 12:13:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.

You are copping out. You have been repeatedly asked to explain your reasoning and you keep waffling about letting courts decide. Forget about courts for a second. You offered your own PERSONAL opinion that Marion Price is not being interned. I am simply asking you to explain why YOU believe this to be the case. I'm not asking you what Marion Price thinks or what she should do about it. So, putting it as simply as possible, in an effort to get you to finally answer the question:

WHY do YOU think her situation cannot be termed as internment?
And it is your opinion that she is interned, test it in the courts, you can't get away from this in a civilised society. I don't understand why you are so upset with my opinion, as I said take it to court.

Your avoidance of the question is fantastical at this stage!!

I think she is interned. My reason for my opinion is that she is held in prison without crime or trial and has never had an early release licence which could have been breached. I am asking you to provide YOUR reason for thinking she is not being interned.

Stop copping out with nonsense about court cases. In your little court case, imagine you were the judge, you would obviously say she is not being interned...what would your reasons be? You said she is not being interned, I just want to know why you believe so. It's really not a complicated question.
Nally this is getting tiresome. I haver stated repeatedly that we live in a democratic society and there is no internmnet statute on the books. Therefore if Ms Price feels she is being illegally held the place to go is court, the self same courts that you and your SF colleagues are pledged to uphold along with the rule of law...simple really.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 01:45:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 12:13:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.

You are copping out. You have been repeatedly asked to explain your reasoning and you keep waffling about letting courts decide. Forget about courts for a second. You offered your own PERSONAL opinion that Marion Price is not being interned. I am simply asking you to explain why YOU believe this to be the case. I'm not asking you what Marion Price thinks or what she should do about it. So, putting it as simply as possible, in an effort to get you to finally answer the question:

WHY do YOU think her situation cannot be termed as internment?
And it is your opinion that she is interned, test it in the courts, you can't get away from this in a civilised society. I don't understand why you are so upset with my opinion, as I said take it to court.

Your avoidance of the question is fantastical at this stage!!

I think she is interned. My reason for my opinion is that she is held in prison without crime or trial and has never had an early release licence which could have been breached. I am asking you to provide YOUR reason for thinking she is not being interned.

Stop copping out with nonsense about court cases. In your little court case, imagine you were the judge, you would obviously say she is not being interned...what would your reasons be? You said she is not being interned, I just want to know why you believe so. It's really not a complicated question.
Nally this is getting tiresome. I haver stated repeatedly that we live in a democratic society and there is no internmnet statute on the books. Therefore if Ms Price feels she is being illegally held the place to go is court, the self same courts that you and your SF colleagues are pledged to uphold along with the rule of law...simple really.

You better believe it's getting tiresome. Never mind what is on the books or not...collusion was never on the books but it happened. There is also nothing on the books for royal pardons "going missing" either but that hasn't stopped her being thrown in jail without crime or trial, so what make her case any different from internment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 04:55:25 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 01:45:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 12:13:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
I'm not copping out. It is quite simple if she is being detained illegally let the courts decide, that's what we are meant to do in a democracy. SF though are continuing to pander to the dissidents and as a result they are turning voters off. You can't be half in or out of Government.

You are copping out. You have been repeatedly asked to explain your reasoning and you keep waffling about letting courts decide. Forget about courts for a second. You offered your own PERSONAL opinion that Marion Price is not being interned. I am simply asking you to explain why YOU believe this to be the case. I'm not asking you what Marion Price thinks or what she should do about it. So, putting it as simply as possible, in an effort to get you to finally answer the question:

WHY do YOU think her situation cannot be termed as internment?
And it is your opinion that she is interned, test it in the courts, you can't get away from this in a civilised society. I don't understand why you are so upset with my opinion, as I said take it to court.

Your avoidance of the question is fantastical at this stage!!

I think she is interned. My reason for my opinion is that she is held in prison without crime or trial and has never had an early release licence which could have been breached. I am asking you to provide YOUR reason for thinking she is not being interned.

Stop copping out with nonsense about court cases. In your little court case, imagine you were the judge, you would obviously say she is not being interned...what would your reasons be? You said she is not being interned, I just want to know why you believe so. It's really not a complicated question.
Nally this is getting tiresome. I haver stated repeatedly that we live in a democratic society and there is no internmnet statute on the books. Therefore if Ms Price feels she is being illegally held the place to go is court, the self same courts that you and your SF colleagues are pledged to uphold along with the rule of law...simple really.

You better believe it's getting tiresome. Never mind what is on the books or not...collusion was never on the books but it happened. There is also nothing on the books for royal pardons "going missing" either but that hasn't stopped her being thrown in jail without crime or trial, so what make her case any different from internment?
So take it to court gurning on here won't get her out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 04:56:47 PM
It's up to her to take it to court, my question is why you believe she would lose. What, in your view, differentiates her case from a case of internment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Puckoon on December 03, 2012, 05:00:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 04:56:47 PM
It's up to her to take it to court, my question is why you believe she would lose.

If she would win (i.e. if it is internment) - why wouldn't (or hasn't, I haven't looked) she taken it to court?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 04:56:47 PM
It's up to her to take it to court, my question is why you believe she would lose. What, in your view, differentiates her case from a case of internment?
I didn't sat that she would lose, but it would sort the matter out one way or the other. I am simply making the point that we have accepted the rule in the six counties. But it seems to me that it is a conditional acceptance (by both sides if the DUP's summer letter is anything to go by). To be honest people like Marion Price with their support for dissidents leave SF open to criticism and accusations that they are still anchored to the past. They need to become more embracing if they wish to get the 40% of catholics happy to remain in the UK is to be persuaded.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 05:14:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
I didn't sat that she would lose, but it would sort the matter out one way or the other.
Well you said she is not being interned, so that would lead me to believe you do think she would lose. Look apples, you clearly said she is not being interned. I'm just really interested to hear your reasons for thinking this, but you don't seem to have a single reason at all.

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
To be honest people like Marion Price with their support for dissidents leave SF open to criticism and accusations that they are still anchored to the past.
Again, I think people would be more worried about SF not taking issue with internment without trial.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on December 03, 2012, 05:55:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 05:14:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
I didn't sat that she would lose, but it would sort the matter out one way or the other.
Well you said she is not being interned, so that would lead me to believe you do think she would lose. Look apples, you clearly said she is not being interned. I'm just really interested to hear your reasons for thinking this, but you don't seem to have a single reason at all.

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
To be honest people like Marion Price with their support for dissidents leave SF open to criticism and accusations that they are still anchored to the past.
Again, I think people would be more worried about SF not taking issue with internment without trial.

You are maybe over estimating how important people see Marion Prices internment, various political parties are using it for their own ends. I have seen various "protests" about her internment about the Falls Road and have never seen more than a dozen people at them. People obviously don't feel that strongly about it one way or the other.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on December 03, 2012, 06:57:06 PM
How did her "Royal pardon" get lost?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 03, 2012, 08:13:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 03, 2012, 05:55:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 05:14:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
I didn't sat that she would lose, but it would sort the matter out one way or the other.
Well you said she is not being interned, so that would lead me to believe you do think she would lose. Look apples, you clearly said she is not being interned. I'm just really interested to hear your reasons for thinking this, but you don't seem to have a single reason at all.

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
To be honest people like Marion Price with their support for dissidents leave SF open to criticism and accusations that they are still anchored to the past.
Again, I think people would be more worried about SF not taking issue with internment without trial.

You are maybe over estimating how important people see Marion Prices internment, various political parties are using it for their own ends. I have seen various "protests" about her internment about the Falls Road and have never seen more than a dozen people at them. People obviously don't feel that strongly about it one way or the other.
You definitely have a point there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:19:37 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 03, 2012, 05:55:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 05:14:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
I didn't sat that she would lose, but it would sort the matter out one way or the other.
Well you said she is not being interned, so that would lead me to believe you do think she would lose. Look apples, you clearly said she is not being interned. I'm just really interested to hear your reasons for thinking this, but you don't seem to have a single reason at all.

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
To be honest people like Marion Price with their support for dissidents leave SF open to criticism and accusations that they are still anchored to the past.
Again, I think people would be more worried about SF not taking issue with internment without trial.

You are maybe over estimating how important people see Marion Prices internment, various political parties are using it for their own ends. I have seen various "protests" about her internment about the Falls Road and have never seen more than a dozen people at them. People obviously don't feel that strongly about it one way or the other.

I don't over estimate anything. The issue of Price/Corey etc won't make or break SF, but it's more in SF's interest to voice opposition to cases of internment than to stay silent on it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on December 03, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:19:37 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 03, 2012, 05:55:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 05:14:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
I didn't sat that she would lose, but it would sort the matter out one way or the other.
Well you said she is not being interned, so that would lead me to believe you do think she would lose. Look apples, you clearly said she is not being interned. I'm just really interested to hear your reasons for thinking this, but you don't seem to have a single reason at all.

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
To be honest people like Marion Price with their support for dissidents leave SF open to criticism and accusations that they are still anchored to the past.
Again, I think people would be more worried about SF not taking issue with internment without trial.

You are maybe over estimating how important people see Marion Prices internment, various political parties are using it for their own ends. I have seen various "protests" about her internment about the Falls Road and have never seen more than a dozen people at them. People obviously don't feel that strongly about it one way or the other.

I don't over estimate anything. The issue of Price/Corey etc won't make or break SF, but it's more in SF's interest to voice opposition to cases of internment than to stay silent on it.

Sinn Fein's interests??? The case of internment without trial is always wrong, be it 1971 or now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 10:37:12 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on December 03, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 09:19:37 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 03, 2012, 05:55:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2012, 05:14:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
I didn't sat that she would lose, but it would sort the matter out one way or the other.
Well you said she is not being interned, so that would lead me to believe you do think she would lose. Look apples, you clearly said she is not being interned. I'm just really interested to hear your reasons for thinking this, but you don't seem to have a single reason at all.

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
To be honest people like Marion Price with their support for dissidents leave SF open to criticism and accusations that they are still anchored to the past.
Again, I think people would be more worried about SF not taking issue with internment without trial.

You are maybe over estimating how important people see Marion Prices internment, various political parties are using it for their own ends. I have seen various "protests" about her internment about the Falls Road and have never seen more than a dozen people at them. People obviously don't feel that strongly about it one way or the other.

I don't over estimate anything. The issue of Price/Corey etc won't make or break SF, but it's more in SF's interest to voice opposition to cases of internment than to stay silent on it.

Sinn Fein's interests??? The case of internment without trial is always wrong, be it 1971 or now.

No s**t!! My point was in relation to applesisapples claiming that SF will not do themselves any favour by supporting Price etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't. Should be tested in the courts if it is a miscarriage of justice then she will win.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 04, 2012, 05:17:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
If you don't mind me asking, why do you believe this? More to the point....what is the difference?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Should be tested in the courts if it is a miscarriage of justice then she will win.

mis·car·riage of jus·tice
noun
a failure of a court or judicial system to attain the ends of justice, especially one that results in the conviction of an innocent person.

She is in jail on the whim of a British Secretary of State, not a court, and she hasn't been convicted of a crime, so wouldn't that rule this out? Internment it is so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thebigfella on December 04, 2012, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2012, 05:17:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
If you don't mind me asking, why do you believe this? More to the point....what is the difference?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Should be tested in the courts if it is a miscarriage of justice then she will win.

mis·car·riage of jus·tice
noun
a failure of a court or judicial system to attain the ends of justice, especially one that results in the conviction of an innocent person.

She is in jail on the whim of a British Secretary of State, not a court, and she hasn't been convicted of a crime, so wouldn't that rule this out? Internment it is so.

Sure why don't your bust her out? Maybe you can make a name for yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2012, 05:17:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
If you don't mind me asking, why do you believe this? More to the point....what is the difference?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Should be tested in the courts if it is a miscarriage of justice then she will win.

mis·car·riage of jus·tice
noun
a failure of a court or judicial system to attain the ends of justice, especially one that results in the conviction of an innocent person.

She is in jail on the whim of a British Secretary of State, not a court, and she hasn't been convicted of a crime, so wouldn't that rule this out? Internment it is so.
Nally when you have to resort to this type of post it suggests that you have no defence, if you'll pardon the pun. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 05, 2012, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:00:50 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.

Again, what's the difference, exactly?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 05, 2012, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:00:50 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.

Again, what's the difference, exactly?
Yaaaawnn, like most nationalists I really am not overly concerned with Ms. Price and her politics of the past, to misquote SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 05, 2012, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 05, 2012, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:00:50 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.

Again, what's the difference, exactly?
Yaaaawnn, like most nationalists I really am not overly concerned with Ms. Price and her politics of the past, to misquote SF.

Apples, is is too much to expect a bit of proper discussion? You bring the act of avoiding a question to an art form. Please, in the interests of this being a discussion board, explain what the difference is between "an illegal detention" and internment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2012, 02:03:13 PM
Will you pair please give up ye're tiresome duet. >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 05, 2012, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 05, 2012, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:00:50 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.

Again, what's the difference, exactly?
Yaaaawnn, like most nationalists I really am not overly concerned with Ms. Price and her politics of the past, to misquote SF.

Apples, is is too much to expect a bit of proper discussion? You bring the act of avoiding a question to an art form. Please, in the interests of this being a discussion board, explain what the difference is between "an illegal detention" and internment.
Internment is a policy enacted by staute to imprison people without trial. This is not the case with Price, she may or may not be unlawfully detained, but unless she takes her case to court we won't know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 04:53:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2012, 02:03:13 PM
Will you pair please give up ye're tiresome duet. >:(
too right, I wanted to give it up ages ago but Nally is a persistent bugger!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 05, 2012, 04:59:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 05, 2012, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 05, 2012, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 12:00:50 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.

Again, what's the difference, exactly?
Yaaaawnn, like most nationalists I really am not overly concerned with Ms. Price and her politics of the past, to misquote SF.

Apples, is is too much to expect a bit of proper discussion? You bring the act of avoiding a question to an art form. Please, in the interests of this being a discussion board, explain what the difference is between "an illegal detention" and internment.
Internment is a policy enacted by staute to imprison people without trial. This is not the case with Price, she may or may not be unlawfully detained, but unless she takes her case to court we won't know.

Aside from the fact that no definition I've ever seen for internment includes a stipulation that is must be "in statute" to be termed as such, if we take your fanciful idea that it isn't internment because it isn't in statute, then since collusion, another British activity in Ireland, wasn't in statute I assume you don't regard it as having existed?

And if it is termed "an illegal detention" (which ironically isn't in statute either), then surely that is something a democratic society should be opposed to? Why then criticise SF for speaking out against it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2012, 05:24:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 04:53:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2012, 02:03:13 PM
Will you pair please give up ye're tiresome duet. >:(
too right, I wanted to give it up ages ago but Nally is a persistent bugger!

He does go on a biteen alright  ;D
And he probably calls Unionists "Intransigent"  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:10:30 PM
nally i think what apples is saying without actually coming out with it is that internment is wrong but it depends who it is.ie as long as its a nobody in his life its ok.
what nally is saying apples is its wrong no matter who it is. ie if you tolerate this then your children will be next
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 10, 2012, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:10:30 PM
nally i think what apples is saying without actually coming out with it is that internment is wrong but it depends who it is.ie as long as its a nobody in his life its ok.
what nally is saying apples is its wrong no matter who it is. ie if you tolerate this then your children will be next
very lyrical!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 10, 2012, 12:26:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2012, 05:24:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 05, 2012, 04:53:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2012, 02:03:13 PM
Will you pair please give up ye're tiresome duet. >:(
too right, I wanted to give it up ages ago but Nally is an persistent obsessve bugger!

He does go on a biteen alright  ;D
And he probably calls Unionists "Intransigent"  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 10, 2012, 12:46:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2012, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:10:30 PM
nally i think what apples is saying without actually coming out with it is that internment is wrong but it depends who it is.ie as long as its a nobody in his life its ok.
what nally is saying apples is its wrong no matter who it is. ie if you tolerate this then your children will be next
very lyrical!

Lyrical indeed. But if this is a discussion forum, and you are taking part, then I'd be interested to hear your response to the below queries:

1. Aside from the fact that no definition I've ever seen for internment includes a stipulation that is must be "in statute" to be termed as such, if we take your fanciful idea that it isn't internment because it isn't in statute, then since collusion, another British activity in Ireland, wasn't in statute I assume you don't regard it as having existed?

2. And if it is termed "an illegal detention" (which ironically isn't in statute either), then surely that is something a democratic society should be opposed to? Why then criticise SF for speaking out against it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 11, 2012, 03:43:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2012, 12:46:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2012, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:10:30 PM
nally i think what apples is saying without actually coming out with it is that internment is wrong but it depends who it is.ie as long as its a nobody in his life its ok.
what nally is saying apples is its wrong no matter who it is. ie if you tolerate this then your children will be next
very lyrical!

Lyrical indeed. But if this is a discussion forum, and you are taking part, then I'd be interested to hear your response to the below queries:

1. Aside from the fact that no definition I've ever seen for internment includes a stipulation that is must be "in statute" to be termed as such, if we take your fanciful idea that it isn't internment because it isn't in statute, then since collusion, another British activity in Ireland, wasn't in statute I assume you don't regard it as having existed?

2. And if it is termed "an illegal detention" (which ironically isn't in statute either), then surely that is something a democratic society should be opposed to? Why then criticise SF for speaking out against it?
Nally, I have explained my reasoning which you don't accept so no point in continuing. I know exactly where you stand and I don't agree with you, I can't see me changing your mind.
Anyway with the census showing only 25% of the NI population considering themselves as Irish, I think you and your SF colleagues have greater issues to worry about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 11, 2012, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2012, 03:43:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2012, 12:46:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2012, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:10:30 PM
nally i think what apples is saying without actually coming out with it is that internment is wrong but it depends who it is.ie as long as its a nobody in his life its ok.
what nally is saying apples is its wrong no matter who it is. ie if you tolerate this then your children will be next
very lyrical!

Lyrical indeed. But if this is a discussion forum, and you are taking part, then I'd be interested to hear your response to the below queries:

1. Aside from the fact that no definition I've ever seen for internment includes a stipulation that is must be "in statute" to be termed as such, if we take your fanciful idea that it isn't internment because it isn't in statute, then since collusion, another British activity in Ireland, wasn't in statute I assume you don't regard it as having existed?

2. And if it is termed "an illegal detention" (which ironically isn't in statute either), then surely that is something a democratic society should be opposed to? Why then criticise SF for speaking out against it?
Nally, I have explained my reasoning which you don't accept so no point in continuing. I know exactly where you stand and I don't agree with you, I can't see me changing your mind.
Anyway with the census showing only 25% of the NI population considering themselves as Irish, I think you and your SF colleagues have greater issues to worry about.

I'm not asking your reasoning, I'm just asking what the difference is between internment and illegal detention?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 13, 2012, 09:16:33 PM
25%? 25% consider themselves irish!? i'd say thats more to do with who running the show south of the border at the moment. given a choice between cameroon and the gimp kenny and fianna failure barking up his arse and they just after putting 4 future generations under the jackboot. who'd blame anyone for not wanting to join the sheep.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 15, 2012, 09:36:51 AM

A jury has found that Sinn Fein libelled a former director of NI Water.

Declan Gormley sued the party over the contents of two press releases it issued in 2011 in support of his sacking from the NIW Board.

The party denied the press releases were defamatory, but the jury found the party had acted with malice.

There will be another hearing at the High Court on Monday when damages will be decided.

The businessman, who was dismissed from the government-owned company by former Sinn Fein Regional Development Minister Conor Murphy, spoke of his relief at the outcome.

"I'm delighted, I feel the verdict has vindicated the position I have held throughout that this was something that was wrong," he said.

"I'm also disappointed that I had to end up in court, I would have been happy to settle for an apology and a public acknowledgement that it was wrong."

Mr Gormley was sacked along with three other non-executive directors from NI Water in March 2010.

Mr Murphy removed them from the board following an independent review team investigation into the awarding of contracts.

A subsequent Stormont Public Accounts Committee report into procurement and performance at the company was said to have criticised the earlier inquiry and questioned its independence.

Reckless
Mr Gormley emphatically denied any wrongdoing.

He issued libel proceedings against Sinn Fein and two of its representatives, MLA Cathal Boylan and former Assemblyman Willie Clarke, over the contents of press releases backing the decision to sack him.

Over the course of a ten-day hearing at the High Court in Belfast, his legal team claimed they damaged his reputation and were reckless, if not dishonest.

Lawyers for Sinn Fein contended, however, that neither statement contained any defamatory content.

They also claimed a defence of qualified privilege, arguing that the press releases were in response to a campaign of attacks on Mr Murphy mounted by the SDLP with Mr Gormley's collusion.

But a jury of five men and one woman found for Mr Gormley on the balance of probabilities.

They decided that both statements were defamatory and that the defendants were guilty of malice.

Mr Justice Gillen then rejected a final defence of qualified journalism, ruling that no steps had been taken to try to verify the contents of the press releases before publishing them.

"I'm satisfied that the press releases in question fell below the acceptable standards of journalistic approach," he said.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2012, 01:09:09 PM
£80K damages awarded.

Declan Gormley will also receive full costs of his successful action over the contents of two party press releases found to contain defamatory and malicious content.

According to informed sources the legal bill for the three-week trial will run into a six figure sum.

But speaking outside the High Court in Belfast Mr Gormley insisted the case was never about the money.

He said: "What happened to me was wrong, a jury of ordinary men and women have decided it was wrong and have awarded accordingly."

Mr Gormley added that he had no expectations about the level of damages.

"It's never been about the money, it's always been about vindicating my reputation and good name.

"The award is great, but that was never the focus of my action."

The businessman was dismissed along with three other non-executive directors from NI Water in March 2010.

Conor Murphy, the former Sinn Féin Minister for Regional Development, removed them from the board following an independent review team investigation into the awarding of contracts.

A subsequent Stormont Public Accounts Committee report into procurement and performance at the government-owned company was said to have criticised the earlier inquiry and questioned its independence.

Mr Gormley emphatically denies any wrongdoing.

"I'm absolutely delighted, but I think it's more important to point out that this completes the utter vindication of my position."
Declan Gormley

He issued libel proceedings against Sinn Féin and two of its representatives, MLA Cathal Boylan and former Assemblyman Willie Clarke, over the contents of press releases which referred to sacking.

During a three-week hearing, his legal team claimed they damaged his reputation and were reckless if not dishonest.

Lawyers for Sinn Féin contended, however, that neither statement contained any defamatory content. They also claimed a defence of qualified privilege, arguing that the press releases were in response to a campaign of attacks on Mr Murphy mounted by the SDLP with Mr Gormley's collusion.

But on Friday a jury of five men and one woman took just over an hour to unanimously find for Mr Gormley on the balance of probabilities.

They decided both statements were defamatory and contained malicious content.

Mr Justice Gillen then rejected a final defence based on responsible journalism, ruling that no steps had been taken to try to verify the contents of the press releases before publishing them.

In court on Monday the jury was advised against awarding too high a pay-out.

The judge told them: "Keep your feet on the ground."

Counsel for Sinn Féin also argued that the defamation merited only a modest award due to the limited circulation of the press releases.

But Mr Gormley's barrister, David Dunlop, said the party issued the statements to around 200 news outlets in the hope of gaining widespread publicity.

He pointed out how damages were for the distressed suffered by his client, to repair the harm to his reputation and a form of vindication.

Mr Dunlop added that Sinn Féin and the other defendants have not apologised.

Instead there had been "a bull-headed, unreasonable and unjustified persistence in maintaining the party line" throughout the trial," he said.

Sinn Féin have not indicated if they will appeal the decision.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 31, 2012, 10:43:03 AM
martin quits his mp job francy will take over. sinn fein lead the way in ending double jobbing as per their election promise
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 31, 2012, 12:54:12 PM
Will there not be a By election before "Francy takes over" ?
I think Joe Higgins ended double jobbing in March 2011.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 31, 2012, 02:40:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 31, 2012, 12:54:12 PM
Will there not be a By election before "Francy takes over" ?
I think Joe Higgins ended double jobbing in March 2011.
yes by election and francy will take over.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on December 31, 2012, 02:52:17 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 31, 2012, 02:40:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 31, 2012, 12:54:12 PM
Will there not be a By election before "Francy takes over" ?
I think Joe Higgins ended double jobbing in March 2011.
yes by election and francy will take over.

He may not have it all his own way, Willie Frazer is also in the running.  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 31, 2012, 08:21:05 PM
Been part of Mid Ulster and having actually voted for him once under the McCrea out banner (which was a winner that yr with him on stage with Billy Wright) can someone actually state what he has done for the area since he got elected? I see no real progress in Mid Ulster all these yrs, very little has changed,well thats not true, all my brothers are out of work, more than half my friends cant get work, mid ulster actually became a unemployment hotspot, BUT YOU GET WHO YOU VOTE FOR. Martin McGuinness spent more time running after deputy minster  than do anything where he got elected. I always never held to people getting elected in areas they are not from, Willie McCrea done the same thing in North antrim. So as to him standing down in the area, would anybody really notice?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 31, 2012, 10:04:46 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 31, 2012, 02:40:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 31, 2012, 12:54:12 PM
Will there not be a By election before "Francy takes over" ?
I think Joe Higgins ended double jobbing in March 2011.
yes by election and francy will take over.

Take over what exactly?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 31, 2012, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 31, 2012, 10:04:46 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 31, 2012, 02:40:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 31, 2012, 12:54:12 PM
Will there not be a By election before "Francy takes over" ?
I think Joe Higgins ended double jobbing in March 2011.
yes by election and francy will take over.

Take over what exactly?
Take over not doing the job Marty didn't do for 15 years. That's taking the war to the Brits.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 31, 2012, 10:40:54 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 31, 2012, 08:21:05 PM
Been part of Mid Ulster and having actually voted for him once under the McCrea out banner (which was a winner that yr with him on stage with Billy Wright) can someone actually state what he has done for the area since he got elected? I see no real progress in Mid Ulster all these yrs, very little has changed,well thats not true, all my brothers are out of work, more than half my friends cant get work, mid ulster actually became a unemployment hotspot, BUT YOU GET WHO YOU VOTE FOR. Martin McGuinness spent more time running after deputy minster  than do anything where he got elected. I always never held to people getting elected in areas they are not from, Willie McCrea done the same thing in North antrim. So as to him standing down in the area, would anybody really notice?
out of work? are you for real? ahh.. i get it you worked in the linen industry..? you should join the boys on the fleg protest some of them have been out of work for 15 years! thats right through the 'tiger' years, the london boom etc etc. on the other hand if yez are all out of work that give yez plenty of time to yourselves.. long days though
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on December 31, 2012, 10:57:00 PM
Je lads he could of been treble jobbing if he got elected down south  ;D ;D ;D.

Who would of thought a man getting elected in two different juristrictions on one island for three jobs.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 31, 2012, 11:05:29 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 31, 2012, 10:40:54 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 31, 2012, 08:21:05 PM
Been part of Mid Ulster and having actually voted for him once under the McCrea out banner (which was a winner that yr with him on stage with Billy Wright) can someone actually state what he has done for the area since he got elected? I see no real progress in Mid Ulster all these yrs, very little has changed,well thats not true, all my brothers are out of work, more than half my friends cant get work, mid ulster actually became a unemployment hotspot, BUT YOU GET WHO YOU VOTE FOR. Martin McGuinness spent more time running after deputy minster  than do anything where he got elected. I always never held to people getting elected in areas they are not from, Willie McCrea done the same thing in North antrim. So as to him standing down in the area, would anybody really notice?
out of work? are you for real? ahh.. i get it you worked in the linen industry..? you should join the boys on the fleg protest some of them have been out of work for 15 years! thats right through the 'tiger' years, the london boom etc etc. on the other hand if yez are all out of work that give yez plenty of time to yourselves.. long days though
There are a lot of people out of work lawnseed, why are you mocking them. Its not funny no more than emigration is funny.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 31, 2012, 11:41:49 PM
i just been talking to a lad whos home from canada. the town he was in was smaller than ballygawley. population less than 700. in the local paper there were 3 full pages of display ads and a half a page of classifieds all looking workers. by you own posts where you are is a shithole, martin mcguiness has done fuk all for fifteen years! i'd be on the first plane no messing. this lad was offered work as a welder and accomodation and he never welded in his life. marty is 6 hours on a jet away you'd be much happier.. seriously if it so bad pull the pin   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 31, 2012, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 31, 2012, 11:41:49 PM
i just been talking to a lad whos home from canada. the town he was in was smaller than ballygawley. population less than 700. in the local paper there were 3 full pages of display ads and a half a page of classifieds all looking workers. by you own posts where you are is a shithole, martin mcguiness has done fuk all for fifteen years! i'd be on the first plane no messing. this lad was offered work as a welder and accomodation and he never welded in his life. marty is 6 hours on a jet away you'd be much happier.. seriously if it so bad pull the pin

Lawnseed and Victorian British Government advocating the export of Irish out of Ireland. Not everyone got the family farm. Then again like the land class during the famine you have no empathy for your countrymen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 01, 2013, 12:19:08 AM
Glad to see he wrote to his paymasters in Westminster to inform them he was resigning.

A loyal subject to the end.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on January 01, 2013, 12:20:34 AM
Probably get a knighthood for his service to the British Crown.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 01, 2013, 12:41:06 AM
Lawnseed (sorry dickhead!!) not that you know much about midulster but the majority of work in this area depended on the building trade, hence why in recent years my friends have been gradually pushed out work, there is nothing else, it takes time to be retrained in anything, they have all worked away, Belfast, down south etc, they can only work so far as most have families. Hope the situation doesnt befall you or you wont take the piss so easy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on January 01, 2013, 02:40:32 AM
Tis a big year for mcguinness this year lads. Dont get on his case on the first day of his acceptance UK city of culture award  ;D :D :P the huge party in the Bog is in full swing...................

Sweet low, sweet chariot...................
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on January 01, 2013, 09:13:56 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 01, 2013, 02:40:32 AM
Tis a big year for mcguinness this year lads. Dont get on his case on the first day of his acceptance UK city of culture award  ;D :D :P the huge party in the Bog is in full swing...................

Sweet low, sweet chariot...................

Oops ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 01, 2013, 10:19:39 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on December 31, 2012, 10:57:00 PM
Je lads he could of been treble jobbing if he got elected down south  ;D ;D ;D.

Who would of thought a man getting elected in two different juristrictions on one island for three jobs.

Take 4 penalty points and undertake a basic English course. :'(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on January 01, 2013, 11:20:09 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 01, 2013, 10:19:39 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on December 31, 2012, 10:57:00 PM
Je lads he could of been treble jobbing if he got elected down south  ;D ;D ;D.

Who would of thought a man getting elected in two different juristrictions on one island for three jobs.

Take 4 penalty points and undertake a basic English course. :'(

f**k it. I reckon for the new year the gaa boarders should ignore the 'of' and 'have' words rule and they should be treated equally.

Mind ye I have a qts English test coming up to become a qualified teacher so maybe ye were all correct to pull me on my pelslgin
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 02, 2013, 08:27:01 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 01, 2013, 12:41:06 AM
Lawnseed (sorry d**khead!!) not that you know much about midulster but the majority of work in this area depended on the building trade, hence why in recent years my friends have been gradually pushed out work, there is nothing else, it takes time to be retrained in anything, they have all worked away, Belfast, down south etc, they can only work so far as most have families. Hope the situation doesnt befall you or you wont take the piss so easy

"there is nothing else...?" sounds to me like you are a little depressed you should mention this to your doctor. but the man your slagging off has brought thousand of jobs to the six counties (and peter robinson helped as well) i suggest you do a welding course asap. i've a friend earning $300 a day in canada he spends more time at home than me. i can tell you that i have a young family, a mortgage and loans and should i find myself in your position i wouldnt be in this place a week
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 02, 2013, 08:37:10 AM
the home of capitalism follows sinn fein fiancial policy.. its been a long running theme in irish politics propagated by 'fine fail' and fed on by the media that sinn fein couldnt handle the economy of this country. now in the US barrack obama has managed to get support in both the seats of power for a policy that is taken straight from the sinn fein statement of policy. taxing those who can afford it makes alot more sense than screwing the poor. well done president obama
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 02, 2013, 12:19:04 PM
The Skibbereen Eagle couldn't hold a candle to Lawnseed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 02, 2013, 12:29:58 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2013, 08:37:10 AM
the home of capitalism follows sinn fein fiancial policy.. its been a long running theme in irish politics propagated by 'fine fail' and fed on by the media that sinn fein couldnt handle the economy of this country. now in the US barrack obama has managed to get support in both the seats of power for a policy that is taken straight from the sinn fein statement of policy. taxing those who can afford it makes alot more sense than screwing the poor. well done president obama

Sinn Féin will cuts taxes for all earners earning less than $450,000 per annum?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 02, 2013, 06:16:34 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on January 01, 2013, 12:20:34 AM
Probably get a knighthood for his service to the British Crown.
Not quite - well not yet - just the title of Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead so far.

Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness has been given an English aristocratic title following his formal resignation as member of the UK parliament.

He has been appointed Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead by the chancellor, George Osborne.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 02, 2013, 08:12:31 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 02, 2013, 06:16:34 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on January 01, 2013, 12:20:34 AM
Probably get a knighthood for his service to the British Crown.
Not quite - well not yet - just the title of Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead so far.

Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness has been given an English aristocratic title following his formal resignation as member of the UK parliament.

He has been appointed Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead by the chancellor, George Osborne.

(http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/23329_116734968496499_2136864129_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 02, 2013, 08:16:19 PM
WTF!!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 02, 2013, 08:19:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 02, 2013, 08:12:31 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 02, 2013, 06:16:34 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on January 01, 2013, 12:20:34 AM
Probably get a knighthood for his service to the British Crown.
Not quite - well not yet - just the title of Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead so far.

Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness has been given an English aristocratic title following his formal resignation as member of the UK parliament.

He has been appointed Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead by the chancellor, George Osborne.

(http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/23329_116734968496499_2136864129_n.jpg)


The move is a formality and either it or a similar title - the office of the Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Chiltern Hundreds - is conferred on resigning MPs, whether or not they accept it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 02, 2013, 08:51:46 PM
Marty will have to get Aengus OSnodaigh to knock up a lock more headed paper now he is removing "MP".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 02, 2013, 08:55:13 PM
I didn't realise he was friends with George Osborne.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on January 10, 2013, 01:18:06 AM
Almost 20 years ago now.

Funny, the only two left(in politics) are Adams and Nesbitt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MjK_C-qV9o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 10, 2013, 04:34:51 PM
SF do seem to be going away

(http://img.rasset.ie/0006db73-440.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
SF 4% fall / FF 3% rise.

And in the immediate aftermath of a budget.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 07:07:36 PM
Oh, and 44% of SF voters in the Republic feel decision to restrict flying of the Union flag was wrong.
Does that make them 'West Brits'?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 10, 2013, 07:14:03 PM

QuoteOh, and 44% of SF voters in the Republic feel decision to restrict flying of the Union flag was wrong.
Does that make them 'West Brits'?

It would be rather odd, whatever name you put on it.
What exactly was the question asked? If it was agreement with the present policy of the City Council, then this would include those that think that they have no business flying the Butcher's Apron at any time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on January 10, 2013, 08:11:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 07:07:36 PM
Oh, and 44% of SF voters in the Republic feel decision to restrict flying of the Union flag was wrong.
Does that make them 'West Brits'?

If you discount those didn't respond then the poll says 19% of SF voters in the south feel decision was wrong. Also the SF sample size is 83 which would make the margin of error about 10-11%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 09:02:30 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 10, 2013, 08:11:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 07:07:36 PM
Oh, and 44% of SF voters in the Republic feel decision to restrict flying of the Union flag was wrong.
Does that make them 'West Brits'?

If you discount those didn't respond then the poll says 19% of SF voters in the south feel decision was wrong. Also the SF sample size is 83 which would make the margin of error about 10-11%.
How many didn't respond? And are you assuming that those who didn't respond feel the decision was right?
And if you discount those didn't respond then what % SF voters in the south feel decision was right?
Also, If the margain of error is 10-11%, could the figure actually be 55%?

There's more than one way to spin statistics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on January 10, 2013, 09:09:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 09:02:30 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 10, 2013, 08:11:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 07:07:36 PM
Oh, and 44% of SF voters in the Republic feel decision to restrict flying of the Union flag was wrong.
Does that make them 'West Brits'?

If you discount those didn't respond then the poll says 19% of SF voters in the south feel decision was wrong. Also the SF sample size is 83 which would make the margin of error about 10-11%.
How many didn't respond? And are you assuming that those who didn't respond feel the decision was right?
And if you discount those didn't respond then what % SF voters in the south feel decision was right?
Also, If the margain of error is 10-11%, could the figure actually be 55%?

There's more than one way to spin statistics.

Indeed. It could also be 8%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 09:14:50 PM
That's assuming your 19% is a valid starting point, which is highly unlikely.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on January 10, 2013, 10:51:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 09:14:50 PM
That's assuming your 19% is a valid starting point, which is highly unlikely.

Why is it unlikely?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 11:03:58 PM
See my reply #367 and the questions you didn't answer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 11, 2013, 03:49:42 PM
You assume that everyone who votes for SF agree with all their policies and positions on various issues, they don't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 15, 2013, 09:29:03 AM
Bizarre alright.

Sinn Fein is bizarrely complaining to respected international news channel CNN for saying Gerry Adams was an IRA leader.

Mr Adams has repeatedly denied being a member of the IRA, despite repeated accusations from the Government and former Provos.

Most recently, he was implicated in the murder of Belfast mother-of-10 Jean McConville.

CNN's World Report carried an interview with Mr Adams, in which he was described as "a former IRA paramilitary commander".

A leading Fine Gael councillor has called on Mr Adams to "treat the Irish people with respect and come clean about his past".

Fine Gael's leader of Limerick City Council, Diarmuid Scully, said the report has gone out around the world.

"If Gerry Adams is willing to be described as such in the international media, why does he continue to deny his former IRA membership here in Ireland. Surely the people deserve to know the truth about those who represent them," he said.

Sinn Fein said Mr Adams's spokesman has complained to CNN's representative in Belfast about the description of the party president. In the report on the loyalist violence and flags protest in Belfast, Mr Adams was described as "a former IRA paramilitary commander" and also as "the leading Catholic politician in Northern Ireland".

Mr Adams was speaking out against the ongoing violence in Belfast at a peace vigil at the weekend.

He continues to be routinely accused of being an IRA leader and member of the Army Council. Taoiseach Enda Kenny has joined in the statements declaring Mr Adams as a member of the IRA.

Last year, convicted IRA bomber Dolours Price accused Mr Adams of having a leading role in the Provos, including personal involvement in the murder of Jean McConville.

- Fionnan Sheahan Political Editor

Irish Independent


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 19, 2013, 12:04:32 PM
The fleg men will be delighted with this news.


Sinn Féin is holding a special conference in Dublin to highlight the party's call for a border poll.

It wants a plebiscite in Northern Ireland on partition after the next Assembly elections.

Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams said this week that his party wanted a debate about the kind of Ireland people wanted to see for the 21st Century.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SuperMac on January 19, 2013, 02:54:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2013, 04:34:51 PM
SF do seem to be going away

(http://img.rasset.ie/0006db73-440.jpg)

Quote from: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
SF 4% fall / FF 3% rise.

And in the immediate aftermath of a budget.
FF's rise is at FG's expense, SF drops went to the Independents. As a SF member I wouldn't get too excited, FF are enjoying plenty of news coverage as the so called only ' oppostion ' to FG/Labour thanks to their army of appoimtees down the years in RTE, Newstalk radio and of course Dr Sir O'Reilly's/O'Brien's toilet papers Independent newspapers. We will have council, Euro and referendums to make our impact and importantly a financial scandal invovling FF midway thru an election may well be uncovered liek what happened with Sean Gallaher  ;)  - we're not going away you know   :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2013, 03:58:14 PM
Quote from: SuperMac on January 19, 2013, 02:54:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2013, 04:34:51 PM
SF do seem to be going away

(http://img.rasset.ie/0006db73-440.jpg)

Quote from: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
SF 4% fall / FF 3% rise.

And in the immediate aftermath of a budget.
FF's rise is at FG's expense, SF drops went to the Independents. As a SF member I wouldn't get too excited, FF are enjoying plenty of news coverage as the so called only ' oppostion ' to FG/Labour thanks to their army of appoimtees down the years in RTE, Newstalk radio and of course Dr Sir O'Reilly's/O'Brien's toilet papers Independent newspapers. We will have council, Euro and referendums to make our impact and importantly a financial scandal invovling FF midway thru an election may well be uncovered liek what happened with Sean Gallaher  ;)  - we're not going away you know   :)

This is so blatant it makes Fox news look balanced.

What's the deal with a Financial Scandal?

Meehole sent checks to Jihadists?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 20, 2013, 08:56:25 AM
jeez muppet?  ::)

in relation to ff theres no problem finding a financial scandal.  ;)

but to land a killer blow sf need someone other than gerry there are several contenders for leader the sooner the better
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2013, 01:11:48 PM
Quote from: SuperMac on January 19, 2013, 02:54:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2013, 04:34:51 PM
SF do seem to be going away

(http://img.rasset.ie/0006db73-440.jpg)

Quote from: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
SF 4% fall / FF 3% rise.

And in the immediate aftermath of a budget.
FF's rise is at FG's expense, SF drops went to the Independents. As a SF member I wouldn't get too excited, FF are enjoying plenty of news coverage as the so called only ' oppostion ' to FG/Labour thanks to their army of appoimtees down the years in RTE, Newstalk radio and of course Dr Sir O'Reilly's/O'Brien's toilet papers Independent newspapers. We will have council, Euro and referendums to make our impact and importantly a financial scandal invovling FF midway thru an election may well be uncovered liek what happened with Sean Gallaher  ;)  - we're not going away you know   :)
I think the Shinners are going quite well and consolidating their gains in recent years but they're doing so because of their work on the ground not because of anything that happens north of the border.
I think the general public down here are broadly supporting the nationalist cause but not to the extent that it will override other issues. Unemployment and falling standards of living dominate the agenda.   
Ask Marty, he found that out the hard way.
From what I can gather, Mary Lou is gaining credibility and so to a lesser extent is Peirce Doherty. It'll take another election or two, when the Shinners have come up with credible policies and all associated with the Troubles have left the scène, before they may become a force in politics down here.
FF aren't going away either.
They have one big advantage over all other parties and it can't be underestimated; they have an efficient electioneering set up in every constituency. Okay, it t may be bent a bit at the moment but it sure ain't broke. They'll get the hard core vote out come the next election.
Anyone connected with Cowan and his gobshites will have to stand aside before they will become a big player again- a bit like Gerry and SF.
Labour will probably lose out big time next election and SF could make inroads here.
They have taken a battering in every election since the foundation of the state, after a period in coalition, and I can't see them doing well next time either. They're a mixum gatherum of Democratic Left, Stickies and traditional Labour and their performance to date had been patchy to say the least. Besides, they don't field candidates in the majority of constituencies.
FG won't go up or down very much before the next election, like FF, they have their hard core supporters and I'd say something like 30-35% at the next outing is as much as they can hope for
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 20, 2013, 04:21:40 PM
Quote from: SuperMac on January 19, 2013, 02:54:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2013, 04:34:51 PM
SF do seem to be going away

(http://img.rasset.ie/0006db73-440.jpg)

Quote from: Maguire01 on January 10, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
SF 4% fall / FF 3% rise.

And in the immediate aftermath of a budget.
FF's rise is at FG's expense, SF drops went to the Independents.
How do you know?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 23, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
the border poll, all ireland referendum what ever you want to call it sinn feins calling for it at this time is simply the cleverest political move in Irish politics in a decade. in the north, the navel gazing dup and uup and the Norths inward looking media think its about 'norn iron'... "I'm not paying 50 euros for the doctor.." blah blah. this move has nothing to do with uniting ireland. its all about the 26. look at the reaction of the establishment in the south! first thing to remember is that all parties south of the border have a united ireland included in their party manifestos. some in small writing and some in large print but they all acknowledge it, its part of getting elected.. you roll out the tricolour and chucky a bit and that's your homage to the cause. then you make promises you have no intention of keeping hospitals jobs etc. but look how these guys have reacted.. they don't want it. sinn fein have exposed an unwillingness to help bring about something that is part of Irish DNA. Fianna fail 'the republican party' don't want a referendum.. brillant! hats off to sinn feins political strategists
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2013, 10:28:37 PM
Quotethis move has nothing to do with uniting ireland.

Indeed.

Is there any chance that SF will actually do something to advance the unification of Ireland?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 23, 2013, 10:42:51 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 23, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
the border pole, all ireland referendum what ever you want to call it

I certainly wouldnt call it a pole, lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 23, 2013, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 23, 2013, 10:28:37 PM
Quotethis move has nothing to do with uniting ireland.

Indeed.

Is there any chance that SF will actually do something to advance the unification of Ireland?
in theory all parties are supposed to be advancing the unification unless theyre unionists. this move has split the unionists even further and put the parties in the south in the position where they want to oppose the unification of their own country looks very bad for them.
the south has to be made habitable first. you cant do that until your in government.. time for that dungout ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2013, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 23, 2013, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 23, 2013, 10:28:37 PM
Quotethis move has nothing to do with uniting ireland.

Indeed.

Is there any chance that SF will actually do something to advance the unification of Ireland?
in theory all parties are supposed to be advancing the unification unless theyre unionists. this move has split the unionists even further and put the parties in the south in the position where they want to oppose the unification of their own country looks very bad for them.
the south has to be made habitable first. you cant do that until your in government.. time for that dungout ;)


hahaha "made habitable". The Irish Republic is a a gemstone when put beside the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 23, 2013, 11:26:08 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2013, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 23, 2013, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 23, 2013, 10:28:37 PM
Quotethis move has nothing to do with uniting ireland.

Indeed.

Is there any chance that SF will actually do something to advance the unification of Ireland?
in theory all parties are supposed to be advancing the unification unless theyre unionists. this move has split the unionists even further and put the parties in the south in the position where they want to oppose the unification of their own country looks very bad for them.
the south has to be made habitable first. you cant do that until your in government.. time for that dungout ;)


hahaha "made habitable". The Irish Republic is a a gemstone when put beside the North.
sure maybe when we sort it out you might try it out again
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 23, 2013, 11:33:53 PM
dup in disarray have'nt a clue whether they want a referendum or not. arlene foster changing her mind now on nolan
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 24, 2013, 01:42:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 23, 2013, 11:26:08 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2013, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 23, 2013, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 23, 2013, 10:28:37 PM
Quotethis move has nothing to do with uniting ireland.

Indeed.

Is there any chance that SF will actually do something to advance the unification of Ireland?
in theory all parties are supposed to be advancing the unification unless theyre unionists. this move has split the unionists even further and put the parties in the south in the position where they want to oppose the unification of their own country looks very bad for them.
the south has to be made habitable first. you cant do that until your in government.. time for that dungout ;)


hahaha "made habitable". The Irish Republic is a a gemstone when put beside the North.
sure maybe when we sort it out you might try it out again

If you ever join the Irish Republic, just be good little boys and leave guns, flegs and puke football at home.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on January 24, 2013, 10:06:33 AM
The politics of the Irish republic as you know it would change considerably with a UI and that's the frightening thing for FF and FG, they'd possibly lose power unless one or the other tries to get into bed with the SDLP.

Nolan show was interesting in so much as Arlene was adamant that the union was strong and even Nolan suggested to her that the recent census data suggested that it wasn't just as strong as she was implying and it'd be better for the DUP came clean with their electorate. She went into ostrich mode quite quickly.

Maskey is many's a thing, a salesman for a UI to unionism he isn't, not sure if the shinners have anyone as yet to fit that mould.

The was a very valid point made by Malachi O'Doherty (the gremlin like character in the audience) that republicans will be voting for a UI no matter the economic situation in Dublin or London and ditto the unionists to maintain the union. Economics and the practicalities would only matter to the middle ground, possibly those who consider themselves Northern Irish in the census.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 24, 2013, 10:17:13 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 24, 2013, 10:06:33 AM
The politics of the Irish republic as you know it would change considerably with a UI and that's the frightening thing for FF and FG, they'd possibly lose power unless one or the other tries to get into bed with the SDLP.

Nolan show was interesting in so much as Arlene was adamant that the union was strong and even Nolan suggested to her that the recent census data suggested that it wasn't just as strong as she was implying and it'd be better for the DUP came clean with their electorate. She went into ostrich mode quite quickly.

Maskey is many's a thing, a salesman for a UI to unionism he isn't, not sure if the shinners have anyone as yet to fit that mould.

The was a very valid point made by Malachi O'Doherty (the gremlin like character in the audience) that republicans will be voting for a UI no matter the economic situation in Dublin or London and ditto the unionists to maintain the union. Economics and the practicalities would only matter to the middle ground, possibly those who consider themselves Northern Irish in the census.

Sinn Féin has never been about that and if they are going to run a referendum it is a bit late to find someone with credibility to sell anything to Unionists. The SDLP would have been useful in this regard but they got their reward for Hume's work at the ballot box.

Unionists, in the main (David Irvine maybe) have never tried to 'reach out' so no help likely there.

Likely winners from this, believe it or not, are the small band of nutters with the flegs, who right now are outflank democratic Unionism at a time of a great threat, as they would see it.

SF will not be affected, north or south, while the other parties in the south would be better advised taking a low key approach. But I suspect they wont be able to help themselves. No democratic party should be blindly opposed to a ballot so they would be foolish to blindly oppose it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 24, 2013, 01:18:18 PM
Ex-IRA woman Dolours Price is found dead in Dublin 

The convicted IRA bomber, Dolours Price, has been found dead at her home in Malahide, County Dublin.

Her family has confirmed that she died at the house on Wednesday night and they are to release a statement later.

She was jailed for her part in an IRA bomb attack on the Old Bailey in London in 1973 that injured more than 200 people.

In recent years she has been an outspoken critic of the IRA leadership and Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 24, 2013, 01:35:27 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 24, 2013, 01:18:18 PM
Ex-IRA woman Dolours Price is found dead in Dublin 

The convicted IRA bomber, Dolours Price, has been found dead at her home in Malahide, County Dublin.

Her family has confirmed that she died at the house on Wednesday night and they are to release a statement later.

She was jailed for her part in an IRA bomb attack on the Old Bailey in London in 1973 that injured more than 200 people.

In recent years she has been an outspoken critic of the IRA leadership and Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams.

wrong thread,this is already on death notices.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 24, 2013, 01:51:36 PM
Leaving room for the conspiracy theorists out there after watching a good movie last night - Innocent based on the novel Presumed Innocent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 24, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
I have to agree with you there. If this poll is about starting a debate then fine. But as things stand there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a majority of nationalists let alone an overall majority voting for a united Ireland. Before that happens we need to know what this unified state is going to look like. Listen to Conal McDevitt of the SDLP, he keeps reiterating that the debate needs to take place among nationalist first and formost.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 24, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 24, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
I have to agree with you there. If this poll is about starting a debate then fine. But as things stand there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a majority of nationalists let alone an overall majority voting for a united Ireland. Before that happens we need to know what this unified state is going to look like. Listen to Conal McDevitt of the SDLP, he keeps reiterating that the debate needs to take place among nationalist first and formost.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are Conal McDevitt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
As someone has already said, i would love to know what a united ireland will look like? Sinn fein will struggle to convince a lot of people if it is going to effect their pocket, i.e higher taxes, price of living, etc. In the current economic climate the ordinary middle of the road nationalist will choose whatever is better for their pocket.
The coke can kickers that lye about the house all day and sponge off the government will vote for a UI because they will get a higher rate of Dole in the republic.
My honest opinion is SF's heads are in the clouds on this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 24, 2013, 03:27:55 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
As someone has already said, i would love to know what a united ireland will look like? Sinn fein will struggle to convince a lot of people if it is going to effect their pocket, i.e higher taxes, price of living, etc. In the current economic climate the ordinary middle of the road nationalist will choose whatever is better for their pocket.
The coke can kickers that lye about the house all day and sponge off the government will vote for a UI because they will get a higher rate of Dole in the republic.
My honest opinion is SF's heads are in the clouds on this

They will lose their DLA though so there is no chance of them voting for it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 04:20:05 PM
Is there no DLA in the republic, i know the dole rate is a lot higher than it is in the north
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 24, 2013, 04:54:22 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 04:20:05 PM
Is there no DLA in the republic, i know the dole rate is a lot higher than it is in the north

Dunno but if you are on DLA here you get more dole plus whatever you get on the DLA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 05:02:45 PM
Cant say either way saffron, but the point  im making is. Anyone with half a brain will take a look at the economic effect and if it is going to hit their pocket on a weekly or monthly basis they have to have a serious look at it. Republicans have fought for a united Ireland for decades and now that there is a possiblity of a Border Poll, it will be interesting to see what they will do if it ends up costing them e.g  £100-£150
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thebigfella on January 24, 2013, 05:26:50 PM
Alex Maskey/Sinn Fein come across completely inept last night. I actually thing big Arlene didn't do that bad job to begin with; caught him out bumbling about the health service and defence budget ::)

I think after that she just got a bit bored and lazy. Maskey wasn't really putting up a fight and was doing more to convince people on the fence that the status quo is better than Sinn Fein's vision of unity.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 24, 2013, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 05:02:45 PM
Cant say either way saffron, but the point  im making is. Anyone with half a brain will take a look at the economic effect and if it is going to hit their pocket on a weekly or monthly basis they have to have a serious look at it. Republicans have fought for a united Ireland for decades and now that there is a possiblity of a Border Poll, it will be interesting to see what they will do if it ends up costing them e.g  £100-£150

I agree totally Onion Bag, if someone is down £300-400 a month in a UI do people seriously think they will vote for it, no matter how Republican they see themselves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 05:47:57 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 05:02:45 PM
Cant say either way saffron, but the point  im making is. Anyone with half a brain will take a look at the economic effect and if it is going to hit their pocket on a weekly or monthly basis they have to have a serious look at it. Republicans have fought for a united Ireland for decades and now that there is a possiblity of a Border Poll, it will be interesting to see what they will do if it ends up costing them e.g  £100-£150
£100 - £150??  Imagine the sheer reckless stupidity of the old rebels who endured hardships, jail, torture, laid their priceless lives on the line, for independence from the Empire, only for generations later where people are shrewdly balancing pennies and pounds, seeing which way they should vote.
All those rebels should have sat down and worked out the financial pros and cons as it affected their wallets, before causing such destruction. If only they had half a brain ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 24, 2013, 07:02:12 PM
QuoteAs someone has already said, i would love to know what a united ireland will look like? Sinn fein will struggle to convince a lot of people if it is going to effect their pocket, i.e higher taxes, price of living, etc. In the current economic climate the ordinary middle of the road nationalist will choose whatever is better for their pocket.

There is an enormous amount of work to be done on this. I suppose the only advantage of proposing the idea is to try and move the debate beyond wild speculation and the pointless detailed discussion of the price of Mars Bars.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.

i.d go with that. maskey was poor he didnt seem too well prepared
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 24, 2013, 09:29:34 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.

i.d go with that. maskey was poor he didnt seem too well prepared

Had he never considered a United Ireland?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 09:36:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 05:47:57 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 05:02:45 PM
Cant say either way saffron, but the point  im making is. Anyone with half a brain will take a look at the economic effect and if it is going to hit their pocket on a weekly or monthly basis they have to have a serious look at it. Republicans have fought for a united Ireland for decades and now that there is a possiblity of a Border Poll, it will be interesting to see what they will do if it ends up costing them e.g  £100-£150
£100 - £150??  Imagine the sheer reckless stupidity of the old rebels who endured hardships, jail, torture, laid their priceless lives on the line, for independence from the Empire, only for generations later where people are shrewdly balancing pennies and pounds, seeing which way they should vote.
All those rebels should have sat down and worked out the financial pros and cons as it affected their wallets, before causing such destruction. If only they had half a brain ::)

Couldn't agree more Main Street, they would be turning in their graves but it is bound to be a serious concern for SF. If you and Mrs Main Street were going to be e.g £300-£400 worse off every month in a UI, or you had to go the doctor next week and had to pull the cheque book out. Are you trying to tell me that this has not to be considered??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 24, 2013, 09:58:52 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 09:36:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 05:47:57 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 05:02:45 PM
Cant say either way saffron, but the point  im making is. Anyone with half a brain will take a look at the economic effect and if it is going to hit their pocket on a weekly or monthly basis they have to have a serious look at it. Republicans have fought for a united Ireland for decades and now that there is a possiblity of a Border Poll, it will be interesting to see what they will do if it ends up costing them e.g  £100-£150
£100 - £150??  Imagine the sheer reckless stupidity of the old rebels who endured hardships, jail, torture, laid their priceless lives on the line, for independence from the Empire, only for generations later where people are shrewdly balancing pennies and pounds, seeing which way they should vote.
All those rebels should have sat down and worked out the financial pros and cons as it affected their wallets, before causing such destruction. If only they had half a brain ::)

Couldn't agree more Main Street, they would be turning in their graves but it is bound to be a serious concern for SF. If you and Mrs Main Street were going to be e.g £300-£400 worse off every month in a UI, or you had to go the doctor next week and had to pull the cheque book out. Are you trying to tell me that this has not to be considered??
Of course it is a consideration especially for the squeezed middle. It's an easy box to tick for the well off or those on the bru in the North, who let's face it are likely to be at least as well off on the face of it. The thousands struggling to pay the bills every month will have to think long and hard about whether they want to live in a smaller house in a 32 county Ireland. It isnt as cut and dried as some people think. A chap on Nolan made the point last night that SF must be kicking themselves trying to sell a UI when the Rep is in such bad shape economically.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
what maskey should have said 1. the health service thing.. we here in norn iron send our heart patients to dublin for surgery. we also just sent 3 government ministers and their mates to cuba to learn how to run a world class health service on a shoestring budget. would arlene like to live in a dictatorship... obviously not. the level of health care in any country is set by the elected government. it can be as bad or as good as you want.
2. the bank debt.. norn iron has been part of the uk for nearly a century when it was created its industry was the stuff of legend and the envy of the free world. since then britain has stripped it to the bone, the proud unionist work ethic has disappeared in exchange for a slum mentality of handouts and sickness benefits. even now work is plentiful in england while in the 6 counties we are floundering hardly 'as british as finchley'. the 26 counties started out with little or no industry and in isolation following poor decision making re WW1. hated and not trusted in britain and America the two victors. then add a mixture of crap leaders, nepotism,cronyism,treachery,theft, fraud,greed and the rotten den of paedophilia that is the catholic church and add mass emigration.  yet despite this poor start the 26 has survived.
while there is a hiccup in the finances of the 26 at the moment, we here in the "kidney" of the uk cannot really point to anything that remains of the great place the 6 counties used to be nor is there any chance of that situation changing. yet we know the 26 will dig their way out of the mess and probably be the better for it.
3. as has been said in a united ireland the Unionists would probably end up running the place because they'd end up holding the balance of power. that has to better than sitting in Parliament at nordie question time talking to the empty seats.

and on and on maskey needs to brush up if hes going to try to sell a united ireland. or join this board ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 24, 2013, 10:11:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.

i.d go with that. maskey was poor he didnt seem too well prepared
Declan Kearney didn't have a clue on Hearts & Minds last year either. Has anyone in SF actually thought this through, or considered anything other than the 'romance' of it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 11:14:21 PM
sec. of state teresa villiers the self proclaimed unionist...? no border poll for tereasa she pigeon holed herself on her arrival and the shinners have turned the spotlight on her. like big al she doesnt like bright lights more brains in a false face
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 24, 2013, 11:45:51 PM
QuoteA chap on Nolan made the point last night that SF must be kicking themselves trying to sell a UI when the Rep is in such bad shape economically.

SF, like Bill Gates, probably think things will improve in the Republic.
The state of the Republics economy isn't really the issue though, the problem is the state of the 6 counties. Most nationalists want a united Ireland where all parts are equal, not where one part is an appendage of the other. The 6 counties isn't able to play its part and SF have no policy to enable it to do so, nor even an indication of the need for a policy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 25, 2013, 03:13:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 24, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 24, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
I have to agree with you there. If this poll is about starting a debate then fine. But as things stand there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a majority of nationalists let alone an overall majority voting for a united Ireland. Before that happens we need to know what this unified state is going to look like. Listen to Conal McDevitt of the SDLP, he keeps reiterating that the debate needs to take place among nationalist first and formost.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are Conal McDevitt.
And I know who you are! #keep her lit!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 25, 2013, 03:27:50 PM
Sending street fighters like Maskey to take on Arlene is an embarrassment. The shinners need to start engaging with all shades of nationalist opinion. A United Ireland as a concept could be sold and accepted by a majority, however a lot of work needs to be done. It most certainly won't be a left wing workers republic and in its infancy will probably be federal in nature with the Brits underwriting some of the cost...which would suit the exchequer as there would be a net saving. Proper consideration and costings need to be done with the health service. The NHS cannot continue as it is and the Southern Health Service badly needs reform as well. I cringed when Maskey started talking about the Middle eastern conflicts. It is time for Adams to go, he's so proud of the 'RA he can't even admit to membership and his hands aren't completely clean regarding the brother's antics in Dundalk. Bring back Conor Murphy with John O'Dowd and Gerry Kelly and start working towards nationalist unity or at least concensus.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 25, 2013, 03:29:47 PM
Maskey was nothing short of woeful.  Came across as totally unprepared.  Foster didn't have to counter his arguments...he didn't have any arguments to make!!  Has anyone in SF in the North done any research on how a UI would work (other than the fleg)??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:14:52 PM
Just watched Maskey on Nolan. Brutal. How can SF not have a response to the most obvious of questions?

We also have Martina Anderson saying that republicans don't believe the poll will be successful:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/03/15/sinn-fein-does-not-expect-to-win-a-border-poll-but-would-relish-the-opportunity-for-a-public-conversation/

Should SF not have had their own conversation before Gerry announced his campaign?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:19:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
what maskey should have said 1. the health service thing.. we here in norn iron send our heart patients to dublin for surgery.
And if Arlene had been on her toes, she could have responded that that was proof that you don't need political unification to have co-operation, where it's clearly beneficial.

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
3. as has been said in a united ireland the Unionists would probably end up running the place because they'd end up holding the balance of power. that has to better than sitting in Parliament at nordie question time talking to the empty seats.
That argument is unlikely to hold any water for Unionists. Would SF be convinced on the union if they held the balance of power at Westminster?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 25, 2013, 07:23:55 PM
its worth remembering that while we are have this discussion on the sinn fein thread that sinn fein are not the only party trying to unite this island. so where are the stoops, the blueshirts, irish labour and fianna fail? the majority of political parties on this island "claim" to be republican. why aren't they also calling for a referendum and trying to work toward a united ireland. its hardly credible to criticize sinn fein for doing exactly what they say they re going to do in every election they contest
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
2. the bank debt.. norn iron has been part of the uk for nearly a century when it was created its industry was the stuff of legend and the envy of the free world.
You do realise that it was part of the UK before 1921 as well?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on January 25, 2013, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:14:52 PM
Just watched Maskey on Nolan. Brutal. How can SF not have a response to the most obvious of questions?

We also have Martina Anderson saying that republicans don't believe the poll will be successful:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/03/15/sinn-fein-does-not-expect-to-win-a-border-poll-but-would-relish-the-opportunity-for-a-public-conversation/

Should SF not have had their own conversation before Gerry announced his campaign?

SF are trying to ride two horses here, you'll see it tearing them down the middle shortly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 25, 2013, 07:23:55 PM
its worth remembering that while we are have this discussion on the sinn fein thread that sinn fein are not the only party trying to unite this island. so where are the stoops, the blueshirts, irish labour and fianna fail? the majority of political parties on this island "claim" to be republican. why aren't they also calling for a referendum and trying to work toward a united ireland. its hardly credible to criticize sinn fein for doing exactly what they say they re going to do in every election they contest
Apart from the SDLP's reference to a border poll in their latest manifesto - an ill-advised response to SF's manifesto - show us where FF, FG or Labour have called for this in their recent manifestos.

Whilst it's an aspiration for many, I imagine it's a current priority for few.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 25, 2013, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:19:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
what maskey should have said 1. the health service thing.. we here in norn iron send our heart patients to dublin for surgery.
And if Arlene had been on her toes, she could have responded that that was proof that you don't need political unification to have co-operation, where it's clearly beneficial.

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
3. as has been said in a united ireland the Unionists would probably end up running the place because they'd end up holding the balance of power. that has to better than sitting in Parliament at nordie question time talking to the empty seats.
That argument is unlikely to hold any water for Unionists. Would SF be convinced on the union if they held the balance of power at Westminster?
its the same doctor maguire.. he sees you in belfast, recomends you for surgery, then meets you in dublin and does the operation ::)
as i said the level of free health care in any country is set by the government in power. re cuba.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 25, 2013, 07:42:42 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 25, 2013, 07:23:55 PM
its worth remembering that while we are have this discussion on the sinn fein thread that sinn fein are not the only party trying to unite this island. so where are the stoops, the blueshirts, irish labour and fianna fail? the majority of political parties on this island "claim" to be republican. why aren't they also calling for a referendum and trying to work toward a united ireland. its hardly credible to criticize sinn fein for doing exactly what they say they re going to do in every election they contest

In multi-party systems the parties rarely all agree on the same thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:57:51 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 25, 2013, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:19:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
what maskey should have said 1. the health service thing.. we here in norn iron send our heart patients to dublin for surgery.
And if Arlene had been on her toes, she could have responded that that was proof that you don't need political unification to have co-operation, where it's clearly beneficial.

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
3. as has been said in a united ireland the Unionists would probably end up running the place because they'd end up holding the balance of power. that has to better than sitting in Parliament at nordie question time talking to the empty seats.
That argument is unlikely to hold any water for Unionists. Would SF be convinced on the union if they held the balance of power at Westminster?
its the same doctor maguire.. he sees you in belfast, recomends you for surgery, then meets you in dublin and does the operation ::)
as i said the level of free health care in any country is set by the government in power. re cuba.
I don't follow your argument.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 25, 2013, 08:23:08 PM
Gerry Adams has again called for the release of Marian Price to attend her sisters funeral after she has been refused compassionate parole.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on January 25, 2013, 08:49:34 PM
Disgrace. They are hold Marion illegally as it is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on January 25, 2013, 08:53:25 PM
It said on bbc news she is getting realesed. Where is your source?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 25, 2013, 08:57:44 PM
Family statement she got bail but was refused compassionate parole,disgrace ESP after what that UVF crew have been getting away with the past few months.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on January 25, 2013, 09:05:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
2. the bank debt.. norn iron has been part of the uk for nearly a century when it was created its industry was the stuff of legend and the envy of the free world.
You do realise that it was part of the UK before 1921 as well?

Northern Ireland wasn't part of the UK before 1921, no more than the state of West/East Germany or indeed Germany itself was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Ireland, however, was. The point certainly stands - after partition, despite the fact that Harlaand and other major business men were against Home Rule, the neglect of industry by the Stormont government was legendary. This was because they much preferred agricultural projects and legislation as R.F. Foster in Modern Ireland suggests.

The major thing that seemed to be lost on everyone in the Nolan studio (but thankfully not most in this thread) was that a United Ireland is not simply an extension of the south but a complete renegotiation of the political establishment of this island. In that sense, when Arlene suggested that 'politically, historically, culturally, economically, socially', or however many other ways she wished to put it, the Union made sense, this was only done on the basis of a comparison with the South as it stands.

So, politically the 6 counties would have much more influence in a United Irish Parliament than they enjoy in Westminster, where I'm fairly sure not one of their elected representatives (save Enoch Powell, who was elected in South Down after the fact) has ever had a ministerial position. If devolution was mimicked in any future settlement, then that would also give the north more power than it currently enjoys.

To suggest that partition has either made sense in any terms historically is ludicrous also, because it's been the root cause of a number of violent conflicts as well as an all-island economy of boom and bust.

Culturally, if it can be gauged, there is really no argument as to which island or state is more successful - the smaller one. That said, the idea that state can easily affect culture through legislation is erroneous, as a glance at the cultural policy that Stormont has enacted will prove. If what Foster meant was in terms of cultural identity then it seems that those oft-quoted census figures demonstrate that British national identity is a minority one in the 6 counties.

Economically, there is no doubt in my mind that a lot of money wasted on unnecessary infrastructural/bureaucratic duplication would be saved by ending partition regardless of whatever subsidies are on offer. Even the amount of money Westminster grants Belfast and its hinterland is a fossil fuel that will eventually run out and is, I would suggest, coming to the tail end of its lifespan. For all the claims of economic illiteracy that Foster has made - some of which are valid - I cannot see how Britain will sustain the failed entity in the long term. It makes sense to join up with the south for the simple reason that anytime there is a better offer across the border the citizens of one state will travel to the other. This 'osmosis' factor almost certainly exacerbated the economic crisis down in the 26 counties ironically seeing as, during the Celtic Tiger, northerners went to Dublin to shop for years. Boom and Bust. When one side of the border booms, the other loses trade: we're a nation of cute hoors. It's absolute economic illiteracy for such a small island to allow for this.

Social partitionism is where the real doublethink is going on in Unionism. In terms of justice, the border has been the equivalent of Andy Dufresne's Raquel Welch Poster for wanted criminals. This extends to white collar crime and general gombeenery as we have seen recently with the Quinns.* Less recently Liam Adams, the Columbia Three and even (rumours have it) a burly Fermanagh footballer have taken use of the peculiar constitutional arrangements of this island to escape the forces of justice. Whereas the border is a constant thorn in the side of both police forces, it is seemly nonexistent in terms of social attitudes as one of Nolan's contributors suggested in saying that Jonathan Bell's attitudes were anything but 'British'. Abortion and gay marriage are two particular areas where many of the DUP's hardliners and the southern bead-bashers would find perfect harmony (not that that is something to celebrate).

In any case, if the UK leaves Europe there's not only the real possibility of custom posts (again), but also the north voting to stay in/out Europe while the UK says different. That happens, and all bets are off.



*The appellations 'crime' and 'gombeenery' here is not meant to imply guilt, before we get into that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2013, 09:18:30 PM
And will Scotland vote to leave the UK???
That could put some cats among a lot of pigeons.

As for Sinn Féin not seeming to know what they want... it seems they just want to have a poll and are obviously of the view that the status quo will win this time around so they haven't thought it through at all.

I already, on a number of occasions on this Board, pointed out the blueprint for the future All Ireland entity - a Confederation with the present 2 "Jurisdictions" being semi autonomous regions with slimmed down Dáil/Stormont running certain local affairs and the "Irish Comfederation" running  major and international affairs.
Obviously the Brits will have to be part of it if Northern "Ulster British" people want to retain British Citizenship/passports into the future, which they should be allowed to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on January 25, 2013, 09:28:34 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 25, 2013, 08:42:40 PM
Refused compassionate parole? Fcukin hell!

I cannot understand how they are getting away with their treatment of Marian Price. It's fcukin scandalous.

The judge granted her bail today, and then realised she had been granted bail before. The last time the state stepped in and refused to release her. Now, the parole board have decided to stop her from going to her sisters funeral. Not long ago she wasn't allowed to attend her mothers funeral.

The way Marian has been treated has been beyond humane, and we need more than words at this stage to get her released considering her health.

No matter what people may think of her, she at least deserves to be allowed to say goodbye to her sister and attend her funeral.


Statement from the family of Marian Price McGlinchey.

We have received news that Marian's application for compassionate parole following the tragic death of her sister Dolours has been refused, despite her being granted bail earlier today.

Given Marian's current health issues it is laughable that she would pose any kind of security or flight risk. We feel this decision is nothing more than a continuance of a vicious and vindictive campaign on the part of the Prison Service, the Department of Justice and the British secretary of state along with M15 to destroy Marian both physically and mentally.

We would urge all right thinking people to utterly condemn this blatant breach of Marian's fundamental human rights.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 26, 2013, 12:58:25 AM
Absolutely f*****g disgusting treatment of Marion Price and her family.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 26, 2013, 02:33:55 AM
The Shinner record never changes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 26, 2013, 09:35:28 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 26, 2013, 02:33:55 AM
The Shinner record never changes.

What record is that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on January 26, 2013, 01:06:02 PM
Utterly disgusting decision.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2013, 02:33:07 PM
Quote
No matter what people may think of her, she at least deserves to be allowed to say goodbye to her sister and attend her funeral.

+1


QuoteWhat record is that?

Probably something from the Wolfe Tones?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: hairierarea on January 26, 2013, 03:47:20 PM
Excellent post there from stibhan.

On the question of why Sinn Féin are looking this border poll when there seems no hope in hell of winning it, I wonder if there is some strategic thinking behind it. The City Hall flag issue brought (a minority) of working-class loyalists into conflict with the state on an issue which didn't seem rationally to merit the anger. SF might be imagining that a border poll might provoke an even bigger reaction from these elements and throw Unionism into serious disarray when so many of the tectonic plates of the Union and EU are moving so unpredictably. But hopefully, some serious discussion of the realistic merits of new and radical solutions would get a better airing than on the Nolan show fail.

Serious dark age stuff in the treatment of Marion Price.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 26, 2013, 04:07:33 PM
Ian the Elder has lost it completely: http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0126/364639-border-poll/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0126/364639-border-poll/)

He is nice to the 26 counties and urges Northern Politicians to think of the children.

Has he had a rhetoroptamy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on January 26, 2013, 04:39:30 PM
Ian's right on this one, Unionism playing with fire calling SF's bluff over a border poll, it has zero chance of success but Pandora's box will be opened & there'll be polls every 7 years until we eventually get there - assuming the first one doesn't end in a humiliating defeat for pro-UI parties & i actually think there'd be a strong chance of that happening.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2013, 08:05:35 PM
The present initiative is premature, but I'd say that SF are in no hurry, they just want the idea out there. However the DUP don't just have the possibility of ignoring it, in the next decade or so there will be an election (local, Euro, assembly or even Westminster) when the votes for nationalist parties will exceed that for unionist parties (with a large block in the middle). Such an event would have triggered the need for discussion on the matter anyway.

There is a long and windy road ahead.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on January 26, 2013, 08:35:23 PM
The more you think about it, the most successful tactic from Unionism here would be to support the border poll and in the face of the economic fortunes of both regions revel in the likely outcome of a substantial 70-30 victory.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like dickhead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2013, 10:59:01 PM
Quotethe outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein

More likely the association with SF will discredit the entire UI project.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 26, 2013, 11:04:13 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out
I have absolutely no idea what that means.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
mayo when we take over we will clean the place up. bye bye gombeens, bye bye sliveens, bye bye quangos, bye bye huge pensions. hello fair taxation and sustainable growth and investment in jobs for the ordinary man.

first and foremost bye bye marty whelan what a rotten fukr
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 27, 2013, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
mayo when we take over we will clean the place up. bye bye gombeens, bye bye sliveens, bye bye quangos, bye bye huge pensions. hello fair taxation and sustainable growth and investment in jobs for the ordinary man.

first and foremost bye bye marty whelan what a rotten fukr

Your posts are great entertainment, but I still haven't figured out if you actually believe a word of what you type!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on January 27, 2013, 11:52:29 AM
There is no 'long term' plan with border polls by Sinn Fein. As a party they don't do long term.

As they can't win the poll, there's two main reasons for pursuing it:

One is a nod to the genuinely republican party members who had to be convinced/bullied away from armed struggle, a 'look at least we are trying' kind of thing.

The other is, quite simply, related to a lack of long term plan. Sinn Fein don't have real world policies. There's no grasp on economic realities. In truth I'd be shocked if they could run a sports centre let alone a country. But if they all spend the next few years frantically talking about, campaigning for, then reflecting upon a border poll, they can continue to pay lip service to what they're meant to be doing in government. And with occasional gentle jolt of the company line, their supporters won't even notice that they're not doing what they're meant to do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 12:32:33 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 27, 2013, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
mayo when we take over we will clean the place up. bye bye gombeens, bye bye sliveens, bye bye quangos, bye bye huge pensions. hello fair taxation and sustainable growth and investment in jobs for the ordinary man.

first and foremost bye bye marty whelan what a rotten fukr

Your posts are great entertainment, but I still haven't figured out if you actually believe a word of what you type!

did you believe enda when he promised.. roscommon hospital is safe.. we will not raise taxes.. we will not raise our advisors wages.. we will not get our families into cosy gov. jobs.. i'll sort out bank debt.. fine gael have been liars for 80 years
why do you believe him and you dont believe me! maybe if i was from mayo or wore a nice suit or maybe if i was in receipt of a huge wage and going to get a huge pension you'd believe me. sinn fein will sort out the mess lets call it "nordification"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 27, 2013, 12:39:13 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
mayo when we take over we will clean the place up. bye bye gombeens, bye bye sliveens, bye bye quangos, bye bye huge pensions. hello fair taxation and sustainable growth and investment in jobs for the ordinary man.

first and foremost bye bye marty whelan what a rotten fukr

:D :D :D

I love reading the Willie Frazer of the GAA board.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 12:44:47 PM
join by text that's handy. text sinnfein followed by your name and address to 60060.

just got the new campaign literature looks good

sliveens and gombeens just became an endangered species
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 27, 2013, 12:47:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
mayo when we take over we will clean the place up. bye bye gombeens, bye bye sliveens, bye bye quangos, bye bye huge pensions. hello fair taxation and sustainable growth and investment in jobs for the ordinary man.

first and foremost bye bye marty whelan what a rotten fukr

In conclusion SF is promising exactly what FF and the rest of the opposition are promising and what the last opposition promised before they got in. I can see why you think it is the promised land.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2013, 12:47:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
mayo when we take over we will clean the place up. bye bye gombeens, bye bye sliveens, bye bye quangos, bye bye huge pensions. hello fair taxation and sustainable growth and investment in jobs for the ordinary man.

first and foremost bye bye marty whelan what a rotten fukr

In conclusion SF is promising exactly what FF and the rest of the opposition are promising and what the last opposition promised before they got in. I can see why you think it is the promised land.
it worked for fine gael and labour maybe shinners are not as good at lying
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 02:07:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2013, 12:47:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
mayo when we take over we will clean the place up. bye bye gombeens, bye bye sliveens, bye bye quangos, bye bye huge pensions. hello fair taxation and sustainable growth and investment in jobs for the ordinary man.

first and foremost bye bye marty whelan what a rotten fukr

In conclusion SF is promising exactly what FF and the rest of the opposition are promising and what the last opposition promised before they got in. I can see why you think it is the promised land.
it worked for fine gael and labour maybe shinners are not as good at lying

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D and they were never in the IRA  ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)

You know why people choose FG and Labour as much as they dislike much of what they do, its because they voters of the Irish Republic (not the South - that's Munster, or Mexico - that's in North America, not the Irish Free State - that was replaced by the only Republic on the Island of Ireland) want Ireland (the state by it's official name) to come out of this. This will not happen with the Khmer Rouge of Irish politics getting their ink jet stained hands on power in our Republic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 02:10:46 PM
I think I found you on youtube Lawnseed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfAeMtcURg0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfAeMtcURg0)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 27, 2013, 02:35:57 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 12:32:33 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 27, 2013, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
mayo when we take over we will clean the place up. bye bye gombeens, bye bye sliveens, bye bye quangos, bye bye huge pensions. hello fair taxation and sustainable growth and investment in jobs for the ordinary man.

first and foremost bye bye marty whelan what a rotten fukr

Your posts are great entertainment, but I still haven't figured out if you actually believe a word of what you type!

did you believe enda when he promised.. roscommon hospital is safe.. we will not raise taxes.. we will not raise our advisors wages.. we will not get our families into cosy gov. jobs.. i'll sort out bank debt.. fine gael have been liars for 80 years
why do you believe him and you dont believe me! maybe if i was from mayo or wore a nice suit or maybe if i was in receipt of a huge wage and going to get a huge pension you'd believe me. sinn fein will sort out the mess lets call it "nordification"
They have done a fine job in the North  ???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 27, 2013, 02:43:54 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 12:32:33 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 27, 2013, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 04:30:32 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 26, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
the proposed border poll is nothing to do with the 6 counties or the dup or britain! the proposal is a trap set to catch out 'mexican' politicians who dive in head first and oppose it. like d**khead gilmore. how does it look for an irish politician to oppose the unification of his own country? 800 years blah blah..  its a slow death for them like tax on childrens shoes. the outcome of any such poll proposed by sinn fein could be some how linked in the mind of would be "yes" voters to sinn fein getting into a future 26 county government and therefore making the south a more attractive place to them. ie dunging the place out

What is your point about Mexico? What has a country in the Western Hemisphere do with anything. You have one grand sense of entitlement. The people of the Irish Republic don't owe you anything. Perhaps it's the good people of the 6 counties who need to ammend their ways than your regular assumptions that it is the fair people of the Independent Irish Republic. I doubht SF will be part of the govrnment of the Republic in the next 15-20 years.
mayo when we take over we will clean the place up. bye bye gombeens, bye bye sliveens, bye bye quangos, bye bye huge pensions. hello fair taxation and sustainable growth and investment in jobs for the ordinary man.

first and foremost bye bye marty whelan what a rotten fukr

Your posts are great entertainment, but I still haven't figured out if you actually believe a word of what you type!

did you believe enda when he promised.. roscommon hospital is safe.. we will not raise taxes.. we will not raise our advisors wages.. we will not get our families into cosy gov. jobs.. i'll sort out bank debt.. fine gael have been liars for 80 years
why do you believe him and you dont believe me! maybe if i was from mayo or wore a nice suit or maybe if i was in receipt of a huge wage and going to get a huge pension you'd believe me. sinn fein will sort out the mess lets call it "nordification"

Yes, that's exactly what's needed. Tribal warfare followed by barely contained contempt, followed by the protagonists cosying up to each other in their plush offices while a large, poorly educated, work-shy working class take to the streets rioting over an issue they don't seem to understand.
How soon can you bring us this type of progress?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2013, 05:33:15 PM
Lawnseed do you really believe that if you and the Shinners Party cannot convince the generally nationalist &/or republican born and bred 26 county folk on this board, what hope in hell have you with the rest of the population?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 10:30:59 AM
Mayo, I really think you are a genius at stirring it up. If we want a rational debate on the whole reunification project then we need to stop references to Mexico, Free State, Nordies etc... I don't agree with Arlene Forster much, but she hit the nail on the head when she told Alex Maskey that Sinn Fein were economically illiterate. Masky couldn't even muster a coherent reply. There may well be an economic argument for Unity as well as it being a noble aspiration, if so lets here it. If the call for a border poll is only meant to start the debate then that's fine but SF should say so. If it is electioneering and aimed at exposing the very real hypocrisy of FF and FG then that is totally disrespectful of all those in the North who voted for SF. The reunification of Ireland within the UK should also be seriously considered in addition to all the possible Irish only solutions. That is if we are serious about reaching out to our Unionist fellow Irishmen...or is that just more SF bluff and BS?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 10:30:59 AM
Mayo, I really think you are a genius at stirring it up. If we want a rational debate on the whole reunification project then we need to stop references to Mexico, Free State, Nordies etc... I don't agree with Arlene Forster much, but she hit the nail on the head when she told Alex Maskey that Sinn Fein were economically illiterate. Masky couldn't even muster a coherent reply. There may well be an economic argument for Unity as well as it being a noble aspiration, if so lets here it. If the call for a border poll is only meant to start the debate then that's fine but SF should say so. If it is electioneering and aimed at exposing the very real hypocrisy of FF and FG then that is totally disrespectful of all those in the North who voted for SF. The reunification of Ireland within the UK should also be seriously considered in addition to all the possible Irish only solutions. That is if we are serious about reaching out to our Unionist fellow Irishmen...or is that just more SF bluff and BS?

This is an important point. SF represents two different things either side of the border.

Those of us in the South might see them in a new light if we had to grow up policed by the RUC/UDR and ruled by Unionists. Those from the North might view them differently if they saw the Marxist regime they have in mind for us all. It could easily be worse than the RUC/UDR etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 11:11:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
This is an important point. SF represents two different things either side of the border.
At least they exist and function on both sides of the border; something which still cannot be said about the self titled 'United Ireland Party' or about 'The Republican Party'. Makes you wonder...how can a party give itself such a grand non-partitionist title, but refuse to function north of the border? Must be called (to paraphrase you, muppet) "representing two different things on one side of the border".

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
Those of us in the South might see them in a new light if we had to grow up policed by the RUC/UDR and ruled by Unionists. Those from the North might view them differently if they saw the Marxist regime they have in mind for us all. It could easily be worse than the RUC/UDR etc.
Hard to bate a bit of the ol' sensationalism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 28, 2013, 11:30:44 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 10:30:59 AM
Mayo, I really think you are a genius at stirring it up. If we want a rational debate on the whole reunification project then we need to stop references to Mexico, Free State, Nordies etc... I don't agree with Arlene Forster much, but she hit the nail on the head when she told Alex Maskey that Sinn Fein were economically illiterate. Masky couldn't even muster a coherent reply. There may well be an economic argument for Unity as well as it being a noble aspiration, if so lets here it. If the call for a border poll is only meant to start the debate then that's fine but SF should say so. If it is electioneering and aimed at exposing the very real hypocrisy of FF and FG then that is totally disrespectful of all those in the North who voted for SF. The reunification of Ireland within the UK should also be seriously considered in addition to all the possible Irish only solutions. That is if we are serious about reaching out to our Unionist fellow Irishmen...or is that just more SF bluff

The 26 join the U.K. It's a never, never, never from me. Within a United States of Europe, now that I would welcome.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 28, 2013, 11:33:11 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 11:11:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
This is an important point. SF represents two different things either side of the border.
At least they exist and function on both sides of the border; something which still cannot be said about the self titled 'United Ireland Party' or about 'The Republican Party'. Makes you wonder...how can a party give itself such a grand non-partitionist title, but refuse to function north of the border? Must be called (to paraphrase you, muppet) "representing two different things on one side of the border".

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
Those of us in the South might see them in a new light if we had to grow up policed by the RUC/UDR and ruled by Unionists. Those from the North might view them differently if they saw the Marxist regime they have in mind for us all. It could easily be worse than the RUC/UDR etc.
Hard to bate a bit of the ol' sensationalism.

O you know us Fine Gaelers always able to spot a red under the bed ;) Jokes aside I always wondered how the Commie-Catholic thing is going to work!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 11:11:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
This is an important point. SF represents two different things either side of the border.
At least they exist and function on both sides of the border; something which still cannot be said about the self titled 'United Ireland Party' or about 'The Republican Party'. Makes you wonder...how can a party give itself such a grand non-partitionist title, but refuse to function north of the border? Must be called (to paraphrase you, muppet) "representing two different things on one side of the border".


In conclusion themmuns are worse.
Quote
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
Those of us in the South might see them in a new light if we had to grow up policed by the RUC/UDR and ruled by Unionists. Those from the North might view them differently if they saw the Marxist regime they have in mind for us all. It could easily be worse than the RUC/UDR etc.
Hard to bate a bit of the ol' sensationalism.

No denial though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 28, 2013, 11:57:06 AM
If Sinn Féin want to get above the 15% mark in elections in the 26 they'll have to move towards the already overcrowded Centre.
They'll also have to stop going around opposing tax increase while calling for more public expenditure at the same time.

And of course the "Lawnseededness" will have to be jettisoned  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 12:00:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 11:11:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
This is an important point. SF represents two different things either side of the border.
At least they exist and function on both sides of the border; something which still cannot be said about the self titled 'United Ireland Party' or about 'The Republican Party'. Makes you wonder...how can a party give itself such a grand non-partitionist title, but refuse to function north of the border? Must be called (to paraphrase you, muppet) "representing two different things on one side of the border".


In conclusion themmuns are worse.
By quite a long way. Not least for the reason outlined above.

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 11:11:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 11:45:09 AM
Those of us in the South might see them in a new light if we had to grow up policed by the RUC/UDR and ruled by Unionists. Those from the North might view them differently if they saw the Marxist regime they have in mind for us all. It could easily be worse than the RUC/UDR etc.
Hard to bate a bit of the ol' sensationalism.
No denial though.
Hardly necessary. Your remark goes into the same category of gleeful sensationalism as comments such as "the IRA butchered thousands of innocent people" (Jim Allister) or "The IRA were behind the horseburger scandal" (Willy Frazer). Suitable company.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 12:19:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 12:00:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 11:11:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
This is an important point. SF represents two different things either side of the border.
At least they exist and function on both sides of the border; something which still cannot be said about the self titled 'United Ireland Party' or about 'The Republican Party'. Makes you wonder...how can a party give itself such a grand non-partitionist title, but refuse to function north of the border? Must be called (to paraphrase you, muppet) "representing two different things on one side of the border".


In conclusion themmuns are worse.
By quite a long way. Not least for the reason outlined above.

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:49:05 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 11:11:54 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 11:45:09 AM
Those of us in the South might see them in a new light if we had to grow up policed by the RUC/UDR and ruled by Unionists. Those from the North might view them differently if they saw the Marxist regime they have in mind for us all. It could easily be worse than the RUC/UDR etc.
Hard to bate a bit of the ol' sensationalism.
No denial though.
Hardly necessary. Your remark goes into the same category of gleeful sensationalism as comments such as "the IRA butchered thousands of innocent people" (Jim Allister) or "The IRA were behind the horseburger scandal" (Willy Frazer). Suitable company.

Hard to bate a bit of sensationalism, isn't it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on January 28, 2013, 12:28:14 PM
Of course Sinn Féin represent two different things on each side of the border - ever since they decided to stand for elections and take their seats in both jurisdictions, they have had to formulate different strategies for each state because of the peculiar situation in which the north and south found themselves in. The fact that modern provisional Sinn Féin was founded in Belfast, and that the Official IRA from whom they split controlled major state media and broadcast institutions in the 1970's South had a large impact on their public and political image.

That is outwith the fact that they already had a solid nationalist base in the north as opposed to a more grass-roots, underground base in the south. The reality is that if you aren't actively campaigning for election and representation in a state, and instead are repudiating the means of representation, then unless there is a significant social factor to foster solidarity with your voters (Catholics being second class citizens in the north) you will find it difficult to retain interest.

Despite these differences, they still retain a more coherent political strategy in terms of the north than any other party you'd care to name in the south.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 12:50:53 PM
They are implementing cuts in the North that they attack in the South.

This is from the SF website on Economy, apparently without a hint of irony.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy (http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy)

QuoteThose who claimed that they, and they alone, knew how to run the economy have been exposed for the fraudsters that they are. Sinn Féin was berated when we pointed out the obvious flaws in government policy – the creation of a property bubble, the over reliance on consumption taxes, the growing gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots', the rewarding of private greed at the expense of the public good, the failure to think strategically and in the long term interests of the citizens.

We were right on these matters.

QuoteWe can build a country and an economy that creates wealth and shares wealth, that is based on enterprising excellence and social solidarity. A country defined by Irish values of decency, fair play and celebration of achievement.

We can do this because that is who we are. That is what we are about, that is what our economy must be about. We need a plan to achieve this. We need leadership and Sinn Féin can offer it.

Comic genius.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 01:20:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2013, 11:57:06 AM
If Sinn Féin want to get above the 15% mark in elections in the 26 they'll have to move towards the already overcrowded Centre.
They'll also have to stop going around opposing tax increase while calling for more public expenditure at the same time.

And of course the "Lawnseededness" will have to be jettisoned  ;D
As Arlene said economically illiterate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on January 28, 2013, 01:59:00 PM
Fúck, if Arlene is calling anyone economically illiterate, then that is the worst insult imaginable.

She hasn't got the first notion herself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2013, 02:22:05 PM

http://thebrokenelbow.com/2013/01/24/dolours-price-rip/#comments

I know from conversations with her that DP had concluded that the Provos campaign was going nowhere, that it had been irredeemably infiltrated by the British and that it was pointless continuing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:07:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 12:50:53 PM
They are implementing tory cuts in the North that they attack in the South.
Fixed that for you. SF has no fiscal control in the north. If I were living in the 26, I'd be more concerned about the economic literacy of successive government parties in the south who did have fiscal control/surrendered so much fiscal sovereignty/bankrupted the state/continue implementing the disastrous policies they expended so much effort into condemning.

Quote
"Anglo Irish Bank is not getting another cent of our money and any bank coming to us looking for more money is going to have to show how they're going to impose losses on their junior bondholders, on their senior bondholders and their other creditors before they come looking to us for anymore money. Not another cent." (Leo Varadkar)

Quote
"We are also committed to maintaining the services in Roscommon County Hosiptal. You know down in the Accident and Emergency Unit what it takes and what needs to be done, and what can be done in your own local hospital here. And we will protect and defend that." (Enda Kenny)

Comic genius alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 28, 2013, 04:04:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:07:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 12:50:53 PM
They are implementing tory cuts in the North that they attack in the South.
Fixed that for you. SF has no fiscal control in the north. If I were living in the 26, I'd be more concerned about the economic literacy of successive government parties in the south who did have fiscal control/surrendered so much fiscal sovereignty/bankrupted the state/continue implementing the disastrous policies they expended so much effort into condemning.

Quote
"Anglo Irish Bank is not getting another cent of our money and any bank coming to us looking for more money is going to have to show how they're going to impose losses on their junior bondholders, on their senior bondholders and their other creditors before they come looking to us for anymore money. Not another cent." (Leo Varadkar)

Quote
"We are also committed to maintaining the services in Roscommon County Hosiptal. You know down in the Accident and Emergency Unit what it takes and what needs to be done, and what can be done in your own local hospital here. And we will protect and defend that." (Enda Kenny)

Comic genius alright.

A bit like "not an ounce, not a bullett" eh?? :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2013, 04:04:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:07:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 12:50:53 PM
They are implementing tory cuts in the North that they attack in the South.
Fixed that for you. SF has no fiscal control in the north. If I were living in the 26, I'd be more concerned about the economic literacy of successive government parties in the south who did have fiscal control/surrendered so much fiscal sovereignty/bankrupted the state/continue implementing the disastrous policies they expended so much effort into condemning.

Quote
"Anglo Irish Bank is not getting another cent of our money and any bank coming to us looking for more money is going to have to show how they're going to impose losses on their junior bondholders, on their senior bondholders and their other creditors before they come looking to us for anymore money. Not another cent." (Leo Varadkar)

Quote
"We are also committed to maintaining the services in Roscommon County Hosiptal. You know down in the Accident and Emergency Unit what it takes and what needs to be done, and what can be done in your own local hospital here. And we will protect and defend that." (Enda Kenny)

Comic genius alright.

A bit like "not an ounce, not a bullett" eh?? :-[

No Sinn Féin election promise ever said such a thing. I believe you are (mis)quoting street graffiti.

(P.s. Not only did you misquote it, but as is the case with a lot of street graffiti, you spelt it wrong)  :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Nally your comic efforts are genuinely funny.

But of course you don't engage on any point.

Everything is everyone else's fault, but SF, who can do no wrong, can fix everything for everybody. You may be surprised but there are people who are sceptical.

Aside from the populist nonsense, one of the biggest problems is the hypocrisy. For example the behaviour over the recent death of a young Gárda contrasts sharply with the Gerry McCabe case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 28, 2013, 04:37:01 PM
Quote from: stibhan on January 28, 2013, 12:28:14 PM
Of course Sinn Féin represent two different things on each side of the border - ever since they decided to stand for elections and take their seats in both jurisdictions, they have had to formulate different strategies for each state because of the peculiar situation in which the north and south found themselves in. The fact that modern provisional Sinn Féin was founded in Belfast, and that the Official IRA from whom they split controlled major state media and broadcast institutions in the 1970's South had a large impact on their public and political image.

That is outwith the fact that they already had a solid nationalist base in the north as opposed to a more grass-roots, underground base in the south. The reality is that if you aren't actively campaigning for election and representation in a state, and instead are repudiating the means of representation, then unless there is a significant social factor to foster solidarity with your voters (Catholics being second class citizens in the north) you will find it difficult to retain interest.

Despite these differences, they still retain a more coherent political strategy in terms of the north than any other party you'd care to name in the south.

As a North of Ireland party I'd expect SF to have some sort of policy towards the North. They are as out of place in the politics of The Republic as the British Conservative Party or French Gaulists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 04:37:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Nally your comic efforts are genuinely funny.
Your arrogance is genuinely as bad as always.

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
But of course you don't engage on any point.
Sorry, I was busy reading some of your recent 'contributions' to the thread, what was that you were saying about hypocrisy?

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Everything is everyone else's fault, but SF, who can do no wrong, can fix everything for everybody. You may be surprised but there are people who are sceptical.
We were talking about the economic shambles of the 26 counties and the utter torture that recent governments have been putting/are continuing to put people through. Blame lies fairly and squarely with FF/FG/Lab. As for "SF can do no wrong", I've criticised them many times on this board.

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Aside from the populist nonsense, one of the biggest problems is the hypocrisy. For example the behaviour over the recent death of a young Gárda contrasts sharply with the Gerry McCabe case.
Populist nonsense? Like Leo's lies about "not a cent"? Or like Enda's "protecting and defending" Roscommon County Hospital? Oh, and if you're going to dig up a victim's name to make cheap shots, at least spell his name correctly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 04:37:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Nally your comic efforts are genuinely funny.
Your arrogance is genuinely as bad as always.

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
But of course you don't engage on any point.
Sorry, I was busy reading some of your recent 'contributions' to the thread, what was that you were saying about hypocrisy?

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Everything is everyone else's fault, but SF, who can do no wrong, can fix everything for everybody. You may be surprised but there are people who are sceptical.
We were talking about the economic shambles of the 26 counties and the utter torture that recent governments have been putting/are continuing to put people through. Blame lies fairly and squarely with FF/FG/Lab. As for "SF can do no wrong", I've criticised them many times on this board.

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Aside from the populist nonsense, one of the biggest problems is the hypocrisy. For example the behaviour over the recent death of a young Gárda contrasts sharply with the Gerry McCabe case.
Populist nonsense? Like Leo's lies about "not a cent"? Or like Enda's "protecting and defending" Roscommon County Hospital? Oh, and if you're going to dig up a victim's name to make cheap shots, at least spell his name correctly.

'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.

Brits killing Irish is hideous, but still not as bad as people pretending to fight for Ireland killing Irish people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.

Brits killing Irish is hideous, but still not as bad as people pretending to fight for Ireland killing Irish people.
Hideous, but seemingly tolerable south of the border. Well, since 1921 anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:24:20 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.

Brits killing Irish is hideous, but still not as bad as people pretending to fight for Ireland killing Irish people.
Hideous, but seemingly tolerable south of the border. Well, since 1921 anyway.

You ignored the bit about Irish people shooting Irish people. No problem with that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:31:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:24:20 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.

Brits killing Irish is hideous, but still not as bad as people pretending to fight for Ireland killing Irish people.
Hideous, but seemingly tolerable south of the border. Well, since 1921 anyway.

You ignored the bit about Irish people shooting Irish people. No problem with that.

Well it seems that was tolerable too. Well, before 1921 anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 06:06:05 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:31:40 PM
Well it seems that was tolerable too. Well, before 1921 anyway.

SF seems to think so. I wouldn't.

As for the Dublin/Monaghan bombers, if people connected to the scum behind that were looking for my vote, I'd be demanding answers from them too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on January 28, 2013, 07:22:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 28, 2013, 04:37:01 PM
Quote from: stibhan on January 28, 2013, 12:28:14 PM
Of course Sinn Féin represent two different things on each side of the border - ever since they decided to stand for elections and take their seats in both jurisdictions, they have had to formulate different strategies for each state because of the peculiar situation in which the north and south found themselves in. The fact that modern provisional Sinn Féin was founded in Belfast, and that the Official IRA from whom they split controlled major state media and broadcast institutions in the 1970's South had a large impact on their public and political image.

That is outwith the fact that they already had a solid nationalist base in the north as opposed to a more grass-roots, underground base in the south. The reality is that if you aren't actively campaigning for election and representation in a state, and instead are repudiating the means of representation, then unless there is a significant social factor to foster solidarity with your voters (Catholics being second class citizens in the north) you will find it difficult to retain interest.

Despite these differences, they still retain a more coherent political strategy in terms of the north than any other party you'd care to name in the south.

As a North of Ireland party I'd expect SF to have some sort of policy towards the North. They are as out of place in the politics of The Republic as the British Conservative Party or French Gaulists.

That is a ridiculous comparison, and I'm not entirely sure how you see a lack of policy in Sinn Féin with regards the 6 counties?

As I see it, their policy 'towards' the north is dictated by the day-to-day situations they find themselves in as they govern up there. They have a pragmatic attitude towards the short-term improvement of a) public services; b) community and political relations; c) equality in all aspects of culture & society; and d) job creation. Their long-term solution is no secret, and this seems to be fairly well reflected in Adams' call for a border poll last weekend.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 28, 2013, 08:07:20 PM
QuoteAs I see it, their policy 'towards' the north is dictated by the day-to-day situations they find themselves in as they govern up there. They have a pragmatic attitude towards the short-term improvement of a) public services; b) community and political relations; c) equality in all aspects of culture & society; and d) job creation. Their long-term solution is no secret, and this seems to be fairly well reflected in Adams' call for a border poll last weekend

In order for Adams border poll to work, then public expenditure in NI must be reduced and tax income must be increased.
What policies (notwithstanding any lack of fiscal control) do SF have to
- reduce NI public expenditure?
- increase NI tax take?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 08:08:15 PM
All bickering aside, this shooting in Louth could be an opportunity to do something positive.

It is time to move for a cross-border policing arrangement. This would lead to greater pooling of resources and an end to thugs hiding behind the notional border. Nationalists/Republicans would surely be all for it, with the exception of the Dissidents and other criminals. The apprehension of Dissidents in turn could be used to persuade Unionists of the value of such an agreement.

Will any party step up?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 28, 2013, 08:27:53 PM
Re the All Ireland poll and interesing post on Politics.ie. It seems that the NI tickers on the census form probably vote nationalist.
------------------------------------
I analysed the census data of 2011 and correlated it with the NI election results to get a more accurate breakdown of the figures specifically in relation to the "northern Irish only" percentage, these are the areas i have completed so far. i think the figures demonstrate that practically all of the people who choose the "northern irish only" option must come exclusively from the nationalist catholic demographic as it is the only way that the numbers fit with the election results on the other side the "british only" and "british and NI" or "british and irish" etc options correlate with the entire protestant community and fits perfectly into the election results. Also the term irish/northern irish is present to a not insignificant degree in the the total perentage generated for the protestant communty.

Newry and Morne
79.4% catholic
18% protestant
100%= 29 seats
Nationalist = 23 seats =79.3%
Unionist = 5 seats = 17.2%

census 2011
Irish only 49.75% Irish and northern Irish only (I+NI) 1.74% and northern Irish (NI) only 23.1% =74.59%
british only 16.87 + British and NI (B+NI) only 2.11= 18.98%


Down district Council
62.5% catholic
32.1% protestant
seats 23
Nationalist seats= 14 = 60.86 %
Unionist seats = 6 = 28.57%

census 2011
British only = 33.06% + british and NI only 4.27% = 37.33%
Irish only 28.22% , NI only 26.98%, I+NI 1.37 = 56.57 %


Dungannon and South tyrone
Catholic 64.1%
Protestant 33%
22 seats
Nationalist = 12 = 54.54%
Unionist 10= 45.45%

Census 2011
Irish only 35.68 % I+ NI only = 1.32%, NI only = 21.96% = 58.96%
British only 26.51%,, B+NI only 3.06%, B+NI+I= 0.55%= 30.12%

Ballymena
Catholic 22.6%
Protestant 71.4%
seats 24
Nationalist = 4 = 16.6%
Unionist = 16= 66.6%

Census 2011
British only = 57.87% + british and NI only= 8.96% = 66.83%
Irish only= 8.81% + I=NI only = 0.58%, NI only 17.2%= 26.59%


Fermanagh District Council

Catholic 59.2%
Protestant 37.8%
seats 23
Nationalist = 13 = 56.52%
Unionist =10= 43.4%

Census 2011
Irish only = 33.39 % , I+NI only = 1.12%, NI only = 23.94%= 58.45%
British only 31.92 %, British + NI =3.7% = 35.62%

Coleraine
Catholic 28%
Protestant 65.3
seats 22
Unionist =14 = 63.6%
Nationalist = 5 = 22.72%

census 2011

british only 51.43 + B+NI only = 8.22 + B=I + NI =1.27 = 60.92%
Irish only = 11.47, NI only 21.03, I+NI = .76 = 33.26%

Armagh City

48.4% catholic
48% protestant
seats 22
nationalist = 11 = 50%
unionist =11 = 50%

census 2011

british only 37.68% , British and Ni only 5.17%, B+I+NI =0.65%= 43.5%
Irish only = 29.91%, NI only 20.16%, I+NI=0.93% = 51.1%


Strabane

Catholic 64.9%
Protestant 33.7%
seats 14
Nationalist= 9= 64.28
Unionist = 5= 35.7%

census 2011
Irish only 36.81%, NI only, 26.55%, I+NI only= 1.25= 64.61%
british only 28.41%, B+NI only= 3.37%, B+I+NI =0.47% = 32.25%



Magherfelt District

Catholic 66%
Protestant 31.5%
seats = 16
Nationalist = 11 = 68.75%
Unionist= 5 = 31.25%

Census
Irish only = 39.31%, NI only= 23.94%, I+NI only 1.88= 65.13%
british only = 26.74%, B+NI = 3.27%, B+I+NI=0.5%= 30.51%
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 29, 2013, 09:00:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 25, 2013, 03:13:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 24, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 24, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
I have to agree with you there. If this poll is about starting a debate then fine. But as things stand there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a majority of nationalists let alone an overall majority voting for a united Ireland. Before that happens we need to know what this unified state is going to look like. Listen to Conal McDevitt of the SDLP, he keeps reiterating that the debate needs to take place among nationalist first and formost.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are Conal McDevitt.
And I know who you are! #keep her lit!

I would be disappointed if you were right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:42:01 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2013, 09:00:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 25, 2013, 03:13:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 24, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 24, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
I have to agree with you there. If this poll is about starting a debate then fine. But as things stand there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a majority of nationalists let alone an overall majority voting for a united Ireland. Before that happens we need to know what this unified state is going to look like. Listen to Conal McDevitt of the SDLP, he keeps reiterating that the debate needs to take place among nationalist first and formost.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are Conal McDevitt.
And I know who you are! #keep her lit!

I would be disappointed if you were right.

Fear not, though I am from the same part of the world. Where the sun always shines!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:57:40 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 28, 2013, 04:37:01 PM
Quote from: stibhan on January 28, 2013, 12:28:14 PM
Of course Sinn Féin represent two different things on each side of the border - ever since they decided to stand for elections and take their seats in both jurisdictions, they have had to formulate different strategies for each state because of the peculiar situation in which the north and south found themselves in. The fact that modern provisional Sinn Féin was founded in Belfast, and that the Official IRA from whom they split controlled major state media and broadcast institutions in the 1970's South had a large impact on their public and political image.

That is outwith the fact that they already had a solid nationalist base in the north as opposed to a more grass-roots, underground base in the south. The reality is that if you aren't actively campaigning for election and representation in a state, and instead are repudiating the means of representation, then unless there is a significant social factor to foster solidarity with your voters (Catholics being second class citizens in the north) you will find it difficult to retain interest.

Despite these differences, they still retain a more coherent political strategy in terms of the north than any other party you'd care to name in the south.

As a North of Ireland party I'd expect SF to have some sort of policy towards the North. They are as out of place in the politics of The Republic as the British Conservative Party or French Gaulists.
At first i thought you were a WUM. But your partionist insulting rubbish does not enhance debate. I would be as critical of SF as anyone but to say that they are out of place in southern politics is just pure nonsense, they have evry right as Irish people to stand for election and promote thier policies. You can challenge their politics and policies but you can't deny them thier right to seek support for them at the ballot box. Yes Nally and othe Sinn Fein people can be hypocritical, but show me a politician who isn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 10:02:28 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.

Brits killing Irish is hideous, but still not as bad as people pretending to fight for Ireland killing Irish people.
Nally hasn't a monoply on Hypocrisy. Unionists conveniently forget that they used violence and murder to subvert the wishes of the majority in Ireland and not just in 1920 either they are still doing it. Non of the political paries in the South can claim to have clean hands, the only difference is that SF have left their campaign behind more recently than the other parties, that said it was 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
I didn't say she was illegally detained, what I did say was that if she is then the courts are the place to find a remedy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
I didn't say she was illegally detained, what I did say was that if she is then the courts are the place to find a remedy.

Really?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
I didn't say she was illegally detained, what I did say was that if she is then the courts are the place to find a remedy.

Really?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
I said may, which does not in any way imply that I think it is as I said for the courts to decide.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 29, 2013, 11:50:20 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:42:01 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2013, 09:00:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 25, 2013, 03:13:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 24, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 24, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
I have to agree with you there. If this poll is about starting a debate then fine. But as things stand there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a majority of nationalists let alone an overall majority voting for a united Ireland. Before that happens we need to know what this unified state is going to look like. Listen to Conal McDevitt of the SDLP, he keeps reiterating that the debate needs to take place among nationalist first and formost.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are Conal McDevitt.
And I know who you are! #keep her lit!

I would be disappointed if you were right.

Fear not, though I am from the same part of the world. Where the sun always shines!

I had heard that there was more than one Republican in Carmen alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
I didn't say she was illegally detained, what I did say was that if she is then the courts are the place to find a remedy.

Really?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
I said may, which does not in any way imply that I think it is as I said for the courts to decide.

So you decided it may be an illegal detention because that's what you don't think it is?! Here, stop digging!! (Would still love to know what you see the difference is between the two btw!)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
I didn't say she was illegally detained, what I did say was that if she is then the courts are the place to find a remedy.

Really?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
I said may, which does not in any way imply that I think it is as I said for the courts to decide.

So you decided it may be an illegal detention because that's what you don't think it is?! Here, stop digging!! (Would still love to know what you see the difference is between the two btw!)
I've explained my views on Price, you don't agree thats your right. To be honest I'm not really bothered about her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 12:02:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
I didn't say she was illegally detained, what I did say was that if she is then the courts are the place to find a remedy.

Really?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
I said may, which does not in any way imply that I think it is as I said for the courts to decide.

So you decided it may be an illegal detention because that's what you don't think it is?! Here, stop digging!! (Would still love to know what you see the difference is between the two btw!)
I've explained my views on Price, you don't agree thats your right. To be honest I'm not really bothered about her.
Good man, set down the shovel!! And maybe some day you'll work out what the difference is between internment and illegal detention is!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 12:10:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 12:02:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
I didn't say she was illegally detained, what I did say was that if she is then the courts are the place to find a remedy.

Really?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
I said may, which does not in any way imply that I think it is as I said for the courts to decide.

So you decided it may be an illegal detention because that's what you don't think it is?! Here, stop digging!! (Would still love to know what you see the difference is between the two btw!)
I've explained my views on Price, you don't agree thats your right. To be honest I'm not really bothered about her.
Good man, set down the shovel!! And maybe some day you'll work out what the difference is between internment and illegal detention is!
yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 12:11:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 12:10:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 12:02:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
I didn't say she was illegally detained, what I did say was that if she is then the courts are the place to find a remedy.

Really?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Guys, call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
I said may, which does not in any way imply that I think it is as I said for the courts to decide.

So you decided it may be an illegal detention because that's what you don't think it is?! Here, stop digging!! (Would still love to know what you see the difference is between the two btw!)
I've explained my views on Price, you don't agree thats your right. To be honest I'm not really bothered about her.
Good man, set down the shovel!! And maybe some day you'll work out what the difference is between internment and illegal detention is!
yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Agreed! Tired waiting on an answer!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 30, 2013, 09:35:18 PM
Denis Donaldson: Ombudsman launches new investigation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21260672

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65605000/jpg/_65605177_lp.jpg)

A new investigation has been launched into allegations that police officers may have contributed to the death of republican informer Denis Donaldson.

The Police Ombudsman has overturned a previous decision by his office to close the investigation and declare there was no misconduct by officers.

The senior Sinn Fein official was shot dead in Donegal in April 2006.

He had gone into hiding after police told him the media were preparing to expose his secret life as an informer.

The Real IRA said it was responsible but his family alleged that police officers may have exposed him as an agent and contributed to his death.

Three years ago the Police Ombudsman at the time, Al Hutchinson, said there had been no police misconduct and declared the case closed.

But a BBC Spotlight investigation in October 2011 revealed investigators had not interviewed a special branch officer who Mr Donaldson's family believe may hold vital information about what happened.

For 20 years, senior Sinn Fein member Denis Donaldson led a secret life as an informer for MI5, the RUC and PSNI.

Then in April 2006, he was told by police that the media were about to expose his role as agent and he fled to a remote cottage the family owned in Donegal.

After his murder, Denis Donaldson's family alleged that police officers who knew about his secret role may have exposed him as an agent and contributed to his death.

They were also unaware he had been writing a journal which his family believe could contain clues about who killed him and why.

The current ombudsman, Michael Maguire, confirmed on Wednesday that he has launched a new investigation.

It is understood investigators will seek access to the journal, which was removed by Garda officers investigating the killing, and to interview the special branch officer.

Mr Donaldson was shot at a remote cottage in Glenties in 2006.

He moved out of his Belfast home a few months before his death, and had been living in the run-down cottage which had neither electricity nor running water.

Four months earlier, he had been expelled from Sinn Fein after admitting being a paid British spy for 20 years
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
the murder of a garda officer has yet again shown why its time for gerry to step down as party leader. even this tragic loss of life has been turned into a stick to beat sinn fein with. no matter how firm gerrys footing when attacks this pathetic government and their corruption it turns into farce as 'fianna gael' hark back to gerrys role in the conflict. no matter what the kenny klan do gerry is simply unable to highlight their uselessness. adams needs to stand down now. hes done a great job so far but sinn fein need a new face. with lads like peadar tobin and pierse doherty leading, sinn fein will attract more votes and kenny wont be able to hide from them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 30, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
the murder of a garda officer has yet again shown why its time for gerry to step down as party leader. even this tragic loss of life has been turned into a stick to beat sinn fein with. no matter how firm gerrys footing when attacks this pathetic government and their corruption it turns into farce as 'fianna gael' hark back to gerrys role in the conflict. no matter what the kenny klan do gerry is simply unable to highlight their uselessness. adams needs to stand down now. hes done a great job so far but sinn fein need a new face. with lads like peadar tobin and pierse doherty leading, sinn fein will attract more votes and kenny wont be able to hide from them.

Martin Ferris?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:37:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 30, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
the murder of a Garda officer has yet again shown why its time for Gerry to step down as party leader. even this tragic loss of life has been turned into a stick to beat sinn fein with. no matter how firm gerrys footing when attacks this pathetic government and their corruption it turns into farce as 'fianna gael' hark back to gerrys role in the conflict. no matter what the kenny klan do gerry is simply unable to highlight their uselessness. adams needs to stand down now. hes done a great job so far but sinn fein need a new face. with lads like peadar tobin and pierse doherty leading, sinn fein will attract more votes and kenny wont be able to hide from them.

Martin Ferris?
he can go fishing with ger. his daughter was doing quite well havent heard alot about her lately but being a family member isn't a prerequisite for taking over in sinn fein
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 30, 2013, 11:58:07 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:37:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 30, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
the murder of a Garda officer has yet again shown why its time for Gerry to step down as party leader. even this tragic loss of life has been turned into a stick to beat sinn fein with. no matter how firm gerrys footing when attacks this pathetic government and their corruption it turns into farce as 'fianna gael' hark back to gerrys role in the conflict. no matter what the kenny klan do gerry is simply unable to highlight their uselessness. adams needs to stand down now. hes done a great job so far but sinn fein need a new face. with lads like peadar tobin and pierse doherty leading, sinn fein will attract more votes and kenny wont be able to hide from them.

Martin Ferris?
he can go fishing with ger. his daughter was doing quite well havent heard alot about her lately but being a family member isn't a prerequisite for taking over in sinn fein

Is paramilitary service a prerequisite? Jobs for the Bhoys  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 08:07:12 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:37:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 30, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
the murder of a Garda officer has yet again shown why its time for Gerry to step down as party leader. even this tragic loss of life has been turned into a stick to beat sinn fein with. no matter how firm gerrys footing when attacks this pathetic government and their corruption it turns into farce as 'fianna gael' hark back to gerrys role in the conflict. no matter what the kenny klan do gerry is simply unable to highlight their uselessness. adams needs to stand down now. hes done a great job so far but sinn fein need a new face. with lads like peadar tobin and pierse doherty leading, sinn fein will attract more votes and kenny wont be able to hide from them.

Martin Ferris?
he can go fishing with ger. his daughter was doing quite well havent heard alot about her lately but being a family member isn't a prerequisite for taking over in sinn fein
Is that the same daughter who refused to condemn the murder of Garda McCabe on the Late Late Show?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 31, 2013, 02:20:41 PM
Martin McGuiness and Gerry Kelly are accepted despite their past because they just front up and say yes I did that, it was a different time and things have changed, Adams continues to peddle the myth that he was never in the IRA hence he undermines his own credibility. As Peter Robinson has said of McGuinness just because he had a past doesn't mean he can't have a future.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 31, 2013, 02:32:36 PM
And the same could be said of Robinson .... until the last two months and his reverting to type over the Belfast Council decision on the British Flag .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 31, 2013, 05:33:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 31, 2013, 02:20:41 PM
Martin McGuiness and Gerry Kelly are accepted despite their past because they just front up and say yes I did that, it was a different time and things have changed, Adams continues to peddle the myth that he was never in the IRA hence he undermines his own credibility. As Peter Robinson has said of McGuinness just because he had a past doesn't mean he can't have a future.

The importance of this can't be underestimated.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:03:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 08:07:12 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:37:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 30, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
the murder of a Garda officer has yet again shown why its time for Gerry to step down as party leader. even this tragic loss of life has been turned into a stick to beat sinn fein with. no matter how firm gerrys footing when attacks this pathetic government and their corruption it turns into farce as 'fianna gael' hark back to gerrys role in the conflict. no matter what the kenny klan do gerry is simply unable to highlight their uselessness. adams needs to stand down now. hes done a great job so far but sinn fein need a new face. with lads like peadar tobin and pierse doherty leading, sinn fein will attract more votes and kenny wont be able to hide from them.

Martin Ferris?
he can go fishing with ger. his daughter was doing quite well havent heard alot about her lately but being a family member isn't a prerequisite for taking over in sinn fein
Is that the same daughter who refused to condemn the murder of Garda McCabe on the Late Late Show?
what difference would it have made, shes not a leading shinner her condemnation wouldnt mean much either way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:03:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 08:07:12 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:37:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 30, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
the murder of a Garda officer has yet again shown why its time for Gerry to step down as party leader. even this tragic loss of life has been turned into a stick to beat sinn fein with. no matter how firm gerrys footing when attacks this pathetic government and their corruption it turns into farce as 'fianna gael' hark back to gerrys role in the conflict. no matter what the kenny klan do gerry is simply unable to highlight their uselessness. adams needs to stand down now. hes done a great job so far but sinn fein need a new face. with lads like peadar tobin and pierse doherty leading, sinn fein will attract more votes and kenny wont be able to hide from them.

Martin Ferris?
he can go fishing with ger. his daughter was doing quite well havent heard alot about her lately but being a family member isn't a prerequisite for taking over in sinn fein
Is that the same daughter who refused to condemn the murder of Garda McCabe on the Late Late Show?
what difference would it have made, shes not a leading shinner her condemnation wouldnt mean much either way.
Her condemnation might not have been significant, but her refusal to do so spoke volumes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:03:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 08:07:12 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:37:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 30, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
the murder of a Garda officer has yet again shown why its time for Gerry to step down as party leader. even this tragic loss of life has been turned into a stick to beat sinn fein with. no matter how firm gerrys footing when attacks this pathetic government and their corruption it turns into farce as 'fianna gael' hark back to gerrys role in the conflict. no matter what the kenny klan do gerry is simply unable to highlight their uselessness. adams needs to stand down now. hes done a great job so far but sinn fein need a new face. with lads like peadar tobin and pierse doherty leading, sinn fein will attract more votes and kenny wont be able to hide from them.

Martin Ferris?
he can go fishing with ger. his daughter was doing quite well havent heard alot about her lately but being a family member isn't a prerequisite for taking over in sinn fein
Is that the same daughter who refused to condemn the murder of Garda McCabe on the Late Late Show?
what difference would it have made, shes not a leading shinner her condemnation wouldnt mean much either way.
Her condemnation might not have been significant, but her refusal to do so spoke volumes.
i conmdem it for her since shes not here.  i'm thinking peadar tobin as leader in the dail with peirse as deputy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 01, 2013, 10:36:31 AM
Isn't Peadar the chap who ye'll have to expel for not supporting ye're "trendy leftie smoked salmon socialist " position on Abortion?  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 01, 2013, 10:05:16 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:03:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 08:07:12 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:37:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 30, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
the murder of a Garda officer has yet again shown why its time for Gerry to step down as party leader. even this tragic loss of life has been turned into a stick to beat sinn fein with. no matter how firm gerrys footing when attacks this pathetic government and their corruption it turns into farce as 'fianna gael' hark back to gerrys role in the conflict. no matter what the kenny klan do gerry is simply unable to highlight their uselessness. adams needs to stand down now. hes done a great job so far but sinn fein need a new face. with lads like peadar tobin and pierse doherty leading, sinn fein will attract more votes and kenny wont be able to hide from them.

Martin Ferris?
he can go fishing with ger. his daughter was doing quite well havent heard alot about her lately but being a family member isn't a prerequisite for taking over in sinn fein
Is that the same daughter who refused to condemn the murder of Garda McCabe on the Late Late Show?
what difference would it have made, shes not a leading shinner her condemnation wouldnt mean much either way.
Her condemnation might not have been significant, but her refusal to do so spoke volumes.
i conmdem it for her since shes not here.  i'm thinking peadar tobin as leader in the dail with peirse as deputy

A Tobin is always handy if you want to spin some unbelievable stories.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 01, 2013, 10:35:15 PM
I wonder will Enda Kenny be in Castlebar on the weekend of the Sinn féin ard-fheis. He won't have any family in the Gaeltacht that weekend! :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: anglocelt39 on February 01, 2013, 10:38:36 PM
First things first I'd run a mile to distance myself from both extremes on this thread. The Shinner bashers often come across as an uninformed version of the worst excesses of the Sunday Independent Duckworth school of, ahem, journalism. Having got that off my chest in an," I'm not racist but" type of preface, I do have to ask the question as to whether I was the only one to feel faintly nauseous at the sight on last nights news of Mary Lou condemning the closure of rural garda stations across the country, lovely timing girl.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 02, 2013, 09:28:08 PM
SINN Fein's Mary Lou McDonald has been dragged into defending the IRA's killing of police officers north of the Border.

The party's deputy leader said there was a "clear distinction" between the IRA killing gardai and killing RUC officers during the Troubles.

Ms McDonald's hardline stance is significant because it could damage her reputation as the fresh face of Sinn Fein, with no historical baggage of association with the IRA.

The Dublin Central TD is also resorting to the role of an IRA apologist.

Gerry Adams's belated apology to the families of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe and other members of An Garda Siochana and Army killed by the IRA has prompted calls to extend his apology to RUC victims.

But Sinn Fein has said that killing RUC officers was "vastly different" to killing gardai. According to Ms McDonald, there is a "clear distinction".

Sinn Fein general secretary Mitchell McLaughlin rejected the calls in Northern Ireland for an apology to the families of RUC members and his position has now been backed up by Ms McDonald.

"In terms of a distinction between An Garda Siochana and the RUC – as it was – he is correct. He (Mr McLaughlin) is absolutely correct in saying that," she said.

Hardline

However, Fianna Fail has said that Sinn Fein's "hard neck is breathtaking". The party's justice spokesman Niall Collins said it was not acceptable for a political party to be taking such a stance.

He said it was despicable to see Mr Adams engage in "a brazen act of hypocrisy" in trying to "cleanse his political pedigree" by apologising for the killing of Det Garda McCabe.

"He was hijacking the expressions of sympathy for Adrian Donohoe," said Mr Collins.

Ms McDonald said she believed that every life lost in what she described as "the conflict" was a tragedy both for those who died and for their families.

She said: "I think what Mitchell (McLaughlin) is identifying is the clear distinction between the RUC, the British Army, the loyalist paramilitaries, the IRA – all of whom were combatants in a conflict up in the North over decades and decades – and then An Garda Siochana, who clearly were not. I think that's a crucial distinction.

"It's a point, I know that Gerry (Adams) and others have made in the past and I think it holds true."

Ms McDonald explained that she wasn't saying there would never be such an apology, but that this would have to be part of a wider "process of healing" with apologies on all sides.

She added: "Bear in mind nationalists were also killed – the RUC, the British State forces, the loyalist paramilitaries also inflicted harm.

"We need to find a way that we get to the point where a full apology on all sides is made and a genuine apology.

"But for that to actually happen, we need to have vast, wide-ranging conversations and a process to mediate all this."


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/video-murdering-gardai-is-different-from-killing-ruc-officers-says-mary-lou-3371975.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 10:06:45 PM
In fairness to  Mary Lou, I don't ever recall Gardaí smashing down the front door through, spitting on my mother, smashing her wedding gifts and heirlooms, pulling da down the stairs by the hair in his underwear, assaulting and interning family members nor shooting dead my school-friends. I suppose we must thank the Sino/Indo for pointing out that we have more in common than we know and our southern brothers faced a similar brutal police state on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Olly on February 02, 2013, 10:13:58 PM
Did anyone watch the programme on Bernadette McAliskey tonight? She says she doesn't like Stormont. There's a midget doing press-ups on RTE now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 02, 2013, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 10:06:45 PM
In fairness to  Mary Lou, I don't ever recall Gardaí smashing down the front door through, spitting on my mother, smashing her wedding gifts and heirlooms, pulling da down the stairs by the hair in his underwear, assaulting and interning family members nor shooting dead my school-friends. I suppose we must thank the Sino/Indo for pointing out that we have more in common than we know and our southern brothers faced a similar brutal police state on a daily basis.

Is that an excuse for shooting us?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: Olly on February 02, 2013, 10:13:58 PM
Did anyone watch the programme on Bernadette McAliskey tonight? She says she doesn't like Stormont. There's a midget doing press-ups on RTE now.

Flipping meant to record that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 11:00:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2013, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 10:06:45 PM
In fairness to  Mary Lou, I don't ever recall Gardaí smashing down the front door through, spitting on my mother, smashing her wedding gifts and heirlooms, pulling da down the stairs by the hair in his underwear, assaulting and interning family members nor shooting dead my school-friends. I suppose we must thank the Sino/Indo for pointing out that we have more in common than we know and our southern brothers faced a similar brutal police state on a daily basis.

Is that an excuse for shooting us?

Excuse? Sure you were all obviously going through the same shit (hence the Sindo equivalence between the Garda and RUC/UDR/B Specials) - fcuk you'd be grateful we shot as many as we did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 02, 2013, 11:03:55 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 11:00:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2013, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 10:06:45 PM
In fairness to  Mary Lou, I don't ever recall Gardaí smashing down the front door through, spitting on my mother, smashing her wedding gifts and heirlooms, pulling da down the stairs by the hair in his underwear, assaulting and interning family members nor shooting dead my school-friends. I suppose we must thank the Sino/Indo for pointing out that we have more in common than we know and our southern brothers faced a similar brutal police state on a daily basis.

Is that an excuse for shooting us?

Excuse? Sure you were all obviously going through the same shit (hence the Sindo equivalence between the Garda and RUC/UDR/B Specials) - fcuk you'd be grateful we shot as many as we did.

'We' were gutless balaclavad drug dealers shooting family Gaa men. What a hero you are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 11:28:19 PM
Satire is obviously lost on you (ya) muppet. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 02, 2013, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 11:28:19 PM
Satire is obviously lost on you (ya) muppet.

D'ya reckon?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 08:54:50 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2013, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 11:28:19 PM
Satire is obviously lost on you (ya) muppet.

D'ya reckon?

hes right muppet that one went right over your head
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 03, 2013, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 08:54:50 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2013, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 11:28:19 PM
Satire is obviously lost on you (ya) muppet.

D'ya reckon?

hes right muppet that one went right over your head

Must have been a bad shot if it went over his head
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 03, 2013, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 08:54:50 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2013, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 11:28:19 PM
Satire is obviously lost on you (ya) muppet.

D'ya reckon?

hes right muppet that one went right over your head

Must have been a bad shot if it went over his head

If they fired over people's heads there would be more people alive. John Morley fired a couple of warning shots into the air because he did't want to injure anyone, the scumbags turned around and shot him in the head.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on February 03, 2013, 05:26:25 PM
See that's the difference between policing a community and conducting a "war".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 03, 2013, 05:35:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 03, 2013, 05:26:25 PM
See that's the difference between policing a community and conducting a "war".

Correct
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:12:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Yawn. More whataboutery.

I don't shot my own people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:12:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Yawn. More whataboutery.

I don't shot my own people.

Not whataboutery at all, they're the same organisation as far as I'm concerned. You neatly avoid an answer I see. The organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:12:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Yawn. More whataboutery.

I don't shot my own people.

Not whataboutery at all, they're the same organisation as far as I'm concerned. You neatly avoid an answer I see. The organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

More historical whataboutery.

You are arguing in defence of people who shot decent Irish men doing their jobs, during a robbery.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:12:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Yawn. More whataboutery.

I don't shot my own people.

Not whataboutery at all, they're the same organisation as far as I'm concerned. You neatly avoid an answer I see. The organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

More historical whataboutery.

You are arguing in defence of people who shot decent Irish men doing their jobs, during a robbery.

Well this discussion started from events in Louth and you are now talking about historical events so if it's good enough for you etc...

So in the interest of discussion, for a third time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on February 03, 2013, 07:37:22 PM
Muppet how much could you purchase an ivory tower for in today's financial climate?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:39:04 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 03, 2013, 07:37:22 PM
Muppet how much could you purchase an ivory tower for in today's financial climate?

Let me get this straight, because I am against shooting my own people I live in an ivory tower?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:12:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Yawn. More whataboutery.

I don't shot my own people.

Not whataboutery at all, they're the same organisation as far as I'm concerned. You neatly avoid an answer I see. The organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

More historical whataboutery.

You are arguing in defence of people who shot decent Irish men doing their jobs, during a robbery.

Well this discussion started from events in Louth and you are now talking about historical events so if it's good enough for you etc...

Soin the interest of discussion, for a third time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Discussion?

You don't do discussion. You do predictable rhetoric hiding behind a romantic vision of glorious Republicanism and present it as some unquestionable truth.

These people shot innocent Irish people. In my view they are as bad as the Brits in their thirst for blood.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on February 03, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
No
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:55:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:12:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Yawn. More whataboutery.

I don't shot my own people.

Not whataboutery at all, they're the same organisation as far as I'm concerned. You neatly avoid an answer I see. The organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

More historical whataboutery.

You are arguing in defence of people who shot decent Irish men doing their jobs, during a robbery.

Well this discussion started from events in Louth and you are now talking about historical events so if it's good enough for you etc...

Soin the interest of discussion, for a third time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Discussion?

You don't do discussion. You do predictable rhetoric hiding behind a romantic vision of glorious Republicanism and present it as some unquestionable truth.

These people shot innocent Irish people. In my view they are as bad as the Brits in their thirst for blood.

I'm not indulging in any romanticism. Your inability to condemn the Old IRA for doing things you claim to loath leads me to believe that it's your good self who is romanticising republican history. I'm just asking a simple question (for the fourth time now)....the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on February 03, 2013, 08:15:19 PM
It's like having a dialogue with a budgie.

Persistence should not be confused with pertinence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on February 03, 2013, 08:16:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:55:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:12:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Yawn. More whataboutery.

I don't shot my own people.

Not whataboutery at all, they're the same organisation as far as I'm concerned. You neatly avoid an answer I see. The organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

More historical whataboutery.

You are arguing in defence of people who shot decent Irish men doing their jobs, during a robbery.

Well this discussion started from events in Louth and you are now talking about historical events so if it's good enough for you etc...

Soin the interest of discussion, for a third time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Discussion?

You don't do discussion. You do predictable rhetoric hiding behind a romantic vision of glorious Republicanism and present it as some unquestionable truth.

These people shot innocent Irish people. In my view they are as bad as the Brits in their thirst for blood.

I'm not indulging in any romanticism. Your inability to condemn the Old IRA for doing things you claim to loath leads me to believe that it's your good self who is romanticising republican history. I'm just asking a simple question (for the fourth time now)....the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

What cause does robbing banks and credit unions advance?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:26:14 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 03, 2013, 08:16:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:55:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:12:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Yawn. More whataboutery.

I don't shot my own people.

Not whataboutery at all, they're the same organisation as far as I'm concerned. You neatly avoid an answer I see. The organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

More historical whataboutery.

You are arguing in defence of people who shot decent Irish men doing their jobs, during a robbery.

Well this discussion started from events in Louth and you are now talking about historical events so if it's good enough for you etc...

Soin the interest of discussion, for a third time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Discussion?

You don't do discussion. You do predictable rhetoric hiding behind a romantic vision of glorious Republicanism and present it as some unquestionable truth.

These people shot innocent Irish people. In my view they are as bad as the Brits in their thirst for blood.

I'm not indulging in any romanticism. Your inability to condemn the Old IRA for doing things you claim to loath leads me to believe that it's your good self who is romanticising republican history. I'm just asking a simple question (for the fourth time now)....the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

What cause does robbing banks and credit unions advance?

As well as shooting many of it's own people, the organistion which won your freedom also robbed many banks and post offices.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 03, 2013, 08:26:37 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 08:54:50 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2013, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 02, 2013, 11:28:19 PM
Satire is obviously lost on you (ya) muppet.

D'ya reckon?

hes right muppet that one went right over your head

In fairness, he was doing press-ups on RTE at the time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 03, 2013, 08:28:04 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 03, 2013, 08:15:19 PM
It's like having a dialogue with a budgie.

Persistence should not be confused with pertinence.

;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

It is amazing how uncomfortable that statement makes you. You can't live with it at all. You aren't remotely interested in Irish freedom as you can't even let me make that statement without ramming some twisted ideology down my throat.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2013, 09:32:51 PM
Your not going to get an answer Nally.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

It is amazing how uncomfortable that statement makes you. You can't live with it at all. You aren't remotely interested in Irish freedom as you can't even let me make that statement without ramming some twisted ideology down my throat.

I haven't mentioned any opinions or ideologies of mine here, you'll find i've just repeatedly asked you a fairly simple question. I'll try an eighth time... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:41:11 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

It is amazing how uncomfortable that statement makes you. You can't live with it at all. You aren't remotely interested in Irish freedom as you can't even let me make that statement without ramming some twisted ideology down my throat.

I haven't mentioned any opinions or ideologies of mine here, you'll find i've just repeatedly asked you a fairly simple question. I'll try an eighth time... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

Whataboutery.

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:42:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2013, 09:32:51 PM
Your not going to get an answer Nally.

Shocking that haha
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:45:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:41:11 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

It is amazing how uncomfortable that statement makes you. You can't live with it at all. You aren't remotely interested in Irish freedom as you can't even let me make that statement without ramming some twisted ideology down my throat.

I haven't mentioned any opinions or ideologies of mine here, you'll find i've just repeatedly asked you a fairly simple question. I'll try an eighth time... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

Whataboutery.

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Again, it was yourself who brought up the topic of historic killings, so it can't be whataboutery on my part. For the ninth time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

It is amazing how uncomfortable that statement makes you. You can't live with it at all. You aren't remotely interested in Irish freedom as you can't even let me make that statement without ramming some twisted ideology down my throat.

I haven't mentioned any opinions or ideologies of mine here, you'll find i've just repeatedly asked you a fairly simple question. I'll try an eighth time... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
nally he cant answer. i'd like to think that when we take over that we'll show a little more tolerance toward the traitors who destroyed our country than the last "republicans" did when they got their hands on the reins.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:50:45 PM
The subject was the shooting of Gárdaí which is topical because of the despicable shooting in Louth. It would be quite normal to compare the killing of a Gárda during a robbery with eh the killing of other Gárdaí during other robberies, unless of course you are defending this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 03, 2013, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

It is amazing how uncomfortable that statement makes you. You can't live with it at all. You aren't remotely interested in Irish freedom as you can't even let me make that statement without ramming some twisted ideology down my throat.

I haven't mentioned any opinions or ideologies of mine here, you'll find i've just repeatedly asked you a fairly simple question. I'll try an eighth time... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
nally he cant answer. i'd like to think that when we take over that we'll show a little more tolerance toward the traitors who destroyed our country than the last "republicans" did when they got their hands on the reins.

You won't be taking anything over in our 26 counties. Take your dreams of tinpot dictatorship up to Stormont.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:57:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:50:45 PM
The subject was the shooting of Gárdaí which is topical because of the despicable shooting in Louth. It would be quite normal to compare the killing of a Gárda during a robbery with eh the killing of other Gárdaí during other robberies, unless of course you are defending this.

Well if you're happy to go back 20/30 years to make moral judgements about people who shot their own people then no reason you can't go back 90. Otherwise you make yourself look like a hypocrite who conveniently romanticises armed campaings which won your own freedom. So for a tenth time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:58:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 09:46:39 PM
nally he cant answer. i'd like to think that when we take over that we'll show a little more tolerance toward the traitors who destroyed our country than the last "republicans" did when they got their hands on the reins.

Republicans think that the ONLY reason the Brits left was because of guns. It wasn't, far from it. If any country can cope with its citizens coming home in body bags it is Britain, even to this day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:00:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:57:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:50:45 PM
The subject was the shooting of Gárdaí which is topical because of the despicable shooting in Louth. It would be quite normal to compare the killing of a Gárda during a robbery with eh the killing of other Gárdaí during other robberies, unless of course you are defending this.

Well if you're happy to go back 20/30 years to make moral judgements about people who shot their own people then no reason you can't go back 90. Otherwise you make yourself look like a hypocrite who conveniently romanticises armed campaings which won your own freedom. So for a tenth time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I have answered your question every time. You are too blind to see it.

I am against the killing of my fellow Irishmen.

No ifs, buts or whataboutery. The answer is right there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:01:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:00:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:57:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:50:45 PM
The subject was the shooting of Gárdaí which is topical because of the despicable shooting in Louth. It would be quite normal to compare the killing of a Gárda during a robbery with eh the killing of other Gárdaí during other robberies, unless of course you are defending this.

Well if you're happy to go back 20/30 years to make moral judgements about people who shot their own people then no reason you can't go back 90. Otherwise you make yourself look like a hypocrite who conveniently romanticises armed campaings which won your own freedom. So for a tenth time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I have answered your question every time. You are too blind to see it.

I am against the killing of my fellow Irishmen.

No ifs, buts or whataboutery. The answer is right there.

A yes/no would suffice then... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 03, 2013, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

It is amazing how uncomfortable that statement makes you. You can't live with it at all. You aren't remotely interested in Irish freedom as you can't even let me make that statement without ramming some twisted ideology down my throat.

I haven't mentioned any opinions or ideologies of mine here, you'll find i've just repeatedly asked you a fairly simple question. I'll try an eighth time... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
nally he cant answer. i'd like to think that when we take over that we'll show a little more tolerance toward the traitors who destroyed our country than the last "republicans" did when they got their hands on the reins.

You won't be taking anything over in our 26 counties. Take your dreams of tinpot dictatorship up to Stormont.
true mayo i will not be taking over the 26 counties, the irish people will be taking over their own country from the sliveen/gombeen/traitor/lairs who hyjacked it 80 years ago
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:03:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:01:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:00:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:57:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:50:45 PM
The subject was the shooting of Gárdaí which is topical because of the despicable shooting in Louth. It would be quite normal to compare the killing of a Gárda during a robbery with eh the killing of other Gárdaí during other robberies, unless of course you are defending this.

Well if you're happy to go back 20/30 years to make moral judgements about people who shot their own people then no reason you can't go back 90. Otherwise you make yourself look like a hypocrite who conveniently romanticises armed campaings which won your own freedom. So for a tenth time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I have answered your question every time. You are too blind to see it.

I am against the killing of my fellow Irishmen.

No ifs, buts or whataboutery. The answer is right there.

A yes/no would suffice then... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

Whataboutery.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:06:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:03:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:01:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:00:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:57:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:50:45 PM
The subject was the shooting of Gárdaí which is topical because of the despicable shooting in Louth. It would be quite normal to compare the killing of a Gárda during a robbery with eh the killing of other Gárdaí during other robberies, unless of course you are defending this.

Well if you're happy to go back 20/30 years to make moral judgements about people who shot their own people then no reason you can't go back 90. Otherwise you make yourself look like a hypocrite who conveniently romanticises armed campaings which won your own freedom. So for a tenth time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I have answered your question every time. You are too blind to see it.

I am against the killing of my fellow Irishmen.

No ifs, buts or whataboutery. The answer is right there.

A yes/no would suffice then... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

Whataboutery.

Hahaaa ah come on now. It's hardly whataboutery, you said you have already answered me, so I'm just asking you to give it in a yes or no format.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 03, 2013, 10:09:46 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 03, 2013, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

It is amazing how uncomfortable that statement makes you. You can't live with it at all. You aren't remotely interested in Irish freedom as you can't even let me make that statement without ramming some twisted ideology down my throat.

I haven't mentioned any opinions or ideologies of mine here, you'll find i've just repeatedly asked you a fairly simple question. I'll try an eighth time... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
nally he cant answer. i'd like to think that when we take over that we'll show a little more tolerance toward the traitors who destroyed our country than the last "republicans" did when they got their hands on the reins.

You won't be taking anything over in our 26 counties. Take your dreams of tinpot dictatorship up to Stormont.
true mayo i will not be taking over the 26 counties, the irish people will be taking over their own country from the sliveen/gombeen/traitor/lairs who hyjacked it 80 years ago

The Irish people already run our country.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 03, 2013, 10:11:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 03, 2013, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:01:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
I am not interested in your clutching of 90 year old straws.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people, you seem to disagree with that.
You won't grasp 90 year old straws but you'll happily grab 20/30 year old ones? How unsurprisingly convenient!! Out of curiosity, and for a fifth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people. It isn't very difficult really.

Answering my question shouldn't be too hard either. For a sixth time, the organisation that won your freedom shot many of their own people, do you condemn that organisation in it's entirety?

Many organisations won my freedom.

I am against the shooting of innocent Irish people.

And do you condemn in their entirety those organisations, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

You appear to be some sort of whataboutery champion. That must be nice for you.

Me, I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

Squirming under the weight of your own hypocrisy!! We were talking about last weeks evebts in Louth when you decided to harp back 20/30 years. Whataboutery that's called. You dodging if the question is beyond comical. Making your hypocrasy as plain as day for all to see!

For a seventh time, do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?

I am against the shooting of my fellow Irishmen.

It is amazing how uncomfortable that statement makes you. You can't live with it at all. You aren't remotely interested in Irish freedom as you can't even let me make that statement without ramming some twisted ideology down my throat.

I haven't mentioned any opinions or ideologies of mine here, you'll find i've just repeatedly asked you a fairly simple question. I'll try an eighth time... do you condemn in their entirety those organisations which won your freedom, like the Old IRA, which shot many of their own people?
nally he cant answer. i'd like to think that when we take over that we'll show a little more tolerance toward the traitors who destroyed our country than the last "republicans" did when they got their hands on the reins.

You won't be taking anything over in our 26 counties. Take your dreams of tinpot dictatorship up to Stormont.
true mayo i will not be taking over the 26 counties, the irish people will be taking over their own country from the sliveen/gombeen/traitor/lairs who hyjacked it 80 years ago
Still finding democracy difficult to come to terms with lawnseed?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:06:21 PM
Hahaaa ah come on now. It's hardly whataboutery, you said you have already answered me, so I'm just asking you to give it in a yes or no format.

This is the very definition of whataboutery. I mention other Gárdaí shot by Republicans and you introduce the old IRA the context being: what about them?

I have made an unequivocal unambiguous statement.

You are engaging in whataboutery to try to paint me as a hypocrite for the heinous crime, in your eyes, of being against the killing of my own people. We all know the argument as it has been done to death here. It assumes that the terrorists in the 1920s are untouchable heroes beyond criticism and that if they were beyond criticism then any murderer who hides behind the same name while shooting people must also be above criticism. It is as stupid as that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:23:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:06:21 PM
Hahaaa ah come on now. It's hardly whataboutery, you said you have already answered me, so I'm just asking you to give it in a yes or no format.

This is the very definition of whataboutery. I mention other Gárdaí shot by Republicans and you introduce the old IRA the context being: what about them?

I have made an unequivocal unambiguous statement.

You are engaging in whataboutery to try to paint me as a hypocrite for the heinous crime, in your eyes, of being against the killing of my own people. We all know the argument as it has been done to death here. It assumes that the terrorists in the 1920s are untouchable heroes beyond criticism and that if they were beyond criticism then any murderer who hides behind the same name while shooting people must also be above criticism. It is as stupid as that.

The PIRA had nothing to do with last weeks events but you brought them up. Whataboutery that's called.

You said you already answered my question, so why not sum it up with a yes or no answer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 03, 2013, 10:26:35 PM
This is getting very boring.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:28:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:23:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:06:21 PM
Hahaaa ah come on now. It's hardly whataboutery, you said you have already answered me, so I'm just asking you to give it in a yes or no format.

This is the very definition of whataboutery. I mention other Gárdaí shot by Republicans and you introduce the old IRA the context being: what about them?

I have made an unequivocal unambiguous statement.

You are engaging in whataboutery to try to paint me as a hypocrite for the heinous crime, in your eyes, of being against the killing of my own people. We all know the argument as it has been done to death here. It assumes that the terrorists in the 1920s are untouchable heroes beyond criticism and that if they were beyond criticism then any murderer who hides behind the same name while shooting people must also be above criticism. It is as stupid as that.

The PIRA had nothing to do with last weeks events but you brought them up. Whataboutery that's called.

You said you already answered my question, so why not sum it up with a yes or no answer.

I have answered it. You now want to twist it. Why would I want to let you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:36:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:28:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:23:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:06:21 PM
Hahaaa ah come on now. It's hardly whataboutery, you said you have already answered me, so I'm just asking you to give it in a yes or no format.

This is the very definition of whataboutery. I mention other Gárdaí shot by Republicans and you introduce the old IRA the context being: what about them?

I have made an unequivocal unambiguous statement.

You are engaging in whataboutery to try to paint me as a hypocrite for the heinous crime, in your eyes, of being against the killing of my own people. We all know the argument as it has been done to death here. It assumes that the terrorists in the 1920s are untouchable heroes beyond criticism and that if they were beyond criticism then any murderer who hides behind the same name while shooting people must also be above criticism. It is as stupid as that.

The PIRA had nothing to do with last weeks events but you brought them up. Whataboutery that's called.

You said you already answered my question, so why not sum it up with a yes or no answer.

I have answered it. You now want to twist it. Why would I want to let you?

Twist it? Hardly! I'm asking you so untwist it by answering with a simple word: yes or no.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 03, 2013, 10:52:30 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/3wfcUDT.gif)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:53:50 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:36:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:28:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:23:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 10:06:21 PM
Hahaaa ah come on now. It's hardly whataboutery, you said you have already answered me, so I'm just asking you to give it in a yes or no format.

This is the very definition of whataboutery. I mention other Gárdaí shot by Republicans and you introduce the old IRA the context being: what about them?

I have made an unequivocal unambiguous statement.

You are engaging in whataboutery to try to paint me as a hypocrite for the heinous crime, in your eyes, of being against the killing of my own people. We all know the argument as it has been done to death here. It assumes that the terrorists in the 1920s are untouchable heroes beyond criticism and that if they were beyond criticism then any murderer who hides behind the same name while shooting people must also be above criticism. It is as stupid as that.

The PIRA had nothing to do with last weeks events but you brought them up. Whataboutery that's called.

You said you already answered my question, so why not sum it up with a yes or no answer.

I have answered it. You now want to twist it. Why would I want to let you?

Twist it? Hardly! I'm asking you so untwist it by answering with a simple word: yes or no.

The whole argument, including where you are trying to force it, has already been done to death.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on February 03, 2013, 11:13:14 PM
Lets twist and shout, like we did last summer.......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on February 04, 2013, 08:54:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Why should the IRA be condemned "in it's entirety"?
Surely individual acts can be condemned without damning an entire organisation.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 04, 2013, 09:03:47 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 04, 2013, 08:54:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Why should the IRA be condemned "in it's entirety"?
Surely individual acts can be condemned without damning an entire organisation.

I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 04, 2013, 10:29:37 AM
Muppet, when you universally condemn the PIRA but are ambivalent on the old IRA you leave your self open to the charge of hypocrisy. It is however a little too late and quite embarrassing really to see Sinn Fein now condemn the murders of Gerry McCabe. Whatever about the circumstances that led to RUC/Army/UDR killings in the North those men who shot the Garda in Dundalk are no different to those who murdered Garda McCabe and this should have been condemned at the time, especially since they were like the UVF in East Belfast, operating without HQ approval. Unfortunately Ireland's history is littered with unnecessary violence and innocent deaths and what has it all changed? Nothing the British still occupy and rule 6 of our counties, albeit with the acquiescence of Republicans and Nationalists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on February 04, 2013, 10:43:07 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 04, 2013, 09:03:47 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 04, 2013, 08:54:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
You're such a w**ker muppet

I don't shoot my own people.

Your freedom was won by an organisation which did. I assume you comdemn that organisation in its entirety?

Why should the IRA be condemned "in it's entirety"?
Surely individual acts can be condemned without damning an entire organisation.

I couldn't agree more.

So you will be extending the same courtesy to the RUC and British Army?

"Surely individual acts can be condemned without damning an entire organisation."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 04, 2013, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 04, 2013, 10:29:37 AM
Muppet, when you universally condemn the PIRA but are ambivalent on the old IRA you leave your self open to the charge of hypocrisy. It is however a little too late and quite embarrassing really to see Sinn Fein now condemn the murders of Gerry McCabe. Whatever about the circumstances that led to RUC/Army/UDR killings in the North those men who shot the Garda in Dundalk are no different to those who murdered Garda McCabe and this should have been condemned at the time, especially since they were like the UVF in East Belfast, operating without HQ approval. Unfortunately Ireland's history is littered with unnecessary violence and innocent deaths and what has it all changed? Nothing the British still occupy and rule 6 of our counties, albeit with the acquiescence of Republicans and Nationalists.

I didn't universally condemn the PIRA.

I condemn anyone that shoots or shot innocent Irishmen. The PIRA were involved in this, among others.

'Unfortunately Ireland's history is littered with unnecessary violence and innocent deaths' - I couldn't agree more. This is made worse by the revisionism that demands the belief that Ireland only achieved anything using the bullet. That was not the case at all. Even ignoring O'Connell and Davitt, independence for the 26 was achieved on the back of civil disobedience as much as it was on the back of the casualties on the British side.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 10, 2013, 06:45:10 PM
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-American-millionaire-Bill-Flynn-paid-for-Gerry-Adams-surgery-in-USA-190581841.html (http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-American-millionaire-Bill-Flynn-paid-for-Gerry-Adams-surgery-in-USA-190581841.html)

If only Bertie had got a medical procedure with his €30,000.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 13, 2013, 05:38:01 PM
On top of the $30k for the op from Mr Flynn... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/millionaire-who-paid-for-adamss-op-also-helped-sf-leader-get-us-visa-29060283.html
it appears that 'Friends of SF' stumped up for Gerry to travel business class... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/adams-flew-business-class-for-surgery-in-us-29066714.html

Life on the average industrial wage isn't quite so austere when you've friends in high places.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 13, 2013, 05:40:18 PM
Lawnseed and Nally's Brave New World isn't looking all that different from FF or Fg now is it?  ::) :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 13, 2013, 06:20:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 13, 2013, 05:40:18 PM
Lawnseed and Nally's Brave New World isn't looking all that different from FF or Fg now is it?  ::) :-[
have you any evidence that anything was given by adams in return for this help. planning? a contract? a pension?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 13, 2013, 07:01:26 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 13, 2013, 06:20:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 13, 2013, 05:40:18 PM
Lawnseed and Nally's Brave New World isn't looking all that different from FF or Fg now is it?  ::) :-[
have you any evidence that anything was given by adams in return for this help. planning? a contract? a pension?

Why so cynical Lawnseed? We all know the world is full of wonderful people who hand over money for absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 13, 2013, 07:08:36 PM
I wonder do SF think there should be a Supertax on rich people in the US?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on February 14, 2013, 11:30:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 13, 2013, 05:38:01 PM
On top of the $30k for the op from Mr Flynn... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/millionaire-who-paid-for-adamss-op-also-helped-sf-leader-get-us-visa-29060283.html
it appears that 'Friends of SF' stumped up for Gerry to travel business class... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/adams-flew-business-class-for-surgery-in-us-29066714.html

Life on the average industrial wage isn't quite so austere when you've friends in high places.

(http://static.independent.ie/incoming/article29067977.ece/ALTERNATES/w300square/cartoon2.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 14, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
In the company I work for and in the last one, all over-60s go business class on  long haul flights. Is this not pretty standard?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 14, 2013, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
In the company I work for and in the last one, all over-60s go business class on  long haul flights. Is this not pretty standard?

Brilliant.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on February 15, 2013, 07:48:37 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
In the company I work for and in the last one, all over-60s go business class on  long haul flights. Is this not pretty standard?
Are you saying Gerry works for Mr Flynn?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 08:56:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 14, 2013, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
In the company I work for and in the last one, all over-60s go business class on  long haul flights. Is this not pretty standard?

Brilliant.  ;D ;D ;D

Is that a yes or no?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on February 15, 2013, 01:51:44 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 08:56:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 14, 2013, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
In the company I work for and in the last one, all over-60s go business class on  long haul flights. Is this not pretty standard?

Brilliant.  ;D ;D ;D

Is that a yes or no?
I can think of a few hundred farm businesses who don't jet around the world on first class flights. Then again not many of them can afford to pamper to the needs of Irish politicians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 02:27:50 PM
Firstly, business class is not the same as first class on long haul, the latter being considerably more expensive.

Secondly, I don't know many farmers who would have business that would take them overseas on a regular basis and less so those who have an organisation overseas specifically for the purpose of funding their overseas trips. If they did it would be a bit silly not to allow the overseas organisation to pay.

My original question was genuine by the way. I know that in the north many companies had to change their travel  policies years ago after the DVT scares. In fact not a few years ago I was part of a company delegation on a long flight. The Directors, senior managers and I sat in cattle class, my line manager got to go business class (she was 60 or close to it) while the CEO and his assistant went first class.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on February 15, 2013, 02:54:58 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 02:27:50 PM
My original question was genuine by the way. I know that in the north many companies had to change their travel  policies years ago after the DVT scares. In fact not a few years ago I was part of a company delegation on a long flight. The Directors, senior managers and I sat in cattle class, my line manager got to go business class (she was 60 or close to it) while the CEO and his assistant went first class.

I've never heard of an age-based seating hierarchy before. They're not public sector organisations, by any chance?

In fact, most of the companies I've worked for (mostly American multinationals, but a couple of Irish companies) have had ecenomy-only rules for everybody, from top to bottom, on the basis that they understood what the airlines understood - that the only people who travel business/first class are people for whom someone else is paying the fare.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 15, 2013, 02:54:58 PM
I've never heard of an age-based seating hierarchy before. They're not public sector organisations, by any chance?

Semi-state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 15, 2013, 05:29:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
In the company I work for and in the last one, all over-60s go business class on  long haul flights. Is this not pretty standard?
Can you not see the contradiction between making a big deal out of the AIW and then taking business class flights? And it's not just the flights...
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/from-working-class-to-first-class-sinn-fein-gets-a-taste-for-luxury-26803230.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 15, 2013, 05:49:38 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 02:27:50 PM
Firstly, business class is not the same as first class on long haul, the latter being considerably more expensive.

Secondly, I don't know many farmers who would have business that would take them overseas on a regular basis and less so those who have an organisation overseas specifically for the purpose of funding their overseas trips. If they did it would be a bit silly not to allow the overseas organisation to pay.

My original question was genuine by the way. I know that in the north many companies had to change their travel  policies years ago after the DVT scares. In fact not a few years ago I was part of a company delegation on a long flight. The Directors, senior managers and I sat in cattle class, my line manager got to go business class (she was 60 or close to it) while the CEO and his assistant went first class.

You're killing me, please stop.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
I just done a quick check with Aer Lingus for flights from Dublin to NY.

Both flying out of Dub 16.6.13 returning 20.6.13

Economy €715
Business €2,995

There was no first class option available.


Tell me, where do you get application forms to join Sinn Fein?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 15, 2013, 06:18:58 PM
QuoteFirstly, business class is not the same as first class on long haul, the latter being considerably more expensive.

QuoteEconomy €715
Business €2,995

There was no first class option available.

A lot of airlines do not offer First Class on long haul. It isn't a great seller, as the plutocrats have private aircraft and business class is comfortable enough for most.

QuoteMy original question was genuine by the way. I know that in the north many companies had to change their travel  policies years ago after the DVT scares

This concept doesn't seem to have penetrated south of the border. Hopefully, in a few years it will  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 06:21:27 PM
http://www.sinnfein.ie/what-sinn-fein-stands-for (http://www.sinnfein.ie/what-sinn-fein-stands-for)

90 years after partition, as communities divided by the border become increasingly reintegrated, there is a growing pull towards reunification.  As old allegiances change and people from loyalist backgrounds consider voting for a republican party because it best represents their social and economic interests, the potential for dialogue with those from the unionist community about their place in a united Ireland becomes possible.

Who the hell are these clowns trying to kid?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on February 15, 2013, 07:25:15 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 06:21:27 PM
http://www.sinnfein.ie/what-sinn-fein-stands-for (http://www.sinnfein.ie/what-sinn-fein-stands-for)

90 years after partition, as communities divided by the border become increasingly reintegrated, there is a growing pull towards reunification.  As old allegiances change and people from loyalist backgrounds consider voting for a republican party because it best represents their social and economic interests, the potential for dialogue with those from the unionist community about their place in a united Ireland becomes possible.

Who the hell are these clowns trying to kid?

Ball de beaver may talk sense for once.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 15, 2013, 07:49:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2013, 06:18:58 PM
QuoteFirstly, business class is not the same as first class on long haul, the latter being considerably more expensive.

QuoteEconomy €715
Business €2,995

There was no first class option available.

A lot of airlines do not offer First Class on long haul. It isn't a great seller, as the plutocrats have private aircraft and business class is comfortable enough for most.

QuoteMy original question was genuine by the way. I know that in the north many companies had to change their travel  policies years ago after the DVT scares

This concept doesn't seem to have penetrated south of the border. Hopefully, in a few years it will  ;)
I didn't have you down as being in your 60s!

Our place had a policy of business class one way for Senior Managers and both ways for anyone more senior for trips to our plants in the US. This has been recently knocked on the head and everyone goes cattle.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 15, 2013, 08:25:19 PM
QuoteI didn't have you down as being in your 60s!

I'm not. Which is why I don't see any need for this measure to be introduced immediately.

QuoteOur place had a policy of business class one way for Senior Managers and both ways for anyone more senior for trips to our plants in the US. This has been recently knocked on the head and everyone goes cattle.

Hell is long haul economy... Although the individual entertainment nowadays helps.

When my lotto number comes up, I am going to buy a round the world first class ticket and fly to Tahiti with Singapore airlines.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 15, 2013, 08:46:39 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
I just done a quick check with Aer Lingus for flights from Dublin to NY.

Both flying out of Dub 16.6.13 returning 20.6.13

Economy €715
Business €2,995

There was no first class option available.


Tell me, where do you get application forms to join Sinn Fein?

Just go online and you can join,but you need to be prepared  to work
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 15, 2013, 08:58:30 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
I just done a quick check with Aer Lingus for flights from Dublin to NY.

Both flying out of Dub 16.6.13 returning 20.6.13

Economy €715
Business €2,995

There was no first class option available.


Tell me, where do you get application forms to join Sinn Fein?


Better still pm me your address and I will call and give you a form
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 15, 2013, 05:29:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
In the company I work for and in the last one, all over-60s go business class on  long haul flights. Is this not pretty standard?
Can you not see the contradiction between making a big deal out of the AIW and then taking business class flights? And it's not just the flights...
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/from-working-class-to-first-class-sinn-fein-gets-a-taste-for-luxury-26803230.html

Discarding the Indo link as I do try not to indulge their nonsense, do you not get my point about older people especially those with medical conditions flying long haul with a bit of legroom?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 15, 2013, 05:49:38 PM
You're killing me, please stop.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Oh look Muppet has wimped out and is afraid to debate with the big bad nordies now. Okay, in future I reserve the right to respond in kind to whatever drivel you post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
I just done a quick check with Aer Lingus for flights from Dublin to NY.

Both flying out of Dub 16.6.13 returning 20.6.13

Economy €715
Business €2,995

There was no first class option available.


Tell me, where do you get application forms to join Sinn Fein?

And? Are you trying to say business class is the same as first class because Aer Lingus don't do first class? What are you on?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 09:32:59 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 15, 2013, 08:46:39 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
I just done a quick check with Aer Lingus for flights from Dublin to NY.

Both flying out of Dub 16.6.13 returning 20.6.13

Economy €715
Business €2,995

There was no first class option available.


Tell me, where do you get application forms to join Sinn Fein?

Just go online and you can join,but you need to be prepared  to work
Do I have to kneecap anyone, or do I have to join the  ra to do that kinda fun stuff? Can I join both and get a nice wee cottage in Donegal? I don't fancy having to shoot any gards, but sure if it brings in a few more yoyos for the boys, who cares.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 15, 2013, 09:43:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 15, 2013, 05:29:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
In the company I work for and in the last one, all over-60s go business class on  long haul flights. Is this not pretty standard?
Can you not see the contradiction between making a big deal out of the AIW and then taking business class flights? And it's not just the flights...
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/from-working-class-to-first-class-sinn-fein-gets-a-taste-for-luxury-26803230.html

Discarding the Indo link as I do try not to indulge their nonsense, do you not get my point about older people especially those with medical conditions flying long haul with a bit of legroom?
I think it's a great idea, if you can afford it.
And you're probably best ignoring the Indo link - you wouldn't enjoy it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 15, 2013, 09:45:54 PM
Just dry your eyes stop crying and you can join,the one thing we can't have are crying bastards
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 15, 2013, 09:47:28 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 15, 2013, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
I just done a quick check with Aer Lingus for flights from Dublin to NY.

Both flying out of Dub 16.6.13 returning 20.6.13

Economy €715
Business €2,995

There was no first class option available.


Tell me, where do you get application forms to join Sinn Fein?

And? Are you trying to say business class is the same as first class because Aer Lingus don't do first class? What are you on?
What you call it is really neither here nor there - just have a look at the prices.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 15, 2013, 10:12:39 PM
What exactly is the problem here? The president of one of the main political parties has flown to the US at the front of the plane, so what, would you really expect him to sit in cattle class on a trans Atlantic flight, seriously?
Adams was flying to the US to receive treatment for a particular medical condition, again I don't see the problem, he was getting the best available treatment. If any one of us were in his situation and money wasn't an issue we would do exactly the same thing. I don't usually agree with GA. but I can't see what the issue is here other than the fact that it is Adams, if any of the other political leaders were to do this it wouldn't get a mention.

He had an operation on one of his eyes before Christmas in the RVH, again he got the best available treatment, no one seemed to have an issue with this?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 15, 2013, 10:19:30 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 15, 2013, 10:12:39 PM
What exactly is the problem here? The president of one of the main political parties has flown to the US at the front of the plane, so what, would you really expect him to sit in cattle class on a trans Atlantic flight, seriously?
Adams was flying to the US to receive treatment for a particular medical condition, again I don't see the problem, he was getting the best available treatment. If any one of us were in his situation and money wasn't an issue we would do exactly the same thing. I don't usually agree with GA. but I can't see what the issue is here other than the fact that it is Adams, if any of the other political leaders were to do this it wouldn't get a mention.

He had an operation on one of his eyes before Christmas in the RVH, again he got the best available treatment, no one seemed to have an issue with this?
Do the other parties make a big deal about living on the average industrial wage? If 'cattle class' is good enough for the average industrial man, then why not for Gerry?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 15, 2013, 10:31:41 PM
Average industrial wage or not, he is a successful author and I am sure he isn't exactly on the bread line. I really don't see the issue here at all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 15, 2013, 10:51:39 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 15, 2013, 10:12:39 PM
What exactly is the problem here? The president of one of the main political parties has flown to the US at the front of the plane, so what, would you really expect him to sit in cattle class on a trans Atlantic flight, seriously?
Adams was flying to the US to receive treatment for a particular medical condition, again I don't see the problem, he was getting the best available treatment. If any one of us were in his situation and money wasn't an issue we would do exactly the same thing. I don't usually agree with GA. but I can't see what the issue is here other than the fact that it is Adams, if any of the other political leaders were to do this it wouldn't get a mention.

He had an operation on one of his eyes before Christmas in the RVH, again he got the best available treatment, no one seemed to have an issue with this?

The problem is the rest of us don't run on a manifesto opposing 'two tier' health care and indeed private health care in general. But it is genuinely funny to excuse your departure from your health service ideology, on health grounds!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 15, 2013, 10:31:41 PM
Average industrial wage or not, he is a successful author and I am sure he isn't exactly on the bread line. I really don't see the issue here at all.
Then why not buy his own ticket and pay for the operation himself? I know if I had the money I wouldn't be mooching off anyone else, out of sheer pride.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 15, 2013, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 15, 2013, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 15, 2013, 10:31:41 PM
Average industrial wage or not, he is a successful author and I am sure he isn't exactly on the bread line. I really don't see the issue here at all.
Then why not buy his own ticket and pay for the operation himself? I know if I had the money I wouldn't be mooching off anyone else, out of sheer pride.

Aha!

You are Walt White. That explains everything.

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120607232256/breakingbad/images/thumb/6/65/Season_5_banner.jpg/650px-Season_5_banner.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 15, 2013, 11:06:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 15, 2013, 10:51:39 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 15, 2013, 10:12:39 PM
What exactly is the problem here? The president of one of the main political parties has flown to the US at the front of the plane, so what, would you really expect him to sit in cattle class on a trans Atlantic flight, seriously?
Adams was flying to the US to receive treatment for a particular medical condition, again I don't see the problem, he was getting the best available treatment. If any one of us were in his situation and money wasn't an issue we would do exactly the same thing. I don't usually agree with GA. but I can't see what the issue is here other than the fact that it is Adams, if any of the other political leaders were to do this it wouldn't get a mention.

He had an operation on one of his eyes before Christmas in the RVH, again he got the best available treatment, no one seemed to have an issue with this?

The problem is the rest of us don't run on a manifesto opposing 'two tier' health care and indeed private health care in general. But it is genuinely funny to excuse your departure from your health service ideology, on health grounds!

Like it or not there is a two tier health care system and until that is fixed it may be necessary to go abroad or even north for the best available treatment.
None of us would have done anything different in the circumstances.

Oddly enough I finished watching the second series of Borgen last night, I don't know if you are familiar with the series but the Danish PM was in a similar situation and did exactly what GA did. She wanted a better health care system for her people, but when it came to her own family she went private.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 15, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 15, 2013, 11:11:32 PM
Let me get this straight.

Gerry Adams is diagnosed with cancer and accepts an offer from some rich boy to get the best treatment he can?

Fcukin shame on him.
He didn't have cancer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 16, 2013, 09:00:45 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 15, 2013, 11:16:35 PM
Gets worse. What did he have?
I don't know - just that Gerry specifically said it wasn't cancer. But that's irrelevant. And I'd imagine most people have no issue with him getting care per se.

The issue is the contradiction between the notion that SF reps are just like the man on the street, earning the AIW, when the reality is, they're as privileged as the rest of the political class. And specifically, that SF criticise the idea that there is a two-tier health system and that "wealth can buy you better care in the private health sector".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on February 16, 2013, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 15, 2013, 10:12:39 PM
What exactly is the problem here? The president of one of the main political parties has flown to the US at the front of the plane, so what, would you really expect him to sit in cattle class on a trans Atlantic flight, seriously?
Adams was flying to the US to receive treatment for a particular medical condition, again I don't see the problem, he was getting the best available treatment. If any one of us were in his situation and money wasn't an issue we would do exactly the same thing. I don't usually agree with GA. but I can't see what the issue is here other than the fact that it is Adams, if any of the other political leaders were to do this it wouldn't get a mention.

He had an operation on one of his eyes before Christmas in the RVH, again he got the best available treatment, no one seemed to have an issue with this?

I heard the taxi driver who took him to hospital didn't charge him a fare.  Hypocritical bastard!!

The anti-Adams brigade (do I hear a barrel being scraped in the background?) reminds of Louise Mensch's argument that you couldn't be anti-capitalist and buy coffee or own an iPhone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WvAkhW-XNI

Wise to f**k up lads and get out a bit more ::)  I'm as big critic of SF as the next man (and not always from the safety of behind a keyboard) but using this as an argument to score political points is both puerile and pathetic.

Meanwhile, I'm planning a trip to Paris in August.  Would anyone check the price of an Aer Lingus flight for me?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 16, 2013, 11:37:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2013, 09:00:45 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 15, 2013, 11:16:35 PM
Gets worse. What did he have?
I don't know - just that Gerry specifically said it wasn't cancer. But that's irrelevant. And I'd imagine most people have no issue with him getting care per se.

The issue is the contradiction between the notion that SF reps are just like the man on the street, earning the AIW, when the reality is, they're as privileged as the rest of the political class. And specifically, that SF criticise the idea that there is a two-tier health system and that "wealth can buy you better care in the private health sector".
Hypocrisy is the one word that sums it all up. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 16, 2013, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 16, 2013, 10:40:04 AM
The anti-Adams brigade (do I hear a barrel being scraped in the background?) reminds of Louise Mensch's argument that you couldn't be anti-capitalist and buy coffee or own an iPhone
It might remind you of it - that doesn't mean it's the same thing.

Quote from: AQMP on February 16, 2013, 10:40:04 AM
Wise to f**k up lads and get out a bit more ::)  I'm as big critic of SF as the next man (and not always from the safety of behind a keyboard) but using this as an argument to score political points is both puerile and pathetic.
But it's essentially a political argument. It comes back to the party's average industrial wage and health policies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2013, 01:38:51 PM
Any able to point out if there are any tax considerations here?

Gift tax, for example, and/or BIK?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 02:17:19 PM
Gift tax applies to anyone tax resident in Ireland at the date of the gift. I don't know Gerry's tax resident status.

There is an exemption for the purpose of discharging qualifying medical expenses of an individual permanently incapacitated by physical or mental infirmity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2013, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 02:17:19 PM
Gift tax applies to anyone tax resident in Ireland at the date of the gift. I don't know Gerry's tax resident status.

There is an exemption for the purpose of discharging qualifying medical expenses of an individual permanently incapacitated by physical or mental infirmity.

Are you joking?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 02:17:19 PM
Gift tax applies to anyone tax resident in Ireland at the date of the gift. I don't know Gerry's tax resident status.

There is an exemption for the purpose of discharging qualifying medical expenses of an individual permanently incapacitated by physical or mental infirmity.

Are you joking?

I presume he would haVe to be a resident of the Republic of Ireland to be a T.D.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 02:17:19 PM
Gift tax applies to anyone tax resident in Ireland at the date of the gift. I don't know Gerry's tax resident status.

There is an exemption for the purpose of discharging qualifying medical expenses of an individual permanently incapacitated by physical or mental infirmity.

Are you joking?

Would you believe I don't know where he lives. You can also live in this country for various periods and not be tax resident. To be tax resident you need to spend 183 days in the country or 280 days over a two year period. I assume he is, I just stated I did not know his tax residence status.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 16, 2013, 03:25:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 01:38:51 PM
Any able to point out if there are any tax considerations here?

Gift tax, for example, and/or BIK?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2013/0213/1224329983081.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 16, 2013, 03:38:43 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 02:17:19 PM
Gift tax applies to anyone tax resident in Ireland at the date of the gift. I don't know Gerry's tax resident status.

There is an exemption for the purpose of discharging qualifying medical expenses of an individual permanently incapacitated by physical or mental infirmity.

Are you joking?

Would you believe I don't know where he lives. You can also live in this country for various periods and not be tax resident. To be tax resident you need to spend 183 days in the country or 280 days over a two year period. I assume he is, I just stated I did not know his tax residence status.

Although Gerry used a county Louth address for his election papers he has never lived at that address. He still lives in Belfast as far as I know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 16, 2013, 03:44:49 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 16, 2013, 03:38:43 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 02:17:19 PM
Gift tax applies to anyone tax resident in Ireland at the date of the gift. I don't know Gerry's tax resident status.

There is an exemption for the purpose of discharging qualifying medical expenses of an individual permanently incapacitated by physical or mental infirmity.

Are you joking?

Would you believe I don't know where he lives. You can also live in this country for various periods and not be tax resident. To be tax resident you need to spend 183 days in the country or 280 days over a two year period. I assume he is, I just stated I did not know his tax residence status.

Although Gerry used a county Louth address for his election papers he has never lived at that address. He still lives in Belfast as far as I know.
On the Irish Times link I posted above: "The Sinn Féin leader, who is TD for Louth, is tax-resident in the State, according to a party spokesman."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 16, 2013, 03:51:13 PM
He does not live at the address on his election papers, in fact an election worker called to the house numerous times to try to confirm his presence at the address but was unable to do so. The house belongs to  a member of Sinn Fein, who looks after the financial side of things.  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 16, 2013, 03:56:39 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 16, 2013, 03:38:43 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on February 16, 2013, 02:17:19 PM
Gift tax applies to anyone tax resident in Ireland at the date of the gift. I don't know Gerry's tax resident status.

There is an exemption for the purpose of discharging qualifying medical expenses of an individual permanently incapacitated by physical or mental infirmity.

Are you joking?
He rents a house in Omeath.


Would you believe I don't know where he lives. You can also live in this country for various periods and not be tax resident. To be tax resident you need to spend 183 days in the country or 280 days over a two year period. I assume he is, I just stated I did not know his tax residence status.

Although Gerry used a county Louth address for his election papers he has never lived at that address. He still lives in Belfast as far as I know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on February 16, 2013, 04:11:43 PM
I have no problem with Adams getting healthcare in the US or some US lad paying for it.

I've a problem with him then turning round and telling me that Irish nurses are underpaid/we've a two tier health service/I'm on an industrial wage/TD's shouldn't accept favours or financial gifts from wealthy businessmen. It's hypocrisy, you can't expouse a socialist mantra and then shit on it when it suits you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on February 16, 2013, 04:17:22 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 16, 2013, 04:11:43 PM
I have no problem with Adams getting healthcare in the US or some US lad paying for it.

I've a problem with him then turning round and telling me that Irish nurses are underpaid/we've a two tier health service/I'm on an industrial wage/TD's shouldn't accept favours or financial gifts from wealthy businessmen. It's hypocrisy, you can't expouse a socialist mantra and then shit on it when it suits you.


Sinn Fein voters don't have any issue with this.

So in that regard SF won't worry or care too much about what others think.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 16, 2013, 06:11:28 PM
Nobody going to make a new thread out of this HUGE story??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2013, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 16, 2013, 06:11:28 PM
Nobody going to make a new thread out of this HUGE story??

Why don't you get a rich friend to do it?   ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2013, 06:33:14 PM
Gerry is on twitter now https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF (https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF).

Here is today's update: Got spuds & fruit in Moore St. Craic maith. Molly Malones under p. Rates. Good coffee in SF Bookshop in Parnell Sq. Tiochfaidh ar latte!!

I'm thinking Lawnseed is related?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 16, 2013, 06:49:55 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 16, 2013, 03:38:43 PM
Although Gerry used a county Louth address for his election papers he has never lived at that address. He still lives in Belfast as far as I know.

A bit like his fellow Ulsterman Seanie J  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 16, 2013, 09:45:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 06:33:14 PM
Gerry is on twitter now https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF (https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF).

Here is today's update: Got spuds & fruit in Moore St. Craic maith. Molly Malones under p. Rates. Good coffee in SF Bookshop in Parnell Sq. Tiochfaidh ar latte!!

I'm thinking Lawnseed is related?
Is this confirmed as a genuine account as I assumed it was a parody account.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2013, 09:48:11 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 16, 2013, 09:45:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 06:33:14 PM
Gerry is on twitter now https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF (https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF).

Here is today's update: Got spuds & fruit in Moore St. Craic maith. Molly Malones under p. Rates. Good coffee in SF Bookshop in Parnell Sq. Tiochfaidh ar latte!!

I'm thinking Lawnseed is related?
Is this confirmed as a genuine account as I assumed it was a parody account.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0209/1224329841271.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0209/1224329841271.html)

Honestly don't know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 16, 2013, 10:00:06 PM
Muppet think you have a big problem,you are either a wannabe Shinner or have the hots for big Gerry
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2013, 10:01:33 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 16, 2013, 10:00:06 PM
Muppet think you have a big problem,you are either a wannabe Shinner or have the hots for big Gerry

He had me at Tiocfhaidh ár latte.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 16, 2013, 10:13:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 16, 2013, 06:11:28 PM
Nobody going to make a new thread out of this HUGE story??

Why don't you get a rich friend to do it?   ;)

I would but I just can't seem to find anyone who gives one flying fcuk about this "story" though, that's why I'm suggesting maybe some of you budding Indo columnists might want to be the one to start a whole new thread about it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on February 17, 2013, 01:09:15 PM
Big Jurry has had to remortgage the Donegal holiday home ! Wouldn't like to turn him down for a remortgage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2013, 01:23:57 PM
QuoteWouldn't like to turn him down for a remortgage.

Why? It is not like he was in the IRA, like some from West Belfast with houses in Donegal.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2013, 02:41:19 PM
Only 5% behind FG in the latest opiniion poll. Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 17, 2013, 04:33:42 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 16, 2013, 10:13:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 16, 2013, 06:11:28 PM
Nobody going to make a new thread out of this HUGE story??

Why don't you get a rich friend to do it?   ;)

I would but I just can't seem to find anyone who gives one flying fcuk about this "story" though, that's why I'm suggesting maybe some of you budding Indo columnists might want to be the one to start a whole new thread about it.

You don't have to waste your time posting then.

Meanwhile:

http://thebrokenelbow.com/2013/02/10/gerry-adams-prostate-remedy-available-in-belfast-at-fraction-of-u-s-cost/ (http://thebrokenelbow.com/2013/02/10/gerry-adams-prostate-remedy-available-in-belfast-at-fraction-of-u-s-cost/)
http://irishfreepress.com/sinn-fein-leader-gerry-adams-could-face-giant-tax-bill-after-us-businessman/ (http://irishfreepress.com/sinn-fein-leader-gerry-adams-could-face-giant-tax-bill-after-us-businessman/)

The funny thing is look at the first comment on the first link: "Ed, your obsession with Adams is starting to make you look incredibly foolish."

Anyone recognise anything?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 19, 2013, 05:49:33 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 16, 2013, 10:00:06 PM
Muppet think you have a big problem,you are either a wannabe Shinner or have the hots for big Gerry

yeah muppet i see you've actually started a thread for gerry. whats with you

then again as i've said before and i'll repeat myself its time gerry concentrated on his constiuency and left the leadership to someone else. i see jao meeballocks let a listner slander adams on liveline its almost as if he wants to end up in court again. jao is very exited these days by the prospect of fianna fail getting back into power they sure knew how to look after their rte stooges
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 19, 2013, 06:20:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 19, 2013, 05:49:33 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 16, 2013, 10:00:06 PM
Muppet think you have a big problem,you are either a wannabe Shinner or have the hots for big Gerry

yeah muppet i see you've actually started a thread for gerry. whats with you

then again as i've said before and i'll repeat myself its time gerry concentrated on his constiuency and left the leadership to someone else. i see jao meeballocks let a listner slander adams on liveline its almost as if he wants to end up in court again. jao is very exited these days by the prospect of fianna fail getting back into power they sure knew how to look after their rte stooges

What's with you? Lawnseed started threads on:

Ian Paisley (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=16682.msg811231#msg811231)
Nelson McCausland (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17384.msg851948#msg851948)
Tom Elliot (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17414.msg853799#msg853799)
Eamon De Valera (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=18173.msg897743#msg897743)
Ming (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=18724.msg927692#msg927692)
Michael Noonan (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=18988.msg943997#msg943997)

I think Gerry telling us about his interest in gay teddies is far more interesting.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 19, 2013, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 16, 2013, 10:00:06 PM
Muppet think you have a big problem,you are either a wannabe Shinner or have the hots for big Gerry
i'm not the only one whos noticed am i
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 19, 2013, 06:36:43 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 19, 2013, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 16, 2013, 10:00:06 PM
Muppet think you have a big problem,you are either a wannabe Shinner or have the hots for big Gerry
i'm not the only one whos noticed am i

Lots of people have noticed the gay teddies. It is international news at this stage.

Here is a photo of Ted: (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2013/02/ted.jpg)

If it was Enda or Micheál you boys would be drooling at the mouth. But it is Gerry. You boys are reduced to nothing more than attacking anyone who mentions it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 19, 2013, 10:51:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 19, 2013, 06:36:43 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 19, 2013, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 16, 2013, 10:00:06 PM
Muppet think you have a big problem,you are either a wannabe Shinner or have the hots for big Gerry
i'm not the only one whos noticed am i

Lots of people have noticed the gay teddies. It is international news at this stage.

Here is a photo of Ted: (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2013/02/ted.jpg)

If it was Enda or Micheál you boys would be drooling at the mouth. But it is Gerry. You boys are reduced to nothing more than attacking anyone who mentions it.
quit drooling yourself and read the thread. i'm agreeing with you he needs to go i've been saying for  about 8mths
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 19, 2013, 11:01:48 PM
Not sure what you are at Muppet, seems clear to me Adams is poking fun at himself. It's unusual to see someone poke fun at someone poking fun at themselves (if you follow). Whether this is really what Adams is like or whether this is put on to soften his image is something worth discussing. I doubt it's the later myself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on February 21, 2013, 04:47:27 PM
I hear Sinn Féin want to have a public holiday for "all those who fought for Irish freedom" including those in the recent past.

Not a fcking hope in hell!! Do you think the people of this country would stand for a public holiday to celebrate the Omagh bombers, the murderers of Jerry McCabe, John Morley, Henry Byrne etc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 22, 2013, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 16, 2013, 10:13:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2013, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 16, 2013, 06:11:28 PM
Nobody going to make a new thread out of this HUGE story??

Why don't you get a rich friend to do it?   ;)

I would but I just can't seem to find anyone who gives one flying fcuk about this "story" though, that's why I'm suggesting maybe some of you budding Indo columnists might want to be the one to start a whole new thread about it.
Plenty seem to give a 'flying fcuk' - not least his 15,000 odd followers.

And you not think that if Enda Kenny, David Cameron, or Peter Robinson tweeted such things they'd be targets for ridicule?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 22, 2013, 05:22:01 PM
From The Irish Times:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDoaUVeCAAMaDqf.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 23, 2013, 04:26:15 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 21, 2013, 04:47:27 PM
I hear Sinn Féin want to have a public holiday for "all those who fought for Irish freedom" including those in the recent past.

Not a fcking hope in hell!! Do you think the people of this country would stand for a public holiday to celebrate the Omagh bombers, the murderers of Jerry McCabe, John Morley, Henry Byrne etc

Cite your worst post-Partition atrocity, and I'll beat it pre-Partition, guaranteed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2013, 05:36:57 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 23, 2013, 04:26:15 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 21, 2013, 04:47:27 PM
I hear Sinn Féin want to have a public holiday for "all those who fought for Irish freedom" including those in the recent past.

Not a fcking hope in hell!! Do you think the people of this country would stand for a public holiday to celebrate the Omagh bombers, the murderers of Jerry McCabe, John Morley, Henry Byrne etc

Cite your worst post-Partition atrocity, and I'll beat it pre-Partition, guaranteed.

An even better reason not to do it then.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on February 23, 2013, 12:51:11 PM
That's right, imagine the outcry if they try to name the main train stations after convicted IRA gunmen, so called freedom fighters,
or should the main stadium the north be named after a convicted traitor.

They're not a patch on the true freedom fighters, The Fenian Brotherhood. These Nordies have a cheek. Next they'll be claiming Tom Clarke as some type of Nordie.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2013, 02:56:22 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 23, 2013, 12:51:11 PM
That's right, imagine the outcry if they try to name the main train stations after convicted IRA gunmen, so called freedom fighters,
or should the main stadium the north be named after a convicted traitor.

They're not a patch on the true freedom fighters, The Fenian Brotherhood. These Nordies have a cheek. Next they'll be claiming Tom Clarke as some type of Nordie.

Why the need to imitate the Brits and glorify war and killing?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on February 23, 2013, 03:00:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 23, 2013, 12:51:11 PM
That's right, imagine the outcry if they try to name the main train stations after convicted IRA gunmen, so called freedom fighters,
or should the main stadium the north be named after a convicted traitor.

They're not a patch on the true freedom fighters, The Fenian Brotherhood. These Nordies have a cheek. Next they'll be claiming Tom Clarke as some type of Nordie.



I don't care who/what you bring up from 1916, the War of Independence, the Civil War, 1798, the Cromwellian times, anything.
I wasn't around in those times, I don't have any great knowledge or opinion on what happened then.
I was around when the Omagh bomb went off and when Jerry McCabe was murdered. I mightn't have a huge amount of knowledge, but I have an opinion on the people who carried out those acts. There's not a hope in hell I'd want to celebrate them or to insult those who suffered by their acts by having a national holiday in their honour.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 23, 2013, 04:23:54 PM
Was on a canvas today in Cookstown and if response on doors anything to go by Francie is a shoe in.Gerry's teddys not mentioned once >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2013, 04:26:22 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 23, 2013, 04:23:54 PM
Was on a canvas today in Cookstown and if response on doors anything to go by Francie is a shoe in.Gerry's teddys not mentioned once >:(

They haven't gone away you know.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on February 23, 2013, 05:00:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 23, 2013, 04:23:54 PM
Was on a canvas today in Cookstown and if response on doors anything to go by Francie is a shoe in.Gerry's teddys not mentioned once >:(
Did you gauge Unionist opinion? With the Unionist Unity candidate and split Nationalist vote it's hardly a foregone conclusion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 23, 2013, 05:15:12 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 23, 2013, 05:00:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 23, 2013, 04:23:54 PM
Was on a canvas today in Cookstown and if response on doors anything to go by Francie is a shoe in.Gerry's teddys not mentioned once >:(
Did you gauge Unionist opinion? With the Unionist Unity candidate and split Nationalist vote it's hardly a foregone conclusion.

No split Nationalist vote that I seen Patsy not mentioned at doors but will prob get his usual 7/8 thousand vote will still leave Francie with plenty to spare,stick your lot on him ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2013, 05:32:07 PM
@conorspackman: New Red C Poll for Sunday BP has FG on 28% (nc) FF on 26% (+5) SF on 16% (-3) Lab on 12% (+1) and Indies/Others on 18% (-3)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2013, 05:39:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2013, 05:32:07 PM
@conorspackman: New Red C Poll for Sunday BP has FG on 28% (nc) FF on 26% (+5) SF on 16% (-3) Lab on 12% (+1) and Indies/Others on 18% (-3)

Democracy doesn't suit us.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on February 23, 2013, 09:44:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2013, 05:39:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2013, 05:32:07 PM
@conorspackman: New Red C Poll for Sunday BP has FG on 28% (nc) FF on 26% (+5) SF on 16% (-3) Lab on 12% (+1) and Indies/Others on 18% (-3)

Democracy doesn't suit us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWdfRRtAs3o
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWdfRRtAs3o)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2013, 09:58:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2013, 05:39:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2013, 05:32:07 PM
@conorspackman: New Red C Poll for Sunday BP has FG on 28% (nc) FF on 26% (+5) SF on 16% (-3) Lab on 12% (+1) and Indies/Others on 18% (-3)

Democracy doesn't suit us.

Or them ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 23, 2013, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2013, 05:39:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2013, 05:32:07 PM
@conorspackman: New Red C Poll for Sunday BP has FG on 28% (nc) FF on 26% (+5) SF on 16% (-3) Lab on 12% (+1) and Indies/Others on 18% (-3)

Democracy doesn't suit us.
Not exactly spoiled for choice (north or south).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 02:00:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 23, 2013, 03:00:34 PM
I don't care who/what you bring up from 1916, the War of Independence, the Civil War, 1798, the Cromwellian times, anything.
I wasn't around in those times, I don't have any great knowledge or opinion on what happened then...

Indeed, your ignorance of your own history is blissful, and precisely why your opinion will count for diddly-squat in a decade or two.

Incidentally, enlighten me please as to the last time SF extolled the Republican virtues of the Omagh bombers, or such, that you incessantly bleat on about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 08:43:26 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 02:00:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 23, 2013, 03:00:34 PM
I don't care who/what you bring up from 1916, the War of Independence, the Civil War, 1798, the Cromwellian times, anything.
I wasn't around in those times, I don't have any great knowledge or opinion on what happened then...

Indeed, your ignorance of your own history is blissful, and precisely why your opinion will count for diddly-squat in a decade or two.

Incidentally, enlighten me please as to the last time SF extolled the Republican virtues of the Omagh bombers, or such, that you incessantly bleat on about.
But if you want to dedicate a day to "all those who fought for Irish freedom", where do you draw the line? Surely that's the point. If SF want to include those in the PIRA, on what basis can they exclude the dissidents, who also consider themselves as fighting for 'Irish freedom'?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 08:45:10 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 23, 2013, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2013, 05:39:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2013, 05:32:07 PM
@conorspackman: New Red C Poll for Sunday BP has FG on 28% (nc) FF on 26% (+5) SF on 16% (-3) Lab on 12% (+1) and Indies/Others on 18% (-3)

Democracy doesn't suit us.
Not exactly spoiled for choice (north or south).
Strange really that no new party has formed in the south. Looks like it's FG or FF leading the government for the forseeable future.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 10:39:53 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 08:43:26 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 02:00:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 23, 2013, 03:00:34 PM
I don't care who/what you bring up from 1916, the War of Independence, the Civil War, 1798, the Cromwellian times, anything.
I wasn't around in those times, I don't have any great knowledge or opinion on what happened then...

Indeed, your ignorance of your own history is blissful, and precisely why your opinion will count for diddly-squat in a decade or two.

Incidentally, enlighten me please as to the last time SF extolled the Republican virtues of the Omagh bombers, or such, that you incessantly bleat on about.
But if you want to dedicate a day to "all those who fought for Irish freedom", where do you draw the line? Surely that's the point. If SF want to include those in the PIRA, on what basis can they exclude the dissidents, who also consider themselves as fighting for 'Irish freedom'?

Where does every other country draw the line? Anyway, was listening to a SF rep on the last word and idea was a bit more than remembering those who fought for Irish freedom. It was about celebrating the republic, the ideals of a republic an remembering those who fought for it. Nothing wrong with that unless of course you are looking for problems. Might be best to wait till there are 32 counties in the republic though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 10:47:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 10:39:53 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 08:43:26 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 02:00:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 23, 2013, 03:00:34 PM
I don't care who/what you bring up from 1916, the War of Independence, the Civil War, 1798, the Cromwellian times, anything.
I wasn't around in those times, I don't have any great knowledge or opinion on what happened then...

Indeed, your ignorance of your own history is blissful, and precisely why your opinion will count for diddly-squat in a decade or two.

Incidentally, enlighten me please as to the last time SF extolled the Republican virtues of the Omagh bombers, or such, that you incessantly bleat on about.
But if you want to dedicate a day to "all those who fought for Irish freedom", where do you draw the line? Surely that's the point. If SF want to include those in the PIRA, on what basis can they exclude the dissidents, who also consider themselves as fighting for 'Irish freedom'?

Where does every other country draw the line? Anyway, was listening to a SF rep on the last word and idea was a bit more than remembering those who fought for Irish freedom. It was about celebrating the republic, the ideals of a republic an remembering those who fought for it. Nothing wrong with that unless of course you are looking for problems. Might be best to wait till there are 32 counties in the republic though.
I don't know where every other country draws the line. But this proposal from SF appears to be counting the PIRA as those who 'fought for Irish freedom', and that's clearly going to be an issue for plenty of people. Especially when you could reasonably argue that many of those 'fighting for Irish freedom' in recent history have actually set it back decades.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stephenite on February 24, 2013, 11:00:11 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 02:00:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 23, 2013, 03:00:34 PM
I don't care who/what you bring up from 1916, the War of Independence, the Civil War, 1798, the Cromwellian times, anything.
I wasn't around in those times, I don't have any great knowledge or opinion on what happened then...

Indeed, your ignorance of your own history is blissful, and precisely why your opinion will count for diddly-squat in a decade or two.

Incidentally, enlighten me please as to the last time SF extolled the Republican virtues of the Omagh bombers, or such, that you incessantly bleat on about.

What does this mean?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 01:11:29 PM
Quote from: stephenite on February 24, 2013, 11:00:11 AM
What does this mean?

All contemporary opinions will be irrelevant in time, and the more uninformed an opinion is the quicker it will be irrelevant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 01:15:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 08:43:26 AM
But if you want to dedicate a day to "all those who fought for Irish freedom", where do you draw the line? Surely that's the point. If SF want to include those in the PIRA, on what basis can they exclude the dissidents, who also consider themselves as fighting for 'Irish freedom'?

Yes, it would be fraught to be sure, but to continuously misascribe re the Omagh bombers, etc., does nothing to shed any light.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 01:15:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 08:43:26 AM
But if you want to dedicate a day to "all those who fought for Irish freedom", where do you draw the line? Surely that's the point. If SF want to include those in the PIRA, on what basis can they exclude the dissidents, who also consider themselves as fighting for 'Irish freedom'?

Yes, it would be fraught to be sure, but to continuously misascribe re the Omagh bombers, etc., does nothing to shed any light.
Omagh is a red herring - there are plenty of relevant examples.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 04:16:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 10:39:53 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 08:43:26 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 02:00:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 23, 2013, 03:00:34 PM
I don't care who/what you bring up from 1916, the War of Independence, the Civil War, 1798, the Cromwellian times, anything.
I wasn't around in those times, I don't have any great knowledge or opinion on what happened then...

Indeed, your ignorance of your own history is blissful, and precisely why your opinion will count for diddly-squat in a decade or two.

Incidentally, enlighten me please as to the last time SF extolled the Republican virtues of the Omagh bombers, or such, that you incessantly bleat on about.
But if you want to dedicate a day to "all those who fought for Irish freedom", where do you draw the line? Surely that's the point. If SF want to include those in the PIRA, on what basis can they exclude the dissidents, who also consider themselves as fighting for 'Irish freedom'?

Where does every other country draw the line? Anyway, was listening to a SF rep on the last word and idea was a bit more than remembering those who fought for Irish freedom. It was about celebrating the republic, the ideals of a republic an remembering those who fought for it. Nothing wrong with that unless of course you are looking for problems. Might be best to wait till there are 32 counties in the republic though.

Why remember the murderers of McCabe and Morley while forgetting Davitt and O'Connell simply because they didn't shoot enough people? Are the only Irish worth remembering the killers? Is that who we are?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 04:20:11 PM
What about Dan Breen, the atrocities of 1798 etc. Does that mean we can't remember. Its typical blue shirt shite yet spouting lads and selective history is their speciality.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 24, 2013, 04:21:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2013, 04:03:45 PM
Omagh is a red herring - there are plenty of relevant examples.

All the more reason not to be crassly inaccurate about it then.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 04:25:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 04:20:11 PM
What about Dan Breen, the atrocities of 1798 etc. Does that mean we can't remember. Its typical blue shirt shite yet spouting lads and selective history is their speciality.

Why the need for British style celebration of war?

Do we need to imitate Poppy Day?

'Croppy Day' anyone?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2013, 04:25:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 04:20:11 PM
What about Dan Breen, the atrocities of 1798 etc. Does that mean we can't remember. Its typical blue shirt shite yet spouting lads and selective history is their speciality.

Why the need for British style celebration of war?

Do we need to imitate Poppy Day?

'Croppy Day' anyone?

We are celebrating Ireland you idiot, not war. I don't foresee people being forced to celebrate it either so nothing like poppy day. Are you ashamed if Ireland Muppet?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2013, 04:48:27 PM
Did SF came up with this idea as a result of their slide in the opinion polls?  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 04:58:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 04:45:30 PM
We are celebrating Ireland you idiot, not war. I don't foresee people being forced to celebrate it either so nothing like poppy day. Are you ashamed if Ireland Muppet?

Ad hominem.

Stage one as usual masking the complete lack of an argument.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2013, 04:58:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 04:45:30 PM
We are celebrating Ireland you idiot, not war. I don't foresee people being forced to celebrate it either so nothing like poppy day. Are you ashamed if Ireland Muppet?

Ad hominem.

Stage one as usual masking the complete lack of an argument.

Away with your auld bullshit about stage 1. You can't answer a question so you try to put some sort of derogatory classification on the questioner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 05:23:33 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2013, 04:58:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 04:45:30 PM
We are celebrating Ireland you idiot, not war. I don't foresee people being forced to celebrate it either so nothing like poppy day. Are you ashamed if Ireland Muppet?

Ad hominem.

Stage one as usual masking the complete lack of an argument.

Away with your auld bullshit about stage 1. You can't answer a question so you try to put some sort of derogatory classification on the questioner.

Your question isn't meant to be answered. It is simply an insult along with the rest of your post.

SF are losing in the polls to Fianna Fáil. Gerry is simply flying a political kite to fool supporters into thinking he is doing something.

You took the bait and went off fighting the world on the net instead of asking why SF are slipping.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 05:29:58 PM
I never voted sf before. But I have pride in my country and where we came from and I think the idea has merit. You brought up extreme examples of people being killed as some sort of reason that this is a bad idea while our history, and the history of every country is riddled with events like this. You would be supporting this if fg came up with it I wager. Its not the idea you don't like rather the source of the idea. By the way, sf were doing ok in polls until today's one so that's bullshit as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 05:37:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 05:29:58 PM
I never voted sf before. But I have pride in my country and where we came from and I think the idea has merit. You brought up extreme examples of people being killed as some sort of reason that this is a bad idea while our history, and the history of every country is riddled with events like this. You would be supporting this if fg came up with it I wager. Its not the idea you don't like rather the source of the idea. By the way, sf were doing ok in polls until today's one so that's bullshit as well.

Firstly I do not support FG.

Secondly it is not a real idea. He isn't serious. FG, FF, Labour, Independants, PDs and gay teddies will not support it because of the McCabe murder, Morley murder etc. so it has zero chance of flying in the 26.

It is a weak political stunt but it seems the usual suspects blindly buy it.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on February 24, 2013, 05:55:09 PM
Exactly how is Omagh different from :-

Enniskillen
Darkley
Shankill
Tullyvallen
La Mon
Bloody Friday
Kingsmills
Teebane

Which of these deserve to be described as heroic acts for Irish freedom?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 06:00:48 PM
The irony with the above post is that the only people I can think of that view history the same way as Republicans, making absolutely no allowance for either time or context, are Israel and Unionists/Loyalists.

Congrats Baldy, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on February 24, 2013, 06:15:53 PM
All were mass murders carried out in the name of Irish freedom. At the time of all the above, they were condemned by anyone with an ounce of decency. Please explain to me how the mass murder of civilians is justified, or do you feel the mass murder of Irishmen is less abhorrant than that of palestinians?

It really annoys you that an Irishman can support Israel and despise the murder of his fellow Irishmen, doesn't it. My family have suffered at the hands of these "heroes", maybe that's why I hold the views I do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 24, 2013, 06:15:53 PM
All were mass murders carried out in the name of Irish freedom. At the time of all the above, they were condemned by anyone with an ounce of decency. Please explain to me how the mass murder of civilians is justified, or do you feel the mass murder of Irishmen is less abhorrant than that of palestinians?

It really annoys you that an Irishman can support Israel and despise the murder of his fellow Irishmen, doesn't it. My family have suffered at the hands of these "heroes", maybe that's why I hold the views I do.

Eh no. I despise the killng of innocents everywhere at any time. That is my problem with Israel. You can support whatever murders you like, it is a free world.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on February 24, 2013, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2013, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 24, 2013, 06:15:53 PM
All were mass murders carried out in the name of Irish freedom. At the time of all the above, they were condemned by anyone with an ounce of decency. Please explain to me how the mass murder of civilians is justified, or do you feel the mass murder of Irishmen is less abhorrant than that of palestinians?

It really annoys you that an Irishman can support Israel and despise the murder of his fellow Irishmen, doesn't it. My family have suffered at the hands of these "heroes", maybe that's why I hold the views I do.

Eh no. I despise the killng of innocents everywhere at any time. That is my problem with Israel. You can support whatever murders you like, it is a free world.
Well, can anyone explain how Omagh differs from the atrocities above, and in what time/context it should be taken? I fail to see how mass murder of Irish civilians pre GFA is in any way more justifiable than mass murder post GFA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 24, 2013, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2013, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 24, 2013, 06:15:53 PM
All were mass murders carried out in the name of Irish freedom. At the time of all the above, they were condemned by anyone with an ounce of decency. Please explain to me how the mass murder of civilians is justified, or do you feel the mass murder of Irishmen is less abhorrant than that of palestinians?

It really annoys you that an Irishman can support Israel and despise the murder of his fellow Irishmen, doesn't it. My family have suffered at the hands of these "heroes", maybe that's why I hold the views I do.

Eh no. I despise the killng of innocents everywhere at any time. That is my problem with Israel. You can support whatever murders you like, it is a free world.
Well, can anyone explain how Omagh differs from the atrocities above, and in what time/context it should be taken? I fail to see how mass murder of Irish civilians pre GFA is in any way more justifiable than mass murder post GFA.

I am justifying none of them. Quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 09:00:41 PM
Just wondering, would it be ok to remember all who died for independence if we drew a line at 1922? If not why not? Ballbag- have you an issue with the 1916 rising and the war of independence too? I'm wondering should I be ashamed of the Irishmen from that era, no doubt branded as terrorists by the British empire.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 09:00:41 PM
Just wondering, would it be ok to remember all who died for independence if we drew a line at 1922? If not why not? Ballbag- have you an issue with the 1916 rising and the war of independence too? I'm wondering should I be ashamed of the Irishmen from that era, no doubt branded as terrorists by the British empire.

You fit in perfectly. The same out of context history lecture.

Why is it not one single supporter of this pretend proposal can exclude the McCabe killers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 09:51:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2013, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 09:00:41 PM
Just wondering, would it be ok to remember all who died for independence if we drew a line at 1922? If not why not? Ballbag- have you an issue with the 1916 rising and the war of independence too? I'm wondering should I be ashamed of the Irishmen from that era, no doubt branded as terrorists by the British empire.

You fit in perfectly. The same out of context history lecture.

Why is it not one single supporter of this pretend proposal can exclude the McCabe killers?

It was a question Muppet, one you won't answer it seems. I have no problem excluding people who rob banks and fun down gardai in cold blood. Any chance you'd answer my question?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 25, 2013, 05:23:32 AM
You asked am I ashamed to be Irish.

Because I disagree with a stunt from Gerry Adams?

That question is beneath contempt and you should be ashamed of yourself for asking any Irishman that. Who are you to tell me or anyone else how to be Irish?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on February 25, 2013, 07:10:01 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 09:00:41 PM
Just wondering, would it be ok to remember all who died for independence if we drew a line at 1922? If not why not? Ballbag- have you an issue with the 1916 rising and the war of independence too? I'm wondering should I be ashamed of the Irishmen from that era, no doubt branded as terrorists by the British empire.
Are you proud of everything done in your name, and Irish freedom?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 25, 2013, 10:54:27 AM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 24, 2013, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2013, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 24, 2013, 06:15:53 PM
All were mass murders carried out in the name of Irish freedom. At the time of all the above, they were condemned by anyone with an ounce of decency. Please explain to me how the mass murder of civilians is justified, or do you feel the mass murder of Irishmen is less abhorrant than that of palestinians?

It really annoys you that an Irishman can support Israel and despise the murder of his fellow Irishmen, doesn't it. My family have suffered at the hands of these "heroes", maybe that's why I hold the views I do.

You're some hypocritical ****** . Moaning about killings of civilians by Irish guerillas while supporting the biggest murderers of civilians on the planet the Israeli imperialist racist land grabbing rulers.
Or are we back to the old "hierarchy of victims " trick again ?

Eh no. I despise the killng of innocents everywhere at any time. That is my problem with Israel. You can support whatever murders you like, it is a free world.
Well, can anyone explain how Omagh differs from the atrocities above, and in what time/context it should be taken? I fail to see how mass murder of Irish civilians pre GFA is in any way more justifiable than mass murder post GFA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 25, 2013, 11:06:48 AM
Adams for all the good work he put in leading to the GFA has become an embarrassing parody. His tweets about gay teddies may have been meant to be humorous, but they are actually patronising and insulting to the gay community. His continued protesting not being an IRA member also impacts on his credibility. Any call for a day to recognise those who gave their lives for Irish freedom is premature as the cause for which so many died has not been realised, due in no small part to the GFA. Furthermore any commemoration of such people would be divisive and to my mind just copying the Orange Order who irrespective of nationalist feelings hold parades to commemorate UDR etc... Sure we can't even agree with ourselves on 1916/22...Take it down from the masts and all that. To get back to Adams, he may well have not been in an active Service Unit but I have no doubt he was involved at some level in the Army Council so any denial is just splitting hairs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 25, 2013, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 25, 2013, 11:06:48 AM
Adams for all the good work he put in leading to the GFA has become an embarrassing parody. His tweets about gay teddies may have been meant to be humorous, but they are actually patronising and insulting to the gay community. His continued protesting not being an IRA member also impacts on his credibility. Any call for a day to recognise those who gave their lives for Irish freedom is premature as the cause for which so many died has not been realised, due in no small part to the GFA. Furthermore any commemoration of such people would be divisive and to my mind just copying the Orange Order who irrespective of nationalist feelings hold parades to commemorate UDR etc... Sure we can't even agree with ourselves on 1916/22...Take it down from the masts and all that. To get back to Adams, he may well have not been in an active Service Unit but I have no doubt he was involved at some level in the Army Council so any denial is just splitting hairs.

For Gods sake will you get over yourself.When have you ever heard anyone say they were in the IRA other than those who have served time for being a member of that organisation,a tout like Sean O'Callaghan or barstool Republicans bumming about what they did in the war.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 25, 2013, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 25, 2013, 05:23:32 AM
You asked am I ashamed to be Irish.

Because I disagree with a stunt from Gerry Adams?

That question is beneath contempt and you should be ashamed of yourself for asking any Irishman that. Who are you to tell me or anyone else how to be Irish?

Here is the question again - Gerry Adams name is not even in it so stop being such a coward and answer it...

Just wondering, would it be ok to remember all who died for independence if we drew a line at 1922? If not why not?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 25, 2013, 04:24:02 PM
Quote from: Ball DeBeaver on February 25, 2013, 07:10:01 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 09:00:41 PM
Just wondering, would it be ok to remember all who died for independence if we drew a line at 1922? If not why not? Ballbag- have you an issue with the 1916 rising and the war of independence too? I'm wondering should I be ashamed of the Irishmen from that era, no doubt branded as terrorists by the British empire.
Are you proud of everything done in your name, and Irish freedom?

No I am not. At least someone is answering question (me). I ask you the same question that muppet won't answer...

Just wondering, would it be ok to remember all who died for independence if we drew a line at 1922? If not why not?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 25, 2013, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 25, 2013, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 25, 2013, 05:23:32 AM
You asked am I ashamed to be Irish.

Because I disagree with a stunt from Gerry Adams?

That question is beneath contempt and you should be ashamed of yourself for asking any Irishman that. Who are you to tell me or anyone else how to be Irish?

Here is the question again - Gerry Adams name is not even in it so stop being such a coward and answer it...

Just wondering, would it be ok to remember all who died for independence if we drew a line at 1922? If not why not?

It is already done. That is why we have the Garden of Remembrance. Whether I think it right or not is irrelevant. Our democracy has done it.

Last week Adams tweeted the following:

Gerry Adams ‏@GerryAdamsSF
Raised plight of Front Line workers with T & his attitude 2them v Golden Circles. Met some of survivors of Magdalenes.A great honour 4 me.

If he were serious about a worthy commemoration he might have suggested those women and there would have been very little protests, certainly none from me. And there would be no victims' families, friends and colleagues to offend either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 25, 2013, 06:35:39 PM
I note you didn't answer the question, that is your right of course.

I'm also sure if you asked Gerry or any other party leader they would be in favour of remembering all victims of clerical abuse.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 25, 2013, 07:31:37 PM
the way this thread is developing is exactly why i think gerry should step aside. no matter what the subject concerning sinn fein it turns into a credibility side-show about gerrys past. this in terms of being the party leader is unfair to adams since his leadership has never been challanged in any meaningful way. therefore it is ok to presume that the party have confidence in him even though members may murmer. contrast this with enda kenny who was challanged even though the election was in the bag. to be fair to gerry he has never hidden away unlike enda who took to the cupboard for 2 weeks before the election just incase he blew it. how do you tell a man who has spent the last 30 years working under a death theat to improve the republican cause that he has become a liability?  :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 25, 2013, 07:56:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 25, 2013, 06:35:39 PM
I note you didn't answer the question, that is your right of course.

I'm also sure if you asked Gerry or any other party leader they would be in favour of remembering all victims of clerical abuse.

First point, I did answer the question though not as you expected. It is moot as the Garden of Remembrance already exists.

Second point, a good idea is a good idea. If Gerry suggested it I would still think it worthy. The only caveat is a public holiday is probably a non-runner in times of austerity, too expensive for employers. But I would agree something should be done no matter who suggests it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 26, 2013, 07:17:04 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 25, 2013, 07:31:37 PM
to be fair to gerry he has never hidden away unlike enda who took to the cupboard for 2 weeks before the election just incase he blew it.
If only Gerry had thought of that in 2007.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 26, 2013, 10:17:39 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 25, 2013, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 25, 2013, 11:06:48 AM
Adams for all the good work he put in leading to the GFA has become an embarrassing parody. His tweets about gay teddies may have been meant to be humorous, but they are actually patronising and insulting to the gay community. His continued protesting not being an IRA member also impacts on his credibility. Any call for a day to recognise those who gave their lives for Irish freedom is premature as the cause for which so many died has not been realised, due in no small part to the GFA. Furthermore any commemoration of such people would be divisive and to my mind just copying the Orange Order who irrespective of nationalist feelings hold parades to commemorate UDR etc... Sure we can't even agree with ourselves on 1916/22...Take it down from the masts and all that. To get back to Adams, he may well have not been in an active Service Unit but I have no doubt he was involved at some level in the Army Council so any denial is just splitting hairs.

For Gods sake will you get over yourself.When have you ever heard anyone say they were in the IRA other than those who have served time for being a member of that organisation,a tout like Sean O'Callaghan or barstool Republicans bumming about what they did in the war.
McGuinness has no problem.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 26, 2013, 10:42:43 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 26, 2013, 10:17:39 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 25, 2013, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 25, 2013, 11:06:48 AM
Adams for all the good work he put in leading to the GFA has become an embarrassing parody. His tweets about gay teddies may have been meant to be humorous, but they are actually patronising and insulting to the gay community. His continued protesting not being an IRA member also impacts on his credibility. Any call for a day to recognise those who gave their lives for Irish freedom is premature as the cause for which so many died has not been realised, due in no small part to the GFA. Furthermore any commemoration of such people would be divisive and to my mind just copying the Orange Order who irrespective of nationalist feelings hold parades to commemorate UDR etc... Sure we can't even agree with ourselves on 1916/22...Take it down from the masts and all that. To get back to Adams, he may well have not been in an active Service Unit but I have no doubt he was involved at some level in the Army Council so any denial is just splitting hairs.

For Gods sake will you get over yourself.When have you ever heard anyone say they were in the IRA other than those who have served time for being a member of that organisation,a tout like Sean O'Callaghan or barstool Republicans bumming about what they did in the war.
McGuinness has no problem.

Read my post he was jailed for membership.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 26, 2013, 10:48:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 26, 2013, 10:17:39 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 25, 2013, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 25, 2013, 11:06:48 AM
Adams for all the good work he put in leading to the GFA has become an embarrassing parody. His tweets about gay teddies may have been meant to be humorous, but they are actually patronising and insulting to the gay community. His continued protesting not being an IRA member also impacts on his credibility. Any call for a day to recognise those who gave their lives for Irish freedom is premature as the cause for which so many died has not been realised, due in no small part to the GFA. Furthermore any commemoration of such people would be divisive and to my mind just copying the Orange Order who irrespective of nationalist feelings hold parades to commemorate UDR etc... Sure we can't even agree with ourselves on 1916/22...Take it down from the masts and all that. To get back to Adams, he may well have not been in an active Service Unit but I have no doubt he was involved at some level in the Army Council so any denial is just splitting hairs.

For Gods sake will you get over yourself.When have you ever heard anyone say they were in the IRA other than those who have served time for being a member of that organisation,a tout like Sean O'Callaghan or barstool Republicans bumming about what they did in the war.
McGuinness has no problem.

In 1973, he was convicted by the Republic of Ireland's Special Criminal Court, after being arrested near a car containing 250 lb (113 kg) of explosives and nearly 5,000 rounds of ammunition. He refused to recognise the court, and was sentenced to six months imprisonment. In court, he declared his membership of the Provisional IRA without equivocation: 'We have fought against the killing of our people... I am a member of Óglaigh na hÉireann and very, very proud of it'.[13]

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 26, 2013, 02:19:49 PM
Glens, as a SF supporter and probably from your posts a member if not an elected Representative, your promotion of the party line is admirable. However I am voter who has in the past voted SF. I am however not emamoured by Gerry's denials and gay teddy tweets. I am also some what put off by SF's recent antic's on the border poll not to mention their lack of performance in Stormont and courtship of the DUP. if you want people like me to vote for your party then you can not dismiss my concerns in the way that you have.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on February 26, 2013, 02:44:10 PM
The devil is in the tweet trail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 26, 2013, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 26, 2013, 02:44:10 PM
The devil is in the tweet trail.

Very good.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 09:24:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 26, 2013, 02:19:49 PM
Glens, as a SF supporter and probably from your posts a member if not an elected Representative, your promotion of the party line is admirable. However I am voter who has in the past voted SF. I am however not emamoured by Gerry's denials and gay teddy tweets. I am also some what put off by SF's recent antic's on the border poll not to mention their lack of performance in Stormont and courtship of the DUP. if you want people like me to vote for your party then you can not dismiss my concerns in the way that you have.

Yip Apples just a paid up card carrying member and no one is dismissing your concerns but it gets a bit tedious harping on about Gerry's denial regarding IRA membership.I told you in a previous post the only people who will admit this are either ex-pows,touts,or barstoll drunks.Why on earth would Gerry or anyone else for that matter say they were in the RA, risk jail and then the ongoing crap[how long were you a member,what did you do,what did you order,who else was in it,what did they do,etc;ect;]As for the teddies think we all need to lighten up a little.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on February 27, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 09:24:32 AMWhy on earth would Gerry or anyone else for that matter say they were in the RA, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

I'll take your point on this until the next time you criticise a politician from another party.

I mean, why on earth should Michael Lowry or anyone else for that matter admit to corruption, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 27, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 09:24:32 AMWhy on earth would Gerry or anyone else for that matter say they were in the RA, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

I'll take your point on this until the next time you criticise a politician from another party.

I mean, why on earth should Michael Lowry or anyone else for that matter admit to corruption, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

Well for me it would be a completely different thing,as people in the North joined the Ra in the late 60's and 70's to defend their people and fight against an occupying army not line their own pockets like Michael Lowry,Bertie Aherne etc.I know you will have a different view on this Hardy but that is the way I see it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 27, 2013, 12:54:42 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 27, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 09:24:32 AMWhy on earth would Gerry or anyone else for that matter say they were in the RA, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

I'll take your point on this until the next time you criticise a politician from another party.

I mean, why on earth should Michael Lowry or anyone else for that matter admit to corruption, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

Well for me it would be a completely different thing,as people in the North joined the Ra in the late 60's and 70's to defend their people and fight against an occupying army not line their own pockets like Michael Lowry,Bertie Aherne etc.I know you will have a different view on this Hardy but that is the way I see it.
A lot of people would take that with a pinch of salt.
Fighting an occupying army would be grand if that was all they did ... but .... I don't need to list the various "operations" which killed so many Irish or English civilians with not a British soldier in sight .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on February 27, 2013, 01:09:16 PM
Quotenot line their own pockets

Ah c'mon. Are you serious?

Border smuggling, diesel laundering, protection rackets, running of nightclubs and pubs .....all these funds did not find their way into P.O'Neill's bank account to fight the 'Brits'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 01:15:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 27, 2013, 12:54:42 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 27, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 09:24:32 AMWhy on earth would Gerry or anyone else for that matter say they were in the RA, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

I'll take your point on this until the next time you criticise a politician from another party.

I mean, why on earth should Michael Lowry or anyone else for that matter admit to corruption, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

Well for me it would be a completely different thing,as people in the North joined the Ra in the late 60's and 70's to defend their people and fight against an occupying army not line their own pockets like Michael Lowry,Bertie Aherne etc.I know you will have a different view on this Hardy but that is the way I see it.
A lot of people would take that with a pinch of salt.
Fighting an occupying army would be grand if that was all they did ... but .... I don't need to list the various "operations" which killed so many Irish or English civilians with not a British soldier in sight .

I wasn't trying to convince anyone Ross,its up to you and Hardy and anyone else to believe what you want I was just stating what I believe having lived among them and known many of them over the years.Yes I agree that many non-combatants were killed during the war and would not try and excuse that unfortunately it has happened in every conflit since  time began but that doesn't make it right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on February 27, 2013, 01:09:16 PM
Quotenot line their own pockets

Ah c'mon. Are you serious?

Border smuggling, diesel laundering, protection rackets, running of nightclubs and pubs .....all these funds did not find their way into P.O'Neill's bank account to fight the 'Brits'.

Oh I never said that money wasn't raised to fight the war,but would not agree with all of your list.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mylestheslasher on February 27, 2013, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on February 27, 2013, 01:09:16 PM
Quotenot line their own pockets

Ah c'mon. Are you serious?

Border smuggling, diesel laundering, protection rackets, running of nightclubs and pubs .....all these funds did not find their way into P.O'Neill's bank account to fight the 'Brits'.

Who got it then? I always wanted to know that. When the Sunday world told me about all the money that individuals in the IRA were getting I always wondered who are these individuals as I don't know them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Puckoon on February 27, 2013, 04:01:20 PM
Serious question: I saw this photo on a friend's facebook a few days ago in remembrance of IRA volunteers killed.

I noticed at the bottom there seems to be a "nod" to the civilians who have died in the troubles. Is this common among these memorials and does it extend to the civilians who may or may not have been killed at the hands of the names listed above the statement?

I found it a very interesting and I wonder if absolutely any of the families of civilian victims would find much appreciation in it? Anyone with any insight?

(http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/victims/memorials/photos/Co_Tyrone/Ardboe/Kilmascally_Rd/IRA_Memorial_Garden/lrg/ABO09MEM_IRA_Memorial_Garden_4693.JPG)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 27, 2013, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 27, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 09:24:32 AMWhy on earth would Gerry or anyone else for that matter say they were in the RA, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

I'll take your point on this until the next time you criticise a politician from another party.

I mean, why on earth should Michael Lowry or anyone else for that matter admit to corruption, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

Well for me it would be a completely different thing,as people in the North joined the Ra in the late 60's and 70's to defend their people and fight against an occupying army not line their own pockets like Michael Lowry,Bertie Aherne etc.I know you will have a different view on this Hardy but that is the way I see it.

Serious question: Why couldn't any senior public figures, who may have been members of the PIRA in the past, come clean after the Good Friday Agreement was passed? Further to that did the GFA give them an any form of amnesty if they did come clean?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on February 27, 2013, 04:19:18 PM
QuoteFurther to that did the GFA give them an any form of amnesty if they did come clean?

AFAIK it did not. It provided that someone found guilty of an offence after the GFA but committed before the GFA and which qualified as an offence under the GFA had to serve something like 2 years before they could be released under the terms of the GFA.

But I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 27, 2013, 05:27:07 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on February 27, 2013, 04:01:20 PM
Serious question: I saw this photo on a friend's facebook a few days ago in remembrance of IRA volunteers killed.

I noticed at the bottom there seems to be a "nod" to the civilians who have died in the troubles. Is this common among these memorials and does it extend to the civilians who may or may not have been killed at the hands of the names listed above the statement?

I found it a very interesting and I wonder if absolutely any of the families of civilian victims would find much appreciation in it? Anyone with any insight?
I know how I'd feel.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 27, 2013, 05:28:31 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 27, 2013, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on February 27, 2013, 01:09:16 PM
Quotenot line their own pockets

Ah c'mon. Are you serious?

Border smuggling, diesel laundering, protection rackets, running of nightclubs and pubs .....all these funds did not find their way into P.O'Neill's bank account to fight the 'Brits'.

Who got it then? I always wanted to know that. When the Sunday world told me about all the money that individuals in the IRA were getting I always wondered who are these individuals as I don't know them.
Would you expect to know them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 28, 2013, 09:21:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 27, 2013, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 27, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 09:24:32 AMWhy on earth would Gerry or anyone else for that matter say they were in the RA, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

I'll take your point on this until the next time you criticise a politician from another party.

I mean, why on earth should Michael Lowry or anyone else for that matter admit to corruption, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

Well for me it would be a completely different thing,as people in the North joined the Ra in the late 60's and 70's to defend their people and fight against an occupying army not line their own pockets like Michael Lowry,Bertie Aherne etc.I know you will have a different view on this Hardy but that is the way I see it.

Serious question: Why couldn't any senior public figures, who may have been members of the PIRA in the past, come clean after the Good Friday Agreement was passed? Further to that did the GFA give them an any form of amnesty if they did come clean?

No they do not have an amnesty,Gerry Mc Geough is one example.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 28, 2013, 10:27:14 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 28, 2013, 09:21:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 27, 2013, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 27, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 09:24:32 AMWhy on earth would Gerry or anyone else for that matter say they were in the RA, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

I'll take your point on this until the next time you criticise a politician from another party.

I mean, why on earth should Michael Lowry or anyone else for that matter admit to corruption, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

Well for me it would be a completely different thing,as people in the North joined the Ra in the late 60's and 70's to defend their people and fight against an occupying army not line their own pockets like Michael Lowry,Bertie Aherne etc.I know you will have a different view on this Hardy but that is the way I see it.

Serious question: Why couldn't any senior public figures, who may have been members of the PIRA in the past, come clean after the Good Friday Agreement was passed? Further to that did the GFA give them an any form of amnesty if they did come clean?

No they do not have an amnesty,Gerry Mc Geough is one example.

Life might have been a lot simpler all round if they had negotiated such a process into the GFA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 28, 2013, 10:42:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 28, 2013, 10:27:14 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 28, 2013, 09:21:00 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 27, 2013, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 27, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: glens abu on February 27, 2013, 09:24:32 AMWhy on earth would Gerry or anyone else for that matter say they were in the RA, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

I'll take your point on this until the next time you criticise a politician from another party.

I mean, why on earth should Michael Lowry or anyone else for that matter admit to corruption, risk jail and then the ongoing crap ...

Well for me it would be a completely different thing,as people in the North joined the Ra in the late 60's and 70's to defend their people and fight against an occupying army not line their own pockets like Michael Lowry,Bertie Aherne etc.I know you will have a different view on this Hardy but that is the way I see it.

Serious question: Why couldn't any senior public figures, who may have been members of the PIRA in the past, come clean after the Good Friday Agreement was passed? Further to that did the GFA give them an any form of amnesty if they did come clean?

No they do not have an amnesty,Gerry Mc Geough is one example.

Life might have been a lot simpler all round if they had negotiated such a process into the GFA.

without a doubt but negotiations are all about compromise and the unionists couldn't buy into a full amnesty[they said as they had to sell it to victims]  so had to settle for release of all prisoners and people could still be charged with offences but only serve 2 years.Best we could get.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 28, 2013, 11:04:36 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 06, 2012, 11:29:16 AM
Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly has called for the immediate release of Padraic Wilson, claiming his arrest is politically motivated.Mr Wilson, a senior republican, is in custody after being charged with offences in relation to the murder of Robert McCartney in 2005.

Mr Kelly, said the arrest was political policing by some PSNI members and was undermining confidence in the police.

"This has gone through republicanism like a bush fire," he said.

"I can tell you frankly that many, many people have been in touch, from other colleagues, very angry about the idea that someone who was crucial to bringing people along in the peace process and political process is now behind bars where he should not be."

Mr Kelly said that the media should also be concerned at the arrest because under this legislation reporters could be charged for talking to illegal organisations.

He said a protest was being planned, and rejected suggestions his call as a member of the policing board was political interference in policing.

The SDLP's west Belfast MLA Alex Attwood said the party was trying to influence the justice system.

"In previous years, Sinn Fein complained of 'political influence' over the courts and of 'political policing'," he said.

"Today, in a brazen public way, Sinn Fein are at the same. People campaigned, worked and struggled to change 'the old order of things', for now Sinn Fein to recreate it, a modern version of the failed past, a renewed attempt to pressure politically the due process of law."

The DUP's Lord Morrow said: "Sinn Fein's stance on this serious matter does nothing to take Northern Ireland forward into a normal society despite their protestations that this is their aim and objective.

"They cannot expect to endear themselves to the Unionist community or portray a society of equals if they continue to practice a separatist agenda which applies only to their own ideals."

The Traditional Unionist Voice assembly member Jim Allister said plans for a protest were "unacceptable".

"It is hard to imagine a situation anywhere else in the western world where a party of government would take to the streets to demand the release of someone accused of serious terrorist offences," he said.

"Not only that but Wilson continues to hold a senior post within the party."

Padraic Wilson, 53, was a key negotiator in the Maze Prison in the late 1990s. He is Sinn Fein's director of international affairs.

He has been charged with IRA membership and addressing a meeting to encourage support for the IRA, which he denies.

They'll have to organise a few more protests. The heckler has been charged tonight in relation to the same offences. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21621583
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on February 28, 2013, 11:08:43 PM
Quare crack if they put him and Willie Frazer in the same cell
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 28, 2013, 11:17:40 PM
I was just thinking the same.

Willie has been naming him in public in relation to Kingsmill, I wonder will he be so vocal if they both end up on the same wing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on March 08, 2013, 04:42:47 AM
The Catholic unionist has triumphed over the Protestant unionist in the mid Ulster by election, though with a greatly reduced majority. The seat was vacated by the deputy prime minister of Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 08:03:24 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21692865

I would usually vote Sinn Fein , however, when will some of them ever learn? In his acceptance speech Francie Molloy thanks "...his colleague and comrade Martin McGuinness" for his hard work etc in the past. Yet he goes on total about not only being a representative for republicans but for all. The language and rhetoric espoused by some of the politicians does nothing but further alienate the so called people they claim to represent. I am sure the Black family from Cookstown are one step closer to accepting their change in representation this morning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 08, 2013, 09:38:50 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 08:03:24 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21692865

I would usually vote Sinn Fein , however, when will some of them ever learn? In his acceptance speech Francie Molloy thanks "...his colleague and comrade Martin McGuinness" for his hard work etc in the past. Yet he goes on total about not only being a representative for republicans but for all. The language and rhetoric espoused by some of the politicians does nothing but further alienate the so called people they claim to represent. I am sure the Black family from Cookstown are one step closer to accepting their change in representation this morning.

What is wrong with what he said,and why should it annoy the Black family any more than they will be annoyed anyway at another Sinn Fein victory.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on March 08, 2013, 10:45:14 AM
Come on lads, get your act together. That took over an hour and a half.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 12:00:24 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 08, 2013, 10:45:14 AM
Come on lads, get your act together. That took over an hour and a half.

Smug remark took you over an hour, hardy. Slipping up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
I accept that certain members of the unionist community, like the Black family, will never tolerate Sinn Fein. However language like "comrade" will only push more tolerant unionists/nationalists away, as well as those voters in the south who could be swayed towards Sinn Fein. IMO it serves no purpose whatsoever.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 08, 2013, 01:01:13 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
I accept that certain members of the unionist community, like the Black family, will never tolerate Sinn Fein. However language like "comrade" will only push more tolerant unionists/nationalists away, as well as those voters in the south who could be swayed towards Sinn Fein. IMO it serves no purpose whatsoever.

OK Gael point taken but its just a term used for a friend in struggle,maybe a bit Red but no offence intended.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 08, 2013, 01:34:13 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 08, 2013, 01:01:13 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
I accept that certain members of the unionist community, like the Black family, will never tolerate Sinn Fein. However language like "comrade" will only push more tolerant unionists/nationalists away, as well as those voters in the south who could be swayed towards Sinn Fein. IMO it serves no purpose whatsoever.

OK Gael point taken but its just a term used for a friend in struggle,maybe a bit Red but no offence intended.
I wasn't sure if it was Comrade (in arms), a nod to the past, or Comrade (as in marxist-leninist socialism) neither of which are appealing to a large demographic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 08, 2013, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 08, 2013, 01:34:13 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 08, 2013, 01:01:13 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
I accept that certain members of the unionist community, like the Black family, will never tolerate Sinn Fein. However language like "comrade" will only push more tolerant unionists/nationalists away, as well as those voters in the south who could be swayed towards Sinn Fein. IMO it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Jesus we better be careful not to offend anyone,esp those who would not even want to be in our company. ::)

OK Gael point taken but its just a term used for a friend in struggle,maybe a bit Red but no offence intended.
I wasn't sure if it was Comrade (in arms), a nod to the past, or Comrade (as in marxist-leninist socialism) neither of which are appealing to a large demographic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on March 08, 2013, 02:10:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
I accept that certain members of the unionist community, like the Black family, will never tolerate Sinn Fein. However language like "comrade" will only push more tolerant unionists/nationalists away, as well as those voters in the south who could be swayed towards Sinn Fein. IMO it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Sweet Jesus, talk about scraping the barrel to be offended. The only intolerance at play here is intolerance of the English language.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 08, 2013, 03:07:57 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
I accept that certain members of the unionist community, like the Black family, will never tolerate Sinn Fein. However language like "comrade" will only push more tolerant unionists/nationalists away, as well as those voters in the south who could be swayed towards Sinn Fein. IMO it serves no purpose whatsoever.

'Comrade' is left-leaning og, not Republican per se, and if an individual is offended by that, they're likely to be hostile to the whole idea of Socialism. And the (vast) majority of unionists will be so inclined, by definition.

SF didn't invent the word, its origins are not even based in this part of the world.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Apparently so on March 08, 2013, 03:30:58 PM
Lets get offended at something
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 08, 2013, 03:35:16 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 08, 2013, 03:07:57 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
I accept that certain members of the unionist community, like the Black family, will never tolerate Sinn Fein. However language like "comrade" will only push more tolerant unionists/nationalists away, as well as those voters in the south who could be swayed towards Sinn Fein. IMO it serves no purpose whatsoever.

'Comrade' is left-leaning og, not Republican per se, and if an individual is offended by that, they're likely to be hostile to the whole idea of Socialism. And the (vast) majority of unionists will be so inclined, by definition.

SF didn't invent the word, its origins are not even based in this part of the world.

Business class travel, expensive private surgery, type socialism ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 08, 2013, 03:48:40 PM
Saffron maybe when super Republicans like you and your clowns in RNU have fought the good fight some wealthy friends might help you out some day,but don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 08, 2013, 04:12:51 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 08, 2013, 03:35:16 PM
Business class travel, expensive private surgery, type socialism ?

And the last time Francie Molloy availed of such was when, exactly?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
Shinners very touchy today  ;D
Don't they just get very upset over mention of Gerry's rich friends helping him avail of private surgery.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 08, 2013, 04:21:28 PM
Not at all Ross I have no problem with it at all and if Gerry sits at next election he will still get elected.I get annoyed at Super RNU clowns critizing Gerry as I know them and they would sell their souls for a pint in the Glenpark.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 04:25:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
Shinners very touchy today  ;D
Don't they just get very upset over mention of Gerry's rich friends helping him avail of private surgery.

I think if the last few weeks have taught us anything about that story, it's that shinners aren't the ones who are getting upset about Adams hospital treatment. The only people crying about it are the little wannabe indo columnist types.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 04:25:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
Shinners very touchy today  ;D
Don't they just get very upset over mention of Gerry's rich friends helping him avail of private surgery.

I think if the last few weeks have taught us anything about that story, it's that shinners aren't the ones who are getting upset about Adams hospital treatment. The only people crying about it are the little wannabe indo columnist types.

Ye're getting upset when others mention it and dare I suggest point out the hypocrisy of it all.
"Our elected reps live on the average industrial wage you know". ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 04:25:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
Shinners very touchy today  ;D
Don't they just get very upset over mention of Gerry's rich friends helping him avail of private surgery.

I think if the last few weeks have taught us anything about that story, it's that shinners aren't the ones who are getting upset about Adams hospital treatment. The only people crying about it are the little wannabe indo columnist types.

Ye're getting upset when others mention it and dare I suggest point out the hypocrisy of it all.
"Our elected reps live on the average industrial wage you know". ;)

Upset? Just to reiterate, I couldn't give two fcuks about that particular "story".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 08, 2013, 04:48:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:37:05 PM
[Ye're getting upset when others mention it and dare I suggest point out the hypocrisy of it all.
"Our elected reps live on the average industrial wage you know". ;)

You might be better employed getting yourself all hot and bothered about what your elected reps do with YOUR money, than having a pop at SF about what they do with THEIR money.  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:51:16 PM
When you hear endless lectures from Mary Lou about how wrong everyone else is and how perfect SF are......... ::)
Ye're TDs ARE getting MY money and giving a load of it to SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:53:02 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 04:46:05 PM

Upset? Just to reiterate, I couldn't give two fcuks about that particular "story".

But you respond every time any non SF loyal followers raise it though  ;D ;) and apparently it's true so therefore it's a story not a "story"  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 08, 2013, 04:57:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:51:16 PM
When you hear endless lectures from Mary Lou about how wrong everyone else is and how perfect SF are......... ::)
Ye're TDs ARE getting MY money and giving a load of it to SF.

Yeah, honouring those private gambling debts of billions with your tax was woeful of them. Indeed.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 05:02:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:51:16 PM
Ye're TDs ARE getting MY money....
This money is called "wages".

Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:51:16 PM
...and giving a load of it to SF
Again. Its their own wages. They don't have to be accountable to you on how they use it. Afraid you may just suck it up  :D


P.s. If it's a crowd of politicians wasting YOUR money that you're after, might I offer you a hint of where to start looking:
"All I can say to the Irish people – some of whom may be watching tonight – is that if things go our way there will be a new government in six weeks time and the banks aren't getting another cent," (Leo Varadkar, FG, Feb 2011)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:53:02 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 04:46:05 PM

Upset? Just to reiterate, I couldn't give two fcuks about that particular "story".

But you respond every time any non SF loyal followers raise it though  ;D ;) and apparently it's true so therefore it's a story not a "story"  ;) ;)

I ate breakfast this morning. This is true. Hardly a "story" though is it? It's about as interesting as the "story" on Gerry Adams hospital treatment that you're still so wound up about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 05:37:05 PM
Gerry is a major political figure in a party which boasts of its "workingclassness" - then he avails of private medicine a choice not available to those of us lucky enough to be even earning around the average industrial wage.
To all non SFers who have listened to years of SF holier than thou ,everybody is awful except us perfect people - that reeks of hypocrisy ( do as we say not as we do".

Nallystand is not a major public figure and presumably has never sought kudos for not eating breakfasts so nobody is bothered.

Very simple - even a loyal Shinner could understand it  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 05:41:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 05:37:05 PM
Gerry is a major political figure in a party which boasts of its "workingclassness" - then he avails of private medicine a choice not available to those of us lucky enough to be even earning around the average industrial wage.
To all non SFers who have listened to years of SF holier than thou ,everybody is awful except us perfect people - that reeks of hypocrisy ( do as we say not as we do".

See, didn't I say it was yourself was the one upset about it!

Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
ShinnersLittle wannabe sindo columnists very touchy today  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 08, 2013, 02:10:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
I accept that certain members of the unionist community, like the Black family, will never tolerate Sinn Fein. However language like "comrade" will only push more tolerant unionists/nationalists away, as well as those voters in the south who could be swayed towards Sinn Fein. IMO it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Sweet Jesus, talk about scraping the barrel to be offended. The only intolerance at play here is intolerance of the English language.

Fair enough points re the origin of the word etc. I just thought it could be off putting for a lot of people. Perhaps I am way off the mark.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 08, 2013, 05:41:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 05:37:05 PM
Gerry is a major political figure in a party which boasts of its "workingclassness" - then he avails of private medicine a choice not available to those of us lucky enough to be even earning around the average industrial wage.
To all non SFers who have listened to years of SF holier than thou ,everybody is awful except us perfect people - that reeks of hypocrisy ( do as we say not as we do".

See, didn't I say it was yourself was the one upset about it!
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
ShinnersLittle wannabe sindo columnists very touchy today  ;D

I know - ye lads are trying to airbrush it away - Gerry never did that .... a bit like he was never in the ....... ;D

I'm afraid me and the Sindo are sworn enemies so I won't ever be writing for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 08, 2013, 09:14:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 04:51:16 PM
When you hear endless lectures from Mary Lou about how wrong everyone else is and how perfect SF are......... ::)
Ye're TDs ARE getting MY money and giving a load of it to SF.

And what would you rather them do with it??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 09, 2013, 12:33:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

Wages, Rossfan, wages. They are under no obligation to you on how they use their own wages. As I say, you're just going to have to suck it up I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 09, 2013, 08:02:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

hurry up rossie and get your household charge paid vlad varadkar says its a tax and just suck it up. you voted for these traitors lets see if your just as fond when theyve finished with your bank balance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on March 09, 2013, 09:13:24 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 09, 2013, 08:02:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

hurry up rossie and get your household charge paid vlad varadkar says its a tax and just suck it up. you voted for these traitors lets see if your just as fond when theyve finished with your bank balance.

I'm pretty sure it is a tax, and I'm pretty sure SF are implementing this in the form of rates in your jurisdiction.
But sure Martin and Gerry are already traitors to the crown I suppose
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 09, 2013, 04:09:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 09, 2013, 12:33:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

Wages, Rossfan, wages. They are under no obligation to you on how they use their own wages.

Why then do they insist telling me they "only take the avaerage industrial wage" from the money I pay them .... but for some reason they never give the same emphasis to the fact that they give it to their Party.
We're left with the feeling that they don't take their full salary from the taxpayer.
Anyway it's one more party for me to give no preference to in the next election  :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 09, 2013, 05:08:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 09, 2013, 04:09:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 09, 2013, 12:33:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

Wages, Rossfan, wages. They are under no obligation to you on how they use their own wages.

Why then do they insist telling me they "only take the avaerage industrial wage" from the money I pay them .... but for some reason they never give the same emphasis to the fact that they give it to their Party.
We're left with the feeling that they don't take their full salary from the taxpayer.
Anyway it's one more party for me to give no preference to in the next election  :-\

Your own blind ignorance isn't an excuse Rossfan. SF have never claimed to only take half the salary entitlement from the state. The dogs on the street know that what happens is SF reps all give half their wages to the party. It's SFs own internal way of making sure the candidates they attract are there for their beliefs and principles rather than for self gain and careerism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 09, 2013, 09:13:24 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 09, 2013, 08:02:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

hurry up rossie and get your household charge paid vlad varadkar says its a tax and just suck it up. you voted for these traitors lets see if your just as fond when theyve finished with your bank balance.

I'm pretty sure it is a tax, and I'm pretty sure SF are implementing this in the form of rates in your jurisdiction.
But sure Martin and Gerry are already traitors to the crown I suppose
yeah i'm pretty sure that sinn fein are only one of the parties in government in the north and i'm pretty sure that rates are implemented from downing street. sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
. sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.

Have you did ever go to skool?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:23:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
. sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.

Have you did ever go to skool?
how much? go on.. how much are they going to make you pay? will they take it out of your dole or wages or bank account? or maybe they'll take it off your kids when you die and leave it in your will.. but then there'll be interest at 4%..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on March 11, 2013, 09:26:41 PM
14 Days on BBC NI is worth watching for anyone with an interest in recent NI history.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:30:20 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on March 11, 2013, 09:26:41 PM
14 Days on BBC NI is worth watching for anyone with an interest in recent NI history.

as are you.. worth watching given your recent history ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on March 11, 2013, 09:35:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:30:20 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on March 11, 2013, 09:26:41 PM
14 Days on BBC NI is worth watching for anyone with an interest in recent NI history.

as are you.. worth watching given your recent history ::)

If you have an interest in TV can I point you in the direction of CBeebies, you may learn a little bit about punctuation and grammar. Get a grown up to use the remote control for you.  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:51:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:23:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
. sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.

Have you did ever go to skool?
how much? go on.. how much are they going to make you pay? will they take it out of your dole or wages or bank account? or maybe they'll take it off your kids when you die and leave it in your will.. but then there'll be interest at 4%..

WTF ???? Pay for school is it?
I finished my education years ago but it seems you haven't started yet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:51:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:23:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
. sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.

Have you did ever go to skool?
how much? go on.. how much are they going to make you pay? will they take it out of your dole or wages or bank account? or maybe they'll take it off your kids when you die and leave it in your will.. but then there'll be interest at 4%..

WTF ???? Pay for school is it?
I finished my education years ago but it seems you haven't started yet.
you know "fine" well to what i am refering. answer the question how much are fine gael going to charge you to live in your home? when phil hogan is pissing your money away on st.patricks day. how much?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:34:35 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 09, 2013, 09:13:24 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 09, 2013, 08:02:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

hurry up rossie and get your household charge paid vlad varadkar says its a tax and just suck it up. you voted for these traitors lets see if your just as fond when theyve finished with your bank balance.

I'm pretty sure it is a tax, and I'm pretty sure SF are implementing this in the form of rates in your jurisdiction.
But sure Martin and Gerry are already traitors to the crown I suppose
yeah i'm pretty sure that sinn fein are only one of the parties in government in the north and i'm pretty sure that rates are implemented from downing street.
And not for the first time, you'd be totally wrong.

Your rates bill is made up of the District rate, set by individual councils, and the Regional rate, set by the Department of Finance & Personnel.

Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.
Their best isn't very good. Strabane Council, where SF has 8 out of the 16 seats, had the biggest rates increase in NI this year.
http://www.strabaneweekly.co.uk/articles/news/32454/strabane-rates-hike-biggest-percentage-increase-in-province/


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 12, 2013, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:51:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:23:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
. sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.

Have you did ever go to skool?
how much? go on.. how much are they going to make you pay? will they take it out of your dole or wages or bank account? or maybe they'll take it off your kids when you die and leave it in your will.. but then there'll be interest at 4%..

WTF ???? Pay for school is it?
I finished my education years ago but it seems you haven't started yet.
you know "fine" well to what i am refering. answer the question how much are fine gael going to charge you to live in your home? when phil hogan is pissing your money away on st.patricks day. how much?

Normally I don't like Ministers going on these trips, bar the Taoiseach, Tainiste or President, but on St. Patrick's Day it is an opportunity for us Irish to use our soft power to access the people of influence in other countries and the minds of people around the world. In fact I think Ireland should try harder to claim back Halloween/Samhain from the Yanks, we need to us soft power because we don't have fighter jets or aircraft carriers like some others.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 12, 2013, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:51:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:23:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2013, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
. sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.

Have you did ever go to skool?
how much? go on.. how much are they going to make you pay? will they take it out of your dole or wages or bank account? or maybe they'll take it off your kids when you die and leave it in your will.. but then there'll be interest at 4%..

WTF ???? Pay for school is it?
I finished my education years ago but it seems you haven't started yet.
you know "fine" well to what i am refering. answer the question how much are fine gael going to charge you to live in your home? when phil hogan is pissing your money away on st.patricks day. how much?

Normally I don't like Ministers going on these trips, bar the Taoiseach, Tainiste or President, but on St. Patrick's Day it is an opportunity for us Irish to use our soft power to access the people of influence in other countries and the minds of people around the world. In fact I think Ireland should try harder to claim back Halloween/Samhain from the Yanks, we need to us soft power because we don't have fighter jets or aircraft carriers like some others.
I don't think you need to labour the point - there'll be a few Shinners on a trans-atlantic jolly too, no doubt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 12, 2013, 02:13:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:59:08 PM

Quote from: how much are fine gael going to charge you to live in your home?/quote]

An awful lot less than SF are charging people in the 6 Cos you Partitionist lúlá.
And they'll give me 3 times more Social Welfare than your lot will gove you :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: shawshank on March 12, 2013, 04:03:57 PM
14 days, a brilliant programme, Fr Alec Reid a total contrast to the stories we have had recently about priests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01r7v48/14_Days/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01r7v48/14_Days/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on March 12, 2013, 05:44:10 PM
Quote from: shawshank on March 12, 2013, 04:03:57 PM
14 days, a brilliant programme, Fr Alec Reid a total contrast to the stories we have had recently about priests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01r7v48/14_Days/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01r7v48/14_Days/)

Watched it lastnight. Mad stuff. I can remember my Da and his brother were in Belfast the day Stone went mad at the Funeral. We heard what had happened so were waiting anxiously for their return. Home safely that night thank God.

Mad times.

Fr Reid...A modern day saint.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 08:28:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 12, 2013, 02:13:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:59:08 PM

Quote from: how much are fine gael going to charge you to live in your home?/quote]

An awful lot less than SF are charging people in the 6 Cos you Partitionist lúlá.
And they'll give me 3 times more Social Welfare than your lot will gove you :P
suck it up thats the cost of being a sheep
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 12, 2013, 08:33:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 08:28:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 12, 2013, 02:13:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:59:08 PM

Quote from: how much are fine gael going to charge you to live in your home?/quote]

An awful lot less than SF are charging people in the 6 Cos you Partitionist lúlá.
And they'll give me 3 times more Social Welfare than your lot will gove you :P
suck it up thats the cost of being a sheep

Amazing coming from the a Shinner.

Don't the Shinners love the hardship of the ONLY Republic in Ireland. "Suck it up" sums them right up, enemies of the Republic, servants of the Crown. Not wanted in OUR state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:34:35 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 09, 2013, 09:13:24 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 09, 2013, 08:02:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

hurry up rossie and get your household charge paid vlad varadkar says its a tax and just suck it up. you voted for these traitors lets see if your just as fond when theyve finished with your bank balance.

I'm pretty sure it is a tax, and I'm pretty sure SF are implementing this in the form of rates in your jurisdiction.
But sure Martin and Gerry are already traitors to the crown I suppose
yeah i'm pretty sure that sinn fein are only one of the parties in government in the north and i'm pretty sure that rates are implemented from downing street.
And not for the first time, you'd be totally wrong.

Your rates bill is made up of the District rate, set by individual councils, and the Regional rate, set by the Department of Finance & Personnel.

Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.
Their best isn't very good. Strabane Council, where SF has 8 out of the 16 seats, had the biggest rates increase in NI this year.
http://www.strabaneweekly.co.uk/articles/news/32454/strabane-rates-hike-biggest-percentage-increase-in-province/
yes thats right. local councils can only try to limit increases in their part of the rates. its a bill no one likes paying. i myself prefer the system in the 26 where you used to pay for the services you use. of course the sheep will now have to pay for the services and pay rates as well. thanks fianna gael thanks sheep
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 08:44:43 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 12, 2013, 08:33:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 08:28:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 12, 2013, 02:13:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 09:59:08 PM

Quote from: how much are fine gael going to charge you to live in your home?/quote]

An awful lot less than SF are charging people in the 6 Cos you Partitionist lúlá.
And they'll give me 3 times more Social Welfare than your lot will gove you :P
suck it up thats the cost of being a sheep

Amazing coming from the a Shinner.

Don't the Shinners love the hardship of the ONLY Republic in Ireland. "Suck it up" sums them right up, enemies of the Republic, servants of the Crown. Not wanted in OUR state.
i know lets have a big party and invite all our relations back to old eire and fleece them.. sure thats what you do with sheep baahh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 09:01:59 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:34:35 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 09, 2013, 09:13:24 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 09, 2013, 08:02:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

hurry up rossie and get your household charge paid vlad varadkar says its a tax and just suck it up. you voted for these traitors lets see if your just as fond when theyve finished with your bank balance.

I'm pretty sure it is a tax, and I'm pretty sure SF are implementing this in the form of rates in your jurisdiction.
But sure Martin and Gerry are already traitors to the crown I suppose
yeah i'm pretty sure that sinn fein are only one of the parties in government in the north and i'm pretty sure that rates are implemented from downing street.
And not for the first time, you'd be totally wrong.

Your rates bill is made up of the District rate, set by individual councils, and the Regional rate, set by the Department of Finance & Personnel.

Quote from: lawnseed on March 11, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
sinn  fein have did their best as have the rest of the parties at stormont to minimise the local part of the rates.
Their best isn't very good. Strabane Council, where SF has 8 out of the 16 seats, had the biggest rates increase in NI this year.
http://www.strabaneweekly.co.uk/articles/news/32454/strabane-rates-hike-biggest-percentage-increase-in-province/
yes thats right. local councils can only try to limit increases in their part of the rates. its a bill no one likes paying. i myself prefer the system in the 26 where you used to pay for the services you use. of course the sheep will now have to pay for the services and pay rates as well. thanks fianna gael thanks sheep
The councils can maintain or even reduce the local rate - it's all about balancing the books. The point is that this particular Council, where nothing can pass without SF, has hiked the local rate more than any of the other councils.

You said SF "did their best" to minimise the local rate, now you're agreeing that what I say is right. Which is it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 12, 2013, 09:20:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 08:34:13 PM
yes thats right. local councils can only try to limit increases in their part of the rates. its a bill no one likes paying. i myself prefer the system in the 26 where you used to pay for the services you use. of course the sheep will now have to pay for the services and pay rates as well. thanks fianna gael thanks sheep

Lawnseed why can't you just be friends with the sheep stealers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_rKiG5dE4&list=PLDnA7akzIdcxpcvEm7JrM8yMIDGdkYizu&index=32 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_rKiG5dE4&list=PLDnA7akzIdcxpcvEm7JrM8yMIDGdkYizu&index=32)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:32:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 12, 2013, 09:20:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 08:34:13 PM
yes thats right. local councils can only try to limit increases in their part of the rates. its a bill no one likes paying. i myself prefer the system in the 26 where you used to pay for the services you use. of course the sheep will now have to pay for the services and pay rates as well. thanks fianna gael thanks sheep

Lawnseed why can't you just be friends with the sheep stealers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_rKiG5dE4&list=PLDnA7akzIdcxpcvEm7JrM8yMIDGdkYizu&index=32 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_rKiG5dE4&list=PLDnA7akzIdcxpcvEm7JrM8yMIDGdkYizu&index=32)

;D ;D ;D

fine gael? or fianna fail? jeez i just cant decide emmm.. emmm.   baaaah! i know i'll vote labour moooh!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on March 12, 2013, 09:42:29 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:32:03 PM
fine gael? or fianna fail? jeez i just cant decide emmm.. emmm.   baaaah! i know i'll vote labour moooh!!

This may come as a shock to you, but you can only vote for pro-union parties.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:32:44 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on March 12, 2013, 09:42:29 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:32:03 PM
fine gael? or fianna fail? jeez i just cant decide emmm.. emmm.   baaaah! i know i'll vote labour moooh!!

This may come as a shock to you, but you can only vote for pro-union parties.  ;D
i thought you were banned.. mods!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 14, 2013, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 09, 2013, 05:08:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 09, 2013, 04:09:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 09, 2013, 12:33:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Give the part over and above the Industrial wage back to the Taxpayer .

Or give it to me of course

Wages, Rossfan, wages. They are under no obligation to you on how they use their own wages.

Why then do they insist telling me they "only take the avaerage industrial wage" from the money I pay them .... but for some reason they never give the same emphasis to the fact that they give it to their Party.
We're left with the feeling that they don't take their full salary from the taxpayer.
Anyway it's one more party for me to give no preference to in the next election  :-\

Your own blind ignorance isn't an excuse Rossfan. SF have never claimed to only take half the salary entitlement from the state. The dogs on the street know that what happens is SF reps all give half their wages to the party. It's SFs own internal way of making sure the candidates they attract are there for their beliefs and principles rather than for self gain and careerism.
Which is why we end up with monkeys for MLA's!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 08:48:23 PM
john o dowd just keeps doing good stuff. as minister hes granted the lowest workers in the eduacation boards 250quid each. all perfectly above board.. no brownies. also john can handle himself nicely a definate dark horse what ever time gerry realises he done all he can and its time for the slippers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:39:49 PM
the latest employment figures and economic growth figures show that Britain has all but abandoned the 6 counties. more like last one out turn out the lights than maggie's as British as finchley. so now what? the place is in limbo half the population spend their days in their pajamas living on handouts the other half either smuggle diesel and fags or they work in the civil service or a call centre. less than 100 years from partition and the brits have stripped the place from world economic industrial hub to economic basketcase. theres nothing left to take although the prods are useful for the army they're dying to get killed for their fleg in someone elses war somewhere and the british public dont kick up if a few of them get killed. so this is where we are 'a cross between a minor itch and cannon fodder' thats our wee country for yeh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 15, 2013, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:39:49 PM
the latest employment figures and economic growth figures show that Britain has all but abandoned the 6 counties. more like last one out turn out the lights than maggie's as British as finchley. so now what? the place is in limbo half the population spend their days in their pajamas living on handouts the other half either smuggle diesel and fags or they work in the civil service or a call centre. less than 100 years from partition and the brits have stripped the place from world economic industrial hub to economic basketcase. theres nothing left to take although the prods are useful for the army they're dying to get killed for their fleg in someone elses war somewhere and the british public dont kick up if a few of them get killed. so this is where we are 'a cross between a minor itch and cannon fodder' thats our wee country for yeh

In fairness, the British never really gave a toss about Ireland, pre or post partition so I don't know why you think it's a big surprise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:59:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 15, 2013, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:39:49 PM
the latest employment figures and economic growth figures show that Britain has all but abandoned the 6 counties. more like last one out turn out the lights than maggie's as British as finchley. so now what? the place is in limbo half the population spend their days in their pajamas living on handouts the other half either smuggle diesel and fags or they work in the civil service or a call centre. less than 100 years from partition and the brits have stripped the place from world economic industrial hub to economic basketcase. theres nothing left to take, although the prods are useful for the army. they're dying to get killed for their fleg in someone elses war somewhere... and the british public dont kick up if a few of them get killed. so this is where we are 'a cross between a minor itch and cannon fodder' thats our wee country for yeh

In fairness, the British never really gave a toss about Ireland, pre or post partition so I don't know why you think it's a big surprise.
i'm a shinner i'm not surprised
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 23, 2013, 11:10:12 PM
@rtenews: The latest Sunday Business Post/Red C poll shows Govt support is stable: FG 28 (nc), Lab 13 (+1), FF 24 (-2), SF 14 (-2), Ind 21 (+3).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on March 25, 2013, 10:21:03 PM
A niece of Newry and Armagh MP Conor Murphy has been jailed today for her part in a €23m film fraud.

An Irish actress was jailed today along with four other fraudsters who pretended to be making a Hollywood blockbuster as part of a £2.8m (€3.3m) VAT and film tax credits scam.

Inspectors were told that A-listers from Hollywood would be starring in a £19.6m (€23m) production that would be shot in the UK.

But the film, 'Landscape Of Lives', was never made and the only footage shot was seven minutes of "completely unusable quality" filmed in a flat and costing just £5,000 (€5,860).

Co Down actress and producer Aoife Madden (aged 31) who is originally from Newry but now has an address at Maclise Road, west London, was said to have submitted a "pack of lies" to inspectors about the project.

She was sentenced to four years and eight months at Southwark Crown Court in central London.

Co-accused Bashar Al-Issa (aged 34) a former Iraqi national who is now British, of Rodney Court, Maida Vale, London, described as the orchestrator of the fraud, was jailed for six-and-a-half years by Judge Juliet May.

Two other defendants in the scam – Tariq Hassan (aged 52) a Pakistani national, of Willingale Road, Loughton, Essex, and Osama Al Baghdady (aged 51) an Iraqi national of Lowther Road, Crumpsall, Manchester, received four-year jail sentences.

A fifth defendant, architect Ian Sherwood (aged 53) of Esher Drive, Sale, Manchester, who allowed his offices to be used for the fraud, was sentenced to three-and-a-half years in jail.

Judge May said the fraud had been based on an "entirely bogus film project".

All five defendants were also disqualified from holding company directorships - Al-Issa for 10 years; Madden for eight years, and Hassan, Al-Baghdady and Sherwood for five years.

The court heard that Madden, said by the prosecution as having played an important organisational role in the fraud, pleaded guilty at the start of the trial to two charges of conspiracy to cheat the public revenue between April 2010 and April 2011 related to VAT repayments and film tax credits.

Al-Issa was convicted on both charges after a trial. Hassan was convicted of one charge – conspiracy to cheat the revenue in relation to film tax credits.

Al Baghdady and Sherwood were convicted of one charge of conspiracy to cheat the revenue in relation to VAT repayments.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 25, 2013, 10:41:51 PM
I see the Agriculture Minister has made an appearance. Apparently she has asked the Secretary of State for a helicopter from the MoD to bring supplies to those stranded by the snow. A new 'Brits in' policy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2013, 10:48:13 PM
QuoteA niece of Newry and Armagh MP Conor Murphy has been jailed today for her part in a €23m film fraud.

I'm not a noted defender of SF, but I fail to see how the actions of relatives of party members is relevant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 26, 2013, 01:27:41 PM
Is this all we have to argue about now ?

Sinn Fein has criticised the return of the world famous Red Arrows air display team to Northern Ireland.



Down District Council has announced the Red Arrows will be one of the key attractions of its summer tourist programme.

When the aerial daredevils first appeared in Newcastle four years ago, it attracted a crowd of more than 100,000 to the Co Down coast.

But Sinn Fein has shot down the plans to throw out the red carpet to the display team as part of a Festival of Flight festival on August 10.

Down councillor Eamonn Mac Con Midhe said: "The Red Arrows are using Down District to get publicity for the British Army.

"Let them tell the story about what they are doing in Afghanistan. When they came to Down District the last time, we were told these RAF pilots were all just home from Afghanistan.

"They are not doing festivals of flight in Afghanistan. Let them tell people what they are really doing in the war in Afghanistan."

Mr Mac Con Midhe claimed the return of the Arrows has yet to be discussed by the council and the first he was aware of it was a press announcement from the council.

However, Alliance councillor Patrick Clarke said it would be "silly" for Sinn Fein to oppose the return of the Red Arrows.

"The crowds which the Red Arrows attracted to Newcastle two years ago were phenomenal and the spectacular air displays were breathtaking and could be seen for miles along the coast," he said.

"With the Red Arrows display, the Summer Festival of Flight will be another major success for Newcastle and Down District.

"It is becoming one of Northern Ireland's major summer festivals."

When they first flew to the district in 2010, the Arrows helped attract more than 100,000 visitors to Newcastle as part of the Harry Ferguson festival, celebrating the 100th anniversary of the first powered flight in Ireland in the resort.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on March 26, 2013, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2013, 01:27:41 PM
Is this all we have to argue about now ?

Sinn Fein has criticised the return of the world famous Red Arrows air display team to Northern Ireland.

Must be a different Sinn Fein who asked for an RAF helicopter to deliver aid to those cut off by the recent snow.

http://www.u.tv/News/MOD-helicopter-to-deliver-care-packages/5c9f64d2-8dc6-4702-8655-97b02b414c2d
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on March 26, 2013, 03:00:20 PM
Or maybe its a different S F from the one who happily posed with Obama, the man responsible for murdering innocent children on a weekly basis in Afghanistan?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 26, 2013, 03:27:48 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 26, 2013, 03:00:20 PM
Or maybe its a different S F from the one who happily posed with Obama, the man responsible for murdering innocent children on a weekly basis in Afghanistan?

No wonder I'm confused.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on March 26, 2013, 04:40:53 PM
Is this Sinn Fein's vision of an Ireland of sequels, after the first film was never made?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 26, 2013, 06:12:59 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2013, 01:27:41 PM
Is this all we have to argue about now ?

Sinn Fein has criticised the return of the world famous Red Arrows air display team to Northern Ireland.
If i'm not mistaken, this is the same Councillor that was waving a tricolour at last year's St Patrick's Day parade - showing it the same respect as the loyalist protesters show their flag.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 26, 2013, 07:25:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2013, 06:12:59 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2013, 01:27:41 PM
Is this all we have to argue about now ?

Sinn Fein has criticised the return of the world famous Red Arrows air display team to Northern Ireland.
If i'm not mistaken, this is the same Councillor that was waving a tricolour at last year's St Patrick's Day parade - showing it the same respect as the loyalist protesters show their flag.

So everyone around the country and around the world for that matter who wave the tricolour on St.Patricks day you equate with the loyalist flag protesters :o,catch a grip.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 26, 2013, 07:39:47 PM
Or maybe it's the same SF most of whose leaders fought the British both inside and outside the jails for over 30 years,or the same SF who have supported the Palestinian people both in the past and in the present,just a few weeks ago Pat Sheehan a former hunger striker was there in support of those on hunger strike in Palestine.The same SF who had members involved in the efforts to break the blockade of Gaza.The same SF who at every opportunity let it be known about the injustices inflicted on the Palestinian people whether that is to Obama,Cameron,or the Israeli ambassador.Everyone has their part to play as Sands said but some like to talk all the time while others can walk the walk as well.I understand those who have fallen out of love for the Shinners but please at least be honest about what they do sometimes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 26, 2013, 07:42:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 26, 2013, 07:25:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2013, 06:12:59 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2013, 01:27:41 PM
Is this all we have to argue about now ?

Sinn Fein has criticised the return of the world famous Red Arrows air display team to Northern Ireland.
If i'm not mistaken, this is the same Councillor that was waving a tricolour at last year's St Patrick's Day parade - showing it the same respect as the loyalist protesters show their flag.

So everyone around the country and around the world for that matter who wave the tricolour on St.Patricks day you equate with the loyalist flag protesters :o,catch a grip.
No, not everyone everywhere. Down Council had a 25-year policy of flying the Cross of St Patrick, with the aim of the parade being a cross community event. This Councillor went on a solo run last year, for no apparent reason. The result was bad feeling and a number of schools pulling out of the parade. What exactly did it achieve? What will his current objections achieve?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 26, 2013, 07:50:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2013, 07:42:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 26, 2013, 07:25:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2013, 06:12:59 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2013, 01:27:41 PM
Is this all we have to argue about now ?

Sinn Fein has criticised the return of the world famous Red Arrows air display team to Northern Ireland.
If i'm not mistaken, this is the same Councillor that was waving a tricolour at last year's St Patrick's Day parade - showing it the same respect as the loyalist protesters show their flag.

So everyone around the country and around the world for that matter who wave the tricolour on St.Patricks day you equate with the loyalist flag protesters :o,catch a grip.
No, not everyone everywhere. Down Council had a 25-year policy of flying the Cross of St Patrick, with the aim of the parade being a cross community event. This Councillor went on a solo run last year, for no apparent reason. The result was bad feeling and a number of schools pulling out of the parade. What exactly did it achieve? What will his current objections achieve?

Not saying it will achieve anything but irrespective of what Down council pass I still believe he has a right to fly his National flag on St.Patricks day the same as thousands of others do all around the rest of Ireland and abroad.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 26, 2013, 08:34:34 PM
Pats travels to Palestine will no doubt come as great comfort to the children of West Belfast, the constituency he is an MLA for, who suffer from the second highest levels of child poverty in the UK. Brits fault no doubt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 26, 2013, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 26, 2013, 08:34:34 PM
Pats travels to Palestine will no doubt come as great comfort to the children of West Belfast, the constituency he is an MLA for, who suffer from the second highest levels of child poverty in the UK. Brits fault no doubt.

Sure I know you and your chums in Ardoyne would rather blame Irishmen than the Brits anyway so there you go.Keep reading the Gospel according to Martin Og or have you give him the elbow.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 26, 2013, 10:56:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 26, 2013, 07:50:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2013, 07:42:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 26, 2013, 07:25:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2013, 06:12:59 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2013, 01:27:41 PM
Is this all we have to argue about now ?

Sinn Fein has criticised the return of the world famous Red Arrows air display team to Northern Ireland.
If i'm not mistaken, this is the same Councillor that was waving a tricolour at last year's St Patrick's Day parade - showing it the same respect as the loyalist protesters show their flag.

So everyone around the country and around the world for that matter who wave the tricolour on St.Patricks day you equate with the loyalist flag protesters :o,catch a grip.
No, not everyone everywhere. Down Council had a 25-year policy of flying the Cross of St Patrick, with the aim of the parade being a cross community event. This Councillor went on a solo run last year, for no apparent reason. The result was bad feeling and a number of schools pulling out of the parade. What exactly did it achieve? What will his current objections achieve?

Not saying it will achieve anything but irrespective of what Down council pass I still believe he has a right to fly his National flag on St.Patricks day the same as thousands of others do all around the rest of Ireland and abroad.
Yes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
QuoteYes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?

An Irish person celebrating St Patrick's day as people do in Melbourne, New York, Madrid and Moscow has nothing whatsoever to do with a crowd of sectarian bigots blocking roads.

This is like Orange Order = GAA, a fallacious attempt to equate two things that are not similar.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 27, 2013, 01:54:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
QuoteYes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?

An Irish person celebrating St Patrick's day as people do in Melbourne, New York, Madrid and Moscow has nothing whatsoever to do with a crowd of sectarian bigots blocking roads.

This is like Orange Order = GAA, a fallacious attempt to equate two things that are not similar.

I noticed this Paddy's Day here in Liverpool, every single person I saw with a tricolour draped over them and I also heard speak were from the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 27, 2013, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
QuoteYes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?

An Irish person celebrating St Patrick's day as people do in Melbourne, New York, Madrid and Moscow has nothing whatsoever to do with a crowd of sectarian bigots blocking roads.

This is like Orange Order = GAA, a fallacious attempt to equate two things that are not similar.
Not at all. Context is everything. Comparisons with New York or Moscow are disingenuous. Down Council had an agreement that had been maintained for many years. One Councillor decided his wishes were more important.

Take the example of a new housing development in NI, mixed with both Catholics and Protestants. There's an agreement not to fly flags. Now there's nothing to actually stop anyone flying a flag, apart from this understanding. Then one of the residents decides to put up a Union flag. It's his right. People do it in housing developments in loads of places. But just because it's his right, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. What is it likely to do for relations with his neighbours?

In terms of respect for the flag, there's a direct reference to be made to the loyalist fleg protesters. The tricolour was intended to symbolise the Catholics and Protestants, with white in the middle - peace. If someone on the 'green' side of the fence flying that flag, knowing full well that it's antagonising those on the 'orange' side of the fence, then in my opinion, that's disrespecting the flag.

But I don't expect you or glens abu to agree.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 11:38:26 PM
QuoteBut I don't expect you or glens abu to agree.

Are the Red Arrows unjustified in coming to Downpatrick because this guy takes offence?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on March 28, 2013, 06:57:38 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 27, 2013, 01:54:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
QuoteYes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?

An Irish person celebrating St Patrick's day as people do in Melbourne, New York, Madrid and Moscow has nothing whatsoever to do with a crowd of sectarian bigots blocking roads.

This is like Orange Order = GAA, a fallacious attempt to equate two things that are not similar.

I noticed this Paddy's Day here in Liverpool, every single person I saw with a tricolour draped over them and I also heard speak were from the North.

All of them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 07:40:07 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on March 28, 2013, 06:57:38 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 27, 2013, 01:54:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
QuoteYes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?

An Irish person celebrating St Patrick's day as people do in Melbourne, New York, Madrid and Moscow has nothing whatsoever to do with a crowd of sectarian bigots blocking roads.

This is like Orange Order = GAA, a fallacious attempt to equate two things that are not similar.

I noticed this Paddy's Day here in Liverpool, every single person I saw with a tricolour draped over them and I also heard speak were from the North.

All of them?

Yes 100% of those I heard speak and had a tricolour draped over them had 6 county accents. I cannot comment on those I did not hear speak.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 28, 2013, 08:34:21 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 27, 2013, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
QuoteYes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?

An Irish person celebrating St Patrick's day as people do in Melbourne, New York, Madrid and Moscow has nothing whatsoever to do with a crowd of sectarian bigots blocking roads.

This is like Orange Order = GAA, a fallacious attempt to equate two things that are not similar.
Not at all. Context is everything. Comparisons with New York or Moscow are disingenuous. Down Council had an agreement that had been maintained for many years. One Councillor decided his wishes were more important.

Take the example of a new housing development in NI, mixed with both Catholics and Protestants. There's an agreement not to fly flags. Now there's nothing to actually stop anyone flying a flag, apart from this understanding. Then one of the residents decides to put up a Union flag. It's his right. People do it in housing developments in loads of places. But just because it's his right, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. What is it likely to do for relations with his neighbours?

In terms of respect for the flag, there's a direct reference to be made to the loyalist fleg protesters. The tricolour was intended to symbolise the Catholics and Protestants, with white in the middle - peace. If someone on the 'green' side of the fence flying that flag, knowing full well that it's antagonising those on the 'orange' side of the fence, then in my opinion, that's disrespecting the flag.

ButI don't expect you or glens abu to agree.

100% think if I was to agree with all of this I would join the stoops.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on March 28, 2013, 09:45:04 AM
Mayogodhelpus. Please define a 6 County accent
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on March 28, 2013, 09:55:36 AM
Quote from: Antrim Coaster on March 28, 2013, 09:45:04 AM
Mayogodhelpus. Please define a 6 County accent

Yes quite, did they use the word sit-yee-ashun??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on March 28, 2013, 10:18:49 AM
Quote from: Antrim Coaster on March 28, 2013, 09:45:04 AM
Mayogodhelpus. Please define a 6 County accent

Listen to Nathan Carter. There you have it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Declan on March 28, 2013, 10:42:04 AM
Latest from the bye election

10% boxes open - mainly from south. FG 42%, FF 31%, SF 10%, Gilroy 6%,Lab 4%

FG to win it, good result for FF, seat here at next election, SF could be doing better, not bad for DDI and awful for Labour who could come in 5th.

My fellow constituents (well those 38% who bothered to vote) have really rattled the cages of the establishment  >:( >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2013, 11:40:41 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 07:40:07 AM
Yes 100% of those I heard speak and had a tricolour draped over them had 6 county accents.
Would you know the difference between a Lifford and a Strabane accent y'eejit  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 28, 2013, 12:34:36 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 07:40:07 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on March 28, 2013, 06:57:38 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 27, 2013, 01:54:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
QuoteYes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?

An Irish person celebrating St Patrick's day as people do in Melbourne, New York, Madrid and Moscow has nothing whatsoever to do with a crowd of sectarian bigots blocking roads.

This is like Orange Order = GAA, a fallacious attempt to equate two things that are not similar.

I noticed this Paddy's Day here in Liverpool, every single person I saw with a tricolour draped over them and I also heard speak were from the North.

All of them?

Yes 100% of those I heard speak and had a tricolour draped over them had 6 county accents. I cannot comment on those I did not hear speak.
Perhaps that is because they are denied their nationality at home and take comfort in being able to display their flag. And what the f**k is a 6 county accent? People from Cross have Louth aceents, Cavan and Monaghan could well be in Fermanagh or Armagh as for Donegal and Derry..... Not a great fan myself of wrapping the flag around me but what right have you to denigrate those that do?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 28, 2013, 12:40:32 PM
In relation to SF, what Conor Murphy's niece does is no reelection on him or SF. Indeed if you read the facts of the case she in fact was guilty of being naive and trusting the wrong people but again not Conor's fault. Where SF do need to buck up ideas is on the whole managing of the economy, they need to take hard decisions and not populist decisions. As for unity I've give my opinion on that before.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 02:13:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 28, 2013, 12:34:36 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 07:40:07 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on March 28, 2013, 06:57:38 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 27, 2013, 01:54:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
QuoteYes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?

An Irish person celebrating St Patrick's day as people do in Melbourne, New York, Madrid and Moscow has nothing whatsoever to do with a crowd of sectarian bigots blocking roads.

This is like Orange Order = GAA, a fallacious attempt to equate two things that are not similar.

I noticed this Paddy's Day here in Liverpool, every single person I saw with a tricolour draped over them and I also heard speak were from the North.

All of them?

Yes 100% of those I heard speak and had a tricolour draped over them had 6 county accents. I cannot comment on those I did not hear speak.
Perhaps that is because they are denied their nationality at home and take comfort in being able to display their flag. And what the f**k is a 6 county accent? People from Cross have Louth aceents, Cavan and Monaghan could well be in Fermanagh or Armagh as for Donegal and Derry..... Not a great fan myself of wrapping the flag around me but what right have you to denigrate those that do?

I did not say accent, I said accents. Mostly East of the Bann folk, hard not miss those harsh tones. Lots of Tyrone accents too. I have lots of friends from East of the Bann and Tyrone so I am pretty sure what their accents sound like. The other thing that disgusts me is the way 6 county folk and a few others from along the border ruin the Fields of Athenry by adding the words "SF & "IRA".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 02:17:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2013, 11:40:41 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 07:40:07 AM
Yes 100% of those I heard speak and had a tricolour draped over them had 6 county accents.
Would you know the difference between a Lifford and a Strabane accent y'eejit  ;D

Did I say they were from Lifford or Strabane?  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 11:38:26 PM
QuoteBut I don't expect you or glens abu to agree.

Are the Red Arrows unjustified in coming to Downpatrick because this guy takes offence?

They used to get a huge turnout in Galway City. I remember a Mayo V Galway match a few years ago, after the match a huge majority of 34,000 GAA fans flowed down the hill from Pearse Stadium to the seafront in Salthill to join the 100,000 already there to watch RAF redarrows, Dutch airforce, Irish Air Corps, USAF, Lufwaffe and others and Irish Navy ships in the bay. The RAF & Lufwaffe were the most popular from the crowds reactions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 28, 2013, 08:16:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 11:38:26 PM
QuoteBut I don't expect you or glens abu to agree.

Are the Red Arrows unjustified in coming to Downpatrick because this guy takes offence?
I wouldn't let one person's wishes dictate events.

Anyway, given that his party colleague invited an MoD Chinook back into the country this week, i'm not sure I understand the problem with the red arrows.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 28, 2013, 10:03:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2013, 11:40:41 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 07:40:07 AM
Yes 100% of those I heard speak and had a tricolour draped over them had 6 county accents.
Would you know the difference between a Lifford and a Strabane accent y'eejit  ;D

:D
I know I can't differentiate between Donegal and Derry. Fair dues to mghu for managing it...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 29, 2013, 10:21:42 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 02:13:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 28, 2013, 12:34:36 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 28, 2013, 07:40:07 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on March 28, 2013, 06:57:38 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 27, 2013, 01:54:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
QuoteYes, he has every right. Forget sensible politics and good community relations - he got to wave a flag. Sound familiar?

An Irish person celebrating St Patrick's day as people do in Melbourne, New York, Madrid and Moscow has nothing whatsoever to do with a crowd of sectarian bigots blocking roads.

This is like Orange Order = GAA, a fallacious attempt to equate two things that are not similar.

I noticed this Paddy's Day here in Liverpool, every single person I saw with a tricolour draped over them and I also heard speak were from the North.

All of them?

Yes 100% of those I heard speak and had a tricolour draped over them had 6 county accents. I cannot comment on those I did not hear speak.
Perhaps that is because they are denied their nationality at home and take comfort in being able to display their flag. And what the f**k is a 6 county accent? People from Cross have Louth aceents, Cavan and Monaghan could well be in Fermanagh or Armagh as for Donegal and Derry..... Not a great fan myself of wrapping the flag around me but what right have you to denigrate those that do?

I did not say accent, I said accents. Mostly East of the Bann folk, hard not miss those harsh tones. Lots of Tyrone accents too. I have lots of friends from East of the Bann and Tyrone so I am pretty sure what their accents sound like. The other thing that disgusts me is the way 6 county folk and a few others from along the border ruin the Fields of Athenry by adding the words "SF & "IRA".
For some one who has railed in the past at being called a free stater you are handy with the oul 6 county title.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 29, 2013, 01:37:03 PM
Sensible boy Paul Frew - he has little to be at.

RAF Chinook helicopters which had been drafted in to help with food drops have been stood down by the Department of Agriculture.

The Ministry of Defence told the BBC the helicopter would no longer be making drops but is still on standby if required.

The helicopter travelled from its base in Hampshire on Tuesday.

DUP Agriculture spokesman Paul Frew has criticised Agriculture Minister Michelle O'Neill for her decision to stop using the helicopters.

The helicopter made food drops to thousands of animals stranded, mostly in the Glens of Antrim, which has been one of the areas worst affected by the snow.

A member of staff from the Department of Agriculture travelled with the Chinook crew to tell them exactly where to drop the feed.

Paul Frew MLA said: "This decision is one that ranks of stupidity and is only being made to satisfy republican ideology and to protect Sinn Fein's green clouded myth, that they sell their electorate, that somehow they are not part of the UK .

"She has betrayed the very people she is supposed to protect and represent , the farming community, at a time when they needed the department the most.

"How dare they withdraw much needed air support when we are still in the grip of this crisis, when so many are still stranded, when so many are still in despair trying to locate their livestock or more importantly trying to feed the livestock that is still alive.

"This is a fundamental error of judgement by the DARD Minister and it's very clear she is either ignoring the plight of the farmer or she has misjudged the scale of this crisis."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 29, 2013, 03:00:26 PM
seen the red arrows last yr at portrush, dont see what the problem is, royal marine commando storming the beach at the port, oh the offense. went to the military show at the port last summer too, disappointing that the spitfire and lancaster bomber couldnt come that sunday at the airshow. I was always into planes when i was young so i go to these shows when i can.Am irish, not a  die hard and can go to events like these and not be offended. Problem up here is people on both sides go out of their way to be offended. If councillors running the councils and country took as big a interest in planning issues, rates, employment, helping the eldery, health service, we wouldnt be seen as the backward bunch of bible thumping never on a  sunday, gay bashing politicians on i side and the am more of a Irishman than u Southerners, united ireland even if we all unemployed,its our way or the highway republican politicians on the other, plus the inbetweeners.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 29, 2013, 03:17:20 PM
That's just about bang on the money.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 29, 2013, 03:42:41 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 29, 2013, 03:00:26 PM
seen the red arrows last yr at portrush, dont see what the problem is, royal marine commando storming the beach at the port, oh the offense. went to the military show at the port last summer too, disappointing that the spitfire and lancaster bomber couldnt come that sunday at the airshow. I was always into planes when i was young so i go to these shows when i can.Am irish, not a  die hard and can go to events like these and not be offended. Problem up here is people on both sides go out of their way to be offended. If councillors running the councils and country took as big a interest in planning issues, rates, employment, helping the eldery, health service, we wouldnt be seen as the backward bunch of bible thumping never on a  sunday, gay bashing politicians on i side and the am more of a Irishman than u Southerners, united ireland even if we all unemployed,its our way or the highway republican politicians on the other, plus the inbetweeners.

How are you more Irish than Munster people?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 29, 2013, 03:45:47 PM
oh am not saying me, but some people up here would have the impression they are more Irish than people down south, a bit like the opposite of the  flag protesters on the other side. They get offended by things not Irish, where down south they wouldnt really be worried
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 29, 2013, 04:19:55 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 29, 2013, 03:45:47 PM
oh am not saying me, but some people up here would have the impression they are more Irish than people down south, a bit like the opposite of the  flag protesters on the other side. They get offended by things not Irish, where down south they wouldnt really be worried

O I get you. A bit like when someone from the 26 acknowledges the realities of the 6 counties being administered as a UK region and that there is another political tradition in the North and people from Britian acknowedging that people from Ireland are Irish and that the Irish should have the right to self-determination and someday if people choose a United Ireland.

Many nationaists, republicans, unionists and loyalists go apeshite if people they see as being on their side are reasonable and deal with realities not wishfull thinking.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 29, 2013, 07:59:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 29, 2013, 01:37:03 PM
Sensible boy Paul Frew - he has little to be at.

RAF Chinook helicopters which had been drafted in to help with food drops have been stood down by the Department of Agriculture.

The Ministry of Defence told the BBC the helicopter would no longer be making drops but is still on standby if required.

The helicopter travelled from its base in Hampshire on Tuesday.

DUP Agriculture spokesman Paul Frew has criticised Agriculture Minister Michelle O'Neill for her decision to stop using the helicopters.

The helicopter made food drops to thousands of animals stranded, mostly in the Glens of Antrim, which has been one of the areas worst affected by the snow.

A member of staff from the Department of Agriculture travelled with the Chinook crew to tell them exactly where to drop the feed.

Paul Frew MLA said: "This decision is one that ranks of stupidity and is only being made to satisfy republican ideology and to protect Sinn Fein's green clouded myth, that they sell their electorate, that somehow they are not part of the UK .

"She has betrayed the very people she is supposed to protect and represent , the farming community, at a time when they needed the department the most.

"How dare they withdraw much needed air support when we are still in the grip of this crisis, when so many are still stranded, when so many are still in despair trying to locate their livestock or more importantly trying to feed the livestock that is still alive.

"This is a fundamental error of judgement by the DARD Minister and it's very clear she is either ignoring the plight of the farmer or she has misjudged the scale of this crisis."

A wee bird tells me that dard hadn't enough feedstuff to distrubute. The chinnook take 13t at a time after a couple of runs they didn't need the capacity simple
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 29, 2013, 08:40:10 PM
Again as shinner I must question the leadership of gerry adams as my party fumbles around  aimlessly in a state of stagnation and our country  flounders like a drowning man desperate for something to grab on to.  Like ming  flanagan gerry now imits an aura of failure in the southern media that he will never shake off. In fact I believe that he would do well to hold on to his own seat never  mind lead the party into government. While my views may not sit well with all shnners our party needs a more agressive leader to put the hammer on the sliveens who have brainwashed  the irish electorate. Right now we'd do well to get into government as  very weak coalition partners and soon after we'd be labour or the greens or pds disappearing down the plughole
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 29, 2013, 09:14:17 PM
First thing ye need to realise is that you can't have massive Governemnt spending increases ( y'know like reversing all the nasty cuts) and do away with all unpopular taxes at the same time  :'(
I heard someone describe the DDI crowd as being a "tooth fairy party" - in favour of everything nice etc but of course will have to magic up some money to pay for it all.
SF are a bit like that too and people have seen through it.
Not to mention being against cuts/taxes/peoperty tax in the 26 while merrily keeping all those things in existence in the 6. ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 29, 2013, 10:47:09 PM
Sinn Fein ( or at least some of the more politically astute in the party ) realise that's it easy to be in opposition and saying what you're going to do. It's different when being comfronted with being in government.

The PDs, Greens and now Labour have found out this to their obvious costs.

Sinn Fein won't be in government anytime soon but they'd be better getting strategies in place when the hard questions get asked cos they don't have the answers presently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 30, 2013, 01:06:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 29, 2013, 03:00:26 PM
seen the red arrows last yr at portrush, dont see what the problem is, royal marine commando storming the beach at the port, oh the offense. went to the military show at the port last summer too, disappointing that the spitfire and lancaster bomber couldnt come that sunday at the airshow. I was always into planes when i was young so i go to these shows when i can.Am irish, not a  die hard and can go to events like these and not be offended. Problem up here is people on both sides go out of their way to be offended. If councillors running the councils and country took as big a interest in planning issues, rates, employment, helping the eldery, health service, we wouldnt be seen as the backward bunch of bible thumping never on a  sunday, gay bashing politicians on i side and the am more of a Irishman than u Southerners, united ireland even if we all unemployed,its our way or the highway republican politicians on the other, plus the inbetweeners.

Good post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 30, 2013, 06:27:12 PM
New poll,Adams rating 45% highest of all the leaders. :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 30, 2013, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 30, 2013, 06:27:12 PM
New poll,Adams rating 45% highest of all the leaders. :o
what???????
well given that gilmore is toast, kenny is a lair whose party tried to dump him, and micky martin bankrupted the country.. who knows maybe gerry is the best
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 30, 2013, 06:39:55 PM
Poll in Irish Sunday Times tomorrow

FG 27% (+1)

FF 23% (-1)

SF 15% (-4)

Labour 7% (-4)

Independents and others 27% (+6)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 30, 2013, 06:56:25 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2013, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 30, 2013, 06:27:12 PM
New poll,Adams rating 45% highest of all the leaders. :o
what???????
well given that gilmore is toast, kenny is a lair whose party tried to dump him, and micky martin bankrupted the country.. who knows maybe gerry is the best

By a country mile  ;
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on March 30, 2013, 06:58:34 PM
Look at ye all discussing poll results were a small amount of people get their views taken.

Lads do something productive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 30, 2013, 07:57:33 PM
Funny when SF down by 4, SF folk try misdirection of talking about something thats as unimportant as party leader. The party leader wins one seat, we are not the USA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 30, 2013, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 30, 2013, 07:57:33 PM
Funny when SF down by 4, SF folk try misdirection of talking about something thats as unimportant as party leader. The party leader wins one seat, we are not the USA.

No misdirecting at all,I put up Adams popularity % because lawnseed had been saying that he should be replaced as leader.Smartarse.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 30, 2013, 08:40:24 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on March 30, 2013, 06:58:34 PM
Look at ye all discussing poll results were a small amount of people get their views taken.

Lads do something productive.
Polls are statistically valid within a margin of error, so the "small amount of people" argument doesn't hold much water.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 31, 2013, 07:42:52 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 30, 2013, 07:57:33 PM
Funny when SF down by 4, SF folk try misdirection of talking about something thats as unimportant as party leader. The party leader wins one seat, we are not the USA.
i've been saying this for quite a while even when we were up in the polls. theres stagnation- a leadership change can make a serious change especially if its a younger man/woman. the policies already there will sound like new ideas that may appeal to younger voters. this is where sinn fein will make progress since the older crowd are blinkered sheep who just want things to go back to 2005
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 31, 2013, 08:05:07 AM
Why aren't there any leadership heavescagainst Adams? Is EVERY SF representative happy with him? Just wondering.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 31, 2013, 08:59:09 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 31, 2013, 08:05:07 AM
Why aren't there any leadership heavescagainst Adams? Is EVERY SF representative happy with him? Just wondering.

I can't speak for every representative but can honestly say I have never heard any disquiet within the party about Gerry's leadership,if fact quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 31, 2013, 09:11:46 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 31, 2013, 08:05:07 AM
Why aren't there any leadership heavescagainst Adams? Is EVERY SF representative happy with him? Just wondering.
i think there has'nt been a challange because up and until gerrys move into louth his position as leader in west belfast was unassailable. he only had to show his face and the sea parted for him. then disaster.. mad mulla mcdowell of the peewee PDs savaged him in a rte tv debate and suddenly the emperor was naked. mcdowell was on very soft ground he and his party were propping up the worst government in the history of the state. adams just got steamrolled. adams' knowledge of southern politics is at best weak hes ponderous and hesitatant because of this weakness. o'caolin if he wanted the job is a better choice. to make progress in the dail it has to be a southerner or a good compromise a nordie southerner.. pearse doherty! acceptable to nordies and mexicans.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 31, 2013, 09:49:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 31, 2013, 07:42:52 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 30, 2013, 07:57:33 PM
Funny when SF down by 4, SF folk try misdirection of talking about something thats as unimportant as party leader. The party leader wins one seat, we are not the USA.
i've been saying this for quite a while even when we were up in the polls. theres stagnation- a leadership change can make a serious change especially if its a younger man/woman. the policies already there will sound like new ideas that may appeal to younger voters. this is where sinn fein will make progress since the older crowd are blinkered sheep who just want things to go back to 2005
So, older voters are sheep... and young voters are so stupid they won't realise that new policies are actually old policies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 31, 2013, 10:26:29 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2013, 09:49:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 31, 2013, 07:42:52 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 30, 2013, 07:57:33 PM
Funny when SF down by 4, SF folk try misdirection of talking about something thats as unimportant as party leader. The party leader wins one seat, we are not the USA.
i've been saying this for quite a while even when we were up in the polls. theres stagnation- a leadership change can make a serious change especially if its a younger man/woman. the policies already there will sound like new ideas that may appeal to younger voters. this is where sinn fein will make progress since the older crowd are blinkered sheep who just want things to go back to 2005
So, older voters are sheep... and young voters are so stupid they won't realise that new policies are actually old policies.
ffs they are all sheep.. its about trying to find out appeals to these particular sheep
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 31, 2013, 01:36:16 PM
Sinn Fein calls for dissident republicans to end armed actionsSinn Fein vice president Mary Lou McDonald has told republican splinter groups to end their armed actions immediately.

Giving the address at the annual Easter commemoration in Belfast, Ms McDonald said Sinn Fein is open to dialogue with the dissidents.

She said armed conflict is in the past and had no place in the present.

Ms McDonald said such groups are acting out a travesty which too often turns to tragedy.

Speaking at Milltown cemetery, she also reiterated Sinn Fein's demand for a border poll, arguing that the campaign for such a referendum should threaten no-one, but demonstrates Sinn Fein's resolve to end partition peacefully.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2013, 03:11:08 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 31, 2013, 01:36:16 PM
Sinn Fein calls for dissident republicans to end armed actionsSinn Fein vice president Mary Lou McDonald has told republican splinter groups to end their armed actions immediately.

Giving the address at the annual Easter commemoration in Belfast, Ms McDonald said Sinn Fein is open to dialogue with the dissidents.

She said armed conflict is in the past and had no place in the present.

Ms McDonald said such groups are acting out a travesty which too often turns to tragedy.

Speaking at Milltown cemetery, she also reiterated Sinn Fein's demand for a border poll, arguing that the campaign for such a referendum should threaten no-one, but demonstrates Sinn Fein's resolve to end partition peacefully.
I am sure it isnt a mystery to SF who these chaps are. Sure just give them a bell.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 01, 2013, 08:12:47 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2013, 03:11:08 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 31, 2013, 01:36:16 PM
Sinn Fein calls for dissident republicans to end armed actionsSinn Fein vice president Mary Lou McDonald has told republican splinter groups to end their armed actions immediately.

Giving the address at the annual Easter commemoration in Belfast, Ms McDonald said Sinn Fein is open to dialogue with the dissidents.

She said armed conflict is in the past and had no place in the present.

Ms McDonald said such groups are acting out a travesty which too often turns to tragedy.

Speaking at Milltown cemetery, she also reiterated Sinn Fein's demand for a border poll, arguing that the campaign for such a referendum should threaten no-one, but demonstrates Sinn Fein's resolve to end partition peacefully.
I am sure it isn't a mystery to SF who these chaps are. Sure just give them a bell.

I'd say they'd be a lot easier to talk to if the party were topping the polls and making political gains... again this stagnation IS a serious problem.

pearse doherty was on rte radio yesterday he sounds tired. i think the reemergence of fianna fail has knocked the shite out of the shinners. i don't think they saw it coming. i'm thinking of shakespear "there is a tide in the affairs of men which taken at the flood leads on to fortune" sinn fein have missed the tide
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 01, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
This won't be read as intended by the usual suspects but here goes.

Gerry Adams, in one of his more relevent tweets, mentioned how moved he was after meeting the Magdalene women. Fair enough. I'd say some of the stories they have would draw tears in any of us.

He then announced a vague call for ALL those who lost their lives FIGHTING for Ireland to be honoured, thereby irritating large sections of the voters in all parts of the Island. IMHO this behaviour is politically silly for a party trying to grow amid the chaos of the current economic crisis. The call for the honouring of the fighters appeals to his own supporters and very few others. They already support SF so politically what is the point? If he thought it would outflank FF the polls have given him his answer.

It would have been politically far smarter to call for something like the Magdalene Women to be honoured/immediately compensated or whatever and to keep banging that drum loudly. That would be something almost everyone would have bought into and would have given credence to his claim about being moved when he met them. Enda Kenny went from last place (among party leaders) to first on the Magdalene issue but in my opinion, Gerry missed a golden opportunity to be statesmanlike and keep ahead of Kenny, on an issue where there is a large consensus.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 01, 2013, 05:16:50 PM
I will let him know what it takes to get the muppets on board,I am sure he will pleased to get your advice. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 01, 2013, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
This won't be read as intended by the usual suspects but here goes.

Gerry Adams, in one of his more relevent tweets, mentioned how moved he was after meeting the Magdalene women. Fair enough. I'd say some of the stories they have would draw tears in any of us.

He then announced a vague call for ALL those who lost their lives FIGHTING for Ireland to be honoured, thereby irritating large sections of the voters in all parts of the Island. IMHO this behaviour is politically silly for a party trying to grow amid the chaos of the current economic crisis. The call for the honouring of the fighters appeals to his own supporters and very few others. They already support SF so politically what is the point? If he thought it would outflank FF the polls have given him his answer.

It would have been politically far smarter to call for something like the Magdalene Women to be honoured/immediately compensated or whatever and to keep banging that drum loudly. That would be something almost everyone would have bought into and would have given credence to his claim about being moved when he met them. Enda Kenny went from last place (among party leaders) to first on the Magdalene issue but in my opinion, Gerry missed a golden opportunity to be statesmanlike and keep ahead of Kenny, on an issue where there is a large consensus.

yes you are 100% correct. :-* gerry's intentions are honourable i believe, but hes coming across very badly. he needs a 'max clifford' or a reality check. he IS the weakest link. he needs to stop tweeting and start working. if he cant turn this around SOON (next 2 mths) he needs someone to tell him to quit. as for the party only pearse,tobin and mary lou and non former combatants and nobody over 50 should be allowed to be interviewed on rte unless its just reading a statement. also angus needs to fade away quitely.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 01, 2013, 07:58:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
This won't be read as intended by the usual suspects but here goes.

Gerry Adams, in one of his more relevent tweets, mentioned how moved he was after meeting the Magdalene women. Fair enough. I'd say some of the stories they have would draw tears in any of us.

He then announced a vague call for ALL those who lost their lives FIGHTING for Ireland to be honoured, thereby irritating large sections of the voters in all parts of the Island. IMHO this behaviour is politically silly for a party trying to grow amid the chaos of the current economic crisis. The call for the honouring of the fighters appeals to his own supporters and very few others. They already support SF so politically what is the point? If he thought it would outflank FF the polls have given him his answer.

It would have been politically far smarter to call for something like the Magdalene Women to be honoured/immediately compensated or whatever and to keep banging that drum loudly. That would be something almost everyone would have bought into and would have given credence to his claim about being moved when he met them. Enda Kenny went from last place (among party leaders) to first on the Magdalene issue but in my opinion, Gerry missed a golden opportunity to be statesmanlike and keep ahead of Kenny, on an issue where there is a large consensus.

So he should forget about those that died for the freedom of Ireland? Ah I think there are enough revisionists and british apologists doing that already in Irish politics. He's probably just proud if men and women who died for us. An odd concept in certain parts, I realise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 01, 2013, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 01, 2013, 07:58:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
This won't be read as intended by the usual suspects but here goes.

Gerry Adams, in one of his more relevent tweets, mentioned how moved he was after meeting the Magdalene women. Fair enough. I'd say some of the stories they have would draw tears in any of us.

He then announced a vague call for ALL those who lost their lives FIGHTING for Ireland to be honoured, thereby irritating large sections of the voters in all parts of the Island. IMHO this behaviour is politically silly for a party trying to grow amid the chaos of the current economic crisis. The call for the honouring of the fighters appeals to his own supporters and very few others. They already support SF so politically what is the point? If he thought it would outflank FF the polls have given him his answer.

It would have been politically far smarter to call for something like the Magdalene Women to be honoured/immediately compensated or whatever and to keep banging that drum loudly. That would be something almost everyone would have bought into and would have given credence to his claim about being moved when he met them. Enda Kenny went from last place (among party leaders) to first on the Magdalene issue but in my opinion, Gerry missed a golden opportunity to be statesmanlike and keep ahead of Kenny, on an issue where there is a large consensus.

So he should forget about those that died for the freedom of Ireland? Ah I think there are enough revisionists and british apologists doing that already in Irish politics. He's probably just proud if men and women who died for us. An odd concept in certain parts, I realise.
no one should forget nally. but we are trying to change the voting habits of people the vast majority of which have never been further into the north than the buttercrane in newry or never been north at all and who dont give a flying fuk about the struggle for freedom north of the border. what appeals to them is what jao duffy says or pat kenny says and right now they have nothing good to say about our party. infact they are more willing to put the boot in sinn fein than fainna fail who actually ruined the place.
  the problem is image plain and simple. the policies dont matter at all. you create the belief that shinners are "clean cut suit wearing go getters" like the conservatives did at the last election in the uk and the sheep will vote for you. the southern irish electorate are the north koreans of europe they have'nt a baldy notion about politics, they voted for young mcentee mostly out of pity thats how dumb they really are. if you dont believe me.. two words... healey raes 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 01, 2013, 09:57:01 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 01, 2013, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 01, 2013, 07:58:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
This won't be read as intended by the usual suspects but here goes.

Gerry Adams, in one of his more relevent tweets, mentioned how moved he was after meeting the Magdalene women. Fair enough. I'd say some of the stories they have would draw tears in any of us.

He then announced a vague call for ALL those who lost their lives FIGHTING for Ireland to be honoured, thereby irritating large sections of the voters in all parts of the Island. IMHO this behaviour is politically silly for a party trying to grow amid the chaos of the current economic crisis. The call for the honouring of the fighters appeals to his own supporters and very few others. They already support SF so politically what is the point? If he thought it would outflank FF the polls have given him his answer.

It would have been politically far smarter to call for something like the Magdalene Women to be honoured/immediately compensated or whatever and to keep banging that drum loudly. That would be something almost everyone would have bought into and would have given credence to his claim about being moved when he met them. Enda Kenny went from last place (among party leaders) to first on the Magdalene issue but in my opinion, Gerry missed a golden opportunity to be statesmanlike and keep ahead of Kenny, on an issue where there is a large consensus.

So he should forget about those that died for the freedom of Ireland? Ah I think there are enough revisionists and british apologists doing that already in Irish politics. He's probably just proud if men and women who died for us. An odd concept in certain parts, I realise.
no one should forget nally. but we are trying to change the voting habits of people the vast majority of which have never been further into the north than the buttercrane in newry or never been north at all and who dont give a flying fuk about the struggle for freedom north of the border. what appeals to them is what jao duffy says or pat kenny says and right now they have nothing good to say about our party. infact they are more willing to put the boot in sinn fein than fainna fail who actually ruined the place.
  the problem is image plain and simple. the policies dont matter at all. you create the belief that shinners are "clean cut suit wearing go getters" like the conservatives did at the last election in the uk and the sheep will vote for you. the southern irish electorate are the north koreans of europe they have'nt a baldy notion about politics, they voted for young mcentee mostly out of pity thats how dumb they really are. if you dont believe me.. two words... healey raes
Good to see your politics are so principled lawnseed. Forget about what you stand for, appeal to the "sheep" and secure power.

And your slur on the southern electorate is a laugh. You'd swear Stormont was full of upstanding, principled and competent politicians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 01, 2013, 10:10:46 PM
no. trick the sheep; secure power; then try keep the sheep happy while we make the country a fairer better place to live.

its not a slur, its a fact. lose sovereignty, golf at druids, tent at galway races, payrises, pay the bankers, pay the victoms of catholic church, pensions, bankrupt the country. lie, cheat, nepotism, dynasty politics, media control, hairdos, makeup, state cars, sugar industry gone, 14.5% unemployment. thats fainna fail and less than 2 years ago. and theyre back and nobody has a bad word to say about them. sheep.. and i forgot brown envelopes.

ffs sean gallagher clearly fainna fail nearly made president of the place..!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 02, 2013, 01:17:58 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 01, 2013, 09:57:01 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 01, 2013, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 01, 2013, 07:58:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 01, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
This won't be read as intended by the usual suspects but here goes.

Gerry Adams, in one of his more relevent tweets, mentioned how moved he was after meeting the Magdalene women. Fair enough. I'd say some of the stories they have would draw tears in any of us.

He then announced a vague call for ALL those who lost their lives FIGHTING for Ireland to be honoured, thereby irritating large sections of the voters in all parts of the Island. IMHO this behaviour is politically silly for a party trying to grow amid the chaos of the current economic crisis. The call for the honouring of the fighters appeals to his own supporters and very few others. They already support SF so politically what is the point? If he thought it would outflank FF the polls have given him his answer.

It would have been politically far smarter to call for something like the Magdalene Women to be honoured/immediately compensated or whatever and to keep banging that drum loudly. That would be something almost everyone would have bought into and would have given credence to his claim about being moved when he met them. Enda Kenny went from last place (among party leaders) to first on the Magdalene issue but in my opinion, Gerry missed a golden opportunity to be statesmanlike and keep ahead of Kenny, on an issue where there is a large consensus.

So he should forget about those that died for the freedom of Ireland? Ah I think there are enough revisionists and british apologists doing that already in Irish politics. He's probably just proud if men and women who died for us. An odd concept in certain parts, I realise.
no one should forget nally. but we are trying to change the voting habits of people the vast majority of which have never been further into the north than the buttercrane in newry or never been north at all and who dont give a flying fuk about the struggle for freedom north of the border. what appeals to them is what jao duffy says or pat kenny says and right now they have nothing good to say about our party. infact they are more willing to put the boot in sinn fein than fainna fail who actually ruined the place.
  the problem is image plain and simple. the policies dont matter at all. you create the belief that shinners are "clean cut suit wearing go getters" like the conservatives did at the last election in the uk and the sheep will vote for you. the southern irish electorate are the north koreans of europe they have'nt a baldy notion about politics, they voted for young mcentee mostly out of pity thats how dumb they really are. if you dont believe me.. two words... healey raes
Good to see your politics are so principled lawnseed. Forget about what you stand for, appeal to the "sheep" and secure power.

And your slur on the southern electorate is a laugh. You'd swear Stormont was full of upstanding, principled and competent politicians.

Your insights show how delusional you really are, the DUP/SF are the poltics of the extremist and the brainwashed. The North has nothing to do with real politics in the Republic except perhaps the economy of the border counties. Stop harping on about up there and  concentrate 100% on the Republic, stop shiteing on about so called heroes who the vast majority of the 26 view as thugs and criminals.

(By the way, this is not to say the 6 counties do not matter, but while they are a different administrative region they are as much a competitor to the Republic as Britian, Germany or Poland. SF cannot stand for the best interests of the electorate and residents of the Republic and do the same for the people of the North at the same time).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 09:26:17 AM
mayo some of what you have said is true. but like most southerners you seem to think that ireland is two separate islands or that there is a huge wall along the border when it suits your skewed point of view. you should try to remember that both jurisdictions are in the EU so real 'competition' is some what curtailed. also as is now the fashion you like to refer to what sinn fein do north of the border as if ireland was all the same country. you cant have it both ways. sinn fein are part of a five party political system unique to the circumstance we find ourselves in. sinn fein south of the border operate in a state where right wing conservative ethos have been to the fore for nearly a hundred years. like all states where one party(fianna gael) has dominated all the problems associated with that scenario are also to the fore. eg corruption dynasty politics. actually ireland has had less political change than communist Russia in the last century. what i'm suggesting is that sinn fein simply try to appeal to what the sheep seem to want.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 02, 2013, 09:34:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 09:26:17 AM
mayo some of what you have said is true. but like most southerners you seem to think that ireland is two separate islands or that there is a huge wall along the border when it suits your skewed point of view. you should try to remember that both jurisdictions are in the EU so real 'competition' is some what curtailed. also as is now the fashion you like to refer to what sinn fein do north of the border as if ireland was all the same country. you cant have it both ways. sinn fein are part of a five party political system unique to the circumstance we find ourselves in. sinn fein south of the border operate in a state where right wing conservative ethos have been to the fore for nearly a hundred years. like all states where one party(fianna gael) has dominated all the problems associated with that scenario are also to the fore. eg corruption dynasty politics. actually ireland has had less political change than communist Russia in the last century. what i'm suggesting is that sinn fein simply try to appeal to what the sheep seem to want.

You do a good job of giving that impression yourself, with your posts about how stupid and gullible to electorate in the Republic are, and that you and your ilk can just fool the "sheep" into voting for SF whenever you like and that will solve all the problems in this country.
Despite the fact that you live in a sectarian basket-case propped up by the British civil service.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 02, 2013, 09:34:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 09:26:17 AM
mayo some of what you have said is true. but like most southerners you seem to think that ireland is two separate islands or that there is a huge wall along the border when it suits your skewed point of view. you should try to remember that both jurisdictions are in the EU so real 'competition' is some what curtailed. also as is now the fashion you like to refer to what sinn fein do north of the border as if ireland was all the same country. you cant have it both ways. sinn fein are part of a five party political system unique to the circumstance we find ourselves in. sinn fein south of the border operate in a state where right wing conservative ethos have been to the fore for nearly a hundred years. like all states where one party(fianna gael) has dominated all the problems associated with that scenario are also to the fore. eg corruption dynasty politics. actually ireland has had less political change than communist Russia in the last century. what i'm suggesting is that sinn fein simply try to appeal to what the sheep seem to want.

You do a good job of giving that impression yourself, with your posts about how stupid and gullible to electorate in the Republic are, and that you and your ilk can just fool the "sheep" into voting for SF whenever you like and that will solve all the problems in this country.
Despite the fact that you live in a sectarian basket-case propped up by the British civil service.
ahh tubberman i was just talking about you and your ilk.. baaahh!!
i think you mean british tax payer not the civil service. thats not our fault at partition norn iron was the envy of the world with more industry per person than anywhere else in europe since then the brits have let the place go to hell. if you want an empire it costs money so tuff shite british taxpayer.
and as for the stupid and gullable bit.. fianna fail? worst government in irish history theyve actually have caused more hardship than the british monarchy when they ran the place and  the sheep still follow them. that reminds me of the wildebeast on the southern plains of africa where the lions are in the process of eating one of the herd while the rest of them graze casually nearby.. researchers believe they forget or like mexicans they think i'm alright jack...

you have to do whats necessary to get the votes then do what you can while in government. thats all that counts get the gig
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 11:23:41 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:14:52 AM
you have to do whats necessary to get the votes then do what you can while in government. thats all that counts get the gig
On that basis, you can hardly complain about Enda Kenny's promise in relation to Roscommon hospital. He did what was necessary to get the votes and get the gig.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 09:26:17 AM
you should try to remember that both jurisdictions are in the EU so real 'competition' is some what curtailed.
What rubbish. If that was the case, Robinson and McGuinness wouldn't have been quite so glum when Cameron told them where to go in relation to corporation tax. And if there was no competition, there wouldn't be hordes of cars piling into Sainsburys in Newry or Asda in Enniskillen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 11:35:34 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:14:52 AM
at partition norn iron was the envy of the world with more industry per person than anywhere else in europe since then the brits have let the place go to hell.
At partition, the economy was based on heavy industry. That economy has disappeared from most developed countries since then.

Also, 30 years of general unrest and the bombing of economic targets didn't help.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 11:23:41 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:14:52 AM
you have to do whats necessary to get the votes then do what you can while in government. that's all that counts get the gig
On that basis, you can hardly complain about Enda Kenny's promise in relation to Roscommon hospital. He did what was necessary to get the votes and get the gig.
exactly my point. good haircut, nice suit, and telling lies to appease the sheep gets the gig. one for everybody in the audience...!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 02, 2013, 01:32:55 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 11:23:41 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:14:52 AM
you have to do whats necessary to get the votes then do what you can while in government. that's all that counts get the gig
On that basis, you can hardly complain about Enda Kenny's promise in relation to Roscommon hospital. He did what was necessary to get the votes and get the gig.
exactly my point. good haircut, nice suit, and telling lies to appease the sheep gets the gig. one for everybody in the audience...!

He is actually a decent person too, and he won over alot of sceptics on the road around Ireland. Alot of people found him more in touch in face to face interactions. As most people who have met him, they may not like his politics, they will tell ya, he is a nice fella.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 09:26:17 AM
you should try to remember that both jurisdictions are in the EU so real 'competition' is some what curtailed.
What rubbish. If that was the case, Robinson and McGuinness wouldn't have been quite so glum when Cameron told them where to go in relation to corporation tax. And if there was no competition, there wouldn't be hordes of cars piling into Sainsburys in Newry or Asda in Enniskillen.
i think you'll find the hoardes of cars are now a trickle and the need to head north is more to do with price fixing. as for the corporation tax i dont buy it. the south has the low tax and the economy is still fukd. 14% unemployment. its a rich mans tax. why should the poor take cuts in services just so some huge company can put a girl and a computer in a office in dublin to avoid tax.                                                                        if you want to attract business you need to tackle the actual costs of running a business here like energy costs. create cheap energy and business will follow it. eg electricity in canada is 3 cents a unit thats about 2p. as you will know most of that heavy industry was water driven it still rains here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 09:26:17 AM
you should try to remember that both jurisdictions are in the EU so real 'competition' is some what curtailed.
What rubbish. If that was the case, Robinson and McGuinness wouldn't have been quite so glum when Cameron told them where to go in relation to corporation tax. And if there was no competition, there wouldn't be hordes of cars piling into Sainsburys in Newry or Asda in Enniskillen.
i think you'll find the hoardes of cars are now a trickle and the need to head north is more to do with price fixing.
You've lost me there - please elaborate.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
as for the corporation tax i dont buy it. the south has the low tax and the economy is still fukd. 14% unemployment. its a rich mans tax. why should the poor take cuts in services just so some huge company can put a girl and a computer in a office in dublin to avoid tax.
You should have told McGuinness that, before he went to London and returned with his tail between his legs.

And if a huge company put a girl and a computer in Dublin to avoid tax somewhere else, is that not the Irish economy getting 12.5% of something they would otherwise have had 0% of?

Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
if you want to attract business you need to tackle the actual costs of running a business here like energy costs. create cheap energy and business will follow it. eg electricity in canada is 3 cents a unit thats about 2p.
So what's the solution? Apparently fracking is widespread in Canada. SF's response: Most people in Leitrim, Cavan, Fermanagh and other areas realise that this practice could have a huge impact on their lives and their surrounding area. This has been clearly demonstrated by the massive groundswell of opposition to fracking. Sinn Féin will stand with the people in their fight against it.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22450

I'm really not sure why you support SF at all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 02, 2013, 05:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 09:26:17 AM
you should try to remember that both jurisdictions are in the EU so real 'competition' is some what curtailed.
What rubbish. If that was the case, Robinson and McGuinness wouldn't have been quite so glum when Cameron told them where to go in relation to corporation tax. And if there was no competition, there wouldn't be hordes of cars piling into Sainsburys in Newry or Asda in Enniskillen.
i think you'll find the hoardes of cars are now a trickle and the need to head north is more to do with price fixing.
You've lost me there - please elaborate.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
as for the corporation tax i dont buy it. the south has the low tax and the economy is still fukd. 14% unemployment. its a rich mans tax. why should the poor take cuts in services just so some huge company can put a girl and a computer in a office in dublin to avoid tax.
You should have told McGuinness that, before he went to London and returned with his tail between his legs.

And if a huge company put a girl and a computer in Dublin to avoid tax somewhere else, is that not the Irish economy getting 12.5% of something they would otherwise have had 0% of?

Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
if you want to attract business you need to tackle the actual costs of running a business here like energy costs. create cheap energy and business will follow it. eg electricity in canada is 3 cents a unit thats about 2p.
So what's the solution? Apparently fracking is widespread in Canada. SF's response: Most people in Leitrim, Cavan, Fermanagh and other areas realise that this practice could have a huge impact on their lives and their surrounding area. This has been clearly demonstrated by the massive groundswell of opposition to fracking. Sinn Féin will stand with the people in their fight against it.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22450

I'm really not sure why you support SF at all.

He follows them because they are a cult party among Northern nationalists. They think they must follow them blindly like sheep.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 05:43:14 PM
Baaaaaaaaaa
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 02, 2013, 05:55:28 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:26:26 PM
exactly my point. good haircut, nice suit, and telling lies to appease the sheep gets the gig. one for everybody in the audience...!

I hope you're just a WUM .....
You claim you want an all Ireland outcome yet you continually insult the 4.4 million majority you will have  to unite with.
If you're not a WUM then you must be just a thick eejit  :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 09:26:17 AM
you should try to remember that both jurisdictions are in the EU so real 'competition' is some what curtailed.
What rubbish. If that was the case, Robinson and McGuinness wouldn't have been quite so glum when Cameron told them where to go in relation to corporation tax. And if there was no competition, there wouldn't be hordes of cars piling into Sainsburys in Newry or Asda in Enniskillen.
i think you'll find the hoardes of cars are now a trickle and the need to head north is more to do with price fixing.
You've lost me there - please elaborate.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
as for the corporation tax i don't buy it. the south has the low tax and the economy is still fukd. 14% unemployment. its a rich mans tax. why should the poor take cuts in services just so some huge company can put a girl and a computer in a office in dublin to avoid tax.
You should have told McGuinness that, before he went to London and returned with his tail between his legs.

And if a huge company put a girl and a computer in Dublin to avoid tax somewhere else, is that not the Irish economy getting 12.5% of something they would otherwise have had 0% of?

Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
if you want to attract business you need to tackle the actual costs of running a business here like energy costs. create cheap energy and business will follow it. eg electricity in canada is 3 cents a unit thats about 2p.
So what's the solution? Apparently fracking is widespread in Canada. SF's response: Most people in Leitrim, Cavan, Fermanagh and other areas realise that this practice could have a huge impact on their lives and their surrounding area. This has been clearly demonstrated by the massive groundswell of opposition to fracking. Sinn Féin will stand with the people in their fight against it.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22450

I'm really not sure why you support SF at all.
actually the most of Canada's power comes from hydroelectric sources.  do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out. to create industry you need a cheap source of power. our energy costs on this island are so high they are prohibitive. this despite having continuous wind and rain. the creation of this kind of energy in itself creates employment.. engineering and public works and maintaince.
but we are in a situation where our electricity supply has fallen into the hands of private companies in fact i'm hearing very bad reports about charges for grid connection and about foul play against those already connected. a wee bird tells me about a guy with a large wind turbine connected to the grid. hes complaining bitterly that nie are switching him off on days of good winds therefore his machine is spinning away but hes earning no money thats what happens when you sell off utilities

if the folk in fermanagh don't want fracking then sinn fein as the political reps are correct to oppose it on their behalf.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2013, 05:55:28 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:26:26 PM
exactly my point. good haircut, nice suit, and telling lies to appease the sheep gets the gig. one for everybody in the audience...!

I hope you're just a WUM .....
You claim you want an all Ireland outcome yet you continually insult the 4.4 million majority you will have  to unite with.
If you're not a WUM then you must be just a thick eejit  :-\
you find the idea that sinn fein sould tell a few lies to get into power so offensive rossie and yet you happily take it up the rear from fianna gael for a hundred years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 06:05:48 PM
hold on i've a brillant idea.. lets have a big party and invite all ex-pats from all over the world get them here and fleece them for every penny.. wack for the daddyo begorra!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2013, 06:37:26 PM

Quoteif the folk in fermanagh don't want fracking then sinn fein as the political reps are correct to oppose it on their behalf.

Indeed, but they should not spout scientific nonsense when doing so. How many "reps" oppose mobile masts while being themselves extensive users of mobile devices.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 02, 2013, 06:47:18 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2013, 05:55:28 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:26:26 PM
exactly my point. good haircut, nice suit, and telling lies to appease the sheep gets the gig. one for everybody in the audience...!

I hope you're just a WUM .....
You claim you want an all Ireland outcome yet you continually insult the 4.4 million majority you will have  to unite with.
If you're not a WUM then you must be just a thick eejit  :-\
you find the idea that sinn fein sould tell a few lies to get into power so offensive rossie and yet you happily take it up the rear from fianna gael for a hundred years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What I find offensive are your continued jibes, put downs and insults of the people of the 26 Cos., yet you claim you want to unite with us.
FF were founded in 1926 and FG came into being in the 1930s..... so maybe you are just plain THICK.
Maybe you could sign up for an adult Education course somewhere.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 02, 2013, 06:50:39 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 06:05:48 PM
hold on i've a brillant idea.. lets have a big party and invite all ex-pats from all over the world get them here and fleece them for every penny.. wack for the daddyo begorra!

I'll be happy to go back and spend my Queens schillings, glad it's not SF sending the invite or I'd be expecting to be detained at the airport and rounded up into a gulag. The day Provo-SF rules in Dublin is the day freedom dies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 02, 2013, 06:59:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2013, 06:47:18 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2013, 05:55:28 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 01:26:26 PM
exactly my point. good haircut, nice suit, and telling lies to appease the sheep gets the gig. one for everybody in the audience...!

I hope you're just a WUM .....
You claim you want an all Ireland outcome yet you continually insult the 4.4 million majority you will have  to unite with.
If you're not a WUM then you must be just a thick eejit  :-\
you find the idea that sinn fein sould tell a few lies to get into power so offensive rossie and yet you happily take it up the rear from fianna gael for a hundred years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What I find offensive are your continued jibes, put downs and insults of the people of the 26 Cos., yet you claim you want to unite with us.
FF were founded in 1926 and FG came into being in the 1930s..... so maybe you are just plain THICK.
Maybe you could sign up for an adult Education course somewhere.

Thats the true face of SF "centralized totalitarian and nationalistic government that strictly controls finance, industry, and commerce, practices rigid censorship, and eliminates opposition through secret police".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 07:03:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2013, 06:37:26 PM

Quoteif the folk in fermanagh don't want fracking then sinn fein as the political reps are correct to oppose it on their behalf.

Indeed, but they should not spout scientific nonsense when doing so. How many "reps" oppose mobile masts while being themselves extensive users of mobile devices.
But good to see his roadmap to revolutionise politics is to champion the parish pump!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out.
Well actually, i'd appreciate if you would.

There was enough power in the water to run individual mills, not to provide electricity to the country. And the 12,000 people were employed in industries that are no longer economically viable (no doubt due to the Brits).

The hyrdopower required to provide substantial levels of electricity is on a different scale altogether. In Canada, it's provided by dams, flooding cast areas of land (no doubt we'd have your SF reps opposing that on behalf of the locals). The idea that we can provide cheaper electricity by harnessing the River Bann... well it all sounds a bit gerrynomics to me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out.
Well actually, I'd appreciate if you would.

There was enough power in the water to run individual mills, not to provide electricity to the country. And the 12,000 people were employed in industries that are no longer economically viable (no doubt due to the Brits).

The hydropower required to provide substantial levels of electricity is on a different scale altogether. In Canada, it's provided by dams, flooding cast areas of land (no doubt we'd have your SF reps opposing that on behalf of the locals). The idea that we can provide cheaper electricity by harnessing the River Bann... well it all sounds a bit gerrynomics to me.

you will realise that tea picking in India is becoming no longer economically viable because Indian ladies no longer 'have time' to do it and it is now considered beneath them besides why bother when you can work in call centres and go to McDonald's..
if you bother to look you'll see that infact ulster was plastered in watered driven industry, that same infrastructure could be made hydro electric providing thousands of kilowatts of carbon neutral sustainable energy. but this is only an example of what we CAN do to help reduce our energy bills and provide employment and attract industry to our island. but feel free to make other suggestions..

your point about me blaming the Brits..? its true ship building, the flax industry etc may have died out on their own but nothing was out in their place

as regards nimbyism there would be people who would object to a goldmine near them. but if its harmful to the balance of nature and enough people in a particular area object then dig somewhere else
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2013, 11:02:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out.
Well actually, I'd appreciate if you would.

There was enough power in the water to run individual mills, not to provide electricity to the country. And the 12,000 people were employed in industries that are no longer economically viable (no doubt due to the Brits).

The hydropower required to provide substantial levels of electricity is on a different scale altogether. In Canada, it's provided by dams, flooding cast areas of land (no doubt we'd have your SF reps opposing that on behalf of the locals). The idea that we can provide cheaper electricity by harnessing the River Bann... well it all sounds a bit gerrynomics to me.

you will realise that tea picking in India is becoming no longer economically viable because Indian ladies no longer 'have time' to do it and it is now considered beneath them besides why bother when you can work in call centres and go to McDonald's..
if you bother to look you'll see that infact ulster was plastered in watered driven industry, that same infrastructure could be made hydro electric providing thousands of kilowatts of carbon neutral sustainable energy. but this is only an example of what we CAN do to help reduce our energy bills and provide employment and attract industry to our island. but feel free to make other suggestions..

your point about me blaming the Brits..? its true ship building, the flax industry etc may have died out on their own but nothing was out in their place

as regards nimbyism there would be people who would object to a goldmine near them. but if its harmful to the balance of nature and enough people in a particular area object then dig somewhere else
Do you just write the first thing comes into your head?! Assam etc wouldn't be coming down with call centres as most people would be living in the sticks.

Anyway powering a millstone or a linen mill with the aid of a waterwheel is a long way from the power needs of a modern society. Pie in the sky.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on April 02, 2013, 11:40:08 PM
I vote SF but thank goodness Lawnseed doesn't lead the party (or any party). Some of these last few posts are funnier than UKIP's manifesto at the last General Election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 03, 2013, 01:02:41 AM
QuoteAssam etc wouldn't be coming down with call centres as most people would be living in the sticks.

Assam is like Tyrone, people live among the bushes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 09:41:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out. to

Way ahead of you guys in the advanced South.  We have harnessed the power of the biggest river in the island and it is driving a massive 85MW turbine!

It's great carbon neutral energy at that massive level.  (Compared to paltry 915MW that Moneypoint produces down river). Now some critics point out that it dries up the fishing in around Limerick but sur' their loss is someone elses gain.  There's also a bit of flooding up river but again that most them backward crowd in Connaught...not a bit of harm to them.

So yes, if put a few hundred hydro stations on Ulsters rivers you will get thousands of Megawatts.  Note though it will have a massive impact on the fishing and tourism in the likes of Fermanagh.  (Then again Fermanagh consists of lakes and Protestants so Shinners may not be too bothered).  Also be prepared for the flooding upstream from the needed dams.  (Again maybe it could be arranged to divert to Protestant areas).....

They do you a disservice on this site, your hydro-electric scheme could be the blow for Irish freedom that 30 years of war never achieved.

Tiocfaidh ár thuile!

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 03, 2013, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 09:41:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out. to

Way ahead of you guys in the advanced South.  We have harnessed the power of the biggest river in the island and it is driving a massive 85MW turbine!

It's great carbon neutral energy at that massive level.  (Compared to paltry 915MW that Moneypoint produces down river). Now some critics point out that it dries up the fishing in around Limerick but sur' their loss is someone elses gain.  There's also a bit of flooding up river but again that most them backward crowd in Connaught...not a bit of harm to them.

So yes, if put a few hundred hydro stations on Ulsters rivers you will get thousands of Megawatts.  Note though it will have a massive impact on the fishing and tourism in the likes of Fermanagh.  (Then again Fermanagh consists of lakes and Protestants so Shinners may not be too bothered).  Also be prepared for the flooding upstream from the needed dams.  (Again maybe it could be arranged to divert to Protestant areas).....

They do you a disservice on this site, your hydro-electric scheme could be the blow for Irish freedom that 30 years of war never achieved.

Tiocfaidh ár thuile!

/Jim.

;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2013, 11:02:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out.
Well actually, I'd appreciate if you would.

There was enough power in the water to run individual mills, not to provide electricity to the country. And the 12,000 people were employed in industries that are no longer economically viable (no doubt due to the Brits).

The hydropower required to provide substantial levels of electricity is on a different scale altogether. In Canada, it's provided by dams, flooding cast areas of land (no doubt we'd have your SF reps opposing that on behalf of the locals). The idea that we can provide cheaper electricity by harnessing the River Bann... well it all sounds a bit gerrynomics to me.

you will realise that tea picking in India is becoming no longer economically viable because Indian ladies no longer 'have time' to do it and it is now considered beneath them besides why bother when you can work in call centres and go to McDonald's..
if you bother to look you'll see that infact ulster was plastered in watered driven industry, that same infrastructure could be made hydro electric providing thousands of kilowatts of carbon neutral sustainable energy. but this is only an example of what we CAN do to help reduce our energy bills and provide employment and attract industry to our island. but feel free to make other suggestions..

your point about me blaming the Brits..? its true ship building, the flax industry etc may have died out on their own but nothing was out in their place

as regards nimbyism there would be people who would object to a goldmine near them. but if its harmful to the balance of nature and enough people in a particular area object then dig somewhere else
Do you just write the first thing comes into your head?! Assam etc wouldn't be coming down with call centres as most people would be living in the sticks.

Anyway powering a millstone or a linen mill with the aid of a waterwheel is a long way from the power needs of a modern society. Pie in the sky.
yeah powering a millstone.. try 1000s of millstones.. try bessbrook try darkley try gilford try sion mills try milford try castlewellan and on and on and on your talking megawatts produced by private individuals injecting cash into the economy the infrastructure is already there, negating the necessity for prolonged run-ins with mr attwood but dont let that side track the real issue  which is that apart from food production this island is devoid of any real indigenious export industry. puting other peoples stuff in boxes that say made in ireland isnt an industry .

again i dont read one idea from any of you 'smart people'  come on wheres are your brilliant schemes? lets have one idea that provides employment and puts the money into the ordinary guys hands.
oh i know lets build a road or a famine wall..  ::)
half the population are civil servants the other half either work in shops or sit around in their pjs all day so right now we need work productive work sustainable work. we dont have billions to invest so it has to be low budget so lets hear it..???
btw doing the euromillions and praying isnt an industry either

come on 30years blah blah jim murphy lets have your idea.. the security industry really helped republicans didnt it ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 11:26:46 AM
come on maguire.. wheres your plan? hardy? ranch? its not that easy putting people to work when you dont have billions to spend is it? history shows that industrial economies boom during a war.. yep that would solve the unemployment and quickly..  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 03, 2013, 12:12:08 PM
Christ MGHU is getting as tedious as Evil Genius in his anti northern nationalist rants. Mind you he is being helped somewhat by the head in the sand dismissive attitudes of some shinners on here. This Island is in a post conflict post Celtic Tiger era. some realism needs to be shown by SF. We can't afford to keep spending money in either jurisdiction we don't have. When the CT was roaring in fairness to the FF government they spent a lot of it wisely and on much needed infra structure. Like most of the world we where caught by the balls when the property balloon burst. There is very good reasons why property went sky high in Ireland, alot of it was fueled by greed and cheap money and a lot fueled by a change in circumstances brought about by the end of conflict and the growth of normality.
SF need to realise that the old rhetoric will only allow them to tread water for so long, they are getting votes at the moment by default because the SDLP in the north is a basket case and the Government in the South is unpopular. Hard decisions need to be made and fair play to Kenny (I can't stand him by the way) he took them and he delivered on the bailout conditions. SF in the executive like the DUP don't want to make unpopular cuts. But there is a day of reckoning coming because slowly the English are waking up to the fact that they can't invest in their country because of subvention paid to the North. That is going to be reduced. There are sound political and economic arguments as to why a UI would benefit both parts of our country, SF are incapable it seems of making them. British policies on Europe are detrimental to the agri food sector on this Island for example...many Unionist Farmers would understand that...if the argument was made in the right way. turning up at Easter Parades mimicing the Loyal Orders marching behind pathetic flute bands does not enhance the unity agenda, neitherdoes Gerry's tweets about honouring the Republican Dead. SF need to get some real policies together that will reduce dependance in the North on the public sector by getting behind growth policies for the private sector. Joining NIPSA on the picket lines doesn't advance private sector investment rather it shows a party of protest devoid of ideas. And to be clear the Southern Economy's growth forcasts are ahead of the UK...3% I read as opposed to flatline, and they are still attracting inward investment, the austerity in the South is mainly as a result of the banking collapse so any baiting of our Southern brothers about their economy is mis placed. DUP and SF both need to man up and take responsibility for real economics and stop hiding behind the UK Finance charade that is Stormont. SF won't go in to government in the South either as to do so would expose their lack of coherent policies. No doubt I will be pilloried here by the Shinners on the board...but you want my vote you have to address my concerns not dismiss them!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2013, 11:02:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out.
Well actually, I'd appreciate if you would.

There was enough power in the water to run individual mills, not to provide electricity to the country. And the 12,000 people were employed in industries that are no longer economically viable (no doubt due to the Brits).

The hydropower required to provide substantial levels of electricity is on a different scale altogether. In Canada, it's provided by dams, flooding cast areas of land (no doubt we'd have your SF reps opposing that on behalf of the locals). The idea that we can provide cheaper electricity by harnessing the River Bann... well it all sounds a bit gerrynomics to me.

you will realise that tea picking in India is becoming no longer economically viable because Indian ladies no longer 'have time' to do it and it is now considered beneath them besides why bother when you can work in call centres and go to McDonald's..
if you bother to look you'll see that infact ulster was plastered in watered driven industry, that same infrastructure could be made hydro electric providing thousands of kilowatts of carbon neutral sustainable energy. but this is only an example of what we CAN do to help reduce our energy bills and provide employment and attract industry to our island. but feel free to make other suggestions..

your point about me blaming the Brits..? its true ship building, the flax industry etc may have died out on their own but nothing was out in their place

as regards nimbyism there would be people who would object to a goldmine near them. but if its harmful to the balance of nature and enough people in a particular area object then dig somewhere else
Do you just write the first thing comes into your head?! Assam etc wouldn't be coming down with call centres as most people would be living in the sticks.

Anyway powering a millstone or a linen mill with the aid of a waterwheel is a long way from the power needs of a modern society. Pie in the sky.
yeah powering a millstone.. try 1000s of millstones.. try bessbrook try darkley try gilford try sion mills try milford try castlewellan and on and on and on your talking megawatts produced by private individuals injecting cash into the economy the infrastructure is already there, negating the necessity for prolonged run-ins with mr attwood but dont let that side track the real issue  which is that apart from food production this island is devoid of any real indigenious export industry. puting other peoples stuff in boxes that say made in ireland isnt an industry .

again i dont read one idea from any of you 'smart people'  come on wheres are your brilliant schemes? lets have one idea that provides employment and puts the money into the ordinary guys hands.
oh i know lets build a road or a famine wall..  ::)
half the population are civil servants the other half either work in shops or sit around in their pjs all day so right now we need work productive work sustainable work. we dont have billions to invest so it has to be low budget so lets hear it..???
btw doing the euromillions and praying isnt an industry either

come on 30years blah blah jim murphy lets have your idea.. the security industry really helped republicans didnt it ::)
You're really missing the point. Each mill generated enough power for its own production. And those industries didn't manage to survive. The average river won't provide hydroelectric power to provide electricity to the wider public or businesses.

And what infrastructure is already there that won't require planning?

As for your statistics, that half the population are civil servants - it's actually 27.7%, so just over a quarter. And the unemployment rate is around 8.5%, with only around 9% of the population working in retail. You've clearly got a great grasp on the economy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 11:26:46 AM
come on maguire.. wheres your plan? hardy? ranch? its not that easy putting people to work when you dont have billions to spend is it? history shows that industrial economies boom during a war.. yep that would solve the unemployment and quickly..  ::)
I don't claim to have the answers. Im not a politician. I could dream up ridiculous ideas, far removed from reality, but who's that going to benefit?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 03, 2013, 12:12:08 PM
Christ MGHU is getting as tedious as Evil Genius in his anti northern nationalist rants. Mind you he is being helped somewhat by the head in the sand dismissive attitudes of some shinners on here. This Island is in a post conflict post Celtic Tiger era. some realism needs to be shown by SF. We can't afford to keep spending money in either jurisdiction we don't have. When the CT was roaring in fairness to the FF government they spent a lot of it wisely and on much needed infra structure. Like most of the world we where caught by the balls when the property balloon burst. There is very good reasons why property went sky high in Ireland, alot of it was fueled by greed and cheap money and a lot fueled by a change in circumstances brought about by the end of conflict and the growth of normality.
SF need to realise that the old rhetoric will only allow them to tread water for so long, they are getting votes at the moment by default because the SDLP in the north is a basket case and the Government in the South is unpopular. Hard decisions need to be made and fair play to Kenny (I can't stand him by the way) he took them and he delivered on the bailout conditions. SF in the executive like the DUP don't want to make unpopular cuts. But there is a day of reckoning coming because slowly the English are waking up to the fact that they can't invest in their country because of subvention paid to the North. That is going to be reduced. There are sound political and economic arguments as to why a UI would benefit both parts of our country, SF are incapable it seems of making them. British policies on Europe are detrimental to the agri food sector on this Island for example...many Unionist Farmers would understand that...if the argument was made in the right way. turning up at Easter Parades mimicking the Loyal Orders marching behind pathetic flute bands does not enhance the unity agenda, neitherdoes Gerry's tweets about honouring the Republican Dead. SF need to get some real policies together that will reduce dependence in the North on the public sector by getting behind growth policies for the private sector. Joining NIPSA on the picket lines doesn't advance private sector investment rather it shows a party of protest devoid of ideas. And to be clear the Southern Economy's growth forcasts are ahead of the UK...3% I read as opposed to flatline, and they are still attracting inward investment, the austerity in the South is mainly as a result of the banking collapse so any baiting of our Southern brothers about their economy is mis placed. DUP and SF both need to man up and take responsibility for real economics and stop hiding behind the UK Finance charade that is Stormont. SF won't go in to government in the South either as to do so would expose their lack of coherent policies. No doubt I will be pilloried here by the Shinners on the board...but you want my vote you have to address my concerns not dismiss them!
as a dad trying to help my kids decide what path to follow in the future i certainly share your concerns regarding the prospects of this island. mrs lawnseed burst into tears when our eldest (9) was asked recently what did he want to do when he grew up and he replied "go to Australia"
i want to make it clear that i'm not baiting our southern brothers my disdain/disappointment comes from the lack of leadership and the continued support for the lack of leadership and the apparent willingness to bend over on every occasion without so much as a whimper. this country has been screwed to the wall and the guys responsible are lording it up writing their memoirs on huge salaries and pensions and their mates who helped them are waltzing back into power and as you say nobody seems to care..  maybe the kids are right get to fuk out of it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2013, 12:56:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2013, 11:02:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out.
Well actually, I'd appreciate if you would.

There was enough power in the water to run individual mills, not to provide electricity to the country. And the 12,000 people were employed in industries that are no longer economically viable (no doubt due to the Brits).

The hydropower required to provide substantial levels of electricity is on a different scale altogether. In Canada, it's provided by dams, flooding cast areas of land (no doubt we'd have your SF reps opposing that on behalf of the locals). The idea that we can provide cheaper electricity by harnessing the River Bann... well it all sounds a bit gerrynomics to me.

you will realise that tea picking in India is becoming no longer economically viable because Indian ladies no longer 'have time' to do it and it is now considered beneath them besides why bother when you can work in call centres and go to McDonald's..
if you bother to look you'll see that infact ulster was plastered in watered driven industry, that same infrastructure could be made hydro electric providing thousands of kilowatts of carbon neutral sustainable energy. but this is only an example of what we CAN do to help reduce our energy bills and provide employment and attract industry to our island. but feel free to make other suggestions..

your point about me blaming the Brits..? its true ship building, the flax industry etc may have died out on their own but nothing was out in their place

as regards nimbyism there would be people who would object to a goldmine near them. but if its harmful to the balance of nature and enough people in a particular area object then dig somewhere else
Do you just write the first thing comes into your head?! Assam etc wouldn't be coming down with call centres as most people would be living in the sticks.

Anyway powering a millstone or a linen mill with the aid of a waterwheel is a long way from the power needs of a modern society. Pie in the sky.
yeah powering a millstone.. try 1000s of millstones.. try bessbrook try darkley try gilford try sion mills try milford try castlewellan and on and on and on your talking megawatts produced by private individuals injecting cash into the economy the infrastructure is already there, negating the necessity for prolonged run-ins with mr attwood but dont let that side track the real issue  which is that apart from food production this island is devoid of any real indigenious export industry. puting other peoples stuff in boxes that say made in ireland isnt an industry .

again i dont read one idea from any of you 'smart people'  come on wheres are your brilliant schemes? lets have one idea that provides employment and puts the money into the ordinary guys hands.
oh i know lets build a road or a famine wall..  ::)
half the population are civil servants the other half either work in shops or sit around in their pjs all day so right now we need work productive work sustainable work. we dont have billions to invest so it has to be low budget so lets hear it..???
btw doing the euromillions and praying isnt an industry either

come on 30years blah blah jim murphy lets have your idea.. the security industry really helped republicans didnt it ::)
You're really missing the point. Each mill generated enough power for its own production. And those industries didn't manage to survive. The average river won't provide hydroelectric power to provide electricity to the wider public or businesses.

And what infrastructure is already there that won't require planning?

As for your statistics, that half the population are civil servants - it's actually 27.7%, so just over a quarter. And the unemployment rate is around 8.5%, with only around 9% of the population working in retail. You've clearly got a great grasp on the economy.
Saved me the bother.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:04:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2013, 11:02:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out.
Well actually, I'd appreciate if you would.

There was enough power in the water to run individual mills, not to provide electricity to the country. And the 12,000 people were employed in industries that are no longer economically viable (no doubt due to the Brits).

The hydropower required to provide substantial levels of electricity is on a different scale altogether. In Canada, it's provided by dams, flooding cast areas of land (no doubt we'd have your SF reps opposing that on behalf of the locals). The idea that we can provide cheaper electricity by harnessing the River Bann... well it all sounds a bit gerrynomics to me.

you will realise that tea picking in India is becoming no longer economically viable because Indian ladies no longer 'have time' to do it and it is now considered beneath them besides why bother when you can work in call centres and go to McDonald's..
if you bother to look you'll see that infact ulster was plastered in watered driven industry, that same infrastructure could be made hydro electric providing thousands of kilowatts of carbon neutral sustainable energy. but this is only an example of what we CAN do to help reduce our energy bills and provide employment and attract industry to our island. but feel free to make other suggestions..

your point about me blaming the Brits..? its true ship building, the flax industry etc may have died out on their own but nothing was out in their place

as regards nimbyism there would be people who would object to a goldmine near them. but if its harmful to the balance of nature and enough people in a particular area object then dig somewhere else
Do you just write the first thing comes into your head?! Assam etc wouldn't be coming down with call centres as most people would be living in the sticks.

Anyway powering a millstone or a linen mill with the aid of a waterwheel is a long way from the power needs of a modern society. Pie in the sky.
yeah powering a millstone.. try 1000s of millstones.. try bessbrook try darkley try gilford try sion mills try milford try castlewellan and on and on and on your talking megawatts produced by private individuals injecting cash into the economy the infrastructure is already there, negating the necessity for prolonged run-ins with mr attwood but dont let that side track the real issue  which is that apart from food production this island is devoid of any real indigenious export industry. puting other peoples stuff in boxes that say made in ireland isnt an industry .

again i dont read one idea from any of you 'smart people'  come on wheres are your brilliant schemes? lets have one idea that provides employment and puts the money into the ordinary guys hands.
oh i know lets build a road or a famine wall..  ::)
half the population are civil servants the other half either work in shops or sit around in their pjs all day so right now we need work productive work sustainable work. we dont have billions to invest so it has to be low budget so lets hear it..???
btw doing the euromillions and praying isnt an industry either

come on 30years blah blah jim murphy lets have your idea.. the security industry really helped republicans didnt it ::)
You're really missing the point. Each mill generated enough power for its own production. And those industries didn't manage to survive. The average river won't provide hydroelectric power to provide electricity to the wider public or businesses.

And what infrastructure is already there that won't require planning?

As for your statistics, that half the population are civil servants - it's actually 27.7%, so just over a quarter. And the unemployment rate is around 8.5%, with only around 9% of the population working in retail. You've clearly got a great grasp on the economy.
you forgot the guys on the sick.. and those in the black economy.. i was talking about the working population ie those making themselves available for work. and the nordie stats dont take into account the thousands who have left the country for work and are no longer on the system. i think if you add those figures together you'll get roughly half involved in non productive/service industry you cant put a civil servants work in a container and ship it can you?

as regards the hydro power you'll find there are some very good examples of this type of mill conversion in britain while it doesnt solve the problem it is part of the solution providing employment. even if it only covered the workers wages at least they are in gainful employment with all the knock on advantages.

i dont think you should rubbish anyone elses ideas unless you have better one yourself and as yet i dont hear any affordable ready to go ideas.

i'm not a politician either and i'm truely worried that we dont have a future to look forward to and that i'm going to be a skype dad so you should understand that right now i'm a little intolerant toward "leaders" feathering their own nest or gawking into the past
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2013, 12:56:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2013, 11:02:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 02, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out.
Well actually, I'd appreciate if you would.

There was enough power in the water to run individual mills, not to provide electricity to the country. And the 12,000 people were employed in industries that are no longer economically viable (no doubt due to the Brits).

The hydropower required to provide substantial levels of electricity is on a different scale altogether. In Canada, it's provided by dams, flooding cast areas of land (no doubt we'd have your SF reps opposing that on behalf of the locals). The idea that we can provide cheaper electricity by harnessing the River Bann... well it all sounds a bit gerrynomics to me.

you will realise that tea picking in India is becoming no longer economically viable because Indian ladies no longer 'have time' to do it and it is now considered beneath them besides why bother when you can work in call centres and go to McDonald's..
if you bother to look you'll see that infact ulster was plastered in watered driven industry, that same infrastructure could be made hydro electric providing thousands of kilowatts of carbon neutral sustainable energy. but this is only an example of what we CAN do to help reduce our energy bills and provide employment and attract industry to our island. but feel free to make other suggestions..

your point about me blaming the Brits..? its true ship building, the flax industry etc may have died out on their own but nothing was out in their place

as regards nimbyism there would be people who would object to a goldmine near them. but if its harmful to the balance of nature and enough people in a particular area object then dig somewhere else
Do you just write the first thing comes into your head?! Assam etc wouldn't be coming down with call centres as most people would be living in the sticks.

Anyway powering a millstone or a linen mill with the aid of a waterwheel is a long way from the power needs of a modern society. Pie in the sky.
yeah powering a millstone.. try 1000s of millstones.. try bessbrook try darkley try gilford try sion mills try milford try castlewellan and on and on and on your talking megawatts produced by private individuals injecting cash into the economy the infrastructure is already there, negating the necessity for prolonged run-ins with mr attwood but dont let that side track the real issue  which is that apart from food production this island is devoid of any real indigenious export industry. puting other peoples stuff in boxes that say made in ireland isnt an industry .

again i dont read one idea from any of you 'smart people'  come on wheres are your brilliant schemes? lets have one idea that provides employment and puts the money into the ordinary guys hands.
oh i know lets build a road or a famine wall..  ::)
half the population are civil servants the other half either work in shops or sit around in their pjs all day so right now we need work productive work sustainable work. we dont have billions to invest so it has to be low budget so lets hear it..???
btw doing the euromillions and praying isnt an industry either

come on 30years blah blah jim murphy lets have your idea.. the security industry really helped republicans didnt it ::)
You're really missing the point. Each mill generated enough power for its own production. And those industries didn't manage to survive. The average river won't provide hydroelectric power to provide electricity to the wider public or businesses.

And what infrastructure is already there that won't require planning?

As for your statistics, that half the population are civil servants - it's actually 27.7%, so just over a quarter. And the unemployment rate is around 8.5%, with only around 9% of the population working in retail. You've clearly got a great grasp on the economy.
Saved me the bother.
so thats your idea ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 01:20:37 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
come on 30years blah blah jim murphy lets have your idea.. the security industry really helped republicans didnt it ::)

I'll ignore the sensitivity chip and give a genuine answer:

On this island Software Development continues to grow.  A few point on this:

1) The great drive East has slowed.  Outsourcing is not what it used to be.
2) The Republic lost out a lot when everyone gave up on education to get into property/building etc..We would have further growth if we could provide the people.
3) The famous corporate tax rate is a red herring, multi-nationals pay less in other countries
4) Data centres are cheapest to run in a temperate climate (although we get more extremes lately)
5) The industry trend is much more towards large centres.  Land a few and generate their own mini-economy: services, catering, houses etc..

If Northern Ireland had a government sufficiently driven on getting this kind of investment (instead of scoring points off each other) they could:

1) Promote maths/science etc in schools
2) Promote science graduate courses (even link them into industry as a direct feed)
3) Go after the multi-nationals.  In such a small population a few wins would go a long way
4) Provide suitably service sites for data centres/cloud computing etc..

The key though is speed in the short-term.  The Republic is leaking jobs due to lack of staff (despite our unemployment rate!)

Other smaller schemes around tourism etc.. are always important.  Unfortunately due to likes of flag protests etc. . Northern Ireland still has a poor name as a destination.  It's small beans but it adds up.

For the record: It is difficult to put faith in any scheme that is dependent on harvesting natural resources (even hydro) from an area the size of the six counties.

/Jim.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on April 03, 2013, 01:25:40 PM
On a separate topic, I heard the Sinn Fein candidate in the Meath East by election there on Newstalk this morning. Very disappointing I thought. The new Sinn Fein candidates tend to be articulate and very sure of their ground. He was very stuttery I felt, and he had Pat Rabbitte by the 'nads if he wanted to go after him properly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2013, 01:32:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can
Without checking out Derwent Hydro I know Derbyshire and the Peak District fairly well having spent 6 weeks in the area as a student. There are significant rivers and reservoirs in the area so not sure if there is any comparison to the Bann. If you google the respective flows and heads on the Derwent and Bann and come back with the figures then we'll talk. The Peak District has a lot peaks.

However, it is good to see you modifying your position from using the Bann to power the entire country to powering individual businesses. On this I won't disagree with you - if the supply was sufficient to generate power on a localised basis then it would do no harm to avail of it and even better if it generated employment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:38:32 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 01:20:37 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
come on 30years blah blah jim murphy lets have your idea.. the security industry really helped republicans didnt it ::)

I'll ignore the sensitivity chip and give a genuine answer:

On this island Software Development continues to grow.  A few point on this:

1) The great drive East has slowed.  Outsourcing is not what it used to be.
2) The Republic lost out a lot when everyone gave up on education to get into property/building etc..We would have further growth if we could provide the people.
3) The famous corporate tax rate is a red herring, multi-nationals pay less in other countries
4) Data centres are cheapest to run in a temperate climate (although we get more extremes lately)
5) The industry trend is much more towards large centres.  Land a few and generate their own mini-economy: services, catering, houses etc..

If Northern Ireland had a government sufficiently driven on getting this kind of investment (instead of scoring points off each other) they could:

1) Promote maths/science etc in schools
2) Promote science graduate courses (even link them into industry as a direct feed)
3) Go after the multi-nationals.  In such a small population a few wins would go a long way
4) Provide suitably service sites for data centres/cloud computing etc..

The key though is speed in the short-term.  The Republic is leaking jobs due to lack of staff (despite our unemployment rate!)

Other smaller schemes around tourism etc.. are always important.  Unfortunately due to likes of flag protests etc. . Northern Ireland still has a poor name as a destination.  It's small beans but it adds up.

For the record: It is difficult to put faith in any scheme that is dependent on harvesting natural resources (even hydro) from an area the size of the six counties.

/Jim.
your right jim. you should give the chips a miss. ;)
not alot of actual jobs in your idea more a sort of aspiration.. service industry.. stuff.. maybe in 20 years. sitting gawking into a computer doesnt really put many containers on the boat. as for getting into the building industy most of the overpriced houses south of the border will fall before they are paid for because they are of poor quality.

picture you sitting there with 50000 to invest in a business idea where you will get a wage before you starve. not you as a student thinking of a job in 10years time.. the folk who need the work are the ones buying oil in drums and wearing coats watching telly.. get the picture?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:43:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 03, 2013, 01:25:40 PM
On a separate topic, I heard the Sinn Fein candidate in the Meath East by election there on Newstalk this morning. Very disappointing I thought. The new Sinn Fein candidates tend to be articulate and very sure of their ground. He was very stuttery I felt, and he had Pat Rabbitte by the 'nads if he wanted to go after him properly.
i refer my honourable friend to the reply i gave several pages ago.. pearse, tobin and mary lou. the rest- written statements only especially in the 26
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2013, 01:32:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can
Without checking out Derwent Hydro I know Derbyshire and the Peak District fairly well having spent 6 weeks in the area as a student. There are significant rivers and reservoirs in the area so not sure if there is any comparison to the Bann. If you google the respective flows and heads on the Derwent and Bann and come back with the figures then we'll talk. The Peak District has a lot peaks.

However, it is good to see you modifying your position from using the Bann to power the entire country to powering individual businesses. On this I won't disagree with you - if the supply was sufficient to generate power on a localised basis then it would do no harm to avail of it and even better if it generated employment.
i never said the entire country but as they say every little helps.
what do you think of the free tickets idea? seeing your still trying to think of an idea of your own :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heganboy on April 03, 2013, 01:51:57 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 01:20:37 PM


On this island Software Development continues to grow.  A few point on this:

1) The great drive East has slowed.  Outsourcing is not what it used to be.
2) The Republic lost out a lot when everyone gave up on education to get into property/building etc..We would have further growth if we could provide the people.
3) The famous corporate tax rate is a red herring, multi-nationals pay less in other countries
4) Data centres are cheapest to run in a temperate climate (although we get more extremes lately)
5) The industry trend is much more towards large centres.  Land a few and generate their own mini-economy: services, catering, houses etc..

If Northern Ireland had a government sufficiently driven on getting this kind of investment (instead of scoring points off each other) they could:

1) Promote maths/science etc in schools
2) Promote science graduate courses (even link them into industry as a direct feed)
3) Go after the multi-nationals.  In such a small population a few wins would go a long way
4) Provide suitably service sites for data centres/cloud computing etc..

The key though is speed in the short-term.  The Republic is leaking jobs due to lack of staff (despite our unemployment rate!)

Other smaller schemes around tourism etc.. are always important.  Unfortunately due to likes of flag protests etc. . Northern Ireland still has a poor name as a destination.  It's small beans but it adds up.

For the record: It is difficult to put faith in any scheme that is dependent on harvesting natural resources (even hydro) from an area the size of the six counties.

/Jim.

Jim,
thats a fair amount of sense in one post
I'd agree with most of what you say there..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 02:00:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:38:32 PM
your right jim. you should give the chips a miss. ;)
not alot of actual jobs in your idea more a sort of aspiration.. service industry.. stuff.. maybe in 20 years. sitting gawking into a computer doesnt really put many containers on the boat. as for getting into the building industy most of the overpriced houses south of the border will fall before they are paid for because they are of poor quality.

picture you sitting there with 50000 to invest in a business idea where you will get a wage before you starve. not you as a student thinking of a job in 10years time.. the folk who need the work are the ones buying oil in drums and wearing coats watching telly.. get the picture?

For the record I am on the (irish) management team of a multi-national and we have created 300 positions in 3.5 years.  We take grads from areas and put them through a 1.5 year conversion course.  1 year academic with 6 month placement.  Get your grades and you are guaranteed a job.

It's only 300 people so far but it's a lot less than 20 years to turn it around.  I would say we spent 2 years in coming up with the idea, designing the courses, getting approval and funding.  Then 1.5 years for first grads.  Couldn't tell you the total cost over that time so don't know how far 50K would go but it's job within 4 years....

Anyway I feel it's more practical than aspirational.  If this was done at government level surely the returns could be greater?



So...lets look at other ideas in the same way:

what is the lead-time in design a hydro-electric station?

Who will invest in building these stations?

When will they be productive?

Will this be a industry selling electricity or will it attract other industry with cheap electricity?

What is the return on investment projection? If I put money in, when will I get it back?

I'm guessing that 50K would generate no more than 1 short-term job in hydro in the short-term.  (ie pay for one guy doing some kind of feasibility...)

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2013, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 02:00:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:38:32 PM
your right jim. you should give the chips a miss. ;)
not alot of actual jobs in your idea more a sort of aspiration.. service industry.. stuff.. maybe in 20 years. sitting gawking into a computer doesnt really put many containers on the boat. as for getting into the building industy most of the overpriced houses south of the border will fall before they are paid for because they are of poor quality.

picture you sitting there with 50000 to invest in a business idea where you will get a wage before you starve. not you as a student thinking of a job in 10years time.. the folk who need the work are the ones buying oil in drums and wearing coats watching telly.. get the picture?

For the record I am on the (irish) management team of a multi-national and we have created 300 positions in 3.5 years.  We take grads from areas and put them through a 1.5 year conversion course.  1 year academic with 6 month placement.  Get your grades and you are guaranteed a job.

It's only 300 people so far but it's a lot less than 20 years to turn it around.  I would say we spent 2 years in coming up with the idea, designing the courses, getting approval and funding.  Then 1.5 years for first grads.  Couldn't tell you the total cost over that time so don't know how far 50K would go but it's job within 4 years....

Anyway I feel it's more practical than aspirational.  If this was done at government level surely the returns could be greater?



So...lets look at other ideas in the same way:

what is the lead-time in design a hydro-electric station?

Who will invest in building these stations?

When will they be productive?

Will this be a industry selling electricity or will it attract other industry with cheap electricity?

What is the return on investment projection? If I put money in, when will I get it back?

I'm guessing that 50K would generate no more than 1 short-term job in hydro in the short-term.  (ie pay for one guy doing some kind of feasibility...)

/Jim.
Lawnseed could power a millstone to make flour and then he could sell the bread. Or he could power a lighbulb from which he could create forgeries of the great paintings of the world. Come on man!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 02:00:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:38:32 PM
your right jim. you should give the chips a miss. ;)
not alot of actual jobs in your idea more a sort of aspiration.. service industry.. stuff.. maybe in 20 years. sitting gawking into a computer doesnt really put many containers on the boat. as for getting into the building industy most of the overpriced houses south of the border will fall before they are paid for because they are of poor quality.

picture you sitting there with 50000 to invest in a business idea where you will get a wage before you starve. not you as a student thinking of a job in 10years time.. the folk who need the work are the ones buying oil in drums and wearing coats watching telly.. get the picture?

For the record I am on the (irish) management team of a multi-national and we have created 300 positions in 3.5 years.  We take grads from areas and put them through a 1.5 year conversion course.  1 year academic with 6 month placement.  Get your grades and you are guaranteed a job.

It's only 300 people so far but it's a lot less than 20 years to turn it around.  I would say we spent 2 years in coming up with the idea, designing the courses, getting approval and funding.  Then 1.5 years for first grads.  Couldn't tell you the total cost over that time so don't know how far 50K would go but it's job within 4 years....

Anyway I feel it's more practical than aspirational.  If this was done at government level surely the returns could be greater?



So...lets look at other ideas in the same way:

what is the lead-time in design a hydro-electric station?

Who will invest in building these stations?

When will they be productive?

Will this be a industry selling electricity or will it attract other industry with cheap electricity?

What is the return on investment projection? If I put money in, when will I get it back?

I'm guessing that 50K would generate no more than 1 short-term job in hydro in the short-term.  (ie pay for one guy doing some kind of feasibility...)

/Jim.
thats great jim. 300 jobs on this island? guaranteed a job? thats really something. but you talk as if the 'grads' your converting got their qualifications for nothing. that in itself is a considerable investment. i'm not going to try make you understand that not everyone whos unemployed has been through a third level eduacation but i'll mention it the next time i hear someone crying about not having any money then i'll run away before they punch my lights out
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 03:44:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can[/b]

A company that have built 30 installations of 20-40MW in size across the whole of Britain so far but you envision 1,000 of MWs being generated in the six counties.

Large scale sites are often asked to have their own source of electricity so that they can drop from the grid at peak times to avoid outages.  Their might be a role for a scheme like derwent provide in that case.  However, the slow response of hydro-electric makes it unsuitable for this kind of on-off situation.

Selling the output of such a generator would raise 20k or so a year (according to their FAQ) which would be a useful addition to a suitably located business with the upfront cash to invest.  However  I miss how it would solve Northern Ireland's overall employment issues.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 03:56:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 03:41:02 PM
thats great jim. 300 jobs on this island? guaranteed a job? thats really something. but you talk as if the 'grads' your converting got their qualifications for nothing. that in itself is a considerable investment. i'm not going to try make you understand that not everyone whos unemployed has been through a third level eduacation but i'll mention it the next time i hear someone crying about not having any money then i'll run away before they punch my lights out

It's one company, one scheme:  You choose to ignore my point that on a government level the jobs would be greater.  You also sneered at my point that those jobs also need services:  More canteen staff, more people shopping in the area:  It adds up to a injection into the economy that creates other jobs that don't need a degree.

It's steps like that which work overtime to generate a sustained economy.

Will the hydro-electric designers in your scheme not need degrees.  You are happy to apply great rigour to my ideas but no answer on your own.

I said I'd take you up on face value but you don't even bother to fully read my posts or give a genuine reply.

Sneer away but if every company had a similar expansion then the unemployment rate would be a lot lower.

And plenty of people who had the ability to get science degrees ended up on the dole because they went to construction, banking and property speculation.

/Jim

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 04:14:31 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 03:44:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can[/b]

A company that have built 30 installations of 20-40MW in size across the whole of Britain so far but you envision 1,000 of MWs being generated in the six counties.

Large scale sites are often asked to have their own source of electricity so that they can drop from the grid at peak times to avoid outages.  Their might be a role for a scheme like derwent provide in that case.  However, the slow response of hydro-electric makes it unsuitable for this kind of on-off situation.

Selling the output of such a generator would raise 20k or so a year (according to their FAQ) which would be a useful addition to a suitably located business with the upfront cash to invest.  However  I miss how it would solve Northern Ireland's overall employment issues.

/Jim.
jim..! jim? maybe a non graduate like me could get a job cleaning your windows or washing your car. maybe you could give me a drum of oil for my heating.. you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear. if guys like john kirk who founded keady and darkley and employed thousands of non graduates had followed your advice and ignored this power source he wouldn't have ended up with warehouses in Belfast, new york, London, Paris, moscow. he wouldn't have brought the railway to keady or put 12000 tonnes of produce on the train and there wouldn't be a monument in the middle of keady in tribute to him would there.
will your employees erect a monument to you i suppose they could create a virtual one in cyberspace.
  we want the same thing but we are talking about two different types of unemployed people. also with government cuts and rising costs a third level education is not going to be affordable to most parents for their kids.
  i don't actually know how this works but it seem that Britain has been offered Guatemala's carbon credits which is handy but they want paid for them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 04:14:31 PM
jim..! jim? maybe a non graduate like me could get a job cleaning your windows or washing your car. maybe you could give me a drum of oil for my heating.. you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Okay last time.  I give an idea with some figures and ideas as to how it would work and a get the old shake of a head and "Jim!Jim?".

Okay you are a not graduate. Fine, I work for a software company who in the main employ graduates yes.

However we have canteen staff, admin staff, payroll staff, gardening staff,maintenance staff, cleaning staff in the evenings.  We even have power generation staff in facilities (and you are putting great stead in that!)

We employed local tradesmen when we expanded our site.  We needed architects, builders, electricians and carpenters.

People spend their money in local shops.  The local spar extended and added a deli counter to do sandwiches at lunch.

The staff go out in the local town and spend money.  They get cabs home.   They buy/rent houses in a depressed market.

That is my point:  yes there are different types of unemployed people but activity in one area generates activity in other areas.

You don't have a degree: fine!
You don't want to wash windows or cars: fine!

but a multi-national company of sufficient size will provide other jobs that run the gammet inbetween.

You put it out for suggestions and I am probably as wrong as wrong can be but will struggle on with IDA et al.. here and await the Hydro-Electric revolution.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 04:37:56 PM
well our nordie government have it nailed we're going to build more roads.. twos years work maybe three then back to the dole.. that'll pay the 20 year mortgage
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2013, 01:32:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can
Without checking out Derwent Hydro I know Derbyshire and the Peak District fairly well having spent 6 weeks in the area as a student. There are significant rivers and reservoirs in the area so not sure if there is any comparison to the Bann. If you google the respective flows and heads on the Derwent and Bann and come back with the figures then we'll talk. The Peak District has a lot peaks.

However, it is good to see you modifying your position from using the Bann to power the entire country to powering individual businesses. On this I won't disagree with you - if the supply was sufficient to generate power on a localised basis then it would do no harm to avail of it and even better if it generated employment.
i never said the entire country but as they say every little helps.
You made the comparison with Canada, so I assumed you were talking about generating energy for the grid. If it was just about a factory/business generating its own power, and it was feasible, then it wouldn't need government intervention - the private sector would be over it like a rash.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:06:39 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 04:37:56 PM
well our nordie government have it nailed we're going to build more roads.. twos years work maybe three then back to the dole.. that'll pay the 20 year mortgage
Who do we blame? Conor Murphy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:09:11 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 04:14:31 PM
jim..! jim? maybe a non graduate like me could get a job cleaning your windows or washing your car. maybe you could give me a drum of oil for my heating.. you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Okay last time.  I give an idea with some figures and ideas as to how it would work and a get the old shake of a head and "Jim!Jim?".

Okay you are a not graduate. Fine, I work for a software company who in the main employ graduates yes.

However we have canteen staff, admin staff, payroll staff, gardening staff,maintenance staff, cleaning staff in the evenings.  We even have power generation staff in facilities (and you are putting great stead in that!)

We employed local tradesmen when we expanded our site.  We needed architects, builders, electricians and carpenters.

People spend their money in local shops.  The local spar extended and added a deli counter to do sandwiches at lunch.

The staff go out in the local town and spend money.  They get cabs home.   They buy/rent houses in a depressed market.

That is my point:  yes there are different types of unemployed people but activity in one area generates activity in other areas.

You don't have a degree: fine!
You don't want to wash windows or cars: fine!

but a multi-national company of sufficient size will provide other jobs that run the gammet inbetween.

You put it out for suggestions and I am probably as wrong as wrong can be but will struggle on with IDA et al.. here and await the Hydro-Electric revolution.

/Jim.
Jim, this penny ain't droppin'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:09:11 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 04:14:31 PM
jim..! jim? maybe a non graduate like me could get a job cleaning your windows or washing your car. maybe you could give me a drum of oil for my heating.. you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Okay last time.  I give an idea with some figures and ideas as to how it would work and a get the old shake of a head and "Jim!Jim?".

Okay you are a not graduate. Fine, I work for a software company who in the main employ graduates yes.

However we have canteen staff, admin staff, payroll staff, gardening staff,maintenance staff, cleaning staff in the evenings.  We even have power generation staff in facilities (and you are putting great stead in that!)

We employed local tradesmen when we expanded our site.  We needed architects, builders, electricians and carpenters.

People spend their money in local shops.  The local spar extended and added a deli counter to do sandwiches at lunch.

The staff go out in the local town and spend money.  They get cabs home.   They buy/rent houses in a depressed market.

That is my point:  yes there are different types of unemployed people but activity in one area generates activity in other areas.

You don't have a degree: fine!
You don't want to wash windows or cars: fine!

but a multi-national company of sufficient size will provide other jobs that run the gammet inbetween.

You put it out for suggestions and I am probably as wrong as wrong can be but will struggle on with IDA et al.. here and await the Hydro-Electric revolution.

/Jim.
Jim, this penny ain't droppin'.
hold on jim heres maguire with some fresh ideas horray the economy is saved.
so i'm enthusatic about wind power and hydro electric and solar and biogas. theres a thread running on this board about potbelly stoves. so we are to believe that people want to saw sticks and carry coal? ::) they are fitting stoves to try to save oil or gas! i know we wont running any factories from alternative energy sources but they can help reduce the country's overall oil bill. i believe that only when we have harnessed every single bit of this type of energy source and reaped the benefits of the employment created only then should we be buying carbon credits.
btw i've been informed that there are 80 jobs for electrical engineers in scotland that remain unfilled for over six months doing maintainance to wind turbines
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:41:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
hold on jim heres maguire with some fresh ideas horray the economy is saved.
As i've already said, I don't claim to have the answers. You certainly don't. Jim made some very sensible points and you rubbished them.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
so i'm enthusatic about wind power and hydro electric and solar and biogas.
You're definitely full of hot air.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
i know we wont running any factories from alternative energy sources but they can help reduce the country's overall oil bill.
Your back-peddling had reached a serious speed at this stage. If we can't even run a factory from alternative sources, how do we reduce the oil bill? Do we now ignore your comparisons with Canada?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:43:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2013, 01:32:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can
Without checking out Derwent Hydro I know Derbyshire and the Peak District fairly well having spent 6 weeks in the area as a student. There are significant rivers and reservoirs in the area so not sure if there is any comparison to the Bann. If you google the respective flows and heads on the Derwent and Bann and come back with the figures then we'll talk. The Peak District has a lot peaks.

However, it is good to see you modifying your position from using the Bann to power the entire country to powering individual businesses. On this I won't disagree with you - if the supply was sufficient to generate power on a localised basis then it would do no harm to avail of it and even better if it generated employment.
i never said the entire country but as they say every little helps.
You made the comparison with Canada, so I assumed you were talking about generating energy for the grid. If it was just about a factory/business generating its own power, and it was feasible, then it wouldn't need government intervention - the private sector would be over it like a rash.
the private sector are already over it like a rash theyre called nie my comparison with canada was in relation to energy costs ours are 20 times greater thats something to think about when your looking somewhere to set up a business maybe thats why they can pay their workers 4 times the wages for the same job
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:49:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:41:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
hold on jim heres maguire with some fresh ideas horray the economy is saved.
As i've already said, I don't claim to have the answers. You certainly don't. Jim made some very sensible points and you rubbished them.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
so i'm enthusatic about wind power and hydro electric and solar and biogas.
You're definitely full of hot air.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
i know we wont running any factories from alternative energy sourcesalone but they can help reduce the country's overall oil bill.
Your back-peddling had reached a serious speed at this stage. If we can't even run a factory from alternative sources, how do we reduce the oil bill? Do we now ignore your comparisons with Canada?
both jim and i are discussing niche industries and we both think we are right or partially right. you on the other hand dont even have one idea. maybe old peoples homes for stoops is your thing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:55:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:43:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2013, 01:32:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can
Without checking out Derwent Hydro I know Derbyshire and the Peak District fairly well having spent 6 weeks in the area as a student. There are significant rivers and reservoirs in the area so not sure if there is any comparison to the Bann. If you google the respective flows and heads on the Derwent and Bann and come back with the figures then we'll talk. The Peak District has a lot peaks.

However, it is good to see you modifying your position from using the Bann to power the entire country to powering individual businesses. On this I won't disagree with you - if the supply was sufficient to generate power on a localised basis then it would do no harm to avail of it and even better if it generated employment.
i never said the entire country but as they say every little helps.
You made the comparison with Canada, so I assumed you were talking about generating energy for the grid. If it was just about a factory/business generating its own power, and it was feasible, then it wouldn't need government intervention - the private sector would be over it like a rash.
the private sector are already over it like a rash theyre called nie my comparison with canada was in relation to energy costs ours are 20 times greater thats something to think about when your looking somewhere to set up a business maybe thats why they can pay their workers 4 times the wages for the same job
By private sector, I meant individual companies. However, if NIE are aleady over it like a rash, what's the problem? It's happening!

And now you're back to saying that Canada's energy costs are so much lower, yet you've conceeded that hydro power can't do the same thing here. What's the point in the comparison? That's like complaining that Ireland's banana production is terrible in comparison to the Caribbean.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:59:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:49:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:41:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
hold on jim heres maguire with some fresh ideas horray the economy is saved.
As i've already said, I don't claim to have the answers. You certainly don't. Jim made some very sensible points and you rubbished them.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
so i'm enthusatic about wind power and hydro electric and solar and biogas.
You're definitely full of hot air.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
i know we wont running any factories from alternative energy sourcesalone but they can help reduce the country's overall oil bill.
Your back-peddling had reached a serious speed at this stage. If we can't even run a factory from alternative sources, how do we reduce the oil bill? Do we now ignore your comparisons with Canada?
both jim and i are discussing niche industries and we both think we are right or partially right. you on the other hand dont even have one idea. maybe old peoples homes for stoops is your thing
You don't have to know the right answer to recognise the wrong one. Jim's posts had some substance and semblance of reality. Yours appear to be random thoughts. That's not a solution.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ludermor on April 03, 2013, 06:32:45 PM
I'm surprised lawnseed hasn't mentioned the spirit of Ireland project yet (or maybe he has?)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 07:14:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:49:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 03, 2013, 05:41:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
hold on jim heres maguire with some fresh ideas horray the economy is saved.
As i've already said, I don't claim to have the answers. You certainly don't. Jim made some very sensible points and you rubbished them.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
so i'm enthusatic about wind power and hydro electric and solar and biogas.
You're definitely full of hot air.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
i know we wont running any factories from alternative energy sourcesalone but they can help reduce the country's overall oil bill.
Your back-peddling had reached a serious speed at this stage. If we can't even run a factory from alternative sources, how do we reduce the oil bill? Do we now ignore your comparisons with Canada?
both jim and i are discussing niche industries and we both think we are right or partially right. you on the other hand dont even have one idea. maybe old peoples homes for stoops is your thing
Just noticed as well - your inclusion of 'alone', not in your original post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 03, 2013, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

Then to make our money back we could charge the passenger-tourists for everything from sitting down to using the toilet. Actually maybe we could call it The Rogering.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:06:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 03, 2013, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

Then to make our money back we could charge the passenger-tourists for everything from sitting down to using the toilet. Actually maybe we could call it The Rogering.
as they do in london.. but then theres alot more to see and do in london but we may get away with it for a while..
what about yourself muppet any get rich quick schemes that might create a few jobs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on April 03, 2013, 10:35:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 11:26:46 AM
come on maguire.. wheres your plan? hardy? ranch? its not that easy putting people to work when you dont have billions to spend is it? history shows that industrial economies boom during a war.. yep that would solve the unemployment and quickly..  ::)

I don't have a plan, it's not my job to have one either. I vote SF regardless.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:44:10 PM
Quote from: ranch on April 03, 2013, 10:35:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 11:26:46 AM
come on maguire.. wheres your plan? hardy? ranch? its not that easy putting people to work when you dont have billions to spend is it? history shows that industrial economies boom during a war.. yep that would solve the unemployment and quickly..  ::)

I don't have a plan, it's not my job to have one either. I vote SF regardless.
emm...? you know the way sometimes i mention the 'sh' word. well  its not sopposed to include shinners
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 03, 2013, 10:46:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:06:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 03, 2013, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

Then to make our money back we could charge the passenger-tourists for everything from sitting down to using the toilet. Actually maybe we could call it The Rogering.
as they do in london.. but then theres alot more to see and do in london but we may get away with it for a while..
what about yourself muppet any get rich quick schemes that might create a few jobs

That is the last thing we need.

I like what I read from Jim earlier. Also regarding our Natural Resources I would be closer to Norway than Nigeria. Unfortunately the mandarins that advise the elected muppets think differently.

Regarding your tourism proposal it is only marginally worse than The Gathering. They need to do something substantive instead of just issuing a blank invitation. For example Family Tree tourism is really big in the States these days. People from all over the US fly to Salt Lake City  Utah, just to see a database. Why not encourage them to come here to see the real places where their ancestors came from. To do that we need to stop ripping them off by charging extortionate prices (up to €5 each) to see records of their own families. Find a way to give it to them for buttons, as long as they travel. But tourism is only going to do so much. And something like Family Tree tourism is probably another passing fad.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2013, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 03, 2013, 10:46:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 10:06:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 03, 2013, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection ;)

Then to make our money back we could charge the passenger-tourists for everything from sitting down to using the toilet. Actually maybe we could call it The Rogering.
as they do in london.. but then theres alot more to see and do in london but we may get away with it for a while..
what about yourself muppet any get rich quick schemes that might create a few jobs

That is the last thing we need.

I like what I read from Jim earlier. Also regarding our Natural Resources I would be closer to Norway than Nigeria. Unfortunately the mandarins that advise the elected muppets think differently.

Regarding your tourism proposal it is only marginally worse than The Gathering. They need to do something substantive instead of just issuing a blank invitation. For example Family Tree tourism is really big in the States these days. People from all over the US fly to Salt Lake City  Utah, just to see a database. Why not encourage them to come here to see the real places where their ancestors came from. To do that we need to stop ripping them off by charging extortionate prices (up to €5 each) to see records of their own families. Find a way to give it to them for buttons, as long as they travel. But tourism is only going to do so much. And something like Family Tree tourism is probably another passing fad.
To see the ghost housing estates built over the places their ancestors came from.

Lawnseed, what about a big nuclear power station down by Newcastle? Meets your energy needs, years of construction work and ongoing employment for hundreds of years managing the waste. Ticks a lot of boxes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 03, 2013, 11:00:55 PM
nuclear? if we'd have had a bit of that stuff 30 years ago.. there'd be a whole lot less tourists tramping around london ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 04, 2013, 06:33:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 03, 2013, 12:12:08 PM
Christ MGHU is getting as tedious as Evil Genius in his anti northern nationalist rants. Mind you he is being helped somewhat by the head in the sand dismissive attitudes of some shinners on here. This Island is in a post conflict post Celtic Tiger era. some realism needs to be shown by SF. We can't afford to keep spending money in either jurisdiction we don't have. When the CT was roaring in fairness to the FF government they spent a lot of it wisely and on much needed infra structure. Like most of the world we where caught by the balls when the property balloon burst. There is very good reasons why property went sky high in Ireland, alot of it was fueled by greed and cheap money and a lot fueled by a change in circumstances brought about by the end of conflict and the growth of normality.
SF need to realise that the old rhetoric will only allow them to tread water for so long, they are getting votes at the moment by default because the SDLP in the north is a basket case and the Government in the South is unpopular. Hard decisions need to be made and fair play to Kenny (I can't stand him by the way) he took them and he delivered on the bailout conditions. SF in the executive like the DUP don't want to make unpopular cuts. But there is a day of reckoning coming because slowly the English are waking up to the fact that they can't invest in their country because of subvention paid to the North. That is going to be reduced. There are sound political and economic arguments as to why a UI would benefit both parts of our country, SF are incapable it seems of making them. British policies on Europe are detrimental to the agri food sector on this Island for example...many Unionist Farmers would understand that...if the argument was made in the right way. turning up at Easter Parades mimicing the Loyal Orders marching behind pathetic flute bands does not enhance the unity agenda, neitherdoes Gerry's tweets about honouring the Republican Dead. SF need to get some real policies together that will reduce dependance in the North on the public sector by getting behind growth policies for the private sector. Joining NIPSA on the picket lines doesn't advance private sector investment rather it shows a party of protest devoid of ideas. And to be clear the Southern Economy's growth forcasts are ahead of the UK...3% I read as opposed to flatline, and they are still attracting inward investment, the austerity in the South is mainly as a result of the banking collapse so any baiting of our Southern brothers about their economy is mis placed. DUP and SF both need to man up and take responsibility for real economics and stop hiding behind the UK Finance charade that is Stormont. SF won't go in to government in the South either as to do so would expose their lack of coherent policies. No doubt I will be pilloried here by the Shinners on the board...but you want my vote you have to address my concerns not dismiss them!

Only a reaction to the contempt that oozes from the North on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 04, 2013, 10:07:38 PM
just a wee update on my green energy investment idea. i made a point of contacting a lad who lives near dungannon he actually owns a wind turbine. last year it generated £28000quid into his bank account. he doesn't live in a particularly windy area. not far from where i live a farmer has secured planning for a huge turbine. he has already had a wind meter for two years. his machine will earn £80000per annum going by the readings so far.  two single turbines putting over £100,000 directly into the nordie economy with only two small sites of 20ftx20ft of land used. the second guys site is waste ground. both these guys borrowed the money from the bank themselves and pay tax on this island. the possibilities for this type of investment are only limited by the amount of planning granted and if they are not a nuisance i don't see a problem. I'm particularly happy the second man has got the green light because his farmland is very poor and he and his family would have had some really tough times. these are fast payback investments in my case i actually prepay my electric bill but the more lads like these two examples there are the more of my money will end up here instead of disappearing into the coffers of some sheik in dubai
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 04, 2013, 10:11:59 PM
On my way to buy a wind turbine...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 04, 2013, 10:33:00 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 04, 2013, 10:07:38 PM
just a wee update on my green energy investment idea. i made a point of contacting a lad who lives near dungannon he actually owns a wind turbine. last year it generated £28000quid into his bank account. he doesn't live in a particularly windy area. not far from where i live a farmer has secured planning for a huge turbine. he has already had a wind meter for two years. his machine will earn £80000per annum going by the readings so far.  two single turbines putting over £100,000 directly into the nordie economy with only two small sites of 20ftx20ft of land used. the second guys site is waste ground. both these guys borrowed the money from the bank themselves and pay tax on this island. the possibilities for this type of investment are only limited by the amount of planning granted and if they are not a nuisance i don't see a problem. I'm particularly happy the second man has got the green light because his farmland is very poor and he and his family would have had some really tough times. these are fast payback investments in my case i actually prepay my electric bill but the more lads like these two examples there are the more of my money will end up here instead of disappearing into the coffers of some sheik in dubai
Could have told you all that myself. The father in law is putting one on his land but some firm are paying for it and paying him for the privilege plus providing power to the farm. Serious investment required to do it all yourself but as you say payback times are only a few years, then it's free money.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 04, 2013, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 04, 2013, 10:33:00 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 04, 2013, 10:07:38 PM
just a wee update on my green energy investment idea. i made a point of contacting a lad who lives near dungannon he actually owns a wind turbine. last year it generated £28000quid into his bank account. he doesn't live in a particularly windy area. not far from where i live a farmer has secured planning for a huge turbine. he has already had a wind meter for two years. his machine will earn £80000per annum going by the readings so far.  two single turbines putting over £100,000 directly into the nordie economy with only two small sites of 20ftx20ft of land used. the second guys site is waste ground. both these guys borrowed the money from the bank themselves and pay tax on this island. the possibilities for this type of investment are only limited by the amount of planning granted and if they are not a nuisance i don't see a problem. I'm particularly happy the second man has got the green light because his farmland is very poor and he and his family would have had some really tough times. these are fast payback investments in my case i actually prepay my electric bill but the more lads like these two examples there are the more of my money will end up here instead of disappearing into the coffers of some sheik in dubai
Could have told you all that myself. The father in law is putting one on his land but some firm are paying for it and paying him for the privilege plus providing power to the farm. Serious investment required to do it all yourself but as you say payback times are only a few years, then it's free money.
yes tony and the money your father inlaw gets he'll probably plough straight into something else creating even more work and helping to get out economy up and running in double quick time. this is the type of investment sinn fein suggested when fainna gael were raiding the national pension fund and handing the money to the germans. incidently if enda get his way the electricity company that owns the bulk of our capacity will be sold off according to the terms of the bailout. then we'll see even more obstacles put in the way of getting connected to the grid.

you see i'm not completely mad.. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
john o dowd! brilliant again today on bbc radio. hes cool, confident, competent, informed, sincere and i think hes really enjoying his time as education minister. well done john! definite leader material so far
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 09, 2013, 10:14:25 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
john o dowd! brilliant again today on bbc radio. hes cool, confident, competent, informed, sincere and i think hes really enjoying his time as education minister. well done john! definite leader material so far
As SF ministers go, he's probably the best they've had. Not that the bar's that high. But he won't be party leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 09, 2013, 10:14:58 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
john o dowd! brilliant again today on bbc radio. hes cool, confident, competent, informed, sincere and i think hes really enjoying his time as education minister. well done john! definite leader material so far
Whislst I don't like his politics he is my favourite Shinner by a long way. A decent operator alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 09, 2013, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 09, 2013, 10:14:58 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
john o dowd! brilliant again today on bbc radio. hes cool, confident, competent, informed, sincere and i think hes really enjoying his time as education minister. well done john! definite leader material so far
Whilst I don't like his politics he is my favourite Shinner by a long way. A decent operator alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2013, 10:14:25 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
john o dowd! brilliant again today on bbc radio. hes cool, confident, competent, informed, sincere and i think hes really enjoying his time as education minister. well done john! definite leader material so far
As SF ministers go, he's probably the best they've had. Not that the bar's that high. But he won't be party leader.
has he said hes not intersted?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 12, 2013, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2013, 10:14:25 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
john o dowd! brilliant again today on bbc radio. hes cool, confident, competent, informed, sincere and i think hes really enjoying his time as education minister. well done john! definite leader material so far
As SF ministers go, he's probably the best they've had. Not that the bar's that high. But he won't be party leader.
has he said hes not intersted?
He's from Lurgan the Belfast/Derry Axis will prevail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 12, 2013, 06:29:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2013, 10:14:25 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
john o dowd! brilliant again today on bbc radio. hes cool, confident, competent, informed, sincere and i think hes really enjoying his time as education minister. well done john! definite leader material so far
As SF ministers go, he's probably the best they've had. Not that the bar's that high. But he won't be party leader.
has he said hes not intersted?
He's relatively competent, but I don't think he has the charisma to be leader. Or, superficial though it may be, he doesn't look or sound like a leader - and these things tend to matter in politics. Plus as far as i'm aware, he has zero visibility in the south - i'd imagine a very high proportion of SF voters in the south couldn't name him. And i'd expect the next SF leader to have significant presence / recognition in the south.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 12, 2013, 07:08:28 PM
According to Slugger, Alex Maskey came out with the following on UTV this week:
QuoteThe fundamental difference between before the Good Friday Agreement and after the Good Friday Agreement is that the British Government, and the British State, no longer claim jurisdiction over this part of the island

Given that it's not so long ago that John O'Dowd came out with this...
QuoteAn all-island referendum would have precedence
...you have to ask whether SF understand what they've signed up to at all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 07:54:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)

Hope they behave themselves in our town.

Why would they pass through Roscommon, it's not on the main routes from the 6 counties?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 12, 2013, 07:58:23 PM
Always behave and will enjoy the West
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 12, 2013, 08:04:41 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 12, 2013, 07:58:23 PM
Always behave and will enjoy the West

After the formalities, head to Johnny McHale's pub and order a medium (pronounced may-jum).

If you get time check into McCarthy's and Mayo Gaa headquarters in Mick Byrne's.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 07:54:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)

Hope they behave themselves in our town.

Why would they pass through Roscommon, it's not on the main routes from the 6 counties?
How are they going to go so? via Galway???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 08:21:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)
we could give you a lift to a+e if you need it ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 08:39:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 12, 2013, 06:29:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2013, 10:14:25 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 09, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
john o dowd! brilliant again today on bbc radio. hes cool, confident, competent, informed, sincere and i think hes really enjoying his time as education minister. well done john! definite leader material so far
As SF ministers go, he's probably the best they've had. Not that the bar's that high. But he won't be party leader.
has he said hes not intersted?
He's relatively competent, but I don't think he has the charisma to be leader. Or, superficial though it may be, he doesn't look or sound like a leader - and these things tend to matter in politics. Plus as far as i'm aware, he has zero visibility in the south - i'd imagine a very high proportion of SF voters in the south couldn't name him. And i'd expect the next SF leader to have significant presence / recognition in the south.
"the charisma to be a leader"? like enda kenny or big al or mark durkin they really look like leaders? ghandi? maybe if he looked like mel gibson and wore a kilt and had a big sword.. or if he was russell crowes maximus or maybe he looked like napoleon 5ft nothing. maybe he could get plastic surgery and end up looking like che you could get him on your t-shirt.

john o dowd has wiped the floor with every interviewer or detractor who has tried to discredit the stirling work he his trying to do in the dept of eduacation since he took the post. teachers on both sides of our crappy eduacation system respect him. hes the best minister in any dept since devolution but you dont like the look of him... ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 08:46:41 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 08:21:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)
we could give you a lift to a+e if you need it ;)

  :o SF'rs can't help themselves with the threats  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 07:54:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)

Hope they behave themselves in our town.

Why would they pass through Roscommon, it's not on the main routes from the 6 counties?


How are they going to go so? via Galway???

You said "town" as in Roscommon "Town", the main routes from the North would be Longford and Sligo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 08:49:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 08:46:41 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 08:21:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)
we could give you a lift to a+e if you need it ;)

  :o SF'rs can't help themselves with the threats  :o
sure rossie wouldnt need a lift if your hero hadnt lied about his hospital
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 08:53:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 08:49:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 08:46:41 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 08:21:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)
we could give you a lift to a+e if you need it ;)

  :o SF'rs can't help themselves with the threats  :o
sure rossie wouldnt need a lift if your hero hadnt lied about his hospital

What's your problem with Ciaran McDonald?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 08:53:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 08:49:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 08:46:41 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 12, 2013, 08:21:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)
we could give you a lift to a+e if you need it ;)

  :o SF'rs can't help themselves with the threats  :o
sure rossie wouldnt need a lift if your hero hadnt lied about his hospital

What's your problem with Ciaran McDonald?
hes my hero too
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 07:54:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)

Hope they behave themselves in our town.

Why would they pass through Roscommon, it's not on the main routes from the 6 counties?


How are they going to go so? via Galway???

You said "town" as in Roscommon "Town", the main routes from the North would be Longford and Sligo.

I never said town >:( - that was you ;) :P -- if you read the above correctly  :P

There was a big sign in Cortober (on the Ros side of Carrick (on Shannon)) today welcoming the SF delegates to Connacht.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 12, 2013, 07:54:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
Hope all ye SFrs find ye're way to Castlebar for the weekend.
Please keep Roscommon tidy as ye pass through. ;)

Hope they behave themselves in our town.

Why would they pass through Roscommon, it's not on the main routes from the 6 counties?


How are they going to go so? via Galway???

You said "town" as in Roscommon "Town", the main routes from the North would be Longford and Sligo.

I never said town >:( - that was you ;) :P -- if you read the above correctly  :P

There was a big sign in Cortober (on the Ros side of Carrick (on Shannon)) today welcoming the SF delegates to Connacht.

:-[ So it was, getting mithered in my old age   :P

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 13, 2013, 05:50:57 PM

Delegates at the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis have heard that it is the only party putting forward a sensible and coherent alternative to the failed politics of austerity.

Deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald attacked the new Croke Park proposals saying that they were anything but equitable and fair.

Ms McDonald told delegates in Co Mayo that it was time to put to bed the lie that public sector workers are somehow sheltered from the financial struggle.

She said the extension of the Croke Park agreement was another example of the Government dipping into the pockets of the low and middle earners.

Congratulating Frontline workers for speaking out against the deal, Ms McDonald said that they were at the end of their tether.

Earlier, the North's Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, said  the party was the only one in the State putting forward a sensible and coherent alternative to the failed politics of austerity.

The party's Finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty told delegates in Castlebar's Royal theatre that there is an alternative to the Government's statistics of shame on unemployment, on mortgage distress and on emigration.

Mr Doherty said that the party would force a Dáil vote on the property tax when it introduces its legislation on the issue in the coming weeks.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
'Political party says it has the answers' shocker!

On another note, if SF is serious about peace and reconciliation, then why are they selling 'sniper at work' badges at their Ard Fheis? Classy. Seriously like, it's 2013.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 13, 2013, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
'Political party says it has the answers' shocker!

On another note, if SF is serious about peace and reconciliation, then why are they selling 'sniper at work' badges at their Ard Fheis? Classy. Seriously like, it's 2013.

I saw that but who (what organisation) exactly is selling them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 13, 2013, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 13, 2013, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
'Political party says it has the answers' shocker!

On another note, if SF is serious about peace and reconciliation, then why are they selling 'sniper at work' badges at their Ard Fheis? Classy. Seriously like, it's 2013.

I saw that but who (what organisation) exactly is selling them?

Perhaps as they are in Mayo, it is some kind of Cillian O'Connor appreciation group.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 13, 2013, 10:39:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
'Political party says it has the answers' shocker!

On another note, if SF is serious about peace and reconciliation, then why are they selling 'sniper at work' badges at their Ard Fheis? Classy. Seriously like, it's 2013.

get me one i'll give you the money
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 10:41:17 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2013, 10:39:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
'Political party says it has the answers' shocker!

On another note, if SF is serious about peace and reconciliation, then why are they selling 'sniper at work' badges at their Ard Fheis? Classy. Seriously like, it's 2013.

get me one i'll give you the money
I was wondering what sort of person would wear it. The answer was obvious really.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on April 13, 2013, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 10:41:17 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2013, 10:39:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
'Political party says it has the answers' shocker!

On another note, if SF is serious about peace and reconciliation, then why are they selling 'sniper at work' badges at their Ard Fheis? Classy. Seriously like, it's 2013.

get me one i'll give you the money
I was wondering what sort of person would wear it. The answer was obvious really.

It has been removed from the SF bookshop website, was available earlier today.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2013, 11:05:28 PM
New Millward Brown Poll
FG 24 (-1)
Lab 12 (+3)
FF 27 (-2 )
SF 16 (-4)
Ind 18 (+2)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 13, 2013, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2013, 11:05:28 PM
New Millward Brown Poll
FG 24 (-1)
Lab 12 (+3)
FF 27 (-2 )
SF 16 (-4)
Ind 18 (+2)

FF clear in the lead! Labour up!! What a f**king embarassment of a place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 13, 2013, 11:47:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 13, 2013, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2013, 11:05:28 PM
New Millward Brown Poll
FG 24 (-1)
Lab 12 (+3)
FF 27 (-2 )
SF 16 (-4)
Ind 18 (+2)

FF clear in the lead! Labour up!! What a f**king embarassment of a place.

Throwing stones in glasshouses there Nally, you come from a place were people vote DUP and SF, cleary a voting population of sectarian nutcases.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 12:50:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 14, 2013, 12:01:45 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 13, 2013, 11:47:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 13, 2013, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2013, 11:05:28 PM
New Millward Brown Poll
FG 24 (-1)
Lab 12 (+3)
FF 27 (-2 )
SF 16 (-4)
Ind 18 (+2)

FF clear in the lead! Labour up!! What a f**king embarassment of a place.

Throwing stones in glasshouses there Nally, you come from a place were people vote DUP and SF, cleary a voting population of sectarian nutcases.
Yes and it has never been the case in the south that people voted the same way their grandfather did, simply because their grandfather did.

Sectarian bastids.

Thats not sectarian, thats just dumb.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 14, 2013, 12:54:17 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 12:50:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 14, 2013, 12:01:45 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 13, 2013, 11:47:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 13, 2013, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2013, 11:05:28 PM
New Millward Brown Poll
FG 24 (-1)
Lab 12 (+3)
FF 27 (-2 )
SF 16 (-4)
Ind 18 (+2)

FF clear in the lead! Labour up!! What a f**king embarassment of a place.

Throwing stones in glasshouses there Nally, you come from a place were people vote DUP and SF, cleary a voting population of sectarian nutcases.
Yes and it has never been the case in the south that people voted the same way their grandfather did, simply because their grandfather did.

Sectarian bastids.

Thats not sectarian, thats just dumb.
Oooh yis are all dumb down there....

Yip, as opposed to dumb and sectarian up Narth. We are dumb and nice, ye are dumb and nasty.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 01:09:47 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 14, 2013, 01:07:06 AM
You live in England. Fcuk up.

At least I'm from the Republic, born free melado  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 14, 2013, 01:17:23 AM
QuoteFF clear in the lead! Labour up!! What a f**king embarassment of a place.

It pais me to say it, but it is something of an embarassment. It seems that FG are no different than FF, or at least no different to FF kept in line by the Troika, so people feel free to exchange them. SF and the looney left just keep on spouting nonsense, regardless of the damage any of this would actually do the country. There is no sign of anyone with integrity or imagination combined with reason.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 02:09:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 14, 2013, 01:13:37 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 01:09:47 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 14, 2013, 01:07:06 AM
You live in England. Fcuk up.

At least I'm from the Republic, born free melado  ;D
Brit lover.

Yes I love you Hardstation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 02:22:51 AM
SF plan to start an Irish tonic water industry, they reckon that they can supply Ireland enough bitterness to last another 200 years.
























Could be a job in it for you Hardstation  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 09:00:45 AM
Quote from: Minder on April 13, 2013, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 10:41:17 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2013, 10:39:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
'Political party says it has the answers' shocker!

On another note, if SF is serious about peace and reconciliation, then why are they selling 'sniper at work' badges at their Ard Fheis? Classy. Seriously like, it's 2013.

get me one i'll give you the money
I was wondering what sort of person would wear it. The answer was obvious really.

It has been removed from the SF bookshop website, was available earlier today.
Not sure why, considering some of the stuff still up there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 14, 2013, 09:28:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 09:00:45 AM
Quote from: Minder on April 13, 2013, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 10:41:17 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2013, 10:39:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
'Political party says it has the answers' shocker!

On another note, if SF is serious about peace and reconciliation, then why are they selling 'sniper at work' badges at their Ard Fheis? Classy. Seriously like, it's 2013.

get me one i'll give you the money
I was wondering what sort of person would wear it. The answer was obvious really.

It has been removed from the SF bookshop website, was available earlier today.
Not sure why, considering some of the stuff still up there.

Another part of the normalisation process :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 14, 2013, 09:56:50 AM
Hmm , while I'd have no problem owning a 'sniper at work' badge ( reminder of a time and age gone by) it is in poor taste to wear one in most public events.
I'd put it in the ' offensive' category along with the poppy badge.
- I'd hope in 30 years time there won't be a similar history revision and people coerced to wear the sniper at work badge!


Mayogodhelpyou - there is no choice in the north other than duo or sf. Every other party is a spoiled or wasted vote.
Likewise Ff or fg in the south have been the only choices up until recent times.
More worryingly given ff's disastrous recent tenure snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and fg continuing the losing/useless/ineffective governance of the country- we will stumble along until the market and economy correct themselves in spite of ff/fg rather than because of them - as the driving businesses in Ireland (Dublin really) will drag the country on until its back ahead of the count.
Bank debts and actions ang crazy repressive gov policies are the only thing that's holding us back.

Sf and maybe any new party will be contenders in a generations time when parental apron atrings voting habits have been forgotten/ignored!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 14, 2013, 09:56:50 AM
Hmm , while I'd have no problem owning a 'sniper at work' badge ( reminder of a time and age gone by) it is in poor taste to wear one in most public events.
I'd put it in the ' offensive' category along with the poppy badge.
I wouldn't wear a poppy myself, but...
A sniper at work badge is glorifying the act of terrorism/war (delete as you wish).
For most people, i'd imagine wearing the poppy is simply remembering/commemorating those who lost their lives - in many cases, their relatives.

You could maybe equate the poppy and easter lily, but not a badge like this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 10:12:36 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 14, 2013, 09:56:50 AM
there is no choice in the north other than duo or sf. Every other party is a spoiled or wasted vote.
Why is every other party a spoiled or wasted vote any more than one for SF or the DUP is?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 10:20:46 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 14, 2013, 09:56:50 AM
Hmm , while I'd have no problem owning a 'sniper at work' badge ( reminder of a time and age gone by) it is in poor taste to wear one in most public events.
I'd put it in the ' offensive' category along with the poppy badge.
- I'd hope in 30 years time there won't be a similar history revision and people coerced to wear the sniper at work badge!


Mayogodhelpyou - there is no choice in the north other than duo or sf. Every other party is a spoiled or wasted vote.
Likewise Ff or fg in the south have been the only choices up until recent times.
More worryingly given ff's disastrous recent tenure snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and fg continuing the losing/useless/ineffective governance of the country- we will stumble along until the market and economy correct themselves in spite of ff/fg rather than because of them - as the driving businesses in Ireland (Dublin really) will drag the country on until its back ahead of the count.
Bank debts and actions ang crazy repressive gov policies are the only thing that's holding us back.

Sf and maybe any new party will be contenders in a generations time when parental apron atrings voting habits have been forgotten/ignored!

Ireland needs 4 new parties, the Liberal Secularist Party, the Conservative Secularist Party, the Social Democratic Secularist Party and the Socialist Secularist Party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
watched both TV sessions yesterday and find myself agreeing with maguire :o the shinners could have dressed up a bit for the telly especially the afternoon session i was looking for pyjamas (john o dowd was immaculate). it all sounded good but down the ranks the party is very lightweight, and whats wrong with Michelle oneill? she talks like an Uzi machine pistol, way too fast. I'm trying to listen and I'm thinking 'subtitles'. Mary Lou was good, pearse still sounds tired. Tobin? well he looked a little uncomfortable perhaps his difference is making him feel a little out of tune? (but I'm glad hes not a sheep) Marty held his own. as for Gerry emmm.. he didn't say anything wrong infact he was (for Gerry) quite aggressive. but what he should have realised is that the time he was speaking there was a massive protest in Dublin by people sharing alot of his views and he should have made hay when the sun shines. he should have lifted the podium and smashed it on the floor and gave the gimp kenny his marching orders "gather up your shit and get to fuk out!" instead it was bland and tame and unfortunately forgettable. in the same situation with the wind at his back Ian paisley would have had his crowd swinging off the rafters they'd have marched straight out of mayo to the dail getting bigger by the day. back of the net! also the punchlines/soundbites in Irish just don't work.
everything that i heard sounded OK. as for the impact of 3hrs of sinn fein on the telly toward floating voters? I'd say zero. it was bland and smug. people are pissed off and very angry the energy is there to be harnessed.. we need tub thumpers not tree huggers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
watched both TV sessions yesterday and find myself agreeing with maguire :o the shinners could have dressed up a bit for the telly especially the afternoon session i was looking for pyjamas (john o dowd was immaculate). it all sounded good but down the ranks the party is very lightweight, and whats wrong with Michelle oneill? she talks like an Uzi machine pistol, way too fast. I'm trying to listen and I'm thinking 'subtitles'. Mary Lou was good, pearse still sounds tired. Tobin? well he looked a little uncomfortable perhaps his difference is making him feel a little out of tune? (but I'm glad hes not a sheep) Marty held his own. as for Gerry emmm.. he didn't say anything wrong infact he was (for Gerry) quite aggressive. but what he should have realised is that the time he was speaking there was a massive protest in Dublin by people sharing alot of his views and he should have made hay when the sun shines. he should have lifted the podium and smashed it on the floor and gave the gimp kenny his marching orders "gather up your shit and get to fuk out!" instead it was bland and tame and unfortunately forgettable. in the same situation with the wind at his back Ian paisley would have had his crowd swinging off the rafters they'd have marched straight out of mayo to the dail getting bigger by the day. back of the net! also the punchlines/soundbites in Irish just don't work.
everything that i heard sounded OK. as for the impact of 3hrs of sinn fein on the telly toward floating voters? I'd say zero. it was bland and smug. people are pissed off and very angry the energy is there to be harnessed.. we need tub thumpers not tree huggers

Unlikely, the last time Ulster based Unionists came to Mayo, they experienced the Mayo invention - the Boycott. They left with their tails between their legs.

We don't need Shinners in Mayo, the defeat of the Vikings in Clew Bay by Mayo clans, the Connacht (Irish Republic) Republic,  Michael Davitt, and the Boycott, the Irish Free State Army seaborne landing in Clew Bay to drive the traitors from Connacht soil, all show that we are the true heirs of Irish resistance.


Hardly suprising that Sinn Feiners cannot dress themselves let alone run a country.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 11:44:49 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
watched both TV sessions yesterday and find myself agreeing with maguire :o the shinners could have dressed up a bit for the telly especially the afternoon session i was looking for pyjamas (john o dowd was immaculate). it all sounded good but down the ranks the party is very lightweight, and whats wrong with Michelle oneill? she talks like an Uzi machine pistol, way too fast. I'm trying to listen and I'm thinking 'subtitles'. Mary Lou was good, pearse still sounds tired. Tobin? well he looked a little uncomfortable perhaps his difference is making him feel a little out of tune? (but I'm glad hes not a sheep) Marty held his own. as for Gerry emmm.. he didn't say anything wrong infact he was (for Gerry) quite aggressive. but what he should have realised is that the time he was speaking there was a massive protest in Dublin by people sharing alot of his views and he should have made hay when the sun shines. he should have lifted the podium and smashed it on the floor and gave the gimp kenny his marching orders "gather up your shit and get to fuk out!" instead it was bland and tame and unfortunately forgettable. in the same situation with the wind at his back Ian paisley would have had his crowd swinging off the rafters they'd have marched straight out of mayo to the dail getting bigger by the day. back of the net! also the punchlines/soundbites in Irish just don't work.
everything that i heard sounded OK. as for the impact of 3hrs of sinn fein on the telly toward floating voters? I'd say zero. it was bland and smug. people are pissed off and very angry the energy is there to be harnessed.. we need tub thumpers not tree huggers

Unlikely, the last time Ulster based Unionists came to Mayo, they experienced the Mayo invention - the Boycott. They left with their tails between their legs.

We don't need Shinners in Mayo, the defeat of the Vikings in Clew Bay by Mayo clans, the Connacht (Irish Republic) Republic,  Michael Davitt, and the Boycott, the Irish Free State Army seaborne landing in Clew Bay to drive the traitors from Connacht soil, all show that we are the true heirs of Irish resistance.


Hardly suprising that Sinn Feiners cannot dress themselves let alone run a country.
eh? the vikings arrived in a row boat and it took the whole of mayo to beat them (was there a replay?) when they left they took all your good looking women. since then the gimp gene has prevailed
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
he should have lifted the podium and smashed it on the floor and gave the gimp kenny his marching orders "gather up your shit and get to fuk out!"
Ah yes, democracy Shinner style!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
the shinners could have dressed up a bit for the telly especially the afternoon session i was looking for pyjamas (john o dowd was immaculate). it all sounded good but down the ranks the party is very lightweight, and whats wrong with Michelle oneill?
I think you need to get a room!

As for what's wrong with O'Neill? It's simple - she has been promoted way beyond her capability.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 14, 2013, 12:45:05 PM
One of the fellas in work was telling me Michelle O'Neill was visiting dairy farmers somewhere and was asking them about the long hours they work etc. and said "well at least you can get a lie in at the weekend"! ??? The cows on that farm must stop for the weekend!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 14, 2013, 02:34:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
'Political party says it has the answers' shocker!

On another note, if SF is serious about peace and reconciliation, then why are they selling 'sniper at work' badges at their Ard Fheis? Classy. Seriously like, it's 2013.

I presume it's part of the "reaching out to unionists" programme that's the major plank of SF's drive to a united Ireland, according to Gerry Adams on This Week an hour ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 14, 2013, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 10:20:46 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 14, 2013, 09:56:50 AM
Hmm , while I'd have no problem owning a 'sniper at work' badge ( reminder of a time and age gone by) it is in poor taste to wear one in most public events.
I'd put it in the ' offensive' category along with the poppy badge.
- I'd hope in 30 years time there won't be a similar history revision and people coerced to wear the sniper at work badge!


Mayogodhelpyou - there is no choice in the north other than duo or sf. Every other party is a spoiled or wasted vote.
Likewise Ff or fg in the south have been the only choices up until recent times.
More worryingly given ff's disastrous recent tenure snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and fg continuing the losing/useless/ineffective governance of the country- we will stumble along until the market and economy correct themselves in spite of ff/fg rather than because of them - as the driving businesses in Ireland (Dublin really) will drag the country on until its back ahead of the count.
Bank debts and actions ang crazy repressive gov policies are the only thing that's holding us back.

Sf and maybe any new party will be contenders in a generations time when parental apron atrings voting habits have been forgotten/ignored!

Ireland needs 4 new parties, the Liberal Secularist Party, the Conservative Secularist Party, the Social Democratic Secularist Party and the Socialist Secularist Party.

Sorry- I don't get your joke....

Unless you think Ireland is the only secular place in the world and are being ironic?

The present and prev gov are me Fein capitalist fascists.
We need a revolution party that has a 80% capitalist and 20% communist/socialist mix.

Don't say sf - that communist ideology was jettisoned decades ago!



As for mayo resistance - donal Vaughan would be the template.... Great at looking the part but can't defend and falls apart when needed!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 14, 2013, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 14, 2013, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 10:20:46 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 14, 2013, 09:56:50 AM
Hmm , while I'd have no problem owning a 'sniper at work' badge ( reminder of a time and age gone by) it is in poor taste to wear one in most public events.
I'd put it in the ' offensive' category along with the poppy badge.
- I'd hope in 30 years time there won't be a similar history revision and people coerced to wear the sniper at work badge!


Mayogodhelpyou - there is no choice in the north other than duo or sf. Every other party is a spoiled or wasted vote.
Likewise Ff or fg in the south have been the only choices up until recent times.
More worryingly given ff's disastrous recent tenure snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and fg continuing the losing/useless/ineffective governance of the country- we will stumble along until the market and economy correct themselves in spite of ff/fg rather than because of them - as the driving businesses in Ireland (Dublin really) will drag the country on until its back ahead of the count.
Bank debts and actions ang crazy repressive gov policies are the only thing that's holding us back.

Sf and maybe any new party will be contenders in a generations time when parental apron atrings voting habits have been forgotten/ignored!

Ireland needs 4 new parties, the Liberal Secularist Party, the Conservative Secularist Party, the Social Democratic Secularist Party and the Socialist Secularist Party.

Sorry- I don't get your joke....

Unless you think Ireland is the only secular place in the world and are being ironic?

The present and prev gov are me Fein capitalist fascists.
We need a revolution party that has a 80% capitalist and 20% communist/socialist mix.

Don't say sf - that communist ideology was jettisoned decades ago!



As for mayo resistance - donal Vaughan would be the template.... Great at looking the part but can't defend and falls apart when needed!!

We need a revolution party with a 80% capitalist and 20% communist mix???

Not very revolutionary Lynchboy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 14, 2013, 09:36:08 PM
it is actually- in comparison to the status quo
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
he should have lifted the podium and smashed it on the floor and gave the gimp kenny his marching orders "gather up your shit and get to fuk out!"
Ah yes, democracy Shinner style!
at least they got the lighting right
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 11:32:40 PM
ffs gerrys just been on the week in politics, beautiful shirt and tie and nice jacket... camera rolls back and hes wearing faded jeans outta dunnes. sweet jez does nobody tell him. it reminds me of a two ronnies sketch where the camera rolls back from the well dressed newsreader and hes wearing black stockings and suspenders under the table.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 15, 2013, 02:39:55 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
he should have lifted the podium and smashed it on the floor and gave the gimp kenny his marching orders "gather up your shit and get to fuk out!"
Ah yes, democracy Shinner style!

They haven't a deomocratic bone in their bodies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2013, 12:34:17 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 15, 2013, 02:39:55 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
he should have lifted the podium and smashed it on the floor and gave the gimp kenny his marching orders "gather up your shit and get to fuk out!"
Ah yes, democracy Shinner style!

They haven't a deomocratic bone in their bodies.
we dont know if they do or dont. it is a puppet government in the north, and if they were not democratic, then they would fit in well with fg and ff in the dail !
then again I dont have faith in any party, just think there are a couple of dozen decent politicians in the dail. Barely enough to make up a govenment between them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 15, 2013, 01:16:09 PM
 This could also apply the the lovers of Collins or Dev.

know, I know - one shouldn't keep beating out the same old tune on a drum. But I've just heard  a short bit of The Nolan Show and consistency has elbowed its way once more to the front of my thoughts.


William Crawley (presenting in place of Stephen Nolan) had Gerry Kelly and Jeffrey Donaldson on, and William queried Gerry  about the fact that some delegates at the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis were wearing badges saying 'Sniper at work' .  Gerry's response was that he hadn't seen them, that he wouldn't wear one himself, and that the media seemed to be very interested in this matter while rather less focused on unionist attitudes to commemoration of the Ulster Covenant,   Larne gun-running and related events. Jeffrey not surprisingly disagreed. He said it showed that there were still unreconstructed elements within republicanism intent on "rewriting history...It is wrong to glorify those who took life during the Troubles".


On the face of it, a credible stance. But then (as I suspect Gerry Kelly began to say with five seconds in which to say it), there's this old consistency thing. If it's glorifying the taking of human life to wear a badge with 'Sniper at work', what is it when you devote most of a year to men who threatened force and smuggled in guns under the benign gaze of the RIC in the early part of the last century?  If it's wrong to glorify (such a big word for a badge) republicans who took life during the Troubles, it must surely be equally wrong to glorify members of the UDR by constructing monuments to them in Lisburn, for example. Or to glorify the British Army which shot down fourteen innocent people in Derry. Or to rejoice in victory at a battle that happened over three hundred years ago.


I accept that Jeffrey is sincere in his wish that violence shouldn't be glorified. He is, after all, a committed Christian. But either he is being

selective in his condemnation of those who engaged in violence or he has a terribly, terribly bad memory. Consistency, Jeffrey. Try it. You'll like it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on April 15, 2013, 02:02:29 PM
unionist politicians still believe that the UDR, RUC and British Army were a source of good here and will not listen to anything otherwise hence the re-writing of history comments a lot of them trot out all of the time now.
They still don't see that there was a lot of bad that came with these groups as they were never on the receiving end.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 15, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2013, 12:34:17 PM
then again I dont have faith in any party, just think there are a couple of dozen decent politicians in the dail. Barely enough to make up a govenment between them.

Sadly I think this is almost always the case in every Dáil.

The US system of the elected ones vetting and appointing someone from the field might be a better way to go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2013, 04:13:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 15, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2013, 12:34:17 PM
then again I dont have faith in any party, just think there are a couple of dozen decent politicians in the dail. Barely enough to make up a govenment between them.

Sadly I think this is almost always the case in every Dáil.

The US system of the elected ones vetting and appointing someone from the field might be a better way to go.
dont know much about the us system, but it couldnt be any worse than ours

completely agree with you on your first point
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 15, 2013, 01:16:09 PM
William Crawley (presenting in place of Stephen Nolan) had Gerry Kelly and Jeffrey Donaldson on, and William queried Gerry  about the fact that some delegates at the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis were wearing badges saying 'Sniper at work' .  Gerry's response was that he hadn't seen them, that he wouldn't wear one himself, and that the media seemed to be very interested in this matter while rather less focused on unionist attitudes to commemoration of the Ulster Covenant,   Larne gun-running and related events. Jeffrey not surprisingly disagreed. He said it showed that there were still unreconstructed elements within republicanism intent on "rewriting history...It is wrong to glorify those who took life during the Troubles".
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 15, 2013, 08:08:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 15, 2013, 01:16:09 PM
William Crawley (presenting in place of Stephen Nolan) had Gerry Kelly and Jeffrey Donaldson on, and William queried Gerry  about the fact that some delegates at the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis were wearing badges saying 'Sniper at work' .  Gerry's response was that he hadn't seen them, that he wouldn't wear one himself, and that the media seemed to be very interested in this matter while rather less focused on unionist attitudes to commemoration of the Ulster Covenant,   Larne gun-running and related events. Jeffrey not surprisingly disagreed. He said it showed that there were still unreconstructed elements within republicanism intent on "rewriting history...It is wrong to glorify those who took life during the Troubles".
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Our history,it hasn't gone away you know
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 15, 2013, 09:01:37 PM
It's really no big deal if SF are selling Sniper at Work badges, IRA mugs, SF toilet roll holders or whatever else is on sale.

But the ironyI am sure isn't lost on a lot of people, not least Mc Guinness.

Mc Guinness says in relation to the unionists -

"But the enemy of this process in many ways is not from outside. They have failed to damage the Agreement by pointless, sporadic armed actions – but instead by those within the process looking inward instead of outward – looking back instead of forward – playing safe and aiming low instead of seeking to deliver on the ambitions and aspirations of those who elect us."

Also - " "Unionist Ministers are in government with Sinn Féin because they have to be.", the inference being that SF are in government cos they "want" to be.

Meanwhile the party that is selling badges, mugs etc accuse their opponents of looking back instead of forward and inward instead of outward.

Mc Guinness is right about the unionists. But he can't have have his cake and eat it by simply saying that he wouldn't buy a badge.

Once upon a time there were promises of not an inch, not a bullet.

We all know how that ended.

Surely a few wee badges won't hurt anyone ? Or getting rid of the merchandise stand at the Ard Fheis in future ?

It shows how petty the unionists ( and SF opponents ) are being about this issue if that's all they have to cry about and to an extent the successes of SF politically.

I'd say the Sniper badges and IRA mugs will be for sale in other outlets shortly, separate from SF, in the same way that SF and the IRA separated.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 15, 2013, 09:56:59 PM
vasily zaitsev didnt have to listen to this crap, its just a badge. a wee jibe at the brits. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2013, 10:40:34 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 15, 2013, 09:01:37 PM
It's really no big deal if SF are selling Sniper at Work badges, IRA mugs, SF toilet roll holders or whatever else is on sale.

But the ironyI am sure isn't lost on a lot of people, not least Mc Guinness.

Mc Guinness says in relation to the unionists -

"But the enemy of this process in many ways is not from outside. They have failed to damage the Agreement by pointless, sporadic armed actions – but instead by those within the process looking inward instead of outward – looking back instead of forward – playing safe and aiming low instead of seeking to deliver on the ambitions and aspirations of those who elect us."

Also - " "Unionist Ministers are in government with Sinn Féin because they have to be.", the inference being that SF are in government cos they "want" to be.

Meanwhile the party that is selling badges, mugs etc accuse their opponents of looking back instead of forward and inward instead of outward.

Mc Guinness is right about the unionists. But he can't have have his cake and eat it by simply saying that he wouldn't buy a badge.

Once upon a time there were promises of not an inch, not a bullet.

We all know how that ended.

Surely a few wee badges won't hurt anyone ? Or getting rid of the merchandise stand at the Ard Fheis in future ?

It shows how petty the unionists ( and SF opponents ) are being about this issue if that's all they have to cry about and to an extent the successes of SF politically.

I'd say the Sniper badges and IRA mugs will be for sale in other outlets shortly, separate from SF, in the same way that SF and the IRA separated.
fer fux sake - sf are not the IRA.
please dont tarnish the good name of the 'RA by equating them with the shinners!
yes there are a lot of ex IRA folk and sympathisers in sf, but they are not the same thing.

not a bullet , not an inch was the motto - it ended up getting some semblence of equality and power sharing - therefore the armed struggle could be halted.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 15, 2013, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 15, 2013, 09:56:59 PM
vasily zaitsev didnt have to listen to this crap, its just a badge. a wee jibe at the brits.

Clueless clowns will never get into power in Dublin while you continue to be so profoundly ignorant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 16, 2013, 09:00:30 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 15, 2013, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 15, 2013, 09:56:59 PM
vasily zaitsev didnt have to listen to this crap, its just a badge. a wee jibe at the brits.

Clueless clowns will never get into power in Dublin while you continue to be so profoundly ignorant.


Never say never kid,big Ian said that and look what happened ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 16, 2013, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
the shinners could have dressed up a bit for the telly especially the afternoon session i was looking for pyjamas (john o dowd was immaculate). it all sounded good but down the ranks the party is very lightweight, and whats wrong with Michelle oneill?
I think you need to get a room!

As for what's wrong with O'Neill? It's simple - she has been promoted way beyond her capability.
But not as lightweight or annoying as Martina Anderson.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 16, 2013, 10:46:57 AM
Quote from: glens abu on April 15, 2013, 01:16:09 PM
This could also apply the the lovers of Collins or Dev.

know, I know - one shouldn't keep beating out the same old tune on a drum. But I've just heard  a short bit of The Nolan Show and consistency has elbowed its way once more to the front of my thoughts.


William Crawley (presenting in place of Stephen Nolan) had Gerry Kelly and Jeffrey Donaldson on, and William queried Gerry  about the fact that some delegates at the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis were wearing badges saying 'Sniper at work' .  Gerry's response was that he hadn't seen them, that he wouldn't wear one himself, and that the media seemed to be very interested in this matter while rather less focused on unionist attitudes to commemoration of the Ulster Covenant,   Larne gun-running and related events. Jeffrey not surprisingly disagreed. He said it showed that there were still unreconstructed elements within republicanism intent on "rewriting history...It is wrong to glorify those who took life during the Troubles".


On the face of it, a credible stance. But then (as I suspect Gerry Kelly began to say with five seconds in which to say it), there's this old consistency thing. If it's glorifying the taking of human life to wear a badge with 'Sniper at work', what is it when you devote most of a year to men who threatened force and smuggled in guns under the benign gaze of the RIC in the early part of the last century?  If it's wrong to glorify (such a big word for a badge) republicans who took life during the Troubles, it must surely be equally wrong to glorify members of the UDR by constructing monuments to them in Lisburn, for example. Or to glorify the British Army which shot down fourteen innocent people in Derry. Or to rejoice in victory at a battle that happened over three hundred years ago.


I accept that Jeffrey is sincere in his wish that violence shouldn't be glorified. He is, after all, a committed Christian. But either he is being

selective in his condemnation of those who engaged in violence or he has a terribly, terribly bad memory. Consistency, Jeffrey. Try it. You'll like it.
The winners get to write the history and the Unionists won in 1922 and they are winning still. Hence the only reprehensible and unjustified violence comes from the Nationalist side as it is against the state and therefore treason. This ain't going to change any time soon.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 16, 2013, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 15, 2013, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 15, 2013, 09:56:59 PM
vasily zaitsev didnt have to listen to this crap, its just a badge. a wee jibe at the brits.

Clueless clowns will never get into power in Dublin while you continue to be so profoundly ignorant.

do you know who vasily zaitsez was? i think the comparison is viable
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 16, 2013, 10:32:17 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 16, 2013, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 15, 2013, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 15, 2013, 09:56:59 PM
vasily zaitsev didnt have to listen to this crap, its just a badge. a wee jibe at the brits.

Clueless clowns will never get into power in Dublin while you continue to be so profoundly ignorant.

do you know who vasily zaitsez was? i think the comparison is viable

You just don't have a clue, do you  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 16, 2013, 11:20:52 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 16, 2013, 10:32:17 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 16, 2013, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 15, 2013, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 15, 2013, 09:56:59 PM
vasily zaitsev didnt have to listen to this crap, its just a badge. a wee jibe at the brits.

Clueless clowns will never get into power in Dublin while you continue to be so profoundly ignorant.

do you know who vasily zaitsez was? i think the comparison is viable

You just don't have a clue, do you  ::)
actually i've got plenty of clues.. as a 13year old kid i was sent out to a field at approx 1.30 in the morning to check on a cow that was about to calve. as i crept (so as not to disturb her)  toward her in the dark i was clubbed to the ground by a brit army patrol i screamed out to tell them who i was and what i was doing, that they were on my property. they kicked me until i was barely councious i must have lay in the muck for 15mins til my father came looking for me. when they heard his voice calling to me they ran away. the next morning my face was like a butchers block and i could barely walk. my parents took me to the cops they contacted the brits. guess what? i imagined the whole thing there was no patrol in the area. quote "it could have been cattle rustlers". i support sinn fein and the peace process and decomissioning and reaching out to our unionist neighbours- ive moved on. but at the time i was not in the least concerned about a few brit soldiers getting killed. i hoped they were the guys who put the boots to me.
   you mayo have got to realise the make up of sinn fein, there are scars that will not go away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 12:17:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 16, 2013, 11:20:52 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 16, 2013, 10:32:17 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 16, 2013, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 15, 2013, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 15, 2013, 09:56:59 PM
vasily zaitsev didnt have to listen to this crap, its just a badge. a wee jibe at the brits.

Clueless clowns will never get into power in Dublin while you continue to be so profoundly ignorant.

do you know who vasily zaitsez was? i think the comparison is viable

You just don't have a clue, do you  ::)
actually i've got plenty of clues.. as a 13year old kid i was sent out to a field at approx 1.30 in the morning to check on a cow that was about to calve. as i crept (so as not to disturb her)  toward her in the dark i was clubbed to the ground by a brit army patrol i screamed out to tell them who i was and what i was doing, that they were on my property. they kicked me until i was barely councious i must have lay in the muck for 15mins til my father came looking for me. when they heard his voice calling to me they ran away. the next morning my face was like a butchers block and i could barely walk. my parents took me to the cops they contacted the brits. guess what? i imagined the whole thing there was no patrol in the area. quote "it could have been cattle rustlers". i support sinn fein and the peace process and decomissioning and reaching out to our unionist neighbours- ive moved on. but at the time i was not in the least concerned about a few brit soldiers getting killed. i hoped they were the guys who put the boots to me.
   you mayo have got to realise the make up of sinn fein, there are scars that will not go away.

Again you have no clue, your trying to impress 26 county voters here, not 6 county ones. "Sniper at work" sticker is not acceptale to the Republic's electorate. Your attempts to justify it, holds no water in the Irish state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 16, 2013, 11:20:52 PM
my parents took me to the cops they contacted the brits. guess what? i imagined the whole thing there was no patrol in the area.
Well given how vivid your imagination is now, and considering you were 13 at the time...  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:10:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 12:17:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 16, 2013, 11:20:52 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 16, 2013, 10:32:17 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 16, 2013, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 15, 2013, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 15, 2013, 09:56:59 PM
vasily zaitsev didnt have to listen to this crap, its just a badge. a wee jibe at the brits.

Clueless clowns will never get into power in Dublin while you continue to be so profoundly ignorant.

do you know who vasily zaitsez was? i think the comparison is viable

You just don't have a clue, do you  ::)
actually i've got plenty of clues.. as a 13year old kid i was sent out to a field at approx 1.30 in the morning to check on a cow that was about to calve. as i crept (so as not to disturb her)  toward her in the dark i was clubbed to the ground by a brit army patrol i screamed out to tell them who i was and what i was doing, that they were on my property. they kicked me until i was barely councious i must have lay in the muck for 15mins til my father came looking for me. when they heard his voice calling to me they ran away. the next morning my face was like a butchers block and i could barely walk. my parents took me to the cops they contacted the brits. guess what? i imagined the whole thing there was no patrol in the area. quote "it could have been cattle rustlers". i support sinn fein and the peace process and decomissioning and reaching out to our unionist neighbours- ive moved on. but at the time i was not in the least concerned about a few brit soldiers getting killed. i hoped they were the guys who put the boots to me.
   you mayo have got to realise the make up of sinn fein, there are scars that will not go away.

Again you have no clue, your trying to impress 26 county voters here, not 6 county ones. "Sniper at work" sticker is not acceptale to the Republic's electorate. Your attempts to justify it, holds no water in the Irish state.
given that they are impressed by enda kenny and eamon gilmore.. i dont own a badge but i wouldnt take acception to someone who choses to own one or wear one on special occasions. no more than i'd express an opinion on a british soldier who likes to parade his medal for shooting civilians in derry on bloody sunday. they did receive medals
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 18, 2013, 05:43:18 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 12:17:59 AM
Again you have no clue, your trying to impress 26 county voters here, not 6 county ones. "Sniper at work" sticker is not acceptale to the Republic's electorate. Your attempts to justify it, holds no water in the Irish state.
actually why does he or sf etc have to 'impress' anyone in the south?

imo the reason why your attitude has been programmed as such is due to the media propoganda down the years eminating from the north.
everything was controlled by the state and thus all reporting was critically subjective, with huge bias on the unionist/loyalist/jaffa side.
Misrepresentation of facts and actual accounts was commonplace.
So the attitude from anyone reading/hearing the media would be that the taigs were a violent lot, always on the go against the poor gentlefolk of the orange establishment.

it was not reflective of the reality.

If it was, you and many more would have sympathy for the persecuted folk that did exist in the north.
Lawnseed's account is one of many. Yes people fought back, but they hadnt much choice. The SDLP's heart was inthe right place, but years of trying to persuede the establishment that it was a systematically bullying and oppressive aggressive violator didnt work.
Doesnt correct the wrongs that were done but thats the reason.

If the southern people had acces to unbiased media accounts, then there would be a more tolerant attitude and a better bond and togetherness of the Irish people.

however now, the only way that this will be achieved is through an economic carrot and incentive - even the eventual referrendum yes vote in the north for reunification wont matter without the economy being ripe for this.

but for now, have a think as to why your mindset is conditioned, I believe you may find there is merit in what I say - if you open your mind a bit!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!

Why do you have to visit the shop in person to form an opinion on 'Sniper at work' badges being sold by a political party that claims to be pursuing it's objectives through only peaceful means?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!

Why do you have to visit the shop in person to form an opinion on 'Sniper at work' badges being sold by a political party that claims to be pursuing it's objectives through only peaceful means?
Claims to be?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 18, 2013, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.
mmmm seems the facts piss Apples off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 18, 2013, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!

Why do you have to visit the shop in person to form an opinion on 'Sniper at work' badges being sold by a political party that claims to be pursuing it's objectives through only peaceful means?
Claims to be?

Well if Lawnseed's aggression towards the Republic to go by, they are nothing but hollow claims.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 18, 2013, 09:56:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 18, 2013, 05:43:18 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 12:17:59 AM
Again you have no clue, your trying to impress 26 county voters here, not 6 county ones. "Sniper at work" sticker is not acceptale to the Republic's electorate. Your attempts to justify it, holds no water in the Irish state.
actually why does he or sf etc have to 'impress' anyone in the south?

imo the reason why your attitude has been programmed as such is due to the media propoganda down the years eminating from the north.
everything was controlled by the state and thus all reporting was critically subjective, with huge bias on the unionist/loyalist/jaffa side.
Misrepresentation of facts and actual accounts was commonplace.
So the attitude from anyone reading/hearing the media would be that the taigs were a violent lot, always on the go against the poor gentlefolk of the orange establishment.

it was not reflective of the reality.

If it was, you and many more would have sympathy for the persecuted folk that did exist in the north.
Lawnseed's account is one of many. Yes people fought back, but they hadnt much choice. The SDLP's heart was inthe right place, but years of trying to persuede the establishment that it was a systematically bullying and oppressive aggressive violator didnt work.
Doesnt correct the wrongs that were done but thats the reason.

If the southern people had acces to unbiased media accounts, then there would be a more tolerant attitude and a better bond and togetherness of the Irish people.

however now, the only way that this will be achieved is through an economic carrot and incentive - even the eventual referrendum yes vote in the north for reunification wont matter without the economy being ripe for this.

but for now, have a think as to why your mindset is conditioned, I believe you may find there is merit in what I say - if you open your mind a bit!

As opposed to Northern folk being conditioned to accept the abnormal as normal and the unacceptable as being acceptable. I am Western not Southern. My state is called Ireland not Southern Ireland. I am from the West.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 18, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.

Tube
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 10:49:56 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 18, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.

Tube
For stating a fact? It wasn't an opinion.
But you stay classy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!

Why do you have to visit the shop in person to form an opinion on 'Sniper at work' badges being sold by a political party that claims to be pursuing it's objectives through only peaceful means?
Claims to be?

Yes, that is their claim isn't it? I believe they are, in the main, sticking to that. But selling merchandise such as the above hardly does much to distance themselves from violent means, or to reassure those who doubt their motives...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 11:00:55 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!

Why do you have to visit the shop in person to form an opinion on 'Sniper at work' badges being sold by a political party that claims to be pursuing it's objectives through only peaceful means?
Claims to be?

Yes, that is their claim isn't it? I believe they are, in the main, sticking to that. But selling merchandise such as the above hardly does much to distance themselves from violent means, or to reassure those who doubt their motives...
In the main?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 18, 2013, 11:01:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 10:49:56 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 18, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com link=topic=15128.msg1222194#msg1222194quote author=Maguire01 link=topic=15128.msg1222606#msg1222606 date=1366321796]
Quote from: theticklemister on April 18, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed link=topic=15128.msg1222quote author=Tubberman link=topic=15128.msg1222609#msg1222609 date=1366322106]
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!

Why do you have to visit the shop in person to form an opinion on 'Sniper at work' badges being sold by a political party that claims to be pursuing it's objectives through only peaceful means?
Claims to be?

Yes, that is their claim isn't it? I believe they are, in the main, sticking to that. But selling merchandise such as the above hardly does much to distance themselves from violent means, or to reassure those who doubt their motives...
158#msg1222158 date=1366223708]
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.

Tube
For stating a fact? It wasn't an opinion.
But you stay classy.
date=1366230630]
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.

Tube
[/quote]
For stating a fact? It wasn't an opinion.
But you stay classy.
[/quote]

Thats the way I roll.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 18, 2013, 11:27:07 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 18, 2013, 09:56:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 18, 2013, 05:43:18 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 12:17:59 AM
Again you have no clue, your trying to impress 26 county voters here, not 6 county ones. "Sniper at work" sticker is not acceptale to the Republic's electorate. Your attempts to justify it, holds no water in the Irish state.
actually why does he or sf etc have to 'impress' anyone in the south?

imo the reason why your attitude has been programmed as such is due to the media propoganda down the years eminating from the north.
everything was controlled by the state and thus all reporting was critically subjective, with huge bias on the unionist/loyalist/jaffa side.
Misrepresentation of facts and actual accounts was commonplace.
So the attitude from anyone reading/hearing the media would be that the taigs were a violent lot, always on the go against the poor gentlefolk of the orange establishment.

it was not reflective of the reality.

If it was, you and many more would have sympathy for the persecuted folk that did exist in the north.
Lawnseed's account is one of many. Yes people fought back, but they hadnt much choice. The SDLP's heart was inthe right place, but years of trying to persuede the establishment that it was a systematically bullying and oppressive aggressive violator didnt work.
Doesnt correct the wrongs that were done but thats the reason.

If the southern people had acces to unbiased media accounts, then there would be a more tolerant attitude and a better bond and togetherness of the Irish people.

however now, the only way that this will be achieved is through an economic carrot and incentive - even the eventual referrendum yes vote in the north for reunification wont matter without the economy being ripe for this.

but for now, have a think as to why your mindset is conditioned, I believe you may find there is merit in what I say - if you open your mind a bit!

As opposed to Northern folk being conditioned to accept the abnormal as normal and the unacceptable as being acceptable. I am Western not Southern. My state is called Ireland not Southern Ireland. I am from the West.
So I put it to you , that if your mind had not been preconditioned by the anti nationalist propaganda over the war years, you would look upon the northern contingent in much the same manner as you would/do the Munster folk ( ie with some semblence of jealousy but equal).
My state is Ireland. I have lived in it most of my life. I have lived in the south most of my life.
In the great advertising worded of the horrendous irish independent - before you make up your mind, open it.
Try it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 19, 2013, 12:29:39 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 18, 2013, 11:27:07 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 18, 2013, 09:56:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 18, 2013, 05:43:18 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 12:17:59 AM
Again you have no clue, your trying to impress 26 county voters here, not 6 county ones. "Sniper at work" sticker is not acceptale to the Republic's electorate. Your attempts to justify it, holds no water in the Irish state.
actually why does he or sf etc have to 'impress' anyone in the south?

imo the reason why your attitude has been programmed as such is due to the media propoganda down the years eminating from the north.
everything was controlled by the state and thus all reporting was critically subjective, with huge bias on the unionist/loyalist/jaffa side.
Misrepresentation of facts and actual accounts was commonplace.
So the attitude from anyone reading/hearing the media would be that the taigs were a violent lot, always on the go against the poor gentlefolk of the orange establishment.

it was not reflective of the reality.

If it was, you and many more would have sympathy for the persecuted folk that did exist in the north.
Lawnseed's account is one of many. Yes people fought back, but they hadnt much choice. The SDLP's heart was inthe right place, but years of trying to persuede the establishment that it was a systematically bullying and oppressive aggressive violator didnt work.
Doesnt correct the wrongs that were done but thats the reason.

If the southern people had acces to unbiased media accounts, then there would be a more tolerant attitude and a better bond and togetherness of the Irish people.

however now, the only way that this will be achieved is through an economic carrot and incentive - even the eventual referrendum yes vote in the north for reunification wont matter without the economy being ripe for this.

but for now, have a think as to why your mindset is conditioned, I believe you may find there is merit in what I say - if you open your mind a bit!

As opposed to Northern folk being conditioned to accept the abnormal as normal and the unacceptable as being acceptable. I am Western not Southern. My state is called Ireland not Southern Ireland. I am from the West.
So I put it to you , that if your mind had not been preconditioned by the anti nationalist propaganda over the war years, you would look upon the northern contingent in much the same manner as you would/do the Munster folk ( ie with some semblence of jealousy but equal).
My state is Ireland. I have lived in it most of my life. I have lived in the south most of my life.
In the great advertising worded of the horrendous irish independent - before you make up your mind, open it.
Try it.

Jealousy  ??? not a bit of it, rather the opposite, I love being a Connachtman.

I consider all of Ireland's counties and provinces being Irish and in Ireland (the nation and the island). However I am proud of Ireland the state/independent country and see Northern nationatlists as the new hostile from within, replacing Unionists who now show our state and head of state some respect. I am proud of the state I was born into and the more the likes of lawnseed attack my country the more I will see him not of that country. In fact in my younger years I was very biased in favour of the nationalist community up North. That opinion was largerly due to the conditioning of growing up in the Republic, so I do not understand nationalist paranoia. Now I try and keep a balanced opinion of all my fellow Irishmen in the North, but I let their actions determine my opinion, the fleg wavers of East Belfast and the Shinner we are going to takeover my state and f**k it up brigade on this board make them open to having the piss ripped out of them at every opportunity.

I am very proud of the Republic and find those who show my country the least respect are those who claim to be of the same nation, often taking up passports yet add nothing but hate towards us. You hear alot from northern nationalists here and elsewhere about the abuse they got when in the 26, well if the drunken rants I have had to put up with from 6 county nationalists about "traitor this, traitor that" is anything to go by, they were looking for it.

By the way most of the negativity created by you northern shinners on here, is largely undone everyday by friends from the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 19, 2013, 12:31:38 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 18, 2013, 11:01:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 10:49:56 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 18, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com link=topic=15128.msg1222194#msg1222194quote author=Maguire01 link=topic=15128.msg1222606#msg1222606 date=1366321796]
Quote from: theticklemister on April 18, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed link=topic=15128.msg1222quote author=Tubberman link=topic=15128.msg1222609#msg1222609 date=1366322106]
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!

Why do you have to visit the shop in person to form an opinion on 'Sniper at work' badges being sold by a political party that claims to be pursuing it's objectives through only peaceful means?
Claims to be?

Yes, that is their claim isn't it? I believe they are, in the main, sticking to that. But selling merchandise such as the above hardly does much to distance themselves from violent means, or to reassure those who doubt their motives...
158#msg1222158 date=1366223708]
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.

Tube
For stating a fact? It wasn't an opinion.
But you stay classy.
date=1366230630]
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.

Tube
For stating a fact? It wasn't an opinion.
But you stay classy.
[/quote]

Thats the way I roll.
[/quote]

You remember it is called Ireland lad  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 01:09:25 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 19, 2013, 12:31:38 AM
You remember it is called Ireland lad  ;)

Only because they made a complete incompetent hames of the alteration of the Constitution after the Amendments to Articles 2 & 3 (since they had defined 'Ireland' as 32 Counties, not 26, never 26); 'twas by no conscious design, remember that. Pure typical incompetence for the unconscionable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 01:25:08 AM
QuoteOnly because they made a complete incompetent hames of the alteration of the Constitution after the Amendments to Articles 2 & 3 (since they had defined 'Ireland' as 32 Counties, not 26, never 26); 'twas by no conscious design, remember that. Pure typical incompetence for the unconscionable.

Spot on., it is a loose end. It is surprising that the matter did not arise 15 years ago though.

Since the Irish nation is stated to live in the 32 Counties, this defines Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 01:46:32 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 01:25:08 AM
Since the Irish nation is stated to live in the 32 Counties, this defines Ireland.

Yep, anyone who trumpets about 'Ireland' being the 26 counties (only) might as well be saying "my leaders were so incredibly (constitutionally) incompetent, but I'm so proud of their crass and feckless ineptitude (and God bless the Germans for their bountiful munificence)!"  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 08:12:58 AM
Right, it seems there is a bit of confusion here.

My initial response was to the following:
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
There is no state of Ireland
There is in fact a state of Ireland. It's in black and white, in the Constitution. It's not my opinion - and i'm not 'trumpeting' anything - it's fact. Any arguments over how amendments to Articles 2 and 3 were handled do not alter the fact that there is a state of Ireland.

As for the last 3 posts, it seems to me that Fear ón Srath Bán and armaghniac don't understand the difference between 'nation' and 'state'. The differentiation was always in Articles 2 and 3. Prior to 1999, Article 2 referred to the national territory (i.e. the nation) consisting of the whole island, but Article 3 noted the limitations in jurisdiction of the government to the state.

Just to reiterate, this is not my opinion, nor am I 'trumpeting' - it's just the reality.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 08:12:58 AM
There is in fact a state of Ireland. It's in black and white, in the Constitution...

And if you think that just because the state of 'Ireland' is so arrogantly claimed to be just the 26 counties in the Irish Constitution then that's how the world sees it, you're delusional.

Like it or not, it will always be (erroneously, yet again) the 'Republic of Ireland' or more correctly the 'Irish Republic'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 10:12:36 AM
This land was undemocratically partitioned by an occupying country so all the drivel that has taken place on this thread in the last few pages does not matter one iota to me about state and nation.

I cant believe the arrogance and hatred that has gone on here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 10:25:07 AM
Mayogodhelpyou - with the greatest respect, your own retort there is as full of the paranoia you attest to the six county folk.
Hate?
The northern nationalists hate southerners?
That's crazy!
Jealousy - yes!
I live and work in Dublin and all I hear from the west and Munster is they hate Dublin and the dubs and that Dublin are always getting the jobs, they aren't true Irishmen because they are from inside the pale - does that remind you of anything ( or anyone)!!!

Not saying that you say this about Dublin- but I hear it v often ( from highly educated people in provincial parts of the organisation I work in)!

Also you tar nationalists with the same brush as unionist/loyalists - a byproduct of and a victory for the media propaganda machine! There is a chasm of difference in outlook towards progression and inclusiveness of these groups.

I am no shinner by the way, proving your flawed over presumptuousness.

You may not like the shinners but they as a political party are equally as inept as fg and ff so I don't know how you can claim they'd ruin the country any more than fg are doing and ff did!

I will say no more on it, but I hope you now can see that you mental pre-conditioning is badly skewing your objectivity!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 10:29:35 AM
So the current whinge is about a silly pin.
Crass yes, silly yes , but what's the big deal.


It doesn't matter if people wear a unionist jack and tricolor pin , there are swathes of unionists/loyalists that will not accept any joint consent and attempts for inclusion or equality etc.
They want the status quo to remain and see all inclusion and joint initiatives as an erosion of this on the way to Irish reunification.
They are correct I may add. But they may as well get inside the tent before it starts raining!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 10:38:32 AM
QuoteAs for the last 3 posts, it seems to me that Fear ón Srath Bán and armaghniac don't understand the difference between 'nation' and 'state'. The differentiation was always in Articles 2 and 3. Prior to 1999, Article 2 referred to the national territory (i.e. the nation) consisting of the whole island, but Article 3 noted the limitations in jurisdiction of the government to the state.

Just to reiterate, this is not my opinion, nor am I 'trumpeting' - it's just the reality.

Not trumpeting, but contriving to be patronising. Of course I understand the difference between the nation and State.
I'm not rowing into this debate, except to say that the constitution did envisage that the State would be called Ireland internationally, but the usage of diminishing the Irishness of the 6 counties was not intended. As I said, I am very surprised that some attention was not paid to this in the GFA when surely some adjustments could have been made. 

AS for mayogodhelpus it is a bit like shitstirring pointing that Rory O'Carroll or Bryan Cullan don't actually come from the local authority called Dublin. So what?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 10:39:50 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 08:12:58 AM
There is in fact a state of Ireland. It's in black and white, in the Constitution...

And if you think that just because the state of 'Ireland' is so arrogantly claimed to be just the 26 counties in the Irish Constitution then that's how the world sees it, you're delusional.

Like it or not, it will always be (erroneously, yet again) the 'Republic of Ireland' or more correctly the 'Irish Republic'.
Well that's the way the United Nations and the European Union sees it. We can get all emotional about it if you want. But the 'state' is the 26 counties and it's called Ireland. That's the constitutional and legal reality.

And again, i'm not talking about the nation, but the state. If the 'state' was the 32 counties, then the 6 counties would be ruled from Dublin and not London.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 10:44:05 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 10:39:50 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 08:12:58 AM
There is in fact a state of Ireland. It's in black and white, in the Constitution...

And if you think that just because the state of 'Ireland' is so arrogantly claimed to be just the 26 counties in the Irish Constitution then that's how the world sees it, you're delusional.

Like it or not, it will always be (erroneously, yet again) the 'Republic of Ireland' or more correctly the 'Irish Republic'.
Well that's the way the United Nations and the European Union sees it. We can get all emotional about it if you want. But the 'state' is the 26 counties and it's called Ireland. That's the constitutional and legal reality.

And again, i'm not talking about the nation, but the state. If the 'state' was the 32 counties, then the 6 counties would be ruled from Dublin and not London.

Do ye think this is legal?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 10:45:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 10:38:32 AM
QuoteAs for the last 3 posts, it seems to me that Fear ón Srath Bán and armaghniac don't understand the difference between 'nation' and 'state'. The differentiation was always in Articles 2 and 3. Prior to 1999, Article 2 referred to the national territory (i.e. the nation) consisting of the whole island, but Article 3 noted the limitations in jurisdiction of the government to the state.

Just to reiterate, this is not my opinion, nor am I 'trumpeting' - it's just the reality.

Not trumpeting, but contriving to be patronising. Of course I understand the difference between the nation and State.
I'm not rowing into this debate, except to say that the constitution did envisage that the State would be called Ireland internationally, but the usage of diminishing the Irishness of the 6 counties was not intended. As I said, I am very surprised that some attention was not paid to this in the GFA when surely some adjustments could have been made. 
Patronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation. And there's not much point in 'rowing into the debate', because it's about fact, not opinion. And the facts are clear.

On the point of the GFA, what would your solution have been? To change the reference in Article 4 to the Republic of Ireland? The south?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 10:46:01 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 10:44:05 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 10:39:50 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 08:12:58 AM
There is in fact a state of Ireland. It's in black and white, in the Constitution...

And if you think that just because the state of 'Ireland' is so arrogantly claimed to be just the 26 counties in the Irish Constitution then that's how the world sees it, you're delusional.

Like it or not, it will always be (erroneously, yet again) the 'Republic of Ireland' or more correctly the 'Irish Republic'.
Well that's the way the United Nations and the European Union sees it. We can get all emotional about it if you want. But the 'state' is the 26 counties and it's called Ireland. That's the constitutional and legal reality.

And again, i'm not talking about the nation, but the state. If the 'state' was the 32 counties, then the 6 counties would be ruled from Dublin and not London.

Do ye think this is legal?
What specifically are you referring to?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 10:48:38 AM
The two juristictions here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 19, 2013, 10:58:37 AM
I remember reading an obituary to RB McDowell where it referred to his belief that there was no separate Irish identity, that after a thousand-plus years of integration of some description, 'Ireland' did not exist independently of Britain. It's a powerful idea if applied correctly - just ask any Scot and thank God that we're surrounded by water - and it's because of such a school of thought exists, bolstered as it always has been by overwhelming numbers and the threat of violence, that it was very important that the 26 county state laid claim to the concept of 'Ireland' as a political entity. Would Seamus Heaney have felt able to write that his passport was green if the 26 county state had maintained a wish-washy insistence that it was only partially Ireland rather than defiantly stating it to all and sundry? It's complicated, but it's precisely because it's complicated that I think it was, and still is, important for us to stake a claim to the notion of Ireland as a baseline for the ongoing debate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:01:09 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 10:48:38 AM
The two juristictions here
Of course it's legal.

The rights and wrongs of partition is another matter, but the legality is clear on the jurisdictions.

If the Dublin government attempted to tax residents in the 6 counties, what way do you thing the courts would rule?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 11:13:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 10:39:50 AM
We can get all emotional about it if you want...

Emotional? Nah, I've better things to be getting emotional about than what a few inveterate partitionists have cobbled together.  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.

Pre-1999, Articles 2 and 3 made the claim that the whole island formed one 'national territory'. It's a moot point therefore, whether 'national territory' as envisaged constituted the 'state':


Article 2

    The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.

Article 3

    Pending the re-integration of the national territory, and without prejudice to the right of the parliament and government established by this constitution to exercise jurisdiction over the whole territory, the laws enacted by the parliament shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws of Saorstat Éireann[3] and the like extra-territorial effect.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:29:22 AM
As you can see above, the State chose, without prejudice, to restrict its laws at present to the 26 counties. It was a 32 county State that chose to restrict itself for the present.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:37:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:29:22 AM
As you can see above, the State chose, without prejudice, to restrict its laws at present to the 26 counties. It was a 32 county State that chose to restrict itself for the present.
It didn't have a choice - the state didn't have sovereignty over the 6 counties. A state is limited by its sovereignty. Therefore there wasn't a 32 county state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:39:36 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.

Pre-1999, Articles 2 and 3 made the claim that the whole island formed one 'national territory'. It's a moot point therefore, whether 'national territory' as envisaged constituted the 'state':


Article 2

    The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.

Article 3

    Pending the re-integration of the national territory, and without prejudice to the right of the parliament and government established by this constitution to exercise jurisdiction over the whole territory, the laws enacted by the parliament shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws of Saorstat Éireann[3] and the like extra-territorial effect.
But that's the point we were discussing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 19, 2013, 11:42:59 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:39:36 AM
But that's the point we were discussing.

The 'national territory' of 32 counties equated to the 'state' in pre-1999 Articles 2 & 3. That's moot to you it seems, but not to me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.

Presently 6 counties are still under English jurisdiction , but that will eventually change.

Articles 2 &3 are a misnomer. We voted to relinquish them as they meant nothing , but it was a move we were told would assist reunification ( by showing unionist/loyalists we can be flexible and forthcoming).
It has no eventual bearing on reunification, just like articles 2&3 didn't.
Economy, system changes ( north and south - dole, welfare, medical etc) and 32 county referendum will only alter this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!

I wouldnt say that Lynchboy........

sure in my hometown everyone calls it Derry-Londonderry. Apparently its the new 'thing'. May I add that everyone calls it the UK city of culture also.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!
I wasn't arguing popular perception. I was talking about the constitutional and political reality.

And for every band listing 'Belfast, Ireland', I can show you another listing 'Belfast, UK'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 04:04:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!

I wouldnt say that Lynchboy........

sure in my hometown everyone calls it Derry-Londonderry. Apparently its the new 'thing'. May I add that everyone calls it the UK city of culture also.
Everyone?
Really?
Think we all know this phrase is in vogue right now to generate 'inclusiveness' - and not have the unionist/loyalists rioting and trying to ruin the event!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!
I wasn't arguing popular perception. I was talking about the constitutional and political reality.

And for every band listing 'Belfast, Ireland', I can show you another listing 'Belfast, UK'.
Most people in the world see it as a single identity-Ireland!

I'd not be surprised to see 'Belfast-uk' as isn't this the current  assignation!
But my example is just to show what most of the world thinks!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 19, 2013, 05:57:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 04:04:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!

I wouldnt say that Lynchboy........

sure in my hometown everyone calls it Derry-Londonderry. Apparently its the new 'thing'. May I add that everyone calls it the UK city of culture also.
Everyone?
Really?
Think we all know this phrase is in vogue right now to generate 'inclusiveness' - and not have the unionist/loyalists rioting and trying to ruin the event!

Bloody hell lads

State = 26 counties
Nation = 32 counties
Island = 32 counties
Country = 26 &/or 32 counties

My state is not Southern Ireland, Mexico, The Irish Free State, Free State etc. it is Ireland or Eire.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 19, 2013, 05:59:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!
I wasn't arguing popular perception. I was talking about the constitutional and political reality.

And for every band listing 'Belfast, Ireland', I can show you another listing 'Belfast, UK'.
Most people in the world see it as a single identity-Ireland!

I'd not be surprised to see 'Belfast-uk' as isn't this the current  assignation!
But my example is just to show what most of the world thinks!

I hate seeing addresses on facebook as Belfast, UK or Larne, UK etc. I would rather if they said Ireland, Northern Ireland is a more palatable middle ground.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 19, 2013, 05:59:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!
I wasn't arguing popular perception. I was talking about the constitutional and political reality.

And for every band listing 'Belfast, Ireland', I can show you another listing 'Belfast, UK'.
Most people in the world see it as a single identity-Ireland!

I'd not be surprised to see 'Belfast-uk' as isn't this the current  assignation!
But my example is just to show what most of the world thinks!

I hate seeing addresses on facebook as Belfast, UK or Larne, UK etc. I would rather if they said Ireland, Northern Ireland is a more palatable middle ground.
It's their right so no one can argue with that. You or I may not like it but its their right!

The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!


I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.

Now!thats all been clarified,Tell us how much you love Dublin!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 06:58:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 04:04:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 link=topicu=15128.msg1222719#msg1222719 date=1366366786
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!

I wouldnt say that Lynchboy........

sure in my hometown everyone calls it Derry-Londonderry. Apparently its the new 'thing'. May I add that everyone calls it the UK city of culture also.
Everyone?
Really?
Think we all know this phrase is in vogue right now to generate 'inclusiveness' - and not have the unionist/loyalists rioting and trying to ruin the event!

Derry city council
All the GAA clubs in the city
Sinn Fein
SDLP
Community groups
Comhaltas Derry City branch, (dues to the county branches who opposed the move)


Derry county board also
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 07:26:57 PM
So in polite conversation between members of these organisations, the phrase ' its going to be wet and cold tonight in Derry-londonDerry'?
Etc

I am surprised. Must be a city thing as  a few miles out the road west or east it's referred to as Derry.
In Cavan they refer to the fleadh in Derry.
In Dublin , Cork, Glasgow or Luton they talk about Derry.
Maybe I've been 'lucky' with the people I've met and talked to!

Or are you using that rapier like 'wit' again?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 19, 2013, 07:36:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 07:26:57 PM
So in polite conversation between members of these organisations, the phrase ' its going to be wet and cold tonight in Derry-londonDerry'?
Etc

I am surprised. Must be a city thing as  a few miles out the road west or east it's referred to as Derry.
In Cavan they refer to the fleadh in Derry.
In Dublin , Cork, Glasgow or Luton they talk about Derry.
Maybe I've been 'lucky' with the people I've met and talked to!

Or are you using that rapier like 'wit' again?

No need for the inverted comments my friend, ye know ye love my jokes.

Ah sure they say Derry, sure even our old friends in the Waterside say that! Im saying on all the banners, outside pubs, in brocheres etc. On the local radio this is the new word of pleasure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 01:11:48 AM
Pre-1999, the Irish Constitution encompassed all 32 counties as 'Ireland' ('national territory').

Post-1999, the 6 counties magically (tragically) disappear (this piece of moronic stupidity from the same geniuses that have delivered the 26 counties into German dominated servitude).

Go figure...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 20, 2013, 07:03:43 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 18, 2013, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 18, 2013, 09:44:04 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 18, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go. (http://tuv.org.uk/files/membershipapplication.pdf)
Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!

Why do you have to visit the shop in person to form an opinion on 'Sniper at work' badges being sold by a political party that claims to be pursuing it's objectives through only peaceful means?
Claims to be?

Well if Lawnseed's aggression towards the Republic to go by, they are nothing but hollow claims.
hold on a minute "aggression toward the republic"? i think you mistake aggression for fraustration. i'm watching the life being drained out of a bright brilliant young politician live on my tv by the poison that is 26 county politics. a young man with a vision for the future of this island, where we care about its citizens the haves and the have nots. pearse doherty. i watch the 'leader' of this 'state' slim and slither like a slug around brussels stripping his teeth and lurking around the corridors waiting for orders from european bankers as to how he will screw his countrymen. i watch tds in squad cars out on 250euro bail. and then i listen to top rte broadcasters advise bankrupt people to slip up to the north of ireland and stay on benefits for a year then come back and everything will be ok. the problem is less than half a mile away and its a gimp from mayo and his traitor liar pension chasing buddy guttless gilmore. >:( >:( >:( i could go on but i detest long posts
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2013, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 01:11:48 AM
Pre-1999, the Irish Constitution encompassed all 32 counties as 'Ireland' ('national territory').

Post-1999, the 6 counties magically (tragically) disappear (this piece of moronic stupidity from the same geniuses that have delivered the 26 counties into German dominated servitude).

Go figure...

I think you'll find it was the Irish people who voted for the GFA and the people of the 26 cos voted for the changes to the Bunreacht  ;)
If you think we're all stupid morons for doing that... fair enough  :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 20, 2013, 04:48:26 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 18, 2013, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.
mmmm seems the facts piss Apples off.
Fact Ireland is the Island..Republic Of Ireland is your state. Don't know why I even engaging Mayo as you are partionist and would recognize nordies as Irish any how.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on April 20, 2013, 05:00:03 PM
Surely everyone who believes is in
a) The Good Friday Agreement
b) The constitution of the Republic of Ireland
c) Democracy
d) The rule of law as accepted in international law

must accept that partition must continue unless and until circumstances change.

On that basis all reasonable people are partitionist and "partitionist" is not a term of abuse.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 20, 2013, 05:23:52 PM
QuoteOn that basis all reasonable people are partitionist and "partitionist" is not a term of abuse.

There is a difference between tolerating something and actively promoting it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 08:41:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2013, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 01:11:48 AM
Pre-1999, the Irish Constitution encompassed all 32 counties as 'Ireland' ('national territory').

Post-1999, the 6 counties magically (tragically) disappear (this piece of moronic stupidity from the same geniuses that have delivered the 26 counties into German dominated servitude).

Go figure...

I think you'll find it was the Irish people who voted for the GFA and the people of the 26 cos voted for the changes to the Bunreacht  ;)
If you think we're all stupid morons for doing that... fair enough  :-\

Let me help you figure: it was not the plain voting people of Ireland who reframed the Búnreacht, rather it was the same clueless numpties and their cronies, the same crew that has propelled the 26 into perpetual fiscal and monetary bondage.   :(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 20, 2013, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 20, 2013, 04:48:26 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 18, 2013, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 18, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 18, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 17, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 17, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 17, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?
because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.
There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.
There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.
mmmm seems the facts piss Apples off.
Fact Ireland is the Island..Republic Of Ireland is your state. Don't know why I even engaging Mayo as you are partionist and would recognize nordies as Irish any how.

Your just having a sulk now, I recognised people from the North as being Irish. The Republic of Ireland is the descriptive name of Ireland (the state). I'm sorry you don't like it, but those are the facts. If you paid attention you would notice the times when the lads from Mayo, Roscommon, Dublin, Monaghan, Meath, Waterford etc. have a go at the North or the lads from the North is after a tirade of abuse from our 6 county board members. Once it is started by you lads, of course those of us from the independent state will not take your shit. Certain people form Kerry or Laois may be known to start without provocation I grant you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2013, 10:48:47 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 08:41:51 PM
Let me help you figure: it was not the plain voting people of Ireland who reframed the Búnreacht, .   :(

Any reframing of An Bunreacht HAS TO BE approved by the plain ( and not so plain)  voting people of the 26 Cos.
The numpties can do all the reframing they wish - but unless passed in an oul referendum it doesnt happen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 10:52:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2013, 10:48:47 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 08:41:51 PM
Let me help you figure: it was not the plain voting people of Ireland who reframed the Búnreacht, .   :(

Any reframing of An Bunreacht HAS TO BE approved by the plain ( and not so plain)  voting people of the 26 Cos.
The numpties can do all the reframing they wish - but unless passed in an oul referendum it doesnt happen.

Stop twisting my words, and the truth.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2013, 10:55:42 PM
So are you saying we don't have to have a referendum to change an Bunreacht?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 20, 2013, 10:56:22 PM
Another group that seemed historically to have problems with our use of the name Ireland was Unionists. Unionists
claimed in the early years that the Republic robbed the name Ireland (Republic of Ireland), nothing ever stopped them calling Northern Ireland - Ireland (Kingdom of Ireland).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 20, 2013, 11:02:01 PM
i'm not that worried about the name of the 26. what boils me most is "ulster" when they mean the 6 counties >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 11:04:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2013, 10:55:42 PM
So are you saying we don't have to have a referendum to change an Bunreacht?

The voting population are given predetermined choices in the polling-booth (as determined by the governing numpties) -- are you saying they can arbitrarily rearrange the options, or add new ones? Get real.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 21, 2013, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 20, 2013, 11:02:01 PM
i'm not that worried about the name of the 26. what boils me most is "ulster" when they mean the 6 counties >:(

Give us back West Cavan and South West Fermanagh   ;D

We want Clare too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 21, 2013, 04:45:04 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 11:04:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2013, 10:55:42 PM
So are you saying we don't have to have a referendum to change an Bunreacht?

The voting population are given predetermined choices in the polling-booth (as determined by the governing numpties) -- are you saying they can arbitrarily rearrange the options, or add new ones? Get real.
I never said or suggested anything of the sort so please...
As you well know the voters can reject any proposal to amend an Bunreacht.
We chose to accept the changes in 1998.
The people of Ireland ( all of it  ;)) voted to accept the Good Friday Agreement.

The politicians may be all numpties BUT they are the people putting themselves up for election and getting chosen by the voters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 21, 2013, 04:56:19 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-féin-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 07:56:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 19, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2013, 11:06:50 AM
QuotePatronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.
But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.
Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.
No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.
That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!
I wasn't arguing popular perception. I was talking about the constitutional and political reality.

And for every band listing 'Belfast, Ireland', I can show you another listing 'Belfast, UK'.
Most people in the world see it as a single identity-Ireland!

I'd not be surprised to see 'Belfast-uk' as isn't this the current  assignation!
But my example is just to show what most of the world thinks!
Again, you're on a different argument that i'm not disagreeing on! The argument here was the name of the state, not the popular perception.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 21, 2013, 08:01:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 21, 2013, 04:45:04 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 11:04:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2013, 10:55:42 PM
So are you saying we don't have to have a referendum to change an Bunreacht?

The voting population are given predetermined choices in the polling-booth (as determined by the governing numpties) -- are you saying they can arbitrarily rearrange the options, or add new ones? Get real.
I never said or suggested anything of the sort so please...
As you well know the voters can reject any proposal to amend an Bunreacht.
We chose to accept the changes in 1998.
The people of Ireland ( all of it  ;)) voted to accept the Good Friday Agreement.

The politicians may be all numpties BUT they are the people putting themselves up for election and getting chosen by the voters.

Let me repeat, the voters are given predetermined choices, as drawn up by the incompetents (patently), and if the choices are deficient (like the mangling of the reframing of the Bunreacht) there's nothing much the plain voter can do about it at that stage.

You naively believe it seems, that the choices in the GFA implied that all components therein were of good and sound thinking, when obviously pig ears were in great supply in the framing of such. Now stop digging.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!
What are you talking about?! An entity is something that exists. Northern Ireland does exist. And it was recognised in the GFA, the subsequent Northern Ireland Act, the Northern Ireland Assembly... it's not a figment of someone's imagination.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.
Please share this alternative definition of state. I understood it to be a fairly objective word.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 01:11:48 AM
Pre-1999, the Irish Constitution encompassed all 32 counties as 'Ireland' ('national territory').

Post-1999, the 6 counties magically (tragically) disappear (this piece of moronic stupidity from the same geniuses that have delivered the 26 counties into German dominated servitude).

Go figure...
Actually, given that the amendments were part of the GFA - the revised articles appear in the Agreement itself - you can't lay the blame at the door of the southern government. All of the parties to those negotiations, including Sinn Féin, are responsible for those amendments to the constitution.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 21, 2013, 08:14:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 01:11:48 AM
Pre-1999, the Irish Constitution encompassed all 32 counties as 'Ireland' ('national territory').

Post-1999, the 6 counties magically (tragically) disappear (this piece of moronic stupidity from the same geniuses that have delivered the 26 counties into German dominated servitude).

Go figure...
Actually, given that the amendments were part of the GFA - the revised articles appear in the Agreement itself - you can't lay the blame at the door of the southern government. All of the parties to those negotiations, including Sinn Féin, are responsible for those amendments to the constitution.

Oh yes I can: nothing passed the Oireachtas without having gone through the majority party (or parties) therein (since they, and they only, could pass such legislation, regardless of whom might have been involved in the drafting of such). Next piece of revisionism?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 21, 2013, 08:24:06 PM
FOSB I love the way you can (almost) rationalise away anything remotely inconvenient without a fermion of self-doubt.  ;D

I plan to steal your options deficient line as an argument against any vote in the future.

e.g. "drawn up by the incompetents (patently), and if the choices are deficient (like the mangling of the reframing of the Bunreacht)"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:30:56 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 21, 2013, 08:14:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 20, 2013, 01:11:48 AM
Pre-1999, the Irish Constitution encompassed all 32 counties as 'Ireland' ('national territory').

Post-1999, the 6 counties magically (tragically) disappear (this piece of moronic stupidity from the same geniuses that have delivered the 26 counties into German dominated servitude).

Go figure...
Actually, given that the amendments were part of the GFA - the revised articles appear in the Agreement itself - you can't lay the blame at the door of the southern government. All of the parties to those negotiations, including Sinn Féin, are responsible for those amendments to the constitution.

Oh yes I can: nothing passed the Oireachtas without having gone through the majority party therein (since they, and they only, could pass such legislation, regardless of whom might have been involved in the drafting of such). Next piece of revisionism?
Revisionism? The proposed amendments were in the Good Friday Agreement. This is what was negotiated by all those parties to the talks. All those parties - and SF was a significant player in the talks - supported and urged the public to vote for the revised articles.

My point is not what the southern government did, but the fact that those changes wouldn't have been in the agreement if all parties to the talks hadn't agreed to them.

It follows therefore, that if these amendments constitute incompetence, then all parties who reached agreement and all parties who campaigned for a 'Yes' vote are liable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 21, 2013, 08:37:22 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:30:56 PM
Revisionism? The proposed amendments were in the Good Friday Agreement. This is what was negotiated by all those parties to the talks. All those parties - and SF was a significant player in the talks - supported and urged the public to vote for the revised articles.

My point is not what the southern government did, but the fact that those changes wouldn't have been in the agreement if all parties to the talks hadn't agreed to them.

It follows therefore, that if these amendments constitute incompetence, then all parties who reached agreement and all parties who campaigned for a 'Yes' vote are liable.

Given the relative enormity of what the GFA encompassed (legislatively, and culturally), such minutiae as might have been missed or mangled with the Bunreacht may have slipped from the general public consciousness (and understandably so).

They should not, however, have slipped from the consciousness, and indeed responsibility, of the Oireachtas, they being the ultimate guarantors and custodians of the integrity of that same Constitution. They failed, and as the powers that were that is unforgivably remiss.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:45:29 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 21, 2013, 08:37:22 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:30:56 PM
Revisionism? The proposed amendments were in the Good Friday Agreement. This is what was negotiated by all those parties to the talks. All those parties - and SF was a significant player in the talks - supported and urged the public to vote for the revised articles.

My point is not what the southern government did, but the fact that those changes wouldn't have been in the agreement if all parties to the talks hadn't agreed to them.

It follows therefore, that if these amendments constitute incompetence, then all parties who reached agreement and all parties who campaigned for a 'Yes' vote are liable.

Given the relative enormity of what the GFA encompassed (legislatively, and culturally), such minutiae as might have been missed or mangled with the Bunreacht may have slipped from the general public consciousness (and understandably so).

They should not, however, have slipped from the consciousness, and indeed responsibility, of the Oireachtas, they being the ultimate guarantors and custodians of the integrity of that same Constitution. They failed, and as the powers that were that is unforgivably remiss.
I'm not talking about the general public. I'm talking about the parties to the talks. That's the Irish and British governments and 8 political parties. To lay the blame at the Irish government alone is disingenuous. If this really is such a big failing, then one of those political parties, for example, Sinn Féin, should have spotted it. If they missed it, then surely they're just as incompetent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 21, 2013, 08:54:27 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:45:29 PM
I'm not talking about the general public. I'm talking about the parties to the talks. That's the Irish and British governments and 8 political parties. To lay the blame at the Irish government alone is disingenuous. If this really is such a big failing, then one of those political parties, for example, Sinn Féin, should have spotted it. If they missed it, then surely they're just as incompetent.

In your opinion, not in mine.

Nothing deficient should have passed if the governing incumbents were doing their job properly, but sure we know well they weren't, which is why your stout defence of them is rather curious, to say the least.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 21, 2013, 09:15:38 PM
"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed." End of argument, I would have thought.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 09:22:31 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 21, 2013, 08:54:27 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:45:29 PM
I'm not talking about the general public. I'm talking about the parties to the talks. That's the Irish and British governments and 8 political parties. To lay the blame at the Irish government alone is disingenuous. If this really is such a big failing, then one of those political parties, for example, Sinn Féin, should have spotted it. If they missed it, then surely they're just as incompetent.

In your opinion, not in mine.

Nothing deficient should have passed if the governing incumbents were doing their job properly, but sure we know well they weren't, which is why your stout defence of them is rather curious, to say the least.
I'm not defending the government at all - just pointing out that they were but one party in the negotiations. In fact, I have no significant issues with the revisions to the constitution, and therefore feel no need to defend the then government at all.

But if you can see deficiencies, then surely such deficiencies would/should have been obvious to those political parties negotiating them.

Also, given your point about the role of the Oireachtas, surely SF's TD at the time is on record for scrutinising the legislation and raising relevant concerns as it went through?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 21, 2013, 10:44:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 09:22:31 PM
I'm not defending the government at all - just pointing out that they were but one party in the negotiations. In fact, I have no significant issues with the revisions to the constitution, and therefore feel no need to defend the then government at all.

But if you can see deficiencies, then surely such deficiencies would/should have been obvious to those political parties negotiating them.

Also, given your point about the role of the Oireachtas, surely SF's TD at the time is on record for scrutinising the legislation and raising relevant concerns as it went through?

The GFA, and the legislation directly pertaining to it, is one thing, and the ancillary legislation (such as that concerning the Bunreacht) is another.

Regardless of the roles of other political parties, lesser or greater though they may have been, the government is the single sole guarantor and custodian of the integrity of the Bunreacht, and the Irish Government was deficient, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 21, 2013, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!
What are you talking about?! An entity is something that exists. Northern Ireland does exist. And it was recognised in the GFA, the subsequent Northern Ireland Act, the Northern Ireland Assembly... it's not a figment of someone's imagination.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.
Please share this alternative definition of state. I understood it to be a fairly objective word.
Northern Ireland is effectively a political escrow, a holding device until the policy matures and it can be realised or cashed - ie returned to its owner and reunified with the other 26 .

Unless I'm mistaken, the northern assembly doesn't actually have any power, its a sop to keep both sides happy and doing something until the final decision is taken.

Your use of the word 'state' makes it out to be a definitive political entity. It can be but not exclusively. It can also mean an entity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 22, 2013, 08:00:44 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 21, 2013, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!
What are you talking about?! An entity is something that exists. Northern Ireland does exist. And it was recognised in the GFA, the subsequent Northern Ireland Act, the Northern Ireland Assembly... it's not a figment of someone's imagination.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.
Please share this alternative definition of state. I understood it to be a fairly objective word.
Northern Ireland is effectively a political escrow, a holding device until the policy matures and it can be realised or cashed - ie returned to its owner and reunified with the other 26 .

Unless I'm mistaken, the northern assembly doesn't actually have any power, its a sop to keep both sides happy and doing something until the final decision is taken.

Your use of the word 'state' makes it out to be a definitive political entity. It can be but not exclusively. It can also mean an entity.
The limits of the Assembly's powers is irrelevant as to whether NI is an entity. If something exists, it's an entity.

In relation to 'state', you still haven't provided a proper definition for your alternative understanding. But there's little point in continuing this discussion if you've got your own meaning for words.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 22, 2013, 08:04:34 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 21, 2013, 10:44:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 09:22:31 PM
I'm not defending the government at all - just pointing out that they were but one party in the negotiations. In fact, I have no significant issues with the revisions to the constitution, and therefore feel no need to defend the then government at all.

But if you can see deficiencies, then surely such deficiencies would/should have been obvious to those political parties negotiating them.

Also, given your point about the role of the Oireachtas, surely SF's TD at the time is on record for scrutinising the legislation and raising relevant concerns as it went through?

The GFA, and the legislation directly pertaining to it, is one thing, and the ancillary legislation (such as that concerning the Bunreacht) is another.

Regardless of the roles of other political parties, lesser or greater though they may have been, the government is the single sole guarantor and custodian of the integrity of the Bunreacht, and the Irish Government was deficient, in my opinion.
What legislation are you talking about? What ancillary legislation? Is there something other than that Nineteenth Amendment of the Constitution Act, 1998?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2013, 09:15:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 22, 2013, 08:00:44 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 21, 2013, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!
What are you talking about?! An entity is something that exists. Northern Ireland does exist. And it was recognised in the GFA, the subsequent Northern Ireland Act, the Northern Ireland Assembly... it's not a figment of someone's imagination.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.
Please share this alternative definition of state. I understood it to be a fairly objective word.
Northern Ireland is effectively a political escrow, a holding device until the policy matures and it can be realised or cashed - ie returned to its owner and reunified with the other 26 .

Unless I'm mistaken, the northern assembly doesn't actually have any power, its a sop to keep both sides happy and doing something until the final decision is taken.

Your use of the word 'state' makes it out to be a definitive political entity. It can be but not exclusively. It can also mean an entity.
The limits of the Assembly's powers is irrelevant as to whether NI is an entity. If something exists, it's an entity.

In relation to 'state', you still haven't provided a proper definition for your alternative understanding. But there's little point in continuing this discussion if you've got your own meaning for words.
Absolutely not irrelevant - if this was a country or a gov with real legislative powers then you'd be correct. It is a halfway house and yes an entity or a state but not in the full political legislative sense.
I'd say it is possibly unique in the world - can only think of Hong Kong in any way similar - and it's been returned to its owners now.

As for the definition, you agreed earlier that its how people use terminology.
Eg the word state does not solely mean a self determining country.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 23, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Northern Ireland is an entity, a jurisdiction and no amount of political contortion will change that. A majority of natioanlists in the north accept that, whether they like it or not is a moot point. SF have accepted that until a majority say otherwise that it exists. None of this makes it a country...it clearly isn't.
On another point all the political posturing that SF did over Sean Brady and President Gerry is quite happily covering up for the brother.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 23, 2013, 03:57:55 PM
With a Jesuit installed in the Vatican, it's appropriate that this thread should become an argument akin to how many angels can dance on a pinhead.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on April 23, 2013, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 23, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Northern Ireland is an entity, a jurisdiction and no amount of political contortion will change that. A majority of natioanlists in the north accept that, whether they like it or not is a moot point. SF have accepted that until a majority say otherwise that it exists. None of this makes it a country...it clearly isn't.
On another point all the political posturing that SF did over Sean Brady and President Gerry is quite happily covering up for the brother.

By testifying against him in court? Strange logic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 06:00:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2013, 09:15:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 22, 2013, 08:00:44 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 21, 2013, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!
What are you talking about?! An entity is something that exists. Northern Ireland does exist. And it was recognised in the GFA, the subsequent Northern Ireland Act, the Northern Ireland Assembly... it's not a figment of someone's imagination.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.
Please share this alternative definition of state. I understood it to be a fairly objective word.
Northern Ireland is effectively a political escrow, a holding device until the policy matures and it can be realised or cashed - ie returned to its owner and reunified with the other 26 .

Unless I'm mistaken, the northern assembly doesn't actually have any power, its a sop to keep both sides happy and doing something until the final decision is taken.

Your use of the word 'state' makes it out to be a definitive political entity. It can be but not exclusively. It can also mean an entity.
The limits of the Assembly's powers is irrelevant as to whether NI is an entity. If something exists, it's an entity.

In relation to 'state', you still haven't provided a proper definition for your alternative understanding. But there's little point in continuing this discussion if you've got your own meaning for words.
Absolutely not irrelevant - if this was a country or a gov with real legislative powers then you'd be correct. It is a halfway house and yes an entity or a state but not in the full political legislative sense.
I'd say it is possibly unique in the world - can only think of Hong Kong in any way similar - and it's been returned to its owners now.

As for the definition, you agreed earlier that its how people use terminology.
Eg the word state does not solely mean a self determining country.
Well that's cleared that up. You had initially said NI wasn't an entity - now you acknowledge that it is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 06:06:20 PM
Quote from: ranch on April 23, 2013, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 23, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Northern Ireland is an entity, a jurisdiction and no amount of political contortion will change that. A majority of natioanlists in the north accept that, whether they like it or not is a moot point. SF have accepted that until a majority say otherwise that it exists. None of this makes it a country...it clearly isn't.
On another point all the political posturing that SF did over Sean Brady and President Gerry is quite happily covering up for the brother.

By testifying against him in court? Strange logic.
He doesn't have much choice at this stage surely? I assume apples is referring to what happened before this case became public.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 06:00:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2013, 09:15:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 22, 2013, 08:00:44 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 21, 2013, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!
What are you talking about?! An entity is something that exists. Northern Ireland does exist. And it was recognised in the GFA, the subsequent Northern Ireland Act, the Northern Ireland Assembly... it's not a figment of someone's imagination.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.
Please share this alternative definition of state. I understood it to be a fairly objective word.
Northern Ireland is effectively a political escrow, a holding device until the policy matures and it can be realised or cashed - ie returned to its owner and reunified with the other 26 .

Unless I'm mistaken, the northern assembly doesn't actually have any power, its a sop to keep both sides happy and doing something until the final decision is taken.

Your use of the word 'state' makes it out to be a definitive political entity. It can be but not exclusively. It can also mean an entity.
The limits of the Assembly's powers is irrelevant as to whether NI is an entity. If something exists, it's an entity.

In relation to 'state', you still haven't provided a proper definition for your alternative understanding. But there's little point in continuing this discussion if you've got your own meaning for words.
Absolutely not irrelevant - if this was a country or a gov with real legislative powers then you'd be correct. It is a halfway house and yes an entity or a state but not in the full political legislative sense.
I'd say it is possibly unique in the world - can only think of Hong Kong in any way similar - and it's been returned to its owners now.

As for the definition, you agreed earlier that its how people use terminology.
Eg the word state does not solely mean a self determining country.
Well that's cleared that up. You had initially said NI wasn't an entity - now you acknowledge that it is.
Not quite - I was saying that I and others were referring to NI as an entity but not in the political sense.
I think you were getting your knickers in a twist by seemingly only believing eg the word 'state' could be used in a political sense.

As for the second part of your sentence- politically the six counties belong under the jurisdiction of the British gov- however while having an assembly, it has no real powers or cannot pass constitional laws afaik.

I wouldn't go as far to say that NI is illegal ( too long has passed for anyone to  campaign on that ticket- even though that may be factually correct) , but I'd say NI is politically incorrect and will be so until economy uplift and referendum etc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 07:35:44 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 06:00:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2013, 09:15:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 22, 2013, 08:00:44 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 21, 2013, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 21, 2013, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!
What are you talking about?! An entity is something that exists. Northern Ireland does exist. And it was recognised in the GFA, the subsequent Northern Ireland Act, the Northern Ireland Assembly... it's not a figment of someone's imagination.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 19, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.
Please share this alternative definition of state. I understood it to be a fairly objective word.
Northern Ireland is effectively a political escrow, a holding device until the policy matures and it can be realised or cashed - ie returned to its owner and reunified with the other 26 .

Unless I'm mistaken, the northern assembly doesn't actually have any power, its a sop to keep both sides happy and doing something until the final decision is taken.

Your use of the word 'state' makes it out to be a definitive political entity. It can be but not exclusively. It can also mean an entity.
The limits of the Assembly's powers is irrelevant as to whether NI is an entity. If something exists, it's an entity.

In relation to 'state', you still haven't provided a proper definition for your alternative understanding. But there's little point in continuing this discussion if you've got your own meaning for words.
Absolutely not irrelevant - if this was a country or a gov with real legislative powers then you'd be correct. It is a halfway house and yes an entity or a state but not in the full political legislative sense.
I'd say it is possibly unique in the world - can only think of Hong Kong in any way similar - and it's been returned to its owners now.

As for the definition, you agreed earlier that its how people use terminology.
Eg the word state does not solely mean a self determining country.
Well that's cleared that up. You had initially said NI wasn't an entity - now you acknowledge that it is.
Not quite - I was saying that I and others were referring to NI as an entity but not in the political sense.
I think you were getting your knickers in a twist by seemingly only believing eg the word 'state' could be used in a political sense.

As for the second part of your sentence- politically the six counties belong under the jurisdiction of the British gov- however while having an assembly, it has no real powers or cannot pass constitional laws afaik.

I wouldn't go as far to say that NI is illegal ( too long has passed for anyone to  campaign on that ticket- even though that may be factually correct) , but I'd say NI is politically incorrect and will be so until economy uplift and referendum etc
It is an entity in the political sense. How can it not be?  A political entity is a unit with political responsibilities - there's no requirement for a political entity to be a sovereign state.

And as we're talking politics, what was the point in referring to the word 'state' in the context of Ireland if not in the political sense? What other sense is relevant?

Also, surely you couldn't argue that NI is illegal on the basis that its status was agreed by the overwhelming majority north and south in passing the GFA? You could argue the wrongs of partition, but it could hardly be 'factually correct' to call it illegal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:12:41 PM
Jeez man you really get your knickers in a twist over nothing.
In short many words in the dictionary have more than one meaning or context.
You are looking at the use of these words from your perspective or context from the political meaning.
My usage is of the non political perspective. I've tried to explain this numerous times.

Also ni is an illegally created state. No amount of recent votes or referenda can alter how it was created, but as I said, its too long in existence now to legally challenge this.
I don't know how you could refute this unless you believe the plantation and eviction of landowners by the planters was perfectly ok!!
Calm down as the scousers would say!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.

State can mean and be used in many things
Eg
State of mind
State of play
In an awful state

None of these mean
Political constituency in ones head
A country called 'play' that has its constitutional government
A really bad country

That's another thing - NI is not a country in case you think I'm implying this by the use of the word 'country'!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 23, 2013, 09:23:33 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 23, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Northern Ireland is an entity, a jurisdiction and no amount of political contortion will change that. A majority of natioanlists in the north accept that, whether they like it or not is a moot point. SF have accepted that until a majority say otherwise that it exists. None of this makes it a country...it clearly isn't.
On another point all the political posturing that SF did over Sean Brady and President Gerry is quite happily covering up for the brother.
wouldnt like to be your brother apples. :P dont think he covered up as such. more a kind of put on the back burner. a very difficult family problem for anyone to deal with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 23, 2013, 09:31:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2013, 04:56:19 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-féin-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
micky martin can claim what he likes.. it is a fact that he was part of a government that ruined the irish economy and thus prolonged partition by making the prospect of a united ireland so unpalatable that northern republicans would rather give up their birthright than be governed by fianna gael. hes a traitor
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 23, 2013, 09:36:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 23, 2013, 09:31:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2013, 04:56:19 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-féin-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
micky martin can claim what he likes.. it is a fact that he was part of a government that ruined the irish economy and thus prolonged partition by making the prospect of a united ireland so unpalatable that northern republicans would rather give up their birthright than be governed by fianna gael. hes a traitor

He is also interested in Hot Yoga and learning Dolphin . Which is about as relevant as your point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:38:46 PM
IMO I think a lot of folk on here are a bit ott using the word traitor when talking about the men from war of independence as well as modern day politicians.

Modern day politicians are inept maybe corrupt for some but that's as far as I'd go.

Ok Inda kinny and micheal Martin are playing to the gallery with all their pompous bullsiht about sf , left alliance as well as each others allies.

Age old unionist/loyalist trick - berate the opponents to make yourself look good.
What next- will they start giving off about foreign nationals to garner votes from another tranche of potential votes!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 23, 2013, 09:52:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:38:46 PM
IMO I think a lot of folk on here are a bit ott using the word traitor when talking about the men from war of independence as well as modern day politicians.

Modern day politicians are inept maybe corrupt for some but that's as far as I'd go.

Ok Inda kinny and micheal Martin are playing to the gallery with all their pompous bullsiht about sf , left alliance as well as each others allies.

Age old unionist/loyalist trick - berate the opponents to make yourself look good.
What next- will they start giving off about foreign nationals to garner votes from another tranche of potential votes!
they're traitors!! traitors and lairs! they put their own self interests infront of the good of the irish nation. in a different era they'd be put up against a wall..  in this time they should be in jail
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 23, 2013, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 23, 2013, 09:36:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 23, 2013, 09:31:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2013, 04:56:19 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-féin-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-claims-sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-sullied-republicanism-1.1367551?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
micky martin can claim what he likes.. it is a fact that he was part of a government that ruined the irish economy and thus prolonged partition by making the prospect of a united ireland so unpalatable that northern republicans would rather give up their birthright than be governed by fianna gael. hes a traitor

He is also interested in Hot Yoga and learning Dolphin . Which is about as relevant as your point.

the guy is part of the tent in galway, nepotism, cronism, fraud, lies, treachery, cover ups, golf at druids, and now you tell us hes into 'hot yoga and dolphins as well' you make my point very well
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 10:05:16 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 23, 2013, 09:52:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:38:46 PM
IMO I think a lot of folk on here are a bit ott using the word traitor when talking about the men from war of independence as well as modern day politicians.

Modern day politicians are inept maybe corrupt for some but that's as far as I'd go.

Ok Inda kinny and micheal Martin are playing to the gallery with all their pompous bullsiht about sf , left alliance as well as each others allies.

Age old unionist/loyalist trick - berate the opponents to make yourself look good.
What next- will they start giving off about foreign nationals to garner votes from another tranche of potential votes!
they're traitors!! traitors and lairs! they put their own self interests infront of the good of the irish nation. in a different era they'd be put up against a wall..  in this time they should be in jail
I'd simply call them cnuts not traitors.
Self obsessed me feiner wnakers.

The rest I'd agree with you on though.

But we have no choice- this is the type of person that goes up for election.
I mean inda kinny , sure he's a feckin bedraggled dwarf ex teacher who knows nothing about business- and it shows!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 23, 2013, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 10:05:16 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 23, 2013, 09:52:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:38:46 PM
IMO I think a lot of folk on here are a bit ott using the word traitor when talking about the men from war of independence as well as modern day politicians.

Modern day politicians are inept maybe corrupt for some but that's as far as I'd go.

Ok Inda kinny and micheal Martin are playing to the gallery with all their pompous bullsiht about sf , left alliance as well as each others allies.

Age old unionist/loyalist trick - berate the opponents to make yourself look good.
What next- will they start giving off about foreign nationals to garner votes from another tranche of potential votes!
they're traitors!! traitors and lairs! they put their own self interests infront of the good of the irish nation. in a different era they'd be put up against a wall..  in this time they should be in jail
I'd simply call them cnuts not traitors.
Self obsessed me feiner wnakers.

The rest I'd agree with you on though.

But we have no choice- this is the type of person that goes up for election.
I mean inda kinny , sure he's a feckin bedraggled dwarf ex teacher who knows nothing about business- and it shows!
theyre all pigs on the one sow. they are directly related to dev the guy who gathered money in america for ireland and kept it. using some of it to start a media empire and his decendants still wallow in that wealth to this day
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 10:44:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:12:41 PM
Also ni is an illegally created state. No amount of recent votes or referenda can alter how it was created, but as I said, its too long in existence now to legally challenge this.
I don't know how you could refute this unless you believe the plantation and eviction of landowners by the planters was perfectly ok!!
Calm down as the scousers would say!
Did you actually read what I said? This is like arguing with lawnseed. I never said the referendum could alter how it was created, nor did I say I believed the plantation was okay. My point is that you might consider the referendum to be like the granting of retrospective planning approval - regardless of its status beforehand, it's legal now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.
Really? What dictionary definition are you using? My understanding is that the word state in the context of an area or land has to be in relation to politics / government.

There are of course other uses of the word, but in the context of territory, it's political.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 02:08:27 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 10:44:47 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:12:41 PM
Also ni is an illegally created state. No amount of recent votes or referenda can alter how it was created, but as I said, its too long in existence now to legally challenge this.
I don't know how you could refute this unless you believe the plantation and eviction of landowners by the planters was perfectly ok!!
Calm down as the scousers would say!
Did you actually read what I said? This is like arguing with lawnseed. I never said the referendum could alter how it was created, nor did I say I believed the plantation was okay. My point is that you might consider the referendum to be like the granting of retrospective planning approval - regardless of its status beforehand, it's legal now.
what part of that is in disagrement with what I wrote previously?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 02:10:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.
Really? What dictionary definition are you using? My understanding is that the word state in the context of an area or land has to be in relation to politics / government.

There are of course other uses of the word, but in the context of territory, it's political.
I'll repost again

Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.

State can mean and be used in many things
Eg
State of mind
State of play
In an awful state

None of these mean
Political constituency in ones head
A country called 'play' that has its constitutional government
A really bad country

I could have used a different work than 'state' eg I could have said 'area' but didnt.

I think you are misinterpreting my context. thats all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 24, 2013, 06:03:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 02:10:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.
Really? What dictionary definition are you using? My understanding is that the word state in the context of an area or land has to be in relation to politics / government.

There are of course other uses of the word, but in the context of territory, it's political.
I'll repost again

Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.

State can mean and be used in many things
Eg
State of mind
State of play
In an awful state

I think you are misinterpreting my context. thats all.
I don't know why you're reposting it. And i'm not misinterpreting your context at all - if the context is territory, then 'state' is a political term. It's that simple. State can indeed mean many things, but in terms of territory, it's political.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 24, 2013, 06:03:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 02:10:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.
Really? What dictionary definition are you using? My understanding is that the word state in the context of an area or land has to be in relation to politics / government.

There are of course other uses of the word, but in the context of territory, it's political.
I'll repost again

Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.

State can mean and be used in many things
Eg
State of mind
State of play
In an awful state

I think you are misinterpreting my context. thats all.
I don't know why you're reposting it. And i'm not misinterpreting your context at all - if the context is territory, then 'state' is a political term. It's that simple. State can indeed mean many things, but in terms of territory, it's political.
i'm afraid we will disagree on that one Lord Litchfield!
context and all that.
it can be used to describe an area!

in the very least ,artistic license and all that- I'd have thought youd appreciate that!
Ciao baby!
;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 24, 2013, 08:49:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 24, 2013, 06:03:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 02:10:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 23, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.
Really? What dictionary definition are you using? My understanding is that the word state in the context of an area or land has to be in relation to politics / government.

There are of course other uses of the word, but in the context of territory, it's political.
I'll repost again

Btw my usage of 'state' is about 'an area'/entity/body of land.

Qed it doesn't have to refer to politics.

State can mean and be used in many things
Eg
State of mind
State of play
In an awful state

I think you are misinterpreting my context. thats all.
I don't know why you're reposting it. And i'm not misinterpreting your context at all - if the context is territory, then 'state' is a political term. It's that simple. State can indeed mean many things, but in terms of territory, it's political.
i'm afraid we will disagree on that one Lord Litchfield!
context and all that.
it can be used to describe an area!

in the very least ,artistic license and all that- I'd have thought youd appreciate that!
Ciao baby!
;)
Of course it can. When it's in reference to a political unit.
Bye.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 09:13:10 PM
so when folk refer to the bog of allen state or south east counties state they are referring to political affiliations!
interesting.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 24, 2013, 09:17:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 09:13:10 PM
so when folk refer to the bog of allen state or south east counties state they are referring to political affiliations!
interesting.
Elaborate on how they would use that reference.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Have you never heard people referring to areas using the word state?
Eg
The sperrins state
North western state
North eastern state
Allen state ( abrieviated version of big of Allen state) etc

You may not like the use age of the word as you obv believe that it can only be utilized to identify a political area, but it is used in a different context , hence my original usage.

Irrespective, I don't think anyone can dictate on how to use words or terminology either!
I thought that you with your arty leanings and knowledge of artistic licence would be the last person to get all nazi fascist on that!
Chill out man!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 24, 2013, 10:39:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Have you never heard people referring to areas using the word state?
Eg
The sperrins state
North western state
North eastern state
Allen state ( abrieviated version of big of Allen state) etc

You may not like the use age of the word as you obv believe that it can only be utilized to identify a political area, but it is used in a different context , hence my original usage.

Irrespective, I don't think anyone can dictate on how to use words or terminology either!
I thought that you with your arty leanings and knowledge of artistic licence would be the last person to get all nazi fascist on that!
Chill out man!
I've never heard of any of those. And neither has google apparently - go on, give it a go.

In terms of 'dictating' how words and terminology is used - well if it wasn't defined then language wouldn't work.

And at last, an appearance from Godwin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 11:08:36 PM
Grand , I'll leave it up to you to travel around the country and stop the natives from using dialet words and phrases etc that are not in google!!
Ffs

Seems that dialect has been working well for centuries in this country.
So nope, you can't dictate what and how to say things to people.
Jeez yer turning into a bullying nordie - yer too long up there!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 25, 2013, 03:34:32 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 24, 2013, 10:39:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Have you never heard people referring to areas using the word state?
Eg
The sperrins state
North western state
North eastern state
Allen state ( abrieviated version of big of Allen state) etc

You may not like the use age of the word as you obv believe that it can only be utilized to identify a political area, but it is used in a different context , hence my original usage.

Irrespective, I don't think anyone can dictate on how to use words or terminology either!
I thought that you with your arty leanings and knowledge of artistic licence would be the last person to get all nazi fascist on that!
Chill out man!
I've never heard of any of those. And neither has google apparently - go on, give it a go.

In terms of 'dictating' how words and terminology is used - well if it wasn't defined then language wouldn't work.

And at last, an appearance from Godwin.

I have never heard the word used in that context.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 25, 2013, 07:27:24 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 11:08:36 PM
Grand , I'll leave it up to you to travel around the country and stop the natives from using dialet words and phrases etc that are not in google!!
Ffs

Seems that dialect has been working well for centuries in this country.
So nope, you can't dictate what and how to say things to people.
Jeez yer turning into a bullying nordie - yer too long up there!!
Stick to the ball. My point with google is that if the words were used like that, they'd appear in a search. Surely you could find some example of their use.

Of course if it's just a handful of people using the wrong word in the wrong place...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 08:38:55 AM
The ball- holy Daniel its not me that's refusing dialect usaeg and being illogical- I mean using google to look up irish words to determine their usage- are you serious?!?!

I'll get onto google and tell them that they are missing at least a few hundred words in common use in Ireland - such as fisic, cutty, yok etc etc

... Yes, people in you opinion are using the wrong word in the wrong place. I only hope you are saying that in jest !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 09:13:10 PM
so when folk refer to the bog of allen state or south east counties state they are referring to political affiliations!
interesting.

I'm curious as well as to why would anyone say "the Bog of Allen state". It'd be like saying "the United States state".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 10:47:48 AM
Quote from: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 09:13:10 PM
so when folk refer to the bog of allen state or south east counties state they are referring to political affiliations!
interesting.

I'm curious as well as to why would anyone say "the Bog of Allen state". It'd be like saying "the United States state".
lads I knew in college would refer to 'the allen state' the area .
I was on a 7 a side team in the college that were called 'Allen state' and only people that were living adjacent to the area (the bog of Allen) were let play on it.
I was on the side as where I lived was just about on the periphery of it.
Why - they just do - it does encompass multi counties so I can see why.

I'd only ever heard people up in the north Derry /Sperrin region using this termiology before that, but have heard wexfordians utter it since.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 25, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Have you never heard people referring to areas using the word state?
Eg
The sperrins state
North western state
North eastern state
Allen state ( abrieviated version of big of Allen state) etc

In a word, no.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 11:14:24 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 10:47:48 AM
Quote from: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 09:13:10 PM
so when folk refer to the bog of allen state or south east counties state they are referring to political affiliations!
interesting.

I'm curious as well as to why would anyone say "the Bog of Allen state". It'd be like saying "the United States state".
lads I knew in college would refer to 'the allen state' the area .
I was on a 7 a side team in the college that were called 'Allen state' and only people that were living adjacent to the area (the bog of Allen) were let play on it.
I was on the side as where I lived was just about on the periphery of it.
Why - they just do - it does encompass multi counties so I can see why.

I'd only ever heard people up in the north Derry /Sperrin region using this termiology before that, but have heard wexfordians utter it since.

Okay. I don't know why they'd use such redundant terms, but there's nowt as queer as folk.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 01:18:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 25, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Have you never heard people referring to areas using the word state?
Eg
The sperrins state
North western state
North eastern state
Allen state ( abrieviated version of big of Allen state) etc

In a word, no.

+1.
Lynchboy - just move on to another subject as you're not covering yourself in much glory or common sense in this one :-*
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 01:38:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 01:18:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 25, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Have you never heard people referring to areas using the word state?
Eg
The sperrins state
North western state
North eastern state
Allen state ( abrieviated version of big of Allen state) etc

In a word, no.

+1.
Lynchboy - just move on to another subject as you're not covering yourself in much glory or common sense in this one :-*
maybe so, while not coming across well, the point is that there are weird and colloquial terms and prhases used in this country.
Just because people havent heard them doesnt mean they dont exists- I dont expect to many to have heard other phrases that I may have grown up with that were staple parts of my grandfarthers vocabulary.

but no one has the right to say that the use of any of these is right or wrong.
My initial objection was to being told what I meant in what I said- a bugbear of mine.
I dont care how daft I may look, I have experienced things that obv others have not - I'd not be telling others that they couldnt use words or phrases.
Its a bit like alstar skats - whily I dont deny it exists and is used in ways, I only object to calling it an actual language (to get funding) because I dont believe it is - no more than the words and phrases I knew growing up.
Interestingly (for me) the older generation believe that my grandfathers vocab was a donegal version of alstar skats.
The use of 'State' being one term he would use to describe certain areas - eg sperrin state (the area around the sperrins Derry/tyrone) or Innishowen state - where his family originated from.
I just find the responses a little ignorant and closed minded. Fine if you havent heard of it, but dont tell me its wrong just because you havent. I'll leave it at that, it is looking daft I'd admit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 25, 2013, 04:57:41 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 11:14:24 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 10:47:48 AM
Quote from: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 09:13:10 PM
so when folk refer to the bog of allen state or south east counties state they are referring to political affiliations!
interesting.

I'm curious as well as to why would anyone say "the Bog of Allen state". It'd be like saying "the United States state".
lads I knew in college would refer to 'the allen state' the area .
I was on a 7 a side team in the college that were called 'Allen state' and only people that were living adjacent to the area (the bog of Allen) were let play on it.
I was on the side as where I lived was just about on the periphery of it.
Why - they just do - it does encompass multi counties so I can see why.

I'd only ever heard people up in the north Derry /Sperrin region using this termiology before that, but have heard wexfordians utter it since.

Okay. I don't know why they'd use such redundant terms, but there's nowt as queer as folk.

I heard that the Bog of Allen state was allied with the Kingdom of Kerry against the Peoples Republic of Cork and the Scouse Republic over the Queen Victoria Pubs claims to be the true ruler of all lands of the Reds.

The Isle of Innisfree, Narnia, Mordor, Lilliput and the Republic of Telly have convened a council to negotiate a peace.

Mercenaries from the OneRepublic have been charged with war crimes against the people of Atlantis, who are seeking shelter in the Castles in the Sky, way up high.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 25, 2013, 05:06:35 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 11:14:24 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 10:47:48 AM
Quote from: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 09:13:10 PM
so when folk refer to the bog of allen state or south east counties state they are referring to political affiliations!
interesting.

I'm curious as well as to why would anyone say "the Bog of Allen state". It'd be like saying "the United States state".
lads I knew in college would refer to 'the allen state' the area .
I was on a 7 a side team in the college that were called 'Allen state' and only people that were living adjacent to the area (the bog of Allen) were let play on it.
I was on the side as where I lived was just about on the periphery of it.
Why - they just do - it does encompass multi counties so I can see why.

I'd only ever heard people up in the north Derry /Sperrin region using this termiology before that, but have heard wexfordians utter it since.

Okay. I don't know why they'd use such redundant terms, but there's nowt as queer as folk.

"Quare" as folk.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 25, 2013, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 01:38:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 01:18:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 25, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Have you never heard people referring to areas using the word state?
Eg
The sperrins state
North western state
North eastern state
Allen state ( abrieviated version of big of Allen state) etc

In a word, no.

+1.
Lynchboy - just move on to another subject as you're not covering yourself in much glory or common sense in this one :-*
maybe so, while not coming across well, the point is that there are weird and colloquial terms and prhases used in this country.
Just because people havent heard them doesnt mean they dont exists- I dont expect to many to have heard other phrases that I may have grown up with that were staple parts of my grandfarthers vocabulary.

but no one has the right to say that the use of any of these is right or wrong.
My initial objection was to being told what I meant in what I said- a bugbear of mine.
I dont care how daft I may look, I have experienced things that obv others have not - I'd not be telling others that they couldnt use words or phrases.
Its a bit like alstar skats - whily I dont deny it exists and is used in ways, I only object to calling it an actual language (to get funding) because I dont believe it is - no more than the words and phrases I knew growing up.
Interestingly (for me) the older generation believe that my grandfathers vocab was a donegal version of alstar skats.
The use of 'State' being one term he would use to describe certain areas - eg sperrin state (the area around the sperrins Derry/tyrone) or Innishowen state - where his family originated from.
I just find the responses a little ignorant and closed minded. Fine if you havent heard of it, but dont tell me its wrong just because you havent. I'll leave it at that, it is looking daft I'd admit.

OK Lynchboy when people from the Republic use the term the Irish State, or Ireland is an independent state, constituting 85% of the land area of the island of Ireland we are using the real meaning of the word. Just because your colloquialisms give you an incorrect definition that is not our fault, sure I thought bacon meant a roast of pork or christmas bacon before I moved to Australia. I was convinced bacon was not the same as a rasher (as bacon could not be used to describe a rasher cut), based on my own colloquial usage of the words.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 05:21:33 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 25, 2013, 05:06:35 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 25, 2013, 11:14:24 AM
Okay. I don't know why they'd use such redundant terms, but there's nowt as queer as folk.

"Quare" as folk.

I meant what I said, and I said what I meant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 25, 2013, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 01:38:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 01:18:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 25, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Have you never heard people referring to areas using the word state?
Eg
The sperrins state
North western state
North eastern state
Allen state ( abrieviated version of big of Allen state) etc

In a word, no.

+1.
Lynchboy - just move on to another subject as you're not covering yourself in much glory or common sense in this one :-*
maybe so, while not coming across well, the point is that there are weird and colloquial terms and prhases used in this country.
Just because people havent heard them doesnt mean they dont exists- I dont expect to many to have heard other phrases that I may have grown up with that were staple parts of my grandfarthers vocabulary.

but no one has the right to say that the use of any of these is right or wrong.
My initial objection was to being told what I meant in what I said- a bugbear of mine.
I dont care how daft I may look, I have experienced things that obv others have not - I'd not be telling others that they couldnt use words or phrases.
Its a bit like alstar skats - whily I dont deny it exists and is used in ways, I only object to calling it an actual language (to get funding) because I dont believe it is - no more than the words and phrases I knew growing up.
Interestingly (for me) the older generation believe that my grandfathers vocab was a donegal version of alstar skats.
The use of 'State' being one term he would use to describe certain areas - eg sperrin state (the area around the sperrins Derry/tyrone) or Innishowen state - where his family originated from.
I just find the responses a little ignorant and closed minded. Fine if you havent heard of it, but dont tell me its wrong just because you havent. I'll leave it at that, it is looking daft I'd admit.
Again, just because it's used - and i'll take your word for it, on the basis that I can find no other reference to it online and no one here seems to have heard of it - doesn't mean it's correct to use it as such.

Ulster Scots is a good example you've given yourself - you say it's not a language - presumably those who say it is a language are wrong and don't know the definition of the word 'language'.

It's like people who'd argue that Ulster is the 6 counties - i'd tell them they're wrong too.

You made reference earlier to Northern Ireland not being a country - are people wrong if they say it is a country? Or is it okay to ascribe whatever definition you want to a word - to use artistic licence?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
" Figures released today by the Standards Commission show political parties disclosed donations worth just €33,606 for 2012.

Donations disclosed by the Socialist Party amounted to €24,600; Sinn Féin disclosed €6,000 and Comhar Chríostaí - The Christian Solidarity Party disclosed €3,006.

No other party disclosed any donations in 2012".

Does this mean that none of the SF TDs donate any of their Salaries to the Party ( other than the €6k - from Aengus I believe)?
Or else the Party made a false return? I would estimate that if they were keeping to their oft stated practice of donating anything above the average industrial wage to the party each TD would be donating about €20k per annum.

Nally/Lawnseed please clarify  ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 08:28:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 25, 2013, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 01:38:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 01:18:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 25, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 24, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Have you never heard people referring to areas using the word state?
Eg
The sperrins state
North western state
North eastern state
Allen state ( abrieviated version of big of Allen state) etc

In a word, no.

+1.
Lynchboy - just move on to another subject as you're not covering yourself in much glory or common sense in this one :-*
maybe so, while not coming across well, the point is that there are weird and colloquial terms and prhases used in this country.
Just because people havent heard them doesnt mean they dont exists- I dont expect to many to have heard other phrases that I may have grown up with that were staple parts of my grandfarthers vocabulary.

but no one has the right to say that the use of any of these is right or wrong.
My initial objection was to being told what I meant in what I said- a bugbear of mine.
I dont care how daft I may look, I have experienced things that obv others have not - I'd not be telling others that they couldnt use words or phrases.
Its a bit like alstar skats - whily I dont deny it exists and is used in ways, I only object to calling it an actual language (to get funding) because I dont believe it is - no more than the words and phrases I knew growing up.
Interestingly (for me) the older generation believe that my grandfathers vocab was a donegal version of alstar skats.
The use of 'State' being one term he would use to describe certain areas - eg sperrin state (the area around the sperrins Derry/tyrone) or Innishowen state - where his family originated from.
I just find the responses a little ignorant and closed minded. Fine if you havent heard of it, but dont tell me its wrong just because you havent. I'll leave it at that, it is looking daft I'd admit.
Again, just because it's used - and i'll take your word for it, on the basis that I can find no other reference to it online and no one here seems to have heard of it - doesn't mean it's correct to use it as such.

Ulster Scots is a good example you've given yourself - you say it's not a language - presumably those who say it is a language are wrong and don't know the definition of the word 'language'.

It's like people who'd argue that Ulster is the 6 counties - i'd tell them they're wrong too.

You made reference earlier to Northern Ireland not being a country - are people wrong if they say it is a country? Or is it okay to ascribe whatever definition you want to a word - to use artistic licence?
Apart from having effectively been granted country status in soccer, NI is not a country in the same way as other countries - gov , law etc etc.

While I don't believe it is a real country, people can call it one if they like.

Don't want to dwell on it but aside from the colloquialism,
I wrote about the six counties calling them a state, and my meaning in my sentence was not one of a political state.
You may not agree with my word usage but that's my perogative. It's not school or for anyone else to correct. It's not as if others don't do the same.
The self appointed grammar police on here are bad enough with their ignorant nit picking!
Imo its actually bad manners apart from anything else.I am not going to keep on about this.  I know I should have ignored it earlier.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 25, 2013, 09:28:34 PM
I hadn't realised you were so sensitive. Or that it was so ignorant or bad mannered to debate a point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 25, 2013, 09:42:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
" Figures released today by the Standards Commission show political parties disclosed donations worth just €33,606 for 2012.

Donations disclosed by the Socialist Party amounted to €24,600; Sinn Féin disclosed €6,000 and Comhar Chríostaí - The Christian Solidarity Party disclosed €3,006.

No other party disclosed any donations in 2012".

Does this mean that none of the SF TDs donate any of their Salaries to the Party ( other than the €6k - from Aengus I believe)?
Or else the Party made a false return? I would estimate that if they were keeping to their oft stated practice of donating anything above the average industrial wage to the party each TD would be donating about €20k per annum.

Nally/Lawnseed please clarify  ;D
Some creative cross-border accounting possibly? Donations don't have to be published in the north - and I'm not certain, but I don't think donations are capped in the north either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 10:27:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 08:28:49 PM
The self appointed grammar police on here are bad enough with their ignorant educated nit picking!
Imo its actually bad manners

Basic grammatical errors like that are most offensive to us ladeens
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 10:36:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 10:27:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 08:28:49 PM
The self appointed grammar police on here are bad enough with their ignorant nit picking!
Imo its actually bad manners

Basic grammatical errors like that are most offensive to us ladeens
somewhere in the realm of hypocrisy and irony
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 25, 2013, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 10:27:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 08:28:49 PM
The self appointed grammar police on here are bad enough with their ignorant educated nit picking!
Imo its actually bad manners

Basic grammatical errors like that are most offensive to us ladeens
And is ignorant not the opposite of educated?
:P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 10:56:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 25, 2013, 09:28:34 PM
I hadn't realised you were so sensitive. Or that it was so ignorant or bad mannered to debate a point.
Dont think I could ever be accused of sensitivity.
nope - bad manners to try to tell people what they mean or what they can or cannot write.
dont try and kid yourself you were indulging in debate. I should of ignored you rather than tried to take time and explain.
Others would have told you to f off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 11:11:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 10:56:39 PM
. I should of ignored you .
Lynchboy - that's a mortaler altogether  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 26, 2013, 07:18:05 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 25, 2013, 10:56:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 25, 2013, 09:28:34 PM
I hadn't realised you were so sensitive. Or that it was so ignorant or bad mannered to debate a point.
Dont think I could ever be accused of sensitivity.
nope - bad manners to try to tell people what they mean or what they can or cannot write.
dont try and kid yourself you were indulging in debate. I should of ignored you rather than tried to take time and explain.
Others would have told you to f off.
You just have been.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 26, 2013, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
" Figures released today by the Standards Commission show political parties disclosed donations worth just €33,606 for 2012.

Donations disclosed by the Socialist Party amounted to €24,600; Sinn Féin disclosed €6,000 and Comhar Chríostaí - The Christian Solidarity Party disclosed €3,006.

No other party disclosed any donations in 2012".

Does this mean that none of the SF TDs donate any of their Salaries to the Party ( other than the €6k - from Aengus I believe)?
Or else the Party made a false return? I would estimate that if they were keeping to their oft stated practice of donating anything above the average industrial wage to the party each TD would be donating about €20k per annum.

Nally/Lawnseed please clarify  ;D
i'm not too well up in the donations dept (but i'd be willing to get any spare money) its hardly likely given the present shortage of spare cash that any party would get many donations
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 26, 2013, 08:48:25 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 03, 2013, 09:41:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 02, 2013, 05:56:18 PM
do you know that over 12000 people were employed in hydro powered mills on the bann river alone. that energy is still flowing except now we ignore it. infact given the higher rainfall.. well you don't need me to spell it out. to

Way ahead of you guys in the advanced South.  We have harnessed the power of the biggest river in the island and it is driving a massive 85MW turbine!

It's great carbon neutral energy at that massive level.  (Compared to paltry 915MW that Moneypoint produces down river). Now some critics point out that it dries up the fishing in around Limerick but sur' their loss is someone elses gain.  There's also a bit of flooding up river but again that most them backward crowd in Connaught...not a bit of harm to them.

So yes, if put a few hundred hydro stations on Ulsters rivers you will get thousands of Megawatts.  Note though it will have a massive impact on the fishing and tourism in the likes of Fermanagh.  (Then again Fermanagh consists of lakes and Protestants so Shinners may not be too bothered).  Also be prepared for the flooding upstream from the needed dams.  (Again maybe it could be arranged to divert to Protestant areas).....

They do you a disservice on this site, your hydro-electric scheme could be the blow for Irish freedom that 30 years of war never achieved.

Tiocfaidh ár thuile!

/Jim.
just a wee update on the hydro story. i'm told that a private company intends to reinstate the hydro scheme that used to drive the linen mill in gilford. there is almost a mile of mile-race to be re-excavated and decent sized water turbine to be fitted inside the beautiful existing mill building. what a great place for jim to move his 300 workers- into that building where the energy is cheap, theres ample free parking, good motorway/airport access and bringing vitality back to gilford. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 26, 2013, 09:13:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 26, 2013, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
" Figures released today by the Standards Commission show political parties disclosed donations worth just €33,606 for 2012.

Donations disclosed by the Socialist Party amounted to €24,600; Sinn Féin disclosed €6,000 and Comhar Chríostaí - The Christian Solidarity Party disclosed €3,006.

No other party disclosed any donations in 2012".

Does this mean that none of the SF TDs donate any of their Salaries to the Party ( other than the €6k - from Aengus I believe)?
Or else the Party made a false return? I would estimate that if they were keeping to their oft stated practice of donating anything above the average industrial wage to the party each TD would be donating about €20k per annum.

Nally/Lawnseed please clarify  ;D
i'm not too well up in the donations dept (but i'd be willing to get any spare money) its hardly likely given the present shortage of spare cash that any party would get many donations
Yes, but the question was in relation of the wages of the elected reps that are supposedly donated back to the party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 26, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 26, 2013, 09:13:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 26, 2013, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
" Figures released today by the Standards Commission show political parties disclosed donations worth just €33,606 for 2012.

Donations disclosed by the Socialist Party amounted to €24,600; Sinn Féin disclosed €6,000 and Comhar Chríostaí - The Christian Solidarity Party disclosed €3,006.

No other party disclosed any donations in 2012".

Does this mean that none of the SF TDs donate any of their Salaries to the Party ( other than the €6k - from Aengus I believe)?
Or else the Party made a false return? I would estimate that if they were keeping to their oft stated practice of donating anything above the average industrial wage to the party each TD would be donating about €20k per annum.

Nally/Lawnseed please clarify  ;D
i'm not too well up in the donations dept (but i'd be willing to get any spare money) its hardly likely given the present shortage of spare cash that any party would get many donations
Yes, but the question was in relation of the wages of the elected reps that are supposedly donated back to the party.
your aware that the wages are paid to sinn fein the party and the reps get their wages from sinn fein. so donations from reps are not necessary. personally  i've never been able to get a sinn fein rep to accept a donation
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 26, 2013, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 26, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 26, 2013, 09:13:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 26, 2013, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
" Figures released today by the Standards Commission show political parties disclosed donations worth just €33,606 for 2012.

Donations disclosed by the Socialist Party amounted to €24,600; Sinn Féin disclosed €6,000 and Comhar Chríostaí - The Christian Solidarity Party disclosed €3,006.

No other party disclosed any donations in 2012".

Does this mean that none of the SF TDs donate any of their Salaries to the Party ( other than the €6k - from Aengus I believe)?
Or else the Party made a false return? I would estimate that if they were keeping to their oft stated practice of donating anything above the average industrial wage to the party each TD would be donating about €20k per annum.

Nally/Lawnseed please clarify  ;D
i'm not too well up in the donations dept (but i'd be willing to get any spare money) its hardly likely given the present shortage of spare cash that any party would get many donations
Yes, but the question was in relation of the wages of the elected reps that are supposedly donated back to the party.
your aware that the wages are paid to sinn fein the party and the reps get their wages from sinn fein. so donations from reps are not necessary. personally  i've never been able to get a sinn fein rep to accept a donation
I think you'll find that the wages are not paid directly to the party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 27, 2013, 04:07:56 PM
I would expect that like every other Employer the Exchequer on behalf of the Govt pays salaries directly to the employees (the TDs) as obliged under Law.
What's the average per TD €96k.
Even if they have €46k in deductions that leaves 60k nett. Average Industrial wage( i.e production worker in private industry??) say 35k gross.
So does each of SF's TDs give €25k each to the Party?
Why aren't those declared?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 27, 2013, 05:26:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 27, 2013, 04:07:56 PM
I would expect that like every other Employer the Exchequer on behalf of the Govt pays salaries directly to the employees (the TDs) as obliged under Law.
What's the average per TD €96k.
Even if they have €46k in deductions that leaves 60k nett. Average Industrial wage( i.e production worker in private industry??) say 35k gross.
So does each of SF's TDs give €25k each to the Party?
Why aren't those declared?

In the south the TDs pay salaries and expenses other Party activists, so avoiding the limit on political donations. In the north paid reps hand whole salary over to Party and take AIW in return.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 28, 2013, 03:59:29 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 27, 2013, 05:26:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 27, 2013, 04:07:56 PM
I would expect that like every other Employer the Exchequer on behalf of the Govt pays salaries directly to the employees (the TDs) as obliged under Law.
What's the average per TD €96k.
Even if they have €46k in deductions that leaves 60k nett. Average Industrial wage( i.e production worker in private industry??) say 35k gross.
So does each of SF's TDs give €25k each to the Party?
Why aren't those declared?

In the south the TDs pay salaries and expenses other Party activists, so avoiding the limit on political donations. In the north paid reps hand whole salary over to Party and take AIW in return.
no no your wrong... ::) maguire knows 'all' about sinn fein ::)...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 28, 2013, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 28, 2013, 03:59:29 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 27, 2013, 05:26:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 27, 2013, 04:07:56 PM
I would expect that like every other Employer the Exchequer on behalf of the Govt pays salaries directly to the employees (the TDs) as obliged under Law.
What's the average per TD €96k.
Even if they have €46k in deductions that leaves 60k nett. Average Industrial wage( i.e production worker in private industry??) say 35k gross.
So does each of SF's TDs give €25k each to the Party?
Why aren't those declared?

In the south the TDs pay salaries and expenses other Party activists, so avoiding the limit on political donations. In the north paid reps hand whole salary over to Party and take AIW in return.
no no your wrong... ::) maguire knows 'all' about sinn fein ::)...
Nothing Ulick said contradicts what I said. Do keep up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 29, 2013, 07:42:14 PM
Was listening to Nolan this morning - a few disgruntled SF supporters over the whole gay marriage debate, some even considering a vote for the DUP (although you might well take that with a pinch of salt). It does make you wonder couple of things:

1 - How many SF supporters agree with party policy on issues other than a united Ireland - there's definitely a bloc of Catholic SF voters there who would be very conservative and opposed to the party position on social issues.
2 - Whether SF's stance on this, the Marie Stopes vote, or X legislation will have any impact come election time.
3 - Whether all SF elected reps genuinely support such motions, or whether they're just following the party line/whip (comparison to SDLP here who don't seem to have a consistent party position on this - yaes, naes and abstentions).
4 - Why SF voters take a moral objection on these issues, yet seem to be otherwise comfortable supporting a party with such links to violence in the recent past.
5 - Whether there's a support base there for a right-wing/conservative non-unionist party in the north.

For what it's worth, i'd be fairly closely aligned with SF in terms of these social issues. It just does throw up some interesting questions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 30, 2013, 11:32:40 AM
Ironic or what ?


SINN Fein leader Gerry Adams last night repeatedly denied any knowledge about a string of murders thought to have been committed by the Provisional IRA.



It came as Mr Adams attempted to clarify an apology that he made in the Dail in January this year to the families of victims of republican violence.

At the time he apologised to the families of Garda Jerry McCabe, Garda Ben O'Sullivan and the families of other members of state forces killed in the conflict.

"I'm very sorry for the pain and loss inflicted upon those families," he said.

However, when asked to clarify the apology in an interview with Miriam O'Callaghan on RTE's 'Prime Time' last night, Mr Adams issued a string of denials.

He denied being the final "court of appeal" in the suspected IRA murder of innocent farmer Tom Oliver in 1991. "Of course I deny it," he said.

Ms O'Callaghan put it to the Sinn Fein leader that it was widely believed that this was the case. Mr Adams then demanded to know the journalist's sources. He admitted that the killing was not justified.

Asked about the murder of the chief prison officer in Portlaoise, Brian Stack in 1983, Mr Adams said: "I don't know who killed him".

Asked about the murder of Garda Samuel Donegan, who died in a bomb blast after straying just over the border in 1972, he said: "I don't know who killed Garda Donegan".

He also accused those who said that he had ordered the killing of innocent Jean McConville in 1972 of "telling lies" and wanting him dead. "They thought I'd sold out," he said.

Mr Adams said he believed that any killing of a human by another human was "murder" and that the killing of agents of the state was wrong.

But he said that violence and killing was part of war. "I don't distance myself from the IRA. Until the day I die I will never distance myself from the IRA," he said.[/u]
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:47:28 AM
One thing I find ironic is that Miriam planted herself firmly in the "moving on" camp when 'her majesty' came to visit. Like most in the Dublin media, her willingness to "move on" is highly dependent on who she is talking to/about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:09:11 PM
Miriam's introduction to the show last night:

"The bloodshed is largely a thing of the past. However for those who were victims of that violence and their families, the pain and loss never goes away, and many are still seeking answers. No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered. Tonight though on Primetime, we are focusing on the actions of Republicans".

There's a shock  ::) I think what she meant to say was "No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered - however only some of the victims matter here at RTÉ. So tonight on Primetime, we are, as always, focusing on the actions of Republicans".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2013, 12:19:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:09:11 PM
Miriam's introduction to the show last night:

"The bloodshed is largely a thing of the past. However for those who were victims of that violence and their families, the pain and loss never goes away, and many are still seeking answers. No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered. Tonight though on Primetime, we are focusing on the actions of Republicans".

There's a shock  ::) I think what she meant to say was "No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered - however only some of these victims matter here at RTÉ. So tonight on Primetime, we are, as always, focusing on the actions of Republicans".

Republicans calling on republicans who fought (regardless of what they did) to be honoured are also focusing on the actions of Republicans. I don't see you criticising that, in fact quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:30:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 30, 2013, 12:19:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:09:11 PM
Miriam's introduction to the show last night:

"The bloodshed is largely a thing of the past. However for those who were victims of that violence and their families, the pain and loss never goes away, and many are still seeking answers. No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered. Tonight though on Primetime, we are focusing on the actions of Republicans".

There's a shock  ::) I think what she meant to say was "No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered - however only some of these victims matter here at RTÉ. So tonight on Primetime, we are, as always, focusing on the actions of Republicans".

Republicans calling on republicans who fought (regardless of what they did) to be honoured are also focusing on the actions of Republicans. I don't see you criticising that, in fact quite the opposite.

Elected republicans can call for whatever they want to call for. They are elected politicians and being politically biased to their own opinions is their job. They are not the state broadcaster. When Miriam or RTÉ dedicate regular shows to victims of british security force violence, then I'll say nothing more and accept them as a credible, impartial broadcaster.

P.S. When you say, "quite the opposite"....I assume you will have no problem sticking up a quote up from me where I said that that "republicans (regardless of what they did) should be honoured".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 30, 2013, 12:35:22 PM
The thing is, former members of the British security forces are not sitting in, or seeking election to the Dáil.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 30, 2013, 12:35:22 PM
The thing is, former members of the British security forces are not sitting in, or seeking election to the Dáil.
I wonder why nobody from the Labour party ever gets much of a going over from RTÉ about their past. Hmmm.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 30, 2013, 01:55:04 PM
That is a good question.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 30, 2013, 01:57:19 PM
Just watched Prime time on i player and thought Gerry had Miriam in a spin as usual.The families who want apologies should get them and those who search for the truth should be helped in every way and I have no doubt Gerry will help them were he can.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2013, 03:32:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 30, 2013, 12:35:22 PM
The thing is, former members of the British security forces are not sitting in, or seeking election to the Dáil.
I wonder why nobody from the Labour party ever gets much of a going over from RTÉ about their past. Hmmm.

They probably don't want to upset the lads who own the Printing £ machines  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2013, 07:39:51 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:30:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 30, 2013, 12:19:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:09:11 PM
Miriam's introduction to the show last night:

"The bloodshed is largely a thing of the past. However for those who were victims of that violence and their families, the pain and loss never goes away, and many are still seeking answers. No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered. Tonight though on Primetime, we are focusing on the actions of Republicans".

There's a shock  ::) I think what she meant to say was "No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered - however only some of these victims matter here at RTÉ. So tonight on Primetime, we are, as always, focusing on the actions of Republicans".

Republicans calling on republicans who fought (regardless of what they did) to be honoured are also focusing on the actions of Republicans. I don't see you criticising that, in fact quite the opposite.

Elected republicans can call for whatever they want to call for. They are elected politicians and being politically biased to their own opinions is their job. They are not the state broadcaster. When Miriam or RTÉ dedicate regular shows to victims of british security force violence, then I'll say nothing more and accept them as a credible, impartial broadcaster.

P.S. When you say, "quite the opposite"....I assume you will have no problem sticking up a quote up from me where I said that that "republicans (regardless of what they did) should be honoured".

Your argument is that elected officials can call on what they want, but journalists can't? I guess the Shinners aren't big into freedom of the press then.

And you defended Adams' call for those who fought to be honoured, without exception. Therefore 'quite the opposite' is appropriate. The search function isn't working or I would list many where you did this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 08:11:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 30, 2013, 07:39:51 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:30:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 30, 2013, 12:19:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:09:11 PM
Miriam's introduction to the show last night:

"The bloodshed is largely a thing of the past. However for those who were victims of that violence and their families, the pain and loss never goes away, and many are still seeking answers. No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered. Tonight though on Primetime, we are focusing on the actions of Republicans".

There's a shock  ::) I think what she meant to say was "No one has a monopoly on loss or grief in this bloody conflict. All sides suffered - however only some of these victims matter here at RTÉ. So tonight on Primetime, we are, as always, focusing on the actions of Republicans".

Republicans calling on republicans who fought (regardless of what they did) to be honoured are also focusing on the actions of Republicans. I don't see you criticising that, in fact quite the opposite.

Elected republicans can call for whatever they want to call for. They are elected politicians and being politically biased to their own opinions is their job. They are not the state broadcaster. When Miriam or RTÉ dedicate regular shows to victims of british security force violence, then I'll say nothing more and accept them as a credible, impartial broadcaster.

P.S. When you say, "quite the opposite"....I assume you will have no problem sticking up a quote up from me where I said that that "republicans (regardless of what they did) should be honoured".

Your argument is that elected officials can call on what they want, but journalists can't? I guess the Shinners aren't big into freedom of the press then.

And you defended Adams' call for those who fought to be honoured, without exception. Therefore 'quite the opposite' is appropriate. The search function isn't working or I would list many where you did this.
No, my argument ia that journalists for the state broadcaster have to show political balance and impartiality. Politicians don't. Again, politicians are not the state broadcaster. RTÉ are. And as for the search function, I look forward to it being rectified. Though if there are "many" instances where I "defended Adams' call for those who fought to be honoured, without exception" then surely you can find just one of them by yourself without a lot of trouble?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2013, 09:11:08 PM
You definition of 'impartiality & balance' means not focusing on the actions of Republicans when discussing Republicans. When discussing Fianna Fáil should they not focus on the actions of FFers?

This is a particularly idiotic line of argument.

Now, to save me the hassle while search is down, do you support Adams' call for all those who fought for Irish freedom to be honoured or not?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 30, 2013, 09:23:52 PM
My guess as to why miriam ocallaghan always seems imbalanced or anti sf / anti republican in her supposedly professional capacity is down to a lingering issue she has with her ex husband who has republican tainted views but in spite of this always comes across as the consumate professional unlike his ex bird!

As for adams calling for republicans who fought for Irish freedom to be honoured- pity it was him who said it, but it is a good idea.

The 1916 anniversary might come too soon for more recent candidates to be included, but in time they all will - as at one point in time the 1916 people were not held in high regard either, so expect when the raw recent feeling has subsided, they will all be venerated.
Prob in the reunified Ireland at that stage!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2013, 09:28:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 30, 2013, 09:23:52 PM
My guess as to why miriam ocallaghan always seems imbalanced or anti sf / anti republican in her supposedly professional capacity is down to a lingering issue she has with her ex husband who has republican tainted views but in spite of this always comes across as the consumate professional unlike his ex bird!

As for adams calling for republicans who fought for Irish freedom to be honoured- pity it was him who said it, but it is a good idea.

The 1916 anniversary might come too soon for more recent candidates to be included, but in time they all will - as at one point in time the 1916 people were not held in high regard either, so expect when the raw recent feeling has subsided, they will all be venerated.
Prob in the reunified Ireland at that stage!

You see this is a reasonable line of argument. Calling for people to be honoured while the families of their innocent victims are still alive is completely different from doing it 100 years later. Even Saints have to wait to be canonised.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 09:43:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 30, 2013, 09:23:52 PM
My guess as to why miriam ocallaghan always seems imbalanced or anti sf / anti republican in her supposedly professional capacity is down to a lingering issue she has with her ex husband who has republican tainted views but in spite of this always comes across as the consumate professional unlike his ex bird!

As for adams calling for republicans who fought for Irish freedom to be honoured- pity it was him who said it, but it is a good idea.

The 1916 anniversary might come too soon for more recent candidates to be included, but in time they all will - as at one point in time the 1916 people were not held in high regard either, so expect when the raw recent feeling has subsided, they will all be venerated.
Prob in the reunified Ireland at that stage!
Even those who killed Ronan Kerr?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 30, 2013, 09:11:08 PM
You definition of 'impartiality & balance' means not focusing on the actions of Republicans when discussing Republicans. When discussing Fianna Fáil should they not focus on the actions of FFers?
This is a particularly idiotic line of argument.
No, my issue is not the discussion "of Republicans when discussing Republicans", my point is that when it comes to the war in the north, RTÉ, and in particularly Miriam O'Callaghan, would have us all believe that there was no conflict between different sides, but just a thirty year campaign of random murders by the IRA, and that Adams or McGuinness knows the circumstances behind each and every death. This is not balanced reporting. Again, a politician is not a state broadcaster. A state broadcaster is supposed to be impartial. Bringing on an elected politician and accusing him of being responsible for the death of a named individual, without a single, solitary SHRED of evidence, as Miriam O'Callaghan did last night, is not impartial and balanced journalism from the state broadcaster. Have you ever wondered why RTÉ don't seem too bothered about the pasts of certain Labour Party individuals?

Quote from: muppet on April 30, 2013, 09:11:08 PM
Now, to save me the hassle while search is down, do you support Adams' call for all those who fought for Irish freedom to be honoured or not?
By all means, wait until the search function comes back. I'm looking forward to see what it turns up. What sort of honour do you have in mind anyway?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
Bringing on an elected politician and accusing him of being responsible for the death of a named individual, without a single, solitary SHRED of evidence, as Miriam O'Callaghan did last night, is not impartial and balanced journalism from the state broadcaster.
Do you think she'd be worried that Gerry might sue for libel?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
Bringing on an elected politician and accusing him of being responsible for the death of a named individual, without a single, solitary SHRED of evidence, as Miriam O'Callaghan did last night, is not impartial and balanced journalism from the state broadcaster.
Do you think she'd be worried that Gerry might sue for libel?
Do you think making direct allegations that an interviewee was responsible for a named man's death is acceptable journalism from a state broadcaster?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 11:35:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
Bringing on an elected politician and accusing him of being responsible for the death of a named individual, without a single, solitary SHRED of evidence, as Miriam O'Callaghan did last night, is not impartial and balanced journalism from the state broadcaster.
Do you think she'd be worried that Gerry might sue for libel?
Do you think making direct allegations that an interviewee was responsible for a named man's death is acceptable journalism from a state broadcaster?
I suppose it depends if she can stand over them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: camanchero on April 30, 2013, 11:40:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 30, 2013, 09:28:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 30, 2013, 09:23:52 PM
My guess as to why miriam ocallaghan always seems imbalanced or anti sf / anti republican in her supposedly professional capacity is down to a lingering issue she has with her ex husband who has republican tainted views but in spite of this always comes across as the consumate professional unlike his ex bird!

As for adams calling for republicans who fought for Irish freedom to be honoured- pity it was him who said it, but it is a good idea.

The 1916 anniversary might come too soon for more recent candidates to be included, but in time they all will - as at one point in time the 1916 people were not held in high regard either, so expect when the raw recent feeling has subsided, they will all be venerated.
Prob in the reunified Ireland at that stage!

You see this is a reasonable line of argument. Calling for people to be honoured while the families of their innocent victims are still alive is completely different from doing it 100 years later. Even Saints have to wait to be canonised.
I'm not calling for it, but it will happen.
The only tangiable is time.
I'm sure their are a lot of families affected by 1916 or 1921 civil war, war of independence - but enough time has passed by for their affront to be diluted.
Same thing will happen again eventually!
IMO - esp if 1916 and 1921 are anything to go by - sure isn't Michael Collins venerated more now than back then!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:45:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 11:35:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
Bringing on an elected politician and accusing him of being responsible for the death of a named individual, without a single, solitary SHRED of evidence, as Miriam O'Callaghan did last night, is not impartial and balanced journalism from the state broadcaster.
Do you think she'd be worried that Gerry might sue for libel?
Do you think making direct allegations that an interviewee was responsible for a named man's death is acceptable journalism from a state broadcaster?
I suppose it depends if she can stand over them.
She didn't make much of a job of doing that when challenged. She just openly accused Adams of being responsible for a mans death. Similar to when she came out with the infamous line, "how do you square, Martin McGuinness, with your God, the fact that you were involved in the murders of so many people". This from the state broadcaster!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: camanchero on April 30, 2013, 11:52:55 PM
She is a woman scorned Nally - that's the crux, with impartiality and professionalism out the window as she's on a personal crusade against republicans and sf as she identifies her ex husband with them!
Don't look for professionalism in rte , the dail or politics.
All self serving me feiner unprofessional cnuts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2013, 02:47:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
By all means, wait until the search function comes back. I'm looking forward to see what it turns up. What sort of honour do you have in mind anyway?

Quotedo you support Adams' call for all those who fought for Irish freedom to be honoured or not

Well?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 01, 2013, 03:23:01 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 30, 2013, 12:35:22 PM
The thing is, former members of the British security forces are not sitting in, or seeking election to the Dáil.
I wonder why nobody from the Labour party ever gets much of a going over from RTÉ about their past. Hmmm.

Probably because the are not as spine chillingly annoying as you lads and don't sound like they talk with a bad version of a Scottish accent all the time.

f**k the general Scottish anger in the Ulster accent turns my stomach,
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 01, 2013, 11:21:54 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 01, 2013, 03:23:01 AM
f**k the general Scottish anger in the Ulster accent turns my stomach,
I think you'll find that there are a number of "Ulster" accents.
There's not much Scotch in a Cavan, West Donegal, South Donegal, South Armagh, most of Monaghan accent e.g.
Also would you know the difference between a Ballinamore (Connacht) and a Killeshandra( Ulster) accent?.

Your use of the word "Ulster" would suggest you've spent too long across the water listening to their media ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2013, 12:07:50 PM
QuoteI think you'll find that there are a number of "Ulster" accents.
There's not much Scotch in a Cavan, West Donegal, South Donegal, South Armagh, most of Monaghan accent

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/English_dialects_in_Ulster_contrast.png/300px-English_dialects_in_Ulster_contrast.png)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 01, 2013, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:45:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 11:35:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
Bringing on an elected politician and accusing him of being responsible for the death of a named individual, without a single, solitary SHRED of evidence, as Miriam O'Callaghan did last night, is not impartial and balanced journalism from the state broadcaster.
Do you think she'd be worried that Gerry might sue for libel?
Do you think making direct allegations that an interviewee was responsible for a named man's death is acceptable journalism from a state broadcaster?
I suppose it depends if she can stand over them.
She didn't make much of a job of doing that when challenged. She just openly accused Adams of being responsible for a mans death. Similar to when she came out with the infamous line, "how do you square, Martin McGuinness, with your God, the fact that you were involved in the murders of so many people". This from the state broadcaster!
Presumably she's willing to stand over them if Adams takes legal proceedings against her.

In relation to the 'fact' point, maybe 'logical conclusion' would have been a better way of putting it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:45:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 11:35:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
Bringing on an elected politician and accusing him of being responsible for the death of a named individual, without a single, solitary SHRED of evidence, as Miriam O'Callaghan did last night, is not impartial and balanced journalism from the state broadcaster.
Do you think she'd be worried that Gerry might sue for libel?
Do you think making direct allegations that an interviewee was responsible for a named man's death is acceptable journalism from a state broadcaster?
I suppose it depends if she can stand over them.
She didn't make much of a job of doing that when challenged. She just openly accused Adams of being responsible for a mans death. Similar to when she came out with the infamous line, "how do you square, Martin McGuinness, with your God, the fact that you were involved in the murders of so many people". This from the state broadcaster!

According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 01, 2013, 06:23:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 01, 2013, 12:07:50 PM
QuoteI think you'll find that there are a number of "Ulster" accents.
There's not much Scotch in a Cavan, West Donegal, South Donegal, South Armagh, most of Monaghan accent

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/English_dialects_in_Ulster_contrast.png/300px-English_dialects_in_Ulster_contrast.png)

Stop confusing an accent with a dialect lads
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:45:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 11:35:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
Bringing on an elected politician and accusing him of being responsible for the death of a named individual, without a single, solitary SHRED of evidence, as Miriam O'Callaghan did last night, is not impartial and balanced journalism from the state broadcaster.
Do you think she'd be worried that Gerry might sue for libel?
Do you think making direct allegations that an interviewee was responsible for a named man's death is acceptable journalism from a state broadcaster?
I suppose it depends if she can stand over them.
She didn't make much of a job of doing that when challenged. She just openly accused Adams of being responsible for a mans death. Similar to when she came out with the infamous line, "how do you square, Martin McGuinness, with your God, the fact that you were involved in the murders of so many people". This from the state broadcaster!

According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:53:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 01, 2013, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:45:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 11:35:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 30, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
Bringing on an elected politician and accusing him of being responsible for the death of a named individual, without a single, solitary SHRED of evidence, as Miriam O'Callaghan did last night, is not impartial and balanced journalism from the state broadcaster.
Do you think she'd be worried that Gerry might sue for libel?
Do you think making direct allegations that an interviewee was responsible for a named man's death is acceptable journalism from a state broadcaster?
I suppose it depends if she can stand over them.
She didn't make much of a job of doing that when challenged. She just openly accused Adams of being responsible for a mans death. Similar to when she came out with the infamous line, "how do you square, Martin McGuinness, with your God, the fact that you were involved in the murders of so many people". This from the state broadcaster!
Presumably she's willing to stand over them if Adams takes legal proceedings against her.

In relation to the 'fact' point, maybe 'logical conclusion' would have been a better way of putting it?
Wreckless accusations of murder without a source: acceptable standards from the state broadcaster or not?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 02, 2013, 06:24:26 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.
dont think gerry will law her, sinn fein have lawed jao duffy several times over his comments. poor jao bollix comes out of it looking like the victom. better to keep your powder dry and hit her with it during a tv debate when shes on her high horse. ala sean gallagher
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2013, 09:34:00 AM
One good thing to come out of this spat is that it seems that at long last "Lost Lives (RTE Edition)" is gaining more entries, but appears still to be a short tome.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 02:30:12 PM
Ah well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 02, 2013, 02:40:16 PM
This is all getting very meta.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 03:46:30 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/CX115_zpsd1285102.png)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on May 02, 2013, 04:13:43 PM
There's a serious obsession with all things Sinn Fein on this site. As for the title of the thread  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on May 02, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

Gerry Adams was a senior member of the IRA. It is entirely reasonable for a journalist to ask him about the activities of the IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on May 02, 2013, 06:27:25 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

Gerry Adams was a senior member of the IRA. It is entirely reasonable for a journalist to ask him about the activities of the IRA.

If the evidence of him being in the IRA is so compelling then why hasn't he been charged with membership of an illegal organisation?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

Gerry Adams was a senior member of the IRA. It is entirely reasonable for a journalist to ask him about the activities of the IRA.

What part of "allegation involving a named individual" do you find so hard to grasp here?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

Gerry Adams was a senior member of the IRA. It is entirely reasonable for a journalist to ask him about the activities of the IRA.

What part of "allegation involving a named individual" do you find so hard to grasp here?

I don't find it hard to grasp at all. She asked a senior IRA figure about specific IRA activities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

Gerry Adams was a senior member of the IRA. It is entirely reasonable for a journalist to ask him about the activities of the IRA.

What part of "allegation involving a named individual" do you find so hard to grasp here?

I don't find it hard to grasp at all. She asked a senior IRA figure about specific IRA activities.
No, she made a very specific accusation about a named individual's death. This is not acceptable, particularly from the state broadcaster. Amazing you need that spelt out to you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

Gerry Adams was a senior member of the IRA. It is entirely reasonable for a journalist to ask him about the activities of the IRA.

What part of "allegation involving a named individual" do you find so hard to grasp here?

I don't find it hard to grasp at all. She asked a senior IRA figure about specific IRA activities.
No, she made a very specific accusation about a named individual's death. This is not acceptable, particularly from the state broadcaster. Amazing you need that spelt out to you.

State broadcasters have the same rights to freedom of speech as the rest of us. If Gerry hadn't been in the IRA he wouldn't be getting these questions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:19:56 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

Gerry Adams was a senior member of the IRA. It is entirely reasonable for a journalist to ask him about the activities of the IRA.

What part of "allegation involving a named individual" do you find so hard to grasp here?

I don't find it hard to grasp at all. She asked a senior IRA figure about specific IRA activities.
No, she made a very specific accusation about a named individual's death. This is not acceptable, particularly from the state broadcaster. Amazing you need that spelt out to you.

State broadcasters have the same rights to freedom of speech as the rest of us. If Gerry hadn't been in the IRA he wouldn't be getting these questions.
Right. Why do certain individuals from the Labour Party not face such allegations?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:26:20 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:19:56 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

Gerry Adams was a senior member of the IRA. It is entirely reasonable for a journalist to ask him about the activities of the IRA.

What part of "allegation involving a named individual" do you find so hard to grasp here?

I don't find it hard to grasp at all. She asked a senior IRA figure about specific IRA activities.
No, she made a very specific accusation about a named individual's death. This is not acceptable, particularly from the state broadcaster. Amazing you need that spelt out to you.

State broadcasters have the same rights to freedom of speech as the rest of us. If Gerry hadn't been in the IRA he wouldn't be getting these questions.
Right. Why do certain individuals from the Labour Party not face such allegations?

Which "certain individuals" should face such allegations?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: camanchero on May 02, 2013, 07:34:41 PM
None!
That's why ocallaghan was completely out of order if not crossing the legal line by implying adams was in some way responsible for that named persons death!

I doubt if Adams would want the hoo ha of pressing legal charges over this ( presumably he has a case - defamation) so she and rte are prob going to avoid a repeat perf of last years fiasco where they had to she'll out for those allegations against that priest.

Ocallaghan is a daft unprofessional bint!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 02, 2013, 08:12:09 PM
Quote from: camanchero on May 02, 2013, 07:34:41 PM
None!
That's why ocallaghan was completely out of order if not crossing the legal line by implying adams was in some way responsible for that named persons death!

I doubt if Adams would want the hoo ha of pressing legal charges over this ( presumably he has a case - defamation) so she and rte are prob going to avoid a repeat perf of last years fiasco where they had to she'll out for those allegations against that priest.

Ocallaghan is a daft unprofessional bint!
Big tits though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 02, 2013, 10:15:38 PM
Quote from: camanchero on May 02, 2013, 07:34:41 PM
None!
That's why ocallaghan was completely out of order if not crossing the legal line by implying adams was in some way responsible for that named persons death!

I doubt if Adams would want the hoo ha of pressing legal charges over this ( presumably he has a case - defamation) so she and rte are prob going to avoid a repeat perf of last years fiasco where they had to she'll out for those allegations against that priest.

Ocallaghan is a daft unprofessional bint!
So you reckon he won't take legal action because of the hassle?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 02, 2013, 10:27:39 PM
all he had to say was "if you have evidence you should take it to the guards or psni" end of. she'd have shit herself
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 02, 2013, 11:17:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 02, 2013, 10:27:39 PM
all he had to say was "if you have evidence you should take it to the guards or psni" end of. she'd have shit herself
I doubt that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2013, 01:54:07 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 02, 2013, 10:27:39 PM
all he had to say was "if you have evidence you should take it to the guards or psni" end of. she'd have shit herself

You're not a real Shinner are you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on May 03, 2013, 02:11:51 AM
Well if she does evidence and is happy to tell the nation about it then surely she has a duty to inform the authorities?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 09:56:55 AM
It always cracks me up when it comes to Northern Ireland how everyone defends the necessity of violence yet everyone denies having ever pulled a trigger. Who performed these killings? Martin Corry's beast (http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/separating-fact-from-folklore-226559.html)?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 03, 2013, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 09:56:55 AM
It always cracks me up when it comes to Northern Ireland how everyone defends the necessity of violence yet everyone denies having ever pulled a trigger. Who performed these killings? Martin Corry's beast (http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/separating-fact-from-folklore-226559.html)?
Do you expect everyone who ever pulled a trigger to suddenly volunteer themselves to go to jail?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 03, 2013, 10:47:25 AM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:26:20 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:19:56 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
So no comment on the murders themselves but blustering outrage at the commentary on the murders.
Standard response there hardy. Don't look at the conflict as a whole, and the context of it. Just pick one victim that suits the agenda and start the whatabouteries, eh.

Ah well, I didn't really expect you t be able to justify such a skewed set of sympathies.
"Ah well". Another standard response.


"Another standard response". Another standard response.

Speaking of responses, I haven't heard back from you on:

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
According to Nally Stand "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion."
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19293.msg962172#msg962172

And the dogs in the street also know that Adams and McGuinness were senior figures in the IRA.
Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

You said "The dogs in the street know these loyalists were acting with security force collusion" because it is well known that the security forces colluded with loyalist paramilitaries. Gerry Adams was asked about a murder committed by the IRA because it is well known that he was a senior figure in the IRA.

Not realy answering my question there are you. Me saying that the dogs in the street knew about collusion is a bit different than a journalist at the state broadcaster on live tv making a direct accusation of involvement in the death of a named individual, wouldn't you say???

Gerry Adams was a senior member of the IRA. It is entirely reasonable for a journalist to ask him about the activities of the IRA.

What part of "allegation involving a named individual" do you find so hard to grasp here?

I don't find it hard to grasp at all. She asked a senior IRA figure about specific IRA activities.
No, she made a very specific accusation about a named individual's death. This is not acceptable, particularly from the state broadcaster. Amazing you need that spelt out to you.

State broadcasters have the same rights to freedom of speech as the rest of us. If Gerry hadn't been in the IRA he wouldn't be getting these questions.
Right. Why do certain individuals from the Labour Party not face such allegations?

Which "certain individuals" should face such allegations?
Dec, seriously, you're cluthcing at straws here. Believe what you want about Gerry Adams' IRA membership but making a specific accusation to him on live TV about being responsible for the death of a NAMED INDIVIDUAL without a source is a whole other matter. It is gutter journalism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 10:52:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 03, 2013, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 09:56:55 AM
It always cracks me up when it comes to Northern Ireland how everyone defends the necessity of violence yet everyone denies having ever pulled a trigger. Who performed these killings? Martin Corry's beast (http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/separating-fact-from-folklore-226559.html)?
Do you expect everyone who ever pulled a trigger to suddenly volunteer themselves to go to jail?

If the person did it in what they believed was a virtuous cause, yes. As per the Good Friday Agreement, anyone who fessed up now would not spend a day in jail, so that person would have nothing to lose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 03, 2013, 11:07:59 AM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 10:52:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 03, 2013, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 09:56:55 AM
It always cracks me up when it comes to Northern Ireland how everyone defends the necessity of violence yet everyone denies having ever pulled a trigger. Who performed these killings? Martin Corry's beast (http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/separating-fact-from-folklore-226559.html)?
Do you expect everyone who ever pulled a trigger to suddenly volunteer themselves to go to jail?

If the person did it in what they believed was a virtuous cause, yes. As per the Good Friday Agreement, anyone who fessed up now would not spend a day in jail, so that person would have nothing to lose.

People can still be convicted of activities pre-GFA. Gerry McGeough for example was charged in 2009 over a shooting in 1981, and served two years of a 20 year sentence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 03, 2013, 11:07:59 AM
People can still be convicted of activities pre-GFA. Gerry McGeough for example was charged in 2009 over a shooting in 1981, and served two years of a 20 year sentence.

I stand corrected, it seems you have to have served two years (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16443482) in a British or Irish prison to be eligible for release under licence. Not thinking of anyone, but I wonder does internment count?

Anyway, I guess we can conclude from this that it's only the thought of those two years that is preventing scores of Provos stepping forward to take the credit for their role in the fight for Irish freedom. Must be hard on them, having to be so modest about it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 03, 2013, 12:49:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 06:06:20 PM
Quote from: ranch on April 23, 2013, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 23, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Northern Ireland is an entity, a jurisdiction and no amount of political contortion will change that. A majority of natioanlists in the north accept that, whether they like it or not is a moot point. SF have accepted that until a majority say otherwise that it exists. None of this makes it a country...it clearly isn't.
On another point all the political posturing that SF did over Sean Brady and President Gerry is quite happily covering up for the brother.

By testifying against him in court? Strange logic.
He doesn't have much choice at this stage surely? I assume apples is referring to what happened before this case became public.
Sorry let me clarify...he sat on information just as Sean Brady did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 03, 2013, 05:57:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2013, 12:49:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 23, 2013, 06:06:20 PM
Quote from: ranch on April 23, 2013, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 23, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Northern Ireland is an entity, a jurisdiction and no amount of political contortion will change that. A majority of natioanlists in the north accept that, whether they like it or not is a moot point. SF have accepted that until a majority say otherwise that it exists. None of this makes it a country...it clearly isn't.
On another point all the political posturing that SF did over Sean Brady and President Gerry is quite happily covering up for the brother.

By testifying against him in court? Strange logic.
He doesn't have much choice at this stage surely? I assume apples is referring to what happened before this case became public.
Sorry let me clarify...he sat on information just as Sean Brady did.
sinn fein certainly didnt posture about brady. they took a stand.
your luckly apples that a problem like that of the adams family isnt at your door. i wonder what you would do..? sean brady did all he could to cover up the crimes of people (to which he was not related) against little kids in their care.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 03, 2013, 06:07:59 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 10:52:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 03, 2013, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 09:56:55 AM
It always cracks me up when it comes to Northern Ireland how everyone defends the necessity of violence yet everyone denies having ever pulled a trigger. Who performed these killings? Martin Corry's beast (http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/separating-fact-from-folklore-226559.html)?
Do you expect everyone who ever pulled a trigger to suddenly volunteer themselves to go to jail?

If the person did it in what they believed was a virtuous cause, yes. As per the Good Friday Agreement, anyone who fessed up now would not spend a day in jail, so that person would have nothing to lose.
true! and gerry adams is the guy who called 'again' not 2wks ago in mayo for a truth and reconcilation board to be set up as happened in south africa.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2013, 08:37:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 03, 2013, 06:07:59 PM
[ gerry adams is the guy who called ...... for a truth and reconcilation board to be set up as happened in south africa.

Will Gerry appear before it and tell all? ;)
Or will he be in charge of it  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2013, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 03, 2013, 06:07:59 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 10:52:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 03, 2013, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 09:56:55 AM
It always cracks me up when it comes to Northern Ireland how everyone defends the necessity of violence yet everyone denies having ever pulled a trigger. Who performed these killings? Martin Corry's beast (http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/separating-fact-from-folklore-226559.html)?
Do you expect everyone who ever pulled a trigger to suddenly volunteer themselves to go to jail?

If the person did it in what they believed was a virtuous cause, yes. As per the Good Friday Agreement, anyone who fessed up now would not spend a day in jail, so that person would have nothing to lose.
true! and gerry adams is the guy who called 'again' not 2wks ago in mayo for a truth and reconcilation board to be set up as happened in south africa.
The Shinners aren't content unless they are spunking tax payers money.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on May 03, 2013, 08:44:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 03, 2013, 06:07:59 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 10:52:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 03, 2013, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: deiseach on May 03, 2013, 09:56:55 AM
It always cracks me up when it comes to Northern Ireland how everyone defends the necessity of violence yet everyone denies having ever pulled a trigger. Who performed these killings? Martin Corry's beast (http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/separating-fact-from-folklore-226559.html)?
Do you expect everyone who ever pulled a trigger to suddenly volunteer themselves to go to jail?

If the person did it in what they believed was a virtuous cause, yes. As per the Good Friday Agreement, anyone who fessed up now would not spend a day in jail, so that person would have nothing to lose.
true! and gerry adams is the guy who called 'again' not 2wks ago in mayo for a truth and reconcilation board to be set up as happened in south africa.

He keeps calling for it because he knows it will never happen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 04, 2013, 08:07:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2013, 08:37:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 03, 2013, 06:07:59 PM
[ gerry adams is the guy who called ...... for a truth and reconcilation board to be set up as happened in south africa.

Will Gerry appear before it and tell all? ;)
Or will he be in charge of it  ;) ;)
well there wouldnt be much point in any of 'ye lot' showing up for a TRUTH session would there?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 04, 2013, 09:00:24 AM
I'm unconvinced by this idea of a truth and reconciliation commission. Does anyone really believe that this will uncover the full truth? Will senior members of SF admit to individual atrocities? Will they provide all the gruesome details? Does anyone believe the British state would come clean on the extent of its involvement? I don't think so. It's a smokescreen for people to avoid telling the truth now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 04, 2013, 02:35:27 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 04, 2013, 08:07:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2013, 08:37:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 03, 2013, 06:07:59 PM
[ gerry adams is the guy who called ...... for a truth and reconcilation board to be set up as happened in south africa.

Will Gerry appear before it and tell all? ;)
Or will he be in charge of it  ;) ;)
well there wouldnt be much point in any of 'ye lot' showing up for a TRUTH session would there?

Who are "ye lot" - the non SF Gaaboarders??
You're great entertainment Lawnseed - keep it up  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 04, 2013, 09:38:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 04, 2013, 09:00:24 AM
I'm unconvinced by this idea of a truth and reconciliation commission. Does anyone really believe that this will uncover the full truth? Will senior members of SF admit to individual atrocities? Will they provide all the gruesome details? Does anyone believe the British state would come clean on the extent of its involvement? I don't think so. It's a smokescreen for people to avoid telling the truth now.
may big al will come clean about his horticultural activities
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 04, 2013, 11:16:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 04, 2013, 09:00:24 AM
I'm unconvinced by this idea of a truth and reconciliation commission. Does anyone really believe that this will uncover the full truth? Will senior members of SF admit to individual atrocities? Will they provide all the gruesome details? Does anyone believe the British state would come clean on the extent of its involvement? I don't think so. It's a smokescreen for people to avoid telling the truth now.

Alistair Campbell is organising it and will make a comprehensive and truthful report after he has heard all the evidence.

So we can all be assured that the full truth will finally emerge on all sides.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 04, 2013, 11:25:42 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2013, 11:16:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 04, 2013, 09:00:24 AM
I'm unconvinced by this idea of a truth and reconciliation commission. Does anyone really believe that this will uncover the full truth? Will senior members of SF admit to individual atrocities? Will they provide all the gruesome details? Does anyone believe the British state would come clean on the extent of its involvement? I don't think so. It's a smokescreen for people to avoid telling the truth now.

Alistair Campbell is organising it and will make a comprehensive and truthful report after he has heard all the evidence.

So we can all be assured that the full truth will finally emerge on all sides.
is he providing refreshments? (incase ming wants to attend)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 05, 2013, 12:19:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 04, 2013, 11:25:42 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2013, 11:16:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 04, 2013, 09:00:24 AM
I'm unconvinced by this idea of a truth and reconciliation commission. Does anyone really believe that this will uncover the full truth? Will senior members of SF admit to individual atrocities? Will they provide all the gruesome details? Does anyone believe the British state would come clean on the extent of its involvement? I don't think so. It's a smokescreen for people to avoid telling the truth now.

Alistair Campbell is organising it and will make a comprehensive and truthful report after he has heard all the evidence.

So we can all be assured that the full truth will finally emerge on all sides.
is he providing refreshments? (incase ming wants to attend)
Alister Campbell? What are you on about?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 05, 2013, 12:38:54 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 05, 2013, 12:19:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 04, 2013, 11:25:42 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2013, 11:16:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 04, 2013, 09:00:24 AM
I'm unconvinced by this idea of a truth and reconciliation commission. Does anyone really believe that this will uncover the full truth? Will senior members of SF admit to individual atrocities? Will they provide all the gruesome details? Does anyone believe the British state would come clean on the extent of its involvement? I don't think so. It's a smokescreen for people to avoid telling the truth now.

Alistair Campbell is organising it and will make a comprehensive and truthful report after he has heard all the evidence.

So we can all be assured that the full truth will finally emerge on all sides.
is he providing refreshments? (incase ming wants to attend)
Alister Campbell? What are you on about?
the brightlight confused me  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 09, 2013, 10:30:13 PM
how'd gerry get on with yer man
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 09, 2013, 10:36:59 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 09, 2013, 10:30:13 PM
how'd gerry get on with yer man

Must have done OK or we would have heard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 10, 2013, 04:35:25 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2013, 10:36:59 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 09, 2013, 10:30:13 PM
how'd gerry get on with yer man

Must have done OK or we would have heard.

How'd you get on in Castlebar? Any socialising?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:09 PM
gerry seems have offer to try to help the stacks and they are to meet again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 11, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Not a mission.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 12, 2013, 09:13:44 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:09 PM
gerry seems have offer to try to help the stacks and they are to meet again.

He ll do nothing , you can be sure of that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 12, 2013, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap

Always would have had Conor Murphy down as a potential leader but that business with the water boys seems to have damaged him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 11, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Not a mission.
i'd pay good money to see him tear lumps off the gimp kenny
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 11, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Not a mission.
i'd pay good money to see him tear lumps off the gimp kenny

He'd have to be elected to Dáil Éireann first
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 11, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Not a mission.
i'd pay good money to see him tear lumps off the gimp kenny

He'd have to be elected to Dáil Éireann first
yeah because theres no way the gimp kenny would face him on the telly he wouldnt even face gerry never mind john. yep if john came on the scene fine gael would have the gimp back in the cupboard so fast his feet would never touch the ground.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 11, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Not a mission.
i'd pay good money to see him tear lumps off the gimp kenny

He'd have to be elected to Dáil Éireann first
yeah because theres no way the gimp kenny would face him on the telly he wouldnt even face gerry never mind john. yep if john came on the scene fine gael would have the gimp back in the cupboard so fast his feet would never touch the ground.

It was Bertie who was living in the cupboard - you need to brush up on Irish politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 12, 2013, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 11, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Not a mission.
i'd pay good money to see him tear lumps off the gimp kenny

He'd have to be elected to Dáil Éireann first
yeah because theres no way the gimp kenny would face him on the telly he wouldnt even face gerry never mind john. yep if john came on the scene fine gael would have the gimp back in the cupboard so fast his feet would never touch the ground.

It was Bertie who was living in the cupboard - you need to brush up on Irish politics.

;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 12, 2013, 08:25:07 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 11, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Not a mission.
i'd pay good money to see him tear lumps off the gimp kenny

He'd have to be elected to Dáil Éireann first
yeah because theres no way the gimp kenny would face him on the telly he wouldnt even face gerry never mind john. yep if john came on the scene fine gael would have the gimp back in the cupboard so fast his feet would never touch the ground.
Nobody in the south has the first clue who John even is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 12, 2013, 08:50:45 PM
Is John Lawnseed ?  :o :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 13, 2013, 09:18:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 11, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Not a mission.
i'd pay good money to see him tear lumps off the gimp kenny

He'd have to be elected to Dáil Éireann first
yeah because theres no way the gimp kenny would face him on the telly he wouldnt even face gerry never mind john. yep if john came on the scene fine gael would have the gimp back in the cupboard so fast his feet would never touch the ground.

It was Bertie who was living in the cupboard - you need to brush up on Irish politics.
oh sorry your right it was bertie in the cupboard. the gimp was under the stairs for two weeks before the last election just incase he ruined fine gaels chance even after fianna fail had put it on a plate for them. i think i get 26 county politics
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 14, 2013, 01:15:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 13, 2013, 09:18:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 12, 2013, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 12, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 11, 2013, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 11, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
john o dowd  :-* for leader asap
Not a mission.
i'd pay good money to see him tear lumps off the gimp kenny

He'd have to be elected to Dáil Éireann first
yeah because theres no way the gimp kenny would face him on the telly he wouldnt even face gerry never mind john. yep if john came on the scene fine gael would have the gimp back in the cupboard so fast his feet would never touch the ground.

It was Bertie who was living in the cupboard - you need to brush up on Irish politics.
oh sorry your right it was bertie in the cupboard. the gimp was under the stairs for two weeks before the last election just incase he ruined fine gaels chance even after fianna fail had put it on a plate for them. i think i get 26 county politics

Unlike 6 county politics, where you get into government by being a crowd of religious bigots who insight hate and keep those who do not conform to your agenda down or a crowd of lunatics blowing innocent people up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 21, 2013, 11:04:44 PM
john o dowd on talkback today... class pure class. charming, intelligent, witty, firm, with measured aggression, popular, visionary.

leader..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 21, 2013, 11:40:08 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 21, 2013, 11:04:44 PM
john o dowd on talkback today... class pure class. charming, intelligent, witty, firm, with measured aggression, popular, visionary.

leader..

"So What" 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on May 22, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 21, 2013, 11:04:44 PM
john o dowd on talkback today... class pure class. charming, intelligent, witty, firm, with measured aggression, popular, visionary.

leader..

A 'Republican' leader who is talking about educational matters in this land with a foreign government.

Yip yer right...... A true Sinn Fein leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dillinger on May 22, 2013, 12:02:37 AM
Would big John be the first modern day leader that was not a member of the IRA?

Assuming Gerry was  a member. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on May 22, 2013, 02:42:11 AM
Quote from: dillinger on May 22, 2013, 12:02:37 AM
Would big John be the first modern day leader that was not a member of the IRA?

Assuming Gerry was never a member as he says.

Assuming Gerry was never a member then obviously John O'Dowd wouldn't be the first modern day leader who wasn't a member of the IRA.

You just answered your own question.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 22, 2013, 10:02:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?

Don't think so but will find out for sure next June.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 22, 2013, 10:04:59 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 21, 2013, 11:04:44 PM
john o dowd on talkback today... class pure class. charming, intelligent, witty, firm, with measured aggression, popular, visionary.

leader..
Get a room.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 23, 2013, 04:19:29 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?

Are Gerry's teddies pushing their own policies?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on May 23, 2013, 05:16:01 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?

I wouldn't imagine so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on May 23, 2013, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: ranch on May 23, 2013, 05:16:01 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?

I wouldn't imagine so.

People here don't vote on "issues" so it won't make any odds
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 23, 2013, 06:31:02 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 23, 2013, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: ranch on May 23, 2013, 05:16:01 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?

I wouldn't imagine so.

People here don't vote on "issues" so it won't make any odds
Precisely. Green and Orange is really all that matters to the majority of the voting public.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 23, 2013, 08:49:42 PM
I see Marty/Peter are setting up an All Party Committee to "sort out" all the issues around flags and parades.
They're learning how to play this politics lark alright  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 23, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 23, 2013, 08:49:42 PM
I see Marty/Peter are setting up an All Party Committee to "sort out" all the issues around flags and parades.
They're learning how to play this politics lark alright  ;)

Yeah it's a long hard road to drag Peter into the real world but Marty is getting there slowly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on May 23, 2013, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?
Is the issue pushing you into bed (politically) with Ian Og?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 23, 2013, 11:26:48 PM
Bloody shinner opening his stupid trap endangering the Irish economy. f**k off you bollix.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 24, 2013, 12:40:15 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 23, 2013, 11:26:48 PM
Bloody shinner opening his stupid trap endangering the Irish economy. f**k off you bollix.
His ram pings are no more dangerous or useless than the (half)wit of inda or noonan!!

Ie No danger to the economy at all despite themselves!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 24, 2013, 09:26:45 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 23, 2013, 11:26:48 PM
Bloody shinner opening his stupid trap endangering the Irish economy. f**k off you bollix.

Typical Shinner looking for equality in the corrupt irish economy. Should know better!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Aristo 60 on May 24, 2013, 12:28:07 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22652433

Someone saw an opportunity they couldn't resist here..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on May 24, 2013, 12:44:57 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 23, 2013, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?
Is the issue pushing you into bed (politically) with Ian Og?

Not really!

With the opinion of SF on this in stark contrast of that of the Catholic Church I would imagne many SF voters will be a bit annoyed.

With this and their apparent lack of interest in the A5 project I will consider my vote in the future as I am sure many in this area will.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on May 24, 2013, 01:32:48 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2013, 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 24, 2013, 12:44:57 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 23, 2013, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?
Is the issue pushing you into bed (politically) with Ian Og?

Not really!

With the opinion of SF on this in stark contrast of that of the Catholic Church I would imagne many SF voters will be a bit annoyed.

With this and their apparent lack of interest in the A5 project I will consider my vote in the future as I am sure many in this area will.
Would the opinion of the Catholic Church not be in stark contrast to that of most Catholics in Ireland?

On a few matters yes but on this one I'm not so sure. Most of my family and friends would be opposed to Gay marriage. A lot may not admit to it but privately opposed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 24, 2013, 11:52:00 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on May 24, 2013, 12:28:07 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22652433

Someone saw an opportunity they couldn't resist here..
dirty bastards
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on May 25, 2013, 02:24:57 AM
I really don't think many people will decide their own personal opinion on gay marriage based upon what the Catholic Church say.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 24, 2013, 12:44:57 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 23, 2013, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 22, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
Are SF out of touch with many of their voters with their policy of agreeing with Gay marriage?
Is the issue pushing you into bed (politically) with Ian Og?

Not really!

With the opinion of SF on this in stark contrast of that of the Catholic Church I would imagne many SF voters will be a bit annoyed.

I can't understand why some of these Catholics would desert SF for support of gay marriage when they voted for them during the years of republican murder and violence. Are these people objecting because they're Catholic, or because they're maybe just a bit conservative, or even homophobic?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
...during the years of republican murder and violence...

Ah is that what it was? Here was me thinking it was a politically motivated conflict but apparently not. Apparently it was just "years of republican murder and violence".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 09:34:09 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 24, 2013, 12:44:57 PM
With this and their apparent lack of interest in the A5 project I will consider my vote in the future as I am sure many in this area will.

Lack of interest in the A5? A quick google of "Sinn Féin A5" should put your mind at ease on that one.

http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24278 (http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24278)
http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24019 (http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24019)
http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24202 (http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24202)
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=126986 (http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=126986)
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26454 (http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26454)
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26656 (http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26656)
http://www.strabaneweekly.co.uk/articles/news/33698/high-profile-meeting-to-discuss-delivery-of-the-a5/ (http://www.strabaneweekly.co.uk/articles/news/33698/high-profile-meeting-to-discuss-delivery-of-the-a5/)
http://www.tyronecon.co.uk/articles/news/33323/a5-scheme-faces-substantial-delay-admits-roads-minister/ (http://www.tyronecon.co.uk/articles/news/33323/a5-scheme-faces-substantial-delay-admits-roads-minister/)
Etc
Etc
Etc






Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 09:47:52 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 09:34:09 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 24, 2013, 12:44:57 PM
With this and their apparent lack of interest in the A5 project I will consider my vote in the future as I am sure many in this area will.

Lack of interest in the A5? A quick google of "Sinn Féin A5" should put your mind at ease on that one.

http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24278 (http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24278)
http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24019 (http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24019)
http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24202 (http://www.westtyronesinnfein.com/news/24202)
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=126986 (http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=126986)
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26454 (http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26454)
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26656 (http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26656)
http://www.strabaneweekly.co.uk/articles/news/33698/high-profile-meeting-to-discuss-delivery-of-the-a5/ (http://www.strabaneweekly.co.uk/articles/news/33698/high-profile-meeting-to-discuss-delivery-of-the-a5/)
http://www.tyronecon.co.uk/articles/news/33323/a5-scheme-faces-substantial-delay-admits-roads-minister/ (http://www.tyronecon.co.uk/articles/news/33323/a5-scheme-faces-substantial-delay-admits-roads-minister/)
Etc
Etc
Etc
Plenty of support since it was stopped but where was SF in the lead up to Danny Kennedy pulling the pin. Letting a Unionist pull the funding to use in unionist areas.

Easy to make noise now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 25, 2013, 09:59:36 AM
Your right EC Unique, a press release/statement here and there doesent amount to shit. I know a few fellas that were working on it and are now in Australia.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 11:06:36 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 25, 2013, 09:59:36 AM
Your right EC Unique, a press release/statement here and there doesent amount to shit. I know a few fellas that were working on it and are now in Australia.

Fells who would have been working with contractors which SF have been meeting with, alongside the chamber of commerce to advance the campaign. One of the many details you'd have discovered if you actually read some of the press releases, instead of slabbering shite as usual. Tell me this....who has done more work in this area than SF? As someone pointed out recently in the newspaper...at the same time the stoops were posing for a photo in Omagh last week, SF members were on foot around the town (plus other towns) collecting thousands of signatures for the "Action for A5" campaign's petition.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 11:37:38 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 09:47:52 AM
Plenty of support since it was stopped but where was SF in the lead up to Danny Kennedy pulling the pin. Letting a Unionist pull the funding to use in unionist areas.

Easy to make noise now.

Siiigghhh.....

http://strabanesf.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/strabane-sinn-fein-vice-chair-among.html (http://strabanesf.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/strabane-sinn-fein-vice-chair-among.html) (2012)
Strabane Sinn Féin Vice-Chair among high-profile delegation taking A5 funding lobby to Dublin

http://www.westtyronesf.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://www.westtyronesf.blogspot.co.uk/) (2007)
Doherty seeks clarification on A5 upgrade plans

http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/11/09/sinn-fein-letter-shows-extent-of-enda-kenny-u-turn-on-a5-project/ (http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/11/09/sinn-fein-letter-shows-extent-of-enda-kenny-u-turn-on-a5-project/) (2011)
Sinn Fein letter shows extent of Enda Kenny u-turn on A5 project

http://www.newryarmaghsf.com/news/15338 (http://www.newryarmaghsf.com/news/15338) (2009)
Murphy attends All-Ireland Council Meeting on Transport

http://www.irishbuildingmagazine.ie/2012/09/17/government-must-honour-the-agreement-and-reinstate-funding-for-the-a5/ (http://www.irishbuildingmagazine.ie/2012/09/17/government-must-honour-the-agreement-and-reinstate-funding-for-the-a5/) (2012)
Government must honour the agreement and reinstate funding for the A5

http://martinadonegal.wordpress.com/tag/sinn-fein/ (http://martinadonegal.wordpress.com/tag/sinn-fein/) (2011)
Sinn Féin calls on Labour and Fine Gael to urgently pledge their support to the A5 dual carriageway

http://www.irelandofequals.com/news/6245 (http://www.irelandofequals.com/news/6245) (2007)
"Recommended route" for A5 Dual Carriageway to be known by late 2008....

http://www.fermanaghsouthtyronesf.com/news/22798 (http://www.fermanaghsouthtyronesf.com/news/22798) (2012)
Government must honour the agreement and reinstate funding for the A5. The Good Friday Agreement Implementation Committee today heard from representatives of Monaghan, Derry, Donegal, Dungannon and Omagh and Strabane Councils regarding the funding for the A5 Motorway connecting Monaghan to Donegal.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17860 (http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17860) (2009)
Murphy announces award of contracts for the A5 Western Transport Corridor

http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/news/20904 (http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/news/20904) (2011)
McLaughlin calls for emergency meeting of key cross border group over A5 decision

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/council-set-to-debate-the-a5-road-motion-1-2811473 (http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/council-set-to-debate-the-a5-road-motion-1-2811473) (2011)
Council set to debate the A5 road motion -Local councillors will debate a motion later today calling on the Regional Development minister to press ahead with the planned construction of the A5 road project. - The motion has been tabled by Sinn Féin councillor Tony Hassan

http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/news/20014 (http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/news/20014) (2011)
No delay on A5 -Hassan

Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 25, 2013, 11:40:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
...during the years of republican murder and violence...

Ah is that what it was? Here was me thinking it was a politically motivated conflict but apparently not. Apparently it was just "years of republican murder and violence".
you just dont get the real gist of events or understanding from google Nally !!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 11:49:57 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 25, 2013, 11:40:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
...during the years of republican murder and violence...

Ah is that what it was? Here was me thinking it was a politically motivated conflict but apparently not. Apparently it was just "years of republican murder and violence".
you just dont get the real gist of events or understanding from google Nally !!

Learn something new every day!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 11:37:38 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 09:47:52 AM
Plenty of support since it was stopped but where was SF in the lead up to Danny Kennedy pulling the pin. Letting a Unionist pull the funding to use in unionist areas.

Easy to make noise now.

Siiigghhh.....

http://strabanesf.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/strabane-sinn-fein-vice-chair-among.html (http://strabanesf.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/strabane-sinn-fein-vice-chair-among.html) (2012)
Strabane Sinn Féin Vice-Chair among high-profile delegation taking A5 funding lobby to Dublin

http://www.westtyronesf.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://www.westtyronesf.blogspot.co.uk/) (2007)
Doherty seeks clarification on A5 upgrade plans

http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/11/09/sinn-fein-letter-shows-extent-of-enda-kenny-u-turn-on-a5-project/ (http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/11/09/sinn-fein-letter-shows-extent-of-enda-kenny-u-turn-on-a5-project/) (2011)
Sinn Fein letter shows extent of Enda Kenny u-turn on A5 project

http://www.newryarmaghsf.com/news/15338 (http://www.newryarmaghsf.com/news/15338) (2009)
Murphy attends All-Ireland Council Meeting on Transport

http://www.irishbuildingmagazine.ie/2012/09/17/government-must-honour-the-agreement-and-reinstate-funding-for-the-a5/ (http://www.irishbuildingmagazine.ie/2012/09/17/government-must-honour-the-agreement-and-reinstate-funding-for-the-a5/) (2012)
Government must honour the agreement and reinstate funding for the A5

http://martinadonegal.wordpress.com/tag/sinn-fein/ (http://martinadonegal.wordpress.com/tag/sinn-fein/) (2011)
Sinn Féin calls on Labour and Fine Gael to urgently pledge their support to the A5 dual carriageway

http://www.irelandofequals.com/news/6245 (http://www.irelandofequals.com/news/6245) (2007)
"Recommended route" for A5 Dual Carriageway to be known by late 2008....

http://www.fermanaghsouthtyronesf.com/news/22798 (http://www.fermanaghsouthtyronesf.com/news/22798) (2012)
Government must honour the agreement and reinstate funding for the A5. The Good Friday Agreement Implementation Committee today heard from representatives of Monaghan, Derry, Donegal, Dungannon and Omagh and Strabane Councils regarding the funding for the A5 Motorway connecting Monaghan to Donegal.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17860 (http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17860) (2009)
Murphy announces award of contracts for the A5 Western Transport Corridor

http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/news/20904 (http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/news/20904) (2011)
McLaughlin calls for emergency meeting of key cross border group over A5 decision

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/council-set-to-debate-the-a5-road-motion-1-2811473 (http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/council-set-to-debate-the-a5-road-motion-1-2811473) (2011)
Council set to debate the A5 road motion -Local councillors will debate a motion later today calling on the Regional Development minister to press ahead with the planned construction of the A5 road project. - The motion has been tabled by Sinn Féin councillor Tony Hassan

http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/news/20014 (http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/news/20014) (2011)
No delay on A5 -Hassan

Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc

You can sigh all you like Nally but all the links are hot air bullsh1t. The reality is that this road was going ahead until the unionists decided otherwise and came into a nationalist area and put a stop to it. That is an epic fail by nationalist politicians no matter what you try to say. People around here are really pissed off about it.

Michelle Gildernew won the last election by 4 odd votes as far as I remember. I garantee you if that was run today she would not win as a lot of voters feel let down and simply would not vote.

I have voted SF ever since I had a vote. My parents voted otherwise but I convinced them to vote for Michelle in the last election for obvious reasons. I would not be pushing them that way again.

Your condescending sighing is not helping your party in any way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 25, 2013, 12:30:23 PM
They used to say there are no motorways west of the Bann, and the this is as true now as in the 1960s.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 25, 2013, 12:39:38 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 12:00:23 PM
You can sigh all you like Nally but all the links are hot air bullsh1t. The reality is that this road was going ahead until the unionists decided otherwise and came into a nationalist area and put a stop to it. That is an epic fail by nationalist politicians no matter what you try to say. People around here are really pissed off about it.

Same with the Narrow Water bridge project, Sammy Wilson doesn't want it, so it won't happen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 12:44:17 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 12:00:23 PM
You can sigh all you like Nally but all the links are hot air bullsh1t. The reality is that this road was going ahead until the unionists decided otherwise and came into a nationalist area and put a stop to it.
If it was "going ahead anyway" then what exactly was your point with your last post:
Quote from: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 09:47:52 AM
.... where was SF in the lead up to Danny Kennedy pulling the pin.
Easy to make noise now.
No point claiming that SF were silent on the A5 in the early days, then when provided with ample evidence otherwise, saying that it doesn't matter if they campaigned at all back then ffs.



Quote from: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 12:00:23 PM
...until the unionists decided otherwise and came into a nationalist area and put a stop to it.
It was a judge who put a stop to it. All Danny Kennedy could do was decide if he wanted to appeal the judge's decision.

Quote from: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 12:00:23 PM
People around here are really pissed off about it.
I live around here too! I know how people feel about it, and yet you're the first one I've heard claiming that SF have been silent on the A5, when they are by a long way the most active party on it. What party has done more?

Quote from: EC Unique on May 25, 2013, 12:00:23 PM
Your condescending sighing is not helping your party in any way.
My party? I'm not a member of any party. All sighs are my own and in no way representative of any political party or grouping!



And finally, from just over a week ago...
Sinn Féin MP for West Tyrone, Pat Doherty, has welcomed the confirmation the A5 road project remains an Executive priority.

Speaking following a meeting which was organised and chaired by Pat Doherty MP in order to receive an update from the offices of OFMdFM on the future of the A5 Mr Doherty said:
"The meeting was organised in order to receive an update on the future of the A5 Road Project from OFMdFM.
"There has been much speculation following the delay of the project however those in attendance, including parties from across Ireland were heartened to hear that the project was still an Executive priority and that the Dublin government also remained in support of it going ahead.
"The deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness stated that while there could be a year to 18 months delay, once it has been given the go ahead following the resolution of any outstanding issues, that the road would receive immediate funding to push forward with what is essentially a project of huge economic significance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 06:32:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
...during the years of republican murder and violence...

Ah is that what it was? Here was me thinking it was a politically motivated conflict but apparently not. Apparently it was just "years of republican murder and violence".
Did republicans not murder anyone? Gerry Adams called it murder on RTÉ a few weeks ago. Was there no republican violence? Did I make any comment on the motivation for it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 28, 2013, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 06:32:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
...during the years of republican murder and violence...

Ah is that what it was? Here was me thinking it was a politically motivated conflict but apparently not. Apparently it was just "years of republican murder and violence".
Did republicans not murder anyone? Gerry Adams called it murder on RTÉ a few weeks ago. Was there no republican violence? Did I make any comment on the motivation for it?

Gerry Adams can call it whatever he wants, he doesn't speak for me. Most right thinking people wouldn't just term the past few decades as "the years of republican murder and violence".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 28, 2013, 03:34:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 28, 2013, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 06:32:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
...during the years of republican murder and violence...

Ah is that what it was? Here was me thinking it was a politically motivated conflict but apparently not. Apparently it was just "years of republican murder and violence".
Did republicans not murder anyone? Gerry Adams called it murder on RTÉ a few weeks ago. Was there no republican violence? Did I make any comment on the motivation for it?

Gerry Adams can call it whatever he wants, he doesn't speak for me. Most right thinking people wouldn't just term the past few decades as "the years of republican murder and violence".
No but they sure made a hell of a contribution to it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 28, 2013, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 28, 2013, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 06:32:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
...during the years of republican murder and violence...

Ah is that what it was? Here was me thinking it was a politically motivated conflict but apparently not. Apparently it was just "years of republican murder and violence".
Did republicans not murder anyone? Gerry Adams called it murder on RTÉ a few weeks ago. Was there no republican violence? Did I make any comment on the motivation for it?

Gerry Adams can call it whatever he wants, he doesn't speak for me. Most right thinking people wouldn't just term the past few decades as "the years of republican murder and violence".
How do you define 'right thinking'?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 28, 2013, 11:24:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 28, 2013, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 28, 2013, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 06:32:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
...during the years of republican murder and violence...

Ah is that what it was? Here was me thinking it was a politically motivated conflict but apparently not. Apparently it was just "years of republican murder and violence".
Did republicans not murder anyone? Gerry Adams called it murder on RTÉ a few weeks ago. Was there no republican violence? Did I make any comment on the motivation for it?

Gerry Adams can call it whatever he wants, he doesn't speak for me. Most right thinking people wouldn't just term the past few decades as "the years of republican murder and violence".
How do you define 'right thinking'?
I've no interest in defining it. It's clear to me though that no right thinking person could simply term the past few decades as "the years of republican murder and violence".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 29, 2013, 06:57:51 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 28, 2013, 11:24:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 28, 2013, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 28, 2013, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 06:32:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2013, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
...during the years of republican murder and violence...

Ah is that what it was? Here was me thinking it was a politically motivated conflict but apparently not. Apparently it was just "years of republican murder and violence".
Did republicans not murder anyone? Gerry Adams called it murder on RTÉ a few weeks ago. Was there no republican violence? Did I make any comment on the motivation for it?

Gerry Adams can call it whatever he wants, he doesn't speak for me. Most right thinking people wouldn't just term the past few decades as "the years of republican murder and violence".
How do you define 'right thinking'?
I've no interest in defining it. It's clear to me though that no right thinking person could simply term the past few decades as "the years of republican murder and violence".
Well if it's clear to you it must be so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on June 07, 2013, 01:45:27 PM
SF are back with the Chief Constable in tow -

PSNI Chief Constable Matt Baggott attends first Sinn Féin event Chief Constable Matt Baggott is attending the Sinn Fein-organised conference in Belfast Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Nesbitt pulls out of SF conference
Baggott in SF conference pledge

Northern Ireland's police chief has said that there needs to be a dialogue about what policing does.

Chief Constable Matt Baggott was addressing delegates to a conference called Belfast: A City of Equals in an Island of Equals.

He said the PSNI was increasingly being dragged into toxic areas such as parades and the past.

Mr Baggott and other PSNI officers were attending a Sinn Féin-organised event for the first time.

Sinn Féin's Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness were heckled by up to 20 loyalists as they arrived at the conference at Belfast's Europa Hotel.

After that, the PSNI delegation entered the hotel through a side door.
In 2011, said Mr Baggot said he would accept an invitation to address Sinn Féin's ard fheis (annual party conference) at some point in the future.

The Ulster Unionist party leader Mike Nesbitt had agreed to give a "keynote address" to the City of Equals conference, but pulled out of the event because of remarks made by Sinn Féin's John O'Dowd.

Mr O'Dowd sparked controversy in a BBC TV debate last month, when he dismissed concerns from the UUP, SDLP and Alliance that they had been kept in the dark about proposals for tackling sectarianism and division by replying: "So what?"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on June 07, 2013, 02:07:54 PM
I doubt if many will loose sleep over Nesbitts absence. The UU are of a similar importance to NI politics as the SDLP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 07, 2013, 03:07:40 PM
Very thin skin for a politician. ::)
The Unionist vision of a "shared " future -
1- heckle/abuse Nationalists
2- don't take part in any public events if Sinn Féin are there

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Sure only a couple of weeks ago they joined forces with the SDLP and approved the use of unmanned Drones for the British Govt to spy on Irish citizens.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Sure only a couple of weeks ago they joined forces with the SDLP and approved the use of unmanned Drones for the British Govt to spy on Irish citizens.

Who did ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Sure only a couple of weeks ago they joined forces with the SDLP and approved the use of unmanned Drones for the British Govt to spy on Irish citizens.

Who did ?

SF did. Does it surprise you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Sure only a couple of weeks ago they joined forces with the SDLP and approved the use of unmanned Drones for the British Govt to spy on Irish citizens.

Who did ?

SF did. Does it surprise you?

Didn't know that. Nothing would surprise me about the politicians here. Why has this not received any media coverage ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on June 07, 2013, 04:40:58 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Sure only a couple of weeks ago they joined forces with the SDLP and approved the use of unmanned Drones for the British Govt to spy on Irish citizens.

Who did ?

SF did. Does it surprise you?

Didn't know that. Nothing would surprise me about the politicians here. Why has this not received any media coverage ?


Ssssssshhhh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on June 07, 2013, 05:29:53 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Sure only a couple of weeks ago they joined forces with the SDLP and approved the use of unmanned Drones for the British Govt to spy on Irish citizens.

Who did ?

SF did. Does it surprise you?

When and where?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 07, 2013, 05:55:10 PM
Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2013, 05:29:53 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Sure only a couple of weeks ago they joined forces with the SDLP and approved the use of unmanned Drones for the British Govt to spy on Irish citizens.

Who did ?

SF did. Does it surprise you?

When and where?
I assume he's referring to the purchase and use of drones, approved by the Policing Board (on which SF sit) in April. They will be used by the PSNI (not the British Government) - I don't see how it's any different to any other means of police surveillance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 07, 2013, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2013, 03:07:40 PM
Very thin skin for a politician. ::)
The Unionist vision of a "shared " future -
1- heckle/abuse Nationalists
2- don't take part in any public events if Sinn Féin are there
Well in this case it was a SF event, so maybe he thought that if John O'Dowd can't be bothered, why should he support a SF event?
I don't have any time for him myself, but your statement is a bit too 'broad brush'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 07, 2013, 06:07:30 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on June 07, 2013, 02:07:54 PM
I doubt if many will loose sleep over Nesbitts absence. The UU are of a similar importance to NI politics as the SDLP.
He must have been considered important enough for SF to invite him to speak in the first place, surely?

Not much point in having outreach conferences if you're only reaching out to those who share the same position.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 07, 2013, 06:34:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2013, 06:07:30 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on June 07, 2013, 02:07:54 PM
I doubt if many will loose sleep over Nesbitts absence. The UU are of a similar importance to NI politics as the SDLP.
He must have been considered important enough for SF to invite him to speak in the first place, surely?

Not much point in having outreach conferences if you're only reaching out to those who share the same position.
Fella outside the Europa with an "Equality for Loyalist" placard  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on June 07, 2013, 07:52:01 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 07, 2013, 06:34:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2013, 06:07:30 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on June 07, 2013, 02:07:54 PM
I doubt if many will loose sleep over Nesbitts absence. The UU are of a similar importance to NI politics as the SDLP.
He must have been considered important enough for SF to invite him to speak in the first place, surely?

Not much point in having outreach conferences if you're only reaching out to those who share the same position.
Fella outside the Europa with an "Equality for Loyalist" placard  ::)

Cool! Let us all march up and down the street, outside his home, wearing top hats playing Uileann Pipes loudly. Preferably thousands of us frowning really really hard at him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 10:49:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2013, 05:55:10 PM
Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2013, 05:29:53 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Sure only a couple of weeks ago they joined forces with the SDLP and approved the use of unmanned Drones for the British Govt to spy on Irish citizens.

Who did ?

SF did. Does it surprise you?

When and where?
I assume he's referring to the purchase and use of drones, approved by the Policing Board (on which SF sit) in April. They will be used by the PSNI (not the British Government) - I don't see how it's any different to any other means of police surveillance.

Well, once you have the Drones, then you open the doors to this:

http://tyronetribulations.com/2013/06/07/brocagh-man-bought-helicopter-to-stare-at-women-court-told/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on June 10, 2013, 12:05:30 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 10:49:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2013, 05:55:10 PM
Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2013, 05:29:53 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 07, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 07, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Sure only a couple of weeks ago they joined forces with the SDLP and approved the use of unmanned Drones for the British Govt to spy on Irish citizens.

Who did ?

SF did. Does it surprise you?

When and where?
I assume he's referring to the purchase and use of drones, approved by the Policing Board (on which SF sit) in April. They will be used by the PSNI (not the British Government) - I don't see how it's any different to any other means of police surveillance.

Well, once you have the Drones, then you open the doors to this:

http://tyronetribulations.com/2013/06/07/brocagh-man-bought-helicopter-to-stare-at-women-court-told/
i see dominoes pizza using drones now to deliver your margarita.. handy

what would happen if a drone was 'accidently' shot down.. could you say you thought you were under attack.. self defence? ufo? etc.. what happens if its over your property is it not in your airspace? could you claim salvage? does it breach your right to privacy? i've a class crossbow.. home made from a leaf spring like the one the romans had in the opening of gladiator it can fire a length (75cm) of 14mm re-bar about 750mts or put it through a cavity wall  8) wouldnt mind trying it out on a drone.. haven't used it in a while very busy with work these days
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on June 10, 2013, 12:49:31 PM
There is something beyond sick and twisted when a Drone Operator receives a certificate detailing how many people they have killed in far away lands. One such operator got a certificate for 1,626 confirmed kills !!!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/collateral-damage-drone-operators-risk-ptsd/4998#more-4998
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on June 11, 2013, 07:08:58 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on June 10, 2013, 12:49:31 PM
There is something beyond sick and twisted when a Drone Operator receives a certificate detailing how many people they have killed in far away lands. One such operator got a certificate for 1,626 confirmed kills !!!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/collateral-damage-drone-operators-risk-ptsd/4998#more-4998

9 to 1 thats the nato acceptable rate of kills locals v soldiers. so roughly.. for every plastic bag that arrives in wotton basset 9 arab natives women, kids etc have been killed.  add this to american bags, french, italian and on and on and thats what the stoops see on tour. then say nothing about it when they get home!!!!???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on June 11, 2013, 08:08:12 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 18, 2010, 09:38:10 PM
A lot of you boys are in the North and may not be fully aware of what is happening SF in the south. The honeymoon is over, people want some ideas from SF and are tired of constant blathering about the peace process. Adams has become a liability as he is completely out of touch with what  is going on in the South. O Caolain should have been let me SF's main spokesman for the last general election but instead we got Gerry Adams getting obliterated on national tv debates. SF should be making hay in these times as a left wing party but are not positioned to do so and I fear for them in the south big time.

Would love the shinners to expand their policies on tax , health, social welfare etc in both jurisdictions because they have so many capable people hamstrung by the bland party first approach .
I don't believe all shinners want to destroy the grammar schools on ni
The troika in the south need challenged and with the calibre of the middle ranking shinners they can at least articulate arguments which would resonate with a lot of educated voters
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on June 12, 2013, 11:08:44 PM
Quote from: naka on June 11, 2013, 08:08:12 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 18, 2010, 09:38:10 PM
A lot of you boys are in the North and may not be fully aware of what is happening SF in the south. The honeymoon is over, people want some ideas from SF and are tired of constant blathering about the peace process. Adams has become a liability as he is completely out of touch with what  is going on in the South. O Caolain should have been let me SF's main spokesman for the last general election but instead we got Gerry Adams getting obliterated on national tv debates. SF should be making hay in these times as a left wing party but are not positioned to do so and I fear for them in the south big time.

Would love the shinners to expand their policies on tax , health, social welfare etc in both jurisdictions because they have so many capable people hamstrung by the bland party first approach .
I don't believe all shinners want to destroy the grammar schools on ni
The troika in the south need challenged and with the calibre of the middle ranking shinners they can at least articulate arguments which would resonate with a lot of educated voters
naka you have quite a bit going on there in that post.. i agree the approach is bland.. grammar schools?? sinn fein are not anti grammar school.. the troika?? firstly sinn fein are not in government at a level where the party can challange the troika, secondly sinn fein have published their alternative budget and have tried to change the governments policy for some time both in this dail and the last but they wont listen thats what happens when you have nearly a hundred years of the same party in power 'fianna gael'

ive been saying for some time that the adams era has run its course hes just not suited to this role at this time. gerry is caring and thoughtful but sinn fein will not be in power in the south with gerry leading.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on June 20, 2013, 01:03:53 PM
Sinn Fein are running a Summer Conference in Cork with a very impressive line up

Eamon Dunphy - Journalist & Broadcaster
Pearse Doherty - SF TD
Joanne O'Riordan - She is the wee girl with no limbs from Cork who was on the late late a few times.  She is absolutely brilliant.
Sean Og O'Hailpin - Legend
Mary Lou McDonald - SF TD
Basil McCrea - Leader of Ireland's newest party NI21
Roy Greenslade - Guardian Journalist
Alison O'Connor - Irish Independent Journalist ( Don't know her, but as she is from the Indo, she is obviously the official opposition)
Plenty of others as well.

Looks quite interesting. 
Northmen, Southmen, comrades all, Dublin, Belfast, Cork & Donegal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on June 20, 2013, 02:45:32 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on June 20, 2013, 01:03:53 PM
Sinn Fein are running a Summer Conference in Cork with a very impressive line up

Eamon Dunphy - Journalist & Broadcaster
Pearse Doherty - SF TD
Joanne O'Riordan - She is the wee girl with no limbs from Cork who was on the late late a few times.  She is absolutely brilliant.
Sean Og O'Hailpin - Legend
Mary Lou McDonald - SF TD
Basil McCrea - Leader of Ireland's newest party NI21
Roy Greenslade - Guardian Journalist
Alison O'Connor - Irish Independent Journalist ( Don't know her, but as she is from the Indo, she is obviously the official opposition)
Plenty of others as well.

Looks quite interesting. 
Northmen, Southmen, comrades all, Dublin, Belfast, Cork & Donegal.

Impressive  ::)  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on June 20, 2013, 03:08:12 PM
Well, you can say what you like about Mary Lou, but I think that most people are interested in Dunphy's views on things.  If not, then why is he still a major broadcasting figure after all these years?  He certainly won't be going as a Shinner stooge.

Why who would you like to see there? 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on June 20, 2013, 08:27:18 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on June 20, 2013, 03:08:12 PM
Well, you can say what you like about Mary Lou, but I think that most people are interested in Dunphy's views on things.  If not, then why is he still a major broadcasting figure after all these years?  He certainly won't be going as a Shinner stooge.

Why who would you like to see there?

To be fair Dunphy is well read and articulate when he wants to be. He is fond of limelight and controversy but is not without his uses. Oh and he used to work for the Sindo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on June 21, 2013, 12:30:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 20, 2013, 08:27:18 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on June 20, 2013, 03:08:12 PM
Well, you can say what you like about Mary Lou, but I think that most people are interested in Dunphy's views on things.  If not, then why is he still a major broadcasting figure after all these years?  He certainly won't be going as a Shinner stooge.

Why who would you like to see there?

To be fair Dunphy is well read and articulate when he wants to be. He is fond of limelight and controversy but is not without his uses. Oh and he used to work for the Sindo.

A poor man's Joe Brolly
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on June 24, 2013, 09:13:46 PM
So DUP and Sinn Fein attempting a power grab on the DOE with an amendment to transfer planning powers in the Enterprise Zones to OFMDFM, DUP property developing mates must love this. An issue that will affect loads of people here but all people seem interested in is the latest marching sham fight between SF and DUP

SF playing nice as usual, I suppose it will be the turn of the DUP to roll over next for something SF want.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on June 24, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 24, 2013, 09:13:46 PM
So DUP and Sinn Fein attempting a power grab on the DOE with an amendment to transfer planning powers in the Enterprise Zones to OFMDFM, DUP property developing mates must love this. An issue that will affect loads of people here but all people seem interested in is the latest marching sham fight between SF and DUP

SF playing nice as usual, I suppose it will be the turn of the DUP to roll over next for something SF want.

Would this not be a good thing? Create much needed jobs in construction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 24, 2013, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on June 24, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 24, 2013, 09:13:46 PM
So DUP and Sinn Fein attempting a power grab on the DOE with an amendment to transfer planning powers in the Enterprise Zones to OFMDFM, DUP property developing mates must love this. An issue that will affect loads of people here but all people seem interested in is the latest marching sham fight between SF and DUP

SF playing nice as usual, I suppose it will be the turn of the DUP to roll over next for something SF want.

Would this not be a good thing? Create much needed jobs in construction.
Why does OFMDFM need to have the power? Why not DOE, where planning normally sits?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on June 24, 2013, 10:14:56 PM
Don't know much about I would assume they want the power to fast track developments were are central to these "Enterprise Zones ". Waiting years for planning decisions probably isn't best for stimulating economic activity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kid Twist on June 24, 2013, 11:50:54 PM
Thatcher had enterprise zones in the 80s and Major had them in the 90s-mainly across the water but some in the north also. Free market favourite, won't create meaningful long term jobs but leave legacy of poorly built and planned business parks in the oddest of places. Sinn Fein have sank to a new low.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on June 25, 2013, 12:21:35 AM
Quote from: Kid Twist on June 24, 2013, 11:50:54 PM
Thatcher had enterprise zones in the 80s and Major had them in the 90s-mainly across the water but some in the north also. Free market favourite, won't create meaningful long term jobs but leave legacy of poorly built and planned business parks in the oddest of places. Sinn Fein have sank to a new low.

Is there a grant for that ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on June 25, 2013, 01:36:34 AM
Quote from: Kid Twist on June 24, 2013, 11:50:54 PM
Thatcher had enterprise zones in the 80s and Major had them in the 90s-mainly across the water but some in the north also. Free market favourite, won't create meaningful long term jobs but leave legacy of poorly built and planned business parks in the oddest of places. Sinn Fein have sank to a new low.

How else do you attract investment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 25, 2013, 07:49:31 AM
Quote from: Ulick on June 24, 2013, 10:14:56 PM
Don't know much about I would assume they want the power to fast track developments were are central to these "Enterprise Zones ". Waiting years for planning decisions probably isn't best for stimulating economic activity.
Surely you just implement a fast track process through the DoE rather than grab the reins yourself? Peter has a history of shady property deals which is why people are rightly concerned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on June 25, 2013, 08:03:27 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 25, 2013, 07:49:31 AM
Quote from: Ulick on June 24, 2013, 10:14:56 PM
Don't know much about I would assume they want the power to fast track developments were are central to these "Enterprise Zones ". Waiting years for planning decisions probably isn't best for stimulating economic activity.
Surely you just implement a fast track process through the DoE rather than grab the reins yourself? Peter has a history of shady property deals which is why people are rightly concerned.

Dunno. I've managing a project at the minute for a firm with pretty rigorous but cumbersome quality control processes. As part of the project initiation I successfully argued to have the project exempted from normal proceedures because we know there are a number of big British and an Irish firm working on similar stuff. Being able to skip the existing management tiers and have my project decisions directly backed by the firms directors will not only speed up my project timelines but give me an advantage over the other firms. Is this not what is also happening with these economic zones and what people were crying out for after the John Lewis debacle?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 25, 2013, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Ulick on June 25, 2013, 08:03:27 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 25, 2013, 07:49:31 AM
Quote from: Ulick on June 24, 2013, 10:14:56 PM
Don't know much about I would assume they want the power to fast track developments were are central to these "Enterprise Zones ". Waiting years for planning decisions probably isn't best for stimulating economic activity.
Surely you just implement a fast track process through the DoE rather than grab the reins yourself? Peter has a history of shady property deals which is why people are rightly concerned.

Dunno. I've managing a project at the minute for a firm with pretty rigorous but cumbersome quality control processes. As part of the project initiation I successfully argued to have the project exempted from normal proceedures because we know there are a number of big British and an Irish firm working on similar stuff. Being able to skip the existing management tiers and have my project decisions directly backed by the firms directors will not only speed up my project timelines but give me an advantage over the other firms. Is this not what is also happening with these economic zones and what people were crying out for after the John Lewis debacle?
There is no doubt Atwood is a balloon and there should be a less circuitous route for projects with a significant economic impact. The fact that Robbo has form might mean he keeps his nose especially clean. We'll see.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 09:08:13 AM
The issue here is that development will take place at the behest of developers and sod the environmental damage. Attwood's hands aren't clean here either, just look at the new golf resort at the north coast. In addition our countryside is beginning to look like Donegal in the '80's with to many single dwellings often two storey mansions. We need to make sure that we develop brown field sites and our inner cities rather than acceding to the developers preferred green field option...cheaper to build...more developers profit. Sad to see the shinners behaving like FF did in the ROI.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on June 25, 2013, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 09:08:13 AM
The issue here is that development will take place at the behest of developers and sod the environmental damage. Attwood's hands aren't clean here either, just look at the new golf resort at the north coast. In addition our countryside is beginning to look like Donegal in the '80's with to many single dwellings often two storey mansions. We need to make sure that we develop brown field sites and our inner cities rather than acceding to the developers preferred green field option...cheaper to build...more developers profit. Sad to see the shinners behaving like FF did in the ROI.

We will have to rename Down royal before they will open a tent there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 09:13:46 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on June 25, 2013, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 09:08:13 AM
The issue here is that development will take place at the behest of developers and sod the environmental damage. Attwood's hands aren't clean here either, just look at the new golf resort at the north coast. In addition our countryside is beginning to look like Donegal in the '80's with to many single dwellings often two storey mansions. We need to make sure that we develop brown field sites and our inner cities rather than acceding to the developers preferred green field option...cheaper to build...more developers profit. Sad to see the shinners behaving like FF did in the ROI.

We will have to rename Down royal before they will open a tent there.
I don't think so sure Marty and Liz are best buds now. They are even friends on FB I hear.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 24, 2013, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on June 24, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 24, 2013, 09:13:46 PM
So DUP and Sinn Fein attempting a power grab on the DOE with an amendment to transfer planning powers in the Enterprise Zones to OFMDFM, DUP property developing mates must love this. An issue that will affect loads of people here but all people seem interested in is the latest marching sham fight between SF and DUP

SF playing nice as usual, I suppose it will be the turn of the DUP to roll over next for something SF want.

Would this not be a good thing? Create much needed jobs in construction.
Why does OFMDFM need to have the power? Why not DOE, where planning normally sits?
"Why does OFMDFM need to have the power"?

I should have thought it obvious: It's so Peter and Marty can shovel an even bigger share of Government money the way of their pals to develop projects - needed or not - in the areas where they (DUP/SF Axis) want to boost their own support.

That way, Peter can get his cut easier and quicker, and Marty can claim to be making the 6 ever more like the 26, one dodgy deal at a time... ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on June 25, 2013, 06:42:42 PM
Jackie McDonald and Spike Murray will probably be project managing the Enterprise zones.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 25, 2013, 07:25:44 PM
Quote from: Ulick on June 25, 2013, 08:03:27 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 25, 2013, 07:49:31 AM
Quote from: Ulick on June 24, 2013, 10:14:56 PM
Don't know much about I would assume they want the power to fast track developments were are central to these "Enterprise Zones ". Waiting years for planning decisions probably isn't best for stimulating economic activity.
Surely you just implement a fast track process through the DoE rather than grab the reins yourself? Peter has a history of shady property deals which is why people are rightly concerned.

Dunno. I've managing a project at the minute for a firm with pretty rigorous but cumbersome quality control processes. As part of the project initiation I successfully argued to have the project exempted from normal proceedures because we know there are a number of big British and an Irish firm working on similar stuff. Being able to skip the existing management tiers and have my project decisions directly backed by the firms directors will not only speed up my project timelines but give me an advantage over the other firms. Is this not what is also happening with these economic zones and what people were crying out for after the John Lewis debacle?
That analogy misses the issue - the 'power grab'. All this is doing is replacing one 'director' (DOE) with another 'director' (OFMDFM). In itself, it's not making the process any less cumbersome. The question remains (although others have answered), why move the power from the Environment Minister to the First Minister/deputy First Minister?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 25, 2013, 07:28:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 24, 2013, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on June 24, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 24, 2013, 09:13:46 PM
So DUP and Sinn Fein attempting a power grab on the DOE with an amendment to transfer planning powers in the Enterprise Zones to OFMDFM, DUP property developing mates must love this. An issue that will affect loads of people here but all people seem interested in is the latest marching sham fight between SF and DUP

SF playing nice as usual, I suppose it will be the turn of the DUP to roll over next for something SF want.

Would this not be a good thing? Create much needed jobs in construction.
Why does OFMDFM need to have the power? Why not DOE, where planning normally sits?
"Why does OFMDFM need to have the power"?

I should have thought it obvious: It's so Peter and Marty can shovel an even bigger share of Government money the way of their pals to develop projects - needed or not - in the areas where they (DUP/SF Axis) want to boost their own support.

That way, Peter can get his cut easier and quicker, and Marty can claim to be making the 6 ever more like the 26, one dodgy deal at a time... ::)
I assume you realised my question was largely rhetorical?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 07:38:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 25, 2013, 07:28:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 24, 2013, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on June 24, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 24, 2013, 09:13:46 PM
So DUP and Sinn Fein attempting a power grab on the DOE with an amendment to transfer planning powers in the Enterprise Zones to OFMDFM, DUP property developing mates must love this. An issue that will affect loads of people here but all people seem interested in is the latest marching sham fight between SF and DUP

SF playing nice as usual, I suppose it will be the turn of the DUP to roll over next for something SF want.

Would this not be a good thing? Create much needed jobs in construction.
Why does OFMDFM need to have the power? Why not DOE, where planning normally sits?
"Why does OFMDFM need to have the power"?

I should have thought it obvious: It's so Peter and Marty can shovel an even bigger share of Government money the way of their pals to develop projects - needed or not - in the areas where they (DUP/SF Axis) want to boost their own support.

That way, Peter can get his cut easier and quicker, and Marty can claim to be making the 6 ever more like the 26, one dodgy deal at a time... ::)
I assume you realised my question was largely rhetorical?
And I assume you realise my "answer" was largely for the benefit of others, especially those who may not appreciate the way things are done in NI.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 25, 2013, 07:40:07 PM
The DUP and Sinn Fein's MLAs last night joined forces to back changes which would see new planning powers given to Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness' department.

The amendments to the Planning Bill – which would allow the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) to designate any area of Northern Ireland as an area where they would oversee relaxed planning regulations – were tabled at short notice on Thursday evening and debated yesterday.

Today another DUP-Sinn Fein amendment, which would restrict the circumstances in which planning decisions could be legally challenged, will be debated before the final chance to change the bill passes next Tuesday.

Prior to the late-night vote, Environment Minister Alex Attwood said it was "the most one-sided debate" about a law in the Assembly which he could ever remember with "relentlessly one-way traffic" and little response from the big parties, particularly from Sinn Fein's near-empty benches.
The SDLP minister read to MLAs legal advice which he said showed the proposed 'power grab' was illegal.

The haste with which the proposal materialised meant that many Sinn Fein and DUP MLAs appeared ropey on the detail of their own plan, but it passed by 60 votes to 32.

Mr Attwood praised the DUP's Simon Hamilton for "putting his head above the parapet" but the UUP's Tom Elliott said that the amendment's other proposer, Sinn Fein's Cathal Boylan, had seemed "unenthusiastic...he didn't even seem to be fully across this amendment".

After SDLP MLA Patsy McGlone said that it was a "fundamentally anti-democratic and anti-citizen" move, Sinn Fein MLA Phil Flanagan said: "It's hard to disagree with Patsy." Mr Flanagan complained that he had only two pages of information on which to make a decision about the merits of the plan but insisted that it would not lead to fracking in Fermanagh. He admitted that it could have been handled "a bit better".

At another point, DUP MLA Jim Wells – himself a qualified planner – said that he was not certain about aspects of the amendment.

DUP colleague Simon Hamilton defended the proposal and said it would benefit areas chosen for the relaxed planning rules. He added: "The reasons that OFMDFM would take a role in this is because of the cross-cutting nature of economically significant planning applications for our number one priority, which, I hope we all agree, is growing, rebalancing and rebuilding our economy."

Basil McCrea said it would "at a single stroke do away with the Department of the Environment", something the DUP's Lord Morrow said was wrong.

The SDLP's Dolores Kelly claimed it was "yet another power-grab by Peter and Martin" to enact a "developers' charter".

At one point, Speaker Willie Hay stopped Green Party leader Steven Agnew from referring to the DUP as the "Developers' Union Party". Mr Agnew said there was "already suspicion of corruption in the Planning Service" and said that as parties do not have to reveal their donors, developers could be funding parties who decide lucrative planning applications.

He said it would allow for "complete deregulation of planning at the whim of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister where they so decide". Amid a barrage of opposition to the proposal, TUV leader Jim Allister said that the Environment Minister had been "ambushed by an eight-page amendment" a few working hours before it came to the Assembly". He said that it was "the most audacious power-grab that this house has seen for some time...such a power grab that it would do any totalitarian regime proud".

And, rounding on his former party, Mr Allister said: "The developer donors to the DUP will be delighted and some are rubbing their hands with glee thinking that investments are going to make a good return."

Alliance's Anna Lo claimed the amendments were "cooked up by Sinn Fein and the DUP working closely together behind closed doors".

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/ofmdfm-s-planning-power-grab-approved-1-5219241



Is that anyone's idea of good government? For anyone in the south deluded enough to think SF would shake up the system... this would indicate that they'd be right at home in government with Fianna Fail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 25, 2013, 09:25:59 PM
@SJAMcBride: DUP & SF join forces to vote through (54-33) Planning Bill amendment restricting individuals' right to legally challenge planning decisions

@markdevenport: MLAs vote 54 to 33 in favour of DUP/SF proposal potentially restricting right to judicial reviews on planning decisions


Not only will Peter and Martin make the decisions, but they'll be beyond challenge!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:20:39 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground
Absolutely they should pull out of the Executive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on June 26, 2013, 08:57:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:20:39 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground
Absolutely they should pull out of the Executive.

Boo Hoo We are not winning so I am taking my ball and going home ;D Too late they have fuked up too many times so they will be the side show for many years. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.
You are wrong there, Joe's words only echo those of big Al. Anyway to the point we now have no credible Nationalist or Republican parties to vote for. The Stoops are just Stoopid, and the and what remains of the Shinners may as well join their former colleagues in FF, as the Developers Party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 26, 2013, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
what remains of the Shinners may as well join their former colleagues in FF, as the Developers Party.

But sure they're against all that sort of thing in the 26  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:59:00 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 26, 2013, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
what remains of the Shinners may as well join their former colleagues in FF, as the Developers Party.

But sure they're against all that sort of thing in the 26  ;)
Wait to they are in government.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.
You are wrong there, Joe's words only echo those of big Al. Anyway to the point we now have no credible Nationalist or Republican parties to vote for. The Stoops are just Stoopid, and the and what remains of the Shinners may as well join their former colleagues in FF, as the Developers Party.
No doubt you can provide the quote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 05:32:44 PM
Quote from: glens abu on June 26, 2013, 08:57:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:20:39 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground
Absolutely they should pull out of the Executive.

Boo Hoo We are not winning so I am taking my ball and going home ;D Too late they have fuked up too many times so they will be the side show for many years.
Would they not be leaving the ball for SF/DUP to play with?

Anyway, no comments on the amendments to the planning bill?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 05:38:07 PM
The DUP and Sinn Fein joined forces for the second night in a row last night to vote through controversial planning reforms which provoked allegations of "fascism" from rival MLAs.

Members of Stormont's two main parties had the numbers to comfortably see through a proposal which restricts the ability of individuals to legally challenge planning decisions.

Amendment 26 to the Planning Bill saw fierce criticism of the two lead parties in the Executive, a day after they voted through proposals to give Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness' department the power to relax planning regulations by creating special economic zones.

Yesterday's amendment – which emerged at short notice at the end of last week – faced a barrage of criticism from rival MLAs and only limited defence from the sparsely-occupied DUP and Sinn Fein benches.

And, whereas the DUP's Peter Weir spoke confidently and took several interventions from rival MLAs as he argued that it was necessary to curtail court challenges to speed the planning process, Sinn Fein's Cathal Boylan read large sections of his speech explaining the amendment and declined to take questions from other MLAs.

Mr Boylan denied the accusation, made during the previous day's debate, that his heart was not in what he was saying and that he was unenthusiastic about the proposals, saying that "nothing could be further from the truth". Mr Weir said that "the planning regime has, at times, been a disincentive" to investment.

NI21's Basil McCrea said that the proposals were "getting close to fascism and I don't say that lightly...it's tantamount to a fascist state in a totalitarian mode".

Reading a section of the amendment which said that some planning decisions "shall not be subject to appeal or liable to be questioned in any court", Mr McCrea said it was "a fundamental challenge to our democracy" and argued that any government decision should be open to challenge if it was unlawful. Green Party leader Steven Agnew said that "to err is to be human" and by restricting challenges to ministerial decisions, the two main parties were suggesting that ministers were infallible.

SDLP deputy leader Dolores Kelly said there had been a "power grab from local councils" on Monday night and yesterday there was "a power grab from citizens".

Alliance's Stewart Dickson said that he "heard the echo of the jackboot" in the amendment while TUV leader Jim Allister said that it was a "tyrannical" message from ministers to citizens saying: "How dare you challenge my decision?"

But DUP minister Edwin Poots said that "the judicial review process has been abused".

He argued that judicial reviews had "very often [been] a lawyers' charter paid for by legal aid" or else a forum for rival developers attempting to block each other.

But Mr Allister said that removing challenge to decisions was "an invitation to bad and corruptible decisions" as there was "no court looking over your shoulder". And he said that some DUP and Sinn Fein MLAs would vote for the amendments having not even read them and even if they did, some "would probably not even understand them"

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/restrictions-on-some-court-challenges-fascist-say-mlas-1-5223286


Yet more examples of how to govern...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 27, 2013, 10:01:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.
You are wrong there, Joe's words only echo those of big Al. Anyway to the point we now have no credible Nationalist or Republican parties to vote for. The Stoops are just Stoopid, and the and what remains of the Shinners may as well join their former colleagues in FF, as the Developers Party.
No doubt you can provide the quote.
Stephen Nolan played Al over and over as he stated that there were different levels of victimhood, well rehearsed on another thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on June 27, 2013, 03:31:50 PM
George Orwell could have put the last sentence in Animal Farm to what is going on up in Stormont today with the DUP and SF:

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 27, 2013, 07:25:14 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2013, 10:01:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.
You are wrong there, Joe's words only echo those of big Al. Anyway to the point we now have no credible Nationalist or Republican parties to vote for. The Stoops are just Stoopid, and the and what remains of the Shinners may as well join their former colleagues in FF, as the Developers Party.
No doubt you can provide the quote.
Stephen Nolan played Al over and over as he stated that there were different levels of victimhood, well rehearsed on another thread.
'Big Al' differentiated victims on the basis of who the victim is (i.e. innocent bystander or 'combatant') - which, in my mind, is perfectly reasonable, whereas Joe Byrne appeared to draw a distinction between victims on the basis of who murdered them - which, for obvious reasons makes little sense (and I'd be surprised if he wouldn't clarify his position if asked). Therefore he didn't echo the party leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on June 27, 2013, 07:43:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 27, 2013, 07:25:14 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2013, 10:01:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.
You are wrong there, Joe's words only echo those of big Al. Anyway to the point we now have no credible Nationalist or Republican parties to vote for. The Stoops are just Stoopid, and the and what remains of the Shinners may as well join their former colleagues in FF, as the Developers Party.
No doubt you can provide the quote.
Stephen Nolan played Al over and over as he stated that there were different levels of victimhood, well rehearsed on another thread.
'Big Al' differentiated victims on the basis of who the victim is (i.e. innocent bystander or 'combatant') - which, in my mind, is perfectly reasonable, whereas Joe Byrne appeared to draw a distinction between victims on the basis of who murdered them - which, for obvious reasons makes little sense (and I'd be surprised if he wouldn't clarify his position if asked). Therefore he didn't echo the party leader.
Maguire it was no slip of the tongue. It's just the way people are seemingly conditioned to think about the conflict here. Only IRA victims matter because the IRA were the baddies in it all. If he didn't mean it, he would realise how insulting it is to families of collusion victims and he wouldn't have to wait until asked before "clarifying his position".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 27, 2013, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 27, 2013, 07:43:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 27, 2013, 07:25:14 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2013, 10:01:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.
You are wrong there, Joe's words only echo those of big Al. Anyway to the point we now have no credible Nationalist or Republican parties to vote for. The Stoops are just Stoopid, and the and what remains of the Shinners may as well join their former colleagues in FF, as the Developers Party.
No doubt you can provide the quote.
Stephen Nolan played Al over and over as he stated that there were different levels of victimhood, well rehearsed on another thread.
'Big Al' differentiated victims on the basis of who the victim is (i.e. innocent bystander or 'combatant') - which, in my mind, is perfectly reasonable, whereas Joe Byrne appeared to draw a distinction between victims on the basis of who murdered them - which, for obvious reasons makes little sense (and I'd be surprised if he wouldn't clarify his position if asked). Therefore he didn't echo the party leader.
Maguire it was no slip of the tongue. It's just the way people are seemingly conditioned to think about the conflict here. Only IRA victims matter because the IRA were the baddies in it all. If he didn't mean it, he would realise how insulting it is to families of collusion victims and he wouldn't have to wait until asked before "clarifying his position".
I'd give him the benefit of the doubt (I don't know if he has been directly challenged on it or realised how he said what he said) - I understand you wouldn't. But if he meant it, I think he's well off the mark.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on June 27, 2013, 08:13:18 PM
Quote'Big Al' differentiated victims on the basis of who the victim is (i.e. innocent bystander or 'combatant') - which, in my mind, is perfectly reasonable, whereas Joe Byrne appeared to draw a distinction between victims on the basis of who murdered them - which, for obvious reasons makes little sense (and I'd be surprised if he wouldn't clarify his position if asked). Therefore he didn't echo the party leader.

All the same Byrne's contention about innocent victims of the IRA clearly has the possibility that there are other victims of the IRA. This is quite different from the Unionist position and as such I don't think it is worth all of the talk about it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on June 29, 2013, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.

Would SF backing of this proposal be a big 2 fingers to Danny Kennedy for his handling of the A5 upgrade?
A further application for a new A5 could be pushed through despite objections from the AA5A.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 30, 2013, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on June 29, 2013, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.

Would SF backing of this proposal be a big 2 fingers to Danny Kennedy for his handling of the A5 upgrade?
A further application for a new A5 could be pushed through despite objections from the AA5A.
Totally unrelated.  It was a High Court Judge who made the decision on the A5, not planners. This move won't do anything to speed up the project.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on June 30, 2013, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 30, 2013, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on June 29, 2013, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2013, 07:19:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 25, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
Stoops are so stupid it's unreal. If they had any wit wee Alex would resign and they would go into opposition holding the moral high ground

Whatever pretence they had of being on a moral high ground, they blew it completely to the wind last month with their support for Jim Allister and his legislation which contravened the GFA, and their assistance in copper fastening a hierarchy of victims.

"The innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA" (Joe Byrne, SDLP MLA, June 2013)

That's right Joe. Victims of the state are of less importance than IRA victims. Nice to hear.  >:(
I'm sure if Joe Byrne was asked the question directly he'd clarify any misunderstanding. It seems like a clumsy use of words rather than anything more sinister.
In my mind, there absolutely is a hierarchy of victims, but that's determined by who the victim is, rather than the perpetrator.

But anyway, we've been over this several times on the other thread - how about some discussion on this planning issue? I appreciate it's probably a little more uncomfortable for you.

Would SF backing of this proposal be a big 2 fingers to Danny Kennedy for his handling of the A5 upgrade?
A further application for a new A5 could be pushed through despite objections from the AA5A.
Totally unrelated.  It was a High Court Judge who made the decision on the A5, not planners. This move won't do anything to speed up the project.
Not this project in its current incarnation, but any future A5 could not be stalled by pressure groups and a lack of will from Kennedy if it was deemed to be of economic benefit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on July 07, 2013, 10:56:07 AM
The Boston College tapes with Dolores Price have now been officially handed over to the cops here.

There'll be a few more denials from Gerry for a while I would imagine.

Gerry's move to Louth could be good news and bad.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 25, 2013, 08:59:48 PM
Some of the sharpest minds in the business...


MLA sorry over Royal birth tweet

SINN Fein assembly member Phil Flanagan has been forced to apologise after sharing a sexually vulgar tweet about the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge on his Twitter page.

The Fermanagh-south Tyrone MLA 'retweeted' the crude comment to his 3,600 plus followers on Monday evening before news was announced of the birth of the Royal couple's first child.

The unsavoury tweet written by user @Threepwood2012 and shared on the social-networking site by Mr Flanagan and others read: "The news says that duchess doll entered the hospital via a back entrance. If William had done the same we wouldn't have to suffer this balls."

Mr Flanagan also 'favourited' the tweet which was just one of several tweets visible on his Twitter page that poked fun at, or was critical of, the Royal family, but by far the most offensive.

Yesterday (Wednesday) the politician and father-of-two apologised saying he retweeted the tweet "in a split second error of judgement."

In a statement to The Impartial Reporter, Mr Flanagan said: "In a split second error of judgement, I misconstrued the meaning of this tweet and re-tweeted it to my followers in that context. I innocently believed that this joke was about an expectant father being spotted entering the hospital through the front door, leading to a two day media circus with no news to report."

He added: "In hindsight, I can now understand the potential double meaning that some may read into this, but this was not my intention. I apologise for any offence that this may have caused anyone."

It is not known if by retweeting the remark Mr Flanagan breached the MLA Code of Conduct which states: "Members should keep in mind that rude and offensive behaviour may lower the public's regard for, and confidence in, Members and the Assembly itself. Members should therefore show respect and consideration for others at all times."

Last year Ulster Unionist MLA Tom Elliott said he was considering reporting Mr Flanagan to the the Standards and Privileges Committee at Stormont for referring to him as a 'clampit' on Twitter. Mr Flanagan used the word [which means hill-billy] to describe Mr Elliott and UUP leader, Mike Nesbitt.

http://www.impartialreporter.com/news/roundup/articles/2013/07/25/401767-mla-sorry-over-royal-birth-tweet/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on July 25, 2013, 09:06:43 PM
I think mcguinness' reaction is just as bad........' I wish to praise all the new mothers today who gave birth'; or along them lines
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 25, 2013, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 25, 2013, 08:59:48 PM
Some of the sharpest minds in the business...


MLA sorry over Royal birth tweet

SINN Fein assembly member Phil Flanagan has been forced to apologise after sharing a sexually vulgar tweet about the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge on his Twitter page.

The Fermanagh-south Tyrone MLA 'retweeted' the crude comment to his 3,600 plus followers on Monday evening before news was announced of the birth of the Royal couple's first child.

The unsavoury tweet written by user @Threepwood2012 and shared on the social-networking site by Mr Flanagan and others read: "The news says that duchess doll entered the hospital via a back entrance. If William had done the same we wouldn't have to suffer this balls."

Mr Flanagan also 'favourited' the tweet which was just one of several tweets visible on his Twitter page that poked fun at, or was critical of, the Royal family, but by far the most offensive.

Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on July 25, 2013, 09:22:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 25, 2013, 08:59:48 PM
Some of the sharpest minds in the business...


MLA sorry over Royal birth tweet

SINN Fein assembly member Phil Flanagan has been forced to apologise after sharing a sexually vulgar tweet about the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge on his Twitter page.

The Fermanagh-south Tyrone MLA 'retweeted' the crude comment to his 3,600 plus followers on Monday evening before news was announced of the birth of the Royal couple's first child.

The unsavoury tweet written by user @Threepwood2012 and shared on the social-networking site by Mr Flanagan and others read: "The news says that duchess doll entered the hospital via a back entrance. If William had done the same we wouldn't have to suffer this balls."

Mr Flanagan also 'favourited' the tweet which was just one of several tweets visible on his Twitter page that poked fun at, or was critical of, the Royal family, but by far the most offensive.

Yesterday (Wednesday) the politician and father-of-two apologised saying he retweeted the tweet "in a split second error of judgement."

In a statement to The Impartial Reporter, Mr Flanagan said: "In a split second error of judgement, I misconstrued the meaning of this tweet and re-tweeted it to my followers in that context. I innocently believed that this joke was about an expectant father being spotted entering the hospital through the front door, leading to a two day media circus with no news to report."

He added: "In hindsight, I can now understand the potential double meaning that some may read into this, but this was not my intention. I apologise for any offence that this may have caused anyone."

It is not known if by retweeting the remark Mr Flanagan breached the MLA Code of Conduct which states: "Members should keep in mind that rude and offensive behaviour may lower the public's regard for, and confidence in, Members and the Assembly itself. Members should therefore show respect and consideration for others at all times."

Last year Ulster Unionist MLA Tom Elliott said he was considering reporting Mr Flanagan to the the Standards and Privileges Committee at Stormont for referring to him as a 'clampit' on Twitter. Mr Flanagan used the word [which means hill-billy] to describe Mr Elliott and UUP leader, Mike Nesbitt.

http://www.impartialreporter.com/news/roundup/articles/2013/07/25/401767-mla-sorry-over-royal-birth-tweet/

Not acceptable behaviour at all,and just glad the apology was made.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on July 25, 2013, 10:37:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 25, 2013, 08:59:48 PM
MLA Code of Conduct which states: "Members should keep in mind that rude and offensive behaviour may lower the public's regard for, and confidence in, Members and the Assembly itself. Members should therefore show respect and consideration for others at all times."


Is there any of them that hasn't broken that requirement ? ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on July 25, 2013, 11:21:05 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 25, 2013, 09:06:43 PM
I think mcguinness' reaction is just as bad........' I wish to praise all the new mothers today who gave birth'; or along them lines

What's wrong with that? Hardly offensive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: qubdub on July 25, 2013, 11:23:16 PM
Think SF should ban flanagan from twitter. Not the first time he spouted shite on it - see to recall him calling (fivemiletown?) a black hole. Childish.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on July 26, 2013, 12:00:37 AM
Quote from: ranch on July 25, 2013, 11:21:05 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 25, 2013, 09:06:43 PM
I think mcguinness' reaction is just as bad........' I wish to praise all the new mothers today who gave birth'; or along them lines

What's wrong with that? Hardly offensive.

Ah ranch me oul mucker.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ranch on July 26, 2013, 12:05:08 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 26, 2013, 12:00:37 AM
Quote from: ranch on July 25, 2013, 11:21:05 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 25, 2013, 09:06:43 PM
I think mcguinness' reaction is just as bad........' I wish to praise all the new mothers today who gave birth'; or along them lines

What's wrong with that? Hardly offensive.

Ah ranch me oul mucker.

If you're referring to the fact that his sentence makes no sense then fair enough. If not, then there's no problem.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on July 26, 2013, 12:07:37 AM
Quote from: ranch on July 26, 2013, 12:05:08 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 26, 2013, 12:00:37 AM
Quote from: ranch on July 25, 2013, 11:21:05 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 25, 2013, 09:06:43 PM
I think mcguinness' reaction is just as bad........' I wish to praise all the new mothers today who gave birth'; or along them lines

What's wrong with that? Hardly offensive.

Ah ranch me oul mucker.

If you're referring to the fact that his sentence makes no sense then fair enough. If not, then there's no problem.

Do ye not see it as a 'hidden' congratulations to the british royal couple?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on July 26, 2013, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: ranch on July 26, 2013, 12:05:08 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 26, 2013, 12:00:37 AM
Quote from: ranch on July 25, 2013, 11:21:05 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 25, 2013, 09:06:43 PM
I think mcguinness' reaction is just as bad........' I wish to praise all the new mothers today who gave birth'; or along them lines

What's wrong with that? Hardly offensive.

Ah ranch me oul mucker.

If you're referring to the fact that his sentence makes no sense then fair enough. If not, then there's no problem.

Think unless you are looking to pick holes in everything SF it's obvious that Martin was by congratulating all Mothers who gave birth that day he was saying that none of the births was more important than the other.Simples but not for everyone obviously
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on July 26, 2013, 04:31:34 PM
I think of mcguinness said nothing it all it may have looked better.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on July 26, 2013, 04:49:55 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 26, 2013, 04:31:34 PM
I think of mcguinness said nothing it all it may have looked better.


HARDY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on July 26, 2013, 05:00:34 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 26, 2013, 04:31:34 PM
I think of mcguinness said nothing it all it may have looked better.

If asked a question he has to answer and seems to be the best answer he could give without sounding bad hearted about the birth of a child.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 26, 2013, 05:14:21 PM
Quote from: glens abu on July 26, 2013, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: ranch on July 26, 2013, 12:05:08 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 26, 2013, 12:00:37 AM
Quote from: ranch on July 25, 2013, 11:21:05 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 25, 2013, 09:06:43 PM
I think mcguinness' reaction is just as bad........' I wish to praise all the new mothers today who gave birth'; or along them lines

What's wrong with that? Hardly offensive.

Ah ranch me oul mucker.

If you're referring to the fact that his sentence makes no sense then fair enough. If not, then there's no problem.

Think unless you are looking to pick holes in everything SF it's obvious that Martin was by congratulating all Mothers who gave birth that day he was saying that none of the births was more important than the other.Simples but not for everyone obviously
It's like Fr Ted - "Of course... they all have lovely bottoms!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnYoFmBagmk
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on July 27, 2013, 04:45:55 PM
marty said the exact same thing as the stoops. I don't hear anyone yapping about it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 27, 2013, 07:48:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 27, 2013, 04:45:55 PM
marty said the exact same thing as the stoops. I don't hear anyone yapping about it
Brilliant! The journey continues!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on July 27, 2013, 09:50:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 27, 2013, 07:48:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 27, 2013, 04:45:55 PM
marty said the exact same thing as the stoops. I don't hear anyone yapping about it
Brilliant! The journey continues!
I think the secret is in the name.. republican ie believes in a republic ie no monarchy. as opposed to sycophantic pretend to be goody goody, sell my own mother and inspect HM's troops on the quiet and because its free and back stab anyone who gets in my way stoops.. journey

and engage in horticultural activities journey..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on August 27, 2013, 11:09:53 PM
(http://i0n0.com/picturearchives/frontpage/20130826/News/1282649/hl_thumb_A02P101-13.jpg)

Is Martin holding captive a wee dog ?

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/derry-residents-answer-call-to-arms-at-city-walls-1.1505474
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 02, 2013, 07:12:52 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 27, 2013, 11:09:53 PM
(http://i0n0.com/picturearchives/frontpage/20130826/News/1282649/hl_thumb_A02P101-13.jpg)

Is Martin holding captive a wee dog ?

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/derry-residents-answer-call-to-arms-at-city-walls-1.1505474
that's Gregory Campbell's dog.. no messing marty minded her for a week while greg was on hols
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on September 02, 2013, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 02, 2013, 07:12:52 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 27, 2013, 11:09:53 PM
(http://i0n0.com/picturearchives/frontpage/20130826/News/1282649/hl_thumb_A02P101-13.jpg)

Is Martin holding captive a wee dog ?

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/derry-residents-answer-call-to-arms-at-city-walls-1.1505474
that's Gregory Campbell's dog.. no messing marty minded her for a week while greg was on hols


The wee dog looks scared ! Does Greg return when favour when Marty goes on his hollers ?

It's great the way the people in Derry - Londonderry get on so well - pity the Belfast boys wouldn't take a leaf out of Marty and Greg's book.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 02, 2013, 01:33:05 PM
Uninteresting fact: The Dean of St Columb's Cathedral in Derry hi, is the Very Reverend William Morton (Willie to his old friends), who was born and bred in Poyntzpass. I bet Tony Fearon didn't know that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: qubdub on September 02, 2013, 01:46:29 PM
it's Marty's own dog he's never done posting pics up of it on his twitter account!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 05, 2013, 11:07:17 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)

You guys  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on September 05, 2013, 10:53:43 PM
So lads, is this the thread where we talk about Fine Gael?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Christ people keep referring to my party of choice, presumably the SDLP, just because I challenge SF positions . As a voter it is my right. I haven't voted SDLP since 1983.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Christ people keep referring to my party of choice, presumably the SDLP, just because I challenge SF positions . As a voter it is my right. I haven't voted SDLP since 1983.
Who all did that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 10:39:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Christ people keep referring to my party of choice, presumably the SDLP, just because I challenge SF positions . As a voter it is my right. I haven't voted SDLP since 1983.
Who all did that?
Did what?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 10:39:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Christ people keep referring to my party of choice, presumably the SDLP, just because I challenge SF positions . As a voter it is my right. I haven't voted SDLP since 1983.
Who all did that?
Did what?
Who are all the people referring to your party of choice? Lawnseed and....?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on September 06, 2013, 01:21:40 PM
Morning Ireland reporting this morning that Chris Andrews is at the SF "think-in" in Carlingford today. Gerry A says he's not a member but refusing to say if he's going to run for them in Dublin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on September 06, 2013, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: Ulick on September 06, 2013, 01:21:40 PM
Morning Ireland reporting this morning that Chris Andrews is at the SF "think-in" in Carlingford today. Gerry A says he's not a member but refusing to say if he's going to run for them in Dublin.

I heard he had applied to join the party,and will need to be a member for at least 6 months before he could stand in council elections.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on September 06, 2013, 02:43:55 PM
FF + SF = Lawnseed's dream team.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 10:39:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Christ people keep referring to my party of choice, presumably the SDLP, just because I challenge SF positions . As a voter it is my right. I haven't voted SDLP since 1983.
Who all did that?
Did what?
Who are all the people referring to your party of choice? Lawnseed and....?
A couple of others on another thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 10:39:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Christ people keep referring to my party of choice, presumably the SDLP, just because I challenge SF positions . As a voter it is my right. I haven't voted SDLP since 1983.
Who all did that?
Did what?
Who are all the people referring to your party of choice? Lawnseed and....?
A couple of others on another thread.
That's awful Who were they?!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 06, 2013, 03:19:08 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 10:39:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Christ people keep referring to my party of choice, presumably the SDLP, just because I challenge SF positions . As a voter it is my right. I haven't voted SDLP since 1983.
Who all did that?
Did what?
Who are all the people referring to your party of choice? Lawnseed and....?
A couple of others on another thread.

That's surprising, especially considering the amount of times you say " I not a SDLP supporter but....."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 10:39:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Christ people keep referring to my party of choice, presumably the SDLP, just because I challenge SF positions . As a voter it is my right. I haven't voted SDLP since 1983.
Who all did that?
Did what?
Who are all the people referring to your party of choice? Lawnseed and....?
A couple of others on another thread.
That's awful Who were they?!
Not really that awful, the could have called me a Shinner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 03:41:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 10:39:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 06, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2013, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 05, 2013, 12:25:23 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 03, 2013, 08:46:36 AM
Very apt given that Sinn Fein are now the poodles of the Unionist state!
you mean british state.. poodles of the british state ::)
No Unionist State...run by the DUP...woof woof!
Democratically run by the executive in stormont you mean where your party of choice take part for as long as they last between growing things they shouldnt and being sliveens
Christ people keep referring to my party of choice, presumably the SDLP, just because I challenge SF positions . As a voter it is my right. I haven't voted SDLP since 1983.
Who all did that?
Did what?
Who are all the people referring to your party of choice? Lawnseed and....?
A couple of others on another thread.
That's awful Who were they?!
Not really that awful, the could have called me a Shinner.
So who were they all?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 06, 2013, 07:09:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on September 06, 2013, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: Ulick on September 06, 2013, 01:21:40 PM
Morning Ireland reporting this morning that Chris Andrews is at the SF "think-in" in Carlingford today. Gerry A says he's not a member but refusing to say if he's going to run for them in Dublin.

I heard he had applied to join the party,and will need to be a member for at least 6 months before he could stand in council elections.
Still plenty of time then. But would most Shinners not be strongly opposed to this? Not just in terms of parachuting in an outsider as a candidate, but standing a candidate who was a FF TD between 2007-11, presumably voting with the then government on matters that have the country in the state it's in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on September 06, 2013, 07:18:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 06, 2013, 07:09:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on September 06, 2013, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: Ulick on September 06, 2013, 01:21:40 PM
Morning Ireland reporting this morning that Chris Andrews is at the SF "think-in" in Carlingford today. Gerry A says he's not a member but refusing to say if he's going to run for them in Dublin.

I heard he had applied to join the party,and will need to be a member for at least 6 months before he could stand in council elections.
Still plenty of time then. But would most Shinners not be strongly opposed to this? Not just in terms of parachuting in an outsider as a candidate, but standing a candidate who was a FF TD between 2007-11, presumably voting with the then government on matters that have the country in the state it's in.

I suppose some would alright but if he joins the party and by doing so agrees to support all party policies,goes forward for selection gets selected by the party for council then don't see the big problem but others may see it different.We have selected an ex RUC and Unionist in the past so would be hard to argue against a FFer
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 07, 2013, 12:59:46 AM
Quote from: muppet on September 06, 2013, 02:43:55 PM
FF + SF = Lawnseed's dream team.
Is this another one of your craptions
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 07, 2013, 01:07:47 AM
Apples i'm assuming you vote in nordie elections therefore 'Your' party of choice IS in government in the unionist run state if thats how you see it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 07, 2013, 10:46:28 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 07, 2013, 01:07:47 AM
Apples i'm assuming you vote in nordie elections therefore 'Your' party of choice IS in government in the unionist run state if thats how you see it.
That's about right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 07, 2013, 03:34:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 07, 2013, 10:46:28 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 07, 2013, 01:07:47 AM
Apples i'm assuming you vote in nordie elections therefore 'Your' party of choice IS in government in the unionist run state if thats how you see it.
That's about right.
exactly "that's how 'you' see it"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 07, 2013, 06:09:29 PM
Brilliant - SF has actually signed up Chris Andrews!

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/27431


And Slugger has kindly posted some old tweets "from @brianformerff, later identified as ex-TD Chris Andrews"

Friday, Mar 23, 3.12pm @MaryLouMcDonald Hard to take SF/Adams lecturing Bertie on being corrupt after all they have done!! Keep out of it. #mahon

Thursday, Mar 29, 11am [twitter handle deleted] I agree with a lot of your views but given what SF has done to innocent people its a bit much listening to you pontificate.

11.01am [twitter handle deleted] Was it not corrupt to bury mother of 10 Jean Mc Conville. Is that acceptable to you. Selective outrage i thinks!!

11.03am [twitter handle deleted] What about the ink cartridges! was that okay? Hard to take SF being moralistic!! Its not their thing!

1.43pm [twitter handle deleted] knows all about killing given the amount of people Sinn Féin Reps killed over the years. #jeanmcconville

Wednesday, Apr 18, 12.39pm [twitter handle deleted] Ordinary working class people who have guns stuck in their face by your friends. they are the ones terrorised.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 08, 2013, 02:22:57 PM
Bad move bringing in ff traitors. Shows the weakness in sinn fein 26. Thats 3 names in my dungout book ger, angus and andrews.
Then maybe thats the type of canadidate the sheep prefer.. ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 08, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 08, 2013, 02:22:57 PM
Bad move bringing in ff traitors. Shows the weakness in sinn fein 26. Thats 3 names in my dungout book ger, angus and andrews.
Then maybe thats the type of canadidate the sheep prefer.. ::)
Partitionist!

And if it's about "the type of candidate the sheep prefer", surely that just shows that SF will do anything for power.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 08, 2013, 03:31:42 PM
SF is looking for FF voters, so this seems logical.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 09, 2013, 07:21:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 08, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 08, 2013, 02:22:57 PM
Bad move bringing in ff traitors. Shows the weakness in sinn fein 26. Thats 3 names in my dungout book ger, angus and andrews.
Then maybe that's the type of candidate the sheep prefer.. ::)
Partitionist!

And if it's about "the type of candidate the sheep prefer", surely that just shows that SF will do anything for power.

actually nearly 80 years of modern Irish history shows clearly that ff are the dominant Irish party. therefore it follows that Andrews is the type of candidate Irish people like to vote for. he would not be my type of candidate and were he representing my area I would not vote for him. joining the party doesn't mean you'll be selected to run in an election.

I suppose if your hero Conal was to turn up looking to join sinn fein you'd get equally exited. but we've enough strays for now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 09, 2013, 08:05:03 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 09, 2013, 07:21:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 08, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 08, 2013, 02:22:57 PM
Bad move bringing in ff traitors. Shows the weakness in sinn fein 26. Thats 3 names in my dungout book ger, angus and andrews.
Then maybe that's the type of candidate the sheep prefer.. ::)
Partitionist!

And if it's about "the type of candidate the sheep prefer", surely that just shows that SF will do anything for power.

actually nearly 80 years of modern Irish history shows clearly that ff are the dominant Irish party. therefore it follows that Andrews is the type of candidate Irish people like to vote for. he would not be my type of candidate and were he representing my area I would not vote for him. joining the party doesn't mean you'll be selected to run in an election.

I suppose if your hero Conal was to turn up looking to join sinn fein you'd get equally exited. but we've enough strays for now.
Hero's a bit strong. And I'd be far from excited. But given that SF has accepted a FF TD who was in power from 2007-11, it's clear they'd accept just about anyone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on September 09, 2013, 08:45:44 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 09, 2013, 08:05:03 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 09, 2013, 07:21:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 08, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 08, 2013, 02:22:57 PM
Bad move bringing in ff traitors. Shows the weakness in sinn fein 26. Thats 3 names in my dungout book ger, angus and andrews.
Then maybe that's the type of candidate the sheep prefer.. ::)
Partitionist!

And if it's about "the type of candidate the sheep prefer", surely that just shows that SF will do anything for power.

Who remembers a fella called Billy Leonard.........

actually nearly 80 years of modern Irish history shows clearly that ff are the dominant Irish party. therefore it follows that Andrews is the type of candidate Irish people like to vote for. he would not be my type of candidate and were he representing my area I would not vote for him. joining the party doesn't mean you'll be selected to run in an election.

I suppose if your hero Conal was to turn up looking to join sinn fein you'd get equally exited. but we've enough strays for now.
Hero's a bit strong. And I'd be far from excited. But given that SF has accepted a FF TD who was in power from 2007-11, it's clear they'd accept just about anyone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 09, 2013, 09:04:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 09, 2013, 07:21:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 08, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 08, 2013, 02:22:57 PM
Bad move bringing in ff traitors. Shows the weakness in sinn fein 26. Thats 3 names in my dungout book ger, angus and andrews.
Then maybe that's the type of candidate the sheep prefer.. ::)
Partitionist!

And if it's about "the type of candidate the sheep prefer", surely that just shows that SF will do anything for power.

actually nearly 80 years of modern Irish history shows clearly that ff are the dominant Irish party. therefore it follows that Andrews is the type of candidate Irish people like to vote for. he would not be my type of candidate and were he representing my area I would not vote for him. joining the party doesn't mean you'll be selected to run in an election.
Give the people whatever they want to get you into power then. The more things change...
Also, is it not a bit naive to think that he hasn't already been assured he'll be a candidate?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 09, 2013, 09:18:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 09, 2013, 09:04:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 09, 2013, 07:21:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 08, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 08, 2013, 02:22:57 PM
Bad move bringing in ff traitors. Shows the weakness in sinn fein 26. Thats 3 names in my dungout book ger, angus and andrews.
Then maybe that's the type of candidate the sheep prefer.. ::)
Partitionist!

And if it's about "the type of candidate the sheep prefer", surely that just shows that SF will do anything for power.

actually nearly 80 years of modern Irish history shows clearly that ff are the dominant Irish party. therefore it follows that Andrews is the type of candidate Irish people like to vote for. he would not be my type of candidate and were he representing my area I would not vote for him. joining the party doesn't mean you'll be selected to run in an election.
Give the people whatever they want to get you into power then. The more things change...
Also, is it not a bit naive to think that he hasn't already been assured he'll be a candidate?
I suppose its worth mentioning that its Andrews who has joined sinn fein not sinn fein who has joined fianna fail. I fairly sure it was bertie who sent the stoops scurrying back over the border when they all wanted to become fainna fail not that long ago.
I suppose he saw them queing up for the bingo and nearly busted his arse laughing..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 10, 2013, 09:09:15 PM
So, Caral Ni Chuilin's hinting at a bid from NI to host the Commonwealth Games.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/minister-hints-at-bid-for-games-29568416.html

Now given that the 2014 games are in Glasgow and the 2018 games in Australia, she can't be looking any earlier than 2022 - which raises the question, is this an admission that Norn Iron is here for the forseeable, or that a United Ireland should re-enter the Commonwealth?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on September 10, 2013, 09:17:50 PM
What next???...The "All Northern Ireland Senior Football Championship" sponsored by the Presbyterian Mutual Society??  Mind you Antrim would still have no feckin' chance!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 11, 2013, 10:04:44 AM
They may call it "The North", "this place" or the 6 Counties" but SF/SDLP's cosy little inclusive executive has placed Irish Unity so far in the future it is quite likely that Gibraltar and Spain will be unified first. It's not even as if there is a smidgen of recognition of any Irish detention in the state...completely represented at home and abroad by purely Unionist/British symbols. Unionists don't even have the generosity of spirit to recognise any Irish dimension whatsoever. Hence their ulsterisation of Seamus Heaney and the continuing references to us all being British Citizens. As an Irish person living in Northern Ireland my identity and allegiances are not given any recognition and our political parties seem unwilling or unable to change this any time soon. That said a vast majority of nationalists are quite happy to accept this. My prediction is in 2116 there will be a unionist controlled administration here and they will only be 25% of the population.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on September 11, 2013, 08:36:02 PM
Carol ni chulihin wants to bring the commenthwealth games here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 11, 2013, 09:53:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 11, 2013, 08:36:02 PM
Carol ni chulihin wants to bring the commenthwealth games here.
From the party that brought us UK City of culture!! Republican my ar*e!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 11, 2013, 11:19:28 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 11, 2013, 10:04:44 AM
They may call it "The North", "this place" or the 6 Counties" but SF/SDLP's cosy little inclusive executive has placed Irish Unity so far in the future it is quite likely that Gibraltar and Spain will be unified first. It's not even as if there is a smidgen of recognition of any Irish detention in the state...completely represented at home and abroad by purely Unionist/British symbols. Unionists don't even have the generosity of spirit to recognise any Irish dimension whatsoever. Hence their ulsterisation of Seamus Heaney and the continuing references to us all being British Citizens. As an Irish person living in Northern Ireland my identity and allegiances are not given any recognition and our political parties seem unwilling or unable to change this any time soon. That said a vast majority of nationalists are quite happy to accept this. My prediction is in 2116 there will be a unionist controlled administration here and they will only be 25% of the population.
I think the problem lies south of the border such are the antics of the sliveen and sleazy adminstrations since partition that nationalists/republicans are sickened to the extent that they would give up their birthright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 11, 2013, 11:40:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 18, 2010, 08:47:19 PM
Yes Sinn Fein in meltdown would b a problem as they currently represent the only effective force in Irish Republican politics. Lets face it, if we're talking about the free state here, they are the only republican party in leinster house and the only party to stand for election in each of Ireland's 32 counties.

Any day SF is in meltdown is a good day for the 32 counties of Ireland as long of course their sister party the DUP aren't making hay.

(Before ya start about post being 2010 at least it's more up to date than the bigoted "Free State" lingo of Nally Stand)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 11, 2013, 11:41:22 PM
If SF get in government here after the next election, will the mess be sorted out?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 11, 2013, 11:48:00 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 11, 2013, 11:41:22 PM
If SF get in government here after the next election, will the mess be sorted out?

If Lawnseed gets into power all FG, FF, Labour will get a bullet to the head probably to reduce unemployment. But if they only let Shinners survive only the shiftless lazy knuckle draggers who survive on Dutch Gold and Jeremy Kyle will survive. Unemployment to rise to 99%, 1% being the SF high command in Govt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 11, 2013, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 11, 2013, 09:53:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 11, 2013, 08:36:02 PM
Carol ni chulihin wants to bring the commenthwealth games here.
From the party that brought us UK City of culture!! Republican my ar*e!

+1
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 12, 2013, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 11, 2013, 11:48:00 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 11, 2013, 11:41:22 PM
If SF get in government here after the next election, will the mess be sorted out?

If Lawnseed gets into power all FG, FF, Labour will get a bullet to the head probably to reduce unemployment. But if they only let Shinners survive only the shiftless lazy knuckle draggers who survive on Dutch Gold and Jeremy Kyle will survive. Unemployment to rise to 99%, 1% being the SF high command in Govt.
I may let you kiss my ring if your good
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on September 12, 2013, 08:11:45 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 11, 2013, 11:19:28 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 11, 2013, 10:04:44 AM
They may call it "The North", "this place" or the 6 Counties" but SF/SDLP's cosy little inclusive executive has placed Irish Unity so far in the future it is quite likely that Gibraltar and Spain will be unified first. It's not even as if there is a smidgen of recognition of any Irish detention in the state...completely represented at home and abroad by purely Unionist/British symbols. Unionists don't even have the generosity of spirit to recognise any Irish dimension whatsoever. Hence their ulsterisation of Seamus Heaney and the continuing references to us all being British Citizens. As an Irish person living in Northern Ireland my identity and allegiances are not given any recognition and our political parties seem unwilling or unable to change this any time soon. That said a vast majority of nationalists are quite happy to accept this. My prediction is in 2116 there will be a unionist controlled administration here and they will only be 25% of the population.
I think the problem lies south of the border such are the antics of the sliveen and sleazy adminstrations since partition that nationalists/republicans are sickened to the extent that they would give up their birthright.

So you're unionist now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on September 12, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 11, 2013, 09:53:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 11, 2013, 08:36:02 PM
Carol ni chulihin wants to bring the commenthwealth games here.
From the party that brought us UK City of culture!! Republican my ar*e!

So either there is going to be no Irish unity before 2022 or else a United Ireland will rejoin the commonwealth ???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 25, 2013, 10:27:58 PM
crisis!!! relations between the dup and the shinners are at an all time low according the Gerry Kelly this morning on fat Nolan. Gregory was there also.. ::) Gregory says the dup are doing what their voters want, and that they will never treat sinn fein the same as other democratic parties.  :-[ :-[
what are the alternatives.. play for time until the bad weather comes and Xmas hopefully the prods will forget about banging their drums long enough to get on with running this kip or maybe Haas can dig something up?.. or collapse the assembly and call an election... eehhmm../ what would happen?
firstly sinn fein's biggest opponents are not the unionists. the biggest enemy is the stoops they alone hold the only votes that sinn fein consider 'gettable'. right now an election IMO would see the end of the stoops, with the leader in waiting gone in disgrace and big AL busy counting his money, wee Ritchie ::) and Alex 'I ask myself questions.. and if I ask myself why do I do that.....' they have never been so vulnerable. also with basil and co away from the uup an election wouldn't do the dup any harm or would it? jim allister sure makes a lot of noise for a one man party..
this is great stuff real game of thrones
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on September 25, 2013, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 25, 2013, 10:27:58 PM
crisis!!! relations between the dup and the shinners are at an all time low according the Gerry Kelly this morning on fat Nolan. Gregory was there also.. ::) Gregory says the dup are doing what their voters want, and that they will never treat sinn fein the same as other democratic parties.  :-[ :-[
what are the alternatives.. play for time until the bad weather comes and Xmas hopefully the prods will forget about banging their drums long enough to get on with running this kip or maybe Haas can dig something up?.. or collapse the assembly and call an election... eehhmm../ what would happen?
firstly sinn fein's biggest opponents are not the unionists. the biggest enemy is the stoops they alone hold the only votes that sinn fein consider 'gettable'. right now an election IMO would see the end of the stoops, with the leader in waiting gone in disgrace and big AL busy counting his money, wee Ritchie ::) and Alex 'I ask myself questions.. and if I ask myself why do I do that.....' they have never been so vulnerable. also with basil and co away from the uup an election wouldn't do the dup any harm or would it? jim allister sure makes a lot of noise for a one man party..
this is great stuff real game of thrones

^^^Lobotomy alert^^^^


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 26, 2013, 07:22:48 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 25, 2013, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 25, 2013, 10:27:58 PM
crisis!!! relations between the dup and the shinners are at an all time low according the Gerry Kelly this morning on fat Nolan. Gregory was there also.. ::) Gregory says the dup are doing what their voters want, and that they will never treat sinn fein the same as other democratic parties.  :-[ :-[
what are the alternatives.. play for time until the bad weather comes and Xmas hopefully the prods will forget about banging their drums long enough to get on with running this kip or maybe Haas can dig something up?.. or collapse the assembly and call an election... eehhmm../ what would happen?
firstly sinn fein's biggest opponents are not the unionists. the biggest enemy is the stoops they alone hold the only votes that sinn fein consider 'gettable'. right now an election IMO would see the end of the stoops, with the leader in waiting gone in disgrace and big AL busy counting his money, wee Ritchie ::) and Alex 'I ask myself questions.. and if I ask myself why do I do that.....' they have never been so vulnerable. also with basil and co away from the uup an election wouldn't do the dup any harm or would it? jim allister sure makes a lot of noise for a one man party..
this is great stuff real game of thrones

^^^Lobotomy alert^^^^
what? I never mentioned laboratory
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 09:55:20 AM
I really think if Sinn Fein and the SDLP have any self respect, or respect for nationalism and Irish Identity they need to pull the plug on Stormont. The DUP are being led not by Peter Robinson, but by the bigotted no surrender kilt wearing faction exemplified by wee Nelson. A faction that can't tell the difference between the Highland Gaelic tradition brought to Scotland by Gael's from Ireland and what passes for lowland Scot's culture. There is no such phrase as parity of esteem in their language and equality and human rights don't exist. Robinson's barely concealed sectarianism in is deriding of Allister for selling land to Republicans shows what is just below the surface. Added to that the economy minister instead of pointing out that violent protest is bringing Belfast business too it's knees says that the city shouldn't be a cold house for protesters and marchers...you couldn't make it up. There are ordinary decent unionists out there who want to see this place move forward and wouldn't mind equality but they have no voice and are afraid to put their heads above the parapet, just as ordinary decent nationalists couldn't be seen to criticise the IRA in the troubles. Joint Sovereignty is the only answer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 09:55:20 AM
I really think if Sinn Fein and the SDLP have any self respect, or respect for nationalism and Irish Identity they need to pull the plug on Stormont. The DUP are being led not by Peter Robinson, but by the bigotted no surrender kilt wearing faction exemplified by wee Nelson. A faction that can't tell the difference between the Highland Gaelic tradition brought to Scotland by Gael's from Ireland and what passes for lowland Scot's culture. There is no such phrase as parity of esteem in their language and equality and human rights don't exist. Robinson's barely concealed sectarianism in is deriding of Allister for selling land to Republicans shows what is just below the surface. Added to that the economy minister instead of pointing out that violent protest is bringing Belfast business too it's knees says that the city shouldn't be a cold house for protesters and marchers...you couldn't make it up. There are ordinary decent unionists out there who want to see this place move forward and wouldn't mind equality but they have no voice and are afraid to put their heads above the parapet, just as ordinary decent nationalists couldn't be seen to criticise the IRA in the troubles. Joint Sovereignty is the only answer.

Odd that your idea of getting "respect for nationalism" is to hand more power to westminster.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 10:44:22 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 09:55:20 AM
I really think if Sinn Fein and the SDLP have any self respect, or respect for nationalism and Irish Identity they need to pull the plug on Stormont. The DUP are being led not by Peter Robinson, but by the bigotted no surrender kilt wearing faction exemplified by wee Nelson. A faction that can't tell the difference between the Highland Gaelic tradition brought to Scotland by Gael's from Ireland and what passes for lowland Scot's culture. There is no such phrase as parity of esteem in their language and equality and human rights don't exist. Robinson's barely concealed sectarianism in is deriding of Allister for selling land to Republicans shows what is just below the surface. Added to that the economy minister instead of pointing out that violent protest is bringing Belfast business too it's knees says that the city shouldn't be a cold house for protesters and marchers...you couldn't make it up. There are ordinary decent unionists out there who want to see this place move forward and wouldn't mind equality but they have no voice and are afraid to put their heads above the parapet, just as ordinary decent nationalists couldn't be seen to criticise the IRA in the troubles. Joint Sovereignty is the only answer.

Odd that your idea of getting "respect for nationalism" is to hand more power to westminster.
Westminister has ulimate power here any way, I want to see the Government from the South take some power and responsibility as well as equla status for nationalist flegs and kulture.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 11:20:21 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 10:44:22 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 09:55:20 AM
I really think if Sinn Fein and the SDLP have any self respect, or respect for nationalism and Irish Identity they need to pull the plug on Stormont. The DUP are being led not by Peter Robinson, but by the bigotted no surrender kilt wearing faction exemplified by wee Nelson. A faction that can't tell the difference between the Highland Gaelic tradition brought to Scotland by Gael's from Ireland and what passes for lowland Scot's culture. There is no such phrase as parity of esteem in their language and equality and human rights don't exist. Robinson's barely concealed sectarianism in is deriding of Allister for selling land to Republicans shows what is just below the surface. Added to that the economy minister instead of pointing out that violent protest is bringing Belfast business too it's knees says that the city shouldn't be a cold house for protesters and marchers...you couldn't make it up. There are ordinary decent unionists out there who want to see this place move forward and wouldn't mind equality but they have no voice and are afraid to put their heads above the parapet, just as ordinary decent nationalists couldn't be seen to criticise the IRA in the troubles. Joint Sovereignty is the only answer.

Odd that your idea of getting "respect for nationalism" is to hand more power to westminster.
Westminister has ulimate power here any way, I want to see the Government from the South take some power and responsibility as well as equla status for nationalist flegs and kulture.

I'd like all that myself alright. And maybe to win the lotto too; but as the late Brian Keenan once said, wish lists are for Christmas. Pulling out of stormont for good won't all of a sudden give Dublin power and responsibility for here and won't suddenly mean equality for Irish culture in the six counties, and it baffles me as to why you think otherwise!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 11:20:21 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 10:44:22 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 09:55:20 AM
I really think if Sinn Fein and the SDLP have any self respect, or respect for nationalism and Irish Identity they need to pull the plug on Stormont. The DUP are being led not by Peter Robinson, but by the bigotted no surrender kilt wearing faction exemplified by wee Nelson. A faction that can't tell the difference between the Highland Gaelic tradition brought to Scotland by Gael's from Ireland and what passes for lowland Scot's culture. There is no such phrase as parity of esteem in their language and equality and human rights don't exist. Robinson's barely concealed sectarianism in is deriding of Allister for selling land to Republicans shows what is just below the surface. Added to that the economy minister instead of pointing out that violent protest is bringing Belfast business too it's knees says that the city shouldn't be a cold house for protesters and marchers...you couldn't make it up. There are ordinary decent unionists out there who want to see this place move forward and wouldn't mind equality but they have no voice and are afraid to put their heads above the parapet, just as ordinary decent nationalists couldn't be seen to criticise the IRA in the troubles. Joint Sovereignty is the only answer.

Odd that your idea of getting "respect for nationalism" is to hand more power to westminster.
Westminister has ulimate power here any way, I want to see the Government from the South take some power and responsibility as well as equla status for nationalist flegs and kulture.

I'd like all that myself alright. And maybe to win the lotto too; but as the late Brian Keenan once said, wish lists are for Christmas. Pulling out of stormont for good won't all of a sudden give Dublin power and responsibility for here and won't suddenly mean equality for Irish culture in the six counties, and it baffles me as to why you think otherwise!!
What exactly has 10 or 12 years of Stormont given to Nationalists when it comes to real equality? Nothing if you listen to Peter and his poodle in the UUP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 11:39:28 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 11:20:21 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 10:44:22 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 09:55:20 AM
I really think if Sinn Fein and the SDLP have any self respect, or respect for nationalism and Irish Identity they need to pull the plug on Stormont. The DUP are being led not by Peter Robinson, but by the bigotted no surrender kilt wearing faction exemplified by wee Nelson. A faction that can't tell the difference between the Highland Gaelic tradition brought to Scotland by Gael's from Ireland and what passes for lowland Scot's culture. There is no such phrase as parity of esteem in their language and equality and human rights don't exist. Robinson's barely concealed sectarianism in is deriding of Allister for selling land to Republicans shows what is just below the surface. Added to that the economy minister instead of pointing out that violent protest is bringing Belfast business too it's knees says that the city shouldn't be a cold house for protesters and marchers...you couldn't make it up. There are ordinary decent unionists out there who want to see this place move forward and wouldn't mind equality but they have no voice and are afraid to put their heads above the parapet, just as ordinary decent nationalists couldn't be seen to criticise the IRA in the troubles. Joint Sovereignty is the only answer.

Odd that your idea of getting "respect for nationalism" is to hand more power to westminster.
Westminister has ulimate power here any way, I want to see the Government from the South take some power and responsibility as well as equla status for nationalist flegs and kulture.

I'd like all that myself alright. And maybe to win the lotto too; but as the late Brian Keenan once said, wish lists are for Christmas. Pulling out of stormont for good won't all of a sudden give Dublin power and responsibility for here and won't suddenly mean equality for Irish culture in the six counties, and it baffles me as to why you think otherwise!!
What exactly has 10 or 12 years of Stormont given to Nationalists when it comes to real equality? Nothing if you listen to Peter and his poodle in the UUP.
I'm not talking about what stormont has done or not done! You might not be happy with it but it doesn't mean you'll suddenly achieve some huge nationalist aspirations simply by opting out of it!! You are saying that if nationalists leave Stormont and hand more power back to Westminster, that suddenly Dublin will a ball of power and responsibility for the six counties and Irish culture in the six counties will receive equal treatment! I seem to be missing a step or two (or two hundred) somewhere in between and I'd love you to fill in the gaps!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 02:43:11 PM
So how exactly do you see SF and the SDLP moving things forward. They have even fallen into the BBC habit of failing to point out the log in PUL eyes when being asked about the mote in their own. For example Unionists harp on about Castlederg and no one challenges them about the many more marches by loyalists which not only celebrate the UVF/RHC/UDA etc but are designed to insult. The most obvious unspoken truth of them all is that the so called cultural expression of orangism is a celebration of various victories in sordid sectarian squabbles.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 02:43:11 PM
So how exactly do you see SF and the SDLP moving things forward. They have even fallen into the BBC habit of failing to point out the log in PUL eyes when being asked about the mote in their own. For example Unionists harp on about Castlederg and no one challenges them about the many more marches by loyalists which not only celebrate the UVF/RHC/UDA etc but are designed to insult. The most obvious unspoken truth of them all is that the so called cultural expression of orangism is a celebration of various victories in sordid sectarian squabbles.

I don't know how they move things forward, but you're the one has proposed a solution (pulling out of stormont). I'm asking you to explain what steps I'm missing from your solution, because so far all I can gather from your idea are a start and an end...

1. Nationalists pull out of stormont and give almost all power back to Westminster
2. ?????
3. Dublin gets "increased power and responsibility" and Irish culture in the north is treated with equality.

Please do explain how stage 1 above, leads to stage 3 in your head!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 03:59:50 PM
I was listening to the Nolan show as well yesterday and it was desperate stuff all right. Gregory at least spoke the truth when he said that they as a party will not give respect to SF. Gerry Kelly told of how they walk past them in the corridors at Stormont with their eyes to the ground and casn't look them straight in the face. When is the last time you seen a DUP politician on TV look a SF one in the eye? Do you ever see Peter Robinson glance round at Martin McGuinness during a press meeting? And these 2 men are flying around the world trying to promote this neck of the woods. What hope have we?

I called into the show and gave my view. Stormont needs to shut down. It is going backways, and the only legislation that has been passed in donkeys has been a tax on plastic bags !! They are all drawing a good salary, which was recently increased, hundreds more are employed in the background, and you just have to ask yourself what the hell are they doing? It seems the only thing they are good at is bickering like schoolkids. Cut them all lose, and while I accept London will have a more direct rule, sure they are only cutting out the middle man anyhow.

Before the last Stormont elections the parties promised us the sun moon and stars, and to date they have failed us. The only person kicking down doors and shaking things up is Jim Allister. He is running rings around them all, and there isn't anyone to match him. We could do with a nationalist version......

Without a doubt the vast majority of us want to live in peace and put sectarian nonsense behind us, but sadly the people in charge pander to the tiny minority.

Democracy eh?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 04:05:28 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 03:59:50 PM
The only person kicking down doors and shaking things up is Jim Allister. He is running rings around them all, and there isn't anyone to match him. We could do with a nationalist version......

Quote from: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 03:59:50 PM
Without a doubt the vast majority of us want to live in peace and put sectarian nonsense behind us

Wanting to get rid of sectarianism while praising Jim Allister (the finest political mind of the 17th century), and wishing there were more like him?





Hmmmmm ???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 04:16:13 PM
Nally, I have no problem praising Jim Allister for some of the work he has been doing. He is a bigger thorn in the side to the DUP than any nationalist. He has been exposing skullduggery in the ranks and his recent attack on them over the Red Sky dealings was bang on the money.

He has been obtaining freedom of information articles that expose them ever further.

Of course he is a bigot, but I can still give him credit where credit is due.

And as I said, I wouldn't mind seeing a nationalist version.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 04:16:13 PM
Nally, I have no problem praising Jim Allister for some of the work he has been doing. He is a bigger thorn in the side to the DUP than any nationalist. He has been exposing skullduggery in the ranks and his recent attack on them over the Red Sky dealings was bang on the money.

He has been obtaining freedom of information articles that expose them ever further.

Of course he is a bigot, but I can still give him credit where credit is due.

And as I said, I wouldn't mind seeing a nationalist version.

He appeals to the lowest common denominator at every opportunity and in doing so, is forcing the DUP to do likewise. Which is the very reason we now see DUP members taking part in illegal parades, posing with squatters at twaddell, joining illegal flag protests, condoning physical assaults on the SF mayor, parading behind Brian Robinson Flute Band, excusing Orage Order members rioting etc etc etc not to mention their continuing backtracking on executive commitments. He is single handedly forcing the largest unionist party into it's most hardline, sectarian position in quite a few years. It boggles the mind that you would like a nationalist equivalent and boggles it even more that you think such a thing would actually ease sectarianism!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 04:31:13 PM
Jim Allister is not driving the DUP down the cul de sac. It's the loyalist paramilitaries and the Orange Order.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 04:42:16 PM
Here is a good article that shows just what the DUP are made off when it comes to making a quick buck:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/blogs/liam-clarke/ian-paisley-jnrs-deep-interest-in-african-affairs-29611214.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 04:44:07 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on September 26, 2013, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 02:43:11 PM
So how exactly do you see SF and the SDLP moving things forward. They have even fallen into the BBC habit of failing to point out the log in PUL eyes when being asked about the mote in their own. For example Unionists harp on about Castlederg and no one challenges them about the many more marches by loyalists which not only celebrate the UVF/RHC/UDA etc but are designed to insult. The most obvious unspoken truth of them all is that the so called cultural expression of orangism is a celebration of various victories in sordid sectarian squabbles.

I don't know how they move things forward, but you're the one has proposed a solution (pulling out of stormont). I'm asking you to explain what steps I'm missing from your solution, because so far all I can gather from your idea are a start and an end...

1. Nationalists pull out of stormont and give almost all power back to Westminster
2. ?????
3. Dublin gets "increased power and responsibility" and Irish culture in the north is treated with equality.

Please do explain how stage 1 above, leads to stage 3 in your head!
Not 100 per cent sure how you'd get there but it couldn't be any worse than the current situation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 26, 2013, 07:48:15 PM
hold on.. what's all this Dublin stuff? enda Kenny's government have never even acknowledged the existence of the 6 counties except to yap about how we were harbouring guarda killers. I don't want that guy to be the boss of me!! maybe if sinn fein were in government in the 26 I could swallow it but given a choice between ff and fg i'd go for dup! that's how disgusting I find these guys
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 27, 2013, 09:20:40 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 26, 2013, 07:48:15 PM
hold on.. what's all this Dublin stuff? enda Kenny's government have never even acknowledged the existence of the 6 counties except to yap about how we were harbouring guarda killers. I don't want that guy to be the boss of me!! maybe if sinn fein were in government in the 26 I could swallow it but given a choice between ff and fg i'd go for dup! that's how disgusting I find these guys
So you are a Unionist?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on September 28, 2013, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 27, 2013, 09:20:40 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 26, 2013, 07:48:15 PM
hold on.. what's all this Dublin stuff? enda Kenny's government have never even acknowledged the existence of the 6 counties except to yap about how we were harbouring guarda killers. I don't want that guy to be the boss of me!! maybe if sinn fein were in government in the 26 I could swallow it but given a choice between ff and fg i'd go for dup! that's how disgusting I find these guys
So you are a Unionist?

Strictly comm Unionist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 29, 2013, 09:10:26 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 27, 2013, 09:20:40 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 26, 2013, 07:48:15 PM
hold on.. what's all this Dublin stuff? enda Kenny's government have never even acknowledged the existence of the 6 counties except to yap about how we were harbouring guarda killers. I don't want that guy to be the boss of me!! maybe if sinn fein were in government in the 26 I could swallow it but given a choice between ff and fg i'd go for dup! that's how disgusting I find these guys
So you are a Unionist?
no. i'm a democrat. we have a flawed administration here that's under attack by extremists. these are the same crowd who never wanted the peace process in the first instance. they have tried on ever occasion to undermine the good work that has gone on. handing over the little say we do have to Cameron or the gimp Kenny is handing 'camp twaddle' a victory for thuggery. the next place they'd be camped is the dial or outside croker or outside some catholic church.
the answer is to isolate these crowd and make it clear that democracy is the way forward. get their names, find out if theyre on the dole (most likely) ask them (nicely) to join back to work schemes if they don't - no benefits. when they riot spray them with dye anyone with dye on them-  arrest on sight- no benefits. these crowd are a tiny minority. ask any normal person in norn iron if they want to turn the clock back 20 years..
as regards my 'unionist' credentials I want a united ireland asap, but it needs to be a proper republic not the septic tank that people in the 26 have settled for where a wealthy elite bankrupts get to stay in homes that show their "status in society" and the ordinary guy is made homeless. the 26 needs some serious work before its ready to join the six. (as bad as we are) I think my view is typical of most parents as shown in recent opinion polls. chucky and all that..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 29, 2013, 10:23:01 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 29, 2013, 09:10:26 AM
the answer is to isolate these crowd and make it clear that democracy is the way forward. get their names, find out if theyre on the dole (most likely) ask them (nicely) to join back to work schemes if they don't - no benefits. when they riot spray them with dye anyone with dye on them-  arrest on sight- no benefits. these crowd are a tiny minority.
I think your political home is a lot further right than you realise. Maybe time for you to give UKIP or the Tories a call?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 29, 2013, 10:26:19 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2013, 10:23:01 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 29, 2013, 09:10:26 AM
the answer is to isolate these crowd and make it clear that democracy is the way forward. get their names, find out if theyre on the dole (most likely) ask them (nicely) to join back to work schemes if they don't - no benefits. when they riot spray them with dye anyone with dye on them-  arrest on sight- no benefits. these crowd are a tiny minority.
I think your political home is a lot further right than you realise. Maybe time for you to give UKIP or the Tories a call?
It is certainly not aligned with SF. They would be filling in their claim forms and organising a minibus or fleet of black taxis to transport them to the bru.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on September 29, 2013, 11:14:06 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2013, 10:23:01 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 29, 2013, 09:10:26 AM
the answer is to isolate these crowd and make it clear that democracy is the way forward. get their names, find out if they're on the dole (most likely) ask them (nicely) to join back to work schemes if they don't - no benefits. when they riot spray them with dye anyone with dye on them-  arrest on sight- no benefits. these crowd are a tiny minority.
I think your political home is a lot further right than you realise. Maybe time for you to give UKIP or the Tories a call?
maybe there is a crack in my tricolor tinted glassed
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 29, 2013, 10:26:19 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 29, 2013, 10:23:01 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 29, 2013, 09:10:26 AM
the answer is to isolate these crowd and make it clear that democracy is the way forward. get their names, find out if they're on the dole (most likely) ask them (nicely) to join back to work schemes if they don't - no benefits. when they riot spray them with dye anyone with dye on them-  arrest on sight- no benefits. these crowd are a tiny minority.
I think your political home is a lot further right than you realise. Maybe time for you to give UKIP or the Tories a call?
It is certainly not aligned with SF. They would be filling in their claim forms and organising a minibus or fleet of black taxis to transport them to the bru.
the gloves are off. I'm sick of the same same.. "tradition", "community" "culture" type speak that this crowd spout every time they need an excuse for their undemocratic unlawful behaviour. ffs they're tramping about the place with swords!!! swords!! what other jurisdiction would put up with this shite. name one place?? theres patience and there complacency! gather up a few hurlers with sticks and cut the shite out of them. if they were kids you'd drop their pants and redden their arses not subsidise them with taxpayers money. get a job
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on September 29, 2013, 12:17:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 04:16:13 PM
Nally, I have no problem praising Jim Allister for some of the work he has been doing. He is a bigger thorn in the side to the DUP than any nationalist. He has been exposing skullduggery in the ranks and his recent attack on them over the Red Sky dealings was bang on the money.

He has been obtaining freedom of information articles that expose them ever further.

Of course he is a bigot, but I can still give him credit where credit is due.

And as I said, I wouldn't mind seeing a nationalist version.
Allister was also the only one really laying into Nelson McCausland over his totally spurious claims about the Housing Executive overpaying contractors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24283632
It defies belief that the cretinous McCausland can get away with this and keep his job. I notice from that BBC report that he tries to put the blame on the Chairman of the Housing Executive. That would be the same chairman that McCausland handpicked and recruited from a housing association in England then. Wenker!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on September 29, 2013, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on September 29, 2013, 12:17:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 04:16:13 PM
Nally, I have no problem praising Jim Allister for some of the work he has been doing. He is a bigger thorn in the side to the DUP than any nationalist. He has been exposing skullduggery in the ranks and his recent attack on them over the Red Sky dealings was bang on the money.

He has been obtaining freedom of information articles that expose them ever further.

Of course he is a bigot, but I can still give him credit where credit is due.

And as I said, I wouldn't mind seeing a nationalist version.
Allister was also the only one really laying into Nelson McCausland over his totally spurious claims about the Housing Executive overpaying contractors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24283632
It defies belief that the cretinous McCausland can get away with this and keep his job. I notice from that BBC report that he tries to put the blame on the Chairman of the Housing Executive. That would be the same chairman that McCausland handpicked and recruited from a housing association in England then. Wenker!

And despite all the evidence against him, Maskey or SF wouldn't call for his resignation. Pathetic leadership
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on September 29, 2013, 06:08:32 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 29, 2013, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on September 29, 2013, 12:17:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 26, 2013, 04:16:13 PM
Nally, I have no problem praising Jim Allister for some of the work he has been doing. He is a bigger thorn in the side to the DUP than any nationalist. He has been exposing skullduggery in the ranks and his recent attack on them over the Red Sky dealings was bang on the money.

He has been obtaining freedom of information articles that expose them ever further.

Of course he is a bigot, but I can still give him credit where credit is due.

And as I said, I wouldn't mind seeing a nationalist version.
Allister was also the only one really laying into Nelson McCausland over his totally spurious claims about the Housing Executive overpaying contractors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24283632
It defies belief that the cretinous McCausland can get away with this and keep his job. I notice from that BBC report that he tries to put the blame on the Chairman of the Housing Executive. That would be the same chairman that McCausland handpicked and recruited from a housing association in England then. Wenker!

And despite all the evidence against him, Maskey or SF wouldn't call for his resignation. Pathetic leadership

They are as culpable in this regard themselves, Gildernew cost the taxpayer in excess of 60million.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15631617 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15631617)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on October 01, 2013, 11:04:46 AM
Bump (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23823.msg1284680#msg1284680)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 12:07:57 PM
Stormont is a sick joke....jobs for the boys...that's all it is....nice we carve up.....in the full knowledge that people will continue to vote along tribal lines come election time.

Peter Robinson's rant the other day was like something out of Fawlty Towers....but the really sad part is that no one from the Nationalist side challenged him.....now imagine if David Cameron stood up in the house of commons and berated Milliband for selling land to "niggers".....outcry...you can bet your life on it.....but in this cesspit we call home don't rock the boat >:(

That's why my electoral papers helped light the fire
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on October 01, 2013, 12:35:56 PM
Quote from: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 12:07:57 PM
Stormont is a sick joke....jobs for the boys...that's all it is....nice we carve up.....in the full knowledge that people will continue to vote along tribal lines come election time... That's why my electoral papers helped light the fire
Seems to me that your problem isn't so much stormont, as it is those who vote. The power sharing arrangements at stormont are what the vast majority of people in Ireland voted for in 1998 and those sitting in it under those terms are those who were voted in to do so. It ain't perfect but that's how it goes. As far as I'm concerned therefor, if you don't vote, you lose the right to complain.

Quote from: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 12:07:57 PM
Peter Robinson's rant the other day was like something out of Fawlty Towers....but the really sad part is that no one from the Nationalist side challenged him.....now imagine if David Cameron stood up in the house of commons and berated Milliband for selling land to "niggers".....outcry...you can bet your life on it.....but in this cesspit we call home don't rock the boat >:(

"During Question Time today Peter Robinson, in response to Jim Allister, rounded on the TUV MLA asking him to explain how  "secretly, and outside of the House, the Member, as the executor of a will, is selling land to republicans in County Fermanagh to benefit his own family." I don't know if these allegations are true or not but such comments were wholly unacceptable for the First Minster to make. This is an office that is designed to represent everyone. However the tone of Peter Robinsons remarks are essentially a signal that it is not OK to sell land to Catholics. Peter Robinson needs to explain his comments. If this is the focus of Unionists to score points over one another it is clearly espousing a sectarian agenda." Sean Lynch MLA
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 01, 2013, 12:35:56 PM
Quote from: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 12:07:57 PM
Stormont is a sick joke....jobs for the boys...that's all it is....nice we carve up.....in the full knowledge that people will continue to vote along tribal lines come election time... That's why my electoral papers helped light the fire
Seems to me that your problem isn't so much stormont, as it is those who vote. The power sharing arrangements at stormont are what the vast majority of people in Ireland voted for in 1998 and those sitting in it under those terms are those who were voted in to do so. It ain't perfect but that's how it goes. As far as I'm concerned therefor, if you don't vote, you lose the right to complain.

Quote from: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 12:07:57 PM
Peter Robinson's rant the other day was like something out of Fawlty Towers....but the really sad part is that no one from the Nationalist side challenged him.....now imagine if David Cameron stood up in the house of commons and berated Milliband for selling land to "niggers".....outcry...you can bet your life on it.....but in this cesspit we call home don't rock the boat >:(

"During Question Time today Peter Robinson, in response to Jim Allister, rounded on the TUV MLA asking him to explain how  "secretly, and outside of the House, the Member, as the executor of a will, is selling land to republicans in County Fermanagh to benefit his own family." I don't know if these allegations are true or not but such comments were wholly unacceptable for the First Minster to make. This is an office that is designed to represent everyone. However the tone of Peter Robinsons remarks are essentially a signal that it is not OK to sell land to Catholics. Peter Robinson needs to explain his comments. If this is the focus of Unionists to score points over one another it is clearly espousing a sectarian agenda." Sean Lynch MLA

Glad someone is challenging Robinson over his comments. Where did he say this? Was it at Stormont...if not then why not?
No point in being an elected representative if you are not going to challenge these dinosaurs at Stormont.
Unfortunately there is no real alternative when it comes to voting....I live in hope that someone somewhere is going to stand for real issues that affect everyday life....jobs, health, education etc.........I believe Stormont has passed just one piece of legislation since it was re-formed....very important ....plastic bag levy!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on October 01, 2013, 02:40:09 PM
Quote from: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 01, 2013, 12:35:56 PM
Quote from: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 12:07:57 PM
Stormont is a sick joke....jobs for the boys...that's all it is....nice we carve up.....in the full knowledge that people will continue to vote along tribal lines come election time... That's why my electoral papers helped light the fire
Seems to me that your problem isn't so much stormont, as it is those who vote. The power sharing arrangements at stormont are what the vast majority of people in Ireland voted for in 1998 and those sitting in it under those terms are those who were voted in to do so. It ain't perfect but that's how it goes. As far as I'm concerned therefor, if you don't vote, you lose the right to complain.

Quote from: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 12:07:57 PM
Peter Robinson's rant the other day was like something out of Fawlty Towers....but the really sad part is that no one from the Nationalist side challenged him.....now imagine if David Cameron stood up in the house of commons and berated Milliband for selling land to "niggers".....outcry...you can bet your life on it.....but in this cesspit we call home don't rock the boat >:(

"During Question Time today Peter Robinson, in response to Jim Allister, rounded on the TUV MLA asking him to explain how  "secretly, and outside of the House, the Member, as the executor of a will, is selling land to republicans in County Fermanagh to benefit his own family." I don't know if these allegations are true or not but such comments were wholly unacceptable for the First Minster to make. This is an office that is designed to represent everyone. However the tone of Peter Robinsons remarks are essentially a signal that it is not OK to sell land to Catholics. Peter Robinson needs to explain his comments. If this is the focus of Unionists to score points over one another it is clearly espousing a sectarian agenda." Sean Lynch MLA

Glad someone is challenging Robinson over his comments. Where did he say this? Was it at Stormont...if not then why not?
No point in being an elected representative if you are not going to challenge these dinosaurs at Stormont.
Unfortunately there is no real alternative when it comes to voting....I live in hope that someone somewhere is going to stand for real issues that affect everyday life....jobs, health, education etc.........I believe Stormont has passed just one piece of legislation since it was re-formed....very important ....plastic bag levy!

Give them some credit. They also awarded themselves a pay rise......

Well, just the 2 main parties that is....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 01, 2013, 07:03:43 PM
Quote from: Count 10 on October 01, 2013, 01:57:31 PM
I believe Stormont has passed just one piece of legislation since it was re-formed....very important ....plastic bag levy!
And if i'm not mistaken, a lot of the work on that was started in the previous term. There was also the SPAD bill.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on October 11, 2013, 02:13:08 PM
Who said the Shinners were in the same bed as the Royals........................................



McGuinness slept in Queen's bed at Hillsborough Castle2 hours ago

Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness raised a few laughs - and perhaps just as many eyebrows - when he revealed he had slept in the Queen's bed at Hillsborough Castle.

Mr McGuinness, a former IRA leader, told the story during an after dinner speech at the 18th century castle, the Queen's official residence in Northern Ireland.

Hillsborough was used during hot-house political talks in 2010 over the transfer of policing powers to Stormont from Westminster.

Mr McGuinness told 150 delegates attending a gala opening of the international business conference that Sinn Féin was assigned the Queen's bedroom during days of negotiations with the Government.

"We were lucky enough that we were allocated the Queen's bedroom," he said, causing an outbreak of chuckling among the audience.

"I do not want you to tell anybody ... "

Cue more laughter.

"But I had a snooze in her bed," smiled Mr McGuinness, before adding: "She was not in it, so no scandal attached."

With the TV cameras focused on Mr McGuinness, the reaction of some of those in the room, including First Minister Peter Robinson and Secretary of State Theresa Villiers, is not recorded.

It is also unclear if one was not amused at Buckingham Palace ...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on October 11, 2013, 04:55:15 PM
So that makes two people who haven't shared a bed at Hillsborough with the Queen. Martin and Prince Phillip?

Re the earlier posts accusing Robinson of sectarianism, now I'm no fan of the DUP or its leader, but surely Robinson never berated Allister for selling Land to catholic/nationalists or intended to do so, but was merely pointing out Allister's hypcorisy in lambasting the DUP for doing business with republicans while he was selling land privately to them?

I tell you I'd far rather have the DUP any day of the week than that little bigoted runt Allister and his TUV neanderthals.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on October 11, 2013, 05:47:58 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 11, 2013, 04:55:15 PM
So that makes two people who haven't shared a bed at Hillsborough with the Queen. Martin and Prince Phillip?

Re the earlier posts accusing Robinson of sectarianism, now I'm no fan of the DUP or its leader, but surely Robinson never berated Allister for selling Land to catholic/nationalists or intended to do so, but was merely pointing out Allister's hypcorisy in lambasting the DUP for doing business with republicans while he was selling land privately to them?

I tell you I'd far rather have the DUP any day of the week than that little bigoted runt Allister and his TUV neanderthals.

Have you any evidence Tony that Jim sold land to "rebublicans", or are you taking Peter's word for it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on October 12, 2013, 12:37:38 AM
Well he or his family did sell the farm to taigs,which knowing the bigoted little runt (I remember him from thirty years ago as a skinny bigoted little runt in the DUP) was a move I wouldn't have expected him to make,to be honest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on October 12, 2013, 01:16:57 AM
Still looking for one of those fridge magnets, Nally.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 01:31:43 PM
Great injustice in Lurgan man’s continued imprisonment - McCann

Sinn Féin MLA Jennifer McCann said the continued imprisonment of Martin Corey is an affront to his human rights and natural justice.

The West Belfast MLA was speaking after she along with party colleague Rosie McCorely met with British Secretary of State Teresa Villiers concerning the Lurgan man’s continued imprisonment....

Jennifer McCann said:

“Martin Corey is now in prison for three and a half years without having been charged, questioned or his legal representatives shown the alleged evidence that is against him.

“His latest parole hearing has been postponed yet again. Martin Corey has had no parole hearing since 2011. His continued imprisonment is unacceptable and an affront to his human rights and natural justice.

“I will be meeting with Justice Minister David Ford in the coming weeks to press him to bring this injustice to an end. The British Secretary of State was of no help whatsoever and attempted to wash her hands of the case.

“If there is evidence to show that Martin Corey is a risk to the public it should be put before him and his legal team so that it can be challenged. Natural justice is being denied to this man and it needs to end.”
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 03:52:15 PM
Glad to see they have their priorities right, running after dissidents while the executive crumbles and the DUP expose them as fools.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on October 16, 2013, 04:21:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 03:52:15 PM
Glad to see they have their priorities right, running after dissidents while the executive crumbles and the DUP expose them as fools.

So they should ignore internment without trial? Oh wait, you don't see it as internment without trial, you call it...what was it again...."illegal detention"?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
Still waiting on you to explain the difference there.

While I wait on the difference to be explained to me, and we go by your makey-uppy term of "illegal detention", could you tell me what is the problem with an elected representative coming out against a citizen being detailed illegally? Is it that you condone the state acting illegally or is it that you don't believe elected representatives should be allowed to challenge illegal behaviour by the state?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 04:48:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 16, 2013, 04:21:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 03:52:15 PM
Glad to see they have their priorities right, running after dissidents while the executive crumbles and the DUP expose them as fools.

So they should ignore internment without trial? Oh wait, you don't see it as internment without trial, you call it...what was it again...."illegal detention"?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
Still waiting on you to explain the difference there.

While I wait on the difference to be explained to me, and we go by your makey-uppy term of "illegal detention", could you tell me what is the problem with an elected representative coming out against a citizen being detailed illegally? Is it that you condone the state acting illegally or is it that you don't believe elected representatives should be allowed to challenge illegal behaviour by the state?
Not really my fault if you don't understand or agree with my position. I disagree with yours as is my right. It will also be my right as a voter to ignore elections until the Shinners and the Stoops get their act together. When push comes to shove all shades of unionism/loyalism pull together...what do we do? as the saying goes the first item on every nationalist agenda is the split.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on October 16, 2013, 04:53:13 PM
Very good but this time could you read my questions first and then reply?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 04:48:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 16, 2013, 04:21:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 03:52:15 PM
Glad to see they have their priorities right, running after dissidents while the executive crumbles and the DUP expose them as fools.

So they should ignore internment without trial? Oh wait, you don't see it as internment without trial, you call it...what was it again...."illegal detention"?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
Still waiting on you to explain the difference there.

While I wait on the difference to be explained to me, and we go by your makey-uppy term of "illegal detention", could you tell me what is the problem with an elected representative coming out against a citizen being detailed illegally? Is it that you condone the state acting illegally or is it that you don't believe elected representatives should be allowed to challenge illegal behaviour by the state?
Not really my fault if you don't understand or agree with my position. I disagree with yours as is my right. It will also be my right as a voter to ignore elections until the Shinners and the Stoops get their act together. When push comes to shove all shades of unionism/loyalism pull together...what do we do? as the saying goes the first item on every nationalist agenda is the split.
[/quot
;D[/email] How ironic from the man who crys continually about the two parties differences and then says he will not vote.Every post you either complain about the Shinners or the Stoops,ffs away and join the Alliance party and give all our heads peace.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on October 16, 2013, 06:53:14 PM
I don't know how to post pictures here, but this past few weeks in particular, Mary Lou McDonald is an awful funny colour.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on October 16, 2013, 08:39:34 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on October 16, 2013, 06:53:14 PM
I don't know how to post pictures here, but this past few weeks in particular, Mary Lou McDonald is an awful funny colour.
orange..?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 16, 2013, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 04:48:16 PM
When push comes to shove all shades of unionism/loyalism pull together...what do we do?
Yes, and look at the state of unionism/loyalism. You really think that's a template for nationalism?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 09:41:44 PM
Remembering Sheena Campbell
On 16 October 1992, a young mother was shot dead in the York Hotel on Botanic Avenue in Belfast.

The killing was carried out by a lone UVF assassin, who had strolled casually into the hotel bar, his face covered by a scarf, a hat pulled low over his eyes. He looked around the room before calmly walking over to a table where three young people were sitting talking, unaware of his approach.

He produced an automatic machine pistol and fired it at 29-year-old Sheena Campbell, striking her several times in the chest and throat.

Sheena fell to the ground, mortally wounded. The gunman fired a final shot into her head before turning his attention to the two friends who had been sitting with her, injuring both, though not seriously. He then made good his escape, disappearing into a waiting blue Ford Fiesta, later found abandoned in the unionist Sandy Row area.

It was a calculated and precise act. Sheena Campbell was dead only a month before her 30th birthday.

Sheena was not shot simply because she was a Catholic - although that might have been reason enough for those who sent the trigger man that day. Nor was she shot by chance, a twist of fate having placed her in the 'wrong place at the wrong time'.

The reality was that Sheena Campbell was a formidable opponent, a determined Sinn Féin activist of unsurpassed skill and tenacity, and a woman who consistently managed to do the impossible. The people responsible for her death didn't just want to kill someone. They wanted to kill Sheena Campbell. And it is very unlikely that the UVF acted without the assistance of state forces.

Two years earlier, in November of 1990, Sinn Féin had found itself in the midst of a crucial by-election in the Torrent ward of Dungannon, County Tyrone. The poll had been called after former Sinn Féin Councillor and IRA Volunteer Martin McCaughey was debarred from Dungannon District Council for non-attendance of meetings. McCaughey was shot dead by the SAS a short time later in a shoot-to-kill stakeout.

The SDLP already held two seats in the district, unionists held a third, and all were desperate to thwart the return of a Sinn Féin candidate. The SDLP even canvassed unionist voters for second preferences in an attempt to "keep Sinn Féin out".

Against this backdrop of concentrated abuse by political opponents and lethal intimidation by state forces, it was decided that Francie Molloy should be the person to contest the seat on behalf of Sinn Féin. The monumental task might have seemed laughable had Sheena Campbell not been put in charge.

"Martin McCaughey had just been murdered by the SAS," recalls Molloy, "and people were feeling very low. There was a real air of depression. The campaign was moving very slowly and I was asked what I thought might help. I said, 'Give me someone like Sheena Campbell'.

"So they did. Sheena came in and took charge. She not only provided good management, her presence also freed me up so I could actively campaign myself."

In organising Molloy's campaign, Sheena restructured Sinn Féin's entire approach towards elections and election canvassing.

Before long, she had everyone working together professionally, in a methodical and systematic approach. She planned everybody's timetable in detail, helping workers to record their findings and complete their tasks effectively by breaking the work down into small, manageable batches. This enabled people to remain focused without feeling overwhelmed by the size of their assignments and to foster friendly competition between election workers, with each striving to account for their batch of ballots.

More importantly, it also allowed Sinn Féin to target, fight, and account for each and every available vote.

"She made people feel a part of things," says Molloy. "She brought them along with her and although she led by example, she always saw herself as one of the group. She was a constant inspiration."

Sheena's plan later became known as the Torrent strategy, and it changed the way Sinn Féin approached election work forever. The system is still in use today, a lasting legacy of Sheena's insight, commitment and discipline.

The Torrent by-election was a close and hard-fought contest. When the results were finally returned, Francie Molloy emerged victorious by only six votes.

"It was incredible," says Molloy, "and everybody could claim those six votes. If someone had managed to get a family who didn't usually vote out to the polling station, or if another had registered a few new voters, they could honestly say that their efforts had made the difference. That was what Sheena Campbell could inspire. I was glad we had done it. We had proved the new system worked and that the people of Tyrone would still return a Sinn Féin vote after Martin's death."

Sheena's own death, in the lounge of the York Hotel just a few years later, came just as she was beginning her legal studies at the Law faculty of Queen's University.

She was the first student from Newry to be accepted into the faculty and had even been told by the Career Guidance people at the university that she "hadn't a hope" of being accepted. But as usual, she had beaten the odds.

The teaching staff at Queen's described her as "a brilliant student, with tremendous academic ability" but Sheena was not interested in financial gain as a result of her studies. She believed that law was meant to benefit humanity.

"She encouraged and pushed without seeming to do so," says her partner Brendan Curran, "and was always there when needed. She could jump up on a chair at the sight of a mouse and then go out and take on a Land Rover full of RUC who were harassing someone she didn't even know. Her greatest strength was her love of life and people."

Last year, in a commemorative booklet marking the tenth anniversary of her killing, Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams noted that Sheena Campbell remains deeply missed by all who had the privilege of knowing her.

"Sheena was cheerful, positive and outgoing," wrote Adams. "She was very articulate in promoting republican politics, and she was very effective. It was she who turned our electoral theory into practice.

"I have no doubt that, had she not been killed on that dark day in the autumn of 1992, she would have been one of the prominent leaders of our party. Her contribution to our struggle was immense. She was an activist's activist.

"She was young. She was a woman. She had skills and an abundance of talent. She was the future. That is why she was killed. They feared Sheena because they fear the future."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on October 16, 2013, 10:03:35 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 09:41:44 PM
Remembering Sheena Campbell
On 16 October 1992, a young mother was shot dead in the York Hotel on Botanic Avenue in Belfast.

The killing was carried out by a lone UVF assassin, who had strolled casually into the hotel bar, his face covered by a scarf, a hat pulled low over his eyes. He looked around the room before calmly walking over to a table where three young people were sitting talking, unaware of his approach.

He produced an automatic machine pistol and fired it at 29-year-old Sheena Campbell, striking her several times in the chest and throat.

Sheena fell to the ground, mortally wounded. The gunman fired a final shot into her head before turning his attention to the two friends who had been sitting with her, injuring both, though not seriously. He then made good his escape, disappearing into a waiting blue Ford Fiesta, later found abandoned in the unionist Sandy Row area.

It was a calculated and precise act. Sheena Campbell was dead only a month before her 30th birthday.

Sheena was not shot simply because she was a Catholic - although that might have been reason enough for those who sent the trigger man that day. Nor was she shot by chance, a twist of fate having placed her in the 'wrong place at the wrong time'.

The reality was that Sheena Campbell was a formidable opponent, a determined Sinn Féin activist of unsurpassed skill and tenacity, and a woman who consistently managed to do the impossible. The people responsible for her death didn't just want to kill someone. They wanted to kill Sheena Campbell. And it is very unlikely that the UVF acted without the assistance of state forces.

Two years earlier, in November of 1990, Sinn Féin had found itself in the midst of a crucial by-election in the Torrent ward of Dungannon, County Tyrone. The poll had been called after former Sinn Féin Councillor and IRA Volunteer Martin McCaughey was debarred from Dungannon District Council for non-attendance of meetings. McCaughey was shot dead by the SAS a short time later in a shoot-to-kill stakeout.

The SDLP already held two seats in the district, unionists held a third, and all were desperate to thwart the return of a Sinn Féin candidate. The SDLP even canvassed unionist voters for second preferences in an attempt to "keep Sinn Féin out".

Against this backdrop of concentrated abuse by political opponents and lethal intimidation by state forces, it was decided that Francie Molloy should be the person to contest the seat on behalf of Sinn Féin. The monumental task might have seemed laughable had Sheena Campbell not been put in charge.

"Martin McCaughey had just been murdered by the SAS," recalls Molloy, "and people were feeling very low. There was a real air of depression. The campaign was moving very slowly and I was asked what I thought might help. I said, 'Give me someone like Sheena Campbell'.

"So they did. Sheena came in and took charge. She not only provided good management, her presence also freed me up so I could actively campaign myself."

In organising Molloy's campaign, Sheena restructured Sinn Féin's entire approach towards elections and election canvassing.

Before long, she had everyone working together professionally, in a methodical and systematic approach. She planned everybody's timetable in detail, helping workers to record their findings and complete their tasks effectively by breaking the work down into small, manageable batches. This enabled people to remain focused without feeling overwhelmed by the size of their assignments and to foster friendly competition between election workers, with each striving to account for their batch of ballots.

More importantly, it also allowed Sinn Féin to target, fight, and account for each and every available vote.

"She made people feel a part of things," says Molloy. "She brought them along with her and although she led by example, she always saw herself as one of the group. She was a constant inspiration."

Sheena's plan later became known as the Torrent strategy, and it changed the way Sinn Féin approached election work forever. The system is still in use today, a lasting legacy of Sheena's insight, commitment and discipline.

The Torrent by-election was a close and hard-fought contest. When the results were finally returned, Francie Molloy emerged victorious by only six votes.

"It was incredible," says Molloy, "and everybody could claim those six votes. If someone had managed to get a family who didn't usually vote out to the polling station, or if another had registered a few new voters, they could honestly say that their efforts had made the difference. That was what Sheena Campbell could inspire. I was glad we had done it. We had proved the new system worked and that the people of Tyrone would still return a Sinn Féin vote after Martin's death."

Sheena's own death, in the lounge of the York Hotel just a few years later, came just as she was beginning her legal studies at the Law faculty of Queen's University.

She was the first student from Newry to be accepted into the faculty and had even been told by the Career Guidance people at the university that she "hadn't a hope" of being accepted. But as usual, she had beaten the odds.

The teaching staff at Queen's described her as "a brilliant student, with tremendous academic ability" but Sheena was not interested in financial gain as a result of her studies. She believed that law was meant to benefit humanity.

"She encouraged and pushed without seeming to do so," says her partner Brendan Curran, "and was always there when needed. She could jump up on a chair at the sight of a mouse and then go out and take on a Land Rover full of RUC who were harassing someone she didn't even know. Her greatest strength was her love of life and people."

Last year, in a commemorative booklet marking the tenth anniversary of her killing, Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams noted that Sheena Campbell remains deeply missed by all who had the privilege of knowing her.

"Sheena was cheerful, positive and outgoing," wrote Adams. "She was very articulate in promoting republican politics, and she was very effective. It was she who turned our electoral theory into practice.

"I have no doubt that, had she not been killed on that dark day in the autumn of 1992, she would have been one of the prominent leaders of our party. Her contribution to our struggle was immense. She was an activist's activist.

"She was young. She was a woman. She had skills and an abundance of talent. She was the future. That is why she was killed. They feared Sheena because they fear the future."
Hard to believe that was 21 years ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 16, 2013, 10:09:16 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 16, 2013, 10:03:35 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 09:41:44 PM
Remembering Sheena Campbell
On 16 October 1992, a young mother was shot dead in the York Hotel on Botanic Avenue in Belfast.

The killing was carried out by a lone UVF assassin, who had strolled casually into the hotel bar, his face covered by a scarf, a hat pulled low over his eyes. He looked around the room before calmly walking over to a table where three young people were sitting talking, unaware of his approach.

He produced an automatic machine pistol and fired it at 29-year-old Sheena Campbell, striking her several times in the chest and throat.

Sheena fell to the ground, mortally wounded. The gunman fired a final shot into her head before turning his attention to the two friends who had been sitting with her, injuring both, though not seriously. He then made good his escape, disappearing into a waiting blue Ford Fiesta, later found abandoned in the unionist Sandy Row area.

It was a calculated and precise act. Sheena Campbell was dead only a month before her 30th birthday.

Sheena was not shot simply because she was a Catholic - although that might have been reason enough for those who sent the trigger man that day. Nor was she shot by chance, a twist of fate having placed her in the 'wrong place at the wrong time'.

The reality was that Sheena Campbell was a formidable opponent, a determined Sinn Féin activist of unsurpassed skill and tenacity, and a woman who consistently managed to do the impossible. The people responsible for her death didn't just want to kill someone. They wanted to kill Sheena Campbell. And it is very unlikely that the UVF acted without the assistance of state forces.

Two years earlier, in November of 1990, Sinn Féin had found itself in the midst of a crucial by-election in the Torrent ward of Dungannon, County Tyrone. The poll had been called after former Sinn Féin Councillor and IRA Volunteer Martin McCaughey was debarred from Dungannon District Council for non-attendance of meetings. McCaughey was shot dead by the SAS a short time later in a shoot-to-kill stakeout.

The SDLP already held two seats in the district, unionists held a third, and all were desperate to thwart the return of a Sinn Féin candidate. The SDLP even canvassed unionist voters for second preferences in an attempt to "keep Sinn Féin out".

Against this backdrop of concentrated abuse by political opponents and lethal intimidation by state forces, it was decided that Francie Molloy should be the person to contest the seat on behalf of Sinn Féin. The monumental task might have seemed laughable had Sheena Campbell not been put in charge.

"Martin McCaughey had just been murdered by the SAS," recalls Molloy, "and people were feeling very low. There was a real air of depression. The campaign was moving very slowly and I was asked what I thought might help. I said, 'Give me someone like Sheena Campbell'.

"So they did. Sheena came in and took charge. She not only provided good management, her presence also freed me up so I could actively campaign myself."

In organising Molloy's campaign, Sheena restructured Sinn Féin's entire approach towards elections and election canvassing.

Before long, she had everyone working together professionally, in a methodical and systematic approach. She planned everybody's timetable in detail, helping workers to record their findings and complete their tasks effectively by breaking the work down into small, manageable batches. This enabled people to remain focused without feeling overwhelmed by the size of their assignments and to foster friendly competition between election workers, with each striving to account for their batch of ballots.

More importantly, it also allowed Sinn Féin to target, fight, and account for each and every available vote.

"She made people feel a part of things," says Molloy. "She brought them along with her and although she led by example, she always saw herself as one of the group. She was a constant inspiration."

Sheena's plan later became known as the Torrent strategy, and it changed the way Sinn Féin approached election work forever. The system is still in use today, a lasting legacy of Sheena's insight, commitment and discipline.

The Torrent by-election was a close and hard-fought contest. When the results were finally returned, Francie Molloy emerged victorious by only six votes.

"It was incredible," says Molloy, "and everybody could claim those six votes. If someone had managed to get a family who didn't usually vote out to the polling station, or if another had registered a few new voters, they could honestly say that their efforts had made the difference. That was what Sheena Campbell could inspire. I was glad we had done it. We had proved the new system worked and that the people of Tyrone would still return a Sinn Féin vote after Martin's death."

Sheena's own death, in the lounge of the York Hotel just a few years later, came just as she was beginning her legal studies at the Law faculty of Queen's University.

She was the first student from Newry to be accepted into the faculty and had even been told by the Career Guidance people at the university that she "hadn't a hope" of being accepted. But as usual, she had beaten the odds.

The teaching staff at Queen's described her as "a brilliant student, with tremendous academic ability" but Sheena was not interested in financial gain as a result of her studies. She believed that law was meant to benefit humanity.

"She encouraged and pushed without seeming to do so," says her partner Brendan Curran, "and was always there when needed. She could jump up on a chair at the sight of a mouse and then go out and take on a Land Rover full of RUC who were harassing someone she didn't even know. Her greatest strength was her love of life and people."

Last year, in a commemorative booklet marking the tenth anniversary of her killing, Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams noted that Sheena Campbell remains deeply missed by all who had the privilege of knowing her.

"Sheena was cheerful, positive and outgoing," wrote Adams. "She was very articulate in promoting republican politics, and she was very effective. It was she who turned our electoral theory into practice.

"I have no doubt that, had she not been killed on that dark day in the autumn of 1992, she would have been one of the prominent leaders of our party. Her contribution to our struggle was immense. She was an activist's activist.

"She was young. She was a woman. She had skills and an abundance of talent. She was the future. That is why she was killed. They feared Sheena because they fear the future."
Hard to believe that was 21 years ago.
Very hard for some, apparently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 10:21:01 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 16, 2013, 10:03:35 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 09:41:44 PM
Remembering Sheena Campbell
On 16 October 1992, a young mother was shot dead in the York Hotel on Botanic Avenue in Belfast.

The killing was carried out by a lone UVF assassin, who had strolled casually into the hotel bar, his face covered by a scarf, a hat pulled low over his eyes. He looked around the room before calmly walking over to a table where three young people were sitting talking, unaware of his approach.

He produced an automatic machine pistol and fired it at 29-year-old Sheena Campbell, striking her several times in the chest and throat.

Sheena fell to the ground, mortally wounded. The gunman fired a final shot into her head before turning his attention to the two friends who had been sitting with her, injuring both, though not seriously. He then made good his escape, disappearing into a waiting blue Ford Fiesta, later found abandoned in the unionist Sandy Row area.

It was a calculated and precise act. Sheena Campbell was dead only a month before her 30th birthday.

Sheena was not shot simply because she was a Catholic - although that might have been reason enough for those who sent the trigger man that day. Nor was she shot by chance, a twist of fate having placed her in the 'wrong place at the wrong time'.

The reality was that Sheena Campbell was a formidable opponent, a determined Sinn Féin activist of unsurpassed skill and tenacity, and a woman who consistently managed to do the impossible. The people responsible for her death didn't just want to kill someone. They wanted to kill Sheena Campbell. And it is very unlikely that the UVF acted without the assistance of state forces.

Two years earlier, in November of 1990, Sinn Féin had found itself in the midst of a crucial by-election in the Torrent ward of Dungannon, County Tyrone. The poll had been called after former Sinn Féin Councillor and IRA Volunteer Martin McCaughey was debarred from Dungannon District Council for non-attendance of meetings. McCaughey was shot dead by the SAS a short time later in a shoot-to-kill stakeout.

The SDLP already held two seats in the district, unionists held a third, and all were desperate to thwart the return of a Sinn Féin candidate. The SDLP even canvassed unionist voters for second preferences in an attempt to "keep Sinn Féin out".

Against this backdrop of concentrated abuse by political opponents and lethal intimidation by state forces, it was decided that Francie Molloy should be the person to contest the seat on behalf of Sinn Féin. The monumental task might have seemed laughable had Sheena Campbell not been put in charge.

"Martin McCaughey had just been murdered by the SAS," recalls Molloy, "and people were feeling very low. There was a real air of depression. The campaign was moving very slowly and I was asked what I thought might help. I said, 'Give me someone like Sheena Campbell'.

"So they did. Sheena came in and took charge. She not only provided good management, her presence also freed me up so I could actively campaign myself."

In organising Molloy's campaign, Sheena restructured Sinn Féin's entire approach towards elections and election canvassing.

Before long, she had everyone working together professionally, in a methodical and systematic approach. She planned everybody's timetable in detail, helping workers to record their findings and complete their tasks effectively by breaking the work down into small, manageable batches. This enabled people to remain focused without feeling overwhelmed by the size of their assignments and to foster friendly competition between election workers, with each striving to account for their batch of ballots.

More importantly, it also allowed Sinn Féin to target, fight, and account for each and every available vote.

"She made people feel a part of things," says Molloy. "She brought them along with her and although she led by example, she always saw herself as one of the group. She was a constant inspiration."

Sheena's plan later became known as the Torrent strategy, and it changed the way Sinn Féin approached election work forever. The system is still in use today, a lasting legacy of Sheena's insight, commitment and discipline.

The Torrent by-election was a close and hard-fought contest. When the results were finally returned, Francie Molloy emerged victorious by only six votes.

"It was incredible," says Molloy, "and everybody could claim those six votes. If someone had managed to get a family who didn't usually vote out to the polling station, or if another had registered a few new voters, they could honestly say that their efforts had made the difference. That was what Sheena Campbell could inspire. I was glad we had done it. We had proved the new system worked and that the people of Tyrone would still return a Sinn Féin vote after Martin's death."

Sheena's own death, in the lounge of the York Hotel just a few years later, came just as she was beginning her legal studies at the Law faculty of Queen's University.

She was the first student from Newry to be accepted into the faculty and had even been told by the Career Guidance people at the university that she "hadn't a hope" of being accepted. But as usual, she had beaten the odds.

The teaching staff at Queen's described her as "a brilliant student, with tremendous academic ability" but Sheena was not interested in financial gain as a result of her studies. She believed that law was meant to benefit humanity.

"She encouraged and pushed without seeming to do so," says her partner Brendan Curran, "and was always there when needed. She could jump up on a chair at the sight of a mouse and then go out and take on a Land Rover full of RUC who were harassing someone she didn't even know. Her greatest strength was her love of life and people."

Last year, in a commemorative booklet marking the tenth anniversary of her killing, Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams noted that Sheena Campbell remains deeply missed by all who had the privilege of knowing her.

"Sheena was cheerful, positive and outgoing," wrote Adams. "She was very articulate in promoting republican politics, and she was very effective. It was she who turned our electoral theory into practice.

"I have no doubt that, had she not been killed on that dark day in the autumn of 1992, she would have been one of the prominent leaders of our party. Her contribution to our struggle was immense. She was an activist's activist.

"She was young. She was a woman. She had skills and an abundance of talent. She was the future. That is why she was killed. They feared Sheena because they fear the future."
Hard to believe that was 21 years ago.

Yes is indeed Leo,a vigal  by young Republicans was held tonight at Queens.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Leo on October 16, 2013, 10:23:51 PM
Hard to stomach a Sinn Fein TD in the Dail today accusing the government of condeming young Irish people to exile (because of the reduced rate of dole money for school leavers). The only group I know actively engaaged in exileing young people from their homes and communities in recent years were - ehm - the Provos. Double speak hasn't gone away you know ( as Gerry, with very personal experience, might say)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 10:31:57 PM
Quote from: Leo on October 16, 2013, 10:23:51 PM
Hard to stomach a Sinn Fein TD in the Dail today accusing the government of condeming young Irish people to exile (because of the reduced rate of dole money for school leavers). The only group I know actively engaaged in exileing young people from their homes and communities in recent years were - ehm - the Provos. Double speak hasn't gone away you know ( as Gerry, with very personal experience, might say)

You need to wake up and smell the coffee then,as the Provos haven't existed or a long time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on October 16, 2013, 10:36:51 PM
I never realised Sheena Campbell was from Newry, thought she was from Craigavon.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on October 16, 2013, 10:39:24 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on October 16, 2013, 10:36:51 PM
I never realised Sheena Campbell was from Newry, thought she was from Craigavon.
She stood for election there a couple of years before she was murdered.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 16, 2013, 10:45:19 PM
Adams under pressure over knowledge of abuse by his brother - The Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/adams-under-pressure-over-knowlege-of-abuse-by-his-brother-1.1560761

Over his long career Gerry Adams, with his paramilitary (which he denies) and political past, has ended up in corners without any discernible escape route. Yet he has always managed to dodge his enemies and emerge with his political position secure.
But the terrible experience of Áine Adams seems different; this case is about a woman, his niece, now aged 40 who was raped between the ages of four and nine by his brother, Liam Adams.
How this story unfolds will keep returning to Adams's day in court on April 22nd this year and the evidence he gave under cross-examination to Liam Adams's lawyer Eilis McDermott, QC.
In the first trial in April McDermott accused the Sinn Féin president of acting to save his "political skin" rather than in the interests of his niece.

This, crucially, is in relation to when and why he went to the police in 2009 to tell the PSNI of an admission he said his brother Liam made to him nine years earlier in Dundalk of sexually abusing Áine Adams.
"This is above politics. Saving my political skin is no consideration in these matters," replied the Sinn Féin leader. It is an issue now.

Earlier this month the jury in the second trial convicted Liam Adams of raping and sexually abusing Áine Adams from when she was aged four until she was nine, beginning in 1977.
Now other juries are deliberating on what this will or should mean for the political future of Gerry Adams: there's the public jury; the Sinn Féin membership and leadership jury; what Adams believes in some cases is a media "witch-hunt" jury; there are the juries comprised of his political opponents North and South; there are the separate inquiries currently taking place by the North's Attorney General and Police Ombudsman.

It emerged during both the collapsed and completed trials that as far back as 1987 Adams was aware of the abuse allegation against his brother – an allegation Liam Adams denied that same year when confronted by the Sinn Féin leader. That case never proceeded because Áine Adams retracted her evidence to the RUC.
But most particularly, as Adams said in the first trial (he wasn't called to give evidence in the second trial), it was in 2000 during a long walk in the rain in Dundalk that his brother admitted the abuse to him, saying it only happened on one occasion.

When in 2006 Áine Adams reactivated her 1987 allegation Gerry Adams went to the police in 2007 to give a statement - but did not tell them about the 2000 admission by his brother. As McDermott said it took another "two years and four months" before he did tell the PSNI about that admission.
McDermott put it to him that the reason he gave the 2009 statement was because he already knew that UTV's Insight programme was about to run a programme about the abuse. "You needed to make the statement at that stage because you wanted to do your best to avoid allegations that you had withheld information about child sexual abuse?"

It was this evidence that prompted her "saving [your] political skin" charge.
In earlier evidence she also accused him of lying when in 2009 he said that after 1987 Liam Adams was "out of my life more or less for the next 15 years".

She then showed Adams photographs of him and Liam Adams together at family and political events in 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998 and 2003. She also raised with him how Liam Adams was able to work in youth clubs in west Belfast and Dundalk in Co Louth – the former and current constituencies of Mr Adams – even in the period after the 2000 admission.

It was also stated during the trials that in 1986 when Sally Adams was raising her family as a single mother that Gerry Adams referred the family to social services, complaining of hygiene problems and lice in the children's hair.

All of this has led to claims that Adams acted in a calculated self-interested fashion to avoid charges of withholding information about child sexual abuse and to save his "political skin"


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Leo on October 16, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 10:31:57 PM
Quote from: Leo on October 16, 2013, 10:23:51 PM
Hard to stomach a Sinn Fein TD in the Dail today accusing the government of condeming young Irish people to exile (because of the reduced rate of dole money for school leavers). The only group I know actively engaaged in exileing young people from their homes and communities in recent years were - ehm - the Provos. Double speak hasn't gone away you know ( as Gerry, with very personal experience, might say)

You need to wake up and smell the coffee then,as the Provos haven't existed or a long time.

Maybe they havent existed for a time in the Glens, but in Newry the cordite is still stronger than the coffee. In any case, you chose to throw a diversion and not deal with the issue - classic Provo SF tactic. Thanks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Leo on October 16, 2013, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 16, 2013, 10:45:19 PM
Adams under pressure over knowledge of abuse by his brother - The Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/adams-under-pressure-over-knowlege-of-abuse-by-his-brother-1.1560761

Over his long career Gerry Adams, with his paramilitary (which he denies) and political past, has ended up in corners without any discernible escape route. Yet he has always managed to dodge his enemies and emerge with his political position secure.
But the terrible experience of Áine Adams seems different; this case is about a woman, his niece, now aged 40 who was raped between the ages of four and nine by his brother, Liam Adams.
How this story unfolds will keep returning to Adams's day in court on April 22nd this year and the evidence he gave under cross-examination to Liam Adams's lawyer Eilis McDermott, QC.
In the first trial in April McDermott accused the Sinn Féin president of acting to save his "political skin" rather than in the interests of his niece.

This, crucially, is in relation to when and why he went to the police in 2009 to tell the PSNI of an admission he said his brother Liam made to him nine years earlier in Dundalk of sexually abusing Áine Adams.
"This is above politics. Saving my political skin is no consideration in these matters," replied the Sinn Féin leader. It is an issue now.

Earlier this month the jury in the second trial convicted Liam Adams of raping and sexually abusing Áine Adams from when she was aged four until she was nine, beginning in 1977.
Now other juries are deliberating on what this will or should mean for the political future of Gerry Adams: there's the public jury; the Sinn Féin membership and leadership jury; what Adams believes in some cases is a media "witch-hunt" jury; there are the juries comprised of his political opponents North and South; there are the separate inquiries currently taking place by the North's Attorney General and Police Ombudsman.

It emerged during both the collapsed and completed trials that as far back as 1987 Adams was aware of the abuse allegation against his brother – an allegation Liam Adams denied that same year when confronted by the Sinn Féin leader. That case never proceeded because Áine Adams retracted her evidence to the RUC.
But most particularly, as Adams said in the first trial (he wasn't called to give evidence in the second trial), it was in 2000 during a long walk in the rain in Dundalk that his brother admitted the abuse to him, saying it only happened on one occasion.

When in 2006 Áine Adams reactivated her 1987 allegation Gerry Adams went to the police in 2007 to give a statement - but did not tell them about the 2000 admission by his brother. As McDermott said it took another "two years and four months" before he did tell the PSNI about that admission.
McDermott put it to him that the reason he gave the 2009 statement was because he already knew that UTV's Insight programme was about to run a programme about the abuse. "You needed to make the statement at that stage because you wanted to do your best to avoid allegations that you had withheld information about child sexual abuse?"

It was this evidence that prompted her "saving [your] political skin" charge.
In earlier evidence she also accused him of lying when in 2009 he said that after 1987 Liam Adams was "out of my life more or less for the next 15 years".

She then showed Adams photographs of him and Liam Adams together at family and political events in 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998 and 2003. She also raised with him how Liam Adams was able to work in youth clubs in west Belfast and Dundalk in Co Louth – the former and current constituencies of Mr Adams – even in the period after the 2000 admission.

It was also stated during the trials that in 1986 when Sally Adams was raising her family as a single mother that Gerry Adams referred the family to social services, complaining of hygiene problems and lice in the children's hair.

All of this has led to claims that Adams acted in a calculated self-interested fashion to avoid charges of withholding information about child sexual abuse and to save his "political skin"

I read in the motoring press that Opel have launched a new mini car to rival the Fiat 500 in Europe. It's called the  - wait for it - Opel Adam. Now if it was the Opel Adams it would have a silencer installed with a nine year guarantee.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on October 16, 2013, 11:02:54 PM
Quote from: Leo on October 16, 2013, 10:23:51 PM
Hard to stomach a Sinn Fein TD in the Dail today accusing the government of condeming young Irish people to exile (because of the reduced rate of dole money for school leavers). The only group I know actively engaaged in exileing young people from their homes and communities in recent years were - ehm - the Provos. Double speak hasn't gone away you know ( as Gerry, with very personal experience, might say)

Go away and read a book.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on October 16, 2013, 11:52:50 PM


I read in the motoring press that Opel have launched a new mini car to rival the Fiat 500 in Europe. It's called the  - wait for it - Opel Adam. Now if it was the Opel Adams it would have a silencer installed with a nine year guarantee.
[/quote]

That should be in the ' corny one for Friday ' section. However, on reading it again leave it in the ' crap one of a Wednesday '.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on October 17, 2013, 11:57:38 AM
Quote from: grounded on October 16, 2013, 11:52:50 PM


I read in the motoring press that Opel have launched a new mini car to rival the Fiat 500 in Europe. It's called the  - wait for it - Opel Adam. Now if it was the Opel Adams it would have a silencer installed with a nine year guarantee.

That should be in the ' corny one for Friday ' section. However, on reading it again leave it in the ' crap one of a Wednesday '.
[/quote]
you mean Vauxhall? Vauxhall adam? I don think I'll be driving one any time soon
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on October 17, 2013, 12:05:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 17, 2013, 12:01:34 PM
Not while you've got your T-Rex.....
fresh out of t-rexes at the moment he got impaled when he tried to sneak up on me and Raquel welsh ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 17, 2013, 01:47:47 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 04:48:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 16, 2013, 04:21:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 03:52:15 PM
Glad to see they have their priorities right, running after dissidents while the executive crumbles and the DUP expose them as fools.

So they should ignore internment without trial? Oh wait, you don't see it as internment without trial, you call it...what was it again...."illegal detention"?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
Still waiting on you to explain the difference there.

While I wait on the difference to be explained to me, and we go by your makey-uppy term of "illegal detention", could you tell me what is the problem with an elected representative coming out against a citizen being detailed illegally? Is it that you condone the state acting illegally or is it that you don't believe elected representatives should be allowed to challenge illegal behaviour by the state?
Not really my fault if you don't understand or agree with my position. I disagree with yours as is my right. It will also be my right as a voter to ignore elections until the Shinners and the Stoops get their act together. When push comes to shove all shades of unionism/loyalism pull together...what do we do? as the saying goes the first item on every nationalist agenda is the split.
[/quot
;D[/email] How ironic from the man who crys continually about the two parties differences and then says he will not vote.Every post you either complain about the Shinners or the Stoops,ffs away and join the Alliance party and give all our heads peace.
might just do that, oh wait I'm not unionist...but I am a voter and need political parties to represent my view.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 17, 2013, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 17, 2013, 01:47:47 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 16, 2013, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 04:48:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 16, 2013, 04:21:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2013, 03:52:15 PM
Glad to see they have their priorities right, running after dissidents while the executive crumbles and the DUP expose them as fools.

So they should ignore internment without trial? Oh wait, you don't see it as internment without trial, you call it...what was it again...."illegal detention"?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 04, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
call it what you like it may be , and I say may be an illegal detention but internment it ain't.
Still waiting on you to explain the difference there.

While I wait on the difference to be explained to me, and we go by your makey-uppy term of "illegal detention", could you tell me what is the problem with an elected representative coming out against a citizen being detailed illegally? Is it that you condone the state acting illegally or is it that you don't believe elected representatives should be allowed to challenge illegal behaviour by the state?
Not really my fault if you don't understand or agree with my position. I disagree with yours as is my right. It will also be my right as a voter to ignore elections until the Shinners and the Stoops get their act together. When push comes to shove all shades of unionism/loyalism pull together...what do we do? as the saying goes the first item on every nationalist agenda is the split.
[/quot
;D[/email] How ironic from the man who crys continually about the two parties differences and then says he will not vote.Every post you either complain about the Shinners or the Stoops,ffs away and join the Alliance party and give all our heads peace.
might just do that, oh wait I'm not unionist...but I am a voter and need political parties to represent my view.

Then form one or join one and try and change what you say is wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on October 17, 2013, 09:09:32 PM
Sorry, where does it say that political parties need to represent any inidivdual's view? So they should all bend their manifestos and policies to suit your own personal aims?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 18, 2013, 06:59:42 PM
Quote from: stibhan on October 17, 2013, 09:09:32 PM
Sorry, where does it say that political parties need to represent any inidivdual's view? So they should all bend their manifestos and policies to suit your own personal aims?
oh here's me thinking we vote for party's that represent our views, shit that's where I've been going wrong, must vote DUP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on October 18, 2013, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 18, 2013, 06:59:42 PM
Quote from: stibhan on October 17, 2013, 09:09:32 PM
Sorry, where does it say that political parties need to represent any inidivdual's view? So they should all bend their manifestos and policies to suit your own personal aims?
oh here's me thinking we vote for party's that represent our views, shit that's where I've been going wrong, must vote DUP.

No, a party needs to represent the views of their constituents broadly rather than pander to one individual. If you are so disenchanted with what these political parties have to offer, feel free to vote for someone else.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 19, 2013, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: stibhan on October 18, 2013, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 18, 2013, 06:59:42 PM
Quote from: stibhan on October 17, 2013, 09:09:32 PM
Sorry, where does it say that political parties need to represent any inidivdual's view? So they should all bend their manifestos and policies to suit your own personal aims?
oh here's me thinking we vote for party's that represent our views, shit that's where I've been going wrong, must vote DUP.

No, a party needs to represent the views of their constituents broadly rather than pander to one individual. If you are so disenchanted with what these political parties have to offer, feel free to vote for someone else.
Have you not read what I wrote. I can't vote for either at the moment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 24, 2013, 08:42:09 PM
So, Mark H Durkan sinks the SF/DUP attempted power-grab on planning. The SDLP are fairly toothless on the Executive with one seat, but from time to time, they might still be able to pull the rug out from under the 'big two'.

Telling that the SF benches were almost empty in the chamber for this. Not really sold on the amendments they turned out in force to support? It was left to the DUP to be up in arms over the pulling of this legislation that (quoting from Slugger):
"would have handed absolute power to the DUP and Sinn Fein to:
set Enterprise Zones exactly where they wanted them (and reap the maximum political advantage);
wave through almost any economic project that took their (or their political backer's) fancy;
and defy the courts and by extension ordinary citizens any legal redress against OFMdFM decisions in this regard."
http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/10/23/planning-bill-or-how-ofmdfm-dropped-the-ball-on-their-end-of-the-downing-street-economic-pact/

So that indicates that as well as the Girdwood situation regarding North Belfast's social housing, SF's support for the amendments to the planning bill was also to support the DUP. Yet SF's prize for this support, presumably the MLK Peace Centre has been pulled by Robinson...

And then there's the so-called 'slush fund' - the Social Investment Fund. £80m for OFMdFM to dish out  to address 'social need' - presumably to whatever groups the DUP and SF deem fit. Yet they can't agree on how to dish it out (the blame here seems to lie with the DUP, as the official figures don't suit them - a bit like the North Belfast waiting list for housing). But not to worry, they've managed to spend £400k of it. On consultants.
http://www.thedetail.tv/issues/282/stormont-poverty-fund-deadlocked-over-cash-going-to-catholics-or-protestants/social-investment-fund-no-cash-for-the-poor-but-nearly-400000-to-consultants
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on October 26, 2013, 04:42:04 PM
With Gerry Adams now in the Dail, and Martin McGuinness off doing the cross community joint minister gig with Peter Robinson, is Gerry Kelly now effectively the leader of Sinn Fein in the North?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on November 12, 2013, 03:28:29 PM
Another one bites the dust.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24913802


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on November 12, 2013, 08:22:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 12, 2013, 03:28:29 PM
Another one bites the dust.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24913802
30 years is enough. New brush sweeps clean..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on November 12, 2013, 08:43:18 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 12, 2013, 08:22:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 12, 2013, 03:28:29 PM
Another one bites the dust.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24913802
30 years is enough. New brush sweeps clean..

Who's in control of this new brush though?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 23, 2013, 08:15:17 PM
Tomorrow's Sunday Business Post - RED C poll results

Fine Gael 29 (N/C)
Labour 12 (+3)
Fianna Fail 22 (-1)
Sinn Fein 15 (-2)
Others/loons 22"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 23, 2013, 08:33:47 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2013, 08:15:17 PM
Tomorrow's Sunday Business Post - RED C poll results

Fine Gael 29 (N/C)
Labour 12 (+3)
Fianna Fail 22 (-1)
Sinn Fein 15 (-2)
Others/loons 22"

Looks like Lawnweed's "dungout" may have to wait another decade  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on November 24, 2013, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 23, 2013, 08:33:47 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2013, 08:15:17 PM
Tomorrow's Sunday Business Post - RED C poll results

Fine Gael 29 (N/C)
Labour 12 (+3)
Fianna Fail 22 (-1)
Sinn Fein 15 (-2)
Others/loons 22"

loons and labour up I see says it all doesn't it  ::) you get the government you deserve


Looks like Lawnweed's "dungout" may have to wait another decade  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 24, 2013, 07:15:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 24, 2013, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 23, 2013, 08:33:47 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2013, 08:15:17 PM
Tomorrow's Sunday Business Post - RED C poll results

Fine Gael 29 (N/C)
Labour 12 (+3)
Fianna Fail 22 (-1)
Sinn Fein 15 (-2)
Others/loons 22"
Looks like Lawnweed's "dungout" may have to wait another decade  ;)
loons and labour up I see says it all doesn't it  ::) you get the government you deserve
Democracy can be such an inconvenience.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 26, 2013, 01:17:50 PM
Anybody watch 'Sinn Fein - who are they' on TV3 last night? Was it any good or was it going over old stuff we already know?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on November 26, 2013, 01:29:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 26, 2013, 01:17:50 PM
Anybody watch 'Sinn Fein - who are they' on TV3 last night? Was it any good or was it going over old stuff we already know?

I saw the first ten minutes and then recorded the rest.  Up until then it was mostly an interview with GA and going over the Disappeared and Were You In The IRA? territory.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on November 26, 2013, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 26, 2013, 01:17:50 PM
Anybody watch 'Sinn Fein - who are they' on TV3 last night? Was it any good or was it going over old stuff we already know?

Need you ask? And for even more of the same, BBC are doing a spotlight show on SF tonight too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sheamy on November 26, 2013, 03:29:55 PM
The BBC seem to be totally obsessed with Adams at the minute.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 26, 2013, 03:36:35 PM
They'll be getting a lot of flak for unmasking that guy "Winkie" Irvine or whatever he was called and will be tryign to even up the score to keep some people happy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 26, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
I can't make my mind up about Adams. On the one hand I recognise that he had to be on the inside to deliver the peace process. Credit also to him and McGuiness they were at it since 1972. His TV personality is grating though and I find it hard to take him seriously. I also can't fathom why he denies IRA membership, when quite clearly the Brits wouldn't have engaged with him in the '70's had he not been involved. I have some sympathy over the situation with the neice, however SF's attitude to Cardinal Brady was a little hypocritical.
I also think that SF have kind of lost their way and opened up the field to this whole NI identity thing. If they aren't careful the little Northern Irelanders in the SDLP will peg them back.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Count 10 on November 26, 2013, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
I can't make my mind up about Adams. On the one hand I recognise that he had to be on the inside to deliver the peace process. Credit also to him and McGuiness they were at it since 1972. His TV personality is grating though and I find it hard to take him seriously. I also can't fathom why he denies IRA membership, when quite clearly the Brits wouldn't have engaged with him in the '70's had he not been involved. I have some sympathy over the situation with the neice, however SF's attitude to Cardinal Brady was a little hypocritical.
I also think that SF have kind of lost their way and opened up the field to this whole NI identity thing. If they aren't careful the little Northern Irelanders in the SDLP will peg them back.

Like who....at the minute the SDLP couldn't peg washing on a line!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on November 26, 2013, 06:14:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
I can't make my mind up about Adams. On the one hand I recognise that he had to be on the inside to deliver the peace process. Credit also to him and McGuiness they were at it since 1972. His TV personality is grating though and I find it hard to take him seriously. I also can't fathom why he denies IRA membership, when quite clearly the Brits wouldn't have engaged with him in the '70's had he not been involved. I have some sympathy over the situation with the neice, however SF's attitude to Cardinal Brady was a little hypocritical.
I also think that SF have kind of lost their way and opened up the field to this whole NI identity thing. If they aren't careful the little Northern Irelanders in the SDLP will peg them back.

Keep saying it and thought by this time you would have grasped it,should everyone who was in the IRA walk into a police station admit it and risk being locked up.The only people who admit they were in the RA are those who have already served time for it,Touts like Sean O Callaghan,and drunks in a bar talking s###e.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on November 27, 2013, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: glens abu on November 26, 2013, 06:14:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
I can't make my mind up about Adams. On the one hand I recognise that he had to be on the inside to deliver the peace process. Credit also to him and McGuiness they were at it since 1972. His TV personality is grating though and I find it hard to take him seriously. I also can't fathom why he denies IRA membership, when quite clearly the Brits wouldn't have engaged with him in the '70's had he not been involved. I have some sympathy over the situation with the neice, however SF's attitude to Cardinal Brady was a little hypocritical.
I also think that SF have kind of lost their way and opened up the field to this whole NI identity thing. If they aren't careful the little Northern Irelanders in the SDLP will peg them back.

Keep saying it and thought by this time you would have grasped it,should everyone who was in the IRA walk into a police station admit it and risk being locked up.The only people who admit they were in the RA are those who have already served time for it,Touts like Sean O Callaghan,and drunks in a bar talking s###e.
Im sparticus..  Wait a few years it'll be like 1916 sure the half of dubin fought in the GPO
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2013, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 27, 2013, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: glens abu on November 26, 2013, 06:14:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
I can't make my mind up about Adams. On the one hand I recognise that he had to be on the inside to deliver the peace process. Credit also to him and McGuiness they were at it since 1972. His TV personality is grating though and I find it hard to take him seriously. I also can't fathom why he denies IRA membership, when quite clearly the Brits wouldn't have engaged with him in the '70's had he not been involved. I have some sympathy over the situation with the neice, however SF's attitude to Cardinal Brady was a little hypocritical.
I also think that SF have kind of lost their way and opened up the field to this whole NI identity thing. If they aren't careful the little Northern Irelanders in the SDLP will peg them back.

Keep saying it and thought by this time you would have grasped it,should everyone who was in the IRA walk into a police station admit it and risk being locked up.The only people who admit they were in the RA are those who have already served time for it,Touts like Sean O Callaghan,and drunks in a bar talking s###e.
Im sparticus..  Wait a few years it'll be like 1916 sure the half of dubin fought in the GPO

Indeed there will be all sorts of people claiming bragging rights, mandates and moral justification from 1916.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on November 28, 2013, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2013, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 27, 2013, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: glens abu on November 26, 2013, 06:14:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 26, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
I can't make my mind up about Adams. On the one hand I recognise that he had to be on the inside to deliver the peace process. Credit also to him and McGuiness they were at it since 1972. His TV personality is grating though and I find it hard to take him seriously. I also can't fathom why he denies IRA membership, when quite clearly the Brits wouldn't have engaged with him in the '70's had he not been involved. I have some sympathy over the situation with the neice, however SF's attitude to Cardinal Brady was a little hypocritical.
I also think that SF have kind of lost their way and opened up the field to this whole NI identity thing. If they aren't careful the little Northern Irelanders in the SDLP will peg them back.

Keep saying it and thought by this time you would have grasped it,should everyone who was in the IRA walk into a police station admit it and risk being locked up.The only people who admit they were in the RA are those who have already served time for it,Touts like Sean O Callaghan,and drunks in a bar talking s###e.
Im sparticus..  Wait a few years it'll be like 1916 sure the half of dubin fought in the GPO

Indeed there will be all sorts of people claiming bragging rights, mandates and moral justification from 1916.
indeed the good Friday agreement has had more 'involvies' than would fill croke park.. no matter who snuffs it they were key to the success of the gfa.  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 03:34:58 PM
Update on the saintliness of the Old IRA: Not only did they never kill innocents/disappear people/rob banks etc, but they also were very, very relieved when their attempts to kill british agents were unsuccessful, such was their saintliness. So former minister David Andrews left me to believe last night on TV3. After pontificating about the evil of the Provos, he talked with a proud glint in his eye, of how his father (who was also Ryan Tubs grandfather) went out with his IRA comrades to kill (and stressed that he meant 'kill', not 'murder'), a british agent at his home, but it turned out that the agent was not at home..... "much to my fathers relief" says David.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 03:34:58 PM
Update on the saintliness of the Old IRA: Not only did they never kill innocents/disappear people/rob banks etc, but they also were very, very relieved when their attempts to kill british agents were unsuccessful, such was their saintliness. So former minister David Andrews left me to believe last night on TV3. After pontificating about the evil of the Provos, he talked with a proud glint in his eye, of how his father (who was also Ryan Tubs grandfather) went out with his IRA comrades to kill (and stressed that he meant 'kill', not 'murder'), a british agent at his home, but it turned out that the agent was not at home..... "much to my fathers relief" says David.
don't tell me.. he fought in the gpo aswell ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 04:08:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 03:34:58 PM
Update on the saintliness of the Old IRA: Not only did they never kill innocents/disappear people/rob banks etc, but they also were very, very relieved when their attempts to kill british agents were unsuccessful, such was their saintliness. So former minister David Andrews left me to believe last night on TV3. After pontificating about the evil of the Provos, he talked with a proud glint in his eye, of how his father (who was also Ryan Tubs grandfather) went out with his IRA comrades to kill (and stressed that he meant 'kill', not 'murder'), a british agent at his home, but it turned out that the agent was not at home..... "much to my fathers relief" says David.
don't tell me.. he fought in the gpo aswell ::)

Don't know off hand. He probably didn't load his gun if he was there though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2013, 04:23:44 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 04:08:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 03:34:58 PM
Update on the saintliness of the Old IRA: Not only did they never kill innocents/disappear people/rob banks etc, but they also were very, very relieved when their attempts to kill british agents were unsuccessful, such was their saintliness. So former minister David Andrews left me to believe last night on TV3. After pontificating about the evil of the Provos, he talked with a proud glint in his eye, of how his father (who was also Ryan Tubs grandfather) went out with his IRA comrades to kill (and stressed that he meant 'kill', not 'murder'), a british agent at his home, but it turned out that the agent was not at home..... "much to my fathers relief" says David.
don't tell me.. he fought in the gpo aswell ::)

Don't know off hand. He probably didn't load his gun if he was there though.
I wonder did he ever keep any allegations of child abuse to himself?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 05:14:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2013, 04:23:44 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 04:08:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 03:34:58 PM
Update on the saintliness of the Old IRA: Not only did they never kill innocents/disappear people/rob banks etc, but they also were very, very relieved when their attempts to kill british agents were unsuccessful, such was their saintliness. So former minister David Andrews left me to believe last night on TV3. After pontificating about the evil of the Provos, he talked with a proud glint in his eye, of how his father (who was also Ryan Tubs grandfather) went out with his IRA comrades to kill (and stressed that he meant 'kill', not 'murder'), a british agent at his home, but it turned out that the agent was not at home..... "much to my fathers relief" says David.
don't tell me.. he fought in the gpo aswell ::)

Don't know off hand. He probably didn't load his gun if he was there though.
I wonder did he ever keep any allegations of chuild abuse to himself?
I wonder if you have any family problems you'd like to share proven or unproven
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 03, 2013, 05:19:51 PM
I wonder will the Shinners and the Stoops support this new fleg?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2013, 05:24:26 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 05:14:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2013, 04:23:44 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 04:08:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 03:34:58 PM
Update on the saintliness of the Old IRA: Not only did they never kill innocents/disappear people/rob banks etc, but they also were very, very relieved when their attempts to kill british agents were unsuccessful, such was their saintliness. So former minister David Andrews left me to believe last night on TV3. After pontificating about the evil of the Provos, he talked with a proud glint in his eye, of how his father (who was also Ryan Tubs grandfather) went out with his IRA comrades to kill (and stressed that he meant 'kill', not 'murder'), a british agent at his home, but it turned out that the agent was not at home..... "much to my fathers relief" says David.
don't tell me.. he fought in the gpo aswell ::)

Don't know off hand. He probably didn't load his gun if he was there though.
I wonder did he ever keep any allegations of chuild abuse to himself?
I wonder if you have any family problems you'd like to share proven or unproven
I'm not a holier than thou leader of anything.
If Cardinal Brady isn't fit to be leader of the Church..... a point vehemently made by many of a SF leaning on this board.... does the same apply all round or is it a case of  :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 05:25:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 03, 2013, 05:19:51 PM
I wonder will the Shinners and the Stoops support this new fleg?
tell us more apples
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 05:35:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2013, 05:24:26 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 05:14:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2013, 04:23:44 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 04:08:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 03, 2013, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 03, 2013, 03:34:58 PM
Update on the saintliness of the Old IRA: Not only did they never kill innocents/disappear people/rob banks etc, but they also were very, very relieved when their attempts to kill british agents were unsuccessful, such was their saintliness. So former minister David Andrews left me to believe last night on TV3. After pontificating about the evil of the Provos, he talked with a proud glint in his eye, of how his father (who was also Ryan Tubs grandfather) went out with his IRA comrades to kill (and stressed that he meant 'kill', not 'murder'), a british agent at his home, but it turned out that the agent was not at home..... "much to my fathers relief" says David.
don't tell me.. he fought in the gpo aswell ::)

Don't know off hand. He probably didn't load his gun if he was there though.
I wonder did he ever keep any allegations of chuild abuse to himself?
I wonder if you have any family problems you'd like to share proven or unproven
I'm not a holier than thou leader of anything.
If Cardinal Brady isn't fit to be leader of the Church..... a point vehemently made by many of a SF leaning on this board.... does the same apply all round or is it a case of  :-X :-X :-X
Neither was David Andrew's father, so your post was just a quick piece of subject changing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2013, 06:35:08 PM
No  - just sticking to a SF related theme on this Sinn Fein thread. ;)
Just as well you're not a member or supporter of that Party  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 05, 2013, 03:30:27 PM
heading to the launch of Gerry kellys new book should be a bit of craic 8)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 05, 2013, 07:42:39 PM
Aengus is down with the kids. Almost. (And if it was 2011.)

http://www.thejournal.ie/dail-amazeballs-aengus-o-snodaigh-1207968-Dec2013/

As the kids would probably say - #epicfail #facepalm
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 10, 2013, 08:22:24 AM
SF TD hints at party exit as anger with Adams grows

NIALL O'CONNOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT – 10 DECEMBER 2013

SINN FEIN looks set to lose one of its most promising TDs in what will prove to be a huge blow to under-fire leader Gerry Adams.

The Irish Independent can reveal that Meath West TD Peadar Toibin has told his supporters that he is likely to quit the party in the new year.

In a clear indication of his dissatisfaction with the Sinn Fein leader, Mr Toibin last night contradicted Mr Adams's shocking comments about the deaths of two RUC officers.

Mr Toibin rejected outright Mr Adams's claim that Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Superintendent Bob Buchanan displayed a "laissez faire" approach to their safety prior to their savage murder in 1989.

"I don't believe it's ever correct to say that two police officers were murdered because of their own actions. These men's deaths were not determined by their own actions but the actions of the IRA. The IRA is responsible for the murder of these two men, not the officers themselves," he told the Irish Independent.

Mr Toibin's rebuke came as sources in Meath West confirmed that he was preparing to leave the party. While he did not want to comment on the matter last night, well-placed sources said he had already held talks with members of other parties.

Mr Toibin, who is one of the Dail's youngest TDs, was suspended by Sinn Fein in July after voting against the contentious abortion measures.

Sinn Fein figures believed he would return in the new year; however, it has emerged that Mr Toibin has engaged in serious discussion with senior Fianna Fail figures about a potential move to Micheal Martin's party.

Sources in Meath West have said that Mr Toibin is likely to vote against Sinn Fein again in relation to two private members' bills on the issue of abortion.

"Peadar is prepared to vote in line with his conscience. That will mean he will defy the party again," said a well-placed source.

The news of Mr Toibin's expected defection will prove to be a major blow for Mr Adams, who is due to travel to South Africa tomorrow to attend memorial events for Nelson Mandela.

While Mr Adams has received the backing of some of his TDs, others, such as deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald and finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty, did not respond to a request for comment last night.

Dublin North West TD Dessie Ellis refused to support the use of the phrase "laissez faire" by Mr Adams, but said the two officers had been "lax" in relation to their security.

"I know the area and you don't get away with that, even the Brits themselves wouldn't travel like that," he said.

Padraig McLoughlin, Caoimhghin O Caolain, Brian Stanley, Jonathan O'Brien, Martin Ferris and Sean Crowe all said they supported their leader's remarks.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sf-td-hints-at-party-exit-as-anger-with-adams-grows-29823286.html



Peadar has denied the above on Twitter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 10:55:08 AM
Whether this report is correct or not, the silence from many within SF on this latest Adams gaffe speaks volumes. I think it is inevitable that if SF spokes-persons continue to make statements of this nature, which belong in the past, they will lose votes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 11:15:34 AM
Silence speaks volumes? It does indeed. Like your silence on this (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=20686.msg1302864#msg1302864) post.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on December 10, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 10:55:08 AM
Whether this report is correct or not, the silence from many within SF on this latest Adams gaffe speaks volumes. I think it is inevitable that if SF spokes-persons continue to make statements of this nature, which belong in the past, they will lose votes.

No silence at all from within SF,as party has come out in support of leader over this and other issues.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 11:15:34 AM
Silence speaks volumes? It does indeed. Like your silence on this (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=20686.msg1302864#msg1302864) post.
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families. And in my opinion Adams should have stayed silent on this his remarks were insensitive and unnecessary. The hypocrisy of blaming these unarmed officers for contributing to their own deaths whilst at the same time complaining about Loughgall and Gibraltar is also not lost. And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments. And lest I be ridiculed as an Stoop or worse let me state, I categorically applaud all that Gerry Adams has done to bring about peace, I accept that he had to do it from within and bring others with him. I also accept that he is often fair game for the media and unionists and partionists North and South, many times unfairly. I would also agree that he has delivered for SF at the polls. You will see from other posts that I have made that I understand the context of the troubles and all that took place. But that doesn't mean that I have to agree with everything that Gerry says or does. It doesn't mean that I can't hold a valid opinion on the rights and wrongs of his statements and the non response from other SF politicians. Even if they (SF MLA'S, MP's etc...) did flock to support him, in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 10, 2013, 02:16:30 PM
Sneeky little fianna fukrs! Trying to get peadar tobin to join just because he was suspended. Jeez what do they think we are...? Stoops?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed. But the storm hypocritical or otherwise was instigated by Adams and his ill judged remarks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2013, 03:23:34 PM
Aren't Sinn Féin blessed all the same to have such a staunch advocate as Nalleen to fight their corner....... and him not even a member of SF ( as he says himself)  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appaling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appaling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Waved a white handkerchief? Apparently so. Could the IRA keep prisoners or something? You do realise how such guerrilla armies have to operate? The IRA were not the state forces. The IRA were at war and shooting-to-kill was their whole point. The state, by their own proclamation, were not at war and so, their own stated standards dictated that they shouldn't have been carrying out 'shoot-to-kill' operations. And they could take prisoners. And again, if you believe Adam's comments were "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then is it fair to say you view the report which he was referencing as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appaling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Waved a white handkerchief? Apparently so. Could the IRA keep prisoners or something? You do realise how such guerrilla armies have to operate? The IRA were not the state forces. The IRA were at war and shooting-to-kill was their whole point. The state, by their own proclamation, were not at war and so, their own stated standards dictated that they shouldn't have been carrying out 'shoot-to-kill' operations. And they could take prisoners. And again, if you believe Adam's comments were "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then is it fair to say you view the report which he was referencing as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too then?
Nally I'll leave my comments as they are. As an uncritical supporter of SF you will never accept any wrong doing. But take it from me as a potential voter his comments are a concern.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appaling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Waved a white handkerchief? Apparently so. Could the IRA keep prisoners or something? You do realise how such guerrilla armies have to operate? The IRA were not the state forces. The IRA were at war and shooting-to-kill was their whole point. The state, by their own proclamation, were not at war and so, their own stated standards dictated that they shouldn't have been carrying out 'shoot-to-kill' operations. And they could take prisoners. And again, if you believe Adam's comments were "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then is it fair to say you view the report which he was referencing as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too then?
Nally I'll leave my comments as they are. As an uncritical supporter of SF you will never accept any wrong doing. But take it from me as a potential voter his comments are a concern.
You can leave them as they are all you want, I'm just wondering why it's not OK for Gerry Adams to mention the same thing the report mentions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on December 10, 2013, 04:48:54 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 10, 2013, 08:22:24 AM
SF TD hints at party exit as anger with Adams grows

NIALL O'CONNOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT – 10 DECEMBER 2013

SINN FEIN looks set to lose one of its most promising TDs in what will prove to be a huge blow to under-fire leader Gerry Adams.

The Irish Independent can reveal that Meath West TD Peadar Toibin has told his supporters that he is likely to quit the party in the new year.

In a clear indication of his dissatisfaction with the Sinn Fein leader, Mr Toibin last night contradicted Mr Adams's shocking comments about the deaths of two RUC officers.

Mr Toibin rejected outright Mr Adams's claim that Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Superintendent Bob Buchanan displayed a "laissez faire" approach to their safety prior to their savage murder in 1989.

"I don't believe it's ever correct to say that two police officers were murdered because of their own actions. These men's deaths were not determined by their own actions but the actions of the IRA. The IRA is responsible for the murder of these two men, not the officers themselves," he told the Irish Independent.

Mr Toibin's rebuke came as sources in Meath West confirmed that he was preparing to leave the party. While he did not want to comment on the matter last night, well-placed sources said he had already held talks with members of other parties.

Mr Toibin, who is one of the Dail's youngest TDs, was suspended by Sinn Fein in July after voting against the contentious abortion measures.

Sinn Fein figures believed he would return in the new year; however, it has emerged that Mr Toibin has engaged in serious discussion with senior Fianna Fail figures about a potential move to Micheal Martin's party.

Sources in Meath West have said that Mr Toibin is likely to vote against Sinn Fein again in relation to two private members' bills on the issue of abortion.

"Peadar is prepared to vote in line with his conscience. That will mean he will defy the party again," said a well-placed source.

The news of Mr Toibin's expected defection will prove to be a major blow for Mr Adams, who is due to travel to South Africa tomorrow to attend memorial events for Nelson Mandela.

While Mr Adams has received the backing of some of his TDs, others, such as deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald and finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty, did not respond to a request for comment last night.

Dublin North West TD Dessie Ellis refused to support the use of the phrase "laissez faire" by Mr Adams, but said the two officers had been "lax" in relation to their security.

"I know the area and you don't get away with that, even the Brits themselves wouldn't travel like that," he said.

Padraig McLoughlin, Caoimhghin O Caolain, Brian Stanley, Jonathan O'Brien, Martin Ferris and Sean Crowe all said they supported their leader's remarks.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sf-td-hints-at-party-exit-as-anger-with-adams-grows-29823286.html



Peadar has denied the above on Twitter.

Meath West TD Peadar Tóibín, who was suspended from Sinn Féin after he voted against the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill, has said he is not joining Fianna Fáil.

Speaking on RTÉ's News at One, he said he was quite shocked at reports that he planned to do so.

Mr Tóibín said that aside from his stance on the abortion issue, there was no other issue in Sinn Féin that he disagrees with.

He said there is no doubt that he wants to rejoin Sinn Féin and that his home is with the party.

Looks like you are a wee bit premature again with the Indo lies Maguire  :o :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on December 10, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I found it strange that no one else mentioned his opening comments, in the rush to hammer him. Mary Lou actually put it quite well
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on December 10, 2013, 05:13:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appaling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Waved a white handkerchief? Apparently so. Could the IRA keep prisoners or something? You do realise how such guerrilla armies have to operate? The IRA were not the state forces. The IRA were at war and shooting-to-kill was their whole point. The state, by their own proclamation, were not at war and so, their own stated standards dictated that they shouldn't have been carrying out 'shoot-to-kill' operations. And they could take prisoners. And again, if you believe Adam's comments were "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then is it fair to say you view the report which he was referencing as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too then?

That part of the IRA statements to Smithwicks can be accepted as facts but the other part of their testimony that they spied on the police couldn't as it did not fit with the narrative!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 10, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 10, 2013, 04:48:54 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 10, 2013, 08:22:24 AM
SF TD hints at party exit as anger with Adams grows

NIALL O'CONNOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT – 10 DECEMBER 2013

SINN FEIN looks set to lose one of its most promising TDs in what will prove to be a huge blow to under-fire leader Gerry Adams.

The Irish Independent can reveal that Meath West TD Peadar Toibin has told his supporters that he is likely to quit the party in the new year.

In a clear indication of his dissatisfaction with the Sinn Fein leader, Mr Toibin last night contradicted Mr Adams's shocking comments about the deaths of two RUC officers.

Mr Toibin rejected outright Mr Adams's claim that Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Superintendent Bob Buchanan displayed a "laissez faire" approach to their safety prior to their savage murder in 1989.

"I don't believe it's ever correct to say that two police officers were murdered because of their own actions. These men's deaths were not determined by their own actions but the actions of the IRA. The IRA is responsible for the murder of these two men, not the officers themselves," he told the Irish Independent.

Mr Toibin's rebuke came as sources in Meath West confirmed that he was preparing to leave the party. While he did not want to comment on the matter last night, well-placed sources said he had already held talks with members of other parties.

Mr Toibin, who is one of the Dail's youngest TDs, was suspended by Sinn Fein in July after voting against the contentious abortion measures.

Sinn Fein figures believed he would return in the new year; however, it has emerged that Mr Toibin has engaged in serious discussion with senior Fianna Fail figures about a potential move to Micheal Martin's party.

Sources in Meath West have said that Mr Toibin is likely to vote against Sinn Fein again in relation to two private members' bills on the issue of abortion.

"Peadar is prepared to vote in line with his conscience. That will mean he will defy the party again," said a well-placed source.

The news of Mr Toibin's expected defection will prove to be a major blow for Mr Adams, who is due to travel to South Africa tomorrow to attend memorial events for Nelson Mandela.

While Mr Adams has received the backing of some of his TDs, others, such as deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald and finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty, did not respond to a request for comment last night.

Dublin North West TD Dessie Ellis refused to support the use of the phrase "laissez faire" by Mr Adams, but said the two officers had been "lax" in relation to their security.

"I know the area and you don't get away with that, even the Brits themselves wouldn't travel like that," he said.

Padraig McLoughlin, Caoimhghin O Caolain, Brian Stanley, Jonathan O'Brien, Martin Ferris and Sean Crowe all said they supported their leader's remarks.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sf-td-hints-at-party-exit-as-anger-with-adams-grows-29823286.html



Peadar has denied the above on Twitter.

Meath West TD Peadar Tóibín, who was suspended from Sinn Féin after he voted against the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill, has said he is not joining Fianna Fáil.

Speaking on RTÉ's News at One, he said he was quite shocked at reports that he planned to do so.

Mr Tóibín said that aside from his stance on the abortion issue, there was no other issue in Sinn Féin that he disagrees with.

He said there is no doubt that he wants to rejoin Sinn Féin and that his home is with the party.

Looks like you are a wee bit premature again with the Indo lies Maguire  :o :o
Not premature at all - I posted the story that had been published and also noted that Peadar had denied it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on December 10, 2013, 09:00:27 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 10, 2013, 05:13:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appaling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Waved a white handkerchief? Apparently so. Could the IRA keep prisoners or something? You do realise how such guerrilla armies have to operate? The IRA were not the state forces. The IRA were at war and shooting-to-kill was their whole point. The state, by their own proclamation, were not at war and so, their own stated standards dictated that they shouldn't have been carrying out 'shoot-to-kill' operations. And they could take prisoners. And again, if you believe Adam's comments were "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then is it fair to say you view the report which he was referencing as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too then?

That part of the IRA statements to Smithwicks can be accepted as facts but the other part of their testimony that they spied on the police couldn't as it did not fit with the narrative!
Other parts of the IRA testimony do not stand up to close scrutiny. The idea that the plan to kill the two police officers only swung into action when they had been spotted going into Dundalk station is ludicrous. This article gives a useful timeline of events on that day:

http://www.thejournal.ie/smithwick-tribunal-timeline-1204775-Dec2013/

The idea that an operation involving so many people could be underway within 10 minutes defies common sense. The IRA lied to the tribunal in order to protect the identity of its informer or informers. That shouldn't surprise anyone. What does cause surprise is that the IRA was asked to give testimony in the first place, given that the organisation had a motive to lie, and given its track record of lying in the past when the truth was inconvenient.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2013, 09:24:29 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 10, 2013, 09:00:27 PM
. What does cause surprise is that the IRA was asked to give testimony in the first place, given that the organisation had a motive to lie, and given its track record of lying in the past when the truth was inconvenient.
Unlike the RUC, Gardai etc etc who of course always told the truth no matter how inconvenient  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on December 10, 2013, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 10, 2013, 09:24:29 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 10, 2013, 09:00:27 PM
. What does cause surprise is that the IRA was asked to give testimony in the first place, given that the organisation had a motive to lie, and given its track record of lying in the past when the truth was inconvenient.
Unlike the RUC, Gardai etc etc who of course always told the truth no matter how inconvenient  ::)
Fair point, but the difference is that state bodies are accountable and subject to scrutiny, so that the truth is likely to come out at some point, even if it takes many years for that to happen. We know the truth about what the British Army got up to on Bloody Sunday, we still don't really know what Martin McGuinness was doing that day. We know a good deal about the activities of state forces over the years, but we're still not allowed to know that Gerry Adams was in the Ra.  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appaling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Waved a white handkerchief? Apparently so. Could the IRA keep prisoners or something? You do realise how such guerrilla armies have to operate? The IRA were not the state forces. The IRA were at war and shooting-to-kill was their whole point. The state, by their own proclamation, were not at war and so, their own stated standards dictated that they shouldn't have been carrying out 'shoot-to-kill' operations. And they could take prisoners. And again, if you believe Adam's comments were "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then is it fair to say you view the report which he was referencing as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too then?
Nally I'll leave my comments as they are. As an uncritical supporter of SF you will never accept any wrong doing. But take it from me as a potential voter his comments are a concern.
You can leave them as they are all you want, I'm just wondering why it's not OK for Gerry Adams to mention the same thing the report mentions.
Nally read my comments in full don't just select the bits you don't like. Strip it back and what I am saying is simply that Adams has damaged SF by the timing and nature of his comments. I have addressed all the other stuff that surrounds them, such as the hypocrisy of unionists, Fg, FF etc... But the fact remains it could have been handled better.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 11, 2013, 10:25:40 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appaling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Waved a white handkerchief? Apparently so. Could the IRA keep prisoners or something? You do realise how such guerrilla armies have to operate? The IRA were not the state forces. The IRA were at war and shooting-to-kill was their whole point. The state, by their own proclamation, were not at war and so, their own stated standards dictated that they shouldn't have been carrying out 'shoot-to-kill' operations. And they could take prisoners. And again, if you believe Adam's comments were "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then is it fair to say you view the report which he was referencing as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too then?
Nally I'll leave my comments as they are. As an uncritical supporter of SF you will never accept any wrong doing. But take it from me as a potential voter his comments are a concern.
You can leave them as they are all you want, I'm just wondering why it's not OK for Gerry Adams to mention the same thing the report mentions.
Nally read my comments in full don't just select the bits you don't like. Strip it back and what I am saying is simply that Adams has damaged SF by the timing and nature of his comments. I have addressed all the other stuff that surrounds them, such as the hypocrisy of unionists, Fg, FF etc... But the fact remains it could have been handled better.
Yes but if he has damaged SF by his comments, and you regard his comments as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then I'm just wondering if you believe Smithwick's report is "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too for raising the exact same subject as Adams?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2013, 10:51:01 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 10, 2013, 09:46:54 PM
, but we're still not allowed to know that Gerry Adams was in the Ra.  :)
Sure he says he wasn't  ::) ( like nally says he isn't a member of SF :P)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 11, 2013, 11:41:33 AM
so that's what happened in loughgall.. they forgot to bring a white hanky
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on December 11, 2013, 01:05:29 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 11, 2013, 11:41:33 AM
so that's what happened in loughgall.. they forgot to bring a white hanky
What happened at loughgall was that a group of heavily armed men were ambushed by another group of heavily armed men. In the other incident, two unarmed men were ambushed by a group of heavily armed men. Spot the difference?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 11, 2013, 02:18:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 10, 2013, 09:00:27 PM

Other parts of the IRA testimony do not stand up to close scrutiny. The idea that the plan to kill the two police officers only swung into action when they had been spotted going into Dundalk station is ludicrous. This article gives a useful timeline of events on that day:

http://www.thejournal.ie/smithwick-tribunal-timeline-1204775-Dec2013/

The idea that an operation involving so many people could be underway within 10 minutes defies common sense. The IRA lied to the tribunal in order to protect the identity of its informer or informers. That shouldn't surprise anyone. What does cause surprise is that the IRA was asked to give testimony in the first place, given that the organisation had a motive to lie, and given its track record of lying in the past when the truth was inconvenient.
Without a doubt, it would be daft to think so.
I'm fairly sure that the IRA lied to the tribunal also.
I would agree that nobody should be surprised about this.
All of this is simple common sense.
All the mole, if he existed, had to do was tip off somebody that the pair were about to leave Dundalk.
The Provos had to already know that Buchanan and Breen would be leaving Dundalk to return home shortly and would be taking no security precautions of any sort. They didn't need a mole to tell them their targets were there.
If you go by what the Journal says, up to 70 people   had been involved in the preparation and planning of the ambush and yet the Gardai, RUC and the pair who were killed took no precautions of any sort.
As far back as 1987, the Gardai and RUC knew that the Provos were planning to kill RUC officers who liaised with their counterparts in the south. Buchanan was told the following year that his name was on the hitlist. But he continued travelling to Dundalk up to ten times a month in his own car.
It's not surprising that Smithwick commented on this lack of security measures, which made it easy for the IRA to carry out the fatal ambush.
But it was hypocritical for politicians and the media (in the republic anyway) to attack Gerry Adams for saying basically the same thing.
They should have enough reasons to have a go at Adams without this mock outrage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 11, 2013, 10:25:40 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Waved a white handkerchief? Apparently so. Could the IRA keep prisoners or something? You do realise how such guerrilla armies have to operate? The IRA were not the state forces. The IRA were at war and shooting-to-kill was their whole point. The state, by their own proclamation, were not at war and so, their own stated standards dictated that they shouldn't have been carrying out 'shoot-to-kill' operations. And they could take prisoners. And again, if you believe Adam's comments were "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then is it fair to say you view the report which he was referencing as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too then?
Nally I'll leave my comments as they are. As an uncritical supporter of SF you will never accept any wrong doing. But take it from me as a potential voter his comments are a concern.
You can leave them as they are all you want, I'm just wondering why it's not OK for Gerry Adams to mention the same thing the report mentions.
Nally read my comments in full don't just select the bits you don't like. Strip it back and what I am saying is simply that Adams has damaged SF by the timing and nature of his comments. I have addressed all the other stuff that surrounds them, such as the hypocrisy of unionists, Fg, FF etc... But the fact remains it could have been handled better.
Yes but if he has damaged SF by his comments, and you regard his comments as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then I'm just wondering if you believe Smithwick's report is "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too for raising the exact same subject as Adams?
I think all these enquiries and reports are unnecessarily picking at scabs that would be best left alone. You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan. There is a collective amnesia in this country regarding the rising, the Ulster Covenant and the abandonment of Northern Nationalists by the predecessors of Fine Gael and what became Fianna Fail. We were getting to the stage where the IRA campaign of the '70's, '80's and '90's was being sidelined except in the minds of people like Tom Elliott, Dodds and a few others. Adams comments have reopened this can of worms. No one is listening to the context, many in the south forgot about the north 50 years ago, many in the North from the nationalist side have embraced their NI/UK identity, to these people Adams has made SF unpalatable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on December 11, 2013, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 11, 2013, 10:25:40 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 10, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Sorry I didn't think I needed to repeat myself. But accepting that these men probably did contribute to the ease with which the IRA killed them is one thing. Coming out with the statements that Adams did is rubbing salt into the wounds of grieving families....in my opinion a vast number of voters not from the core SF constituency would still be appalled at the callousness of his remarks.
Again, you do realise that he was only repeating what was said in the report from witnesses from the RUC, the Gardaí and from the IRA. Was the report therefor callous, too? Or just Adams, for talking about what was contained in the report?

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
And I restate what I said at every opportunity that I am aware of SF have wisely not spoken on the controversy caused by his comments.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 10, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
the non response from other SF politicians...
What do you think Mary Lou was talking about here then?
"To be absolutely fair about it, Gerry frontloaded his comments with expressions of understanding and sympathy for a grieving family - he knows all about this, he knows about the situations that families such as theirs find themselves in.
"And in terms of the security issues about the men themselves, he was only reflecting some of what was contained in the report and to say that that RUC and the Garda Siochana had a duty of care to these officers is just a statement of fact."

And I assume you missed Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was on Vincent Browne, strongly defending Adams the same night for almost half an hour?
I have to say I missed those, all i heard was no one available. But fro your Mary Lou quote that appears to be softening and back tracking a some what from what he actually said...welcome non the less.

It's repeating what Adams said. Adams acknowledged the hurt of the RUC men's families too in the same speech. People like your good self only get outraged about what the media focus on though and ignore the content of his full speech. It's just funny that the outrage is over him raising a point which the report itself raises.
I can't say I am outraged just pointing out that in my opinion he would have been best not saying it. I have to say I have just been watching the Tonight show with Vincent Browne...hypocrisy of Browne and Flannigan not to mention the hysterical reference by the journalist to rape is typical of the revisionist nonsense. It ranks with the revisionist nonsense we hear from Unionists. That said these guys were unarmed.
For someone who wasn't outraged, you're happy to throw out terms like "appalling" and "callous" and other such Micheal Martin-type crap. And if he was best not saying it, then surely the fact that the same issue come up in the actual report should be of much more concern to you?
But here the bottom line is they were unarmed, one waved a white hanky. You miss my point...Adams could have made bland generalised comments but he chose to make what I am entitled to believe were unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling remarks. I accept the point of my comments was it is damaging to SF. It is damaging because most potential voters have no concept of the Northern troubles are what they were about, they don't even understand that 1916 was the same conflict only on an All Island scale. They won't understand the rank hypocrisy of Charlie Flannigan or Vincent Browne. Fair play to MacLochlainn for taking them on but Gerry fed him to the bears. I noticed also that he refused to say that killing these guys was a duty. Again I say it to me it was Shoot to Kill in reverse.
Waved a white handkerchief? Apparently so. Could the IRA keep prisoners or something? You do realise how such guerrilla armies have to operate? The IRA were not the state forces. The IRA were at war and shooting-to-kill was their whole point. The state, by their own proclamation, were not at war and so, their own stated standards dictated that they shouldn't have been carrying out 'shoot-to-kill' operations. And they could take prisoners. And again, if you believe Adam's comments were "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then is it fair to say you view the report which he was referencing as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too then?
Nally I'll leave my comments as they are. As an uncritical supporter of SF you will never accept any wrong doing. But take it from me as a potential voter his comments are a concern.
You can leave them as they are all you want, I'm just wondering why it's not OK for Gerry Adams to mention the same thing the report mentions.
Nally read my comments in full don't just select the bits you don't like. Strip it back and what I am saying is simply that Adams has damaged SF by the timing and nature of his comments. I have addressed all the other stuff that surrounds them, such as the hypocrisy of unionists, Fg, FF etc... But the fact remains it could have been handled better.
Yes but if he has damaged SF by his comments, and you regard his comments as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then I'm just wondering if you believe Smithwick's report is "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too for raising the exact same subject as Adams?
I think all these enquiries and reports are unnecessarily picking at scabs that would be best left alone. You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan. There is a collective amnesia in this country regarding the rising, the Ulster Covenant and the abandonment of Northern Nationalists by the predecessors of Fine Gael and what became Fianna Fail. We were getting to the stage where the IRA campaign of the '70's, '80's and '90's was being sidelined except in the minds of people like Tom Elliott, Dodds and a few others. Adams comments have reopened this can of worms. No one is listening to the context, many in the south forgot about the north 50 years ago, many in the North from the nationalist side have embraced their NI/UK identity, to these people Adams has made SF unpalatable.
You're avoiding a very simple and diret question though. Was the report also "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 04:43:38 PM
I don't think I avoided the question, all these tribunals in my view were unnecessary. I can't say it was callous as it was a legal report, hurtful most likley.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2013, 09:15:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 11, 2013, 10:25:40 AM
Yes but if he has damaged SF by his comments, and you regard his comments as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then I'm just wondering if you believe Smithwick's report is "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too for raising the exact same subject as Adams?
The report didn't major on that particular point. I don't even think there's a reference to it in the detailed conclusions. Therefore why Adams felt he had to draw attention to that point...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2013, 09:20:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.
What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 12, 2013, 01:01:15 PM
IRA watched the travels of these two cops on a few occasions and when they headed for dundalk again, the IRA hit them.
easy enough to do so on that alone the IRA were not lying.

it was a war, it was a dirty war - even though the british gov denied it was engaging in a war, the recent revelations to all that denied things like that ever happened proves that nationalist/republican/Irish/catholics in the 6 counties were truthfully saying that innocents were being targeted by colluding death squads made up of unionist/loyalist/security forces/british army.
why so if it wasnt a war!!!

that the two ruc men were killed is no surprise.they were targets , and while I know feck all about then, it would surprise me that they would be 'choir boys' given the antics and sectarian focus the ruc as a whole (as well as gleeful individuals) had on the aforementioned nationalist/republican/irish/catholics for the prev 40+ years.

its wrong to kill. its wrong to do most of the things that both sides did to each other from 1970 onwards - as it was for the unionist/loyalist/colluding security forces to the nationalist/republican/Irish/catholics for decades prior to that.

the unionist/loyalists were protecting 'their' patch. very OTT methods of sectarianism and the 6 county version of apartheid ( ;)  )

the N, R, C, I eventually retaliated and both sides indulged in that dirty war.

Adams spoke his mind. if someone else in sf said that, there would not have been as much of a furore.
that adams said it made it sound worse. said feck all really. people want to take offence.
loads of mock horror and indignation.

I personally think that sf would be better off without adams as leader. mary lou or caoimhin o'c prob most likely leaders next- though Pearse the best man they have. Where has murphy from newry gone ? dont hear of him much these days.

all these people died , but their deaths were not in vain as the 6 counties is a far better, more equal place these days.
sad that this was the cost. but that is what it took. it wasnt coming otherwise.
I know this is unpalatable, and I wish it was avoidable.
but look at the picture before 1970 and the picture after 2010.

Title: Re: Sinn Féin? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on December 12, 2013, 01:31:23 PM
Sinn Féin still at 21% even after the two month long media onslaught.

(http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv123/Gardnerius/Animated%20gifs%20for%20boards/fifty.gif)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 12, 2013, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2013, 09:20:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.
What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?
I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on December 12, 2013, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2013, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2013, 09:20:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.
What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?
I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.
If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2013, 09:15:36 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 12, 2013, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2013, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2013, 09:20:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.
What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?
I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.
If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.
If the Easter Rising hadn't  taken place, what sort of Ireland , in your opinion, would we have now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 09:21:41 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 12, 2013, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2013, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2013, 09:20:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.
What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?
I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.
If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.

Would we not? Sure the Brit Establishment were so falling over themsevlves to avoid upsetting the Unionists we'd likely have ended up with a "3 Provinces" Home Rule and Ulster ( all of it) being run directly by Westminster.
Here's another IF for you
If the Brits had stood up to the Unionists and the Curragh Mutineers we'd have had an All Ireland Home Rule by 1914(probably with some local arrangements in parts of Ulster) and thus "we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland" or an Easter Rising either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on December 12, 2013, 10:04:16 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 12, 2013, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2013, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2013, 09:20:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.
What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?
I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.
If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.

Even though Home Rule Bill had already an opt out clause for Ulster Unionists and UVF was in place to enforce it. Asked you before without answer so once more: why so much weight on 1916 over such factors as above?

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:09:22 PM
Actually had the country not been split we would now be in a similar position to scotland with a chance to vote the whole country independant
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on December 13, 2013, 10:38:01 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:09:22 PM
Actually had the country not been split we would now be in a similar position to scotland with a chance to vote the whole country independant

Yeah and like Scotland the fecking peasants in the Free State would probably vote to maintain the Union. Like it or not, it was violent republicanism and the British response which radicalised the population (in so far that desiring self-determination is a 'radical' notion).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on December 13, 2013, 10:53:02 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on December 12, 2013, 10:04:16 PM
Even though Home Rule Bill had already an opt out clause for Ulster Unionists and UVF was in place to enforce it. Asked you before without answer so once more: why so much weight on 1916 over such factors as above?

/Jim.

The answer seems to be that if we'd have full independence without partition of only we'd waited 100 years. Even if we put aside the preposterous idea that 21st century Ulster Unionism is unwilling to fight tooth-and-nail to prevent an independent united Ireland, let alone the 1918 version of it, to accuse politicians of short-sightedness because they weren't willing to wait 100 years to achieve their political goals . . .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 15, 2013, 08:50:55 PM
Richard mccauley and ger form part of mandelas guard of honour at his funeral. What an honour!! Ger is clearly moved by the whole occasion :'(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on December 12, 2013, 10:04:16 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 12, 2013, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2013, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2013, 09:20:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 11, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.
What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?
I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.
If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.

Even though Home Rule Bill had already an opt out clause for Ulster Unionists and UVF was in place to enforce it. Asked you before without answer so once more: why so much weight on 1916 over such factors as above?

/Jim.
In my view, 1916 set us on the road to a divided country. Remember, unionists weren't seeking partition at this point. Carson, in fact, never wanted it at all. By forcing the issue and bringing things to a head, militant republicans polarised opinion in the country and forced unionists into a corner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on December 15, 2013, 09:30:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
In my view, 1916 set us on the road to a divided country. Remember, unionists weren't seeking partition at this point. Carson, in fact, never wanted it at all. By forcing the issue and bringing things to a head, militant republicans polarised opinion in the country and forced unionists into a corner.

What do you think the Ulster Covenant was about? I'm seriously intrigued at how you can come to the conclusion that it was the Rising that "forced unionists into a corner" given the existence of the Covenant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 10:20:46 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 15, 2013, 09:30:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
In my view, 1916 set us on the road to a divided country. Remember, unionists weren't seeking partition at this point. Carson, in fact, never wanted it at all. By forcing the issue and bringing things to a head, militant republicans polarised opinion in the country and forced unionists into a corner.

What do you think the Ulster Covenant was about? I'm seriously intrigued at how you can come to the conclusion that it was the Rising that "forced unionists into a corner" given the existence of the Covenant.
In the Covenant, unionists pledged themselves to do whatever it took to resist Home Rule. Their opposition hadn't disappeared 4 years later, so why did the men of 1916 think it an opportune time to force the case for Irish independence? If northern unionists were against home rule, was it not obvious that they would be even more against the idea of independence? The nationalist struggle for independence that took place post-1916 forced unionists to confront their worst fears and forced them into a decision. They had to choose whether they would roll over and accept their place in an independent Ireland, or whether they would resist it, as they had always said they would. They chose the latter and partition was the result.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on December 15, 2013, 10:41:44 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 10:20:46 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 15, 2013, 09:30:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
In my view, 1916 set us on the road to a divided country. Remember, unionists weren't seeking partition at this point. Carson, in fact, never wanted it at all. By forcing the issue and bringing things to a head, militant republicans polarised opinion in the country and forced unionists into a corner.

What do you think the Ulster Covenant was about? I'm seriously intrigued at how you can come to the conclusion that it was the Rising that "forced unionists into a corner" given the existence of the Covenant.
In the Covenant, unionists pledged themselves to do whatever it took to resist Home Rule. Their opposition hadn't disappeared 4 years later, so why did the men of 1916 think it an opportune time to force the case for Irish independence? If northern unionists were against home rule, was it not obvious that they would be even more against the idea of independence? The nationalist struggle for independence that took place post-1916 forced unionists to confront their worst fears and forced them into a decision. They had to choose whether they would roll over and accept their place in an independent Ireland, or whether they would resist it, as they had always said they would. They chose the latter and partition was the result.

The Ulster Covenant demonstrated that the Protestants of Ulster would not accept any kind of goverment in Dublin. That was when the partition of Ireland took place. There was little concept of separatism within Ireland before then - you are quite right that Carson opposed partition because he didn't think the sovereignty of Ireland should be sullied by asking the people of Ireland for their opinion on the matter - and this was entrenched in British politics when the leader of the Conservatives, Andrew Bonar Law, said in 1912 (http://www.britishempire.co.uk/biography/bonarlaw.htm) that he could  "imagine no length of resistance to which Ulster can go in which I should not be prepared to support them" (and yes, I have referred to it before and will keep doing so while you continue to airbrush it out of history). In short, the 'decision' you claim was made post-1916 was clearly made pre-1916 with the Ulster Covenant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 11:07:40 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 15, 2013, 10:41:44 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 10:20:46 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 15, 2013, 09:30:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
In my view, 1916 set us on the road to a divided country. Remember, unionists weren't seeking partition at this point. Carson, in fact, never wanted it at all. By forcing the issue and bringing things to a head, militant republicans polarised opinion in the country and forced unionists into a corner.

What do you think the Ulster Covenant was about? I'm seriously intrigued at how you can come to the conclusion that it was the Rising that "forced unionists into a corner" given the existence of the Covenant.
In the Covenant, unionists pledged themselves to do whatever it took to resist Home Rule. Their opposition hadn't disappeared 4 years later, so why did the men of 1916 think it an opportune time to force the case for Irish independence? If northern unionists were against home rule, was it not obvious that they would be even more against the idea of independence? The nationalist struggle for independence that took place post-1916 forced unionists to confront their worst fears and forced them into a decision. They had to choose whether they would roll over and accept their place in an independent Ireland, or whether they would resist it, as they had always said they would. They chose the latter and partition was the result.

The Ulster Covenant demonstrated that the Protestants of Ulster would not accept any kind of goverment in Dublin. That was when the partition of Ireland took place. There was little concept of separatism within Ireland before then - you are quite right that Carson opposed partition because he didn't think the sovereignty of Ireland should be sullied by asking the people of Ireland for their opinion on the matter - and this was entrenched in British politics when the leader of the Conservatives, Andrew Bonar Law, said in 1912 (http://www.britishempire.co.uk/biography/bonarlaw.htm) that he could  "imagine no length of resistance to which Ulster can go in which I should not be prepared to support them" (and yes, I have referred to it before and will keep doing so while you continue to airbrush it out of history). In short, the 'decision' you claim was made post-1916 was clearly made pre-1916 with the Ulster Covenant.
Unionists stated categorically through the Covenant that they would not countenance a Dublin government. They were not demanding that the country be divided into two states at that stage. That came later, after the 1916 uprising had kicked things off. Had the rising not taken place, the country would've continued to exist as a single entity under British rule. That may not have been ideal, it may not have been what the majority of people on the island wanted, but it would've been a better situation, imo, than what we have now. I think we're further away from an independent 32 county Ireland now than we were in 1916.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2013, 11:35:50 PM
QuoteUnionists stated categorically through the Covenant that they would not countenance a Dublin government.

Note that they did this before any negotiations whatsoever and when leading nationalists were people like Redmond who had never shown any indication to disadvantage the unionist community. Then, as now, they didn't see themselves as deserving of equal treatment but as a ubervolk who should be advantaged. How little changes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on December 18, 2013, 02:46:05 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
In my view, 1916 set us on the road to a divided country. Remember, unionists weren't seeking partition at this point. Carson, in fact, never wanted it at all. By forcing the issue and bringing things to a head, militant republicans polarised opinion in the country and forced unionists into a corner.

That is your view.  However on 8th of July 1914 Carson voted for a government amendment to exclude Ulster for 6 years from the Bill and a further amendment to remove the time qualification and the definition of which counties would be exempt.

So the rising may have harden attitudes but you are just factually wrong to say partition wasn't on the cards before then as it was already written into law.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on December 18, 2013, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 11:07:40 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 15, 2013, 10:41:44 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 10:20:46 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 15, 2013, 09:30:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 15, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
In my view, 1916 set us on the road to a divided country. Remember, unionists weren't seeking partition at this point. Carson, in fact, never wanted it at all. By forcing the issue and bringing things to a head, militant republicans polarised opinion in the country and forced unionists into a corner.

What do you think the Ulster Covenant was about? I'm seriously intrigued at how you can come to the conclusion that it was the Rising that "forced unionists into a corner" given the existence of the Covenant.
In the Covenant, unionists pledged themselves to do whatever it took to resist Home Rule. Their opposition hadn't disappeared 4 years later, so why did the men of 1916 think it an opportune time to force the case for Irish independence? If northern unionists were against home rule, was it not obvious that they would be even more against the idea of independence? The nationalist struggle for independence that took place post-1916 forced unionists to confront their worst fears and forced them into a decision. They had to choose whether they would roll over and accept their place in an independent Ireland, or whether they would resist it, as they had always said they would. They chose the latter and partition was the result.

The Ulster Covenant demonstrated that the Protestants of Ulster would not accept any kind of goverment in Dublin. That was when the partition of Ireland took place. There was little concept of separatism within Ireland before then - you are quite right that Carson opposed partition because he didn't think the sovereignty of Ireland should be sullied by asking the people of Ireland for their opinion on the matter - and this was entrenched in British politics when the leader of the Conservatives, Andrew Bonar Law, said in 1912 (http://www.britishempire.co.uk/biography/bonarlaw.htm) that he could  "imagine no length of resistance to which Ulster can go in which I should not be prepared to support them" (and yes, I have referred to it before and will keep doing so while you continue to airbrush it out of history). In short, the 'decision' you claim was made post-1916 was clearly made pre-1916 with the Ulster Covenant.
Unionists stated categorically through the Covenant that they would not countenance a Dublin government. They were not demanding that the country be divided into two states at that stage. That came later, after the 1916 uprising had kicked things off. Had the rising not taken place, the country would've continued to exist as a single entity under British rule. That may not have been ideal, it may not have been what the majority of people on the island wanted, but it would've been a better situation, imo, than what we have now. I think we're further away from an independent 32 county Ireland now than we were in 1916.

The exclusion of Ulster, or parts of Ulster, from Home Rule was being discussed in 1912 when the Third Home Rule Bill was first being debated in Parliament.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1912/apr/11/authority-of-imperial-parliament
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 18, 2013, 07:52:16 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/richard-haass-presenting-updated-proposals-to-northern-parties-today-1.1631730 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/richard-haass-presenting-updated-proposals-to-northern-parties-today-1.1631730)

As the talks continue at the Stormont Hotel in east Belfast, the US diplomat said he was still hopeful a deal could be achieved by this week, notwithstanding the mixed reaction to his first proposals paper presented on Monday.

There is potential for movement on the past and parades but the flags issue is proving difficult. In particular the possibility of the Irish Tricolour flying over buildings such as Stormont during official visits by the Irish President or Taoiseach has aroused unionist ire.

;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 19, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Dandy dave left gregory in no doubt about where he stood yesterday in parliment.

He defended haas and basically told campbell he wanted compromise on both sides and quickley.

I dont like dandy daves party or his policies but he takes no shit from the loyalists or anyone from this place so im gonna give him a cautious thumbs up.

His I dont give a fuk attitude toward nordieland could be just right at this time
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on December 19, 2013, 09:32:13 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 19, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Dandy dave left gregory in no doubt about where he stood yesterday in parliment.

He defended haas and basically told campbell he wanted compromise on both sides and quickley.

I dont like dandy daves party or his policies but he takes no shit from the loyalists or anyone from this place so im gonna give him a cautious thumbs up.

His I dont give a fuk attitude toward nordieland could be just right at this time

Sure Jesus, we've had that attitude to ye for decades down here and we get nothing but abuse for it ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 19, 2013, 09:40:34 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2013, 09:32:13 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 19, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Dandy dave left gregory in no doubt about where he stood yesterday in parliment.

He defended haas and basically told campbell he wanted compromise on both sides and quickley.

I dont like dandy daves party or his policies but he takes no shit from the loyalists or anyone from this place so im gonna give him a cautious thumbs up.

His I dont give a fuk attitude toward nordieland could be just right at this time

Sure Jesus, we've had that attitude to ye for decades down here and we get nothing but abuse for it ;)
Yeah thats right. But yee dont send us any cheques.. :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on December 19, 2013, 09:55:39 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 19, 2013, 09:40:34 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2013, 09:32:13 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 19, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Dandy dave left gregory in no doubt about where he stood yesterday in parliment.

He defended haas and basically told campbell he wanted compromise on both sides and quickley.

I dont like dandy daves party or his policies but he takes no shit from the loyalists or anyone from this place so im gonna give him a cautious thumbs up.

His I dont give a fuk attitude toward nordieland could be just right at this time

Sure Jesus, we've had that attitude to ye for decades down here and we get nothing but abuse for it ;)
Yeah thats right. But yee dont send us any cheques.. :D

He's bought your allegiance.... sad day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 19, 2013, 01:07:13 PM
yeah its funny to see that the british no longer give a fcuk about the six counties.
prev they used to as it was a rump of votes that could be obtained for whoever shouted the loudest about maintaining the union.

the brits dont want anything to do with the 6 counties, they want rid of it, its idiots , its financial burden on them and the jobs they could bring back over and make themselves look good

the brits have much the same attitude to us in the south too- its just they dont have to fund us.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on December 19, 2013, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 19, 2013, 01:07:13 PM
yeah its funny to see that the british no longer give a fcuk about the six counties.
prev they used to as it was a rump of votes that could be obtained for whoever shouted the loudest about maintaining the union.

the brits dont want anything to do with the 6 counties, they want rid of it, its idiots , its financial burden on them and the jobs they could bring back over and make themselves look good

the brits have much the same attitude to us in the south too- its just they dont have to fund us.

Why are they increasing the block grant then ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 19, 2013, 02:36:46 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 19, 2013, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 19, 2013, 01:07:13 PM
yeah its funny to see that the british no longer give a fcuk about the six counties.
prev they used to as it was a rump of votes that could be obtained for whoever shouted the loudest about maintaining the union.

the brits dont want anything to do with the 6 counties, they want rid of it, its idiots , its financial burden on them and the jobs they could bring back over and make themselves look good

the brits have much the same attitude to us in the south too- its just they dont have to fund us.

Why are they increasing the block grant then ?
obv because they really really want to keep the 6 counties!!   ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 19, 2013, 04:11:05 PM
QuoteWhy are they increasing the block grant then ?

Because they want to bribe Scotland and need the same formula for the sick counties?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on December 22, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
A new poll published this morning shows a drop in support for Sinn Féin.
According to the Behaviour & Attitudes survey in today's Sunday Times, the party's vote is down three points to 15%.
Satisfaction with their party leader Gerry Adams is also down by 8%.
Satisfaction in the government is up 11%, while Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin and Eamon Gilmore have all seen jumps in their popularity.
It is the first major survey since the release of the Smithwick Tribunal report and it suggests that Sinn Féin's stance on the report has not been popular.
In contrast, it appears the Government has received a positive boost following Ireland's recent exit from the bailout.
Fine Gael remains the most popular party in Ireland, up five points to 30%.
Fianna Fáil are unchanged on 21%, the same level as independents and others, while Labour are also unchanged on 11%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2013, 02:20:21 PM
I think we've passed the economic solstice and while summer is still far away there will be some more light for many people. In this situation FG can only do better.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on December 22, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on December 22, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
A new poll published this morning shows a drop in support for Sinn Féin.
According to the Behaviour & Attitudes survey in today's Sunday Times, the party's vote is down three points to 15%.
Satisfaction with their party leader Gerry Adams is also down by 8%.
Satisfaction in the government is up 11%, while Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin and Eamon Gilmore have all seen jumps in their popularity.
It is the first major survey since the release of the Smithwick Tribunal report and it suggests that Sinn Féin's stance on the report has not been popular.
In contrast, it appears the Government has received a positive boost following Ireland's recent exit from the bailout.
Fine Gael remains the most popular party in Ireland, up five points to 30%.
Fianna Fáil are unchanged on 21%, the same level as independents and others, while Labour are also unchanged on 11%.

Disappointing that for the Shinners,but considering the level of attacks on Gerry Adams over past few months(smithwick,Laim Adams case,and the programme on the disappeared) I would say happy enough only down 3%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 22, 2013, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 22, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on December 22, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
A new poll published this morning shows a drop in support for Sinn Féin.
According to the Behaviour & Attitudes survey in today's Sunday Times, the party's vote is down three points to 15%.
Satisfaction with their party leader Gerry Adams is also down by 8%.
Satisfaction in the government is up 11%, while Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin and Eamon Gilmore have all seen jumps in their popularity.
It is the first major survey since the release of the Smithwick Tribunal report and it suggests that Sinn Féin's stance on the report has not been popular.
In contrast, it appears the Government has received a positive boost following Ireland's recent exit from the bailout.
Fine Gael remains the most popular party in Ireland, up five points to 30%.
Fianna Fáil are unchanged on 21%, the same level as independents and others, while Labour are also unchanged on 11%.

Disappointing that for the Shinners,but considering the level of attacks on Gerry Adams over past few months(smithwick,Laim Adams case,and the programme on the disappeared) I would say happy enough only down 3%.

All warranted.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 28, 2013, 07:08:47 AM
I sensing a change.. Definately in the uk press toward sinn fein theres alot more shinners on tv and radio.. Not sure whats happening
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on December 28, 2013, 09:44:19 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 28, 2013, 07:08:47 AM
I sensing a change.. Definately in the uk press toward sinn fein theres alot more shinners on tv and radio.. Not sure whats happening

It's not the 80's, they are allowed on it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 28, 2013, 03:25:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 28, 2013, 07:08:47 AM
I sensing a change.. Definately in the uk press toward sinn fein theres alot more shinners on tv and radio.. Not sure whats happening
They are very much part of the British Establishment now, a bit like your man in Downton. ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 28, 2013, 04:28:46 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 28, 2013, 03:25:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 28, 2013, 07:08:47 AM
I sensing a change.. Definately in the uk press toward sinn fein theres alot more shinners on tv and radio.. Not sure whats happening
They are very much part of the British Establishment now, a bit like your man in Downton. ;D

One likes to read of the broader Empire on Boxing Day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 29, 2013, 12:18:12 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 28, 2013, 03:25:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 28, 2013, 07:08:47 AM
I sensing a change.. Definately in the uk press toward sinn fein theres alot more shinners on tv and radio.. Not sure whats happening
They are very much part of the British Establishment now, a bit like your man in Downton. ;D

Part of the establishment, have been for a long time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on December 29, 2013, 12:00:29 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 29, 2013, 12:18:12 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 28, 2013, 03:25:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 28, 2013, 07:08:47 AM
I sensing a change.. Definately in the uk press toward sinn fein theres alot more shinners on tv and radio.. Not sure whats happening
They are very much part of the British Establishment now, a bit like your man in Downton. ;D

Part of the establishment, have been for a long time.

;D ;D Martin Og will love you,maybe a bit of promotion. :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 12:39:18 PM
Sinn Fein councillors in a drunken brawl on their Xmas do in Belfast City Hall, wrecked the bogs, causing two grand of damage. They must have fell out over how the grant money was getting carved up this year  ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on December 30, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 12:39:18 PM
Sinn Fein councillors in a drunken brawl on their Xmas do in Belfast City Hall, wrecked the bogs, causing two grand of damage. They must have fell out over how the grant money was getting carved up this year  ;D

More lies,prove it.Glad to see you believe everything the DUP tell you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 30, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 12:39:18 PM
Sinn Fein councillors in a drunken brawl on their Xmas do in Belfast City Hall, wrecked the bogs, causing two grand of damage. They must have fell out over how the grant money was getting carved up this year  ;D

More lies,prove it.Glad to see you believe everything the DUP tell you.

So they will be taking legal action against the paper that printed the story ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 05:33:24 PM
Mind you Shinners aren't having much luck in the courts this last few days  8)

DUP making a fool out if Michelle O'Neill - not that this would be hard
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on December 30, 2013, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 05:33:24 PM
Mind you Shinners aren't having much luck in the courts this last few days  8)

DUP making a fool out if Michelle O'Neill - not that this would be hard
how do they know if they are making a fool out of her.. ? I cant understand  a word she says she talks like a machine pistol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on December 30, 2013, 05:38:11 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 30, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 12:39:18 PM
Sinn Fein councillors in a drunken brawl on their Xmas do in Belfast City Hall, wrecked the bogs, causing two grand of damage. They must have fell out over how the grant money was getting carved up this year  ;D

More lies,prove it.Glad to see you believe everything the DUP tell you.

So they will be taking legal action against the paper that printed the story ?

I know Martin Og and you boys are a bit thick but the paper only printed that the DUP accused the Shinners of this so learn to read what is printed before talking nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SHEEDY on December 30, 2013, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 30, 2013, 05:38:11 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 30, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 12:39:18 PM
Sinn Fein councillors in a drunken brawl on their Xmas do in Belfast City Hall, wrecked the bogs, causing two grand of damage. They must have fell out over how the grant money was getting carved up this year  ;D

More lies,prove it.Glad to see you believe everything the DUP tell you.

So they will be taking legal action against the paper that printed the story ?

I know Martin Og and you boys are a bit thick but the paper only printed that the DUP accused the Shinners of this so learn to read what is printed before talking nonsense.
so the official party line is 'we didn't wreck the bogs'  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on December 30, 2013, 07:29:57 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 30, 2013, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 30, 2013, 05:38:11 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 30, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2013, 12:39:18 PM
Sinn Fein councillors in a drunken brawl on their Xmas do in Belfast City Hall, wrecked the bogs, causing two grand of damage. They must have fell out over how the grant money was getting carved up this year  ;D

More lies,prove it.Glad to see you believe everything the DUP tell you.

So they will be taking legal action against the paper that printed the story ?

I know Martin Og and you boys are a bit thick but the paper only printed that the DUP accused the Shinners of this so learn to read what is printed before talking nonsense.
so the official party line is 'we didn't wreck the bogs'  ;)

Yip
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 30, 2013, 08:08:09 PM
DUP accuse shinners of taking the piss.  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on December 30, 2013, 08:20:02 PM
"If a man has not found something worth fighting for then he is not fit to live."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 30, 2013, 11:29:31 PM
Is anyone buried in the bogs?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on December 31, 2013, 12:09:11 AM
I thought the bogs were now protected by European laws ?

There could be a big fine coming our way if the bogs have been tampered with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 31, 2013, 09:38:54 AM
Breaking Bogs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 01, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Lost in all of this is the fact that O'Neill's proposals were based on sound economic policy for once...But the DUP farming lobby would prefer to keep taking the European handouts, whilst remaining anti EU. In fact Scotland and England are committing a larger percentage to rural infrastructure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 10:57:59 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 01, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Lost in all of this is the fact that O'Neill's proposals were based on sound economic policy for once...But the DUP farming lobby would prefer to keep taking the European handouts, whilst remaining anti EU. In fact Scotland and England are committing a larger percentage to rural infrastructure.
not so much "rural infrastructure" as sticking their hand in the farmers pocket to pay for environmental projects not necessarily related to farming.
the money you speak of is paid to farmers so they can continue to supply food at below cost prices.. what the governments want to do is take a portion of it to spend on parks and ponds etc its not their money in the eyes of many farmers and they already loss over 50% in administration costs as it is.

it may sound as though farmers get a huge hand out but in fact by the time the governments are finished its not enough. English and welsh farmers are cracking up about the proposal as well since it disadvantages them and they are better paid for their produce than farmers here.
you wont see gimp Kenny trying this it'd be the end of him and he knows it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 02, 2014, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 10:57:59 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 01, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Lost in all of this is the fact that O'Neill's proposals were based on sound economic policy for once...But the DUP farming lobby would prefer to keep taking the European handouts, whilst remaining anti EU. In fact Scotland and England are committing a larger percentage to rural infrastructure.
not so much "rural infrastructure" as sticking their hand in the farmers pocket to pay for environmental projects not necessarily related to farming.
the money you speak of is paid to farmers so they can continue to supply food at below cost prices.. what the governments want to do is take a portion of it to spend on parks and ponds etc its not their money in the eyes of many farmers and they already loss over 50% in administration costs as it is.

it may sound as though farmers get a huge hand out but in fact by the time the governments are finished its not enough. English and welsh farmers are cracking up about the proposal as well since it disadvantages them and they are better paid for their produce than farmers here.
you wont see gimp Kenny trying this it'd be the end of him and he knows it
Why then if this handout from Europe is so needed by the poor farmers are the DUP, UUP,and SF want to kick the EU into touch? Where is this bailout going to come in a post bailout Uk/Ireland?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 11:59:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 02, 2014, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 10:57:59 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 01, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Lost in all of this is the fact that O'Neill's proposals were based on sound economic policy for once...But the DUP farming lobby would prefer to keep taking the European handouts, whilst remaining anti EU. In fact Scotland and England are committing a larger percentage to rural infrastructure.
not so much "rural infrastructure" as sticking their hand in the farmers pocket to pay for environmental projects not necessarily related to farming.
the money you speak of is paid to farmers so they can continue to supply food at below cost prices.. what the governments want to do is take a portion of it to spend on parks and ponds etc its not their money in the eyes of many farmers and they already loss over 50% in administration costs as it is.

it may sound as though farmers get a huge hand out but in fact by the time the governments are finished its not enough. English and welsh farmers are cracking up about the proposal as well since it disadvantages them and they are better paid for their produce than farmers here.
you wont see gimp Kenny trying this it'd be the end of him and he knows it
Why then if this handout from Europe is so needed by the poor farmers are the DUP, UUP,and SF want to kick the EU into touch? Where is this bailout going to come in a post bailout Uk/Ireland?
the single farm payment is supposed to end soon anyway.. but for now why should farmers put up with the government helping themselves to their money as they see it to fund wildlife. farmers already leave portions of land aside for this. land they could otherwise bring into production so it already costs them money they are trying to make money why would they work for nothing no one else does
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 03, 2014, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 11:59:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 02, 2014, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 10:57:59 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 01, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Lost in all of this is the fact that O'Neill's proposals were based on sound economic policy for once...But the DUP farming lobby would prefer to keep taking the European handouts, whilst remaining anti EU. In fact Scotland and England are committing a larger percentage to rural infrastructure.
not so much "rural infrastructure" as sticking their hand in the farmers pocket to pay for environmental projects not necessarily related to farming.
the money you speak of is paid to farmers so they can continue to supply food at below cost prices.. what the governments want to do is take a portion of it to spend on parks and ponds etc its not their money in the eyes of many farmers and they already loss over 50% in administration costs as it is.

it may sound as though farmers get a huge hand out but in fact by the time the governments are finished its not enough. English and welsh farmers are cracking up about the proposal as well since it disadvantages them and they are better paid for their produce than farmers here.
you wont see gimp Kenny trying this it'd be the end of him and he knows it
Why then if this handout from Europe is so needed by the poor farmers are the DUP, UUP,and SF want to kick the EU into touch? Where is this bailout going to come in a post bailout Uk/Ireland?
the single farm payment is supposed to end soon anyway.. but for now why should farmers put up with the government helping themselves to their money as they see it to fund wildlife. farmers already leave portions of land aside for this. land they could otherwise bring into production so it already costs them money they are trying to make money why would they work for nothing no one else does

The fact there is even debate on how the money should be spent shows that Hamilton was correct to rein her in. It is not her money to do with as she pleases.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 09:58:14 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 11:59:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 02, 2014, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 10:57:59 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 01, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Lost in all of this is the fact that O'Neill's proposals were based on sound economic policy for once...But the DUP farming lobby would prefer to keep taking the European handouts, whilst remaining anti EU. In fact Scotland and England are committing a larger percentage to rural infrastructure.
not so much "rural infrastructure" as sticking their hand in the farmers pocket to pay for environmental projects not necessarily related to farming.
the money you speak of is paid to farmers so they can continue to supply food at below cost prices.. what the governments want to do is take a portion of it to spend on parks and ponds etc its not their money in the eyes of many farmers and they already loss over 50% in administration costs as it is.

it may sound as though farmers get a huge hand out but in fact by the time the governments are finished its not enough. English and welsh farmers are cracking up about the proposal as well since it disadvantages them and they are better paid for their produce than farmers here.
you wont see gimp Kenny trying this it'd be the end of him and he knows it
Why then if this handout from Europe is so needed by the poor farmers are the DUP, UUP,and SF want to kick the EU into touch? Where is this bailout going to come in a post bailout Uk/Ireland?
the single farm payment is supposed to end soon anyway.. but for now why should farmers put up with the government helping themselves to their money as they see it to fund wildlife. farmers already leave portions of land aside for this. land they could otherwise bring into production so it already costs them money they are trying to make money why would they work for nothing no one else does
This amounts to nothing more than a handout for inefficient farming businesses. My understanding that some if not all this money will be spent enabling farmers and rural communities to diversify and potentially become profitable and reduce dependence on hand outs. Farms are inefficient because of this handout, there has to be an incentive to invest in buildings equipment and the environment, rather than continue to subsidise small farms.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 03, 2014, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 09:58:14 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 11:59:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 02, 2014, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 10:57:59 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 01, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Lost in all of this is the fact that O'Neill's proposals were based on sound economic policy for once...But the DUP farming lobby would prefer to keep taking the European handouts, whilst remaining anti EU. In fact Scotland and England are committing a larger percentage to rural infrastructure.
not so much "rural infrastructure" as sticking their hand in the farmers pocket to pay for environmental projects not necessarily related to farming.
the money you speak of is paid to farmers so they can continue to supply food at below cost prices.. what the governments want to do is take a portion of it to spend on parks and ponds etc its not their money in the eyes of many farmers and they already loss over 50% in administration costs as it is.

it may sound as though farmers get a huge hand out but in fact by the time the governments are finished its not enough. English and welsh farmers are cracking up about the proposal as well since it disadvantages them and they are better paid for their produce than farmers here.
you wont see gimp Kenny trying this it'd be the end of him and he knows it
Why then if this handout from Europe is so needed by the poor farmers are the DUP, UUP,and SF want to kick the EU into touch? Where is this bailout going to come in a post bailout Uk/Ireland?
the single farm payment is supposed to end soon anyway.. but for now why should farmers put up with the government helping themselves to their money as they see it to fund wildlife. farmers already leave portions of land aside for this. land they could otherwise bring into production so it already costs them money they are trying to make money why would they work for nothing no one else does
This amounts to nothing more than a handout for inefficient farming businesses. My understanding that some if not all this money will be spent enabling farmers and rural communities to diversify and potentially become profitable and reduce dependence on hand outs. Farms are inefficient because of this handout, there has to be an incentive to invest in buildings equipment and the environment, rather than continue to subsidise small farms.
land in nordieland changes hands less frequently than land anywhere else in Europe and possibly the least on the planet. small farms get the same subs that big farms get you don't hear large farmers say oh I'm big I don't need my single farm payment they are the ones who scream loudest when subs are cut or delayed.

heres a short calculation..
to kill 20 cattle a week which is the minimum 'contract' on offer you need to handle 1000 cattle a year at roughly 600 each thats 600000 + buildings 800000+ machinery 100000 +land 300 acres @12000/acre 3.6million

20 cattle a week would earn maybe £2000, less wages a farmer + a worker, less all variable costs, less depreciation on buildings +machinery, less tax. heres one.. a fence post is £2.60 you'd need to be buying 100 of these every year just to maintain your fences 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on January 03, 2014, 10:41:33 AM
Where are you buying your fence posts, a garden centre?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 03, 2014, 12:36:37 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 03, 2014, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 09:58:14 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 11:59:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 02, 2014, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 10:57:59 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 01, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Lost in all of this is the fact that O'Neill's proposals were based on sound economic policy for once...But the DUP farming lobby would prefer to keep taking the European handouts, whilst remaining anti EU. In fact Scotland and England are committing a larger percentage to rural infrastructure.
not so much "rural infrastructure" as sticking their hand in the farmers pocket to pay for environmental projects not necessarily related to farming.
the money you speak of is paid to farmers so they can continue to supply food at below cost prices.. what the governments want to do is take a portion of it to spend on parks and ponds etc its not their money in the eyes of many farmers and they already loss over 50% in administration costs as it is.

it may sound as though farmers get a huge hand out but in fact by the time the governments are finished its not enough. English and welsh farmers are cracking up about the proposal as well since it disadvantages them and they are better paid for their produce than farmers here.
you wont see gimp Kenny trying this it'd be the end of him and he knows it
Why then if this handout from Europe is so needed by the poor farmers are the DUP, UUP,and SF want to kick the EU into touch? Where is this bailout going to come in a post bailout Uk/Ireland?
the single farm payment is supposed to end soon anyway.. but for now why should farmers put up with the government helping themselves to their money as they see it to fund wildlife. farmers already leave portions of land aside for this. land they could otherwise bring into production so it already costs them money they are trying to make money why would they work for nothing no one else does
This amounts to nothing more than a handout for inefficient farming businesses. My understanding that some if not all this money will be spent enabling farmers and rural communities to diversify and potentially become profitable and reduce dependence on hand outs. Farms are inefficient because of this handout, there has to be an incentive to invest in buildings equipment and the environment, rather than continue to subsidise small farms.
land in nordieland changes hands less frequently than land anywhere else in Europe and possibly the least on the planet. small farms get the same subs that big farms get you don't hear large farmers say oh I'm big I don't need my single farm payment they are the ones who scream loudest when subs are cut or delayed.

heres a short calculation..
to kill 20 cattle a week which is the minimum 'contract' on offer you need to handle 1000 cattle a year at roughly 600 each thats 600000 + buildings 800000+ machinery 100000 +land 300 acres @12000/acre 3.6million

20 cattle a week would earn maybe £2000, less wages a farmer + a worker, less all variable costs, less depreciation on buildings +machinery, less tax. heres one.. a fence post is £2.60 you'd need to be buying 100 of these every year just to maintain your fences

Doesn't take Alan Sugar to see the problem there, buying them at £600 each and getting £100 each for them would soon get you the road in any other business.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 22, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on December 22, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
A new poll published this morning shows a drop in support for Sinn Féin.
According to the Behaviour & Attitudes survey in today's Sunday Times, the party's vote is down three points to 15%.
Satisfaction with their party leader Gerry Adams is also down by 8%.
Satisfaction in the government is up 11%, while Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin and Eamon Gilmore have all seen jumps in their popularity.
It is the first major survey since the release of the Smithwick Tribunal report and it suggests that Sinn Féin's stance on the report has not been popular.
In contrast, it appears the Government has received a positive boost following Ireland's recent exit from the bailout.
Fine Gael remains the most popular party in Ireland, up five points to 30%.
Fianna Fáil are unchanged on 21%, the same level as independents and others, while Labour are also unchanged on 11%.

Disappointing that for the Shinners,but considering the level of attacks on Gerry Adams over past few months(smithwick,Laim Adams case,and the programme on the disappeared) I would say happy enough only down 3%.

Good to see latest poll has the Shinners back up 3% and Gerry up again in Leaders poll. ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 09, 2014, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 22, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on December 22, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
A new poll published this morning shows a drop in support for Sinn Féin.
According to the Behaviour & Attitudes survey in today's Sunday Times, the party's vote is down three points to 15%.
Satisfaction with their party leader Gerry Adams is also down by 8%.
Satisfaction in the government is up 11%, while Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin and Eamon Gilmore have all seen jumps in their popularity.
It is the first major survey since the release of the Smithwick Tribunal report and it suggests that Sinn Féin's stance on the report has not been popular.
In contrast, it appears the Government has received a positive boost following Ireland's recent exit from the bailout.
Fine Gael remains the most popular party in Ireland, up five points to 30%.
Fianna Fáil are unchanged on 21%, the same level as independents and others, while Labour are also unchanged on 11%.

Disappointing that for the Shinners,but considering the level of attacks on Gerry Adams over past few months(smithwick,Laim Adams case,and the programme on the disappeared) I would say happy enough only down 3%.

Good to see latest poll has the Shinners back up 3% and Gerry up again in Leaders poll. ;D
Gerry has a 26% satisfaction rating and only 70% satisfaction with SF supporters. Of the 4 leaders, only Gilmore is worse.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 05:12:39 PM
Even better news is that 29% of young people between 18-36 say they would give SF 1st preference,the highest of all the parties. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 05:14:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 09, 2014, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 22, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on December 22, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
A new poll published this morning shows a drop in support for Sinn Féin.
According to the Behaviour & Attitudes survey in today's Sunday Times, the party's vote is down three points to 15%.
Satisfaction with their party leader Gerry Adams is also down by 8%.
Satisfaction in the government is up 11%, while Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin and Eamon Gilmore have all seen jumps in their popularity.
It is the first major survey since the release of the Smithwick Tribunal report and it suggests that Sinn Féin's stance on the report has not been popular.
In contrast, it appears the Government has received a positive boost following Ireland's recent exit from the bailout.
Fine Gael remains the most popular party in Ireland, up five points to 30%.
Fianna Fáil are unchanged on 21%, the same level as independents and others, while Labour are also unchanged on 11%.

Disappointing that for the Shinners,but considering the level of attacks on Gerry Adams over past few months(smithwick,Laim Adams case,and the programme on the disappeared) I would say happy enough only down 3%.

Good to see latest poll has the Shinners back up 3% and Gerry up again in Leaders poll. ;D
Gerry has a 26% satisfaction rating and only 70% satisfaction with SF supporters. Of the 4 leaders, only Gilmore is worse.

You may hope he doesn't stand down then  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 09, 2014, 05:16:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 05:12:39 PM
Even better news is that 29% of young people between 18-36 say they would give SF 1st preference,the highest of all the parties. ;D ;D
But will those young people actually go out and vote?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 09, 2014, 05:16:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 05:12:39 PM
Even better news is that 29% of young people between 18-36 say they would give SF 1st preference,the highest of all the parties. ;D ;D
But will those young people actually go out and vote?

???Who knows,that will be up to the party machines to try and get people out which gets harder every time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 05:24:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 09, 2014, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 22, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on December 22, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
A new poll published this morning shows a drop in support for Sinn Féin.
According to the Behaviour & Attitudes survey in today's Sunday Times, the party's vote is down three points to 15%.
Satisfaction with their party leader Gerry Adams is also down by 8%.
Satisfaction in the government is up 11%, while Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin and Eamon Gilmore have all seen jumps in their popularity.
It is the first major survey since the release of the Smithwick Tribunal report and it suggests that Sinn Féin's stance on the report has not been popular.
In contrast, it appears the Government has received a positive boost following Ireland's recent exit from the bailout.
Fine Gael remains the most popular party in Ireland, up five points to 30%.
Fianna Fáil are unchanged on 21%, the same level as independents and others, while Labour are also unchanged on 11%.

Disappointing that for the Shinners,but considering the level of attacks on Gerry Adams over past few months(smithwick,Laim Adams case,and the programme on the disappeared) I would say happy enough only down 3%.

Good to see latest poll has the Shinners back up 3% and Gerry up again in Leaders poll. ;D
Gerry has a 26% satisfaction rating and only 70% satisfaction with SF supporters. Of the 4 leaders, only Gilmore is worse.
Inda on 86% support among his own party. A party which tried to oust him as leader just before FF's (temporary :() implosion gifted him the reins of power. Given the fact that SF were the only party to show an increase in support, I'd say Adams & SF are more than content with this poll, particularly given the media's intense "Adam's out" hobbyhorse/witch-hunt in recent months.

Such polls tend to annoy me though as they're just a sad reminder that at least one in five Irish people want FF back in power. Which should be staggering... but yet, nothing surprises.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 09, 2014, 05:32:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 05:24:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 09, 2014, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 22, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on December 22, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
A new poll published this morning shows a drop in support for Sinn Féin.
According to the Behaviour & Attitudes survey in today's Sunday Times, the party's vote is down three points to 15%.
Satisfaction with their party leader Gerry Adams is also down by 8%.
Satisfaction in the government is up 11%, while Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin and Eamon Gilmore have all seen jumps in their popularity.
It is the first major survey since the release of the Smithwick Tribunal report and it suggests that Sinn Féin's stance on the report has not been popular.
In contrast, it appears the Government has received a positive boost following Ireland's recent exit from the bailout.
Fine Gael remains the most popular party in Ireland, up five points to 30%.
Fianna Fáil are unchanged on 21%, the same level as independents and others, while Labour are also unchanged on 11%.

Disappointing that for the Shinners,but considering the level of attacks on Gerry Adams over past few months(smithwick,Laim Adams case,and the programme on the disappeared) I would say happy enough only down 3%.

Good to see latest poll has the Shinners back up 3% and Gerry up again in Leaders poll. ;D
Gerry has a 26% satisfaction rating and only 70% satisfaction with SF supporters. Of the 4 leaders, only Gilmore is worse.
Inda on 86% support among his own party. A party which tried to oust him as leader just before FF's (temporary :() implosion gifted him the reins of power. Given the fact that SF were the only party to show an increase in support, I'd say Adams & SF are more than content with this poll, particularly given the media's intense "Adam's out" hobbyhorse/witch-hunt in recent months.

Such polls tend to annoy me though as they're just a sad reminder that at least one in five Irish people want FF back in power. Which should be staggering... but yet, nothing surprises.
86% among those polled who support FG - it wasn't them who tried to oust him.

And let's not forget, whilst yes, FF's implosion handed Enda the reins, it was also a significant factor in SF's bounce.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 05:49:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 09, 2014, 05:32:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 05:24:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 09, 2014, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 22, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on December 22, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
A new poll published this morning shows a drop in support for Sinn Féin.
According to the Behaviour & Attitudes survey in today's Sunday Times, the party's vote is down three points to 15%.
Satisfaction with their party leader Gerry Adams is also down by 8%.
Satisfaction in the government is up 11%, while Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin and Eamon Gilmore have all seen jumps in their popularity.
It is the first major survey since the release of the Smithwick Tribunal report and it suggests that Sinn Féin's stance on the report has not been popular.
In contrast, it appears the Government has received a positive boost following Ireland's recent exit from the bailout.
Fine Gael remains the most popular party in Ireland, up five points to 30%.
Fianna Fáil are unchanged on 21%, the same level as independents and others, while Labour are also unchanged on 11%.

Disappointing that for the Shinners,but considering the level of attacks on Gerry Adams over past few months(smithwick,Laim Adams case,and the programme on the disappeared) I would say happy enough only down 3%.

Good to see latest poll has the Shinners back up 3% and Gerry up again in Leaders poll. ;D
Gerry has a 26% satisfaction rating and only 70% satisfaction with SF supporters. Of the 4 leaders, only Gilmore is worse.
Inda on 86% support among his own party. A party which tried to oust him as leader just before FF's (temporary :() implosion gifted him the reins of power. Given the fact that SF were the only party to show an increase in support, I'd say Adams & SF are more than content with this poll, particularly given the media's intense "Adam's out" hobbyhorse/witch-hunt in recent months.

Such polls tend to annoy me though as they're just a sad reminder that at least one in five Irish people want FF back in power. Which should be staggering... but yet, nothing surprises.
86% among those polled who support FG - it wasn't them who tried to oust him.

And let's not forget, whilst yes, FF's implosion handed Enda the reins, it was also a significant factor in SF's bounce.
Of course. Difference being that SF's leader hadn't just faced a leadership challenge (at least not from within the party!)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 05:49:07 PM
Difference being that SF's leader hadn't just faced a leadership challenge (at least not from within the party!)
I wonder what happens to any one in SF who would launch a leadership challenge  :o :-X
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 07:32:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 05:49:07 PM
Difference being that SF's leader hadn't just faced a leadership challenge (at least not from within the party!)
I wonder what happens to any one in SF who would launch a leadership challenge  :o :-X

They would loose. :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2014, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 07:32:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 05:49:07 PM
Difference being that SF's leader hadn't just faced a leadership challenge (at least not from within the party!)
I wonder what happens to any one in SF who would launch a leadership challenge  :o :-X

They would loose. :o
Lose their heads?  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2014, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 07:32:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 05:49:07 PM
Difference being that SF's leader hadn't just faced a leadership challenge (at least not from within the party!)
I wonder what happens to any one in SF who would launch a leadership challenge  :o :-X

They would loose. :o
Lose their heads?  ;D

;D ;D we have moved on. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 09, 2014, 08:36:31 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 05:12:39 PM
Even better news is that 29% of young people between 18-36 say they would give SF 1st preference,the highest of all the parties. ;D ;D

35% of young people between 18-36 say they would vote for a 2 day week.  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on January 09, 2014, 10:49:02 PM
SINN FEIN COUNCILLOR REFERS TO VICTIMS OF SUICIDE AS 'DEATH WANTERS.'

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/01/sinn-fein-councillor-refers-to-victims.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 09, 2014, 11:00:33 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 09, 2014, 10:49:02 PM
SINN FEIN COUNCILLOR REFERS TO VICTIMS OF SUICIDE AS 'DEATH WANTERS.'

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/01/sinn-fein-councillor-refers-to-victims.html

if this is true I have no doubt he will be dealt with within the party as SF work very hard with groups involved in suicide awareness,but to quote something from a paper edited by a man who got Ex-republican prisoners to inform on their former comrades and was involved with the gangster McFeely in the Priory Hall project I would take with a pinch of salt.Sinking pretty low now Dixie.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on January 26, 2014, 06:21:28 PM
Is Gerry Kelly on the Policing Board? Did he put some 'extra' work into this area?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 27, 2014, 10:58:00 AM
Looking like mary lou for new leader. Her high profile on the public accounts committee is doing her no harm
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 11:04:35 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2014, 10:58:00 AM
Looking like mary lou for new leader. Her high profile on the public accounts committee is doing her no harm

She has to be less respected than Gerry in the Republic and that is saying something.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 27, 2014, 11:10:08 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 11:04:35 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2014, 10:58:00 AM
Looking like mary lou for new leader. Her high profile on the public accounts committee is doing her no harm

She has to be less respected than Gerry in the Republic and that is saying something.
How come? What did she do on ya?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on January 27, 2014, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 26, 2014, 06:21:28 PM
Is Gerry Kelly on the Policing Board? Did he put some 'extra' work into this area?

Is the rumour not allowed to be discussed on here?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 27, 2014, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 27, 2014, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 26, 2014, 06:21:28 PM
Is Gerry Kelly on the Policing Board? Did he put some 'extra' work into this area?

Is the rumour not allowed to be discussed on here?

It is an old one, not relevant for much longer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on January 27, 2014, 12:42:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 27, 2014, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 27, 2014, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 26, 2014, 06:21:28 PM
Is Gerry Kelly on the Policing Board? Did he put some 'extra' work into this area?

Is the rumour not allowed to be discussed on here?

It is an old one, not relevant for much longer.

Ah! I only heard it last week.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 27, 2014, 12:43:13 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 27, 2014, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 27, 2014, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 26, 2014, 06:21:28 PM
Is Gerry Kelly on the Policing Board? Did he put some 'extra' work into this area?

Is the rumour not allowed to be discussed on here?

It is an old one, not relevant for much longer.
Heard it a while back lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 27, 2014, 01:51:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2014, 10:58:00 AM
Looking like mary lou for new leader. Her high profile on the public accounts committee is doing her no harm
Believe it or not, you are probably right!
I'm very surprised at the number of people who think she's doing a fine job and her stint on the PAC is doing her no harm at all.
Gerry, being Gerry, will only appeal to the nationalist section of the community and his views on health, employment and other policy issues are largely disregarded. Besides that, many people down here can't cope with his accent. Maybe all people in West Belfast talk like he does but this isn't West Belfast and Gerry isn't getting his point across. That's when he has a point to make as he spend too much time trading insults with Kenny in the Dail.
Mary Lou has no historical baggage, speaks in a language we all understand and is coming across very ell brief at the PAC hearings.
I don't imagine that everyone who is impressed by her recent form will vote SF in future elections because of this but she sure is making more friends than Gerry is or ever will do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 27, 2014, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 27, 2014, 01:51:48 PM
Besides that, many people down here can't cope with his accent.
Many people "down there" would need to get their priorities straight. His accent! FFS!

Personally, I never warmed to Mary Lou much but she is highly capable all the same. Though in saying that, under Adams' leadership, SF has trebled it's support in one term, he's topped the poll in his constituency and despite a good eight weeks of Adams bashing in the media in their campaign to oust him, the very next poll in it's aftermath showed the party as being the only one to increase support and showed a slight increase in his own personal support. Long may he stick around.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 27, 2014, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 27, 2014, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 27, 2014, 01:51:48 PM
Besides that, many people down here can't cope with his accent.
Many people "down there" would need to get their priorities straight. His accent! FFS!

Personally, I never warmed to Mary Lou much but she is highly capable all the same. Though in saying that, under Adams' leadership, SF has trebled it's support in one term, he's topped the poll in his constituency and despite a good eight weeks of Adams bashing in the media in their campaign to oust him, the very next poll in it's aftermath showed the party as being the only one to increase support and showed a slight increase in his own personal support. Long may he stick around.


He may still be put on a pedestal in the north, but he's one of SFs main weaknesses in the Dáil. He has very little appeal imo, whether it be personality, policy or integrity.
Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty (who seems to have disappeared over the past few months) seem to be far more capable and have a much higher 'strike rate' in the Dáil. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 27, 2014, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 27, 2014, 02:39:38 PM
He may still be put on a pedestal in the north,
Poll-topper in Louth and a routinely high approval rating in polls so you can't argue with results. Also described by Fr Alec Reid, ("chaplain to the peace process"), in his last recorded interview before his death as "probably the most capable politician in the country and possibly one of the most capable in Europe).

Quote from: Tubberman on January 27, 2014, 02:39:38 PM
but he's one of SFs main weaknesses in the Dáil.
A month before the current furore about the CRS pensions, Adams was in the Dáil asking Kenny about the issue of top-ups for senior execs in state agencies. He pressed for an enquiry stating that "citizens want to know what's happening within our health services" and "to the money they give to charity". Kenny's answer?... "If you want to have a debate about the past you can start by clarifying for everybody in this country whether or not you were a member of the IRA. Nobody believes you, nobody believes you." Personally, if these are the things we gauge Dáil performances on, I know who I'd rather vote for from that little interaction and countless other like it.

Quote from: Tubberman on January 27, 2014, 02:39:38 PM
He has very little appeal imo, whether it be personality, policy or integrity.
Again, a poll topper, north & south, who led the party in a time when it trebled it's representation.

Quote from: Tubberman on January 27, 2014, 02:39:38 PM
Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty (who seems to have disappeared over the past few months) seem to be far more capable and have a much higher 'strike rate' in the Dáil.
Pearse would be my choice to succeed Adams, but as I sa, I'd like that to be a few years away yet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 03:22:02 PM
Nally a poll topper in Louth means little when you try and understand the views of the state. Louth is largely populated from blow-ins from the north. A priest hold very little moral weight in the minds of a very high % of people our side of the border.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on January 27, 2014, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 03:22:02 PM
Nally a poll topper in Louth means little when you try and understand the views of the state. Louth is largely populated from blow-ins from the north. A priest hold very little moral weight in the minds of a very high % of people our side of the border.

I dont normally drop into these debates because of the personal nature of the replies to various points.

That being said that on a purely political 'skill' level, I would venture to say that there are very few if any politicians in the Dail that could go toe to toe with GA. That is taking the backgrounds and 'politics' out of it, purely on quickness or mind, thought and language, I have yet to see any one that could cope.

Purely personal opinion but have yet to see anything to convince me otherwise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 27, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Gerry grates on me too. But I have to say some of the small minded anti northern attitudes displayed here in answers are sad. I don't think he has a great personality, but I would concede that he is an astute and clever politician. Any doubts I have as to his ability to lead SF are all predicated on how he is portrayed in the media, his position on the IRA and his role there in and the knock on effect it has on his credability. Kenny's answer doesn't surprise me an intellectual pygmy he was on his way out as FG leader before FF's implosion handed him a life line.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 27, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Gerry grates on me too. But I have to say some of the small minded anti northern attitudes displayed here in answers are sad. I don't think he has a great personality, but I would concede that he is an astute and clever politician. Any doubts I have as to his ability to lead SF are all predicated on how he is portrayed in the media, his position on the IRA and his role there in and the knock on effect it has on his credability. Kenny's answer doesn't surprise me an intellectual pygmy he was on his way out as FG leader before FF's implosion handed him a life line.

You haven't noticed all the anti-ROI/26 threads and posts on this board, they appear regularly, "the Rotten Republic" is the latest abuse from the north. O and there was Fuzzmans ranting thread that came and went like the wind.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 27, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 27, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Gerry grates on me too. But I have to say some of the small minded anti northern attitudes displayed here in answers are sad. I don't think he has a great personality, but I would concede that he is an astute and clever politician. Any doubts I have as to his ability to lead SF are all predicated on how he is portrayed in the media, his position on the IRA and his role there in and the knock on effect it has on his credability. Kenny's answer doesn't surprise me an intellectual pygmy he was on his way out as FG leader before FF's implosion handed him a life line.

There are only about 3 seriously anti-North posters here. The others are just taking the Mick.

And of the  you can't really take MGHU & Mike Sheehy as representative of the rest of us.

Disliking Adams has nothing to do with where he is from geographically, it is where he is from historically. He was the face we grew up watching after every IRA bombing. All of them I disagreed with, despite that some of them I could understand and some I was totally horrified by. But all of them had Gerry smugly refusing to condemn them.

He will have his supporters as he is entitled to have, but anyone in the Dail is perfectly entitled to ask him about his membership of the IRA. Because most of us want to hear him deny/admit it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 27, 2014, 07:02:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
but anyone in the Dail is perfectly entitled to ask him about his membership of the IRA. Because most of us want to hear him deny/admit it.

Of course he is entitled to be asked on it. But when he is trying to represent his constituents on issues nothing what-so-ever to do with the the IRA, then Enda Kenny's persistent childish jibes are nothing more than a two fingered salute to Adam's constituents and a cowardly get-out clause when asked uncomfortable questions about so many much more modern and pressing issues than Gerry Adams' past. And I really don't think "most" people "want to hear him deny/admit it". I think most people have their mind made up on that long ago. I'd say only the Dublin media really cares. Well, the Dublin media, and those who have their entire thought process led/dictated by it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 09:58:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 27, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Gerry grates on me too. But I have to say some of the small minded anti northern attitudes displayed here in answers are sad. I don't think he has a great personality, but I would concede that he is an astute and clever politician. Any doubts I have as to his ability to lead SF are all predicated on how he is portrayed in the media, his position on the IRA and his role there in and the knock on effect it has on his credability. Kenny's answer doesn't surprise me an intellectual pygmy he was on his way out as FG leader before FF's implosion handed him a life line.

There are only about 3 seriously anti-North posters here. The others are just taking the Mick.

And of the  you can't really take MGHU & Mike Sheehy as representative of the rest of us.

Disliking Adams has nothing to do with where he is from geographically, it is where he is from historically. He was the face we grew up watching after every IRA bombing. All of them I disagreed with, despite that some of them I could understand and some I was totally horrified by. But all of them had Gerry smugly refusing to condemn them.

He will have his supporters as he is entitled to have, but anyone in the Dail is perfectly entitled to ask him about his membership of the IRA. Because most of us want to hear him deny/admit it.

Hold your horses there Muppet, I'm not anti-the north, I don't like SF and dislike all the ROI bashing.

If ya want to single out someone who doesn't like the north surely you Laoislad is your man.

Also it's not me who is slagging off their accents.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 27, 2014, 10:19:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 27, 2014, 02:34:44 PM
Personally, I never warmed to Mary Lou much but she is highly capable all the same. Though in saying that, under Adams' leadership, SF has trebled it's support in one term, he's topped the poll in his constituency and despite a good eight weeks of Adams bashing in the media in their campaign to oust him, the very next poll in it's aftermath showed the party as being the only one to increase support and showed a slight increase in his own personal support. Long may he stick around.
How much of the growth of SF in the south do you credit to Adams' leadership and how much to the collapse of FF? Is it the same with Kenny and the current strength of FG? In spite of the leaders rather than because of them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: laoislad on January 27, 2014, 10:35:06 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 09:58:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 27, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Gerry grates on me too. But I have to say some of the small minded anti northern attitudes displayed here in answers are sad. I don't think he has a great personality, but I would concede that he is an astute and clever politician. Any doubts I have as to his ability to lead SF are all predicated on how he is portrayed in the media, his position on the IRA and his role there in and the knock on effect it has on his credability. Kenny's answer doesn't surprise me an intellectual pygmy he was on his way out as FG leader before FF's implosion handed him a life line.

There are only about 3 seriously anti-North posters here. The others are just taking the Mick.

And of the  you can't really take MGHU & Mike Sheehy as representative of the rest of us.

Disliking Adams has nothing to do with where he is from geographically, it is where he is from historically. He was the face we grew up watching after every IRA bombing. All of them I disagreed with, despite that some of them I could understand and some I was totally horrified by. But all of them had Gerry smugly refusing to condemn them.

He will have his supporters as he is entitled to have, but anyone in the Dail is perfectly entitled to ask him about his membership of the IRA. Because most of us want to hear him deny/admit it.

Hold your horses there Muppet, I'm not anti-the north, I don't like SF and dislike all the ROI bashing.

If ya want to single out someone who doesn't like the north surely you Laoislad is your man.

Also it's not me who is slagging off their accents.

Nonsense!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 27, 2014, 11:29:43 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 27, 2014, 10:35:06 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 09:58:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 27, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Gerry grates on me too. But I have to say some of the small minded anti northern attitudes displayed here in answers are sad. I don't think he has a great personality, but I would concede that he is an astute and clever politician. Any doubts I have as to his ability to lead SF are all predicated on how he is portrayed in the media, his position on the IRA and his role there in and the knock on effect it has on his credability. Kenny's answer doesn't surprise me an intellectual pygmy he was on his way out as FG leader before FF's implosion handed him a life line.

There are only about 3 seriously anti-North posters here. The others are just taking the Mick.

And of the  you can't really take MGHU & Mike Sheehy as representative of the rest of us.

Disliking Adams has nothing to do with where he is from geographically, it is where he is from historically. He was the face we grew up watching after every IRA bombing. All of them I disagreed with, despite that some of them I could understand and some I was totally horrified by. But all of them had Gerry smugly refusing to condemn them.

He will have his supporters as he is entitled to have, but anyone in the Dail is perfectly entitled to ask him about his membership of the IRA. Because most of us want to hear him deny/admit it.

Hold your horses there Muppet, I'm not anti-the north, I don't like SF and dislike all the ROI bashing.

If ya want to single out someone who doesn't like the north surely you Laoislad is your man.

Also it's not me who is slagging off their accents.

Nonsense!

I would put LL firmly in the taking the Mick category.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 27, 2014, 11:32:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 27, 2014, 07:02:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
but anyone in the Dail is perfectly entitled to ask him about his membership of the IRA. Because most of us want to hear him deny/admit it.

Of course he is entitled to be asked on it. But when he is trying to represent his constituents on issues nothing what-so-ever to do with the the IRA, then Enda Kenny's persistent childish jibes are nothing more than a two fingered salute to Adam's constituents and a cowardly get-out clause when asked uncomfortable questions about so many much more modern and pressing issues than Gerry Adams' past. And I really don't think "most" people "want to hear him deny/admit it". I think most people have their mind made up on that long ago. I'd say only the Dublin media really cares. Well, the Dublin media, and those who have their entire thought process led/dictated by it.

Two can play at the twisting the mandate game.

For example:

What about Adams two fingered salute to those who want to know whether he was in the IRA or not? They would include Kenny's constituents and many others, even some beyond the easy scapegoats loik da D4 meejah.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 11:32:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 27, 2014, 07:02:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
but anyone in the Dail is perfectly entitled to ask him about his membership of the IRA. Because most of us want to hear him deny/admit it.

Of course he is entitled to be asked on it. But when he is trying to represent his constituents on issues nothing what-so-ever to do with the the IRA, then Enda Kenny's persistent childish jibes are nothing more than a two fingered salute to Adam's constituents and a cowardly get-out clause when asked uncomfortable questions about so many much more modern and pressing issues than Gerry Adams' past. And I really don't think "most" people "want to hear him deny/admit it". I think most people have their mind made up on that long ago. I'd say only the Dublin media really cares. Well, the Dublin media, and those who have their entire thought process led/dictated by it.

Two can play at the twisting the mandate game.

For example:

What about Adams two fingered salute to those who want to know whether he was in the IRA or not? They would include Kenny's constituents and many others, even some beyond the easy scapegoats loik da D4 meejah.
You said "most want to hear him deny/admit it". He has denied it. Thousands of times. So denials isn't what those you refer to are interested in. They want to hear an admittance because they don't believe him. Yet if they are so content within themselves that he was in the IRA, then what difference does it make to them what Adams says? The media are not just "easy scapegoats" in that regard. They are the ones who both start and then fixate on that particular bandwagon every now and again. A bandwagon that the same few numpties, including the spoofer of a Taoiseach, will always obediently hop onto when it comes by. If Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested. Martin McGuinness served his time and was free to admit having been a member. Did it make one iota of difference to anyone to hear him say what everyone had decided to have been true themselves years before? No. There are more important things in the world. The current scandal at the CRC is the perfect example. A month before it hit the headlines, Adams challenged the Taoiseach on state agency pensions and voiced the view that people need to know what happens "to the money they give to charity", and yet what was the response of An Taoiseach only another sorry old "yeah but were you in the IRA Gerry?" A pathetic example of "leadership" from a man who on many's another night, (perhaps on the occasion of a British Head of State's visit), would pontificate to us all about the need to leave the past behind. Meanwhile, Paul Kiely sits with €742,000 of a pension while research points to 97% of Irish charities believing that the CRC scandal has damaged public trust in charities, with 54% believing such damage may be permanent. But sure more to the point, "were you in the IRA Gerry?"  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2014, 12:33:32 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 11:32:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 27, 2014, 07:02:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
but anyone in the Dail is perfectly entitled to ask him about his membership of the IRA. Because most of us want to hear him deny/admit it.

Of course he is entitled to be asked on it. But when he is trying to represent his constituents on issues nothing what-so-ever to do with the the IRA, then Enda Kenny's persistent childish jibes are nothing more than a two fingered salute to Adam's constituents and a cowardly get-out clause when asked uncomfortable questions about so many much more modern and pressing issues than Gerry Adams' past. And I really don't think "most" people "want to hear him deny/admit it". I think most people have their mind made up on that long ago. I'd say only the Dublin media really cares. Well, the Dublin media, and those who have their entire thought process led/dictated by it.

Two can play at the twisting the mandate game.

For example:

What about Adams two fingered salute to those who want to know whether he was in the IRA or not? They would include Kenny's constituents and many others, even some beyond the easy scapegoats loik da D4 meejah.
You said "most want to hear him deny/admit it". He has denied it. Thousands of times. So denials isn't what those you refer to are interested in. They want to hear an admittance because they don't believe him. Yet if they are so content within themselves that he was in the IRA, then what difference does it make to them what Adams says? The media are not just "easy scapegoats" in that regard. They are the ones who both start and then fixate on that particular bandwagon every now and again. A bandwagon that the same few numpties, including the spoofer of a Taoiseach, will always obediently hop onto when it comes by. If Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested. Martin McGuinness served his time and was free to admit having been a member. Did it make one iota of difference to anyone to hear him say what everyone had decided to have been true themselves years before? No. There are more important things in the world. The current scandal at the CRC is the perfect example. A month before it hit the headlines, Adams challenged the Taoiseach on state agency pensions and voiced the view that people need to know what happens "to the money they give to charity", and yet what was the response of An Taoiseach only another sorry old "yeah but were you in the IRA Gerry?" A pathetic example of "leadership" from a man who on many's another night, (perhaps on the occasion of a British Head of State's visit), would pontificate to us all about the need to leave the past behind. Meanwhile, Paul Kiely sits with €742,000 of a pension while research points to 97% of Irish charities believing that the CRC scandal has damaged public trust in charities, with 54% believing such damage may be permanent. But sure more to the point, "were you in the IRA Gerry?"  ::)

I may be paraphrasing you but: "He has denied it. Thousands of times." and then "If Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested."

Are you suggesting this may be a motive to deny telling the truth?

As for the media, your post sounds a lot like Lance Armstrong's supporters used to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 28, 2014, 08:56:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 27, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 27, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Gerry grates on me too. But I have to say some of the small minded anti northern attitudes displayed here in answers are sad. I don't think he has a great personality, but I would concede that he is an astute and clever politician. Any doubts I have as to his ability to lead SF are all predicated on how he is portrayed in the media, his position on the IRA and his role there in and the knock on effect it has on his credability. Kenny's answer doesn't surprise me an intellectual pygmy he was on his way out as FG leader before FF's implosion handed him a life line.

There are only about 3 seriously anti-North posters here. The others are just taking the Mick.

And of the  you can't really take MGHU & Mike Sheehy as representative of the rest of us.

Disliking Adams has nothing to do with where he is from geographically, it is where he is from historically. He was the face we grew up watching after every IRA bombing. All of them I disagreed with, despite that some of them I could understand and some I was totally horrified by. But all of them had Gerry smugly refusing to condemn them.

He will have his supporters as he is entitled to have, but anyone in the Dail is perfectly entitled to ask him about his membership of the IRA. Because most of us want to hear him deny/admit it.
What I am saying is that inspite of my not liking him I acept and give him credit for his astutness and ability. At the end of the day Kenny like the rest of us signed up to the GFA and his answer to Adams was crass and avoided the actual question. It's a bit like your dads fatter than mine, not the behaviour of a statesman, but then Kenny is no statesman.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 28, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
I actually agree with Nally here, the responses of Enda Kenny (and others) to serious questions that affect the daily lives of people on the South with the pretty childish "You were in the IRA" reminds me of the unionist head in the sand attitude of the 80s and 90s when, when faced with a difficult question, they used to respond "I'm not going to sit here and be lectured by a bomber".  Yes there are times when Adams history is relevant in a Dail debate but it's a bit tiresome to hear it used to get out of an awkward corner.

To be fair on the board I take vast majority of the anti-North/anti-South thing as a bit of tongue in cheek banter (I'm convinced lawnseed is a WUM).  I spend a lot of time in the South with my work and I'd say I've faced genuine anti-Northern sentiment twice or possibly three times in the past 6-7 years.  I've come across genuine anti-Southern sentiment from northern nationalists/republicans far more...and then of course there are my unionist friends!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 09:37:19 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 27, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Gerry grates on me too. But I have to say some of the small minded anti northern attitudes displayed here in answers are sad. I don't think he has a great personality, but I would concede that he is an astute and clever politician. Any doubts I have as to his ability to lead SF are all predicated on how he is portrayed in the media, his position on the IRA and his role there in and the knock on effect it has on his credability. Kenny's answer doesn't surprise me an intellectual pygmy he was on his way out as FG leader before FF's implosion handed him a life line.

You haven't noticed all the anti-ROI/26 threads and posts on this board, they appear regularly, "the Rotten Republic" is the latest abuse from the north. O and there was Fuzzmans ranting thread that came and went like the wind.
I notice you declined to defend the actions of the fukr refered to in the rotten thread just tried to deflect the light that was pointed in your direction. Because you cant defend it. No matter when we take over we'll fix it for you and then you might be able to come home
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on January 28, 2014, 10:14:33 AM
Enda Kenny has made a total arse of himself with his what-about-Jean-McConville routine. It's embarrassing to see the holder of the office of Tasoiseach react in such a childish way.

However, his behaviour tells us everything about Enda Kenny and nothing about Gerry Adams. There's no doubt (not in my mind anyway) that the manner in which Gerry Adams held the Shinners together in the agonisingly long transition from the Long War to the current situation was a sign of great leadership and took no little political skill. However, I feel the skills that were useful then are no longer useful now. To bring the movement along took a high degree of democratic centralism where decisions were made at the highest level by Adams and his closest colleagues and the rest of the party were expected to toe the line. Great when dealing with the weighty constitutional issues of the time, not so great when confronted with the trivia of everyday politics. Faced with a situation where a Sinn Féin figure makes an arse of themselves, the default reaction of just about every Shinner is not to say the person is making an arse of themselves but that it hardly reflects on the party as a whole (note that you won't have any problem finding a member of Fine Gael who would be irritated by Enda's juvenile behaviour). Even though this would be a perfectly reasonable reaction, instead we get a mantra about how The Party will no doubt investigate and dispense Justice accordingly, and/or to shoot the messenger. The inability of Shinners to think outside the box is downright creepy at times, and is going to hold back the party from making any further electoral inroads. NB having one in five of the voters after the economic troubles of recent years and the implosion of Fianna Fáil is not something to brag about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 28, 2014, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 09:37:19 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 27, 2014, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 27, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Gerry grates on me too. But I have to say some of the small minded anti northern attitudes displayed here in answers are sad. I don't think he has a great personality, but I would concede that he is an astute and clever politician. Any doubts I have as to his ability to lead SF are all predicated on how he is portrayed in the media, his position on the IRA and his role there in and the knock on effect it has on his credability. Kenny's answer doesn't surprise me an intellectual pygmy he was on his way out as FG leader before FF's implosion handed him a life line.

You haven't noticed all the anti-ROI/26 threads and posts on this board, they appear regularly, "the Rotten Republic" is the latest abuse from the north. O and there was Fuzzmans ranting thread that came and went like the wind.
I notice you declined to defend the actions of the fukr refered to in the rotten thread just tried to deflect the light that was pointed in your direction. Because you cant defend it. No matter when we take over we'll fix it for you and then you might be able to come home
Not sure of the point you are making here. But I challenge you to show me one thread where I have posted Anti-Southern sentiment. To be clear I am anti partition, whether that comes from North or South and I will challenge accordingly. I don't hold with any "rotten republic" nonsense. The treatment of Adams by some especially politicians is in stark consequence to the Southern people we have had in politics in the north, Farren, Rodgers, De Brun, McDevitt and even Dev. The comment from so called nationalists chimes with the DUP's referral to Conal as the "mouth from the south"...good company for Enda & Co.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on January 28, 2014, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2014, 10:35:18 AM
Not sure of the point you are making here. But I challenge you to show me one thread where I have posted Anti-Southern sentiment. To be clear I am anti partition, whether that comes from North or South and I will challenge accordingly. I don't hold with any "rotten republic" nonsense. The treatment of Adams by some especially politicians is in stark consequence to the Southern people we have had in politics in the north, Farren, Rodgers, De Brun, McDevitt and even Dev. The comment from so called nationalists chimes with the DUP's referral to Conal as the "mouth from the south"...good company for Enda & Co.

Well said. I'm sure on an individual level it is not to be taken too seriously, but the race to the bottom to see who can lay claim to the true spirit of Erin that takes place here on a regular basis became tiresome a long time ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2014, 02:21:16 PM
Quote from: deiseach on January 28, 2014, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2014, 10:35:18 AM
Not sure of the point you are making here. But I challenge you to show me one thread where I have posted Anti-Southern sentiment. To be clear I am anti partition, whether that comes from North or South and I will challenge accordingly. I don't hold with any "rotten republic" nonsense. The treatment of Adams by some especially politicians is in stark consequence to the Southern people we have had in politics in the north, Farren, Rodgers, De Brun, McDevitt and even Dev. The comment from so called nationalists chimes with the DUP's referral to Conal as the "mouth from the south"...good company for Enda & Co.

Well said. I'm sure on an individual level it is not to be taken too seriously, but the race to the bottom to see who can lay claim to the true spirit of Erin that takes place here on a regular basis became tiresome a long time ago.

Wait for the build up to the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising.

Personally I think all of the parties could do with new leadership.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on January 28, 2014, 03:35:29 PM
Quote from: deiseach on January 28, 2014, 10:14:33 AM
Enda Kenny has made a total arse of himself with his what-about-Jean-McConville routine. It's embarrassing to see the holder of the office of Tasoiseach react in such a childish way.

However, his behaviour tells us everything about Enda Kenny and nothing about Gerry Adams. There's no doubt (not in my mind anyway) that the manner in which Gerry Adams held the Shinners together in the agonisingly long transition from the Long War to the current situation was a sign of great leadership and took no little political skill. However, I feel the skills that were useful then are no longer useful now. To bring the movement along took a high degree of democratic centralism where decisions were made at the highest level by Adams and his closest colleagues and the rest of the party were expected to toe the line. Great when dealing with the weighty constitutional issues of the time, not so great when confronted with the trivia of everyday politics. Faced with a situation where a Sinn Féin figure makes an arse of themselves, the default reaction of just about every Shinner is not to say the person is making an arse of themselves but that it hardly reflects on the party as a whole (note that you won't have any problem finding a member of Fine Gael who would be irritated by Enda's juvenile behaviour). Even though this would be a perfectly reasonable reaction, instead we get a mantra about how The Party will no doubt investigate and dispense Justice accordingly, and/or to shoot the messenger. The inability of Shinners to think outside the box is downright creepy at times, and is going to hold back the party from making any further electoral inroads. NB having one in five of the voters after the economic troubles of recent years and the implosion of Fianna Fáil is not something to brag about.

I'd agree with most of that.

Gerry was a very good leader bringing Sinn Fein in from the cold and some of the crap he had said to him on some talk shows was unreal (Gay Byrne and RTÉ's ambush included). To hold his cool in such times was unreal and showed his ability to rise above the shíte and portray the republican cause in the North in a good light when all and sundry wanted to tarnish them was no mean feat.

That was then and this is now.

He's fed his ego and sits in the Daíl, but now its time to step aside and bring Sinn Fein the next step into normal politics especially in the South, but its hard to see a single true candidate for that role having leverage in the little 6 and 26 at the same time.
Marty might like a go at the big gig, but I think he'd not make any great inroads in the south, similar to Gerry. Mary Lou or Pearse Doherty may garner a few wavering votes in the South but its hard to see what they'd offer the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 28, 2014, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: deiseach on January 28, 2014, 10:14:33 AM
Enda Kenny has made a total arse of himself with his what-about-Jean-McConville routine. It's embarrassing to see the holder of the office of Tasoiseach react in such a childish way.

However, his behaviour tells us everything about Enda Kenny and nothing about Gerry Adams. There's no doubt (not in my mind anyway) that the manner in which Gerry Adams held the Shinners together in the agonisingly long transition from the Long War to the current situation was a sign of great leadership and took no little political skill. However, I feel the skills that were useful then are no longer useful now. To bring the movement along took a high degree of democratic centralism where decisions were made at the highest level by Adams and his closest colleagues and the rest of the party were expected to toe the line. Great when dealing with the weighty constitutional issues of the time, not so great when confronted with the trivia of everyday politics. Faced with a situation where a Sinn Féin figure makes an arse of themselves, the default reaction of just about every Shinner is not to say the person is making an arse of themselves but that it hardly reflects on the party as a whole (note that you won't have any problem finding a member of Fine Gael who would be irritated by Enda's juvenile behaviour). Even though this would be a perfectly reasonable reaction, instead we get a mantra about how The Party will no doubt investigate and dispense Justice accordingly, and/or to shoot the messenger. The inability of Shinners to think outside the box is downright creepy at times, and is going to hold back the party from making any further electoral inroads. NB having one in five of the voters after the economic troubles of recent years and the implosion of Fianna Fáil is not something to brag about.

This is pretty much spot on deiseach.  Adams is strong on the politics of revolution and to be fair he and McGuinness could not afford the traditional split in republicanism otherwise the Peace Process would have been bolloxed and it would have been portrayed as republicans' fault.  The reason he did well on the LLS and other programmes in the 90s was that he was very comfortable on the subject they were discussing, he knew far more about it than Gaybo or Hugh Leonard!

But as I posted somewhere else on the board I don't see him as a peace time leader.  His grasp of "normal" national politics comes across as weak and ill-informed.  He would probably make a very good local constituency based "back bench" TD.  However I think he'll stick around until 2016. 

2016 and all that should be good craic on the board.  Prepare for threads to self combust!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 28, 2014, 05:45:00 PM
Quote2016 and all that should be good craic on the board.  Prepare for threads to self combust!

Will he deliver All Ireland government by 2016, as suggested? Or even All Ireland phone roaming as a down payment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2014, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 28, 2014, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: deiseach on January 28, 2014, 10:14:33 AM
Enda Kenny has made a total arse of himself with his what-about-Jean-McConville routine. It's embarrassing to see the holder of the office of Tasoiseach react in such a childish way.

However, his behaviour tells us everything about Enda Kenny and nothing about Gerry Adams. There's no doubt (not in my mind anyway) that the manner in which Gerry Adams held the Shinners together in the agonisingly long transition from the Long War to the current situation was a sign of great leadership and took no little political skill. However, I feel the skills that were useful then are no longer useful now. To bring the movement along took a high degree of democratic centralism where decisions were made at the highest level by Adams and his closest colleagues and the rest of the party were expected to toe the line. Great when dealing with the weighty constitutional issues of the time, not so great when confronted with the trivia of everyday politics. Faced with a situation where a Sinn Féin figure makes an arse of themselves, the default reaction of just about every Shinner is not to say the person is making an arse of themselves but that it hardly reflects on the party as a whole (note that you won't have any problem finding a member of Fine Gael who would be irritated by Enda's juvenile behaviour). Even though this would be a perfectly reasonable reaction, instead we get a mantra about how The Party will no doubt investigate and dispense Justice accordingly, and/or to shoot the messenger. The inability of Shinners to think outside the box is downright creepy at times, and is going to hold back the party from making any further electoral inroads. NB having one in five of the voters after the economic troubles of recent years and the implosion of Fianna Fáil is not something to brag about.

This is pretty much spot on deiseach.  Adams is strong on the politics of revolution and to be fair he and McGuinness could not afford the traditional split in republicanism otherwise the Peace Process would have been bolloxed and it would have been portrayed as republicans' fault.  The reason he did well on the LLS and other programmes in the 90s was that he was very comfortable on the subject they were discussing, he knew far more about it than Gaybo or Hugh Leonard!

But as I posted somewhere else on the board I don't see him as a peace time leader.  His grasp of "normal" national politics comes across as weak and ill-informed.  He would probably make a very good local constituency based "back bench" TD.  However I think he'll stick around until 2016. 

2016 and all that should be good craic on the board.  Prepare for threads to self combust!

One of the problems is he is the only leader from the pre-GFA days left.

It begins to look like it is all about him, just like we always knew it was all about Paisley.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 05:52:52 PM
The gimp wont face him in a one to one debate anyhow weak and all as ger is
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2014, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 05:52:52 PM
The gimp wont face him in a one to one debate anyhow weak and all as ger is

You don't debate with anyone either.

You just rant endlessly.

I can see why you admire Paisley.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2014, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 05:52:52 PM
The gimp wont face him in a one to one debate anyhow weak and all as ger is

You don't debate with anyone either.

You just rant endlessly.

I can see why you admire Paisley.
Oh i'm sorry was I ranting about traitors again. You dont find that type of thing topical at the moment?
Im searching for a speck of decency in irish public life something to cling to in a tsunami of shite feel free to highlight that speck should you find it. So far its ming pot head who donates some of his tds salary to good causes.. Hes top of the pile
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 28, 2014, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2014, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 05:52:52 PM
The gimp wont face him in a one to one debate anyhow weak and all as ger is

You don't debate with anyone either.

You just rant endlessly.

I can see why you admire Paisley.
Oh i'm sorry was I ranting about traitors again. You dont find that type of thing topical at the moment?
Im searching for a speck of decency in irish public life something to cling to in a tsunami of shite feel free to highlight that speck should you find it. So far its ming pot head who donates some of his tds salary to good causes.. Hes top of the pile
Brendan Griffin TD (FG) donates half his salary to employ a primary school teacher in Kerry. If that's your measure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 28, 2014, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2014, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 05:52:52 PM
The gimp wont face him in a one to one debate anyhow weak and all as ger is

You don't debate with anyone either.

You just rant endlessly.

I can see why you admire Paisley.
Oh i'm sorry was I ranting about traitors again. You dont find that type of thing topical at the moment?
Im searching for a speck of decency in irish public life something to cling to in a tsunami of shite feel free to highlight that speck should you find it. So far its ming pot head who donates some of his tds salary to good causes.. Hes top of the pile
Brendan Griffin TD (FG) donates half his salary to employ a primary school teacher in Kerry. If that's your measure.
why does he have to do that? if he said the teacher was in fact a consultant hey presto. does the teacher work for him or for the education board?? there's something not right there
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 28, 2014, 11:31:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 28, 2014, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2014, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 05:52:52 PM
The gimp wont face him in a one to one debate anyhow weak and all as ger is

You don't debate with anyone either.

You just rant endlessly.

I can see why you admire Paisley.
Oh i'm sorry was I ranting about traitors again. You dont find that type of thing topical at the moment?
Im searching for a speck of decency in irish public life something to cling to in a tsunami of shite feel free to highlight that speck should you find it. So far its ming pot head who donates some of his tds salary to good causes.. Hes top of the pile
Brendan Griffin TD (FG) donates half his salary to employ a primary school teacher in Kerry. If that's your measure.
It certainly was a noble gesture by any standards but maybe there's more to this story than meets the eye. All serving teachers who get elected to the Dail may continue to to draw their teacher's salary and are only obliged to pay their replacement the going rate for temporary teachers.
There could be a considerable difference there and the teacher can pocket whatever is left after paying the sub. Furthermore, if for any reason the teachers leave Dail Eireann, they can walk back into their old jobs and the sub loses out.
Temps don't get holiday pay or, AFAIK, any allowances for posts of responsibility while teachers continue to move up the incremental pay scale as if they were still employed in the schools they had taught in.
Enda Kenny is the only TD I  know of who gave up his unearned salary and only did this when he became the leader of his party. It wasn't a voluntary gesture either as he was coming under public pressure to do so.
Maybe Griffin did likewise but I think I would have heard of it if he did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 28, 2014, 11:45:18 PM
I think Griffin deserves credit for his gesture, even though this kind of thing is not the way forward.
http://www.thejournal.ie/brendan-griffin-kerry-fybough-national-school-499297-Jun2012/

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 29, 2014, 12:07:25 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 28, 2014, 11:31:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 28, 2014, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2014, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 05:52:52 PM
The gimp wont face him in a one to one debate anyhow weak and all as ger is

You don't debate with anyone either.

You just rant endlessly.

I can see why you admire Paisley.
Oh i'm sorry was I ranting about traitors again. You dont find that type of thing topical at the moment?
Im searching for a speck of decency in irish public life something to cling to in a tsunami of shite feel free to highlight that speck should you find it. So far its ming pot head who donates some of his tds salary to good causes.. Hes top of the pile
Brendan Griffin TD (FG) donates half his salary to employ a primary school teacher in Kerry. If that's your measure.
It certainly was a noble gesture by any standards but maybe there's more to this story than meets the eye. All serving teachers who get elected to the Dail may continue to to draw their teacher's salary and are only obliged to pay their replacement the going rate for temporary teachers.
There could be a considerable difference there and the teacher can pocket whatever is left after paying the sub. Furthermore, if for any reason the teachers leave Dail Eireann, they can walk back into their old jobs and the sub loses out.
Temps don't get holiday pay or, AFAIK, any allowances for posts of responsibility while teachers continue to move up the incremental pay scale as if they were still employed in the schools they had taught in.
Enda Kenny is the only TD I  know of who gave up his unearned salary and only did this when he became the leader of his party. It wasn't a voluntary gesture either as he was coming under public pressure to do so.
Maybe Griffin did likewise but I think I would have heard of it if he did.
I knew I smelt a rat
so he continues to get teacher pay increments even though he not actually teaching and paints himself as a goody goody in the process.. money well spent I'd say. why doesn't he try the average industrial wage for a year or two and give the rest to something else
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 29, 2014, 12:11:49 AM
QuoteI knew I smelt a rat
so he continues to get teacher pay increments even though he not actually teaching and paints himself as a goody goody in the process.. money well spent I'd say. why doesn't he try the average industrial wage for a year or two and give the rest to something else

Is there any evidence that Brendan Griffin was ever a teacher? If he wasn't a teacher how could he get increments?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 29, 2014, 09:14:52 AM
Doesnt appear to have been a teacher but maybe has other reasons for this.

Brendan Griffin (born March 1982) is an Irish Fine Gael politician.[1][2] A former publican, he was elected as a Teachta Dála (TD) for the Kerry South constituency at the 2011 general election.[3]

Griffin is a former member of Kerry County Council representing the Dingle area from 2009 to 2011. He was the subject of controversy for hiring his wife Róisín as his secretarial assistant and his cousin Tommy Griffin as his parliamentary assistant. Both these positions were filled without interview and have salaries paid for by the state. In addition, Griffin helped another cousin, Matt Griffin, get his old council seat.[4] He takes half of his TD salary, at first giving the other half directly back to the exchequer and then in 2012 for donating this other half of his salary to pay for a third teacher in a small rural Kerry school.[5]

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail. Up the Provos :)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_foJ2edyf5BE/TUByrBhr7vI/AAAAAAAADnw/eqFBZjQ5tBU/s1600/%2527Yeah-up%2Byours%2521%2527.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.

This SF attitude of the faithful is why SF will never make proper inroads 8n the Republic, the Provos are as despised as the Loyalist terror groups and drug gangs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 29, 2014, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.

This SF attitude of the faithful is why SF will never make proper inroads 8n the Republic, the Provos are as despised as the Loyalist terror groups and drug gangs.

would be surprised if Johnny Adair or the Monk would have topped the poll on Louth.but you might be right ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: shawshank on January 29, 2014, 01:36:14 PM
lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 29, 2014, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.

This SF attitude of the faithful is why SF will never make proper inroads 8n the Republic, the Provos are as despised as the Loyalist terror groups and drug gangs.

would be surprised if Johnny Adair or the Monk would have topped the poll on Louth.but you might be right ::)

Louth is full of blow ins from the North, with views more consistent with north of the border.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on January 29, 2014, 03:15:04 PM
I remember watching RTÉ news and their current affairs back in the pre-ceasfire days and it was a WTF moment for me, they were peddling the British government propaganda almost as much if not better than BBC and ITV could have managed.

Then you've the print media of the Sindo with Ruth Dudley Edwards, Conor Cruise O'Brien and the lot printing lies one sunday after the next, unchallenged to the masses.

It's hardly surprising Enda has a very black and white view of what happened in the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on January 29, 2014, 04:50:13 PM


Louth is full of blow ins from the North, with views more consistent with north of the border.
[/quote]

Ye haven't a clue what your talking about
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 04:50:39 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 29, 2014, 03:15:04 PM
I remember watching RTÉ news and their current affairs back in the pre-ceasfire days and it was a WTF moment for me, they were peddling the British government propaganda almost as much if not better than BBC and ITV could have managed.

Then you've the print media of the Sindo with Ruth Dudley Edwards, Conor Cruise O'Brien and the lot printing lies one sunday after the next, unchallenged to the masses.

It's hardly surprising Enda has a very black and white view of what happened in the north.

Indeed. The dictatorship style Section 31 was in force until 1993 and was used and abused with gusto by the media.

This link makes some good points.
http://www.academia.edu/166361/How_RTE_censored_its_censorship (http://www.academia.edu/166361/How_RTE_censored_its_censorship)

It notes that on the announcement of the Hume/Adams document, RTE's Brian Dobson announced that John Hume was unavailable for interview since he was in the US. The article then goes on..."but what of Adams? Was the audience told that although the other end of this political double act was physically available, RTE could not interview him either? No they were not. Adams remained a non-person in a story named after him for two whole weeks". The article also tells of how RTE was ruled by the Supreme Court of having acted illegally by using Section 31 as an excuse to prevent Larry O'Toole (SF) of speaking on an industrial dispute he was involved in and was a spokesperson for, and on RTE's appeal, delcared in court that it would not allow a SF voice actor to advertise a bar of soap, had they a say. The article lifts a quote from a US newspaper of the time as follows, "We are astonished that RTE, instead of welcoming this liberal interpretation of an abhorrent censorship statute, is asking the Irish Supreme Court for a greater restriction of it's free-speech rights". The article also refers to Mary McAleese's autobiography in which she referred to "the unfortunate Forbes McFaul being denounced as a "f**king provo" after he broadcast an objective account of the growth in nationalist support for the hunger strikers". Anyone who didn't toe the line "were sent to agriculture, children's or religious broadcasting".

Of course it wasn't just an RTÉ driven thing. When the Irish Press published an article about maltreatment of Republican prisoners, the coalition FG/Lab government attempted (unsuccessfully) to prosecute them.

One arsehole on this board some time back informed me that he was well qualified to speak on the troubles for no other reason than because he heard about it on the news in the south. It's honestly amazing that some of those who grew up under such draconian state censorship honestly think they are in a position to lecture.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 29, 2014, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 29, 2014, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.

This SF attitude of the faithful is why SF will never make proper inroads 8n the Republic, the Provos are as despised as the Loyalist terror groups and drug gangs.

would be surprised if Johnny Adair or the Monk would have topped the poll on Louth.but you might be right ::)

Louth is full of blow ins from the North, with views more consistent with north of the border.

I looked this up the time of the 2006 census and it memory serves me right I think the population of Louth who were born in the North was somewhere round 5% - 6%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on January 29, 2014, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 29, 2014, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 29, 2014, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.

This SF attitude of the faithful is why SF will never make proper inroads 8n the Republic, the Provos are as despised as the Loyalist terror groups and drug gangs.

would be surprised if Johnny Adair or the Monk would have topped the poll on Louth.but you might be right ::)

Louth is full of blow ins from the North, with views more consistent with north of the border.

I looked this up the time of the 2006 census and it memory serves me right I think the population of Louth who were born in the North was somewhere round 5% - 6%.

Don't be silly "Mayo the Indo "tells us they are all from the North so your census is wrong
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on January 29, 2014, 05:30:39 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 29, 2014, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 29, 2014, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.

This SF attitude of the faithful is why SF will never make proper inroads 8n the Republic, the Provos are as despised as the Loyalist terror groups and drug gangs.

would be surprised if Johnny Adair or the Monk would have topped the poll on Louth.but you might be right ::)

Louth is full of blow ins from the North, with views more consistent with north of the border.

I looked this up the time of the 2006 census and it memory serves me right I think the population of Louth who were born in the North was somewhere round 5% - 6%.

Yep and most of those are real Louth people who are availing of the better healthcare just up the road in Newry.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 05:34:26 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on January 29, 2014, 05:30:39 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 29, 2014, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 29, 2014, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.

This SF attitude of the faithful is why SF will never make proper inroads 8n the Republic, the Provos are as despised as the Loyalist terror groups and drug gangs.

would be surprised if Johnny Adair or the Monk would have topped the poll on Louth.but you might be right ::)

Louth is full of blow ins from the North, with views more consistent with north of the border.

I looked this up the time of the 2006 census and it memory serves me right I think the population of Louth who were born in the North was somewhere round 5% - 6%.

Yep and most of those are real Louth people who are availing of the better healthcare just up the road in Newry.

Surely their % of the electorate would be significantly higher than their % of the general population. I hazard to guess close on 90-100% of folk from across the border voted Gerry, while the native Louth and blowins from Meath and Dublin vote would have been split.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 29, 2014, 05:49:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 04:50:39 PM
One arsehole on this board some time back informed me that he was well qualified to speak on the troubles for no other reason than because he heard about it on the news in the south. It's honestly amazing that some of those who grew up under such draconian state censorship honestly think they are in a position to lecture.

This logic would disqualify some of you from lecturing on any issue in the South, but it sure doesn't stop people the likes of Lawnseed.

The censorship was idiotic and a complete violation of a basic right to free speech. The TV stations made it even more idiotic by using an actors voice. Thus the farcical appearance that it was Adams' voice that was offensive, not what he had to say.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on January 29, 2014, 05:58:37 PM
I see Martin McGuinness has defied the party once more by publicly supporting Caterpillar today. What a hypocrite, and what an insult to his party members who passed the motion at the Ard Fheis to boycott Caterpillar. As George Orwell so rightly put it "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/press-feed/ministers-welcome-caterpillar-expansion-29961986.html

"The deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness said: "The First Minister and I met with Senior Executives in Caterpillar as part of our trade mission to the US in October 2013. During this meeting we reinforced our commitment to work closely with Caterpillar to protect existing jobs and identify areas of possible expansion.

"This further investment by Caterpillar is good news for employees, the local economy and is a strong endorsement of what the north of Ireland has to offer. It confirms our position as an excellent investment location for global companies."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 29, 2014, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 29, 2014, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 29, 2014, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.

This SF attitude of the faithful is why SF will never make proper inroads 8n the Republic, the Provos are as despised as the Loyalist terror groups and drug gangs.

would be surprised if Johnny Adair or the Monk would have topped the poll on Louth.but you might be right ::)

Louth is full of blow ins from the North, with views more consistent with north of the border.

I looked this up the time of the 2006 census and it memory serves me right I think the population of Louth who were born in the North was somewhere round 5% - 6%.
plenty of blowins around Dundalk.. plenty of them from further afield than nordieland  :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 29, 2014, 10:59:46 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 29, 2014, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2014, 12:21:37 AMIf Adams admitted being in the IRA he would be arrested.

Of course Kenny's "were you in the IRA, Deputy Adams?" mantra is tiresome, but presenting this line of argument with a straight face always makes me laugh. It doesn't seem to occur to the faithful that it defeats the purpose of deifying Adams to present his motivation for lying as no different to that of any common criminal.

Most of "the faithful" don't regard a conviction for IRA membership as being a mark of a common criminal. If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail.

Point missed completely.
perhaps you could rephrase your point hardy. what is it that makes you laugh about a political representative asking a pertinent question on behalf of his constituent to the leader of the government and him trotting out a line that he has learned off by heart
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 30, 2014, 06:46:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2014, 05:49:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 04:50:39 PM
One arsehole on this board some time back informed me that he was well qualified to speak on the troubles for no other reason than because he heard about it on the news in the south. It's honestly amazing that some of those who grew up under such draconian state censorship honestly think they are in a position to lecture.

This logic would disqualify some of you from lecturing on any issue in the South, but it sure doesn't stop people the likes of Lawnseed.

The censorship was idiotic and a complete violation of a basic right to free speech. The TV stations made it even more idiotic by using an actors voice. Thus the farcical appearance that it was Adams' voice that was offensive, not what he had to say.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6UhXivPyw4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 30, 2014, 07:50:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 29, 2014, 11:31:50 AM
If Adams was in the IRA (and I'd be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been), then more power to him for staying out of jail. Up the Provos :)
Are there any particular IRA 'operations' where you'd "be very disappointed in him if he hadn't been" involved?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 09, 2014, 08:54:18 AM
Wexford.. ZR men.. Same old message vote for change. why bother?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 10, 2014, 08:16:40 PM
A new one on me...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgIG9-BCMAAh3tu.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2014, 08:33:47 PM
I wonder has he paid or the image rights for Garth, or has he used the Northern Bank approach?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 10, 2014, 09:14:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 10, 2014, 08:16:40 PM
A new one on me...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgIG9-BCMAAh3tu.jpg:large)


Mmmmmmmuuuussstttttttt resist blatantly obvious, grossly overused one-liner.............arrrggghhhhh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2014, 10:20:09 PM
Interesting bit on News tonight about an Exhibition on the "Disappeared" being held in Drogheda.
A wonder Lawnseed or some of the other Pro SF regulars hadn't a comment on it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 10, 2014, 11:32:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 10, 2014, 09:14:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 10, 2014, 08:16:40 PM
A new one on me...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgIG9-BCMAAh3tu.jpg:large)


Mmmmmmmuuuussstttttttt resist blatantly obvious, grossly overused one-liner.............arrrggghhhhh.
go on you might as well..  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 24, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
Gerry Kelly suing over Police Land Rover incident

Sinn Féin's Gerry Kelly is taking legal action against the chief constable over an incident where he was carried on the bonnet of a police Land Rover.

The incident in Carrick Hill last June followed the loyalist Tour of the North parade in Belfast

Sinn Féin said: "Gerry Kelly, in common with any other citizen, is entitled to access the courts when he believes he has been wronged."

Mr Kelly is taking a civil case against Matt Baggott.

A police officer has accepted a formal reprimand for his part in the incident.

In January, the MLA received the same sanction for clinging to the vehicle while attempting to stop it.

A person refusing to accept the "informed warning" can be prosecuted.

The Police Federation said the officer's warning was "unjustified".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26328299


I don't know what he hopes to achieve from this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on February 25, 2014, 12:32:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
Gerry Kelly suing over Police Land Rover incident

Sinn Féin's Gerry Kelly is taking legal action against the chief constable over an incident where he was carried on the bonnet of a police Land Rover.

The incident in Carrick Hill last June followed the loyalist Tour of the North parade in Belfast

Sinn Féin said: "Gerry Kelly, in common with any other citizen, is entitled to access the courts when he believes he has been wronged."

Mr Kelly is taking a civil case against Matt Baggott.

A police officer has accepted a formal reprimand for his part in the incident.

In January, the MLA received the same sanction for clinging to the vehicle while attempting to stop it.

A person refusing to accept the "informed warning" can be prosecuted.

The Police Federation said the officer's warning was "unjustified".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26328299


I don't know what he hopes to achieve from this.


Maybe get a few quid out of it or whatever.

Worth a try. He'd legal aid too seeing as he is on minimum wage despite the perks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on February 25, 2014, 12:42:36 AM
Gerry is just looking for an excuse to get to meet up with his fellow policing board members ......................
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 25, 2014, 09:24:19 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on February 25, 2014, 12:42:36 AM
Gerry is just looking for an excuse to get to meet up with his fellow policing board members ......................

;D ;D Everyone a gem Dixie,did it take you long to think that one up or is that the latest big joke going around the Cappagh area.Wise up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 07:18:54 AM
Quote from: orangeman on February 25, 2014, 12:32:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
Gerry Kelly suing over Police Land Rover incident

Sinn Féin's Gerry Kelly is taking legal action against the chief constable over an incident where he was carried on the bonnet of a police Land Rover.

The incident in Carrick Hill last June followed the loyalist Tour of the North parade in Belfast

Sinn Féin said: "Gerry Kelly, in common with any other citizen, is entitled to access the courts when he believes he has been wronged."

Mr Kelly is taking a civil case against Matt Baggott.

A police officer has accepted a formal reprimand for his part in the incident.

In January, the MLA received the same sanction for clinging to the vehicle while attempting to stop it.

A person refusing to accept the "informed warning" can be prosecuted.

The Police Federation said the officer's warning was "unjustified".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26328299


I don't know what he hopes to achieve from this.


Maybe get a few quid out of it or whatever.

Worth a try. He'd legal aid too seeing as he is on minimum wage despite the perks.
£45K isn't minimum wage, so we're unlikely to be paying for his legal representation. But we'll be footing the bill if he's successful,
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 26, 2014, 08:14:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 07:18:54 AM
Quote from: orangeman on February 25, 2014, 12:32:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
Gerry Kelly suing over Police Land Rover incident

Sinn Féin's Gerry Kelly is taking legal action against the chief constable over an incident where he was carried on the bonnet of a police Land Rover.

The incident in Carrick Hill last June followed the loyalist Tour of the North parade in Belfast

Sinn Féin said: "Gerry Kelly, in common with any other citizen, is entitled to access the courts when he believes he has been wronged."

Mr Kelly is taking a civil case against Matt Baggott.

A police officer has accepted a formal reprimand for his part in the incident.

In January, the MLA received the same sanction for clinging to the vehicle while attempting to stop it.

A person refusing to accept the "informed warning" can be prosecuted.

The Police Federation said the officer's warning was "unjustified".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26328299


I don't know what he hopes to achieve from this.


Maybe get a few quid out of it or whatever.

Worth a try. He'd legal aid too seeing as he is on minimum wage despite the perks.
£45K isn't minimum wage, so we're unlikely to be paying for his legal representation. But we'll be footing the bill if he's successful,
No sh*t. He's exercising his rights.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 09:17:57 AM
Absolutely, and i'd defend his right to do so. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Rights and responsibilities and all that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on February 26, 2014, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 09:17:57 AM
Absolutely, and i'd defend his right to do so. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Rights and responsibilities and all that.

dont rock the boat is the stoops way of thinking,but he is entitled to sue and so he should.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on February 26, 2014, 09:38:29 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 09:17:57 AM
Absolutely, and i'd defend his right to do so. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Rights and responsibilities and all that.
Maybe it is the right thing to do. That's not for you to decide.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 06:05:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 26, 2014, 09:38:29 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 09:17:57 AM
Absolutely, and i'd defend his right to do so. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Rights and responsibilities and all that.
Maybe it is the right thing to do. That's not for you to decide.
I didn't present my post as fact. It's a subjective point, surely?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 07:18:18 PM
Does anyone actually know the reason why he's suing? I'm no legal expert, so correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the point of taking civil action to seek redress? If so, redress for what? Was there an injury? A financial loss?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 10:41:21 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 26, 2014, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 09:17:57 AM
Absolutely, and i'd defend his right to do so. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Rights and responsibilities and all that.

dont rock the boat is the stoops way of thinking,but he is entitled to sue and so he should.
Some things are worth rocking the boat for. It may well be academic now as it's quite possible the boat is about to capsize.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 26, 2014, 10:51:51 PM
Quote from: glens abu on February 26, 2014, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 09:17:57 AM
Absolutely, and i'd defend his right to do so. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Rights and responsibilities and all that.

dont rock the boat is the stoops way of thinking,but he is entitled to sue and so he should.
Sue for what? I nearly got clipped crossing the road a few weeks ago. Can I claim off the driver for nearly being injured?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 27, 2014, 06:47:12 PM
So, apparently Gerry Kelly has dropped his civil action.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 28, 2014, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 27, 2014, 06:47:12 PM
So, apparently Gerry Kelly has dropped his civil action.
Good
Good!
Good?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 01, 2014, 10:58:22 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 28, 2014, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 27, 2014, 06:47:12 PM
So, apparently Gerry Kelly has dropped his civil action.
Good
Good!
Good?
Well of course it's good, but I don't believe for a minute that a man like Kelly, who appears reasonably intelligent, couldn't have foreseen the reasons he has given for dropping the case - "Issuing the writ seems to have increased local political tension and created an unwanted diversion from more pressing issues. So, in this instance I have decided not to pursue the case."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 01, 2014, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 01, 2014, 10:58:22 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 28, 2014, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 27, 2014, 06:47:12 PM
So, apparently Gerry Kelly has dropped his civil action.
Good
Good!
Good?
Well of course it's good, but I don't believe for a minute that a man like Kelly, who appears reasonably intelligent, couldn't have foreseen the reasons he has given for dropping the case - "Issuing the writ seems to have increased local political tension and created an unwanted diversion from more pressing issues. So, in this instance I have decided not to pursue the case."

It's best to avoid creating political tension.

This wee case could have turned out very very nasty.

Best to drop it and leave sleeping dogs lie.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 03, 2014, 10:13:47 PM
Who do you believe?

Sinn Féin Speak Out Of One Side Of Their Mouth At Home And Another To Their Wealthy Backers In The United States
Posted on March 3, 2014 | Comments Off

Fianna Fáil Senator Averil Power has accused Sinn Féin of speaking out of one side of their mouth in Ireland and another to their wealthy backers in the United States.

Her comments follow the decision by the party to refuse to take part in a cross-party video criticising the exclusion of LGBT groups from the main St Patrick's Day parade in New York and commending the organisers of the inclusive 'St Pats For All' event in the city.

In the end, the video went ahead with representatives from Fianna Fáil (Senator Power), Fine Gael (Jerry Buttimer TD), Labour (Senator Bacik) and the Independents (John Halligan TD).

According to Senator Power, "I was disappointed that Sinn Féin weren't willing to take part in the video but happy that we still had representatives of the four largest political groups. I had no intention of pointing out Sinn Féin's refusal to participate. However, when the party was questioned yesterday about why they hadn't taken part, I was accused by an official Sinn Féin twitter account of not having informed them at all about the video. When I pointed out that this wasn't true, the party later claimed that 'script issues' had led to their decision to drop out of the video.

"In the draft script sent to Sinn Féin on Thursday, the following line had been given to the Sinn Féin Spokesperson 'We commend the organisers of the St Pats for All parade and hope you have a great day celebrating the diversity and inclusiveness of today's Ireland.'

"I hadn't anticipated that they would have a problem with such a positive and simple statement but when it became clear to me that they weren't happy, I offered them a choice of any of the other lines in the video. I suggested that they could have the opening line that 'As Senators and Deputies from all of the main Irish political groups, we are committed to achieving full equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.' I also offered them the final line simply wishing the viewers a Happy St Patrick's Day.

I was then told that they didn't just have a problem with one line, rather they didn't agree with the overall message of the script and were not happy to participate at all in a video that used the word 'we' when criticising the main NYC parade for excluding LGBT groups. The whole point of the video was to send a unified message from all of the participants that the exclusion of the Irish-American LGBT community from the main NYC parade is wrong and that all St Patricks Day events should be open to everyone regardless of their gender, colour, creed or sexual orientation. Sinn Féin clearly weren't happy to be associated with that message in a video that would be seen in America. They are happy to condemn discrimination against LGBT people at home but they speak out of the other side of their mouth to their financial backers in the US", Senator Power concluded.
http://averilpower.ie/?p=5181


Fianna Fáil Senator's comments are dishonest and disappointing

Sinn Féin Spokesperson on Justice and Equality, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn has described comments from Fianna Fáil Senator Averil Power on the issue of why Sinn Féin withdrew their participation from a video she organised as "dishonest and disappointing".

Deputy Mac Lochlainn said:

"Last Tuesday 25th February, I received an email from Fianna Fáil Senator Averil Power in which she asked if I would take part in a video message on LGBT equality and the need for all St Patricks day celebrations to be inclusive.

"As I had a prior engagement last Thursday, my office called Senator Power's office the following day to confirm that our Seanad Spokesperson on Justice and Equality, Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh would take part in the video on behalf of Sinn Féin.

"However on the Thursday, Senator Ó Clochartaigh was given a written script from Senator Power with the words he and the other participants were to read out on the video.

"It was now clear from this written script that rather than the video presented to me and my party in her email, this was now a video endorsing one St Patrick's event in New York over another and that the video was clearly not an all-party initiative based on each party's policies in support of the LBGT community and inclusivity.

"Senator Ó Clochartaigh then relayed our concerns to Senator Power outlining that we objected to the last paragraph of her script, endorsing one St Patrick's celebratory event over another but we were happy to read any of the remaining script as presented. Unfortunately Senator Power refused to change her script and what Senator Ó Clochartaigh was to read out in the video so he had no choice but to withdraw his participation in the video.

"The attempts by Senator Power to misrepresent our party's reasons for withdrawing are dishonest and disappointing."
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/29185
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 04, 2014, 09:22:14 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 03, 2014, 10:13:47 PM
Who do you believe?

Sinn Féin Speak Out Of One Side Of Their Mouth At Home And Another To Their Wealthy Backers In The United States
Posted on March 3, 2014 | Comments Off

Fianna Fáil Senator Averil Power has accused Sinn Féin of speaking out of one side of their mouth in Ireland and another to their wealthy backers in the United States.

Her comments follow the decision by the party to refuse to take part in a cross-party video criticising the exclusion of LGBT groups from the main St Patrick's Day parade in New York and commending the organisers of the inclusive 'St Pats For All' event in the city.

In the end, the video went ahead with representatives from Fianna Fáil (Senator Power), Fine Gael (Jerry Buttimer TD), Labour (Senator Bacik) and the Independents (John Halligan TD).

According to Senator Power, "I was disappointed that Sinn Féin weren't willing to take part in the video but happy that we still had representatives of the four largest political groups. I had no intention of pointing out Sinn Féin's refusal to participate. However, when the party was questioned yesterday about why they hadn't taken part, I was accused by an official Sinn Féin twitter account of not having informed them at all about the video. When I pointed out that this wasn't true, the party later claimed that 'script issues' had led to their decision to drop out of the video.

"In the draft script sent to Sinn Féin on Thursday, the following line had been given to the Sinn Féin Spokesperson 'We commend the organisers of the St Pats for All parade and hope you have a great day celebrating the diversity and inclusiveness of today's Ireland.'

"I hadn't anticipated that they would have a problem with such a positive and simple statement but when it became clear to me that they weren't happy, I offered them a choice of any of the other lines in the video. I suggested that they could have the opening line that 'As Senators and Deputies from all of the main Irish political groups, we are committed to achieving full equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.' I also offered them the final line simply wishing the viewers a Happy St Patrick's Day.

I was then told that they didn't just have a problem with one line, rather they didn't agree with the overall message of the script and were not happy to participate at all in a video that used the word 'we' when criticising the main NYC parade for excluding LGBT groups. The whole point of the video was to send a unified message from all of the participants that the exclusion of the Irish-American LGBT community from the main NYC parade is wrong and that all St Patricks Day events should be open to everyone regardless of their gender, colour, creed or sexual orientation. Sinn Féin clearly weren't happy to be associated with that message in a video that would be seen in America. They are happy to condemn discrimination against LGBT people at home but they speak out of the other side of their mouth to their financial backers in the US", Senator Power concluded.
http://averilpower.ie/?p=5181


Fianna Fáil Senator's comments are dishonest and disappointing

Sinn Féin Spokesperson on Justice and Equality, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn has described comments from Fianna Fáil Senator Averil Power on the issue of why Sinn Féin withdrew their participation from a video she organised as "dishonest and disappointing".

Deputy Mac Lochlainn said:

"Last Tuesday 25th February, I received an email from Fianna Fáil Senator Averil Power in which she asked if I would take part in a video message on LGBT equality and the need for all St Patricks day celebrations to be inclusive.

"As I had a prior engagement last Thursday, my office called Senator Power's office the following day to confirm that our Seanad Spokesperson on Justice and Equality, Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh would take part in the video on behalf of Sinn Féin.

"However on the Thursday, Senator Ó Clochartaigh was given a written script from Senator Power with the words he and the other participants were to read out on the video.

"It was now clear from this written script that rather than the video presented to me and my party in her email, this was now a video endorsing one St Patrick's event in New York over another and that the video was clearly not an all-party initiative based on each party's policies in support of the LBGT community and inclusivity.

"Senator Ó Clochartaigh then relayed our concerns to Senator Power outlining that we objected to the last paragraph of her script, endorsing one St Patrick's celebratory event over another but we were happy to read any of the remaining script as presented. Unfortunately Senator Power refused to change her script and what Senator Ó Clochartaigh was to read out in the video so he had no choice but to withdraw his participation in the video.

"The attempts by Senator Power to misrepresent our party's reasons for withdrawing are dishonest and disappointing."
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/29185

SF have always supported the LGBT community and at this years Ard Fheis motions were passed in support of them as well as contributions from many within the party.There were many foreign dignitaries in attendance including from America so therefore would have to believe SF on this occasion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 04, 2014, 09:47:50 AM
When sinn fein are running the place we'll send the scripts
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 04, 2014, 11:00:04 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 04, 2014, 09:22:14 AM
would have to believe SF on this occasion.
When was the last time you disbelieved anything from them I wonder ?  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 04, 2014, 12:26:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 04, 2014, 11:00:04 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 04, 2014, 09:22:14 AM
would have to believe SF on this occasion.
When was the last time you disbelieved anything from them I wonder ?  ::)

glens Abu in obedient lapdog shocker
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 04, 2014, 01:32:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 04, 2014, 11:00:04 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 04, 2014, 09:22:14 AM
would have to believe SF on this occasion.
When was the last time you disbelieved anything from them I wonder ?  ::)

Not often to be honest but sure I dont make any bones about it.Sinn Fein Abu.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on March 04, 2014, 03:57:51 PM
A Sinn Fein motion is as useful as a chocolate fire gaurd. Sure they passed one to boycott
Caterpillar and it was completely ignored by Paul Maskey and Martin McGuinness, who also went to the factory and spoke in glowing terms about a company who have made life hell on earth for the Palestinians. But hey, they bring along a Stooge from the Palestinian Authority every year to the Ard Fheis who gives a wee speech to all and finishes with a "Tiocfaid Ar La" to please the audience.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 04, 2014, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 04, 2014, 01:32:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 04, 2014, 11:00:04 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 04, 2014, 09:22:14 AM
would have to believe SF on this occasion.
When was the last time you disbelieved anything from them I wonder ?  ::)

Not often to be honest but sure I dont make any bones about it.Sinn Fein Abu.
I think it's the "on this occasion" that amused.

As for the issue, SF aren't normally found wanting on LGBT issues, but their explanation of this incident doesn't convince.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 04, 2014, 07:16:59 PM
Row as Ruth Patterson puts on Linfield scarf at Belfast City Council meeting

A row has broken out at Belfast City Council after a DUP councillor put on a Linfield football scarf.

Sinn Féin objected after the DUP's Ruth Patterson put on the scarf while speaking on a motion calling on the council to honour outgoing Linfield manager David Jeffrey.

Sinn Féin councillor Jim McVeigh said their objection was not to the motion, but to the wearing of the scarf.

The issue has been sent for discussion to a council committee.

The monthly meeting of the council on Monday was held up for more than 10 minutes as a result of complaints from Mr McVeigh.

The deputy lord mayor Christopher Stalford, who was chairing the meeting at the time, dismissed the complaints and told him: "Sit down and stop acting like a petulant child".

Mr McVeigh rejected the comment.

He asked for clarification from council officials on whether or not a Linfield scarf should be allowed to be worn by members at an official council meeting.

Alderman Stalford refused to consult officials and moved on.

The decision on whether or not to honour record-breaking David Jeffrey, who is standing down as Linfield manager at the end of the season, was sent for discussion to a council committee.

In spite of the row over the scarf, it seems likely to win widespread support on the council.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26428051


Now I wouldn't have expected any more from Patterson (who no doubt is a dedicated football enthusiast and a Linfield season ticket holder, given that she couldn't even get the manager's name right), but you'd think McVeigh would have more sense than to take the bait.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Apparently so on March 04, 2014, 07:42:07 PM
Changes really need to be made in the North. Both Sinn Fein and the DUP are hopeless and an utter embarrassment

f**king wise up ya shower of shite and just try to make a go of running the place
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on March 04, 2014, 08:16:56 PM
Another example of the "new politics" Lawnseed and the Gang are going to implement to save the Republic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2014, 08:22:25 PM
That's probably the maddest thing I've heard, objecting to a scarf! And the motion itself wasn't even passed either, but sent on to a Committee. Jesus, you couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 04, 2014, 09:50:00 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 04, 2014, 08:16:56 PM
Another example of the "new politics" Lawnseed and the Gang are going to implement to save the Republic.

I think criticism of attire in a political chamber would hardly be new territory in the 26 counties. Just ask Ming or Mick.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 04, 2014, 09:53:18 PM
From Jude Collins:
http://www.judecollins.com (http://www.judecollins.com)

RUTH MUFFLES UP
The Equality Commission has a Guide for Employers and Employees. It says "there should be no place in the workplace for conduct that has the potential to disrupt an harmonious working environment". So here's the question: did Ruth Patterson's donning of a Linfield scarf in Belfast City Council last night help promote a harmonious working environment?

Definitely No. Did Ruth know it would damage harmonious working relations? Of course she did. Ruth's record on promoting harmonious relations is nothing if not consistent. When she was deputy mayor, she refused to shake hands or even look at the Sinn Féin mayor. She posted on a website her satisfaction at the thought of a Michael-Stone-type  attack on a  proposed republican march. She is a woman who appears to delight in doing things that belong in the past and certainly not in an adult political system.

The fact is that Linfield in its history as a football club was the epitome of anti-Catholic bigotry. I say 'was' – the club is presently doing all it can to leave that history behind it. In Belfast City Hall I presume Sinn Féin were seeking to encourage that kind of positive behaviour in the club when it supported the motion to honour the LInfield manager David Jeffrey. Ruth on the other hand was seeking to appeal to those who would drag the club back to its unhappy past.

But here's the saddest thing. When a politician speaks or acts – any politician – he or she has part of his/her mind focused on the next election. Will this action or statement get me votes? Ruth Patterson will, presumably, be looking for votes in May. Which means she believes that this kind of provocative, jarring, hackles-raising conduct is something her electorate like to see. Oh dear. I hope not. I really hope not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 07:15:53 AM
I can't disagree with that article. And he doesn't try and defend McVeigh's response.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on March 05, 2014, 07:56:39 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 07:15:53 AM
I can't disagree with that article. And he doesn't try and defend McVeigh's response.

I think his first two paragraphs (being essentially the same argument as McVeigh's) can be taken as something of a defence of McVeigh's argument.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2014, 08:28:35 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 07:15:53 AM
I can't disagree with that article. And he doesn't try and defend McVeigh's response.

Can't agree with the idea that this should be ignored or "not take the bait". It's akin to telling someone who is bullied to ignore it in the hope it stops. If it's not challenged then it won't change.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on March 05, 2014, 09:10:19 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2014, 08:28:35 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 07:15:53 AM
I can't disagree with that article. And he doesn't try and defend McVeigh's response.

Can't agree with the idea that this should be ignored or "not take the bait". It's akin to telling someone who is bullied to ignore it in the hope it stops. If it's not challenged then it won't change.

She wore it to get a rise out of the shinners, and it worked a treat. If they'd ignored her she wouldn't have gotten all this publicity that she craves for the knuckle dragging voters she's appealing to.

See the game for what it is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 09:14:45 AM
Why Ruth Patterson, friend of Wullie, Jamie and the neanderthal wing of loyalism is still in the DUP is beyond me. She makes Jim Allister look positively ecumenical. Perhaps Jim McVeigh should have ignored her, but where do you stop?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2014, 09:15:24 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 05, 2014, 09:10:19 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2014, 08:28:35 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 07:15:53 AM
I can't disagree with that article. And he doesn't try and defend McVeigh's response.

Can't agree with the idea that this should be ignored or "not take the bait". It's akin to telling someone who is bullied to ignore it in the hope it stops. If it's not challenged then it won't change.

She wore it to get a rise out of the shinners, and it worked a treat. If they'd ignored her she wouldn't have gotten all this publicity that she craves for the knuckle dragging voters she's appealing to.

See the game for what it is.

And if she doesn't get bored? If she thinks this is leeway to do as she likes and fcuk the consequences? That she'll be allowed to get away with something a bit bigger next time?

Do not agree with that at all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on March 05, 2014, 09:16:30 AM
I think the Shinners have it right here. Fleggy McFleggerson is clearly acting the maggot and she needs to be called out for it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on March 05, 2014, 09:21:43 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2014, 09:15:24 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 05, 2014, 09:10:19 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2014, 08:28:35 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 07:15:53 AM
I can't disagree with that article. And he doesn't try and defend McVeigh's response.

Can't agree with the idea that this should be ignored or "not take the bait". It's akin to telling someone who is bullied to ignore it in the hope it stops. If it's not challenged then it won't change.


She wore it to get a rise out of the shinners, and it worked a treat. If they'd ignored her she wouldn't have gotten all this publicity that she craves for the knuckle dragging voters she's appealing to.

See the game for what it is.

And if she doesn't get bored? If she thinks this is leeway to do as she likes and fcuk the consequences? That she'll be allowed to get away with something a bit bigger next time?

Do not agree with that at all.

If she then comes in dressed as orange lille, then yes, apart from questioning her taste even the SDLP would have something to say you would have thought.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 05, 2014, 09:29:27 AM
Imagine the response if a Lunfleg scarf appeared on Eastenders!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on March 05, 2014, 09:32:36 AM
Quote from: deiseach on March 05, 2014, 09:16:30 AM
I think the Shinners have it right here. Fleggy McFleggerson is clearly acting the maggot and she needs to be called out for it.

Agree with this. Some of the horseshit that herself and her mates come out with need to be challenged. This whole thing of 'aren't they a gas bunch of eejits' is risky I think.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: take_yer_points on March 05, 2014, 09:36:09 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 05, 2014, 09:32:36 AM
Quote from: deiseach on March 05, 2014, 09:16:30 AM
I think the Shinners have it right here. Fleggy McFleggerson is clearly acting the maggot and she needs to be called out for it.

Agree with this. Some of the horseshit that herself and her mates come out with need to be challenged. This whole thing of 'aren't they a gas bunch of eejits' is risky I think.

The perfect response would've been to laugh in her face, take out the camera phone, get a picture of her and get it onto social media
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on March 05, 2014, 09:37:15 AM
I don't think so. Because then 'her' constituents would have seen her defending their culture in the face of Sinn FeinIRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: take_yer_points on March 05, 2014, 10:31:10 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 05, 2014, 09:37:15 AM
I don't think so. Because then 'her' constituents would have seen her defending their culture in the face of Sinn FeinIRA.

I think some of them may have thought that. But surely the majority would see an embarrassing middle aged woman making a tit out of herself and themmuns having a great laugh about her on facebook and twitter
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors

Oh I agree that it shouldn't have been worn,just wonder it she had been ignored on the night and it dealt with at a later date.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 11:07:10 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors

Oh I agree that it shouldn't have been worn,just wonder it she had been ignored on the night and it dealt with at a later date.
Theres always "the castlederg manuvre" the shinners arrive the next time with o neills jerseys ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on March 05, 2014, 11:23:45 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 11:07:10 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors

Oh I agree that it shouldn't have been worn,just wonder it she had been ignored on the night and it dealt with at a later date.
Theres always "the castlederg manuvre" the shinners arrive the next time with o neills jerseys ;)

Good man! That'll show them! The world will watch in admiration
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 05, 2014, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 11:07:10 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors

Oh I agree that it shouldn't have been worn,just wonder it she had been ignored on the night and it dealt with at a later date.
Theres always "the castlederg manuvre" the shinners arrive the next time with o neills jerseys ;)

Did they not already try something similar in Derry with Celtic tops?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on March 05, 2014, 12:49:58 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 05, 2014, 12:45:56 PM
Did they not already try something similar in Derry with Celtic tops?

<insert 'No To Foreign Games' image here>
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 05, 2014, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors

Oh I agree that it shouldn't have been worn,just wonder it she had been ignored on the night and it dealt with at a later date.
That would have been the correct approach. Jim didn't need to make it an issue on the night, just a quiet complaint to the appropriate standards / equality committee. Deprive her of the oxygen of publicity.
(nearly ended that last sentence after 5 words)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on March 05, 2014, 12:55:14 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 05, 2014, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors

Oh I agree that it shouldn't have been worn,just wonder it she had been ignored on the night and it dealt with at a later date.
That would have been the correct approach. Jim didn't need to make it an issue on the night, just a quiet complaint to the appropriate standards / equality committee. Deprive her of the oxygen of publicity.
(nearly ended that last sentence after 5 words)

My point exactly.

Play the game smarter, if Ruth is outmaneuvering you, then you need to have a word with yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on March 05, 2014, 01:13:42 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 05, 2014, 12:55:14 PM
Play the game smarter, if Ruth is outmaneuvering you, then you need to have a word with yourself.

Ouch!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2014, 01:40:46 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 05, 2014, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors

Oh I agree that it shouldn't have been worn,just wonder it she had been ignored on the night and it dealt with at a later date.
That would have been the correct approach. Jim didn't need to make it an issue on the night, just a quiet complaint to the appropriate standards / equality committee. Deprive her of the oxygen of publicity.
(nearly ended that last sentence after 5 words)

But why should he do that? It should have been dealt with at the time by the meeting chair (As in asking her to remove it). What good is a quiet complaint after the event. Put the spot light on her behaviour. I'm no massive fan of Jim McVeigh but he was well justified in making the complaint. I personally don't believe he was outmaneuvering by anyone. Every attempt at petty oneman-upship like this from either side should be highlighted and condemned, otherwise it doesn't change. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on March 05, 2014, 08:57:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.

In fairness to Alex Maskey, and to a lesser extent Gerry Kelly, he s always sent out to bat in just about every TV appearance when a SF rep is needed. Is nobody else allowed to speak ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 10:06:25 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors

Oh I agree that it shouldn't have been worn,just wonder it she had been ignored on the night and it dealt with at a later date.
Capture this moment. I'm agreeing with glens abu. And on the SF thread!

I also wonder how this incident would have panned out in O'Mulleoir had been in the Chair at the time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 10:08:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2014, 01:40:46 PM
What good is a quiet complaint after the event. Put the spot light on her behaviour.
That's exactly what she wants. And what she got.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.
there seems a pattern.. the war and all things in relation to armed action alex or Gerry.. everything else any one will do. eg you never see john o dowd speaking in relation to the hungerstrikers or phil Flanagan talking about otrs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 10:35:34 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.
there seems a pattern.. the war and all things in relation to armed action alex or Gerry.. everything else any one will do. eg you never see john o dowd speaking in relation to the hungerstrikers or phil Flanagan talking about otrs


Pearse Doherty talks a lot on the economy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:44:13 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 10:35:34 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.
there seems a pattern.. the war and all things in relation to armed action alex or Gerry.. everything else any one will do. eg you never see john o dowd speaking in relation to the hungerstrikers or phil Flanagan talking about otrs


Pearse Doherty talks a lot on the economy.
young Flanagan is quite likeable, talks a lot of sense and has headed up some good work
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 06, 2014, 07:15:06 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 10:35:34 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.
there seems a pattern.. the war and all things in relation to armed action alex or Gerry.. everything else any one will do. eg you never see john o dowd speaking in relation to the hungerstrikers or phil Flanagan talking about otrs


Pearse Doherty talks a lot on the economy.
That's the other SF you're talking about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 06, 2014, 08:12:34 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 10:08:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2014, 01:40:46 PM
What good is a quiet complaint after the event. Put the spot light on her behaviour.
That's exactly what she wants. And what she got.

No harm but what she wants is irrelevant. Triumphalist or antagonistic behaviour by either side should not be allowed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 06, 2014, 08:50:03 AM
Quote from: Minder on March 05, 2014, 08:57:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.

In fairness to Alex Maskey, and to a lesser extent Gerry Kelly, he s always sent out to bat in just about every TV appearance when a SF rep is needed. Is nobody else allowed to speak ?

Maskey and kelly are the spokesmen on policing and justice so thats why they are on regarding OTRs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 06, 2014, 08:52:19 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 05, 2014, 10:06:25 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 05, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
Hard to know on this one,can understand why the Shinners reacted the way they did but maybe if she had been ignored  she would have went away although I doubt it going on her past performances.Thinks its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Actually not hard to know.. Firstly the council is a workplace they are in receipt of wages. The wearing of this item falls under legislation concerning flags and emblems.
I know lads who couldnt wear tyrone stuff in powerscreen even though at that time the company were the county sponsors

Oh I agree that it shouldn't have been worn,just wonder it she had been ignored on the night and it dealt with at a later date.
Capture this moment. I'm agreeing with glens abu. And on the SF thread!

I also wonder how this incident would have panned out in O'Mulleoir had been in the Chair at the time.

Dont be shocked Maguire I am sure there is a lot more we could agree on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 06, 2014, 09:16:11 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 06, 2014, 08:50:03 AM
Quote from: Minder on March 05, 2014, 08:57:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.

In fairness to Alex Maskey, and to a lesser extent Gerry Kelly, he s always sent out to bat in just about every TV appearance when a SF rep is needed. Is nobody else allowed to speak ?

Maskey and kelly are the spokesmen on policing and justice so thats why they are on regarding OTRs.
Maskey is uninspiring, this is not the first poor performance, he should have been nailing the lie that these are get out of jail free cards he couldn't even do that. Anyone that lets Dolly get the better of them should not be there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 06, 2014, 09:24:41 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 06, 2014, 07:15:06 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 10:35:34 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.
there seems a pattern.. the war and all things in relation to armed action alex or Gerry.. everything else any one will do. eg you never see john o dowd speaking in relation to the hungerstrikers or phil Flanagan talking about otrs


Pearse Doherty talks a lot on the economy.
That's the other SF you're talking about.

That's true.

Different economic policies for different parts of Ireland as a result of being in government on one part and being in opposition in the other.

It's easy saying what should be done when someone else is in government. Different story when you're in the horse at being propped up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 06, 2014, 11:35:11 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 06, 2014, 09:16:11 AM
Quote from: glens abu on March 06, 2014, 08:50:03 AM
Quote from: Minder on March 05, 2014, 08:57:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.

In fairness to Alex Maskey, and to a lesser extent Gerry Kelly, he s always sent out to bat in just about every TV appearance when a SF rep is needed. Is nobody else allowed to speak ?

Maskey and kelly are the spokesmen on policing and justice so thats why they are on regarding OTRs.
Maskey is uninspiring, this is not the first poor performance, he should have been nailing the lie that these are get out of jail free cards he couldn't even do that. Anyone that lets Dolly get the better of them should not be there.

Well as you and Maguire would expect I don't agree that Dolly did anything of the sort as a matter of fact she was floundering when he hit her about her support for the release of Marion Price and Martin Corey.Also there were 5 against him plus the chair and think sitting back and letting them eat each other was the only way to handle it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 06, 2014, 11:39:18 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 06, 2014, 09:24:41 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 06, 2014, 07:15:06 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 10:35:34 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 05, 2014, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 05, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
Shinners don't seem to have anyone smart in leadership positions at the moment below McGuinness. Alex Maskey had his ass handed to him time and time again on spotlight last night. He couldn't even point out the obvious and let Big Dollie beat the crap out of him.


To be fair he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing here but yes, he did get a serious kicking alright.
there seems a pattern.. the war and all things in relation to armed action alex or Gerry.. everything else any one will do. eg you never see john o dowd speaking in relation to the hungerstrikers or phil Flanagan talking about otrs


Pearse Doherty talks a lot on the economy.
That's the other SF you're talking about.

That's true.

Different economic policies for different parts of Ireland as a result of being in government on one part and being in opposition in the other.
It's easy saying what should be done when someone else is in government. Different story when you're in the horse at being propped up.

No different ways of dealing with two completely differant situations.In the North we have no tax raising powers and have to work within the block grant.Sinn Fein were not responsible in any way for the mess of the economy in the 26. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:12:55 PM
Do we have a ukraine statement??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 07, 2014, 07:46:50 PM
The latest stage of SF's journey - McGuinness said Northern Ireland at least twice this evening on Radio Ulster.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 08:39:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 07, 2014, 07:46:50 PM
The latest stage of SF's journey - McGuinness said Northern Ireland at least twice this evening on Radio Ulster.

SF/NI  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 10:37:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 07, 2014, 07:46:50 PM
The latest stage of SF's journey - McGuinness said Northern Ireland at least twice this evening on Radio Ulster.
He was trying some ulster scots or scotch :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 13, 2014, 09:29:21 AM
Hyde Park bomb suspect John Downey has insisted that unionists knew about the secret On the Runs letters in his first interview since his trial collapsed.

He walked free from court last month after it emerged he had received a government letter telling him he was not wanted by any UK police force.

He was one of about 200 paramilitary suspects who received the letters.

Mr Downey, who had denied murdering four soldiers in the 1982 IRA attack, has spoken to the Donegal Democrat.

The 62-year-old told his local newspaper: "As far as the unionists saying that they didn't know about the letters, or course they knew.

"I got the letter in 2007, having applied through Sinn Féin in 2003, four years later the application was granted as part of an ongoing process," he said.

The County Donegal resident added that he received his letter a few days after the Northern Ireland Assembly was set up.

"As far as the letter is concerned, this was an arrangement between the British and Irish government and my arrest was a breach of the agreement between the British and Irish government."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 26, 2014, 05:15:16 AM
Gerry finally puts it up to the jene mcconville abduction  crowd what will enda talk about now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 26, 2014, 10:45:24 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 26, 2014, 05:15:16 AM
Gerry finally puts it up to the jene mcconville abduction  crowd ?

I thought the Provo IRA had been disbanded?? ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on March 26, 2014, 10:59:21 AM
Yes, but have they gone away?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 26, 2014, 11:09:38 AM
Is there anything in the timing of this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on March 26, 2014, 11:19:25 AM
Any links?  What exactly are you referring to ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 26, 2014, 11:21:32 AM
Quote from: Hardy on March 26, 2014, 10:59:21 AM
Yes, but have they gone away?
Hayseed obviously thinks they haven't anyway  :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 26, 2014, 01:56:34 PM
Who
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 27, 2014, 11:00:14 PM
Its all about timing. I hearing definate positive attitude change in the counties meath cavan and further into louth than before toward the shinners. Things are just starting to move slowley but in the right direction..  definate feelgood factor coming from mary lou in public accounts dept voters happy with her tenacity and openess.. As a shinner i'd be positive atm
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 28, 2014, 08:37:40 AM
Have been on the canvas for a while now and very positive on the doors in all areas towards the shinners always a few backwoods men who want to live in the past or drag us back there but other than that very encouraging.SF are having an all Ireland conference this Sat in Drogheda when candidates from every county in Ireland will attend and should kickstart the campaign for the up coming elections north and south.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on March 28, 2014, 01:18:17 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2591091/Former-IRA-commander-Martin-McGuinness-attend-state-dinner-Windsor-Castle-hosted-Queen.html

Former IRA Commander Martin McGuinness is set to make an historic trip to Windsor Castle to attend a state banquet hosted by the Queen, it was claimed last night.
Two years after he memorably shook hands with the British monarch, Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister is said to be on the guest list for a white tie dinner in honor of Irish President Michael D Higgins next month.
It is believed he has also been invited to a Northern Ireland 'themed' reception, again at Windsor, being hosted by the Queen three days later.
Martin McGuinness, pictured attending the funeral of Tony Benn, will attend a state banquet at Windsor Castle hosted by the Queen, it has been claimed   +6
Martin McGuinness will attend a state banquet at Windsor Castle hosted by the Queen, it has been claimed   +6
Martin McGuinness, pictured attending the funeral of Tony Benn, will attend a state banquet at Windsor Castle hosted by the Queen, it has been claimed
Although both Buckingham Palace and the Irish Government refused to comment, the Belfast Telegraph said last night that he was 'likely' to attend.
The Mail understands that invitations to the State banquet have now been sent out, while invitations to the reception are set to be posted in the next few days. Any acceptance would, however, have to be ratified by senior officials within Sinn Fein.
The sight of a self-confessed IRA leader dining in the Queen's home would have been unthinkable only a few years ago.

More...
Cherie Blair embraces former IRA commander Martin McGuinness at funeral of Tony Benn
But in 2012 - more than thirty years after her cousin, Lord Mountbatten of Burma was murdered by an IRA bomb as he holidayed with his family - the Queen agreed to meet with Mr McGuinness for the first time.
On a visit to Belfast to celebrate her Diamond Jubilee, the couple were introduced amid high security at a community reception held in a local theatre.
After much behind the scenes negotiation, the Queen shook the hand of the man once named the terrorist group's 'godfather of godfathers' not once but twice.
Although she has been at the heart of many events that have changed the course of history, few could have been so intensely personal.
The Queen adored her 'Uncle Dickie', who introduced her to her future husband, the Duke of Edinburgh. Philip, a nephew of Lord Mountbatten, was exceptionally close to the murdered aristocrat and took news of his death in 1979 equally hard.
Historic moment: The Sinn Fein politician memorably shook hands with the British monarch during a Royal trip to Northern Ireland two years ago   +6
Historic moment: The Sinn Fein politician memorably shook hands with the British monarch during a Royal trip to Northern Ireland two years ago
The meeting was equally significant for Mr McGuinness who faced criticism from hard-line republicans who see the Queen as the face of oppression in their country.
He made clear, however, that he had been moved by the Queen's decision to acknowledge the 'sad and regrettable' history of Britain's troubled relationship with Ireland when she became the first British monarch to visit the republic for a century in 2011.
The Queen's cousin Lord Mountbatten was killed by an IRA bomb   +6
The Queen's cousin Lord Mountbatten was killed by an IRA bomb
Still, the sight of Mr McGuinness dining in the historic surroundings of the Waterloo Chamber at Windsor will be something few who have experience of The Troubles ever thought they would witness.
Mr McGuinness has been open about his IRA past, but has always insisted he never killed anyone - claims that have been repeatedly questioned by his critics.
His attendance would be particularly remarkable given that Windsor Castle is the one royal residence the Queen truly calls home.
The town is also home to the Household Cavalry's Combermere Barracks. The regiment was the victim of the infamous Hyde Park bombing in 1982 which killed four soldiers and seven horses.
The President's historic five day visit, beginning on April 7, is first by an Irish head of state to the UK. Palace sources have made clear to the Mail that the monarch is taking a keener than normal interest in every detail.
The President and his wife will be met in London on April 8 by Prince Charles and Duchess of Cornwall and travel with them for a full ceremonial welcome in Windsor.
After greet the Queen and her husband they will join the royal couple for a state carriage procession to the castle, where they will reside all week.
Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister is said to be on the guest list for a white tie dinner at Windsor Castle next month   +6
Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister is said to be on the guest list for a white tie dinner at Windsor Castle next month
The president will take inspect a Guard of Honour and enjoy a private lunch with the Queen before the evening's glittering state banquet. The dinner will be attended by senior royals including Prince Charles, who regarded Lord Mountbatten as his honorary grandfather and mentor.
Normally the monarch plays little part in the rest of a visit but on this occasion she will hold a second reception at castle on April 10 before formally bidding farewell to her guests the following day.
A spokesman for Buckingham Palace said last night: 'As with all state visits we would not announce the names of invitees in advance of the state banquet. Clearly if people who have been invited wish to make that fact public is a matter for them.'
Mr McGuinness, pictured in 1985, has been open about his IRA past, but has always insisted he never killed anyone   +6
Mr McGuinness, pictured in 1985, has been open about his IRA past, but has always insisted he never killed anyone
Courtiers said the importance of the visit by the Irish President cannot be overstated.
'All state visits are important but this one is exceptional,' said one.
'It is particularly historic being the first inward state visit by an Irish president but also because it takes place so quickly after the Queen's own visit to Ireland in 2011 when she was made to feel so welcome.
'The Royal Household always takes great pride in the hospitality they offer but have very heavily invested in this visit in particular.
'The Queen regards Windsor Castle as her home and the fact that she has invited the Irish president to stay there is a mark of the importance she attributes to it.
'This is clearly something very personal for her and she is taking a very keen interest in every detail.'
Speaking ahead of his meeting with the Queen in 2012, Mr McGuinness referred to a famous remark by former prime minister Tony Blair before the 1998 Good Friday peace deal, saying: 'There was a lot of talk in the past about someone feeling the hand of history on his shoulder.
'This is about stretching out the hand of peace and reconciliation to Queen Elizabeth who represents hundreds of thousands of unionists in the north.
'It is about me representing my party, wishing to show the unionist people in the north that we are prepared to respect what they believe in, albeit that we are still Irish republicans.
'I am an Irish republican now - after I meet with Queen Elizabeth, I will still be an Irish republican, and just as passionate about freedom, justice and peace, and reconciliation, as I was the day before.'
Lord Mountbatten, a grand-son of Queen Victoria, was murdered when the IRA planted a bomb under his fishing boat off the coast of County Sligo.
Although pulled alive from the wreckage, he was fatally wounded by the explosion which also killed his son-in-law's mother, Lady Brabourne, his grandson, Nicholas, 14, a 15-year-old local boy, Paul Maxwell.
In the aftermath of the tragedy the Queen took the remaining family under her wing, caring for them at Balmoral, her Scottish home.
IRA bomb-maker Thomas McMahon was convicted for his part in the tragedy but released under the Good Friday Agreement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 28, 2014, 08:48:21 PM
Quote from: glens abu on March 28, 2014, 08:37:40 AM
Have been on the canvas for a while now and very positive on the doors in all areas towards the shinners always a few backwoods men who want to live in the past or drag us back there but other than that very encouraging.SF are having an all Ireland conference this Sat in Drogheda when candidates from every county in Ireland will attend and should kickstart the campaign for the up coming elections north and south.
Ive been invited to tag along on canvas as well might see you glens....  Yep its shootin fish in  barrel im  told.. very positive. . lets hope the handshakes turn into votes
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 28, 2014, 09:31:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 28, 2014, 09:26:00 PM
Good luck in Owenvarragh Park.

;D ;D don't think would even risk there myself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 30, 2014, 06:25:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
They won't be voting for SF so
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bensars on March 30, 2014, 06:52:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
West of the Bann has been "green" for years with SF MPs/MLAs.

Hasn't been many jobs created that I can recall
Hospitals closed
Can't even get a decent dual carriageway through ?

Although there's some token vox pops at election time ,the record on the ground once election time goes is not as clear, in regards they can talk, but feck all gets done about.

They have a half decent media team though
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 30, 2014, 09:03:58 PM
Yes 21% is great but only a poll!great conference yesterday with 350 candidates from all across the Island and the 4 Euro candidates a party def on the rise across Ireland.Sinn Fein Abu
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 30, 2014, 09:08:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
We all await the poll that follows your canvas.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 30, 2014, 09:30:25 PM
Quote from: Bensars on March 30, 2014, 06:52:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
West of the Bann has been "green" for years with SF MPs/MLAs.

Hasn't been many jobs created that I can recall
Hospitals closed
Can't even get a decent dual carriageway through ?

Although there's some token vox pops at election time ,the record on the ground once election time goes is not as clear, in regards they can talk, but feck all gets done about.

They have a half decent media team though
Great at creating jobs in anything tenuously linked to PEACE funding or the victims sector. Wouldn't want any of them advising on industry though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 30, 2014, 09:34:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 30, 2014, 09:30:25 PM
Quote from: Bensars on March 30, 2014, 06:52:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
West of the Bann has been "green" for years with SF MPs/MLAs.

Hasn't been many jobs created that I can recall
Hospitals closed
Can't even get a decent dual carriageway through ?

Although there's some token vox pops at election time ,the record on the ground once election time goes is not as clear, in regards they can talk, but feck all gets done about.

They have a half decent media team though
Great at creating jobs in anything tenuously linked to PEACE funding or the victims sector. Wouldn't want any of them advising on industry though.

Yeah but the good thing is that it's not all about you ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 30, 2014, 09:08:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
We all await the poll that follows your canvas.
I cant wair to get your crowd to the ballet box... The dodo party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 30, 2014, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 30, 2014, 09:08:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
We all await the poll that follows your canvas.
I cant wair to get your crowd to the ballet box... The dodo party
A ballet box in one hand...

(http://www.booandtheboy.com/images/IRIDESCENT%20BALLERINA%20JEWELERY%20BOX.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 31, 2014, 02:51:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 30, 2014, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 30, 2014, 09:08:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
We all await the poll that follows your canvas.
I cant wair to get your crowd to the ballet box... The dodo party
A ballet box in one hand...

(http://www.booandtheboy.com/images/IRIDESCENT%20BALLERINA%20JEWELERY%20BOX.jpg)
There'll be no spelling mistakes for you to touch yourself about cause your stoop arse will be gone and you know it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 31, 2014, 03:01:04 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 30, 2014, 09:30:25 PM
Quote from: Bensars on March 30, 2014, 06:52:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
West of the Bann has been "green" for years with SF MPs/MLAs.

Hasn't been many jobs created that I can recall
Hospitals closed
Can't even get a decent dual carriageway through ?

Although there's some token vox pops at election time ,the record on the ground once election time goes is not as clear, in regards they can talk, but feck all gets done about.

They have a half decent media team though
Great at creating jobs in anything tenuously linked to PEACE funding or the victims sector. Wouldn't want any of them advising on industry though.
What industry? We might as well be the outer hebrides when it comes to industry. The uk is booming and its going right past us. Is that sinn feins fault?  We are 1 fifth of the.government here why would sinn fein be to blame for lack of industry in nordie land when the place has been systematically asset stripped for the last 90 years
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 31, 2014, 06:52:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 31, 2014, 03:01:04 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 30, 2014, 09:30:25 PM
Quote from: Bensars on March 30, 2014, 06:52:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 30, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?
Yes yes yes.. I knew it!!  I'll know more when I get a chance to go on the canvas oma. But the word from the guys already out there is very positive.  Voters are sick of sliveenism and corruption they want positive open fairplay governance by people  who arent interested in feathering a nest for themselves and who give a shit about creating jobs and equality
West of the Bann has been "green" for years with SF MPs/MLAs.

Hasn't been many jobs created that I can recall
Hospitals closed
Can't even get a decent dual carriageway through ?

Although there's some token vox pops at election time ,the record on the ground once election time goes is not as clear, in regards they can talk, but feck all gets done about.

They have a half decent media team though
Great at creating jobs in anything tenuously linked to PEACE funding or the victims sector. Wouldn't want any of them advising on industry though.
What industry? We might as well be the outer hebrides when it comes to industry. The uk is booming and its going right past us. Is that sinn feins fault?  We are 1 fifth of the.government here why would sinn fein be to blame for lack of industry in nordie land when the place has been systematically asset stripped for the last 90 years
If 4 out of 13 members of the Executive is one fifth of the government, it's a good job you're not in charge of the Finance department.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 31, 2014, 10:20:00 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?

What's the state of play with the other parties and Independents?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on March 31, 2014, 10:32:19 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 31, 2014, 10:20:00 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 30, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Sinn Fein up to 21% in today's red c poll. Temporary transfer of support following the carnage of the whistleblower-gate or a real chance of significant gains in the next election?

What's the state of play with the other parties and Independents?

http://www.redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/SBP-March-2014-Poll-Report.jpg
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 04, 2014, 09:03:27 AM
Watchdog throws out bizarre 'lost votes' argument from Robinson and McGuinness

Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness's department has argued that it should be allowed to withhold information if releasing it might cost the First Minister and Deputy First Minister votes.

The extraordinary attempt to circumvent the Freedom of Information (FoI) Act was made in response to a request from the News Letter for the department's 'risk register'.

However, the Information Commissioner, the watchdog which enforces the open government law, has dismissed the argument and ordered that the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) provide the information by May 1.

A formal decision notice upheld this newspaper's appeal against Stormont Castle's decision.

That 10-page document reveals that OFMDFM "argued specifically that disclosure of the requested information '... could prejudice ministers' electoral prospects and would most certainly have a 'chilling effect' on the future development of corporate risk registers'."

In dismissing that argument, the commissioner noted: "While the electoral prospects of individuals are not strictly a relevant factor when weighing the public interest in the disclosure of information, the commissioner is of the view that access rights afforded by FoI constitute an accountability tool which can help the public make up its mind for the purpose of participation in democratic elections.

"Contrary to OFMDFM's assertion, this is therefore a public interest argument in favour of disclosure in respect of supporting accountability and transparency."

The decision notice also reveals that the decision to refuse the original request was taken personally by "the First Minister and Deputy First Minister acting jointly".

The department also argued that releasing the risk registers – which record the issues causing concern within OFMDFM – would "inhibit the free and frank exchange of views" and could turn future such registers into "anodyne documents".

But the commissioner rejected all of those arguments.

OFMDFM has repeatedly been found to have broken the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.

Delays – which in some cases extended to more than 300 days past the 20-day legal limit – to answering requests led in late 2012 to the department being one of just four public bodies across the UK to be monitored by the commissioner.

In one instance it only answered a request the night before the applicant was to appear in the High Court to ask for the law to be enforced.

OFMDFM did not respond to a request for comment.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/watchdog-throws-out-bizarre-lost-votes-argument-from-robinson-and-mcguinness-1-5972210#.UzsmGTqTjIw.twitter
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on April 04, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
Latest Irish Times/IPSOS Mori Poll

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-puts-fine-gael-and-fianna-f%C3%A1il-neck-and-neck-1.1749603

Poll puts Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil neck and neck
Stephen Collins.  Last Updated: Friday, April 4, 2014, 08:28

Fine Gael has suffered a significant drop in support and Fianna Fáil has recovered ground, according to the latest Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll.  The two parties are neck and neck with less than two months to go to the European and local elections.  The ongoing controversy over the administration of justice has clearly had a damaging impact on the level of support for the Government parties, with Fine Gael taking the biggest hit.  The poll was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week when the motion of no confidence in Minister for Justice Alan Shatter was being debated in the Dáil.  The bounce both Coalition parties got at the time of the exit from the EU-IMF bailout in December has now evaporated and Fine Gael and Labour are back to the level of support they had for most of last year.  Support for Sinn Féin has stayed unchanged at 21 per cent since the last Irish Times poll in December but support for Independents and Others is up.

When people were asked who they would vote for if an election were held tomorrow, party support – when undecided voters are excluded – compared with the last Irish Times poll was: Fine Gael, 25 per cent (down five points); Labour, 8 per cent (down one point); Fianna Fáil, 25 per cent (up three points); Sinn Féin, 21 per cent (no change); and Independents and Others, 21 per cent (up three points).

The survey was taken among a representative sample of 1,000 voters, in face-to-face interviews at 100 sampling points in all constituencies. The margin of error is plus or minus 3 per cent.

The core vote for the parties compared with the last poll was: Fine Gael, 18 per cent (down two points); Labour, 5 per cent (down one); Fianna Fáil, 18 per cent (up three); Sinn Féin, 15 per cent (up one); Independents/Others, 15 per cent (up three) and undecided voters, 29 per cent (down four).

The big gainer is Fianna Fáil, with the party moving up again after remaining becalmed in the polls since last summer. The aggressive stance adopted by party leader Micheál Martin in the various controversies surrounding the Department of Justice and the Garda has clearly paid dividends. Mr Martin has also seen an increase in his personal satisfaction rating. Fianna Fáil is again the biggest party in Munster, Connacht Ulster and the rest of Leinster. However, it is still trailing well behind Fine Gael in Dublin and is also behind Sinn Féin in the capital. The poll indicates that the party is going to find it very difficult to win a seat in Dublin in the European elections or make a significant impact in any of the four local authority areas in the county.

Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams has had a significant increase in his satisfaction rating, up six points to 33 per cent, giving him the highest rating of any party leader.

Satisfaction with the Government has dropped four points to 22 per cent but, despite all the controversies of recent months, that is still higher than it achieved for the 18 months before the bailout exit.  Satisfaction with Enda Kenny is down three points to 30 per cent, while satisfaction with Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore is up one point to 20 per cent, the highest rating he has achieved since autumn 2012.  There will be some satisfaction in Labour that the drop in party support since the last poll has been marginal, given the range of problems besetting the Government. However, with just 8 per cent support, the scale of the challenge it faces in the European and local elections is still enormous.  The increase in the level of support for Independents and Others to 21 per cent indicates that there is potential for at least one seat in each of the three European constituencies from that grouping.  The poll also highlights the prospect of a significant number of councillors being elected from the ranks of small parties and Independents, particularly given the large new electoral areas that will elect between six and 10 councillors.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 04, 2014, 11:23:36 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 04, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
Latest Irish Times/IPSOS Mori Poll

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-puts-fine-gael-and-fianna-f%C3%A1il-neck-and-neck-1.1749603

Poll puts Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil neck and neck
Stephen Collins.  Last Updated: Friday, April 4, 2014, 08:28

Fine Gael has suffered a significant drop in support and Fianna Fáil has recovered ground, according to the latest Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll.  The two parties are neck and neck with less than two months to go to the European and local elections.  The ongoing controversy over the administration of justice has clearly had a damaging impact on the level of support for the Government parties, with Fine Gael taking the biggest hit.  The poll was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week when the motion of no confidence in Minister for Justice Alan Shatter was being debated in the Dáil.  The bounce both Coalition parties got at the time of the exit from the EU-IMF bailout in December has now evaporated and Fine Gael and Labour are back to the level of support they had for most of last year.  Support for Sinn Féin has stayed unchanged at 21 per cent since the last Irish Times poll in December but support for Independents and Others is up.

When people were asked who they would vote for if an election were held tomorrow, party support – when undecided voters are excluded – compared with the last Irish Times poll was: Fine Gael, 25 per cent (down five points); Labour, 8 per cent (down one point); Fianna Fáil, 25 per cent (up three points); Sinn Féin, 21 per cent (no change); and Independents and Others, 21 per cent (up three points).

The survey was taken among a representative sample of 1,000 voters, in face-to-face interviews at 100 sampling points in all constituencies. The margin of error is plus or minus 3 per cent.

The core vote for the parties compared with the last poll was: Fine Gael, 18 per cent (down two points); Labour, 5 per cent (down one); Fianna Fáil, 18 per cent (up three); Sinn Féin, 15 per cent (up one); Independents/Others, 15 per cent (up three) and undecided voters, 29 per cent (down four).

The big gainer is Fianna Fáil, with the party moving up again after remaining becalmed in the polls since last summer. The aggressive stance adopted by party leader Micheál Martin in the various controversies surrounding the Department of Justice and the Garda has clearly paid dividends. Mr Martin has also seen an increase in his personal satisfaction rating. Fianna Fáil is again the biggest party in Munster, Connacht Ulster and the rest of Leinster. However, it is still trailing well behind Fine Gael in Dublin and is also behind Sinn Féin in the capital. The poll indicates that the party is going to find it very difficult to win a seat in Dublin in the European elections or make a significant impact in any of the four local authority areas in the county.

Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams has had a significant increase in his satisfaction rating, up six points to 33 per cent, giving him the highest rating of any party leader.

Satisfaction with the Government has dropped four points to 22 per cent but, despite all the controversies of recent months, that is still higher than it achieved for the 18 months before the bailout exit.  Satisfaction with Enda Kenny is down three points to 30 per cent, while satisfaction with Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore is up one point to 20 per cent, the highest rating he has achieved since autumn 2012.  There will be some satisfaction in Labour that the drop in party support since the last poll has been marginal, given the range of problems besetting the Government. However, with just 8 per cent support, the scale of the challenge it faces in the European and local elections is still enormous.  The increase in the level of support for Independents and Others to 21 per cent indicates that there is potential for at least one seat in each of the three European constituencies from that grouping.  The poll also highlights the prospect of a significant number of councillors being elected from the ranks of small parties and Independents, particularly given the large new electoral areas that will elect between six and 10 councillors.

yeah although its only a poll,that's two in a row now putting SF at 21% which for us is great.Also good to see big Gerry top the leaders poll,must be a bit annoying for all the hate Gerry men.Sinn Fein abu ;D ;D.The brothers-in- law in Tyrone,McIntyre,Jim Allister,Jamie Bryson,and Dixie must be doing somersaults. :-[ :-[   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 04, 2014, 11:50:54 AM
What is really sad is that nothing new has emerged.

We seem to be stuck with a choice of civil war politics and all of their extensive baggage and hangers on.

I think the next government will be a far left leaning coalition. Then there could be some serious soul searching after we get taxed to death.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Denn Forever on April 04, 2014, 12:01:03 PM
We wanted rid of FF.  Any one else would be better.  Then we came to the conclusion that nothing changes. 

A ULA based  government will have a tight rope to walk as so much integrity and squeaky clean ness will be expected.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 04, 2014, 01:11:15 PM
Harsh words here.



Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness has said Peter Robinson "has crossed the line" by saying they had reached agreement on welfare reform.

His comments came after the first minister claimed in an interview that they had agreed a number of measures last May.

However, he said Mr McGuinness had been unable to sell the deal to senior Sinn Féin members of the Irish parliament.

Mr McGuinness said Mr Robinson's version of events was not true.

"I think he crossed the line and I think it was a big mistake for him to cross that line," he said.


"Quite clearly some of the things that he said in relation to the discussions that took place between himself and myself and other negotiators on our side and his side on the issue of welfare cuts bear no reality to what happened at the time.

"I take umbrage at that."

He added: "The only way to resolve these issues is by mature leadership, sitting down with executive colleagues and finding a resolution rather than grandstanding on the media and presuming to speak for me."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 04, 2014, 03:56:03 PM
I'll bet Pete is devestated. Electioneering from both sides.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 04, 2014, 04:40:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 04, 2014, 11:50:54 AM

I think the next government will be a far left leaning coalition. Then there could be some serious soul searching after we get taxed to death.
You're beginning to sound as paranoid as the anti GAA/Sky deal people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 04, 2014, 07:27:25 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 04, 2014, 09:03:27 AM
Watchdog throws out bizarre 'lost votes' argument from Robinson and McGuinness

Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness's department has argued that it should be allowed to withhold information if releasing it might cost the First Minister and Deputy First Minister votes.

The extraordinary attempt to circumvent the Freedom of Information (FoI) Act was made in response to a request from the News Letter for the department's 'risk register'.

However, the Information Commissioner, the watchdog which enforces the open government law, has dismissed the argument and ordered that the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) provide the information by May 1.

A formal decision notice upheld this newspaper's appeal against Stormont Castle's decision.

That 10-page document reveals that OFMDFM "argued specifically that disclosure of the requested information '... could prejudice ministers' electoral prospects and would most certainly have a 'chilling effect' on the future development of corporate risk registers'."

In dismissing that argument, the commissioner noted: "While the electoral prospects of individuals are not strictly a relevant factor when weighing the public interest in the disclosure of information, the commissioner is of the view that access rights afforded by FoI constitute an accountability tool which can help the public make up its mind for the purpose of participation in democratic elections.

"Contrary to OFMDFM's assertion, this is therefore a public interest argument in favour of disclosure in respect of supporting accountability and transparency."

The decision notice also reveals that the decision to refuse the original request was taken personally by "the First Minister and Deputy First Minister acting jointly".

The department also argued that releasing the risk registers – which record the issues causing concern within OFMDFM – would "inhibit the free and frank exchange of views" and could turn future such registers into "anodyne documents".

But the commissioner rejected all of those arguments.

OFMDFM has repeatedly been found to have broken the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.

Delays – which in some cases extended to more than 300 days past the 20-day legal limit – to answering requests led in late 2012 to the department being one of just four public bodies across the UK to be monitored by the commissioner.

In one instance it only answered a request the night before the applicant was to appear in the High Court to ask for the law to be enforced.

OFMDFM did not respond to a request for comment.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/watchdog-throws-out-bizarre-lost-votes-argument-from-robinson-and-mcguinness-1-5972210#.UzsmGTqTjIw.twitter
This highlights the difficulty for Sinn Féin in riding two horses. In the south, as opposition,  they're demanding transparency, but when in power, they're no different to the rest of the establishment.

Even given the hypocrisy though, the excuse used here to refuse disclosure is truly bizarre: it might cost them votes! It really does beg the question - what are they trying to hide?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 04, 2014, 10:18:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 04, 2014, 07:27:25 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 04, 2014, 09:03:27 AM
Watchdog throws out bizarre 'lost votes' argument from Robinson and McGuinness

Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness's department has argued that it should be allowed to withhold information if releasing it might cost the First Minister and Deputy First Minister votes.

The extraordinary attempt to circumvent the Freedom of Information (FoI) Act was made in response to a request from the News Letter for the department's 'risk register'.

However, the Information Commissioner, the watchdog which enforces the open government law, has dismissed the argument and ordered that the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) provide the information by May 1.

A formal decision notice upheld this newspaper's appeal against Stormont Castle's decision.

That 10-page document reveals that OFMDFM "argued specifically that disclosure of the requested information '... could prejudice ministers' electoral prospects and would most certainly have a 'chilling effect' on the future development of corporate risk registers'."

In dismissing that argument, the commissioner noted: "While the electoral prospects of individuals are not strictly a relevant factor when weighing the public interest in the disclosure of information, the commissioner is of the view that access rights afforded by FoI constitute an accountability tool which can help the public make up its mind for the purpose of participation in democratic elections.

"Contrary to OFMDFM's assertion, this is therefore a public interest argument in favour of disclosure in respect of supporting accountability and transparency."

The decision notice also reveals that the decision to refuse the original request was taken personally by "the First Minister and Deputy First Minister acting jointly".

The department also argued that releasing the risk registers – which record the issues causing concern within OFMDFM – would "inhibit the free and frank exchange of views" and could turn future such registers into "anodyne documents".

But the commissioner rejected all of those arguments.

OFMDFM has repeatedly been found to have broken the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.

Delays – which in some cases extended to more than 300 days past the 20-day legal limit – to answering requests led in late 2012 to the department being one of just four public bodies across the UK to be monitored by the commissioner.

In one instance it only answered a request the night before the applicant was to appear in the High Court to ask for the law to be enforced.

OFMDFM did not respond to a request for comment.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/watchdog-throws-out-bizarre-lost-votes-argument-from-robinson-and-mcguinness-1-5972210#.UzsmGTqTjIw.twitter
This highlights the difficulty for Sinn Féin in riding two horses. In the south, as opposition,  they're demanding transparency, but when in power, they're no different to the rest of the establishment.

Even given the hypocrisy though, the excuse used here to refuse disclosure is truly bizarre: it might cost them votes! It really does beg the question - what are they trying to hide?

Just like Bertie's changes to the FOI Act.

They want you to hear all of the good they do, and no more.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 05, 2014, 01:11:33 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 04, 2014, 10:18:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 04, 2014, 07:27:25 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 04, 2014, 09:03:27 AM
Watchdog throws out bizarre 'lost votes' argument from Robinson and McGuinness

Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness's department has argued that it should be allowed to withhold information if releasing it might cost the First Minister and Deputy First Minister votes.

The extraordinary attempt to circumvent the Freedom of Information (FoI) Act was made in response to a request from the News Letter for the department's 'risk register'.

However, the Information Commissioner, the watchdog which enforces the open government law, has dismissed the argument and ordered that the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) provide the information by May 1.

A formal decision notice upheld this newspaper's appeal against Stormont Castle's decision.

That 10-page document reveals that OFMDFM "argued specifically that disclosure of the requested information '... could prejudice ministers' electoral prospects and would most certainly have a 'chilling effect' on the future development of corporate risk registers'."

In dismissing that argument, the commissioner noted: "While the electoral prospects of individuals are not strictly a relevant factor when weighing the public interest in the disclosure of information, the commissioner is of the view that access rights afforded by FoI constitute an accountability tool which can help the public make up its mind for the purpose of participation in democratic elections.

"Contrary to OFMDFM's assertion, this is therefore a public interest argument in favour of disclosure in respect of supporting accountability and transparency."

The decision notice also reveals that the decision to refuse the original request was taken personally by "the First Minister and Deputy First Minister acting jointly".

The department also argued that releasing the risk registers – which record the issues causing concern within OFMDFM – would "inhibit the free and frank exchange of views" and could turn future such registers into "anodyne documents".

But the commissioner rejected all of those arguments.

OFMDFM has repeatedly been found to have broken the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.

Delays – which in some cases extended to more than 300 days past the 20-day legal limit – to answering requests led in late 2012 to the department being one of just four public bodies across the UK to be monitored by the commissioner.

In one instance it only answered a request the night before the applicant was to appear in the High Court to ask for the law to be enforced.

OFMDFM did not respond to a request for comment.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/watchdog-throws-out-bizarre-lost-votes-argument-from-robinson-and-mcguinness-1-5972210#.UzsmGTqTjIw.twitter
This highlights the difficulty for Sinn Féin in riding two horses. In the south, as opposition,  they're demanding transparency, but when in power, they're no different to the rest of the establishment.

Even given the hypocrisy though, the excuse used here to refuse disclosure is truly bizarre: it might cost them votes! It really does beg the question - what are they trying to hide?

Just like Bertie's changes to the FOI Act.

They want you to hear all of the good they do, and no more.

Plus, they get to hide who donates to their respective parties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 05, 2014, 11:34:49 AM
It's a lot easier being on the back benches to be fair.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 05, 2014, 12:23:31 PM

Air rifle - not too many air rifles used in Belfast in the troubles. I love the way the councillor a come out with the same press friendly lines.


PUBLISHED 05 APRIL 2014 12:07 PM

AN air rifle has been found near Sinn Fein Gerry Adams's home in west Belfast home of the County Louth TD Gerry Adams.

The weapon was found on Friday concealed in a hedge near the Co Louth TD's home in the  Norfolk Parade area off the Glen Road. The weapon was removed following a security operation and was taken away for forensic examination.

Sinn Fein councillor Caoimhin MacGiolla Mhin said that he alerted the police after being told that a gun had been placed in a hedge in the street.

"Thankfully due to the diligence of members of the community this weapon has been taken off the streets. Children or anyone could have come across it and we could have been talking about a tragedy.  Weapons have no place in our community and the more that are removed the better for all", he said.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 05, 2014, 12:46:33 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 05, 2014, 12:23:31 PM

Air rifle - not too many air rifles used in Belfast in the troubles. I love the way the councillor a come out with the same press friendly lines.


PUBLISHED 05 APRIL 2014 12:07 PM

AN air rifle has been found near Sinn Fein Gerry Adams's home in west Belfast home of the County Louth TD Gerry Adams.

The weapon was found on Friday concealed in a hedge near the Co Louth TD's home in the  Norfolk Parade area off the Glen Road. The weapon was removed following a security operation and was taken away for forensic examination.

Sinn Fein councillor Caoimhin MacGiolla Mhin said that he alerted the police after being told that a gun had been placed in a hedge in the street.

"Thankfully due to the diligence of members of the community this weapon has been taken off the streets. Children or anyone could have come across it and we could have been talking about a tragedy.  Weapons have no place in our community and the more that are removed the better for all", he said.

Was wullie about hes class at finding stuff
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 05, 2014, 11:43:22 PM
Martina Purdy's take on it

As a youth, Martin McGuinness wore the uniform of an IRA volunteer - secretly, illegally and defiantly. Now, decades later, he will don a white tie and tails and publicly, cheerfully and - perhaps -still defiantly, attend the Queen's banquet at Windsor Castle.

We should not be too surprised. His journey has already seen him shake the hand of the Queen.

Not to attend the first state visit of an Irish president would undermine all his promises, made as an Irish presidential candidate, that he would work for peace.

It will put him in the company of Ireland's most senior figure, Michael D Higgins, and the presidency is a post that Sinn Féin covets.

It will also win praise in Dublin and the Republic, helping to reverse the political blunder of Sinn Féin's refusal to attend the Queen's visit to the Irish presidential residence in 2011.

And whatever votes Sinn Féin loses in Northern Ireland, if any, will be offset by potential gains in the south of Ireland.

Having conquered Northern Ireland, it is to the south that Sinn Féin's hungry eyes look for growth.

This decision is good for Martin McGuinness, peace and for Sinn Féin
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 06, 2014, 07:52:38 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 05, 2014, 11:43:22 PM
Martina Purdy's take on it

As a youth, Martin McGuinness wore the uniform of an IRA volunteer - secretly, illegally and defiantly. Now, decades later, he will don a white tie and tails and publicly, cheerfully and - perhaps -still defiantly, attend the Queen's banquet at Windsor Castle.

We should not be too surprised. His journey has already seen him shake the hand of the Queen.

Not to attend the first state visit of an Irish president would undermine all his promises, made as an Irish presidential candidate, that he would work for peace.

It will put him in the company of Ireland's most senior figure, Michael D Higgins, and the presidency is a post that Sinn Féin covets.

It will also win praise in Dublin and the Republic, helping to reverse the political blunder of Sinn Féin's refusal to attend the Queen's visit to the Irish presidential residence in 2011.

And whatever votes Sinn Féin loses in Northern Ireland, if any, will be offset by potential gains in the south of Ireland.

Having conquered Northern Ireland, it is to the south that Sinn Féin's hungry eyes look for growth.

This decision is good for Martin McGuinness, peace and for Sinn Féin
Said it before.. The brits are the best friends we have on this planet. Biggest trading partners, etc etc ffs we are blood related to most of them. Hostilities make no sense once they learn respect and boundaries. When this problem is resolved eventually both countries will derive strenght from good relations. Sinn fein are showing maturity and forward thinking in attending. Also the royals are doing their bit so I dont see a difficulty
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on April 06, 2014, 08:44:51 AM
On twitter,in a response to a curmudgeonly unionist's "champagne socialists" jibe,Danny Morrison pointed out that Mc Guinness would be bringing a few OTR letters with him! ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 06, 2014, 09:22:37 AM
Can you get odds on McGuinness getting a knighthood/MBE in the next few years ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on April 06, 2014, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 06, 2014, 09:22:37 AM
Can you get odds on McGuinness getting a knighthood/MBE in the next few years ?

Aye, long ones.  I notice it seems to have slipped by that our First Minister said he would not meet the Pope if he came to NI.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 06, 2014, 09:53:27 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 06, 2014, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 06, 2014, 09:22:37 AM
Can you get odds on McGuinness getting a knighthood/MBE in the next few years ?

Aye, long ones.  I notice it seems to have slipped by that our First Minister said he would not meet the Pope if he came to NI.

As big a c••t as Robbo is at least he is consistent
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 06, 2014, 10:32:24 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 06, 2014, 09:22:37 AM
Can you get odds on McGuinness getting a knighthood/MBE in the next few years ?

He has already been knighted

(http://11sixtynine.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/arise2bsir2bmartin2521.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on April 06, 2014, 11:18:31 AM
So one of Roisin's sons is off to England to see the Queen. Is the sky falling down yet ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 06, 2014, 07:15:23 PM
Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness has praised the Queen for her "leadership role" in the Irish peace process.

He made the remarks days ahead of an unprecedented state visit to Britain by Irish President Michael D Higgins.

Speaking to the Irish state broadcaster RTÉ on Sunday, Mr McGuinness said the Queen was a "staunch supporter" of the Irish peace process.

"I think she played a leadership role and is playing a leadership role in the whole context of the need for reconciliation," he said.


Mr McGuinness told RTÉ that he had been moved by words and deeds during her visit to the Republic of Ireland, the first by a British monarch in the history of the state.

"I was tremendously impressed by the very solemn way that she commemorated those Irish republicans who lost their lives in the struggle for independence, how she acknowledged the importance of the Irish language and, probably most important of all, when she acknowledged that she had wished that things had been done differently or not at all," he said.

"That was very, very impressive and I think that it is quite clear that this is a woman that is playing a leadership role."

In a party statement, Mr McGuinness said he had accepted the invitation "in the context of conflict resolution and of building reconciliation among the people of Ireland, and between the people of Ireland and the people of Britain".

"I am conscious that this decision is significant and involves political and symbolic challenges for Irish republicans.

"However, my presence alongside Peter Robinson brings an all-island dimension to this historic event which, it is worth noting, has taken all of 93 years to happen," he added.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 06, 2014, 07:46:32 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 06, 2014, 07:15:23 PM
Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness has praised the Queen for her "leadership role" in the Irish peace process.

He made the remarks days ahead of an unprecedented state visit to Britain by Irish President Michael D Higgins.

Speaking to the Irish state broadcaster RTÉ on Sunday, Mr McGuinness said the Queen was a "staunch supporter" of the Irish peace process.

"I think she played a leadership role and is playing a leadership role in the whole context of the need for reconciliation," he said.


Mr McGuinness told RTÉ that he had been moved by words and deeds during her visit to the Republic of Ireland, the first by a British monarch in the history of the state.

"I was tremendously impressed by the very solemn way that she commemorated those Irish republicans who lost their lives in the struggle for independence, how she acknowledged the importance of the Irish language and, probably most important of all, when she acknowledged that she had wished that things had been done differently or not at all," he said.

"That was very, very impressive and I think that it is quite clear that this is a woman that is playing a leadership role."

In a party statement, Mr McGuinness said he had accepted the invitation "in the context of conflict resolution and of building reconciliation among the people of Ireland, and between the people of Ireland and the people of Britain".

"I am conscious that this decision is significant and involves political and symbolic challenges for Irish republicans.

"However, my presence alongside Peter Robinson brings an all-island dimension to this historic event which, it is worth noting, has taken all of 93 years to happen," he added.
[/quote
I'd go with that the queens just back from rome in advance of a papal visit here, smoothing the way  and also negating the need for her to be here to welcome the pope here so the rome visit was nicely timed to avoid putting the queen between her fleg waving loyalusts and an official state visit.. Well planned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on April 06, 2014, 07:48:15 PM
So Peter Robinson has "no need nor desire to meet the Pope" on the basis that he (Robbo) is not a Catholic.  That's how you reach out to the middle class Fenians required to keep NI in the UK, Pete!  Keep up the good work!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 06, 2014, 09:29:03 PM
The SF supporters must have arrived early for the big bash.

A Queen's Guard pointed his rifle at a member of the public outside Buckingham Palace when an argument erupted with a police officer, it has emerged.


The soldier left his post to intervene when the man refused to stop shouting at the officer outside the palace gates on Friday.

A photograph published in The Sun on Sunday shows the guard pointing his bayonet-fixed rifle towards the man's face while stood next to the police officer.

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: "Police were made aware of a disturbance at the North-Centre Gate of Buckingham Palace at approximately 5.50pm on Friday, April 4.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 06, 2014, 10:20:29 PM
Michael, Martin & the Windsor gig - Jude Collins

When he wanted to know what the Irish people were thinking, de Valera is said to have gone off and looked into his own heart.  Not a particularly democratic way of working but sometimes it can unearth truths. Which is why I'm looking into my own heart with regard to the big Irish week coming up in Windsor.

I haven't been following it as closely as perhaps I should but the present Mrs Collins tells me that President Higgins will be bowling along in a carriage with Queen Elizabeth II. And I know that Martin McGuinness will be in attendance at some sort of soirée at Windsor during the week. Like a lot of Irish people I find myself instinctively recoiling from both events so let's see if I can figure out why and if I'm right to do so.

The image of Michael D along with Her Maj  in a carriage/coach I find totally unsurprising and a teensy bit comic. Michael D is the Irish president and a member of the Labour Party.  As president it's his job to meet foreign heads of state so I suppose he's doing his job. Why should I feel in any way uneasy about that? Because it suggests that Ireland and England are as friendly as they could possibly be, with nothing that might impede that friendship. Which patently isn't the case, since so many nationalists/republicans still feel that the six northern counties are part of Ireland and should be governed by Irish people. The obstacle to that is two-fold: Britain and the unionist people in the six counties. So while I know that getting into carriages with queens is part of the president's job, the symbolism of so doing, which suggests a happy no-fly-in-the-ointment harmony, makes me uneasy.

The image of Martin McGuinness attending a soirée at Windsor Castle makes me even more uneasy. A central plank – maybe the central plank – in Sinn Féin's philosophy is the right of the Irish people to govern themselves, free from British interference.  Rubbing shoulders with the head of the state which has for centuries seen to it that Irish people do not govern themselves sends a message to some that all is now forgiven and forgotten, and as I said in yesterday's blog, we've come to the end-point in the quarrel between England and Ireland. This patently isn't the case, so like, I suspect, a lot of other Irish people, I recoil  at the Deputy First Minister's move.

On the other hand, maybe this message is not for me or other Irish nationalists and republicans. Maybe it's directed at those who, like the Dublin taxi-driver I spoke of a few months back, see Sinn Féin as a party that goes around killing people. While that's obviously not the case, it's a notion that the media in the south have managed to lodge firmly in many people's minds. It may be that Sinn Féin figure Martin McGuinness's smiling  attendance at the nosh-up in Windsor Castle will help rebalance the thinking of those in the south who have been taught to view Sinn Féin as wild-eyed psychopaths. There's an election coming up in the south as well as the north and Sinn Féin are determined to emerge with an expanded electoral base. Martin at Windsor is part of that determination.

In the end, we need to ask ourselves " Does attendance  mean that Sinn Féin have changed their stance on reunification, are quietly preparing to saw off the anti-partition plank  in their political philosophy?" Those who are Sinn Féin critics will chorus "You bet!".  Others who see politics as much more than who you have dinner with will say "Sorry guys – wishful thinking again".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 08, 2014, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 06, 2014, 07:48:15 PM
So Peter Robinson has "no need nor desire to meet the Pope" on the basis that he (Robbo) is not a Catholic.  That's how you reach out to the middle class Fenians required to keep NI in the UK, Pete!  Keep up the good work!!

Robinson isn't looking for votes from anyone that thinks him meeting The Pope would be a good thing. Like everything else to date, he will only do it when forced to by London.

McGuinness and his party will be looking for votes from people who want to move on. But SF has an interesting leadership structure with Martin the Progressive and Gerry the counter-weight to Robinson. They seem to represent very different faces of SF and yet they seem in perfect harmony doing so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 08, 2014, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2014, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 06, 2014, 07:48:15 PM
So Peter Robinson has "no need nor desire to meet the Pope" on the basis that he (Robbo) is not a Catholic.  That's how you reach out to the middle class Fenians required to keep NI in the UK, Pete!  Keep up the good work!!

Robinson isn't looking for votes from anyone that thinks him meeting The Pope would be a good thing. Like everything else to date, he will only do it when forced to by London.

McGuinness and his party will be looking for votes from people who want to move on. But SF has an interesting leadership structure with Martin the Progressive and Gerry the counter-weight to Robinson. They seem to represent very different faces of SF and yet they seem in perfect harmony doing so.
It would be naive to think that this decision didn't go through Adams too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 08, 2014, 08:03:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 08, 2014, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2014, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 06, 2014, 07:48:15 PM
So Peter Robinson has "no need nor desire to meet the Pope" on the basis that he (Robbo) is not a Catholic.  That's how you reach out to the middle class Fenians required to keep NI in the UK, Pete!  Keep up the good work!!

Robinson isn't looking for votes from anyone that thinks him meeting The Pope would be a good thing. Like everything else to date, he will only do it when forced to by London.

McGuinness and his party will be looking for votes from people who want to move on. But SF has an interesting leadership structure with Martin the Progressive and Gerry the counter-weight to Robinson. They seem to represent very different faces of SF and yet they seem in perfect harmony doing so.
It would be naive to think that this decision didn't go through Adams too.

Like I said - perfect harmony.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on April 08, 2014, 08:07:16 PM
Former hunger striker and senior Sinn Féin adviser sues party

Irish Times - Gerry Moriarty

An ex-IRA hunger striker and formerly one of Sinn Féin's most senior advisers is taking a discrimination and unfair dismissal case against the party.

Leo Green, who surprisingly left his post as Sinn Féin's political director at Stormont in February is suing his party on a number of grounds, the North's Fair Employment Tribunal has confirmed.
Mr Green, who spent 83 days fasting in the 1980 hunger strike, is claiming discrimination for holding a political opinion, unfair dismissal and breach of contract.

He is taking the case through the Fair Employment Tribunal and the Industrial Tribunal. A tribunal spokesman said proceedings were at an early stage and the case is yet to be listed.
A Sinn Féin spokesman also confirmed the claims have been lodged to the tribunals.
"Sinn Féin will be contesting this. I do not want to say anything that will prejudice this case," he added.

Leo Green was arrested in 1977 and jailed for the murder of an RUC officer, spending more than 17 years in prison.
His "on-the-run" brother John Francis, a senior IRA member, was shot dead by the UVF near Castleblayney, Co Monaghan in 1975.
Leo Green was viewed as one of Sinn Féin's most senior strategists and advisors. His leaving his political director post and the discrimination case has caused great surprise in political circles.
A Sinn Féin spokesman said Mr Green was the first member to take such a case against the party.
Rumours of some internal discord first came to notice at the Sinn Féin ardfheis in February where Mr Green was noticeable by his absence. As well as leaving his post as director of political affairs at Stormont there was also speculation he had quit the party.

He personally dampened speculation by telling UTV and the BBC that he remained a Sinn Féin member, a fact confirmed at the Wexford ardfheis by the party. A party spokesman said this information was accurate and that Mr Green remains a Sinn Féin member.
It is very seldom that Sinn Féin washes its dirty linen in public and the fact that Mr Green is taking this discrimination case prompted further speculation about internal quarrels within the party.
In February the DUP social development Minister Nelson McCausland noting that he hadn't seen Mr Green "in the corridors at Stormont for the past few weeks" claimed that "behind that polished façade Sinn Féin is a party in disarray".

Notwithstanding his paramilitary past Mr Green was described as a Sinn Féin "progressive" at Stormont willing to make pragmatic decisions to keep politics moving forward. His disagreement with Sinn Féin is also being linked to claims by First Minister Peter Robinson last week that Sinn Féin was placing its electoral ambitions in the South ahead of its interests in the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 08, 2014, 08:38:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2014, 06:31:51 PM
McGuinness and his party will be looking for votes from people who want to move on.

They will be looking for votes from the south in particular, and it will doubtless work with some of them. But if the treatment of Martin McGuinness, (a man who literally made peace many years ago), during the presidential election proved anything, it's that where republicans are concerned, there is a large chunk of the population in the south who are about as ready and willing to "move on" from the past as the average Twadell Avenue flegger.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on April 08, 2014, 08:44:19 PM
Tonight couldn't have been scripted by George Orwell if he tried. It's an absolute nonsense that McGuinness is currently at Windsor Castle feasting away and acting as if it's in the best interests of the peace process.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 08, 2014, 08:56:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2014, 06:31:51 PM
SF has an interesting leadership structure with Martin the Progressive and Gerry the counter-weight to Robinson. They seem to represent very different faces of SF and yet they seem in perfect harmony doing so.
Of course Martin was in the IRA while Gerry on the other hand......... ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 08, 2014, 09:07:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 08, 2014, 08:38:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2014, 06:31:51 PM
McGuinness and his party will be looking for votes from people who want to move on.

They will be looking for votes from the south in particular, and it will doubtless work with some of them. But if the treatment of Martin McGuinness, (a man who literally made peace many years ago), during the presidential election proved anything, it's that where republicans are concerned, there is a large chunk of the population in the south who are about as ready and willing to "move on" from the past as the average Twadell Avenue flegger.

Quotethe treatment of Martin McGuinness

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Are you sure politics is the right calling for such sensitive creatures?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 08, 2014, 09:40:49 PM
McGuinness all ready to toast the Queen - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26947472

You can but laugh at all the 'stoop' insults thrown about over the years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 08, 2014, 09:43:34 PM
Quote from: stibhan on April 08, 2014, 08:44:19 PM
Tonight couldn't have been scripted by George Orwell if he tried. It's an absolute nonsense that McGuinness is currently at Windsor Castle feasting away and acting as if it's in the best interests of the peace process.
But to refuse the invitation would have been an open goal, no? It is a bit damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 08, 2014, 09:44:57 PM
Spotlight will be interesting tonight, 10.35pm on BBC1. Sean "Spike" Murray accused of arranging the arms from America, during the peace process.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 08, 2014, 10:05:53 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 08, 2014, 09:43:34 PM
Quote from: stibhan on April 08, 2014, 08:44:19 PM
Tonight couldn't have been scripted by George Orwell if he tried. It's an absolute nonsense that McGuinness is currently at Windsor Castle feasting away and acting as if it's in the best interests of the peace process.
But to refuse the invitation would have been an open goal, no? It is a bit damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Exactly my thoughts on the matter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 08, 2014, 10:11:05 PM
We've all had a wee suckle at britania's breast in times of need.. Slurp  burp.. Work benefits eduaction business..
A weekend in london.. A westend show, a bit of shopping.. Its intoxicating and exciting.. The energy of the place its like standing under an electricity pylon l love it.

I have more blood relations in england than I have here I dont want to be fighting with them. I  welcome any improvement in relations between ireland and britain. Fairplay to all concerned..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: under the bar on April 08, 2014, 10:22:44 PM
QuoteSpotlight will be interesting tonight, 10.35pm on BBC1. Sean "Spike" Murray accused of arranging the arms from America, during the peace process.

Strange how the BBC spends 90% of its 'paramilitary organisations' focus time retrospectively looking at the only organisation that has maintained it's ceasefire and stood down! :/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 08, 2014, 11:21:27 PM
Northern Ireland deputy first minister and former IRA leader Martin McGuinness has joined in a toast to the Queen during a state banquet at Windsor Castle. Mr McGuinness stood for the toast, proposed by Irish President Michael D Higgins, as an orchestra played God Save The Queen

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26948080
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gold on April 08, 2014, 11:27:04 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 08, 2014, 09:44:57 PM
Spotlight will be interesting tonight, 10.35pm on BBC1. Sean "Spike" Murray accused of arranging the arms from America, during the peace process.

Lou Carpenter is in it up to his neck
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: maximus on April 09, 2014, 01:00:02 AM
Does anybody feel it's a contradiction that Martin McGuinness stands for a toast to the queen yet Sinn Fein refuse to take their seats in Westminster. Just wondering what the general opinion is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 01:03:50 AM
Quote from: maximus on April 09, 2014, 01:00:02 AM
Does anybody feel it's a contradiction that Martin McGuinness stands for a toast to the queen yet Sinn Fein refuse to take their seats in Westminster. Just wondering what the general opinion is.

Who cares anymore ? Fair play to him. He's a politician and ex freedom fighter - that's what politicians and ex freedom fighters do isn't it ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 01:10:35 AM
Quote from: maximus on April 09, 2014, 01:00:02 AM
Does anybody feel it's a contradiction that Martin McGuinness stands for a toast to the queen yet Sinn Fein refuse to take their seats in Westminster. Just wondering what the general opinion is.
Raising a glass to someone and swearing an oath of allegience to them are two very different things (neither of which I'd support McGuinness doing right now).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:54:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 01:10:35 AM
Quote from: maximus on April 09, 2014, 01:00:02 AM
Does anybody feel it's a contradiction that Martin McGuinness stands for a toast to the queen yet Sinn Fein refuse to take their seats in Westminster. Just wondering what the general opinion is.
Raising a glass to someone and swearing an oath of allegience to them are two very different things (neither of which I'd support McGuinness doing right now).
Meh, they're both just protocol.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 09, 2014, 08:46:38 AM
Absoluely not, when you are in Britain it is right to observe the protocols. It is quite a different prospect to take an oath to the Monarch and take your seat in what is still essentially a foreign parliament.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 08:57:52 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:54:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 01:10:35 AM
Quote from: maximus on April 09, 2014, 01:00:02 AM
Does anybody feel it's a contradiction that Martin McGuinness stands for a toast to the queen yet Sinn Fein refuse to take their seats in Westminster. Just wondering what the general opinion is.
Raising a glass to someone and swearing an oath of allegience to them are two very different things (neither of which I'd support McGuinness doing right now).
Meh, they're both just protocol.
I'm sure you'd still be playing it down as such if it actually happened too eh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 10:38:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.

It depends on the state you're in. A Belfast city councillor ended up in court recently for stuff she put on Facebook similar to this. Ok she ended up with her wrists slapped but Tebitt would get more of a by ball than a DUP councillor.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 09, 2014, 10:46:18 AM
A very good article by Tommy McKearney that is worth reading


http://www.tommymckearney.com/blog-/finlandization.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 09, 2014, 10:54:15 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.

Atrocious comment from Tebbit. I'd expect some negative reaction to that in any reasonable circles.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 10:38:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.

It depends on the state you're in. A Belfast city councillor ended up in court recently for stuff she put on Facebook similar to this. Ok she ended up with her wrists slapped but Tebitt would get more of a by ball than a DUP councillor.
Tebbit is a senior public figure advocating the assassination of one of Ireland's most senior politicians. There is just no good reason under the sun why he should get a by ball. What's RTÉ's excuse? Surely in their blanket coverage, with 'live updates' on their website, such a story should be fairly big? Why does it not even warrant a mention?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 11:15:52 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 10:38:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.

It depends on the state you're in. A Belfast city councillor ended up in court recently for stuff she put on Facebook similar to this. Ok she ended up with her wrists slapped but Tebitt would get more of a by ball than a DUP councillor.
Tebbit is a senior public figure advocating the assassination of one of Ireland's most senior politicians. There is just no good reason under the sun why he should get a by ball. What's RTÉ's excuse? Surely in their blanket coverage, with 'live updates' on their website, such a story should be fairly big? Why does it not even warrant a mention?

The press are managed. We know that better than most here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:42:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 08:57:52 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:54:34 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 01:10:35 AM
Quote from: maximus on April 09, 2014, 01:00:02 AM
Does anybody feel it's a contradiction that Martin McGuinness stands for a toast to the queen yet Sinn Fein refuse to take their seats in Westminster. Just wondering what the general opinion is.
Raising a glass to someone and swearing an oath of allegience to them are two very different things (neither of which I'd support McGuinness doing right now).
Meh, they're both just protocol.
I'm sure you'd still be playing it down as such if it actually happened too eh?
I'd have a chuckle, same as i'm having now. But i'd be in favour of them taking their seats.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
I don't know about RTÉ, but it's on BBC online and radio and on plenty of other news websites.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 09, 2014, 08:46:38 AM
Absoluely not, when you are in Britain it is right to observe the protocols. It is quite a different prospect to take an oath to the Monarch and take your seat in what is still essentially a foreign parliament.
It's the parliament that gives the Assembly its power. And you might define it as a foreign parliament, but it still passes laws that impact on people in this country.

And you totally contradict yourself with the bit in bold.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 09, 2014, 07:17:04 PM
Putting aside all previous debates here, I must acknowledge the gravity of McGuinness' participation and I commend it unconditionally.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
I don't know about RTÉ, but it's on BBC online and radio and on plenty of other news websites.
BBC went with it on their online news at 5:36 according to their news app. For most of the day, only the Belfast Telegraph was mentioning it. Still nothing from RTÉ.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
I don't know about RTÉ, but it's on BBC online and radio and on plenty of other news websites.
BBC went with it on their online news at 5:36 according to their news app. For most of the day, only the Belfast Telegraph was mentioning it. Still nothing from RTÉ.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0409/607832-martin-mcguinness/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 10, 2014, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
I don't know about RTÉ, but it's on BBC online and radio and on plenty of other news websites.
BBC went with it on their online news at 5:36 according to their news app. For most of the day, only the Belfast Telegraph was mentioning it. Still nothing from RTÉ.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0409/607832-martin-mcguinness/
An so they got there. Eventually.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 10, 2014, 08:39:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 10, 2014, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
I don't know about RTÉ, but it's on BBC online and radio and on plenty of other news websites.
BBC went with it on their online news at 5:36 according to their news app. For most of the day, only the Belfast Telegraph was mentioning it. Still nothing from RTÉ.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0409/607832-martin-mcguinness/
An so they got there. Eventually.

Since 16:45, which was 5 hours before your post saying they hadn't mentioned it. But you carry on carrying that chip.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 10, 2014, 08:44:02 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 10, 2014, 08:39:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 10, 2014, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
I don't know about RTÉ, but it's on BBC online and radio and on plenty of other news websites.
BBC went with it on their online news at 5:36 according to their news app. For most of the day, only the Belfast Telegraph was mentioning it. Still nothing from RTÉ.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0409/607832-martin-mcguinness/
An so they got there. Eventually.

Since 16:45, which was 5 hours before your post saying they hadn't mentioned it. But you carry on carrying that chip.

Next they will be telling us he was given a black card.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on April 10, 2014, 09:03:26 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 10, 2014, 08:44:02 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 10, 2014, 08:39:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 10, 2014, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
I don't know about RTÉ, but it's on BBC online and radio and on plenty of other news websites.
BBC went with it on their online news at 5:36 according to their news app. For most of the day, only the Belfast Telegraph was mentioning it. Still nothing from RTÉ.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0409/607832-martin-mcguinness/
An so they got there. Eventually.

Since 16:45, which was 5 hours before your post saying they hadn't mentioned it. But you carry on carrying that chip.

Next they will be telling us he was given a black card.

That's a red any day of the week! ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 10, 2014, 10:05:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 10, 2014, 08:39:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 10, 2014, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
I don't know about RTÉ, but it's on BBC online and radio and on plenty of other news websites.
BBC went with it on their online news at 5:36 according to their news app. For most of the day, only the Belfast Telegraph was mentioning it. Still nothing from RTÉ.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0409/607832-martin-mcguinness/
An so they got there. Eventually.

Since 16:45, which was 5 hours before your post saying they hadn't mentioned it. But you carry on carrying that chip.
...and over twelve hours after the words were spoken. On the ball alright. Sorry it seems to bother you that I mention it, and so many other things, but you keep on carrying that chip  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 10, 2014, 07:04:26 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 10, 2014, 10:05:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 10, 2014, 08:39:53 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 10, 2014, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 09, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 09, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 09, 2014, 09:00:11 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/norman-tebbit-i-hope-real-ira-dissidents-shoot-martin-mcguinness-for-attending-state-banquet-with-queen-at-windsor-castle-30168143.html

He would say that.
Indeed. But I'd have thought that a member of the house of lords expressing a desire for the deputy first minister to be assassinated, would make the news coverage beyond just the Belfast Telegraph. Not a peep from BBC/RTÉ etc.
I don't know about RTÉ, but it's on BBC online and radio and on plenty of other news websites.
BBC went with it on their online news at 5:36 according to their news app. For most of the day, only the Belfast Telegraph was mentioning it. Still nothing from RTÉ.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0409/607832-martin-mcguinness/
An so they got there. Eventually.

Since 16:45, which was 5 hours before your post saying they hadn't mentioned it. But you carry on carrying that chip.
...and over twelve hours after the words were spoken. On the ball alright. Sorry it seems to bother you that I mention it, and so many other things, but you keep on carrying that chip  :)
There are times when you should just hold your hands up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 10, 2014, 07:09:55 PM
Looks like they've got a taste for it now - no stopping them!

Martin McGuinness ‏@M_McGuinness_SF  8h
I've sent for reinforcements - @newbelfast @conormurphymp @FrancieMolloy @CaralNiChuilin @JohnODowdSF @moneillsf joining me in London.#Peace

All off to Windsor for a big feed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 10, 2014, 07:17:21 PM
O'Muilleor said it is an "honour" to be involved  :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2014, 07:31:43 PM
I hope all that rich food doesn't upset their proletarian stomachs too much.
After all when you're living on the "average industrial wage".... :-X
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pangurban on April 10, 2014, 07:54:43 PM
Mother England loves them still
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2014, 08:36:29 PM
Some lads gone very quiet around here.......





Maybe they're over there stuffin themselves too
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on April 10, 2014, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 09, 2014, 07:17:04 PM
Putting aside all previous debates here, I must acknowledge the gravity of McGuinness' participation and I commend it unconditionally.

I wouldn't class myself as a "Shinner" and I don't vote Sinn Fein but would be of a broadly republican outlook (factoring in that I'm a paranoid Nordie ;)) and I think McGuinness was right to do what he did and I tip my hat to him for showing a bit of leadership.  Fair play to ye our kid!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 10, 2014, 09:57:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 10, 2014, 07:09:55 PM
Looks like they've got a taste for it now - no stopping them!

Martin McGuinness ‏@M_McGuinness_SF  8h
I've sent for reinforcements - @newbelfast @conormurphymp @FrancieMolloy @CaralNiChuilin @JohnODowdSF @moneillsf joining me in London.#Peace

All off to Windsor for a big feed.

It's all about ego for a lot of the Shinners now
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 10, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Think the SF leadership have once again shown real leadership.The first time an Irish President has been invited on an official visit to Britain the Northern SF leadership are represented on an equal footing as the other TDs from the south showing this is a visit for the 32 counties not just the 26.The tricolour flying and our National anthem being played alongside the flag and anthem of the country of the visit.The British establishment after visiting the Garden of Remembrance 3 years ago now saying they will join us in commemorating the 1916 rising.The times they are changing,in 4 weeks we could have SF representation in every one of the 32 counties of this Island something that has never happened before and they could possibly be the biggist party regarding votes in Ireland.Great times to be a Shinner and can understand why it must stick in the throats of the Anti men. :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 10, 2014, 10:23:53 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 10, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Think the SF leadership have once again shown real leadership.The first time an Irish President has been invited on an official visit to Britain the Northern SF leadership are represented on an equal footing as the other TDs from the south showing this is a visit for the 32 counties not just the 26.The tricolour flying and our National anthem being played alongside the flag and anthem of the country of the visit.The British establishment after visiting the Garden of Remembrance 3 years ago now saying they will join us in commemorating the 1916 rising.The times they are changing,in 4 weeks we could have SF representation in every one of the 32 counties of this Island something that has never happened before and they could possibly be the biggist party regarding votes in Ireland.Great times to be a Shinner and can understand why it must stick in the throats of the Anti men. :-[ :-[ :-[

Like I said, McGuinness certainly has shown leadership this week.

Real leadership is more often about telling the troops what they don't want to hear, rather than the easy alternative.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 10, 2014, 10:26:06 PM
They will be sitting in Westminster within 5 years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 10, 2014, 10:32:25 PM
The Shinners know they are doing something right when,the free staters,the DUP!Jamie Bryson,Tebbit and the dissidents are all agreeing with each other.Sinn Fein Abu. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 10, 2014, 10:38:41 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 10, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Think the SF leadership have once again shown real leadership
Given that Martin was so impressed by the Queen's visit to Ireland - a visit SF boycotted- and that this is what convinced him to accept this week's invitation, doesn't this make them followers rather than leaders? That along with the fact that they're the last of the Irish parties to meet British royalty, and that many of their supporters here sneered at those who went there ahead of them...
Still, better late than never... and great leadership to the extent that the likes of yourself is convinced.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 11, 2014, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 10, 2014, 10:38:41 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 10, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Think the SF leadership have once again shown real leadership
Given that Martin was so impressed by the Queen's visit to Ireland - a visit SF boycotted- and that this is what convinced him to accept this week's invitation, doesn't this make them followers rather than leaders? That along with the fact that they're the last of the Irish parties to meet British royalty, and that many of their supporters here sneered at those who went there ahead of them...
Still, better late than never... and great leadership to the extent that the likes of yourself is convinced.

Forgot about the Stoops,no big difference in being invited and doing it as an equal not running over and taking an oath of obedience to get £60k a year.SF decided on this for many reasons and as I said earlier the big change was the Queens visit 3 years ago and her honouring our dead at the Garden of Remembrance.Leadership is more than bowing the head when asked its about knowing when the time is right to make certain decisions but as a stoop you may find that hard to comprehend.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 11, 2014, 01:51:58 PM
I applaude McGuinness and SF for the way they have made this event about the whole of Ireland. In doing so they have shown Robbo and co up for the small minded stuck in the past biggots they are. It must be unsettling for Unionists though to see the Republic and UK governments co-operating as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 11, 2014, 02:01:38 PM
Glens Abu, as you stated there Sinn Fein has shown leadership; however is it Republican leadership?

Take a look into your soul and stop following your leadership.If McGuinness has declined to attend this week would you have been supportive? What differences are there between now and three years ago? Did you support the Sinn Fein Mayor of Cashel meeting the queen of England three years ago? They have bent there knee on yet another occasion and sold every principle that they held dear down the tube. Everything they have done this week has flew in the faces of what being Republican is.

Showing leadership and showing Republican leadership is two different things.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 11, 2014, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 11, 2014, 02:01:38 PM
however is it Republican leadership?

Everything they have done this week has flew in the faces of what being Republican is.

Showing leadership and showing Republican leadership is two different things.
[/quote

Have they become Monarchists or what?
Maybe you could enlighten us all as to what "being Republican" or "Republican leadership" is?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 11, 2014, 03:11:48 PM
Delighted to be a shinner this week. Things in britain are going nicely with the state visit and marty has proved a leader and statesman putting his country before his own feelings. Meanwhile at home mary lou continues to excell in the media on her public accounts role. Plus john o dowd understanding and handling of eduacation makes him the most popular minister with teachers.

Roll on the elections hope this good work translates into votes

Incidently did I read that greece have sold government bonds at a lower interest rate than ireland  so much for endas "great work"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 11, 2014, 03:18:58 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 11, 2014, 03:11:48 PM
did I read that
Highly unlikely I would think
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ludermor on April 11, 2014, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 11, 2014, 03:11:48 PM
Delighted to be a shinner this week. Things in britain are going nicely with the state visit and marty has proved a leader and statesman putting his country before his own feelings. Meanwhile at home mary lou continues to excell in the media on her public accounts role. Plus john o dowd understanding and handling of eduacation makes him the most popular minister with teachers.

Roll on the elections hope this good work translates into votes

Incidently did I read that greece have sold government bonds at a lower interest rate than ireland  so much for endas "great work"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-10/euro-area-bonds-advance-before-greece-ireland-sell-securities.html
Greek 10-year bonds fell for the first time in thee days, with yields climbing five basis points to 5.94 percent after declining to 5.80 percent yesterday.
The Irish 10-year yield dropped three basis points to 2.92 percent after declining to 2.894 percent, the lowest level since Bloomberg began tracking the securities in 1991
Im sure you will be as quick to priase Enda for his 'great work'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on April 11, 2014, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 11, 2014, 03:11:48 PM
Delighted to be a shinner this week. Things in britain are going nicely with the state visit and marty has proved a leader and statesman putting his country before his own feelings. Meanwhile at home mary lou continues to excell in the media on her public accounts role. Plus john o dowd understanding and handling of eduacation makes him the most popular minister with teachers.

Roll on the elections hope this good work translates into votes

Incidently did I read that greece have sold government bonds at a lower interest rate than ireland  so much for endas "great work"

:)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 11, 2014, 04:17:31 PM
Quote from: ludermor on April 11, 2014, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 11, 2014, 03:11:48 PM
Delighted to be a shinner this week. Things in britain are going nicely with the state visit and marty has proved a leader and statesman putting his country before his own feelings. Meanwhile at home mary lou continues to excell in the media on her public accounts role. Plus john o dowd understanding and handling of eduacation makes him the most popular minister with teachers.

Roll on the elections hope this good work translates into votes

Incidently did I read that greece have sold government bonds at a lower interest rate than ireland  so much for endas "great work"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-10/euro-area-bonds-advance-before-greece-ireland-sell-securities.html
Greek 10-year bonds fell for the first time in thee days, with yields climbing five basis points to 5.94 percent after declining to 5.80 percent yesterday.
The Irish 10-year yield dropped three basis points to 2.92 percent after declining to 2.894 percent, the lowest level since Bloomberg began tracking the securities in 1991
Im sure you will be as quick to priase Enda for his 'great work'.
Yeah great work gimp
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 09:54:44 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 11, 2014, 02:01:38 PM
Glens Abu, as you stated there Sinn Fein has shown leadership; however is it Republican leadership?

Take a look into your soul and stop following your leadership.If McGuinness has declined to attend this week would you have been supportive? What differences are there between now and three years ago? Did you support the Sinn Fein Mayor of Cashel meeting the queen of England three years ago? They have bent there knee on yet another occasion and sold every principle that they held dear down the tube. Everything they have done this week has flew in the faces of what being Republican is.

Showing leadership and showing Republican leadership is two different things.
I'm at the far end of the nationalist spectrum to you, and I don't know how you can objectively define what 'republican leadership' is, but that bit in bold is the nail on the head.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 10:02:58 AM
Quote from: glens abu on April 11, 2014, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 10, 2014, 10:38:41 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 10, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Think the SF leadership have once again shown real leadership
Given that Martin was so impressed by the Queen's visit to Ireland - a visit SF boycotted- and that this is what convinced him to accept this week's invitation, doesn't this make them followers rather than leaders? That along with the fact that they're the last of the Irish parties to meet British royalty, and that many of their supporters here sneered at those who went there ahead of them...
Still, better late than never... and great leadership to the extent that the likes of yourself is convinced.

Forgot about the Stoops,no big difference in being invited and doing it as an equal not running over and taking an oath of obedience to get £60k a year.SF decided on this for many reasons and as I said earlier the big change was the Queens visit 3 years ago and her honouring our dead at the Garden of Remembrance.Leadership is more than bowing the head when asked its about knowing when the time is right to make certain decisions but as a stoop you may find that hard to comprehend.
The SDLP take the oath affirmation as a requirement to take the seats their the electorate have elected them to. If it was optional, i'm sure they wouldn't bother. It's protocol - a requirement to sit in parliament and speak and vote on behalf of those who elected you. In the same way that standing for GSTQ and toasting the Queen is the protocol and requirement when dining at Windsor. You can try and make distinctions, but you're dancing on the head of a pin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 10:05:19 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 11, 2014, 03:11:48 PM
Delighted to be a shinner this week. Things in britain are going nicely with the state visit and marty has proved a leader and statesman putting his country before his own feelings.
So Marty didn't think it was the right thing for himself or SF, but for his country? Truly selfless.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Man Marker on April 12, 2014, 10:35:53 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 10:02:58 AM
Quote from: glens abu on April 11, 2014, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 10, 2014, 10:38:41 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 10, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Think the SF leadership have once again shown real leadership
Given that Martin was so impressed by the Queen's visit to Ireland - a visit SF boycotted- and that this is what convinced him to accept this week's invitation, doesn't this make them followers rather than leaders? That along with the fact that they're the last of the Irish parties to meet British royalty, and that many of their supporters here sneered at those who went there ahead of them...
Still, better late than never... and great leadership to the extent that the likes of yourself is convinced.


Forgot about the Stoops,no big difference in being invited and doing it as an equal not running over and taking an oath of obedience to get £60k a year.SF decided on this for many reasons and as I said earlier the big change was the Queens visit 3 years ago and her honouring our dead at the Garden of Remembrance.Leadership is more than bowing the head when asked its about knowing when the time is right to make certain decisions but as a stoop you may find that hard to comprehend.
The SDLP take the oath affirmation as a requirement to take the seats their the electorate have elected them to. If it was optional, i'm sure they wouldn't bother. It's protocol - a requirement to sit in parliament and speak and vote on behalf of those who elected you. In the same way that standing for GSTQ and toasting the Queen is the protocol and requirement when dining at Windsor. You can try and make distinctions, but you're dancing on the head of a pin.

We will see at election time, if it is standing on the head of a pin, at election time the voters know we won't take that oath you refer to or will we stand shoulder to shoulder in Westminster.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 11:12:09 AM
Quote from: Man Marker on April 12, 2014, 10:35:53 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 10:02:58 AM
Quote from: glens abu on April 11, 2014, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 10, 2014, 10:38:41 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 10, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Think the SF leadership have once again shown real leadership
Given that Martin was so impressed by the Queen's visit to Ireland - a visit SF boycotted- and that this is what convinced him to accept this week's invitation, doesn't this make them followers rather than leaders? That along with the fact that they're the last of the Irish parties to meet British royalty, and that many of their supporters here sneered at those who went there ahead of them...
Still, better late than never... and great leadership to the extent that the likes of yourself is convinced.


Forgot about the Stoops,no big difference in being invited and doing it as an equal not running over and taking an oath of obedience to get £60k a year.SF decided on this for many reasons and as I said earlier the big change was the Queens visit 3 years ago and her honouring our dead at the Garden of Remembrance.Leadership is more than bowing the head when asked its about knowing when the time is right to make certain decisions but as a stoop you may find that hard to comprehend.
The SDLP take the oath affirmation as a requirement to take the seats their the electorate have elected them to. If it was optional, i'm sure they wouldn't bother. It's protocol - a requirement to sit in parliament and speak and vote on behalf of those who elected you. In the same way that standing for GSTQ and toasting the Queen is the protocol and requirement when dining at Windsor. You can try and make distinctions, but you're dancing on the head of a pin.

We will see at election time, if it is standing on the head of a pin, at election time the voters know we won't take that oath you refer to or will we stand shoulder to shoulder in Westminster.
I don't think it's a significant factor for most nationalist voters - given that a proportion of SF's rise over the past 10-15 years can be attributed to former SDLP voters, who obviously had little difficulty with the SDLP taking their seats in Westminster when they voted SDLP. Therefore on this particular topic, I don't think the election will tell us anything. It's a point of little significance, but will be used as a fig leaf by those who want to play down certain events of the past week.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 12:08:57 PM
Amusing when you read back on the thread about the 2011 visit to Ireland - all the references to her being the Head of the Armed Forces, absent from this week's visit.

Back in 2010:
"Sinn Fein opposes the proposed state visit of the Queen of England, commander-in-chief of the British armed forces," said TD Caoimhghin O Caolain.

"Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank," he continued.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10421223

Looks like the goalposts have moved.

And a few from our own posters:
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 27, 2010, 02:20:00 PM
I watched on TV the other night the discussions in the Seanad about this. Members were tripping over themselves to talk about how it would be an honour to have the English Queen visit and speak of their aspirations to have her visit their own areas. I was bubbling with anger because I couldnt's stop thinking about the families, including neighbours of my own, who lost people to collusion and were possibly watching that. I know where my support lies.
...given the Lord Mayor's reference to the "honour" of taking part in this week's events, i'm sure Nally was "bubbling with anger".

Not to mention the anger over the visit to the Garden of Remembrance - the very act used to justify the decision to accept the invitation this week...
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2011, 03:41:59 PM
Irishmen & Woman standing with/kissing the ass of the British Queen, with the British National Anthem playing, in a garden of Remembrance for those who died in the unfinished struggle for Independence. HOW MATURE ARE WE!!!? ::) Can't help but think of the Patriots who must be turning in their graves.

And lawnseed, so "delighted" to be a Shinner this week, had this to say:
Quote from: lawnseed on June 27, 2010, 01:57:15 AM
Finally this whole thing will go down well cause Irish people are stupid- they take it up the arse. it doesn't matter whether its the queen, the Irish chieftains, the politicians, the clergy, the bankers, the landlords, the Brits, the yanks etc etc we've been doing it since the vikings
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 12, 2014, 01:14:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 12:08:57 PM
Amusing when you read back on the thread about the 2011 visit to Ireland - all the references to her being the Head of the Armed Forces, absent from this week's visit.

Back in 2010:
"Sinn Fein opposes the proposed state visit of the Queen of England, commander-in-chief of the British armed forces," said TD Caoimhghin O Caolain.

"Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank," he continued.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10421223

Looks like the goalposts have moved.

And a few from our own posters:
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 27, 2010, 02:20:00 PM
I watched on TV the other night the discussions in the Seanad about this. Members were tripping over themselves to talk about how it would be an honour to have the English Queen visit and speak of their aspirations to have her visit their own areas. I was bubbling with anger because I couldnt's stop thinking about the families, including neighbours of my own, who lost people to collusion and were possibly watching that. I know where my support lies.
...given the Lord Mayor's reference to the "honour" of taking part in this week's events, i'm sure Nally was "bubbling with anger".

Not to mention the anger over the visit to the Garden of Remembrance - the very act used to justify the decision to accept the invitation this week...
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2011, 03:41:59 PM
Irishmen & Woman standing with/kissing the ass of the British Queen, with the British National Anthem playing, in a garden of Remembrance for those who died in the unfinished struggle for Independence. HOW MATURE ARE WE!!!? ::) Can't help but think of the Patriots who must be turning in their graves.

And lawnseed, so "delighted" to be a Shinner this week, had this to say:
Quote from: lawnseed on June 27, 2010, 01:57:15 AM
Finally this whole thing will go down well cause Irish people are stupid- they take it up the arse. it doesn't matter whether its the queen, the Irish chieftains, the politicians, the clergy, the bankers, the landlords, the Brits, the yanks etc etc we've been doing it since the vikings

Had a read through that thread myself and the Sinn Fein position has fairly changed all right in regards to the Queen and to truth and justice.

When opposing the visit a couple of years ago they said this:

"Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank,"

And then on the day they raised their glass to the Queen as the band played "God save the queen", they said this:

Francie Molloy, a senior Sinn Fein politician, said the time had come to draw a line under all past activities by acknowledging an amnesty for terrorists and members of the Armed Forces alike.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 12, 2014, 01:19:55 PM
Good man Francie, that's the stuff alright. Time to move on and let bygones be bygones.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 12, 2014, 03:09:07 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 12, 2014, 01:19:55 PM
Told man Francie, that's the stuff alright. Time to move on and let bygones be bygones.

Who does Francie say are the armed forces and terrorists?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 12, 2014, 03:38:40 PM
In fairness to Nally Stand he said the other day he didn't agree with McGuinness going to meet the Queen, glens abu on the other hand.............
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 12, 2014, 07:58:55 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 12, 2014, 01:19:55 PM
Good man Francie, that's the stuff alright. Time to move on and let bygones be bygones.

What about the families of those killed who are seeking the truth, and maybe a day in court?

Should they move on and let bygones be bygones?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 12, 2014, 09:59:29 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 12, 2014, 07:58:55 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 12, 2014, 01:19:55 PM
Good man Francie, that's the stuff alright. Time to move on and let bygones be bygones.

What about the families of those killed who are seeking the truth, and maybe a day in court?

Should they move on and let bygones be bygones?

Whilst they certainly do, this isn't on the agenda of the government and the recent utterings / mutterings etc show that the governments want the pasr to remain in the past and to move on and build a better future. It won't suit a lot of people to look in detail at went on here and in other places, 40 years ago.

It's all a matter of timing it seems.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on April 12, 2014, 10:56:01 PM
Not sure why you're quoting me there Maguire. I stated a few days ago that I don't support McGuinness' move.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 11:57:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on April 12, 2014, 10:56:01 PM
Not sure why you're quoting me there Maguire. I stated a few days ago that I don't support McGuinness' move.
Maybe, but you don't seem quite so exercised this time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 12:08:57 PM
Amusing when you read back on the thread about the 2011 visit to Ireland - all the references to her being the Head of the Armed Forces, absent from this week's visit.

Back in 2010:
"Sinn Fein opposes the proposed state visit of the Queen of England, commander-in-chief of the British armed forces," said TD Caoimhghin O Caolain.

"Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank," he continued.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10421223

Looks like the goalposts have moved.

And a few from our own posters:
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 27, 2010, 02:20:00 PM
I watched on TV the other night the discussions in the Seanad about this. Members were tripping over themselves to talk about how it would be an honour to have the English Queen visit and speak of their aspirations to have her visit their own areas. I was bubbling with anger because I couldnt's stop thinking about the families, including neighbours of my own, who lost people to collusion and were possibly watching that. I know where my support lies.
...given the Lord Mayor's reference to the "honour" of taking part in this week's events, i'm sure Nally was "bubbling with anger".

Not to mention the anger over the visit to the Garden of Remembrance - the very act used to justify the decision to accept the invitation this week...
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2011, 03:41:59 PM
Irishmen & Woman standing with/kissing the ass of the British Queen, with the British National Anthem playing, in a garden of Remembrance for those who died in the unfinished struggle for Independence. HOW MATURE ARE WE!!!? ::) Can't help but think of the Patriots who must be turning in their graves.
Tr

And lawnseed, so "delighted" to be a Shinner this week, had this to say:
Quote from: lawnseed on June 27, 2010, 01:57:15 AM
Finally this whole thing will go down well cause Irish people are stupid- they take it up the arse. it doesn't matter whether its the queen, the Irish chieftains, the politicians, the clergy, the bankers, the landlords, the Brits, the yanks etc etc we've been doing it since the vikings
nn
And I was correct the queens visit was a huge success!? So much so that given her attitude and involvement sinn fein had a change of heart and decided to meet her. Its worth mentioning that we are a republican party in favour of elected heads of state. Sinn fein have used this occasion to reach out to the brits and try to move things on.
I think the latest opinion polls in the south bear up what I say about the irish voter with ff topping the poll.
Incidently my inlaws recently sought the help of a ff councillor to get a site passed. This week three car load of canvassers arrived to his parents and family more or less demanding their votes. The guy in planning is a ff party member.. Now thats not right
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:44:38 AM
Hold on quotes from nally and myself at the time of the queens visit reflect our thoughts at the time. Personally i'd no idea that the queen would get or would be allowed to get so involved in the reconcilliation between our countries. This whole thing is good for ireland and good for britain. I'd no idea she would bow her head to people who fought against her country or that she'd apoligise for past hurts or say how "things should have been done differently" its not normal for the queen to don a political hat and say this stuff. Im surprised and "delighted".
Of course this could be her last hurrah her "contribution to the peace process"  dont know if the boy with the big lugs could pull this off. But who knows I didnt think a little old lady could do the business either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 13, 2014, 08:11:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
Incidently my inlaws recently sought the help of a ff councillor to get a site passed.  ... Now thats not right

Fixed that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 13, 2014, 08:14:17 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:44:38 AM
Hold on quotes from nally and myself at the time of the queens visit reflect our thoughts at the time. Personally i'd no idea that the queen would get or would be allowed to get so involved in the reconcilliation between our countries. This whole thing is good for ireland and good for britain. I'd no idea she would bow her head to people who fought against her country or that she'd apoligise for past hurts or say how "things should have been done differently" its not normal for the queen to don a political hat and say this stuff. Im surprised and "delighted".
Of course this could be her last hurrah her "contribution to the peace process"  dont know if the boy with the big lugs could pull this off. But who knows I didnt think a little old lady could do the business either.

When I was at school, we used to have an exercise called 'precis' that involved taking a piece of prose and summarising its sense or meaning. I haven't practised it for a while, but here goes re the above:

I was wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 08:21:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 13, 2014, 08:11:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed l
ink=topic=15128.msg1341084#msg1341084 date=1397366537
Incidently my inlaws recently sought the help of a ff councillor to get a site passed.  ... Now thats not right

Fixed that.
I know I know... But the planner was putting them through hell until these tossers rang him. The whole thing stinks. of course he had to produce a "brownie" I mean a political donation.. And now they arrive enmass looking the whole family to vote for them they have some balls
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 08:28:01 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 13, 2014, 08:14:17 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:44:38 AM
Hold on quotes from nally and myself at the time of the queens visit reflect our thoughts at the time. Personally i'd no idea that the queen would get or would be allowed to get so involved in the reconcilliation between our countries. This whole thing is good for ireland and good for britain. I'd no idea she would bow her head to people who fought against her country or that she'd apoligise for past hurts or say how "things should have been done differently" its not normal for the queen to don a political hat and say this stuff. Im surprised and "delighted".
Of course this could be her last hurrah her "contribution to the peace process"  dont know if the boy with the big lugs could pull this off. But who knows I didnt think a little old lady could do the business either.

When I was at school, we used to have an exercise called 'precis' that involved taking a piece of prose and summarising its sense or meaning. I haven't practised it for a while, but here goes re the above:

I was wrong.
I was wrong.. Im big enough.. And im glad I was wrong!

Btw princess anne in countryfile.. Outspoken, thoughtful incite into country living.  Jesus im turning into nicholas whitchel
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 09:41:37 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 12:08:57 PM
And lawnseed, so "delighted" to be a Shinner this week, had this to say:
Quote from: lawnseed on June 27, 2010, 01:57:15 AM
Finally this whole thing will go down well cause Irish people are stupid- they take it up the arse. it doesn't matter whether its the queen, the Irish chieftains, the politicians, the clergy, the bankers, the landlords, the Brits, the yanks etc etc we've been doing it since the vikings
And I was correct the queens visit was a huge success!?
Yes, but you implied that it would only be because of the Irish 'bending over'.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
So much so that given her attitude and involvement sinn fein had a change of heart and decided to meet her.
Yes, but you can't then claim leadership from SF. They didn't take the risk in 2011. It was only when they saw the response from the general public in the south that they realised they had mis-judged the mood. There was little risk in meeting her now. A cynic might even think that it was more about electoral strategy than genuine reconciliation, but whatever the reasons, it's good to see.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
Its worth mentioning that we are a republican party in favour of elected heads of state.
How is that relevant? Every party in the country, bar the few unionist ones, are republican in that sense.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
Sinn fein have used this occasion to reach out to the brits and try to move things on.
Well actually, it was the Brits who issued the invite. But well done on accepting it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 13, 2014, 11:03:26 AM
Does being Republican mean you having to listen to the majority of the people and going against your ideals?

Im not looking for smart answers, just asking.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 11:09:32 AM
A Republic is where the will of the people is sovereign. Any person not interested in the will of the people is not a republican.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 11:36:32 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 11:09:32 AM
A Republic is where the will of the people is sovereign. Any person not interested in the will of the people is not a republican.
The question is, does that mean a party changes its policy to reflect the general mood?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 11:47:39 AM
Given the success of the week, and acceptance at the top table in Windsor, I suppose its
"Victory to the Banquet Men"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 03:32:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 09:41:37 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 12, 2014, 12:08:57 PM
And lawnseed, so "delighted" to be a Shinner this week, had this to say:
Quote from: lawnseed on June 27, 2010, 01:57:15 AM
Finally this whole thing will go down well cause Irish people are stupid- they take it up the arse. it doesn't matter whether its the queen, the Irish chieftains, the politicians, the clergy, the bankers, the landlords, the Brits, the yanks etc etc we've been doing it since the vikings
And I was correct the queens visit was a huge success!?
Yes, but you implied that it would only be because of the Irish 'bending over'.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
So much so that given her attitude and involvement sinn fein had a change of heart and decided to meet her.
Yes, but you can't then claim leadership from SF. They didn't take the risk in 2011. It was only when they saw the response from the general public in the south that they realised they had mis-judged the mood. There was little risk in meeting her now. A cynic might even think that it was more about electoral strategy than genuine reconciliation, but whatever the reasons, it's good to see.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
Its worth mentioning that we are a republican party in favour of elected heads of state.
How is that relevant? Every party in the country, bar the few unionist ones, are republican in that sense.

Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
Sinn fein have used this occasion to reach out to the brits and try to move things on.
Well actually, it was the Brits who issued the invite. But well done on accepting it.
We agree.. Its great really great. You'll admit the queen really surprised all of us. Do you think she gave marty her mobile :)

Marty has wiped the floor with the wullie brigade. I'd love to hear gregory's take on the whole thing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 07:57:28 PM
Great days indeed when the stoops,dissies,free staters, flag protesters ,are all agreeing with this clown Hitchens.

So this is what it is like to live in a defeated country. Your Head of State has to consort with one of the leaders of the most successful terror gang in the world, and pretend she likes it.

This grisly person sits at dinner in Windsor Castle, nodding and smiling at the great and the good.

How witty it was of somebody to seat him next to Shami Chakrabarti of Liberty, so opposed to the death penalty when it is carried out by lawful states.

   +3
Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland Martin McGuinness attends a State Banquet during the Irish president's state visit in Windsor
And hardly anyone says anything, except two dignified figures, standing outside the castle, one robbed of a son and the other of a sister, who will be unable to forget the IRA's views on the 'Right to Life' until they die – just as many others will never be able to forget their views on torture, habeas corpus and free speech.

Bitter, wasn't it, that the day (stolen by McGuinness from the peaceable Irish President Michael D. Higgins) also featured military bandsmen, like those blown to pieces by the IRA in Regent's Park, and Household Cavalry, like those blown to pieces, with their horses, in Hyde Park (a crime for which nobody has been punished, or ever will be now)?

Nobody ever imagined that President Higgins, or the huge majority of good and honourable Irish men and women, ever supported or endorsed the IRA murder of the Queen's cousin, Lord Mountbatten.

Of course they didn't. It was Martin McGuinness who should have been laying a wreath on the Mountbatten tomb. That will  be the day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 08:27:42 PM
As the dust settles on a week that the media and politicians tells us that it was a great week for Ireland and British relations, its hard to overlook the obvious.

When the Mrs Windsor planned to visit Ireland a few years ago, SF decided to boycott her visit, saying:

"Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank,"

This position reflected the majority view of SF voters and supporters. Then, as Martin McGuinness decided to run for the vacant President of Ireland post, they got hammered in the media as Martin was hit with "Will you meet the Queen?"

Having lost in the election, Sinn Fein realised they needed to change tact, and low and behold, an event was staged at the Lyric Theatre in Belfast in which McGuinness shook hands with Mrs Windsor, and in some way sanitized the differences.

The final cog in the wheel was the antics of this week.

Sinn Fein announced that Martin would attend the state dinner and wear periodic costume and as the band played God save the Queen, he would raise his glass to her in a toast proposed by the President of Ireland.

On the day Sinn Fein raised their glass to Mrs Windsor, they issued a statement calling for an Amnesty for anyone involved in pre '98 "crimes".

In effect, they called for no prosecutions for the actions of the British Government during the "Troubles".

Given that the recent case of John Downey, showed how Sinn Fein did a deal to ensure that those close to them were immune to prosecution, we can only assume that murders carried out by the British Establishment will be excused in the same way.

As Irish men and women, including many members of Sinn Fein, celebrated the past weeks pageantry, thousands of families both here and across the world still suffer as the people who celebrate this nonsense oppose inquires into how their loved ones died, and who was responsible.

Sinn Fein sold the participation of McGuinness at Windsor at strep forward for peace. They didn't tell their followers that that as well as that participation, several MPs would take their seats in Westminster and the house of Lords as Michael D Higgins addressed both Houses.

Plus, they would also join an event at Windsor castle where they they would be greeted by Mrs Windsor.

What Sinn Fein did this week in raising their glass to Mrs Windsor is par for the course. They are hell bent on power, votes acceptance and money.

The next stunt we will see is the visit of the Pope to Belfast.

Robinson, like McGuinness with Mrs Windsor, will bow down as he meets the Pope,
in advancement of the "peace process. "

Once upon a time Sinn Fein stood for peace with justice.

Now they stand for votes........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 08:51:40 PM
QuoteOnce upon a time Sinn Fein stood for peace with justice.

Now they stand for votes........

THis is the kind of manure often associated with this topic. People want peace, and justice, so there is no great conflict between the two objectives.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 08:51:40 PM
QuoteOnce upon a time Sinn Fein stood for peace with justice.

Now they stand for votes........

THis is the kind of manure often associated with this topic. People want peace, and justice, so there is no great conflict between the two objectives.

Can you give us any examples of their quest for Justice?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 09:10:16 PM
People want.. Peace and prosperity.. Britain is booming.. They will share they always do. Irish companies will benefit from bettet relations its all good. Sinn fein  must move with the times
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 09:16:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on April 13, 2014, 09:10:16 PM
People want.. Peace and prosperity.. Britain is booming.. They will share they always do. Irish companies will benefit from bettet relations its all good. Sinn fein  must move with the times

And what about the victims seeking justice?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 08:51:40 PM
QuoteOnce upon a time Sinn Fein stood for peace with justice.

Now they stand for votes........

THis is the kind of manure often associated with this topic. People want peace, and justice, so there is no great conflict between the two objectives.

Can you give us any examples of their quest for Justice?

mcGurks,Ballymurphy,Finucane for a start.Dublin and Monaghan,Loughinisland.How many do you want now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 10:00:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 08:51:40 PM
QuoteOnce upon a time Sinn Fein stood for peace with justice.

Now they stand for votes........

THis is the kind of manure often associated with this topic. People want peace, and justice, so there is no great conflict between the two objectives.

Can you give us any examples of their quest for Justice?

mcGurks,Ballymurphy,Finucane for a start.Dublin and Monaghan,Loughinisland.How many do you want now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in.

Well Dixie what is your answer?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 10:22:38 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 10:00:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 08:51:40 PM
QuoteOnce upon a time Sinn Fein stood for peace with justice.

Now they stand for votes........

THis is the kind of manure often associated with this topic. People want peace, and justice, so there is no great conflict between the two objectives.

Can you give us any examples of their quest for Justice?

mcGurks,Ballymurphy,Finucane for a start.Dublin and Monaghan,Loughinisland.How many do you want now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in.

Well Dixie what is your answer?


Troubles amnesty should apply to all, says Sinn Fein MP

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article4056968.ece
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 07:57:28 PM
Great days indeed when the stoops,dissies,free staters, flag protesters ,are all agreeing with this clown Hitchens.
I had to google that to see where you had taken it from - a link would be nice if it's not your own words.

Anyway, I wouldn't agree with a lot of what he says, or the way he says it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 11:08:40 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 10:22:38 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 10:00:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 08:51:40 PM
QuoteOnce upon a time Sinn Fein stood for peace with justice.

Now they stand for votes........

This is the kind of manure often associated with this topic. People want peace, and justice, so there is no great conflict between the two objectives.

Can you give us any examples of their quest for Justice?

mcGurks,Ballymurphy,Finucane for a start.Dublin and Monaghan,Loughinisland.How many do you want now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in.

Well Dixie what is your answer?


Troubles amnesty should apply to all, says Sinn Fein MP

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article4056968.ece

Again Dixie don't believe all you read in the Brit press or your dissie chums tell you.SF will always and continue to fight for the rights of our families and friends.If you can get yourself out and talk to the Finucanes or other families you might see sence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 11:11:51 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 07:57:28 PM
Great days indeed when the stoops,dissies,free staters, flag protesters ,are all agreeing with this clown Hitchens.
I had to google that to see where you had taken it from - a link would be nice if it's not your own words.

Anyway, I wouldn't agree with a lot of what he says, or the way he says it.

Hate to make it easy for you but think he writes for the Mail(shock) so try googling that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 11:11:51 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 07:57:28 PM
Great days indeed when the stoops,dissies,free staters, flag protesters ,are all agreeing with this clown Hitchens.
I had to google that to see where you had taken it from - a link would be nice if it's not your own words.

Anyway, I wouldn't agree with a lot of what he says, or the way he says it.

Hate to make it easy for you but think he writes for the Mail(shock) so try googling that.
I did find it - see above. He reaches some bizarre conclusions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 11:24:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 11:11:51 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 07:57:28 PM
Great days indeed when the stoops,dissies,free staters, flag protesters ,are all agreeing with this clown Hitchens.
I had to google that to see where you had taken it from - a link would be nice if it's not your own words.

Anyway, I wouldn't agree with a lot of what he says, or the way he says it.

Hate to make it easy for you but think he writes for the Mail(shock) so try googling that.
I did find it - see above. He reaches some bizarre conclusions.

:o :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on April 14, 2014, 12:18:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 11:11:51 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 13, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 07:57:28 PM
Great days indeed when the stoops,dissies,free staters, flag protesters ,are all agreeing with this clown Hitchens.
I had to google that to see where you had taken it from - a link would be nice if it's not your own words.

Anyway, I wouldn't agree with a lot of what he says, or the way he says it.

Hate to make it easy for you but think he writes for the Mail(shock) so try googling that.
I did find it - see above. He reaches some bizarre conclusions.

I've always felt that Hitchens was an arrogant, insufferable p***k any time he was on Question Time and decided to have a read at that and tbh I take a bit of pleasure in his feeling of being let down by the very monarchs he looks up to, good enough for ye, you self entitled knob end.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 15, 2014, 04:12:08 PM
A little bit of realism is a perequisite for any party leader. Lets look at the situation. Ireland and the UK are major trading partners with each other. They share a common language, there are large numbers of their people living in the others Island. They have common interests in Europe and are now mature enough to get on with each other rather than be at each others throats. What was Marty to do? Even Robbo acknowledged that London was at best neutral on the union. If SF are to reunite this Island these are the types of gestures required. What is wrong with a party acting as their voters would wish? Remember reuniting the island doesn't just mean getting the PUL community on board, it will require support from the ROI. Why would the ROI take on the north as it currently stands? Unionists would have to agree with any reunification strategy. It probably would look much different to what we have now, just Dublin being the Capital not London. More than likely parity on symbols and flags as well. Right move Marty.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 15, 2014, 04:16:31 PM
I've often wondered how the historians will write the modern history of Ireland ?.

From the madness of the 70s until toasting the Queen at the long table ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on April 15, 2014, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 15, 2014, 04:16:31 PM
I've often wondered how the historians will write the modern history of Ireland ?.

From the madness of the 70s until toasting the Queen at the long table ?.

When the people of Dublin bedecked their city in union jacks for the queen of englands visit in 1901 (i think)  what did Sinn Fein supporters think
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 15, 2014, 05:14:50 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 15, 2014, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 15, 2014, 04:16:31 PM
I've often wondered how the historians will write the modern history of Ireland ?.

From the madness of the 70s until toasting the Queen at the long table ?.

When the people of Dublin bedecked their city in union jacks for the queen of englands visit in 1901 (i think)  what did Sinn Fein supporters think

Sinn Féin was founded in 1905 so I am not sure it had many supporters in 1901......or even in 1900 when Victoria did visit.

Also it's first meeting adopted the Griffith policy of dual monarchy with Ireland as a separate state but sharing a monarch with Britain so maybe they would have welcomed the Queen!

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on April 19, 2014, 08:03:32 AM
Senior shinner takes party to tribunal alleging discrimination.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/former-hunger-striker-and-senior-sinn-f%C3%A9in-adviser-sues-party-1.1754643

Another senior member, Jackie McMullan, seems to have walked away / been turfed out, depending on your viewpoint.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/blogs/liam-clarke/sinn-fein-mystery-as-exira-leaders-step-down-30005932.html

Respected figures in the party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 19, 2014, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on April 19, 2014, 08:03:32 AM
Senior shinner takes party to tribunal alleging discrimination.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/former-hunger-striker-and-senior-sinn-f%C3%A9in-adviser-sues-party-1.1754643

Another senior member, Jackie McMullan, seems to have walked away / been turfed out, depending on your viewpoint.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/blogs/liam-clarke/sinn-fein-mystery-as-exira-leaders-step-down-30005932.html

Respected figures in the party.

Plenty more where they came from to take their place. Even younger models too with no association to the bloody past. So these lads aren't the loss some would imagine. They'll be missed and thanked for their work but their will be no gold plated watch.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on April 19, 2014, 09:30:43 AM
Quote from: orangeman on April 19, 2014, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on April 19, 2014, 08:03:32 AM
Senior shinner takes party to tribunal alleging discrimination.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/former-hunger-striker-and-senior-sinn-f%C3%A9in-adviser-sues-party-1.1754643

Another senior member, Jackie McMullan, seems to have walked away / been turfed out, depending on your viewpoint.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/blogs/liam-clarke/sinn-fein-mystery-as-exira-leaders-step-down-30005932.html

Respected figures in the party.

Plenty more where they came from to take their place. Even younger models too with no association to the bloody past. So these lads aren't the loss some would imagine. They'll be missed and thanked for their work but their will be no gold plated watch.

Liam Clarke  ;D ;D ;D the workers party man would know plenty about the Kremlin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 20, 2014, 12:01:04 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on April 19, 2014, 08:03:32 AM
Senior shinner takes party to tribunal alleging discrimination.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/former-hunger-striker-and-senior-sinn-f%C3%A9in-adviser-sues-party-1.1754643

Another senior member, Jackie McMullan, seems to have walked away / been turfed out, depending on your viewpoint.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/blogs/liam-clarke/sinn-fein-mystery-as-exira-leaders-step-down-30005932.html

Respected figures in the party.


As Liam Clarke and yourself are so obviously clued-in to the internal workings of SF I'm surprised you didn't know Jackie McMullan hasn't been the education SPAD over a year at least, maybe more. Jackie as far as I know is working for Coiste and both he and Leo are still currently members of SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on April 20, 2014, 07:45:18 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 20, 2014, 12:01:04 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on April 19, 2014, 08:03:32 AM
Senior shinner takes party to tribunal alleging discrimination.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/former-hunger-striker-and-senior-sinn-f%C3%A9in-adviser-sues-party-1.1754643

Another senior member, Jackie McMullan, seems to have walked away / been turfed out, depending on your viewpoint.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/blogs/liam-clarke/sinn-fein-mystery-as-exira-leaders-step-down-30005932.html

Respected figures in the party.


As Liam Clarke and yourself are so obviously clued-in to the internal workings of SF I'm surprised you didn't know Jackie McMullan hasn't been the education SPAD over a year at least, maybe more. Jackie as far as I know is working for Coiste and both he and Leo are still currently members of SF.
Leo may still be a member of SF, but he's obviously a deeply unhappy one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on April 22, 2014, 06:27:02 PM
Just watching the SF Party Election Broadcast. Surprised Mary Lou didn't get her roots done before it was filmed
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 22, 2014, 06:49:36 PM
Getting your roots done is a sign of capitalism.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 23, 2014, 06:25:06 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27117190

Same old chestnut.

An ex-IRA man has made new allegations about Gerry Adams, in which he raises questions about the Sinn Féin leader's claim to have never been in the IRA.

Peter Rogers has alleged that Mr Adams and his Sinn Féin colleague Martin McGuinness ordered him to transport explosives to Great Britain in 1980.

Both Sinn Féin men declined interviews but their party issued a statement saying the allegations were untrue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 23, 2014, 06:43:09 PM

QuoteJust watching the SF Party Election Broadcast. Surprised Mary Lou didn't get her roots done before it was filmed

SF don't want to blacken the grass roots.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 27, 2014, 03:12:47 PM
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/knife-attack-victim-named-as-son-of-sinn-fein-td-628890.html (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/knife-attack-victim-named-as-son-of-sinn-fein-td-628890.html)

Hope the lad is alright.

They are saying he is in a 'serious but stable' condition.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 28, 2014, 07:58:34 PM
People of West Tyrone, rest easy in the knowledge that you have robust political representation.

Sam McBride ‏@SJAMcBride  5h
Probing questions, Stormont-style...Sinn Fein's Michaela Boyle asks First Minister: "Does he believe the Giro d'Italia will be a success?"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on April 28, 2014, 08:33:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 28, 2014, 07:58:34 PM
People of West Tyrone, rest easy in the knowledge that you have robust political representation.

Sam McBride ‏@SJAMcBride  5h
Probing questions, Stormont-style...Sinn Fein's Michaela Boyle asks First Minister: "Does he believe the Giro d'Italia will be a success?"

First Minister: "As the honourable lady opposite will, no doubt, already be aware, the Giro has long been a tremendous success in many Republican / Roman Catholics areas of Ulster. Particularly when it actually arrives, via the Her Majesty's Royal Mail, from the Social Security Agency".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2014, 08:46:53 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 28, 2014, 07:58:34 PM
People of West Tyrone, rest easy in the knowledge that you have robust political representation.

Sam McBride ‏@SJAMcBride  5h
Probing questions, Stormont-style...Sinn Fein's Michaela Boyle asks First Minister: "Does he believe the Giro d'Italia will be a success?"

I bet he will love the sight of the pink jersey.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on April 28, 2014, 09:59:33 PM
Assuming Anderson gets in on the first count what is the best way to maximise your vote in the European election?
Would putting SDLP / Alluance 2nd be a wasted vote or would they survive the counts long enough to make a difference?
Would putting Allister 2nd be a better way to hit the DUP as he would have a fighting chance against Dodds?

On a side note does anyone else think the Anna Lo posters are a bit racist?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 28, 2014, 10:06:01 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 28, 2014, 09:59:33 PM
Assuming Anderson gets in on the first count what is the best way to maximise your vote in the European election?
Would putting SDLP / Alluance 2nd be a wasted vote or would they survive the counts long enough to make a difference?
Would putting Allister 2nd be a better way to hit the DUP as he would have a fighting chance against Dodds?

On a side note does anyone else think the Anna Lo posters are a bit racist?

I wouldn't wish to vote Allister, even if it did piss off the DUP. If you believe Anderson will get in handy then do not put her first, but put SDLP/Alliance first and then Anderson.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 28, 2014, 10:09:15 PM
Wiser advice. You'd need a gun to the head before voting for that boyo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Clinker on April 29, 2014, 12:33:21 AM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on April 28, 2014, 08:33:15 PM

First Minister: "As the honourable lady opposite will, no doubt, already be aware, the Giro has long been a tremendous success in many Republican / Roman Catholics areas of Ulster. Particularly when it actually arrives, via the Her Majesty's Royal Mail, from the Social Security Agency".


Ah the good oul days.......


Newspaper interview with Terence O'Neill - elected Prime Minister of the world these 'Roman Catholics' lived in  - mates with Seán Lemass of Fianna Fáil


'It is frightfully hard to explain to Protestants that if you give Roman Catholics a good job and a good house. they will live like Protestants because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Roman Catholic is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel, he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Roman Catholics with due consider and kindness, they will live like Protestants in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church . . .'

Source: Belfast Telegraph, 10th May 1969


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 29, 2014, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: Clinker on April 29, 2014, 12:33:21 AM
'It is frightfully hard to explain to Protestants that if you give Roman Catholics a good job and a good house. they will live like Protestants because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Roman Catholic is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel, he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Roman Catholics with due consider and kindness, they will live like Protestants in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church . . .'

Source: Belfast Telegraph, 10th May 1969

The more extreme unionists believed that if they were sufficiently staunch that they would win out. O'Neill believed that if the Taigs had jobs they wouldn't be bothered with all this nationalism. It now seems that they were both right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on April 29, 2014, 09:34:06 AM
Quote from: Clinker on April 29, 2014, 12:33:21 AM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on April 28, 2014, 08:33:15 PM

First Minister: "As the honourable lady opposite will, no doubt, already be aware, the Giro has long been a tremendous success in many Republican / Roman Catholics areas of Ulster. Particularly when it actually arrives, via the Her Majesty's Royal Mail, from the Social Security Agency".


Ah the good oul days.......


Newspaper interview with Terence O'Neill - elected Prime Minister of the world these 'Roman Catholics' lived in  - mates with Seán Lemass of Fianna Fáil


'It is frightfully hard to explain to Protestants that if you give Roman Catholics a good job and a good house. they will live like Protestants because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Roman Catholic is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel, he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Roman Catholics with due consider and kindness, they will live like Protestants in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church . . .'

Source: Belfast Telegraph, 10th May 1969

And O'Neill was described as a "moderate" Unionist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on April 30, 2014, 09:06:37 PM
Gerry's been arrested?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on April 30, 2014, 09:07:48 PM
Gerry Adams?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on April 30, 2014, 09:09:39 PM
According to BBC breaking news - presented himself to police station in connection with Jean McConville case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on April 30, 2014, 09:14:32 PM
Quote from: Rois on April 30, 2014, 09:09:39 PM
According to BBC breaking news - presented himself to police station in connection with Jean McConville case.

By prior arrangement
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on April 30, 2014, 09:18:40 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 30, 2014, 09:14:32 PM


By prior arrangement
Why did he have to be arrested though, if he was coming voluntarily?
Genuinely interested.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bingo on April 30, 2014, 09:59:13 PM
PSNI tweeted at 8.30 that 65 year old man arrested in connection with jean McConville investigation.

Is that standard for an arranged appointment
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Banter Panther on April 30, 2014, 10:02:36 PM
WOW!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 30, 2014, 10:10:42 PM
He presented himself to police on Wednesday evening and was arrested.

Speaking before his arrest, Mr Adams said he was "innocent of any part" in the murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bensars on April 30, 2014, 10:19:03 PM
This is a non story. I suspect he would have to be arrested to be questioned on anything, and recorded etc.
this will clear up any doubts raised prior to elections, if raised as an objection to SF.

Adams too long in tooth and questioned already many times. All evidence so far , panorama etc all based on hearsay by dead people. There would need to be specific evidence.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on April 30, 2014, 10:19:18 PM
"I went to the PSNI and you know what they released me without charge, now can we get on with the election"

Unless there is a big smoking gun or someone has named him
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bingo on April 30, 2014, 10:20:42 PM
Someone in the PSNI twitter making a bigger deal out of this that it is?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on April 30, 2014, 10:23:39 PM
Quote from: Bingo on April 30, 2014, 10:20:42 PM
Someone in the PSNI twitter making a bigger deal out of this that it is?

That's what happens when you let too many Taigs in!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Apparently so on April 30, 2014, 10:32:55 PM
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!

So
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 10:34:04 PM
Teflon Don.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bingo on April 30, 2014, 10:35:12 PM
Should we invade to free our jailed TD?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on April 30, 2014, 10:36:54 PM
Just pick a spot on the wall Gerry, and say nothing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 30, 2014, 10:45:21 PM
Quote from: Bingo on April 30, 2014, 09:59:13 PM
PSNI tweeted at 8.30 that 65 year old man arrested in connection with jean McConville investigation.

Is that standard for an arranged appointment

Some one tweeting or singing like a bird ?

Or is that the same thing ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on April 30, 2014, 11:11:27 PM
Gerry Kelly wasn't expecting the arrest - he said for him, he was questioned under caution but not arrested. He reckons it's cause Gerry's so popular...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on April 30, 2014, 11:20:29 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 30, 2014, 11:19:16 PM
The biggest lot of pantomime bollix.

The peelers couldn't give a flying shite about Jean McConville and this is simply lip service. Not one thing will come from it.




Correct. Pure farce. Except that for the Mc Convilles it isn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:04:36 AM
I actually think this will encourage even more people to come out and vote Sinn Fein in the upcoming elections.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 09:37:50 AM
I don't know about that. Not in the South anyway. Sinn Fein have been trying their best to move on from the murky past, with new, young, attractive candidates, and talking about things like social justice, propping up banks, stealth taxes etc. All stuff that's likely to resonate with voters in the south, as long as they aren't confronted with reminders that in the past Sinn Fein were associated with serious violence, North and South.

This arrest/interview couldn't come at a worse time i'd have thought, because Sinn Fein were poised to eat Labour's lunch for them in these local elections. In fact if I were a politically minded Machiavellian person, I might even look to see if a certain party leader, maybe under serious pressure at home and desperate not to lose badly to Sinn Fein this month, had called in an auld favour from our new best mates across the Irish Sea. In the interests of democracy of course.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 01, 2014, 09:43:20 AM
As an aisde, if SF are right or truly believe there is a political element to this arrest, then does that have implications for their role in the Policing Boards in the North??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 09:56:14 AM
And right on cue the indo pitch in to remind people that this should impact on their voting coming up.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sf-election-hopes-hit-as-adams-arrested-over-motherof10s-murder-30234525.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sf-election-hopes-hit-as-adams-arrested-over-motherof10s-murder-30234525.html)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: AQMP on May 01, 2014, 09:43:20 AM
As an aisde, if SF are right or truly believe there is a political element to this arrest...

Of course it's political.

http://www.judecollins.com/2014/05/five-pieces-food-thought-last-night/ (http://www.judecollins.com/2014/05/five-pieces-food-thought-last-night/)

"1. As they munch their breakfast toast this morning, Ed Moloney and Anthony McIntyre must be feeling good. Having selected people who they knew detested Gerry Adams for what was considered selling out, they put on tape their accusations that Gerry Adams was responsible for the death of Jean McConville. Now, thanks to those tapes, Gerry Adams (at the time of writing) is in an Antrim prison cell.

2. Politicians from the DUP, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour must be smiling so hard this morning, they'll have difficulty munching their All-Bran. The DUP have vowed to 'Smash Sinn Féin!' for decades (remember Ian and his big hammer?); now the Sinn Féin leader is in prison over a crime committed 42 years ago. Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour will also be wondering if God isn't on their side after all. Sinn Féin was running neck-and-neck with them in the opinion polls (no, of course  not Labour, Virginia), so this news from the north must seem like manna from heaven.

3. Why was Gerry Adams arrested last night and not some six weeks ago, when he told the PSNI he was available for questioning? Jimmy Jones back in 1960 had the answer in his hit song"'Good Timing" – remember? Ticka-ticka-ticka timing. Just as the Anglo-Irish Agreement was aimed to stop Sinn Féin's progress and as Big Ian's hammer was designed to do the same thing, the timing of this very public arrest was aimed to stem the Sinn Féin surge at the polling booths in three weeks' time.

4. Dissident republicans this morning are putting down their cup of tea, the better to turn cartwheels around their kitchen. They always said that the Sinn Féin strategy merely propped up British rule here. And now the man who fashioned that strategy, who led republicanism from a seemingly intractable circle of violence to peaceful politics, now sits  in a cell, put there by those who maintain the peace. After they've finished cart-wheeling, the dissidents  may not open their windows and yell into the street "We always told you so!" But they'll be sorely tempted.

5. However, a note of caution: there is something called the law of unintended consequence.  For example, when David Cameron,  Ed Milliband or Nick Clegg spoke up, linking themselves with the Better Together campaign and urging Scottish voters to stay with the Union or suffer unknown economic hardship, the result was not that Scottish voters shied away from the Yes camp. Instead, such was their detestation of bullying London politicians, the Yes campaign has grown impressively ever since.  Likewise with the arrest of Gerry Adams. Leaving aside the impossibility of his getting a fair trial if the case ever came to court, his arrest is more likely to galvanise than depress Sinn Féin campaigners north and south. To quote the DUP's cheerful Arlene Foster: "Be careful what you wish for – you may get it". Last night's arrest of Gerry Adams may well  come back and bite Sinn Féin's opponents in the electoral bum."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 10:27:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 09:37:50 AM
I don't know about that. Not in the South anyway. Sinn Fein have been trying their best to move on from the murky past, with new, young, attractive candidates, and talking about things like social justice, propping up banks, stealth taxes etc. All stuff that's likely to resonate with voters in the south, as long as they aren't confronted with reminders that in the past Sinn Fein were associated with serious violence, North and South.

This arrest/interview couldn't come at a worse time i'd have thought, because Sinn Fein were poised to eat Labour's lunch for them in these local elections. In fact if I were a politically minded Machiavellian person, I might even look to see if a certain party leader, maybe under serious pressure at home and desperate not to lose badly to Sinn Fein this month, had called in an auld favour from our new best mates across the Irish Sea. In the interests of democracy of course.

In the last 15 years big announcements that had any bearing on the Peace Process always felt tightly choreographed. While it meant the public were always way behind the real action, it also allowed scope to deal with serious issues as they arose.

This arrest has the same sort of feel to it imho. Adams announced recently that he was available and he went in voluntarily. This takes some of the heat out of the situation. I would suspect the path is already mapped out, if recent history is anything to go by.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 10:31:06 AM
Yeah but the timing of it smacks of some sort of pressure. There's no good I can see for Sinn Fein out of this publicity, unless Adams is going to be cleared within days of any involvement. Hard to see that happening. I'd imagine it will drag on for several weeks or months before any conclusion is drawn.

It has all the hallmarks of a stroke pulled to me. If Adams hadn't voluntarily presented himself, I'd not have been surprised to see him in handcuffs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 10:34:08 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 10:31:06 AM
Yeah but the timing of it smacks of some sort of pressure. There's no good I can see for Sinn Fein out of this publicity, unless Adams is going to be cleared within days of any involvement. Hard to see that happening. I'd imagine it will drag on for several weeks or months before any conclusion is drawn.

It has all the hallmarks of a stroke pulled to me. If Adams hadn't voluntarily presented himself, I'd not have been surprised to see him in handcuffs.

It would be a dangerous stroke, right up there with the self-serving disastrous wranglings of Viktor Yanukovych, Viktor Yushchenko & Yulia Tymoshenko in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 01, 2014, 10:37:29 AM
Almost everything since the Good Friday agreement ( some might argue even before that date )  in Northern Ireland has had some form of choreography surrounding it.

This is no different IMO.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 10:41:04 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 10:34:08 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 10:31:06 AM
Yeah but the timing of it smacks of some sort of pressure. There's no good I can see for Sinn Fein out of this publicity, unless Adams is going to be cleared within days of any involvement. Hard to see that happening. I'd imagine it will drag on for several weeks or months before any conclusion is drawn.

It has all the hallmarks of a stroke pulled to me. If Adams hadn't voluntarily presented himself, I'd not have been surprised to see him in handcuffs.

It would be a dangerous stroke, right up there with the self-serving disastrous wranglings of Viktor Yanukovych, Viktor Yushchenko & Yulia Tymoshenko in Ukraine.

I don't know how it can be dangerous from a Labour/FG/FF perspective. It may be dangerous for the peace in Northern Ireland, but when Adams is exonerated, as I'm sure he will be, that will calm down too. As far as the other parties in the south are concerned, this has to be manna from heaven. Just think of it from a Labour perspective. The leader of the party that is likely to make serious gains at my expense, is being questioned for Murder a few weeks before the election. I can't believe that's a coincidence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 10:42:44 AM
SF knew this was coming. Gerry wanted this done back a couple of months ago to get it out of the way for the elections. Higher powers had other idea's. If Gerry had not went to them you can dam sure a large number of RUC would have landed for him and he would have been handcuffed all in front of a large media presence. This is a damage limitation process by SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 10:44:58 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 10:42:44 AM
SF knew this was coming. Gerry wanted this done back a couple of months ago to get it out of the way for the elections. Higher powers had other idea's. If Gerry had not went to them you can dam sure a large number of RUC would have landed for him and he would have been handcuffed all in front of a large media presence. This is a damage limitation process by SF.

I agree. And given the timing, you have to wonder who stands to gain most out of embarrassment/controversy around Sinn Fein and its leader? The DUP are in power with SF, and anyway Gerry is not active (no pun intended) in 6 county politics as much any more. Marty has that sewn up. I definitely think this is coming from the south.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on May 01, 2014, 10:48:35 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 10:42:44 AM
SF knew this was coming. Gerry wanted this done back a couple of months ago to get it out of the way for the elections. Higher powers had other idea's. If Gerry had not went to them you can dam sure a large number of RUC would have landed for him and he would have been handcuffed all in front of a large media presence. This is a damage limitation process by SF.

With the spate of other recent arrests and the dubious Boston tapes, is there any new evidence now available or is this all bluster?

If Gerry isn't charged then he can go to the electorate in the south, with all these accusations behind him, saying he's helped the PSNI with their inquiries and no charges to answer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 01, 2014, 10:53:42 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 01, 2014, 10:48:35 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 10:42:44 AM
SF knew this was coming. Gerry wanted this done back a couple of months ago to get it out of the way for the elections. Higher powers had other idea's. If Gerry had not went to them you can dam sure a large number of RUC would have landed for him and he would have been handcuffed all in front of a large media presence. This is a damage limitation process by SF.

With the spate of other recent arrests and the dubious Boston tapes, is there any new evidence now available or is this all bluster?

If Gerry isn't charged then he can go to the electorate in the south, with all these accusations behind him, saying he's helped the PSNI with their inquiries and no charges to answer.

Or he'll be released on bail pending further enquiries or a report to DPP which wouldn't be a good idea in the short term.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on May 01, 2014, 11:01:29 AM
SF to their credit are the only Party who has made genuine attempts to put something in place to deal with legacy issues such as their. If you don't believe me ask Richard Haass. For a sense of how farcical this is, think of Seán Lemass getting is collar felt while Taoiseach for being part of Collins' assassination squad or Frank Atkin being lifted at the UN in t he 60s for the actions of the 4th Northern Division in South Armagh in 1921.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 01, 2014, 11:14:19 AM
Decent analysis of the situation and the context on the American website Vox (http://www.vox.com/2014/4/30/5669484/britains-murder-case-against-one-of-irelands-most-important). Decent, that is, up to the last paragraph:

QuoteThe Good Friday Agreement allows Adams to be both a resident of Northern Ireland and in Irish parliament. So the Irish government is likely to be furious, setting the stage for a pretty significant political conflict between Ireland and the UK.

;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2014, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 10:42:44 AM
SF knew this was coming. Gerry wanted this done back a couple of months ago to get it out of the way for the elections. Higher powers had other idea's. If Gerry had not went to them you can dam sure a large number of RUC would have landed for him and he would have been handcuffed all in front of a large media presence. This is a damage limitation process by SF.

Sure all he had to do was to stay in his constituency or go campaigning for the Euro elections in Munster, until after the election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.

Regarding the timing, does anyone really care about local and MEP elections? If I were Labour, in particular, I would have tried to have this happen in the run up to a General Election where the real power lies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 11:42:41 AM
It's all momentum muppet. If it hadn't happened now, there's a good chance it would have been resolved well before the next general election. Or maybe Gerry would step down and Mary Lou McDonald or Pearse Doherty would be the leader, part of the brave new vanguard. Maybe I'm very cynical, but this looks to me for all the world like 'smokes and daggers' as Bertie would have said.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 11:42:41 AM
It's all momentum muppet. If it hadn't happened now, there's a good chance it would have been resolved well before the next general election. Or maybe Gerry would step down and Mary Lou McDonald or Pearse Doherty would be the leader, part of the brave new vanguard. Maybe I'm very cynical, but this looks to me for all the world like 'smokes and daggers' as Bertie would have said.

The timing looks convenient for sure.

But other than the timing, this has been coming for a long time. Once the content of those Boston tapes became known it was firmly on the agenda. Any self respecting police force would have to act on allegations regarding a murder.  Adams could easily have done a Sean Quinn's nephew on it and staying in Louth but he went in himself to talk to the police.

Who decided the timing, Adams or the police?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 11:52:08 AM
That's exactly the point I think. It has been coming a long time, so why now? Why not after the local elections? And given that Adams and Mary Lou have both criticised the timing, I think it's fair to say it probably wasn't Gerry's idea. I have no doubt him being led away in cuffs would have been the result if he hadn't come in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.
An "inconvenience"? There could be many other victims that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.
An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 01, 2014, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 11:52:08 AM
That's exactly the point I think. It has been coming a long time, so why now? Why not after the local elections? And given that Adams and Mary Lou have both criticised the timing, I think it's fair to say it probably wasn't Gerry's idea. I have no doubt him being led away in cuffs would have been the result if he hadn't come in.

I think you're right here AZ.  It appear the Shinners have been expecting this for a while.  I'd say it was made known to GA that he would be scooped the next time he came into the North or he could come in voluntarily.  He may not have been expecting to be arrested, maybe questioned under caution. 

As for how this unwinds...the evidence of Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price would not be admissible in court, so there is either something in the Boston Tapes that somehow leads directly to Adams, or there is some living person who has incriminated themselves in the Tapes and is willing to give evidence against Adams.  Other than that I'm struggling to come up with a scenario in which Adams would even be charged.

But this is the North, it would be a fool who would predict the future with any degree of certainty!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.
An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.
An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

There you go with the mantra again. Tell me who believes 'there were only two victims in the conflict'?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:25:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.
An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

There you go with the mantra again. Tell me who believes 'there were only two victims in the conflict'?

"Seem to believe". Not to be taken literally. To be taken as a reference to those people who know only two victims names and who don't care anough to learn about any others. Do you have anything to contribute other than disingenuous arguments or putting words in my mouth?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:25:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.
An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

There you go with the mantra again. Tell me who believes 'there were only two victims in the conflict'?

"Seem to believe". Not to be taken literally. To be taken as a reference to those people who know only two victims names and who don't care anough to learn about any others. Do you have anything to contribute other than disingenuous arguments or putting words in my mouth?

Your arguments are 'hierarchy of victims' and 'seem to believe that there were only two victims in the conflict' and you are complaining about disingenuous arguments.  ;D

Like it or not, the murder of a mother of 9 small children will be big news. Also the murder of a police man is a will also be big news and it used to be a Capital Offence in the South.

What you are trying to do is rubbish these murders and hoping that they somehow go away.

The real issue here is whether Adams was involved or not. I don't see you having much to say on that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 01, 2014, 12:38:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.
An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

You are right that there is a focus on these cases in the republic.  However, I would say that in McCabe case it's stood out for many non-political reasons.

1) The knots that the republican movement tied itself up in with denials, it was/wasn't authorised/it was authorised locally.  To a lot of people this suggested that even the Shinners realised this was different.

2) People couldn't see the motivation for what happened.  It was a fundraising operation why shoot the Gardaí without any engagemetn?  Where they shot for being Gardaí, if so were the IRA not targeting people for being part of the state machinery (ala Northern Ireland Police, soldiers, politicians, building contracters)

3) People in the south are not used to seeing their politicians (Ferris) visiting/collecting cop killers in jail.

Added to the normal outrage of a Garda being shot, those 3 were more than enough to make McCabe a huge issue without any political encouragement.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 01, 2014, 12:41:59 PM
I wonder did Adams use his one phone call to phone Downing St to say "Listen , Gerry Adams here, Gerry Adams has been arrested by the PSNI, can you call Matt Baggot and get Gerry Adams released" ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 01, 2014, 12:46:47 PM
The "legalities" of Adams' arrest:

Gerry Adams was arrested at 20:00 BST on Wednesday under the Terrorism Act 2000

Under the terms of that act, a suspect can be held for a maximum of 28 days before being charged

After the first 24 hours has passed, the police can extend questioning for a further 24 hours if a superintendent says there are sufficient grounds to do so.

However, if a suspect has been held for 48 hours the police then have to go to court to seek an extension of the length of time he or she can continue to be held.

So in this case he could be held until 20:00 BST on Friday before a judge would have to rule on whether he could be held for a further period.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 12:49:03 PM
I don't agree with the hierarchy of victims argument that Nally Stand is putting forth, but I don't think there's any doubt that the establishment down here are nervous of Sinn Fein, and would not be slow to use the media to bring cases to the forefront which cause discomfort for Sinn Fein.

Pat Finnucane is probably the only other name which has that level of 'recognition' attached to it, and is not blamed on the IRA,  and other than that it is mostly the bigger atrocities like Bloody Sunday, Greysteel, Omagh and the like.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:25:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 10:55:45 AM
As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.
An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

There you go with the mantra again. Tell me who believes 'there were only two victims in the conflict'?

"Seem to believe". Not to be taken literally. To be taken as a reference to those people who know only two victims names and who don't care anough to learn about any others. Do you have anything to contribute other than disingenuous arguments or putting words in my mouth?

Your arguments are 'hierarchy of victims' and 'seem to believe that there were only two victims in the conflict' and you are complaining about disingenuous arguments.  ;D

Like it or not, the murder of a mother of 9 small children will be big news. Also the murder of a police man is a will also be big news and it used to be a Capital Offence in the South.

What you are trying to do is rubbish these murders and hoping that they somehow go away.

The real issue here is whether Adams was involved or not. I don't see you having much to say on that.

So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:58:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:54:22 PM
So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

You are doing the opposite. You are relegating their murders as issues by claiming they are part of some other agenda, because they are inconvenient to SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:07:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:58:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:54:22 PM
So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

You are doing the opposite. You are relegating their murders as issues by claiming they are part of some other agenda, because they are inconvenient to SF.

They are being elevated above others by those with political motives. If you believe that to be untrue then you live on cloud cukoo land.

P.s. The name of the mother of eight, murdered by the the state in Ballymurphy, was Joan Connolly. My desire is not for Jean McConville & Jerry McCabes names to be relegated to Joan's position in hierarchy. Bur for names like Joan's to be given equal attention and to be equally well known.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:07:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:58:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:54:22 PM
So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

You are doing the opposite. You are relegating their murders as issues by claiming they are part of some other agenda, because they are inconvenient to SF.

They are being elevated above others by those with political motives. If you believe that to be untrue then you live on cloud cukoo land.

P.s. The name of the mother of eight, murdered by the the state in Ballymurphy, was Joan Connolly. My desire is not for Jean McConville & Jerry McCabes names to be relegated to Joan's position in hierarchy. Bur for names like Joan's to be given equal attention and to be equally well known.

So you do this by rubbishing any investigation into, or coverage of, McConville's murder as being politically motivated, every time the issue arises.

Why not simply put up a thread on the Ballymurphy murders and educate the rest of us?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 01, 2014, 01:20:52 PM
Nally (& glens abu if he/she's about)...

if this is a politically motivated arrest and if, as Mary Lou suggested, there are "sinister unionist influenced" elements within the PSNI, can SF credibly continue to call for Republican and Nationalists to support a police force that would contain such elements and would let itself be politically influenced in this way??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:07:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 12:58:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 12:54:22 PM
So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

You are doing the opposite. You are relegating their murders as issues by claiming they are part of some other agenda, because they are inconvenient to SF.

They are being elevated above others by those with political motives. If you believe that to be untrue then you live on cloud cukoo land.

P.s. The name of the mother of eight, murdered by the the state in Ballymurphy, was Joan Connolly. My desire is not for Jean McConville & Jerry McCabes names to be relegated to Joan's position in hierarchy. Bur for names like Joan's to be given equal attention and to be equally well known.

So you do this by rubbishing any investigation into, or coverage of, McConville's murder as being politically motivated, every time the issue arises.

Why not simply put up a thread on the Ballymurphy murders and educate the rest of us?

I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:26:27 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 01, 2014, 01:20:52 PM
Nally (& glens abu if he/she's about)...

if this is a politically motivated arrest and if as Mary Lou suggested there are "sinister unionist influenced" elements within the PSNI, can SF credibly continue to call for Republican and Nationalists to support a police force that would contain such elements and let itself be politically influenced in this way??

That's each to their own AQMP. I've no doubt they will continue to support it and claim to be challenging them via the policing board etc. They can call for continued support of the police all they want but it will be up to people to decide for themselves. I hold no malice towards anyone joining them, but it would be a cold day in hell before I personally would join a six county police force or be an enthusiastic supporter of one, particularly one which is so politically influenced.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on May 01, 2014, 01:30:46 PM
I see one of the McConville 'children' (Michael) has welcomed the arrest.

"Me and the rest of my brothers and sisters are just glad to see the PSNI doing their job. We didn't think it would ever take place [Mr Adams's arrest], but we are quite glad that it is taking place". he told the BBC.

I wonder why he said this if Gerry Adams is totally innocent?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 01, 2014, 01:32:57 PM
Because they believe he is not totally innocent?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on May 01, 2014, 01:30:46 PM
I see one of the McConville 'children' (Michael) has welcomed the arrest.

"Me and the rest of my brothers and sisters are just glad to see the PSNI doing their job. We didn't think it would ever take place [Mr Adams's arrest], but we are quite glad that it is taking place". he told the BBC.

I wonder why he said this if Gerry Adams is totally innocent?

Is that a serious question? Are you implying that he must be guilty because his arrest has been welcomed by the victims son?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
So referencing Jean McConville during a debate on welfare reform isn't "dragging up" her name?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
So referencing Jean McConville during a debate on welfare reform isn't "dragging up" her name?

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
So referencing Jean McConville during a debate on welfare reform isn't "dragging up" her name?

"Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties".

Whether or not you intended it when you wrote it, that statement reads as if it is dripping with antipathy towards the victim.




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 02:04:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
So referencing Jean McConville during a debate on welfare reform isn't "dragging up" her name?

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
So referencing Jean McConville during a debate on welfare reform isn't "dragging up" her name?

"Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties".

Whether or not you intended it when you wrote it, that statement reads as if it is dripping with antipathy towards the victim.

Disingenuous horseshit once again Muppet. I have described Jean McConville's murder elsewhere on this board as "obscene" and have put on record that I am "disgusted" at the disappearing of bodies. As my repeated posts today have made abundantly clear, and as you continue to dance around, my problem is not with the victim, but with the elevation of two victims over all others. As well you know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rawhide on May 01, 2014, 02:06:34 PM
Nally your wasting you time talking to someone who has their mind already made up. Deadwood man, let it go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 02:04:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
So referencing Jean McConville during a debate on welfare reform isn't "dragging up" her name?

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
So referencing Jean McConville during a debate on welfare reform isn't "dragging up" her name?

"Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties".

Whether or not you intended it when you wrote it, that statement reads as if it is dripping with antipathy towards the victim.

Disingenuous horseshit once again Muppet. I have described Jean McConville's murder elsewhere on this board as "obscene" and have put on record that I am "disgusted" at the disappearing of bodies. As my repeated posts today have made abundantly clear, and as you continue to dance around, my problem is not with the victim, but with the elevation of two victims over all others. As well you know.

Well if it was obscene then surely you have no problem with it being investigated?

If there are allegations then any respectable police force would have to act on them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 02:04:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
So referencing Jean McConville during a debate on welfare reform isn't "dragging up" her name?

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?

Your use of the words 'dragged up' when referring to victims names says it all.

There is an allegation of the involvement of Adams in the McConville murder. If you wan to heighten awareness of other events please highlight them also, rather than attack any mention of these victims.
So referencing Jean McConville during a debate on welfare reform isn't "dragging up" her name?

"Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties".

Whether or not you intended it when you wrote it, that statement reads as if it is dripping with antipathy towards the victim.

Disingenuous horseshit once again Muppet. I have described Jean McConville's murder elsewhere on this board as "obscene" and have put on record that I am "disgusted" at the disappearing of bodies. As my repeated posts today have made abundantly clear, and as you continue to dance around, my problem is not with the victim, but with the elevation of two victims over all others. As well you know.

Well if it was obscene then surely you have no problem with it being investigated?

If there are allegations then any respectable police force would have to act on them.

Dancing around my entire point once again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 02:22:20 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on May 01, 2014, 02:06:34 PM
Nally your wasting you time talking to someone who has their mind already made up. Deadwood man, let it go.

I think you were right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 02:25:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 02:21:58 PM
Dancing around my entire point once again.

The point is the Jean McConville murder investigation.

If you think other murders should also be on the agenda, and I agree with you on that, then simply highlight those as well.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on May 01, 2014, 02:36:21 PM
QuoteIs that a serious question? Are you implying that he must be guilty because his arrest has been welcomed by the victims son?

Well - it's not a deadly serious question but is there no weight that can be applied to his comments seeing as, unlike all of us, he was there when she was lifted and may, just may, know more then he is willing or able to formally tell to the peelers or to be made public.

Or could he be just:

- relying on hearsay and was being feed a load of nonsense.
- have a personal grudge against Gerry Adams and now sees a time to sow the boot in as he, like some former activists, sees Adams and McGuinness as sell-out merchants for helping to end the major part of the conflict.

His comments have to be considered with the 'court of public opinion'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 01, 2014, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on May 01, 2014, 02:06:34 PM
Nally your wasting you time talking to someone who has their mind already made up. Deadwood man, let it go.

(http://theinfiniteabysses.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/nathan.gif?w=362&h=204)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 03:09:46 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/05/01/five-key-questions-and-answers-about-gerry-adams-arrest/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/05/01/five-key-questions-and-answers-about-gerry-adams-arrest/)

Gerry Adams, the leader of Sinn Fein and one of the key figures in the Northern Ireland peace process, has been arrested on suspicion of involvement in the murder some 40 years ago of Jean McConville, a widowed mother of 10. It's too early to say how, or indeed whether, he'll be charged, or how strong the evidence is against him. But this will certainly have important political repercussions. As an ersatz expert in Irish politics, (I'm from Ireland; I have a masters' degree in Irish politics) here's my take:

How important is Gerry Adams for Irish politics?
Not as important as he used to be. There have been widespread allegations that Adams played a leadership role in the IRA, and Ireland's prime minister, Enda Kenny, has challenged Adams to come clean on his past involvement in the organization. Sinn Fein, his political party, hasn't sought to bury its past relationship with the Irish Republican Army's terrorist campaign, but it hasn't heavily emphasized that association either. It's not a vote winner. Adams represents an older generation in Sinn Fein, which is plausibly an electoral liability in much of the Republic of Ireland. He has also been seriously damaged by the revelation last year that his brother, Liam Adams, sexually abused his 5-year-old daughter, and that he (Gerry Adams) knew about the abuse in 2000 and didn't report it until 2009.

What are the consequences for peace in Northern Ireland?
Very hard to say. A lot will depend on how Sinn Fein and the IRA (which is intimately associated with Sinn Fein) react. Under the peace agreement, large numbers of IRA prisoners were released. The status of those who had not been charged with crimes (and hence weren't prisoners at the time) was left ambiguous. However, Sinn Fein clearly believed that it had secured an effective commitment that the people who were responsible for these crimes would be left unprosecuted. If Sinn Fein pulls out of the government of Northern Ireland, it will immediately precipitate a political crisis. If the party just makes loud angry noises, the current power sharing arrangement will survive. For now, Sinn Fein is just making loud angry noises.

Adams isn't the first person with IRA ties to be arrested in connection with this murder: Ivor Bell, a former chief of staff on the IRA's army council, was charged last month with aiding and abetting the killing. And while Sinn Fein complained vociferously, it did not threatened to abandon its role in government over Bell's arrest. Adams is, of course, a much more visible figure, even if he is politically damaged. Outside observers used to allege that Sinn Fein's decisions were dictated by the IRA's army council. It will be interesting to observe what role the relicts of the IRA play in Sinn Fein's decision-making this time.

How will the Irish government react?
The Irish government will be concerned about maintaining political stability in Northern Ireland. It will not have any particular desire to help Gerry Adams, except insofar as it's necessary toward that end. First of all, Sinn Fein is a potent political threat to government parties in the Republic of Ireland, and was forecast to do well in the forthcoming local and European Parliament elections. Second, there has long been a hostile relationship between Fine Gael, the majority party in the Irish government, and Sinn Fein. The two parties have their origins in different sides on the Irish civil war; Fine Gael has always seen itself as the party of the Irish state and of law and order, while Sinn Fein until very recently saw itself as the sole true heir of an Irish republicanism that had been abandoned by southern Ireland. While the two parties have had to work together, because of Sinn Fein's role in power sharing in the Northern Ireland government, they do not like each other. Sinn Fein's presence as a political force on both sides of the border is usually a strength. This time around, it may be a liability.

How will this affect Sinn Fein's electoral prospects?
It will likely damage them in the Republic of Ireland. The McConville murder was one of the more sordid and brutal events of Northern Ireland's "Troubles." Although the IRA alleged that Jean McConville was an informer, others have suggested that her crime was merely to offer water to a wounded British soldier. Adams himself has described the murder as a "grievous injustice." Sinn Fein has worked quite successfully to reposition itself as an anti-economic austerity party, soft-pedaling its past connections to terrorism. This will remind voters that the past is not buried very deep. It is likely to have far less impact on likely Sinn Fein voters in Northern Ireland, who are effectively inured to past terrorist incidents.

What are the long term consequences for Irish politics?
If a broader crisis is averted, its most important consequence may be to rapidly accelerate a generational change in Sinn Fein. Younger politicians like Mary Lou McDonald, a member of the Irish Parliament, are better positioned to sell the party to Irish voters. Over the longer term, they may change Sinn Fein from a party dominated by its lingering association with terrorism to one with a broader left-wing agenda.

Henry Farrell
Henry Farrell is associate professor of political science and international affairs at George Washington University. He works on a variety of topics, including trust, the politics of the Internet and international and comparative political economy. In addition to his academic work, he has written for Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, the Financial Times, Democracy, the Washington Monthly and The American Prospect as well as other publications. He is on Twitter at @henryfarrell.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 01, 2014, 03:57:38 PM
Shinners pedalling their own BS here again.  I see they're organising a hunger strike rally in Dromore soon enough. They don't want to dwell on all of the past, just the bits that show them in a favourable light. Why is it so hard to acknowledge the heinous crime that was McConville's murder and work towards a resolution of the affair? Why be so petty as to belittle it by countering with a British murder?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 04:00:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 01, 2014, 03:57:38 PM
They don't want to dwell on all of the past, just the bits that show them in a favourable light.

Richard Hass would probably tell you otherwise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 04:08:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 04:00:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 01, 2014, 03:57:38 PM
They don't want to dwell on all of the past, just the bits that show them in a favourable light.

Richard Hass would probably tell you otherwise.

Yip, SF were in favour of proposals that addressed the past and unfortunately for everyone, the Unionists rejected them.

Hypothetically speaking, if (in the unlikely event that) Adams was found guilty of some charge associated with the Jean McConville murder, and if he got a custodial sentence, would he be eligible to apply for release under the GFA? I am guessing he would.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bensars on May 01, 2014, 04:12:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 04:08:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 04:00:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 01, 2014, 03:57:38 PM
They don't want to dwell on all of the past, just the bits that show them in a favourable light.

Richard Hass would probably tell you otherwise.

Yip, SF were in favour of proposals that addressed the past and unfortunately for everyone, the Unionists rejected them.

Hypothetically speaking, if (in the unlikely event that) Adams was found guilty of some charge associated with the Jean McConville murder, and if he got a custodial sentence, would he be eligible to apply for release under the GFA? I am guessing he would.

Said on radio earlier that Good friday arrangements/amnesties applied to events where information led the discovery of the dissappered.

In the Jean Mc Conville case although attempts were made to find the body , they never did and her body was  subsequently found by a walker, thus making those  arrangements/amnesties in this case no longer valid.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 04:46:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 04:08:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 04:00:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 01, 2014, 03:57:38 PM
They don't want to dwell on all of the past, just the bits that show them in a favourable light.

Richard Hass would probably tell you otherwise.

Yip, SF were in favour of proposals that addressed the past and unfortunately for everyone, the Unionists rejected them.

Hypothetically speaking, if (in the unlikely event that) Adams was found guilty of some charge associated with the Jean McConville murder, and if he got a custodial sentence, would he be eligible to apply for release under the GFA? I am guessing he would.

Adams will be home for his tea tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 01, 2014, 04:48:21 PM
Here comes the spin - did he mean to say reformers or informers ?

Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness has claimed Gerry Adams' arrest is due to a "dark side" within policing conspiring with enemies of the peace process.

He added that the detention was a "deliberate attempt to influence the outcome of elections" in three weeks.

Mr Adams is being questioned about the 1972 murder of Jean McConville but has denied involvement in her death.

Prime Minister David Cameron said there had been "absolutely no political interference in this issue".

Northern Ireland First Minister Peter Robinson said it would be "political policing" if Mr Adams was not questioned.


'Dark side'

The Sinn Féin president remains in custody after presenting himself at Antrim police station on Wednesday evening.

Mr McGuinness, Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister, told a press conference at Stormont that the arrest of his party leader and "friend" was politically motivated.

He claimed Sinn Féin had been told by "senior" and "reforming" figures within the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) that "there was still a dark side within policing here in the north of Ireland".


"I think we have seen that dark side flex its muscles in the course of the last couple of days," he added.

"We know who they are. The reformers know who they are," Mr McGuinness told reporters.


He said some former republicans who were "maliciously and vehemently hostile to the peace process" had been targeting Mr Adams and the Sinn Féin peace strategy for a considerable period of time.

"It is quite disappointing to see the efforts of those people now in consort with the dark side within policing," Mr McGuinness said.

Speaking to Irish broadcaster RTE before his arrest, Mr Adams said he was "innocent of any part" in the murder of Mrs McConville
However, Mr Robinson said the detention was proof that no-one in Northern Ireland was above the law.

"Is anybody going to say to me that if the police are aware of claims and evidence in relation to such a barbaric killing that it would be political policing for them to question those who have been suggested to have been involved?

"I would suggest to you that it would be political policing if the PSNI had not questioned those that were deemed to have been involved in any way," the DUP leader said.

"I cannot say whether Mr Adams will be charged or released, whether he will be held for a further period, whether even if charged he might be convicted .

"But what I can say is that it strengthens our political process in Northern Ireland for people to know that no-one is above the law - everyone is equal under the law and everyone is equally subject to the law."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 01, 2014, 04:50:56 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 04:46:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2014, 04:08:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 01, 2014, 04:00:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 01, 2014, 03:57:38 PM
They don't want to dwell on all of the past, just the bits that show them in a favourable light.

Richard Hass would probably tell you otherwise.

Yip, SF were in favour of proposals that addressed the past and unfortunately for everyone, the Unionists rejected them.

Hypothetically speaking, if (in the unlikely event that) Adams was found guilty of some charge associated with the Jean McConville murder, and if he got a custodial sentence, would he be eligible to apply for release under the GFA? I am guessing he would.

Adams will be home for his tea tomorrow evening.

Will he not get fed in the canteen like the rest ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 01, 2014, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 01, 2014, 04:48:21 PM
However, Mr Robinson said the detention was proof that no-one in Northern Ireland was above the law.

"Is anybody going to say to me that if the police are aware of claims and evidence in relation to such a barbaric killing that it would be political policing for them to question those who have been suggested to have been involved?

"I would suggest to you that it would be political policing if the PSNI had not questioned those that were deemed to have been involved in any way," the DUP leader said.

"I cannot say whether Mr Adams will be charged or released, whether he will be held for a further period, whether even if charged he might be convicted .

"But what I can say is that it strengthens our political process in Northern Ireland for people to know that no-one is above the law - everyone is equal under the law and everyone is equally subject to the law."
With the obvious exception British soldiers/agents/informers etc etc  >:( >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 01, 2014, 06:44:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyx5g5L91tg
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 01, 2014, 10:30:09 PM
Nally Stand. Lets be clear.

Gerry McCabe died protecting people from terrorist scumbags and Jean McConville was murdered by terrorist scumbags.

These are indisputable facts.

Who, exactly, the scumbags were is a matter for investigation. However, whoever they were, somebody did murder these people. Nothing you say will change that fact.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 01, 2014, 10:34:25 PM
The coloured lad in that video has a Nordie accent for some strange reason.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on May 01, 2014, 10:41:55 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 01, 2014, 10:34:25 PM
The coloured lad in that video has a Nordie accent for some strange reason.
He ended up in Eastenders.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on May 01, 2014, 10:44:30 PM
So, it's been 24 hours? Any word?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 01, 2014, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on May 01, 2014, 10:44:30 PM
So, it's been 24 hours? Any word?

You'd expect something by now all right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on May 01, 2014, 10:47:41 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 01, 2014, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on May 01, 2014, 10:44:30 PM
So, it's been 24 hours? Any word?

You'd expect something by now all right.

They arrested him at about half eight yesterday according to the twitter account. In these cases if you hold someone without the due process of an extension the law is fairly clear...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on May 01, 2014, 10:48:46 PM
Can be held for 48 hours according to RTE
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2014, 10:55:54 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 01, 2014, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on May 01, 2014, 10:44:30 PM
So, it's been 24 hours? Any word?

You'd expect something by now all right.

This is from Peter Robinson:

"I cannot say whether Mr Adams will be charged or released, whether he will be held for a further period, whether even if charged he might be convicted .

"But what I can say is that it strengthens our political process in Northern Ireland for people to know that no-one is above the law - everyone is equal under the law and everyone is equally subject to the law."

I prefer Gárdaí speak.

'A man is helping Gárdaí with their enquiries."

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 01, 2014, 11:18:36 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 01, 2014, 10:48:46 PM
Can be held for 48 hours according to RTE
Yes was on local news at 10.30 there that he can be held in Antrim custody suite until 8ish tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 12:47:32 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 01, 2014, 10:30:09 PM
Nally Stand. Lets be clear.

Gerry McCabe died protecting people from terrorist scumbags and Jean McConville was murdered by terrorist scumbags.

These are indisputable facts.

Who, exactly, the scumbags were is a matter for investigation. However, whoever they were, somebody did murder these people. Nothing you say will change that fact.
And this is your justification for their elevation above all other victims (which has been my issue all along)? You do realise they were not the only two victims of the conflict?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 12:50:26 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 12:47:32 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 01, 2014, 10:30:09 PM
Nally Stand. Lets be clear.

Gerry McCabe died protecting people from terrorist scumbags and Jean McConville was murdered by terrorist scumbags.

These are indisputable facts.

Who, exactly, the scumbags were is a matter for investigation. However, whoever they were, somebody did murder these people. Nothing you say will change that fact.
And this is your justification for their elevation above all other victims (which has been my issue all along)? You do realise they were not the only two victims of the conflict?

So unless we punish everyone involved we should punish none? That what you're saying.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 01:32:15 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 12:50:26 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 12:47:32 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 01, 2014, 10:30:09 PM
Nally Stand. Lets be clear.

Gerry McCabe died protecting people from terrorist scumbags and Jean McConville was murdered by terrorist scumbags.

These are indisputable facts.

Who, exactly, the scumbags were is a matter for investigation. However, whoever they were, somebody did murder these people. Nothing you say will change that fact.
And this is your justification for their elevation above all other victims (which has been my issue all along)? You do realise they were not the only two victims of the conflict?

So unless we punish everyone involved we should punish none? That what you're saying.
Jaysus between you, muppet and mike do any of ye actually read my posts at all or so you just insist on putting words in my mouth and then try to have an argument based on them?

For the umpteenth time, my issue is not with the victims or investigations into victims but is with the hierarchy of victims and the fact that, in the 26 counties there are two names elevated waayyy above any others by people who would struggle to name one other victim, so my argument has nothing to do with "punishment" as you misleadingly suggest. Jerry McCabe's killers for instance, have been punished. They have been caught, tried and served sentences. However, it his his name along with Jean McConville's which continues to be dragged up for political gain (see Enda Kenny's response to a question from Gerry Adams on welfare reform in a recent Dáil debate, for instance). I follow enough political forums and follow enough media to see that in the 26 counties, when discussion turns to the six counties and the conflict, that despite over 3,500 deaths, the same two names are most commonly dragged up before any others. Now before you start slabbering and putting words in my mouth, let me again make it clear: I have no problem with McCabe/McConville cases being discussed, but I do have a problem with the countless others being ignored or forgotten or sadly, being seen as less "useful", because that's what happens in a hierarchy. A few months ago on Prime Time, for instance, we were treated to the spectacle of the chairman of FG dragging up the usual two names and going on to tell us that the IRA murdered over 3,000 people during the conflict. So the Chairman of the largest government partner in the state, speaking on the national broadcaster, presented as fact the claim that all the victims of the conflict were killed by the IRA, and yet presenter didn't even feel it important enough to clarify that the IRA in fact didn't carry out all the killings of the conflict. It was a narrative that was permitted to go unchallenged. At the time of the SPAD bill, Joe Byrne typified the mindset which is so prevalent in the 26 counties when he stated: "the innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA". What does that day to the families of state/loyalist murders? That their lost family members aren't as important as others. How often do you read the name of Jerry McCabe (a case solved long ago) compared to the name of Joan Connolly for instance, who's family have as recently as this week, been denied access to an investigation into her death?



Another article from Jude Collins, echoing my points from above:
http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/jean-mcconvilles-death-one-horror-among-many/ (http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/jean-mcconvilles-death-one-horror-among-many/)
"Why, I wonder, of all the horrors that the Troubles visited on us, is the death of  Jean McConville  receiving such attention? Perhaps because she was a woman and a mother of ten children. Perhaps because her body was not discovered for decades after her death. Perhaps because it seems so horrible that a person would be killed for helping a dying soldier. There was an investigation into claims that she had been passing information secretly to the authorities – that is, spying – but an investigation found no evidence of this. She was killed, as were many others, by the IRA. Whether it was because she comforted a dying soldier, or because the IRA thought she was passing information to the authorities, seems to matter little now.

Her death certainly was a cruel and brutal one. As were so many other deaths during the Troubles. From the many hundreds, here are a few.

 

"When they killed my darling, they killed me too. Despite my outward appearance I am dead, so this seemed a sensible solution. Let me also tell you, Mum and Dad, how very much I love you and how very sorry I am for the pain I've caused."

- Note left by girl who took her own life after loyalists killed her boyfriend

 

"As I bury my son, both of you bury your pride. I don't want any mother or father going through what my wife and I went through today. Please stop this. Bury your pride with my boy. To those who've done this, I and my family forgive you."

- Father of Catholic man shot by loyalists

 

"I took hold of the other Catholic and set myself up as judge, jury and executioner. I beat him to death with a breeze block in an alleyway off the Shankill."

 

"Nobody, nobody, has ever, ever, ever said to me, 'I'm sorry about your eldest son, your first-born son, I am sorry that I killed your son'."

- Mother of Derry youth knocked down by an Army vehicle

 

 "The despair would hurt you now and again. I'll never get rid of her name – she wrote it anywhere, inside the airing cupboard and on books. I was changing a pillowcase and she had written her name on the inside of it."

- Mother of 14-year-old schoolgirl killed by a plastic bullet.

 

And then there are the dozens of deaths catalogued by Anne Cadwallader in her bookLethal Allies, where innocent people were killed by loyalist gangs working in conjunction with British military authorities.

None of this is to take away an iota from the suffering caused by Jean McConville's death or the suffering passed onto her ten children. But so harrowing are  even the few cases I've instanced above, I can't rid myself of the suspicion that Mrs McConville's death has been plucked out from the hundreds of other heart—crushing stories because it can be used as a political weapon. Do those who shout loudest about the pity of her lonely death secretly rejoice in the political club it provides?

Perhaps I'm wrong – I don't know enough about the case. But if I am, the question remains: why her?"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 03:10:47 AM
You're making stuff up again there Nally, you were the man responsible for bringing up McCabe (on page 138), there was no mention of him on the previous 5 pages of discussion until you brought it up. We were discussing the McConville case as we're entitled to do given the recent events and had made no mention of him until you dragged it up. So therefore you can't blame us for dragging up McCabe to cost the Shinners precious votes in the Dail, that's completely false.

If a discussion broke on here about Joan Connolly, the hunger strikers or bloody Sunday you can be damn sure that you wouldn't wade in with the line "lets not have a hierarchy of victims, lets give a mention to McCabe, McConville, etc". You'd be there Brit-bashing for your dead worth. So to come into a discussion on McConville and to straight off the bat start crying about a hierarchy is hypocritical. You're main objection to the discussion is that it portrays the IRA in a bad light and the "hierarchy" claim is just a convenient excuse to hide it behind.

I wonder at all those hunger striker marches and IRA commemorations do they stick to your principles of preventing a vicitim hierarchy? If I every wander close enough to one I might find out, but I'd be fairly sure they don't, just like all the paratrooper memorials or Orange Order marches. Insulated in your own wee worlds we're it's all "we were right and they were wrong" and that's my I have nothing but contempt for both schools of thought.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 09:00:27 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 01, 2014, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on May 01, 2014, 10:44:30 PM
So, it's been 24 hours? Any word?

You'd expect something by now all right.

As I posted earlier (keep up everyone!) Adams can be held for a second 24 hours on the say so of a police superintendent, so effectively he can be held for up to 48 hours.

However I have to say (with my paranoid Nordie head) that the longer he is held it does make me wonder, do they have something on him other than the Boston Tapes that we don't know about?  Maybe they have or maybe they just want to make him stew for a while.  My gut feeling initially was that he would have been released sometime last night.  If they go to a judge today to extend his detention then Adams might be in s-h-1-t.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 09:02:18 AM
Choreography lads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:08:03 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 03:10:47 AM
You're making stuff up again there Nally, you were the man responsible for bringing up McCabe (on page 138), there was no mention of him on the previous 5 pages of discussion until you brought it up. We were discussing the McConville case as we're entitled to do given the recent events and had made no mention of him until you dragged it up. So therefore you can't blame us for dragging up McCabe to cost the Shinners precious votes in the Dail, that's completely false.

If a discussion broke on here about Joan Connolly, the hunger strikers or bloody Sunday you can be damn sure that you wouldn't wade in with the line "lets not have a hierarchy of victims, lets give a mention to McCabe, McConville, etc". You'd be there Brit-bashing for your dead worth. So to come into a discussion on McConville and to straight off the bat start crying about a hierarchy is hypocritical. You're main objection to the discussion is that it portrays the IRA in a bad light and the "hierarchy" claim is just a convenient excuse to hide it behind.

I wonder at all those hunger striker marches and IRA commemorations do they stick to your principles of preventing a vicitim hierarchy? If I every wander close enough to one I might find out, but I'd be fairly sure they don't, just like all the paratrooper memorials or Orange Order marches. Insulated in your own wee worlds we're it's all "we were right and they were wrong" and that's my I have nothing but contempt for both schools of thought.

Very good post.

Talk of a hierarchy of victims is merely obfuscation and diversion tactics. It certainly isn't a credible argument to anyone on the outside looking in at SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:10:29 AM
Take your head our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

What a coincidence...over 3,000 victims and look at the two names you managed to pull out:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23586.msg1265601#msg1265601 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23586.msg1265601#msg1265601)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:10:29 AM
Take your had our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

If you come from where I come from, the first name would probably be - John Morley. Your life savings would be gone.

Jerry McCabe would certainly be high on the list, Jean McConville's name means very little in the context of the 3000 other victims. Pat Finucane would also be a name people would recall. Most people remember the Warrington bombing for the hideous death of the 2 children. They probably wouldn't remember the names but if I said Jonathon Ball and Tim Parry it might ring a bell.

People of a certain age might say the Miami Showband victims while those of a rugby bent might mention what happened Nigel Carr. Others will remember Loughlinisland because iirc that was the one where the victims were watching the ROI soccer team in the World Cup.

All hideous. A left families grieving.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 10:05:14 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:10:29 AM
Take your had our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

If you come from where I come from, the first name would probably be - John Morley. Your life savings would be gone.

Jerry McCabe would certainly be high on the list, Jean McConville's name means very little in the context of the 3000 other victims. Pat Finucane would also be a name people would recall. Most people remember the Warrington bombing for the hideous death of the 2 children. They probably wouldn't remember the names but if I said Jonathon Ball and Tim Parry it might ring a bell.

People of a certain age might say the Miami Showband victims while those of a rugby bend might mention what happened Nigel Carr. Others will remember Loughlinisland because iirc that was the one where the victims were watching the ROI soccer team in the World Cup.

All hideous. A left families grieving.
My life saving wouldn't be gone. I said if I travelled across the 26 counties; not "if I travelled around muppets homeplace". If I had the time or the inclination,  I could post an endless list of posts from political discussion boards and news articles related to the conflict and the same clueless morons rehash two very specific names ad nauseum. Ditto for the Taoiseach and the FF leader. They have the right to mention these two victims all they want but what they don't have the right to do is use them for political purposes and to totally sideline thousands of other victims families who aren't as "useful" or recognisable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 10:22:23 AM
One of the daughters of Jean McConville, who was murdered by the IRA 42 years ago, has told the BBC's Newsnight programme she is prepared to give police the names of the people she believes were responsible for her mother's death.

Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams is being questioned by police in Antrim about the murder.

Mrs McConville's daughter, Helen McKendry, said she was no longer afraid to speak out.

"I do not fear the IRA any more. I will happily give the names that I know to the police... Any help that I can give to catch the people who killed my mother, I will do it."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 10:31:30 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 10:05:14 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:10:29 AM
Take your had our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

If you come from where I come from, the first name would probably be - John Morley. Your life savings would be gone.

Jerry McCabe would certainly be high on the list, Jean McConville's name means very little in the context of the 3000 other victims. Pat Finucane would also be a name people would recall. Most people remember the Warrington bombing for the hideous death of the 2 children. They probably wouldn't remember the names but if I said Jonathon Ball and Tim Parry it might ring a bell.

People of a certain age might say the Miami Showband victims while those of a rugby bend might mention what happened Nigel Carr. Others will remember Loughlinisland because iirc that was the one where the victims were watching the ROI soccer team in the World Cup.

All hideous. A left families grieving.
My life saving wouldn't be gone. I said if I travelled across the 26 counties; not "if I travelled around muppets homeplace". If I had the time or the inclination,  I could post an endless list of posts from political discussion boards and news articles related to the conflict and the same clueless morons rehash two very specific names ad nauseum. Ditto for the Taoiseach and the FF leader. They have the right to mention these two victims all they want but what they don't have the right to do is use them for political purposes and to totally sideline thousands of other victims families who aren't as "useful" or recognisable.

By 'policial purposes' you presumably mean, to score political points over Gerry Adams? Is that correct?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 10:32:17 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 10:22:23 AM
One of the daughters of Jean McConville, who was murdered by the IRA 42 years ago, has told the BBC's Newsnight programme she is prepared to give police the names of the people she believes were responsible for her mother's death.

Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams is being questioned by police in Antrim about the murder.

Mrs McConville's daughter, Helen McKendry, said she was no longer afraid to speak out.

"I do not fear the IRA any more. I will happily give the names that I know to the police... Any help that I can give to catch the people who killed my mother, I will do it."

Based on Ed Moloney's description of the info on the Boston Tapes it's my understanding that Jean McConville was abducted from the flat by members of Cumann Na mBan who were masked.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 10:38:07 AM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/01/sinn-fein-boss-gerry-adams-wanted-this-murder-bust.html

Ed Moloney's take on this.  Basically he says that this is part of a calculated gamble by Adams to once and for all get the hoodoo of the Jean McConville case off his back.

If so, why are the Mary Lou and Marty so hot and bothered about this?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 10:50:40 AM
Sinn Fein claim David Cameron phoned Martin McGuinness about Adams' arrest, not the other way round.  It's getting like a feckin' soap opera!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?

Yes, absolutely.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 02, 2014, 11:25:54 AM
Quote from: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 10:50:40 AM
Sinn Fein claim David Cameron phoned Martin McGuinness about Adams' arrest, not the other way round.  It's getting like a feckin' soap opera!

(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00013/p6sinn_13401b.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 11:46:35 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?

Yes, absolutely.

Agreed.

Enda Kenny is a politician and playing politics is the arena he has to live with.

Here is a front page article on Enda in the Indo: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/fionnan-sheahan/fionnan-sheahan-like-caesars-wife-enda-sees-value-of-transparency-26839919.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/fionnan-sheahan/fionnan-sheahan-like-caesars-wife-enda-sees-value-of-transparency-26839919.html)

It tells us the shocking news that Enda owns his house, his office, both in Mayo, an apartment in Dublin and a field in Mayo. It goes on to tell us that he didn't have to declare all of it, and that he didn't one year, but that he did another year. That is the level of absurdity that passes for scrutiny of politicians in the south.

Now if an elected TD, who is also a leader of a political party who is aiming to get into Government, has former comrades who appear  to allege he was involved in something a lot more serious, then surely in any open democracy, the voting public, the press and other politicians are entitled to some answers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 02, 2014, 12:08:26 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 09:00:27 AM
However I have to say (with my paranoid Nordie head) that the longer he is held it does make me wonder, do they have something on him other than the Boston Tapes that we don't know about?  Maybe they have or maybe they just want to make him stew for a while.  My gut feeling initially was that he would have been released sometime last night.  If they go to a judge today to extend his detention then Adams might be in s-h-1-t.

They have interviewed other people.  The tapes alone would hardly merit an extension although it's within the cops remit.  If the North is anything like to south then the first extension wouldn't be questioned at all.  It's at the whim of a superintendent.

If it goes further you think that Bell or someone else gave something up.

My first thought was that Adams thought he be seen to cooperate voluntarily and put the thing to bed.  Then he could shut Enda et al. up each time they gave a chirp.

I am beginning to wonder though, Mary Lou definitely seems rattled.

If some of the family are now willing to name names then that will really ramp up the investigation activity.

Also listening to Michael McConville and Helen McKendry on the radio,  it must be said that it if they are truthful then republicans are guilty of more than their mother's murder.  Both spoke of constant intimidation from the very next day after their mother's disappearance.  Michael claimed that every time he got a job the IRA threatened the foreman/manager to get rid of him.  Helen said she was regularly threatened by people including some of the gang that took her mother away.

That sort of carry-on is alien to a lot of voters that Sinn Féin are looking to garner.  So orchestrated/political motivated or not this could have electoral repercussions.

/Jim.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on May 02, 2014, 12:57:23 PM
Jim, are mixing up those nice people in Sinn Fein with the psychopathic scumbags of the IRA?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 02, 2014, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?

Yes, absolutely.
Why not ask a hypothetical foolish one about Enda Kenny,  a question based on a fantasy supposition of a connection to a past atrocity from , to give weight to the veracity of an antagonistic opinion. ;D

I take it that the opinion is, that it's alright to endlessly drag more milage out of the republican actions/supposed stuff/rumoured stuff that happened from the 25 year war, that there is no point where a treaty can be signed and a line can be drawn, because you have the opinion that if the shoe was on the other foot, Sinn Fein would be throwing atrocity mud at the government? ;D

This farce of arresting Adams will be seen for what it is, a crude farce, a laughable farce that will have no impact on Sinn Fein. Desperate times for desperate people.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:10:29 AM
Take your head our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

What a coincidence...over 3,000 victims and look at the two names you managed to pull out:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23586.msg1265601#msg1265601 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23586.msg1265601#msg1265601)

Firstly I haven't a f**king penny in life savings so gamble whatever way you want. Secondly, unlike your good self I'm not an apologist for any political party, so I've no excuse for what Byrne said. I'll form my own opinions and not blindly follow the utterances of a politician.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 01:11:06 PM
Who's opinion Main Street?

My opinion is that politics is a dog's game, and anyone who gets to a certain level of power is going to be well able to take advantage of any baggage that an opponent has. That's why I think this whole thing is politically motivated, rather than anything to do with justice for JEan McConville.

But if the shoe was on the other foot, would I expect Sinn Fein to do the same? I think the same comment applies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 01:12:19 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 02, 2014, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?

Yes, absolutely.
Why not ask a hypothetical foolish one about Enda Kenny,  a question based on a fantasy supposition of a connection to a past atrocity from , to give weight to the veracity of an antagonistic opinion. ;D

I take it that the opinion is, that it's alright to endlessly drag more milage out of the republican actions/supposed stuff/rumoured stuff that happened from the 25 year war, that there is no point where a treaty can be signed and a line can be drawn, because you have the opinion that if the shoe was on the other foot, Sinn Fein would be throwing atrocity mud at the government? ;D

This farce of arresting Adams will be seen for what it is, a crude farce, a laughable farce that will have no impact on Sinn Fein. Desperate times for desperate people.

Did you miss my post where I showed a real Sunday Indo front page article on Enda's field?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 01:51:16 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27255574

Political Policing??

Teresa Villiers was told on Monday that Adams would be "questioned" (does that mean arrested?) over the McConville case.  She was told by one of her minions who had been told by the PSNI.  Why did the PSNI feel the need to inform her that Adams was about to be arrested??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 02:04:11 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 01:51:16 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27255574

Political Policing??

Teresa Villiers was told on Monday that Adams would be "questioned" (does that mean arrested?) over the McConville case.  She was told by one of her minions who had been told by the PSNI.  Why did the PSNI feel the need to inform her that Adams was about to be arrested??

And why did she feel it necessary to make this public?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 02, 2014, 02:30:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 02, 2014, 12:59:58 PM
I take it that the opinion is, that it's alright to endlessly drag more milage out of the republican actions/supposed stuff/rumoured stuff that happened from the 25 year war, that there is no point where a treaty can be signed and a line can be drawn, because you have the opinion that if the shoe was on the other foot, Sinn Fein would be throwing atrocity mud at the government? ;D

Pretty much, yeah. Politics south of the border is still framed by a long-finished war and the treaty that followed it.

As an aside,  I feel as much disdain for Enda Kenny and his constant invoking of Jean McConville whenever the mood takes him as I do for the Shinners and their poor-little-us routine on the subject.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 03:09:00 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/gerry-adams-arrested-senior-republicans-evelyn-gilroy-and-peter-rodgers-refuse-to-give-statements-to-psni-over-sinn-fein-leader-30239086.html

I heard Brian Rowan allude to this on the Radio this morning.  It seems that yesterday the PSNI approached two veteran republicans who have been vociferous in their criticism of Adams and asked them for statements implicating him in IRA activity.  It seems both refused.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 03:22:45 PM
PSNI apply for more time to question Adams.

Seems they're determined to get him for something!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: muppet 919.html/url]
Now if an elected TD, who is also a leader of a political party who is aiming to get into Government, has former comrades who appear  to allege he was involved in something a lot more serious, then surely in any open democracy, the voting public, the press and other politicians are entitled to some answers?
Ah then that would explain why Gilmore always gets such a rough ride in the media and in the dáil about his past. #yeahright
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:10:29 AM
Take your head our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

What a coincidence...over 3,000 victims and look at the two names you managed to pull out:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23586.msg1265601#msg1265601 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23586.msg1265601#msg1265601)

Firstly I haven't a f**king penny in life savings so gamble whatever way you want. Secondly, unlike your good self I'm not an apologist for any political party, so I've no excuse for what Byrne said. I'll form my own opinions and not blindly follow the utterances of a politician.
I provided his quote as evidence to support my argument. An argument you were challenging. But sure if it's too much bother for you...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 03:37:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: muppet 919.html/url]
Now if an elected TD, who is also a leader of a political party who is aiming to get into Government, has former comrades who appear  to allege he was involved in something a lot more serious, then surely in any open democracy, the voting public, the press and other politicians are entitled to some answers?
Ah then that would explain why Gilmore always gets such a rough ride in the media and in the dáil about his past. #yeahright

Which murder is he alleged to know something about?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 03:48:34 PM
Nothing to do with GA but interesting nonetheless

365 Royal Pardons issued in NI since 1979.  Who got them??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27260596
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 03:54:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 03:37:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: muppet 919.html/url]
Now if an elected TD, who is also a leader of a political party who is aiming to get into Government, has former comrades who appear  to allege he was involved in something a lot more serious, then surely in any open democracy, the voting public, the press and other politicians are entitled to some answers?
Ah then that would explain why Gilmore always gets such a rough ride in the media and in the dáil about his past. #yeahright

Which murder is he alleged to know something about?
Sure take your pick. Since when had evidence ever mattered in these allegations. Would he usually get a rough ride about organisations he is alleged to have been involved with? Again, yeah right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 04:02:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 03:54:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 03:37:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: muppet 919.html/url]
Now if an elected TD, who is also a leader of a political party who is aiming to get into Government, has former comrades who appear  to allege he was involved in something a lot more serious, then surely in any open democracy, the voting public, the press and other politicians are entitled to some answers?
Ah then that would explain why Gilmore always gets such a rough ride in the media and in the dáil about his past. #yeahright

Which murder is he alleged to know something about?
Sure take your pick. Since when had evidence ever mattered in these allegations. Would he usually get a rough ride about organisations he is alleged to have been involved with? Again, yeah right.

Unlike Gilmore, Gerry has a long line of ex-comrades who seem to want to badmouth him. In this regard he is almost Lance Armstrong like in his unfortunate choice of past associates.

As an aside I was surprised to see he is 65 years of age. He is older than Enda who is by far the longest sitting TD.

Probably time for both of them to exit the spotlight.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sheamy on May 02, 2014, 04:09:26 PM
Ok, so as long as your old 'comrades' don't bad mouth you, then 'in any open democracy, the voting public, the press and other politicians are entitled to some answers?' doesn't apply?

Oh dear.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/99053?condense_comments=true&userlanguage=en&save_prefs=true

I guess if questions are never asked, then we'll never know. The infiltration of the media (north and south) by former workers party members really is a fascinating topic that, for some reason, is never discussed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 04:11:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 04:02:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 03:54:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 03:37:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: muppet 919.html/url]
Now if an elected TD, who is also a leader of a political party who is aiming to get into Government, has former comrades who appear  to allege he was involved in something a lot more serious, then surely in any open democracy, the voting public, the press and other politicians are entitled to some answers?
Ah then that would explain why Gilmore always gets such a rough ride in the media and in the dáil about his past. #yeahright

Which murder is he alleged to know something about?
Sure take your pick. Since when had evidence ever mattered in these allegations. Would he usually get a rough ride about organisations he is alleged to have been involved with? Again, yeah right.

Unlike Gilmore, Gerry has a long line of ex-comrades who seem to want to badmouth him. In this regard he is almost Lance Armstrong like in his unfortunate choice of past associates.

As an aside I was surprised to see he is 65 years of age. He is older than Enda who is by far the longest sitting TD.

Probably time for both of them to exit the spotlight.

Born on 6 October 1948.  Means he was 24 when Jean McConville was abducted.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: sheamy on May 02, 2014, 04:09:26 PM
Ok, so as long as your old 'comrades' don't bad mouth you, then 'in any open democracy, the voting public, the press and other politicians are entitled to some answers?' doesn't apply?

Oh dear.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/99053?condense_comments=true&userlanguage=en&save_prefs=true

I guess if questions are never asked, then we'll never know. The infiltration of the media (north and south) by former workers party members really is a fascinating topic that, for some reason, is never discussed.

Em, someone has to make a serious allegation. Do you understand that?

If someone makes an allegation about Gilmore I will agree wholeheartedly.

The article you linked had only one question for Gilmore: "Will some RTÉ journalist (or indeed any senior journalist) now step up to the plate and ask Eamom Gilmore what, if anything, he knew, about the links between the Workers Party and the Official IRA?"

Good question, and I would like to hear the answer. But not in the same ballpark as being arrested in connection with a specific murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 04:25:15 PM
Police are seeking more time to quiz Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams, the deputy first minister has said.

"We have been told within the last couple of hours that the PSNI are seeking an extension to Gerry Adams' detention," said Martin McGuinness, his party colleague.

Mr Adams, 65, denies allegations that he was involved in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville in 1972.

He has been held for questioning at Antrim police station since Wednesday.

Mr Adams, former MP for West Belfast and an elected representative for County Louth in the Republic of Ireland, voluntarily presented himself for interview.

Mr McGuinness told a news conference: "Yesterday, I said that the timing of the arrest of Gerry Adams was politically motivated.

"Today's decision by the PSNI to seek an extension confirms me in my view."

A new mural of Gerry Adams is being painted on Belfast's Falls Road with the slogan 'Peacemaker, leader, visionary'
Mr McGuinness said the detention of Mr Adams was "a very, very serious situation".


Sinn Féin

He said Sinn Féin supported the progressive elements within the PSNI.

However, he added: "There is a cabal within the PSNI who have a different agenda, a negative and destructive agenda to both the peace process and to Sinn Féin."

He said Sinn Féin had been told this by "very senior members of the PSNI" who had coined the phrase the 'dark side'.

"Am I angry? Yes I am, but it's a very controlled anger," he said.

In regards to Sinn Féin's support for policing in Northern Ireland, he said that would continue if the situation with Mr Adams is resolved in a satisfactory manner.

"If it doesn't, we will have to review that situation."

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 04:25:15 PM
Police are seeking more time to quiz Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams, the deputy first minister has said.

"We have been told within the last couple of hours that the PSNI are seeking an extension to Gerry Adams' detention," said Martin McGuinness, his party colleague.

Mr Adams, 65, denies allegations that he was involved in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville in 1972.

He has been held for questioning at Antrim police station since Wednesday.

Mr Adams, former MP for West Belfast and an elected representative for County Louth in the Republic of Ireland, voluntarily presented himself for interview.

Mr McGuinness told a news conference: "Yesterday, I said that the timing of the arrest of Gerry Adams was politically motivated.

"Today's decision by the PSNI to seek an extension confirms me in my view."

A new mural of Gerry Adams is being painted on Belfast's Falls Road with the slogan 'Peacemaker, leader, visionary'
Mr McGuinness said the detention of Mr Adams was "a very, very serious situation".

Continue reading the main story
"
Start Quote
I believe Gerry Adams will be totally and absolutely exonerated"
End Quote
Martin McGuinness

Sinn Féin

He said Sinn Féin supported the progressive elements within the PSNI.

However, he added: "There is a cabal within the PSNI who have a different agenda, a negative and destructive agenda to both the peace process and to Sinn Féin."

He said Sinn Féin had been told this by "very senior members of the PSNI" who had coined the phrase the 'dark side'.

"Am I angry? Yes I am, but it's a very controlled anger," he said.

In regards to Sinn Féin's support for policing in Northern Ireland, he said that would continue if the situation with Mr Adams is resolved in a satisfactory manner.

"If it doesn't, we will have to review that situation."

QuoteHe said Sinn Féin had been told this by "very senior members of the PSNI" who had coined the phrase the 'dark side'.

Amazing statement. I am beginning to doubt the choreography.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 04:32:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 04:25:15 PM.

Amazing statement. I am beginning to doubt the choreography.

So am I.  If this was ever in SF's control it has now gone beyond that.  My gut now tells me he will be charged...with something, investigations seem to be going beyond the McConville case?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 04:42:21 PM
It's a concerning develiopment looking from the outside in.

But I still can't see Gerry getting charged.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: southdown on May 02, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
If they had nothing on him he would have been released by now...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: southdown on May 02, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
If they had nothing on him he would have been released by now...
If it's politically motivated,  they'll hold him for every minute they can get away with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on May 02, 2014, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 04:25:15 PM
Police are seeking more time to quiz Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams, the deputy first minister has said.

"We have been told within the last couple of hours that the PSNI are seeking an extension to Gerry Adams' detention," said Martin McGuinness, his party colleague.

Mr Adams, 65, denies allegations that he was involved in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville in 1972.

He has been held for questioning at Antrim police station since Wednesday.

Mr Adams, former MP for West Belfast and an elected representative for County Louth in the Republic of Ireland, voluntarily presented himself for interview.

Mr McGuinness told a news conference: "Yesterday, I said that the timing of the arrest of Gerry Adams was politically motivated.

"Today's decision by the PSNI to seek an extension confirms me in my view."

A new mural of Gerry Adams is being painted on Belfast's Falls Road with the slogan 'Peacemaker, leader, visionary'
Mr McGuinness said the detention of Mr Adams was "a very, very serious situation".


Sinn Féin

He said Sinn Féin supported the progressive elements within the PSNI.

However, he added: "There is a cabal within the PSNI who have a different agenda, a negative and destructive agenda to both the peace process and to Sinn Féin."

He said Sinn Féin had been told this by "very senior members of the PSNI" who had coined the phrase the 'dark side'.

"Am I angry? Yes I am, but it's a very controlled anger," he said.

In regards to Sinn Féin's support for policing in Northern Ireland, he said that would continue if the situation with Mr Adams is resolved in a satisfactory manner.

"If it doesn't, we will have to review that situation."



Is this the only democracy in the world where the (joint) prime minister regularly challenges the conduct of the police force for which his government is responsible? In any other country, the slightest suggestion of lack of government confidence in the police would trigger a constitutional crisis. Then again, I suppose the North is a constitutional crisis in itself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 05:01:42 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27256183

Interesting piece from the BBC's Mark Devenport.  Might give a clue as to why the PSNI require more time.

Any electoral fallout of Adams arrest depends on next step.

The arrest of the leader of a mainstream political party for questioning about the barbaric murder of a mother of 10 is such an unprecedented development that it's impossible to think that, in any other context, that party could avoid an electoral meltdown.  But of course Sinn Féin is no ordinary political party - its historic relationship with the IRA is well documented as is its crucial role in brokering the peace.  Sinn Féin voters can be assumed to take a sceptical view of any allegations aimed at their party leaders.  Even if they believe such claims to be true, they may have already factored in involvement with IRA violence as part and parcel of Northern Ireland's conflict and go on to engage in predictable "whataboutery" - what about the failure to hold inquiries into alleged collusion, what about unionist links to loyalist paramilitaries, and so on.

Assessing the political fallout is, therefore, not straightforward - not least because at the time of writing, Gerry Adams is still being interviewed. The consequences will depend on what happens next.  That said, Sinn Féin's hold on its Northern Ireland European parliament seat is so strong that it's hard to imagine anything shaking it.  Sinn Féin's surge in popularity south of the border (courtesy of the demise of the Irish Labour Party) has put the party on course for three European seats.  This southern support may prove more permeable than Sinn Féin's hold on its traditional northern strongholds - but equally, if Gerry Adams walks away with no charges arising, the party may attract some sympathy. It certainly hasn't wanted for publicity during this campaign.

The revelation, by Martin McGuinness, that detectives had been discussing Gerry Adams' own writings with the Sinn Féin president took my mind back to the late 1990s, when I spent some long hours in Belfast's Linenhall Library leafing through old copies of An Phoblacht and various other republican pamphlets as part of the research for Man of War, Man of Peace, the Gerry Adams biography I co-authored with David Sharrock. I don't know what kind of literary criticism the PSNI is engaging in, but, in his 1996 autobiography Before The Dawn, Gerry Adams said: "I must write nothing that would place in jeopardy the liberties or the lives of others" and the abduction and murder of Jean McConville did not merit a mention.

Given Mr Adams' regular denials of IRA membership, one route we and other journalists took was to examine the writings penned under his jail pseudonym of Brownie.  In a number of articles Brownie (described humorously by a fellow prisoner 'Solon' as "a lanky, thin bearded, boggin' excuse for a person") makes no bones about his IRA status.  In Before The Dawn, Gerry Adams incorporated a number of his Brownie articles into his account. However when I questioned him about this he insisted that Brownie was a corporate entity - a pseudonym shared by a number of inmates. Gerry Adams explained that any articles in An Phoblacht that contained clear references to IRA membership were the work of other inmates.  Of course, before we reached our conclusions in Man of War, Man of Peace, David and I talked to lots of others sources - fellow republicans, and police, Army and government sources.

However, for all you literary sleuths out there, I invite you to ponder the fate of a hedgehog found by Brownie whilst on 'sentry duty' in the Whiterock area of west Belfast in the early 1970s.  Brownie brings it back to a safe house and drops it on the sofa before announcing he's going to set the hedgehog free.  "If the Paras catch you, it'll look good in the papers," the woman of the house interjects, "IRA man caught with a hedgehog".  So who wrote this? Brownie Gerry or Brownie AN Other? If it's the latter I think he should sue for royalties as the same piece appears under Gerry Adams' own name in his book Cage Eleven with the single alteration that the initials IRA have been edited out. This may have been a judicious alteration for reasons now under discussion, but rather ruins the hedgehog joke.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on May 02, 2014, 05:12:17 PM

The whining about the timing of the arrest "four weeks before an election" is amusing.

What if the PSNI say they did it now because they didn't want to be seen to do it too close to the election? :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: southdown on May 02, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
If they had nothing on him he would have been released by now...
If it's politically motivated,  they'll hold him for every minute they can get away with.

Who specifically do you think is politically motivating it then? Spare the generalities, if you had to pick the person/persons responsible who would they be and what do they gain from it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2014, 05:12:17 PM

The whining about the timing of the arrest "four weeks before an election" is amusing.

What if the PSNI say they did it now because they didn't want to be seen to do it too close to the election? :)

Hardy, though I just looove conspiracy theories, I don't think the timing is hugely significant.  As muppet said earlier if you wanted to scupper SF's electoral standing you'd do it before the General Elections/Assembly Elections, nor Euro/Council elections.  Anyway, in the North at least, I think this will encourage the vote to get out on 22 May to show solidarity with the Great Leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 05:21:00 PM
Sinn Fein? They have been put away, you know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 05:28:43 PM
In honesty they couldn't really have picked a much more convenient time for Sinn Fein. No-one gives a f**k about European elections and anyone who was gonna vote SF in the local's is going to still do that. Do you really think they'll be haemorrhaging votes to the DUP or Alliance because of this? Bullshit, they'll lose a few hundred votes, 1000 max I would think. Would have been alot more damaging in the face of a Dail or Assembly election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 02, 2014, 05:29:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 05:21:00 PM
Sinn Fein? They have been put away, you know.
Hopefully you'll be next Syfín. ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: southdown on May 02, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
If they had nothing on him he would have been released by now...
If it's politically motivated,  they'll hold him for every minute they can get away with.

Who specifically do you think is politically motivating it then? Spare the generalities, if you had to pick the person/persons responsible who would they be?
"Who specifically"? "Pick the person"? Are you for real?

Do you remember the 'Save Dave' campaign? Do you remember when the media were ready and waiting to capture carefully choreographed images of 18 RUC landrovers full of RUC men arriving to seize documents from SF's big 'spyring'? The same seized documents were later revealed to have been two CDs. One a copy of MS Word, one a copy of a SF election manifesto. Both discretely returned days later when the damage had been achieved. The high profile arrest associated with this? That of Dennis Donaldson, later revealed to have been the security force's 'man on the inside'. It was the single biggest farce of political policing in years. Everyone saw right through it. Now since when were escapades like this every easily attributed to a specifically named person. Sometimes it's just abundantly clear the motives and the various groups which stand to gain though. Like "stormontgate", most people appear to be seeing right through this latest playact. Worth remembering that this investigation's progress is based on the "Boston tapes" - recorded allegations by deceased people who can't expand on their claims and who, to a man/woman, despised Gerry Adams.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 04:32:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 04:25:15 PM.

Amazing statement. I am beginning to doubt the choreography.

So am I.  If this was ever in SF's control it has now gone beyond that.  My gut now tells me he will be charged...with something, investigations seem to be going beyond the McConville case?

Whatever the rest of us think, the SF leadership saying this is 'politically motivated' is using rhetoric about as benign as they could possibly use and still appease their own support. Politicians accusing people of playing politics isn't really a shock to the average non-SF Joe either.

But if the choreography is off, then I think we should all be concerned.

If the PSNI screw this up there could be massive consequences.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 05:59:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 02, 2014, 05:29:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 05:21:00 PM
Sinn Fein? They have been put away, you know.
Hopefully you'll be next Syfín. ;D

I only shoot people with a telephoto lens.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.

Do they just have something against people called Gerry?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:20:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.

Do they just have something against people called Gerry?

Gerry Fitt got some bad stick too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.

Do they just have something against people called Gerry?

Not a Gerry, but I recall Martin Ferris being arrested in the lead up to the 2002 elections.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.

Do they just have something against people called Gerry?

Aye, Gerry Kelly is sweating
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 06:28:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.

Do they just have something against people called Gerry?

Not a Gerry, but I recall Martin Ferris being arrested in the lead up to the 2002 elections.

I have more than a feeling that Martin is Whitier than white though.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 06:28:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.

Do they just have something against people called Gerry?

Not a Gerry, but I recall Martin Ferris being arrested in the lead up to the 2002 elections.

I have more than a feeling that Martin is Whitier than white though.  ;D

Wasn't there a bad man called Whitey Bugler ? He was Irish wasn't he ?.

It turned out in the end that he worked for the government.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 06:28:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.

Do they just have something against people called Gerry?

Not a Gerry, but I recall Martin Ferris being arrested in the lead up to the 2002 elections.

I have more than a feeling that Martin is Whitier than white though.  ;D

Wasn't there a bad man called Whitey Bugler ? He was Irish wasn't he ?.

It turned out in the end that he worked for the government.

Yip the FBI agent involved was John Connelly who grew up near where Bulger grew up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 07:01:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 06:28:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.

Do they just have something against people called Gerry?

Not a Gerry, but I recall Martin Ferris being arrested in the lead up to the 2002 elections.

I have more than a feeling that Martin is Whitier than white though.  ;D

Wasn't there a bad man called Whitey Bugler ? He was Irish wasn't he ?.

It turned out in the end that he worked for the government.

Yip the FBI agent involved was John Connelly who grew up near where Bulger grew up.

Was Whitey Bugler anything to Brendan that pucks a bit for Clare ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 07:09:17 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 07:01:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 06:28:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 02, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
Politically motivated.

Did they not arrest Gerry Mc Geough at a polling station a while back ?.

Do they just have something against people called Gerry?

Not a Gerry, but I recall Martin Ferris being arrested in the lead up to the 2002 elections.

I have more than a feeling that Martin is Whitier than white though.  ;D

Wasn't there a bad man called Whitey Bugler ? He was Irish wasn't he ?.

It turned out in the end that he worked for the government.

Yip the FBI agent involved was John Connelly who grew up near where Bulger grew up.

Was Whitey Bugler anything to Brendan that pucks a bit for Clare ?
Aye, on their mother's side.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 07:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
Do you remember the 'Save Dave' campaign? Do you remember when the media were ready and waiting to capture carefully choreographed images of 18 RUC landrovers full of RUC men arriving to seize documents from SF's big 'spyring'? The same seized documents were later revealed to have been two CDs. One a copy of MS Word, one a copy of a SF election manifesto. Both discretely returned days later when the damage had been achieved. The high profile arrest associated with this? That of Dennis Donaldson, later revealed to have been the security force's 'man on the inside'. It was the single biggest farce of political policing in years. Everyone saw right through it. Now since when were escapades like this every easily attributed to a specifically named person. Sometimes it's just abundantly clear the motives and the various groups which stand to gain though. Like "stormontgate", most people appear to be seeing right through this latest playact. Worth remembering that this investigation's progress is based on the "Boston tapes" - recorded allegations by deceased people who can't expand on their claims and who, to a man/woman, despised Gerry Adams.

So just the pigs then? I dunno, hard to see what's in it for them. SF have been backing/congratulating the police for years now and as part of the ruling coalition, influence on the police. I mean how did this "dark side" manage to fly under the Shinner radar for so long? if you were a psni lad why risk your job, your reputation, your working relationship with your colleagues just to stick it to the Shinners?

And surely they had to get it sanctioned by the echelons too? Detective Dipshit and Constable Cop didn't just one day decide they could lift Gerry and keep him for a few days. The extension had to be signed off by the head honcho's and that so why isn't Martin laying into Matt Baggot for his role in this arrest or other senior police figures? And I thought the police service now was flooded with taigs? Surely some of the lads involved in Gerry's arrest/investigation have to be taigs, it couldn't all be Sammy and Jeffrey and Scott. I mean if a few Catholics are involved does the "proud sons of Ulster" badge still apply for this "dark side"?

I dunno, there's loads that doesn't make sense here and there's plenty we don't know yet. I don't see how this is just a spiteful act of a few Billy Boys.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 07:27:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 07:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
Do you remember the 'Save Dave' campaign? Do you remember when the media were ready and waiting to capture carefully choreographed images of 18 RUC landrovers full of RUC men arriving to seize documents from SF's big 'spyring'? The same seized documents were later revealed to have been two CDs. One a copy of MS Word, one a copy of a SF election manifesto. Both discretely returned days later when the damage had been achieved. The high profile arrest associated with this? That of Dennis Donaldson, later revealed to have been the security force's 'man on the inside'. It was the single biggest farce of political policing in years. Everyone saw right through it. Now since when were escapades like this every easily attributed to a specifically named person. Sometimes it's just abundantly clear the motives and the various groups which stand to gain though. Like "stormontgate", most people appear to be seeing right through this latest playact. Worth remembering that this investigation's progress is based on the "Boston tapes" - recorded allegations by deceased people who can't expand on their claims and who, to a man/woman, despised Gerry Adams.

So just the pigs then? I dunno, hard to see what's in it for them. SF have been backing/congratulating the police for years now and as part of the ruling coalition, influence on the police. I mean how did this "dark side" manage to fly under the Shinner radar for so long? if you were a psni lad why risk your job, your reputation, your working relationship with your colleagues just to stick it to the Shinners?

And surely they had to get it sanctioned by the echelons too? Detective Dipshit and Constable Cop didn't just one day decide they could lift Gerry and keep him for a few days. The extension had to be signed off by the head honcho's and that so why isn't Martin laying into Matt Baggot for his role in this arrest or other senior police figures? And I thought the police service now was flooded with taigs? Surely some of the lads involved in Gerry's arrest/investigation have to be taigs, it couldn't all be Sammy and Jeffrey and Scott. I mean if a few Catholics are involved does the "proud sons of Ulster" badge still apply for this "dark side"?

I dunno, there's loads that doesn't make sense here and there's plenty we don't know yet. I don't see how this is just a spiteful act of a few Billy Boys.

Add in the fact that Gerry went in himself. Obviously he was asked to come in and some conversation would have been had between the sides. Was he mislead? It would be the most basic trap of all time if he was.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 07:32:53 PM
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23706 (http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23706)

SINN FÉIN Deputy Leader Mary Lou McDonald TD reiterates her view that Garda 'whistleblowers' must be afforded the opportunity to state their case and be questioned before the Dáil Public Accounts Committee.

Meanwhile, Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams TD has called for greater oversight and accountability of An Garda Síochána along the lines of the Patten reforms in the North.

"Sinn Féin recognises the essential role of An Garda Síochána, and the commitment that gardaí show in fulfilling their duties. A fully-resourced police service, responsive to the demands of citizens and the community, is essential.

"Recent events have raised serious questions around Garda oversight and accountability. What is required is an independent policing authority, accountable to a representative policing board, along the lines of what is now in place in the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 07:46:20 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 02, 2014, 07:35:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 07:27:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 07:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
Do you remember the 'Save Dave' campaign? Do you remember when the media were ready and waiting to capture carefully choreographed images of 18 RUC landrovers full of RUC men arriving to seize documents from SF's big 'spyring'? The same seized documents were later revealed to have been two CDs. One a copy of MS Word, one a copy of a SF election manifesto. Both discretely returned days later when the damage had been achieved. The high profile arrest associated with this? That of Dennis Donaldson, later revealed to have been the security force's 'man on the inside'. It was the single biggest farce of political policing in years. Everyone saw right through it. Now since when were escapades like this every easily attributed to a specifically named person. Sometimes it's just abundantly clear the motives and the various groups which stand to gain though. Like "stormontgate", most people appear to be seeing right through this latest playact. Worth remembering that this investigation's progress is based on the "Boston tapes" - recorded allegations by deceased people who can't expand on their claims and who, to a man/woman, despised Gerry Adams.

So just the pigs then? I dunno, hard to see what's in it for them. SF have been backing/congratulating the police for years now and as part of the ruling coalition, influence on the police. I mean how did this "dark side" manage to fly under the Shinner radar for so long? if you were a psni lad why risk your job, your reputation, your working relationship with your colleagues just to stick it to the Shinners?

And surely they had to get it sanctioned by the echelons too? Detective Dipshit and Constable Cop didn't just one day decide they could lift Gerry and keep him for a few days. The extension had to be signed off by the head honcho's and that so why isn't Martin laying into Matt Baggot for his role in this arrest or other senior police figures? And I thought the police service now was flooded with taigs? Surely some of the lads involved in Gerry's arrest/investigation have to be taigs, it couldn't all be Sammy and Jeffrey and Scott. I mean if a few Catholics are involved does the "proud sons of Ulster" badge still apply for this "dark side"?

I dunno, there's loads that doesn't make sense here and there's plenty we don't know yet. I don't see how this is just a spiteful act of a few Billy Boys.

Add in the fact that Gerry went in himself. Obviously he was asked to come in and some conversation would have been had between the sides. Was he mislead? It would be the most basic trap of all time if he was.
He was hardly going to go on the run ffs.

He instructed his solicitor to contact the PSNI on the matter sometime before 25th March according to this:  http://www.theirishworld.com/?p=7102 (http://www.theirishworld.com/?p=7102)

Here he is speaking to RTE 'on his way to meet' the PSNI: http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2014/0430/20571325-sinn-fein-president-gerry-adams-being-interviewed-by-psni/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2014/0430/20571325-sinn-fein-president-gerry-adams-being-interviewed-by-psni/)

The timing looks to be his. If he stayed down south until after the election he would not be 'on the run'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 07:51:27 PM
PSNI get another 48 hrs to question GA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 08:09:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 07:32:53 PM
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23706 (http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23706)

SINN FÉIN Deputy Leader Mary Lou McDonald TD reiterates her view that Garda 'whistleblowers' must be afforded the opportunity to state their case and be questioned before the Dáil Public Accounts Committee.

Meanwhile, Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams TD has called for greater oversight and accountability of An Garda Síochána along the lines of the Patten reforms in the North.

"Sinn Féin recognises the essential role of An Garda Síochána, and the commitment that gardaí show in fulfilling their duties. A fully-resourced police service, responsive to the demands of citizens and the community, is essential.

"Recent events have raised serious questions around Garda oversight and accountability. What is required is an independent policing authority, accountable to a representative policing board, along the lines of what is now in place in the North.

And time will tell that Gerry will get, say that he's been questioned up and down, that he is innocent, has not done any wrong and that he told you so.

And don't mention it again.

All done and dusted.












Hopefully.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:01:12 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 07:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
Do you remember the 'Save Dave' campaign? Do you remember when the media were ready and waiting to capture carefully choreographed images of 18 RUC landrovers full of RUC men arriving to seize documents from SF's big 'spyring'? The same seized documents were later revealed to have been two CDs. One a copy of MS Word, one a copy of a SF election manifesto. Both discretely returned days later when the damage had been achieved. The high profile arrest associated with this? That of Dennis Donaldson, later revealed to have been the security force's 'man on the inside'. It was the single biggest farce of political policing in years. Everyone saw right through it. Now since when were escapades like this every easily attributed to a specifically named person. Sometimes it's just abundantly clear the motives and the various groups which stand to gain though. Like "stormontgate", most people appear to be seeing right through this latest playact. Worth remembering that this investigation's progress is based on the "Boston tapes" - recorded allegations by deceased people who can't expand on their claims and who, to a man/woman, despised Gerry Adams.

So just the pigs then? I dunno, hard to see what's in it for them. SF have been backing/congratulating the police for years now and as part of the ruling coalition, influence on the police. I mean how did this "dark side" manage to fly under the Shinner radar for so long? if you were a psni lad why risk your job, your reputation, your working relationship with your colleagues just to stick it to the Shinners?

And surely they had to get it sanctioned by the echelons too? Detective Dipshit and Constable Cop didn't just one day decide they could lift Gerry and keep him for a few days. The extension had to be signed off by the head honcho's and that so why isn't Martin laying into Matt Baggot for his role in this arrest or other senior police figures? And I thought the police service now was flooded with taigs? Surely some of the lads involved in Gerry's arrest/investigation have to be taigs, it couldn't all be Sammy and Jeffrey and Scott. I mean if a few Catholics are involved does the "proud sons of Ulster" badge still apply for this "dark side"?

I dunno, there's loads that doesn't make sense here and there's plenty we don't know yet. I don't see how this is just a spiteful act of a few Billy Boys.

Putting words in my mouth again? I said that as with the "stormontgate" and the 'save dave' farce, there were numerous groups who stood/who stand to gain. And as with the big spyring (eh hem), I would assume that it was orchestrated at a level quite a bit above that of Constable Cop or Detective Dipshit's level. I that I think most people are shrewd enough to recognise a political move when they see one, from wherever it came. The general reaction since yesterday seems to me as one of acceptance of this from most.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 02, 2014, 09:12:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 07:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
Do you remember the 'Save Dave' campaign? Do you remember when the media were ready and waiting to capture carefully choreographed images of 18 RUC landrovers full of RUC men arriving to seize documents from SF's big 'spyring'? The same seized documents were later revealed to have been two CDs. One a copy of MS Word, one a copy of a SF election manifesto. Both discretely returned days later when the damage had been achieved. The high profile arrest associated with this? That of Dennis Donaldson, later revealed to have been the security force's 'man on the inside'. It was the single biggest farce of political policing in years. Everyone saw right through it. Now since when were escapades like this every easily attributed to a specifically named person. Sometimes it's just abundantly clear the motives and the various groups which stand to gain though. Like "stormontgate", most people appear to be seeing right through this latest playact. Worth remembering that this investigation's progress is based on the "Boston tapes" - recorded allegations by deceased people who can't expand on their claims and who, to a man/woman, despised Gerry Adams.

So just the pigs then? I dunno, hard to see what's in it for them. SF have been backing/congratulating the police for years now and as part of the ruling coalition, influence on the police. I mean how did this "dark side" manage to fly under the Shinner radar for so long? if you were a psni lad why risk your job, your reputation, your working relationship with your colleagues just to stick it to the Shinners?

And surely they had to get it sanctioned by the echelons too? Detective Dipshit and Constable Cop didn't just one day decide they could lift Gerry and keep him for a few days. The extension had to be signed off by the head honcho's and that so why isn't Martin laying into Matt Baggot for his role in this arrest or other senior police figures? And I thought the police service now was flooded with taigs? Surely some of the lads involved in Gerry's arrest/investigation have to be taigs, it couldn't all be Sammy and Jeffrey and Scott. I mean if a few Catholics are involved does the "proud sons of Ulster" badge still apply for this "dark side"?

I dunno, there's loads that doesn't make sense here and there's plenty we don't know yet. I don't see how this is just a spiteful act of a few Billy Boys.
A few important points highlighted there. If there were these so called 'dark forces', how come we're only hearing about them now? What has SF been doing on the Policing Board? Has this ever even been mentioned before? And yes, i'd assume this arrest was approved at the highest levels of the PSNI - does that mean the 'dark forces' are at the top of the PSNI, or influence the top of the PSNI? If that's the case, it's even more difficult to understand why we're only hearing of this now.

McGuinness had been playing a bit of a blinder on 'law and order' matters recently, in stark contrast to some of the politicians on the other side of the house. It's baffling that he hasn't held it together a bit better this time. I don't think he's achieving anything with his current approach.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:15:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 02, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
Quote
The timing looks to be his. If he stayed down south until after the election he would not be 'on the run'.
What I mean is, if the peelers wanted to arrest him, they wouldn't need to 'trap' him.

Fair enough, but if he wanted to wait till after the election they would have had a whole load of court appearances, warrants & extradition procedures to go through before he could have been considered to be not co-operating.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 09:15:56 PM
They know better than to give statements.


Meanwhile, two senior republicans have refused to give statements in the past 24 hours to the PSNI implicating Gerry Adams in IRA activity, independent.ie has learned today.

As the Sinn Fein leader continues to be questioned by detectives at Antrim PNSI base, we have learned that officers asked for statements from Evelyn Gilroy and Peter Rodgers.

Both have made claims in the past few weeks about Adams.

Rodgers told the Sunday Independent that Adams had ordered him to take unsafe explosive material to Britain for a bombing campaign there.

When asked to give a statement to police on his claims, sources close to Rodgers say he refused.

A close friend of Gilroy, a former internee and veteran republican, says she was also asked for a statement implicating Adams in IRA activity. She also refused despite telling the Sunday Life paper 10 days ago that Adams should be arrested.

Gilroy was an active republican in Divis flats where Jean McConville was abducted in December 1972.

Evelyn Gilroy had said on April 24: "I'm speaking out for the first time because I'm very angry that grassroots republicans are being arrested.

"Police have lifted people who were 15 and 16 at the time of the killing, yet Gerry Adams remains untouched. I'm disgusted that ordinary republicans are being put through the mill for his actions.


"It defies belief that he hasn't been arrested. The police should stop chasing those who were never in a position in the republican movement to order Jean McConville's execution and instead arrest the only person who was in that position -- Gerry Adams.

"He has got away with so much over the years. He now seems to be getting away with this as well. It will be a disgrace if ordinary people end up carrying the can for what he did."

But Gilroy has refused to provide an affidavit backing up her claims.

Republican sources have expressed 'astonishment' that potential witnesses were approached for statements after Mr Adams arrest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 02, 2014, 09:19:44 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 02, 2014, 05:12:17 PM
The whining about the timing of the arrest "four weeks before an election" is amusing.

What if the PSNI say they did it now because they didn't want to be seen to do it too close to the election? :)
Precisely. They could have arrested him a day or two before the election. As it is, he'll either be:
a) released without charge well before the election - and be able to say he's answered all their questions and they have nothing to pursue
or
b) charged with something - in which case he'd be awaiting trial at election time, whether he was arrested this week or two months ago

no?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:29:09 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 09:15:56 PM
They know better than to give statements.


Meanwhile, two senior republicans have refused to give statements in the past 24 hours to the PSNI implicating Gerry Adams in IRA activity, independent.ie has learned today.

As the Sinn Fein leader continues to be questioned by detectives at Antrim PNSI base, we have learned that officers asked for statements from Evelyn Gilroy and Peter Rodgers.

Both have made claims in the past few weeks about Adams.

Rodgers told the Sunday Independent that Adams had ordered him to take unsafe explosive material to Britain for a bombing campaign there.

When asked to give a statement to police on his claims, sources close to Rodgers say he refused.

A close friend of Gilroy, a former internee and veteran republican, says she was also asked for a statement implicating Adams in IRA activity. She also refused despite telling the Sunday Life paper 10 days ago that Adams should be arrested.

Gilroy was an active republican in Divis flats where Jean McConville was abducted in December 1972.

Evelyn Gilroy had said on April 24: "I'm speaking out for the first time because I'm very angry that grassroots republicans are being arrested.

"Police have lifted people who were 15 and 16 at the time of the killing, yet Gerry Adams remains untouched. I'm disgusted that ordinary republicans are being put through the mill for his actions.


"It defies belief that he hasn't been arrested. The police should stop chasing those who were never in a position in the republican movement to order Jean McConville's execution and instead arrest the only person who was in that position -- Gerry Adams.

"He has got away with so much over the years. He now seems to be getting away with this as well. It will be a disgrace if ordinary people end up carrying the can for what he did."

But Gilroy has refused to provide an affidavit backing up her claims.

Republican sources have expressed 'astonishment' that potential witnesses were approached for statements after Mr Adams arrest.

Thus disconnecting themselves from any statement that might have been made?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:29:09 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 09:15:56 PM
They know better than to give statements.


Meanwhile, two senior republicans have refused to give statements in the past 24 hours to the PSNI implicating Gerry Adams in IRA activity, independent.ie has learned today.

As the Sinn Fein leader continues to be questioned by detectives at Antrim PNSI base, we have learned that officers asked for statements from Evelyn Gilroy and Peter Rodgers.

Both have made claims in the past few weeks about Adams.

Rodgers told the Sunday Independent that Adams had ordered him to take unsafe explosive material to Britain for a bombing campaign there.

When asked to give a statement to police on his claims, sources close to Rodgers say he refused.

A close friend of Gilroy, a former internee and veteran republican, says she was also asked for a statement implicating Adams in IRA activity. She also refused despite telling the Sunday Life paper 10 days ago that Adams should be arrested.

Gilroy was an active republican in Divis flats where Jean McConville was abducted in December 1972.

Evelyn Gilroy had said on April 24: "I'm speaking out for the first time because I'm very angry that grassroots republicans are being arrested.

"Police have lifted people who were 15 and 16 at the time of the killing, yet Gerry Adams remains untouched. I'm disgusted that ordinary republicans are being put through the mill for his actions.


"It defies belief that he hasn't been arrested. The police should stop chasing those who were never in a position in the republican movement to order Jean McConville's execution and instead arrest the only person who was in that position -- Gerry Adams.

"He has got away with so much over the years. He now seems to be getting away with this as well. It will be a disgrace if ordinary people end up carrying the can for what he did."

But Gilroy has refused to provide an affidavit backing up her claims.

Republican sources have expressed 'astonishment' that potential witnesses were approached for statements after Mr Adams arrest.

Thus disconnecting themselves from any statement that might have been made?


Surely not.

Smoke and cigars and all that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:38:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:29:09 PM

Thus disconnecting themselves from any statement that might have been made?


Surely not.

Smoke and cigars and all that.

I will rephrase that.

Thus if the PSNI have some statements from somewhere, these two have very publicly distanced themselves from it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 09:39:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:29:09 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 09:15:56 PM
They know better than to give statements.


Meanwhile, two senior republicans have refused to give statements in the past 24 hours to the PSNI implicating Gerry Adams in IRA activity, independent.ie has learned today.

As the Sinn Fein leader continues to be questioned by detectives at Antrim PNSI base, we have learned that officers asked for statements from Evelyn Gilroy and Peter Rodgers.

Both have made claims in the past few weeks about Adams.

Rodgers told the Sunday Independent that Adams had ordered him to take unsafe explosive material to Britain for a bombing campaign there.

When asked to give a statement to police on his claims, sources close to Rodgers say he refused.

A close friend of Gilroy, a former internee and veteran republican, says she was also asked for a statement implicating Adams in IRA activity. She also refused despite telling the Sunday Life paper 10 days ago that Adams should be arrested.

Gilroy was an active republican in Divis flats where Jean McConville was abducted in December 1972.

Evelyn Gilroy had said on April 24: "I'm speaking out for the first time because I'm very angry that grassroots republicans are being arrested.

"Police have lifted people who were 15 and 16 at the time of the killing, yet Gerry Adams remains untouched. I'm disgusted that ordinary republicans are being put through the mill for his actions.


"It defies belief that he hasn't been arrested. The police should stop chasing those who were never in a position in the republican movement to order Jean McConville's execution and instead arrest the only person who was in that position -- Gerry Adams.

"He has got away with so much over the years. He now seems to be getting away with this as well. It will be a disgrace if ordinary people end up carrying the can for what he did."

But Gilroy has refused to provide an affidavit backing up her claims.

Republican sources have expressed 'astonishment' that potential witnesses were approached for statements after Mr Adams arrest.

Thus disconnecting themselves from any statement that might have been made?

Well they've seen where this sort of thing can end up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 09:44:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:38:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:29:09 PM

Thus disconnecting themselves from any statement that might have been made?


Surely not.

Smoke and cigars and all that.

I will rephrase that.

Thus if the PSNI have some statements from somewhere, these two have very publicly distanced themselves from it?


Yes. A statement or even less to the cops could have resulted in a one way to the border.

It wouldn't be worth it now surely but the army towers have all been removed leaving it much more scenic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:01:12 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 07:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
Do you remember the 'Save Dave' campaign? Do you remember when the media were ready and waiting to capture carefully choreographed images of 18 RUC landrovers full of RUC men arriving to seize documents from SF's big 'spyring'? The same seized documents were later revealed to have been two CDs. One a copy of MS Word, one a copy of a SF election manifesto. Both discretely returned days later when the damage had been achieved. The high profile arrest associated with this? That of Dennis Donaldson, later revealed to have been the security force's 'man on the inside'. It was the single biggest farce of political policing in years. Everyone saw right through it. Now since when were escapades like this every easily attributed to a specifically named person. Sometimes it's just abundantly clear the motives and the various groups which stand to gain though. Like "stormontgate", most people appear to be seeing right through this latest playact. Worth remembering that this investigation's progress is based on the "Boston tapes" - recorded allegations by deceased people who can't expand on their claims and who, to a man/woman, despised Gerry Adams.

So just the pigs then? I dunno, hard to see what's in it for them. SF have been backing/congratulating the police for years now and as part of the ruling coalition, influence on the police. I mean how did this "dark side" manage to fly under the Shinner radar for so long? if you were a psni lad why risk your job, your reputation, your working relationship with your colleagues just to stick it to the Shinners?

And surely they had to get it sanctioned by the echelons too? Detective Dipshit and Constable Cop didn't just one day decide they could lift Gerry and keep him for a few days. The extension had to be signed off by the head honcho's and that so why isn't Martin laying into Matt Baggot for his role in this arrest or other senior police figures? And I thought the police service now was flooded with taigs? Surely some of the lads involved in Gerry's arrest/investigation have to be taigs, it couldn't all be Sammy and Jeffrey and Scott. I mean if a few Catholics are involved does the "proud sons of Ulster" badge still apply for this "dark side"?

I dunno, there's loads that doesn't make sense here and there's plenty we don't know yet. I don't see how this is just a spiteful act of a few Billy Boys.

Putting words in my mouth again? I said that as with the "stormontgate" and the 'save dave' farce, there were numerous groups who stood/who stand to gain. And as with the big spyring (eh hem), I would assume that it was orchestrated at a level quite a bit above that of Constable Cop or Detective Dipshit's level. I that I think most people are shrewd enough to recognise a political move when they see one, from wherever it came. The general reaction since yesterday seems to me as one of acceptance of this from most.
To what level then? Cameron, Hague, Devillers, Punt, Baggot? Who's pulling the strings for the "dark side"? I don't particularly care who it is I'd just like to know who you lads all think is the political pusher at the end of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 10:14:30 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:01:12 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 07:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
Do you remember the 'Save Dave' campaign? Do you remember when the media were ready and waiting to capture carefully choreographed images of 18 RUC landrovers full of RUC men arriving to seize documents from SF's big 'spyring'? The same seized documents were later revealed to have been two CDs. One a copy of MS Word, one a copy of a SF election manifesto. Both discretely returned days later when the damage had been achieved. The high profile arrest associated with this? That of Dennis Donaldson, later revealed to have been the security force's 'man on the inside'. It was the single biggest farce of political policing in years. Everyone saw right through it. Now since when were escapades like this every easily attributed to a specifically named person. Sometimes it's just abundantly clear the motives and the various groups which stand to gain though. Like "stormontgate", most people appear to be seeing right through this latest playact. Worth remembering that this investigation's progress is based on the "Boston tapes" - recorded allegations by deceased people who can't expand on their claims and who, to a man/woman, despised Gerry Adams.

So just the pigs then? I dunno, hard to see what's in it for them. SF have been backing/congratulating the police for years now and as part of the ruling coalition, influence on the police. I mean how did this "dark side" manage to fly under the Shinner radar for so long? if you were a psni lad why risk your job, your reputation, your working relationship with your colleagues just to stick it to the Shinners?

And surely they had to get it sanctioned by the echelons too? Detective Dipshit and Constable Cop didn't just one day decide they could lift Gerry and keep him for a few days. The extension had to be signed off by the head honcho's and that so why isn't Martin laying into Matt Baggot for his role in this arrest or other senior police figures? And I thought the police service now was flooded with taigs? Surely some of the lads involved in Gerry's arrest/investigation have to be taigs, it couldn't all be Sammy and Jeffrey and Scott. I mean if a few Catholics are involved does the "proud sons of Ulster" badge still apply for this "dark side"?

I dunno, there's loads that doesn't make sense here and there's plenty we don't know yet. I don't see how this is just a spiteful act of a few Billy Boys.

Putting words in my mouth again? I said that as with the "stormontgate" and the 'save dave' farce, there were numerous groups who stood/who stand to gain. And as with the big spyring (eh hem), I would assume that it was orchestrated at a level quite a bit above that of Constable Cop or Detective Dipshit's level. I that I think most people are shrewd enough to recognise a political move when they see one, from wherever it came. The general reaction since yesterday seems to me as one of acceptance of this from most.
To what level then? Cameron, Hague, Devillers, Punt, Baggot? Who's pulling the strings for the "dark side"? I don't particularly care who it is I'd just like to know who you lads all think is the political pusher at the end of it.
Allow me to turn the question on you: who do you think was behind the stormont "raid" idea?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 02, 2014, 10:18:59 PM
Is Nally Stand on double time ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 10:24:54 PM
http://relativesforjustice.com/adams-arrest-is-positioning-on-truth-end-game/ (http://relativesforjustice.com/adams-arrest-is-positioning-on-truth-end-game/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 10:34:28 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 02, 2014, 10:18:59 PM
Is Nally Stand on double time ?
Surely Muppet & AQMP (and possibly others) have been posting quite a bit more than I have in recent pages? Odd that I'm the one you single out then isn't it? Hmmm

But thanks for yet another fascinating contribution to the discussion saffron. Your depth of analysis, not to mention your meticulous arguments and counter arguments in your posts are an example to us all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 10:47:24 PM
The Guradian

We can be confident that Gerry Adams has not been sitting in his cell chewing on self-doubt. The president of Sinn Féin, who was arrested this week in connection with the 1972 kidnapping, murder and burial of widowed mother-of-10 Jean McConville, has been the target of opprobrium for more than 40 years and has shown himself impervious to it.

He has been imprisoned and shot, and reviled in the media – but has come through all that stoically. When charged with trying to escape from internment in 1974, he sat darning his socks and ignoring proceedings.

Adams knows that he is widely loved by those who supported the IRA through its worst days. Those who were going to desert him in horror over the past have already done so. He has already been through a redemption, if not in his own heart then certainly in the minds of Irish people. What he did before giving up the armed struggle is not considered relevant.

Adams has many times held his nerve and maintained his course when others said he was a murderer, the defender of a child abuser – that is, of his convicted brother Liam – and when journalists harangued him about bombings in which innocents died.

This is a man who doesn't do doubt. This time the party line is that his arrest was politically motivated; that with elections coming in three weeks, this is a way to tarnish Sinn Féin.

North of the border people who vote Sinn Féin are of two types. There are those who supported the IRA and believe the campaign was a good thing. They aren't going to be affected by his arrest; there is nothing for them to be disillusioned about. Then there are republican critics of Adams, who accuse him of selling out for a career. They will be quietly glad he is in difficulty now.

But the major part of the Sinn Féin support base, which is now most of the nationalist community, maintains it loyalty to the party and Gerry Adams as a reward for peacemaking. It wouldn't daunt them were it to emerge that he has blood on his hands; they like him because they know he made war and credit him with having changed.

True, most nationalists rejected the IRA during its armed campaign and voted instead for the SDLP which opposed violent revolution. But those distinctions are dissolving. Last month Clonard monastery in west Belfast held a mass for "the patriot dead", bringing together families of dead IRA bombers and killers. That's how respectable a past in the IRA has become.

Where Adams can suffer is in the Irish Republic. He shifted his political base there and took a seat in the Dublin parliament, the Dáil. For years his party has relentlessly increased its support, yet its northern and southern expressions are growing apart. One irony, if he fell, might be that Sinn Féin would be partitioned, effectively evidence that partition is organic and inevitable in Ireland.

Adams, just a few days ago, was the most popular political leader in the south. And some there will detect machinations behind the decision to arrest him.

But it is not only public opinion that matters. The prospect of political power in the south depends on coalition with at least one of the other big parties. And the leaders of Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil will be squeamish about going into office with, deputising or being deputised by, a man who was a suspect in Jean McConville's horrific murder.

Therefore Adams's southern political ambitions are now dead, whatever happens next. The hard part might be getting such a resilient and impervious man to believe that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2014, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 02, 2014, 10:29:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:15:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 02, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
Quote
The timing looks to be his. If he stayed down south until after the election he would not be 'on the run'.
What I mean is, if the peelers wanted to arrest him, they wouldn't need to 'trap' him.

Fair enough, but if he wanted to wait till after the election they would have had a whole load of court appearances, warrants & extradition procedures to go through before he could have been considered to be not co-operating.
To be fair, it would be a pretty dark cloud hanging over Sinn Fein's election campaign if the leader of their party was actively avoiding the PSNI over the death of Jean McConville. That would look much worse than the situation we currently have.

Has the PSNI publicly stated that they wanted to interview/arrest him. I honestly don't know this and can't find anything on the net.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:11:22 PM
Toys could be fired out of the pram.




Sinn Fein has demanded the release of Gerry Adams after police were granted a further 48 hours to question the party's leader in connection with the 1972 murder of Belfast mother-of-ten Jean McConville.
Adams will spend a third night in a police cell after detectives investigating the murder of Jean McConville asked for more time to question him.
Sinn Fein has today warned it could end its support for law and order in Northern Ireland if Adams is charged - a key peacemaking commitment that enabled the creation of Northern Ireland's unity government seven years ago.
Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness said his party would review its 2007 vote to recognise the legitimacy of Northern Ireland's police if Adams isn't freed without charge.
McGuinness,said Sinn Fein would 'continue to support the reformers within policing' if Adams was freed.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 02, 2014, 11:18:13 PM
You have to ask yourself why they've gone after Adams now. I'm not talking about the upcoming elections. That's an old tactic. Sure they could arrest a lot of politicians on both sides at any time of their choosing with a little bit of digging.

There's something else in the pipeline. The British are often a step ahead of us.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:30:48 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 02, 2014, 11:18:13 PM
You have to ask yourself why they've gone after Adams now. I'm not talking about the upcoming elections. That's an old tactic. Sure they could arrest a lot of politicians on both sides at any time of their choosing with a little bit of digging.

There's something else in the pipeline. The British are often a step ahead of us.

I still believe this all part of the big picture.

SF and Gerry in particular have to get this monkey off their backs. Nobody gives a toss about the European elections that count for very little. If Gerry gets arrested, released unconditionally this is one less skeleton in SF's cupboard and leaves the road less rocky and there can be no more brickbats thrown in Gerry's road.

I firmly believe the Brits don't have much appetite for this fight.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 02, 2014, 11:33:35 PM
I agree with you lads apart from one little niggle - McGuinness' conference today.

His nod to the 'dark element' in the PSNI was a changer I thought, given their commitment to the new service.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:37:28 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 02, 2014, 11:33:35 PM
I agree with you lads apart from one little niggle - McGuinness' conference today.

His nod to the 'dark element' in the PSNI was a changer I thought, given their commitment to the new service.

Again, all part of the game IMO.

Marty had to appear to be extremely pissed. Push the thing on another bit along the road.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 02, 2014, 11:39:00 PM
You're probably correct but that conference coupled with the need for a judge extension today is a bit much if that's the case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:39:10 PM
HS - I'm worried. We're thinking the same way.

Can I sign up for membership of that shebeen of yours ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:43:34 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 02, 2014, 11:42:12 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:39:10 PM
HS - I'm worried. We're thinking the same way.

Can I sign up for membership of that shebeen of yours ?
Of course. You'd want to pay your membership soon though.

Does it get me a premier level seat in the new venture ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 02, 2014, 11:47:56 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 02, 2014, 11:26:17 PM
I still believe that this is a lip service exercise. Adams has presented himself to be arrested. He'll get out and be glad that he can finally put all the finger pointing to bed and he is happy that he was able to assist the peelers with their investigation. The peelers can then say that they did all they could and that there is no evidence against him.

I don't believe that anyone other than her family really cares about Jean McConville. That may seem harsh but I think it true. She's nothing but a stick to bate other.

I think that's true about all the victims, do you think Jim Allister cares about the Travers killings, lots of murders throughout the troubles on both sides are now used by political parties for their own end. Nobody really cares except the families themselves. Everyone else just moves on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:50:40 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 02, 2014, 11:46:27 PM
No but you can put your name up on the board for snooker and enter the Christmas handicap.

No foreign sports should be allowed.

Is there a pool table at least.
Free turkeys at the bazaar ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 12:17:07 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 10:14:30 PM
Allow me to turn the question on you: who do you think was behind the stormont "raid" idea?

Dunno, DUP maybe looking to derail the thing. They say Trimble at the time wanted out and the raid was his excuse.

I'd state what you're trying to say here but don't want to be "putting word's in your mouth". You putting this down to the Punt or not?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 12:26:34 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:30:48 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 02, 2014, 11:18:13 PM
You have to ask yourself why they've gone after Adams now. I'm not talking about the upcoming elections. That's an old tactic. Sure they could arrest a lot of politicians on both sides at any time of their choosing with a little bit of digging.

There's something else in the pipeline. The British are often a step ahead of us.

I still believe this all part of the big picture.

SF and Gerry in particular have to get this monkey off their backs. Nobody gives a toss about the European elections that count for very little. If Gerry gets arrested, released unconditionally this is one less skeleton in SF's cupboard and leaves the road less rocky and there can be no more brickbats thrown in Gerry's road.

I firmly believe the Brits don't have much appetite for this fight.

Not having enough evidence to charge is not the same thing as being found innocent, nor will the public see it that way.

All this has done is remind people of SF's sins and hastened the end of Adam's career.

All that on the assumption he isn't charged and they don't hold someone for four days if there hasn't been some serious progress in the case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 03, 2014, 12:33:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 12:26:34 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:30:48 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 02, 2014, 11:18:13 PM
You have to ask yourself why they've gone after Adams now. I'm not talking about the upcoming elections. That's an old tactic. Sure they could arrest a lot of politicians on both sides at any time of their choosing with a little bit of digging.

There's something else in the pipeline. The British are often a step ahead of us.

I still believe this all part of the big picture.

SF and Gerry in particular have to get this monkey off their backs. Nobody gives a toss about the European elections that count for very little. If Gerry gets arrested, released unconditionally this is one less skeleton in SF's cupboard and leaves the road less rocky and there can be no more brickbats thrown in Gerry's road.

I firmly believe the Brits don't have much appetite for this fight.

Not having enough evidence to charge is not the same thing as being found innocent, nor will the public see it that way.

All this has done is remind people of SF's sins and hastened the end of Adam's career.

All that on the assumption he isn't charged and they don't hold someone for four days if there hasn't been some serious progress in the case.

If Gerry gets released unconditionally, then that's the end of the jibes and insults. And Gerry will take great pleasure in letting his opponents know that he was grilled for 4 days, much longer than the bankers etc.

There will then be a line drawn in the sand and the train will drive on to the next stop.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 03, 2014, 12:46:20 AM
The trouts out / in- former republican "messages" are being painted on the walls on the Falls. And there's a lovely mural of Gerry freshly painted today.

All publicity is good publicity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 03, 2014, 12:49:17 AM
What's to stop a charge? Even if Adams is found after a long trial not guilty? We know what the British are capable of in terms of being wrong and sweeping it under the carpet if it achieved a short term goal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 03, 2014, 01:00:36 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 03, 2014, 12:49:17 AM
What's to stop a charge? Even if Adams is found after a long trial not guilty? We know what the British are capable of in terms of being wrong and sweeping it under the carpet if it achieved a short term goal.

Very simply he's mainstream. It's only them other boys that get 'treatment" now.

The Brits have their own Alibaba and magic carpet shops all over the world including one in Belfast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 02:18:49 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 03, 2014, 12:49:17 AM
What's to stop a charge?

Common sense if they have no evidence. Can't see the Brits hand in all this, they'd pay a fortune to see us drift off into the North Atlantic and out of their f**king hands, why would they give a shit about screwing Gerry over? They've bigger, costlier wars to fight at the minute.

I think they pigs have an ace in the hole here, the Shinners are way to flustered for this just to be a shake-down, there's evidence here that they have that the press doesn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 03, 2014, 04:04:54 AM
Will he be charged with membership of a proscribed organisation?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on May 03, 2014, 07:16:14 AM
If it had been Gerry Kelly instead of Adams he'd have escaped by now
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2014, 09:31:12 AM
Gerry, as he is entitled to do, has protested his innocence.

Martin & Mary Lou are publicly expressing outrage, which is fair enough, but if I were Gerry I would like to hear of my innocence from the rooftops.

Bizzarrely Pearse Doherty, as an example, has only a press release on the Financial Regulator and Setantan Insurance on either his website or twitter feed, which is usually full of action in the last 3 days.

Whenever the real story comes out it will be fascinating, but if this arrest turns into a shambles and destabilises the situation, everyone will lose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 03, 2014, 09:51:13 AM
If Adams was charged with for example membership of a proscribed organisation, sure what about it ?

If Adams gets charged with aiding and abetting like Bell was, sure what about it as well ?.

The only one to suffer loss of credibility and his seat is Gerry. Mary Lou or Pearse gets the top job and someone gets a seat in the Dail.

The unionists get their pound of flesh. For me it will be like going to the dentist. I don't like going. I don't look forward to going. It's not nice getting them injections. But it's not that painful, it doesn't last that long and I'm out of there in a wee while.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 10:34:32 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 09:31:12 AM
Gerry, as he is entitled to do, has protested his innocence.

Martin & Mary Lou are publicly expressing outrage, which is fair enough, but if I were Gerry I would like to hear of my innocence from the rooftops.

Bizzarrely Pearse Doherty, as an example, has only a press release on the Financial Regulator and Setantan Insurance on either his website or twitter feed, which is usually full of action in the last 3 days.

Whenever the real story comes out it will be fascinating, but if this arrest turns into a shambles and destabilises the situation, everyone will lose.
Yeah I find it v interesting too

It won't destabilize anything though
No one has an appetite for war. This will appease loyalist/unionists though.
Some dissidents etc might use the excuse to riot.

I'm wondering - the worst that can happen is if they pin something on Adams.
He prob won't do jail time ( under gfa).
He loses credibility. But why? What else is coming up that they need him off the scene for?
Elections ? Hardly, it won't even dent sf.
New leader will only increase support.
Adams wasn't an IRA man - so what's the real story here?
Will he take the fall for the real guilty person(s)?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 10:53:40 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 03, 2014, 12:33:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 12:26:34 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 11:30:48 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 02, 2014, 11:18:13 PM
You have to ask yourself why they've gone after Adams now. I'm not talking about the upcoming elections. That's an old tactic. Sure they could arrest a lot of politicians on both sides at any time of their choosing with a little bit of digging.

There's something else in the pipeline. The British are often a step ahead of us.

I still believe this all part of the big picture.

SF and Gerry in particular have to get this monkey off their backs. Nobody gives a toss about the European elections that count for very little. If Gerry gets arrested, released unconditionally this is one less skeleton in SF's cupboard and leaves the road less rocky and there can be no more brickbats thrown in Gerry's road.

I firmly believe the Brits don't have much appetite for this fight.

Not having enough evidence to charge is not the same thing as being found innocent, nor will the public see it that way.

All this has done is remind people of SF's sins and hastened the end of Adam's career.

All that on the assumption he isn't charged and they don't hold someone for four days if there hasn't been some serious progress in the case.

If Gerry gets released unconditionally, then that's the end of the jibes and insults. And Gerry will take great pleasure in letting his opponents know that he was grilled for 4 days, much longer than the bankers etc.

There will then be a line drawn in the sand and the train will drive on to the next stop.


Quote from: hardstation on May 03, 2014, 12:34:39 AM
So your mind is made up?

They question him for 4 days and decide he has no case to answer, you pull the "no smoke without fire" line?

If I stood accused of something, I'd hate to see you on the jury.

"He wouldn't be in court if he didn't do it?"

If ye really think Adams being released would do anything other than re-open a plethora of questions and doubt for the public ye've got the Shinner-tinted glasses on.

You can bury Adams' political career in an unmarked grave after this, he is nothing more than a liability to his party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2014, 02:08:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 03, 2014, 02:05:48 PM
I really wonder how Adams has made it this far in politics when an arrest is all that was needed to finish him.

He served time in jail before iirc.

It wasn't so much of an issue then. Ridiculously nowadays, to be seen to be hiding the truth could be more damaging than anything he may or may not have done. I know how daft that sounds.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 02:24:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 02:08:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 03, 2014, 02:05:48 PM
I really wonder how Adams has made it this far in politics when an arrest is all that was needed to finish him.

He served time in jail before iirc.

It wasn't so much of an issue then. Ridiculously nowadays, to be seen to be hiding the truth could be more damaging than anything he may or may not have done. I know how daft that sounds.
What truth would that be muppet?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 02:34:56 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 03, 2014, 02:05:48 PM
I really wonder how Adams has made it this far in politics when an arrest is all that was needed to finish him.

You seem to be assuming he wasn't shakey to begin with. Iron Gerry is looking more like Paper Gerry right now.

Everyone knew he was a liability to his party for a good few years now but no one has been able to convince the man himself of that fact. He resembles a Castro who hasn't realised he has out-lived his shelf-life as a leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2014, 02:50:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 02:24:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 02:08:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 03, 2014, 02:05:48 PM
I really wonder how Adams has made it this far in politics when an arrest is all that was needed to finish him.

He served time in jail before iirc.

It wasn't so much of an issue then. Ridiculously nowadays, to be seen to be hiding the truth could be more damaging than anything he may or may not have done. I know how daft that sounds.
What truth would that be muppet?

I didn't say he was hiding the truth, just if there were a perception that he were hiding something.

This is politics. As LBJ is supposed to have said: "I just want to hear him deny it."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 06:24:26 PM
Oops Shinners still riding high in latest opinion poll,will have to arrest Marty,Pearse and Mary Lou. :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2014, 06:30:33 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 06:24:26 PM
Oops Shinners still riding high in latest opinion poll,will have to arrest Marty,Pearse and Mary Lou. :-[ :-[

Deal!  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 02:50:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 02:24:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 02:08:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 03, 2014, 02:05:48 PM
I really wonder how Adams has made it this far in politics when an arrest is all that was needed to finish him.

He served time in jail before iirc.

It wasn't so much of an issue then. Ridiculously nowadays, to be seen to be hiding the truth could be more damaging than anything he may or may not have done. I know how daft that sounds.
What truth would that be muppet?

I didn't say he was hiding the truth, just if there were a perception that he were hiding something.

This is politics. As LBJ is supposed to have said: "I just want to hear him deny it."
as far as I was aware, adams has denied being member of IRA and being anything to do with mcconville case.

what more can he do

no harm to you muppet, but what you are saying is what everyone is saying and jeez, what more can he do!

im not really an adams fan but feel sorry for him as this is a bit unfair/unjust (esp when more out there actually killed and bombed and disliked adams for not being part of this years ago!!)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2014, 06:59:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 02:50:52 PM
I didn't say he was hiding the truth, just if there were a perception that he were hiding something.

This is politics. As LBJ is supposed to have said: "I just want to hear him deny it."
as far as I was aware, adams has denied being member of IRA and being anything to do with mcconville case.

what more can he do

no harm to you muppet, but what you are saying is what everyone is saying and jeez, what more can he do!

im not really an adams fan but feel sorry for him as this is a bit unfair/unjust (esp when more out there actually killed and bombed and disliked adams for not being part of this years ago!!)

I understand. It actually doesn't carry any weight when Kenny, Martin or Gilmore say it. No one really trusts politicians in the South and how would they know what went on in the IRA anyway?

Some of the links posted on this thread quoting former colleagues making specific allegations against Adams look different, but then I honestly wouldn't know either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:05:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 06:59:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 02:50:52 PM
I didn't say he was hiding the truth, just if there were a perception that he were hiding something.

This is politics. As LBJ is supposed to have said: "I just want to hear him deny it."
as far as I was aware, adams has denied being member of IRA and being anything to do with mcconville case.

what more can he do

no harm to you muppet, but what you are saying is what everyone is saying and jeez, what more can he do!

im not really an adams fan but feel sorry for him as this is a bit unfair/unjust (esp when more out there actually killed and bombed and disliked adams for not being part of this years ago!!)

I understand. It actually doesn't carry any weight when Kenny, Martin or Gilmore say it. No one really trusts politicians in the South and how would they know what went on in the IRA anyway?

Some of the links posted on this thread quoting former colleagues making specific allegations against Adams look different, but then I honestly wouldn't know either.
do you mean the comments Brendan hughes made?
if so read again - he doesn't mention adams!!

wouldn't believe any politicians but the schoolboy antics and jibes in the dail sicken me- on all topics not just sf etc

eg
the gov should allow Ryanair to buy aer lingus stake now (though think EU has vetoed it) after the façade of voting against Christian muellers pay rise.
then theres all the bankers getting off, farse of a banking tribunal and don't get me started on shatter and his false economies of the legal services bill which will end up costing the consumer more in legal fees rather than less just because he wants to stick it to barristers!!

sf haven't pssed me completely off yet, but ff, lab and fg have
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2014, 07:17:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:05:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 06:59:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 03, 2014, 02:50:52 PM
I didn't say he was hiding the truth, just if there were a perception that he were hiding something.

This is politics. As LBJ is supposed to have said: "I just want to hear him deny it."
as far as I was aware, adams has denied being member of IRA and being anything to do with mcconville case.

what more can he do

no harm to you muppet, but what you are saying is what everyone is saying and jeez, what more can he do!

im not really an adams fan but feel sorry for him as this is a bit unfair/unjust (esp when more out there actually killed and bombed and disliked adams for not being part of this years ago!!)

I understand. It actually doesn't carry any weight when Kenny, Martin or Gilmore say it. No one really trusts politicians in the South and how would they know what went on in the IRA anyway?

Some of the links posted on this thread quoting former colleagues making specific allegations against Adams look different, but then I honestly wouldn't know either.
do you mean the comments Brendan hughes made?
if so read again - he doesn't mention adams!!

wouldn't believe any politicians but the schoolboy antics and jibes in the dail sicken me- on all topics not just sf etc

eg
the gov should allow Ryanair to buy aer lingus stake now (though think EU has vetoed it) after the façade of voting against Christian muellers pay rise.
then theres all the bankers getting off, farse of a banking tribunal and don't get me started on shatter and his false economies of the legal services bill which will end up costing the consumer more in legal fees rather than less just because he wants to stick it to barristers!!

sf haven't pssed me completely off yet, but ff, lab and fg have

It wasn't Hughes. Evelyn Gilroy was quoted on this thread, for example. But again I wouldn't know who these people are or what gravitas, if any, they bring to the discussion.

I won't vote FF ever again.
I don't want to see FG or Labour anyone else re-elected again, as it just sends us down the road we went before with FF/PDs becoming so arrogant they listened to no one and destroyed the economy.
SF are the only credible alternative so I am hoping they change a couple of things. One, for me, is obviously the leader. The 2nd is I would really need them to move a bit to the right. I suspect the latter might be harder than the former. That could leave me with no serious party to vote for which is pathetic really, because I see independents as a waste of time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 07:41:30 PM
Where have SF went from the far left!? The far, far left?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2014, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
The N4 through ros is quite good.
The N5 is a disaster alright but it's on  a list somewhere for major improvement.
Anyway it doesn't matter who you elect this year as Councillors have no proper clout and the 11 MEPs are about 2 or 3% of the total.
I'm voting Ming 1, Harkin 2 for Europe and not sure what I'll do for the Council.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 08:56:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2014, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
The N4 through ros is quite good.
The N5 is a disaster alright but it's on  a list somewhere for major improvement.
Anyway it doesn't matter who you elect this year as Councillors have no proper clout and the 11 MEPs are about 2 or 3% of the total.
I'm voting Ming 1, Harkin 2 for Europe and not sure what I'll do for the Council.

Surely you're a Nigel man?

Beautiful new by-pass outside Ballagh taking shape right now. Positively Prenty-esque.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 08:57:10 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!

What is your constituency and who is the SF candidate who isn't decent?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 03, 2014, 08:59:59 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 08:57:10 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!

What is your constituency and who is the SF candidate who isn't decent?

I take it you are going to tell him his opinion is wrong ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2014, 10:06:15 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 08:56:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2014, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
The N4 through ros is quite good.
The N5 is a disaster alright but it's on  a list somewhere for major improvement.
Anyway it doesn't matter who you elect this year as Councillors have no proper clout and the 11 MEPs are about 2 or 3% of the total.
I'm voting Ming 1, Harkin 2 for Europe and not sure what I'll do for the Council.

Surely you're a Nigel man?

There are 3 Constituencies - he's only in one of them so maybe I can't vote for him ;)
After today he'll have to work for his votes :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 03, 2014, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?

Well they are blocking welfare reform but have voted through "tory cuts" in the form of increased pension contributions for public service workers. Trying to ride two horses as usual.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?

I never said I was a Doctor,school teacher,or a lawyer so don't know what you are trying to sAy but however I would like to think SF will look after all sectors including small business.A party that believes in equality  will make sure those on benefits and the working class will benefit from an Ireland of equals.The problem at present in this Ireland is it's the multi nationals,big business and bankers who benefit and the rest suffer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 03, 2014, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?

Well they are blocking welfare reform but have voted through "tory cuts" in the form of increased pension contributions for public service workers. Trying to ride two horses as usual.

Well go and get Dee or Sammy to sort that out for you when they get elected. ;DNot
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 03, 2014, 10:13:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 03, 2014, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?

Well they are blocking welfare reform but have voted through "tory cuts" in the form of increased pension contributions for public service workers. Trying to ride two horses as usual.

Well go and get Dee or Sammy to sort that out for you when they get elected. ;DNot

Dee or Sammy who ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:16:33 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 03, 2014, 10:13:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 03, 2014, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?

Well they are blocking welfare reform but have voted through "tory cuts" in the form of increased pension contributions for public service workers. Trying to ride two horses as usual.

Well go and get Dee or Sammy to sort that out for you when they get elected. ;DNot

Dee or Sammy who ?

;D ;D ;D grow a pair
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 03, 2014, 10:16:43 PM
Sinn Féin's entire concern is with giving money to people from other people, not economic arrangements that would allow people earn their own keep. As as for arrogance and listening to people, this is an organisation that claimed for years that they knew better than 90% of Irish people.

QuoteA party that believes in equality  will make sure those on benefits and the working class will benefit from an Ireland of equals.The problem at present in this Ireland is it's the multi nationals,big business and bankers who benefit and the rest suffer.

The Republic of Ireland has one of the most progressive tax systems in Europe and relatively generous benefits which go on indefinitely. Granted the bankers get away with a lot of shit, but you have to have an actual plan to deal with them, not repaying deposits might be an attractive solution to the classes who drink their income, but it would wreck the economy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:21:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 03, 2014, 10:16:43 PM
Sinn Féin's entire concern is with giving money to people from other people, not economic arrangements that would allow people earn their own keep. As as for arrogance and listening to people, this is an organisation that claimed for years that they knew better than 90% of Irish people.

QuoteA party that believes in equality  will make sure those on benefits and the working class will benefit from an Ireland of equals.The problem at present in this Ireland is it's the multi nationals,big business and bankers who benefit and the rest suffer.

The Republic of Ireland has one of the most progressive tax systems in Europe and relatively generous benefits which go on indefinitely. Granted the bankers get away with a lot of shit, but you have to have an actual plan to deal with them, not repaying deposits might be an attractive solution to the classes who drink their income, but it would wreck the economy.

Have you lived on benefits for any length of time?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2014, 10:06:15 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 08:56:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2014, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
The N4 through ros is quite good.
The N5 is a disaster alright but it's on  a list somewhere for major improvement.
Anyway it doesn't matter who you elect this year as Councillors have no proper clout and the 11 MEPs are about 2 or 3% of the total.
I'm voting Ming 1, Harkin 2 for Europe and not sure what I'll do for the Council.

Surely you're a Nigel man?

There are 3 Constituencies - he's only in one of them so maybe I can't vote for him ;)
After today he'll have to work for his votes :-\

He was canvassing last night sure. Did you see the van in Knockcroghery?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2014, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 10:27:00 PM
Surely you're a Nigel man?

There are 3 Constituencies - he's only in one of them so maybe I can't vote for him ;)
After today he'll have to work for his votes :-\
[/quote]

He was canvassing last night sure. Did you see the van in Knockcroghery?
[/quote]
No comment as anonymity must be maintained  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 10:37:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2014, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 03, 2014, 10:27:00 PM
Surely you're a Nigel man?

There are 3 Constituencies - he's only in one of them so maybe I can't vote for him ;)
After today he'll have to work for his votes :-\

He was canvassing last night sure. Did you see the van in Knockcroghery?
[/quote]
No comment as anonymity must be maintained  ;D
[/quote]

Nigel, is that you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 11:12:39 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?

I never said I was a Doctor,school teacher,or a lawyer so don't know what you are trying to sAy but however I would like to think SF will look after all sectors including small business.A party that believes in equality  will make sure those on benefits and the working class will benefit from an Ireland of equals.The problem at present in this Ireland is it's the multi nationals,big business and bankers who benefit and the rest suffer.
Multinationals and big business employ tens of thousands of people in Ireland. They aren't perfect but big business is more sustainable and puts more back into the economy than carving Long Kesh souvenirs in some PEACE funded office up the Falls or worse than that, ignoring (and arguably perpetuating) the benefits culture in W. Belfast etc. All businesses need focus, from the self-employed to large multinational and everything in between, including encouraging the unemployed that employment is a more viable long-term option than the dole.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 11:25:09 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 11:12:39 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?

I never said I was a Doctor,school teacher,or a lawyer so don't know what you are trying to sAy but however I would like to think SF will look after all sectors including small business.A party that believes in equality  will make sure those on benefits and the working class will benefit from an Ireland of equals.The problem at present in this Ireland is it's the multi nationals,big business and bankers who benefit and the rest suffer.
Multinationals and big business employ tens of thousands of people in Ireland. They aren't perfect but big business is more sustainable and puts more back into the economy than carving Long Kesh souvenirs in some PEACE funded office up the Falls or worse than that, ignoring (and arguably perpetuating) the benefits culture in W. Belfast etc. All businesses need focus, from the self-employed to large multinational and everything in between, including encouraging the unemployed that employment is a more viable long-term option than the dole.

Tony I never said there wasn't a place for multinationals all I was saying is they shouldn't have a special place,they need to pay the right taxes and I know they are important regarding employment.It is all about equality in wages,taxes and opportunities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 11:34:04 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 11:25:09 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 11:12:39 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?

I never said I was a Doctor,school teacher,or a lawyer so don't know what you are trying to sAy but however I would like to think SF will look after all sectors including small business.A party that believes in equality  will make sure those on benefits and the working class will benefit from an Ireland of equals.The problem at present in this Ireland is it's the multi nationals,big business and bankers who benefit and the rest suffer.
Multinationals and big business employ tens of thousands of people in Ireland. They aren't perfect but big business is more sustainable and puts more back into the economy than carving Long Kesh souvenirs in some PEACE funded office up the Falls or worse than that, ignoring (and arguably perpetuating) the benefits culture in W. Belfast etc. All businesses need focus, from the self-employed to large multinational and everything in between, including encouraging the unemployed that employment is a more viable long-term option than the dole.

Tony I never said there wasn't a place for multinationals all I was saying is they shouldn't have a special place,they need to pay the right taxes and I know they are important regarding employment.It is all about equality in wages,taxes and opportunities.
Fair enough. The do get an easy ride in the south which if you believe the papers is now essentially a tax exile for many of them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on May 03, 2014, 11:34:34 PM
Who isn't getting equality glens ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 03, 2014, 11:43:23 PM
I have to concede that I am surprised Gerry isn't out by now.

Tommy Gorman is talking about the cops exploring "other charges" must be a concern.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 11:52:14 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 03, 2014, 11:34:34 PM
Who isn't getting equality glens ?

Would take a long time to answer that but for me,working one parent families,low paid workers esp in the public sector,people in negative equality.I could also start about people who are discriminated against because of their background,colour,sexual preferences,could go on all night but like everything we can only strife to get things right and that will be the biggest test for us all.I know by reading your posts 81 that you will not agree with me because I am a Shinner but that's my opinion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 11:54:36 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 03, 2014, 11:43:23 PM
I have to concede that I am surprised Gerry isn't out by now.

Tommy Gorman is talking about the cops exploring "other charges" must be a concern.

Not at all,they never were going to charge him regarding Jean McConville because that was just lies from the Boston Touts.They have been trying to get enough to charge him with membership.Sinn e
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:02:48 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 11:54:36 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 03, 2014, 11:43:23 PM
I have to concede that I am surprised Gerry isn't out by now.

Tommy Gorman is talking about the cops exploring "other charges" must be a concern.

Not at all,they never were going to charge him regarding Jean McConville because that was just lies from the Boston Touts.They have been trying to get enough to charge him with membership.Sinn e

Keepng Gerry in for 4 days doesn't make sense if all they intend to charge him with is membership ?.

Surely they could have done that after day 1 ?.

What evidence had they for charging Bell with aiding and abetting ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Sdlp view -

SDLP West Belfast MLA Alex Attwood criticised Sinn Féin for staging the rally and said people must stand in support of the McConville family.
He said some people were "on the wrong side of where the great majority of people are".
"It begs many, many questions that a rally was held this afternoon in the shadow of Divis, from the very place where Jean McConville was taken and then murdered," added Mr Attwood.
He continued,"How can any organisation think it appropriate to convene a rally around the arrest of a person in relation to Jean McConville's murder yards from where she was abducted?"
Mr Attwood said the rally was "another example of Sinn Féin displaying fundamentally bad judgment, at the very least, around the recent arrest".
"Martin McGuinness has raised questions about support for policing. The new beginning to policing was hard won and no one should casually undermine it.
"The comments of Mr McGuinness are a challenge to Irish democracy, that somehow one person is bigger than peace or politics. As before, Sinn Féin are on the wrong side of the people of Ireland. "
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 04, 2014, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Sdlp view -

SDLP West Belfast MLA Alex Attwood criticised Sinn Féin for staging the rally and said people must stand in support of the McConville family.
He said some people were "on the wrong side of where the great majority of people are".
"It begs many, many questions that a rally was held this afternoon in the shadow of Divis, from the very place where Jean McConville was taken and then murdered," added Mr Attwood.
He continued,"How can any organisation think it appropriate to convene a rally around the arrest of a person in relation to Jean McConville's murder yards from where she was abducted?"
Mr Attwood said the rally was "another example of Sinn Féin displaying fundamentally bad judgment, at the very least, around the recent arrest".
"Martin McGuinness has raised questions about support for policing. The new beginning to policing was hard won and no one should casually undermine it.
"The comments of Mr McGuinness are a challenge to Irish democracy, that somehow one person is bigger than peace or politics. As before, Sinn Féin are on the wrong side of the people of Ireland. "
Have no time for Attwood at all but would agree with most of this. The placards they were holding earlier saying "Defend The Peace Process" were strange in my opinon. Do SF mean that people potentially involved in ordering these murders must be protected at all costs? The Disappeared are amongst the most divisive cases of the Troubles and aren't going away. Gerry getting sweated for a few days won't undermine the peace process, nor would him getting put inside if it is proved that he was involved. The detectives questioning him are probably sweating more than him!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 04, 2014, 12:26:58 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Sdlp view -

SDLP West Belfast MLA Alex Attwood criticised Sinn Féin for staging the rally and said people must stand in support of the McConville family.
He said some people were "on the wrong side of where the great majority of people are".
"It begs many, many questions that a rally was held this afternoon in the shadow of Divis, from the very place where Jean McConville was taken and then murdered," added Mr Attwood.
He continued,"How can any organisation think it appropriate to convene a rally around the arrest of a person in relation to Jean McConville's murder yards from where she was abducted?"
Mr Attwood said the rally was "another example of Sinn Féin displaying fundamentally bad judgment, at the very least, around the recent arrest".
"Martin McGuinness has raised questions about support for policing. The new beginning to policing was hard won and no one should casually undermine it.
"The comments of Mr McGuinness are a challenge to Irish democracy, that somehow one person is bigger than peace or politics. As before, Sinn Féin are on the wrong side of the people of Ireland. "

Ha ha what a dick,will see how many votes he gets in two weeks time.Having said that he will probably qbe a better leader than the present one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 04, 2014, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 04, 2014, 12:26:58 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Sdlp view -

SDLP West Belfast MLA Alex Attwood criticised Sinn Féin for staging the rally and said people must stand in support of the McConville family.
He said some people were "on the wrong side of where the great majority of people are".
"It begs many, many questions that a rally was held this afternoon in the shadow of Divis, from the very place where Jean McConville was taken and then murdered," added Mr Attwood.
He continued,"How can any organisation think it appropriate to convene a rally around the arrest of a person in relation to Jean McConville's murder yards from where she was abducted?"
Mr Attwood said the rally was "another example of Sinn Féin displaying fundamentally bad judgment, at the very least, around the recent arrest".
"Martin McGuinness has raised questions about support for policing. The new beginning to policing was hard won and no one should casually undermine it.
"The comments of Mr McGuinness are a challenge to Irish democracy, that somehow one person is bigger than peace or politics. As before, Sinn Féin are on the wrong side of the people of Ireland. "

Ha ha what a dick,will see how many votes he gets in two weeks time.Having said that he will probably qbe a better leader than the present one.
They have a leader?  :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 04, 2014, 12:44:45 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 04, 2014, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 04, 2014, 12:26:58 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Sdlp view -

SDLP West Belfast MLA Alex Attwood criticised Sinn Féin for staging the rally and said people must stand in support of the McConville family.
He said some people were "on the wrong side of where the great majority of people are".
"It begs many, many questions that a rally was held this afternoon in the shadow of Divis, from the very place where Jean McConville was taken and then murdered," added Mr Attwood.
He continued,"How can any organisation think it appropriate to convene a rally around the arrest of a person in relation to Jean McConville's murder yards from where she was abducted?"
Mr Attwood said the rally was "another example of Sinn Féin displaying fundamentally bad judgment, at the very least, around the recent arrest".
"Martin McGuinness has raised questions about support for policing. The new beginning to policing was hard won and no one should casually undermine it.
"The comments of Mr McGuinness are a challenge to Irish democracy, that somehow one person is bigger than peace or politics. As before, Sinn Féin are on the wrong side of the people of Ireland. "

Ha ha what a dick,will see how many votes he gets in two weeks time.Having said that he will probably qbe a better leader than the present one.
They have a leader?  :D

Tony so have we and he will still prove to be a better leader than the SDLP ever had.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 04, 2014, 01:32:08 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 04, 2014, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 04, 2014, 12:26:58 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Sdlp view -

SDLP West Belfast MLA Alex Attwood criticised Sinn Féin for staging the rally and said people must stand in support of the McConville family.
He said some people were "on the wrong side of where the great majority of people are".
"It begs many, many questions that a rally was held this afternoon in the shadow of Divis, from the very place where Jean McConville was taken and then murdered," added Mr Attwood.
He continued,"How can any organisation think it appropriate to convene a rally around the arrest of a person in relation to Jean McConville's murder yards from where she was abducted?"
Mr Attwood said the rally was "another example of Sinn Féin displaying fundamentally bad judgment, at the very least, around the recent arrest".
"Martin McGuinness has raised questions about support for policing. The new beginning to policing was hard won and no one should casually undermine it.
"The comments of Mr McGuinness are a challenge to Irish democracy, that somehow one person is bigger than peace or politics. As before, Sinn Féin are on the wrong side of the people of Ireland. "

Ha ha what a dick,will see how many votes he gets in two weeks time.Having said that he will probably qbe a better leader than the present one.
They have a leader?  :D

Do Sinn Fein?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 04, 2014, 01:44:31 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 11:25:09 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 11:12:39 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2014, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 03, 2014, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 03, 2014, 07:38:14 PM
well there is no decent sf candidate in my constituency
im tempted to vote ff but their candidates are no better

independents are ok if you have the likes of a healey-rae blackmailing the gov into getting things for their area etc

funnily enough sf have come a long way right from their initial far left position in the 80's.

id have to be convinced that sf wont fcuk up workers with reasonable incomes as right now we are paying most of the taxes in the state and im afraid that the dole scroungers  and supposed 'poor' people (who get more in benefits than most just above avg industrial wage) will be getting more and we would be getting even less if sf get in...
ive yet to be fully convinced.
theres a few sf candidates in areas who shouldn't be let near the dail

one last thing
ming needs to stop smoking blow and campaign to get th roads in Roscommon improved.
driving to castlebar or Sligo you see the worst roads in Ireland are in Roscommon!
Spot on. Same would apply north and south. Economic policy has to extend to more than showing people how to fill in another claim/grant/bru form. I don't think the shinners are aware there is a private sector economy.

What makes you think that,SF have plenty of members who work in the private sector I myself manager a small company in Lisburn.

I thought SDLP used to be sneered at for being the "school teacher, Doctor, lawyer party" or something along those line and SF represented more of the working classes. SF have always been a self-proclaimed working class party and that has/is alienating people in the middle class. Using yourself as an example is misleading, you're one man in a large volume of people. I seen the lad protesting outside the barracks where Gerry is and he would fit into the demographic lynchboy is talking about quite well.

I'll put it to you this way, if the Shinners came to power would they favour the needs of small company managers like yourself or would they focus more on the families claiming benefits?

I never said I was a Doctor,school teacher,or a lawyer so don't know what you are trying to sAy but however I would like to think SF will look after all sectors including small business.A party that believes in equality  will make sure those on benefits and the working class will benefit from an Ireland of equals.The problem at present in this Ireland is it's the multi nationals,big business and bankers who benefit and the rest suffer.
Multinationals and big business employ tens of thousands of people in Ireland. They aren't perfect but big business is more sustainable and puts more back into the economy than carving Long Kesh souvenirs in some PEACE funded office up the Falls or worse than that, ignoring (and arguably perpetuating) the benefits culture in W. Belfast etc. All businesses need focus, from the self-employed to large multinational and everything in between, including encouraging the unemployed that employment is a more viable long-term option than the dole.

Tony I never said there wasn't a place for multinationals all I was saying is they shouldn't have a special place,they need to pay the right taxes and I know they are important regarding employment.It is all about equality in wages,taxes and opportunities.
Feck sake
It's larger scale business that I'm talking about.
I'm already screwed paying tax that's prob keeping some scrounger in beer money and 'disposable' prams!

Ok sf didn't bring in the over generous welfare system in the south but this gravy train needs to be pared back for the perennial Irish as well as new immigrant scroungers.
Civil service needs to get off their hole and create a proper database - retina scan or fingerprint based- as everything else is open to abuse.
Put the hoors out cleaning the streets.

I'd want the same benefit system as Europe.
Child Medical care mandatory.
But dole, housing, health etc on a reduced level but only after 2 years eligibility period.

Then maybe the workers who are the mainstay of the economy might get a bit of a tax break at last.

To be fair sf are no worse than the rest of the idiot parties down here who are simply self serving.
I just am afraid the higher  salaried will be shafted even more ( slightly larger salaries but paying massively more in tax/stealth tax )

Sorry glens- I don't know who the sf euro candidate is round here ( I don't know any candidates yet).
The council ones I have no clue who they are. Apart from one who runs for the dail and im less than impressed by him to be honest.
I'd love a couple of decent choices in the local constituency - but there isn't
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 09:25:29 AM
JEAN McConville's daughter is to speak to UK lawyers this week with a view to taking a civil action against Sinn Fein over her mother's murder and disappearance.


Helen McKendry and her husband Seamus, who began the campaign to discover the IRA's 'disappeared', say they hope to sue the party based upon their belief that "it's the political wing of the IRA".

They should know later today, when Adams's second 48-hour period of detention expires at 8pm, whether or not he is to face charges over his alleged role in the abduction and murder of Mrs McConville. This could then open the way to any civil action.

In the event that Adams is charged and convicted, Seamus said: "I'd like to take Gerry's holiday home off him. That place in Donegal (Adams' holiday home in Gortahork, which local people estimated would have been worth upwards of €600,000 during the property boom) must we worth a good few quid.

"But we want to sue the party. Sinn Fein is one of the richest parties in Europe. It is definitely the richest party in the British Isles and it is and was the political wing of the IRA which murdered Jean.

"What happened to Jean McConville was a war crime under the Geneva Convention on the forced disappearance of people. Sinn Fein was part of the IRA and it is culpable."

He referred to IRA leadership plans seized by gardai in the 1970s, which outlined how it was to control Sinn Fein and use it as a political tool for agitation alongside the IRA campaign.

The document, entitled 'Staff Report' found at the time of the arrest of IRA army council member, Seamus Twomey, in Dun Laoghaire in December 1977 outlined how the IRA leadership was to direct Sinn Fein to "broaden" its terrorism campaign.

Helen McKendry said she and Seamus "have tried for years to get lawyers interested but nothing happened". But she added: "I can't say exactly what happened but we were contacted and we are to speak to someone next week. All the publicity over Adams being lifted has caused this."

Mrs McKendry, who was left abandoned with her nine brothers and sisters after their mother's murder, said she would like to see her killers brought to justice. "I will do anything to get whoever killed my mother behind bars."

She said she had co-operated with the investigators and had given them names of people who were involved in the kidnapping and murder of her mother. She was unafraid of naming names – something that would have led to her murder in the past.

"What can they do to me that they haven't done, only come and shoot me and how would the world view that?"

She called on her brothers and sisters to also come forward to help the PSNI investigation into the murder.

Any civil case against Sinn Fein or Gerry Adams would likely to resemble the case taken by the families of the August 1998 Omagh 29 bombing victims.

Lawyers for the McConvilles would have to establish a basis for linking Sinn Fein to the leadership of the IRA which could centre around proving Gerry Adams' central role in both organisations, despite his frequent denials.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 09:32:41 AM

EILIS O'HANLON – PUBLISHED 04 MAY 2014 02:30 AM

Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me. That was the standard Sinn Fein response last week to the arrest of Gerry Adams for questioning about the murder, 40 years ago, of a widowed mother of 10.


Regardless of one's political persuasion, it seemed an inadequate reaction, to say the least. As Newstalk's political editor Shane Coleman pointed out on Thursday's Right Hook, the arrest of a major political leader in Ireland in such circumstances is both dramatic and unprecedented.

Have we really grown so blase about Ireland's recent dark history that we can immediately shrug off this development and move on? Were our sensibilities really so dulled by the Troubles that we fail to even notice, let alone process, how strange the country has become?

Of course Sinn Fein was always going to allege that the timing of the arrest of Gerry Adams during an election campaign was "politically motivated". What else could it say?

History has slung this albatross called Adams around its neck. Sinn Fein has to explain its presence as best it can. Even Mary Lou McDonald, used to making a silk purse out of a sow's ear in interviews, was struggling to present this latest development in a positive light; but then she was caught in a dilemma of her own making.

When Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin recently went public with serious allegations about the internal cover-up of rape and sexual abuse by members of the republican movement, Sinn Fein's response was unequivocal: bring these matters to the proper authorities. Let the police decide what to do about them. In the meantime, shut up.

Suddenly, the narrative of trusting the police to be the final arbiters of what should and should not be prosecuted is replaced with a different line. Now, apparently, Sinn Fein reserves the right to the final say about which crimes should be investigated.

Mary Lou mutters darkly about "shadowy forces" within unionism and the Northern security services; the North's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness channels his inner Obi Wan Kenobi and blames the "dark side".

Niall O'Dowd at Irish Central even claims that Adams had been targeted for arrest because Sinn Fein "present a threat to the established order" and the establishment will "do anything to bring them down" and stop them ... well, what? Taking some seats in the European Parliament? That's hardly going to bring down the system from within. Form a coalition after the next election with Fine Gael or Fianna Fail? Ask the PDs, Greens and Labour if that's such a glittering prize. In fact, it could be said the best way to stop Sinn Fein's rise is to get it into coalition as soon as possible, as annihilation tends to follow swiftly for the junior partner in any such deal.

There are undoubtedly elements within unionism and the security forces who would love nothing better than to claim Gerry Adams's scalp, but it's hard to make a credible case that his arrest is part of some grand masterplan to thwart the rise of Sinn Fein when there is just as much chance that it would have the opposite effect.

The forces of which Mary Lou and McGuinness talk may be shadowy, but they're not stupid. Sinn Fein is simply discovering, once again, the perils of having a party leader who remains unable to meld the two parts of his character – tribal leader and bridge-building peacemaker – into a convincing whole. It's always going to be a hostage to fortune whilst Adams is around, and, even if this latest drama does blow over, it's only a matter of time before the next crisis comes along.

Sinn Fein doesn't own the past. Other people have memories and tales to tell too. They can't all be silenced. The attempt to uncover the truth about Jean McConville's fate is not an isolated conspiracy, but part of an ongoing effort to make sense of the past.

Speaking last week, Mary Lou almost made it sound as if Gerry was going North to answer questions about the abduction, murder and secret burial of this woman out of the goodness of his heart.

He had told the police "he was available", she said, and they had "taken him up" on his offer. He "voluntarily wished to speak to them".

She made being arrested sound almost jolly, like arranging drinkies with friends. Are you free on Thursday, old bean? You are? How splendid. See you there.

It may be to Sinn Fein's advantage to present what happened last week as proof that there is political interference in policing to damage the party's inexorable rise to power; but the real truth is that what political interference there has been in policing in the North in recent years has all been to Sinn Fein's advantage.

Take the recent revelations about the way the scheme to grant effective amnesties to so-called On The Runs was operated. Sinn Fein did not appear to have any objection to political policing when it was IRA bombers who were being granted Get Out Of Jail Free cards as a result. Sinn Fein representatives in the North openly admitted to acting as secret conduits who both sought, and then delivered, private agreements to known terrorists from the British government over the heads of the Northern assembly and the police and courts.

Last month, the Westminster committee dealing with the ongoing controversy over the On The Run scheme even heard claims from a former PSNI officer that Tony Blair, as prime minister, personally intervened in an effort to have two IRA gunmen released from custody. According to former detective chief superintendent Norman Baxter, Blair did so after receiving a call from the Sinn Fein leader asking him to intervene.

The former policeman's credentials have been called into question by Sinn Fein, and there is no way of confirming that Adams or Blair did make any such calls. But in their own way, the slew of similar allegations about political interference in policing in order to "save" the peace process are much more significant than the Sinn Fein leader's arrest last week. That can ultimately be explained away as dirty tricks. It's much harder to justify why Sinn Fein continues to believe the law of the land should apply equally to all ... except when it's republicans who are in the frame.

Imagine for a moment that senior figures within Fine Gael or Fianna Fail had been on the telephone last week secretly putting pressure on Judge Martin Nolan not to imprison Anglo executives Pat Whelan and Willie McAteer. We'd now be in the middle of a political crisis that would make the recent scandals around the Garda Siochana look like a walk in the park by comparison. Yet when Sinn Fein effectively does the same for On The Run terrorists, no one bats an eyelid.

The nonchalance in some quarters about the arrest of Gerry Adams is just more evidence that we don't know what normal political life looks like anymore.

Sunday Independent

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 09:44:59 AM
Surely this isn't right :


Gerry Adams is being questioned for up to 17 hours a day by detectives investigating the murder of Jean McConville, a source close to him says.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on May 04, 2014, 10:02:09 AM
Why should we believe this source when we are asked not to believe other sources who say he was involved?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 04, 2014, 10:23:55 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 09:44:59 AM
Surely this isn't right :


Gerry Adams is being questioned for up to 17 hours a day by detectives investigating the murder of Jean McConville, a source close to him says.
Read Eamonn Mallie on Twitter for an account of what's happening in Antrim police station.

Hysterical reaction from SF and its supporters. Had PSNI chosen not to interview Adams in the light of the Boston tapes, the Price interview, statements from various former comrades of Adams - that would've been political policing. The arrest of Adams won't have any impact on voters - the immaturity of SF's response to his arrest will. The good will they'd built up over the way they'd handled the invitation to go to Buckingham Palace, the superb performance by the Lord Mayor of Belfast this year, all that has been blown away by the spit-the-dummy-out response of McGuinness et al.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 04, 2014, 10:57:02 AM
He'll be fine! When he gets out a few days off and back to business as usual.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 11:46:03 AM
Peter Robinson said the PSNI must not be subjected to "republican bullyboy tactics".

In a statement on Sunday, Mr Robinson, the Democratic Unionist Party leader said: "The protest action taken by Sinn Féin is unacceptable in any democratic country operating under the rule of law.

"The publicly conveyed threat to the PSNI delivered by the highest levels of Sinn Féin that they will reassess their attitude to policing if Gerry Adams is charged is a despicable, thuggish attempt to blackmail the PSNI.

"The threat now means that ordinary decent citizens will conclude that the PSNI and the PPS have succumbed to a crude and overt political threat if Adams is not charged.

"The PSNI must not be the subject of republican bullyboy tactics.

"They must be completely free to follow any and all evidence regardless of where it takes them and to decide free of political considerations whether suspects will be charged or not."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 04, 2014, 12:28:16 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 11:46:03 AM
Peter Robinson said the PSNI must not be subjected to "republican bullyboy tactics".

In a statement on Sunday, Mr Robinson, the Democratic Unionist Party leader said: "The protest action taken by Sinn Féin is unacceptable in any democratic country operating under the rule of law.

"The publicly conveyed threat to the PSNI delivered by the highest levels of Sinn Féin that they will reassess their attitude to policing if Gerry Adams is charged is a despicable, thuggish attempt to blackmail the PSNI.

"The threat now means that ordinary decent citizens will conclude that the PSNI and the PPS have succumbed to a crude and overt political threat if Adams is not charged.

"The PSNI must not be the subject of republican bullyboy tactics.

"They must be completely free to follow any and all evidence regardless of where it takes them and to decide free of political considerations whether suspects will be charged or not."

This position by Robinson could only be seen as reasonable if he was consistent and, for example, said the same thing about the fleg protests.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 04, 2014, 01:24:59 PM
Not a Robinson fan - but he had to comment,given his position- and what else could he say?
If he did come out in support of Adams he'd be accused of undermining the police force.

Muppet is right though - it's inconsistent of him but that's politics I suppose - esp unionist politics!

I sniggered when I read his comments though thinking that the shoe is on the other foot as it used to be republicans complaining of unionist and police bully boy tactics!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: our_fella on May 04, 2014, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 09:44:59 AM
Surely this isn't right :


Gerry Adams is being questioned for up to 17 hours a day by detectives investigating the murder of Jean McConville, a source close to him says.

Whats wrong with it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 04, 2014, 03:14:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 04, 2014, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Sdlp view -

SDLP West Belfast MLA Alex Attwood criticised Sinn Féin for staging the rally and said people must stand in support of the McConville family.
He said some people were "on the wrong side of where the great majority of people are".
"It begs many, many questions that a rally was held this afternoon in the shadow of Divis, from the very place where Jean McConville was taken and then murdered," added Mr Attwood.
He continued,"How can any organisation think it appropriate to convene a rally around the arrest of a person in relation to Jean McConville's murder yards from where she was abducted?"
Mr Attwood said the rally was "another example of Sinn Féin displaying fundamentally bad judgment, at the very least, around the recent arrest".
"Martin McGuinness has raised questions about support for policing. The new beginning to policing was hard won and no one should casually undermine it.
"The comments of Mr McGuinness are a challenge to Irish democracy, that somehow one person is bigger than peace or politics. As before, Sinn Féin are on the wrong side of the people of Ireland. "
Have no time for Attwood at all but would agree with most of this. The placards they were holding earlier saying "Defend The Peace Process" were strange in my opinion. Do SF mean that people potentially involved in ordering these murders must be protected at all costs? The Disappeared are amongst the most divisive cases of the Troubles and aren't going away. Gerry getting sweated for a few days won't undermine the peace process, nor would him getting put inside if it is proved that he was involved. The detectives questioning him are probably sweating more than him!
Atwood is feeble minded, appeals to the feeble minded and that statement is a good example of that.

The disappeared are part of the casualties of war, not a separate issue. Even if it was verifiable fact that there was a unit in the IRA in the early 1970's dedicated to sniffing out informers who were infecting the community, that's where it should lay re criminal prosecution, regardless if that unit got it wrong or not. It was a republican military reaction to reduce the effect of the  British/RUC/Unionist strategy of fomenting the dastardly cult of the informer.

So yes the attitude behind the Adams arrest is perceived to be counteracting the peace process. It's an attitude which does not recognise the GFA for what it was, a negotiated settlement between all sides, recognising grievances with some possible political framework for the future. It's an attitude which still seeks to criminalise republicans for carrying out armed resistance to their Orange statelet, in effect it's anti-peace process.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on May 04, 2014, 04:24:55 PM
Gerry to walk free this evening and file sent to PPS.

This whole episode will, in my opinion, only serve to strengthen Gerry and SF's position in the future. He'll have no bother answering difficult questions re his IRA links in the Dail from now on.

Could this have been one grand scheme to allow Gerry to exit the scene with his name (in some way) clean, allow an unencumbered person (Mary-lou et al) to take the lead role, there by ensuring the best chance of peace possible going forward?

All this resting, of course,  on the PPS having no case to follow up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 04, 2014, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 04, 2014, 04:24:55 PM
Gerry to walk free this evening and file sent to PPS.

This whole episode will, in my opinion, only serve to strengthen Gerry and SF's position in the future. He'll have no bother answering difficult questions re his IRA links in the Dail from now on.

Could this have been one grand scheme to allow Gerry to exit the scene with his name (in some way) clean, allow an unencumbered person (Mary-lou et al) to take the lead role, there by ensuring the best chance of peace possible going forward?

All this resting, of course,  on the PPS having no case to follow up.

Some of the pro-Gerry stuff in this thread has been deluded in the extreme.

This only damages Adams and Sinn Fein. They've made themselves look like a bunch of babies on top of their leader being linked to a murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on May 04, 2014, 05:03:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 04, 2014, 03:14:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 04, 2014, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Sdlp view -

SDLP West Belfast MLA Alex Attwood criticised Sinn Féin for staging the rally and said people must stand in support of the McConville family.
He said some people were "on the wrong side of where the great majority of people are".
"It begs many, many questions that a rally was held this afternoon in the shadow of Divis, from the very place where Jean McConville was taken and then murdered," added Mr Attwood.
He continued,"How can any organisation think it appropriate to convene a rally around the arrest of a person in relation to Jean McConville's murder yards from where she was abducted?"
Mr Attwood said the rally was "another example of Sinn Féin displaying fundamentally bad judgment, at the very least, around the recent arrest".
"Martin McGuinness has raised questions about support for policing. The new beginning to policing was hard won and no one should casually undermine it.
"The comments of Mr McGuinness are a challenge to Irish democracy, that somehow one person is bigger than peace or politics. As before, Sinn Féin are on the wrong side of the people of Ireland. "
Have no time for Attwood at all but would agree with most of this. The placards they were holding earlier saying "Defend The Peace Process" were strange in my opinion. Do SF mean that people potentially involved in ordering these murders must be protected at all costs? The Disappeared are amongst the most divisive cases of the Troubles and aren't going away. Gerry getting sweated for a few days won't undermine the peace process, nor would him getting put inside if it is proved that he was involved. The detectives questioning him are probably sweating more than him!
Atwood is feeble minded, appeals to the feeble minded and that statement is a good example of that.

The disappeared are part of the casualties of war.

So dragging a mother from her 10 children and executing her was fair game, as long as it achieved a United Ireland (well thank god it did). Such a f**king statement, by your warped thinking Bloody Sunday was simply another act of war and the 3 unarmed men killed in Gibraltar were just a few dead soldiers. Should we just forget casualties like Finucane and Patsy Kelly, tell the Brits "no justice is needed because we were at war, it was a different time and lets not spill the Stormont gravy train".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 04, 2014, 05:09:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 04, 2014, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 04, 2014, 04:24:55 PM
Gerry to walk free this evening and file sent to PPS.

This whole episode will, in my opinion, only serve to strengthen Gerry and SF's position in the future. He'll have no bother answering difficult questions re his IRA links in the Dail from now on.

Could this have been one grand scheme to allow Gerry to exit the scene with his name (in some way) clean, allow an unencumbered person (Mary-lou et al) to take the lead role, there by ensuring the best chance of peace possible going forward?

All this resting, of course,  on the PPS having no case to follow up.

Some of the pro-Gerry stuff in this thread has been deluded in the extreme.

This only damages Adams and Sinn Fein. They've made themselves look like a bunch of babies on top of their leader being linked to a murder.
Should he be charged with IRA membership,  do you think it will make any difference? Outside of the media and the easily led (who's position on Gerry won't change), would anybody else give a rats ass?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 04, 2014, 05:10:53 PM
Adams is to be released without charge, later this evening, with a file sent to the prosecution services according to latest media reports.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 04, 2014, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on May 04, 2014, 05:10:53 PM
Adams is to be released without charge, later this evening, with a file sent to the prosecution services according to latest media reports.

Is that it?!?!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 06:23:50 PM
Nicely choreographed.

Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams has been released from custody over a 1972 murder and a file will be sent to the Public Prosecution Service, police have confirmed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on May 04, 2014, 06:42:28 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png.html)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 04, 2014, 07:19:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 04, 2014, 05:03:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 04, 2014, 03:14:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 04, 2014, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2014, 12:12:16 AM
Sdlp view -

SDLP West Belfast MLA Alex Attwood criticised Sinn Féin for staging the rally and said people must stand in support of the McConville family.
He said some people were "on the wrong side of where the great majority of people are".
"It begs many, many questions that a rally was held this afternoon in the shadow of Divis, from the very place where Jean McConville was taken and then murdered," added Mr Attwood.
He continued,"How can any organisation think it appropriate to convene a rally around the arrest of a person in relation to Jean McConville's murder yards from where she was abducted?"
Mr Attwood said the rally was "another example of Sinn Féin displaying fundamentally bad judgment, at the very least, around the recent arrest".
"Martin McGuinness has raised questions about support for policing. The new beginning to policing was hard won and no one should casually undermine it.
"The comments of Mr McGuinness are a challenge to Irish democracy, that somehow one person is bigger than peace or politics. As before, Sinn Féin are on the wrong side of the people of Ireland. "
Have no time for Attwood at all but would agree with most of this. The placards they were holding earlier saying "Defend The Peace Process" were strange in my opinion. Do SF mean that people potentially involved in ordering these murders must be protected at all costs? The Disappeared are amongst the most divisive cases of the Troubles and aren't going away. Gerry getting sweated for a few days won't undermine the peace process, nor would him getting put inside if it is proved that he was involved. The detectives questioning him are probably sweating more than him!
Atwood is feeble minded, appeals to the feeble minded and that statement is a good example of that.

The disappeared are part of the casualties of war.

So dragging a mother from her 10 children and executing her was fair game, as long as it achieved a United Ireland (well thank god it did). Such a f**king statement, by your warped thinking Bloody Sunday was simply another act of war and the 3 unarmed men killed in Gibraltar were just a few dead soldiers. Should we just forget casualties like Finucane and Patsy Kelly, tell the Brits "no justice is needed because we were at war, it was a different time and lets not spill the Stormont gravy train".
You don't do too well at extrapolation trileacman. But possibly you trying to be the GAAboard version of Willie Frazer, then it might make sense, well perhaps that would give you purpose, not sense.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 04, 2014, 07:29:08 PM
(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10155485_244152872456338_4240913779562455584_n.jpg)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 04, 2014, 07:31:16 PM
Gerry has left the building.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Line Ball on May 04, 2014, 07:36:22 PM
If Catholics had pulled a stunt like that in Antrim this evening they would have been pulled and kicked off the road.  Pathetic
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 04, 2014, 08:07:31 PM
That was some lynch mob outside the barracks, fully clad in loving regalia.

Probably will be served tea and biscuits at 9pm before being gently told to move along.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Line Ball on May 04, 2014, 08:15:38 PM
Lynch mob or tea makers, it was an unlawful protest and would have been dealt with differently if it had been Catholics doing it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SHEEDY on May 04, 2014, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 04, 2014, 06:42:28 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png.html)
Gerry got his letter then!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on May 04, 2014, 09:00:56 PM
Very measured speech by Adams, albeit at odds with some of the other comment from SF members in the last few days.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 04, 2014, 09:19:05 PM
Another good election broadcast, should be worth a few more votes.The Dark side will never learn, they cannot stop the SF juggernaut,
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 04, 2014, 09:48:50 PM
That loyalist  lynch mob outside the barracks is just a normal day to day event in Northern Ireland?
Hardly worth passing a comment about?
All that's needed  to complete the picture is Gregory Peck, his shotgun and white hoods over the heads over the baying mob.

And people comment about republicans' sense of victimhood ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Line Ball on May 04, 2014, 10:01:54 PM
It wasn't a lynch mob.

It was a police station not a barracks.

It wasn't a normal day to day event in the North of Ireland.

Why the question mark?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 04, 2014, 10:02:49 PM
So does this mean the next time Gerry asks Enda a question about welfare reform or something during leaders questions, that Enda might have to actually answer the question now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on May 04, 2014, 10:05:15 PM
Its a pity our James retired from politics, it would have been nice to hear what he would say about the whole thing.
I see ole Willie isnt happy. They wouldnt let him in to bring tae & a heal of a loaf to Gerry.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on May 04, 2014, 10:08:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 04, 2014, 10:02:49 PM
So does this mean the next time Gerry asks Enda a question about welfare reform or something during leaders questions, that Enda might have to actually answer the question now?

read in the papers today how he made fun of a question asked by Ming on something about corruption in the drugs squad. Enda is no leader, the sooner people in the south get a grip the better
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 04, 2014, 10:11:28 PM
I'd say thon crowd outside Antrim were concerned about the McConvilles alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: babarino on May 04, 2014, 10:11:37 PM
Quote from: Line Ball on May 04, 2014, 10:01:54 PM
It wasn't a lynch mob...

Would you have been happy to stroll out to call a cab?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: babarino on May 04, 2014, 10:16:03 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 04, 2014, 10:02:49 PM
So does this mean the next time Gerry asks Enda a question about welfare reform or something during leaders questions, that Enda might have to actually answer the question now?
+

Do you dare question the integrity of An Taoiseach? As if he'd use the the McConvilles for his own interests. Maybe Enda has access to information we don't know about.  :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on May 04, 2014, 10:19:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 04, 2014, 06:42:28 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png.html)

Very good. Were you saving that one ye boy ye?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on May 04, 2014, 10:29:45 PM
Ah Gerry sneaked out the back door with the old decoy routine and the dumb feckers fell for it. They really haven't the first ounce.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 04, 2014, 10:30:37 PM
They did so they did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 04, 2014, 10:32:15 PM
in all honestly any idiot could have figured he go out the back, shows how dumb these flag protesters are, but there no cameras really out the back and they rather play up to the cameras
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 04, 2014, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 04, 2014, 10:19:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 04, 2014, 06:42:28 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png.html)

Very good. Were you saving that one ye boy ye?

go on yah boy yah!!! 8) 8)

come on gimp kenny answer the fukn question  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on May 04, 2014, 10:40:24 PM
If there were no cameras out the back it must have been a reconstruction I watched on the news :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 04, 2014, 10:51:53 PM
HOLD ON ONE GODDAMN SECOND HERE.

Hardy = Willie Frazer? - - https://www.facebook.com/williamfrazerni
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 04, 2014, 11:03:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 04, 2014, 10:02:49 PM
So does this mean the next time Gerry asks Enda a question about welfare reform or something during leaders questions, that Enda might have to actually answer the question now?

You'd imagine so, and Brian Hayes said something last week or the week before about Adams having to answer questions... Put it this way I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 04, 2014, 11:20:09 PM
Quote from: babarino on May 04, 2014, 10:11:37 PM
Quote from: Line Ball on May 04, 2014, 10:01:54 PM
It wasn't a lynch mob...

Would you have been happy to stroll out to call a cab?
How about, if you were the spitting image of Gerry Adams and strolled out the front door, how long would you last?
I suppose you could debate with them the nuances of whether to call them a lynch mob, a baying mob of just an angry mob, just before getting pelted with an avalanche of their mobile phones.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 04, 2014, 11:39:55 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 04, 2014, 11:20:09 PM
Quote from: babarino on May 04, 2014, 10:11:37 PM
Quote from: Line Ball on May 04, 2014, 10:01:54 PM
It wasn't a lynch mob...

Would you have been happy to stroll out to call a cab?
How about, if you were the spitting image of Gerry Adams and strolled out the front door, how long would you last?
I suppose you could debate with them the nuances of whether to call them a lynch mob, a baying mob of just an angry mob, just before getting pelted with an avalanche of their mobile phones.

A sash mob?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 04, 2014, 11:53:35 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 04, 2014, 09:00:56 PM
Very measured speech by Adams, albeit at odds with some of the other comment from SF members in the last few days.
Yep, highlighting the fact that Marty in particular lost the run of himself in recent days. He's done them some damage, no doubt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:06:24 AM
If anyone thinks headlines like "I am innocent of murder" play well you are swallowing too much Tullamore Dew. I don't know how 'measured' could be applied to such a stunning situation. Ould Gery still moaned about being treated poorly as if being implicated in a murder didn't warrant the most thorough investigation possible.

The hypocrisy of Sinn Fein is what is being broadcast to Ireland as a whole and Enda, Martin and everyone else in the Dail will have had a very happy weekend.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 05, 2014, 12:07:51 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 04, 2014, 11:53:35 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 04, 2014, 09:00:56 PM
Very measured speech by Adams, albeit at odds with some of the other comment from SF members in the last few days.
Yep, highlighting the fact that Marty in particular lost the run of himself in recent days. He's done them some damage, no doubt.

I'd say quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:06:24 AM
If anyone thinks headlines like "I am innocent of murder" play well you are swallowing too much Tullamore Dew. I don't know how 'measured' could be applied to such a stunning situation. Ould Gery still moaned about being treated poorly as if being implicated in a murder didn't warrant the most thorough investigation possible.

The hypocrisy of Sinn Fein is what is being broadcast to Ireland as a whole and Enda, Martin and everyone else in the Dail will have had a very happy weekend.
The only people who will give a rats ass are people like yourself who didn't like him before the arrest anyway. And I don't think the headlines well be "I am innocent of murder". More likely to be "Adams released without charge". But of course if you have information,  I'm sure you'll be passing it on to the cops?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on May 05, 2014, 12:16:08 AM
The media, local and international, tonight had a choice between broadcasting a conference from either Adams and Sinn Féin or the McConville family. Despite the fact that they had claimed that we should remember Jean McConville and her family's pain, constantly reminding us of their grief at various stages of this process, they instead chose to go en masse to the Balmoral Hotel and broadcast the Adams conference.

This was never, ever about the victims of the conflict, never about the McConville family. It was the same circus that happened whenever Liam Adams' case went to trial, and the fact that the RUC had tried to turn his daughter into an informant against her uncle rather than take her claims seriously was brushed under the carpet. This was, like that circus, always about journalistic exposure and a media determined to take down Gerry Adams. Once again, they failed.

I think the media should be absolutely ashamed of the way that they have used the clear victims of both cases with regards Adams in recent years. Once Adams' involvement was minimalised in both cases, their interest in the families affected seemed to dry up very, very quickly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 05, 2014, 12:20:03 AM
It was never about the McConvilles for most. That's politics and media.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:06:24 AM
If anyone thinks headlines like "I am innocent of murder" play well you are swallowing too much Tullamore Dew. I don't know how 'measured' could be applied to such a stunning situation. Ould Gery still moaned about being treated poorly as if being implicated in a murder didn't warrant the most thorough investigation possible.

The hypocrisy of Sinn Fein is what is being broadcast to Ireland as a whole and Enda, Martin and everyone else in the Dail will have had a very happy weekend.
The only people who will give a rats ass are people like yourself who didn't like him before the arrest anyway. And I don't think the headlines well be "I am innocent of murder". More likely to be "Adams released without charge". But of course if you have information,  I'm sure you'll be passing it on to the cops?

If you don't think the floating voters - in other words the very voters who were buoying Sinn Fein's record poll ratings a week ago - don't care then you're a fantasist.

I know he's 'your guy' (as a SF supporter) but the fact is he isn't anyone else's and they have no great attachment to him or his party and things as public as a four day arrest over a murder of a woman are certainly going to effect the party's perception outside of die-hard Republican communities. Far lesser issues sunk Sean Gallagher.

It feels like some SF supporters (and the big hats themselves) are trying to play a PR game when there really is no way for this not to be damaging.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 12:50:29 AM
I listened to Martin Mc Guiness today on RTE lunch time news and Richard Crowley started to ask Marty a lot of hard questions. Mc Guinness is usually excellent at defending SF policy. But on the subject of Gerry and Jean Mc Conville and Gerry's persistence with his denial of ever being an IRA member, Martin was wobbling like I've never heard him wobble before. And he knew it himself and said to Crowley that he wasn't for playing Crowley's silly little games.

SF will do better under Pearse or Mary Lou or whoever. Time to let Gerry go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 05, 2014, 01:01:18 AM
Sounds similar to the clarion calls from the new wave, brand Arsenal fans, to get rid of Wenger.
Will Adams last longer than Wenger?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 01:09:26 AM
33 taped interviews is a lot. They seem to have put him through the wringer. Showing him old photos - they must have been reminiscing.

The Sinn Féin leader said police had conducted 33 taped interviews and detectives had presented him with old photographs of himself and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness and with interviews conducted by people who were "enemies of the peace process".

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on May 05, 2014, 01:24:07 AM
Quote from: Orior on May 04, 2014, 10:19:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 04, 2014, 06:42:28 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/gerryadams_zpsed6b0733.png.html)

Very good. Were you saving that one ye boy ye?

Well sussed. I was, ye boy ye. How could I resist?

Quote from: ONeill on May 04, 2014, 10:51:53 PM
HOLD ON ONE GODDAMN SECOND HERE.

Hardy = Willie Frazer? - - https://www.facebook.com/williamfrazerni (https://www.facebook.com/williamfrazerni)

Quote from: SHEEDY on May 04, 2014, 08:49:24 PM
Gerry got his letter then!

Wullie reads gaaboard!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:48:32 AM
"Peace process" seems to be a by-word for being above prosecution to top level Shinners. C'mon now lads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 05, 2014, 09:45:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:06:24 AM
If anyone thinks headlines like "I am innocent of murder" play well you are swallowing too much Tullamore Dew. I don't know how 'measured' could be applied to such a stunning situation. Ould Gery still moaned about being treated poorly as if being implicated in a murder didn't warrant the most thorough investigation possible.

The hypocrisy of Sinn Fein is what is being broadcast to Ireland as a whole and Enda, Martin and everyone else in the Dail will have had a very happy weekend.
The only people who will give a rats ass are people like yourself who didn't like him before the arrest anyway. And I don't think the headlines well be "I am innocent of murder". More likely to be "Adams released without charge". But of course if you have information,  I'm sure you'll be passing it on to the cops?

If you don't think the floating voters - in other words the very voters who were buoying Sinn Fein's record poll ratings a week ago - don't care then you're a fantasist.

I know he's 'your guy' (as a SF supporter) but the fact is he isn't anyone else's and they have no great attachment to him or his party and things as public as a four day arrest over a murder of a woman are certainly going to effect the party's perception outside of die-hard Republican communities. Far lesser issues sunk Sean Gallagher.

It feels like some SF supporters (and the big hats themselves) are trying to play a PR game when there really is no way for this not to be damaging.
I've never been a SF voter in my life, but I was thinking of giving my first preference to them this time around, at least in the council elections. The SDLP is finished as a political party and I've been impressed by the way SF have handled themselves in recent months and by the performance of individual Shinners. Also, the only candidate who has bothered his arse to knock our door and actually talk to us has been the Shinner. This past week has changed my mind. The sheer petulance SF has displayed, the veiled threats, the fall back to street politics and the victim mentality - it's reminded me why I've never voted SF in the past.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 09:50:40 AM
This is the article and the court appearance of Ivor Bell, 77 year old charged was with aiding and averting the murder of Jean Mc Conville. I'm wondering why they didn't release this old man and send a file to the DPP, the same as they did in Gerry's case ?.

The court was told today that one of the Boston interviewees, given the title Z, spoke about the circumstances surrounding the decision to abduct her.

Based on jigsaw identification, prosecution counsel David Russell alleged that this person was Bell.

It was claimed that he detailed a meeting in the kitchen of a house in the Falls Road area with a man seeking advice about Mrs McConville.

He was told about her alleged activities as an informer and his advice sought, according to the prosecution.

The alleged consultation took place while she was still alive, Mr Justice Weir was told.

Mr Russell claimed: "He (Bell) indicates that he told the other person: "Well, she's a tout and the fact she's a woman shouldn't save her."

According to the transcripts he may have taken a different view if he had known she had ten children and no husband, the court heard.

However, interviewee Z allegedly confirmed he would back up whatever was decided.

It was claimed that he said he had no problem with shooting touts but disagreed with burying Mrs McConville.

He allegedly stated that informers' bodies should instead be left openly as an example to others.

The 37-year-old victim was ultimately shot in the back of the head and buried 50 miles from her home.

She became one of the so-called Disappeared, and it was not until August 2003 that her remains were eventually found on Shelling Hill beach in Co Louth.

Setting out the charge against Bell, Mr Russell said: "The prosecution case is he counselled those who had her in captivity and in doing so he encouraged her murder."

The accused, from Ramoan Gardens in the Andersonstown district of west Belfast, was arrested last week.

He denies any role in the abduction or murder of Mrs McConville.

The pensioner, who has serious health problems, told detectives he did not believe he was in Belfast around the time she vanished.

Opposing bail due to fears he may flee, the prosecution claimed he had used an alias to travel to Madrid during the 1980s.

Asked how long it could take before the case gets to trial, Mr Russell accepted it was unlikely to be "fast-tracked".

He added: "It's clear that there are other inquiries being made, and I don't wish to put it any higher than that."

As relatives of both the accused and victim packed the court, defence counsel Barry Macdonald QC said issues arising from the Boston College transcripts would be dealt with at trial.

He rejected claims that his client may flee if released, pointing to his medical problems.

Granting bail on two sureties of £10,000 each, Mr Justice Weir ordered one to be lodged in cash along with the title deeds to a house.

Bell must report to police three times a week, surrender his passport and give 48 hours notice if he plans to travel outside Northern Ireland.

The judge asked him: "If I release you on bail do you promise me you will keep to your bail conditions?"
Bell, appearing via a video-link with Maghaberry Prison, replied: "You have my word, my lord."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on May 05, 2014, 09:51:37 AM
Do candidates actually knock on doors now ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 05, 2014, 10:00:58 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2014, 09:51:37 AM
Do candidates actually knock on doors now ?

Yes,have 6 candidates in North Belfast and 3 in Newtownabbey and they are out on average 4/5 nights a week knocking doors a d have been since selection
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 10:06:12 AM
The Orange Order want Gerry dead. Surely the Reverend might also get a wee spin to the Antrim suite about this ?

The grand chaplain of the Orange Order has declined to be interviewed after he made public remarks about a "memorial" to the Sinn Féin leader, Gerry Adams.

The Reverend Mervyn Gibson told a Belfast rally: "I see they've painted a new mural to him on the Falls Road. Sadly, it's not a memorial mural."

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 10:20:25 AM
The MC Cain oven chips would have been nice when he got home.

Asked what it was like spending the time in custody he said: "It was okay." He added that over the four nights and five days police did 33 taped interviews with him. He said the food was "uneatable".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:32:46 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 10:06:12 AM
The Orange Order want Gerry dead. Surely the Reverend might also get a wee spin to the Antrim suite about this ?

The grand chaplain of the Orange Order has declined to be interviewed after he made public remarks about a "memorial" to the Sinn Féin leader, Gerry Adams.

The Reverend Mervyn Gibson told a Belfast rally: "I see they've painted a new mural to him on the Falls Road. Sadly, it's not a memorial mural."

That's the Rev Mervyn Gibson former member of the RUC (member of the dark side)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 10:35:46 AM
I'm not having go at SF here but here's the definition of a cabal which is the much used word to describe the dark side of the Police :

Cabal

a small group of secret plotters, as against a government or person in authority.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 11:30:39 AM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/04/article-2620025-1D92EF9600000578-906_634x406.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:26:38 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 05, 2014, 09:45:29 AM
I've never been a SF voter in my life, but I was thinking of giving my first preference to them this time around...This past week has changed my mind.

(http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.13870769.0569/sticker,375x360.png)
(http://www.donttreadonusblog.com/uploads/1/7/7/0/17701085/811820405.jpg?628)

Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 13, 2013, 05:08:51 PM
SF and the IRA are a bunch of w**kers. Most of the island believes that to be the case.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 12, 2013, 08:27:32 PM
Irishmen and women will never allow republicans to take ownership of this country. The sight of Kelly walking down the road with a bunch of clowns dressed in dark sunglasses and berets, was a reminder of just why the man is unfit to run a bath, never mind a country. One day northern unionists will cotton on to the fact that the best way of sidelining w**kers like Adams and Kelly is to have an all Ireland parliament based in Dublin.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 04, 2013, 07:13:19 PM
What I find most sickening is that this arch bigot is being facilitated in his efforts to reintroduce gerrymandering in a different guise by the cooperation of Sinn Fein.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 11, 2010, 10:21:37 PM
Why Sinn Fein Are A Bunch of Hypocrites

1. Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, SF recognised and signed up to what they had previously derided as the 'unionist veto'. It was rebranded as the consent of the people of the north to spare their blushes. As an SDLP supporter I've always supported the consent principle. Republicans used to brand people like me as subservient for doing so.

2. Under the same Agreement, SF agreed to enter the Stormont Assembly and take part in the administration of British Rule in Ireland. Indeed, their burning ambition now is to hold the post of First Minister in this Assembly. As an SDLP supporter I've no problem with a local Assembly. However, republicans used to brand people like me as west Brits for holding such a view.

3. SF supported the right of every Irishman and woman to take up arms against the British 'occupation'. 'Ireland unfree will never be at peace', etc etc. SF now consider the so called republicans dissidents as 'traitors' to Ireland for doing so. Only Gerry and Marty, apparently, have the right to declare war.

4. SF preach equality for all and the rights of women, yet they deny justice to women who've been abused or raped by leading republicans.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 04, 2013, 06:23:11 PM
It's about the Shinners trying to rewrite history by seeking to normalise the deeds and atrocities carried out by the IRA.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 04, 2011, 06:00:35 PM
republicans are trying to rewrite history and steal the laurels that rightly belong to others. Shameful, but typical.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 07, 2010, 07:42:53 PM
I'm only interested in impartial sources, not propaganda crap from the Shinners.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 17, 2011, 10:36:38 PM
Let's find out exactly what part Gerry Adams played in the abduction and murder of a mother of 10.
(Questioned, and released without charge)

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 15, 2011, 10:21:33 PM
typical Shinner shite, to be honest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:06:24 AM
If anyone thinks headlines like "I am innocent of murder" play well you are swallowing too much Tullamore Dew. I don't know how 'measured' could be applied to such a stunning situation. Ould Gery still moaned about being treated poorly as if being implicated in a murder didn't warrant the most thorough investigation possible.

The hypocrisy of Sinn Fein is what is being broadcast to Ireland as a whole and Enda, Martin and everyone else in the Dail will have had a very happy weekend.
The only people who will give a rats ass are people like yourself who didn't like him before the arrest anyway. And I don't think the headlines well be "I am innocent of murder". More likely to be "Adams released without charge". But of course if you have information,  I'm sure you'll be passing it on to the cops?

If you don't think the floating voters - in other words the very voters who were buoying Sinn Fein's record poll ratings a week ago - don't care then you're a fantasist.

I know he's 'your guy' (as a SF supporter) but the fact is he isn't anyone else's and they have no great attachment to him or his party and things as public as a four day arrest over a murder of a woman are certainly going to effect the party's perception outside of die-hard Republican communities. Far lesser issues sunk Sean Gallagher.

It feels like some SF supporters (and the big hats themselves) are trying to play a PR game when there really is no way for this not to be damaging.
So floating voters may be turned off voting SF due to Adams being released without charge? Is it just the fact that there was accusations of a link between Adams and the IRA? Had they never heard such accusations like that before? The only people who will be put off by Adams getting released without charge are those like your good self and our bullshitting friend myles, who never liked SF/Adams anyway, and who probably spent the past five days peeing themselves in gleeful anticipation of Adams being charged.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 05, 2014, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:06:24 AM
If anyone thinks headlines like "I am innocent of murder" play well you are swallowing too much Tullamore Dew. I don't know how 'measured' could be applied to such a stunning situation. Ould Gery still moaned about being treated poorly as if being implicated in a murder didn't warrant the most thorough investigation possible.

The hypocrisy of Sinn Fein is what is being broadcast to Ireland as a whole and Enda, Martin and everyone else in the Dail will have had a very happy weekend.
The only people who will give a rats ass are people like yourself who didn't like him before the arrest anyway. And I don't think the headlines well be "I am innocent of murder". More likely to be "Adams released without charge". But of course if you have information,  I'm sure you'll be passing it on to the cops?

If you don't think the floating voters - in other words the very voters who were buoying Sinn Fein's record poll ratings a week ago - don't care then you're a fantasist.

I know he's 'your guy' (as a SF supporter) but the fact is he isn't anyone else's and they have no great attachment to him or his party and things as public as a four day arrest over a murder of a woman are certainly going to effect the party's perception outside of die-hard Republican communities. Far lesser issues sunk Sean Gallagher.

It feels like some SF supporters (and the big hats themselves) are trying to play a PR game when there really is no way for this not to be damaging.
So floating voters may be turned off voting SF due to Adams being released without charge? Is it just the fact that there was accusations of a link between Adams and the IRA? Had they never heard such accusations like that before? The only people who will be put off by Adams getting released without charge are those like your good self and our bullshitting friend myles, who never liked SF/Adams anyway, and who probably spent the past five days peeing themselves in gleeful anticipation of Adams being charged.
I said in an earlier post that SF wouldn't lose any floaters because Adams had been arrested (whether he was charged or not), but because of the reaction of the party to that arrest. McGuinness did a very good impression all week of a man peeing himself, to use your own phrase, and Mary Lou weighed in behind with a bit of panty-wetting just to show solidarity. I thought as a party they were showing signs of change in recent times, showing greater maturity and a willingness to take risks to reach out beyond their traditional support. The way they've thrown their toys out of the pram this week shows that not to be the case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 01:29:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 05, 2014, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:06:24 AM
If anyone thinks headlines like "I am innocent of murder" play well you are swallowing too much Tullamore Dew. I don't know how 'measured' could be applied to such a stunning situation. Ould Gery still moaned about being treated poorly as if being implicated in a murder didn't warrant the most thorough investigation possible.

The hypocrisy of Sinn Fein is what is being broadcast to Ireland as a whole and Enda, Martin and everyone else in the Dail will have had a very happy weekend.
The only people who will give a rats ass are people like yourself who didn't like him before the arrest anyway. And I don't think the headlines well be "I am innocent of murder". More likely to be "Adams released without charge". But of course if you have information,  I'm sure you'll be passing it on to the cops?

If you don't think the floating voters - in other words the very voters who were buoying Sinn Fein's record poll ratings a week ago - don't care then you're a fantasist.

I know he's 'your guy' (as a SF supporter) but the fact is he isn't anyone else's and they have no great attachment to him or his party and things as public as a four day arrest over a murder of a woman are certainly going to effect the party's perception outside of die-hard Republican communities. Far lesser issues sunk Sean Gallagher.

It feels like some SF supporters (and the big hats themselves) are trying to play a PR game when there really is no way for this not to be damaging.
So floating voters may be turned off voting SF due to Adams being released without charge? Is it just the fact that there was accusations of a link between Adams and the IRA? Had they never heard such accusations like that before? The only people who will be put off by Adams getting released without charge are those like your good self and our bullshitting friend myles, who never liked SF/Adams anyway, and who probably spent the past five days peeing themselves in gleeful anticipation of Adams being charged.
I said in an earlier post that SF wouldn't lose any floaters because Adams had been arrested (whether he was charged or not), but because of the reaction of the party to that arrest. McGuinness did a very good impression all week of a man peeing himself, to use your own phrase, and Mary Lou weighed in behind with a bit of panty-wetting just to show solidarity. I thought as a party they were showing signs of change in recent times, showing greater maturity and a willingness to take risks to reach out beyond their traditional support. The way they've thrown their toys out of the pram this week shows that not to be the case.

Bullshit, once again. So conveniently you were going to vote for them "until the events of this week", despite your repeated terming them as "w**kers" who are "unfit to run the country" across this board. Tell me, what was it that swung you from calling them
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 05, 2013, 07:37:27 PM
w**kers with a capital W.
in December, to the point of wanting to vote for them by May?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 05, 2014, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him. ;

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious

he was a member of the IRA.

>:( ;D >:( ;Dyour chums cannot prove that after 50 years but you say it is obvious, your are some dickhead :-[ :-[


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 05, 2014, 02:25:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!
LB, I wouldn't read anything into the that BBC report. There's some attempt to make it sound as if there were grounds to arrest and interrogate Adams for 4 days, on the basis of evidence that can never be substantiated in court, from people who were his sworn enemies.
That was never going to fly as you say but then they tag on the possibility of some other membership charge, which will never fly either.
They don't have anything after the 4 days, they never had anything to begin with, they never had enough for an arrest of a person who was willing to be interviewed, but are making it sound as if they have something and now all those somethings have to be considered by great prosecutorial legal minds. The great legal minds will have to consider the 30 year old picture of Adams in shades and beret marching down a Belfast street etc.  the result of 4 days interrogation - an open source picture , as evidence that our Gerry was in the IRA.
This is an embarrassing episode for them, a crude and blatant abuse of legal procedure for some political purpose but there appears to be plenty of scribes willing to give an aura of rationality to the whole affair  (in effect, to put some clothes on the emperor), downplay any rational scrutiny of just cause and mock criticism of the arrest.

Adams was in good form at the press conference. The only winners out of all this will be Sinn Fein, their opponents just keep shooting themselves in the feet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 02:31:23 PM
A few random musings on the events of the past week:

When deciding on a prosecution the PPS must not only take into account the likelihood of a conviction but also whether the prosecution is "necessary" and in the "public interest" (whatever that is).  It remains to be seen whether Pamela Atchison regards it as "necessary" to charge Adams with being a member of the IRA 30-40 years ago.  Bear in mind that last week Teresa Villiers decided that inquiries into Ballymurphy and La Mon would not be in the public interest.

Or could the PSNI be playing the "long game" here?  To link Adams to the McConville murder the PSNI must show he was a senior IRA member as he would have to have the authority to order the killing.  Were he convicted of IRA membership that link would be partially made and they could start again with the McConville case.

I wonder if this all might deter others from coming forward with info on the past?  Certainly I doubt whether we'll see another oral history project like the one in Boston College for a while!  I mean, how naïve were Moloney, McIntyre and Bew to say nothing of the interviewees!

If we're to believe the line of questioning that the PSNI took with Adams, I hope the Serious Crime Suite at Antrim has plenty of accommodation as it could be bursting at the seams in a few weeks!

It was interesting to hear Peter Hain on the radio declare that the "Adams Precedent" could lead to former members of the Security Forces being arrested.

And what of the elections?  SF will probably lose a few votes in the South but in the North this could galvanise SF supporters to get out and vote.  In 2009 Bairbre DeBrun polled just over 126,000 first preferences.  I had expected this to go down given that most people don't give a feck about the Euro elections, but it will be interesting to see how Martina Anderson performs.  She's a high profile candidate, more media friendly than DeBrun albeit she has a "military" past.  A strong showing by Anderson could spill over into increased Council representation as those elections take place at the same time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on May 05, 2014, 03:00:35 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.

That is bizarre. How can they chase people for IRA membership whenit has been disbanded?

Also British paramilitaries control parts of east Belfast, the police know who they are, but that is okay?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 05, 2014, 03:06:37 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 02:31:23 PM
A few random musings on the events of the past week:

When deciding on a prosecution the PPS must not only take into account the likelihood of a conviction but also whether the prosecution is "necessary" and in the "public interest" (whatever that is).  It remains to be seen whether Pamela Atchison regards it as "necessary" to charge Adams with being a member of the IRA 30-40 years ago.  Bear in mind that last week Teresa Villiers decided that inquiries into Ballymurphy and La Mon would not be in the public interest.

Or could the PSNI be playing the "long game" here?  To link Adams to the McConville murder the PSNI must show he was a senior IRA member as he would have to have the authority to order the killing.  Were he convicted of IRA membership that link would be partially made and they could start again with the McConville case.

I wonder if this all might deter others from coming forward with info on the past?  Certainly I doubt whether we'll see another oral history project like the one in Boston College for a while!  I mean, how naïve were Moloney, McIntyre and Bew to say nothing of the interviewees!

If we're to believe the line of questioning that the PSNI took with Adams, I hope the Serious Crime Suite at Antrim has plenty of accommodation as it could be bursting at the seams in a few weeks!

It was interesting to hear Peter Hain on the radio declare that the "Adams Precedent" could lead to former members of the Security Forces being arrested.

And what of the elections?  SF will probably lose a few votes in the South but in the North this could galvanise SF supporters to get out and vote.  In 2009 Bairbre DeBrun polled just over 126,000 first preferences.  I had expected this to go down given that most people don't give a feck about the Euro elections, but it will be interesting to see how Martina Anderson performs.  She's a high profile candidate, more media friendly than DeBrun albeit she has a "military" past.  A strong showing by Anderson could spill over into increased Council representation as they elections take place at the same time.

I have been on the canvas every night and can honesty say the response since Gerry was arrested has been unreal.People out there are far from stupid, can see this for what it is and they are angry.This will bring our vote out and expect the Stoops and the micro groups are hating this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyHarp on May 05, 2014, 03:15:36 PM
I must confess that I don't have a huge pile of knowledge on these issues but a casual observation would be that it seems ridiculous after Adams effectively led the IRA into a peace process, that years later he is being prosecuted for being a member of the IRA. You can't accept his position within the IRA as advantageous whilst negotiating peace then turn round and say, oh by the way we are going to prosecute you now for holding this position.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 05, 2014, 03:43:50 PM
QuoteThis will bring our vote out and expect the Stoops and the micro groups are hating this.

Will these people have the maturity to transfer and ensure that unionists only get one Euro seat or will they take a Sinn Féin approach and plump?

QuoteYou can't accept his position within the IRA as advantageous whilst negotiating peace then turn round and say, oh by the way we are going to prosecute you now for holding this position.

It would be ridiculous to charge Adams with IRA membership. Possibly the PSNI expect the prosecution not to go ahead, one conspiracy theory would expect that this would contrive to give the impression of real evidence but a political decision not to prosecute.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 05, 2014, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 01:29:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 05, 2014, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 12:06:24 AM
If anyone thinks headlines like "I am innocent of murder" play well you are swallowing too much Tullamore Dew. I don't know how 'measured' could be applied to such a stunning situation. Ould Gery still moaned about being treated poorly as if being implicated in a murder didn't warrant the most thorough investigation possible.

The hypocrisy of Sinn Fein is what is being broadcast to Ireland as a whole and Enda, Martin and everyone else in the Dail will have had a very happy weekend.
The only people who will give a rats ass are people like yourself who didn't like him before the arrest anyway. And I don't think the headlines well be "I am innocent of murder". More likely to be "Adams released without charge". But of course if you have information,  I'm sure you'll be passing it on to the cops?

If you don't think the floating voters - in other words the very voters who were buoying Sinn Fein's record poll ratings a week ago - don't care then you're a fantasist.

I know he's 'your guy' (as a SF supporter) but the fact is he isn't anyone else's and they have no great attachment to him or his party and things as public as a four day arrest over a murder of a woman are certainly going to effect the party's perception outside of die-hard Republican communities. Far lesser issues sunk Sean Gallagher.

It feels like some SF supporters (and the big hats themselves) are trying to play a PR game when there really is no way for this not to be damaging.
So floating voters may be turned off voting SF due to Adams being released without charge? Is it just the fact that there was accusations of a link between Adams and the IRA? Had they never heard such accusations like that before? The only people who will be put off by Adams getting released without charge are those like your good self and our bullshitting friend myles, who never liked SF/Adams anyway, and who probably spent the past five days peeing themselves in gleeful anticipation of Adams being charged.
I said in an earlier post that SF wouldn't lose any floaters because Adams had been arrested (whether he was charged or not), but because of the reaction of the party to that arrest. McGuinness did a very good impression all week of a man peeing himself, to use your own phrase, and Mary Lou weighed in behind with a bit of panty-wetting just to show solidarity. I thought as a party they were showing signs of change in recent times, showing greater maturity and a willingness to take risks to reach out beyond their traditional support. The way they've thrown their toys out of the pram this week shows that not to be the case.

Bullshit, once again. So conveniently you were going to vote for them "until the events of this week", despite your repeated terming them as "w**kers" who are "unfit to run the country" across this board. Tell me, what was it that swung you from calling them
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 05, 2013, 07:37:27 PM
w**kers with a capital W.
in December, to the point of wanting to vote for them by May?
You're good at digging up my previous posts, not so good at actually reading them it seems. If you look at what I said, you'll see that I was 'thinking' of voting for SF. That means considering them as a possible choice - that's a few paces off  'going to vote for them' or 'wanting to vote for them'. I was considering them as a possibility for a number of reasons. I'm a traditional SDLP voter, but that party is in terminal decline, therefore I feel another vote for them might well be a wasted vote. I'm not a unionist, therefore the options open to me would be Alliance, the Greens or SF. The Greens are a single issue, marginal bunch so I've ruled them out. I've tried looking at SF with fresh eyes, to set aside the opinions I've had about them for many years, to see if they really have emerged from the shadow of the conflict. There are promising signs of that happening. Máirtín O Muilleoir has been excellent as Lord Mayor of Belfast and has been a credit to his city and party. SF's acceptance and attendance at Buckingham Palace was also a sign that they seem ready to do difficult things in the interests of reaching out to unionists. Caral ni chuilin has also been doing good work as sports minister and has worked well with the IFA over the Windsor Park redevelopment. When I look at that sort of stuff, I think maybe it's time to give credit where it's due and accept that the party has moved on. Then we have the events of this week, with McGuinness talking about cabals and dark forces and threatening to withdraw support for the PSNI. Are those the actions of a party fit to govern, not just here, but down south? The Tory Party had one of their own cabinet ministers stitched up by the police, but I don't recall Cameron threatening to withdraw support from the Met. Republican dissidents must have been laughing themselves stupid. Poor leadership, and I thinks Adams' more measured statement at the press conference was a rebuke to Marty and Mary Lou.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 05, 2014, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2014, 03:43:50 PM
QuoteThis will bring our vote out and expect the Stoops and the micro groups are hating this.

Will these people have the maturity to transfer and ensure that unionists only get one Euro seat or will they take a Sinn Féin approach and plump?

QuoteYou can't accept his position within the IRA as advantageous whilst negotiating peace then turn round and say, oh by the way we are going to prosecute you now for holding this position.

It would be ridiculous to charge Adams with IRA membership. Possibly the PSNI expect the prosecution not to go ahead, one conspiracy theory would expect that this would contrive to give the impression of real evidence but a political decision not to prosecute.

I cannot answer that as I am canvassing for SF so don't ask who they are transferring to if any.Also don't believe even if they did transfer to that wee runt Attwood he would still get enough to get him over the line.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 06:37:19 PM
BBC now reporting that ANY charge against Adams is "highly unlikely"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 05, 2014, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 05, 2014, 03:54:14 PM
If you look at what I said, you'll see that I was 'thinking' of voting for SF. That means considering them as a possible choice - that's a few paces off  'going to vote for them' or 'wanting to vote for them'.

Repeatedly terming them "w**kers", or "w**kers of the highest order" and "unfit" in the past few months is also a "few paces off" bullshitting us that until this week, you had been
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 05, 2014, 09:45:29 AM
thinking of giving my first preference to them this time around
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 08:53:27 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 06:37:19 PM
BBC now reporting that ANY charge against Adams is "highly unlikely"

No shock there.

All panning out nicely.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 05, 2014, 09:11:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 05, 2014, 02:25:08 PM
The great legal minds will have to consider the 30 year old picture of Adams in shades and beret marching down a Belfast street etc.  the result of 4 days interrogation - an open source picture , as evidence that our Gerry was in the IRA.

Does this mean Peter Robinson should expect a visit to Antrim station in the near future? I recall seeing pictures of him in Monaghan wearing combats, glasses and brandishing a weapon. I just can't make up my mind which organization he belonged to.

He better put an ankle tag on Iris before he leaves in case she gets "lost" again at some young fellas house.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !


How do you know that he hadn't the guts?

I read a lot about Billy Wright being a sectarian murderer. Was I a simpleton for believing that that was true?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Apparently so on May 05, 2014, 09:21:34 PM
Gerry Adams was in the IRA and he should be proud to have been in it

Adams wasn't in the Ra  ;D  ;D f**k sake
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on May 05, 2014, 09:22:01 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !

So why did they want him at Cheyne Walk?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !


How do you know that he hadn't the guts?

I read a lot about Billy Wright being a sectarian murderer. Was I a simpleton for believing that that was true?
Was that not reporting on actual factual evidence proven against wright...
Plus his own admissions of actions and operations

I don't know whether you are a simpleton or not!

Linking Adams with the IRA is an affront to the volunteers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 05, 2014, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: dec on May 05, 2014, 09:22:01 PM


So why did they want him at Cheyne Walk?

probably because he was better at reeding and riting than the rest of them. and he had glasses which made him seem intelligent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !


How do you know that he hadn't the guts?

I read a lot about Billy Wright being a sectarian murderer. Was I a simpleton for believing that that was true?
Was that not reporting on actual factual evidence proven against wright...
Plus his own admissions of actions and operations

I don't know whether you are a simpleton or not!

Linking Adams with the IRA is an affront to the volunteers

No hard evidence that Billy was a murderer.

Just hearsay and newspaper articles just like the bearded one!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:58:37 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !


How do you know that he hadn't the guts?

I read a lot about Billy Wright being a sectarian murderer. Was I a simpleton for believing that that was true?
Was that not reporting on actual factual evidence proven against wright...
Plus his own admissions of actions and operations

I don't know whether you are a simpleton or not!

Linking Adams with the IRA is an affront to the volunteers

No hard evidence that Billy was a murderer.

Just hearsay and newspaper articles just like the bearded one!!
Don't believe that is the case but I'm not student of wright
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 10:31:49 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:58:37 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !


How do you know that he hadn't the guts?

I read a lot about Billy Wright being a sectarian murderer. Was I a simpleton for believing that that was true?
Was that not reporting on actual factual evidence proven against wright...
Plus his own admissions of actions and operations

I don't know whether you are a simpleton or not!

Linking Adams with the IRA is an affront to the volunteers

No hard evidence that Billy was a murderer.

Just hearsay and newspaper articles just like the bearded one!!
Don't believe that is the case but I'm not student of wright

It is the case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 05, 2014, 10:32:00 PM
Queue the choreographer

SINN Fein Gerry Adams has been informed of a "credible threat" against his life, the party's Belfast Office has confirmed.

A PSNI officer visited Mr Adams's home last night and informed the Sinn Fein President's family that a live threat had been established.

Mr Adams was not at home at the time and the information was passed onto his wife Collette.

According to a statement from Sinn Fein's Justice spokesperson in the North, Raymond McCartney, the death threat was also made against fellow Sinn Fein figure Bobby Storey.

"I can confirm that the PSNI visited the homes of Gerry Adams and Bobby Storey last night to warn them of a credible threat against their lives," Mr McCartney said.

"The PSNI officer told Gerry Adams wife Collette that they had information of a "serious threat from criminals" to Gerry Adams who was not at home at the time.

"Clearly there are elements that are opposed to the peace process and anti Sinn Féin. We will not allow them to succeed nor will we be deflected from our determination to build the peace process."

A police spokesman said the force did not discuss the security of any individual.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 05, 2014, 10:35:27 PM
It's quite feasible that Adams wasn't in the IRA.
His every public utterance has been to  support the IRA and he has shouldered the coffins of  IRA  volunteers who died in actions which were publically despised, it would be no big leap of faith for him to admit to actually being a member.

But I would find hard to believe that he didn't at any stage take the oath of allegiance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 11:35:40 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 10:31:49 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:58:37 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !


How do you know that he hadn't the guts?

I read a lot about Billy Wright being a sectarian murderer. Was I a simpleton for believing that that was true?
Was that not reporting on actual factual evidence proven against wright...
Plus his own admissions of actions and operations

I don't know whether you are a simpleton or not!

Linking Adams with the IRA is an affront to the volunteers

No hard evidence that Billy was a murderer.

Just hearsay and newspaper articles just like the bearded one!!
Don't believe that is the case but I'm not student of wright

It is the case.
I am not one to believe the lines if Wikipedia but check out its piece on weight
He did 6 years for uvf and arms offenses and was leader of uvf and then founded the MBD ( I remember that one)
So think you are wrong about this one as well as about adams
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 05, 2014, 11:40:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdeKEbTQt0s&feature=youtu.be

Thin Lizzy coming to a station near you!


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 11:53:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 11:35:40 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 10:31:49 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:58:37 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 05, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 05, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 05, 2014, 10:03:28 AM
BBC reporting that the PPS will be looking at charges of IRA membership against Adams not the McConville murder.
If true then this proves the whole episode/charade was to try and get at/do and discredit Adams so he'd have to go
Long term that would only help sf IMO
So this must be the last efforts of Adams former ruc/Securocrat enemies still pulling the strings in psni/civil service/dept of security etc

If I was Adams I'd be a tad worried here.
There is no way they can fit him up on charges for mcconville case as it is too serious
That kite could never fly.

However, I'd think they might feel they could get away with charging him with membership -as most gullible people already think he was in it.
So all they need is a few informers to collude and gerrys word I'd fecked.
Under gfa he can no longer be done - but this charge would give northern and southern political enemies so much muck to throw that Adams really would have to stand aside!

Let's face it, membership is most def not a problem for McGuinness.
He is lauded as a statesman now and prob will be our next president.
Adams told the truth that he hadn't the guys to actually be in the IRA- though grew up, was friendly with and was trusted by the various IRA leaders in Belfast - who saw that he was a better talker and politician than they , so entrusted the political side and business with him.

Now if Adams is 'fitted up' he has to leave politics ( IMO) - which is the goal of this whole exercise I reckon!

It's pretty obvious he was a member of the IRA.
Quite the opposite actually!

But you can think what you like!

And you go ahead thinking what you want.

I've learnt there's no point arguing facts with regards SF or Adams with someone who has a dug-in position on them. Needless to say if Gerry is charged he has only one person to blame and it's not a shadowy conspiracy.
aye go on ahead and give us the info to show adams was in the IRA
the rus/psni did their dirty best over the weekend but fell short because he wasn't
but go right ahead and show us all

plenty of us in the north during the 80's knew he was nothing but a friend of the top guys in the IRA as he grew up with them, that's as close as he got. but maybe you grew up beside him and saw different!!!!

or are you from Roscommon and know better?



Anyone who believes that Adams was not in the IRA is a simpleton!!!
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !


How do you know that he hadn't the guts?

I read a lot about Billy Wright being a sectarian murderer. Was I a simpleton for believing that that was true?
Was that not reporting on actual factual evidence proven against wright...
Plus his own admissions of actions and operations

I don't know whether you are a simpleton or not!

Linking Adams with the IRA is an affront to the volunteers

No hard evidence that Billy was a murderer.

Just hearsay and newspaper articles just like the bearded one!!
Don't believe that is the case but I'm not student of wright

It is the case.
I am not one to believe the lines if Wikipedia but check out its piece on weight
He did 6 years for uvf and arms offenses and was leader of uvf and then founded the MBD ( I remember that one)
So think you are wrong about this one as well as about adams


Was there hard evidence that Billy Wright was a sectarian murderer? The answer to that is no. It was all hearsay and newspaper articles. Exactly the same as in Adams case.

For what it's worth I do believe that Wright was a sectarian murderer. As I believe that Adams was in the Ra.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 06, 2014, 11:45:44 AM
Peter firing a shot across SF's bows.

Northern Ireland's first minister has said his party would have tried to exclude Sinn Féin from government if it had not "corrected" its support for the Police Service of Northern Ireland.

Sinn Féin had criticised police over the arrest of their party leader Gerry Adams and hinted they would review their support if he was charged.

Gerry Adams was questioned over a 1972 murder but released without charge.

Following his release, Mr Adams said he still supported the PSNI.

'Pledge of office'

Mr Robinson, who leads the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), said if Sinn Féin had withdrawn its support, his party would have brought an exclusion motion before the assembly.

"We would not be slow in bringing forward a motion for their exclusion. Indeed, if Sinn Féin had not corrected their position the motion would have gone down," he said.

Mr Robinson also questioned whether the deputy first minister, Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness, had breached his pledge of office, which requires support for the police.

On Friday, while Mr Adams was still in custody, Mr McGuinness hinted that Sinn Féin might look again at whether it would continue to support the PSNI.

The party claimed the arrest was politically motivated and deliberately timed in order to influence the outcome of elections in three weeks' time.

The DUP leader called on Mr McGuinness to clarify his views after the Sinn Féin MLA made allegations about some senior police officers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on May 06, 2014, 12:18:16 PM
Oh the big powerful Peter showing his power there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 06, 2014, 12:38:35 PM
Reading through the last 20 pages on Adams, one word springs to mind...hypocrisy, politics north and south is all based on the rank hypocrisy. Peter the Punt has no issue with commemorations for UVF terrorist gun runners in 1914, or his party members sharing common cause in the last three decades with other loyalist terrorists. But when it comes to republicans well...that's different. Same in the South, Gilmore's sticky past, the foundation of the old Free State, we are led to believe that that was led by Choirboys, butter wouldn't melt! From partition on till now all sides have plenty to answer for. The British, Loyalists, Republicans and authorities in the South. It has been forgotton amidst all rhetoric over Adams alleged involvement in the murder of Jean McConville that things in the North were so bad in that period the Jack Lynch had consider invasion. We are in a better place now. It is all to easy to judge the actions of 40/50 years ago with the 20/20 vision of today. Adams and McGuinness have made this possible, no one else could have, Republicans needed to be led from within. Just a pity that PUL community has not had similar leadership. The arrest and detention of Adams was unnecessary, if there had been any credible evidence against him do you think for one moment he'd have handed himself in? Hard as it is for victims, and easy as it is for me to say. There was hurt and killings on all sides, time to embrace Haas and draw a line...But loyalists can't move on. The further they move from glorifying past victories over the Irish the further they move towards reunification and integration.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 06, 2014, 04:24:33 PM
Moloney and McIntyre...is this turning into a fiasco for them?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/boston-college-history-department-distances-itself-from-tapes-1.1785452

The history department at Boston College in the US has disowned the archive which it is believed was central to the arrest of Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams last Wednesday.  It has said that the archive, known as the Belfast Project, "is not and never was a Boston College History Department project".  In an open letter signed by each of the past five professors and chairs of the history department at the college since 1997, up to and including the present incumbent Prof Robin Fleming, it acknowledges however that "the project was funded by Boston College" but takes exception to media references to it as a project of "BC historians" and "BC professors." That, it states, "is fundamentally inaccurate."  It points out that "the interviews that make up the archive were conducted by former members of the paramilitary organisations who were hired by the journalist Ed Moloney.  Neither the interviewers, Anthony McIntyre and Wilson McArthur, nor Mr Moloney were employed in or by the History Department at Boston College.  They were subcontracted to do the job by people acting outside the department and without the involvement of the department."  The subcontracting was done "by the director of the Burns Library, never a member of the history department, and the director of the Center for Irish Programs who, while a member of the department, was acting in his own administrative capacity".  It adds that "in fact, most members of the history faculty were unaware of the existence of the project until publication of Moloney's book - Voices from the Grave - in 2010. Successive department chairs had not been informed of the project, nor had the department been consulted on the merits of the effort or the appropriate procedures to be followed in carrying out such a fraught and potentially controversial venture."  The letter is signed by all five: Prof Fleming, his predecessor Prof James Cronin, his predecessor Prof Marilynn Johnson, her predecessor Prof Alan Rogers and his predecessor Prof Peter Weiler.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 06, 2014, 04:44:54 PM
It's alright until somebody gets hurt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 06, 2014, 05:21:24 PM
Ed pleads his innocence now too. Everyone is innocent - nobody is guilty of anything.

The director of an oral history project on the Northern Ireland Troubles - part of which was relied upon by police to quiz Gerry Adams about a notorious IRA murder - has rejected any suggestion it was set up to "get" the Sinn Fein president.

New York based Irish Journalist Ed Moloney insisted Mr Adams' vocal criticism of the Boston College-backed endeavour was based on "almost complete ignorance", as he had not seen the contents of the archive.

"In the past few days a concerted attack has been made on the integrity of the Belfast Oral History Project, led by the leadership of Sinn Fein, in which the claim has been made that this was a 'Get Gerry Adams' enterprise designed to embarrass and discomfort Mr Adams," he said.

"I wish to refute this allegation in the strongest possible terms."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 07:32:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !
Given that so many atrocities were quite fairly described as 'cowardly' - the McConville and McArdle murders, for example - i'm not sure 'bravery' was a pre-requisite. But that aside, i'm sure plenty were involved at certain levels that didn't require 'getting the hands dirty'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 06, 2014, 08:18:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 07:32:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !
Given that so many atrocities were quite fairly described as 'cowardly' - the McConville and McArdle murders, for example - i'm not sure 'bravery' was a pre-requisite. But that aside, i'm sure plenty were involved at certain levels that didn't require 'getting the hands dirty'.
Horrendous and IMO disgrace fi killing of mrs mc conville

But as it seems to be the case- nothing exists to prove Adams of anything other than crimes against fashion
No matter how much you'd all like it to be true
It can't be proven because it isn't true
But I'm sure you'd know more

Whoever ordered the killing, it wasn't Adams - who could hardly order a bag of chips
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 06, 2014, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 07:32:29 PM
Given that so many atrocities were quite fairly described as 'cowardly' - the McConville and McArdle murders, for example - i'm not sure 'bravery' was a pre-requisite. But that aside, i'm sure plenty were involved at certain levels that didn't require 'getting the hands dirty'.
Bravery was reserved for those lovely chaps in the armoured cars who patrolled the streets and shot people randomly while they were going to the shops, off to mass etc.

Catch yourself on clown.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 06, 2014, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 07:32:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !
Given that so many atrocities were quite fairly described as 'cowardly' - the McConville and McArdle murders, for example - i'm not sure 'bravery' was a pre-requisite. But that aside, i'm sure plenty were involved at certain levels that didn't require 'getting the hands dirty'.


what McArdle murder is that,was Gerry blamed on this as well?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 06, 2014, 08:57:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 06, 2014, 04:24:33 PM
Moloney and McIntyre...is this turning into a fiasco for them?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/boston-college-history-department-distances-itself-from-tapes-1.1785452

The history department at Boston College in the US has disowned the archive which it is believed was central to the arrest of Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams last Wednesday.  It has said that the archive, known as the Belfast Project, "is not and never was a Boston College History Department project".  In an open letter signed by each of the past five professors and chairs of the history department at the college since 1997, up to and including the present incumbent Prof Robin Fleming, it acknowledges however that "the project was funded by Boston College" but takes exception to media references to it as a project of "BC historians" and "BC professors." That, it states, "is fundamentally inaccurate."  It points out that "the interviews that make up the archive were conducted by former members of the paramilitary organisations who were hired by the journalist Ed Moloney.  Neither the interviewers, Anthony McIntyre and Wilson McArthur, nor Mr Moloney were employed in or by the History Department at Boston College.  They were subcontracted to do the job by people acting outside the department and without the involvement of the department."  The subcontracting was done "by the director of the Burns Library, never a member of the history department, and the director of the Center for Irish Programs who, while a member of the department, was acting in his own administrative capacity".  It adds that "in fact, most members of the history faculty were unaware of the existence of the project until publication of Moloney's book - Voices from the Grave - in 2010. Successive department chairs had not been informed of the project, nor had the department been consulted on the merits of the effort or the appropriate procedures to be followed in carrying out such a fraught and potentially controversial venture."  The letter is signed by all five: Prof Fleming, his predecessor Prof James Cronin, his predecessor Prof Marilynn Johnson, her predecessor Prof Alan Rogers and his predecessor Prof Peter Weiler.

great to see the mess they have got themselves into.This man McIntyre who Give Her Dixie quotes all the time to attack SF is paid £100k to get people to tell lies and tout on former friends and comrades to try and discredit SF and Adams.He worked for McFeely in the Priory Hall project that left scores of people homeless with big debts and even one person taken his own life he was so depressed.The Brits and their fellow travellers will stoop as low as they can to attack Republicans but I have a message for you Dixie it's not working, people are see you all for what you are.Enjoy May the 25th when the results are in. :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 10:23:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 06, 2014, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 07:32:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !
Given that so many atrocities were quite fairly described as 'cowardly' - the McConville and McArdle murders, for example - i'm not sure 'bravery' was a pre-requisite. But that aside, i'm sure plenty were involved at certain levels that didn't require 'getting the hands dirty'.


what McArdle murder is that,was Gerry blamed on this as well?
Not that I'm aware. Have you maybe missed my point? I was challenging the idea that bravery was a pre-requisite for involvement in such activities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 10:27:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2014, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 07:32:29 PM
Given that so many atrocities were quite fairly described as 'cowardly' - the McConville and McArdle murders, for example - i'm not sure 'bravery' was a pre-requisite. But that aside, i'm sure plenty were involved at certain levels that didn't require 'getting the hands dirty'.
Bravery was reserved for those lovely chaps in the armoured cars who patrolled the streets and shot people randomly while they were going to the shops, off to mass etc.

Catch yourself on clown.
Did I say that those in "armoured cars" were brave for randomly shooting people? Or is that just a massive leap you've taken in your own head?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 10:30:30 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 06, 2014, 08:18:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 07:32:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !
Given that so many atrocities were quite fairly described as 'cowardly' - the McConville and McArdle murders, for example - i'm not sure 'bravery' was a pre-requisite. But that aside, i'm sure plenty were involved at certain levels that didn't require 'getting the hands dirty'.
Horrendous and IMO disgrace fi killing of mrs mc conville

But as it seems to be the case- nothing exists to prove Adams of anything other than crimes against fashion
No matter how much you'd all like it to be true
It can't be proven because it isn't true
But I'm sure you'd know more

Whoever ordered the killing, it wasn't Adams - who could hardly order a bag of chips
I don't know more at all, nor do I claim to. You're the one making absolute claims.

And to suggest Adams could "hardly order a bag of chips" doesn't quite tally with his obvious political competence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 10:32:41 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 06, 2014, 10:26:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 10:23:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 06, 2014, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 07:32:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
The only simpletons are the ones believing all they read in the press!!

Adams hadn't the guts to join the IRA, not did they want him!
He isn't ( and wasn't) liked by a lot of militant republicans !
Given that so many atrocities were quite fairly described as 'cowardly' - the McConville and McArdle murders, for example - i'm not sure 'bravery' was a pre-requisite. But that aside, i'm sure plenty were involved at certain levels that didn't require 'getting the hands dirty'.


what McArdle murder is that,was Gerry blamed on this as well?
Not that I'm aware. Have you maybe missed my point? I was challenging the idea that bravery was a pre-requisite for involvement in such activities.
I think he is suggesting that it is the Travers murder you are trying to refer to....
Yes, my mistake.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 06, 2014, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 10:27:03 PM
Did I say that those in "armoured cars" were brave for randomly shooting people? Or is that just a massive leap you've taken in your own head?
To say to a RUC/UDR apologist it's not that big a leap.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 10:37:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2014, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2014, 10:27:03 PM
Did I say that those in "armoured cars" were brave for randomly shooting people? Or is that just a massive leap you've taken in your own head?
To say to a RUC/UDR apologist it's not that big a leap.
I can see you're going to be a great addition.  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 07, 2014, 01:04:54 AM
http://youtu.be/pYjpu8JUUbE (http://youtu.be/pYjpu8JUUbE)
Big crowd and an interesting speech from Gerry Adams.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 07, 2014, 04:42:27 AM
The stoops are going to have to amalgamate with the Alliance party and the UUP to survive the next election. Sad for them really as Hume was a decent chap. Not that Austin currie though. a complete tool.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 07, 2014, 08:18:27 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 07, 2014, 01:04:54 AM
http://youtu.be/pYjpu8JUUbE (http://youtu.be/pYjpu8JUUbE)
Big crowd and an interesting speech from Gerry Adams.

Did they bus them in again, like at the rally on Saturday?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 07, 2014, 09:13:20 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 07, 2014, 04:42:27 AM
The stoops are going to have to amalgamate with the Alliance party and the UUP to survive the next election. Sad for them really as Hume was a decent chap. Not that Austin currie though. a complete tool.

His family heard you. Look at the face of the chiseller on the left, you brute!

(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000IIMl_nozf9Q/s/860/860/Currie-Anita-children-197211160724.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 07, 2014, 09:29:46 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 06, 2014, 08:57:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 06, 2014, 04:24:33 PM
Moloney and McIntyre...is this turning into a fiasco for them?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/boston-college-history-department-distances-itself-from-tapes-1.1785452

The history department at Boston College in the US has disowned the archive which it is believed was central to the arrest of Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams last Wednesday.  It has said that the archive, known as the Belfast Project, "is not and never was a Boston College History Department project".  In an open letter signed by each of the past five professors and chairs of the history department at the college since 1997, up to and including the present incumbent Prof Robin Fleming, it acknowledges however that "the project was funded by Boston College" but takes exception to media references to it as a project of "BC historians" and "BC professors." That, it states, "is fundamentally inaccurate."  It points out that "the interviews that make up the archive were conducted by former members of the paramilitary organisations who were hired by the journalist Ed Moloney.  Neither the interviewers, Anthony McIntyre and Wilson McArthur, nor Mr Moloney were employed in or by the History Department at Boston College.  They were subcontracted to do the job by people acting outside the department and without the involvement of the department."  The subcontracting was done "by the director of the Burns Library, never a member of the history department, and the director of the Center for Irish Programs who, while a member of the department, was acting in his own administrative capacity".  It adds that "in fact, most members of the history faculty were unaware of the existence of the project until publication of Moloney's book - Voices from the Grave - in 2010. Successive department chairs had not been informed of the project, nor had the department been consulted on the merits of the effort or the appropriate procedures to be followed in carrying out such a fraught and potentially controversial venture."  The letter is signed by all five: Prof Fleming, his predecessor Prof James Cronin, his predecessor Prof Marilynn Johnson, her predecessor Prof Alan Rogers and his predecessor Prof Peter Weiler.

great to see the mess they have got themselves into.This man McIntyre who Give Her Dixie quotes all the time to attack SF is paid £100k to get people to tell lies and tout on former friends and comrades to try and discredit SF and Adams.He worked for McFeely in the Priory Hall project that left scores of people homeless with big debts and even one person taken his own life he was so depressed.The Brits and their fellow travellers will stoop as low as they can to attack Republicans but I have a message for you Dixie it's not working, people are see you all for what you are.Enjoy May the 25th when the results are in. :-[ :-[

Edit:

Two interesting points to come out of the Spotlight Programme last night.  First, Ed Moloney confirmed that his contract with Boston College/The Burns Library stated that though they would try to ensure anonymity and confidentiality for interviewees, ultimately the project was subject to USA law.  So in essence he knew that anonymity or confidentiality could not be guaranteed 100%.

Second, Anthony McIntyre confirmed that he (McIntyre) is one of the interviewees on tape.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 07, 2014, 09:57:55 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 07, 2014, 08:18:27 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 07, 2014, 01:04:54 AM
http://youtu.be/pYjpu8JUUbE (http://youtu.be/pYjpu8JUUbE)
Big crowd and an interesting speech from Gerry Adams.

Did they bus them in again, like at the rally on Saturday?

Dont be a dick all your days of course they used buses as it was a 6 county Euro election rally,did you expect them to walk for Derry,Tyrone etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on May 07, 2014, 11:43:58 AM
Fair play to lynchbhoy. I've seen and heard many people deny Adams was a member of the IRA, but he's the first one who comes across as 100% believing it himself!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 07, 2014, 11:51:06 AM
Another man rearrested today in the Antrim suite.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 07, 2014, 11:59:56 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?

If you saw Spotlight last night it contained a short piece by Darragh McIntyre in which he stated that it is thought that many of those involved in the actual abduction of Jean McConville were teenagers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 07, 2014, 11:59:56 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?

If you saw Spotlight last night it contained a short piece by Darragh McIntyre in which he stated that it is thought that many of those involved in the actual abduction of Jean McConville were teenagers.

I seen it but 14 is still a child. I imagined him to have been reffering to 16 (at the youngest) - 19 year olds. Was the people who gave orders so bad that they sent children to abduct people?! How dirty can you get!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 07, 2014, 12:43:14 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 07, 2014, 11:59:56 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?

If you saw Spotlight last night it contained a short piece by Darragh McIntyre in which he stated that it is thought that many of those involved in the actual abduction of Jean McConville were teenagers.

I seen it but 14 is still a child. I imagined him to have been reffering to 16 (at the youngest) - 19 year olds. Was the people who gave orders so bad that they sent children to abduct people?! How dirty can you get!

The Dark was OC of D company and would have only been 24 at the time,Dolours Price who would also have been senior in that area was only 20 years old and a year older when she was arrested in England.They were bad times and very young men and women involved,so yes I would say some Fianna members could well have been involved in taking Mrs McConville away for interrogation.You need to read your history books and will find out that youth have been involved in struggles and wars all over the world just need to visit Flanders fields and you will get your eyes opened.War is not a very pleasent thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 01:06:50 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 07, 2014, 12:43:14 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 07, 2014, 11:59:56 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?

If you saw Spotlight last night it contained a short piece by Darragh McIntyre in which he stated that it is thought that many of those involved in the actual abduction of Jean McConville were teenagers.

I seen it but 14 is still a child. I imagined him to have been reffering to 16 (at the youngest) - 19 year olds. Was the people who gave orders so bad that they sent children to abduct people?! How dirty can you get!

The Dark was OC of D company and would have only been 24 at the time,Dolours Price who would also have been senior in that area was only 20 years old and a year older when she was arrested in England.They were bad times and very young men and women involved,so yes I would say some Fianna members could well have been involved in taking Mrs McConville away for interrogation.You need to read your history books and will find out that youth have been involved in struggles and wars all over the world just need to visit Flanders fields and you will get your eyes opened.War is not a very pleasent thing.

What happened to Mrs McConville wasn't war. It was murder. Brenden Hughes and Marion Price were young adults but still adults. More than old enough to know what they were doing. At 14 you are still a child and unable to make rational decisions like an adult. Whatever dirty people allowed and sent 14 year old(s) to carry out such an act should burn in hell if there is a hell. It's child abuse!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 07, 2014, 01:14:04 PM
I am still convinced this is all part of a careful choreography.

It could be that the PSNI decided to plough ahead with the investigation into this particular murder. They would be entitled to do this, but if they ignored other other murders of the troubles they would leave themselves open to serious criticism and undermine their credibility.

It could be that Adams decided to react to the pressure from the Boston tapes and to call everyone's bluff, as he might see it, or that he has done a deal at some level and he will settle with a minor charge and move on.

It could also be that this is part of a bigger play, for example we don't know too much about the Haas talks but if the Unionists had pulled the plug citing this issue as the biggest reason not to do a deal, then that argument might fade away shortly. This could bring an overall deal to address the past back on the agenda.

I am hoping the last suggestion is the one or something along similar lines.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 07, 2014, 02:17:26 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 01:06:50 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 07, 2014, 12:43:14 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 07, 2014, 11:59:56 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?

If you saw Spotlight last night it contained a short piece by Darragh McIntyre in which he stated that it is thought that many of those involved in the actual abduction of Jean McConville were teenagers.

I seen it but 14 is still a child. I imagined him to have been reffering to 16 (at the youngest) - 19 year olds. Was the people who gave orders so bad that they sent children to abduct people?! How dirty can you get!

The Dark was OC of D company and would have only been 24 at the time,Dolours Price who would also have been senior in that area was only 20 years old and a year older when she was arrested in England.They were bad times and very young men and women involved,so yes I would say some Fianna members could well have been involved in taking Mrs McConville away for interrogation.You need to read your history books and will find out that youth have been involved in struggles and wars all over the world just need to visit Flanders fields and you will get your eyes opened.War is not a very pleasent thing.

What happened to Mrs McConville wasn't war. It was murder. Brenden Hughes and Marion Price were young adults but still adults. More than old enough to know what they were doing. At 14 you are still a child and unable to make rational decisions like an adult. Whatever dirty people allowed and sent 14 year old(s) to carry out such an act should burn in hell if there is a hell. It's child abuse!

Well it was a war as far as I am concerned,but yes you are 100% right to was horrendous what happened to Jean McConville and don't think anyone could even attempt to justify it.All I was saying is that young people got caught up in the middle of a terrible situation that was Belfast in the early 70's,many were jailed,many killed or injured and many did things that were awful and I am sure they live with it everyday.Thank God for people like Gerry Adams who have brought us away from this and I hope,pray and work that my grandchildren never have to live through times like that again.That is one of the reasons I work most nights for SF either in elections or on interfaces or this young people in different projects to keep them off the streets and let them mix with children from different backgrounds.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 07, 2014, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 01:06:50 PM
Whatever dirty people allowed and sent 14 year old(s) to carry out such an act should burn in hell if there is a hell. It's child abuse!
You've decided it to be fact then? Guilty until proven innocent?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 07, 2014, 02:28:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 07, 2014, 01:14:04 PM
It could also be that this is part of a bigger play, for example we don't know too much about the Haas talks but if the Unionists had pulled the plug citing this issue as the biggest reason not to do a deal, then that argument might fade away shortly. This could bring an overall deal to address the past back on the agenda.
The past wasn't where unionists fell foul of Haas. They has bigger priorities: Parading.

To quote a recent blog from Jude Collins, "They [Hass talks] didn't founder because the parties couldn't agree; they foundered because the unionist parties couldn't agree. Couldn't agree on what? On parades. Agreement was reached by everyone involved on dealing with the past; the problem point was parades. So if we're really concerned for victims, wouldn't it have made sense to salvage the agreed approach to the past and come back to parades at a later point? Since that didn't happen, it's hard to believe that those most vociferous about the beastly details of Jean McConville's death really give a damn about her or her family. If they did, they would have insisted that the agreed approach to the past be implemented and left parades for another day."

Interesting too is that one of the DUP's delegates at the Hass talks was "Reverend" Mervyn Gibson. The same "Christian" minister who earlier in the week spoke of his disappointment that the mural of Gerry Adams "was not a memorial mural". With people like that representing the DUP at the talks, it's amazing they even lasted as long as they did before unionism once again said no.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on May 07, 2014, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?

To all you youngsters:

Only people of a certain age understand the context of life in the late sixties and early seventies. One of my early memories is the entire family on our knees saying the rosary in our living room (along with a neighbour who had called in for a visit) and then listening to RTE on the wireless afterwards about helpless catholics in Belfast under attack from protestants and the british army. Pride in your country did not start at voting age.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 07, 2014, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?

To all you youngsters:

Only people of a certain age understand the context of life in the late sixties and early seventies. One of my early memories is the entire family on our knees saying the rosary in our living room (along with a neighbour who had called in for a visit) and then listening to RTE on the wireless afterwards about helpless catholics in Belfast under attack from protestants and the british army. Pride in your country did not start at voting age.

What's that supposed to mean? People who take up arms have more pride in their country than those who think it wrong to do such things? If you are a certain age you should act it!

But never mind that, it's the fact that his so called superiors (allegedly) put him into that situation at 14 years old. They should have told him to go home and do his homework!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 03:54:42 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 07, 2014, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 01:06:50 PM
Whatever dirty people allowed and sent 14 year old(s) to carry out such an act should burn in hell if there is a hell. It's child abuse!
You've decided it to be fact then? Guilty until proven innocent?

No I haven't. Innocent until proven guilty. But if it did happen it's shocking to say the least.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on May 07, 2014, 04:06:42 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 07, 2014, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?

To all you youngsters:

Only people of a certain age understand the context of life in the late sixties and early seventies. One of my early memories is the entire family on our knees saying the rosary in our living room (along with a neighbour who had called in for a visit) and then listening to RTE on the wireless afterwards about helpless catholics in Belfast under attack from protestants and the british army. Pride in your country did not start at voting age.

What's that supposed to mean? People who take up arms have more pride in their country than those who think it wrong to do such things? If you are a certain age you should act it!

But never mind that, it's the fact that his so called superiors (allegedly) put him into that situation at 14 years old. They should have told him to go home and do his homework!
I think what he means is that a 14 year old then would not have the same mentality as a 14 year old now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 07, 2014, 04:13:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 07, 2014, 02:28:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 07, 2014, 01:14:04 PM
It could also be that this is part of a bigger play, for example we don't know too much about the Haas talks but if the Unionists had pulled the plug citing this issue as the biggest reason not to do a deal, then that argument might fade away shortly. This could bring an overall deal to address the past back on the agenda.
The past wasn't where unionists fell foul of Haas. They has bigger priorities: Parading.

To quote a recent blog from Jude Collins, "They [Hass talks] didn't founder because the parties couldn't agree; they foundered because the unionist parties couldn't agree. Couldn't agree on what? On parades. Agreement was reached by everyone involved on dealing with the past; the problem point was parades. So if we're really concerned for victims, wouldn't it have made sense to salvage the agreed approach to the past and come back to parades at a later point? Since that didn't happen, it's hard to believe that those most vociferous about the beastly details of Jean McConville's death really give a damn about her or her family. If they did, they would have insisted that the agreed approach to the past be implemented and left parades for another day."

Interesting too is that one of the DUP's delegates at the Hass talks was "Reverend" Mervyn Gibson. The same "Christian" minister who earlier in the week spoke of his disappointment that the mural of Gerry Adams "was not a memorial mural". With people like that representing the DUP at the talks, it's amazing they even lasted as long as they did before unionism once again said no.

Parades and demonstrations are surely only a means to an end in the minds of any remotely intelligent person, not an end in themselves?

To renege on a permanent deal in favour of temporary reactionary activities is bananas.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on May 07, 2014, 04:55:41 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 07, 2014, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 07, 2014, 11:55:17 AM
The man arrested is 56 meaning he was 14 in 1972. How could a 14 year old have been involved?

To all you youngsters:

Only people of a certain age understand the context of life in the late sixties and early seventies. One of my early memories is the entire family on our knees saying the rosary in our living room (along with a neighbour who had called in for a visit) and then listening to RTE on the wireless afterwards about helpless catholics in Belfast under attack from protestants and the british army. Pride in your country did not start at voting age.

What's that supposed to mean? People who take up arms have more pride in their country than those who think it wrong to do such things? If you are a certain age you should act it!

But never mind that, it's the fact that his so called superiors (allegedly) put him into that situation at 14 years old. They should have told him to go home and do his homework!

Emmm, no. I meant that you need to have lived in the late 60's or early 70's to understand what it was like.

Actually, the same sentiment applies to the Church scandals as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 07, 2014, 04:59:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 07, 2014, 04:13:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 07, 2014, 02:28:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 07, 2014, 01:14:04 PM
It could also be that this is part of a bigger play, for example we don't know too much about the Haas talks but if the Unionists had pulled the plug citing this issue as the biggest reason not to do a deal, then that argument might fade away shortly. This could bring an overall deal to address the past back on the agenda.
The past wasn't where unionists fell foul of Haas. They has bigger priorities: Parading.

To quote a recent blog from Jude Collins, "They [Hass talks] didn't founder because the parties couldn't agree; they foundered because the unionist parties couldn't agree. Couldn't agree on what? On parades. Agreement was reached by everyone involved on dealing with the past; the problem point was parades. So if we're really concerned for victims, wouldn't it have made sense to salvage the agreed approach to the past and come back to parades at a later point? Since that didn't happen, it's hard to believe that those most vociferous about the beastly details of Jean McConville's death really give a damn about her or her family. If they did, they would have insisted that the agreed approach to the past be implemented and left parades for another day."

Interesting too is that one of the DUP's delegates at the Hass talks was "Reverend" Mervyn Gibson. The same "Christian" minister who earlier in the week spoke of his disappointment that the mural of Gerry Adams "was not a memorial mural". With people like that representing the DUP at the talks, it's amazing they even lasted as long as they did before unionism once again said no.

Parades and demonstrations are surely only a means to an end in the minds of any remotely intelligent person, not an end in themselves?

To renege on a permanent deal in favour of temporary reactionary activities is bananas.

Apparently parades are part of the "British" culture
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 07, 2014, 05:26:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 07, 2014, 04:13:53 PM

Parades and demonstrations are surely only a means to an end in the minds of any remotely intelligent person, not an end in themselves?

To renege on a permanent deal in favour of temporary reactionary activities is bananas.

You're not talking intelligent people here. DUP and UUP couldn't be seen to be less extreme than the cnuts who are still living in the 17th Century.

I notice the picture of the Curries didn't get any reaction?
I wonder could Lynchboy tell us who done it? ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 07, 2014, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 07, 2014, 12:43:14 PM
War is not a very pleasent thing.
War crimes even less so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 07, 2014, 07:15:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 07, 2014, 05:26:31 PM
I notice the picture of the Curries didn't get any reaction?

Austin must have been on the beer the night before. She should have made him that ulster fry he asked for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 08, 2014, 10:32:11 AM
Gerry Adams' account of his arrest and interrogation

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/07/jean-mcconville-killing-gerry-adams-innocent-accusers

The Jean McConville killing: I'm completely innocent. But what were my accusers' motives?

Four days of interrogation produced not a scrap of evidence. This was an assault by sinister forces on the peace process itself

My recent detention and interrogation was a serious attempt to bring charges against me. It was conducted by the retrospective major investigation team (Remit) of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, which is based at Carrickfergus, County Antrim.

I had contacted the PSNI in March to tell them I was available to meet them. This followed another intense round of the media speculation that has tried to link me to the killing in 1972 of Jean McConville. It is part of a sustained malicious, untruthful and sinister campaign going back many years.

Last Monday the PSNI said it wanted to speak to me. I was concerned about the timing. Sinn Féin is currently involved in very important EU and local government elections. Notwithstanding this, I travelled to the Antrim serious crime suite where I arrived at 8.05pm.

En route I talked to the senior investigating officer. He was insisting that I meet him in the car park opposite the PSNI barracks. He told me that I must get into a squad car and that he would then arrest me and drive me into the barracks. He said he couldn't arrest me inside the barracks under the legislation.

I told him I was going directly to the station of my own accord, voluntarily. As it turned out there is no legislative bar on me being arrested within the station. And subsequently that's exactly what happened.

My solicitor was present. I was escorted by two detectives from Remit to the serious crime suite. A custody sergeant took me through all of the processes and protocols. My belt, tie, comb, watch, Fáinne and Easter Lily pins were removed. My solicitor made representations that I be allowed to keep my pen and notebook given that the offence that I was accused of occurred 42 years ago. After some toing and froing, I was eventually granted this request by the custody superintendent.

Shortly before the first of 33 taped interviews, I was served with a pre-interview brief. This accused me of IRA membership and conspiracy in the murder of Jean McConville. It also claimed that the PSNI had new evidential material to put to me. The interview commenced at 10.55pm. Two interrogators – a man and a woman – conducted all the interrogations. All of this was recorded and videotaped. My private consultations with my solicitor may also have been covertly recorded.

I was told that the interrogations were an evidence-gathering process, and that the police would be making the case that I was a member of the IRA; that I had a senior IRA managerial role in Belfast at the time of Jean McConville's abduction; and that I was therefore bound to know about her killing. I challenged my interrogators to produce the new evidential material. They said that this would happen at a later interview but they wanted to take me through my childhood, family history and so on. Over the following four days it became clear that the objective of the interviews was to get to the point where they could charge me with IRA membership and thereby link me to the McConville case. The membership charge was clearly their principal goal. The interrogators made no secret of this. At one point the male detective described their plan as "a stage-managed approach". It later transpired that it was a phased strategy, with nine different phases.

The first phases dealt with my family history of republican activism. My own early involvement in Sinn Féin as a teenager – when it was a banned organisation. My time in the 1960s in the civil rights movement and various housing action groups in west Belfast, the pogroms of 1969 and the start of the Troubles.

It was asserted that I was guilty of IRA membership through association because of my family background – my friends. They referred to countless pieces of "open source" material that, they said, linked me to the IRA. These were anonymous newspaper articles from 1971 and 1972, photographs of Martin McGuinness and me at republican funerals, and books about the period.

If any of these claimed I was in the IRA, then that was, according to my interrogators, evidence. They consistently cast up my habit of referring to friends as "comrades". This, they said, was evidence of IRA membership. They claimed I was turned by special branch during interrogations in Belfast's Palace Barracks in 1972 and that I became an MI5 agent! They also spoke about the peace talks in 1972, and my periods of internment and imprisonment in Long Kesh. This was presented as "bad-character evidence".

Much of the interrogations concerned Boston College's so-called Belfast Project conceived by Paul Bew – a university lecturer and a former adviser to the former unionist leader David Trimble – and run by Ed Moloney and Anthony McIntyre.

Both Moloney and McIntyre are opponents of the Sinn Féin leadership and our strategy, and have interviewed former republicans who are also hostile. These former republicans have accused us of betrayal and have said we should be shot because of our support for the Good Friday agreement and policing.

The allegation of conspiracy in the killing of Mrs McConville is based almost exclusively on hearsay from unnamed alleged Boston College interviewees but mainly from the late Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes. Other alleged interviewees were identified only by a letter of the alphabet, eg interviewee R or Y. It has been claimed by prosecutors in court that one of these is Ivor Bell, although the interrogators told me he has denied the allegations.

I rejected all allegations made about me in the Boston tapes, which have now been totally discredited. Historians from the college have made it clear that this "never was a Boston College History Department project". A spokesman for the college has confirmed that it would be prepared to hand back interviews to those involved.

I am innocent of any involvement in the abduction, killing or burial of Mrs McConville, or of IRA membership. I have never disassociated myself from the IRA and I never will, but I am not uncritical of IRA actions and particularly the terrible injustice inflicted on Mrs McConville and her family. I very much regret what happened to them and their mother and understand the antipathy they feel towards republicans.

This case raises in a stark way the need for the legacy issues of the past to be addressed in a victim-centred way. Sinn Féin is committed to dealing with the past, including the issue of victims and their families. We have put forward our own proposals for an independent international truth recovery process, which both governments have rejected. We have also signed up for the compromise proposals presented by US envoys Richard Haass and Meghan O'Sullivan. The two unionist parties and the British government have not.

Sinn Féin is for policing. There is no doubt about this. Civic, accountable, public service policing. It has not been achieved yet.

During my interrogation, no new evidential material, indeed no evidence of any kind, was produced. When I was being released I made a formal complaint about aspects of my interrogation. My arrest and the very serious attempt to charge me with IRA membership is damaging to the peace process and the political institutions.

There is only one way for our society to go, and that is forward. I am a united Irelander. I want to live in a citizen-centred, rights-based society. There is now a peaceful and democratic way to achieve this. The two governments are guarantors of the Good Friday agreement. They have failed in this responsibility. The future belongs to everyone. So, as well as the British and Irish governments, civic society, church leaders, trade unions, the media, academia and private citizens must find a way to provide positive leadership.

The Good Friday agreement is the people's agreement. It does not belong to the elites. It must be defended, implemented and promoted.

Yes, deal with the past. Yes, deal with victims. But the focus needs to be on the future. There will be bumps on that road. There will be diversions. There are powerful vested interests who have not bought into the peace process. Obstacles will be erected, but we must build the peace and see off sinister forces against equality and justice for everyone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
Who are R and Y ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on May 08, 2014, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
Who are R and Y ?
Y? R U interested?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
Who are R and Y ?
think there was 28 people who touted to Boston college,R and Y are two of them.Only the police Bew,Mcintyre and their crew know who they are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
Who are R and Y ?
think there was 28 people who touted to Boston college,R and Y are two of them.Only the police Bew,Mcintyre and their crew know who they are.

28 ??


That's a lot of informants.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 08, 2014, 12:30:42 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
Who are R and Y ?
think there was 28 people who touted to Boston college,R and Y are two of them.Only the police Bew,Mcintyre and their crew know who they are.

28 ??


That's a lot of informants.

Freddie Scappaticci would sort them out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 03:58:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
Who are R and Y ?
think there was 28 people who touted to Boston college,R and Y are two of them.Only the police Bew,Mcintyre and their crew know who they are.

28 ??


That's a lot of informants.

Sure is but the dickheads thought nobody would see them until they were dead,but they were sold a pup :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on May 08, 2014, 04:52:22 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 03:58:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
Who are R and Y ?
think there was 28 people who touted to Boston college,R and Y are two of them.Only the police Bew,Mcintyre and their crew know who they are.

28 ??


That's a lot of informants.

Sure is but the d**kheads thought nobody would see them until they were dead,but they were sold a pup :-[ :-[
You're a great man for the name calling!
Would you be a typical SF canvasser?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 08, 2014, 07:48:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 08, 2014, 10:32:11 AM
Gerry Adams' account of his arrest and interrogation

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/07/jean-mcconville-killing-gerry-adams-innocent-accusers

The Jean McConville killing: I'm completely innocent. But what were my accusers' motives?

Four days of interrogation produced not a scrap of evidence. This was an assault by sinister forces on the peace process itself

My recent detention and interrogation was a serious attempt to bring charges against me. It was conducted by the retrospective major investigation team (Remit) of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, which is based at Carrickfergus, County Antrim.

I had contacted the PSNI in March to tell them I was available to meet them. This followed another intense round of the media speculation that has tried to link me to the killing in 1972 of Jean McConville. It is part of a sustained malicious, untruthful and sinister campaign going back many years.

Last Monday the PSNI said it wanted to speak to me. I was concerned about the timing. Sinn Féin is currently involved in very important EU and local government elections. Notwithstanding this, I travelled to the Antrim serious crime suite where I arrived at 8.05pm.

En route I talked to the senior investigating officer. He was insisting that I meet him in the car park opposite the PSNI barracks. He told me that I must get into a squad car and that he would then arrest me and drive me into the barracks. He said he couldn't arrest me inside the barracks under the legislation.

I told him I was going directly to the station of my own accord, voluntarily. As it turned out there is no legislative bar on me being arrested within the station. And subsequently that's exactly what happened.

My solicitor was present. I was escorted by two detectives from Remit to the serious crime suite. A custody sergeant took me through all of the processes and protocols. My belt, tie, comb, watch, Fáinne and Easter Lily pins were removed. My solicitor made representations that I be allowed to keep my pen and notebook given that the offence that I was accused of occurred 42 years ago. After some toing and froing, I was eventually granted this request by the custody superintendent.

Shortly before the first of 33 taped interviews, I was served with a pre-interview brief. This accused me of IRA membership and conspiracy in the murder of Jean McConville. It also claimed that the PSNI had new evidential material to put to me. The interview commenced at 10.55pm. Two interrogators – a man and a woman – conducted all the interrogations. All of this was recorded and videotaped. My private consultations with my solicitor may also have been covertly recorded.

I was told that the interrogations were an evidence-gathering process, and that the police would be making the case that I was a member of the IRA; that I had a senior IRA managerial role in Belfast at the time of Jean McConville's abduction; and that I was therefore bound to know about her killing. I challenged my interrogators to produce the new evidential material. They said that this would happen at a later interview but they wanted to take me through my childhood, family history and so on. Over the following four days it became clear that the objective of the interviews was to get to the point where they could charge me with IRA membership and thereby link me to the McConville case. The membership charge was clearly their principal goal. The interrogators made no secret of this. At one point the male detective described their plan as "a stage-managed approach". It later transpired that it was a phased strategy, with nine different phases.

The first phases dealt with my family history of republican activism. My own early involvement in Sinn Féin as a teenager – when it was a banned organisation. My time in the 1960s in the civil rights movement and various housing action groups in west Belfast, the pogroms of 1969 and the start of the Troubles.

It was asserted that I was guilty of IRA membership through association because of my family background – my friends. They referred to countless pieces of "open source" material that, they said, linked me to the IRA. These were anonymous newspaper articles from 1971 and 1972, photographs of Martin McGuinness and me at republican funerals, and books about the period.

If any of these claimed I was in the IRA, then that was, according to my interrogators, evidence. They consistently cast up my habit of referring to friends as "comrades". This, they said, was evidence of IRA membership. They claimed I was turned by special branch during interrogations in Belfast's Palace Barracks in 1972 and that I became an MI5 agent! They also spoke about the peace talks in 1972, and my periods of internment and imprisonment in Long Kesh. This was presented as "bad-character evidence".

Much of the interrogations concerned Boston College's so-called Belfast Project conceived by Paul Bew – a university lecturer and a former adviser to the former unionist leader David Trimble – and run by Ed Moloney and Anthony McIntyre.

Both Moloney and McIntyre are opponents of the Sinn Féin leadership and our strategy, and have interviewed former republicans who are also hostile. These former republicans have accused us of betrayal and have said we should be shot because of our support for the Good Friday agreement and policing.

The allegation of conspiracy in the killing of Mrs McConville is based almost exclusively on hearsay from unnamed alleged Boston College interviewees but mainly from the late Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes. Other alleged interviewees were identified only by a letter of the alphabet, eg interviewee R or Y. It has been claimed by prosecutors in court that one of these is Ivor Bell, although the interrogators told me he has denied the allegations.
I rejected all allegations made about me in the Boston tapes, which have now been totally discredited. Historians from the college have made it clear that this "never was a Boston College History Department project". A spokesman for the college has confirmed that it would be prepared to hand back interviews to those involved.

I am innocent of any involvement in the abduction, killing or burial of Mrs McConville, or of IRA membership. I have never disassociated myself from the IRA and I never will, but I am not uncritical of IRA actions and particularly the terrible injustice inflicted on Mrs McConville and her family. I very much regret what happened to them and their mother and understand the antipathy they feel towards republicans.

This case raises in a stark way the need for the legacy issues of the past to be addressed in a victim-centred way. Sinn Féin is committed to dealing with the past, including the issue of victims and their families. We have put forward our own proposals for an independent international truth recovery process, which both governments have rejected. We have also signed up for the compromise proposals presented by US envoys Richard Haass and Meghan O'Sullivan. The two unionist parties and the British government have not.

Sinn Féin is for policing. There is no doubt about this. Civic, accountable, public service policing. It has not been achieved yet.

During my interrogation, no new evidential material, indeed no evidence of any kind, was produced. When I was being released I made a formal complaint about aspects of my interrogation. My arrest and the very serious attempt to charge me with IRA membership is damaging to the peace process and the political institutions.

There is only one way for our society to go, and that is forward. I am a united Irelander. I want to live in a citizen-centred, rights-based society. There is now a peaceful and democratic way to achieve this. The two governments are guarantors of the Good Friday agreement. They have failed in this responsibility. The future belongs to everyone. So, as well as the British and Irish governments, civic society, church leaders, trade unions, the media, academia and private citizens must find a way to provide positive leadership.

The Good Friday agreement is the people's agreement. It does not belong to the elites. It must be defended, implemented and promoted.

Yes, deal with the past. Yes, deal with victims. But the focus needs to be on the future. There will be bumps on that road. There will be diversions. There are powerful vested interests who have not bought into the peace process. Obstacles will be erected, but we must build the peace and see off sinister forces against equality and justice for everyone.
'My private consultations with my solicitor may also have been covertly recorded.' Gerry doesn't provide any reason or evidence for this assertion, he just throws the mud against the wall and hope that some of it sticks.

'I rejected all allegations made about me in the Boston tapes, which have now been totally discredited. Historians from the college have made it clear that this "never was a Boston College History Department project". A spokesman for the college has confirmed that it would be prepared to hand back interviews to those involved.'
Three unconnected statements here, cobbled together in the hope that, taken together, they sound a bit stronger than they actually are.  Statement 1: the allegations have not been totally discredited. Either Gerry is confusing the substance of the interviews with the row about the confidentiality clause in the contracts, or else he is assuming that, because the PSNI were unable to charge him, that automatically discredits any allegations against him. It doesn't. It just means that they can't prove them at this point. Statement 2: this was never 'a Boston College History Department project'. So what? It was still "a bona fide academic exercise of considerable intellectual merit" according to Judge William G. Young. The fact that Boston College is now trying to distance itself and its staff from the project has more to do with the fact that the College has been heavily criticised by other academic institutions in the US for the way it has undermined important research going on in other institutions by its poor management of this project. Statement 3: the fact that the College is prepared to hand back statements means nothing at all, other than that Boston College wishes this whole thing would go away, preferably before the PSNI come calling again with more subpoenas.

This project failed on one issue only, the issue of whether or not the participants should've been promised that their statements would remain with the College until they died. Moloney claims he passed the issue of the legal status of this promise over to Boston College to check, firstly because they were the sponsoring body and secondly because they have their own extensive legal resources. He claims he was given assurances that this had been done and he says he has the emails to prove this. If that proves to be the case, then I know who I blame for the fiasco.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 08:12:34 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2014, 04:52:22 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 03:58:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
Who are R and Y ?
think there was 28 people who touted to Boston college,R and Y are two of them.Only the police Bew,Mcintyre and their crew know who they are.

28 ??


That's a lot of informants.

Sure is but the d**kheads thought nobody would see them until they were dead,but they were sold a pup :-[ :-[
You're a great man for the name calling!
Would you be a typical SF canvasser?

Good God you are easily offended if calling a tout a dickhead annoyed you,sorry.I'am sure you would be aware anyone on a SF canvas is told to behave at all times,even though I am sure there is many a time they feel like letting rip.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 08, 2014, 08:14:34 PM
touts? oh you mean telling the truth about issues in the past the individual in question would have knowledge off. good to know the standard sinn fein supporter living in the past as much as the DUP and Frazier and these lads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 08, 2014, 09:09:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 08, 2014, 08:14:34 PM
touts? oh you mean telling the truth about issues in the past the individual in question would have knowledge off. good to know the standard sinn fein supporter living in the past as much as the DUP and Frazier and these lads.
The same truth that Adams had a hand in killing mrs mcconville?

Myles - thought boston college moved to distance themselves from that project earlier in the week - I only half watched the piece on rte. if so then Maloney is either being a bit economical with his facts - or he was misguidedly clueless about seeming legal sanction
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 08, 2014, 09:59:39 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 08, 2014, 08:14:34 PM
touts? oh you mean telling the truth about issues in the past the individual in question would have knowledge off. good to know the standard sinn fein supporter living in the past as much as the DUP and Frazier and these lads.
So those on the tapes were "telling the truth"? And you know this how?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 08, 2014, 10:25:04 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 08, 2014, 10:32:11 AM
Gerry Adams' account of his arrest and interrogation


I rejected all allegations made about me in the Boston tapes, which have now been totally discredited. Historians from the college have made it clear that this "never was a Boston College History Department project". A spokesman for the college has confirmed that it would be prepared to hand back interviews to those involved.

Totally discredited? How?

From Ed Moloney:
Only one other person aside from myself and Dr McIntyre has read the full archive from beginning to end. That was Judge William Young who presided over the first hearing dealing with Boston College's attempt to get the British subpoenas dismissed at the Federal District Court in Boston in December-January 2011/2012.

This is what he said about the archive: "This was a bona fide academic exercise of considerable intellectual merit."

And he went on: "[These materials] are of interest – valid academic interest. They're of interest to the historian, sociologist, the student of religion, the student of youth movements, academics who are interested in insurgency and counterinsurgency, in terrorism and counterterrorism. They're of interest to those who study the history of religions."


Hardly totally discredited. I don't understand the bit about it not being a Boston College History Dept project either - what difference does that make? And the reference to handing the tapes back to the interviewees - that's to protect them, is it not? I don't see the point he's making.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 08, 2014, 10:43:54 PM
In this instance I can make all sorts of allegations against people and this will only come to light when I pass on.

Thats fantastic....
I can say that Mr X did this
Mrs Y did this

No chance of recriminations or having to answer for it as I'm already brown bread. I can lie how i like and then leave a big pile of poo behind for people I don't like.

Awesome.

However I have no problem telling maguire that i think he's a tool while not beyond the grave....wooooooooooooo!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 08, 2014, 10:58:02 PM
 http://www.irishcentral.com/Federal-Judge-said-BC-tapes-full-of-hearsay-and-folklore.html (http://www.irishcentral.com/Federal-Judge-said-BC-tapes-full-of-hearsay-and-folklore.html)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Harold Disgracey on May 08, 2014, 11:19:02 PM
'My private consultations with my solicitor may also have been covertly recorded.' Gerry doesn't provide any reason or evidence for this assertion, he just throws the mud against the wall and hope that some of it sticks.

A very reasonable accusation. This is common practise in the north, and unlike most of the rest of the world it's legal to do so.

Evidence gathered this way was used to convict Johnny Sandhu http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/lawyer-was-taped-inciting-others-to-murder-taxi-driver-court-told-28479698.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 08, 2014, 11:27:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 08, 2014, 10:58:02 PM
http://www.irishcentral.com/Federal-Judge-said-BC-tapes-full-of-hearsay-and-folklore.html (http://www.irishcentral.com/Federal-Judge-said-BC-tapes-full-of-hearsay-and-folklore.html)
Hmmm... headline doesn't quite match the Judge's quotes

"It is impossible to discern whether these three are commenting from personal knowledge, from hearsay, or are merely repeating local folklore."

He's making reference to 3 specific interviews about a specific incident. Even then, he doesn't say what the title suggests he does. And if that (i.e. the title) was his opinion, it's surely at odds with his summation that "This was a bona fide academic exercise of considerable intellectual merit."

Now i'm not suggesting for a second that everything on those tapes must be 100% true, but neither have they been "totally discredited".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 08, 2014, 11:42:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 08, 2014, 11:27:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 08, 2014, 10:58:02 PM
http://www.irishcentral.com/Federal-Judge-said-BC-tapes-full-of-hearsay-and-folklore.html (http://www.irishcentral.com/Federal-Judge-said-BC-tapes-full-of-hearsay-and-folklore.html)
Hmmm... headline doesn't quite match the Judge's quotes

"It is impossible to discern whether these three are commenting from personal knowledge, from hearsay, or are merely repeating local folklore."

He's making reference to 3 specific interviews about a specific incident. Even then, he doesn't say what the title suggests he does. And if that (i.e. the title) was his opinion, it's surely at odds with his summation that "This was a bona fide academic exercise of considerable intellectual merit."

Now i'm not suggesting for a second that everything on those tapes must be 100% true, but neither have they been "totally discredited".
Relying on tapes, the content of which, by this judge's interpretation, could as easily be "hearsay"or "folklore" as anything, kinda does discredit them as evidence to build a case on. Any wonder Gerry walked.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on May 08, 2014, 11:42:10 PM
I didn't know until Adams got locked up that IrishCentral.com were such mad Shinners.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 08, 2014, 11:58:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 08, 2014, 11:42:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 08, 2014, 11:27:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 08, 2014, 10:58:02 PM
http://www.irishcentral.com/Federal-Judge-said-BC-tapes-full-of-hearsay-and-folklore.html (http://www.irishcentral.com/Federal-Judge-said-BC-tapes-full-of-hearsay-and-folklore.html)
Hmmm... headline doesn't quite match the Judge's quotes

"It is impossible to discern whether these three are commenting from personal knowledge, from hearsay, or are merely repeating local folklore."

He's making reference to 3 specific interviews about a specific incident. Even then, he doesn't say what the title suggests he does. And if that (i.e. the title) was his opinion, it's surely at odds with his summation that "This was a bona fide academic exercise of considerable intellectual merit."

Now i'm not suggesting for a second that everything on those tapes must be 100% true, but neither have they been "totally discredited".
Relying on tapes, the content of which, by this judge's interpretation, could as easily be "hearsay"or "folklore" as anything, kinda does discredit them as evidence to build a case on. Any wonder Gerry walked.
It does indeed. If those 3 interviews were to be the basis of a case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on May 09, 2014, 09:00:22 AM
Bobby Storey's oration on the Falls reminded me of some of thr crap that's been spewed over the road in Woodvale. Very poor PR and surprising as Sinn Fein are usually water tight on these issues.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 09, 2014, 09:24:45 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.

That's a really good analysis of events. The only thing I'd add is that, in fairness to the Shinners *gag*, shutting up shop is impossible in this day and age. Going quiet for four days is not an option as Twitter and the like is going to fill the void, although the dummy-spitting that went on was a long way from being the least-worst option. Anyway, top post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 09:28:10 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 08, 2014, 07:48:47 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 08, 2014, 10:32:11 AM
Gerry Adams' account of his arrest and interrogation

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/07/jean-mcconville-killing-gerry-adams-innocent-accusers

The Jean McConville killing: I'm completely innocent. But what were my accusers' motives?

Four days of interrogation produced not a scrap of evidence. This was an assault by sinister forces on the peace process itself

My recent detention and interrogation was a serious attempt to bring charges against me. It was conducted by the retrospective major investigation team (Remit) of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, which is based at Carrickfergus, County Antrim.

I had contacted the PSNI in March to tell them I was available to meet them. This followed another intense round of the media speculation that has tried to link me to the killing in 1972 of Jean McConville. It is part of a sustained malicious, untruthful and sinister campaign going back many years.

Last Monday the PSNI said it wanted to speak to me. I was concerned about the timing. Sinn Féin is currently involved in very important EU and local government elections. Notwithstanding this, I travelled to the Antrim serious crime suite where I arrived at 8.05pm.

En route I talked to the senior investigating officer. He was insisting that I meet him in the car park opposite the PSNI barracks. He told me that I must get into a squad car and that he would then arrest me and drive me into the barracks. He said he couldn't arrest me inside the barracks under the legislation.

I told him I was going directly to the station of my own accord, voluntarily. As it turned out there is no legislative bar on me being arrested within the station. And subsequently that's exactly what happened.

My solicitor was present. I was escorted by two detectives from Remit to the serious crime suite. A custody sergeant took me through all of the processes and protocols. My belt, tie, comb, watch, Fáinne and Easter Lily pins were removed. My solicitor made representations that I be allowed to keep my pen and notebook given that the offence that I was accused of occurred 42 years ago. After some toing and froing, I was eventually granted this request by the custody superintendent.

Shortly before the first of 33 taped interviews, I was served with a pre-interview brief. This accused me of IRA membership and conspiracy in the murder of Jean McConville. It also claimed that the PSNI had new evidential material to put to me. The interview commenced at 10.55pm. Two interrogators – a man and a woman – conducted all the interrogations. All of this was recorded and videotaped. My private consultations with my solicitor may also have been covertly recorded.

I was told that the interrogations were an evidence-gathering process, and that the police would be making the case that I was a member of the IRA; that I had a senior IRA managerial role in Belfast at the time of Jean McConville's abduction; and that I was therefore bound to know about her killing. I challenged my interrogators to produce the new evidential material. They said that this would happen at a later interview but they wanted to take me through my childhood, family history and so on. Over the following four days it became clear that the objective of the interviews was to get to the point where they could charge me with IRA membership and thereby link me to the McConville case. The membership charge was clearly their principal goal. The interrogators made no secret of this. At one point the male detective described their plan as "a stage-managed approach". It later transpired that it was a phased strategy, with nine different phases.

The first phases dealt with my family history of republican activism. My own early involvement in Sinn Féin as a teenager – when it was a banned organisation. My time in the 1960s in the civil rights movement and various housing action groups in west Belfast, the pogroms of 1969 and the start of the Troubles.

It was asserted that I was guilty of IRA membership through association because of my family background – my friends. They referred to countless pieces of "open source" material that, they said, linked me to the IRA. These were anonymous newspaper articles from 1971 and 1972, photographs of Martin McGuinness and me at republican funerals, and books about the period.

If any of these claimed I was in the IRA, then that was, according to my interrogators, evidence. They consistently cast up my habit of referring to friends as "comrades". This, they said, was evidence of IRA membership. They claimed I was turned by special branch during interrogations in Belfast's Palace Barracks in 1972 and that I became an MI5 agent! They also spoke about the peace talks in 1972, and my periods of internment and imprisonment in Long Kesh. This was presented as "bad-character evidence".

Much of the interrogations concerned Boston College's so-called Belfast Project conceived by Paul Bew – a university lecturer and a former adviser to the former unionist leader David Trimble – and run by Ed Moloney and Anthony McIntyre.

Both Moloney and McIntyre are opponents of the Sinn Féin leadership and our strategy, and have interviewed former republicans who are also hostile. These former republicans have accused us of betrayal and have said we should be shot because of our support for the Good Friday agreement and policing.

The allegation of conspiracy in the killing of Mrs McConville is based almost exclusively on hearsay from unnamed alleged Boston College interviewees but mainly from the late Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes. Other alleged interviewees were identified only by a letter of the alphabet, eg interviewee R or Y. It has been claimed by prosecutors in court that one of these is Ivor Bell, although the interrogators told me he has denied the allegations.
I rejected all allegations made about me in the Boston tapes, which have now been totally discredited. Historians from the college have made it clear that this "never was a Boston College History Department project". A spokesman for the college has confirmed that it would be prepared to hand back interviews to those involved.

I am innocent of any involvement in the abduction, killing or burial of Mrs McConville, or of IRA membership. I have never disassociated myself from the IRA and I never will, but I am not uncritical of IRA actions and particularly the terrible injustice inflicted on Mrs McConville and her family. I very much regret what happened to them and their mother and understand the antipathy they feel towards republicans.

This case raises in a stark way the need for the legacy issues of the past to be addressed in a victim-centred way. Sinn Féin is committed to dealing with the past, including the issue of victims and their families. We have put forward our own proposals for an independent international truth recovery process, which both governments have rejected. We have also signed up for the compromise proposals presented by US envoys Richard Haass and Meghan O'Sullivan. The two unionist parties and the British government have not.

Sinn Féin is for policing. There is no doubt about this. Civic, accountable, public service policing. It has not been achieved yet.

During my interrogation, no new evidential material, indeed no evidence of any kind, was produced. When I was being released I made a formal complaint about aspects of my interrogation. My arrest and the very serious attempt to charge me with IRA membership is damaging to the peace process and the political institutions.

There is only one way for our society to go, and that is forward. I am a united Irelander. I want to live in a citizen-centred, rights-based society. There is now a peaceful and democratic way to achieve this. The two governments are guarantors of the Good Friday agreement. They have failed in this responsibility. The future belongs to everyone. So, as well as the British and Irish governments, civic society, church leaders, trade unions, the media, academia and private citizens must find a way to provide positive leadership.

The Good Friday agreement is the people's agreement. It does not belong to the elites. It must be defended, implemented and promoted.

Yes, deal with the past. Yes, deal with victims. But the focus needs to be on the future. There will be bumps on that road. There will be diversions. There are powerful vested interests who have not bought into the peace process. Obstacles will be erected, but we must build the peace and see off sinister forces against equality and justice for everyone.
'My private consultations with my solicitor may also have been covertly recorded.' Gerry doesn't provide any reason or evidence for this assertion, he just throws the mud against the wall and hope that some of it sticks.

'I rejected all allegations made about me in the Boston tapes, which have now been totally discredited. Historians from the college have made it clear that this "never was a Boston College History Department project". A spokesman for the college has confirmed that it would be prepared to hand back interviews to those involved.'
Three unconnected statements here, cobbled together in the hope that, taken together, they sound a bit stronger than they actually are.  Statement 1: the allegations have not been totally discredited. Either Gerry is confusing the substance of the interviews with the row about the confidentiality clause in the contracts, or else he is assuming that, because the PSNI were unable to charge him, that automatically discredits any allegations against him. It doesn't. It just means that they can't prove them at this point. Statement 2: this was never 'a Boston College History Department project'. So what? It was still "a bona fide academic exercise of considerable intellectual merit" according to Judge William G. Young. The fact that Boston College is now trying to distance itself and its staff from the project has more to do with the fact that the College has been heavily criticised by other academic institutions in the US for the way it has undermined important research going on in other institutions by its poor management of this project. Statement 3: the fact that the College is prepared to hand back statements means nothing at all, other than that Boston College wishes this whole thing would go away, preferably before the PSNI come calling again with more subpoenas.

This project failed on one issue only, the issue of whether or not the participants should've been promised that their statements would remain with the College until they died. Moloney claims he passed the issue of the legal status of this promise over to Boston College to check, firstly because they were the sponsoring body and secondly because they have their own extensive legal resources. He claims he was given assurances that this had been done and he says he has the emails to prove this. If that proves to be the case, then I know who I blame for the fiasco.
The Police told his solicitor that they couldn't give assurances that they wouldn't be taped. His solicitor confirmed this to an Irish News reporter. Is the Solicitor no complicit in what you perceive as Adam's mud slinging?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 09:39:47 AM
Very assured performance from Conor Murphy on Nolan the other evening. But is Gregory Campbell the best that the DUP had available.
Dolly from the Stoops was floundering, muttering in the background when others were speaking, very unprofessional. As for Nesbitt...well...Murhy and Gerry Kelly have handled the Adams situation well unlike Marty and Bobby.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.

Very quiet for the past fortnight Dixie,is this the best you can come up with to defend the bunch of touts that you support and quote at every opportunity.Catch a grip your chum McIntyre has been shown up for what he is.His get Gerry campaign has backfired on him,Ivor Bell and all the others who thought by touting it would bring down Adams and SF but instead they have put themselves in the Dock.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on May 09, 2014, 10:43:27 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 08:12:34 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2014, 04:52:22 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 03:58:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 08, 2014, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 08, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
Who are R and Y ?
think there was 28 people who touted to Boston college,R and Y are two of them.Only the police Bew,Mcintyre and their crew know who they are.

28 ??


That's a lot of informants.

Sure is but the d**kheads thought nobody would see them until they were dead,but they were sold a pup :-[ :-[
You're a great man for the name calling!
Would you be a typical SF canvasser?

Good God you are easily offended if calling a tout a d**khead annoyed you,sorry.I'am sure you would be aware anyone on a SF canvas is told to behave at all times,even though I am sure there is many a time they feel like letting rip.
Jayz, nothing in my comments would suggest I was offended!
Very amused at your postings/name-callings as an SF representative.

It is also interesting to know the SF canvassers have been instructed to behave and told to not let rip during the many times that they feel like it. Householders can breath a sigh a relief!

I wonder how many other parties need to instruct their canvasers to behave themselves?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 11:52:44 AM
If SF want to attract the middleclass nationalist vote, they will need to stop pandering to the baser elements within their immediate working class support. That means temperate language and none of the crass remarks a la Bobby Storey. They need also to reign in on the monkey see monkey do mimicry of loyalist parades and commemorations.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 09, 2014, 01:09:42 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.

Lol, You may wish that to be the case, but I'd say you know yourself that it isn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on May 09, 2014, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 11:52:44 AM
If SF want to attract the middleclass nationalist vote, they will need to stop pandering to the baser elements within their immediate working class support. That means temperate language and none of the crass remarks a la Bobby Storey. They need also to reign in on the monkey see monkey do mimicry of loyalist parades and commemorations.

That Bobby Storey thing was ridiculous and was just handing the Unionists a rod to beat SF with. As was said before I thought they were smarter than that!

Still not sure about the Boston Tapes thing. Did McIntyre and Moloney do it to nail Adams and others? I don't think so. Surely there are easier ways to do that. Yes the tapes are an account as to what happened but are they signed as sworn testimony? Are they admissible in a court of law? I doubt it in which case it's all a big sideshow by the PSNI.

SF should have known the PSNI had nothing concrete on Adams and he'd be released without charge. McGuinness' saying they would rethink the support for the police was not a good idea. He should have waited until Adams was out and then lambasted the shite out of them and taken it to the Ombudsman for an impartial verdict on the whole thing.

Everyone and their mother knows it's a DUP publicity stunt before an election because they're worried about the Nutters going to the TUV and UKIP... I expect the election to be quite the success for Sinn Fein due to the Unionists splitting their vote too much now. I think the DUP are definitely going to take a hit!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on May 09, 2014, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 02:16:07 PM
i agree screen that DUP will take a hit but i think SF will take a bigger hit,SF got alot of support due to the SDLP being totally incompetent and also trying to oust bigots like mccrea from mid ulster but with politics here becoming more "normal" people are starting to see through SF.They are single handly destroying our education system and the real thing that sticks in my throat about SF is if you dare to speak against them you are a "dissendent".

I agree but I think the SDLP are still clean useless so I can't see where SF are going to lose some of their vote unless people are that apathetic now that they just don't turn out!

I've yet to look at anybody in NI Politics who I would say "Yeah that's a serious operator who will work hard for me I want to pick him!". Probably had I been at voting age at the time Hume but other than that the rest are a crowd of fcukwits.

Let's vote for SF for Westminster so that they don't even go! What the fcuk is the point in that?!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 02:25:47 PM
c**k, there is no alternative for Nationalists in the North. The SDLP are still in disarray. Al and Dolly can't stand one another and Attwood is sulking in the wings. They have no ideas and no leadership. It is widely recognised that O'Dowd and Poots are perhaps the best performing ministers in Departments that are riven with problems. What is destroying the education system is unionism's inability to compromise and an unwillingness to see change through.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 09, 2014, 02:37:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 11:52:44 AM
If SF want to attract the middleclass nationalist vote, they will need to stop pandering to the baser elements within their immediate working class support. That means temperate language and none of the crass remarks a la Bobby Storey. They need also to reign in on the monkey see monkey do mimicry of loyalist parades and commemorations.

(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130112181332/glee/images/b/b2/Yes%2Bsir%2BD%2Bthis%2Bgif%2Bwas%2Bgolden%2B_483d2e3ead21878f296690ac04d468c4.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 09, 2014, 02:43:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 09, 2014, 10:43:27 AM
It is also interesting to know the SF canvassers have been instructed to behave and told to not let rip during the many times that they feel like it. Householders can breath a sigh a relief!

I wonder how many other parties need to instruct their canvasers to behave themselves?

I'd assume every party that is involved in canvassing.

For example, the main government party...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhqGE7Kq1M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhqGE7Kq1M)
"Be polite"
"Don't take shortcuts over people's hedges"
"Don't ever get involved in an argument"
"Engage in a non-confrontational manner"

As do their coalition partners in the Labour party, but their guide isn't available online.

Fianna Fáil do too...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/48360481/Fianna-Fail-Canvassers-Guide (http://www.scribd.com/doc/48360481/Fianna-Fail-Canvassers-Guide)
"Be courteous and polite at all times"
"don't get intoarguments with voters about issues."

As does the DUP...
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/dup-s-election-canvassing-guidelines-in-full-1-6026453 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/dup-s-election-canvassing-guidelines-in-full-1-6026453)
"Never raise your voice to a voter"

etc etc etc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 09, 2014, 02:44:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 02:25:47 PM
The SDLP are still in disarray. Al and Dolly can't stand one another
They both have a point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 03:00:17 PM
where my post go?have SF control over this board as well?

Anyway its not unionism destroying the education system (although im not sure they would do much better),my local primary school were told they had not enough pupils to sustain it,but in the nxt couple of years they were way over the number required so the school went looking extra funding for the increased numbers,guess what they were turned down flat and the school had to turn away pupils,go figure that one...yet if myself and my wife were umemployed claiming benifits,polish or traveller our child would get in!!!we had to send our child 8 mile away to play school when our local primary is 1.2 mile from our front door!!
SF shouted for years that unionism had no alternative to sunningdale and the anglo irish agreement yet they go and scrap the 11+ which in theory i have no problem with but what have they put in place to replace this?nothing and inturn created a system which will turn out just like england where there will be private and public schooling.Then they come up with the bright idea to cut school funding to give it to areas of need!!so basically my chid does not have the same needs as a child who lives in a deprived area!!
SF idea of socialism is a hell of alot different from my idea
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 03:12:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 09, 2014, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 02:16:07 PM
i agree screen that DUP will take a hit but i think SF will take a bigger hit,SF got alot of support due to the SDLP being totally incompetent and also trying to oust bigots like mccrea from mid ulster but with politics here becoming more "normal" people are starting to see through SF.They are single handly destroying our education system and the real thing that sticks in my throat about SF is if you dare to speak against them you are a "dissendent".

I agree but I think the SDLP are still clean useless so I can't see where SF are going to lose some of their vote unless people are that apathetic now that they just don't turn out!

I've yet to look at anybody in NI Politics who I would say "Yeah that's a serious operator who will work hard for me I want to pick him!". Probably had I been at voting age at the time Hume but other than that the rest are a crowd of fcukwits.

Let's vote for SF for Westminster so that they don't even go! What the fcuk is the point in that?!

Thats exactly what i can see happening,unfortuately there arent many options if you dont agree with SF policies


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 03:00:17 PM
where my post go?have SF control over this board as well?

Anyway its not unionism destroying the education system (although im not sure they would do much better),my local primary school were told they had not enough pupils to sustain it,but in the nxt couple of years they were way over the number required so the school went looking extra funding for the increased numbers,guess what they were turned down flat and the school had to turn away pupils,go figure that one...yet if myself and my wife were umemployed claiming benifits,polish or traveller our child would get in!!!we had to send our child 8 mile away to play school when our local primary is 1.2 mile from our front door!!
SF shouted for years that unionism had no alternative to sunningdale and the anglo irish agreement yet they go and scrap the 11+ which in theory i have no problem with but what have they put in place to replace this?nothing and inturn created a system which will turn out just like england where there will be private and public schooling.Then they come up with the bright idea to cut school funding to give it to areas of need!!so basically my chid does not have the same needs as a child who lives in a deprived area!!
SF idea of socialism is a hell of alot different from my idea
Listen, you need to go research this topic thoroughly rather than base it on your experience with one school. Look at the position of all the educationalists, they support SF's position. A large part of the problem is the plethora of education boards inefficiently using resources. The decisions on funding schools would not be the ministers direct responsibility but that of your ELB. Your argument seems to be based on a dislike of SF rather than logic. And before you accuse me, I have a record on here of calling SF out when it's needed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 03:00:17 PM
where my post go?have SF control over this board as well?

Anyway its not unionism destroying the education system (although im not sure they would do much better),my local primary school were told they had not enough pupils to sustain it,but in the nxt couple of years they were way over the number required so the school went looking extra funding for the increased numbers,guess what they were turned down flat and the school had to turn away pupils,go figure that one...yet if myself and my wife were umemployed claiming benifits,polish or traveller our child would get in!!!we had to send our child 8 mile away to play school when our local primary is 1.2 mile from our front door!!
SF shouted for years that unionism had no alternative to sunningdale and the anglo irish agreement yet they go and scrap the 11+ which in theory i have no problem with but what have they put in place to replace this?nothing and inturn created a system which will turn out just like england where there will be private and public schooling.Then they come up with the bright idea to cut school funding to give it to areas of need!!so basically my chid does not have the same needs as a child who lives in a deprived area!!
SF idea of socialism is a hell of alot different from my idea
Listen, you need to go research this topic thoroughly rather than base it on your experience with one school. Look at the position of all the educationalists, they support SF's position. A large part of the problem is the plethora of education boards inefficiently using resources. The decisions on funding schools would not be the ministers direct responsibility but that of your ELB. Your argument seems to be based on a dislike of SF rather than logic. And before you accuse me, I have a record on here of calling SF out when it's needed.

I have absolutly no dislike to SF whatsoever i just dont agree with alot of there policies,yes there are one or two individuals i just cant warm to but thats the case with all parties.
i am not basing my views on just my own experience,did SF not say they would be cutting funding to all schools outside as they say it "deprived" areas?and ELB only control the funding in which the SF minister give them!you say educationalists support SF position,well for everyone you find that do i can provide you one that doesnt,my family are heavily involved in education so i am listening to them everyday and i can tell you they certainly do not agree with SF policy on education,and one family member who teaches in a so called deprived school told me they had money left from there budget this year so they spent it on a mini bus which they did not even need yet SF want to give them more money!!just doesnt make sense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 09, 2014, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 03:00:17 PM
where my post go?have SF control over this board as well?

Anyway its not unionism destroying the education system (although im not sure they would do much better),my local primary school were told they had not enough pupils to sustain it,but in the nxt couple of years they were way over the number required so the school went looking extra funding for the increased numbers,guess what they were turned down flat and the school had to turn away pupils,go figure that one...yet if myself and my wife were umemployed claiming benifits,polish or traveller our child would get in!!!we had to send our child 8 mile away to play school when our local primary is 1.2 mile from our front door!!
SF shouted for years that unionism had no alternative to sunningdale and the anglo irish agreement yet they go and scrap the 11+ which in theory i have no problem with but what have they put in place to replace this?nothing and inturn created a system which will turn out just like england where there will be private and public schooling.Then they come up with the bright idea to cut school funding to give it to areas of need!!so basically my chid does not have the same needs as a child who lives in a deprived area!!
SF idea of socialism is a hell of alot different from my idea
Listen, you need to go research this topic thoroughly rather than base it on your experience with one school. Look at the position of all the educationalists, they support SF's position. A large part of the problem is the plethora of education boards inefficiently using resources. The decisions on funding schools would not be the ministers direct responsibility but that of your ELB. Your argument seems to be based on a dislike of SF rather than logic. And before you accuse me, I have a record on here of calling SF out when it's needed.

I have absolutly no dislike to SF whatsoever i just dont agree with alot of there policies,yes there are one or two individuals i just cant warm to but thats the case with all parties.
i am not basing my views on just my own experience,did SF not say they would be cutting funding to all schools outside as they say it "deprived" areas?and ELB only control the funding in which the SF minister give them!you say educationalists support SF position,well for everyone you find that do i can provide you one that doesnt,my family are heavily involved in education so i am listening to them everyday and i can tell you they certainly do not agree with SF policy on education,and one family member who teaches in a so called deprived school told me they had money left from there budget this year so they spent it on a mini bus which they did not even need yet SF want to give them more money!!just doesnt make sense.
As I stated your reasoning seems confused, SF do not control the ELB's, the SF minister sets policy within the Department which then filters down. No way O'Dowd can be personally responsible for every crisis in just the same way Poots is not personally responsible for every crisis in A&E. Outside of the Grammar sector I have not heard one teacher or educationalist who supports the idea of the 11+.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: cockahoop on May 09, 2014, 04:18:38 PM
its more than Just the 11+,anyway i dont think we agree on whos running the education system so we will just leave it at that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 09, 2014, 01:09:42 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.

Lol, You may wish that to be the case, but I'd say you know yourself that it isn't.
It won't have affected their core support, obviously not, but SF's handling of this whole affair, the dummy-spitting and threats, has alienated a whole lot of people who were starting to think that SF were maturing as a political party, that maybe it was time to set aside long-held perceptions and to give them a chance. Those people - and I'm one - are now heading straight back to the SDLP or the Alliance Party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 09, 2014, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:18:11 PM
SF's handling of this whole affair, the dummy-spitting and threats, has alienated a whole lot of people who were starting to think that SF were maturing as a political party
Evidence?

Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:18:11 PM
Those people - and I'm one - are now heading straight back to the SDLP or the Alliance Party.

Hate to repeat myself here, but...

(http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.13870769.0569/sticker,375x360.png)
(http://www.donttreadonusblog.com/uploads/1/7/7/0/17701085/811820405.jpg?628)

Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 13, 2013, 05:08:51 PM
SF and the IRA are a bunch of w**kers. Most of the island believes that to be the case.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 12, 2013, 08:27:32 PM
Irishmen and women will never allow republicans to take ownership of this country. The sight of Kelly walking down the road with a bunch of clowns dressed in dark sunglasses and berets, was a reminder of just why the man is unfit to run a bath, never mind a country. One day northern unionists will cotton on to the fact that the best way of sidelining w**kers like Adams and Kelly is to have an all Ireland parliament based in Dublin.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 04, 2013, 07:13:19 PM
What I find most sickening is that this arch bigot is being facilitated in his efforts to reintroduce gerrymandering in a different guise by the cooperation of Sinn Fein.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 11, 2010, 10:21:37 PM
Why Sinn Fein Are A Bunch of Hypocrites

1. Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, SF recognised and signed up to what they had previously derided as the 'unionist veto'. It was rebranded as the consent of the people of the north to spare their blushes. As an SDLP supporter I've always supported the consent principle. Republicans used to brand people like me as subservient for doing so.

2. Under the same Agreement, SF agreed to enter the Stormont Assembly and take part in the administration of British Rule in Ireland. Indeed, their burning ambition now is to hold the post of First Minister in this Assembly. As an SDLP supporter I've no problem with a local Assembly. However, republicans used to brand people like me as west Brits for holding such a view.

3. SF supported the right of every Irishman and woman to take up arms against the British 'occupation'. 'Ireland unfree will never be at peace', etc etc. SF now consider the so called republicans dissidents as 'traitors' to Ireland for doing so. Only Gerry and Marty, apparently, have the right to declare war.

4. SF preach equality for all and the rights of women, yet they deny justice to women who've been abused or raped by leading republicans.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 04, 2013, 06:23:11 PM
It's about the Shinners trying to rewrite history by seeking to normalise the deeds and atrocities carried out by the IRA.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 04, 2011, 06:00:35 PM
republicans are trying to rewrite history and steal the laurels that rightly belong to others. Shameful, but typical.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 07, 2010, 07:42:53 PM
I'm only interested in impartial sources, not propaganda crap from the Shinners.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 17, 2011, 10:36:38 PM
Let's find out exactly what part Gerry Adams played in the abduction and murder of a mother of 10.
(Questioned, and released without charge)

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 15, 2011, 10:21:33 PM
typical Shinner shite, to be honest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:36:49 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 09, 2014, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:18:11 PM
SF's handling of this whole affair, the dummy-spitting and threats, has alienated a whole lot of people who were starting to think that SF were maturing as a political party
Evidence?

Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:18:11 PM
Those people - and I'm one - are now heading straight back to the SDLP or the Alliance Party.

Hate to repeat myself here, but...

(http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.13870769.0569/sticker,375x360.png)
(http://www.donttreadonusblog.com/uploads/1/7/7/0/17701085/811820405.jpg?628)

Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 13, 2013, 05:08:51 PM
SF and the IRA are a bunch of w**kers. Most of the island believes that to be the case.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 12, 2013, 08:27:32 PM
Irishmen and women will never allow republicans to take ownership of this country. The sight of Kelly walking down the road with a bunch of clowns dressed in dark sunglasses and berets, was a reminder of just why the man is unfit to run a bath, never mind a country. One day northern unionists will cotton on to the fact that the best way of sidelining w**kers like Adams and Kelly is to have an all Ireland parliament based in Dublin.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 04, 2013, 07:13:19 PM
What I find most sickening is that this arch bigot is being facilitated in his efforts to reintroduce gerrymandering in a different guise by the cooperation of Sinn Fein.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 11, 2010, 10:21:37 PM
Why Sinn Fein Are A Bunch of Hypocrites

1. Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, SF recognised and signed up to what they had previously derided as the 'unionist veto'. It was rebranded as the consent of the people of the north to spare their blushes. As an SDLP supporter I've always supported the consent principle. Republicans used to brand people like me as subservient for doing so.

2. Under the same Agreement, SF agreed to enter the Stormont Assembly and take part in the administration of British Rule in Ireland. Indeed, their burning ambition now is to hold the post of First Minister in this Assembly. As an SDLP supporter I've no problem with a local Assembly. However, republicans used to brand people like me as west Brits for holding such a view.

3. SF supported the right of every Irishman and woman to take up arms against the British 'occupation'. 'Ireland unfree will never be at peace', etc etc. SF now consider the so called republicans dissidents as 'traitors' to Ireland for doing so. Only Gerry and Marty, apparently, have the right to declare war.

4. SF preach equality for all and the rights of women, yet they deny justice to women who've been abused or raped by leading republicans.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 04, 2013, 06:23:11 PM
It's about the Shinners trying to rewrite history by seeking to normalise the deeds and atrocities carried out by the IRA.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 04, 2011, 06:00:35 PM
republicans are trying to rewrite history and steal the laurels that rightly belong to others. Shameful, but typical.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 07, 2010, 07:42:53 PM
I'm only interested in impartial sources, not propaganda crap from the Shinners.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 17, 2011, 10:36:38 PM
Let's find out exactly what part Gerry Adams played in the abduction and murder of a mother of 10.
(Questioned, and released without charge)

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 15, 2011, 10:21:33 PM
typical Shinner shite, to be honest.
Could you not find anything more recent than 9 months ago? I'm sure you looked hard enough.  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 09, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:18:11 PM
Those people - and I'm one - are now heading straight back to the SDLP or the Alliance Party.

somehow doubt you ever voted Sinn Fein before.

The SDUUPAlliance in the next election might suit you.




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 09, 2014, 05:42:07 PM
Gerry got out last Sunday after 3/4 days of SF reps coming out with stuff like " we'll have to review our support for policing" and accusations and allegations about the arrest being politically motivated etc etc.
Looking back now SF reps ( and others too ) will be sitting down to their Friday night fish supper and wondering what exactly the hullabaloo was all about and why SF reps protested publicly so much instead of keepng their counsel and saying little if anything.

So - almost a week later - what was it that led Martin and Gerry ( Kelly ) and others lead a public outcry ?. - I wouldn't call it throwing the toys out of the pram as some here have - rather it was a bit of a strop - a threat to spit the dummy out.

Was it that SF thought that the cops were just at their usual old shite and the "cabal" were out to get Gerry and SF and it was therefore time to stand on their toes and say to the cops and everybody else that enough was enough ?

Was it cos SF WERE concerned that the cops might charge Gerry with whatever and that it would end Gerry and seriously damage SF so best way to deal with it is huff and puff ?.

On reflection, it seemed that SF were very nervous indeed, fearful that the cops might have pinned something on Gerry.

Whay would have happened if Gerry had have been charged ?. Would DUP have walked ?


So many questions - not many answers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:18:11 PM
Those people - and I'm one - are now heading straight back to the SDLP or the Alliance Party.

somehow doubt you ever voted Sinn Fein before.

The SDUUPAlliance in the next election might suit you.
I've never voted SF in my life. I think you've missed the point a bit with this one.  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 09, 2014, 05:55:26 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:36:49 PM
Could you not find anything more recent than 9 months ago? I'm sure you looked hard enough.  ;)

Of course I can. In December, you called them "w**kers with a capital W". Some turnaround to go from that to potential voter in the space of 5 months! What did SF do since December that brought about such a monumental shift in position then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 09, 2014, 05:57:53 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:48:12 PM
I've never voted SF in my life. I think you've missed the point a bit with this one.  :)

Thats not what your post said....you better re-read it. For a minute there it seemed like you were a subscriber to An Phoblacht.

Back to the TUV with you.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 06:17:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 09, 2014, 05:55:26 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:36:49 PM
Could you not find anything more recent than 9 months ago? I'm sure you looked hard enough.  ;)

Of course I can. In December, you called them "w**kers with a capital W". Some turnaround to go from that to potential voter in the space of 5 months! What did SF do since December that brought about such a monumental shift in position then?
I've answered that in posts 2296 and 2350. I'm surprised you haven't come across them in your trawl through my collected works.  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 06:21:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 09, 2014, 05:57:53 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:48:12 PM
I've never voted SF in my life. I think you've missed the point a bit with this one.  :)

Thats not what your post said....you better re-read it. For a minute there it seemed like you were a subscriber to An Phoblacht.

Back to the TUV with you.
That post didn't say I've never never voted SF in my life, but I think it did make clear that I wasn't a traditional SF voter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.

Very quiet for the past fortnight Dixie,is this the best you can come up with to defend the bunch of touts that you support and quote at every opportunity.Catch a grip your chum McIntyre has been shown up for what he is.His get Gerry campaign has backfired on him,Ivor Bell and all the others who thought by touting it would bring down Adams and SF but instead they have put themselves in the Dock.

Glens, as a general rule I refuse to reply to people who continually hurl personal insults at me. Tyrones Own and Balldbeaver fell into that category, and for a good while so have you. However, on this occasion I will reply to you and ask you to produce evidence of where I quote Anthony McIntyre. Please show me the evidence. You say I defend a bunch of touts. Show me where I defend people like Scappaticci , Donaldson or Adams personal driver McShane?

You continually use the term touts yet you defend Martin McGuinness who has openly called on several occasions for people to tout on what they know to the police. Do you remember him standing on the steps of Stormont shoulder to shoulder with Hugh Orde calling on Irish nationalists and republicans to tout to the police? Gerry Adams did what the PSNI couldn't do and that was to positively identify Ivor Bell from the tapes. Did this make Gerry a tout? Obviously the PSNI think he was a tout as they claimed he worked for MI5 from 1974 during questioning. The PSNI, who Sinn Fein fully support, spend nearly £500,000 a year on touts. Sinn Fein have no problem supporting touts when it suits them, only don't tout on them.


You claim McIntyre has a "Get Gerry" campaign. A while back when Suzanne Breen was reporting on how Gerry covered up child abuse you and others claimed it was a "Get Gerry" campaign. Sinn Fein even invented a new phrase into the mix when they claimed "Dissident Journalists" were out to get him.

However, when the truth emerged we not only found out that he covered up for his brother and went on TV and lied about it, but he reported Aine's mother to social services over a dirty house. Any decent human would have reported the abuse. The claims of a "Get Gerry" campaign soon fizzled out until it was resurrected to tarnish the Boston project.

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As I have said previously, there are 28 former IRA men who have recorded details of their time in the IRA. Only snippets of a couple of those tapes have come to light. What evidence do you or Sinn Fein have to say that they are all anti Sinn Fein and a project designed to "Get Gerry"? Would you buy a double CD of 28 songs, listen to a few clips of 2 songs, then claim that the whole album is shite?

In the Sinn Fein book shop there are books by Ernie O'Malley. Do you know who he is? In case you don't, Ernie travelled the length and breadth of Ireland and interviewed former IRA volunteers who fought between 1916 to 1923. He interviewed 500 men and women and recorded their version of what happened, and what they did during that time. Those interviews are now available and are a valuable resource for generations to come who will study that time in history. Despite what you or Sinn Fein think, the accounts of those 28 men and women recorded for the Boston project should be afforded the same respect.

A couple of times you have posted on the Liverpool thread throwing up Caterpillar at me in a condescending way. May I remind you that Sinn Fein ignored a democratic vote among its members to boycott Caterpillar and not only endorsed a $2 million grant to them a few weeks after they dumped 920 people on the dole just before Christmas, but Martin McGuinness travelled to their factory and spoke highly about them. In that same factory, Caterpillar build the weapons of mass destruction that have demolished nearly 30,000 Palestinian homes. They are also a tax dodger who have set up shop in Switzerland in order to avoid paying tax here. Somehow you think all that is funny enough to have a go at me on the Liverpool thread.

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.

Now, go find me all those articles by Anthony McIntyre that you claim I posted. Lets see how many you can come up with?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.

Very quiet for the past fortnight Dixie,is this the best you can come up with to defend the bunch of touts that you support and quote at every opportunity.Catch a grip your chum McIntyre has been shown up for what he is.His get Gerry campaign has backfired on him,Ivor Bell and all the others who thought by touting it would bring down Adams and SF but instead they have put themselves in the Dock.

Glens, as a general rule I refuse to reply to people who continually hurl personal insults at me. Tyrones Own and Balldbeaver fell into that category, and for a good while so have you. However, on this occasion I will reply to you and ask you to produce evidence of where I quote Anthony McIntyre. Please show me the evidence. You say I defend a bunch of touts. Show me where I defend people like Scappaticci , Donaldson or Adams personal driver McShane?

You continually use the term touts yet you defend Martin McGuinness who has openly called on several occasions for people to tout on what they know to the police. Do you remember him standing on the steps of Stormont shoulder to shoulder with Hugh Orde calling on Irish nationalists and republicans to tout to the police? Gerry Adams did what the PSNI couldn't do and that was to positively identify Ivor Bell from the tapes. Did this make Gerry a tout? Obviously the PSNI think he was a tout as they claimed he worked for MI5 from 1974 during questioning. The PSNI, who Sinn Fein fully support, spend nearly £500,000 a year on touts. Sinn Fein have no problem supporting touts when it suits them, only don't tout on them.


You claim McIntyre has a "Get Gerry" campaign. A while back when Suzanne Breen was reporting on how Gerry covered up child abuse you and others claimed it was a "Get Gerry" campaign. Sinn Fein even invented a new phrase into the mix when they claimed "Dissident Journalists" were out to get him.

However, when the truth emerged we not only found out that he covered up for his brother and went on TV and lied about it, but he reported Aine's mother to social services over a dirty house. Any decent human would have reported the abuse. The claims of a "Get Gerry" campaign soon fizzled out until it was resurrected to tarnish the Boston project.

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As I have said previously, there are 28 former IRA men who have recorded details of their time in the IRA. Only snippets of a couple of those tapes have come to light. What evidence do you or Sinn Fein have to say that they are all anti Sinn Fein and a project designed to "Get Gerry"? Would you buy a double CD of 28 songs, listen to a few clips of 2 songs, then claim that the whole album is shite?

In the Sinn Fein book shop there are books by Ernie O'Malley. Do you know who he is? In case you don't, Ernie travelled the length and breadth of Ireland and interviewed former IRA volunteers who fought between 1916 to 1923. He interviewed 500 men and women and recorded their version of what happened, and what they did during that time. Those interviews are now available and are a valuable resource for generations to come who will study that time in history. Despite what you or Sinn Fein think, the accounts of those 28 men and women recorded for the Boston project should be afforded the same respect.

A couple of times you have posted on the Liverpool thread throwing up Caterpillar at me in a condescending way. May I remind you that Sinn Fein ignored a democratic vote among its members to boycott Caterpillar and not only endorsed a $2 million grant to them a few weeks after they dumped 920 people on the dole just before Christmas, but Martin McGuinness travelled to their factory and spoke highly about them. In that same factory, Caterpillar build the weapons of mass destruction that have demolished nearly 30,000 Palestinian homes. They are also a tax dodger who have set up shop in Switzerland in order to avoid paying tax here. Somehow you think all that is funny enough to have a go at me on the Liverpool thread.

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.

Now, go find me all those articles by Anthony McIntyre that you claim I posted. Lets see how many you can come up with?

Dixie go look at the times you copy and paste from "The Pensive Quill" are you trying to say you don't know that this is more of McIntyres handywork,a rag that has been attacking Adams and the SF leadership in much harsher terms than anything I have ever used on this forum to attack you and your ilk.Think this diatribe you have just posted show you are keeping good company.If you believe that Martin McGuinness wanting those who murdered a young Gael who joined the PSNI believing he was trying to bring about a new beginning to policing in the North to be brought to justice is the same as a crowd of twisted old men and women conspiring to tout on former comrades and get handfuls of money,well good luck to you all.I would have more respect for young Ronan Kerr than your crowd.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 09:48:37 PM
Dixie read this and tell again that you are keeping the company of great Republicans.

Though we didn't know it at the time, the instigation of the Boston College oral history project signalled the launch of the GAL – the Get Adams League


Paul Bew - In 2002 he referred to Gerry Adams as smelling like "rotten cabbage".

Up until a few days ago very few of the reports regarding the interview tapes of ex IRA members that led to the arrest of Gerry Adams, carried a mention of 'Lord' Paul Bew – a central figure within the British establishment and signatory to the neo-conservative Henry Jackson principles.

Yet it was Paul Bew who initiated the fiasco that was the Boston College oral history project and Paul Bew who appointed Ed Moloney and Anthony McIntyre to work on the project. This is not me saying this but both Ed Moloney and Boston College themselves – look at this from the preface of Ed Moloney's own book Voices From The Grave, which was based on some of the interview tapes. The book's preface was written by Boston College officials Professor Tom Hachey (head of Irish Studies) and Dr Bob O'Neill (head of the Burns Library at BC):

'Paul Bew, politics professor and senior political adviser to a Northern Ireland first minister, together with two historians who remain anonymous, assisted in an assessment of the information contained in the recorded interviews. Lord Bew strongly encouraged Boston College to document and archive the stories of paramilitaries who fought on both sides of the sectarian divide, known more popularly as the Troubles, because it was such a natural fit.' (Voices From The Grave, Faber and Faber, 2010, p.1.)

For some reason Ed Moloney has now tried to downplay the importance of Paul Bew to the Boston project by asserting that Bew had simply been a 'messenger boy', but the quote above from Moloney's own book gives the lie to that assertion. The excellent researcher and journalist Tom Griffen has written tellingly on this issue here:
http://www.tomgriffin.org/the_green_ribbon/2014/04/was-lord-bew-really-just-ed-moloneys-message-boy.html

To put the final nail in the argument, let us again listen to Moloney himself in the book Voices from the Grave where in his own introduction he describes Paul Bew's input as 'crucial':

"In addition to Tom Hachey, Bob O'Neill, Patrick Keating, Anthony Mcintyre and Wilson McArthur, I would like to thank and credit a number of other people for their help in making this book possible ... Professor, now Lord, Bew, whose support at the very outset of the project was crucial ...'


Why has Ed Moloney sought to downplay the role of Paul Bew?

Thus we can be clear that both Boston College and Ed Moloney have previously stressed the importance of Paul Bew in the instigation of the infamous oral history project. But what has not been widely publicised or discussed (and this is perhaps the reason for Moloney's coyness over Bew) is the fact that Paul Bew not only set the Boston tapes ball rolling, it was Paul Bew who selected Ed Moloney and Anthony McIntyre to oversee and research/record interviewees respectively in the first place. Look at this article by Beth McMurtrie "Secrets From Belfast" – where she highlights Paul Bew's role:
http://chronicle.com/article/Secrets-from-Belfast/144059/

'So it was not surprising when, in the spring of 2000, a visiting scholar from Queen's University Belfast, Paul Bew, suggested to Mr. O'Neill that he consider documenting the recent history of Northern Ireland. Mr. Bew recommended Mr. Moloney, an intense and seemingly fearless journalist who was not averse to risky projects. Having spent decades getting to know people on both sides of the conflict, he was in the process of writing A Secret History of the IRA, a behind-the-scenes look at how the organization had shifted from the gun to the ballot box in its quest for influence.'

And in a subsequent quote where Boston College makes clear that they depended on Paul Bew's advice for selecting the oral history team:

'Mr. Hachey says he didn't feel anyone on the campus had the necessary expertise. Although a number of faculty members studied Irish culture, history, and literature, he says, "I was looking for someone who was an unequivocal expert" on modern-day Northern Ireland. He relied on the advice of Mr. Bew, who not only had recommended Mr. Moloney but also had been Mr. McIntyre's adviser at Queen's.'

There we have it, Paul Bew not only instigated the Boston College oral history project, he also chose Ed Moloney, whom he knew to be writing a book that was critical of Sinn Féin, and McIntyre whom he already knew because he had tutored him on his Queens doctorate which was entitled "Modern Irish republicanism: the product of British state strategies".

Bew, in other words knew exactly where Moloney and McIntyre were coming from when appointing them. But the Boston College quote above makes clear that Bew's influence and that of other anonymous figures went even further. Because even though the media has ignored this fact, both Ed Moloney and Boston College make clear that Paul Bew and these other background figures assessed the value of the interviews carried out by Anthony McIntyre and another researcher. Once again, this is not me saying this. This key information is provided in Ed Moloney's book Voices From The Grave and it bears repeating:

'Paul Bew, politics professor and senior political adviser to a Northern Ireland first minister, together with two historians who remain anonymous, assisted in an assessment of the information contained in the recorded interviews.'


Sinn Féin leaders – these are the bad guys right?

Once again Ed Moloney, following the sensational arrest of Gerry Adams by the PSNI's legacy unit, seems to be involved in telling a half truth about who saw, listened to, or had access to the controversial interview material. In a blog from his Broken Elbow site, he tells us that only one person, other than himself and Anthony McIntyre, has read the whole archive of the interview tapes and that was a US Federal Court judge.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 09, 2014, 10:09:58 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 06:17:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 09, 2014, 05:55:26 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 05:36:49 PM
Could you not find anything more recent than 9 months ago? I'm sure you looked hard enough.  ;)

Of course I can. In December, you called them "w**kers with a capital W". Some turnaround to go from that to potential voter in the space of 5 months! What did SF do since December that brought about such a monumental shift in position then?
I've answered that in posts 2296 and 2350. I'm surprised you haven't come across them in your trawl through my collected works.  :)

More bullshit. You gave two reasons:

1. The performance of Mairtin O'Muilleoir - yet he was mayor for six months when you, in December, described SF as "w**kers with a capital W". Hardly the language of someone seriously considering voting for them.

2. The visit to Buckingham Palace - So marty met lizzie. It happened nearly two years ago, during the intervening time since, you continued to describe SF as "w**kers", and "propegandists" who are "unfit to run a bath".

If you think you are kidding anyone with this claim to have miraculously turned towards becoming a SF voter, only for them to coincidentally do something to "change your mind" at the same time as your conversion, you're kidding yourself. You're a 'Grade A' bullshitter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 10:32:25 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.

Very quiet for the past fortnight Dixie,is this the best you can come up with to defend the bunch of touts that you support and quote at every opportunity.Catch a grip your chum McIntyre has been shown up for what he is.His get Gerry campaign has backfired on him,Ivor Bell and all the others who thought by touting it would bring down Adams and SF but instead they have put themselves in the Dock.

Glens, as a general rule I refuse to reply to people who continually hurl personal insults at me. Tyrones Own and Balldbeaver fell into that category, and for a good while so have you. However, on this occasion I will reply to you and ask you to produce evidence of where I quote Anthony McIntyre. Please show me the evidence. You say I defend a bunch of touts. Show me where I defend people like Scappaticci , Donaldson or Adams personal driver McShane?

You continually use the term touts yet you defend Martin McGuinness who has openly called on several occasions for people to tout on what they know to the police. Do you remember him standing on the steps of Stormont shoulder to shoulder with Hugh Orde calling on Irish nationalists and republicans to tout to the police? Gerry Adams did what the PSNI couldn't do and that was to positively identify Ivor Bell from the tapes. Did this make Gerry a tout? Obviously the PSNI think he was a tout as they claimed he worked for MI5 from 1974 during questioning. The PSNI, who Sinn Fein fully support, spend nearly £500,000 a year on touts. Sinn Fein have no problem supporting touts when it suits them, only don't tout on them.


You claim McIntyre has a "Get Gerry" campaign. A while back when Suzanne Breen was reporting on how Gerry covered up child abuse you and others claimed it was a "Get Gerry" campaign. Sinn Fein even invented a new phrase into the mix when they claimed "Dissident Journalists" were out to get him.

However, when the truth emerged we not only found out that he covered up for his brother and went on TV and lied about it, but he reported Aine's mother to social services over a dirty house. Any decent human would have reported the abuse. The claims of a "Get Gerry" campaign soon fizzled out until it was resurrected to tarnish the Boston project.

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As I have said previously, there are 28 former IRA men who have recorded details of their time in the IRA. Only snippets of a couple of those tapes have come to light. What evidence do you or Sinn Fein have to say that they are all anti Sinn Fein and a project designed to "Get Gerry"? Would you buy a double CD of 28 songs, listen to a few clips of 2 songs, then claim that the whole album is shite?

In the Sinn Fein book shop there are books by Ernie O'Malley. Do you know who he is? In case you don't, Ernie travelled the length and breadth of Ireland and interviewed former IRA volunteers who fought between 1916 to 1923. He interviewed 500 men and women and recorded their version of what happened, and what they did during that time. Those interviews are now available and are a valuable resource for generations to come who will study that time in history. Despite what you or Sinn Fein think, the accounts of those 28 men and women recorded for the Boston project should be afforded the same respect.

A couple of times you have posted on the Liverpool thread throwing up Caterpillar at me in a condescending way. May I remind you that Sinn Fein ignored a democratic vote among its members to boycott Caterpillar and not only endorsed a $2 million grant to them a few weeks after they dumped 920 people on the dole just before Christmas, but Martin McGuinness travelled to their factory and spoke highly about them. In that same factory, Caterpillar build the weapons of mass destruction that have demolished nearly 30,000 Palestinian homes. They are also a tax dodger who have set up shop in Switzerland in order to avoid paying tax here. Somehow you think all that is funny enough to have a go at me on the Liverpool thread.

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.

Now, go find me all those articles by Anthony McIntyre that you claim I posted. Lets see how many you can come up with?

Dixie go look at the times you copy and paste from "The Pensive Quill" are you trying to say you don't know that this is more of McIntyres handywork,a rag that has been attacking Adams and the SF leadership in much harsher terms than anything I have ever used on this forum to attack you and your ilk.Think this diatribe you have just posted show you are keeping good company.If you believe that Martin McGuinness wanting those who murdered a young Gael who joined the PSNI believing he was trying to bring about a new beginning to policing in the North to be brought to justice is the same as a crowd of twisted old men and women conspiring to tout on former comrades and get handfuls of money,well good luck to you all.I would have more respect for young Ronan Kerr than your crowd.

Glens, that is now the 2nd time you have brought the deaths of 2 young men into your reply in order to make a point. In previous posts to discredit Anthony McIntyre you brought up Priory Hall and the death of a man who took his own life. Now in this reply you have brought up the death of Ronan Kerr to make a point and have a dig at me.

I didn't know Ronan Kerr, but I remember well the Saturday afternoon when Eamon Malie broke the news of a bomb in Omagh. Like everyone else it brought back painful memories. When I found out what happened I was as horrified as anyone else. A couple of days later I was reading the paper at home with my mother and I got up and said "i'm going to that mans wake to pay my respects. how can I fight for human rights in Palestine and ignore violations of human rights in my back yard?"

I got into my car and drove to his home. Parking was in a nearby school, and a mini bus service was taking people to his home. when the minibus came back to the car park from the house, a number of people stepped out. Gerry Kelly was 1st out followed by other Sinn Fein representatives.

I went to Ronans home and paid my respects to him. He was laid out in his PSNI uniform, surrounded by his Tyrone jersey and if I remember rightly, a picture of him holding the Sam Maguire. One holding it as proudly as the photo as I have holding it.

His mother was standing beside him. I shook her hand and she asked me how did I know Ronan. I told her I didn't know her but that I was there to show my respect for him and the decision he took to make this world a better place. We held hands for a while, and in some small way for a brief moment, she felt some comfort.

After a cup of tea I made my way back to the car via the mini bus. When I got into my car at the bottom of the car park I burst into tears. Ronan Kerr didn't deserve to die, his mother didn't have to go through that heartbreak. I thought of Gerry Kelly having been at the house earlier and it in a way confirmed to me that Sinn Fein have moved on with support for the PSNI. In any democratic society we need a police force that is accountable to the people. Ronan Kerr was the new face of that police force.

That same police force has the job of finding the killers of Ronan, Jean McConville, and hundreds of other cases that remain unsolved. We have to let the police do their job, and we can't cherry pick which ones we want them to investigate, or who they can interview or not.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 10:40:01 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 10:32:25 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.

Very quiet for the past fortnight Dixie,is this the best you can come up with to defend the bunch of touts that you support and quote at every opportunity.Catch a grip your chum McIntyre has been shown up for what he is.His get Gerry campaign has backfired on him,Ivor Bell and all the others who thought by touting it would bring down Adams and SF but instead they have put themselves in the Dock.

Glens, as a general rule I refuse to reply to people who continually hurl personal insults at me. Tyrones Own and Balldbeaver fell into that category, and for a good while so have you. However, on this occasion I will reply to you and ask you to produce evidence of where I quote Anthony McIntyre. Please show me the evidence. You say I defend a bunch of touts. Show me where I defend people like Scappaticci , Donaldson or Adams personal driver McShane?

You continually use the term touts yet you defend Martin McGuinness who has openly called on several occasions for people to tout on what they know to the police. Do you remember him standing on the steps of Stormont shoulder to shoulder with Hugh Orde calling on Irish nationalists and republicans to tout to the police? Gerry Adams did what the PSNI couldn't do and that was to positively identify Ivor Bell from the tapes. Did this make Gerry a tout? Obviously the PSNI think he was a tout as they claimed he worked for MI5 from 1974 during questioning. The PSNI, who Sinn Fein fully support, spend nearly £500,000 a year on touts. Sinn Fein have no problem supporting touts when it suits them, only don't tout on them.


You claim McIntyre has a "Get Gerry" campaign. A while back when Suzanne Breen was reporting on how Gerry covered up child abuse you and others claimed it was a "Get Gerry" campaign. Sinn Fein even invented a new phrase into the mix when they claimed "Dissident Journalists" were out to get him.

However, when the truth emerged we not only found out that he covered up for his brother and went on TV and lied about it, but he reported Aine's mother to social services over a dirty house. Any decent human would have reported the abuse. The claims of a "Get Gerry" campaign soon fizzled out until it was resurrected to tarnish the Boston project.

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As I have said previously, there are 28 former IRA men who have recorded details of their time in the IRA. Only snippets of a couple of those tapes have come to light. What evidence do you or Sinn Fein have to say that they are all anti Sinn Fein and a project designed to "Get Gerry"? Would you buy a double CD of 28 songs, listen to a few clips of 2 songs, then claim that the whole album is shite?

In the Sinn Fein book shop there are books by Ernie O'Malley. Do you know who he is? In case you don't, Ernie travelled the length and breadth of Ireland and interviewed former IRA volunteers who fought between 1916 to 1923. He interviewed 500 men and women and recorded their version of what happened, and what they did during that time. Those interviews are now available and are a valuable resource for generations to come who will study that time in history. Despite what you or Sinn Fein think, the accounts of those 28 men and women recorded for the Boston project should be afforded the same respect.

A couple of times you have posted on the Liverpool thread throwing up Caterpillar at me in a condescending way. May I remind you that Sinn Fein ignored a democratic vote among its members to boycott Caterpillar and not only endorsed a $2 million grant to them a few weeks after they dumped 920 people on the dole just before Christmas, but Martin McGuinness travelled to their factory and spoke highly about them. In that same factory, Caterpillar build the weapons of mass destruction that have demolished nearly 30,000 Palestinian homes. They are also a tax dodger who have set up shop in Switzerland in order to avoid paying tax here. Somehow you think all that is funny enough to have a go at me on the Liverpool thread.

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.

Now, go find me all those articles by Anthony McIntyre that you claim I posted. Lets see how many you can come up with?

Dixie go look at the times you copy and paste from "The Pensive Quill" are you trying to say you don't know that this is more of McIntyres handywork,a rag that has been attacking Adams and the SF leadership in much harsher terms than anything I have ever used on this forum to attack you and your ilk.Think this diatribe you have just posted show you are keeping good company.If you believe that Martin McGuinness wanting those who murdered a young Gael who joined the PSNI believing he was trying to bring about a new beginning to policing in the North to be brought to justice is the same as a crowd of twisted old men and women conspiring to tout on former comrades and get handfuls of money,well good luck to you all.I would have more respect for young Ronan Kerr than your crowd.

Glens, that is now the 2nd time you have brought the deaths of 2 young men into your reply in order to make a point. In previous posts to discredit Anthony McIntyre you brought up Priory Hall and the death of a man who took his own life. Now in this reply you have brought up the death of Ronan Kerr to make a point and have a dig at me.

I didn't know Ronan Kerr, but I remember well the Saturday afternoon when Eamon Malie broke the news of a bomb in Omagh. Like everyone else it brought back painful memories. When I found out what happened I was as horrified as anyone else. A couple of days later I was reading the paper at home with my mother and I got up and said "i'm going to that mans wake to pay my respects. how can I fight for human rights in Palestine and ignore violations of human rights in my back yard?"

I got into my car and drove to his home. Parking was in a nearby school, and a mini bus service was taking people to his home. when the minibus came back to the car park from the house, a number of people stepped out. Gerry Kelly was 1st out followed by other Sinn Fein representatives.

I went to Ronans home and paid my respects to him. He was laid out in his PSNI uniform, surrounded by his Tyrone jersey and if I remember rightly, a picture of him holding the Sam Maguire. One holding it as proudly as the photo as I have holding it.

His mother was standing beside him. I shook her hand and she asked me how did I know Ronan. I told her I didn't know her but that I was there to show my respect for him and the decision he took to make this world a better place. We held hands for a while, and in some small way for a brief moment, she felt some comfort.

After a cup of tea I made my way back to the car via the mini bus. When I got into my car at the bottom of the car park I burst into tears. Ronan Kerr didn't deserve to die, his mother didn't have to go through that heartbreak. I thought of Gerry Kelly having been at the house earlier and it in a way confirmed to me that Sinn Fein have moved on with support for the PSNI. In any democratic society we need a police force that is accountable to the people. Ronan Kerr was the new face of that police force.

That same police force has the job of finding the killers of Ronan, Jean McConville, and hundreds of other cases that remain unsolved. We have to let the police do their job, and we can't cherry pick which ones we want them to investigate, or who they can interview or not.

Glad you agree with Martin then as he called for people to help get the killers of Ronan Kerr,and I like SF believe the Mc Conville killing was horrific as well and if someone is found guilty of this well they well have to do time as the law states  but a witch hunt by disgruntled old men and women trying to implicate Adams in this killing is not going to solve the problem.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 10:52:07 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 10:32:25 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
The phrase, "A week is a long time in politics"  perfectly sums up the past week.

For anyone following the case of Jean McConville and Gerry Adams alleged involvement over the past while, it came as no surprise that he was going to be questioned about the allegations. He knew that as well, and he stepped up to the plate and made himself available for questioning. Over the course of 4 days, he was interviewed and then released without charge. A file has been sent to the DPP, and a few months later, a decision will be made whether to charge him or not.

Now, the response from Sinn Fein, and in particular Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Bobby Storey was very immature and they did themselves no favours. They didn't show proper leadership at a time where they should have remained calm.

A few weeks ago when Ivor Bell was arrested, Mary Lou said "that she would welcome any measure which would "provide additional comfort to the McConville family." The arrest of Gerry though was a measure too far for her.

Martin McGuinness revealed for the 1st time what thousands of Republicans and nationalists have known for years, and who were ridiculed for saying so, and that there still lingers an old guard of the RUC in the PSNI. For years though Martin never mentioned it, and at every opportunity backed them to the hilt. Sure only a few weeks ago he got them re instated in the St Patricks day parade. For him to throw the toys out of the pram and throw these allegations at the PSNI showed a serious lack of judgement.

Bobby Storey shouldn't have stated at the mural unveiling "We havn't gone away you know". The irony of that statement and people holding "save our peace process posters" wasn't lost on too many.

During the 4 days the party should have shut up shop and said very little until they seen how it was going to pan out with Gerry. In the end, it took Gerry Adams upon his return to steady the ship. He did a great job in calming every body down.

In relation to the Boston Tapes, the whole project is now destroyed to a certain extent. The use of a legal loophole by the PSNI to get access to them never should have been allowed to proceed. Peter King and John Kerry among others warned that they shouldn't be handed over. Hilary Clinton probably could stopped them, but didn't.

Only a couple of tapes were released that contained information on Jean McConville. Ivor Bell was arrested on the back of these tapes, and while he was charged in relation to her death, the PSNI can't prove that he was X or Y on the tapes. The contract that he signed confirming who he was on the tapes is lost. So are many others. However, in a statement yesterday, Gerry Adams said " Anthony McIntyre's interview with the late Brendan Hughes and his interview with Ivor Bell formed the mainstay for my arrest last week." Did Gerry just positively identify Ivor from the tape? Could Gerry be called as a witness in Ivor's trail by the PSNI?

The hate campaign stirred against The Boston Tapes is out of line and inaccurate. To say that everyone one the tapes are telling lies and are anti peace process is based on what? Only a couple of tapes have been heard out of a total of 28. How can such a judgement be made on the basis of a couple of extracts from a couple of tapes? The continued use of the word tout, and the spread of graffiti across west Belfast is appalling. It's not that long ago when Martin and Gerry were surrounded by 3 top British Agents.

The tapes were described as having serious merit by only the 3rd person to have listened to every tape. Their value for generations to come to study the history of our time, and to learn from it would have been immense. To protect those still alive, a limit of 50 or 75 years should have been imposed.

If there is no evidence against Gerry, and he is cleared, that should be it. For far too long the brutal murder of Jean McConville and accusations of his involvement has been thrown at Gerry, from all sides and especially by Enda Kenny. Now is the time to get to truth if we can. However, if he is charged, then that will be a serious blow to the party. From what we saw last week, there were very few who could lead like he can.

Very quiet for the past fortnight Dixie,is this the best you can come up with to defend the bunch of touts that you support and quote at every opportunity.Catch a grip your chum McIntyre has been shown up for what he is.His get Gerry campaign has backfired on him,Ivor Bell and all the others who thought by touting it would bring down Adams and SF but instead they have put themselves in the Dock.

Glens, as a general rule I refuse to reply to people who continually hurl personal insults at me. Tyrones Own and Balldbeaver fell into that category, and for a good while so have you. However, on this occasion I will reply to you and ask you to produce evidence of where I quote Anthony McIntyre. Please show me the evidence. You say I defend a bunch of touts. Show me where I defend people like Scappaticci , Donaldson or Adams personal driver McShane?

You continually use the term touts yet you defend Martin McGuinness who has openly called on several occasions for people to tout on what they know to the police. Do you remember him standing on the steps of Stormont shoulder to shoulder with Hugh Orde calling on Irish nationalists and republicans to tout to the police? Gerry Adams did what the PSNI couldn't do and that was to positively identify Ivor Bell from the tapes. Did this make Gerry a tout? Obviously the PSNI think he was a tout as they claimed he worked for MI5 from 1974 during questioning. The PSNI, who Sinn Fein fully support, spend nearly £500,000 a year on touts. Sinn Fein have no problem supporting touts when it suits them, only don't tout on them.


You claim McIntyre has a "Get Gerry" campaign. A while back when Suzanne Breen was reporting on how Gerry covered up child abuse you and others claimed it was a "Get Gerry" campaign. Sinn Fein even invented a new phrase into the mix when they claimed "Dissident Journalists" were out to get him.

However, when the truth emerged we not only found out that he covered up for his brother and went on TV and lied about it, but he reported Aine's mother to social services over a dirty house. Any decent human would have reported the abuse. The claims of a "Get Gerry" campaign soon fizzled out until it was resurrected to tarnish the Boston project.

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As I have said previously, there are 28 former IRA men who have recorded details of their time in the IRA. Only snippets of a couple of those tapes have come to light. What evidence do you or Sinn Fein have to say that they are all anti Sinn Fein and a project designed to "Get Gerry"? Would you buy a double CD of 28 songs, listen to a few clips of 2 songs, then claim that the whole album is shite?

In the Sinn Fein book shop there are books by Ernie O'Malley. Do you know who he is? In case you don't, Ernie travelled the length and breadth of Ireland and interviewed former IRA volunteers who fought between 1916 to 1923. He interviewed 500 men and women and recorded their version of what happened, and what they did during that time. Those interviews are now available and are a valuable resource for generations to come who will study that time in history. Despite what you or Sinn Fein think, the accounts of those 28 men and women recorded for the Boston project should be afforded the same respect.

A couple of times you have posted on the Liverpool thread throwing up Caterpillar at me in a condescending way. May I remind you that Sinn Fein ignored a democratic vote among its members to boycott Caterpillar and not only endorsed a $2 million grant to them a few weeks after they dumped 920 people on the dole just before Christmas, but Martin McGuinness travelled to their factory and spoke highly about them. In that same factory, Caterpillar build the weapons of mass destruction that have demolished nearly 30,000 Palestinian homes. They are also a tax dodger who have set up shop in Switzerland in order to avoid paying tax here. Somehow you think all that is funny enough to have a go at me on the Liverpool thread.

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.

Now, go find me all those articles by Anthony McIntyre that you claim I posted. Lets see how many you can come up with?

Dixie go look at the times you copy and paste from "The Pensive Quill" are you trying to say you don't know that this is more of McIntyres handywork,a rag that has been attacking Adams and the SF leadership in much harsher terms than anything I have ever used on this forum to attack you and your ilk.Think this diatribe you have just posted show you are keeping good company.If you believe that Martin McGuinness wanting those who murdered a young Gael who joined the PSNI believing he was trying to bring about a new beginning to policing in the North to be brought to justice is the same as a crowd of twisted old men and women conspiring to tout on former comrades and get handfuls of money,well good luck to you all.I would have more respect for young Ronan Kerr than your crowd.

Glens, that is now the 2nd time you have brought the deaths of 2 young men into your reply in order to make a point. In previous posts to discredit Anthony McIntyre you brought up Priory Hall and the death of a man who took his own life. Now in this reply you have brought up the death of Ronan Kerr to make a point and have a dig at me.

I didn't know Ronan Kerr, but I remember well the Saturday afternoon when Eamon Malie broke the news of a bomb in Omagh. Like everyone else it brought back painful memories. When I found out what happened I was as horrified as anyone else. A couple of days later I was reading the paper at home with my mother and I got up and said "i'm going to that mans wake to pay my respects. how can I fight for human rights in Palestine and ignore violations of human rights in my back yard?"

I got into my car and drove to his home. Parking was in a nearby school, and a mini bus service was taking people to his home. when the minibus came back to the car park from the house, a number of people stepped out. Gerry Kelly was 1st out followed by other Sinn Fein representatives.

I went to Ronans home and paid my respects to him. He was laid out in his PSNI uniform, surrounded by his Tyrone jersey and if I remember rightly, a picture of him holding the Sam Maguire. One holding it as proudly as the photo as I have holding it.

His mother was standing beside him. I shook her hand and she asked me how did I know Ronan. I told her I didn't know her but that I was there to show my respect for him and the decision he took to make this world a better place. We held hands for a while, and in some small way for a brief moment, she felt some comfort.

After a cup of tea I made my way back to the car via the mini bus. When I got into my car at the bottom of the car park I burst into tears. Ronan Kerr didn't deserve to die, his mother didn't have to go through that heartbreak. I thought of Gerry Kelly having been at the house earlier and it in a way confirmed to me that Sinn Fein have moved on with support for the PSNI. In any democratic society we need a police force that is accountable to the people. Ronan Kerr was the new face of that police force.

That same police force has the job of finding the killers of Ronan, Jean McConville, and hundreds of other cases that remain unsolved. We have to let the police do their job, and we can't cherry pick which ones we want them to investigate, or who they can interview or not.

Also Dixie as you are such a hard worker for Human rights and I have seen a little of the great work you do how can you not object or criticise  McIntyres involvement in Priory Hall as this also was a crime againist peoples human rights.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:00:36 PM
Glens, I never said I disagreed with McGuinness, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in Sinn Feins position in the last week. Gerry Adams stood up and named Ivor Bell as the man on the tape during his questioning. During questioning, Ivor Bell never identified himself, and the police couldn't confirm if it was him or not. Boston College have lost Ivors contract, and at this moment in time only Gerry Adams statement links Ivor Bell to the tapes. And you and Sinn Fein have the brass neck to call people "Touts"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:00:36 PM
Glens, I never said I disagreed with McGuinness, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in Sinn Feins position in the last week. Gerry Adams stood up and named Ivor Bell as the man on the tape during his questioning. During questioning, Ivor Bell never identified himself, and the police couldn't confirm if it was him or not. Boston College have lost Ivors contract, and at this moment in time only Gerry Adams statement links Ivor Bell to the tapes. And you and Sinn Fein have the brass neck to call people "Touts"?

Dixie Ivor Bell was arrested and charged before Police spoke to Adams and this is what he had to say about the interview so how has he touted on Ivor Bell.


The allegation of conspiracy in the killing of Mrs. McConville is based almost exclusively on hearsay from unnamed alleged Boston College interviewees but mainly from the late Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes. Other anonymous alleged Belfast Project interviewees were identified only by a letter of the alphabet, e.g. interviewee R or Y. One of these is claimed by the PSNI to be Ivor Bell although the interrogators told me he has denied the allegations. In the course of my interrogations they played what they alleged was a recording by Ivor Bell. They asked me to confirm that this was indeed his voice. I told them I could not do that.
- See more at: http://leargas.blogspot.co.uk/#sthash.Ex1oZorg.dpuf
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:44:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:00:36 PM
Glens, I never said I disagreed with McGuinness, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in Sinn Feins position in the last week. Gerry Adams stood up and named Ivor Bell as the man on the tape during his questioning. During questioning, Ivor Bell never identified himself, and the police couldn't confirm if it was him or not. Boston College have lost Ivors contract, and at this moment in time only Gerry Adams statement links Ivor Bell to the tapes. And you and Sinn Fein have the brass neck to call people "Touts"?

Dixie Ivor Bell was arrested and charged before Police spoke to Adams and this is what he had to say about the interview so how has he touted on Ivor Bell.


The allegation of conspiracy in the killing of Mrs. McConville is based almost exclusively on hearsay from unnamed alleged Boston College interviewees but mainly from the late Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes. Other anonymous alleged Belfast Project interviewees were identified only by a letter of the alphabet, e.g. interviewee R or Y. One of these is claimed by the PSNI to be Ivor Bell although the interrogators told me he has denied the allegations. In the course of my interrogations they played what they alleged was a recording by Ivor Bell. They asked me to confirm that this was indeed his voice. I told them I could not do that.
- See more at: http://leargas.blogspot.co.uk/#sthash.Ex1oZorg.dpuf

In his blog he uses the word alleged. In this statement he doesn't use it as he says as fact that the tape was Ivor Bell.

Either way, you still havn't come up with any postings that you claim to say I have posted ?

Do you want to withdraw that allegation yet?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 10, 2014, 12:01:27 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:44:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:00:36 PM
Glens, I never said I disagreed with McGuinness, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in Sinn Feins position in the last week. Gerry Adams stood up and named Ivor Bell as the man on the tape during his questioning. During questioning, Ivor Bell never identified himself, and the police couldn't confirm if it was him or not. Boston College have lost Ivors contract, and at this moment in time only Gerry Adams statement links Ivor Bell to the tapes. And you and Sinn Fein have the brass neck to call people "Touts"?

Dixie Ivor Bell was arrested and charged before Police spoke to Adams and this is what he had to say about the interview so how has he touted on Ivor Bell.


The allegation of conspiracy in the killing of Mrs. McConville is based almost exclusively on hearsay from unnamed alleged Boston College interviewees but mainly from the late Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes. Other anonymous alleged Belfast Project interviewees were identified only by a letter of the alphabet, e.g. interviewee R or Y. One of these is claimed by the PSNI to be Ivor Bell although the interrogators told me he has denied the allegations. In the course of my interrogations they played what they alleged was a recording by Ivor Bell. They asked me to confirm that this was indeed his voice. I told them I could not do that.
- See more at: http://leargas.blogspot.co.uk/#sthash.Ex1oZorg.dpuf

In his blog he uses the word alleged. In this statement he doesn't use it as he says as fact that the tape was Ivor Bell.

Either way, you still havn't come up with any postings that you claim to say I have posted ?

Do you want to withdraw that allegation yet?




Getting a bit tedious this proving you wrong but check 9th Jan post 156 and the 25 Th October post 170 on both occasions you copy and pasted McIntyre's rag The pensive quill.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 10, 2014, 12:31:52 AM
Apples is apples, do you work in one of these ELB? you seem to know how the funding works and that's its the ELBS  are responsible for what resources go to schools, who sets the policy? better yet who direct the policy to the ELBS? how do you know the ELBS are using resources poorly>?

Sinn Fein have not improved the education sector since the took over that dept which wasn't a shining light before hand anyway. School closures never tackled, CCMS schools inability to look at the integrated option, They spent all there time clashing with DUP to try and find a middle ground cause either party that pig headed they wouldn't agree a middle ground. have schools benefited from the removal of the 11plus NO! And if no-one wanted it why is there so many parents allowing their children to sit unregulated exams.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 10, 2014, 01:23:23 AM
You are wasting your time arguing with give-her-Dixie. He despises Gerry Adams because he despises the idea of peace in Northern Ireland..in much the same way that he despises the idea of peace in the middle east.

What you must understand is that his deeper, unspoken sectarian hatreds can only thrive if there is conflict in these places.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 10, 2014, 02:39:39 AM
Of course, "as a general rule" give-her-Dixie will not respond to this post because he does not "respond to personal abuse"  ::)

The amazing thing about sectarian bigots is how sensitive they are to any criticism.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on May 10, 2014, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.
+1
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on May 10, 2014, 01:33:41 PM
Welcome back, OMS.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 10, 2014, 02:13:38 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 10, 2014, 01:23:23 AM
You are wasting your time arguing with give-her-Dixie. He despises Gerry Adams because he despises the idea of peace in Northern Ireland..in much the same way that he despises the idea of peace in the middle east.

Didn't know he was in the pro Israel camp  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 10, 2014, 02:56:29 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on May 10, 2014, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.
+1

Four years since you last posted on this board,what do you know about me to agree with that rant?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SHEEDY on May 10, 2014, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on May 10, 2014, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.
+1
+2. agree with everything stated above.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 10, 2014, 06:58:00 PM
Two weeks from today we will have a good idea by how much SF representation has increased across this Island.A very exciting time for all involved with  the party but we will also be glad to see it over to get a good rest.Also possible to have 4 MEPs elected which would mean for the first time ever every person in Ireland would have a SF person representing them.  :D :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on May 10, 2014, 07:09:42 PM
Dixie turned on SF when they reversed some town twinning thing with Palestine. What Dixie levels against SF I level against him and seafood, that its their way or the highway on Israel.
Sinn Vein will do well in the south elections but mainly because every other party has been tried and HSS disappointed so there's not much left to lose now in voting shinner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on May 10, 2014, 08:23:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2014, 07:09:42 PM
Dixie turned on SF when they reversed some town twinning thing with Palestine. What Dixie levels against SF I level against him and seafood, that its their way or the highway on Israel.
Sinn Vein will do well in the south elections but mainly because every other party has been tried and HSS disappointed so there's not much left to lose now in voting shinner.

phewwwwwwwwww, I got away without abuse
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 10, 2014, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on May 10, 2014, 08:23:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2014, 07:09:42 PM
Dixie turned on SF when they reversed some town twinning thing with Palestine. What Dixie levels against SF I level against him and seafood, that its their way or the highway on Israel.
Sinn Vein will do well in the south elections but mainly because every other party has been tried and HSS disappointed so there's not much left to lose now in voting shinner.

phewwwwwwwwww, I got away without abuse

Early days for you yet  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 10, 2014, 12:01:27 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:44:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:00:36 PM
Glens, I never said I disagreed with McGuinness, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in Sinn Feins position in the last week. Gerry Adams stood up and named Ivor Bell as the man on the tape during his questioning. During questioning, Ivor Bell never identified himself, and the police couldn't confirm if it was him or not. Boston College have lost Ivors contract, and at this moment in time only Gerry Adams statement links Ivor Bell to the tapes. And you and Sinn Fein have the brass neck to call people "Touts"?

Dixie Ivor Bell was arrested and charged before Police spoke to Adams and this is what he had to say about the interview so how has he touted on Ivor Bell.


The allegation of conspiracy in the killing of Mrs. McConville is based almost exclusively on hearsay from unnamed alleged Boston College interviewees but mainly from the late Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes. Other anonymous alleged Belfast Project interviewees were identified only by a letter of the alphabet, e.g. interviewee R or Y. One of these is claimed by the PSNI to be Ivor Bell although the interrogators told me he has denied the allegations. In the course of my interrogations they played what they alleged was a recording by Ivor Bell. They asked me to confirm that this was indeed his voice. I told them I could not do that.
- See more at: http://leargas.blogspot.co.uk/#sthash.Ex1oZorg.dpuf

In his blog he uses the word alleged. In this statement he doesn't use it as he says as fact that the tape was Ivor Bell.

Either way, you still havn't come up with any postings that you claim to say I have posted ?

Do you want to withdraw that allegation yet?




Getting a bit tedious this proving you wrong but check 9th Jan post 156 and the 25 Th October post 170 on both occasions you copy and pasted McIntyre's rag The pensive quill.

Glens, could you please provide links to the articles by Anthony McIntyre that you continually claim to say I posted. By the way, posts 156 and 170 are not from myself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 11, 2014, 02:37:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 12:27:29 PM

Glens, could you please provide links to the articles by Anthony McIntyre that you continually claim to say I posted. By the way, posts 156 and 170 are not from myself.

I assume he was referring to posts 157 and 171 showing the contributions of Guest writers to McIntyre's site. Of course you knew this. A simple click on "show posts" under your username and scrolling to Jan 9th , Oct 25th reveal the posts. Also, they are  your only posts on Jan 9 and oct 25th. Only a blind man or a deliberate liar would claim to not be able to find them

Quote from: give her dixie on January 09, 2014, 10:49:02 PM
SINN FEIN COUNCILLOR REFERS TO VICTIMS OF SUICIDE AS 'DEATH WANTERS.'

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/01/sinn-fein-councillor-refers-to-victims.html

Quote from: give her dixie on October 25, 2013, 12:27:40 AM
Our revenge will be the laughter of our children....

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/our-revenge-will-be-laughter-of-our.html

I don't have a dog in this fight. I have no time for Adams or Sinn Fein,  however,  this is just another example of the mendacious, weaselly way that you and Seafoid operate. It's what I call the "plausible denial" tactic. Always on the attack, whipping up hatred but always slippery when challenged. Constant evasions. Knowing deceptions (as shown above).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2014, 04:09:47 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 11, 2014, 02:37:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 12:27:29 PM

Glens, could you please provide links to the articles by Anthony McIntyre that you continually claim to say I posted. By the way, posts 156 and 170 are not from myself.

I assume he was referring to posts 157 and 171 showing the contributions of Guest writers to McIntyre's site. Of course you knew this. A simple click on "show posts" under your username and scrolling to Jan 9th , Oct 25th reveal the posts. Also, they are  your only posts on Jan 9 and oct 25th. Only a blind man or a deliberate liar would claim to not be able to find them

Quote from: give her dixie on January 09, 2014, 10:49:02 PM
SINN FEIN COUNCILLOR REFERS TO VICTIMS OF SUICIDE AS 'DEATH WANTERS.'

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/01/sinn-fein-councillor-refers-to-victims.html

Quote from: give her dixie on October 25, 2013, 12:27:40 AM
Our revenge will be the laughter of our children....

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/our-revenge-will-be-laughter-of-our.html

I don't have a dog in this fight. I have no time for Adams or Sinn Fein,  however,  this is just another example of the mendacious, weaselly way that you and Seafoid operate. It's what I call the "plausible denial" tactic. Always on the attack, whipping up hatred but always slippery when challenged. Constant evasions. Knowing deceptions (as shown above).
MikeSheehy

Is this part of your work for your therapist ? 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 11, 2014, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 10, 2014, 12:01:27 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:44:29 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 09, 2014, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 11:00:36 PM
Glens, I never said I disagreed with McGuinness, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in Sinn Feins position in the last week. Gerry Adams stood up and named Ivor Bell as the man on the tape during his questioning. During questioning, Ivor Bell never identified himself, and the police couldn't confirm if it was him or not. Boston College have lost Ivors contract, and at this moment in time only Gerry Adams statement links Ivor Bell to the tapes. And you and Sinn Fein have the brass neck to call people "Touts"?

Dixie Ivor Bell was arrested and charged before Police spoke to Adams and this is what he had to say about the interview so how has he touted on Ivor Bell.


The allegation of conspiracy in the killing of Mrs. McConville is based almost exclusively on hearsay from unnamed alleged Boston College interviewees but mainly from the late Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes. Other anonymous alleged Belfast Project interviewees were identified only by a letter of the alphabet, e.g. interviewee R or Y. One of these is claimed by the PSNI to be Ivor Bell although the interrogators told me he has denied the allegations. In the course of my interrogations they played what they alleged was a recording by Ivor Bell. They asked me to confirm that this was indeed his voice. I told them I could not do that.
- See more at: http://leargas.blogspot.co.uk/#sthash.Ex1oZorg.dpuf

In his blog he uses the word alleged. In this statement he doesn't use it as he says as fact that the tape was Ivor Bell.

Either way, you still havn't come up with any postings that you claim to say I have posted ?

Do you want to withdraw that allegation yet?




Getting a bit tedious this proving you wrong but check 9th Jan post 156 and the 25 Th October post 170 on both occasions you copy and pasted McIntyre's rag The pensive quill.

Glens, could you please provide links to the articles by Anthony McIntyre that you continually claim to say I posted. By the way, posts 156 and 170 are not from myself.

Dixie have already told you how you can see two of them you posted,now go and look at them yourself or ask McIntyre to send you a copy.You are very sad if you are now in denial but I wouldn't blame you after all I think McIntyre is embarrassed about them himself now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 05:25:54 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 11, 2014, 02:37:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 12:27:29 PM

Glens, could you please provide links to the articles by Anthony McIntyre that you continually claim to say I posted. By the way, posts 156 and 170 are not from myself.

I assume he was referring to posts 157 and 171 showing the contributions of Guest writers to McIntyre's site. Of course you knew this. A simple click on "show posts" under your username and scrolling to Jan 9th , Oct 25th reveal the posts. Also, they are  your only posts on Jan 9 and oct 25th. Only a blind man or a deliberate liar would claim to not be able to find them

Quote from: give her dixie on January 09, 2014, 10:49:02 PM
SINN FEIN COUNCILLOR REFERS TO VICTIMS OF SUICIDE AS 'DEATH WANTERS.'

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/01/sinn-fein-councillor-refers-to-victims.html

Quote from: give her dixie on October 25, 2013, 12:27:40 AM
Our revenge will be the laughter of our children....

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/our-revenge-will-be-laughter-of-our.html

I don't have a dog in this fight. I have no time for Adams or Sinn Fein,  however,  this is just another example of the mendacious, weaselly way that you and Seafoid operate. It's what I call the "plausible denial" tactic. Always on the attack, whipping up hatred but always slippery when challenged. Constant evasions. Knowing deceptions (as shown above).


Mike, if you would have taken the time to click on both articles (and read them) you will see that one is by Thomas Elliott, and the other by Gerard Hodgins. They just happen to be published on the Pensive Quill.

Glens has accused me of posting articles by Anthony McIntyre. I have asked him to prove that allegation. So far, he has failed to do so.

Here are a few examples of his claims and his constant attempts to associate me with Anthony McIntyre:

"Dixie go look at the times you copy and paste from "The Pensive Quill" are you trying to say you don't know that this is more of McIntyres handywork,a rag that has been attacking Adams and the SF leadership in much harsher terms than anything I have ever used on this forum to attack you and your ilk. Think this diatribe you have just posted show you are keeping good company.If you believe that Martin McGuinness wanting those who murdered a young Gael who joined the PSNI believing he was trying to bring about a new beginning to policing in the North to be brought to justice is the same as a crowd of twisted old men and women conspiring to tout on former comrades and get handfuls of money,well good luck to you all.I would have more respect for young Ronan Kerr than your crowd."

"Dixie,is this the best you can come up with to defend the bunch of touts that you support and quote at every opportunity.Catch a grip your chum McIntyre has been shown up for what he is."

"This man McIntyre who Give Her Dixie quotes all the time to attack SF is paid £100k to get people to tell lies and tout on former friends and comrades to try and discredit SF and Adams.He worked for McFeely in the Priory Hall project that left scores of people homeless with big debts and even one person taken his own life he was so depressed.The Brits and their fellow travellers will stoop as low as they can to attack Republicans but I have a message for you Dixie it's not working, people are see you all for what you are.Enjoy May the 25th when the results are in. :-[ :-["

"Dixie don't believe all you read in the Brit press or your dissie chums tell you."

"The brothers-in- law in Tyrone,McIntyre,Jim Allister,Jamie Bryson,and Dixie must be doing somersaults"

In his reply to the article above where a Sinn Fein Councillor said this about Suicide victims:
" I think those death wanters think they are to important to live.", Glens had this to say:

"if this is true I have no doubt he will be dealt with within the party as SF work very hard with groups involved in suicide awareness,but to quote something from a paper edited by a man who got Ex-republican prisoners to inform on their former comrades and was involved with the gangster McFeely in the Priory Hall project I would take with a pinch of salt.Sinking pretty low now Dixie."

The Mid Ulster Mail also reported on this story. Why should it matter what outlet published the story? Should what he said not be the issue here?

And in reply to the 2nd article I posted about the lies Gerry Adams told to everyone regarding how he covered up child abuse, Glens had this to say:

"Well well Dixie the Pensivequill or Tony's weekly liar.Published by a "Republican" who got vulnerable people to tout on their former comrades,a "Socialist" who conspired with others to build Priory Hall and distroy working peoples lives[maybe even used catapiller while building them].Really stooping low now Dixie so remember the old saying if you lie with dogs you will get up with fleas."

Once again, he said nothing about the story in the article.



As you can see from above Mike, all I have done is post links to 2 articles that appeared on The Pensive Quill. They were by 2 different authors, neither of whom is Anthony McIntyre.

As you can see from the quotes above, Glens claims in several posts are untrue, and he has used lies to try and blacken me and my character with constant associations with Anthony McIntyre and others. He even stooped to a low by bringing the deaths of 2 young men into the debate in another attempt to discredit me and Anthony McIntyre.

He is only following party orders to blacken Anthony McIntyres name, and those of anyone they think are associated with him. Even if they have no evidence, blacken them anyway as can be seen from above.

Right across social media and on the many walls around west Belfast no chance is missed to publicly blacken those associated with the Boston tapes. Danny Morrison tweeted the other day "The Boston Touting Project" Gerry Adams re tweeted that message. That was the rubber stamp his followers needed to continue this character assassination.

As Gareth Pierce delivered a lecture last Saturday night as part of the annual Brendan Hughes lecture in west Belfast, JJ Magee, a Sinn Fein Councillor tweeted the following:

Cllr JJ Magee @jjnorthbelfast
In-former republicans conference in dc tonight all touts welcome #bostontapes

Needless to say Gareth wasn't impressed, and neither were those who were there. No apology has been offered by Magee or Sinn Fein for the offensive tweet. Given the work Gareth has done for Irish people, this was a disgusting remark, and typical of the bully boy nature of Sinn Fein that we have seen in the past week.

Only a couple of weeks ago Sinn Fein responded to a banner unfurled on the Black Mountain that said "One Ireland One Vote". Sinn Fein Coucillor Jim McVeigh had this to say "I just think it is about time for everyone to stop putting stuff up; it's not particularly aesthetic looking". Martin McGuinness also spoke out in condemnation and issued a joint statement with Peter Robinson

However, they have sat back and said nothing as ugly graffiti has spread across West Belfast. There is also a subliminal message here towards the McConville family who have threatened to go to the police and tell them who they believe was involved in their mothers abduction and execution.

In East Belfast in recent weeks graffiti has spread attacking foreign nationals living in the area. This graffiti in West Belfast is no different in my opinion as its message is threatening to others. This past weekend thousands of visitors poured into Belfast for the Giro d'Italia. I'm sure they were impressed by the messages been sent out in 2 different parts of Belfast.

Today Gerry Adams had no problem with messages on the mountain as he tweeted a picture of the banner unveiled over the weekend. Hypocrisy or what?

If Sinn Fein really cared about the communities they represent, they wouldn't allow the graffiti to go up in the 1st place, and they should be doing all in their power to remove it. Encouraging it by sending out tweets shouldn't be the actions of a party who are currently knocking doors up and down the country trying to tell people how nice they are why they should vote for them.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 11, 2014, 06:04:34 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 05:25:54 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 11, 2014, 02:37:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 12:27:29 PM

Glens, could you please provide links to the articles by Anthony McIntyre that you continually claim to say I posted. By the way, posts 156 and 170 are not from myself.

I assume he was referring to posts 157 and 171 showing the contributions of Guest writers to McIntyre's site. Of course you knew this. A simple click on "show posts" under your username and scrolling to Jan 9th , Oct 25th reveal the posts. Also, they are  your only posts on Jan 9 and oct 25th. Only a blind man or a deliberate liar would claim to not be able to find them

Quote from: give her dixie on January 09, 2014, 10:49:02 PM
SINN FEIN COUNCILLOR REFERS TO VICTIMS OF SUICIDE AS 'DEATH WANTERS.'

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/01/sinn-fein-councillor-refers-to-victims.html

Quote from: give her dixie on October 25, 2013, 12:27:40 AM
Our revenge will be the laughter of our children....

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/our-revenge-will-be-laughter-of-our.html

I don't have a dog in this fight. I have no time for Adams or Sinn Fein,  however,  this is just another example of the mendacious, weaselly way that you and Seafoid operate. It's what I call the "plausible denial" tactic. Always on the attack, whipping up hatred but always slippery when challenged. Constant evasions. Knowing deceptions (as shown above).


Mike, if you would have taken the time to click on both articles (and read them) you will see that one is by Thomas Elliott, and the other by Gerard Hodgins. They just happen to be published on the Pensive Quill.

Glens has accused me of posting articles by Anthony McIntyre. I have asked him to prove that allegation. So far, he has failed to do so.

Here are a few examples of his claims and his constant attempts to associate me with Anthony McIntyre:

"Dixie go look at the times you copy and paste from "The Pensive Quill" are you trying to say you don't know that this is more of McIntyres handywork,a rag that has been attacking Adams and the SF leadership in much harsher terms than anything I have ever used on this forum to attack you and your ilk. Think this diatribe you have just posted show you are keeping good company.If you believe that Martin McGuinness wanting those who murdered a young Gael who joined the PSNI believing he was trying to bring about a new beginning to policing in the North to be brought to justice is the same as a crowd of twisted old men and women conspiring to tout on former comrades and get handfuls of money,well good luck to you all.I would have more respect for young Ronan Kerr than your crowd."

"Dixie,is this the best you can come up with to defend the bunch of touts that you support and quote at every opportunity.Catch a grip your chum McIntyre has been shown up for what he is."

"This man McIntyre who Give Her Dixie quotes all the time to attack SF is paid £100k to get people to tell lies and tout on former friends and comrades to try and discredit SF and Adams.He worked for McFeely in the Priory Hall project that left scores of people homeless with big debts and even one person taken his own life he was so depressed.The Brits and their fellow travellers will stoop as low as they can to attack Republicans but I have a message for you Dixie it's not working, people are see you all for what you are.Enjoy May the 25th when the results are in. :-[ :-["

"Dixie don't believe all you read in the Brit press or your dissie chums tell you."

"The brothers-in- law in Tyrone,McIntyre,Jim Allister,Jamie Bryson,and Dixie must be doing somersaults"

In his reply to the article above where a Sinn Fein Councillor said this about Suicide victims:
" I think those death wanters think they are to important to live.", Glens had this to say:

"if this is true I have no doubt he will be dealt with within the party as SF work very hard with groups involved in suicide awareness,but to quote something from a paper edited by a man who got Ex-republican prisoners to inform on their former comrades and was involved with the gangster McFeely in the Priory Hall project I would take with a pinch of salt.Sinking pretty low now Dixie."

The Mid Ulster Mail also reported on this story. Why should it matter what outlet published the story? Should what he said not be the issue here?

And in reply to the 2nd article I posted about the lies Gerry Adams told to everyone regarding how he covered up child abuse, Glens had this to say:

"Well well Dixie the Pensivequill or Tony's weekly liar.Published by a "Republican" who got vulnerable people to tout on their former comrades,a "Socialist" who conspired with others to build Priory Hall and distroy working peoples lives[maybe even used catapiller while building them].Really stooping low now Dixie so remember the old saying if you lie with dogs you will get up with fleas."

Once again, he said nothing about the story in the article.



As you can see from above Mike, all I have done is post links to 2 articles that appeared on The Pensive Quill. They were by 2 different authors, neither of whom is Anthony McIntyre.

As you can see from the quotes above, Glens claims in several posts are untrue, and he has used lies to try and blacken me and my character with constant associations with Anthony McIntyre and others. He even stooped to a low by bringing the deaths of 2 young men into the debate in another attempt to discredit me and Anthony McIntyre.

He is only following party orders to blacken Anthony McIntyres name, and those of anyone they think are associated with him. Even if they have no evidence, blacken them anyway as can be seen from above.

Right across social media and on the many walls around west Belfast no chance is missed to publicly blacken those associated with the Boston tapes. Danny Morrison tweeted the other day "The Boston Touting Project" Gerry Adams re tweeted that message. That was the rubber stamp his followers needed to continue this character assassination.

As Gareth Pierce delivered a lecture last Saturday night as part of the annual Brendan Hughes lecture in west Belfast, JJ Magee, a Sinn Fein Councillor tweeted the following:

Cllr JJ Magee @jjnorthbelfast
In-former republicans conference in dc tonight all touts welcome #bostontapes

Needless to say Gareth wasn't impressed, and neither were those who were there. No apology has been offered by Magee or Sinn Fein for the offensive tweet. Given the work Gareth has done for Irish people, this was a disgusting remark, and typical of the bully boy nature of Sinn Fein that we have seen in the past week.

Only a couple of weeks ago Sinn Fein responded to a banner unfurled on the Black Mountain that said "One Ireland One Vote". Sinn Fein Coucillor Jim McVeigh had this to say "I just think it is about time for everyone to stop putting stuff up; it's not particularly aesthetic looking". Martin McGuinness also spoke out in condemnation and issued a joint statement with Peter Robinson

However, they have sat back and said nothing as ugly graffiti has spread across West Belfast. There is also a subliminal message here towards the McConville family who have threatened to go to the police and tell them who they believe was involved in their mothers abduction and execution.

In East Belfast in recent weeks graffiti has spread attacking foreign nationals living in the area. This graffiti in West Belfast is no different in my opinion as its message is threatening to others. This past weekend thousands of visitors poured into Belfast for the Giro d'Italia. I'm sure they were impressed by the messages been sent out in 2 different parts of Belfast.

Today Gerry Adams had no problem with messages on the mountain as he tweeted a picture of the banner unveiled over the weekend. Hypocrisy or what?

If Sinn Fein really cared about the communities they represent, they wouldn't allow the graffiti to go up in the 1st place, and they should be doing all in their power to remove it. Encouraging it by sending out tweets shouldn't be the actions of a party who are currently knocking doors up and down the country trying to tell people how nice they are why they should vote for them.

Dixie you have just admitted you have put up posts from McIntyres rag the Pensive Quill,so why the denials all along.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 06:34:18 PM
Glens, at no stage did I ever deny posting articles by the Pensive Quill. I knew I had posted them, I remembered the articles, I remembered what they were about, and I certainly remembered who wrote them.

I asked you to post the articles you claimed I posted when you said things like this:

"This man McIntyre who Give Her Dixie quotes all the time to attack SF"

What I have shown Glens is how you couldn't back up what you claimed. You talked the talk, but couldn't walk the walk.

And for the record Glens, I have only been in contact once with Anthony McIntyre and that was to send him a message on facebook to thank him for an article he published on the Hunger Strike by Khader Adnan a couple of years ago. Here is a link to it:

http://thepensivequill.am/2012/02/66-days.html

As I have pointed out above glens, you have taken a small link from me to Anthony McIntyre and used it as a battering ram against me and Anthony McIntyre. You don't like it when southern politicians use a tragedy in order to have a go at Sinn Fein in the Dail. You had no problem using 2 deaths to have a go at me.

As far as i'm concerned I have proved my point. Others following this post can make their own minds up. I'm finished with the topic, and i'm finished debating with you until you learn how to treat people with some respect and humanity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 11, 2014, 06:45:35 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 06:34:18 PM
Glens, at no stage did I ever deny posting articles by the Pensive Quill. I knew I had posted them, I remembered the articles, I remembered what they were about, and I certainly remembered who wrote them.

I asked you to post the articles you claimed I posted when you said things like this:

"This man McIntyre who Give Her Dixie quotes all the time to attack SF"

What I have shown Glens is how you couldn't back up what you claimed. You talked the talk, but couldn't walk the walk.

And for the record Glens, I have only been in contact once with Anthony McIntyre and that was to send him a message on facebook to thank him for an article he published on the Hunger Strike by Khader Adnan a couple of years ago. Here is a link to it:

http://thepensivequill.am/2012/02/66-days.html

As I have pointed out above glens, you have taken a small link from me to Anthony McIntyre and used it as a battering ram against me and Anthony McIntyre. You don't like it when southern politicians use a tragedy in order to have a go at Sinn Fein in the Dail. You had no problem using 2 deaths to have a go at me.

As far as i'm concerned I have proved my point. Others following this post can make their own minds up. I'm finished with the topic, and i'm finished debating with you until you learn how to treat people with some respect and humanity.

Dixie as you well know McIntyre has used his rag to gather around him others who are Anti peace process and more so anti SF  the same type of people he got to make the Boston Tapes.He has people like you on board to spread his propaganda and you have all been happy to do this but now when he is shown up for what he is you are all in denial.Keep telling yourselves you are right and everyone else is wrong Dixie but the truth will out as it has at long last regarding his lies and touting in The Boston Project.Goodbye and God bless it will be great to see the back of you and McIntyres lies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 12:29:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2014, 04:09:47 PM
MikeSheehy

Is this part of your work for your therapist ?

You should see a therapist about your obsession with Jews ? Maybe you can find one in Ballinasloe or someplace. 




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 01:21:27 AM
So, you say this......

Quote from: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 05:25:54 PM
Mike, if you would have taken the time to click on both articles (and read them) you will see that one is by Thomas Elliott, and the other by Gerard Hodgins. They just happen to be published on the Pensive Quill.

yet I clearly said in my post...

QuoteI assume he was referring to posts 157 and 171 showing the contributions of Guest writers

So, once again, you would have us believe that you did not see this ? You are a liar. You saw what I had written but , in that timehonoured tactic that you and Seafoid use, you deliberately feign ignorance. This, of course, requires the other person to work that bit harder to pin you down allowing you that bit more room to further obfuscate and wiggle your way out of taking responsibility for what you post.

Stop doing this give-her-Dixie. It is pathetic and Its as obvious as mud to any intelligent poster. You've been doing it for years but most people just couldn't be arsed to chase you down every getaway alley that you scurry down when challenged.

QuoteAs I have pointed out above glens, you have taken a small link from me to Anthony McIntyre and used it as a battering ram against me and Anthony McIntyre.

You are responsible for everything you post so spare us the "small link" bullshit. Remember that Malaysian "friend" whose article you linked to a while back about the missing jet ? You expect me to believe that it was just a coincidence that the "friend" happened to to pretty much express, word for word, the views of a rabid Malaysian anti-Semitic nutjob
Quotehttp://www.amazon.com/Future-Fastforward-Zionist-Anglo-American-Meltdown/dp/9676904112
Do you think we are stupid..?

Its what I keep saying about "plausible denial" ...you won't express these views explicitly. You are too slippery to put them down in black and white  but it's as obvious as hell what your views are by what you post.


QuoteAs far as i'm concerned I have proved my point. Others following this post can make their own minds up. I'm finished with the topic, and i'm finished debating with you until you learn how to treat people with some respect and humanity. 



...and, right on cue, you run away as soon as somebody takes you on and challenges you. the thing is this is not the first time you have done this. I think this is about the third time you have thrown your toys out of the pram when you start getting a bit of heat.

If you aren't willing to engage and defend what you post then piss off and stop spamming the board with these articles.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 12, 2014, 05:21:31 AM
Mike, given that I replied to you in relation to a post by yourself, and given that I said I was finished discussing the false allegations against me, I at least owe you a reply to your reply to me.

I will post my response in bold below what you have posted.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 01:21:27 AM
So, you say this......

Quote from: give her dixie on May 11, 2014, 05:25:54 PM
Mike, if you would have taken the time to click on both articles (and read them) you will see that one is by Thomas Elliott, and the other by Gerard Hodgins. They just happen to be published on the Pensive Quill.

yet I clearly said in my post...

QuoteI assume he was referring to posts 157 and 171 showing the contributions of Guest writers

So, once again, you would have us believe that you did not see this ? You are a liar. You saw what I had written but , in that timehonoured tactic that you and Seafoid use, you deliberately feign ignorance. This, of course, requires the other person to work that bit harder to pin you down allowing you that bit more room to further obfuscate and wiggle your way out of taking responsibility for what you post.

Stop doing this give-her-Dixie. It is pathetic and Its as obvious as mud to any intelligent poster. You've been doing it for years but most people just couldn't be arsed to chase you down every getaway alley that you scurry down when challenged.

I know you said "guest writers", no need to highlight it. If you had of posted my next sentence you will see that I said the following. I will include what you posted, and what you left out in order to make my point:

"Mike, if you would have taken the time to click on both articles (and read them) you will see that one is by Thomas Elliott, and the other by Gerard Hodgins. They just happen to be published on the Pensive Quill.

Glens has accused me of posting articles by Anthony McIntyre. I have asked him to prove that allegation. So far, he has failed to do so."

As I have already proved Mike, I never posted one single article written by Anthony McIntyre. (Apart from the 66 Days article a few hours ago)

To coin an often used phrase from these parts, "You cherry picked an argument" by leaving out an important following sentence

Mike, considering that I repeatably asked Glens to provide evidence to back up his claims that I posted articles by Anthony McIntyre, he failed to come up with one. Since I challenged his claim, not even he, or one of the hundreds of posters who viewed this thread could back up his claim.  If I was to borrow your phrase "Its as obvious as mud to any intelligent poster"  that no posts existed.

QuoteAs I have pointed out above glens, you have taken a small link from me to Anthony McIntyre and used it as a battering ram against me and Anthony McIntyre.

You are responsible for everything you post so spare us the "small link" bullshit. Remember that Malaysian "friend" whose article you linked to a while back about the missing jet ? You expect me to believe that it was just a coincidence that the "friend" happened to to pretty much express, word for word, the views of a rabid Malaysian anti-Semitic nutjob
Quotehttp://www.amazon.com/Future-Fastforward-Zionist-Anglo-American-Meltdown/dp/9676904112
Do you think we are stupid..?

I'm glad you brought this up Mike. When I seen the article by my friend  Matthias Chang I immediately posted the link and asked Muppet and others to comment. I didn't have the time to check the validity of his claims, and by asking others better versed on the subject, I got a general consensus. Despite not acknowledging the replies I received,  I took on board their opinions given that they knew a whole lot more than I did. I take that you noticed that I didn't mention the article again after I got my replies?

To give you some background Mike,  Matthias Chang who wrote that article is a leader of the  "Perdana Global Peace Organisation", an organisation founded by the former Malaysian prime minister  Mahathir bin Mohamad

On my 2nd convoy to Gaza, Matthias Chang headed up a Malaysian delegation who were taking part. Over a frought 4 weeks, we got to know each other very well. During our stalemate in Jordan and Syria, Matthias and 2 others flew to Egypt to negotiate our entry to Gaza. Upon their return, they announced a negotiated deal that would allow us to ship our vehicles and aid to Al Arish, 30 miles from Gaza, and all 500+ of us could fly to the same town and go to Gaza from there and cross through the Rafah border between Egypt and Palestine.

On behalf of the Perdona Organization, he pulled out the check book and paid for the boat, and co sponsored 4 flights carrying 500+ people. Having been delegated the job of seeing everyone onto the flights at the airport, I was the last to board. I was handed a ticket for everyone who flew marked "FOC" It was paid for by the Perdona group.

We all flew to Al Arish, our vehicles were shipped there as well, and we all made the short journey to Gaza and delivered our vehicles and aid. When we left Gaza, we were bused straight to Cairo airport and deported from Egypt.

A few months later, the Perdona group also paid for a boat to leave Ireland filled with aid. The ship was named "Rachel Corrie"

Skippered by a couple from Mayo, they set off from Dundalk to join the flotilla headed for Gaza. On board was 500 tonne of Quinn cement. Through a family friend, I met with a senior Quinn representative who agreed to donate that amount of cement.

They were well aware that CRH, their Irish rival, owned a stake in the Israeli company that supplied all the cement that was been used in the building of the apartheid wall, and for all the settlements built on Palestinian land. Faced with this evidence, they insisted that their donation had nothing to do with CRH's involvement in the persecution of Palestinians, but more to do with the plight of those in Gaza who needed vital materials to rebuild their homes. They were not interested in point scoring.

Mossad sabotaged the ship in Dundalk before it left, setting it back as it was repaired. 5 days after Israel killed 9 people as they made their way to Gaza in order to deliver humanitarian aid, they boarded the Rachel Corrie and arrested all on board as it sailed towards Gaza in international waters.

Among those arrested along with Matthias were UN Secretary-General Denis Halliday and Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire .

The aid on board never made it to Gaza.

The ship was named Rachel Corrie after the young US activist who stood up to the might of the Israeli occupation forces in Gaza and was crushed to death by a Caterpillar D9 dozer as she defended a Palestinian home that was due for demolition.

Recently we have seen Sinn Fein publicly support Caterpillar and endorse them with a grant for $2 million of taxpayers money. On the anniversary of Rachels death several Sinn fein representatives posted messages of support for her. Anyone who challenged them on their parties support for Caterpillar were ignored or deleted.

Its what I keep saying about "plausible denial" ...you won't express these views explicitly. You are too slippery to put them down in black and white  but it's as obvious as hell what your views are by what you post.


QuoteAs far as i'm concerned I have proved my point. Others following this post can make their own minds up. I'm finished with the topic, and i'm finished debating with you until you learn how to treat people with some respect and humanity. 



...and, right on cue, you run away as soon as somebody takes you on and challenges you. the thing is this is not the first time you have done this. I think this is about the third time you have thrown your toys out of the pram when you start getting a bit of heat.

If you aren't willing to engage and defend what you post then piss off and stop spamming the board with these articles.

Mike, I hope by my responses I have clarified my position, and you can see where I am coming from
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 12, 2014, 08:55:52 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 10, 2014, 12:31:52 AM
Apples is apples, do you work in one of these ELB? you seem to know how the funding works and that's its the ELBS  are responsible for what resources go to schools, who sets the policy? better yet who direct the policy to the ELBS? how do you know the ELBS are using resources poorly>?

Sinn Fein have not improved the education sector since the took over that dept which wasn't a shining light before hand anyway. School closures never tackled, CCMS schools inability to look at the integrated option, They spent all there time clashing with DUP to try and find a middle ground cause either party that pig headed they wouldn't agree a middle ground. have schools benefited from the removal of the 11plus NO! And if no-one wanted it why is there so many parents allowing their children to sit unregulated exams.

Like you I'm expressing an opinion. But one based on having listened to the debate and to the informed contributions of those in the sector. Only a minority of parents are opting for unregulated exams to gain entry to what the percieve as better schools. You started your first post expressing disappointment that your child has to travel to school. One of the outworkings of the 11 plus would be children accessin education in institutions close to where they live.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 12, 2014, 09:27:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 12, 2014, 08:55:52 AM
Only a minority of parents are opting for unregulated exams to gain entry to what the percieve as better schools. You started your first post expressing disappointment that your child has to travel to school. One of the outworkings of the 11 plus would be children accessin education in institutions close to where they live.

Since half of children are below average, by definition, they need not bother doing exams. Of the remainder some live near good schools anyway. So there is no need for a majority of parents to opt for such exams.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 12, 2014, 01:15:09 PM
Sinn Fein and DUP top the polls again, this time though it's in councillors missing council meetings. Noreen McAllister of Sinn Fein and Davy McAllister of DUP, both in Moyle, attended just 36% of full council meetings.

That's some representation for their constituents  :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 12, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
Perfectly timed :


Gerry Adams claims that his arrest has galvanised SF and instead of doing it harm, has actually been a benefit and SF's vote will increase.


The Brits would do anything to get rid of us. This must be really frustrating for Unionists - they're being sold pup after pup.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 12, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 12, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
Perfectly timed :


Gerry Adams claims that his arrest has galvanised SF and instead of doing it harm, has actually been a benefit and SF's vote will increase.

Perhaps they'll arrest him again, and a few others as well, and the SF vote will rocket, bringing about an instant United Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 12, 2014, 05:50:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 12, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 12, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
Perfectly timed :


Gerry Adams claims that his arrest has galvanised SF and instead of doing it harm, has actually been a benefit and SF's vote will increase.

Perhaps they'll arrest him again, and a few others as well, and the SF vote will rocket, bringing about an instant United Ireland.

Take it easy.

They can't arrest everybody at the one time. Somebody in authority has to be there to accuse the cops of being a dark force, that it's politically motivated, that it's being done to damage SF at the polls and to go to the Antrim Suite to protest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 12, 2014, 06:11:42 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 12, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
Perfectly timed :


Gerry Adams claims that his arrest has galvanised SF and instead of doing it harm, has actually been a benefit and SF's vote will increase.


The Brits would do anything to get rid of us. This must be really frustrating for Unionists - they're being sold pup after pup.

Did he??  From the Iris Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/gerry-adams-says-his-arrest-has-galvanised-sinn-f%C3%A9in-activists-1.1792140

"More generally on his arrest Mr Adams said, "It is not beneficial to Sinn Féin, it is not beneficial to me, it is not beneficial to my family"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 12, 2014, 08:13:26 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 12, 2014, 06:11:42 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 12, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
Perfectly timed :


Gerry Adams claims that his arrest has galvanised SF and instead of doing it harm, has actually been a benefit and SF's vote will increase.


The Brits would do anything to get rid of us. This must be really frustrating for Unionists - they're being sold pup after pup.

Did he??  From the Iris Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/gerry-adams-says-his-arrest-has-galvanised-sinn-f%C3%A9in-activists-1.1792140

"More generally on his arrest Mr Adams said, "It is not beneficial to Sinn Féin, it is not beneficial to me, it is not beneficial to my family"

I didn't read that to be fair. Could Gerry possibly be saying one thing and meaning something else ?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 12, 2014, 08:15:23 PM
Robert Fisk has a view on Gerry's arrest - Glens Abu will love at least some of this.


ROBERT FISK in the Independent

Sunday 11 May 2014
The spread of British hypocrisy, from Gerry Adams and Northern Ireland to Syria
If arresting Adams just before the European elections was not political, then surely the British refusal to inquire into the slaughter in Ballymurphy
The law is the law is the law. So I was taught as a child. But it's all baloney. Take the case of Gerry Adams, "arrested" and then released after chatting to the Northern Ireland police – I notice the cops did not use the old cliché about "helping the police with their inquiries" – about the torture and murder and "disappearance" of Jean McConville. It is, to quote Fintan O'Toole, that wise old bird of Irish philosophy, "an atrocity that cries out for accountability" – in which Adams has consistently denied any involvement. Sinn Fein announced that Adams's "arrest" was political, a remark that got the usual tsk-tsk from Unionists and British alike.
But alas, Theresa Villiers, the latest in the hordes of Northern Ireland secretaries to be visited upon Belfast, also announced, a wee bit before Adams's "arrest", that there would be no independent inquiry into the killing of 11 unarmed civilians in Ballymurphy in August 1971 by soldiers of the Parachute Regiment, the most undisciplined British military unit to be sent to the province, which later killed another 14 civilians in Derry on Bloody Sunday. In the Ballymurphy shooting, the Brits managed to kill a Catholic priest carrying an improvised white flag and a mother of eight children who went to help a wounded boy. The deaths of Father Hugh Mullan and Mrs Joan Connolly were also deaths that "cry out for accountability". But of course, there will be none. Ms Villiers has seen to that.

She also ensured that there would be no inquiry into the fire-bombing of the La Mon hotel in 1978, when the IRA burned 12 people to death. Families of the dead have their suspicions that transcripts of police interviews with IRA suspects to this crime were removed from the archives to protect important people involved in the "peace process" in Northern Ireland. No complaints about that, needless to say, from the IRA. But you can see the problem: if arresting Adams just before the European elections was not political, then surely the British refusal to inquire into the slaughter in Ballymurphy – assuming the soldiers involved have not died of old age – was political. After all, the Brits know who these soldiers were, their names, their ages and ranks. They have much more than the statements of two dead IRA supporters – the "evidence" against Adams – to go on.

Now you may argue that the Saville inquiry into Bloody Sunday cost far too many millions of pounds to warrant another investigation into the Ballymurphy deaths. But then you may also ask why the soldiers who gave evidence to the original inquiry were given the cover of anonymity. This was something Gerry Adams was not offered – nor, given the favourable political fallout, was he likely to have asked for it. But then it would also be pleasant if the Brits who know something about the Dublin and Monaghan bombings during the worst days of the Irish war could pop over to Dublin and give a little evidence about this particular atrocity. No chance of that, of course.

And you don't have to stick in Ireland for further proof of legal hypocrisy. Take our beloved Home Secretary's decision to deprive British immigrants of their British passports if they go to fight Assad's regime in Syria. Quite apart from the fact that William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, and his friends originally supported the armed Syrian opposition, there are problems with the passport story. Many British supporters of Israel, for example, have fought on Israel's behalf in Israeli uniform in that country's wars. But what if they served in Israeli units known to have committed war crimes in Lebanon or Gaza? Or in the Israeli air force, which promiscuously kills civilians in war. Are they, too, to be deprived of their passports if they were not born in the UK? Of course not. One law for Muslims, another for non-Muslims – not unlike Spain's offer of passports to the descendants of those driven from their homes in the 15th century, a generous act somewhat damaged by the fact that only Jews (not Muslims) may take advantage of it.

We will not dwell upon all the other hypocrisies of the Middle East – the outrage at any Iranian interest in acquiring nuclear weapons, for example, when another country in the region has an awful lot of nuclear weapons; or US fury at Russian annexation of Crimea but no anger at all about the annexation of Golan or the theft of Arab land in the West Bank, which are equally illegal under international law. Upon such foundations is aggression built: the illegal invasion of Iraq, for instance.

I contemplate all this because of a little research I'm undertaking about a Moroccan air force colonel who, in 1972, tried to stage a coup against the brutal King Hassan who was also, by the way, quite an expert on "disappearances". Mohamed Amekrane flew to Gibraltar and threw himself upon the dodgy mercy of Her Majesty. He pleaded for asylum (after all, the coup had failed) but we packed him off back to Morocco because, while the European Convention on Human Rights gives anyone the right to leave his or her own country, no international treaty obliges a country to give that person asylum. So back Amekrane went – and was, of course, put to death. His widow eventually got £37,500 from the British government – ex gratia, needless to say, out of goodwill not guilt, you understand – and Colonel Amekrane was then erased from history. Interesting to see what happens to the ex-Brits who lose their passports for going to Syria – and have to go back to the country of their birth. They might be better off – and live longer lives – if they to go off to fight in another jihad.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 12, 2014, 05:21:31 AM
When I seen the article by my friend  Matthias Chang I immediately posted the link and asked Muppet and others to comment. I didn't have the time to check the validity of his claims, and by asking others better versed on the subject, I got a general consensus. Despite not acknowledging the replies I received,  I took on board their opinions given that they knew a whole lot more than I did. I take that you noticed that I didn't mention the article again after I got my replies?

Mike, I hope by my responses I have clarified my position, and you can see where I am coming from

You didn't have time to check the validity of his claims ::) ..... Your intent was obvious i.e trolling a tragedy with shit-stirring geopolitics. Its disgusting. You should be ashamed.

Well, some good may come of this. You may be more careful about spamming the board with the rantings of your "friends".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on May 12, 2014, 09:40:53 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 12, 2014, 05:21:31 AM
When I seen the article by my friend  Matthias Chang I immediately posted the link and asked Muppet and others to comment. I didn't have the time to check the validity of his claims, and by asking others better versed on the subject, I got a general consensus. Despite not acknowledging the replies I received,  I took on board their opinions given that they knew a whole lot more than I did. I take that you noticed that I didn't mention the article again after I got my replies?

Mike, I hope by my responses I have clarified my position, and you can see where I am coming from

You didn't have time to check the validity of his claims ::) ..... Your intent was obvious i.e trolling a tragedy with shit-stirring geopolitics. Its disgusting. You should be ashamed.

Well, some good may come of this. You may be more careful about spamming the board with the rantings of your "friends".
Did you ever come across the term chutzpah ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 12, 2014, 05:21:31 AM
When I seen the article by my friend  Matthias Chang I immediately posted the link and asked Muppet and others to comment. I didn't have the time to check the validity of his claims, and by asking others better versed on the subject, I got a general consensus. Despite not acknowledging the replies I received,  I took on board their opinions given that they knew a whole lot more than I did. I take that you noticed that I didn't mention the article again after I got my replies?

Mike, I hope by my responses I have clarified my position, and you can see where I am coming from

You didn't have time to check the validity of his claims ::) ..... Your intent was obvious i.e trolling a tragedy with shit-stirring geopolitics. Its disgusting. You should be ashamed.

Well, some good may come of this. You may be more careful about spamming the board with the rantings of your "friends".

Mike, I don't know what has happened in your life that has made you so bitter and twisted. You spew hatred and insulting remarks at me and others left right and centre every chance you get. You even put your dislike for Sinn Fein to the one side in order to back up a liar from the party in an attempt to insult me. You seen for yourself the evidence he was lying, but chose to ignore it and have a go at me.

In regards to Matthias Chang and his article he wrote, you jumped up and down on a moral soapbox to insult me and hurl personal abuse. May I remind you once again of the facts.

This was my original post Mike:

"Muppet, or anyone else a bit better versed on the subject, can you have a read at this article by a friend of mine in Malaysia.

http://beforeitsnews.com/u-s-politics/2014/04/malaysia-pm-top-aide-mh370-us-hidden-agenda-military-tests-unforgivable-2466278.html  "

Mike, Matthias Chang is a former political secretary to former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. He is also a highly respected human rights lawyer. Given that the missing airline is Malaysian, he had every right to publish an article, and I or others had every right to post it on a thread related to the missing flight.

I posted the link to his article and asked for others betters versed on the topic to have a look. I could of posted the article and said nothing Mike, but given the seriousness of the topic, I asked for help.

Not one single person apart from you took offence. In fact you went out of your way to try and find offence and came up with a link to one of his books in a feeble attempt to discredit him. Maybe you should have read the Barnes review on the book:

"A history-making book you'll find hard to put down. What makes Future Fastforward especially powerful and fascinating is that this is the first book critical of the New World Order and the Zionist-Anglo-American elite written by a former highranking official of a major foreign government to be published on American soil. A must read for all Americans who not only hope to have an understanding of the forces that led the United States into the world quagmire where it is today but who also pray for a better future, one in which the New World Order intriguers can be brought to heel". --Barnes Review

You never know Mike, maybe if you read it you would be in a better position to comment on the book, the author, and his character.

Given your tendency to insult people and their character and spread lies about them, you should really consider a job with Sinn Fein. Right now they are in overdrive mode blackening peoples names and character and with your vast experience, you would fit right in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 08:58:18 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 12, 2014, 05:21:31 AM
When I seen the article by my friend  Matthias Chang I immediately posted the link and asked Muppet and others to comment. I didn't have the time to check the validity of his claims, and by asking others better versed on the subject, I got a general consensus. Despite not acknowledging the replies I received,  I took on board their opinions given that they knew a whole lot more than I did. I take that you noticed that I didn't mention the article again after I got my replies?

Mike, I hope by my responses I have clarified my position, and you can see where I am coming from

You didn't have time to check the validity of his claims ::) ..... Your intent was obvious i.e trolling a tragedy with shit-stirring geopolitics. Its disgusting. You should be ashamed.

Well, some good may come of this. You may be more careful about spamming the board with the rantings of your "friends".

Mike, I don't know what has happened in your life that has made you so bitter and twisted. You spew hatred and insulting remarks at me and others left right and centre every chance you get. You even put your dislike for Sinn Fein to the one side in order to back up a liar from the party in an attempt to insult me. You seen for yourself the evidence he was lying, but chose to ignore it and have a go at me.

In regards to Matthias Chang and his article he wrote, you jumped up and down on a moral soapbox to insult me and hurl personal abuse. May I remind you once again of the facts.

This was my original post Mike:

"Muppet, or anyone else a bit better versed on the subject, can you have a read at this article by a friend of mine in Malaysia.

http://beforeitsnews.com/u-s-politics/2014/04/malaysia-pm-top-aide-mh370-us-hidden-agenda-military-tests-unforgivable-2466278.html  "

Mike, Matthias Chang is a former political secretary to former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. He is also a highly respected human rights lawyer. Given that the missing airline is Malaysian, he had every right to publish an article, and I or others had every right to post it on a thread related to the missing flight.

I posted the link to his article and asked for others betters versed on the topic to have a look. I could of posted the article and said nothing Mike, but given the seriousness of the topic, I asked for help.

Not one single person apart from you took offence. In fact you went out of your way to try and find offence and came up with a link to one of his books in a feeble attempt to discredit him. Maybe you should have read the Barnes review on the book:

"A history-making book you'll find hard to put down. What makes Future Fastforward especially powerful and fascinating is that this is the first book critical of the New World Order and the Zionist-Anglo-American elite written by a former highranking official of a major foreign government to be published on American soil. A must read for all Americans who not only hope to have an understanding of the forces that led the United States into the world quagmire where it is today but who also pray for a better future, one in which the New World Order intriguers can be brought to heel". --Barnes Review

You never know Mike, maybe if you read it you would be in a better position to comment on the book, the author, and his character.

Given your tendency to insult people and their character and spread lies about them, you should really consider a job with Sinn Fein. Right now they are in overdrive mode blackening peoples names and character and with your vast experience, you would fit right in.

Dixie you said you didn't want to discuss this anymore with me and I was very happy to let you run away,but I am not prepared for you to call me a liar when debating with someone else and think you can without redress.Think this just shows the coward you are.You are the man who has been proven on this thread to be the person prepared to spread the lies of McIntyre and his cronies which in my book makes you even worse than the touts and liars that they are ,so you can go and sulk in the corner again but remember every time you come on this board with your lies I will be there to expose you for what you are. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 13, 2014, 10:09:55 AM
Some difference in approach from the PSNI, grilling Adams for 4 days on the basis of some aul tapes from Boston, but their response to admissions on Panorama by members of the MRF to drive by shootings is to watch the programme and then do nothing. They did not even speak to the participants in the programme.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 13, 2014, 10:28:18 AM
Have you complained to the Ombudsman?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 02:31:42 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 08:58:18 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 12, 2014, 05:21:31 AM
When I seen the article by my friend  Matthias Chang I immediately posted the link and asked Muppet and others to comment. I didn't have the time to check the validity of his claims, and by asking others better versed on the subject, I got a general consensus. Despite not acknowledging the replies I received,  I took on board their opinions given that they knew a whole lot more than I did. I take that you noticed that I didn't mention the article again after I got my replies?

Mike, I hope by my responses I have clarified my position, and you can see where I am coming from

You didn't have time to check the validity of his claims ::) ..... Your intent was obvious i.e trolling a tragedy with shit-stirring geopolitics. Its disgusting. You should be ashamed.

Well, some good may come of this. You may be more careful about spamming the board with the rantings of your "friends".

Mike, I don't know what has happened in your life that has made you so bitter and twisted. You spew hatred and insulting remarks at me and others left right and centre every chance you get. You even put your dislike for Sinn Fein to the one side in order to back up a liar from the party in an attempt to insult me. You seen for yourself the evidence he was lying, but chose to ignore it and have a go at me.

In regards to Matthias Chang and his article he wrote, you jumped up and down on a moral soapbox to insult me and hurl personal abuse. May I remind you once again of the facts.

This was my original post Mike:

"Muppet, or anyone else a bit better versed on the subject, can you have a read at this article by a friend of mine in Malaysia.

http://beforeitsnews.com/u-s-politics/2014/04/malaysia-pm-top-aide-mh370-us-hidden-agenda-military-tests-unforgivable-2466278.html  "

Mike, Matthias Chang is a former political secretary to former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. He is also a highly respected human rights lawyer. Given that the missing airline is Malaysian, he had every right to publish an article, and I or others had every right to post it on a thread related to the missing flight.

I posted the link to his article and asked for others betters versed on the topic to have a look. I could of posted the article and said nothing Mike, but given the seriousness of the topic, I asked for help.

Not one single person apart from you took offence. In fact you went out of your way to try and find offence and came up with a link to one of his books in a feeble attempt to discredit him. Maybe you should have read the Barnes review on the book:

"A history-making book you'll find hard to put down. What makes Future Fastforward especially powerful and fascinating is that this is the first book critical of the New World Order and the Zionist-Anglo-American elite written by a former highranking official of a major foreign government to be published on American soil. A must read for all Americans who not only hope to have an understanding of the forces that led the United States into the world quagmire where it is today but who also pray for a better future, one in which the New World Order intriguers can be brought to heel". --Barnes Review

You never know Mike, maybe if you read it you would be in a better position to comment on the book, the author, and his character.

Given your tendency to insult people and their character and spread lies about them, you should really consider a job with Sinn Fein. Right now they are in overdrive mode blackening peoples names and character and with your vast experience, you would fit right in.

Dixie you said you didn't want to discuss this anymore with me and I was very happy to let you run away,but I am not prepared for you to call me a liar when debating with someone else and think you can without redress.Think this just shows the coward you are.You are the man who has been proven on this thread to be the person prepared to spread the lies of McIntyre and his cronies which in my book makes you even worse than the touts and liars that they are ,so you can go and sulk in the corner again but remember every time you come on this board with your lies I will be there to expose you for what you are.

Glens, may I once again remind you that you accused me doing something I didn't. I asked you to present the facts, and to date you havn't. I presented the facts to back up my position. You claimed I posted articles by Anthony McIntyre, I proved I didn't. So you see Glens, you were proven to be a liar.

Just to be crystal clear once and for all, these are the 2 links to articles by 2 men that I posted. Neither of whom are Anthony McIntyre, and neither of the articles are related to the Boston College project. And just to be crystal crystal clear for you, I will post them in full for you to see, and read.

I stand 100% behind my claims that you are a liar. I have proved that point beyond reasonable doubt.

If you disagree, sue me.

In the meantime, please stop spreading any more lies about me.

Article 1:

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/01/sinn-fein-councillor-refers-to-victims.html

Sinn Fein Councillor Refers to Victims of Suicide as 'Death Wanters.'

Thursday, January 09, 2014  AM  126 comments

Guest writer Thomas Dixie Elliot taking the media to task over its non responsiveness to a consistent patter on comments from Sinn Fein councillor Michael Henry McIvor, a frequent commenter on this blog.

Why are the media giving SF's Cookstown Councilor Michael Henry McIvor a fool's pardon in regards to the vile comments he repeatedly makes online?

He has gloated that 'dissident' groups haven't killed many Brits or cops, even in the Irish News/2006 (That's how I was able to link Michaelhenry to SF'S Michael McIvor of Cookstown).

He mocked the brutal murder of Paul Quinn and now refers to victims of suicide as "death wanters" who 'think they are to important to live' yet there is no outcry from anyone in the media or political circles.

Could you imagine the media outcry if any politician in any other political party North or South made such repugnant comments online?

Yet Michaelhenry aka Michael Henry McIvor seems for some reason to be given a fool's pardon?

For the record here is his full comment taken from The Pensive Quill...

    Don't know about other peoples attitude towards wakes and funerals but I find it as awkward as fcuk going to the wake of a person who as committed suicide and having to shake hands with the relatives and not having the words except 'sorry for your loss'- the last thing them familys wanted or needed was to find a son or daughter hanging in the shed - I think those death wanters think they are to important to live.


Post number 2:

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/our-revenge-will-be-laughter-of-our.html

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children....

Monday, October 21, 2013  AM  54 comments

Guest writer Gerard Hodgins with a piece asking questions of Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams in relation to allegations of covering up rape. Mr Hodgins is a former blanket man who took part in the 1981 Long Kesh hunger strike.


Gerry Adams is man very much in the public eye; he leads a political party in Ireland and was once the leader of The Republican Movement. He is a consummate politician who can play the media to his tune while evading and reinventing events to his interpretation. And when the media scrutiny gets too close to the bone he invokes the prerogatives of "private family affair" and "disgruntled opponents of the peace process".

A private family affair is just that and none should ever intrude publically into a private family affair, leaving it to the family to sort. When a cynical manipulator of the media chooses to milk a private family tragedy for a political end then that act is deserving of comment and questions.

In the first instance it has to be noted that when a report of child abuse was made to the RUC in 1987 the abuse allegation was overlooked for a leverage opening on the then leader of the republican movement. The child was abandoned by the very institutions of the state set up to safeguard and protect vulnerable children. That abandonment and indifference towards the plight of the child was compounded by its abandonment by the one uncle who could have made a difference.

In the aftermath of the Liam Adams trial and with the availability of documents and court records to give a deeper understanding of what precisely happened we are undoubtedly grateful that we live in the internet age when information is accessible pretty quickly before somebody dresses it up and presents it to us as something more akin to propaganda than fact.

The raw fact that Gerry contacted the Social Services the day after confronting Liam in Buncrana to complain that Aine was living in a dirty house and had nits rather than reporting her vulnerability to an abusive parent speaks volumes for the concern Gerry the man had towards Aine the child.

Further he only broke for cover when he discovered that Chris Moore was doing a documentary for UTV which would raise disturbing questions about his role in the saga. Having assessed the immediate impact of that documentary to be inimical to Big Gerry, he and his advisors called in Tommie Gorman from RTE a couple of days later when Gerry hung his own father out to hang in that infamous interview – which was designed to further cloudy the waters, engender sympathy for poor oul Gerry and stop people asking awkward questions.

The questions didn't stop though and when Suzanne Breen forensically dissected Gerry's whole account for The Sunday Tribune she exposed lie upon lie, deceit upon deceit in Gerry's accounts.

Not that many took notice, why let little things like facts get in the way of a good counter-revolution with electoral and financial gains still to be made -- such facts can be dismissed as the moaning of disgruntled opponents of the peace process.

But they came back again in crystallised form when a jury in Belfast found Liam Adams guilty of his crimes. And the reaction again from the Sinn Fein spin machine was to shoot the messengers. Journalists who covered the story are denigrated as lacking credibility and bona fides: it's all a personal witch-hunt against Big Gerry; it's the Brits; it's the securocrats.

But the most deafening silence has been the silence of absolutely nobody from within Sinn Fein asking a question. When the Catholic Church was being excoriated (and rightly so) for their proven institutional failures in relation to child protection and cover-ups of paedophile priests, Sinn Fein were out in front of the political posse biting at the heels of Cardinal Brady and his Bishops calling for resignations and no hiding place for people who turn their backs on children in such conditions.

I don't believe Sinn Fein internally though is such a united front around the Dear Leader who everybody loves and reveres; party strategists have to be considering the negative dynamics of going into elections with the stench of sexual abuse hanging over the party. Adams is clearly no longer the magical negotiator who could sell pork to the Arabs never mind sand, his cross examination exposed him as a faltering and unconvincing witness, more a liability than an asset hence his non-recall at the second trial.

Dismissing criticism of Gerry Adams as the outworking of opponents of the peace process is a cynical manipulation of the discursive format, It is not anti-peace to question the motivations and wisdom of a leader, it is not anti-peace to call out a snake oil-salesman on his inconsistencies and evasions. As republicans committed to a republic which cherishes all of the children equally we are obligated to raise voices of concern over the abandonment of a child and the subsequent media pantomime to present the unsavoury details in a manner favourable to Big Gerry the victim .....

Gerry lives in two worlds, he has told us so in his book "A Farther Shore", there is the fictional happy ending world where we swallow his version of history/events and then there is the other world, the world of truth and reality which we are not yet mature enough to handle. Referring to the hunger strike Adams comments:

    "A happy ending, finally, eventually, it seems to me is more important than a tell-all story now."

Like the hunger strike, his handling of sexual abuse allegations against a child leaves a lot more questions to be answered than clarity. There are no happy endings though: six men died unnecessarily in 1981 to get Adams into a lucrative lifestyle which has seen the poor boy from Ballymurphy move up the social ladder; abandoned child victims don't have happy endings, the memories never leave them. Then there is the matter of our patriot dead who died believing we were in this for the long haul while Gerry was secretly negotiating behind our backs to bring the war to a close. No happy endings......

We must continue to question though, to be silent is to be acquiescent. As republicans who once believed in and followed Gerry Adams we have every right to ask questions and demand full disclosure of all the secret dealings of the leadership of the Provisional high command. We deserve this and we earned the right to demand it when we stood against the British and endured all that they threw at us. It is time for the tell-all story now.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 04:32:47 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 02:31:42 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 08:58:18 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 12, 2014, 05:21:31 AM
When I seen the article by my friend  Matthias Chang I immediately posted the link and asked Muppet and others to comment. I didn't have the time to check the validity of his claims, and by asking others better versed on the subject, I got a general consensus. Despite not acknowledging the replies I received,  I took on board their opinions given that they knew a whole lot more than I did. I take that you noticed that I didn't mention the article again after I got my replies?

Mike, I hope by my responses I have clarified my position, and you can see where I am coming from

You didn't have time to check the validity of his claims ::) ..... Your intent was obvious i.e trolling a tragedy with shit-stirring geopolitics. Its disgusting. You should be ashamed.

Well, some good may come of this. You may be more careful about spamming the board with the rantings of your "friends".

Mike, I don't know what has happened in your life that has made you so bitter and twisted. You spew hatred and insulting remarks at me and others left right and centre every chance you get. You even put your dislike for Sinn Fein to the one side in order to back up a liar from the party in an attempt to insult me. You seen for yourself the evidence he was lying, but chose to ignore it and have a go at me.

In regards to Matthias Chang and his article he wrote, you jumped up and down on a moral soapbox to insult me and hurl personal abuse. May I remind you once again of the facts.

This was my original post Mike:

"Muppet, or anyone else a bit better versed on the subject, can you have a read at this article by a friend of mine in Malaysia.

http://beforeitsnews.com/u-s-politics/2014/04/malaysia-pm-top-aide-mh370-us-hidden-agenda-military-tests-unforgivable-2466278.html  "

Mike, Matthias Chang is a former political secretary to former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. He is also a highly respected human rights lawyer. Given that the missing airline is Malaysian, he had every right to publish an article, and I or others had every right to post it on a thread related to the missing flight.

I posted the link to his article and asked for others betters versed on the topic to have a look. I could of posted the article and said nothing Mike, but given the seriousness of the topic, I asked for help.

Not one single person apart from you took offence. In fact you went out of your way to try and find offence and came up with a link to one of his books in a feeble attempt to discredit him. Maybe you should have read the Barnes review on the book:

"A history-making book you'll find hard to put down. What makes Future Fastforward especially powerful and fascinating is that this is the first book critical of the New World Order and the Zionist-Anglo-American elite written by a former highranking official of a major foreign government to be published on American soil. A must read for all Americans who not only hope to have an understanding of the forces that led the United States into the world quagmire where it is today but who also pray for a better future, one in which the New World Order intriguers can be brought to heel". --Barnes Review

You never know Mike, maybe if you read it you would be in a better position to comment on the book, the author, and his character.

Given your tendency to insult people and their character and spread lies about them, you should really consider a job with Sinn Fein. Right now they are in overdrive mode blackening peoples names and character and with your vast experience, you would fit right in.

Dixie you said you didn't want to discuss this anymore with me and I was very happy to let you run away,but I am not prepared for you to call me a liar when debating with someone else and think you can without redress.Think this just shows the coward you are.You are the man who has been proven on this thread to be the person prepared to spread the lies of McIntyre and his cronies which in my book makes you even worse than the touts and liars that they are ,so you can go and sulk in the corner again but remember every time you come on this board with your lies I will be there to expose you for what you are.

Glens, may I once again remind you that you accused me doing something I didn't. I asked you to present the facts, and to date you havn't. I presented the facts to back up my position. You claimed I posted articles by Anthony McIntyre, I proved I didn't. So you see Glens, you were proven to be a liar.

Just to be crystal clear once and for all, these are the 2 links to articles by 2 men that I posted. Neither of whom are Anthony McIntyre, and neither of the articles are related to the Boston College project. And just to be crystal crystal clear for you, I will post them in full for you to see, and read.

I stand 100% behind my claims that you are a liar. I have proved that point beyond reasonable doubt.

If you disagree, sue me.

In the meantime, please stop spreading any more lies about me.

Article 1:

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/01/sinn-fein-councillor-refers-to-victims.html

Sinn Fein Councillor Refers to Victims of Suicide as 'Death Wanters.'

Thursday, January 09, 2014  AM  126 comments

Guest writer Thomas Dixie Elliot taking the media to task over its non responsiveness to a consistent patter on comments from Sinn Fein councillor Michael Henry McIvor, a frequent commenter on this blog.

Why are the media giving SF's Cookstown Councilor Michael Henry McIvor a fool's pardon in regards to the vile comments he repeatedly makes online?

He has gloated that 'dissident' groups haven't killed many Brits or cops, even in the Irish News/2006 (That's how I was able to link Michaelhenry to SF'S Michael McIvor of Cookstown).

He mocked the brutal murder of Paul Quinn and now refers to victims of suicide as "death wanters" who 'think they are to important to live' yet there is no outcry from anyone in the media or political circles.

Could you imagine the media outcry if any politician in any other political party North or South made such repugnant comments online?

Yet Michaelhenry aka Michael Henry McIvor seems for some reason to be given a fool's pardon?

For the record here is his full comment taken from The Pensive Quill...

    Don't know about other peoples attitude towards wakes and funerals but I find it as awkward as fcuk going to the wake of a person who as committed suicide and having to shake hands with the relatives and not having the words except 'sorry for your loss'- the last thing them familys wanted or needed was to find a son or daughter hanging in the shed - I think those death wanters think they are to important to live.


Post number 2:

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/our-revenge-will-be-laughter-of-our.html

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children....

Monday, October 21, 2013  AM  54 comments

Guest writer Gerard Hodgins with a piece asking questions of Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams in relation to allegations of covering up rape. Mr Hodgins is a former blanket man who took part in the 1981 Long Kesh hunger strike.


Gerry Adams is man very much in the public eye; he leads a political party in Ireland and was once the leader of The Republican Movement. He is a consummate politician who can play the media to his tune while evading and reinventing events to his interpretation. And when the media scrutiny gets too close to the bone he invokes the prerogatives of "private family affair" and "disgruntled opponents of the peace process".

A private family affair is just that and none should ever intrude publically into a private family affair, leaving it to the family to sort. When a cynical manipulator of the media chooses to milk a private family tragedy for a political end then that act is deserving of comment and questions.

In the first instance it has to be noted that when a report of child abuse was made to the RUC in 1987 the abuse allegation was overlooked for a leverage opening on the then leader of the republican movement. The child was abandoned by the very institutions of the state set up to safeguard and protect vulnerable children. That abandonment and indifference towards the plight of the child was compounded by its abandonment by the one uncle who could have made a difference.

In the aftermath of the Liam Adams trial and with the availability of documents and court records to give a deeper understanding of what precisely happened we are undoubtedly grateful that we live in the internet age when information is accessible pretty quickly before somebody dresses it up and presents it to us as something more akin to propaganda than fact.

The raw fact that Gerry contacted the Social Services the day after confronting Liam in Buncrana to complain that Aine was living in a dirty house and had nits rather than reporting her vulnerability to an abusive parent speaks volumes for the concern Gerry the man had towards Aine the child.

Further he only broke for cover when he discovered that Chris Moore was doing a documentary for UTV which would raise disturbing questions about his role in the saga. Having assessed the immediate impact of that documentary to be inimical to Big Gerry, he and his advisors called in Tommie Gorman from RTE a couple of days later when Gerry hung his own father out to hang in that infamous interview – which was designed to further cloudy the waters, engender sympathy for poor oul Gerry and stop people asking awkward questions.

The questions didn't stop though and when Suzanne Breen forensically dissected Gerry's whole account for The Sunday Tribune she exposed lie upon lie, deceit upon deceit in Gerry's accounts.

Not that many took notice, why let little things like facts get in the way of a good counter-revolution with electoral and financial gains still to be made -- such facts can be dismissed as the moaning of disgruntled opponents of the peace process.

But they came back again in crystallised form when a jury in Belfast found Liam Adams guilty of his crimes. And the reaction again from the Sinn Fein spin machine was to shoot the messengers. Journalists who covered the story are denigrated as lacking credibility and bona fides: it's all a personal witch-hunt against Big Gerry; it's the Brits; it's the securocrats.

But the most deafening silence has been the silence of absolutely nobody from within Sinn Fein asking a question. When the Catholic Church was being excoriated (and rightly so) for their proven institutional failures in relation to child protection and cover-ups of paedophile priests, Sinn Fein were out in front of the political posse biting at the heels of Cardinal Brady and his Bishops calling for resignations and no hiding place for people who turn their backs on children in such conditions.

I don't believe Sinn Fein internally though is such a united front around the Dear Leader who everybody loves and reveres; party strategists have to be considering the negative dynamics of going into elections with the stench of sexual abuse hanging over the party. Adams is clearly no longer the magical negotiator who could sell pork to the Arabs never mind sand, his cross examination exposed him as a faltering and unconvincing witness, more a liability than an asset hence his non-recall at the second trial.

Dismissing criticism of Gerry Adams as the outworking of opponents of the peace process is a cynical manipulation of the discursive format, It is not anti-peace to question the motivations and wisdom of a leader, it is not anti-peace to call out a snake oil-salesman on his inconsistencies and evasions. As republicans committed to a republic which cherishes all of the children equally we are obligated to raise voices of concern over the abandonment of a child and the subsequent media pantomime to present the unsavoury details in a manner favourable to Big Gerry the victim .....

Gerry lives in two worlds, he has told us so in his book "A Farther Shore", there is the fictional happy ending world where we swallow his version of history/events and then there is the other world, the world of truth and reality which we are not yet mature enough to handle. Referring to the hunger strike Adams comments:

    "A happy ending, finally, eventually, it seems to me is more important than a tell-all story now."

Like the hunger strike, his handling of sexual abuse allegations against a child leaves a lot more questions to be answered than clarity. There are no happy endings though: six men died unnecessarily in 1981 to get Adams into a lucrative lifestyle which has seen the poor boy from Ballymurphy move up the social ladder; abandoned child victims don't have happy endings, the memories never leave them. Then there is the matter of our patriot dead who died believing we were in this for the long haul while Gerry was secretly negotiating behind our backs to bring the war to a close. No happy endings......

We must continue to question though, to be silent is to be acquiescent. As republicans who once believed in and followed Gerry Adams we have every right to ask questions and demand full disclosure of all the secret dealings of the leadership of the Provisional high command. We deserve this and we earned the right to demand it when we stood against the British and endured all that they threw at us. It is time for the tell-all story now.

sue you !!!! Wise up,but you once again you prove that you did put up posts from the Pensive quill which is edited and the publication of Antony McIntrye a proven liar.A man who got vulnerable people to tout on their former comrades,who was involved in Proiry Hall which meant people lost everything and again I will state a FACtT that one young man took his own life because of this.McIntyre is total disgrace but your hatred for Adams and SF is so strong you are prepared to help spread his propaganda.About time you took a step back in your support form this mans lies and we might let sleeping dogs lie
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 02:31:42 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 08:58:18 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 12, 2014, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 12, 2014, 05:21:31 AM
When I seen the article by my friend  Matthias Chang I immediately posted the link and asked Muppet and others to comment. I didn't have the time to check the validity of his claims, and by asking others better versed on the subject, I got a general consensus. Despite not acknowledging the replies I received,  I took on board their opinions given that they knew a whole lot more than I did. I take that you noticed that I didn't mention the article again after I got my replies?

Mike, I hope by my responses I have clarified my position, and you can see where I am coming from

You didn't have time to check the validity of his claims ::) ..... Your intent was obvious i.e trolling a tragedy with shit-stirring geopolitics. Its disgusting. You should be ashamed.

Well, some good may come of this. You may be more careful about spamming the board with the rantings of your "friends".

Mike, I don't know what has happened in your life that has made you so bitter and twisted. You spew hatred and insulting remarks at me and others left right and centre every chance you get. You even put your dislike for Sinn Fein to the one side in order to back up a liar from the party in an attempt to insult me. You seen for yourself the evidence he was lying, but chose to ignore it and have a go at me.

In regards to Matthias Chang and his article he wrote, you jumped up and down on a moral soapbox to insult me and hurl personal abuse. May I remind you once again of the facts.

This was my original post Mike:

"Muppet, or anyone else a bit better versed on the subject, can you have a read at this article by a friend of mine in Malaysia.

http://beforeitsnews.com/u-s-politics/2014/04/malaysia-pm-top-aide-mh370-us-hidden-agenda-military-tests-unforgivable-2466278.html  "

Mike, Matthias Chang is a former political secretary to former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. He is also a highly respected human rights lawyer. Given that the missing airline is Malaysian, he had every right to publish an article, and I or others had every right to post it on a thread related to the missing flight.

I posted the link to his article and asked for others betters versed on the topic to have a look. I could of posted the article and said nothing Mike, but given the seriousness of the topic, I asked for help.

Not one single person apart from you took offence. In fact you went out of your way to try and find offence and came up with a link to one of his books in a feeble attempt to discredit him. Maybe you should have read the Barnes review on the book:

"A history-making book you'll find hard to put down. What makes Future Fastforward especially powerful and fascinating is that this is the first book critical of the New World Order and the Zionist-Anglo-American elite written by a former highranking official of a major foreign government to be published on American soil. A must read for all Americans who not only hope to have an understanding of the forces that led the United States into the world quagmire where it is today but who also pray for a better future, one in which the New World Order intriguers can be brought to heel". --Barnes Review

You never know Mike, maybe if you read it you would be in a better position to comment on the book, the author, and his character.

Given your tendency to insult people and their character and spread lies about them, you should really consider a job with Sinn Fein. Right now they are in overdrive mode blackening peoples names and character and with your vast experience, you would fit right in.

Dixie you said you didn't want to discuss this anymore with me and I was very happy to let you run away,but I am not prepared for you to call me a liar when debating with someone else and think you can without redress.Think this just shows the coward you are.You are the man who has been proven on this thread to be the person prepared to spread the lies of McIntyre and his cronies which in my book makes you even worse than the touts and liars that they are ,so you can go and sulk in the corner again but remember every time you come on this board with your lies I will be there to expose you for what you are.

Glens, may I once again remind you that you accused me doing something I didn't. I asked you to present the facts, and to date you havn't. I presented the facts to back up my position. You claimed I posted articles by Anthony McIntyre, I proved I didn't. So you see Glens, you were proven to be a liar.

Just to be crystal clear once and for all, these are the 2 links to articles by 2 men that I posted. Neither of whom are Anthony McIntyre, and neither of the articles are related to the Boston College project. And just to be crystal crystal clear for you, I will post them in full for you to see, and read.

I stand 100% behind my claims that you are a liar. I have proved that point beyond reasonable doubt.

If you disagree, sue me.

In the meantime, please stop spreading any more lies about me.

Article 1:

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/01/sinn-fein-councillor-refers-to-victims.html

Sinn Fein Councillor Refers to Victims of Suicide as 'Death Wanters.'

Thursday, January 09, 2014  AM  126 comments

Guest writer Thomas Dixie Elliot taking the media to task over its non responsiveness to a consistent patter on comments from Sinn Fein councillor Michael Henry McIvor, a frequent commenter on this blog.

Why are the media giving SF's Cookstown Councilor Michael Henry McIvor a fool's pardon in regards to the vile comments he repeatedly makes online?

He has gloated that 'dissident' groups haven't killed many Brits or cops, even in the Irish News/2006 (That's how I was able to link Michaelhenry to SF'S Michael McIvor of Cookstown).

He mocked the brutal murder of Paul Quinn and now refers to victims of suicide as "death wanters" who 'think they are to important to live' yet there is no outcry from anyone in the media or political circles.

Could you imagine the media outcry if any politician in any other political party North or South made such repugnant comments online?

Yet Michaelhenry aka Michael Henry McIvor seems for some reason to be given a fool's pardon?

For the record here is his full comment taken from The Pensive Quill...

    Don't know about other peoples attitude towards wakes and funerals but I find it as awkward as fcuk going to the wake of a person who as committed suicide and having to shake hands with the relatives and not having the words except 'sorry for your loss'- the last thing them familys wanted or needed was to find a son or daughter hanging in the shed - I think those death wanters think they are to important to live.


Post number 2:

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/our-revenge-will-be-laughter-of-our.html

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children....

Monday, October 21, 2013  AM  54 comments

Guest writer Gerard Hodgins with a piece asking questions of Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams in relation to allegations of covering up rape. Mr Hodgins is a former blanket man who took part in the 1981 Long Kesh hunger strike.


Gerry Adams is man very much in the public eye; he leads a political party in Ireland and was once the leader of The Republican Movement. He is a consummate politician who can play the media to his tune while evading and reinventing events to his interpretation. And when the media scrutiny gets too close to the bone he invokes the prerogatives of "private family affair" and "disgruntled opponents of the peace process".

A private family affair is just that and none should ever intrude publically into a private family affair, leaving it to the family to sort. When a cynical manipulator of the media chooses to milk a private family tragedy for a political end then that act is deserving of comment and questions.

In the first instance it has to be noted that when a report of child abuse was made to the RUC in 1987 the abuse allegation was overlooked for a leverage opening on the then leader of the republican movement. The child was abandoned by the very institutions of the state set up to safeguard and protect vulnerable children. That abandonment and indifference towards the plight of the child was compounded by its abandonment by the one uncle who could have made a difference.

In the aftermath of the Liam Adams trial and with the availability of documents and court records to give a deeper understanding of what precisely happened we are undoubtedly grateful that we live in the internet age when information is accessible pretty quickly before somebody dresses it up and presents it to us as something more akin to propaganda than fact.

The raw fact that Gerry contacted the Social Services the day after confronting Liam in Buncrana to complain that Aine was living in a dirty house and had nits rather than reporting her vulnerability to an abusive parent speaks volumes for the concern Gerry the man had towards Aine the child.

Further he only broke for cover when he discovered that Chris Moore was doing a documentary for UTV which would raise disturbing questions about his role in the saga. Having assessed the immediate impact of that documentary to be inimical to Big Gerry, he and his advisors called in Tommie Gorman from RTE a couple of days later when Gerry hung his own father out to hang in that infamous interview – which was designed to further cloudy the waters, engender sympathy for poor oul Gerry and stop people asking awkward questions.

The questions didn't stop though and when Suzanne Breen forensically dissected Gerry's whole account for The Sunday Tribune she exposed lie upon lie, deceit upon deceit in Gerry's accounts.

Not that many took notice, why let little things like facts get in the way of a good counter-revolution with electoral and financial gains still to be made -- such facts can be dismissed as the moaning of disgruntled opponents of the peace process.

But they came back again in crystallised form when a jury in Belfast found Liam Adams guilty of his crimes. And the reaction again from the Sinn Fein spin machine was to shoot the messengers. Journalists who covered the story are denigrated as lacking credibility and bona fides: it's all a personal witch-hunt against Big Gerry; it's the Brits; it's the securocrats.

But the most deafening silence has been the silence of absolutely nobody from within Sinn Fein asking a question. When the Catholic Church was being excoriated (and rightly so) for their proven institutional failures in relation to child protection and cover-ups of paedophile priests, Sinn Fein were out in front of the political posse biting at the heels of Cardinal Brady and his Bishops calling for resignations and no hiding place for people who turn their backs on children in such conditions.

I don't believe Sinn Fein internally though is such a united front around the Dear Leader who everybody loves and reveres; party strategists have to be considering the negative dynamics of going into elections with the stench of sexual abuse hanging over the party. Adams is clearly no longer the magical negotiator who could sell pork to the Arabs never mind sand, his cross examination exposed him as a faltering and unconvincing witness, more a liability than an asset hence his non-recall at the second trial.

Dismissing criticism of Gerry Adams as the outworking of opponents of the peace process is a cynical manipulation of the discursive format, It is not anti-peace to question the motivations and wisdom of a leader, it is not anti-peace to call out a snake oil-salesman on his inconsistencies and evasions. As republicans committed to a republic which cherishes all of the children equally we are obligated to raise voices of concern over the abandonment of a child and the subsequent media pantomime to present the unsavoury details in a manner favourable to Big Gerry the victim .....

Gerry lives in two worlds, he has told us so in his book "A Farther Shore", there is the fictional happy ending world where we swallow his version of history/events and then there is the other world, the world of truth and reality which we are not yet mature enough to handle. Referring to the hunger strike Adams comments:

    "A happy ending, finally, eventually, it seems to me is more important than a tell-all story now."

Like the hunger strike, his handling of sexual abuse allegations against a child leaves a lot more questions to be answered than clarity. There are no happy endings though: six men died unnecessarily in 1981 to get Adams into a lucrative lifestyle which has seen the poor boy from Ballymurphy move up the social ladder; abandoned child victims don't have happy endings, the memories never leave them. Then there is the matter of our patriot dead who died believing we were in this for the long haul while Gerry was secretly negotiating behind our backs to bring the war to a close. No happy endings......

We must continue to question though, to be silent is to be acquiescent. As republicans who once believed in and followed Gerry Adams we have every right to ask questions and demand full disclosure of all the secret dealings of the leadership of the Provisional high command. We deserve this and we earned the right to demand it when we stood against the British and endured all that they threw at us. It is time for the tell-all story now.

Great to see now O'Rawe suing Boston college  ;D ;only wanted his lies to be heard after his death,balls or what. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 13, 2014, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 04:36:57 PM
Great to see now O'Rawe suing Boston college  ;D ;only wanted his lies to be heard after his death,balls or what. ;D ;D
You obviously haven't read his book. A great piece of fiction although I still prefer the Harry Potter series.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 05:20:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 13, 2014, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 04:36:57 PM
Great to see now O'Rawe suing Boston college  ;D ;only wanted his lies to be heard after his death,balls or what. ;D ;D
You obviously haven't read his book. A great piece of fiction although I still prefer the Harry Potter series.

I wouldn't waste my time to read that but no doubt Dixie will post extracts or maybe he already has.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 13, 2014, 05:29:12 PM
Must be time to close the Gens/Dixie spat. :-X
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 13, 2014, 09:06:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 13, 2014, 05:29:12 PM
Must be time to close the Gens/Dixie spat. :-X

Dixie closed it which I was happy enough with but then came back sniping at me when debating with somebody else. He can't have it both ways,but I am happy to let it go now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 13, 2014, 11:44:32 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
You seen for yourself the evidence he was lying, but chose to ignore it and have a go at me.

Lets boil your dispute with Glens abu to its essence. your whole schtick is that he accused you of posting "articles by McIntyre" when the articles were written by guest writers. The website in McIntyres BLOGSITE, his name is in BIG BOLD LETTERS immediately above the articles. He is responsible for those articles, fullstop.

Your defence is like UKIP saying "nothing to do with us gov'nor" whenever some loony party underling goes off on a racist rant and lets the mask slip. They are fooling no-one and neither are you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 13, 2014, 11:47:28 PM
However, that spat is between you and Glens Abu. In my dispute with you I am straight out calling you a liar. You lied about your intent. You posted a ridiculous shit stirring rant by a known anti-Semite and tried to pass it off as some innocent query.

Now, as for this...
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
Matthias Chang is a former political secretary to former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. He is also a highly respected human rights lawyer

Yes, everybody knows that Malaysia is a bastion of human rights, especially under Mahathir Mohamads rule. Nope, no activists or opposition members were ever persecuted under his rule, no siree......  ::)

It gets worse though, you post this excrement as a supposed "review" of Changs book..
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
"". --Barnes ReviewA history-making book you'll find hard to put down. What makes Future Fastforward especially powerful and fascinating is that this is the first book critical of the New World Order and the Zionist-Anglo-American elite written by a former highranking official of a major foreign government to be published on American soil. A must read for all Americans who not only hope to have an understanding of the forces that led the United States into the world quagmire where it is today but who also pray for a better future, one in which the New World Order intriguers can be brought to heel

This "review" appears unattributed in other places and is obviously either written by Chang himself or a close friend. Is there a connection between Chang and Barnes review I wonder ? Well, surprise , surprise, Chang , on his own website, praises profusely that very same publication for inviting him to their conference. So what is this conference and who are these nice people at the barnes review ?

Oh, they are just your standard 9-11 conspiracy theorists, jailed German holocaust deniers..wives of jailed German holocaust deniers
http://www.americanfreepress.net/AFP_2006_conference.pdf (http://www.americanfreepress.net/AFP_2006_conference.pdf)

that's the American free press crowd......I wonder whats on the barnes review website ? ...lets have a look....

http://www.barnesreview.org/ (http://www.barnesreview.org/)

Oh look, here is a "free holocaust handbook brochure" !! get one for the kids. Here is some background information on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Heres a book about "Ancient whites from Siberia"....Here is a book about Hitler, apparently its a myth that he was a coward.
Theres more....Auschwitz was black propaganda, Treblinka was just a transit point

They are f*%$£^ing Nazis you idiot. I can't believe that you were stupid enough to post a review from them. Seafoid is facepalming himself right now because you have just given the game away completely. This is proof positive. Anyone that denies that you two are raving anti-semites, holocaust deniers and Nazi-sympathizers is either blind, wilfully stupid or a fellow traveller.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 14, 2014, 12:04:07 AM
This is starting to look like the Cork hurlers' strike thread of a few years ago. I think it go to 500 pages.

I miss Reillers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 14, 2014, 03:12:11 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 13, 2014, 11:47:28 PM
However, that spat is between you and Glens Abu. In my dispute with you I am straight out calling you a liar. You lied about your intent. You posted a ridiculous shit stirring rant by a known anti-Semite and tried to pass it off as some innocent query.

Now, as for this...
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
Matthias Chang is a former political secretary to former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. He is also a highly respected human rights lawyer

Yes, everybody knows that Malaysia is a bastion of human rights, especially under Mahathir Mohamads rule. Nope, no activists or opposition members were ever persecuted under his rule, no siree......  ::)

It gets worse though, you post this excrement as a supposed "review" of Changs book..
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
"". --Barnes ReviewA history-making book you'll find hard to put down. What makes Future Fastforward especially powerful and fascinating is that this is the first book critical of the New World Order and the Zionist-Anglo-American elite written by a former highranking official of a major foreign government to be published on American soil. A must read for all Americans who not only hope to have an understanding of the forces that led the United States into the world quagmire where it is today but who also pray for a better future, one in which the New World Order intriguers can be brought to heel

This "review" appears unattributed in other places and is obviously either written by Chang himself or a close friend. Is there a connection between Chang and Barnes review I wonder ? Well, surprise , surprise, Chang , on his own website, praises profusely that very same publication for inviting him to their conference. So what is this conference and who are these nice people at the barnes review ?

Oh, they are just your standard 9-11 conspiracy theorists, jailed German holocaust deniers..wives of jailed German holocaust deniers
http://www.americanfreepress.net/AFP_2006_conference.pdf (http://www.americanfreepress.net/AFP_2006_conference.pdf)

that's the American free press crowd......I wonder whats on the barnes review website ? ...lets have a look....

http://www.barnesreview.org/ (http://www.barnesreview.org/)

Oh look, here is a "free holocaust handbook brochure" !! get one for the kids. Here is some background information on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Heres a book about "Ancient whites from Siberia"....Here is a book about Hitler, apparently its a myth that he was a coward.
Theres more....Auschwitz was black propaganda, Treblinka was just a transit point

They are f*%$£^ing Nazis you idiot. I can't believe that you were stupid enough to post a review from them. Seafoid is facepalming himself right now because you have just given the game away completely. This is proof positive. Anyone that denies that you two are raving anti-semites, holocaust deniers and Nazi-sympathizers is either blind, wilfully stupid or a fellow traveller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Godwin's law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches "—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

Promulgated by American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's Law originally referred, specifically, to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms and blog comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles and other rhetoric
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 14, 2014, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 14, 2014, 09:24:30 AM
....and is, for some bizarre reason, seen as a valid counter argument to anyone being compared to the Nazis or Hitler on internet discussion sites.

Let's hope a wee man with a moustache doesn't rise in Germany and try to take over the world again. The discussions on internet sites won't get very far.

Was thinking the same thing myself. It's as if invoking Godwins law somehow inures someone against the charge.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2014, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 14, 2014, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 14, 2014, 09:24:30 AM
....and is, for some bizarre reason, seen as a valid counter argument to anyone being compared to the Nazis or Hitler on internet discussion sites.

Let's hope a wee man with a moustache doesn't rise in Germany and try to take over the world again. The discussions on internet sites won't get very far.

Was thinking the same thing myself. It's as if invoking Godwins law somehow inures someone against the charge.
Calling other posters Nazi sympathisers, anti semites and Holocaust deniers is not acceptable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 14, 2014, 10:28:15 AM
That's also true.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2014, 12:28:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2014, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 14, 2014, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 14, 2014, 09:24:30 AM
....and is, for some bizarre reason, seen as a valid counter argument to anyone being compared to the Nazis or Hitler on internet discussion sites.

Let's hope a wee man with a moustache doesn't rise in Germany and try to take over the world again. The discussions on internet sites won't get very far.

Was thinking the same thing myself. It's as if invoking Godwins law somehow inures someone against the charge.
Calling other posters Nazi sympathisers, anti semites and Holocaust deniers is not acceptable.

Calling other posters Nazi sympathisers, anti semites and Holocaust deniers when they are not any of these things is not acceptable.

Calling other posters Nazi sympathisers, anti semites and Holocaust deniers when when it is perfectly obvious that is what they are is not only acceptable but it is a duty of any right thinking person.

Do you expect people to catch you wearing swastikas and goosestpping around the kitchen before they call you out for what you are ?  We all know Niemollers quote "First they cam for the socialists and I did not speak out...etc"

I have given you many opportunities to defend yourself against this accusation, most recently when I asked you to explain what you meant by "Europes Jewish problem" . You consistently refuse to engage and merely post link upon link.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 14, 2014, 12:32:01 PM
In fairness Mike, that's a bit out of order. Where is the proof of the Nazi sympathising or the Holocaust denials from the lads? As regards anti semitism, I'm sure they'd say they are anti Israel/Israeli policy as opposed to anti Jewish.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2014, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 14, 2014, 03:12:11 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 13, 2014, 11:47:28 PM
However, that spat is between you and Glens Abu. In my dispute with you I am straight out calling you a liar. You lied about your intent. You posted a ridiculous shit stirring rant by a known anti-Semite and tried to pass it off as some innocent query.

Now, as for this...
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
Matthias Chang is a former political secretary to former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. He is also a highly respected human rights lawyer

Yes, everybody knows that Malaysia is a bastion of human rights, especially under Mahathir Mohamads rule. Nope, no activists or opposition members were ever persecuted under his rule, no siree......  ::)

It gets worse though, you post this excrement as a supposed "review" of Changs book..
Quote from: give her dixie on May 13, 2014, 05:30:35 AM
"". --Barnes ReviewA history-making book you'll find hard to put down. What makes Future Fastforward especially powerful and fascinating is that this is the first book critical of the New World Order and the Zionist-Anglo-American elite written by a former highranking official of a major foreign government to be published on American soil. A must read for all Americans who not only hope to have an understanding of the forces that led the United States into the world quagmire where it is today but who also pray for a better future, one in which the New World Order intriguers can be brought to heel

This "review" appears unattributed in other places and is obviously either written by Chang himself or a close friend. Is there a connection between Chang and Barnes review I wonder ? Well, surprise , surprise, Chang , on his own website, praises profusely that very same publication for inviting him to their conference. So what is this conference and who are these nice people at the barnes review ?

Oh, they are just your standard 9-11 conspiracy theorists, jailed German holocaust deniers..wives of jailed German holocaust deniers
http://www.americanfreepress.net/AFP_2006_conference.pdf (http://www.americanfreepress.net/AFP_2006_conference.pdf)

that's the American free press crowd......I wonder whats on the barnes review website ? ...lets have a look....

http://www.barnesreview.org/ (http://www.barnesreview.org/)

Oh look, here is a "free holocaust handbook brochure" !! get one for the kids. Here is some background information on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Heres a book about "Ancient whites from Siberia"....Here is a book about Hitler, apparently its a myth that he was a coward.
Theres more....Auschwitz was black propaganda, Treblinka was just a transit point

They are f*%$£^ing Nazis you idiot. I can't believe that you were stupid enough to post a review from them. Seafoid is facepalming himself right now because you have just given the game away completely. This is proof positive. Anyone that denies that you two are raving anti-semites, holocaust deniers and Nazi-sympathizers is either blind, wilfully stupid or a fellow traveller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Godwin's law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches "—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

Promulgated by American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's Law originally referred, specifically, to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms and blog comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles and other rhetoric

Once again you revert back to quoting others without giving any explanation or context as to how the quote relates to your argument.

What were you thinking quoting that website ? They are so obviously Aryan supremacists that it is a joke that you could think otherwise. These are the people you get your moral bearings from. These are your "friends"

Mother of god  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 14, 2014, 12:43:04 PM
Just when we thought it was safe now that Dixie/Gelns were on a ceasefire we now have the Kerry Zionist attacking anyone who doesn't share his love of Israel.
Any chance the Mods could issue a few black cards  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 14, 2014, 12:32:01 PM
In fairness Mike, that's a bit out of order. Where is the proof of the Nazi sympathising or the Holocaust denials from the lads? As regards anti semitism, I'm sure they'd say they are anti Israel/Israeli policy as opposed to anti Jewish.

Fair enough. Lets hear them so, once and for all, unequivocally , in their own words with no quoted statements etc state their position on

1) The Barnes review
2) "Europes Jewish problem"

lets start with that and see where we go.

I know you lads think I am being too agressive and you are right, to an extent, however, it is a deliberate tactic to flush them out. I'm
tired of the quoting and the evasiveness
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2014, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2014, 12:43:04 PM
Just when we thought it was safe now that Dixie/Gelns were on a ceasefire we now have the Kerry Zionist attacking anyone who doesn't share his love of Israel.
Any chance the Mods could issue a few black cards  ;D

Israel have committed war crimes and have treated the Palestinians abhorrently. The settlements are illegal. The IDF behave like thugs toward Palestinians. Ultra-Orthodox extremists exert an undue influence in Israeli society. I have no problem with sanctions against Israel if that moderates their position. Palestinians have as much of a right to live in Israel as jews. Discrimination against Palestinians is rife amongst Israelies. 

In fact, I will go a step further and make a statement which will surprise you. I wish the state of Israel did not exist. Yup. I actually said that. There is a reason , however, that the state of Israel must exist and if Seafoid ever has the guts to reply and clarify his "Europes Jewish problem" statement then you will see why.

So, that is my position on the state of Israel so now you need to explain how I am a zionist Rossfan.

Come on, lets be havin' you.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on May 14, 2014, 02:06:09 PM
Could someone please post the caption of Mickey Jackson eating the popcorn!  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 14, 2014, 04:52:06 PM
Mike, it is really sad that you and Glens have resorted to scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to satisfy both your in depth hatred towards me. What have I done on you or Glens that has warranted such a sustained attack on my character? To be honest, I expected nothing less from you, but to have an official Sinn Fein representative resort to lying about me and trying at every opportunity to tar me with a broad brush with ties to Anthony McIntyre, Priory Hall, the death of a resident, and the death of Ronan Kerr is beyond pathetic.

You went one better and tied me to Hitler, the Nazi's and holocaust denial. How can grown men resort to such childish behavior? Do you both get a kick out of attacking someones character by concocting untrue stories?

Given that we have now seen that it is official Sinn Fein policy to call everyone a tout in relation to the Boston Tapes, and then to throw the net out and tar anyone else they can think of that might have some remote connection to those involved is beyond pathetic. It's the work of immature people, not that of a party wishing people to take serious and put into Government to run the country.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to be ruled by a group of bully boys or thugs who have no problem sinking to any low in order to discredit someone who has a different view point from them. They are acting like a cult, not a democratic political party.  Sometimes it hard to tell the difference between here and North Korea.

Currently on this forum, across social media, and on many walls around West Belfast are claims of tout this and tout that. To the best of my knowledge, not one of these posters have had the courage or conviction to go onto Anthony McIntyres blog and pose those claims to him personally. It takes a coward to hide behind a computer and make false claims about someone. Anyone with an ounce of conviction would ask Anthony direct.

Mike, you missed the point of my argument with Glens. Proving that he was a liar was easy as he claimed I posted articles by Anthony McIntyre. I proved I didn't. However, that as I say was part of the issue. My main gripe was centered on how he tried to link me to Priory Hall, Ronan Kerr, the Boston Tapes, and the wild and dangerous claims that he made about my family. Given that I am publicy known on the forum and many posters personally know me and my family, he had no right or evidence to say what he said. This is what he said Mike in relation to my post on Sinn Fein fiddling expenses:

Quote from: glens abu on January 31, 2014, 04:00:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 31, 2014, 05:07:11 AM
Sinn Fein arn't behind the door when it comes to renting at "highly inflated" prices:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5301510/MPs-expenses-Sinn-Fein-claimed-500000-for-second-homes.html

You keep an eye on the brother in laws with the money down your part of the world Dixie.

Another occasion he had this to say:

Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 08:51:40 PM
QuoteOnce upon a time Sinn Fein stood for peace with justice.

Now they stand for votes........

THis is the kind of manure often associated with this topic. People want peace, and justice, so there is no great conflict between the two objectives.

Can you give us any examples of their quest for Justice?

mcGurks,Ballymurphy,Finucane for a start.Dublin and Monaghan,Loughinisland. How many do you want now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in.

These are scandalous claims to make, as I have said, given that I am publicly known, very dangerous claims to make. Claims that are baseless and without any merit. Again, this is an Official Representative of Sinn Fein.

Instead of you ploughing into the conversation with claims to tie me to Hitler and holocaust denial, maybe you could have found this open and frank admission by Anthony McIntyre about his role in Priory Hall and his employment with Tom McFeeley.

http://thepensivequill.am/2011/11/experience.html

Instead of fanning the flames of hatred and spite, you could have posted a comment from the comments section from a former resident who had this to say:

"Anthony,

As a resident (ex-resident!) of Priory Hall, I believe that you genuinely did attempt to resolve the problems which existed in the development.

Unfortunately the full extent of the problems only really came to light afterwards and they had their beginnings during the design and construction stage, of which you played no part.

While you were involved in Priory Hall, I maintained a small hope that things would improve. I had had significant dealings with two of your predecessors and when you came on board (for me your involvement started in The Marine Hotel in Sutton, Co. Dublin late one night) I thought there was a possibility that some level of real progress would be made.

For what it is worth, you always treated me with utmost respect and kept me informed of your progress on the site and the frustrations which you were encountering. I always found you to be approachable and always believed that you would take resident's comments (however helpful or unhelpful they may have been!) on board.

Wishing you and your family well for the future,
Paul."

And when you were at it you could have posted this article by his wife as she looked back on the murder by the IRA of Joe O'Connor in Belfast, and the brutal intimidation they received by the bully boys led by Bobby Storey. Very brave men indeed when in a group of thugs facing a pregnant woman.

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/killing-joe-oconnor.html#more

Instead of going onto the Liverpool thread to throw up the immoral decision by Sinn Fein to support Caterpillar, maybe Glens could have wrote a letter to Gerry Adams and asked him why he decided to support them despite the fact that ALL the members of Sinn Fein voted to boycott Caterpillar? And while he was at it, he could also have asked Gerry why Sinn Fein teamed up the TUV, UUP and DUP on Moyle council to scrap the historic twinning agreement with Gaza? After all, he claims to be a supporter of Palestine, and so do his party. They like to make political capital out of the Palestinians any chance they can, but when push comes to shove, they back away as they put their relationship with wealthy and powerful US politicians and capitalists first.

"All animals are equal, but some are more equal to others"

I have shown Glens up to be a liar, and now he is starting to bring Richard O'Rawe into his wild fantasies and link my name to Richard. He is ready to kick Richard up and down the road and claim all sorts of wild things about him. He has already stated as fact that Richards tape is full of lies. How does he know they are lies? Easy. Gerry and Sinn Fein told him. He hasn't an IQ high enough to figure it out for himself.

The continued use of the word tout is disgusting, wether it is in relation to me or others. I am old enough to know what it means, and what it means to people accused of been one. It is a word from a dark time in our history that should have been consigned to the dustbin years ago. Sinn Fein can't string 2 sentences together without saying "Peace Process" 10 times. Yet, here we have an official representative repeating the word and allegations on a repeated basis. He is only repeating what the leadership is repeatedly saying. It is beyond pathetic. It is in fact very dangerous and threatening. And they claim they are fit for Government?

Mary Lou and Gerry made political hay out of supporting the whistle blowers in the Gardi. How do you think they would react if the leader of Fine Gael or Finna Fail were to send out a tweet calling them touts?

Currently in 10 different locations across West Belfast there is graffiti calling people and the Boston project touts. Sinn Fein have yet to say one single word about it other than to encourage it. They were quick to condemn the graffiti in east Belfast against the Polish, and they were tripping over themselves to condemn the banner on Black Mountain calling for "One Ireland, one vote"

As I have previously stated, I have no connection with Anthony McIntyre. However, I will not stand by and watch as Sinn Fein officials and politicians take to the airwaves, internet and walls in an attempt to discredit me or others and use the word tout like its going out of fashion. What sort of person would I be if I just sat in silence and said nothing? Sinn Fein would rather a lot of people sat back and shut up. I am not one of them.

Sinn Fein like to call their opponents "people masquerading a republicans". What we have seen from them on here and elsewhere is that it is they who are masquerading as republicans. Their actions, and that of their official representative on here is not only an insult to me and others, but an insult to humanity. Shame on them for what they are doing, and continuing to do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 14, 2014, 05:23:34 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2014, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2014, 12:43:04 PM
Just when we thought it was safe now that Dixie/Gelns were on a ceasefire we now have the Kerry Zionist attacking anyone who doesn't share his love of Israel.
Any chance the Mods could issue a few black cards  ;D

Israel have committed war crimes and have treated the Palestinians abhorrently. The settlements are illegal. The IDF behave like thugs toward Palestinians. Ultra-Orthodox extremists exert an undue influence in Israeli society. I have no problem with sanctions against Israel if that moderates their position. Palestinians have as much of a right to live in Israel as jews. Discrimination against Palestinians is rife amongst Israelies. 

In fact, I will go a step further and make a statement which will surprise you. I wish the state of Israel did not exist. Yup. I actually said that. There is a reason , however, that the state of Israel must exist and if Seafoid ever has the guts to reply and clarify his "Europes Jewish problem" statement then you will see why.

So, that is my position on the state of Israel so now you need to explain how I am a zionist Rossfan.

I was going on the circumstantial evidence - if it quacks like a duck and all that.
If the above is a true reflection of your views then I'll go with that and say "Sheehy's not a Zionist because...see his comments above"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2014, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 14, 2014, 12:32:01 PM
In fairness Mike, that's a bit out of order. Where is the proof of the Nazi sympathising or the Holocaust denials from the lads? As regards anti semitism, I'm sure they'd say they are anti Israel/Israeli policy as opposed to anti Jewish.

Fair enough. Lets hear them so, once and for all, unequivocally , in their own words with no quoted statements etc state their position on

1) The Barnes review
2) "Europes Jewish problem"

lets start with that and see where we go.

I know you lads think I am being too agressive and you are right, to an extent, however, it is a deliberate tactic to flush them out. I'm
tired of the quoting and the evasiveness
You never came back to me on the Apeldoorn Jewish mental hospital. Why is Anne Frank the poster child of the Holocaust in the Netherlands?
Europe had a Jewish problem- it never accepted Jews as equals until it was too late. Why ?
Europe also has a Roma problem today. Why can't they be accepted as the same as everyone else ? 
 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 14, 2014, 05:33:58 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 14, 2014, 04:52:06 PM
Mike, it is really sad that you and Glens have resorted to scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to satisfy both your in depth hatred towards me. What have I done on you or Glens that has warranted such a sustained attack on my character? To be honest, I expected nothing less from you, but to have an official Sinn Fein representative resort to lying about me and trying at every opportunity to tar me with a broad brush with ties to Anthony McIntyre, Priory Hall, the death of a resident, and the death of Ronan Kerr is beyond pathetic.

You went one better and tied me to Hitler, the Nazi's and holocaust denial. How can grown men resort to such childish behavior? Do you both get a kick out of attacking someones character by concocting untrue stories?

Given that we have now seen that it is official Sinn Fein policy to call everyone a tout in relation to the Boston Tapes, and then to throw the net out and tar anyone else they can think of that might have some remote connection to those involved is beyond pathetic. It's the work of immature people, not that of a party wishing people to take serious and put into Government to run the country.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to be ruled by a group of bully boys or thugs who have no problem sinking to any low in order to discredit someone who has a different view point from them. They are acting like a cult, not a democratic political party.  Sometimes it hard to tell the difference between here and North Korea.

Currently on this forum, across social media, and on many walls around West Belfast are claims of tout this and tout that. To the best of my knowledge, not one of these posters have had the courage or conviction to go onto Anthony McIntyres blog and pose those claims to him personally. It takes a coward to hide behind a computer and make false claims about someone. Anyone with an ounce of conviction would ask Anthony direct.

Mike, you missed the point of my argument with Glens. Proving that he was a liar was easy as he claimed I posted articles by Anthony McIntyre. I proved I didn't. However, that as I say was part of the issue. My main gripe was centered on how he tried to link me to Priory Hall, Ronan Kerr, the Boston Tapes, and the wild and dangerous claims that he made about my family. Given that I am publicy known on the forum and many posters personally know me and my family, he had no right or evidence to say what he said. This is what he said Mike in relation to my post on Sinn Fein fiddling expenses:

Quote from: glens abu on January 31, 2014, 04:00:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 31, 2014, 05:07:11 AM
Sinn Fein arn't behind the door when it comes to renting at "highly inflated" prices:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5301510/MPs-expenses-Sinn-Fein-claimed-500000-for-second-homes.html

You keep an eye on the brother in laws with the money down your part of the world Dixie.

Another occasion he had this to say:

Quote from: glens abu on April 13, 2014, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 13, 2014, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 08:51:40 PM
QuoteOnce upon a time Sinn Fein stood for peace with justice.

Now they stand for votes........

THis is the kind of manure often associated with this topic. People want peace, and justice, so there is no great conflict between the two objectives.

Can you give us any examples of their quest for Justice?

mcGurks,Ballymurphy,Finucane for a start.Dublin and Monaghan,Loughinisland. How many do you want now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in.

These are scandalous claims to make, as I have said, given that I am publicly known, very dangerous claims to make. Claims that are baseless and without any merit. Again, this is an Official Representative of Sinn Fein.

Instead of you ploughing into the conversation with claims to tie me to Hitler and holocaust denial, maybe you could have found this open and frank admission by Anthony McIntyre about his role in Priory Hall and his employment with Tom McFeeley.

http://thepensivequill.am/2011/11/experience.html

Instead of fanning the flames of hatred and spite, you could have posted a comment from the comments section from a former resident who had this to say:

"Anthony,

As a resident (ex-resident!) of Priory Hall, I believe that you genuinely did attempt to resolve the problems which existed in the development.

Unfortunately the full extent of the problems only really came to light afterwards and they had their beginnings during the design and construction stage, of which you played no part.

While you were involved in Priory Hall, I maintained a small hope that things would improve. I had had significant dealings with two of your predecessors and when you came on board (for me your involvement started in The Marine Hotel in Sutton, Co. Dublin late one night) I thought there was a possibility that some level of real progress would be made.

For what it is worth, you always treated me with utmost respect and kept me informed of your progress on the site and the frustrations which you were encountering. I always found you to be approachable and always believed that you would take resident's comments (however helpful or unhelpful they may have been!) on board.

Wishing you and your family well for the future,
Paul."

And when you were at it you could have posted this article by his wife as she looked back on the murder by the IRA of Joe O'Connor in Belfast, and the brutal intimidation they received by the bully boys led by Bobby Storey. Very brave men indeed when in a group of thugs facing a pregnant woman.

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/killing-joe-oconnor.html#more

Instead of going onto the Liverpool thread to throw up the immoral decision by Sinn Fein to support Caterpillar, maybe Glens could have wrote a letter to Gerry Adams and asked him why he decided to support them despite the fact that ALL the members of Sinn Fein voted to boycott Caterpillar? And while he was at it, he could also have asked Gerry why Sinn Fein teamed up the TUV, UUP and DUP on Moyle council to scrap the historic twinning agreement with Gaza? After all, he claims to be a supporter of Palestine, and so do his party. They like to make political capital out of the Palestinians any chance they can, but when push comes to shove, they back away as they put their relationship with wealthy and powerful US politicians and capitalists first.

"All animals are equal, but some are more equal to others"

I have shown Glens up to be a liar, and now he is starting to bring Richard O'Rawe into his wild fantasies and link my name to Richard. He is ready to kick Richard up and down the road and claim all sorts of wild things about him. He has already stated as fact that Richards tape is full of lies. How does he know they are lies? Easy. Gerry and Sinn Fein told him. He hasn't an IQ high enough to figure it out for himself.

The continued use of the word tout is disgusting, wether it is in relation to me or others. I am old enough to know what it means, and what it means to people accused of been one. It is a word from a dark time in our history that should have been consigned to the dustbin years ago. Sinn Fein can't string 2 sentences together without saying "Peace Process" 10 times. Yet, here we have an official representative repeating the word and allegations on a repeated basis. He is only repeating what the leadership is repeatedly saying. It is beyond pathetic. It is in fact very dangerous and threatening. And they claim they are fit for Government?

Mary Lou and Gerry made political hay out of supporting the whistle blowers in the Gardi. How do you think they would react if the leader of Fine Gael or Finna Fail were to send out a tweet calling them touts?

Currently in 10 different locations across West Belfast there is graffiti calling people and the Boston project touts. Sinn Fein have yet to say one single word about it other than to encourage it. They were quick to condemn the graffiti in east Belfast against the Polish, and they were tripping over themselves to condemn the banner on Black Mountain calling for "One Ireland, one vote"

As I have previously stated, I have no connection with Anthony McIntyre. However, I will not stand by and watch as Sinn Fein officials and politicians take to the airwaves, internet and walls in an attempt to discredit me or others and use the word tout like its going out of fashion. What sort of person would I be if I just sat in silence and said nothing? Sinn Fein would rather a lot of people sat back and shut up. I am not one of them.

Sinn Fein like to call their opponents "people masquerading a republicans". What we have seen from them on here and elsewhere is that it is they who are masquerading as republicans. Their actions, and that of their official representative on here is not only an insult to me and others, but an insult to humanity. Shame on them for what they are doing, and continuing to do.

oh my God what a rant,don't be leaving the sinking ship now Dixie you can't come on here after months quoting from McIntyre's rag and now when he and his band of men are in hiding because of the shame you want to deny them.They are a disgrace and are being shunned within the Republican/Nationalistt community,now I don't agree with graffiti being painted on walls but sometimes it's hard to suppress people's anger and if is the only way they can show it who can blame them.The one good thing about this dabate you are no longer hiding behind McIntyre's pettycoat but have at least been honest showing your hatred for the Shinners.Good luck with that you are in good company.//
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on May 14, 2014, 07:57:17 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 10, 2014, 02:56:29 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on May 10, 2014, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.
+1

Four years since you last posted on this board,what do you know about me to agree with that rant?
Just because I didn't post in that time doesn't mean I didn't read anything here. Have seen enough of your work in this and related threads to conclude that those parts of his post certainly ring true. Petty, snide, sneering, juvenile, blinkered, all words which would adequately describe your posts for me, can't see past anything that SF tells you is fact.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 14, 2014, 08:42:30 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on May 14, 2014, 07:57:17 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 10, 2014, 02:56:29 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on May 10, 2014, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 08:31:43 PM
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with something Sinn Fein say or do they are automatically labelled. They are either a dissident, anti peace process, a drunk, not well, opposed to change, looking to drag us back to the dark days, etc etc? Is Sinn Fein right all the time and the rest of the people wrong? Is no one allowed to think for themselves and make up their own mind on things instead of believing everything that Sinn Fein tell them to believe?

As a representative of Sinn Fein you do yourself and your party no favors on this site. You continually call people names and show zero respect for any of your political opponents. How you come across on this site is no different to what the leadership showed us at the weekend. Once you deviate away from the Sinn Fein spin, the veil slips and we see you and the parties true colours. There are a few others on here that are not members of Sinn Fein that can defend the party and their politicians with more respect and dignity than you could ever hope to. Maybe you could learn from them.
+1

Four years since you last posted on this board,what do you know about me to agree with that rant?
Just because I didn't post in that time doesn't mean I didn't read anything here. Have seen enough of your work in this and related threads to conclude that those parts of his post certainly ring true. Petty, snide, sneering, juvenile, blinkered, all words which would adequately describe your posts for me, can't see past anything that SF tells you is fact.

:-*
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 15, 2014, 12:05:32 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2014, 05:31:47 PM
You never came back to me on the Apeldoorn Jewish mental hospital. Why is Anne Frank the poster child of the Holocaust in the Netherlands?
Europe had a Jewish problem- it never accepted Jews as equals until it was too late. Why ?
Europe also has a Roma problem today. Why can't they be accepted as the same as everyone else ? 

I DID come back to you on Apeldoorn.Here was my response

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 26, 2014, 12:45:24 AM
What is the significance of Appeldoorn ? I think you are justifying anti-Semitism on the basis of how jews treated fellow jews with mental illness  ? That is a strange justification.

I honestly don't know what the significance of Apeldoorn is for you. The only thing I could think of is that you disapproved of the way Jewish people put other Jewish people in shoddy mental hospitals, is that it ?????  why don't you explain the significance of Apeldoorn as you see it. (Here is the link Seafoid posted so that others know what we are talking about)
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/apeldoornsebos.html (http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/apeldoornsebos.html)

Anne Frank was a 15 year old girl who kept a diary while desperately trying to hide out from Nazis and who, ultimately died in a concentration camp. This strikes a chord with people. It doesn't mean other victims are lesser, it is simply a heartbreaking story. Did you really need me to explain that to you ?

As for this weak , obtuse response
"Europe had a Jewish problem- it never accepted Jews as equals until it was too late. Why ? "

Why can't you just speak the truth plainly...Europes "jewish problem" was a lot more than "equality" there is a big differnence between simply treating people as inferior and wanting to wipe them from the face of the earth. Vicious anti-Semitism was and still is the problem. Why are people anti-Semite ?....beats the hell out of me, you are in a better position to answer that question. The origins, of course, were the usual stupid religious reasons , Christ killer etc, etc....   

Now, just so it is explicit, I am making the following statement
"Europes 'Jewish problem' is the problem of irrational hatred by anti-semites. The jewish people themselves have no case to answer. There is no worldwide jewish conspiracy."

I'm sure you can agree on that statement ?

Finally, I am glad you brought up the Roma because there are many parallels between their story and the persecution of the jews. I can assure you wholeheartedly that if someone had posted over 3000 posts on other websites as well as 100's of posts on gaaboard about the Roma I would come down on them like a tonne of bricks as well. I would be very suspicious about why they would be so obsessed with the Roma in particular. Those are the key words...it is the particularity of your obsession that troubles me. It is not rational.

Now, what are your views on "The Barnes Review"......? Would you consider that to be an anti-Semitic site and would be agree that anyone quoting from that site is an anti-Semite (or, at the very least,  it is STRONGLY suggestive of an anti-Semitic viewpoint)


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 15, 2014, 12:20:13 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 14, 2014, 04:52:06 PM
Mike, it is really sad that you and Glens have resorted to scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to satisfy both your in depth hatred towards me. What have I done on you or Glens that has warranted such a sustained attack on my character? To be honest, I expected nothing less from you,

I don't know you from Adam and my interactions with you are purely to do with what you post on here so spare me the drama.
I am glad you "expected nothing less " from me. I take pride in exposing your true colours.

Quote from: give her dixie on May 14, 2014, 04:52:06 PM
You went one better and tied me to Hitler, the Nazi's and holocaust denial. How can grown men resort to such childish behavior? Do you both get a kick out of attacking someones character by concocting untrue stories?

No, you tied yourself to Hitler, the Nazis and the holocaust. All I did was flush you out into the open.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 08:24:46 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 15, 2014, 12:20:13 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 14, 2014, 04:52:06 PM
Mike, it is really sad that you and Glens have resorted to scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to satisfy both your in depth hatred towards me. What have I done on you or Glens that has warranted such a sustained attack on my character? To be honest, I expected nothing less from you,

I don't know you from Adam and my interactions with you are purely to do with what you post on here so spare me the drama.
I am glad you "expected nothing less " from me. I take pride in exposing your true colours.

Quote from: give her dixie on May 14, 2014, 04:52:06 PM
You went one better and tied me to Hitler, the Nazi's and holocaust denial. How can grown men resort to such childish behavior? Do you both get a kick out of attacking someones character by concocting untrue stories?

No, you tied yourself to Hitler, the Nazis and the holocaust. All I did was flush you out into the open.

You would have made some detective during the Nuremberg Trials. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 09:12:15 AM
Police briefed Gerry Adams on paedophile brother Liam's case before trial: claim

The Police Ombudsman is investigating an allegation that Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was briefed by police about details of the case against his paedophile brother before he gave evidence against him at trial.

The Belfast Telegraph understands that the Ombudsman is probing a claim that details of the PSNI investigation into Liam Adams, who was later found guilty of raping and sexually abusing his daughter, were discussed by a police officer with the Sinn Fein leader before he gave evidence against his brother at a Crown Court trial.

If the allegation was to be upheld, it could result in the officer being disciplined and could also constitute contempt of court.

Gerry Adams gave evidence for the prosecution during his brother's trial in April last year. That trial collapsed, but Liam Adams was found guilty during a second trial of raping and sexually assaulting his daughter, Aine Dahlstrom, when she was aged between four and nine in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Gerry Adams was not called to give evidence during the second trial.

Liam Adams was handed a 16- year sentence, half of which he is expected to spend behind bars.

The Belfast Telegraph has learned that in recent weeks Liam Adams' second wife Bronagh made a complaint to the Police Ombudsman's office alleging that information about the PSNI investigation was discussed with the Sinn Fein president ahead of trial.

It has also been claimed that details of the case were discussed by an officer during a public meeting.

A source close to the Liam Adams investigation said that the west Belfast man's wife made the complaint as she believed it led to an unfair trial.

If upheld, it is understood that the complaint to the Police Ombudsman could form part of the basis of Liam Adams' appeal against his conviction.

The Police Ombudsman could not go into any details about the complaint as the investigation is ongoing, but a spokesman said: "We received a complaint that information about an ongoing police investigation was discussed with a witness in the case and also at a public meeting."

He added: "The Police Ombudsman is now investigating that complaint."

The PSNI said it would be inappropriate to comment on the complaint as it is under investigation by the Police Ombudsman.

The Belfast Telegraph attempted to contact Gerry Adams, but he was not available for comment.

DUP Policing Board member Jonathan Craig described the Ombudsman probe as a worrying development.

He said: "I do not want to prejudice the Ombudsman's investigation but it would be an incredibly worrying development if it was upheld.

"The Ombudsman must investigate every aspect of what is alleged to have occurred, especially to discover whether this alleged exchange was instigated by the police or by Gerry Adams."

In a separate probe, the Police Ombudsman is also investigating if detectives properly examined whether Gerry Adams covered up his brother's crimes by not telling police for nine years that Liam Adams had confessed to child sex abuse.

In 2011 PSNI officers recommended that the Public Prosecution Service take no action against the Sinn Fein president.

Both the first and the second completed trial raised serious questions for Gerry Adams. It emerged that as far back as 1987 the Sinn Fein leader was aware of the abuse allegation against his brother – an allegation Liam Adams denied that same year when confronted by his brother in Buncrana, Co Donegal.

Giving evidence during the first trial, Mr Adams told the court that in 2000 Liam Adams admitted to him he had sexually assaulted his daughter on one occasion.

It was not until 2009 that Gerry Adams told police about Liam Adams' partial confession.


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/police-briefed-gerry-adams-on-paedophile-brother-liams-case-before-trial-claim-30271996.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 09:25:42 AM
Opinion polls really worrying a lot of people. ;D ;D ;D ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on May 15, 2014, 09:39:19 AM
Anybody watch that clueless dickhead Pat Sheehan last night on Nolan?

He got completely spanked by Donaldson and Nolan... Far be it from me to say anything positive about Donaldson but I thought he was actually right last night and tried to stay on the issue whereas Sheehan kept talking about the UVF and the fact the DUP/Robinson wouldn't condemn them coming into an election when clearly Robinson did yesterday!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:03:25 AM
Steady boys,don't be getting nervous  :-[ :-[ sure it will be alright on the night.Plenty of "Independent Republicans" to vote for. ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 15, 2014, 10:14:45 AM
Here's a question for people who are not comfortable voting Sinn Fein, up north specifically. Is the SDLP a viable alternative, or the Alliance? Or would you consider voting for a Unionist Party? Or is it a case of an independent or spoiling a vote? The choice in the south seems to be much wider (albeit they are all gobshites), whereas up north it seems you have to make a serious jump not to vote for the party that probably is closest to your heart in terms of the political sityiatshun.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:37:03 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 15, 2014, 10:14:45 AM
Here's a question for people who are not comfortable voting Sinn Fein, up north specifically. Is the SDLP a viable alternative, or the Alliance? Or would you consider voting for a Unionist Party? Or is it a case of an independent or spoiling a vote? The choice in the south seems to be much wider (albeit they are all gobshites), whereas up north it seems you have to make a serious jump not to vote for the party that probably is closest to your heart in terms of the political sityiatshun.

I cant answer that as obviously I vote SF but would say a lot would find it hard to vote Unionist because of their constant bigotted statements.NI21 might be an option now for some as they appear fairly moderate.We noticed at the last count those who voted for the RNU,Eirigi or IRSP were transferring to SDLP in certain areas which was a bit of a surprise as the SDLP have attacked ex-pows on many occasions and a lot of these groups made up of ex-pows but maybe that was just an anti Shinner thing.Think the Alliance might suprise a few people in this election and poll well.Having said that I am finding on the canvas the only real problem we are having is the abortion issue other than that the support has been unreal so just hope it converts to votes next Thursday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 15, 2014, 10:38:07 AM
I think Sinn Fein could be huge gainers on both sides of the border this month.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 11:17:56 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 15, 2014, 10:38:07 AM
I think Sin Fe in could be huge gainers on both sides of the border this month.

Well I hope so but as you  know its getting people out to vote can be the problem esp as there is a lot of apathy out there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 15, 2014, 11:36:28 AM
Stirring words.

A senior police officer has rejected Sinn Féin allegations that the arrest of Gerry Adams was the work of a "dark side" within the PSNI.

Ch Supt Nigel Grimshaw said police officers had a duty to investigate crime "without fear or favour".

He added that he was concerned that support for the police seemed to depend on who was being investigated.

Martin McGuinness has claimed there is a "cabal" in the PSNI opposed to Sinn Féin.

The deputy first minister made the comments after Gerry Adams was arrested and questioned about the 1972 murder of Belfast woman Jean McConville.

He said that "there was still a dark side within policing here in the north of Ireland".

Speaking at the Police Superintendents' Association annual conference on Wednesday evening, Ch Supt Grimshaw said: "Only last week, we heard strong and, what many see, as sinister words suggesting that there was an old guard operating within the PSNI leadership, and that there had been a manifestation of a 'dark side'.

"The law is very clear. The Police Act of 2000 charges the police service with a responsibility to investigate crime.

"All of our officers must follow this duty, in the words of Sir Robert Peel, 'without fear or favour'.

"As an association, we reject all attempts to differentiate between our members and to single out as being different those who lead on serious and terrorist crime."

Ch Supt Grimshaw, who is the PSNI's district commander for north and west Belfast, also said he was concerned that "support for policing seems to depend on their investigative strategies or the perspectives of the adversarial political arena".

He added: "Worryingly, there remains a mindset on the part of some that seems to regard good policing as only that which tackles the other side, and bad policing as that which seeks to deal with 'our side'."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 15, 2014, 11:41:43 AM
This week is the anniversary of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. One wonders if the PSNI are investigating those events?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 11:51:10 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 15, 2014, 11:36:28 AM
Stirring words.

A senior police officer has rejected Sinn Féin allegations that the arrest of Gerry Adams was the work of a "dark side" within the PSNI.

Ch Supt Nigel Grimshaw said police officers had a duty to investigate crime "without fear or favour".

He added that he was concerned that support for the police seemed to depend on who was being investigated.

Martin McGuinness has claimed there is a "cabal" in the PSNI opposed to Sinn Féin.

The deputy first minister made the comments after Gerry Adams was arrested and questioned about the 1972 murder of Belfast woman Jean McConville.

He said that "there was still a dark side within policing here in the north of Ireland".

Speaking at the Police Superintendents' Association annual conference on Wednesday evening, Ch Supt Grimshaw said: "Only last week, we heard strong and, what many see, as sinister words suggesting that there was an old guard operating within the PSNI leadership, and that there had been a manifestation of a 'dark side'.

"The law is very clear. The Police Act of 2000 charges the police service with a responsibility to investigate crime.

"All of our officers must follow this duty, in the words of Sir Robert Peel, 'without fear or favour'.

"As an association, we reject all attempts to differentiate between our members and to single out as being different those who lead on serious and terrorist crime."

Ch Supt Grimshaw, who is the PSNI's district commander for north and west Belfast, also said he was concerned that "support for policing seems to depend on their investigative strategies or the perspectives of the adversarial political arena".

He added: "Worryingly, there remains a mindset on the part of some that seems to regard good policing as only that which tackles the other side, and bad policing as that which seeks to deal with 'our side'."

Cop defends cops. Wouldn't exactly call it stirring. If it weren't a case of political policing, where then was the "operational independence" if Villiers knew about the arrest before it happened?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Some people need to be very careful about spreading lies.

3 hours ago 7,067 Views  72 Comments  Share39  Tweet21  Email2
Gerry Adams
Image: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland
GERRY ADAMS HAS asked his solicitor to take "appropriate" action against the Irish Independent and the Belfast Telegraph over what he says are false claims that he was tipped off about the sexual abuse case against Liam Adams.
The Sinn Féin president said today that the allegations that he was briefed about the case before his brother's trial for sexually abusing his daughter Aine are "untrue".
He told a press conference today that he has asked his solicitor Paul Tweed to take "appropriate action" over those stories and said the lawyer has been in contact with the Independent and Telegraph this morning.
In a statement made today at a press conference, he said: "It's totally unfounded, it's  totally inaccurate, it's misleading and it's typical of the scurrilous – I hesitate to use the word journalism – scurrilous approach that we get from that group of newspapers when they're dealing with me or indeed Sinn Féin.
"The assertion that I was tipped off or that I was briefed about the case before the trial is untrue. The assertion that a police officer discussed the details of the PSNI investigation with me before I gave evidence as a prosecution witness against my brother is also untrue.
"The accusation that I was acquiescent or party to any inappropriate to improper conduct in relation to giving my evidence is untrue and there's no basis at all for publishing what are totally false allegations particularly in circumstances where both the PSNI and the Police Ombudsman in the North are reported as having said that it would be inappropriate to comment on a complaint currently under investigation."
Liam Adams was jailed for 16 years last November for raping his daughter. Adams gave evidence against his brother at the trail. He later faced questions from the media about the abuse, specifically about what he knew and when he knew it.
Adams was speaking at the launch of the party's the local elections manifesto. The document includes a commitment to abolish the property tax, build 7,500 social housing units in 18 months, oppose the introduction of water charges, and expand the Dublin Bikes scheme in the capital and across the country.
He criticised Independent Newspapers saying that as far back as the execution of James Connolly the media group has painted "untruths and stories that are absolutely malicious about Sinn Féin".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 15, 2014, 04:20:19 PM
The Irish "Independent" lets its hatred get in the way of the facts again it seems.
Mind you the SF manifesto is off on a loonyleft ignore the facts tangent too - abolish taxes/charges and provide better public services.
Pope Francis ought to canonise the lot of them for such miracles. ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 04:30:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Some people need to be very careful about spreading lies.

Says the man who has spent months spreading lies........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 15, 2014, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 15, 2014, 11:41:43 AM
This week is the anniversary of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. One wonders if the PSNI are investigating those events?
Since the bombings happened in the 26 counties, I would imagine that any investigation would be the responsibility of the republic's police rather than the PSNI.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 15, 2014, 05:31:01 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 11:51:10 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 15, 2014, 11:36:28 AM
Stirring words.

A senior police officer has rejected Sinn Féin allegations that the arrest of Gerry Adams was the work of a "dark side" within the PSNI.

Ch Supt Nigel Grimshaw said police officers had a duty to investigate crime "without fear or favour".

He added that he was concerned that support for the police seemed to depend on who was being investigated.

Martin McGuinness has claimed there is a "cabal" in the PSNI opposed to Sinn Féin.

The deputy first minister made the comments after Gerry Adams was arrested and questioned about the 1972 murder of Belfast woman Jean McConville.

He said that "there was still a dark side within policing here in the north of Ireland".

Speaking at the Police Superintendents' Association annual conference on Wednesday evening, Ch Supt Grimshaw said: "Only last week, we heard strong and, what many see, as sinister words suggesting that there was an old guard operating within the PSNI leadership, and that there had been a manifestation of a 'dark side'.

"The law is very clear. The Police Act of 2000 charges the police service with a responsibility to investigate crime.

"All of our officers must follow this duty, in the words of Sir Robert Peel, 'without fear or favour'.

"As an association, we reject all attempts to differentiate between our members and to single out as being different those who lead on serious and terrorist crime."

Ch Supt Grimshaw, who is the PSNI's district commander for north and west Belfast, also said he was concerned that "support for policing seems to depend on their investigative strategies or the perspectives of the adversarial political arena".

He added: "Worryingly, there remains a mindset on the part of some that seems to regard good policing as only that which tackles the other side, and bad policing as that which seeks to deal with 'our side'."

Cop defends cops. Wouldn't exactly call it stirring. If it weren't a case of political policing, where then was the "operational independence" if Villiers knew about the arrest before it happened?
I would imagine that had the PSNI been about to arrest Peter Robinson they would've informed the SoS in the same way.
Edit: Just read the post re Gerry Adams and his brother, so I've modified my post. Apologies. I thought that the briefings of Adams was a matter of fact, not a political smear.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Gerry is always quick off the mark to call people liars when they say something that involves himself. He forgets the lies he told to the Irish nation about not having anything to do with his child rapist brother for 15 years. The evidence produced in court proved that he was in fact a liar, and not the media who he and his followers claimed.

Here is the full court transcript of his cross examination in full:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08_10_2013_cross_exam_gerry_adams.pdf

Also, as most people will recall, Gerry has always claimed that Dolours Price was a liar when she claimed he was behind the disappearance of several people in the early 70's in interviews carried by the Irish News, The Sunday Life, and the Telegraph.

Gerry Adams had the opportunity to go to court and challenge Dolours over her claims. He refused saying he couldn't afford it. Now that she is dead, he can call her a liar all day long. He had a chance to prove he was telling the truth when she was alive, but he refused. Now she is dead, he can say what he wants.

Gerry has no problem raising millions over the years from lavish dinners in 5 star hotels. The party rakes in millions from Stormont and the Dail through salaries and expenses. Now call me stupid if you may, but in my book, if Gerry wanted to prove his innocence he could have challenged her claims in a court of law in order to clear his name while she was still alive.

Everyone in Sinn Fein repeats the claim by Gerry that he is innocent, yet not one single one of them stepped forward and said Gerry, we will stand behind you in a court action against Dolours, and no matter what it costs, we will do everything in our power to raise the money to cover your expenses. That would have been the ultimate show of faith in his innocence, but somehow, they maybe didn't believe him enough to risk going to court to prove it...........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Gerry is always quick off the mark to call people liars when they say something that involves himself. He forgets the lies he told to the Irish nation about not having anything to do with his child rapist brother for 15 years. The evidence produced in court proved that he was in fact a liar, and not the media who he and his followers claimed.

Here is the full court transcript of his cross examination in full:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08_10_2013_cross_exam_gerry_adams.pdf

Also, as most people will recall, Gerry has always claimed that Dolours Price was a liar when she claimed he was behind the disappearance of several people in the early 70's in interviews carried by the Irish News, The Sunday Life, and the Telegraph.

Gerry Adams had the opportunity to go to court and challenge Dolours over her claims. He refused saying he couldn't afford it. Now that she is dead, he can call her a liar all day long. He had a chance to prove he was telling the truth when she was alive, but he refused. Now she is dead, he can say what he wants.

Gerry has no problem raising millions over the years from lavish dinners in 5 star hotels. The party rakes in millions from Stormont and the Dail through salaries and expenses. Now call me stupid if you may, but in my book, if Gerry wanted to prove his innocence he could have challenged her claims in a court of law in order to clear his name while she was still alive.

Everyone in Sinn Fein repeats the claim by Gerry that he is innocent, yet not one single one of them stepped forward and said Gerry, we will stand behind you in a court action against Dolours, and no matter what it costs, we will do everything in our power to raise the money to cover your expenses. That would have been the ultimate show of faith in his innocence, but somehow, they maybe didn't believe him enough to risk going to court to prove it...........

Dixie, not sure if you've seen the news in recent weeks but Gerry was actually arrested and questioned for four days about IRA membership and the disappeared. He was released without charge. Ergo, he is innocent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 15, 2014, 06:33:12 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 15, 2014, 05:28:53 PM
Since the bombings happened in the 26 counties, I would imagine that any investigation would be the responsibility of the republic's police rather than the PSNI.
Maybe RUC members will travel to Dublin to give evidence if invited. The ones that weren't involved obv.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Gerry is always quick off the mark to call people liars when they say something that involves himself. He forgets the lies he told to the Irish nation about not having anything to do with his child rapist brother for 15 years. The evidence produced in court proved that he was in fact a liar, and not the media who he and his followers claimed.

Here is the full court transcript of his cross examination in full:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08_10_2013_cross_exam_gerry_adams.pdf

Also, as most people will recall, Gerry has always claimed that Dolours Price was a liar when she claimed he was behind the disappearance of several people in the early 70's in interviews carried by the Irish News, The Sunday Life, and the Telegraph.

Gerry Adams had the opportunity to go to court and challenge Dolours over her claims. He refused saying he couldn't afford it. Now that she is dead, he can call her a liar all day long. He had a chance to prove he was telling the truth when she was alive, but he refused. Now she is dead, he can say what he wants.

Gerry has no problem raising millions over the years from lavish dinners in 5 star hotels. The party rakes in millions from Stormont and the Dail through salaries and expenses. Now call me stupid if you may, but in my book, if Gerry wanted to prove his innocence he could have challenged her claims in a court of law in order to clear his name while she was still alive.

Everyone in Sinn Fein repeats the claim by Gerry that he is innocent, yet not one single one of them stepped forward and said Gerry, we will stand behind you in a court action against Dolours, and no matter what it costs, we will do everything in our power to raise the money to cover your expenses. That would have been the ultimate show of faith in his innocence, but somehow, they maybe didn't believe him enough to risk going to court to prove it...........

Dixie, not sure if you've seen the news in recent weeks but Gerry was actually arrested and questioned for four days about IRA membership and the disappeared. He was released without charge. Ergo, he is innocent.

Nally, I think you missed my point, and my previous posts where I did know he was arrested and released without charge pending a file sent to the DPP to decide if he will face charges or not.

Dolours Price was interviewed by 2 people and she claimed Gerry Adams was involved in the disappearance of several people. That interview was carried by 3 major reputable newspapers a couple of years ago.

He had a chance to take Dolours or the papers to court to prove his innocence and challenge the very serious claims. He refused citing he couldn't afford to.

Now tell me this. If I was to make the same claims against Peter Robinson say, or Enda Kenny, or Micheal Martin, or indeed yourself in the same 3 papers, what do you think you or they would do?

Do you think they would challenge the claims in any way they could, including going to court no matter what the costs were? Would you challenge me in court no matter what the cost, or would you sit back and do nothing?

When Gerry said he couldn't afford the costs, he didn't know then that he would be arrested years later and given a chance to clear his name. From then until Dolours died, those claims went unchallenged legally. It was his word against hers.

Over the past few years we have seen serious allegations made about many famous people in the press. Those alleged to have committed the offenses stood up and said they were innocent of all charges, and would fight tooth and nail to defend themselves.

Several high profile people were arrested, questioned, and released. Files were sent to the DPP, and charges were brought against several of them. They had their day in court to defend themselves, and from what we have seen, many of them were convicted, and some found not guilty. In defending themselves, some had to sell their houses and borrow money to pay legal fees.

What they all had in common was a determination to refute the claims made against them no matter what the cost, and no matter what the outcome.

When is the last time you ever seen a high profile person accused of serious crimes in the papers refuse to challenge the claims in a court of law?

Using the excuse of not been able to afford court costs was a very very weak excuse to use given how serious the allegations were.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Some people need to be very careful about spreading lies.

3 hours ago 7,067 Views  72 Comments  Share39  Tweet21  Email2
Gerry Adams
Image: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland
GERRY ADAMS HAS asked his solicitor to take "appropriate" action against the Irish Independent and the Belfast Telegraph over what he says are false claims that he was tipped off about the sexual abuse case against Liam Adams.

Is that not the standard response you'd expect from most politicians? Will be interesting to see whether it's pursued.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:16:17 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 15, 2014, 10:38:07 AM
I think Sinn Fein could be huge gainers on both sides of the border this month.
I think they've probably reached their peak in the north - in terms of numbers of votes at least, although the turnout might impact the level of gains/losses. With the new councils and the reduced number of seats, it's difficult to predict too much.

In the south they'll definitely make big gains on 2009 - it will be interesting to see the gains from the GE.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:22:57 PM
Eurovision's 'bearded lady' winner divides Russia

By Steve Rosenberg
BBC News, Moscow

In his spare time, Communist MP Valery Rashkin likes climbing mountains. Back in the USSR he was a champion alpinist.

Today, though, Mr Rashkin faces an uphill battle of a different kind: to liberate Russia from the Eurovision Song Contest.

"I watched the results of last Saturday's Eurovision with deep pain," Valery tells me. "Giving first place to a bearded lady is a slight on humanity and suicide!"

The bearded lady in question is Austrian drag queen Conchita Wurst. At the Eurovision final in Copenhagen, Conchita triumphed with 'Rise Like a Phoenix'.

In the corridors of Russian power, though, she sank like a lead balloon. Russian officials have cited her as an example of Europe's moral decay.

Continue reading the main story
"
Start Quote

They didn't like our girls because they had braids, not beards"

Oleg Nilov, MP, referring to Russia's Eurovision entry
Minutes after the result was announced, nationalist MP Vladimir Zhirinovsky ranted to Russian TV viewers: "This is the end of Europe. It's rotted away. There are no more men and women. There is just 'It'!"

'Sensible values'
If Valery Rashkin has his way, this will be the end of Russia's participation in Eurovision.

He has submitted an official request with the government to pull his country out of the contest and create an alternative competition called 'The Voice of Eurasia'. Mr Rashkin claims that "dozens" of Russian MPs back his initiative.

"I'm convinced that all sensible people, who love children and their motherland, will support this idea," he assures me. "The new contest will promote completely different values. Certainly not the values of transsexuals, lesbians and homosexuals."

One of the Duma's most devout anti-Eurovision deputies is Oleg Nilov.

In parliament this week, Mr Nilov claimed that "dark forces" had prevented Russia's entry, the 17-year-old Tolmachevy twins, from winning.

"They didn't like our girls because they had braids, not beards," he alleged, then promptly burst into song, with an impromptu performance of the Russian folk tune "Black Crow".


Russian MP Oleg Nilov sang a verse from a folk song in protest against Austria's Eurovision victory
'Russian Openvision'
But why is there such disharmony in the Duma over a song contest?

Last year President Putin signed a law that restricts the spread of information about "non-traditional sexual relations".

Moscow argues the legislation is necessary to protect under-18s and to promote traditional family values in Russian society.

Russian tabloid Tvoi den reports on campaign to shave off beards in protest at Conchita's victory
A campaign to shave off beards in protest at Conchita's victory is reported on in the Russian tabloid Tvoi den
One of the architects of the law was Vitaly Milonov, a member of the St Petersburg city council. He has vowed to prevent Conchita Wurst coming to Russia to give concerts.

"We should not allow this sick man to have concerts here," Mr Milonov tells me. "All this gay propaganda is disgusting. You buried Eurovision. Where the Eurovison song contest was there is now a big grave with the name of Conchita Wurst on it.

"Perhaps next time we should enter a singing bear, or perhaps a dancing troupe from the Russian intelligence service. In fact it's useless for us to send singers to your contests. We cannot expect fair play."

In place of Eurovision, Vitaly Milonov proposes a programme of "traditional songs and poetry about true love." He suggests a title for it: "Russian Openvision".

It is not only politicians who have been protesting.

There has been a campaign against Conchita in the Russian blogosphere, too, with Russian TV and pop stars posting images of themselves shaving off their beards in protest at Austria's victory.

And yet, if you look at how the Russian public voted in the Eurovision final, a very different picture emerges.

Russian televoters loved Conchita Wurst and ranked her third. It seems the public is less outraged by a bearded lady than parliament thinks it ought to be.

Vitaly Milonov dismisses the results of the voting as "fake".

But even on Russian state TV's live post-Eurovision chat show, there were studio guests voicing support for the Austrian singer, expressing views not normally heard on state television.

"Why do we always have to look for someone to hate?" asked one member of the audience.

In a live link-up from Copenhagen, even the writer of this year's Russian entry, Filip Kirkorov, declared: "Let's respect the winner. It doesn't matter if they have a beard or not. If they're a man or a woman.

"Perhaps the result is a protest against our views in Russia. Perhaps it should make us consider whether we should be so extreme in our attitudes towards sexual minorities and to people of different nationalities."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27404406



Hmmmm... dark forces - check, beard - check...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:37:03 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 15, 2014, 10:14:45 AM
Here's a question for people who are not comfortable voting Sinn Fein, up north specifically. Is the SDLP a viable alternative, or the Alliance? Or would you consider voting for a Unionist Party? Or is it a case of an independent or spoiling a vote? The choice in the south seems to be much wider (albeit they are all gobshites), whereas up north it seems you have to make a serious jump not to vote for the party that probably is closest to your heart in terms of the political sityiatshun.

I cant answer that as obviously I vote SF but would say a lot would find it hard to vote Unionist because of their constant bigotted statements.NI21 might be an option now for some as they appear fairly moderate.We noticed at the last count those who voted for the RNU,Eirigi or IRSP were transferring to SDLP in certain areas which was a bit of a surprise as the SDLP have attacked ex-pows on many occasions and a lot of these groups made up of ex-pows but maybe that was just an anti Shinner thing.Think the Alliance might suprise a few people in this election and poll well.Having said that I am finding on the canvas the only real problem we are having is the abortion issue other than that the support has been unreal so just hope it converts to votes next Thursday.
It was hardly a surprise - it's the same as the TUV transfers at the last European elections going disproportionately to the UUP, even though they should be closer to the DUP on the political spectrum. A sort of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' scenario - a snub to those you feel betrayed you / your position the most, whether that be SF or the DUP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 15, 2014, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:22:57 PM
Hmmmm... dark forces - check, beard - check...

Clutching at straws to discredit Adams again I see....  ::)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:56:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 15, 2014, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:22:57 PM
Hmmmm... dark forces - check, beard - check...

Clutching at straws to discredit Adams again I see....  ::)
You don't get tongue-in-cheek, do you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Gerry is always quick off the mark to call people liars when they say something that involves himself. He forgets the lies he told to the Irish nation about not having anything to do with his child rapist brother for 15 years. The evidence produced in court proved that he was in fact a liar, and not the media who he and his followers claimed.

Here is the full court transcript of his cross examination in full:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08_10_2013_cross_exam_gerry_adams.pdf

Also, as most people will recall, Gerry has always claimed that Dolours Price was a liar when she claimed he was behind the disappearance of several people in the early 70's in interviews carried by the Irish News, The Sunday Life, and the Telegraph.

Gerry Adams had the opportunity to go to court and challenge Dolours over her claims. He refused saying he couldn't afford it. Now that she is dead, he can call her a liar all day long. He had a chance to prove he was telling the truth when she was alive, but he refused. Now she is dead, he can say what he wants.

Gerry has no problem raising millions over the years from lavish dinners in 5 star hotels. The party rakes in millions from Stormont and the Dail through salaries and expenses. Now call me stupid if you may, but in my book, if Gerry wanted to prove his innocence he could have challenged her claims in a court of law in order to clear his name while she was still alive.

Everyone in Sinn Fein repeats the claim by Gerry that he is innocent, yet not one single one of them stepped forward and said Gerry, we will stand behind you in a court action against Dolours, and no matter what it costs, we will do everything in our power to raise the money to cover your expenses. That would have been the ultimate show of faith in his innocence, but somehow, they maybe didn't believe him enough to risk going to court to prove it...........

Dixie, not sure if you've seen the news in recent weeks but Gerry was actually arrested and questioned for four days about IRA membership and the disappeared. He was released without charge. Ergo, he is innocent.

Nally, I think you missed my point, and my previous posts where I did know he was arrested and released without charge pending a file sent to the DPP to decide if he will face charges or not.

Dolours Price was interviewed by 2 people and she claimed Gerry Adams was involved in the disappearance of several people. That interview was carried by 3 major reputable newspapers a couple of years ago.

He had a chance to take Dolours or the papers to court to prove his innocence and challenge the very serious claims. He refused citing he couldn't afford to.

Now tell me this. If I was to make the same claims against Peter Robinson say, or Enda Kenny, or Micheal Martin, or indeed yourself in the same 3 papers, what do you think you or they would do?

Do you think they would challenge the claims in any way they could, including going to court no matter what the costs were? Would you challenge me in court no matter what the cost, or would you sit back and do nothing?

When Gerry said he couldn't afford the costs, he didn't know then that he would be arrested years later and given a chance to clear his name. From then until Dolours died, those claims went unchallenged legally. It was his word against hers.

Over the past few years we have seen serious allegations made about many famous people in the press. Those alleged to have committed the offenses stood up and said they were innocent of all charges, and would fight tooth and nail to defend themselves.

Several high profile people were arrested, questioned, and released. Files were sent to the DPP, and charges were brought against several of them. They had their day in court to defend themselves, and from what we have seen, many of them were convicted, and some found not guilty. In defending themselves, some had to sell their houses and borrow money to pay legal fees.

What they all had in common was a determination to refute the claims made against them no matter what the cost, and no matter what the outcome.

When is the last time you ever seen a high profile person accused of serious crimes in the papers refuse to challenge the claims in a court of law?

Using the excuse of not been able to afford court costs was a very very weak excuse to use given how serious the allegations were.
Dixie so what if Delours Price made such allegations. A woman who didn't like him made claims about him without any evidence? Big woop. You seem to think she is the only one to have ever made a wholly unsubstantiated claim about Gerry Adams past. If he were to take all such people to court like you suggest he should have to Delours, he'd never be out of courtrooms ffs. So why should he have? As it stands he is an innocent man anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:09:42 PM
Gerry is above that,he would never take a former comrade to court esp if they have problems.He rose above all that when he visited the Dark on his death bed and carried his coffin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:17:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:22:57 PM
Eurovision's 'bearded lady' winner divides Russia

By Steve Rosenberg
BBC News, Moscow

In his spare time, Communist MP Valery Rashkin likes climbing mountains. Back in the USSR he was a champion alpinist.

Today, though, Mr Rashkin faces an uphill battle of a different kind: to liberate Russia from the Eurovision Song Contest.

"I watched the results of last Saturday's Eurovision with deep pain," Valery tells me. "Giving first place to a bearded lady is a slight on humanity and suicide!"

The bearded lady in question is Austrian drag queen Conchita Wurst. At the Eurovision final in Copenhagen, Conchita triumphed with 'Rise Like a Phoenix'.

In the corridors of Russian power, though, she sank like a lead balloon. Russian officials have cited her as an example of Europe's moral decay.

Continue reading the main story
"
Start Quote

They didn't like our girls because they had braids, not beards"

Oleg Nilov, MP, referring to Russia's Eurovision entry
Minutes after the result was announced, nationalist MP Vladimir Zhirinovsky ranted to Russian TV viewers: "This is the end of Europe. It's rotted away. There are no more men and women. There is just 'It'!"

'Sensible values'
If Valery Rashkin has his way, this will be the end of Russia's participation in Eurovision.

He has submitted an official request with the government to pull his country out of the contest and create an alternative competition called 'The Voice of Eurasia'. Mr Rashkin claims that "dozens" of Russian MPs back his initiative.

"I'm convinced that all sensible people, who love children and their motherland, will support this idea," he assures me. "The new contest will promote completely different values. Certainly not the values of transsexuals, lesbians and homosexuals."

One of the Duma's most devout anti-Eurovision deputies is Oleg Nilov.

In parliament this week, Mr Nilov claimed that "dark forces" had prevented Russia's entry, the 17-year-old Tolmachevy twins, from winning.

"They didn't like our girls because they had braids, not beards," he alleged, then promptly burst into song, with an impromptu performance of the Russian folk tune "Black Crow".


Russian MP Oleg Nilov sang a verse from a folk song in protest against Austria's Eurovision victory
'Russian Openvision'
But why is there such disharmony in the Duma over a song contest?

Last year President Putin signed a law that restricts the spread of information about "non-traditional sexual relations".

Moscow argues the legislation is necessary to protect under-18s and to promote traditional family values in Russian society.

Russian tabloid Tvoi den reports on campaign to shave off beards in protest at Conchita's victory
A campaign to shave off beards in protest at Conchita's victory is reported on in the Russian tabloid Tvoi den
One of the architects of the law was Vitaly Milonov, a member of the St Petersburg city council. He has vowed to prevent Conchita Wurst coming to Russia to give concerts.

"We should not allow this sick man to have concerts here," Mr Milonov tells me. "All this gay propaganda is disgusting. You buried Eurovision. Where the Eurovison song contest was there is now a big grave with the name of Conchita Wurst on it.

"Perhaps next time we should enter a singing bear, or perhaps a dancing troupe from the Russian intelligence service. In fact it's useless for us to send singers to your contests. We cannot expect fair play."

In place of Eurovision, Vitaly Milonov proposes a programme of "traditional songs and poetry about true love." He suggests a title for it: "Russian Openvision".

It is not only politicians who have been protesting.

There has been a campaign against Conchita in the Russian blogosphere, too, with Russian TV and pop stars posting images of themselves shaving off their beards in protest at Austria's victory.

And yet, if you look at how the Russian public voted in the Eurovision final, a very different picture emerges.

Russian televoters loved Conchita Wurst and ranked her third. It seems the public is less outraged by a bearded lady than parliament thinks it ought to be.

Vitaly Milonov dismisses the results of the voting as "fake".

But even on Russian state TV's live post-Eurovision chat show, there were studio guests voicing support for the Austrian singer, expressing views not normally heard on state television.

"Why do we always have to look for someone to hate?" asked one member of the audience.

In a live link-up from Copenhagen, even the writer of this year's Russian entry, Filip Kirkorov, declared: "Let's respect the winner. It doesn't matter if they have a beard or not. If they're a man or a woman.

"Perhaps the result is a protest against our views in Russia. Perhaps it should make us consider whether we should be so extreme in our attitudes towards sexual minorities and to people of different nationalities."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27404406



Hmmmm... dark forces - check, beard - check...

::) ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:17:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Some people need to be very careful about spreading lies.

3 hours ago 7,067 Views  72 Comments  Share39  Tweet21  Email2
Gerry Adams
Image: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland
GERRY ADAMS HAS asked his solicitor to take "appropriate" action against the Irish Independent and the Belfast Telegraph over what he says are false claims that he was tipped off about the sexual abuse case against Liam Adams.

Is that not the standard response you'd expect from most politicians? Will be interesting to see whether it's pursued.

Rarely makes false threats. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:18:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 04:30:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Some people need to be very careful about spreading lies.

Says the man who has spent months spreading lies........

Takes one to know one. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:22:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Gerry is always quick off the mark to call people liars when they say something that involves himself. He forgets the lies he told to the Irish nation about not having anything to do with his child rapist brother for 15 years. The evidence produced in court proved that he was in fact a liar, and not the media who he and his followers claimed.

Here is the full court transcript of his cross examination in full:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08_10_2013_cross_exam_gerry_adams.pdf

Also, as most people will recall, Gerry has always claimed that Dolours Price was a liar when she claimed he was behind the disappearance of several people in the early 70's in interviews carried by the Irish News, The Sunday Life, and the Telegraph.

Gerry Adams had the opportunity to go to court and challenge Dolours over her claims. He refused saying he couldn't afford it. Now that she is dead, he can call her a liar all day long. He had a chance to prove he was telling the truth when she was alive, but he refused. Now she is dead, he can say what he wants.

Gerry has no problem raising millions over the years from lavish dinners in 5 star hotels. The party rakes in millions from Stormont and the Dail through salaries and expenses. Now call me stupid if you may, but in my book, if Gerry wanted to prove his innocence he could have challenged her claims in a court of law in order to clear his name while she was still alive.

Everyone in Sinn Fein repeats the claim by Gerry that he is innocent, yet not one single one of them stepped forward and said Gerry, we will stand behind you in a court action against Dolours, and no matter what it costs, we will do everything in our power to raise the money to cover your expenses. That would have been the ultimate show of faith in his innocence, but somehow, they maybe didn't believe him enough to risk going to court to prove it...........

Dixie, not sure if you've seen the news in recent weeks but Gerry was actually arrested and questioned for four days about IRA membership and the disappeared. He was released without charge. Ergo, he is innocent.

Nally, I think you missed my point, and my previous posts where I did know he was arrested and released without charge pending a file sent to the DPP to decide if he will face charges or not.

Dolours Price was interviewed by 2 people and she claimed Gerry Adams was involved in the disappearance of several people. That interview was carried by 3 major reputable newspapers a couple of years ago.

He had a chance to take Dolours or the papers to court to prove his innocence and challenge the very serious claims. He refused citing he couldn't afford to.

Now tell me this. If I was to make the same claims against Peter Robinson say, or Enda Kenny, or Micheal Martin, or indeed yourself in the same 3 papers, what do you think you or they would do?

Do you think they would challenge the claims in any way they could, including going to court no matter what the costs were? Would you challenge me in court no matter what the cost, or would you sit back and do nothing?

When Gerry said he couldn't afford the costs, he didn't know then that he would be arrested years later and given a chance to clear his name. From then until Dolours died, those claims went unchallenged legally. It was his word against hers.

Over the past few years we have seen serious allegations made about many famous people in the press. Those alleged to have committed the offenses stood up and said they were innocent of all charges, and would fight tooth and nail to defend themselves.

Several high profile people were arrested, questioned, and released. Files were sent to the DPP, and charges were brought against several of them. They had their day in court to defend themselves, and from what we have seen, many of them were convicted, and some found not guilty. In defending themselves, some had to sell their houses and borrow money to pay legal fees.

What they all had in common was a determination to refute the claims made against them no matter what the cost, and no matter what the outcome.

When is the last time you ever seen a high profile person accused of serious crimes in the papers refuse to challenge the claims in a court of law?

Using the excuse of not been able to afford court costs was a very very weak excuse to use given how serious the allegations were.
[/quote

You taking lessons form your chum Anthony. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 15, 2014, 10:37:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 15, 2014, 12:05:32 AM
Now, just so it is explicit, I am making the following statement
"Europes 'Jewish problem' is the problem of irrational hatred by anti-semites. The jewish people themselves have no case to answer. There is no worldwide jewish conspiracy."
I'm sure you can agree on that statement ?

Come on Seafoid...surely you agree with the above statement......Gaaboard awaits your answer. A simple yes or no will suffice,
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 15, 2014, 11:04:02 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 08:24:46 AM
You would have made some detective during the Nuremberg Trials.

Interesting. I'm not sure how to respond to that except to warn you that people who come out
on the wrong side of history (as you are assuredly headed) come to a grisly end.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:07:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Gerry is always quick off the mark to call people liars when they say something that involves himself. He forgets the lies he told to the Irish nation about not having anything to do with his child rapist brother for 15 years. The evidence produced in court proved that he was in fact a liar, and not the media who he and his followers claimed.

Here is the full court transcript of his cross examination in full:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08_10_2013_cross_exam_gerry_adams.pdf

Also, as most people will recall, Gerry has always claimed that Dolours Price was a liar when she claimed he was behind the disappearance of several people in the early 70's in interviews carried by the Irish News, The Sunday Life, and the Telegraph.

Gerry Adams had the opportunity to go to court and challenge Dolours over her claims. He refused saying he couldn't afford it. Now that she is dead, he can call her a liar all day long. He had a chance to prove he was telling the truth when she was alive, but he refused. Now she is dead, he can say what he wants.

Gerry has no problem raising millions over the years from lavish dinners in 5 star hotels. The party rakes in millions from Stormont and the Dail through salaries and expenses. Now call me stupid if you may, but in my book, if Gerry wanted to prove his innocence he could have challenged her claims in a court of law in order to clear his name while she was still alive.

Everyone in Sinn Fein repeats the claim by Gerry that he is innocent, yet not one single one of them stepped forward and said Gerry, we will stand behind you in a court action against Dolours, and no matter what it costs, we will do everything in our power to raise the money to cover your expenses. That would have been the ultimate show of faith in his innocence, but somehow, they maybe didn't believe him enough to risk going to court to prove it...........

Dixie, not sure if you've seen the news in recent weeks but Gerry was actually arrested and questioned for four days about IRA membership and the disappeared. He was released without charge. Ergo, he is innocent.

Nally, I think you missed my point, and my previous posts where I did know he was arrested and released without charge pending a file sent to the DPP to decide if he will face charges or not.

Dolours Price was interviewed by 2 people and she claimed Gerry Adams was involved in the disappearance of several people. That interview was carried by 3 major reputable newspapers a couple of years ago.

He had a chance to take Dolours or the papers to court to prove his innocence and challenge the very serious claims. He refused citing he couldn't afford to.

Now tell me this. If I was to make the same claims against Peter Robinson say, or Enda Kenny, or Micheal Martin, or indeed yourself in the same 3 papers, what do you think you or they would do?

Do you think they would challenge the claims in any way they could, including going to court no matter what the costs were? Would you challenge me in court no matter what the cost, or would you sit back and do nothing?

When Gerry said he couldn't afford the costs, he didn't know then that he would be arrested years later and given a chance to clear his name. From then until Dolours died, those claims went unchallenged legally. It was his word against hers.

Over the past few years we have seen serious allegations made about many famous people in the press. Those alleged to have committed the offenses stood up and said they were innocent of all charges, and would fight tooth and nail to defend themselves.

Several high profile people were arrested, questioned, and released. Files were sent to the DPP, and charges were brought against several of them. They had their day in court to defend themselves, and from what we have seen, many of them were convicted, and some found not guilty. In defending themselves, some had to sell their houses and borrow money to pay legal fees.

What they all had in common was a determination to refute the claims made against them no matter what the cost, and no matter what the outcome.

When is the last time you ever seen a high profile person accused of serious crimes in the papers refuse to challenge the claims in a court of law?

Using the excuse of not been able to afford court costs was a very very weak excuse to use given how serious the allegations were.
Dixie so what if Delours Price made such allegations. A woman who didn't like him made claims about him without any evidence? Big woop. You seem to think she is the only one to have ever made a wholly unsubstantiated claim about Gerry Adams past. If he were to take all such people to court like you suggest he should have to Delours, he'd never be out of courtrooms ffs. So why should he have? As it stands he is an innocent man anyway.

Nally, how do you know Dolours had no evidence? You ask why should he have taken her or others to court. As I see it, she was one of very few who went to the national media and had mainstream publications carry the story. Given that he is the leader of a large political party, would it not be in his best interests, and the interests of the public, to put her in the dock and ask her to back up up claims? After all, he declared to everyone, without any evidence, that she was telling lies?

As it stands, he told us all that he couldn't afford to go to court to challenge her claims that he was involved in several murders, yet he can afford to hire Paul Tweed to go after 2 newspapers who carried a story in which his sister in law claims he spoke to the police before he was due to give evidence at his brothers trial.

Does it not strike you or anyone else as odd that he would lets claims of his involvement in murders go unchallenged, yet hire a lawyer who usually works for Hollywood stars to defend claims he spoke to a policeman?

I don't know what Paul Tweed costs, but given he has represented people such as Britney Spears and the Duchess of York, i'm sure he doesn't come cheap. Maybe McGuinness worked out a special deal a couple of weeks ago when he was dining with the Windsors in Windsor?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:14:55 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:18:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 04:30:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Some people need to be very careful about spreading lies.

Says the man who has spent months spreading lies........

Takes one to know one. ;)

Glens, now that you have finally admitted to been a liar, can you please explain to me what you claim to know about my brother in laws when you claimed the following:

"You keep an eye on the brother in laws with the money down your part of the world Dixie."

"now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in."


These are fairly serious allegations Glens, and i'm sure they are against the ethos and rules of the GAA Board.

Now would you care to explain what you mean?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:30:43 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 15, 2014, 11:04:02 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 08:24:46 AM
You would have made some detective during the Nuremberg Trials.

Interesting. I'm not sure how to respond to that except to warn you that people who come out
on the wrong side of history (as you are assuredly headed) come to a grisly end.

And what exactly do you mean when you warn me about coming to a grisly end?

That is a very strong claim to make Mike, and one that is well out of line.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 16, 2014, 07:31:06 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:14:55 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:18:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 04:30:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Some people need to be very careful about spreading lies.

Says the man who has spent months spreading lies........

Takes one to know one. ;)

Glens, now that you have finally admitted to been a liar, can you please explain to me what you claim to know about my brother in laws when you claimed the following:

"You keep an eye on the brother in laws with the money down your part of the world Dixie."

"now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in."


These are fairly serious allegations Glens, and i'm sure they are against the ethos and rules of the GAA Board.

Now would you care to explain what you mean?

Again selective reading,I didn't say your brother in laws I said the Brother in laws and don't pretend you don't know about who I am referring.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 16, 2014, 08:12:55 AM
glens Abu is the sort of fella that thinks it's ok for our great leader to let a paedo work with children in youth clubs in his constituency  :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 08:13:13 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:07:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Gerry is always quick off the mark to call people liars when they say something that involves himself. He forgets the lies he told to the Irish nation about not having anything to do with his child rapist brother for 15 years. The evidence produced in court proved that he was in fact a liar, and not the media who he and his followers claimed.

Here is the full court transcript of his cross examination in full:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08_10_2013_cross_exam_gerry_adams.pdf

Also, as most people will recall, Gerry has always claimed that Dolours Price was a liar when she claimed he was behind the disappearance of several people in the early 70's in interviews carried by the Irish News, The Sunday Life, and the Telegraph.

Gerry Adams had the opportunity to go to court and challenge Dolours over her claims. He refused saying he couldn't afford it. Now that she is dead, he can call her a liar all day long. He had a chance to prove he was telling the truth when she was alive, but he refused. Now she is dead, he can say what he wants.

Gerry has no problem raising millions over the years from lavish dinners in 5 star hotels. The party rakes in millions from Stormont and the Dail through salaries and expenses. Now call me stupid if you may, but in my book, if Gerry wanted to prove his innocence he could have challenged her claims in a court of law in order to clear his name while she was still alive.

Everyone in Sinn Fein repeats the claim by Gerry that he is innocent, yet not one single one of them stepped forward and said Gerry, we will stand behind you in a court action against Dolours, and no matter what it costs, we will do everything in our power to raise the money to cover your expenses. That would have been the ultimate show of faith in his innocence, but somehow, they maybe didn't believe him enough to risk going to court to prove it...........

Dixie, not sure if you've seen the news in recent weeks but Gerry was actually arrested and questioned for four days about IRA membership and the disappeared. He was released without charge. Ergo, he is innocent.

Nally, I think you missed my point, and my previous posts where I did know he was arrested and released without charge pending a file sent to the DPP to decide if he will face charges or not.

Dolours Price was interviewed by 2 people and she claimed Gerry Adams was involved in the disappearance of several people. That interview was carried by 3 major reputable newspapers a couple of years ago.

He had a chance to take Dolours or the papers to court to prove his innocence and challenge the very serious claims. He refused citing he couldn't afford to.

Now tell me this. If I was to make the same claims against Peter Robinson say, or Enda Kenny, or Micheal Martin, or indeed yourself in the same 3 papers, what do you think you or they would do?

Do you think they would challenge the claims in any way they could, including going to court no matter what the costs were? Would you challenge me in court no matter what the cost, or would you sit back and do nothing?

When Gerry said he couldn't afford the costs, he didn't know then that he would be arrested years later and given a chance to clear his name. From then until Dolours died, those claims went unchallenged legally. It was his word against hers.

Over the past few years we have seen serious allegations made about many famous people in the press. Those alleged to have committed the offenses stood up and said they were innocent of all charges, and would fight tooth and nail to defend themselves.

Several high profile people were arrested, questioned, and released. Files were sent to the DPP, and charges were brought against several of them. They had their day in court to defend themselves, and from what we have seen, many of them were convicted, and some found not guilty. In defending themselves, some had to sell their houses and borrow money to pay legal fees.

What they all had in common was a determination to refute the claims made against them no matter what the cost, and no matter what the outcome.

When is the last time you ever seen a high profile person accused of serious crimes in the papers refuse to challenge the claims in a court of law?

Using the excuse of not been able to afford court costs was a very very weak excuse to use given how serious the allegations were.
Dixie so what if Delours Price made such allegations. A woman who didn't like him made claims about him without any evidence? Big woop. You seem to think she is the only one to have ever made a wholly unsubstantiated claim about Gerry Adams past. If he were to take all such people to court like you suggest he should have to Delours, he'd never be out of courtrooms ffs. So why should he have? As it stands he is an innocent man anyway.

Nally, how do you know Dolours had no evidence? You ask why should he have taken her or others to court. As I see it, she was one of very few who went to the national media and had mainstream publications carry the story. Given that he is the leader of a large political party, would it not be in his best interests, and the interests of the public, to put her in the dock and ask her to back up up claims? After all, he declared to everyone, without any evidence, that she was telling lies?

As it stands, he told us all that he couldn't afford to go to court to challenge her claims that he was involved in several murders, yet he can afford to hire Paul Tweed to go after 2 newspapers who carried a story in which his sister in law claims he spoke to the police before he was due to give evidence at his brothers trial.

Does it not strike you or anyone else as odd that he would lets claims of his involvement in murders go unchallenged, yet hire a lawyer who usually works for Hollywood stars to defend claims he spoke to a policeman?

I don't know what Paul Tweed costs, but given he has represented people such as Britney Spears and the Duchess of York, i'm sure he doesn't come cheap. Maybe McGuinness worked out a special deal a couple of weeks ago when he was dining with the Windsors in Windsor?
With respect Dixie, you're talking nonsense. Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams have faced more unsubstantiated allegations in the national press and television than you or I have had hot dinners. As I said,  if they were to bring to court every last person to accuse them, they'd get nothing else done. Considering the sheer number of people to have accused them both without providing any evidence whatsoever, why should you, or indeed Adams, get the knickers in a twist of just one of them. Dolours Price despised Adams and made claims against him without providing a scrap of evidence. Big fecking woop. She was just another in the line to do so. Meanwhile Adams is an innocent man.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 16, 2014, 08:25:29 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 16, 2014, 08:12:55 AM
glens Abu is the sort of fella that thinks it's ok for our great leader to let a paedo work with children in youth clubs in his constituency  :-[

Again thats the level all you boys have sank,right into the gutter and your gang are putting this through the doors as election material. ;D ;D.Cant wait to see their faces at the count on the 23rd.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 16, 2014, 09:14:27 AM
I'm not into these big long quotes things, but this is in response to some of give her dixie's posts on the allegations against Gerry Adams and in particular those made by Dolours Price.  What Dolours Price said about Adams (whether true or not) does not constitute evidence and would not form the basis of a prosecution without some serious corroboration.  Also you have asked why Adams did not take her to court to "prove his innocence".  As far as I know the way the legal system works is that the burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused.  In other words Adams doesn't have to "prove his innocence" it is up to the accuser(s) to prove his guilt.  Why did Adams not sue her?  Well, to win a case like that Adams would have to show he had been damaged or harmed by the accusations.  His own performance in elections and that of SF recently would show some evidence that this has not happened?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 11:35:24 AM
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/05/16/paint-attack-on-sinn-fein-office/

Sinn Fein PR machine is flying at the minute.

Gerry last week -  Gerry this week - paint bombs last night.

SF really making the most of it.

Reminds me of the time the orangemen were burning their own halls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2014, 11:51:39 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 11:35:24 AM
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/05/16/paint-attack-on-sinn-fein-office/

Sinn Fein PR machine is flying at the minute.

Gerry last week -  Gerry this week - paint bombs last night.

Was it whitewash?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 16, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2014, 11:51:39 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 11:35:24 AM
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/05/16/paint-attack-on-sinn-fein-office/

Sinn Fein PR machine is flying at the minute.

Gerry last week -  Gerry this week - paint bombs last night.

Was it whitewash?

No, it was dark art...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 16, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2014, 11:51:39 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 11:35:24 AM
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/05/16/paint-attack-on-sinn-fein-office/

Sinn Fein PR machine is flying at the minute.

Gerry last week -  Gerry this week - paint bombs last night.

Was it whitewash?

No, it was dark art...

I like it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:27:31 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 16, 2014, 07:31:06 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:14:55 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:18:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 04:30:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Some people need to be very careful about spreading lies.

Says the man who has spent months spreading lies........

Takes one to know one. ;)

Glens, now that you have finally admitted to been a liar, can you please explain to me what you claim to know about my brother in laws when you claimed the following:

"You keep an eye on the brother in laws with the money down your part of the world Dixie."

"now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in."


These are fairly serious allegations Glens, and i'm sure they are against the ethos and rules of the GAA Board.

Now would you care to explain what you mean?

Again selective reading,I didn't say your brother in laws I said the Brother in laws and don't pretend you don't know about who I am referring.

No Glens, I do not know what you are talking about. Please explain.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:36:25 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 08:13:13 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:07:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 15, 2014, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Gerry is always quick off the mark to call people liars when they say something that involves himself. He forgets the lies he told to the Irish nation about not having anything to do with his child rapist brother for 15 years. The evidence produced in court proved that he was in fact a liar, and not the media who he and his followers claimed.

Here is the full court transcript of his cross examination in full:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08_10_2013_cross_exam_gerry_adams.pdf

Also, as most people will recall, Gerry has always claimed that Dolours Price was a liar when she claimed he was behind the disappearance of several people in the early 70's in interviews carried by the Irish News, The Sunday Life, and the Telegraph.

Gerry Adams had the opportunity to go to court and challenge Dolours over her claims. He refused saying he couldn't afford it. Now that she is dead, he can call her a liar all day long. He had a chance to prove he was telling the truth when she was alive, but he refused. Now she is dead, he can say what he wants.

Gerry has no problem raising millions over the years from lavish dinners in 5 star hotels. The party rakes in millions from Stormont and the Dail through salaries and expenses. Now call me stupid if you may, but in my book, if Gerry wanted to prove his innocence he could have challenged her claims in a court of law in order to clear his name while she was still alive.

Everyone in Sinn Fein repeats the claim by Gerry that he is innocent, yet not one single one of them stepped forward and said Gerry, we will stand behind you in a court action against Dolours, and no matter what it costs, we will do everything in our power to raise the money to cover your expenses. That would have been the ultimate show of faith in his innocence, but somehow, they maybe didn't believe him enough to risk going to court to prove it...........

Dixie, not sure if you've seen the news in recent weeks but Gerry was actually arrested and questioned for four days about IRA membership and the disappeared. He was released without charge. Ergo, he is innocent.

Nally, I think you missed my point, and my previous posts where I did know he was arrested and released without charge pending a file sent to the DPP to decide if he will face charges or not.

Dolours Price was interviewed by 2 people and she claimed Gerry Adams was involved in the disappearance of several people. That interview was carried by 3 major reputable newspapers a couple of years ago.

He had a chance to take Dolours or the papers to court to prove his innocence and challenge the very serious claims. He refused citing he couldn't afford to.

Now tell me this. If I was to make the same claims against Peter Robinson say, or Enda Kenny, or Micheal Martin, or indeed yourself in the same 3 papers, what do you think you or they would do?

Do you think they would challenge the claims in any way they could, including going to court no matter what the costs were? Would you challenge me in court no matter what the cost, or would you sit back and do nothing?

When Gerry said he couldn't afford the costs, he didn't know then that he would be arrested years later and given a chance to clear his name. From then until Dolours died, those claims went unchallenged legally. It was his word against hers.

Over the past few years we have seen serious allegations made about many famous people in the press. Those alleged to have committed the offenses stood up and said they were innocent of all charges, and would fight tooth and nail to defend themselves.

Several high profile people were arrested, questioned, and released. Files were sent to the DPP, and charges were brought against several of them. They had their day in court to defend themselves, and from what we have seen, many of them were convicted, and some found not guilty. In defending themselves, some had to sell their houses and borrow money to pay legal fees.

What they all had in common was a determination to refute the claims made against them no matter what the cost, and no matter what the outcome.

When is the last time you ever seen a high profile person accused of serious crimes in the papers refuse to challenge the claims in a court of law?

Using the excuse of not been able to afford court costs was a very very weak excuse to use given how serious the allegations were.
Dixie so what if Delours Price made such allegations. A woman who didn't like him made claims about him without any evidence? Big woop. You seem to think she is the only one to have ever made a wholly unsubstantiated claim about Gerry Adams past. If he were to take all such people to court like you suggest he should have to Delours, he'd never be out of courtrooms ffs. So why should he have? As it stands he is an innocent man anyway.

Nally, how do you know Dolours had no evidence? You ask why should he have taken her or others to court. As I see it, she was one of very few who went to the national media and had mainstream publications carry the story. Given that he is the leader of a large political party, would it not be in his best interests, and the interests of the public, to put her in the dock and ask her to back up up claims? After all, he declared to everyone, without any evidence, that she was telling lies?

As it stands, he told us all that he couldn't afford to go to court to challenge her claims that he was involved in several murders, yet he can afford to hire Paul Tweed to go after 2 newspapers who carried a story in which his sister in law claims he spoke to the police before he was due to give evidence at his brothers trial.

Does it not strike you or anyone else as odd that he would lets claims of his involvement in murders go unchallenged, yet hire a lawyer who usually works for Hollywood stars to defend claims he spoke to a policeman?

I don't know what Paul Tweed costs, but given he has represented people such as Britney Spears and the Duchess of York, i'm sure he doesn't come cheap. Maybe McGuinness worked out a special deal a couple of weeks ago when he was dining with the Windsors in Windsor?
With respect Dixie, you're talking nonsense. Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams have faced more unsubstantiated allegations in the national press and television than you or I have had hot dinners. As I said,  if they were to bring to court every last person to accuse them, they'd get nothing else done. Considering the sheer number of people to have accused them both without providing any evidence whatsoever, why should you, or indeed Adams, get the knickers in a twist of just one of them. Dolours Price despised Adams and made claims against him without providing a scrap of evidence. Big fecking woop. She was just another in the line to do so. Meanwhile Adams is an innocent man.

Nally, I just find it odd that he refused to challenge serious claims about involvement in murder, carried by 3 main newspapers but yet hires in the worlds top libel lawyer over a claim in 2 papers by his sister in law that he had a conversation with a policeman.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 11:35:24 AM
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/05/16/paint-attack-on-sinn-fein-office/

Sinn Fein PR machine is flying at the minute.

Gerry last week -  Gerry this week - paint bombs last night.

SF really making the most of it.

Reminds me of the time the orangemen were burning their own halls.

Yet they fail to condemn  graffiti plastered all over West Belfast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:38:48 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 11:35:24 AM
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/05/16/paint-attack-on-sinn-fein-office/

Sinn Fein PR machine is flying at the minute.

Gerry last week -  Gerry this week - paint bombs last night.

SF really making the most of it.

Reminds me of the time the orangemen were burning their own halls.

Yet they fail to condemn  graffiti plastered all over West Belfast.

Have the other parties?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2014, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:38:48 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 11:35:24 AM
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/05/16/paint-attack-on-sinn-fein-office/

Sinn Fein PR machine is flying at the minute.

Gerry last week -  Gerry this week - paint bombs last night.

SF really making the most of it.

Reminds me of the time the orangemen were burning their own halls.

Yet they fail to condemn  graffiti plastered all over West Belfast.

Have the other parties?

Ah the good old whataboutery! If there is graffiti surely it should be possible to condemn it without reference to what anyone else does.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2014, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:38:48 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 11:35:24 AM
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/05/16/paint-attack-on-sinn-fein-office/

Sinn Fein PR machine is flying at the minute.

Gerry last week -  Gerry this week - paint bombs last night.

SF really making the most of it.

Reminds me of the time the orangemen were burning their own halls.

Yet they fail to condemn  graffiti plastered all over West Belfast.

Have the other parties?

Ah the good old whataboutery! If there is graffiti surely it should be possible to condemn it without reference to what anyone else does.

Call it whataboutry if you want. I tend to look at it as highlighting hypocrisy. Depends on your viewpoint.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
Tommy Gorman, one of the interviewees for the Boston College Project, had this letter in todays Irish News


Some years ago, I was asked to take part in a project which, it was hoped, would help enhance understanding of the decades of political bloodletting that blighted our land and people.

I felt the plan to construct the archive by getting the thoughts and experiences of former combatants, and to examine the factors that led to people like us deciding to risk all in pursuance of our differing causes, would be valuable and instructive to future generations who may want to know what it was all about and hopefully help ensure it doesn't happen again.

And with eyes wide open and no hesitation I offered to help in any way I could.

I did the interviews in which I tried to describe the feeling of the community and the mood within the republican movement when the conflict was at different stages as well the prison struggle.

I didn't speak of any other volunteers just as I didn't expect them to speak of me. They were, after all, personal reminiscences from a very bloody period in our history.

Unfortunately, those at Boston College have not lived up to declarations made at the onset of the project in regards to confidentiality and assurances that the archive would remain secure from any external snooping.

The resulting media frenzy has allowed Shinner spinners and semi-literate graffitists to go into overdrive in attacking those of us among the many interviewees who don't agree that what is being peddled by Sinn Fein as 'the great leap forward' is anything of the sort.

In socio-economic, constitutional and inter-community development the opposite is true.

With the recent exposure of  post-ceasefire gunrunning by those 'fully committed to the peace process and support for the PSNI' we all should be dubious as to any excuse offered as to why, in this period of peace, there is a need for guns that are untraceable with no history or connection to any person or group.

One thing is sure: there is no way they are to be turned on the old enemy.

In all of our actions we must always strive to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable by refusing to be silenced
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:39:28 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:09:42 PM
Gerry is above that,he would never take a former comrade to court esp if they have problems.He rose above all that when he visited the Dark on his death bed and carried his coffin.
Would he have to take former comrades to court? Is the current threat of legal action not against the newspapers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
Tommy Gorman, one of the interviewees for the Boston College Project, had this letter in todays Irish News


Some years ago, I was asked to take part in a project which, it was hoped, would help enhance understanding of the decades of political bloodletting that blighted our land and people.

I felt the plan to construct the archive by getting the thoughts and experiences of former combatants, and to examine the factors that led to people like us deciding to risk all in pursuance of our differing causes, would be valuable and instructive to future generations who may want to know what it was all about and hopefully help ensure it doesn't happen again.

And with eyes wide open and no hesitation I offered to help in any way I could.

I did the interviews in which I tried to describe the feeling of the community and the mood within the republican movement when the conflict was at different stages as well the prison struggle.

I didn't speak of any other volunteers just as I didn't expect them to speak of me. They were, after all, personal reminiscences from a very bloody period in our history.

Unfortunately, those at Boston College have not lived up to declarations made at the onset of the project in regards to confidentiality and assurances that the archive would remain secure from any external snooping.

The resulting media frenzy has allowed Shinner spinners and semi-literate graffitists to go into overdrive in attacking those of us among the many interviewees who don't agree that what is being peddled by Sinn Fein as 'the great leap forward' is anything of the sort.

In socio-economic, constitutional and inter-community development the opposite is true.

With the recent exposure of  post-ceasefire gunrunning by those 'fully committed to the peace process and support for the PSNI' we all should be dubious as to any excuse offered as to why, in this period of peace, there is a need for guns that are untraceable with no history or connection to any person or group.

One thing is sure: there is no way they are to be turned on the old enemy.

In all of our actions we must always strive to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable by refusing to be silenced

Further evidence, as if it were needed, that the only ones allowed to participate in this "history project" were people with a grudge against Sinn Féin. It's laughable at this stage!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:44:56 PM
http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2014/05/15/gerry-adams-and-his-slow-removal-from-sinn-fein-2014-election-leaflets/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 16, 2014, 04:49:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:44:56 PM
http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2014/05/15/gerry-adams-and-his-slow-removal-from-sinn-fein-2014-election-leaflets/

He has gone away, you know!

I'll get my coat...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
Tommy Gorman, one of the interviewees for the Boston College Project, had this letter in todays Irish News


Some years ago, I was asked to take part in a project which, it was hoped, would help enhance understanding of the decades of political bloodletting that blighted our land and people.

I felt the plan to construct the archive by getting the thoughts and experiences of former combatants, and to examine the factors that led to people like us deciding to risk all in pursuance of our differing causes, would be valuable and instructive to future generations who may want to know what it was all about and hopefully help ensure it doesn't happen again.

And with eyes wide open and no hesitation I offered to help in any way I could.

I did the interviews in which I tried to describe the feeling of the community and the mood within the republican movement when the conflict was at different stages as well the prison struggle.

I didn't speak of any other volunteers just as I didn't expect them to speak of me. They were, after all, personal reminiscences from a very bloody period in our history.

Unfortunately, those at Boston College have not lived up to declarations made at the onset of the project in regards to confidentiality and assurances that the archive would remain secure from any external snooping.

The resulting media frenzy has allowed Shinner spinners and semi-literate graffitists to go into overdrive in attacking those of us among the many interviewees who don't agree that what is being peddled by Sinn Fein as 'the great leap forward' is anything of the sort.

In socio-economic, constitutional and inter-community development the opposite is true.

With the recent exposure of  post-ceasefire gunrunning by those 'fully committed to the peace process and support for the PSNI' we all should be dubious as to any excuse offered as to why, in this period of peace, there is a need for guns that are untraceable with no history or connection to any person or group.

One thing is sure: there is no way they are to be turned on the old enemy.

In all of our actions we must always strive to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable by refusing to be silenced

Further evidence, as if it were needed, that the only ones allowed to participate in this "history project" were people with a grudge against Sinn Féin. It's laughable at this stage!
It's hardly definitive. Neither you nor I know exactly who was interviewed, or indeed who declined to be interviewed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:56:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:44:56 PM
http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2014/05/15/gerry-adams-and-his-slow-removal-from-sinn-fein-2014-election-leaflets/
Wishful thinking taken to extreme levels there!! He hasn't gone away you know and here's hoping he won't for quite some time. And one thing's for sure, it won't be as a result of links like that when he does step down :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:59:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
Tommy Gorman, one of the interviewees for the Boston College Project, had this letter in todays Irish News


Some years ago, I was asked to take part in a project which, it was hoped, would help enhance understanding of the decades of political bloodletting that blighted our land and people.

I felt the plan to construct the archive by getting the thoughts and experiences of former combatants, and to examine the factors that led to people like us deciding to risk all in pursuance of our differing causes, would be valuable and instructive to future generations who may want to know what it was all about and hopefully help ensure it doesn't happen again.

And with eyes wide open and no hesitation I offered to help in any way I could.

I did the interviews in which I tried to describe the feeling of the community and the mood within the republican movement when the conflict was at different stages as well the prison struggle.

I didn't speak of any other volunteers just as I didn't expect them to speak of me. They were, after all, personal reminiscences from a very bloody period in our history.

Unfortunately, those at Boston College have not lived up to declarations made at the onset of the project in regards to confidentiality and assurances that the archive would remain secure from any external snooping.

The resulting media frenzy has allowed Shinner spinners and semi-literate graffitists to go into overdrive in attacking those of us among the many interviewees who don't agree that what is being peddled by Sinn Fein as 'the great leap forward' is anything of the sort.

In socio-economic, constitutional and inter-community development the opposite is true.

With the recent exposure of  post-ceasefire gunrunning by those 'fully committed to the peace process and support for the PSNI' we all should be dubious as to any excuse offered as to why, in this period of peace, there is a need for guns that are untraceable with no history or connection to any person or group.

One thing is sure: there is no way they are to be turned on the old enemy.

In all of our actions we must always strive to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable by refusing to be silenced

Further evidence, as if it were needed, that the only ones allowed to participate in this "history project" were people with a grudge against Sinn Féin. It's laughable at this stage!
It's hardly definitive. Neither you nor I know exactly who was interviewed, or indeed who declined to be interviewed.
Indeed but it's "further evidence" as I said. We don't know everyone who took part but all those we do know the identities of (particpants and organisers) have, to a man, got that one key think in common.

http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/ (http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:56:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:44:56 PM
http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2014/05/15/gerry-adams-and-his-slow-removal-from-sinn-fein-2014-election-leaflets/
Wishful thinking taken to extreme levels there!! He hasn't gone away you know and here's hoping he won't for quite some time. And one thing's for sure, it won't be as a result of links like that when he does step down :D
The leaflets are what they are - interpret them as you wish.

As it happens, with Adams clarifying the party's support for the police on his release, and his reported direction to remove the mural this week, it might well be the case that he has better political judgement than those in charge in his absence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 05:09:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:59:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
Tommy Gorman, one of the interviewees for the Boston College Project, had this letter in todays Irish News


Some years ago, I was asked to take part in a project which, it was hoped, would help enhance understanding of the decades of political bloodletting that blighted our land and people.

I felt the plan to construct the archive by getting the thoughts and experiences of former combatants, and to examine the factors that led to people like us deciding to risk all in pursuance of our differing causes, would be valuable and instructive to future generations who may want to know what it was all about and hopefully help ensure it doesn't happen again.

And with eyes wide open and no hesitation I offered to help in any way I could.

I did the interviews in which I tried to describe the feeling of the community and the mood within the republican movement when the conflict was at different stages as well the prison struggle.

I didn't speak of any other volunteers just as I didn't expect them to speak of me. They were, after all, personal reminiscences from a very bloody period in our history.

Unfortunately, those at Boston College have not lived up to declarations made at the onset of the project in regards to confidentiality and assurances that the archive would remain secure from any external snooping.

The resulting media frenzy has allowed Shinner spinners and semi-literate graffitists to go into overdrive in attacking those of us among the many interviewees who don't agree that what is being peddled by Sinn Fein as 'the great leap forward' is anything of the sort.

In socio-economic, constitutional and inter-community development the opposite is true.

With the recent exposure of  post-ceasefire gunrunning by those 'fully committed to the peace process and support for the PSNI' we all should be dubious as to any excuse offered as to why, in this period of peace, there is a need for guns that are untraceable with no history or connection to any person or group.

One thing is sure: there is no way they are to be turned on the old enemy.

In all of our actions we must always strive to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable by refusing to be silenced

Further evidence, as if it were needed, that the only ones allowed to participate in this "history project" were people with a grudge against Sinn Féin. It's laughable at this stage!
It's hardly definitive. Neither you nor I know exactly who was interviewed, or indeed who declined to be interviewed.
Indeed but it's "further evidence" as I said. We don't know everyone who took part but all those we do know the identities of (particpants and organisers) have, to a man, got that one key think in common.

http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/ (http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/)
It's only further evidence of another anti SF contributor, nothing more.

There's no evidence that only people with such views were allowed to contribute. And not that you'll give it much credence, but those behind the project say two strong SF supporters gave interviews to the project.

There's also nothing to indicate that anyone was denied the opportunity to contribute - surely we'd have heard if that was the case. Therefore your claim that the "only ones allowed" to contribute... has no basis whatsoever.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 05:29:59 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 05:09:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:59:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
Tommy Gorman, one of the interviewees for the Boston College Project, had this letter in todays Irish News


Some years ago, I was asked to take part in a project which, it was hoped, would help enhance understanding of the decades of political bloodletting that blighted our land and people.

I felt the plan to construct the archive by getting the thoughts and experiences of former combatants, and to examine the factors that led to people like us deciding to risk all in pursuance of our differing causes, would be valuable and instructive to future generations who may want to know what it was all about and hopefully help ensure it doesn't happen again.

And with eyes wide open and no hesitation I offered to help in any way I could.

I did the interviews in which I tried to describe the feeling of the community and the mood within the republican movement when the conflict was at different stages as well the prison struggle.

I didn't speak of any other volunteers just as I didn't expect them to speak of me. They were, after all, personal reminiscences from a very bloody period in our history.

Unfortunately, those at Boston College have not lived up to declarations made at the onset of the project in regards to confidentiality and assurances that the archive would remain secure from any external snooping.

The resulting media frenzy has allowed Shinner spinners and semi-literate graffitists to go into overdrive in attacking those of us among the many interviewees who don't agree that what is being peddled by Sinn Fein as 'the great leap forward' is anything of the sort.

In socio-economic, constitutional and inter-community development the opposite is true.

With the recent exposure of  post-ceasefire gunrunning by those 'fully committed to the peace process and support for the PSNI' we all should be dubious as to any excuse offered as to why, in this period of peace, there is a need for guns that are untraceable with no history or connection to any person or group.

One thing is sure: there is no way they are to be turned on the old enemy.

In all of our actions we must always strive to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable by refusing to be silenced

Further evidence, as if it were needed, that the only ones allowed to participate in this "history project" were people with a grudge against Sinn Féin. It's laughable at this stage!
It's hardly definitive. Neither you nor I know exactly who was interviewed, or indeed who declined to be interviewed.
Indeed but it's "further evidence" as I said. We don't know everyone who took part but all those we do know the identities of (particpants and organisers) have, to a man, got that one key think in common.

http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/ (http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/)
It's only further evidence of another anti SF contributor, nothing more.

There's no evidence that only people with such views were allowed to contribute. And not that you'll give it much credence, but those behind the project say two strong SF supporters gave interviews to the project.

There's also nothing to indicate that anyone was denied the opportunity to contribute - surely we'd have heard if that was the case. Therefore your claim that the "only ones allowed" to contribute... has no basis whatsoever.
I said "evidence" of. Easy to claim that two "pro-SF" people contributed when it's confidential! But again,  to a man, everyone we do know to be associated with the project held the same particular grudge. Could be a coincidence of course, but going on what we DO know, I think that's not bloody likely.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 05:29:59 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 05:09:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:59:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
Tommy Gorman, one of the interviewees for the Boston College Project, had this letter in todays Irish News


Some years ago, I was asked to take part in a project which, it was hoped, would help enhance understanding of the decades of political bloodletting that blighted our land and people.

I felt the plan to construct the archive by getting the thoughts and experiences of former combatants, and to examine the factors that led to people like us deciding to risk all in pursuance of our differing causes, would be valuable and instructive to future generations who may want to know what it was all about and hopefully help ensure it doesn't happen again.

And with eyes wide open and no hesitation I offered to help in any way I could.

I did the interviews in which I tried to describe the feeling of the community and the mood within the republican movement when the conflict was at different stages as well the prison struggle.

I didn't speak of any other volunteers just as I didn't expect them to speak of me. They were, after all, personal reminiscences from a very bloody period in our history.

Unfortunately, those at Boston College have not lived up to declarations made at the onset of the project in regards to confidentiality and assurances that the archive would remain secure from any external snooping.

The resulting media frenzy has allowed Shinner spinners and semi-literate graffitists to go into overdrive in attacking those of us among the many interviewees who don't agree that what is being peddled by Sinn Fein as 'the great leap forward' is anything of the sort.

In socio-economic, constitutional and inter-community development the opposite is true.

With the recent exposure of  post-ceasefire gunrunning by those 'fully committed to the peace process and support for the PSNI' we all should be dubious as to any excuse offered as to why, in this period of peace, there is a need for guns that are untraceable with no history or connection to any person or group.

One thing is sure: there is no way they are to be turned on the old enemy.

In all of our actions we must always strive to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable by refusing to be silenced

Further evidence, as if it were needed, that the only ones allowed to participate in this "history project" were people with a grudge against Sinn Féin. It's laughable at this stage!
It's hardly definitive. Neither you nor I know exactly who was interviewed, or indeed who declined to be interviewed.
Indeed but it's "further evidence" as I said. We don't know everyone who took part but all those we do know the identities of (particpants and organisers) have, to a man, got that one key think in common.

http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/ (http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/)
It's only further evidence of another anti SF contributor, nothing more.

There's no evidence that only people with such views were allowed to contribute. And not that you'll give it much credence, but those behind the project say two strong SF supporters gave interviews to the project.

There's also nothing to indicate that anyone was denied the opportunity to contribute - surely we'd have heard if that was the case. Therefore your claim that the "only ones allowed" to contribute... has no basis whatsoever.
I said "evidence" of. Easy to claim that two "pro-SF" people contributed when it's confidential! But again,  to a man, everyone we do know to be associated with the project held the same particular grudge. Could be a coincidence of course, but going on what we DO know, I think that's not bloody likely.
Given the position SF has taken on the project, any supporters who might have contributed can't admit to it.

But whatever about who did contribute, you have absolutely no basis for claiming that only certain people were allowed to participate, or that people of a certain political persuasion were not allowed to participate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 12:32:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 05:29:59 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 05:09:53 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:59:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2014, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 16, 2014, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
Tommy Gorman, one of the interviewees for the Boston College Project, had this letter in todays Irish News


Some years ago, I was asked to take part in a project which, it was hoped, would help enhance understanding of the decades of political bloodletting that blighted our land and people.

I felt the plan to construct the archive by getting the thoughts and experiences of former combatants, and to examine the factors that led to people like us deciding to risk all in pursuance of our differing causes, would be valuable and instructive to future generations who may want to know what it was all about and hopefully help ensure it doesn't happen again.

And with eyes wide open and no hesitation I offered to help in any way I could.

I did the interviews in which I tried to describe the feeling of the community and the mood within the republican movement when the conflict was at different stages as well the prison struggle.

I didn't speak of any other volunteers just as I didn't expect them to speak of me. They were, after all, personal reminiscences from a very bloody period in our history.

Unfortunately, those at Boston College have not lived up to declarations made at the onset of the project in regards to confidentiality and assurances that the archive would remain secure from any external snooping.

The resulting media frenzy has allowed Shinner spinners and semi-literate graffitists to go into overdrive in attacking those of us among the many interviewees who don't agree that what is being peddled by Sinn Fein as 'the great leap forward' is anything of the sort.

In socio-economic, constitutional and inter-community development the opposite is true.

With the recent exposure of  post-ceasefire gunrunning by those 'fully committed to the peace process and support for the PSNI' we all should be dubious as to any excuse offered as to why, in this period of peace, there is a need for guns that are untraceable with no history or connection to any person or group.

One thing is sure: there is no way they are to be turned on the old enemy.

In all of our actions we must always strive to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable by refusing to be silenced

Further evidence, as if it were needed, that the only ones allowed to participate in this "history project" were people with a grudge against Sinn Féin. It's laughable at this stage!
It's hardly definitive. Neither you nor I know exactly who was interviewed, or indeed who declined to be interviewed.
Indeed but it's "further evidence" as I said. We don't know everyone who took part but all those we do know the identities of (particpants and organisers) have, to a man, got that one key think in common.

http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/ (http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/research-boston-college-tapes/)
It's only further evidence of another anti SF contributor, nothing more.

There's no evidence that only people with such views were allowed to contribute. And not that you'll give it much credence, but those behind the project say two strong SF supporters gave interviews to the project.

There's also nothing to indicate that anyone was denied the opportunity to contribute - surely we'd have heard if that was the case. Therefore your claim that the "only ones allowed" to contribute... has no basis whatsoever.
I said "evidence" of. Easy to claim that two "pro-SF" people contributed when it's confidential! But again,  to a man, everyone we do know to be associated with the project held the same particular grudge. Could be a coincidence of course, but going on what we DO know, I think that's not bloody likely.
Given the position SF has taken on the project, any supporters who might have contributed can't admit to it.

But whatever about who did contribute, you have absolutely no basis for claiming that only certain people were allowed to participate, or that people of a certain political persuasion were not allowed to participate.
I'd repeat myself but I'll not bother.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?

No I don't believe any allegation that I hear about anyone, but usually, as a general rule of thumb, if I read allegations of a high profile person been involved in murders in reputable newspapers, then I want to see what becomes of it. Wouldn't you have the same curiosity?

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I have generally found that anyone accused of a serious crime in a reputable newspaper usually challenges the newspaper or the person making those claims in a legal manner.

2 weeks RTE had to apologise to Gerry Adams in relation to a complaint he made as in relation to a failure on their behalf to use the word "allegedly" in a news report relating to the DPP seeking a review of a decision not to prosecute Gerry for withholding evidence about his brother, Liam.

This was their apology:

On the 7th of October, Drivetime broadcast an inaccurate report which was repeated on a number of news bulletins during the programme in relation to Mr Gerry Adams TD.

This report incorrectly stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams for withholding evidence about his brother.

The reports should have stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader for allegedly withholding evidence about his brother.

RTE apologises to Gerry Adams for this error.

Now, i'm sure you have read the full transcript of Gerry's cross examination......

Then, this week Gerry hires the worlds leading libel lawyer to go after the Independent Newspaper group because they reported on the Police Ombusman investigating a claim by his sister in law, Liams wife, that Gerry was briefed in a public meeting by a policeman on Liams case prior to him giving evidence against his brother.

Now, considering the above examples of how Gerry went after RTE because they left out the word "alledged" in an article, and had to issue a public apology, and how he has hired the worlds leading libel lawyer to challenge the claim printed in 2 major newspapers by his sister in law that he was de briefed by a police man on his brothers rape trial, a claim that is been investigated by the police Ombusman, doesn't it strike you as odd that he didn't go after the Irish News, The Sunday Life, or the Telegraph when they printed claims by Dolours Price that he was involved in the execution of Jean McConville and others, claiming he couldn't afford the costs to prove those claims were false?

After all, he got RTE to apologise for leaving out the word "Allegedly" in their report, and if you were to have read Gerrys testimony in the link I posted earlier, you can understand how RTE made the simple error.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 09:14:11 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?

No I don't believe any allegation that I hear about anyone, but usually, as a general rule of thumb, if I read allegations of a high profile person been involved in murders in reputable newspapers, then I want to see what becomes of it. Wouldn't you have the same curiosity?

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I have generally found that anyone accused of a serious crime in a reputable newspaper usually challenges the newspaper or the person making those claims in a legal manner.

2 weeks RTE had to apologise to Gerry Adams in relation to a complaint he made as in relation to a failure on their behalf to use the word "allegedly" in a news report relating to the DPP seeking a review of a decision not to prosecute Gerry for withholding evidence about his brother, Liam.

This was their apology:

On the 7th of October, Drivetime broadcast an inaccurate report which was repeated on a number of news bulletins during the programme in relation to Mr Gerry Adams TD.

This report incorrectly stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams for withholding evidence about his brother.

The reports should have stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader for allegedly withholding evidence about his brother.

RTE apologises to Gerry Adams for this error.

Now, i'm sure you have read the full transcript of Gerry's cross examination......

Then, this week Gerry hires the worlds leading libel lawyer to go after the Independent Newspaper group because they reported on the Police Ombusman investigating a claim by his sister in law, Liams wife, that Gerry was briefed in a public meeting by a policeman on Liams case prior to him giving evidence against his brother.

Now, considering the above examples of how Gerry went after RTE because they left out the word "alledged" in an article, and had to issue a public apology, and how he has hired the worlds leading libel lawyer to challenge the claim printed in 2 major newspapers by his sister in law that he was de briefed by a police man on his brothers rape trial, a claim that is been investigated by the police Ombusman, doesn't it strike you as odd that he didn't go after the Irish News, The Sunday Life, or the Telegraph when they printed claims by Dolours Price that he was involved in the execution of Jean McConville and others, claiming he couldn't afford the costs to prove those claims were false?

After all, he got RTE to apologise for leaving out the word "Allegedly" in their report, and if you were to have read Gerrys testimony in the link I posted earlier, you can understand how RTE made the simple error.
Dixie give it up ffs. Like I keep asking and like you keep not answering, why the fcuk should you or he get the knickers in a twist over Delours Price making unsubstantiated allegations about his activities during the conflict over anybody else doing the exact same? She was just yet another person in the queue with A: a grudge against Gerry; B: An allegation to throw up at him; and C: no evidence to substantiate their claims. Perhaps he had the sense to know he'd never be out of courtrooms if he set a precedence of taking action against them all. And perhaps he knew that one day he'd make himself available for questioning and/or be arrested over his past and knew that he would walk out a free man and that his decision not to run to court to take action against every tom, dick, harry or Delours would be vindicated by his walking out a free, innocent man on his own terms. And again, why your obsession with Delours' unsubstantiated allegations over any one of the countless others you could pull out of the air?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 09:50:38 AM
I think you should give this up Nally

Dixie is running rings round you with reason and logic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 09:50:38 AM
I think you should give this up Nally

Dixie is running rings round you with reason and logic.

You sure?  Cos last time I checked,  Adams was an innocent man!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 17, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 09:50:38 AM
I think you should give this up Nally

Dixie is running rings round you with reason and logic.

You sure?  Cos last time I checked,  Adams was an innocent man!


Another opinion poll this time on whether voters think Gerry is innocent or not - half reckon he's not innocent.

Indo.

NEARLY half of voters believe Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was involved in the murder of mother-of-ten Jean McConville, an Irish Independent/Millward Brown opinion poll reveals.

In a damning finding for Mr Adams, the poll shows that less than a quarter of voters believe him when he says that he had no role in the IRA's abduction and murder of Mrs McConville, a widow from Belfast.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mylestheslasher on May 17, 2014, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 17, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 09:50:38 AM
I think you should give this up Nally

Dixie is running rings round you with reason and logic.

You sure?  Cos last time I checked,  Adams was an innocent man!


Another opinion poll this time on whether voters think Gerry is innocent or not - half reckon he's not innocent.

Indo.

NEARLY half of voters believe Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was involved in the murder of mother-of-ten Jean McConville, an Irish Independent/Millward Brown opinion poll reveals.

In a damning finding for Mr Adams, the poll shows that less than a quarter of voters believe him when he says that he had no role in the IRA's abduction and murder of Mrs McConville, a widow from Belfast.

Maybe not so damning. Its like readers of the Nazi Chronicle newspaper voting overwhelmingly that they think Jews are the root of all evil.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on May 17, 2014, 11:25:10 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 17, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 09:50:38 AM
I think you should give this up Nally

Dixie is running rings round you with reason and logic.

You sure?  Cos last time I checked,  Adams was an innocent man!


Another opinion poll this time on whether voters think Gerry is innocent or not - half reckon he's not innocent.

Indo.

NEARLY half of voters believe Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was involved in the murder of mother-of-ten Jean McConville, an Irish Independent/Millward Brown opinion poll reveals.

In a damning finding for Mr Adams, the poll shows that less than a quarter of voters believe him when he says that he had no role in the IRA's abduction and murder of Mrs McConville, a widow from Belfast.

Mad poll. 100% don't know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bensars on May 17, 2014, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 17, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 09:50:38 AM
I think you should give this up Nally

Dixie is running rings round you with reason and logic.

You sure?  Cos last time I checked,  Adams was an innocent man!


Another opinion poll this time on whether voters think Gerry is innocent or not - half reckon he's not innocent.

Indo.

NEARLY half of voters believe Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was involved in the murder of mother-of-ten Jean McConville, an Irish Independent/Millward Brown opinion poll reveals.

In a damning finding for Mr Adams, the poll shows that less than a quarter of voters believe him when he says that he had no role in the IRA's abduction and murder of Mrs McConville, a widow from Belfast.



Totally irrelevant. It's a good job people aren't convicted based on opinion polls.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 17, 2014, 02:00:44 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 17, 2014, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 17, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 09:50:38 AM
I think you should give this up Nally

Dixie is running rings round you with reason and logic.

You sure?  Cos last time I checked,  Adams was an innocent man!


Another opinion poll this time on whether voters think Gerry is innocent or not - half reckon he's not innocent.

Indo.

NEARLY half of voters believe Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was involved in the murder of mother-of-ten Jean McConville, an Irish Independent/Millward Brown opinion poll reveals.

In a damning finding for Mr Adams, the poll shows that less than a quarter of voters believe him when he says that he had no role in the IRA's abduction and murder of Mrs McConville, a widow from Belfast.

Maybe not so damning. Its like readers of the Nazi Chronicle newspaper voting overwhelmingly that they think Jews are the root of all evil.
To be fair, it's not a poll of Independent readers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 02:58:44 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 17, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 09:50:38 AM
I think you should give this up Nally

Dixie is running rings round you with reason and logic.

You sure?  Cos last time I checked,  Adams was an innocent man!


Another opinion poll this time on whether voters think Gerry is innocent or not - half reckon he's not innocent.

Indo.

NEARLY half of voters believe Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was involved in the murder of mother-of-ten Jean McConville, an Irish Independent/Millward Brown opinion poll reveals.

In a damning finding for Mr Adams, the poll shows that less than a quarter of voters believe him when he says that he had no role in the IRA's abduction and murder of Mrs McConville, a widow from Belfast.

I'm sure they all know something the police still didn't after four days of questioning. What's the chance that almost 100% of those who believe Brendan Hughes' allegation of Adams' involvement would also point blank refuse to accept his claim that she was informer. Suits the agenda better to claim she was abducted and killed for helping a wounded british soldier after all. Makes Adams look like an big bad ogre sure  ::)

To borrow a specific piece from an article I linked yesterday from Jude Collins:

Finally,  a short Catechism q and a to see if you have a firm grasp on this matter:

Q: Who killed Jean McConville?

A: Gerry Adams

Q: Why did he kill her?

A: Because she put a coat under the head of a dying soldier.

Q: Has her body ever been recovered?

A: No.

Q: Why does Gerry Adams say he wasn't in the IRA?

A: Because he likes telling lies.

Q: Some people claim that Jean McConville was an informer. Do you believe that?

A: I most certainly do not.

Q: Why do you say that?

A: The papers hardly ever mention it.

Q:OK, pick up you BT Certificate of Merit on the way out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 17, 2014, 03:21:05 PM
Did the Ombudsman not say the informer claims were without foundation?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 17, 2014, 03:21:05 PM
Did the Ombudsman not say the informer claims were without foundation?

Sure did but Nally ignores that.. Sure didn't the Provos say she was so that's that then.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 03:44:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 09:14:11 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?

No I don't believe any allegation that I hear about anyone, but usually, as a general rule of thumb, if I read allegations of a high profile person been involved in murders in reputable newspapers, then I want to see what becomes of it. Wouldn't you have the same curiosity?

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I have generally found that anyone accused of a serious crime in a reputable newspaper usually challenges the newspaper or the person making those claims in a legal manner.

2 weeks RTE had to apologise to Gerry Adams in relation to a complaint he made as in relation to a failure on their behalf to use the word "allegedly" in a news report relating to the DPP seeking a review of a decision not to prosecute Gerry for withholding evidence about his brother, Liam.

This was their apology:

On the 7th of October, Drivetime broadcast an inaccurate report which was repeated on a number of news bulletins during the programme in relation to Mr Gerry Adams TD.

This report incorrectly stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams for withholding evidence about his brother.

The reports should have stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader for allegedly withholding evidence about his brother.

RTE apologises to Gerry Adams for this error.

Now, i'm sure you have read the full transcript of Gerry's cross examination......

Then, this week Gerry hires the worlds leading libel lawyer to go after the Independent Newspaper group because they reported on the Police Ombusman investigating a claim by his sister in law, Liams wife, that Gerry was briefed in a public meeting by a policeman on Liams case prior to him giving evidence against his brother.

Now, considering the above examples of how Gerry went after RTE because they left out the word "alledged" in an article, and had to issue a public apology, and how he has hired the worlds leading libel lawyer to challenge the claim printed in 2 major newspapers by his sister in law that he was de briefed by a police man on his brothers rape trial, a claim that is been investigated by the police Ombusman, doesn't it strike you as odd that he didn't go after the Irish News, The Sunday Life, or the Telegraph when they printed claims by Dolours Price that he was involved in the execution of Jean McConville and others, claiming he couldn't afford the costs to prove those claims were false?

After all, he got RTE to apologise for leaving out the word "Allegedly" in their report, and if you were to have read Gerrys testimony in the link I posted earlier, you can understand how RTE made the simple error.
Dixie give it up ffs. Like I keep asking and like you keep not answering, why the fcuk should you or he get the knickers in a twist over Delours Price making unsubstantiated allegations about his activities during the conflict over anybody else doing the exact same? She was just yet another person in the queue with A: a grudge against Gerry; B: An allegation to throw up at him; and C: no evidence to substantiate their claims. Perhaps he had the sense to know he'd never be out of courtrooms if he set a precedence of taking action against them all. And perhaps he knew that one day he'd make himself available for questioning and/or be arrested over his past and knew that he would walk out a free man and that his decision not to run to court to take action against every tom, dick, harry or Delours would be vindicated by his walking out a free, innocent man on his own terms. And again, why your obsession with Delours' unsubstantiated allegations over any one of the countless others you could pull out of the air?

Nally, in case you havn't read what I posted I will repeat myself one more time.

A. Dolours made claims carried in 3 major newspapers that Gerry was involved in murders.

B. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court to defend his name.

C. RTE leave out the word "Allegdley" and Gerry uses any resource available to him and he gets RTE to issue an apology (And when you read his court transcript, you can understand why or how they left that word out)


D. The Independent newspaper group report on the fact that the Police Ombusman are investigating a claim that he was de briefed by a policeman prior to his brothers trial, and Gerry is straight out of the blocks saying it's not true and showing that money is no obstacle, he hires a lawyer who represents a member of the Royal family.

So Nally, when you look at it, you will see how Gerry has no problem defending himself over petty things, but when 3 major newspapers carry a story that he was involved in murders, he just shrugged his shoulders and said shes lying, but I can't afford to go to court to defend myself against her or the 3 newspapers. Despite what you say, this was the one and only reason why he said he wouldn't go to court.

Nally, the thing about liars like Gerry and Glens, is that after you have found them out telling lies, how can you believe anything they say afterwards? Did you believe him when he stood before the Irish nation and told us all that he was "estranged" from his brother for 15 years? Subsequent events proved beyond any doubt that he stood before us and lied. How can we believe or indeed trust him when it was proven that he covered up child abuse.

Gerry may very well be telling the truth, but considering how he lied to everyone before, how can we tell he is telling the truth in this instance? Are you 100% confident he is telling the truth and that 3 major newspapers printed lies by Dolours Price?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 17, 2014, 05:22:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 09:14:11 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?

No I don't believe any allegation that I hear about anyone, but usually, as a general rule of thumb, if I read allegations of a high profile person been involved in murders in reputable newspapers, then I want to see what becomes of it. Wouldn't you have the same curiosity?

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I have generally found that anyone accused of a serious crime in a reputable newspaper usually challenges the newspaper or the person making those claims in a legal manner.

2 weeks RTE had to apologise to Gerry Adams in relation to a complaint he made as in relation to a failure on their behalf to use the word "allegedly" in a news report relating to the DPP seeking a review of a decision not to prosecute Gerry for withholding evidence about his brother, Liam.

This was their apology:

On the 7th of October, Drivetime broadcast an inaccurate report which was repeated on a number of news bulletins during the programme in relation to Mr Gerry Adams TD.

This report incorrectly stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams for withholding evidence about his brother.

The reports should have stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader for allegedly withholding evidence about his brother.

RTE apologises to Gerry Adams for this error.

Now, i'm sure you have read the full transcript of Gerry's cross examination......

Then, this week Gerry hires the worlds leading libel lawyer to go after the Independent Newspaper group because they reported on the Police Ombusman investigating a claim by his sister in law, Liams wife, that Gerry was briefed in a public meeting by a policeman on Liams case prior to him giving evidence against his brother.

Now, considering the above examples of how Gerry went after RTE because they left out the word "alledged" in an article, and had to issue a public apology, and how he has hired the worlds leading libel lawyer to challenge the claim printed in 2 major newspapers by his sister in law that he was de briefed by a police man on his brothers rape trial, a claim that is been investigated by the police Ombusman, doesn't it strike you as odd that he didn't go after the Irish News, The Sunday Life, or the Telegraph when they printed claims by Dolours Price that he was involved in the execution of Jean McConville and others, claiming he couldn't afford the costs to prove those claims were false?

After all, he got RTE to apologise for leaving out the word "Allegedly" in their report, and if you were to have read Gerrys testimony in the link I posted earlier, you can understand how RTE made the simple error.
Dixie give it up ffs. Like I keep asking and like you keep not answering, why the fcuk should you or he get the knickers in a twist over Delours Price making unsubstantiated allegations about his activities during the conflict over anybody else doing the exact same? She was just yet another person in the queue with A: a grudge against Gerry; B: An allegation to throw up at him; and C: no evidence to substantiate their claims. Perhaps he had the sense to know he'd never be out of courtrooms if he set a precedence of taking action against them all. And perhaps he knew that one day he'd make himself available for questioning and/or be arrested over his past and knew that he would walk out a free man and that his decision not to run to court to take action against every tom, dick, harry or Delours would be vindicated by his walking out a free, innocent man on his own terms. And again, why your obsession with Delours' unsubstantiated allegations over any one of the countless others you could pull out of the air?

nally when compulsive liars like McIntyre,Dixie and their ilk get caught out they just keep digging hoping they can lie their way out of it.They have been found out for what they are and the only people who believe them now  are those with a similar hatred for the Shinners.It is better to ignore them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 05:36:21 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 16, 2014, 07:31:06 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:14:55 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 10:18:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 15, 2014, 04:30:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 15, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
Some people need to be very careful about spreading lies.

Says the man who has spent months spreading lies........

Takes one to know one. ;)

Glens, now that you have finally admitted to been a liar, can you please explain to me what you claim to know about my brother in laws when you claimed the following:

"You keep an eye on the brother in laws with the money down your part of the world Dixie."

"now tell us what causes the brother in laws are involved in."


These are fairly serious allegations Glens, and i'm sure they are against the ethos and rules of the GAA Board.

Now would you care to explain what you mean?

Again selective reading,I didn't say your brother in laws I said the Brother in laws and don't pretend you don't know about who I am referring.

Glens, can I respectfully ask you once again to explain what you mean in relation to "The brothers in law".

Given the snide and condescending manner in which you brought it up in 2 separate posts, there has to be some meaning to it, and it's relation to me?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 05:46:54 PM
Yes. I'm from the same neck of the woods as Dixie.

I'm wondering who these brothers in law are as well

Are you going to tell us Glens?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 06:03:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 17, 2014, 03:21:05 PM
Did the Ombudsman not say the informer claims were without foundation?
And? So are the claims about Gerry Adams. And after four days of questioning there was still no foundation to the allegations. This is about what people choose to believe Maguire. If the ombudsman was so definitive that Brendan Hughes was' claim she was killed for being an informer was untrue, then why are people blindly taking his word on the "Adams did it" part of of his claims? Is it cos it's just what they'd like to believe and nothing more, perhaps?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 17, 2014, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 17, 2014, 11:25:10 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 17, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 09:50:38 AM
I think you should give this up Nally

Dixie is running rings round you with reason and logic.

You sure?  Cos last time I checked,  Adams was an innocent man!


Another opinion poll this time on whether voters think Gerry is innocent or not - half reckon he's not innocent.

Indo.

NEARLY half of voters believe Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was involved in the murder of mother-of-ten Jean McConville, an Irish Independent/Millward Brown opinion poll reveals.

In a damning finding for Mr Adams, the poll shows that less than a quarter of voters believe him when he says that he had no role in the IRA's abduction and murder of Mrs McConville, a widow from Belfast.

Mad poll. 100% don't know.

25% do know, but won't say. These votes count.
35% also know but their votes were discounted because they were 'discredited'.
50% don't know but are obviously Nazis and thus wouldn't count, even if they did know.
45% think they know but the first 25%, who won't say anything, count far more so these votes are discounted.
80% don't want to know, but actually do know deep down. But these votes are also 'discredited'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 17, 2014, 09:56:03 PM
These voters are anti democracy. Their votes should be taken off them and given to democrats.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 11:06:17 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.

Good man yourself Myles. Top drawer political analysis from you as always!

EU Poll: Sinn Fein to top the poll in Dublin - first survey since Gerry Adams arrest points to rise in party support (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/eu-poll-sinn-fein-to-top-the-poll-in-dublin-first-survey-since-gerry-adams-arrest-points-to-rise-in-party-support-30282565.html)

Poll suggests SF & Independents' support has increased since 2009 local elections (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0517/618030-poll-suggests-sf-independents-gain-support/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 17, 2014, 11:46:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 11:06:17 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.

Good man yourself Myles. Top drawer political analysis from you as always!

EU Poll: Sinn Fein to top the poll in Dublin - first survey since Gerry Adams arrest points to rise in party support (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/eu-poll-sinn-fein-to-top-the-poll-in-dublin-first-survey-since-gerry-adams-arrest-points-to-rise-in-party-support-30282565.html)

Poll suggests SF & Independents' support has increased since 2009 local elections (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0517/618030-poll-suggests-sf-independents-gain-support/)

Job done. Mission accomplished. It's just hard to believe so many people fell for it. A master stroke.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 18, 2014, 12:11:23 AM
Does anyone know much about Martin Morris, and who he might be a brother in law off? What exactly was he arrested for in London originally? How did he then end up in a courtroom in Belfast? And why did the crown prosecution offer no evidence?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27027645

Was the release of Marty linked to the dropping of charges against Paudric Wilson, Seamus Finnucane, Briedge Wright, and Maura McCrory? 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27329339

What were these alledged meeting about? Also, what are the nature of the charges against Marty Morris, and why is he facing them outside of Ireland?

Can anyone shed any light on the curious case of Marty Morris?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 18, 2014, 01:15:24 AM
I did a bit of digging there, and I found this very interesting article............

17 January 2010

The late Joe Cahill, a founding Provisional, was so shocked by the abuse a female relative claims she suffered he said she should have gone to the RUC. Suzanne Breen hears her story

The PIRAwomen ordered the teenager to go into the room to face the man she'd said had repeatedly raped her. "They said they would read the body language between us to determine who was telling the truth," says ****** Cahill, who doesn't want to reveal her first name."I was only 18. M, the man who raped me, was nearly 40 and a prominent west Belfast PIRA member. The PIRA women drove me to the flat in Kenard Avenue in Andersonstown. And then Seamie Finucane, the Belfast Brigade adjutant, walked in with M. I felt physically sick when I saw M."Seamie sat down on the living room floor, took off his trainers and joked about having smelly feet. It was surreal. This was meant to be a serious investigation into sexual abuse.

"M was handed the statement outlining the allegations I'd made. He said I was lying. 'You're a sick bastard claiming I did this to you,' he shouted. I yelled back that I was telling the truth. Seamie Finucane asked me to withdraw my statement but I wouldn't. I said I wasn't leaving the house until M admitted what he'd done. The Provisional IRA ended the meeting."

It's 10 years since that night in Andersonstown and Cahill sits in her own flat in west Belfast. She's an attractive, intelligent and confident young woman who now holds a good job in the criminal justice system.

Yet it takes her five hours, interspersed with countless tea breaks, because she becomes so emotional, to tell the story of how M raped her dozens of time when she was 16 and how the Provisional IRA and Provisional Sinn Féin engaged in a massive cover-up.

Speaking out isn't easy, she says, because loyalty to the movement is ingrained in her.

In republican terms, her family is royalty. She's a grand-niece of Joe Cahill, a Provisional IRA founder and former chief-of-staff who died six years ago. His photograph has pride of place in her house. She produces the copy of his biography that he gave her. "To cheeky face, my favourite niece, love Uncle Joe," he wrote inside.

She was Ógra Provisional Sinn Féin national secretary when the abuse began in the summer of 1997. She was working for the west Belfast festival radio station. M, an ex-IRA prisoner and leading member of the Provisionals' punishment squad in the Upper Springfield, was one of many republicans in the station.

Somewhere to stay

Danny Morrison, Jake Jackson, and Eoin O'Broin were all involved in the festival radio station. Caitriona Ruane was the festival director and Gerry Adams sat on its management committee. "My parents were on holiday in Donegal so I needed somewhere to stay that summer. M suggested I stay in Ballymurphy with him and his wife who was a relative," Cahill says.

"He told my parents he'd look after me. He talked politics with me and I was delighted not to be treated like a child. One night in the house, he was drinking tins of Harp and he offered me one. 'You're a big girl not a child,' he said.

"I hadn't drunk before that but I took a few tins. His wife went to bed. I fell asleep on the sofa. I woke up to find he'd unzipped my black trousers and pulled them and my knickers down. His fingers were inside me. I should have screamed but I didn't.

"I kept thinking his wife was upstairs and of the embarrassment this would cause in our family. I pretended to still be asleep. I was a virgin so what he was doing hurt me. He masturbated over me and rubbed it on my stomach. When I went to the bathroom later, I was bleeding."

M raped Cahill dozens of times after that. It always began when she was sleeping. "Every time, I pretended to continue sleeping. I know that was the wrong thing to do. But I was frightened because of his position in the Provisional IRA and I didn't want to cause pain to my family. When I didn't speak out the first time, it set a pattern which I now deeply regret – but I was only 16 then."

Worried

Cahill started rapidly losing weight: "I looked like something out of the famine." She confided in her cousin Siobhan O'Hanlon, Gerry Adams' secretary: "I told Siobhan that M was raping me and I was worried I could be pregnant."

She wasn't pregnant, and the rape stopped when she returned to live with her parents.

In 1998, Cahill told a north Belfast PIRA woman. Later, she told a female Sinn Féin Belfast politician whose name is known to the Sunday Tribune.

That woman officially informed the Provisional IRA. In September 1999, a west Belfast PIRA woman – whose name is known to the Sunday Tribune – instructed Cahill to attend a meeting that night. "I was told to stand outside Xtravision on the Andersonstown Road. A car pulled up and I was driven to the flat in Kenard Avenue.

"Seamie Finucane walked in. I was terrified. The PIRA woman said: 'We're here because you've made allegations about M. We can't have these allegations circulating about a volunteer so we're investigating them.'"

Five months into the Provisional IRA 'investigation' Cahill was brought into the Andersonstown flat to face M. Several weeks later, the PIRA brought Cahill and a male relative to a meeting. They said they'd closed their investigation and it was up to her family to deal with the case. It was the first time any family member had heard she'd been raped. "I burst into tears and my relative hugged me."

In July 2000, five months after the Provisional IRA had closed its 'investigation', two of Cahill's cousins – then aged 17 and 14 – came forward and said M had sexually abused them two years earlier. People had seen M lifting one of the girls drunk from a social club into a taxi. Neighbours had then watched him carry her from a taxi into his home. The PIRA reopened the investigation. "I told them I wanted nothing to do with it," Cahill says. "I wanted to go to the Rape Crisis Centre. I said I needed professional help."

The Provisional IRA said M was under 'house arrest' in Ardoyne. Days later, Cahill was told he had 'escaped'. Now she confided in her Uncle Joe (80) whom she had wanted to protect from hearing she'd been raped. "He said, 'If I'd known I'd have told you to go to the RUC. There has been a f**k up of the highest order in the movement.'"

The word in Belfast was that the Provisional IRA had spirited M away to Donegal. "I don't believe he escaped," Cahill says. "The PIRA facilitated him leaving. I never wanted M killed. I wanted him tied to railings in Ballymurphy with a placard around his neck saying he was a rapist."

She then had many heated meetings with the PIRA and with Provisional Sinn Féin president, Gerry Adams. One IRA meeting at a flat in Andersonstown's Glassmullan Gardens was attended by Padraig Wilson, the IRA's go-between with the international decommissioning commission.

"He apologised on behalf of the army council that M had 'escaped'. I told him I wanted M brought back to Belfast. Padraig said the PIRA didn't have the resources for that. I said it was only a two-hour drive from Belfast to Donegal, and the PIRA had people in Donegal anyway that could go to the bed-and-breakfast M was staying in and fetch him.

"Padraig said: 'Do you think we should be running around after you?' I started crying. I said it wasn't just about me. M shouldn't have been allowed to go somewhere else he'd have access to kids."

Getting nowhere

After equally non-constructive meetings with Gerry Adams, Cahill stopped them, feeling "it was pointless, I was getting nowhere". She'd continued in Provisional Sinn Féin, addressing the 1999 anti-internment rally in Belfast and working for the party at Stormont. She remained a member until 2001 but grew increasingly disillusioned about how she'd been treated.

Even so, she wrote an article for An Phoblacht about her uncle Joe after he died. Inside, she was falling to pieces. She was on anti-depressants and sleeping tablets for nine years after she was raped. In 2006, she was admitted to the Royal Victoria Hospital after trying to kill herself.

Gerry Adams asked to meet her on release. "The first thing he said was, 'Are you still writing?' I lost my temper at his casual tone. I told him I'd been treated disgracefully and never once had the republican movement told me to go to the police or social services. I asked him to guarantee that no one abused would ever again be treated that way."

Later that year, M was spotted in the bar of Letterkenny's Clanree hotel. One of the two other children he abused had seen him in Letterkenny. Infuriated, their mother visited Gerry Adams. Cahill says: "She told me that Gerry replied, 'What do you want me to do, bar him from every bar in Ireland?'"

Cahill remains a republican but regrets that "a few powerful individuals put the preservation of the movement and their own position above the safety of children".


http://fiannaiochta.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/grand-niece-of-provo-legend-endured-horrific-sexual-abuse/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 18, 2014, 01:33:36 AM
Another article where we learn what Marty Morris was charged with.

4 counts of rape, 4 counts of indecent assualt on a child, 3 of gross indecency to a child, and 2 counts of gross indecency to a female.

The big question we need to ask, is why did the Crown Prosecution drop the charges?

(http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u588/kiliman1/INarticle_zpsda392fe5.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 18, 2014, 05:04:01 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 17, 2014, 05:22:08 PM
nally when compulsive liars like McIntyre,Dixie and their ilk get caught out they just keep digging hoping they can lie their way out of it.They have been found out for what they are and the only people who believe them now  are those with a similar hatred for the Shinners.It is better to ignore them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 18, 2014, 12:16:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 11:06:17 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.

Good man yourself Myles. Top drawer political analysis from you as always!

EU Poll: Sinn Fein to top the poll in Dublin - first survey since Gerry Adams arrest points to rise in party support (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/eu-poll-sinn-fein-to-top-the-poll-in-dublin-first-survey-since-gerry-adams-arrest-points-to-rise-in-party-support-30282565.html)

Poll suggests SF & Independents' support has increased since 2009 local elections (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0517/618030-poll-suggests-sf-independents-gain-support/)
The 2nd of those polls has 'don't knows' running at 25%, so I wouldn't get too carried away just yet. Both polls seem to have a 26 county focus too. Let's face it, if SF can't improve their vote in a state which has been living with austerity budgets for several years, there's something wrong. Let's see how they do in the north. I still think that Marty, Mary lou and Bobby Storey have between them scuppered their party's chances of increasing their vote up here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 18, 2014, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 18, 2014, 12:16:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 11:06:17 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.

Good man yourself Myles. Top drawer political analysis from you as always!

EU Poll: Sinn Fein to top the poll in Dublin - first survey since Gerry Adams arrest points to rise in party support (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/eu-poll-sinn-fein-to-top-the-poll-in-dublin-first-survey-since-gerry-adams-arrest-points-to-rise-in-party-support-30282565.html)

Poll suggests SF & Independents' support has increased since 2009 local elections (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0517/618030-poll-suggests-sf-independents-gain-support/)
The 2nd of those polls has 'don't knows' running at 25%, so I wouldn't get too carried away just yet. Both polls seem to have a 26 county focus too. Let's face it, if SF can't improve their vote in a state which has been living with austerity budgets for several years, there's something wrong. Let's see how they do in the north. I still think that Marty, Mary lou and Bobby Storey have between them scuppered their party's chances of increasing their vote up here.
Right!  So a 25% unknown rate and both polls only taking place in the 26 counties but still showing SF gains will mean SF are going to go back to 1994 levels of support? You crack me up!  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 18, 2014, 12:57:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 18, 2014, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 18, 2014, 12:16:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 11:06:17 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.

Good man yourself Myles. Top drawer political analysis from you as always!

EU Poll: Sinn Fein to top the poll in Dublin - first survey since Gerry Adams arrest points to rise in party support (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/eu-poll-sinn-fein-to-top-the-poll-in-dublin-first-survey-since-gerry-adams-arrest-points-to-rise-in-party-support-30282565.html)

Poll suggests SF & Independents' support has increased since 2009 local elections (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0517/618030-poll-suggests-sf-independents-gain-support/)
The 2nd of those polls has 'don't knows' running at 25%, so I wouldn't get too carried away just yet. Both polls seem to have a 26 county focus too. Let's face it, if SF can't improve their vote in a state which has been living with austerity budgets for several years, there's something wrong. Let's see how they do in the north. I still think that Marty, Mary lou and Bobby Storey have between them scuppered their party's chances of increasing their vote up here.
Right!  So a 25% unknown rate and both polls only taking place in the 26 counties but still showing SF gains will mean SF are going to go back to 1994 levels of support? You crack me up!  ;D
Polls aren't election results. Wait and see.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 18, 2014, 02:53:21 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 18, 2014, 12:57:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 18, 2014, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 18, 2014, 12:16:41 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 17, 2014, 11:06:17 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.

Good man yourself Myles. Top drawer political analysis from you as always!

EU Poll: Sinn Fein to top the poll in Dublin - first survey since Gerry Adams arrest points to rise in party support (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/eu-poll-sinn-fein-to-top-the-poll-in-dublin-first-survey-since-gerry-adams-arrest-points-to-rise-in-party-support-30282565.html)

Poll suggests SF & Independents' support has increased since 2009 local elections (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0517/618030-poll-suggests-sf-independents-gain-support/)
The 2nd of those polls has 'don't knows' running at 25%, so I wouldn't get too carried away just yet. Both polls seem to have a 26 county focus too. Let's face it, if SF can't improve their vote in a state which has been living with austerity budgets for several years, there's something wrong. Let's see how they do in the north. I still think that Marty, Mary lou and Bobby Storey have between them scuppered their party's chances of increasing their vote up here.
Right!  So a 25% unknown rate and both polls only taking place in the 26 counties but still showing SF gains will mean SF are going to go back to 1994 levels of support? You crack me up!  ;D
Polls aren't election results. Wait and see.
Haha ok Myles! Chat then  :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 18, 2014, 04:55:41 PM
The week in politics this morning.. Pearse v joan burton. He destroyed her start to finish. I was surprised the state broadcaster didnt do more to try and save her. In the end she tried to shout him down. Sad
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 18, 2014, 11:46:28 PM
Does anyone else think Glens is very like the Israeli spokesman Mark Regev?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd_js_oQAk
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 19, 2014, 12:09:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 18, 2014, 04:55:41 PM
The week in politics this morning.. Pearse v joan burton. He destroyed her start to finish. I was surprised the state broadcaster didnt do more to try and save her. In the end she tried to shout him down. Sad

Just as GAABaord is full of people who can  manage teams better than the managers that actually have to manage them, it is easy to propose untested solutions from the outside.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 12:53:44 AM
Marty boy been a bit economical with the truth.....

http://m.derryjournal.com/news/politics/is-this-standing-up-for-derry-eastwood-asks-mcguinness-1-6066481
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 08:40:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2014, 12:08:51 AM
Mac Coitir Abú

He def has a fighting chance of being elected.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 19, 2014, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?

No I don't believe any allegation that I hear about anyone, but usually, as a general rule of thumb, if I read allegations of a high profile person been involved in murders in reputable newspapers, then I want to see what becomes of it. Wouldn't you have the same curiosity?

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I have generally found that anyone accused of a serious crime in a reputable newspaper usually challenges the newspaper or the person making those claims in a legal manner.

2 weeks RTE had to apologise to Gerry Adams in relation to a complaint he made as in relation to a failure on their behalf to use the word "allegedly" in a news report relating to the DPP seeking a review of a decision not to prosecute Gerry for withholding evidence about his brother, Liam.

This was their apology:

On the 7th of October, Drivetime broadcast an inaccurate report which was repeated on a number of news bulletins during the programme in relation to Mr Gerry Adams TD.

This report incorrectly stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams for withholding evidence about his brother.

The reports should have stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader for allegedly withholding evidence about his brother.

RTE apologises to Gerry Adams for this error.

Now, i'm sure you have read the full transcript of Gerry's cross examination......

Then, this week Gerry hires the worlds leading libel lawyer to go after the Independent Newspaper group because they reported on the Police Ombusman investigating a claim by his sister in law, Liams wife, that Gerry was briefed in a public meeting by a policeman on Liams case prior to him giving evidence against his brother.

Now, considering the above examples of how Gerry went after RTE because they left out the word "alledged" in an article, and had to issue a public apology, and how he has hired the worlds leading libel lawyer to challenge the claim printed in 2 major newspapers by his sister in law that he was de briefed by a police man on his brothers rape trial, a claim that is been investigated by the police Ombusman, doesn't it strike you as odd that he didn't go after the Irish News, The Sunday Life, or the Telegraph when they printed claims by Dolours Price that he was involved in the execution of Jean McConville and others, claiming he couldn't afford the costs to prove those claims were false?
After all, he got RTE to apologise for leaving out the word "Allegedly" in their report, and if you were to have read Gerrys testimony in the link I posted earlier, you can understand how RTE made the simple error.

If they used the word alledged regarding Dolours alledgations he would have had no legal grounds to challenge them. You're logic is backwards. You are using the fact that he didn't challenge alledgations as proof that they are true. Totally twisted logic and if you can't see that then we'll agree to differ.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 19, 2014, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 12:53:44 AM
Marty boy been a bit economical with the truth.....

http://m.derryjournal.com/news/politics/is-this-standing-up-for-derry-eastwood-asks-mcguinness-1-6066481

To be fair it was a letter sent by one of the depts and Marty signed it and might not have read it. I'm sure he signs loads of letters every day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 11:22:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 08:40:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2014, 12:08:51 AM
Mac Coitir Abú

He def has a fighting chance of being elected.

Yo Glens, any chance you can explain what you mean by "The brothers in law"?

Its been a few days now and I am not the only one looking to know?

If you dont want to tell me on here publicly, then send me a pm.

Or if you are brave enough, I can meet you anywhere it suits and you can tell me face to face.

I cant be much fairer than that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 03:05:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 19, 2014, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?

No I don't believe any allegation that I hear about anyone, but usually, as a general rule of thumb, if I read allegations of a high profile person been involved in murders in reputable newspapers, then I want to see what becomes of it. Wouldn't you have the same curiosity?

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I have generally found that anyone accused of a serious crime in a reputable newspaper usually challenges the newspaper or the person making those claims in a legal manner.

2 weeks RTE had to apologise to Gerry Adams in relation to a complaint he made as in relation to a failure on their behalf to use the word "allegedly" in a news report relating to the DPP seeking a review of a decision not to prosecute Gerry for withholding evidence about his brother, Liam.

This was their apology:

On the 7th of October, Drivetime broadcast an inaccurate report which was repeated on a number of news bulletins during the programme in relation to Mr Gerry Adams TD.

This report incorrectly stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams for withholding evidence about his brother.

The reports should have stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader for allegedly withholding evidence about his brother.

RTE apologises to Gerry Adams for this error.

Now, i'm sure you have read the full transcript of Gerry's cross examination......

Then, this week Gerry hires the worlds leading libel lawyer to go after the Independent Newspaper group because they reported on the Police Ombusman investigating a claim by his sister in law, Liams wife, that Gerry was briefed in a public meeting by a policeman on Liams case prior to him giving evidence against his brother.

Now, considering the above examples of how Gerry went after RTE because they left out the word "alledged" in an article, and had to issue a public apology, and how he has hired the worlds leading libel lawyer to challenge the claim printed in 2 major newspapers by his sister in law that he was de briefed by a police man on his brothers rape trial, a claim that is been investigated by the police Ombusman, doesn't it strike you as odd that he didn't go after the Irish News, The Sunday Life, or the Telegraph when they printed claims by Dolours Price that he was involved in the execution of Jean McConville and others, claiming he couldn't afford the costs to prove those claims were false?
After all, he got RTE to apologise for leaving out the word "Allegedly" in their report, and if you were to have read Gerrys testimony in the link I posted earlier, you can understand how RTE made the simple error.

If they used the word alledged regarding Dolours alledgations he would have had no legal grounds to challenge them. You're logic is backwards. You are using the fact that he didn't challenge alledgations as proof that they are true. Totally twisted logic and if you can't see that then we'll agree to differ.

Now, could you point out to me where I claimed that the allegations are true? I was merely pointing out that he claimed he couldn't afford the costs to challenge the claims carried in 3 newspapers that he was involved in murder, yet he can afford to hire a lawyer who acts for a member of the Royal family?

Gerry has a long history of threatening to sue over different claims about him. I just found it odd he couldn't afford a lawyer, and merely pointed it out. People can make from it what they want, and you are entitled to draw your conclusions, which I respect.

This is the paragraph in whole where he talks about cost:

Mr Adams today described the Ms Price's allegations as "very, very serious" as well as "untrue" and "false". Asked why he did not attempt to sue Ms Price, Mr Adams said: "Because I don't have the money."



Some examples of Gerry threatening to sue newspapers:

The Evening Hearld

The Sinn Fein leader sent a letter to this paper after we published an interview with Ms McKendry in which she said Adams was "in fact dancing on Jean's grave" by running in the same constituency, Louth, where her mother's body was found in 2003.

Adams's solicitors McCartan & Burke claimed the article represented a "serious defamation" of their client who is "considering all legal remedies open to him". Ms McKendry said today she has never personally got a legal letter from the Sinn Fein chief. However, she added: "We did a programme one time and he threatened then to sue, but it came to nothing."

http://www.herald.ie/news/adams-now-threatens-to-sue-us-over-his-ira-past-27973466.html

And when the Sunday Tribune carried the story of his alleged involvement in child abuse coverup, which relates to the story posts 2 pages back,  A Sinn Fein spokesman said:

"The party was considering suing the Sunday Tribune because the "allegations were founded on innuendo and sensationalism and not facts".

He went on: "Gerry Adams and the party refute absolutely any allegation of covering up instances of abuse. Our position on these matters is crystal clear. At all times the welfare of children is paramount...

"If an allegation of sexual abuse is made against a Sinn Fein member the party ensures that the matter is reported to the relevant statutory authorities. The member is suspended from the party without prejudice."

He added: "It is not the job of Sinn Fein to establish guilt or innocence and we will await the outcome of the police investigation."

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/17255/gerry-adams-centre-sinn-fein-child-abuse-row#ixzz32AacVcoa





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 19, 2014, 03:07:15 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 03:05:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 19, 2014, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?

No I don't believe any allegation that I hear about anyone, but usually, as a general rule of thumb, if I read allegations of a high profile person been involved in murders in reputable newspapers, then I want to see what becomes of it. Wouldn't you have the same curiosity?

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I have generally found that anyone accused of a serious crime in a reputable newspaper usually challenges the newspaper or the person making those claims in a legal manner.

2 weeks RTE had to apologise to Gerry Adams in relation to a complaint he made as in relation to a failure on their behalf to use the word "allegedly" in a news report relating to the DPP seeking a review of a decision not to prosecute Gerry for withholding evidence about his brother, Liam.

This was their apology:

On the 7th of October, Drivetime broadcast an inaccurate report which was repeated on a number of news bulletins during the programme in relation to Mr Gerry Adams TD.

This report incorrectly stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams for withholding evidence about his brother.

The reports should have stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader for allegedly withholding evidence about his brother.

RTE apologises to Gerry Adams for this error.

Now, i'm sure you have read the full transcript of Gerry's cross examination......

Then, this week Gerry hires the worlds leading libel lawyer to go after the Independent Newspaper group because they reported on the Police Ombusman investigating a claim by his sister in law, Liams wife, that Gerry was briefed in a public meeting by a policeman on Liams case prior to him giving evidence against his brother.

Now, considering the above examples of how Gerry went after RTE because they left out the word "alledged" in an article, and had to issue a public apology, and how he has hired the worlds leading libel lawyer to challenge the claim printed in 2 major newspapers by his sister in law that he was de briefed by a police man on his brothers rape trial, a claim that is been investigated by the police Ombusman, doesn't it strike you as odd that he didn't go after the Irish News, The Sunday Life, or the Telegraph when they printed claims by Dolours Price that he was involved in the execution of Jean McConville and others, claiming he couldn't afford the costs to prove those claims were false?
After all, he got RTE to apologise for leaving out the word "Allegedly" in their report, and if you were to have read Gerrys testimony in the link I posted earlier, you can understand how RTE made the simple error.

If they used the word alledged regarding Dolours alledgations he would have had no legal grounds to challenge them. You're logic is backwards. You are using the fact that he didn't challenge alledgations as proof that they are true. Totally twisted logic and if you can't see that then we'll agree to differ.

Now, could you point out to me where I claimed that the allegations are true? I was merely pointing out that he claimed he couldn't afford the costs to challenge the claims carried in 3 newspapers that he was involved in murder, yet he can afford to hire a lawyer who acts for a member of the Royal family?

Gerry has a long history of threatening to sue over different claims about him. I just found it odd he couldn't afford a lawyer, and merely pointed it out. People can make from it what they want, and you are entitled to draw your conclusions, which I respect.

This is the paragraph in whole where he talks about cost:

Mr Adams today described the Ms Price's allegations as "very, very serious" as well as "untrue" and "false". Asked why he did not attempt to sue Ms Price, Mr Adams said: "Because I don't have the money."



Some examples of Gerry threatening to sue newspapers:

The Evening Hearld

The Sinn Fein leader sent a letter to this paper after we published an interview with Ms McKendry in which she said Adams was "in fact dancing on Jean's grave" by running in the same constituency, Louth, where her mother's body was found in 2003.

Adams's solicitors McCartan & Burke claimed the article represented a "serious defamation" of their client who is "considering all legal remedies open to him". Ms McKendry said today she has never personally got a legal letter from the Sinn Fein chief. However, she added: "We did a programme one time and he threatened then to sue, but it came to nothing."

http://www.herald.ie/news/adams-now-threatens-to-sue-us-over-his-ira-past-27973466.html

And when the Sunday Tribune carried the story of his alleged involvement in child abuse coverup, which relates to the story posts 2 pages back,  A Sinn Fein spokesman said:

"The party was considering suing the Sunday Tribune because the "allegations were founded on innuendo and sensationalism and not facts".

He went on: "Gerry Adams and the party refute absolutely any allegation of covering up instances of abuse. Our position on these matters is crystal clear. At all times the welfare of children is paramount...

"If an allegation of sexual abuse is made against a Sinn Fein member the party ensures that the matter is reported to the relevant statutory authorities. The member is suspended from the party without prejudice."

He added: "It is not the job of Sinn Fein to establish guilt or innocence and we will await the outcome of the police investigation."

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/17255/gerry-adams-centre-sinn-fein-child-abuse-row#ixzz32AacVcoa

Still wondering why you're singling out Delours' unsubstantiated allegations over the unsubstantiated allegations from so many countless others with grudges against him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 03:22:47 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 19, 2014, 03:07:15 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 03:05:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 19, 2014, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 17, 2014, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 16, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2014, 08:22:48 AM
Dixie, no harm you keep quoting the Dolours Price allegations as if they're proof of Gerry being involved. Had it been the other way about you would be clamering for evidence. You can't have it both ways.

The point I am making is simple.

Woman says Gerry was involved in murders. Gerry says he can't afford to go to court.

Woman says Gerry spoke to a policeman. Gerry hires in the worlds top libel lawyer.

And my point is that your point is nonsense. AQMP has already explained why.

I'll ask a simple question, Do you believe every allegation you hear about anyone if that person doesn't challenge it in Court?

No I don't believe any allegation that I hear about anyone, but usually, as a general rule of thumb, if I read allegations of a high profile person been involved in murders in reputable newspapers, then I want to see what becomes of it. Wouldn't you have the same curiosity?

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I have generally found that anyone accused of a serious crime in a reputable newspaper usually challenges the newspaper or the person making those claims in a legal manner.

2 weeks RTE had to apologise to Gerry Adams in relation to a complaint he made as in relation to a failure on their behalf to use the word "allegedly" in a news report relating to the DPP seeking a review of a decision not to prosecute Gerry for withholding evidence about his brother, Liam.

This was their apology:

On the 7th of October, Drivetime broadcast an inaccurate report which was repeated on a number of news bulletins during the programme in relation to Mr Gerry Adams TD.

This report incorrectly stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams for withholding evidence about his brother.

The reports should have stated that the Northern Ireland Director of Public Prosecutions had asked for a review of the decision not to prosecute the Sinn Féin leader for allegedly withholding evidence about his brother.

RTE apologises to Gerry Adams for this error.

Now, i'm sure you have read the full transcript of Gerry's cross examination......

Then, this week Gerry hires the worlds leading libel lawyer to go after the Independent Newspaper group because they reported on the Police Ombusman investigating a claim by his sister in law, Liams wife, that Gerry was briefed in a public meeting by a policeman on Liams case prior to him giving evidence against his brother.

Now, considering the above examples of how Gerry went after RTE because they left out the word "alledged" in an article, and had to issue a public apology, and how he has hired the worlds leading libel lawyer to challenge the claim printed in 2 major newspapers by his sister in law that he was de briefed by a police man on his brothers rape trial, a claim that is been investigated by the police Ombusman, doesn't it strike you as odd that he didn't go after the Irish News, The Sunday Life, or the Telegraph when they printed claims by Dolours Price that he was involved in the execution of Jean McConville and others, claiming he couldn't afford the costs to prove those claims were false?
After all, he got RTE to apologise for leaving out the word "Allegedly" in their report, and if you were to have read Gerrys testimony in the link I posted earlier, you can understand how RTE made the simple error.

If they used the word alledged regarding Dolours alledgations he would have had no legal grounds to challenge them. You're logic is backwards. You are using the fact that he didn't challenge alledgations as proof that they are true. Totally twisted logic and if you can't see that then we'll agree to differ.

Now, could you point out to me where I claimed that the allegations are true? I was merely pointing out that he claimed he couldn't afford the costs to challenge the claims carried in 3 newspapers that he was involved in murder, yet he can afford to hire a lawyer who acts for a member of the Royal family?

Gerry has a long history of threatening to sue over different claims about him. I just found it odd he couldn't afford a lawyer, and merely pointed it out. People can make from it what they want, and you are entitled to draw your conclusions, which I respect.

This is the paragraph in whole where he talks about cost:

Mr Adams today described the Ms Price's allegations as "very, very serious" as well as "untrue" and "false". Asked why he did not attempt to sue Ms Price, Mr Adams said: "Because I don't have the money."



Some examples of Gerry threatening to sue newspapers:

The Evening Hearld

The Sinn Fein leader sent a letter to this paper after we published an interview with Ms McKendry in which she said Adams was "in fact dancing on Jean's grave" by running in the same constituency, Louth, where her mother's body was found in 2003.

Adams's solicitors McCartan & Burke claimed the article represented a "serious defamation" of their client who is "considering all legal remedies open to him". Ms McKendry said today she has never personally got a legal letter from the Sinn Fein chief. However, she added: "We did a programme one time and he threatened then to sue, but it came to nothing."

http://www.herald.ie/news/adams-now-threatens-to-sue-us-over-his-ira-past-27973466.html

And when the Sunday Tribune carried the story of his alleged involvement in child abuse coverup, which relates to the story posts 2 pages back,  A Sinn Fein spokesman said:

"The party was considering suing the Sunday Tribune because the "allegations were founded on innuendo and sensationalism and not facts".

He went on: "Gerry Adams and the party refute absolutely any allegation of covering up instances of abuse. Our position on these matters is crystal clear. At all times the welfare of children is paramount...

"If an allegation of sexual abuse is made against a Sinn Fein member the party ensures that the matter is reported to the relevant statutory authorities. The member is suspended from the party without prejudice."

He added: "It is not the job of Sinn Fein to establish guilt or innocence and we will await the outcome of the police investigation."

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/17255/gerry-adams-centre-sinn-fein-child-abuse-row#ixzz32AacVcoa

Still wondering why you're singling out Delours' unsubstantiated allegations over the unsubstantiated allegations from so many countless others with grudges against him.

What other newspapers carried interviews with someone who accuses Gerry with involvement in murder?

Nally, I merely singled out the interview with Dolours Price, her claims, and his refusal to sue her or the papers because "He couldn't afford it"

However Nally, as we seen this week when he hired the top libel lawyer, he had no problem with cost.

And as you have seen, I posted 4 different stories where Gerry and Sinn Fein are straight out of the blocks threatening to sue.

Over the past number of years I have seen how when even the slightest thing is put to George Galloway, his 1st reaction is to threaten to take legal action. Given he has won quite a few high profile cases against the mainstream press, the media walk on egg shells around him.

I wonder how many times Gerry followed through on those threats to take legal action?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 19, 2014, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 12:53:44 AM
Marty boy been a bit economical with the truth.....

http://m.derryjournal.com/news/politics/is-this-standing-up-for-derry-eastwood-asks-mcguinness-1-6066481

To be fair it was a letter sent by one of the depts and Marty signed it and might not have read it. I'm sure he signs loads of letters every day.

Here is a better grip on the topic, and Marty isn't the only one with egg on their face 

http://thepensivequill.am/2014/05/project-kelvin-in-their-own-words.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bigmackers+%28The+Pensive+Quill+-+Anthony+McIntyre%27s+blog%29&utm_content=FaceBook
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on May 19, 2014, 04:12:32 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 18, 2014, 11:46:28 PM
Does anyone else think Glens is very like the Israeli spokesman Mark Regev?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd_js_oQAk
I think that Shinners and Zionists have many similarities in terms of the centrality of the ideology to any discussion of the
issues. What did the sons of Roisin die for? Maybe nothing. Or perhaps a new Debenhams superstore, which may not have been the original desire. 
The contingency of life doesn't get a look in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2014, 04:12:32 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 18, 2014, 11:46:28 PM
Does anyone else think Glens is very like the Israeli spokesman Mark Regev?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd_js_oQAk
I think that Shinners and Zionists have many similarities in terms of the centrality of the ideology to any discussion of the
issues. What did the sons of Roisin die for? Maybe nothing. Or perhaps a new Debenhams superstore, which may not have been the original desire. 
The contingency of life doesn't get a look in.

And they are frequent guests at several "Northern Ireland Friends Of Israel" events

http://nifriendsofisrael.wordpress.com/

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 11:22:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 08:40:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2014, 12:08:51 AM
Mac Coitir Abú

He def has a fighting chance of being elected.

Yo Glens, any chance you can explain what you mean by "The brothers in law"?

Its been a few days now and I am not the only one looking to know?

If you dont want to tell me on here publicly, then send me a pm.

Or if you are brave enough, I can meet you anywhere it suits and you can tell me face to face.

I cant be much fairer than that.

Too busy getting more Shinners elected to be bothered with a you,see you are still posting stories from the liarMcIntyres rag.I know you know who I am talking about but sure you would find it hard to tell the truth.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 05:18:03 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 11:22:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 08:40:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2014, 12:08:51 AM
Mac Coitir Abú

He def has a fighting chance of being elected.

Yo Glens, any chance you can explain what you mean by "The brothers in law"?

Its been a few days now and I am not the only one looking to know?

If you dont want to tell me on here publicly, then send me a pm.

Or if you are brave enough, I can meet you anywhere it suits and you can tell me face to face.

I cant be much fairer than that.

Too busy getting more Shinners elected to be bothered with a you,see you are still posting stories from the liarMcIntyres rag.I know you know who I am talking about but sure you would find it hard to tell the truth.

Ah Glens, I was beginning to think you were ignoring me. After all, you told Nally on Saturday that it was best to ignore compulsive liars like me and my ilk.

Anyhow, I have no idea what or who you are talking about. You obviously know something I don't, and I would like you to clarify it please.


Have you the courage, or will you hide behind the computer and throw more libelous accusations about?

Given that I have met you, and you are a very small man suffering from "Short Mans Syndrome", i'm not afraid to have you tell me face to face if you like.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Short%20Man%27s%20Syndrome

Short Man's Syndrome:

An angry male of below average height who feels it necessary to act out in an attempt to gain respect and recognition from others and compensate for his abnormally short stature.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 05:18:03 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 11:22:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 08:40:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2014, 12:08:51 AM
Mac Coitir Abú

He def has a fighting chance of being elected.

Yo Glens, any chance you can explain what you mean by "The brothers in law"?

Its been a few days now and I am not the only one looking to know?

If you dont want to tell me on here publicly, then send me a pm.

Or if you are brave enough, I can meet you anywhere it suits and you can tell me face to face.

I cant be much fairer than that.

Too busy getting more Shinners elected to be bothered with a you,see you are still posting stories from the liarMcIntyres rag.I know you know who I am talking about but sure you would find it hard to tell the truth.

Ah Glens, I was beginning to think you were ignoring me. After all, you told Nally on Saturday that it was best to ignore compulsive liars like me and my ilk.

Anyhow, I have no idea what or who you are talking about. You obviously know something I don't, and I would like you to clarify it please.


Have you the courage, or will you hide behind the computer and throw more libelous accusations about?

Given that I have met you, and you are a very small man suffering from "Short Mans Syndrome", i'm not afraid to have you tell me face to face if you like.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Short%20Man%27s%20Syndrome

Short Man's Syndrome:

An angry male of below average height who feels it necessary to act out in an attempt to gain respect and recognition from others and compensate for his abnormally short stature.

Don't you worry about my height nowDixie as it doesn't bother me at all and I did try and ignore you but when you keep posting wanting my attention I was forced to reply.You keep saying you don't know who I am referring to so I take you are not as knowledgable about that part of the world as I first thought so you will have to give your lying chum a call and he might help you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaaboardmod3 on May 19, 2014, 05:29:21 PM
OK lads (glens and ghd) this is gone far enough now, and is getting a bit juvenile to be honest. Can ye please cease and desist from deliberately antagonising the other for a while? It's gone beyond a debate now, and is getting more personal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on May 19, 2014, 05:29:21 PM
OK lads (glens and ghd) this is gone far enough now, and is getting a bit juvenile to be honest. Can ye please cease and desist from deliberately antagonising the other for a while? It's gone beyond a debate now, and is getting more personal.

In case you didn't notice, it has been personal for a while. For over 6 months, without reply by myself, I have been accused of having links to various people that i have had no contact with.

Another poster claimed I was tied to Hitler and holocaust denial.

Until today when I got a phone call, I had no idea who "The brothers in law" were. All I can say is that i'm angry beyond words that he would stoop so low as to throw up a reference on 2 occasions to them, and to myself. I have every right to ask him what he meant and how I was related to them in any way.

But I call someone small, and you step in.

Thanks for the support
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 19, 2014, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on May 19, 2014, 05:29:21 PM
OK lads (glens and ghd) this is gone far enough now, and is getting a bit juvenile to be honest. Can ye please cease and desist from deliberately antagonising the other for a while? It's gone beyond a debate now, and is getting more personal.

In case you didn't notice, it has been personal for a while. For over 6 months, without reply by myself, I have been accused of having links to various people that i have had no contact with.

Another poster claimed I was tied to Hitler and holocaust denial.

Until today when I got a phone call, I had no idea who "The brothers in law" were. All I can say is that i'm angry beyond words that he would stoop so low as to throw up a reference on 2 occasions to them, and to myself. I have every right to ask him what he meant and how I was related to them in any way.

But I call someone small, and you step in.

Thanks for the support

Dixie I at no time said you were related to them and thought I cleared that up.when you were attacking Adams and all things Shinner I just was wondering why they were never mentioned as they are from your part of the world.Again if you think I was saying you were related I wasnt and apologise if I gave that impression.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 21, 2014, 10:02:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2014, 04:12:32 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 18, 2014, 11:46:28 PM
Does anyone else think Glens is very like the Israeli spokesman Mark Regev?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd_js_oQAk
I think that Shinners and Zionists have many similarities in terms of the centrality of the ideology to any discussion of the
issues. What did the sons of Roisin die for? Maybe nothing. Or perhaps a new Debenhams superstore, which may not have been the original desire. 
The contingency of life doesn't get a look in.

That is a bunch of bullshit ....

what does " centrality of the ideology to any discussion of the issues"  mean exactly, specifically wrt to some supposed link between Sinn Fein and  the "Zionists" ?

and this

"The contingency of life doesn't get a look in." ?

This horseshit may play well over on hatethejews.com but on this site the bar is a little higher.

Explain yourself ...


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 21, 2014, 10:13:30 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2014, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2014, 04:12:32 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 18, 2014, 11:46:28 PM
Does anyone else think Glens is very like the Israeli spokesman Mark Regev?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd_js_oQAk
I think that Shinners and Zionists have many similarities in terms of the centrality of the ideology to any discussion of the
issues. What did the sons of Roisin die for? Maybe nothing. Or perhaps a new Debenhams superstore, which may not have been the original desire. 
The contingency of life doesn't get a look in.

And they are frequent guests at several "Northern Ireland Friends Of Israel" events

http://nifriendsofisrael.wordpress.com/

What exactly is your problem with two statesmen from opposite sides of a particularly nasty sectarian dispute who have successfully negotiated a way to peace, speaking with somebody who might learn from their difficult path to peace ?

While you are at it you can tell everybody why you frequent the Nazi website www.barnesreview.org

btw..here is their latest title "The Holocaust hoax exposed: Debunking the 20th century's biggest lie"
http://www.barnesreview.org/the-holocaust-hoax-exposed-debunking-the-20th-century’s-biggest-lie-p-552.html?cPath=80_79_46  (http://www.barnesreview.org/the-holocaust-hoax-exposed-debunking-the-20th-century%C3%A2€™s-biggest-lie-p-552.html?cPath=80_79_46)

Now, once again, a question to you and Seafoid, do you accept that the holocaust happened as described by reputable historians ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on May 21, 2014, 10:15:25 PM
If anyone wants to see the exact time when old Seafood and Giver Her Dicks turned on Sinn Fein you should tune in here

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=21322.30;wap2

The lesson is, tow the line with the pair of boys or you are the enemy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 21, 2014, 11:12:30 PM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on May 19, 2014, 05:29:21 PM
OK lads (glens and ghd) this is gone far enough now, and is getting a bit juvenile to be honest. Can ye please cease and desist from deliberately antagonising the other for a while? It's gone beyond a debate now, and is getting more personal.

Mods, can you clarify. If someone posts material from an obvious race hate site , is that post subject to challenge or do we simply accept this kind of thing without comment ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 24, 2014, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on May 19, 2014, 05:29:21 PM
OK lads (glens and ghd) this is gone far enough now, and is getting a bit juvenile to be honest. Can ye please cease and desist from deliberately antagonising the other for a while? It's gone beyond a debate now, and is getting more personal.
At long last. Boring the rest of us too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 24, 2014, 10:44:41 AM
Partition is here to stay. Nationalist vote share is sitting at just over 30% judging by the local council results. Obviously nationalist voters supportive of the union but can't bring themselves to vote for unionist parties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 24, 2014, 11:54:40 AM
SF and SDLP running at about 35% at the moment and that doesn't factor in Anna Lo's vote :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2014, 01:41:49 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 24, 2014, 10:44:41 AM
Partition is here to stay. Nationalist vote share is sitting at just over 30% judging by the local council results. Obviously nationalist voters supportive of the union but can't bring themselves to vote for unionist parties.

I think this suggests that nationalist voters couldn't bring themselves to vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 24, 2014, 01:43:40 PM
something doesn't add up with the number of seats being distributed between the parties. Hardly 1% of a difference between SF and DUP in votes cast, but nearly 30 seats difference between them. How does that work?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 24, 2014, 02:01:19 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 24, 2014, 01:43:40 PM
something doesn't add up with the number of seats being distributed between the parties. Hardly 1% of a difference between SF and DUP in votes cast, but nearly 30 seats difference between them. How does that work?

Yeah noticed that. SF actually have more FPs at the moment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2014, 02:42:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 24, 2014, 01:43:40 PM
something doesn't add up with the number of seats being distributed between the parties. Hardly 1% of a difference between SF and DUP in votes cast, but nearly 30 seats difference between them. How does that work?

Do all the seats have the same quote? Turnout can vary across regions also.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 24, 2014, 02:48:10 PM
at the moment, Ulster Unionists have 40,000 odd votes fewer than SF, but have two more seats. SF also have more votes than DUP, but considerably fewer seats. Just saying, like. ???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on May 24, 2014, 02:52:22 PM
Must be gerrymandering at work again :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 24, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 24, 2014, 02:48:10 PM
at the moment, Ulster Unionists have 40,000 odd votes fewer than SF, but have two more seats. SF also have more votes than DUP, but considerably fewer seats. Just saying, like. ???
Unionists will transfer to each other no matter how they perceive the DUP, PUP etc... As will most republicans to the SDLP. Many SDLP voters would rather transfer to Alliance or unionists. IMO
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 24, 2014, 06:05:53 PM
like a room without a roof... ;) :D :D :D 8) 8)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 24, 2014, 06:22:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 24, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 24, 2014, 02:48:10 PM
at the moment, Ulster Unionists have 40,000 odd votes fewer than SF, but have two more seats. SF also have more votes than DUP, but considerably fewer seats. Just saying, like. ???
Unionists will transfer to each other no matter how they perceive the DUP, PUP etc... As will most republicans to the SDLP. Many SDLP voters would rather transfer to Alliance or unionists. IMO

Not true

@MickFealty Fascinating that @GerryAdamsSF has only now admitted SF have been campaigning actively against a second nationalist seat in the #EP2014?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 24, 2014, 06:26:17 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 24, 2014, 06:22:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 24, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 24, 2014, 02:48:10 PM
at the moment, Ulster Unionists have 40,000 odd votes fewer than SF, but have two more seats. SF also have more votes than DUP, but considerably fewer seats. Just saying, like. ???
Unionists will transfer to each other no matter how they perceive the DUP, PUP etc... As will most republicans to the SDLP. Many SDLP voters would rather transfer to Alliance or unionists. IMO

Not true

@MickFealty Fascinating that @GerryAdamsSF has only now admitted SF have been campaigning actively against a second nationalist seat in the #EP2014?
We'll if that's true both nationalist parties are a disgrace. We could learn a bit form unionists. #unity
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 24, 2014, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 24, 2014, 06:26:17 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 24, 2014, 06:22:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 24, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 24, 2014, 02:48:10 PM
at the moment, Ulster Unionists have 40,000 odd votes fewer than SF, but have two more seats. SF also have more votes than DUP, but considerably fewer seats. Just saying, like. ???
Unionists will transfer to each other no matter how they perceive the DUP, PUP etc... As will most republicans to the SDLP. Many SDLP voters would rather transfer to Alliance or unionists. IMO

Not true

@MickFealty Fascinating that @GerryAdamsSF has only now admitted SF have been campaigning actively against a second nationalist seat in the #EP2014?
We'll if that's true both nationalist parties are a disgrace. We could learn a bit form unionists. #unity

Worst combined SF/SDLP % vote since IRA ceasfire.

Probably be branded an enemy of peace or a dissident for posting the above stat.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 24, 2014, 09:46:14 PM
SF have 1 elected councillor in Mayo. Poised to take 2 more, with a very outside chance of a seat in the Ballina area.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 25, 2014, 05:33:20 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 24, 2014, 02:48:10 PM
at the moment, Ulster Unionists have 40,000 odd votes fewer than SF, but have two more seats. SF also have more votes than DUP, but considerably fewer seats. Just saying, like. ???
I'm sure a good unionist like yourself has wet his butchers apron underpants in joy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 25, 2014, 09:17:10 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.
Like I said Myles ... Top drawer political analysis!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 09:58:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2014, 09:17:10 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.
Like I said Myles ... Top drawer political analysis!!
The Shinners will do okay in the south, but given the circumstances that have prevailed there over the past few years, that's no huge achievement. The number of independents picking up seats in that jurisdiction illustrates the level of disillusionment with the mainstream parties. Their vote in the north has held up, no better than that. SF got the biggest share of the vote and I've no doubt that they will repeat that achievement in Stormont elections sooner or later. But so what? Marty and Peter get to swap job titles? The SF 'project' is about achieving a united Ireland and on that score they seem to be doing less well. The unionist vote seems as strong as ever and it's a percentage of these people that SF have to win over if unity is to be achieved. There's no sign of that shift happening and Marty's melt down a few weeks ago won't have helped. It certainly dissuaded this light green nationalist from voting SF this time around, so I'd imagine the effect on unionists was even more marked. How many years has it set the SF project back? I'll stick with about 20 but I'm open to a spot of haggling.  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 25, 2014, 10:06:17 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 09:58:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2014, 09:17:10 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.
Like I said Myles ... Top drawer political analysis!!
The Shinners will do okay in the south, but given the circumstances that have prevailed there over the past few years, that's no huge achievement. The number of independents picking up seats in that jurisdiction illustrates the level of disillusionment with the mainstream parties. Their vote in the north has held up, no better than that. SF got the biggest share of the vote and I've no doubt that they will repeat that achievement in Stormont elections sooner or later. But so what? Marty and Peter get to swap job titles? The SF 'project' is about achieving a united Ireland and on that score they seem to be doing less well. The unionist vote seems as strong as ever and it's a percentage of these people that SF have to win over if unity is to be achieved. There's no sign of that shift happening and Marty's melt down a few weeks ago won't have helped. It certainly dissuaded this light green nationalist from voting SF this time around, so I'd imagine the effect on unionists was even more marked. How many years has it set the SF project back? I'll stick with about 20 but I'm open to a spot of haggling.  ;)
Ah so you defended your prediction last week following the polls by pointing to margins if error etc but today, suddenly,  you pretend you event taking about the election at all?! Spoofer!!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2014, 10:06:17 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 09:58:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2014, 09:17:10 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 09, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Nail on the head there. The Shinners missed a huge chance - they only had to shut the fcuk up for 3 or 4 days and wait until their leader was released and their journey from the political wilderness to mainstream political party would've been complete. Instead, Marty threw a tantrum and set them back about 20 years.
Like I said Myles ... Top drawer political analysis!!
The Shinners will do okay in the south, but given the circumstances that have prevailed there over the past few years, that's no huge achievement. The number of independents picking up seats in that jurisdiction illustrates the level of disillusionment with the mainstream parties. Their vote in the north has held up, no better than that. SF got the biggest share of the vote and I've no doubt that they will repeat that achievement in Stormont elections sooner or later. But so what? Marty and Peter get to swap job titles? The SF 'project' is about achieving a united Ireland and on that score they seem to be doing less well. The unionist vote seems as strong as ever and it's a percentage of these people that SF have to win over if unity is to be achieved. There's no sign of that shift happening and Marty's melt down a few weeks ago won't have helped. It certainly dissuaded this light green nationalist from voting SF this time around, so I'd imagine the effect on unionists was even more marked. How many years has it set the SF project back? I'll stick with about 20 but I'm open to a spot of haggling.  ;)
Ah so you defended your prediction last week following the polls by pointing to margins if error etc but today, suddenly,  you pretend you event taking about the election at all?! Spoofer!!!!!  ;D
'The 2nd of those polls has 'don't knows' running at 25%, so I wouldn't get too carried away just yet. Both polls seem to have a 26 county focus too. Let's face it, if SF can't improve their vote in a state which has been living with austerity budgets for several years, there's something wrong. Let's see how they do in the north. I still think that Marty, Mary lou and Bobby Storey have between them scuppered their party's chances of increasing their vote up here.'
They didn't increase their vote up in the north, did they?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
Middle class nationalists are still voting SDLP and / or Alliance. It's reasonable to assume that SDLP voters would vote for reunification in any border poll, but what about those from the Catholic community who choose to vote Alliance? Are they that exercised by the constitutional issue? Also, some of the NI21 people were from traditional nationalist backgrounds (McKenzie, I think, and Neeson, for example). These are people putting themselves forward for election in a unionist party. It shows, I think, that there is a percentage of the Catholic/ nationalist/ republican community which is content with the union. If the nationalist parties can't convince these people on the benefits of a 32 county Ireland, what chance do they have of convincing those from a unionist background?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 25, 2014, 11:58:46 AM
A couple of points Myles. I take your point but McKenzie got 256 votes and Neeson got 74. A lot of middle class Taigs/Nats are content with the status quo over change. They're not particularly British and would have little allegiance to flags or anthems, but a UI is an unknown for them and when the choice is between the known and the unknown there will only be one winner.

SF need to spend the next 3-5 years working out how a UI would work and what it would look like and then put that to that to all Nats in NI. Key big big questions over health, education, the economy, etc etc need to be answered before we can even start to debate this. The worst thing they can do is to put Alex Maskey on the telly when it's clear he doesn't have much of a clue how to answer these questions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on May 25, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
Middle class nationalists are still voting SDLP and / or Alliance. It's reasonable to assume that SDLP voters would vote for reunification in any border poll, but what about those from the Catholic community who choose to vote Alliance? Are they that exercised by the constitutional issue? Also, some of the NI21 people were from traditional nationalist backgrounds (McKenzie, I think, and Neeson, for example). These are people putting themselves forward for election in a unionist party. It shows, I think, that there is a percentage of the Catholic/ nationalist/ republican community which is content with the union. If the nationalist parties can't convince these people on the benefits of a 32 county Ireland, what chance do they have of convincing those from a unionist background?

I'm not so sure i'd agree. There still exists some apathy towards sf from some members of the nationalist community - i think anyway. Sdlp offer little or nothing. I would say more , a lot more, catholics didn't turn out to vote. That doesn't mean pro union.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2014, 12:46:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 25, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
Middle class nationalists are still voting SDLP and / or Alliance. It's reasonable to assume that SDLP voters would vote for reunification in any border poll, but what about those from the Catholic community who choose to vote Alliance? Are they that exercised by the constitutional issue? Also, some of the NI21 people were from traditional nationalist backgrounds (McKenzie, I think, and Neeson, for example). These are people putting themselves forward for election in a unionist party. It shows, I think, that there is a percentage of the Catholic/ nationalist/ republican community which is content with the union. If the nationalist parties can't convince these people on the benefits of a 32 county Ireland, what chance do they have of convincing those from a unionist background?

I'm not so sure i'd agree. There still exists some apathy towards sf from some members of the nationalist community - i think anyway. Sdlp offer little or nothing. I would say more , a lot more, catholics didn't turn out to vote. That doesn't mean pro union.
Spot on. For me, I wouldn't vote for SF and the currently rudderless SDLP isn't an attractive option. I'm not going to vote for any of the others.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2014, 11:58:46 AM
A couple of points Myles. I take your point but McKenzie got 256 votes and Neeson got 74. A lot of middle class Taigs/Nats are content with the status quo over change. They're not particularly British and would have little allegiance to flags or anthems, but a UI is an unknown for them and when the choice is between the known and the unknown there will only be one winner.

SF need to spend the next 3-5 years working out how a UI would work and what it would look like and then put that to that to all Nats in NI. Key big big questions over health, education, the economy, etc etc need to be answered before we can even start to debate this. The worst thing they can do is to put Alex Maskey on the telly when it's clear he doesn't have much of a clue how to answer these questions.
Nothing there that I'd argue with. I think SF needs to develop a strategy for a UI. They say they have one, but they don't. What they have really is a strategy to make themselves the biggest single party in the north and perhaps a coalition partner in the south. Neither of those things, even if achieved, will do anything to change the constitutional position of the north. That will only start to happen when there are indications that a majority of people up here are prepared to give serious consideration to the idea of a UI. The election results show that we're a million miles from that. The first step on the road to unity lies with SF itself. As the biggest, loudest advocates of a UI on the island, they are inextricably linked in people's minds with the whole concept. When people reject a UI, quite often what they're doing is rejecting SF and their conceptions of what that party stands for. SF needs to give itself a complete makeover. It needs to distance itself from the conflict and position itself as a mainstream party concerned with mainstream issues - like you say, health, education, the economy, etc. It needs to replace all those with conflict baggage with new faces. The best thing Adams could do for the party now is to retire, likewise Marty, Gerry Kelly, and the rest. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have any role in the party, but if SF ever wants to make the breakthrough and appeal to voters outside its traditional base, it needs to stop reminding people of the party's links with the IRA. The 'armed struggle' wasn't a popular campaign in mainstream, nationalist Ireland and it certainly wasn't popular with unionists, so continually reminding people of it isn't a vote winner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 25, 2014, 02:14:29 PM
Bright eyed freedom stsnds afore yee..
Hear yee not her call?

Roll on the dungout.. :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on May 25, 2014, 02:23:56 PM
Here we go thousands of questions about sinn fein policy from guys too lazy to read sinn fein manifesto in fact too lazy to read any manifesto. but they expect sinn fein supporters to rime policy off in detail and answer their questions and be cross examined as if we had to persuade them to change their voting habits always without actually admitting who they do vote for..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on May 25, 2014, 05:26:00 PM
Seems to be a similar pattern in the 26co elections, a lot of early wins but not much coming there way from the transfers so far.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 25, 2014, 06:27:04 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2014, 12:46:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 25, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
I'm not so sure i'd agree. There still exists some apathy towards sf from some members of the nationalist community - i think anyway. Sdlp offer little or nothing. I would say more , a lot more, catholics didn't turn out to vote. That doesn't mean pro union.
Spot on. For me, I wouldn't vote for SF and the currently rudderless SDLP isn't an attractive option. I'm not going to vote for any of the others.

Really? For someone who's so avowedly democracy-apathetic, one might expect, perhaps, that you could distinguish between 'apathy' and 'antipathy' before issuing such resounding endorsements; no offence imtommygunn, we're all prone to them, but when some eejits endorse same, it really does beg to be remarked upon! ;)  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2014, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 25, 2014, 06:27:04 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2014, 12:46:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 25, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
I'm not so sure i'd agree. There still exists some apathy towards sf from some members of the nationalist community - i think anyway. Sdlp offer little or nothing. I would say more , a lot more, catholics didn't turn out to vote. That doesn't mean pro union.
Spot on. For me, I wouldn't vote for SF and the currently rudderless SDLP isn't an attractive option. I'm not going to vote for any of the others.

Really? For someone who's so avowedly democracy-apathetic, one might expect, perhaps, that you could distinguish between 'apathy' and 'antipathy' before issuing such resounding endorsements; no offence imtommygunn, we're all prone to them, but when some eejits endorse same, it really does beg to be remarked upon! ;)  :P
Another beautifully constructed piece of text that begs to be ignored! Men fought and died to allow me to decide whether or not to be bothered to cast my vote  :)

Like a lot of people, I work 50+ hours a week and have a wife and children (3 off - one with a profound disability) to deal with love and cherish, so you'll forgive me if I don't spend my spare time hanging on every word of our wonderful elected representatives.  ;) That is not to say that my lack of input, whether through antipathy or apathy, into the democratic process will prevent me from sticking the boot in as I see fit!  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 25, 2014, 08:59:15 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
The best thing Adams could do for the party now is to retire

Indeed. The party only recorded it's greatest elections result since 1918 and has trebled it's number of local council seats in the 26 counties. Adams must go!!
(http://stuckonemojis.com/assets/images/Smiley/Tears-of-Joy-Laughing-Emoji.png)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on May 25, 2014, 09:01:11 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 25, 2014, 06:27:04 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2014, 12:46:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 25, 2014, 12:05:18 PM
I'm not so sure i'd agree. There still exists some apathy towards sf from some members of the nationalist community - i think anyway. Sdlp offer little or nothing. I would say more , a lot more, catholics didn't turn out to vote. That doesn't mean pro union.
Spot on. For me, I wouldn't vote for SF and the currently rudderless SDLP isn't an attractive option. I'm not going to vote for any of the others.

Really? For someone who's so avowedly democracy-apathetic, one might expect, perhaps, that you could distinguish between 'apathy' and 'antipathy' before issuing such resounding endorsements; no offence imtommygunn, we're all prone to them, but when some eejits endorse same, it really does beg to be remarked upon! ;)  :P

Lol. There exists apathy and antipathy! Each present their own problem.

Had hoped more voters would come out given the vileness and bigotry of several parties since flag debacle so we could see less of them. Unfortunately seems not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: hairyUlsterman on May 25, 2014, 09:46:28 PM
I voted for Sinn Fein this year, I don't even believe in the re-unification of Ireland but had to get as far away from Loyalism as possible.
I believe in an independent Northern Ireland so i do.

I wouldn't have bothered voting at all but a few weeks ago when I was driving past Antrim police station I saw all the loyalist thugs with their massive union fleg and their scarfs covering their bigoted little faces, made my blood boil.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 26, 2014, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2014, 08:59:15 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
The best thing Adams could do for the party now is to retire

Indeed. The party only recorded it's greatest elections result since 1918 and has trebled it's number of local council seats in the 26 counties. Adams must go!!
(http://stuckonemojis.com/assets/images/Smiley/Tears-of-Joy-Laughing-Emoji.png)
You think that was a great election result for SF? You're kidding yourself, seriously. Take a look across the water at the UKIP performance if you need a comparator - and it's obvious you do. SF took 15% of the vote in the south. An improvement, certainly, but given the times we live in, not great and no huge surprise. If you can't win seats when your competition has run the country into the ground and crucified the people with tax rises, you're in trouble. SF have picked up votes and seats, but it seems that the 26 county electorate still prefers by some margin to vote for the parties that bankrupt them. Those who couldn't bring themselves to do so, have opted for independent or 'other' candidates, who took 28% of the vote. Makes SF's 15% look a bit miserable, don't you think? In the north, SF's has actually slipped slightly. The SDLP dropped nearly 3%, but it seems these votes haven't crossed over to SF. Again, at a time when it's main competition is in serious trouble, SF appears unable to capitalise. But keep telling yourself that you've had a great election if it makes you feel better.   ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 09:28:22 AM
Myles, you can spin it whatever way you like, but Sinn Fein has had a great election in the South, along with independents and Fianna Fail to a lesser extent. The reasons why that might be the case are myriad, obviously including disillusionment with FG/FF and Lab. But I don't think there's any question that Sinn Fein are now the biggest 'Left' party in the south, and probably have a decent shot of being involved in government after the next GE. (No pun intended!)

Unless Labour do a complete volte face, including leaving the government in a master PR move somehow, they will be the next election's Green party. And those Labour votes have to go somewhere.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on May 26, 2014, 09:40:56 AM
Giving the disdain that FF, FG and Lab are currently held in, 15% is no great shakes.

Of course its a big improvement on previous elections. Previously people couldnt vote for Sinn Fein because of the strong links to terrorism. That's fading now, but it'll take Adams to go for people just to look forward and not back.

But economic policy is probably a bigger factor. The "tax the wealthy" motto will only work with the few people who don't understand it.  Most people realise that creating sustainable employment is key in trying to bring about the recovery and that it would be completely nonsensical to put a bigger tax burden on companies, entrepenuers and employers as it would just increase unemployment and keep us mired in the hole we are in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 26, 2014, 09:58:58 AM
SF's 15% can't surely be dismissed as a protest vote. SF are here to stay north and south.

What party is going to court them in the south to form a government ?. Many said they'd never join forces but never is a very long time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 10:20:23 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 26, 2014, 09:40:56 AM
Giving the disdain that FF, FG and Lab are currently held in, 15% is no great shakes.

Of course its a big improvement on previous elections. Previously people couldnt vote for Sinn Fein because of the strong links to terrorism. That's fading now, but it'll take Adams to go for people just to look forward and not back.

But economic policy is probably a bigger factor. The "tax the wealthy" motto will only work with the few people who don't understand it.  Most people realise that creating sustainable employment is key in trying to bring about the recovery and that it would be completely nonsensical to put a bigger tax burden on companies, entrepenuers and employers as it would just increase unemployment and keep us mired in the hole we are in.

Tax the wealthy is a perfectly valid, socialist, position. It may not be one you or I like (define wealthy),  but that sort of position will be strong with people who feel they are being rode by the 'rich'. Taxing the wealthy and using that money to fund social services would be a reasonably strong position to take, and I'm not sure that 'most' people realist that capitalism (as you've defined it above) is the best way forward. It may be a disaster in the long term, but as a message it's pretty potent to a sizeable electorate. Sinn Fein are known for working hard on the ground, and that coupled with a strong sense of identification with the traditional socialist voters will make them a sustained force in politics. Of course if they go into government and do a Labour on it, they'll be dead.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mayo4Sam on May 26, 2014, 10:48:36 AM
If they go into government they might realise that the wealthy wont always wait around if they are being taxed to the hilt and that you have to make ends meet, no water tax, no property tax, wheres the money going to come from?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 26, 2014, 10:50:29 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 26, 2014, 09:58:58 AM
SF's 15% can't surely be dismissed as a protest vote. SF are here to stay north and south.

What party is going to court them in the south to form a government ?. Many said they'd never join forces but never is a very long time.
15% is a mediocre return given that 28% of those who voted chose to go for independents or other smaller parties. The fact that these people - presumably former FF, FG and Labour supporters - couldn't bring themselves to vote SF, shows the party is still considered toxic by many people. The fact that the leader of SF is still linked in people's minds to the IRA must be a factor. The fact that his deputy threatened to withdraw support for the legitimate police service of the northern state, and was backed by Mary Lou,  is probably another factor. The fact that the party still allows ex IRA men like Bobby 'we haven't gone away you know' Storey to speak on SF platforms is yet one other thing stopping people voting SF. And remember, the south isn't the problem for SF. It's the north where the party has to win hearts and minds if it's going to bring about change. Up here, it's vote has stalled, disaffected SDLP supporters are choosing to vote Alliance rather than SF, while unionism has just produced its strongest election results in years. If this is what SF voters are hailing as its best performance in nearly a century, then they're easily pleased.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 26, 2014, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 25, 2014, 08:59:15 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 25, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
The best thing Adams could do for the party now is to retire

Indeed. The party only recorded it's greatest elections result since 1918 and has trebled it's number of local council seats in the 26 counties. Adams must go!
The only relevant question is whether someone else could have done even better and taken more of those independent votes. Now is the perfect time for opposition parties in the south, so you'd have to expect serious progress at this time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 26, 2014, 10:50:29 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 26, 2014, 09:58:58 AM
SF's 15% can't surely be dismissed as a protest vote. SF are here to stay north and south.

What party is going to court them in the south to form a government ?. Many said they'd never join forces but never is a very long time.
15% is a mediocre return given that 28% of those who voted chose to go for independents or other smaller parties. The fact that these people - presumably former FF, FG and Labour supporters - couldn't bring themselves to vote SF, shows the party is still considered toxic by many people. The fact that the leader of SF is still linked in people's minds to the IRA must be a factor. The fact that his deputy threatened to withdraw support for the legitimate police service of the northern state, and was backed by Mary Lou,  is probably another factor. The fact that the party still allows ex IRA men like Bobby 'we haven't gone away you know' Storey to speak on SF platforms is yet one other thing stopping people voting SF. And remember, the south isn't the problem for SF. It's the north where the party has to win hearts and minds if it's going to bring about change. Up here, it's vote has stalled, disaffected SDLP supporters are choosing to vote Alliance rather than SF, while unionism has just produced its strongest election results in years. If this is what SF voters are hailing as its best performance in nearly a century, then they're easily pleased.

I don't think Independents will get 28% of the vote in a GE. In Nenagh electoral area, the poll was topped by an independent, and if it was a General Election, I just can't see that happening. The big question is whether Sinn Fein can be seen as the closest big part to the independent manifestos, and if they can be seen as that, will they attract votes? They are still fairly bad at picking up transfers, unless it's from Socialist Party or Labour Candidates. The problem with predicting that for a GE is that in the locals, the Sinn Fein candidates got elected so quickly that it's hard to know where they would have got transfers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 11:12:28 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on May 26, 2014, 10:48:36 AM
If they go into government they might realise that the wealthy wont always wait around if they are being taxed to the hilt and that you have to make ends meet, no water tax, no property tax, wheres the money going to come from?

Absolutely. That's my problem with Sinn Fein (and other socialist parties). Raising Taxes to pay more money to inefficient, money leaking social services is what we used to call throwing good money after bad.

Billions of Euro have been thrown at the health service, for example, but are we getting value for money? If we are not, the answer is not to raise more money from direct taxation of certain people, it's to do a root and branch overhaul of the service. Unfortunately the socialist parties are close in their outlook to the labour unions, so any overhaul is likely to be met with resistance from the unions, as the default setting, which means I think parties like Sinn Fein (and LAbour) would back off from that.

I heard Pearse Doherty on radio yesterday morning, and I thought he was actually quite poor. He spoke about removing these stealth (not so stealthy) taxes and increasing the tax burden on those who earn over 100,000. But the sums didn't add up. He said it would negate the water charge. Pat Rabbitte said it wouldn't. He (Doherty) said that would reap 350 million p.a.. Pat Rabbitte, who was fighing a rearguard action, said that that was correct, but the water tax needs to bring in 500m.

That's a pretty big hole, and Doherty wasn't able to explain how it would be filled. 'Other measures' was his response.

That's the sort of stuff that would worry me about Sinn Fein. It's easy to say we'd abandon this, that and the other, but how do you propose to provide the services needed? Piling more tax on is a poor way of going about it.

Also, Doherty said that Sinn Fein had costed measures, but Pat Rabbitte made the good (I thought) point that they keep saying this, but have never costed an entire Budget.. That's fairly relevant and again Pearse couldn't really address it well.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nally Stand on May 26, 2014, 11:16:22 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 26, 2014, 09:04:12 AM
You think that was a great election result for SF? You're kidding yourself, seriously.
You're right. Everyone else is wrong.  ;) Forgive me for not taking your analysis seriously when your pre-election prediction was a "20 year" setback for SF. Opps!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on May 26, 2014, 11:17:49 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 10:20:23 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 26, 2014, 09:40:56 AM
Giving the disdain that FF, FG and Lab are currently held in, 15% is no great shakes.

Of course its a big improvement on previous elections. Previously people couldnt vote for Sinn Fein because of the strong links to terrorism. That's fading now, but it'll take Adams to go for people just to look forward and not back.

But economic policy is probably a bigger factor. The "tax the wealthy" motto will only work with the few people who don't understand it.  Most people realise that creating sustainable employment is key in trying to bring about the recovery and that it would be completely nonsensical to put a bigger tax burden on companies, entrepenuers and employers as it would just increase unemployment and keep us mired in the hole we are in.

Tax the wealthy is a perfectly valid, socialist, position. It may not be one you or I like (define wealthy),  but that sort of position will be strong with people who feel they are being rode by the 'rich'. Taxing the wealthy and using that money to fund social services would be a reasonably strong position to take, and I'm not sure that 'most' people realist that capitalism (as you've defined it above) is the best way forward. It may be a disaster in the long term, but as a message it's pretty potent to a sizeable electorate. Sinn Fein are known for working hard on the ground, and that coupled with a strong sense of identification with the traditional socialist voters will make them a sustained force in politics. Of course if they go into government and do a Labour on it, they'll be dead.
I'm not saying "tax the wealthy" isnt a valid concept, I'm just wondering why SF havent got a bigger slice of the vote given how low FF, FG and Lab are at the moment, and the two reasons I came up with are the SF-IRA history and people seeing through their economic policy.

We already tax the wealthy higher than most countries and I don't believe there is a more progressive income tax system to be found anywhere else (i.e. the high earners contribute a lot more proportionately than other countries). Increasing corporate tax rates would be economic suicide, and I think a lot of people realise this and this has to impact negatively on SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 26, 2014, 11:21:43 AM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2014, 11:58:46 AM
A couple of points Myles. I take your point but McKenzie got 256 votes and Neeson got 74. A lot of middle class Taigs/Nats are content with the status quo over change. They're not particularly British and would have little allegiance to flags or anthems, but a UI is an unknown for them and when the choice is between the known and the unknown there will only be one winner.

SF need to spend the next 3-5 years working out how a UI would work and what it would look like and then put that to that to all Nats in NI. Key big big questions over health, education, the economy, etc etc need to be answered before we can even start to debate this. The worst thing they can do is to put Alex Maskey on the telly when it's clear he doesn't have much of a clue how to answer these questions.
100% correct.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 26, 2014, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 11:12:28 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on May 26, 2014, 10:48:36 AM
If they go into government they might realise that the wealthy wont always wait around if they are being taxed to the hilt and that you have to make ends meet, no water tax, no property tax, wheres the money going to come from?

Absolutely. That's my problem with Sinn Fein (and other socialist parties). Raising Taxes to pay more money to inefficient, money leaking social services is what we used to call throwing good money after bad.

Billions of Euro have been thrown at the health service, for example, but are we getting value for money? If we are not, the answer is not to raise more money from direct taxation of certain people, it's to do a root and branch overhaul of the service. Unfortunately the socialist parties are close in their outlook to the labour unions, so any overhaul is likely to be met with resistance from the unions, as the default setting, which means I think parties like Sinn Fein (and LAbour) would back off from that.

I heard Pearse Doherty on radio yesterday morning, and I thought he was actually quite poor. He spoke about removing these stealth (not so stealthy) taxes and increasing the tax burden on those who earn over 100,000. But the sums didn't add up. He said it would negate the water charge. Pat Rabbitte said it wouldn't. He (Doherty) said that would reap 350 million p.a.. Pat Rabbitte, who was fighing a rearguard action, said that that was correct, but the water tax needs to bring in 500m.

That's a pretty big hole, and Doherty wasn't able to explain how it would be filled. 'Other measures' was his response.

That's the sort of stuff that would worry me about Sinn Fein. It's easy to say we'd abandon this, that and the other, but how do you propose to provide the services needed? Piling more tax on is a poor way of going about it.

Also, Doherty said that Sinn Fein had costed measures, but Pat Rabbitte made the good (I thought) point that they keep saying this, but have never costed an entire Budget.. That's fairly relevant and again Pearse couldn't really address it well.
So if the wealth tax doesn't even cover water, what covers the household charge? These 'other measures' must be massive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 26, 2014, 11:28:57 AM
Nally/glens I posed a serious question to which I'd be interested in your response please.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 11:34:34 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 26, 2014, 11:17:49 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 10:20:23 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 26, 2014, 09:40:56 AM
Giving the disdain that FF, FG and Lab are currently held in, 15% is no great shakes.

Of course its a big improvement on previous elections. Previously people couldnt vote for Sinn Fein because of the strong links to terrorism. That's fading now, but it'll take Adams to go for people just to look forward and not back.

But economic policy is probably a bigger factor. The "tax the wealthy" motto will only work with the few people who don't understand it.  Most people realise that creating sustainable employment is key in trying to bring about the recovery and that it would be completely nonsensical to put a bigger tax burden on companies, entrepenuers and employers as it would just increase unemployment and keep us mired in the hole we are in.

Tax the wealthy is a perfectly valid, socialist, position. It may not be one you or I like (define wealthy),  but that sort of position will be strong with people who feel they are being rode by the 'rich'. Taxing the wealthy and using that money to fund social services would be a reasonably strong position to take, and I'm not sure that 'most' people realist that capitalism (as you've defined it above) is the best way forward. It may be a disaster in the long term, but as a message it's pretty potent to a sizeable electorate. Sinn Fein are known for working hard on the ground, and that coupled with a strong sense of identification with the traditional socialist voters will make them a sustained force in politics. Of course if they go into government and do a Labour on it, they'll be dead.
I'm not saying "tax the wealthy" isnt a valid concept, I'm just wondering why SF havent got a bigger slice of the vote given how low FF, FG and Lab are at the moment, and the two reasons I came up with are the SF-IRA history and people seeing through their economic policy.

We already tax the wealthy higher than most countries and I don't believe there is a more progressive income tax system to be found anywhere else (i.e. the high earners contribute a lot more proportionately than other countries). Increasing corporate tax rates would be economic suicide, and I think a lot of people realise this and this has to impact negatively on SF.

I think another reason is that local elections are usually fertile for independents, and in the current climate even more so. The question would be, in a GE where you will have less candidates, and probably less viable independents, will SF pick up a lot of those votes? I suspect if it happened tomorrow, they might.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on May 26, 2014, 11:53:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 11:34:34 AM
I think another reason is that local elections are usually fertile for independents, and in the current climate even more so. The question would be, in a GE where you will have less candidates, and probably less viable independents, will SF pick up a lot of those votes? I suspect if it happened tomorrow, they might.
Yip, maybe. Although I think Labour are a completely different case to the Greens and will bounce back to 12-15% for the GC (by getting some of that Independent vote back).
The task for SF is to get more viable candidates. Poaching some discontented Labourites might be a good idea.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 12:15:36 PM
I expect SF to court Labour Candidates, and Labour voters even more now. I don't think Labour can bounce back without major, major changes in direction in government. Gilmore will have to go. Will Joan Burton be the leader? Pat Rabbitte (whom I have good time for), Ruari Quinn and Howling mad will also probably have to be sacrificed unless there is a massive row back on things like Water Charges, and there's a giveaway budget. I can't see how that can possibly happen, so I think Labour might be in for a scutching.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 26, 2014, 09:16:28 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 26, 2014, 12:15:36 PM
I expect SF to court Labour Candidates, and Labour voters even more now. I don't think Labour can bounce back without major, major changes in direction in government. Gilmore will have to go. Will Joan Burton be the leader? Pat Rabbitte (whom I have good time for), Ruari Quinn and Howling mad will also probably have to be sacrificed unless there is a massive row back on things like Water Charges, and there's a giveaway budget. I can't see how that can possibly happen, so I think Labour might be in for a scutching.

Labour have to get rid of Rabbitte, quinn and Gilmore from their front benches - retire them like FG did with Fitzgerald to be "wise old men" to refer back to when needed. Otherwise they will get wiped in the next election without a new look. Burton would be an early favourite though.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on May 26, 2014, 10:56:28 PM
All-Ireland Euro Election Results May 2014

Sinn Fein 483,113 - (21.2%)
Fianna Fail 369,545 - (16.2%)
Fine Gael 369,120 - (16.2%)
Independents 328,766 - (14.4%)
DUP 131,163 - (5.7%)
Green Party 92,056 - (4.0%)
Labour 88,229 - (3.9%)
Ulster Unionists 83,438 (3.7%)
SDLP 81,594 (3.6%)
TUV 75,806 (3.3%)
Alliance Party NI 44,432 (1.9%)
Socialist Party 29,953 (1.3%)
UKIP 24,584 (1.1%)
DDI 24,093 (1.1%)
PBP 23,875 (1.0%)
Catholic Dems 13,569 (0.6%)
NI21 10,553 (0.5%)
Fis Nua 4,610 (0.2%)
Conservatives 4,144 (0.2%)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 26, 2014, 11:11:16 PM
Jaysus...that's some amount of parties on a small island like ours!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on May 26, 2014, 11:18:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 26, 2014, 11:11:16 PM
Jaysus...that's some amount of parties on a small island like ours!

Only two of them stood in all 4 constituencies.  The Green Party is the other one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2014, 11:20:33 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 26, 2014, 11:11:16 PM
Jaysus...that's some amount of parties on a small island like ours!

Great people for parties, we are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 26, 2014, 11:33:44 PM
I'd prefer that lost displayed in 3 columns - Usuns, Themmuns and Other.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
The above is not unrelated to my post about lack of ynity in nationalism in another thread. As Glens and Nally on the SF side are unwilling or unable to give an answer can anyone from the SDLP?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
The above is not unrelated to my post about lack of ynity in nationalism in another thread. As Glens and Nally on the SF side are unwilling or unable to give an answer can anyone from the SDLP?

ffs Apples do you think the world revolves around you.I am only back after working on election for 4 days so never seen your post.Yes SF still have a problem getting transfers from other parties so therefore big 1st preference doesn't always mean we can get a seat.If you take Newtownabbey for example in Glengormley we had about 1.4 qoutas but dont get tranfers so can only get the one elected. We always ask on the door for to be considered for 2nd or 3rd preference and I do believe that is happening but very slowly. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
The above is not unrelated to my post about lack of ynity in nationalism in another thread. As Glens and Nally on the SF side are unwilling or unable to give an answer can anyone from the SDLP?

ffs Apples do you think the world revolves around you.I am only back after working on election for 4 days so never seen your post.Yes SF still have a problem getting transfers from other parties so therefore big 1st preference doesn't always mean we can get a seat.If you take Newtownabbey for example in Glengormley we had about 1.4 qoutas but dont get tranfers so can only get the one elected. We always ask on the door for to be considered for 2nd or 3rd preference and I do believe that is happening but very slowly.
LOL, does the world not revolve around me? What about working with the stoops and getting some nationalist unity, a big job I know given that you have to try and work around the big egos and small iq of big Dolly and big Al.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
The above is not unrelated to my post about lack of ynity in nationalism in another thread. As Glens and Nally on the SF side are unwilling or unable to give an answer can anyone from the SDLP?

ffs Apples do you think the world revolves around you.I am only back after working on election for 4 days so never seen your post.Yes SF still have a problem getting transfers from other parties so therefore big 1st preference doesn't always mean we can get a seat.If you take Newtownabbey for example in Glengormley we had about 1.4 qoutas but dont get tranfers so can only get the one elected. We always ask on the door for to be considered for 2nd or 3rd preference and I do believe that is happening but very slowly.
LOL, does the world not revolve around me? What about working with the stoops and getting some nationalist unity, a big job I know given that you have to try and work around the big egos and small iq of big Dolly and big Al.

Alex Maskey stood aside in S.Belfast to help get big Al elected the stoops have never yet made that gesture in F&S.Tyrone or N.Belfast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
The above is not unrelated to my post about lack of ynity in nationalism in another thread. As Glens and Nally on the SF side are unwilling or unable to give an answer can anyone from the SDLP?

ffs Apples do you think the world revolves around you.I am only back after working on election for 4 days so never seen your post.Yes SF still have a problem getting transfers from other parties so therefore big 1st preference doesn't always mean we can get a seat.If you take Newtownabbey for example in Glengormley we had about 1.4 qoutas but dont get tranfers so can only get the one elected. We always ask on the door for to be considered for 2nd or 3rd preference and I do believe that is happening but very slowly.
LOL, does the world not revolve around me? What about working with the stoops and getting some nationalist unity, a big job I know given that you have to try and work around the big egos and small iq of big Dolly and big Al.

Alex Maskey stood aside in S.Belfast to help get big Al elected the stoops have never yet made that gesture in F&S.Tyrone or N.Belfast.
Why though can we not have a similar approach to that of Unionism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 12:29:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
The above is not unrelated to my post about lack of ynity in nationalism in another thread. As Glens and Nally on the SF side are unwilling or unable to give an answer can anyone from the SDLP?

ffs Apples do you think the world revolves around you.I am only back after working on election for 4 days so never seen your post.Yes SF still have a problem getting transfers from other parties so therefore big 1st preference doesn't always mean we can get a seat.If you take Newtownabbey for example in Glengormley we had about 1.4 qoutas but dont get tranfers so can only get the one elected. We always ask on the door for to be considered for 2nd or 3rd preference and I do believe that is happening but very slowly.
LOL, does the world not revolve around me? What about working with the stoops and getting some nationalist unity, a big job I know given that you have to try and work around the big egos and small iq of big Dolly and big Al.

Alex Maskey stood aside in S.Belfast to help get big Al elected the stoops have never yet made that gesture in F&S.Tyrone or N.Belfast.
Why though can we not have a similar approach to that of Unionism.

Like what?You cant force people to transfer down the card if they don't want to and if you look at the state of the parties over the last 20/30 years Nationalists/republicans have been eating into the Unionist seats anyway.Think this will continue to happen and would like us to secure F&S.Tyrone next time and take N.Belfast,would also be very hopeful we will take more seats in Assembly election 1916 and Marty will be 1st Minister.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on May 28, 2014, 01:07:58 PM
Quoteould also be very hopeful we will take more seats in Assembly election 1916 and Marty will be 1st Minister.

And at that point, Unionists will pull the whole thing down.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on May 28, 2014, 01:44:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 12:29:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
The above is not unrelated to my post about lack of ynity in nationalism in another thread. As Glens and Nally on the SF side are unwilling or unable to give an answer can anyone from the SDLP?

ffs Apples do you think the world revolves around you.I am only back after working on election for 4 days so never seen your post.Yes SF still have a problem getting transfers from other parties so therefore big 1st preference doesn't always mean we can get a seat.If you take Newtownabbey for example in Glengormley we had about 1.4 qoutas but dont get tranfers so can only get the one elected. We always ask on the door for to be considered for 2nd or 3rd preference and I do believe that is happening but very slowly.
LOL, does the world not revolve around me? What about working with the stoops and getting some nationalist unity, a big job I know given that you have to try and work around the big egos and small iq of big Dolly and big Al.

Alex Maskey stood aside in S.Belfast to help get big Al elected the stoops have never yet made that gesture in F&S.Tyrone or N.Belfast.
Why though can we not have a similar approach to that of Unionism.

Like what?You cant force people to transfer down the card if they don't want to and if you look at the state of the parties over the last 20/30 years Nationalists/republicans have been eating into the Unionist seats anyway.Think this will continue to happen and would like us to secure F&S.Tyrone next time and take N.Belfast,would also be very hopeful we will take more seats in Assembly election 1916 and Marty will be 1st Minister.

Is that an intentional slip? :D We're trying to get into the 21st century here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 12:29:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
The above is not unrelated to my post about lack of unity in nationalism in another thread. As Glens and Nally on the SF side are unwilling or unable to give an answer can anyone from the SDLP?

ffs Apples do you think the world revolves around you.I am only back after working on election for 4 days so never seen your post.Yes SF still have a problem getting transfers from other parties so therefore big 1st preference doesn't always mean we can get a seat.If you take Newtownabbey for example in Glengormley we had about 1.4 qoutas but dont get transfers so can only get the one elected. We always ask on the door for to be considered for 2nd or 3rd preference and I do believe that is happening but very slowly.
LOL, does the world not revolve around me? What about working with the stoops and getting some nationalist unity, a big job I know given that you have to try and work around the big egos and small iq of big Dolly and big Al.

Alex Maskey stood aside in S.Belfast to help get big Al elected the stoops have never yet made that gesture in F&S.Tyrone or N.Belfast.
Why though can we not have a similar approach to that of Unionism.

Like what?You cant force people to transfer down the card if they don't want to and if you look at the state of the parties over the last 20/30 years Nationalists/republicans have been eating into the Unionist seats anyway.Think this will continue to happen and would like us to secure F&S.Tyrone next time and take N.Belfast,would also be very hopeful we will take more seats in Assembly election 1916 and Marty will be 1st Minister.
As a voter I'd like to see a bit more cooperation from the SDLP. Although having listened to Al on Sunday and Dolly today I would grant you that this is probably wishful thinking. It just annoys that Unionists can pull together to exclude whilst nationalists continue to be divided. I accept that Maskey did the decent thing and McKinney failed to reciprocate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 04:48:45 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 28, 2014, 01:44:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 12:29:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Quote from: glens abu on May 28, 2014, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 28, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 25, 2014, 10:33:07 AM
Nally/Glens how'd SF get the majority of first prefs but not translate them into seats? Serious question, I think it is perhaps down to lack of SDLP transfers? If they have a job to do within nationalism. As do the stoops. Unionism have galvanised their vote particularly the young vote and middle class. Middle class nationalist seem content to lie back and think of Britain. SF and the SDLP are now too accepting of all things British, City of Culture for example and this conveys an acceptance of the union to voters. There is still no consensus on unity amongst nationalist parties and this is disgraceful. Particularly in light of the UUP/DUP pact which will be undoubtedly be agreed between Peter and His poodle, as they both fall over themselves to become Cameron's poodles. Thoughts?
The above is not unrelated to my post about lack of ynity in nationalism in another thread. As Glens and Nally on the SF side are unwilling or unable to give an answer can anyone from the SDLP?

ffs Apples do you think the world revolves around you.I am only back after working on election for 4 days so never seen your post.Yes SF still have a problem getting transfers from other parties so therefore big 1st preference doesn't always mean we can get a seat.If you take Newtownabbey for example in Glengormley we had about 1.4 qoutas but dont get tranfers so can only get the one elected. We always ask on the door for to be considered for 2nd or 3rd preference and I do believe that is happening but very slowly.
LOL, does the world not revolve around me? What about working with the stoops and getting some nationalist unity, a big job I know given that you have to try and work around the big egos and small iq of big Dolly and big Al.

Alex Maskey stood aside in S.Belfast to help get big Al elected the stoops have never yet made that gesture in F&S.Tyrone or N.Belfast.
Why though can we not have a similar approach to that of Unionism.

Like what?You cant force people to transfer down the card if they don't want to and if you look at the state of the parties over the last 20/30 years Nationalists/republicans have been eating into the Unionist seats anyway.Think this will continue to happen and would like us to secure F&S.Tyrone next time and take N.Belfast,would also be very hopeful we will take more seats in Assembly election 1916 and Marty will be 1st Minister.

Is that an intentional slip? :D We're trying to get into the 21st century here.

;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
I am opposed to voting pacts. People should be free to vote for who they want, and not who a party chooses for them by not contesting. Given that Michelle Gildernew hasnt been seen much in the past few years, I think Arlene Foster will take Fermanagh South Tyrone next time out. The DUP polled well here in this past election and it will increase no doubt in a pact.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 28, 2014, 05:10:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
I am opposed to voting pacts. People should be free to vote for who they want, and not who a party chooses for them by not contesting. Given that Michelle Gildernew hasnt been seen much in the past few years, I think Arlene Foster will take Fermanagh South Tyrone next time out. The DUP polled well here in this past election and it will increase no doubt in a pact.
I would also be opposed to voting pacts in principle. However, if unionists are going to reduce elections to a sectarian headcount, then there's only one way to ensure they desist: make sure it doesn't work for them. To that end, I would support limited voting pacts between the two nationalist parties unless and until unionists stop doing the same.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 05:20:36 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 28, 2014, 05:10:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
I am opposed to voting pacts. People should be free to vote for who they want, and not who a party chooses for them by not contesting. Given that Michelle Gildernew hasnt been seen much in the past few years, I think Arlene Foster will take Fermanagh South Tyrone next time out. The DUP polled well here in this past election and it will increase no doubt in a pact.
I would also be opposed to voting pacts in principle. However, if unionists are going to reduce elections to a sectarian headcount, then there's only one way to ensure they desist: make sure it doesn't work for them. To that end, I would support limited voting pacts between the two nationalist parties unless and until unionists stop doing the same.

For the MP seats we should consider an agreed candidate who will take their seat in Parliment. After all, its were the major decisions are made.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 28, 2014, 07:41:40 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 05:20:36 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 28, 2014, 05:10:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
I am opposed to voting pacts. People should be free to vote for who they want, and not who a party chooses for them by not contesting. Given that Michelle Gildernew hasnt been seen much in the past few years, I think Arlene Foster will take Fermanagh South Tyrone next time out. The DUP polled well here in this past election and it will increase no doubt in a pact.
I would also be opposed to voting pacts in principle. However, if unionists are going to reduce elections to a sectarian headcount, then there's only one way to ensure they desist: make sure it doesn't work for them. To that end, I would support limited voting pacts between the two nationalist parties unless and until unionists stop doing the same.

For the MP seats we should consider an agreed candidate who will take their seat in Parliment. After all, its were the major decisions are made.
That's a possible runner, if forced down that route - someone respected, not tied to either party, and willing to do the job properly. I don't agree with pacts generally, and don't see the obsession with having to vote down the green or orange card. I also don't see why the SDLP would stand aside for a party that won't take their seat and represent everyone. It achieves little other than bragging rights, from what i can see.

And we don't have to reduce every vote to a headcount. Some people seem obsessed with it. If SF voters don't want to transfer, fair enough. If SDLP voters want to transfer to Alliance, fair enough.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 29, 2014, 11:50:42 AM
Whilst the UUP and DUP will undoubtedly agree candidates, I wouldn't be too sure about the TUV, they will want to amass votes and with the exception of FST may well run in all constituencies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on May 29, 2014, 07:31:23 PM
By Frances Davis

In last week's elections Sinn Féin stood on a strong anti-austerity programme, both north and south, with a clear, left alternative economic policy coupled with a strong advocacy of the peace process and for Irish reunification. Its vote is the strongest for the party since 1918.

Martin McGuinness rightly described this as a `landmark' election. As well as surging ahead in the European elections, Sinn Féin became the largest party in the major cities of Dublin, Derry, Cork and Belfast. Overall Sinn Féin is the largest party on the island of Ireland.

That this should happen in the context of the arrest, detention for four days and subsequent release without charge of Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams, just two weeks before the election, is a further testament to the strength of Sinn Féin.

In addition to the left progressive nature of its manifesto, Sinn Féin's campaign and candidates were notable for the high numbers of women (3 out of the 4 MEPs), for its prominence on social equality issues, for example the election of LGBT campaigners and candidates in Belfast and elsewhere, and for its strong stance on anti-racism and the inclusion of prominent black candidates such as Edmund Lukusa in Dublin.

In terms of the results, the European elections saw particularly striking gains, with Sinn Féin winning an MEP seat in each one of the island's four electoral areas – topping the poll by some considerable margin in two of them: with Martina Anderson in the north (25 per cent) and Lynn Boylan in Dublin. Lynn Boylan's campaign had seen her soar ahead, polling 23 per cent (she almost got elected outright in first count of votes, without requiring any transfers from other parties, which is highly unusually) and winning over 40 per cent of the votes in some areas of the city. Both Matt Carthy (17 per cent) and Liadh ni Riadh (19 per cent) were also elected for Sinn Féin in the North West/Midlands and the South respectively. Sinn Féin's overall vote in the 26 county European election was 19.5 per cent and in the north 25.5 per cent.

Full results of the local government elections in the 26 and six counties can be found here.

In the 26 counties' council elections, where Sinn Féin candidates stood in every area for the first time, the party's vote rose to 15.2 per cent (up from 7.8 per cent in 2009). In contrast Labour fell from 14 per cent to just 7.8 per cent (and in the Euros down to 5 per cent). Labour's coalition government partner Fine Gael also fell from 35 per cent to 24 per cent, and with Fianna Fail staying static on 25 per cent.

In the European election Fine Fail and Fine Gael both polled around 22 per cent, with Labour down to just 5 per cent. Labour's abysmal result saw the leader of the party and current Tanaiste (deputy Prime Minister) Eamonn Gilmore, resign as Labour leader. However, as Gerry Adams pointed out, what is needed is not a change of personnel but a change of policy and Labour's disastrous right wing course in government Ireland has strong lessons for Labour in Britain.

Labour's meltdown and the decline in Fine Gael's vote reflect the absolute rejection by the population of the coalition's austerity policies. And whilst Fianna Fail's vote had marginally recovered from their last general election collapse as a result of their own austerity policies and the catastrophic economic situation which saw the public pay the price for the bank bailouts, the population were clearly not returning in significant numbers, and on the contrary were turning against the right wing establishment parties. The high vote for independents also reflects this, with former Labour MEP Nessa Childers, who resigned over opposition to austerity, gaining the third seat in Dublin, and maverick anti-EU independent `Ming' Flannagan topping the poll in the North West.

As Sinn Féin Deputy President Mary Lou McDonald described it, the palpable anger on the doorsteps at the unfairness of policies was reflected in the vote, after a whole raft of punitive and regressive taxes, the withdrawal of medical cards, attacks on disabled people and the most vulnerable members of society, massive drop in living standards and wage levels and growing unemployment driving young people into forced emigration.

Sinn Féin's platform, offering a progressive alternative to this, saw huge and rising support in parts of Ireland which had not seen any Sinn Féin representation for decades. This shift, for the first time since partition, sees a change in the political landscape whereby the two right wing bourgeois nationalist parties, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, with junior partners such as Labour in recent times, dominating government. Sinn Féin's advance has broken through this with the potential to break out of the right wing economic policies and towards reunification of the country. One Fine Gael Minister commented on RTE that the next southern general election would be the choice between Fine Gael and Sinn Féin. As one commentator put it, the prospect of a Fine Gael -Fianna Fail coalition, in order to keep the right wing establishment in power, may now be the option for them. This, at least, would clarify the situation in terms of what the real choices are. The two parties trade on the old animosities of the Irish civil war, But in reality they are both parties of the counter-revolution which took place after the British were forced to withdraw from most of Ireland.

In the north Sinn Féin's vote held steady in percentage terms in the local elections with it emerging as the largest party at just over 24 per cent, and the number of first preference votes cast increasing. The backdrop to the elections had been the ongoing unionist refusal to co-operate in both the power sharing government and in terms of moving forward with the peace process, blocking the Haass proposals on dealing with the past and other issues, and shifting to the right in encouraging sectarian entrenchment around issues such as the flags protests and bigoted parades. This `race to the bottom', was of course embarked upon to try to win votes, but simply served to strengthen and embolden the most reactionary elements. Unionist blocking of the peace process has been facilitated by the right wing Tory government in London.

In contrast, Sinn Féin had sought to work the institutions as positively as possibly, and to defend the population in the face of the Tory austerity attacks, blocking the Welfare Reform Bill's application to the North against unionist attempts to push it through. In some cities, where Belfast Mayor Sinn Féin's Mairtin O Muilleoir had a particularly broad and high profile, the Sinn Féin vote was very strong, as in many other areas across the north.

In the event there was no dramatic change in terms of the unionist vote-share, although notable that whilst Sinn Féin became more hegemonic in terms of the nationalist vote (with the SDLP dropping further to 13 per cent, down from 15), unionism became ever more divided, with a myriad of parties in contention. Of the main two, the DUP vote dropped to just under 24 per cent in the locals (from 27 per cent) and in the Euros at 23 per cent (up from 17 last time). The UUP vote rose slightly by 1 per cent in the locals, from a previous low, and dropped by 4 per cent in the Euros.

Meanwhile, the ultra-sectarian rejectionist Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) failed to make any substantial breakthrough, but did see its vote in the local elections rise from 2 per cent to 4.5 per cent. In the European election it polled much higher, but saw its percentage drop by 1 per cent to 12 per cent. The more `moderate' unionist parties – the Alliance and the new NI21 – had mixed fortunes. Despite being targeted by loyalists, encouraged by the DUP and UUP, and the furore around candidate Anna Lo's support for Irish unity, the Alliance vote more or less held up, dropping marginally in the locals by less than 1 per cent to 6.65 per cent. In the Euros it rose to 7 per cent. However, the new NI21 imploded two days before the election, with its two most prominent leaders publicly attacking each other amidst allegation and counter allegation, and its European candidate resigned on election day. Despite this disarray they did succeed in getting one councillor elected.

The battle and divisions within unionism saw an increase in unionist turn out, although in areas where the vote was mobilised to try to oust Sinn Féin representatives on a purely sectarian basis, such as in the embattled Short Strand nationalist enclave this was unsuccessful, as Sinn Féin's Niall O Donnghaile held onto his seat on an equally high nationalist mobilisation. In other areas, Sinn Féin made in-roads, reflecting the changing demographics across the north.

In Belfast, People Before Profit did gain one councillor after a high profile campaign in one particular area, but their overall vote was 0.3 per cent. One `independent' republican was elected in Derry, at the expense of the SDLP, however the anti-peace process `republicans' Eirigi got a miniscule vote of 0.2 per cent overall and without a single candidate elected.

Coming out of the elections the next steps will be on a number of fronts, both in terms of defending the population against austerity attacks, in the context of a weakened government in the south, and in defending the peace process in the teeth of right wing unionism and a negative Tory Government in London. Sinn Féin's efforts on all of this should be strongly supported here.

In conclusion, the elections in Ireland prove a key turning point in both advancing the left and Ireland's national struggle (both of which are totally connected). In Britain, clear lessons can be learned that a party with a clear left alternative programme can win votes against the right. Moreover, in Ireland, this is being done by a party which has led, and is leading, one of the longest struggles against colonialism in history. Sinn Féin should be strongly supported and their strategy learned from by the left in Britain – and across Europe.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on May 29, 2014, 07:42:05 PM
Quote from: glens abu on May 29, 2014, 07:31:23 PM
By Frances Davis

In last week's elections Sinn Féin stood on a strong anti-austerity programme, both north and south, with a clear, left alternative economic policy coupled with a strong advocacy of the peace process and for Irish reunification. Its vote is the strongest for the party since 1918.

Martin McGuinness rightly described this as a `landmark' election. As well as surging ahead in the European elections, Sinn Féin became the largest party in the major cities of Dublin, Derry, Cork and Belfast. Overall Sinn Féin is the largest party on the island of Ireland.

That this should happen in the context of the arrest, detention for four days and subsequent release without charge of Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams, just two weeks before the election, is a further testament to the strength of Sinn Féin.

In addition to the left progressive nature of its manifesto, Sinn Féin's campaign and candidates were notable for the high numbers of women (3 out of the 4 MEPs), for its prominence on social equality issues, for example the election of LGBT campaigners and candidates in Belfast and elsewhere, and for its strong stance on anti-racism and the inclusion of prominent black candidates such as Edmund Lukusa in Dublin.

In terms of the results, the European elections saw particularly striking gains, with Sinn Féin winning an MEP seat in each one of the island's four electoral areas – topping the poll by some considerable margin in two of them: with Martina Anderson in the north (25 per cent) and Lynn Boylan in Dublin. Lynn Boylan's campaign had seen her soar ahead, polling 23 per cent (she almost got elected outright in first count of votes, without requiring any transfers from other parties, which is highly unusually) and winning over 40 per cent of the votes in some areas of the city. Both Matt Carthy (17 per cent) and Liadh ni Riadh (19 per cent) were also elected for Sinn Féin in the North West/Midlands and the South respectively. Sinn Féin's overall vote in the 26 county European election was 19.5 per cent and in the north 25.5 per cent.

Full results of the local government elections in the 26 and six counties can be found here.

In the 26 counties' council elections, where Sinn Féin candidates stood in every area for the first time, the party's vote rose to 15.2 per cent (up from 7.8 per cent in 2009). In contrast Labour fell from 14 per cent to just 7.8 per cent (and in the Euros down to 5 per cent). Labour's coalition government partner Fine Gael also fell from 35 per cent to 24 per cent, and with Fianna Fail staying static on 25 per cent.

In the European election Fine Fail and Fine Gael both polled around 22 per cent, with Labour down to just 5 per cent. Labour's abysmal result saw the leader of the party and current Tanaiste (deputy Prime Minister) Eamonn Gilmore, resign as Labour leader. However, as Gerry Adams pointed out, what is needed is not a change of personnel but a change of policy and Labour's disastrous right wing course in government Ireland has strong lessons for Labour in Britain.

Labour's meltdown and the decline in Fine Gael's vote reflect the absolute rejection by the population of the coalition's austerity policies. And whilst Fianna Fail's vote had marginally recovered from their last general election collapse as a result of their own austerity policies and the catastrophic economic situation which saw the public pay the price for the bank bailouts, the population were clearly not returning in significant numbers, and on the contrary were turning against the right wing establishment parties. The high vote for independents also reflects this, with former Labour MEP Nessa Childers, who resigned over opposition to austerity, gaining the third seat in Dublin, and maverick anti-EU independent `Ming' Flannagan topping the poll in the North West.

As Sinn Féin Deputy President Mary Lou McDonald described it, the palpable anger on the doorsteps at the unfairness of policies was reflected in the vote, after a whole raft of punitive and regressive taxes, the withdrawal of medical cards, attacks on disabled people and the most vulnerable members of society, massive drop in living standards and wage levels and growing unemployment driving young people into forced emigration.

Sinn Féin's platform, offering a progressive alternative to this, saw huge and rising support in parts of Ireland which had not seen any Sinn Féin representation for decades. This shift, for the first time since partition, sees a change in the political landscape whereby the two right wing bourgeois nationalist parties, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, with junior partners such as Labour in recent times, dominating government. Sinn Féin's advance has broken through this with the potential to break out of the right wing economic policies and towards reunification of the country. One Fine Gael Minister commented on RTE that the next southern general election would be the choice between Fine Gael and Sinn Féin. As one commentator put it, the prospect of a Fine Gael -Fianna Fail coalition, in order to keep the right wing establishment in power, may now be the option for them. This, at least, would clarify the situation in terms of what the real choices are. The two parties trade on the old animosities of the Irish civil war, But in reality they are both parties of the counter-revolution which took place after the British were forced to withdraw from most of Ireland.

In the north Sinn Féin's vote held steady in percentage terms in the local elections with it emerging as the largest party at just over 24 per cent, and the number of first preference votes cast increasing. The backdrop to the elections had been the ongoing unionist refusal to co-operate in both the power sharing government and in terms of moving forward with the peace process, blocking the Haass proposals on dealing with the past and other issues, and shifting to the right in encouraging sectarian entrenchment around issues such as the flags protests and bigoted parades. This `race to the bottom', was of course embarked upon to try to win votes, but simply served to strengthen and embolden the most reactionary elements. Unionist blocking of the peace process has been facilitated by the right wing Tory government in London.

In contrast, Sinn Féin had sought to work the institutions as positively as possibly, and to defend the population in the face of the Tory austerity attacks, blocking the Welfare Reform Bill's application to the North against unionist attempts to push it through. In some cities, where Belfast Mayor Sinn Féin's Mairtin O Muilleoir had a particularly broad and high profile, the Sinn Féin vote was very strong, as in many other areas across the north.

In the event there was no dramatic change in terms of the unionist vote-share, although notable that whilst Sinn Féin became more hegemonic in terms of the nationalist vote (with the SDLP dropping further to 13 per cent, down from 15), unionism became ever more divided, with a myriad of parties in contention. Of the main two, the DUP vote dropped to just under 24 per cent in the locals (from 27 per cent) and in the Euros at 23 per cent (up from 17 last time). The UUP vote rose slightly by 1 per cent in the locals, from a previous low, and dropped by 4 per cent in the Euros.

Meanwhile, the ultra-sectarian rejectionist Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) failed to make any substantial breakthrough, but did see its vote in the local elections rise from 2 per cent to 4.5 per cent. In the European election it polled much higher, but saw its percentage drop by 1 per cent to 12 per cent. The more `moderate' unionist parties – the Alliance and the new NI21 – had mixed fortunes. Despite being targeted by loyalists, encouraged by the DUP and UUP, and the furore around candidate Anna Lo's support for Irish unity, the Alliance vote more or less held up, dropping marginally in the locals by less than 1 per cent to 6.65 per cent. In the Euros it rose to 7 per cent. However, the new NI21 imploded two days before the election, with its two most prominent leaders publicly attacking each other amidst allegation and counter allegation, and its European candidate resigned on election day. Despite this disarray they did succeed in getting one councillor elected.

The battle and divisions within unionism saw an increase in unionist turn out, although in areas where the vote was mobilised to try to oust Sinn Féin representatives on a purely sectarian basis, such as in the embattled Short Strand nationalist enclave this was unsuccessful, as Sinn Féin's Niall O Donnghaile held onto his seat on an equally high nationalist mobilisation. In other areas, Sinn Féin made in-roads, reflecting the changing demographics across the north.

In Belfast, People Before Profit did gain one councillor after a high profile campaign in one particular area, but their overall vote was 0.3 per cent. One `independent' republican was elected in Derry, at the expense of the SDLP, however the anti-peace process `republicans' Eirigi got a miniscule vote of 0.2 per cent overall and without a single candidate elected.

Coming out of the elections the next steps will be on a number of fronts, both in terms of defending the population against austerity attacks, in the context of a weakened government in the south, and in defending the peace process in the teeth of right wing unionism and a negative Tory Government in London. Sinn Féin's efforts on all of this should be strongly supported here.

In conclusion, the elections in Ireland prove a key turning point in both advancing the left and Ireland's national struggle (both of which are totally connected). In Britain, clear lessons can be learned that a party with a clear left alternative programme can win votes against the right. Moreover, in Ireland, this is being done by a party which has led, and is leading, one of the longest struggles against colonialism in history. Sinn Féin should be strongly supported and their strategy learned from by the left in Britain – and across Europe.
That's a fairly well-balanced piece.  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 29, 2014, 08:17:29 PM
We're all saved it seems by SuperFéin. ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 30, 2014, 09:57:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 28, 2014, 07:41:40 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 05:20:36 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 28, 2014, 05:10:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
I am opposed to voting pacts. People should be free to vote for who they want, and not who a party chooses for them by not contesting. Given that Michelle Gildernew hasnt been seen much in the past few years, I think Arlene Foster will take Fermanagh South Tyrone next time out. The DUP polled well here in this past election and it will increase no doubt in a pact.
I would also be opposed to voting pacts in principle. However, if unionists are going to reduce elections to a sectarian headcount, then there's only one way to ensure they desist: make sure it doesn't work for them. To that end, I would support limited voting pacts between the two nationalist parties unless and until unionists stop doing the same.

For the MP seats we should consider an agreed candidate who will take their seat in Parliment. After all, its were the major decisions are made.
That's a possible runner, if forced down that route - someone respected, not tied to either party, and willing to do the job properly. I don't agree with pacts generally, and don't see the obsession with having to vote down the green or orange card. I also don't see why the SDLP would stand aside for a party that won't take their seat and represent everyone. It achieves little other than bragging rights, from what i can see.

And we don't have to reduce every vote to a headcount. Some people seem obsessed with it. If SF voters don't want to transfer, fair enough. If SDLP voters want to transfer to Alliance, fair enough.
As a Nationalist, I don't care if my MP takes a seat in the British Parliament, greater influence can come from lobbying than anything they may say in a couple of minutes to an empty chamber.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 30, 2014, 10:52:26 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 30, 2014, 09:57:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 28, 2014, 07:41:40 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 05:20:36 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 28, 2014, 05:10:56 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 28, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
I am opposed to voting pacts. People should be free to vote for who they want, and not who a party chooses for them by not contesting. Given that Michelle Gildernew hasnt been seen much in the past few years, I think Arlene Foster will take Fermanagh South Tyrone next time out. The DUP polled well here in this past election and it will increase no doubt in a pact.
I would also be opposed to voting pacts in principle. However, if unionists are going to reduce elections to a sectarian headcount, then there's only one way to ensure they desist: make sure it doesn't work for them. To that end, I would support limited voting pacts between the two nationalist parties unless and until unionists stop doing the same.

For the MP seats we should consider an agreed candidate who will take their seat in Parliment. After all, its were the major decisions are made.
That's a possible runner, if forced down that route - someone respected, not tied to either party, and willing to do the job properly. I don't agree with pacts generally, and don't see the obsession with having to vote down the green or orange card. I also don't see why the SDLP would stand aside for a party that won't take their seat and represent everyone. It achieves little other than bragging rights, from what i can see.

And we don't have to reduce every vote to a headcount. Some people seem obsessed with it. If SF voters don't want to transfer, fair enough. If SDLP voters want to transfer to Alliance, fair enough.
As a Nationalist, I don't care if my MP takes a seat in the British Parliament, greater influence can come from lobbying than anything they may say in a couple of minutes to an empty chamber.

Recently there was a vote to attack Syria and thankfully it was defeated. However, if it had carried by 2 votes say, wouldnt it have been a shame t not have used the bites to defeat it?

Then again, given that Sinn Fein refused to condemn the bombing of Libya and gave Cameron 2 standing ovations it wouldnt surprise me if they voted for an attack.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on June 01, 2014, 02:44:59 PM
There is a very good chance that Sinn Féin could be part of a coalition government next time round in the south.

If that happens I will watch with great interest to see if they boot the US military out of Shannon. Big talk is fine in opposition, but realpolitik is a bitch.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on June 01, 2014, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2014, 02:44:59 PM
There is a very good chance that Sinn Féin could be part of a coalition government next time round in the south.

If that happens I will watch with great interest to see if they boot the US military out of Shannon. Big talk is fine in opposition, but realpolitik is a bitch.
Fully agree on both counts.

But isn't that politics and political parties in general - lots of talk but feck all actual implementation when in power! We've seen that time and time again from all incoming governments - esp the current one. ( mostly on economics , eu and jobs).

I'd be pleasantly surprised if any gov does what it promises in election time!

Can't see sf getting into gov even as coalition next time out.
We've seen that junior partners in coalition are usually destroyed - so I'd expect sf or any parties to be wary in the future !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on June 08, 2014, 12:21:21 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-27751198

Truth Commission in Columbia. What's the chances of getting one here ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on June 12, 2014, 11:48:53 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27806854

Come dine with me next in Martin's house.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 12, 2014, 12:59:03 PM
Quote from: orangeman on June 12, 2014, 11:48:53 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27806854

Come dine with me next in Martin's house.

SF have totally taken the soup!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on June 12, 2014, 03:56:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 12, 2014, 12:59:03 PM
Quote from: orangeman on June 12, 2014, 11:48:53 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27806854

Come dine with me next in Martin's house.

SF have totally taken the soup!

At this stage, nothing they say or do surprises anyone anymore.

It's another case of "this is good for the peace process" and "Anyone opposed to this is anti peace / dissident / opponent of change / etc, etc.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on July 05, 2014, 05:50:49 PM
Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness and Deputy First Minister has made bursary awards as part of the Bobby Sands Gaeltacht Scholarship to pupils of St Colm's High School in Twinbrook, where Bobby Sands lived.

The bursary is a joint initiative taken by Colin Sinn Féin and the Bobby Sands Gaeltacht Scholarship, a recently-formed group of local business people dedicated to helping children interested in learning and speaking Irish.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on August 05, 2014, 01:26:43 PM
Terrible performance by Ruane trying to debate this topic with wee Jeffrey this morning on radio bluster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28654599 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28654599)

Tip for Caitriona - when you are trying to argue a point sometimes less words is more effective.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 09, 2014, 10:04:43 AM
So the FM wants to reform Stormont? But rather than talk to McGuinness about it he does an article in the Telegraph. Time SF pulled the plug. What self respecting Nationalist gives a toss about this dysfunctional supercouncil. Joint authority Peter is the way to go with Adams as Tanaiste and Minister of Foreign Affairs calling the shots...careful what you wish for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 09, 2014, 10:54:56 AM
Presumablky SF will just continue to say NO to any attempts by DUP and other Unionists to undermine the Good Friday Agreement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on September 09, 2014, 10:57:19 AM
Its a sorry state of affairs and the DUP want it this way. They are seeing that the nationalist side are becoming more powerful and they are crapping themselves about making one wrong decision and if over for them.
The silence from S.F and SDLP is also worrying, you would think they would be more vocal about what is going on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on September 09, 2014, 02:37:51 PM
Graduate that Robbo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on September 10, 2014, 10:08:27 AM
Any word of a border poll ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on September 10, 2014, 11:08:54 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 09, 2014, 10:04:43 AM
So the FM wants to reform Stormont? But rather than talk to McGuinness about it he does an article in the Telegraph. Time SF pulled the plug. What self respecting Nationalist gives a toss about this dysfunctional supercouncil. Joint authority Peter is the way to go with Adams as Tanaiste and Minister of Foreign Affairs calling the shots...careful what you wish for.

guys the plug wont be pulled too many on both sides in on the gravy train

most ordinary people think Stormont as it stands is a joke
if nesbitt /the alliance and the sdlp had any self respect they would go into opposition and challenge the status quo
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on September 10, 2014, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: naka on September 10, 2014, 11:08:54 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 09, 2014, 10:04:43 AM
So the FM wants to reform Stormont? But rather than talk to McGuinness about it he does an article in the Telegraph. Time SF pulled the plug. What self respecting Nationalist gives a toss about this dysfunctional supercouncil. Joint authority Peter is the way to go with Adams as Tanaiste and Minister of Foreign Affairs calling the shots...careful what you wish for.

guys the plug wont be pulled too many on both sides in on the gravy train

most ordinary people think Stormont as it stands is a joke
if nesbitt /the alliance and the sdlp had any self respect they would go into opposition and challenge the status quo

I'm always bemused with this suggestion but no one has ever made it clear what difference that would make. IMO the 'status quo' is the partition of this island with the British retaining sovereignty. The Stormont Executive  is no more than an administrative set-up with semi-independent departments managing their allocated resources. The Stormont Assembly as far as I can see serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. The SDLP resigning their Executive seat in Stomont will never change or challenge the 'status quo' nor make a blind bit of difference to anyone. The Stoops to their credit are at least smart enough to recognise this. The challenge to the 'status quo' will only come after the slow learners realise that the Good Friday Agreement and St Andrews were only interim agreements pending a final and just settlement on the constitutional future of the island. Peter Robinson is correct in that Stormont and St Andrews is not fit for purpose - like did he really believe his brand of obstructionist anti-Irish bigotry was ever going to be acceptable in the medium to long-term. Not a f**king chance Peter, you were just getting roped into the system. Cheers for that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 10, 2014, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: Ulick on September 10, 2014, 11:26:36 AM
The challenge to the 'status quo' will only come after the slow learners realise that the Good Friday Agreement and St Andrews were only interim agreements pending a final and just settlement on the constitutional future of the island.

But those who advocate some other arrangements have to propose a plan of some sort to replace the present arrangements. There is no sign of such a plan. Alex Salmond has shown how leadership can bring about change, we are devoid of any leadership.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on September 10, 2014, 12:28:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 10, 2014, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: Ulick on September 10, 2014, 11:26:36 AM
The challenge to the 'status quo' will only come after the slow learners realise that the Good Friday Agreement and St Andrews were only interim agreements pending a final and just settlement on the constitutional future of the island.

But those who advocate some other arrangements have to propose a plan of some sort to replace the present arrangements. There is no sign of such a plan. Alex Salmond has shown how leadership can bring about change, we are devoid of any leadership.

Not at all. If Scotland vote Yes there is no existing constitutional plan of how it'll all pan out - it's all still to be negotiated. Same thing will happen here.

Salmond has promised everything to everyone and has the real power in the Scottish Assembly to bribe and cajole those who are reticent about the benefits of independence. And fair play to him, he's only doing what generations of Labour politicians have done before him. However the same situation doesn't exist here because the current set-up here means SF & SDLP can ever have the same level of power as the SNP have in Scotland, everything has to be agreed with Unionists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 10, 2014, 01:55:38 PM
I can't help but feel the Shinners are quite happy to limp along, portraying Unionists as the wreckers. There is no real love for Stormont with the Nationalist electorate, its a Unionist institution. Let them pull it down if they want, joint authority is the next step.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 10, 2014, 02:04:58 PM
Quote from: Ulick on September 10, 2014, 12:28:17 PM
Salmond has promised everything to everyone and has the real power in the Scottish Assembly to bribe and cajole those who are reticent about the benefits of independence. And fair play to him, he's only doing what generations of Labour politicians have done before him. However the same situation doesn't exist here because the current set-up here means SF & SDLP can ever have the same level of power as the SNP have in Scotland, everything has to be agreed with Unionists.

Salmond has convinced people that oil money will allow the sums add up. SF is opposing fracking, so that doesn't seem to be their strategy, one wonders what is their plan to make the sums add up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 11, 2014, 09:15:58 PM
Referring to promises of more autonomy for Scotland in the event of a No vote, MCGuinness said that he would be making "very strong arguments" if Scotland got the power to set its social welfare rates.

What changes is he going to make to welfare, lower rates reflecting the fact that wages are lower in NI? Or increased rates to pay off the SF voters? How to he going to pay for the latter?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 11, 2014, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 10, 2014, 02:04:58 PM
Quote from: Ulick on September 10, 2014, 12:28:17 PM
Salmond has promised everything to everyone and has the real power in the Scottish Assembly to bribe and cajole those who are reticent about the benefits of independence. And fair play to him, he's only doing what generations of Labour politicians have done before him. However the same situation doesn't exist here because the current set-up here means SF & SDLP can ever have the same level of power as the SNP have in Scotland, everything has to be agreed with Unionists.

Salmond has convinced people that oil money will allow the sums add up. SF is opposing fracking, so that doesn't seem to be their strategy, one wonders what is their plan to make the sums add up.
They don't worry about sums adding up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 11, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 11, 2014, 09:15:58 PM
Referring to promises of more autonomy for Scotland in the event of a No vote, MCGuinness said that he would be making "very strong arguments" if Scotland got the power to set its social welfare rates.

What changes is he going to make to welfare, lower rates reflecting the fact that wages are lower in NI? Or increased rates to pay off the SF voters? How to he going to pay for the latter?
The Assembly does effectively have power to set its social welfare rates. It's just that if they want to retain current levels, or raise welfare payments, they'll have to take money from elsewhere - health, education, arts, roads etc. - to make up the difference. I can't see how that would be any different if additional powers were granted. More powers generally come with an adjustment to the block grant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 11, 2014, 09:37:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 11, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
The Assembly does effectively have power to set its social welfare rates. It's just that if they want to retain current levels, or raise welfare payments, they'll have to take money from elsewhere - health, education, arts, roads etc. - to make up the difference. I can't see how that would be any different if additional powers were granted. More powers generally come with an adjustment to the block grant.

The Scots may get the ability to fiddle around with income tax and so forth, so SF can increase this to fund the handouts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 16, 2014, 06:22:41 PM
So what's going on with Ruane and this PSNI appointment? She claims the process has been compromised... but won't say how.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 16, 2014, 07:31:19 PM
Others on the Board saying it's because the succesful candidate signed the arrestb warrant for Gerry.
If the process was compromised I'd expect a Legal Challenge......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 17, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Shinners have lost the plot. This is a fit of petulance because our Jarry was pulled in. I'd be more worried about the growing acceptance by "nationalists" of NI and its place in the union if I was them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on September 17, 2014, 05:40:46 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 17, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Shinners have lost the plot. This is a fit of petulance because our Jarry was pulled in. I'd be more worried about the growing acceptance by "nationalists" of NI and its place in the union if I was them.

And yet, in most of the talk of the big vote tomorrow, the Union seems to mean England and occasionally Wales.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on September 17, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 17, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Shinners have lost the plot. This is a fit of petulance because our Jarry was pulled in. I'd be more worried about the growing acceptance by "nationalists" of NI and its place in the union if I was them.

Apples you come out with some s###e,how have you discovered that more nationalists now accept the union and SF are fighting the welfare cuts in the North and fighting austerity in the South on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 17, 2014, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: glens abu on September 17, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 17, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Shinners have lost the plot. This is a fit of petulance because our Jarry was pulled in. I'd be more worried about the growing acceptance by "nationalists" of NI and its place in the union if I was them.

Apples you come out with some s###e,how have you discovered that more nationalists now accept the union and SF are fighting the welfare cuts in the North and fighting austerity in the South on a daily basis.

Fighting the balancing of budgets isn't much help when the question of public finances is the main obstacle to unity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on September 17, 2014, 09:56:47 PM
Quote from: glens abu on September 17, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 17, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Shinners have lost the plot. This is a fit of petulance because our Jarry was pulled in. I'd be more worried about the growing acceptance by "nationalists" of NI and its place in the union if I was them.

Apples you come out with some s###e,how have you discovered that more nationalists now accept the union and SF are fighting the welfare cuts in the North and fighting austerity in the South on a daily basis.

+1 should be renamed lets bash the Shinners by poor wee stoopies thread,

I wouldnt be Sinn Fein no 1 fan at the moment but the nonsense spewed here is petty and school yard like. Anyone that take up a job is a Gravy trainer!!! How dare they want to help run this part of our island.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 17, 2014, 11:25:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 17, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Shinners have lost the plot. This is a fit of petulance because our Jarry was pulled in. I'd be more worried about the growing acceptance by "nationalists" of NI and its place in the union if I was them.
+1. I know quite a few 'nationalists' in Fermanagh and they said they'd move to England rather than live in a UI. I was like WTF, you're either a nationalist or you're not. Most of them gave me 'oh we have it better here'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 18, 2014, 09:47:40 AM
Quote from: glens abu on September 17, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 17, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Shinners have lost the plot. This is a fit of petulance because our Jarry was pulled in. I'd be more worried about the growing acceptance by "nationalists" of NI and its place in the union if I was them.

Apples you come out with some s###e,how have you discovered that more nationalists now accept the union and SF are fighting the welfare cuts in the North and fighting austerity in the South on a daily basis.
Look around you, listen to people and look at opinion polls. I'm no stoop as someone else alluded. Even SF have joined the union with their stop the tory cuts. Go read an insightful peice by Newton Emerson in todays IN and you'll see where I'm coming from.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 22, 2014, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: glens abu on September 17, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 17, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Shinners have lost the plot. This is a fit of petulance because our Jarry was pulled in. I'd be more worried about the growing acceptance by "nationalists" of NI and its place in the union if I was them.

Apples you come out with some s###e,how have you discovered that more nationalists now accept the union and SF are fighting the welfare cuts in the North and fighting austerity in the South on a daily basis.
They've done nothing in the north, they've stopped nothing. They've just passed the cuts destined for welfare onto the other departments. They also joined the DUP in passing the Public Service Pension Bill - http://socialistpartyni.net/workplace/assembly-politicians-savage-workers-pensions/#.VCB1QytdWKw
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 22, 2014, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 22, 2014, 08:17:26 PM
They've done nothing in the north, they've stopped nothing. They've just passed the cuts destined for welfare onto the other departments. They also joined the DUP in passing the Public Service Pension Bill - http://socialistpartyni.net/workplace/assembly-politicians-savage-workers-pensions/#.VCB1QytdWKw

The most striking thing about that link is that it states that there are 250,000 public servants in NI! In the 26 counties there are about 280,000, which some people consider an unreasonable number, although these are probably wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 23, 2014, 12:20:36 PM
Thats another isuue, far too many especially in the health service. I stand by my original remarks, nothing anyone has posted has altered my belief.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2014, 12:42:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 22, 2014, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 22, 2014, 08:17:26 PM
They've done nothing in the north, they've stopped nothing. They've just passed the cuts destined for welfare onto the other departments. They also joined the DUP in passing the Public Service Pension Bill - http://socialistpartyni.net/workplace/assembly-politicians-savage-workers-pensions/#.VCB1QytdWKw

The most striking thing about that link is that it states that there are 250,000 public servants in NI! In the 26 counties there are about 280,000, which some people consider an unreasonable number, although these are probably wrong.

That can't be right. What's the population of the 6 counties? 1.5 million? If you take away children and retirees, there can't be much over 1 million of a workforce. How can 28% of them be public servants?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2014, 01:06:41 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2014, 12:42:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 22, 2014, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 22, 2014, 08:17:26 PM
They've done nothing in the north, they've stopped nothing. They've just passed the cuts destined for welfare onto the other departments. They also joined the DUP in passing the Public Service Pension Bill - http://socialistpartyni.net/workplace/assembly-politicians-savage-workers-pensions/#.VCB1QytdWKw

The most striking thing about that link is that it states that there are 250,000 public servants in NI! In the 26 counties there are about 280,000, which some people consider an unreasonable number, although these are probably wrong.

That can't be right. What's the population of the 6 counties? 1.5 million? If you take away children and retirees, there can't be much over 1 million of a workforce. How can 28% of them be public servants?

"For Q4 2013, Northern Ireland has the highest public sector employment as a percentage of total employment (27.9%) followed by Wales (24.0%) and then Scotland (22.1%). England had the lowest percentage in public sector employment (17.4%)." (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/compendiums/compendium-of-uk-statistics/economy/index.html)

Now Public Sector is a bit broader than Public Service, but not that much, gas, electricity etc in NI are privatised, maybe things like Translink?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on September 23, 2014, 01:17:56 PM
The british government did a better job of decentralising the civil service than was managed by the Dublin centric one in the 26 counties, with some services done for the entire UK processed here in NI, a bit like Swansea doing all the car taxation, registrations, licensing and so on.

IIRC the vast majority of Passports are issued either from Belfast or Liverpool for the whole of the UK.

Our cheaper labour rates than in Great Britian helps and probably skews that high percentage of 29%.

Granted there's a fair few wasters in public services in the North at all levels.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2014, 01:24:05 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 23, 2014, 01:17:56 PM
The british government did a better job of decentralising the civil service than was managed by the Dublin centric one in the 26 counties, with some services done for the entire UK processed here in NI, a bit like Swansea doing all the car taxation, registrations, licensing and so on.
Quote

They didn't really, most of these jobs only got as far as Belfast.

QuoteOur cheaper labour rates than in Great Britian helps and probably skews that high percentage of 29%.

Are these public jobs paid at a similar low rate?


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on September 23, 2014, 01:28:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 23, 2014, 12:20:36 PM
Thats another isuue, far too many especially in the health service. I stand by my original remarks, nothing anyone has posted has altered my belief.

Far too many in the health service? Far too many managers maybe, certainly not far too many front line staff. You been in an ED recently?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on September 23, 2014, 01:28:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 23, 2014, 01:24:05 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 23, 2014, 01:17:56 PM
The british government did a better job of decentralising the civil service than was managed by the Dublin centric one in the 26 counties, with some services done for the entire UK processed here in NI, a bit like Swansea doing all the car taxation, registrations, licensing and so on.
Quote

They didn't really, most of these jobs only got as far as Belfast.

QuoteOur cheaper labour rates than in Great Britian helps and probably skews that high percentage of 29%.

Are these public jobs paid at a similar low rate?

Public service workers in the North would on average be paid 10% less than equivalent positions in Great Britain from some of the stats I've seen in the not too distant past.
This is due to our lower cost of living allegedly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 23, 2014, 01:31:22 PM
How does Shinnernomics plan to pay for everything?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 23, 2014, 02:37:24 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on September 23, 2014, 01:28:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 23, 2014, 12:20:36 PM
Thats another isuue, far too many especially in the health service. I stand by my original remarks, nothing anyone has posted has altered my belief.

Far too many in the health service? Far too many managers maybe, certainly not far too many front line staff. You been in an ED recently?
thats what Imeant to many non frontline staff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 24, 2014, 03:30:53 PM
to avoid messing up the Border Poll thread which seems to have turned into a Sinn Féin thread -
SF "are the only party that will restore Roscommon A & E" they tell us.
They didn't add how it would be paid for unfortunately  :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 24, 2014, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2014, 03:30:53 PM
to avoid messing up the Border Poll thread which seems to have turned into a Sinn Féin thread -
SF "are the only party that will restore Roscommon A & E" they tell us.
They didn't add how it would be paid for unfortunately  :-\
Wasn't Bairbre DeBrun health minister in the north when the decision was taken to close acute services in Omagh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on September 25, 2014, 07:41:22 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 24, 2014, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2014, 03:30:53 PM
to avoid messing up the Border Poll thread which seems to have turned into a Sinn Féin thread -
SF "are the only party that will restore Roscommon A & E" they tell us.
They didn't add how it would be paid for unfortunately  :-\
Wasn't Bairbre DeBrun health minister in the north when the decision was taken to close acute services in Omagh?

She was and she replaced it with new South West Acute Hospital in Enniskillen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 25, 2014, 08:04:48 AM
Quote from: Ulick on September 25, 2014, 07:41:22 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 24, 2014, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2014, 03:30:53 PM
to avoid messing up the Border Poll thread which seems to have turned into a Sinn Féin thread -
SF "are the only party that will restore Roscommon A & E" they tell us.
They didn't add how it would be paid for unfortunately  :-\
Wasn't Bairbre DeBrun health minister in the north when the decision was taken to close acute services in Omagh?

She was and she replaced it with new South West Acute Hospital in Enniskillen.
Yes, it also replaced the Erne. It was part of the rationalisation of acute services. No different to what has happened in the south. Why would SF support re-opening an A&E in Roscommon but not Omagh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: barryqwalsh on September 25, 2014, 08:06:25 AM
Look at Scotland, 45% voted for independence and no violence. "No Padre Pio Jobs", no "Armed Struggle", nobody killed or maimed for life. Irish nationalists would have achieved a lot more if they choose peaceful policies. You can't bomb people into agreeing with you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on September 25, 2014, 08:14:40 AM
Quote from: barryqwalsh on September 25, 2014, 08:06:25 AM
Look at Scotland, 45% voted for independence and no violence. "No Padre Pio Jobs", no "Armed Struggle", nobody killed or maimed for life. Irish nationalists would have achieved a lot more if they choose peaceful policies. You can't bomb people into agreeing with you.

Away back to your building society there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 25, 2014, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: barryqwalsh on September 25, 2014, 08:06:25 AM
Look at Scotland, 45% voted for independence and no violence. "No Padre Pio Jobs", no "Armed Struggle", nobody killed or maimed for life. Irish nationalists would have achieved a lot more if they choose peaceful policies. You can't bomb people into agreeing with you.
Christ almighty, do some research on the North post partition til the ceasefires before you come out with simplistic shit like that. Uncomfortable as it is for me, and many nationalists like me, no IRA campaign would have meant no equality...look at what happened when liberal unionists accepted Sunningdale.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on September 25, 2014, 10:02:37 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 25, 2014, 08:04:48 AM
Yes, it also replaced the Erne. It was part of the rationalisation of acute services. No different to what has happened in the south. Why would SF support re-opening an A&E in Roscommon but not Omagh?

Because there is a Roscommon By-Election coming up?

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: oakleafgael on September 25, 2014, 10:17:46 AM
Quote from: Ulick on September 25, 2014, 07:41:22 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 24, 2014, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2014, 03:30:53 PM
to avoid messing up the Border Poll thread which seems to have turned into a Sinn Féin thread -
SF "are the only party that will restore Roscommon A & E" they tell us.
They didn't add how it would be paid for unfortunately  :-\
Wasn't Bairbre DeBrun health minister in the north when the decision was taken to close acute services in Omagh?

She was and she replaced it with new South West Acute Hospital in Enniskillen.

A fine lot of use that is too for anyone living on the far side of Omagh. Over an hour to an A&E, would be safer ringing for the undertaker rather than the ambulance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 25, 2014, 11:03:39 AM
Quote from: barryqwalsh on September 25, 2014, 08:06:25 AM
Look at Scotland, 45% voted for independence and no violence. "No Padre Pio Jobs", no "Armed Struggle", nobody killed or maimed for life. Irish nationalists would have achieved a lot more if they choose peaceful policies. You can't bomb people into agreeing with you.
Aye and the World began in 1968.
Would ya ever grow up FFS!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 25, 2014, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on September 25, 2014, 10:02:37 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 25, 2014, 08:04:48 AM
Yes, it also replaced the Erne. It was part of the rationalisation of acute services. No different to what has happened in the south. Why would SF support re-opening an A&E in Roscommon but not Omagh?

Because there is a Roscommon By-Election coming up?

/Jim.
Clearly. There's not a hope of the A&E re-opening, regardless of who is elected. Anyone who votes for an opposition party on the basis of such 'promises' needs a reality check.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on September 26, 2014, 08:33:04 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on September 25, 2014, 08:14:40 AM
Quote from: barryqwalsh on September 25, 2014, 08:06:25 AM
Look at Scotland, 45% voted for independence and no violence. "No Padre Pio Jobs", no "Armed Struggle", nobody killed or maimed for life. Irish nationalists would have achieved a lot more if they choose peaceful policies. You can't bomb people into agreeing with you.

Away back to your building society there.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on September 26, 2014, 09:36:03 AM
Quote from: barryqwalsh on September 25, 2014, 08:06:25 AM
Look at Scotland, 45% voted for independence and no violence. "No Padre Pio Jobs", no "Armed Struggle", nobody killed or maimed for life. Irish nationalists would have achieved a lot more if they choose peaceful policies. You can't bomb people into agreeing with you.

oh dear God ::)

yet when they had a sniff with 2 weeks to go the the establishment et al flicked the switch and mass propaganda campaign was bombarded through all media outlets. The brits are dirty this time they were clean dirty. Great news this week that them oil reserves that f*cked off on holiday 2 weeks ago have come back and the future i suddenly rosy again
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on October 03, 2014, 12:57:47 AM
Johnny Powell writing speeches for Gerry ?. Was he not able or trusted enough to write them himself. Choreography all the way home wherever home is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 04, 2014, 04:40:50 PM
Anyone know what this is about: http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation (http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 04, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 04:40:50 PM
Anyone know what this is about: http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation (http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation)

There was a fake twitter from Paul Murphy saying he was deliberately telling lies about SF on water charges just to get elected.Mary Lou it on Facebook but when she discovered it was awake she has sinceut up a post to Paul and apologised.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 04, 2014, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 04, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 04:40:50 PM
Anyone know what this is about: http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation (http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation)

There was a fake twitter from Paul Murphy saying he was deliberately telling lies about SF on water charges just to get elected.Mary Lou it on Facebook but when she discovered it was awake she has sinceut up a post to Paul and apologised.
I don't understand a word of that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 04, 2014, 06:30:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 04, 2014, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 04, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 04:40:50 PM
Anyone know what this is about: http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation (http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation)

There was a fake twitter from Paul Murphy saying he was deliberately telling lies about SF on water charges just to get elected.Mary Lou it on Facebook but when she discovered it was awake she has sinceut up a post to Paul and apologised.
I don't understand a word of that.

Sorry,Paul Murphy who is the AAA candidate in the Dublin by election has been spreading the lie that SF are not anti water charges.Today a fake twitter reportedly from him saying that he was deliberately spreading the lie to get elected.Mary Lou had put this false twitter up on Facebook but when she discovered  it was false she apologised to Paul.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 04, 2014, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 04, 2014, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 04, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 04:40:50 PM
Anyone know what this is about: http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation (http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation)

There was a fake twitter from Paul Murphy saying he was deliberately telling lies about SF on water charges just to get elected.Mary Lou it on Facebook but when she discovered it was awake she has sinceut up a post to Paul and apologised.
I don't understand a word of that.
A SF supporter posted up a screenshot of a 'conversation' he purported to have had with Murphy on Facebook, where Murphy was suggesting that SF may well be sincere on water charges, and essentially he was doing what he had to do to try to get elected. The screenshot was tweeted by Mary Lou and Lynn Boylan, and the usual host of SF fanboys that swarm Twitter. It was then found to be a fake and they nearly all deleted it, some apologising and others not. While it's hard to see SF losing DSW, Murphy's campaign does seem to have jolted them somewhat, considering their promises regarding water charges last week and the posters put up about it. Then this smear job is planted to try to undermine Murphy. It says a lot about SF, while they can produce a positive campaign, if under pressure or looking unlikely to succeed the smears begin, and they have enough willing idiots active on social media to facilitate it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 04, 2014, 07:36:03 PM
Brings back memories of that tweet in the Presidential election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 02:01:04 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 04, 2014, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 04, 2014, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 04, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 04:40:50 PM
Anyone know what this is about: http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation (http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation)

There was a fake twitter from Paul Murphy saying he was deliberately telling lies about SF on water charges just to get elected.Mary Lou it on Facebook but when she discovered it was awake she has sinceut up a post to Paul and apologised.
I don't understand a word of that.
A SF supporter posted up a screenshot of a 'conversation' he purported to have had with Murphy on Facebook, where Murphy was suggesting that SF may well be sincere on water charges, and essentially he was doing what he had to do to try to get elected. The screenshot was tweeted by Mary Lou and Lynn Boylan, and the usual host of SF fanboys that swarm Twitter. It was then found to be a fake and they nearly all deleted it, some apologising and others not. While it's hard to see SF losing DSW, Murphy's campaign does seem to have jolted them somewhat, considering their promises regarding water charges last week and the posters put up about it. Then this smear job is planted to try to undermine Murphy. It says a lot about SF, while they can produce a positive campaign, if under pressure or looking unlikely to succeed the smears begin, and they have enough willing idiots active on social media to facilitate it.

Arsehole
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on October 05, 2014, 08:46:34 AM
SF election machine was always very good and is getting better. This sort of thing has gone historically with a lot of political parties. At least SF and Mary Lou apologised.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 05, 2014, 08:50:10 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 02:01:04 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 04, 2014, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 04, 2014, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 04, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2014, 04:40:50 PM
Anyone know what this is about: http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation (http://www.paulmurphy2014.com/sinn_fein_dirty_tricks_circulation_of_fake_facebook_conversation)

There was a fake twitter from Paul Murphy saying he was deliberately telling lies about SF on water charges just to get elected.Mary Lou it on Facebook but when she discovered it was awake she has sinceut up a post to Paul and apologised.
I don't understand a word of that.
A SF supporter posted up a screenshot of a 'conversation' he purported to have had with Murphy on Facebook, where Murphy was suggesting that SF may well be sincere on water charges, and essentially he was doing what he had to do to try to get elected. The screenshot was tweeted by Mary Lou and Lynn Boylan, and the usual host of SF fanboys that swarm Twitter. It was then found to be a fake and they nearly all deleted it, some apologising and others not. While it's hard to see SF losing DSW, Murphy's campaign does seem to have jolted them somewhat, considering their promises regarding water charges last week and the posters put up about it. Then this smear job is planted to try to undermine Murphy. It says a lot about SF, while they can produce a positive campaign, if under pressure or looking unlikely to succeed the smears begin, and they have enough willing idiots active on social media to facilitate it.

Arsehole
I'll give you some credit in assuming that Connolly House didn't provide you with that one word reply. Though speaking of willing idiots....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 05, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
glens abu is as willing an idiot as you will get
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 11:39:36 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 05, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
glens abu is as willing an idiot as you will get

Ha ha,Martin Og allow you to post again or is it Dee now who gives you the orders.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 05, 2014, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 11:39:36 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 05, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
glens abu is as willing an idiot as you will get

Ha ha,Martin Og allow you to post again or is it Dee now who gives you the orders.
Ah the old "Martin Og" thing again. Are you even old enough to vote?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 02:43:48 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 05, 2014, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 11:39:36 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 05, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
glens abu is as willing an idiot as you will get

Ha ha,Martin Og allow you to post again or is it Dee now who gives you the orders.
Ah the old "Martin Og" thing again. Are you even old enough to vote?

Directed that to Saffrongael,but if the cap fits.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 06, 2014, 10:18:01 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 02:43:48 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 05, 2014, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 11:39:36 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 05, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
glens abu is as willing an idiot as you will get

Ha ha,Martin Og allow you to post again or is it Dee now who gives you the orders.
Ah the old "Martin Og" thing again. Are you even old enough to vote?

Directed that to Saffrongael,but if the cap fits.
Nothing to do with me, don't know who this Martin Og character is, not as versed in the Belfast republican spats as others, but that is your default response to anything he ever posts where he is being critical of your cult of any nature, it's quite predictable by now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 06, 2014, 11:19:40 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 06, 2014, 10:18:01 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 02:43:48 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 05, 2014, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 11:39:36 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 05, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
glens abu is as willing an idiot as you will get

Ha ha,Martin Og allow you to post again or is it Dee now who gives you the orders.
Ah the old "Martin Og" thing again. Are you even old enough to vote?

Directed that to Saffrongael,but if the cap fits.
Nothing to do with me, don't know who this Martin Og character is, not as versed in the Belfast republican spats as others, but that is your default response to anything he ever posts where he is being critical of your cult of any nature, it's quite predictable by now.

Well if you don't know anything about it you shoul keep your snout out of it.Martin Og and Dee head up his cult, but sure the Shinners the only ones allowed to be insulted.You would be better just commenting on subjects you know about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 07, 2014, 09:12:29 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 06, 2014, 11:19:40 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 06, 2014, 10:18:01 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 02:43:48 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 05, 2014, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 11:39:36 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 05, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
glens abu is as willing an idiot as you will get

Ha ha,Martin Og allow you to post again or is it Dee now who gives you the orders.
Ah the old "Martin Og" thing again. Are you even old enough to vote?

Directed that to Saffrongael,but if the cap fits.
Nothing to do with me, don't know who this Martin Og character is, not as versed in the Belfast republican spats as others, but that is your default response to anything he ever posts where he is being critical of your cult of any nature, it's quite predictable by now.

Well if you don't know anything about it you shoul keep your snout out of it.Martin Og and Dee head up his cult, but sure the Shinners the only ones allowed to be insulted.You would be better just commenting on subjects you know about.
Well maybe you might at least enlighten us as to who these people are and what group they represent, RSF, Eirigi, RNU, 32CSM etc. rather than being so dismissive. Incidentally the shinners might get insulted, but you and your buddies haven't exactly been behind the door in giving it out about other parties, as indeed other parties often get slated by a variety of posters here for one reason or another, the difference being few here see themselves as obliged to act to defend those parties since its a GAA forum and most people post here because of that, and even if a few may have certain affinities towards a party, they aren't so wrapped up in the cult mentality as shinners like you are that they feel they have to throw out retorts to even the mildest criticism of the party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 07, 2014, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 07, 2014, 09:12:29 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 06, 2014, 11:19:40 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 06, 2014, 10:18:01 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 02:43:48 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 05, 2014, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 05, 2014, 11:39:36 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 05, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
glens abu is as willing an idiot as you will get

Ha ha,Martin Og allow you to post again or is it Dee now who gives you the orders.
Ah the old "Martin Og" thing again. Are you even old enough to vote?

Directed that to Saffrongael,but if the cap fits.
Nothing to do with me, don't know who this Martin Og character is, not as versed in the Belfast republican spats as others, but that is your default response to anything he ever posts where he is being critical of your cult of any nature, it's quite predictable by now.

Well if you don't know anything about it you shoul keep your snout out of it.Martin Og and Dee head up his cult, but sure the Shinners the only ones allowed to be insulted.You would be better just commenting on subjects you know about.
Well maybe you might at least enlighten us as to who these people are and what group they represent, RSF, Eirigi, RNU, 32CSM etc. rather than being so dismissive. Incidentally the shinners might get insulted, but you and your buddies haven't exactly been behind the door in giving it out about other parties, as indeed other parties often get slated by a variety of posters here for one reason or another, the difference being few here see themselves as obliged to act to defend those parties since its a GAA forum and most people post here because of that, and even if a few may have certain affinities towards a party, they aren't so wrapped up in the cult mentality as shinners like you are that they feel they have to throw out retorts to even the mildest criticism of the party.

Sure I wasn't talking to you I was answering Saffrongael and he knows the people I am talking about.I will throw out retorts to whoever I like and will not wait on your permission to do so,now go and inform yourself about subjects you want to stick you nose into before commenting on them. :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:03:12 PM
An absolute cracker of a performance from Phil Flanagan on Nolan. Clueless isn't the word - absolutely ripped to shreds. Well worth a listen. You'll either laugh or cry, depending on your particular allegiances.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jm00z (near the start of the programme)
The thing is, he was actually on the right side of the argument. It should have been like scoring into an open net. Yet he managed to made a total mess of it. A real insight into how well SF is on top of the detail.

SF has also been caught bluffing on their welfare stats, quoting a NICVA report and claiming that welfare reform will take £750m out of welfare. NICVA has come out and said that over £500m of that has already been taken out and that SF is reporting on historic figures. So either SF is bluffing, or their politicians genuinely don't understand.

Then there was Maeve McLaughlin on GMU this morning on the abortion issue, unwilling or unable to give a straight answer to the interviewer on the party's position - caught between the more liberal party in the south, and playing to the 'catholic' vote in the north. SF really lacking the courage of their convictions on this one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 08, 2014, 10:52:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:03:12 PM
An absolute cracker of a performance from Phil Flanagan on Nolan. Clueless isn't the word - absolutely ripped to shreds. Well worth a listen. You'll either laugh or cry, depending on your particular allegiances.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jm00z (near the start of the programme)
The thing is, he was actually on the right side of the argument. It should have been like scoring into an open net. Yet he managed to made a total mess of it. A real insight into how well SF is on top of the detail.

SF has also been caught bluffing on their welfare stats, quoting a NICVA report and claiming that welfare reform will take £750m out of welfare. NICVA has come out and said that over £500m of that has already been taken out and that SF is reporting on historic figures. So either SF is bluffing, or their politicians genuinely don't understand.

Then there was Maeve McLaughlin on GMU this morning on the abortion issue, unwilling or unable to give a straight answer to the interviewer on the party's position - caught between the more liberal party in the south, and playing to the 'catholic' vote in the north. SF really lacking the courage of their convictions on this one.
SF like most political parties on this Island have a couple of clever guys and a lot of stupid eejits elected on the back of parish pump politics and Flanagan is one of these. We don't get able people entering politics here as a rule because of the uncertainty in employment terms. Perhaps time north and south to have a list system where parties can bring in people not reliant on support for local issues to get the over the line in an election. Another solution is to drastically reduce the size of the assembly to widen out the constituencies thus avoiding people getting elected on single localised issues. Although a list would be best.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on October 08, 2014, 11:00:33 AM
Too true. Look at the new minister for health. An inbred from kilkeel who believes the world was created 2000 years ago. Just like the last minister for health. Clowns running the place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haveaharp on October 08, 2014, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:03:12 PM
An absolute cracker of a performance from Phil Flanagan on Nolan. Clueless isn't the word - absolutely ripped to shreds. Well worth a listen. You'll either laugh or cry, depending on your particular allegiances.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jm00z (near the start of the programme)
The thing is, he was actually on the right side of the argument. It should have been like scoring into an open net. Yet he managed to made a total mess of it. A real insight into how well SF is on top of the detail.

SF has also been caught bluffing on their welfare stats, quoting a NICVA report and claiming that welfare reform will take £750m out of welfare. NICVA has come out and said that over £500m of that has already been taken out and that SF is reporting on historic figures. So either SF is bluffing, or their politicians genuinely don't understand.

Then there was Maeve McLaughlin on GMU this morning on the abortion issue, unwilling or unable to give a straight answer to the interviewer on the party's position - caught between the more liberal party in the south, and playing to the 'catholic' vote in the north. SF really lacking the courage of their convictions on this one.

Would the abortion issue not be up to the individual rather than a party stance ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on October 08, 2014, 11:08:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01SF has also been caught bluffing on their welfare stats, quoting a NICVA report and claiming that welfare reform will take £750m out of welfare. NICVA has come out and said that over £500m of that has already been taken out and that SF is reporting on historic figures. So either SF is bluffing, or their politicians genuinely don't understand.

Politicians on this island place little value on facts, everything is how you feel about something and spin.
That said Fat Nolan's claims to be in support of fact and accuracy is risible, given the crap he features.


Quote from: charlieTully on October 08, 2014, 11:00:33 AM
Too true. Look at the new minister for health. An inbred from kilkeel who believes the world was created 2000 years ago. Just like the last minister for health. Clowns running the place.

In fairness, if you were in the DUP in Kilkeel you wouldn't see much evidence for evolution around you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 08, 2014, 02:52:58 PM
SF's stance on abortion is at odds with their stance on all other social issues. I would think that McLaughlin may well be pro choice but must toe the expedient party line which does not want to alienate the right wing catholic element of their support. That said I personally would waver between pro choice dependant on circumstances and support for an unborn child. difficult issue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 08, 2014, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:03:12 PM
An absolute cracker of a performance from Phil Flanagan on Nolan. Clueless isn't the word - absolutely ripped to shreds. Well worth a listen. You'll either laugh or cry, depending on your particular allegiances.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jm00z (near the start of the programme)
The thing is, he was actually on the right side of the argument. It should have been like scoring into an open net. Yet he managed to made a total mess of it. A real insight into how well SF is on top of the detail.

SF has also been caught bluffing on their welfare stats, quoting a NICVA report and claiming that welfare reform will take £750m out of welfare. NICVA has come out and said that over £500m of that has already been taken out and that SF is reporting on historic figures. So either SF is bluffing, or their politicians genuinely don't understand.

Then there was Maeve McLaughlin on GMU this morning on the abortion issue, unwilling or unable to give a straight answer to the interviewer on the party's position - caught between the more liberal party in the south, and playing to the 'catholic' vote in the north. SF really lacking the courage of their convictions on this one.

100% Flanagan was awful on Nolan but more a case of him not being over the brief rather than lying,think later Maskey can on and cleared this up.Regarding SF policy on abortion it is very simple.SF are against abortion  on demand and against the 1967 act being approved in the North.They agree on the woman's  right to choose were her life is in danger and also in the case incest or rape.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 08, 2014, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on October 08, 2014, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:03:12 PM
An absolute cracker of a performance from Phil Flanagan on Nolan. Clueless isn't the word - absolutely ripped to shreds. Well worth a listen. You'll either laugh or cry, depending on your particular allegiances.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jm00z (near the start of the programme)
The thing is, he was actually on the right side of the argument. It should have been like scoring into an open net. Yet he managed to made a total mess of it. A real insight into how well SF is on top of the detail.

SF has also been caught bluffing on their welfare stats, quoting a NICVA report and claiming that welfare reform will take £750m out of welfare. NICVA has come out and said that over £500m of that has already been taken out and that SF is reporting on historic figures. So either SF is bluffing, or their politicians genuinely don't understand.

Then there was Maeve McLaughlin on GMU this morning on the abortion issue, unwilling or unable to give a straight answer to the interviewer on the party's position - caught between the more liberal party in the south, and playing to the 'catholic' vote in the north. SF really lacking the courage of their convictions on this one.

Would the abortion issue not be up to the individual rather than a party stance ?
SF don't do individual opinions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 08, 2014, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2014, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on October 08, 2014, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:03:12 PM
An absolute cracker of a performance from Phil Flanagan on Nolan. Clueless isn't the word - absolutely ripped to shreds. Well worth a listen. You'll either laugh or cry, depending on your particular allegiances.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jm00z (near the start of the programme)
The thing is, he was actually on the right side of the argument. It should have been like scoring into an open net. Yet he managed to made a total mess of it. A real insight into how well SF is on top of the detail.

SF has also been caught bluffing on their welfare stats, quoting a NICVA report and claiming that welfare reform will take £750m out of welfare. NICVA has come out and said that over £500m of that has already been taken out and that SF is reporting on historic figures. So either SF is bluffing, or their politicians genuinely don't understand.

Then there was Maeve McLaughlin on GMU this morning on the abortion issue, unwilling or unable to give a straight answer to the interviewer on the party's position - caught between the more liberal party in the south, and playing to the 'catholic' vote in the north. SF really lacking the courage of their convictions on this one.

Would the abortion issue not be up to the individual rather than a party stance ?
SF don't do individual opinions.

Well you can have your own opinion but if you are speaking on behalf of the party you tow the party line.As it should be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on October 10, 2014, 09:33:47 AM
Some craic this Sinn Féin thread, especially the first few pages. Imagine where they'd be now if they'd got rid of that liability Adams.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 10, 2014, 03:51:56 PM
Have to put this somewhere -
Didn't give any preferences to FF/FG/Lab/SF today in the Ros/Sth Laythrum By Election.
Voted for 4 of the Independents ( Ignored Crosby - an ex FF b***x and O'Boyle - a one trick pony ranter).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 11, 2014, 09:40:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 22, 2014, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 22, 2014, 08:17:26 PM
They've done nothing in the north, they've stopped nothing. They've just passed the cuts destined for welfare onto the other departments. They also joined the DUP in passing the Public Service Pension Bill - http://socialistpartyni.net/workplace/assembly-politicians-savage-workers-pensions/#.VCB1QytdWKw

The most striking thing about that link is that it states that there are 250,000 public servants in NI! In the 26 counties there are about 280,000, which some people consider an unreasonable number, although these are probably wrong.
Just spotted on BBC, the current figure is 212,000.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2014, 12:04:38 PM
One wonders what all of these 212000 do?Things like social services, ambulances eta do not seem overstaffed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mourne Rover on October 11, 2014, 12:08:35 PM
Charlie Tully, the new health minister is definitely not an `in-bred from Kilkeel.' He may be a resident of the town but he comes from Moira.

He is also unlikely to believe that the world began 2,000 years ago, as that would mean it did not exist when Jesus was born. Creationists usually maintain that the Earth is around 6,000 years old.

However, we can probably agree that his term of office is unlikely to be dull.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on October 11, 2014, 03:13:58 PM
Paul Murphy running Sinn Fein very close in Dublin South West in what would be a shock if he won
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on October 11, 2014, 04:59:08 PM
Low turnout may do for Shinners. Still not transfer friendly, looks like Murphy is going to squeeze through
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 11, 2014, 05:27:35 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 10, 2014, 09:33:47 AM
Some craic this Sinn Féin thread, especially the first few pages. Imagine where they'd be now if they'd got rid of that liability Adams.
Maybe with another TD?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on October 11, 2014, 06:17:22 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on October 11, 2014, 12:08:35 PM
Charlie Tully, the new health minister is definitely not an `in-bred from Kilkeel.' He may be a resident of the town but he comes from Moira.

He is also unlikely to believe that the world began 2,000 years ago, as that would mean it did not exist when Jesus was born. Creationists usually maintain that the Earth is around 6,000 years old.

However, we can probably agree that his term of office is unlikely to be dull.

I stand corrected MR. Apologies if you are from Kilkeel.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 11, 2014, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 11, 2014, 05:27:35 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 10, 2014, 09:33:47 AM
Some craic this Sinn Féin thread, especially the first few pages. Imagine where they'd be now if they'd got rid of that liability Adams.
Maybe with another TD?

How?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2014, 08:23:18 PM
Bad day for SF. Did okish in Ros/Laythrum but  I think a lot of the Laythrums voted on County loyalty basis so boosting his vote.
But that Dublin constituency is the sort of place they've been sailing in over the recent past yet they were beaten by a Loony Leftie.
Protest vote and being against everything is all very well but when it defects to a bigger protestor and more against everythinger ...... :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 11, 2014, 08:35:44 PM
Yeah very disappointing alright,even though we topped the poll had hoped we would have been well ahead that the transfers from FF,FG and Labour to the AAA would not have mattered.having said that happy enough with the vote in R/l so all will just have to regroup and move on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2014, 10:02:29 PM
There won't be a Ros/S Leit next time and SF already have a TD in North Leitrim/Sligo so I expect Kenny's chance is gone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 11, 2014, 11:00:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2014, 10:02:29 PM
There won't be a Ros/S Leit next time and SF already have a TD in North Leitrim/Sligo so I expect Kenny's chance is gone.
Colreavy mightn't go on again so Kenny could take over from him, they have noone of substance in Sligo so would have to look to him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: getevennotcross on October 11, 2014, 11:07:41 PM
I heard this last night in my local hostelry

Tis well I do remember
That bleak April day (1998)
When Martin, Gerry and cohorts
Signed our constitutional rights away

They signed upon the dotted line
A sight, thought never to be seen
And all because of the guarantee
They'd get their shillings from the Queen

(Traitors all)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2014, 11:12:34 PM
Way past your bedtime childeen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 11, 2014, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2014, 08:23:18 PM
Bad day for SF. Did okish in Ros/Laythrum but  I think a lot of the Laythrums voted on County loyalty basis so boosting his vote.
But that Dublin constituency is the sort of place they've been sailing in over the recent past yet they were beaten by a Loony Leftie.
Protest vote and being against everything is all very well but when it defects to a bigger protestor and more against everythinger ...... :-\

You're proud of your anti-SF stance, your prerogative. Numpty.

It says something in Dublin SW when the Blueshirts push an AAA candidate (out-and-out leftie) over the line, though it exposes nothing more than their fear of SF's strength.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 11, 2014, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 11, 2014, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2014, 08:23:18 PM
Bad day for SF. Did okish in Ros/Laythrum but  I think a lot of the Laythrums voted on County loyalty basis so boosting his vote.
But that Dublin constituency is the sort of place they've been sailing in over the recent past yet they were beaten by a Loony Leftie.
Protest vote and being against everything is all very well but when it defects to a bigger protestor and more against everythinger ...... :-\

You're proud of your anti-SF stance, your prerogative. Numpty.

It says something in Dublin SW when the Blueshirts push an AAA candidate (out-and-out leftie) over the line, though it exposes nothing more than their fear of SF's strength.
Seen the Shinners spinning that line (easier than accepting blame themselves for not getting more of their votes out I guess) this evening, whilst ignoring the fact they got almost 1000 votes off FG & dissident FG (McMahon), while Murphy got 1850, hardly a staggering difference in their transfer rate, though enough obviously enough to tip the seat over to Murphy, while in something that SF would be quite familiar with, over 60% of the FG/diss FG vote didn't transfer to either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 11, 2014, 11:54:31 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 11, 2014, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 11, 2014, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2014, 08:23:18 PM
Bad day for SF. Did okish in Ros/Laythrum but  I think a lot of the Laythrums voted on County loyalty basis so boosting his vote.
But that Dublin constituency is the sort of place they've been sailing in over the recent past yet they were beaten by a Loony Leftie.
Protest vote and being against everything is all very well but when it defects to a bigger protestor and more against everythinger ...... :-\

You're proud of your anti-SF stance, your prerogative. Numpty.

It says something in Dublin SW when the Blueshirts push an AAA candidate (out-and-out leftie) over the line, though it exposes nothing more than their fear of SF's strength.
Seen the Shinners spinning that line (easier than accepting blame themselves for not getting more of their votes out I guess) this evening, whilst ignoring the fact they got almost 1000 votes off FG & dissident FG (McMahon), while Murphy got 1850, hardly a staggering difference in their transfer rate, though enough obviously enough to tip the seat over to Murphy, while in something that SF would be quite familiar with, over 60% of the FG/diss FG vote didn't transfer to either.

Boo hoo! A fairly meaningless by-election (or by-elections) in the grander scheme of things I'd say, but a knock for the Shinners nonetheless, to be sure, sort of.  :P

You Blueshirts feeling it a bit doubtless, under the oul blue-hued collar?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 09:23:16 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 11, 2014, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 11, 2014, 05:27:35 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 10, 2014, 09:33:47 AM
Some craic this Sinn Féin thread, especially the first few pages. Imagine where they'd be now if they'd got rid of that liability Adams.
Maybe with another TD?

How?
By being less transfer toxic?

Or maybe by having policy that didn't "confuse" voters, as per your candidate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2014, 01:13:19 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 11, 2014, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2014, 08:23:18 PM
Bad day for SF. Did okish in Ros/Laythrum but  I think a lot of the Laythrums voted on County loyalty basis so boosting his vote.
But that Dublin constituency is the sort of place they've been sailing in over the recent past yet they were beaten by a Loony Leftie.
Protest vote and being against everything is all very well but when it defects to a bigger protestor and more against everythinger ...... :-\

You're proud of your anti-SF stance, your prerogative. Numpty.


Oh what an angry little maneen you are when things don't go your way ... ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2014, 01:13:19 PM
Oh what an angry little maneen you are when things don't go your way ... ::)

A bit OTT, apologies ;)

Not really my way as such, but no doubt that FF/FG/Lab are on a one-way ticket to a kleptocratic oligarchy at the behest of their neocon masters, where every public asset of any value will be funnelled into the hands of an obscenely wealthy few. And of which Irish Water is just the latest example, though certainly not the last. Can myriad disparate independents thwart that almost-inevitability? I doubt it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2014, 03:10:26 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2014, 01:13:19 PM
Oh what an angry little maneen you are when things don't go your way ... ::)

A bit OTT, apologies ;)

Not really my way as such, but no doubt that FF/FG/Lab are on a one-way ticket to a kleptocratic oligarchy at the behest of their neocon masters, where every public asset of any value will be funnelled into the hands of an obscenely wealthy few. And of which Irish Water is just the latest example, though certainly not the last. Can myriad disparate independents thwart that almost-inevitability? I doubt it.

This is after apologising for being OTT.  ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2014, 03:10:26 PM
This is after apologising for being OTT.  ;D

Exhibit A: how the kleptocratic oligarchs can get so cleanly away with it! :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2014, 04:05:32 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2014, 03:10:26 PM
This is after apologising for being OTT.  ;D

Exhibit A: how the kleptocratic oligarchs can get so cleanly away with it! :P

Would plutocracy be a better fit?

And the ECB were the real kleptocrats. But I really don't get why people organise protests 4 years after the event. Brian Lenihan and his useless Dept. of Finance people signed all this stuff away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 04:19:06 PM
There's a massive shift afoot in the Western world to denude the public framework of assets, and we're being sleep-walked into it, to varying degrees.The conditions,  as laid down on this State as part of the package,  are component parts. Brian Lenihan (RIP) was hopelessly incompetent.  We already have a de facto plutocracy - the strings that Denis O'Brien, for example, has his mitts on should shame the London Berlin Philharmonic into serious reappraisal. :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on October 12, 2014, 04:42:12 PM
When you get into hock you open the door to the kleptocrats and plutocrats. Those who borrow money and didn't pay it back opened the door for this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2014, 04:46:52 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 04:19:06 PM
There's a massive shift afoot in the Western world to denude the public framework of assets, and we're being sleep-walked into it, to varying degrees.The conditions,  as laid down on this State as part of the package,  are component parts. Brian Lenihan (RIP) was hopelessly incompetent.  We already have a de facto plutocracy - the strings that Denis O'Brien, for example, has his mitts on should shame the London Berlin Philharmonic into serious reappraisal. :P

We are selling assets to pay for the bank guarantee.

I am not bothered who owns them tbh as long as they are run remotely efficiently and pay their way fairly. The efficiency part is usually the public ownership iceberg, while the pay their way fairly is often where the private ownership flounders. There has to be a happy medium.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 04:49:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2014, 04:42:12 PM
When you get into hock you open the door to the kleptocrats and plutocrats. Those who borrow money and didn't pay it back opened the door for this kind of thing.

See Iceland's very recent history on how exactly to queer that particular pitch. It takes political balls and know-how though, which takes us back to the FF/FG/Lab axis, and the criminally distinct lack thereof.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 05:05:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2014, 04:46:52 PM
We are selling assets to pay for the bank guarantee.

I am not bothered who owns them...

How convenient for the neocons, but it did not and does not have to be that way!

Rather unfortunately,  we have almost universally been conditioned to accept this an inescapable fait accompli. You're happy, it seems, not only to pay a not insignificant income tax, but also to pay on top of that for basic living necessities? And I do not trust this Administration when they say there are no plans to privatise - it's at the contemporary minister's whim. Check the smallish print.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2014, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 05:05:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2014, 04:46:52 PM
We are selling assets to pay for the bank guarantee.

I am not bothered who owns them...

How convenient for the neocons, but it did not and does not have to be that way!

Rather unfortunately,  we have almost universally been conditioned to accept this an inescapable fait accompli. You're happy, it seems, not only to pay a not insignificant income tax, but also to pay on top of that for basic living necessities? And I do not trust this Administration when they say there are no plans to privatise - it's at the contemporary minister's whim. Check the smallish print.

Are you calling me a neocon? Seriously?

At the moment I pay for everyone's water. When the water charges come in, I won't pay for everyone's water. I will just pay for my family.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 10:13:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2014, 08:24:49 PM
Are you calling me a neocon? Seriously?

At the moment I pay for everyone's water. When the water charges come in, I won't pay for everyone's water. I will just pay for my family.

No no, the powers that be, wherever they be.

Ah, but this is a supplementary tax with no commensurate reduction in what you currently pay for everyone's water. Therefore you'll be paying twice, and not a problem for you personally perhaps, but it will be a real difficulty for plenty of folk.

What's general taxation for if it doesn't cover the basic necessities of life? Inordinate and extragavant use of water is a different issue, and something that could be penalised appropriately (with the new metering infrastructure), but the day-to-day volume should not be an extra cost.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 10:43:45 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 10:13:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2014, 08:24:49 PM
Are you calling me a neocon? Seriously?

At the moment I pay for everyone's water. When the water charges come in, I won't pay for everyone's water. I will just pay for my family.

No no, the powers that be, wherever they be.

Ah, but this is a supplementary tax with no commensurate reduction in what you currently pay for everyone's water. Therefore you'll be paying twice, and not a problem for you personally perhaps, but it will be a real difficulty for plenty of folk.

What's general taxation for if it doesn't cover the basic necessities of life? Inordinate and extragavant use of water is a different issue, and something that could be penalised appropriately (with the new metering infrastructure), but the day-to-day volume should not be an extra cost.
Do you think everyone should be given food, clothes and a home from general taxation too? That's a ridiculous argument.

And the reason there's no commensurate reduction in other taxes is because the country is trying to close a deficit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 10:51:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 10:43:45 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 10:13:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2014, 08:24:49 PM
Are you calling me a neocon? Seriously?

At the moment I pay for everyone's water. When the water charges come in, I won't pay for everyone's water. I will just pay for my family.

No no, the powers that be, wherever they be.

Ah, but this is a supplementary tax with no commensurate reduction in what you currently pay for everyone's water. Therefore you'll be paying twice, and not a problem for you personally perhaps, but it will be a real difficulty for plenty of folk.

What's general taxation for if it doesn't cover the basic necessities of life? Inordinate and extragavant use of water is a different issue, and something that could be penalised appropriately (with the new metering infrastructure), but the day-to-day volume should not be an extra cost.
Do you think everyone should be given food, clothes and a home from general taxation too? That's a ridiculous argument.

And the reason there's no commensurate reduction in other taxes is because the country is trying to close a deficit.

Are you being intentionally thick? Does it need to be spelled out for you that 'basic necessities' in this context relates to infrastructural necessities? Rhetorical question it would seem, and instead of pathetic straw men perhaps address the fundamental -- what's general taxation for then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 12, 2014, 11:46:03 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 10:51:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 10:43:45 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 10:13:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2014, 08:24:49 PM
Are you calling me a neocon? Seriously?

At the moment I pay for everyone's water. When the water charges come in, I won't pay for everyone's water. I will just pay for my family.

No no, the powers that be, wherever they be.

Ah, but this is a supplementary tax with no commensurate reduction in what you currently pay for everyone's water. Therefore you'll be paying twice, and not a problem for you personally perhaps, but it will be a real difficulty for plenty of folk.

What's general taxation for if it doesn't cover the basic necessities of life? Inordinate and extragavant use of water is a different issue, and something that could be penalised appropriately (with the new metering infrastructure), but the day-to-day volume should not be an extra cost.
Do you think everyone should be given food, clothes and a home from general taxation too? That's a ridiculous argument.

And the reason there's no commensurate reduction in other taxes is because the country is trying to close a deficit.

Are you being intentionally thick? Does it need to be spelled out for you that 'basic necessities' in this context relates to infrastructural necessities? Rhetorical question it would seem, and instead of pathetic straw men perhaps address the fundamental -- what's general taxation for then?

It is to take money from the most productive in society, to pay for for the most vulnerable in society, so they can re-elect the most useless in society.

PS the above refers to all the parties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 07:01:52 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 10:51:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 10:43:45 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 10:13:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2014, 08:24:49 PM
Are you calling me a neocon? Seriously?

At the moment I pay for everyone's water. When the water charges come in, I won't pay for everyone's water. I will just pay for my family.

No no, the powers that be, wherever they be.

Ah, but this is a supplementary tax with no commensurate reduction in what you currently pay for everyone's water. Therefore you'll be paying twice, and not a problem for you personally perhaps, but it will be a real difficulty for plenty of folk.

What's general taxation for if it doesn't cover the basic necessities of life? Inordinate and extragavant use of water is a different issue, and something that could be penalised appropriately (with the new metering infrastructure), but the day-to-day volume should not be an extra cost.
Do you think everyone should be given food, clothes and a home from general taxation too? That's a ridiculous argument.

And the reason there's no commensurate reduction in other taxes is because the country is trying to close a deficit.

Are you being intentionally thick? Does it need to be spelled out for you that 'basic necessities' in this context relates to infrastructural necessities? Rhetorical question it would seem, and instead of pathetic straw men perhaps address the fundamental -- what's general taxation for then?
What about other utilities then? Electricity?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 13, 2014, 10:22:46 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 07:01:52 AM
What about other utilities then? Electricity?

You said it: 'utility'. We don't perish necessarily, deprived of a utility such as electricity.

Water is more than a utility, it's an absolute necessity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Puckoon on October 13, 2014, 05:19:13 PM
Water delivered to your house is a Utility. Access to water is a necessity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 05:30:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 13, 2014, 10:22:46 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 07:01:52 AM
What about other utilities then? Electricity?

You said it: 'utility'. We don't perish necessarily, deprived of a utility such as electricity.

Water is more than a utility, it's an absolute necessity.
Eh? Water provision most definitely falls under utilities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: glens abu on October 13, 2014, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 05:30:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 13, 2014, 10:22:46 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 07:01:52 AM
What about other utilities then? Electricity?

You said it: 'utility'. We don't perish necessarily, deprived of a utility such as electricity.

Water is more than a utility, it's an absolute necessity.
Eh? Water provision most definitely falls under utilities.

Puckon kept you right there :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 13, 2014, 06:12:28 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 13, 2014, 10:22:46 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 07:01:52 AM
What about other utilities then? Electricity?

You said it: 'utility'. We don't perish necessarily, deprived of a utility such as electricity.

Water is more than a utility, it's an absolute necessity.

We get 30,000 litres a year free per household and then 21,000 litres free per child in addition.

That is 82 litres free per day per house with a lot more if you have kids. This is hardly oppressive. My house, with two kids, will have 197 litres per day free.

Even the mostest, mostest vulnerable in society should manage with that if they have to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 06:28:42 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 13, 2014, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 05:30:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 13, 2014, 10:22:46 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 07:01:52 AM
What about other utilities then? Electricity?

You said it: 'utility'. We don't perish necessarily, deprived of a utility such as electricity.

Water is more than a utility, it's an absolute necessity.
Eh? Water provision most definitely falls under utilities.

Puckon kept you right there :-[
The fact that I made reference to OTHER utilities in my initial post should have made it clear that I regarded water as such. I'm not always available to make an immediate reply.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 13, 2014, 08:04:50 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 12, 2014, 10:13:30 PM
[Ah, but this is a supplementary tax with no commensurate reduction in what you currently pay for everyone's water. Therefore you'll be paying twice,
Many are already paying twice.
People on Group Water schemes have been paying for our water all the time AND we pay the same tax as an equivalently paid town dweller getting a public water supply.
Also we pay taxes towards subsidised public transport even though we have no such luxury passing our doors.
So if subsidised people now have to pay for their use of water all i can say -- ABOUT FCUKIN TIME> ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 13, 2014, 09:37:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2014, 06:12:28 PM
We get 30,000 litres a year free per household and then 21,000 litres free per child in addition.

That is 82 litres free per day per house with a lot more if you have kids. This is hardly oppressive. My house, with two kids, will have 197 litres per day free.

Even the mostest, mostest vulnerable in society should manage with that if they have to.

It's not about oppressiveness, necessarily, more about exploitation -- and they haven't even begun yet I'd say, with this very much as the thin end of the wedge (I don't trust the free market idelogues of the IMF/ECB/EU, etc., whose opaque workings do anything but fill with confidence, witness the refusal to divulge the correspondence concerning the unsecured bondholders and Irish banks)

QED


Quote from: Rossfan on October 13, 2014, 08:04:50 PM
Many are already paying twice.
People on Group Water schemes have been paying for our water all the time AND we pay the same tax as an equivalently paid town dweller getting a public water supply.
Also we pay taxes towards subsidised public transport even though we have no such luxury passing our doors.
So if subsidised people now have to pay for their use of water all i can say -- ABOUT FCUKIN TIME> ;)

There will always be a minority, but this is about the vast majority, and give it time, public transport will be packaged up and hived off to the private sector too!  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on October 14, 2014, 02:57:13 PM
If you sink a well, do you still pay these water charges?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2014, 03:01:01 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on October 14, 2014, 02:57:13 PM
If you sink a well, do you still pay these water charges?
No only if you have a public supply - or a public sewer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 14, 2014, 08:02:03 PM
A bit of a disaster from Maskey on Nolan in relation to his welfare figures:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/10/13/nolan-reveals-a-long-standing-1-billion-error-in-sinn-feins-ni-budget-calculations/

And a black hole in SF's water charges calculation in the south:
http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/noonan-identifies-1bn-blackhole-in-sinn-feins-water-charge-claims-30653098.html
Pearse Doherty: "All of the other investment in Irish Water is already being spent by the state but it is kept of the balance sheet through accounting trickery." Maybe, but it's understanding the accounting treatment and its impact that critical surely? His response implies he doesn't understand it.

Still lacking any credibility when it comes to economics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 15, 2014, 11:13:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 14, 2014, 08:02:03 PM
A bit of a disaster from Maskey on Nolan in relation to his welfare figures:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/10/13/nolan-reveals-a-long-standing-1-billion-error-in-sinn-feins-ni-budget-calculations/

And a black hole in SF's water charges calculation in the south:
http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/noonan-identifies-1bn-blackhole-in-sinn-feins-water-charge-claims-30653098.html
Pearse Doherty: "All of the other investment in Irish Water is already being spent by the state but it is kept of the balance sheet through accounting trickery." Maybe, but it's understanding the accounting treatment and its impact that critical surely? His response implies he doesn't understand it.

Still lacking any credibility when it comes to economics.
That's an understatement, they need to recruit someone with a GCSE/Intercert in economics and fast. Too many activists at the top and not enough with sound intellectual credentials. Street cred is not enough any more.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 15, 2014, 11:57:50 PM
Is it just me or was Mary-Lou being a bit self-pitying the other day? Surely she should have known the rules of the house FFS. People get interrupted all the time by the speaker if they're not following the rules. The whole thing strikes me as a gale in a pail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 16, 2014, 10:09:22 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 13, 2014, 09:37:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 13, 2014, 06:12:28 PM
We get 30,000 litres a year free per household and then 21,000 litres free per child in addition.

That is 82 litres free per day per house with a lot more if you have kids. This is hardly oppressive. My house, with two kids, will have 197 litres per day free.

Even the mostest, mostest vulnerable in society should manage with that if they have to.

It's not about oppressiveness, necessarily, more about exploitation -- and they haven't even begun yet I'd say, with this very much as the thin end of the wedge (I don't trust the free market idelogues of the IMF/ECB/EU, etc., whose opaque workings do anything but fill with confidence, witness the refusal to divulge the correspondence concerning the unsecured bondholders and Irish banks)

QED

So your opposition to Waters charges has nothing to do with Water Charges, but is about the anticpation of the privatisation of Irish Water and other public companies?

I think Irish Water, the public version, is already in need of reform. And you mentioned public transport! That is possibly the worst possible example of state ownership.

I don't care either way regarding ownership as long as it is run properly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on October 16, 2014, 10:16:56 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on October 14, 2014, 02:57:13 PM
If you sink a well, do you still pay these water charges?

We have an old well on our land which fed a now abandoned building. Does anyone know of a Company who could test the water to see if it is worthwhile investing in a new water pack?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 17, 2014, 12:21:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 16, 2014, 10:09:22 AM
So your opposition to Waters charges has nothing to do with Water Charges, but is about the anticpation of the privatisation of Irish Water and other public companies?

Irish Water is an abomination, but glad you have such faith in it, bless. Any company, never mind a monopolistic quango, with the individuals it has, and where they have them (at the very top); and who does not pay bonuses, rather it implements a "performance related award scheme", deserves all the opprobrium that can be shovelled from a height upon it.

Quote from: muppet on October 16, 2014, 10:09:22 AM
I think Irish Water, the public version, is already in need of reform. And you mentioned public transport! That is possibly the worst possible example of state ownership.

Yes, I agree, and the pipes need fixing, sorely, but it's all in the method. My reference to public transport was in response to a reference to same.

Quote from: muppet on October 16, 2014, 10:09:22 AM
I don't care either way regarding ownership as long as it is run properly.

You're all right Jack, and I'm all right too, but there will be far too many folk that won't be all right, and who will be really pushed to the pin of their financial collars and more with this introduction -- why did the 'government' introduce the €100 (maximum) relief if the gratis amounts of water are so generous? And do you really think that if the revenue from the water charges doesn't turn a profit for this quango they won't reduce the 'free' water, and sharpish?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on October 17, 2014, 09:29:47 AM
How much are Irish Water shares ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 17, 2014, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 17, 2014, 12:21:16 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 16, 2014, 10:09:22 AM
So your opposition to Waters charges has nothing to do with Water Charges, but is about the anticpation of the privatisation of Irish Water and other public companies?

Irish Water is an abomination, but glad you have such faith in it, bless. Any company, never mind a monopolistic quango, with the individuals it has, and where they have them (at the very top); and who does not pay bonuses, rather it implements a "performance related award scheme", deserves all the opprobrium that can be shovelled from a height upon it.

Quote from: muppet on October 16, 2014, 10:09:22 AM
I think Irish Water, the public version, is already in need of reform. And you mentioned public transport! That is possibly the worst possible example of state ownership.

Yes, I agree, and the pipes need fixing, sorely, but it's all in the method. My reference to public transport was in response to a reference to same.

Quote from: muppet on October 16, 2014, 10:09:22 AM
I don't care either way regarding ownership as long as it is run properly.

You're all right Jack, and I'm all right too, but there will be far too many folk that won't be all right, and who will be really pushed to the pin of their financial collars and more with this introduction -- why did the 'government' introduce the €100 (maximum) relief if the gratis amounts of water are so generous? And do you really think that if the revenue from the water charges doesn't turn a profit for this quango they won't reduce the 'free' water, and sharpish?

This is like chasing a ping pong ball.

Is it merely that you are against creating a utility for water full stop?

As for those 'pushed to the pin of their collar'. There are numerous categories of those. Anyone who lost their jobs, or young people looking for their first jobs should be looked after.

Those who have never worked and who are nowadays of parents who never worked, I would feel differently about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 17, 2014, 03:53:08 PM
No, I am not against a utility for water, and I am not against those who would abuse the provision of such a resource being hammered financially for the extravagance.

I am against Irish Water (for reasons heretofore expressed), and I am against the the ordinary person being saddled with the bill for such a provision (also for reasons heretofore expressed).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on October 17, 2014, 07:55:59 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 17, 2014, 03:53:08 PM
No, I am not against a utility for water, and I am not against those who would abuse the provision of such a resource being hammered financially for the extravagance.

I am against Irish Water (for reasons heretofore expressed), and I am against the the ordinary person being saddled with the bill for such a provision (also for reasons heretofore expressed).

That's a clear contradiction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on October 17, 2014, 08:21:16 PM
Just out of curiosity, and you hear it from people in political life all the time now, who are these "ordinary" people ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 18, 2014, 12:50:06 AM
Quote from: Minder on October 17, 2014, 08:21:16 PM
Just out of curiosity, and you hear it from people in political life all the time now, who are these "ordinary" people ?

They are the most unfortunate people who can neither speak nor even write to a newspaper, but fortunately they have loads of people who claim to speak for them.

Not as many as 'the most vulnerable in society' though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on October 18, 2014, 01:01:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2014, 12:50:06 AM
Quote from: Minder on October 17, 2014, 08:21:16 PM
Just out of curiosity, and you hear it from people in political life all the time now, who are these "ordinary" people ?

They are the most unfortunate people who can neither speak nor even write to a newspaper, but fortunately they have loads of people who claim to speak for them.

Not as many as 'the most vulnerable in society' though.

And clearly, completely unconnected to the democratic process that elected the current government and the ones previous.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 18, 2014, 01:14:12 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 18, 2014, 01:01:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2014, 12:50:06 AM
Quote from: Minder on October 17, 2014, 08:21:16 PM
Just out of curiosity, and you hear it from people in political life all the time now, who are these "ordinary" people ?

They are the most unfortunate people who can neither speak nor even write to a newspaper, but fortunately they have loads of people who claim to speak for them.

Not as many as 'the most vulnerable in society' though.

And clearly, completely unconnected to the democratic process that elected the current government and the ones previous.

Yes, but you wouldn't know that.

Usually it is the future Government who speaks most on their behalves, until they actually get into Government.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 18, 2014, 12:47:25 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 17, 2014, 07:55:59 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 17, 2014, 03:53:08 PM
No, I am not against a utility for water, and I am not against those who would abuse the provision of such a resource being hammered financially for the extravagance.

I am against Irish Water (for reasons heretofore expressed), and I am against the the ordinary person being saddled with the bill for such a provision (also for reasons heretofore expressed).

That's a clear contradiction.

Bullshit: we pay enough general taxation, if the incompetents in power prove pathetically incapable of the provision of potable water the ordinary joe should not have to fork out for that dereliction of duty. Successive administrations have presided over an increasingly leaky network. 

Why should an efficient water utility be beyond the ken of capable and comprehensive governance?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 21, 2014, 08:19:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 10, 2014, 09:33:47 AM
Some craic this Sinn Féin thread, especially the first few pages. Imagine where they'd be now if they'd got rid of that liability Adams.
Well they wouldn't have their two best prospects - McDonald and Doherty - trying to defend things they could know nothing about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on October 21, 2014, 09:28:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 21, 2014, 08:19:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 10, 2014, 09:33:47 AM
Some craic this Sinn Féin thread, especially the first few pages. Imagine where they'd be now if they'd got rid of that liability Adams.
Well they wouldn't have their two best prospects - McDonald and Doherty - trying to defend things they could know nothing about.
I'd say you are right there!

But boy it's quite ironic ( you coming out with that)!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on October 21, 2014, 11:29:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 18, 2014, 12:47:25 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 17, 2014, 07:55:59 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 17, 2014, 03:53:08 PM
No, I am not against a utility for water, and I am not against those who would abuse the provision of such a resource being hammered financially for the extravagance.

I am against Irish Water (for reasons heretofore expressed), and I am against the the ordinary person being saddled with the bill for such a provision (also for reasons heretofore expressed).

That's a clear contradiction.

Bullshit: we pay enough general taxation, if the incompetents in power prove pathetically incapable of the provision of potable water the ordinary joe should not have to fork out for that dereliction of duty. Successive administrations have presided over an increasingly leaky network. 

Why should an efficient water utility be beyond the ken of capable and comprehensive governance?

Because no-one had to pay for one. If you don't pay road tax you can hardly complain about the state of the road. If you don't pay a TV licence (as I do) you can hardly complain about the coverage or range of transmission. If you get your water for free you can't really turn round and say that the free service you are provided with isn't up to your satisfaction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on October 21, 2014, 11:38:03 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 18, 2014, 12:47:25 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 17, 2014, 07:55:59 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 17, 2014, 03:53:08 PM
No, I am not against a utility for water, and I am not against those who would abuse the provision of such a resource being hammered financially for the extravagance.

I am against Irish Water (for reasons heretofore expressed), and I am against the the ordinary person being saddled with the bill for such a provision (also for reasons heretofore expressed).

That's a clear contradiction.

Bullshit: we pay enough general taxation, if the incompetents in power prove pathetically incapable of the provision of potable water the ordinary joe should not have to fork out for that dereliction of duty. Successive administrations have presided over an increasingly leaky network. 

Why should an efficient water utility be beyond the ken of capable and comprehensive governance?

How much do you think your first Irish water bill will be ?

I mean you, personally.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:42:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 21, 2014, 11:29:46 PM
Because no-one had to pay for one. If you don't pay road tax you can hardly complain about the state of the road. If you don't pay a TV licence (as I do) you can hardly complain about the coverage or range of transmission. If you get your water for free you can't really turn round and say that the free service you are provided with isn't up to your satisfaction.

Been here before, yawn...

Water is an essential, tarmac (asphalt, or whatever) on the road most certainly is not, and neither is television.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:47:58 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 21, 2014, 11:38:03 PM
How much do you think your first Irish water bill will be ?

I mean you, personally.

That's not my point, but it'll be somewhere around the €45 mark, apparently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 21, 2014, 11:52:01 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:42:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 21, 2014, 11:29:46 PM
Because no-one had to pay for one. If you don't pay road tax you can hardly complain about the state of the road. If you don't pay a TV licence (as I do) you can hardly complain about the coverage or range of transmission. If you get your water for free you can't really turn round and say that the free service you are provided with isn't up to your satisfaction.

Been here before, yawn...

Water is an essential, tarmac (asphalt, or whatever) on the road most certainly is not, and neither is television.

This is reasonably dealt with by giving 30,000 litres free and further 21,000 litres free for every child.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on October 21, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:47:58 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 21, 2014, 11:38:03 PM
How much do you think your first Irish water bill will be ?

I mean you, personally.

That's not my point, but it'll be somewhere around the €45 mark, apparently.

Apparently ?

Will you personally have to pay 45euros to Irish Water or not ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:58:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 21, 2014, 11:52:01 PM
This is reasonably dealt with by giving 30,000 litres free and further 21,000 litres free for every child.

Your faith is touching (ad nauseam), but you really don't, and can't have any idea what's going to happen a year or two down the line, if the Irish Water quango is turning no (or too little) profit. You'll still be billed, however, and the least you'll be liable for, allowing for the 'free' allowance, is €278.16 (assuming there are two adults in the household).


Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 21, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
Will you personally have to pay 45euros to Irish Water or not ?

Yes, I personally will be liable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on October 22, 2014, 12:00:47 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:58:18 PM
Yes, I personally will be liable.

How so ? Do you live in the republic ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 12:04:49 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 22, 2014, 12:00:47 AM
How so ? Do you live in the republic ?

Yep.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on October 22, 2014, 12:09:55 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 12:04:49 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 22, 2014, 12:00:47 AM
How so ? Do you live in the republic ?

Yep.

very interesting.

Firstly, welcome to the south.

When did Strabane (as beautiful as it is) lose it's pull on your heartstrings ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 12:12:29 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 22, 2014, 12:09:55 AM
very interesting.

Firstly, welcome to the south.

When did Strabane (as beautiful as it is) lose it's pull on your heartstrings ?

Ha! :)

Fadó, fadó, long time resident of the Capital at this stage! ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on October 22, 2014, 12:30:04 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 12:12:29 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 22, 2014, 12:09:55 AM
very interesting.

Firstly, welcome to the south.

When did Strabane (as beautiful as it is) lose it's pull on your heartstrings ?

Ha! :)

Fadó, fadó, long time resident of the Capital at this stage! ;)

Fair enough. Good to know you are one of "us"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:58:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 21, 2014, 11:52:01 PM
This is reasonably dealt with by giving 30,000 litres free and further 21,000 litres free for every child.

Your faith is touching (ad nauseam), but you really don't, and can't have any idea what's going to happen a year or two down the line, if the Irish Water quango is turning no (or too little) profit. You'll still be billed, however, and the least you'll be liable for, allowing for the 'free' allowance, is €278.16 (assuming there are two adults in the household).


Once again your muddled water argument is difficult to fathom (!).

If you are arguing that water is a necessity for life and thus no family should be denied water on cost grounds, I agree completely. Hence my point regarding 30,000 litres free per household and a further 21,000 free per child.

If you are debating the ideology of water as a utility, which it is is most other countries, then the necessity for life argument is irrelevant. Regarding the ownership ideology, as I said earlier, I don't care either way as long as it is run properly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on October 22, 2014, 02:31:20 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 22, 2014, 12:30:04 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 12:12:29 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 22, 2014, 12:09:55 AM
very interesting.

Firstly, welcome to the south.

When did Strabane (as beautiful as it is) lose it's pull on your heartstrings ?

Ha! :)

Fadó, fadó, long time resident of the Capital at this stage! ;)

Fair enough. Good to know you are one of "us"
wasn't he always?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2014, 03:23:27 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:47:58 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 21, 2014, 11:38:03 PM
How much do you think your first Irish water bill will be ?

it'll be somewhere around the €45 mark, apparently.
Ya mane oul hoor moaning about a bileen like that  :o
If you drink porther sure you'd spend more than that in a few hours in a pub in Dublin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 07:22:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2014, 03:23:27 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:47:58 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 21, 2014, 11:38:03 PM
How much do you think your first Irish water bill will be ?

it'll be somewhere around the €45 mark, apparently.
Ya mane oul hoor moaning about a bileen like that  :o
If you drink porther sure you'd spend more than that in a few hours in a pub in Dublin.

I'm not moaning about any bill, I'm all right Jack, though I resent handing it over to such a dysfunctionally disastrous shower as Irish Water.

There are more than plenty of folk who won't have the cent never mind the euro, and that's what my gripe is (muppet seems to think they don't exist); it will cause real distress for thousands of homes -- the default should be no bill at all provided that relatively generous limits are adhered to, and which should have been covered by general taxation over the last decades and years, for the upgrade of the system (which it has been crying out for, for the decades past). Those who exceed the relatively generous limits should be hit, and hit very hard financially, ie, if taps are left running, if you have your sprinkler continually on, if your five Jags need daily washing, then tough!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 07:31:14 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 07:22:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2014, 03:23:27 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 21, 2014, 11:47:58 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 21, 2014, 11:38:03 PM
How much do you think your first Irish water bill will be ?

it'll be somewhere around the €45 mark, apparently.
Ya mane oul hoor moaning about a bileen like that  :o
If you drink porther sure you'd spend more than that in a few hours in a pub in Dublin.

I'm not moaning about any bill, I'm all right Jack, though I resent handing it over to such a dysfunctionally disastrous shower as Irish Water.

There are more than plenty of folk who won't have the cent never mind the euro, and that's what my gripe is (muppet seems to think they don't exist); it will cause real distress for thousands of homes -- the default should be no bill at all provided that relatively generous limits are adhered to, and which should have been covered by general taxation over the last decades and years, for the upgrade of the system (which it has been crying out for, for the decades past). Those who exceed the relatively generous limits should be hit, and hit very hard financially, ie, if taps are left running, if you have your sprinkler continually on, if your five Jags need daily washing, then tough!

Really?

When this is what I actually wrote:
QuoteIf you are arguing that water is a necessity for life and thus no family should be denied water on cost grounds, I agree completely.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: getevennotcross on October 22, 2014, 07:34:00 PM
So the Shinners supposedly defended us from Drug pushers, Loyalist Murder gangs, joy riders and anti social elements etc, but not from their own rapists.  Why was the IRA rapist not shot in the back of the head and dumped in a field??  Hypocrites all, of the highest order.  Sinn Fein = Ourselves Alone - General Michael Collins will be turning in his grave. >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 07:49:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2014, 07:31:14 PM
When this is what I actually wrote:
QuoteIf you are arguing that water is a necessity for life and thus no family should be denied water on cost grounds, I agree completely.

Yes, that's what I'm saying, but that's not going to happen, I reckon, those who can't afford will be forced to go without, or at least as close as damned to without -- they're already threatening, not just no water, but evictions to the 30,000 RAS tenants in the State if they default on their payments, for example.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 07:49:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2014, 07:31:14 PM
When this is what I actually wrote:
QuoteIf you are arguing that water is a necessity for life and thus no family should be denied water on cost grounds, I agree completely.

Yes, that's what I'm saying, but that's not going to happen, I reckon, those who can't afford will be forced to go without, or at least as close as damned to without -- they're already threatening, not just no water, but evictions to the 30,000 RAS tenants in the State if they default on their payments, for example.

What is that about, who are RAS?

Your other argument is predicting the future. You may be right or wrong. Either way I don't any party scrapping the water allowances completely. It would be political suicide and opposition to that would be completely justified.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 08:04:08 PM
Yes, there is conjecture on my part, but the neocons in Brussels, Berlin, Strasbourg (and the Dáil) do not instil confidence, not in the least.

The RAS tenants debacle (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1016/652691-irish-water/)


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 08:24:37 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 08:04:08 PM
Yes, there is conjecture on my part, but the neocons in Brussels, Berlin, Strasbourg (and the Dáil) do not instil confidence, not in the least.

The RAS tenants debacle (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1016/652691-irish-water/)

Sinn Féin Deputy Leader Mary Lou McDonald, who had a copy of a letter from Wicklow County Council, said the Government was presiding over an absolute shambles in terms of the establishment of Irish Water.

Ms McDonald said that thousands of families do not have the money to pay for water.

She asked Tánaiste how she had authorised such a threatening letter and asked her to make it clear to those people that they would not be evicted.

In response, Ms Burton said Sinn Féin and Independents had control of Wicklow County Council.

;D ;D ;D ;D

Aside from the above, those letters shouldn't have been sent. They are quickly losing any credibility which will not help them out of their self-dug holes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2014, 08:24:37 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 08:04:08 PM
Yes, there is conjecture on my part, but the neocons in Brussels, Berlin, Strasbourg (and the Dáil) do not instil confidence, not in the least.

The RAS tenants debacle (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1016/652691-irish-water/)

Sinn Féin Deputy Leader Mary Lou McDonald, who had a copy of a letter from Wicklow County Council, said the Government was presiding over an absolute shambles in terms of the establishment of Irish Water.

Ms McDonald said that thousands of families do not have the money to pay for water.

She asked Tánaiste how she had authorised such a threatening letter and asked her to make it clear to those people that they would not be evicted.

In response, Ms Burton said Sinn Féin and Independents had control of Wicklow County Council.

;D ;D ;D ;D

Aside from the above, those letters shouldn't have been sent. They are quickly losing any credibility which will not help them out of their self-dug holes.

I saw that Dáil exchange, and Burton came across as one smug, condescending git. She was wrong, however, in that the (Wicklow) council had no choice but to execute the orders of her (Burton's) department.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 10:59:06 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2014, 08:24:37 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 08:04:08 PM
Yes, there is conjecture on my part, but the neocons in Brussels, Berlin, Strasbourg (and the Dáil) do not instil confidence, not in the least.

The RAS tenants debacle (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1016/652691-irish-water/)

Sinn Féin Deputy Leader Mary Lou McDonald, who had a copy of a letter from Wicklow County Council, said the Government was presiding over an absolute shambles in terms of the establishment of Irish Water.

Ms McDonald said that thousands of families do not have the money to pay for water.

She asked Tánaiste how she had authorised such a threatening letter and asked her to make it clear to those people that they would not be evicted.

In response, Ms Burton said Sinn Féin and Independents had control of Wicklow County Council.

;D ;D ;D ;D

Aside from the above, those letters shouldn't have been sent. They are quickly losing any credibility which will not help them out of their self-dug holes.

I saw that Dáil exchange, and Burton came across as one smug, condescending git. She was wrong, however, in that the (Wicklow) council had no choice but to execute the orders of her (Burton's) department.

A year before the issue arose?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 22, 2014, 10:59:52 PM
Could someone please explain to Gerry Adams what "refute" actually means
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 11:01:13 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 22, 2014, 10:59:52 PM
Could someone please explain to Gerry Adams what "refute" actually means

And 'member' while he is at it.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 11:01:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2014, 10:59:06 PM
A year before the issue arose?

Yes, apparently so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 11:03:10 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 11:01:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2014, 10:59:06 PM
A year before the issue arose?

Yes, apparently so.

Were they instructed to write the letters?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 11:13:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2014, 11:03:10 PM
Were they instructed to write the letters?

It looks like Wicklow Council were being proactively pre-emptive, and it looks like they shouldn't have become involved at all.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-water-councils-to-stay-out-of-tenants-billing-disputes-1.1966840
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 11:20:59 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 22, 2014, 11:13:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2014, 11:03:10 PM
Were they instructed to write the letters?

It looks like Wicklow Council were being proactively pre-emptive, and it looks like they shouldn't have become involved at all.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-water-councils-to-stay-out-of-tenants-billing-disputes-1.1966840

A local blunder then. I often wonder whether these are solo runs by individual idiots or does a gang of fools gee themselves up for a spectacular failure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on October 23, 2014, 07:56:36 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/this-was-not-leaders-questions-as-we-know-it-it-was-an-unprecedented-situation-in-the-d%C3%A1il-1.1973438

QuoteNot so long ago, in a troubled place they called the Six County Statelet, decent IRA volunteers indiscriminately murdered in a futile attempt to unite the country they love. But their hearts were in the right place. And that's good enough for Gerry Adams, who is sad to see their revered names being sullied now by people who don't understand.

These IRA volunteers had so much love for Ireland they shunted their favoured perverts and paedophiles across the North's border to the rest of the country they claim to love. Oh, and they shot the ones they didn't need to protect.

Decent people. Adams – the IRA's Boswell – says he wasn't a member, yet is remarkably intimate with the organisation's inner workings; he won't hear a bad word uttered against them. As he said yesterday, these volunteers "were acting, in my opinion, in good faith" when seeking "to deal with some cases of abuse when asked to do so by families and victims".

Good faith is not how Maíria Cahill would see it. Yesterday's extraordinary session of Leaders' Questions took place right after the Taoiseach met the Belfast woman who says she was raped by an IRA man and then sworn to secrecy by senior members of that organisation who took it upon themselves to "interrogate" her over a number of months to test the validity of her claims. At one point, three of them also forced her to meet her rapist during a "kangaroo court". She says she met Gerry Adams in his office in west Belfast and told him her story. Adams, his deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald and the rest of the Sinn Féin parliamentary party accept that she was raped, but not the rest of her testimony.

Maíria Cahill hasn't deviated one bit from her version of events. The Gerry Adams/Sinn Féin version has subtly shifted from almost blanket denial to a revised state of knowledge.

...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2014, 10:57:43 AM
Amazing how little comment on this harrowing subject has appeared on this thread  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on October 23, 2014, 11:02:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2014, 10:57:43 AM
Amazing how little comment on this harrowing subject has appeared on this thread  :o

Harrowing? You are on the wrong thread, you need the pitch grass thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 23, 2014, 07:37:13 PM
One thing I can't get straight - SF has been pushing the point that the people being accused were "found innocent", yet at the same time saying they believed Ms Cahill was raped, and I understand now also accepting that she was subject to a "kangaroo court".

How do you square that circle? Are they saying that the judicial process failed to reach the right conclusion, or just that they had the wrong individuals?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on October 24, 2014, 08:14:35 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 23, 2014, 07:37:13 PM
One thing I can't get straight - SF has been pushing the point that the people being accused were "found innocent", yet at the same time saying they believed Ms Cahill was raped, and I understand now also accepting that she was subject to a "kangaroo court".

How do you square that circle? Are they saying that the judicial process failed to reach the right conclusion, or just that they had the wrong individuals?

They were found innocent because she refused to testify.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on October 24, 2014, 01:04:16 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 24, 2014, 08:14:35 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 23, 2014, 07:37:13 PM
One thing I can't get straight - SF has been pushing the point that the people being accused were "found innocent", yet at the same time saying they believed Ms Cahill was raped, and I understand now also accepting that she was subject to a "kangaroo court".

How do you square that circle? Are they saying that the judicial process failed to reach the right conclusion, or just that they had the wrong individuals?

They were found innocent because she refused to testify.

Did she ever give a reason why she refused to testify?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 01, 2014, 06:11:11 PM
While people are cursing the Shinners in the 6 counties because they have had to govern, in the 26 hurling on the ditch has paid off.
---------------

A new opinion poll shows Sinn Féin is now the most popular political party in the country.

The Millward Brown poll for the Sunday Independent shows they have increased their support, excluding "don't knows", to 26%.

Fine Gael stands at 22%, Fianna Fáil 20%, Labour is at 7% and Independents and Others at 23%.

The poll was carried out over the past 10 days with nearly 1,000 people interviewed.

The party support for first preferences, excluding "don't knows", compared to the last opinion poll in September, shows Fine Gael down 3% to 22, Fianna Fáil down one to 20%, Sinn Féin up 4 to 26%, Labour down two from 9 to 7%, with Independents staying the same at 23%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 10:08:59 PM
Pity there wasn't a general election now - SF would be in government. Strange poll considering the pressure SF have been under.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mrdeeds on November 01, 2014, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 10:08:59 PM
Pity there wasn't a general election now - SF would be in government. Strange poll considering the pressure SF have been under.

Why would they be in government? Wouldn't have a majority. Who would form an alliance with them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 11:50:06 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 01, 2014, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 10:08:59 PM
Pity there wasn't a general election now - SF would be in government. Strange poll considering the pressure SF have been under.

Why would they be in government? Wouldn't have a majority. Who would form an alliance with them?

You'd be surprised who might join up with them. In politics, anything can happen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on November 02, 2014, 12:13:50 AM
Hard to believe FF are @ 20% after bankrupting the country
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 02, 2014, 12:40:15 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 02, 2014, 12:13:50 AM
Hard to believe FF are @ 20% after bankrupting the country
It would be bamkrupt in a week if the shinners were running the show.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mrdeeds on November 02, 2014, 12:46:17 AM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 11:50:06 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 01, 2014, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 10:08:59 PM
Pity there wasn't a general election now - SF would be in government. Strange poll considering the pressure SF have been under.

Why would they be in government? Wouldn't have a majority. Who would form an alliance with them?

You'd be surprised who might join up with them. In politics, anything can happen.

As you say anything can happen. But it is doubtful if FF FG or Lab would join with them leaving it very difficult for them to form a government. Socialist TDs probably would but who else?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sidney on November 02, 2014, 12:55:15 AM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 10:08:59 PM
Pity there wasn't a general election now - SF would be in government. Strange poll considering the pressure SF have been under.
It isn't strange at all. Every Sindo/Denis O'Brien media/FG attack on SF reinforces SF's support.

The media and politicians exist in their own little bubble and can't grasp the fact that people zone out every time they go after SF. Enda Kenny is like the boy who cried wolf - his attacks on SF have been so constant and so transparent that they aren't taken seriously. In fact I'm going to make a load of money this Christmas from my new invention - a talking Enda Kenny doll. You pull a cord out from the doll and it repeats "Jean McConville, Jean McConville, Jean McConville..." or "Were you in the IRA?, Were you in the IRA?, Were you in the IRA?.." until the cord winds itself back in. Ones manufactured from this week on will also feature the doll saying "Mairia Cahill, Mairia Cahill, Mairia Cahill..."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 02, 2014, 08:46:17 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2014, 01:11:40 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 02, 2014, 12:46:17 AM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 11:50:06 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 01, 2014, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 10:08:59 PM
Pity there wasn't a general election now - SF would be in government. Strange poll considering the pressure SF have been under.

Why would they be in government? Wouldn't have a majority. Who would form an alliance with them?

You'd be surprised who might join up with them. In politics, anything can happen.

As you say anything can happen. But it is doubtful if FF FG or Lab would join with them leaving it very difficult for them to form a government. Socialist TDs probably would but who else?
FFS even the DUP join them up here. Power is key, even if it means buddying up with big bad Sinn Fein. They'd all be lining up with their dicks out, make no mistake about it.
Surely you appreciate the difference between a voluntary coalition and a mandatory one?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 02, 2014, 08:48:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 10:08:59 PM
Pity there wasn't a general election now - SF would be in government. Strange poll considering the pressure SF have been under.
It might be very entertaining if they were in government now, if only to see how many policies they would actually reverse, and how they'd pay to do so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on November 02, 2014, 10:36:33 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2014, 08:48:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 10:08:59 PM
Pity there wasn't a general election now - SF would be in government. Strange poll considering the pressure SF have been under.
It might be very entertaining if they were in government now, if only to see how many policies they would actually reverse, and how they'd pay to do so.

It would be funny alright SF trying to balance their policy in the South considering the cuts that the DUP and SF have signed up to this week. The crack will only start for them in the South when SF get into government.

I'm not being critical of them - they're a fully fledged political party and power is everything. HS is right about other parties lining up to join them, even if HS has a different and blunt way of describing it.  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on November 02, 2014, 11:15:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2014, 06:11:11 PM
While people are cursing the Shinners in the 6 counties because they have had to govern, in the 26 hurling on the ditch has paid off.
---------------

A new opinion poll shows Sinn Féin is now the most popular political party in the country.

The Millward Brown poll for the Sunday Independent shows they have increased their support, excluding "don't knows", to 26%.

Fine Gael stands at 22%, Fianna Fáil 20%, Labour is at 7% and Independents and Others at 23%.

The poll was carried out over the past 10 days with nearly 1,000 people interviewed.

The party support for first preferences, excluding "don't knows", compared to the last opinion poll in September, shows Fine Gael down 3% to 22, Fianna Fáil down one to 20%, Sinn Féin up 4 to 26%, Labour down two from 9 to 7%, with Independents staying the same at 23%.

by cutting services for the most vulnerable in society but shelling out millions in pension plans for  managers and 35 million in bonus' for consultants, for operating a health and social care board along side a department of health when the two do the same f**king thing. the medical director in the southern trust is in tune for a £1.4 million pension pot, for what amounts to a token post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on November 07, 2014, 09:42:08 AM
Gerry calls on Americans to home for the anniversary and have another Rising which prompts a huge cheer and loads of $. SF very popular in USA.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/adams-rounds-on-critics-at-500-a-head-ny-fundraiser-1.1992058
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2014, 08:16:47 PM
He also drew the wrath of the Independent News and Media at that same dinner. Can anybody tell me if Michael Collins actually did go into the Independent's offices and pull the trigger back in the day? The Sindo claims it's lies. And the Indo have been carping non-stop about it all week.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2014, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2014, 08:16:47 PM
He also drew the wrath of the Independent News and Media at that same dinner. Can anybody tell me if Michael Collins actually did go into the Independent's offices and pull the trigger back in the day? The Sindo claims it's lies. And the Indo have been carping non-stop about it all week.

The indo is a rag that isn't fit to line the cats litter box. Sick of the agenda they have been following in recent times. The Irish Times is the same. Loyal to their masters and serving their agendas.
Their responsibility is to provide the public with facts, not a soapbox for individuals to push their own thoughts on to the public.

That can't happen when you aren't 'independent'. Feed the masses with your spin and hope they swallow it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on November 11, 2014, 09:18:43 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2014, 09:42:08 AM
Gerry calls on Americans to home for the anniversary and have another Rising which prompts a huge cheer and loads of $. SF very popular in USA.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/adams-rounds-on-critics-at-500-a-head-ny-fundraiser-1.1992058

What is it with Armagh men and measuring popularity from a single cheer?  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 13, 2014, 04:09:29 PM
Mary-Lou acting the bollix
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dail-suspended-as-mary-lou-refuses-to-leave-chamber-650910.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2014, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 13, 2014, 04:09:29 PM
Mary-Lou acting the bollix
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dail-suspended-as-mary-lou-refuses-to-leave-chamber-650910.html
She'll leave at the first meal time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:21:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2014, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 13, 2014, 04:09:29 PM
Mary-Lou acting the bollix
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dail-suspended-as-mary-lou-refuses-to-leave-chamber-650910.html
She'll leave at the first meal time.

You should be ashamed of yourself for that comment. Such snide attacks should be reserved for those who truly deserve it, like rape victims.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 08:13:46 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:21:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2014, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 13, 2014, 04:09:29 PM
Mary-Lou acting the bollix
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dail-suspended-as-mary-lou-refuses-to-leave-chamber-650910.html
She'll leave at the first meal time.

You should be ashamed of yourself for that comment. Such snide attacks should be reserved for those who truly deserve it, like rape victims.


What's the Cahill case got to do with southern politics?

It's transparent enough that Kenny, Martin etc are clinging to this case to save their political lives (and bonuses/pensions/expenses)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 13, 2014, 10:57:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 08:13:46 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:21:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2014, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 13, 2014, 04:09:29 PM
Mary-Lou acting the bollix
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dail-suspended-as-mary-lou-refuses-to-leave-chamber-650910.html
She'll leave at the first meal time.

You should be ashamed of yourself for that comment. Such snide attacks should be reserved for those who truly deserve it, like rape victims.


What's the Cahill case got to do with southern politics?

It's transparent enough that Kenny, Martin etc are clinging to this case to save their political lives (and bonuses/pensions/expenses)
How very partitionist of you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 13, 2014, 10:59:27 PM
Nothing, just we're all wondering if the rapists in the ranks were moved 'down here'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:44:25 PM
Once again, SF students totally mis-judge the mood of fellow students, first in Belfast with its failed (and utterly pointless) referendum on Irish unity, and now in Derry, trying to rename Magee.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/ulster-university-students-vote-by-a-landslide-to-reject-changing-magee-campus-name-30755990.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on November 19, 2014, 11:01:07 PM
Why oh why have they done this in the first place?

Try getting a fecking GAA pitch at Magee would be a better try.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 11:27:45 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 19, 2014, 11:01:07 PM
Why oh why have they done this in the first place?

Try getting a fecking GAA pitch at Magee would be a better try.
I don't understand the problem with Magee myself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bailestil on November 20, 2014, 01:49:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 11:27:45 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 19, 2014, 11:01:07 PM
Why oh why have they done this in the first place?

Try getting a fecking GAA pitch at Magee would be a better try.
I don't understand the problem with Magee myself.

Sums up SF nicely in Derry. More worried about the name than the fact Magee has been left to ruin by their executive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 20, 2014, 02:48:03 PM
The renaming of magee is the least of their worries...time to name a leader with credibility.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on November 20, 2014, 09:51:32 PM
Baile Stil, ye have agreed with me I think three times this year? what is going on?

what ye reckon the poem.............

         http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25268.15       (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25268.15)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on November 20, 2014, 11:35:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2014, 08:46:17 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2014, 01:11:40 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 02, 2014, 12:46:17 AM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 11:50:06 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 01, 2014, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 01, 2014, 10:08:59 PM
Pity there wasn't a general election now - SF would be in government. Strange poll considering the pressure SF have been under.

Why would they be in government? Wouldn't have a majority. Who would form an alliance with them?

You'd be surprised who might join up with them. In politics, anything can happen.

As you say anything can happen. But it is doubtful if FF FG or Lab would join with them leaving it very difficult for them to form a government. Socialist TDs probably would but who else?
FFS even the DUP join them up here. Power is key, even if it means buddying up with big bad Sinn Fein. They'd all be lining up with their dicks out, make no mistake about it.
Surely you appreciate the difference between a voluntary coalition and a mandatory one?
When political  power is in question, voluntary becomes mandatory.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 21, 2014, 01:11:09 AM
Eventuallly, according to the polls, Sinn Fein will become the main party in the south but nobody trusts them at the moment. They still have too much baggage.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omaghjoe on November 21, 2014, 04:59:57 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 21, 2014, 01:11:09 AM
Eventuallly, according to the polls, Sinn Fein will become the main party in the south but nobody trusts them at the moment. They still have too much baggage.

Weirdly enough no one trusts them in the North either and I mean people that vote for them.

Its quite a strange state of affairs really, the majority of Sinn Fein supporters wouldn't want to be associated with them in the slightest because of their baggage, they just see that a vote for them is the best way of sticking it to the prods and brits.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on November 21, 2014, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 21, 2014, 04:59:57 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 21, 2014, 01:11:09 AM
Eventuallly, according to the polls, Sinn Fein will become the main party in the south but nobody trusts them at the moment. They still have too much baggage.

Weirdly enough no one trusts them in the North either and I mean people that vote for them.

Its quite a strange state of affairs really, the majority of Sinn Fein supporters wouldn't want to be associated with them in the slightest because of their baggage, they just see that a vote for them is the best way of sticking it to the prods and brits.

Or that the other options are self serving, pathetic gobshites in both 'parliaments'.

Did some FG TD not say yesterday that some water charge protestors were as bad as ISIS FFS?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on November 21, 2014, 09:52:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 21, 2014, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 21, 2014, 04:59:57 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 21, 2014, 01:11:09 AM
Eventuallly, according to the polls, Sinn Fein will become the main party in the south but nobody trusts them at the moment. They still have too much baggage.

Weirdly enough no one trusts them in the North either and I mean people that vote for them.

Its quite a strange state of affairs really, the majority of Sinn Fein supporters wouldn't want to be associated with them in the slightest because of their baggage, they just see that a vote for them is the best way of sticking it to the prods and brits.

Or that the other options are self serving, pathetic gobshites in both 'parliaments'.

Did some FG TD not say yesterday that some water charge protestors were as bad as ISIS FFS?



Ah yeah, but he is from Tipp.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 27, 2014, 08:34:49 PM
 ;)

An Phoblacht - 5 September 2013


SINN FÉIN'S Chief Whip in the Assembly has called for tighter control of payments to and by politicians, party funding and donations to parties, and the employment of relatives by elected reps.

CaitríonaRuane
The call by Caitríona Ruane MLA (left) comes in the wake of the shock resignation on Wednesday evening of SDLP MLA Conall McDevitt over a £6,750 payment he received in 2010 from PR company Weber Shandwick without declaring it.

Conall McDevitt – who unsuccessfully challenged Alasdair McDonnell for the SDLP leadership in 2011 but was still regarded as one of the SDLP's high-flyers and a possible future leader – himself described the non-declaration as "a serious breach" of the MLA code.

"My failure to register these interests at the time means that I have fallen below the standards of expected of me in public office," the SDLP figure said, resigning "with immediate effect".

His resignation comes after revelations that a company owned by his wife had received thousands of pounds over the past two years for research working for him in his roles in the Assembly and the Policing Board.

Sinn Féin Chief Whip Caitríona Ruane MLA said on Thursday:

"Elected representatives have a duty to maintain high standards in carrying out their roles and responsibilities.   

"There is a clear need for increased transparency right across the political spectrum with respect to payments to and by politicians, and party funding in general, including donations to parties.   

"Anything less undermines trust in the political process and the credibility of the political institutions.

"The use of public funds by MLAs to employ family members or commission services from companies in which they or family members have an interest is unacceptable and should cease.

"If parties or individual MLAs are not prepared to abide by the correct standards then the rules which govern party financing should be strengthened to make it mandatory that they do so.

"And the rules on transparency should also be amended to require parties to declare who party donors are. There should be no secret donations.

"A refusal by some within the political process to adhere to proper standards tarnishes the entire political process and feeds mistrust.

"We need to confront this refusal if we are to restore and protect the integrity of the political process."

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 27, 2014, 08:40:39 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 21, 2014, 09:52:10 AM
Did some FG TD not say yesterday that some water charge protestors were as bad as ISIS FFS?



Ah yeah, but he is from Tipp.
[/quote]

As another Tipp TD said " Sure everyone knows ya drive better after a few pints"!
I see SF were upsetting the "can coal yer" in the Dáil again today.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on December 01, 2014, 12:28:46 AM
Gerry threatened again by the loyalists according to his Twitter.

And the war is supposed to be over. Have they no respect at all ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2014, 11:19:58 AM
Are all the SF supporters shocked into silence over the impending cuts in the North(East) or what?  :o
Not a mention of the latest two polls putting them up there at the top of the pile in the 26 Cos.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on December 22, 2014, 11:12:34 PM
Shinners no different to the rest of them

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/sinn-fein-expenses-row-caral-ni-chuilin-forgot-to-say-she-paid-relative-11320-30855261.html

BY CIARAN BARNES – 22 DECEMBER 2014

Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin paid her partner's brother thousands of pounds of taxpayers' cash for decorating her office - but repeatedly failed to declare the relationship in Stormont's register of interests.

Sunday Life can reveal that since 2009, the Sinn Fein heavyweight has handed over £11,320 from her office cost expenditure budget to John 'JJ' Magee to decorate her north Belfast office.

Following Sunday Life's revelation, Sinn Fein last night issued a statement saying the minister's failure to declare the family link was an "administrative oversight".

Magee, a joiner by trade who is also a serving Sinn Fein councillor, also received more than £55,000 of taxpayers' cash from other Sinn Fein MLAs for similar work.

He is the brother of Mrs Ni Chuilin's common-law husband Gerard Magee, a Sinn Fein press officer.

But she repeatedly failed to declare this on the Assembly's Register of Interests which state that any relationship by "blood, marriage, or partnership equivalent to marriage" has to be noted.

Section 12 of the register states: "In this section Members should register any family members who benefit directly or indirectly in any way from Office Cost Expenditure."

Her Sinn Fein colleague Fra McCann for example declared on the register than he employed a niece of party colleagues Paul and Alex Maskey as his PA.

However, Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin answered "none" on several occasions when asked to list family members who benefit directly or indirectly in any way from her office cost expenditure.

In response to Sunday Life's questions about her failure to say her partner's brother benefited from her office expenditure, Sinn Fein said last night: "This was an administration oversight and one that will be rectified.

"The party has declared publicly that a range of necessary maintenance and refurbishment work on Teach Carney and other Sinn Féin offices has been carried out by JJ Magee and by his construction company over many years.


"The work carried out was to a high standard and represented good value for money and has facilitated Sinn Féin in providing first-class accessible constituency services."

A Sunday Life investigation into JJ Magee's Assembly business contracts show that not only was he paid £11,320 by Caral Ni Chuilin, he pocketed a total of £68,000 of public funds from Sinn Fein over five years.

When we attempted to question the Belfast city councillor about this he told us to "ring the press office" before hanging up the phone.

For the past five years building firm boss JJ Magee has been Sinn Fein's go-to man when it needs construction jobs done at its offices across Belfast.

In 2011 he unsuccessfully stood for election to the Assembly as a Sinn Fein candidate in north Belfast.

But despite failing to make it to Stormont a busy Magee still reaped £68,000 of public funds paid to him by the party.

Sinn Fein's first recorded payment to the joiner-turned politician was in 2009.

That was when Caral Ni Chuilin, who is effectively his sister-in-law, coughed up £5,080 for decorating work at her Antrim Road office.

In 2011 five Sinn Fein MLAs - Paul Maskey, Jennifer McCann, Sue Ramsey, Pat Sheehan and Paul Butler - paid JJ Magee a total of £27,775 for renovations and maintenance.

He was raking it in again during 2012, receiving £15,750 from Gerry Kelly (left), Caral Ni Chuilin, Jennifer McCann and Sue Ramsey for painting and cleaning.

In 2013 Gerry Kelly, Caral Ni Chuilin, Fra McCann, Jennifer McCann, Sue Ramsey and Pat Sheehan paid Magee £11,176 for similar work.

So far this year he has pocketed a further £8,153 from Fra McCann, Rosie McCorley, Pat Sheehan and Sue Ramsey for painting and electrical work.

All of the 31 registered Assembly payments to Magee, which cover five years, were made in the five week period between March 27 and May 1.

Since 2009 he has received £16,560 solely for work carried out at Sinn Fein's north Belfast office at 291 Antrim Road. The two-storey town house is used by both Caral Ni Chuilin and Gerry Kelly.

Sunday Life's revelations about Caral Ni Chuilin's failure to declare she was employing a family member to do work, is the latest expenses controversy to engulf Sinn Fein of late.

Last month BBC's Spotlight programme revealed that the party had paid a research company run by its own finance managers, called Research Services Ireland (RSI), £700,000 of public funds.

One Sinn Féin MLA was reported to have said they had never heard of the company until they saw it on their annual expenses.

It further emerged that Sinn Fein was claiming thousands of pounds in office rent costs on buildings owned by three different cultural societies to which the party has strong links.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on December 23, 2014, 10:27:51 AM
Another deadline looming.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on December 23, 2014, 03:20:50 PM
Thank God. A settlement has been reached and the money tap has been turned back on. Happy Christmas and a very prosperous New Year to all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on December 23, 2014, 03:24:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on December 23, 2014, 03:20:50 PM
Thank God. A settlement has been reached and the money tap has been turned back on. Happy Christmas and a very prosperous New Year to all.

Aye money tap in the form of loans that have to be paid back ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on December 23, 2014, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 23, 2014, 03:24:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on December 23, 2014, 03:20:50 PM
Thank God. A settlement has been reached and the money tap has been turned back on. Happy Christmas and a very prosperous New Year to all.

Aye money tap in the form of loans that have to be paid back ?

We'll pay the first few payments and then review the loan conditions thereafter.   ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on December 23, 2014, 04:06:53 PM
What a relief, those constituency offices won't refurbish themselves!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on December 23, 2014, 04:25:32 PM
Plenty of quangos and commissions, all the SF/DUP mates will be getting a nice wee gig on those
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2014, 05:07:04 PM
Enough of an agreement to ensure the politicians continue in the manner to which they have become accustomed, nothing of substance on parades, flags and the past. A committee here, a quango there, reports due back sometime in the far blue yonder. Twaddell probably wasn't even mentioned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on December 23, 2014, 06:43:12 PM
Lookks like for all Sinn Feins posturing on Welfare Reform they lay down
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 23, 2014, 08:09:14 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 23, 2014, 06:43:12 PM
Lookks like for all Sinn Feins posturing on Welfare Reform they lay down
They have enough in the pot to keep their many hangers on in a job/back-handers. Now if we could get Caral to a hairdresser that would be public money well spent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on December 23, 2014, 08:13:25 PM
Tax breaks for the rich businesses from the pockets of the poor and a blind eye turned to our real issues.  But hey the gravy train will keep on rolling and the MLA noses will be further entrenched deep in ripping us taxpayers off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 23, 2014, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 23, 2014, 08:09:14 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 23, 2014, 06:43:12 PM
Lookks like for all Sinn Feins posturing on Welfare Reform they lay down
They have enough in the pot to keep their many hangers on in a job/back-handers. Now if we could get Caral to a hairdresser that would be public money well spent.

She should ask Arlene Foster for her stylists number.

Looking forward to Santa bringing me my "Ladies of Stormont 2015" pin up calendar. Arlene is Miss July. Super Hot.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on December 23, 2014, 08:40:42 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 23, 2014, 08:09:14 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 23, 2014, 06:43:12 PM
Lookks like for all Sinn Feins posturing on Welfare Reform they lay down
They have enough in the pot to keep their many hangers on in a job/back-handers. Now if we could get Caral to a hairdresser that would be public money well spent.

Problem is she would say the haircut cost her £3k and JJ Magee was her hairdresser
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 23, 2014, 09:39:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 23, 2014, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 23, 2014, 08:09:14 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 23, 2014, 06:43:12 PM
Lookks like for all Sinn Feins posturing on Welfare Reform they lay down
They have enough in the pot to keep their many hangers on in a job/back-handers. Now if we could get Caral to a hairdresser that would be public money well spent.

She should ask Arlene Foster for her stylists number.

Looking forward to Santa bringing me my "Ladies of Stormont 2015" pin up calendar. Arlene is Miss July. Super Hot.
As Nick Ross used to say on Crimewatch "Don't have nightmares, do sleep well'  :'(

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 24, 2014, 09:54:57 PM
Still don't seem to be able to see any detail on what the deal actually is? How did SF 'protect the vulnerable' within less money than under the current welfare system? Will anyone have their welfare cut? If so, who, and by how much?

The rest of the agreement seems to be the establishment of quangos and kicking the can down the road on a few difficult issues.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on December 25, 2014, 12:41:59 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 24, 2014, 09:54:57 PM
Still don't seem to be able to see any detail on what the deal actually is? How did SF 'protect the vulnerable' within less money than under the current welfare system? Will anyone have their welfare cut? If so, who, and by how much?

The rest of the agreement seems to be the establishment of quangos and kicking the can down the road on a few difficult issues.

Kicking the can down the road is right. There'll be more deadlines and through the night negotiations. They can spin away. Truth is there'll be a lot of public servants on pension schemes in the best few years, a smaller public sector and less folk on the good old DLA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mrdeeds on December 25, 2014, 11:13:30 AM
Ex Sinn Fein councillor stabbed in Cavan by her ex IRA member husband. He served time for killing a guard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on January 23, 2015, 12:50:13 PM
Sinn Fein are complaining about being Classed as British but feel left out about a British debate with British political groups about a British election.

I'm lost here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 23, 2015, 12:57:48 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 25, 2014, 11:13:30 AM
Ex Sinn Fein councillor stabbed in Cavan by her ex IRA member husband. He served time for killing a guard.

Patriot.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 23, 2015, 12:59:33 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 23, 2015, 12:50:13 PM
Sinn Fein are complaining about being Classed as British but feel left out about a British debate with British political groups about a British election.

I'm lost here.
So are the Shinners, becoming more light the stoops and Fine Gael as the days move on. They'll be taking the oath next and sitting in the mother of Parliaments.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 23, 2015, 01:00:55 PM
I think they know that they will not be in the debate but they are just rubbin the DUP's NOSE IN IT.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 23, 2015, 01:02:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 23, 2015, 12:50:13 PM
Sinn Fein are complaining about being Classed as British but feel left out about a British debate with British political groups about a British election.

I'm lost here.

At least they don't need an actor to dub their voices anymore. That would have livened up the debate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on January 23, 2015, 01:03:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 23, 2015, 12:59:33 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 23, 2015, 12:50:13 PM
Sinn Fein are complaining about being Classed as British but feel left out about a British debate with British political groups about a British election.

I'm lost here.
So are the Shinners, becoming more light the stoops and Fine Gael as the days move on. They'll be taking the oath next and sitting in the mother of Parliaments.

Na, I think the stoops are becoming more like the Shinners each passing day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on January 23, 2015, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2015, 01:02:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 23, 2015, 12:50:13 PM
Sinn Fein are complaining about being Classed as British but feel left out about a British debate with British political groups about a British election.

I'm lost here.

At least they don't need an actor to dub their voices anymore. That would have livened up the debate.

Told a few younger lads in their 20s about that over in England here, they couldn't believe it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on January 23, 2015, 01:09:54 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 23, 2015, 01:04:45 PM
Told a few younger lads in their 20s about that over in England here, they couldn't believe it.

Not that it's possible, but it's an entertaining thought exercise to imagine yourself explaining to an 80/90's Shinner what they eventually came to accept. They wouldn't believe it either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 23, 2015, 01:12:56 PM
Unsurprisingly SF are in favour of the proposal in Belfast City Council to use revenue gathered by  rates to fund political parties, under the guise of having extra  "research" to do.......

Everyone should have to face cutbacks and do more with less, except SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 23, 2015, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: deiseach on January 23, 2015, 01:09:54 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 23, 2015, 01:04:45 PM
Told a few younger lads in their 20s about that over in England here, they couldn't believe it.

Not that it's possible, but it's an entertaining thought exercise to imagine yourself explaining to an 80/90's Shinner what they eventually came to accept. They wouldn't believe it either.

Still funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6UhXivPyw4
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on January 23, 2015, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 23, 2015, 02:35:02 PM
Still funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6UhXivPyw4

Even funnier when you realise that Shinners only get half the joke.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 23, 2015, 07:56:26 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 23, 2015, 01:12:56 PM
Unsurprisingly SF are in favour of the proposal in Belfast City Council to use revenue gathered by  rates to fund political parties, under the guise of having extra  "research" to do.......

Everyone should have to face cutbacks and do more with less, except SF
The people's party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 23, 2015, 08:37:19 PM
Council plans to fund political parties from ratepayers' money

Belfast City Council is considering using ratepayers' money to directly fund political parties to the tune of £175,000 a year, the News Letter can reveal.

In what would be an unprecedented move for a Northern Ireland council, money collected via the rates — which most people assume is used to pay for services such as bin collections, leisure facilities and the upkeep of parks — would be paid directly into political parties.

Sinn Fein, which appears to be the strongest supporter of the proposal, linked the move to the additional powers being given to councils under the reorganisation of local government — despite the fact that that process was meant to save ratepayers money.

Over the four-year term of the council, political parties would collectively receive £700,000 under the plan, at a time when the public sector is apparently under unprecedented financial strain.

The Alliance Party has now come forward to condemn the proposal, something which it said would make City Hall more like a mini-Stormont, with the political money being used to employ the equivalent of 'special advisers (Spads)'.

Stormont has 19 Spads, who are each paid up to £90,000 a year.

The proposal is referred to in a report for the strategic policy and resources committee of the shadow council (which is about to take over running the enlarged council area) as it considers the level of the rates for next year.

The draft budget set out — which has yet to be approved by councillors — says: "The draft estimates include growth of £175k for political assistance. This will be used to the work of party groups and not individual members."

Alliance councillor Michael Long said that at a recent meeting where the issue was discussed he was the only councillor to argue against the proposal.

"Given the fact that the news has been full of budget cuts and potential job losses I assumed that this idea would have been dropped," he said.

"I am therefore amazed to see that when the council is trying to cut its cloth to meet the new economic circumstances, that £175,000 has been included in this year's budget for what many may describe as Spads for City Hall.

"Alliance will be opposing this proposal as we want to see ratepayers' money being focussed on providing frontline services for ratepayers and not on providing support for parties."

Sinn Fein's group leader on the council, Jim McVeigh, defended the proposal.

"We're in favour of it," he said, pointing out that with 19 councillors Sinn Fein "do need some research support to manage the team".

Councillor McVeigh highlighted that the new councils are taking on additional responsibilities such as control of planning applications (councillors' allowances have been increased as a result) and that he envisaged the money being used to pay for research, administrative support and policy advice.

When asked if he could understand why many members of the public may prefer to see funding for frontline services rather than political parties — particularly against a backdrop of austerity — Cllr McVeigh insisted that Belfast City Council is not making any budget cuts.

"We're not making any cuts — in fact the council intends to strike a zero rate for a second year in a row...we're not talking about cutting anything and have invested in front line services and employed more people.

"If the council was having to implement an austerity agenda, it probably would be inappropriate — but we're not."

Christopher Stalford, the DUP chairman of the committee, said: "There are a wide range of views in council on this issue.
"We will be pursuing options that are cost neutral, whereby the operation of council business can be improved at zero cost to the ratepayers.

"We are a low tax party, after all. The DUP in Belfast will continue to pursue efficiencies and savings at every level of the organisation."

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/council-plans-to-fund-political-parties-from-ratepayers-money-1-6538347



Will that be Research Services Ireland again then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 23, 2015, 09:03:30 PM
Researching new ways to fleece the taxpayer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on January 23, 2015, 09:36:42 PM
Sinn Fein have long ago realised that it doesn't matter what U turns they do, or no matter how much money they steal from us taxpayers, the sheep will follow them blindly to the election booths and keep them in power. Nothing they do surprises me and many others anymore. Sadly too many others havn't copped onto them yet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 23, 2015, 10:07:46 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 23, 2015, 09:36:42 PM
Sinn Fein have long ago realised that it doesn't matter what U turns they do, or no matter how much money they steal from us taxpayers, the sheep will follow them blindly to the election booths and keep them in power. Nothing they do surprises me and many others anymore. Sadly too many others havn't copped onto them yet.
That's about the size of it. A fella in work said their mask hasn't so much slipped as they have said "ah f**k it" and have chucked it in the gutter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 24, 2015, 12:44:29 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 23, 2015, 09:36:42 PM
Sinn Fein have long ago realised that it doesn't matter what U turns they do, or no matter how much money they steal from us taxpayers, the sheep will follow them blindly to the election booths and keep them in power. Nothing they do surprises me and many others anymore. Sadly too many others havn't copped onto them yet.
So what's the alternative?
Looks like there is even less choice in the six counties than there is down here!

IMO if sf are to counter the dup then sf will have to take their seats in Westminster - or at least say they will and go in for the big ticket votes.

Otherwise it will be back to the 80's and the unionist/ loyalist mp's will earn indulgences from the grateful Brit gov for propping up their vote.

I'd have been sickened at the thoughts of that before, but the name of the game now is to thwart the unionist/loyalist crew from clawing back power- and will be for next number of years, while treading water until the voting majority swings AND the Irish gov makes it attractive for voters north and south to vote in the reunification
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on January 24, 2015, 01:44:10 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 24, 2015, 12:44:29 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 23, 2015, 09:36:42 PM
Sinn Fein have long ago realised that it doesn't matter what U turns they do, or no matter how much money they steal from us taxpayers, the sheep will follow them blindly to the election booths and keep them in power. Nothing they do surprises me and many others anymore. Sadly too many others havn't copped onto them yet.
So what's the alternative?
Looks like there is even less choice in the six counties than there is down here!

IMO if sf are to counter the dup then sf will have to take their seats in Westminster - or at least say they will and go in for the big ticket votes.

Otherwise it will be back to the 80's and the unionist/ loyalist mp's will earn indulgences from the grateful Brit gov for propping up their vote.

I'd have been sickened at the thoughts of that before, but the name of the game now is to thwart the unionist/loyalist crew from clawing back power- and will be for next number of years, while treading water until the voting majority swings AND the Irish gov makes it attractive for voters north and south to vote in the reunification

Sorry but where does fleecing the general public come into all of that?

I mean will we all be sitting around enjoying re-unification and reminiscing about the time Caral Ni Chuilin gave 11 grand to her brother in law for f**k all, whilst the executive passed one of the most cutting budgets in 20 years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on January 24, 2015, 11:11:10 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 23, 2015, 09:36:42 PM
Sinn Fein have long ago realised that it doesn't matter what U turns they do, or no matter how much money they steal from us taxpayers, the sheep will follow them blindly to the election booths and keep them in power. Nothing they do surprises me and many others anymore. Sadly too many others havn't copped onto them yet.

   Brilliant post!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2015, 11:19:39 AM
I think the news that there was child abuse going on between the armalite and ballot box would put me off voting for SF.
Anyway I don't think they are any different to any of the other shower when  it comes to power.

the big question for all politicians

  who do you really serve, whose lines do you toe, whose instructions do you obey, what are your ulterior motives, what is your hidden agenda and what  will and will not you do, in whose name, for whose really vested interests if you ever get a sniff of power
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 26, 2015, 10:28:51 AM
Great news - we're almost there. All you have to do is vote. Simple.



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/martin-mcguinness-united-ireland-is-within-our-grasp-1.2079149
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 26, 2015, 10:32:08 AM
I hear Gerry Adams will act as a conduit for anyone who wants to give info on the Adrian Donohue murder.
Hmmmmm....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 26, 2015, 10:59:02 AM
Quote from: orangeman on January 26, 2015, 10:28:51 AM
Great news - we're almost there. All you have to do is vote. Simple.



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/martin-mcguinness-united-ireland-is-within-our-grasp-1.2079149
McGuinness telling the true believers what they want to hear, hardly newsworthy stuff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2015, 11:20:09 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 26, 2015, 10:32:08 AM
I hear Gerry Adams will act as a conduit for anyone who wants to give info on the Adrian Donohue murder.
Hmmmmm....

A veritable tube of information.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 27, 2015, 03:43:26 AM
I didnt see claire byrnes rte show with ger and joan burton but from what ive read gerry wiped the floor with her and the presenter.. Id be one of the people who,d prefer to see gerry step aside but at this stage its too late.. As long as he doesnt try to do too much its in the bag
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 27, 2015, 09:18:43 AM
Another bitter article by Ruth Dudley Edwards in the Belfast Telegraph yesterday. This time it was venting her anger at ex Noraid leader Martin Galvin.

Does RDE live in Dublin or just write for the Irish Times? She seems to hate anything Irish.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on January 27, 2015, 10:01:45 AM
Cameron has come to the Shinner's aid.............

David Cameron says he could agree to the planned TV debates if Northern Ireland's parties are included.

Asked if a deal could be reached if Northern Ireland were part of it, Mr Cameron told the BBC: "Yes. I think a deal could be done."

He said: "You can't have one part of the UK - Scotland or Wales - without having another part - Northern Ireland."

Labour leader Ed Miliband said he would take part with or without Mr Cameron.

Speaking on BBC Breakfast, the prime minister said: "I do want to say yes, and the point I made was that you couldn't have one minor party, UKIP without having another minor party, the Greens."

He added: "It was the broadcasters that decided not only to include the Greens but they also then decided to include Plaid Cymru from Wales and the Scottish National Party from Scotland.

"I think the Labour Party and myself both made the point you can't have one part of the United Kingdom - Scotland or Wales - without having another part - Northern Ireland."

'Empty chair'

Labour leader Ed Miliband commented: "I want the debates to happen. David Cameron is wriggling and wriggling on this."

He pledged: "I am going to be at those debates, whether it's an empty chair or David Cameron."

The prime minister was previously criticised for saying he would not participate if the Green Party's leader, Natalie Bennett, was not featured.

Broadcasters subsequently proposed a revised format, under which two debates hosted by BBC and ITV would feature the leaders of the Conservatives, Labour, the Liberal Democrats, UKIP, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru.

A third on Channel 4 and Sky would pit Mr Cameron against Ed Miliband in a one-on-one debate.

Peter Robinson, leader of the DUP - which has eight MPs at Westminster - said last week he would write to the BBC and ITV to ask why his party has not been included.

Sinn Féin, the SDLP and Alliance have all said they should be involved
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 27, 2015, 10:05:18 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 27, 2015, 10:01:45 AM
Cameron has come to the Shinner's aid.............

David Cameron says he could agree to the planned TV debates if Northern Ireland's parties are included.


Translation: I will take part if there are also a load of loolahs that I am not running against, so that nobody has any time to speak.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on January 27, 2015, 10:17:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 27, 2015, 10:05:18 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 27, 2015, 10:01:45 AM
Cameron has come to the Shinner's aid.............

David Cameron says he could agree to the planned TV debates if Northern Ireland's parties are included.


Translation: I will take part if there are also a load of loolahs that I am not running against, so that nobody has any time to speak.

Yeah Cameron is really shitting himself for the potential of these debates. Plainly obvious
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on January 27, 2015, 10:36:05 AM
Deciding the actual format of these debates is more important than the debates themselves usually. If Cameron gets his way he'll have scored a political victory already. I wouldn't read anything into him 'shitting himself' about it, neither Clegg nor Milliband are serious public speakers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on January 27, 2015, 11:10:01 AM
Quote from: stibhan on January 27, 2015, 10:36:05 AM
Deciding the actual format of these debates is more important than the debates themselves usually. If Cameron gets his way he'll have scored a political victory already. I wouldn't read anything into him 'shitting himself' about it, neither Clegg nor Milliband are serious public speakers.

Hard to know what Cameron is at, although he is right to say that if Farage is allowed on the stage as the TV companies want, then so must the greens, SNP and so on.
Not sure what the Shinners or DUP, the Welsh crowd hope to gain out of it unless they feel left out.

SNP will be the king makers in all of this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 27, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
Big silence on this thread about the O'Connor inquest and Gerry Kelly.
I wonder why ::) :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on January 27, 2015, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
Big silence on this thread about the O'Connor inquest and Gerry Kelly.
I wonder why ::) :D
Because theres nothing to say. The suspects details were forwarded to the psni by gerry kelly to see if he/she was wanted in relation to any investigation. The police said no. Now that persons name has been mentioned in connection with o connor. No one knows if hes connected or not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 27, 2015, 12:04:00 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 24, 2015, 01:44:10 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 24, 2015, 12:44:29 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 23, 2015, 09:36:42 PM
Sinn Fein have long ago realised that it doesn't matter what U turns they do, or no matter how much money they steal from us taxpayers, the sheep will follow them blindly to the election booths and keep them in power. Nothing they do surprises me and many others anymore. Sadly too many others havn't copped onto them yet.
So what's the alternative?
Looks like there is even less choice in the six counties than there is down here!

IMO if sf are to counter the dup then sf will have to take their seats in Westminster - or at least say they will and go in for the big ticket votes.

Otherwise it will be back to the 80's and the unionist/ loyalist mp's will earn indulgences from the grateful Brit gov for propping up their vote.

I'd have been sickened at the thoughts of that before, but the name of the game now is to thwart the unionist/loyalist crew from clawing back power- and will be for next number of years, while treading water until the voting majority swings AND the Irish gov makes it attractive for voters north and south to vote in the reunification

Sorry but where does fleecing the general public come into all of that?

I mean will we all be sitting around enjoying re-unification and reminiscing about the time Caral Ni Chuilin gave 11 grand to her brother in law for f**k all, whilst the executive passed one of the most cutting budgets in 20 years.
if they do or even is some of them do - then they are the same as all the other politicians and as per my opening lines- there is even less choice in the six counties than there is down here!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on January 27, 2015, 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 27, 2015, 11:10:01 AM
Quote from: stibhan on January 27, 2015, 10:36:05 AM
Deciding the actual format of these debates is more important than the debates themselves usually. If Cameron gets his way he'll have scored a political victory already. I wouldn't read anything into him 'shitting himself' about it, neither Clegg nor Milliband are serious public speakers.

Hard to know what Cameron is at, although he is right to say that if Farage is allowed on the stage as the TV companies want, then so must the greens, SNP and so on.
Not sure what the Shinners or DUP, the Welsh crowd hope to gain out of it unless they feel left out.

SNP will be the king makers in all of this.

Cameron wants the whole thing to be a circus, or at least a bigger circus than usual. It reduces the opportunity for Miliband to be able to land a blow. I read someone during the week saying that Miliband's leadership stock is so low that getting up on stage and not soiling himself would be seen as a triumph. Put Peter Robinson or Gerry Adams in front of the cameras and Miliband could give a performance of Churchillian brilliance and no one would even notice.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on January 27, 2015, 02:14:37 PM
I suppose they could use the set from 'take me out'

No likey, no lighty


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 27, 2015, 02:24:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2015, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
Big silence on this thread about the O'Connor inquest and Gerry Kelly.
I wonder why ::) :D
Because theres nothing to say. The suspects details were forwarded to the psni by gerry kelly to see if he/she was wanted in relation to any investigation. The police said no. Now that persons name has been mentioned in connection with o connor. No one knows if hes connected or not.
Everybody seems to be buying into the assertion by Ian Og that SF and Gerry Kelly are colluding with the NIO to ensure that people avoid prosecution. A lot is also being made of this case been after the GFA. My understanding is that anyone can give GK approach SF/GK and ask if they are wanted in relation to any offence. It is then up to the authorities to say yeah or nay and issue a letter or not as the case warrants. I can't see how any of this can be SF's fault if the police c**k it up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 27, 2015, 04:19:08 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2015, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
Big silence on this thread about the O'Connor inquest and Gerry Kelly.
I wonder why ::) :D
Because theres nothing to say. The suspects details were forwarded to the psni by gerry kelly to see if he/she was wanted in relation to any investigation. The police said no. Now that persons name has been mentioned in connection with o connor. No one knows if hes connected or not.
So it's not a matter of concern that Gerry K was liaising with a suspect in a 2003 murder- 5 years after the GFA??
Then ye wonder why SF can't get above 24% in the 26 and get F all transfers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 27, 2015, 04:49:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2015, 04:19:08 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 27, 2015, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
Big silence on this thread about the O'Connor inquest and Gerry Kelly.
I wonder why ::) :D
Because theres nothing to say. The suspects details were forwarded to the psni by gerry kelly to see if he/she was wanted in relation to any investigation. The police said no. Now that persons name has been mentioned in connection with o connor. No one knows if hes connected or not.
So it's not a matter of concern that Gerry K was liaising with a suspect in a 2003 murder- 5 years after the GFA??
Then ye wonder why SF can't get above 24% in the 26 and get F all transfers.
Where is the evidence that Gerry Kelly knew he was a suspect in that case? He denies that and from the mistake it would appear the police didn't know otherwise they wouldn't have told the NIO to issue the letter. Kelly's role was to ask if someone was wanted in connection with an offense I can't see how he would necessarily have knowledge of their guilt or innocence. As I said where is the proof.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 27, 2015, 05:18:34 PM
There's no proof G Adams was a member of the Provo IRA or its Army Council ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 27, 2015, 07:02:27 PM
"If they are wanted in relation to any offence"

If some person is coming up to me with that line i be automatically presuming this person has done something outside the law! Should you not have a conscience that you acting as a go between to someone who committed a serious crime? Oh Sorry did i say "Conscience " there, Damn!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 28, 2015, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 27, 2015, 07:02:27 PM
"If they are wanted in relation to any offence"

If some person is coming up to me with that line i be automatically presuming this person has done something outside the law! Should you not have a conscience that you acting as a go between to someone who committed a serious crime? Oh Sorry did i say "Conscience " there, Damn!
Undoubtedly you may assume this to be the case. I repeat there is no evidence that GK knew that this request was regarding the O'Connor murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 28, 2015, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Correct
Neither were sanctioned by the IRA

But what has that got to do with sf?

The shite that some of the clowns are spouting on this thread is pushing me towards liking or even supporting the shunners
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 28, 2015, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 28, 2015, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Correct
Neither were sanctioned by the IRA

But what has that got to do with sf?

The shite that some of the clowns are spouting on this thread is pushing me towards liking or even supporting the shunners

Yeah you hate SF, its always shone through in your posts  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on January 28, 2015, 10:41:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 28, 2015, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Correct
Neither were sanctioned by the IRA

You seem quite knowledgeable about what what operations the IRA have sanctioned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 28, 2015, 10:46:55 PM
Quote from: dec on January 28, 2015, 10:41:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 28, 2015, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Correct
Neither were sanctioned by the IRA

You seem quite knowledgeable about what what operations the IRA have sanctioned.

He likes to think he is, he knows as much about it as Joe Bloggs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 11:05:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 28, 2015, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 28, 2015, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Correct
Neither were sanctioned by the IRA

But what has that got to do with sf?

The shite that some of the clowns are spouting on this thread is pushing me towards liking or even supporting the shunners

Yeah you hate SF, its always shone through in your posts  ::)
;D ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2015, 11:43:54 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 28, 2015, 10:46:55 PM
Quote from: dec on January 28, 2015, 10:41:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 28, 2015, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Correct
Neither were sanctioned by the IRA

You seem quite knowledgeable about what what operations the IRA have sanctioned.

He likes to think he is, he knows as much about it as Joe Bloggs

Joe Bloggs has categorically denied he was a member of the IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 29, 2015, 12:11:40 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 28, 2015, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 28, 2015, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Correct
Neither were sanctioned by the IRA

But what has that got to do with sf?

The shite that some of the clowns are spouting on this thread is pushing me towards liking or even supporting the shunners

Yeah you hate SF, its always shone through in your posts  ::)
Hate is too strong
You are however confusing sf with republicans ( real ones)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 29, 2015, 12:13:42 AM
Quote from: dec on January 28, 2015, 10:41:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 28, 2015, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Correct
Neither were sanctioned by the IRA

You seem quite knowledgeable about what what operations the IRA have sanctioned.
Only wee dafties would believe ( or want to believe) that those two killings were anything to do with the IRA
Fairly obv
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 29, 2015, 11:18:37 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2015, 11:43:54 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 28, 2015, 10:46:55 PM
Quote from: dec on January 28, 2015, 10:41:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 28, 2015, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2015, 05:48:17 PM
There wasn't much evidence that it was the Provo IRA that killed Robert McCartney or young Quinn  ;)
Correct
Neither were sanctioned by the IRA

You seem quite knowledgeable about what what operations the IRA have sanctioned.

He likes to think he is, he knows as much about it as Joe Bloggs

Joe Bloggs has categorically denied he was a member of the IRA.
And had nothing to do with the Northern Bank job  :-X
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:55:03 PM
Anyone would think there are elections on the horizon...

June 2013:

All Stormont MLAs take pay rise except SDLP

Thirteen SDLP representatives have refused a £5,000 increase in their MLA salaries, becoming the only party that did not accept the money.

All other Stormont MLAs who are not MPs have accepted the rise, saying they needed it to cover a shortfall in office funding.

The 11% pay rise was recommended by an independent panel in March and took effect in April.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22871037


January 2015:

Sinn Fein calls for 15% pay cut for Stormont MLAs and ministers

Assembly Members and ministers should take a 15% pay cut in the next year, Sinn Fein has urged.

The party says politicians must be seen to "share the pain" of the public which votes for them, and urged all parties to consider the move.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-calls-for-15-pay-cut-for-stormont-mlas-and-ministers-30943611.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 10:06:41 PM
Sinead's not in. From her Facebook:

Ok. I met with Sinn Fein's Sinead Nii Bhrion and Ken O'Connell during the week. They persuaded me that I'd be bored shitless, pretty much waiting for them to get into government before being able to help generate any national discussion on the issue of ending partition.

There aren't any plans for such national discussion to be generated in the Republic anytime soon, which seems pretty silly when you consider the fact that we're all going to have to vote on the issue at some point, according to the terms of The Good Friday Agreement.

I would have thought it sensible to have such discussions sooner rather than later, since there's a lot of persuading to be done in the Republic as to why people should care enough to vote at all, never mind vote to end partition.

But it became clear too me during the meeting that the end of partition isn't anywhere on any Irish political party's agenda apart from Sinn Fein's and it's such a taboo subject that Sinn Fein actually have to play down the fact its anywhere on theirs, and put it very last on their list of things to talk about in public apart from with the already converted, the vast minority.

It was said to me that people like myself are more useful "working alongside" since we can say what we like, and that the same applies to a well known rugby player, who's name I can't remember and who turned down invitations to join. It was said to me that being a member would have limited his freedom of speech and that consequently he is more helpful, he can say things which members of the party can't say.

So because I can say what I like, can I just say I think its dreadfully unfair that conversations about the end of partition can't be had on a massive public scale in the Republic of Ireland until it suits everyone up North and until Sinn Fein are in Government in the Republic?

It isn't right that the people of the Republic are hostage to such conversational time frames, things have changed here. Such that the issue of partition needs more urgent discussion than the good Friday Agreement could possibly have perceived.

It makes no sense for Sinn Fein to speak of sovereignty and water but not speak of ending partition.

It makes no sense to plan now for next year's centenary, while not speaking now about the end of partition.

I think Sinn Fein could risk being braver.

If you seem afraid of the subject how on earth are you gonna convince anyone who is more afraid? i.e. the vast majority of residents of the Republic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 30, 2015, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:55:03 PM
Anyone would think there are elections on the horizon...

June 2013:

All Stormont MLAs take pay rise except SDLP

Thirteen SDLP representatives have refused a £5,000 increase in their MLA salaries, becoming the only party that did not accept the money.

All other Stormont MLAs who are not MPs have accepted the rise, saying they needed it to cover a shortfall in office funding.

The 11% pay rise was recommended by an independent panel in March and took effect in April.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22871037


January 2015:

Sinn Fein calls for 15% pay cut for Stormont MLAs and ministers

Assembly Members and ministers should take a 15% pay cut in the next year, Sinn Fein has urged.

The party says politicians must be seen to "share the pain" of the public which votes for them, and urged all parties to consider the move.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-calls-for-15-pay-cut-for-stormont-mlas-and-ministers-30943611.html

That's actually laughable...!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on January 30, 2015, 11:11:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 30, 2015, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:55:03 PM
Anyone would think there are elections on the horizon...

June 2013:

All Stormont MLAs take pay rise except SDLP

Thirteen SDLP representatives have refused a £5,000 increase in their MLA salaries, becoming the only party that did not accept the money.

All other Stormont MLAs who are not MPs have accepted the rise, saying they needed it to cover a shortfall in office funding.

The 11% pay rise was recommended by an independent panel in March and took effect in April.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22871037


January 2015:

Sinn Fein calls for 15% pay cut for Stormont MLAs and ministers

Assembly Members and ministers should take a 15% pay cut in the next year, Sinn Fein has urged.

The party says politicians must be seen to "share the pain" of the public which votes for them, and urged all parties to consider the move.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-calls-for-15-pay-cut-for-stormont-mlas-and-ministers-30943611.html

That's actually laughable...!

That's politics. Politicians will say almost anything to get elected and will row back as soon they get into power.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on January 30, 2015, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 10:06:41 PM
Sinead's not in. From her Facebook:

Ok. I met with Sinn Fein's Sinead Nii Bhrion and Ken O'Connell during the week. They persuaded me that I'd be bored shitless, pretty much waiting for them to get into government before being able to help generate any national discussion on the issue of ending partition.

There aren't any plans for such national discussion to be generated in the Republic anytime soon, which seems pretty silly when you consider the fact that we're all going to have to vote on the issue at some point, according to the terms of The Good Friday Agreement.

I would have thought it sensible to have such discussions sooner rather than later, since there's a lot of persuading to be done in the Republic as to why people should care enough to vote at all, never mind vote to end partition.

But it became clear too me during the meeting that the end of partition isn't anywhere on any Irish political party's agenda apart from Sinn Fein's and it's such a taboo subject that Sinn Fein actually have to play down the fact its anywhere on theirs, and put it very last on their list of things to talk about in public apart from with the already converted, the vast minority.

It was said to me that people like myself are more useful "working alongside" since we can say what we like, and that the same applies to a well known rugby player, who's name I can't remember and who turned down invitations to join. It was said to me that being a member would have limited his freedom of speech and that consequently he is more helpful, he can say things which members of the party can't say.

So because I can say what I like, can I just say I think its dreadfully unfair that conversations about the end of partition can't be had on a massive public scale in the Republic of Ireland until it suits everyone up North and until Sinn Fein are in Government in the Republic?

It isn't right that the people of the Republic are hostage to such conversational time frames, things have changed here. Such that the issue of partition needs more urgent discussion than the good Friday Agreement could possibly have perceived.

It makes no sense for Sinn Fein to speak of sovereignty and water but not speak of ending partition.

It makes no sense to plan now for next year's centenary, while not speaking now about the end of partition.

I think Sinn Fein could risk being braver.

If you seem afraid of the subject how on earth are you gonna convince anyone who is more afraid? i.e. the vast majority of residents of the Republic.

God, I love Sinead!!  She's 100% right.  Again!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 30, 2015, 10:41:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 30, 2015, 11:11:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 30, 2015, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:55:03 PM
Anyone would think there are elections on the horizon...

June 2013:

All Stormont MLAs take pay rise except SDLP

Thirteen SDLP representatives have refused a £5,000 increase in their MLA salaries, becoming the only party that did not accept the money.

All other Stormont MLAs who are not MPs have accepted the rise, saying they needed it to cover a shortfall in office funding.

The 11% pay rise was recommended by an independent panel in March and took effect in April.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22871037


January 2015:

Sinn Fein calls for 15% pay cut for Stormont MLAs and ministers

Assembly Members and ministers should take a 15% pay cut in the next year, Sinn Fein has urged.

The party says politicians must be seen to "share the pain" of the public which votes for them, and urged all parties to consider the move.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-calls-for-15-pay-cut-for-stormont-mlas-and-ministers-30943611.html

That's actually laughable...!

That's politics. Politicians will say almost anything to get elected and will row back as soon they get into power.
15% to be topped up via research grants.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on February 11, 2015, 09:56:18 PM
Sinn Fein must be getting dizzy with the Welfare Reform spinning -

@newbelfast (Máirtín Ó Muilleor) In chamber 4 Welfare debate. Taking me lead from Seamus McAleavey of NICVA: said this is a good deal. We have blunted worst of Tory agenda.

@sdlpcllrharding (Brian Harding) NICVA say Welfare cut are a good deal. Where and when did Seamus say this?

@SeamusMcAleavey to be clear NICVA hasn't said anything of the sort


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 11, 2015, 10:08:54 PM
To be fair you have missed a bit about your man mcaleavy saying they are mitigating some of the worst parts of the cuts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on February 11, 2015, 10:13:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 11, 2015, 10:08:54 PM
To be fair you have missed a bit about your man mcaleavy saying they are mitigating some of the worst parts of the cuts.

They are mitigating them by using money from the block grant, they didn't receive an extra penny from Westminster for Welfare Reform. That money taken from the block grant will impact on already stretched public services & in the coming years these various (five I believe) top up funds will be in competition for funding with education, health etc

They are geniuses in Stormont.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2015, 10:58:29 PM
They'd want to get their 26 Co people up to Stormont right away - they would reduce tax and improve public services!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on February 12, 2015, 07:29:42 PM
What was it that SF achieved that justified all the grandstanding?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 08:28:03 PM
Sinn Fein are just demonstrating that the idealism of opposition becomes pragmatism once in power.

If the media and other politicians in the south want to challenge SF, they should forget about their murky past - there's plenty of ammunition (pardon the pun) in what they're doing at Stormont.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 08:44:29 PM
Analysis: An astonishingly rapid about-turn by SF

The stance adopted by Sinn Fein yesterday was, in many ways, that of a responsible party of government. But it was also astonishing.

Just three months ago, the Assembly was on the brink of collapse because Sinn Fein steadfastly refused to implement welfare reform, and urged the other parties to join it in a campaign to "stop Tory cuts".

Sinn Fein was dismissive when the DUP, UUP, Alliance and others said that such a stance could lead to a return to direct rule, with Conservative ministers implementing welfare reform without any of the 'flexibilities' which were secured by Stormont two years ago.

The clear implication of Sinn Fein's stance was that cuts to welfare were so abhorrent that they should be blocked at all costs.

But yesterday, finding itself outflanked by the SDLP and the Green Party, Sinn Fein found itself making the same appeal to pragmatism which it has until now dismissed on this issue.

In a highly unusual statement, Martin McGuinness savaged the SDLP — which had tabled 22 amendments to the Welfare Reform Bill — saying that it "is prepared to jeopardise the Stormont House Agreement and the power-sharing institutions" by attempting to change the welfare bill.

The logic of the Deputy First Minister's argument is that saving Stormont is more important than making changes to the Welfare Reform Bill to negate some of the Conservatives' reforms — an extraordinary turnaround from Sinn Fein's increasingly bullish stance over the last two years.

As it so happened, the DUP had already tabled petitions of concern to 49 amendements, vetoing changes not brought forward by their minister.

Sinn Fein can point to the fact that it won some concessions in December's talks, particularly by exempting future housing benefit claimants from the so-called 'bedroom tax'.

But although the Stormont House Agreement secured some more money for Stormont, it did not extract from the Government a single additional penny for welfare reform.

And most of the money which it moves across the Irish Sea is borrowed, with the largest loan of £700 million to be used to pay off public sector workers.

Rather than 'stopping Tory cuts', it is now increasingly apparent that what Sinn Fein actually secured in December was the agreement of the DUP to use some more of Stormont's existing budget to top up the benefits of those who will lose money under the reforms.

In coming years, with an already shrinking Stormont budget, increased debt payments from increased borrowings and what are sure to be continued pressures on the NHS, the benefit top-up payments will be fighting with funding for hospitals, schools or the police.

Effectively, everything which Sinn Fein has secured for welfare claimants will come from other Stormont services.

Sinn Fein has pragmatically extracted the best deal which was possible from its perspective.

But that stance goes against two years of rhetoric which led some to believe that Sinn Fein would never allow welfare reform to pass.

So close to an election, this U-turn is either based on extraordinary confidence or desperation.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/analysis-an-astonishingly-rapid-about-turn-by-sf-1-6573007
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: babarino on February 12, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
C'mon Maguire. You can't seriously post an article from the Newsletter as if it is some sort of credible source.  Leaving aside the one man band that is the Greens, the SDLP are all over the shop on this. They along with the UUP and DUP signed up for a far worse deal, when the shinners held out.

Your argument assumes that they are in power, which they aren't. They along with the DUP are part of a devolved administration, with some powers, but without control of fiscal policy, it's not a government.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on February 12, 2015, 11:19:04 PM
Quote from: babarino on February 12, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
C'mon Maguire. You can't seriously post an article from the Newsletter as if it is some sort of credible source.  Leaving aside the one man band that is the Greens, the SDLP are all over the shop on this. They along with the UUP and DUP signed up for a far worse deal, when the shinners held out.

Your argument assumes that they are in power, which they aren't. They along with the DUP are part of a devolved administration, with some powers, but without control of fiscal policy, it's not a government.

What is different or better about the deal now ? "Flexibilities" specific to here were agreed two years ago. They haven't received an extra penny for welfare reform.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 11:47:55 PM
Quote from: babarino on February 12, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
C'mon Maguire. You can't seriously post an article from the Newsletter as if it is some sort of credible source.  Leaving aside the one man band that is the Greens, the SDLP are all over the shop on this. They along with the UUP and DUP signed up for a far worse deal, when the shinners held out.

Your argument assumes that they are in power, which they aren't. They along with the DUP are part of a devolved administration, with some powers, but without control of fiscal policy, it's not a government.
It's analysis from the Newsletter, not a source of facts. But if you can point out any inaccuracies, please do.

And the Shinners didn't get a better deal. They're funding mitigation by diverting other public spending. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: babarino on February 13, 2015, 09:26:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 11:47:55 PM
Quote from: babarino on February 12, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
C'mon Maguire. You can't seriously post an article from the Newsletter as if it is some sort of credible source.  Leaving aside the one man band that is the Greens, the SDLP are all over the shop on this. They along with the UUP and DUP signed up for a far worse deal, when the shinners held out.

Your argument assumes that they are in power, which they aren't. They along with the DUP are part of a devolved administration, with some powers, but without control of fiscal policy, it's not a government.
It's analysis from the Newsletter, not a source of facts. But if you can point out any inaccuracies, please do.

And the Shinners didn't get a better deal. They're funding mitigation by diverting other public spending. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Quoting Newsletter opinions to support an argument on SF is like using the words Gregory Campbell or Nelson McCausland in a debate on Acht na Gaeilge. They start from a position of hostility and all points are raised solely for the purpose of reinforcement. I've neither the time nor the inclination to dissect their jaundiced arguments.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 13, 2015, 09:37:41 AM
The Shinners have been pragmatic and realistic here, they held on for greater flexibility to deal with the worst effects of welfare reform and got as much as they could. No British government of what ever hue was going to roll back on welfare reform as it is a fiscal necessity. But the wider issue in working class areas of the north on both sides of the divide is the ongoing benefits culture. It is time that all parties including the Shinners start pushing for better paying jobs in these areas. It is also about time benefits targeted real need. That said when communities as has happen twice in West Belfast in recent months reject investment you wonder if they actually want to progress.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on February 13, 2015, 10:40:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 13, 2015, 09:37:41 AM
The Shinners have been pragmatic and realistic here, they held on for greater flexibility to deal with the worst effects of welfare reform and got as much as they could. No British government of what ever hue was going to roll back on welfare reform as it is a fiscal necessity. But the wider issue in working class areas of the north on both sides of the divide is the ongoing benefits culture. It is time that all parties including the Shinners start pushing for better paying jobs in these areas. It is also about time benefits targeted real need. That said when communities as has happen twice in West Belfast in recent months reject investment you wonder if they actually want to progress.

What flexibilities did they achieve ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 13, 2015, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: babarino on February 13, 2015, 09:26:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 11:47:55 PM
Quote from: babarino on February 12, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
C'mon Maguire. You can't seriously post an article from the Newsletter as if it is some sort of credible source.  Leaving aside the one man band that is the Greens, the SDLP are all over the shop on this. They along with the UUP and DUP signed up for a far worse deal, when the shinners held out.

Your argument assumes that they are in power, which they aren't. They along with the DUP are part of a devolved administration, with some powers, but without control of fiscal policy, it's not a government.
It's analysis from the Newsletter, not a source of facts. But if you can point out any inaccuracies, please do.

And the Shinners didn't get a better deal. They're funding mitigation by diverting other public spending. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Quoting Newsletter opinions to support an argument on SF is like using the words Gregory Campbell or Nelson McCausland in a debate on Acht na Gaeilge. They start from a position of hostility and all points are raised solely for the purpose of reinforcement. I've neither the time nor the inclination to dissect their jaundiced arguments.
That's just a cop-out, and playing the man (in this case, the paper) to avoid playing the ball (the content). I wouldn't call the Newsletter a quality paper, and it's not one I'd buy, but there are a few journalists/ columnists whose pieces are generally worth reading online. And if it's that biased, it surely wouldn't be too difficult to tear the article apart.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 13, 2015, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 13, 2015, 09:37:41 AM
The Shinners have been pragmatic and realistic here, they held on for greater flexibility to deal with the worst effects of welfare reform and got as much as they could.
Can you enlighten me on just what they got?

Unless i'm missing something, they got no extra money from the British Government, aside from a loan which is repayable with interest. All that has happened, is that money has been diverted from health, education and other public services to mitigate the impact of the welfare reform bill they passed.

There's also the question of whether we should be diverting money from other important public services so that, for example, some people aren't subject to a benefits cap of £26k/year. That's the equivalent of £35k/year gross salary and well above the NI average salary of £24k/year.

There's no arguing that we need a welfare system so that everyone maintains a decent standard of living, but the current approach just seems to dismiss the idea that there should be any reform whatsoever. That's not to place the blame solely at SF however, just that they're the ones claiming that maintaining the status quo is a victory (regardless of the cost).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 26, 2015, 10:57:43 AM
Caught a bit of Declan Kearney on Nolan, how embarrassing, tried his best not to answer questions on SF support or otherwise for upcoming strikes. No one though had the balls to point to the Elephant in the room...SF and the DUP can only work with the cash the Brits dole out to them albeit they have some leeway to avoid taking money from the most vulnerable.. No political party here has the balls to reform the public sector especially in  Education and health where root and branch change is required.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on February 26, 2015, 10:58:44 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 26, 2015, 10:57:43 AM
Caught a bit of Declan Kearney on Nolan, how embarrassing, tried his best not to answer questions on SF support or otherwise for upcoming strikes. No one though had the balls to point to the Elephant in the room...SF and the DUP can only work with the cash the Brits dole out to them and therefore they are administering Tory cuts. No political party here has the balls to reform the public sector especially in  Education and health where root and branch change is required.

Or th balls to reform Welfare
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on March 02, 2015, 05:55:38 PM
Sinn Féin's Mitchel McLaughlin has announced he will take up the position of President of the NI Assembly Branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA).
The Assembly Speaker says support for the Commonwealth is not part of his personal politics.
However, he said he wanted his approach during his time as Speaker to be about "respect".
He did not comment on whether Ireland should become part of the Commonwealth.
"In upholding the independence and impartiality of the Speaker, my approach during my time in office is going to be one of respect," he added.
"Involvement in the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association has naturally not been part of my political life in the past.
"However, I will represent all sides of the House as any Speaker should and I intend to respect and acknowledge the culture and traditions of all sides of the assembly chamber.
"Taking up this position is a first step in demonstrating that approach.  I look forward to hosting next week's event to mark Commonwealth Day and its theme of encouraging youth participation in our democratic system."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2015, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on March 02, 2015, 05:55:38 PM
Sinn Féin's Mitchel McLaughlin has announced he will take up the position of President of the NI Assembly Branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary

He should get an MBE for that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on March 02, 2015, 06:21:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 02, 2015, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on March 02, 2015, 05:55:38 PM
Sinn Féin's Mitchel McLaughlin has announced he will take up the position of President of the NI Assembly Branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary

He should get an MBE for that.

He got a book for privately meeting the Deputy Israeli Ambassador days before they unleashed the brutal attack on Gaza last year

http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/assembly-business/office-of-the-speaker/gifts-received-by-the-speaker/gifts-received-by-the-speaker---2014/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 02, 2015, 08:49:05 PM
SF running one candidate in Mayo for the election, whenever it is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on March 09, 2015, 06:29:20 PM
So complete u-turn by SF on welfare reform. Did something happen at the Ard Fheis ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 09, 2015, 06:50:10 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 09, 2015, 06:29:20 PM
So complete u-turn by SF on welfare reform. Did something happen at the Ard Fheis ?
It's bizarre. What has changed? Did the DUP pull the wool over their eyes for the Stormont House Agreement? Has it taken them this long for them to figure it out?

A cynic might say that they were trying to divert northern media attention from their new position on abortion. This does seem a bit excessive however.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on March 09, 2015, 06:51:27 PM
What has happened here? Did they f**k up their figures during the Christmas talks and only realising the repercussions now? Doesn't look good for them at the minute.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on March 09, 2015, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 09, 2015, 06:51:27 PM
What has happened here? Did they f**k up their figures during the Christmas talks and only realising the repercussions now? Doesn't look good for them at the minute.

Don't think it's anything to do with figures or mitigations for benefit customers, it's obviously political, I just can't work out why they are doing it now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stiffler on March 09, 2015, 06:58:15 PM
It was clear when the agreement was made that the £ wasn't there to ensure no one would lose any benefits.

Why did it take SF so long to realise this publically?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on March 09, 2015, 07:12:30 PM
Would say the £700m for public sector voluntary exit scheme will now be withdrawn
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on March 09, 2015, 07:17:11 PM
Quote from: stiffler on March 09, 2015, 06:58:15 PM
It was clear when the agreement was made that the £ wasn't there to ensure no one would lose any benefits.

Why did it take SF so long to realise this publically?

Pretty sure they have known about the £££, welfare reform is obviously troubling for someone at the top in SF, my guess is Adams pulled the whole thing. Tellingly they where still selling the Stormont House agreement at the Ard Fheis in Derry at the weekend
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2015, 08:01:22 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 09, 2015, 07:17:11 PM
Quote from: stiffler on March 09, 2015, 06:58:15 PM
It was clear when the agreement was made that the £ wasn't there to ensure no one would lose any benefits.

Why did it take SF so long to realise this publically?

Pretty sure they have known about the £££, welfare reform is obviously troubling for someone at the top in SF, my guess is Adams pulled the whole thing. Tellingly they where still selling the Stormont House agreement at the Ard Fheis in Derry at the weekend

The situation with SF is that they don't want to be in the next Freestate government. This means that they can keep talking bollix and promising people stuff from the money tree for another 4 or 5 years. The NI administration has to actually govern however, and make things work in practice. But Adams keeps landing in saying you can't do this or you can't do that because somebody might point out these comprises, rather than the bollix, is what would have to happen in the South if they were in government. It is extremely cynical. The NI public expenditure situation is unsustainable and what is needed is a measured retreat rather than political point scoring. But also the biggest obstacle to a united Ireland, supposedly an aim of importance of SF, is that NI can't be funded in its present condition yet Adams is doing everything to ensure that nothing will be done to change this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 09, 2015, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2015, 08:01:22 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 09, 2015, 07:17:11 PM
Quote from: stiffler on March 09, 2015, 06:58:15 PM
It was clear when the agreement was made that the £ wasn't there to ensure no one would lose any benefits.

Why did it take SF so long to realise this publically?

Pretty sure they have known about the £££, welfare reform is obviously troubling for someone at the top in SF, my guess is Adams pulled the whole thing. Tellingly they where still selling the Stormont House agreement at the Ard Fheis in Derry at the weekend

The situation with SF is that they don't want to be in the next Freestate government. This means that they can keep talking bollix and promising people stuff from the money tree for another 4 or 5 years. The NI administration has to actually govern however, and make things work in practice. But Adams keeps landing in saying you can't do this or you can't do that because somebody might point out these comprises, rather than the bollix, is what would have to happen in the South if they were in government. It is extremely cynical. The NI public expenditure situation is unsustainable and what is needed is a measured retreat rather than political point scoring. But also the biggest obstacle to a united Ireland, supposedly an aim of importance of SF, is that NI can't be funded in its present condition yet Adams is doing everything to ensure that nothing will be done to change this.

I think it may be the opposite. Sinn Féin and SIPTU seem desperate to get into bed with each other. Barely a week goes by without the unelected Jack O'Connor eulogising Sinn Féin as both position themselves for the coming election. The manifesto will be very left wing and agreeing with the Stormont House Agreement would look ludicrous by comparison. 20,000 jobs loses in the PS in the 6 counties, versus a likely promise to create 10s of thousands of PS jobs in the 26 counties.

This is all about Adams making it to Taoiseach/Táiniste and nothing else.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2015, 08:28:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2015, 08:15:42 PM
I think it may be the opposite. Sinn Féin and SIPTU seem desperate to get into bed with each other. Barely a week goes by without the unelected Jack O'Connor eulogising Sinn Féin as both position themselves for the coming election. The manifesto will be very left wing and agreeing with the Stormont House Agreement would look ludicrous by comparison. 20,000 jobs loses in the PS in the 6 counties, versus a likely promise to create 10s of thousands of PS jobs in the 26 counties.

This is all about Adams making it to Taoiseach/Táiniste and nothing else.

Of course SF would like this, but may not be able to achieve it. Who would coalesce with them? A few independents, FF would be admitting the end to go in a junior partner under Adams. They may be hoping to force FG and FF into a coalition where they lead the opposition and so get in the next time. This may not work either, of course, after the recent 7 bad years we might have 7 good years and people might see no need to take a chance on the Shinners.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 09, 2015, 08:32:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2015, 08:28:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2015, 08:15:42 PM
I think it may be the opposite. Sinn Féin and SIPTU seem desperate to get into bed with each other. Barely a week goes by without the unelected Jack O'Connor eulogising Sinn Féin as both position themselves for the coming election. The manifesto will be very left wing and agreeing with the Stormont House Agreement would look ludicrous by comparison. 20,000 jobs loses in the PS in the 6 counties, versus a likely promise to create 10s of thousands of PS jobs in the 26 counties.

This is all about Adams making it to Taoiseach/Táiniste and nothing else.

Of course SF would like this, but may not be able to achieve it. Who would coalesce with them? A few independents, FF would be admitting the end to go in a junior partner under Adams. They may be hoping to force FG and FF into a coalition where they lead the opposition and so get in the next time. This may not work either, of course, after the recent 7 bad years we might have 7 good years and people might see no need to take a chance on the Shinners.

That is where SIPTU come in. They want an alliance of all left-leaning parties and independent TDs. That might get them close. After that anything is possible. Joe Higgins is campaigning vigorously against this as a) it would cost him seats and b) he doesn't want to ever go into Government as his pony's one trick is merely opposing something every few years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2015, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2015, 08:32:36 PM
That is where SIPTU come in. They want an alliance of all left-leaning parties and independent TDs. That might get them close. After that anything is possible. Joe Higgins is campaigning vigorously against this as a) it would cost him seats and b) he doesn't want to ever go into Government as his pony's one trick is merely opposing something every few years.

That alliance would be more fractious than GAABoard!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 09, 2015, 08:38:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2015, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2015, 08:32:36 PM
That is where SIPTU come in. They want an alliance of all left-leaning parties and independent TDs. That might get them close. After that anything is possible. Joe Higgins is campaigning vigorously against this as a) it would cost him seats and b) he doesn't want to ever go into Government as his pony's one trick is merely opposing something every few years.

That alliance would be more fractious than GAABoard!

It would, firstly they would be all fighting for the same vote in the election. Secondly, they would all be trying to get credit for the handouts to those same voters afterwards. Thirdly, they are all completely....eh never mind.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2015, 09:09:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2015, 08:38:56 PM
It would, firstly they would be all fighting for the same vote in the election. Secondly, they would all be trying to get credit for the handouts to those same voters afterwards. Thirdly, they are all completely....eh never mind.

Perhaps applying the latin, sinister might be the word you are looking for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on March 09, 2015, 09:21:27 PM
Charlatans of the highest order, unfortunately  the SDLP just seem to lurch from one cretinous leader to the next.

If someone started a political party for people who are apathetic and/or cycnical, they'd (ironically enough) sweep the boards :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on March 09, 2015, 10:21:57 PM
One interesting aside from their Derry shindig was that a motion was put forward urging party representatives and members to respect the national flag and to not be throwing it around at count centres and the like. It did pass, but only by 94 votes to 60, and they had to recount twice. Says a lot about that party and the mentality that exists within it, when you scratch away at the surface.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 09, 2015, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on March 09, 2015, 10:21:57 PM
One interesting aside from their Derry shindig was that a motion was put forward urging party representatives and members to respect the national flag and to not be throwing it around at count centres and the like. It did pass, but only by 94 votes to 60, and they had to recount twice. Says a lot about that party and the mentality that exists within it, when you scratch away at the surface.
Is that an admission that they have been disrespecting it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on March 09, 2015, 10:49:52 PM
Alex Maskey is a rubbish speaker, came across as a donkey on UTV live. This is a bad day for the Shinners.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 09, 2015, 10:59:10 PM
tend to jump between the SDLP and sinn fein voting wise from time to time, but i had enough of Sinn fein crap, they are not in it for the better good  of the people of the North, they happily throw us down the river to win the election down south.education a mess, the health service a disaster, all the unionist parties are more worried about flags and marching, for the live of me i cant understand how a party never come to the fore to get rid of all these pricks, surely we all Had enough of this mismanagement by now. Would you trust these clowns to invest your life savings? cause we trusting them to thrown away millions of pounds cause these are unfit to manage budgets.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on March 09, 2015, 11:45:03 PM
And there is this episode of Spotlight tomorrow night outlining more sexual abuse and cover up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ3zmOvbZao&app=desktop
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on March 10, 2015, 09:25:10 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 09, 2015, 10:49:52 PM
Alex Maskey is a rubbish speaker, came across as a donkey on UTV live. This is a bad day for the Shinners.

Alex didn't want nor seem to know exactly what the issue was and all he did was accuse the DUP of bad faith, a little bit more clarity would be nice, but hey its all gamesmanship.

On the SDLP, I think McDonnell in his interview in Stormont seemed to be backing up Sinn Fein with the petition of concern but Attwood in the studio was taking a very different line altogether and attacking Sinn Fein, strange that and not followed up by Paul Clarke at all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sensethetone on March 10, 2015, 10:37:40 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 10, 2015, 09:25:10 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 09, 2015, 10:49:52 PM
Alex Maskey is a rubbish speaker, came across as a donkey on UTV live. This is a bad day for the Shinners.

Alex didn't want nor seem to know exactly what the issue was and all he did was accuse the DUP of bad faith, a little bit more clarity would be nice, but hey its all gamesmanship.

On the SDLP, I think McDonnell in his interview in Stormont seemed to be backing up Sinn Fein with the petition of concern but Attwood in the studio was taking a very different line altogether and attacking Sinn Fein, strange that and not followed up by Paul Clarke at all.
Attwood went into one of his long winded rants on SF that Paul Clarke just moved on. Attwood always seems to do this?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2015, 10:47:55 AM
Reality beginning to bite the Shinners in the 6 Cos .
A foretaste for when they get in here  ;)
Awful easy to be agin things in opposition.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on March 10, 2015, 01:55:19 PM
this is all about the southern election
the dogs on the street knew there wasn't enough monies for welfare etc in the Stormont house agreement but the shinners wait til the last minute.
crass politicking

what fecks me off is that they don't seem to care about anyone but the party
I have two kids who have already said they are getting out of the north as soon as they can
really pisses me off the calibre of people we have as leaders
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 10, 2015, 02:32:11 PM
SF 'already in Government in with FG & Labour - Martin McGuinness

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-féin-already-in-government-with-fg-labour-says-mcguinness-1.2130767?utm_source=lunchtime-digest&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=digests (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-already-in-government-with-fg-labour-says-mcguinness-1.2130767?utm_source=lunchtime-digest&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=digests)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on March 10, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
I watched the morning session of the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis over the weekend.  Most of the speakers were quite good, Carlow/Kilkenny by election candidate Kathleen Funchion was probably the poorest speaker of the lot.  However by some considerable distance the most impressive political speaker was Dublin MEP Lynn Boylan.  I actually can't remember the last time I heard such a good political speech.  SF should be pushing her forward at every opportunity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 10, 2015, 02:53:04 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on March 10, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
I watched the morning session of the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis over the weekend.  Most of the speakers were quite good, Carlow/Kilkenny by election candidate Kathleen Funchion was probably the poorest speaker of the lot.  However by some considerable distance the most impressive political speaker was Dublin MEP Lynn Boylan.  I actually can't remember the last time I heard such a good political speech.  SF should be pushing her forward at every opportunity.

I read about her 'if this was your son' speech.

Cringeworthy populism at its worst. She said the minister should 'Phone Australia' to find out how to get someone out of prison in Egypt. Seriously? If only international diplomacy was that simple. But then many of the voters are THAT simple.

Another spoofers to add to a Dáil full of them in all parties. She is the last thing we, or SF, needs.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 10, 2015, 03:00:43 PM
Less than 5 minutes on Google I found this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/world/africa/egypt-releases-and-deportsal-jazeera-journalist-from-australia.html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/world/africa/egypt-releases-and-deportsal-jazeera-journalist-from-australia.html?_r=1)


.....A recent decision by Qatar to shut down Al Jazeera's Egyptian channel may have helped clear the way for Mr. Greste's release. The decision was part of a reconciliation meeting between Qatar and Egypt brokered by Saudi Arabia, and observers close to the Egyptian authorities immediately began speculating about a possible release of the Al Jazeera journalists. Yet Egypt did not disclose its specific reasons for the release or its timing.......

Phone Australia me arse.  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2015, 06:54:43 PM
A lot of silence from some here !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stibhan on March 10, 2015, 07:24:05 PM
The consensus seems to be that SF are only doing this to get into government in the south.

Irony being that both the DUP and the Conservatives are looking to form a coalition in Westminster.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omagh_gael on March 10, 2015, 11:05:50 PM
Spotlight on now BBC1. More shit hitting the SF fan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on March 10, 2015, 11:26:00 PM
Quote from: naka on March 10, 2015, 01:55:19 PM
this is all about the southern election
the dogs on the street knew there wasn't enough monies for welfare etc in the Stormont house agreement but the shinners wait til the last minute.
crass politicking

what fecks me off is that they don't seem to care about anyone but the party
I have two kids who have already said they are getting out of the north as soon as they can
really pisses me off the calibre of people we have as leaders
Were they ever any other way? It's all about SF and gaining power and increasing their hold on it. All their sanctimony trying to suggest that they are superior to all their peers in their motivations and convictions should be seen for the nonsense that it is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on March 11, 2015, 12:03:00 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 10, 2015, 11:36:29 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on March 10, 2015, 11:26:00 PM
Quote from: naka on March 10, 2015, 01:55:19 PM
this is all about the southern election
the dogs on the street knew there wasn't enough monies for welfare etc in the Stormont house agreement but the shinners wait til the last minute.
crass politicking

what fecks me off is that they don't seem to care about anyone but the party
I have two kids who have already said they are getting out of the north as soon as they can
really pisses me off the calibre of people we have as leaders
Were they ever any other way? It's all about SF and gaining power and increasing their hold on it. All their sanctimony trying to suggest that they are superior to all their peers in their motivations and convictions should be seen for the nonsense that it is.
Surely all of the above could be applied to any political party there has ever been?? In fact, have you just written the definition of a political party?
It is, that's the whole point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 11, 2015, 12:34:38 AM
£200mill will sort it according to Marty.

Martin McGuinness has said £200m would solve problems over welfare reform but the Northern Ireland Secretary has said there will be no extra cash.

Sinn Féin withdrew its support for a reform bill on Monday after accusing the DUP of reneging on commitments made in the Stormont House Agreement.

Mr McGuinness told RTÉ radio an extra £200m would close the gap.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 12:36:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 11, 2015, 12:34:38 AM
£200mill will sort it according to Marty.

Martin McGuinness has said £200m would solve problems over welfare reform but the Northern Ireland Secretary has said there will be no extra cash.

Sinn Féin withdrew its support for a reform bill on Monday after accusing the DUP of reneging on commitments made in the Stormont House Agreement.

Mr McGuinness told RTÉ radio an extra £200m would close the gap.

No problem then, that could easily be raised by water charges.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 07:26:21 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 11, 2015, 12:34:38 AM
£200mill will sort it according to Marty.

Martin McGuinness has said £200m would solve problems over welfare reform but the Northern Ireland Secretary has said there will be no extra cash.

Sinn Féin withdrew its support for a reform bill on Monday after accusing the DUP of reneging on commitments made in the Stormont House Agreement.

Mr McGuinness told RTÉ radio an extra £200m would close the gap.
He wants to take £200m from other services so that 6,000 odd families can continue to have benefits above £26k, with the average being over £30k... how is that protecting the most vulnerable?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: An Watcher on March 11, 2015, 07:46:47 AM
Alot of sf bashing going on here. Seems that the shinners were chasing the dupers for weeks trying to find out the details. The dupers were trying to pull a fly one and push through their own proposals. Seems it would have been very easy for sf to let it go as they had already stood up to the dupers on this. Thankfully they didn't and here we are.
I'm no expert but this is how I see things
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 11, 2015, 09:03:32 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 10, 2015, 11:05:50 PM
Spotlight on now BBC1. More shit hitting the SF fan.

Just another Maria Cahill story.

Standard policy will apply.

1.  Attack any other political party that raises this as politically motiviated and accuse them of playing political football with victims
2.  Complain about independent media and their agenda
3.  Cause another issue to raise a stir (Reject a budget, sit in at Dáil etc..)
4.  Deny until completely implausible and then produce some material (delivered anonymously)
5.  Dig up some dirt on victim, if none can be found say that they are being manipulated by other forces
6.  Advise victims to "come forward"
7.  If still an issue return to no.1

It'll all blow over before you know it.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on March 11, 2015, 09:58:12 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 11, 2015, 09:03:32 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 10, 2015, 11:05:50 PM
Spotlight on now BBC1. More shit hitting the SF fan.

Just another Maria Cahill story.

Standard policy will apply.

1.  Attack any other political party that raises this as politically motiviated and accuse them of playing political football with victims
2.  Complain about independent media and their agenda
3.  Cause another issue to raise a stir (Reject a budget, sit in at Dáil etc..)
4.  Deny until completely implausible and then produce some material (delivered anonymously)
5.  Dig up some dirt on victim, if none can be found say that they are being manipulated by other forces
6.  Advise victims to "come forward"
7.  If still an issue return to no.1

It'll all blow over before you know it.

/Jim.


Did Francie Molloy really tweet the "rubbish" remark ( number 2 above ) or is it really number 1 ?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on March 11, 2015, 12:20:39 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on March 11, 2015, 07:46:47 AM
Alot of sf bashing going on here. Seems that the shinners were chasing the dupers for weeks trying to find out the details. The dupers were trying to pull a fly one and push through their own proposals. Seems it would have been very easy for sf to let it go as they had already stood up to the dupers on this. Thankfully they didn't and here we are.
I'm no expert but this is how I see things
The budget as set out in the stormont  house agreement gave a clear amount surely someone with simple maths could have worked out that the pie was going to be lower yet Marty now says we need another 200 million
The Tories can't give it cos they are facing an election too.
Why wS this not realised during the negotiation?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on March 11, 2015, 12:25:12 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 11, 2015, 09:58:12 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 11, 2015, 09:03:32 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 10, 2015, 11:05:50 PM
Spotlight on now BBC1. More shit hitting the SF fan.

Just another Maria Cahill story.

Standard policy will apply.

1.  Attack any other political party that raises this as politically motiviated and accuse them of playing political football with victims
2.  Complain about independent media and their agenda
3.  Cause another issue to raise a stir (Reject a budget, sit in at Dáil etc..)
4.  Deny until completely implausible and then produce some material (delivered anonymously)
5.  Dig up some dirt on victim, if none can be found say that they are being manipulated by other forces
6.  Advise victims to "come forward"
7.  If still an issue return to no.1

It'll all blow over before you know it.

/Jim.


Did Francie Molloy really tweet the "rubbish" remark ( number 2 above ) or is it really number 1 ?.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_0HtdLWYAAjW5Z.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 11, 2015, 12:51:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 12:36:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 11, 2015, 12:34:38 AM
£200mill will sort it according to Marty.

Martin McGuinness has said £200m would solve problems over welfare reform but the Northern Ireland Secretary has said there will be no extra cash.

Sinn Féin withdrew its support for a reform bill on Monday after accusing the DUP of reneging on commitments made in the Stormont House Agreement.

Mr McGuinness told RTÉ radio an extra £200m would close the gap.

No problem then, that could easily be raised by water charges.

Brilliant!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on March 11, 2015, 01:04:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 12:36:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 11, 2015, 12:34:38 AM
£200mill will sort it according to Marty.

Martin McGuinness has said £200m would solve problems over welfare reform but the Northern Ireland Secretary has said there will be no extra cash.

Sinn Féin withdrew its support for a reform bill on Monday after accusing the DUP of reneging on commitments made in the Stormont House Agreement.

Mr McGuinness told RTÉ radio an extra £200m would close the gap.

No problem then, that could easily be raised by water charges.

And then pissed away
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on March 11, 2015, 08:12:09 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone believe the welfare system does not need reform ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 08:26:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 11, 2015, 08:12:09 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone believe the welfare system does not need reform ?

Of course it needs reform, the wholly inadequate amounts paid by the right wing Kenny and Cameron governments need to be vastly increased.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 08:26:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 11, 2015, 08:12:09 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone believe the welfare system does not need reform ?

Of course it needs reform, the wholly inadequate amounts paid by the right wing Kenny and Cameron governments need to be vastly increased.
And paid for by who?

Do you really think that 6,000 families in NI should receive benefits above the £26k annual cap (at an average of over £30k)? That's way above the NI average wage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 08:48:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 08:26:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 11, 2015, 08:12:09 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone believe the welfare system does not need reform ?

Of course it needs reform, the wholly inadequate amounts paid by the right wing Kenny and Cameron governments need to be vastly increased.
And paid for by who?


The Rich. And you and me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 08:55:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 08:48:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 08:26:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 11, 2015, 08:12:09 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone believe the welfare system does not need reform ?

Of course it needs reform, the wholly inadequate amounts paid by the right wing Kenny and Cameron governments need to be vastly increased.
And paid for by who?


The Rich. And you and me.
What about the rest of my post? Do you want working people earning the average wage to pay more to people who take home more than them on benefits?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on March 11, 2015, 08:58:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2015, 08:26:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 11, 2015, 08:12:09 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone believe the welfare system does not need reform ?

Of course it needs reform, the wholly inadequate amounts paid by the right wing Kenny and Cameron governments need to be vastly increased.
And paid for by who?

Do you really think that 6,000 families in NI should receive benefits above the £26k annual cap (at an average of over £30k)? That's way above the NI average wage.

there is a benefit class in this place that has been created by the ease in which benefits have been given out especially DLA. In my line of work I come across a shocking amount of people who have never and if they could get away with it would never work. I am not talking about genuine folk who are ill or who are unemployed through the recession or whatever. I have had dealings with a 20 year old lass who has told me she is on DLA and cant work because she has COPD, whilst puffing on a fag. I could give 100s of examples of people who are on DLA etc who don't need to be. Its a system that needs seriously tightened up, millions are being wasted on it and it is unsustainable. Its the charlatans that are messing it up for those in genuine need.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on March 11, 2015, 09:09:04 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 11, 2015, 08:58:35 PM
Its a system that needs seriously tightened up, millions are being wasted on it and it is unsustainable. Its the charlatans that are messing it up for those in genuine need.

Easily fixed. Offer 1K reward for evidence of anyone found scrounging benefits they aren't entitled to. Race to the bottom there....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on March 11, 2015, 09:14:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 11, 2015, 09:09:04 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 11, 2015, 08:58:35 PM
Its a system that needs seriously tightened up, millions are being wasted on it and it is unsustainable. Its the charlatans that are messing it up for those in genuine need.

Easily fixed. Offer 1K reward for evidence of anyone found scrounging benefits they aren't entitled to. Race to the bottom there....

nah man, no touting allowed. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on March 11, 2015, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 11, 2015, 09:14:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 11, 2015, 09:09:04 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 11, 2015, 08:58:35 PM
Its a system that needs seriously tightened up, millions are being wasted on it and it is unsustainable. Its the charlatans that are messing it up for those in genuine need.

Easily fixed. Offer 1K reward for evidence of anyone found scrounging benefits they aren't entitled to. Race to the bottom there....

nah man, no touting allowed. ;)

Aw shite...plenty of people I'd love to grass up and make a fortune :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 11, 2015, 09:51:14 PM
To get back to the hot story of the moment - how much damage has been done to SF as a result of the McGahon case.
Especially it being dealt with "in house" like the Catholic Church used to do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on March 11, 2015, 10:11:33 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 11, 2015, 10:00:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2015, 09:51:14 PM
To get back to the hot story of the moment - how much damage has been done to SF as a result of the McGahon case.
Especially it being dealt with "in house" like the Catholic Church used to do.
I'd say little to none.

Shinners must have very low standards for this not to have done any damage.
What sort of Ireland would we live in with that shower in power - just ignore the law of the land when it doesn't suit?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 10:28:59 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 11, 2015, 10:11:33 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 11, 2015, 10:00:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2015, 09:51:14 PM
To get back to the hot story of the moment - how much damage has been done to SF as a result of the McGahon case.
Especially it being dealt with "in house" like the Catholic Church used to do.
I'd say little to none.

Shinners must have very low standards for this not to have done any damage.
What sort of Ireland would we live in with that shower in power - just ignore the law of the land when it doesn't suit?
Hardstation is right. For some reason, SF supporters seem willing to stand by the party no matter what. I'd be surprised if this did any real damage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on March 11, 2015, 10:38:07 PM
I'd go even further. Because of the way Sinn Fein's political opponents jump on any scandal or serious misdemeanours in a disingenuous manner, it strengthen SF.

You can see it already in many media outlets. Instead of earnestly addressing the issue in hand, opponents start using it to win votes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 10:42:59 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 11, 2015, 10:38:07 PM
I'd go even further. Because of the way Sinn Fein's political opponents jump on any scandal or serious misdemeanours in a disingenuous manner, it strengthen SF.

You can see it already in many media outlets. Instead of earnestly addressing the issue in hand, opponents start using it to win votes.
How exactly should they react? Without criticising the party?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 11, 2015, 10:56:04 PM
Whatever about the North it will certainly lose them some potential voters in the 26.
Will also mean more difficulty in getting transfers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on March 11, 2015, 10:59:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 10:42:59 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 11, 2015, 10:38:07 PM
I'd go even further. Because of the way Sinn Fein's political opponents jump on any scandal or serious misdemeanours in a disingenuous manner, it strengthen SF.

You can see it already in many media outlets. Instead of earnestly addressing the issue in hand, opponents start using it to win votes.
How exactly should they react? Without criticising the party?

Watch Stormont Live this week or buy Sunday's Dublin papers. There'll be very little real empathy with the case in hand. Dorty politics I suppose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on March 11, 2015, 11:16:15 PM
Sinn Fein are a smooth operating machine. mcguinness is the best at this, he is a very charming man.

Even if he go back to Adams' father and the Cahill case, these have simply been brushed under the table. Now imagine, God forbid, this person went on to abuse other poor boys and girls in England. It would be absolutely terrible; however the slick Shinner system will kick in to make sure it has minimal affect again.

Were the McGahon's a Republican family whom gave shelter to volunteers throughout the years? I'm not 100% certain from what I read. If this is a case not only has this man took the innocence of a person; but also used his status within the IRA to threaten him if he spoke out and misplaced the trust the family has shown to the IRA over all the years.

Look at the Francie Molly tweet last night. He categorically came out and said Spotlight was rubbish, after a phone call from Gerry he rebukes this. Sinn Fein supporters seem not to be allowed to think for themselves and must toe-the-line in cases. Molloy obviously thought that a programme which is criticising the Shinners is wrong and just like in every other occasion, they come out lambasting it; however the Shinners have agreed with the programme on this occasion.

Gerry must use the same book as his 'I never was in the IRA' for his 'I don't know this IRA member who abused this boy and I don't know where in England he is'
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on March 11, 2015, 11:20:16 PM
1. Bullet to his head
2. In a room with him with any implement you want
3. Exile

The three options offered to the victims. What would you choose?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on March 11, 2015, 11:37:08 PM
Did he? 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on March 11, 2015, 11:40:16 PM
Yip. My mistake. Just not the whereabouts in England apparently   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on March 12, 2015, 01:03:26 AM
In all the cases we are hearing the rapists get sent someplace else where they are free to prey on other children. It is the exact same approach as the Catholic Church. I've seen comments by Sinn Fein supporters all over the place praising the justice meted out, as if its simply ok to banish them someplace else. The twisted logic is pure sickness. This will not cost Sinn Fein any votes because there's something deeply perverse at the heart of Irish Catholic identity when it comes to sexual abuse, whether it be Sinn Fein, Cardinal Brady or Irish families that simply cover it up. It's probably no coincidence that most of the sexual abuse in the Catholic Church in US was committed by Irish born or Irish American clerics. It probably all stems from the repression and unhealthy attitude to sex that Catholicism brought into this country. Not saying it's not prevalent in other religions and cultures. But our culture is infested with it, with both the sick twisted perpetrators and their rotten enablers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 12, 2015, 06:54:50 AM
Quote from: ONeill on March 11, 2015, 10:59:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 11, 2015, 10:42:59 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 11, 2015, 10:38:07 PM
I'd go even further. Because of the way Sinn Fein's political opponents jump on any scandal or serious misdemeanours in a disingenuous manner, it strengthen SF.

You can see it already in many media outlets. Instead of earnestly addressing the issue in hand, opponents start using it to win votes.
How exactly should they react? Without criticising the party?

Watch Stormont Live this week or buy Sunday's Dublin papers. There'll be very little real empathy with the case in hand. Dorty politics I suppose.
That doesn't answer my question though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 13, 2015, 10:24:47 PM
You have to admire the brass neck of SF standing on picket lines with workers who are protesting against SF's budget.  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on March 13, 2015, 10:33:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2015, 10:24:47 PM
You have to admire the brass neck of SF standing on picket lines with workers who are protesting against SF's budget.  ::)

Yeah no shame, O'Dowd said this earlier this week -

"But this [strike] is part of an opposition to the Stormont House Agreement, and I think that's a mistake. There is a fundamental mistake in the strategy of the unions that are being opposed to the Stormont House Agreement. I supported the Stormont House Agreement, so it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to turn round and support strike action against the Stormont House Agreement"


It didn't stop the rest of them. The politicians were roundly booed apparently at City Hall


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 13, 2015, 10:51:25 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 13, 2015, 10:33:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2015, 10:24:47 PM
You have to admire the brass neck of SF standing on picket lines with workers who are protesting against SF's budget.  ::)

Yeah no shame, O'Dowd said this earlier this week -


In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King, O'Dowd has a modicum of credibility.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 13, 2015, 11:22:37 PM
I see Marty and Peter are all mates again as "officials" work on sorting out their differences over welfare cuts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on March 14, 2015, 12:53:41 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2015, 10:24:47 PM
You have to admire the brass neck of SF standing on picket lines with workers who are protesting against SF's budget.  ::)

George Orwell couldn't write the script.

Sure they would show up for the opening of an envelope if they thought they would have their picture taken.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 16, 2015, 08:51:24 PM
Is the Sinn Fein default setting to lie? Earlier in the day they said the State Dept had requested a meeting but Gerry couldn't fit them into his diary !  ::)




http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31904651


Adams criticises US State Department over refusal to meet him


The Sinn Féin president has criticised the US State Department over its refusal to meet him.
A planned meeting between Gerry Adams and a high level US State Department official in Washington will not happen.

Earlier, the BBC reported Sinn Féin had denied a snub. The party had said that Mr Adams had been unable to attend a meeting on Monday.
However a few hours later, speaking in New York, Mr Adams said it was "no skin off my nose" not to meet the official.

"The State Department's handling of the issue of a meeting with me is bizarre. It serves no purpose other than to distract attention from the main issue. That is the full implementation of the Stormont House Agreement.
"That is Sinn Féin's main focus. And Martin McGuinness and Peter Robinson are working on this as we speak.
"It is no skin off my nose not to meet the State Department. I am more concerned with protecting the rights and entitlements of citizens back home. That will remain Sinn Féin's firm objective," Mr Adams added.

"Bizarre"
Mr Adams' statement follows earlier comments from his party colleague Conor Murphy who had denied there had been a snub. Mr Murphy said: "Gerry Adams was actually asked for a meeting today by the State Department.
"He's in New York city today, he's unable to go Washington until tomorrow and so no other meeting has been confirmed after that.

"But he will be at the White House tomorrow for the St Patrick's Day celebration."
At the weekend, First Minister Peter Robinson and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness cancelled plans to go to the US to meet President Obama on St Patrick's Day.
However, Mr Adams has travelled to the US.
Sources said he was to have held a meeting with a senior State Department official, among other engagements.

It follows developments at Stormont last week when Sinn Féin withdrew support for the welfare reform bill.

In a statement issued last week, former US senator Gary Hart urged all parties to reach an understanding on the scope of the Stormont House Agreement "so that a successful series of meetings planned for St Patrick's Day can go forward as planned in Washington".
It is understood State Department officials will meet the Ulster Unionist leader Mike Nesbitt and the SDLP leader Alasdair McDonnell later on Monday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on March 18, 2015, 12:25:30 AM
http://www.votewatch.eu/blog/all-eu-parliamentarians-except-communists-endorse-international-efforts-against-isis/ (http://www.votewatch.eu/blog/all-eu-parliamentarians-except-communists-endorse-international-efforts-against-isis/)

The EU condemned the actions of ISIS and passed a resolution calling for the protection of the affected minorities such as Christians and Yazidis, and also called for the creation of a safe haven for these groups, among other resolutions.

Now get this.....

Sinn Féin voted against it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on March 18, 2015, 02:34:46 AM
I see Martina Anderson and co are in Tel Aviv. No doubt checking out how their friend Issac Herzog is doing in the election.  Of course it will be spun that they are there to go to Gaza. ....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 06, 2015, 05:54:52 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0406/692369-gerry-adams/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0406/692369-gerry-adams/)

Think your man is bang on the money. What else are we just going to chalk down as acts of war? Imagine Cameron or Blair having the balls to tell us Bloody Sunday "just happens in war" or that the hunger strikers were merely casualties of war.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2015, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 18, 2015, 02:34:46 AM
I see Martina Anderson and co are in Tel Aviv. No doubt checking out how their friend Issac Herzog is doing in the election.  Of course it will be spun that they are there to go to Gaza. ....
If ever proof was needed that sf are completely removed from the IRA
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on April 06, 2015, 10:41:43 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 06, 2015, 05:54:52 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0406/692369-gerry-adams/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0406/692369-gerry-adams/)

Think your man is bang on the money. What else are we just going to chalk down as acts of war? Imagine Cameron or Blair having the balls to tell us Bloody Sunday "just happens in war" or that the hunger strikers were merely casualties of war.

  Absolutely disgusting remark from Adams.
He has a heart of stone.
Would love to see him getting locked up!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on April 07, 2015, 09:00:22 AM
Thought that was naive of Adams as it undermines an awful lot of families who are campaigning for inquiries into incidents where their loved ones were executed by the state.
U can't have differences between the two sides .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on April 07, 2015, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.

You're conveniently ignoring that they played judge and jury in addition to their role ad executioner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?

Shooting an informer/spy during a war is a 'war crime'? No I wouldn't consider that a war crime.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 07, 2015, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.

You're conveniently ignoring that they played judge and jury in addition to their role ad executioner.

I'm not ignoring anything. In the context of war, conflict or whatever you want to call it, summary justice is usually all one can expect.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?

Shooting an informer/spy during a war is a 'war crime'? No I wouldn't consider that a war crime.
Although Nuala O'Loan concluded there was no evidence that she was an informer.... and does the disappearance of the body not constitute a war crime?

Either way, that's a side issue to the point I was responding to. It's quite possible that Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price may be wrong on one point (that Jean McConville was an informer) and correct on another (i.e. who was involved). There's no logic that says either both elements of their account are either right or both elements are wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 07, 2015, 02:40:01 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 07, 2015, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.

You're conveniently ignoring that they played judge and jury in addition to their role ad executioner.

I'm not ignoring anything. In the context of war, conflict or whatever you want to call it, summary justice is usually all one can expect.

It's been a while since I read it so I maybe wrong but were you not promoting/running a website campaign for justice for some IRA members shot dead?

Was that not just something that happens in war?

/Jim
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on April 07, 2015, 02:51:28 PM
It was only a war when it suits
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 07, 2015, 03:02:02 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 07, 2015, 02:51:28 PM
It was only a war when it suits

I remember the Guardian hack Michael White wading into the news that there would be no inquiry into the murder/killing of Pat Finucane with an airy dismissal of any concerns. It was a war, what did you expect? He also threw in the canard about the emotional Micks and how unreasonable they could be. It was a theme he carried on in comments. If you objected, that proved you were an emotional Mick. The weird thing is that I managed to be surprised that a writer on a lefty paper like the Graun could file something that wouldn't look out of place in the Torygraph. Why was I surprised at anything from Fleet Street on the subject?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 03:07:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
Although Nuala O'Loan concluded there was no evidence that she was an informer.... and does the disappearance of the body not constitute a war crime?

Either way, that's a side issue to the point I was responding to. It's quite possible that Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price may be wrong on one point (that Jean McConville was an informer) and correct on another (i.e. who was involved). There's no logic that says either both elements of their account are either right or both elements are wrong.

Of course they may have been wrong (as may O'Loan also) on either point but if you are going to talk about war crimes then that is all besides the point anyway. The point being that they (Hughes/Price/IRA/Adams/Whomever) believed that under the circumstances and available evidence that she was an informer. Therefore it was probably justifiable in their eyes that it was militarily necessary and proportional that she be executed - given that she had been warned previously to no effect. I'm not a lawyer but I think to prove it a war crime you'd have to prove they knew she wasn't an informer, come up with a reasonable motive and some evidence to show they knew she wasn't an informer. I've yet to see any of this.

I don't know if the disappearance of the body is a war crime, but that's not the act which has been under discussion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on April 07, 2015, 03:12:29 PM
The summary execution of someone isn't a war crime? Interesting perspective there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 07, 2015, 02:40:01 PM
It's been a while since I read it so I maybe wrong but were you not promoting/running a website campaign for justice for some IRA members shot dead?

Was that not just something that happens in war?

/Jim

I was Jim, the families were looking an inquest and disclosure as to what happened  when they were killed. The McConvilles deserve the same - and I believe some of their family members were given some disclosure of events (however limited).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 03:23:18 PM
Today in 1919

"On 7 April 1919, Broy smuggled Collins into G Division's archives in Great Brunswick Street (now Pearse Street), enabling him to identify "G-Men", six of whom would be killed by the IRA."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eamon_Broy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eamon_Broy)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 03:41:10 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 07, 2015, 02:40:01 PM
It's been a while since I read it so I maybe wrong but were you not promoting/running a website campaign for justice for some IRA members shot dead?

Was that not just something that happens in war?

/Jim

I was Jim, the families were looking an inquest and disclosure as to what happened  when they were killed. The McConvilles deserve the same - and I believe some of their family members were given some disclosure of events (however limited).
I actually wouldn't be actively persuing these inquests on either side as imo it is pointless. Maybe not to the families immediately concerned and connected, but what good will come of any inquest. Those dead are dead. Practically all evidence is too difficult to collect and cases impossible to prove.
This was war. Terrible things happened on both sides, nothing trumps death. Instigators or retaliators - does it matter now.
People are coming out of the woodwork to whinge and moan about it all. It's done. It's over. Slow progression is still being made. Where we have gotten to would never have been possible without the intervention of militant republicans - sadly. By the same token the modern British governments have accepted that previous policy in the six counties was wrong and without their modern day help, peace was a long way off.
I'm just happy the bad old days are gone. It's not perfect now and the six counties is just an economic backwater and sihthole like many other backwards places in the world. That's the reality. I know many won't agree, but for many others who had their fill of and enough of the bad old days - it's time to move on and consign history to the books.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on April 07, 2015, 05:42:05 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 03:41:10 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 07, 2015, 02:40:01 PM
It's been a while since I read it so I maybe wrong but were you not promoting/running a website campaign for justice for some IRA members shot dead?

Was that not just something that happens in war?

/Jim

I was Jim, the families were looking an inquest and disclosure as to what happened  when they were killed. The McConvilles deserve the same - and I believe some of their family members were given some disclosure of events (however limited).
I actually wouldn't be actively persuing these inquests on either side as imo it is pointless. Maybe not to the families immediately concerned and connected, but what good will come of any inquest. Those dead are dead. Practically all evidence is too difficult to collect and cases impossible to prove.
This was war. Terrible things happened on both sides, nothing trumps death. Instigators or retaliators - does it matter now.
People are coming out of the woodwork to whinge and moan about it all. It's done. It's over. Slow progression is still being made. Where we have gotten to would never have been possible without the intervention of militant republicans - sadly. By the same token the modern British governments have accepted that previous policy in the six counties was wrong and without their modern day help, peace was a long way off.
I'm just happy the bad old days are gone. It's not perfect now and the six counties is just an economic backwater and sihthole like many other backwards places in the world. That's the reality. I know many won't agree, but for many others who had their fill of and enough of the bad old days - it's time to move on and consign history to the books.

I'm sure you felt the same about Bloody Sunday, yes?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 07:20:16 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 07, 2015, 05:42:05 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 03:41:10 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 07, 2015, 02:40:01 PM
It's been a while since I read it so I maybe wrong but were you not promoting/running a website campaign for justice for some IRA members shot dead?

Was that not just something that happens in war?

/Jim

I was Jim, the families were looking an inquest and disclosure as to what happened  when they were killed. The McConvilles deserve the same - and I believe some of their family members were given some disclosure of events (however limited).
I actually wouldn't be actively persuing these inquests on either side as imo it is pointless. Maybe not to the families immediately concerned and connected, but what good will come of any inquest. Those dead are dead. Practically all evidence is too difficult to collect and cases impossible to prove.
This was war. Terrible things happened on both sides, nothing trumps death. Instigators or retaliators - does it matter now.
People are coming out of the woodwork to whinge and moan about it all. It's done. It's over. Slow progression is still being made. Where we have gotten to would never have been possible without the intervention of militant republicans - sadly. By the same token the modern British governments have accepted that previous policy in the six counties was wrong and without their modern day help, peace was a long way off.
I'm just happy the bad old days are gone. It's not perfect now and the six counties is just an economic backwater and sihthole like many other backwards places in the world. That's the reality. I know many won't agree, but for many others who had their fill of and enough of the bad old days - it's time to move on and consign history to the books.

I'm sure you felt the same about Bloody Sunday, yes?
Actually yes

I didn't think they would have gotten anywhere , especially after so long and especially since it was so cut and dried obvious as to what happened with evidence everywhere.

But look at the effort it took to get to that point and how long. That's just not practical for the rest of the cases for both sides of the war.

So yes, I did feel that way about Bloody Sunday.
Maybe it was apathy. I'm also delighted for the families that they got their apology. For me that apology extended to the wider nationalist/irish/catholic /working class people for the centuries of torment etc endured.

I think it's pointless persuing more though .

Sorry if that response fecks up your argument.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 07, 2015, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?

Shooting an informer/spy during a war is a 'war crime'? No I wouldn't consider that a war crime.

You would no doubt accept all casualties caused by British and Loyalist forces as well?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 07, 2015, 10:26:04 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?

Shooting an informer/spy during a war is a 'war crime'? No I wouldn't consider that a war crime.

So do you chalk down the death of the hunger strikers as "something that happens in war"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 11:08:20 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 07, 2015, 10:26:04 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?

Shooting an informer/spy during a war is a 'war crime'? No I wouldn't consider that a war crime.

So do you chalk down the death of the hunger strikers as "something that happens in war"?
Why
Would you not?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 08, 2015, 09:12:05 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 07:20:16 PM
Actually yes

I didn't think they would have gotten anywhere , especially after so long and especially since it was so cut and dried obvious as to what happened with evidence everywhere.

But look at the effort it took to get to that point and how long. That's just not practical for the rest of the cases for both sides of the war.

So yes, I did feel that way about Bloody Sunday.
Maybe it was apathy. I'm also delighted for the families that they got their apology. For me that apology extended to the wider nationalist/irish/catholic /working class people for the centuries of torment etc endured.

I think it's pointless persuing more though .

Sorry if that response fecks up your argument.

Liar.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 08, 2015, 09:24:52 AM
Christ's sake, the more I think about it . . . will the Shinner need to gloss over the IRA's atrocities now mean that the victims of Bloody Sunday and Aidan McAnespie and Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson and Majella O'Hare and God knows how many others will have to be written off as casualties of war? Screw you, Shinner scum, and the horse you rode in on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 08, 2015, 10:22:44 AM
Quote from: deiseach on April 08, 2015, 09:12:05 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 07:20:16 PM
Actually yes

I didn't think they would have gotten anywhere , especially after so long and especially since it was so cut and dried obvious as to what happened with evidence everywhere.

But look at the effort it took to get to that point and how long. That's just not practical for the rest of the cases for both sides of the war.

So yes, I did feel that way about Bloody Sunday.
Maybe it was apathy. I'm also delighted for the families that they got their apology. For me that apology extended to the wider nationalist/irish/catholic /working class people for the centuries of torment etc endured.

I think it's pointless persuing more though .

Sorry if that response fecks up your argument.

Liar.
you are a bit of a w***r then I see.

the post contains my accurate sentiment.

but your powers of debating and comprehension demonstrate exactly what you are.

well done!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 08, 2015, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: deiseach on April 08, 2015, 09:24:52 AM
Christ's sake, the more I think about it . . . will the Shinner need to gloss over the IRA's atrocities now mean that the victims of Bloody Sunday and Aidan McAnespie and Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson and Majella O'Hare and God knows how many others will have to be written off as casualties of war? Screw you, Shinner scum, and the horse you rode in on.
fcuk all to do with sf

some of these were killings that the IRA were involved with. some should not have happened.
but that's war. you wouldn't understand. you've shown your levels of (mis)comprehension already.

stick to whinging about soccer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on April 08, 2015, 05:00:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 08, 2015, 09:24:52 AM
Christ's sake, the more I think about it . . . will the Shinner need to gloss over the IRA's atrocities now mean that the victims of Bloody Sunday and Aidan McAnespie and Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson and Majella O'Hare and God knows how many others will have to be written off as casualties of war? Screw you, Shinner scum, and the horse you rode in on.

I love how free staters give lessons on the north...it's amazing what they seem to learn by watching a couple of Prime Time documentaries.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 08, 2015, 05:11:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 11:08:20 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 07, 2015, 10:26:04 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?

Shooting an informer/spy during a war is a 'war crime'? No I wouldn't consider that a war crime.

So do you chalk down the death of the hunger strikers as "something that happens in war"?
Why
Would you not?
No. I wouldn't deem their deaths as an acceptable action by a ruling government.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 08, 2015, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2015, 05:11:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 11:08:20 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 07, 2015, 10:26:04 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?

Shooting an informer/spy during a war is a 'war crime'? No I wouldn't consider that a war crime.

So do you chalk down the death of the hunger strikers as "something that happens in war"?
Why
Would you not?
No. I wouldn't deem their deaths as an acceptable action.
Fair enough.
They volunteered for the hunger strike and had their reasons- war and the heightened tensions being a significant contributory factor.
So in that regard Id say their deaths highly regrettable -but not so much unacceptable.

I think their deaths had a positive influence in the following years imo.

But that's just one opinion. Id expect the polar opposite and more exist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 08, 2015, 05:32:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 08, 2015, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2015, 05:11:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 11:08:20 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 07, 2015, 10:26:04 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?

Shooting an informer/spy during a war is a 'war crime'? No I wouldn't consider that a war crime.

So do you chalk down the death of the hunger strikers as "something that happens in war"?
Why
Would you not?
No. I wouldn't deem their deaths as an acceptable action.
Fair enough.
They volunteered for the hunger strike and had their reasons- war and the heightened tensions being a significant contributory factor.
So in that regard Id say their deaths highly regrettable -but not so much unacceptable.

I think their deaths had a positive influence in the following years imo.

But that's just one opinion. Id expect the polar opposite and more exist.
Without trawling through all the events of the troubles here but would it be fair to say you consider the death of Pat Finucane and those men on Bloody Sunday as "regrettable but not unacceptable".

I'm not WUMing here, I'm just interested where you draw the line.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 08, 2015, 06:42:25 PM
Looks like Jude has been pondering this as well.



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Five things I learnt inside twenty minutes

By Jude Collins on April 8, 2015  18

I'm fresh (??) off the Nolan Show on BBC Radio Ulster/Raidio Uladh. I'd say I was on for twenty minutes roughly; but it's amazing what you can learn in a short time. I learned five things.

1. Quite a few politicians and commentators who express compassion for the lonely death of Jean McConville are shedding crocodile tears. I say this because when I raised the killing of Joan Connolly a year earlier –  a British paratrooper  blew half of her face away – it was ignored. How could anyone feeling genuine sympathy for Jean McConville not have sympathy for Joan Connolly too? Jean McConville left ten motherless children behind her, Joan Connolly left eight. Why have we not heard more about the death of Joan Connolly and her children, especially since she was killed by a man whose salary we paid?

2. Listening to my verbal opponent Ruth Dudley Edwards, it became clearer than ever that she didn't have Jean McConville and her family in mind. She had  in mind the use of Jean McConville and her family as a political weapon for use against the hated Gerry Adams and Sinn Féin.

3. People here are obsessed with language. Was the Troubles a period of war or a period of conflict? Was the death of Jean McConville murder or can we call it something else?  This obsession with semantics has nothing to do with compassion for victims or even interest in language and everything to do with 'It-was-all-youse-uns-fault'.

4. People pretend not to hear what is inconvenient. When I said that republicans were politically motivated in the violence they carried out and that ten men had died on hunger strike in support of that notion, it was as if I'd said "I'd like a cup of tea". In fact if I had said "I'd like a cup of tea" it almost certainly would have received more attention.

5. I used to  believe that what-aboutery was a diversionary tactic; now I'm  less sure. In Ruth Dudley Edwards's eyes, to raise the death of Joan Connolly as a parallel to the death of Jean McConville was to engage, she said,  in what-aboutery. My view was that raising of Joan Connolly's death and its instant dismissal by those on the programme showed how selective is the moral wrath that cries "Horror!" in the face of a mother's death but cannot bear for that death to be set in a wider context.

If I wasn't so dense I'd have learnt these lessons long ago. In conservative/establishment politics, lies are truth and distortion is a straight line. If you doubt that, think of the emerging Kincora-Westminster sexual abuse scandal and the line/lies we've been fed about it for years
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 08, 2015, 06:45:06 PM
I would say Jude is pondering what he is told to ponder
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 08, 2015, 07:04:32 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 08, 2015, 06:42:25 PM
Looks like Jude has been pondering this as well.



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Five things I learnt inside twenty minutes

By Jude Collins on April 8, 2015  18

I'm fresh (??) off the Nolan Show on BBC Radio Ulster/Raidio Uladh. I'd say I was on for twenty minutes roughly; but it's amazing what you can learn in a short time. I learned five things.

1. Quite a few politicians and commentators who express compassion for the lonely death of Jean McConville are shedding crocodile tears. I say this because when I raised the killing of Joan Connolly a year earlier –  a British paratrooper  blew half of her face away – it was ignored. How could anyone feeling genuine sympathy for Jean McConville not have sympathy for Joan Connolly too? Jean McConville left ten motherless children behind her, Joan Connolly left eight. Why have we not heard more about the death of Joan Connolly and her children, especially since she was killed by a man whose salary we paid?

2. Listening to my verbal opponent Ruth Dudley Edwards, it became clearer than ever that she didn't have Jean McConville and her family in mind. She had  in mind the use of Jean McConville and her family as a political weapon for use against the hated Gerry Adams and Sinn Féin.

3. People here are obsessed with language. Was the Troubles a period of war or a period of conflict? Was the death of Jean McConville murder or can we call it something else?  This obsession with semantics has nothing to do with compassion for victims or even interest in language and everything to do with 'It-was-all-youse-uns-fault'.

4. People pretend not to hear what is inconvenient. When I said that republicans were politically motivated in the violence they carried out and that ten men had died on hunger strike in support of that notion, it was as if I'd said "I'd like a cup of tea". In fact if I had said "I'd like a cup of tea" it almost certainly would have received more attention.

5. I used to  believe that what-aboutery was a diversionary tactic; now I'm  less sure. In Ruth Dudley Edwards's eyes, to raise the death of Joan Connolly as a parallel to the death of Jean McConville was to engage, she said,  in what-aboutery. My view was that raising of Joan Connolly's death and its instant dismissal by those on the programme showed how selective is the moral wrath that cries "Horror!" in the face of a mother's death but cannot bear for that death to be set in a wider context.

If I wasn't so dense I'd have learnt these lessons long ago. In conservative/establishment politics, lies are truth and distortion is a straight line. If you doubt that, think of the emerging Kincora-Westminster sexual abuse scandal and the line/lies we've been fed about it for years

Pointing to another victim of another atrocity is merely highlighting another atrocity.

But it is not an argument to justify the last one.

Why an otherwise intelligent poster like yourself seems to think it is amazes me. The only conclusion I can draw is that this is the official line and everyone must stick to it. No matter how absurd it looks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 08, 2015, 08:55:21 PM
No, the point is:
1. none of you could really give a flying f**k about Jean McConville really. You might pretend different but the fact you only see fit to drag her out of the grave when Denis O'Brien tells you is proof enough of that.
2. her killing/murder/execution was politically motivated in a time of conflict. Now you can split hairs over circumstances and terms such as 'war crimes' but the fact is those who killed her were not random bloodthirsty murderers but were acting with a clear sense of purpose and in all likelihood detested the act and themselves for what they felt they had to do.
3. both states on this island where build on similar acts. Nasty horrible things happen in war/conflict and the vast majority of people here recognise that. For all that feigned anger and disgust poured out on social media and Internet forums, you really know there was nothing really that outlandish about what Adams said.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on April 08, 2015, 09:15:56 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 08, 2015, 08:55:21 PM
No, the point is:
1. none of you could really give a flying f**k about Jean McConville really. You might pretend different but the fact you only see fit to drag her out of the grave when Denis O'Brien tells you is proof enough of that.
2. her killing/murder/execution was politically motivated in a time of conflict. Now you can split hairs over circumstances and terms such as 'war crimes' but the fact is those who killed her were not random bloodthirsty murderers but were acting with a clear sense of purpose and in all likelihood detested the act and themselves for what they felt they had to do.
3. both states on this island where build on similar acts. Nasty horrible things happen in war/conflict and the vast majority of people here recognise that. For all that feigned anger and disgust poured out on social media and Internet forums, you really know there was nothing really that outlandish about what Adams said.

+1.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 08, 2015, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2015, 05:32:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 08, 2015, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2015, 05:11:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 07, 2015, 11:08:20 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 07, 2015, 10:26:04 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on April 07, 2015, 08:17:12 AM
You can't have it both ways lads. The McConville family say Adams has information on her because Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price said that as a senior member of the IRA in Belfast he would have be aware of what's going on. However the same two people also said she was shot for being an informer after previously being warned. So either they're right, she was an informer and yes in a war situation any side would have to do the same and execute her, or they're wrong, and the family have no evidence to be connecting Adams to this.
Well no actually, it's quite possible that they could be right on one count and wrong on the other. And either way, if it was a war, it's still a war crime, is it not?

Shooting an informer/spy during a war is a 'war crime'? No I wouldn't consider that a war crime.

So do you chalk down the death of the hunger strikers as "something that happens in war"?
Why
Would you not?
No. I wouldn't deem their deaths as an acceptable action.
Fair enough.
They volunteered for the hunger strike and had their reasons- war and the heightened tensions being a significant contributory factor.
So in that regard Id say their deaths highly regrettable -but not so much unacceptable.

I think their deaths had a positive influence in the following years imo.

But that's just one opinion. Id expect the polar opposite and more exist.
Without trawling through all the events of the troubles here but would it be fair to say you consider the death of Pat Finucane and those men on Bloody Sunday as "regrettable but not unacceptable".

I'm not WUMing here, I'm just interested where you draw the line.
I suppose since ceasefire . Everything is now in the past. All events , violence, deaths etc were terrible on both sides but that's war and violent conflict for you.

Maybe it could be summed up by saying ' the past is in the past' and we've drawn a line under it. I don't think any positives can be obtained from trawling through the dark old past - esp as there's no proof or evidence or even appetite to dredge it up.

I'd be a sympathizer of Finnucane and hunger strikers. But what can be done. All regrettable and in the past.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 08, 2015, 11:47:19 PM
Quote from: Ulick on April 08, 2015, 08:55:21 PM
No, the point is:
1. none of you could really give a flying f**k about Jean McConville really. You might pretend different but the fact you only see fit to drag her out of the grave when Denis O'Brien tells you is proof enough of that.
2. her killing/murder/execution was politically motivated in a time of conflict. Now you can split hairs over circumstances and terms such as 'war crimes' but the fact is those who killed her were not random bloodthirsty murderers but were acting with a clear sense of purpose and in all likelihood detested the act and themselves for what they felt they had to do.
3. both states on this island where build on similar acts. Nasty horrible things happen in war/conflict and the vast majority of people here recognise that. For all that feigned anger and disgust poured out on social media and Internet forums, you really know there was nothing really that outlandish about what Adams said.

I think you pulled that out of your ass (how would you know what they felt lest you were involved) but if it is then I think even less of those who took her away. To know how morally depraved your actions were but to carry it through anyway is worse than just doing it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 07:55:02 AM
On Planet Shinner, a politically motivated killing must not be used for political purposes. Nasty and stupid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 10:16:23 AM
Again, when I think about it, to see the movement that dragged out the hunger strikes so they could make political hay objecting to people making political hay out of the fate of those who were disappeared (and let us not forget that for an Irish Catholic to deny someone the chance to bury their dead is the most grievous insult of them all) . . . I don't which is worse, that they manage to keep a straight face when peddling their bullshit or the possibility that they actually believe their own bullshit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 09, 2015, 11:07:10 AM
Quote from: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 07:55:02 AM
On Planet Shinner, a politically motivated killing must not be used for political purposes. Nasty and stupid.

On planet Deiseach an event which occurred 40 years ago during a war can be germane in a political argument today.

There wasnt a single sinner in the republic, including you, who gave one flying f*** about Jean McConville until Sinn Fein started getting a share of the votes. And you have the effrontery to talk about bullshit.

Sickening hypocrites.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2015, 11:18:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 09, 2015, 11:07:10 AM

There wasnt a single sinner in the republic, including you, who gave one flying f*** about Jean McConville until Sinn Fein started getting a share of the votes. And you have the effrontery to talk about bullshit.

So we should pretend she never existed and nothing untoward happened to her???.
And do the same about Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson and a few thousand other non combatants across all spectrums???
I thought SF wanted a Truth and Reconciliation body??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 09, 2015, 11:07:10 AM
On planet Deiseach an event which occurred 40 years ago during a war can be germane in a political argument today.

Yeah, it absolutely is relevant today. We're having constant discussions about how to treat an event that took place 99 years ago. That's real politics, bucko. If you can't stand the heat, piss off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 11:30:41 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2015, 11:18:13 AM
So we should pretend she never existed and nothing untoward happened to her???.
And do the same about Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson and a few thousand other non combatants across all spectrums???
I thought SF wanted a Truth and Reconciliation body??

The laughable thing is that they can't see how they are mirror images of the kind of weasels who write for the Daily Heil or the Torygraph. Our guys execute, your guys murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2015, 11:39:29 AM
Some of them get very nasty when people criticise them.
Obviously those are not used to anyone answering them back  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 11:50:38 AM
And there was me about to tell them to get their f***ing shinebox. Probably safer not to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 12:04:58 PM
This is the last 'and by the way' I'm going to do in this particular round, but I can't resist noting that the logic of this particular strain of Shinner revisionism means we can look forward to them refraining from referring to Fine Gael supporters as Blueshirts. Can't use 80+ year old insults against them!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 09, 2015, 12:14:08 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 12:04:58 PM
This is the last 'and by the way' I'm going to do in this particular round, but I can't resist noting that the logic of this particular strain of Shinner revisionism means we can look forward to them refraining from referring to Fine Gael supporters as Blueshirts. Can't use 80+ year old insults against them!

Failing that, they should be required to allow "that shouldn't have happened" as a valid washing of hands on the part of said FG supporters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on April 09, 2015, 12:17:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 08, 2015, 05:00:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 08, 2015, 09:24:52 AM
Christ's sake, the more I think about it . . . will the Shinner need to gloss over the IRA's atrocities now mean that the victims of Bloody Sunday and Aidan McAnespie and Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson and Majella O'Hare and God knows how many others will have to be written off as casualties of war? Screw you, Shinner scum, and the horse you rode in on.

I love how free staters give lessons on the north...it's amazing what they seem to learn by watching a couple of Prime Time documentaries.

And I love how lads like yourself give us lessons in how to run the country, or should I say the Free State. Sauce for the goose and all that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 09, 2015, 12:18:35 PM
No, Jean McConville is no less important than Pat Finucane or Rosemary Nelson in my eyes.

The latter two though are clearly much less important in the eyes of the quisling commentators who have never given them a thought except to bring them up to use as political pawns to justify their McConville campaign. Despicable.

Can you clowns stop pretending you know anything about what went on here during the troubles as you clearly have no conception of what the situation was. You're embarassing yourselves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on April 09, 2015, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 09, 2015, 12:18:35 PM
Can you clowns stop pretending you know anything about what went on here during the troubles as you clearly have no conception of what the situation was. You're embarassing yourselves.

Personally I'd like to know a little more about the situation (especially incidents like Jean McConville) before I vote for the same people into Government down here.

Otherwise they can stay up there AFAIC

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 09, 2015, 12:28:31 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 09, 2015, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 09, 2015, 12:18:35 PM
Can you clowns stop pretending you know anything about what went on here during the troubles as you clearly have no conception of what the situation was. You're embarassing yourselves.

Personally I'd like to know a little more about the situation (especially incidents like Jean McConville) before I vote for the same people into Government down here.

Otherwise they can stay up there AFAIC
Can I ask why especially this case?

Is she more important than any of the dozens of other 'informers' the Provos shot? And werent many of these people shot in the wrong because the people doing the shooting were special branch agents? So actually it's the brits who were responsible, not the IRA. Or Sinn Fein.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 09, 2015, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 09, 2015, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 09, 2015, 12:18:35 PM
Can you clowns stop pretending you know anything about what went on here during the troubles as you clearly have no conception of what the situation was. You're embarassing yourselves.

Personally I'd like to know a little more about the situation (especially incidents like Jean McConville) before I vote for the same people into Government down here.

Otherwise they can stay up there AFAIC

the same people?
are you thinking about it at all?
the IRA are not the same as sf.

sf in the north are not the same as sf in the south - imo , no matter how hard sf try to say they are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 12:43:20 PM
It's impossible to resist all this low-hanging fruit. Here we are, being lectured on the geographical impossibility of understanding politics on our own island from a political movement that makes common cause with people in places as diverse as Iberia and the Levant ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on April 09, 2015, 12:52:39 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 12:43:20 PM
It's impossible to resist all this low-hanging fruit. Here we are, being lectured on the geographical impossibility of understanding politics on our own island from a political movement that makes common cause with people in places as diverse as Iberia and the Levant ;D

you can never escape the fact that the majority of people in the so called free state sat back and done nothing whilst their people were being burnt out of their homes and shot dead and interned in their thousands. unforgivable really.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 09, 2015, 12:58:51 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 12:43:20 PM
It's impossible to resist all this low-hanging fruit. Here we are, being lectured on the geographical impossibility of understanding politics on our own island from a political movement that makes common cause with people in places as diverse as Iberia and the Levant ;D

You'd be better be careful. With sophistry like this Sinn Fein will be trying to recruit you.

I'm not a Sinn Fein member or supporter though Ive voted for them in the past. The fact that I can appreciate their duplicity shouldn't and won't stop me pointing out the dual standards of others.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on April 09, 2015, 01:08:17 PM
Quoteyou can never escape the fact that the majority of people in the so called free state sat back and done nothing whilst their people were being burnt out of their homes and shot dead and interned in their thousands. unforgivable really.

Sorry Charlie - what could I have done in 1972 as a 5 year old. Strongly worded letter to the English papers? March on the north with a toy gun?

Or are we talking 1922, 1982 or when exactly?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on April 09, 2015, 03:05:53 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 09, 2015, 12:43:20 PM
It's impossible to resist all this low-hanging fruit. Here we are, being lectured on the geographical impossibility of understanding politics on our own island from a political movement that makes common cause with people in places as diverse as Iberia and the Levant ;D

Fair enough. Your 3rd hand knowledge on the subject makes you an expert.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on April 09, 2015, 03:21:33 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2015, 12:17:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 08, 2015, 05:00:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 08, 2015, 09:24:52 AM
Christ's sake, the more I think about it . . . will the Shinner need to gloss over the IRA's atrocities now mean that the victims of Bloody Sunday and Aidan McAnespie and Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson and Majella O'Hare and God knows how many others will have to be written off as casualties of war? Screw you, Shinner scum, and the horse you rode in on.

I love how free staters give lessons on the north...it's amazing what they seem to learn by watching a couple of Prime Time documentaries.

And I love how lads like yourself give us lessons in how to run the country, or should I say the Free State. Sauce for the goose and all that.

Bailouts, poverty, unemployment, mass emigration. Fine job you're doing there...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on April 09, 2015, 03:23:56 PM
Yup, and if the British government weren't employing everyone up there, I'm sure ye'd be a paragon of self sufficiency.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2015, 06:21:01 PM
Mary Lou in bother over abusing Dail privilege I see.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on April 09, 2015, 06:28:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2015, 06:21:01 PM
Mary Lou in bother over abusing Sail privilege I see.

I didn't know she owned a yacht.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 09, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
Going back to the issue at hand before it was side-tracked I don't have a major problem with someone exposing the opinion that McConvilles death is something that happens in war, like Lynchboy or Hardstation. I'd disagree with them but at least their honest and consistent in their opinion.

My problem is with Adams dismissing the McConville affair as same but is then happy to turn around and play the victim card when it suits the Shinners. A few month's ago he gladly reminded all of us what a heartless bitch Thatcher was for all that she was involved in. The "shit that happens in war" excuse wasn't extended to her. Also the Shinners are happy enough to parade about at hunger striker commemorations, name playparks after volunteers and build a museum at long kesh. But mention something like jean mc conville, gerry mc cabe or other members of the disappeared and it's nothing but "stop living in the past/it was 30 years ago/we've moved on with peace".

In short I wouldn't have issue with Adams opinion, Belfast of the 70's was a difficult place to live and defend your existence, it's the pungent hypocrisy that exists since. Telling you they're die-hard republicans whilst administrating British Rule in the North (conveniently being paid to do it by the crown), telling you that they're socialist and working-class and anti-austerity whilst facilitating decimating cuts to the NI departments of health and agriculture on the whim of a Tory government. Baying for blood at the financial irregularities of any politician who strays outside the rules but standing brazenly behind a SF minister still in power, who paid her brother in law 11k to paint her fcking office.

No my problem is with someone who lived their life by a distinctly arbitrary moral code, turning round and telling you what's right and what's wrong with the world today.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 09, 2015, 11:25:10 PM
Good post trileacman. Unfortunately the voting public don't seem to mind the double standards.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on April 09, 2015, 11:50:04 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 09, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
Going back to the issue at hand before it was side-tracked I don't have a major problem with someone exposing the opinion that McConvilles death is something that happens in war, like Lynchboy or Hardstation. I'd disagree with them but at least their honest and consistent in their opinion.

My problem is with Adams dismissing the McConville affair as same but is then happy to turn around and play the victim card when it suits the Shinners. A few month's ago he gladly reminded all of us what a heartless bitch Thatcher was for all that she was involved in. The "shit that happens in war" excuse wasn't extended to her. Also the Shinners are happy enough to parade about at hunger striker commemorations, name playparks after volunteers and build a museum at long kesh. But mention something like jean mc conville, gerry mc cabe or other members of the disappeared and it's nothing but "stop living in the past/it was 30 years ago/we've moved on with peace".

In short I wouldn't have issue with Adams opinion, Belfast of the 70's was a difficult place to live and defend your existence, it's the pungent hypocrisy that exists since. Telling you they're die-hard republicans whilst administrating British Rule in the North (conveniently being paid to do it by the crown), telling you that they're socialist and working-class and anti-austerity whilst facilitating decimating cuts to the NI departments of health and agriculture on the whim of a Tory government. Baying for blood at the financial irregularities of any politician who strays outside the rules but standing brazenly behind a SF minister still in power, who paid her brother in law 11k to paint her fcking office.

No my problem is with someone who lived their life by a distinctly arbitrary moral code, turning round and telling you what's right and what's wrong with the world today.
Do you only have a problem with Sinn Fein  telling whats right and wrong with the world, but not most other political parties, religions, not forgetting our free state intelligentsia, who know with absolute 20/20 hindsight assisted certainty how a beleaguered minority people should act and react appropriately in an  apartheid, militarised, armed to teeth, unionist statelet :)

I take it you don't support the GFA as it exists today, in particular the power sharing between the leading unionist and nationalist parties. What do you propose? How should the leading nationalist party in the north engage with the leading unionist party?
They shouldn't engage?


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 10, 2015, 12:15:55 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 09, 2015, 11:50:04 PM
I take it you don't support the GFA as it exists today, in particular the power sharing between the leading unionist and nationalist parties. What do you propose? How should the leading nationalist party in the north engage with the leading unionist party?
They shouldn't engage?

Accept the past for what it was, warts and all. No more posturing, no more excuses, no more weasel words. Finally do what your telling the world what you've been doing and move on. Leave the past for what it was and let history decide what was wrong and what was right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 10, 2015, 12:19:38 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 09, 2015, 11:50:04 PM
Do you only have a problem with Sinn Fein  telling whats right and wrong with the world, but not most other political parties, religions, not forgetting our free state intelligentsia, who know with absolute 20/20 hindsight assisted certainty how a beleaguered minority people should act and react appropriately in an  apartheid, militarised, armed to teeth, unionist statelet :)

You've laid out our stall there in no uncertain terms anyway, further discussion won't favour your understanding of what I've said so best to just leave it at that.

If the above is all you draw from what I've said, then so be it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 10, 2015, 06:33:58 AM
Quote from: trileacman on April 09, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
Going back to the issue at hand before it was side-tracked I don't have a major problem with someone exposing the opinion that McConvilles death is something that happens in war, like Lynchboy or Hardstation. I'd disagree with them but at least their honest and consistent in their opinion.

My problem is with Adams dismissing the McConville affair as same but is then happy to turn around and play the victim card when it suits the Shinners. A few month's ago he gladly reminded all of us what a heartless bitch Thatcher was for all that she was involved in. The "shit that happens in war" excuse wasn't extended to her. Also the Shinners are happy enough to parade about at hunger striker commemorations, name playparks after volunteers and build a museum at long kesh. But mention something like jean mc conville, gerry mc cabe or other members of the disappeared and it's nothing but "stop living in the past/it was 30 years ago/we've moved on with peace".

In short I wouldn't have issue with Adams opinion, Belfast of the 70's was a difficult place to live and defend your existence, it's the pungent hypocrisy that exists since. Telling you they're die-hard republicans whilst administrating British Rule in the North (conveniently being paid to do it by the crown), telling you that they're socialist and working-class and anti-austerity whilst facilitating decimating cuts to the NI departments of health and agriculture on the whim of a Tory government. Baying for blood at the financial irregularities of any politician who strays outside the rules but standing brazenly behind a SF minister still in power, who paid her brother in law 11k to paint her fcking office.

No my problem is with someone who lived their life by a distinctly arbitrary moral code, turning round and telling you what's right and what's wrong with the world today.

Good post.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on April 10, 2015, 08:53:01 AM
Out of curiosity, of all you who have contributed to this discussion on the Adams interview, how many actually watched the whole thing and not just the selected comment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on April 10, 2015, 12:34:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 10, 2015, 12:15:55 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 09, 2015, 11:50:04 PM
I take it you don't support the GFA as it exists today, in particular the power sharing between the leading unionist and nationalist parties. What do you propose? How should the leading nationalist party in the north engage with the leading unionist party?
They shouldn't engage?

Accept the past for what it was, warts and all. No more posturing, no more excuses, no more weasel words. Finally do what your telling the world what you've been doing and move on. Leave the past for what it was and let history decide what was wrong and what was right.
That's not an answer to the question. You expressed misgiving about Sinn Fein's action in the assembly.  How should the  leading nationalist party engage with the leading loyalist party in the power sharing set up?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 10, 2015, 03:35:36 PM
What happened to Jean McConville is no better or no worse than what happened in the early 1900's and no more or no less worthy of condemnation. 40 years ago or 99 what is the difference? As with all historical atrocities it can not be viewed through the prism of today and must be seen in context. There have been atrocities on all sides, British, Loyalist, Republican, Pro and Anti treaty alike. Time perhaps to stop talking shit about all of this and accept that all sides have things not to be proud of lurking in the past. Ireland is a better place today in terms of the absence of violence, what-a-boutery is not helpful, and all parties North and South need to look at themselves first. On an aside, fellow Northerners referring to "The Free State" should by now know that our Southern fellow countrymen view it as a term of abuse, akin to calling us Nordies and it is partitionist to boot.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 10, 2015, 04:35:22 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 10, 2015, 12:34:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 10, 2015, 12:15:55 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 09, 2015, 11:50:04 PM
I take it you don't support the GFA as it exists today, in particular the power sharing between the leading unionist and nationalist parties. What do you propose? How should the leading nationalist party in the north engage with the leading unionist party?
They shouldn't engage?

Accept the past for what it was, warts and all. No more posturing, no more excuses, no more weasel words. Finally do what your telling the world what you've been doing and move on. Leave the past for what it was and let history decide what was wrong and what was right.
That's not an answer to the question. You expressed misgiving about Sinn Fein's action in the assembly.  How should the  leading nationalist party engage with the leading loyalist party in the power sharing set up?
Quit with the faux republicanism, it's embarrassing to harp on about "the struggle" for a united Ireland whilst on the other hand posing for a photo shoot with the queen before you receive the golden handshake. Quit with the "Stoop" slur and trying to belittle others whilst portraying yourself as the only true republicans around. The facade of selling Easter lillies at the chapel gates, draping the tricolour over the election office and posters, hijacking the Irish language for political gain may be enough to fool a lot of Northern Catholics but it doesn't wash with me.

By all means work with the Unionists to bring the NI people together and hold onto the fragile peace created. Acknowledge that, which your actions clearly demonstrate, the violence of the troubles could never have solved the problems in NI and engaging and negotiating with the British and Unionist faction is the best policy to adopt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2015, 05:46:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 10, 2015, 03:35:36 PM
What happened to Jean McConville is no better or no worse than what happened in the early 1900's and no more or no less worthy of condemnation.
There have been atrocities on all sides, British, Loyalist, Republican, Pro and Anti treaty alike. 
all sides have things not to be proud of lurking in the past.
Ireland is a better place today in terms of the absence of violence,
On an aside, fellow Northerners referring to "The Free State" should by now know that our Southern fellow countrymen view it as a term of abuse, akin to calling us Nordies and it is partitionist to boot.
Agree with all that.
Problem is Shinners want ( rightfully in my opinion ) enquiries into a lot of the wrong doings of the Brits and RUC/UDR/UDA/UVF colluders but want their own wrong doings glossed over. Attacking people for pointing this out is not a good way to win friends or influence people.
Then they want the 26 Cos electorate to vote for them in big numbers while calling them partitionist abusive names.
Time to grow up SF lads and lassies ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bazil Douglas on April 10, 2015, 07:49:44 PM
Cant say I agree with everything SF say or do, but I would give credit to Adams & Mc Guinness for their ability & leadership in removing the gun & bomb from N. Ireland
And for all you guys pontificating from your ivory towers remember the 5 steps to tyranny.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2015, 08:34:57 PM
Enlighten us.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on April 10, 2015, 10:02:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2015, 08:34:57 PM
Enlighten us.

1. Sign Cantona
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 11, 2015, 09:07:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 10, 2015, 10:02:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2015, 08:34:57 PM
Enlighten us.

1. Sign Cantona

2. Trampoline naked with an animal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 11, 2015, 11:48:01 PM
I ask a better one, what have Sinn Fein done in west Belfast the past 20 years in terms of regeneration. you can only go to the well so often with vote for us on a united ireland front, the school pass rates are no better than they were 15yrs ago, joy riders still reign havoc on and off. suicides seem to have increased. What massive companies have come to the area. I be in west Belfast every week and so many areas still look so run down. Yes the swimming pools and Libraries have been upgraded along with some schools but what has really changed, are the people of west Belfast  better off in terms of works, future for their children?. Sometimes out side the sectarian vote i struggle to understand a party getting it so handy to get voted back in with so little return for the voters!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2015, 12:04:01 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 11, 2015, 11:48:01 PM
I ask a better one, what have Sinn Fein done in west Belfast the past 20 years in terms of regeneration. you can only go to the well so often with vote for us on a united ireland front, the school pass rates are no better than they were 15yrs ago, joy riders still reign havoc on and off. suicides seem to have increased. What massive companies have come to the area. I be in west Belfast every week and so many areas still look so run down. Yes the swimming pools and Libraries have been upgraded along with some schools but what has really changed, are the people of west Belfast  better off in terms of works, future for their children?. Sometimes out side the sectarian vote i struggle to understand a party getting it so handy to get voted back in with so little return for the voters!
They could run a blow up doll in W. Belfast and still be elected. Paul Maskey is a perfect example.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on April 12, 2015, 12:26:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 11, 2015, 11:48:01 PM
I ask a better one, what have Sinn Fein done in west Belfast the past 20 years in terms of regeneration. you can only go to the well so often with vote for us on a united ireland front, the school pass rates are no better than they were 15yrs ago, joy riders still reign havoc on and off. suicides seem to have increased. What massive companies have come to the area. I be in west Belfast every week and so many areas still look so run down. Yes the swimming pools and Libraries have been upgraded along with some schools but what has really changed, are the people of west Belfast  better off in terms of works, future for their children?. Sometimes out side the sectarian vote i struggle to understand a party getting it so handy to get voted back in with so little return for the voters!

I eagerly await your alternative. Big critic of them myself at times but what's better? DUP?  Stoops?  provide an alternative and I'm all ears.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 12, 2015, 12:47:17 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on April 12, 2015, 12:26:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 11, 2015, 11:48:01 PM
I ask a better one, what have Sinn Fein done in west Belfast the past 20 years in terms of regeneration. you can only go to the well so often with vote for us on a united ireland front, the school pass rates are no better than they were 15yrs ago, joy riders still reign havoc on and off. suicides seem to have increased. What massive companies have come to the area. I be in west Belfast every week and so many areas still look so run down. Yes the swimming pools and Libraries have been upgraded along with some schools but what has really changed, are the people of west Belfast  better off in terms of works, future for their children?. Sometimes out side the sectarian vote i struggle to understand a party getting it so handy to get voted back in with so little return for the voters!

I eagerly await your alternative. Big critic of them myself at times but what's better? DUP?  Stoops?  provide an alternative and I'm all ears.
Maybe the IRA could run some candidates
It would be an alternative to the now faux left sf.

Might be hard getting candidates as most of those ex POW's who could stand are not enamoured
With politics . Any that we're have crossed over the divide into sf. Some with intent of countering unionist power, others to perform service to the community and others still for the limelight.


Though I can't see an IRA party getting any traction south of the border!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 13, 2015, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2015, 12:04:01 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 11, 2015, 11:48:01 PM
I ask a better one, what have Sinn Fein done in west Belfast the past 20 years in terms of regeneration. you can only go to the well so often with vote for us on a united ireland front, the school pass rates are no better than they were 15yrs ago, joy riders still reign havoc on and off. suicides seem to have increased. What massive companies have come to the area. I be in west Belfast every week and so many areas still look so run down. Yes the swimming pools and Libraries have been upgraded along with some schools but what has really changed, are the people of west Belfast  better off in terms of works, future for their children?. Sometimes out side the sectarian vote i struggle to understand a party getting it so handy to get voted back in with so little return for the voters!
They could run a blow up doll in W. Belfast and still be elected. Paul Maskey is a perfect example.
That's unfair, blow up dolls have better diction!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 13, 2015, 10:20:48 AM
Staunchly republican district continually votes republican candidates shocker.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: getevennotcross on April 14, 2015, 08:22:18 PM
Quote from: general_lee on April 13, 2015, 10:20:48 AM
Staunchly republican district continually votes republican candidates shocker.
The absolute hypocrisy of calling themselves Republicans.  Accepting the Royal pardon and the Queens shilling(s), when in earlier days they encouraged others not to recognise the court.  Propping up a British administration in Stormont with their DUP cohorts.  A complete and utter shower of hypocritical scumbags.  Ourselves Alone eh.  They should be ashamed of themselves, just like the church, they have conned our people and especially the people of West Belfast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 14, 2015, 10:03:56 PM
And what exactly do you think they should be doing??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 14, 2015, 10:09:53 PM
Mary Lou didn't come across too well on Matt Cooper this evening in relation to her comments on the Ansbacher accounts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
I live in the West Belfast constituency and traditionally I vote SF but by fcuk they have no chance of getting my vote this time around. Gerry Carroll from PBP will be getting it. 

SF carrying out austerity and then calling them 'the Tory Cuts'. Dont see much Shinners falling victim to austerity between Stormont or community jobs

Plus, Gerry Adams was a sh.ite MP but I cringe every time I hear Paul Maskey speaking on the radio and on TV. Apparently he always tries 'really really really hard to get things done'. They are FF minus 50 years.

But anyway PBP are the only people i have heard with a complete anti-austerity voice and have heard onky positive messages.  I have already heard the shinners starting to bash him and his character. Typical bullying fascists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on April 15, 2015, 08:58:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 14, 2015, 10:09:53 PM
Mary Lou didn't come across too well on Matt Cooper this evening in relation to her comments on the Ansbacher accounts.

What did she say?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on April 15, 2015, 09:02:38 AM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
I live in the West Belfast constituency and traditionally I vote SF but by fcuk they have no chance of getting my vote this time around. Gerry Carroll from PBP will be getting it. 

SF carrying out austerity and then calling them 'the Tory Cuts'. Dont see much Shinners falling victim to austerity between Stormont or community jobs

Plus, Gerry Adams was a sh.ite MP but I cringe every time I hear Paul Maskey speaking on the radio and on TV. Apparently he always tries 'really really really hard to get things done'. They are FF minus 50 years.

But anyway PBP are the only people i have heard with a complete anti-austerity voice and have heard onky positive messages.  I have already heard the shinners starting to bash him and his character. Typical bullying fascists.

Surprised to hear it has taken so long. Paul Maskey is useless. I think Sinn Fein know this as he is rarely on radio or TV, except for when he tried to take over the St Mary's closure threat, and obviously when approaching election time.

The only input I saw him having with the Casement debacle was telling people to "sit down and talk".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
What would have been really funny only it was true was when Peter Robinson 'visited' West Belfast and he declared smugly it a 'really really positive thing for West Belfast and hopefully it'll bring loads and loads of jobs to the area' and then the very next day, RIAS axed hundreds of jobs in the area and then he was interviewed saying 'we will sit down with them and try really really hard to get something sorted'. Invest NI in the same news piece absolved RIAS of any obligation stating that they fully met their contractual commitments and when this was put to him he said ' well we will sit down and see what we can do'. If him going in as MP wasn't taking the people of West Belfast's votes for granted then i dont know what is. SF in West Belfast are a disaster. It has remained the most deprived electoral ward with the most health problems in the North during Gerry Adams' tenure and during Paul 'I'm trying really really hard' Maskey's tenure too. Disaster but sure lift him up shoulder high and stick a tricolour around him when he is re-elected and it'll maintain the facade.

I'd love to see Spotlight carry out an investigation into the community sector in West Belfast and expose the amount of  community funding being wasted by employing SF in fake community roles.

Electorally they will do well because they are an electoral machine and they will be exposed in the south for their phoniness. Easy to stick Pearse O'Doherty and Eoin O'Broin in front of a camera and shout socialism but in the North, they hide people like that away and attack the characters of other people like them who are in different parties like Gerry Carrol and Eamonn McCann.

Hypocritical unashamed predatorial busllying fascists. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 15, 2015, 10:41:39 AM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
What would have been really funny only it was true was when Peter Robinson 'visited' West Belfast and he declared smugly it a 'really really positive thing for West Belfast and hopefully it'll bring loads and loads of jobs to the area' and then the very next day, RIAS axed hundreds of jobs in the area and then he was interviewed saying 'we will sit down with them and try really really hard to get something sorted'. Invest NI in the same news piece absolved RIAS of any obligation stating that they fully met their contractual commitments and when this was put to him he said ' well we will sit down and see what we can do'. If him going in as MP wasn't taking the people of West Belfast's votes for granted then i dont know what is. SF in West Belfast are a disaster. It has remained the most deprived electoral ward with the most health problems in the North during Gerry Adams' tenure and during Paul 'I'm trying really really hard' Maskey's tenure too. Disaster but sure lift him up shoulder high and stick a tricolour around him when he is re-elected and it'll maintain the facade.

I'd love to see Spotlight carry out an investigation into the community sector in West Belfast and expose the amount of  community funding being wasted by employing SF in fake community roles.

Electorally they will do well because they are an electoral machine and they will be exposed in the south for their phoniness. Easy to stick Pearse O'Doherty and Eoin O'Broin in front of a camera and shout socialism but in the North, they hide people like that away and attack the characters of other people like them who are in different parties like Gerry Carrol and Eamonn McCann.

Hypocritical unashamed predatorial busllying fascists.

Serious question.

If a political party anywhere in the world styles itself solely as the voice of the poor and the deprived, what incentive has it to improve their lot?

Surely, failure means more votes from the poor and deprived which means electoral success. Equally, social improvements means lost votes which means electoral failure.

When such a party goes into Government it usually means a short to mid term decline.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 15, 2015, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
I live in the West Belfast constituency and traditionally I vote SF but by fcuk they have no chance of getting my vote this time around. Gerry Carroll from PBP will be getting it. 


But anyway PBP are the only people i have heard with a complete anti-austerity voice and have heard onky positive messages.  I have already heard the shinners starting to bash him and his character. Typical bullying fascists.

If this lad gets elected......
Will he march into Westminster and outvote the 640 others and end austerity?
Just like the new Greek Govt showed the EU, IMF etc eh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 11:30:25 AM
So should he succumb to the big parties and just not bother?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 15, 2015, 11:53:35 AM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
I live in the West Belfast constituency and traditionally I vote SF but by fcuk they have no chance of getting my vote this time around. Gerry Carroll from PBP will be getting it. 

SF carrying out austerity and then calling them 'the Tory Cuts'. Dont see much Shinners falling victim to austerity between Stormont or community jobs

Plus, Gerry Adams was a sh.ite MP but I cringe every time I hear Paul Maskey speaking on the radio and on TV. Apparently he always tries 'really really really hard to get things done'. They are FF minus 50 years.

But anyway PBP are the only people i have heard with a complete anti-austerity voice and have heard onky positive messages.  I have already heard the shinners starting to bash him and his character. Typical bullying fascists.
Two points, no party in the North can actually stop austerity, it is the policy of the incumbent British Government, they just take the money out of the block grant. You might as well vote for Dustin the Turkey as PBP he is likely to have greater influence.
SF need to get away from the jobs for the boys attitude that sees people like the Maskey's as elected reps. I have no doubt they are great community activists and will sort issues for constituents but their grasp of english is no existent. Paul Maskey in particular is so bad he makes Alec sound almost eloquent. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 15, 2015, 11:55:22 AM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
What would have been really funny only it was true was when Peter Robinson 'visited' West Belfast and he declared smugly it a 'really really positive thing for West Belfast and hopefully it'll bring loads and loads of jobs to the area' and then the very next day, RIAS axed hundreds of jobs in the area and then he was interviewed saying 'we will sit down with them and try really really hard to get something sorted'. Invest NI in the same news piece absolved RIAS of any obligation stating that they fully met their contractual commitments and when this was put to him he said ' well we will sit down and see what we can do'. If him going in as MP wasn't taking the people of West Belfast's votes for granted then i dont know what is. SF in West Belfast are a disaster. It has remained the most deprived electoral ward with the most health problems in the North during Gerry Adams' tenure and during Paul 'I'm trying really really hard' Maskey's tenure too. Disaster but sure lift him up shoulder high and stick a tricolour around him when he is re-elected and it'll maintain the facade.

I'd love to see Spotlight carry out an investigation into the community sector in West Belfast and expose the amount of  community funding being wasted by employing SF in fake community roles.

Electorally they will do well because they are an electoral machine and they will be exposed in the south for their phoniness. Easy to stick Pearse O'Doherty and Eoin O'Broin in front of a camera and shout socialism but in the North, they hide people like that away and attack the characters of other people like them who are in different parties like Gerry Carrol and Eamonn McCann.

Hypocritical unashamed predatorial busllying fascists.

Beginning to sound like you are a trolling stoop!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on April 15, 2015, 04:27:56 PM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
What would have been really funny only it was true was when Peter Robinson 'visited' West Belfast and he declared smugly it a 'really really positive thing for West Belfast and hopefully it'll bring loads and loads of jobs to the area' and then the very next day, RIAS axed hundreds of jobs in the area and then he was interviewed saying 'we will sit down with them and try really really hard to get something sorted'. Invest NI in the same news piece absolved RIAS of any obligation stating that they fully met their contractual commitments and when this was put to him he said ' well we will sit down and see what we can do'. If him going in as MP wasn't taking the people of West Belfast's votes for granted then i dont know what is. SF in West Belfast are a disaster. It has remained the most deprived electoral ward with the most health problems in the North during Gerry Adams' tenure and during Paul 'I'm trying really really hard' Maskey's tenure too. Disaster but sure lift him up shoulder high and stick a tricolour around him when he is re-elected and it'll maintain the facade.

I'd love to see Spotlight carry out an investigation into the community sector in West Belfast and expose the amount of  community funding being wasted by employing SF in fake community roles.

Electorally they will do well because they are an electoral machine and they will be exposed in the south for their phoniness. Easy to stick Pearse O'Doherty and Eoin O'Broin in front of a camera and shout socialism but in the North, they hide people like that away and attack the characters of other people like them who are in different parties like Gerry Carrol and Eamonn McCann.

Hypocritical unashamed predatorial busllying fascists.

I have to say on my last trip down the Falls that did catch my eye in wonderment as in WTF were they all about.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 05:52:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 15, 2015, 11:55:22 AM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
What would have been really funny only it was true was when Peter Robinson 'visited' West Belfast and he declared smugly it a 'really really positive thing for West Belfast and hopefully it'll bring loads and loads of jobs to the area' and then the very next day, RIAS axed hundreds of jobs in the area and then he was interviewed saying 'we will sit down with them and try really really hard to get something sorted'. Invest NI in the same news piece absolved RIAS of any obligation stating that they fully met their contractual commitments and when this was put to him he said ' well we will sit down and see what we can do'. If him going in as MP wasn't taking the people of West Belfast's votes for granted then i dont know what is. SF in West Belfast are a disaster. It has remained the most deprived electoral ward with the most health problems in the North during Gerry Adams' tenure and during Paul 'I'm trying really really hard' Maskey's tenure too. Disaster but sure lift him up shoulder high and stick a tricolour around him when he is re-elected and it'll maintain the facade.

I'd love to see Spotlight carry out an investigation into the community sector in West Belfast and expose the amount of  community funding being wasted by employing SF in fake community roles.

Electorally they will do well because they are an electoral machine and they will be exposed in the south for their phoniness. Easy to stick Pearse O'Doherty and Eoin O'Broin in front of a camera and shout socialism but in the North, they hide people like that away and attack the characters of other people like them who are in different parties like Gerry Carrol and Eamonn McCann.

Hypocritical unashamed predatorial busllying fascists.

Beginning to sound like you are a trolling stoop!

Definitely not. I'm a republican.

Why throw out such a suggestion? Wouldn't you prefer to debate what I actually wrote or in true shinner style, would you rather play the man?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 15, 2015, 06:43:08 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 15, 2015, 08:58:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 14, 2015, 10:09:53 PM
Mary Lou didn't come across too well on Matt Cooper this evening in relation to her comments on the Ansbacher accounts.

What did she say?
Wouldn't name names on air as she did under Dail privilege. Didn't have any evidence to pin anything on the individuals she named in the Dail. Refused to apologise for naming people with no grounds for doing so. Maintained she was right in all she did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on April 15, 2015, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 15, 2015, 04:27:56 PM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
What would have been really funny only it was true was when Peter Robinson 'visited' West Belfast and he declared smugly it a 'really really positive thing for West Belfast and hopefully it'll bring loads and loads of jobs to the area' and then the very next day, RIAS axed hundreds of jobs in the area and then he was interviewed saying 'we will sit down with them and try really really hard to get something sorted'. Invest NI in the same news piece absolved RIAS of any obligation stating that they fully met their contractual commitments and when this was put to him he said ' well we will sit down and see what we can do'. If him going in as MP wasn't taking the people of West Belfast's votes for granted then i dont know what is. SF in West Belfast are a disaster. It has remained the most deprived electoral ward with the most health problems in the North during Gerry Adams' tenure and during Paul 'I'm trying really really hard' Maskey's tenure too. Disaster but sure lift him up shoulder high and stick a tricolour around him when he is re-elected and it'll maintain the facade.

I'd love to see Spotlight carry out an investigation into the community sector in West Belfast and expose the amount of  community funding being wasted by employing SF in fake community roles.

Electorally they will do well because they are an electoral machine and they will be exposed in the south for their phoniness. Easy to stick Pearse O'Doherty and Eoin O'Broin in front of a camera and shout socialism but in the North, they hide people like that away and attack the characters of other people like them who are in different parties like Gerry Carrol and Eamonn McCann.

Hypocritical unashamed predatorial busllying fascists.

I have to say on my last trip down the Falls that did catch my eye in wonderment as in WTF were they all about.

It's basically jobs as a reward for SF family members, party "activists" etc. Keeps them loyal I suppose.

99% of them doing fck all of any worth.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2015, 09:53:04 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 15, 2015, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 15, 2015, 04:27:56 PM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
What would have been really funny only it was true was when Peter Robinson 'visited' West Belfast and he declared smugly it a 'really really positive thing for West Belfast and hopefully it'll bring loads and loads of jobs to the area' and then the very next day, RIAS axed hundreds of jobs in the area and then he was interviewed saying 'we will sit down with them and try really really hard to get something sorted'. Invest NI in the same news piece absolved RIAS of any obligation stating that they fully met their contractual commitments and when this was put to him he said ' well we will sit down and see what we can do'. If him going in as MP wasn't taking the people of West Belfast's votes for granted then i dont know what is. SF in West Belfast are a disaster. It has remained the most deprived electoral ward with the most health problems in the North during Gerry Adams' tenure and during Paul 'I'm trying really really hard' Maskey's tenure too. Disaster but sure lift him up shoulder high and stick a tricolour around him when he is re-elected and it'll maintain the facade.

I'd love to see Spotlight carry out an investigation into the community sector in West Belfast and expose the amount of  community funding being wasted by employing SF in fake community roles.

Electorally they will do well because they are an electoral machine and they will be exposed in the south for their phoniness. Easy to stick Pearse O'Doherty and Eoin O'Broin in front of a camera and shout socialism but in the North, they hide people like that away and attack the characters of other people like them who are in different parties like Gerry Carrol and Eamonn McCann.

Hypocritical unashamed predatorial busllying fascists.

I have to say on my last trip down the Falls that did catch my eye in wonderment as in WTF were they all about.

It's basically jobs as a reward for SF family members, party "activists" etc. Keeps them loyal I suppose.

99% of them doing fck all of any worth.
That's par for the course up there - mostly on north east coast!

Sure the environment is set by that mindset.

Look at the tv ads

The titanic centre - best tourist attraction in Ireland

Best cuisine is the Ulster fry ( irish plus wretched soda bread)

Best and most vibrant city is belfast ( siht hole)

It's rampant around there. Can't see beyond their own area, facilities and also people

Nepotism is an irish habit, but it's taken to another level by sf and pretty much everyone across the board in the self publicizing north east utopia !!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 16, 2015, 09:25:11 AM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
I live in the West Belfast constituency and traditionally I vote SF but by fcuk they have no chance of getting my vote this time around. Gerry Carroll from PBP will be getting it. 

SF carrying out austerity and then calling them 'the Tory Cuts'. Dont see much Shinners falling victim to austerity between Stormont or community jobs

Plus, Gerry Adams was a sh.ite MP but I cringe every time I hear Paul Maskey speaking on the radio and on TV. Apparently he always tries 'really really really hard to get things done'. They are FF minus 50 years.

But anyway PBP are the only people i have heard with a complete anti-austerity voice and have heard onky positive messages.  I have already heard the shinners starting to bash him and his character. Typical bullying fascists.
If I lived in West Belfast I would vote Gerry Carroll. However where I live I can choose from an array of Unionists, the SDLP or SF. SF get it because they are the best of a bad bunch. If the Greens or someone like PBP were standing they'd get my vote. I don't hide the fact I have voted SF in the past or that I will probably continue to do so in the future. I know it makes me come across as one of the sheeple but I will be the first to acknowledge SF's various flaws and their inability to address them properly. However on ideology alone they will continue to get my vote. No other party comes close.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ojonathanrossa on April 16, 2015, 09:35:50 AM
BBC Constituency Profile for West Belfast. Facts are Facts and SF are s.hit!

Constituency profile

This constituency has the highest proportion of Catholics (80%) of any Northern Ireland seat. The Royal Victoria Hospital is one of the area's biggest employers. The economy is boosted through tourism, based around the Troubles.
In 2013, there was an estimated population of 94,000. It is the most deprived constituency in Northern Ireland. Welfare reform is a big issue and one in five residents are in receipt of at least one disability-related benefit. Residents here have a lower life expectancy than any other part of Northern Ireland.
Since 1966, this seat has been held by nationalist MPs. Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams took the seat from the SDLP's Gerry Fitt in 1983. He lost it in 1992 to the SDLP's Joe Hendron, only to regain it five years later. After Mr Adams resigned to become a member of the Republic of Ireland's parliament, Paul Maskey of Sinn Féin took the seat in 2011.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 16, 2015, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 05:52:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 15, 2015, 11:55:22 AM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
What would have been really funny only it was true was when Peter Robinson 'visited' West Belfast and he declared smugly it a 'really really positive thing for West Belfast and hopefully it'll bring loads and loads of jobs to the area' and then the very next day, RIAS axed hundreds of jobs in the area and then he was interviewed saying 'we will sit down with them and try really really hard to get something sorted'. Invest NI in the same news piece absolved RIAS of any obligation stating that they fully met their contractual commitments and when this was put to him he said ' well we will sit down and see what we can do'. If him going in as MP wasn't taking the people of West Belfast's votes for granted then i dont know what is. SF in West Belfast are a disaster. It has remained the most deprived electoral ward with the most health problems in the North during Gerry Adams' tenure and during Paul 'I'm trying really really hard' Maskey's tenure too. Disaster but sure lift him up shoulder high and stick a tricolour around him when he is re-elected and it'll maintain the facade.

I'd love to see Spotlight carry out an investigation into the community sector in West Belfast and expose the amount of  community funding being wasted by employing SF in fake community roles.

Electorally they will do well because they are an electoral machine and they will be exposed in the south for their phoniness. Easy to stick Pearse O'Doherty and Eoin O'Broin in front of a camera and shout socialism but in the North, they hide people like that away and attack the characters of other people like them who are in different parties like Gerry Carrol and Eamonn McCann.

Hypocritical unashamed predatorial busllying fascists.

Beginning to sound like you are a trolling stoop!

Definitely not. I'm a republican.

Why throw out such a suggestion? Wouldn't you prefer to debate what I actually wrote or in true shinner style, would you rather play the man?
If you read my posts you will see that I am equally critical of both the Stoops and the Shinners, I don't like a lot of what the current SF leadership do but your criticism seems to me to be some what over the top, just my opinion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 16, 2015, 12:46:35 PM
The infrastructural problems of nationalist areas like West Belfast, Newry, Strabane etc are a hangover from the old one party state. Thanks in the main to John Hume Derry was thrown a few sops. Nationalist's have found it hard to shift the old mores within an NI civil service that keeps pushing funding in the same direction. It will take time. unfortunately many nationalist areas have a benefits culture where scamming the state is fair game, this needs to be tackled as well. With benefits up to £26K available it will take time and welfare reform. Generations in nationalist areas have lost the tradition of work as a means to earn a crust. Nationalist political parties seem afraid to tackle this old elephant as it sits in the corner of the room.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 16, 2015, 02:03:13 PM
An believe it or not, there are people who think by fraudulently claiming benefits that they are string a blow to the British establishment!?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on April 16, 2015, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 16, 2015, 02:03:13 PM
An believe it or not, there are people who think by fraudulently claiming benefits that they are string a blow to the British establishment!?

Well it certainly isn't discouraged by our political classes who are leading the way on how to suck the tax payer dry by fair means or foul.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 16, 2015, 02:28:15 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 16, 2015, 02:03:13 PM
An believe it or not, there are people who think by fraudulently claiming benefits that they are string a blow to the British establishment!?

I'd find it unbelievable that anyone would find what you say to be unbelievable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 16, 2015, 02:31:49 PM
Speaking of striking a blow to the British establishment, would any of ye have memories of being told how to deal with agents of said establishment, such as peelers? Flick the bird at them at every opportunity? Don't ever give them a reason to claim that they thought you were going for a gun?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 16, 2015, 03:51:34 PM
Burn everything British...... except their coal.... was the slogan of the day afair
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on April 16, 2015, 04:58:47 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 16, 2015, 02:31:49 PM
Speaking of striking a blow to the British establishment, would any of ye have memories of being told how to deal with agents of said establishment, such as peelers? Flick the bird at them at every opportunity? Don't ever give them a reason to claim that they thought you were going for a gun?

As an authority on the history of the 'troubles' I thought you would be able to regale us with your experiences?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 16, 2015, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 16, 2015, 12:46:35 PM
The infrastructural problems of nationalist areas like West Belfast, Newry, Strabane etc are a hangover from the old one party state. Thanks in the main to John Hume Derry was thrown a few sops. Nationalist's have found it hard to shift the old mores within an NI civil service that keeps pushing funding in the same direction. It will take time. unfortunately many nationalist areas have a benefits culture where scamming the state is fair game, this needs to be tackled as well. With benefits up to £26K available it will take time and welfare reform. Generations in nationalist areas have lost the tradition of work as a means to earn a crust. Nationalist political parties seem afraid to tackle this old elephant as it sits in the corner of the room.
Have you not been paying attention? Welfare reform would have capped benefits at £26k, but SF and the SDLP opposed this reform. So it's not "up to £26k", for some it's a good bit more.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on April 16, 2015, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 16, 2015, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 16, 2015, 12:46:35 PM
The infrastructural problems of nationalist areas like West Belfast, Newry, Strabane etc are a hangover from the old one party state. Thanks in the main to John Hume Derry was thrown a few sops. Nationalist's have found it hard to shift the old mores within an NI civil service that keeps pushing funding in the same direction. It will take time. unfortunately many nationalist areas have a benefits culture where scamming the state is fair game, this needs to be tackled as well. With benefits up to £26K available it will take time and welfare reform. Generations in nationalist areas have lost the tradition of work as a means to earn a crust. Nationalist political parties seem afraid to tackle this old elephant as it sits in the corner of the room.
Have you not been paying attention? Welfare reform would have capped benefits at £26k, but SF and the SDLP opposed this reform. So it's not "up to £26k", for some it's a good bit more.

& the cap at £26k does not include DLA
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on April 16, 2015, 08:57:14 PM
Chatting to a few shinners in newry
They are somewhat surprised at the positive response that Justin mc nutty has been getting
They can't see him winning but they feel that it's the first time in a while that the public have started asking real questions.
Tbf it can only be a good thing for all concerned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: DuffleKing on April 16, 2015, 09:03:01 PM

The new shinner candidate isn't getting a great airing outside newry / s armagh - not known at all and not making a great impression
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on April 16, 2015, 09:25:43 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 16, 2015, 09:03:01 PM

The new shinner candidate isn't getting a great airing outside newry / s armagh - not known at all and not making a great impression
Mickey has a good reputation in newry for working with the people, I will say though that sdlp saying they will help labour getting into power is a plus .

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on April 16, 2015, 09:46:36 PM
Quote from: naka on April 16, 2015, 09:25:43 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 16, 2015, 09:03:01 PM

The new shinner candidate isn't getting a great airing outside newry / s armagh - not known at all and not making a great impression
Mickey has a good reputation in newry for working with the people, I will say though that sdlp saying they will help labour getting into power is a plus .

I heard that he got hunted from the picket line at a dole office in Newry during the public service strike on 13 March.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on April 16, 2015, 09:53:10 PM
Think the shinners in government at stormont causes them issues on their anti cuts stance
They can't be poacher and game keeper
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 16, 2015, 10:15:16 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 16, 2015, 09:46:36 PM
Quote from: naka on April 16, 2015, 09:25:43 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 16, 2015, 09:03:01 PM

The new shinner candidate isn't getting a great airing outside newry / s armagh - not known at all and not making a great impression
Mickey has a good reputation in newry for working with the people, I will say though that sdlp saying they will help labour getting into power is a plus .

I heard that he got hunted from the picket line at a dole office in Newry during the public service strike on 13 March.
They have some brass neck to go anywhere near a picket line!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on April 16, 2015, 10:18:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 16, 2015, 10:15:16 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 16, 2015, 09:46:36 PM
Quote from: naka on April 16, 2015, 09:25:43 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 16, 2015, 09:03:01 PM

The new shinner candidate isn't getting a great airing outside newry / s armagh - not known at all and not making a great impression
Mickey has a good reputation in newry for working with the people, I will say though that sdlp saying they will help labour getting into power is a plus .

I heard that he got hunted from the picket line at a dole office in Newry during the public service strike on 13 March.
They have some brass neck to go anywhere near a picket line!

I actually didn't think they would.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 16, 2015, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: naka on April 16, 2015, 08:57:14 PM
Chatting to a few shinners in newry
They are somewhat surprised at the positive response that Justin mc nutty has been getting
They can't see him winning but they feel that it's the first time in a while that the public have started asking real questions.
Tbf it can only be a good thing for all concerned.
McNulty has a profile befores he starts which gives him a head-start. I think he'll do well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: FranciePat on April 16, 2015, 11:34:09 PM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
I live in the West Belfast constituency and traditionally I vote SF but by fcuk they have no chance of getting my vote this time around.

I call bullsh1t on that one buddy. Do you expect anybody to believe you traditionally voted SF until "this time around"? Going from being a traditional sinn fein voter to saying things like the below, is quite a transformation in the space of one election:


Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
Dont see much Shinners falling victim to austerity between Stormont or community jobs

Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
Plus, Gerry Adams was a sh.ite MP but I cringe every time I hear Paul Maskey speaking on the radio and on TV.

Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
They are FF minus 50 years.

Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
I have already heard the shinners starting to bash him and his character. Typical bullying fascists.

Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 15, 2015, 05:52:50 PM
in true shinner style, would you rather play the man?

Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 16, 2015, 09:35:50 AM
Facts are Facts and SF are s.hit!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ojonathanrossa on April 16, 2015, 11:51:06 PM
Wrongo. Traditionally is something that happened in the past due to tradition.  My father when he was alive voted SF as did I when I was younger until two elections ago.

There you go, you learn something new every day, Francie Pat.

Another attempt at playing the man and not the ball. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on April 17, 2015, 08:33:23 AM
In the UK General Election the winning post is traditionally 326 seats (1 more than half the 650) however with 5 SF abstentionism the winning post is effectively 323 seats.

If the Tories were to achieve 323/324 seats would SF take their seats to prevent them claiming an overall majority?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on April 17, 2015, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 17, 2015, 08:33:23 AM
In the UK General Election the winning post is traditionally 326 seats (1 more than half the 650) however with 5 SF abstentionism the winning post is effectively 323 seats.

If the Tories were to achieve 323/324 seats would SF take their seats to prevent them claiming an overall majority?

The Tories would have no problem governing with 323/324 seats because they could rely on the support of the DUP. Now if they had 314/315 seats and the DUP could only bring them up the point where the Shinners could block the Queen's Speech . . . I think we all know the answer to what the Shinners would do which is what makes it all the more amusing to contemplate the scenario.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on April 17, 2015, 09:35:04 AM
Despite what they say SF would have no issue with the Conservatives getting back in, they will be able to blame every step of austerity they have to implement on the bogeyman Tories.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ojonathanrossa on April 17, 2015, 09:35:12 AM
SF will take their seats... eventually.  Not this election but very possibly the one after this one.  They are already throwing out the signs.

There is no way that the Labour party would ever accept SF's support though. It would be political suicide.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 17, 2015, 02:50:14 PM
Quote from: ojonathanrossa on April 16, 2015, 11:51:06 PM
Wrongo. Traditionally is something that happened in the past due to tradition.  My father when he was alive voted SF as did I when I was younger until two elections ago.

There you go, you learn something new every day, Francie Pat.

Another attempt at playing the man and not the ball.
To be fair you set yourself up to be played.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 17, 2015, 02:55:08 PM
It is time all political parties in the North grew up. Hard decisions need to be taken, even labour are saying they will not reverse austerity, just t**ker around the edges a bit. It was always going to happen at some stage the English electorate and Parliament were going to call time on the NI gravy train once peace of a kind was achieved. This idea of blaming the Brits has to end the era of handouts is over and cuts will only get worse. If Scotland goes its own way watch out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on April 17, 2015, 03:24:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 17, 2015, 02:55:08 PM
It is time all political parties in the North grew up. Hard decisions need to be taken, even labour are saying they will not reverse austerity, just t**ker around the edges a bit. It was always going to happen at some stage the English electorate and Parliament were going to call time on the NI gravy train once peace of a kind was achieved. This idea of blaming the Brits has to end the era of handouts is over and cuts will only get worse. If Scotland goes its own way watch out.

"Austerity" has been a lot milder here than in the rest of the UK up to now, Government departments in Whitehall suffered far deeper cuts than we have here so I don't think it's anything to do with the English "calling time" on here, we are just being pulled into line with every other region of the UK.

So the argument you hear from time to time that an English government will pull the pin here doesent stack up & there is no evidence of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on April 29, 2015, 11:22:28 AM
Did anyone hear Chris Hazzard (SF) on the Nolan Show this morning??  I think even hardline DUPs would have some sympathy for him.  Car crash would not do it justice.  It made Natalie Bennett's "brain fade" moment look like a master class in communication technique.  I believe Chris is studying for a PhD.  Clearly not in economics...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 29, 2015, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on April 29, 2015, 11:22:28 AM
Did anyone hear Chris Hazzard (SF) on the Nolan Show this morning??  I think even hardline DUPs would have some sympathy for him.  Car crash would not do it justice.  It made Natalie Bennett's "brain fade" moment look like a master class in communication technique.  I believe Chris is studying for a PhD.  Clearly not in economics...

Why what did he say ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: DuffleKing on April 29, 2015, 12:45:49 PM

https://audioboom.com/boos/3131587-bbcnolan-general-election-interviews-sinn-fein-s-chris-hazzard-ge2015
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on April 29, 2015, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 29, 2015, 12:45:49 PM

https://audioboom.com/boos/3131587-bbcnolan-general-election-interviews-sinn-fein-s-chris-hazzard-ge2015

Listened to about 14 minutes. Didn't think he was that bad (the car crash might have come later). Nolan was like Prince Naseem darting around Tyson, being very annoying and condescending with constant interruptions anytime there was an answer coming and then tons of questions when he thought he had Hazard trapped.

I was hoping Tyson would nail Naseem with a big one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on April 29, 2015, 01:57:01 PM
He was very poor all right. If he was going to go on air championing the living wage, the very least
he could have done was to know exactly how much it was.

But not to worry, if elected, they will help people write off their credit card bills
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: DuffleKing on April 29, 2015, 02:16:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2015, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 29, 2015, 12:45:49 PM

https://audioboom.com/boos/3131587-bbcnolan-general-election-interviews-sinn-fein-s-chris-hazzard-ge2015

Listened to about 14 minutes. Didn't think he was that bad (the car crash might have come later). Nolan was like Prince Naseem darting around Tyson, being very annoying and condescending with constant interruptions anytime there was an answer coming and then tons of questions when he thought he had Hazard trapped.

I was hoping Tyson would nail Naseem with a big one.

Last 5 minutes...

:-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sandy Hill on April 29, 2015, 02:36:21 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 29, 2015, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on April 29, 2015, 11:22:28 AM
Did anyone hear Chris Hazzard (SF) on the Nolan Show this morning??  I think even hardline DUPs would have some sympathy for him.  Car crash would not do it justice.  It made Natalie Bennett's "brain fade" moment look like a master class in communication technique.  I believe Chris is studying for a PhD.  Clearly not in economics...

Why what did he say ?

Lots of words but told us nothing!
Typical exchange:
NOLAN: How do you know?
HAZZARD: Because we know.
Really the only specific he was able to give about his party's position on the economy was that those earning over £150k would pay 50% tax! I really enjoyed the interview and, like him or not, Nolan was good.
The rest of the programme was hilarious; some woman complaining because some lad on a building site she was walking past wolf whistled at her and then another Shinner complaining about a 20 sec prayer being said at the beginning of a council meeting.
The country's cowped!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on April 29, 2015, 03:04:29 PM
To be fair to Hazzard he was only slightly worse than Mike Nesbitt yesterday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: topcuppla on April 29, 2015, 03:16:20 PM
Quote from: naka on April 16, 2015, 08:57:14 PM
Chatting to a few shinners in newry
They are somewhat surprised at the positive response that Justin mc nutty has been getting
They can't see him winning but they feel that it's the first time in a while that the public have started asking real questions.
Tbf it can only be a good thing for all concerned.

I am not - least the man will take his seat!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 29, 2015, 08:59:59 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 29, 2015, 12:45:49 PM

https://audioboom.com/boos/3131587-bbcnolan-general-election-interviews-sinn-fein-s-chris-hazzard-ge2015
That was bad alright. Doesn't sound like any of those policies are costed, just random ideas, none of which will be delivered.

As for the one about writing off credit card debt...  :o

Heard Nolan destroy the Green party in a similar interview before a previous election. If you're bluffing you'll be destroyed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on April 29, 2015, 09:18:41 PM
What would a vote for SF actaully achieve in the westminster election?

Other than generate the MP salary/expenses for the SF Machine and reduce the total number of seats a Tory led coalition would need to win to gain a majority that is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 29, 2015, 10:58:25 PM
Quote from: topcuppla on April 29, 2015, 03:16:20 PM
Quote from: naka on April 16, 2015, 08:57:14 PM
Chatting to a few shinners in newry
They are somewhat surprised at the positive response that Justin mc nutty has been getting
They can't see him winning but they feel that it's the first time in a while that the public have started asking real questions.
Tbf it can only be a good thing for all concerned.

I am not - least the man will take his seat!

He gets some trolling from Shinnerbots on his Twitter timeline.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sandy Hill on April 29, 2015, 11:15:43 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 29, 2015, 10:58:25 PM
Quote from: topcuppla on April 29, 2015, 03:16:20 PM
Quote from: naka on April 16, 2015, 08:57:14 PM
Chatting to a few shinners in newry
They are somewhat surprised at the positive response that Justin mc nutty has been getting
They can't see him winning but they feel that it's the first time in a while that the public have started asking real questions.
Tbf it can only be a good thing for all concerned.

I am not - least the man will take his seat!

He gets some trolling from Shinnerbots on his Twitter timeline.

That's one of their fortes. I'd love to see him get in or at the very least rattle their cage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nigel White on April 29, 2015, 11:33:26 PM
He's a complete carpetbagger if ever there was one. No political experience whatsoever. Shit the nest and pulled out of a Destination Newry candidates debate. He was about the 6 th choice for the SDLP with Benny Tierney being the number 1. Unlike The Adder Party candidate Mr S Baldrick they are going to fight this election on personalities not issues
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 29, 2015, 11:57:56 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 29, 2015, 11:33:26 PM
He's a complete carpetbagger if ever there was one. No political experience whatsoever. Shit the nest and pulled out of a Destination Newry candidates debate. He was about the 6 th choice for the SDLP with Benny Tierney being the number 1. Unlike The Adder Party candidate Mr S Baldrick they are going to fight this election on personalities not issues

What issues are there in a Westminster election? Especially as one party is not going to go there and take part in votes and so on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2015, 12:14:07 AM
Does it really matter whether the 6 Cos MPs take seats or not.
18 sideshow reps among 640 loopers going "hee haw" all day long..,... What's the point?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 30, 2015, 12:24:56 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2015, 12:14:07 AM
Does it really matter whether the 6 Cos MPs take seats or not.
18 sideshow reps among 640 loopers going "hee haw" all day long..,... What's the point?
What's the point in standing for election then?

It may well matter on this occasion, depending on how tight the numbers are, but even if you have no influence on the formation of the government, you should still be representing your constituents.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on April 30, 2015, 12:35:25 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2015, 12:14:07 AM
Does it really matter whether the 6 Cos MPs take seats or not.
18 sideshow reps among 640 loopers going "hee haw" all day long..,... What's the point?
In the not too distant past a Government was brought down by a single vote there, and the potential outcome of this election may result in a similar prospect of a unstable majority. SF's absence will make it a little easier though for forming a Government, and sure it'll let them maintain their favourite role of playing the victim whining about "Tory cuts" ad nauseum...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on April 30, 2015, 12:39:33 AM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on April 29, 2015, 11:15:43 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 29, 2015, 10:58:25 PM
Quote from: topcuppla on April 29, 2015, 03:16:20 PM
Quote from: naka on April 16, 2015, 08:57:14 PM
Chatting to a few shinners in newry
They are somewhat surprised at the positive response that Justin mc nutty has been getting
They can't see him winning but they feel that it's the first time in a while that the public have started asking real questions.
Tbf it can only be a good thing for all concerned.

I am not - least the man will take his seat!

He gets some trolling from Shinnerbots on his Twitter timeline.

That's one of their fortes. I'd love to see him get in or at the very least rattle their cage.
Indeed, the Shinnerbots on social media are a toxic mixture of the utterly deluded, the smug arrogant true believers and the downright vile. Pose any threat to their success and the smears and insults will soon follow.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: topcuppla on April 30, 2015, 08:37:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2015, 12:14:07 AM
Does it really matter whether the 6 Cos MPs take seats or not.
18 sideshow reps among 640 loopers going "hee haw" all day long..,... What's the point?

SNP with 20 or so MP's could be running the show, I think there is a hell of a point, I hope Sinn Fein's vote is decimated, a party for the people doing absolutely everything to do nothing for the people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 30, 2015, 08:58:02 AM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 29, 2015, 11:33:26 PM
He's a complete carpetbagger if ever there was one. No political experience whatsoever. Shit the nest and pulled out of a Destination Newry candidates debate. He was about the 6 th choice for the SDLP with Benny Tierney being the number 1. Unlike The Adder Party candidate Mr S Baldrick they are going to fight this election on personalities not issues

Who to believe ?

The SDLP's Justin McNulty has issued a fresh challenge to Sinn Fein's Mickey Brady to come and debate him next Tuesday evening in advance of the Polling Day next Thursday.

Mr McNulty explained, 'I and other candidates were invited to take part in a pre-election debate hosted by Destination Newry a number of weeks ago and we agreed to take part on the basis that the event was impartial and had an experienced independent chair.   We heard nothing until Monday night when we were advised that the date had been fixed for Thursday evening.  We were asked to confirm on Tuesday our availability but we explained that this date did not suit as I have other commitments.  I am hosting a major cross border event on Thursday aimed at bring jobs and investment to Newry and Armagh.  However I offered an alternative date with the same conditions, next Tuesday, just 48 hours before polling but others refused.'

'I am deeply disappointed that Destination Newry called off the debate and even more disappointed that they failed to release the full facts as to why they cancelled the debate.  In case there is any doubt, I am up for the debate and always have been, I am running from no one, I've never ran from anything in my life.  I'm running FOR the people of Newry and Armagh.'

'The debate organisers may have consulted with other candidates about a selection of dates, but they didn't consult me or my team.  I think it is completely disingenuous of them to suggest otherwise.  I am confident in my campaign and the message I am taking to the door steps.  Whilst others have sought to bring negativity to this campaign I have concentrated on offering the people of Newry and Armagh something positive and something different.'

'The people are telling me time and time again on the door step they want a real MP, they want an MP who will go to Westminster and take their seat. They want an MP who will fight for them on the issues which matter. The momentum in this campaign, I believe is building strongly behind me and other candidates and their teams are fully aware of this and trying to create distractions.  I won't be distracted; I will be there for the people of Newry and Armagh.'

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: DuffleKing on April 30, 2015, 09:45:29 AM

If the North MPs organised themselves into a voting bloc, 18 MPs could be very influential
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pearseog on April 30, 2015, 10:20:24 AM
Quote from: topcuppla on April 30, 2015, 08:37:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2015, 12:14:07 AM
Does it really matter whether the 6 Cos MPs take seats or not.
18 sideshow reps among 640 loopers going "hee haw" all day long..,... What's the point?

SNP with 20 or so MP's could be running the show, I think there is a hell of a point, I hope Sinn Fein's vote is decimated, a party for the people doing absolutely everything to do nothing for the people.

What polls are you reading putting the SNP on 20?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Denn Forever on April 30, 2015, 10:26:53 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 30, 2015, 09:45:29 AM

If the North MPs organised themselves into a voting bloc, 18 MPs could be very influential

Looking at Stormont, I don't think they could  hold together.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2015, 11:04:22 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 30, 2015, 10:26:53 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 30, 2015, 09:45:29 AM

If the North MPs organised themselves into a voting bloc, 18 MPs could be very influential

Looking at Stormont, I don't think they could  hold together.
Only if getting grants was involved...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on May 02, 2015, 06:31:56 PM
'.... And bless wishes to all the wains born today'

Mcguinness
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 02, 2015, 07:09:40 PM
The SNP is everything SF isn't, they are really bringing Scottish interests forward.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on May 03, 2015, 09:27:48 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 02, 2015, 07:09:40 PM
The SNP is everything SF isn't, they are really bringing Scottish interests forward.
SNP have a better electorate to work with in fairness.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on May 05, 2015, 11:26:15 AM
Man shot dead in Belfast this morning.  Early reports suggest the victim is former senior IRA man Gerard Davison.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32590282

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bcarrier on May 05, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
Hardly a surprise McNulty doing OK on the doorsteps but unionists running a single candidate complicates things for him. Possbility of a perfectly split "green" vote gives Danny Kennedy a better chance than 33/1s on offer with William Hill.

Newry and Armagh profile here

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ni-election-constituency-profile-of-newry-and-armagh-1.2186569

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 05, 2015, 02:05:13 PM
There was a mention of this in another thread, but this really is the mask slipping. So much for 'Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter'.

Election 2015: Sinn Féin accused over North Belfast 'sectarian leaflet'
4 May 2015

Sinn Féin is facing criticism for publishing election material in North Belfast showing the religious breakdown of the constituency.
The leaflet was published by candidate Gerry Kelly, who is battling to take the seat from the DUP's Nigel Dodds.
Figures from the 2011 census are displayed, showing a Catholic population of 46.9% and a Protestant population of 45.6%.
The tag line is: "Make the change, make history."
Ulster Unionist Tom Elliott said the leaflet was blatantly sectarian.
"Sinn Féin are engaged in the worst and most blatant kind of sectarian campaign yet exhibited by a political party during the general election," he said.
"In their headlong rush to try and win the Westminster seat of North Belfast, they have resorted to the lowest common denominator - sectarianism.
"They will have offended many people across the denominations."
Nuala McAllister of the Alliance Party said there was "nowhere else in these islands where it would be acceptable to target people on the basis of their religion".
"This would be equivalent to a city in the north of England where a party puts out letters highlighting the percentage of the population that is Christian versus the percentage of the population that is Muslim," she said.
"The more that we talk about this divide, the more that we talk about this sectarian headcount, it just perpetuates the divide more. This is lazy politics."
The DUP's Nigel Dodds also criticised the leaflet: "Sinn Féin like to take about equality in public, but privately they make it clear that equality is nothing more than a Trojan Horse to break unionists.
"Publicly Sinn Féin talk about challenging sectarianism, but then produce leaflets which rely on blatant sectarian head counting in North Belfast."
Gerry Kelly said the leaflet merely presented official census figures and offered "compelling official evidence of significant demographic change" in the constituency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-northern-ireland-32582673
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 02:25:40 PM
While I agree that it is poor form by Sinn Fein; a bit of context please. It's North Belfast fgs. When in Rome and all that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on May 05, 2015, 02:40:46 PM
It's a good story until you reach the bit where Tom Elliott calls something blatantly sectarian!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on May 05, 2015, 02:43:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 05, 2015, 02:05:13 PM
There was a mention of this in another thread, but this really is the mask slipping. So much for 'Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter'.

Election 2015: Sinn Féin accused over North Belfast 'sectarian leaflet'
4 May 2015

Sinn Féin is facing criticism for publishing election material in North Belfast showing the religious breakdown of the constituency.
The leaflet was published by candidate Gerry Kelly, who is battling to take the seat from the DUP's Nigel Dodds.
Figures from the 2011 census are displayed, showing a Catholic population of 46.9% and a Protestant population of 45.6%.
The tag line is: "Make the change, make history."
Ulster Unionist Tom Elliott said the leaflet was blatantly sectarian.
"Sinn Féin are engaged in the worst and most blatant kind of sectarian campaign yet exhibited by a political party during the general election," he said.
"In their headlong rush to try and win the Westminster seat of North Belfast, they have resorted to the lowest common denominator - sectarianism.
"They will have offended many people across the denominations."
Nuala McAllister of the Alliance Party said there was "nowhere else in these islands where it would be acceptable to target people on the basis of their religion".
"This would be equivalent to a city in the north of England where a party puts out letters highlighting the percentage of the population that is Christian versus the percentage of the population that is Muslim," she said.
"The more that we talk about this divide, the more that we talk about this sectarian headcount, it just perpetuates the divide more. This is lazy politics."
The DUP's Nigel Dodds also criticised the leaflet: "Sinn Féin like to take about equality in public, but privately they make it clear that equality is nothing more than a Trojan Horse to break unionists.
"Publicly Sinn Féin talk about challenging sectarianism, but then produce leaflets which rely on blatant sectarian head counting in North Belfast."
Gerry Kelly said the leaflet merely presented official census figures and offered "compelling official evidence of significant demographic change" in the constituency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-northern-ireland-32582673

Another example of PC gone mad. The dogs in the street know that the vast majority of catholics will vote SF/SDLP and the vast majority of protestants will vote UUP/DUP. Don't really know how this is considered newsworthy other than the fact that the Unionists are trying to gain some capital out of it as the elections are coming up and it took a bit of the heat off the Jim Wells incident.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 05, 2015, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 02:25:40 PM
While I agree that it is poor form by Sinn Fein; a bit of context please. It's North Belfast fgs. When in Rome and all that.
How come it is only a sectarian head count when its the Shinners? All Unionist parties have no difficulty standing single candidates when a head count is in there favour.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 02:58:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 05, 2015, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 02:25:40 PM
While I agree that it is poor form by Sinn Fein; a bit of context please. It's North Belfast fgs. When in Rome and all that.
How come it is only a sectarian head count when its the Shinners? All Unionist parties have no difficulty standing single candidates when a head count is in there favour.
Every election in the North is a sectarian head count.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on May 05, 2015, 03:05:09 PM
It was a stupid leaflet for Sinn Fein in North Belfast to put out. But it's one leaflet in one area (mind you we've seen the damage one leaflet in one area can do in the past). It's a bit rich unionists playing the sectarian card when they are involved in electoral pacts. 

Mike TV has said he is voting DUP in East Belfast. Where else in the world would you get anyone (in this case their leader no less) from one political party voting for another party?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 05, 2015, 03:07:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 05, 2015, 03:05:09 PM
Mike TV has said he is voting DUP in East Belfast. Where else in the world would you get anyone (in this case their leader no less) from one political party voting for another party?

I can't believe I haven't seen him called that before. Made me laugh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 05, 2015, 03:22:56 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 02:25:40 PM
While I agree that it is poor form by Sinn Fein; a bit of context please. It's North Belfast fgs. When in Rome and all that.
It's all fine if that's the way they want to campaign. But forget all talk of republican principles - this is catholic nationalism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 05, 2015, 03:25:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 05, 2015, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 02:25:40 PM
While I agree that it is poor form by Sinn Fein; a bit of context please. It's North Belfast fgs. When in Rome and all that.
How come it is only a sectarian head count when its the Shinners? All Unionist parties have no difficulty standing single candidates when a head count is in there favour.
We all know the realities of sectarian headcounts, but nothing has been quite as blatant as this leaflet. Unionists can say they want to maximise 'unionist' representation - unless i've missed it, they haven't explicitly been talking about 'protestant' representation. It's a subtle difference, and most people can see through it, but it's an important difference.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on May 05, 2015, 03:35:16 PM
Its very disappointing. While unionist politicians will regularly mention religion, nationalist very rarely do; a reflection of the importance it holds for each side - but with this leaflet, a moral high ground has been conceded, and I don't think it can be regained. Very misguided.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 05, 2015, 03:39:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 05, 2015, 03:25:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 05, 2015, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 02:25:40 PM
While I agree that it is poor form by Sinn Fein; a bit of context please. It's North Belfast fgs. When in Rome and all that.
How come it is only a sectarian head count when its the Shinners? All Unionist parties have no difficulty standing single candidates when a head count is in there favour.
We all know the realities of sectarian headcounts, but nothing has been quite as blatant as this leaflet. Unionists can say they want to maximise 'unionist' representation - unless i've missed it, they haven't explicitly been talking about 'protestant' representation. It's a subtle difference, and most people can see through it, but it's an important difference.
You are splitting hairs. There is no other way to get the point across.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 03:46:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 05, 2015, 03:22:56 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 02:25:40 PM
While I agree that it is poor form by Sinn Fein; a bit of context please. It's North Belfast fgs. When in Rome and all that.
It's all fine if that's the way they want to campaign. But forget all talk of republican principles - this is catholic nationalism.
Well the reaction of other SFers outside of Belfast would suggest that it isn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 05, 2015, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 05, 2015, 03:39:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 05, 2015, 03:25:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 05, 2015, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 05, 2015, 02:25:40 PM
While I agree that it is poor form by Sinn Fein; a bit of context please. It's North Belfast fgs. When in Rome and all that.
How come it is only a sectarian head count when its the Shinners? All Unionist parties have no difficulty standing single candidates when a head count is in there favour.
We all know the realities of sectarian headcounts, but nothing has been quite as blatant as this leaflet. Unionists can say they want to maximise 'unionist' representation - unless i've missed it, they haven't explicitly been talking about 'protestant' representation. It's a subtle difference, and most people can see through it, but it's an important difference.
You are splitting hairs. There is no other way to get the point across.
As i've said, if that's what they're all about, stand up and say it, but don't pretend to be standing on some honourable republican principles.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on May 05, 2015, 04:13:54 PM
A few SF ones broke rank and criticised the party over the leaflet, which is rare.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 05, 2015, 04:35:17 PM
Elections are headcounts. Nigel Dodds is the incumbent. They have (rightly or wrongly) shown figures that indicate that if enough of one section of the community vote for their candidate Mr Dodds will not be returned.
I don't know what the previous demographics in N belfast were but perhaps in the past nationalist candidates didn't have a hope of winning the seat.
It's not much different to the unionist pacts in F/S tyrone etc., just a bit more blatant. Who said elections weren't dirty? everyone pulls out the stops to win.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on May 06, 2015, 12:46:37 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 04:13:54 PM
A few SF ones broke rank and criticised the party over the leaflet, which is rare.

Where did you see this Minder?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: topcuppla on May 06, 2015, 08:56:36 AM
Sinn Fein's negative campaigning in Newry and Armagh sum them up, posters of McNulty in a skip, if you are going to debate, debate.  Not one party leader came across with anything to offer on the BBC debate last night.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on May 06, 2015, 03:34:27 PM
Quote from: topcuppla on May 06, 2015, 08:56:36 AM
Sinn Fein's negative campaigning in Newry and Armagh sum them up, posters of McNulty in a skip, if you are going to debate, debate.  Not one party leader came across with anything to offer on the BBC debate last night.

That's because only one party leader was actually present and he's voting for another party.

Seriously though it was as depressing as feck.....this tweet summed it up - https://twitter.com/LADFLEG/status/595667268677332992

"You could watch this #NIDebate with the sound down and still guess with 100% accuracy what the spoofers are saying"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 19, 2015, 12:40:42 AM
Good to see SF taking the opportunity to meet with Prince Charles in an act of reconciliation.
If these 2 sides can make peace and reconcile with each other and apologise for the past, this example of sound leadership should be used throughout the world's trouble spots.

Well done Gerry and Marty. Another step along the way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: topcuppla on May 19, 2015, 08:49:18 AM
Yeah well done lads so you will meet the Royal, banquet with them, shake hands, exchange pleasantries etc but will you f**k enter their parliament, even know you do because you enter stormount which is technically their parliament as well!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on May 19, 2015, 09:08:27 AM
Quote from: topcuppla on May 19, 2015, 08:49:18 AM
Yeah well done lads so you will meet the Royal, banquet with them, shake hands, exchange pleasantries etc but will you f**k enter their parliament, even know you do because you enter stormount which is technically their parliament as well!

Tis a rare enough thing to see a silk purse turned into a sow's ear.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2015, 11:10:17 AM
If Oliver Cromwell was to return and pay a visit they would trip over themselves to meet him and tell us all how it good for the peace process. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 19, 2015, 11:14:21 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2015, 11:10:17 AM
If Oliver Cromwell was to return and pay a visit they would trip over themselves to meet him and tell us all how it good for the peace process.

That's a bit harsh. They go to great lengths to avoid his statue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 19, 2015, 11:33:55 AM
Quote from: deiseach on May 19, 2015, 11:14:21 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2015, 11:10:17 AM
If Oliver Cromwell was to return and pay a visit they would trip over themselves to meet him and tell us all how it good for the peace process.

That's a bit harsh. They go to great lengths to avoid his statue.

If he came back and cleaned out Drogheda, some good could come of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2015, 01:26:03 PM
Paul Maskey protesting the visit that his leaders support.

The shinners sure know how to ride 2 horses at once

(https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/10462325_1585195805103499_3885685749036721942_n.jpg?oh=81fb65082e722e1259132190f7ef506c&oe=55FD57EA)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 19, 2015, 01:54:39 PM
They wern't asking Charlie to stay away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 19, 2015, 04:11:06 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFYI1WRWoAAMaYA.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on May 21, 2015, 12:40:24 AM
So that's the end of that then. Charlie is away back home. Difficult moments over. Not sure what all the fuss was about all along. Charlie not bad at the Gaeilge. No strangers here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 21, 2015, 01:16:07 AM
Is Chuck not in the wee 6 tomorrow? Let's see if he speaks Irish there
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 21, 2015, 12:56:57 PM
He is due in Belfast today. No doubt Sinn Fein will once again roll out the red carpet for them and give them another good arse licking
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 21, 2015, 01:21:33 PM
How's yer ma?

(http://cdn2.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article31241288.ece/40108/ALTERNATES/h342/nceCharles7734jpg.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bingo on May 21, 2015, 01:47:53 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 21, 2015, 01:21:33 PM
How's yer ma?

(http://cdn2.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article31241288.ece/40108/ALTERNATES/h342/nceCharles7734jpg.jpg)

Typical Nordie, always Sledging.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on May 21, 2015, 01:47:54 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 21, 2015, 01:21:33 PM
How's yer ma?

Ireland 2015

(http://cdn2.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article31241288.ece/40108/ALTERNATES/h342/nceCharles7734jpg.jpg)

Dublin 1900

(http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2011/05/Leaving-Kingstown-Harbor.png)






There are those who said it is ok to meet the British royals now but not then........... what is the difference?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 21, 2015, 02:13:45 PM
Quote from: Bingo on May 21, 2015, 01:47:53 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 21, 2015, 01:21:33 PM
How's yer ma?

(http://cdn2.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article31241288.ece/40108/ALTERNATES/h342/nceCharles7734jpg.jpg)

Typical Nordie, always Sledging.

A drive by Sledging at that......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on May 21, 2015, 02:15:00 PM
I suppose McGuinness has someone to thank for not proceeding with his prosecution all those years ago........

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11202666_923013387761506_7479358669608169290_n.jpg?oh=1163a87e4bc9694de06ed4289aef4536&oe=5606386D&__gda__=1438655081_1323c95881c78f75a94cf4426482aca8)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 21, 2015, 09:19:32 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 19, 2015, 11:14:21 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2015, 11:10:17 AM
If Oliver Cromwell was to return and pay a visit they would trip over themselves to meet him and tell us all how it good for the peace process.

That's a bit harsh. They go to great lengths to avoid his statue.
;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 21, 2015, 09:43:16 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2015, 01:26:03 PM
Paul Maskey protesting the visit that his leaders support.

The shinners sure know how to ride 2 horses at once

More of the same today - McGuinness meeting Prince Charles, and Gerry Kelly and Maskey protesting at him being here! It's like their standing on picket lines in March, protesting at the cuts they had just approved. Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on May 21, 2015, 10:00:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2015, 09:43:16 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2015, 01:26:03 PM
Paul Maskey protesting the visit that his leaders support.

The shinners sure know how to ride 2 horses at once

More of the same today - McGuinness meeting Prince Charles, and Gerry Kelly and Maskey protesting at him being here! It's like their standing on picket lines in March, protesting at the cuts they had just approved. Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds.
Comical but sums up Northern Ireland
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 21, 2015, 11:13:42 PM
Why go to Westminster when Westminster comes to you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 21, 2015, 11:08:53 PM
Sitting in Westminster still a step too far though??
::)

Maybe they should take half of the seats and then have the rest protest outside?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 21, 2015, 11:08:53 PM
Sitting in Westminster still a step too far though??
::)

Maybe they should take half of the seats and then have the rest protest outside?
;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on May 22, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 21, 2015, 11:08:53 PM
Sitting in Westminster still a step too far though??
::)

Maybe they should take half of the seats and then have the rest protest outside?

They could take half the oath and leave out the bit about the Queen (though Marty may want to keep that bit in?).  Maybe Mary McAleese could take the oath by proxy for them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 22, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2015, 09:43:16 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 19, 2015, 01:26:03 PM
Paul Maskey protesting the visit that his leaders support.

The shinners sure know how to ride 2 horses at once

More of the same today - McGuinness meeting Prince Charles, and Gerry Kelly and Maskey protesting at him being here! It's like their standing on picket lines in March, protesting at the cuts they had just approved. Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds.

<insert 'No Foreign Games' image here>
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 11:16:38 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2015, 09:43:16 PM
More of the same today - McGuinness meeting Prince Charles, and Gerry Kelly and Maskey protesting at him being here! It's like their standing on picket lines in March, protesting at the cuts they had just approved. Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds.

Okay show us why you believe they were "protesting at him being here".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on May 22, 2015, 11:58:32 AM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 11:16:38 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2015, 09:43:16 PM
More of the same today - McGuinness meeting Prince Charles, and Gerry Kelly and Maskey protesting at him being here! It's like their standing on picket lines in March, protesting at the cuts they had just approved. Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds.

Okay show us why you believe they were "protesting at him being here".
I understood it was because he was CinC of the Paras and was led by relatives of the Ballymurphy victims. Are you saying they weren't protesting about his being there?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 12:22:42 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 22, 2015, 11:58:32 AM
I understood it was because he was CinC of the Paras and was led by relatives of the Ballymurphy victims. Are you saying they weren't protesting about his being there?

I am yes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:25:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 12:22:42 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 22, 2015, 11:58:32 AM
I understood it was because he was CinC of the Paras and was led by relatives of the Ballymurphy victims. Are you saying they weren't protesting about his being there?

I am yes.

You have the floor. You can give us a reasonable explanation if there is one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on May 22, 2015, 12:33:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:25:37 PM
You have the floor. You can give us a reasonable explanation if there is one.

Are you also interested in finding out how many angels can dance on a pinhead?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:46:30 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 22, 2015, 12:33:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:25:37 PM
You have the floor. You can give us a reasonable explanation if there is one.

Are you also interested in finding out how many angels can dance on a pinhead?

Tell me more about these angels....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:25:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 12:22:42 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 22, 2015, 11:58:32 AM
I understood it was because he was CinC of the Paras and was led by relatives of the Ballymurphy victims. Are you saying they weren't protesting about his being there?

I am yes.

You have the floor. You can give us a reasonable explanation if there is one.

If you want me to prove a negative you'll first have to produce some evidence that Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on May 22, 2015, 02:27:55 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:25:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 12:22:42 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 22, 2015, 11:58:32 AM
I understood it was because he was CinC of the Paras and was led by relatives of the Ballymurphy victims. Are you saying they weren't protesting about his being there?

I am yes.

You have the floor. You can give us a reasonable explanation if there is one.

If you want me to prove a negative you'll first have to produce some evidence that Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/royal-visit-healing-and-respect-is-theme-at-belfast-church-with-a-troubled-past-31243401.html

Relatives of the Ballymurphy massacre victims were joined by Sinn Fein politicians Gerry Kelly MLA and Paul Maskey MP when they held a protest near the church. John Teggart, whose father Danny was shot dead by troops from the Parachute Regiment in August 1971, said he would like Prince Charles, Colonel-in-Chief of the regiment, to "acknowledge the hurt" of the relatives during his visit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on May 22, 2015, 02:50:43 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 22, 2015, 02:27:55 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:25:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 12:22:42 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 22, 2015, 11:58:32 AM
I understood it was because he was CinC of the Paras and was led by relatives of the Ballymurphy victims. Are you saying they weren't protesting about his being there?

I am yes.

You have the floor. You can give us a reasonable explanation if there is one.

If you want me to prove a negative you'll first have to produce some evidence that Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/royal-visit-healing-and-respect-is-theme-at-belfast-church-with-a-troubled-past-31243401.html

Relatives of the Ballymurphy massacre victims were joined by Sinn Fein politicians Gerry Kelly MLA and Paul Maskey MP when they held a protest near the church. John Teggart, whose father Danny was shot dead by troops from the Parachute Regiment in August 1971, said he would like Prince Charles, Colonel-in-Chief of the regiment, to "acknowledge the hurt" of the relatives during his visit.

I don't think that what you have referenced, or the article details what they were protesting about?  It would be hard for him to acknowledge the hurt during the visit, if he wasn't visiting.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 12:25:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 12:22:42 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 22, 2015, 11:58:32 AM
I understood it was because he was CinC of the Paras and was led by relatives of the Ballymurphy victims. Are you saying they weren't protesting about his being there?

I am yes.

You have the floor. You can give us a reasonable explanation if there is one.

If you want me to prove a negative you'll first have to produce some evidence that Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit.

That would be a no then.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

So the protest was in support of his visit?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

So the protest was in support of his visit?

Are you saying it was against the visit? If so show me the evidence?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 05:44:09 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

So the protest was in support of his visit?

Are you saying it was against the visit? If so show me the evidence?
Well the one on Tuesday was, according the an appropriate source:

THE FAMILIES of 11 nationalists killed by the British Army's Parachute Regiment in what is known as the Ballymurphy Massacre staged a protest at Belfast City Hall on Tuesday 19 May against the impending visit to the city of British royal Prince Charles, Colonel-in-Chief of the Paras.
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/25002

And in interviews with those protesting on Radio Ulster, at least some were clearly against him visiting. Another source here:
John Teggart, whose father Danny was one of those killed in the massacre, criticised the Royal visit.

"The Ballymurphy massacre families totally oppose Prince Charles, the Colonel-in-Chief of the Parachute Regiment, walking the streets of Belfast where the blood of innocent civilians has been shed by the regiment that he commands," he said.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/sf-mp-joins-ballymurphy-victims-families-at-city-hall-protest-1-6753097


So if Kelly and Maskey were not protesting against the visit, were they aware that those around them were? Or were the other protesters aware that Kelly and Maskey weren't opposed to the visit?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 22, 2015, 05:46:46 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

So the protest was in support of his visit?

Are you saying it was against the visit? If so show me the evidence?

That wasn't me. I said you had the floor and could give a reasonable explanation. You refused.

But you did call it a protest as highlighted above.

So what were they protesting about?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on May 22, 2015, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 05:44:09 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

So the protest was in support of his visit?

Are you saying it was against the visit? If so show me the evidence?
Well the one on Tuesday was, according the an appropriate source:

THE FAMILIES of 11 nationalists killed by the British Army's Parachute Regiment in what is known as the Ballymurphy Massacre staged a protest at Belfast City Hall on Tuesday 19 May against the impending visit to the city of British royal Prince Charles, Colonel-in-Chief of the Paras.
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/25002

And in interviews with those protesting on Radio Ulster, at least some were clearly against him visiting. Another source here:
John Teggart, whose father Danny was one of those killed in the massacre, criticised the Royal visit.

"The Ballymurphy massacre families totally oppose Prince Charles, the Colonel-in-Chief of the Parachute Regiment, walking the streets of Belfast where the blood of innocent civilians has been shed by the regiment that he commands," he said.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/sf-mp-joins-ballymurphy-victims-families-at-city-hall-protest-1-6753097


So if Kelly and Maskey were not protesting against the visit, were they aware that those around them were? Or were the other protesters aware that Kelly and Maskey weren't opposed to the visit?

I didn't know you subscribed to An Phoblacht.
Won't be a stoop for much longer  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 05:58:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 05:46:46 PM

That wasn't me. I said you had the floor and could give a reasonable explanation. You refused.

But you did call it a protest as highlighted above.

So what were they protesting about?

Because they have been denied an investigation into the killing of their relations.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 05:58:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2015, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 05:44:09 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

So the protest was in support of his visit?

Are you saying it was against the visit? If so show me the evidence?
Well the one on Tuesday was, according the an appropriate source:

THE FAMILIES of 11 nationalists killed by the British Army's Parachute Regiment in what is known as the Ballymurphy Massacre staged a protest at Belfast City Hall on Tuesday 19 May against the impending visit to the city of British royal Prince Charles, Colonel-in-Chief of the Paras.
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/25002

And in interviews with those protesting on Radio Ulster, at least some were clearly against him visiting. Another source here:
John Teggart, whose father Danny was one of those killed in the massacre, criticised the Royal visit.

"The Ballymurphy massacre families totally oppose Prince Charles, the Colonel-in-Chief of the Parachute Regiment, walking the streets of Belfast where the blood of innocent civilians has been shed by the regiment that he commands," he said.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/sf-mp-joins-ballymurphy-victims-families-at-city-hall-protest-1-6753097


So if Kelly and Maskey were not protesting against the visit, were they aware that those around them were? Or were the other protesters aware that Kelly and Maskey weren't opposed to the visit?

I didn't know you subscribed to An Phoblacht.
Won't be a stoop for much longer  ;D
Firstly, i'm not a 'stoop'. Secondly, the article appeared on a Google search.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 06:02:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 05:44:09 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

So the protest was in support of his visit?

Are you saying it was against the visit? If so show me the evidence?
Well the one on Tuesday was, according the an appropriate source:

THE FAMILIES of 11 nationalists killed by the British Army's Parachute Regiment in what is known as the Ballymurphy Massacre staged a protest at Belfast City Hall on Tuesday 19 May against the impending visit to the city of British royal Prince Charles, Colonel-in-Chief of the Paras.
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/25002

And in interviews with those protesting on Radio Ulster, at least some were clearly against him visiting. Another source here:
John Teggart, whose father Danny was one of those killed in the massacre, criticised the Royal visit.

"The Ballymurphy massacre families totally oppose Prince Charles, the Colonel-in-Chief of the Parachute Regiment, walking the streets of Belfast where the blood of innocent civilians has been shed by the regiment that he commands," he said.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/sf-mp-joins-ballymurphy-victims-families-at-city-hall-protest-1-6753097


So if Kelly and Maskey were not protesting against the visit, were they aware that those around them were? Or were the other protesters aware that Kelly and Maskey weren't opposed to the visit?

Kelly and Maskey have supported demand for a fresh inquiry from the beginning. Their presence was nothing more than further reflection of that. Trying to twist into something else is just bollocks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on May 22, 2015, 06:08:56 PM
I'm not sure SF supported can use the term "stoop" anymore.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 06:27:49 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 06:02:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 05:44:09 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

So the protest was in support of his visit?

Are you saying it was against the visit? If so show me the evidence?
Well the one on Tuesday was, according the an appropriate source:

THE FAMILIES of 11 nationalists killed by the British Army's Parachute Regiment in what is known as the Ballymurphy Massacre staged a protest at Belfast City Hall on Tuesday 19 May against the impending visit to the city of British royal Prince Charles, Colonel-in-Chief of the Paras.
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/25002

And in interviews with those protesting on Radio Ulster, at least some were clearly against him visiting. Another source here:
John Teggart, whose father Danny was one of those killed in the massacre, criticised the Royal visit.

"The Ballymurphy massacre families totally oppose Prince Charles, the Colonel-in-Chief of the Parachute Regiment, walking the streets of Belfast where the blood of innocent civilians has been shed by the regiment that he commands," he said.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/sf-mp-joins-ballymurphy-victims-families-at-city-hall-protest-1-6753097


So if Kelly and Maskey were not protesting against the visit, were they aware that those around them were? Or were the other protesters aware that Kelly and Maskey weren't opposed to the visit?

Kelly and Maskey have supported demand for a fresh inquiry from the beginning. Their presence was nothing more than further reflection of that. Trying to twist into something else is just bollocks.
I never claimed they didn't or don't support a fresh inquiry, but i've provided a couple of sources that show this was a protest against the visit. Maybe they should have made clear to the other protesters that they actually welcomed the visit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 22, 2015, 07:21:44 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 06:02:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 05:44:09 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 22, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
That would be a no then.

Read the article posted above. The protest was not about the visit rather they wanted him to "acknowledge the hurt". The Ballymurphy families are attempting to get an investigation into the killings. They're not about protesting Royal visits. Though if you have evidence that they, Kelly and Maskey were protesting against the visit then you could produce it easily enough?

So the protest was in support of his visit?

Are you saying it was against the visit? If so show me the evidence?
Well the one on Tuesday was, according the an appropriate source:

THE FAMILIES of 11 nationalists killed by the British Army's Parachute Regiment in what is known as the Ballymurphy Massacre staged a protest at Belfast City Hall on Tuesday 19 May against the impending visit to the city of British royal Prince Charles, Colonel-in-Chief of the Paras.
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/25002

And in interviews with those protesting on Radio Ulster, at least some were clearly against him visiting. Another source here:
John Teggart, whose father Danny was one of those killed in the massacre, criticised the Royal visit.

"The Ballymurphy massacre families totally oppose Prince Charles, the Colonel-in-Chief of the Parachute Regiment, walking the streets of Belfast where the blood of innocent civilians has been shed by the regiment that he commands," he said.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/sf-mp-joins-ballymurphy-victims-families-at-city-hall-protest-1-6753097


So if Kelly and Maskey were not protesting against the visit, were they aware that those around them were? Or were the other protesters aware that Kelly and Maskey weren't opposed to the visit?

Kelly and Maskey have supported demand for a fresh inquiry from the beginning. Their presence was nothing more than further reflection of that. Trying to twist into something else is just bollocks.

You used the word protest yourself.

The protest was where Charlie was.

Was Charlie's presence a coincidence or was the protest linked to him in some way?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on May 22, 2015, 10:47:40 PM
Can you all stop referring to the man as Charlie, his name is Charles.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 22, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on May 22, 2015, 10:47:40 PM
Can you all stop referring to the man as Charlie, his name is Charles.

What's his surname though? Windsor or Saxe-Coburg (spelling may be incorrect)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2015, 10:59:56 PM
Cathal (no Searlai) Dr Uinsor??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on May 27, 2015, 09:07:15 AM
Dessie Ellis on R1 this morning and got his arse handed to him. I've never heard him before but you'd have thought SF would have better speakers than this fella.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2015, 09:15:20 AM
I see they've " stopped Tory cuts" in the North now.
Is the next move that the Brit Govt takes Welfare back from Stormont and brings in the same cuts as in England and Wales?
Meanwhile SF tell the gullible ones they are anti Austerity and anti just about everything else nasty as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 27, 2015, 09:22:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 27, 2015, 09:15:20 AM
I see they've " stopped Tory cuts" in the North now.
Is the next move that the Brit Govt takes Welfare back from Stormont and brings in the same cuts as in England and Wales?
Meanwhile SF tell the gullible ones they are anti Austerity and anti just about everything else nasty as well.
Worth noting that SF, The Greens and the SDLP pulled this bill down. Unionist parties are too quick to toe the UK line, afraid it will make them some what less British than Finchley. UK government will be slow to take anything back from Stormont as it could well see the unravelling of the GFA, which is an international agreement. Whilst I am somewhat annoyed at the northern benefits culture, I have no particular love of Stormont and wouldn't shed many tears at its demise. SF are not usually prone to taking steps like this unless they are pretty sure of the likely outcomes. SDLP opposition to the bill probably also had a major bearing on SF's attitude. I'd guess electoral success in the South is a likely higher priority than the Sick Counties. and yes I meant sick.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2015, 09:53:32 AM
They got around 16% first prefs in the by election which is a quota in a 5 seater.
Meanwhile their populist nonsensical policies will ensure they'll hoover up loony left transfers and likely get them a lot of seats in 4 seaters.
As for the sick Counties..... If the Tories want to keep it at a distance they will likely concoct some deal to keep the Stormont show going till there is a Nationalist majority and they can get out of town.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on May 27, 2015, 10:40:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 27, 2015, 09:53:32 AM
They got around 16% first prefs in the by election which is a quota in a 5 seater.
Meanwhile their populist nonsensical policies will ensure they'll hoover up loony left transfers and likely get them a lot of seats in 4 seaters.
As for the sick Counties..... If the Tories want to keep it at a distance they will likely concoct some deal to keep the Stormont show going till there is a Nationalist majority and they can get out of town.

Does this differ from any of the other parties in any substantive way??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2015, 10:45:59 AM
Two of the other parties ( FG and Lab) had to live in the real world since 2011.
Lucyloola's new PDs are only appealing to their own niche- well heeled right leaning people who won't be depending on public services.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 10:17:23 PM
Interesting breakdown on Slugger of the NI welfare cuts
http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/05/27/truth-or-consequences-the-potential-impact-of-un-devolving-welfare/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on June 22, 2015, 06:04:32 PM
Kicking the can down the road, after all it worked for Greece
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-supports-norths-budget-plan-683222.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on June 24, 2015, 10:55:58 PM
What's happening with SF in Cork? 54 members of Cobh branch have resigned in protest at treatment of two councillors
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on June 25, 2015, 01:35:27 AM
Quote from: Minder on June 24, 2015, 10:55:58 PM
What's happening with SF in Cork? 54 members of Cobh branch have resigned in protest at treatment of two councillors

Gerrymandering?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on June 25, 2015, 01:37:41 AM
Rebelling?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mayo4Sam on June 25, 2015, 11:12:23 AM
Very in-Sinn Fein behaviour, party members not towing the line

Maybe Mary-Lou could learn a thing or two from these people and grow some principles of her own
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on June 25, 2015, 07:43:52 PM
This isn't the right thread but......

Did anyone see Ruth Copinger say yesterday 'How dare' Noonan lecture the Greek Government, as she then proceeded to lecture the Irish Government.  ;D I thought the hypocrisy was very funny.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 25, 2015, 07:59:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 25, 2015, 07:43:52 PM
This isn't the right thread but......

Did anyone see Ruth Copinger say yesterday 'How dare' Noonan lecture the Greek Government, as she then proceeded to lecture the Irish Government.  ;D I thought the hypocrisy was very funny.
Don't ya know that loonylefties are always right all the time about everything. ;)
Seems to be shenanigans among the Cork FF fraternity too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 27, 2015, 06:30:16 PM
The shenanigans continue in East Cork and a 3 point drop in latest RedC poll.
Wondering why this thread has been so quiet ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on August 13, 2015, 08:12:18 PM
Strange one:

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/courts/sinn-fein-councillor-acquitted-of-benefit-fraud-1-6854127 (http://www.derryjournal.com/news/courts/sinn-fein-councillor-acquitted-of-benefit-fraud-1-6854127)

I'd say this was more a misguided mentality, than deliberately malicious.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on September 13, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
I always thought it was 'hokey pokey" instead of 'hokey cokey'. Good man gerry. U cleared that up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: MoChara on September 14, 2015, 11:44:59 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/in1vD8s.jpg)


Bobby Storey getting all poetic about the IRA caterpillars

“I think the chief constable and other perspectives out there see this in terms of the IRA being the caterpillar that’s still there, where I think it’s moved on, it’s become a butterfly, it’s flew away, it’s gone, it’s disappeared and they need to evolve to that as well.”

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-news/ira-has-vanished-like-a-butterfly-bobby-storey-1-6955479
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on September 14, 2015, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 13, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
I always thought it was 'hokey pokey" instead of 'hokey cokey'. Good man gerry. U cleared that up

It's PARTick Thistle, not PATRick Thistle. You're welcome.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 14, 2015, 11:51:59 AM
My favourite book of all time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Very_Hungry_Caterpillar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Very_Hungry_Caterpillar)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Never beat the deeler on September 14, 2015, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 14, 2015, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 13, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
I always thought it was 'hokey pokey" instead of 'hokey cokey'. Good man gerry. U cleared that up

It's PARTick Thistle, not PATRick Thistle. You're welcome.

reMUNeration
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on September 14, 2015, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 14, 2015, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 13, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
I always thought it was 'hokey pokey" instead of 'hokey cokey'. Good man gerry. U cleared that up

It's PARTick Thistle, not PATRick Thistle. You're welcome.

reMUNeration
Chimney not chimbley.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on September 14, 2015, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on September 14, 2015, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 14, 2015, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 13, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
I always thought it was 'hokey pokey" instead of 'hokey cokey'. Good man gerry. U cleared that up

It's PARTick Thistle, not PATRick Thistle. You're welcome.

reMUNeration
Chimney not chimbley.

I saw it. Not I seen it!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 14, 2015, 07:03:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 14, 2015, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on September 14, 2015, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 14, 2015, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 13, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
I always thought it was 'hokey pokey" instead of 'hokey cokey'. Good man gerry. U cleared that up

It's PARTick Thistle, not PATRick Thistle. You're welcome.

reMUNeration
Chimney not chimbley.

I saw it. Not I seen it!

A car stopping requires brakes, not breaks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on September 14, 2015, 08:11:22 PM
Is this 'take the hand out of ticklemister day?'
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 14, 2015, 07:03:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 14, 2015, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on September 14, 2015, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 14, 2015, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 13, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
I always thought it was 'hokey pokey" instead of 'hokey cokey'. Good man gerry. U cleared that up

It's PARTick Thistle, not PATRick Thistle. You're welcome.

reMUNeration
Chimney not chimbley.

I saw it. Not I seen it!

A car stopping requires brakes, not breaks.
Our not are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 14, 2015, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 14, 2015, 07:03:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 14, 2015, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on September 14, 2015, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 14, 2015, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 13, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
I always thought it was 'hokey pokey" instead of 'hokey cokey'. Good man gerry. U cleared that up

It's PARTick Thistle, not PATRick Thistle. You're welcome.

reMUNeration
Chimney not chimbley.

I saw it. Not I seen it!

A car stopping requires brakes, not breaks.
Our not are.
Were you there? Not 'Where you there?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: doodaa on September 14, 2015, 09:59:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 14, 2015, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 14, 2015, 07:03:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 14, 2015, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on September 14, 2015, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 14, 2015, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on September 13, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
I always thought it was 'hokey pokey" instead of 'hokey cokey'. Good man gerry. U cleared that up

It's PARTick Thistle, not PATRick Thistle. You're welcome.

reMUNeration
Chimney not chimbley.

I saw it. Not I seen it!

A car stopping requires brakes, not breaks.
Our not are.
Were you there? Not 'Where you there?

Bought not brought when someone is buying something.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: on the hop on September 14, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Adams just said on Claire Byrne that he believed that the state was involved in the murders in the north, what a comment to drop
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 15, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
Quote from: on the hop on September 14, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Adams just said on Claire Byrne that he believed that the state was involved in the murders in the north, what a comment to drop

Wonder how the man's family feel about that, and if they believe him. I assume that he will be giving his evidence to the Police Ombudsman.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on September 15, 2015, 01:03:49 AM
Quote from: on the hop on September 14, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Adams just said on Claire Byrne that he believed that the state was involved in the murders in the north, what a comment to drop

How long was he on Claire Byrne?

And..ahem...rule 1.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 15, 2015, 02:24:16 AM
I remember when I used to understand this thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: MoChara on September 15, 2015, 10:14:35 AM
Quote from: on the hop on September 14, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Adams just said on Claire Byrne that he believed that the state was involved in the murders in the north, what a comment to drop

Yeah peculiar comment indeed, back in the day "State agents"  were a grand go to answer but now his party are leading members of the state supporting the state forces it seems a bit like political acrobatics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on September 15, 2015, 12:04:46 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 15, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
Quote from: on the hop on September 14, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Adams just said on Claire Byrne that he believed that the state was involved in the murders in the north, what a comment to drop

Wonder how the man's family feel about that, and if they believe him. I assume that he will be giving his evidence to the Police Ombudsman.

Sure you don't need evidence to arrest people, then you'll hardly need evidence to throw out flippant comments like the PSNI chief constable was making about the murders or indeed Gerrys comments on 'State Agents'.
Its just muddying the waters to suit a political need, both sides are at it, even though the PSNI are supposed to be politically impartial...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 16, 2015, 09:16:54 AM
I thought George Hamilton could have said a lot more, there is no doubt that the RA still exists, there are those who are still involved in criminality and those who are devoted to the political cause. The lines have been blurred in the cases of these murders. SF are trying to put clear blue water in between, but the Unionists jumped on a small part of Hamilton's remarks ignoring the crux. Typically hypocritical.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 14, 2015, 05:29:41 PM
DUP and Sinn Fein vote down Jim Allister's SPAD bill

Jim Allister is back with a SPAD bill (not that one) this piece of legislation would have placed a cap on pay and the number of SPADs that can be employed. Northern Ireland currently spends over £2 million per year on SPADs which is double the cost of Scotland and three times that of Wales.

A few months ago Jim Allister wrote for Slugger setting out his case for reform of the system.

Alas it appears that business as usual returned to the chamber today to defeat the bill. The DUP and Sinn Fein voted down Jim Allister's bill 52-33. The SDLP, Alliance and UUP backed the bill.


http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/10/13/dup-and-sinn-fein-vote-down-jim-allisters-spad-bill/


That's essentially party workers being paid up to 92k from public funds, and the 2 main parties vote against reducing their numbers - which are way above Scotland and Wales, despite NI being considerably smaller - and putting in place a salary cap of 78k (still pretty decent).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 05:58:50 PM
Pigs/snouts/trough.
Fianna Fail in the ha'penny place compared to those pair.
Has Mary Lou condemned it yet? :D :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on October 14, 2015, 06:44:27 PM
Do the appointees to these posts have experience in the relevant sector that qualifies them to give "special advice"???

If yes then hard argue with the pay rates.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 06:57:19 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 14, 2015, 06:44:27 PM
Do the appointees to these posts have experience in the relevant sector that qualifies them to give "special advice"???

Loyalty to Party would appear to be a very important qualification  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 14, 2015, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 14, 2015, 06:44:27 PM
Do the appointees to these posts have experience in the relevant sector that qualifies them to give "special advice"???

If yes then hard argue with the pay rates.
They're party workers, appointed by the parties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:53:17 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 14, 2015, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 14, 2015, 06:44:27 PM
Do the appointees to these posts have experience in the relevant sector that qualifies them to give "special advice"???

If yes then hard argue with the pay rates.
They're party workers, appointed by the parties.

In the case of SF, they're appointed by the Party after a recruitment process, where the post is advertised and the applicant applies laying out their relevant experience and qualifications.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on October 15, 2015, 01:09:10 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:53:17 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 14, 2015, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 14, 2015, 06:44:27 PM
Do the appointees to these posts have experience in the relevant sector that qualifies them to give "special advice"???

If yes then hard argue with the pay rates.
They're party workers, appointed by the parties.

In the case of SF, they're appointed by the Party after a recruitment process, where the post is advertised and the applicant applies laying out their relevant experience and qualifications.

Ulick,
    That's good to know, where do they advertise?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 01:25:56 PM
http://www.sinnfein.ie/vacancies
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on October 15, 2015, 01:55:03 PM
I would say the niece of Alex & Paul Maskey, who is a SPAD to John O'Dowd, didn't have too taxing a recruitment process.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 02:41:37 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 15, 2015, 01:55:03 PM
I would say the niece of Alex & Paul Maskey, who is a SPAD to John O'Dowd, didn't have too taxing a recruitment process.

I thought O'Dowd's SPAD was yer man from Derry who used to write for the Daily Ireland? The average industrial wage doesn't tend to attract high flyers. I'm on the SF mailing list and it's not uncommon for posts to be advertised repeatedly. There was one in Brussels recently which I think was being advertised for about 6 months. Those in SF who well educated, experienced and could do well elsewhere such as Grainne Maskey (MSc from UU) and Dara O'Hagan (PhD from QUB) tend to be from republican families see it more as a vocation. As such and given the lack of talent attracted by the AIW, SF can't afford to lose people like Maskey. IMO the AIW will probably have to go as it's close to proving more of an impediment than advantage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on October 15, 2015, 03:31:06 PM
If there is one thing the DUP and Sinn Fein agree on is the protection of their wages, expenses, and wage increases.

Money always comes 1st
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 03:39:04 PM
Lets face it, you wouldn't be happy even if they worked for nothing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 15, 2015, 08:02:15 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 03:39:04 PM
Lets face it, you wouldn't be happy even if they worked for nothing.
Do you think there are too many SPADs? Do you think SPADs should earn more than a Minister and twice the wage of an MLA?

This is not about working for nothing at all. I don't think an MLA's salary is at all excessive, given the hours most of them put in. The idea of doing it for the AIW... well there are easier ways to make money.

But there's genuine reason to question opposition to this bill.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 15, 2015, 08:04:12 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:53:17 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 14, 2015, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: ashman on October 14, 2015, 06:44:27 PM
Do the appointees to these posts have experience in the relevant sector that qualifies them to give "special advice"???

If yes then hard argue with the pay rates.
They're party workers, appointed by the parties.

In the case of SF, they're appointed by the Party after a recruitment process, where the post is advertised and the applicant applies laying out their relevant experience and qualifications.
I'd love to see the qualifications and experience required for a 90k salary.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on October 15, 2015, 11:50:11 PM
I thought being a special adviser was bringing particular ability and experience to a Minister.

They should not be openly recruited but head hunted because of what they can bring to achieving government policy in a particular sector. 

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 20, 2015, 07:18:09 PM
Mighty silence here at that Report thingy about Paramilitaries.
Are the usual suspects waiting for orders from the Army Council before they can comment? ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on October 20, 2015, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2015, 07:18:09 PM
Mighty silence here at that Report thingy about Paramilitaries.
Are the usual suspects waiting for orders from the Army Council before they can comment? ::)

So you want a statement from them to say they don't exist?

And who did the audit? PWC or Ernst and Young?

It's so easy to make whatever you like up, there is no way to refute it. At least Frances Fitzgerald's (and I still think she's a spoofing moron) department came up with a more balanced opinion.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1020/736260-garda-assessment-ira/

I'd love to hear her say that the legacy of the British Army in the north was "appalling".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: An Watcher on October 20, 2015, 09:56:11 PM
What a waste of time and money that report was. The only thing of note was the involvement of the army council which I am not so sure about. Did they have to put something in there to make it seem worthwhile.  Would love to know where they got this from
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 22, 2015, 09:57:21 AM
What the report said was that some members of the IRA believed that the Army Council had an overarching role, this has been grasped by the UUP as fact. I believe Willie Frazer is a fair (no pun meant) minded individual with a balanced view of the conflict in Ireland....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2015, 07:30:43 PM
The gaffe-prone Phil Flanagan strikes again...

Rodney Edwards ‏@rodneyedwards  Nov 19
Sinn Fein's @PhilFlanagan does not consider #ISIS "terrorists" and says term is used "by British establishment" to "demonise organisations."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on November 20, 2015, 08:40:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2015, 07:30:43 PM
The gaffe-prone Phil Flanagan strikes again...

Rodney Edwards ‏@rodneyedwards  Nov 19
Sinn Fein's @PhilFlanagan does not consider #ISIS "terrorists" and says term is used "by British establishment" to "demonise organisations."

He has obviously got brought into line as he now reckons thy are terrorists
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2015, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 20, 2015, 08:40:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2015, 07:30:43 PM
The gaffe-prone Phil Flanagan strikes again...

Rodney Edwards ‏@rodneyedwards  Nov 19
Sinn Fein's @PhilFlanagan does not consider #ISIS "terrorists" and says term is used "by British establishment" to "demonise organisations."

He has obviously got brought into line as he now reckons thy are terrorists

He says he meant IBEC.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 23, 2015, 09:28:18 AM
Phil is not gaffe prone he is an eejit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on December 17, 2015, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!

whats this got to do with the Shinners?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 17, 2015, 07:18:24 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on December 17, 2015, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!

whats this got to do with the Shinners?
Today FM began the news earlier: "Sinn Fein... eh IRA member... eh... Sinn Fein supporter Thomas Slab Murphy..."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 07:23:02 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 17, 2015, 07:18:24 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on December 17, 2015, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!

whats this got to do with the Shinners?
Today FM began the news earlier: "Sinn Fein... eh IRA member... eh... Sinn Fein supporter Thomas Slab Murphy..."

The correct term is Farmer.

Just shows how the media will use any term they want to try blacken someone's name.

There's plenty of ways to introduce Dinny - they should give that a go...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 07:25:51 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on December 17, 2015, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!

whats this got to do with the Shinners?

The little blueshirt turd is confused - he mustn't have consulted his superiors before making the remark.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on December 17, 2015, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!

whats this got to do with the Shinners?
Yeah right  ::) and of course Gerry Adams was never in the Provo IRA  ;)
32 years ago today Pte Patrick Kelly of Moate and Garda recruit Gary Sheehan of Carrickmacross were murdered near Ballinamore.
Nothing to do with SF of course ::)
Sure them lads and lasses are as pure as the driven snow.......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on December 17, 2015, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!

whats this got to do with the Shinners?
32 years ago today Pte Patrick Kelly of Moate and Garda recruit Gary Sheehan of Carrickmacross were murdered near Ballinamore.
Nothing to do with SF of course ::)


Provide your evidence. Look forward to it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 08:44:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!

Will he be locked up for this? Hopefully he will and get quite a while!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 09:02:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 08:44:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!

Will he be locked up for this? Hopefully he will and get quite a while!

If justice is consistent then he should get off with some community service like the boys got for creating the banking crisis.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 09:25:38 PM
Do you think he should be locked up,  Foxcommander?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 09:30:53 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 09:25:38 PM
Do you think he should be locked up,  Foxcommander?

For what - some administrative mix-up or something else? Michael Fingleton got to keep his 1 million bonus.
Let's start there and then work our way down if we're sending people to jail....

To me the vigour that the authorities have been chasing Mr Murphy would point at trying to settle some very old scores
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StephenC on December 17, 2015, 09:43:59 PM
He's a thieving sc**bag.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 17, 2015, 10:02:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 09:30:53 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 09:25:38 PM
Do you think he should be locked up,  Foxcommander?

For what - some administrative mix-up or something else? Michael Fingleton got to keep his 1 million bonus.
Let's start there and then work our way down if we're sending people to jail....

To me the vigour that the authorities have been chasing Mr Murphy would point at trying to settle some very old scores
Administrative mix-up?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 11:01:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 09:30:53 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 09:25:38 PM
Do you think he should be locked up,  Foxcommander?

For what - some administrative mix-up or something else? Michael Fingleton got to keep his 1 million bonus.
Let's start there and then work our way down if we're sending people to jail....

To me the vigour that the authorities have been chasing Mr Murphy would point at trying to settle some very old scores

For what he says?  Lol

Duh!!! Tax avoidance !!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 11:29:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 17, 2015, 10:02:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 09:30:53 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 09:25:38 PM
Do you think he should be locked up,  Foxcommander?

For what - some administrative mix-up
Administrative mix-up?

Joke of the Century there  ;D ;D
I've fcukn heard it all now!!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omaghjoe on December 17, 2015, 11:35:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 11:29:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 17, 2015, 10:02:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 09:30:53 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 09:25:38 PM
Do you think he should be locked up,  Foxcommander?

For what - some administrative mix-up
Administrative mix-up?

Joke of the Century there  ;D ;D
I've fcukn heard it all now!!!!

Found that confusing myself, sounds a bit like the defence that the Surrey Police once produced. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: FermGael on December 17, 2015, 11:41:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2015, 07:30:43 PM
The gaffe-prone Phil Flanagan strikes again...

Rodney Edwards ‏@rodneyedwards  Nov 19
Sinn Fein's @PhilFlanagan does not consider #ISIS "terrorists" and says term is used "by British establishment" to "demonise organisations."

Phil has failed to win the nomination to run in next year's assembly elections.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 11:42:33 PM
Avoiding tax is an administrative mix up????  Lol

Probably thinks murder is common assault!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on December 17, 2015, 11:46:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 17, 2015, 09:02:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 08:44:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Oul Slabeen found guilty of tax dodging today!!

Will hes be locked up for this? Hopefully he will and get quite a while!


If justice is consistent then he should get off with some community service like the boys got for creating the banking crisis.


Foxy

At the time of the year when we dish out awards at bun fights congrats on Whatabouter of the year .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 18, 2015, 07:14:50 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 17, 2015, 11:41:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2015, 07:30:43 PM
The gaffe-prone Phil Flanagan strikes again...

Rodney Edwards ‏@rodneyedwards  Nov 19
Sinn Fein's @PhilFlanagan does not consider #ISIS "terrorists" and says term is used "by British establishment" to "demonise organisations."

Phil has failed to win the nomination to run in next year's assembly elections.
Saw that. Unusual for a sitting politician not to be renominated, but he was weak and only won that last seat by a small margin in 2011, so it is one of SFs most vulnerable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on December 18, 2015, 08:18:35 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 17, 2015, 11:42:33 PM
Avoiding tax is an administrative mix up????  Lol

Probably thinks murder is common assault!
tax avoidance isn't illegal.  I take it you mean evasion  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 11:25:58 AM
I presume the oul €250k and £110k found in the shed was an "administrative error" too.
All them houses in Manchester?? Maybe they were for Bertie :D
And some say FF and SF wouldn't go into a Coalition together.!!
Will Gerry move to distance SF from slab.......or will the AC not allow him??
I think SF will lose another 2 or 3 potential seats here as more decent people will skip them on the ballot paper.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2015, 11:41:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 11:25:58 AM
I presume the oul €250k and £110k found in the shed was an "administrative error" too.
All them houses in Manchester?? Maybe they were for Bertie :D
And some say FF and SF wouldn't go into a Coalition together.!!
Will Gerry move to distance SF from slab.......or will the AC not allow him??
I think SF will lose another 2 or 3 potential seats here as more decent people will skip them on the ballot paper.

Wishful thinking on your part Ross.  This is not news - everyone knew what Slab was up to.  Everyone knows Gerry was in the'RA.  They will vote for them anyway.  Partly because of Nationalistic sympathies and partly because, well, the alternatives are also a shower of crooked cnuts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 18, 2015, 12:58:43 PM
The reason Slab got done for tax evasion was because they failed to pin anything else on him. There have been more people than Slab at that crack. No evidence that the Shinners had anything to do with it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
He's a Shinner hero( a "great Republican" per Gerry) and the old 2 sides of the same coin "Republican movement" etc etc.
"They" ( i.e lawful Government who represent us decent taxpaying non criminal people) couldn't pin anything else on him - we all know what would happen to anyone giving evidence don't we!!!???
Franko - the "Nationalistic sympathies" people in the 26 already vote SF ( except for the dissidents of course). But they need more than them if they want to go anywhere. Those of a left leaning view that could be tempted to vote for them ( mainly young who never heard of Slab) will be having a rethink when they hear that the "movement" is just as full of tax dodgers and crooks as the FFrs or FGrs could ever be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 18, 2015, 01:38:44 PM
Rossfan what position within Sinn Fein does Slab Murphy hold?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2015, 01:53:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
He's a Shinner hero( a "great Republican" per Gerry) and the old 2 sides of the same coin "Republican movement" etc etc.
"They" ( i.e lawful Government who represent us decent taxpaying non criminal people) couldn't pin anything else on him - we all know what would happen to anyone giving evidence don't we!!!???
Franko - the "Nationalistic sympathies" people in the 26 already vote SF ( except for the dissidents of course). But they need more than them if they want to go anywhere. Those of a left leaning view that could be tempted to vote for them ( mainly young who never heard of Slab) will be having a rethink when they hear that the "movement" is just as full of tax dodgers and crooks as the FFrs or FGrs could ever be.

So were you talking about SF losing seats or just 'not gaining' seats?  It's not clear from your post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 18, 2015, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 18, 2015, 01:38:44 PM
Rossfan what position within Sinn Fein does Slab Murphy hold?

If we believe the Guards and PSNI he is/was a member of the IRA AC and a former Chief of Staff - the same body which the same Guards/PSNI say exert control over Sinn Fein.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 02:45:10 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 18, 2015, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 18, 2015, 01:38:44 PM
Rossfan what position within Sinn Fein does Slab Murphy hold?

If we believe the Guards and PSNI he is/was a member of the IRA AC and a former Chief of Staff - the same body which the same Guards/PSNI say exert control over Sinn Fein.

Speculation. I don't ever recall him doing a press conference to announce his position as CEO.

Guards can say what they like. As we've seen from the Irish Water enforcement work they are not to be trusted by the people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 02:46:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 18, 2015, 01:38:44 PM
Rossfan what position within Sinn Fein does Slab Murphy hold?

Come on Rossfan - you've been spouting shite again....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 02:50:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 18, 2015, 12:58:43 PM
The reason Slab got done for tax evasion was because they failed to pin anything else on him. There have been more people than Slab at that crack. No evidence that the Shinners had anything to do with it.

As I said - this is payback time from the cops masquerading as a tax issue. They've wanted to jail him for years but couldn't get the evidence to do it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2015, 03:40:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 02:50:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 18, 2015, 12:58:43 PM
The reason Slab got done for tax evasion was because they failed to pin anything else on him. There have been more people than Slab at that crack. No evidence that the Shinners had anything to do with it.

As I said - this is payback time from the cops masquerading as a tax issue. They've wanted to jail him for years but couldn't get the evidence to do it.

In fairness fox, I've no doubt he's guilty.  I've also no doubt he was in the IRA.

Rossfan trying to connect it all to SF is a bit pathetic though.  SF are not the IRA.  This constant faux outrage towards SF for the actions of ex IRA members (who are now not connected to the party) is clearly to try to halt their rise in 26 Co. politics.  And it reeks of desperation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 04:03:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 03:40:29 PM
Rossfan trying to connect it all to SF is a bit pathetic though.  SF are not the IRA.  This constant faux outrage towards SF for the actions of ex IRA members (who are now not connected to the party) is clearly to try to halt their rise in 26 Co. politics.  And it reeks of desperation.
Jasus Franko will you come out of cloud cuckooland  :o
I'm afraid only the most gullible (or SF party members) believe that oul blather. ;D
As for confusing you earlier I said the loss of potential seats (not existing ones).
Happy Christmas and hope ye're not too disappointed with ye're 22/25 seats return in Feb 16.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 04:07:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 03:40:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 02:50:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 18, 2015, 12:58:43 PM
The reason Slab got done for tax evasion was because they failed to pin anything else on him. There have been more people than Slab at that crack. No evidence that the Shinners had anything to do with it.

As I said - this is payback time from the cops masquerading as a tax issue. They've wanted to jail him for years but couldn't get the evidence to do it.

In fairness fox, I've no doubt he's guilty.  I've also no doubt he was in the IRA.

Rossfan trying to connect it all to SF is a bit pathetic though.  SF are not the IRA.  This constant faux outrage towards SF for the actions of ex IRA members (who are now not connected to the party) is clearly to try to halt their rise in 26 Co. politics.  And it reeks of desperation.

I don't recognise the free state courts and their workings so any judgement they make is prejudiced, especially since the government vote in their own cronies to positions of power.

Mr Murphy certainly won't get a favourable outcome due to past speculation.

Rossfan is a pretty pathetic individual so I wouldn't be too worried what he's got to say. He's just squealing out he party line like a good little boy.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mikehunt on December 18, 2015, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 04:03:25 PM

Jasus Franko will you come out of cloud cuckooland  :o


ask him for a lift when he's on his way out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2015, 04:26:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 04:03:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 03:40:29 PM
Rossfan trying to connect it all to SF is a bit pathetic though.  SF are not the IRA.  This constant faux outrage towards SF for the actions of ex IRA members (who are now not connected to the party) is clearly to try to halt their rise in 26 Co. politics.  And it reeks of desperation.
Jasus Franko will you come out of cloud cuckooland  :o
I'm afraid only the most gullible (or SF party members) believe that oul blather. ;D
As for confusing you earlier I said the loss of potential seats (not existing ones).
Happy Christmas and hope ye're not too disappointed with ye're 22/25 seats return in Feb 16.

I neither have a vote nor particularly care what way the results go.  There are no parties in either of the jurisdictions on this island that provide any real representation (as a party - there are a few decent individuals, but party ties tend to hold them back from achieving more).

I just get a little nauseated by your inane attempts to claim some sort of victory when an old provo gets nailed for something everyone and his dog knew he was up to for years.  It's not going to make a blind bit of difference.  Pack away the party hats and streamers and save them for Christmas.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

Erm...which parties do you think were in power when the state got fckd up economically in the first place..

but they're OK to re-elect??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 18, 2015, 06:06:36 PM
The only problem I can see for SF here is that Gerry will be forced to either condemn Murphy or support him (he can't escape the questions with an election looming). Both options present difficulties. His previous statements on the matter don't help him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 18, 2015, 06:06:36 PM
The only problem I can see for SF here is that Gerry will be forced to either condemn Murphy or support him (he can't escape the questions with an election looming). Both options present difficulties. His previous statements on the matter don't help him.

I don't see why Thomas Murphy's affairs is something that needs to be brought into the political forum? Or does an elected official need to publicly comment on every politician/businessman/self-employed person's financial status?

Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 18, 2015, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 18, 2015, 06:06:36 PM
The only problem I can see for SF here is that Gerry will be forced to either condemn Murphy or support him (he can't escape the questions with an election looming). Both options present difficulties. His previous statements on the matter don't help him.

I don't see why Thomas Murphy's affairs is something that needs to be brought into the political forum? Or does an elected official need to publicly comment on every politician/businessman/self-employed person's financial status?

Ridiculous.
Yeah, only Adams has a history in being vocal in supporting this particular individual.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

If it takes this verdict to open the eyes of potential voters to the behaviour of Murphy then I'd venture they've been living in that 'cuckooland' you were discussing earlier.  This changes nothing, you'd just like it to because it makes you feel good.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on December 18, 2015, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 18, 2015, 06:06:36 PM
The only problem I can see for SF here is that Gerry will be forced to either condemn Murphy or support him (he can't escape the questions with an election looming). Both options present difficulties. His previous statements on the matter don't help him.

I don't see why Thomas Murphy's affairs is something that needs to be brought into the political forum? Or does an elected official need to publicly comment on every politician/businessman/self-employed person's financial status?

Ridiculous.

Right. So that'll be an end to your Denis O'Brien/Enda Kenny schtick then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on December 18, 2015, 07:53:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 18, 2015, 12:58:43 PM
The reason Slab got done for tax evasion was because they failed to pin anything else on him.

Worked with Al Capone  so it makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 07:54:49 PM
Quote from: Hardy on December 18, 2015, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 18, 2015, 06:06:36 PM
The only problem I can see for SF here is that Gerry will be forced to either condemn Murphy or support him (he can't escape the questions with an election looming). Both options present difficulties. His previous statements on the matter don't help him.

I don't see why Thomas Murphy's affairs is something that needs to be brought into the political forum? Or does an elected official need to publicly comment on every politician/businessman/self-employed person's financial status?

Ridiculous.

Right. So that'll be an end to your Denis O'Brien/Enda Kenny schtick then?

I've never heard Enda being asked consistently about Denis' affairs in the media. But if you'd like to start...
and Mr Murphy is pin money compared to what Dinny has been up to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on December 18, 2015, 08:01:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 07:54:49 PM
Quote from: Hardy on December 18, 2015, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 18, 2015, 06:06:36 PM
The only problem I can see for SF here is that Gerry will be forced to either condemn Murphy or support him (he can't escape the questions with an election looming). Both options present difficulties. His previous statements on the matter don't help him.

I don't see why Thomas Murphy's affairs is something that needs to be brought into the political forum? Or does an elected official need to publicly comment on every politician/businessman/self-employed person's financial status?

Ridiculous.

Right. So that'll be an end to your Denis O'Brien/Enda Kenny schtick then?

I've never heard Enda being asked consistently about Denis' affairs in the media. But if you'd like to start...
and Mr Murphy is pin money compared to what Dinny has been up to.

I understand. Four legs good, two legs bad. Except ...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 08:11:50 PM
Quote from: Hardy on December 18, 2015, 08:01:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 07:54:49 PM
Quote from: Hardy on December 18, 2015, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 18, 2015, 06:06:36 PM
The only problem I can see for SF here is that Gerry will be forced to either condemn Murphy or support him (he can't escape the questions with an election looming). Both options present difficulties. His previous statements on the matter don't help him.

I don't see why Thomas Murphy's affairs is something that needs to be brought into the political forum? Or does an elected official need to publicly comment on every politician/businessman/self-employed person's financial status?

Ridiculous.

Right. So that'll be an end to your Denis O'Brien/Enda Kenny schtick then?

I've never heard Enda being asked consistently about Denis' affairs in the media. But if you'd like to start...
and Mr Murphy is pin money compared to what Dinny has been up to.

I understand. Four legs good, two legs bad. Except ...

Except Dinny has been directly benefitting from the politicians awards for years.
How we'd all love 100 million euro write-offs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

If it takes this verdict to open the eyes of potential voters to the behaviour of Murphy then I'd venture they've been living in that 'cuckooland' you were discussing earlier.  This changes nothing, you'd just like it to because it makes you feel good.

Half the 18 to 35 year olds in the 26 Cos never heard of Slabeen or loads more of the heroes of 1969 to 98.
It always makes me as a taxpayer feel good when any tax dodger is found out.
And it's a bonus if it costs SF and helps prevent them from ruining the Economy.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
It always makes me as a taxpayer feel good when any tax dodger is found out.


An oldie but a goody. And this is your current minister for finance

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/fine-gaels-party-of-probity-image-is-tarnished-26086824.html

Now - How many of them went to jail?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2015, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

If it takes this verdict to open the eyes of potential voters to the behaviour of Murphy then I'd venture they've been living in that 'cuckooland' you were discussing earlier.  This changes nothing, you'd just like it to because it makes you feel good.

Half the 18 to 35 year olds in the 26 Cos never heard of Slabeen or loads more of the heroes of 1969 to 98.
It always makes me as a taxpayer feel good when any tax dodger is found out.
And it's a bonus if it costs SF and helps prevent them from ruining the Economy.

I'll tell you something, Slab Murphy is a man who was willing to dispense with 6 figure sums that he knew he'd never retrieve to support a cause that he believed would help his people. Maybe, it's ok for you, sitting in some bog dwelling shithole in Roscommon to pontificate about the actions of these men but I can guarantee you 100 years or so ago you had men acting in whatever political allegiance you pertain to, doing the exact same and you probably regard them as heroes (unless you're John Bruton).

What you don't understand is the occupied 6 was sold down the river by the free state, we were a marginalised community in a statelet created on sectarian grounds and what was done for us by anyone when gerrymandering and discrimination was openly advocated within that statelet? Nothing, that's what - and hearing sneary little fucks like you pontificate and moralise about what happened gets under my skin deeply.

War blurs lines and it makes ordinary people do extraordinary things, it also attracts the worst in society looking to fuel their needs - but what is more relevant is looking as the causal effects of the war and to that we have to point to two parties - the British Government and the Free State - they created the bloodshed but only wanted to wash their hands of what happened and deflect blame on to others. What was happening was wrong and why didn't the Free State do what was right and intervene?

So you go and moralise and pontificate all you want but it was people like you, with your attitude that played their role in the bloody conflict that unfolded.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 18, 2015, 11:16:42 PM
Such a pathetic attempt to justify tax evasion!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Disgraceful rant totally missing rhe point by an insulting eejit.
Not many of the Ros IRA ended up with with loads of assets..
Anyway the war was over since 1998 so why didn't the bould Mr Murphy pay taxes to the 26 Co State like the rest of us who live here from then?
He took all the farmer grants etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: orangeman on December 19, 2015, 12:00:41 AM
There will be an amnesty shortly. That will sort out / clean up a good few accounts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 19, 2015, 11:04:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
He's a Shinner hero( a "great Republican" per Gerry) and the old 2 sides of the same coin "Republican movement" etc etc.
"They" ( i.e lawful Government who represent us decent taxpaying non criminal people) couldn't pin anything else on him - we all know what would happen to anyone giving evidence don't we!!!???
Franko - the "Nationalistic sympathies" people in the 26 already vote SF ( except for the dissidents of course). But they need more than them if they want to go anywhere. Those of a left leaning view that could be tempted to vote for them ( mainly young who never heard of Slab) will be having a rethink when they hear that the "movement" is just as full of tax dodgers and crooks as the FFrs or FGrs could ever be.
From your posts Ross I'd swear you were Enda's election agent, try looking at the facts. Slab is no worse than some of the gombeens in Fine Gael and Fianna Fail. Only difference is he is about to pay the price.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 02:13:51 PM
Hopefully he will pay the price and not a slap on the wrists!

Criminal !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2015, 02:24:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 19, 2015, 11:04:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
He's a Shinner hero( a "great Republican" per Gerry) and the old 2 sides of the same coin "Republican movement" etc etc.
"They" ( i.e lawful Government who represent us decent taxpaying non criminal people) couldn't pin anything else on him - we all know what would happen to anyone giving evidence don't we!!!???
Franko - the "Nationalistic sympathies" people in the 26 already vote SF ( except for the dissidents of course). But they need more than them if they want to go anywhere. Those of a left leaning view that could be tempted to vote for them ( mainly young who never heard of Slab) will be having a rethink when they hear that the "movement" is just as full of tax dodgers and crooks as the FFrs or FGrs could ever be.
From your posts Ross I'd swear you were Enda's election agent, try looking at the facts. Slab is no worse than some of the gombeens in Fine Gael and Fianna Fail. Only difference is he is about to pay the price.
I can assure you I am not Enda's agent!!!  :o
This is the SC thread which is the right place to highlight the wrongdoing of one of their greats.
If you want to highlight wrongdoings of FFrs and FGrs by all means do so on the respective threads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on December 19, 2015, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 02:13:51 PM
Hopefully he will pay the price and not a slap on the wrists!

Criminal !

Hopefully chase u2 next then .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 19, 2015, 03:53:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 19, 2015, 02:24:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 19, 2015, 11:04:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
He's a Shinner hero( a "great Republican" per Gerry) and the old 2 sides of the same coin "Republican movement" etc etc.
"They" ( i.e lawful Government who represent us decent taxpaying non criminal people) couldn't pin anything else on him - we all know what would happen to anyone giving evidence don't we!!!???
Franko - the "Nationalistic sympathies" people in the 26 already vote SF ( except for the dissidents of course). But they need more than them if they want to go anywhere. Those of a left leaning view that could be tempted to vote for them ( mainly young who never heard of Slab) will be having a rethink when they hear that the "movement" is just as full of tax dodgers and crooks as the FFrs or FGrs could ever be.
From your posts Ross I'd swear you were Enda's election agent, try looking at the facts. Slab is no worse than some of the gombeens in Fine Gael and Fianna Fail. Only difference is he is about to pay the price.
I can assure you I am not Enda's agent!!!  :o
This is the SC thread which is the right place to highlight the wrongdoing of one of their greats.
If you want to highlight wrongdoings of FFrs and FGrs by all means do so on the respective threads.

And again...this little blueshirt is trying to say that Thomas Murphy is a member of Sinn Fein.

Anyone else want to point out his error to him. The thicko doesn't seem to get it however...not surprisingly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 19, 2015, 03:54:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Disgraceful rant totally missing rhe point by an insulting eejit.

er...I think you only need to consult your mirror to find the eejit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 19, 2015, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2015, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

If it takes this verdict to open the eyes of potential voters to the behaviour of Murphy then I'd venture they've been living in that 'cuckooland' you were discussing earlier.  This changes nothing, you'd just like it to because it makes you feel good.

Half the 18 to 35 year olds in the 26 Cos never heard of Slabeen or loads more of the heroes of 1969 to 98.
It always makes me as a taxpayer feel good when any tax dodger is found out.
And it's a bonus if it costs SF and helps prevent them from ruining the Economy.

I'll tell you something, Slab Murphy is a man who was willing to dispense with 6 figure sums that he knew he'd never retrieve to support a cause that he believed would help his people. Maybe, it's ok for you, sitting in some bog dwelling shithole in Roscommon to pontificate about the actions of these men but I can guarantee you 100 years or so ago you had men acting in whatever political allegiance you pertain to, doing the exact same and you probably regard them as heroes (unless you're John Bruton).

What you don't understand is the occupied 6 was sold down the river by the free state, we were a marginalised community in a statelet created on sectarian grounds and what was done for us by anyone when gerrymandering and discrimination was openly advocated within that statelet? Nothing, that's what - and hearing sneary little f**ks like you pontificate and moralise about what happened gets under my skin deeply.

War blurs lines and it makes ordinary people do extraordinary things, it also attracts the worst in society looking to fuel their needs - but what is more relevant is looking as the causal effects of the war and to that we have to point to two parties - the British Government and the Free State - they created the bloodshed but only wanted to wash their hands of what happened and deflect blame on to others. What was happening was wrong and why didn't the Free State do what was right and intervene?

So you go and moralise and pontificate all you want but it was people like you, with your attitude that played their role in the bloody conflict that unfolded.

Top post mate. Too many freestater apologists (the likes of Rossfanny) would have preferred that the people in the o6 sat on their hands and waited to be given equal rights.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on December 19, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
So it was all about "equal rights" ? You here that revisionist bullshit quite a lot now
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 19, 2015, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2015, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

If it takes this verdict to open the eyes of potential voters to the behaviour of Murphy then I'd venture they've been living in that 'cuckooland' you were discussing earlier.  This changes nothing, you'd just like it to because it makes you feel good.

Half the 18 to 35 year olds in the 26 Cos never heard of Slabeen or loads more of the heroes of 1969 to 98.
It always makes me as a taxpayer feel good when any tax dodger is found out.
And it's a bonus if it costs SF and helps prevent them from ruining the Economy.

I'll tell you something, Slab Murphy is a man who was willing to dispense with 6 figure sums that he knew he'd never retrieve to support a cause that he believed would help his people. Maybe, it's ok for you, sitting in some bog dwelling shithole in Roscommon to pontificate about the actions of these men but I can guarantee you 100 years or so ago you had men acting in whatever political allegiance you pertain to, doing the exact same and you probably regard them as heroes (unless you're John Bruton).

What you don't understand is the occupied 6 was sold down the river by the free state, we were a marginalised community in a statelet created on sectarian grounds and what was done for us by anyone when gerrymandering and discrimination was openly advocated within that statelet? Nothing, that's what - and hearing sneary little f**ks like you pontificate and moralise about what happened gets under my skin deeply.

War blurs lines and it makes ordinary people do extraordinary things, it also attracts the worst in society looking to fuel their needs - but what is more relevant is looking as the causal effects of the war and to that we have to point to two parties - the British Government and the Free State - they created the bloodshed but only wanted to wash their hands of what happened and deflect blame on to others. What was happening was wrong and why didn't the Free State do what was right and intervene?

So you go and moralise and pontificate all you want but it was people like you, with your attitude that played their role in the bloody conflict that unfolded.

Top post mate. Too many freestater apologists (the likes of Rossfanny) would have preferred that the people in the o6 sat on their hands and waited to be given equal rights.

You would nearly think you were speaking  on behalf of the northern nationalist! Fox commander. You certainly are not!

Rossfans view would be closer to the majority of the nationalists re IRA than yours. And thank God for that!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 19, 2015, 06:04:31 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 19, 2015, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2015, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

If it takes this verdict to open the eyes of potential voters to the behaviour of Murphy then I'd venture they've been living in that 'cuckooland' you were discussing earlier.  This changes nothing, you'd just like it to because it makes you feel good.

Half the 18 to 35 year olds in the 26 Cos never heard of Slabeen or loads more of the heroes of 1969 to 98.
It always makes me as a taxpayer feel good when any tax dodger is found out.
And it's a bonus if it costs SF and helps prevent them from ruining the Economy.

I'll tell you something, Slab Murphy is a man who was willing to dispense with 6 figure sums that he knew he'd never retrieve to support a cause that he believed would help his people. Maybe, it's ok for you, sitting in some bog dwelling shithole in Roscommon to pontificate about the actions of these men but I can guarantee you 100 years or so ago you had men acting in whatever political allegiance you pertain to, doing the exact same and you probably regard them as heroes (unless you're John Bruton).

What you don't understand is the occupied 6 was sold down the river by the free state, we were a marginalised community in a statelet created on sectarian grounds and what was done for us by anyone when gerrymandering and discrimination was openly advocated within that statelet? Nothing, that's what - and hearing sneary little f**ks like you pontificate and moralise about what happened gets under my skin deeply.

War blurs lines and it makes ordinary people do extraordinary things, it also attracts the worst in society looking to fuel their needs - but what is more relevant is looking as the causal effects of the war and to that we have to point to two parties - the British Government and the Free State - they created the bloodshed but only wanted to wash their hands of what happened and deflect blame on to others. What was happening was wrong and why didn't the Free State do what was right and intervene?

So you go and moralise and pontificate all you want but it was people like you, with your attitude that played their role in the bloody conflict that unfolded.

Top post mate. Too many freestater apologists (the likes of Rossfanny) would have preferred that the people in the o6 sat on their hands and waited to be given equal rights.

You would nearly think you were speaking  on behalf of the northern nationalist! Fox commander. You certainly are not!

Rossfans view would be closer to the majority of the nationalists re IRA than yours. And thank God for that!

Rossfan agrees with the likes of Kenny and John Bruton - they'd like to be british. I guess that sums you up if that's your view.
File you under "moderate nationalist" then. And I mean moderate.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 06:49:50 PM
Tell me what a 'moderate nationalist' is and I ll tell you if you should 'file' me there
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2015, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 19, 2015, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2015, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

If it takes this verdict to open the eyes of potential voters to the behaviour of Murphy then I'd venture they've been living in that 'cuckooland' you were discussing earlier.  This changes nothing, you'd just like it to because it makes you feel good.

Half the 18 to 35 year olds in the 26 Cos never heard of Slabeen or loads more of the heroes of 1969 to 98.
It always makes me as a taxpayer feel good when any tax dodger is found out.
And it's a bonus if it costs SF and helps prevent them from ruining the Economy.

I'll tell you something, Slab Murphy is a man who was willing to dispense with 6 figure sums that he knew he'd never retrieve to support a cause that he believed would help his people. Maybe, it's ok for you, sitting in some bog dwelling shithole in Roscommon to pontificate about the actions of these men but I can guarantee you 100 years or so ago you had men acting in whatever political allegiance you pertain to, doing the exact same and you probably regard them as heroes (unless you're John Bruton).

What you don't understand is the occupied 6 was sold down the river by the free state, we were a marginalised community in a statelet created on sectarian grounds and what was done for us by anyone when gerrymandering and discrimination was openly advocated within that statelet? Nothing, that's what - and hearing sneary little f**ks like you pontificate and moralise about what happened gets under my skin deeply.

War blurs lines and it makes ordinary people do extraordinary things, it also attracts the worst in society looking to fuel their needs - but what is more relevant is looking as the causal effects of the war and to that we have to point to two parties - the British Government and the Free State - they created the bloodshed but only wanted to wash their hands of what happened and deflect blame on to others. What was happening was wrong and why didn't the Free State do what was right and intervene?

So you go and moralise and pontificate all you want but it was people like you, with your attitude that played their role in the bloody conflict that unfolded.

Top post mate. Too many freestater apologists (the likes of Rossfanny) would have preferred that the people in the o6 sat on their hands and waited to be given equal rights.

You would nearly think you were speaking  on behalf of the northern nationalist! Fox commander. You certainly are not!

Rossfans view would be closer to the majority of the nationalists re IRA than yours. And thank God for that!

Really?

Amazing how Sinn Fein have an overwhelming majority support from the nationalist community in the O6, doesn't quite transcribe with your views on the nationalist view of the RA when a high proportion of elected nationalist politicians are former RA members.

Out of curiosity, are you a Stoop?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2015, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Disgraceful rant totally missing rhe point by an insulting eejit.
Not many of the Ros IRA ended up with with loads of assets..
Anyway the war was over since 1998 so why didn't the bould Mr Murphy pay taxes to the 26 Co State like the rest of us who live here from then?
He took all the farmer grants etc.

Really?

Didn't DeValera have a media empire by the time he died? Are you completely oblivious or ignorant to the corrupt nature of the 26 county state which Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have pretty much governed since its inception? Who do you vote for?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 08:35:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2015, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 19, 2015, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2015, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

If it takes this verdict to open the eyes of potential voters to the behaviour of Murphy then I'd venture they've been living in that 'cuckooland' you were discussing earlier.  This changes nothing, you'd just like it to because it makes you feel good.

Half the 18 to 35 year olds in the 26 Cos never heard of Slabeen or loads more of the heroes of 1969 to 98.
It always makes me as a taxpayer feel good when any tax dodger is found out.
And it's a bonus if it costs SF and helps prevent them from ruining the Economy.

I'll tell you something, Slab Murphy is a man who was willing to dispense with 6 figure sums that he knew he'd never retrieve to support a cause that he believed would help his people. Maybe, it's ok for you, sitting in some bog dwelling shithole in Roscommon to pontificate about the actions of these men but I can guarantee you 100 years or so ago you had men acting in whatever political allegiance you pertain to, doing the exact same and you probably regard them as heroes (unless you're John Bruton).

What you don't understand is the occupied 6 was sold down the river by the free state, we were a marginalised community in a statelet created on sectarian grounds and what was done for us by anyone when gerrymandering and discrimination was openly advocated within that statelet? Nothing, that's what - and hearing sneary little f**ks like you pontificate and moralise about what happened gets under my skin deeply.

War blurs lines and it makes ordinary people do extraordinary things, it also attracts the worst in society looking to fuel their needs - but what is more relevant is looking as the causal effects of the war and to that we have to point to two parties - the British Government and the Free State - they created the bloodshed but only wanted to wash their hands of what happened and deflect blame on to others. What was happening was wrong and why didn't the Free State do what was right and intervene?

So you go and moralise and pontificate all you want but it was people like you, with your attitude that played their role in the bloody conflict that unfolded.

Top post mate. Too many freestater apologists (the likes of Rossfanny) would have preferred that the people in the o6 sat on their hands and waited to be given equal rights.

You would nearly think you were speaking  on behalf of the northern nationalist! Fox commander. You certainly are not!

Rossfans view would be closer to the majority of the nationalists re IRA than yours. And thank God for that!

Really?

Amazing how Sinn Fein have an overwhelming majority support from the nationalist community in the O6, doesn't quite transcribe with your views on the nationalist view of the RA when a high proportion of elected nationalist politicians are former RA members.

Out of curiosity, are you a Stoop?

Sinn Fein have  the majority nationalist support ever since the IRA abandoned their campaign
some SDLP supporters moved to them after they entered the democratic process. However during the IRA campaign the majority of nationalists voted for SDLP who were opposed to the Provos. Those former SDLP supporters who now vote Sinn Fein were totally anti IRA   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2015, 09:01:54 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 08:35:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2015, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 19, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 19, 2015, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 18, 2015, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
He could have given up his old ways when the War ended in 1998. ;)
Every time an "old Provo" is nailed will open a lot of potential SF voters' eyes to the nature of the beast.
The less seats they get the better the chance of saving the State being fcukd up economically again.
I have to think of the children's future not getting more funds for "Community Workers".

If it takes this verdict to open the eyes of potential voters to the behaviour of Murphy then I'd venture they've been living in that 'cuckooland' you were discussing earlier.  This changes nothing, you'd just like it to because it makes you feel good.

Half the 18 to 35 year olds in the 26 Cos never heard of Slabeen or loads more of the heroes of 1969 to 98.
It always makes me as a taxpayer feel good when any tax dodger is found out.
And it's a bonus if it costs SF and helps prevent them from ruining the Economy.

I'll tell you something, Slab Murphy is a man who was willing to dispense with 6 figure sums that he knew he'd never retrieve to support a cause that he believed would help his people. Maybe, it's ok for you, sitting in some bog dwelling shithole in Roscommon to pontificate about the actions of these men but I can guarantee you 100 years or so ago you had men acting in whatever political allegiance you pertain to, doing the exact same and you probably regard them as heroes (unless you're John Bruton).

What you don't understand is the occupied 6 was sold down the river by the free state, we were a marginalised community in a statelet created on sectarian grounds and what was done for us by anyone when gerrymandering and discrimination was openly advocated within that statelet? Nothing, that's what - and hearing sneary little f**ks like you pontificate and moralise about what happened gets under my skin deeply.

War blurs lines and it makes ordinary people do extraordinary things, it also attracts the worst in society looking to fuel their needs - but what is more relevant is looking as the causal effects of the war and to that we have to point to two parties - the British Government and the Free State - they created the bloodshed but only wanted to wash their hands of what happened and deflect blame on to others. What was happening was wrong and why didn't the Free State do what was right and intervene?

So you go and moralise and pontificate all you want but it was people like you, with your attitude that played their role in the bloody conflict that unfolded.

Top post mate. Too many freestater apologists (the likes of Rossfanny) would have preferred that the people in the o6 sat on their hands and waited to be given equal rights.

You would nearly think you were speaking  on behalf of the northern nationalist! Fox commander. You certainly are not!

Rossfans view would be closer to the majority of the nationalists re IRA than yours. And thank God for that!

Really?

Amazing how Sinn Fein have an overwhelming majority support from the nationalist community in the O6, doesn't quite transcribe with your views on the nationalist view of the RA when a high proportion of elected nationalist politicians are former RA members.

Out of curiosity, are you a Stoop?

Sinn Fein have  the majority nationalist support ever since the IRA abandoned their campaign
some SDLP supporters moved to them after they entered the democratic process. However during the IRA campaign the majority of nationalists voted for SDLP who were opposed to the Provos. Those former SDLP supporters who now vote Sinn Fein were totally anti IRA

And that was mainly because Sinn Fein played a subservient role to the IRA right up until the late 80s and early 90s.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2015, 09:42:00 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2015, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Disgraceful rant totally missing rhe point by an insulting eejit.
Not many of the Ros IRA ended up with with loads of assets..
Anyway the war was over since 1998 so why didn't the bould Mr Murphy pay taxes to the 26 Co State like the rest of us who live here from then?
He took all the farmer grants etc.

Really?

Didn't DeValera have a media empire by the time he died? Are you completely oblivious or ignorant to the corrupt nature of the 26 county state which Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have pretty much governed since its inception? Who do you vote for?
What's DeValera got to do with a leading SF fellow traveller dodging his legitimate taxes?
Sure Daniel O'Connell owned half of Kerry and Wolfe Tone was from a very wealthy family. Lord Edward owned half of Leinster.
As for corruption - is that the kind of thing Tax dodger and barber dodger Wallace was talking about in the Dàil when he referred to £7m being lodged in the I of Man for a Politician???
Who I vote for is none of your business,.... But you may take it I don't vote SF.
Gerry issued a pro Slab statement today I hear which no doubt will strengthen his position with his constituency.
However the decent people he needs to win over will not be impressed.
Micky Martin has a letter in the paper today saying FF won't enter a Coalition with the Slablovers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 19, 2015, 09:53:18 PM
Gerry reckons that Slab was hard done by because he was done in the Special Criminal court rather than a usual jury one. 
Hardly surprising, I would not wish to be on a jury in Slab's case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 19, 2015, 10:07:45 PM
Murphy got done for tax evasion and rightly so, how some pricks on here can defend him is laughable, they cut out all the diesel laundering and underhand dealings running along the border do everyone a big favour, Murphy Wasn't  and never was anybody`s hero!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2015, 11:31:02 PM
Two sensible posters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on December 19, 2015, 11:34:16 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 19, 2015, 10:07:45 PM
Murphy got done for tax evasion and rightly so, how some pricks on here can defend him is laughable, they cut out all the diesel laundering and underhand dealings running along the border do everyone a big favour, Murphy Wasn't  and never was anybody`s hero!!
The Shinner types online and their public reps have blindly defended far worse than that. Not so much a party as a cult.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 12:23:12 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 19, 2015, 09:42:00 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 19, 2015, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Disgraceful rant totally missing rhe point by an insulting eejit.
Not many of the Ros IRA ended up with with loads of assets..
Anyway the war was over since 1998 so why didn't the bould Mr Murphy pay taxes to the 26 Co State like the rest of us who live here from then?
He took all the farmer grants etc.

Really?

Didn't DeValera have a media empire by the time he died? Are you completely oblivious or ignorant to the corrupt nature of the 26 county state which Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have pretty much governed since its inception? Who do you vote for?
What's DeValera got to do with a leading SF fellow traveller dodging his legitimate taxes?
Sure Daniel O'Connell owned half of Kerry and Wolfe Tone was from a very wealthy family. Lord Edward owned half of Leinster.
As for corruption - is that the kind of thing Tax dodger and barber dodger Wallace was talking about in the Dàil when he referred to £7m being lodged in the I of Man for a Politician???
Who I vote for is none of your business,.... But you may take it I don't vote SF.
Gerry issued a pro Slab statement today I hear which no doubt will strengthen his position with his constituency.
However the decent people he needs to win over will not be impressed.
Micky Martin has a letter in the paper today saying FF won't enter a Coalition with the Slablovers.

You were talking about members of the IRA ending up with loads of assets. DeValera was a member of the IRA, he ended up with a media empire? How can you fail to see the irony.

Guys like you have a f**king gaul to comment on the situation in the occupied six. It's easy to moralise and pontificate when you do so from the warmth of your safe haven, but a lot of these guys were ordinary men doing extraordinary things for what they believed would better the lives of their friends, family and communities who were a marginalised and discriminated section of society, that is the context of the North at that time.

People can say what they want about Slab Murphy, maybe he is a criminal, a thug or a tax evader but he also made sacrifices out of his own pocket and ease of life in order to help a discriminated community. It's the brazen hypocrisy from braindead idiots like you who will probably champion some ignorant blueshirt who is ripping the state of for about 200k, breaking promises he made and paying scant lip service to the government's attacks on decent working people while taking their extortionate salaries back home without the smallest sense of guilt.

I have respect for guys who were willing to lay down their lives, makes sacrifices which could include a life on the run, in prison or dead because they believed it was the right thing to do in order to achieve a just society for their people. They may have done bad things, but it was a blurred time and their conviction was it was a just thing to do.

Do you think guys like Haughey, Aherne, Cowan, Kenny or anyone else from the establishment parties ever made personal sacrifices for what they believed would benefit their people or country? Could you ever imagine any of them willing to put their lives at risk in order to change an unjust society for the better?

Would they f**k, all they are interested in making as much money as they can and they couldn't give a damn about who they screw over in order to build that empire.

A spell under the Brits might do some of ye no harm in changing your mindset and knock the moralising and hypocrisy out of ye.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2015, 12:43:31 AM
You're missing the point entirely.
The war ended in 1998 with the people voting to accept the GFA.
Since then the Sinners/Provos have taken part in legitimate politics while maintaining a criminal empire.
Eejits like you can't see that such carry on is not on - esp if ye wish to be part of Government in the  now totally legitimised 26 Co State.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
How did slab make sacrifices out of his own pocket?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2015, 12:54:33 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
How did slab make sacrifices out of his own pocket?
The sacrifices seemed to end up IN his pocket.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:56:37 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 20, 2015, 12:54:33 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
How did slab make sacrifices out of his own pocket?
The sacrifices seemed to end up IN his pocket.

Yes. Waiting on the bomber boy to clarify!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:03:12 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
How did slab make sacrifices out of his own pocket?

He financed most of the South Armagh brigade's operations when NORAID was effectively finished in the states.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:04:57 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 20, 2015, 12:43:31 AM
You're missing the point entirely.
The war ended in 1998 with the people voting to accept the GFA.
Since then the Sinners/Provos have taken part in legitimate politics while maintaining a criminal empire.
Eejits like you can't see that such carry on is not on - esp if ye wish to be part of Government in the  now totally legitimised 26 Co State.

I'm not the one with the hypocrisy here, quite easy to see the way you're buttered though. You seem to be vehemently anti-SF? Why is that and how do your square if off with what seemingly is an acceptances of the establishment parties in the free state?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2015, 01:12:11 AM
Because SF are
1 economically illiterate
2- still wedded to illegality while trying to say they are a normal political party
-
As for the "establishment parties of the free state" - they are establishment because the voters vote for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 20, 2015, 01:15:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 20, 2015, 01:12:11 AM
Because SF are
1 economically illiterate
2- still wedded to illegality while trying to say they are a normal political party
-
As for the "establishment parties of the free state" - they are establishment because the voters vote for them.

The same parties that continually sell their citizens down the river..because they are established is why people vote for them - vicious circle.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:21:38 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 20, 2015, 01:12:11 AM
Because SF are
1 economically illiterate
2- still wedded to illegality while trying to say they are a normal political party
-
As for the "establishment parties of the free state" - they are establishment because the voters vote for them.

Economically illiterate?

Remind us which party was at the wheel when the country went into recession?

Welded to illegality? It's amazing the grasp of control Denis O'Brien operates in the free state and how untouchable he is, guys like you seem to accept white collar crime and doff your cap to it. You're a hypocrite but too stupid to realise it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 20, 2015, 01:33:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 19, 2015, 09:42:00 PM
Micky Martin has a letter in the paper today saying FF won't enter a Coalition

Reminds me of the TV show "The Word". He'll do anything to get into government. Even get into bed with Enda.
These are the opportunists that just want a little power and a lot of money. And you eejits fall for it every time and vote them in.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:36:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 20, 2015, 01:33:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 19, 2015, 09:42:00 PM
Micky Martin has a letter in the paper today saying FF won't enter a Coalition

Reminds me of the TV show "The Word". He'll do anything to get into government. Even get into bed with Enda.
These are the opportunists that just want a little power and a lot of money. And you eejits fall for it every time and vote them in.

Hypocrite and quislings - without even the remotest bit of intelligence to ever have the penny drop with them despite how clearly the matter is spelled out for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2015, 01:44:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:36:46 AM
Hypocrite and quislings - without even the remotest bit of intelligence to ever have the penny drop with them despite how clearly the matter is spelled out for them.

Why don't you spell it out, so that we can all understand.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:54:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2015, 01:44:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:36:46 AM
Hypocrite and quislings - without even the remotest bit of intelligence to ever have the penny drop with them despite how clearly the matter is spelled out for them.

Why don't you spell it out, so that we can all understand.

I have spelled it out.

He is happy to oppose Sinn Fein, vehemently, for what he calls supporting criminality - but who does he vote for?

Parties that allow a white collar criminal like Denis O'Brien to elevate himself into the puppet master of the free state, consistently vote in corrupt politicians who are self-serving and happy to screw the working class man, lie, break promises and screw the ordinary working man without  remorse as they take home huge salaries.

He is a hypocrite and an extremely stupid one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2015, 02:33:38 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:54:36 AM
He is happy to oppose Sinn Fein, vehemently, for what he calls supporting criminality - but who does he vote for?

Parties that allow a white collar criminal like Denis O'Brien to elevate himself into the puppet master of the free state, consistently vote in corrupt politicians who are self-serving and happy to screw the working class man, lie, break promises and screw the ordinary working man without  remorse as they take home huge salaries.

He is a hypocrite and an extremely stupid one.

Which laws did Denis O'Brien break? I accept that politicians are self serving, but Sinn Fein are no different in that respect, as episodes like O'Snodaigh's printers and the fiddling of NI MLA expenses showed. They are complete hypocrites, ranting about homelessness while voting to reduce the property tax in Dublin and elsewhere that might have provided some funds to do something about it. Elections in Ireland, like many other places, become a choice between self serving politicians who have some sensible policies and self serving politicians that have outright dangerous policies in many cases.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 02:47:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2015, 02:33:38 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:54:36 AM
He is happy to oppose Sinn Fein, vehemently, for what he calls supporting criminality - but who does he vote for?

Parties that allow a white collar criminal like Denis O'Brien to elevate himself into the puppet master of the free state, consistently vote in corrupt politicians who are self-serving and happy to screw the working class man, lie, break promises and screw the ordinary working man without  remorse as they take home huge salaries.

He is a hypocrite and an extremely stupid one.

Which laws did Denis O'Brien break? I accept that politicians are self serving, but Sinn Fein are no different in that respect, as episodes like O'Snodaigh's printers and the fiddling of NI MLA expenses showed. They are complete hypocrites, ranting about homelessness while voting to reduce the property tax in Dublin and elsewhere that might have provided some funds to do something about it. Elections in Ireland, like many other places, become a choice between self serving politicians who have some sensible policies and self serving politicians that have outright dangerous policies in many cases.

Are you really that naive regarding Denis O'Brien? Do you really believe all those corruption allegations of a man who has amassed a huge fortune are without foundation? Seemingly you're willing to believe the allegations against Slab Murphy - so if it's good for the goose........

I don't think Sinn Fein are above reproach, there are certain elements I don't like about their policies and actions and there are no doubt elements of hypocrisy but it pales in significance to the other establishment parties of the 26. For one there's the fact that they only take home the average industrial wages which is about 4 times less that what the establishment parties receive - who conveniently don't want to change the pay structures for TDs. There's also the fact that many Sinn Fein members were involved in the troubles, made sacrifices for what they believed would better their people and community, whatever about the rights of wrongs of their actions - they showed a conviction of doing something they felt was for their right that was not self-serving. Could you imagine any of the establishment party doing the same? We know what happened Neil Blaney, the last politician with a bit of backbone from the establishment parties in the 26. It's easy for these people to pontificate about what happened in the troubles? Do you think crass imbeciles like Enda Kenny would have the same outlook had he grown up in the Creggan?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2015, 03:41:36 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 02:47:04 AM
Are you really that naive regarding Denis O'Brien? Do you really believe all those corruption allegations of a man who has amassed a huge fortune are without foundation? Seemingly you're willing to believe the allegations against Slab Murphy - so if it's good for the goose........

I don't know of any particular thing Denis O'Brien has done which is illegal. Bill Gates has a huge fortune and I don't think him corrupt.

QuoteI don't think Sinn Fein are above reproach, there are certain elements I don't like about their policies and actions and there are no doubt elements of hypocrisy but it pales in significance to the other establishment parties of the 26. For one there's the fact that they only take home the average industrial wages which is about 4 times less that what the establishment parties receive - who conveniently don't want to change the pay structures for TDs. There's also the fact that many Sinn Fein members were involved in the troubles, made sacrifices for what they believed would better their people and community, whatever about the rights of wrongs of their actions - they showed a conviction of doing something they felt was for their right that was not self-serving. Could you imagine any of the establishment party doing the same? We know what happened Neil Blaney, the last politician with a bit of backbone from the establishment parties in the 26. It's easy for these people to pontificate about what happened in the troubles? Do you think crass imbeciles like Enda Kenny would have the same outlook had he grown up in the Creggan?

They collect the full wage and give some of it to the party, i.e. they act in their private interest not the public one. Some other politicians might give the money to their family and think this a good thing, but that is their interest and not the public one. Enda Kenny might have a different view had he been born in Derry, but John Hume showed that the different view is not necessarily the Sinn Fein view.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 08:07:58 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:03:12 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
How did slab make sacrifices out of his own pocket?

He financed most of the South Armagh brigade's operations when NORAID was effectively finished in the states.

  He paid for guns and bombs that were used to kill/ maim people  in South Armagh? 

And NORAID did so beforehand?

Is that what you are saying?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2015, 08:19:23 AM
It seems that Slab will now get a €5m tax bill, I hope he kept receipts for any expenditure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 09:11:50 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 08:07:58 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:03:12 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
How did slab make sacrifices out of his own pocket?

He financed most of the South Armagh brigade's operations when NORAID was effectively finished in the states.

  He paid for guns and bombs that were used to kill/ maim people  in South Armagh? 

And NORAID did so beforehand?

Is that what you are saying?

Yes, he paid for guns and bombs - what do you think brought freedom for the 26 - happy clapping and the rosary? The Irish cause for independence is synonymous with guns and violence but the portrayal is very different depending on the ear.

If anything the Provos had more of a reasoning in their armed struggle than the IRA than preceded it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 09:54:28 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2015, 03:41:36 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 02:47:04 AM
Are you really that naive regarding Denis O'Brien? Do you really believe all those corruption allegations of a man who has amassed a huge fortune are without foundation? Seemingly you're willing to believe the allegations against Slab Murphy - so if it's good for the goose........

I don't know of any particular thing Denis O'Brien has done which is illegal. Bill Gates has a huge fortune and I don't think him corrupt.

QuoteI don't think Sinn Fein are above reproach, there are certain elements I don't like about their policies and actions and there are no doubt elements of hypocrisy but it pales in significance to the other establishment parties of the 26. For one there's the fact that they only take home the average industrial wages which is about 4 times less that what the establishment parties receive - who conveniently don't want to change the pay structures for TDs. There's also the fact that many Sinn Fein members were involved in the troubles, made sacrifices for what they believed would better their people and community, whatever about the rights of wrongs of their actions - they showed a conviction of doing something they felt was for their right that was not self-serving. Could you imagine any of the establishment party doing the same? We know what happened Neil Blaney, the last politician with a bit of backbone from the establishment parties in the 26. It's easy for these people to pontificate about what happened in the troubles? Do you think crass imbeciles like Enda Kenny would have the same outlook had he grown up in the Creggan?

They collect the full wage and give some of it to the party, i.e. they act in their private interest not the public one. Some other politicians might give the money to their family and think this a good thing, but that is their interest and not the public one. Enda Kenny might have a different view had he been born in Derry, but John Hume showed that the different view is not necessarily the Sinn Fein view.

(http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/posters/election/poster37.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2015, 10:17:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2015, 08:19:23 AM
It seems that Slab will now get a €5m tax bill, I hope he kept receipts for any expenditure.
;D
Did " P O' Neill" give receipts ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 10:32:48 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 09:11:50 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 08:07:58 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:03:12 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
How did slab make sacrifices out of his own pocket?

He financed most of the South Armagh brigade's operations when NORAID was effectively finished in the states.

  He paid for guns and bombs that were used to kill/ maim people  in South Armagh? 

And NORAID did so beforehand?

Is that what you are saying?

Yes, he paid for guns and bombs - what do you think brought freedom for the 26 - happy clapping and the rosary? The Irish cause for independence is synonymous with guns and violence but the portrayal is very different depending on the ear.

If anything the Provos had more of a reasoning in their armed struggle than the IRA than preceded it.

You have now said that he is responsible for multiple deaths and injuries along with mass destruction of property!

So I wonder how many people deaths he funded? You seem to know a lot about him!

Could you break down the deaths he funded into combatants and non combatants?

Was the money he used to finance death and injury  money  he should have paid in taxes ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 10:54:28 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 10:32:48 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 09:11:50 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 08:07:58 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:03:12 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
How did slab make sacrifices out of his own pocket?

He financed most of the South Armagh brigade's operations when NORAID was effectively finished in the states.

  He paid for guns and bombs that were used to kill/ maim people  in South Armagh? 

And NORAID did so beforehand?

Is that what you are saying?

Yes, he paid for guns and bombs - what do you think brought freedom for the 26 - happy clapping and the rosary? The Irish cause for independence is synonymous with guns and violence but the portrayal is very different depending on the ear.

If anything the Provos had more of a reasoning in their armed struggle than the IRA than preceded it.

You have now said that he is responsible for multiple deaths and injuries along with mass destruction of property!

So I wonder how many people deaths he funded? You seem to know a lot about him!

Could you break down the deaths he funded into combatants and non combatants?

Was the money he used to finance death and injury  money  he should have paid in taxes ?

Ironic that the guy in your avatar openly canvasses for an alleged member of the same organisation as Slab. Maybe you'd prefer if we peacefully continued to be ethnically cleansed?

To make an omelette you have to break a few eggs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 10:58:26 AM
I know nothing about canavans politics.

Now perhaps you'd like to answer the questions I posed or maybe rethink what you have stated about Slab re financing guns and bombs and remove the post!

Serious serious statement you made there buddy !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 11:07:28 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 10:58:26 AM
I know nothing about canavans politics.

Now perhaps you'd like to answer the questions I posed or maybe rethink what you have stated about Slab re financing guns and bombs and remove the post!

Serious serious statement you made there buddy !

The allegations of Slab financing the South Armagh brigade operations are there in published books, I don't need to recant them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:14:31 AM
Up to yourself but I would keep my identity hidden to everyone if I were you.

You stated what you said as fact not an allegation.

What are the titles of these books which ALLEGE (not state) that he financed guns and bombs?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 11:18:25 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:14:31 AM
Up to yourself but I would keep my identity hidden to everyone if I were you.

You stated what you said as fact not an allegation.

What are the titles of these books which ALLEGE (not state) that he financed guns and bombs?

Guns and bombs are your words.

Tim Pat Coogan stated it in his book The IRA, it wasn't an allegation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 11:20:11 AM
As did Ed Moloney in his book "A Secret Histoy of the IRA".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:25:36 AM
Oh no

I asked you did he pay for guns and bombs and you said yes

And you said that 'allegations' were in published books. Check over your posts !

You need to be careful what you state. The laws of the land apply to online discussions boards as well.

Pull those posts mate and do yourself a favour!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:25:36 AM
Oh no

I asked you did he pay for guns and bombs and you said yes

And you said that 'allegations' were in published books. Check over your posts !

You need to be careful what you state. The laws of the land apply to online discussions boards as well.

Pull those posts mate and do yourself a favour!

As I said, guns and boms are your words, not mine. Just because you made a complete f**king idiot of yourself doesn't mean I'll do you a favour and pull those posts down. In fact these are the exact words from Ed Moloney's "A Secret History of The IRA".

"There was another, even more compelling reason for the IRA' failures. By 1996 the organization was broke and owed money everywhere, not least to Slab Murphy, who had lent the IRA some of the proceeds from his cross-Border business operations and had not been repaid."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:32:54 AM
You didn't read over your posts obviously and you sitting somewhere in Tyrone in a bad temper lol

Leave them there then.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 11:37:48 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:32:54 AM
You didn't read over your posts obviously and you sitting somewhere in Tyrone in a bad temper lol

Leave them there then.

You brought guns and bombs into it, not me. I said he financed the activities which is taken from a statement from a book which was fairly certain in it's context. The IRA were a paramilitary organisation, they weren't taking donations to send the boys off for a weekend away in a spa resort.

People can view Slab how they like, I just happen to think whatever you think of him, he's not in the same boat of the self-serving sc**bag politicians that populate the free state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:44:08 AM
I asked you did he pay for guns and bombs? Nothing wrong with that.

You said yes. You are making the statement that he paid for them!

"Fairly certain in its context ". Not actual proven fact then.

Lad, you are all over the place here. Lol

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 11:50:18 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:44:08 AM
I asked you did he pay for guns and bombs? Nothing wrong with that.

You said yes. You are making the statement that he paid for them!

"Fairly certain in its context ". Not actual proven fact then.

Lad, you are all over the place here. Lol

You said it was  allegation that I was making and not a statement and I should remove the post as a result. As I have shown, it's not an allegation I made, it was something stated in a published book which I have repeated.

The IRA were a paramilitary organisation, what do you think he was financing, brigade bonding sessions or fancy new uniforms?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:54:53 AM
you stated it as a fact mate!!!  I leave that with you !

So everything written in a book is fact then?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 12:05:29 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:54:53 AM
you stated it as a fact mate!!!  I leave that with you !

So everything written in a book is fact then?

I don't recall stating anything as a fact, I have just repeated what is there in print. You were the one who was hysterically claiming I was making unfounded allegations.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:09:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 09:11:50 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 08:07:58 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 01:03:12 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
How did slab make sacrifices out of his own pocket?

He financed most of the South Armagh brigade's operations when NORAID was effectively finished in the states.

  He paid for guns and bombs that were used to kill/ maim people  in South Armagh? 

And NORAID did so beforehand?

Is that what you are saying?

Yes, he paid for guns and bombs - what do you think brought freedom for the 26 - happy clapping and the rosary? The Irish cause for independence is synonymous with guns and violence but the portrayal is very different depending on the ear.

If anything the Provos had more of a reasoning in their armed struggle than the IRA than preceded it.

There you go! Read above!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2015, 03:45:34 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 20, 2015, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2015, 11:25:36 AM
Oh no

I asked you did he pay for guns and bombs and you said yes

And you said that 'allegations' were in published books. Check over your posts !

You need to be careful what you state. The laws of the land apply to online discussions boards as well.

Pull those posts mate and do yourself a favour!

As I said, guns and boms are your words, not mine. Just because you made a complete f**king idiot of yourself doesn't mean I'll do you a favour and pull those posts down. In fact these are the exact words from Ed Moloney's "A Secret History of The IRA".

"There was another, even more compelling reason for the IRA' failures. By 1996 the organization was broke and owed money everywhere, not least to Slab Murphy, who had lent the IRA some of the proceeds from his cross-Border business operations and had not been repaid."
Cross border business operations ;D :) ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: DuffleKing on December 20, 2015, 04:48:06 PM
Slab is the tip of a pyramid of criminal activity, collective and individual greed that has its Genesis in "the struggle" and remains a blight on communities around the border area. From the moment give peace a chance became a viable mantra, the race to get a slice of the pie became the raison d'etre of the Republican movement. Distributing cash, selling on weapons, auctioning land, etc. The top men had to be comforted to ensure they'd carry the ceasefire message with feeling.

The initial hierarchy of equals carve up created dissident groups and the cloak of funding the war has empowered anti social and criminal elements to continue and expand smuggling, theft and the permeation of drugs into the lives of young people ever since. Communities turn a blind eye now to all of these activities as those directing it somehow retain the residue of the Republican cloak.

The legacy of the troubles in these communities is a culture of acceptance of criminal activity and intimidation as normality. We now even have a wave of 20 somethings that knew nothing of the darkest times but are now the minions of these law breakers. They do the dirty work, drive the mercs, beat people up together in bars and hard out instructional leaflets outside polling stations. Today's freedom fighters.

Thieving, smuggling and drawing the dole to weaken the crown ended as a morally credible crusade a generation ago. Now it just means less nurses in the hospital, fewer text books in schools and bumpy roads. Eire nua.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 07:47:17 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 20, 2015, 04:48:06 PMNow it just means less nurses in the hospital, fewer text books in schools and bumpy roads. Eire nua.
You honestly believe the above? Plenty of money available to fund the UK's war fetish, so I don't think the activities of a couple of dozen or so individuals in South Armagh has any real bearing on the exchequer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 21, 2015, 10:25:23 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 07:47:17 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 20, 2015, 04:48:06 PMNow it just means less nurses in the hospital, fewer text books in schools and bumpy roads. Eire nua.
You honestly believe the above? Plenty of money available to fund the UK's war fetish, so I don't think the activities of a couple of dozen or so individuals in South Armagh has any real bearing on the exchequer.
Still doesn't make diesel laundering, Garda killing etc etc alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2015, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 07:47:17 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 20, 2015, 04:48:06 PMNow it just means less nurses in the hospital, fewer text books in schools and bumpy roads. Eire nua.
You honestly believe the above? Plenty of money available to fund the UK's war fetish, so I don't think the activities of a couple of dozen or so individuals in South Armagh has any real bearing on the exchequer.

This presumes that money available for war is available for hospitals, roads etc, when all the evidence suggests that this is not the case. The reality is that a any serious discussion of a United Ireland is dependent on proper public finances and that SF are opposing a United Ireland by their attitudes in this matter and in their irresponsibility in regard to expenditure generally.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 12:20:48 PM
Really? What exactly is stopping the UK from cutting back on military spending? And directing it to more useful causes? Say trident for example. Literally no need for it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2015, 12:47:22 PM
The UK spends money on what it thinks is wise. Either way it will never spend on roads, schools and health in S. Armagh what it spent on occupying it.

The business of Irish people should be to get out if the UK so that their expenditure is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: DuffleKing on December 21, 2015, 01:44:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 07:47:17 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 20, 2015, 04:48:06 PMNow it just means less nurses in the hospital, fewer text books in schools and bumpy roads. Eire nua.
You honestly believe the above? Plenty of money available to fund the UK's war fetish, so I don't think the activities of a couple of dozen or so individuals in South Armagh has any real bearing on the exchequer.

How about just opposing that culture because it's right to do so rather than trying to find a "what about" loophole to justify it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 21, 2015, 01:44:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 07:47:17 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 20, 2015, 04:48:06 PMNow it just means less nurses in the hospital, fewer text books in schools and bumpy roads. Eire nua.
You honestly believe the above? Plenty of money available to fund the UK's war fetish, so I don't think the activities of a couple of dozen or so individuals in South Armagh has any real bearing on the exchequer.

How about just opposing that culture because it's right to do so rather than trying to find a "what about" loophole to justify it?
Where did I say I supported it?
I'm saying it doesn't make a difference to UK gov education, health or infrastructure spending.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: DuffleKing on December 21, 2015, 01:59:36 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 21, 2015, 01:44:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 07:47:17 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 20, 2015, 04:48:06 PMNow it just means less nurses in the hospital, fewer text books in schools and bumpy roads. Eire nua.
You honestly believe the above? Plenty of money available to fund the UK's war fetish, so I don't think the activities of a couple of dozen or so individuals in South Armagh has any real bearing on the exchequer.


How about just opposing that culture because it's right to do so rather than trying to find a "what about" loophole to justify it?
Where did I say I supported it?
I'm saying it doesn't make a difference to UK gov education, health or infrastructure spending.

Right... useful point.

So you do condemn it then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:02:41 PM
To be honest, I'd be more concerned about the environmental impact than any monetary loss to the taxman, so on that basis yes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: DuffleKing on December 21, 2015, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:02:41 PM
To be honest, I'd be more concerned about the environmental impact than any monetary loss to the taxman, so on that basis yes.

I'm more concerned about the societal impact that common criminals being the face of the Republican movement and their apparent free hand has.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on December 21, 2015, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:02:41 PM
To be honest, I'd be more concerned about the environmental impact than any monetary loss to the taxman, so on that basis yes.

The monetary loss to the taxman has to be made up by the other taxpayers, you realise that?
It's not "the taxman" that is being ripped off, it's the rest of us taxpayers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:10:06 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 21, 2015, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:02:41 PM
To be honest, I'd be more concerned about the environmental impact than any monetary loss to the taxman, so on that basis yes.

The monetary loss to the taxman has to be made up by the other taxpayers, you realise that?
It's not "the taxman" that is being ripped off, it's the rest of us taxpayers.
Have you any idea how much fuel is taxed to start off with?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on December 21, 2015, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:10:06 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 21, 2015, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:02:41 PM
To be honest, I'd be more concerned about the environmental impact than any monetary loss to the taxman, so on that basis yes.

The monetary loss to the taxman has to be made up by the other taxpayers, you realise that?
It's not "the taxman" that is being ripped off, it's the rest of us taxpayers.
Have you any idea how much fuel is taxed to start off with?

I have an idea alright. I don't see how that changes my point above.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:14:29 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 21, 2015, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:02:41 PM
To be honest, I'd be more concerned about the environmental impact than any monetary loss to the taxman, so on that basis yes.

I'm more concerned about the societal impact that common criminals being the face of the Republican movement and their apparent free hand has.
Well there is also that, free hand though? Sure the Don has just been found guilty before a jury-less court.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:16:30 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 21, 2015, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:10:06 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 21, 2015, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 02:02:41 PM
To be honest, I'd be more concerned about the environmental impact than any monetary loss to the taxman, so on that basis yes.

The monetary loss to the taxman has to be made up by the other taxpayers, you realise that?
It's not "the taxman" that is being ripped off, it's the rest of us taxpayers.
Have you any idea how much fuel is taxed to start off with?

I have an idea alright. I don't see how that changes my point above.
I would respectfully suggest that the activities of fuel launderers along the irish border does not impact tax imposed on fuel in the UK. Or Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 21, 2015, 05:14:38 PM
The decent people would either get better public services or have to pay less tax if the border scumbags were put out of business.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 06:06:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2015, 05:14:38 PM
The decent people would either get better public services or have to pay less tax if the border scumbags were put out of business.
If you'd ever set foot anywhere near the border you'd know that it's economically desolate on both sides. And that isn't anything to do with a few cowboys selling dodgy diesel either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 21, 2015, 07:12:45 PM

An awful lot of Co Roscommon and other parts of Connacht are economically desolate but we didn't turn to crime.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2015, 07:25:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2015, 07:12:45 PM

An awful lot of Co Roscommon and other parts of Connacht are economically desolate but we didn't turn to crime.

Why are you called sheep stealers so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 21, 2015, 09:14:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 21, 2015, 07:25:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2015, 07:12:45 PM

An awful lot of Co Roscommon and other parts of Connacht are economically desolate but we didn't turn to crime.

Why are you called sheep stealers so.
Have no idea as naturally enough we didn't invent that name.
Some say it was from famine times. Some herrin chokers say that when they'd be walking sheep to the fair in Ros town some of the sheep would "vanish" in the dark.

Anyway I see there was a "Task Force" launched in Farmleigh today to target crime in the Border badlands.
Meanwhile statistics on Cards injuries shows Roscommon is the safest Garda Division.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on December 21, 2015, 09:43:46 PM
The best thing that could happen Sinn Fein is for Gerry to retire.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: laceer on December 22, 2015, 09:25:00 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 21, 2015, 09:43:46 PM
The best thing that could happen Sinn Fein is for Gerry to retire.

Politics on this island will not progress until all politicians who lived through and "participated" in the troubles retire. Too much bitterness and resentment is harboured on all sides.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 22, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
It's hard to know where to start answering some of the points made, but in no particular order:
Slab Murphy has been found guilty of tax evasion and must pay the price imo. Adams and McGuinness are entitled to laude his contribution to the peace process but that does not take away from his illegal activity. They would be best to say nothing again imo.
I never fail to be taken aback by the hypocrisy of some posters who view the IRA campaign of the '70's and '80's as some how different from the activities of the old IRA in the early years of the last century. There is no difference. Catholics were discriminated against in the North, left in poverty denied houses and jobs some took up protest and were brutalised by the Unionist Government and the RUC some took up arms. Now you can debate the rights and wrongs of this situation but if you do so you must apply some balance. Rossfan's arguments are lost in the vehemence of his totally anti SF agenda and whitewashing of history. As with all conflicts bad things were done and not just by the Provos and not just in the '70's and '80's. I recommend you read Bonfires on the Hillsides by the late James Kelly, it will open some eyes here that are welded shut. If Slab rightly goes down so to must the assorted bankers and charlatans who collapsed the Irish economy with there brown bags and gombeenism. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 22, 2015, 10:57:36 AM
Where exactly did I "whitewash history" ????
The war ended formally with the referendum in 1998.
Ex participants in the war should have become law abiding citizens then.
That includes Slab, Northern Bank robbers etc.SF should have made it clear internally that such behaviour was not on instead of praising the criminals.
Until they do they can forget about ruling in the 26 Cos.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 22, 2015, 11:23:58 AM
Jesus it's been a bad week for the Shinners.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2015, 11:43:58 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 11:23:58 AM
Jesus it's been a bad week for the Shinners.

They've essentially walked off the pitch as far as the 26 county election is concerned, both for transfers in the election itself or having any role in the government formed. FF will get a few more seats and FG/Lab with a few stragglers will form the next government.

Perhaps they feel that they weren't going into government anyway and the dust will have settled and Gerry will be gone anyway in 5 years time or maybe they haven't a clue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:13:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2015, 11:43:58 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 11:23:58 AM
Jesus it's been a bad week for the Shinners.

They've essentially walked off the pitch as far as the 26 county election is concerned, both for transfers in the election itself or having any role in the government formed. FF will get a few more seats and FG/Lab with a few stragglers will form the next government.

Perhaps they feel that they weren't going into government anyway and the dust will have settled and Gerry will be gone anyway in 5 years time or maybe they haven't a clue.

Adams is clearly a very intelligent man but he either felt that

a) Appeasing ex-Provos in South Armagh was more important than political growth in Rep of Ireland
b) His target market in the Rep of Ireland are die-hard Republicans who don't care about the ongoing political screwups or the uneducated marginalised who don't read broadsheets or listen to RTE1

He needs to go as he's only holding back the party. This guff about about attacking the special criminal court/not swallowing the full apparatus of the state etc just brings back why people wouldn't vote for them in the first place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: laceer on December 22, 2015, 09:25:00 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 21, 2015, 09:43:46 PM
The best thing that could happen Sinn Fein is for Gerry to retire.

Politics on this island will not progress until all politicians who lived through and "participated" in the troubles retire. Too much bitterness and resentment is harboured on all sides.

Get rid of Gerry and the Independent and their ilk will just move onto the next move onto attacking the next leader. No SF leader will be acceptable to the southern establishment much less a northerner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:15:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:13:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2015, 11:43:58 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 11:23:58 AM
Jesus it's been a bad week for the Shinners.

They've essentially walked off the pitch as far as the 26 county election is concerned, both for transfers in the election itself or having any role in the government formed. FF will get a few more seats and FG/Lab with a few stragglers will form the next government.

Perhaps they feel that they weren't going into government anyway and the dust will have settled and Gerry will be gone anyway in 5 years time or maybe they haven't a clue.

Adams is clearly a very intelligent man but he either felt that

a) Appeasing ex-Provos in South Armagh was more important than political growth in Rep of Ireland
b) His target market in the Rep of Ireland are die-hard Republicans who don't care about the ongoing political screwups or the uneducated marginalised who don't read broadsheets or listen to RTE1

He needs to go as he's only holding back the party. This guff about about attacking the special criminal court/not swallowing the full apparatus of the state etc just brings back why people wouldn't vote for them in the first place.

Have you anything to support that assertion?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:11 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: laceer on December 22, 2015, 09:25:00 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 21, 2015, 09:43:46 PM
The best thing that could happen Sinn Fein is for Gerry to retire.

Politics on this island will not progress until all politicians who lived through and "participated" in the troubles retire. Too much bitterness and resentment is harboured on all sides.

No SF leader will be acceptable to the southern establishment much less a northerner.

One without the baggage of the disappeared, the hidden sex abusers and welcomer of Gerry McCabe's killers would be.

Pearse Doherty or Mary Lou are both fine politicians continually undermined by having to excuse the past of their party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:15:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:13:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2015, 11:43:58 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 11:23:58 AM
Jesus it's been a bad week for the Shinners.

They've essentially walked off the pitch as far as the 26 county election is concerned, both for transfers in the election itself or having any role in the government formed. FF will get a few more seats and FG/Lab with a few stragglers will form the next government.

Perhaps they feel that they weren't going into government anyway and the dust will have settled and Gerry will be gone anyway in 5 years time or maybe they haven't a clue.

Adams is clearly a very intelligent man but he either felt that

a) Appeasing ex-Provos in South Armagh was more important than political growth in Rep of Ireland
b) His target market in the Rep of Ireland are die-hard Republicans who don't care about the ongoing political screwups or the uneducated marginalised who don't read broadsheets or listen to RTE1

He needs to go as he's only holding back the party. This guff about about attacking the special criminal court/not swallowing the full apparatus of the state etc just brings back why people wouldn't vote for them in the first place.

Have you anything to support that assertion?

My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 22, 2015, 03:44:25 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?
They won't to go much, if at all, beyond their current level of support in the 26 while they continue to back the ex militant wrongdoers.
Indeed a lot of their current newer support is coming from anti everything people who love what SF is saying i.e. " Anti everything" and could cuckoo economics.
Their Health document last week was great comedy.

I presume a Pearse or Marylou  in charge would alienate a lot of the old guard up North but would that not be well offset by gaining support from a large cohort of the now non voting younger Nationalist population?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 22, 2015, 09:16:48 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?
I'd say most people consider McGuinness to be the SF leader in the north since Gerry ventured south, and Doherty or McDonald taking over won't have any great impact in that respect. Despite SF's big sell being that they are an all-Ireland party, the two separate political systems mean that you're always going to effectively have a leader in each jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 22, 2015, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: laceer on December 22, 2015, 09:25:00 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 21, 2015, 09:43:46 PM
The best thing that could happen Sinn Fein is for Gerry to retire.

Politics on this island will not progress until all politicians who lived through and "participated" in the troubles retire. Too much bitterness and resentment is harboured on all sides.

Get rid of Gerry and the Independent and their ilk will just move onto the next move onto attacking the next leader. No SF leader will be acceptable to the southern establishment much less a northerner.
Someone without the baggage that Adams has, and others of his generation, would make it a lot more difficult for their opponents. For example, Mary Lou could probably have avoided any significant attention on this week's story, if it wasn't for the media looking to see whether she agreed with Adams. Political opponents will always attack - that's the nature of the game. But sometimes it's made fairly easy for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 22, 2015, 09:29:04 PM
Arguably the most damaging aspect of this debate is the opposition to the Special Criminal Court (rather than any defence of the individual at the centre of this case).

The right to trial by a jury of your peers is the ideal scenario, but if SF's political opponents highlight to the public the type of cases that SF want members of the public to sit on juries for, then i'd imagine the proportion of people who support that position would be fairly low.

And Adams' saying that judges can sometimes get it wrong? Can juries?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2015, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:13:20 PM
Get rid of Gerry and the Independent and their ilk will just move onto the next move onto attacking the next leader. No SF leader will be acceptable to the southern establishment much less a northerner.

If the leader was a competent one promoting half thought out policies then they would hold their own, anti everything policies are never going to persuade sensible people. One problem for SF is that while you can name a few half credible people in the South in an age group who can lead in the future, I can't quite think of any in the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on December 22, 2015, 10:57:32 PM
Mcguinness was praising yer man Slab yesterday for the 'work' he did for the peace process.

Could anyone shed any light as to what this 'work' was?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on December 23, 2015, 01:06:47 AM
The current shenanigans won't cost SF much votes in any southern election.  They will poll 15 - 17 % in any national election .  Neither they or Ff want power.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 01:33:41 AM
They'll be lucky to get 6% in Ros/North Galway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 01:39:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 01:33:41 AM
They'll be lucky to get 6% in Ros/North Galway.

I take it you're on the census board? or have you ;) insider knowledge ? ;)

prat.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stephenite on December 23, 2015, 01:43:03 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM


We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else.

Donagh, is that you?

You were saying the exact same thing back in 2007 - making bold predictions about significant gains, then the opposite happened. Now I'm out of the country long enough to be unable to make any accurate predictions but my suspicion is that not a whole lot has changed in regards to how Gerry Adams is viewed by the public in the South
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on December 23, 2015, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

SF will be fine in the next election and will double their seats I think.

They want to beat Ff and effectively lead the opposition.  That is fine and dandy.  Then what ?? More populist promises and maybe government . 

Then what ???  Then they will realise you will have to call in the promises .  This means the next election will be carnage .   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2015, 10:16:50 AM
Apparently it is all a misprint and farmer Slab made his money from being an IFA leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on December 23, 2015, 10:34:07 AM
Brian Feeney sums it up well IMO;;

Brian Feeney
23 December, 2015 01:00
Gerry Adams owes Slab Murphy a debt of gratitude
Brian Feeney

In a radio interview on Monday Gerry Kelly was correct to bat away contrived SDLP concern about Sinn Féin's response to the conviction of 'Slab' Murphy for tax evasion. The SDLP had simply jumped on the bandwagon alongside every party in the Republic once Dublin's Special Criminal Court had handed down its decision.

As Kelly pointed out, the SDLP have no dog in the fight. They don't stand in the Republic's elections or play any part in its politics. It was simply an opportunity to have a crack at Sinn Féin. He might also have pointed out that the BBC took no notice of the worst floods for years in the Republic with thousands of acres inundated by the River Shannon and water rising at Shannon Pot near the Fermanagh border. Yet a comment by Gerry Adams about a Dublin court case merited a lengthy interview.

You could hear the frustration in Kelly's voice at the hypocrisy because the SDLP like all the other parties lining up to take a pop, know, or if they don't should know, why Gerry Adams felt it necessary to issue a detailed statement about the case.

Let's not beat about the bush here. Slab Murphy lost a libel case in Dublin before a jury, please note, whom he failed to convince that allegations about his IRA activities were false. Murphy became IRA chief of staff at a crucial time in the peace process, the end of 1997. At an IRA general army convention in Gortahork then the quartermaster Michael McKevitt led a dangerous split out of which emerged the Real IRA but he was unable to take any substantial group with him.

Murphy was able to hold the vast majority of the IRA, but critically carry south Armagh with him into the Good Friday Agreement and the commitment to exclusively peaceful and democratic means. Murphy presided as chief of staff through the process of elections and decommissioning and for all we know may still be on the army council.

Gerry Adams owes him an enormous debt of gratitude. Murphy's people in south Armagh think to be pursued through the courts is a poor reward for his efforts through those difficult and dangerous years. The offences of which he was found guilty were committed more than ten years ago, 1996-2004 – a different time. What's Adams supposed to do? Walk away? Join the condemnation? He knows, as Gerry Kelly knows and all those sanctimonious critics north and south know, that if it hadn't been for Murphy events after 1997 would have taken an entirely different direction.

To say the least it wouldn't go down too well in south Armagh if Gerry Adams were now to rat on the man to whom he owes so much. Of course Slab Murphy is not related to the Archangel Gabriel or even a mere Irish saint. He has been linked to many dreadful incidents but like many of those now in prominent positions in northern politics that was then.

People forget that Murphy is not the only one who has fallen foul of officials pursuing cases they were unable to prosecute before 1998. His close colleague Sean Hughes, the man the British army nicknamed 'The Surgeon' because of the precision of his IRA operations, was prosecuted in 2001 for money laundering and other offences. He pleaded guilty. The then Minister for Regional Development Conor Murphy MP said: ``I know him [Hughes] very well. He's a good friend of mine and has been for very many years and I'm very proud of that.''

Hiding behind parliamentary privilege as senior DUP men tend to do, Peter Robinson said Hughes had been appointed to the IRA army council in 2002. And why might that have been except to consolidate the position of the supporters of the peace process in the IRA as the movement edged towards decommissioning?

Now none of this is secret. On the contrary, if those politicians wringing their hands in righteous rage at tax evasion don't know chapter and verse of this detail they shouldn't be in politics. On the other hand because they do know but ignore the real background they provide an authentic example of politicians' behaviour. Not edifying.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 23, 2015, 11:41:18 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on December 22, 2015, 10:57:32 PM
Mcguinness was praising yer man Slab yesterday for the 'work' he did for the peace process.

Could anyone shed any light as to what this 'work' was?
Read Brian Feeney in todays Irish News, interesting take on the case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Bord na Mona man on December 23, 2015, 11:56:00 AM
For how long should work done for the peace process give someone a free pass?
Can Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair use it to excuse the various messes they created after 1998?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on December 23, 2015, 12:41:40 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 23, 2015, 11:56:00 AM
For how long should work done for the peace process give someone a free pass?
Can Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair use it to excuse the various messes they created after 1998?
Killers and psychopaths  always get a free pass after wars. Bosnia was EXACTLY the same

http://www.mikepope.com/blog/displayblog.aspx?permalink=2109
What unites many countries in the world, both the ones that don't give a fig about human rights and the ones that profess they do, is their unwillingness to punish their war criminals. When it comes to accountability, instances of confronting their own guilt are exceedingly rare among nations, especially when the victims are members of some other race, religion, or country. Even international leaders concerned with situations such as the one in Yugoslavia, despite their protest to the contrary , are often reluctant to see the guilty punished since political interests usually take precedence over justice.

In addition, there's an unwritten understanding that crimes committed by the United States and a few other Western powers go unpunished. When the International Criminal Court was launched in 2003, the Bush administration refused to join, fearing that its military and its leaders could be arbitrarily indicted by some grandstanding foreign prosecutor. But that was just dissembling. The real reason is that the United States considered itself as a country whose exceptional moral standing exempts it from accountability for the war crimes it commits. The trouble with that is that everybody else feels the same way. The belief that one ought to be able to kill one's enemies and live happily ever after is nearly universal.

Not many people care to know what their governments do to others in their name. No society can bear the thought that it is committing some injustice against innocents, so elaborate excuses have to be made. Justifying war crimes to their fellow citizens is what nationalist intellectuals are expected to do. The editorial and opinion pages of our newspapers and magazines have recently published articles pleading with President Bush to pardon the lawyers in the Department of Justice who devised the regime of torture and detention and the officials who put them into practice, and not allow them to be criminally prosecuted, since, allegedly, they broke the law out of a sincere wish to keep us safe. What nationalist ideologues everywhere tell their own people is that they occupy a unique moral universe in which the laws of the outside world do not apply. Unlike everyone else in the world, they, and only they, are good even when they are slaughtering women and children. Anyone who objects to that view either suffers from self-hatred or is some sort of traitor in the employ of a foreign power.

-- Charles Simic, "Connoisseurs of Cruelty," New York Review of Books, March 12, 2009
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 23, 2015, 11:56:00 AM
For how long should work done for the peace process give someone a free pass?

Seems Slabeen got one until the raid on Ballybinaby in 2006.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 23, 2015, 11:56:00 AM
For how long should work done for the peace process give someone a free pass?

Seems Slabeen got one until the raid on Ballybinaby in 2006.

Who do you vote for?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

SF will be fine in the next election and will double their seats I think.

They want to beat Ff and effectively lead the opposition.  That is fine and dandy.  Then what ?? More populist promises and maybe government . 

Then what ???  Then they will realise you will have to call in the promises .  This means the next election will be carnage .

Maybe they will enforce change. Maybe the first thing they will do if they got into power is to drastically reduce the salaries and expenses of TDs and cap what they can earn and claim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 03:54:03 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 23, 2015, 11:56:00 AM
For how long should work done for the peace process give someone a free pass?

Seems Slabeen got one until the raid on Ballybinaby in 2006.

Who do you vote for?
None of your effn business. We have secret ballot here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 03:56:19 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

SF will be fine in the next election and will double their seats I think.

They want to beat Ff and effectively lead the opposition.  That is fine and dandy.  Then what ?? More populist promises and maybe government . 

Then what ???  Then they will realise you will have to call in the promises .  This means the next election will be carnage .

Maybe they will enforce change. Maybe the first thing they will do if they got into power is to drastically reduce the salaries and expenses of TDs and cap what they can earn and claim.

They will in my bolx. That would reduce the amount the 80 SF TDs would hand over to Party HQ.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on December 23, 2015, 03:58:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

SF will be fine in the next election and will double their seats I think.

They want to beat Ff and effectively lead the opposition.  That is fine and dandy.  Then what ?? More populist promises and maybe government . 

Then what ???  Then they will realise you will have to call in the promises .  This means the next election will be carnage .

Maybe they will enforce change. Maybe the first thing they will do if they got into power is to drastically reduce the salaries and expenses of TDs and cap what they can earn and claim.

Will go down well the public for a week or two. That's hardly going to result in a budget surplus though!
A few hundred grand is meaningless in the overall economy.
Maybe the change they will enforce will be to disband the special criminal court? Then perhaps give special status to 'volunteers' so they can't be prosecuted for any misdemeanour's due to their service history?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mikehunt on December 23, 2015, 04:06:35 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 23, 2015, 11:56:00 AM
For how long should work done for the peace process give someone a free pass?

Seems Slabeen got one until the raid on Ballybinaby in 2006.

Who do you vote for?

Rossfan is quite the talented debater. If you don't agree with him or call him on his spoof and bluster he will ignore you. He mocks people who question govt policy , (calling them lefty loons, yet he despises wealthy people). A trough eating public sector worker who wants things to stay just the way they are. He is quite happy for Fine Gael to borrow money to pay for his pay increases yet sneers at those on welfare. He is so full of contradictions it is no surprise he comes across as confused.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 04:07:07 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 23, 2015, 03:58:28 PM
Will go down well the public for a week or two. That's hardly going to result in a budget surplus though!
A few hundred grand is meaningless in the overall economy.

A few hundred grand is meaningless is it? This is the sort of attitude that leads to mismanagement in the public sector.
E-voting machines - they don't work. ah sure it's only 30 million down the pan...

No wonder. I hope you don't work in a government department.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mikehunt on December 23, 2015, 04:23:36 PM
Surely with FG's prior history they won't be afforded a jury either?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/fine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406#.VnljU3JcZ9U.twitter
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 04:53:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on December 23, 2015, 04:23:36 PM
Surely with FG's prior history they won't be afforded a jury either?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/fine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406#.VnljU3JcZ9U.twitter

Did baldy noonan go to jail for this????

I don't remember the trial or the conviction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on December 23, 2015, 04:55:08 PM
They won't cut TD  wages as their AIW policy is a selling point.

TD salaries are not excessive if they were doing mostly work as legislators and parliamentarians .  That said 100 would be enough .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 07:53:42 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 23, 2015, 03:58:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

SF will be fine in the next election and will double their seats I think.

They want to beat Ff and effectively lead the opposition.  That is fine and dandy.  Then what ?? More populist promises and maybe government . 

Then what ???  Then they will realise you will have to call in the promises .  This means the next election will be carnage .

Maybe they will enforce change. Maybe the first thing they will do if they got into power is to drastically reduce the salaries and expenses of TDs and cap what they can earn and claim.

Will go down well the public for a week or two. That's hardly going to result in a budget surplus though!
A few hundred grand is meaningless in the overall economy.
Maybe the change they will enforce will be to disband the special criminal court? Then perhaps give special status to 'volunteers' so they can't be prosecuted for any misdemeanour's due to their service history?

Leaders lead by example and the first place they should look to reform is TDs and their extortionate salaries and expenses. Irish TDs are some of the highest paid politicians in the world and earn more than their equivalents from the biggest economies in the world. It's something they refuse to tackle.

Maybe the Blueshirts will come out and aplogise for Ballyseedy? Maybe Fianna Fail will come out and apologise for their brutal executions of Republicans?

To my mind you can portray those 'volunteers' whatever way you want, but they were willing to risk their lives, be it in prison, in a coffin or on the run for reform in the society they believe badly necessitated reform. The TDs from the big parties are the most cynical greedy and immoral people in the country. Could you imagine asking that vile, heinous simpleton Kenny to give something up for what he believed to be the good of society?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 08:02:38 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 04:55:08 PM
They won't cut TD  wages as their AIW policy is a selling point.

TD salaries are not excessive if they were doing mostly work as legislators and parliamentarians .  That said 100 would be enough .

Sizeably cutting TD salaries and capping them is a far bigger selling point that taking the average industrial wage. TD salaries are excessive, they are higher paid than their equivalents in the biggest economies in the world, not to mention the fiddling with expenses.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 03:54:03 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 23, 2015, 11:56:00 AM
For how long should work done for the peace process give someone a free pass?

Seems Slabeen got one until the raid on Ballybinaby in 2006.

Who do you vote for?
None of your effn business. We have secret ballot here.

Too scared of the contradictions it opens you up to?

Not man enough to apply your standards across the board?

That's what I think.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on December 23, 2015, 08:33:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 08:02:38 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 04:55:08 PM
They won't cut TD  wages as their AIW policy is a selling point.

TD salaries are not excessive if they were doing mostly work as legislators and parliamentarians .  That said 100 would be enough .

Sizeably cutting TD salaries and capping them is a far bigger selling point that taking the average industrial wage. TD salaries are excessive, they are higher paid than their equivalents in the biggest economies in the world, not to mention the fiddling with expenses.

TD salaries are ok but there is too many TD s .  100 is enough but the AIW is a an SF badge of honour.

SF are a political industrial complex .  They like any populist party like FF , Labour etc will be found out in due course. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 09:08:26 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 08:33:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 08:02:38 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 04:55:08 PM
They won't cut TD  wages as their AIW policy is a selling point.

TD salaries are not excessive if they were doing mostly work as legislators and parliamentarians .  That said 100 would be enough .

Sizeably cutting TD salaries and capping them is a far bigger selling point that taking the average industrial wage. TD salaries are excessive, they are higher paid than their equivalents in the biggest economies in the world, not to mention the fiddling with expenses.

TD salaries are ok but there is too many TD s .  100 is enough but the AIW is a an SF badge of honour.

SF are a political industrial complex .  They like any populist party like FF , Labour etc will be found out in due course.

I remember a certain FG party making crazy promises in a 5 point plan before the last election...then there was the "contract" Enda made. Not to mention this cracker of a quote.

Excerpts from Dáil Debate, Wednesday 2nd February 1994

Mr Enda Kenny TD

"It is morally unjust and unfair to tax a person's home, and by so doing grind him into the ground. Indeed in cases it could probably be unconstitutional"
"It reminds me of a vampire tax in that it drives a stake through the heart of home ownership, through enthusiasm and initiative, and sucks the life blood of people who want to own their own home and better their position"
"If the Government fail to appreciate the passion with which people will defend their rights to own their home and have it looking as well as it should, it is making a serious mistake"


Found out but you will still vote him as Taoiseach.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2015, 09:38:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 09:08:26 PM
Found out but you will still vote him as Taoiseach.

Kenny is a bollix to be sure, but who else never changes their policies over a 20 year period, SF?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on December 23, 2015, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2015, 09:38:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 09:08:26 PM
Found out but you will still vote him as Taoiseach.

Kenny is a bollix to be sure, but who else never changes their policies over a 20 year period, SF?
Changed their tune over the years alright.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvpMlHuIrs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvpMlHuIrs)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2015, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on December 23, 2015, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2015, 09:38:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 09:08:26 PM
Found out but you will still vote him as Taoiseach.

Kenny is a bollix to be sure, but who else never changes their policies over a 20 year period, SF?
Changed their tune over the years alright.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvpMlHuIrs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvpMlHuIrs)

While it is very necessary to identify political hypocrisy, if politicians stop talking bollix and move towards sense, be it Kenny on the Property tax or McGuinness on the future of Ireland, then there is no point in demanding that they go back to bollix for consistency.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 03:54:03 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 23, 2015, 11:56:00 AM
For how long should work done for the peace process give someone a free pass?

Seems Slabeen got one until the raid on Ballybinaby in 2006.

Who do you vote for?
None of your effn business. We have secret ballot here.

Too scared of the contradictions it opens you up to?

Not man enough to apply your standards across the board?

That's what I think.

What indecipherable nonsensical babble you come out with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on December 24, 2015, 12:01:29 AM
It's like Christmas advertising.

People will say SF have gone too far this time. They'll never recover from this.

They always come out smelling of roses in terms of support.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 24, 2015, 12:56:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 11:36:37 PM

What indecipherable nonsensical babble you come out with.

This coming from someone who can't even think for themselves. The ultimate hypocrite!
I wonder what colour shirt his mammy is buying him for xmas. I'd nearly hazard a guess...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 24, 2015, 01:04:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2015, 12:56:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 11:36:37 PM

What indecipherable nonsensical babble you come out with.

This coming from someone who can't even think for themselves. The ultimate hypocrite!

Indeed. Rossfan is obviously not from the SF family, a noted centre of diverse opinion and independent thought.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on December 24, 2015, 02:42:46 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 24, 2015, 12:01:29 AM
It's like Christmas advertising.

People will say SF have gone too far this time. They'll never recover from this.

They always come out smelling of roses in terms of support.

You are spot on ,  the SF vote in next Southern election won't care a great deal about the current furore.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 08:07:00 AM
Quote from: ashman on December 24, 2015, 02:42:46 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 24, 2015, 12:01:29 AM
It's like Christmas advertising.

People will say SF have gone too far this time. They'll never recover from this.

They always come out smelling of roses in terms of support.

You are spot on ,  the SF vote in next Southern election won't care a great deal about the current furore.
But what is "the SF vote"? Is it the vote they have, or the vote they want?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 08:13:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

SF will be fine in the next election and will double their seats I think.

They want to beat Ff and effectively lead the opposition.  That is fine and dandy.  Then what ?? More populist promises and maybe government . 

Then what ???  Then they will realise you will have to call in the promises .  This means the next election will be carnage .

Maybe they will enforce change. Maybe the first thing they will do if they got into power is to drastically reduce the salaries and expenses of TDs and cap what they can earn and claim.
Yes, because it's not like they accepted an increase in MLA pay in the current Assembly term, paid their Special Advisors more than a TD salary, or were exposed on expenses... oh, wait...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 24, 2015, 08:30:35 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2015, 01:04:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2015, 12:56:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 11:36:37 PM

What indecipherable nonsensical babble you come out with.

This coming from someone who can't even think for themselves. The ultimate hypocrite!

Indeed. Rossfan is obviously not from the SF family, a noted centre of diverse opinion and independent thought.
So if you don't think SF is wonderful it's a sign you " can't even think for themselves"
What absolute bullshitty nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 09:19:26 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2015, 08:30:35 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2015, 01:04:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2015, 12:56:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 11:36:37 PM

What indecipherable nonsensical babble you come out with.

This coming from someone who can't even think for themselves. The ultimate hypocrite!

Indeed. Rossfan is obviously not from the SF family, a noted centre of diverse opinion and independent thought.
So if you don't think SF is wonderful it's a sign you " can't even think for themselves"
What absolute bullshitty nonsense.
I think your sarcasm detector is turned off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on December 24, 2015, 10:39:43 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 08:07:00 AM
Quote from: ashman on December 24, 2015, 02:42:46 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 24, 2015, 12:01:29 AM
It's like Christmas advertising.

People will say SF have gone too far this time. They'll never recover from this.

They always come out smelling of roses in terms of support.

You are spot on ,  the SF vote in next Southern election won't care a great deal about the current furore.
But what is "the SF vote"? Is it the vote they have, or the vote they want?

As I see it enough people to believe in their policies .  Enough to make them the largest opposition party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 11:27:46 AM
Quote from: ashman on December 24, 2015, 10:39:43 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 08:07:00 AM
Quote from: ashman on December 24, 2015, 02:42:46 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 24, 2015, 12:01:29 AM
It's like Christmas advertising.

People will say SF have gone too far this time. They'll never recover from this.

They always come out smelling of roses in terms of support.

You are spot on ,  the SF vote in next Southern election won't care a great deal about the current furore.
But what is "the SF vote"? Is it the vote they have, or the vote they want?

As I see it enough people to believe in their policies .  Enough to make them the largest opposition party.
They'll get more seats than they have now, but I dont think they'll pass FF. Even with a smaller percentage of the vote, FF would return more seats.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 24, 2015, 11:48:38 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 09:19:26 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2015, 08:30:35 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2015, 01:04:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2015, 12:56:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 11:36:37 PM

What indecipherable nonsensical babble you come out with.

This coming from someone who can't even think for themselves. The ultimate hypocrite!

Indeed. Rossfan is obviously not from the SF family, a noted centre of diverse opinion and independent thought.
So if you don't think SF is wonderful it's a sign you " can't even think for themselves"
What absolute bullshitty nonsense.
I think your sarcasm detector is turned off.
I was responding to the think for themselves comment. Sarcasm of the intelligent poster noted. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on December 24, 2015, 12:10:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 11:27:46 AM
Quote from: ashman on December 24, 2015, 10:39:43 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 08:07:00 AM
Quote from: ashman on December 24, 2015, 02:42:46 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 24, 2015, 12:01:29 AM
It's like Christmas advertising.

People will say SF have gone too far this time. They'll never recover from this.

They always come out smelling of roses in terms of support.

You are spot on ,  the SF vote in next Southern election won't care a great deal about the current furore.
But what is "the SF vote"? Is it the vote they have, or the vote they want?

As I see it enough people to believe in their policies .  Enough to make them the largest opposition party.
They'll get more seats than they have now, but I dont think they'll pass FF. Even with a smaller percentage of the vote, FF would return more seats.

Will be close and I think you may be right but FF will still do poorly in Dublin. This will be a dirty battle and I think the current government could strangely be the beneficiaries.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:19:41 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2015, 06:06:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2015, 05:14:38 PM
The decent people would either get better public services or have to pay less tax if the border scumbags were put out of business.
If you'd ever set foot anywhere near the border you'd know that it's economically desolate on both sides. And that isn't anything to do with a few cowboys selling dodgy diesel either.

There is an undenialable truth in what Rossfan says.

The only motivation for these illegal activities is personal greed and we all pay for it. It has to end. On the Armagh/Louth/Monaghan border and everywhere else. There is no logical argument for tolerating it.

The cowboys in these areas are involved in a lot more that diesel and it very definitely they harm economic activity in the area.  Could you set up and run a legit pub, off licence, filling station, convenience store and pay normal wholesale prices and duties for your stock, pay proper wages to your staff, pay your taxes and charge normal retail prices anc compete with the cowboys for trade?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 22, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
It's hard to know where to start answering some of the points made, but in no particular order:
Slab Murphy has been found guilty of tax evasion and must pay the price imo. Adams and McGuinness are entitled to laude his contribution to the peace process but that does not take away from his illegal activity. They would be best to say nothing again imo.
I never fail to be taken aback by the hypocrisy of some posters who view the IRA campaign of the '70's and '80's as some how different from the activities of the old IRA in the early years of the last century. There is no difference. Catholics were discriminated against in the North, left in poverty denied houses and jobs some took up protest and were brutalised by the Unionist Government and the RUC some took up arms. Now you can debate the rights and wrongs of this situation but if you do so you must apply some balance. Rossfan's arguments are lost in the vehemence of his totally anti SF agenda and whitewashing of history. As with all conflicts bad things were done and not just by the Provos and not just in the '70's and '80's. I recommend you read Bonfires on the Hillsides by the late James Kelly, it will open some eyes here that are welded shut. If Slab rightly goes down so to must the assorted bankers and charlatans who collapsed the Irish economy with there brown bags and gombeenism.

Anybody want to outline Slab's contribution to the peace process?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:25:01 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: laceer on December 22, 2015, 09:25:00 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 21, 2015, 09:43:46 PM
The best thing that could happen Sinn Fein is for Gerry to retire.

Politics on this island will not progress until all politicians who lived through and "participated" in the troubles retire. Too much bitterness and resentment is harboured on all sides.

Get rid of Gerry and the Independent and their ilk will just move onto the next move onto attacking the next leader. No SF leader will be acceptable to the southern establishment much less a northerner.

Maybe no SF leader will be acceptable to the greater part of the southern electorate?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

If you want to judge Adams in electoral terms then you need to SF results in 2016 north and south against the swings to the left secured by parties with similar ecomonic policies in similarly fcuked up european economies. If they under achieive against this benchmark then it would be fair to call him an under achiever as a democratic leader
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 27, 2015, 05:48:07 PM
"Independent " newspapers excelling themselves today ::)
Telling us that SF election workers include "convicted criminals".
What next? Christmas fell on 25th Dec this year!?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on December 27, 2015, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 22, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
It's hard to know where to start answering some of the points made, but in no particular order:
Slab Murphy has been found guilty of tax evasion and must pay the price imo. Adams and McGuinness are entitled to laude his contribution to the peace process but that does not take away from his illegal activity. They would be best to say nothing again imo.
I never fail to be taken aback by the hypocrisy of some posters who view the IRA campaign of the '70's and '80's as some how different from the activities of the old IRA in the early years of the last century. There is no difference. Catholics were discriminated against in the North, left in poverty denied houses and jobs some took up protest and were brutalised by the Unionist Government and the RUC some took up arms. Now you can debate the rights and wrongs of this situation but if you do so you must apply some balance. Rossfan's arguments are lost in the vehemence of his totally anti SF agenda and whitewashing of history. As with all conflicts bad things were done and not just by the Provos and not just in the '70's and '80's. I recommend you read Bonfires on the Hillsides by the late James Kelly, it will open some eyes here that are welded shut. If Slab rightly goes down so to must the assorted bankers and charlatans who collapsed the Irish economy with there brown bags and gombeenism.

Anybody want to outline Slab's contribution to the peace process?
I think it was covered here already. He took over as head of PIRA Army council at at the time of the RIRA breakaway and managed to keep South Armagh on board with the ceasefire. A not inconsiderable achievement, though it does not excuse racketeering.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 07:53:42 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 23, 2015, 03:58:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

SF will be fine in the next election and will double their seats I think.

They want to beat Ff and effectively lead the opposition.  That is fine and dandy.  Then what ?? More populist promises and maybe government . 

Then what ???  Then they will realise you will have to call in the promises .  This means the next election will be carnage .

Maybe they will enforce change. Maybe the first thing they will do if they got into power is to drastically reduce the salaries and expenses of TDs and cap what they can earn and claim.

Will go down well the public for a week or two. That's hardly going to result in a budget surplus though!
A few hundred grand is meaningless in the overall economy.
Maybe the change they will enforce will be to disband the special criminal court? Then perhaps give special status to 'volunteers' so they can't be prosecuted for any misdemeanour's due to their service history?

Leaders lead by example and the first place they should look to reform is TDs and their extortionate salaries and expenses. Irish TDs are some of the highest paid politicians in the world and earn more than their equivalents from the biggest economies in the world. It's something they refuse to tackle.

Maybe the Blueshirts will come out and aplogise for Ballyseedy? Maybe Fianna Fail will come out and apologise for their brutal executions of Republicans?

To my mind you can portray those 'volunteers' whatever way you want, but they were willing to risk their lives, be it in prison, in a coffin or on the run for reform in the society they believe badly necessitated reform. The TDs from the big parties are the most cynical greedy and immoral people in the country. Could you imagine asking that vile, heinous simpleton Kenny to give something up for what he believed to be the good of society?

I Son't have to portray the "Volunteers" any particular way. I grew up with and live among them. Blackguards with high propensity for crimiality (and invariably the sort of criminality that lined their own pockets) is what I witessed throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s. They also had a appetite for hatred but minimal interest i politic (still less an understanding of polotics). Simplistic political sloguneerig was a means of gettig eyes to turn the other way.

This is not to deny unionist mis-rule and a discriminatory regime. It also does not deny the existence of some volunteers who were motivated by a deep love of their country
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 12:31:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 08:07:00 AM
Quote from: ashman on December 24, 2015, 02:42:46 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 24, 2015, 12:01:29 AM
It's like Christmas advertising.

People will say SF have gone too far this time. They'll never recover from this.

They always come out smelling of roses in terms of support.

You are spot on ,  the SF vote in next Southern election won't care a great deal about the current furore.
But what is "the SF vote"? Is it the vote they have, or the vote they want?

On the moey there.

SF cannot wi electoral gains but just appealing to the voter they already have.

2016 is a huge electoral test for the shinners. There is a mass movement in europe away from established parties. I electoral terms SF still have that newness about them. There is a movement to the left. SF expouse that. There is a move to anti-establishment parties. SF have that. There is an anti-ferderal move. SF have that. Every motive force is in their directio. Any short of a landshift in their direction and they will have under-performed against their direct comparitors. If that happens then we can discuss what might be wrong with brand SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 24, 2015, 08:13:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 23, 2015, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 23, 2015, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 22, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

SF will be fine in the next election and will double their seats I think.

They want to beat Ff and effectively lead the opposition.  That is fine and dandy.  Then what ?? More populist promises and maybe government . 

Then what ???  Then they will realise you will have to call in the promises .  This means the next election will be carnage .

Maybe they will enforce change. Maybe the first thing they will do if they got into power is to drastically reduce the salaries and expenses of TDs and cap what they can earn and claim.
Yes, because it's not like they accepted an increase in MLA pay in the current Assembly term, paid their Special Advisors more than a TD salary, or were exposed on expenses... oh, wait...

These are all important issues and in recognition of that SF wll have set out their position on them somewhere? Possibly a time capsule. Hopefully they can remember who have buried it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 27, 2015, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 22, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
It's hard to know where to start answering some of the points made, but in no particular order:
Slab Murphy has been found guilty of tax evasion and must pay the price imo. Adams and McGuinness are entitled to laude his contribution to the peace process but that does not take away from his illegal activity. They would be best to say nothing again imo.
I never fail to be taken aback by the hypocrisy of some posters who view the IRA campaign of the '70's and '80's as some how different from the activities of the old IRA in the early years of the last century. There is no difference. Catholics were discriminated against in the North, left in poverty denied houses and jobs some took up protest and were brutalised by the Unionist Government and the RUC some took up arms. Now you can debate the rights and wrongs of this situation but if you do so you must apply some balance. Rossfan's arguments are lost in the vehemence of his totally anti SF agenda and whitewashing of history. As with all conflicts bad things were done and not just by the Provos and not just in the '70's and '80's. I recommend you read Bonfires on the Hillsides by the late James Kelly, it will open some eyes here that are welded shut. If Slab rightly goes down so to must the assorted bankers and charlatans who collapsed the Irish economy with there brown bags and gombeenism.

Anybody want to outline Slab's contribution to the peace process?
I think it was covered here already. He took over as head of PIRA Army council at at the time of the RIRA breakaway and managed to keep South Armagh on board with the ceasefire. A not inconsiderable achievement, though it does not excuse racketeering.

Phew. For a moment I though he was some terrorist involve in murders. I now see he is mediator and post conflict guru.

He is a nasty shit. Prision is the place for him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on December 28, 2015, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 27, 2015, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 22, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
It's hard to know where to start answering some of the points made, but in no particular order:
Slab Murphy has been found guilty of tax evasion and must pay the price imo. Adams and McGuinness are entitled to laude his contribution to the peace process but that does not take away from his illegal activity. They would be best to say nothing again imo.
I never fail to be taken aback by the hypocrisy of some posters who view the IRA campaign of the '70's and '80's as some how different from the activities of the old IRA in the early years of the last century. There is no difference. Catholics were discriminated against in the North, left in poverty denied houses and jobs some took up protest and were brutalised by the Unionist Government and the RUC some took up arms. Now you can debate the rights and wrongs of this situation but if you do so you must apply some balance. Rossfan's arguments are lost in the vehemence of his totally anti SF agenda and whitewashing of history. As with all conflicts bad things were done and not just by the Provos and not just in the '70's and '80's. I recommend you read Bonfires on the Hillsides by the late James Kelly, it will open some eyes here that are welded shut. If Slab rightly goes down so to must the assorted bankers and charlatans who collapsed the Irish economy with there brown bags and gombeenism.

Anybody want to outline Slab's contribution to the peace process?
I think it was covered here already. He took over as head of PIRA Army council at at the time of the RIRA breakaway and managed to keep South Armagh on board with the ceasefire. A not inconsiderable achievement, though it does not excuse racketeering.

Phew. For a moment I though he was some terrorist involve in murders. I now see he is mediator and post conflict guru.

He is a nasty shit. Prision is the place for him.


Who is he accused of murdering?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 04:04:35 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on December 28, 2015, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 27, 2015, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 22, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
It's hard to know where to start answering some of the points made, but in no particular order:
Slab Murphy has been found guilty of tax evasion and must pay the price imo. Adams and McGuinness are entitled to laude his contribution to the peace process but that does not take away from his illegal activity. They would be best to say nothing again imo.
I never fail to be taken aback by the hypocrisy of some posters who view the IRA campaign of the '70's and '80's as some how different from the activities of the old IRA in the early years of the last century. There is no difference. Catholics were discriminated against in the North, left in poverty denied houses and jobs some took up protest and were brutalised by the Unionist Government and the RUC some took up arms. Now you can debate the rights and wrongs of this situation but if you do so you must apply some balance. Rossfan's arguments are lost in the vehemence of his totally anti SF agenda and whitewashing of history. As with all conflicts bad things were done and not just by the Provos and not just in the '70's and '80's. I recommend you read Bonfires on the Hillsides by the late James Kelly, it will open some eyes here that are welded shut. If Slab rightly goes down so to must the assorted bankers and charlatans who collapsed the Irish economy with there brown bags and gombeenism.

Anybody want to outline Slab's contribution to the peace process?
I think it was covered here already. He took over as head of PIRA Army council at at the time of the RIRA breakaway and managed to keep South Armagh on board with the ceasefire. A not inconsiderable achievement, though it does not excuse racketeering.

Phew. For a moment I though he was some terrorist involve in murders. I now see he is mediator and post conflict guru.

He is a nasty shit. Prision is the place for him.


Who is he accused of murdering?

Who has accused him of murdering people?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 28, 2015, 04:58:17 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 04:04:35 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on December 28, 2015, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 27, 2015, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 22, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
It's hard to know where to start answering some of the points made, but in no particular order:
Slab Murphy has been found guilty of tax evasion and must pay the price imo. Adams and McGuinness are entitled to laude his contribution to the peace process but that does not take away from his illegal activity. They would be best to say nothing again imo.
I never fail to be taken aback by the hypocrisy of some posters who view the IRA campaign of the '70's and '80's as some how different from the activities of the old IRA in the early years of the last century. There is no difference. Catholics were discriminated against in the North, left in poverty denied houses and jobs some took up protest and were brutalised by the Unionist Government and the RUC some took up arms. Now you can debate the rights and wrongs of this situation but if you do so you must apply some balance. Rossfan's arguments are lost in the vehemence of his totally anti SF agenda and whitewashing of history. As with all conflicts bad things were done and not just by the Provos and not just in the '70's and '80's. I recommend you read Bonfires on the Hillsides by the late James Kelly, it will open some eyes here that are welded shut. If Slab rightly goes down so to must the assorted bankers and charlatans who collapsed the Irish economy with there brown bags and gombeenism.

Anybody want to outline Slab's contribution to the peace process?
I think it was covered here already. He took over as head of PIRA Army council at at the time of the RIRA breakaway and managed to keep South Armagh on board with the ceasefire. A not inconsiderable achievement, though it does not excuse racketeering.

Phew. For a moment I though he was some terrorist involve in murders. I now see he is mediator and post conflict guru.

He is a nasty shit. Prision is the place for him.


Who is he accused of murdering?

Who has accused him of murdering people?

Testimony was heard during his trial that he decided who lived and died in the border region.

As alleged IRA chief of staff, those who crossed the IRA in the region didn't fair out too well - just ask Paul Quinn or Eamonn Collins

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 28, 2015, 04:59:19 PM
This exchange between John Mooney & Adams has to be fake

http://www.thejournal.ie/gerry-adams-slab-murphy-3-2516145-Dec2015/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on January 08, 2016, 09:32:25 PM
SF MLA faces big bill after admitting libelling UUP MP

A Sinn Fein MLA has admitted that he seriously libelled an Ulster Unionist MP by wrongly claiming that he had shot people - and now the Sinn Fein man potentially faces an enormous legal bill.

Fermanagh and South Tyrone MLA Phil Flanagan made the comments on Twitter on May 1, 2014 in relation to former Ulster Unionist leader Tom Elliott

Today the matter was heard at the High Court in Belfast.

The defamatory tweet, which was read out in court this morning, said: "Tom Elliott speaks to Stephen Nolan about the past. I wonder if he will reveal how many people he harassed or shot as a member of the UDR."

Mr Elliott, who is now the MP for Fermanagh and South Tyrone, immediately got his solicitor to write to Mr Flanagan and then began legal proceedings.

After a delay in which Mr Flanagan made no substantive response, his lawyers eventually replied to accept that his tweet had been defamatory.

They admitted that the allegation had been "wholly without foundation" and "untrue". He has agreed to pay compensation, which will be set by the judge.

Both Mr Elliott and Mr Flanagan were in court this morning and Mr Elliott gave evidence that he believed the tweet endangered his life by making him more of a target for dissident republicans.

It also emerged in court that Mr Flanagan - who was deselected by Sinn Fein last month and so will end his term as an MLA in May - had hoped to avail of taxpayer-funded insurance which indemnifies MLAs from actions arising from defamatory comments which they make.

However, the insurer has refused - for reasons which were not made clear in court - to pay for his case.

Mr Flanagan is now suing the insurer in a separate case which has yet to come to court.

As things stand, he will have to pay compensation to Mr Elliott as well as the legal costs for both sides of the action.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-news/sf-mla-faces-big-bill-after-admitting-libelling-uup-mp-1-7151520
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 08, 2016, 09:51:15 PM
Flanagan never gets fed up making a dick of himself
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2016, 10:00:36 PM
The guy is a liability so no wonder he's headed for the Broom cupboard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 08, 2016, 10:21:28 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 28, 2015, 04:58:17 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 04:04:35 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on December 28, 2015, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 28, 2015, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 27, 2015, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on December 25, 2015, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 22, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
It's hard to know where to start answering some of the points made, but in no particular order:
Slab Murphy has been found guilty of tax evasion and must pay the price imo. Adams and McGuinness are entitled to laude his contribution to the peace process but that does not take away from his illegal activity. They would be best to say nothing again imo.
I never fail to be taken aback by the hypocrisy of some posters who view the IRA campaign of the '70's and '80's as some how different from the activities of the old IRA in the early years of the last century. There is no difference. Catholics were discriminated against in the North, left in poverty denied houses and jobs some took up protest and were brutalised by the Unionist Government and the RUC some took up arms. Now you can debate the rights and wrongs of this situation but if you do so you must apply some balance. Rossfan's arguments are lost in the vehemence of his totally anti SF agenda and whitewashing of history. As with all conflicts bad things were done and not just by the Provos and not just in the '70's and '80's. I recommend you read Bonfires on the Hillsides by the late James Kelly, it will open some eyes here that are welded shut. If Slab rightly goes down so to must the assorted bankers and charlatans who collapsed the Irish economy with there brown bags and gombeenism.

Anybody want to outline Slab's contribution to the peace process?
I think it was covered here already. He took over as head of PIRA Army council at at the time of the RIRA breakaway and managed to keep South Armagh on board with the ceasefire. A not inconsiderable achievement, though it does not excuse racketeering.

Phew. For a moment I though he was some terrorist involve in murders. I now see he is mediator and post conflict guru.

He is a nasty shit. Prision is the place for him.


Who is he accused of murdering?

Who has accused him of murdering people?

Testimony was heard during his trial that he decided who lived and died in the border region.

As alleged IRA chief of staff, those who crossed the IRA in the region didn't fair out too well - just ask Paul Quinn or Eamonn Collins
Not sure alleged is required there. He had the power to ensure a lot of hawks toed the line.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 09, 2016, 08:41:00 AM
Ger Canning's done well to survive 25 posts.

Here y'are, Ger.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2016, 11:27:42 AM
Is Ger a Shinner? :o
Explains a lot..... ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2016, 10:31:58 AM
Any of the usual suspects got anything to say about Belfast Councillor Beattie?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 14, 2016, 11:02:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2016, 10:31:58 AM
Any of the usual suspects got anything to say about Belfast Councillor Beattie?
Have you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2016, 11:13:27 AM
I presume if he's found to have been cheating the system the purer than pure SF party will get rid of him, condemn etc... Like they did with that Murphy chap  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 31, 2016, 10:06:21 PM
Michelle Gildernew fails to be selected by SF members to stand for F&ST assembly elections


Bit of a shocker ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on January 31, 2016, 10:22:02 PM
Odd decision,  3 men,  all from Fermanagh,  no women,  nobody from South Tyrone. I think they must be going to move Michelle Gildernew to Mid Ulster.  But it is a very unbalanced ticket in a constituency where it will be a tight battle to hang on to their 3rd seat
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on January 31, 2016, 11:50:07 PM
Mcguinness is probably in his pit at the minute cos he's for Belfast in the morning but he ll get a bit of a shock when he hears this!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on February 01, 2016, 11:33:47 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on January 31, 2016, 10:22:02 PM
Odd decision,  3 men,  all from Fermanagh,  no women,  nobody from South Tyrone. I think they must be going to move Michelle Gildernew to Mid Ulster.  But it is a very unbalanced ticket in a constituency where it will be a tight battle to hang on to their 3rd seat
Is it also a bit unbalanced in terms of the Tyrone / Fermanagh side of things. As well as the gender balance Gildernew and McGahan were both from the east of the constituency. Would they both now be seen as Mid-Ulster as the old Dungannon council area seems to be split between 2 constituencies?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 02, 2016, 08:56:09 AM
unbelievable that Flanagan is in and Gildernew is out. She must have really pissed off someone. To me as a nationalist voter this puts a huge question mark over SF when they choose someone who continually puts his size 10's in his gob over a capable woman like Gildernew.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on February 02, 2016, 09:18:00 AM
I think it is more to do with Gildernews health than anything else.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 02, 2016, 09:38:45 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 02, 2016, 09:18:00 AM
I think it is more to do with Gildernews health than anything else.
I think given her reaction her health seems fine. Still wouldn't excuse persisting with Flanagan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2016, 10:56:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 02, 2016, 08:56:09 AM
unbelievable that Flanagan is in and Gildernew is out. She must have really pissed off someone. To me as a nationalist voter this puts a huge question mark over SF when they choose someone who continually puts his size 10's in his gob over a capable woman like Gildernew.

I've always thought Gildernew one of the most capable, and Flanagan is a bollix. I suspect Gildernew has sometimes extended her capable analysis to some things some people would prefer not to be analysed and pissed people off. The other issue here is that the card carrying "activists" in this selection process may not be exactly representative of nationalist society.

Perhaps Gildernew has some health problems, but Flanagan has shown a complete lack of judgement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 02, 2016, 11:01:43 AM
Presumably unquestioning loyalty to " good republicans/ism" trumps intelligence and ability in that outfit.
;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 02, 2016, 11:12:28 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2016, 11:01:43 AM
Presumably unquestioning loyalty to " good republicans/ism" trumps intelligence and ability in that outfit.
;)
I wouldn't have thought so, them and the DUP usually quite ruthless when it comes to suffering fools. Flanagan seems to be an exception. Both Conor Murphy and Gildernew were side-lined for a while over the NI water thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: winghalfun on February 02, 2016, 11:41:44 AM
Quoteunbelievable that Flanagan is in and Gildernew is out. She must have really pissed off someone. To me as a nationalist voter this puts a huge question mark over SF when they choose someone who continually puts his size 10's in his gob over a capable woman like Gildernew

Maybe it's a case of fighting fire with fire.  I would say that Phil Flanagan, despite his many faux pas. would appeal to the more hard-line republicans of Fermanagh and South Tyrone.

No one should kid themselves that even a modicum of moderate unionism exists in this area and perhaps the people are sick of seeing Arlene walking around Tesco's with her union jack shopping bag and that stupid royal brooch that she never leaves off, sick of the unionist pacts and sick of the hard-line unionist representatives.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2016, 12:06:58 PM
Quote from: winghalfun on February 02, 2016, 11:41:44 AM
No one should kid themselves that even a modicum of moderate unionism exists in this area and perhaps the people are sick of seeing Arlene walking around Tesco's with her union jack shopping bag and that stupid royal brooch that she never leaves off, sick of the unionist pacts and sick of the hard-line unionist representatives.

Sick of these people indeed, but how can they be opposed?  I can certainly imagine Gildernew in Stormont as a First/Deputy First Minister, and someone that might advance the nationalist cause, but Flanagan would be an embarrassment. Flanagan reminds me of certain GAA players who will "stand up for themselves", but who just get sent off and and who are ultimately a scourge. What is needed is a player that goes up and scores at the other end, not one slabbering. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 02, 2016, 12:20:22 PM
Quote from: winghalfun on February 02, 2016, 11:41:44 AM
Quoteunbelievable that Flanagan is in and Gildernew is out. She must have really pissed off someone. To me as a nationalist voter this puts a huge question mark over SF when they choose someone who continually puts his size 10's in his gob over a capable woman like Gildernew

Maybe it's a case of fighting fire with fire.  I would say that Phil Flanagan, despite his many faux pas. would appeal to the more hard-line republicans of Fermanagh and South Tyrone.

No one should kid themselves that even a modicum of moderate unionism exists in this area and perhaps the people are sick of seeing Arlene walking around Tesco's with her union jack shopping bag and that stupid royal brooch that she never leaves off, sick of the unionist pacts and sick of the hard-line unionist representatives.
When you signed up to the GFA you signed up to her right to do so, whether you like it or not. Actually it says more about the intransigence and insecurity of the PUL community than it does about anything else. I don't object to anyone having hard line views I do object to stupidity in political leadership.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: winghalfun on February 02, 2016, 12:23:22 PM
QuoteSick of these people indeed, but how can they be opposed?  I can certainly imagine Gildernew in Stormont as a First/Deputy First Minister, and someone that might advance the nationalist cause, but Flanagan would be an embarrassment. Flanagan reminds me of certain GAA players who will "stand up for themselves", but who just get sent off and and who are ultimately a scourge. What is needed is a player that goes up and scores at the other end, not one slabbering.

I would agree entirely with this Armaghniac but perhaps unfortunately in this case needs must and if Michelle ran in this constituency again I feel she might struggle to get enough voters out.

Phil says, albeit in a very clumsy and politically incorrect way what a lot of Sinn Fein voters in Fermanagh are thinking.

Is this good enough to progress the nationalist cause on the wider political scale? - probably not.

But hey, get him in and then try and tame him. Bit like Randle Patrick "Mac" McMurphy  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on February 02, 2016, 12:24:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2016, 12:06:58 PM
Quote from: winghalfun on February 02, 2016, 11:41:44 AM
No one should kid themselves that even a modicum of moderate unionism exists in this area and perhaps the people are sick of seeing Arlene walking around Tesco's with her union jack shopping bag and that stupid royal brooch that she never leaves off, sick of the unionist pacts and sick of the hard-line unionist representatives.

Sick of these people indeed, but how can they be opposed?  I can certainly imagine Gildernew in Stormont as a First/Deputy First Minister, and someone that might advance the nationalist cause, but Flanagan would be an embarrassment. Flanagan reminds me of certain GAA players who will "stand up for themselves", but who just get sent off and and who are ultimately a scourge. What is needed is a player that goes up and scores at the other end, not one slabbering.

Agree with the "stand up for themselves" analogy. Flanagan seems to have a serious issue with intellect. Maybe he will "represent" a section of republicanism/nationalism in the sense that he shares the same view as those voters, But the representation required from a polictical representative is a bit more than that.

As for  winghalfun's comment in respect of there not even being a modicum of moderate unionism in the area? What is this based upon?

I know the area well. There is a strong element of ordinary decent folk who would coincidentally vote to maintain the union if asked. Too many don't vote in MLA or Westminster elections. Some do vote for unified unionist candidates in a General Election, specifically to keep SF out. What is wrong of that? Don't assume that the same voters would vote the same way to keep SDLP out or a catholic voting on another ticket? There will be voters in the south who do and will vote a certain way to keep SF out.

West of the Bann there is not a lot of centrist options 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: winghalfback on February 02, 2016, 01:14:02 PM
I would hazard a guess Michelle gildernew will be running in FST. The fact it's 3 men all from Fermanagh tells me sf will want a woman standing and a Tyrone person standing too. Michelle fits this bill.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2016, 02:05:51 PM
Quote from: winghalfback on February 02, 2016, 01:14:02 PM
I would hazard a guess Michelle gildernew will be running in FST. The fact it's 3 men all from Fermanagh tells me sf will want a woman standing and a Tyrone person standing too. Michelle fits this bill.

I suspect this is a stunt, a bit like FG not selecting Richard Bruton in Dublin. Make sure to select the local hack, who HQ don't approve of, and leave off the "big" candidate knowing that HQ will reinsert the "big" candidate and the local will still get his run out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 02, 2016, 09:09:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2016, 02:05:51 PM
Quote from: winghalfback on February 02, 2016, 01:14:02 PM
I would hazard a guess Michelle gildernew will be running in FST. The fact it's 3 men all from Fermanagh tells me sf will want a woman standing and a Tyrone person standing too. Michelle fits this bill.

I suspect this is a stunt, a bit like FG not selecting Richard Bruton in Dublin. Make sure to select the local hack, who HQ don't approve of, and leave off the "big" candidate knowing that HQ will reinsert the "big" candidate and the local will still get his run out.
Flanagan took the last seat at the last election 62 votes ahead of the SDLP. Even the slightest drop in SF's vote or the slightest increase in the SDLP vote would see that seat back to the SDLP, and no doubt it's a seat they're targeting. Selecting Flanagan rather than Gildernew has weakened SF here, but to add Gildernew as a fourth candidate would surely hand that seat back to the SDLP, no?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 02, 2016, 09:15:48 PM
Quote from: winghalfun on February 02, 2016, 11:41:44 AM
No one should kid themselves that even a modicum of moderate unionism exists in this area and perhaps the people are sick of seeing Arlene walking around Tesco's with her union jack shopping bag and that stupid royal brooch that she never leaves off, sick of the unionist pacts and sick of the hard-line unionist representatives.
Absolute and total nonsense. There are many moderate unionists in this constituency. There are many unionists who can't abide SF, many, for example, with very vivid memories of what happened in Enniskillen in 1987, but that doesn't in itself make them 'extreme'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 02, 2016, 09:37:52 PM
SF should ban Flanagan from all forms of social media. He doesn't seem to be the brightest lad about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 02, 2016, 09:42:35 PM
Michelle Gildernew... would you? :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on February 02, 2016, 10:23:53 PM
Very bad move by the party here on this. It's obvious there is a problem, and maybe time will reveal.
However, she remains one of their most articulate and well liked politicians. She carries a lot of respect
from a lot of people.

Before Christmas she was selected to run for Stormont. Phil was deselected, and in my opinion rightly so.
Then Phil goes to HQ and they order another vote. This time, Bromwyn McGahan also runs for selection.
She had replaced Michelle in Stormont, and before Christmas ruled herself out of the selection process and said
she wouldn't stand again. Why did she run this time, and coming from the same area as Michelle, did she split
the vote? Or did a whispering campaign go around and people were quietly told how to vote? How did we end
up with 3 Fermanagh men and no one from Tyrone?

As previously stated, Michelle would be 1st or Deputy 1st Minister material. The same can't be said for many in the
party in Stormont. She would have been a natural successor to McGuinness, but somehow she has been sidelined.
I know Adams thinks very highly of her, so the resentment could be coming from up the ladder in Stormont.

While I can't see it happen, I would like to see her run as an independent for this area in the election.
She would have no problem getting a seat, and with a bit of luck take Phils seat !!

I have a lot of time and respect for Michelle, and I hope she is back on the political scene soon as we could do with her.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2016, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 02, 2016, 12:24:30 PM
West of the Bann there is not a lot of centrist options

Sure we sent you a Unionist candidate from Cross', a GAA supporter like all Cross people, and you wouldn't vote for him.

Quote from: Maguire01 on February 02, 2016, 09:09:33 PM
Flanagan took the last seat at the last election 62 votes ahead of the SDLP. Even the slightest drop in SF's vote or the slightest increase in the SDLP vote would see that seat back to the SDLP, and no doubt it's a seat they're targeting. Selecting Flanagan rather than Gildernew has weakened SF here, but to add Gildernew as a fourth candidate would surely hand that seat back to the SDLP, no?

Provided there is transfer discipline it doesn't follow that the seat would be lost, but it could be at risk, I suppose. Gildernew might get a vote or two that might otherwise go to the SDLP, Flanagan would not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 02, 2016, 11:10:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2016, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 02, 2016, 12:24:30 PM
West of the Bann there is not a lot of centrist options

Sure we sent you a Unionist candidate from Cross', a GAA supporter like all Cross people, and you wouldn't vote for him.

Quote from: Maguire01 on February 02, 2016, 09:09:33 PM
Flanagan took the last seat at the last election 62 votes ahead of the SDLP. Even the slightest drop in SF's vote or the slightest increase in the SDLP vote would see that seat back to the SDLP, and no doubt it's a seat they're targeting. Selecting Flanagan rather than Gildernew has weakened SF here, but to add Gildernew as a fourth candidate would surely hand that seat back to the SDLP, no?

Provided there is transfer discipline it doesn't follow that the seat would be lost, but it could be at risk, I suppose. Gildernew might get a vote or two that might otherwise go to the SDLP, Flanagan would not.
It would have to be very disciplined with a margin that tight, not to mention the lack of geographic spread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on February 04, 2016, 12:51:28 AM
Phil to pay nearly £50,000 in compensation plus cost to Tom Elliott

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-mla-phil-flanagan-to-pay-uups-tom-elliott-almost-50k-in-compensation-for-falsely-implying-he-shot-people-34420324.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on February 04, 2016, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on February 04, 2016, 12:51:28 AM
Phil to pay nearly £50,000 in compensation plus cost to Tom Elliott

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-mla-phil-flanagan-to-pay-uups-tom-elliott-almost-50k-in-compensation-for-falsely-implying-he-shot-people-34420324.html

Well he is actually trying to get the Stormont insurance company to pay for it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on February 04, 2016, 09:37:44 AM
To be fair to the boy from Fermanagh he gives unique soundbites.

Most SF reps are dull as ditchwater and regimental.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 04, 2016, 11:46:36 AM
Have SF removed the picture of Ireland from their election posters or was this done previously and I didn't notice?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on February 04, 2016, 12:13:50 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 04, 2016, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on February 04, 2016, 12:51:28 AM
Phil to pay nearly £50,000 in compensation plus cost to Tom Elliott

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-mla-phil-flanagan-to-pay-uups-tom-elliott-almost-50k-in-compensation-for-falsely-implying-he-shot-people-34420324.html

Well he is actually trying to get the Stormont insurance company to pay for it.

Serious question, will he be expected to pay that himself or will he get party help?

Or is it one of those things that never gets paid?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on February 04, 2016, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 04, 2016, 12:13:50 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 04, 2016, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on February 04, 2016, 12:51:28 AM
Phil to pay nearly £50,000 in compensation plus cost to Tom Elliott

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-mla-phil-flanagan-to-pay-uups-tom-elliott-almost-50k-in-compensation-for-falsely-implying-he-shot-people-34420324.html

Well he is actually trying to get the Stormont insurance company to pay for it.

Serious question, will he be expected to pay that himself or will he get party help?

Or is it one of those things that never gets paid?

Sure he wouldn't have £48k spare, earning the average industrial wage
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 07, 2016, 08:53:03 PM
Mary Lou's campaign make a Boob!
(http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.2525892.1454870004!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg)

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oops-mary-lou-mcdonald-leaflet-misspells-bobby-sands-1.2525893

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mayo4Sam on February 09, 2016, 04:16:46 PM
So apparently Gerry was misunderstood, he didn't mean there was no ganglands, although it was Mary Lou that told us that.
And we don't need the special criminal court, probably so his buddies can go back to intimidating juries

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/mcdonald-says-adams-remarks-on-gangland-were-misunderstood-34435886.html


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/adams-claims-special-criminal-court-doesn-t-work-1.2525983
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 09, 2016, 05:46:38 PM
Crime and justice is not where SF wants this election campaign to be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 09, 2016, 05:52:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 09, 2016, 05:46:38 PM
Crime and justice is not where SF wants this election campaign to be.
:D :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 09, 2016, 10:43:00 PM
BBC reporting that SF will add a fourth candidate to FST.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StephenC on February 10, 2016, 10:10:12 PM
So Sinn Fein want to repeal the offences against the state act? How in under sweet Jesus does that make any sense?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2016, 11:31:59 PM
 Probably because Slab told them to??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StephenC on February 11, 2016, 08:23:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2016, 11:31:59 PM
Probably because Slab told them to??

True. Got to keep the cronies happy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: cadhlancian on February 11, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
Some amount of west Brits on this thread... Jesus Christ..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on February 11, 2016, 10:43:51 AM
Quote from: cadhlancian on February 11, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
Some amount of west Brits on this thread... Jesus Christ..
Yeah I suppose anyone who isn't blindly loyal to the SF cult is a 'West Brit'. Jesus Christ...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2016, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 11, 2016, 10:43:51 AM
Quote from: cadhlancian on February 11, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
Some amount of west Brits on this thread... Jesus Christ..
Yeah I suppose anyone who isn't blindly loyal to the SF cult is a 'West Brit'. Jesus Christ...
God help the poor brainwashed eejits.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 11, 2016, 12:03:13 PM
It is abundantly clear that there's a running theme in upcoming elections where people just throw as much mud as possible at SF. Yes they aren't without fault (clearly) but it's as if you blissfully forget the politicians morons who f**king ruined this country as well as the people you currently have in charge who are making the working man pay for the mess that was left.

How funny was it when Inda was hiding from Adams yesterday  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Canalman on February 11, 2016, 12:06:40 PM
Fianna Fáil I would imagine are laughing themselves silly at this onslaught on SF. Cannot for the life of me understand why FG are launching into SF at every opportunity when there is zero chance of them losing votes to SF. Labour have to do so as do FF , fair enough.

It is imo FF they should be targetting.

Very odd.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on February 11, 2016, 12:25:19 PM
Maybe we have become so cynical about politics that we can't see sincerity for what it is. And make no mistake, FG are being sincere in their hate for the Shinners. On a more Machiavellian level, putting the fear of God into the core vote is a necessary part of any strategy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Canalman on February 11, 2016, 12:43:53 PM
Fair enough point Deiseach but I think everyone should by now be in numbercrunching and electioneering mode.

FG have their core vote of c30% with a possible extra 10% to be gotten from FF type voters. Imo anyway it is that 10% vote that they should be targetting. ............... in other words putting the boot into FF and not SF.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on February 11, 2016, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: Canalman on February 11, 2016, 12:43:53 PM
Fair enough point Deiseach but I think everyone should by now be in numbercrunching and electioneering mode.

FG have their core vote of c30% with a possible extra 10% to be gotten from FF type voters. Imo anyway it is that 10% vote that they should be targetting. ............... in other words putting the boot into FF and not SF.

Maybe they are laying off their most likely coalition partners!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on February 11, 2016, 01:30:53 PM
Quote from: cadhlancian on February 11, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
Some amount of west Brits on this board... Jesus Christ..

Fixed that for you
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on February 11, 2016, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 11, 2016, 01:30:53 PM
Quote from: cadhlancian on February 11, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
Some amount of west Brits on this board... Jesus Christ..

Fixed that for you

Agreed.

You'd nearly think it is a Blueshirt forum with the denial and spin they put forward to everything.

(http://media.irishcentral.com/images/FT5S+Blueshirt+group+hands+salut.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on February 11, 2016, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: Canalman on February 11, 2016, 12:43:53 PM
Fair enough point Deiseach but I think everyone should by now be in numbercrunching and electioneering mode.

FG have their core vote of c30% with a possible extra 10% to be gotten from FF type voters. Imo anyway it is that 10% vote that they should be targetting. ............... in other words putting the boot into FF and not SF.

I know what you mean. Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it's sensible. The way the (S)Indo and the Irish Times engage in a full court press against SF is only likely to drive the floating voter towards them, and FG's manner is much the same.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 11, 2016, 08:07:58 PM
Quote from: Canalman on February 11, 2016, 12:06:40 PM
Cannot for the life of me understand why FG are launching into SF at every opportunity when there is zero chance of them losing votes to SF. Labour have to do so as do FF , fair enough.

It is imo FF they should be targetting.

Very odd.
It's not odd at all. It's like in the Assembly elections when you'll see SF and the DUP going for each other, and there's no prospect of votes going from one to the other there either. It's to motivate their own voters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on February 11, 2016, 11:32:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on February 11, 2016, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 11, 2016, 01:30:53 PM
Quote from: cadhlancian on February 11, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
Some amount of west Brits on this board... Jesus Christ..

Fixed that for you

Agreed.

You'd nearly think it is a Blueshirt forum with the denial and spin they put forward to everything.

(http://media.irishcentral.com/images/FT5S+Blueshirt+group+hands+salut.jpg)


Destro

I am not great at this internetting thingy .  Can you post a picture of a certain statue in Fairview Park ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on February 12, 2016, 12:49:51 AM
Quote from: ashman on February 11, 2016, 11:32:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on February 11, 2016, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 11, 2016, 01:30:53 PM
Quote from: cadhlancian on February 11, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
Some amount of west Brits on this board... Jesus Christ..

Fixed that for you

Agreed.

You'd nearly think it is a Blueshirt forum with the denial and spin they put forward to everything.

(http://media.irishcentral.com/images/FT5S+Blueshirt+group+hands+salut.jpg)


Destro

I am not great at this internetting thingy .  Can you post a picture of a certain statue in Fairview Park ?

You want me to throw up a picture of vandalised statue to contrast it with a fascist gathering of the founding fathers of Fine Gael?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NetNitrate on February 12, 2016, 03:41:00 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on February 12, 2016, 12:49:51 AM
Quote from: ashman on February 11, 2016, 11:32:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on February 11, 2016, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 11, 2016, 01:30:53 PM
Quote from: cadhlancian on February 11, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
Some amount of west Brits on this board... Jesus Christ..

Fixed that for you

Agreed.

You'd nearly think it is a Blueshirt forum with the denial and spin they put forward to everything.

(http://media.irishcentral.com/images/FT5S+Blueshirt+group+hands+salut.jpg)


Destro

I am not great at this internetting thingy .  Can you post a picture of a certain statue in Fairview Park ?

You want me to throw up a picture of vandalised statue to contrast it with a fascist gathering of the founding fathers of Fine Gael?

Quite a selective and edited view there.

Eoin O'Duffy wore many hats: he was a TD for Sinn Fein, Chief of Staff of IRA, leading figure in GAA, commissioner of newly formed Garda Siochana, leader of the Blueshirts, early leader of Fine Gael who soon distanced themselves from him and he went on to  launch the National Corporate Party, Irish Brigade, etc. He was a lot longer in Sinn Fein and the other parties than he was in Fine Gael (1 year). Sean Russell too was Chief of Staff of the IRA and he admired Hitler as O'Duffy did Mussolini/Franco. It could be argued that their fascism came from their Catholic Republican roots. There's always been a strong streak of fascism in that rather dark combination of Catholicism and Republicanism. The covering up of sexual abuse is yet another manifestation of that in modern day Republicanism.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on February 12, 2016, 09:16:27 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on February 12, 2016, 03:41:00 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on February 12, 2016, 12:49:51 AM
Quote from: ashman on February 11, 2016, 11:32:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on February 11, 2016, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 11, 2016, 01:30:53 PM
Quote from: cadhlancian on February 11, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
Some amount of west Brits on this board... Jesus Christ..

Fixed that for you

Agreed.

You'd nearly think it is a Blueshirt forum with the denial and spin they put forward to everything.

(http://media.irishcentral.com/images/FT5S+Blueshirt+group+hands+salut.jpg)


Destro

I am not great at this internetting thingy .  Can you post a picture of a certain statue in Fairview Park ?

You want me to throw up a picture of vandalised statue to contrast it with a fascist gathering of the founding fathers of Fine Gael?

Quite a selective and edited view there.

Eoin O'Duffy wore many hats: he was a TD for Sinn Fein, Chief of Staff of IRA, leading figure in GAA, commissioner of newly formed Garda Siochana, leader of the Blueshirts, early leader of Fine Gael who soon distanced themselves from him and he went on to  launch the National Corporate Party, Irish Brigade, etc. He was a lot longer in Sinn Fein and the other parties than he was in Fine Gael (1 year). Sean Russell too was Chief of Staff of the IRA and he admired Hitler as O'Duffy did Mussolini/Franco. It could be argued that their fascism came from their Catholic Republican roots. There's always been a strong streak of fascism in that rather dark combination of Catholicism and Republicanism. The covering up of sexual abuse is yet another manifestation of that in modern day Republicanism.

Not selective at all. O'Duffy was a founding father of Fine Gael and The Blueshirts are intrinsically linked with Fine Gael.

Sean Russell looked for help from the Germans during WW2 when they were at war with a common enemy. De Valera also sympathised with the Germans on the death of Hitler.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on February 12, 2016, 10:58:41 AM
What's the next statement in this logical sequence?

Sean Russell looked for help from the Germans during WW2 when they were at war with a common enemy.
De Valera also sympathised with the Germans on the death of Hitler.

I went to Germany on holidays one time?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on February 12, 2016, 11:02:45 AM
Enda Kenny went to a beer hall in Munich once.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on February 12, 2016, 01:41:14 PM
I see aul Slab's getting home tonight for another while at least!
Has anybody on the board ever had any dealings with this guy?

Does he go to any GAA matches ? Is he good craic??? Etc etc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on February 12, 2016, 01:49:00 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 12, 2016, 10:58:41 AM
What's the next statement in this logical sequence?

Sean Russell looked for help from the Germans during WW2 when they were at war with a common enemy.
De Valera also sympathised with the Germans on the death of Hitler.

I went to Germany on holidays one time?

I thought it was obvious.

Openly forming a movement to embrace fascism is a bit different to seeking assistance from  the enemy of a common enemy who happen to be fascist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 12, 2016, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on February 12, 2016, 01:41:14 PM
I see aul Slab's getting home tonight for another while at least!
Has anybody on the board ever had any dealings with this guy?

Does he go to any GAA matches ? Is he good craic??? Etc etc
All I know is Crossmaglen started wining championships after the ceasefire  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 12, 2016, 02:01:27 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on February 12, 2016, 01:49:00 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 12, 2016, 10:58:41 AM
What's the next statement in this logical sequence?

Sean Russell looked for help from the Germans during WW2 when they were at war with a common enemy.
De Valera also sympathised with the Germans on the death of Hitler.

I went to Germany on holidays one time?

I thought it was obvious.

Openly forming a movement to embrace fascism is a bit different to seeking assistance from  the enemy of a common enemy who happen to be fascist.
Fascism was quite an in thing in Europe mid 30s.
By 1940 seeking a Nazi invasion wasn't quite so in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2016, 06:37:45 PM
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/rightcol/campaign-weary-mary-lou-throws-a-wobble-over-her-dear-friend-slab-34451351.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/rightcol/campaign-weary-mary-lou-throws-a-wobble-over-her-dear-friend-slab-34451351.html)

Mary Lou McDonald
Spare a thought for poor old Mary Lou McDonald who is beginning to feel the strain of the seven-day-a-week campaign trail.

Yesterday, while launching Sinn Fein's 'charter for young people', the clearly overworked politician threw an unprecedented wobble over a simple question about her dear friend and tax cheat, Thomas 'Slab' Murphy.

Ms McDonald, who many believe could be the next leader of SF, was asked by the Sunday Independent if she hoped Slab, the good republican that she believes him to be, would make time to vote for Gerry Adams in Louth before his sentencing trial on February 26.

But Ms McDonald - who, remember, believes the former IRA commander described as a "mass murderer" in a recent BBC documentary is a "very nice man" - dodged the question and resorted to personal insults.

"I think in the long litany of really, really stupid questions that is now the prize winner," she said.

Now, now Mary Lou, I know you may be tired of having to take responsibility for the choices your party made in the past, but if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound.

Nonetheless, curiosity got the better of me and I asked why is it a stupid question?

"Who [someone] votes for is entirely a matter for themselves," she said.

OK, but surely you would hope a 'good republican' like Slab would vote Sinn Fein?

"Philip, it's 11 o'clock, or is it 11 o'clock yet, on a Saturday morning," the election-weary Shinner whinged.

Bless. We're not even halfway through the campaign and 11am is hardly the crack of dawn, but Ms McDonald seems to be feeling the pace catch up with her.

Even before the press conference, the worn-out politician seemed to forget what constituency Sinn Fein's Cork South Central candidate Donnchadh O Laoghaire represents.

Anyway, she went on to say: "Whoever anyone votes for is their own business".

And then added this: "Obviously, I want the maximum number of people to vote for Sinn Fein and the courts, not the Sunday Independent and not you Philip, and not I, will deal with all the matters pertaining to Tom Murphy."

I pointed out to her they've already convicted Slab.

"Well, they haven't concluded their business and I think you should have a bit of respect for the judiciary," McDonald responded

A Sinn Fein media chief then interjected and shut down any questioning on whether the party can count on a number one first preference vote from Slab after all the support they've shown him during his recent troubles.

But returning to Ms McDonald and her plea to show a "bit of respect for the judiciary" - the judiciary in this case being the three judges presiding in the Special Criminal Court on the case of Slab and his €190,000 unpaid tax bill.

The three judges - Justice Paul Butler, Judge John O'Hagan and Judge Ann Ryan - are currently mulling over the intricacies of the complicated tax evasion case before agreeing on a sentence.

They have already decided he is guilty.

It is this same court, which McDonald insisted we should respect, that Sinn Fein wants to do away with.

Gerry Adams, her boss, plans to abolish the entire Special Criminal Court, along with a central piece of legislation which protects us from criminals and terrorists.

Sinn Fein will rip up the Offences Against the State Act and throw it out if in Government.

It has yet to tell us what it will replace it with but Adams is understood to have searched 'what do I replace the special criminal court with' in Google.

Now, I'm not suggesting Ms McDonald does not agree with her party leader. Heaven forbid.

But demanding that everyone else respects the court you intend on abolishing is a bit rich even by her own high, privately schooled, standard.

It seems to have escaped her memory that the party line is to rattle on about the injustice of non-jury courts without referring to the fear experienced by jurors forced to adjudicate in cases of ruthless criminals and terrorists.

Only yesterday, former defence minister Willie O'Dea told how constituents confided in him that they would prefer to take their own lives rather than serve as jurors on the trials of vicious and lawless criminal gangs in Limerick.

"Everybody in Limerick, from one end to the other, were absolutely terrified out of their wits, of serving on a jury, whether those people would be able to identify them," he said.

These gangs, who had absolutely no respect for the judiciary or any form of law and order for that matter, were eventually dealt with through the hard work of the gardai and the Special Criminal Court.

The judges in these cases and the ones involved in sentencing Slab abide by the same rule of law used in jury trials.

Perhaps after a good nights' sleep - something not enjoyed by jurors involved in gangland trials - a rested Mary Lou will be better equipped to deal with questions on her party's associations.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: The Stallion on February 16, 2016, 07:44:07 PM
What an awful, snide article. The person who penned it comes across very badly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on February 16, 2016, 08:27:30 PM
Better if Sinn Fein stopped sticking up for him!
He was found guilty of tax evasion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on February 16, 2016, 08:43:48 PM
Regardless of your opinion of Sinn Fein, and I am not a supporter, this article is petty and journalism at its absolute lowest. I actually don't think I have read a worse article than this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on February 16, 2016, 09:11:48 PM
Perhaps Muppet didn't spot the  utter stupidity  evident in the article,  the journalist  putting an inane  question to a candidate and after the candidate informs  the journalist of just how inane the question is, the journalist accuses the candidate of throwing a Muppet,  sorry  throwing a wobbly. And we have an article in the national paper complete with a picture of the candidate doing her best to look like Muppet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2016, 10:34:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2016, 09:11:48 PM
Perhaps Muppet didn't spot the  utter stupidity  evident in the article,  the journalist  putting an inane  question to a candidate and after the candidate informs  the journalist of just how inane the question is, the journalist accuses the candidate of throwing a Muppet,  sorry  throwing a wobbly. And we have an article in the national paper complete with a picture of the candidate doing her best to look like Muppet.

I     see      , blame       the journalist      ,    the paper     and        even  the         person        who simply        posted up       the link  .

And      insert    extras    spaces      for     some     reason   .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Never beat the deeler on February 17, 2016, 08:10:34 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on February 16, 2016, 08:27:30 PM
Better if Sinn Fein stopped sticking up for him!
He was found guilty of tax evasion.


I agree with this sentiment,  but it does not stop me from agreeing with the following:

Quote from: The Stallion on February 16, 2016, 07:44:07 PM
What an awful, snide article. The person who penned it comes across very badly.

Ridiculous, petty, personal, unbalanced article from the Independent (what would you expect), and the fact it is receiving a response from me is saying a lot considering I'm living in Australia, home of gutter journalism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on February 17, 2016, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2016, 10:34:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2016, 09:11:48 PM
Perhaps Muppet didn't spot the  utter stupidity  evident in the article,  the journalist  putting an inane  question to a candidate and after the candidate informs  the journalist of just how inane the question is, the journalist accuses the candidate of throwing a Muppet,  sorry  throwing a wobbly. And we have an article in the national paper complete with a picture of the candidate doing her best to look like Muppet.

I     see      , blame       the journalist      ,    the paper     and        even  the         person        who simply        posted up       the link  .

And      insert    extras    spaces      for     some     reason   .

Well, the journalist did write the piece
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on February 17, 2016, 09:50:29 AM
The revolution is here. You have the honour of putting Shinners and (S)Indo hacks against the wall. Who do you shoot first?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on February 17, 2016, 10:11:10 AM
Put the Shinners in front of the Shacks - two for one bullet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Longshanks on February 17, 2016, 10:52:51 AM
I know this is a major IF and long shot all around but if Sinn Fein won the majority party down south and up here in the next ten years, what would that mean? surely a push at all Ireland or is that being silly?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on February 17, 2016, 10:53:31 AM
Article is a bit OTT alright.

Ammunition has been supplied by the Shinners through harping on about the Special Criminal Court.  They should not have put it on the agenda.  No one wants to have it and we all understand trial by jury of our peers as a principle.  That said, everyone also understands jury intimidation.  Unfortunately criminals and terrorists have enough of resources at their disposal to get at jurors (and indeed witness, remember the Gerry McCabe murder trial).  Gerry and his gang should have said nothing about Special Criminal Court and witness/jury protection programs.

Also Mary Lou knows the Indo has it in for Shinners so she shouldn't rise.  "Respect for the judiciary" is more ammunition for their opponents.  Her party has as good as said the judiciary involved here are incapable of fairness.

Slab, like other criminals was cute enough for long enough and didn't get caught.  Then the cops put CAB onto the money trail, that's what they do.  He got caught out, needs to face up and his comrades in Sinn Féin needed to say less about it but didn't.

/Jim
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on February 17, 2016, 10:55:15 AM
Quote from: deiseach on February 17, 2016, 09:50:29 AM
The revolution is here. You have the honour of putting Shinners and (S)Indo hacks against the wall. Who do you shoot first?

The (S)Indo really struggle to be objective when it comes to the Shinners and can't resist the petty digs and jibes and that's as long as I can remember, from Conor Cruise O'Brien, Ruth Dudley Edwards, Myers and whoever.

Can't say I read it anymore, but back in the day they were one of the few papers who'd half decent GAA coverage. Thank god for the tinternet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 10:57:32 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 17, 2016, 10:11:10 AM
Put the Shinners in front of the Shacks - two for one bullet.

;D
Takes a Meath buck to know how to deal with pains in the hole!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on February 17, 2016, 10:59:41 AM
Quote from: Longshanks on February 17, 2016, 10:52:51 AM
I know this is a major IF and long shot all around but if Sinn Fein won the majority party down south and up here in the next ten years, what would that mean? surely a push at all Ireland or is that being silly?

They won't win a majority in either jurisdiction but if they did I presume they would push for it.  However they can only push for referendum in each state or else:


If they are in power in Republic after next election it will be in some kind of hotch potch alliance.  I wouldn't see that lasting a year.  A November budget that stays within EU Budgetary rules would likely be beyond such a grouping. 

/Jim



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on February 17, 2016, 11:01:19 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 17, 2016, 10:11:10 AM
Put the Shinners in front of the Shacks - two for one bullet.

Would you return the bodies to the families or bury them in the midlands?

/Jim
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: deiseach on February 17, 2016, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 17, 2016, 09:50:29 AM
The revolution is here. You have the honour of putting Shinners and (S)Indo hacks against the wall. Who do you shoot first?

For those who have not fallen asleep, the answer is: the Shinners. This is because you must always put duty before pleasure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on February 17, 2016, 04:22:45 PM
I would say the Sindo hacks. Twice.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 08:37:42 PM
They only have around 40 candidates so 25-30 seats would be a very good return.
Obviously they will be hoping FG and FF form a grand coalition so they can be the only real opposition and prepare for the next election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 26, 2016, 11:56:20 AM
Not sure if SF have gone away, but Slab is going away for a few months
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/tax-cheat-thomas-slab-murphy-sentenced-to-18-months-in-jail-34488668.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 26, 2016, 01:28:24 PM
So we still get no money from him?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 26, 2016, 01:35:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 26, 2016, 11:56:20 AM
Not sure if SF have gone away, but Slab is going away for a few months
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/tax-cheat-thomas-slab-murphy-sentenced-to-18-months-in-jail-34488668.html
Given her own past associations Maria Cahill has a neck on her. Still good to see that no one is above the law even Slab.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 26, 2016, 01:42:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2016, 01:28:24 PM
So we still get no money from him?

There was a settlement of amounts due in the past.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on February 26, 2016, 02:01:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 26, 2016, 01:35:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 26, 2016, 11:56:20 AM
Not sure if SF have gone away, but Slab is going away for a few months
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/tax-cheat-thomas-slab-murphy-sentenced-to-18-months-in-jail-34488668.html
Given her own past associations Maria Cahill has a neck on her. Still good to see that no one is above the law even Slab.

I'm surprised Labour hadn't wheeled her out earlier for some headlines and negative press against the shinners. I fail to see any other reason they hired her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 26, 2016, 06:46:11 PM
18months for 190000 euro

How long will apple inc. Get for the 19 billion they owe in corpo tax?

The timing, the extended coverage on all channels only amounts to an attempt to blacken sf.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on February 26, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
What's it got to do with SF?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 26, 2016, 07:10:43 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on February 26, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
What's it got to do with SF?

Apple categorically denies membership of Sinn Féin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on February 26, 2016, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on February 26, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
What's it got to do with SF?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35141718

Can you not see the connection between the man who was key in holding the Peace process together at a very difficult time by keeping the most vicious republican terrorists at the table and the work SF were doing?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on February 26, 2016, 08:53:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2016, 07:10:43 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on February 26, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
What's it got to do with SF?

Apple categorically denies membership of Sinn Féin.

Without listing them all and there hundreds of companies enjoying irelands easily circumvented tax laws the big deal being made of this pawltry sum is laughable.
Jim corr owed more he didnt get jail..
Funny how a man who made money from a border he wished away is villafied for making a few quid out of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on February 26, 2016, 09:01:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2016, 08:53:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2016, 07:10:43 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on February 26, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
What's it got to do with SF?

Apple categorically denies membership of Sinn Féin.

Without listing them all and there hundreds of companies enjoying irelands easily circumvented tax laws the big deal being made of this pawltry sum is laughable.
Jim corr owed more he didnt get jail..
Funny how a man who made money from a border he wished away is villafied for making a few quid out of it.

http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/businesstaxes/f/taxavoidevade.htm (http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/businesstaxes/f/taxavoidevade.htm)

You are not comparing like with like. Read the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on February 26, 2016, 09:54:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2016, 09:01:09 PM
You are not comparing like with like. Read the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance.

Some engage in good stealing then?

Reminds me - Did that fella Michael Noonan ever get jailed for tax evasion? Or brought to court?
Thought not. I wonder why.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on February 26, 2016, 10:03:02 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on February 26, 2016, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on February 26, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
What's it got to do with SF?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35141718

Can you not see the connection between the man who was key in holding the Peace process together at a very difficult time by keeping the most vicious republican terrorists at the table and the work SF were doing?

  Wouldn't believe a word that comes out of Adams mouth!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2016, 01:23:48 PM
Gerry not welcome in the White House.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/sinn-fein-president-gerry-adams-refused-entry-to-the-white-house-during-st-patricks-trip-34545237.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 28, 2016, 06:45:43 PM
SF propaganda machine in full swing
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/1916/sinn-fein-councillors-blunder-after-tweeting-easter-rising-messages-with-wrong-flag-twice-34578411.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on March 28, 2016, 08:05:42 PM
New Shinner TD, Eoin O'Broin is hiring a constituency assistant (and admirably advertising the post), unfortunately he wants to know on the application whether you have any disabilities or not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 28, 2016, 09:58:53 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2016, 08:05:42 PM
New Shinner TD, Eoin O'Broin is hiring a constituency assistant (and admirably advertising the post), unfortunately he wants to know on the application whether you have any disabilities or not.
Is that not a standard question on all application forms?
If someone with a disability applies reasonable efforts must be made to accomodate them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on March 28, 2016, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 28, 2016, 09:58:53 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2016, 08:05:42 PM
New Shinner TD, Eoin O'Broin is hiring a constituency assistant (and admirably advertising the post), unfortunately he wants to know on the application whether you have any disabilities or not.
Is that not a standard question on all application forms?
If someone with a disability applies reasonable efforts must be made to accomodate them.

Maybe we move in different circles but I've never seen that on any application form I've completed.

Eoin is having Shinner HR adjust it at present anyhoo
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 28, 2016, 10:51:07 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2016, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 28, 2016, 09:58:53 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2016, 08:05:42 PM
New Shinner TD, Eoin O'Broin is hiring a constituency assistant (and admirably advertising the post), unfortunately he wants to know on the application whether you have any disabilities or not.
Is that not a standard question on all application forms?
If someone with a disability applies reasonable efforts must be made to accomodate them.

Maybe we move in different circles but I've never seen that on any application form I've completed.

Eoin is having Shinner HR adjust it at present anyhoo
I think it is a fairly typical question to ascertain if special provision needs to be made for the interview. It even appears on an MOT application form.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on March 29, 2016, 12:17:13 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 26, 2016, 09:54:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2016, 09:01:09 PM
You are not comparing like with like. Read the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance.

Some engage in good stealing then?

Reminds me - Did that fella Michael Noonan ever get jailed for tax evasion? Or brought to court?
Thought not. I wonder why.

The media also turned a blind eye to Noonan empowering paedophiles and looking the other way when state agencies were involved in dodgy dealings.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 20, 2016, 05:39:03 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-36325931 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-36325931)

Sinn Féin to end 'average wage' policy due to rule changes

Sinn Féin say their long standing policy of paying their full time staff and elected representatives equal pay cannot continue due to changes in the Stormont rules.
Until now, all Sinn Féin staff and MLAs are understood to have taken home what the party refers to as an average wage.
That is believed to be in the region of £26,000 per year.
However, Stormont's Independent Financial Review Panel has changed the rules.
Three new grades have been introduced for Stormont staff, starting at £16,000, £19,750 and £22,750.
Sinn Féin is currently implementing the new regulations. But the party has expressed concern about "the implications of these regulations for workers' terms and conditions including maternity/paternity and sick leave".
The BBC has learned that many Sinn Féin staff expressed unhappiness at a recent internal meeting to discuss the changes.
Some complained that Stormont employees will be paid less than their counterparts in the Dáil (Irish Parliament).

Sinn Féin sources say there is a difference in the wages for staff north and south, but this is because the different parliamentary institutions have different wage bands.
Sources say the party's MLAs will continue to be paid about £26,000. They say the party's TDs (Members of the Irish Parliament) continue to receive the Irish average wage, although a review is now underway into the pay policy.
Previously the party's political director in the south, Ken O'Connell, has been quoted as saying the "one size fits all" policy on wages no longer works.
It is understood about 30 Sinn Féin staff will have to re-apply for their own jobs - in some cases this is because they will be working for a new MLA.
Sinn Féin sources acknowledge that what they describe as a "handful of key staff" will not be subject to the changes.
The BBC understands that a number of employees have been in contact with trade union officials to discuss the changes to their conditions.
A Sinn Féin source says the party is not happy about the Independent Financial Review Panel's latest determination, but believes it is legally watertight.
The source expressed concern that the latest pay rates could deter people who live a long distance away from Stormont working at the Assembly.
The source told the BBC that the pay cuts for support staff were so extensive that it would not be feasible for Sinn Féin to subsidise all the employees involved by bringing them up to the average wage.
Sinn Féin says other Stormont parties will also feel the impact of the latest changes as they believe some support staff for other parties have been on higher salary levels than their own employees.
Another member of staff told BBC News NI the development was a "huge ideological change" as MLAs are now recognised as more important than party employees.
They also expressed unhappiness that Sinn Féin employees in Northern Ireland will get paid less than their counterparts in the Dáil (Irish parliament).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 20, 2016, 06:00:14 PM
Does this mean their TDs and MLAs won't qualify for legal aid unlike sc**bag Murphy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 20, 2016, 06:03:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 20, 2016, 05:39:03 PM
They also expressed unhappiness that Sinn Féin employees in Northern Ireland will get paid less than their counterparts in the Dáil (Irish parliament).[/i]

Loads of people in the 6 are paid less than in the 26, perhaps a new policy for SF would be to try and join them together.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on May 20, 2016, 07:57:47 PM
An unrelenting commitment to partition .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 20, 2016, 11:09:13 PM
Downhill from here for SF  ;) :-X
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on May 21, 2016, 07:20:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 20, 2016, 11:09:13 PM
Downhill from here for SF  ;) :-X
all political careers end in failure
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 23, 2016, 07:31:39 PM
Sinn Pain at it again with the help of 15 other pygmy brained so called Socialists.
They are putting down a Dàil motion but
It's not about the homeless crisis
It's not about the health Service
Its not about zero hour contracts or reducing PRSI for the lower paid.
No
Its about fcukn public water charges again even though they know FG/FF and Govt supporting Indos already have their "suspension" in the Govt Programme and will muster about 100 votes.

What a fcukn waste of  39 times €87,000   :-\


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 25, 2016, 11:42:07 AM
Shinners throwing their toys out of the pram because FF (43 seats) and FG (50 seats) are going to vote down the SF/ loony left (39 seats) waste of Dàil time motion.
Meanwhile homelessness, health crisis after crisis, gang wars.........
Deflects from Mary Lou's mate and ex SF councillor's court appearance.
Not to mention :-X
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on May 25, 2016, 01:47:08 PM
Obsess much Rossfan?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 02:38:16 PM
Shinners stepping up to Finance in the 6 counties

The Sinn Féin ministers are:

    Máirtín Ó Muilleoir - minister for finance
    Michelle O'Neill - minister for health
    Chris Hazzard - minister for infrastructure.

The DUP ministers are:

    Simon Hamilton - minister for the economy
    Peter Weir - minister for education
    Paul Givan - minister for the department of communities
    Michelle McIlveen - minister for agriculture, environment and rural affairs.

and 29 year old Justice minister.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 02:38:16 PM
Shinners stepping up to Finance in the 6 counties

The Sinn Féin ministers are:

    Máirtín Ó Muilleoir - minister for finance
    Michelle O'Neill - minister for health
    Chris Hazzard - minister for infrastructure.

The DUP ministers are:

    Simon Hamilton - minister for the economy
    Peter Weir - minister for education
    Paul Givan - minister for the department of communities
    Michelle McIlveen - minister for agriculture, environment and rural affairs.

and 29 year old Justice minister.

Will Casement Pk come under Communities or Infrastructure??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 25, 2016, 06:27:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 25, 2016, 01:47:08 PM
Obsess much Rossfan?
Hate to see 39 pygmy brained eejits wasting public money instead of concentrating on real left wing issues.
Of course the Shinners are on a deflection mission.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 25, 2016, 11:33:36 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 02:38:16 PM
Shinners stepping up to Finance in the 6 counties

The Sinn Féin ministers are:

    Máirtín Ó Muilleoir - minister for finance
    Michelle O'Neill - minister for health
    Chris Hazzard - minister for infrastructure.

The DUP ministers are:

    Simon Hamilton - minister for the economy
    Peter Weir - minister for education
    Paul Givan - minister for the department of communities
    Michelle McIlveen - minister for agriculture, environment and rural affairs.

and 29 year old Justice minister.

Will Casement Pk come under Communities or Infrastructure??

It'll come under Hazzard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 11:53:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 25, 2016, 11:33:36 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 02:38:16 PM
Shinners stepping up to Finance in the 6 counties

The Sinn Féin ministers are:

    Máirtín Ó Muilleoir - minister for finance
    Michelle O'Neill - minister for health
    Chris Hazzard - minister for infrastructure.

The DUP ministers are:

    Simon Hamilton - minister for the economy
    Peter Weir - minister for education
    Paul Givan - minister for the department of communities
    Michelle McIlveen - minister for agriculture, environment and rural affairs.

and 29 year old Justice minister.

Will Casement Pk come under Communities or Infrastructure??

It'll come under Hazzard.

If he does a good job, will QE2 make him a Duke?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on May 25, 2016, 11:58:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 11:53:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 25, 2016, 11:33:36 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 02:38:16 PM
Shinners stepping up to Finance in the 6 counties

The Sinn Féin ministers are:

    Máirtín Ó Muilleoir - minister for finance
    Michelle O'Neill - minister for health
    Chris Hazzard - minister for infrastructure.

The DUP ministers are:

    Simon Hamilton - minister for the economy
    Peter Weir - minister for education
    Paul Givan - minister for the department of communities
    Michelle McIlveen - minister for agriculture, environment and rural affairs.

and 29 year old Justice minister.

Will Casement Pk come under Communities or Infrastructure??

It'll come under Hazzard.

If he does a good job, will QE2 make him a Duke?

Eden worse than mine.  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 26, 2016, 07:17:35 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 25, 2016, 11:33:36 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 02:38:16 PM
Shinners stepping up to Finance in the 6 counties

The Sinn Féin ministers are:

    Máirtín Ó Muilleoir - minister for finance
    Michelle O'Neill - minister for health
    Chris Hazzard - minister for infrastructure.

The DUP ministers are:

    Simon Hamilton - minister for the economy
    Peter Weir - minister for education
    Paul Givan - minister for the department of communities
    Michelle McIlveen - minister for agriculture, environment and rural affairs.

and 29 year old Justice minister.

Will Casement Pk come under Communities or Infrastructure??

It'll come under Hazzard.
DCAL's functions move into Dept for Communities, unless this is one specific thing not following the rest of the old Dept?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: The Gs Man on May 26, 2016, 09:29:43 AM
Definitely Dept for Communities under Givan, DUP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on May 27, 2016, 01:27:56 PM
What does everyone think of Mairtin O Muilleoir's start as finance minister in the occupied six?

I think he could be very good at this role. But should he send any money to the Woodvale area? lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 27, 2016, 01:47:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 27, 2016, 01:27:56 PM
What does everyone think of Mairtin O Muilleoir's start as finance minister in the occupied six?

I think he could be very good at this role. But should he send any money to the Woodvale area? lol
His start?! What has he done?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on May 27, 2016, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 27, 2016, 01:27:56 PM
What does everyone think of Mairtin O Muilleoir's start as finance minister in the occupied six?

I think he could be very good at this role. But should he send any money to the Woodvale area? lol
His own perhaps.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 03:51:57 AM
By the looks of voting today,  SF really have gone away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 07:07:37 AM
Quote from: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 06:33:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 03:51:57 AM
By the looks of voting today,  SF really have gone away.

Expect to hear the words "poll" and "border" a lot over the weekend!

They've failed to build any sort of discussion on the economics,  because for 25 years  they've  promoted  anti economics. No point in talking about a border poll.

Maybe they should just put the customs posts on the Bann.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 24, 2016, 08:17:14 AM
There will be a few of them will have to cut their cloth as the cushy EU funded "community jobs" come to an end
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: The Down Way on June 24, 2016, 08:21:36 AM
Sinn Fein have backed a loser in a two horse race. Time for a new leadership and a new direction, time to get rid of the leaders who are controlled by their British paymasters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on June 24, 2016, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 07:07:37 AM
Quote from: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 06:33:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 03:51:57 AM
By the looks of voting today,  SF really have gone away.

Expect to hear the words "poll" and "border" a lot over the weekend!

They've failed to build any sort of discussion on the economics,  because for 25 years  they've  promoted  anti economics. No point in talking about a border poll.

Maybe they should just put the customs posts on the Bann.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heganboy on June 24, 2016, 04:28:34 PM
Quote from: The Down Way on June 24, 2016, 08:21:36 AM
Sinn Fein have backed a loser in a two horse race. Time for a new leadership and a new direction, time to get rid of the leaders who are controlled by their British paymasters.

can you explain this?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on June 24, 2016, 04:53:50 PM

Doubt if an abstention party will be swayed by a majority vote in England.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on June 25, 2016, 02:10:08 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on June 24, 2016, 04:53:50 PM

Doubt if an abstention party will be swayed by a majority vote in England.

Really?

Any version of a United Irelnad would need some sort of vote in the House of Commons. Would they be swayed then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on June 25, 2016, 02:58:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 03:51:57 AM
By the looks of voting today,  SF really have gone away.
The lowest turnout across Britain and the North was in West Belfast, make of that what you will.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 25, 2016, 05:12:06 PM
SF and the SDLP have lost so many of the nationalist voters because of their acceptance of Stormont. On the other hand they have also created acceptance of the NI state, anthems flags gongs and all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on June 25, 2016, 06:08:26 PM
If Scotland escapes we should have a collection and hire Alex Salmond
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 12, 2016, 05:13:53 PM
Over the past couple of weeks, I have unearthed a treasue trove of information that shows Sinn Fein meeting
in secret with members of warlord Netanyahu's Likud party and other right wing Zionist groups in both Belfast and in occupied Palestine.

Through the mainstream media both on line and in print, I have finally exposed the 2 faced double dealing quislings that they are.

For far too long they have used Palestine as an election tool, and all the while did nothing to further their just cause.

They put their financial and political power in the US as way beyond the rights of the Palestinians.

How embarrassing it must be for them to have the besieged Palestinians in Gaza to tell them to stop meeting with Likud? 

As many of you know on here I have exposed them time and time again for double dealing, and finally this time,
I have exposed them in not only the national media here, but to the Palestinians who matter most.

Not only have the leadership lied to the Palestinains, but they lied to their own members.

What a shower of worthless no good money grabbing spineless pricks.........

Thanks to the Irish News for this article:

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/08/09/news/sinn-fe-in-meets-delegation-of-israeli-government-party-642798/


And to Ali for this article:

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/palestinians-urge-sinn-fein-end-likud-meetings

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on August 12, 2016, 05:26:56 PM
Sinn Fein probably realise that refusing to meet a political party because you disagree with them is a stupid idea.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 12, 2016, 05:28:58 PM
And this was the quisling reply yesterday to the revelations from Pat Sheehan.......

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/26291

If you read it, he says Sinn Fein support BDS.

Now if you click on the links below, how the fcuk can he say that with a straight face?

https://nifriendsofisrael.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/israeli-students-welcomed-in-belfast/

https://nifriendsofisrael.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/2986/

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/press-feed/ministers-welcome-caterpillar-expansion-29961986.html

http://blog.impalapublications.com/israeli-deputy-ambassador-by-james-ofee/

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/25660

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 12, 2016, 05:30:32 PM
Quote from: dec on August 12, 2016, 05:26:56 PM
Sinn Fein probably realise that refusing to meet a political party because you disagree with them is a stupid idea.

Why then do they tell their members they support BDS>
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on August 12, 2016, 09:10:03 PM
Shinners in riding two horses shocker !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 14, 2016, 12:27:32 AM
More damage limitation from them.......


Sinn Féin representatives to visit Palestine in support of Palestinian prisoners:
Sinn Féin MLA for West Belfast, former political prisoner Fra Mc Cann, and Limerick Sinn Féin Seanadóir, Paul Garvan will be travelling to Palestine from the 14 till 18 August to meet with members of the Palestinian Legislative Council, Palestinian prisoners, their families and legal representatives.
The Sinn Féin representatives will also visit Bilal Kayed, who commenced a hunger strike on 15 June in protest against being held without charges under what the Israeli authorities term 'Administrative Detention'.
They are travelling at the request of Palestinian support group, Samidoun Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network.The trip is part of 'an emergency delegation of international parliamentarians' to highlight the injustice of the plight of Palestinian prisoners and in particular the hunger strike of Bilal Kayed. They will also demand the end of the Israeli government policy of Administrative Detention.
Also travelling on the international Delegation are Zoi Konstantinopoulou, renowned human rights lawyer and former head of the Greek parliament, and Ogmundur Jonasson, member of parliament and former Minister of the Interior of Iceland.
Speaking ahead of the trip Sinn Féin MLA, Fra McCann said:
'Sinn Féin has long established links with the Palestinian people in their quest to achieve freedom and statehood.
"We have used our influence to highlight the many injustices inflicted on our Palestinian brothers and sisters by the Israeli government.
"Palestinian prisoner, and hunger striker, Bilal Kayed, should be released immediately.
"There are serious human rights concerns regarding the treatment of Bilal Kayed who is shackled hand to foot in his hospital bed. Bilal's health is deteriorating rapidly.
"It is our hope to visit Bilal in hospital and meet with his family to express our support for their legitimate campaign. The international community has a major role to play in putting pressure on the Israeli administration to end this hunger strike.
"Israeli oppression, such as the policy of Administrative Detention, will not resolve the problems facing the Palestinian and Israeli people.
"There is no military solution to political problems. Dialogue has to be a central tenet of any attempt to make peace and achieve justice. It is the key to conflict resolution.
"Refusing to engage in dialogue, demonising opponents, treating them as non-citizens, stripping them of their rights and entitlements, of their self-esteem and integrity as human beings, engaging in censorship and vilification – all of this makes war easier and peace harder.
"We view this engagement as part of our on-going solidarity with our Palestinian comrades in their struggle for freedom."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 14, 2016, 12:31:57 AM
Palestinians urge Sinn Féin to end Likud meetings

Palestinians are expressing dismay that representatives of Sinn Féin have been hosting delegations from Likud, the party of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Many rank and file members of the Irish nationalist party led by Gerry Adams are on the frontlines in Ireland's Palestine solidarity movement, both in the North and the Republic.

That has heightened the consternation at news of the meetings.

"This is very disheartening to us here in Gaza," Haidar Eid, a university professor and member of the steering committee of PACBI, the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel, told The Electronic Intifada.

"We call on Irish comrades to condemn these meetings in the strongest possible terms," Eid said, urging that people write to Sinn Féin leaders and "even disrupt any future visits by Israeli officials."

"War criminals and racist organizations should not be welcomed in the new Ireland," Eid added.

"I personally met with the Sinn Féin delegation headed by Gerry Adams after the 2009 Israeli attack on Gaza, and the support they showed at the time was enormous," Eid said. "They even welcomed our BDS – boycott, divestment and sanctions – call and promised to take the issue further upon their return to Ireland."

Eid expressed outrage that Sinn Féin is now receiving delegations from "one of the most racist parties in Israel, one that openly calls for ethnic cleansing and apartheid and whose ministers have committed war crimes in Israel's latest attack on Gaza in 2014."

He praised Irish activists for their strong support of Palestine: "Our ties with the Irish people are an example of what true solidarity means. Irish civil society sectors including trade unions have heeded our call for BDS."

That solidarity has always gone both ways, Eid said: "Irish people had our support when they needed it. Sinn Féin leaders know this very well."
Meetings in Belfast

In June, a Likud youth delegation held meetings with young Sinn Féin activists in Belfast.

This was only one of several meetings Sinn Féin officials have held with Likud counterparts in recent years.

Pat Sheehan, a West Belfast legislator in the Northern Ireland Assembly, also met Likud officials in June.

According to the Belfast newspaper The Irish News the meetings have been held under the auspices of London-based think tank Forward Thinking.

Forward Thinking says that its "Irish Peace Process Program" is an "initiative which brings delegations from key constituencies in Israel to Northern Ireland to discuss experiences of the conflict and peace process."
Palestinian cover?

In a statement posted on the party's website, Sheehan defended the meetings, saying that "dialogue is essential in dealing with issues in the Middle East and that Sinn Féin will continue to raise the concerns of the Palestinian people in all forums and at all levels."

"Sinn Féin's record of supporting the Palestinian people is clear and consistent," the statement added. "Any meetings between Sinn Féin representatives and Israeli political parties are on the basis of critical engagement."

"Those who represent the Palestinian people are aware that we raise these issues at all levels and wish us to do so," Sheehan stated, apparently claiming Palestinian cover for the Likud meetings.

While Sheehan did not specify who these Palestinian representatives are, it is notable that the Palestinian BDS National Committee, the broad coalition that spearheads the BDS movement, recently strongly condemned the Palestinian Authority for tacitly facilitating normalization between Israel and other countries.

Sinn Féin's policies are arguably contradictory. The party campaigns for the end of British-imposed partition in Ireland, but it supports the so-called two-state solution for Palestine. That "solution" is a recipe for partitioning historic Palestine.

In a separate statement emailed to The Electronic Intifada, Sinn Féin's central press office offered similar justifications to those given by Sheehan.

"However, we welcome, respect and understand the genuine views expressed and will certainly take them on board as we continue to assist the Palestinian people in their struggle for freedom," the party added in apparent acknowledgment of the outpouring of opposition the Likud meetings have generated.

And in a twist of irony, as Sinn Féin's Sheehan was justifying the meetings in Belfast, a Sinn Féin elected official in the South of Ireland criticized Clare County Council for allowing the Israeli ambassador to visit its chambers this month.

After learning about the low-profile visit, Mike McKee, a Sinn Féin councillor said: "I certainly would not have been in support of it." He added: "Many people in Clare would have great reservations about welcoming the ambassador of a state that has killed from the year 2000 almost 10,000 Palestinians and of that 2,000 are children."
Stop normalization

PSCABI, the Palestinian Students' Campaign for the Academic Boycott of Israel, said in a statement sent to The Electronic Intifada from Gaza that it was "deeply disappointed" to hear about the meeting between the Likud delegation and Sinn Féin youth.

"It is more shocking that this delegation was welcomed to Ireland in order to talk about 'peace,'" PSCABI said. "Let us, occupied Palestinians, ask what do you mean by peace when the Israeli war machine is taking our children's lives and subjecting us to all kinds of horror under deafening international silence?"

"For 10 years, we have been under a brutal, medieval siege interspersed by three barbaric wars launched by apartheid Israel," PSCABI said. "As students, whose entire educational system has been devastated as a result of Israel's long and ongoing blockade, we strongly condemn Sinn Féin receiving the Israeli delegation."

"From under the most brutal siege humanity has witnessed during this modern age, we urge Irish people and Sinn Féin to boycott Israel and to stop normalizing with the Israeli racist colonizer," PSCABI stated.

That siege not only prevents Palestinian students getting out but blocks solidarity visits as well: in December 2014, for instance, Israel refused to allow Sinn Féin president Adams to enter Gaza.
When do you talk?

In its 2015 annual report, Forward Thinking criticizes the "failure of successive peace initiatives to reach out on the one side to the ultra-religious and ideological right parties in Israel, and on the other side to groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine."

Its staff have also met representatives of Hamas.

But while inclusion of all parties – especially those like Sinn Féin once ostracized as "terrorists" – is a key lesson from the Irish peace process, such inclusion has only borne fruit when all parties, especially the more powerful, have recognized the need for a fundamental and transformative change.

That readiness for transformation has historically arrived – as in Ireland and apartheid South Africa, settler-colonial situations with important similarities to Palestine – when the key protagonists have recognized that they are in a stalemate that further armed conflict cannot break.

That is certainly true for Hamas, which has repeatedly made far-reaching offers to Israel to end armed conflict and establish a long-term truce along the 1967 lines that could pave the way for a future political agreement.

But it cannot by any stretch be said of Israel.

The only transformation the Likud believes in and practices is accelerating Israel's aggressive colonization of the West Bank with Jewish-only settlements, and turning Gaza into an ever more isolated and brutalized ghetto.

Meanwhile the Likud-led government continues to pass discriminatory laws and policies against Palestinian citizens of Israel that would be immediately recognizable to Irish nationalists and Catholics who lived under the oppressive yoke of the British-backed "Protestant state for a Protestant people" that long existed in Ireland's North.

Israel will not reach the conclusions that the parties in Ireland or South Africa did, which enabled transformative peace agreements, without sustained pressure that raises the price of what is still for Israel a comfortable and manageable status quo.

That's the logic behind BDS, the Palestinian-led campaign for freedom, justice and equality.

That is why Sinn Féin's continued meetings with Likud in the context of unrelenting Israeli aggression undermine the Palestinian struggle the party says it supports.

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/palestinians-urge-sinn-fein-end-likud-meetings
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on August 14, 2016, 02:06:26 AM
Totally agree give her dixi. Sinn Fein died with Ruairí Ó Brádaigh. The party now is most unrecognisable and are surviving on reputation. I noticed where I come from they have lost large swaths of support.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on August 14, 2016, 09:40:03 AM
SF are now a PC liberal party.  A new Labour Party .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on August 18, 2016, 12:43:23 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/nama-sinn-fein-mla-daithi-mckay-resigns-over-jamie-bryson-coaching-allegations-34975743.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/nama-sinn-fein-mla-daithi-mckay-resigns-over-jamie-bryson-coaching-allegations-34975743.html)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: TabClear on August 18, 2016, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on August 18, 2016, 12:43:23 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/nama-sinn-fein-mla-daithi-mckay-resigns-over-jamie-bryson-coaching-allegations-34975743.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/nama-sinn-fein-mla-daithi-mckay-resigns-over-jamie-bryson-coaching-allegations-34975743.html)

Is being a moron compulsory for all our MLAS? Both sides.  You couldn't make it up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on August 18, 2016, 01:06:02 PM
And if you listen to Talkback on Radio Ulster you'll have heard Martín O'Muilleoir's name brought into it too by Sammy Wilson.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Disillusioned on August 18, 2016, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 18, 2016, 12:52:42 PM


Is being a moron compulsory for all our MLAS? Both sides.  You couldn't make it up

It's not necessary but this is a further example of the sheer arrogance oozing from SF MLAs who believe they are above us all, that they could not be crossed by anyone for fear of what would become of the individual and they are now firmly ensconced in government where they now control the levers of power over anyone or anything they wish.

No doubt that McKay was not operating alone and he had the backing of his colleagues and a party that exerts ruthless central control of all actions by its elected representatives.   As Sammy Wilson put so eloquently this morning, "a SF MLA can't order a box of staples without sanction by Connolly House".  The communications reported today show that at least one other MLA was involved in a choreographed appearance by Bryson.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 01:53:56 PM
Quote from: Disillusioned on August 18, 2016, 01:33:43 PM
It's not necessary but this is a further example of the sheer arrogance oozing from SF MLAs who believe they are above us all, that they could not be crossed by anyone for fear of what would become of the individual and they are now firmly ensconced in government where they now control the levers of power over anyone or anything they wish.

No doubt that McKay was not operating alone and he had the backing of his colleagues and a party that exerts ruthless central control of all actions by its elected representatives.   As Sammy Wilson put so eloquently this morning, "a SF MLA can't order a box of staples without sanction by Connolly House".  The communications reported today show that at least one other MLA was involved in a choreographed appearance by Bryson.

Pardon me if I don't take Sammy's word for what happens in SF for obvious reasons, but why should we believe you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 01:57:36 PM
I don't understand why the f**k Sinn Fein needed to get involved in it. It was obviously a DUP plant feeding the info to wee Jamie why couldn't they just let him get on with it?

Also what the f**k is the chair of the committee doing coaching a witness to the committee. For a party not known to make mistakes on this scale it's a huge f**king blunder and blows the whole NAMA story on to Sinn Fein instead of the DUP where it should be!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 01:58:29 PM
Quote from: Rois on August 18, 2016, 01:06:02 PM
And if you listen to Talkback on Radio Ulster you'll have heard Martín O'Muilleoir's name brought into it too by Sammy Wilson.

I was surprised Daithi resigned so quickly given on what I read his contribution was reasonably innocuous. A year or two back he might have got away with just resigning from the Committee. However I get the feeling there's a new broom in town in the shape of Máirtín. He's there to up the SF game so the DUP will be going all out to get him. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 02:03:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 01:57:36 PM
I don't understand why the f**k Sinn Fein needed to get involved in it. It was obviously a DUP plant feeding the info to wee Jamie why couldn't they just let him get on with it?

Also what the f**k is the chair of the committee doing coaching a witness to the committee. For a party not known to make mistakes on this scale it's a huge f**king blunder and blows the whole NAMA story on to Sinn Fein instead of the DUP where it should be!

His "coaching" amounted to:

"What should tick the box of the committee for public session in terms of your response and I will be saying this to other witnesses ..."
and
"Send me a draft of the letter you are sending. Keen to get you into public session."

He presumably resigned because it was made clear that he shouldn't have had any contact with him. Daithi foolishly thought that as he would say the same to others it was okay to have some informal contact.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on August 18, 2016, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on August 14, 2016, 02:06:26 AM
Totally agree give her dixi. Sinn Fein died with Ruairí Ó Brádaigh. The party now is most unrecognisable and are surviving on reputation. I noticed where I come from they have lost large swaths of support.

Everyone knows they are not the same as the 80s. It's no secret and not unusal. The problem is while SF evolved into something different their detractors stayed the same/ demand the same/ or accuse them of being the same. All nonsense. Their should be a goodwin's Theory for all SF related topics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on August 18, 2016, 02:26:25 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 02:03:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 01:57:36 PM
I don't understand why the f**k Sinn Fein needed to get involved in it. It was obviously a DUP plant feeding the info to wee Jamie why couldn't they just let him get on with it?

Also what the f**k is the chair of the committee doing coaching a witness to the committee. For a party not known to make mistakes on this scale it's a huge f**king blunder and blows the whole NAMA story on to Sinn Fein instead of the DUP where it should be!

His "coaching" amounted to:

"What should tick the box of the committee for public session in terms of your response and I will be saying this to other witnesses ..."
and
"Send me a draft of the letter you are sending. Keen to get you into public session."

He presumably resigned because it was made clear that he shouldn't have had any contact with him. Daithi foolishly thought that as he would say the same to others it was okay to have some informal contact.

Ulick

Do you really expect us to believe this ??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on August 18, 2016, 02:28:19 PM
Why did the MLA resign if they are disclosing stuff that is in the public interest ???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 02:28:33 PM
Quote from: ashman on August 18, 2016, 02:26:25 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 02:03:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 01:57:36 PM
I don't understand why the f**k Sinn Fein needed to get involved in it. It was obviously a DUP plant feeding the info to wee Jamie why couldn't they just let him get on with it?

Also what the f**k is the chair of the committee doing coaching a witness to the committee. For a party not known to make mistakes on this scale it's a huge f**king blunder and blows the whole NAMA story on to Sinn Fein instead of the DUP where it should be!

His "coaching" amounted to:

"What should tick the box of the committee for public session in terms of your response and I will be saying this to other witnesses ..."
and
"Send me a draft of the letter you are sending. Keen to get you into public session."

He presumably resigned because it was made clear that he shouldn't have had any contact with him. Daithi foolishly thought that as he would say the same to others it was okay to have some informal contact.

Ulick

Do you really expect us to believe this ??

Well that's what was on the front page of the Irish News this morning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StephenC on August 18, 2016, 02:32:05 PM
Jamie spoke to someone from SF?  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: ashman on August 18, 2016, 02:28:19 PM
Why did the MLA resign if they are disclosing stuff that is in the public interest ???

He was Chair of the committee and all contact with witnesses is supposed to go through the civil servants. He foolishly thought he could use Twitter to do what the others do over lunch in the Culloden.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on August 18, 2016, 02:36:36 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: ashman on August 18, 2016, 02:28:19 PM
Why did the MLA resign if they are disclosing stuff that is in the public interest ???

He was Chair of the committee and all contact with witnesses is supposed to go through the civil servants. He foolishly thought he could use Twitter to do what the others do over lunch in the Culloden.

Right , tuigim anois .   What is the Culloden ????
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on August 18, 2016, 02:42:14 PM
After the initial advice, he told Bryson to get in touch with another SF guy, O'Hara, who took on the coaching role.

I personally don't care if he was coaching him to get the truth out about Peter Robinson.  Substance over form for me - was Bryson telling the truth about Peter and did he do so in a way that got the information out (that we might otherwise not have heard about if the committee stopped Bryson at the start of his evidence)?  If the answer is yes, then the ends justifies the means for me.

Bryson's done himself more damage in the loyalist community by befriending SF!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 03:04:41 PM
Quote from: Rois on August 18, 2016, 02:42:14 PM
After the initial advice, he told Bryson to get in touch with another SF guy, O'Hara, who took on the coaching role.

I personally don't care if he was coaching him to get the truth out about Peter Robinson.  Substance over form for me - was Bryson telling the truth about Peter and did he do so in a way that got the information out (that we might otherwise not have heard about if the committee stopped Bryson at the start of his evidence)?  If the answer is yes, then the ends justifies the means for me.

Bryson's done himself more damage in the loyalist community by befriending SF!

Don't get me wrong I agree with what you're saying but when you're the Chair of a Ministerial committee and act incorrectly you deserve all you get.

SF apologist/cheerleader Ulick is using words like foolish, innocuous, informal contact. . . Not exactly things you expect from the Chair or a committee. He deserves all he gets the only problem now is there is zero chance the higher ups didn't know about this so who will be thrown under the bus next!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on August 18, 2016, 03:10:38 PM
This shows again that in the main politicians having equities are in the main show trials where most of them are pitching with next election in mind .  What is needed in these issues are forensic accountants and lawyers .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 03:11:39 PM
Quote from: ashman on August 18, 2016, 02:36:36 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: ashman on August 18, 2016, 02:28:19 PM
Why did the MLA resign if they are disclosing stuff that is in the public interest ???

He was Chair of the committee and all contact with witnesses is supposed to go through the civil servants. He foolishly thought he could use Twitter to do what the others do over lunch in the Culloden.

Right , tuigim anois .   What is the Culloden ????

Hotel in Holywood across the road from MI5 headquarters. Favoured watering hole for spooks, Unionist politicians, financial types & senior civil servants.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 03:04:41 PM
Don't get me wrong I agree with what you're saying but when you're the Chair of a Ministerial committee and act incorrectly you deserve all you get.

SF apologist/cheerleader Ulick is using words like foolish, innocuous, informal contact. . . Not exactly things you expect from the Chair or a committee. He deserves all he gets the only problem now is there is zero chance the higher ups didn't know about this so who will be thrown under the bus next!!

So you obviously have evidence of a grand conspiracy the screenexile?

... and out of curiosity what exactly is so wrong with a committee witness being prepared before giving evidence?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on August 18, 2016, 03:26:21 PM
If he was in the DUP he'd be in line for promotion at this stage
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 03:36:35 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 03:04:41 PM
Don't get me wrong I agree with what you're saying but when you're the Chair of a Ministerial committee and act incorrectly you deserve all you get.

SF apologist/cheerleader Ulick is using words like foolish, innocuous, informal contact. . . Not exactly things you expect from the Chair or a committee. He deserves all he gets the only problem now is there is zero chance the higher ups didn't know about this so who will be thrown under the bus next!!

So you obviously have evidence of a grand conspiracy the screenexile?

... and out of curiosity what exactly is so wrong with a committee witness being prepared before giving evidence?

Nothing as long as the coach isn't the Chairperson of said f**king committee!!!

EDIT: Obviously Daithi knows something you don't as he's just apologised for it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 03:49:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 03:36:35 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 03:04:41 PM
Don't get me wrong I agree with what you're saying but when you're the Chair of a Ministerial committee and act incorrectly you deserve all you get.

SF apologist/cheerleader Ulick is using words like foolish, innocuous, informal contact. . . Not exactly things you expect from the Chair or a committee. He deserves all he gets the only problem now is there is zero chance the higher ups didn't know about this so who will be thrown under the bus next!!

So you obviously have evidence of a grand conspiracy the screenexile?

... and out of curiosity what exactly is so wrong with a committee witness being prepared before giving evidence?

Nothing as long as the coach isn't the Chairperson of said f**king committee!!!

EDIT: Obviously Daithi knows something you don't as he's just apologised for it.

Firstly I didn't say Daithi didn't do anything wrong or shouldn't resign etc... so you made all that bollocks up.

So anyway in your opinion, what exactly is so wrong with a committee witness being prepared before giving evidence (by the Chair or anyone else)?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Disillusioned on August 18, 2016, 04:59:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 01:53:56 PM
Quote from: Disillusioned on August 18, 2016, 01:33:43 PM
It's not necessary but this is a further example of the sheer arrogance oozing from SF MLAs who believe they are above us all, that they could not be crossed by anyone for fear of what would become of the individual and they are now firmly ensconced in government where they now control the levers of power over anyone or anything they wish.

No doubt that McKay was not operating alone and he had the backing of his colleagues and a party that exerts ruthless central control of all actions by its elected representatives.   As Sammy Wilson put so eloquently this morning, "a SF MLA can't order a box of staples without sanction by Connolly House".  The communications reported today show that at least one other MLA was involved in a choreographed appearance by Bryson.

Pardon me if I don't take Sammy's word for what happens in SF for obvious reasons, but why should we believe you?

You make my point for me on the attitude of SF and how they minimise their own actions when caught out and then attempt to make it appear that anyone raising a challenge is the issue while trying to put their centralist groupthink as the only version that can be correct as evidenced by your previous posts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 05:41:41 PM
Quote from: Disillusioned on August 18, 2016, 04:59:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 01:53:56 PM
Quote from: Disillusioned on August 18, 2016, 01:33:43 PM
It's not necessary but this is a further example of the sheer arrogance oozing from SF MLAs who believe they are above us all, that they could not be crossed by anyone for fear of what would become of the individual and they are now firmly ensconced in government where they now control the levers of power over anyone or anything they wish.

No doubt that McKay was not operating alone and he had the backing of his colleagues and a party that exerts ruthless central control of all actions by its elected representatives.   As Sammy Wilson put so eloquently this morning, "a SF MLA can't order a box of staples without sanction by Connolly House".  The communications reported today show that at least one other MLA was involved in a choreographed appearance by Bryson.

Pardon me if I don't take Sammy's word for what happens in SF for obvious reasons, but why should we believe you?

You make my point for me on the attitude of SF and how they minimise their own actions when caught out and then attempt to make it appear that anyone raising a challenge is the issue while trying to put their centralist groupthink as the only version that can be correct as evidenced by your previous posts.

Not minimising anything pal, just asking you to back up your augment with something more substantial than empty rhetoric.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SHEEDY on August 18, 2016, 06:14:30 PM
embarassing day for sein fein, dont believe for a second that daithi acted on his own on this one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 06:54:35 PM
Why's that?
Should be easy enough to determine based on when Bryson DM'd him and how long it took for the reply. It must take even the Shinners at least what a few hours to ring round to get everyone together, open up Connolly House, figure out the 143 character reply and hit the reply button. Oh they probably had to use Daithi's iPhone, so I guess maybe add on another few hours for him to drive down to Belfast for the groupthink social media think-in thingy.
Maybe Allison Morris could help answer our questions or maybe she's too busy working on her next mentally vulnerable source?

Fer fck sake lads it was someone sending a few silly messages on Twitter. The Irish News calls it "coaching" and you all go weak at the knees without reading past the bullshit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on August 18, 2016, 07:13:05 PM
Ulick you're in a hole - stop diggin' ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gaffer on August 18, 2016, 07:23:11 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 02:28:33 PM
Quote from: ashman on August 18, 2016, 02:26:25 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 02:03:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 01:57:36 PM
I don't understand why the f**k Sinn Fein needed to get involved in it. It was obviously a DUP plant feeding the info to wee Jamie why couldn't they just let him get on with it?

Also what the f**k is the chair of the committee doing coaching a witness to the committee. For a party not known to make mistakes on this scale it's a huge f**king blunder and blows the whole NAMA story on to Sinn Fein instead of the DUP where it should be!

His "coaching" amounted to:

"What should tick the box of the committee for public session in terms of your response and I will be saying this to other witnesses ..."
and
"Send me a draft of the letter you are sending. Keen to get you into public session."

He presumably resigned because it was made clear that he shouldn't have had any contact with him. Daithi foolishly thought that as he would say the same to others it was okay to have some informal contact.

Ulick

Do you really expect us to believe this ??

Well that's what was on the front page of the Irish News this morning.

So that's makes it true then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 08:44:00 PM
No idea, the Irish News these days seems to be following the Tele approach by giving us lots of half truths' surrounded by bullshit. For example the other day the Tele had something about a drinks campaign being cancelled because they didn't want to be associated with the Orange Order which would offend Catholics. When you cut through Suzanne Breen's bullshit in that story to read the company position it said nothing about offended Catholics just the OO. Breen added the bit about the Catholics to stir the pot in order to provoke rent-a-quote merchants' like Tom Elliot. Similarly in this case Morris has presented us with two Twitter direct messages from Daithi and said he was "coaching" Bryson. Really? More likely he was on his sofa on a Sunday afternoon, whipped off two replies, thought the better of it later and told him to contact someone else. It's the nature and immediacy of social media. Alison Morris knows that herself, sure she was on the media earlier in the week as an expert of all things Twitter. She also knows she'll find a willing audience spreading such bullshit just as her and her erstwhile colleague Barnes did during the despicable and tragic Dolours Price "story".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on August 18, 2016, 08:52:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 18, 2016, 07:13:05 PM
Ulick you're in a hole - stop diggin' ;)

Seconded... You're fighting a losing battle here Ulick if McKay did nothing wrong then why resign?

In answer to your question which I already answers previously there is nothing wrong with a witness being coached but not by the Chair of the committee who is supposed to be impartial and beyond reproach!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 18, 2016, 09:24:43 PM
As bad as Fearon sometimes. If it was someone from the other side of the fence you'd be clamouring for heads to roll.

Blinkered, blind cheer leading does nobody any good.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 09:28:46 PM
But why should it matter. If the Chair is impartial then who better to prepare him? Bryson was a witness not an accused. Daithi resigned because someone or some rule has deemed the contact inappropriate, which it probably was. But let's not get carried away, it's hardly a hanging offence and certainly not unheard off for a committee Chair to help prepare those about to give submissions. And then, 2 Tweets is now deemed as "coaching"? Dead-on...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 09:34:21 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 18, 2016, 09:24:43 PM
As bad as Fearon sometimes. If it was someone from the other side of the fence you'd be clamouring for heads to roll.

Blinkered, blind cheer leading does nobody any good.

I take it that's addressed to me? Who exactly am I cheerleading for and what have I said makes you think that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on August 18, 2016, 09:38:45 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 09:28:46 PM
But why should it matter. If the Chair is impartial then who better to prepare him? Bryson was a witness not an accused. Daithi resigned because someone or some rule has deemed the contact inappropriate, which it probably was. But let's not get carried away, it's hardly a hanging offence and certainly not unheard off for a committee Chair to help prepare those about to give submissions. And then, 2 Tweets is now deemed as "coaching"? Dead-on...

The issue is who he was colluding with. A UVF apologist and fan of Billy Wright. Absolute disgrace.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 18, 2016, 09:44:12 PM
"colluding" - two Tweets encouraging a witness to come before a committee. Fck sake lads this is shark jump territory now. Daithi was foolish and is now paying the price probably because he got that loyalist march banned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on August 18, 2016, 10:55:55 PM
Jesus ulick you think you'd have the good sense to keep your mouth shut on this one. About the only positive thing I can think to say about Dhaiti is that he had the good sense to fall on his sword and accept is wrongdoing. Too many politicians see fit to blindly plough on through their disgrace unabashed.

Kind of pathetic though this is what the great political machine of Sf is about these days. Urging on an illiterate knuckle dragger to do their dirty work. I'd say Dhaiti thought himself a real clever fcuker getting in contact with Bryson like he was f**king Frank Underwood.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nigel White on August 18, 2016, 10:58:08 PM
I don't know why he resigned. I don't see that he did anything wrong. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 18, 2016, 11:14:56 PM
Over the past week or so I have clearly shown the Sinn Fein leadership up for been nothing but a shower
of 2 faced double dealing cowards. Quilsings. They make me sick to see how they have sold the Palestinian cause
in order to get votes and make themselves not only look like Peace makers, but a sop to the USA and their Zionist
friends.

They have been double dealing with Netanyahu's Zionist Likud party behind everyone's back acting the big lads
with all their usual peace processing slabering. They crossed the picket line and everyone around the world in the
Pro Palestinian solidarity world is disgusted with their actions. Palestinians are not too impressed either.

They started a position saying they permission to talk, then, oh when we meet them with always mention Palestine,
to we believe in critical engagement. They have dropped the part saying they had Palestinian permission, and every time
they issue another press release I shut their argument down instantly.

They went behind everyone's back, and i'm calling Gerry Adams Martin McGuinness Pat Sheehan, and their youth gang
a shower of sell out bastards. And I will say that to their face, on TV, or on the radio. I have caught them out big time,
and they know it. I have a dossier of information that has them tied up in knots.

To this minute not one single Palestinian or Palestinian group have come forward to support them. Not one. Zilch
What does that tell you about them? They have been shamed and embarrassed despite firing out press releases
like confetti  they haven't come up with a single friend to back them up. They are pathetic. Some friend to Palestine they are.

Because folks, lets face it, what Palestinian is going to come forward and say they gave Sinn Fein permission to send
in a couple of lads who couldn't spell Palestine to chat with the Likud Party? Seriously, who would put the name alongside
that? No doubt Netanyahu took on board what the lads had to say on behalf of Palestine.......

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13886375_10154392522179314_8109398172437004220_n.jpg?oh=8e0e51e828af1d11fb215e8c749750a3&oe=58593262)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on August 18, 2016, 11:17:48 PM
It's a bit like a Judge in a trial contacting a witness and telling him what to say.
Jaysus Shinners will ye just take ye're lead from McKay who resigned - "voluntarily" no doubt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Disillusioned on August 18, 2016, 11:22:33 PM
Quote from: trileacman on August 18, 2016, 10:55:55 PM
About the only positive thing I can think to say about Dhaiti is that he had the good sense to fall on his sword and accept is wrongdoing. Too many politicians see fit to blindly plough on through their disgrace unabashed.


Nothing so noble in his resignation.  He has resigned as a MLA because he now becomes an ordinary citizen in an attempt to avoid any further embarrassment for the party hierarchy in an official investigation into the affair if he remained as a MLA open to disciplinary action for his manipulation of the committee process.  However, he is open to an attempt at prosecution for malfeasance in public office, interesting to see if the authorities follow that up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on August 18, 2016, 11:33:12 PM
Reminds me of the scene from American History X when the neo-nazi in prison saw the other white supremicists were dealing drugs with the blacks and hispanics and he realised it was all a facade. SF and Jamie Bryson... some bedfellows
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on August 18, 2016, 11:35:51 PM
Quote from: Disillusioned on August 18, 2016, 11:22:33 PM
Quote from: trileacman on August 18, 2016, 10:55:55 PM
About the only positive thing I can think to say about Dhaiti is that he had the good sense to fall on his sword and accept is wrongdoing. Too many politicians see fit to blindly plough on through their disgrace unabashed.


Nothing so noble in his resignation.  He has resigned as a MLA because he now becomes an ordinary citizen in an attempt to avoid any further embarrassment for the party hierarchy in an official investigation into the affair if he remained as a MLA open to disciplinary action for his manipulation of the committee process.  However, he is open to an attempt at prosecution for malfeasance in public office, interesting to see if the authorities follow that up.

Told to resign I would think, when I heard McGuinness say earlier he needed to seriously consider his position as an MLA you knew the game was up for him
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Nigel White on August 18, 2016, 11:41:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 18, 2016, 11:17:48 PM
It's a bit like a Judge in a trial contacting a witness and telling him what to say.
Jaysus Shinners will ye just take ye're lead from McKay who resigned - "voluntarily" no doubt.
Fair point
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 12:18:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 18, 2016, 11:17:48 PM
It's a bit like a Judge in a trial contacting a witness and telling him what to say.
Jaysus Shinners will ye just take ye're lead from McKay who resigned - "voluntarily" no doubt.

Well here's a thing. I was a witness in a trial a few years back and I got quite a bit of advice from the judge about how to answer questions. Quite a bit more that two Tweets worth as well. Should the judge resign also?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 12:19:56 AM
Quote from: Nigel White on August 18, 2016, 11:41:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 18, 2016, 11:17:48 PM
It's a bit like a Judge in a trial contacting a witness and telling him what to say.
Jaysus Shinners will ye just take ye're lead from McKay who resigned - "voluntarily" no doubt.
Fair point

No it's not, judges direct witnesses all the time ffs. Anyway the Chair of not a judge he's there to ensure the committee fulfil it's remit efficiently. In the two Tweets produced by the Irish News the Chair in this case asked the witness to forward a his letter of testament. He doesn't tell him what to put in it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: longballin on August 18, 2016, 11:33:12 PM
Reminds me of the scene from American History X when the neo-nazi in prison saw the other white supremicists were dealing drugs with the blacks and hispanics and he realised it was all a facade. SF and Jamie Bryson... some bedfellows

Someone did call Godwin's Law already.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Disillusioned on August 19, 2016, 08:07:39 AM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 12:18:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 18, 2016, 11:17:48 PM
It's a bit like a Judge in a trial contacting a witness and telling him what to say.
Jaysus Shinners will ye just take ye're lead from McKay who resigned - "voluntarily" no doubt.

Well here's a thing. I was a witness in a trial a few years back and I got quite a bit of advice from the judge about how to answer questions. Quite a bit more that two Tweets worth as well. Should the judge resign also?

Really, did he advise you by Twitter or instant messaging or privately in his chambers or maybe by one of his colleagues speaking to you in private?  I would have thought that his advice would have been given in open court and would have been transparent, just as when Daithi McKay asked similar transparency in asking, on 20 August 2015,  for witnesses to come forward to the NAMA inquiry:

http://www.sinnfein.ie/ga/north-antrim-daith-mckay-mla?limit=10&start=40&offset=70 (http://www.sinnfein.ie/ga/north-antrim-daith-mckay-mla?limit=10&start=40&offset=70)

Sinn Féin MLA Daithí McKay called today on anyone with information relevant to the sale of NAMA's northern loans to bring it forward to an Assembly inquiry.

Daithí McKay said:

"Hearings into the sale of the NAMA portfolio will resume next week when the Law Society will appear in front of the Finance Committee's inquiry.

"I am appealing to anyone with information relevant to this inquiry to bring it forward so that we can shed light on the events surrounding the sale of the NAMA loans.

"To date we have invited several key players to appear before the committee, including former ministers and government officials.

"No stone will be left unturned in this inquiry and we will use powers to compel key witnesses to appear in the interests of transparency."

http://www.sinnfein.ie/ga/north-antrim-daith-mckay-mla?limit=10&start=40&offset=50# (http://www.sinnfein.ie/ga/north-antrim-daith-mckay-mla?limit=10&start=40&offset=50#)

http://www.sinnfein.ie/ga/north-antrim-daith-mckay-mla?limit=10&start=50&offset=60# (http://www.sinnfein.ie/ga/north-antrim-daith-mckay-mla?limit=10&start=50&offset=60#)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 08:46:06 AM
Right so you are saying now that Daithi's wrongdoing was not a matter of "coaching" a witness but the manner in which it was conducted? Good, that's progress.
So what did he Tweet exactly?

"What should tick the box of the committee for public session in terms of your response and I will be saying this to other witnesses ..."
and
"Send me a draft of the letter you are sending. Keen to get you into public session."

Send me you evidence, I would like you to put it on the public record! A fcking hanging offense right there!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 08:51:47 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51QS0C54GQL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 08:55:51 AM
Come on then gallsman, I'm still waiting on your answer. Who exactly am I cheerleading for and what have I posted to give grounds to the accusation?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 09:12:24 AM
You are a Sinn Fein cheerleader. Always have been and always will be. In this particular instance, all that's needed is:

QuoteI was surprised Daithi resigned so quickly given on what I read his contribution was reasonably innocuous.

You are the only one who cannot see the inappropriateness of this.

As for your "judges direct witnesses all the time" comments, you have failed to dispute the difference between a judge openly directing a witness in court and the equivalent head of a committee engaging in clandestine conversations with a witness and referring  him to a party colleague in order to be coached (you're the only one who thinks the inverted commas are necessary here).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on August 19, 2016, 10:02:59 AM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: longballin on August 18, 2016, 11:33:12 PM
Reminds me of the scene from American History X when the neo-nazi in prison saw the other white supremicists were dealing drugs with the blacks and hispanics and he realised it was all a facade. SF and Jamie Bryson... some bedfellows

Someone did call Godwin's Law already.

Not so much thinking of Nazis but the idea seeming enemies are actually in cohoots with each other on the q-t....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 10:05:53 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 09:12:24 AM
You are a Sinn Fein cheerleader. Always have been and always will be. In this particular instance, all that's needed is:

QuoteI was surprised Daithi resigned so quickly given on what I read his contribution was reasonably innocuous.

You are the only one who cannot see the inappropriateness of this.
That is cheerleadering for Sinn Fein? Wise up. It's obvious from what I'm posting here I disagree with Sinn Fein for making him resign and with Daithi for actually doing it.

Quote from: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 09:12:24 AM
As for your "judges direct witnesses all the time" comments, you have failed to dispute the difference between a judge openly directing a witness in court and the equivalent head of a committee engaging in clandestine conversations with a witness and referring  him to a party colleague in order to be coached (you're the only one who thinks the inverted commas are necessary here).

That's because it's a silly, strawman point. A judge can advise and give instructions to a witness anywhere he or she deems appropriate. As Chair of numerous disciplinary committees, one of my first duties was to write to witnesses with advice on what they need to present, how to compile their submission and and how to present it. Also I would advise them if necessary to seek advice from the union or any other person they thought appropriate. These things happen all the time and witnesses are often coached on their evidence by advisors, solicitors and barristers. There is no rule that I know off which prevented Daithi offering similar advice to Bryson. The only thing Daithi did "wrong" was doing it via social media and not telling anyone about it. Foolish as I've said.
The fact that you lads are content to be lead around by the nose by the Allison Morris of the Irish News is laughable considering her history of deviousness, which let's not forget lead to the death of a vulnerable woman. She's attempting to whip up a scandal out of a few Tweets and you and the Shinners have fallen for it.
   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on August 19, 2016, 10:07:24 AM
McKay didn't do anything illegal imo. Might be against the assembly rules but I don't see the harm in ensuring Bryson presents the evidence in a way which does not allow unionists to block it. The Nama thing stinks and I wonder why some politicians are getting so exercised. As it stands there is not a shred of evidence to suggest anyone else is involved. But if they are so what.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on August 19, 2016, 10:10:53 AM
Sammy Wilson this morning on the radio "terrible, terrible, terrible, blah blah blah"
Presenter: "So will you refuse to sit in government with SF then?"
Sammy: "Er...no"

Or something to that effect.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on August 19, 2016, 11:05:14 AM
There was me thinking northern politicians of whatever hue were more principled and less venal than their southern counterparts . 

Another of my beliefs under doubt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 11:16:10 AM
In an effort to try and redeem some shred of respect over been caught out meeting Netanyahu's Likud party,
they dispatched 2 reps to Palestine. They were going to meet the family of Palestinian man who is currently
on hunger strike. And sure enough, having been silent for a few days after the exposure of their double dealing,
they sprung into action and tried to make themselves look great. Photos and press releases were fired out like
confetti, and only their loyal sheep bought it.

They used a Palestinian hunger striker to boost their fallen image. They used a hunger striker. That's how pathetic
they are. It's all about them, and no body else. They have used the Palestinian cause for years now, however,
this time they have been well caught out and rightly so. The PFLP who the hunger striker is aligned to were not impressed
and issued a statement calling for them to honour the boycott and indeed intensify it. Nobody else wanted to meet them such
is the anger in Palestine at this sell out of the cause.

I have a dossier of information on them, and they know it. They sold out the Palestinians and Palestine for their own
benefit and nobody else. They are a shower of low life scumbags for doing such a thing.

They could have stood up and said the meetings were wrong and they will not take place again. But no, they have defended
them to the hilt, even in the face of appeals from Palestinians to stop.

This is a selection of replies Sinn Fein members are posting beneath articles on the betrayal


At the end of the day, when it comes to post conflict reconciliation, we know what's best and will continue to work for what is best anywhere in the world.

I will reiterate that SF has done more than any group in Ireland to highlight the plight of the Palestinian people. We stand with them in the resistance struggle but we certainly don't require approval or permission from anyone there for things we choose to do. SF will continue to do what we feel is right to restore peace to Palestine and ensure a lasting peace. I can't stand Zionism, but to find an agreed solution to the bloodshed all sides must be consulted. There mustn't be any confusion about that.

Adams is regarded now as a Statesman...look at the role McGuinness and him played during the ending of the war in South Africa..And even our  own conflict when sworn enemies engaged.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 11:21:07 AM
Dixie do the PLO not meet with Likud?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on August 19, 2016, 11:27:06 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2016, 10:07:24 AM
McKay didn't do anything illegal imo. Might be against the assembly rules but I don't see the harm in ensuring Bryson presents the evidence in a way which does not allow unionists to block it. The Nama thing stinks and I wonder why some politicians are getting so exercised. As it stands there is not a shred of evidence to suggest anyone else is involved. But if they are so what.

He has been completely and utterly stupid, the NAMA mess was a distinctly unionist one and now instead of the truth coming out about the dirty deals that have been done the only news story about it will be SF ganging up on them to make stuff up.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 11:33:32 AM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 11:21:07 AM
Dixie do the PLO not meet with Likud?

Sinn Fein are not the PLO, and no one in Palestine asked them to send in a couple of lads to speak to Netanyahu's
Likud party on their behalf.

No one has come forward from Palestine to back up their bullshit.

They crossed the picket line, and they have been caught out.

And I will say it again, they are sell outs. All for their own gain......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 11:34:56 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 11:33:32 AM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 11:21:07 AM
Dixie do the PLO not meet with Likud?

Sinn Fein are not the PLO, and no one in Palestine asked them to send in a couple of lads to speak to Netanyahu's
Likud party on their behalf.

No one has come forward from Palestine to back up their bullshit.

They crossed the picket line, and they have been caught out.

And I will say it again, they are sell outs. All for their own gain......

Sorry, was that a yes or no?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 11:45:48 AM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 11:34:56 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 11:33:32 AM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 11:21:07 AM
Dixie do the PLO not meet with Likud?

Sinn Fein are not the PLO, and no one in Palestine asked them to send in a couple of lads to speak to Netanyahu's
Likud party on their behalf.

No one has come forward from Palestine to back up their bullshit.

They crossed the picket line, and they have been caught out.

And I will say it again, they are sell outs. All for their own gain......

Sorry, was that a yes or no?

Go ask Sinn Fein who gave them permission to cross the picket line and talk with Netanyahu's Likud party.

The Palestinians can talk to whoever they want because it's their struggle.

They didn't ask nor did they instruct Sinn Fein to talk to the Zionists who currently murder them by the thousands.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 11:45:48 AM
Go ask Sinn Fein who gave them permission to cross the picket line and talk with Netanyahu's Likud party.

The Palestinians can talk to whoever they want because it's their struggle.

They didn't ask nor did they instruct Sinn Fein to talk to the Zionists who currently murder them by the thousands.

So you're saying the PLO can speak to Likud but SF can't. Yeah that makes a lot of sense alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on August 19, 2016, 12:04:38 PM
I'm not really getting why ghd is so outraged? Did they directly claim they were representing the Palestinians, and that's the problem? Or is it that they spoke to the Israelis on their own behalf without clearing it with the Palestinians first? If it's the latter, I'm not sure that's such a massive issue. Surely someone who is trying to help broker some contact should be able to remain autonomous and speak to both parties separately, and bring them together if they both agree?

What were they 'caught out' doing?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on August 19, 2016, 12:22:38 PM
No Shinner but surely engaging is better than the current status quo.

to be honest the whole injustice of ME will only be solved by American government growing a pair .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 19, 2016, 12:04:38 PM
I'm not really getting why ghd is so outraged? Did they directly claim they were representing the Palestinians, and that's the problem? Or is it that they spoke to the Israelis on their own behalf without clearing it with the Palestinians first? If it's the latter, I'm not sure that's such a massive issue. Surely someone who is trying to help broker some contact should be able to remain autonomous and speak to both parties separately, and bring them together if they both agree?

What were they 'caught out' doing?

There is a global BDS movement that asks people to Boycott Israel and companies who profit from the occupation.
Sinn Fein are even calling for the Irish Government to endorse the principles of BDS Boycott Divestment and Sanctions.
Much the same as against Apartheid back in the day.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/41210

They have been caught out meeting not only Likud party members, but other ultra Zionist groups here in Ireland.

Only a couple of days before the news went public, a Sinn Fein councillor in Co Clare was outraged that an Israeli
Ambassador was in Clare and that they didn't get an opportunity to protest. Then he was left red faced after he found
out his party leadership were not only meeting Israeli Ambassadors, but members of the Israeli Government in secret.

http://clareherald.com/2016/08/mckee-hits-out-at-visit-of-israeli-ambassador/

These meetings have been held in secret, and trust me, their membership has been rocked by what has been going on.
Especially people in the 26.

This was Sinn Fein on their peace process band wagon thinking they are the only ones that know best, and they feel they
don't need anyone's permission to talk to the Israeli's, even the Palestinians.

Even after the Palestinians spoke out about these meetings, they have refused to heed their call. Self serving bastards.

"This is very disheartening to us here in Gaza," Haidar Eid, a university professor and member of the steering committee of PACBI, the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel, told The Electronic Intifada.

"We call on Irish comrades to condemn these meetings in the strongest possible terms," Eid said, urging that people write to Sinn Féin leaders and "even disrupt any future visits by Israeli officials."

"War criminals and racist organizations should not be welcomed in the new Ireland," Eid added.

"I personally met with the Sinn Féin delegation headed by Gerry Adams after the 2009 Israeli attack on Gaza, and the support they showed at the time was enormous," Eid said. "They even welcomed our BDS – boycott, divestment and sanctions – call and promised to take the issue further upon their return to Ireland."

Eid expressed outrage that Sinn Féin is now receiving delegations from "one of the most racist parties in Israel, one that openly calls for ethnic cleansing and apartheid and whose ministers have committed war crimes in Israel's latest attack on Gaza in 2014."

He praised Irish activists for their strong support of Palestine: "Our ties with the Irish people are an example of what true solidarity means. Irish civil society sectors including trade unions have heeded our call for BDS."

That solidarity has always gone both ways, Eid said: "Irish people had our support when they needed it. Sinn Féin leaders know this very well."

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/palestinians-urge-sinn-fein-end-likud-meetings



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 01:23:58 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 11:45:48 AM
Go ask Sinn Fein who gave them permission to cross the picket line and talk with Netanyahu's Likud party.

The Palestinians can talk to whoever they want because it's their struggle.

They didn't ask nor did they instruct Sinn Fein to talk to the Zionists who currently murder them by the thousands.

So you're saying the PLO can speak to Likud but SF can't. Yeah that makes a lot of sense alright.

What part of "Sinn Fein are not the PLO" do you not get?

What part of "No one asked Sinn Fein to talk to Likud do you not get?"

What part of BDS do you not get?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AZOffaly on August 19, 2016, 01:29:16 PM
But why would a neutral party need to get permission to speak to one of the parties in the dispute? I'm still not getting it. It sounds as if they are part of a global movement putting pressure on Israel (which is great) but are also talking to Likud in the background to try and assess the current situation. It might be a bit stupid not to just say to the Palestinians 'we're going to see what these lads want', but it's hardly heinous. I'd only see a major problem if they were purporting to represent the Palestinians, or that they were mandated to negotiate it on their behalf.

It just appears that the Palestinians don't like the fact that Sinn Fein spoke to Likud members, but I don't see it as being treacherous.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 01:31:36 PM
Palestinian officials are calling for an immediate halt to any form of Israeli-Palestinian meetings


By KHALED ABU TOAMEH  07/28/2015

PLO leaders are scheduled to hold a meeting in Ramallah in the coming days to discuss reports about secret meetings between Palestinian and Israeli officials.

Jamil Shehadeh, member of the PLO Executive Committee, said that he and his colleagues were surprised to hear about the meetings.

"The Executive Committee will demand answers concerning the meetings with the Israelis," Shehadeh said. He pointed out that the Palestinian leadership had decided to refrain from holding such meetings, especially in the aftermath of the "increased Israeli aggression against the Palestinians."


Shehadeh claimed that under the current circumstances the Israeli government would not meet any of the Palestinian conditions for the resumption of the peace talks, particularly a full cessation of construction in settlements and the release of Palestinian prisoners.

"The next meeting of the PLO Executive Committee will be an important one," he said. "We will discuss a number of issues, including the latest developments in the Palestinian arena, reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas and international efforts to revive the peace process." He did not say when the meeting would take place.

Another senior PLO official, Tayseer Khaled, called on Tuesday for an immediate halt to Israeli-Palestinian meetings, which, he said, were taking place behind the back of the Palestinian leading institutions.

Khaled complained that the secret meetings, especially the last one between PLO Secretary-General Saeb Erekat and Interior Minister Silvan Shalom in Jordan, were in violation of decisions taken by the PLO Executive Committee and Central Council.

He noted that the two PLO bodies had emphasized that the resumption of the peace talks requires an Israeli commitment to stop all settlement activities in the West Bank and Jerusalem and honor international laws and resolutions.

Khaled said that the secret meetings cause grave damage to the interests of the Palestinians and offer a free service to the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu "which is facing international pressure and isolation."

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/PLO-to-investigate-reports-of-secret-talks-between-Palestinian-and-Israeli-officials-410436
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 01:40:55 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 19, 2016, 01:29:16 PM
But why would a neutral party need to get permission to speak to one of the parties in the dispute? I'm still not getting it. It sounds as if they are part of a global movement putting pressure on Israel (which is great) but are also talking to Likud in the background to try and assess the current situation. It might be a bit stupid not to just say to the Palestinians 'we're going to see what these lads want', but it's hardly heinous. I'd only see a major problem if they were purporting to represent the Palestinians, or that they were mandated to negotiate it on their behalf.

It just appears that the Palestinians don't like the fact that Sinn Fein spoke to Likud members, but I don't see it as being treacherous.

AZ, there is a global Boycott campaign and Sinn Fein broke that. They then started saying  that the Palestinians knew that they were meeting Likud and others, and had no problem. And when they couldn't get a single Palestinian to come forward to back this claim up, they have now taken on a position of we know best, and we didn't need their permission to speak to Netanyahu's murderous war machine.

Nowhere in any meetings or reports of these meetings does it show anyone how Sinn Fein were speaking on behalf of the Palestinians. it was all about them and the peace process. Likud have no interest in peace, and never will. They are a ultra Zionist group who believe all the land of Palestine was given to them by God and they are back to re claim it.

Now ask yourself this, is sending in a couple of lads who have never been to Palestine going to make one bit of difference in the eyes of the Likud party? Is Netanyahu going to change his position after that meeting?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 01:23:58 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 11:45:48 AM
Go ask Sinn Fein who gave them permission to cross the picket line and talk with Netanyahu's Likud party.

The Palestinians can talk to whoever they want because it's their struggle.

They didn't ask nor did they instruct Sinn Fein to talk to the Zionists who currently murder them by the thousands.

So you're saying the PLO can speak to Likud but SF can't. Yeah that makes a lot of sense alright.

What part of "Sinn Fein are not the PLO" do you not get?

What part of "No one asked Sinn Fein to talk to Likud do you not get?"

What part of BDS do you not get?

No need for the aggression Dixie, I just fail to see the logic in someone saying well we can meet them but you can't. You say no one asked them to meet Likud, does this mean SF asked for the meeting or is it possible that Likud asked for the meeting (or maybe just someone else you don't like)?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 01:52:05 PM
Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) is a Palestinian-led movement for freedom, justice and equality. BDS upholds the simple principle that Palestinians are entitled to the same rights as the rest of humanity.

Israel is occupying and colonising Palestinian land, discriminating against Palestinian citizens of Israel and denying Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes. Inspired by the South African anti-apartheid movement, the BDS call urges action to pressure Israel to comply with international law.

BDS is now a vibrant global movement made up of unions, academic associations, churches and grassroots movements across the world. Eleven years since its launch, BDS is having a major impact and is effectively challenging international support for Israeli apartheid and settler-colonialism

In 2005, Palestinian civil society organisations called for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) as a form of non-violent pressure on Israel.

The BDS movement was launched by 170 Palestinian unions, political parties, refugee networks, women's organisations, professional associations, popular resistance committees and other Palestinian civil society bodies.

https://bdsmovement.net/what-is-bds
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 01:23:58 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2016, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 11:45:48 AM
Go ask Sinn Fein who gave them permission to cross the picket line and talk with Netanyahu's Likud party.

The Palestinians can talk to whoever they want because it's their struggle.

They didn't ask nor did they instruct Sinn Fein to talk to the Zionists who currently murder them by the thousands.

So you're saying the PLO can speak to Likud but SF can't. Yeah that makes a lot of sense alright.

What part of "Sinn Fein are not the PLO" do you not get?

What part of "No one asked Sinn Fein to talk to Likud do you not get?"

What part of BDS do you not get?

No need for the aggression Dixie, I just fail to see the logic in someone saying well we can meet them but you can't. You say no one asked them to meet Likud, does this mean SF asked for the meeting or is it possible that Likud asked for the meeting (or maybe just someone else you don't like)?

Given your support for Sinn Fein and my anger at their selling the the Palestinians, I will be as aggressive as I like.

I know what I and thousands more like me would do if they had the chance to meet members of Netanyahu's Likud party.   

Israel use these meetings to white wash their crimes. These meetings make them look respectable, and then they can use the meetings as a way of lying to the world that they are interested in peace. Netanyahu ran and was elected to Government on a
commitment that there would never be a Palestinian state.

Israel have been having their puppets in the US to use whatever power and influence they have to stop the BDS campaign because of it's global success. Sinn Fein are more worried about their relationships in the US than they ever will about the Palestinians.   

The big pay cheques come from the US and not Palestine. He who pays the monkey calls the tune......

Sinn Fein have been making political capital from the Palestinians for years now, and finally they have been caught out on the world stage. Their so called reputation regarding Palestine is in shreds.

The fact that not one, and I repeat, not one Palestinian has come forward to support them on these meetings tells us all we need to know. They are on their own, and they know it...........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on August 19, 2016, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 02:02:10 PM
Given your support for Sinn Fein and my anger at their selling the the Palestinians, I will be as aggressive as I like.

I know what I and thousands more like me would do if they had the chance to meet members of Netanyahu's Likud party.   

Israel use these meetings to white wash their crimes. These meetings make them look respectable, and then they can use the meetings as a way of lying to the world that they are interested in peace. Netanyahu ran and was elected to Government on a
commitment that there would never be a Palestinian state.

Israel have been having their puppets in the US to use whatever power and influence they have to stop the BDS campaign because of it's global success. Sinn Fein are more worried about their relationships in the US than they ever will about the Palestinians.   

The big pay cheques come from the US and not Palestine. He who pays the monkey calls the tune......

Sinn Fein have been making political capital from the Palestinians for years now, and finally they have been caught out on the world stage. Their so called reputation regarding Palestine is in shreds.

The fact that not one, and I repeat, not one Palestinian has come forward to support them on these meetings tells us all we need to know. They are on their own, and they know it...........

Sinn Fein - Does exactly what it says on the tin
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 02:10:26 PM
30 years ago Sinn Fein protested against a proposed visit to Ireland by Israeli President Chaim Herzog. They said his visit will be "part of a propaganda campaign to win support for the racist state of Israel".

Fast forward a few years and Gerry Adams is flying directly to Tel Aviv to meet his Zionist son Isaac, leader of the Israeli Labour party, and cheerleader for the brutal attacks on Gaza 2 years ago.

Labour party members, along with those in Netanyahu's Zionist Likud party, are now frequent visitors to Ireland to meet Gerry Adams and members of Sinn Fein, Sure no one from the party even protests at these meetings any more. Even Israeli Ambassadors get to come back and forward to Ireland and Sinn Fein accept their gifts and entertain them.

By doing so, Sinn Fein are now leading the "propaganda campaign to win support for the racist state of Israel".

A position they once opposed. Yet they try to tell everyone they support BDS..........

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13939533_1225713760792372_708177042625047865_n.jpg?oh=71addb3d0952e6fd7bada6cd5bce4c28&oe=58447D77)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 02:20:10 PM
Following his visit to Gaza a couple of months after I was 1st there, Gerry Adams went to the US Consul in Belfast acting the big fella by telling lies.......

He claimed he told Hamas in Gaza "that rocket attacks were nonsense and should stop."

Considering the only thing Hamas had to defend their people in Gaza during a 3 week murderous assault was the rockets,
for Adams to say he told them they were nonsense just beggars belief.

There is not a hope in hell he said such a thing to Hamas, and if he did, he would have been brought to the border and told to leave.

Again, another meeting that was kept secret until Wiki leaks published it......

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BELFAST29_a.html

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on August 19, 2016, 02:44:23 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 02:20:10 PM
Following his visit to Gaza a couple of months after I was 1st there, Gerry Adams went to the US Consul in Belfast acting the big fella by telling lies.......

He claimed he told Hamas in Gaza "that rocket attacks were nonsense and should stop."

Considering the only thing Hamas had to defend their people in Gaza during a 3 week murderous assault was the rockets,
for Adams to say he told them they were nonsense just beggars belief.

There is not a hope in hell he said such a thing to Hamas, and if he did, he would have been brought to the border and told to leave.

Again, another meeting that was kept secret until Wiki leaks published it......

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BELFAST29_a.html

Would you not agree that this is correct?  I totally support the Palestinians but would contend that every rocket fired by Hamas (and subsequently reported to death by the Israelis and their cronies) does a dam sight more for the "propaganda campaign to win support for the racist state of Israel" than anything else?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 19, 2016, 02:44:23 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 02:20:10 PM
Following his visit to Gaza a couple of months after I was 1st there, Gerry Adams went to the US Consul in Belfast acting the big fella by telling lies.......

He claimed he told Hamas in Gaza "that rocket attacks were nonsense and should stop."

Considering the only thing Hamas had to defend their people in Gaza during a 3 week murderous assault was the rockets,
for Adams to say he told them they were nonsense just beggars belief.

There is not a hope in hell he said such a thing to Hamas, and if he did, he would have been brought to the border and told to leave.

Again, another meeting that was kept secret until Wiki leaks published it......

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BELFAST29_a.html

Would you not agree that this is correct?  I totally support the Palestinians but would contend that every rocket fired by Hamas (and subsequently reported to death by the Israelis and their cronies) does a dam sight more for the "propaganda campaign to win support for the racist state of Israel" than anything else?

Franko, what were the Palestinians meant to do when for 3 weeks they were bombed by land sea and air by Israel. What should they have done? Used bow and arrows? Water pistols? spit at them? Give them the fingers? Stick their tongue out at them?

The Palestinians have every right to defend themselves against Israel whenever they come on another murderous campaign.

If all they have to use is home made rockets, then so be it. It's not up to me or Gerry Adams to call them nonsense whenever they are under attack.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 03:03:40 PM
One of the articles you posted is around a couple of Israeli students (it mentions nothing about Young Likud or anything else) meeting with councillors, including sinn fein one, in Belfast. What exactly, other than racism, is your issue with this?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on August 19, 2016, 03:06:36 PM
So who has McKay been sacrificed for in Sinn Fein ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on August 19, 2016, 03:07:49 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 19, 2016, 02:44:23 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 02:20:10 PM
Following his visit to Gaza a couple of months after I was 1st there, Gerry Adams went to the US Consul in Belfast acting the big fella by telling lies.......

He claimed he told Hamas in Gaza "that rocket attacks were nonsense and should stop."

Considering the only thing Hamas had to defend their people in Gaza during a 3 week murderous assault was the rockets,
for Adams to say he told them they were nonsense just beggars belief.

There is not a hope in hell he said such a thing to Hamas, and if he did, he would have been brought to the border and told to leave.

Again, another meeting that was kept secret until Wiki leaks published it......

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BELFAST29_a.html

Would you not agree that this is correct?  I totally support the Palestinians but would contend that every rocket fired by Hamas (and subsequently reported to death by the Israelis and their cronies) does a dam sight more for the "propaganda campaign to win support for the racist state of Israel" than anything else?

Franko, what were the Palestinians meant to do when for 3 weeks they were bombed by land sea and air by Israel. What should they have done? Used bow and arrows? Water pistols? spit at them? Give them the fingers? Stick their tongue out at them?

The Palestinians have every right to defend themselves against Israel whenever they come on another murderous campaign.

If all they have to use is home made rockets, then so be it. It's not up to me or Gerry Adams to call them nonsense whenever they are under attack.

For all the use the rockets are they may as well do the things you mentioned.  Firing these rockets causes just about as much damage to the Israelis but gives their propaganda machine their ace card when justifying their murderous campaigns internationally.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on August 19, 2016, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 19, 2016, 03:06:36 PM
So who has McKay been sacrificed for in Sinn Fein ?

Careful now you don't want to piss off Wee Marty/Ulick!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 19, 2016, 03:35:19 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 03:03:40 PM
One of the articles you posted is around a couple of Israeli students (it mentions nothing about Young Likud or anything else) meeting with councillors, including sinn fein one, in Belfast. What exactly, other than racism, is your issue with this?

Ok Gallsman, here you go.

Likud youth activist delegation hold meetings in Belfast 26th 30th June 2016

Between the 26th – 30th June, Forward Thinking facilitated a series of meetings for a delegation of young Israeli activists from the Likud party in Belfast. This visit was organised as part of the Irish Peace Process Programme – an initiative which brings delegations from key constituencies in Israel to Northern Ireland to discuss experiences of the conflict and peace process. Israeli delegations are exposed to leading figures from both Unionist and Republican communities,  not so they can hear a prescriptive model on how to achieve peace, but rather to take part in an ongoing dialogue on the challenges, successes and failures of Northern Ireland's process and, from this, to explore the key themes that they identify as relevant and beneficial to their own context.

Across the four days of the visit, the delegation held intensive discussions with a number of groups, including with Members of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) and councillors, young party activists, academics, members of civil society, former paramilitaries, and victims of violence.

http://www.forward-thinking.org/?p=3357


And here is another meeting Sinn Fein held with Zionist groups ......

On the 16th May, Forward Thinking facilitated a series of meetings for a cross-party delegation of Knesset Members (MKs) in Belfast. The MKs spanned Israel's political spectrum and included representatives from Shas, Kulanu, Labour and Joint List.

The MKs met with a variety of individuals throughout the day including a cross-party group from the Legislative Assembly (MLAs) and the Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness.

http://www.forward-thinking.org/index.php?cat=4&paged=5


Forward Thinking facilitated a delegation of Likud campaigners and activists on a visit to Belfast, where they met with key figures from within the Northern Ireland conflict and peace process. They met with a range of people, including academics, youth groups, British and Irish government representatives, senior police officers and republican and unionist Members of the Legislative Assembly. The meetings provided an opportunity for the group to explore the various experiences of the Northern Ireland peace process, and the challenges involved in pursuing and maintaining a peace agreement.

(http://www.forward-thinking.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Delegation-with-Pat-Sheehan-MLA.jpg)

Do you want any more evidence of Sinn Fein meeting Zionist Israeli groups, politicians, or Ambassadors?

Or will you sit back and call me a racist for telling the truth?

I have more details, links and photos, so wind your neck in.......

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 04:51:37 PM
The article you linked to showed some students meeting with then Lord Mayor of Belfast MO'M. That wasn't 2016 and the article mentions nothing about Likud whatsoever. You referenced this specific article, so obviously something in it has upset you. Again I ask, what? Man meets Israelis?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 04:51:37 PM
The article you linked to showed some students meeting with then Lord Mayor of Belfast MO'M. That wasn't 2016 and the article mentions nothing about Likud whatsoever. You referenced this specific article, so obviously something in it has upset you. Again I ask, what? Man meets Israelis?

Sorry, I had to go back 6 pages and after everything that has been going on in the past week i'm sure you will forgive me
for not catching your drift seeing as we were still talking about the lads with the IDF / Likud members in the photo.....

So, to address this meeting with the soon to be former Finance Minister and 2 Israeli students,, let me refer you to what Sinn Fein had to say no sooner than this week while on a damage limitation / PR exercise in Palestine on an Academic Boycott of Israel,  among other things........

Speaking after a series of meetings with human rights groups based in the West Bank Senator Paul Gavan said:

"We have heard personal testimony this week of extra judicial state killings, torture, imprisonment of children, mass scale internment, house demolitions and systematic racial discrimination on a scale not seen since the days of Apartheid South Africa.

"We have a duty to stand up for the Palestinian people.

"Talk is not enough – we need action. A simple way to make a real difference would be to sign up to the BDS Campaign.

"We have met with the campaign leaders and know that it is working. A cultural, academic and economic boycott of Israel is the most effective peaceful way of bringing that about.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/41210


Sure I couldn't explain it any better myself, and sure as you can see, Marty boy crossed the picket line with the pair of Israeli's..........

And that's before we even start to ask why are Sinn Fein co operating with "Northern Ireland Friends Of Israel" ?

Do they not know that in their rush to feel important that Israel is using these images to white wash their crimes in Palestine?

(https://nifriendsofisrael.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/lord-mayor-yedida-and-paz.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 02:15:19 AM
And because I don't really have the time to reply to everything that is going to be said, remember this
as your bench mark before responding.

I have asked the leadership of Sinn Fein to tell not only me, but their members of their parties, their voters,
and most importantly of all, the Palestinians who in Palestine or outside of it gave them permission to entertain
members of the party who were responsible for the mass slaugher only a couple of years ago?

To date, not one Palestinian or Palestinian group have come forward to say they support them.

And trust me folks, I know.

As I have said before, this was as olo run, and they have been caught withtheir trousers down.

While i can defend myself all day long on here, i'm quite prepared to go on any national media outlet and call them out.

They have sold the Palestinian cause for far too long in order to get support and i'm sick of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 02:25:22 AM
I posted this photo and remarks earlier this evening. While i get a dig in at the start, I speak honestly.......




(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14095915_10154453158069314_4186467806718739708_n.jpg?oh=7a0ebaee1184372df96fc0c1047a94c5&oe=5818D8E3)



When you're doing that much Peace Processing all over the world, it must be an easy enough mistake to say you are with Uachtaran Assad of Syria.

However, in reality you are with the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who is standing in front of a Palestinian flag.

I suppose between the brutal siege on Gaza, the murderous occupation in the West Bank, the Apartheid wall, the check points, and the settlements, among other daily hardships the Palestinians go through, they will get around some day to getting a better Wifi signal for you.

Gerry, having only been to Gaza and to West Donegal, I can assure you, West Donegal is not like the occupied West Bank.

And why did you not tweet a photo with yourself and Issac Herzog, the leader of the Israeli Labour Party who was a cheerleader for the mass slaughter in Gaza just a couple of months before this photo was taken?

You met him first thing after you got of the plane in Tel Aviv.

And this is a very valid question. How is it Netanyahu didn't allow you to go to Gaza, yet for over a year several members of your party have been entertaining members of his Zionist Likud Party in Ireland?

Why did nobody in your party that knew they were coming alert the thousands of people who stood and marched in solidarity with the people of Gaza just a year before?

Why did we not get a chance to once again show in our thousands our solidarity with the Palestinians and protest at the visit of members of the Party that killed and injured 10,000 Palestinians just a year before in Gaza?

And I know for fact, that the vast majority of your members would be standing shoulder to shoulder with us all, no matter what our differences, as we gave Netanyahu's Zionist Likud party members the welcome they truly deserved.

And it wouldn't be anything like the one they got from senior members of your party, and the youth wing. How do the lads you sent to meet the Likud youth feel about meeting IDF soldiers who could have been in Gaza 2 years before? .

It's way past the time that Sinn Fein stop treating Palestine as a political hobby horse. It's not a selfie for fucks sake. It's an on going genocide and firing out press releases saying how much you love Palestine isn't doing anything to help. Seriously folks.

Please show some leadership on this not only for the sake of everyone who voted for you and are disgusted, but for the Palestinians. If ever they needed our help, they need it now.

Cut of all ties with this Zionist entity, Listen to what the Palestinians have to say and not what you have to say to the Israelis or to the USA. Fully endorse and support the Palestinian calls for BDS and show some leadership to your voters and members. None of whom support these secret meetings.

Over the past week two serious calls came from Gaza and from the West Bank asking us to increase our efforts to enforce the BDS, and also to ask you to stop these meetings and to cut of all ties.

They also spoke of how much the solidarity from Ireland over the years has meant to them as they live under a decades long occupation and many brutal wars.

If you saw the same things I saw in Gaza Gerry a couple of months after I was there, then you would be doing everything in your power to help. I know I am, and everyone of the thousands of people like me who have been there and bore witness to the horrific conditions. It's a prison camp, and you know it.

We owe it to the Palestinians to isolate Israel in every way we can until they end this brutal occupation, mass murder and bring this 10 year old siege to an end.

And we need to do all we can.to help.

We owe that much to the Palestinians, and to humanity

Viva Palestina........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 09:14:32 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 04:51:37 PM
The article you linked to showed some students meeting with then Lord Mayor of Belfast MO'M. That wasn't 2016 and the article mentions nothing about Likud whatsoever. You referenced this specific article, so obviously something in it has upset you. Again I ask, what? Man meets Israelis?

Sorry, I had to go back 6 pages and after everything that has been going on in the past week i'm sure you will forgive me
for not catching your drift seeing as we were still talking about the lads with the IDF / Likud members in the photo.....

So, to address this meeting with the soon to be former Finance Minister and 2 Israeli students,, let me refer you to what Sinn Fein had to say no sooner than this week while on a damage limitation / PR exercise in Palestine on an Academic Boycott of Israel,  among other things........

Well no, not really. I made it clear at the outset that I wasn't talking about the IDF or politicians from Likud or any other party. You still decided to go on your rant about Sinn Fein's betrayal of the Palestinian people (which I don't dispute) and blather on about Zionists.

Take a step back. Who gives a f**k whether it was organised by NI Friends of Israel, Combat 18, the DUP or whoever, some students are visiting Belfast. Referring only to this specific activity, you think there's a problem here because it's crossing the picket line of an academic boycott? You don't think there might be problems with that aspect of the boycott at all, where a politician and statesman "should" refuse to meet with a couple of students ON THE SOLE GROUNDS that they are Israeli?! Does that not strike you as massively racist, no?!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 01:26:23 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 09:14:32 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 19, 2016, 04:51:37 PM
The article you linked to showed some students meeting with then Lord Mayor of Belfast MO'M. That wasn't 2016 and the article mentions nothing about Likud whatsoever. You referenced this specific article, so obviously something in it has upset you. Again I ask, what? Man meets Israelis?

Sorry, I had to go back 6 pages and after everything that has been going on in the past week i'm sure you will forgive me
for not catching your drift seeing as we were still talking about the lads with the IDF / Likud members in the photo.....

So, to address this meeting with the soon to be former Finance Minister and 2 Israeli students,, let me refer you to what Sinn Fein had to say no sooner than this week while on a damage limitation / PR exercise in Palestine on an Academic Boycott of Israel,  among other things........

Well no, not really. I made it clear at the outset that I wasn't talking about the IDF or politicians from Likud or any other party. You still decided to go on your rant about Sinn Fein's betrayal of the Palestinian people (which I don't dispute) and blather on about Zionists.

Take a step back. Who gives a f**k whether it was organised by NI Friends of Israel, Combat 18, the DUP or whoever, some students are visiting Belfast. Referring only to this specific activity, you think there's a problem here because it's crossing the picket line of an academic boycott? You don't think there might be problems with that aspect of the boycott at all, where a politician and statesman "should" refuse to meet with a couple of students ON THE SOLE GROUNDS that they are Israeli?! Does that not strike you as massively racist, no?!

So, if i'm racist for calling for the boycott of 2 Israeli students visiting on a white washing exercise, then what does that
make everyone else who is against breaking the academic boycott? Including Sinn Fein who are calling for an academic boycott?

As I have stated before, Sinn Fein are seriously exposed on something very very serious in not only the eyes of their supporters, but the Palestinians. They sold out......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 02:38:20 PM
You still haven't told me - what is your problem with someone (yes Sinn Fein politicians included) meeting some students who happen to be Israeli, other than the fact they are Israeli?

As for the academic boycott, perhaps you can clarify the trend of the boycott a little bit. What exactly does it mean? By meeting two students (MO'M is a smart guy but I doubt he was collaborating on nuclear research with them), what term of the boycott has been breached?

I've a lot of time for your efforts Dixie and God knows I agree with you the vast majority of the time, but this is the kind of racist shite that can really betray a good cause.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 02:38:20 PM
You still haven't told me - what is your problem with someone (yes Sinn Fein politicians included) meeting some students who happen to be Israeli, other than the fact they are Israeli?

As for the academic boycott, perhaps you can clarify the trend of the boycott a little bit. What exactly does it mean? By meeting two students (MO'M is a smart guy but I doubt he was collaborating on nuclear research with them), what term of the boycott has been breached?

I've a lot of time for your efforts Dixie and God knows I agree with you the vast majority of the time, but this is the kind of racist shite that can really betray a good cause.

Can you please explain to me how i'm been racist? Do you understand the principles of the BDS movement?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 02:44:46 PM
Israeli universities are major, willing and persistent accomplices in Israel's regime of occupation, settler-colonialism and apartheid.

They are involved in developing weapon systems and military doctrines deployed in Israel's recent war crimes in Lebanon and Gaza, justifying the ongoing colonization of Palestinian land, rationalizing gradual ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians, providing moral justification for extra-judicial killings, systematically discriminating against "non-Jewish" students, and other implicit and explicit violations of human rights and international law.

To end this complicity in Israel's violations of international law, Palestinian civil society has called for an academic boycott of complicit Israeli academic institutions. Refusing to normalize oppression, many academic associations, student governments and unions as well as thousands of international academics now support the academic boycott of Israel.

https://bdsmovement.net/academic-boycott
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 03:21:34 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 02:38:20 PM
You still haven't told me - what is your problem with someone (yes Sinn Fein politicians included) meeting some students who happen to be Israeli, other than the fact they are Israeli?

As for the academic boycott, perhaps you can clarify the trend of the boycott a little bit. What exactly does it mean? By meeting two students (MO'M is a smart guy but I doubt he was collaborating on nuclear research with them), what term of the boycott has been breached?

I've a lot of time for your efforts Dixie and God knows I agree with you the vast majority of the time, but this is the kind of racist shite that can really betray a good cause.

Can you please explain to me how i'm been racist? Do you understand the principles of the BDS movement?

Because you are advocating shunning people (people, Dixie. Human beings. Not prime ministers, not IDF generals. Students. Kids.) for no other reason than the fact they are Israeli. Do you not think that's racist?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 03:29:21 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 03:21:34 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 02:38:20 PM
You still haven't told me - what is your problem with someone (yes Sinn Fein politicians included) meeting some students who happen to be Israeli, other than the fact they are Israeli?

As for the academic boycott, perhaps you can clarify the trend of the boycott a little bit. What exactly does it mean? By meeting two students (MO'M is a smart guy but I doubt he was collaborating on nuclear research with them), what term of the boycott has been breached?

I've a lot of time for your efforts Dixie and God knows I agree with you the vast majority of the time, but this is the kind of racist shite that can really betray a good cause.

Can you please explain to me how i'm been racist? Do you understand the principles of the BDS movement?

Because you are advocating shunning people (people, Dixie. Human beings. Not prime ministers, not IDF generals. Students. Kids.) for no other reason than the fact they are Israeli. Do you not think that's racist?

Let me spell it out for you. These 2 students were in Belfast in conjunction with "Northern Ireland Friends Of Israel", with the approval no doubt of the Israeli Government. They were here on a white washing exercise. This is what Israel do.

Why are Sinn Fein and Marty boy playing these games?

Why are they always involved in "Northern Ireland Friends Of Israel" events and meetings with Israeli Ambassadors, Deputy Ambassadors, and officials? And why are they entertaining Netanyahu's zionist party members on a regular basis?

If these had of been 2 students from Israel who walked in of the street on holiday then that would be a different story.

However, they were here on official Israeli white washing business and Marty boy stepped over the picket line.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 03:29:21 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 03:21:34 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 02:38:20 PM
You still haven't told me - what is your problem with someone (yes Sinn Fein politicians included) meeting some students who happen to be Israeli, other than the fact they are Israeli?

As for the academic boycott, perhaps you can clarify the trend of the boycott a little bit. What exactly does it mean? By meeting two students (MO'M is a smart guy but I doubt he was collaborating on nuclear research with them), what term of the boycott has been breached?

I've a lot of time for your efforts Dixie and God knows I agree with you the vast majority of the time, but this is the kind of racist shite that can really betray a good cause.

Can you please explain to me how i'm been racist? Do you understand the principles of the BDS movement?

Because you are advocating shunning people (people, Dixie. Human beings. Not prime ministers, not IDF generals. Students. Kids.) for no other reason than the fact they are Israeli. Do you not think that's racist?

Let me spell it out for you. These 2 students were in Belfast in conjunction with "Northern Ireland Friends Of Israel", with the approval no doubt of the Israeli Government. Speculation. Put up or shut up. They were here on a white washing exercise. Speculation. Put up or shut up. This is what Israel do.

Why are Sinn Fein and Marty boy playing these games? They weren't here to meet with SF or Marty. They met with people across board and M'OM met with them in capacity as Lord Mayor.

Why are they always involved in "Northern Ireland Friends Of Israel" events and meetings with Israeli Ambassadors, Deputy Ambassadors, and officials? And why are they entertaining Netanyahu's zionist party members on a regular basis? Irrelevant to the case of these two students

If these had of been 2 students from Israel who walked in of the street on holiday then that would be a different story.

However, they were here on official Israeli white washing business, again, put up evidence or shut the f**k up and Marty boy stepped over the picket line.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 04:12:09 PM
Once again Gallsman, this is an Israeli exercise in white washing their crimes and making them look acceptable to the world.
This is what "Northern Ireland Friends Of Israel" had to say about the trip:

Belfast Lord Mayor, Councillor Máirtín Ó Muilleoir, welcomed student visitors from Israel to City Hall on Tuesday 12 November. The two students were in Belfast to meet young people from across the city in a visit organised by Northern Ireland Friends of Israel. The aim of the visit is to promote dialogue between young people in Northern Ireland and Israel. The Lord Mayor is pictured with Paz Ben-Nissan (on the Lord Mayor's left) and Yedida Jacobs.

https://nifriendsofisrael.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/israeli-students-welcomed-in-belfast/

This was how the Jewish Chronicle had to say about their visit:

Israeli teens counter 'stupid' Irish boycott call

By Marcus Dysch, November 14, 2013

Two Israeli schoolchildren have toured Northern Ireland in a bid to combat anti-Israel activity.

Yedida Jacobs and Paz Ben-Nissan, both 17, spoke to youth groups and school pupils and met political leaders during the five-day visit. They stressed the need for people to talk about the Middle East conflict, and repeatedly said they were opposed to boycotts.

Their trip was co-ordinated by the Northern Ireland Friends of Israel (Nifi) advocacy group as a response to an academic boycott of Israel imposed by the Teachers Union of Ireland in April.

As part of the ban, union members voted to end educational exchanges between Israeli and Irish pupils.

Miss Jacobs, a biochemistry student from Jerusalem, said: "Without taking part in dialogue, we cannot move forward. Paz and I are too young even to vote; we cannot influence the situation in Israel. A boycott on us seems unfair."

On Monday evening, around 300 people, including Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Theresa Villiers and members of the Northern Ireland Assembly, attended a Kristallnacht memorial event at Belfast Synagogue at which the Israeli students spoke.

Mr Ben-Nissan, from Ramot Meir, in central Israel, said: "The TUI has crossed the line by trying to boycott schools. It's stupid of them. We need dialogue and this has been the best way to achieve it."

A Nifi spokesman said: "The TUI move flies in the face of our own experience of peace-building in Northern Ireland. But the reaction to the boycott call has been a near unanimous resolve to engage with young people in the cause of peace."

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/113184/israeli-teens-counter-stupid%E2%80%99-irish-boycott-call

This is the Belfast Telegraph reporting on their visit

A teachers' union has been criticised for calling for an academic boycott of Israel as students from the Jewish state met local political representatives at Stormont yesterday.

Yedida Jacobs and Paz Ben-Nissan will also meet Belfast Lord Mayor Mairtin O Muilleoir at City Hall this morning.

    Share

The 17-year-olds are on a whistle-stop tour of the province organised by Northern Ireland Friends of Israel.

Steven Jaffe, the group's co-chairman, used the visit to highlight a call by the Republic's Teachers' Union of Ireland for an academic boycott of Israel.

The union called for a cessation of all cultural and academic collaboration between Israel and Ireland, including student exchanges.

Mr Jaffe said the call was a bid to ban any cultural exchanges between the two countries, irrespective of the politics of the individuals involved.

Yedida and Paz said they could not understand the move by the teaching union.
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Asked about their impressions, Yedida said: "I was surprised to see how alive the conflict still is here – to see the graffiti. We have heard that there are Israeli and Palestinian flags here, which is strange.

"But it's been very inspiring to see that people here have a lot of hope for peace," she added.

Asked what their hopes are for their country, Yedida and Paz replied: "To have peace in the region."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/israeli-students-in-belfast-visit-as-teaching-unions-call-for-boycott-criticised-29745533.html

Is that enough evidence for you on why they were here, and how Marty boy crossed the picket line and allowed himself and his party to be used as a tool for white washing Israel ?

MArty boy crossed the picket line and I'm putting my years of solidarity work on the line in saying that. And I stand over that statement, and you can tell Marty boy that from me if you know him.

And the same for any of the other quislings in the party who have crossed the picket line in entertaining the people responsible for the on going genocide in Palestine.

I'm no racist, and don't ever tell me to shut the f**k up without putting your name to it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 04:36:43 PM
So, the articles you've produced say they were here to encourage dialogue, to promote peace. Your articles, not mine. Where does it say anything about "white washing"?

Your f**king embarrassing yourself here. You're not racist yet happily promote racism against a pair of kids. Well done you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 04:36:43 PM
So, the articles you've produced say they were here to encourage dialogue, to promote peace. Your articles, not mine. Where does it say anything about "white washing"?

Your f**king embarrassing yourself here. You're not racist yet happily promote racism against a pair of kids. Well done you.

Can you show me any evidence of Israel encouraging dialogue and promoting peace in Palestine as it carries out it's ongoing policy of Genocide?

Did I not clearly state in the article that they were here to combat the BDS movement?

And have I not clearly stated that Sinn Fein are calling for the very same Boycott that they are here to oppose?

As for you calling them a pair of kids, at this stage in their lives they are members of the IDF and we all know what they are up to in occupied Palestine..........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 04:58:24 PM
I don't give a flying f**k who or what they are now. Your issue was with them being received in 2013 as 17 kids. Or are you now denying they were kids? All Israelis are just opposite waiting to grow up, is that it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 05:11:53 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 04:58:24 PM
I don't give a flying f**k who or what they are now. Your issue was with them being received in 2013 as 17 kids. Or are you now denying they were kids? All Israelis are just opposite waiting to grow up, is that it?

So you don't care about their role in the ongoing genocide against the Palestinian people ?

You don't care that Sinn Fein calls for an academic boycott, yet entertain the very same people who came to oppose it?

Do you really give a flying shit about the PAlestinians or are you just trying to find some kind of mud to stick to me?

Bigger and braver people before you tried this nonsense on me, and they have all faile.

You too have failed so go climb under your rock son.

If you have anything further personal to say to me, please show a pair of balls and put your name to it.

Ok?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on August 20, 2016, 05:31:45 PM
it is time SF grew up and started acting like a serious adult political party and not a pseudo revolutionary mob. They need to stop attaching themselves to every disaffected group on the planet. They have been voted in to look after the interests of the Irish people north and south time to get to it. The only reason they continue to get the bulk of the nationalist vote in the North is because the SDLP are not trusted to be a credible foil to the DUP. I think McGuinness recognises this but President for life Gerry loves being a revolutionary.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 06:35:21 PM
Tell me about their role in the genocide of Palestinians. The two students who visited Belfast in 2013. Tell me what they specifically have done. You're just embarrassing yourself now tarring everyone with the same brush.

Why do you keep asking me about Sinn Fein? I'm tackling your hypocrisy. You think calling out blind bigotry is nonsense?! Evidently I've touched a nerve.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 20, 2016, 06:55:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 06:35:21 PM
Tell me about their role in the genocide of Palestinians. The two students who visited Belfast in 2013. Tell me what they specifically have done. You're just embarrassing yourself now tarring everyone with the same brush.

Why do you keep asking me about Sinn Fein? I'm tackling your hypocrisy. You think calling out blind bigotry is nonsense?! Evidently I've touched a nerve.

May I suggest that you read this about their visit, and why they were really here.

"Two Israeli schoolchildren have toured Northern Ireland in a bid to combat anti-Israel activity.

Yedida Jacobs and Paz Ben-Nissan, both 17, spoke to youth groups and school pupils and met political leaders during the five-day visit. They stressed the need for people to talk about the Middle East conflict, and repeatedly said they were opposed to boycotts.

Their trip was co-ordinated by the Northern Ireland Friends of Israel (Nifi) advocacy group as a response to an academic boycott of Israel imposed by the Teachers Union of Ireland in April."

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on August 20, 2016, 08:33:57 PM
Israelis in not supporting anti Israeli stance shocker.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 21, 2016, 01:47:20 AM
You 2 lads want a page to yourselves here?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 24, 2016, 09:50:49 PM
And the travelling circus has got to Israel and the West Bank, only this time Pat Sheehan has brought along Jeffrey Donaldson.......

http://alhourriah.org/english/article/36486


And in the past 30 minutes, Pat has claimed that the people he and his party entertained several times in Ireland wont allow him into Gaza.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/41294

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 25, 2016, 11:08:45 AM
Gerry Adams sending Christams cards to the Israeli Ambassador in Ireland....

Isn't he the great friend of Palestine eh?

http://clareherald.com/2016/08/mckee-comments-criticised-by-israeli-group/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on August 25, 2016, 11:37:47 AM
Are Sinn Fein now pro-Israeli?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: winghalfback on August 25, 2016, 12:09:37 PM
Some drivel talked on this page.

Dixie are you JH in disguise?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 25, 2016, 12:21:08 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 25, 2016, 11:37:47 AM
Are Sinn Fein now pro-Israeli?

They are riding 2 horses at once on the Palestine / Israel question.

One the one hand they want their voters and supporters to believe they are very much pro Palestinian, and then on the other, they are trying to impress their donors and friends in the US that they are been even handed.

Like everything else in their world, they stand for nothing and fall for everything.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 25, 2016, 01:06:51 PM
Seems not everyone is singing off Dixies hymn-sheet though

(http://i.imgur.com/awWoCHm.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 25, 2016, 01:26:10 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 25, 2016, 01:06:51 PM
Seems not everyone is singing off Dixies hymn-sheet though

(http://i.imgur.com/awWoCHm.jpg)

Is that the best you can come up with?

This is a statement from the PFLP whose member Bilal Kayed just ended a 71 day hunger strike.

In response to the hole that Sinn Fein found themselves in, they sent 2 reps to meet with his family and the PFLP. 

While they were there, the PFLP had this to say:

"Today, we call upon all supporters and friends of Palestine to intensify the struggle to support Bilal in this critical battle for freedom and at this time of great urgency to defend his life. He has pledged to continue this battle until freedom or death. We see you in Ireland and the immense love and dedication that you have for the Palestinian prisoners as well as your own imprisoned comrades, from the beautiful mural on the International Wall in Belfast that highlights our common struggle to the protests from Dublin to Derry to Wicklow to Belfast and elsewhere throughout the country, from the voices inside prison expressing their support for Bilal and his comrades.

This is the time to intensify the boycott of Israel and reject normalization with Israel, including Israeli state partnerships and sponsorships, arms trade with Israel, and meetings with Israel's right-wing and genocidal government and political parties.

The Palestinian prisoners have repeatedly urged the intensification of the boycott of Israel. To free the prisoners, to save Bilal, to support the Palestinian cause - international isolation of the occupier is necessary.

Freedom for Bilal and all Palestinian prisoners! Freedom for Irish republican prisoners! On the road to liberation!"


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ulick on August 25, 2016, 01:41:18 PM
"Is that the best you can come up with?"

Not at all, just spotted it on Twitter over lunch. As I said, the PLO are meeting with the Israeli's and one of the most prominent Hamas leaders yesterday seems to be endorsing Pat Sheenan's visit. However I do apologise and bow to your greater insight to all things Palestinian.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 25, 2016, 01:43:32 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 25, 2016, 01:41:18 PM
"Is that the best you can come up with?"

Not at all, just spotted it on Twitter over lunch. As I said, the PLO are meeting with the Israeli's and one of the most prominent Hamas leaders yesterday seems to be endorsing Pat Sheenan's visit. However I do apologise and bow to your greater insight to all things Palestinian.

Thanks for the apology........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on August 25, 2016, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 25, 2016, 12:21:08 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 25, 2016, 11:37:47 AM
Are Sinn Fein now pro-Israeli?

They are riding 2 horses at once on the Palestine / Israel question.

One the one hand they want their voters and supporters to believe they are very much pro Palestinian, and then on the other, they are trying to impress their donors and friends in the US that they are been even handed.

Like everything else in their world, they stand for nothing and fall for everything.....
So in other words they're just doing what political parties do?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 25, 2016, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 25, 2016, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 25, 2016, 12:21:08 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 25, 2016, 11:37:47 AM
Are Sinn Fein now pro-Israeli?

They are riding 2 horses at once on the Palestine / Israel question.

One the one hand they want their voters and supporters to believe they are very much pro Palestinian, and then on the other, they are trying to impress their donors and friends in the US that they are been even handed.

Like everything else in their world, they stand for nothing and fall for everything.....
So in other words they're just doing what political parties do?

Indeed............ 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on August 26, 2016, 10:13:17 AM
Promotional video from the "Northern Ireland friends of Israel"  where they use the meeting with
former Sinn Fein Lord Mayor Máirtín Ó Muilleoir and two Israeli students who toured Northern Ireland
in a bid to combat the Palestinian call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions of Israel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywbdtJNtVao

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on August 26, 2016, 06:55:09 PM
Article by Newton Emerson yesterday and some discussion on Slugger making the point that SF simply have feck all talent coming through
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mckay-witness-scandal-is-just-the-latest-blow-to-the-onward-march-of-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.2767283

Interesting anecdote about when the post violence generation in waiting were lost

The party had established what was in effect an undergraduate training programme for aspiring politicians, complete with course material and written exams. On January 30th, after a field trip to Derry for a Bloody Sunday commemoration, many of these young people were dropped off at a Belfast bar that was about to witness the IRA murder of Robert McCartney. The trainees did not witness it, however, nor the IRA clean-up operation that followed. In statements to police, 71 people claimed to have been in the pub's one square metre lavatory. That was the end of the programme, while only a few brief careers emerged from the Tardis toilet. It seems that everybody else went home to their horrified families and were told to have nothing more to do with Sinn Féin – and the wisdom of that advice has sunk in across a new generation
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on August 26, 2016, 07:10:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2016, 06:55:09 PM
Article by Newton Emerson yesterday and some discussion on Slugger making the point that SF simply have feck all talent coming through
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mckay-witness-scandal-is-just-the-latest-blow-to-the-onward-march-of-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.2767283

Interesting anecdote about when the post violence generation in waiting were lost

The party had established what was in effect an undergraduate training programme for aspiring politicians, complete with course material and written exams. On January 30th, after a field trip to Derry for a Bloody Sunday commemoration, many of these young people were dropped off at a Belfast bar that was about to witness the IRA murder of Robert McCartney. The trainees did not witness it, however, nor the IRA clean-up operation that followed. In statements to police, 71 people claimed to have been in the pub's one square metre lavatory. That was the end of the programme, while only a few brief careers emerged from the Tardis toilet. It seems that everybody else went home to their horrified families and were told to have nothing more to do with Sinn Féin – and the wisdom of that advice has sunk in across a new generation

I can't believe that.

I can't believe there was an 'under graduate program' for aspiring politicians. That's just BS. There may have been a days out with lectures and discussions for young members but that description is nonsense.
Am I reading that wrong or are their up to 70 witnesses to a murder who are now in their 30s who have not come forward?
If that's what he's saying it too is nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on August 26, 2016, 07:14:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2016, 06:55:09 PM
Article by Newton Emerson yesterday and some discussion on Slugger making the point that SF simply have feck all talent coming through
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mckay-witness-scandal-is-just-the-latest-blow-to-the-onward-march-of-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.2767283

Interesting anecdote about when the post violence generation in waiting were lost

The party had established what was in effect an undergraduate training programme for aspiring politicians, complete with course material and written exams. On January 30th, after a field trip to Derry for a Bloody Sunday commemoration, many of these young people were dropped off at a Belfast bar that was about to witness the IRA murder of Robert McCartney. The trainees did not witness it, however, nor the IRA clean-up operation that followed. In statements to police, 71 people claimed to have been in the pub's one square metre lavatory. That was the end of the programme, while only a few brief careers emerged from the Tardis toilet. It seems that everybody else went home to their horrified families and were told to have nothing more to do with Sinn Féin – and the wisdom of that advice has sunk in across a new generation

It would be hard to know who to believe there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on August 30, 2016, 07:16:28 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37216380

Nama scandal: Sinn Féin members resign from party

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on August 30, 2016, 10:15:27 PM
Looks like N Antrim has now become partitioned from Sinn Fein!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on August 30, 2016, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 30, 2016, 07:16:28 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37216380

Nama scandal: Sinn Féin members resign from party

Would this be one of the first instances of an internal rebellion in SF?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on August 30, 2016, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 30, 2016, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 30, 2016, 07:16:28 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37216380

Nama scandal: Sinn Féin members resign from party

Would this be one of the first instances of an internal rebellion in SF?

32 CSM , RSF , Eirigi , 1916 Societies etc..... Nah
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on August 30, 2016, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: ashman on August 30, 2016, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 30, 2016, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 30, 2016, 07:16:28 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37216380

Nama scandal: Sinn Féin members resign from party

Would this be one of the first instances of an internal rebellion in SF?

32 CSM , RSF , Eirigi , 1916 Societies etc..... Nah

Would those not be considered more fundamental differences whereas this is a relatively minor spat the sort of thing you're likely to see in other political parties?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on August 30, 2016, 11:49:51 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 30, 2016, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: ashman on August 30, 2016, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 30, 2016, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 30, 2016, 07:16:28 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37216380

Nama scandal: Sinn Féin members resign from party

Would this be one of the first instances of an internal rebellion in SF?

32 CSM , RSF , Eirigi , 1916 Societies etc..... Nah

Would those not be considered more fundamental differences whereas this is a relatively minor spat the sort of thing you're likely to see in other political parties?

Ya ; fair comment I suppose .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 07, 2016, 05:51:38 PM
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/two-sinn-fin-tds-named-under-privilege-in-connection-with-brian-stack-murder-35276722.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 08, 2016, 10:02:22 AM
Shinners need to get rid of Gerry and the ex combatants, too easy an outball for Inda and Martin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 10:09:48 AM
After the names were made public and given to the Gardai I find it strange that the focus of Stack's attention is still on Adams rather than the named public figures.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 08, 2016, 10:23:40 AM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 10:09:48 AM
After the names were made public and given to the Gardai I find it strange that the focus of Stack's attention is still on Adams rather than the named public figures.

Why? He's the party leader and according to pretty much every security source North and South, the leader (or one thereof) of the IRA when the murder happened.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 11:47:50 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 08, 2016, 10:23:40 AM

Why? He's the party leader and according to pretty much every security source North and South, the leader (or one thereof) of the IRA when the murder happened.

Granted but there was a direct link made in the Dail. I'm not asking why security forces or politicians are focusing on Adams I'm talking about the victims son.
If Stack did not give those names to Adams or Michael Martin then surely this is the information a victims son would be interested in.
Rather than ask directly of the two named Stack directed his questions at Adams.
I don't know what happened but I do think it odd that after this became public their focus was still on Adams.
Even if you accept Adams has a role as the leader I think this new information should have been the focus yesterday and today.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 08, 2016, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 11:47:50 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 08, 2016, 10:23:40 AM

Why? He's the party leader and according to pretty much every security source North and South, the leader (or one thereof) of the IRA when the murder happened.

Granted but there was a direct link made in the Dail. I'm not asking why security forces or politicians are focusing on Adams I'm talking about the victims son.
If Stack did not give those names to Adams or Michael Martin then surely this is the information a victims son would be interested in.
Rather than ask directly of the two named Stack directed his questions at Adams.
I don't know what happened but I do think it odd that after this became public their focus was still on Adams.
Even if you accept Adams has a role as the leader I think this new information should have been the focus yesterday and today.

Two very credible people (the two Stack's) have accused Adams of lying and there are lots of inconsistencies in his story.

I'd imagine the reason more focus isn't on on the two named people is that they were obvious suspects originally and presumably the DPP don't have enough evidence to convict.

It was hardly a shocker when they were named - I'd imagine they were top of most people's list when Adam's originally said he gave names over.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 12:35:05 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 08, 2016, 12:06:29 PM

Two very credible people (the two Stack's) have accused Adams of lying and there are lots of inconsistencies in his story.

I'd imagine the reason more focus isn't on on the two named people is that they were obvious suspects originally and presumably the DPP don't have enough evidence to convict.

It was hardly a shocker when they were named - I'd imagine they were top of most people's list when Adam's originally said he gave names over.

What makes them credible? Maybe they are I just don't know. They are not credible simply because Adams isn't.
That's not an explanation. That's a reason for the opposite of what you imagine.

Yes, and now they are public. This is being put out as a massive move but it has not changed the tack of the Stacks or Michael Martin. Not one difference has it made to anything in real terms when Adams is still the focus of the Stacks and Michael Martin's attention.
Neither will it change the focus of the Gardai or the DPP. Nothing happened other than more of the same, more intensely. The Headline in the Independent today is - SF in Turmoil. FFS, surely if this is good information or information that should be acted on the Headline should be directed towards criminal justice and not internal party SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 08, 2016, 12:59:42 PM
Why would Adams say he got 4 names of Stack if he didn't?
Why are the Stacks so adamant that Adams is lying ( as opposed to mistaken e.g)
Who is Farrell and why did he come out with his outburst? Was it just an outbreak of Blueshirtery or did the Stacks give him the names so he could say them publicly under privilege?
Martin presumably playing politics to land blows on his rivals.
Meanwhile homeless crisis growing, no job announcements outside of Dublin, most small towns nearly closed.......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Esmarelda on December 08, 2016, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2016, 12:59:42 PM
Why would Adams say he got 4 names of Stack if he didn't?
Why are the Stacks so adamant that Adams is lying ( as opposed to mistaken e.g)
Who is Farrell and why did he come out with his outburst? Was it just an outbreak of Blueshirtery or did the Stacks give him the names so he could say them publicly under privilege?
Martin presumably playing politics to land blows on his rivals.
Meanwhile homeless crisis growing, no job announcements outside of Dublin, most small towns nearly closed.......
All the action in the Dáil came during a debate on pensions I believe.
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 12:35:05 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 08, 2016, 12:06:29 PM

Two very credible people (the two Stack's) have accused Adams of lying and there are lots of inconsistencies in his story.

I'd imagine the reason more focus isn't on on the two named people is that they were obvious suspects originally and presumably the DPP don't have enough evidence to convict.

It was hardly a shocker when they were named - I'd imagine they were top of most people's list when Adam's originally said he gave names over.

What makes them credible? Maybe they are I just don't know. They are not credible simply because Adams isn't.
That's not an explanation. That's a reason for the opposite of what you imagine.

Yes, and now they are public. This is being put out as a massive move but it has not changed the tack of the Stacks or Michael Martin. Not one difference has it made to anything in real terms when Adams is still the focus of the Stacks and Michael Martin's attention.
Neither will it change the focus of the Gardai or the DPP. Nothing happened other than more of the same, more intensely. The Headline in the Independent today is - SF in Turmoil. FFS, surely if this is good information or information that should be acted on the Headline should be directed towards criminal justice and not internal party SF.

Because the headline used sells more papers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 01:35:36 PM

Because the headline used sells more papers.
[/quote]

Doubt it.
Nobody cares if SF are in turmoil. The point is there doesn't seem to be a criminal story so they need to talk around it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 08, 2016, 01:55:40 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 12:35:05 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 08, 2016, 12:06:29 PM

Two very credible people (the two Stack's) have accused Adams of lying and there are lots of inconsistencies in his story.

I'd imagine the reason more focus isn't on on the two named people is that they were obvious suspects originally and presumably the DPP don't have enough evidence to convict.

It was hardly a shocker when they were named - I'd imagine they were top of most people's list when Adam's originally said he gave names over.

What makes them credible? Maybe they are I just don't know. They are not credible simply because Adams isn't.
That's not an explanation. That's a reason for the opposite of what you imagine.

Yes, and now they are public. This is being put out as a massive move but it has not changed the tack of the Stacks or Michael Martin. Not one difference has it made to anything in real terms when Adams is still the focus of the Stacks and Michael Martin's attention.
Neither will it change the focus of the Gardai or the DPP. Nothing happened other than more of the same, more intensely. The Headline in the Independent today is - SF in Turmoil. FFS, surely if this is good information or information that should be acted on the Headline should be directed towards criminal justice and not internal party SF.

Why are they credible? I'm not sure I'm entirely equipped to answer but...:

They've handled the murder of their father in a very dignified manner
They don't have blood on their hands and are telling us black is white

Maybe FG/FF are using it as a political ready up - they're probably just following Mary Lou's lead.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Esmarelda on December 08, 2016, 02:01:14 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 01:35:36 PM

Because the headline used sells more papers.

Doubt it.
Nobody cares if SF are in turmoil. The point is there doesn't seem to be a criminal story so they need to talk around it.
[/quote]
Nobody cares?  You don't think there are large groups of people bursting for Adams to be caught out? I'd say the majority of people that don't vote SF fall into this category.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 02:06:59 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 08, 2016, 02:01:14 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 01:35:36 PM

Because the headline used sells more papers.

Doubt it.
Nobody cares if SF are in turmoil. The point is there doesn't seem to be a criminal story so they need to talk around it.
Nobody cares?  You don't think there are large groups of people bursting for Adams to be caught out? I'd say the majority of people that don't vote SF fall into this category.
[/quote]


Of course I do. But I think you are unintentionally agreeing with me.

That's not newsworthy. It's common knowledge. The events of yesterday in the Dail are newsworthy if there is news behind it.

What is more interesting or of more importance?
SF in turmoil or TDs named who have had their names forwarded to the Gardaí in relation to the murder?
The nature of that link has not been made public.
Do the Gardaí or the DPP not have a headline between them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Esmarelda on December 08, 2016, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 02:06:59 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on December 08, 2016, 02:01:14 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 01:35:36 PM

Because the headline used sells more papers.

Doubt it.
Nobody cares if SF are in turmoil. The point is there doesn't seem to be a criminal story so they need to talk around it.
Nobody cares?  You don't think there are large groups of people bursting for Adams to be caught out? I'd say the majority of people that don't vote SF fall into this category.


Of course I do. But I think you are unintentionally agreeing with me.

That's not newsworthy. It's common knowledge. The events of yesterday in the Dail are newsworthy if there is news behind it.
[/quote]
Well I wasn't saying you're wrong. I was just answering why the newspapers went with what they went with. Of course I agree that it's not the most important factor.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Adams should have just ignored the Stacks in the first place. Sounds like another Mairia Cahill job to me now Enda and Micheal are getting in on the act.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 08, 2016, 01:55:40 PM

Why are they credible? I'm not sure I'm entirely equipped to answer but...:

They've handled the murder of their father in a very dignified manner
They don't have blood on their hands and are telling us black is white

Maybe FG/FF are using it as a political ready up - they're probably just following Mary Lou's lead.

That amounts to - they I credible because I think they are and because Gerry Adams isn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 08, 2016, 03:46:47 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 08, 2016, 01:55:40 PM

Why are they credible? I'm not sure I'm entirely equipped to answer but...:

They've handled the murder of their father in a very dignified manner
They don't have blood on their hands and are telling us black is white

Maybe FG/FF are using it as a political ready up - they're probably just following Mary Lou's lead.

That amounts to - they I credible because I think they are and because Gerry Adams isn't.

Or using another methodology - what does the average person on the street think?

I'd say they would be found credible.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 08, 2016, 03:47:24 PM
Adams is always going to be fair game because of his past. In fairness to him and McGuinness they would have had to be relatively clean from the mid '70's on given that they were engaged with the Brits on and off as the political front of the armed struggle. Not saying they weren't consulted or kept abreast of some things. However the problem is that no one actually believes anything Adams says anymore, be that right or wrong. As a result the likes of Maria Cahill can put a spin on her own particular (and well founded) issues to maximise the damage and it is accepted as absolute fact or the circumstances of the time are distorted by Inda and Martin. The only way to stop this is for Adams to be replaced by a credible leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 08, 2016, 07:12:39 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcvGYTFrNgE

Dunphy nailed this 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: oliverkelly on December 08, 2016, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Adams should have just ignored the Stacks in the first place. Sounds like another Mairia Cahill job to me now Enda and Micheal are getting in on the act.

What are you smoking? How the f**k could he ignore the stacks in the first place he knows who killed there father. He is withholding information and frankly should be fucked in jail for it. There are currently people sitting in jail or on remand for similar incidents where they are impending investigations and he should be no different.
https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-further-remanded-in-connection-with-withholding-information-from-gareth-hutch-murder-probe-738844.html?client=safari
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 07:36:19 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on December 08, 2016, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Adams should have just ignored the Stacks in the first place. Sounds like another Mairia Cahill job to me now Enda and Micheal are getting in on the act.

What are you smoking? How the f**k could he ignore the stacks in the first place he knows who killed there father. He is withholding information and frankly should be fucked in jail for it. There are currently people sitting in jail or on remand for similar incidents where they are impending investigations and he should be no different.
https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-further-remanded-in-connection-with-withholding-information-from-gareth-hutch-murder-probe-738844.html?client=safari

That's the question. Why are the gardai and DPP less active in this than you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 08, 2016, 07:55:01 PM
It's funny how sensitive information like this has been leaked and there is not a dicky bird about the questions it raises about the Garda Siochana. Political policing at its finest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 08, 2016, 08:28:13 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 07:36:19 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on December 08, 2016, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Adams should have just ignored the Stacks in the first place. Sounds like another Mairia Cahill job to me now Enda and Micheal are getting in on the act.

What are you smoking? How the f**k could he ignore the stacks in the first place he knows who killed there father. He is withholding information and frankly should be fucked in jail for it. There are currently people sitting in jail or on remand for similar incidents where they are impending investigations and he should be no different.
https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-further-remanded-in-connection-with-withholding-information-from-gareth-hutch-murder-probe-738844.html?client=safari

That's the question. Why are the gardai and DPP less active in this than you?

Presumably they feel they don't have enough evidence for now to prove it beyond reasonable doubt in a court (real court - not a kangaroo court)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on December 08, 2016, 09:25:07 PM
Not as many shinners as usual here to tell everyone to move on, nothing to see. Are they getting disillusioned or just lazy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 08, 2016, 10:00:49 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 08, 2016, 09:25:07 PM
Not as many shinners as usual here to tell everyone to move on, nothing to see. Are they getting disillusioned or just lazy?

FoxCommander always shows up to defend Gerry. But then he denies it afterwards.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 08, 2016, 11:03:02 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on December 08, 2016, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Adams should have just ignored the Stacks in the first place. Sounds like another Mairia Cahill job to me now Enda and Micheal are getting in on the act.

What are you smoking? How the f**k could he ignore the stacks in the first place he knows who killed there father. He is withholding information and frankly should be fucked in jail for it. There are currently people sitting in jail or on remand for similar incidents where they are impending investigations and he should be no different.
https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-further-remanded-in-connection-with-withholding-information-from-gareth-hutch-murder-probe-738844.html?client=safari
The lady mentioned in that linked article did not make a bail application.
Just a wild guess, but maybe she had the definite opinion that saying nothing was her best choice and she'll take the consequences of not mounting a defense to the request for a punitive remand application.
As for Adams,  this reads to me as Irish politics, not a legal matter.
As for Ferris he should embarrass (as he claims he can) Fianna Fail, otherwise he's making empty threats, low standard bluster.




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on December 08, 2016, 11:16:25 PM
Not a peep out of Sinn Fein about this £400m scandal of Arlene... ffs!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 09, 2016, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 08, 2016, 07:12:39 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcvGYTFrNgE

Dunphy nailed this 3 years ago.
Yeah just sums up the hypocrisy we get from SDLP,FF and FG amongst others.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 09, 2016, 09:34:43 AM
Quote from: AQMP on December 09, 2016, 09:23:02 AM
Quote from: heffo on December 08, 2016, 08:28:13 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 08, 2016, 07:36:19 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on December 08, 2016, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 08, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Adams should have just ignored the Stacks in the first place. Sounds like another Mairia Cahill job to me now Enda and Micheal are getting in on the act.

What are you smoking? How the f**k could he ignore the stacks in the first place he knows who killed there father. He is withholding information and frankly should be fucked in jail for it. There are currently people sitting in jail or on remand for similar incidents where they are impending investigations and he should be no different.
https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-further-remanded-in-connection-with-withholding-information-from-gareth-hutch-murder-probe-738844.html?client=safari

That's the question. Why are the gardai and DPP less active in this than you?

Presumably they feel they don't have enough evidence for now to prove it beyond reasonable doubt in a court (real court - not a kangaroo court)

Whereas the court of public opinion is fine...

Everywhere except North Korea and within the Sinn Fein party apparently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 10:36:21 AM
Quote from: AQMP on December 09, 2016, 10:18:30 AM

I'm not sure what your point is here...

It looks to me like Adams (whether he's guilty of any crime or not) is being tried in the court of public opinion.  If there was a Garda investigation and Adams was charged e.g with withholding information, his first defence is likely to be that he wouldn't be able to get a fair trial.

"The court of public opinion is an alternative system of justice. It's very different from the traditional court system: This court is based on reputation, revenge, public shaming, and the whims of the crowd. Having a good story is more important than having the law on your side. Being a sympathetic underdog is more important than being fair. Facts matter, but there are no standards of accuracy."

It's much worse than that. For some reason Adams and the circus around him is the main focus of our public led by our political leaders.

If there is public and political concern that Adams has information that is important to a murder investigation there is a need for the Gardaí to question him. The politicans and journalists can question whoever they like but the Gardaí must investigate murder. This happened in the last GE when Adams was brought in for Questioning re Jean McConville.

So there are one of two things here. Either the Politicians and the Stacks have reasons other than seeking justice (enter any reason you like) or the Gardaí are choosing to not fully investigate a murder for some reason. The second one is the scary one the first one is expected and most likely.

All heffo's post here start with 'presumably' or 'I'd imagine'.
You do not need to presume or imagine you either know or you don't. If you don't then then should ask and find out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 09, 2016, 10:43:41 AM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 10:36:21 AM
Quote from: AQMP on December 09, 2016, 10:18:30 AM

I'm not sure what your point is here...

It looks to me like Adams (whether he's guilty of any crime or not) is being tried in the court of public opinion.  If there was a Garda investigation and Adams was charged e.g with withholding information, his first defence is likely to be that he wouldn't be able to get a fair trial.

"The court of public opinion is an alternative system of justice. It's very different from the traditional court system: This court is based on reputation, revenge, public shaming, and the whims of the crowd. Having a good story is more important than having the law on your side. Being a sympathetic underdog is more important than being fair. Facts matter, but there are no standards of accuracy."

All heffo's post here start with 'presumably' or 'I'd imagine'.
You do not need to presume or imagine you either know or you don't. If you don't then then should ask and find out.

I'm not sure how close I'd like to get to either Ferris or Ellis to ask them that question
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 09, 2016, 12:04:50 PM
I heard one of the Stack's on GMU this morning. I couldn't make a lot of sense out of what he was saying, nor could I understand what exactly it was that he wanted. In essence the Garda have all the names from various sources but he just wants Adams to tell them? Why? What purpose would it serve? Then we had the Quinn family trying to tie Adams and Conor Murphy into that murder. SF are there own worst enemies at times but I wonder what or who motivates these families to speak out. But as long as ex combatants are there it will be exploited by other parties. That Dunphy piece should be compulsory viewing of other political parties. Get on with the bread and butter stop scoring points on the past. Both jurisdictions on this island were born out of violence and the threat of violence. Kettle, pot, black.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 12:12:28 PM
Unless the individual(s) who pulled the trigger on Mr Stack, or those who ordered them to make a confession there obviously isn't enough evidence for the Gardai/DPP to bring charges against anyone.
I'm sure informers and others have long since told the Gardai who was involved but unless they saw it happen and give evidence in Court.........
Are the Stacks members of any political party I wonder?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 01:19:46 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 09, 2016, 12:04:50 PM
I heard one of the Stack's on GMU this morning. I couldn't make a lot of sense out of what he was saying, nor could I understand what exactly it was that he wanted. In essence the Garda have all the names from various sources but he just wants Adams to tell them? Why? What purpose would it serve? Then we had the Quinn family trying to tie Adams and Conor Murphy into that murder. SF are there own worst enemies at times but I wonder what or who motivates these families to speak out. But as long as ex combatants are there it will be exploited by other parties. That Dunphy piece should be compulsory viewing of other political parties. Get on with the bread and butter stop scoring points on the past. Both jurisdictions on this island were born out of violence and the threat of violence. Kettle, pot, black.

This is key to Irish politics.
Once politicians start deciding who is and who isn't worthy of public office democracy is dead. We have seen this time and time again but thankfully it has never been accepted in Ireland. It's also dangerous when politicians hold public trials while we have a judiciary system in place to deal with these things. I'm a big fan of Dail Privilege and people putting trust in elected reps to highlight causes and injustice but there is a line that can be crossed. There seems to be little or no Gardaí or DPP involvement with Adams in any of these cases. Do we not have faith in the Judiciary system or are we trying to by pass it? That should be the scariest thing about all this.

Adams is a liar about many things, no more or no less than most leading politicians. That is politics, it is accepted. However, when it comes to criminality and justice there is a system in place. The constant trial in public of Adams is threat to democracy. The 20 year trial by mainstream politicians and media without any questions makes me wonder if we have not already passed that point. If Adams or other politicians stand down for these reasons we will have very concentrated types of political figures in power.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: oliverkelly on December 09, 2016, 01:36:19 PM
Quote from: AQMP on December 09, 2016, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 12:12:28 PM
Unless the individual(s) who pulled the trigger on Mr Stack, or those who ordered them to make a confession there obviously isn't enough evidence for the Gardai/DPP to bring charges against anyone.
I'm sure informers and others have long since told the Gardai who was involved but unless they saw it happen and give evidence in Court.........
Are the Stacks members of any political party I wonder?

Wasn't Ellis in clink at the time of the shooting?

Doesn't mean he wasn't involved in organising it. Wayne Dundon is currently serving life for murder and he was locked up at the time the murder took place. The info floating about these things is never too far wrong so I personally have no doubt that Ellis and Ferris were involved.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 09, 2016, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 08, 2016, 10:00:49 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 08, 2016, 09:25:07 PM
Not as many shinners as usual here to tell everyone to move on, nothing to see. Are they getting disillusioned or just lazy?

FoxCommander always shows up to defend Gerry. But then he denies it afterwards.  ;D

No - My point was that if Adams would have been very foolish to get involved in any attempts to provide information or broker any meetings on behalf of the stacks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 09, 2016, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on December 09, 2016, 01:36:19 PM
Quote from: AQMP on December 09, 2016, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 12:12:28 PM
Unless the individual(s) who pulled the trigger on Mr Stack, or those who ordered them to make a confession there obviously isn't enough evidence for the Gardai/DPP to bring charges against anyone.
I'm sure informers and others have long since told the Gardai who was involved but unless they saw it happen and give evidence in Court.........
Are the Stacks members of any political party I wonder?

Wasn't Ellis in clink at the time of the shooting?

Doesn't mean he wasn't involved in organising it. Wayne Dundon is currently serving life for murder and he was locked up at the time the murder took place. The info floating about these things is never too far wrong so I personally have no doubt that Ellis and Ferris were involved.
You need to be careful with the accusations, theres no Dail privilege on this board.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 01:19:46 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 09, 2016, 12:04:50 PM
I heard one of the Stack's on GMU this morning. I couldn't make a lot of sense out of what he was saying, nor could I understand what exactly it was that he wanted. In essence the Garda have all the names from various sources but he just wants Adams to tell them? Why? What purpose would it serve? Then we had the Quinn family trying to tie Adams and Conor Murphy into that murder. SF are there own worst enemies at times but I wonder what or who motivates these families to speak out. But as long as ex combatants are there it will be exploited by other parties. That Dunphy piece should be compulsory viewing of other political parties. Get on with the bread and butter stop scoring points on the past. Both jurisdictions on this island were born out of violence and the threat of violence. Kettle, pot, black.

This is key to Irish politics.
Once politicians start deciding who is and who isn't worthy of public office democracy is dead. We have seen this time and time again but thankfully it has never been accepted in Ireland. It's also dangerous when politicians hold public trials while we have a judiciary system in place to deal with these things. I'm a big fan of Dail Privilege and people putting trust in elected reps to highlight causes and injustice but there is a line that can be crossed. There seems to be little or no Gardaí or DPP involvement with Adams in any of these cases. Do we not have faith in the Judiciary system or are we trying to by pass it? That should be the scariest thing about all this.

Adams is a liar about many things, no more or no less than most leading politicians. That is politics, it is accepted. However, when it comes to criminality and justice there is a system in place. The constant trial in public of Adams is threat to democracy. The 20 year trial by mainstream politicians and media without any questions makes me wonder if we have not already passed that point. If Adams or other politicians stand down for these reasons we will have very concentrated types of political figures in power.

Who is accusing Adams of breaking the law?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 02:40:35 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 02:34:23 PM


Who is accusing Adams of breaking the law?

I'm not talking about Adams breaking any laws. I'm talking about the lack of urgency from the Gardaí. If this lack of urgency is genuine then the issue is the politicians and media holding a 20 year public trial. That in itself is a dangerous thing for democracy. If there should be urgency then something much more sinister is at play within our judicial system.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 02:40:35 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 02:34:23 PM


Who is accusing Adams of breaking the law?

I'm not talking about Adams breaking any laws. I'm talking about the lack of urgency from the Gardaí. If this lack of urgency is genuine then the issue is the politicians and media holding a 20 year public trial. That in itself is a dangerous thing for democracy. If there should be urgency then something much more sinister is at play within our judicial system.

So if he isn't being accused of breaking the law, why would the Gardaí be involved??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 03:11:38 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 03:01:06 PM


So if he isn't being accused of breaking the law, why would the Gardaí be involved??

I'm surprised you need this explained.

Sometimes when investigating murder the Gardaí might want to talk to someone that might have information they could use in their investigation.
Those people are not guilty of a crime but they might have information relating to the crime.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: heffo on December 09, 2016, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 03:01:06 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 02:40:35 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 02:34:23 PM


Who is accusing Adams of breaking the law?

I'm not talking about Adams breaking any laws. I'm talking about the lack of urgency from the Gardaí. If this lack of urgency is genuine then the issue is the politicians and media holding a 20 year public trial. That in itself is a dangerous thing for democracy. If there should be urgency then something much more sinister is at play within our judicial system.

So if he isn't being accused of breaking the law, why would the Gardaí be involved??

Might he be a person of interest to their inquiries?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 03:29:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 09, 2016, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on December 09, 2016, 01:36:19 PM
Quote from: AQMP on December 09, 2016, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 12:12:28 PM
Unless the individual(s) who pulled the trigger on Mr Stack, or those who ordered them to make a confession there obviously isn't enough evidence for the Gardai/DPP to bring charges against anyone.
I'm sure informers and others have long since told the Gardai who was involved but unless they saw it happen and give evidence in Court.........
Are the Stacks members of any political party I wonder?

Wasn't Ellis in clink at the time of the shooting?

Doesn't mean he wasn't involved in organising it. Wayne Dundon is currently serving life for murder and he was locked up at the time the murder took place. The info floating about these things is never too far wrong so I personally have no doubt that Ellis and Ferris were involved.
You need to be careful with the accusations, theres no Dail privilege on this board.
You would indeed.

And I know who you are Oliver ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 03:30:18 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 03:11:38 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 03:01:06 PM


So if he isn't being accused of breaking the law, why would the Gardaí be involved??

I'm surprised you need this explained.

Sometimes when investigating murder the Gardaí might want to talk to someone that might have information they could use in their investigation.
Those people are not guilty of a crime but they might have information relating to the crime.

So are you saying Adams should be taken in and questioned about what he knows? Or charged with witholding information?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 03:41:17 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 03:30:18 PM

So are you saying Adams should be taken in and questioned about what he knows? Or charged with witholding information?

No. I'm not saying that.
I still have faith in the Gardaí and their lack of action here (and other things) makes me think that Adams is not a person of interest in the case.

I just think it's worrying that some politicians seem to have lost that faith or else think the Gardaí are incompetent. Either that or they are by passing the Gardaí for other reasons.

I've seen this play out with Jean McConville. Eventually the PSNi took Adams in and held him. They then released him. I questioned if that was police acting under pressure by politicians. If it was it was a terrible day for justice in Ireland. Now the same thing might happen here. If it does then I'll wait to see the next action. If Adams is arrested and released it will make me think the Gardaí are acting under political pressure. Right now they are not which I think is good. However, that only raises more question about the approach of the politicians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
How the fûck is Adams not in jail yet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 03:46:25 PM
Is it not for political reasons that he's NOT being taken in and questioned about this? i.e. Because he was a pivotal player in the peace process

Is this "public trial" not the same as dozens of similar situations over the years where politicians were judged (in a public opinion sense rather than a legal one) and had to step down as a result?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 03:53:30 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 03:46:25 PM
Is it not for political reasons that he's NOT being taken in and questioned about this? i.e. Because he was a pivotal player in the peace process

Is this "public trial" not the same as dozens of similar situations over the years where politicians were judged (in a public opinion sense rather than a legal one) and had to step down as a result?

Perhaps but that was always an internal party decision where they decide for themselves or they got sacked for incompetence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 03:54:22 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 03:46:25 PM
Is it not for political reasons that he's NOT being taken in and questioned about this? i.e. Because he was a pivotal player in the peace process

Is this "public trial" not the same as dozens of similar situations over the years where politicians were judged (in a public opinion sense rather than a legal one) and had to step down as a result?

As Martin said, Adam seems to live in a parallel universe where normal rules aren't applicable to him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: oliverkelly on December 09, 2016, 04:09:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 03:29:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 09, 2016, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on December 09, 2016, 01:36:19 PM
Quote from: AQMP on December 09, 2016, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 12:12:28 PM
Unless the individual(s) who pulled the trigger on Mr Stack, or those who ordered them to make a confession there obviously isn't enough evidence for the Gardai/DPP to bring charges against anyone.
I'm sure informers and others have long since told the Gardai who was involved but unless they saw it happen and give evidence in Court.........
Are the Stacks members of any political party I wonder?

Wasn't Ellis in clink at the time of the shooting?

Doesn't mea ;D  ;D ;Dhe wasn't involved in organising it. Wayne Dundon is currently serving life for murder and he was locked up at the time the murder took place. The info floating about these things is never too far wrong so I personally have no doubt that Ellis and Ferris were involved.
You need to be careful with the accusations, theres no Dail privilege on this board.
You would indeed.

And I know who you are Oliver ;)

Fair play to you😂😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on December 09, 2016, 04:20:54 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on December 09, 2016, 03:53:30 PM
Perhaps but that was always an internal party decision where they decide for themselves or they got sacked for incompetence.

True but I guess due to it's history, SF is not going to exert pressure on Adams. I don't think that should exclude other parties from doing so though and I don't think there's anything sinister about doing so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 09, 2016, 04:22:33 PM
Having read the Adams statement today, there is nothing for him to answer for. The political biased hysteria directed against him has no substance.
He has no liability in the matter and nor should he have as the political leader of Sinn Fein. People forget quite easily what they overwhelmingly voted for in 1998

Having read what the Stacks stated in August 2013, their expectations were reasonably satisfied with the cooperation they received from IRA member/s  re the disclosure of information and admission of responsibility to do with the murder. "Son says family achieved a 'huge amount of closure' after IRA statement"
Their main gripe at that time was with what they perceived as serious shortcomings in the Gardai investigation.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
How the fûck is Adams not in jail yet.

Because he hasn't been charged with anything, found guilty or sentenced.
You know - the way things work in a free country that abides by the rule of Law.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
How the fûck is Adams not in jail yet.

Because he hasn't been charged with anything, found guilty or sentenced.
You know - the way things work in a free country that abides by the rule of Law.

I suppose you believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and that Gerry Adams wasn't a member of the IRA, because all are equally real.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 09:14:17 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
How the fûck is Adams not in jail yet.

Because he hasn't been charged with anything, found guilty or sentenced.
You know - the way things work in a free country that abides by the rule of Law.

I suppose you believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and that Gerry Adams wasn't a member of the IRA, because all are equally real.
No.
Read what I said.
In this State you have to be charged with something, tried, found guilty and sentenced before you can be put in jail.
Maybe young well heeled  Blueshirts might like internment introduced.
That was tried up North before your time (1971) and we saw where that led to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 09:52:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 09:14:17 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
How the fûck is Adams not in jail yet.

Because he hasn't been charged with anything, found guilty or sentenced.
You know - the way things work in a free country that abides by the rule of Law.

I suppose you believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and that Gerry Adams wasn't a member of the IRA, because all are equally real.
No.
Read what I said.
In this State you have to be charged with something, tried, found guilty and sentenced before you can be put in jail.
Maybe young well heeled  Blueshirts might like internment introduced.
That was tried up North before your time (1971) and we saw where that led to.

If ever there was a case to give it a second chance it's Gerry Adams..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 09, 2016, 10:29:45 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
How the fûck is Adams not in jail yet.

Because he hasn't been charged with anything, found guilty or sentenced.
You know - the way things work in a free country that abides by the rule of Law.

I suppose you believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and that Gerry Adams wasn't a member of the IRA, because all are equally real.

The Gombeenery have their gullibles in spades with the copious like of yourself, amadán.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 09, 2016, 09:58:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 09:52:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 09:14:17 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
How the fûck is Adams not in jail yet.

Because he hasn't been charged with anything, found guilty or sentenced.
You know - the way things work in a free country that abides by the rule of Law.

I suppose you believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and that Gerry Adams wasn't a member of the IRA, because all are equally real.
No.
Read what I said.
In this State you have to be charged with something, tried, found guilty and sentenced before you can be put in jail.
Maybe young well heeled  Blueshirts might like internment introduced.
That was tried up North before your time (1971) and we saw where that led to.

If ever there was a case to give it a second chance it's Gerry Adams..
I know it doesn't need said but you're a plonker.

It doesn't need to be said that anyone who doesn't think the only reason Gerry Adams is walking the streets of Ireland and not in prison right now is because he accumulated so much power and influence while both being a member of and leading the Provos is a plonker in the eyes of most of Ireland.

I'm very happy with the side I'm on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 10:41:52 PM
Ah Jaysus Syfín will ya cop on.
Cosgrave, Lemass , De Valera, O'Duffy, Sean McBride, De Rossa, Rabbite, Gilmore.....etc etc  should all have been in jail instead of the Dàil by your " logic".
However the real world decided otherwise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 10, 2016, 12:27:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2016, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 09, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
How the fûck is Adams not in jail yet.

Because he hasn't been charged with anything, found guilty or sentenced.
You know - the way things work in a free country that abides by the rule of Law.

Of all the ways you could defend Adams I wouldn't choose using the "rule of law" excuse.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2016, 12:56:56 AM
Not defending him, just explaining to his daftness why we can't just lock people up.
However I get the irony ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 10, 2016, 08:51:04 AM
Whether Adams was in the IRA or not "technically" is not clear to me. What is clear is that from the early '70's he and McGuinness where the public face of the Republican Movement, involved in talks with the Brits at a high level, and as such they were definitely members of the army council. Adams is perhaps splitting hairs on membership.What he and McGuinness must get credit for is where they have delivered the movement to. I am old enough to remember what life was like before during and after the troubles and the freedoms and influence that nationalists have now is due as much to Adams, McGuinness and the armed struggle as it is to John Hume. Unionists would never willingly have given as much ground and the British would never have forced the issue without the violence. I am not condoning the violence or the taking of any life, it doesn't fit with my own personal philosophy. However as a keen student of politics on this Island it is clear to me that the troubles were unavoidable. Adams and McGuinness both took risks for their beliefs and only they could have delivered the peace process from within. All this is forgotten my the charlatans currently running FF, FG, SDLP, Labour etc... As they seek to exploit victims to there own narrow political advantage. Having said all of that as a nationalist voter in the North I now feel Adams has served his purpose within SF. Nationalism is crying out for a fresh imaginative leadership along the lines of the SNP and Adams just hasn't got it IMO.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 09, 2016, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 08, 2016, 07:12:39 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcvGYTFrNgE

Dunphy nailed this 3 years ago.
Yeah just sums up the hypocrisy we get from SDLP,FF and FG amongst others.

I think the line that sums it up the most is when Colleran goes:

Dunphy: We've had IRA men in government going back through the decades, Sean Lemass was a good example, his brother was a killer, he was in the IRA, he was a killer. What did you think of Lemass?
Colleran: But Sean Lemass....
Dunphy: What did you think of Lemass?
Colleran: Are you equating what happpened.....but no.....first of all lets address the issue

Quite typical of the free state double standards when it comes to violent republicanism, when it was the war of independence - it was not what they did - it was why they did it. When it is the troubles, it's not about why the did it, it's about what they did.

More RIC officers lost their lives in the War of Independence which lasted 2 and a half years than RUC officers were killed in the Troubles which lasted circa 30 years.
750 civilians lost their lives in the War of Independence compared to about 1,800 in the Troubles - a 2 and 1/2 year conflict v a 30 year conflict.
Informants were brutally dispatched by Republics in both conflicts.
Reprehensible sectarian attacks were committed in both conflicts by republicans.

But one was alright while the other was not.

Maybe Michael Martin should take responsibility for the part Charlie Haughey took in arming republicans in the late 60s.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 09, 2016, 04:22:33 PM
Having read the Adams statement today, there is nothing for him to answer for. The political biased hysteria directed against him has no substance.
He has no liability in the matter and nor should he have as the political leader of Sinn Fein. People forget quite easily what they overwhelmingly voted for in 1998

Having read what the Stacks stated in August 2013, their expectations were reasonably satisfied with the cooperation they received from IRA member/s  re the disclosure of information and admission of responsibility to do with the murder. "Son says family achieved a 'huge amount of closure' after IRA statement"
Their main gripe at that time was with what they perceived as serious shortcomings in the Gardai investigation.

Adams claims that Austin Stack gave him the 4 names.
Austin Stack says that is not the case.

One of them is wrong.

Given Adams' claims and denials in the past, I know who my money is on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 12:33:11 PM
Also, on whoever it was that was asking about Stack's political ties.....


(http://tfk.thefreekick.com/uploads/default/optimized/3X/f/f/fff28bc6432dbb7e8d6fdfa740705fd1d4a2b768_1_281x499.PNG)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:46:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 12:33:11 PM
Also, on whoever it was that was asking about Stack's political ties.....


(http://tfk.thefreekick.com/uploads/default/optimized/3X/f/f/fff28bc6432dbb7e8d6fdfa740705fd1d4a2b768_1_281x499.PNG)

Jaysus Bomber that is easily dealt with.

The Stacks could just deny membership.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:46:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 12:33:11 PM
Also, on whoever it was that was asking about Stack's political ties.....


(http://tfk.thefreekick.com/uploads/default/optimized/3X/f/f/fff28bc6432dbb7e8d6fdfa740705fd1d4a2b768_1_281x499.PNG)

Jaysus Bomber that is easily dealt with.

The Stacks could just deny membership.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why?

Are FF a secret organisation?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 10, 2016, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 09, 2016, 04:22:33 PM
Having read the Adams statement today, there is nothing for him to answer for. The political biased hysteria directed against him has no substance.
He has no liability in the matter and nor should he have as the political leader of Sinn Fein. People forget quite easily what they overwhelmingly voted for in 1998

Having read what the Stacks stated in August 2013, their expectations were reasonably satisfied with the cooperation they received from IRA member/s  re the disclosure of information and admission of responsibility to do with the murder. "Son says family achieved a 'huge amount of closure' after IRA statement"
Their main gripe at that time was with what they perceived as serious shortcomings in the Gardai investigation.

Adams claims that Austin Stack gave him the 4 names.
Austin Stack says that is not the case.

One of them is wrong.

Given Adams' claims and denials in the past, I know who my money is on.
You can believe what you want of who said what, that does not change anything or give any legitimacy to the lunatics calling for Adams to be locked up. What is known is that the Stacks agreed to a confidential process of engagement with someone representing the IRA some years ago, they expressed their complete satisfaction with that engagement and now 3 years later have changed their tune and broken confidentiality.

The anonymity of any republican coming forward to pass on information  (or anybody involved with that process) to a bereaved family has to be respected.
If you have one bereaved family breaking confidence about who assisted them, then all other bereaved families looking for information will suffer.
In regards to the first person who assisted the search for the missing buried bodies, should that person have been entrapped, arrested and interrogated with the purpose to reveal all information known about that particular grisly murder?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 01:19:14 PM
Any sign of justice for Michael Lynagh and the Lynagh family?

http://politico.ie/archive/they-wouldnt-leave-him-alone-death-michael-lynagh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 01:19:24 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2016, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 09, 2016, 04:22:33 PM
Having read the Adams statement today, there is nothing for him to answer for. The political biased hysteria directed against him has no substance.
He has no liability in the matter and nor should he have as the political leader of Sinn Fein. People forget quite easily what they overwhelmingly voted for in 1998

Having read what the Stacks stated in August 2013, their expectations were reasonably satisfied with the cooperation they received from IRA member/s  re the disclosure of information and admission of responsibility to do with the murder. "Son says family achieved a 'huge amount of closure' after IRA statement"
Their main gripe at that time was with what they perceived as serious shortcomings in the Gardai investigation.

Adams claims that Austin Stack gave him the 4 names.
Austin Stack says that is not the case.

One of them is wrong.

Given Adams' claims and denials in the past, I know who my money is on.
You can believe what you want of who said what, that does not change anything or give any legitimacy to the lunatics calling for Adams to be locked up. What is known is that the Stacks agreed to a confidential process of engagement with someone representing the IRA some years ago, they expressed their complete satisfaction with that engagement and now 3 years later have changed their tune and broken confidentiality.

The anonymity of any republican coming forward to pass on information  (or anybody involved with that process) to a bereaved family has to be respected.
If you have one bereaved family breaking confidence about who assisted them, then all other bereaved families looking for information will suffer.
In regards to the first person who assisted the search for the missing buried bodies, should that person have been entrapped, arrested and interrogated with the purpose to reveal all information known about that particular grisly murder?

What?

This was an Irishman murdered for no obvious reason. Why on earth would I, or any other decent Irish person, ever respect that?

Sinn Féin and the IRA denied involvement for decades, even long after the GFA. The lied all these years. Why should we respect or even believe any part of their roles now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 01:32:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 01:19:24 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2016, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 09, 2016, 04:22:33 PM
Having read the Adams statement today, there is nothing for him to answer for. The political biased hysteria directed against him has no substance.
He has no liability in the matter and nor should he have as the political leader of Sinn Fein. People forget quite easily what they overwhelmingly voted for in 1998

Having read what the Stacks stated in August 2013, their expectations were reasonably satisfied with the cooperation they received from IRA member/s  re the disclosure of information and admission of responsibility to do with the murder. "Son says family achieved a 'huge amount of closure' after IRA statement"
Their main gripe at that time was with what they perceived as serious shortcomings in the Gardai investigation.

Adams claims that Austin Stack gave him the 4 names.
Austin Stack says that is not the case.

One of them is wrong.

Given Adams' claims and denials in the past, I know who my money is on.
You can believe what you want of who said what, that does not change anything or give any legitimacy to the lunatics calling for Adams to be locked up. What is known is that the Stacks agreed to a confidential process of engagement with someone representing the IRA some years ago, they expressed their complete satisfaction with that engagement and now 3 years later have changed their tune and broken confidentiality.

The anonymity of any republican coming forward to pass on information  (or anybody involved with that process) to a bereaved family has to be respected.
If you have one bereaved family breaking confidence about who assisted them, then all other bereaved families looking for information will suffer.
In regards to the first person who assisted the search for the missing buried bodies, should that person have been entrapped, arrested and interrogated with the purpose to reveal all information known about that particular grisly murder?

What?

This was an Irishman murdered for no obvious reason. Why on earth would I, or any other decent Irish person, ever respect that?

Sinn Féin and the IRA denied involvement for decades, even long after the GFA. The lied all these years. Why should we respect or even believe any part of their roles now?



You believe Brian Stack's murder had nothing to do with the violent beatings he was responsible for dishing out to republican prisoners?/

Not that it justifies it but it clearly wasn't an indiscriminate murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 01:35:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 01:32:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 01:19:24 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2016, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 09, 2016, 04:22:33 PM
Having read the Adams statement today, there is nothing for him to answer for. The political biased hysteria directed against him has no substance.
He has no liability in the matter and nor should he have as the political leader of Sinn Fein. People forget quite easily what they overwhelmingly voted for in 1998

Having read what the Stacks stated in August 2013, their expectations were reasonably satisfied with the cooperation they received from IRA member/s  re the disclosure of information and admission of responsibility to do with the murder. "Son says family achieved a 'huge amount of closure' after IRA statement"
Their main gripe at that time was with what they perceived as serious shortcomings in the Gardai investigation.

Adams claims that Austin Stack gave him the 4 names.
Austin Stack says that is not the case.

One of them is wrong.

Given Adams' claims and denials in the past, I know who my money is on.
You can believe what you want of who said what, that does not change anything or give any legitimacy to the lunatics calling for Adams to be locked up. What is known is that the Stacks agreed to a confidential process of engagement with someone representing the IRA some years ago, they expressed their complete satisfaction with that engagement and now 3 years later have changed their tune and broken confidentiality.

The anonymity of any republican coming forward to pass on information  (or anybody involved with that process) to a bereaved family has to be respected.
If you have one bereaved family breaking confidence about who assisted them, then all other bereaved families looking for information will suffer.
In regards to the first person who assisted the search for the missing buried bodies, should that person have been entrapped, arrested and interrogated with the purpose to reveal all information known about that particular grisly murder?

What?

This was an Irishman murdered for no obvious reason. Why on earth would I, or any other decent Irish person, ever respect that?

Sinn Féin and the IRA denied involvement for decades, even long after the GFA. The lied all these years. Why should we respect or even believe any part of their roles now?



You believe Brian Stack's murder had nothing to do with the violent beatings he was responsible for dishing out to republican prisoners?/

Not that it justifies it but it clearly wasn't an indiscriminate murder.

I don't believe anything that people who lied over and over for decades say. Why would I? They will probably change the story again shortly.

Just as you have done, by blaming Brian Stack for his own murder.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: vallankumous on December 10, 2016, 01:37:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 01:19:24 PM
What?

This was an Irishman murdered for no obvious reason. Why on earth would I, or any other decent Irish person, ever respect that?

Sinn Féin and the IRA denied involvement for decades, even long after the GFA. The lied all these years. Why should we respect or even believe any part of their roles now?

You shouldn't.
Why would you try to get information from someone who tells that much lies?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 02:01:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 01:35:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 01:32:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 01:19:24 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2016, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 09, 2016, 04:22:33 PM
Having read the Adams statement today, there is nothing for him to answer for. The political biased hysteria directed against him has no substance.
He has no liability in the matter and nor should he have as the political leader of Sinn Fein. People forget quite easily what they overwhelmingly voted for in 1998

Having read what the Stacks stated in August 2013, their expectations were reasonably satisfied with the cooperation they received from IRA member/s  re the disclosure of information and admission of responsibility to do with the murder. "Son says family achieved a 'huge amount of closure' after IRA statement"
Their main gripe at that time was with what they perceived as serious shortcomings in the Gardai investigation.

Adams claims that Austin Stack gave him the 4 names.
Austin Stack says that is not the case.

One of them is wrong.

Given Adams' claims and denials in the past, I know who my money is on.
You can believe what you want of who said what, that does not change anything or give any legitimacy to the lunatics calling for Adams to be locked up. What is known is that the Stacks agreed to a confidential process of engagement with someone representing the IRA some years ago, they expressed their complete satisfaction with that engagement and now 3 years later have changed their tune and broken confidentiality.

The anonymity of any republican coming forward to pass on information  (or anybody involved with that process) to a bereaved family has to be respected.
If you have one bereaved family breaking confidence about who assisted them, then all other bereaved families looking for information will suffer.
In regards to the first person who assisted the search for the missing buried bodies, should that person have been entrapped, arrested and interrogated with the purpose to reveal all information known about that particular grisly murder?

What?

This was an Irishman murdered for no obvious reason. Why on earth would I, or any other decent Irish person, ever respect that?

Sinn Féin and the IRA denied involvement for decades, even long after the GFA. The lied all these years. Why should we respect or even believe any part of their roles now?



You believe Brian Stack's murder had nothing to do with the violent beatings he was responsible for dishing out to republican prisoners?/

Not that it justifies it but it clearly wasn't an indiscriminate murder.

I don't believe anything that people who lied over and over for decades say. Why would I? They will probably change the story again shortly.

Just as you have done, by blaming Brian Stack for his own murder.

Who is lying?

Austin Stack was happy with the closure this incident brought to him and his family back in 2013. He agreed to the confidentiality that it entailed back in 2013.

He's obviously changed his mind since, I think he has no credibility. I think that is something you have selectively chosen to ignore, among your faux outrage and indignation.

Do you trust successive governments who quelled investigations into justice for the Dublin and Monaghan bombings? Bertie Ahern refused to set up an investigation into the bombings? Why? Why is the same party fervently pursuing Adams to make statements on families he has attempted to engage with in uncovering the truth?

It's a bizarre hypocrisy but the answer is quite evident even if certain people don't want to admit it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:13:00 PM
Of course Bomber.

Every criticism of republican murders is 'faux outrage'. But your outrage at the suicide of The Executioner's brother is truly heroic and genuine.

Then all the victims of these murders, and their families, have no 'credibility'. Whether it is the Finucanes, Cahills or Stacks, or anyone else murdered, none of them have any credibility and 'shur they deserved it anyway'. They are all liars, every one of them. Oh....and politically motivated. All of them.

SF/IRA lied about Stack's 1983 murder, all the way up to 2013. But of course you still insist that everyone else is lying.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 02:22:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:13:00 PM
Of course Bomber.

Every criticism of republican murders is 'faux outrage'. But your outrage at the suicide of The Executioner's brother is truly heroic and genuine.

Then all the victims of these murders, and their families, have no 'credibility'. Whether it is the Finucanes, Cahills or Stacks, or anyone else murdered, none of them have any credibility and 'shur they deserved it anyway'. They are all liars, every one of them. Oh....and politically motivated. All of them.

SF/IRA lied about Stack's 1983 murder, all the way up to 2013. But of course you still insist that everyone else is lying.

I think it's faux outrage when I don't see you picking on similar incidents on the other side.

What did you think of Lemass, Muppet?

What did you think of Collins?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:28:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 02:22:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:13:00 PM
Of course Bomber.

Every criticism of republican murders is 'faux outrage'. But your outrage at the suicide of The Executioner's brother is truly heroic and genuine.

Then all the victims of these murders, and their families, have no 'credibility'. Whether it is the Finucanes, Cahills or Stacks, or anyone else murdered, none of them have any credibility and 'shur they deserved it anyway'. They are all liars, every one of them. Oh....and politically motivated. All of them.

SF/IRA lied about Stack's 1983 murder, all the way up to 2013. But of course you still insist that everyone else is lying.

I think it's faux outrage when I don't see you picking on similar incidents on the other side.

What did you think of Lemass, Muppet?

What did you think of Collins?


Fair play Bomber.  ;D ;D

This makes all of your posts faux outrage.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 02:35:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:28:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 02:22:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:13:00 PM
Of course Bomber.

Every criticism of republican murders is 'faux outrage'. But your outrage at the suicide of The Executioner's brother is truly heroic and genuine.

Then all the victims of these murders, and their families, have no 'credibility'. Whether it is the Finucanes, Cahills or Stacks, or anyone else murdered, none of them have any credibility and 'shur they deserved it anyway'. They are all liars, every one of them. Oh....and politically motivated. All of them.

SF/IRA lied about Stack's 1983 murder, all the way up to 2013. But of course you still insist that everyone else is lying.

I think it's faux outrage when I don't see you picking on similar incidents on the other side.

What did you think of Lemass, Muppet?

What did you think of Collins?


Fair play Bomber.  ;D ;D

This makes all of your posts faux outrage.

As I suspected, you are conflicted by your double standards.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:47:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 02:35:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:28:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 02:22:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 02:13:00 PM
Of course Bomber.

Every criticism of republican murders is 'faux outrage'. But your outrage at the suicide of The Executioner's brother is truly heroic and genuine.

Then all the victims of these murders, and their families, have no 'credibility'. Whether it is the Finucanes, Cahills or Stacks, or anyone else murdered, none of them have any credibility and 'shur they deserved it anyway'. They are all liars, every one of them. Oh....and politically motivated. All of them.

SF/IRA lied about Stack's 1983 murder, all the way up to 2013. But of course you still insist that everyone else is lying.

I think it's faux outrage when I don't see you picking on similar incidents on the other side.

What did you think of Lemass, Muppet?

What did you think of Collins?


Fair play Bomber.  ;D ;D

This makes all of your posts faux outrage.

As I suspected, you are conflicted by your double standards.

Yes of course.

I am discredited....
Politically motivated.....
Fauxly outraged....
Doubled up standards.....
Conflicted....


Irishman murdered, nothing to see here. Unless he was in the IRA of course.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 03:03:01 PM
Where are we with the alleged abduction sex abuse murder and alleged political cover up of that wee girl in Donegal these days? Undoubtedly some major people know stuff and need to go to the guards wait a minute - they already did!! Muppet?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 03:03:01 PM
Where are we with the alleged abduction sex abuse murder and alleged political cover up of that wee girl in Donegal these days? Undoubtedly some major people know stuff and need to go to the guards wait a minute - they already did!! Muppet?

Yes a truly shocking story. I would like to see that properly solved and anyone who helped the perpetrator prosecuted fully.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 03:03:01 PM
Where are we with the alleged abduction sex abuse murder and alleged political cover up of that wee girl in Donegal these days? Undoubtedly some major people know stuff and need to go to the guards wait a minute - they already did!! Muppet?

Yes a truly shocking story. I would like to see that properly solved and anyone who helped the perpetrator prosecuted fully.

One of them is a FF councillor who has remained connected with the party ever since these long standing allegations have been made.

Of course the mainstream media and establishment parties in the free state have absolutely no interest in helping get justice for this case.

https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/807547991292837888

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/home/227238/donegal-cllr-sean-mceniff-may-never-be-able-to-give-evidence-in-any-court-his-solicitor-tells-court.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 04:07:54 PM
https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/807008354241572868
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 04:38:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 03:03:01 PM
Where are we with the alleged abduction sex abuse murder and alleged political cover up of that wee girl in Donegal these days? Undoubtedly some major people know stuff and need to go to the guards wait a minute - they already did!! Muppet?

Yes a truly shocking story. I would like to see that properly solved and anyone who helped the perpetrator prosecuted fully.

One of them is a FF councillor who has remained connected with the party ever since these long standing allegations have been made.

Of course the mainstream media and establishment parties in the free state have absolutely no interest in helping get justice for this case.

https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/807547991292837888

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/home/227238/donegal-cllr-sean-mceniff-may-never-be-able-to-give-evidence-in-any-court-his-solicitor-tells-court.html

Yes it is shocking. But, as you said yourself, your outrage is only faux outrage if you don't think Stack's murder was also wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 04:55:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 04:38:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 03:03:01 PM
Where are we with the alleged abduction sex abuse murder and alleged political cover up of that wee girl in Donegal these days? Undoubtedly some major people know stuff and need to go to the guards wait a minute - they already did!! Muppet?

Yes a truly shocking story. I would like to see that properly solved and anyone who helped the perpetrator prosecuted fully.

One of them is a FF councillor who has remained connected with the party ever since these long standing allegations have been made.

Of course the mainstream media and establishment parties in the free state have absolutely no interest in helping get justice for this case.

https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/807547991292837888

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/home/227238/donegal-cllr-sean-mceniff-may-never-be-able-to-give-evidence-in-any-court-his-solicitor-tells-court.html

Yes it is shocking. But, as you said yourself, your outrage is only faux outrage if you don't think Stack's murder was also wrong.

I didn't make any comment on Stack's murder and whether it was wrong or not. I merely said it's not as black and white as you make, the murder was not indiscriminate (as you claimed), Stack's conduct in his job was the reason for his death and there are comments to corroborate that  - whatever credibility you'd like to attach to that. That's not a justification for why he was killed and I made that clear in the post you're referring to.

You rarely seem to express your shame and disgust at FF, FG or Labour despite the widespread corruption and cover-ups they have been involved in. There's two murder suspects there - one a 6 year old girl and the other a priest who was killed after he was conned in land deal by the accused referenced in my posts above and FF's fingerprints are all over the cover-up's relating to these cases?

What do you think of that?

Also, what do you think of Lemass?

What do you think of Collins?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:08:07 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 04:55:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 04:38:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 03:03:01 PM
Where are we with the alleged abduction sex abuse murder and alleged political cover up of that wee girl in Donegal these days? Undoubtedly some major people know stuff and need to go to the guards wait a minute - they already did!! Muppet?

Yes a truly shocking story. I would like to see that properly solved and anyone who helped the perpetrator prosecuted fully.

One of them is a FF councillor who has remained connected with the party ever since these long standing allegations have been made.

Of course the mainstream media and establishment parties in the free state have absolutely no interest in helping get justice for this case.

https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/807547991292837888

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/home/227238/donegal-cllr-sean-mceniff-may-never-be-able-to-give-evidence-in-any-court-his-solicitor-tells-court.html

Yes it is shocking. But, as you said yourself, your outrage is only faux outrage if you don't think Stack's murder was also wrong.

I didn't make any comment on Stack's murder and whether it was wrong or not. I merely said it's not as black and white as you make, the murder was not indiscriminate (as you claimed), Stack's conduct in his job was the reason for his death and there are comments to corroborate that  - whatever credibility you'd like to attach to that. That's not a justification for why he was killed and I made that clear in the post you're referring to.

You rarely seem to express your shame and disgust at FF, FG or Labour despite the widespread corruption and cover-ups they have been involved in. There's two murder suspects there - one a 6 year old girl and the other a priest who was killed after he was conned in land deal by the accused referenced in my posts above and FF's fingerprints are all over the cover-up's relating to these cases?

What do you think of that?[/b]

Also, what do you think of Lemass?

What do you think of Collins?


Oh but you did. You accused anyone who said it was wrong of faux outrage.

Then you hilariously claimed faux outrage was when someone didn't criticise 'the other side'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I have criticised FF, FG and Labour. All the time. Most people here have done it and the Irish media do it all the time. But at the moment people are criticising SF for 30 years of lying over a murder, so now you are pretending that no one ever criticises FF, FG or Labour.

Whataboutery isn't an argument. It is just silly.

Collins and Lemass were both Shinners. What about them?




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:08:07 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 04:55:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 04:38:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 03:03:01 PM
Where are we with the alleged abduction sex abuse murder and alleged political cover up of that wee girl in Donegal these days? Undoubtedly some major people know stuff and need to go to the guards wait a minute - they already did!! Muppet?

Yes a truly shocking story. I would like to see that properly solved and anyone who helped the perpetrator prosecuted fully.

One of them is a FF councillor who has remained connected with the party ever since these long standing allegations have been made.

Of course the mainstream media and establishment parties in the free state have absolutely no interest in helping get justice for this case.

https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/807547991292837888

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/home/227238/donegal-cllr-sean-mceniff-may-never-be-able-to-give-evidence-in-any-court-his-solicitor-tells-court.html

Yes it is shocking. But, as you said yourself, your outrage is only faux outrage if you don't think Stack's murder was also wrong.

I didn't make any comment on Stack's murder and whether it was wrong or not. I merely said it's not as black and white as you make, the murder was not indiscriminate (as you claimed), Stack's conduct in his job was the reason for his death and there are comments to corroborate that  - whatever credibility you'd like to attach to that. That's not a justification for why he was killed and I made that clear in the post you're referring to.

You rarely seem to express your shame and disgust at FF, FG or Labour despite the widespread corruption and cover-ups they have been involved in. There's two murder suspects there - one a 6 year old girl and the other a priest who was killed after he was conned in land deal by the accused referenced in my posts above and FF's fingerprints are all over the cover-up's relating to these cases?

What do you think of that?[/b]

Also, what do you think of Lemass?

What do you think of Collins?


Oh but you did. You accused anyone who said it was wrong of faux outrage.

Then you hilariously claimed faux outrage was when someone didn't criticise 'the other side'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I have criticised FF, FG and Labour. All the time. Most people here have done it and the Irish media do it all the time. But at the moment people are criticising SF for 30 years of lying over a murder, so now you are pretending that no one ever criticises FF, FG or Labour.

Whataboutery isn't an argument. It is just silly.

Collins and Lemass were both Shinners. What about them?

Unsurprisingly you are dealing in misinformation.

Now I will break your lies into two parts

a) I never accused anyone who is outraged at the murder of engaging in faux outrage, I accused you of it.
b) I made the point that you seem to be a man of contradictions, someone who only seems willing to comment on outrages on one side of the divide and only when certain elements are implicated.

I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

Maybe you'd like to show us your posts where you have shown your outrage at the murder cases of Fr Niall Molloy and Mary Boyle?

Do you support justice for Michael Lynagh and the Lynagh family.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:08:07 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 04:55:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 04:38:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 03:03:01 PM
Where are we with the alleged abduction sex abuse murder and alleged political cover up of that wee girl in Donegal these days? Undoubtedly some major people know stuff and need to go to the guards wait a minute - they already did!! Muppet?

Yes a truly shocking story. I would like to see that properly solved and anyone who helped the perpetrator prosecuted fully.

One of them is a FF councillor who has remained connected with the party ever since these long standing allegations have been made.

Of course the mainstream media and establishment parties in the free state have absolutely no interest in helping get justice for this case.

https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/807547991292837888

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/home/227238/donegal-cllr-sean-mceniff-may-never-be-able-to-give-evidence-in-any-court-his-solicitor-tells-court.html

Yes it is shocking. But, as you said yourself, your outrage is only faux outrage if you don't think Stack's murder was also wrong.

I didn't make any comment on Stack's murder and whether it was wrong or not. I merely said it's not as black and white as you make, the murder was not indiscriminate (as you claimed), Stack's conduct in his job was the reason for his death and there are comments to corroborate that  - whatever credibility you'd like to attach to that. That's not a justification for why he was killed and I made that clear in the post you're referring to.

You rarely seem to express your shame and disgust at FF, FG or Labour despite the widespread corruption and cover-ups they have been involved in. There's two murder suspects there - one a 6 year old girl and the other a priest who was killed after he was conned in land deal by the accused referenced in my posts above and FF's fingerprints are all over the cover-up's relating to these cases?

What do you think of that?[/b]

Also, what do you think of Lemass?

What do you think of Collins?


Oh but you did. You accused anyone who said it was wrong of faux outrage.

Then you hilariously claimed faux outrage was when someone didn't criticise 'the other side'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I have criticised FF, FG and Labour. All the time. Most people here have done it and the Irish media do it all the time. But at the moment people are criticising SF for 30 years of lying over a murder, so now you are pretending that no one ever criticises FF, FG or Labour.

Whataboutery isn't an argument. It is just silly.

Collins and Lemass were both Shinners. What about them?

Unsurprisingly you are dealing in misinformation.

Now I will break your lies into two parts

a) I never accused anyone who is outraged at the murder of engaging in faux outrage, I accused you of it.
b) I made the point that you seem to be a man of contradictions, someone who only seems willing to comment on outrages on one side of the divide and only when certain elements are implicated.

I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

Maybe you'd like to show us your posts where you have shown your outrage at the murder cases of Fr Niall Molloy and Mary Boyle?

Do you support justice for Michael Lynagh and the Lynagh family.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. Read it a few times snd you might understand why, although given your complete blindness to reality, it is unlikely.

Here, I'll do something similar to see if you understand.

I never accused anyone of being a clown, I accused you of being a clown.  ;D ;D ;D

With logic like that, you can justify anything.

Also, I have condemned the murder of Mary Boyle and Father Molloy. Most recently a few posts ago regarding Mary Boyle. But you wouldn't notice. I could condemn them and other murders a million times, but you still wouldn't notice. You only pop up when someone dares to condemn a SF/IRA murder and then you claim it is faux outrage.  ;D ;D

You are a joke....

....but I never accused anyone of being a joke.   ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

I note that you condemned Collins and Lemass for having 'blood on their hands'.

I never said anything different.

Of course I did point out that they were both Shinners. But you didn't seem to notice that either.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:55:16 PM
Here Bomber, let's examine our commitment to avoid double standards and faux outrage.

I object to all murders. Whether it be a child, like Mary Boyle, Father Niall Molloy, Brian Stack, Jerry McCabe or Operation Flavius. All were murders. All were wrong, as were countless more.

Your turn....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:08:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:08:07 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 04:55:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 04:38:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 10, 2016, 03:03:01 PM
Where are we with the alleged abduction sex abuse murder and alleged political cover up of that wee girl in Donegal these days? Undoubtedly some major people know stuff and need to go to the guards wait a minute - they already did!! Muppet?

Yes a truly shocking story. I would like to see that properly solved and anyone who helped the perpetrator prosecuted fully.

One of them is a FF councillor who has remained connected with the party ever since these long standing allegations have been made.

Of course the mainstream media and establishment parties in the free state have absolutely no interest in helping get justice for this case.

https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/807547991292837888

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/home/227238/donegal-cllr-sean-mceniff-may-never-be-able-to-give-evidence-in-any-court-his-solicitor-tells-court.html

Yes it is shocking. But, as you said yourself, your outrage is only faux outrage if you don't think Stack's murder was also wrong.

I didn't make any comment on Stack's murder and whether it was wrong or not. I merely said it's not as black and white as you make, the murder was not indiscriminate (as you claimed), Stack's conduct in his job was the reason for his death and there are comments to corroborate that  - whatever credibility you'd like to attach to that. That's not a justification for why he was killed and I made that clear in the post you're referring to.

You rarely seem to express your shame and disgust at FF, FG or Labour despite the widespread corruption and cover-ups they have been involved in. There's two murder suspects there - one a 6 year old girl and the other a priest who was killed after he was conned in land deal by the accused referenced in my posts above and FF's fingerprints are all over the cover-up's relating to these cases?

What do you think of that?[/b]

Also, what do you think of Lemass?

What do you think of Collins?


Oh but you did. You accused anyone who said it was wrong of faux outrage.

Then you hilariously claimed faux outrage was when someone didn't criticise 'the other side'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I have criticised FF, FG and Labour. All the time. Most people here have done it and the Irish media do it all the time. But at the moment people are criticising SF for 30 years of lying over a murder, so now you are pretending that no one ever criticises FF, FG or Labour.

Whataboutery isn't an argument. It is just silly.

Collins and Lemass were both Shinners. What about them?

Unsurprisingly you are dealing in misinformation.

Now I will break your lies into two parts

a) I never accused anyone who is outraged at the murder of engaging in faux outrage, I accused you of it.
b) I made the point that you seem to be a man of contradictions, someone who only seems willing to comment on outrages on one side of the divide and only when certain elements are implicated.

I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

Maybe you'd like to show us your posts where you have shown your outrage at the murder cases of Fr Niall Molloy and Mary Boyle?

Do you support justice for Michael Lynagh and the Lynagh family.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. Read it a few times snd you might understand why, although given your complete blindness to reality, it is unlikely.

Here, I'll do something similar to see if you understand.

I never accused anyone of being a clown, I accused you of being a clown.  ;D ;D ;D

With logic like that, you can justify anything.

Also, I have condemned the murder of Mary Boyle and Father Molloy. Most recently a few posts ago regarding Mary Boyle. But you wouldn't notice. I could condemn them and other murders a million times, but you still wouldn't notice. You only pop up when someone dares to condemn a SF/IRA murder and then you claim it is faux outrage.  ;D ;D

You are a joke....

....but I never accused anyone of being a joke.   ;D

I think you have tenuous grasp of the English language.

You have completely misstated what I have said. As I have said I never accused anyone who feels outraged at the murder, I accused you - if you are having problems understanding this I would like you to put forward on how you are anyone. I have picked you out in isolation and have shown you to be a hypocrite.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I have asked you to convey your disgust at the murders of Mary Boyle and all we get is scant lip service. You have hundreds of posts on this thread about your disgust at Sinn Fein, maybe you would like to balance that and post up links to the hundreds of posts you have towards Fine Gale and Fianna Fail and the blood their leaders and founders have on their hands.

It's all about balance, something I have and you clearly have not.

Why don't you got and put up another facade of smileys for us, it might detract away form the spiders web of double standards you have uncovered yourself in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

I note that you condemned Collins and Lemass for having 'blood on their hands'.

I never said anything different.

Of course I did point out that they were both Shinners. But you didn't seem to notice that either.

Post up your multiple condemnations and disgust at Collins and Lemass for us.

Collins is regarded as the founding father of Fine Gael, his hands were dripping with blood.
Lemass and DeValera were both leaders of FF, their hands were also dripping with blood.

Now you either have multiple posts with the same level of condemnation for Collins, De Valera, Lemass, FF and FG as you do for Sinn Fein or you don't?

The onus on you is to clear your name of these assertions, saying they exist when there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them is likely to be more lies from yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:55:16 PM
Here Bomber, let's examine our commitment to avoid double standards and faux outrage.

I object to all murders. Whether it be a child, like Mary Boyle, Father Niall Molloy, Brian Stack, Jerry McCabe or Operation Flavius. All were murders. All were wrong, as were countless more.

Your turn....

Very strange contributions in this thread compared to the your supposed outrage to the Mary Boyle murder on the specified  thread?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=26999.0

You're a walking, talking contradiction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

I note that you condemned Collins and Lemass for having 'blood on their hands'.

I never said anything different.

Of course I did point out that they were both Shinners. But you didn't seem to notice that either.

Post up your multiple condemnations and disgust at Collins and Lemass for us.

Collins is regarded as the founding father of Fine Gael, his hands were dripping with blood.
Lemass and DeValera were both leaders of FF, their hands were also dripping with blood.

Now you either have multiple posts with the same level of condemnation for Collins, De Valera, Lemass, FF and FG as you do for Sinn Fein or you don't?

The onus on you is to clear your name of these assertions, saying they exist when there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them is likely to be more lies from yourself.


The onus is on me?  ;D ;D ;D

Say that to Gerry Adams, or would your apply double standards as usual?


Yes Collins and Lemass had blood on their hands. I am in agreement with you. Collins in particular was a cold blooded killer.

But as usual you completely miss the point.

FF & FG formed from the blood of SF. I am completely in agreement with you. Collins and Lemass have blood on their hands. I am not disputing it. Never have. You seem to have some funny assumption about, along the usual Shinner lines, that I must worship Collins and Lemass, so thus I must worship the modern IRA. Well I don't worship any of them.

I am against all murderers. I know it is difficult for you to understand, because you are only outraged at the deaths of your own. You are desperately trying to invent double standards where there aren't any, so you can feel happy with your own double standards.

Now do you condemn all murders, or are some ok?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:35:00 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:55:16 PM
Here Bomber, let's examine our commitment to avoid double standards and faux outrage.

I object to all murders. Whether it be a child, like Mary Boyle, Father Niall Molloy, Brian Stack, Jerry McCabe or Operation Flavius. All were murders. All were wrong, as were countless more.

Your turn....

Very strange contributions in this thread compared to the your supposed outrage to the Mary Boyle murder on the specified  thread?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=26999.0

You're a walking, talking contradiction.

My two posts answered the posts, which I even quoted, outlining libel laws for internet posts making allegations. Surely even you can follow a conversation. And I have posted above on the Mary Boyle. As I have told you a number of times now. But you keep ignoring it.

Your faux outrage at Mary Boyle is proven by your silence on Brian Stack.

Try this Bomber.

I am appalled at both the deaths of Mary Boyle AND Brian Stack. Disgusting murders by disgusting people. Those covering them, and their supporters, up are just as bad imho.

Can you say that Bomber?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

I note that you condemned Collins and Lemass for having 'blood on their hands'.

I never said anything different.

Of course I did point out that they were both Shinners. But you didn't seem to notice that either.

Post up your multiple condemnations and disgust at Collins and Lemass for us.

Collins is regarded as the founding father of Fine Gael, his hands were dripping with blood.
Lemass and DeValera were both leaders of FF, their hands were also dripping with blood.

Now you either have multiple posts with the same level of condemnation for Collins, De Valera, Lemass, FF and FG as you do for Sinn Fein or you don't?

The onus on you is to clear your name of these assertions, saying they exist when there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them is likely to be more lies from yourself.


The onus is on me?  ;D ;D ;D

Say that to Gerry Adams, or would your apply double standards as usual?


Yes Collins and Lemass had blood on their hands. I am in agreement with you. Collins in particular was a cold blooded killer.

But as usual you completely miss the point.

FF & FG formed from the blood of SF. I am completely in agreement with you. Collins and Lemass have blood on their hands. I am not disputing it. Never have. You seem to have some funny assumption about, along the usual Shinner lines, that I must worship Collins and Lemass, so thus I must worship the modern IRA. Well I don't worship any of them.

I am against all murderers. I know it is difficult for you to understand, because you are only outraged at the deaths of your own. You are desperately trying to invent double standards where there aren't any, so you can feel happy with your own double standards.

Now do you condemn all murders, or are some ok?

Yet it has to be dragged out of with regard Lemass and Collins, strange that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:41:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:35:00 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:55:16 PM
Here Bomber, let's examine our commitment to avoid double standards and faux outrage.

I object to all murders. Whether it be a child, like Mary Boyle, Father Niall Molloy, Brian Stack, Jerry McCabe or Operation Flavius. All were murders. All were wrong, as were countless more.

Your turn....

Very strange contributions in this thread compared to the your supposed outrage to the Mary Boyle murder on the specified  thread?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=26999.0

You're a walking, talking contradiction.

My two posts answered the posts, which I even quoted, outlining libel laws for internet posts making allegations. Surely even you can follow a conversation. And I have posted above on the Mary Boyle. As I have told you a number of times now. But you keep ignoring it.

Your faux outrage at Mary Boyle is proven by your silence on Brian Stack.

Try this Bomber.

I am appalled at both the deaths of Mary Boyle AND Brian Stack. Disgusting murders by disgusting people. Those covering them, and their supporters, up are just as bad imho.

Can you say that Bomber?

So libel laws are your excuse for not commenting on the Mary Boyle case.

What's your excuse for commenting on Brian Stack's case?

It's seem you operate on double standards.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on December 10, 2016, 06:42:26 PM
Of course Lemass and De Valera had no difficulty admitting their involvement in the Irish Volunteers etc. Adams has denied any membership of the I.R.A. The question which should be asked of Adams is "Why wasnt he a member of the IRA?"
Considering the nationalist population of Belfast including Bombay St Short Strand etc were under siege in 1969 and onwards what did Adams do?

Martin McGuinness Martin Ferris etc have no difficulty admitting their past. Its Adams lies that has cornered him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:46:19 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

I note that you condemned Collins and Lemass for having 'blood on their hands'.

I never said anything different.

Of course I did point out that they were both Shinners. But you didn't seem to notice that either.

Post up your multiple condemnations and disgust at Collins and Lemass for us.

Collins is regarded as the founding father of Fine Gael, his hands were dripping with blood.
Lemass and DeValera were both leaders of FF, their hands were also dripping with blood.

Now you either have multiple posts with the same level of condemnation for Collins, De Valera, Lemass, FF and FG as you do for Sinn Fein or you don't?

The onus on you is to clear your name of these assertions, saying they exist when there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them is likely to be more lies from yourself.


The onus is on me?  ;D ;D ;D

Say that to Gerry Adams, or would your apply double standards as usual?


Yes Collins and Lemass had blood on their hands. I am in agreement with you. Collins in particular was a cold blooded killer.

But as usual you completely miss the point.

FF & FG formed from the blood of SF. I am completely in agreement with you. Collins and Lemass have blood on their hands. I am not disputing it. Never have. You seem to have some funny assumption about, along the usual Shinner lines, that I must worship Collins and Lemass, so thus I must worship the modern IRA. Well I don't worship any of them.

I am against all murderers. I know it is difficult for you to understand, because you are only outraged at the deaths of your own. You are desperately trying to invent double standards where there aren't any, so you can feel happy with your own double standards.

Now do you condemn all murders, or are some ok?

Yet it has to be dragged out of with regard Lemass and Collins, strange that.

I condemn whoever you want me to condemn, for the blood on their hands.

But you refuse to even negatively comment on the murders being discussed (except of course to shamefully blame the victim for his own death), never mind condemn them.

Yet you accuse me of double standards.  ;D ;D


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:47:30 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:41:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:35:00 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:55:16 PM
Here Bomber, let's examine our commitment to avoid double standards and faux outrage.

I object to all murders. Whether it be a child, like Mary Boyle, Father Niall Molloy, Brian Stack, Jerry McCabe or Operation Flavius. All were murders. All were wrong, as were countless more.

Your turn....

Very strange contributions in this thread compared to the your supposed outrage to the Mary Boyle murder on the specified  thread?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=26999.0

You're a walking, talking contradiction.

My two posts answered the posts, which I even quoted, outlining libel laws for internet posts making allegations. Surely even you can follow a conversation. And I have posted above on the Mary Boyle. As I have told you a number of times now. But you keep ignoring it.

Your faux outrage at Mary Boyle is proven by your silence on Brian Stack.

Try this Bomber.

I am appalled at both the deaths of Mary Boyle AND Brian Stack. Disgusting murders by disgusting people. Those covering them, and their supporters, up are just as bad imho.

Can you say that Bomber?

So libel laws are your excuse for not commenting on the Mary Boyle case.

What's your excuse for commenting on Brian Stack's case?

It's seem you operate on double standards.

I have condemned the murder and the cover up in the Mary Boyle case.

Over to you Mr Hyprocrite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:04:47 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 10, 2016, 06:42:26 PM
Of course Lemass and De Valera had no difficulty admitting their involvement in the Irish Volunteers etc. Adams has denied any membership of the I.R.A. The question which should be asked of Adams is "Why wasnt he a member of the IRA?"
Considering the nationalist population of Belfast including Bombay St Short Strand etc were under siege in 1969 and onwards what did Adams do?

Martin McGuinness Martin Ferris etc have no difficulty admitting their past. Its Adams lies that has cornered him.

His party and his followers can never deviate from his position, so they are all cornered by Adams' contradictions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:46:19 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

I note that you condemned Collins and Lemass for having 'blood on their hands'.

I never said anything different.

Of course I did point out that they were both Shinners. But you didn't seem to notice that either.

Post up your multiple condemnations and disgust at Collins and Lemass for us.

Collins is regarded as the founding father of Fine Gael, his hands were dripping with blood.
Lemass and DeValera were both leaders of FF, their hands were also dripping with blood.

Now you either have multiple posts with the same level of condemnation for Collins, De Valera, Lemass, FF and FG as you do for Sinn Fein or you don't?

The onus on you is to clear your name of these assertions, saying they exist when there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them is likely to be more lies from yourself.


The onus is on me?  ;D ;D ;D

Say that to Gerry Adams, or would your apply double standards as usual?


Yes Collins and Lemass had blood on their hands. I am in agreement with you. Collins in particular was a cold blooded killer.

But as usual you completely miss the point.

FF & FG formed from the blood of SF. I am completely in agreement with you. Collins and Lemass have blood on their hands. I am not disputing it. Never have. You seem to have some funny assumption about, along the usual Shinner lines, that I must worship Collins and Lemass, so thus I must worship the modern IRA. Well I don't worship any of them.

I am against all murderers. I know it is difficult for you to understand, because you are only outraged at the deaths of your own. You are desperately trying to invent double standards where there aren't any, so you can feel happy with your own double standards.

Now do you condemn all murders, or are some ok?

Yet it has to be dragged out of with regard Lemass and Collins, strange that.

I condemn whoever you want me to condemn, for the blood on their hands.

But you refuse to even negatively comment on the murders being discussed (except of course to shamefully blame the victim for his own death), never mind condemn them.

Yet you accuse me of double standards.  ;D ;D

I accuse you of double standards because certain ones have to be dragged out of you while other ones are repeated ad nauseaum.

Show me where you demanded justice for Fr Niall Molloy and Mary Boyle on here previous to today and I'll withdraw my remark.

I merely add balance to the debate, my job here is not to judge, it is to apply balance, it is to make sure that hypocrites like you are called to task and made apply your standards across the board, something that seems to be lacking on your part.

Have you ever voted FF or FG btw?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:22:25 PM
I have done what you asked and condemned everyone you asked me about. I will condemn the killers of Mary Boyle, Niall Molloy and whoever you want. Over and over again.

But you have not done anything I've asked. You accuse me of double standards. You accuse me of being a hypocrite. And then you say your job here is 'not to judge'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But you are also funny. 'I merely add balance to the debate, my job here is not to judge, it is to apply balance'. Your idea of balance would be along the same lines of Tony Fearon, Willie Frazer and Benjamin Netanyahu.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:23:02 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 10, 2016, 06:42:26 PM
Of course Lemass and De Valera had no difficulty admitting their involvement in the Irish Volunteers etc. Adams has denied any membership of the I.R.A. The question which should be asked of Adams is "Why wasnt he a member of the IRA?"
Considering the nationalist population of Belfast including Bombay St Short Strand etc were under siege in 1969 and onwards what did Adams do?

Martin McGuinness Martin Ferris etc have no difficulty admitting their past. Its Adams lies that has cornered him.

So you're unhappy that Adams hasn't bowed to allegations that cannot be proven.

A very odd slight to it.

Did De Valera and Lemass get incessant media attention about the heinous acts committed by their men during the war?

Oh ya, that's right - Dev owned the free state media.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:22:25 PM
I have done what you asked and condemned everyone you asked me about. I will condemn the killers of Mary Boyle, Niall Molloy and whoever you want. Over and over again.

But you have not done anything I've asked. You accuse me of double standards. You accuse me of being a hypocrite. And then you say your job here is 'not to judge'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But you are also funny. 'I merely add balance to the debate, my job here is not to judge, it is to apply balance'. Your idea of balance would be along the same lines of Tony Fearon, Willie Frazer and Benjamin Netanyahu.

You've had it dragged out of you. Again, I will ask you to show your posts of condemnation in those cases before they were dragged out of you today.

You have so far fallen short each time that question has been put to but continue to protest innocence behind a facade of smileys. You either can back up your claims, or you can't - that will be your judgement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:22:25 PM
I have done what you asked and condemned everyone you asked me about. I will condemn the killers of Mary Boyle, Niall Molloy and whoever you want. Over and over again.

But you have not done anything I've asked. You accuse me of double standards. You accuse me of being a hypocrite. And then you say your job here is 'not to judge'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But you are also funny. 'I merely add balance to the debate, my job here is not to judge, it is to apply balance'. Your idea of balance would be along the same lines of Tony Fearon, Willie Frazer and Benjamin Netanyahu.

You've had it dragged out of you. Again, I will ask you to show your posts of condemnation in those cases before they were dragged out of you today.

You have so far fallen short each time that question has been put to but continue to protest innocence behind a facade of smileys. You either can back up your claims, or you can't - that will be your judgement.

You didn't drag anything out of me. I condemned them, as you asked me to.

Here is a list of murders YOU have not condemned on GaaBoard:

Jesus Christ
The Gibraltar 3
The East Tyrone Brigade

Using your logic, unless of course you are applying double standards, you have no problem with these killings because until now you have never condemned them?

Better still, now that I have searched the site and shown that you have never condemned these killings, it is too late to do it now. I will claim that I had to drag it out of you and of course imply that you are indifferent to these killings and thus a hypocrite and quite possibly a loyalist.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:38:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:08:07 PM


I have criticised FF, FG and Labour. All the time. Most people here have done it and the Irish media do it all the time. But at the moment people are criticising SF for 30 years of lying over a murder, so now you are pretending that no one ever criticises FF, FG or Labour.



Please post up examples of all the times you have criticised FF, FG and Labour.

I'm not pretending. Just look at how the mainstream media have not carried the following stories in very recent times:

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:42:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:22:25 PM
I have done what you asked and condemned everyone you asked me about. I will condemn the killers of Mary Boyle, Niall Molloy and whoever you want. Over and over again.

But you have not done anything I've asked. You accuse me of double standards. You accuse me of being a hypocrite. And then you say your job here is 'not to judge'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But you are also funny. 'I merely add balance to the debate, my job here is not to judge, it is to apply balance'. Your idea of balance would be along the same lines of Tony Fearon, Willie Frazer and Benjamin Netanyahu.

You've had it dragged out of you. Again, I will ask you to show your posts of condemnation in those cases before they were dragged out of you today.

You have so far fallen short each time that question has been put to but continue to protest innocence behind a facade of smileys. You either can back up your claims, or you can't - that will be your judgement.

You didn't drag anything out of me. I condemned them, as you asked me to.

Here is a list of murders YOU have not condemned on GaaBoard:

Jesus Christ
The Gibraltar 3
The East Tyrone Brigade

Using your logic, unless of course you are applying double standards, you have no problem with these killings because until now you have never condemned them?

Better still, now that I have searched the site and shown that you have never condemned these killings, it is too late to do it now. I will claim that I had to drag it out of you and of course imply that you are indifferent to these killings and thus a hypocrite and quite possibly a loyalist.

I haven't heard a dickie bird out of you when it comes to FF, FG and Labour when it comes to scandal.

What do you think of the brother of a FG minister getting off with probation after pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl?

Did you come on here and condemn that or are you just selective in the matters you are willing to speak up about? Maybe I missed it.

Did you condemn the role of Michael Noonan in ignoring the letters that were sent to him about child abuse care in a foster home and running away from a person who wanted to bring this matter up with him? I must have missed this.

It's funny how some matters have you raise your head above the parapet and others don't.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:42:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:22:25 PM
I have done what you asked and condemned everyone you asked me about. I will condemn the killers of Mary Boyle, Niall Molloy and whoever you want. Over and over again.

But you have not done anything I've asked. You accuse me of double standards. You accuse me of being a hypocrite. And then you say your job here is 'not to judge'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But you are also funny. 'I merely add balance to the debate, my job here is not to judge, it is to apply balance'. Your idea of balance would be along the same lines of Tony Fearon, Willie Frazer and Benjamin Netanyahu.

You've had it dragged out of you. Again, I will ask you to show your posts of condemnation in those cases before they were dragged out of you today.

You have so far fallen short each time that question has been put to but continue to protest innocence behind a facade of smileys. You either can back up your claims, or you can't - that will be your judgement.

You didn't drag anything out of me. I condemned them, as you asked me to.

Here is a list of murders YOU have not condemned on GaaBoard:

Jesus Christ
The Gibraltar 3
The East Tyrone Brigade

Using your logic, unless of course you are applying double standards, you have no problem with these killings because until now you have never condemned them?

Better still, now that I have searched the site and shown that you have never condemned these killings, it is too late to do it now. I will claim that I had to drag it out of you and of course imply that you are indifferent to these killings and thus a hypocrite and quite possibly a loyalist.

I haven't heard a dickie bird out of you when it comes to FF, FG and Labour when it comes to scandal.

What do you think of the brother of a FG minister getting off with probation after pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl?

Did you come on here and condemn that or are you just selective in the matters you are willing to speak up about? Maybe I missed it.

Did you condemn the role of Michael Noonan in ignoring the letters that were sent to him about child abuse care in a foster home and running away from a person who wanted to bring this matter up with him? I must have missed this.

It's funny how some matters have you raise your head above the parapet and others don't.

Your whataboutery is a joke.

You STILL didn't condemn the deaths of all of the Republican deaths.

So you must be a loyalist.

I will drag this out of you yet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:53:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:42:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 07:22:25 PM
I have done what you asked and condemned everyone you asked me about. I will condemn the killers of Mary Boyle, Niall Molloy and whoever you want. Over and over again.

But you have not done anything I've asked. You accuse me of double standards. You accuse me of being a hypocrite. And then you say your job here is 'not to judge'.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But you are also funny. 'I merely add balance to the debate, my job here is not to judge, it is to apply balance'. Your idea of balance would be along the same lines of Tony Fearon, Willie Frazer and Benjamin Netanyahu.

You've had it dragged out of you. Again, I will ask you to show your posts of condemnation in those cases before they were dragged out of you today.

You have so far fallen short each time that question has been put to but continue to protest innocence behind a facade of smileys. You either can back up your claims, or you can't - that will be your judgement.

You didn't drag anything out of me. I condemned them, as you asked me to.

Here is a list of murders YOU have not condemned on GaaBoard:

Jesus Christ
The Gibraltar 3
The East Tyrone Brigade

Using your logic, unless of course you are applying double standards, you have no problem with these killings because until now you have never condemned them?

Better still, now that I have searched the site and shown that you have never condemned these killings, it is too late to do it now. I will claim that I had to drag it out of you and of course imply that you are indifferent to these killings and thus a hypocrite and quite possibly a loyalist.

I haven't heard a dickie bird out of you when it comes to FF, FG and Labour when it comes to scandal.

What do you think of the brother of a FG minister getting off with probation after pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl?

Did you come on here and condemn that or are you just selective in the matters you are willing to speak up about? Maybe I missed it.

Did you condemn the role of Michael Noonan in ignoring the letters that were sent to him about child abuse care in a foster home and running away from a person who wanted to bring this matter up with him? I must have missed this.

It's funny how some matters have you raise your head above the parapet and others don't.

Your whataboutery is a joke.

You STILL didn't condemn the deaths of the East Tyrone Brigade.

So you must be a loyalist.

I will drag this out of you yet.

Whataboutery is a big worry for you, it's a massive issue for your integrity and highlighting the hypocrisy of the matter.

When it comes to the murder of Mary Boyle (a 6 year old girl), libel is your biggest worry in the discussion - funny how libel doesn't extend to your worries with the Brian Stack case.

Numerous times you have been asked to back up your claims, numerous times you have shown your claims to be lies.

What about justice for Michael Lynagh and the Lyangh family?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
I feel desperately sorry for the Lynagh's parents. They were anti-IRA and look what membership of the IRA brought on that family.



As for Mary Boyle, I have condemned that murder and the cover up over and over again. But you won't read that, because it makes you the liar, and it make you the hypocrite, and it makes you the one applying double standards.

You are a moral fraud Bomber.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:18:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
I feel desperately sorry for the Lynagh's parents. They were anti-IRA and look what membership of the IRA brought on that family.



As for Mary Boyle, I have condemned that murder and the cover up over and over again. But you won't read that, because it makes you the liar, and it make you the hypocrite, and it makes you the one applying double standards.

You are a moral fraud Bomber.

You haven't condemned over and over again.

Look back at the Mary Boyle thread, you cited libel. There are serious allegations of the interference by a longstanding FF politician in the case for a long time, he has been a party member throughout all this and it has never been investigated and received minor media interest. Your response to this was let's be careful because of libel, a direct contradiction to your reaction to the Brian Stack case.

The proof is in the pudding in the Mary Boyle thread, you did not condemn the alleged political corruption in covering up the case, your only postings in that thread made no condemnation of that so quit telling us you have done something over and over again which you haven't.

I am not a moral fraud, I only seek balance and your bias, double standards and numerous contradictions are more borne out with every post you make. Loads of injustices you have never addressed or seem to care about, yet look back through this thread and you constantly pop up on your moral crusades.

Show us the "loads of times" you have criticised FG, Labour and FF.

Tell us about your disgust at the probation sentence Michael Ring's brother received for pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl.

Tell us about your disgust at a government minister who refused to act on child abuse claims.

Because I haven't see any of these condemnations from you on here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:18:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
I feel desperately sorry for the Lynagh's parents. They were anti-IRA and look what membership of the IRA brought on that family.



As for Mary Boyle, I have condemned that murder and the cover up over and over again. But you won't read that, because it makes you the liar, and it make you the hypocrite, and it makes you the one applying double standards.

You are a moral fraud Bomber.

You haven't condemned over and over again.

Look back at the Mary Boyle thread, you cited libel. There are serious allegations of the interference by a longstanding FF politician in the case for a long time, he has been a party member throughout all this and it has never been investigated and received minor media interest. Your response to this was let's be careful because of libel, a direct contradiction to your reaction to the Brian Stack case.

The proof is in the pudding in the Mary Boyle thread, you did not condemn the alleged political corruption in covering up the case, your only postings in that thread made no condemnation of that so quit telling us you have done something over and over again which you haven't.

I am not a moral fraud, I only seek balance and your bias, double standards and numerous contradictions are more borne out with every post you make. Loads of injustices you have never addressed or seem to care about, yet look back through this thread and you constantly pop up on your moral crusades.

Show us the "loads of times" you have criticised FG, Labour and FF.

Tell us about your disgust at the probation sentence Michael Ring's brother received for pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl.

Tell us about your disgust at a government minister who refused to act on child abuse claims.

Because I haven't see any of these condemnations from you on here.

Bomber logic:

I haven't seen you condemn the murder of the Gibraltar 3. In fact the only McCann that you spoke about was Tiernan's hair.

I have condemned it. But you haven't, so therefore you must support it. You must be proud of yourself Bomber.

Moving on..

If a government minister refused to act on child abuse claims, then that is shocking. Right up there with the Catholic Church failing to do so. And Gerry Adams. I will condemn them all, if they are ever shown to have failed to protect a child.

But you won't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:38:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:18:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
I feel desperately sorry for the Lynagh's parents. They were anti-IRA and look what membership of the IRA brought on that family.



As for Mary Boyle, I have condemned that murder and the cover up over and over again. But you won't read that, because it makes you the liar, and it make you the hypocrite, and it makes you the one applying double standards.

You are a moral fraud Bomber.

You haven't condemned over and over again.

Look back at the Mary Boyle thread, you cited libel. There are serious allegations of the interference by a longstanding FF politician in the case for a long time, he has been a party member throughout all this and it has never been investigated and received minor media interest. Your response to this was let's be careful because of libel, a direct contradiction to your reaction to the Brian Stack case.

The proof is in the pudding in the Mary Boyle thread, you did not condemn the alleged political corruption in covering up the case, your only postings in that thread made no condemnation of that so quit telling us you have done something over and over again which you haven't.

I am not a moral fraud, I only seek balance and your bias, double standards and numerous contradictions are more borne out with every post you make. Loads of injustices you have never addressed or seem to care about, yet look back through this thread and you constantly pop up on your moral crusades.

Show us the "loads of times" you have criticised FG, Labour and FF.

Tell us about your disgust at the probation sentence Michael Ring's brother received for pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl.

Tell us about your disgust at a government minister who refused to act on child abuse claims.

Because I haven't see any of these condemnations from you on here.

Bomber logic:

I haven't seen you condemn the murder of the Gibraltar 3. In fact the only McCann that you spoke about was Tiernan's hair.

I have condemned it. But you haven't, so therefore you must support it. You must be proud of yourself Bomber.

Moving on..

If a government minister refused to act on child abuse claims, then that is shocking. Right up there with the Catholic Church failing to do so. And Gerry Adams. I will condemn them all, if they are ever shown to have failed to protect a child.

But you won't.

My logic is that you a regular contributor on this thread expressing your disgust and outrage at Adams and the acts the IRA committed.

My logic is that this outrage does not extend to other disgraceful acts within Irish society, for instance, as you're a Mayo man. John Ring, brother of Michael Ring (FG government minister) got away with probation after attempting to rape a teenage girl who was alone in petrol shop. You'd have known about this I'm sure - yet not a dickie bird about your disgust on that. Why?

My logic states that you only express outrage and disgust when those in the firing line suit your agenda and when they don't you remain quiet and don't want to speak out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:45:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:38:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:18:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
I feel desperately sorry for the Lynagh's parents. They were anti-IRA and look what membership of the IRA brought on that family.



As for Mary Boyle, I have condemned that murder and the cover up over and over again. But you won't read that, because it makes you the liar, and it make you the hypocrite, and it makes you the one applying double standards.

You are a moral fraud Bomber.

You haven't condemned over and over again.

Look back at the Mary Boyle thread, you cited libel. There are serious allegations of the interference by a longstanding FF politician in the case for a long time, he has been a party member throughout all this and it has never been investigated and received minor media interest. Your response to this was let's be careful because of libel, a direct contradiction to your reaction to the Brian Stack case.

The proof is in the pudding in the Mary Boyle thread, you did not condemn the alleged political corruption in covering up the case, your only postings in that thread made no condemnation of that so quit telling us you have done something over and over again which you haven't.

I am not a moral fraud, I only seek balance and your bias, double standards and numerous contradictions are more borne out with every post you make. Loads of injustices you have never addressed or seem to care about, yet look back through this thread and you constantly pop up on your moral crusades.

Show us the "loads of times" you have criticised FG, Labour and FF.

Tell us about your disgust at the probation sentence Michael Ring's brother received for pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl.

Tell us about your disgust at a government minister who refused to act on child abuse claims.

Because I haven't see any of these condemnations from you on here.

Bomber logic:

I haven't seen you condemn the murder of the Gibraltar 3. In fact the only McCann that you spoke about was Tiernan's hair.

I have condemned it. But you haven't, so therefore you must support it. You must be proud of yourself Bomber.

Moving on..

If a government minister refused to act on child abuse claims, then that is shocking. Right up there with the Catholic Church failing to do so. And Gerry Adams. I will condemn them all, if they are ever shown to have failed to protect a child.

But you won't.

My logic is that you a regular contributor on this thread expressing your disgust and outrage at Adams and the acts the IRA committed.

My logic is that this outrage does not extend to other disgraceful acts within Irish society, for instance, as you're a Mayo man. John Ring, brother of Michael Ring (FG government minister) got away with probation after attempting to rape a teenage girl who was alone in petrol shop. You'd have known about this I'm sure - yet not a dickie bird about your disgust on that. Why?

My logic states that you only express outrage and disgust when those in the firing line suit your agenda and when they don't you remain quiet and don't want to speak out.

This is the very first time I have ever heard of that claim.

But guess what, I will condemn it if it is true.

But you won't, when it involves Adams, SF or the IRA.

Double Standards. Do you understand the meaning of the words?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:53:25 PM
Is this the case you are outraged at:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/brother-of-fine-gael-minister-only-realised-seriousness-of-sex-assault-on-girl-17-following-counselling-court-told-34542155.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/brother-of-fine-gael-minister-only-realised-seriousness-of-sex-assault-on-girl-17-following-counselling-court-told-34542155.html)



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2016, 09:01:45 PM
I hereby condemn Bomber and Muppet for wasting about 5 pages on this thread.
I also condemn everyone and everything that ever happened.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:53:25 PM
Is this the case you are outraged at:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/brother-of-fine-gael-minister-only-realised-seriousness-of-sex-assault-on-girl-17-following-counselling-court-told-34542155.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/brother-of-fine-gael-minister-only-realised-seriousness-of-sex-assault-on-girl-17-following-counselling-court-told-34542155.html)

It's the case you are clearly not outraged by.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:45:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:38:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:18:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
I feel desperately sorry for the Lynagh's parents. They were anti-IRA and look what membership of the IRA brought on that family.



As for Mary Boyle, I have condemned that murder and the cover up over and over again. But you won't read that, because it makes you the liar, and it make you the hypocrite, and it makes you the one applying double standards.

You are a moral fraud Bomber.

You haven't condemned over and over again.

Look back at the Mary Boyle thread, you cited libel. There are serious allegations of the interference by a longstanding FF politician in the case for a long time, he has been a party member throughout all this and it has never been investigated and received minor media interest. Your response to this was let's be careful because of libel, a direct contradiction to your reaction to the Brian Stack case.

The proof is in the pudding in the Mary Boyle thread, you did not condemn the alleged political corruption in covering up the case, your only postings in that thread made no condemnation of that so quit telling us you have done something over and over again which you haven't.

I am not a moral fraud, I only seek balance and your bias, double standards and numerous contradictions are more borne out with every post you make. Loads of injustices you have never addressed or seem to care about, yet look back through this thread and you constantly pop up on your moral crusades.

Show us the "loads of times" you have criticised FG, Labour and FF.

Tell us about your disgust at the probation sentence Michael Ring's brother received for pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl.

Tell us about your disgust at a government minister who refused to act on child abuse claims.

Because I haven't see any of these condemnations from you on here.

Bomber logic:

I haven't seen you condemn the murder of the Gibraltar 3. In fact the only McCann that you spoke about was Tiernan's hair.

I have condemned it. But you haven't, so therefore you must support it. You must be proud of yourself Bomber.

Moving on..

If a government minister refused to act on child abuse claims, then that is shocking. Right up there with the Catholic Church failing to do so. And Gerry Adams. I will condemn them all, if they are ever shown to have failed to protect a child.

But you won't.

My logic is that you a regular contributor on this thread expressing your disgust and outrage at Adams and the acts the IRA committed.

My logic is that this outrage does not extend to other disgraceful acts within Irish society, for instance, as you're a Mayo man. John Ring, brother of Michael Ring (FG government minister) got away with probation after attempting to rape a teenage girl who was alone in petrol shop. You'd have known about this I'm sure - yet not a dickie bird about your disgust on that. Why?

My logic states that you only express outrage and disgust when those in the firing line suit your agenda and when they don't you remain quiet and don't want to speak out.

This is the very first time I have ever heard of that claim.

But guess what, I will condemn it if it is true.

But you won't, when it involves Adams, SF or the IRA.

Double Standards. Do you understand the meaning of the words?

You never heard of that.

You're from Mayo and you never heard that the brother of a current Government Minister from Castlebar pleaded guilty to the attempted rape of a teenage girl?

See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. The curious case of your double standards just grows and grows.

Tell us why you think you never heard anything about it? Are you disgusted at the "justice" that was meted out there?

Why is that you never hear of these cases but are a regular contributor with your faux outrage in this thread?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:16:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:45:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:38:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:18:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
I feel desperately sorry for the Lynagh's parents. They were anti-IRA and look what membership of the IRA brought on that family.



As for Mary Boyle, I have condemned that murder and the cover up over and over again. But you won't read that, because it makes you the liar, and it make you the hypocrite, and it makes you the one applying double standards.

You are a moral fraud Bomber.

You haven't condemned over and over again.

Look back at the Mary Boyle thread, you cited libel. There are serious allegations of the interference by a longstanding FF politician in the case for a long time, he has been a party member throughout all this and it has never been investigated and received minor media interest. Your response to this was let's be careful because of libel, a direct contradiction to your reaction to the Brian Stack case.

The proof is in the pudding in the Mary Boyle thread, you did not condemn the alleged political corruption in covering up the case, your only postings in that thread made no condemnation of that so quit telling us you have done something over and over again which you haven't.

I am not a moral fraud, I only seek balance and your bias, double standards and numerous contradictions are more borne out with every post you make. Loads of injustices you have never addressed or seem to care about, yet look back through this thread and you constantly pop up on your moral crusades.

Show us the "loads of times" you have criticised FG, Labour and FF.

Tell us about your disgust at the probation sentence Michael Ring's brother received for pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl.

Tell us about your disgust at a government minister who refused to act on child abuse claims.

Because I haven't see any of these condemnations from you on here.

Bomber logic:

I haven't seen you condemn the murder of the Gibraltar 3. In fact the only McCann that you spoke about was Tiernan's hair.

I have condemned it. But you haven't, so therefore you must support it. You must be proud of yourself Bomber.

Moving on..

If a government minister refused to act on child abuse claims, then that is shocking. Right up there with the Catholic Church failing to do so. And Gerry Adams. I will condemn them all, if they are ever shown to have failed to protect a child.

But you won't.

My logic is that you a regular contributor on this thread expressing your disgust and outrage at Adams and the acts the IRA committed.

My logic is that this outrage does not extend to other disgraceful acts within Irish society, for instance, as you're a Mayo man. John Ring, brother of Michael Ring (FG government minister) got away with probation after attempting to rape a teenage girl who was alone in petrol shop. You'd have known about this I'm sure - yet not a dickie bird about your disgust on that. Why?

My logic states that you only express outrage and disgust when those in the firing line suit your agenda and when they don't you remain quiet and don't want to speak out.

This is the very first time I have ever heard of that claim.

But guess what, I will condemn it if it is true.

But you won't, when it involves Adams, SF or the IRA.

Double Standards. Do you understand the meaning of the words?

You never heard of that.

You're from Mayo and you never heard that the brother of a current Government Minister from Castlebar pleaded guilty to the attempted rape of a teenage girl?

See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. The curious case of your double standards just grows and grows.

Tell us why you think you never heard anything about it? Are you disgusted at the "justice" that was meted out there?

Why is that you never hear of these cases but are a regular contributor with your faux outrage in this thread?

Yes, I never heard of it until now.

I condemn all sexual abuse. But you won't.





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 10, 2016, 09:01:45 PM
I hereby condemn Bomber and Muppet for wasting about 5 pages on this thread.
I also condemn everyone and everything that ever happened.

You haven't condemned future outrages.

You will be shot at dawn by the bomber.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 09:20:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:16:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:45:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:38:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 08:18:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
I feel desperately sorry for the Lynagh's parents. They were anti-IRA and look what membership of the IRA brought on that family.



As for Mary Boyle, I have condemned that murder and the cover up over and over again. But you won't read that, because it makes you the liar, and it make you the hypocrite, and it makes you the one applying double standards.

You are a moral fraud Bomber.

You haven't condemned over and over again.

Look back at the Mary Boyle thread, you cited libel. There are serious allegations of the interference by a longstanding FF politician in the case for a long time, he has been a party member throughout all this and it has never been investigated and received minor media interest. Your response to this was let's be careful because of libel, a direct contradiction to your reaction to the Brian Stack case.

The proof is in the pudding in the Mary Boyle thread, you did not condemn the alleged political corruption in covering up the case, your only postings in that thread made no condemnation of that so quit telling us you have done something over and over again which you haven't.

I am not a moral fraud, I only seek balance and your bias, double standards and numerous contradictions are more borne out with every post you make. Loads of injustices you have never addressed or seem to care about, yet look back through this thread and you constantly pop up on your moral crusades.

Show us the "loads of times" you have criticised FG, Labour and FF.

Tell us about your disgust at the probation sentence Michael Ring's brother received for pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl.

Tell us about your disgust at a government minister who refused to act on child abuse claims.

Because I haven't see any of these condemnations from you on here.

Bomber logic:

I haven't seen you condemn the murder of the Gibraltar 3. In fact the only McCann that you spoke about was Tiernan's hair.

I have condemned it. But you haven't, so therefore you must support it. You must be proud of yourself Bomber.

Moving on..

If a government minister refused to act on child abuse claims, then that is shocking. Right up there with the Catholic Church failing to do so. And Gerry Adams. I will condemn them all, if they are ever shown to have failed to protect a child.

But you won't.

My logic is that you a regular contributor on this thread expressing your disgust and outrage at Adams and the acts the IRA committed.

My logic is that this outrage does not extend to other disgraceful acts within Irish society, for instance, as you're a Mayo man. John Ring, brother of Michael Ring (FG government minister) got away with probation after attempting to rape a teenage girl who was alone in petrol shop. You'd have known about this I'm sure - yet not a dickie bird about your disgust on that. Why?

My logic states that you only express outrage and disgust when those in the firing line suit your agenda and when they don't you remain quiet and don't want to speak out.

This is the very first time I have ever heard of that claim.

But guess what, I will condemn it if it is true.

But you won't, when it involves Adams, SF or the IRA.

Double Standards. Do you understand the meaning of the words?

You never heard of that.

You're from Mayo and you never heard that the brother of a current Government Minister from Castlebar pleaded guilty to the attempted rape of a teenage girl?

See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. The curious case of your double standards just grows and grows.

Tell us why you think you never heard anything about it? Are you disgusted at the "justice" that was meted out there?

Why is that you never hear of these cases but are a regular contributor with your faux outrage in this thread?

Yes, I never heard of it until now.

I condemn all sexual abuse. But you won't.

You're losing more and more credibility by the second.

Why do you think you never heard about this? Why is there a pattern emerging here that all your outrage and disgust on here are at actions perpetrated on one side yet there is a complete lack of the same outrage and disgust at acts, injustices and cover-ups committed by establishment parties and those linked to him?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:23:02 PM
What cover up?

I seemed to miss the mention of a cover up in the article.

My missing that story is nothing in comparison to the amount of sexual abuse Gerry Adams seems to have missed. Including in his own family.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:23:02 PM
What cover up?

I seemed to miss the mention of a cover up in the article.

My missing that story is nothing in comparison to the amount of sexual abuse Gerry Adams seems to have missed. Including in his own family.

The cover up was in relation to general incidents you don't comment on unless the IRA or Adams are involved. You are not interested in those incidents that implicate the establishment parties in.

In this case there was a serious case of injustice, unless of course you think a probation sentence is an appropriate punishment. How do you think you didn't hear about this? You haven't addressed that, I am going to be very cynical and say you were well aware of it but it didn't suit your agenda so you it didn't require you to be outraged by it.

Do you think he would have got off with such a lenient sentence if he wasn't the brother of a government minister?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:37:15 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:23:02 PM
What cover up?

I seemed to miss the mention of a cover up in the article.

My missing that story is nothing in comparison to the amount of sexual abuse Gerry Adams seems to have missed. Including in his own family.

The cover up was in relation to general incidents you don't comment on unless the IRA or Adams are involved. You are not interested in those incidents that implicate the establishment parties in.

In this case there was a serious case of injustice, unless of course you think a probation sentence is an appropriate punishment. How do you think you didn't hear about this? You haven't addressed that, I am going to be very cynical and say you were well aware of it but it didn't suit your agenda so you it didn't require you to be outraged by it.

Do you think he would have got off with such a lenient sentence if he wasn't the brother of a government minister?

Any chance of a link? I have only read the article that I myself provided.

I have already condemned any sexual abuse, as described in the article. I note you have only condemned political opponents sexual abuse, but not SF/IRA sexual abuse.

As for a serious case of injustice, maybe. I'll wait for your proof.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:37:15 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:23:02 PM
What cover up?

I seemed to miss the mention of a cover up in the article.

My missing that story is nothing in comparison to the amount of sexual abuse Gerry Adams seems to have missed. Including in his own family.

The cover up was in relation to general incidents you don't comment on unless the IRA or Adams are involved. You are not interested in those incidents that implicate the establishment parties in.

In this case there was a serious case of injustice, unless of course you think a probation sentence is an appropriate punishment. How do you think you didn't hear about this? You haven't addressed that, I am going to be very cynical and say you were well aware of it but it didn't suit your agenda so you it didn't require you to be outraged by it.

Do you think he would have got off with such a lenient sentence if he wasn't the brother of a government minister?

Any chance of a link? I have only read the article that I myself provided.

I have already condemned any sexual abuse, as described in the article. I note you have only condemned political opponents sexual abuse, but not SF/IRA sexual abuse.

As for a serious case of injustice, maybe. I'll wait for your proof.

No condemnation forthcoming.

How did you not know this existed? I find it staggering and I have to say I believe you are being disingenuous about not knowing about this, the agenda just didn't suit you to express outrage about it.

The facts of the case are that the brother of the government minister got a probation sentence after pleading guilty to attempting to rape a teenage girl. You claim not to have known about this despite the fact the government minister is from Mayo - I find that impossible to take that as genuine.

The trend of you only choosing to state outrage on disgust at acts associated with the IRA and Adams is very obvious and you have offered nothing to suppress that.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2016, 10:10:53 PM
You can't even provide a link? You have alleged an attempted rape and a political cover up. Any link at all will do.

You then accuse me of lying because I hadn't heard it. 'It' being something you can't provide a link for. I have provided the only link on the subject and that was after only hearing about it from you.

You see I am not a party lackey like you. It is not my job to read every story about 'themmuns' or 'ussuns' all day.

I can happily condemn every sexual abuser from any party and every murderer from anywhere. But you can't if they are associated with your party. You can't think for yourself, speak for yourself or even post for yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 10:17:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 10:10:53 PM
You can't even provide a link? You have alleged an attempted rape and a political cover up. Any link at all will do.

You then accuse me of lying because I hadn't heard it. 'It' being something you can't provide a link for. I have provided the only link on the subject and that was after only hearing about it from you.

You see I am not a party lackey like you. It is not my job to read every story about 'themmuns' or 'ussuns' all day.

I can happily condemn every sexual abuser from any party and every murderer from anywhere. But you can't if they are associated with your party. You can't think for yourself, speak for yourself or even post for yourself.

I haven't alleged an attempted rape. John Ring pleaded guilty to it.

I haven't alleged a political cover up. I have alleged that the guilty party got an extremely lenient sentence with respect to the crime, I have put on record that I think his brother's position as Government Minister was the likely factor in that lenient sentence.

You seem to be very careful in gathering the facts and taking a very standoff stance in making comments and judgement on this case. A stark contrast to the way you wade in making comments and judgements in this thread. The double standards are glaringly evident, you seem to be making empty claims that you can't back up about talking out about other incidents.

Your claims that you never heard of this case, I find incredible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2016, 12:43:00 AM
Hopefully those pair have gone to bed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 11, 2016, 12:47:55 AM
Gerry Adam's still a twàt, though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 11, 2016, 12:51:43 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2016, 12:47:55 AM
Gerry Adam's still a twàt, though.

Gerry Adam's what? Amadán.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 02:09:42 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 10:17:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 10:10:53 PM
You can't even provide a link? You have alleged an attempted rape and a political cover up. Any link at all will do.

You then accuse me of lying because I hadn't heard it. 'It' being something you can't provide a link for. I have provided the only link on the subject and that was after only hearing about it from you.

You see I am not a party lackey like you. It is not my job to read every story about 'themmuns' or 'ussuns' all day.

I can happily condemn every sexual abuser from any party and every murderer from anywhere. But you can't if they are associated with your party. You can't think for yourself, speak for yourself or even post for yourself.

I haven't alleged an attempted rape. John Ring pleaded guilty to it.

I haven't alleged a political cover up. I have alleged that the guilty party got an extremely lenient sentence with respect to the crime, I have put on record that I think his brother's position as Government Minister was the likely factor in that lenient sentence.

You seem to be very careful in gathering the facts and taking a very standoff stance in making comments and judgement on this case. A stark contrast to the way you wade in making comments and judgements in this thread. The double standards are glaringly evident, you seem to be making empty claims that you can't back up about talking out about other incidents.

Your claims that you never heard of this case, I find incredible.

I can't find that anywhere. I found articles stating that he pleaded guilty to sexual assault. He wasn't even charged with 'attempted rape', let alone plead guilty to it.

I can see why you wouldn't post a link. But fact checking is important. You might avoid the expection of a sentence for a guilty plea, for a charge that wasn't even before the courts.


Regardless of your confusion though, sexually assaulting a 17 year old girl is despicable behaviour.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on December 11, 2016, 09:26:00 AM
Adams is a liability. But he has to stay in charge cos it is only place he is safe. I wonder will he die of natural causes .

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 10:18:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 02:09:42 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 10:17:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 10:10:53 PM
You can't even provide a link? You have alleged an attempted rape and a political cover up. Any link at all will do.

You then accuse me of lying because I hadn't heard it. 'It' being something you can't provide a link for. I have provided the only link on the subject and that was after only hearing about it from you.

You see I am not a party lackey like you. It is not my job to read every story about 'themmuns' or 'ussuns' all day.

I can happily condemn every sexual abuser from any party and every murderer from anywhere. But you can't if they are associated with your party. You can't think for yourself, speak for yourself or even post for yourself.

I haven't alleged an attempted rape. John Ring pleaded guilty to it.

I haven't alleged a political cover up. I have alleged that the guilty party got an extremely lenient sentence with respect to the crime, I have put on record that I think his brother's position as Government Minister was the likely factor in that lenient sentence.

You seem to be very careful in gathering the facts and taking a very standoff stance in making comments and judgement on this case. A stark contrast to the way you wade in making comments and judgements in this thread. The double standards are glaringly evident, you seem to be making empty claims that you can't back up about talking out about other incidents.

Your claims that you never heard of this case, I find incredible.

I can't find that anywhere. I found articles stating that he pleaded guilty to sexual assault. He wasn't even charged with 'attempted rape', let alone plead guilty to it.

I can see why you wouldn't post a link. But fact checking is important. You might avoid the expection of a sentence for a guilty plea, for a charge that wasn't even before the courts.


Regardless of your confusion though, sexually assaulting a 17 year old girl is despicable behaviour.

"Sexual assault takes many forms including attacks such as rape or attempted rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact or threats. Usually a sexual assault occurs when someone touches any part of another person's body in a sexual way, even through clothes, without that person's consent."

I think you need to look at what was reported.

Mr Fahy had earlier told the jury Ring asked the girl, who had just turned 17 and was alone in the shop, if she had a boyfriend and if she had a sore back.
He told her he was a physiotherapist and lured her to the back of the empty shop where he grabbed her with both hands around the neck.
The girl later told gardaí the accused kept a tight grip on her neck and was rough with her before putting his knee between her legs and telling her to spread them. She said he lifted up her shirt and could feel his groin against her.
A customer then entered the shop and Ring quickly left. He came back into the shop a short time later and stared at the girl but left as other customers came in.

He later followed the girl in his van as she walked home during her lunch break along a nearby narrow road. He blocked her way, let down the window and beckoned her to come over to him but she refused.


I find it odd and bizarre (I don't really as it's another case of your double standards) that you are being so cautious on making comments relating to this (rather than catch all statements which you don't do when it's Adams or the IRA involved) and trying to minimise the picture that has been reported. I find it very unlikely that you never heard of this when the person who pleaded guilty is the brother of a long serving, high profile TD and Government Minister from your county, I'm sure this would have been a massive local scandal.

Yet we didn't hear a dicky bird out of you and your subsequent condemnation has been half hearted and lacking in sincerity, funny that it just happens to follow the pattern you set when it comes to being outraged.

Why is your wording so different in this case, you condemn all cases you say but you have yet to explicitly come out and say you condemn this. You are happy to pontificate and moralise over active cases that you don't know the facts to, you just have a subjective view to what side of the story you want to believe. Yet in this case, where there has been a guilty plea and a conviction handed down, you are absolutely loathe to come out and say you are disgusted and outraged at the soft sentence issued to a brother of a FG minister from your home county.

This is damning on you and your credibility and it's a mere tip of the ice berg.

Countless times now, I have asked you to show your similar outrage at other incidents in Irish society, you have claimed you do but unsurprisingly you have failed to provide any evidence of this. In fact when a massive local scandal like above, you claim not to have heard of it (utter bullshit) and then you attempt to give disingenuous catch-all condemnations rather than express your disgust and outrage with the people involved in the incident themselves.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 11, 2016, 11:47:22 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:46:19 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

I note that you condemned Collins and Lemass for having 'blood on their hands'.

I never said anything different.

Of course I did point out that they were both Shinners. But you didn't seem to notice that either.

Post up your multiple condemnations and disgust at Collins and Lemass for us.

Collins is regarded as the founding father of Fine Gael, his hands were dripping with blood.
Lemass and DeValera were both leaders of FF, their hands were also dripping with blood.

Now you either have multiple posts with the same level of condemnation for Collins, De Valera, Lemass, FF and FG as you do for Sinn Fein or you don't?

The onus on you is to clear your name of these assertions, saying they exist when there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them is likely to be more lies from yourself.


The onus is on me?  ;D ;D ;D

Say that to Gerry Adams, or would your apply double standards as usual?


Yes Collins and Lemass had blood on their hands. I am in agreement with you. Collins in particular was a cold blooded killer.

But as usual you completely miss the point.

FF & FG formed from the blood of SF. I am completely in agreement with you. Collins and Lemass have blood on their hands. I am not disputing it. Never have. You seem to have some funny assumption about, along the usual Shinner lines, that I must worship Collins and Lemass, so thus I must worship the modern IRA. Well I don't worship any of them.

I am against all murderers. I know it is difficult for you to understand, because you are only outraged at the deaths of your own. You are desperately trying to invent double standards where there aren't any, so you can feel happy with your own double standards.

Now do you condemn all murders, or are some ok?

Yet it has to be dragged out of with regard Lemass and Collins, strange that.

I condemn whoever you want me to condemn, for the blood on their hands.

But you refuse to even negatively comment on the murders being discussed (except of course to shamefully blame the victim for his own death), never mind condemn them.

Yet you accuse me of double standards.  ;D ;D

I accuse you of double standards because certain ones have to be dragged out of you while other ones are repeated ad nauseaum.

Show me where you demanded justice for Fr Niall Molloy and Mary Boyle on here previous to today and I'll withdraw my remark.

I merely add balance to the debate, my job here is not to judge, it is to apply balance, it is to make sure that hypocrites like you are called to task and made apply your standards across the board, something that seems to be lacking on your part.

Have you ever voted FF or FG btw?
Your job?! You really are a bigger balloon than I thought you were and that takes some doing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 11, 2016, 11:47:22 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:46:19 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 05:17:12 PM
I have sought for you to clarify you objectivity, three times now you have evaded coming out and condemning Sean Lemass and Michael Collins for the blood they have on their hands.

I note that you condemned Collins and Lemass for having 'blood on their hands'.

I never said anything different.

Of course I did point out that they were both Shinners. But you didn't seem to notice that either.

Post up your multiple condemnations and disgust at Collins and Lemass for us.

Collins is regarded as the founding father of Fine Gael, his hands were dripping with blood.
Lemass and DeValera were both leaders of FF, their hands were also dripping with blood.

Now you either have multiple posts with the same level of condemnation for Collins, De Valera, Lemass, FF and FG as you do for Sinn Fein or you don't?

The onus on you is to clear your name of these assertions, saying they exist when there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them is likely to be more lies from yourself.


The onus is on me?  ;D ;D ;D

Say that to Gerry Adams, or would your apply double standards as usual?


Yes Collins and Lemass had blood on their hands. I am in agreement with you. Collins in particular was a cold blooded killer.

But as usual you completely miss the point.

FF & FG formed from the blood of SF. I am completely in agreement with you. Collins and Lemass have blood on their hands. I am not disputing it. Never have. You seem to have some funny assumption about, along the usual Shinner lines, that I must worship Collins and Lemass, so thus I must worship the modern IRA. Well I don't worship any of them.

I am against all murderers. I know it is difficult for you to understand, because you are only outraged at the deaths of your own. You are desperately trying to invent double standards where there aren't any, so you can feel happy with your own double standards.

Now do you condemn all murders, or are some ok?

Yet it has to be dragged out of with regard Lemass and Collins, strange that.

I condemn whoever you want me to condemn, for the blood on their hands.

But you refuse to even negatively comment on the murders being discussed (except of course to shamefully blame the victim for his own death), never mind condemn them.

Yet you accuse me of double standards.  ;D ;D

I accuse you of double standards because certain ones have to be dragged out of you while other ones are repeated ad nauseaum.

Show me where you demanded justice for Fr Niall Molloy and Mary Boyle on here previous to today and I'll withdraw my remark.

I merely add balance to the debate, my job here is not to judge, it is to apply balance, it is to make sure that hypocrites like you are called to task and made apply your standards across the board, something that seems to be lacking on your part.

Have you ever voted FF or FG btw?
Your job?! You really are a bigger balloon than I thought you were and that takes some doing.

I could respond in turn but you're too much of an insignificance to do so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2016, 12:16:06 PM
Time for the kids to call a half to the Muppet/Bomber show.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on December 11, 2016, 12:44:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2016, 12:16:06 PM
Time for the kids to call a half to the Muppet/Bomber show.


Take it away, Richie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSKJQ18ZoIA

Para bailar la Bomber
Para bailar la Bomber
Se necesita una poca de Throne complex
Una poca de disgracia pa mi pa ti
Y arriba y arriba
Ay arriba y arriba
Por Throne , por Sacar , por Gerry
Yo no soy Rugby fan
Yo no soy Rugby fan , soy Sacar man
Soy Thronie , soy Shinner

Bomber , Bomber
Bomber, Bomber, Bomber
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 01:45:17 PM
Bomber.

Attempted Rape is a top level crime with a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

Sexual assault is a level below that with a maximum sentence of 10 years.

You'd think with your outrage at the sentence handed out by the courts that you would check to see what sentence would apply to the charge.

As for your constant bringing up of historical cases that apparently were not condemned by me on this board, and pretending that this proves something, it really doesn't prove anything. As I said before, does your silence on the Gibraltar 3 prove you are a fan of the SAS? Hardly.

But then you have nowhere left to go in this argument. Do you? All that's left is whataboutery.

Bring up any case of murder, sexual assault, drug dealing and racketeering or whatever, and I will condemn it. You can't do that, just in case it involves one of your boys. That is the double standard.

So keep the cases coming.   :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 11, 2016, 02:37:47 PM
Again SF are very hypocritical on this issue. They rightly want justice for the likes of Pat Finucane and an end to the cover-up around his death but are more than happy to hush up the facts around Stacks murder which by Gerry's own admission there was an investigation about.

FF and FG are playing political football with the Stack issue alright but the Shinners do it all the time too so it's really fair game and they haven't much room to bitch about it. They live in the past all the time, demanding justice for the Gibraltar 4, Finucane and organising big hunger strike commerations etc. but as soon as an issue like this is raised its all about "moving forward/ not living in the past".

It's all about political expediency. It's political expedient to demand justice for Finucane in Northern Ireland and it's political expedient to try to ignore the Stack affair in the South.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:11:36 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 11, 2016, 02:37:47 PM
Again SF are very hypocritical on this issue. They rightly want justice for the likes of Pat Finucane and an end to the cover-up around his death but are more than happy to hush up the facts around Stacks murder which by Gerry's own admission there was an investigation about.

FF and FG are playing political football with the Stack issue alright but the Shinners do it all the time too so it's really fair game and they haven't much room to bitch about it. They live in the past all the time, demanding justice for the Gibraltar 4, Finucane and organising big hunger strike commerations etc. but as soon as an issue like this is raised its all about "moving forward/ not living in the past".

It's all about political expediency. It's political expedient to demand justice for Finucane in Northern Ireland and it's political expedient to try to ignore the Stack affair in the South.

Ideally we could sweep out the lot of them, FF, FG, SF, Labour etc, etc and start again. But the danger is the rise of far-right populists as we have seen elsewhere. In Ireland though we prefer to vote far-sh*ite populist independents when we are tired of the main parties, and that doesn't seem to be changing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 04:38:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 01:45:17 PM
Bomber.

Attempted Rape is a top level crime with a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

Sexual assault is a level below that with a maximum sentence of 10 years.

You'd think with your outrage at the sentence handed out by the courts that you would check to see what sentence would apply to the charge.

As for your constant bringing up of historical cases that apparently were not condemned by me on this board, and pretending that this proves something, it really doesn't prove anything. As I said before, does your silence on the Gibraltar 3 prove you are a fan of the SAS? Hardly.

But then you have nowhere left to go in this argument. Do you? All that's left is whataboutery.

Bring up any case of murder, sexual assault, drug dealing and racketeering or whatever, and I will condemn it. You can't do that, just in case it involves one of your boys. That is the double standard.

So keep the cases coming.   :D

I'd like to see you come out and show us the statue that backs up exactly what you said as toward attempted rape - it's plain for all to see that you claim is not really backed up with any facts.

Whataboutery is very important in the case of balance and it is one which you do not want to engage in, time and time again you have stressed you will condemn any horrible crime, time and time again I have requested you show us where you do this when the accused party is an establishment party or one with close links (plenty of examples about) and yet you have been unable to back up your claims.

I have you bang to rights on the Mary Boyle case, you waded in protesting caution of libel, you did not condemn it, you didn't hunt for the accussed - you asked for people to hold off - a direct contrast to how you like to convict in this thread - without all the facts or any concrete evidence.

I have you bang to rights on the John Ring case, you are hiding behind catch-all statements and dealing in semantics. You have not condemned John Ring or the shocking injustice that his awarding of a probationary sentence was. You claim you never heard the case happened (bullshit). You have dealt in disputing facts of the case (more bullshit), you have dealt in catch all statements rather than condemning John Ring and the state for allowing him get off with his attack.

It's one of many examples of where you have ignored an incident before the guilty party did not fit in with your agenda.

You don't like whataboutery and why would you when it exposes the shadowy morals and double standards that accompany you.

muppet - hard on killings carried out by republicans, soft on attempted rapes by his own county men with close links to FG.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 04:48:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 11, 2016, 02:37:47 PM
Again SF are very hypocritical on this issue. They rightly want justice for the likes of Pat Finucane and an end to the cover-up around his death but are more than happy to hush up the facts around Stacks murder which by Gerry's own admission there was an investigation about.

FF and FG are playing political football with the Stack issue alright but the Shinners do it all the time too so it's really fair game and they haven't much room to bitch about it. They live in the past all the time, demanding justice for the Gibraltar 4, Finucane and organising big hunger strike commerations etc. but as soon as an issue like this is raised its all about "moving forward/ not living in the past".

It's all about political expediency. It's political expedient to demand justice for Finucane in Northern Ireland and it's political expedient to try to ignore the Stack affair in the South.

And the hypocrisy fits the cap of FG, FF and Labour and free state media who are driving this hysteria.

The 26 county government have shown no ambition to bring about justice to all the families, they are more interested in cherrypicking certain cases to score political points and they do this to detriment of other families who are searching for answers.

Why aren't FG, FF, Labour and the media attacking the British establishment over their role in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? 34 people lost their lives from this and the British have been completely uncooperative in helping put closure on this.

Why have the establishment parties of the 26 refused to put in a place of system that would aid truth recovery in these cases?

There are far bigger answers to answer over Dublin Monaghan than there are the Brian Stack murder, yet the people driving the Brian Stack case have done nothing to help aid truth recovery regarding Dublin-Monaghan.

That is the great hypocrisy of it all.

The Free State - soft of British murder of Irish citizens, hard on IRA murders of prison officers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 04:38:33 PM
I'd like to see you come out and show us the statue that backs up exactly what you said as toward attempted rape - it's plain for all to see that you claim is not really backed up with any facts.

Oh dear. This is getting really, really embarrassing.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html)

Rape
The crime of rape may be charged under the Criminal Law (Rape) Act 1981 or the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990. The circumstances of the case, age of the victim and evidence will decide which legislation will apply.

The maximum penalty in Ireland for a rape offence is life imprisonment. There are related offences under the law of attempted rape, and separately of aiding and abetting a rape. (That is, assisting another person to commit a rape).

Sexual Assault/Aggravated sexual assault
Section 2 of the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990 sets out the law in Ireland on sexual assault. A sexual assault is an indecent assault on a male or a female. The maximum sentence is 10 years imprisonment or 14 years if the victim is aged under 17 years.

Aggravated sexual assault is sexual assault involving serious violence or the threat of serious violence. In common with rape offences, the maximum sentence for aggravated sexual assault is life imprisonment.


He pleaded guilty to Sexual Assault. You lied and said he pleaded guilty to attempted rape. And you continue to lie about the lie.

This took less than a minute to embarrass you. Keep them coming Bomber.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 11, 2016, 04:57:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 11, 2016, 09:26:00 AM
Adams is a liability. But he has to stay in charge cos it is only place he is safe. I wonder will he die of natural causes .

I see he's saying now he won't help solve murders he may have information on. The leader of a major political party, lads.

You can't write this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 05:03:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 04:38:33 PM
I'd like to see you come out and show us the statue that backs up exactly what you said as toward attempted rape - it's plain for all to see that you claim is not really backed up with any facts.

Oh dear. This is getting really, really embarrassing.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html)

Rape
The crime of rape may be charged under the Criminal Law (Rape) Act 1981 or the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990. The circumstances of the case, age of the victim and evidence will decide which legislation will apply.

The maximum penalty in Ireland for a rape offence is life imprisonment. There are related offences under the law of attempted rape, and separately of aiding and abetting a rape. (That is, assisting another person to commit a rape).

Sexual Assault/Aggravated sexual assault
Section 2 of the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990 sets out the law in Ireland on sexual assault. A sexual assault is an indecent assault on a male or a female. The maximum sentence is 10 years imprisonment or 14 years if the victim is aged under 17 years.

Aggravated sexual assault is sexual assault involving serious violence or the threat of serious violence. In common with rape offences, the maximum sentence for aggravated sexual assault is life imprisonment.


He pleaded guilty to Sexual Assault. You lied and said he pleaded guilty to attempted rape. And you continue to lie about the lie.

This took less than a minute to embarrass you. Keep them coming Bomber.  ;D

You have quite an imagination. Nowhere there does it say attempted rape carries a life imprisonment sentence, it actually states that there are different laws that deal with this.

And here you are again, refusing to condemn John Ring and defending him on semantics.

Muppet - soft on Mayo sex offenders - hard on Republican killings.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 05:04:13 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2016, 04:57:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 11, 2016, 09:26:00 AM
Adams is a liability. But he has to stay in charge cos it is only place he is safe. I wonder will he die of natural causes .

I see he's saying now he won't help solve murders he may have information on. The leader of a major political party, lads.

You can't write this.

Maybe Enda Kenny and Michael Martin will help out in uncovering the truth with Mary Boyle.

They probably won't though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Denn Forever on December 11, 2016, 05:09:51 PM
Aprose of nothing, this thread is spirally to places unknown.  It just reminded me of how dodgy things used to be, especially in the late 50s early 60s.

Neil Sedaka - Sweet Sixteen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CUfVm1Si8
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 05:03:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 04:38:33 PM
I'd like to see you come out and show us the statue that backs up exactly what you said as toward attempted rape - it's plain for all to see that you claim is not really backed up with any facts.

Oh dear. This is getting really, really embarrassing.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html)

Rape
The crime of rape may be charged under the Criminal Law (Rape) Act 1981 or the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990. The circumstances of the case, age of the victim and evidence will decide which legislation will apply.

The maximum penalty in Ireland for a rape offence is life imprisonment. There are related offences under the law of attempted rape, and separately of aiding and abetting a rape. (That is, assisting another person to commit a rape).

Sexual Assault/Aggravated sexual assault
Section 2 of the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990 sets out the law in Ireland on sexual assault. A sexual assault is an indecent assault on a male or a female. The maximum sentence is 10 years imprisonment or 14 years if the victim is aged under 17 years.

Aggravated sexual assault is sexual assault involving serious violence or the threat of serious violence. In common with rape offences, the maximum sentence for aggravated sexual assault is life imprisonment.


He pleaded guilty to Sexual Assault. You lied and said he pleaded guilty to attempted rape. And you continue to lie about the lie.

This took less than a minute to embarrass you. Keep them coming Bomber.  ;D

You have quite an imagination. Nowhere there does it say attempted rape carries a life imprisonment sentence, it actually states that there are different laws that deal with this.

And here you are again, refusing to condemn John Ring and defending him on semantics.

Muppet - soft on Mayo sex offenders - hard on Republican killings.

More embarrassment for the Bomber.

Firstly we are talking about MAXIMUM sentences.

Secondly, I provided the link and you didn't read it. So you assumed stuff and as usual, you were wrong.

You are the one who lied about the 'attempt rape' charge.

Here is what section 4 of the act says:

4.—(1) In this Act "rape under section 4 " means a sexual assault that includes—

(a) penetration (however slight) of the anus or mouth by the penis, or

(b) penetration (however slight) of the vagina by any object held or manipulated by another person.

(2) A person guilty of rape under section 4 shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.

(3) Rape under section 4 shall be a felony.



Keep them coming you fool.  ;D

As for condemning John Ring, I have done that over and over and you ignore it as usual, because you have to ignore Sinn Féin terrible failures in this area. I condemn all sexual abuse, whether it is any someone from Fine Gael, Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein.

All of this charade on this thread Bomber, is because you can't condemn some murders, some sexual abuse, some rapes, etc, etc, because of your double standards.

Shoot an unarmed Irishman, outrage, unless Sinn Fein 'know' about it. Then he is a legitimate target.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 05:27:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 05:03:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 04:38:33 PM
I'd like to see you come out and show us the statue that backs up exactly what you said as toward attempted rape - it's plain for all to see that you claim is not really backed up with any facts.

Oh dear. This is getting really, really embarrassing.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html)

Rape
The crime of rape may be charged under the Criminal Law (Rape) Act 1981 or the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990. The circumstances of the case, age of the victim and evidence will decide which legislation will apply.

The maximum penalty in Ireland for a rape offence is life imprisonment. There are related offences under the law of attempted rape, and separately of aiding and abetting a rape. (That is, assisting another person to commit a rape).

Sexual Assault/Aggravated sexual assault
Section 2 of the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990 sets out the law in Ireland on sexual assault. A sexual assault is an indecent assault on a male or a female. The maximum sentence is 10 years imprisonment or 14 years if the victim is aged under 17 years.

Aggravated sexual assault is sexual assault involving serious violence or the threat of serious violence. In common with rape offences, the maximum sentence for aggravated sexual assault is life imprisonment.


He pleaded guilty to Sexual Assault. You lied and said he pleaded guilty to attempted rape. And you continue to lie about the lie.

This took less than a minute to embarrass you. Keep them coming Bomber.  ;D

You have quite an imagination. Nowhere there does it say attempted rape carries a life imprisonment sentence, it actually states that there are different laws that deal with this.

And here you are again, refusing to condemn John Ring and defending him on semantics.

Muppet - soft on Mayo sex offenders - hard on Republican killings.

More embarrassment for the Bomber.

Firstly we are talking about MAXIMUM sentences.

Secondly, I provided the link and you didn't read it. So you assumed stuff and as usual, you were wrong.

You are the one who lied about the 'attempt rape' charge.

Here is what section 4 of the act says:

4.—(1) In this Act "rape under section 4 " means a sexual assault that includes—

(a) penetration (however slight) of the anus or mouth by the penis, or

(b) penetration (however slight) of the vagina by any object held or manipulated by another person.

(2) A person guilty of rape under section 4 shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.

(3) Rape under section 4 shall be a felony.



Keep them coming you fool.  ;D

As for condemning John Ring, I have done that over and over and you ignore it as usual, because you have to ignore Sinn Féin terrible failures in this area. I condone all sexual abuse, whether it is any someone from Fine Gael, Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein.

All of this charade on this thread Bomber, is because you can't condemn some murders, some sexual abuse, some rapes, etc, etc, because of your double standards.

Shoot an unarmed Irishman, outrage, unless Sinn Fein 'know' about it. Then he is a legitimate target.

Yeah, you said that the last time, it deals with rape and it's still every bit as irrelevant to your assertions that attempted rape carries a life sentence when that makes no correlation to that.

All of this charade is bringing out your double standards and selective outrage.

Still no condemnation of John Ring I see.

muppet - soft on Mayo sex offenders, hard on Republican killers.

Saying that you have done things which you have never done is more bare face lies from you. Show me a post where you condemned John Ring?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 05:33:46 PM
Do you understand this: 'penetration (however slight) by any object held or manipulated by another person'
and this: 'A person guilty of rape under section 4 shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.'

Full Rape is covered under a different section. Section 4 expands for 'however slight' and has a maximum sentence of life. Attempted rape could, depending on the case, easily fall under section 4.


Again, I have condemned Ring over an over again.

Once again, I condemn John Ring for his sexual assault.

Quote this post and say I didn't.......again.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

You cannot condemn sexual assault if it involves your own. That is the double standard you live by.

Keep them coming.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 05:36:12 PM
More embarrassment for the Bomber:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/32/enacted/en/print#sec1 (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/32/enacted/en/print#sec1)

'a rape offence' means any of the following, namely, rape, attempted rape, burglary with intent to commit rape, aiding, abetting, counselling and procuring rape, attempted rape or burglary with intent to commit rape, and incitement to rape and, other than in sections 2 (2) and 8 of this Act, rape under section 4 , attempted rape under section 4 , aiding, abetting, counselling and procuring rape under section 4 or attempted rape under section 4 and incitement to rape under section 4 ;
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 05:33:46 PM
Do you understand this: 'penetration (however slight) by any object held or manipulated by another person'
and this: 'A person guilty of rape under section 4 shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.'

Full Rape is covered under a different section. Section 4 expands for 'however slight' and has a maximum sentence of life. Attempted rape could, depending on the case, easily fall under section 4.


Again, I have condemned Ring over an over again.

Once again, I condemn John Ring for his sexual assault.

Quote this post and say I didn't.......again.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

You cannot condemn sexual assault if it involves your own. That is the double standard you live by.

Keep them coming.  ;D

That's the first time you have actually condemned him, so quit your fibbing about having previously done it.

The facade of smileys do not camouflage the conflicition of double standards you hide behind. You've had to be brought round in circles to come out and finally condemn actions of sex offenders in your own back yard:

a) you claimed to be unaware of them
b) you tried to hide behind catch all statements
c) you attempted to debate semantics on the charge

Finally after all these steps you eventually came out and condemned it along with a barrage of smileys and an incorrect statment that you had done it before.

This fits in with the pattern we see of you being at the forefront of any sort of  any sort of allegation with regard the IRA or Adams yet how you hope other scandals closer to home and that deal with establishment parties and their potential influence go without comment of outrage or disgust on at the time.

Do you think he got away with it? Do you think his probationary sentence was a shocking injustice?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 06:31:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:16:25 PM
Yes, I never heard of it until now.

I condemn all sexual abuse. But you won't.
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:37:15 PM
I have already condemned any sexual abuse, as described in the article. I note you have only condemned political opponents sexual abuse, but not SF/IRA sexual abuse.
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 10:10:53 PM
I can happily condemn every sexual abuser from any party and every murderer from anywhere. But you can't if they are associated with your party.
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 02:09:42 AM
Regardless of your confusion though, sexually assaulting a 17 year old girl is despicable behaviour.
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 01:45:17 PM
Bring up any case of murder, sexual assault, drug dealing and racketeering or whatever, and I will condemn it. You can't do that, just in case it involves one of your boys. That is the double standard.
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
As for condemning John Ring, I have done that over and over and you ignore it as usual, because you have to ignore Sinn Féin terrible failures in this area. I condemn all sexual abuse, whether it is any someone from Fine Gael, Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein.
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 05:33:46 PM
Again, I have condemned Ring over an over again.

Once again, I condemn John Ring for his sexual assault.

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
That's the first time you have actually condemned him, so quit your fibbing about having previously done it.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 06:36:29 PM
On a very serious note........to all sensible posters.

This post:

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 01:32:37 PM
You believe Brian Stack's murder had nothing to do with the violent beatings he was responsible for dishing out to republican prisoners?/

Not that it justifies it but it clearly wasn't an indiscriminate murder.

Is this information in the public domain?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 06:49:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 06:31:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:16:25 PM
Yes, I never heard of it until now.

I condemn all sexual abuse. But you won't.
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 09:37:15 PM
I have already condemned any sexual abuse, as described in the article. I note you have only condemned political opponents sexual abuse, but not SF/IRA sexual abuse.
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2016, 10:10:53 PM
I can happily condemn every sexual abuser from any party and every murderer from anywhere. But you can't if they are associated with your party.
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 02:09:42 AM
Regardless of your confusion though, sexually assaulting a 17 year old girl is despicable behaviour.
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 01:45:17 PM
Bring up any case of murder, sexual assault, drug dealing and racketeering or whatever, and I will condemn it. You can't do that, just in case it involves one of your boys. That is the double standard.
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
As for condemning John Ring, I have done that over and over and you ignore it as usual, because you have to ignore Sinn Féin terrible failures in this area. I condemn all sexual abuse, whether it is any someone from Fine Gael, Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein.
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 05:33:46 PM
Again, I have condemned Ring over an over again.

Once again, I condemn John Ring for his sexual assault.

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
That's the first time you have actually condemned him, so quit your fibbing about having previously done it.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Catch all statement, followed by a catch all statement, followed by a catch all statement, followed by another catch all statement, followed by a fifth catch all statement, then followed by an incorrect assertion you had already condemned John Ring, followed by another incorrect assertion you had condemned John Ring before finally at the 8th attempt eventually condemning John Ring.

It shouldn't have had to have been that hard for you to come out and condemn John Ring, yet it was and it was done in the mire of you trying to diminish the act that he committed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 07:10:27 PM
Do you understand what a 'catch all' statement is?  ;D ;D ;D
There are no caveats. It doesn't exclude anyone. Especially the abuse we have been talking about.  ;D ;D

Then you claimed I tried to diminish what he did. That never happened. You lied about the category of offence and I corrected you, while still condemning all sexual abuse.

The only way John Ring would be exempt from my condemnation in the above posts, would be if he hadn't done it. But, as stated in the link I posted, he admitted his guilt to a charge of sexual assault. I even added the line 'Regardless of your confusion though, sexually assaulting a 17 year old girl is despicable behaviour.'..... and yet still you think I was somehow not criticising him.

The mind truly boggles.




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 07:58:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 07:10:27 PM
Do you understand what a 'catch all' statement is?  ;D ;D ;D
There are no caveats. It doesn't exclude anyone. Especially the abuse we have been talking about.  ;D ;D

Then you claimed I tried to diminish what he did. That never happened. You lied about the category of offence and I corrected you, while still condemning all sexual abuse.

The only way John Ring would be exempt from my condemnation in the above posts, would be if he hadn't done it. But, as stated in the link I posted, he admitted his guilt to a charge of sexual assault. I even added the line 'Regardless of your confusion though, sexually assaulting a 17 year old girl is despicable behaviour.'..... and yet still you think I was somehow not criticising him.

The mind truly boggles.


You made catch all statements in order to avoid making specific reference to that case. A complete double standard in contrast to your incessant contributions to acts committed by the IRA and inferences made about Adams in this thread. Why has it taken you this long to speak out about John Ring?

Your card has been marked, you will now be held to them in the future.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 08:15:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 07:58:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 07:10:27 PM
Do you understand what a 'catch all' statement is?  ;D ;D ;D
There are no caveats. It doesn't exclude anyone. Especially the abuse we have been talking about.  ;D ;D

Then you claimed I tried to diminish what he did. That never happened. You lied about the category of offence and I corrected you, while still condemning all sexual abuse.

The only way John Ring would be exempt from my condemnation in the above posts, would be if he hadn't done it. But, as stated in the link I posted, he admitted his guilt to a charge of sexual assault. I even added the line 'Regardless of your confusion though, sexually assaulting a 17 year old girl is despicable behaviour.'..... and yet still you think I was somehow not criticising him.

The mind truly boggles.


You made catch all statements in order to avoid making specific reference to that case. A complete double standard in contrast to your incessant contributions to acts committed by the IRA and inferences made about Adams in this thread. Why has it taken you this long to speak out about John Ring?

Your card has been marked, you will now be held to them in the future.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/all (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/all)

Used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing

'All sexual abuse' does not exclude ANY sexual abuse cases. How hard can this be for you?

You have to make up the claim that I must have heard this before and am lying when I say I didn't.
You have to make up the claim that by condemning ALL SEXUAL ABUSE, I somehow wasn't condemning this one.


Y'know, I'm guessing you are not a real bomber.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 11:30:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 08:15:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 07:58:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 07:10:27 PM
Do you understand what a 'catch all' statement is?  ;D ;D ;D
There are no caveats. It doesn't exclude anyone. Especially the abuse we have been talking about.  ;D ;D

Then you claimed I tried to diminish what he did. That never happened. You lied about the category of offence and I corrected you, while still condemning all sexual abuse.

The only way John Ring would be exempt from my condemnation in the above posts, would be if he hadn't done it. But, as stated in the link I posted, he admitted his guilt to a charge of sexual assault. I even added the line 'Regardless of your confusion though, sexually assaulting a 17 year old girl is despicable behaviour.'..... and yet still you think I was somehow not criticising him.

The mind truly boggles.


You made catch all statements in order to avoid making specific reference to that case. A complete double standard in contrast to your incessant contributions to acts committed by the IRA and inferences made about Adams in this thread. Why has it taken you this long to speak out about John Ring?

Your card has been marked, you will now be held to them in the future.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/all (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/all)

Used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing

'All sexual abuse' does not exclude ANY sexual abuse cases. How hard can this be for you?

You have to make up the claim that I must have heard this before and am lying when I say I didn't.
You have to make up the claim that by condemning ALL SEXUAL ABUSE, I somehow wasn't condemning this one.


Y'know, I'm guessing you are not a real bomber.  ;D

I said you used catch all statements five times when asked to comment on an individual case - a bizarre response from yourself. I didn't ask you to comment on all cases, I asked you to comment on a specific case you had never discussed before and you felt the need to bring in every case in that regard.

The reality of this matter is the particular case I referred to was carried out by a man from your county who happened to be the brother of a government minister and there wasn't a dicky bird out of you about it?

A blatant double standard, just like how you contributed to the Mary Boyle case but refused to comment on the alleged role of an active establishment party member is thwarting justice.

These are things that you can't change and your card has been marked.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 11:35:52 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 11:30:54 PM
I said you used catch all statements five times when asked to comment on an individual case - a bizarre response from yourself. I didn't ask you to comment on all cases, I asked you to comment on a specific case you had never discussed before and you felt the need to bring in every case in that regard.

It isn't bizarre. It is completely consistent. It is not only condemning what you asked me to condemn, it is condemning everyone else who ever did the same thing. It condemns them all. It is the absolute opposite of double standards. But you are too stupid to understand this. And thus, incredibly, you accuse me of double standards. It is so ridiculous an argument that I can't stop laughing thinking about it.  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on December 11, 2016, 11:48:02 PM
Il Bomber Destro(yed by Muppet)

Ye may stick till the rugby lad
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 11:58:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 11:35:52 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 11, 2016, 11:30:54 PM
I said you used catch all statements five times when asked to comment on an individual case - a bizarre response from yourself. I didn't ask you to comment on all cases, I asked you to comment on a specific case you had never discussed before and you felt the need to bring in every case in that regard.

It isn't bizarre. It is completely consistent. It is not only condemning what you asked me to condemn, it is condemning everyone else who ever did the same thing. It condemns them all. It is the absolute opposite of double standards. But you are too stupid to understand this. And thus, incredibly, you accuse me of double standards. It is so ridiculous an argument that I can't stop laughing thinking about it.  ;D ;D ;D

It is bizarrre.

On one hand you pursue incidents with the IRA and Adams and express your outrage and disgust at specific incidents very frequently going by your input in this thread.

On the other hand, you ignore incidents with links to establishment parties, refuse to make comments on them until cornered into, then proceed to make catchall statements rather than address the issue you have been asked to apply your standards too.

Why did we not hear a dicky bird out of you in the Mary Boyle thread regarding your outrage and disgust? You posted on the thread but you made no judgement, instead you proffered libel. Libel hasn't stopped you making unsubstantiated claims against Gerry Adams. Libel seems to be yet another double standard of your, a nice accompaniment to your double standards of outrage and disgusts. With John Ring you dealt in catchall statements and not specific reference to that case, you also looked to delve into the world of semantics, neither come into the equation with Adams and the IRA .

It's bizarre when it's stacked up with your protestations.

The facade of smileys don't hide your inability to explain this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on December 12, 2016, 12:14:45 AM
Does Adams know the damage he is doing to the party by hanging around? He should have stepped down over 5-6 years ago.

What is he waiting on?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: maigheo on December 12, 2016, 12:18:11 AM
Bomber give it up.You are going around in circles and you had lost this argument about 3 pages ago.I am from Mayo ,tho living outside the county and had never heard of the Ring case until now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2016, 12:20:57 AM
I have explained this. Over and over again as I have demonstrated over and over again.

I have condemned all murders and all sexual abuse.

You can't do the same, so you are trapped in your own sad circular logic.  ;D

Furthermore, you are also guilty of reductio ad absurdum because you pretend that if I haven't condemned every murder, then I can't condemn any.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 12, 2016, 12:25:02 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2016, 12:20:57 AM
I have explained this. Over and over again as I have demonstrated over and over again.

I have condemned all murders and all sexual abuse.

You can't do the same, so you are trapped in your own sad circular logic.  ;D

Furthermore, you are also guilty of reductio ad absurdum because you pretend that if I haven't condemned every murder, then I can't condemn any.
Those big rugby lads have given him a bit of a complex.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on December 12, 2016, 01:24:07 AM
Bomber may have lost the logical argument but he achieved his goal expertly - it must be 5-6 pages since the issue at hand was mentioned
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2016, 10:20:05 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2016, 01:24:07 AM
Bomber may have lost the logical argument but he achieved his goal expertly - it must be 5-6 pages since the issue at hand was mentioned

You mean the shooting of an unarmed innocent Irishman from behind?

This is from the previous page:

Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 06:36:29 PM
On a very serious note........to all sensible posters.

This post:

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 01:32:37 PM
You believe Brian Stack's murder had nothing to do with the violent beatings he was responsible for dishing out to republican prisoners?/

Not that it justifies it but it clearly wasn't an indiscriminate murder.

Is this information in the public domain?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on December 12, 2016, 01:45:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2016, 10:20:05 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2016, 01:24:07 AM
Bomber may have lost the logical argument but he achieved his goal expertly - it must be 5-6 pages since the issue at hand was mentioned

You mean the shooting of an unarmed innocent Irishman from behind?

This is from the previous page:

Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 06:36:29 PM
On a very serious note........to all sensible posters.

This post:

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 10, 2016, 01:32:37 PM
You believe Brian Stack's murder had nothing to do with the violent beatings he was responsible for dishing out to republican prisoners?/

Not that it justifies it but it clearly wasn't an indiscriminate murder.

Is this information in the public domain?

Which nobody replied to because most people have stopped reading. Objective achieved on his part.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2016, 02:35:10 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/who-was-brian-stack-and-why-is-his-killing-back-in-the-news-again-1.2897750 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/who-was-brian-stack-and-why-is-his-killing-back-in-the-news-again-1.2897750)

Who was responsible for the attack?

The IRA had always denied it was behind the killing. However, in 2013 the group acknowledged in a statement to the Stack family that it had in fact been responsible for the murder, which it said was not sanctioned by the leadership.

"In Portlaoise a brutal prison regime saw prisoners and their families suffer greatly. This is the context in which IRA volunteers shot your father," the statement said. The group said the member who ordered the killing had been disciplined but did not specify the nature of the sanction.


30 years of lies. Then they mention that there had been some sort of disciplinary process. But of course there are no details.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 12, 2016, 02:49:18 PM
Muppet - keep on broadcasting whatever the Irish Independent and similar media outlets tell you. I love seeing you pass them off as your own opinion  ;)

I feel so informed afterwards

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2016, 03:03:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 12, 2016, 02:49:18 PM
Muppet - keep on broadcasting whatever the Irish Independent and similar media outlets tell you. I love seeing you pass them off as your own opinion  ;)

I feel so informed afterwards


There is a link, which you might have missed and, hilariously, that is an IRA statement.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on December 12, 2016, 03:28:06 PM
Had a read of a few articles online about this case, as I wasn't familiar with ins and outs.

One thing that it is amazing the online army that flood the Indo, politics.ie, The Journal when a Sinn Féin article comes up.  A very well disciplined and on-message crowd:

1) Used a scatter gun whataboutery to call people hypocritical
2) Ask about the "old" ira
3) Label people West Brits
4) Claim that the victim/accuser is being manipulated.
5) Claim that we are all "tired" of this story

I have to say it is an effective strategy.
/Jim
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2016, 03:33:58 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on December 12, 2016, 03:28:06 PM
Had a read of a few articles online about this case, as I wasn't familiar with ins and outs.

One thing that it is amazing the online army that flood the Indo, politics.ie, The Journal when a Sinn Féin article comes up.  A very well disciplined and on-message crowd:

1) Used a scatter gun whataboutery to call people hypocritical
2) Ask about the "old" ira
3) Label people West Brits
4) Claim that the victim/accuser is being manipulated.
5) Claim that we are all "tired" of this story

I have to say it is an effective strategy.
/Jim

Your observations are correct.

But I disagree with the last bit. It isn't effective in my opinion. As a party they should be trying to increase their vote. Given the collapse of FF in 2011 and the very unpopular government that followed, they have failed utterly to threaten the awful duopoly, when it should have been very easy. Part of the reason is the legacy issues and the very obvious organised reactions you have outlined.

Where will the new votes come from, if they always attack anyone who ever asks any questions?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2016, 03:54:26 PM
The pay for nothing brigade that they cultivate don't turn out to vote in big numbers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 12, 2016, 04:04:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2016, 03:03:05 PM
There is a link, which you might have missed and, hilariously, that is an IRA statement.  ;D ;D ;D

You are so hilarious.

Keep re-broadcasting. I wait for your every wisdom-filled post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2016, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 12, 2016, 04:04:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2016, 03:03:05 PM
There is a link, which you might have missed and, hilariously, that is an IRA statement.  ;D ;D ;D

You are so hilarious.

Keep re-broadcasting. I wait for your every wisdom-filled post.

I absolutely know you do.

Then you claim that it isn't my own opinion. And you follow the template outlined by /Jim. Every time.

There used to be much better Shinnerbots though. Where are they all gone?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2016, 05:03:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2016, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 12, 2016, 04:04:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2016, 03:03:05 PM
There is a link, which you might have missed and, hilariously, that is an IRA statement.  ;D ;D ;D

You are so hilarious.

Keep re-broadcasting. I wait for your every wisdom-filled post.

I absolutely know you do.

Then you claim that it isn't my own opinion. And you follow the template outlined by /Jim. Every time.

There used to be much better Shinnerbots though. Where are they all gone?

Probably saw through the shite they were respouting.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 12, 2016, 07:17:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2016, 12:20:57 AM
I have explained this. Over and over again as I have demonstrated over and over again.

I have condemned all murders and all sexual abuse.

You can't do the same, so you are trapped in your own sad circular logic.  ;D

Furthermore, you are also guilty of reductio ad absurdum because you pretend that if I haven't condemned every murder, then I can't condemn any.

Circular logic that lands at the same conclusion that your double standards are there for everyone to see.

Your stance on John Ring - no voluntary condemnation, feigned ignorance, catch all statements and semantics in response to being harangued into condemning this incident, no comment on whether the verdicts was a grave injustice, false claims that you had already condemned ring, eventually culminating in a condemnation at the 9th time of asking.

Your stance on Mary Boyle - no condemnation, a pleading for people to relax on making comments on the case in case of libel as we don't know the full story.

Your stance on Adams and the IRA - we don't need no evidence, hang them and hang them high.

I have proven what I set out to and your weak responses dipped in a barrel of false smileys can't change the picture I have painted.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 14, 2016, 01:13:32 PM
As we hear the sound of another frezied (free state) morality crusade fizzling into the dustbin of degradation, el duce Mad Martin suffered even more ignominy after being upstaged by the simple (pint of bass) sagacity from a ghost of christmas past, Bertie Aherne. Overall, Martin was made to appear like a witless despot desperate to try anything to get into power and fulfill his destiny.
How he must have put so much faith into his populist masterplan, that the authorities should arrest and interrogate anybody who discreetly comes forward to assist the bereaved in some manner with information. Get the families to promise them total secrecy, then nab them. In no time hundreds of them will be in jail. Or so Martin thought, that old republicans would come forward in droves like lemmings to answer a plea for information from the bereaved  and get themselves nabbed in the process.
But I suspect rationality isn't much of a factor in Martin's thought process, that if you apply the Mad Martin's  principle of arrest and interrogation in the Stack case then it has effects for all bereaved and all future resolution processes.
The culpability of a State after decades of terror is infinitely much greater than the culpability of the various factions. When the state tortures, murders and foments murder gangs, it does it in your name, your law. 
It is the duty of the state to facilitate reconciliation not to proportion blame and abscond responsibility.

What will Martin do no now as yet another attack on Sinn Fein  barely rattles Gerry's rosary beads.
How about another attack ;D  that's about the sum of the desperado's strategic imagination.
He can't rail against the EU that would be political suicide and travellers are now a protected ethnic group. How about migrants? have a lash of hate against migrants, multi  skin coloured  leeches  taking our jobs, our hospital trollies?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2016, 01:19:10 PM
Panadol.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:23:10 PM
I hope Micheal and Enda got value for money with the cheap shots. The stack affair probably has finished any chance of people coming forward with information on historic events.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on December 14, 2016, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:23:10 PM
I hope Micheal and Enda got value for money with the cheap shots. The stack affair probably has finished any chance of people coming forward with information on historic events.


Yes, it's everyone else that's at fault here. The Shinners are surely very upset at the thoughts of the truth not being uncovered...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:33:30 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 14, 2016, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:23:10 PM
I hope Micheal and Enda got value for money with the cheap shots. The stack affair probably has finished any chance of people coming forward with information on historic events.


Yes, it's everyone else that's at fault here. The Shinners are surely very upset at the thoughts of the truth not being uncovered...

That being the case I don't think they'd have facilitated the stack family initially, no?

FG/FF don't give a monkeys about the truth. They certainly had their eyes closed for a long time in relation to the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: oakleaflad on January 23, 2017, 03:06:03 PM
Michelle O'Neill is the new leader in the North
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 23, 2017, 03:09:16 PM
This wont end well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 23, 2017, 03:15:11 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 23, 2017, 03:09:16 PM
This wont end well.

Why do you think that ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on January 23, 2017, 03:17:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 23, 2017, 03:15:11 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 23, 2017, 03:09:16 PM
This wont end well.

Why do you think that ?

Beat me to it Minder
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 23, 2017, 03:28:53 PM
Just have a gut feeling about it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Take Your Points on January 23, 2017, 05:42:24 PM
From the DUP:

https://twitter.com/duponline/status/823532942139985922 (https://twitter.com/duponline/status/823532942139985922)

Copied from the UK election poster by Torys of Milliband in Salmond's pocket.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 23, 2017, 06:59:47 PM
Let's hope S O'Neill does not go the same way as her 17th century ancestor Phelim and take an English knighthood.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2017, 07:30:43 PM
It is interesting to have an Ó Neill from Throne running the Shinners and representing the natives in Ulster 400 years or so after the plantation.  Which was really f**king stupid. I wonder how much it has ended up costing England.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 5 Sams on January 23, 2017, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: oakleaflad on January 23, 2017, 03:06:03 PM
Michelle O'Neill is the new leader in the North

Anyone in the know know how this works....does the SF MLAs/Councillors or whatever elect the new leader in the north. I'd say Conor Murphy must be a wee bit miffed.....does he have to bite the tongue and let a woman take the reins to let SF tick another equality box???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 23, 2017, 11:17:29 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on January 23, 2017, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: oakleaflad on January 23, 2017, 03:06:03 PM
Michelle O'Neill is the new leader in the North

Anyone in the know know how this works....does the SF MLAs/Councillors or whatever elect the new leader in the north. I'd say Conor Murphy must be a wee bit miffed.....does he have to bite the tongue and let a woman take the reins to let SF tick another equality box???

He's on UTV now, and it looks like he is biting both his lips. Oh wait..., hang on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on January 23, 2017, 11:19:46 PM
QuoteAnyone in the know know how this works....does the SF MLAs/Councillors or whatever elect the new leader in the north. I'd say Conor Murphy must be a wee bit miffed.....does he have to bite the tongue and let a woman take the reins to let SF tick another equality box???

I'd say so ... had expected him to get the nod, but there must be another agenda to putting M. O'Neill into the position.  Good luck to Michelle, no one can replace Martin McGuinness, so no point in trying to.  It will be a long time before another assembly is up and running.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macdanger2 on January 23, 2017, 11:38:01 PM
Jaysus, that was quick - was she elected or is it an appointed job?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 24, 2017, 02:24:45 AM
Really strange choice. Not sure she'll have the ability to debate things with the likes of Naoimi Long or Arlene Foster but hopefully I'm wrong. Murphy has much more ability in my opinion but s perhaps too hard line. Michelle Gildernew would have been a better choice if it was a gender thing.  If ut was a gender based decision then it would suggest Mary Lou won't be Adams' replacement. In other news, SDLP youth policy continues with news that hot on the heels of Dolores Kelly, the youthful John Dallat has come out of retirement to contest East Derry
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 24, 2017, 10:01:59 AM
We need to bear in mind that this appointment, which is what it was is similar to the appointment of any other ministry. To my knowledge the elected leadership of SF is Mary Lou, Gerry as president and vice president. Michelle O'Neill is a strategic appointment by SF and Conor Murphy will remain influential and don't rule him out as a potential VP or P in future. SF do collective leadership. The advantages in the north of MON are that the take away the IRA bogeyman hence trying to show that she is Gerry's puppet. That said she is a strong performer and charismatic (even though she's a cuddy from the bushes). I'd expect Conor to be front and centre and a prime negotiator.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Take Your Points on January 24, 2017, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2017, 11:38:01 PM
Jaysus, that was quick - was she elected or is it an appointed job?

SF doesn't do vote. it was an anointment. A slap in the teeth for Murphy and those who paid their dues.  Adams is all over it and she is a total party loyalist.  The loss of McGuinness is becoming more apparent each day.  O'Neill is the SF mirror of Arlene, she has a slight edge on the competence stakes given RHI.  She has shown the same contempt to MLAs for any challenge to her ministry as Arlene has shown for challenge to her.  Doesn't bode well for the future and the development of a stable government needed to deliver health and education for the people that have been delivered over the last 10 years.

Instead of direct rule during a period of SF abstentionism from the assembly, powers should be further devolved to the 11 super councils that have shown they can work.  No need for a ministry of communities at any time when we have these councils.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 24, 2017, 10:51:06 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 24, 2017, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2017, 11:38:01 PM
Jaysus, that was quick - was she elected or is it an appointed job?

SF doesn't do vote. it was an anointment. A slap in the teeth for Murphy and those who paid their dues.  Adams is all over it and she is a total party loyalist.  The loss of McGuinness is becoming more apparent each day.  O'Neill is the SF mirror of Arlene, she has a slight edge on the competence stakes given RHI.  She has shown the same contempt to MLAs for any challenge to her ministry as Arlene has shown for challenge to her.  Doesn't bode well for the future and the development of a stable government needed to deliver health and education for the people that have been delivered over the last 10 years.

Instead of direct rule during a period of SF abstentionism from the assembly, powers should be further devolved to the 11 super councils that have shown they can work.  No need for a ministry of communities at any time when we have these councils.

If SF had installed the Dalai Lama as leader in the north you'd have had an issue with it.  As an old uncle of mine used to say... nobody listens to the dog that barks all day...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 24, 2017, 10:56:40 AM
Will the DUP dominated super Councils indulge in parity of esteem?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on January 24, 2017, 11:14:21 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 24, 2017, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2017, 11:38:01 PM
Jaysus, that was quick - was she elected or is it an appointed job?

SF doesn't do vote. it was an anointment. A slap in the teeth for Murphy and those who paid their dues.  Adams is all over it and she is a total party loyalist.  The loss of McGuinness is becoming more apparent each day.  O'Neill is the SF mirror of Arlene, she has a slight edge on the competence stakes given RHI.  She has shown the same contempt to MLAs for any challenge to her ministry as Arlene has shown for challenge to her.  Doesn't bode well for the future and the development of a stable government needed to deliver health and education for the people that have been delivered over the last 10 years.

Instead of direct rule during a period of SF abstentionism from the assembly, powers should be further devolved to the 11 super councils that have shown they can work.  No need for a ministry of communities at any time when we have these councils.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 24, 2017, 12:28:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 24, 2017, 10:56:40 AM
Will the DUP dominated super Councils indulge in parity of esteem?
The DUP don't do parity of esteem, thats why we are where we are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Take Your Points on January 24, 2017, 01:57:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 24, 2017, 10:51:06 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 24, 2017, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2017, 11:38:01 PM
Jaysus, that was quick - was she elected or is it an appointed job?

SF doesn't do vote. it was an anointment. A slap in the teeth for Murphy and those who paid their dues.  Adams is all over it and she is a total party loyalist.  The loss of McGuinness is becoming more apparent each day.  O'Neill is the SF mirror of Arlene, she has a slight edge on the competence stakes given RHI.  She has shown the same contempt to MLAs for any challenge to her ministry as Arlene has shown for challenge to her.  Doesn't bode well for the future and the development of a stable government needed to deliver health and education for the people that have been delivered over the last 10 years.

Instead of direct rule during a period of SF abstentionism from the assembly, powers should be further devolved to the 11 super councils that have shown they can work.  No need for a ministry of communities at any time when we have these councils.

If SF had installed the Dalai Lama as leader in the north you'd have had an issue with it.  As an old uncle of mine used to say... nobody listens to the dog that barks all day...

Mind you, it would appear that you continue to read/follow what I have to say so it must be having some effect.

Even through your own arrogance you might one day see that a person's opinion is as valid as another regardless of how often they may wish to express it especially when it doesn't agree with your own world view.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Take Your Points on January 24, 2017, 02:00:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 24, 2017, 10:56:40 AM
Will the DUP dominated super Councils indulge in parity of esteem?

Probably as much as those dominated by other parties.  DUP has no monopoly on denying a parity of esteem in this country just as SF has no monopoly on demanding equality or the Irish language.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 24, 2017, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 24, 2017, 02:00:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 24, 2017, 10:56:40 AM
Will the DUP dominated super Councils indulge in parity of esteem?

Probably as much as those dominated by other parties.  DUP has no monopoly on denying a parity of esteem in this country just as SF has no monopoly on demanding equality or the Irish language.
Not the case if you look at the activities of nationalist controlled councils over the years as opposed to those dominated by unionists you will see that the minority unionist population in those areas were reasonably well catered for. Compare that with the antics of the old Craigavon council or the newer Causeway Coast and Glens one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 24, 2017, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 24, 2017, 01:57:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 24, 2017, 10:51:06 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 24, 2017, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2017, 11:38:01 PM
Jaysus, that was quick - was she elected or is it an appointed job?

SF doesn't do vote. it was an anointment. A slap in the teeth for Murphy and those who paid their dues.  Adams is all over it and she is a total party loyalist.  The loss of McGuinness is becoming more apparent each day.  O'Neill is the SF mirror of Arlene, she has a slight edge on the competence stakes given RHI.  She has shown the same contempt to MLAs for any challenge to her ministry as Arlene has shown for challenge to her.  Doesn't bode well for the future and the development of a stable government needed to deliver health and education for the people that have been delivered over the last 10 years.

Instead of direct rule during a period of SF abstentionism from the assembly, powers should be further devolved to the 11 super councils that have shown they can work.  No need for a ministry of communities at any time when we have these councils.

If SF had installed the Dalai Lama as leader in the north you'd have had an issue with it.  As an old uncle of mine used to say... nobody listens to the dog that barks all day...

Mind you, it would appear that you continue to read/follow what I have to say so it must be having some effect.

Even through your own arrogance you might one day see that a person's opinion is as valid as another regardless of how often they may wish to express it especially when it doesn't agree with your own world view.

There's no arrogance here.  Merely pointing out that if you are found to have a negative opinion of each and every move that SF make, you may have an issue with other people lending much weight to that opinion.  Some might be prone to thinking that you have another agenda.

You are the polar opposite to the 'shinnerbots' that you once mentioned.  You're still a 'bot' though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 01, 2017, 07:46:55 PM
So Michelle O'Neill wants special status for NI in the EU. Pro partition much?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2017, 07:58:42 PM
Arlene's approval rating  is 29%. Les Shinners are neck and neck with the DUP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 01, 2017, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 01, 2017, 07:46:55 PM
So Michelle O'Neill wants special status for NI in the EU. Pro partition much?

I think it fair to say that she is pro partition of the UK.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on February 01, 2017, 09:57:06 PM
Had Gerry Kelly on my doorstep tonight. Made sure he got the message about gagging Gerry Adams.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SuperMac on February 03, 2017, 03:36:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 01, 2017, 07:46:55 PM
So Michelle O'Neill wants special status for NI in the EU. Pro partition much?
She wants to prevent a hard border and maintain as much links to the south etc, complete opposite of partitionism Einstein.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SuperMac on February 03, 2017, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 01, 2017, 09:57:06 PM
Had Gerry Kelly on my doorstep tonight. Made sure he got the message about gagging Gerry Adams.
What's that Orior , to keep Adams from tripping over himself and getting muddled up with facts and figures etc like he did in the Sean O'Rourke show during the Dail election, his n!gger Tweets etc ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 03, 2017, 05:21:01 PM
Quote from: SuperMac on February 03, 2017, 03:36:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 01, 2017, 07:46:55 PM
So Michelle O'Neill wants special status for NI in the EU. Pro partition much?
She wants to prevent a hard border and maintain as much links to the south etc, complete opposite of partitionism Einstein.

Effectively saying NI should remain in the UK though, as in maintaining the status quo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 03, 2017, 05:24:44 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 03, 2017, 05:21:01 PM
Quote from: SuperMac on February 03, 2017, 03:36:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 01, 2017, 07:46:55 PM
So Michelle O'Neill wants special status for NI in the EU. Pro partition much?
She wants to prevent a hard border and maintain as much links to the south etc, complete opposite of partitionism Einstein.

Effectively saying NI should remain in the UK though, as in maintaining the status quo.

SF have agreed that NI will not leave until there is a majority in a referendum, and they do not believe such a majority currently exists. Nothing notable about that. In fact, demanding something reasonable like special status could increase prospect of successful border poll if the British do not allow it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 04, 2017, 12:20:20 PM
I think SF have shown in the last few weeks that they are not a too left party. They have adopted a common sense approach to the US pre clearance facility at the Irish airports and to the St. Patricks Day visit to the White House whereas Rich Boy and Posh Boy have resorted to typical anti USA attitude. SF realise now that the lefty shite might go down well in Dublin SC but the rural vote in Tyrone Fermanagh Armagh like to hold on to their hard earned money. The anti Brexit parties north and south have no choice when it comes to the hard border. If Britain goes ahead there will have to be a customs control and the checkpoints will be back. None of the parties, including Sinn Fein, are making any good economic case for a United Ireland. I know Matt Carthy SF MEP has attempted to put it on the agenda but the stomach doesnt appear to be there among any of the parties. I cant see any great change in the assembly as the tribes stick to their own. However neither have many friends in Whitehall or the White House now so its up to ourselves to start a bit of grownup politics
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 12:52:11 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 04, 2017, 12:20:20 PM
I think SF have shown in the last few weeks that they are not a too left party. They have adopted a common sense approach to the US pre clearance facility at the Irish airports and to the St. Patricks Day visit to the White House whereas Rich Boy and Posh Boy have resorted to typical anti USA attitude. SF realise now that the lefty shite might go down well in Dublin SC but the rural vote in Tyrone Fermanagh Armagh like to hold on to their hard earned money. The anti Brexit parties north and south have no choice when it comes to the hard border. If Britain goes ahead there will have to be a customs control and the checkpoints will be back. None of the parties, including Sinn Fein, are making any good economic case for a United Ireland. I know Matt Carthy SF MEP has attempted to put it on the agenda but the stomach doesnt appear to be there among any of the parties. I cant see any great change in the assembly as the tribes stick to their own. However neither have many friends in Whitehall or the White House now so its up to ourselves to start a bit of grownup politics
It's too early for voters to understand the damage Brexit will do. The UK is run by a deluded cabal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 04, 2017, 01:02:23 PM
Who are Rich boy and Posh boy??
Murphy and Boyd Barrett?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 04, 2017, 01:38:51 PM
Things are evolving all the time. A border poll is not going to fly, but there is a possibility that discussion of one with some prospect of a substantial vote for unity might light a sufficient fire under the unionists that special treatment of NI within Brexit might seem the lesser of two evils. It is a very tricky situation politically. A good turnout of non unionist voters in March would help.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 04, 2017, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2017, 01:38:51 PM
Things are evolving all the time. A border poll is not going to fly, but there is a possibility that discussion of one with some prospect of a substantial vote for unity might light a sufficient fire under the unionists that special treatment of NI within Brexit might seem the lesser of two evils. It is a very tricky situation politically. A good turnout of non unionist voters in March would help.

Fair enough, we'll have to wait and see if that could happen. The EU themselves will have more of a say than the Dublin government I feel.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 04, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
Anybody voting for PBP need to look at their Brexit stance, for before and protest after. Ludicrous!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 04, 2017, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 04, 2017, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2017, 01:38:51 PM
Things are evolving all the time. A border poll is not going to fly, but there is a possibility that discussion of one with some prospect of a substantial vote for unity might light a sufficient fire under the unionists that special treatment of NI within Brexit might seem the lesser of two evils. It is a very tricky situation politically. A good turnout of non unionist voters in March would help.

Fair enough, we'll have to wait and see if that could happen. The EU themselves will have more of a say than the Dublin government I feel.

The EU may well want to screw Britain, but are willing to make arrangements re NI, if only the British can be persuaded to ask for them. Business and society in NI needs to ramp up the pressure.

Quote from: Applesisapples on February 04, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
Anybody voting for PBP need to look at their Brexit stance, for before and protest after. Ludicrous!

The PBP are a disgrace. And being stuck in a non EU UK run by the Tories will not lead to any benefits for Derry or West Belfast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on February 04, 2017, 09:23:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2017, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 04, 2017, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2017, 01:38:51 PM
Things are evolving all the time. A border poll is not going to fly, but there is a possibility that discussion of one with some prospect of a substantial vote for unity might light a sufficient fire under the unionists that special treatment of NI within Brexit might seem the lesser of two evils. It is a very tricky situation politically. A good turnout of non unionist voters in March would help.

Fair enough, we'll have to wait and see if that could happen. The EU themselves will have more of a say than the Dublin government I feel.

The EU may well want to screw Britain, but are willing to make arrangements re NI, if only the British can be persuaded to ask for them. Business and society in NI needs to ramp up the pressure.

Quote from: Applesisapples on February 04, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
Anybody voting for PBP need to look at their Brexit stance, for before and protest after. Ludicrous!

The PBP are a disgrace. And being stuck in a non EU UK run by the Tories will not lead to any benefits for Derry or West Belfast.
May says she wishes the EU well but the people behind Brexit want to destroy the EU so that their favourite companies can get their costs down and dump the various social protections offered in the bloc.
The negotiations could get very messy. Trump is openly hostile to the EU and Brexit is about linking up with the US.
Ordinary Unionists will not be represented either by the Tories or the DUP
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Take Your Points on February 04, 2017, 10:02:48 PM
What's the real situation:

McGuinness invites Trump to N.Ireland after his election win in November 2016

O'Neill states that any visit by Trump is no longer inappropriate

Adams says he will go to the White House on St Patrick's Day if invited.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on February 04, 2017, 10:15:25 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 04, 2017, 10:02:48 PM
What's the real situation:

McGuinness invites Trump to N.Ireland after his election win in November 2016

O'Neill states that any visit by Trump is no longer inappropriate

Adams says he will go to the White House on St Patrick's Day if invited.

All Gerry is concerned about is his ego at this stage, he doesent care how it looks

The money is made, the hay is in the barn
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Take Your Points on February 04, 2017, 10:30:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 04, 2017, 10:15:25 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 04, 2017, 10:02:48 PM
What's the real situation:

McGuinness invites Trump to N.Ireland after his election win in November 2016

O'Neill states that any visit by Trump is no longer inappropriate

Adams says he will go to the White House on St Patrick's Day if invited.

All Gerry is concerned about is his ego at this stage, he doesent care how it looks

The money is made, the hay is in the barn

Surely its the boiler is in the empty barn.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 05, 2017, 11:18:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2017, 01:38:51 PM
Things are evolving all the time. A border poll is not going to fly, but there is a possibility that discussion of one with some prospect of a substantial vote for unity might light a sufficient fire under the unionists that special treatment of NI within Brexit might seem the lesser of two evils. It is a very tricky situation politically. A good turnout of non unionist voters in March would help.

Special treatment for the North! The Spanish wont agree to that because then Gibraltar will want one. Its time the people in the Six Counties realise that their priorities and concerns are well down the list of Britain and the EU
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 05, 2017, 01:57:32 PM
The Spanish will have no particular objections to special treatment for NI, just as the Canary islands have.
The problem is the British.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Take Your Points on February 05, 2017, 03:19:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 05, 2017, 01:57:32 PM
The Spanish will have no particular objections to special treatment for NI, just as the Canary islands have.
The problem is the British.

Correct.  The little Englander has pervaded throughout hence Brexit.  Immigration is the Englander issue.  Republic has a major card to play in how it intends to deal with immigration to UK.  RoI can threaten to allow complete free movement into Ireland by EU nationals and other migrants through all ports and airports knowing British control of over 250 border crossings is impossible even when they had 35,000 army and police. UK would have to move back to ports and airports in Scotland, England and Wales. The N.Ireland would effectively become a special case and apart from rest of UK.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on February 05, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 04, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
Anybody voting for PBP need to look at their Brexit stance, for before and protest after. Ludicrous!

SF had a similar stance a long time but realised there is a political gravy train to be milked . PBP are a socialist party that see the EU and its institutions as part of global capitalist network .  PBP are a socialist party , SF are not .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on February 05, 2017, 07:38:14 PM
How do you milk a gravy train?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2017, 07:41:22 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 05, 2017, 07:38:14 PM
How do you milk a gravy train?
It's forbidden under Jewish dietary laws to mix meat and dairy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on February 05, 2017, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 05, 2017, 07:38:14 PM
How do you milk a gravy train?

The Irish political class can manage it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 05, 2017, 11:35:11 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 05, 2017, 03:19:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 05, 2017, 01:57:32 PM
The Spanish will have no particular objections to special treatment for NI, just as the Canary islands have.
The problem is the British.

Correct.  The little Englander has pervaded throughout hence Brexit.  Immigration is the Englander issue.  Republic has a major card to play in how it intends to deal with immigration to UK.  RoI can threaten to allow complete free movement into Ireland by EU nationals and other migrants through all ports and airports knowing British control of over 250 border crossings is impossible even when they had 35,000 army and police. UK would have to move back to ports and airports in Scotland, England and Wales. The N.Ireland would effectively become a special case and apart from rest of UK.

The Republic has free movement of EU nationals, there is no need to threaten that, having free movement of non EU nationals might just mean they end up in Ireland.  EU nationals will be able to visit Britain on tourist visas in any case and just stay on, but not work legally. Immigration is not the issue here, customs is. The special case needed is for NI to remain in the Single Market.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 06, 2017, 10:15:58 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 05, 2017, 11:35:11 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 05, 2017, 03:19:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 05, 2017, 01:57:32 PM
The Spanish will have no particular objections to special treatment for NI, just as the Canary islands have.
The problem is the British.

Correct.  The little Englander has pervaded throughout hence Brexit.  Immigration is the Englander issue.  Republic has a major card to play in how it intends to deal with immigration to UK.  RoI can threaten to allow complete free movement into Ireland by EU nationals and other migrants through all ports and airports knowing British control of over 250 border crossings is impossible even when they had 35,000 army and police. UK would have to move back to ports and airports in Scotland, England and Wales. The N.Ireland would effectively become a special case and apart from rest of UK.

The Republic has free movement of EU nationals, there is no need to threaten that, having free movement of non EU nationals might just mean they end up in Ireland.  EU nationals will be able to visit Britain on tourist visas in any case and just stay on, but not work legally. Immigration is not the issue here, customs is. The special case needed is for NI to remain in the Single Market.
Why should NI get a special deal more than Scotland or other parts of Britain that voted against Brexit? It is well subsidised already by Westminster.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2017, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 06, 2017, 10:15:58 AM
Why should NI get a special deal more than Scotland or other parts of Britain that voted against Brexit?

Geography. These places do not have a land border.

QuoteIt is well subsidised already by Westminster.

A special deal is more likely to reduce the subsidy than increase it, as it would maintain real economic activity.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 06, 2017, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: ashman on February 05, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 04, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
Anybody voting for PBP need to look at their Brexit stance, for before and protest after. Ludicrous!

SF had a similar stance a long time but realised there is a political gravy train to be milked . PBP are a socialist party that see the EU and its institutions as part of global capitalist network .  PBP are a socialist party , SF are not .
and how does that explain their protests now against the very Brexit they espoused?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on February 06, 2017, 03:55:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 06, 2017, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: ashman on February 05, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 04, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
Anybody voting for PBP need to look at their Brexit stance, for before and protest after. Ludicrous!

SF had a similar stance a long time but realised there is a political gravy train to be milked . PBP are a socialist party that see the EU and its institutions as part of global capitalist network .  PBP are a socialist party , SF are not .
and how does that explain their protests now against the very Brexit they espoused?

They support the EU now and they are in the tent .  Also they are not socialists like PBP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 07, 2017, 08:24:44 AM
Quote from: ashman on February 06, 2017, 03:55:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 06, 2017, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: ashman on February 05, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 04, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
Anybody voting for PBP need to look at their Brexit stance, for before and protest after. Ludicrous!

SF had a similar stance a long time but realised there is a political gravy train to be milked . PBP are a socialist party that see the EU and its institutions as part of global capitalist network .  PBP are a socialist party , SF are not .
and how does that explain their protests now against the very Brexit they espoused?

They support the EU now and they are in the tent .  Also they are not socialists like PBP.
I was asking the question about PBP
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 24, 2017, 10:17:09 PM
So where to now? The great oak is dead and buried. Ger has serious likeability issues especially with the unionists. If Arlene is the catalyst for getting out the republican vote. Gerry is the bogeyman who'll get the garden centre unionists out like a nice weather forecast. So what next can two women get on? Is Michelle seen as gers puppet does she lack the gravitoce to carry popular Sinn Fein support?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on March 24, 2017, 10:43:36 PM
Hard to see what the next play will be. Only hope is that brexit really fucks things up economically and Scotland vote to leave and the border poll goes ahead
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 24, 2017, 10:55:55 PM
Perhaps a joint stand down? Arlene steps aside and Michelle also. John o dowd steps up and perhaps Simon Hamilton. After all were either or both ladies to become pregnant that would involve them being off work for a considerable time and deputies would be the order of the day. So I don't really see it as a problem. As for Irish language act.. its not a deal breaker for me and certainly not a vote getter for Sinn Fein imo
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lawnseed on March 24, 2017, 11:10:45 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 24, 2017, 11:05:49 PM
;D
The pregnant comment....

You also underestimate the Irish language vote, certainly where I vote anyway. They don't piss their pants over it for nothing, believe me.
Signs in Irish better than no signs at all.. rates bill in Irish.. I could live without.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 25, 2017, 08:17:56 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 24, 2017, 11:05:49 PM
;D
The pregnant comment....

You also underestimate the Irish language vote, certainly where I vote anyway. They don't piss their pants over it for nothing, believe me.

Any of you lads willing to take one (or two) for the team?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: hairyhog on March 26, 2017, 09:50:59 AM
The IVF bill would be bigger than the RHI for anything to happen on that front
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on March 27, 2017, 07:28:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 06, 2017, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 06, 2017, 10:15:58 AM
Why should NI get a special deal more than Scotland or other parts of Britain that voted against Brexit?

Geography. These places do not have a land border.

QuoteIt is well subsidised already by Westminster.

A special deal is more likely to reduce the subsidy than increase it, as it would maintain real economic activity.
The voters in Sunderland Birmingham etc wont accept any special deal being given to the most subsidised region of the UK. A land border in Ireland will not impact onthem
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 22, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
Unrest in the nest, some are going away
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/councillor-quits-sinn-fin-over-bullying-and-hostility-claims-35644187.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on April 22, 2017, 01:15:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
Unrest in the nest, some are going away
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/councillor-quits-sinn-fin-over-bullying-and-hostility-claims-35644187.html

Equality, respect & integrity
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on April 22, 2017, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
Unrest in the nest, some are going away
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/councillor-quits-sinn-fin-over-bullying-and-hostility-claims-35644187.html
At least they are not complaining about the cost of cosmetics like Sandra McClellan ex SF td who was also allegedly bullied out of SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 22, 2017, 10:27:51 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 22, 2017, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
Unrest in the nest, some are going away
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/councillor-quits-sinn-fin-over-bullying-and-hostility-claims-35644187.html
At least they are not complaining about the cost of cosmetics like Sandra McClellan ex SF td who was also allegedly bullied out of SF

She should have asked Michelle O'Neill, who obviously buys cosmetics in bulk.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on April 22, 2017, 10:53:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2017, 10:27:51 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 22, 2017, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
Unrest in the nest, some are going away
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/councillor-quits-sinn-fin-over-bullying-and-hostility-claims-35644187.html
At least they are not complaining about the cost of cosmetics like Sandra McClellan ex SF td who was also allegedly bullied out of SF

She should have asked Michelle O'Neill, who obviously buys cosmetics in bulk.

Miaow miaow
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: MoChara on May 08, 2017, 09:58:14 AM
Gerry Adams 'ready to make way for McDonald as Sinn Fein chief'
By Staff Reporter
May 8 2017

Gerry Adams is prepared to hand over the leadership of Sinn Fein to Mary-Lou McDonald at its the party's next ard fheis, it has been reported.



The Sunday Times reported that senior TDs in the republican party foresee a seamless transition from the former West Belfast MP to his deputy in October or November.

"Gerry has been clear, this is a part in transition and he's got a timescale in his head," a party official told the newspaper.

"That is not a consideration for us in the timing of the ard fheis. The problem is that, every time we go to look at it, there is an election on the horizon."

Mr Adams (68) has been President of Sinn Fein since 1983, and there has been much speculation over when he would stand down.

If Dublin TD Ms McDonald were to succeed Mr Adams, it has been suggested that the vacancy for Deputy Leader could be taken by Donegal TD Pearse Doherty or Sinn Fein's Stormont leader, Michelle O'Neill.

Other Sinn Fein sources told the Sunday Times that the death of former Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness earlier this year could mean Mr Adams staying on to see through changes in the party.

The generational shift in the party has been seen in some of the candidates selected for the general election.

Republican veterans such as Gerry Kelly in North Belfast and Pat Doherty in West Tyrone have stood aside for candidates with no associations with the IRA - John Finucane and Barry McElduff respectively.

In Londonderry, Councillor Elisha McCallion is the Westminster candidate in the late Martin McGuinness' home turf.

Meanwhile, Mr Adams last night hit out at Arlene Foster, warning that "DUP support for Brexit is ignoring the potentially disastrous impact it will have on the economy of the North".

He was responding to Mrs Foster, whose party campaigned for Leave in the referendum, after she told an audience in Derry that she was aware of people's concerns around Brexit.

"The United Kingdom's departure from the European Union inevitably brings with it an element of uncertainty," she said.

Mr Adams said that was "the understatement of 2017".

"The DUP leader is ignoring the mounting economic evidence that Brexit will have a significant and detrimental impact on jobs, our economy, especially along the border region, and in the agriculture and agri-food sectors."

Mrs Foster had also said that a border poll would be destabilising at a time when stability is required. Mr Adams retorted: "You can't claim, as Arlene Foster does, to be confident in the outcome of a border poll for the pro-union position and then deny citizens the opportunity to make a choice.

"If Mrs Foster is so certain of the pro-union position then let the people have their say."

He also dismissed Mrs Foster's willingness to re-enter power sharing immediately as "electoral spin".

Belfast Telegraph


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/gerry-adams-ready-to-make-way-for-mcdonald-as-sinn-fein-chief-35690353.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on May 09, 2017, 09:55:01 AM
interesting that sinn fein what the sdlp to stand down in Fermanagh/south Tyrone & North Belfast but offer no reciprocal arrangements elsewhere The logic is they want to send an anti-brexit message.
considering they don`t go to westminister I am struggling to understand this one, would it not be better for sinn fein to step down and let anti Brexit parties who take their seats to get MPs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2017, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 09:55:01 AM
interesting that sinn fein what the sdlp to stand down in Fermanagh/south Tyrone & North Belfast but offer no reciprocal arrangements elsewhere The logic is they want to send an anti-brexit message.
considering they don`t go to westminister I am struggling to understand this one, would it not be better for sinn fein to step down and let anti Brexit parties who take their seats to get MPs.

The logic would have been for agreed non-party candidates in some of these places. Someone from a business or farming background in Fermanagh would provide a very strong anti-Brexit voice. The reality is that SF would be happy with the border sealed off if they thought their party would benefit in some way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on May 09, 2017, 10:41:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2017, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 09:55:01 AM
interesting that sinn fein what the sdlp to stand down in Fermanagh/south Tyrone & North Belfast but offer no reciprocal arrangements elsewhere The logic is they want to send an anti-brexit message.
considering they don`t go to westminister I am struggling to understand this one, would it not be better for sinn fein to step down and let anti Brexit parties who take their seats to get MPs.

The logic would have been for agreed non-party candidates in some of these places. Someone from a business or farming background in Fermanagh would provide a very strong anti-Brexit voice. The reality is that SF would be happy with the border sealed off if they thought their party would benefit in some way.
definitely agree on this one,
sinn fein know that as sdlp take their seats any stepping aside actually destroys the sdlp`s credibility so the tactic is not so much about ant-brexit but about the eradication of the sdlp.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 09, 2017, 01:25:00 PM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 10:41:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2017, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 09:55:01 AM
interesting that sinn fein what the sdlp to stand down in Fermanagh/south Tyrone & North Belfast but offer no reciprocal arrangements elsewhere The logic is they want to send an anti-brexit message.
considering they don`t go to westminister I am struggling to understand this one, would it not be better for sinn fein to step down and let anti Brexit parties who take their seats to get MPs.

The logic would have been for agreed non-party candidates in some of these places. Someone from a business or farming background in Fermanagh would provide a very strong anti-Brexit voice. The reality is that SF would be happy with the border sealed off if they thought their party would benefit in some way.
definitely agree on this one,
sinn fein know that as sdlp take their seats any stepping aside actually destroys the sdlp`s credibility so the tactic is not so much about ant-brexit but about the eradication of the sdlp.


It demonstrates an arrogance by the SF leadership and  continuation of their policy to crush the SDLP by whatever means are available even where it is against the benefit of the nationalist population.  All SF moves are driven by party self interest.  As stated, by recruiting John Finucane as SF candidate rather than running him as a so called independent would have brought support from SDLP to remove Dodds.  By running him as a SF candidate the SF leadership is trying to breakdown the strong vote assembled by Nicola Mallon who has been eating into the SF vote by working hard for everyone in the North Belfast constituency.  An independent in FST would be guaranteed a seat.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on May 09, 2017, 01:38:48 PM
AFAIK, the stoops have never had a pact with the shinners that involved them doing a mutual deal or a deal involving an independent, so throwing in the suggestion of finucane as an independent is nonsense as the stoops would still have stood. It's also pretty patronising to him. Why shouldn't he be a shinner candidate if that's his politics and beliefs, does he have no choice in the matter?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on May 09, 2017, 02:11:19 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 09, 2017, 01:38:48 PM
AFAIK, the stoops have never had a pact with the shinners that involved them doing a mutual deal or a deal involving an independent, so throwing in the suggestion of finucane as an independent is nonsense as the stoops would still have stood[/b

Have you not been listening, the SDLP were absolutely prepared to compromise on independents - confirmed again by Colum Eastwood this morning on Radio Ulster.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on May 09, 2017, 02:40:22 PM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 10:41:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2017, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 09:55:01 AM
interesting that sinn fein what the sdlp to stand down in Fermanagh/south Tyrone & North Belfast but offer no reciprocal arrangements elsewhere The logic is they want to send an anti-brexit message.
considering they don`t go to westminister I am struggling to understand this one, would it not be better for sinn fein to step down and let anti Brexit parties who take their seats to get MPs.

The logic would have been for agreed non-party candidates in some of these places. Someone from a business or farming background in Fermanagh would provide a very strong anti-Brexit voice. The reality is that SF would be happy with the border sealed off if they thought their party would benefit in some way.
definitely agree on this one,
sinn fein know that as sdlp take their seats any stepping aside actually destroys the sdlp`s credibility so the tactic is not so much about ant-brexit but about the eradication of the sdlp.
They are playing the long game. They would be happy to see South Belfast fall to the DUP this time round to break the SDLP hold and give them traction there in 5 years time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 09, 2017, 03:36:38 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 09, 2017, 02:40:22 PM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 10:41:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2017, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 09:55:01 AM
interesting that sinn fein what the sdlp to stand down in Fermanagh/south Tyrone & North Belfast but offer no reciprocal arrangements elsewhere The logic is they want to send an anti-brexit message.
considering they don`t go to westminister I am struggling to understand this one, would it not be better for sinn fein to step down and let anti Brexit parties who take their seats to get MPs.

The logic would have been for agreed non-party candidates in some of these places. Someone from a business or farming background in Fermanagh would provide a very strong anti-Brexit voice. The reality is that SF would be happy with the border sealed off if they thought their party would benefit in some way.
definitely agree on this one,
sinn fein know that as sdlp take their seats any stepping aside actually destroys the sdlp`s credibility so the tactic is not so much about ant-brexit but about the eradication of the sdlp.
They are playing the long game. They would be happy to see South Belfast fall to the DUP this time round to break the SDLP hold and give them traction there in 5 years time.
Agreed, sure big Al in South Belfast is a closet DUPer. What is wrong with SF looking after party self interest. All parties do yet it is hurled at SF North and South as if it something dirty that only they do. The whole agreed candidate thing from the SDLP is a side show.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 09, 2017, 03:39:18 PM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 09:55:01 AM
interesting that sinn fein what the sdlp to stand down in Fermanagh/south Tyrone & North Belfast but offer no reciprocal arrangements elsewhere The logic is they want to send an anti-brexit message.
considering they don`t go to westminister I am struggling to understand this one, would it not be better for sinn fein to step down and let anti Brexit parties who take their seats to get MPs.
To what end, the only message will be in the vote. May will have such a majority that she won't need to listen to anyone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on May 09, 2017, 03:43:03 PM
Apples my point is why did the shinners see merit in  now calling for the sdlp to step aside for to allow the shinners to bring the message
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 09, 2017, 04:38:29 PM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 03:43:03 PM
Apples my point is why did the shinners see merit in  now calling for the sdlp to step aside for to allow the shinners to bring the message
Perhaps because they have momentum, but also safe in the knowledge that the SDLP will say no thus seeming to split the vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 09, 2017, 04:51:36 PM
Why aren't they pushing for PR in all elections in the North?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2017, 04:59:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2017, 04:51:36 PM
Why aren't they pushing for PR in all elections in the North?

Then the SDLP would win seats.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on May 09, 2017, 05:01:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 09, 2017, 04:38:29 PM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 03:43:03 PM
Apples my point is why did the shinners see merit in  now calling for the sdlp to step aside for to allow the shinners to bring the message
Perhaps because they have momentum, but also safe in the knowledge that the SDLP will say no thus seeming to split the vote.
Exactly right - manipulating the electorate into thinking that the SDLP are the bad guys, when SF refused to accept an independent anti-Brexit candidate.
All very well with SF going out to help themselves to the SDLP vote, but by refusing to consider a non-party anti-Brexit person, they are leaving us with Nigel Dodds simply for their own sake.  You may think that's OK, but I certainly don't appreciate being used in SF's nationalist popularity contest ambitions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 09, 2017, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 09, 2017, 04:38:29 PM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 03:43:03 PM
Apples my point is why did the shinners see merit in  now calling for the sdlp to step aside for to allow the shinners to bring the message
Perhaps because they have momentum, but also safe in the knowledge that the SDLP will say no thus seeming to split the vote.

This nonsense about splitting the vote being put forward by SF and supporters (see O'Dowd statement today with its false claims/inferences) is both patronising to the electorate and quite presumptuous. If the SDLP was to stand aside to allow SF a free run in FST or NB then the number of SDLP voters who would switch allegiance or lend their vote would be minimal perhaps even insignificant in terms of winning the seat.  The softer SDLP voter left a good while back when asked to 'lend' their vote to SF and as SDLP learned was lost when they crossed that rubicon. The remaining and continuing SDLP voters would probably switch votes to SF only 'in extremis' and in many cases not even then.  On the other hand, if an agreed independent was put forward who would take his/her seat, the SDLP voters would be delivered in such circumstances.

So for the vast, vast majority of SDLP voters it is not about 'splitting the vote' it is about having someone to vote for rather than vote for a party to whom they are diametrically opposed and which has the worst interests of the SDLP at the heart of its being.  If there were no SDLP candidate then there would be abstention through absence from the poll or blank/spoiled votes and the seat would not be won anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on May 09, 2017, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: Rois on May 09, 2017, 02:11:19 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 09, 2017, 01:38:48 PM
AFAIK, the stoops have never had a pact with the shinners that involved them doing a mutual deal or a deal involving an independent, so throwing in the suggestion of finucane as an independent is nonsense as the stoops would still have stood[/b

Have you not been listening, the SDLP were absolutely prepared to compromise on independents - confirmed again by Colum Eastwood this morning on Radio Ulster.

You believe him if you want
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on May 09, 2017, 05:15:52 PM
He's pretty consistent with his lying
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sdlp-rejects-sinn-fein-call-to-stand-aside-for-election-35691941.html

"While Mrs O'Neill called on Mr Eastwood to withdraw from those two races, she made clear Sinn Fein would not do the same in constituencies where the SDLP is potentially better placed to win, insisting her party would stand in all 18 constituencies."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 09, 2017, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 09, 2017, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: Rois on May 09, 2017, 02:11:19 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 09, 2017, 01:38:48 PM
AFAIK, the stoops have never had a pact with the shinners that involved them doing a mutual deal or a deal involving an independent, so throwing in the suggestion of finucane as an independent is nonsense as the stoops would still have stood[/b

Have you not been listening, the SDLP were absolutely prepared to compromise on independents - confirmed again by Colum Eastwood this morning on Radio Ulster.

You believe him if you want
Someone reboot the Shinnerbot.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2017, 06:56:47 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 09, 2017, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 09, 2017, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: Rois on May 09, 2017, 02:11:19 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 09, 2017, 01:38:48 PM
AFAIK, the stoops have never had a pact with the shinners that involved them doing a mutual deal or a deal involving an independent, so throwing in the suggestion of finucane as an independent is nonsense as the stoops would still have stood[/b

Have you not been listening, the SDLP were absolutely prepared to compromise on independents - confirmed again by Colum Eastwood this morning on Radio Ulster.

You believe him if you want
Someone reboot the Shinnerbot.

(http://i.imgur.com/8WaNpcb.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on May 09, 2017, 07:33:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2017, 06:56:47 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 09, 2017, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 09, 2017, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: Rois on May 09, 2017, 02:11:19 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 09, 2017, 01:38:48 PM
AFAIK, the stoops have never had a pact with the shinners that involved them doing a mutual deal or a deal involving an independent, so throwing in the suggestion of finucane as an independent is nonsense as the stoops would still have stood[/b

Have you not been listening, the SDLP were absolutely prepared to compromise on independents - confirmed again by Colum Eastwood this morning on Radio Ulster.

You believe him if you want
Someone reboot the Shinnerbot.

(http://i.imgur.com/8WaNpcb.jpg)

Bit presumptous, considering I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter, and can honestly state I have not cast a vote for Sinn Fein in more than 20 years. Just because people are critical of your beloved stoops does not automatically make them a Shinner. You can be a republican without being a Shinner. The original post was about Finucane standing as an independent ... IMO there's no way the stoops would have worn that, no matter what wee Colum spouts on Radio Ulster  :-*
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 09, 2017, 08:12:52 PM
The fact that you call them stoops say all about u, no body in recent years has stooped down any lower than Sinn Fein to the Dup, who run circles round them and considering the IQ of some of their representatives  that couldn't be an easy thing. Why anybody would vote for a party who doesn't not represent them in some way but will take the money beats me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on May 09, 2017, 08:33:18 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 09, 2017, 08:12:52 PM
The fact that you call them stoops say all about u, no body in recent years has stooped down any lower than Sinn Fein to the Dup, who run circles round them and considering the IQ of some of their representatives  that couldn't be an easy thing. Why anybody would vote for a party who doesn't not represent them in some way but will take the money beats me.

Give me that in English so I can give you a reply... bit risky bringing IQ up, considering
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on May 09, 2017, 08:49:07 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 09, 2017, 08:33:18 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 09, 2017, 08:12:52 PM
The fact that you call them stoops say all about u, no body in recent years has stooped down any lower than Sinn Fein to the Dup, who run circles round them and considering the IQ of some of their representatives  that couldn't be an easy thing. Why anybody would vote for a party who doesn't not represent them in some way but will take the money beats me.

Give me that in English so I can give you a reply... bit risky bringing IQ up, considering
The most important thing is that Sinn Fein gets its hands on more lolly from Westminster
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 11:48:08 AM
Quote from: Rois on May 09, 2017, 05:01:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 09, 2017, 04:38:29 PM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2017, 03:43:03 PM
Apples my point is why did the shinners see merit in  now calling for the sdlp to step aside for to allow the shinners to bring the message
Perhaps because they have momentum, but also safe in the knowledge that the SDLP will say no thus seeming to split the vote.
Exactly right - manipulating the electorate into thinking that the SDLP are the bad guys, when SF refused to accept an independent anti-Brexit candidate.
All very well with SF going out to help themselves to the SDLP vote, but by refusing to consider a non-party anti-Brexit person, they are leaving us with Nigel Dodds simply for their own sake.  You may think that's OK, but I certainly don't appreciate being used in SF's nationalist popularity contest ambitions.
Why would they go for an independent? SF are a political party and no different to any other they are measured in votes. Why is it something to sneer at when SF adopt a strategy that will deliver electoral success but OK for FF, FG, SDLP and others to do likewise?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 11:53:55 AM
I don't particularly like some of what SF are about, for example holding commemorations which to my mind just mimics loyalism. However the SDLP have not produced a credible political since the Hume/Mallon era espousing progressive politics, with the possible exception of Mark Durkan, the bright one that is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on May 10, 2017, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 11:48:08 AM

Why would they go for an independent? SF are a political party and no different to any other they are measured in votes. Why is it something to sneer at when SF adopt a strategy that will deliver electoral success but OK for FF, FG, SDLP and others to do likewise?

Forgetting strategies down south (we have obvious differences in our electoral systems/voting patterns up here), going for an independent anti-Brexit candidate may have maximised the chances of getting rid of a sitting MP who does not represent the interests of the people in his constituency who voted Remain.  Yes the old argument about our MPs not having any impact will be trotted out, but having someone in Westminster to make noise on our behalf would make me, a North Belfast voter, feel like at least someone was representing my views on it. 
It feels like with this decision, SF put their own vanity/"strategy" ahead of the incredibly frustrated North Belfast constituents who want change but are now not going to get it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on May 10, 2017, 12:54:38 PM
Whats the point of an independent candidate. Gerry Kelly is stepping down after a number of attempts to win a seat. Like it or not Gerry is a divisive character and unlikely ever to be employed lected. John Finucane is of the new generation with no baggage. He can concentrate on policies rather than the previous 40 years. He may be able to attract the extra votes to get him over the line. Non attendance at Westminster is SF policy which makes sense. Are any of the unionist constituencies any better off because of their MPs trips across the water? May and co will sell them down the river if needed to keep their Little England.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on May 10, 2017, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2017, 04:51:36 PM
Why aren't they pushing for PR in all elections in the North?
Both Tories and Labour dont want change
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 10, 2017, 01:45:38 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 10, 2017, 12:54:38 PM
Whats the point of an independent candidate. Gerry Kelly is stepping down after a number of attempts to win a seat. Like it or not Gerry is a divisive character and unlikely ever to be employed lected. John Finucane is of the new generation with no baggage. He can concentrate on policies rather than the previous 40 years. He may be able to attract the extra votes to get him over the line. Non attendance at Westminster is SF policy which makes sense. Are any of the unionist constituencies any better off because of their MPs trips across the water? May and co will sell them down the river if needed to keep their Little England.

Being a SF candidate he automatically takes on the baggage which will prevent the thousands of votes needed to get elected in North Belfast, it is not a case of just needing a little push over the line. Just because he isn't Gerry Kelly doesn't mean that he will be much more attractive to those who did not vote SF in the last poll.  He will carry the same baggage that his leader is now carrying around at IRA commemorations where she must establish her credentials. What makes him a more viable candidate than any other SF candidate to the non-SF voters?

North Belfast election results 2017

DUP   13,309   
UUP   2,418   
PUP   2,053   
AP   3,487   
SF   12,204   
SDLP   5,431   
PBP   1,559   
GP   711   
WP   248   
IND   66   

The unionist vote was 17,780 in the last Assembly election, SF had 12,204 votes when people had a choice of SDLP, PBP & WP who hold 7238 votes of which at least 5576 are needed to equal the unionist vote in the last Assembly election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 01:57:56 PM
Quote from: Rois on May 10, 2017, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 11:48:08 AM

Why would they go for an independent? SF are a political party and no different to any other they are measured in votes. Why is it something to sneer at when SF adopt a strategy that will deliver electoral success but OK for FF, FG, SDLP and others to do likewise?

Forgetting strategies down south (we have obvious differences in our electoral systems/voting patterns up here), going for an independent anti-Brexit candidate may have maximised the chances of getting rid of a sitting MP who does not represent the interests of the people in his constituency who voted Remain.  Yes the old argument about our MPs not having any impact will be trotted out, but having someone in Westminster to make noise on our behalf would make me, a North Belfast voter, feel like at least someone was representing my views on it. 
It feels like with this decision, SF put their own vanity/"strategy" ahead of the incredibly frustrated North Belfast constituents who want change but are now not going to get it.
Anti SF view, it matters not who sits in Westminster, they have every right to push for votes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 02:00:11 PM
I am aghast at the hypocrisy on display on this thread dressed as political opinion/analysis.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on May 10, 2017, 02:08:21 PM
I, and others on here, stated on a different thread that if there was an appropriate anti-Brexit pact, I would vote SF.

I do blame them for not giving me a chance to have an MP (whether they take their seat or not) who will reflect my anti-Brexit views.   


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on May 10, 2017, 05:46:42 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 02:00:11 PM
I am aghast at the hypocrisy on display on this thread dressed as political opinion/analysis.
It's shocking isn't it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 10, 2017, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 02:00:11 PM
I am aghast at the hypocrisy on display on this thread dressed as political opinion/analysis.

Are you also aghast at the fake news manufactured by O'Dowd and O'Neill over today and yesterday?

Yesterday, John O'Dowd in An Phoblacht said that Sinn Féin had opened up the discussion for a progressive alliance "but the SDLP came up with nothing reasonable".

Today, Michelle O'Neill stated:

"When the Westminster election campaign was announced I took the initiative to invite other party leaders to explore the possibilities of a progressive pact to maximise the anti-Brexit, anti Tory vote and pro-rights and pro-equality vote. Other parties were unable to take up this offer."

Colum Eastwood had already got a refusal from Naomi Long and an understanding from Steven Agnew by the time SF began to move on the idea of an anti-Brexit alliance for the election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on May 10, 2017, 07:09:42 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 10, 2017, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 02:00:11 PM
I am aghast at the hypocrisy on display on this thread dressed as political opinion/analysis.

Are you also aghast at the fake news manufactured by O'Dowd and O'Neill over today and yesterday?

Yesterday, John O'Dowd in An Phoblacht said that Sinn Féin had opened up the discussion for a progressive alliance "but the SDLP came up with nothing reasonable".

Today, Michelle O'Neill stated:

"When the Westminster election campaign was announced I took the initiative to invite other party leaders to explore the possibilities of a progressive pact to maximise the anti-Brexit, anti Tory vote and pro-rights and pro-equality vote. Other parties were unable to take up this offer."

Colum Eastwood had already got a refusal from Naomi Long and an understanding from Steven Agnew by the time SF began to move on the idea of an anti-Brexit alliance for the election.
Don't let the truth get in the way of political bullshit
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on May 10, 2017, 08:12:42 PM
So SDLP are giving SF a clear run in N Belfast with the fact they are running Martin McAuley, a press officer for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 10, 2017, 08:16:55 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 10, 2017, 08:12:42 PM
So SDLP are giving SF a clear run in N Belfast with the fact they are running Martin McAuley, a press officer for them.

Nicola Mallon is unavailable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 11, 2017, 04:57:51 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 10, 2017, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 02:00:11 PM
I am aghast at the hypocrisy on display on this thread dressed as political opinion/analysis.

Are you also aghast at the fake news manufactured by O'Dowd and O'Neill over today and yesterday?

Yesterday, John O'Dowd in An Phoblacht said that Sinn Féin had opened up the discussion for a progressive alliance "but the SDLP came up with nothing reasonable".

Today, Michelle O'Neill stated:

"When the Westminster election campaign was announced I took the initiative to invite other party leaders to explore the possibilities of a progressive pact to maximise the anti-Brexit, anti Tory vote and pro-rights and pro-equality vote. Other parties were unable to take up this offer."

Colum Eastwood had already got a refusal from Naomi Long and an understanding from Steven Agnew by the time SF began to move on the idea of an anti-Brexit alliance for the election.
Par for the course with the SDLP and SF always claiming to be the first. It's political whataboutery and all parties do it, which is my point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 11, 2017, 09:56:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 11, 2017, 04:57:51 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 10, 2017, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 10, 2017, 02:00:11 PM
I am aghast at the hypocrisy on display on this thread dressed as political opinion/analysis.

Are you also aghast at the fake news manufactured by O'Dowd and O'Neill over today and yesterday?

Yesterday, John O'Dowd in An Phoblacht said that Sinn Féin had opened up the discussion for a progressive alliance "but the SDLP came up with nothing reasonable".

Today, Michelle O'Neill stated:

"When the Westminster election campaign was announced I took the initiative to invite other party leaders to explore the possibilities of a progressive pact to maximise the anti-Brexit, anti Tory vote and pro-rights and pro-equality vote. Other parties were unable to take up this offer."

Colum Eastwood had already got a refusal from Naomi Long and an understanding from Steven Agnew by the time SF began to move on the idea of an anti-Brexit alliance for the election.
Par for the course with the SDLP and SF always claiming to be the first. It's political whataboutery and all parties do it, which is my point.

Except in the case of SF they were making a false claim and continuing their narrative of re-wrtiting the historical facts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on May 12, 2017, 09:58:45 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39892329

SF seemed to have learned nothing over the past 5 years.

Do they not realise that equating the Irish language with Ulster Scots and Orange 'culture' is about the most insulting thing they could do. They appear to see it as a bargaining chip rather than as an icon of Irish culture to cherish.

It disgusted me that they allowed the DUP to hoodwink them previously on this issue, the unionists must have been laughing their heads off at managing to achieve equality for a 'language' less than a decade old with Gaelic, which has existed for millenia. And O'Neill is giving consideration to going down this route again, I can't think of any better way of diminishing or insulting the Irish language than this, and they are going to fall for it twice.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 12, 2017, 02:29:39 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 12, 2017, 09:58:45 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39892329

SF seemed to have learned nothing over the past 5 years.

Do they not realise that equating the Irish language with Ulster Scots and Orange 'culture' is about the most insulting thing they could do. They appear to see it as a bargaining chip rather than as an icon of Irish culture to cherish.

It disgusted me that they allowed the DUP to hoodwink them previously on this issue, the unionists must have been laughing their heads off at managing to achieve equality for a 'language' less than a decade old with Gaelic, which has existed for millenia. And O'Neill is giving consideration to going down this route again, I can't think of any better way of diminishing or insulting the Irish language than this, and they are going to fall for it twice.
She definitely did no such thing. She was asked if she had an issue for legal protection for Orange Culture and Ulster Scots and quite rightly said she had no issue. That is not the same as saying that any Irish Language Act should include these or that any protection would be equivalent to that framed in an Irish Language Act.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Aristo 60 on August 01, 2017, 03:30:44 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40788800

Gerry's trojan horse starting to canter now...

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 13, 2017, 07:48:36 PM
Meanwhile in the parallel universe PBP/Solidarity have decided they won't let SF be in any future "Left Wing Coalition" because SF said something about possibly being in Coalition with FF or FG sometime in the future.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on September 13, 2017, 08:17:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 13, 2017, 07:48:36 PM
Meanwhile in the parallel universe PBP/Solidarity have decided they won't let SF be in any future "Left Wing Coalition" because SF said something about possibly being in Coalition with FF or FG sometime in the future.

SF are not a socialist party .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on October 20, 2017, 08:17:36 AM
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-say-exmlas-speaker-salary-her-own-affair-36243713.html

Nice work if you can get it .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 20, 2017, 08:58:21 AM
Quote from: ashman on October 20, 2017, 08:17:36 AM
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-say-exmlas-speaker-salary-her-own-affair-36243713.html

Nice work if you can get it .

Integrity.

While thousands move on to unmitigated universal credit and all of us head to a Tory set budget at the beginning of November, an unelected SF politician continues to draw a salary for assistant speaker since leaving the Assembly in June 2017.  Then thinks its OK to say she gave the public money away.

Watch how quickly SF do a deal to return once the Tories have set the budget for 2017-18 that O'Muilleoir couldn't manage to do and then for SF to blame it all on the Tories.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 20, 2017, 09:05:29 AM
O'Neill and Murphy hung out to dry by faceless, unelected SF senior party colleagues.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/why-michelle-oneills-reported-compromise-was-overruled-by-hardliners-36241300.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/why-michelle-oneills-reported-compromise-was-overruled-by-hardliners-36241300.html)

Then Adams, 'the great misleader' according to Leo, tries to spin his way out of the problem by blaming Irish government as the source when non-governmental sources are being quoted by most journalists, i.e. from within SF.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/michelle-o-neill-was-ready-to-make-deal-to-restore-stormont-executive-1.3259884 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/michelle-o-neill-was-ready-to-make-deal-to-restore-stormont-executive-1.3259884)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 20, 2017, 08:45:21 PM
While Universal Credit bites the most vulnerable, bedroom tax is unmitigated, third sector workers are laid off and £30m of in-year cuts are being implemented by the Health Trusts, the Assembly runs up £300,000 for broadcasting nothing and spends £200,000 providing subsidised food to well paid MLAs and their staff and former MLAs continue to be paid £55K pa for the last 7 months until C Ruane SF resigns as Jim Allister TUV exposes the continued payments. Danny Kennedy UUP resigned his assistant Speaker post when he lost his seat in June taking no additional payments and A Attwood SDLP pays his MLA salary back each month.  C Ruane claims to have given her payments from the public purse away instead of returning them but did she provide her usual payment to SF to stay within the average industrial wage? She did nothing legally wrong. 

See how it was reported by BBC on The View:

https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k (https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on October 20, 2017, 10:20:44 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 20, 2017, 08:45:21 PM
While Universal Credit bites the most vulnerable, bedroom tax is unmitigated, third sector workers are laid off and £30m of in-year cuts are being implemented by the Health Trusts, the Assembly runs up £300,000 for broadcasting nothing and spends £200,000 providing subsidised food to well paid MLAs and their staff and former MLAs continue to be paid £55K pa for the last 7 months until C Ruane SF resigns as Jim Allister TUV exposes the continued payments. Danny Kennedy UUP resigned his assistant Speaker post when he lost his seat in June taking no additional payments and A Attwood SDLP pays his MLA salary back each month.  C Ruane claims to have given her payments from the public purse away instead of returning them but did she provide her usual payment to SF to stay within the average industrial wage? She did nothing legally wrong. 

See how it was reported by BBC on The View:

https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k (https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k)

Disgraceful. She should hang her head in shame. One point re: Kennedy, though. He was a minister for years on a very high salary, and then was on a very high salary as assistant speaker, YET he signed on for unemployment benefit when he lost his seat. Did he not have any savings from his 80k a year salary for being a minster for years or his 55k salary as assistant speaker? He has some cheek pleading poverty after his earnings from Stormont
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on October 20, 2017, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 20, 2017, 10:20:44 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 20, 2017, 08:45:21 PM
While Universal Credit bites the most vulnerable, bedroom tax is unmitigated, third sector workers are laid off and £30m of in-year cuts are being implemented by the Health Trusts, the Assembly runs up £300,000 for broadcasting nothing and spends £200,000 providing subsidised food to well paid MLAs and their staff and former MLAs continue to be paid £55K pa for the last 7 months until C Ruane SF resigns as Jim Allister TUV exposes the continued payments. Danny Kennedy UUP resigned his assistant Speaker post when he lost his seat in June taking no additional payments and A Attwood SDLP pays his MLA salary back each month.  C Ruane claims to have given her payments from the public purse away instead of returning them but did she provide her usual payment to SF to stay within the average industrial wage? She did nothing legally wrong. 

See how it was reported by BBC on The View:

https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k (https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k)

Disgraceful. She should hang her head in shame. One point re: Kennedy, though. He was a minister for years on a very high salary, and then was on a very high salary as assistant speaker, YET he signed on for unemployment benefit when he lost his seat. Did he not have any savings from his 80k a year salary for being a minster for years or his 55k salary as assistant speaker? He has some cheek pleading poverty after his earnings from Stormont

This is hardly reasonable. The idea of social insurance is that you pay in while working and then if you lose your job you can get the benefit, it isn't a question of poverty.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 20, 2017, 10:55:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2017, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 20, 2017, 10:20:44 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 20, 2017, 08:45:21 PM
While Universal Credit bites the most vulnerable, bedroom tax is unmitigated, third sector workers are laid off and £30m of in-year cuts are being implemented by the Health Trusts, the Assembly runs up £300,000 for broadcasting nothing and spends £200,000 providing subsidised food to well paid MLAs and their staff and former MLAs continue to be paid £55K pa for the last 7 months until C Ruane SF resigns as Jim Allister TUV exposes the continued payments. Danny Kennedy UUP resigned his assistant Speaker post when he lost his seat in June taking no additional payments and A Attwood SDLP pays his MLA salary back each month.  C Ruane claims to have given her payments from the public purse away instead of returning them but did she provide her usual payment to SF to stay within the average industrial wage? She did nothing legally wrong. 

See how it was reported by BBC on The View:

https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k (https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k)

Disgraceful. She should hang her head in shame. One point re: Kennedy, though. He was a minister for years on a very high salary, and then was on a very high salary as assistant speaker, YET he signed on for unemployment benefit when he lost his seat. Did he not have any savings from his 80k a year salary for being a minster for years or his 55k salary as assistant speaker? He has some cheek pleading poverty after his earnings from Stormont

This is hardly reasonable. The idea of social insurance is that you pay in while working and then if you lose your job you can get the benefit, it isn't a question of poverty.

He registered for job seekers allowance in July, that doesn't mean he received benefits.  He could have continued to receive his assistant Speaker allowance like Ruane but obviously a man of true integrity, not just a political slogan for him, and resigned his Speaker post when not elected.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/danny-kennedy-went-from-high-office-to-dole-what-happened-to-other-mlas-36107528.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/danny-kennedy-went-from-high-office-to-dole-what-happened-to-other-mlas-36107528.html)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on October 21, 2017, 08:01:05 AM
Quote from: red hander on October 20, 2017, 10:20:44 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 20, 2017, 08:45:21 PM
While Universal Credit bites the most vulnerable, bedroom tax is unmitigated, third sector workers are laid off and £30m of in-year cuts are being implemented by the Health Trusts, the Assembly runs up £300,000 for broadcasting nothing and spends £200,000 providing subsidised food to well paid MLAs and their staff and former MLAs continue to be paid £55K pa for the last 7 months until C Ruane SF resigns as Jim Allister TUV exposes the continued payments. Danny Kennedy UUP resigned his assistant Speaker post when he lost his seat in June taking no additional payments and A Attwood SDLP pays his MLA salary back each month.  C Ruane claims to have given her payments from the public purse away instead of returning them but did she provide her usual payment to SF to stay within the average industrial wage? She did nothing legally wrong. 

See how it was reported by BBC on The View:

https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k (https://youtu.be/NcK_mxxVO3k)

Disgraceful. She should hang her head in shame. One point re: Kennedy, though. He was a minister for years on a very high salary, and then was on a very high salary as assistant speaker, YET he signed on for unemployment benefit when he lost his seat. Did he not have any savings from his 80k a year salary for being a minster for years or his 55k salary as assistant speaker? He has some cheek pleading poverty after his earnings from Stormont
He is entitled to sign on, far from me to defend him  but he has paid his taxes and national insurance,
Ruane well that's another story.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 21, 2017, 08:15:14 AM
Is it the case that all MLAs who were not re-elected continued to receive their pay?  What about those who were newly elected did they gat paid too?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: rrhf on October 21, 2017, 08:35:48 AM
Time to remove the money from the mlas. They aren't producing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 21, 2017, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 21, 2017, 08:15:14 AM
Is it the case that all MLAs who were not re-elected continued to receive their pay?  What about those who were newly elected did they gat paid too?

In the St Andrew's Agreement SF and DUP carved up the Assembly rules and structures to ensure their own continuity and control over the Assembly, e.g. the largest party is the one which puts forward the FM instead of the FM coming from the largest community grouping, i.e. nationalist or unionist.

In return SF lost out again due to poor negotiating skills and was thrown a titbit of being given a principal deputy speaker role as the largest grouping could always choose the Speaker.  So, we the public mugs were handed a situation where we pay for a Speaker, a principal deputy Speaker and two deputy Speakers such is the workload demands of this position.

The Speaker, and principal deputy and deputy speakers are continued to be paid with a logic that the Speaker must be in chair to start off a new Assembly even if it is to call for the election of a speaker.  The Speaker's deputies are also in place in case this arduous duty is too much for him/her.

So Newton, Ruane, McGlone and Kennedy were the Speaker, Principal Deputy Speaker and Deputy Speakers in the last Assembly which ended in 26th January 2017 and under the mugs charter we continued to pay them until the next assembly was established.

The nonsense is extended further by Ruane not standing for election on 2nd March 2017 but she continued to be paid for her post as Principal Deputy Speaker on £55K pa. 

Kennedy resigned when he failed to be elected in March 2017, no longer paid.

McGlone was elected and he continues to paid as a deputy speaker. 

Newton was elected and continued to be paid as Speaker on £85K pa.

The other one continuing to be paid even when not elected is Attwood.  He is a member of the Assembly Commission which is to provide the Assembly, with the property, staff and services required for the Assembly to carry out its work, last meeting on 5th July.  He was not elected but because the assembly is not meeting he is unable to resign and he continues to be sent his pay as an MLA with an additional £5K for his commission work which has continued.  To resolve the problem, he sends the MLA salary back each month but retains the money for the commission.

The MLAs elected in March are all being paid and receiving funding for expenses and research staff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on October 21, 2017, 10:42:38 AM
Kennedy behaved with integrity, since he ended up with no seat but still resigned his salary.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 21, 2017, 10:58:36 AM
Mind you I've heard it suggested that he wasn't averse to accepting the odd gift in an envelope for services provided during his days as a Councillor when he worked with BT. Allegedly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: FermGael on October 21, 2017, 11:17:54 PM
Brilliant stuff from Pearse Doherty

   https://youtu.be/zawcvaW3Y48    (https://youtu.be/zawcvaW3Y48)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on November 07, 2017, 11:17:14 PM
Ruth Dudley Edwards will be in Queens on 16th Nov.

https://daro.qub.ac.uk/page.aspx?pid=536&erid=6395350&trid=302ad52f-3364-412a-b628-faeac1c5d8a9

Maybe someone here will attend and then tell us how she turns the event into a smash Sinn Fein show.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2017, 10:50:09 PM
26 county poll not good for SF, they were once only a bit behind FF.

@SunTimesIreland @banda_ie #poll
FG 34 +3
FF 31 +4
SF 14 -5
Lab 3 -1
Sol/PBP 3 +2
Ind All 3
Green 2
SocDem 1
Ind 8 -4
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 12, 2017, 12:11:03 AM
Never mind that
Just wait until ex sticky Halligan gets his old pals in North Korea to promise world peace
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on November 12, 2017, 08:38:05 AM
Quote from: Orior on November 07, 2017, 11:17:14 PM
Ruth Dudley Edwards will be in Queens on 16th Nov.

https://daro.qub.ac.uk/page.aspx?pid=536&erid=6395350&trid=302ad52f-3364-412a-b628-faeac1c5d8a9

Maybe someone here will attend and then tell us how she turns the event into a smash Sinn Fein show.

QuoteSpeaker:  Dr Ruth Dudley Edwards

Dr Edwards is an outstanding academic, a major crime fiction writer, a key opinion former in respect of British-Irish relations,
and an honoured and respected advocate of reason, understanding and fairness in Irish politics and affairs.

Jesus  :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 17, 2017, 11:56:06 AM
First Adams announces he favours introduction of a more liberal approach to abortion and now, guess what, O'Neill declares in today's Irish News, to be in favour of the same.  An All Ireland party.

SF Racing FG to being the pro choice party ahead of referendum on 8th amendment and next RoI election. Neither are populist parties.

Tony!  Tony!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 17, 2017, 03:35:27 PM
How many supporters of either party want Abortion?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 17, 2017, 08:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 17, 2017, 03:35:27 PM
How many supporters of either party want Abortion?
Well a lot of them justify killing those outside the womb so probably haven't a problem killing those inside the womb either
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2017, 12:12:29 AM
Sinn Féin Árd Fheis passes motion to consider entering coalition as Junior partner.
Hmmmm ....
Another step into the real world.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 04:16:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2017, 12:12:29 AM
Sinn Féin Árd Fheis passes motion to consider entering coalition as Junior partner.
Hmmmm ....
Another step into the real world.
Most people now accept that the position of Northern Ireland wont change without a big change in Unionist/Loyalist attitudes. This may change if Brexit turns out as bad as forecasted.  In the interim Sinn Fein will have to make political advances in other areas. Whatever about urban areas I do not believe that their supporters in the rural constituencies are in favour of left wing politics. They will have to move towards the centre and forget about being a party of protest because they have gone as far as they can on that road
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 18, 2017, 04:39:26 PM
well hows this for you.

Say the Easter Rising never happened, say the country was not split back in 1921
say it remained part of Great Britain at the time

In this day and age like scotland the country would have had a referendum for Independence
Vote likely would have went our way and you have a independent Ireland in its entirely
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2017, 04:51:30 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 18, 2017, 04:39:26 PM
well hows this for you.

Say the Easter Rising never happened, say the country was not split back in 1921
say it remained part of Great Britain at the time

In this day and age like scotland the country would have had a referendum for Independence
Vote likely would have went our way and you have a independent Ireland in its entirely

Most likely people would have been talking about the £30bn subsidy and losing BBC iPlayer, like many on here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on November 18, 2017, 04:51:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 18, 2017, 04:39:26 PM
well hows this for you.

Say the Easter Rising never happened, say the country was not split back in 1921
say it remained part of Great Britain at the time

In this day and age like scotland the country would have had a referendum for Independence
Vote likely would have went our way and you have a independent Ireland in its entirely
Yeah It's a pity Collins didnt have a time machine
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 18, 2017, 05:17:31 PM
I suppose nobody could foresee the British empire at the time fall apart, India, Palestine, parts of african, egypt, colonies such as Canada, Australia all in control of the queen, fast foward 100yrs and its all fallen apart.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
Some S.F. delegate just on the R.T.E. news said about Adams retiring that they will have to "blood" some new people.
You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 18, 2017, 07:11:28 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
Some S.F. delegate just on the R.T.E. news said about Adams retiring that they will have to "blood" some new people.
You couldn't make it up.

I know this is staring me in the face, but how do you block someone?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 07:46:07 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 18, 2017, 07:11:28 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
Some S.F. delegate just on the R.T.E. news said about Adams retiring that they will have to "blood" some new people.
You couldn't make it up.

I know this is staring me in the face, but how do you block someone?

Do you mean concrete block someone?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 18, 2017, 07:50:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 18, 2017, 07:11:28 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
Some S.F. delegate just on the R.T.E. news said about Adams retiring that they will have to "blood" some new people.
You couldn't make it up.

I know this is staring me in the face, but how do you block someone?

Click on your own profile, modify settings then buddy/ignore list I think.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 18, 2017, 07:50:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 18, 2017, 07:11:28 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
Some S.F. delegate just on the R.T.E. news said about Adams retiring that they will have to "blood" some new people.
You couldn't make it up.

I know this is staring me in the face, but how do you block someone?

Click on your own profile, modify settings then buddy/ignore list I think.
Block the truth and live in Shinner propaganda land
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 18, 2017, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 18, 2017, 07:50:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 18, 2017, 07:11:28 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
Some S.F. delegate just on the R.T.E. news said about Adams retiring that they will have to "blood" some new people.
You couldn't make it up.

I know this is staring me in the face, but how do you block someone?

Click on your own profile, modify settings then buddy/ignore list I think.
Block the truth and live in Shinner propaganda land

:)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 18, 2017, 08:28:08 PM
So, SF now supports the equivalent of the GB 1967 Abortion Act and no member of the party will be allowed to opt out of supporting this policy on the basis of their conscience.

This position will be ahead of the change that will be proposed in RoI 8th amendment referendum which will be passed as another chance to kick off the shackle of control by the Catholic church.

Will it affect the electorate north or south?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 18, 2017, 08:59:07 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 18, 2017, 07:50:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 18, 2017, 07:11:28 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
Some S.F. delegate just on the R.T.E. news said about Adams retiring that they will have to "blood" some new people.
You couldn't make it up.

I know this is staring me in the face, but how do you block someone?

Click on your own profile, modify settings then buddy/ignore list I think.

That's great, thanks very much. Still tells me that they've posted verbal diarrhoea but at least I don't need to read it until it's quoted.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2017, 09:03:49 PM
Jerry tells the faithful (stooges) he's stepping down as Uachtarán next year.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on November 18, 2017, 09:11:07 PM
A legend.

A hero.

An icon.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on November 18, 2017, 09:42:54 PM
Two genuine heroes gone inside a year basically. Ireland and specifically the North will be worse off,he can be glad of his legacy of leaving the north a lot closer to being unified than when he inherited the party and most importantly Catholics are no longer second class citizens in the North. TAL Gerry.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on November 18, 2017, 09:42:54 PM
Two genuine heroes gone inside a year basically. Ireland and specifically the North will be worse off,he can be glad of his legacy of leaving the north a lot closer to being unified than when he inherited the party and most importantly Catholics are no longer second class citizens in the North. TAL Gerry.

The North is more divided than it has ever been
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2017, 11:30:00 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on November 18, 2017, 09:11:07 PM
A legend.

A hero.

An icon.
Some would say that.
Others would say the opposite.
A lot would be in between but would be thankful they weren't born into the same place and time as the TD for Louth.
Successor?
The awful Marylou or the intelligenth Pearse Doherty.
The latter has 2 problems -he's  male and he's not from Dublin.
The former is painful but she ticks the PC box and the need not to have an Ulster accent box.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 19, 2017, 12:09:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2017, 11:30:00 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on November 18, 2017, 09:11:07 PM
A legend.

A hero.

An icon.
Some would say that.
Others would say the opposite.
A lot would be in between but would be thankful they weren't born into the same place and time as the TD for Louth.
Successor?
The awful Marylou or the intelligenth Pearse Doherty.
The latter has 2 problems -he's  male and he's not from Dublin.
The former is painful but she ticks the PC box and the need not to have an Ulster accent box.

I know where you are coming from but then you have lads like Matt  Carthy  M.E.P.  who can look at the big picture and see that the economic argument must be made. We can try and depend on a U.K. Market or create a situation where we can service a market of 300. Million and beyond
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on November 19, 2017, 01:56:54 AM
Matt Carthy speech was sensational, called out the bullshiters.

Quote from: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on November 18, 2017, 09:42:54 PM
Two genuine heroes gone inside a year basically. Ireland and specifically the North will be worse off,he can be glad of his legacy of leaving the north a lot closer to being unified than when he inherited the party and most importantly Catholics are no longer second class citizens in the North. TAL Gerry.

The North is more divided than it has ever been

You obviously don't live where I live!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2017, 04:03:23 AM
SF is a cross border party, but they have nobody in the whole 6 counties of the calibre of Matt Carthy, which should be of concern.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2017, 06:36:59 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2017, 04:03:23 AM
SF is a cross border party, but they have nobody in the whole 6 counties of the calibre of Matt Carthy, which should be of concern.
[/quote ] That is because of the nature of the leadership in the North over the last decade or 2. The party had to be organised a certain way.

They are also siimilar to the Kilkenny hurlers who relied on old lads who were very good.

Adams must have got a deal on past activities.
SF have an open goal if they can develop a programme based on anti neoliberalism.  Labour in the UK, Sanders and Melenchon are all ploughing the furrow. Ff and FG won't do anything for working class voters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 19, 2017, 08:41:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2017, 04:03:23 AM
SF is a cross border party, but they have nobody in the whole 6 counties of the calibre of Matt Carthy, which should be of concern.

Would he be leadership material? Unlikely since he's out in Brussels I suppose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on November 19, 2017, 08:55:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2017, 04:03:23 AM
SF is a cross border party, but they have nobody in the whole 6 counties of the calibre of Matt Carthy, which should be of concern.

Will Finucane not get there?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 19, 2017, 09:01:42 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 19, 2017, 08:41:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2017, 04:03:23 AM
SF is a cross border party, but they have nobody in the whole 6 counties of the calibre of Matt Carthy, which should be of concern.

Would he be leadership material? Unlikely since he's out in Brussels I suppose.

He's a good politician and a good speaker and debater, but I don't think he has the charisma to be a party leader or future leader of the country.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on November 19, 2017, 09:17:27 AM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 19, 2017, 01:56:54 AM
Matt Carthy speech was sensational, called out the bullshiters.

Quote from: Avondhu star on November 18, 2017, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on November 18, 2017, 09:42:54 PM
Two genuine heroes gone inside a year basically. Ireland and specifically the North will be worse off,he can be glad of his legacy of leaving the north a lot closer to being unified than when he inherited the party and most importantly Catholics are no longer second class citizens in the North. TAL Gerry.

The North is more divided than it has ever been

You obviously don't live where I live!!!

Nor where I live either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on November 19, 2017, 10:04:08 AM
John O'Dowd would be a good canditate for party leader. Though an easy bogey man for Unionists due to Belfast brogue and beard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on November 19, 2017, 10:11:46 AM
Quote from: tiempo on November 19, 2017, 10:04:08 AM
John O'Dowd would be a good canditate for party leader. Though an easy bogey man for Unionists due to Belfast brogue and beard.

Belfast brogue ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 19, 2017, 11:31:28 AM
Quote from: tiempo on November 19, 2017, 10:04:08 AM
John O'Dowd would be a good canditate for party leader. Though an easy bogey man for Unionists due to Belfast brogue and beard.

Anyone would be a bogey man for the Unionists. If they're not they aren't doing their job
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 21, 2017, 11:20:01 AM
I don't see Gerry as a hero, I don't particularly like his delivery of speeches and his use of Irish comes across as unnatural. That said no matter what Seamus Mallon says, without him and Martin McGuinness pushing from within the Northern peace process would have floundered. SF under his leadership have undoubtedly pushed unionism towards equality, though they are not quite there yet. Like him or not he has been a significant influence on modern Irish history.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 21, 2017, 01:34:25 PM
Quote from: tiempo on November 19, 2017, 10:04:08 AM
John O'Dowd would be a good canditate for party leader. Though an easy bogey man for Unionists due to Belfast brogue and beard.
Doesn't matter as ex FFr Marylou has already been chosen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 21, 2017, 01:54:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2017, 01:34:25 PM
Quote from: tiempo on November 19, 2017, 10:04:08 AM
John O'Dowd would be a good canditate for party leader. Though an easy bogey man for Unionists due to Belfast brogue and beard.
Doesn't matter as ex FFr Marylou has already been chosen.
By the way his accent is pure Lurgan spade, complete with colloquialisms.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trentoneill15 on November 21, 2017, 03:41:58 PM
I don't vote for any party, I have no interest in lining the pockets of clowns, no party represent my views, you have to laugh at these clowns, do they really think a unified Ireland is possible without a population displacement?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on November 21, 2017, 03:59:14 PM
Funny enough this clown here thinks that it is possible. But as I've said in earlier posts, there's too many middle of the road types about these days. Which ironically enough are linked to SF and the chances that catholics receive now in terms of education. Reading on here, we could safely guess that most posters on a gaaboard forum are catholics, with a fair few coming from the North. I can't help but feel that if Gerry was to read this thread he would feel like Jack Nicholson's Col Jessop  in '' A few Good Men"....

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. ''
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 21, 2017, 04:00:49 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on November 21, 2017, 03:41:58 PM
I don't vote for any party, I have no interest in lining the pockets of clowns, no party represent my views, you have to laugh at these clowns, do they really think a unified Ireland is possible without a population displacement?
Maybe you could be displaced to Rockall....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 21, 2017, 04:01:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2017, 04:00:49 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on November 21, 2017, 03:41:58 PM
I don't vote for any party, I have no interest in lining the pockets of clowns, no party represent my views, you have to laugh at these clowns, do they really think a unified Ireland is possible without a population displacement?
Maybe you could be displaced to Rockall....

I second this motion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on November 21, 2017, 05:21:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 21, 2017, 11:20:01 AM
I don't see Gerry as a hero, I don't particularly like his delivery of speeches and his use of Irish comes across as unnatural. That said no matter what Seamus Mallon says, without him and Martin McGuinness pushing from within the Northern peace process would have floundered. SF under his leadership have undoubtedly pushed unionism towards equality, though they are not quite there yet. Like him or not he has been a significant influence on modern Irish history.
What is the point of his occasional use of Irish within a speech which is predominantly delivered in English?  It just sounds a bit ridiculous imo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 21, 2017, 06:37:26 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 21, 2017, 04:01:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2017, 04:00:49 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on November 21, 2017, 03:41:58 PM
I don't vote for any party, I have no interest in lining the pockets of clowns, no party represent my views, you have to laugh at these clowns, do they really think a unified Ireland is possible without a population displacement?
Maybe you could be displaced to Rockall....

I second this motion.

All in favour raise your right hand
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trentoneill15 on November 21, 2017, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2017, 04:00:49 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on November 21, 2017, 03:41:58 PM
I don't vote for any party, I have no interest in lining the pockets of clowns, no party represent my views, you have to laugh at these clowns, do they really think a unified Ireland is possible without a population displacement?
Maybe you could be displaced to Rockall....

I found that comment funny, thanks for bringing some joy to my day.
I don't get your logic though, Sinn Feiners go on about accepting others but why can you not accept Catholics like me who know a unified Ireland will never happen with your tactics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 21, 2017, 09:13:08 PM
I accept everyone's right to have an opinion no matter how silly.
These lúdramáns might suit you

https://www.nationalparty.ie/en/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 24, 2017, 07:52:32 AM
Will we have a General Election before Christmas or will An Tánaiste fall on her sword "in the Interest of the Country " as the Blueshirts and the Builders/Auctioneers dig in?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 24, 2017, 12:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2017, 07:52:32 AM
Will we have a General Election before Christmas or will An Tánaiste fall on her sword "in the Interest of the Country " as the Blueshirts and the Builders/Auctioneers dig in?

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: give her dixie on November 25, 2017, 12:40:13 AM
There was a motion going before the floor last weekend that I was keeping an eye on.
It was calling on the party to stop meeting with Netanyahu's Likud party in Ireland and to keep
the word on supporting the BDS campaign.

It was a hard hitting motion, and was passionately defended by Reada Cronin from Maynooth.
However, an amendment was added which would allow them to continue meeting them as long as they
were talking about peace........ This was the leadership position and Martina Anderson and Pat Sheehan
spoke in defence of it, along with another delegate who added the amendment.

It was a tight vote and the amendment passed by 12 votes in the end.

Below is the original motion with the amendment in capitals. 

Motion 74
This Ard Fheis agrees that, in view of Sinn Féin's stated commitment to the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Campaign, Sinn Féin will have no more meetings or dealings with the right-wing party Likud, or any Israeli political parties that gives succour or support, either covertly or overtly, to the increased expansion of illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian lands in violation of international law. FOR ANY REASON OTHER THAN THE GENUINE ADVANCEMENT OF THE CAUSE OF SEEKING A JUST SETTLEMENT TO THE CONFLICT OR OTHERWISE REQUESTED TO DO SO BY PALESTINIAN POLITICAL LEADERS

As you can see they have given themselves permission to entertain any Israeli delegation right up to Netanyahu himself
as long as they are talking peace. Given that the Israelis are professional peace talkers as they expand their occupation, you can be
assured that they will continue to milk this new found relationship for nothing other than PR purposes. It's how they operate.

Apart from those who followed party lines and voted for an excuse to meet any rep from Israel, there is not only opposition to
these meetings, but outrage. How on the one hand can they ask people to boycott certain products at their local supermarket in
protest at Israeli crimes, while at the same time entertain those who are responsible for the crimes? And what is the point of holding
a solidarity rally on a Sunday evening for Palestine, and then stay silent as Likud are in for tea and biscuits on Tuesday?

There is only one winner in all of this, and it sure isn't the Palestinians......

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 25, 2017, 06:24:52 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on November 25, 2017, 12:40:13 AM
There was a motion going before the floor last weekend that I was keeping an eye on.
It was calling on the party to stop meeting with Netanyahu's Likud party in Ireland and to keep
the word on supporting the BDS campaign.

It was a hard hitting motion, and was passionately defended by Reada Cronin from Maynooth.
However, an amendment was added which would allow them to continue meeting them as long as they
were talking about peace........ This was the leadership position and Martina Anderson and Pat Sheehan
spoke in defence of it, along with another delegate who added the amendment.

It was a tight vote and the amendment passed by 12 votes in the end.

Below is the original motion with the amendment in capitals. 

Motion 74
This Ard Fheis agrees that, in view of Sinn Féin's stated commitment to the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Campaign, Sinn Féin will have no more meetings or dealings with the right-wing party Likud, or any Israeli political parties that gives succour or support, either covertly or overtly, to the increased expansion of illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian lands in violation of international law. FOR ANY REASON OTHER THAN THE GENUINE ADVANCEMENT OF THE CAUSE OF SEEKING A JUST SETTLEMENT TO THE CONFLICT OR OTHERWISE REQUESTED TO DO SO BY PALESTINIAN POLITICAL LEADERS

As you can see they have given themselves permission to entertain any Israeli delegation right up to Netanyahu himself
as long as they are talking peace. Given that the Israelis are professional peace talkers as they expand their occupation, you can be
assured that they will continue to milk this new found relationship for nothing other than PR purposes. It's how they operate.

Apart from those who followed party lines and voted for an excuse to meet any rep from Israel, there is not only opposition to
these meetings, but outrage. How on the one hand can they ask people to boycott certain products at their local supermarket in
protest at Israeli crimes, while at the same time entertain those who are responsible for the crimes? And what is the point of holding
a solidarity rally on a Sunday evening for Palestine, and then stay silent as Likud are in for tea and biscuits on Tuesday?

There is only one winner in all of this, and it sure isn't the Palestinians......

The Palestinians have had plenty opportunities to become winners but they have allowed themselves to be manipulated by thei Arab brothers who's interests are well away from the Palestinian interests
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on November 25, 2017, 06:41:46 PM
Your on the wind up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on November 28, 2017, 11:03:49 AM
It appears to me that Gerry retired as the stars are really beginning to line up for reunification.

Gerry knows he is a bogeyman to practically everyone in politics north and south of the river and that has served a fantastic purpose getting us to where we are now, the leadership he showed along with Martin in getting the Republican movement this far marks them out as some of the greatest politicians of their time on a global scale. They brought an Empire to its knees, they brought a sectarian ideology to the discussion table, and they took the gun out of Irish politics.

Now is the time for the younger comrades to bring it home, it might take a few years yet but the wheels are in motion, too many macro political game changers are in play and I feel the point of no return is fast approaching for the abortion statelet that was gerrymandered almost a century ago. Brexit, Tory greed, British bafflement with the DUP, British disloyalty to the abortion statelet (watch this space), Unionist brain drain, SF surge in the polls in the north, etc.

Fair play to Gerry he has removed himself from frontline politics so as to remove another obstacle to unity, the over Gerry's dead body club north and south of the river. He will continue to be a great guiding light for Republicans going forward and no doubt influence many future strategies, but he led it from the front and played a blinder. No better man.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 28, 2017, 02:02:54 PM
Well said Gerry😆😆
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on November 28, 2017, 03:40:25 PM
Rossfan if history has taught us anything the Irish will bollcoks it all up with the finish line in sight
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on November 28, 2017, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 28, 2017, 03:40:25 PM
Rossfan if history has taught us anything the Irish will bollcoks it all up with the finish line in sight

If you think unification is in sight you need to get your eyesight checked.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on November 28, 2017, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: tiempo on November 28, 2017, 11:03:49 AM
It appears to me that Gerry retired as the stars are really beginning to line up for reunification.

Gerry knows he is a bogeyman to practically everyone in politics north and south of the river and that has served a fantastic purpose getting us to where we are now, the leadership he showed along with Martin in getting the Republican movement this far marks them out as some of the greatest politicians of their time on a global scale. They brought an Empire to its knees, they brought a sectarian ideology to the discussion table, and they took the gun out of Irish politics.

Now is the time for the younger comrades to bring it home, it might take a few years yet but the wheels are in motion, too many macro political game changers are in play and I feel the point of no return is fast approaching for the abortion statelet that was gerrymandered almost a century ago. Brexit, Tory greed, British bafflement with the DUP, British disloyalty to the abortion statelet (watch this space), Unionist brain drain, SF surge in the polls in the north, etc.

Fair play to Gerry he has removed himself from frontline politics so as to remove another obstacle to unity, the over Gerry's dead body club north and south of the river. He will continue to be a great guiding light for Republicans going forward and no doubt influence many future strategies, but he led it from the front and played a blinder. No better man.

Says the man who thinks  John O Dowd is from Belfast !!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 30, 2017, 05:39:29 PM
One of them has gone away from the party.
Sinn Féin Senator quits party after 'unacceptable behaviour' against him
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1130/924037-senator/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 30, 2017, 06:42:40 PM
Did HQ decide he wasn't getting the Nomination?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LooseCannon on November 30, 2017, 07:09:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 30, 2017, 06:42:40 PM
Did HQ decide he wasn't getting the Nomination?

I presume you mean army council?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on November 30, 2017, 07:52:18 PM
To paraphrase the old joke

"Gerry, is it true that members of Sinn Fein who don't tow the party line are being bullied?"

"Ní Ceapaim."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on November 30, 2017, 08:50:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 30, 2017, 06:42:40 PM
Did HQ decide he wasn't getting the Nomination?
THe namesake niece of the Farrell woman shot in Gibraltar was going up against him, no doubt the Belfast backroom wanted her to get it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 30, 2017, 11:22:26 PM
What did he expect?
Lie down with dogs you get up with fleas
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mrhardyannual on December 01, 2017, 12:35:40 AM
Has O Clochertaigh not left Labour and Green Party before. Seems like many others across many parties he is a Mé Féiner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 01, 2017, 07:45:14 AM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 01, 2017, 12:35:40 AM
Has O Clochertaigh not left Labour and Green Party before. Seems like many others across many parties he is a Mé Féiner.

Better off without him. I have severe reservations about the likes of O'Clocohartaigh and that Andrews lad in Dublin who are essentially career politicians. I'd be much happier with Farrell running ahead of him as she comes from bona fide Republican stock.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on December 01, 2017, 08:15:29 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 01, 2017, 07:45:14 AM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 01, 2017, 12:35:40 AM
Has O Clochertaigh not left Labour and Green Party before. Seems like many others across many parties he is a Mé Féiner.

Better off without him. I have severe reservations about the likes of O'Clocohartaigh and that Andrews lad in Dublin who are essentially career politicians. I'd be much happier with Farrell running ahead of him as she comes from bona fide Republican stock.

Correct, no dissent by keeping representation within the family, don't want any free thinkers as elected representatives.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on December 01, 2017, 08:33:33 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on December 01, 2017, 08:15:29 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 01, 2017, 07:45:14 AM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 01, 2017, 12:35:40 AM
Has O Clochertaigh not left Labour and Green Party before. Seems like many others across many parties he is a Mé Féiner.

Better off without him. I have severe reservations about the likes of O'Clocohartaigh and that Andrews lad in Dublin who are essentially career politicians. I'd be much happier with Farrell running ahead of him as she comes from bona fide Republican stock.

Correct, no dissent by keeping representation within the family, don't want any free thinkers as elected representatives.
We all know how Sinn Fein like to keep it in the family
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 01, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/claim-sinn-fein-would-block-stormont-for-a-generation-over-brexit-rubbish-says-party-36370277.html

John O'Dowd said that Brexit would cripple Stormont if there were border controls, while O'Neill came along and said not. It seems that Gay marriage is more important than partition to the Shinners, which some of use have long suspected. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 01, 2017, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on December 01, 2017, 12:35:40 AM
Has O Clochertaigh not left Labour and Green Party before. Seems like many others across many parties he is a Mé Féiner.

Search and destroy dissent has always been the SF way. A party of intransigence in a golden era of compromise and progress.

And true believers wonder why no one deals with them nor has much respect for any of their moral stances.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 01, 2017, 06:41:45 PM
Not much compromise or progress around the US or in our nearest neighbour or in Poland or Hungary.
A SF Councillor in Athlone not happy either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on December 01, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
So much for the Good Friday Agreement and a new relationship North South and East West.
SF and DUP behaving like spoilt children. British establishment attacking the Irish position
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 01, 2017, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 01, 2017, 06:41:45 PM
Not much compromise or progress around the US or in our nearest neighbour or in Poland or Hungary.
A SF Councillor in Athlone not happy either.

Not much relevance to the situation in the north, either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 01, 2017, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 01, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
So much for the Good Friday Agreement and a new relationship North South and East West.
SF and DUP behaving like spoilt children. British establishment attacking the Irish position

SF playing a blinder at the minute, no need to wade in and take focus off the Tory-DUP axis that is truely up shit creek without a padel.

SF have absolutley no interest in making a success of the frankenstien statelet. Its days are well and truely numbered, Gerry has stepped down so as not to get in the way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 03, 2017, 02:04:03 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 01, 2017, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 01, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
So much for the Good Friday Agreement and a new relationship North South and East West.
SF and DUP behaving like spoilt children. British establishment attacking the Irish position

SF playing a blinder at the minute, no need to wade in and take focus off the Tory-DUP axis that is truely up shit creek without a padel.

SF have absolutley no interest in making a success of the frankenstien statelet. Its days are well and truely numbered, Gerry has stepped down so as not to get in the way.

Your dead right there. Sinn Fein are a byword for standing in the way of progreed. If only they and Gerry had stepped out of the road years ago we'd be in a better position now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 03, 2017, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 03, 2017, 02:04:03 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 01, 2017, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 01, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
So much for the Good Friday Agreement and a new relationship North South and East West.
SF and DUP behaving like spoilt children. British establishment attacking the Irish position

SF playing a blinder at the minute, no need to wade in and take focus off the Tory-DUP axis that is truely up shit creek without a padel.

SF have absolutley no interest in making a success of the frankenstien statelet. Its days are well and truely numbered, Gerry has stepped down so as not to get in the way.

Your dead right there. Sinn Fein are a byword for standing in the way of progreed. If only they and Gerry had stepped out of the road years ago we'd be in a better position now.

Would we. I wouldn't fancy living in a state where the Stoops are hopping into their gimpsuits for their unionist overlords.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on December 03, 2017, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 03, 2017, 02:04:03 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 01, 2017, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 01, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
So much for the Good Friday Agreement and a new relationship North South and East West.
SF and DUP behaving like spoilt children. British establishment attacking the Irish position

SF playing a blinder at the minute, no need to wade in and take focus off the Tory-DUP axis that is truely up shit creek without a padel.

SF have absolutley no interest in making a success of the frankenstien statelet. Its days are well and truely numbered, Gerry has stepped down so as not to get in the way.

Your dead right there. Sinn Fein are a byword for standing in the way of progreed. If only they and Gerry had stepped out of the road years ago we'd be in a better position now.
Yeah that's why nationalists continue to stop voting for them in their droves.  They are on a downward spiral and will soon be a forgotten political force.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 03, 2017, 02:10:32 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 03, 2017, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 03, 2017, 02:04:03 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 01, 2017, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 01, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
So much for the Good Friday Agreement and a new relationship North South and East West.
SF and DUP behaving like spoilt children. British establishment attacking the Irish position

SF playing a blinder at the minute, no need to wade in and take focus off the Tory-DUP axis that is truely up shit creek without a padel.

SF have absolutley no interest in making a success of the frankenstien statelet. Its days are well and truely numbered, Gerry has stepped down so as not to get in the way.

Your dead right there. Sinn Fein are a byword for standing in the way of progreed. If only they and Gerry had stepped out of the road years ago we'd be in a better position now.

Would we. I wouldn't fancy living in a state where the Stoops are hopping into their gimpsuits for their unionist overlords.

Sf having been bohica for the brits for over 10 years now and what has it brought us? A collapsed assembly with ni being ruled by a British government that had the DUP lead as the whip hand. Ah yeah the shimmers have been doing a top job alright!  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on December 03, 2017, 03:23:29 PM
Oh dear! Another resignation from SF in Galway. Apparently this councillor can't accept the cult like directions being delivered from Falls Rd H.Q. by the local barstool republican scumbags
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on December 03, 2017, 04:27:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 03, 2017, 03:23:29 PM
Oh dear! Another resignation from SF in Galway. Apparently this councillor can't accept the cult like directions being delivered from Falls Rd H.Q. by the local barstool republican scumbags

Your a hard lad behind a keyboard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on December 03, 2017, 04:42:22 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 03, 2017, 04:27:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 03, 2017, 03:23:29 PM
Oh dear! Another resignation from SF in Galway. Apparently this councillor can't accept the cult like directions being delivered from Falls Rd H.Q. by the local barstool republican scumbags

Your a hard lad behind a keyboard.

Do you think you need to be hard to call a spade a spade? Huh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2017, 05:45:39 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 03, 2017, 04:27:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 03, 2017, 03:23:29 PM
Oh dear! Another resignation from SF in Galway. Apparently this councillor can't accept the cult like directions being delivered from Falls Rd H.Q. by the local barstool republican scumbags

Your a hard lad behind a keyboard.
Wouldn't be so hard if ye got him into a shed near Carrickmacross  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on December 03, 2017, 05:58:01 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 03, 2017, 02:10:32 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 03, 2017, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 03, 2017, 02:04:03 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 01, 2017, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 01, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
So much for the Good Friday Agreement and a new relationship North South and East West.
SF and DUP behaving like spoilt children. British establishment attacking the Irish position

SF playing a blinder at the minute, no need to wade in and take focus off the Tory-DUP axis that is truely up shit creek without a padel.

SF have absolutley no interest in making a success of the frankenstien statelet. Its days are well and truely numbered, Gerry has stepped down so as not to get in the way.

Your dead right there. Sinn Fein are a byword for standing in the way of progreed. If only they and Gerry had stepped out of the road years ago we'd be in a better position now.

Would we. I wouldn't fancy living in a state where the Stoops are hopping into their gimpsuits for their unionist overlords.

Sf having been bohica for the brits for over 10 years now and what has it brought us? A collapsed assembly with ni being ruled by a British government that had the DUP lead as the whip hand. Ah yeah the shimmers have been doing a top job alright!  ::)

You do realise why the assembly has collapsed, it might be something to do with their partners in Government not being accountable for their mischief? For whatever faults SF have, they are the only real viable option for nationalists to vote for in the O6. I never have nor ever will vote for the quasi-unionists in the SDLP, if that's what you want to do then fire ahead.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on December 03, 2017, 05:59:16 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 03, 2017, 04:42:22 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 03, 2017, 04:27:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 03, 2017, 03:23:29 PM
Oh dear! Another resignation from SF in Galway. Apparently this councillor can't accept the cult like directions being delivered from Falls Rd H.Q. by the local barstool republican scumbags

Your a hard lad behind a keyboard.

Do you think you need to be hard to call a spade a spade? Huh?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on December 30, 2017, 08:43:44 AM
Some conjecture that Gerry Adams 'set up' the Loughall ambush. If so, then that would mean he knew the SAS were waiting. If true, this sounds worse for the loyalists who love to hate Adams. Was Adams in cahoots with the British?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 30, 2017, 09:54:54 AM
When will someone be charged with the murder of Mr Hughes(?), the innocent motorist whose car was riddled with bullets?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on December 30, 2017, 12:45:31 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 30, 2017, 08:43:44 AM
Some conjecture that Gerry Adams 'set up' the Loughall ambush. If so, then that would mean he knew the SAS were waiting. If true, this sounds worse for the loyalists who love to hate Adams. Was Adams in cahoots with the British?

I know Gerry Adams feared Jim Lynagh.

The IRA unit that night went out with old weaponry even though new weapons were available.

A brother of one of the victims blamed Gerry Adams straight after the tragedy happened.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on December 30, 2017, 02:42:09 PM
Both Jim lynagh and Padraic Mckearney were closely aligned to  RSF, O'Bradaigh O'connaill and the others who walked put of the mansion house in  31st october 1986, maura mckearney nee murray, mother of Padraic and who herself died in Jan 2017, from Roscommon being one of O'bradaighs oldest friends, so the likelihood  of a Belfast sanctioned ( not necessarily Adams) set up is not a far fetched fantasy at all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 06, 2018, 12:25:09 PM
See Barry McElduff showing everybody the brand of bread he favours. Wonder what stunt he will pull next, after this spectacular own goal? If that's the level we've descended to, then they can keep the Assembly under wraps for good & god only knows what effective contribution he is making, as an M.P.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 06, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 06, 2018, 12:25:09 PM
See Barry McElduff showing everybody the brand of bread he favours. Wonder what stunt he will pull next, after this spectacular own goal? If that's the level we've descended to, then they can keep the Assembly under wraps for good & god only knows what effective contribution he is making, as an M.P.

Actually think he isn't mocking Kingsmill, he is just as usual being really unfunny. Who ever told this fella he is funny? Think he had a book out too about his "humour".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 06, 2018, 12:51:36 PM
It's a bit bizarre, certainly, but far too much of a coincidence - talk about handing Unionism an open goal to aim at. Looks like the centralised Sinn Fein control apparatus was AWOL that night.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 06, 2018, 01:15:14 PM
McElduff is always at craic like that whether you think is funny or not is another thing... I don't think he'd intentionally be doing it at Kingsmill massacre... is quite a co-incidence the anniversary but I think it is that. In fact knowing Barry theres no way he'd do that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Puckoon on January 06, 2018, 03:50:38 PM
Unfortunately that's the best explanation. The worst explanation is the one that will be clung to
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on January 06, 2018, 04:41:12 PM
Ok. I don't believe Barry meant any harm by the video.

Now , let's imagine there was a loaf called Loughgall and on the anniversary of the ambush there a unionist politician put up a video with the Loughall loaf on his head what would the reaction be among republicans/ nationalists? I think we all know what the reaction would be and it wouldn't be ''twas an innocent mistake'. What would we expect the unionist or his/her party to do? Whatever we expect from them them we ought to expect same from Sinn Fein!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2018, 05:35:35 PM
What a stupid clown
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 06, 2018, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 06, 2018, 04:41:12 PM
Ok. I don't believe Barry meant any harm by the video.

Now , let's imagine there was a loaf called Loughgall and on the anniversary of the ambush there a unionist politician put up a video with the Loughall loaf on his head what would the reaction be among republicans/ nationalists? I think we all know what the reaction would be and it wouldn't be ''twas an innocent mistake'. What would we expect the unionist or his/her party to do? Whatever we expect from them them we ought to expect same from Sinn Fein!
A fair point, but I'm afraid the Kingsmill and Loughgall incidents are not like for like.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on January 06, 2018, 06:29:21 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 06, 2018, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 06, 2018, 04:41:12 PM
Ok. I don't believe Barry meant any harm by the video.

Now , let's imagine there was a loaf called Loughgall and on the anniversary of the ambush there a unionist politician put up a video with the Loughall loaf on his head what would the reaction be among republicans/ nationalists? I think we all know what the reaction would be and it wouldn't be ''twas an innocent mistake'. What would we expect the unionist or his/her party to do? Whatever we expect from them them we ought to expect same from Sinn Fein!
A fair point, but I'm afraid the Kingsmill and Loughgall incidents are not like for like.

Barry has to go in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 06, 2018, 06:46:42 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 06, 2018, 06:29:21 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 06, 2018, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 06, 2018, 04:41:12 PM
Ok. I don't believe Barry meant any harm by the video.

Now , let's imagine there was a loaf called Loughgall and on the anniversary of the ambush there a unionist politician put up a video with the Loughall loaf on his head what would the reaction be among republicans/ nationalists? I think we all know what the reaction would be and it wouldn't be ''twas an innocent mistake'. What would we expect the unionist or his/her party to do? Whatever we expect from them them we ought to expect same from Sinn Fein!
A fair point, but I'm afraid the Kingsmill and Loughgall incidents are not like for like.

Barry has to go in my opinion.
Too much of a coincidence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 06, 2018, 07:05:31 PM
Barry offering to meet Kingsmills' families? Looks like the seat could be vacant, pretty soon.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 06, 2018, 07:06:05 PM
That Barry got a loaf of bread on his head to send up the Kingsmills killings - not a chance he deliberately did that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 06, 2018, 07:12:43 PM
The fact that this is the type of person that can be voted in govt say plenty, (about the voters) Hes as funny as Sammy Wilson,
i think (and it goes for both sides) vote in some people ( Jim Wells, Sammy Wilson, Jolene bunting, Greg Campbell) prime examples who are incapable of looking after themselves fore by try to run govt, or councils get voted in on the back of their parties, I actually think u could put up any party backed clown up and people would vote for him.

Mistake by Barry? don't think so, he knew what he was doing, in any other walk of life he get the road but in ole Norm Iron real politics and common sense don't apply
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 06, 2018, 07:15:11 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 06, 2018, 07:06:05 PM
That Barry got a loaf of bread on his head to send up the Kingsmills killings - not a chance he deliberately did that.
365 to 1! Pretty long odds!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 06, 2018, 07:17:45 PM
Well he certainly doesn't seem to have been wearing another loaf today for the Wise Men coming.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 06, 2018, 07:28:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 06, 2018, 07:15:11 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 06, 2018, 07:06:05 PM
That Barry got a loaf of bread on his head to send up the Kingsmills killings - not a chance he deliberately did that.
365 to 1! Pretty long odds!

It is long odds but still dont believe he'd purposefully send it up. If you look at his posts is always carrying on like that...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: TabClear on January 06, 2018, 07:57:52 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 06, 2018, 07:12:43 PM
The fact that this is the type of person that can be voted in govt say plenty, (about the voters) Hes as funny as Sammy Wilson,
i think (and it goes for both sides) vote in some people ( Jim Wells, Sammy Wilson, Jolene bunting, Greg Campbell) prime examples who are incapable of looking after themselves fore by try to run govt, or councils get voted in on the back of their parties, I actually think u could put up any party backed clown up and people would vote for him.

Mistake by Barry? don't think so, he knew what he was doing, in any other walk of life he get the road but in ole Norm Iron real politics and common sense don't apply

Everything he said.

It's f**king embarrassing that t**sers like this get elected here. As for McElduff at best he is a moron who thinks it's "funny" to post the kind of moronic videos he does and at worst he's no better than Jim Allister. Great options
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 06, 2018, 08:46:29 PM
To decide whether it was a deliberate act of provocation you only need to look at his track record.  Has he done this sort of stuff before?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 06, 2018, 08:46:42 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 06, 2018, 07:15:11 PM
365 to 1! Pretty long odds!

Longer again that he picked Kingsmills bread  ahead of any other brand.  Double it up that he put the writing the right way up too.

All in all  a terribly unlucky man. Remember that he and his like are building an Ireland of equals and teaching respect to all and sundry.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 06, 2018, 08:55:57 PM
Quote from: StGallsGAA on January 06, 2018, 08:46:29 PM
To decide whether it was a deliberate act of provocation you only need to look at his track record.  Has he done this sort of stuff before?

People believe him capable of it, so protestations are ineffective.
SF have promoted these clowns and allowed them act the bollix for years, and now they have run out of road.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: nrico2006 on January 06, 2018, 09:03:15 PM
Surely cant be a coincidence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 06, 2018, 09:07:04 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 06, 2018, 09:03:15 PM
Surely cant be a coincidence.
If it's not a coincidence, it is a hateful thing to have done.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SHEEDY on January 06, 2018, 09:08:52 PM
cant believe he's done that on purpose if he has he's pretty stupid and as to go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Aaron Boone on January 06, 2018, 09:23:23 PM
He would have been posting for his usual audience, a bit of craic. But the web can be unforgiving.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on January 06, 2018, 09:34:30 PM
He embarrassed all nationalists/republicans with his idiotic video. Let's not be hypocrites, if this was Poots, Wilson or Campbell we'd be rightly up in arms. The sensible decision in the interest of the party would be for him to step aside. Will he? Probably not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 06, 2018, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on January 06, 2018, 09:34:30 PM
He embarrassed all nationalists/republicans with his idiotic video. Let's not be hypocrites, if this was Poots, Wilson or Campbell we'd be rightly up in arms. The sensible decision in the interest of the party would be for him to step aside. Will he? Probably not.

Poots, Wilson or Campbell wouldn't apologise tho.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 06, 2018, 09:42:59 PM
He needs to be removed for sheer stupidity.

What a ducking dick when It if was a pat the baker loaf f I have the same reaction. A 3 year old wouldn't think it funny and if that's the level of public representation available to SF I cringe. Michelle Doris has Her hands full with a p***k like him
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on January 06, 2018, 09:43:45 PM
I don't believe Mc Elduff did this deliberately.What was there to be gained from doing so? It's just he fancies himself as a bit of a comedian,which he never will be.

It was a godsend for Unionist politicians in terms of point scoring though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 06, 2018, 09:44:08 PM
McElduff is an absolute moron, that much is true. How he thinks he is funny is anyone's guess. Didn't he try a bit of stand up recently ffs?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seany on January 06, 2018, 09:44:24 PM
What a load of complete nonsense. Barry McElduff is an excellent public representative for the people of Tyrone who have great affection for him. He interprets his role differently and perhaps better, than other politicians. He doesn't take himself seriously, he isn't precious about himself and is fearless in assisting both sides of the community. We all know that he didn't do this on purpose. Kingsmill was a nakedly and blatantly sectarian outrage which no republican could be proud of. It happened during an IRA ceasefire and McElduff would have absolutely nothing whatsoever to gain from making fun of it. SO why would he do it?  Logically, or rationally, why would he do something like this on purpose. The problem is that social media has become a nasty place with an online mob waiting and hoping to be 'outraged' by something that they might read. Barry is the latest victim. People need to catch themselves on and cop onto themselves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 06, 2018, 09:46:24 PM
Quote from: StGallsGAA on January 06, 2018, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on January 06, 2018, 09:34:30 PM
He embarrassed all nationalists/republicans with his idiotic video. Let's not be hypocrites, if this was Poots, Wilson or Campbell we'd be rightly up in arms. The sensible decision in the interest of the party would be for him to step aside. Will he? Probably not.

Poots, Wilson or Campbell wouldn't apologise tho.
What's that got to do with the price of fish? Does it constitute "respect" if he has apologised?  Utter hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 06, 2018, 09:48:01 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 06, 2018, 09:44:24 PM
What a load of complete nonsense. Barry McElduff is an excellent public representative for the people of Tyrone who have great affection for him. He interprets his role differently and perhaps better, than other politicians. He doesn't take himself seriously, he isn't precious about himself and is fearless in assisting both sides of the community. We all know that he didn't do this on purpose. Kingsmill was a nakedly and blatantly sectarian outrage which no republican could be proud of. It happened during an IRA ceasefire and McElduff would have absolutely nothing whatsoever to gain from making fun of it. SO why would he do it?  Logically, or rationally, why would he do something like this on purpose. The problem is that social media has become a nasty place with an online mob waiting and hoping to be 'outraged' by something that they might read. Barry is the latest victim. People need to catch themselves on and cop onto themselves.

Considering the antics and viciousness of the Shinnerbots on social media you can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seany on January 06, 2018, 09:54:09 PM
Fair enough Minder. You're right on that one. Social media shows that we're all as bad as each other in thsi respect.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: TabClear on January 06, 2018, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 06, 2018, 09:43:45 PM
I don't believe Mc Elduff did this deliberately.What was there to be gained from doing so? It's just he fancies himself as a bit of a comedian,which he never will be.

It was a godsend for Unionist politicians in terms of point scoring though.

The irony...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 06, 2018, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 06, 2018, 09:44:24 PM
What a load of complete nonsense. Barry McElduff is an excellent public representative for the people of Tyrone who have great affection for him. He interprets his role differently and perhaps better, than other politicians. He doesn't take himself seriously, he isn't precious about himself and is fearless in assisting both sides of the community. We all know that he didn't do this on purpose. Kingsmill was a nakedly and blatantly sectarian outrage which no republican could be proud of. It happened during an IRA ceasefire and McElduff would have absolutely nothing whatsoever to gain from making fun of it. SO why would he do it?  Logically, or rationally, why would he do something like this on purpose. The problem is that social media has become a nasty place with an online mob waiting and hoping to be 'outraged' by something that they might read. Barry is the latest victim. People need to catch themselves on and cop onto themselves.

Ok Barry.........

I pity the people of tyrone if this Muppet is the best republican prepared to stand
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 06, 2018, 10:15:25 PM
Seems to be a prize floot altogether.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 06, 2018, 10:22:49 PM
What did he say in the video clip?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2018, 10:26:27 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 06, 2018, 10:22:49 PM
What did he say in the video clip?

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/949662927585513474
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seany on January 06, 2018, 10:33:25 PM
So you think I'm Barry McEllduff now?  Heh heh heh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on January 06, 2018, 10:55:20 PM
If Barry doesn't go SF will get pulled apart in every interview north and south on their "respect " agenda. Their political opponents will have a field day.

They don't really sack people.

He will have to be leaned on to resign.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 06, 2018, 11:07:43 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 06, 2018, 10:26:27 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 06, 2018, 10:22:49 PM
What did he say in the video clip?

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/949662927585513474

Come back Datsun Donaghy. All is forgiven.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Over the Bar on January 06, 2018, 11:12:52 PM
The unreserved apology coupled with the offer to meet relatives and a history of relatively harmless,  clownish tweets would seem to point to a crass but damaging mistake.   

The politicians who have tripped over themselves in the rush to immediately condemn as a deliberate, mocking attack on the victims are the ones who appear only too willing to exploit and add to the families' grief just to score a quick political point, rather than do the sensible thing and ask McElduff to explain himself.   Shameful at best.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on January 06, 2018, 11:19:19 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on January 06, 2018, 11:12:52 PM
The unreserved apology coupled with the offer to meet relatives and a history of relatively harmless,  clownish tweets would seem to point to a crass but damaging mistake.   

The politicians who have tripped over themselves in the rush to immediately condemn as a deliberate, mocking attack on the victims are the ones who appear only too willing to exploit and add to the families' grief just to score a quick political point, rather than do the sensible thing and ask McElduff to explain himself.   Shameful at best.

It's possible that people don't believe the apology.

It's possible that people think the offer of a meeting is meaningless as the offer isn't going to be accepted.

It's not as if Wee Barry has a track record of posting pictures of his shopping with such a high degree of frequency that the instance of posting a picture of that product on that day with the writing the right way up for this to be explained away as some form of coincidence. This was a deliberate act
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on January 06, 2018, 11:28:27 PM
If this were anywhere else other than NI then Barry would be in the dock but this happened inside the 6 counties where such antics are kinda normal.  Does he happen to be a Tyronite? Not an excuse, just an explanation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 06, 2018, 11:40:02 PM
Has he been asked to provide an explanation as to what it was he was doing and why he did it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: east down gael on January 07, 2018, 12:16:21 AM
I just can't believe he deliberately meant to cause offence to anyone.if he did it would be a monumental error.his brand of humour is,for want of a better word,terrible.but harmless enough.i honestly believe it was a genuine mistake,and would be disappointed with the unionist politicians,aswell as some in the sdlp,who immediately jumped on this as a political point scoring opportunity.the kind of behaviour you'd expect off Bryson,not those who should know better.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 07, 2018, 12:20:16 AM
He does daft videos all the time eating ice-creams etc out and about. I dont believe eithrr he wud deliberatly pour scorn on Kingsmill killings... not a chance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: east down gael on January 07, 2018, 12:26:11 AM
Totally agree,not a chance he meant it.even those claiming he did probably know this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 07, 2018, 12:26:31 AM
Quote from: LCohen on January 06, 2018, 11:19:19 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on January 06, 2018, 11:12:52 PM
The unreserved apology coupled with the offer to meet relatives and a history of relatively harmless,  clownish tweets would seem to point to a crass but damaging mistake.   

The politicians who have tripped over themselves in the rush to immediately condemn as a deliberate, mocking attack on the victims are the ones who appear only too willing to exploit and add to the families' grief just to score a quick political point, rather than do the sensible thing and ask McElduff to explain himself.   Shameful at best.

It's possible that people don't believe the apology.

It's possible that people think the offer of a meeting is meaningless as the offer isn't going to be accepted.

It's not as if Wee Barry has a track record of posting pictures of his shopping with such a high degree of frequency that the instance of posting a picture of that product on that day with the writing the right way up for this to be explained away as some form of coincidence. This was a deliberate act

The offer has been accepted apparently.

If deliberate and intended to offend why apologise then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 07, 2018, 12:43:34 AM
Carl Frampton -

I don't normally comment on politics and I don't care of your political view but what Barry McElduff did was disgraceful and shameful. Hard to comprehend how someone in his position could do that. Idiotic! Stick to the politics and stop trying to be a comedian
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 07, 2018, 12:52:42 AM
An absolute moron and always has been. As funny as cancer. He should have been put up the road a long time ago. Imagine this is the best public representative you can find in the area. The mind boggles.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 07, 2018, 12:57:06 AM
I think he's done this video to send to a mate to make fun of Kingsmill but has posted it online instead/by mistake.

Don't give us this innocent mistake bullshit yes it was a mistake but there's no innocence in it. There's no way he didn't know the significance of what he was doing it just wasn't intended for public consumption.

The problem is Sinn Fein's "Equality and Respect" campaign can't really work if they're going to apologise for this crap.

Amateur bullshit like this really annoys me we should be better than Gregory/Poots/Foster/McCrea etc. and much like the crocodile comment the Unionists will use this to beat us with for a long time to come. You can't make fun of the deaths of 11 people!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2018, 01:01:41 AM
He have to go, but in general in northern Ireland could Potts, S Wilson, G Campbell, and a couple of sinners ever get voted in anywhere else but here, the lack of understanding or capability to carry out the role as a sensible politician is all but lost up here. We can have scandals like red sky, RHI, but no-one resigns, in England u be out the door in record time, (unless u T Blair). Sinn Fein and the DUP need a complete clean out and bring in sensible more educated people not so stuck in the past. John Taylor formerly of the UUP making a real tit of himself too this weather.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on January 07, 2018, 09:35:58 AM
Even if a mistake/accident/confidence, which I really struggle to believe, he has to go. If the shoe was on the other foot "we" would all be up in arms. Embarrassing shite altogether.

Good that he's offered to meet the families and fair play to them for accepting, but that should be about doing the right thing and not saving his political skin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 07, 2018, 09:58:52 AM
Pubs, clubs, taxis....whatever you say, use your loaf.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 07, 2018, 10:10:15 AM
I think he has to go.

However up here there are repeated "has to go" incidents and they never do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 07, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Apparently Paul Hollywood has invited Barry "The Loaf" McElduff on to the Great British Bake Off, to discuss bread making.
Barry refused & said he strongly objected to the name of the programme & that they had absolutely no sovereignty over Irish loaves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 07, 2018, 10:53:29 AM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 07, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Apparently Paul Hollywood has invited Barry "The Loaf" McElduff on to the Great British Bake Off, to discuss bread making.
Barry refused & said he strongly objected to the name of the programme & that they had absolutely no sovereignty over Irish loaves.

McElduff's video was funnier  :(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 07, 2018, 11:39:47 AM
I expect he's saving whatever excuse he has for Stephen Nolan show on Monday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 07, 2018, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: Seany on January 06, 2018, 09:44:24 PM
What a load of complete nonsense. Barry McElduff is an excellent public representative for the people of Tyrone who have great affection for him. He interprets his role differently and perhaps better, than other politicians. He doesn't take himself seriously, he isn't precious about himself and is fearless in assisting both sides of the community.

He only is elected by those in West Tyrone. Even the people of West Tyrone do not have a 'great affection for him', 49.3% of the electorate voted against him even where none of their favoured candidates could beat the SF vote.

Within SF, he has been moved to being the SF MP to take him out of the Assembly and hopefully the public view. Most people never saw or knew the previous SF MP for WT.

What has he ever done for his constituency that has had a major effect on bringing employment to the area or improved the health system?  Nothing.  He allowed his party to remove the local hospital to Enniskillen where it is now a white elephant greatly under used and a huge waste of £300m.  He sat back when his party moved the construction of the A5 from Omagh-Ballygawley to Derry-Strabane instead of continuing a dual carriageway to the centre of his constituency which would deliver jobs to this area.

Maybe he should show some of this fearlessness in his own party to represent the people of his constituency when moves are made to buy votes in FST and Foyle in Westminster elections at the expense of those in WT.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 12:40:39 PM
Shinner bashers having a field day!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 07, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 12:40:39 PM
Shinner bashers having a field day!

That's how it works in politics, if he wasn't a moron there would be no field day
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on January 07, 2018, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 07, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 12:40:39 PM
Shinner bashers having a field day!

That's how it works in politics, if he wasn't a moron there would be no field day

You can't blame them.

SF making it easy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 12:56:11 PM
It doesn't look good and you can understand the anger the Kingsmill families will feel but the opportunistic way the usual elements have jumped on the offended bus is nauseating.

Only McElduff will know whether it was an accident or not. If he's sincere in his apologies and the families can accept that then a line should be drawn under it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 07, 2018, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 07, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 12:40:39 PM
Shinner bashers having a field day!

That's how it works in politics, if he wasn't a moron there would be no field day

You can't blame them.

SF making it easy
It was at best utterly stupid but whether it was deliberate or not is questionable. The criticism coming from Unionism is a bit rich and outrage from stoops laughable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on January 07, 2018, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 07, 2018, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 07, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 12:40:39 PM
Shinner bashers having a field day!

That's how it works in politics, if he wasn't a moron there would be no field day

You can't blame them.

SF making it easy
It was at best utterly stupid but whether it was deliberate or not is questionable. The criticism coming from Unionism is a bit rich and outrage from stoops laughable.

Don't buy that line at all.

Only the wee fella himself knows if was deliberate. So its easy to argue that it is questionable. But once you look at the issue of probability then your argument becomes wafer thin. The chances of his actions not being deliberate are fantastically remote.

Criticism of his actions is very understandable. An argument that you cannot or should not criticise him because you are either a unionist or a SDLP member/voter has no basis in logic
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 07, 2018, 01:20:03 PM
It's the slack news time of the year. If Barry posts something that most people would deem to be spectacularly stupid, then political opponents, of all shades, will milk it, for all it's worth.

It's always interesting that, when there's always a lot of talk about the Kingsmills incident, it's often overlooked that 5 Catholics were butchered the night before & another died later. The DUP, in particular, sought to seriously damage the reputation of one of those families.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 01:30:08 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 07, 2018, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 07, 2018, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 07, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 12:40:39 PM
Shinner bashers having a field day!

That's how it works in politics, if he wasn't a moron there would be no field day

You can't blame them.

SF making it easy
It was at best utterly stupid but whether it was deliberate or not is questionable. The criticism coming from Unionism is a bit rich and outrage from stoops laughable.

Don't buy that line at all.

Only the wee fella himself knows if was deliberate. So its easy to argue that it is questionable. But once you look at the issue of probability then your argument becomes wafer thin. The chances of his actions not being deliberate are fantastically remote.

Criticism of his actions is very understandable. An argument that you cannot or should not criticise him because you are either a unionist or a SDLP member/voter has no basis in logic
I saw the video within minutes of it being posted on his social media. It wasn't until yesterday morning that I had learned that it had coincided with the anniversary of the Kingsmill massacre. I find it hard to comprehend that someone could be so unbelievably stupid to knowingly post something like that given its significance. The vast majority of republicans are ashamed of Kingsmills, so why  someone would want to deliberately mock it in such a "blatant" manner is hard to understand. Even more so when they're a SF elected rep.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on January 07, 2018, 01:30:49 PM
McElduff can actually give his party the high moral ground here by resigning which would be a big statement that they are serious about respect across the board and show that there is a bit of decency. Considering his apology and subsequent offer to meet the families, I don't believe it was a deliberately malicious act but it was an idiotic thing to do and he would be best doing the right thing for his party and for nationalists/republican's in general and that mean's stepping down.

It would negate any accusations of hypocrisy when SF call on Foster et al to resign. Frampton should stick to the boxing instead of weighing into this debate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on January 07, 2018, 02:11:06 PM
Unconfimed reports that Mc Elduff has resigned and will become a Hovis Witness!😂😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 07, 2018, 02:15:45 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 07, 2018, 02:11:06 PM
Unconfimed reports that Mc Elduff has resigned and will become a Hovis Witness!😂😂

His video was funnier
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on January 07, 2018, 03:59:21 PM
The absolute hack of some of the lads on here like. Yeah, it's non-Shinners who are the ones to be laughed at here. f**king state of you all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: square_ball on January 07, 2018, 04:23:08 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on January 07, 2018, 01:30:49 PM
McElduff can actually give his party the high moral ground here by resigning which would be a big statement that they are serious about respect across the board and show that there is a bit of decency. Considering his apology and subsequent offer to meet the families, I don't believe it was a deliberately malicious act but it was an idiotic thing to do and he would be best doing the right thing for his party and for nationalists/republican's in general and that mean's stepping down.

It would negate any accusations of hypocrisy when SF call on Foster et al to resign. Frampton should stick to the boxing instead of weighing into this debate.

So Frampton isn't allowed an opinion on anything other than boxing? Always have to laugh at people saying this that sportsmen should stick to their sport whilst at the same time offering an opinion on said situation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2018, 03:59:21 PM
The absolute hack of some of the lads on here like. Yeah, it's non-Shinners who are the ones to be laughed at here. f**king state of you all.
Would you have known, off the top of your head, prior to Friday, the date of the Kingsmill massacre?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on January 07, 2018, 04:33:06 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on January 07, 2018, 01:30:49 PM
McElduff can actually give his party the high moral ground here by resigning which would be a big statement that they are serious about respect across the board and show that there is a bit of decency. Considering his apology and subsequent offer to meet the families, I don't believe it was a deliberately malicious act but it was an idiotic thing to do and he would be best doing the right thing for his party and for nationalists/republican's in general and that mean's stepping down.

It would negate any accusations of hypocrisy when SF call on Foster et al to resign. Frampton should stick to the boxing instead of weighing into this debate.

Agree re the opportunity for SF to adopt the high moral ground.

Can't agree that Frampton has any lesser right than any of the rest of us to comment
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on January 07, 2018, 04:37:42 PM
Quote from: square_ball on January 07, 2018, 04:23:08 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on January 07, 2018, 01:30:49 PM
McElduff can actually give his party the high moral ground here by resigning which would be a big statement that they are serious about respect across the board and show that there is a bit of decency. Considering his apology and subsequent offer to meet the families, I don't believe it was a deliberately malicious act but it was an idiotic thing to do and he would be best doing the right thing for his party and for nationalists/republican's in general and that mean's stepping down.

It would negate any accusations of hypocrisy when SF call on Foster et al to resign. Frampton should stick to the boxing instead of weighing into this debate.

So Frampton isn't allowed an opinion on anything other than boxing? Always have to laugh at people saying this that sportsmen should stick to their sport whilst at the same time offering an opinion on said situation.

Not specifically aimed at yellowcard but there also more broadly an issue of thinking that sport stars should only speak on political issues if they happen to agree with your own political stance
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 07, 2018, 04:58:02 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2018, 03:59:21 PM
The absolute hack of some of the lads on here like. Yeah, it's non-Shinners who are the ones to be laughed at here. f**king state of you all.
Would you have known, off the top of your head, prior to Friday, the date of the Kingsmill massacre?
No, but it would appear that Barry McElduff did.  The odds do not stack up well in his favour.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 07, 2018, 05:09:12 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 07, 2018, 12:40:39 PM
Shinner bashers having a field day!
Sorry. We didn't realise that Sinn Fein are entitled to be exempted from criticism. When you have
gobshites like this gent it's a bit much to expect his stupidity not to be subject of comment
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 05:11:47 PM
If this guy wasn't malicious he is surely the most stupid elected person in Ireland (thats saying something). Either way he should resign.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2018, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 05:11:47 PM
If this guy wasn't malicious he is surely the most stupid elected person in Ireland (thats saying something). Either way he should resign.

He should. And SF should not run yet another eejit candidate but should support an agreed Anti-Brexit candidate who will actually go to Westminster and contradict the nonsense there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on January 07, 2018, 05:32:26 PM
Idiotic behaviour.

But politicians here don't resign. Did Arlene resign for dancing on the stage with that crowd of DUP loons at the La Mon or RHI? Did Nelson resign over Red Sky? Did Peter resign over Nama? Did Paisley resign for labelling the Reaveys as IRA members? Did junior resign for any amount of f**k-ups and lining of his own pockets?

Don't be holding your breath
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 06:07:33 PM
Quote from: red hander on January 07, 2018, 05:32:26 PM
Idiotic behaviour.

But politicians here don't resign. Did Arlene resign for dancing on the stage with that crowd of DUP loons at the La Mon or RHI? Did Nelson resign over Red Sky? Did Peter resign over Nama? Did Paisley resign for labelling the Reaveys as IRA members? Did junior resign for any amount of f**k-ups and lining of his own pockets?

Don't be holding your breath

Irrelevant what bigoted dinosaurs in unionism do. As a nationalist I expect a lot more from people who claim to represent me. People here comparing it to what a grade A bigot like Sammy Wilson said previously are missing the point I think.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 07, 2018, 06:18:45 PM
So a SF elected Rep either makes a total clown of himself or  is deliberately obnoxious over a mass killing by republican paramilitaries.
Nobody is allowed to criticise him especially if they're
Unionists
SDLP members
A Sportsman.
Strange oul place Shinnerworld. ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 07:13:26 PM
Jesus man, hold back here. Nobody said he wasn't open to criticism. There's not one person that wouldn't agree that it was crass stupidity, however I don't think it was malicious. He seems to like to play the fool and on this occasion I think he meant to send the video to a number of close personal friends but made a mistake and hit the wrong button. It was pretty insensitive for an MP to joke about an issue like this but as always there are many who want to jump on the bandwagon and shaft him. I'm sure that at the moment he's suffering worse that the criticisers as a result of this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 07:18:47 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 07:13:26 PM
Jesus man, hold back here. Nobody said he wasn't open to criticism. There's not one person that wouldn't agree that it was crass stupidity, however I don't think it was malicious. He seems to like to play the fool and on this occasion I think he meant to send the video to a number of close personal friends but made a mistake and hit the wrong button. It was pretty insensitive for an MP to joke about an issue like this but as always there are many who want to jump on the bandwagon and shaft him. I'm sure that at the moment he's suffering worse that the criticisers as a result of this.

So it was malicious and he just sent to wrong people. Seriously you want a clown like that represent you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 07, 2018, 07:38:53 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 07:13:26 PM
Jesus man, hold back here. Nobody said he wasn't open to criticism. There's not one person that wouldn't agree that it was crass stupidity, however I don't think it was malicious. He seems to like to play the fool and on this occasion I think he meant to send the video to a number of close personal friends but made a mistake and hit the wrong button. It was pretty insensitive for an MP to joke about an issue like this but as always there are many who want to jump on the bandwagon and shaft him. I'm sure that at the moment he's suffering worse that the criticisers as a result of this.
Pretty insensitive?  That has to be the understatement of 2018 to date.  As for your final comment, what about the victims' families?  Where do they sit in your league table of suffering?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 07, 2018, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: red hander on January 07, 2018, 05:32:26 PM
Idiotic behaviour.

But politicians here don't resign. Did Arlene resign for dancing on the stage with that crowd of DUP loons at the La Mon or RHI? Did Nelson resign over Red Sky? Did Peter resign over Nama? Did Paisley resign for labelling the Reaveys as IRA members? Did junior resign for any amount of f**k-ups and lining of his own pockets?

Don't be holding your breath

Don't remember any of them running on the slogan of Equality, Respect & Integrity, trying to gain the moral high ground as they pulled down the institutions and then doing nothing about an elected representative mocking the sectarian murders at Kingsmills.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on January 07, 2018, 07:57:34 PM
The question for anyone of us is.....
Do I believe he was making fun of the Kingsmill killings?

I don't believe he was making fun of the killings. I believe that the anniversary was not in his head the way the Loughgall killings would have been. It should have been however. He was acting the lig as usual with his 'entertaining' videos and made a terrible mistake. I am not a die hard Sinn Fein supporter. In fact I have never voted for Sinn Fein since 1981.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 07, 2018, 08:04:15 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 07, 2018, 07:57:34 PM
The question for anyone of us is.....
Do I believe he was making fun of the Kingsmill killings?

I don't believe he was making fun of the killings. I believe that the anniversary was not in his head the way the Loughgall killings would have been. It should have been however. He was acting the lig as usual with his 'entertaining' videos and made a terrible mistake. I am not a die hard Sinn Fein supporter. In fact I have never voted for Sinn Fein since 1981.

Before all hell broke loose, someone on his twitter account likened his joke image to the massacre making a wise crack about it. Barry 'Liked' it, but I think it is gone now as he deleted the post. Perhaps someone else kept the thread, because it is rather incriminating.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 07, 2018, 08:05:37 PM
The big problem is not what he thought he was up to, or whether he possibly never meant it out to go to a wider audience than it actually did. His problem is how it would be perceived, once he did post it, especially among non SF voters. No amount of wriggling will overturn that initial damage.
First rule of twitter, for a local politician....think before you post anything?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 07, 2018, 08:08:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 07, 2018, 08:04:15 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 07, 2018, 07:57:34 PM
The question for anyone of us is.....
Do I believe he was making fun of the Kingsmill killings?

I don't believe he was making fun of the killings. I believe that the anniversary was not in his head the way the Loughgall killings would have been. It should have been however. He was acting the lig as usual with his 'entertaining' videos and made a terrible mistake. I am not a die hard Sinn Fein supporter. In fact I have never voted for Sinn Fein since 1981.

Before all hell broke loose, someone on his twitter account likened his joke image to the massacre making a wise crack about it. Barry 'Liked' it, but I think it is gone now as he deleted the post. Perhaps someone else kept the thread, because it is rather incriminating.

Looks like his bosses are at last taking it seriously:

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sinn-fein-leadership-to-meet-barry-mcelduff-1-8319628 (https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sinn-fein-leadership-to-meet-barry-mcelduff-1-8319628)

BTW the video was liked by O'Muilleor and his tweet has been captured.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 07, 2018, 06:18:45 PM
So a SF elected Rep either makes a total clown of himself or  is deliberately obnoxious over a mass killing by republican paramilitaries.
Nobody is allowed to criticise him especially if they're
Unionists
SDLP members
A Sportsman.
Strange oul place Shinnerworld. ::)

Odd that you wouldn't criticise FF in their roles in perverting justice for Mary Boyle's sister and the families of the Stardust.

Strange old world, that of the the Free State Establishment parties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 08:22:05 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 07, 2018, 06:18:45 PM
So a SF elected Rep either makes a total clown of himself or  is deliberately obnoxious over a mass killing by republican paramilitaries.
Nobody is allowed to criticise him especially if they're
Unionists
SDLP members
A Sportsman.
Strange oul place Shinnerworld. ::)

Odd that you wouldn't criticise FF in their roles in perverting justice for Mary Boyle's sister and the families of the Stardust.

Strange old world, that of the the Free State Establishment parties.
What aboutery

What a brain fart from McElduff
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 08:34:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 07, 2018, 08:22:05 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 07, 2018, 06:18:45 PM
So a SF elected Rep either makes a total clown of himself or  is deliberately obnoxious over a mass killing by republican paramilitaries.
Nobody is allowed to criticise him especially if they're
Unionists
SDLP members
A Sportsman.
Strange oul place Shinnerworld. ::)

Odd that you wouldn't criticise FF in their roles in perverting justice for Mary Boyle's sister and the families of the Stardust.

Strange old world, that of the the Free State Establishment parties.
What aboutery

What a brain fart from McElduff

Whataboutery is important in terms of balance. I'm just commenting on how he is not consistent in his outrage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 07, 2018, 07:38:53 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 07:13:26 PM
Jesus man, hold back here. Nobody said he wasn't open to criticism. There's not one person that wouldn't agree that it was crass stupidity, however I don't think it was malicious. He seems to like to play the fool and on this occasion I think he meant to send the video to a number of close personal friends but made a mistake and hit the wrong button. It was pretty insensitive for an MP to joke about an issue like this but as always there are many who want to jump on the bandwagon and shaft him. I'm sure that at the moment he's suffering worse that the criticisers as a result of this.
Pretty insensitive?  That has to be the understatement of 2018 to date.  As for your final comment, what about the victims' families?  Where do they sit in your league table of suffering?
I meant it was insensitive in the context of him just having a personal joke with a few close friends. As for my final comment, I'm not sure where reference was made to a league table of suffering. I can't speak for the families, nor can I speak for McIlduff, but I'd say he feels pretty bad over this. Has it added anything extra to tbe families suffering, I don't know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 07, 2018, 08:50:19 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 08:41:37 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 07, 2018, 07:38:53 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 07:13:26 PM
Jesus man, hold back here. Nobody said he wasn't open to criticism. There's not one person that wouldn't agree that it was crass stupidity, however I don't think it was malicious. He seems to like to play the fool and on this occasion I think he meant to send the video to a number of close personal friends but made a mistake and hit the wrong button. It was pretty insensitive for an MP to joke about an issue like this but as always there are many who want to jump on the bandwagon and shaft him. I'm sure that at the moment he's suffering worse that the criticisers as a result of this.
Pretty insensitive?  That has to be the understatement of 2018 to date.  As for your final comment, what about the victims' families?  Where do they sit in your league table of suffering?
I meant it was insensitive in the context of him just having a personal joke with a few close friends. As for my final comment, I'm not sure where reference was made to a league table of suffering. I can't speak for the families, nor can I speak for McIlduff, but I'd say he feels pretty bad over this. Has it added anything extra to tbe families suffering, I don't know.
How can you "just have a personal joke with a few close friends" about something like the Kingsmill massacre?  To then merely describe this as "insensitive" is beyond belief.
As for your second point, he probably feels "pretty bad" about being caught out.  If he was any sort of human being, he would not have made this little "joke", as you describe it, in the first place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 09:40:34 PM
People have joked in public about worse things.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 07, 2018, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 07:13:26 PM
Jesus man, hold back here. Nobody said he wasn't open to criticism. There's not one person that wouldn't agree that it was crass stupidity, however I don't think it was malicious. He seems to like to play the fool and on this occasion I think he meant to send the video to a number of close personal friends but made a mistake and hit the wrong button. It was pretty insensitive for an MP to joke about an issue like this but as always there are many who want to jump on the bandwagon and shaft him. I'm sure that at the moment he's suffering worse that the criticisers as a result of this.

"hit the wrong button"  Keep digging!

Kingsmill (like Enniskillen Birmingham etc) is such a stain on so called republicans that any man with an ounce of cop on should hear the alarm bells ringing when the word is mentioned
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 07, 2018, 09:45:12 PM
An obvious drop of the ball by Barry McElduff. He should have thought more.but it wasnt malicious. Just typical bandwagon jumpers down in the Free State.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 09:46:55 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 07, 2018, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 07:13:26 PM
Jesus man, hold back here. Nobody said he wasn't open to criticism. There's not one person that wouldn't agree that it was crass stupidity, however I don't think it was malicious. He seems to like to play the fool and on this occasion I think he meant to send the video to a number of close personal friends but made a mistake and hit the wrong button. It was pretty insensitive for an MP to joke about an issue like this but as always there are many who want to jump on the bandwagon and shaft him. I'm sure that at the moment he's suffering worse that the criticisers as a result of this.

"hit the wrong button"  Keep digging!

Kingsmill (like Enniskillen Birmingham etc) is such a stain on so called republicans that any man with an ounce of cop on should hear the alarm bells ringing when the word is mentioned
What do you mean by keep digging?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 07, 2018, 09:53:36 PM
Im sure in a day or two it will be Barry the victim
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 09:56:57 PM
Odd that the usual Free Staters are out in force here but they had nothing to say on the Stardust cover-up or the obstruction of justice in the Mary Boyle case.

Very odd that they will not dare criticise the establishment parties in the south.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on January 07, 2018, 10:01:16 PM
I hate the shinners but this was obviously not an attempt at argavating the Protestants. Barry hasn't prior history of that unlike so many of his DUP/sf contemporaries.

I'm kinda glad it happened to be honest, might damp down his bullshit attempts at humour. He's about as funny as a dose of the shits.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 07, 2018, 10:03:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 07, 2018, 10:01:16 PM
I hate the shinners but this was obviously not an attempt at argavating the Protestants. Barry hasn't prior history of that unlike so many of his DUP/sf contemporaries.

I'm kinda glad it happened to be honest, might damp down his bullshit attempts at humour. He's about as funny as a dose of the shits.

Yeah that's how I see it, especially his "humour"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 10:04:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 07, 2018, 10:01:16 PM
I hate the shinners but this was obviously not an attempt at argavating the Protestants. Barry hasn't prior history of that unlike so many of his DUP/sf contemporaries.

I'm kinda glad it happened to be honest, might damp down his bullshit attempts at humour. He's about as funny as a dose of the shits.
Good points.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:05:16 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 07, 2018, 09:45:12 PM
An obvious drop of the ball by Barry McElduff. He should have thought more.but it wasnt malicious. Just typical bandwagon jumpers down in the Free State.

I'm a republican from so called free state so you shove that comment up yet hole ya dopey bollox.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 07, 2018, 10:22:51 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 07, 2018, 08:08:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 07, 2018, 08:04:15 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 07, 2018, 07:57:34 PM
The question for anyone of us is.....
Do I believe he was making fun of the Kingsmill killings?

I don't believe he was making fun of the killings. I believe that the anniversary was not in his head the way the Loughgall killings would have been. It should have been however. He was acting the lig as usual with his 'entertaining' videos and made a terrible mistake. I am not a die hard Sinn Fein supporter. In fact I have never voted for Sinn Fein since 1981.

Before all hell broke loose, someone on his twitter account likened his joke image to the massacre making a wise crack about it. Barry 'Liked' it, but I think it is gone now as he deleted the post. Perhaps someone else kept the thread, because it is rather incriminating.

Looks like his bosses are at last taking it seriously:

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sinn-fein-leadership-to-meet-barry-mcelduff-1-8319628 (https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sinn-fein-leadership-to-meet-barry-mcelduff-1-8319628)

BTW the video was retweeted by O'Muilleor and his tweet has been captured.

Now O'Muilleor has decided it better to apologise for retweeting McElduff's video:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42596332?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_news_ni&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=northern_ireland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42596332?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_news_ni&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=northern_ireland)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.

None of them? Are you sure about that or is it that just another wild generalisation?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: phpearse on January 07, 2018, 10:45:40 PM
I have been buying Kingsmills 50/50 bread for years now and only when this faux outrage happened did I put the connection together. In fact, it is the only bread we have in the house. Take a quick look through his Facebook posts and there is a recent photo of him with a bottle of water on his head saying he can't find his water and he spent the past year posting photos of himself calling into various shops around the country looking for 99 ice creams and sprinkles! The only intention here was to post another silly photo of himself with something on his head in another shop in some part of the country. If he had posted a photo with a packet of Jaffa cakes on his head, the DUP/unionists would have taken offence. For some reason his posts that stuff in between travelling to Westminster, Brussels and Dublin.

At least wee Duff will have something else to talk now about rather than the goal he scored against Auger in the Championship in Beragh all those years ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: currychip on January 07, 2018, 11:05:48 PM
McElduff is a disgrace.  He knew exactly what he was doing.  But you still deflect.


quote author=Il Bomber Destro link=topic=15128.msg1766830#msg1766830 date=1515364818]
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 07, 2018, 11:06:07 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 06, 2018, 11:19:19 PM

It's not as if Wee Barry has a track record of posting pictures of his shopping with such a high degree of frequency that the instance of posting a picture of that product on that day with the writing the right way up for this to be explained away as some form of coincidence. This was a deliberate act

Except that he DOES have a track record of posting pictures of his shopping on his head.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS9vPeQWAAAXdqS?format=jpg)

What he does NOT have a track record in is mocking victims.

As someone who knows the man, I can assure you he would not have it in him to have done it deliberately. It was just another example of him making stupid f@$king videos thinking he is funny. I know him to be a good and decent man and I am a SF supporter but I do have to say that I believe his constant photos/videos of him putting things on his head and his COUNTLESS stupid f&@king videos about ice cream sprinkles make him hard to take seriously as an elected representative.

So to sum up: Was his video a deliberate attempt to offend victims? Not even a remote possibility.

Was the video another unfortunately timed episode of him acting like a child instead of a politician to be taken seriously? Yep.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 07, 2018, 11:16:12 PM
Again good points. I wasn't aware that he had a habit of dong this. I did see a thing about him having to sneak past the DUP offices in Stormont to get to the sweets machine but I didn't know about the other stuff. In that case I would be inclined to agree that this was not directed at the Kingsmill atrocity
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2018, 11:27:07 PM
Free State? who the f**k keeps calling it that, never when am out to i ever heard that word, but for some reason its used on here on a regular basis to rattle someone from down south, maybe these people are older than me but i never heard that term since the late `80s, i have no problem, calling up here the North or Northern Ireland, and the other way, down south, Ireland, the republic, but the free state? some people will always live in the past.

As for Barry he has to go, for stupidity if anything
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on January 07, 2018, 11:32:28 PM
Barry is to meet SF leaders tomorrow.Here's hoping he doesn't turn up in an O'Neills jersey eating a McDonald's takeaway
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 07, 2018, 11:46:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 07, 2018, 11:06:07 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 06, 2018, 11:19:19 PM

It's not as if Wee Barry has a track record of posting pictures of his shopping with such a high degree of frequency that the instance of posting a picture of that product on that day with the writing the right way up for this to be explained away as some form of coincidence. This was a deliberate act

Except that he DOES have a track record of posting pictures of his shopping on his head.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS9vPeQWAAAXdqS?format=jpg)

What he does NOT have a track record in is mocking victims.

As someone who knows the man, I can assure you he would not have it in him to have done it deliberately. It was just another example of him making stupid f@$king videos thinking he is funny. I know him to be a good and decent man and I am a SF supporter but I do have to say that I believe his constant photos/videos of him putting things on his head and his COUNTLESS stupid f&@king videos about ice cream sprinkles make him hard to take seriously as an elected representative.

So to sum up: Was his video a deliberate attempt to offend victims? Not even a remote possibility.

Was the video another unfortunately timed episode of him acting like a child instead of a politician to be taken seriously? Yep.

i'd like to know the dates of these previous pictures, i think we can work out then if this was planned or not  ;)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 12:01:17 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:05:16 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 07, 2018, 09:45:12 PM
An obvious drop of the ball by Barry McElduff. He should have thought more.but it wasnt malicious. Just typical bandwagon jumpers down in the Free State.

I'm a republican from so called free state so you shove that comment up yet hole ya dopey bollox.

Should have been more specific... typical blue shirt bandwagon jumpers down in the free state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on January 08, 2018, 12:52:30 AM
f**k you shinnerbots are awful f**king precious about criticism directed towards your halfwit overlords.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 08, 2018, 03:22:07 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 07, 2018, 11:32:28 PM
Barry is to meet SF leaders tomorrow.Here's hoping he doesn't turn up in an O'Neills jersey eating a McDonald's takeaway
He is gone past his sell by date now so all that is needed is some way to move him offside
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 07:53:43 AM
"Mr McElduff told the Belfast Telegraph: "I genuinely had no idea of the brand name of the bread I was purchasing. It was late at night in the store and there were only a few loaves left on the shelves.

"I had no sense that it was a Kingsmill loaf, it could easily have been Hovis. I checked the date of the loaf but nothing else."

He insisted he had no idea it was the anniversary of the massacre."

He always balances bread on his head to check for toastiness
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 08:15:26 AM
When the SDLP were top dog they had quality through the ranks. The Shinners do not. I wonder why. Hmmm
McElduff is probably a great bunch of lads but would he cut the mustard in any other party (except Fianna Fail) ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.

None of them? Are you sure about that or is it that just another wild generalisation?

I had two threads on here recently on topical issues in the Mary Boyle and Stardust cases. There was no uptake from the usual Free Staters who will be hand wringing and giving their usual Screaming Mary impressions when a spec of dirt lands of FF.

You won't have to go back to far on the General Discussion forum to find them and offer your opinion, that's if you want to?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:46:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 08:15:26 AM
When the SDLP were top dog they had quality through the ranks. The Shinners do not. I wonder why. Hmmm
McElduff is probably a great bunch of lads but would he cut the mustard in any other party (except Fianna Fail) ?

When the SDLP were in power, they never made any sort of tangible progress for nationalists.

They were not known as the Stoop Down Low Party for nothing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 08:52:46 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.

None of them? Are you sure about that or is it that just another wild generalisation?

I had two threads on here recently on topical issues in the Mary Boyle and Stardust cases. There was no uptake from the usual Free Staters who will be hand wringing and giving their usual Screaming Mary impressions when a spec of dirt lands of FF.

You won't have to go back to far on the General Discussion forum to find them and offer your opinion, that's if you want to?

To be honest I am not overly familiar with either case. I try not to comment on stories I know nothing about. Now you will see plenty of occasions where I have criticized FF, FG and Southern Government on a number of issues. I have no love for either of those parties and wouldn't vote for either if they were the only two in Ireland.

But that is all totally irrelevant to this case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on January 08, 2018, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:46:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 08:15:26 AM
When the SDLP were top dog they had quality through the ranks. The Shinners do not. I wonder why. Hmmm
McElduff is probably a great bunch of lads but would he cut the mustard in any other party (except Fianna Fail) ?

When the SDLP were in power, they never made any sort of tangible progress for nationalists.

They were not known as the Stoop Down Low Party for nothing.

You must have missed civil rights then the ceasefire. Sleeping?

Just keep rewriting history hi.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:56:29 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 08:52:46 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.

None of them? Are you sure about that or is it that just another wild generalisation?

I had two threads on here recently on topical issues in the Mary Boyle and Stardust cases. There was no uptake from the usual Free Staters who will be hand wringing and giving their usual Screaming Mary impressions when a spec of dirt lands of FF.

You won't have to go back to far on the General Discussion forum to find them and offer your opinion, that's if you want to?

To be honest I am not overly familiar with either case. I try not to comment on stories I know nothing about. Now you will see plenty of occasions where I have criticized FF, FG and Southern Government on a number of issues. I have no love for either of those parties and wouldn't vote for either if they were the only two in Ireland.

But that is all totally irrelevant to this case.

I don't think it's irrelevant to point that most of the Free Staters throwing mud in these type of threads are the ones who can't bring themselves to comment on the disgraceful actions of their own establishment parties. I think it's important in terms of balance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:59:43 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 08, 2018, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:46:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 08:15:26 AM
When the SDLP were top dog they had quality through the ranks. The Shinners do not. I wonder why. Hmmm
McElduff is probably a great bunch of lads but would he cut the mustard in any other party (except Fianna Fail) ?

When the SDLP were in power, they never made any sort of tangible progress for nationalists.

They were not known as the Stoop Down Low Party for nothing.

You must have missed civil rights then the ceasefire. Sleeping?

Just keep rewriting history hi.

Civil Rights? How did that go?

There's a reason the SDLP have nearly died out, they were spineless quasi-unionists. For as good a man as Hume was, he had no problem calling for internment against his own nationalist community.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 08, 2018, 09:04:11 AM
Shinnerbots must be on double time since the weekend
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 09:11:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:56:29 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 08:52:46 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.

None of them? Are you sure about that or is it that just another wild generalisation?

I had two threads on here recently on topical issues in the Mary Boyle and Stardust cases. There was no uptake from the usual Free Staters who will be hand wringing and giving their usual Screaming Mary impressions when a spec of dirt lands of FF.

You won't have to go back to far on the General Discussion forum to find them and offer your opinion, that's if you want to?

To be honest I am not overly familiar with either case. I try not to comment on stories I know nothing about. Now you will see plenty of occasions where I have criticized FF, FG and Southern Government on a number of issues. I have no love for either of those parties and wouldn't vote for either if they were the only two in Ireland.

But that is all totally irrelevant to this case.

I don't think it's irrelevant to point that most of the Free Staters throwing mud in these type of threads are the ones who can't bring themselves to comment on the disgraceful actions of their own establishment parties. I think it's important in terms of balance.
That is nonsense
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 09:14:13 AM
The latest on the sit-ee-ay-shun

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-barry-mcelduffs-kingsmill-video-tweet-was-inexcusable-and-indefensible-36467209.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on January 08, 2018, 09:14:18 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:59:43 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 08, 2018, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:46:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 08:15:26 AM
When the SDLP were top dog they had quality through the ranks. The Shinners do not. I wonder why. Hmmm
McElduff is probably a great bunch of lads but would he cut the mustard in any other party (except Fianna Fail) ?

When the SDLP were in power, they never made any sort of tangible progress for nationalists.

They were not known as the Stoop Down Low Party for nothing.

You must have missed civil rights then the ceasefire. Sleeping?

Just keep rewriting history hi.

Civil Rights? How did that go?

There's a reason the SDLP have nearly died out, they were spineless quasi-unionists. For as good a man as Hume was, he had no problem calling for internment against his own nationalist community.

So you genuinely don't believe that the SDLP's representation of Northern Ireland's catholics was the reason for equality in the region?

Or is it that you believe that there's still 1960s style levels of inequality?

Or because a few Protestants have too jobs in NiCS that we are still been treated like shit?

——

SDLP  are a moribund party because they were formed with a single purpose in mind: civil rights for Catholics. Since that goal has been achieved they have been unable to find a purpose emotive enough to campaign successfully for votes in the secular cesspit that is NI.

——

You are doing both Sinn Fein and yourself a serious disservice to try to discredit SDLP's role in improving life for nationalists in NI. This isn't the 1920s and you can't whitewash history to your narrative because no other one exists.. The internet and digitised press were actually a thing when the ceasefire was delivered, by the SDLp.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:22:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 09:11:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:56:29 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 08:52:46 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.

None of them? Are you sure about that or is it that just another wild generalisation?

I had two threads on here recently on topical issues in the Mary Boyle and Stardust cases. There was no uptake from the usual Free Staters who will be hand wringing and giving their usual Screaming Mary impressions when a spec of dirt lands of FF.

You won't have to go back to far on the General Discussion forum to find them and offer your opinion, that's if you want to?

To be honest I am not overly familiar with either case. I try not to comment on stories I know nothing about. Now you will see plenty of occasions where I have criticized FF, FG and Southern Government on a number of issues. I have no love for either of those parties and wouldn't vote for either if they were the only two in Ireland.

But that is all totally irrelevant to this case.

I don't think it's irrelevant to point that most of the Free Staters throwing mud in these type of threads are the ones who can't bring themselves to comment on the disgraceful actions of their own establishment parties. I think it's important in terms of balance.
That is nonsense

Nonsense to point out that the usual Free State suspects slinging mud at SF are nowhere to be seen when the establishment parties of their own parties are alleged to have been involved in obstructing justice in the disappearance of a 6 year old, the obstruction of justice in bringing the responsible parties of a nightclub fire that killed 39 people to account, the smear campaign of a Garda whistleblower falsely making campaigns that he was a child molester.

Very little condemnation from those usual suspects there. And as much as you might like to quell spotlight on double standards, it won't work with me. The usual suspects were nowhere to be seen on the Stardust and Mary Boyle thread and I think we can see their faux outrage for all it is. A SF MLA who makes a crass and insensitive post about the murders of the family in a state outside theirs is apparently more worthy of outrage than a FF councillor obstructing Gardai from questioning the prime suspect in the disappearance of a 6 year old girl in their own state.

It seems to me they find the latter acceptable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:25:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 08, 2018, 09:14:18 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:59:43 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 08, 2018, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:46:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 08:15:26 AM
When the SDLP were top dog they had quality through the ranks. The Shinners do not. I wonder why. Hmmm
McElduff is probably a great bunch of lads but would he cut the mustard in any other party (except Fianna Fail) ?

When the SDLP were in power, they never made any sort of tangible progress for nationalists.

They were not known as the Stoop Down Low Party for nothing.

You must have missed civil rights then the ceasefire. Sleeping?

Just keep rewriting history hi.

Civil Rights? How did that go?

There's a reason the SDLP have nearly died out, they were spineless quasi-unionists. For as good a man as Hume was, he had no problem calling for internment against his own nationalist community.

So you genuinely don't believe that the SDLP's representation of Northern Ireland's catholics was the reason for equality in the region?

Or is it that you believe that there's still 1960s style levels of inequality?

Or because a few Protestants have too jobs in NiCS that we are still been treated like shit?

——

SDLP  are a moribund party because they were formed with a single purpose in mind: civil rights for Catholics. Since that goal has been achieved they have been unable to find a purpose emotive enough to campaign successfully for votes in the secular cesspit that is NI.

——

You are doing both Sinn Fein and yourself a serious disservice to try to discredit SDLP's role in improving life for nationalists in NI. This isn't the 1920s and you can't whitewash history to your narrative because no other one exists.. The internet and digitised press were actually a thing when the ceasefire was delivered, by the SDLp.

I believe the Civil Rights movement was going to achieve nothing. The Brits weren't too bothered about nationalists being burned out of their homes or being bet to death by members of the police force. There's one thing history has taught us when it comes to the Brits in Ireland that will make them listen and that was war.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 09:27:11 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:22:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 09:11:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:56:29 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 08:52:46 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.

None of them? Are you sure about that or is it that just another wild generalisation?

I had two threads on here recently on topical issues in the Mary Boyle and Stardust cases. There was no uptake from the usual Free Staters who will be hand wringing and giving their usual Screaming Mary impressions when a spec of dirt lands of FF.

You won't have to go back to far on the General Discussion forum to find them and offer your opinion, that's if you want to?

To be honest I am not overly familiar with either case. I try not to comment on stories I know nothing about. Now you will see plenty of occasions where I have criticized FF, FG and Southern Government on a number of issues. I have no love for either of those parties and wouldn't vote for either if they were the only two in Ireland.

But that is all totally irrelevant to this case.

I don't think it's irrelevant to point that most of the Free Staters throwing mud in these type of threads are the ones who can't bring themselves to comment on the disgraceful actions of their own establishment parties. I think it's important in terms of balance.
That is nonsense

Nonsense to point out that the usual Free State suspects slinging mud at SF are nowhere to be seen when the establishment parties of their own parties are alleged to have been involved in obstructing justice in the disappearance of a 6 year old, the obstruction of justice in bringing the responsible parties of a nightclub fire that killed 39 people to account, the smear campaign of a Garda whistleblower falsely making campaigns that he was a child molester.

Very little condemnation from those usual suspects there. And as much as you might like to quell spotlight on double standards, it won't work with me. The usual suspects were nowhere to be seen on the Stardust and Mary Boyle thread and I think we can see their faux outrage for all it is. A SF MLA who makes a crass and insensitive post about the murders of the family in a state outside theirs is apparently more worthy of outrage than a FF councillor obstructing Gardai from questioning the prime suspect in the disappearance of a 6 year old girl in their own state.

It seems to me they find the latter acceptable.
It is nonsense. It's like saying you can't comment on the US unless you are from Louisiana.
Who gets to decide which threads are appropriate? If someone isn't interested in AS Roma can they say anything?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 08, 2018, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:22:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 09:11:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:56:29 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 08:52:46 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.

None of them? Are you sure about that or is it that just another wild generalisation?

I had two threads on here recently on topical issues in the Mary Boyle and Stardust cases. There was no uptake from the usual Free Staters who will be hand wringing and giving their usual Screaming Mary impressions when a spec of dirt lands of FF.

You won't have to go back to far on the General Discussion forum to find them and offer your opinion, that's if you want to?

To be honest I am not overly familiar with either case. I try not to comment on stories I know nothing about. Now you will see plenty of occasions where I have criticized FF, FG and Southern Government on a number of issues. I have no love for either of those parties and wouldn't vote for either if they were the only two in Ireland.

But that is all totally irrelevant to this case.

I don't think it's irrelevant to point that most of the Free Staters throwing mud in these type of threads are the ones who can't bring themselves to comment on the disgraceful actions of their own establishment parties. I think it's important in terms of balance.
That is nonsense

Nonsense to point out that the usual Free State suspects slinging mud at SF are nowhere to be seen when the establishment parties of their own parties are alleged to have been involved in obstructing justice in the disappearance of a 6 year old, the obstruction of justice in bringing the responsible parties of a nightclub fire that killed 39 people to account, the smear campaign of a Garda whistleblower falsely making campaigns that he was a child molester.

Very little condemnation from those usual suspects there. And as much as you might like to quell spotlight on double standards, it won't work with me. The usual suspects were nowhere to be seen on the Stardust and Mary Boyle thread and I think we can see their faux outrage for all it is. A SF MLA who makes a crass and insensitive post about the murders of the family in a state outside theirs is apparently more worthy of outrage than a FF councillor obstructing Gardai from questioning the prime suspect in the disappearance of a 6 year old girl in their own state.

It seems to me they find the latter acceptable.

Your diversionary tactics aren't working.
There's probably more brains in the loaf of bread than between your man's ears
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:35:46 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 09:27:11 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:22:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 09:11:08 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:56:29 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 08:52:46 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 07, 2018, 10:13:02 PM
Let me tell you defenders of this crap something else. There will be no united Ireland without a proportion of current day unionists supporting it. We have that opportunity now due to the calamity of Brexit. United Ireland might make some financial/economic sense to middle ground unionists. The old guard in Republican circles are put out to pasture which makes it a bit easier to do for them too. Things are moving into place. And then you have a total f**king moron like this guy doing this. Unionists need to see that there losses will be respected in any new republic. Anyone who calls themselves a republican should understand that.

Sinn Fein leadership need to toss this fool out on his hole and show that while Arlene and her cronies have no shame, republicans will deal with this stuff. I am ashamed to see so many republicans defending this and reverting to "whataboutery" as a defense. Anyone who questions it is a free stater etc etc. Cop the f**k on.

What is important is balance and I think it's very relevant that those Free Staters who come on to express their outrage here are usually the same ones mentioned when it comes to commenting on the disgusting behaviour and obstruction of justice of the establishment parties in their own state.

Play the ball not the man

I've made my comments on this matter. I'm just pointing out the selective outrage from free staters, but there seems to be an agenda to quell this being pointed out.

You know what outrages all free staters? Tell me have I selective outrage too. Curious as to your assessment of this free stater.

I find it odd that a SF MLA making a crass social media post about the Kingsmill massacre, intended or unintended, is something that draws more outrage from the Free Staters than the injustices that have the fingerpints of the Free State establishement parties all over them of late. These are also topical issues such as the Mary Boyle case and the Stardust families. Yet none of those posters could muster any disgust about the role of the parties in that thread.

None of them? Are you sure about that or is it that just another wild generalisation?

I had two threads on here recently on topical issues in the Mary Boyle and Stardust cases. There was no uptake from the usual Free Staters who will be hand wringing and giving their usual Screaming Mary impressions when a spec of dirt lands of FF.

You won't have to go back to far on the General Discussion forum to find them and offer your opinion, that's if you want to?

To be honest I am not overly familiar with either case. I try not to comment on stories I know nothing about. Now you will see plenty of occasions where I have criticized FF, FG and Southern Government on a number of issues. I have no love for either of those parties and wouldn't vote for either if they were the only two in Ireland.

But that is all totally irrelevant to this case.

I don't think it's irrelevant to point that most of the Free Staters throwing mud in these type of threads are the ones who can't bring themselves to comment on the disgraceful actions of their own establishment parties. I think it's important in terms of balance.
That is nonsense

Nonsense to point out that the usual Free State suspects slinging mud at SF are nowhere to be seen when the establishment parties of their own parties are alleged to have been involved in obstructing justice in the disappearance of a 6 year old, the obstruction of justice in bringing the responsible parties of a nightclub fire that killed 39 people to account, the smear campaign of a Garda whistleblower falsely making campaigns that he was a child molester.

Very little condemnation from those usual suspects there. And as much as you might like to quell spotlight on double standards, it won't work with me. The usual suspects were nowhere to be seen on the Stardust and Mary Boyle thread and I think we can see their faux outrage for all it is. A SF MLA who makes a crass and insensitive post about the murders of the family in a state outside theirs is apparently more worthy of outrage than a FF councillor obstructing Gardai from questioning the prime suspect in the disappearance of a 6 year old girl in their own state.

It seems to me they find the latter acceptable.
It is nonsense. It's like saying you can't comment on the US unless you are from Louisiana.
Who gets to decide which threads are appropriate? If someone isn't interested in AS Roma can they say anything?

What I'm saying is that those Free Staters who come in showing their outrage and anger are very easy to spot in how disingenuous they are. They were nowhere to be seen when their own establishment parties were involved in far more serious and more disgraceful actions. I'm commenting on the double standards displayed, you don't want that commentary appearing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 09:39:54 AM
bomber,

do you think Mcelduff is blame free or a complete tool ???

forget diversionary answers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 08, 2018, 09:44:41 AM
I know Barry and have found him to be very helpful in the past but this was just plain stupid and unfortunately West Tyrone is going to loose a hard working MP and a man who has stood up for the nationalist people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:22 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 09:39:54 AM
bomber,

do you think Mcelduff is blame free or a complete tool ???

forget diversionary answers

I commented on this a few pages back.

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 07, 2018, 12:56:11 PM
It doesn't look good and you can understand the anger the Kingsmill families will feel but the opportunistic way the usual elements have jumped on the offended bus is nauseating.

Only McElduff will know whether it was an accident or not. If he's sincere in his apologies and the families can accept that then a line should be drawn under it.

Ultimately it will be the victims and their families who should be listened to on this, if they feel he is sincere and it was an honest mistake then a line should be drawn under it. If not, then it's hard to see how he can keep his position.

Only McElduff will know what his motivations were.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 09:52:27 AM
fair enough

there has been so many posts since I didnt cop that responser
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on January 08, 2018, 09:55:21 AM
It's a bad sign when ur best defence is that ur a gobshite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:00:51 AM
I wonder are those who defended RTE in their crass sketch on Mickey Harte in the aftermath of his daughter's death going to apply their same standards here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:01:42 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 06, 2018, 09:43:45 PM
I don't believe Mc Elduff did this deliberately.What was there to be gained from doing so? It's just he fancies himself as a bit of a comedian,which he never will be.

It was a godsend for Unionist politicians in terms of point scoring though.
On balance Tony I would agree with you. I'm struck though at how stupid he has been, if he didn't get the connection he should have. I am also struck by the hypocrisy of both Unionist and SDLP politicians and the fact that as the Daithi McKay incident also shows the Shinners are expected to set a much higher bar than other political parties. There are numerous examples of similarly insensitive words and actions by unionists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 08, 2018, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 07, 2018, 11:06:07 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 06, 2018, 11:19:19 PM

It's not as if Wee Barry has a track record of posting pictures of his shopping with such a high degree of frequency that the instance of posting a picture of that product on that day with the writing the right way up for this to be explained away as some form of coincidence. This was a deliberate act

Except that he DOES have a track record of posting pictures of his shopping on his head.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS9vPeQWAAAXdqS?format=jpg)

What he does NOT have a track record in is mocking victims.

As someone who knows the man, I can assure you he would not have it in him to have done it deliberately. It was just another example of him making stupid f@$king videos thinking he is funny. I know him to be a good and decent man and I am a SF supporter but I do have to say that I believe his constant photos/videos of him putting things on his head and his COUNTLESS stupid f&@king videos about ice cream sprinkles make him hard to take seriously as an elected representative.

So to sum up: Was his video a deliberate attempt to offend victims? Not even a remote possibility.

Was the video another unfortunately timed episode of him acting like a child instead of a politician to be taken seriously? Yep.

Looks like he's a bigger f**king eejit than I thought he was!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on January 08, 2018, 10:18:55 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 07, 2018, 11:06:07 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 06, 2018, 11:19:19 PM

It's not as if Wee Barry has a track record of posting pictures of his shopping with such a high degree of frequency that the instance of posting a picture of that product on that day with the writing the right way up for this to be explained away as some form of coincidence. This was a deliberate act

Except that he DOES have a track record of posting pictures of his shopping on his head.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS9vPeQWAAAXdqS?format=jpg)

What he does NOT have a track record in is mocking victims.

As someone who knows the man, I can assure you he would not have it in him to have done it deliberately. It was just another example of him making stupid f@$king videos thinking he is funny. I know him to be a good and decent man and I am a SF supporter but I do have to say that I believe his constant photos/videos of him putting things on his head and his COUNTLESS stupid f&@king videos about ice cream sprinkles make him hard to take seriously as an elected representative.

So to sum up: Was his video a deliberate attempt to offend victims? Not even a remote possibility.

Was the video another unfortunately timed episode of him acting like a child instead of a politician to be taken seriously? Yep.

I would have to agree with this post.

Ridiculously stupid- Yep
intentionally offensive- I dont think so

It is a bizarre coincidence though

The videos are all cringe worthy and I would rather any elected politician acted with a bit more sense, raher than playing the class clown.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.
SF should cop on and stop moaning about having always to act to a higher set of principles than everyone else. It's a joke.
BTW Bomber you never condemned the 1641 massacres in Ballymacash cash and carry so how can you point the finger at southerners ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:50:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.
SF should cop on and stop moaning about having always to act to a higher set of principles than everyone else. It's a joke.
BTW Bomber you never condemned the 1641 massacres in Ballymacash cash and carry so how can you point the finger at southerners ?

But they have to.

Have any of the Free Staters ever reviled in horror at what they did to the Protestants down in Dunmanway in Cork?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 11:02:23 AM
Free Staters are all now dead.
Has Bombast taken over the mantle of the most brain washed Shinnerbot on GAAboard?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 11:05:36 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 11:02:23 AM
Free Staters are all now dead.
Has Bombast taken over the mantle of the most brain washed Shinnerbot on GAAboard?

Coming from a brain washed Free Stater, I'll take that as a compliment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 08, 2018, 11:09:12 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 11:05:36 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 11:02:23 AM
Free Staters are all now dead.
Has Bombast taken over the mantle of the most brain washed Shinnerbot on GAAboard?

Coming from a brain washed Free Stater, I'll take that as a compliment.

What's a Free Stater?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: stephenite on January 08, 2018, 11:13:39 AM
Why does he put things on his head?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

A sweeping generalisation it may be but it would apply to the vast majority of the Free State population. The elected governments completely abandoned Northern nationalists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:45:14 AM
elected governments yes I agree, but I know so many who gave years of their prime in the 1950s in the belief that they could reunite the 32 counties that it shouldnt be airbrushed from any discussion on the subject,

would you agree Northern Nationalists took a long time to get organised and attempt to remove the occupiers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: TabClear on January 08, 2018, 11:45:55 AM
Quote from: stephenite on January 08, 2018, 11:13:39 AM
Why does he put things on his head?

Because he is a politician in Northern Ireland and being a halfwit appears to be a prerequisite for that position.

That being said, people who have dealt with him would say that he is one of the better local politicians  in terms of getting things done in the local area. Its a pity he felt the need to constantly post his moronic videos. And I do not mean the latest one.  Whether he did it deliberately or not only he knows although it is a remarkable set of coincidences if he didnt, but regardless, his previous "publications" were pointless, idiotic nonsense as well. Not something you would expect from an elected representative.

Judging by the Sinn Fein statement he is gone after he meets the leadership this afternoon.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:50:26 AM
with you on that

the whole buffoonery on social media should be a red flag that an incident like the last one was only around the corner even if no malice was intended.

was he hiding the day brains were handed out ??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 11:57:23 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:45:14 AM
elected governments yes I agree, but I know so many who gave years of their prime in the 1950s in the belief that they could reunite the 32 counties that it shouldnt be airbrushed from any discussion on the subject,

would you agree Northern Nationalists took a long time to get organised and attempt to remove the occupiers

There are people from the 26 who have done, do and will continute to do an awful lot for northern nationalists but they are a very small minority and I think they would echo my views on their own state and the indifference it has given to the plight of Northern Nationalist.

If I was from the Free State then I would feel great shame about how the state has abandoned northern nationalists over the years. They seem to go on the offensive when it comes with dealing with that shame though which is even sadder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 12:00:32 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 11:57:23 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:45:14 AM
elected governments yes I agree, but I know so many who gave years of their prime in the 1950s in the belief that they could reunite the 32 counties that it shouldnt be airbrushed from any discussion on the subject,

would you agree Northern Nationalists took a long time to get organised and attempt to remove the occupiers

There are people from the 26 who have done, do and will continute to do an awful lot for northern nationalists but they are a very small minority and I think they would echo my views on their own state and the indifference it has given to the plight of Northern Nationalist.

If I was from the Free State then I would feel great shame about how the state has abandoned northern nationalists over the years. They seem to go on the offensive when it comes with dealing with that shame though which is even sadder.
So why do you want to rejoin with these people who treated you so callously ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 12:04:47 PM
Nobody under 80 is "from the Free State (sic)".
This thread is about Sinn Féin  and has come to life because of Mr McElduff and his crass/stupid/buffoon behaviour.
Bombast then launches onto his favourite rants trying to deflect from his favourite party's village eejit/nasty cnut.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 12:09:02 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 11:57:23 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:45:14 AM
elected governments yes I agree, but I know so many who gave years of their prime in the 1950s in the belief that they could reunite the 32 counties that it shouldnt be airbrushed from any discussion on the subject,

would you agree Northern Nationalists took a long time to get organised and attempt to remove the occupiers

There are people from the 26 who have done, do and will continute to do an awful lot for northern nationalists but they are a very small minority and I think they would echo my views on their own state and the indifference it has given to the plight of Northern Nationalist.



If I was from the Free State then I would feel great shame about how the state has abandoned northern nationalists over the years. They seem to go on the offensive when it comes with dealing with that shame though which is even sadder.


Bomber

did Northern nationalists do enough pre the late 1960s to break free ?????
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 08, 2018, 12:20:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 11:57:23 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:45:14 AM
elected governments yes I agree, but I know so many who gave years of their prime in the 1950s in the belief that they could reunite the 32 counties that it shouldnt be airbrushed from any discussion on the subject,

would you agree Northern Nationalists took a long time to get organised and attempt to remove the occupiers

There are people from the 26 who have done, do and will continute to do an awful lot for northern nationalists but they are a very small minority and I think they would echo my views on their own state and the indifference it has given to the plight of Northern Nationalist.

If I was from the Free State then I would feel great shame about how the state has abandoned northern nationalists over the years. They seem to go on the offensive when it comes with dealing with that shame though which is even sadder.

You're permanently on the offensive so by your own logic, you must be a tragic case at this stage!
It's a strange tactic I must admit - trying to insult your countrymen into sharing your views...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 12:21:48 PM
those conceptually he wants to be one with !!!!!!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 12:28:52 PM
People like Bombast would turn an awful lot of 26 Co Voters into No voters if/when the Unity referendum takes place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2018, 12:41:40 PM
Bomber; the republican who calls down south the free state!!! With people like you ranting and raving about things down south from 40yrs ago, wonder do you condemn half the crap happened up here in the same time period all for looking to rejoin your so called free staters!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Square Ball on January 08, 2018, 12:59:10 PM
Only one person knows whether or not the video was intentional or not. I think his hours are numbered
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 08, 2018, 01:19:29 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 07, 2018, 11:06:07 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 06, 2018, 11:19:19 PM

It's not as if Wee Barry has a track record of posting pictures of his shopping with such a high degree of frequency that the instance of posting a picture of that product on that day with the writing the right way up for this to be explained away as some form of coincidence. This was a deliberate act

Except that he DOES have a track record of posting pictures of his shopping on his head.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS9vPeQWAAAXdqS?format=jpg)

What he does NOT have a track record in is mocking victims.

As someone who knows the man, I can assure you he would not have it in him to have done it deliberately. It was just another example of him making stupid f@$king videos thinking he is funny. I know him to be a good and decent man and I am a SF supporter but I do have to say that I believe his constant photos/videos of him putting things on his head and his COUNTLESS stupid f&@king videos about ice cream sprinkles make him hard to take seriously as an elected representative.

So to sum up: Was his video a deliberate attempt to offend victims? Not even a remote possibility.

Was the video another unfortunately timed episode of him acting like a child instead of a politician to be taken seriously? Yep.

Just to add to my post above - and another reason why I am under no doubt what-so-ever that this was unintentional: the video was on twitter for something like 36 hours before ANYONE copped on to it being the anniversary of Kingsmills - and today those who are tripping over themselves to suggest that Barry is 'bound to have known it was the anniversary' clearly didn't know it themselves until they read about the connection 36 hours after the event.

As a case in point - that nauseatingly smarmy, obnoxious little toerag Daniel McCrossan of the West Tyrone SDLP was the only politician to even reply to the original video after it was posted - and all he posted was ' ::)' - so it's abundantly clear that he himself had no idea it was the Kingsmills anniversary; yet 36 odd hours later, when someone did make a connection, onto the bandwagon Daniel hops as fast as he possibly can, and this morning he's all over Radio Ulster, claiming that there's just no way that Barry didn't know when he posted it that it was the anniversary. Too many lying, hypocritical pricks like Daniel out there trying to use victims for some of the lowest political point scoring.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seany on January 08, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
Fully agree.  There are people dancing on graves today, but it's not McElduff, but those who are using this episode to politically point score.  Tyrone people won't forgive people like McCrossan. If there was an election today, Barry would increase his vote. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 01:51:03 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2018, 12:41:40 PM
Bomber; the republican who calls down south the free state!!! With people like you ranting and raving about things down south from 40yrs ago, wonder do you condemn half the crap happened up here in the same time period all for looking to rejoin your so called free staters!

I think both the Free State and the occupied British statelet up north have both been abhorrent failures.

Bad things happen in war, if you research your history you will see there were many abhorrent atrocities carried out by republicans in the War of Independence and by both sides in the Irish Civil War, as there were by republicans in The Troubles - but that's war. It's inevitable horrible things will happen. The bigger question is why the British and Free State government allowed the situation to spiral out of control where nationalist were subject to horrendous and violent sectarianism and nobody to defend them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 12:28:52 PM
People like Bombast would turn an awful lot of 26 Co Voters into No voters if/when the Unity referendum takes place.

It doesn't take me to do that. When guys like you continue to vote (in full knowledge) for right wing parties up to their necks in smear, corruption, cronyism and obstructing justice, there is nothing that can be done with you. You would vote no, you would have nothing in common with a person who has sacrificed something for the betterment of their people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:12:22 PM
Quoteor right wing parties up to their necks in smear, corruption, cronyism and obstructing justice

Oh the irony!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 02:14:55 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 08, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
Fully agree.  There are people dancing on graves today, but it's not McElduff, but those who are using this episode to politically point score.  Tyrone people won't forgive people like McCrossan. If there was an election today, Barry would increase his vote.
I agree that there are many jumping on the bandwagon, I also don't believe it was a deliberate act, I do despair at the antics of some elected politicians and Barry McElduff's twitter posts are not funny and unbecoming a person in his position. As a politician though he should have been aware that his use of anything with the kingsmill name on it irrespective of timing was going to play badly. The fact that it took so long for people to notice indicates the falseness of a lot of outrage. I was amused by the threats of repercussions from Dodds though. What part of nationalism's rejection of Stormont does he fall to understand?

On a slightly different tack, we also had Colm Eastwood calling for Stormont to reform to take health. Christ Jesus Almighty Stormont has had 10 years at least to sort this out and failed because our politicians will not take hard decisions around the reorganisation of the whole health system because voters don't like the outcomes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:12:22 PM
Quoteor right wing parties up to their necks in smear, corruption, cronyism and obstructing justice

Oh the irony!

The irony.

Yes the irony. Free Staters don't like the truth that they consistently vote in white collar criminals overwhelmingly. Wasn't Albert Reynolds up to his neck in it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:27:55 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 08, 2018, 12:20:45 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 11:57:23 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:45:14 AM
elected governments yes I agree, but I know so many who gave years of their prime in the 1950s in the belief that they could reunite the 32 counties that it shouldnt be airbrushed from any discussion on the subject,

would you agree Northern Nationalists took a long time to get organised and attempt to remove the occupiers

There are people from the 26 who have done, do and will continute to do an awful lot for northern nationalists but they are a very small minority and I think they would echo my views on their own state and the indifference it has given to the plight of Northern Nationalist.

If I was from the Free State then I would feel great shame about how the state has abandoned northern nationalists over the years. They seem to go on the offensive when it comes with dealing with that shame though which is even sadder.

You're permanently on the offensive so by your own logic, you must be a tragic case at this stage!
It's a strange tactic I must admit - trying to insult your countrymen into sharing your views...

You feel insulted by having your double standards called out?

Very odd, ashamed would be a more natural response.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:31:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:12:22 PM
Quoteor right wing parties up to their necks in smear, corruption, cronyism and obstructing justice

Oh the irony!

The irony.

Yes the irony. Free Staters don't like the truth that they consistently vote in white collar criminals overwhelmingly. Wasn't Albert Reynolds up to his neck in it?

A few alleged murderers of so-called left wing parties have been voted in as well to Dáil Eireann in my lifetime........hence the irony. And why bring up Albert Reynold? What's your point here?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on January 08, 2018, 02:35:17 PM
In summary McElduff is a decent guy, total eejit who should have known better but because he was too busy acting the eejit on social will/ should pay for it with his job. He has given the Unionists the perfect distraction to their short comings.

The outrage it totally faux but a guy who is meant to represent his constituents should know better and not left himself or his party open for this type of criticism.

End of the day he made this mess himself and will pay for it.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:31:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:12:22 PM
Quoteor right wing parties up to their necks in smear, corruption, cronyism and obstructing justice

Oh the irony!

The irony.

Yes the irony. Free Staters don't like the truth that they consistently vote in white collar criminals overwhelmingly. Wasn't Albert Reynolds up to his neck in it?

A few alleged murderers of so-called left wing parties have been voted in as well to Dáil Eireann in my lifetime........hence the irony. And why bring up Albert Reynold? What's your point here?

Plenty of gun men have represented Fiann Fail and Fine Gael in government, fascists, gangsters and fraudsters too have represented these parties.

The problem is you only want to see things one way. Tell me why that is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:12:22 PM
Quoteor right wing parties up to their necks in smear, corruption, cronyism and obstructing justice

Oh the irony!

The irony.

Yes the irony. Free Staters don't like the truth that they consistently vote in white collar criminals overwhelmingly. Wasn't Albert Reynolds up to his neck in it?
There is small zone of purity somewhere in the Sperrins. And the rest of the world is rancid.
I bet Bomber read a lot of asterix as a child.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:12:22 PM
Quoteor right wing parties up to their necks in smear, corruption, cronyism and obstructing justice

Oh the irony!

The irony.

Yes the irony. Free Staters don't like the truth that they consistently vote in white collar criminals overwhelmingly. Wasn't Albert Reynolds up to his neck in it?
There is small zone of purity somewhere in the Sperrins. And the rest of the world is rancid.
I bet Bomber read a lot of asterix as a child.

I don't claim purity. What I detest is double standards and the free staters have it by the bucket load.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:46:46 PM
Bomber

Just to clarify the point I referred to "in my lifetime" so name the FF and FG gunmen elected to Dáil Eireann since I started voting in 1984. I can do nothing about anything prior to this.

And please explain why your brought up Albert Reynolds.

Also please tell me who I actually vote for.......seeing as you seem to know.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:46:46 PM
Bomber

Just to clarify the point I referred to "in my lifetime" so name the FF and FG gunmen elected to Dáil Eireann since I started voting in 1984. I can do nothing about anything prior to this.

And please explain why your brought up Albert Reynolds.

Also please tell me who I actually vote for.......seeing as you seem to know.

So only things from 1984 count?

Convenient parameter. That would rule out any offence about Kingsmill so - see that's the problem when you try and justify double standards - you're still compromised.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
bomber your the sinn fein version of tony fearon on death jokes.............

wont give up, dog with bone and talking through your ring...........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 03:09:13 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 08, 2018, 02:12:22 PM
Quoteor right wing parties up to their necks in smear, corruption, cronyism and obstructing justice

Oh the irony!

The irony.

Yes the irony. Free Staters don't like the truth that they consistently vote in white collar criminals overwhelmingly. Wasn't Albert Reynolds up to his neck in it?
There is small zone of purity somewhere in the Sperrins. And the rest of the world is rancid.
I bet Bomber read a lot of asterix as a child.

I don't claim purity. What I detest is double standards and the free staters have it by the bucket load.
Everyone has. It is impossible to get through the day without it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:11:14 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
bomber your the sinn fein version of tony fearon on death jokes.............

wont give up, dog with bone and talking through your ring...........

I think a lot of people would like if I gave up putting the spotlight on the double standards of free staters. Why would that be?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 08, 2018, 03:12:07 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:40:32 PM
The problem is you only want to see things one way.
The irony indeed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:15:11 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on January 08, 2018, 03:12:07 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 02:40:32 PM
The problem is you only want to see things one way.
The irony indeed.

Yes. The irony indeed. Are you a FF or FG man yourself?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 03:20:03 PM
3 months suspension for McElduff. Probably lucky not to be fired. Though firing him may have been harsh. He should however desist from tweeting rubbish.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 03:25:30 PM
He won't be allowed to take his seat at Westminster for 3 months
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 08, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
Who'll ever forget "Curry my yoghurt can coca coalyer" - purposely said in the assembly in full view of the cameras??

The bold Gregory didn't even get a reprimand from his own party for trying to insult the entire other side, let alone a suspension.





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)

I'll tell you what's offensive - the way northern nationalists have been abandoned and misrepresented by the Free State over the past 50 years. That's the real offence here, most nationalists of the other 3 Ulster counties will correctly feel shame and disillusion with The Free State, as I was brought up not far from the border myself I can say that many of them were quite rightfully embarrassed by the Free State's abandonment and misinformation on Northern Nationalists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 03:45:59 PM
Bomber,

do you feel Northern Nationalists did enough until the late 60s to help themselves........ ??

or did they sit back and wait for O'Bradaigh, O'Conaill, Sutcliffe, Sabhat and such like to rescue them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 08, 2018, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
Who'll ever forget "Curry my yoghurt can coca coalyer" - purposely said in the assembly in full view of the cameras??

The bold Gregory didn't even get a reprimand from his own party for trying to insult the entire other side, let alone a suspension.

It was ridiculously ignorant and petty but not in the same league as the hurt caused to the victims of Kingsmill surely even someone as blinkered as you can see that!!

I'm not really quite sure why we've descended into nonsense about the Free State and FG and FF. . . if you want to fight about that lads get a new thread for it!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)

I'll tell you what's offensive - the way northern nationalists have been abandoned and misrepresented by the Free State over the past 50 years. That's the real offence here, most nationalists of the other 3 Ulster counties will correctly feel shame and disillusion with The Free State, as I was brought up not far from the border myself I can say that many of them were quite rightfully embarrassed by the Free State's abandonment and misinformation on Northern Nationalists.

Like I already said lad I am no apologist for southern governments who abandoned the border counties too during the troubles. But you branding all southerners as somehow complicit in the workings of FF and FG is ridiculous. Fairly sure you know that yourself but you've just dug yourself too far in. None of this explains or excuses the what yer man in Tyrone did. I expect more from an elected republican, he is lucky he got off as light as he did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)

I'll tell you what's offensive - the way northern nationalists have been abandoned and misrepresented by the Free State over the past 50 years. That's the real offence here, most nationalists of the other 3 Ulster counties will correctly feel shame and disillusion with The Free State, as I was brought up not far from the border myself I can say that many of them were quite rightfully embarrassed by the Free State's abandonment and misinformation on Northern Nationalists.
Catch your self on, you are being intentionally insulting and misrepresenting snd oversimplfying history for that very purpose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 08, 2018, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
Who'll ever forget "Curry my yoghurt can coca coalyer" - purposely said in the assembly in full view of the cameras??

The bold Gregory didn't even get a reprimand from his own party for trying to insult the entire other side, let alone a suspension.

It was ridiculously ignorant and petty but not in the same league as the hurt caused to the victims of Kingsmill surely even someone as blinkered as you can see that!!

I'm not really quite sure why we've descended into nonsense about the Free State and FG and FF. . . if you want to fight about that lads get a new thread for it!!

Two threads recently on the Stardust and Mary Boyle where the Free Staters showed they didn't give a toss about. Why? Because the right wing parties they continue to vote into power are implicated in obstructing justice so if I see these hypocrites commenting on O6 matters, I won't be long in call them out on it and if they don't like - well that's just a crying shame isn't it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)

I'll tell you what's offensive - the way northern nationalists have been abandoned and misrepresented by the Free State over the past 50 years. That's the real offence here, most nationalists of the other 3 Ulster counties will correctly feel shame and disillusion with The Free State, as I was brought up not far from the border myself I can say that many of them were quite rightfully embarrassed by the Free State's abandonment and misinformation on Northern Nationalists.
Catch your self on, you are being intentionally insulting and misrepresenting snd oversimplfying history for that very purpose.

Those free staters who come on here with their moral crusade and righteousness but are nowhere to be seen when it comes to the insidious actions of their own right wing establishment parties are the ones who are intentionally insulting. It's an odd stance to take.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:58:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)

I'll tell you what's offensive - the way northern nationalists have been abandoned and misrepresented by the Free State over the past 50 years. That's the real offence here, most nationalists of the other 3 Ulster counties will correctly feel shame and disillusion with The Free State, as I was brought up not far from the border myself I can say that many of them were quite rightfully embarrassed by the Free State's abandonment and misinformation on Northern Nationalists.

Like I already said lad I am no apologist for southern governments who abandoned the border counties too during the troubles. But you branding all southerners as somehow complicit in the workings of FF and FG is ridiculous. Fairly sure you know that yourself but you've just dug yourself too far in. None of this explains or excuses the what yer man in Tyrone did. I expect more from an elected republican, he is lucky he got off as light as he did.

I'm not branding all Southerners in that criteria, only the ones who support the establishment parties and their misdeeds. If you're not one of them and feel aggrieved and ashamed on FF and FG's record with Northern Nationalists then there should be no need to feel ashamed.

What I know is that there is a consistent lot of Free State posters who are very quick to comments on controversy involving the largest republican party in the north but are usually nowhere to be seen when scandals emerge with FF or FG. You must agree that is something that should not go without comment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)

I'll tell you what's offensive - the way northern nationalists have been abandoned and misrepresented by the Free State over the past 50 years. That's the real offence here, most nationalists of the other 3 Ulster counties will correctly feel shame and disillusion with The Free State, as I was brought up not far from the border myself I can say that many of them were quite rightfully embarrassed by the Free State's abandonment and misinformation on Northern Nationalists.
Catch your self on, you are being intentionally insulting and misrepresenting snd oversimplfying history for that very purpose.

Those free staters who come on here with their moral crusade and righteousness but are nowhere to be seen when it comes to the insidious actions of their own right wing establishment parties are the ones who are intentionally insulting. It's an odd stance to take.
They have a point of view to which they are entitled as are you to disagree, but calling them freestaters smacks of TF's gratuitous use of the same term in insulting fashion, a bit like calling us nordies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 04:04:16 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 03:45:59 PM
Bomber,

do you feel Northern Nationalists did enough until the late 60s to help themselves........ ??

or did they sit back and wait for O'Bradaigh, O'Conaill, Sutcliffe, Sabhat and such like to rescue them

There were many armed nationalists in the North up until the 60s but I think they should have done more, in the end they were abandoned, things escalated and they weren't going to sit around and take it any more. But the sense of abandonment was real and I think an apology from the Irish Free State is owed to northern nationalists but it will never come.

As for people getting offended by the term Free State - since partition there are two states in Ireland, one which is free and has its own sovereignty, the other state which is occupied by Britain against the indigenous people of that land. The approach from the Free State since partition has largely been one of abandonment for Northern Nationalists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 04:05:16 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.

Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)

I'll tell you what's offensive - the way northern nationalists have been abandoned and misrepresented by the Free State over the past 50 years. That's the real offence here, most nationalists of the other 3 Ulster counties will correctly feel shame and disillusion with The Free State, as I was brought up not far from the border myself I can say that many of them were quite rightfully embarrassed by the Free State's abandonment and misinformation on Northern Nationalists.
Catch your self on, you are being intentionally insulting and misrepresenting snd oversimplfying history for that very purpose.

Those free staters who come on here with their moral crusade and righteousness but are nowhere to be seen when it comes to the insidious actions of their own right wing establishment parties are the ones who are intentionally insulting. It's an odd stance to take.
They have a point of view to which they are entitled as are you to disagree, but calling them freestaters smacks of TF's gratuitous use of the same term in insulting fashion, a bit like calling us nordies.

Where is their point of view when it comes to the action of their own establishment right wing parties. They seem to go missing when controversy courts them, it's very odd.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 08, 2018, 04:05:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 03:20:03 PM
3 months suspension for McElduff. Probably lucky not to be fired. Though firing him may have been harsh. He should however desist from tweeting rubbish.

Tyrone people should just be banned from trying to be funny. They have a sense of humour very different to the rest of us. Datsun Donaghy, anyone?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 04:11:00 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:58:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.




Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)

I'll tell you what's offensive - the way northern nationalists have been abandoned and misrepresented by the Free State over the past 50 years. That's the real offence here, most nationalists of the other 3 Ulster counties will correctly feel shame and disillusion with The Free State, as I was brought up not far from the border myself I can say that many of them were quite rightfully embarrassed by the Free State's abandonment and misinformation on Northern Nationalists.

Like I already said lad I am no apologist for southern governments who abandoned the border counties too during the troubles. But you branding all southerners as somehow complicit in the workings of FF and FG is ridiculous. Fairly sure you know that yourself but you've just dug yourself too far in. None of this explains or excuses the what yer man in Tyrone did. I expect more from an elected republican, he is lucky he got off as light as he did.

I'm not branding all Southerners in that criteria, only the ones who support the establishment parties and their misdeeds. If you're not one of them and feel aggrieved and ashamed on FF and FG's record with Northern Nationalists then there should be no need to feel ashamed.

What I know is that there is a consistent lot of Free State posters who are very quick to comments on controversy involving the largest republican party in the north but are usually nowhere to be seen when scandals emerge with FF or FG. You must agree that is something that should not go without comment?

and bomber as a proud Roscommon republican with generations on both sides to did their best to ensure freedom for all the island, i certainly find your repeated use of the derogatory term free stater more than a tad insulting.......
bit like I slating you for getting a British  funded education or being dependent on HRM for your gaa pitch perhaps.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on January 08, 2018, 04:12:32 PM
Does that mean  no pay for 3 months very unfair genuine mistake imo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 04:11:00 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:58:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
As a northern nationalist can I ask my fellow NN's on here to stop using the quasi unionist term free state, an entity that no longer exists. further comment on Barry McElduff, he is a tool and not funny, his posts on twitter which sometimes I get when they are re tweeted are not funny in the slightest.




Why?

The Free State's attitude to Northern Nationalist for 100 years has been of one of abandonment and conceited judgement of the actions of nationalists in defending themselves in a violent loyalist state with British sponsored terrorism, all the while turning a blind eye to the corruption and disgusting behaviour by their own establishment parties . A bit like SF are in politics spectrum, we always have to act to a higher set of principles to everyone else. f**k that.

what a sweeping generalisation.....

you might go back to the 1950s and see who was on the border campaign, at the time almost all republican freedom fighters were from south of the then 30 year old plus imposed partition / border......

The people of 3 other Ulster Counties and many other places might take great offence to this rubbish you are posting. Half your rebel songs are about "free staters". Sean Sabhat for example. Your generalisations about people south of the border are offensive quite frankly and you are showing the same level of intelligence as the man we are all talking about.

3 month suspension - not really enough, but by northern politics standards at least it is something. (ie many equally ridiculous comments from others have gone unpunished.)

I'll tell you what's offensive - the way northern nationalists have been abandoned and misrepresented by the Free State over the past 50 years. That's the real offence here, most nationalists of the other 3 Ulster counties will correctly feel shame and disillusion with The Free State, as I was brought up not far from the border myself I can say that many of them were quite rightfully embarrassed by the Free State's abandonment and misinformation on Northern Nationalists.

Like I already said lad I am no apologist for southern governments who abandoned the border counties too during the troubles. But you branding all southerners as somehow complicit in the workings of FF and FG is ridiculous. Fairly sure you know that yourself but you've just dug yourself too far in. None of this explains or excuses the what yer man in Tyrone did. I expect more from an elected republican, he is lucky he got off as light as he did.

I'm not branding all Southerners in that criteria, only the ones who support the establishment parties and their misdeeds. If you're not one of them and feel aggrieved and ashamed on FF and FG's record with Northern Nationalists then there should be no need to feel ashamed.

What I know is that there is a consistent lot of Free State posters who are very quick to comments on controversy involving the largest republican party in the north but are usually nowhere to be seen when scandals emerge with FF or FG. You must agree that is something that should not go without comment?

and bomber as a proud Roscommon republican with generations on both sides to did their best to ensure freedom for all the island, i certainly find your repeated use of the derogatory term free stater more than a tad insulting.......
bit like I slating you for getting a British  funded education or being dependent on HRM for your gaa pitch perhaps.

You shouldn't feel shame at that term as it is not meant for those who feel shame at the way their establishment parties have behaved toward Northern Nationalists. It's intended for those who defend their establishment parties and their indifference toward the plight of Northern Nationalists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 04:23:05 PM
yeah but your spreading the shit across all of us.......................
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 04:23:22 PM
Michelle O'Neill obviously didn't think either albert Reynolds or Stardust were germane regarding today's decision.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 04:26:43 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 04:23:05 PM
yeah but your spreading the shit across all of us.......................

Only those who defend the Free State establishment's attitude to the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 04:33:41 PM
When you stop using the "Free State" nonsense people might look through all the pontificating bombast and try to see have you a point about anything.
As I said before this thread is ABOUT SINN FÉIN and has come to life today because of actions of their elected leading lights.
His own Party leadership is putting a bit of manners on him so they know he is out of order.
No amount of irrelevant stuff about who did or didn't do what from 1921 to 1969 from SF.
If you want to bombastically pontificate and insult 4.5 million people start a new thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 08, 2018, 04:39:14 PM
3 months off on full pay doesn't sound like much of a punishment to me . . . He doesn't even go into Parliament anyway so what the f**k are they suspending him from?!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 08, 2018, 04:40:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2018, 03:20:03 PM
3 months suspension for McElduff. Probably lucky not to be fired. Though firing him may have been harsh. He should however desist from tweeting rubbish.

He should have been fired for being a complete buffoon.  SF would have won any by-election and the issue would have been closed down quickly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 08, 2018, 04:40:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 08, 2018, 04:39:14 PM
3 months off on full pay doesn't sound like much of a punishment to me . . . He doesn't even go into Parliament anyway so what the f**k are they suspending him from?!

Twitter, hopefully
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lenny on January 08, 2018, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 08, 2018, 04:39:14 PM
3 months off on full pay doesn't sound like much of a punishment to me . . . He doesn't even go into Parliament anyway so what the f**k are they suspending him from?!

He should have been sacked. It may, just may have been an innocent mistake but it was a catastrophic mistake and therefore he should go. It seems to be there is absolutely no shame in northern politics. Several dup members should have resigned over the last few years or been sacked but they have brass necked it out also.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 08, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
Who'll ever forget "Curry my yoghurt can coca coalyer" - purposely said in the assembly in full view of the cameras??

The bold Gregory didn't even get a reprimand from his own party for trying to insult the entire other side, let alone a suspension.
You think this is comparable to taunting victims of mass murder?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
This is the Sinn Féin thread.
As far as I am aware that party or their paramilitary sidekicks had nothing to do with the presumed murder of poor Mary Boyle or the deaths of the poor Stardust young people or the smear campaign against M McCabe.
Speaking of Gardai called McCabe.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
This is the Sinn Féin thread.
As far as I am aware that party or their paramilitary sidekicks had nothing to do with the presumed murder of poor Mary Boyle or the deaths of the poor Stardust young people or the smear campaign against M McCabe.
Speaking of Gardai called McCabe.....

No but the party you voted for had their grubby fingerprints all over the obstruction of justice of the disappearance of a 6 year old girl. I'm glad that gives you so much enjoyment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 06:19:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
This is the Sinn Féin thread.
As far as I am aware that party or their paramilitary sidekicks had nothing to do with the presumed murder of poor Mary Boyle or the deaths of the poor Stardust young people or the smear campaign against M McCabe.
Speaking of Gardai called McCabe.....

No but the party you voted for had their grubby fingerprints all over the obstruction of justice of the disappearance of a 6 year old girl. I'm glad that gives you so much enjoyment.

McElduff made a poorly time joke. Anyone that follows him online, is aware he does this type of thing all the time. Condemn him for it surely, but don't try and make an example of him, when worse has been done without reprimand and worse will be done in future without demand. There's all kinds of words being bandied about on this thread "mass murder". What he did was innocent but wrong. But to receive lectures from people about this incident? Look it up, what happened? What happened in the days before? What context was it carried out? Were any of the victims Security Forces? What happened in the area after Kingsmills? Can't have southerners pontificating about what had to be done up here for equality, when they probably watch the Wind that Shakes the Barley or Michael Collins and consider them actions justified.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 08, 2018, 06:27:47 PM
Just heard someone on the radio talk about the Kingsmills massacre. I'm just waiting on that same person call for the head of Barry Michael Duff.

By the way, does Barry post on here? I'm sure he at least browses.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 06:34:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
This is the Sinn Féin thread.
As far as I am aware that party or their paramilitary sidekicks had nothing to do with the presumed murder of poor Mary Boyle or the deaths of the poor Stardust young people or the smear campaign against M McCabe.
Speaking of Gardai called McCabe.....

No but the party you voted for had their grubby fingerprints all over the obstruction of justice of the disappearance of a 6 year old girl. I'm glad that gives you so much enjoyment.
Bombast - you have no idea who I have voted for in the 20 or 30 (or is it more?) Elections held since I turned 18.
Where did I express enjoyment at the presumed abduction/murder of a child?
Stop deflecting from Barry's own goal.
If you are genuinely  concerned about alleged cover ups start a new thread and outline your proofs or suspicions.
And do so without the insults and "freestatery" nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 08, 2018, 06:36:27 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 06:19:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
This is the Sinn Féin thread.
As far as I am aware that party or their paramilitary sidekicks had nothing to do with the presumed murder of poor Mary Boyle or the deaths of the poor Stardust young people or the smear campaign against M McCabe.
Speaking of Gardai called McCabe.....

No but the party you voted for had their grubby fingerprints all over the obstruction of justice of the disappearance of a 6 year old girl. I'm glad that gives you so much enjoyment.

McElduff made a poorly time joke. Anyone that follows him online, is aware he does this type of thing all the time. Condemn him for it surely, but don't try and make an example of him, when worse has been done without reprimand and worse will be done in future without demand. There's all kinds of words being bandied about on this thread "mass murder". What he did was innocent but wrong. But to receive lectures from people about this incident? Look it up, what happened? What happened in the days before? What context was it carried out? Were any of the victims Security Forces? What happened in the area after Kingsmills? Can't have southerners pontificating about what had to be done up here for equality, when they probably watch the Wind that Shakes the Barley or Michael Collins and consider them actions justified.
If it wasn't mass murder, then what was it? Your post is sickening.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:45:50 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 08, 2018, 06:36:27 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 06:19:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
This is the Sinn Féin thread.
As far as I am aware that party or their paramilitary sidekicks had nothing to do with the presumed murder of poor Mary Boyle or the deaths of the poor Stardust young people or the smear campaign against M McCabe.
Speaking of Gardai called McCabe.....

No but the party you voted for had their grubby fingerprints all over the obstruction of justice of the disappearance of a 6 year old girl. I'm glad that gives you so much enjoyment.

McElduff made a poorly time joke. Anyone that follows him online, is aware he does this type of thing all the time. Condemn him for it surely, but don't try and make an example of him, when worse has been done without reprimand and worse will be done in future without demand. There's all kinds of words being bandied about on this thread "mass murder". What he did was innocent but wrong. But to receive lectures from people about this incident? Look it up, what happened? What happened in the days before? What context was it carried out? Were any of the victims Security Forces? What happened in the area after Kingsmills? Can't have southerners pontificating about what had to be done up here for equality, when they probably watch the Wind that Shakes the Barley or Michael Collins and consider them actions justified.
If it wasn't mass murder, then what was it? Your post is sickening.
]

Dunmanway was also mass murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:48:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 06:34:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
This is the Sinn Féin thread.
As far as I am aware that party or their paramilitary sidekicks had nothing to do with the presumed murder of poor Mary Boyle or the deaths of the poor Stardust young people or the smear campaign against M McCabe.
Speaking of Gardai called McCabe.....

No but the party you voted for had their grubby fingerprints all over the obstruction of justice of the disappearance of a 6 year old girl. I'm glad that gives you so much enjoyment.
Bombast - you have no idea who I have voted for in the 20 or 30 (or is it more?) Elections held since I turned 18.
Where did I express enjoyment at the presumed abduction/murder of a child?
Stop deflecting from Barry's own goal.
If you are genuinely  concerned about alleged cover ups start a new thread and outline your proofs or suspicions.
And do so without the insults and "freestatery" nonsense.

It's great that you are getting a great kick out of it in comparison in your refusal to be drawn on FF councillor Sean McEniff stopping Gardai from interviewing the main suspect in the Mary Boyle case. That's what we'd call double standards.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:48:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 06:34:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
This is the Sinn Féin thread.
As far as I am aware that party or their paramilitary sidekicks had nothing to do with the presumed murder of poor Mary Boyle or the deaths of the poor Stardust young people or the smear campaign against M McCabe.
Speaking of Gardai called McCabe.....

No but the party you voted for had their grubby fingerprints all over the obstruction of justice of the disappearance of a 6 year old girl. I'm glad that gives you so much enjoyment.
Bombast - you have no idea who I have voted for in the 20 or 30 (or is it more?) Elections held since I turned 18.
Where did I express enjoyment at the presumed abduction/murder of a child?
Stop deflecting from Barry's own goal.
If you are genuinely  concerned about alleged cover ups start a new thread and outline your proofs or suspicions.
And do so without the insults and "freestatery" nonsense.

It's great that you are getting a great kick out of it in comparison in your refusal to be drawn on FF councillor Sean McEniff stopping Gardai from interviewing the main suspect in the Mary Boyle case. That's what we'd call double standards.
I think you have lost the plot lad and you are making a right tit of yourself. I question if you are a republican at all or some sort of parody account.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 06:56:44 PM
Wonder is he related to Barry McElgaff
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 07:00:30 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:48:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 06:34:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
FF and FG are consistently voted in, in the South. So we in the North can only assume that the voters of said parties (who are in the majority) agree with the outlook. What really grinds our f***ing gears though is the likes of these southerners, constantly lambasting Sinn Fein, waiting for them to mess up. I didn't see the exact same vitriol displayed because of the Cash for Ash scheme?? Perhaps because SF weren't complicit in it. Even the thread name says all there is to say....but to clarify Sinn Fein, have not nor will not go away.

Exactly, you also won't get them to criticise those establishment parties when it comes to their role in smearing a Garda whistleblower as a child molester, of obstructing justice for the disappearance of 6 year old girl or the obstruction of justice of the deaths of 39 young people in a nightclub fire and all the other corruption and coverups associated with them.
of course you will.

They were posted missing when they had the chance to.
This is the Sinn Féin thread.
As far as I am aware that party or their paramilitary sidekicks had nothing to do with the presumed murder of poor Mary Boyle or the deaths of the poor Stardust young people or the smear campaign against M McCabe.
Speaking of Gardai called McCabe.....

No but the party you voted for had their grubby fingerprints all over the obstruction of justice of the disappearance of a 6 year old girl. I'm glad that gives you so much enjoyment.
Bombast - you have no idea who I have voted for in the 20 or 30 (or is it more?) Elections held since I turned 18.
Where did I express enjoyment at the presumed abduction/murder of a child?
Stop deflecting from Barry's own goal.
If you are genuinely  concerned about alleged cover ups start a new thread and outline your proofs or suspicions.
And do so without the insults and "freestatery" nonsense.

It's great that you are getting a great kick out of it in comparison in your refusal to be drawn on FF councillor Sean McEniff stopping Gardai from interviewing the main suspect in the Mary Boyle case. That's what we'd call double standards.
I think you have lost the plot lad and you are making a right tit of yourself. I question if you are a republican at all or some sort of parody account.

Are you shushing me because you have a problem with allegations from an investigating Sergeant that a FF councillor obstructed an investigation into the disappearance of a 6 year old girl and ordrered than the main suspect not be arrested?

Is that your issue?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPEyFtnz9Lc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 08, 2018, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 08, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
Who'll ever forget "Curry my yoghurt can coca coalyer" - purposely said in the assembly in full view of the cameras??

The bold Gregory didn't even get a reprimand from his own party for trying to insult the entire other side, let alone a suspension.
You think this is comparable to taunting victims of mass murder?
Without getting in to whataboutery, one incident was a definite and deliberate act of provocation by an absolute bigot intending to cause maximum offence.  The other was most likely an unfortunate stupid mistake by a Muppet  that has caused a tremendous  amount of genuine outrage and faux outrage in equal measure.
I accept as others have pointed out, that it may have been an intended joke privately.  Which would be despicable if the case.  I hope not, and really only he or those close to him would know that.  I honestly don't think it was.
He should have resigned.   As a republican voter I expect more from my politicians than posting stupid videos on social media.
Jesus, look at the tripe intelligent people are now discussing because of it!  "To select that brand of bread,  then the chances of getting the writing the correct way up..."  Give me strength, should be roaded for that alone.
As for some of the other stuff being posted by Donald and others, get a grip yous are embarrasing yourselves.  As has been pointed out Kingsmill was a stain on Irish history.  It  was sectarian mass murder and should never have happened plain and simple.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 07:27:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 08, 2018, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 08, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
Who'll ever forget "Curry my yoghurt can coca coalyer" - purposely said in the assembly in full view of the cameras??

The bold Gregory didn't even get a reprimand from his own party for trying to insult the entire other side, let alone a suspension.
You think this is comparable to taunting victims of mass murder?
As for some of the other stuff being posted by Donald and others, get a grip yous are embarrasing yourselves.  As has been pointed out Kingsmill was a stain on Irish history.  It  was sectarian mass murder and should never have happened plain and simple.

The Free Staters seem to have airbrushed Dunmanway out of their conscience.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 07:33:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 08, 2018, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 08, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
Who'll ever forget "Curry my yoghurt can coca coalyer" - purposely said in the assembly in full view of the cameras??

The bold Gregory didn't even get a reprimand from his own party for trying to insult the entire other side, let alone a suspension.
You think this is comparable to taunting victims of mass murder?
Without getting in to whataboutery, one incident was a definite and deliberate act of provocation by an absolute bigot intending to cause maximum offence.  The other was most likely an unfortunate stupid mistake by a Muppet  that has caused a tremendous  amount of genuine outrage and faux outrage in equal measure.
I accept as others have pointed out, that it may have been an intended joke privately.  Which would be despicable if the case.  I hope not, and really only he or those close to him would know that.  I honestly don't think it was.
He should have resigned.   As a republican voter I expect more from my politicians than posting stupid videos on social media.
Jesus, look at the tripe intelligent people are now discussing because of it!  "To select that brand of bread,  then the chances of getting the writing the correct way up..."  Give me strength, should be roaded for that alone.
As for some of the other stuff being posted by Donald and others, get a grip yous are embarrasing yourselves.  As has been pointed out Kingsmill was a stain on Irish history.  It  was sectarian mass murder and should never have happened plain and simple.

What you consider it is your own business...what I consider it is my own.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 08, 2018, 07:39:26 PM
Consider What?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
One thing this thread has thought me us that the DUP supporters unfortunately don't have a monopoly on whataboutery, ignorance and stupidity. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
One thing this thread has thought me us that the DUP supporters unfortunately don't have a monopoly on whataboutery, ignorance and stupidity.

No comment on the involvement of FF councillor Sean McEniff in obstructing an investigation into the disappearance of a 6 year old girl?

Is that because you don't want to be drawn on having go through the list of mud FF have.

DUP aren't guilty of whataboutery, they are guilty of looking at a conflict through one lens, just like FF and FG.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 08, 2018, 07:54:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
One thing this thread has thought me us that the DUP supporters unfortunately don't have a monopoly on whataboutery, ignorance and stupidity.

No comment on the involvement of FF councillor Sean McEniff in obstructing an investigation into the disappearance of a 6 year old girl?

Is that because you don't want to be drawn on having go through the list of mud FF have.

DUP aren't guilty of whataboutery, they are guilty of looking at a conflict through one lens, just like FF and FG.
And there won't be any comment either because you are spouting bullshit to divert attention away from the clown. You don't give a shite about Mary Boyle
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:00:38 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 08, 2018, 07:54:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
One thing this thread has thought me us that the DUP supporters unfortunately don't have a monopoly on whataboutery, ignorance and stupidity.

No comment on the involvement of FF councillor Sean McEniff in obstructing an investigation into the disappearance of a 6 year old girl?

Is that because you don't want to be drawn on having go through the list of mud FF have.

DUP aren't guilty of whataboutery, they are guilty of looking at a conflict through one lens, just like FF and FG.
And there won't be any comment either because you are spouting bullshit to divert attention away from the clown. You don't give a shite about Mary Boyle

You're right.

They won't comment because the acts are not what matter, it's who committed them that mattered and the people who have a problem with whataboutery are usually the ones who are compromised by double standards and hypocrisy. Like you, we can see behind all that faux outrage and fake morals when it boils down to it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 08:04:43 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:00:38 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 08, 2018, 07:54:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
One thing this thread has thought me us that the DUP supporters unfortunately don't have a monopoly on whataboutery, ignorance and stupidity.

No comment on the involvement of FF councillor Sean McEniff in obstructing an investigation into the disappearance of a 6 year old girl?

Is that because you don't want to be drawn on having go through the list of mud FF have.

DUP aren't guilty of whataboutery, they are guilty of looking at a conflict through one lens, just like FF and FG.
And there won't be any comment either because you are spouting bullshit to divert attention away from the clown. You don't give a shite about Mary Boyle

You're right.

They won't comment because the acts are not what matter, it's who committed them that mattered and the people who have a problem with whataboutery are usually the ones who are compromised by double standards and hypocrisy. Like you, we can see behind all that faux outrage and fake morals when it boils down to it.

Alot of you don't understand that if McElduff resigned his West Tyrone role, and stood again in the morning, he would get in by a landslide. It's this type of attitude towards McElduff and SF moreso that sickens the north's republican voters. When McGuinness stood for election as President it was the same shit3 being spouted. Funny I don't see too many sickened by De Valera's role as President.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 08, 2018, 08:11:02 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 08:04:43 PM
Alot of you don't understand that if McElduff resigned his West Tyrone role, and stood again in the morning, he would get in by a landslide. It's this type of attitude towards McElduff and SF moreso that sickens the north's republican voters. When McGuinness stood for election as President it was the same shit3 being spouted. Funny I don't see too many sickened by De Valera's role as President.

Perhaps they should stop voting for clowns.
Apart from anything else the likes of McElduff will do nothing useful whatsoever to bring about a United Ireland, this may not be expected by Tyrone republicans but should be expected by nationalists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:13:36 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 08:04:43 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:00:38 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 08, 2018, 07:54:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
One thing this thread has thought me us that the DUP supporters unfortunately don't have a monopoly on whataboutery, ignorance and stupidity.

No comment on the involvement of FF councillor Sean McEniff in obstructing an investigation into the disappearance of a 6 year old girl?

Is that because you don't want to be drawn on having go through the list of mud FF have.

DUP aren't guilty of whataboutery, they are guilty of looking at a conflict through one lens, just like FF and FG.
And there won't be any comment either because you are spouting bullshit to divert attention away from the clown. You don't give a shite about Mary Boyle

You're right.

They won't comment because the acts are not what matter, it's who committed them that mattered and the people who have a problem with whataboutery are usually the ones who are compromised by double standards and hypocrisy. Like you, we can see behind all that faux outrage and fake morals when it boils down to it.

Alot of you don't understand that if McElduff resigned his West Tyrone role, and stood again in the morning, he would get in by a landslide. It's this type of attitude towards McElduff and SF moreso that sickens the north's republican voters. When McGuinness stood for election as President it was the same shit3 being spouted. Funny I don't see too many sickened by De Valera's role as President.

They won't. A FF TD could drive down the wrong way on a motorway demented drunk and they'd be shuffling, looking at their feet afraid to condemn him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 08, 2018, 08:20:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 08, 2018, 08:11:02 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 08:04:43 PM
Alot of you don't understand that if McElduff resigned his West Tyrone role, and stood again in the morning, he would get in by a landslide. It's this type of attitude towards McElduff and SF moreso that sickens the north's republican voters. When McGuinness stood for election as President it was the same shit3 being spouted. Funny I don't see too many sickened by De Valera's role as President.

Perhaps they should stop voting for clowns.
Apart from anything else the likes of McElduff will do nothing useful whatsoever to bring about a United Ireland, this may not be expected by Tyrone republicans but should be expected by nationalists.
I understand he works very hard for his constituents and because of this us well liked by the electorate. I'm not from the area but it's what I've heard and it was a public servant who told me that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 08:21:08 PM
One did and was taken to Court and dealt with.
However enough if the bombastic deflection attempts.
This is the SF thread and Barry made at best a clown of himself.
So stick to the topic or get off the stage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:26:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 08:21:08 PM
One did and was taken to Court and dealt with.
However enough if the bombastic deflection attempts.
This is the SF thread and Barry made at best a clown of himself.
So stick to the topic or get off the stage.

Yes and you're nowhere to be seen with your faux outrage when FF are involved in controversy, now why is that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on January 08, 2018, 08:35:32 PM
Jesus, deflector shields at max, embarrassing stuff.

Shinners will have a lot to listen to over the coming months - probably the first time i've listened to Arlene point score and think she had a decent point for a change. The pontificating and moralising over respect & equality do seem pretty empty after a 3 month slap on the wrist for McElduff. They've vacated the moral high ground.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 08:37:13 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:26:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 08:21:08 PM
One did and was taken to Court and dealt with.
However enough if the bombastic deflection attempts.
This is the SF thread and Barry made at best a clown of himself.
So stick to the topic or get off the stage.

Yes and you're nowhere to be seen with your faux outrage when FF are involved in controversy, now why is that?
FF are banjaxed . Free State voters decided about them in 2011. Free Staters have agency. They don't use it all the time but they do have it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 08, 2018, 08:39:06 PM
A three month suspension and a denial of intent says it all about why Sinn Fein remain cancerous to the political norms of Ireland. They've fooled no one.

Shameful, as usual.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:40:08 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 08, 2018, 08:35:32 PM
Jesus, deflector shields at max, embarrassing stuff.

Shinners will have a lot to listen to over the coming months - probably the first time i've listened to Arlene point score and think she had a decent point for a change. The pontificating and moralising over respect & equality do seem pretty empty after a 3 month slap on the wrist for McElduff. They've vacated the moral high ground.

Not really anything to do with deflection.

What would you call people who ignore trangressions of other parties but are first in line with their mud balls when a bit of controversy happens with one particular party then?

Deflection and whataboutery are the terms bandied about by hypocrites who can easily turn a blind eye if the perpetrator of wrongdoing is acceptable to them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 08:41:11 PM
SF have some tough decisions to make. With MC Guinness gone they have no leverage in London. The DUP are in government . Does abstention look like the fastest route to a UI?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 08, 2018, 08:42:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2018, 08:41:11 PM
SF have some tough decisions to make. With MC Guinness gone they have no leverage in London. The DUP are in government . Does abstention look like the fastest route to a UI?

Absenteeism was a crock of shît from day one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:42:38 PM
A refusal from FG to remove a Tanaiste who was fully aware of a campaign to smear a Gardai whistleblower as a child molester and did not take any remedying actions says it all about FG.

A refusal from FF to open any sort of internal investigation into allegations that a FF councillor attempted to pervert justice in the case of a missing 6 year old girl says it all about FF.

Sweep, sweep.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:45:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 08, 2018, 08:39:06 PM
A three month suspension and a denial of intent says it all about why Sinn Fein remain cancerous to the political norms of Ireland. They've fooled no one.

Shameful, as usual.


While you're at it, what about the former FG party leader who refused to investigate reports into child abuse at a foster home?

Any comment? Thought not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:49:41 PM
Michael Noonan, former leader of FG, the guy who threatened to bring the mother of a woman the state had killed to court.

No comment on that I bet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 08:49:53 PM
Bomber as someone who despises been labelled a freestater which when I last read an phoblacht in October 86 was a Parnell square term of abuse for a guard or agent thereof.....

Can you debate anything about the 26 counties beyond  Mary Boyle, the stardust or Dunmanway.. it's a very myopic view of 96 years of (partial )freedom.


I recall in 1985 Mcguinness at a meeting in north Roscommon  declaring the absolute need to go towards participation in elected  politics but saying he acknowledged it would give some awful gobshites  a platform. He had met you by then obviously......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 08, 2018, 08:50:10 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:45:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 08, 2018, 08:39:06 PM
A three month suspension and a denial of intent says it all about why Sinn Fein remain cancerous to the political norms of Ireland. They've fooled no one.

Shameful, as usual.


While you're at it, what about the former FG party leader who refused to investigate reports into child abuse at a foster home?

Any comment? Thought not.

Not even Donald Trump would be able to buy the level of whataboutry you are throwing out in this thread. You just like the attention because there is no way you couldn't see how disgusting what you're doing is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 08, 2018, 08:51:17 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 08, 2018, 08:39:06 PM
A three month suspension and a denial of intent says it all about why Sinn Fein remain cancerous to the political norms of Ireland. They've fooled no one.

Shameful, as usual.
Jesus and this is the other side of the coin.  We have the full spectrum of embarrassing bullshit on display
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 08, 2018, 08:50:10 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 08:45:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 08, 2018, 08:39:06 PM
A three month suspension and a denial of intent says it all about why Sinn Fein remain cancerous to the political norms of Ireland. They've fooled no one.

Shameful, as usual.


While you're at it, what about the former FG party leader who refused to investigate reports into child abuse at a foster home?

Any comment? Thought not.

Not even Donald Trump would be able to buy the level of whataboutry you are throwing out in this thread. You just like the attention because there is no way you couldn't see how disgusting what you're doing is.

There's the hypocrite with whataboutery.

As predictable as a Bond movie. What is also predictable is you have no comment for any of the disgraces that follow FG around like a bad smell. Did you find anything wrong about FG's knowledge of a smear campaign labelling a Garda whistleblower as a child molester and complete inaction towards it? Did you register your disgust? I doubt it as I'd imagine you fully supported because that's the class of human being you are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:01:29 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 08:49:53 PM
Bomber as someone who despises been labelled a freestater which when I last read an phoblacht in October 86 was a Parnell square term of abuse for a guard or agent thereof.....

Can you debate anything about the 26 counties beyond  Mary Boyle, the stardust or Dunmanway.. it's a very myopic view of 96 years of (partial )freedom.


I recall in 1985 Mcguinness at a meeting in north Roscommon  declaring the absolute need to go towards participation in elected  politics but saying he acknowledged it would give some awful gobshites  a platform. He had met you by then obviously......

I'm not debating them, I'm just commenting on how the usual suspects who line up with their mud balls whenever SF draw a bit of controversy are nowhere to be seen when their own parties are involved in very serious scandals. It's almost like they condone disgusting acts by their won but get on their soap box when it is others who are under the spotlight. Why is that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 09:07:38 PM
No you are not debating them, you are repeating them ad nauseam like a piss poor opposition TD.


Straight  question . Do you want a United Ireland.......

Or do you want a bigger share of grubby brit cash and play at self governing.......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:09:46 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 09:07:38 PM
No you are not debating them, you are repeating them ad nauseam like a piss poor opposition TD.


Straight  question . Do you want a United Ireland.......

Or do you want a bigger share of grubby brit cash and play at self governing.......

Of course I'm repeating them, these same guys are on here like clockwork everytime and I think they should have their double standards outlined. I'd like a new Ireland, both states are rotten to the core.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
Sinn Féin thread.
SF MP makes a clown of himself.
Along comes Bombast in full deflector mode and still at it 10 pages later.
Just admit your hero made a bigger title of himself than usual.
Then go off and open FG or FF  threads to your hearts content.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:14:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
Sinn Féin thread.
SF MP makes a clown of himself.
Along comes Bombast in full deflector mode and still at it 10 pages later.
Just admit your hero made a bigger title of himself than usual.
Then go off and open FG or FF  threads to your hearts content.

Well I had a Stardust Thread and Mary Boyle thread and you guys didn't have a dickie bird in relation to condemning the establishment parties.

Odd wasn't it? When you come on here with your faux outrage, be prepared to have your sincerity questioned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:16:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:14:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
Sinn Féin thread.
SF MP makes a clown of himself.
Along comes Bombast in full deflector mode and still at it 10 pages later.
Just admit your hero made a bigger title of himself than usual.
Then go off and open FG or FF  threads to your hearts content.

Well I had a Stardust Thread and Mary Boyle thread and you guys didn't have a dickie bird in relation to condemning the establishment parties.

Odd wasn't it? When you come on here with your faux outrage, be prepared to have your sincerity questioned.

True. All you are doing is making it evident of your hatred of all things SF. Just admit you hate SF, you think the IRA were a pile of terrorists and get on with it. Put it out in the open you guys.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:16:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:14:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
Sinn Féin thread.
SF MP makes a clown of himself.
Along comes Bombast in full deflector mode and still at it 10 pages later.
Just admit your hero made a bigger title of himself than usual.
Then go off and open FG or FF  threads to your hearts content.

Well I had a Stardust Thread and Mary Boyle thread and you guys didn't have a dickie bird in relation to condemning the establishment parties.

Odd wasn't it? When you come on here with your faux outrage, be prepared to have your sincerity questioned.

True. All you are doing is making it evident of your hatred of all things SF. Just admit you hate SF, you think the IRA were a pile of terrorists and get on with it. Put it out in the open you guys.

Meanwhile trying to obstruct an investigation into the disappearance of a 6 year old girl because the main suspect was from a big FF party is perfectly acceptable to these guys and we should stop highlighting this as it makes these people look like hypocrites.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

What about the lads who shot the Protestant men and boys in Dunmanway?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on January 08, 2018, 09:40:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

What about the lads who shot the Protestant men and boys in Dunmanway?

Is anybody defending them?

Anyway back to SF. A 3 month suspension from the party means precisely nothing. It's a non punishment. For all their talk this morning they have decided to ignore this one and ride it out.

Probably won't hurt them in the north. SDLP can't get going so the only threat to SF is an apathetic turnout. Might hurt them in the south though. There is a respect agenda in SF. But that is all it is - an agenda. There is no moral or intellectual commitment to giving respect
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:43:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 08, 2018, 09:40:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

What about the lads who shot the Protestant men and boys in Dunmanway?

Is anybody defending them?

Anyway back to SF. A 3 month suspension from the party means precisely nothing. It's a non punishment. For all their talk this morning they have decided to ignore this one and ride it out.

Probably won't hurt them in the north. SDLP can't get going so the only threat to SF is an apathetic turnout. Might hurt them in the south though. There is a respect agenda in SF. But that is all it is - an agenda. There is no moral or intellectual commitment to giving respect

More just turning a blind eye and acting like republicans in the pre-troubles conflict never did anything deplorable while pontificating to northern nationalists about the acts of the Provos.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 08, 2018, 09:50:49 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.

It would be safe to say military intelligence aka MI5 were heavily involved in both the kingsmill massacre and also the actions of the glenanne gang
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on January 08, 2018, 09:52:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:43:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 08, 2018, 09:40:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

What about the lads who shot the Protestant men and boys in Dunmanway?

Is anybody defending them?

Anyway back to SF. A 3 month suspension from the party means precisely nothing. It's a non punishment. For all their talk this morning they have decided to ignore this one and ride it out.

Probably won't hurt them in the north. SDLP can't get going so the only threat to SF is an apathetic turnout. Might hurt them in the south though. There is a respect agenda in SF. But that is all it is - an agenda. There is no moral or intellectual commitment to giving respect

More just turning a blind eye and acting like republicans in the pre-troubles conflict never did anything deplorable while pontificating to northern nationalists about the acts of the Provos.

As long as people aren't turning a blind eye to those putting themselves up for election today or trying to deflect attention away from scrutiny of these individuals
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 10:09:11 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 08, 2018, 09:52:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:43:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 08, 2018, 09:40:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

What about the lads who shot the Protestant men and boys in Dunmanway?

Is anybody defending them?

Anyway back to SF. A 3 month suspension from the party means precisely nothing. It's a non punishment. For all their talk this morning they have decided to ignore this one and ride it out.

Probably won't hurt them in the north. SDLP can't get going so the only threat to SF is an apathetic turnout. Might hurt them in the south though. There is a respect agenda in SF. But that is all it is - an agenda. There is no moral or intellectual commitment to giving respect

More just turning a blind eye and acting like republicans in the pre-troubles conflict never did anything deplorable while pontificating to northern nationalists about the acts of the Provos.

As long as people aren't turning a blind eye to those putting themselves up for election today or trying to deflect attention away from scrutiny of these individuals

I've commented on the incident, I'm not trying to deflect away from anything. I merely made a point of certain posters expressing their outrage on this incident when they had very little to say on recent and more serious topical matters involving the establishment parties in their state.

Do you think if a SF minister was embroiled in smear campaign labeling a PSNI whistleblower as a child molester it would be bigger news than this?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
That defence wouldn't fly at the Hague
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 07:27:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
That defence wouldn't fly at the Hague

How did ye get away with Dunmanway so?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 08:11:41 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 07:27:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
That defence wouldn't fly at the Hague

How did ye get away with Dunmanway so?
autres temps autres moeurs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 09, 2018, 09:22:28 AM
Quote from: michaelg on January 08, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 08, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
Who'll ever forget "Curry my yoghurt can coca coalyer" - purposely said in the assembly in full view of the cameras??

The bold Gregory didn't even get a reprimand from his own party for trying to insult the entire other side, let alone a suspension.
You think this is comparable to taunting victims of mass murder?
It is comparable to Stalfords remarks on Bloody Sunday and the general glorification of the paras, none of it acceptable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 09, 2018, 09:35:08 AM
My tuppence worth on this ramshackle 'debate'.

If that's the calibre of elected politicians then I pity the people of West Tyrone. I've never seen clowns on fb putting a loaf of bread on their head, and by Christ there's plenty of them too. I'm not to judge whether or not he meant offence? But it seems like it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 07:27:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
That defence wouldn't fly at the Hague

How did ye get away with Dunmanway so?
This is from someone who couldn't find his way to Dundonald never mind Dunmanway. Your friend got a three month suspension so he has plenty time to work on hisc comedy act for Britain's got talent
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 09, 2018, 09:37:33 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 09, 2018, 09:35:08 AM
My tuppence worth on this ramshackle 'debate'.

If that's the calibre of elected politicians then I pity the people of West Tyrone. I've never seen clowns on fb putting a loaf of bread on their head, and by Christ there's plenty of them too. I'm not to judge whether or not he meant offence? But it seems like it.

nail on the head despite all the diversions and sidetrack fudging here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Longshanks on January 09, 2018, 09:40:13 AM
I know Willie Frazier and bizarre go hand in hand but that facebook video he put up lastnight was just madness altogether.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 09:41:51 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 09, 2018, 09:35:08 AM
My tuppence worth on this ramshackle 'debate'.

If that's the calibre of elected politicians then I pity the people of West Tyrone. I've never seen clowns on fb putting a loaf of bread on their head, and by Christ there's plenty of them too. I'm not to judge whether or not he meant offence? But it seems like it.
Apparently he's a great lad for putting things on his head. It distracts from the absence of brains
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 09:43:54 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 09, 2018, 09:35:08 AM
My tuppence worth on this ramshackle 'debate'.

If that's the calibre of elected politicians then I pity the people of West Tyrone. I've never seen clowns on fb putting a loaf of bread on their head, and by Christ there's plenty of them too. I'm not to judge whether or not he meant offence? But it seems like it.
Social media is ultra dangerous. Most people outside NI wouldn't have had a notion about Baz.
And as the head and shoulders  ad used to say you never get a second chance to make a first impression.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 09, 2018, 09:53:10 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
One thing this thread has thought me us that the DUP supporters unfortunately don't have a monopoly on whataboutery, ignorance and stupidity.

No comment on the involvement of FF councillor Sean McEniff in obstructing an investigation into the disappearance of a 6 year old girl?

Is that because you don't want to be drawn on having go through the list of mud FF have.

DUP aren't guilty of whataboutery, they are guilty of looking at a conflict through one lens, just like FF and FG.

Bomber, you have some fair points but this isn't the thread for them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 10:01:43 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 07:27:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
That defence wouldn't fly at the Hague

How did ye get away with Dunmanway so?
This is from someone who couldn't find his way to Dundonald never mind Dunmanway. Your friend got a three month suspension so he has plenty time to work on hisc comedy act for Britain's got talent

Can none of ye answer the question?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 10:03:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 09, 2018, 09:53:10 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
One thing this thread has thought me us that the DUP supporters unfortunately don't have a monopoly on whataboutery, ignorance and stupidity.

No comment on the involvement of FF councillor Sean McEniff in obstructing an investigation into the disappearance of a 6 year old girl?

Is that because you don't want to be drawn on having go through the list of mud FF have.

DUP aren't guilty of whataboutery, they are guilty of looking at a conflict through one lens, just like FF and FG.

Bomber, you have some fair points but this isn't the thread for them

It may not be but the people that are here with their mudballs would not be entering the appropriate thread for them so there's only one place to confront them - naturally they don't like it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 09, 2018, 10:03:23 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 07:27:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.
Y

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
That defence wouldn't fly at the Hague

How did ye get away with Dunmanway so?
This is from someone who couldn't find his way to Dundonald never mind Dunmanway. Your friend got a three month suspension so he has plenty time to work on hisc comedy act for Britain's got talent

He doesn't take his seat in a British parliament. He's unlikely to participate in a British talent show. Well, not with that kind of "act" anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 09, 2018, 11:20:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
Sinn Féin thread.
SF MP makes a clown of himself.
Along comes Bombast in full deflector mode and still at it 10 pages later.
Just admit your hero made a bigger title of himself than usual.
Then go off and open FG or FF  threads to your hearts content.

McElduff is a fool.  I don't believe he meant to cause offence but all the same, what a monumental balls up.  SF missed a gilt edged opportunity to put a lid on this by removing him from his post as an MP.  He should have been thrown under the bus.  If he's that good a local rep, let him stand for election next time on a local level.

By the same token, Bomber is making some points here that the usual suspects want to wriggle away from but can't.

There is a Mary Boyle thread.  Here are the responses by a few of the Shinnerbasherbots.

Owenmoresider

"SF can't try to smear their opponents about that though."

Rossfan

"Maria Cahill
Tom Oliver
Young Quinn
.........."

"Outrage from Shinners is always taken with a large handful of salt by normal folk."


There is also a thread on the Stardust fire.  Again, here's the replies;

Rossfan

"What a pity they wouldn't listen to your great mind and vote Provo SF.
Then we'd all be in a corruption free honourable zone where no Politician would tell a lie or own Holiday homes etc etc.
Also could you point out where the "State is obstruciting Justice" in the Stardust case."

Syferus

"It's disgusting to use something like the Stardust tragedy as a flimsy excuse to play party politics."



Anyone for another serving of deflection and whataboutery?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2018, 10:03:23 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 07:27:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.
Y

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
That defence wouldn't fly at the Hague

How did ye get away with Dunmanway so?
This is from someone who couldn't find his way to Dundonald never mind Dunmanway. Your friend got a three month suspension so he has plenty time to work on hisc comedy act for Britain's got talent

He doesn't take his seat in a British parliament. He's unlikely to participate in a British talent show. Well, not with that kind of "act" anyway.
I bet he takes the Queen's shilling. Of course all the Shinners do, some of them in cash from their handlers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 11:32:25 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 09, 2018, 11:20:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
Sinn Féin thread.
SF MP makes a clown of himself.
Along comes Bombast in full deflector mode and still at it 10 pages later.
Just admit your hero made a bigger title of himself than usual.
Then go off and open FG or FF  threads to your hearts content.

McElduff is a fool.  I don't believe he meant to cause offence but all the same, what a monumental balls up.  SF missed a gilt edged opportunity to put a lid on this by removing him from his post as an MP.  He should have been thrown under the bus.  If he's that good a local rep, let him stand for election next time on a local level.

By the same token, Bomber is making some points here that the usual suspects want to wriggle away from but can't.

There is a Mary Boyle thread.  Here are the responses by a few of the Shinnerbasherbots.

Owenmoresider

"SF can't try to smear their opponents about that though."

Rossfan

"Maria Cahill
Tom Oliver
Young Quinn
.........."

"Outrage from Shinners is always taken with a large handful of salt by normal folk."


There is also a thread on the Stardust fire.  Again, here's the replies;

Rossfan

"What a pity they wouldn't listen to your great mind and vote Provo SF.
Then we'd all be in a corruption free honourable zone where no Politician would tell a lie or own Holiday homes etc etc.
Also could you point out where the "State is obstruciting Justice" in the Stardust case."

Syferus

"It's disgusting to use something like the Stardust tragedy as a flimsy excuse to play party politics."



Anyone for another serving of deflection and whataboutery?

There was not one word of condemnation on it from the FS posters, apart from Seafoid.

Those who did comment tried to deflect it away or in someway defend it.

There's a Fine Gael thread here, it was left collecting tumbleweed when it recently emerged that a cabinet minister had knowledge of a campaign carried out by State bodies to smear a Garda Whistleblower as a child abuser. But the usual suspects are out in force when a bit of controversy hits on particular party, hard to take any sincerity in their outrage.

You'll also find most of these chaps will be too ashamed to outline their own particular political leanings while yapping on about shinnerbots.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 12:32:26 PM
At the last UK election the 18 NI seats were divvied up between the DUP and SF. The SDLP was wiped out.
The politics in NI are completely polarised. It is more or less geographical as well.

SF have to prove that they are capable of delivering change that benefits voters. Otherwise voters will shaft them. 
Maybe the most interesting comment on this whole clusterfuck came regarding SF's respect equality and sectarianism agenda. It looks like plamas.

SF remind me a bit of the Tyrone footballers 2018 version. Very disciplined but no marquee forwards.

The All Ireland that SF are playing for is a United Ireland. They need to have the right people in place to take advantage of the UK's weakness. They need to be strategic. They need to think ahead. Maybe they can't. 

This has nothing to do with the Stardust. This is senior hurling.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 09, 2018, 01:26:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 10:01:43 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 07:27:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
That defence wouldn't fly at the Hague

How did ye get away with Dunmanway so?
This is from someone who couldn't find his way to Dundonald never mind Dunmanway. Your friend got a three month suspension so he has plenty time to work on hisc comedy act for Britain's got talent

Can none of ye answer the question?

Whats the question?

I don't recall anyone mocking the victims from Dunmanway or anywhere else on here so what is your point?

My Credentials - SF voter in all General Elections since i was allowed vote so am I allowed have an opinion on this guy? Seems credentials are important.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seany on January 09, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Just remember. Barry McElduff wasn't mocking anyone. He was making fun of himself. It is not against the law for an elected representative to have a bit of fun. His voters seem to like it. He tops the poll in every election he participates in and is known for his 24 hour service to his constituents. What is utterly sickening about this is the kicking he received from fellow politicians who know him, know his anti sectarian principles and know he meant absolutely nothing to do with Kingsmills when he put that loaf of bread on his head. There was no rational or logical advantage for him to gain by mocking the victims of a sectarian outrage that even horrified senior IRA figures and happened during a ceasefire. But the poor victims and relatives were the last thing on the minds of those who decided that this would be a great piece of moral high ground to bash him around the place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 09, 2018, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 09, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Just remember. Barry McElduff wasn't mocking anyone. He was making fun of himself. It is not against the law for an elected representative to have a bit of fun. His voters seem to like it. He tops the poll in every election he participates in and is known for his 24 hour service to his constituents. What is utterly sickening about this is the kicking he received from fellow politicians who know him, know his anti sectarian principles and know he meant absolutely nothing to do with Kingsmills when he put that loaf of bread on his head. There was no rational or logical advantage for him to gain by mocking the victims of a sectarian outrage that even horrified senior IRA figures and happened during a ceasefire. But the poor victims and relatives were the last thing on the minds of those who decided that this would be a great piece of moral high ground to bash him around the place.

I hear ya but I have to say it is very difficult to believe that. It comes across to me as a private joke that got out. We will never know for sure I suppose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on January 09, 2018, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 09, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Just remember. Barry McElduff wasn't mocking anyone. He was making fun of himself. It is not against the law for an elected representative to have a bit of fun. His voters seem to like it. He tops the poll in every election he participates in and is known for his 24 hour service to his constituents. What is utterly sickening about this is the kicking he received from fellow politicians who know him, know his anti sectarian principles and know he meant absolutely nothing to do with Kingsmills when he put that loaf of bread on his head. There was no rational or logical advantage for him to gain by mocking the victims of a sectarian outrage that even horrified senior IRA figures and happened during a ceasefire. But the poor victims and relatives were the last thing on the minds of those who decided that this would be a great piece of moral high ground to bash him around the place.

Precisely
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on January 09, 2018, 02:08:41 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on January 09, 2018, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 09, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Just remember. Barry McElduff wasn't mocking anyone. He was making fun of himself. It is not against the law for an elected representative to have a bit of fun. His voters seem to like it. He tops the poll in every election he participates in and is known for his 24 hour service to his constituents. What is utterly sickening about this is the kicking he received from fellow politicians who know him, know his anti sectarian principles and know he meant absolutely nothing to do with Kingsmills when he put that loaf of bread on his head. There was no rational or logical advantage for him to gain by mocking the victims of a sectarian outrage that even horrified senior IRA figures and happened during a ceasefire. But the poor victims and relatives were the last thing on the minds of those who decided that this would be a great piece of moral high ground to bash him around the place.

Precisely

I wonder how far back in time one would have to go for an example of when Sinn Fein and its supports actually found a Sinn Fein member doing something wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 09, 2018, 02:12:50 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 09, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Just remember. Barry McElduff wasn't mocking anyone. He was making fun of himself. It is not against the law for an elected representative to have a bit of fun. His voters seem to like it. He tops the poll in every election he participates in and is known for his 24 hour service to his constituents. What is utterly sickening about this is the kicking he received from fellow politicians who know him, know his anti sectarian principles and know he meant absolutely nothing to do with Kingsmills when he put that loaf of bread on his head. There was no rational or logical advantage for him to gain by mocking the victims of a sectarian outrage that even horrified senior IRA figures and happened during a ceasefire. But the poor victims and relatives were the last thing on the minds of those who decided that this would be a great piece of moral high ground to bash him around the place.

Yes, it's important to reiterate that the real victim here is poor Barry McElduff :(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 09, 2018, 02:14:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 09, 2018, 02:08:41 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on January 09, 2018, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 09, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Just remember. Barry McElduff wasn't mocking anyone. He was making fun of himself. It is not against the law for an elected representative to have a bit of fun. His voters seem to like it. He tops the poll in every election he participates in and is known for his 24 hour service to his constituents. What is utterly sickening about this is the kicking he received from fellow politicians who know him, know his anti sectarian principles and know he meant absolutely nothing to do with Kingsmills when he put that loaf of bread on his head. There was no rational or logical advantage for him to gain by mocking the victims of a sectarian outrage that even horrified senior IRA figures and happened during a ceasefire. But the poor victims and relatives were the last thing on the minds of those who decided that this would be a great piece of moral high ground to bash him around the place.

Precisely

I wonder how far back in time one would have to go for an example of when Sinn Fein and its supports actually found a Sinn Fein member doing something wrong.

Erm... 1.26pm today Wobbler.  ::)

And that's just on the GAA board.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 09, 2018, 02:15:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 12:32:26 PM
At the last UK election the 18 NI seats were divvied up between the DUP and SF. The SDLP was wiped out.
The politics in NI are completely polarised. It is more or less geographical as well.

SF have to prove that they are capable of delivering change that benefits voters. Otherwise voters will shaft them. 
Maybe the most interesting comment on this whole clusterfuck came regarding SF's respect equality and sectarianism agenda. It looks like plamas.

SF remind me a bit of the Tyrone footballers 2018 version. Very disciplined but no marquee forwards.

The All Ireland that SF are playing for is a United Ireland. They need to have the right people in place to take advantage of the UK's weakness. They need to be strategic. They need to think ahead. Maybe they can't. 

This has nothing to do with the Stardust. This is senior hurling.

I have been thinking about this for a while.  If you look at the long game then all Sinn Féin have to do here is not drop the ball.   Demographics are taking care of things.  In reality in a stalemate situation, it's the DUP that have to make a move.  Playing keep ball will only cost them as they need to widen their support base.  So really the onus is on them to broaden their appeal.  I see zero evidence of that or even an understanding of that from their utterances. 

I don't know the McElduff chap from Adam but I think that Shinners have mishandled things.  If he has done nothing wrong, then they should say so and back him.  By punishing him they are suggesting he did something wrong but by giving such a light punishment it seems like a fudge.  This halfway house effort will be grist to their critics' mills.

/Jim.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: square_ball on January 09, 2018, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 09, 2018, 02:08:41 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on January 09, 2018, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 09, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Just remember. Barry McElduff wasn't mocking anyone. He was making fun of himself. It is not against the law for an elected representative to have a bit of fun. His voters seem to like it. He tops the poll in every election he participates in and is known for his 24 hour service to his constituents. What is utterly sickening about this is the kicking he received from fellow politicians who know him, know his anti sectarian principles and know he meant absolutely nothing to do with Kingsmills when he put that loaf of bread on his head. There was no rational or logical advantage for him to gain by mocking the victims of a sectarian outrage that even horrified senior IRA figures and happened during a ceasefire. But the poor victims and relatives were the last thing on the minds of those who decided that this would be a great piece of moral high ground to bash him around the place.

Precisely

I wonder how far back in time one would have to go for an example of when Sinn Fein and its supports actually found a Sinn Fein member doing something wrong.

Sinn Fein could put Barney the dinosaur up for election in West Tyrone and he'd still get elected. I don't think it's a ringing endorsement to say he tops the polls all the time. It's another case of voting through orange and green eyes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on January 09, 2018, 02:22:40 PM
Just to be clear. Is Barry McElduff working in a 364 day window from which to take a video/photo of himself with a loaf of Kingsmill bread on his head each year?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on January 09, 2018, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 09, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Just remember. Barry McElduff wasn't mocking anyone. He was making fun of himself. It is not against the law for an elected representative to have a bit of fun. His voters seem to like it. He tops the poll in every election he participates in and is known for his 24 hour service to his constituents. What is utterly sickening about this is the kicking he received from fellow politicians who know him, know his anti sectarian principles and know he meant absolutely nothing to do with Kingsmills when he put that loaf of bread on his head. There was no rational or logical advantage for him to gain by mocking the victims of a sectarian outrage that even horrified senior IRA figures and happened during a ceasefire. But the poor victims and relatives were the last thing on the minds of those who decided that this would be a great piece of moral high ground to bash him around the place.

Maybe he wasn't however if he wasn't mocking then it doesn't say much for his level of intelligence. Either way he should have done the decent thing and resigned the position himself.

The standard of politician in the north is very poor, too many politicians more concerned about their social media profile and treating it as a career than actually serving the people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 09, 2018, 03:35:58 PM
Don't think someone like McElduff who is very active on social media would have posted something like this by accident so I doubt it's a private joke gone wrong. Likewise I don't see it as something he posted with malicious intent, that would be political suicide and even the most bitter of bigots in the TUV/DUP don't come out with stuff like that - what exactly would there be to gain by him publicly mocking innocent victims? I genuinely believe it's an unfortunate coincidence - it took 36 hours even for it  to even be noticed and it was the usual suspects lacing the boot in. SF I suppose had to do something, and whether it was intentional or not it was still highly offensive to the families of the victims and that has to be acknowledged - giving him the sack maybe a bit ott
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 03:39:22 PM
The new Leader has spoken
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-breaks-silence-on-kingsmill-controversy-and-defends-punishment-of-mp-36472207.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 03:41:35 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 09, 2018, 02:15:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 12:32:26 PM
At the last UK election the 18 NI seats were divvied up between the DUP and SF. The SDLP was wiped out.
The politics in NI are completely polarised. It is more or less geographical as well.

SF have to prove that they are capable of delivering change that benefits voters. Otherwise voters will shaft them. 
Maybe the most interesting comment on this whole clusterfuck came regarding SF's respect equality and sectarianism agenda. It looks like plamas.

SF remind me a bit of the Tyrone footballers 2018 version. Very disciplined but no marquee forwards.

The All Ireland that SF are playing for is a United Ireland. They need to have the right people in place to take advantage of the UK's weakness. They need to be strategic. They need to think ahead. Maybe they can't. 

This has nothing to do with the Stardust. This is senior hurling.

I have been thinking about this for a while.  If you look at the long game then all Sinn Féin have to do here is not drop the ball.   Demographics are taking care of things.  In reality in a stalemate situation, it's the DUP that have to make a move.  Playing keep ball will only cost them as they need to widen their support base.  So really the onus is on them to broaden their appeal.  I see zero evidence of that or even an understanding of that from their utterances. 

I don't know the McElduff chap from Adam but I think that Shinners have mishandled things.  If he has done nothing wrong, then they should say so and back him.  By punishing him they are suggesting he did something wrong but by giving such a light punishment it seems like a fudge.  This halfway house effort will be grist to their critics' mills.

/Jim.

It's called running with the hare and hunting with the hounds, a SF speciality
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 03:39:22 PM
The new Leader has spoken
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-breaks-silence-on-kingsmill-controversy-and-defends-punishment-of-mp-36472207.html

Maybe you could get some scientists or medical professionals to grow a spine for you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 09, 2018, 04:05:20 PM
Quote from: square_ball on January 09, 2018, 02:18:58 PM
Sinn Fein could put Barney the dinosaur up for election in West Tyrone and he'd still get elected. I don't think it's a ringing endorsement to say he tops the polls all the time. It's another case of voting through orange and green eyes.

They coukd sack Barry McElduff and force an election. They could then put up their candidate called "Barry Michael Duff"

Bazza would run as an independent, so it will be Barry McElduff versus Barry Michael Duff. That would be interesting.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 09, 2018, 04:13:17 PM
Ok guys, you are at work, you pull a stunt in the canteen at break time, nobody is hurt but some of your colleagues feel that you have offended them. you should have known they could take offence.
Your company tells the press your a bad boy and you'll face the consequences. They meet you after the incident has been debated ad naseum in the media. You get fired. There is no tangible proof you intended to offend your colleagues, is that fair?
McElduff is not funny, he should have known better and should in my opinion have known that a kingsmill loaf could in the hands of a republican be taken as being offensive.Leaving aside the trial by media, given that no one can know if he meant offence and taking him at his word it would not have been fair to deprive him of his livelihood? He has no record of being offensive and in his shoes given the bashing he took publicly from all including Declan Kearney I would have kept my seat in Westminister to protect my income. SF could not sack him on those grounds alone and that is before we consider fairness. He has been stupid, offended victims and paid a heavy price in how he has been publicly disowned by the party, give me an example from the DUP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on January 09, 2018, 04:17:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 09, 2018, 03:35:58 PM
Don't think someone like McElduff who is very active on social media would have posted something like this by accident so I doubt it's a private joke gone wrong. Likewise I don't see it as something he posted with malicious intent, that would be political suicide and even the most bitter of bigots in the TUV/DUP don't come out with stuff like that - what exactly would there be to gain by him publicly mocking innocent victims? I genuinely believe it's an unfortunate coincidence - it took 36 hours even for it  to even be noticed and it was the usual suspects lacing the boot in. SF I suppose had to do something, and whether it was intentional or not it was still highly offensive to the families of the victims and that has to be acknowledged - giving him the sack maybe a bit ott

A cursory glance on the Twittersphere would suggest otherwise
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 09, 2018, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 09, 2018, 04:13:17 PM
Ok guys, you are at work, you pull a stunt in the canteen at break time, nobody is hurt but some of your colleagues feel that you have offended them. you should have known they could take offence.
Your company tells the press your a bad boy and you'll face the consequences. They meet you after the incident has been debated ad naseum in the media. You get fired. There is no tangible proof you intended to offend your colleagues, is that fair?
McElduff is not funny, he should have known better and should in my opinion have known that a kingsmill loaf could in the hands of a republican be taken as being offensive.Leaving aside the trial by media, given that no one can know if he meant offence and taking him at his word it would not have been fair to deprive him of his livelihood? He has no record of being offensive and in his shoes given the bashing he took publicly from all including Declan Kearney I would have kept my seat in Westminister to protect my income. SF could not sack him on those grounds alone and that is before we consider fairness. He has been stupid, offended victims and paid a heavy price in how he has been publicly disowned by the party, give me an example from the DUP.

Different ball game when you are a politician, rightly or wrongly. Didn't a Tory minister resign before Xmas for touching a reporters knee (now known as sexual assault apparently). I would disagree that he has been disowned by SF, suspended for 3 months on full pay, not the harshest of punishments
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orchard park on January 09, 2018, 05:08:04 PM
SF,  6 counties members in particular have a fixation with the DUP and their members actions, i dont want republicanism to be judgds by its compariotive standing to fundamentalist loyalists. I want our standards to be way superior and on stupidity grounds alone McElduff is lucky to have gotten off so lightly
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 03:39:22 PM
The new Leader has spoken
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-breaks-silence-on-kingsmill-controversy-and-defends-punishment-of-mp-36472207.html

Maybe you could get some scientists or medical professionals to grow a spine for you?

????????
Take the loaf out of your brain space and try and make some sense😉
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 09, 2018, 05:20:08 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2018, 10:03:23 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 09, 2018, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 07:27:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 08, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
I have little time for SF in the 26 and will have even less when the awful Marylou is crowned.
I know where they're coming from in the 6 and where their sidekicks the Provo IRA were coming from.
The lads who shot the Kingsmill workers certainly deserve to be called terrorists anyway.

Just read into why the Kingsmill incident happened. And identify those that died. That's all I'm saying.

That's part of the problem with looking back at the past. All incidents are related in one way or another. Dealing with each in isolation leads to a narrative that my victims are more important than your victims.

Then you have to ask about how much the british knew about every attack - they had quite a number of spies and agents working for them on both sides.

I remember in the 1970's, it seemed that each murder was bringing us closer and closer to outright civil war and only one more would tip us over the edge.
Y

It's war, these were ordinary people doing things they would not do in the normal course of their lives.

What is more important to look at were those who could have intervened before things spiraled out of control but chose not to - The Free State and British Governments.
That defence wouldn't fly at the Hague

How did ye get away with Dunmanway so?
This is from someone who couldn't find his way to Dundonald never mind Dunmanway. Your friend got a three month suspension so he has plenty time to work on hisc comedy act for Britain's got talent

He doesn't take his seat in a British parliament. He's unlikely to participate in a British talent show. Well, not with that kind of "act" anyway.
I bet he takes the Queen's shilling. Of course all the Shinners do, some of them in cash from their handlers

Well of course he does. What the feck does that matter? The north uses sterling. Even if Lizzie's arsehole was on the notes, he'd use it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 05:21:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 03:39:22 PM
The new Leader has spoken
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-breaks-silence-on-kingsmill-controversy-and-defends-punishment-of-mp-36472207.html

Maybe you could get some scientists or medical professionals to grow a spine for you?

????????
Take the loaf out of your brain space and try and make some sense😉

You haven't the backbone to confront the dirt on your beloved FF, I think you may need to develop a spine to make that step.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 09, 2018, 05:23:22 PM
Quote from: square_ball on January 09, 2018, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 09, 2018, 02:08:41 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on January 09, 2018, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 09, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Just remember. Barry McElduff wasn't mocking anyone. He was making fun of himself. It is not against the law for an elected representative to have a bit of fun. His voters seem to like it. He tops the poll in every election he participates in and is known for his 24 hour service to his constituents. What is utterly sickening about this is the kicking he received from fellow politicians who know him, know his anti sectarian principles and know he meant absolutely nothing to do with Kingsmills when he put that loaf of bread on his head. There was no rational or logical advantage for him to gain by mocking the victims of a sectarian outrage that even horrified senior IRA figures and happened during a ceasefire. But the poor victims and relatives were the last thing on the minds of those who decided that this would be a great piece of moral high ground to bash him around the place.

Precisely

I wonder how far back in time one would have to go for an example of when Sinn Fein and its supports actually found a Sinn Fein member doing something wrong.

Sinn Fein could put Barney the dinosaur up for election in West Tyrone and he'd still get elected. I don't think it's a ringing endorsement to say he tops the polls all the time. It's another case of voting through orange and green eyes.

They should do that. Piss the DUP off even more, as they, as creationists, presumably don't believe in dinosaurs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 05:35:32 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 05:21:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 03:39:22 PM
The new Leader has spoken
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-breaks-silence-on-kingsmill-controversy-and-defends-punishment-of-mp-36472207.html

Maybe you could get some scientists or medical professionals to grow a spine for you?

????????
Take the loaf out of your brain space and try and make some sense😉

You haven't the backbone to confront the dirt on your beloved FF, I think you may need to develop a spine to make that step.
You really need to get out more.
This is the SF thread - any comment or view on Marylou's comments about Barry McEejit?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 05:39:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 05:35:32 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 05:21:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 09, 2018, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2018, 03:39:22 PM
The new Leader has spoken
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-breaks-silence-on-kingsmill-controversy-and-defends-punishment-of-mp-36472207.html

Maybe you could get some scientists or medical professionals to grow a spine for you?

????????
Take the loaf out of your brain space and try and make some sense😉

You haven't the backbone to confront the dirt on your beloved FF, I think you may need to develop a spine to make that step.
You really need to get out more.
This is the SF thread - any comment or view on Marylou's comments about Barry McEejit?

I know's its the SF thread, you seem to get senile dementia when it comes to the FF and FG thread. Why is that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 09, 2018, 09:16:16 PM
The bread manufacturers should really have been a little bit more careful when considering naming their produce.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 09, 2018, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 09, 2018, 09:16:16 PM
The bread manufacturers should really have been a little bit more careful when considering naming their produce.
Charming.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armamike on January 09, 2018, 10:01:53 PM
Poor stuff from McElduff. At best it's crass insensitivity and an awful lack of nous and judgement which suggests he's not fit to be a public representative.  I'd hate to think he actually knew what he was at.  It looks too coincidental though.

This is the problem Sinn Fein have when they set themselves up as the moral guardians around rights and respect.  The party can look pretty silly/cynical (whatever your viewpoint) when one member inevitably goes on a solo run.

We are very badly served by politicians here on both sides, and particularly the 2 main parties.  A lot of ineptitude, childish antics and buffonery and not much leadership and human decency it seems.

 

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on January 09, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
There's an old saying: "You get the politicians you deserve"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 10, 2018, 12:10:17 AM
Quote from: michaelg on January 09, 2018, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 09, 2018, 09:16:16 PM
The bread manufacturers should really have been a little bit more careful when considering naming their produce.
Charming.

Why have the newspapers continued to plaster the image over the front page of newspapers? If it is that upsetting, then...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 10, 2018, 12:19:33 AM
Quote from: Orior on January 10, 2018, 12:10:17 AM
Quote from: michaelg on January 09, 2018, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 09, 2018, 09:16:16 PM
The bread manufacturers should really have been a little bit more careful when considering naming their produce.
Charming.

Why have the newspapers continued to plaster the image over the front page of newspapers? If it is that upsetting, then...

"The papers are publishing our stupidity, surely it's not as bad as everyone is saying so"

Shinner logic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on January 10, 2018, 12:25:50 AM
I am amazed at this.Mc Elduff was silly but I did not think he meant any offence,just didn't think.That little bigoted bastard Allister picked up on it and a bandwagon started.

But if Mc Elduff is silly surely this does not compare to the late Ian Paisley's falsely branding of my good friend,Eugene Reavey (whose three brothers were shot dead on the eve of Kingsmills) as an IRA member,a claim made when Eugene's mother was alive,and was rubbished by all and sundry including the RUC Chief Constable,yet Paisley,unlike Mc Elduff,steadfastly refused to apologise.

This was ten times worse than Mc Elduff,even if Mc Elduff was being deliberately provocative,which I doubt
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on January 10, 2018, 02:26:31 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2018, 12:25:50 AM
I am amazed at this.Mc Elduff was silly but I did not think he meant any offence,just didn't think.That little bigoted b**tard Allister picked up on it and a bandwagon started.

But if Mc Elduff is silly surely this does not compare to the late Ian Paisley's falsely branding of my good friend,Eugene Reavey (whose three brothers were shot dead on the eve of Kingsmills) as an IRA member,a claim made when Eugene's mother was alive,and was rubbished by all and sundry including the RUC Chief Constable,yet Paisley,unlike Mc Elduff,steadfastly refused to apologise.

This was ten times worse than Mc Elduff,even if Mc Elduff was being deliberately provocative,which I doubt

yeah.....but that was probably 40 years ago. McElduff happened within the past week
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardtole on January 10, 2018, 08:35:30 AM
Quote from: whitey on January 10, 2018, 02:26:31 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2018, 12:25:50 AM
I am amazed at this.Mc Elduff was silly but I did not think he meant any offence,just didn't think.That little bigoted b**tard Allister picked up on it and a bandwagon started.

But if Mc Elduff is silly surely this does not compare to the late Ian Paisley's falsely branding of my good friend,Eugene Reavey (whose three brothers were shot dead on the eve of Kingsmills) as an IRA member,a claim made when Eugene's mother was alive,and was rubbished by all and sundry including the RUC Chief Constable,yet Paisley,unlike Mc Elduff,steadfastly refused to apologise.

This was ten times worse than Mc Elduff,even if Mc Elduff was being deliberately provocative,which I doubt

yeah.....but that was probably 40 years ago. McElduff happened within the past week

if you are using Paisley and the Dup as your benchmark for your moral standards then the bar is set at a very low level unfortunately.

I think Mcelduff should  have  had the decency to resign, there were too many coincidences for it not to be a deliberate "joke. That kind off stuff pissed me off and SF would have gained some credibility if they had been a bit more ruthless.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on January 10, 2018, 08:45:28 AM
Not 40...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/feb/12/6

Named in an effort to justify the murders of his innocent brothers which kingsmill was retaliation for
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: MoChara on January 10, 2018, 09:03:42 AM
I can't help but think Barry's been caught by a bit of bad luck, if he'd done this in the middle of August no one would have batted an eyelid other than think he's a bin lid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2018, 12:25:50 AM
I am amazed at this.Mc Elduff was silly but I did not think he meant any offence,just didn't think.That little bigoted b**tard Allister picked up on it and a bandwagon started.

But if Mc Elduff is silly surely this does not compare to the late Ian Paisley's falsely branding of my good friend,Eugene Reavey (whose three brothers were shot dead on the eve of Kingsmills) as an IRA member,a claim made when Eugene's mother was alive,and was rubbished by all and sundry including the RUC Chief Constable,yet Paisley,unlike Mc Elduff,steadfastly refused to apologise.

This was ten times worse than Mc Elduff,even if Mc Elduff was being deliberately provocative,which I doubt

This'll have to stop...that's twice in the past week I've agreed with Tony.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 09:16:41 AM
McElduff's daughter (who was there) has given some context which could be "vaguely plausible" as they say.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 10, 2018, 09:30:49 AM
Quote from: MoChara on January 10, 2018, 09:03:42 AM
I can't help but think Barry's been caught by a bit of bad luck, if he'd done this in the middle of August no one would have batted an eyelid other than think he's a bin lid.

Trying to reduce the damage by saying he's so stupid that he didn't know the context of what he was doing is a truly incredible defence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 10, 2018, 09:32:21 AM
What did the daughter say AQMP
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 10, 2018, 09:39:07 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 10, 2018, 09:30:49 AM
Quote from: MoChara on January 10, 2018, 09:03:42 AM
I can't help but think Barry's been caught by a bit of bad luck, if he'd done this in the middle of August no one would have batted an eyelid other than think he's a bin lid.

Trying to reduce the damage by saying he's so stupid that he didn't know the context of what he was doing is a truly incredible defence.

It's great fun watching the Shinners squirm and try to defend the muttonhead. Just shows that putting on a suit and trying to play serious politics is hard going when you have nothing between the ears like so many of the cult
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 10, 2018, 09:41:06 AM
Quote from: Minder on January 09, 2018, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 09, 2018, 04:13:17 PM
Ok guys, you are at work, you pull a stunt in the canteen at break time, nobody is hurt but some of your colleagues feel that you have offended them. you should have known they could take offence.
Your company tells the press your a bad boy and you'll face the consequences. They meet you after the incident has been debated ad naseum in the media. You get fired. There is no tangible proof you intended to offend your colleagues, is that fair?
McElduff is not funny, he should have known better and should in my opinion have known that a kingsmill loaf could in the hands of a republican be taken as being offensive.Leaving aside the trial by media, given that no one can know if he meant offence and taking him at his word it would not have been fair to deprive him of his livelihood? He has no record of being offensive and in his shoes given the bashing he took publicly from all including Declan Kearney I would have kept my seat in Westminister to protect my income. SF could not sack him on those grounds alone and that is before we consider fairness. He has been stupid, offended victims and paid a heavy price in how he has been publicly disowned by the party, give me an example from the DUP.

Different ball game when you are a politician, rightly or wrongly. Didn't a Tory minister resign before Xmas for touching a reporters knee (now known as sexual assault apparently). I would disagree that he has been disowned by SF, suspended for 3 months on full pay, not the harshest of punishments
A biy of a difference touching up a woman and confirming on video that you are a clown.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 10, 2018, 09:44:37 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 10, 2018, 09:39:07 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 10, 2018, 09:30:49 AM
Quote from: MoChara on January 10, 2018, 09:03:42 AM
I can't help but think Barry's been caught by a bit of bad luck, if he'd done this in the middle of August no one would have batted an eyelid other than think he's a bin lid.

Trying to reduce the damage by saying he's so stupid that he didn't know the context of what he was doing is a truly incredible defence.

It's great fun watching the Shinners squirm and try to defend the muttonhead. Just shows that putting on a suit and trying to play serious politics is hard going when you have nothing between the ears like so many of the cult
Ah the other side of the bomber coin. Number 1 not all SF reps are clowns. Number 2 all parties have at least one imbecile like McElduff. And number 3 in fairness to the shinners they have dealt with McElduff and McKay before him in a manner which other parties do not. You and the bomber should no by now that throwing insults about is not debate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 10:09:45 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 10, 2018, 09:32:21 AM
What did the daughter say AQMP

This is someone reporting and commenting on what Blathnaid McElduff tweeted:

Arlene Foster's bullshit costs NI taxpayers £490million - no punishment. I send my da to get a loaf of bread & he gets suspended for 3 months because he happened to pick Kingsmill bread on the anniversary of the Kingsmill Massacre. Coincidences aren't allowed apparently. 

She claims her da was picking her up to give her a lift home so she sent him in to the shop - McCullagh's Classic Service Station Spar in Omagh - to get a loaf and some other things for the house. She also claims the family eat Kingsmill, which is why Barry happened to choose that brand of loaf. This is plausible, in fairness, as it's a pretty common brand of bread.

Anyway, according to Blathnaid, Barry took the opportunity to embarrass her - by putting the loaf on his head - as well as to promote the local business by recording a video of himself doing this and stating where he was.

In fairness, it appears that Barry does have a thing for balancing everyday objects on his head. Here is a photo collage (sent to me on social media) of Barry at other times in the recent past with various items of food or drink (such as a bottle, a can and a chocolate bar) balanced on his head.

Barry's original tweet stated: "Fred, where do the McCullaghs keep the bread?"

As Blathnaid points out, the mention of "Fred" (which, of course, rhymes with "bread") is an obvious reference to an old Spar advert.  She emphasises that the date - the anniversary of the Kingsmill massacre - happened to be a horrible coincidence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on January 10, 2018, 10:36:19 AM
Quote from: MoChara on January 10, 2018, 09:03:42 AM
I can't help but think Barry's been caught by a bit of bad luck, if he'd done this in the middle of August no one would have batted an eyelid other than think he's a bin lid.

Try the 4th and 6th January.

Barry has a 364 day window to publish a photo or video of a loaf of Kingsmill on his head, that much is clear.

If he were to repeat the action on his first day back following suspension that would be ok wouldn't it because obviously it won't be 5th January.

Its a wonder the other inanimatie object resting on his head in previous adventures weren't equally assessed for relevance to any call issued during the war or having any connection with the war.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 10, 2018, 10:43:57 AM
Sure he's suspended (from what, it's not like he takes his seat in Westminster anyway!) on full pay - save the tears lads...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 10:47:18 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 10, 2018, 10:43:57 AM
Sure he's suspended (from what, it's not like he takes his seat in Westminster anyway!) on full pay - save the tears lads...

Who do you vote for?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 10:59:14 AM
Until the Summer I spent the previous 13 years living in England. I usually voted for independents who stood on platforms I believed in. In the recent general election I voted Labour. Before that I voted SF based on green v orange politics and family members standing for them. Now that my voting history is out of the way, I don't believe McElduff done this as a deliberate wind up. He was stupid. I don't think he realised it was the anniversary of Kingsmill. How many here can honestly say they knew? Don't want to comment on his punishment - or lack off.
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 11:37:54 AM
I note some commentators are now referencing the tins of Celebrations beside Barry too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 12:04:19 PM
The SDLP missed out on succession planning to follow the retirement of a high profile well connected leader.

So did the Shinners.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on January 10, 2018, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 10:59:14 AM
Until the Summer I spent the previous 13 years living in England. I usually voted for independents who stood on platforms I believed in. In the recent general election I voted Labour. Before that I voted SF based on green v orange politics and family members standing for them. Now that my voting history is out of the way, I don't believe McElduff done this as a deliberate wind up. He was stupid. I don't think he realised it was the anniversary of Kingsmill. How many here can honestly say they knew? Don't want to comment on his punishment - or lack off.
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth
tbf it was all over the news in the six counties that it was the anniversary, frig they even had willie frazer on the radio.
he is an elected representative so he should be smarter
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 10, 2018, 12:45:38 PM
Quote from: naka on January 10, 2018, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 10:59:14 AM
Until the Summer I spent the previous 13 years living in England. I usually voted for independents who stood on platforms I believed in. In the recent general election I voted Labour. Before that I voted SF based on green v orange politics and family members standing for them. Now that my voting history is out of the way, I don't believe McElduff done this as a deliberate wind up. He was stupid. I don't think he realised it was the anniversary of Kingsmill. How many here can honestly say they knew? Don't want to comment on his punishment - or lack off.
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth
tbf it was all over the news in the six counties that it was the anniversary, frig they even had willie frazer on the radio.
he is an elected representative so he should be smarter

In normal grown up politics you would have to resign over this, even if there was no offence intended, it's the perception. But usual rules don't apply here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 12:56:40 PM
Are all of the massacres publicly remembered or just the big ones ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_in_Northern_Ireland
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 01:10:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 12:56:40 PM
Are all of the massacres publicly remembered or just the big ones ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_in_Northern_Ireland

Only some.  As with all conflicts, there's a hierarchy of massacres.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathlin_Island_massacre

Is it time to move on??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 01:11:50 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 01:10:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 12:56:40 PM
Are all of the massacres publicly remembered or just the big ones ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_in_Northern_Ireland

Only some.  As with all conflicts, there's a hierarchy of massacres.

Unless you live in the 26 where they airbursh all massacres carried out by Republicans to win their freedom.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 01:34:45 PM
Yawwwwwnnn!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 01:36:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 01:34:45 PM
Yawwwwwnnn!!!

You don't seem to want to address the truth so quit whining when you're confronted with it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: naka on January 10, 2018, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 10:59:14 AM
Until the Summer I spent the previous 13 years living in England. I usually voted for independents who stood on platforms I believed in. In the recent general election I voted Labour. Before that I voted SF based on green v orange politics and family members standing for them. Now that my voting history is out of the way, I don't believe McElduff done this as a deliberate wind up. He was stupid. I don't think he realised it was the anniversary of Kingsmill. How many here can honestly say they knew? Don't want to comment on his punishment - or lack off.
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth
tbf it was all over the news in the six counties that it was the anniversary, frig they even had willie frazer on the radio.
he is an elected representative so he should be smarter

was it? I honestly did not see any of that. I am not, however, an elected representative
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 10, 2018, 01:48:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 01:11:50 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 01:10:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 12:56:40 PM
Are all of the massacres publicly remembered or just the big ones ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_in_Northern_Ireland

Only some.  As with all conflicts, there's a hierarchy of massacres.

Unless you live in the 26 where they airbursh all massacres carried out by Republicans to win their freedom.

Goldfish have better memories than the free staters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: naka on January 10, 2018, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 10:59:14 AM
Until the Summer I spent the previous 13 years living in England. I usually voted for independents who stood on platforms I believed in. In the recent general election I voted Labour. Before that I voted SF based on green v orange politics and family members standing for them. Now that my voting history is out of the way, I don't believe McElduff done this as a deliberate wind up. He was stupid. I don't think he realised it was the anniversary of Kingsmill. How many here can honestly say they knew? Don't want to comment on his punishment - or lack off.
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth
tbf it was all over the news in the six counties that it was the anniversary, frig they even had willie frazer on the radio.
he is an elected representative so he should be smarter

was it? I honestly did not see any of that. I am not, however, an elected representative

Neither did I.  I was genuinely unaware it was the anniversary over the weekend.  Mind you every day is an anniversary of something in the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: naka on January 10, 2018, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 10:59:14 AM
Until the Summer I spent the previous 13 years living in England. I usually voted for independents who stood on platforms I believed in. In the recent general election I voted Labour. Before that I voted SF based on green v orange politics and family members standing for them. Now that my voting history is out of the way, I don't believe McElduff done this as a deliberate wind up. He was stupid. I don't think he realised it was the anniversary of Kingsmill. How many here can honestly say they knew? Don't want to comment on his punishment - or lack off.
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth
tbf it was all over the news in the six counties that it was the anniversary, frig they even had willie frazer on the radio.
he is an elected representative so he should be smarter

was it? I honestly did not see any of that. I am not, however, an elected representative

Neither did I.  I was genuinely unaware it was the anniversary over the weekend.  Mind you every day is an anniversary of something in the North.
As was I.  Everyone I had spoken to was also unaware of the anniversary.  However everyone had the same opinion that it was unacceptable and he probably should resign.  I don't know how fair that is, when you don't know yourself, but I would expect our politicians, especially an elected MP or MLA to be aware of these sensitivities.  I think a lot of the disdain from nationalists over the incident is down to the fact that most think it bizarre and stupid for a politician to be posting clownish videos on social media.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on January 10, 2018, 02:21:37 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: naka on January 10, 2018, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 10:59:14 AM
Until the Summer I spent the previous 13 years living in England. I usually voted for independents who stood on platforms I believed in. In the recent general election I voted Labour. Before that I voted SF based on green v orange politics and family members standing for them. Now that my voting history is out of the way, I don't believe McElduff done this as a deliberate wind up. He was stupid. I don't think he realised it was the anniversary of Kingsmill. How many here can honestly say they knew? Don't want to comment on his punishment - or lack off.
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth
tbf it was all over the news in the six counties that it was the anniversary, frig they even had willie frazer on the radio.
he is an elected representative so he should be smarter

was it? I honestly did not see any of that. I am not, however, an elected representative

Not in the lead up to it, which was when the video was posted (late the night before)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 03:03:39 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: naka on January 10, 2018, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 10:59:14 AM
Until the Summer I spent the previous 13 years living in England. I usually voted for independents who stood on platforms I believed in. In the recent general election I voted Labour. Before that I voted SF based on green v orange politics and family members standing for them. Now that my voting history is out of the way, I don't believe McElduff done this as a deliberate wind up. He was stupid. I don't think he realised it was the anniversary of Kingsmill. How many here can honestly say they knew? Don't want to comment on his punishment - or lack off.
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth
tbf it was all over the news in the six counties that it was the anniversary, frig they even had willie frazer on the radio.
he is an elected representative so he should be smarter

was it? I honestly did not see any of that. I am not, however, an elected representative

Neither did I.  I was genuinely unaware it was the anniversary over the weekend.  Mind you every day is an anniversary of something in the North.
As was I.  Everyone I had spoken to was also unaware of the anniversary.  However everyone had the same opinion that it was unacceptable and he probably should resign.  I don't know how fair that is, when you don't know yourself, but I would expect our politicians, especially an elected MP or MLA to be aware of these sensitivities.  I think a lot of the disdain from nationalists over the incident is down to the fact that most think it bizarre and stupid for a politician to be posting clownish videos on social media.

I think this is spot on.  I can't say what McElduff's thinking was at the time of making or posting the video.  But this behaviour is idiotic.  The democratic vacuum has left some people with too much time on their hands (says he with nearly 3000 posts on an internet message board!).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 03:43:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 01:36:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 01:34:45 PM
Yawwwwwnnn!!!

You don't seem to want to address the truth so quit whining when you're confronted with it.
I'll take the facts from  more reliable and credible arbiters of truth than the likes of you and Eoghan Harris thanks very much.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 10, 2018, 03:55:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 10, 2018, 01:48:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 01:11:50 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 10, 2018, 01:10:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 12:56:40 PM
Are all of the massacres publicly remembered or just the big ones ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_in_Northern_Ireland

Only some.  As with all conflicts, there's a hierarchy of massacres.

Unless you live in the 26 where they airbursh all massacres carried out by Republicans to win their freedom.

Goldfish have better memories than the free staters.
Obviously the excess turps consumption has hit your memory
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 03:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 03:43:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 01:36:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 01:34:45 PM
Yawwwwwnnn!!!

You don't seem to want to address the truth so quit whining when you're confronted with it.
I'll take the facts from  more reliable and credible arbiters of truth than the likes of you and Eoghan Harris thanks very much.

Sounds like you want to talk out both sides of your mouth.

Looks like an affirmation that you are a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 04:23:26 PM
Bomber

I gather that you want to live in a United Ireland.  I hope you are able to seduce women better than you can bring southerners around to your way of thinking.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 10, 2018, 04:36:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 04:23:26 PM
Bomber

I gather that you want to live in a United Ireland.  I hope you are able to seduce women better than you can bring southerners around to your way of thinking.

I don't think a UI means pandering to Southerners. TBF Bomber (And Franko) has shown up a couple of southern posters who have been hypocritical in their posts. No harm in highlighting that as I'm sure they would do the same. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 10, 2018, 04:49:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 10, 2018, 04:36:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 04:23:26 PM
Bomber

I gather that you want to live in a United Ireland.  I hope you are able to seduce women better than you can bring southerners around to your way of thinking.

I don't think a UI means pandering to Southerners. TBF Bomber (And Franko) has shown up a couple of southern posters who have been hypocritical in their posts. No harm in highlighting that as I'm sure they would do the same.

You're wearing the Gerry Adams-tinted glasses if you think that lad has done anything bar make a show of himself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 04:57:08 PM
Agree with Syfīn for once.
Bombast keeps making a total tit of him/herself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 10, 2018, 04:59:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 04:57:08 PM
Agree with Syfīn for once.
Bombast keeps making a total tit of him/herself.

he has raised some good points, just posted them in the wrong place
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 05:13:06 PM
Bomber does look like  a tit. There was widespread condemnation of the Dunmanway murders at the time.

Imagine if he had as much contempt for Jolene Bunting as he does for poor old Rossfan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2018, 04:23:26 PM
Bomber

I gather that you want to live in a United Ireland.  I hope you are able to seduce women better than you can bring southerners around to your way of thinking.

I think the free state is a rotten state and if those lads are happy with their establishment parties and how they've behaved when given a free run at governance then I think it says everything you need to know about them. The problem with you guys is that you seem to think a United Ireland involves the South absorbing the North, I'm afraid that is not how it should work. I don't want to go from one rotten state to another.

You wouldn't be doing us a favour if Ireland was united as much as you might try and play it that way. Northern nationalists have by and large had to fight against the Unionists, British Government and Free State intransigence to come to the place we are in now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 10, 2018, 06:14:07 PM
Would it not be easier all round if the Brits pulled out tomorrow?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 06:25:11 PM
Bombast obviously never read any of my many posts of how I see the future All Ireland political identity.
People might engage with him when he stops using the term "freestate" and generalising 4.5 million of his fellow Irish people into his warped idea of what a "freestater" is.
Also stops mentioning some unprpven allegations and saying "Why aren't ye all as disgusted with this as I am?"
Meanwhile in the real world I have a match to go to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 10, 2018, 06:32:51 PM
The north is incapable of operating on its on and huge burden would hit the lifes of those down south if they had to take on the mess thats is the wee 6!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 06:25:11 PM
Bombast obviously never read any of my many posts of how I see the future All Ireland political identity.
People might engage with him when he stops using the term "freestate" and generalising 4.5 million of his fellow Irish people into his warped idea of what a "freestater" is.
Also stops mentioning some unprpven allegations and saying "Why aren't ye all as disgusted with this as I am?"
Meanwhile in the real world I have a match to go to.

Unfounded allegations hasn't stopped you from expressing your outrage before, only the political party at the centre of the accusations has.

I know you're not happy at being exposed as an establishment shill and hypocrite but if that's on you. The point as usual goes over your head, you are nowhere to be seen when controversy courts your state so I'll ask you this once again - why is that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 10, 2018, 06:32:51 PM
The north is incapable of operating on its on and huge burden would hit the lifes of those down south if they had to take on the mess thats is the wee 6!

The 26 is a mess in case you hadn't realised.

Both states have been failures.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 10, 2018, 06:43:55 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 10, 2018, 06:32:51 PM
The north is incapable of operating on its on and huge burden would hit the lifes of those down south if they had to take on the mess thats is the wee 6!

The 26 is a mess in case you hadn't realised.

Both states have been failures.

Tyrone football is a mess.
Kilkenny football is a mess.

Not quite the same mess.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 06:47:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2018, 06:43:55 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 10, 2018, 06:32:51 PM
The north is incapable of operating on its on and huge burden would hit the lifes of those down south if they had to take on the mess thats is the wee 6!

The 26 is a mess in case you hadn't realised.

Both states have been failures.

Tyrone football is a mess.
Kilkenny football is a mess.

Not quite the same mess.

And that's not quite the same parallel.

It's more like Antrim Football and Waterford Football.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 10, 2018, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 06:25:11 PM
Bombast obviously never read any of my many posts of how I see the future All Ireland political identity.
People might engage with him when he stops using the term "freestate" and generalising 4.5 million of his fellow Irish people into his warped idea of what a "freestater" is.
Also stops mentioning some unprpven allegations and saying "Why aren't ye all as disgusted with this as I am?"
Meanwhile in the real world I have a match to go to.

Unfounded allegations hasn't stopped you from expressing your outrage before, only the political party at the centre of the accusations has.

I know you're not happy at being exposed as an establishment shill and hypocrite but if that's on you. The point as usual goes over your head, you are nowhere to be seen when controversy courts your state so I'll ask you this once again - why is that?

Here's the options
A. rossfan is a Fine Gael supporter
B. rossfan is a blueshirt
c. rossfan is a tool

Take your pick :)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on January 10, 2018, 08:13:54 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 10, 2018, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 06:25:11 PM
Bombast obviously never read any of my many posts of how I see the future All Ireland political identity.
People might engage with him when he stops using the term "freestate" and generalising 4.5 million of his fellow Irish people into his warped idea of what a "freestater" is.
Also stops mentioning some unprpven allegations and saying "Why aren't ye all as disgusted with this as I am?"
Meanwhile in the real world I have a match to go to.

Unfounded allegations hasn't stopped you from expressing your outrage before, only the political party at the centre of the accusations has.

I know you're not happy at being exposed as an establishment shill and hypocrite but if that's on you. The point as usual goes over your head, you are nowhere to be seen when controversy courts your state so I'll ask you this once again - why is that?

When addressing, discussing or calling out quislings from the demilitrised zone you must understand that in their head its a race to the bottom to maintain the status quo. Happy enough to curry your yogurt, just so long as theirs isnt affected.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 10, 2018, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 10, 2018, 06:25:11 PM
Bombast obviously never read any of my many posts of how I see the future All Ireland political identity.
People might engage with him when he stops using the term "freestate" and generalising 4.5 million of his fellow Irish people into his warped idea of what a "freestater" is.
Also stops mentioning some unprpven allegations and saying "Why aren't ye all as disgusted with this as I am?"
Meanwhile in the real world I have a match to go to.

You mean that you prefer to hit for Kiltoom on a cold January night than stay in and be bamboozled by that gobshite
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 10, 2018, 08:28:18 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.

This
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: The Gs Man on January 11, 2018, 08:44:20 AM
DUP trying their best to even up the score in the race to the bottom with a very crass tweet from your man Stalford yesterday.

Highlights the blatant political point scoring that has been going on over the past few days.

No hope for this place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on January 11, 2018, 09:24:15 AM
At least McElduff took it down when someone pointed out it could be hurtful to families - Stalford refused on that basis, and said he'd only take it down if family directly asked him. Unreal!

It'll be interesting to see the furore around his actions, his parties subsequent actions, and reaction to whatever sanction he is hit with...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 11, 2018, 09:40:18 AM
what has stalford done?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: The Gs Man on January 11, 2018, 09:42:52 AM
http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/kingsmill-loaf-row-cartoon-sparks-14138836 (http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/kingsmill-loaf-row-cartoon-sparks-14138836)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2018, 10:21:11 AM
The politicans in this cesspit remind me of the International Rules a few years ago. Where the Aussies did what they wanted to the Irish players, as they knew they couldn't be punished as it was a one-off series.

The same applies here. Elected gobshites do and say what they want knowing their political career is unlikely to be affected. It will probably be enhanced. Jesus Christ, what a hellhole.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2018, 10:35:20 AM
I was just listening to an interview on Newstalk with Alan Black, the only survivor of Kingsmill, whose integrity contrasts sharply with the political class in the 6 counties. He was pretty critical of Paisley, re the Reaveys, and bigots in general so I wouldn't expect him to be impressed by Stalford. He also believes that the lack of investigation shows that Kingsmill was somehow connected to the British, probably because an informer was present.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 11, 2018, 10:39:49 AM
Il Bomber (and Franko it seems too) reminds me of North & South, which might be Christy Moore's (I know U2 co-wrote it but, let's be honest, everyone knows which is the canonical version) most under-rated and perfect song:

I want to reach out over the lough
And feel your hand across the water
Walk with you along an unapproved road
Not looking over my shoulder
I want to see
I want to hear
To understand your fears
But we're north and south of the river

I've been doing it wrong
All of my life
This holy town has turned me over
A young man running from what he didn't understand
As the wind from the lough just blew colder and colder

There was a badness that had its way
But love was not lost
It just got mislaid
North and south of the river

Can we stop playing these old tattoos?
Darling I don't have the answer
I want to meet you where you are
I don't need you to surrender
There is no feeling so alone
As when the one you're hurting is your own
North and south of the river

Some high ground is not worth taking
Some connections are not worth making
There's an old church bell no longer ringing
And some old songs not worth singing

North and south of the river
North and south of the river
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 11, 2018, 10:56:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 09, 2018, 11:20:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
Sinn Féin thread.
SF MP makes a clown of himself.
Along comes Bombast in full deflector mode and still at it 10 pages later.
Just admit your hero made a bigger title of himself than usual.
Then go off and open FG or FF  threads to your hearts content.

McElduff is a fool.  I don't believe he meant to cause offence but all the same, what a monumental balls up.  SF missed a gilt edged opportunity to put a lid on this by removing him from his post as an MP.  He should have been thrown under the bus.  If he's that good a local rep, let him stand for election next time on a local level.

By the same token, Bomber is making some points here that the usual suspects want to wriggle away from but can't.

There is a Mary Boyle thread.  Here are the responses by a few of the Shinnerbasherbots.

Owenmoresider

"SF can't try to smear their opponents about that though."

Rossfan

"Maria Cahill
Tom Oliver
Young Quinn
.........."

"Outrage from Shinners is always taken with a large handful of salt by normal folk."


There is also a thread on the Stardust fire.  Again, here's the replies;

Rossfan

"What a pity they wouldn't listen to your great mind and vote Provo SF.
Then we'd all be in a corruption free honourable zone where no Politician would tell a lie or own Holiday homes etc etc.
Also could you point out where the "State is obstruciting Justice" in the Stardust case."

Syferus

"It's disgusting to use something like the Stardust tragedy as a flimsy excuse to play party politics."



Anyone for another serving of deflection and whataboutery?

Looks like this one's going to be left hanging then lads?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 11:18:39 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 11, 2018, 10:56:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 09, 2018, 11:20:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
Sinn Féin thread.
SF MP makes a clown of himself.
Along comes Bombast in full deflector mode and still at it 10 pages later.
Just admit your hero made a bigger title of himself than usual.
Then go off and open FG or FF  threads to your hearts content.

McElduff is a fool.  I don't believe he meant to cause offence but all the same, what a monumental balls up.  SF missed a gilt edged opportunity to put a lid on this by removing him from his post as an MP.  He should have been thrown under the bus.  If he's that good a local rep, let him stand for election next time on a local level.

By the same token, Bomber is making some points here that the usual suspects want to wriggle away from but can't.

There is a Mary Boyle thread.  Here are the responses by a few of the Shinnerbasherbots.

Owenmoresider

"SF can't try to smear their opponents about that though."

Rossfan

"Maria Cahill
Tom Oliver
Young Quinn
.........."

"Outrage from Shinners is always taken with a large handful of salt by normal folk."


There is also a thread on the Stardust fire.  Again, here's the replies;

Rossfan

"What a pity they wouldn't listen to your great mind and vote Provo SF.
Then we'd all be in a corruption free honourable zone where no Politician would tell a lie or own Holiday homes etc etc.
Also could you point out where the "State is obstruciting Justice" in the Stardust case."

Syferus

"It's disgusting to use something like the Stardust tragedy as a flimsy excuse to play party politics."



Anyone for another serving of deflection and whataboutery?

Looks like this one's going to be left hanging then lads?

You can guarantee this will be left hanging, the FFbots and FGbots don't know the meaning of the word introspection.

The FG thread was left with tumbleweed nlowing through it when a FG minister was found to be fully aware of a smear campaign alleging a Garda whistleblower was a child molester. No outrage, sweep, sweep.

The FF thread has been left with tumbleweed blowing through it when it emerges FF have been aware for over a decade of allegations that one of their councillors was involved in obstructing the case for a missing 6 year old girl and stopping Gardai from questioning the main suspect. No outrage, sweep, sweep.

It's a bit like the way Tubridy shat himself a few years back when he tried to cajole Adams on the IRA, when Adams politely reminded him that his grandfather was in the IRA, Tubridy tried to say things were very different but when Adams asked how Tubridy couldn't respond and had to move things along.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on January 11, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 11, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 11, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.
Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on January 11, 2018, 12:15:47 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 11, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?
.

Point being: Wallace said in Dail that Sgt McCabe would have been buried if he did not record that conversation. That has now shown to be false. It has yet to be proven that Fitzgerald was part of a smear campaign. If proven true, I would expect shed'd be expelled unlike SF's punishment in this case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:38:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 11, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.
Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?

One happened in the midst of a bloody conflict.

The other didn't.

I don't think I'd have a hard time convincing people that Enniskillen was no worse than Dunmanway, which seems to have been airbrushed out of Free State history.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 04:27:38 PM
Does Bombast consider it alright to set off a bomb in the middle of a crowd like Enniskillen?
Seeing as he's concerned about Sgt McCabe does he/she condemn the murders of Gardai Hand, Quaid, McCabe, Sheehan,  Clerkin all killed by his/her Provo heroes?
Meanwhile he/she is berating anyone and everyone about 2 things about which there is conjecture but which haven't been proven and another supposition based on the views of Evil Eoghan Harris who has been revising History to coincide with his own and  Independent Newspapers prejudices for the last 30 years or more.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:38:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 11, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.
Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?

One happened in the midst of a bloody conflict.

The other didn't.

I don't think I'd have a hard time convincing people that Enniskillen was no worse than Dunmanway, which seems to have been airbrushed out of Free State history.
Dunmanway was widely condemned including by the IRA.
Killing civilians contravenes the rules of war.
I wouldn't defend the Birmingham pub bombings under the fog of war either.
Marylou has awful problems trying to justify the murder of civilians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 11, 2018, 04:51:02 PM
Shinners don't do introspection, Sea.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 04:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 04:27:38 PM
Does Bombast consider it alright to set off a bomb in the middle of a crowd like Enniskillen?
Seeing as he's concerned about Sgt McCabe does he/she condemn the murders of Gardai Hand, Quaid, McCabe, Sheehan,  Clerkin all killed by his/her Provo heroes?
Meanwhile he/she is berating anyone and everyone about 2 things about which there is conjecture but which haven't been proven and another supposition based on the views of Evil Eoghan Harris who has been revising History to coincide with his own and  Independent Newspapers prejudices for the last 30 years or more.

I consider it as alright as it was to slaughter 13 men and boys down in Dunmanway, which you obviously think is ok.

Just like neo-Nazis deny the Holocaust, Free Staters like you deny Dunmanway.

Are you aware the IRA killed hundreds of RIC officers during the War of Independence?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:38:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 11, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.
Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?

One happened in the midst of a bloody conflict.

The other didn't.

I don't think I'd have a hard time convincing people that Enniskillen was no worse than Dunmanway, which seems to have been airbrushed out of Free State history.
Dunmanway was widely condemned including by the IRA.
Killing civilians contravenes the rules of war.
I wouldn't defend the Birmingham pub bombings under the fog of war either.
Marylou has awful problems trying to justify the murder of civilians.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael would know all about the killings of civilians so I don't see why SF would have to justify anything to them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 05:20:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:38:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 11, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.
Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?

One happened in the midst of a bloody conflict.

The other didn't.

I don't think I'd have a hard time convincing people that Enniskillen was no worse than Dunmanway, which seems to have been airbrushed out of Free State history.
Dunmanway was widely condemned including by the IRA.
Killing civilians contravenes the rules of war.
I wouldn't defend the Birmingham pub bombings under the fog of war either.
Marylou has awful problems trying to justify the murder of civilians.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael would know all about the killings of civilians so I don't see why SF would have to justify anything to them.
Once you are justifying atrocities you are losing. Women in the South will not vote for atrocities . Getting you onto this subject is trapping you.
SF has to think about how to get where it wants to go. Otherwise it is tooling around. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 05:30:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 05:20:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:38:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 11, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.
Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?

One happened in the midst of a bloody conflict.

The other didn't.

I don't think I'd have a hard time convincing people that Enniskillen was no worse than Dunmanway, which seems to have been airbrushed out of Free State history.
Dunmanway was widely condemned including by the IRA.
Killing civilians contravenes the rules of war.
I wouldn't defend the Birmingham pub bombings under the fog of war either.
Marylou has awful problems trying to justify the murder of civilians.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael would know all about the killings of civilians so I don't see why SF would have to justify anything to them.
Once you are justifying atrocities you are losing. Women in the South will not vote for atrocities . Getting you onto this subject is trapping you.
SF has to think about how to get where it wants to go. Otherwise it is tooling around.

Once you are talking out both sides of your mouth you are losing.

Atrocities are part and parcel of war, you look at any conflict through the years - terrible acts will have been carried out on both sides- the fact that the Irish and British Government did nothing to tackle a rampant sectarian statelet made war an inevitability. The fact that the free state continues to moralise and pontificate to Norther nationalists on the acts of armed republicans during the troubles stinks when they have never confronted the atrocities they carried out for their own freedom.

As much as you would like to, you can't have it both ways.

If women in the south won't vote for atrocities, then they should be reminded who exactly they are voting for - Ballyseedy? Dunmanway? Lemass? Collins?

Maybe Free Staters should learn some history about their own state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 05:34:28 PM
Dunmanway killings were done by the anti treaty IRA for a start.
Secondly they believed they had evidence that many of those killed had been active in anti Volunteer activities and had been informing British soldiers and Auxiliaries of volunteer activities etc.
I am not aware of either Fianna Fáil , founded 1926/7 or Fine Gael, founded 1934 killing civilians deliberately or accidently.

The RIC were armed combatants in a War,
The Gardai were unarmed and we're mown down by Provos who if they were true Republicans would not have been militarily active in the 26 Cos.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 05:34:28 PM
Dunmanway killings were done by the anti treaty IRA for a start.
Secondly they believed they had evidence that many of those killed had been active in anti Volunteer activities and had been informing British soldiers and Auxiliaries of volunteer activities etc.
I am not aware of either Fianna Fáil , founded 1926/7 or Fine Gael, founded 1934 killing civilians deliberately or accidently.

The RIC were armed combatants in a War,
The Gardai were unarmed and we're mown down by Provos who if they were true Republicans would not have been militarily active in the 26 Cos.

You're not aware of FG and FF having gunmen and their dynasties who were leading figures in the IRA being elected members of their party.

I hope you keep engaging with me. Anti-treaty IRA (Fianna Fail) and Pro-treay IRA (Fine Gael) have plenty of blood on their hands, there was no truth and reconciliation for the Irish Civil War which cost hundreds of civilian lives in your state, mindless bloodshed with the combatants holding the highest offices of power in the land - but these killers were ok - it's just the ones up North where your contention lie with?

For once why can't you show us you are genuine and face down your own state's shameless bloody past?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: east down gael on January 11, 2018, 05:47:34 PM
The last week has underlined for me how far gone politics in the north is. Maybe i'm missing something here,but there is no way McElduff meant that in the way he has been accused of.not a single doubt in my mind.not a shinnerbot,not a Sinn Fein voter but I do follow politics. I don't find McElduff entertaining,more cringeworthy.but he's been hung out to dry here.
  It's understandable the DUP jumping on this bandwagon,with the amount of similar blunders they have made,they must have thought their prayers had been answered.even possibly the UUP to a lesser extent. I was disappointed however with the SDLP and their response to the situation. I'm presuming some,the likes of Mccrossan,would know McElduff well enough through work to know he wouldn't have meant the video to be offensive.yet they chose political point scoring as their priority,and along with the other parties,are the people I would hold responsible for this horrible attrocity being dragged back up and causing fresh grief for the relatives.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 11, 2018, 06:02:22 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 05:34:28 PM
Dunmanway killings were done by the anti treaty IRA for a start.
Secondly they believed they had evidence that many of those killed had been active in anti Volunteer activities and had been informing British soldiers and Auxiliaries of volunteer activities etc.
I am not aware of either Fianna Fáil , founded 1926/7 or Fine Gael, founded 1934 killing civilians deliberately or accidently.

The RIC were armed combatants in a War,
The Gardai were unarmed and we're mown down by Provos who if they were true Republicans would not have been militarily active in the 26 Cos.

You're not aware of FG and FF having gunmen and their dynasties who were leading figures in the IRA being elected members of their party.

I hope you keep engaging with me. Anti-treaty IRA (Fianna Fail) and Pro-treay IRA (Fine Gael) have plenty of blood on their hands, there was no truth and reconciliation for the Irish Civil War which cost hundreds of civilian lives in your state, mindless bloodshed with the combatants holding the highest offices of power in the land - but these killers were ok - it's just the ones up North where your contention lie with?

For once why can't you show us you are genuine and face down your own state's shameless bloody past?

I think that's the part that the likes of Rossfan can't understand. He doesn't understand the loyalty that the majority of Catholics in the North have towards the members of SF. Alot of them men literally laid down their lives trying to secure an equality that we now have. Consider someone like Gerry Kelly or even McGuinness. Both live or lived among the people. The people of the North respect them for two reasons:
1. When there was dirty work to be done and defending to be done they led the line.
2. Even now when there's less dirty work to be done, Gerry Kelly is being driven on top of a landrover as ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE.

Then we have people saying that Bomber is a SF bot. He's not. He's just calling out the hypocrites on their blind eye policy. If Collins and De Valera, had fought with the brit establishment to give up the West instead of the North, I reckon we would have had a completely different outcome, those in the West would be happy to lie down and have everything they stood for denounced. So forgive me or Bomber or anyone else if we don't jump on the ''Bash Barry'' bus. For all you non believers about McElduff, drive to Carrickmore for a Championship game and you will find him there with his luminous green Carmen top on among his people, and the people don't forget that ( as opposed to as was suggested earlier that the people of West Tyrone don't know any better.)

I suggest that you just let it go Bomber, these Free Staters just don't get it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 11, 2018, 06:11:30 PM
Quote from: east down gael on January 11, 2018, 05:47:34 PM
The last week has underlined for me how far gone politics in the north is. Maybe i'm missing something here,but there is no way McElduff meant that in the way he has been accused of.not a single doubt in my mind.not a shinnerbot,not a Sinn Fein voter but I do follow politics. I don't find McElduff entertaining,more cringeworthy.but he's been hung out to dry here.
  It's understandable the DUP jumping on this bandwagon,with the amount of similar blunders they have made,they must have thought their prayers had been answered.even possibly the UUP to a lesser extent. I was disappointed however with the SDLP and their response to the situation. I'm presuming some,the likes of Mccrossan,would know McElduff well enough through work to know he wouldn't have meant the video to be offensive.yet they chose political point scoring as their priority,and along with the other parties,are the people I would hold responsible for this horrible attrocity being dragged back up and causing fresh grief for the relatives.
How's it  look through your green tinted specs?  In summary, all Prods are bigots and Nationalists and Republicans are the good guys, without a  sectarian bone in their bodies.  Can you even countenance the possibility that little Barry knew exactly what he was doing?  Did you ever study probability at school?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2018, 06:18:07 PM
Maybe SF and DUP are in cahoots. I mean, no assembly for a year. Under pressure to get talking, sort things out etc. But the news is full of loaf of bread, cartoons, curry my yogurt type statements. It's all a diversion from them actually getting off their holes and doing something!

Maybe they're deliberately at it (ironically, both agreeing to it). Both parties are unlikely to have voting affected anyway, so it's a win win for both parties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: east down gael on January 11, 2018, 06:21:53 PM
Come again?you've picked me up wrong there I think.i don't understand how you've come to your conclusion from what i've said.in answer to your question tho,no.i genuinely don't believe he did make the video in the spirit you think.it would be so unbelievably bad,I can't think of a word strong enough to say how stupid it would be.i don't think i've ever met anyone who would find it funny if it were intended as you think.
   For the record I don't think all Protestant/unionist people are bigots and nationalist/catholic people are not.truly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 06:39:42 PM
If present day FF and FG have blood on their hands because of what their predecessors may have done then -
The Provo Army Council and it's successors SF, have inherited guilt for Dunmanway because
The Provo Army Council were appointed as the True  Government of the Republic by Comdt.General Maguire the last survivor of the 2nd Dàil.
Just wondering how planting a bomb in the middle of a large gathering in 1987 could advance the securing of equality for Northern Nationalists?
How did fire bombing a hotel while a function was being held do so?
How did the killing of Gerry McCabe do so?
How did leaving a bomb in a rubbish bin in Warrington do so?

Ye're free to vote for who ye like up North - some prize specimens have been elected alright God Help us!!!! With the DUPUDA providing most of them.

However the Shinners will have major problems getting beyond 15% in the 26 and especially if Bomber and others keep up their "free state (sic) bad SF wonderful" mantra.

I suspect we'll see Marylou appointed Leader to get away from the warlords/Army Council leadership and a load of bright young shiny untainted candidates for the next election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 11, 2018, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 06:39:42 PM
If present day FF and FG have blood on their hands because of what their predecessors may have done then -
The Provo Army Council and it's successors SF, have inherited guilt for Dunmanway because
The Provo Army Council were appointed as the True  Government of the Republic by Comdt.General Maguire the last survivor of the 2nd Dàil.
Just wondering how planting a bomb in the middle of a large gathering in 1987 could advance the securing of equality for Northern Nationalists?
How did fire bombing a hotel while a function was being held do so?
How did the killing of Gerry McCabe do so?
How did leaving a bomb in a rubbish bin in Warrington do so?

Ye're free to vote for who ye like up North - some prize specimens have been elected alright God Help us!!!! With the DUPUDA providing most of them.

However the Shinners will have major problems getting beyond 15% in the 26 and especially if Bomber and others keep up their "free state (sic) bad SF wonderful" mantra.

I suspect we'll see Marylou appointed Leader to get away from the warlords/Army Council leadership and a load of bright young shiny untainted candidates for the next election.

It doesn't matter if you understand how them incidents advanced the securing of equality....they did.  No SF will have more difficulty electing getting beyond 15% in the south, if the people of the South continually turn a blind eye to their own murky, violent history whilst constantly looking down at us in the North because of ours. We only need to look at the way Martin McGuiness was treated when he was running for President in the South, it was despicable, yet De Valera whilst a brilliant man had blood on his hands too but is basically a hero in the South.

I agree, the appointments of Mary Lou and Michelle O'Neill will bring about wholesale changes in the public face of SF, but the fact will always remain that the present voters of SF will never forget those that came before them and the work they did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 07:17:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 06:39:42 PM
If present day FF and FG have blood on their hands because of what their predecessors may have done then -
The Provo Army Council and it's successors SF, have inherited guilt for Dunmanway because
The Provo Army Council were appointed as the True  Government of the Republic by Comdt.General Maguire the last survivor of the 2nd Dàil.
Just wondering how planting a bomb in the middle of a large gathering in 1987 could advance the securing of equality for Northern Nationalists?
How did fire bombing a hotel while a function was being held do so?
How did the killing of Gerry McCabe do so?
How did leaving a bomb in a rubbish bin in Warrington do so?

Ye're free to vote for who ye like up North - some prize specimens have been elected alright God Help us!!!! With the DUPUDA providing most of them.

However the Shinners will have major problems getting beyond 15% in the 26 and especially if Bomber and others keep up their "free state (sic) bad SF wonderful" mantra.

I suspect we'll see Marylou appointed Leader to get away from the warlords/Army Council leadership and a load of bright young shiny untainted candidates for the next election.

How did Jack Lynch saying the Free State would not stand idly by when Catholics were being beat off the streets for demanding their equality and basic human rights, before idly standing by and watching British Troops, the state police force and loyalist mobs burning nationalists out of their home and murdering them advance the security of equality in the North.

Nationalists were abandoned by the south, we tried a civil rights movement which only increased loyalist and police state force violence. Nationalists had to stand up for themselves as nobody else would. This started a war and a war never goes well for anyone. I don't condone everything the Provos did, but these were not ordinary times, these were young guys by and large who would never be drawn into violence in a normal society and they put their lives on the line. You wouldn't understand, a spell under the Brits in 70-80's Occupied Ulster would have done you the world of good.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on January 11, 2018, 08:08:25 PM
Quote from: east down gael on January 11, 2018, 05:47:34 PM
The last week has underlined for me how far gone politics in the north is. Maybe i'm missing something here,but there is no way McElduff meant that in the way he has been accused of.not a single doubt in my mind.not a shinnerbot,not a Sinn Fein voter but I do follow politics. I don't find McElduff entertaining,more cringeworthy.but he's been hung out to dry here.
  It's understandable the DUP jumping on this bandwagon,with the amount of similar blunders they have made,they must have thought their prayers had been answered.even possibly the UUP to a lesser extent. I was disappointed however with the SDLP and their response to the situation. I'm presuming some,the likes of Mccrossan,would know McElduff well enough through work to know he wouldn't have meant the video to be offensive.yet they chose political point scoring as their priority,and along with the other parties,are the people I would hold responsible for this horrible attrocity being dragged back up and causing fresh grief for the relatives.

You can practically see the ambition seeping out of that odious little c**t. If I were Colum Eastwood I'd seriously watch my back
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 11, 2018, 08:31:04 PM
Sure everyone gets a wee turn to be SDLP leader for a day or two eventually.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 09:14:28 PM
Still can't see how planting a bomb in the middle of a large gathering in 1987 could do anything to advance equality for Northern Nationalists no matter what Lynch did or didn't do in 1969.
It is very hard to avoid the impression that it was a nasty sectarian killing.
If they wanted to disrupt the Fermanagh Unionists' big day they could have left a few hoax devices around and made a string of hoax bomb calls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2018, 10:01:27 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 07:17:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 06:39:42 PM
If present day FF and FG have blood on their hands because of what their predecessors may have done then -
The Provo Army Council and it's successors SF, have inherited guilt for Dunmanway because
The Provo Army Council were appointed as the True  Government of the Republic by Comdt.General Maguire the last survivor of the 2nd Dàil.
Just wondering how planting a bomb in the middle of a large gathering in 1987 could advance the securing of equality for Northern Nationalists?
How did fire bombing a hotel while a function was being held do so?
How did the killing of Gerry McCabe do so?
How did leaving a bomb in a rubbish bin in Warrington do so?

Ye're free to vote for who ye like up North - some prize specimens have been elected alright God Help us!!!! With the DUPUDA providing most of them.

However the Shinners will have major problems getting beyond 15% in the 26 and especially if Bomber and others keep up their "free state (sic) bad SF wonderful" mantra.

I suspect we'll see Marylou appointed Leader to get away from the warlords/Army Council leadership and a load of bright young shiny untainted candidates for the next election.

How did Jack Lynch saying the Free State would not stand idly by when Catholics were being beat off the streets for demanding their equality and basic human rights, before idly standing by and watching British Troops, the state police force and loyalist mobs burning nationalists out of their home and murdering them advance the security of equality in the North.

Nationalists were abandoned by the south, we tried a civil rights movement which only increased loyalist and police state force violence. Nationalists had to stand up for themselves as nobody else would. This started a war and a war never goes well for anyone. I don't condone everything the Provos did, but these were not ordinary times, these were young guys by and large who would never be drawn into violence in a normal society and they put their lives on the line. You wouldn't understand, a spell under the Brits in 70-80's Occupied Ulster would have done you the world of good.
Dolours Price believed in the romance of it. She did the bombing and everything but she couldn't deal with the aftermath. She drank herself to death. She didn't want to understand. Too disturbing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 11, 2018, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 09:14:28 PM
Still can't see how planting a bomb in the middle of a large gathering in 1987 could do anything to advance equality for Northern Nationalists no matter what Lynch did or didn't do in 1969.
It is very hard to avoid the impression that it was a nasty sectarian killing.
If they wanted to disrupt the Fermanagh Unionists' big day they could have left a few hoax devices around and made a string of hoax bomb calls.

I agree with Rossfan. I still don't know why the catholics in northern ireland just didn't nicely ask the unionists to treat them better either. Would have saved a lot of bother.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 10:24:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 09:14:28 PM
Still can't see how planting a bomb in the middle of a large gathering in 1987 could do anything to advance equality for Northern Nationalists no matter what Lynch did or didn't do in 1969.
It is very hard to avoid the impression that it was a nasty sectarian killing.
If they wanted to disrupt the Fermanagh Unionists' big day they could have left a few hoax devices around and made a string of hoax bomb calls.

The same way as I have failed to see how shooting a number of innocents the IRA killed during their War of Independence served to further the advance Ireland's quest for freedom but you have no interest in dealing with your own state's murky past now do you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 10:28:05 PM
In February 1921, for example, the 93 deaths recorded made it the worst month of the conflict for deaths. But the 39 IRA deaths were almost matched by 30 civilians who died, including eight killed on February 15 in the IRA's disastrous Upton train ambush.


Upton train station in west Cork, where three IRA volunteers and eight civilians were killed on February 15, 1921. Picture: Irish Examiner photographic archive
"It's one of the most egregious examples of commemoration, where three IRA volunteers who were killed are regularly remembered. Eight civilians died when the train carrying British personnel was attacked, but hardly anything is ever mentioned of that," said Mr Bielenberg.

Up to July 1921, civilians were more likely to be killed by the IRA than by British police or military forces. This controversial aspect of the Irish revolution has already been well explored by the work of Bielenberg and Donnelly in the Cork Spy Files, an examination of known or alleged informers killed by the IRA and published last year on The Irish Revolution website.

Cork's War of Independence Fatality Register is online at theirishrevolution.ie.

Andy Bielenberg will give a free public lecture on the project at UCC's civil engineering building this Wednesday, May 17, at 6pm


It's like the Free State has tried to airbrush the innocent lives their heroes took in their quest for freedom.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 10:38:05 PM
AROUND 200 PEOPLE were 'disappeared' by the old IRA throughout the War of Independence and Civil War, according to a documentary to be screened on Monday evening.

TCD Professor Eunan O'Halpin hosts the two-part programme, which is based on research he has carried out over a decade into the victims of the Irish War of Independence and the Irish Civil War.

He points out that details of the cases of many of the 'disappeared' may be contained in the National Archives but that, as of 90 years later, thousands of Department of Justice and Defence files remain closed. He says:

Ninety years on, it's surely time that we knew what these contained. The families of the dead, and the public generally, have a right to know how and why these people died.
O'Halpin has a personal interest in the period. Both of his grandfathers were senior IRA officers, his maternal grandmother a leading anti-Treaty activist and two of his great-uncles were killed. One of these was Paddy Moloney, who was shot dead outside Tipperary town in May 1921. The other was Kevin Barry, who was immortalised in song after his execution by hanging in Dublin by the British authorities in November 1920.

However, says O'Halpin, the IRA of the time was also responsible for its share of disappearances and murders in this period. (During the Civil War, Free State forces were also responsible for a share of murderous violence, he adds, and RIC policemen were frequently involved in swift reprisals for murders by the IRA, as well as the Black and Tans.)

In 1920 and 1921 at least 200 people were abducted, executed and their bodies hidden by the then IRA, says O'Halpin. Over 180 of these were civilians as well as policemen and soldiers. The identities of these people are difficult to establish. He says:

Many families who suffered the disappearance of a loved one never had a body to bury or a chance to grieve properly or a chance to commemorate their loss.
Were they spies? Were they informers? Some were; some were not.

Some murders, O'Halpin establishes, were motivated by incompetency, misinformation or even, sometimes, to settle an old score. Some were shot and buried in a wood, field or bog; some unfortunates had their hands and feet bound and dumped, alive, in rivers or lakes to drown.

O'Halpin's research leads him to commission archaeologists to carry out investigations into local stories about the bodies of two executed men from Tipperary being buried on a farm in Co Laois. Research at the National Archives in Dublin reveals that two men did disappear from north Tipperary in the period pinpointed by the then-farm owner.

The results of his enquiries into this case and others, and the overall context of the disappearances can be seen on Monday, 18 March, on In The Name of the Republic, TV3, 9pm.

Interesting, one would think Michael Martin parading that patsy Austin Stack around the place would demand some of these files be opened, or maybe he's not sincere in his wishes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.

I've waded through approx 10 pages and can't find it. What is it? And Bomber would you stop calling us freestaters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 11:10:05 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.

I've waded through approx 10 pages and can't find it. What is it? And Bomber would you stop calling us freestaters.

Why? Does it shame you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2018, 11:24:51 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 11:10:05 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.

I've waded through approx 10 pages and can't find it. What is it? And Bomber would you stop calling us freestaters.

Why? Does it shame you?

I don't know how to answer this question. I do however believe the Northern nationalists were right to do what they did, i.e, you know take up arms and fight for their rights.

I hate the establishment in this country and it sickens me that the Catholic church ran it for so long. Btw, the church's hierarchy were historically anti-republican. Dev was in cahoots with them so maybe that's why he was seen as ok. The only good thing I think he did was keep 'us' out of WW2. Us as us down south.

I agree with you on the point that you're saying re Dunmanway and the conflict by the  Provos in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s. I spoke to someone who remarked, imagine McGuinness in the Áras and him an IRA man... I told him, he wouldn't be the first one 

Should it shame me?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2018, 11:30:31 PM
What the hell you going through stuff from nearly a 100yrs ago! Were u alive for any of it? You only making a fool of uself on here bomber!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 11:48:05 PM
Do all the Meath folk feel shame because Malachi drowned Turgéis in Lough Owel back in the 10th Century?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: amanda on January 12, 2018, 12:17:24 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 11, 2018, 09:40:18 AM
what has stalford done?
Do you think he really had yo be reminded that it was offensive.
Honestly Guv I had no idea!
He's a fucken Clampet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 12, 2018, 12:49:16 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 11:48:05 PM
Do all the Meath folk feel shame because Malachi drowned Turgéis in Lough Owel back in the 10th Century?

The Louth lads still haven't forgiven us for taking Donn Cúailnge.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 05:55:01 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/noel-whelan-kingsmill-row-shows-north-s-failure-to-address-the-past-1.3352182
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omaghjoe on January 12, 2018, 06:31:20 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 11, 2018, 06:02:22 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 05:34:28 PM
Dunmanway killings were done by the anti treaty IRA for a start.
Secondly they believed they had evidence that many of those killed had been active in anti Volunteer activities and had been informing British soldiers and Auxiliaries of volunteer activities etc.
I am not aware of either Fianna Fáil , founded 1926/7 or Fine Gael, founded 1934 killing civilians deliberately or accidently.

The RIC were armed combatants in a War,
The Gardai were unarmed and we're mown down by Provos who if they were true Republicans would not have been militarily active in the 26 Cos.

You're not aware of FG and FF having gunmen and their dynasties who were leading figures in the IRA being elected members of their party.

I hope you keep engaging with me. Anti-treaty IRA (Fianna Fail) and Pro-treay IRA (Fine Gael) have plenty of blood on their hands, there was no truth and reconciliation for the Irish Civil War which cost hundreds of civilian lives in your state, mindless bloodshed with the combatants holding the highest offices of power in the land - but these killers were ok - it's just the ones up North where your contention lie with?

For once why can't you show us you are genuine and face down your own state's shameless bloody past?

I think that's the part that the likes of Rossfan can't understand. He doesn't understand the loyalty that the majority of Catholics in the North have towards the members of SF. Alot of them men literally laid down their lives trying to secure an equality that we now have. Consider someone like Gerry Kelly or even McGuinness. Both live or lived among the people. The people of the North respect them for two reasons:
1. When there was dirty work to be done and defending to be done they led the line.
2. Even now when there's less dirty work to be done, Gerry Kelly is being driven on top of a landrover as ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE.

Then we have people saying that Bomber is a SF bot. He's not. He's just calling out the hypocrites on their blind eye policy. If Collins and De Valera, had fought with the brit establishment to give up the West instead of the North, I reckon we would have had a completely different outcome, those in the West would be happy to lie down and have everything they stood for denounced. So forgive me or Bomber or anyone else if we don't jump on the ''Bash Barry'' bus. For all you non believers about McElduff, drive to Carrickmore for a Championship game and you will find him there with his luminous green Carmen top on among his people, and the people don't forget that ( as opposed to as was suggested earlier that the people of West Tyrone don't know any better.)

I suggest that you just let it go Bomber, these Free Staters just don't get it.

thats reason enuff to bash Barry for me
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 12, 2018, 08:27:59 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.

I've waded through approx 10 pages and can't find it. What is it? And Bomber would you stop calling us freestaters.
first post at the top of page 317
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 09:44:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 11:48:05 PM
Do all the Meath folk feel shame because Malachi drowned Turgéis in Lough Owel back in the 10th Century?

so there is a limit on things? When should northern republicans stop feeling shame for Kingsmill or Enniskillen? - I do by the way, neither should have happened
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 09:45:06 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.

I've waded through approx 10 pages and can't find it. What is it? And Bomber would you stop calling us freestaters.

genuine question. Whats wrong with the term free staters? Ive always used it and never meant it as a bad or derogatory term.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 09:51:37 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on January 12, 2018, 06:31:20 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 11, 2018, 06:02:22 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2018, 05:34:28 PM
Dunmanway killings were done by the anti treaty IRA for a start.
Secondly they believed they had evidence that many of those killed had been active in anti Volunteer activities and had been informing British soldiers and Auxiliaries of volunteer activities etc.
I am not aware of either Fianna Fáil , founded 1926/7 or Fine Gael, founded 1934 killing civilians deliberately or accidently.

The RIC were armed combatants in a War,
The Gardai were unarmed and we're mown down by Provos who if they were true Republicans would not have been militarily active in the 26 Cos.

You're not aware of FG and FF having gunmen and their dynasties who were leading figures in the IRA being elected members of their party.

I hope you keep engaging with me. Anti-treaty IRA (Fianna Fail) and Pro-treay IRA (Fine Gael) have plenty of blood on their hands, there was no truth and reconciliation for the Irish Civil War which cost hundreds of civilian lives in your state, mindless bloodshed with the combatants holding the highest offices of power in the land - but these killers were ok - it's just the ones up North where your contention lie with?

For once why can't you show us you are genuine and face down your own state's shameless bloody past?

I think that's the part that the likes of Rossfan can't understand. He doesn't understand the loyalty that the majority of Catholics in the North have towards the members of SF. Alot of them men literally laid down their lives trying to secure an equality that we now have. Consider someone like Gerry Kelly or even McGuinness. Both live or lived among the people. The people of the North respect them for two reasons:
1. When there was dirty work to be done and defending to be done they led the line.
2. Even now when there's less dirty work to be done, Gerry Kelly is being driven on top of a landrover as ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE.

Then we have people saying that Bomber is a SF bot. He's not. He's just calling out the hypocrites on their blind eye policy. If Collins and De Valera, had fought with the brit establishment to give up the West instead of the North, I reckon we would have had a completely different outcome, those in the West would be happy to lie down and have everything they stood for denounced. So forgive me or Bomber or anyone else if we don't jump on the ''Bash Barry'' bus. For all you non believers about McElduff, drive to Carrickmore for a Championship game and you will find him there with his luminous green Carmen top on among his people, and the people don't forget that ( as opposed to as was suggested earlier that the people of West Tyrone don't know any better.)

I suggest that you just let it go Bomber, these Free Staters just don't get it.

thats reason enuff to bash Barry for me
He is not a bot.  He is an ideologue. 
So there is no point in debating anything because there is no engagement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 12, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Time to bail out of this ridiculous thread. As a SF voter (up until now at least) I have to say I am disgusted with the behaviour on here of bomber and others. His generalised attacks on everyone south of the border is insulting. His whataboutery is pathetic. I'm out if here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 10:13:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 12, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Time to bail out of this ridiculous thread. As a SF voter (up until now at least) I have to say I am disgusted with the behaviour on here of bomber and others. His generalised attacks on everyone south of the border is insulting. His whataboutery is pathetic. I'm out if here.

Whataboutery is important in terms of balance, when those who are continually lining up to have potshots have been shown to feign ignorance when the establishment parties of their own state are up to their necks in it.

I can't help you if you don't want to see the bigger picture.

On here, the FG and FF threads are left with tumbleweed rolling through them when the last scandal of their murky past arises. Yet the usual Free Staters are queuing up when a bit of controversy arises on SF. I'll ask it again, why is that? I'd say I've asked it a good 20 times now and still no answer.

The list of shame of FG and FF is deep, it's murky and it's fit for outrage but the only interest from free staters seems to be what happens across the border.

The fact that you guys seem to get so offended at me pointing out that you have massive skeletons in your closet that you should address before pontificating about the northern conflict seems to offend for a very bizarre reason. The Free Staters in this thread have behaved like ostriches, I am very fair minded when it comes to these things. I will criticise the IRA and republicans over certain acts and atrocities and indeed how they handled certain situations but I will also judge them on the merits that they were abandoned on all sides in a sectarian statelet and were left with little option but to arm themselves and fight back and we know from every conflict that has happened the world over, bad things are an inevitability.

I think it is about time, the Irish Free State apologised to Norhtern nationalists for close 100 years of abandonment, smear and misrepresentation but you guys, to any sane person's disbelief, seem to think your state did no wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 10:51:24 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 10:13:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 12, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Time to bail out of this ridiculous thread. As a SF voter (up until now at least) I have to say I am disgusted with the behaviour on here of bomber and others. His generalised attacks on everyone south of the border is insulting. His whataboutery is pathetic. I'm out if here.

Whataboutery is important in terms of balance, when those who are continually lining up to have potshots have been shown to feign ignorance when the establishment parties of their own state are up to their necks in it.

I can't help you if you don't want to see the bigger picture.

On here, the FG and FF threads are left with tumbleweed rolling through them when the last scandal of their murky past arises. Yet the usual Free Staters are queuing up when a bit of controversy arises on SF. I'll ask it again, why is that? I'd say I've asked it a good 20 times now and still no answer.

The list of shame of FG and FF is deep, it's murky and it's fit for outrage but the only interest from free staters seems to be what happens across the border.

The fact that you guys seem to get so offended at me pointing out that you have massive skeletons in your closet that you should address before pontificating about the northern conflict seems to offend for a very bizarre reason. The Free Staters in this thread have behaved like ostriches, I am very fair minded when it comes to these things. I will criticise the IRA and republicans over certain acts and atrocities and indeed how they handled certain situations but I will also judge them on the merits that they were abandoned on all sides in a sectarian statelet and were left with little option but to arm themselves and fight back and we know from every conflict that has happened the world over, bad things are an inevitability.

I think it is about time, the Irish Free State apologised to Norhtern nationalists for close 100 years of abandonment, smear and misrepresentation but you guys, to any sane person's disbelief, seem to think your state did no wrong.
There is no balance between SF''s situation and FF's.
SF has not dealt coherently with the past. It tried to PR its way out of the bread crisis this week and lost.
The families of the victims won. How will SF move forward ?  How can it sanitise the past?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 11:21:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 10:51:24 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 10:13:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 12, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Time to bail out of this ridiculous thread. As a SF voter (up until now at least) I have to say I am disgusted with the behaviour on here of bomber and others. His generalised attacks on everyone south of the border is insulting. His whataboutery is pathetic. I'm out if here.

Whataboutery is important in terms of balance, when those who are continually lining up to have potshots have been shown to feign ignorance when the establishment parties of their own state are up to their necks in it.

I can't help you if you don't want to see the bigger picture.

On here, the FG and FF threads are left with tumbleweed rolling through them when the last scandal of their murky past arises. Yet the usual Free Staters are queuing up when a bit of controversy arises on SF. I'll ask it again, why is that? I'd say I've asked it a good 20 times now and still no answer.

The list of shame of FG and FF is deep, it's murky and it's fit for outrage but the only interest from free staters seems to be what happens across the border.

The fact that you guys seem to get so offended at me pointing out that you have massive skeletons in your closet that you should address before pontificating about the northern conflict seems to offend for a very bizarre reason. The Free Staters in this thread have behaved like ostriches, I am very fair minded when it comes to these things. I will criticise the IRA and republicans over certain acts and atrocities and indeed how they handled certain situations but I will also judge them on the merits that they were abandoned on all sides in a sectarian statelet and were left with little option but to arm themselves and fight back and we know from every conflict that has happened the world over, bad things are an inevitability.

I think it is about time, the Irish Free State apologised to Norhtern nationalists for close 100 years of abandonment, smear and misrepresentation but you guys, to any sane person's disbelief, seem to think your state did no wrong.
There is no balance between SF''s situation and FF's.
SF has not dealt coherently with the past. It tried to PR its way out of the bread crisis this week and lost.
The families of the victims won. How will SF move forward ?  How can it sanitise the past?

I must have missed the truth and reconciliation after the Irish Civil War. When did that take place?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?

I think his issues about being called a free stater is the connotations it brings up about the way his state callously abandoned their northern brethren in their hour of need and left them to fend for themselves. The rest is history as they say and the free staters have now decided that history only starts from the 1970s so they can moralise and pontificate to northern nationalists about armed republicanism and relieve themselves somewhat of that shame.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 12, 2018, 12:16:17 PM
From Wiki:

Free Stater or pro-Treatyite is a term often used by opponents to describe those in Ireland who supported the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921 that led to the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922.  The pro-Treaty side included members of the old IRA who had fought the British during the recent Irish War of Independence. Led by Michael Collins and Richard Mulcahy, it soon became the nucleus of the new (regular) Irish National Army that overcame their anti-Treaty IRA opponents during the often bitter Irish Civil War of 1922–23.

The term is sometimes heard anachronistically in Northern Ireland for anyone from the South of the country, occasionally as a pejorative term.

The term is also used across Ireland to describe people from the Republic of Ireland who do not support a united Ireland.

Followers of Irish republican legitimatism use the term to describe those who defected from the Republican movement and accept the institutions of the 26-county state, as opposed to giving allegiance to the Irish Republic outlined in the 1916 Proclamation of the Irish Republic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 12, 2018, 12:21:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4v8RWRaWYA

I joined the Flying Column in 19 and 16
In Cork with Sean Moylan in Tipperary with Dan Breen
Arrested by Free Staters and sentenced for to die
Farewell to Tipperary said the Galtee Mountain boy.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on January 12, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?

I think his issues about being called a free stater is the connotations it brings up about the way his state callously abandoned their northern brethren in their hour of need and left them to fend for themselves. The rest is history as they say and the free staters have now decided that history only starts from the 1970s so they can moralise and pontificate to northern nationalists about armed republicanism and relieve themselves somewhat of that shame.

The free state would have got obliterated in a military battle after treaty. What emerged was a priest ridden country that was anathema to Unionists, and in opinion poll after opinion poll a large percentage of Catholics preferred their lot in UK to their gombeen brethren down south. Until now. Because the dirty secret is the only means the "free state" can bring about a UI is by becoming a more forward thinking country with better economic prospects than the failed state the Unionists created. However, I get the impression you are not convinced.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 01:01:02 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 12, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?

I think his issues about being called a free stater is the connotations it brings up about the way his state callously abandoned their northern brethren in their hour of need and left them to fend for themselves. The rest is history as they say and the free staters have now decided that history only starts from the 1970s so they can moralise and pontificate to northern nationalists about armed republicanism and relieve themselves somewhat of that shame.

The free state would have got obliterated in a military battle after treaty. What emerged was a priest ridden country that was anathema to Unionists, and in opinion poll after opinion poll a large percentage of Catholics preferred their lot in UK to their gombeen brethren down south. Until now. Because the dirty secret is the only means the "free state" can bring about a UI is by becoming a more forward thinking country with better economic prospects than the failed state the Unionists created. However, I get the impression you are not convinced.

I think both the Free State and Occupied Ulster have been abhorrent failures.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 12, 2018, 12:16:17 PM
From Wiki:

Free Stater or pro-Treatyite is a term often used by opponents to describe those in Ireland who supported the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921 that led to the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922.  The pro-Treaty side included members of the old IRA who had fought the British during the recent Irish War of Independence. Led by Michael Collins and Richard Mulcahy, it soon became the nucleus of the new (regular) Irish National Army that overcame their anti-Treaty IRA opponents during the often bitter Irish Civil War of 1922–23.

The term is sometimes heard anachronistically in Northern Ireland for anyone from the South of the country, occasionally as a pejorative term.

The term is also used across Ireland to describe people from the Republic of Ireland who do not support a united Ireland.

Followers of Irish republican legitimatism use the term to describe those who defected from the Republican movement and accept the institutions of the 26-county state, as opposed to giving allegiance to the Irish Republic outlined in the 1916 Proclamation of the Irish Republic.

"The term is also used across Ireland to describe people from the Republic of Ireland who do not support a united Ireland."

It isn't.  Free Stater is used by people in the north who object to beING excluded from the Republic of Ireland . Its use indicates unfinished business.

Free State is used extensively online in the service of whataboutery. 

Après Match should look into it.

https://youtu.be/fjEkjeVzL34
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

As soon as Mike Denver has the song ready on Midwest

https://youtu.be/ttMt9SHRwsM
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on January 12, 2018, 01:07:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 10:51:24 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 10:13:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 12, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Time to bail out of this ridiculous thread. As a SF voter (up until now at least) I have to say I am disgusted with the behaviour on here of bomber and others. His generalised attacks on everyone south of the border is insulting. His whataboutery is pathetic. I'm out if here.

Whataboutery is important in terms of balance, when those who are continually lining up to have potshots have been shown to feign ignorance when the establishment parties of their own state are up to their necks in it.

I can't help you if you don't want to see the bigger picture.

On here, the FG and FF threads are left with tumbleweed rolling through them when the last scandal of their murky past arises. Yet the usual Free Staters are queuing up when a bit of controversy arises on SF. I'll ask it again, why is that? I'd say I've asked it a good 20 times now and still no answer.

The list of shame of FG and FF is deep, it's murky and it's fit for outrage but the only interest from free staters seems to be what happens across the border.

The fact that you guys seem to get so offended at me pointing out that you have massive skeletons in your closet that you should address before pontificating about the northern conflict seems to offend for a very bizarre reason. The Free Staters in this thread have behaved like ostriches, I am very fair minded when it comes to these things. I will criticise the IRA and republicans over certain acts and atrocities and indeed how they handled certain situations but I will also judge them on the merits that they were abandoned on all sides in a sectarian statelet and were left with little option but to arm themselves and fight back and we know from every conflict that has happened the world over, bad things are an inevitability.

I think it is about time, the Irish Free State apologised to Norhtern nationalists for close 100 years of abandonment, smear and misrepresentation but you guys, to any sane person's disbelief, seem to think your state did no wrong.
There is no balance between SF''s situation and FF's.
SF has not dealt coherently with the past. It tried to PR its way out of the bread crisis this week and lost.
The families of the victims won. How will SF move forward ?  How can it sanitise the past?

FF and FG haven't exactly dealt with the past either.
There seems to be an embarrassment about the Easter rising in the ruling classes in Dublin whereas every other country celebrates theirs with gusto
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 01:49:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 12, 2018, 12:16:17 PM
From Wiki:

Free Stater or pro-Treatyite is a term often used by opponents to describe those in Ireland who supported the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921 that led to the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922.  The pro-Treaty side included members of the old IRA who had fought the British during the recent Irish War of Independence. Led by Michael Collins and Richard Mulcahy, it soon became the nucleus of the new (regular) Irish National Army that overcame their anti-Treaty IRA opponents during the often bitter Irish Civil War of 1922–23.

The term is sometimes heard anachronistically in Northern Ireland for anyone from the South of the country, occasionally as a pejorative term.

The term is also used across Ireland to describe people from the Republic of Ireland who do not support a united Ireland.

Followers of Irish republican legitimatism use the term to describe those who defected from the Republican movement and accept the institutions of the 26-county state, as opposed to giving allegiance to the Irish Republic outlined in the 1916 Proclamation of the Irish Republic.

"The term is also used across Ireland to describe people from the Republic of Ireland who do not support a united Ireland."

It isn't.  Free Stater is used by people in the north who object to beING excluded from the Republic of Ireland . Its use indicates unfinished business.

Free State is used extensively online in the service of whataboutery. 

Après Match should look into it.

https://youtu.be/fjEkjeVzL34

Ive only ever used it to describe people from the south in neither a negative nor a positive manner. It was always just a term for you guys for me
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 01:53:35 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 01:01:02 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 12, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?

I think his issues about being called a free stater is the connotations it brings up about the way his state callously abandoned their northern brethren in their hour of need and left them to fend for themselves. The rest is history as they say and the free staters have now decided that history only starts from the 1970s so they can moralise and pontificate to northern nationalists about armed republicanism and relieve themselves somewhat of that shame.

The free state would have got obliterated in a military battle after treaty. What emerged was a priest ridden country that was anathema to Unionists, and in opinion poll after opinion poll a large percentage of Catholics preferred their lot in UK to their gombeen brethren down south. Until now. Because the dirty secret is the only means the "free state" can bring about a UI is by becoming a more forward thinking country with better economic prospects than the failed state the Unionists created. However, I get the impression you are not convinced.

I think both the Free State and Occupied Ulster have been abhorrent failures.

Well you may think so. Country has it problems but it's a country unlike six counties where marriage equality exists. It's a country that's frequently amongst the top in human development index, world happiness index, best place to live, best place to do business. We've maintained a strong native culture in sports, language, literature, music. Tourism industry is increasing all the time, often due to smart marketing like The Wild Atlantic Way. The top global brands are content to make Ireland their Euro HQ - obviously there's a big tax incentive, but they are big employers. Would be foolish to say we don't have big problems in health and homeless. We of course always had the self-loathing Paddy that loves to proclaim the country an abject failure. They spend a lot of their time on politics.ie and in the comments on journal.ie. And we have the types that say we couldn't afford to run the North. We could, and I hope that day will come soon.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:04:23 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 01:53:35 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 01:01:02 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 12, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?

I think his issues about being called a free stater is the connotations it brings up about the way his state callously abandoned their northern brethren in their hour of need and left them to fend for themselves. The rest is history as they say and the free staters have now decided that history only starts from the 1970s so they can moralise and pontificate to northern nationalists about armed republicanism and relieve themselves somewhat of that shame.

The free state would have got obliterated in a military battle after treaty. What emerged was a priest ridden country that was anathema to Unionists, and in opinion poll after opinion poll a large percentage of Catholics preferred their lot in UK to their gombeen brethren down south. Until now. Because the dirty secret is the only means the "free state" can bring about a UI is by becoming a more forward thinking country with better economic prospects than the failed state the Unionists created. However, I get the impression you are not convinced.

I think both the Free State and Occupied Ulster have been abhorrent failures.

Well you may think so. Country has it problems but it's a country unlike six counties where marriage equality exists. It's a country that's frequently amongst the top in human development index, world happiness index, best place to live, best place to do business. We've maintained a strong native culture in sports, language, literature, music. Tourism industry is increasing all the time, often due to smart marketing like The Wild Atlantic Way. The top global brands are content to make Ireland their Euro HQ - obviously there's a big tax incentive, but they are big employers. Would be foolish to say we don't have big problems in health and homeless. We of course always had the self-loathing Paddy that loves to proclaim the country an abject failure. They spend a lot of their time on politics.ie and in the comments on journal.ie. And we have the types that say we couldn't afford to run the North. We could, and I hope that day will come soon.

It's a state where political corruption has been the norm since day 1, where politicians have been the puppets for big developers and wealthy families. It's a state which recently had to ship off hundreds of thousands of their youths after the Government felt citizens should take on the burden of the debts that bondholders reneged on. It's a state which currently has a widening wealth inequality with huge social problems in housing and health.

And that's ignoring the Free State's disgraceful record with the North of Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:04:23 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 01:53:35 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 01:01:02 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 12, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?

I think his issues about being called a free stater is the connotations it brings up about the way his state callously abandoned their northern brethren in their hour of need and left them to fend for themselves. The rest is history as they say and the free staters have now decided that history only starts from the 1970s so they can moralise and pontificate to northern nationalists about armed republicanism and relieve themselves somewhat of that shame.

The free state would have got obliterated in a military battle after treaty. What emerged was a priest ridden country that was anathema to Unionists, and in opinion poll after opinion poll a large percentage of Catholics preferred their lot in UK to their gombeen brethren down south. Until now. Because the dirty secret is the only means the "free state" can bring about a UI is by becoming a more forward thinking country with better economic prospects than the failed state the Unionists created. However, I get the impression you are not convinced.

I think both the Free State and Occupied Ulster have been abhorrent failures.

Well you may think so. Country has it problems but it's a country unlike six counties where marriage equality exists. It's a country that's frequently amongst the top in human development index, world happiness index, best place to live, best place to do business. We've maintained a strong native culture in sports, language, literature, music. Tourism industry is increasing all the time, often due to smart marketing like The Wild Atlantic Way. The top global brands are content to make Ireland their Euro HQ - obviously there's a big tax incentive, but they are big employers. Would be foolish to say we don't have big problems in health and homeless. We of course always had the self-loathing Paddy that loves to proclaim the country an abject failure. They spend a lot of their time on politics.ie and in the comments on journal.ie. And we have the types that say we couldn't afford to run the North. We could, and I hope that day will come soon.

It's a state where political corruption has been the norm since day 1, where politicians have been the puppets for big developers and wealthy families. It's a state which recently had to ship off hundreds of thousands of their youths after the Government felt citizens should take on the burden of the debts that bondholders reneged on. It's a state which currently has a widening wealth inequality with huge social problems in housing and health.

And that's ignoring the Free State's disgraceful record with the North of Ireland.

It's an island that when part of the most powerful empire in the world 2 million of it's people starved, and millions more emigrated. The state that went it alone is now a country that can stand on it's own two feet. In contrast, the majority of Scots, Unionists and Welsh never had the balls to do this and dependent on Mother England to feed them. While there's corruption in Ireland and many did well out of a brown envelope, there is in every country and we are still considered one of the least corrupt countries in the world by global standards. As regards bailing out the banks, both the UK and US governments bailed out their banks too. While distasteful, they all believed it would be better for their economies in the long run with a healthy banking system. They were proved right with BOI and AIB which look to return back to the taxpayer what was invested in saving them. Anglo should have been let fail. Ultimately Ireland recovered a lot quicker than anyone expected.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:32:20 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:04:23 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 01:53:35 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 01:01:02 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 12, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?

I think his issues about being called a free stater is the connotations it brings up about the way his state callously abandoned their northern brethren in their hour of need and left them to fend for themselves. The rest is history as they say and the free staters have now decided that history only starts from the 1970s so they can moralise and pontificate to northern nationalists about armed republicanism and relieve themselves somewhat of that shame.

The free state would have got obliterated in a military battle after treaty. What emerged was a priest ridden country that was anathema to Unionists, and in opinion poll after opinion poll a large percentage of Catholics preferred their lot in UK to their gombeen brethren down south. Until now. Because the dirty secret is the only means the "free state" can bring about a UI is by becoming a more forward thinking country with better economic prospects than the failed state the Unionists created. However, I get the impression you are not convinced.

I think both the Free State and Occupied Ulster have been abhorrent failures.

Well you may think so. Country has it problems but it's a country unlike six counties where marriage equality exists. It's a country that's frequently amongst the top in human development index, world happiness index, best place to live, best place to do business. We've maintained a strong native culture in sports, language, literature, music. Tourism industry is increasing all the time, often due to smart marketing like The Wild Atlantic Way. The top global brands are content to make Ireland their Euro HQ - obviously there's a big tax incentive, but they are big employers. Would be foolish to say we don't have big problems in health and homeless. We of course always had the self-loathing Paddy that loves to proclaim the country an abject failure. They spend a lot of their time on politics.ie and in the comments on journal.ie. And we have the types that say we couldn't afford to run the North. We could, and I hope that day will come soon.

It's a state where political corruption has been the norm since day 1, where politicians have been the puppets for big developers and wealthy families. It's a state which recently had to ship off hundreds of thousands of their youths after the Government felt citizens should take on the burden of the debts that bondholders reneged on. It's a state which currently has a widening wealth inequality with huge social problems in housing and health.

And that's ignoring the Free State's disgraceful record with the North of Ireland.

It's an island that when part of the most powerful empire in the world 2 million of it's people starved, and millions more emigrated. The state that went it alone is now a country that can stand on it's own two feet. In contrast, the majority of Scots, Unionists and Welsh never had the balls to do this and dependent on Mother England to feed them. While there's corruption in Ireland and many did well out of a brown envelope, there is in every country and we are still considered one of the least corrupt countries in the world by global standards. As regards bailing out the banks, both the UK and US governments bailed out their banks too. While distasteful, they all believed it would be better for their economies in the long run with a healthy banking system. They were proved right with BOI and AIB which look to return back to the taxpayer what was invested in saving them. Anglo should have been let fail. Ultimately Ireland recovered a lot quicker than anyone expected.

Are you on the windup?

The Irish banks have not tried to pay back those who saved them, they've recently been embroiled in a tracker mortgage scandal that saw loads of people lose their homes and furthered financial hardship?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: rosnarun on January 12, 2018, 02:32:50 PM
ive always said that bailing out the banks was very much misunderstood by the nation who I don't think understood the effect of not bailing out the regular banks.
most savings would have been obliterated and loans next to impossible to get business would have fallen over night .
they were the real beneficiaries of the bail out not the owners (shareholder) who investment were decimated or the senior management who were all gotten rid of except boucher who did a heroic job and made sure BOI repaid the Government with intrest
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:38:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lacl of amy political talent; will have seen to that@

Both states are failures, I think it's a bit arrogant of the Free State to assume they would be absorbing us, if it happens it should be a new state with new values - I have little interest in their corruption and duplicity
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:39:55 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on January 12, 2018, 02:32:50 PM
ive always said that bailing out the banks was very much misunderstood by the nation who I don't think understood the effect of not bailing out the regular banks.
most savings would have been obliterated and loans next to impossible to get business would have fallen over night .
they were the real beneficiaries of the bail out not the owners (shareholder) who investment were decimated or the senior management who were all gotten rid of except boucher who did a heroic job and made sure BOI repaid the Government with intrest

Iceland let their banks fail and went after the bankers who caused the situation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:42:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:32:20 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:04:23 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 01:53:35 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 01:01:02 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 12, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?

I think his issues about being called a free stater is the connotations it brings up about the way his state callously abandoned their northern brethren in their hour of need and left them to fend for themselves. The rest is history as they say and the free staters have now decided that history only starts from the 1970s so they can moralise and pontificate to northern nationalists about armed republicanism and relieve themselves somewhat of that shame.

The free state would have got obliterated in a military battle after treaty. What emerged was a priest ridden country that was anathema to Unionists, and in opinion poll after opinion poll a large percentage of Catholics preferred their lot in UK to their gombeen brethren down south. Until now. Because the dirty secret is the only means the "free state" can bring about a UI is by becoming a more forward thinking country with better economic prospects than the failed state the Unionists created. However, I get the impression you are not convinced.

I think both the Free State and Occupied Ulster have been abhorrent failures.

Well you may think so. Country has it problems but it's a country unlike six counties where marriage equality exists. It's a country that's frequently amongst the top in human development index, world happiness index, best place to live, best place to do business. We've maintained a strong native culture in sports, language, literature, music. Tourism industry is increasing all the time, often due to smart marketing like The Wild Atlantic Way. The top global brands are content to make Ireland their Euro HQ - obviously there's a big tax incentive, but they are big employers. Would be foolish to say we don't have big problems in health and homeless. We of course always had the self-loathing Paddy that loves to proclaim the country an abject failure. They spend a lot of their time on politics.ie and in the comments on journal.ie. And we have the types that say we couldn't afford to run the North. We could, and I hope that day will come soon.

It's a state where political corruption has been the norm since day 1, where politicians have been the puppets for big developers and wealthy families. It's a state which recently had to ship off hundreds of thousands of their youths after the Government felt citizens should take on the burden of the debts that bondholders reneged on. It's a state which currently has a widening wealth inequality with huge social problems in housing and health.

And that's ignoring the Free State's disgraceful record with the North of Ireland.

It's an island that when part of the most powerful empire in the world 2 million of it's people starved, and millions more emigrated. The state that went it alone is now a country that can stand on it's own two feet. In contrast, the majority of Scots, Unionists and Welsh never had the balls to do this and dependent on Mother England to feed them. While there's corruption in Ireland and many did well out of a brown envelope, there is in every country and we are still considered one of the least corrupt countries in the world by global standards. As regards bailing out the banks, both the UK and US governments bailed out their banks too. While distasteful, they all believed it would be better for their economies in the long run with a healthy banking system. They were proved right with BOI and AIB which look to return back to the taxpayer what was invested in saving them. Anglo should have been let fail. Ultimately Ireland recovered a lot quicker than anyone expected.

Are you on the windup?

The Irish banks have not tried to pay back those who saved them, they've recently been embroiled in a tracker mortgage scandal that saw loads of people lose their homes and furthered financial hardship?

No I'm not. AIB had already paid back 6.8 billion to the state, before state raised an additional 3.4 billion from selling shares last year. That's 10.2 of the 20 billion for AIB already paid back. And the state still owns most of the bank.

I think Bank of Ireland has already paid out most if not all of the funds it received.

You can always google this if you don't believe me.

I'm not in defending the banks or their behavior. However, had we let the banks fail, likely a lot more innocent people would have got hurt and lost what savings they had. People say sure weren't we insured by govt up to a 100 grand. And where do they think that money would have come from?


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:44:55 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:42:56 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:32:20 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:04:23 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 01:53:35 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 01:01:02 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 12, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
The Irish Free State was abolished 80 years ago.
Do keep up😆😆😆
Well said above Itchy.

Meanwhile when does Marylou get officially crowned?

and that's your issue with being called a free stater?
when can Northern republicans stop feeling shame? What is the time limit? Or does shame only apply to Northern republicans?

I think his issues about being called a free stater is the connotations it brings up about the way his state callously abandoned their northern brethren in their hour of need and left them to fend for themselves. The rest is history as they say and the free staters have now decided that history only starts from the 1970s so they can moralise and pontificate to northern nationalists about armed republicanism and relieve themselves somewhat of that shame.

The free state would have got obliterated in a military battle after treaty. What emerged was a priest ridden country that was anathema to Unionists, and in opinion poll after opinion poll a large percentage of Catholics preferred their lot in UK to their gombeen brethren down south. Until now. Because the dirty secret is the only means the "free state" can bring about a UI is by becoming a more forward thinking country with better economic prospects than the failed state the Unionists created. However, I get the impression you are not convinced.

I think both the Free State and Occupied Ulster have been abhorrent failures.

Well you may think so. Country has it problems but it's a country unlike six counties where marriage equality exists. It's a country that's frequently amongst the top in human development index, world happiness index, best place to live, best place to do business. We've maintained a strong native culture in sports, language, literature, music. Tourism industry is increasing all the time, often due to smart marketing like The Wild Atlantic Way. The top global brands are content to make Ireland their Euro HQ - obviously there's a big tax incentive, but they are big employers. Would be foolish to say we don't have big problems in health and homeless. We of course always had the self-loathing Paddy that loves to proclaim the country an abject failure. They spend a lot of their time on politics.ie and in the comments on journal.ie. And we have the types that say we couldn't afford to run the North. We could, and I hope that day will come soon.

It's a state where political corruption has been the norm since day 1, where politicians have been the puppets for big developers and wealthy families. It's a state which recently had to ship off hundreds of thousands of their youths after the Government felt citizens should take on the burden of the debts that bondholders reneged on. It's a state which currently has a widening wealth inequality with huge social problems in housing and health.

And that's ignoring the Free State's disgraceful record with the North of Ireland.

It's an island that when part of the most powerful empire in the world 2 million of it's people starved, and millions more emigrated. The state that went it alone is now a country that can stand on it's own two feet. In contrast, the majority of Scots, Unionists and Welsh never had the balls to do this and dependent on Mother England to feed them. While there's corruption in Ireland and many did well out of a brown envelope, there is in every country and we are still considered one of the least corrupt countries in the world by global standards. As regards bailing out the banks, both the UK and US governments bailed out their banks too. While distasteful, they all believed it would be better for their economies in the long run with a healthy banking system. They were proved right with BOI and AIB which look to return back to the taxpayer what was invested in saving them. Anglo should have been let fail. Ultimately Ireland recovered a lot quicker than anyone expected.

Are you on the windup?

The Irish banks have not tried to pay back those who saved them, they've recently been embroiled in a tracker mortgage scandal that saw loads of people lose their homes and furthered financial hardship?

No I'm not. AIB had already paid back 6.8 billion to the state, before state raised an additional 3.4 billion from selling shares last year. That's 10.2 of the 20 billion for AIB already paid back. And the state still owns most of the bank.

I think Bank of Ireland has already paid out most if not all of the funds it received.

You can always google this if you don't believe me.

I'm not in defending the banks or their behavior. However, had we let the banks fail, likely a lot more innocent people would have got hurt and lost what savings they had. People say sure weren't we insured by govt up to a 100 grand. And where do they think that money would have come from?

And how have the banks behaved with the public?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:55:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:44:55 PM

And how have the banks behaved with the public?

Like bankers the world over: rip them off, maximise profits. It's not an Irish thing. The financial crisis itself began with the greed of American banks. Anyway straying off topic here...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 03:04:18 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:38:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lacl of amy political talent; will have seen to that@

Both states are failures, I think it's a bit arrogant of the Free State to assume they would be absorbing us, if it happens it should be a new state with new values - I have little interest in their corruption and duplicity
Which state would you approve of Bomber? I have lived in a few countries and the veneration of crap was at home in all of them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 03:07:20 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:55:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:44:55 PM

And how have the banks behaved with the public?

Like bankers the world over: rip them off, maximise profits. It's not an Irish thing. The financial crisis itself began with the greed of American banks. Anyway straying off topic here...

And who has facilitated them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 03:07:20 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:55:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:44:55 PM

And how have the banks behaved with the public?

Like bankers the world over: rip them off, maximise profits. It's not an Irish thing. The financial crisis itself began with the greed of American banks. Anyway straying off topic here...

And who has facilitated them?

Well the gov and regulator are making them pay back their customers that they screwed on the tracker mortgages. In the US it was lack of regulation on the gov part that allowed banks to profit from selling mortgage debt. Obama for example brought in a lot of regulations to protect the consumer including a fiduciary rule that financial companies are supposed to act in the best interests of their customers. Trump overturned that rule. There's much more regulation in Ireland now compared to the Bertie years when a dog could walk into a bank and secure a mortgage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 03:30:09 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 03:07:20 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on January 12, 2018, 02:55:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 02:44:55 PM

And how have the banks behaved with the public?

Like bankers the world over: rip them off, maximise profits. It's not an Irish thing. The financial crisis itself began with the greed of American banks. Anyway straying off topic here...

In Iceland they lets the banks fail and pursued the bankers.

In Ireland, they saved the banks and let the bankers off.

And who has facilitated them?

Well the gov and regulator are making them pay back their customers that they screwed on the tracker mortgages. In the US it was lack of regulation on the gov part that allowed banks to profit from selling mortgage debt. Obama for example brought in a lot of regulations to protect the consumer including a fiduciary rule that financial companies are supposed to act in the best interests of their customers. Trump overturned that rule. There's much more regulation in Ireland now compared to the Bertie years when a dog could walk into a bank and secure a mortgage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 03:43:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

and what abut shame? How long should that last? Im genuinely interested to know
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

To be fair Franco demolished a few posters as well.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 12, 2018, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

This thread is better read as a rosetta stone for that poster's psyche than it is as a political discussion. It's kind of incredible to watch.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 04:05:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

You would wish so, wouldn't you Princess?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 12, 2018, 04:35:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

To be fair Franco demolished a few posters as well.....

At least bomber seems able to muster some sort of response to his apparent 'demolishing'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2018, 04:46:12 PM
Normally banjaxed banks are given liquidity by a central bank and kept ticking over or if they in Anglo mode wound down with the bondholders  taking one for the team. The Eurozone does not have a Central bank and no bondholders could be touched. This has nothing to do with the ROI.  It was imposed. If SF had been in charge they would have bent over.

Neoliberalism is dying but SF are neoliberal in NI. TsK tsk
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 12, 2018, 05:00:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 11:10:05 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.

I've waded through approx 10 pages and can't find it. What is it? And Bomber would you stop calling us freestaters.

Why? Does it shame you?
No you clown it is insulting as is your behaviour on this thread, are you Barry?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

To be fair Franco demolished a few posters as well.....
Franco seems to have now reached legendary status by cutting and pasting some comments from a hectoring sanctimonious Bomber thread onto this thread as a deflection from Barry's idiocy.
I think Apples has just summed things  up very well..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 05:07:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 12, 2018, 05:00:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 11:10:05 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.

I've waded through approx 10 pages and can't find it. What is it? And Bomber would you stop calling us freestaters.

Why? Does it shame you?
No you clown it is insulting as is your behaviour on this thread, are you Barry?

I find the abandonment of northern nationalists by free staters insulting, a bit like I find your behaviour.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 12, 2018, 05:08:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

To be fair Franco demolished a few posters as well.....
Franco seems to have now reached legendary status by cutting and pasting some comments from a hectoring sanctimonious Bomber thread onto this thread as a deflection from Barry's idiocy.
I think Apples has just summed things  up very well..

And yet still no response...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

To be fair Franco demolished a few posters as well.....
Franco seems to have now reached legendary status by cutting and pasting some comments from a hectoring sanctimonious Bomber thread onto this thread as a deflection from Barry's idiocy.
I think Apples has just summed things  up very well..

Franco just made it painfully obvious how hypocritical some posters are and that their posts should be taken with a pinch of salt on certain subjects. Most people would know this, but good to have it spelled out so clearly in one post.  😉
Legendary? Naw but effective.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 12, 2018, 05:28:30 PM
It must be difficult remembering all the log-ins to those alt accounts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 05:34:57 PM
Naw I keep a spreadsheet. Surely as you own the internet you would know who had multiple accounts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 05:34:57 PM
Naw I keep a spreadsheet. Surely as you own the internet you would know who had multiple accounts.

Incorrect. He invented the internet.

Quote from: Syferus on October 06, 2017, 01:43:57 PM

I graduated from college with a BSc. in Computer Science, work as a software dev and have used computers since I could walk and have been involved with forums nearly as long (some being very much comparable to this in size, so don't think I don't understand the logistics) - there is no 'alluding' to my experience with technology - it's there in black and white.



Will never ever get bored of this quote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 12, 2018, 06:45:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 05:34:57 PM
Naw I keep a spreadsheet. Surely as you own the internet you would know who had multiple accounts.

Incorrect. He invented the internet.

Quote from: Syferus on October 06, 2017, 01:43:57 PM

I graduated from college with a BSc. in Computer Science, work as a software dev and have used computers since I could walk and have been involved with forums nearly as long (some being very much comparable to this in size, so don't think I don't understand the logistics) - there is no 'alluding' to my experience with technology - it's there in black and white.



Will never ever get bored of this quote.

That made me Lol.... so we can assume you have been a massive force in forums since you were about 6?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 06:51:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 05:34:57 PM
Naw I keep a spreadsheet. Surely as you own the internet you would know who had multiple accounts.

Incorrect. He invented the internet.

Quote from: Syferus on October 06, 2017, 01:43:57 PM

I graduated from college with a BSc. in Computer Science, work as a software dev and have used computers since I could walk and have been involved with forums nearly as long (some being very much comparable to this in size, so don't think I don't understand the logistics) - there is no 'alluding' to my experience with technology - it's there in black and white.



Will never ever get bored of this quote.

Did he type that with a serious face?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 12, 2018, 08:19:07 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 05:07:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 12, 2018, 05:00:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 11, 2018, 11:10:05 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
Funny how they haven't dismissed Frankos post though.  Probably because that's a bit more difficult.

I've waded through approx 10 pages and can't find it. What is it? And Bomber would you stop calling us freestaters.


Why? Does it shame you?
No you clown it is insulting as is your behaviour on this thread, are you Barry?

I find the abandonment of northern nationalists by free staters insulting, a bit like I find your behaviour.
Well I guess its a mutual thing then.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 08:25:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 06:51:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 05:34:57 PM
Naw I keep a spreadsheet. Surely as you own the internet you would know who had multiple accounts.

Incorrect. He invented the internet.

Quote from: Syferus on October 06, 2017, 01:43:57 PM

I graduated from college with a BSc. in Computer Science, work as a software dev and have used computers since I could walk and have been involved with forums nearly as long (some being very much comparable to this in size, so don't think I don't understand the logistics) - there is no 'alluding' to my experience with technology - it's there in black and white.



Will never ever get bored of this quote.

Did he type that with a serious face?

Oh..he sure did. I'll send you the link.. it's a riot. Telling a moderator on GAABoard what shit a job they are doing!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 08:25:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 06:51:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 05:34:57 PM
Naw I keep a spreadsheet. Surely as you own the internet you would know who had multiple accounts.

Incorrect. He invented the internet.

Quote from: Syferus on October 06, 2017, 01:43:57 PM

I graduated from college with a BSc. in Computer Science, work as a software dev and have used computers since I could walk and have been involved with forums nearly as long (some being very much comparable to this in size, so don't think I don't understand the logistics) - there is no 'alluding' to my experience with technology - it's there in black and white.



Will never ever get bored of this quote.

Did he type that with a serious face?

Oh..he sure did. I'll send you the link...it's a riot. Telling a moderator on GAABoard what shit a job they are doing!!

Ah lovely, he's like one of those very self-confident 8 year old girls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

To be fair Franco demolished a few posters as well.....
Franco seems to have now reached legendary status by cutting and pasting some comments from a hectoring sanctimonious Bomber thread onto this thread as a deflection from Barry's idiocy.
I think Apples has just summed things  up very well..

I'm still waiting for an answer from you. Guess it wont be forthcoming
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 10:02:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 08:25:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 06:51:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 05:34:57 PM
Naw I keep a spreadsheet. Surely as you own the internet you would know who had multiple accounts.

Incorrect. He invented the internet.

Quote from: Syferus on October 06, 2017, 01:43:57 PM

I graduated from college with a BSc. in Computer Science, work as a software dev and have used computers since I could walk and have been involved with forums nearly as long (some being very much comparable to this in size, so don't think I don't understand the logistics) - there is no 'alluding' to my experience with technology - it's there in black and white.



Will never ever get bored of this quote.

Did he type that with a serious face?

Oh..he sure did. I'll send you the link...it's a riot. Telling a moderator on GAABoard what shit a job they are doing!!

Ah lovely, he's like one of those very self-confident 8 year old girls.

More like this

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/01/07/21/3BEE444E00000578-4098090-image-m-11_1483823157711.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 12, 2018, 10:06:00 PM
Ah dear god, this board is deteriorating rapidly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 10:33:23 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 12, 2018, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 12, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Some men are making total clowns of themselves on heree! If they are that bad why any of you looking a united ireland! In some deluded reality do you think Sinn Fein be running things@ dont think so; their inability to govern up here and lack of any political talent; will have seen to that@
One poster in particular who seems to have waaaaaay to much time on his/her hands.
Nitrate has fairly demolished him/her.

To be fair Franco demolished a few posters as well.....
Franco seems to have now reached legendary status by cutting and pasting some comments from a hectoring sanctimonious Bomber thread onto this thread as a deflection from Barry's idiocy.
I think Apples has just summed things  up very well..

I'm still waiting for an answer from you. Guess it wont be forthcoming
Answer to what?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 12, 2018, 11:03:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 10:02:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 08:25:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 12, 2018, 06:51:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2018, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2018, 05:34:57 PM
Naw I keep a spreadsheet. Surely as you own the internet you would know who had multiple accounts.

Incorrect. He invented the internet.

Quote from: Syferus on October 06, 2017, 01:43:57 PM

I graduated from college with a BSc. in Computer Science, work as a software dev and have used computers since I could walk and have been involved with forums nearly as long (some being very much comparable to this in size, so don't think I don't understand the logistics) - there is no 'alluding' to my experience with technology - it's there in black and white.



Will never ever get bored of this quote.

Did he type that with a serious face?

Oh..he sure did. I'll send you the link...it's a riot. Telling a moderator on GAABoard what shit a job they are doing!!

Ah lovely, he's like one of those very self-confident 8 year old girls.

More like this

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/01/07/21/3BEE444E00000578-4098090-image-m-11_1483823157711.jpg)

Well done.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 12, 2018, 11:44:09 PM
Reflecting on the week that it's been I would make the following observations
1 McElduff has a sense of humour worse than Tony Fearon's
2 McElduff needs to grow up.
3 McElduff meant no harm with his antic - he didn't notice the brand or make the connection
4 Unionist politicians know this
5 Kingsmill victims don't because Kingsmill is at the forefront of their minds & they think this is the same for everyone
6 Kingsmill victims are therefore upset over this
7 Unionist politicians, instead of trying to assist victims by explaining that McElduff is a harmless bollix and its nothing to get excited over, exploit the episode for their own political gain
8 Unionist politicians have more to be ashamed of than McElduff
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 12, 2018, 11:51:31 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 12, 2018, 11:44:09 PM
Reflecting on the week that it's been I would make the following observations
1 McIlduff has a sense of humour worse than Tony Fearon's
2 McIlduff needs to grow up.
3 McIlduff meant no harm with his antic - he didn't notice the brand or make the connection
4 Unionist politicians know this
5 Kingsmill victims don't because Kingsmill is at the forefront of their minds & they think this is the same for everyone
6 Kingsmill victims are therefore upset over this
7 Unionist politicians, instead of trying to assist victims by explaining that McIlduff is a harmless bollix and its nothing to get excited over, exploit the episode for their own political gain
8 Unionist politicians have more to be ashamed of than McIlduff

I would agree with your first 7 points, but don't think a politician here is capable of being ashamed
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpose' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 13, 2018, 12:25:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpose' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Leo Varadkar buys it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 13, 2018, 12:25:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpose' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Leo Varadkar buys it

LV said he hopes he isn't re-elected too. First time you've heard doublespeak from a politician?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 13, 2018, 12:34:37 AM
You really are demented.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 13, 2018, 08:13:28 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Doesn't look like it, it also doesn't look like ye were fitted with a backbone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 13, 2018, 09:54:17 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 13, 2018, 08:13:28 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Doesn't look like it, it also doesn't look like ye were fitted with a backbone.

Same way Gaughan, Stagg and McNeela from Mayo haven't I suppose?  They'd be share my views more to be honest. By the way, RIP Rosaleen Sands. Don't remember that being on RTÉ news during the week.  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 13, 2018, 10:04:09 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 12, 2018, 11:44:09 PM
Reflecting on the week that it's been I would make the following observations
1 McElduff has a sense of humour worse than Tony Fearon's
2 McElduff needs to grow up.
3 McElduff meant no harm with his antic - he didn't notice the brand or make the connection
4 Unionist politicians know this
5 Kingsmill victims don't because Kingsmill is at the forefront of their minds & they think this is the same for everyone
6 Kingsmill victims are therefore upset over this
7 Unionist politicians, instead of trying to assist victims by explaining that McElduff is a harmless bollix and its nothing to get excited over, exploit the episode for their own political gain
8 Unionist politicians have more to be ashamed of than McElduff
I'm not 100% convinved that there was malicious intent in McElduff's actions, however, you cannot say for sure that he meant no harm.  There is just too much of a coincidence I'm afraid.  As such, Points 4, 7 and 8 above are horseshit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 13, 2018, 10:10:28 AM
I believe it was a huge coincidence and that Barry is no way nasty to set out to slag off the victims of the Kingsmills killings. Like the chances of winning the lotto are millions to one but someone wins it. This was the very unfortunate flipside of that and I suspect many opportunist unionists know that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 13, 2018, 10:14:50 AM
Quote from: longballin on January 13, 2018, 10:10:28 AM
I believe it was a huge coincidence and that Barry is no way nasty to set out to slag off the victims of the Kingsmills killings. Like the chances of winning the lotto are millions to one but someone wins it. This was the very unfortunate flipside of that and I suspect many opportunist unionists know that.
I would say many are unsure.  As I stated, you cannot say for sure either way.  A strong case, however, could be made that it was intentional.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on January 13, 2018, 10:15:59 AM
I made no connection to the bread and this atrocity.These atrocities are more recognisable not by the location but by phrases like "Ten Protestant workmen", "The Reavey Brothers", etc.

I do not want to get into any whataboutery,they were all innocent people,but I contend Ian Paisley's malicious lies about Eugene Reavey's alleged IRA membership,at a time when his elderly mother was still alive,and refusal to apologise was far worse than Mc Elduff acting the lig.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 13, 2018, 11:03:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpose' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Right, expert. Explain to me, what benefit, political or otherwise, McElduff would have by deliberately tweeting something like this?

No nationalist or republican public representative would stand to benefit from behaviour of this nature. It's not like when Unionists need a few extra votes, or or under pressure of some sort and they can resort to this sort of shite (albeit usually more subtle) in order to get a few votes or support from Loyalists.

You might not even have to wait until the end of the month for an example  this, when the flags of a certain BA regiment go up followed by predictable deafening silence
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 13, 2018, 11:06:58 AM
Quote from: michaelg on January 13, 2018, 10:04:09 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 12, 2018, 11:44:09 PM
Reflecting on the week that it's been I would make the following observations
1 McElduff has a sense of humour worse than Tony Fearon's
2 McElduff needs to grow up.
3 McElduff meant no harm with his antic - he didn't notice the brand or make the connection
4 Unionist politicians know this
5 Kingsmill victims don't because Kingsmill is at the forefront of their minds & they think this is the same for everyone
6 Kingsmill victims are therefore upset over this
7 Unionist politicians, instead of trying to assist victims by explaining that McElduff is a harmless bollix and its nothing to get excited over, exploit the episode for their own political gain
8 Unionist politicians have more to be ashamed of than McElduff
I'm not 100% convinved that there was malicious intent in McElduff's actions, however, you cannot say for sure that he meant no harm.  There is just too much of a coincidence I'm afraid.  As such, Points 4, 7 and 8 above are horseshit.
On point 4, William Crawley has said that Unionists politicians off the record have stated that they didn't think he intended any offence. That's not to say he didn't cause a huge amount - he did.
Point 7 - see Christopher Stanford, and his tweet that he had to delete.
Point 8 - Would not say it is horseshit but certainly don't agree, no real moral high ground in all of this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 13, 2018, 11:09:23 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?
What do you mean "out of hand?" John O'Dowd's family suffered immense loss that same week in Jan 1976 so maybe he's in a better position to speak and empathise with Kingsmill relatives?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armamike on January 13, 2018, 11:15:28 AM
On the face of it 3 months suspension isn't that big a deal but I'd say longer term Barry's career is over.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:20:42 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 13, 2018, 11:09:23 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?
What do you mean "out of hand?" John O'Dowd's family suffered immense loss that same week in Jan 1976 so maybe he's in a better position to speak and empathise with Kingsmill relatives?
Unreservedly
Categorically
Emphatically.
In no uncertain terms.
I know John had relatives brutally murdered too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on January 13, 2018, 11:58:40 AM
Rossfan,Paisley may be dead,but Eugene Reavey isn't.His hurt continues,no progress in catching the murderers,and to have this hateful slur unretracted causes him deep pain.It would help if Arlene Foster or Ian Paisley Jnr apologised and acknowledged Paisley was wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:37:22 PM
Agreed Tony.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 13, 2018, 11:03:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpose' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Right, expert. Explain to me, what benefit, political or otherwise, McElduff would have by deliberately tweeting something like this?

No nationalist or republican public representative would stand to benefit from behaviour of this nature. It's not like when Unionists need a few extra votes, or or under pressure of some sort and they can resort to this sort of shite (albeit usually more subtle) in order to get a few votes or support from Loyalists.

You might not even have to wait until the end of the month for an example  this, when the flags of a certain BA regiment go up followed by predictable deafening silence

Are you trying to apply reasoned, measured logic to something in the north of Ireland?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on January 13, 2018, 03:55:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 13, 2018, 11:03:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpose' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Right, expert. Explain to me, what benefit, political or otherwise, McElduff would have by deliberately tweeting something like this?

No nationalist or republican public representative would stand to benefit from behaviour of this nature. It's not like when Unionists need a few extra votes, or or under pressure of some sort and they can resort to this sort of shite (albeit usually more subtle) in order to get a few votes or support from Loyalists.

You might not even have to wait until the end of the month for an example  this, when the flags of a certain BA regiment go up followed by predictable deafening silence

Are you trying to apply reasoned, measured logic to something in the north of Ireland?

I find this whole case bizarre , almost surreal. Whilst there has been no political progress in over a year, politicians have been exercised all week around this issue. The impassioned and dignified response from Kingsmills  family member, and John O'Dowd's heartfelt and empathic intervention has hopefully put an end to the cynical opportunism surrounding the incident.
Putting subjective political opinion to one side which of the 2 scenarios below is most likely?
1. The scenario painted by Niamh Mcilduff: her dad with a history of childishly putting items on his head ( dad humour) , Sent by her into a shop at midnight to get bread, Lifts the most popular brand in the shop and videos himself saying "Fred where's the bread,"  in line with a well known TV ad . He like most people was unaware of the 42nd anniversary of Kingsmills , and like most people doesn't connect kingsmill bread with the Kingsmills massacre, and as a republican , presumably deeply ashamed about Kingsmill's. Though known  as a" class clown" , Mcilduff Has no history of such repulsive coat-trailing behaviour . He's a university graduate , and politically sensitive ( as displayed by his early and fulsome apology) , and if he meant this , he would have been well aware that such a deliberate action would amount to political suicide.
2. The scenario painted by his political opponents and others (who apparently took 36 hours to be offended) , ie that he thought it would be a good idea , on the anniversary of One the most grotesque  atrocities of the troubles, which is an embarrassment to republicans, to callously mock victims and their families, and in the process lose the hard  earned credibility and affection he had developed From within the unionist community over several years, and completely fly in the face of the "equality & respect " agenda which is actively promoted by his party.

I have unqualified sympathy and respect for the Kingsmills families . Coming from a nationalist background I have always been deeply embarrassed and ashamed by massacres such as Kingsmills, which were purportedly perpetrated on behalf of my community.
And I think it's important that the Kingsmills families should be reassured that there is little doubt this was a childish humour and complete coincidence , and that there would be no truck in the nationalist republican community for anyone deliberately mocking this horrendous massacre.
Those who promote the alternative and ridiculously improbable scenario , do The Kingsmills bereaved no favours. They would be better served working tirelessly for victims and helping them to find truth and some degree of closure, rather than the cynical opportunism so typical of politics in the North.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seany on January 13, 2018, 04:13:58 PM
Good post 6 Sams. If you look at it all logically and rationally, there is not on person who would want to glorify Kingsmills because it was one of the most shameful, sectarian acts of the troubles. And Barry McElduff doesn't post provocative political stuff on his twitter, he uses it to take the mickey out of himeslf. He is totally innocent and his treatment this last week was totally disgraceful. Those who told the kingsmills survivors and spun it to them that it was a callous mockery of their suffering have a lot to answer for. When NI fans do 'the bouncy', we take them at their word that they aren't mocking the killing of Robbie Hamill. When Orangemen sing of Dollies Brae, we take them at their word that they are not glorifying the deaths of 30 Catholics by Orangemen that day and then Unionists speak in glowing terms of the UVF, we take them at their word that they mean the 1912 version. some day we will reflect that the shameful act that occurred last was not what Barry did, but the disgraceful mob rule treatment of him by the media, by opportunistic unionis tpoliticians and of course, by the SDLP who had a gilt edged opportunity to diffuse the situation and reassure unionists that McElduff meant no harm at all, but chose to join the attack.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 13, 2018, 04:39:08 PM
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre.

This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link. He should've used his loaf (pun intended) and picked a different loaf. Or better still, cop on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: foxcommander on January 13, 2018, 04:42:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 13, 2018, 04:39:08 PM
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre. This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link.

If the name of the loaf of bread is offensive surely it shouldn't be on the shelves in Northern Ireland if that's the first image that springs to mind when you're buying it??

I'd like a loaf of protestant workmen massacre please.  Get the f**king name changed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on January 13, 2018, 05:15:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 13, 2018, 04:42:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 13, 2018, 04:39:08 PM
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre. This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link.

If the name of the loaf of bread is offensive surely it shouldn't be on the shelves in Northern Ireland if that's the first image that springs to mind when you're buying it??

I'd like a loaf of protestant workmen massacre please.  Get the f**king name changed.

How can we possibly avoid all potential connections with incidents in the conflict . Do we ask U2 to change the name of "Sunday Bloody Sunday ". Do we change the name of the song "Enniskillen fusiliers", do we change the name of the "Shankill Rd", or "Sean Graham's" bookies, and not mention any of these names in case we might offend ?
Or do we behave with maturity?
I think there's a very clear distinction between :
1.using names in a normal fashion , or inadvertently,
or 2. Abusing those same names to cause offence.

Mcilduff's sense of humour/class clown persona is well known , and to date had not caused offence. There is little doubt that the Mcilduff/Kingsmill scenario was a dreadfully unfortunate coincidence . It only became contentious when political opponents such as Jim Allister ( to be expected) and McCrossan whose intervention appeared opportunistic , jumped in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 05:21:59 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on January 13, 2018, 05:15:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 13, 2018, 04:42:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 13, 2018, 04:39:08 PM
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre. This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link.

If the name of the loaf of bread is offensive surely it shouldn't be on the shelves in Northern Ireland if that's the first image that springs to mind when you're buying it??

I'd like a loaf of protestant workmen massacre please.  Get the f**king name changed.

How can we possibly avoid all potential connections with incidents in the conflict . Do we ask U2 to change the names of "Sunday Bloody Sunday ". Do we change the name of the song Enniskillen fusiliers, do we change the name of the shankill Rd, or Sean Graham's bookies, and not mention any of these names in case we might offend ?
I think there's a very clear distinction between 1.using names in a normal fashion , or inadvertently, or 2. Abusing those same names to cause offence.

Mcilduff's sense of humour/class clown persona is well known , and to date had not caused offence, there is little doubt that the Kingsmill issue was a dreadfully unfortunate coincidence . It only became contentious when political opponents such as Jim Allister ( to be expected) and McCrossan whose intervention appeared opportunistic .

It's not hard to make an issue out of someone putting a loaf of Kingsmill bread on his head on the 42nd anniversary of the Kingsmill massacre. Stop trying to shift some of the blame to the unionists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on January 13, 2018, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 05:21:59 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on January 13, 2018, 05:15:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 13, 2018, 04:42:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 13, 2018, 04:39:08 PM
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre. This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link.

If the name of the loaf of bread is offensive surely it shouldn't be on the shelves in Northern Ireland if that's the first image that springs to mind when you're buying it??

I'd like a loaf of protestant workmen massacre please.  Get the f**king name changed.

How can we possibly avoid all potential connections with incidents in the conflict . Do we ask U2 to change the names of "Sunday Bloody Sunday ". Do we change the name of the song Enniskillen fusiliers, do we change the name of the shankill Rd, or Sean Graham's bookies, and not mention any of these names in case we might offend ?
I think there's a very clear distinction between 1.using names in a normal fashion , or inadvertently, or 2. Abusing those same names to cause offence.

Mcilduff's sense of humour/class clown persona is well known , and to date had not caused offence, there is little doubt that the Kingsmill issue was a dreadfully unfortunate coincidence . It only became contentious when political opponents such as Jim Allister ( to be expected) and McCrossan whose intervention appeared opportunistic .

It's not hard to make an issue out of someone putting a loaf of Kingsmill bread on his head on the 42nd anniversary of the Kingsmill massacre. Stop trying to shift some of the blame to the unionists.

Have you actually read these posts?
I'm not an apologist for McIlduff or his party. I'm just dealing with fact and giving a clear rationale for his off-the-cuff actions , and the calculated actions  of  opponents ( unionist & nationalist) who have a vested interest in demonising McIlduff.
Please don't confuse me with others on this board, including yourself , who have turned this unfortunate incident into an irrelevant partitionist North v South cat fight .

Facts:
Kingsmill is a popular brand which most people don't associate with the Kingsmills massacre
He has history of putting other items on his head
He has no history of mocking victims
Most people don't know the date of anniversaries in the North( eg I am close to Loughinisland and I don't know the date of the anniversary, much to my shame)
Those most vocally critical are those with most to gain

A just and appropriate response to this incident , would have been taking the opportunity to reflect on the dreadful pain inflicted on families in the conflict, and actively support victims , rather than stir the pot for political expediency .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 13, 2018, 05:55:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 13, 2018, 04:39:08 PM
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre.

This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link. He should've used his loaf (pun intended) and picked a different loaf. Or better still, cop on.

Kingsmill may be a popular brand, but McElduff should have had more sense than to tweet anything about Kingsmill given his previous involvement in controversy re the Raymond McCreesh park naming, given that a large part of the objection in that case is because McCreesh had a weapon used in Kingsmills. Likewise having done this, he should stay out of the way for the next 3 months

And as for having political sense, he was pictured at work in the SF office in Omagh after he had been suspended, which suggests that someone has no political sense.

If you are going to be a political representative then you must accept that you are in the public eye, and you should not be acting the clown in public. If you want to send your daughter a picture of you with a loaf on your head then use Whatsapp, not Twitter. Likewise having created this mess he should stay out of the way entirely for 3 months, go and walk the Camino or something.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 13, 2018, 07:19:19 PM
He probably grabbed a loaf and stuck it on his head rather than read the brand. Makes no sense at all that he would make fun about Kingsmill massacre as its not in his character and if he did was obvious what the uproar after would be...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:26:18 PM
"He has a history of putting things on his head"

He is a public figure. He should drop the childishness
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 13, 2018, 07:30:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:26:18 PM
"He has a history of putting things on his head"

He is a public figure. He should drop the childishness

can't disgree with that but a far cry from making joke about Kingsmill massacre
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on January 13, 2018, 07:59:43 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 13, 2018, 07:30:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2018, 07:26:18 PM
"He has a history of putting things on his head"

He is a public figure. He should drop the childishness

can't disgree with that but a far cry from making joke about Kingsmill massacre

Absolutely agree re the  behaviour of public representatives .
I dont get the humour, or the need to share it outside of his family .
However , the childishness of his actions is not what he was pilloried for .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 13, 2018, 09:43:37 PM
Can anyone explain how Bea Worton, mother of a Kingsmills victim, has been receiving prank calls referring to Kingsmill bread in the period before Christmas?  Is it evidence of a sick joke doing the rounds in private and dog whistled by McElduff?

Mrs Worton is quoted in Belfast Telegraph:

"I have had calls asking for 10 slices of Kingsmill bread for toasting - that must have been last October or November," she revealed.

"I have also had calls where they are laughing loudly, saying: 'You think you are smart and you will do harm to us'.

"In others they laugh hysterically when I pick up the phone and I know what's coming, so I put the phone down.

"It's very hurtful, it's just distasteful. I would say I have had nine or 10 calls in all, up to just before Christmas.

"The fact that they are doing this to me makes me think that they are hurting, that they have something on their conscience which is making them try to hurt me, but I won't let them do that."

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2018, 10:10:40 PM
Owen are you trying to connect the calls to Barry McElduff in someway? Seriously?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?

There you go with time again. Does Paisleys remarks being so long time ago make them any less hurtful?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on January 13, 2018, 10:34:19 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 13, 2018, 09:43:37 PM
Can anyone explain how Bea Worton, mother of a Kingsmills victim, has been receiving prank calls referring to Kingsmill bread in the period before Christmas?  Is it evidence of a sick joke doing the rounds in private and dog whistled by McElduff?

Mrs Worton is quoted in Belfast Telegraph:

"I have had calls asking for 10 slices of Kingsmill bread for toasting - that must have been last October or November," she revealed.

"I have also had calls where they are laughing loudly, saying: 'You think you are smart and you will do harm to us'.

"In others they laugh hysterically when I pick up the phone and I know what's coming, so I put the phone down.

"It's very hurtful, it's just distasteful. I would say I have had nine or 10 calls in all, up to just before Christmas.

"The fact that they are doing this to me makes me think that they are hurting, that they have something on their conscience which is making them try to hurt me, but I won't let them do that."

Absolutely Dreadful.
The thought that anyone would want to impact further pain on those who have suffered most, is more evidence of our dysfunctional,  pathological society. The tragic victims of this week's nonsense are primarily  the Kingsmills  families who deserve nothing but sympathy , protection , and support .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 10:45:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?

There you go with time again. Does Paisleys remarks being so long time ago make them any less hurtful?

People rightly laugh at those in the north who attempt whataboutry when their 'team' fúcks up. Only those who have party membership buy that sort of logical fallacy as being relevant or a mitigating factor.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2018, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 10:45:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?

There you go with time again. Does Paisleys remarks being so long time ago make them any less hurtful?

People rightly laugh at those in the north who attempt whataboutry when their 'team' fúcks up. Only those who have party membership buy that sort of logical fallacy as being relevant or a mitigating factor.
.
It's good to be able to laugh. I find the hypocrites from the south nausating on this thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 11:04:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 10:45:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?

There you go with time again. Does Paisleys remarks being so long time ago make them any less hurtful?

People rightly laugh at those in the north who attempt whataboutry when their 'team' fúcks up. Only those who have party membership buy that sort of logical fallacy as being relevant or a mitigating factor.

What are you talking about now? What has the drivel you just posted have to do with my post
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 01:53:51 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened

Do you, though?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 09:37:12 AM
Why can't get clearly ask the question?
WHAT IS THE FKN QUESTION?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 10:45:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?

There you go with time again. Does Paisleys remarks being so long time ago make them any less hurtful?

People rightly laugh at those in the north who attempt whataboutry when their 'team' fúcks up. Only those who have party membership buy that sort of logical fallacy as being relevant or a mitigating factor.

You laugh at us? Do you laugh at the Stardust victims and Mary Boyle too or do you just try to aribrush it out of your history?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 01:53:51 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened

Do you, though?

Nationalists will always feel shame over the likes of Kingsmill, Enniskillen etc.

Now answer me this do you feel shame over Dunmanway, Balleyseedy etc or is it only nationalists that should feel shame over atrocities committed in their name?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 01:53:51 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened

Do you, though?

Nationalists will always feel shame over the likes of Kingsmill, Enniskillen etc.

Now answer me this do you feel shame over Dunmanway, Balleyseedy etc or is it only nationalists that should feel shame over atrocities committed in their name?
Northern Ireland is volatile. The South is not. NI could collapse again into intercommunal violence. The South won't. 
Enniskillen could and probably will be repeated. Dunmanway will not. That is the difference 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 10:03:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 01:53:51 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened

Do you, though?

Nationalists will always feel shame over the likes of Kingsmill, Enniskillen etc.

Now answer me this do you feel shame over Dunmanway, Balleyseedy etc or is it only nationalists that should feel shame over atrocities committed in their name?
Northern Ireland is volatile. The South is not. NI could collapse again into intercommunal violence. The South won't. 
Enniskillen could and probably will be repeated. Dunmanway will not. That is the difference

Nonsense.

After Omagh which is over 20 years ago there has not been any paramilitary attack that has caused mass civilian deaths. Those things are in the past, like Dunmanway as you say. I find it a bit rich of free staters to moralise about contrition and shame when they have never shown any for their own reprehensible acts in gaining their freedom.

Aidan McAnespire's 30th Anniversary is coming up next month, maybe the Roscommon Brownshirts should go and try and understand what life could be like for Northern nationalists trying to live their lives during that period of time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 10:52:43 AM
A British thug kills an Irishman 30 years ago because of Roscommon "Brownshirts"????????
Time you changed your tablets😁😂

I suspect Bombast considers herself an Irish Citizen and if ever moves from the cave in Tyrone will use an Irish passport.

Does she feel any shame being a citizen and passport holder of the State she holds in such disdain?

Now I've got to go out and partake in the real world and go to the Hyde later. Must keep a look out for "Brownshirts"😆😆😆😆
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 11:31:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 10:52:43 AM
A British thug kills an Irishman 30 years ago because of Roscommon "Brownshirts"????????
Time you changed your tablets😁😂

I suspect Bombast considers herself an Irish Citizen and if ever moves from the cave in Tyrone will use an Irish passport.

Does she feel any shame being a citizen and passport holder of the State she holds in such disdain?

Now I've got to go out and partake in the real world and go to the Hyde later. Must keep a look out for "Brownshirts"😆😆😆😆

A pity you continually try and avoid the issue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 10:03:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 01:53:51 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened

Do you, though?

Nationalists will always feel shame over the likes of Kingsmill, Enniskillen etc.

Now answer me this do you feel shame over Dunmanway, Balleyseedy etc or is it only nationalists that should feel shame over atrocities committed in their name?
Northern Ireland is volatile. The South is not. NI could collapse again into intercommunal violence. The South won't. 
Enniskillen could and probably will be repeated. Dunmanway will not. That is the difference

Nonsense.

After Omagh which is over 20 years ago there has not been any paramilitary attack that has caused mass civilian deaths. Those things are in the past, like Dunmanway as you say. I find it a bit rich of free staters to moralise about contrition and shame when they have never shown any for their own reprehensible acts in gaining their freedom.

Aidan McAnespire's 30th Anniversary is coming up next month, maybe the Roscommon Brownshirts should go and try and understand what life could be like for Northern nationalists trying to live their lives during that period of time.
20 years is nothing in a dysfunctional society. NI has a long history of political violence over the last 100 years.
Roscommon doesn't. 

https://youtu.be/G7qEivYkgZM
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 11:55:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 10:03:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 01:53:51 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened

Do you, though?

Nationalists will always feel shame over the likes of Kingsmill, Enniskillen etc.

Now answer me this do you feel shame over Dunmanway, Balleyseedy etc or is it only nationalists that should feel shame over atrocities committed in their name?
Northern Ireland is volatile. The South is not. NI could collapse again into intercommunal violence. The South won't. 
Enniskillen could and probably will be repeated. Dunmanway will not. That is the difference

Nonsense.

After Omagh which is over 20 years ago there has not been any paramilitary attack that has caused mass civilian deaths. Those things are in the past, like Dunmanway as you say. I find it a bit rich of free staters to moralise about contrition and shame when they have never shown any for their own reprehensible acts in gaining their freedom.

Aidan McAnespire's 30th Anniversary is coming up next month, maybe the Roscommon Brownshirts should go and try and understand what life could be like for Northern nationalists trying to live their lives during that period of time.
20 years is nothing in a dysfunctional society. NI has a long history of political violence over the last 100 years.
Roscommon doesn't. 

https://youtu.be/G7qEivYkgZM

As I told you earlier, you are talking nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 14, 2018, 01:01:36 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan
Can anyone explain how Bea Worton, mother of a Kingsmills victim, has been receiving prank calls referring to Kingsmill bread in the period before Christmas?  Is it evidence of a sick joke doing the rounds in private and dog whistled by McElduff?

Mrs Worton is quoted in Belfast Telegraph:

"I have had calls asking for 10 slices of Kingsmill bread for toasting - that must have been last October or November," she revealed.

"I have also had calls where they are laughing loudly, saying: 'You think you are smart and you will do harm to us'.

"In others they laugh hysterically when I pick up the phone and I know what's coming, so I put the phone down.

"It's very hurtful, it's just distasteful. I would say I have had nine or 10 calls in all, up to just before Christmas.

"The fact that they are doing this to me makes me think that they are hurting, that they have something on their conscience which is making them try to hurt me, but I won't let them do that."

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2018, 10:10:40 PM
Owen are you trying to connect the calls to Barry McElduff in someway? Seriously?

I would be certain that McElduff was not responsible for or involved in the trolling of Mrs Worton and making these horrific telephone calls referring to Kingsmill bread.  However, given these claims by Mrs Worton, it would appear that the reference to Kingsmill bread and the victims of the massacre carried out by the IRA at Kingsmills was/is active/known among some who supported the armed conflict.  My question was whether McElduff was aware of such references in making his video. These claims by Mrs Worton about the calls she was receiving before Christmas add a further layer of supposed 'coincidence' to McElduff's choice of bread from all the brands sold in that shop. Certainly would appear to be a coincidence too far.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 14, 2018, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 14, 2018, 01:01:36 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan
Can anyone explain how Bea Worton, mother of a Kingsmills victim, has been receiving prank calls referring to Kingsmill bread in the period before Christmas?  Is it evidence of a sick joke doing the rounds in private and dog whistled by McElduff?

Mrs Worton is quoted in Belfast Telegraph:

"I have had calls asking for 10 slices of Kingsmill bread for toasting - that must have been last October or November," she revealed.

"I have also had calls where they are laughing loudly, saying: 'You think you are smart and you will do harm to us'.

"In others they laugh hysterically when I pick up the phone and I know what's coming, so I put the phone down.

"It's very hurtful, it's just distasteful. I would say I have had nine or 10 calls in all, up to just before Christmas.

"The fact that they are doing this to me makes me think that they are hurting, that they have something on their conscience which is making them try to hurt me, but I won't let them do that."

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2018, 10:10:40 PM
Owen are you trying to connect the calls to Barry McElduff in someway? Seriously?

I would be certain that McElduff was not responsible for or involved in the trolling of Mrs Worton and making these horrific telephone calls referring to Kingsmill bread.  However, given these claims by Mrs Worton, it would appear that the reference to Kingsmill bread and the victims of the massacre carried out by the IRA at Kingsmills was/is active/known among some who supported the armed conflict.  My question was whether McElduff was aware of such references in making his video. These claims by Mrs Worton about the calls she was receiving before Christmas add a further layer of supposed 'coincidence' to McElduff's choice of bread from all the brands sold in that shop. Certainly would appear to be a coincidence too far.

Even by the standards of the GAA board this is an unusual post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 09:37:12 AM
Why can't get clearly ask the question?
WHAT IS THE FKN QUESTION?

the question has been asked 4/5 times. If you don't want to answer it that says it all really
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 02:57:54 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 01:53:51 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened

Do you, though?

I do yeah as I said to rossfan when I initially asked how long we have to wait before we can stop feeling shame about such events
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 11:55:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 10:03:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 01:53:51 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened

Do you, though?

Nationalists will always feel shame over the likes of Kingsmill, Enniskillen etc.

Now answer me this do you feel shame over Dunmanway, Balleyseedy etc or is it only nationalists that should feel shame over atrocities committed in their name?
Northern Ireland is volatile. The South is not. NI could collapse again into intercommunal violence. The South won't. 
Enniskillen could and probably will be repeated. Dunmanway will not. That is the difference

Nonsense.

After Omagh which is over 20 years ago there has not been any paramilitary attack that has caused mass civilian deaths. Those things are in the past, like Dunmanway as you say. I find it a bit rich of free staters to moralise about contrition and shame when they have never shown any for their own reprehensible acts in gaining their freedom.

Aidan McAnespire's 30th Anniversary is coming up next month, maybe the Roscommon Brownshirts should go and try and understand what life could be like for Northern nationalists trying to live their lives during that period of time.
20 years is nothing in a dysfunctional society. NI has a long history of political violence over the last 100 years.
Roscommon doesn't. 

https://youtu.be/G7qEivYkgZM

As I told you earlier, you are talking nonsense.
Polarised socities breed political violence.Paisleys grow where there is hatred. Even if things are calm you have parades. Lie down croppies is every year.

The most exciting thing that happens in Roscommon is Mayo in the Hyde.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 03:12:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 11:55:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 10:03:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 01:53:51 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpsoe' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is buying that excuse lads.

Is it just me or are all westies clueless ! between Syfillis and Rossfan i don't know which is the biggest tit!
All "Westies" have a level of brains ( excent nerdy geeky Syfīn  of course) and  humour which seems  to be far beyond the ken of Nordies .

Are you gonna answer my question about shame? I'm not that bothered about who you vote for to be honest. None of my business but I'm interested in your view on when it's ok to not feel shame over atrocities
Asked you last night what us your effin question.
What is the question???

You will be a good politician. Always avoiding the question when you know fine rightly what it is.
How long do we have to wait for the shame of something to go away? Or is it only northern republicans who have to feel shame over things which happened

Do you, though?

Nationalists will always feel shame over the likes of Kingsmill, Enniskillen etc.

Now answer me this do you feel shame over Dunmanway, Balleyseedy etc or is it only nationalists that should feel shame over atrocities committed in their name?
Northern Ireland is volatile. The South is not. NI could collapse again into intercommunal violence. The South won't. 
Enniskillen could and probably will be repeated. Dunmanway will not. That is the difference

Nonsense.

After Omagh which is over 20 years ago there has not been any paramilitary attack that has caused mass civilian deaths. Those things are in the past, like Dunmanway as you say. I find it a bit rich of free staters to moralise about contrition and shame when they have never shown any for their own reprehensible acts in gaining their freedom.

Aidan McAnespire's 30th Anniversary is coming up next month, maybe the Roscommon Brownshirts should go and try and understand what life could be like for Northern nationalists trying to live their lives during that period of time.
20 years is nothing in a dysfunctional society. NI has a long history of political violence over the last 100 years.
Roscommon doesn't. 

https://youtu.be/G7qEivYkgZM

As I told you earlier, you are talking nonsense.
Polarised socities breed political violence.Paisleys grow where there is hatred. Even if things are calm you have parades. Lie down croppies is every year.

The most exciting thing that happens in Roscommon is Mayo in the Hyde.

So the Roscommon Brownshirts who are moralising and pontificating on Northern issues have no understanding of the environment in which they were born into and grew up in. It's a bit rich of them to be giving out lectures so and even moreso when they ignore the atrocities committed for their own state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 05:34:50 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 09:37:12 AM
Why can't get clearly ask the question?
WHAT IS THE FKN QUESTION?

the question has been asked 4/5 times. If you don't want to answer it that says it all really
For the 3rd time
WHAT IS THE QUESTION?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 05:34:50 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 09:37:12 AM
Why can't get clearly ask the question?
WHAT IS THE FKN QUESTION?

the question has been asked 4/5 times. If you don't want to answer it that says it all really
For the 3rd time
WHAT IS THE QUESTION?

read your PMs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 05:47:25 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 05:34:50 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 09:37:12 AM
Why can't get clearly ask the question?
WHAT IS THE FKN QUESTION?

the question has been asked 4/5 times. If you don't want to answer it that says it all really
For the 3rd time
WHAT IS THE QUESTION?

read your PMs

You could have just said what the fecking question was.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 05:52:10 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 14, 2018, 05:47:25 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 05:34:50 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 09:37:12 AM
Why can't get clearly ask the question?
WHAT IS THE FKN QUESTION?

the question has been asked 4/5 times. If you don't want to answer it that says it all really
For the 3rd time
WHAT IS THE QUESTION?

read your PMs

You could have just said what the fecking question was.

4 or 5 times its been said
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 06:23:25 PM
How long must republicans feel shame for Kingsmill and the like?
Don't know if it's for me to say who should or shouldn't be shamed but anyway -
In the absence of a truth and reconciliation commission type thing - in practice probably till all involved and the victims relatives who were alive at the time pass away.
Nobody ought to feel shame for what others did before they were born.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 14, 2018, 06:32:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 06:23:25 PM
How long must republicans feel shame for Kingsmill and the like?
Don't know if it's for me to say who should or shouldn't be shamed but anyway -
In the absence of a truth and reconciliation commission type thing - in practice probably till all involved and the victims relatives who were alive at the time pass away.
Nobody ought to feel shame for what others did before they were born.

Good answer. I identify as an Irish Republican and atrocities like Kingsmill/Enniskillen/Omagh to name a few shame, not only me, but Irish Republicanism as a whole. I don't think there should ever be a time when that isn't the case
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2018, 06:37:06 PM
Like the civil war in the 26 when all involved pass away....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 15, 2018, 10:02:18 AM
McElduf to resign, as per freestate  radio.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 15, 2018, 10:10:58 AM
Will Canavan be candidate in by election
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on January 15, 2018, 10:11:28 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 15, 2018, 10:02:18 AM
McElduf to resign, as per freestanding radio.

The right thing to do regardless of his intentions with the tweet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 15, 2018, 10:12:04 AM
No chance of a  DUP politician resign after many of their shameful outbursts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on January 15, 2018, 10:12:18 AM
Seems quite clear whats going on here. Whole affair orchestrated so that down the track Unionist knuckledraggers can be held to the same standard. Smart move.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theskull1 on January 15, 2018, 10:12:46 AM
More than most parties would have done for what I believe was one of the a stupidest of errors. Who in their right mind would be smug and smart about an embarrassment like Kingsmill? I wouldn't thing BMcE would have that in him. Does anyone think some republicans in dark corners are proud of it? I'd doubt it myself *

*Haven't read much of the thread so may be repeating arguments made elsewhere.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on January 15, 2018, 10:16:50 AM
I agree skull.

Still, this isn't a bad thing - a standard has been set for respect. Will be good to see it being adhered to going forward...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on January 15, 2018, 10:24:44 AM
Does this mean a by-election?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 15, 2018, 10:29:46 AM
Fair play to him for taking responsibility and doing the right thing. It may be a tad late but it is still now done. What this shows is that nationalists and republicans will hold their elected representatives to a high standard which is only right. Perhaps unionism now could think about doing the same given that they have some of the most vile individuals within their ranks doing things just as wrong as this and being held to no account. Same goes for the parties in the South who frequently allow unsavory individuals within their ranks. This is a good day for republicanism in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 15, 2018, 10:42:54 AM
I wonder if SF will indeed put Barney the Dinosaur up for the re-election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: GJL on January 15, 2018, 10:24:44 AM
Does this mean a by-election?

Yes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 15, 2018, 11:03:41 AM
I presume "Head Office" decided it was time he went due to the level of negative publicity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 15, 2018, 11:06:10 AM
This has been badly managed by SF from start to finish. O'Neill is no leader and never will be, she is a poor replacement and i still don't understand why she was picked for the job. The fact that media outlets were willing to take this into a second week shows that it was not going to be swept under the carpet so BMcE has done the right thing this time.
You have to fear for SF going forward if this is a sign of how they intend to manage small mistakes like this, there is a real possibility of them becoming how the SDLP are now if they are not careful.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 15, 2018, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 15, 2018, 11:03:41 AM
I presume "Head Office" decided it was time he went due to the level of negative publicity.

Either way, if you compare it to say how long Alan Shatter took before he got the bullet I think it is fair to say it was dealt with a lot quicker
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 15, 2018, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 15, 2018, 11:06:10 AM
This has been badly managed by SF from start to finish. O'Neill is no leader and never will be, she is a poor replacement and i still don't understand why she was picked for the job. The fact that media outlets were willing to take this into a second week shows that it was not going to be swept under the carpet so BMcE has done the right thing this time.
You have to fear for SF going forward if this is a sign of how they intend to manage small mistakes like this, there is a real possibility of them becoming how the SDLP are now if they are not careful.

Whilst I don't think BmE done it purposefully to cause hurt for Kingsmill survivors, it was more than a small mistake
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on January 15, 2018, 11:15:30 AM
Ultimately the correct decision, I think he should have done it a week ago but at least it show's some level of accountability for his actions. It sends a message out that certain standards are expected of public representatives and negates any accusations of hypocrisy. For the Sinn Fein bashers it will probably still not be enough though. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 15, 2018, 11:18:00 AM
Barry McElduff's resignation was most likely on the cards from last week. I'd guess that was the deal with the leadership, that he be allowed to resign and not be seen to be ousted by the sometimes faux outrage. Don't hold your breath on Unionist Politicians being held to the same standard, they have no shame.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
The result from the GE in June:

Barry McElduff (SF)            22,060        50.7%
Thomas Buchanan (DUP)    11,718        26.9%
Daniel McCrossan (SDLP)     5,635         13.0%
Alicia Clarke (UUP)              2,253          5.2%   
Stephen Donnelly (All)        1,000           2.3%
Ciaran McClean (Green)         427           1.0%
Barry Brown (CISTA)             393           0.9%

Majority                            10,342        23.8%

Turnout                            43,675        68.2%

On these figures it would take something earth shattering for SF to lose this seat.  McElduff got more than 50% of the vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 15, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 15, 2018, 11:18:00 AM
Barry McElduff's resignation was most likely on the cards from last week. I'd guess that was the deal with the leadership, that he be allowed to resign and not be seen to be ousted by the sometimes faux outrage. Don't hold your breath on Unionist Politicians being held to the same standard, they have no shame.

I'd say the interview Alan Black had with Miriam over the weekend put the tin hat on it. You could see it genuinely hurt him and that as one of the victims there was no party politics at play. What McElduff did negligently or otherwise was wrong and he had to go.

Now they're saying it took too long which is true but hopefully it will allow us to hold the Unionists to a higher standard going forward as some of the stuff they have gotten away with is shocking especially Arlene!

You would think the seat is fairly safe although the Unionists are already suggesting a bi-partisan victims candidate which will make it very difficult for Sinn Fein
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 15, 2018, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 15, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 15, 2018, 11:18:00 AM
Barry McElduff's resignation was most likely on the cards from last week. I'd guess that was the deal with the leadership, that he be allowed to resign and not be seen to be ousted by the sometimes faux outrage. Don't hold your breath on Unionist Politicians being held to the same standard, they have no shame.

I'd say the interview Alan Black had with Miriam over the weekend put the tin hat on it. You could see it genuinely hurt him and that as one of the victims there was no party politics at play. What McElduff did negligently or otherwise was wrong and he had to go.

Now they're saying it took too long which is true but hopefully it will allow us to hold the Unionists to a higher standard going forward as some of the stuff they have gotten away with is shocking especially Arlene!

You would think the seat is fairly safe although the Unionists are already suggesting a bi-partisan victims candidate which will make it very difficult for Sinn Fein

The cute thing to do would be for SF to support an agreed anti Brexit candidate, ideally a Protestant businessman. As Brexit is a once off this would not allow have their own candidate in the future.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:31:07 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 15, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 15, 2018, 11:18:00 AM
Barry McElduff's resignation was most likely on the cards from last week. I'd guess that was the deal with the leadership, that he be allowed to resign and not be seen to be ousted by the sometimes faux outrage. Don't hold your breath on Unionist Politicians being held to the same standard, they have no shame.

I'd say the interview Alan Black had with Miriam over the weekend put the tin hat on it. You could see it genuinely hurt him and that as one of the victims there was no party politics at play. What McElduff did negligently or otherwise was wrong and he had to go.

Now they're saying it took too long which is true but hopefully it will allow us to hold the Unionists to a higher standard going forward as some of the stuff they have gotten away with is shocking especially Arlene!

You would think the seat is fairly safe although the Unionists are already suggesting a bi-partisan victims candidate which will make it very difficult for Sinn Fein

This was tried before with Nigel Lutton in the Mid-Ulster by-election in 2013 without success (though I seem to remember that Lutton had some security force background?)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:33:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 15, 2018, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 15, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 15, 2018, 11:18:00 AM
Barry McElduff's resignation was most likely on the cards from last week. I'd guess that was the deal with the leadership, that he be allowed to resign and not be seen to be ousted by the sometimes faux outrage. Don't hold your breath on Unionist Politicians being held to the same standard, they have no shame.

I'd say the interview Alan Black had with Miriam over the weekend put the tin hat on it. You could see it genuinely hurt him and that as one of the victims there was no party politics at play. What McElduff did negligently or otherwise was wrong and he had to go.

Now they're saying it took too long which is true but hopefully it will allow us to hold the Unionists to a higher standard going forward as some of the stuff they have gotten away with is shocking especially Arlene!

You would think the seat is fairly safe although the Unionists are already suggesting a bi-partisan victims candidate which will make it very difficult for Sinn Fein

The cute thing to do would be for SF to support an agreed anti Brexit candidate, ideally a Protestant businessman. As Brexit is a once off this would not allow have their own candidate in the future.

First question...where do you stand on a United Ireland, Mr Protestant Businessman Anti-Brexit candidate??  This is West Tyrone we're talking about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 15, 2018, 11:36:59 AM
Arelene has some neck on her, saying that SF has some way to go...Jesus wept.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 15, 2018, 11:53:21 AM
Quote from: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:33:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 15, 2018, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 15, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 15, 2018, 11:18:00 AM
Barry McElduff's resignation was most likely on the cards from last week. I'd guess that was the deal with the leadership, that he be allowed to resign and not be seen to be ousted by the sometimes faux outrage. Don't hold your breath on Unionist Politicians being held to the same standard, they have no shame.

I'd say the interview Alan Black had with Miriam over the weekend put the tin hat on it. You could see it genuinely hurt him and that as one of the victims there was no party politics at play. What McElduff did negligently or otherwise was wrong and he had to go.

Now they're saying it took too long which is true but hopefully it will allow us to hold the Unionists to a higher standard going forward as some of the stuff they have gotten away with is shocking especially Arlene!

You would think the seat is fairly safe although the Unionists are already suggesting a bi-partisan victims candidate which will make it very difficult for Sinn Fein

The cute thing to do would be for SF to support an agreed anti Brexit candidate, ideally a Protestant businessman. As Brexit is a once off this would not allow have their own candidate in the future.

First question...where do you stand on a United Ireland, Mr Protestant Businessman Anti-Brexit candidate??  This is West Tyrone we're talking about.

The diplomatic answer would be that if the Brexit is fecked up then there should be a border poll.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armamike on January 15, 2018, 12:35:10 PM
I wouldn't be too critical of the timing. Politicians don't usually resign in a hurry so as resignations go it hasn't been too long drawn out.
It won't satisfy the DUP and TUV, but who cares about that.  Importantly for SF it restores a bit of credibility to them and their calls for respect etc.  They couldn't in all seriousness be seen to be continuing with that mantra, with the McElduff thing in the background.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 15, 2018, 12:48:10 PM
Of course, you can only resign as a Westminster MP by being appointed to an office such as the Chiltern Hundreds, so Barry will be an officer of the Crown for a few minutes anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 15, 2018, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 15, 2018, 12:48:10 PM
Of course, you can only resign as a Westminster MP by being appointed to an office such as the Chiltern Hundreds, so Barry will be an officer of the Crown for a few minutes anyway.

To hell with that and all thon british pomp and ceremony shit. He's resigned, full stop. Let the brits sort it out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 15, 2018, 01:18:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 15, 2018, 10:29:46 AM
Fair play to him for taking responsibility and doing the right thing. It may be a tad late but it is still now done. What this shows is that nationalists and republicans will hold their elected representatives to a high standard which is only right. Perhaps unionism now could think about doing the same given that they have some of the most vile individuals within their ranks doing things just as wrong as this and being held to no account. Same goes for the parties in the South who frequently allow unsavory individuals within their ranks. This is a good day for republicanism in my opinion.
I agree.
Very tough decision but the respect agenda is on again
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dire Ear on January 15, 2018, 02:33:41 PM
Quote from: longballin on January 15, 2018, 10:12:04 AM
No chance of a  DUP politician resign after many of their shameful outbursts.
100%, and anyone who thinks they're going to change over this , are delusional
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
The result from the GE in June:

Barry McElduff (SF)            22,060        50.7%
Thomas Buchanan (DUP)    11,718        26.9%
Daniel McCrossan (SDLP)     5,635         13.0%
Alicia Clarke (UUP)              2,253          5.2%   
Stephen Donnelly (All)        1,000           2.3%
Ciaran McClean (Green)         427           1.0%
Barry Brown (CISTA)             393           0.9%

Majority                            10,342        23.8%

Turnout                            43,675        68.2%

On these figures it would take something earth shattering for SF to lose this seat.  McElduff got more than 50% of the vote.

What would happen if the candidate was to be a victim of the Omagh bomb running on a respect/reconciliation ticket? 

The SF vote maxed out in 2017, while in WT many voters opposed to SF no longer vote as it is pointless on a split vote trying to have their preferred candidate elected, only core non-SF voters turn out. 

There is plenty of scope to increase the non-SF vote if there was a prospect of sending a strong message to the politicians that the sectarian nonsense has no future. Someone like Stanley McComb would be capable of drawing a considerable non-partisan vote and would highlight the case for the victims of the Omagh bomb in their campaign for a proper inquiry.

Like West Belfast, West Tyrone has gained nothing from its SF representation in government in Belfast and elected to Westminster.  It has lost the acute hospital to FST and the A5 will begin at the other end in Foyle instead of an extension to the A4 dual carriageway (another serious accident at Garvaghy on Saturday night) due to decisions by SF ministers seeking party votes in other constituencies.  No new employment to replace the downgrading of the lost civil service jobs and at the Education Authority.  Yet SF supporters continue to return representatives every time, strange.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on January 15, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
The result from the GE in June:

Barry McElduff (SF)            22,060        50.7%
Thomas Buchanan (DUP)    11,718        26.9%
Daniel McCrossan (SDLP)     5,635         13.0%
Alicia Clarke (UUP)              2,253          5.2%   
Stephen Donnelly (All)        1,000           2.3%
Ciaran McClean (Green)         427           1.0%
Barry Brown (CISTA)             393           0.9%

Majority                            10,342        23.8%

Turnout                            43,675        68.2%

On these figures it would take something earth shattering for SF to lose this seat.  McElduff got more than 50% of the vote.

What would happen if the candidate was to be a victim of the Omagh bomb running on a respect/reconciliation ticket? 

The SF vote maxed out in 2017, while in WT many voters opposed to SF no longer vote as it is pointless on a split vote trying to have their preferred candidate elected, only core non-SF voters turn out. 

There is plenty of scope to increase the non-SF vote if there was a prospect of sending a strong message to the politicians that the sectarian nonsense has no future. Someone like Stanley McComb would be capable of drawing a considerable non-partisan vote and would highlight the case for the victims of the Omagh bomb in their campaign for a proper inquiry.

Like West Belfast, West Tyrone has gained nothing from its SF representation in government in Belfast and elected to Westminster.  It has lost the acute hospital to FST and the A5 will begin at the other end in Foyle instead of an extension to the A4 dual carriageway (another serious accident at Garvaghy on Saturday night) due to decisions by SF ministers seeking party votes in other constituencies.  No new employment to replace the downgrading of the lost civil service jobs and at the Education Authority.  Yet SF supporters continue to return representatives every time, strange.


Do you have any facts to back any of this up?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 15, 2018, 03:56:51 PM
McElduff has walked the plank ( he has taken one for the team) Now they are going for O Muilleoir. Who was it said what happens when you feed the crocodile ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on January 15, 2018, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
the A5 will begin at the other end in Foyle instead of an extension to the A4 dual carriageway (another serious accident at Garvaghy on Saturday night) due to decisions by SF ministers seeking party votes in other constituencies. 

I know you feel aggrieved by this, but there are plenty of WT voters in Strabane who welcome that the road between Strabane and Derry will be improved in our part of the world sooner rather than later (speaking as someone who was knocked down as a child on the road between Strabane and Derry!).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 15, 2018, 04:31:37 PM
A week too late for any moral high ground!! Should gone on stupidity alone!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 15, 2018, 04:38:34 PM
Anyone who thinks this seat is there for the taking is seriously delusional. Both West Tyrone and Mid-Ulster are the safest seats for SF at the minute. Quit clutching at straws Owen. If there is going to be a victims campaigner stand, then be under no illusions SF will put in a big name,  personally would like to see Peter the Great stand.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 04:47:40 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 15, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
The result from the GE in June:

Barry McElduff (SF)            22,060        50.7%
Thomas Buchanan (DUP)    11,718        26.9%
Daniel McCrossan (SDLP)     5,635         13.0%
Alicia Clarke (UUP)              2,253          5.2%   
Stephen Donnelly (All)        1,000           2.3%
Ciaran McClean (Green)         427           1.0%
Barry Brown (CISTA)             393           0.9%

Majority                            10,342        23.8%

Turnout                            43,675        68.2%

On these figures it would take something earth shattering for SF to lose this seat.  McElduff got more than 50% of the vote.

What would happen if the candidate was to be a victim of the Omagh bomb running on a respect/reconciliation ticket? 

The SF vote maxed out in 2017, while in WT many voters opposed to SF no longer vote as it is pointless on a split vote trying to have their preferred candidate elected, only core non-SF voters turn out. 

There is plenty of scope to increase the non-SF vote if there was a prospect of sending a strong message to the politicians that the sectarian nonsense has no future. Someone like Stanley McComb would be capable of drawing a considerable non-partisan vote and would highlight the case for the victims of the Omagh bomb in their campaign for a proper inquiry.

Like West Belfast, West Tyrone has gained nothing from its SF representation in government in Belfast and elected to Westminster.  It has lost the acute hospital to FST and the A5 will begin at the other end in Foyle instead of an extension to the A4 dual carriageway (another serious accident at Garvaghy on Saturday night) due to decisions by SF ministers seeking party votes in other constituencies.  No new employment to replace the downgrading of the lost civil service jobs and at the Education Authority.  Yet SF supporters continue to return representatives every time, strange.


Do you have any facts to back any of this up?

The loss of the hospital and the change in the building of the A5 are facts.  Decisions taken by SF ministers are facts.  No new employment brought to replace jobs taken away by DUP-SF government by borrowing money to make people redundant are facts.  EA downgrading of WELB employment in Omagh a decision taken by SF minister is a fact.  SF supporters voting in SF candidates every time despite gaining nothing in terms of jobs or roads to the West and losing health facilities is a fact. Highest votes achieved in an election by SF in WT in 2017 elections is a fact.  Speaking to others who live in the constituency who do not support SF they are despondent at the lack of progress in health and employment and many tel me they no longer see a point of voting, others say they vote to stop their vote being stolen, that a fact.

Stanley McComb or another similar person of integrity standing in election against SF as a victims representative would beat SF, that's my opinion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 15, 2018, 04:52:55 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 04:47:40 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 15, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
The result from the GE in June:

Barry McElduff (SF)            22,060        50.7%
Thomas Buchanan (DUP)    11,718        26.9%
Daniel McCrossan (SDLP)     5,635         13.0%
Alicia Clarke (UUP)              2,253          5.2%   
Stephen Donnelly (All)        1,000           2.3%
Ciaran McClean (Green)         427           1.0%
Barry Brown (CISTA)             393           0.9%

Majority                            10,342        23.8%

Turnout                            43,675        68.2%

On these figures it would take something earth shattering for SF to lose this seat.  McElduff got more than 50% of the vote.

What would happen if the candidate was to be a victim of the Omagh bomb running on a respect/reconciliation ticket? 

The SF vote maxed out in 2017, while in WT many voters opposed to SF no longer vote as it is pointless on a split vote trying to have their preferred candidate elected, only core non-SF voters turn out. 

There is plenty of scope to increase the non-SF vote if there was a prospect of sending a strong message to the politicians that the sectarian nonsense has no future. Someone like Stanley McComb would be capable of drawing a considerable non-partisan vote and would highlight the case for the victims of the Omagh bomb in their campaign for a proper inquiry.

Like West Belfast, West Tyrone has gained nothing from its SF representation in government in Belfast and elected to Westminster.  It has lost the acute hospital to FST and the A5 will begin at the other end in Foyle instead of an extension to the A4 dual carriageway (another serious accident at Garvaghy on Saturday night) due to decisions by SF ministers seeking party votes in other constituencies.  No new employment to replace the downgrading of the lost civil service jobs and at the Education Authority.  Yet SF supporters continue to return representatives every time, strange.


Do you have any facts to back any of this up?

The loss of the hospital and the change in the building of the A5 are facts.  Decisions taken by SF ministers are facts.  No new employment brought to replace jobs taken away by DUP-SF government by borrowing money to make people redundant are facts.  EA downgrading of WELB employment in Omagh a decision taken by SF minister is a fact.  SF supporters voting in SF candidates every time despite gaining nothing in terms of jobs or roads to the West and losing health facilities is a fact. Highest votes achieved in an election by SF in WT in 2017 elections is a fact.  Speaking to others who live in the constituency who do not support SF they are despondent at the lack of progress in health and employment and many tel me they no longer see a point of voting, others say they vote to stop their vote being stolen, that a fact.

Stanley McComb or another similar person of integrity standing in election against SF as a victims representative would beat SF, that's my opinion.

Not a chance
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 15, 2018, 05:24:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 15, 2018, 11:06:10 AM
This has been badly managed by SF from start to finish. O'Neill is no leader and never will be, she is a poor replacement and i still don't understand why she was picked for the job. The fact that media outlets were willing to take this into a second week shows that it was not going to be swept under the carpet so BMcE has done the right thing this time.
You have to fear for SF going forward if this is a sign of how they intend to manage small mistakes like this, there is a real possibility of them becoming how the SDLP are now if they are not careful.

This was far more than a small mistake and well you know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 15, 2018, 05:25:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 15, 2018, 05:24:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 15, 2018, 11:06:10 AM
This has been badly managed by SF from start to finish. O'Neill is no leader and never will be, she is a poor replacement and i still don't understand why she was picked for the job. The fact that media outlets were willing to take this into a second week shows that it was not going to be swept under the carpet so BMcE has done the right thing this time.
You have to fear for SF going forward if this is a sign of how they intend to manage small mistakes like this, there is a real possibility of them becoming how the SDLP are now if they are not careful.

This was far more than a small mistake and well you know.
You'd know more about a pan loaf
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 15, 2018, 05:27:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 15, 2018, 05:25:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 15, 2018, 05:24:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 15, 2018, 11:06:10 AM
This has been badly managed by SF from start to finish. O'Neill is no leader and never will be, she is a poor replacement and i still don't understand why she was picked for the job. The fact that media outlets were willing to take this into a second week shows that it was not going to be swept under the carpet so BMcE has done the right thing this time.
You have to fear for SF going forward if this is a sign of how they intend to manage small mistakes like this, there is a real possibility of them becoming how the SDLP are now if they are not careful.

This was far more than a small mistake and well you know.
You'd know more about a pan loaf

It's a pity you think a comment like that in these circumstances makes you look anything but terrible. Learn your lesson on this one and just maybe your 'side' mightn't have to repeat the mistake in five years time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on January 15, 2018, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 04:47:40 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 15, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
The result from the GE in June:

Barry McElduff (SF)            22,060        50.7%
Thomas Buchanan (DUP)    11,718        26.9%
Daniel McCrossan (SDLP)     5,635         13.0%
Alicia Clarke (UUP)              2,253          5.2%   
Stephen Donnelly (All)        1,000           2.3%
Ciaran McClean (Green)         427           1.0%
Barry Brown (CISTA)             393           0.9%

Majority                            10,342        23.8%

Turnout                            43,675        68.2%

On these figures it would take something earth shattering for SF to lose this seat.  McElduff got more than 50% of the vote.

What would happen if the candidate was to be a victim of the Omagh bomb running on a respect/reconciliation ticket? 

The SF vote maxed out in 2017, while in WT many voters opposed to SF no longer vote as it is pointless on a split vote trying to have their preferred candidate elected, only core non-SF voters turn out. 

There is plenty of scope to increase the non-SF vote if there was a prospect of sending a strong message to the politicians that the sectarian nonsense has no future. Someone like Stanley McComb would be capable of drawing a considerable non-partisan vote and would highlight the case for the victims of the Omagh bomb in their campaign for a proper inquiry.

Like West Belfast, West Tyrone has gained nothing from its SF representation in government in Belfast and elected to Westminster.  It has lost the acute hospital to FST and the A5 will begin at the other end in Foyle instead of an extension to the A4 dual carriageway (another serious accident at Garvaghy on Saturday night) due to decisions by SF ministers seeking party votes in other constituencies.  No new employment to replace the downgrading of the lost civil service jobs and at the Education Authority.  Yet SF supporters continue to return representatives every time, strange.


Do you have any facts to back any of this up?

The loss of the hospital and the change in the building of the A5 are facts.  Decisions taken by SF ministers are facts.  No new employment brought to replace jobs taken away by DUP-SF government by borrowing money to make people redundant are facts.  EA downgrading of WELB employment in Omagh a decision taken by SF minister is a fact.  SF supporters voting in SF candidates every time despite gaining nothing in terms of jobs or roads to the West and losing health facilities is a fact. Highest votes achieved in an election by SF in WT in 2017 elections is a fact.  Speaking to others who live in the constituency who do not support SF they are despondent at the lack of progress in health and employment and many tel me they no longer see a point of voting, others say they vote to stop their vote being stolen, that a fact.

Stanley McComb or another similar person of integrity standing in election against SF as a victims representative would beat SF, that's my opinion.

I'll have some of whatever your smoking.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 05:37:20 PM
Why are so many people here rushing to compare this to what the DUP would do? Is that really the standard you aspire to?

McElduff did the right thing, now let's move on and for once not to to make political capital out of it ffs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 15, 2018, 05:39:24 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 15, 2018, 05:27:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 15, 2018, 05:25:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 15, 2018, 05:24:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 15, 2018, 11:06:10 AM
This has been badly managed by SF from start to finish. O'Neill is no leader and never will be, she is a poor replacement and i still don't understand why she was picked for the job. The fact that media outlets were willing to take this into a second week shows that it was not going to be swept under the carpet so BMcE has done the right thing this time.
You have to fear for SF going forward if this is a sign of how they intend to manage small mistakes like this, there is a real possibility of them becoming how the SDLP are now if they are not careful.

This was far more than a small mistake and well you know.
You'd know more about a pan loaf

It's a pity you think a comment like that in these circumstances makes you look anything but terrible. Learn your lesson on this one and just maybe your 'side' mightn't have to repeat the mistake in five years time.
It's a pity you think you know anything about Northern politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 15, 2018, 05:41:03 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 05:37:20 PM
Why are so many people here rushing to compare this to what the DUP would do? Is that really the standard you aspire to?

McElduff did the right thing, now let's move on and for once not to to make political capital out of it ffs.
Maybe because the DUP are probably the most obnoxious political party in Europe and causing offence seems to be a prerequisite to holding any senior position
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 05:42:23 PM
Take a few minutes to listen to Alan Black...........

https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/01/15/listen-to-alan-blacks-personal-account-of-the-kingsmill-massacre/ (https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/01/15/listen-to-alan-blacks-personal-account-of-the-kingsmill-massacre/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 05:46:14 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 15, 2018, 05:41:03 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 05:37:20 PM
Why are so many people here rushing to compare this to what the DUP would do? Is that really the standard you aspire to?

McElduff did the right thing, now let's move on and for once not to to make political capital out of it ffs.
Maybe because the DUP are probably the most obnoxious political party in Europe and causing offence seems to be a prerequisite to holding any senior position

So being better than the DUP is some sort of praise worthy achievement then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 15, 2018, 05:47:33 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 04:47:40 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 15, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
The result from the GE in June:

Barry McElduff (SF)            22,060        50.7%
Thomas Buchanan (DUP)    11,718        26.9%
Daniel McCrossan (SDLP)     5,635         13.0%
Alicia Clarke (UUP)              2,253          5.2%   
Stephen Donnelly (All)        1,000           2.3%
Ciaran McClean (Green)         427           1.0%
Barry Brown (CISTA)             393           0.9%

Majority                            10,342        23.8%

Turnout                            43,675        68.2%

On these figures it would take something earth shattering for SF to lose this seat.  McElduff got more than 50% of the vote.

What would happen if the candidate was to be a victim of the Omagh bomb running on a respect/reconciliation ticket? 

The SF vote maxed out in 2017, while in WT many voters opposed to SF no longer vote as it is pointless on a split vote trying to have their preferred candidate elected, only core non-SF voters turn out. 

There is plenty of scope to increase the non-SF vote if there was a prospect of sending a strong message to the politicians that the sectarian nonsense has no future. Someone like Stanley McComb would be capable of drawing a considerable non-partisan vote and would highlight the case for the victims of the Omagh bomb in their campaign for a proper inquiry.

Like West Belfast, West Tyrone has gained nothing from its SF representation in government in Belfast and elected to Westminster.  It has lost the acute hospital to FST and the A5 will begin at the other end in Foyle instead of an extension to the A4 dual carriageway (another serious accident at Garvaghy on Saturday night) due to decisions by SF ministers seeking party votes in other constituencies.  No new employment to replace the downgrading of the lost civil service jobs and at the Education Authority.  Yet SF supporters continue to return representatives every time, strange.


Do you have any facts to back any of this up?

The loss of the hospital and the change in the building of the A5 are facts.  Decisions taken by SF ministers are facts.  No new employment brought to replace jobs taken away by DUP-SF government by borrowing money to make people redundant are facts.  EA downgrading of WELB employment in Omagh a decision taken by SF minister is a fact.  SF supporters voting in SF candidates every time despite gaining nothing in terms of jobs or roads to the West and losing health facilities is a fact. Highest votes achieved in an election by SF in WT in 2017 elections is a fact.  Speaking to others who live in the constituency who do not support SF they are despondent at the lack of progress in health and employment and many tel me they no longer see a point of voting, others say they vote to stop their vote being stolen, that a fact.

Stanley McComb or another similar person of integrity standing in election against SF as a victims representative would beat SF, that's my opinion.

Is it any wonder the SDLP is in the state it's in when you hear predictions like this.

Paraphrasing your post, employment and infrastructure seem to be the two biggest issues pertaining to the voters in WT.

What qualifications and experience would your preferred candidate Stanley McComb bring to the table to resolve these issues?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 15, 2018, 05:47:33 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 04:47:40 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 15, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
The result from the GE in June:

Barry McElduff (SF)            22,060        50.7%
Thomas Buchanan (DUP)    11,718        26.9%
Daniel McCrossan (SDLP)     5,635         13.0%
Alicia Clarke (UUP)              2,253          5.2%   
Stephen Donnelly (All)        1,000           2.3%
Ciaran McClean (Green)         427           1.0%
Barry Brown (CISTA)             393           0.9%

Majority                            10,342        23.8%

Turnout                            43,675        68.2%

On these figures it would take something earth shattering for SF to lose this seat.  McElduff got more than 50% of the vote.

What would happen if the candidate was to be a victim of the Omagh bomb running on a respect/reconciliation ticket? 

The SF vote maxed out in 2017, while in WT many voters opposed to SF no longer vote as it is pointless on a split vote trying to have their preferred candidate elected, only core non-SF voters turn out. 

There is plenty of scope to increase the non-SF vote if there was a prospect of sending a strong message to the politicians that the sectarian nonsense has no future. Someone like Stanley McComb would be capable of drawing a considerable non-partisan vote and would highlight the case for the victims of the Omagh bomb in their campaign for a proper inquiry.

Like West Belfast, West Tyrone has gained nothing from its SF representation in government in Belfast and elected to Westminster.  It has lost the acute hospital to FST and the A5 will begin at the other end in Foyle instead of an extension to the A4 dual carriageway (another serious accident at Garvaghy on Saturday night) due to decisions by SF ministers seeking party votes in other constituencies.  No new employment to replace the downgrading of the lost civil service jobs and at the Education Authority.  Yet SF supporters continue to return representatives every time, strange.


Do you have any facts to back any of this up?

The loss of the hospital and the change in the building of the A5 are facts.  Decisions taken by SF ministers are facts.  No new employment brought to replace jobs taken away by DUP-SF government by borrowing money to make people redundant are facts.  EA downgrading of WELB employment in Omagh a decision taken by SF minister is a fact.  SF supporters voting in SF candidates every time despite gaining nothing in terms of jobs or roads to the West and losing health facilities is a fact. Highest votes achieved in an election by SF in WT in 2017 elections is a fact.  Speaking to others who live in the constituency who do not support SF they are despondent at the lack of progress in health and employment and many tel me they no longer see a point of voting, others say they vote to stop their vote being stolen, that a fact.

Stanley McComb or another similar person of integrity standing in election against SF as a victims representative would beat SF, that's my opinion.

Is it any wonder the SDLP is in the state it's in when you hear predictions like this.

Paraphrasing your post, employment and infrastructure seem to be the two biggest issues pertaining to the voters in WT.

What qualifications and experience would your preferred candidate Stanley McComb bring to the table to resolve these issues?

Absolutely none.  As I stated above my reason for proposing him or another of similar integrity is purely as a victims representative in response to the behaviour of all politicians in the last ten days. 

McElduff and other SF representatives have brought nothing to WT and only stood by while their colleagues took away the acute hospital and failed to hold on to the A5 to Omagh so another candidate who may not change the employment or health issues for WT will not matter as McElduff would have made no difference over the remainder of the current Westminster mandate in relation to bringing much needed infrastructure and employment to WT.

Your statement that 'employment and infrastructure seem to be the two biggest issues pertaining to the voters in WT' is incorrect as the majority of voters in WT given the results of the last two elections and SF voters would appear to prefer to keep the area down at the level created by years of unionist and direct rule by continuing to elect SF representatives who have been the main representatives for the last 20 years.

BTW I am not a member of the SDLP and my opinion that a victims representative as a candidate would bring out a vote to remove a future SF candidate has nothing to do with the SDLP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 15, 2018, 07:26:53 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
BTW I am not a member of the SDLP

Hilarious.

;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 15, 2018, 08:02:15 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 05:42:23 PM
Take a few minutes to listen to Alan Black...........

https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/01/15/listen-to-alan-blacks-personal-account-of-the-kingsmill-massacre/ (https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/01/15/listen-to-alan-blacks-personal-account-of-the-kingsmill-massacre/)
Thanks for the link. The story of Mrs Reavey was amazing 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 15, 2018, 08:05:57 PM
I think it should also be noted in fairness to mcelduff he confirmed kingsmill and said it was a sectarian murder. We are moving slowly in the right direction. Now to get the DUP moving in the right direction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 15, 2018, 08:11:41 PM
It will be interesting to see who the pan unionist front come up with

1) unionist victim or non-unionist victim
2) pro-brexit or remainer
3) male, or female or other

Whatever happens, you can expect the bitterness and sniping to continue, with plenty of reminders for the relations of the Kingsmill victims.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 15, 2018, 08:18:22 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 15, 2018, 08:11:41 PM
It will be interesting to see who the pan unionist front come up with

1) unionist victim or non-unionist victim
2) pro-brexit or remainer
3) male, or female or other

Whatever happens, you can expect the bitterness and sniping to continue, with plenty of reminders for the relations of the Kingsmill victims.

My money is on Jim Gavin to rally the anti SF vote

https://youtu.be/DDgdGseMs7Q
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seany on January 15, 2018, 08:18:27 PM
Thinking an MP can profoundly change the lives of people in a constituency, particularly in NI where you can't form the govt. and have ministers is nonsense.  In the 26 counties, perhaps, where gombeen politics means that the local TD, if he gets a ministry can bring all sorts to his area, but this doesn't work in the north.,  West Tyrone is like all the border constituencies, ravaged by partition, on the hind tit and last in the queue for any economic initiatives because of their republican sympathies. Sinn Fein will walk the by election. I wouldn't be surprised if the SDLP stand aside and allow a unionist to stand alone against a SF candidate. It would be the last treachery for them in Tyrone, following on from bringing in Fergal Logan to unseat Michelle Gildernew in FST and of course, parachuting Brid Rodgers into WT to try and beat Pat Doherty.  There she was, a Donegal woman, living in Armagh poncing around Omagh wearing a Tyrone jersey.  Classy.  Really classy.  Tyrone people can spot a spoofer a mile off.  She got hammered.  Hammered. She actually lost votes from Joe Byrne who got 15000 in 1997.  The latest chancer, McCrossan who is an absolute SF hater, lost them another 10k last year, coming in just over 5k.  It wouldn't even win them an Assembly seat in that constituency where the quota was 7300 votes last year.  Eugene McMenamin and Joe Byrne could always get votes here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on January 15, 2018, 08:44:19 PM
f**k me, and there you have it.

Sinn Fein clearly have no history of running higher profile candidates from outside an electoral area.

And having a voice in parliament is absolutely no advantage at all whatsover over not having a voice.

——

I'm guessing that you believed firmly in purgatory until that day the church decided it didn't exist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 15, 2018, 08:48:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 15, 2018, 07:26:53 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
BTW I am not a member of the SDLP

Hilarious.

;D

Yeah anyone that holds SF to account on their record or is in any way critical is a "stoop"  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 15, 2018, 08:54:30 PM
A year's money, for doing feck all? That's some record & it applies to all 90 of the wasters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 15, 2018, 09:00:33 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 15, 2018, 08:48:59 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 15, 2018, 07:26:53 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
BTW I am not a member of the SDLP

Hilarious.

;D

Yeah anyone that holds SF to account on their record or is in any way critical is a "stoop"  ::)
Don't be too hard on Bombast - he's still trying to come to terms with a SF man saying he did something wrong😲
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on January 15, 2018, 09:00:57 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 15, 2018, 08:18:27 PM
. It would be the last treachery for them in Tyrone, following on from bringing in Fergal Logan... parachuting Brid Rodgers into WT to try and beat Pat Doherty.  There she was, a Donegal woman,


Fergal Logan? Really? Not sure he realised he was on the ticket. Fergal McKinney maybe.

Also - where's Pat Doherty from? Surely not Donegal? Martin McGuinness was MP for Mid Ulster and him a Derry man living in Derry. Gerry Adams is a TD in Louth.   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: oakleafgael on January 15, 2018, 09:10:28 PM
Quote from: Rois on January 15, 2018, 09:00:57 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 15, 2018, 08:18:27 PM
. It would be the last treachery for them in Tyrone, following on from bringing in Fergal Logan... parachuting Brid Rodgers into WT to try and beat Pat Doherty.  There she was, a Donegal woman,


Fergal Logan? Really? Not sure he realised he was on the ticket. Fergal McKinney maybe.

Also - where's Pat Doherty from? Surely not Donegal? Martin McGuinness was MP for Mid Ulster and him a Derry man living in Derry. Gerry Adams is a TD in Louth.

Rois

The Mid Ulster ward would be close to 50% in County Derry and takes in the McGuiness homestead.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 15, 2018, 09:13:29 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 15, 2018, 08:18:27 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the SDLP stand aside and allow a unionist to stand alone against a SF candidate. It would be the last treachery for them in Tyrone, following on from bringing in Fergal Logan to unseat Michelle Gildernew in FST and of course, parachuting Brid Rodgers into WT to try and beat Pat Doherty.  There she was, a Donegal woman, living in Armagh poncing around Omagh wearing a Tyrone jersey.  Classy.  Really classy.  Tyrone people can spot a spoofer a mile off.  She got hammered.  Hammered. She actually lost votes from Joe Byrne who got 15000 in 1997.  The latest chancer, McCrossan who is an absolute SF hater, lost them another 10k last year, coming in just over 5k.  It wouldn't even win them an Assembly seat in that constituency where the quota was 7300 votes last year.  Eugene McMenamin and Joe Byrne could always get votes here
Part of being a Shinner cult type appears to be to sneer about anything and everything the SDLP do it would seem, and to look down on them as some kind of inferior beings. It's not a football team you are following.

Quotefollowing on from bringing in Fergal Logan to unseat Michelle Gildernew in FST and of course, parachuting Brid Rodgers into WT to try and beat Pat Doherty.  There she was, a Donegal woman, living in Armagh poncing around Omagh wearing a Tyrone jersey.
Yes Rodgers was from Donegal. As was Pat Doherty. And I don't think Mid Ulster's boundaries expanded to the Bogside but that didn't stop McGuinness running there.

QuoteThe latest chancer, McCrossan who is an absolute SF hater, lost them another 10k last year, coming in just over 5k.  It wouldn't even win them an Assembly seat in that constituency where the quota was 7300 votes last year.  Eugene McMenamin and Joe Byrne could always get votes here
But it's ok to be a SDLP hater of course  ::)
Incidentally McCrossan didn't lose them 10k votes, they were lost long ago. The SDLP vote hasn't exceeded 6500 since 2001. Who got that highest vote since then? McCrossan. His vote in the Assembly last March was 3k higher than what Joe Byrne got in 2011.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on January 15, 2018, 09:24:32 PM
Fair play to Barry there, he correctly called out Kingsmill as the vicious act it was. I actually admire him after that for saying what needed to be said.

It even disappoints me a bit to know that more insidious acts of fraud, embezzlement and corruption have not been punished as they should have been by dismissal. Arlene, Sammy, Ian Og, punt, carol ni chulain and many more have been lining their pockets at the expense of us taxpayers and the f**king leeches continue to get away with it. Even when they were exposed there was an unabashed air of defiance as if this was the way of the world and we had to suck it up.

It's f**king typical of this shithole that blatant embezzlement goes unpunished whilst (to my eye) poorly-timed attempts at humour seems the sole sackable offence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 15, 2018, 09:30:13 PM
You can add Ruane, Attwood, Newton in there too. Good old John Laird still merrily milking his Lords' expenses. The whole lot of them have the snouts deep in the trough.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on January 15, 2018, 09:34:54 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on January 15, 2018, 09:10:28 PM


Rois

The Mid Ulster ward would be close to 50% in County Derry and takes in the McGuiness homestead.
Yes I know where mid-Ulster constituency extends to but you'll never convince me McGuinness identified himself as anything other than a Derry city man. I'm not giving off about it, just challenging Seany on the examples he used to attack the SDLP.

I have found Barry McElduff to be a very nice man with a real passion for Tyrone GAA, and I think he was unfortunate but has done the right thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 15, 2018, 09:53:04 PM
the unionist played a blinder by taking to Mr Black to RTE to pour his heart out. SF & Barry knew that once this happened that he had no other choice but to step down as it would do more harm in the south than up here. Isn't it a turn of events that the unionists are now running more to the southern media than there very own BBC. Mr Black has been very well staged managed by whoever is pulling the strings for unionism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on January 15, 2018, 10:18:10 PM
Are people that stupid that they are swayed into voting by choreography like this? Will Barry Mc Elduff's resignation win Sinn Fein votes in Dublin 4?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on January 15, 2018, 11:37:42 PM
https://thebrokenelbow.com/2018/01/15/kingsmills-killings-look-what-i-found-in-the-archives/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 15, 2018, 11:46:23 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 15, 2018, 11:37:42 PM
https://thebrokenelbow.com/2018/01/15/kingsmills-killings-look-what-i-found-in-the-archives/

Paisley was a vile despicable man. I hope there is a hell after death as that's where he would end up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Wow. settle pettel  You on traffic duty again?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Wow. settle pettel  You on traffic duty again?

Shameful response.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on January 16, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Wow. settle pettel  You on traffic duty again?

Shameful response.

Go clean a boat you hun dog.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on January 16, 2018, 12:16:24 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 15, 2018, 09:53:04 PM
the unionist played a blinder by taking to Mr Black to RTE to pour his heart out. SF & Barry knew that once this happened that he had no other choice but to step down as it would do more harm in the south than up here. Isn't it a turn of events that the unionists are now running more to the southern media than there very own BBC. Mr Black has been very well staged managed by whoever is pulling the strings for unionism.

Very true, this. Unionists like Donaldson and Paisley have often opted to use RTE media whenever it suits them to get their message across. No coincidence that Alan Black found his way onto RTE to try and damage SF in the southern media. Bizzarely I feel that the unionists would have preferred if McElduff had remained in his post so that they could continue to use this as a stick to beat SF with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 12:24:27 AM
Barry has pulled the indignant ground from under them alright.
Good to see them engaging in an All Ireland way running to RTÉ.
The more they focus on an Irish "dimension" the better.
I suspect British media outlets have little interest in them anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:54:28 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 16, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Wow. settle pettel  You on traffic duty again?

Shameful response.

Go clean a boat you hun dog.

The fact you can be so unrepentant after what happened is incredible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on January 16, 2018, 01:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:54:28 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 16, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Wow. settle pettel  You on traffic duty again?

Shameful response.

Go clean a boat you hun dog.

The fact you can be so unrepentant after what happened is incredible.

The fact you feel you have a right to comnent is incredible to me. I can honestly say hand on heart that i hate you for your shameful degradation of the nationalist community up here. I love live and work with unionist people protestant people. I refuse to be lectured by you. Sanctimonious tr**p.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 01:36:56 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 16, 2018, 01:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:54:28 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 16, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Wow. settle pettel  You on traffic duty again?

Shameful response.

Go clean a boat you hun dog.

The fact you can be so unrepentant after what happened is incredible.

The fact you feel you have a right to comnent is incredible to me. I can honestly say hand on heart that i hate you for your shameful degradation of the nationalist community up here. I love live and work with unionist people protestant people. I refuse to be lectured by you. Sanctimonious tr**p.

What exactly has been said that's degrading to the nationalist community? If you think what McElduff didn't do something horrendously insensitive and hurtful you're wrong. It's a sad fact of life that in the north you either have to swallow the party line hook, line and sinker or you're subject to the complete and utter childish, intolerant nonsense you've just put voice to here. Guess what, the rest of us couldn't care less for whatever shell game the DUP or SF is playing, or supporting their selfish ends.

Why bother with a message board if all you're looking for is an echo chamber of nodding heads?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on January 16, 2018, 02:11:51 AM
Pretty much everything you say is degrading. You hide away down in your safe zone pontificating. Our local club here has a good few young protestant lads playing. You sit down in roscommon with this deluded notion of lads from the north killing one another. National identity is confused for sectarianism. f**k sake people from louth Moneghan Donegal and Cavan have more in comman with us than f**king roscomman
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Carmen Stateside on January 16, 2018, 03:37:17 AM
Well said Charlie. Syfillis is clueless when it comes to most things, especially northern politics.  He has single handedly destroyed this discussion board with his bullshit on every thread going.  I wonder does he really think people give an actual f**k what he says?
A Moron!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 03:49:00 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 16, 2018, 03:37:17 AM
Well said Charlie. Syfillis is clueless when it comes to most things, especially northern politics.  He has single handedly destroyed this discussion board with his bullshit on every thread going.  I wonder does he really think people give an actual f**k what he says?
A Moron!

I hope you didn't miss the irony that you just proved you care very, very dearly.

Also I'd like to remind charlie that nationalism != SF. They are just one, rather blood-soaked, part of it and don't own what the boundaries of acceptable nationalist or republican thought is. Incidents like this and moreover SF's lame reactions to them highlight that fact.

I'm not afraid of childish, foul-mouthed attempts to shout down those who don't agree with the dogma that seems to start and end with "what about.." when it comes to every wrong-doing by SF/IRA, and nor is anyone else in the south for that matter. The rules are different in the rest of Ireland and you'll never get any closer to your goals of nationalism until you realise that and stop shouting. You see everyone that isn't a blind adherent as your enemy. What sort of future will be built with that attitude?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 04:44:36 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Wow. settle pettel  You on traffic duty again?

The republicanism is defined by voting shinner and supporting Celtic mentality right here. Embarrassingly pathetic.

The fact that so many can't see people wanting to hold idiots like McElduff to account for being idiots to account as anything other than "bashing" or "hatred" is laughable, yet not one bit surprising for some of the luminaries and intellectual colossi we have on this board. Everybody's a "stoop" apparently. Morons throwing around what they think are insults but are clearly too f**king stupid to see the irony given some of the things the shinners have stooped to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 05:22:15 AM
In the long term this will benefit SF. They have to deal with the past to move forward.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: T Fearon on January 16, 2018, 07:53:00 AM
SF now intent on focusing on its Southern electorate at the expense of the North.Remember Gerry Adams at the time of the decommissioning row,saying Republicans would never do anything demanded by Unionists?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 08:40:09 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on January 15, 2018, 09:13:29 PM
Quote from: Seany on January 15, 2018, 08:18:27 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the SDLP stand aside and allow a unionist to stand alone against a SF candidate. It would be the last treachery for them in Tyrone, following on from bringing in Fergal Logan to unseat Michelle Gildernew in FST and of course, parachuting Brid Rodgers into WT to try and beat Pat Doherty.  There she was, a Donegal woman, living in Armagh poncing around Omagh wearing a Tyrone jersey.  Classy.  Really classy.  Tyrone people can spot a spoofer a mile off.  She got hammered.  Hammered. She actually lost votes from Joe Byrne who got 15000 in 1997.  The latest chancer, McCrossan who is an absolute SF hater, lost them another 10k last year, coming in just over 5k.  It wouldn't even win them an Assembly seat in that constituency where the quota was 7300 votes last year.  Eugene McMenamin and Joe Byrne could always get votes here
Part of being a Shinner cult type appears to be to sneer about anything and everything the SDLP do it would seem, and to look down on them as some kind of inferior beings. It's not a football team you are following.

Quotefollowing on from bringing in Fergal Logan to unseat Michelle Gildernew in FST and of course, parachuting Brid Rodgers into WT to try and beat Pat Doherty.  There she was, a Donegal woman, living in Armagh poncing around Omagh wearing a Tyrone jersey.
Yes Rodgers was from Donegal. As was Pat Doherty. And I don't think Mid Ulster's boundaries expanded to the Bogside but that didn't stop McGuinness running there.

QuoteThe latest chancer, McCrossan who is an absolute SF hater, lost them another 10k last year, coming in just over 5k.  It wouldn't even win them an Assembly seat in that constituency where the quota was 7300 votes last year.  Eugene McMenamin and Joe Byrne could always get votes here
But it's ok to be a SDLP hater of course  ::)
Incidentally McCrossan didn't lose them 10k votes, they were lost long ago. The SDLP vote hasn't exceeded 6500 since 2001. Who got that highest vote since then? McCrossan. His vote in the Assembly last March was 3k higher than what Joe Byrne got in 2011.

Rich coming from a little FGbot /FGbot like yourself. You ever going to address the shameful past of your own establishment parties or is that too close to the bone?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 08:46:28 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 16, 2018, 01:20:21 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:54:28 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 16, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Wow. settle pettel  You on traffic duty again?

Shameful response.

Go clean a boat you hun dog.

The fact you can be so unrepentant after what happened is incredible.

The fact you feel you have a right to comnent is incredible to me. I can honestly say hand on heart that i hate you for your shameful degradation of the nationalist community up here. I love live and work with unionist people protestant people. I refuse to be lectured by you. Sanctimonious tr**p.

Listen the guy you are engaging with would kill his granny to get ahead in life. You won't find him condemning the wrongs and corruption of his state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 08:48:25 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 03:49:00 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 16, 2018, 03:37:17 AM
Well said Charlie. Syfillis is clueless when it comes to most things, especially northern politics.  He has single handedly destroyed this discussion board with his bullshit on every thread going.  I wonder does he really think people give an actual f**k what he says?
A Moron!

I hope you didn't miss the irony that you just proved you care very, very dearly.

Also I'd like to remind charlie that nationalism != SF. They are just one, rather blood-soaked, part of it and don't own what the boundaries of acceptable nationalist or republican thought is. Incidents like this and moreover SF's lame reactions to them highlight that fact.

I'm not afraid of childish, foul-mouthed attempts to shout down those who don't agree with the dogma that seems to start and end with "what about.." when it comes to every wrong-doing by SF/IRA, and nor is anyone else in the south for that matter. The rules are different in the rest of Ireland and you'll never get any closer to your goals of nationalism until you realise that and stop shouting. You see everyone that isn't a blind adherent as your enemy. What sort of future will be built with that attitude?

FG/IRA and FF/IRA are two other blood soaked parts of Irish history but don't let facts get in the way of justifying hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:11:40 AM
I was just going to say that the Acute Hospital is situated in FST, a constituency represented by an SF MP. But I fear the point may be lost!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 16, 2018, 09:15:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 15, 2018, 05:47:33 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 04:47:40 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 15, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 15, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 15, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
The result from the GE in June:

Barry McElduff (SF)            22,060        50.7%
Thomas Buchanan (DUP)    11,718        26.9%
Daniel McCrossan (SDLP)     5,635         13.0%
Alicia Clarke (UUP)              2,253          5.2%   
Stephen Donnelly (All)        1,000           2.3%
Ciaran McClean (Green)         427           1.0%
Barry Brown (CISTA)             393           0.9%

Majority                            10,342        23.8%

Turnout                            43,675        68.2%

On these figures it would take something earth shattering for SF to lose this seat.  McElduff got more than 50% of the vote.

What would happen if the candidate was to be a victim of the Omagh bomb running on a respect/reconciliation ticket? 

The SF vote maxed out in 2017, while in WT many voters opposed to SF no longer vote as it is pointless on a split vote trying to have their preferred candidate elected, only core non-SF voters turn out. 

There is plenty of scope to increase the non-SF vote if there was a prospect of sending a strong message to the politicians that the sectarian nonsense has no future. Someone like Stanley McComb would be capable of drawing a considerable non-partisan vote and would highlight the case for the victims of the Omagh bomb in their campaign for a proper inquiry.

Like West Belfast, West Tyrone has gained nothing from its SF representation in government in Belfast and elected to Westminster.  It has lost the acute hospital to FST and the A5 will begin at the other end in Foyle instead of an extension to the A4 dual carriageway (another serious accident at Garvaghy on Saturday night) due to decisions by SF ministers seeking party votes in other constituencies.  No new employment to replace the downgrading of the lost civil service jobs and at the Education Authority.  Yet SF supporters continue to return representatives every time, strange.


Do you have any facts to back any of this up?

The loss of the hospital and the change in the building of the A5 are facts.  Decisions taken by SF ministers are facts.  No new employment brought to replace jobs taken away by DUP-SF government by borrowing money to make people redundant are facts.  EA downgrading of WELB employment in Omagh a decision taken by SF minister is a fact.  SF supporters voting in SF candidates every time despite gaining nothing in terms of jobs or roads to the West and losing health facilities is a fact. Highest votes achieved in an election by SF in WT in 2017 elections is a fact.  Speaking to others who live in the constituency who do not support SF they are despondent at the lack of progress in health and employment and many tel me they no longer see a point of voting, others say they vote to stop their vote being stolen, that a fact.

Stanley McComb or another similar person of integrity standing in election against SF as a victims representative would beat SF, that's my opinion.

Is it any wonder the SDLP is in the state it's in when you hear predictions like this.

Paraphrasing your post, employment and infrastructure seem to be the two biggest issues pertaining to the voters in WT.

What qualifications and experience would your preferred candidate Stanley McComb bring to the table to resolve these issues?

Absolutely none.  As I stated above my reason for proposing him or another of similar integrity is purely as a victims representative in response to the behaviour of all politicians in the last ten days. 

McElduff and other SF representatives have brought nothing to WT and only stood by while their colleagues took away the acute hospital and failed to hold on to the A5 to Omagh so another candidate who may not change the employment or health issues for WT will not matter as McElduff would have made no difference over the remainder of the current Westminster mandate in relation to bringing much needed infrastructure and employment to WT.

Your statement that 'employment and infrastructure seem to be the two biggest issues pertaining to the voters in WT' is incorrect as the majority of voters in WT given the results of the last two elections and SF voters would appear to prefer to keep the area down at the level created by years of unionist and direct rule by continuing to elect SF representatives who have been the main representatives for the last 20 years.

BTW I am not a member of the SDLP and my opinion that a victims representative as a candidate would bring out a vote to remove a future SF candidate has nothing to do with the SDLP.

Right, so lets get this clear.  Your produce a paragraph-long diatribe about the failings of McElduff with regard to employment and infrastructure in WT and how voters are becoming disillusioned with this.  You then propose a candidate who has absolutely NO experience in dealing with issues of this nature.  When challenged on this, you say that, in fact, these issues are not that important to the voters of WT???

Do you actually ever read what you post?

This whole 'victims' candidate is a red herring, pushed by unionists as they (and all other political parties) know that the ONLY way they are going to remove SF from the WT seat is for the SF candidate to stand aside.  Most of those saying otherwise are being disingenuous and using supposed 'care' for victims to push an 'anybody but SF' political agenda.  This includes you Owen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Feckitt on January 16, 2018, 09:18:33 AM
Speculation that SF could run Peter Canavan even though his home area would be Fermanagh & South Tyrone.  Peter obviously has the biggest profile of any person in the whole county and is much loved and respected throughout West Tyrone.

This could be a possibility as it would follow in the footsteps of the 'civic nationalist' letter to the Taoiseach before Christmas,

Also tomorrow night Joe Brolly (who believe it or not is a complete unknown amongst large swathes of the Northern population) will be on UTV tomorrow night as a civic nationalist to talk about how middle class catholics now unanimously reject Northern Ireland.

Interesting times!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 09:38:12 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 03:49:00 AM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 16, 2018, 03:37:17 AM
Well said Charlie. Syfillis is clueless when it comes to most things, especially northern politics.  He has single handedly destroyed this discussion board with his bullshit on every thread going.  I wonder does he really think people give an actual f**k what he says?
A Moron!

I hope you didn't miss the irony that you just proved you care very, very dearly.

Also I'd like to remind charlie that nationalism != SF. They are just one, rather blood-soaked, part of it and don't own what the boundaries of acceptable nationalist or republican thought is. Incidents like this and moreover SF's lame reactions to them highlight that fact.

I'm not afraid of childish, foul-mouthed attempts to shout down those who don't agree with the dogma that seems to start and end with "what about.." when it comes to every wrong-doing by SF/IRA, and nor is anyone else in the south for that matter. The rules are different in the rest of Ireland and you'll never get any closer to your goals of nationalism until you realise that and stop shouting. You see everyone that isn't a blind adherent as your enemy. What sort of future will be built with that attitude?

SF/IRA? Where did you get that term from?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 09:39:14 AM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 04:44:36 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 15, 2018, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 15, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
Daithi McKay f..ked up gone.
Barry f..ked up gone. But all you hear is republican bashing from the usual suspects, the entire SDLP voting population must post on here. What is with all the hatred?

Hatred?! Catch yourself on you complete f**king flake.

Wow. settle pettel  You on traffic duty again?

The republicanism is defined by voting shinner and supporting Celtic mentality right here. Embarrassingly pathetic.

The fact that so many can't see people wanting to hold idiots like McElduff to account for being idiots to account as anything other than "bashing" or "hatred" is laughable, yet not one bit surprising for some of the luminaries and intellectual colossi we have on this board. Everybody's a "stoop" apparently. Morons throwing around what they think are insults but are clearly too f**king stupid to see the irony given some of the things the shinners have stooped to.

can we leave supporting Celtic out of this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 09:41:37 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on January 16, 2018, 09:18:33 AM
Speculation that SF could run Peter Canavan even though his home area would be Fermanagh & South Tyrone.  Peter obviously has the biggest profile of any person in the whole county and is much loved and respected throughout West Tyrone.

This could be a possibility as it would follow in the footsteps of the 'civic nationalist' letter to the Taoiseach before Christmas,

Also tomorrow night Joe Brolly (who believe it or not is a complete unknown amongst large swathes of the Northern population) will be on UTV tomorrow night as a civic nationalist to talk about how middle class catholics now unanimously reject Northern Ireland.

Interesting times!

Is Peter a member of SF? I seen him in the paper the other day saying the southern govt should release the findings on the Aiden McAnespie investigation
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 16, 2018, 09:49:34 AM
A few observations on this saga.
Barry McElduff from what I read was a good hard working politician, Unionists acknowledge privately that he did not intend hurt. These same Unionists then ensured that hurt was felt and compounded by their own actions.
McElduff has done the right thing in resigning and should have shown more awareness in the props he was using. That said I think his comedic videos are unbecoming a man in his position.
SF need to get smart and grasp the nettle of what their representatives feel is ok to tweet and retweet, they need to show sensitivity around some of the commemorations etc...these might appeal to the grassroots but make middle-class voters uneasy, and these are the vote they need to attract.
As nationalists we should not hold our breaths waiting on Unionists to follow the same high standards set by SF in the McElduff and McKay cases.
Finally the pathetic quasi unionist bandwaggon jumping by Colm Eastwood and Daniel McCrossan is no replacement for a coherent political strategy and the SDLP is a far cry from the Party led by Hume.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:53:02 AM
If there's a joint "victim" candidate then SF should just run John Finucane in WT.  Sure isn't he a victim too??  Victim vs. Victim, sure that would be a dignified, sombre campaign?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 16, 2018, 09:58:31 AM
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:53:02 AM
If there's a joint "victim" candidate then SF should just run John Finucane in WT.  Sure isn't he a victim too??  Victim vs. Victim, sure that would be a dignified, sombre campaign?
And ultimately depressing, Unionists need to call time on using victims to score points.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 10:05:28 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 16, 2018, 07:53:00 AM
SF now intent on focusing on its Southern electorate at the expense of the Nort
Correct Tony.
They were getting a savaging on the Marian Dublin 4 talk show Sunday on RTÉ . The poor Shinner TD sounded embarrassed about it all. Then the tweets and messages were coming in "I voted Sinn  Fein  but not any more. ...."
They know the Northern tribal voting tradition will see them alright there and with "our" tribes population rising.....

Disgusting abuse by "Charlie tully" and of course Bombast wades in now that he's over the shock of a SF man saying he got something wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Walter Cronc on January 16, 2018, 10:12:20 AM
As someone who has voted SF since I turned 18, for me McElduff had to go. What he done was wrong and Nationalist/Republican politicians shouldn't stoop to the level of some Unionists like Gregory Campbell by mocking the dead.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 16, 2018, 10:19:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 10:05:28 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 16, 2018, 07:53:00 AM
SF now intent on focusing on its Southern electorate at the expense of the Nort
Correct Tony.
They were getting a savaging on the Marian Dublin 4 talk show Sunday on RTÉ . The poor Shinner TD sounded embarrassed about it all. Then the tweets and messages were coming in "I voted Sinn  Fein  but not any more. ...."
They know the Northern tribal voting tradition will see them alright there and with "our" tribes population rising.....

Disgusting abuse by "Charlie tully" and of course Bombast wades in now that he's over the shock of a SF man saying he got something wrong.
Bomber does not represent Northern Nationalists or their thinking any more than your anti SF?Nationalist trolling represents Southern Nationalists. Two sides one coin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.
You can stand up for yourself in.different ways  if SF don't deliver they will have to get off the pot
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.

And the pontificators are notable in the lack of sincerity and opportunism in this regard. As usual SF are held to higher standards than any other political party on this island. Why aren't you notable in tackling your own state's ills?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on January 16, 2018, 02:08:25 PM
Surely God be not giving up his sky duties irish independent gig the paper that extols FG and his various other gigs for the average industrial wage.If he is fair play to him for his patriotism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

Some identity that lad has alright 😀😁😂
And don't forget his hallucinations when he saw the "Roscommon Brownshirts"😆
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.

And the pontificators are notable in the lack of sincerity and opportunism in this regard. As usual SF are held to higher standards than any other political party on this island. Why aren't you notable in tackling your own state's ills?
I have analysed them on the radio as Gaeilge.
What have you done?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.

And the pontificators are notable in the lack of sincerity and opportunism in this regard. As usual SF are held to higher standards than any other political party on this island. Why aren't you notable in tackling your own state's ills?
I have analysed them on the radio as Gaeilge.
What have you done?

You have done no such thing. I have given balanced views. You seem to go missing when the Free State establishment parties are presiding over hushed scandal after buried scandal.

The media's unwillingness to tackle Michael Noonan on the recent Grace scandal a prime example.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 03:16:08 PM
Denial doesn't count as discussion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.

And the pontificators are notable in the lack of sincerity and opportunism in this regard. As usual SF are held to higher standards than any other political party on this island. Why aren't you notable in tackling your own state's ills?
I have analysed them on the radio as Gaeilge.
What have you done?

You have done no such thing. I have given balanced views. You seem to go missing when the Free State establishment parties are presiding over hushed scandal after buried scandal.

The media's unwillingness to tackle Michael Noonan on the recent Grace scandal a prime example.
I have been documenting the lamentable state of the Southern institutions since 2009.
What about you ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:34:25 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 03:16:08 PM
Denial doesn't count as discussion.

Neither does ignorance and that's your only input.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.

And the pontificators are notable in the lack of sincerity and opportunism in this regard. As usual SF are held to higher standards than any other political party on this island. Why aren't you notable in tackling your own state's ills?
I have analysed them on the radio as Gaeilge.
What have you done?

You have done no such thing. I have given balanced views. You seem to go missing when the Free State establishment parties are presiding over hushed scandal after buried scandal.

The media's unwillingness to tackle Michael Noonan on the recent Grace scandal a prime example.
I have been documenting the lamentable state of the Southern institutions since 2009.
What about you ?

Doesn't really seem to tally with actuality. I give a balanced and objective view on matters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2018, 03:36:46 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.

And the pontificators are notable in the lack of sincerity and opportunism in this regard. As usual SF are held to higher standards than any other political party on this island. Why aren't you notable in tackling your own state's ills?
I have analysed them on the radio as Gaeilge.
What have you done?

You have done no such thing. I have given balanced views. You seem to go missing when the Free State establishment parties are presiding over hushed scandal after buried scandal.

The media's unwillingness to tackle Michael Noonan on the recent Grace scandal a prime example.

To be fair, Seafoid at least posts on the issues. Might struggle to follow the point of his posts in some cases but he doesn't go into hiding when discussions turn closer to home unlike some posters. Credit where it's due.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 03:40:17 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.

And the pontificators are notable in the lack of sincerity and opportunism in this regard. As usual SF are held to higher standards than any other political party on this island. Why aren't you notable in tackling your own state's ills?
I have analysed them on the radio as Gaeilge.
What have you done?

You have done no such thing. I have given balanced views. You seem to go missing when the Free State establishment parties are presiding over hushed scandal after buried scandal.

The media's unwillingness to tackle Michael Noonan on the recent Grace scandal a prime example.
I have been documenting the lamentable state of the Southern institutions since 2009.
What about you ?

Doesn't really seem to tally with actuality. I give a balanced and objective view on matters.
Say something nice about Fine Gael then
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:46:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 03:40:17 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.

And the pontificators are notable in the lack of sincerity and opportunism in this regard. As usual SF are held to higher standards than any other political party on this island. Why aren't you notable in tackling your own state's ills?
I have analysed them on the radio as Gaeilge.
What have you done?

You have done no such thing. I have given balanced views. You seem to go missing when the Free State establishment parties are presiding over hushed scandal after buried scandal.

The media's unwillingness to tackle Michael Noonan on the recent Grace scandal a prime example.
I have been documenting the lamentable state of the Southern institutions since 2009.
What about you ?

Doesn't really seem to tally with actuality. I give a balanced and objective view on matters.
Say something nice about Fine Gael then

There's nothing nice to say about them. Their attitude to Northern nationalists would shame all the devils on hell.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on January 16, 2018, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 15, 2018, 04:38:34 PM
Anyone who thinks this seat is there for the taking is seriously delusional. Both West Tyrone and Mid-Ulster are the safest seats for SF at the minute. Quit clutching at straws Owen. If there is going to be a victims campaigner stand, then be under no illusions SF will put in a big name,  personally would like to see Peter the Great stand.
genuine question why?
is peter an active on the ground campaigner/worker
if he is fair play
no agenda on this but feel we need real politicians because there is a shit storm coming with Brexit
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 03:59:57 PM
How many Northern Nationalists have Fine Gael murdered and how many have they kneecapped,  "disappeared" exiled beaten with baseball bats or the like.
How does their record in that regard compare to Provo IRA/SF?
Which side would shame more of the devils "on Hell"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 04:14:53 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:46:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 03:40:17 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 16, 2018, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I represent myself and an aversion for having to be shamed for standing up for yourself when nobody else will.

I didn't realise ranting about fine Gael and calling your fellow countrymen free staters was standing up for your identity. Go you.

No that's unmasking those who stand on the pedestal pontificating and moralising. They have a load of murky business they need to deal with. It's been given lip service in the media this week but FG and the Free State Government continue to let down the McAnespie family and their quest for justice. They have no problem trumpeting the likes of Austin Stack however and balance and transparency is very important.
The pontificators read the political tealeaves better than you did. McElduff's position was untenable.

And the pontificators are notable in the lack of sincerity and opportunism in this regard. As usual SF are held to higher standards than any other political party on this island. Why aren't you notable in tackling your own state's ills?
I have analysed them on the radio as Gaeilge.
What have you done?

You have done no such thing. I have given balanced views. You seem to go missing when the Free State establishment parties are presiding over hushed scandal after buried scandal.

The media's unwillingness to tackle Michael Noonan on the recent Grace scandal a prime example.
I have been documenting the lamentable state of the Southern institutions since 2009.
What about you ?

Doesn't really seem to tally with actuality. I give a balanced and objective view on matters.
Say something nice about Fine Gael then

There's nothing nice to say about them. Their attitude to Northern nationalists would shame all the devils on hell.
Have balanced and objective been taken away for interrogation?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 16, 2018, 04:19:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 03:59:57 PM
How many Northern Nationalists have Fine Gael murdered and how many have they kneecapped,  "disappeared" exiled beaten with baseball bats or the like.
How does their record in that regard compare to Provo IRA/SF?
Which side would shame more of the devils "on Hell"?
Rossfan, in fairness SF have not done any of this either you are straying into TUV policy here. There has also been a ceasefire for the last 20 years and there has to come a time when SF's past connections to the then active IRA becomes irrelevant. Especially now as many of the younger representatives joined post cease fire. Reprehensible as some of Bombers posts are he reacts at times to comments from people like yourself who have no idea of what life was like for Northern Nationalists of my generation (55+) growing up in a state reflected and to some extent still does only reflect British Protestant culture and identity. FG and FF need to stop this as well and to challenge SF on actual policy. With the exception of the SDLP and Alliance every other major political party on this island has been born out of violence or the threat of violence, so people in glass houses etc...As for Bomber everytime he refers to the freestate or freestaters his argument is lost as all anyone sees is the insult, your IRA/SF is exactly the same type of trolling.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:22:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 16, 2018, 04:19:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 03:59:57 PM
How many Northern Nationalists have Fine Gael murdered and how many have they kneecapped,  "disappeared" exiled beaten with baseball bats or the like.
How does their record in that regard compare to Provo IRA/SF?
Which side would shame more of the devils "on Hell"?
Rossfan, in fairness SF have not done any of this either you are straying into TUV policy here. There has also been a ceasefire for the last 20 years and there has to come a time when SF's past connections to the then active IRA becomes irrelevant. Especially now as many of the younger representatives joined post cease fire. Reprehensible as some of Bombers posts are he reacts at times to comments from people like yourself who have no idea of what life was like for Northern Nationalists of my generation (55+) growing up in a state reflected and to some extent still does only reflect British Protestant culture and identity. FG and FF need to stop this as well and to challenge SF on actual policy. With the exception of the SDLP and Alliance every other major political party on this island has been born out of violence or the threat of violence, so people in glass houses etc...As for Bomber everytime he refers to the freestate or freestaters his argument is lost as all anyone sees is the insult, your IRA/SF is exactly the same type of trolling.

good post, put a lot better than I could have done
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:28:10 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 16, 2018, 04:19:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 03:59:57 PM
How many Northern Nationalists have Fine Gael murdered and how many have they kneecapped,  "disappeared" exiled beaten with baseball bats or the like.
How does their record in that regard compare to Provo IRA/SF?
Which side would shame more of the devils "on Hell"?
Rossfan, in fairness SF have not done any of this either you are straying into TUV policy here. There has also been a ceasefire for the last 20 years and there has to come a time when SF's past connections to the then active IRA becomes irrelevant. Especially now as many of the younger representatives joined post cease fire. Reprehensible as some of Bombers posts are he reacts at times to comments from people like yourself who have no idea of what life was like for Northern Nationalists of my generation (55+) growing up in a state reflected and to some extent still does only reflect British Protestant culture and identity. FG and FF need to stop this as well and to challenge SF on actual policy. With the exception of the SDLP and Alliance every other major political party on this island has been born out of violence or the threat of violence, so people in glass houses etc...As for Bomber everytime he refers to the freestate or freestaters his argument is lost as all anyone sees is the insult, your IRA/SF is exactly the same type of trolling.

Gerry might want to admit his personal connections if he wants that to happen. Do you not see why people can't take SF seriously about moving on when their own leader can't admit to what is common knowledge, let alone move past it?
Mary Lou and her northern puppet's response to McElduff shows they're still operating from the same old playbook.

If I'm being generous I'd say Mary Lou is the sort of transitional leader who is unlikely to do anything to change SF's toxic reputation in Irish society but she may be a necessary leader given how the party has set itself up. Doherty seems a much more able leader and I would hope he will have the balls to tackle the past when Mary Lou is eventually ousted, for poor election results in all likelihood.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 03:59:57 PM
How many Northern Nationalists have Fine Gael murdered and how many have they kneecapped,  "disappeared" exiled beaten with baseball bats or the like.
How does their record in that regard compare to Provo IRA/SF?
Which side would shame more of the devils "on Hell"?

How many have SF?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 04:47:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:28:10 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 16, 2018, 04:19:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 03:59:57 PM
How many Northern Nationalists have Fine Gael murdered and how many have they kneecapped,  "disappeared" exiled beaten with baseball bats or the like.
How does their record in that regard compare to Provo IRA/SF?
Which side would shame more of the devils "on Hell"?
Rossfan, in fairness SF have not done any of this either you are straying into TUV policy here. There has also been a ceasefire for the last 20 years and there has to come a time when SF's past connections to the then active IRA becomes irrelevant. Especially now as many of the younger representatives joined post cease fire. Reprehensible as some of Bombers posts are he reacts at times to comments from people like yourself who have no idea of what life was like for Northern Nationalists of my generation (55+) growing up in a state reflected and to some extent still does only reflect British Protestant culture and identity. FG and FF need to stop this as well and to challenge SF on actual policy. With the exception of the SDLP and Alliance every other major political party on this island has been born out of violence or the threat of violence, so people in glass houses etc...As for Bomber everytime he refers to the freestate or freestaters his argument is lost as all anyone sees is the insult, your IRA/SF is exactly the same type of trolling.

Gerry might want to admit his personal connections if he wants that to happen. Do you not see why people can't take SF seriously about moving on when their own leader can't admit to what is common knowledge, let alone move past it?
Mary Lou and her northern puppet's response to McElduff shows they're still operating from the same old playbook.

If I'm being generous I'd say Mary Lou is the sort of transitional leader who is unlikely to do anything to change SF's toxic reputation in Irish society but she may be a necessary leader given how the party has set itself up. Doherty seems a much more able leader and I would hope he will have the balls to tackle the past when Mary Lou is eventually ousted, for poor election results in all likelihood.

Says the FG voter, how many cabinet ministers have now been found to have denied knowledge of the McCabe smear campaign when there was proof they were fully aware of it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Not sure if youre implying that every member of SF prior to 2005 was also a member of the IRA. If so, you are wrong
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:56:14 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Yeah, make no mention of the other points that are made. The way the majority of Nationalists/Republicans see it in the North, is that yes there were maybe incidents that shouldn't have happened but in the long run, those charged with making decisions were doing them for the right reasons.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:59:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

There's no justification for Omagh. I'll make that clear now. That was completely 100% wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 05:02:08 PM
Because it wasn't done by the Provos?
Or because.....?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:02:24 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:59:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

There's no justification for Omagh. I'll make that clear now. That was completely 100% wrong.

Kingsmill? Enniskillen? Warrington?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 05:08:22 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

So the act was justified but the outcome not? Does that pacify you?I'm not going to get into which 1s I seen as justified because I'd be ostracised altogether
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:11:06 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 05:08:22 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

So the act was justified but the outcome not? Does that pacify you?I'm not going to get into which 1s I seen as justified because I'd be ostracised altogether

No. The act of lining ten workmen against a van and shooting them is never justified. The act of planting bombs in busy towns/cities is never justified. Them being an inevitability does not make them justified.

Im an Irish Republican but I will never ever say the likes of Omagh/Enniskillen/Warrington were justified
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 05:12:10 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 05:08:22 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

So the act was justified but the outcome not? Does that pacify you?I'm not going to get into which 1s I seen as justified because I'd be ostracised altogether

You already did so by saying any were justified. The horse has already bolted on this one. You've nothing left to lose so you may as well tell us what massacres you feel were justified.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 05:13:39 PM
So what exact outcome was expected at Kingsmill when you line up 10 or 12 civilians and rake them with gunfire?
When you set off a bomb in the middle of a public gathering in Enniskillen?
When you leave a bomb in a bin in the middle of a busy town centre on a Saturday and let it off without warning?
Set off incindeiespecially during a busy function in a hotel?
Bate a lad up in a shed with crowbars?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:21:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 05:13:39 PM
So what exact outcome was expected at Kingsmill when you line up 10 or 12 civilians and rake them with gunfire?
When you set off a bomb in the middle of a public gathering in Enniskillen?
When you leave a bomb in a bin in the middle of a busy town centre on a Saturday and let it off without warning?
Set off incindeiespecially during a busy function in a hotel?
Bate a lad up in a shed with crowbars?

The outcome of Kingsmill does not justify it.

The outcome of Kingsmill was that it actually did put a bit of fear into loyalist terror groups who had taken 120 civilian lives in the preceding year in discriminate sectarian attacks. They fell off significantly in the wake of Kingsmill.

It does not justify it but it does add context to the rationale behind it.

What about Dunmanway?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: TheOptimist on January 16, 2018, 05:23:47 PM
Lads, the trouble here is that it is the past and the troubles that is being discussed as usual, and that's what the unionists want.

We talk about Kingsmill, it was 42 years ago, 42 years, let that sink in. If you are aged 30 then the second world war was more recent history to your birth than Kingsmill is to now. Politics has moved along way. People are voting now who were born in 1999/2000. That is after the good Friday agreement was signed.

The past needs to be kept where it is, it is the here and now and the future that is important is. What we really need to happen in NI is for the old generation of politicians to sail of into the sunset, the Campbells, Fosters, Adams',Dodds etc and a new generation not tainted by sectarianism and the troubles to emerge.

Any the people of the republic need to stop using the same tactics as the DUP, it is getting less effective up here and it will in the South too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 05:34:10 PM
Bombast - the killings around Dunmanway were it appears carried out by the Anti Treaty IRA who were  the Provos of the time.
Kingsmill sadly didn't prevent Sectarian murders of Catholics by loyalist murder squads.

Donald People and Politicians in the 26 will stop throwing Provo atrocities at SF when  the SF politicians stop holier than thou hectoring and pontificating and provide proper opposition instead.
Picking Marylou as leader instead of Pearse Doherty certainly won't help in this regard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 06:02:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 05:34:10 PM
Bombast - the killings around Dunmanway were it appears carried out by the Anti Treaty IRA who were  the Provos of the time.
Kingsmill sadly didn't prevent Sectarian murders of Catholics by loyalist murder squads.

Donald People and Politicians in the 26 will stop throwing Provo atrocities at SF when  the SF politicians stop holier than thou hectoring and pontificating and provide proper opposition instead.
Picking Marylou as leader instead of Pearse Doherty certainly won't help in this regard.

No you won't. It has only gotten worse since SF started having somewhat of a presence in the South and in the Dail. It was fine having the ''murderers'' up North, out of sight and out of mind. We only have to look at FF/FG considering a coalition with each other as opposed to including SF. It's a complete balls. When the majority of working -class people in the south realise that SF representatives are 1 of them, then we'll see a change and Ross, Syferus will be made to look very silly indeed when it happens.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 05:34:10 PM
Bombast - the killings around Dunmanway were it appears carried out by the Anti Treaty IRA who were  the Provos of the time.
Kingsmill sadly didn't prevent Sectarian murders of Catholics by loyalist murder squads.

Donald People and Politicians in the 26 will stop throwing Provo atrocities at SF when  the SF politicians stop holier than thou hectoring and pontificating and provide proper opposition instead.
Picking Marylou as leader instead of Pearse Doherty certainly won't help in this regard.

Dunmanway was carried out by IRA forces who were aligned with today's establishment parties in the Free State.

Kingsmills did see a massive fall off in Loyalist sectarian murders in the aftermath, I don't think there is much disputing that if you look at the activity of loyalist paramilitaries are sectarian attacks before and after, not that it's justification.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.
Donald - define "working class" 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:29:43 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:29:43 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Sunningdale for slow learners wasn't just about Unionists
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:37:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:29:43 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Sunningdale for slow learners wasn't just about Unionists

It was.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 06:43:35 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:37:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:29:43 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Sunningdale for slow learners wasn't just about Unionists

It was.
Would you shtop
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:52:23 PM
in 1974 the dublin/monaghan bombings killed over 30 people injured 300,both british and irish governments have material files not disclosed  till this day.what does our southern comrades make of this since were remembering events 40 yrs ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 06:56:35 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:52:23 PM
in 1974 the dublin/monaghan bombings killed over 30 people injured 300,both british and irish governments have material files not disclosed  till this day.what does our southern comrades make of this since were remembering events 40 yrs ago.

"What about.."

One distraction tactic, many flavours.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 07:00:09 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 06:56:35 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:52:23 PM
in 1974 the dublin/monaghan bombings killed over 30 people injured 300,both british and irish governments have material files not disclosed  till this day.what does our southern comrades make of this since were remembering events 40 yrs ago.

"What about.."

One distraction tactic, many flavours.

Hypocrisy, one thing you can't run away from.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 07:09:48 PM
it wasnt a distraction tactic just interested in your thoughts in what happened on your doorstep,many comments are attributed on here to the events of the troubles in the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

I'm not trying to justify Kingsmill, I'm trying to add the context to it.

The context was in the preceding years up to, loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in an extended and incessant murder campaign against non-combatants from the nationalist community. In the aftermath of Kingsmill, these type of attacks fell rapidly. That doesn't change the fact that Kingsmill was sectarian, it was horrendous and wrong but it does explain the rationale behind it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Over the Bar on January 16, 2018, 07:52:20 PM
Canavan is the man to replace McElduff in West Tyrone..... according to the bookies anyway.  He might not have much political experience but he's well used to ripping Orange men a new one........ isn't that right BCB?   ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

I'm not trying to justify Kingsmill, I'm trying to add the context to it.

The context was in the preceding years up to, loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in an extended and incessant murder campaign against non-combatants from the nationalist community. In the aftermath of Kingsmill, these type of attacks fell rapidly. That doesn't change the fact that Kingsmill was sectarian, it was horrendous and wrong but it does explain the rationale behind it.

Got ye. Clearly even the Ra felt similar as it was claimed by the South Armagh Action Force I believe
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 08:00:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

I'm not trying to justify Kingsmill, I'm trying to add the context to it.

The context was in the preceding years up to, loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in an extended and incessant murder campaign against non-combatants from the nationalist community. In the aftermath of Kingsmill, these type of attacks fell rapidly. That doesn't change the fact that Kingsmill was sectarian, it was horrendous and wrong but it does explain the rationale behind it.

Got ye. Clearly even the Ra felt similar as it was claimed by the South Armagh Action Force I believe

The Provos were on a ceasefire at this point so it's likely the attack was planned and coordinated by a faction without the approval of the army council.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on January 16, 2018, 08:07:04 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 08:00:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

I'm not trying to justify Kingsmill, I'm trying to add the context to it.

The context was in the preceding years up to, loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in an extended and incessant murder campaign against non-combatants from the nationalist community. In the aftermath of Kingsmill, these type of attacks fell rapidly. That doesn't change the fact that Kingsmill was sectarian, it was horrendous and wrong but it does explain the rationale behind it.

Got ye. Clearly even the Ra felt similar as it was claimed by the South Armagh Action Force I believe

The Provos were on a ceasefire at this point so it's likely the attack was planned and coordinated by a faction without the approval of the army council.
So it wasn't the "nice" faction of the  IRA?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 16, 2018, 08:12:53 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on January 16, 2018, 07:52:20 PM
Canavan is the man to replace McElduff in West Tyrone..... according to the bookies anyway.  He might not have much political experience but he's well used to ripping Orange men a new one........ isn't that right BCB?   ;D

He might need Philip Jordan to do a dive to get over the line.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.

As was Sean Lemass of the "slightly constitutional" Fianna Fail.  A man who didn't like to talk about what he's done during the War of Independence "because people were killed".  Ah well, sure that's OK there, Sean.



...runs for cover!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.

As was Sean Lemass of the "slightly constitutional" Fianna Fail.  A man who didn't like to talk about what he's done during the War of Independence "because people were killed".  Ah well, sure that's OK there, Sean.



...runs for cover!

Free staters don't want to be held to account for the blood shed in their name, they feel only the northern nationalists they abandoned and left to fend for themselves should feel shame in this regard.

Not once has the free state government ever issued any sort of remorse, apology or contrition for their shameful record during the Troubles. Only this week they have further rubbed salt into the wounds of the McAnespie family by refusing to publish the findings of a report they conducted on his murder.

This is the type of attitude that has consistently prevailed down south towards northern nationalists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 10:12:16 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.

As was Sean Lemass of the "slightly constitutional" Fianna Fail.  A man who didn't like to talk about what he's done during the War of Independence "because people were killed".  Ah well, sure that's OK there, Sean.



...runs for cover!

Free staters don't want to be held to account for the blood shed in their name, they feel only the northern nationalists they abandoned and left to fend for themselves should feel shame in this regard.

Not once has the free state government ever issued any sort of remorse, apology or contrition for their shameful record during the Troubles. Only this week they have further rubbed salt into the wounds of the McAnespie family by refusing to publish the findings of a report they conducted on his murder.

This is the type of attitude that has consistently prevailed down south towards northern nationalists.

I don't want to get further drawn into your running battle on here but I did find their reasons for not publishing the findings to be disgusting. People only took part on the basis of confidentiality. I'm sure Aidan went to the game on the basis he'd go home again
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 16, 2018, 10:29:22 PM
What possible reason can there be to withhold a report into the cold blooded murder of an unarmed man on the way to GAA ground. Disgraceful.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 16, 2018, 10:42:26 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.

As was Sean Lemass of the "slightly constitutional" Fianna Fail.  A man who didn't like to talk about what he's done during the War of Independence "because people were killed".  Ah well, sure that's OK there, Sean.



...runs for cover!

Free staters don't want to be held to account for the blood shed in their name, they feel only the northern nationalists they abandoned and left to fend for themselves should feel shame in this regard.

Not once has the free state government ever issued any sort of remorse, apology or contrition for their shameful record during the Troubles. Only this week they have further rubbed salt into the wounds of the McAnespie family by refusing to publish the findings of a report they conducted on his murder.

This is the type of attitude that has consistently prevailed down south towards northern nationalists.

Deflect deflect. INCOMING BULLSHIT
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 11:10:48 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 16, 2018, 10:42:26 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.

As was Sean Lemass of the "slightly constitutional" Fianna Fail.  A man who didn't like to talk about what he's done during the War of Independence "because people were killed".  Ah well, sure that's OK there, Sean.



...runs for cover!

Free staters don't want to be held to account for the blood shed in their name, they feel only the northern nationalists they abandoned and left to fend for themselves should feel shame in this regard.

Not once has the free state government ever issued any sort of remorse, apology or contrition for their shameful record during the Troubles. Only this week they have further rubbed salt into the wounds of the McAnespie family by refusing to publish the findings of a report they conducted on his murder.

This is the type of attitude that has consistently prevailed down south towards northern nationalists.

Deflect deflect. INCOMING BULLSHIT

You seem ashamed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 11:12:52 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 16, 2018, 10:29:22 PM
What possible reason can there be to withhold a report into the cold blooded murder of an unarmed man on the way to GAA ground. Disgraceful.

The same reason information was withheld in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings. The Irish Free State has had a similar outlook on the North of Ireland and the nationalist community as the British state has had.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 17, 2018, 12:14:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the 'IRA/SF' thing
(https://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/meme/2014/06/Reaction-Pic---I-smell-bullshit.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 17, 2018, 08:59:04 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 16, 2018, 10:29:22 PM
What possible reason can there be to withhold a report into the cold blooded murder of an unarmed man on the way to GAA ground. Disgraceful.

they said people who took part in it did so on the basis that their confidentiality would be kept
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnneycool on January 17, 2018, 09:21:11 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:02:24 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:59:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

There's no justification for Omagh. I'll make that clear now. That was completely 100% wrong.

Kingsmill? Enniskillen? Warrington?

Canary Wharf, Manchester?

IMO the big city centre bombs in England brought a new impetus for the British government to find a resolution to the mess they'd created over here. Canary Wharf in particular.

They didn't give a f**k for Enniskillen, bloody Sunday or Kingsmills as it was just dead paddies as they saw it irrespective of the hue.

It's not going to console the Parry's or anyone else caught up in them, but that's the hard facts.

As for the Dublin/Monaghan bombings, the various Irish governments since knew only too well that loyalist didn't have that sort or expertise and it had to be British security services, yet the families have been let down by their own in an attempt not to sling mud at the neighbours. Lack of backbone.

As for balance, FG in Varadker and Coveney to date have played the border/brexit issue well but they need to ensure the final deal meets the criteria they've set out. The Brits have double speak down to a fine art.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 17, 2018, 09:31:15 AM
Peter Canavan won't be standing for SF in the by-election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 17, 2018, 09:44:00 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 17, 2018, 08:59:04 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 16, 2018, 10:29:22 PM
What possible reason can there be to withhold a report into the cold blooded murder of an unarmed man on the way to GAA ground. Disgraceful.

they said people who took part in it did so on the basis that their confidentiality would be kept

Sounds like bollox to me. Release the report with the names replaced by Mr X and Mrs Y then if that is the case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 09:58:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.
You are missing the point, the troubles up here are not as simple as southerners believe, they like you for the most part accept the Unionist mantra of a one sided affair.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 10:09:54 AM
This is very good

https://thebrokenelbow.com/2018/01/15/barry-mcelduffs-resignation-the-two-questions-that-follow/

Barry McElduff's Resignation: The Two Questions That Follow

Posted on January 15, 2018 | 2 comments


Barry McElduff's decision to resign was probably less than voluntary. It is more likely he was told to quit and had no choice.

It followed what is being widely described as a powerful interview with one of the Kingsmill survivors by Miriam O'Callaghan on her RTE Radio One programme yesterday, 'Sunday With Miriam'.

That gives a clue about the source of pressure on McElduff to quit, i.e. from the Southern section of SF and in particular the party's leader-in-waiting Mary Lou McDonald who must have been painfully aware of a) the damage McElduff could do to SF's electoral prospects in the South, and b) that otherwise she would soon meet the same fate as Gerry Adams, pursued in every media interview by endless questions about the IRA's bloody past.

If this was the case then the significance cannot be understated for it marks the beginning of a process in which Sinn Fein's political interests in the South leads it to increasingly separate itself not just from the IRA but from Sinn Fein in the North.

The IRA's place in the Northern Nationalist psyche is deeply embedded and always will be as long as there is a political conflict with Unionism and as long as security policy is riddled with contradictions. The South may find it easy and straightforward to leave the IRA behind; the Northerners not so much.

Here's an example: if Judge McCloskey had been allowed last Friday to confirm his dismissal of the Police Ombudsman's report claiming police collusion with the Loughinisland killers, Barry McElduff's idiocy would have mattered a lot less to Nationalists, notwithstanding O'Callaghan's interview. He may return to court to do just that this week and if he gets his way, the fallout will be interesting.

And in a comment sent to this blog last week, Eamonn McCann, as shrewd an observer of Northern matters as can be found, spoke for many Nationalists with this remark:


'.....when it comes to giggling and gloating about the killing of people of a different religion, the Provos have never been a match for the Loyalist paramilitaries. That doesn't excuse McElduff or SF. But it points up the fact some of the Loyalists, including members of the DUP, who have been caterwauling about McElduff's sectarian stupidity are liars, frauds and abject hypocrites.'

So the two question that follow McElduff's resignation are these:
1.Did Mary Lou McDonald demand his resignation? and,
2.Are we witnessing the start of a North-South schism in Sinn Fein?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 17, 2018, 11:14:30 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 17, 2018, 09:44:00 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 17, 2018, 08:59:04 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 16, 2018, 10:29:22 PM
What possible reason can there be to withhold a report into the cold blooded murder of an unarmed man on the way to GAA ground. Disgraceful.

they said people who took part in it did so on the basis that their confidentiality would be kept

Sounds like bollox to me. Release the report with the names replaced by Mr X and Mrs Y then if that is the case.

Of course it's bollix. The Free State have been carrying out clean up jobs for the British State throughout the troubles and don't want this exposed.

It's amazing how the Roscommon Brownshirts can be so vocal on republican acts during the troubles but have no comment to make on their government's role in obstructing justice for victims and their families in tragic and calculated fatalities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 17, 2018, 11:26:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 09:58:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.
You are missing the point, the troubles up here are not as simple as southerners believe, they like you for the most part accept the Unionist mantra of a one sided affair.
I've never believed the "Troubles" were a 1 sided affair.
Just because I post critically of SF and Provo atrocities doesn't mean I agree with blinkered Unionists who say all was grand until the Provo IRA for some unknown reason started violence in 1970 or 71.
Still no justification for Kingsmill Enniskillen etc.

And I with the above piece that head office in Dublin told Barry to fall on his sword to help SF's chances in the next GE in the 26 which they obviously think isn't that far away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 17, 2018, 12:06:49 PM
Of course there is a split in SF.  Take a look at the representatives in the Republic. Theres a lot of bandwagon jumpers there who would be perfectly happy in the Labour Party, FF or some of the left parties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 12:16:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 17, 2018, 11:26:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 09:58:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.
You are missing the point, the troubles up here are not as simple as southerners believe, they like you for the most part accept the Unionist mantra of a one sided affair.
I've never believed the "Troubles" were a 1 sided affair.
Just because I post critically of SF and Provo atrocities doesn't mean I agree with blinkered Unionists who say all was grand until the Provo IRA for some unknown reason started violence in 1970 or 71.
Still no justification for Kingsmill Enniskillen etc.

And I with the above piece that head office in Dublin told Barry to fall on his sword to help SF's chances in the next GE in the 26 which they obviously think isn't that far away.
There you go again, SF and the Provos!!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 17, 2018, 12:20:05 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 17, 2018, 12:06:49 PM
Of course there is a split in SF.  Take a look at the representatives in the Republic. Theres a lot of bandwagon jumpers there who would be perfectly happy in the Labour Party, FF or some of the left parties.

Most of them more talented than any representatives in the 6 counties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 17, 2018, 12:49:04 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 12:16:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 17, 2018, 11:26:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 09:58:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.
You are missing the point, the troubles up here are not as simple as southerners believe, they like you for the most part accept the Unionist mantra of a one sided affair.
I've never believed the "Troubles" were a 1 sided affair.
Just because I post critically of SF and Provo atrocities doesn't mean I agree with blinkered Unionists who say all was grand until the Provo IRA for some unknown reason started violence in 1970 or 71.
Still no justification for Kingsmill Enniskillen etc.

And I with the above piece that head office in Dublin told Barry to fall on his sword to help SF's chances in the next GE in the 26 which they obviously think isn't that far away.
There you go again, SF and the Provos!!!!
Gerry was never in the IRA
SF had no connection whatever with the Provo IRA
Pigs fly when there's a full moon
Donald Trump is a genius
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 17, 2018, 01:01:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 17, 2018, 11:26:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 09:58:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.
You are missing the point, the troubles up here are not as simple as southerners believe, they like you for the most part accept the Unionist mantra of a one sided affair.
I've never believed the "Troubles" were a 1 sided affair.
Just because I post critically of SF and Provo atrocities doesn't mean I agree with blinkered Unionists who say all was grand until the Provo IRA for some unknown reason started violence in 1970 or 71.
Still no justification for Kingsmill Enniskillen etc.

And I with the above piece that head office in Dublin told Barry to fall on his sword to help SF's chances in the next GE in the 26 which they obviously think isn't that far away.

What about the killers and gunmen who have held office for the establishment parties since the Free State was established? Do you have the same aversion to FG and FF's bloody past as SF's?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 17, 2018, 02:06:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 17, 2018, 12:20:05 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 17, 2018, 12:06:49 PM
Of course there is a split in SF.  Take a look at the representatives in the Republic. Theres a lot of bandwagon jumpers there who would be perfectly happy in the Labour Party, FF or some of the left parties.

Most of them more talented than any representatives in the 6 counties.
That wouldnt be too high a standard to beat but at least the Northern representatives stay loyal to the party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
New boundary proposals released for westminister. Looks like gerrymandering still alive and well. The 3 unionist seats in belfast now a sure thing despite being in the minority in the city.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-seat-axed-in-new-northern-ireland-constituency-boundary-map-36498725.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 17, 2018, 02:31:15 PM
Disgrace if this goes ahead
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on January 17, 2018, 02:59:09 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 17, 2018, 02:31:15 PM
Disgrace if this goes ahead

Part of the DUP/Conservative deal no doubt!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 17, 2018, 03:36:23 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 17, 2018, 01:01:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 17, 2018, 11:26:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 09:58:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.
You are missing the point, the troubles up here are not as simple as southerners believe, they like you for the most part accept the Unionist mantra of a one sided affair.
I've never believed the "Troubles" were a 1 sided affair.
Just because I post critically of SF and Provo atrocities doesn't mean I agree with blinkered Unionists who say all was grand until the Provo IRA for some unknown reason started violence in 1970 or 71.
Still no justification for Kingsmill Enniskillen etc.

And I with the above piece that head office in Dublin told Barry to fall on his sword to help SF's chances in the next GE in the 26 which they obviously think isn't that far away.

What about ?
Yellow card!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 03:43:49 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on January 17, 2018, 03:38:14 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
New boundary proposals released for westminister. Looks like gerrymandering still alive and well. The 3 unionist seats in belfast now a sure thing despite being in the minority in the city.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-seat-axed-in-new-northern-ireland-constituency-boundary-map-36498725.html
Looks like Banbridge is gone from Upper Bann - will that be enough to push it into the nationalist column?
Unlikely
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 17, 2018, 04:08:02 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
New boundary proposals released for westminister. Looks like gerrymandering still alive and well. The 3 unionist seats in belfast now a sure thing despite being in the minority in the city.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-seat-axed-in-new-northern-ireland-constituency-boundary-map-36498725.html

It will be interesting to read the SF consultation reply document that they submitted following the 2016 for which consultation ended last December.

Anyway, it looks unlikely that the number of seats will be changed for Westminster as it was a Cameron policy to do so and the May regime is anti anything related to Cameron especially when a rump of Tory MPs are against the reduction.  However, there is widespread agreement among Tory MPs to have boundaries redrawn to equalise the size of constituencies in GB as it will affect mainly Labour seats and would automatically reduce their numbers in the next election if all else were equal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 17, 2018, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 17, 2018, 03:43:49 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on January 17, 2018, 03:38:14 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
New boundary proposals released for westminister. Looks like gerrymandering still alive and well. The 3 unionist seats in belfast now a sure thing despite being in the minority in the city.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-seat-axed-in-new-northern-ireland-constituency-boundary-map-36498725.html
Looks like Banbridge is gone from Upper Bann - will that be enough to push it into the nationalist column?
Unlikely
I'd actually removed that when I looked for figures, was thinking of 2015 when it was viewed as a three-way contest, but the DUP pulled well ahead in June so that's settled that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: longballin on January 17, 2018, 04:52:07 PM
So Irish News speculates yesterday that Peter Canavan may stand for Sinn Fein in West Tyrone and runs a story today that he won't... seriously, is this journalism?  No-one here thought for a moment he would stand. Fake news.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on January 17, 2018, 04:55:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 10:09:54 AM
This is very good

https://thebrokenelbow.com/2018/01/15/barry-mcelduffs-resignation-the-two-questions-that-follow/

Barry McElduff's Resignation: The Two Questions That Follow   
I read it and found it to be disjointed waffle with little or no substance to support the 2 question supposition.









Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 17, 2018, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
New boundary proposals released for westminister. Looks like gerrymandering still alive and well. The 3 unionist seats in belfast now a sure thing despite being in the minority in the city.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-seat-axed-in-new-northern-ireland-constituency-boundary-map-36498725.html


Best to read this independent view of the proposed boundary changes before following the hysterical SF view of them:

https://nwhyte.livejournal.com/2949414.html (https://nwhyte.livejournal.com/2949414.html)

It would appear that these proposals will not meet with DUP approval on a number of fronts, not least that there are still only 17 seats and the SF seats remain largely unaffected by these new proposals rather than the first proposals which ripped apart the western constituencies held by SF and radically re-drew the boundaries.  The fourth constituency in Belfast was asked for not only by DUP but also by SDLP and other experts in the field who felt that the 3 constituency Belfast would not be as representative of the population as required.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on January 17, 2018, 05:08:51 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 17, 2018, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
New boundary proposals released for westminister. Looks like gerrymandering still alive and well. The 3 unionist seats in belfast now a sure thing despite being in the minority in the city.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-seat-axed-in-new-northern-ireland-constituency-boundary-map-36498725.html


Best to read this independent view of the proposed boundary changes before following the hysterical SF view of them:

https://nwhyte.livejournal.com/2949414.html (https://nwhyte.livejournal.com/2949414.html)

It would appear that these proposals will not meet with DUP approval on a number of fronts, not least that there are still only 17 seats and the SF seats remain largely unaffected by these new proposals rather than the first proposals which ripped apart the western constituencies held by SF and radically re-drew the boundaries.  The fourth constituency in Belfast was asked for not only by DUP but also by SDLP and other experts in the field who felt that the 3 constituency Belfast would not be as representative of the population as required.

No need to contemplate the "who benefits most" scenario
If it doesn't suit the DUP it will never see the light of day
If it does then it's gonna happen
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 07:02:19 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 17, 2018, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
New boundary proposals released for westminister. Looks like gerrymandering still alive and well. The 3 unionist seats in belfast now a sure thing despite being in the minority in the city.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-seat-axed-in-new-northern-ireland-constituency-boundary-map-36498725.html


Best to read this independent view of the proposed boundary changes before following the hysterical SF view of them:

https://nwhyte.livejournal.com/2949414.html (https://nwhyte.livejournal.com/2949414.html)

It would appear that these proposals will not meet with DUP approval on a number of fronts, not least that there are still only 17 seats and the SF seats remain largely unaffected by these new proposals rather than the first proposals which ripped apart the western constituencies held by SF and radically re-drew the boundaries.  The fourth constituency in Belfast was asked for not only by DUP but also by SDLP and other experts in the field who felt that the 3 constituency Belfast would not be as representative of the population as required.

Nwhytes own initial proposal was for 3 seats in Belfast he has since changed his mind. It doesn't matter how you look at it it stinks. A proposal last year came out making N Belfast  and upper bann more competitive for nationalists. Result hissy fit from DUP with vows it will never happen. Fast forward 12 mths and the new proposals suddenly make South, East and North Belfast safe and a likely gain in ND. This is not a hysterical SF view. This manages to screw SF, SDLP, Alliance and Hermon compared to the previous proposal. To add to the woe it will safe guard that cnut Gregory unlike the previous proposals. SDLP wanted 4 seats for Belfast but  I'm guessing they had their eye on Dunmurry shifting into SB to help which ain't happening on these plans.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 07:16:38 PM
Don't the unionists lose a seat under the proposals?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 17, 2018, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 07:16:38 PM
Don't the unionists lose a seat under the proposals?

When has logic ever came into indignance?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 08:19:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 17, 2018, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 07:16:38 PM
Don't the unionists lose a seat under the proposals?

When has logic ever came into indignance?

If a seat gets cut then of course it will be from the east where the constituency populations are lower so the DUP were always going to lose a seat but nice that they now will gain an independents seat and 3 seats in Belfast which were tight and only won by a couple of thousand votes all look nailed on DUP next time. As I said earlier the DUP may  moan about 1 lost seat but deep down they will be delighted. My only hope is that they had a proposal favouring nationalists now they have a proposal stinking DUP maybe they will go back and redraw something more mundane and acceptable to all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 17, 2018, 11:59:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 17, 2018, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 07:16:38 PM
Don't the unionists lose a seat under the proposals?

When has logic ever came into indignance?

Our friend from the wesht displaying his great depth of knowledge again I see.  ;D ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 07:44:34 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2018, 08:19:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 17, 2018, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 07:16:38 PM
Don't the unionists lose a seat under the proposals?

When has logic ever came into indignance?

If a seat gets cut then of course it will be from the east where the constituency populations are lower so the DUP were always going to lose a seat but nice that they now will gain an independents seat and 3 seats in Belfast which were tight and only won by a couple of thousand votes all look nailed on DUP next time. As I said earlier the DUP may  moan about 1 lost seat but deep down they will be delighted. My only hope is that they had a proposal favouring nationalists now they have a proposal stinking DUP maybe they will go back and redraw something more mundane and acceptable to all.
the DUP plus Hermon have 11 and the Taigs have 7.
That does not reflect the demographics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 18, 2018, 08:11:14 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 17, 2018, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 07:16:38 PM
Don't the unionists lose a seat under the proposals?

When has logic ever came into indignance?
Every time you post, it reminds me what I say to my nine year old when she doesn't accept that she's said something wrong.  Your a know it all, that knows nothing ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 18, 2018, 08:57:14 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 18, 2018, 08:11:14 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 17, 2018, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2018, 07:16:38 PM
Don't the unionists lose a seat under the proposals?

When has logic ever came into indignance?
Every time you post, it reminds me what I say to my nine year old when she doesn't accept that she's said something wrong.  Your a know it all, that knows nothing ;D

I'd say a bit like your 9 year old, Syferus still gets tucked into his bed at night with his favourite Teddy bear.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 18, 2018, 11:10:40 AM
The whole boundary commission thing again shows that SF made the right move to bring stormount down. The DUP with the Tories in their pockets is not acceptable to most nationalist people as it makes the playing field even more uneven. DUP will always get what they want as long as these two are in bed together. Interesting to see the UUP are out in voice today saying that there is no need for an Irish language act, obviously a meeting has taken place between the UUP & DUP in the last few weeks to plot a strategy on this issue so that they are all singing of the same hymn sheet which shows unionism is good and strong. Our side could learn a thing or 2 from this instead of point scoring of each other at every opportunity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 18, 2018, 11:17:34 AM
Who makes the final decision on the constituencies?
Is it an independent non political commission or is it the relevant British Minister in London?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on January 18, 2018, 11:18:26 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 18, 2018, 11:10:40 AM
The whole boundary commission thing again shows that SF made the right move to bring stormount down. The DUP with the Tories in their pockets is not acceptable to most nationalist people as it makes the playing field even more uneven. DUP will always get what they want as long as these two are in bed together. Interesting to see the UUP are out in voice today saying that there is no need for an Irish language act, obviously a meeting has taken place between the UUP & DUP in the last few weeks to plot a strategy on this issue so that they are all singing of the same hymn sheet which shows unionism is good and strong. Our side could learn a thing or 2 from this instead of point scoring of each other at every opportunity.

Lol "their side" have been tearing each other to bits since the mid 1990s.  Broad agreement  on the Irish language isn't going to stop them blazing at each other the next time there's a seat to be won.

FWIW what "our side" needs the most (all sides of it) is a lot more tolerance for people who don't blindly follow their preferred party's ideals.

This isnt 1884. It's not even 1994. Modern communications, principally the internet means if you have doubts, you are five seconds away from meeting people who share those doubts. it's not possible to have a single unified voice on everything. Grow with that, not against it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 18, 2018, 01:26:00 PM
Arlene's being all fluffy and warm in Killarney at the weekend, then Sammy Wilson refers to the Leo as "that nutcase Varadkar".  The famous DUP bad cop-bad cop routine!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 18, 2018, 01:35:55 PM
The hate filled bigoted cnuts just can't help themselves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: maddog on January 18, 2018, 01:44:20 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 18, 2018, 01:26:00 PM
Arlene's being all fluffy and warm in Killarney at the weekend, then Sammy Wilson refers to the Leo as "that nutcase Varadkar".  The famous DUP bad cop-bad cop routine!

If he has Sammy rattled Leo is doing something right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 18, 2018, 03:33:14 PM
The leaked proposals follow a Secondary Consultation carried out on the 2016 proposals during the period between 5 September 2017 and 2 October 2017

Again, did SF make a written contribution to the Secondary Consultation of the 2016 proposals consultation carried out by the Boundary Commission?

The difference between the 2016 and 2018 leaked proposals is that the 7 current SF constituencies are left safe for them in the 2018 proposals whereas the 2016 proposals ripped up the constituencies in the West held by SF.
The leaked 2018 proposals have the major changes to boundaries being applied to the safe DUP seats. 

The main losers with the 2018 proposals are SDLP and Sylvia Hermon as South Belfast will remain unionist and North Down takes in Strangford but S Hermon may not stand again in 2022.  So, the removed seat is taken from DUP but they know that they regain it at the expense of S Hermon.  The constituencies electorates are being brought into line with the requirements of the Cameron legislation on electoral boundaries and all are being equalised in electorate size.

How is this gerrymandering by an 8 person independent commission?

The Deputy Chairman of the Commission is a judge of the High Court appointed by the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. The other two Commissioners are appointed by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland through a public appointments process. The Commission is supported in its work by a small Secretariat.

Chairman:   The Speaker of the House of Commons
Deputy Chairman:   The Hon Madam Justice McBride, DBE, QC
Members:   Dr William Smith
Ms Sarah Havlin
Assessors:   
Mr Alan Bronte, Commissioner of Valuation for Northern Ireland
Ms Siobhan Carey, The Registrar General in Northern Ireland
Mr Jim Lennon, Chief Survey Officer of Land & Property Services
Ms Virginia McVea, Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland
Secretary:   Mr Eamonn McConville

The bigger issue is not the Westminster boundaries, it is basing the Assembly constituencies on the Westminster boundaries which will be redrawn every five years under the Cameron legislation to keep constituencies up to date with population shifts.  With 17 constituencies, there will be a reduction from 90 MLAs to 85 MLAs - a good idea given the over representation we currently have but it will through everything in the air again when trying to work out how many DUP and SF can return to the Assembly and who will come out ahead. 

The answer if this is a problem is to have a proper reduction in MLAs and move to the boundaries of the 11 local councils thereby creating a link between Councils and the Assembly for proper local government. With 8 MLAs per council area, almost 90 MLAs could be maintained.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 18, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
Erm.....there are now 11 local councils since 2015.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 18, 2018, 04:20:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 18, 2018, 01:35:55 PM
The hate filled bigoted cnuts just can't help themselves.

Leo's playing a blinder with the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 18, 2018, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 18, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
Erm.....there are now 11 local councils since 2015.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on January 18, 2018, 04:24:29 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 18, 2018, 03:33:14 PM
The leaked proposals follow a Secondary Consultation carried out on the 2016 proposals during the period between 5 September 2017 and 2 October 2017

Again, did SF make a written contribution to the Secondary Consultation of the 2016 proposals consultation carried out by the Boundary Commission?

The difference between the 2016 and 2018 leaked proposals is that the 7 current SF constituencies are left safe for them in the 2018 proposals whereas the 2016 proposals ripped up the constituencies in the West held by SF.
The leaked 2018 proposals have the major changes to boundaries being applied to the safe DUP seats. 

The main losers with the 2018 proposals are SDLP and Sylvia Hermon as South Belfast will remain unionist and North Down takes in Strangford but S Hermon may not stand again in 2022.  So, the removed seat is taken from DUP but they know that they regain it at the expense of S Hermon.  The constituencies electorates are being brought into line with the requirements of the Cameron legislation on electoral boundaries and all are being equalised in electorate size.

How is this gerrymandering by an 8 person independent commission?

The Deputy Chairman of the Commission is a judge of the High Court appointed by the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. The other two Commissioners are appointed by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland through a public appointments process. The Commission is supported in its work by a small Secretariat.

Chairman:   The Speaker of the House of Commons
Deputy Chairman:   The Hon Madam Justice McBride, DBE, QC
Members:   Dr William Smith
Ms Sarah Havlin
Assessors:   
Mr Alan Bronte, Commissioner of Valuation for Northern Ireland
Ms Siobhan Carey, The Registrar General in Northern Ireland
Mr Jim Lennon, Chief Survey Officer of Land & Property Services
Ms Virginia McVea, Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland
Secretary:   Mr Eamonn McConville

The bigger issue is not the Westminster boundaries, it is basing the Assembly constituencies on the Westminster boundaries which will be redrawn every five years under the Cameron legislation to keep constituencies up to date with population shifts.  With 17 constituencies, there will be a reduction from 90 MLAs to 85 MLAs - a good idea given the over representation we currently have but it will through everything in the air again when trying to work out how many DUP and SF can return to the Assembly and who will come out ahead. 

The answer if this is a problem is to have a proper reduction in MLAs and move to the boundaries of the 11 local councils thereby creating a link between Councils and the Assembly for proper local government. With 8 MLAs per council area, almost 90 MLAs could be maintained.

You really are completely naive if you think a commission set up under the auspices of the NIO is 'independent'. FFS wise up.

I don't believe the Assembly constituencies will be of any relevance as that farce up in Stormont is a dead parrot
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 18, 2018, 04:31:55 PM
Quote from: red hander on January 18, 2018, 04:24:29 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 18, 2018, 03:33:14 PM
The leaked proposals follow a Secondary Consultation carried out on the 2016 proposals during the period between 5 September 2017 and 2 October 2017

Again, did SF make a written contribution to the Secondary Consultation of the 2016 proposals consultation carried out by the Boundary Commission?

The difference between the 2016 and 2018 leaked proposals is that the 7 current SF constituencies are left safe for them in the 2018 proposals whereas the 2016 proposals ripped up the constituencies in the West held by SF.
The leaked 2018 proposals have the major changes to boundaries being applied to the safe DUP seats. 

The main losers with the 2018 proposals are SDLP and Sylvia Hermon as South Belfast will remain unionist and North Down takes in Strangford but S Hermon may not stand again in 2022.  So, the removed seat is taken from DUP but they know that they regain it at the expense of S Hermon.  The constituencies electorates are being brought into line with the requirements of the Cameron legislation on electoral boundaries and all are being equalised in electorate size.

How is this gerrymandering by an 8 person independent commission?

The Deputy Chairman of the Commission is a judge of the High Court appointed by the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. The other two Commissioners are appointed by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland through a public appointments process. The Commission is supported in its work by a small Secretariat.

Chairman:   The Speaker of the House of Commons
Deputy Chairman:   The Hon Madam Justice McBride, DBE, QC
Members:   Dr William Smith
Ms Sarah Havlin
Assessors:   
Mr Alan Bronte, Commissioner of Valuation for Northern Ireland
Ms Siobhan Carey, The Registrar General in Northern Ireland
Mr Jim Lennon, Chief Survey Officer of Land & Property Services
Ms Virginia McVea, Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland
Secretary:   Mr Eamonn McConville

The bigger issue is not the Westminster boundaries, it is basing the Assembly constituencies on the Westminster boundaries which will be redrawn every five years under the Cameron legislation to keep constituencies up to date with population shifts.  With 17 constituencies, there will be a reduction from 90 MLAs to 85 MLAs - a good idea given the over representation we currently have but it will through everything in the air again when trying to work out how many DUP and SF can return to the Assembly and who will come out ahead. 

The answer if this is a problem is to have a proper reduction in MLAs and move to the boundaries of the 11 local councils thereby creating a link between Councils and the Assembly for proper local government. With 8 MLAs per council area, almost 90 MLAs could be maintained.

I don't believe the Assembly constituencies will be of any relevance as that farce up in Stormont is a dead parrot

And yet a 'dead parrot' that Mary Lou needs SF to be part of to show that SF can be a party of government and not just a protest movement. 

Quote from: red hander on January 18, 2018, 04:24:29 PM
You really are completely naive if you think a commission set up under the auspices of the NIO is 'independent'. FFS wise up.

Go ahead and set out how the leaked proposals are gerrymandering, very easy to fire stones but much more difficult to back up hysteria with evidence.  All out of Trump's playbook, tell the big lie, keep repeating it and play to the core vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 18, 2018, 04:56:23 PM
I don't know about gerrymandering, but 59% of the seats of about 47% of the votes roughly seems not quite democratic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 18, 2018, 05:03:53 PM
That 1st past the post nonsense is always undemocratic unless you have only 2 candidates.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 05:05:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 18, 2018, 04:56:23 PM
I don't know about gerrymandering, but 59% of the seats of about 47% of the votes roughly seems not quite democratic.
It is very poor
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on January 18, 2018, 05:29:09 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 18, 2018, 04:31:55 PM
Quote from: red hander on January 18, 2018, 04:24:29 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 18, 2018, 03:33:14 PM
The leaked proposals follow a Secondary Consultation carried out on the 2016 proposals during the period between 5 September 2017 and 2 October 2017

Again, did SF make a written contribution to the Secondary Consultation of the 2016 proposals consultation carried out by the Boundary Commission?

The difference between the 2016 and 2018 leaked proposals is that the 7 current SF constituencies are left safe for them in the 2018 proposals whereas the 2016 proposals ripped up the constituencies in the West held by SF.
The leaked 2018 proposals have the major changes to boundaries being applied to the safe DUP seats. 

The main losers with the 2018 proposals are SDLP and Sylvia Hermon as South Belfast will remain unionist and North Down takes in Strangford but S Hermon may not stand again in 2022.  So, the removed seat is taken from DUP but they know that they regain it at the expense of S Hermon.  The constituencies electorates are being brought into line with the requirements of the Cameron legislation on electoral boundaries and all are being equalised in electorate size.

How is this gerrymandering by an 8 person independent commission?

The Deputy Chairman of the Commission is a judge of the High Court appointed by the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. The other two Commissioners are appointed by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland through a public appointments process. The Commission is supported in its work by a small Secretariat.

Chairman:   The Speaker of the House of Commons
Deputy Chairman:   The Hon Madam Justice McBride, DBE, QC
Members:   Dr William Smith
Ms Sarah Havlin
Assessors:   
Mr Alan Bronte, Commissioner of Valuation for Northern Ireland
Ms Siobhan Carey, The Registrar General in Northern Ireland
Mr Jim Lennon, Chief Survey Officer of Land & Property Services
Ms Virginia McVea, Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland
Secretary:   Mr Eamonn McConville

The bigger issue is not the Westminster boundaries, it is basing the Assembly constituencies on the Westminster boundaries which will be redrawn every five years under the Cameron legislation to keep constituencies up to date with population shifts.  With 17 constituencies, there will be a reduction from 90 MLAs to 85 MLAs - a good idea given the over representation we currently have but it will through everything in the air again when trying to work out how many DUP and SF can return to the Assembly and who will come out ahead. 

The answer if this is a problem is to have a proper reduction in MLAs and move to the boundaries of the 11 local councils thereby creating a link between Councils and the Assembly for proper local government. With 8 MLAs per council area, almost 90 MLAs could be maintained.

I don't believe the Assembly constituencies will be of any relevance as that farce up in Stormont is a dead parrot

And yet a 'dead parrot' that Mary Lou needs SF to be part of to show that SF can be a party of government and not just a protest movement. 

Quote from: red hander on January 18, 2018, 04:24:29 PM
You really are completely naive if you think a commission set up under the auspices of the NIO is 'independent'. FFS wise up.

Go ahead and set out how the leaked proposals are gerrymandering, very easy to fire stones but much more difficult to back up hysteria with evidence.  All out of Trump's playbook, tell the big lie, keep repeating it and play to the core vote.

Mary Lou doesn't stand for election in the occupied six, and SF knows its voters in the north will not, in any way, shape or form, accept a return to the oft quoted status quo. DUP won't do a deal for the same reason as regards its supporters. Mary Lou will have to accept the reality that if the party goes back to Stormont without its wishlist fulfilled, it will be electorally damaged, perhaps for ever. Ergo Stormont is finished and Mary Lou will just have to accept that fact, despite the abuse she will get in the Dail from the Blue Shirts and Fianna Fail-ure.

And I don't know WTF Donald Trump has got to do with the obvious DUP-inspired shenanigans of the boundary commissioners. You're way too trusting, way too trusting, of our British overlords.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 19, 2018, 08:58:58 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on January 18, 2018, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 18, 2018, 03:33:14 PM
The answer if this is a problem is to have a proper reduction in MLAs and move to the boundaries of the 11 local councils thereby creating a link between Councils and the Assembly for proper local government. With 8 MLAs per council area, almost 90 MLAs could be maintained.
A little flaw in that idea - Fermanagh and Omagh have the least populated council with around 113,000 while Belfast City is the most populated with nearly 334,000. It would mean that a voter in F&O would have almost three times the voting power compared to a voter in Belfast City at Stormont. It would probably help redress bias against the west of the Bann though!  ;)

Thanks for that.  However, that it easily overcome by using the electorate size to decide the number of MLAs per council area and create a slimmed down assembly with direct connections to the local councils.  We are currently over-represented and there needs to be a change in the governance of a population of just 1.8m. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 19, 2018, 09:58:55 AM
"Irish"Independent all excited as they discover Dessie Ellis keeps all his TD salary in a "secret deal".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AQMP on January 19, 2018, 10:15:38 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2018, 09:58:55 AM
"Irish"Independent all excited as they discover Dessie Ellis keeps all his TD salary in a "secret deal".

I thought the Shinners had done away with the industrial wage nonsense???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 19, 2018, 11:27:52 AM
At least someone in Sinn Fein has a bit of cop on. Good man Dessie. Tell those gobshites that want to follow the average industrial wage shit to get a bit of sense. Anyone on the average industrial wage would jump at a chance of getting a TD's packet.
It will be fun seeing the usual crew trying to defend the Shinners about turn or is it one rule for the newbies and another for Adams old soldiers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 19, 2018, 02:10:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2018, 09:58:55 AM
"Irish"Independent all excited as they discover Dessie Ellis keeps all his TD salary in a "secret deal".

Odd that you are never to be seen bumping the FG or FF threads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 19, 2018, 03:44:44 PM
You bump them up if you're that concerned about them :'(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 20, 2018, 12:31:37 AM
All quiet from the Shinnerbots. They'll accept Scapaticci being on the British payroll but are gobsmacked that Dessie the TV repairman has got away with getting the full monty from the Free State payroll
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 20, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Surprise surprise. ....
Marylou is the only candidate to replace Gerry.
Another reason for me not to give them any preference in for thronging elections.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bogball88 on January 20, 2018, 10:12:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Surprise surprise. ....
Marylou is the only candidate to replace Gerry.
Another reason for me not to give them any preference in for thronging elections.
Like Brian Cowan few years ago
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 20, 2018, 10:48:11 PM
As democratic as a dicatorship!! Told who to vote for; any any other possibles scared of running!@
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on January 20, 2018, 11:28:37 PM
Quote from: bogball88 on January 20, 2018, 10:12:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Surprise surprise. ....
Marylou is the only candidate to replace Gerry.
Another reason for me not to give them any preference in for thronging elections.
Like Brian Cowan few years ago

Sure why let anything let that get in the way when one is SF bashing. It's a sport in Roscommon.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 20, 2018, 11:40:34 PM
Believe it or not Charlie but nearly 4 million non Unionist Irish people don't love Sinn Féin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 21, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Surprise surprise. ....
Marylou is the only candidate to replace Gerry.
Another reason for me not to give them any preference in for thronging elections.

That's not uncommon in many parties Rossfan if you look around.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 21, 2018, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Surprise surprise. ....
Marylou is the only candidate to replace Gerry.
Another reason for me not to give them any preference in for thronging elections.

That's not uncommon in many parties Rossfan if you look around.

Even in parties where there ends up being only one official candidate there's massive and public jockeying for position. SF's approach was anointment. Are SF afraid the grassroots would turn against Mary Lou if they presented them with a choice?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on January 21, 2018, 12:18:50 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 21, 2018, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Surprise surprise. ....
Marylou is the only candidate to replace Gerry.
Another reason for me not to give them any preference in for thronging elections.

That's not uncommon in many parties Rossfan if you look around.

Even in parties where there ends up being only one official candidate there's massive and public jockeying for position. SF's approach was anointment. Are SF afraid the grassroots would turn against Mary Lou if they presented them with a choice?

Why do you care?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on January 21, 2018, 01:08:21 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 21, 2018, 12:18:50 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 21, 2018, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Surprise surprise. ....
Marylou is the only candidate to replace Gerry.
Another reason for me not to give them any preference in for thronging elections.

That's not uncommon in many parties Rossfan if you look around.

Even in parties where there ends up being only one official candidate there's massive and public jockeying for position. SF's approach was anointment. Are SF afraid the grassroots would turn against Mary Lou if they presented them with a choice?

Why do you care?

Because I have an interest in my country. Strange, strange question.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 21, 2018, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 21, 2018, 01:08:21 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 21, 2018, 12:18:50 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 21, 2018, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Surprise surprise. ....
Marylou is the only candidate to replace Gerry.
Another reason for me not to give them any preference in for thronging elections.

That's not uncommon in many parties Rossfan if you look around.

Even in parties where there ends up being only one official candidate there's massive and public jockeying for position. SF's approach was anointment. Are SF afraid the grassroots would turn against Mary Lou if they presented them with a choice?

Why do you care?

Because I have an interest in my country. Strange, strange question.

You're a strange little man.

A very little man indeed.

What do you think of Michael Noonan's role in the Grace case?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 21, 2018, 03:09:56 PM
MaryLou McDonald  - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Brendan Howlin - open contest, unopposed - no election needed

Michael Martin - open contest, other candidates - elected
Leo Varadkar - open contest, other candidate - elected

Michelle O'Neill - closed appointment by party president - no election
Arlene Foster - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Robin Swann - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Naomi Long - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Jim Allister - open contest, unopposed - no election needed

Colum Eastwood - open contest, other candidate - elected
Steven Agnew - open contest, other candidate - elected

Teresa May - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Vince Cable -  open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Nicola Sturgeon - open contest, unopposed - no election needed

Jeremy Corbyn - open contest, other candidate - elected

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 21, 2018, 03:29:13 PM
Was May not the winner out of a field of 5, after Cameron resigned in 2016?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 21, 2018, 04:18:35 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 21, 2018, 03:29:13 PM
Was May not the winner out of a field of 5, after Cameron resigned in 2016?

She ran initially it seemed against a number in the nomination race among MPs but when the election for leader by the members was called she did not have an opponent when Leadsom withdrew May was appointed. Hence, the Tory members did not get to see how useless she is as a campaigner before she showed them in the GE 2017.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 22, 2018, 09:27:17 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 21, 2018, 03:09:56 PM
MaryLou McDonald  - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Brendan Howlin - open contest, unopposed - no election needed

Michael Martin - open contest, other candidates - elected
Leo Varadkar - open contest, other candidate - elected

Michelle O'Neill - closed appointment by party president - no election
Arlene Foster - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Robin Swann - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Naomi Long - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Jim Allister - open contest, unopposed - no election needed

Colum Eastwood - open contest, other candidate - elected
Steven Agnew - open contest, other candidate - elected

Teresa May - open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Vince Cable -  open contest, unopposed - no election needed
Nicola Sturgeon - open contest, unopposed - no election needed

Jeremy Corbyn - open contest, other candidate - elected
Says it all really, different rules and a higher bar set for the Shinners as always, interesting to see what mantra faces Mary Lou as "what did you do in the war Gerry?" becomes irrelevant. Good to see the non combat generation take over. Makes all the SF/IRA quips look a bit stupid. Why oh why though is John O'Dowd not standing as VP, Michelle O'Neill is so fcukin annoying.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 22, 2018, 10:30:41 AM
There has to be some representative from the North to keep evetyone on side and prevent a North South split. A Dublin based leadership could very easily fall into a Dublin 4 media mentality and actually forget what happens on the ground around the country.
At this point we are moving to a "Its the economy" viewpoint. People will want more from Mary Lou than the "tax the rich" shite of the left.
Any of the tradesmen I know who are back in business with the construction boom earn their good money and arent in favour of paying extra tax to feed scroungers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on January 22, 2018, 10:33:54 AM
SFs big problem in the south is that the economy is going ok .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2018, 11:09:36 AM
Not going great round here but voting for Sinn Féin won't do anything for us.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 22, 2018, 11:20:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2018, 11:09:36 AM
Not going great round here but voting for Sinn Féin won't do anything for us.

Perhaps Not, but has any other party done anything?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:24:59 AM
GJL do you think this road will ever be completed. The unionist are going to everything within their power to bring it to a halt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2018, 11:52:16 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 22, 2018, 11:20:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2018, 11:09:36 AM
Not going great round here but voting for Sinn Féin won't do anything for us.

Perhaps Not, but has any other party done anything?
No as we all know too well.
Need some form of tax incentives to get companies to move some of their operations out of overcrowded Dublin  to underprivileged areas.
But with th'internet at 1997........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on January 22, 2018, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:24:59 AM
GJL do you think this road will ever be completed. The unionist are going to everything within their power to bring it to a halt.

They are now grasping at straws with their reasons to stop it. The road will definitely be completed eventually. The people that are responsible for stalling it should hang their heads in shame. People have died as a direct result of this not been done. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 22, 2018, 01:38:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2018, 11:52:16 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 22, 2018, 11:20:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2018, 11:09:36 AM
Not going great round here but voting for Sinn Féin won't do anything for us.

Perhaps Not, but has any other party done anything?
No as we all know too well.
Need some form of tax incentives to get companies to move some of their operations out of overcrowded Dublin  to underprivileged areas.
But with th'internet at 1997........
Contrary to eu law.
And anyway you will have some nimbly act the bollix like in Athenry.  People in rural areas can't have it both ways and our Dublin 4 Taisce pals will object so as to keep our natural boglands or such
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 22, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
Dublin is a problem for the Island as a whole and not just the South. Its a kinda Dublin GAA and Leinster Rugby sorta thing. How you solve it though is another question, but Brexit sure isn't the answer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 23, 2018, 01:55:59 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?
Whoever it was must have a loaf of bread for brains
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: TheOptimist on January 23, 2018, 02:29:26 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.

Take the blinkers off. Derry is as Irish as Donegal. The roads into Derry, Ireland's 4th city are abismal. There is a total of 0 overtaking lanes between Omagh and Derry (the main Dublin to Derry Road), and again no overtaking lane between the top of the Glenshane Pass and Drumahoe (the main Belfast to Derry road). One stretch is as necessary as the other, and it will all be done in time.

Genuinely, out of interest where are you getting your "bulk of travel" figures from?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on January 23, 2018, 02:33:00 PM
As someone from 100m off the Strabane to Derry stretch, I'm happy enough.  I was knocked down on this part of the road as a child (not seriously hurt thankfully).  I know the whole thing is dangerous and all parts deserving of the first upgrading, but the Strabane - Derry A5 goes straight through 4 villages (Ballymagorry, Bready, Magheramason and New Buildings) with significant risk to pedestrians.  There are at least four changes to speed limits, three out of four of those villages demand a 30mph limit, which restricts traffic flow. 

Many many people commute from Strabane to Derry to work, and I know this would open up Strabane as a more attractive commuter town and maybe breathe a bit of life (and investment) back into the place.

So not everyone is unhappy with this schedule.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.

To what extent are drivers responsible for the accidents on these roads?
If accidents involve locals who are well aware of the pitfalls then surely their driving behaviours are open to question, were they driving to the letter of the law, adjusted for inclement weather?
If accidents involve those not familiar with the roads what signage is in place in certain areas to affect driving behaviours?
How many speed cameras are there on these roads, a good deterrent as a fine, points and higher insurance premium usually enough to make most people slow down.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 23, 2018, 04:05:42 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.

To what extent are drivers responsible for the accidents on these roads?
If accidents involve locals who are well aware of the pitfalls then surely their driving behaviours are open to question, were they driving to the letter of the law, adjusted for inclement weather?
If accidents involve those not familiar with the roads what signage is in place in certain areas to affect driving behaviours?
How many speed cameras are there on these roads, a good deterrent as a fine, points and higher insurance premium usually enough to make most people slow down.
So if Drivers are injured near home it is their own fault, if they are injured far away from home it is the DOE's?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on January 23, 2018, 04:20:35 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.

To what extent are drivers responsible for the accidents on these roads?
If accidents involve locals who are well aware of the pitfalls then surely their driving behaviours are open to question, were they driving to the letter of the law, adjusted for inclement weather?
If accidents involve those not familiar with the roads what signage is in place in certain areas to affect driving behaviours?
How many speed cameras are there on these roads, a good deterrent as a fine, points and higher insurance premium usually enough to make most people slow down.

Accidents will happen on roads no matter what you do. It is a matter of reducing the chances of them. Accidents were a plenty on the A4 Ballygawley to Dungannon road before it was ungraded to dual carriage way. Numerous fatalities every year. In the approximately 10 years since the upgrade there has been one that I know of.

The A5 in it's current state is designed for about a 5th of the volume that is currently on it. It is totally unfit for purpose and people are dying because of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 04:21:03 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

Are you saying that your list was the original chronological sequence for the development of the A5? Where did you get this information?

What evidence do you have that this [emboldened sentence] actually happened? Or that it was connected to SF 'trying to buy votes' in Foyle.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2018, 04:22:26 PM
Oglaigh na hEireann have joined the ceasefire. Might as well let the demographics do the work.

Another recognised code word decommissioned
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 04:34:29 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2018, 04:05:42 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.

To what extent are drivers responsible for the accidents on these roads?
If accidents involve locals who are well aware of the pitfalls then surely their driving behaviours are open to question, were they driving to the letter of the law, adjusted for inclement weather?
If accidents involve those not familiar with the roads what signage is in place in certain areas to affect driving behaviours?
How many speed cameras are there on these roads, a good deterrent as a fine, points and higher insurance premium usually enough to make most people slow down.
So if Drivers are injured near home it is their own fault, if they are injured far away from home it is the DOE's?

I don't think so, what do you reckon?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 24, 2018, 08:11:16 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 04:21:03 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

Are you saying that your list was the original chronological sequence for the development of the A5? Where did you get this information?

What evidence do you have that this [emboldened sentence] actually happened? Or that it was connected to SF 'trying to buy votes' in Foyle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-34409959 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-34409959)

Then take a read at the appropriate section of the Fresh Start Agreement where it is stated that the first phase would now be  Derry-Strabane which was contrary to the original plan in which two sections would be built together.  The West Tyrone section was dumped in favour of the Foyle section despite the logic in the sequencing.

BTW if you want to know anything about roads construction and planning in N.Ireland take a look at this excellent site:

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/index.html (http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/index.html)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on January 24, 2018, 08:24:26 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.

To what extent are drivers responsible for the accidents on these roads?
If accidents involve locals who are well aware of the pitfalls then surely their driving behaviours are open to question, were they driving to the letter of the law, adjusted for inclement weather?
If accidents involve those not familiar with the roads what signage is in place in certain areas to affect driving behaviours?
How many speed cameras are there on these roads, a good deterrent as a fine, points and higher insurance premium usually enough to make most people slow down.

The is a regular mobile speed camera on four main points on the A5 Ballygawley to Omagh where so many lives have been lost compared to any other section.  At the top of the first hill from the roundabout, at Garvaghey pointing out of the 50 mph zone towards Ballygawley, outside the Orange Hall about 0.5 mile on the Omagh side of Garvaghey pointing toward Omagh and on the overtaking section about 2 mile out of Omagh and facing towards Omagh.  With so much cross border traffic it misses most of the speeders who are travelling to and from Donegal.

The problem with this section of the road is the volume of the traffic, I used to live on it and it ran night and day.  The mix of traffic with commercial vehicle holding up cars and the number of tractors refusing to pull in to let other traffic past produces high levels of frustration.

Check out this very sad map:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/d/viewer?mid=1rO-EuNnRhiTc8-cSepkXXgx4fjk&ll=54.70424892116435%2C-7.226300250000008&z=9 (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/d/viewer?mid=1rO-EuNnRhiTc8-cSepkXXgx4fjk&ll=54.70424892116435%2C-7.226300250000008&z=9)

I think the map shows which sections of the A5 should be built first and why the Anti A5 Alliance need to go away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on January 25, 2018, 12:17:48 AM
Michelle O'Neill ... what's the story with her ... maybe I've missed her but she seems to be largely invisible in the north.  When SF need a competent speaker, John O'Dowd is put forward, not Michelle.

Now Michelle seems to be a shoe in for SF Vice President.  What am I missing about her?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 25, 2018, 12:33:45 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 25, 2018, 12:17:48 AM
Michelle O'Neill ... what's the story with her ... maybe I've missed her but she seems to be largely invisible in the north.  When SF need a competent speaker, John O'Dowd is put forward, not Michelle.

Now Michelle seems to be a shoe in for SF Vice President.  What am I missing about her?

She is going to be Vice President because of her address, several 26 county folks are more able.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2018, 06:45:18 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 24, 2018, 08:24:26 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.

To what extent are drivers responsible for the accidents on these roads?
If accidents involve locals who are well aware of the pitfalls then surely their driving behaviours are open to question, were they driving to the letter of the law, adjusted for inclement weather?
If accidents involve those not familiar with the roads what signage is in place in certain areas to affect driving behaviours?
How many speed cameras are there on these roads, a good deterrent as a fine, points and higher insurance premium usually enough to make most people slow down.

The is a regular mobile speed camera on four main points on the A5 Ballygawley to Omagh where so many lives have been lost compared to any other section.  At the top of the first hill from the roundabout, at Garvaghey pointing out of the 50 mph zone towards Ballygawley, outside the Orange Hall about 0.5 mile on the Omagh side of Garvaghey pointing toward Omagh and on the overtaking section about 2 mile out of Omagh and facing towards Omagh.  With so much cross border traffic it misses most of the speeders who are travelling to and from Donegal.

The problem with this section of the road is the volume of the traffic, I used to live on it and it ran night and day.  The mix of traffic with commercial vehicle holding up cars and the number of tractors refusing to pull in to let other traffic past produces high levels of frustration.

Check out this very sad map:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/d/viewer?mid=1rO-EuNnRhiTc8-cSepkXXgx4fjk&ll=54.70424892116435%2C-7.226300250000008&z=9 (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/d/viewer?mid=1rO-EuNnRhiTc8-cSepkXXgx4fjk&ll=54.70424892116435%2C-7.226300250000008&z=9)

I think the map shows which sections of the A5 should be built first and why the Anti A5 Alliance need to go away.
The rate of road deaths in Donegal is the highest in the 26 counties. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2018, 06:46:54 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 25, 2018, 12:33:45 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 25, 2018, 12:17:48 AM
Michelle O'Neill ... what's the story with her ... maybe I've missed her but she seems to be largely invisible in the north.  When SF need a competent speaker, John O'Dowd is put forward, not Michelle.

Now Michelle seems to be a shoe in for SF Vice President.  What am I missing about her?

She is going to be Vice President because of her address, several 26 county folks are more able.
Would SF not have more voters in the north?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on January 25, 2018, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 24, 2018, 08:11:16 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 04:21:03 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

Are you saying that your list was the original chronological sequence for the development of the A5? Where did you get this information?

What evidence do you have that this [emboldened sentence] actually happened? Or that it was connected to SF 'trying to buy votes' in Foyle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-34409959 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-34409959)

Then take a read at the appropriate section of the Fresh Start Agreement where it is stated that the first phase would now be  Derry-Strabane which was contrary to the original plan in which two sections would be built together.  The West Tyrone section was dumped in favour of the Foyle section despite the logic in the sequencing.

BTW if you want to know anything about roads construction and planning in N.Ireland take a look at this excellent site:

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/index.html (http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/index.html)

Cannot see anywhere that it says that Martin McGuiness insisted on any changes to the sequence?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 25, 2018, 12:18:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 25, 2018, 12:33:45 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 25, 2018, 12:17:48 AM
Michelle O'Neill ... what's the story with her ... maybe I've missed her but she seems to be largely invisible in the north.  When SF need a competent speaker, John O'Dowd is put forward, not Michelle.

Now Michelle seems to be a shoe in for SF Vice President.  What am I missing about her?

She is going to be Vice President because of her address, several 26 county folks are more able.

Who are these "more able folk"?  Ferris, too linked with the past, another Dublin based TD removes the national feel and in any case the likes of O Broin would be happier in PBP.
It has to be someone from the Six Counties. Whats McElduff doung these days?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 25, 2018, 12:20:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 25, 2018, 06:46:54 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 25, 2018, 12:33:45 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 25, 2018, 12:17:48 AM
Michelle O'Neill ... what's the story with her ... maybe I've missed her but she seems to be largely invisible in the north.  When SF need a competent speaker, John O'Dowd is put forward, not Michelle.

Now Michelle seems to be a shoe in for SF Vice President.  What am I missing about her?

She is going to be Vice President because of her address, several 26 county folks are more able.
Would SF not have more voters in the north?
John O'Dowd and Conor Murphy would be much more able, and easier to listen to. I can only assume that the pushing of O'Neill from relative obscurity into the postion she now holds and as VP is strategic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 25, 2018, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 25, 2018, 12:18:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 25, 2018, 12:33:45 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 25, 2018, 12:17:48 AM
Michelle O'Neill ... what's the story with her ... maybe I've missed her but she seems to be largely invisible in the north.  When SF need a competent speaker, John O'Dowd is put forward, not Michelle.

Now Michelle seems to be a shoe in for SF Vice President.  What am I missing about her?

She is going to be Vice President because of her address, several 26 county folks are more able.

Who are these "more able folk"?  Ferris, too linked with the past, another Dublin based TD removes the national feel and in any case the likes of O Broin would be happier in PBP.
It has to be someone from the Six Counties. Whats McElduff doung these days?

Pearse Doherty is one of the better SF performers I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 25, 2018, 12:58:24 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on January 25, 2018, 12:18:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 25, 2018, 12:33:45 AM
She is going to be Vice President because of her address, several 26 county folks are more able.

Who are these "more able folk"?  Ferris, too linked with the past, another Dublin based TD removes the national feel and in any case the likes of O Broin would be happier in PBP.
It has to be someone from the Six Counties. Whats McElduff doung these days?

I don't mean the dinosaurs like Ferris, Ellis or 'photocopier' Ó Snodaigh. However, most of the TDs, and all the 26 county MEPs give me the impression of being more able than most of the 6 county crowd, even if they might well also fit into the PBP loonies in some cases.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 25, 2018, 12:29:32 PM
Pearse Doherty is one of the better SF performers I'd imagine.

Absolutely, although he is very quiet these days. I would have expected him to be more to the fore on Brexit, which is a real threat to Donegal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
I presume Pearse is being kept hidden so that the strategic politically correct gender balance Dublin based Marylou won't have anyone stealing her thunder.
The O'Neill one seems an absolute disaster.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 25, 2018, 02:30:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
I presume Pearse is being kept hidden so that the strategic politically correct gender balance Dublin based Marylou won't have anyone stealing her thunder.
The O'Neill one seems an absolute disaster.

I know nothing about O'Neill but why does she seem an absolute disaster
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 25, 2018, 02:43:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
I presume Pearse is being kept hidden so that the strategic politically correct gender balance Dublin based Marylou won't have anyone stealing her thunder.

Couldn't he just declare himself a black homosexual woman? Self declaration is all the rage nowadays.


QuoteThe O'Neill one seems an absolute disaster.

Not fair, she hasn't done enough yet to cause anything much.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 25, 2018, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2018, 02:30:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
I presume Pearse is being kept hidden so that the strategic politically correct gender balance Dublin based Marylou won't have anyone stealing her thunder.
The O'Neill one seems an absolute disaster.

I know nothing about O'Neill but why does she seem an absolute disaster

Because he's a blueshirt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on January 26, 2018, 01:54:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 25, 2018, 02:43:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
I presume Pearse is being kept hidden so that the strategic politically correct gender balance Dublin based Marylou won't have anyone stealing her thunder.

Couldn't he just declare himself a black homosexual woman? Self declaration is all the rage nowadays.


QuoteThe O'Neill one seems an absolute disaster.

Not fair, she hasn't done enough yet to cause anything much.
She has done wonders for the mascara market
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 26, 2018, 05:21:39 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 25, 2018, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2018, 02:30:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
I presume Pearse is being kept hidden so that the strategic politically correct gender balance Dublin based Marylou won't have anyone stealing her thunder.
The O'Neill one seems an absolute disaster.

I know nothing about O'Neill but why does she seem an absolute disaster

Because he's a blueshirt.
No he's not.
Doesn't matter anyway - it has no effect on whether Ms.O'Neill is a leader or a patsy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 27, 2018, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 04:34:29 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2018, 04:05:42 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.

To what extent are drivers responsible for the accidents on these roads?
If accidents involve locals who are well aware of the pitfalls then surely their driving behaviours are open to question, were they driving to the letter of the law, adjusted for inclement weather?
If accidents involve those not familiar with the roads what signage is in place in certain areas to affect driving behaviours?
How many speed cameras are there on these roads, a good deterrent as a fine, points and higher insurance premium usually enough to make most people slow down.
So if Drivers are injured near home it is their own fault, if they are injured far away from home it is the DOE's?

I don't think so, what do you reckon?
If drivers are familiar with the road their behaviour is under question!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on January 27, 2018, 11:04:14 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 27, 2018, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 04:34:29 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2018, 04:05:42 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 23, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 23, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 23, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on January 22, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Quote from: GJL on January 22, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 22, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Can people in Donegal confirm that the Irish economy is going ok

The best cure for Donegal's economic problems is SFs other project of uniting Ireland.

I would imagine the completion of the A5 project would be of great benefit to Donegal and the North West in general. Sinn Fein have been a bit quiet on this. Should have been finished by now....

Given that the Strabane-Lifford bridge is the gateway to the A5 route to Monaghan and SF shifted the initial works to Derry Strabane which has the low through flow of traffic just to buy votes in Foyle would be enough to keep them quiet.  Not sure why the Donegal TDs haven't been making much noise given that RoI money is essential to the project and the building of the least used part of the road from Strabane to Derry and the section with the highest traffic flow between Strabane and Omagh won't be built until the other two sections are completed and the by-pass of the main bottleneck in Omagh will be the last piece to be built many years into the future.

When did this happen and what SF person made this decision?

The original scheme was:
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to Derry
Omagh to Strabane
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy

After the mess up with the environmental surveys under Danny Kennedy, the project went into abeyance while all matters were resolved.  SF in West Tyrone ran the A5 Action campaign to force the project back on track but when the PoG was agreed between DUP and SF partners in government, M McGuinness insisted as part of this negotiation that the A5 project would begin with Derry-Strabane and the incoming Infrastructure Minister carried out this requirement. 

The route required for a Donegal-Monaghan connector is Aughnacloy to Strabane hence RoI government providing 75m over three years to have the project continuing.  The bulk of the traffic is on this route and a much lower level is on the Strabane-Derry route.  The next logical step to bringing industry and employment to the West is to continue the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh, then Omagh to Strabane with Strabane to Derry.  Step by step the infrastructure would move forward into the west and onto the Donegal hinterland.

That seems far too much like common sense ::)

It really is a disgrace this is not already complete. A local woman was involved in an accident last weekend between Ballygawley and Omagh and has suffered very serious injuries as a result.

To what extent are drivers responsible for the accidents on these roads?
If accidents involve locals who are well aware of the pitfalls then surely their driving behaviours are open to question, were they driving to the letter of the law, adjusted for inclement weather?
If accidents involve those not familiar with the roads what signage is in place in certain areas to affect driving behaviours?
How many speed cameras are there on these roads, a good deterrent as a fine, points and higher insurance premium usually enough to make most people slow down.
So if Drivers are injured near home it is their own fault, if they are injured far away from home it is the DOE's?

I don't think so, what do you reckon?
If drivers are familiar with the road their behaviour is under question!

The lady I referred to above sadly died today. RIP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on February 03, 2018, 08:56:23 PM
The Great Escape part 2 for Gerry Kelly lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on February 03, 2018, 09:50:46 PM
https://twitter.com/newradical94/status/959869489113378816/video/1 (https://twitter.com/newradical94/status/959869489113378816/video/1)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on February 03, 2018, 09:51:47 PM
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/48101 (http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/48101)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 04, 2018, 12:16:16 AM
And poor old Average Industrial Wage Ellis seems in a bit of bother too. Great start for Mary Lou
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 04, 2018, 12:55:03 AM
2018 is not a good year thus far for sinn Fein.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 04, 2018, 06:55:46 PM
Be interesting to know why yer average SF MLA is running around with bolt cutters in the boot of the car of a morning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 04, 2018, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on February 04, 2018, 06:55:46 PM
Be interesting to know why yer average SF MLA is running around with bolt cutters in the boot of the car of a morning.
Anyone can carry a toolbox of stuff around. Kelly has no difficulty admitting his past unlike some of the other hypocrites in his party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 04, 2018, 07:35:22 PM
Saves paying for parking charges out of a measly average industrial wage, I guess.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on February 04, 2018, 07:43:09 PM
A total idiot. Gone now are the chances of any real discussion at the six county government headquarters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 04, 2018, 07:46:55 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 04, 2018, 07:43:09 PM
A total idiot. Gone now are the chances of any real discussion at the six county government headquarters.

Who would have guessed that a loaf of bread & a set of bolt cutters would be so decisive in the history of mankind?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on February 04, 2018, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on February 04, 2018, 06:55:46 PM
Be interesting to know why yer average SF MLA is running around with bolt cutters in the boot of the car of a morning.

Certainly has planted an idea for some travelling to Croke Park and finding they have parked in the wrong place for the clampers.

Not as expensive as you would think:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cutter-Cropper-Carbon-Steel-Cable/dp/B01ELCUEIA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1517776473&sr=8-2&keywords=bolt+cutters+heavy+duty+36
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on February 04, 2018, 09:18:00 PM
RTE news reporting that he went and borrowed the cutters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LooseCannon on February 04, 2018, 09:20:19 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 04, 2018, 09:18:00 PM
RTE news reporting that he went and borrowed the cutters.

He's a shinner. Probably stole it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 04, 2018, 09:28:05 PM
Have to say although it was a stupid act I kind of like the man more now
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on February 04, 2018, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 04, 2018, 09:20:19 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 04, 2018, 09:18:00 PM
RTE news reporting that he went and borrowed the cutters.

He's a shinner. Probably stole it.

Good one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 04, 2018, 09:43:50 PM
Rte with more coverage of this than they had of the goings on with loyalist informers murdering people with security forces knowledge. Says a lot about them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on February 04, 2018, 10:05:56 PM
I took one off my car in Dublin a few years ago. Private clamping firm. Robbing cnuts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 04, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
hardly a big deal, would do the same myself
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 04, 2018, 10:17:37 PM
Just outside work that gym, carpark just beside it, pay for the carpark you tight fisted bollocks, your not as you think, a law unto yourself!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 04, 2018, 10:28:14 PM
Important to have a bolt cutters in the car. Younger know when some local lad needs his finger nails trimmed
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: amanda on February 04, 2018, 10:34:15 PM
Let's see how far a letter of Comfort goes 🤔
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on February 04, 2018, 10:36:04 PM
DUP doing a lot of whingeing. Don't remember them saying too much few years back when Sammy Wilson was caught with no MOT while being the minister in charge of roads... hypocrites
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on February 04, 2018, 10:39:50 PM
Don't hear much criticism from Sinn Fein and don't expect to either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 04, 2018, 10:47:16 PM
Probably shows how pathetic a region it is when a man walking around with a sliced pan on his head or a man cutting a clamp off his car disturbs the political system
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 04, 2018, 11:16:21 PM
Hes got no f**king excuse, car park straight beside him, another leading example of quality politician up here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 08, 2018, 05:16:06 PM
All the Shinners keeping their heads down until the bullying case dies away
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on February 08, 2018, 05:25:32 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 08, 2018, 05:16:06 PM
All the Shinners keeping their heads down until the bullying case dies away

Bullying case?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 08, 2018, 06:34:35 PM
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-loses-13-public-representatives-over-bullying-claims-1.3381372%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwiIn-uh-pbZAhUoJsAKHdNSBLUQFjAFegQIEBAB&usg=AOvVaw3ZDHBtXzq2Qto9aRvNSjcP&ampcf=
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on February 08, 2018, 07:10:46 PM
Is anyone surprised?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on February 08, 2018, 08:53:35 PM
Democracy is new to Sinn Féin - they'll get there. None of the 13 have disappeared which is progress.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on February 09, 2018, 10:05:39 AM
Gerry's last day in the front office generating considerable considered analysis:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gerry-adams-s-ira-years-an-insider-s-account-1.3385451 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gerry-adams-s-ira-years-an-insider-s-account-1.3385451)

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gerry-adams-sold-defeat-as-victory-in-a-career-based-on-illusion-hes-no-nearer-to-achieving-a-united-ireland-than-he-was-at-the-start-of-his-journey-36584301.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gerry-adams-sold-defeat-as-victory-in-a-career-based-on-illusion-hes-no-nearer-to-achieving-a-united-ireland-than-he-was-at-the-start-of-his-journey-36584301.html)

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/unionist-loathing-of-gerry-adams-was-counterproductive-1.3383651 (https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/unionist-loathing-of-gerry-adams-was-counterproductive-1.3383651)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on February 09, 2018, 10:05:39 AM
Gerry's last day in the front office generating considerable considered analysis:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gerry-adams-s-ira-years-an-insider-s-account-1.3385451 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gerry-adams-s-ira-years-an-insider-s-account-1.3385451)

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gerry-adams-sold-defeat-as-victory-in-a-career-based-on-illusion-hes-no-nearer-to-achieving-a-united-ireland-than-he-was-at-the-start-of-his-journey-36584301.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gerry-adams-sold-defeat-as-victory-in-a-career-based-on-illusion-hes-no-nearer-to-achieving-a-united-ireland-than-he-was-at-the-start-of-his-journey-36584301.html)

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/unionist-loathing-of-gerry-adams-was-counterproductive-1.3383651 (https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/unionist-loathing-of-gerry-adams-was-counterproductive-1.3383651)

Stormont. Still there
British rule. Still there
Recognise Dail Eireann. Tick box.
United Ireland. Further away than ever.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mackers on February 09, 2018, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM
United Ireland. Further away than ever.
I think Brexit has brought it closer.  Read an article at lunchtime that the EU reckon that they have May cornered and that NI is going to have to stay in the Customs Union and this is going to have to be signed for in the next two weeks.  Either May does a U-turn and agrees to stay in the Customs Union or there's going to be a border down the Irish Sea. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on February 09, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM

United Ireland. Further away than ever.

I have you blocked for the constant nonsense you spout, but after seeing you quoted by mackers, I had to check that you actually said that. You are at least one of 1) blind, 2) delusional, or - most likely - 3) looking for a reaction if you think that a UI is further away thn ever after the news this morning and over the past 2 years in general.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 09, 2018, 02:52:26 PM
Has a combination of Englandwalexit and the DUPUDA spending 2016 trying to reinstate one party rule done more for an All Ireland outcome than anyone/anything else? ???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ashman on February 09, 2018, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 09, 2018, 02:52:26 PM
Has a combination of Englandwalexit and the DUPUDA spending 2016 trying to reinstate one party rule done more for an All Ireland outcome than anyone/anything else? ???

The DUP and Men with obsolete skills in the former industrial heartlands of England and Wales have done more for a UI than any republican / nationalist politician over the last 40 years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on February 09, 2018, 04:30:21 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 09, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM

United Ireland. Further away than ever.

I have you blocked for the constant nonsense you spout, but after seeing you quoted by mackers, I had to check that you actually said that. You are at least one of 1) blind, 2) delusional, or - most likely - 3) looking for a reaction if you think that a UI is further away thn ever after the news this morning and over the past 2 years in general.

He's a west Brit shite-pedalling Sindo-reading reality dodging spoofer
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 05:18:53 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 09, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM

United Ireland. Further away than ever.

I have you blocked for the constant nonsense you spout, but after seeing you quoted by mackers, I had to check that you actually said that. You are at least one of 1) blind, 2) delusional, or - most likely - 3) looking for a reaction if you think that a UI is further away thn ever after the news this morning and over the past 2 years in general.

Keep grasping at straws
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 05:22:28 PM
Quote from: red hander on February 09, 2018, 04:30:21 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 09, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM

United Ireland. Further away than ever.

I have you blocked for the constant nonsense you spout, but after seeing you quoted by mackers, I had to check that you actually said that. You are at least one of 1) blind, 2) delusional, or - most likely - 3) looking for a reaction if you think that a UI is further away thn ever after the news this morning and over the past 2 years in general.

He's a west Brit shite-pedalling Sindo-reading reality dodging spoofer

Haven't you some Beanos you could practice your remedial reading on?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on February 09, 2018, 05:43:29 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 05:22:28 PM
Quote from: red hander on February 09, 2018, 04:30:21 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 09, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM

United Ireland. Further away than ever.

I have you blocked for the constant nonsense you spout, but after seeing you quoted by mackers, I had to check that you actually said that. You are at least one of 1) blind, 2) delusional, or - most likely - 3) looking for a reaction if you think that a UI is further away thn ever after the news this morning and over the past 2 years in general.

He's a west Brit shite-pedalling Sindo-reading reality dodging spoofer

Haven't you some Beanos you could practice your remedial reading on?

It's you who needs the education, gobshite. When you use the verb, it's 'practise' ... now jog on, I'm sure there are plenty of other threads you could pollute  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 05:46:51 PM
Quote from: red hander on February 09, 2018, 05:43:29 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 05:22:28 PM
Quote from: red hander on February 09, 2018, 04:30:21 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 09, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM

United Ireland. Further away than ever.

I have you blocked for the constant nonsense you spout, but after seeing you quoted by mackers, I had to check that you actually said that. You are at least one of 1) blind, 2) delusional, or - most likely - 3) looking for a reaction if you think that a UI is further away thn ever after the news this morning and over the past 2 years in general.

He's a west Brit shite-pedalling Sindo-reading reality dodging spoofer

Haven't you some Beanos you could practice your remedial reading on?

It's you who needs the education, gobshite. When you use the verb, it's 'practise' ... now jog on, I'm sure there are plenty of other threads you could pollute  ;D
Obviously the remedial reading is going well. Move on to Jack and the beanstalk now but remember they are not really magic beans
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on February 09, 2018, 05:48:41 PM
Quote from: red hander on February 09, 2018, 04:30:21 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 09, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM

United Ireland. Further away than ever.

I have you blocked for the constant nonsense you spout, but after seeing you quoted by mackers, I had to check that you actually said that. You are at least one of 1) blind, 2) delusional, or - most likely - 3) looking for a reaction if you think that a UI is further away thn ever after the news this morning and over the past 2 years in general.

He's a west Brit shite-pedalling Sindo-reading reality dodging spoofer

What he said....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 10, 2018, 10:48:29 PM
More shite today from MLD. The organ grinder was mixing it with the great unwashed
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 10, 2018, 11:20:21 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 10, 2018, 10:48:29 PM
More shite today from MLD. The organ grinder was mixing it with the great unwashed

Ok. You aren't a SF voter. Nobody cares.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 10, 2018, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 10, 2018, 11:20:21 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 10, 2018, 10:48:29 PM
More shite today from MLD. The organ grinder was mixing it with the great unwashed

Ok. You aren't a SF voter. Nobody cares.

Another of the useful idiots brainwashed by Hyacinth 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 01:32:38 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

That's not the part I was commenting on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 01:32:38 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

That's not the part I was commenting on.
So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

Oh right, u didnt highlight any particular part.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on February 12, 2018, 09:42:38 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners

Who asked you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 12, 2018, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 12, 2018, 09:42:38 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners

Who asked you?
Scrotes like you live in your own delusional little world where you can object to anyone having a different opinion
The rest of us live in the real world gobshite
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on February 12, 2018, 07:24:06 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 12, 2018, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 12, 2018, 09:42:38 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners

Who asked you?
Scrotes like you live in your own delusional little world where you can object to anyone having a different opinion
The rest of us live in the real world gobshite

Answer the fella's question, tosspot
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 12, 2018, 08:22:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on February 12, 2018, 07:24:06 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 12, 2018, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 12, 2018, 09:42:38 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners

Who asked you?
Scrotes like you live in your own delusional little world where you can object to anyone having a different opinion
The rest of us live in the real world gobshite

Answer the fella's question, tosspot
Another scrote head who can't stand a different opinion.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2018, 08:55:04 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners
They could post crash. Reform will be inevitable
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on February 13, 2018, 09:33:12 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 12, 2018, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 12, 2018, 09:42:38 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners

Who asked you?
Scrotes like you live in your own delusional little world where you can object to anyone having a different opinion
The rest of us live in the real world gobshite

Did you log on under the wrong name to answer lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 13, 2018, 10:16:08 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners

The economic realities won't be a deal breaker. This place is costing the British exchequer 9 billion annually with no chance of it being reduced. If a UI was feasible the UK would happily pay 5 billion a year for a transitional period and Ireland would have to pay the rest my guess  being this would come in the form of a block grant form Europe. Once the two economies become more aligned and NI is getting some international commercial investment due to alignment with the south's attractive corporate tax rate then the deficit should be gone.
All theory yes but more than plausible.
It's the blood on the streets and unionists resistance that's the crux of the problem.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 13, 2018, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 13, 2018, 10:16:08 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners

The economic realities won't be a deal breaker. This place is costing the British exchequer 9 billion annually with no chance of it being reduced. If a UI was feasible the UK would happily pay 5 billion a year for a transitional period and Ireland would have to pay the rest my guess  being this would come in the form of a block grant form Europe. Once the two economies become more aligned and NI is getting some international commercial investment due to alignment with the south's attractive corporate tax rate then the deficit should be gone.
All theory yes but more than plausible.
It's the blood on the streets and unionists resistance that's the crux of the problem.

There are options there that are feasible and certainly the British would be prepared to pay some form of support. It is our own politicians North and South who spout about unity but have not brought forward any realistic thoughts on development of agriculture, forestry, fishing, tourism, rural development etc that would convince people that unity is an economic possibility without turning the place into Zimbabwe.
Are the parties who will form the majority prepared to guarantee the rights of the minority i.e. cherish all the children of the nation equally? 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 13, 2018, 11:03:10 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 13, 2018, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 13, 2018, 10:16:08 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners

The economic realities won't be a deal breaker. This place is costing the British exchequer 9 billion annually with no chance of it being reduced. If a UI was feasible the UK would happily pay 5 billion a year for a transitional period and Ireland would have to pay the rest my guess  being this would come in the form of a block grant form Europe. Once the two economies become more aligned and NI is getting some international commercial investment due to alignment with the south's attractive corporate tax rate then the deficit should be gone.
All theory yes but more than plausible.
It's the blood on the streets and unionists resistance that's the crux of the problem.

There are options there that are feasible and certainly the British would be prepared to pay some form of support. It is our own politicians North and South who spout about unity but have not brought forward any realistic thoughts on development of agriculture, forestry, fishing, tourism, rural development etc that would convince people that unity is an economic possibility without turning the place into Zimbabwe.
Are the parties who will form the majority prepared to guarantee the rights of the minority i.e. cherish all the children of the nation equally?

The parties who form the majority better treat everyone equally as happened in the south or they would be losing my vote pronto. Nationalist in the north that have been subjected to the tyranny of unionism have an obligation to take a higher moral ground or else we are just hypocrites. Unionists in the south at the time of Independence were treated as equals when the republic was formed and that's the way it should be. When or if a UI is realised the unionists Protestant vote will have their voice in a new government as any democratic system should function.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 13, 2018, 11:15:50 AM
6 Cos semi autonomous region with a devolved Legislature?
Dual citizenship for those residents of said region who want it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Avondhu star on February 13, 2018, 01:50:27 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 13, 2018, 11:03:10 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 13, 2018, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 13, 2018, 10:16:08 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 11, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 11, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
I don't think a united Ireland is a fantasy. We are at the end of a credit expansion system and there is going to be a massive crash. Like 100 years ago. 3 empires collapsed. Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian .  When new countries were formed. Chaos is when anything can happen.

Must have been some night if you're still drunk at 9am the next morning, Sea.

So do you think a UI is a complete fantasy and there is no chance of reunification?

It is a fantasy when not one party is showing the economic realities of reunification. Where is the money going to come from? The Tories are not going to continue to subsidise the North especially after Brexit.
The next election in the Republic wont be won by any party spouting about reunification. It will be won on economic grounds.   Sinn Feins tax policies will not attract votes from middle income earners

The economic realities won't be a deal breaker. This place is costing the British exchequer 9 billion annually with no chance of it being reduced. If a UI was feasible the UK would happily pay 5 billion a year for a transitional period and Ireland would have to pay the rest my guess  being this would come in the form of a block grant form Europe. Once the two economies become more aligned and NI is getting some international commercial investment due to alignment with the south's attractive corporate tax rate then the deficit should be gone.
All theory yes but more than plausible.
It's the blood on the streets and unionists resistance that's the crux of the problem.

There are options there that are feasible and certainly the British would be prepared to pay some form of support. It is our own politicians North and South who spout about unity but have not brought forward any realistic thoughts on development of agriculture, forestry, fishing, tourism, rural development etc that would convince people that unity is an economic possibility without turning the place into Zimbabwe.
Are the parties who will form the majority prepared to guarantee the rights of the minority i.e. cherish all the children of the nation equally?

The parties who form the majority better treat everyone equally as happened in the south or they would be losing my vote pronto. Nationalist in the north that have been subjected to the tyranny of unionism have an obligation to take a higher moral ground or else we are just hypocrites. Unionists in the south at the time of Independence were treated as equals when the republic was formed and that's the way it should be. When or if a UI is realised the unionists Protestant vote will have their voice in a new government as any democratic system should function.
If anything a strong united party across the Unionist/Loyalist spectrum would have a very powerful voice and could hold the balance of power continously and be a coalition partner in government. It is unlikely tht FF FG SF SDLP Labour PBP (Healys Rae) Socialists etc would unite in total opposition to Unionist/Loyalist.
I wouldnt be overly concerned about the political operation but the ability to maximise economic opportunities and have prosperity and decent living standards for all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 13, 2018, 05:36:42 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 13, 2018, 11:03:10 AM


The parties who form the majority better treat everyone equally as happened in the south or they would be losing my vote pronto. Nationalist in the north that have been subjected to the tyranny of unionism have an obligation to take a higher moral ground or else we are just hypocrites. Unionists in the south at the time of Independence were treated as equals when the republic was formed and that's the way it should be.

While the South today is a pluralist country, at the time of Independence and for a good time after it was a cold house for Protestants. One has only to look at the funeral of our first president Douglas Hyde where FF obeyed the Catholic Church and stayed away, FG obeyed and stayed outside the church and only one Irish politician, Noel Browne, defyed the Catholic Church and actually attended. After attending a soccer match between Ireland and Poland as President, the GAA removed Hyde as their patron. His grave was covered in weeds up until the 1990s when Europe gave us money to do it up. And that's how we treated an Irish speaking Protestant nationalist. There's still some skeletons of burnt out houses that serve as a reminder of the ethnic cleansing of others. Again not a reflection of the Ireland of today.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on July 06, 2018, 04:29:59 PM
Good move by Sinn Fein bringing the RTE (quisling) geoblock issue to public attention and the ongoing BBC disparity of coverage between GAA and other sports with a smaller participation base (i.e. all sports in the gerrymandered jurisdiction).

Next hot topic is the removal of a stripe on O'Neill's gear in the gerrymandered statelet. Why are county teams and some clubs being given 3 stripe but patrons having to put up with this 2 stripe shite on leisure gear and the like? O'Neill's have license to make 3 stripe across the island of Ireland and GAA members in the north are being discriminated against by their intransigence on this issue.

#freethethree #bringbackthatstripeffs

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on July 06, 2018, 04:40:46 PM
Quote from: tiempo on July 06, 2018, 04:29:59 PM
Good move by Sinn Fein bringing the RTE (quisling) geoblock issue to public attention and the ongoing BBC disparity of coverage between GAA and other sports with a smaller participation base (i.e. all sports in the gerrymandered jurisdiction).

Next hot topic is the removal of a stripe on O'Neill's gear in the gerrymandered statelet. Why are county teams and some clubs being given 3 stripe but patrons having to put up with this 2 stripe shite on leisure gear and the like? O'Neill's have license to make 3 stripe across the island of Ireland and GAA members in the north are being discriminated against by their intransigence on this issue.

#freethethree #bringbackthatstripeffs

Any jersey of an Irish based club or county that I have bought from O'Neill's - online, in the O'Neill's shop in the North, or from my club - has three stripes on it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on July 06, 2018, 05:50:39 PM
Quote from: tiempo on July 06, 2018, 04:29:59 PM
Good move by Sinn Fein bringing the RTE (quisling) geoblock issue to public attention and the ongoing BBC disparity of coverage between GAA and other sports with a smaller participation base (i.e. all sports in the gerrymandered jurisdiction).

Next hot topic is the removal of a stripe on O'Neill's gear in the gerrymandered statelet. Why are county teams and some clubs being given 3 stripe but patrons having to put up with this 2 stripe shite on leisure gear and the like? O'Neill's have license to make 3 stripe across the island of Ireland and GAA members in the north are being discriminated against by their intransigence on this issue.

#freethethree #bringbackthatstripeffs

The geoblocking isn't an RTE issue, it's your internet provider and easily remedied. Nobody in Sinn Fein seems to understand this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lenny on July 06, 2018, 09:00:21 PM
Quote from: Minder on July 06, 2018, 05:50:39 PM
Quote from: tiempo on July 06, 2018, 04:29:59 PM
Good move by Sinn Fein bringing the RTE (quisling) geoblock issue to public attention and the ongoing BBC disparity of coverage between GAA and other sports with a smaller participation base (i.e. all sports in the gerrymandered jurisdiction).

Next hot topic is the removal of a stripe on O'Neill's gear in the gerrymandered statelet. Why are county teams and some clubs being given 3 stripe but patrons having to put up with this 2 stripe shite on leisure gear and the like? O'Neill's have license to make 3 stripe across the island of Ireland and GAA members in the north are being discriminated against by their intransigence on this issue.

#freethethree #bringbackthatstripeffs

The geoblocking isn't an RTE issue, it's your internet provider and easily remedied. Nobody in Sinn Fein seems to understand this

How is it easily remedied. What internet service provider in the north doesn't geoblock?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2018, 06:05:51 AM
Virgin Belfast used be fine with the geoblock as it reported its location correctly. Is this still the case?

Why does SF or even the GAA not pressure these providers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on August 06, 2018, 11:20:17 PM
Right so, what happened Michelle?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45089668 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45089668)

QuoteSinn Féin vice-president Michelle O'Neill has had surgery after breaking one of her legs at the weekend.

The Mid Ulster MLA is said to be recovering well.

She took part in the annual Pride parade in Belfast on Saturday and spoke at a festival in the city later that day.

But she did not attend a republican hunger strike commemoration event in County Down on Sunday that was led by her party.

Sinn Féin said the former health minister sustained the injury in an "accident".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on August 06, 2018, 11:26:38 PM
Royal Sinn Fein as they have come to be known. Bunch of traitors. Used to follow them when I was younger and wasn't as wise to their treachery.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on August 06, 2018, 11:37:12 PM
She went for a pint in the knee breakers with Uncle Andy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on August 06, 2018, 11:53:08 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on August 06, 2018, 11:26:38 PM
Royal Sinn Fein as they have come to be known. Bunch of traitors. Used to follow them when I was younger and wasn't as wise to their treachery.

Are you saying they don't have a leg to stand on?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on August 07, 2018, 12:08:50 AM
Will Snarlene send a Get Well card?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dire Ear on August 07, 2018, 10:20:09 AM
Fell after Loughran scored...........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 13, 2018, 05:44:42 PM
Maybe she should have kept it all hidden under the carpet ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on September 13, 2018, 06:10:27 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 13, 2018, 05:02:11 PM
Attention seeking gimp rejects apology

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45512940 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45512940)

Yeah Orior I would say she loved getting raped ffs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 13, 2018, 06:45:51 PM
No she did not. But there is a camera
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on September 13, 2018, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 13, 2018, 05:02:11 PM
Attention seeking gimp rejects apology

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45512940 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45512940)

Embarrassing Orior.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on September 13, 2018, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 13, 2018, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 13, 2018, 05:02:11 PM
Attention seeking gimp rejects apology

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45512940 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45512940)

Embarrassing Orior.

Orior is so far on the wrong side here it's almost trolling
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 13, 2018, 10:15:58 PM
Fair enough, I'm not endorsing rape, and she is a victim and has indeed every right to voice her opinion.

So I will retract.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on September 13, 2018, 10:58:59 PM
It's not the first time this particular repressed homosexual has endorsed rape or tried to deflect his position by blaming the victim of such heinous crimes. If you aren't comfortable in your own sexuality Mr Orior then maybe you should stay firmly in that closet, just off Sunnyside St. You could always try getting on the other bus or wearing comfortable shoes, you old friend of Frankie
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 13, 2018, 11:05:45 PM
That was a brutal post, trying to defend the undefensible
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on September 13, 2018, 11:12:49 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 13, 2018, 11:05:45 PM
That was a brutal post, trying to defend the undefensible

Orior. Has a clear agenda where he attacks the victims of serious sexual crimes, have a look on the previous Ulster Rugby rape trial thread to get an idea about what he is about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 13, 2018, 11:15:23 PM
totally, disagree. it was this one particular individual. but i have retracted.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 13, 2018, 11:18:24 PM
Has a rape victim just been called an attention seeking gimp?

Waow.

As bad as anything fearon ever posted tbh..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 13, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
fair enough
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on September 13, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 13, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
fair enough

Any plans to delete the post?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 14, 2018, 08:23:24 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on September 13, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 13, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
fair enough

Any plans to delete the post?

Yes.

Quote
It's not the first time this particular repressed homosexual has endorsed rape or tried to deflect his position by blaming the victim of such heinous crimes. If you aren't comfortable in your own sexuality Mr Orior then maybe you should stay firmly in that closet, just off Sunnyside St. You could always try getting on the other bus or wearing comfortable shoes, you old friend of Frankie


I wonder could master Ambrose explain his theory on this cracker?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 14, 2018, 08:30:06 AM
Fair play Orior. At least you took it down anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on September 14, 2018, 02:08:23 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 13, 2018, 11:18:24 PM
Has a rape victim just been called an attention seeking gimp?

Waow.

As bad as anything fearon ever posted tbh..

Being a victim of rape doesn't render you immune from scrutiny. She has been appointed to various positions, seemingly solely on the basis of her understandable and legitimate criticism of Sinn Fein. Do those appointing her to these positions have any interest in her welfare? I would think that very unlikely - it looks more like exploitation to me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 14, 2018, 02:22:33 PM
I see what youre saying, the more I think on it Orior was right, she is an attention seeking gimp......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on September 14, 2018, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 14, 2018, 02:22:33 PM
I see what youre saying, the more I think on it Orior was right, she is an attention seeking gimp......

In the context of which she was in the news - giving her side of a police ombudsman report into the PSNI's handling of her rape at the hands of the IRA, I don't think she was attention seeking and to say she was is utterly reprehensible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 14, 2018, 04:40:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 14, 2018, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 14, 2018, 02:22:33 PM
I see what youre saying, the more I think on it Orior was right, she is an attention seeking gimp......

In the context of which she was in the news - giving her side of a police ombudsman report into the PSNI's handling of her rape at the hands of the IRA, I don't think she was attention seeking and to say she was is utterly reprehensible.
Firstly her rape was not at the hands of the IRA, she was raped and abused by well known member of the IRA who it appears abused at least one other girl. The IRA failed her in not dealing with the abuse. The RUC failed her by trying to exploit her abuse for their own ends and social services abused her. Maria Cahill has very obviously been traumatised by her experience bot of the abuse and trying to seek redress. In my view she has been further abused by those political parties opposed to SF, not without abusers in their own ranks trying to score points, rather than get her justice. Maria herself has had a colourful political career. But nothing can excuse the way in which she was treated by the state or by those in the IRA seeking to cover for the organisation in much the same way they criticise the church for doing. MaryLou needs to make a fulsome apology for the sins of the past.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 14, 2018, 04:41:35 PM
I was being sarcastic just for clarification  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on September 14, 2018, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 14, 2018, 04:40:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 14, 2018, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 14, 2018, 02:22:33 PM
I see what youre saying, the more I think on it Orior was right, she is an attention seeking gimp......

In the context of which she was in the news - giving her side of a police ombudsman report into the PSNI's handling of her rape at the hands of the IRA, I don't think she was attention seeking and to say she was is utterly reprehensible.
Firstly her rape was not at the hands of the IRA, she was raped and abused by well known member of the IRA who it appears abused at least one other girl. The IRA failed her in not dealing with the abuse. The RUC failed her by trying to exploit her abuse for their own ends and social services abused her. Maria Cahill has very obviously been traumatised by her experience bot of the abuse and trying to seek redress. In my view she has been further abused by those political parties opposed to SF, not without abusers in their own ranks trying to score points, rather than get her justice. Maria herself has had a colourful political career. But nothing can excuse the way in which she was treated by the state or by those in the IRA seeking to cover for the organisation in much the same way they criticise the church for doing. MaryLou needs to make a fulsome apology for the sins of the past.

Why would the IRA deal with her abuse? You are confusing a terrorist organisation with a court of law. It is not for the IRA to deal with.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 15, 2018, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 14, 2018, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 14, 2018, 04:40:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 14, 2018, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 14, 2018, 02:22:33 PM
I see what youre saying, the more I think on it Orior was right, she is an attention seeking gimp......

In the context of which she was in the news - giving her side of a police ombudsman report into the PSNI's handling of her rape at the hands of the IRA, I don't think she was attention seeking and to say she was is utterly reprehensible.
Firstly her rape was not at the hands of the IRA, she was raped and abused by well known member of the IRA who it appears abused at least one other girl. The IRA failed her in not dealing with the abuse. The RUC failed her by trying to exploit her abuse for their own ends and social services abused her. Maria Cahill has very obviously been traumatised by her experience bot of the abuse and trying to seek redress. In my view she has been further abused by those political parties opposed to SF, not without abusers in their own ranks trying to score points, rather than get her justice. Maria herself has had a colourful political career. But nothing can excuse the way in which she was treated by the state or by those in the IRA seeking to cover for the organisation in much the same way they criticise the church for doing. MaryLou needs to make a fulsome apology for the sins of the past.

Why would the IRA deal with her abuse? You are confusing a terrorist organisation with a court of law. It is not for the IRA to deal with.
The IRA prevented or discouraged her to go to the Police. In this case they should have made an exception. He should also have been exposed and disowned way sooner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 15, 2018, 08:33:06 PM
Liadh (sp) Ní Riada their presidential candidate?


Or will they spring Gerry from the hat?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mayo4Sam on September 17, 2018, 12:57:25 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 14, 2018, 04:40:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 14, 2018, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 14, 2018, 02:22:33 PM
I see what youre saying, the more I think on it Orior was right, she is an attention seeking gimp......

In the context of which she was in the news - giving her side of a police ombudsman report into the PSNI's handling of her rape at the hands of the IRA, I don't think she was attention seeking and to say she was is utterly reprehensible.
Firstly her rape was not at the hands of the IRA, she was raped and abused by well known member of the IRA who it appears abused at least one other girl. The IRA failed her in not dealing with the abuse. The RUC failed her by trying to exploit her abuse for their own ends and social services abused her. Maria Cahill has very obviously been traumatised by her experience bot of the abuse and trying to seek redress. In my view she has been further abused by those political parties opposed to SF, not without abusers in their own ranks trying to score points, rather than get her justice. Maria herself has had a colourful political career. But nothing can excuse the way in which she was treated by the state or by those in the IRA seeking to cover for the organisation in much the same way they criticise the church for doing. MaryLou needs to make a fulsome apology for the sins of the past.

Who are you talking about here?

One hand owning up the other slinging mud
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on September 17, 2018, 10:40:58 AM
This, in part, I imagine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45100442
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 17, 2018, 11:32:17 AM
Not much gender balance in Sinn Féin these days.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 19, 2018, 10:37:18 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 17, 2018, 12:57:25 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 14, 2018, 04:40:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 14, 2018, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 14, 2018, 02:22:33 PM
I see what youre saying, the more I think on it Orior was right, she is an attention seeking gimp......

In the context of which she was in the news - giving her side of a police ombudsman report into the PSNI's handling of her rape at the hands of the IRA, I don't think she was attention seeking and to say she was is utterly reprehensible.
Firstly her rape was not at the hands of the IRA, she was raped and abused by well known member of the IRA who it appears abused at least one other girl. The IRA failed her in not dealing with the abuse. The RUC failed her by trying to exploit her abuse for their own ends and social services abused her. Maria Cahill has very obviously been traumatised by her experience bot of the abuse and trying to seek redress. In my view she has been further abused by those political parties opposed to SF, not without abusers in their own ranks trying to score points, rather than get her justice. Maria herself has had a colourful political career. But nothing can excuse the way in which she was treated by the state or by those in the IRA seeking to cover for the organisation in much the same way they criticise the church for doing. MaryLou needs to make a fulsome apology for the sins of the past.

Who are you talking about here?

One hand owning up the other slinging mud
I have nothing to own up to, I am not in SF nor any party. Other parties have had members in court on charges of varying seriousness. I am merely commenting.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 19, 2018, 12:39:19 PM
Did anyone see Maria Cahill on the television last night?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 24, 2018, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

When they didn't go with a high profile candidate I thought she was a good choice.   Shinners would rock up a 12 to 15% vote from party ranks and she would supplement it with a few more by virtue of being middle class, Gaeltacht, O'Riada family and active MP.

I'd say her Poppy answer last week cost her a lot of the Shinner "banker" vote and that performance last night will have cost her some of the wider vote.

Still she is far from the worst in the field.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 24, 2018, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)

Look up Diane Dodds and give yourself a laugh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)

Hmm. She's obviously SF cannon fodder in this election. She realistically could lose her MEP seat next time around given her performance. Not a credible person.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)

Hmm. She's obviously SF cannon fodder in this election. She realistically could lose her MEP seat next time around given her performance. Not a credible person.
In the top 10% of hardest workers in the European Parliament, and that makes her "not a credible person"? Give it up Trailer ffs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)

Hmm. She's obviously SF cannon fodder in this election. She realistically could lose her MEP seat next time around given her performance. Not a credible person.
In the top 10% of hardest workers in the European Parliament, and that makes her "not a credible person"? Give it up Trailer ffs.

She has the worst attendance out of all of Ireland's MEPs (11/11 and 699 overall). Hardworking me hole. She doesn't bother turning up most of the time ffs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)

Hmm. She's obviously SF cannon fodder in this election. She realistically could lose her MEP seat next time around given her performance. Not a credible person.
In the top 10% of hardest workers in the European Parliament, and that makes her "not a credible person"? Give it up Trailer ffs.

She has the worst attendance out of all of Ireland's MEPs (11/11 and 699 overall). Hardworking me hole. She doesn't bother turning up most of the time ffs.

I literally gave you a link showing how she rates across ALL barometers and it plainly states in black and white that she is rated at 71st out of 751 MEPs for er level of activity. What age are you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)

Hmm. She's obviously SF cannon fodder in this election. She realistically could lose her MEP seat next time around given her performance. Not a credible person.
In the top 10% of hardest workers in the European Parliament, and that makes her "not a credible person"? Give it up Trailer ffs.

She has the worst attendance out of all of Ireland's MEPs (11/11 and 699 overall). Hardworking me hole. She doesn't bother turning up most of the time ffs.

I literally gave you a link showing how she rates across ALL barometers and it plainly states in black and white that she is rated at 71st out of 751 MEPs for er level of activity. What age are you?

36. You?

She tells untruths. She doesn't turn up and the fact she is actually running in this race, makes her not credible in my eyes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 24, 2018, 01:44:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)

Hmm. She's obviously SF cannon fodder in this election. She realistically could lose her MEP seat next time around given her performance. Not a credible person.
In the top 10% of hardest workers in the European Parliament, and that makes her "not a credible person"? Give it up Trailer ffs.

She has the worst attendance out of all of Ireland's MEPs (11/11 and 699 overall). Hardworking me hole. She doesn't bother turning up most of the time ffs.

I literally gave you a link showing how she rates across ALL barometers and it plainly states in black and white that she is rated at 71st out of 751 MEPs for er level of activity. What age are you?

36. You?

She tells untruths. She doesn't turn up and the fact she is actually running in this race, makes her not credible in my eyes.

So because she runs for president she's not credible as a presidential candidate. Gotcha.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:46:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)

Hmm. She's obviously SF cannon fodder in this election. She realistically could lose her MEP seat next time around given her performance. Not a credible person.
In the top 10% of hardest workers in the European Parliament, and that makes her "not a credible person"? Give it up Trailer ffs.

She has the worst attendance out of all of Ireland's MEPs (11/11 and 699 overall). Hardworking me hole. She doesn't bother turning up most of the time ffs.

I literally gave you a link showing how she rates across ALL barometers and it plainly states in black and white that she is rated at 71st out of 751 MEPs for er level of activity. What age are you?

36. You?

She tells untruths. She doesn't turn up and the fact she is actually running in this race, makes her not credible in my eyes.

When you see an MEP rated in the top 10% out of 751 MEPs for workrate across all areas, and you actually try to use the data as evidence that she isn't a hard worker, then I think it's safe to say it's your argument which isn't the most credible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on October 24, 2018, 02:20:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 24, 2018, 01:44:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 24, 2018, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 24, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on October 24, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I see Liadh No Riada has let the cat out of the bag on their "average" industrial wage.
She's taking home €47k which is the average industrial wage apparently. Just the small semantic, her words, of gross versus net

I'm surprised anyone falls for this. They have never taken the average industrial wage. Any of them.

She's not a very credible person to run for President. Given her performances I am surprised she's an elected MEP. Does she bring clout from something else? Her family connections? Her past?

Ranked 71st out of 751 MEPs for level of activity in the role. In other words, she is among the 10% of hardest working MEPs.
http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep (http://www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=124987#mep)

Hmm. She's obviously SF cannon fodder in this election. She realistically could lose her MEP seat next time around given her performance. Not a credible person.
In the top 10% of hardest workers in the European Parliament, and that makes her "not a credible person"? Give it up Trailer ffs.

She has the worst attendance out of all of Ireland's MEPs (11/11 and 699 overall). Hardworking me hole. She doesn't bother turning up most of the time ffs.

I literally gave you a link showing how she rates across ALL barometers and it plainly states in black and white that she is rated at 71st out of 751 MEPs for er level of activity. What age are you?

36. You?

She tells untruths. She doesn't turn up and the fact she is actually running in this race, makes her not credible in my eyes.

So because she runs for president she's not credible as a presidential candidate. Gotcha.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if a few of the underdogs from the TG4 programme threw their hat into the ring. Cringe-worthy running against an incumbent who will in all likelihood get 60 - 70% of the vote. Says all you need to know about those running in this race and the calibre of candidate. After last nights debacle I can't believe people would advocate on her or any other candidates behalf.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on November 04, 2018, 08:54:27 PM
6.4% of the electorate voted for Sean Gallagher. How is that possible, the man has never had an original thought in his life, he disappeared entirely from public life after getting destroyed by the Shinners and their brown envelope and even after all that he still managed to out poll Liadh ni Beige.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 13, 2018, 10:51:07 AM
Where o where did SF get Michelle O'Neill, 200 mile an hour bullsit? No ability to lead or inspire, John O'Dowd or Conor Murphy were the obvious successors to McGuinness.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2018, 11:11:24 AM
And Pearse Doherty the obvious successor to Gorry.
Gender imbalance has them "led" by 2 total numpties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 13, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2018, 10:51:07 AM
Where o where did SF get Michelle O'Neill, 200 mile an hour bullsit? No ability to lead or inspire, John O'Dowd or Conor Murphy were the obvious successors to McGuinness.

As we have seen with the RHI inquiry, SF is still controlled by those who are unelected and O'Neill must have been their choice when consulted by Adams before he anointed her as the successor to McGuinness.  Murphy and O'Dowd would not have been as easy for the men in the shadows to control as they have the capability of being leaders.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: MoChara on November 14, 2018, 09:16:40 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 13, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2018, 10:51:07 AM
Where o where did SF get Michelle O'Neill, 200 mile an hour bullsit? No ability to lead or inspire, John O'Dowd or Conor Murphy were the obvious successors to McGuinness.

As we have seen with the RHI inquiry, SF is still controlled by those who are unelected and O'Neill must have been their choice when consulted by Adams before he anointed her as the successor to McGuinness.  Murphy and O'Dowd would not have been as easy for the men in the shadows to control as they have the capability of being leaders.


Along with this I always believed the main thought behind Michelle was she clean of any troublesome IRA past but has the family history to be credible to the older school members.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on November 14, 2018, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: MoChara on November 14, 2018, 09:16:40 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 13, 2018, 03:02:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2018, 10:51:07 AM
Where o where did SF get Michelle O'Neill, 200 mile an hour bullsit? No ability to lead or inspire, John O'Dowd or Conor Murphy were the obvious successors to McGuinness.

As we have seen with the RHI inquiry, SF is still controlled by those who are unelected and O'Neill must have been their choice when consulted by Adams before he anointed her as the successor to McGuinness.  Murphy and O'Dowd would not have been as easy for the men in the shadows to control as they have the capability of being leaders.
[/quote


Along with this I always believed the main thought behind Michelle was she clean of any troublesome IRA past but has the family history to be credible to the older school members.

Pity about the lack of charisma and leadership qualities all the same.

Will set the Shinners back on the small n vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 14, 2018, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2018, 11:11:24 AM
And Pearse Doherty the obvious successor to Gorry.
Gender imbalance has them "led" by 2 total numpties.

Totally agree with this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Peadar Tóibín overboard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on November 15, 2018, 07:33:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Peadar Tóibín overboard.

Id love to see hin form a new republican party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2018, 08:01:20 PM
Maybe he'll join Fianna Fáil  :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rudi on November 15, 2018, 08:32:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2018, 11:11:24 AM
And Pearse Doherty the obvious successor to Gorry.
Gender imbalance has them "led" by 2 total numpties.

Very true.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: DuffleKing on November 16, 2018, 10:42:36 AM

Whatever about Mary Lou, Michelle O'Neill is a car crash
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2018, 11:49:43 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on November 16, 2018, 10:42:36 AM

Whatever about Mary Lou, Michelle O'Neill is a car crash
MaryLou much more assured.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on November 16, 2018, 12:50:27 PM
Yeah, Michelle is not leader material whatsoever.  Merit went out the window when making that decision.

Much more able operators like Doherty and Murphy have been cast aside in order to pander to the feminist lobby.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 16, 2018, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 16, 2018, 12:50:27 PM
Yeah, Michelle is not leader material whatsoever.  Merit went out the window when making that decision.

Much more able operators like Doherty and Murphy have been cast aside in order to pander to the feminist lobby.

As an ardent critic of SF I am glad some people here see this for what it is. A stunt!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on November 16, 2018, 01:05:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 16, 2018, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 16, 2018, 12:50:27 PM
Yeah, Michelle is not leader material whatsoever.  Merit went out the window when making that decision.

Much more able operators like Doherty and Murphy have been cast aside in order to pander to the feminist lobby.

As an ardent critic of SF I am glad some people here see this for what it is. A stunt!

Glad to see you admit that you're an 'ardent critic'.  Most on here try to pass off their endless criticism of each and every SF move as being objective.  At least you're being honest about it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on November 16, 2018, 01:19:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 16, 2018, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 16, 2018, 12:50:27 PM
Yeah, Michelle is not leader material whatsoever.  Merit went out the window when making that decision.

Much more able operators like Doherty and Murphy have been cast aside in order to pander to the feminist lobby.

As an ardent critic of SF I am glad some people here see this for what it is. A stunt! politics
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 05, 2018, 11:04:05 AM
Wonder what sick stuff this **** was into.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46453695
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46453695)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on December 05, 2018, 11:21:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2018, 11:04:05 AM
Wonder what sick stuff this **** was into.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46453695
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46453695)

He's an animal  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Harold Disgracey on December 05, 2018, 07:52:50 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2018, 11:04:05 AM
Wonder what sick stuff this **** was into.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46453695
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46453695)

What has this to do with the shinners?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2018, 08:07:45 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on December 05, 2018, 07:52:50 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2018, 11:04:05 AM
Wonder what sick stuff this **** was into.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46453695
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46453695)

What has this to do with the shinners?

::) ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 05, 2018, 09:49:29 PM
Put the judges comment of man seems of good character on the WTF thread
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
See Barry Mcelduff back in the game.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dire Ear on December 06, 2018, 10:39:48 PM
Shouldn't have left the game
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 07, 2018, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
See Barry Mcelduff back in the game.

Jobs for the boys. Keep the gravy train running. Choo, Choo!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on December 07, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 07, 2018, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
See Barry Mcelduff back in the game.

Jobs for the boys. Keep the gravy train running. Choo, Choo!!

Yeah. They are all soooo wealthy. Ching ching.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on December 07, 2018, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 07, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 07, 2018, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
See Barry Mcelduff back in the game.

Jobs for the boys. Keep the gravy train running. Choo, Choo!!

Yeah. They are all soooo wealthy. Ching ching.

He had no case to answer according to the prosecution service, yet stood down. Whereas the DUP...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 07, 2018, 05:07:52 PM
Don't put loaves on their heads?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on December 07, 2018, 06:03:01 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2018, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 07, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 07, 2018, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
See Barry Mcelduff back in the game.

Jobs for the boys. Keep the gravy train running. Choo, Choo!!

Yeah. They are all soooo wealthy. Ching ching.

He had no case to answer according to the prosecution service, yet stood down. Whereas the DUP...

You don't have to have committed a crime to be under pressure to step down as a politician
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on December 07, 2018, 06:05:21 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2018, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 07, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 07, 2018, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
See Barry Mcelduff back in the game.

Jobs for the boys. Keep the gravy train running. Choo, Choo!!

Yeah. They are all soooo wealthy. Ching ching.

He had no case to answer according to the prosecution service, yet stood down. Whereas the DUP...

Not quite right, PPS took a decision not to prosecute based on the probability of achieving a conviction, not confirmation of innocence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Therealdonald on December 07, 2018, 06:13:44 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on December 07, 2018, 06:05:21 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2018, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 07, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 07, 2018, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
See Barry Mcelduff back in the game.

Jobs for the boys. Keep the gravy train running. Choo, Choo!!

Yeah. They are all soooo wealthy. Ching ching.

He had no case to answer according to the prosecution service, yet stood down. Whereas the DUP...

Not quite right, PPS took a decision not to prosecute based on the probability of achieving a conviction, not confirmation of innocence.

Glad to see hm back. One of the harder working politicians and represents his constituents real well. Was absolute bollocks that he had to resign anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 07, 2018, 06:30:21 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on December 07, 2018, 06:05:21 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2018, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 07, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 07, 2018, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
See Barry Mcelduff back in the game.

Jobs for the boys. Keep the gravy train running. Choo, Choo!!
Yeah. They are all soooo wealthy. Ching ching.

He had no case to answer according to the prosecution service, yet stood down. Whereas the DUP...

Not quite right, PPS took a decision not to prosecute based on the probability of achieving a conviction, not confirmation of innocence.
Not quite,  CPS "there was insufficient evidence to provide a reasonable prospect of convicting"

In fact, there was little or no evidence to support that he deliberately intended to cause offence, which is the foundation of any charge.
In this instance, insufficient evidence could well mean zilch, nada The presumption of innocence stands, as utter stupidity is not in itself evidence of malice.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 07, 2018, 06:38:40 PM
Personally think it was bollocks that he had to resign in the first place. He made a genuine mistake. Interesting someone raised on another thread about politicians qualifications for the job. What's Barry's background? Is he a career politician?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 09, 2018, 03:45:26 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 07, 2018, 06:48:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 07, 2018, 06:38:40 PM
Personally think it was bollocks that he had to resign in the first place. He made a genuine mistake. Interesting someone raised on another thread about politicians qualifications for the job. What's Barry's background? Is he a career politician?

Thinks it a solicitor
McElduff is a clown and not the sort of politician SF should be promoting. He is however very popular in the Carrickmore area. Having said all that when you look at what the DUP have brazened out he probably shouldn't have resigned and in doing so showed some integrity. There is also very definitely one type of victim in unionist eyes and it is not on the nationalist side.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 19, 2018, 06:54:58 PM
Ivor Bell unfit for trial over Jean McConville murder

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46626092

Veteran republican Ivor Bell is unfit to stand trial over one of the most high-profile murders of the Troubles, a judge has ruled.

The IRA kidnapped mother-of-10 Jean McConville from her home in the Divis flats in west Belfast in 1972.

She was shot and buried, becoming one of the Troubles' Disappeared.

On Tuesday, a judge at Belfast Crown Court, sitting at the High Court, made his decision on Mr Bell in accordance with mental health legislation.

With the criminal proceedings against him halted, a non-criminal procedure - known as a trial of the facts - will take place before a jury in the new year.

It will determine whether Mr Bell had any involvement in Mrs McConville's murder.

Mr Bell, 82, from west Belfast, was charged with encouraging persons to murder Mrs McConville and endeavouring to persuade persons to murder her.

The prosecution case is based on tapes from a history archive of the Troubles that was collected by Boston College in the United States.

It is alleged that one of the interviewees on the tapes - an individual referred to as Z - is Mr Bell.

Mrs McConville's remains were found on Shelling Hill beach in County Louth by a member of the public in August 2003.

Nobody has been convicted of her murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 08, 2019, 12:37:23 AM
After 25 years voting sf ive had enough, lost their way. Now giving out about peaceful protests outside abortion clinics. Do they not see the irony in this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on January 08, 2019, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 08, 2019, 12:37:23 AM
After 25 years voting sf ive had enough, lost their way. Now giving out about peaceful protests outside abortion clinics. Do they not see the irony in this

Good for you I done the same their a pro death party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 08, 2019, 08:53:26 AM
Tóibín reckons 30-40% of northern SF voters have difficulties with the party's stance on abortion, whereas in the south it's "a healthy third".
Will be interesting to see if many of them stay at home on election day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2019, 09:55:01 AM
An awful lot of them must have stayed at home  on Presidential election day.
Or else voted for MD.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 08, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
People could just not vote, but unless Toibin gets going in a lot of constituencies there is no other candidate that is not promoting abortion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 08, 2019, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 08, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
People could just not vote, but unless Toibin gets going in a lot of constituencies there is no other candidate that is not promoting abortion.

Its partly the abortion thing with me especially the 12 weeks and their position on the conscience vote. But they are trying to be all things to all people on so many issues.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 08, 2019, 11:53:29 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on January 08, 2019, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 08, 2019, 12:37:23 AM
After 25 years voting sf ive had enough, lost their way. Now giving out about peaceful protests outside abortion clinics. Do they not see the irony in this

Good for you I done the same their a pro death party.

Who are you voting for now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2019, 12:51:47 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on January 08, 2019, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 08, 2019, 12:37:23 AM
After 25 years voting sf ive had enough, lost their way. Now giving out about peaceful protests outside abortion clinics. Do they not see the irony in this

Good for you I done the same their a pro death party.
Some would say they always were ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 08, 2019, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 08, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
People could just not vote, but unless Toibin gets going in a lot of constituencies there is no other candidate that is not promoting abortion.

Its partly the abortion thing with me especially the 12 weeks and their position on the conscience vote. But they are trying to be all things to all people on so many issues.

SF jump on the populist bandwagon. Not everyone is on the same bandwagon with all issues, therefore they're losing voters on each issue. That image of O'Neill and McDonald celebrating the abortion result was truly sickening.

I certainly won't be voting them again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: markl121 on January 08, 2019, 02:17:35 PM
I used to be a SF voter but how they generally all jump onto band wagons with every single member on social media etc spouting the same stuff is sickening. Does every sinn fein member agree with abortion? I really wouldnt have though so but they are acting like robots. Their politicans seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves and it has been increasingly evident since MON became the northern leader. First it was the gay marraige thing and now its aboprtion. What popular subject with they get to next?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on January 08, 2019, 02:25:34 PM
its fair to say they have lost their way( definitely in the North) albeit not to the same extent as the sdlp but the calibre of leadership isn't as strong as it once was.
say what you like but magennis was shrewd and very articulate, Kelly and conor murphy who were more prominent a few years ago and always came across as considered and measured as did Mitchell mc loughlin to name but a few.
the next couple of years will define sinn fein because brexit is coming down the tracks, we are no nearer a united Ireland, Stormont is a fk-up, the carve up of Belfast city counsil with the dup is also damning, the economy is only providing low paid service jobs  so they need to start taking a bit of responsibility an delivering .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kickham csc on January 08, 2019, 02:32:21 PM
Quote from: markl121 on January 08, 2019, 02:17:35 PM
I used to be a SF voter but how they generally all jump onto band wagons with every single member on social media etc spouting the same stuff is sickening. Does every sinn fein member agree with abortion? I really wouldnt have though so but they are acting like robots. Their politicans seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves and it has been increasingly evident since MON became the northern leader. First it was the gay marraige thing and now its aboprtion. What popular subject with they get to next?

It is clear they have a strategy, and for the strategy to work they need everyone to pull in the one direction.

Sinn Fein are taking steps away from the armed struggle strategy (ballot box and armalite) to one of equality fighters. It only works if everybody is fighting for the same equalities.

So two female leaders not directly linked to the troubles, and fighting for popular causes. I assume the aim is to win over more support from SDLP, Workers Party, Fianna Fáil.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 08, 2019, 02:49:44 PM
You boys are some craic.

The vast majority of people supported legalising abortion in the South. All major political parties supported it. Amnesty international supported it.

So I ask, if you are no longer voting SF because they disagreed with you on ONE issue, tell me then who you will be voting for. Some crack pot independent? Or maybe your more natural bed fellow is the DUP. Maybe you will stop voting full stop. Every party does something that they is at odds with some of their members every now and again.

I used to always tell Fearon its the DUP he should be voting for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 08, 2019, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 08, 2019, 02:49:44 PM
You boys are some craic.

The vast majority of people supported legalising abortion in the South. All major political parties supported it. Amnesty international supported it.

So I ask, if you are no longer voting SF because they disagreed with you on ONE issue, tell me then who you will be voting for. Some crack pot independent? Or maybe your more natural bed fellow is the DUP. Maybe you will stop voting full stop. Every party does something that they is at odds with some of their members every now and again.

I used to always tell Fearon its the DUP he should be voting for.

Im no longer voting them on multiple issues. Abortion, SIF, Bonfire Funds, Poor leadership, Poor record on job creation,  widespread take over of community groups among many things. Im not sure who I will vote yet as I don't know who will stand in Derry. I do think McCallion will lose her seat here, and I celebrated that win with great joy at the time.

Once McGuinness went it became a changed party. Adams is an embarrassment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 08, 2019, 03:59:06 PM
Quote from: markl121 on January 08, 2019, 02:17:35 PM
I used to be a SF voter but how they generally all jump onto band wagons with every single member on social media etc spouting the same stuff is sickening. Does every sinn fein member agree with abortion? I really wouldnt have though so but they are acting like robots. Their politicans seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves and it has been increasingly evident since MON became the northern leader. First it was the gay marraige thing and now its aboprtion. What popular subject with they get to next?

Arah that ould 'gay' thing is only a fad, it'll go out of fashion again.
God be with the good old days when the Church ruled the roost - there were no gays then! And no need for abortions either, women kept their legs closed!
Bring back those good old days!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:09:10 PM
You have to choose to see it as funny if you want to stay sane. Gay marriage is what turned them off SF!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 08, 2019, 04:17:39 PM
Quote from: markl121 on January 08, 2019, 02:17:35 PM
Their politicans seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves and it has been increasingly evident since MON became the northern leader. First it was the gay marraige thing and now its aboprtion.

It's not unusual for a party to keep members in line with whip for issues.

As for thinking for themselves I thought the evidence at the RHI inquiry was very damning.  The evidence of Martin O'Muilleoir was shocking but overshadowed by the DUP shenagins.  It appeared that the most mundane of decisions were passed to third parties for sing-off.

It's a measure of how dysfunctional Northern politics has become that this hardly garnered any attention.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2019, 05:02:17 PM
Was it ever not dysfunctional?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: markl121 on January 08, 2019, 05:48:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:09:10 PM
You have to choose to see it as funny if you want to stay sane. Gay marriage is what turned them off SF!
I was supoortive of gay marraige. Its the way the party all seem to jump in together at once on issues. I wasn't for abortion but I would vote sinn fein for a united ireland which is my main priority. I understand the party would like to have everyone singing off the same hymn sheet, but at the same time,  a few years ago they were anti abortion. Seems a bit ridiculous that every single one of them are now all for it. Must have had an epiphany of sorts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: omaghjoe on January 08, 2019, 05:54:47 PM
Their intolerance for dissent is distinctly cultish and nothing new

Embarrassingly the majority of their voters (in the north) dont want to be associated with them.

McGuniness's pragmatism brought them out of that cult and into the mainstream but they are rudderless at the minute and have reverted to their ideological cult philosophy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 06:44:45 PM
Quote from: markl121 on January 08, 2019, 05:48:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 08, 2019, 04:09:10 PM
You have to choose to see it as funny if you want to stay sane. Gay marriage is what turned them off SF!
I was supoortive of gay marraige. Its the way the party all seem to jump in together at once on issues. I wasn't for abortion but I would vote sinn fein for a united ireland which is my main priority. I understand the party would like to have everyone singing off the same hymn sheet, but at the same time,  a few years ago they were anti abortion. Seems a bit ridiculous that every single one of them are now all for it. Must have had an epiphany of sorts.

That's what's called the populist bandwagon.

SF are Making a UI less likely every day with their antics.

Like those shower of pricks in Westminster, all they care about is shuffling each other aside, to get a seat and a big salary. And to hell with the economy, jobs, wages etc etc. SF and the DUP act in the same way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 08, 2019, 09:24:08 PM
Glad to see people waking up to the antics of SF. A party only interested in lining their own pockets. A party of thugs. Not a decent politician among them. They have reached their peak. They are in decline. Nothing more than a protest vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 09:42:26 PM
The thing is though.... In the north as a nationalist who the feck do you vote for??

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2019, 09:45:59 PM
Ask Karen Bradley ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 09:42:26 PM
The thing is though.... In the north as a nationalist who the feck do you vote for??

Does it even matter?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 08, 2019, 09:51:42 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 09:42:26 PM
The thing is though.... In the north as a nationalist who the feck do you vote for??

Does it even matter?

It is getting to the stage that it doesn't really.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 10:02:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 09:42:26 PM
The thing is though.... In the north as a nationalist who the feck do you vote for??

Does it even matter?

The dup in westminster is not a good thing. It's sickening - the less of them the better.

From that perspective i think it matters but otherwise it doesn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 08, 2019, 10:17:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 10:02:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 09:42:26 PM
The thing is though.... In the north as a nationalist who the feck do you vote for??

Does it even matter?

The dup in westminster is not a good thing. It's sickening - the less of them the better.

From that perspective i think it matters but otherwise it doesn't.

People should be voting tactically. Voting for SF is a vote for corruption. Vote differently and you will get a different outcome.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 08, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 10:28:22 PM
I was reading a few tweets about belfast city council meeting last night and the motion to cut bonfire funding. A carve up between sf and dup is what long called it. Hard not to disagree.

Exactly harold. It is difficult. There are some ones moving up from the south i see with about 6 candidates. I can't recall name. Aside from them no one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 08, 2019, 10:33:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 10:28:22 PM
I was reading a few tweets about belfast city council meeting last night and the motion to cut bonfire funding. A carve up between sf and dup is what long called it. Hard not to disagree.

Exactly harold. It is difficult. There are some ones moving up from the south i see with about 6 candidates. I can't recall name. Aside from them no one.

Belfast City Council funding is an exercise in SF & DUP allocating money to their own wee pet groups that are staffed by party activists, family members etc. Has been like that for years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 11:06:56 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 08, 2019, 10:33:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 10:28:22 PM
I was reading a few tweets about belfast city council meeting last night and the motion to cut bonfire funding. A carve up between sf and dup is what long called it. Hard not to disagree.

Exactly harold. It is difficult. There are some ones moving up from the south i see with about 6 candidates. I can't recall name. Aside from them no one.

Belfast City Council funding is an exercise in SF & DUP allocating money to their own wee pet groups that are staffed by party activists, family members etc. Has been like that for years.

Jobs and money for the lads then, eh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 08, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that's a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don't care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don't support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It's a pathetic charade.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: markl121 on January 08, 2019, 11:43:38 PM
It seems like they decided ok let's get the gay vote, so lump on to gay marriage. Oh let's get more on the fence women on board, so promote abortion etc. It's a clever strategy for attaining votes although I do wonder how many of the new voters are in favour of a United ireland. I suppose it's like me voting them for a UI and someone else voting them for gay marriage. They could have completely different demographics voting for them although I think the hardcore northern vote is still nationalist and unionist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 09, 2019, 12:00:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 08, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that's a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don't care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don't support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It's a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they'll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We're past that now lads get the Government up and running and people's lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won't want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn't have us in this position. He's such a loss for the North we're only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on January 09, 2019, 08:08:02 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here's hoping 🤞
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:10:50 AM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 08:08:02 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here's hoping 🤞

The only thing FF will teach them is corruption and how to f**k up a country. If you are looking to those wankers for help god help you. How anyone in this country could vote for them after what they did is beyond me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 09, 2019, 12:00:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 08, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that's a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don't care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don't support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It's a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they'll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We're past that now lads get the Government up and running and people's lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won't want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn't have us in this position. He's such a loss for the North we're only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2019, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 09, 2019, 12:00:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 08, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that's a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don't care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don't support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It's a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they'll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We're past that now lads get the Government up and running and people's lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won't want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn't have us in this position. He's such a loss for the North we're only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

SF facilitated the DUP. SIF is a perfect example. SF are every bit as bad as the DUP for letting them away with it. SF and the DUP are unable to govern. They only lasted 11 months without the other parties in the executive, no budget for example. They couldn't run a bath.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on January 09, 2019, 10:59:31 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:10:50 AM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 08:08:02 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here's hoping 🤞

The only thing FF will teach them is corruption and how to f**k up a country. If you are looking to those w**kers for help god help you. How anyone in this country could vote for them after what they did is beyond me.
I take it you don't live in the north
we have no government
everything is a carve up between dup/sinn fein,
apart from sound bites regarding irish language etc
what are they actively doing re brexit,regarding job losses, education, health etc
ff might just bring sinn fein a dose of reality that they and the dup must start acting like grown ups and start justifying their salaries
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2019, 11:04:57 AM
 https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/merger-with-fianna-f%C3%A1il-is-a-no-brainer-for-sdlp-1.3750234
Merger with Fianna Fáil is a no-brainer for SDLP

Remoteness from positions of power is the antithesis of party politics

Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 00:30

Denis Bradley

There were two things that Derry, the home and the heart of John Hume, never thought would happen. The first was Brexit. The second was that Sinn Féin would win the Foyle Westminster seat. Foyle was Hume's and his protégé Durkan's seat. Both have now happened and together they explain why the SDLP is deep in discussion with Fianna Fáil about a possible partnership.

Reading the signs of the times is healthy for individuals and essential for organisations. The post-peace status and future of the SDLP is not a new discussion. It was being debated in Derry 40 years ago. Would it, should it, could it transpose itself after its primary mission of peace was achieved? That debate about how broad a political church it was and whether it could morph into a conventional political party was often discussed but never fully resolved.

"The big beasts of Hume and Mallon are no longer there but the new young Turks have been reared at the same coalface

When, in recent times, the seminal achievement of the SDLP, the Belfast Agreement, went through a more negative phase resulting in the suspension of the institutions, politics degenerated into an arm wrestle between unionism and republicanism. Voters bemoaned the loss of a more sophisticated and generous politics but in the arm wrestle it was more important to make sure that the other side didn't win and for a good few years now it was Sinn Féin's arm that was on the table.

Brexit whirlwind

Then Brexit came. The slow, often frustrating pace of politics in the North that had thankfully replaced the violence was swept into the whirlwind of Brexit. The constitutional position was thrown into the centre of politics, in Ireland, in Europe and, most importantly, in Britain. The party that had argued most cogently for being a part of Europe, that had a small but articulate voice in Westminster and had been among the main architects of Anglo-Irish policies, was now without presence or influence at any of these seats of power. To be distanced or adrift from the positions of power is the antithesis of party politics. To be in that position when a substantial portion of your manifesto is at the cutting edge of change is a humiliation.


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Related SDLP partnership talks with Fianna Fáil nearing an end 
The Irish Times view on the FF/SDLP merger: A challenging political union 
Fianna Fáil and SDLP people feel now is the time to move on merger 
Talks are ongoing between SDLP leader Colum Eastwood, above, Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin and senior officials. File photograph: Niall Carson/PA Micheal Martin (left) and Colum Eastwood: "There are suggestions that the SDLP, being the smaller entity, organisationally weak and financially poor, has little to offer to Fianna Fáil. This ignores the reality that the Border and the relationship between the North and the Republic are going to dominate politics on this island for the foreseeable future."  File photograph: Niall Carson/PA   
The new, young leadership of the SDLP had a choice: allow the party to continue a slow and painful decline into irrelevance or resurrect an old idea of positioning itself in the mainstream of all-Ireland politics. That argument had merit in the past but in the slipstream of Brexit it was a no-brainer. For the foreseeable future all politics will be obsessed and dominated by the economic and constitutional consequences of Brexit. The Irish border is already a central cog in the debate about when and how Brexit will manifest itself on the ground. The issue of a border poll, how and when it should be triggered, will keep imposing itself. The changing demographics in Northern Ireland, nationalism and unionism moving out of minority and majority status to face each other on an equal numerical basis, will create its own dynamics and opportunities.

There are suggestions that the SDLP, being the smaller entity, organisationally weak and financially poor, has little to offer to Fianna Fáil. This ignores the reality that the Border and the relationship between the North and the Republic are going to dominate politics on this island for the foreseeable future. Those issues are bread and butter to the SDLP. There is a residue of memory, insight and experience within that party that can be acquired only at the coalface. The big beasts of Hume and Mallon are no longer there but the new young Turks have been reared at the same coalface and are already portraying their own charisma and insights.

Paradoxes

Northerners are often described as the more direct of the Irish, calling a spade a spade rather than an agricultural instrument but there are subtleties and paradoxes in Northern life that sometimes elude their brethren in the Republic.

"Fianna Fáil will have the advantage of being a co-guarantor which has an actual presence and membership in the North

At this year's party conference the present leader, Colum Eastwood, said: "The Ireland that Hume imagined has come to pass, an Ireland at peace with itself and free to decide its own destiny. The next phase of politics will be centred on the Ireland we now choose to build, having been gifted that powerful inheritance. It will be driven by an understanding that a fractured Ireland is always an Ireland in waiting. In terms of realignment, the future this party collectively decides will be driven by that primary purpose."
Fianna Fáil leader Micheal Martin. Photograph: Brenda Fitzsimons Fianna Fáil leader Micheal Martin. Photograph: Brenda Fitzsimons   
That short extract succinctly captures what is in this realignment for Fianna Fáil. When you see yourself as the movement with primary responsibility for the unification of the lands and the peoples of Ireland, a proper and official presence in the North will bring great joy and comfort to the cumainn throughout the length and breath of Ireland. There will be a quiet pride in the Fianna Fáil heartlands. It also puts the party on a par with Sinn Féin, whose all-Ireland credentials have been an irritant and modest embarrassment to the elder republican party. In crucial and sensitive discussions about future relationships on this island, as a party in government or even in a confidence-and-supply relationship with Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil will have the advantage of being a co-guarantor which has an actual presence and membership in the North.
Even 40 years ago it was known that such a realignment would result in tensions and disappointment among a portion of the SDLP. The numbers and the depth of the disappointment has been dissipated by a series of electoral results. The greater number know that the post-Brexit map has not been drawn yet but that this coming together of the SDLP and Fianna Fáil is an important element in the configuration of this map.

Denis Bradley is a journalist and a former vice-chairman of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2019, 11:40:13 AM
Apart from being someones for "our " side to vote for in Elections is there any further point to either SF (6 Cos) or SDLP existing at all?
Are they both marking time till there's a "Border Poll" and see where that takes everything?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 09, 2019, 11:40:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 08, 2019, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 08, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
People could just not vote, but unless Toibin gets going in a lot of constituencies there is no other candidate that is not promoting abortion.

Its partly the abortion thing with me especially the 12 weeks and their position on the conscience vote. But they are trying to be all things to all people on so many issues.

SF jump on the populist bandwagon. Not everyone is on the same bandwagon with all issues, therefore they're losing voters on each issue. That image of O'Neill and McDonald celebrating the abortion result was truly sickening.

I certainly won't be voting them again.
Sickening? why? Women celebrate the right to choose in circumstances we as men can not experience or relate to, what is sickening is all this sanctimonious bullshit about murder and both lives matter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 09, 2019, 11:48:04 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 08, 2019, 04:17:39 PM
Quote from: markl121 on January 08, 2019, 02:17:35 PM
Their politicans seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves and it has been increasingly evident since MON became the northern leader. First it was the gay marraige thing and now its aboprtion.

It's not unusual for a party to keep members in line with whip for issues.

As for thinking for themselves I thought the evidence at the RHI inquiry was very damning.  The evidence of Martin O'Muilleoir was shocking but overshadowed by the DUP shenagins.  It appeared that the most mundane of decisions were passed to third parties for sing-off.

It's a measure of how dysfunctional Northern politics has become that this hardly garnered any attention.

/Jim.
None of the parties covered themselves in glory regarding RHI and it's oversight, it's just that the DUP were embroiled in the scheme.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 09, 2019, 11:55:51 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 09, 2019, 11:40:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 08, 2019, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 08, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
People could just not vote, but unless Toibin gets going in a lot of constituencies there is no other candidate that is not promoting abortion.

Its partly the abortion thing with me especially the 12 weeks and their position on the conscience vote. But they are trying to be all things to all people on so many issues.

SF jump on the populist bandwagon. Not everyone is on the same bandwagon with all issues, therefore they're losing voters on each issue. That image of O'Neill and McDonald celebrating the abortion result was truly sickening.

I certainly won't be voting them again.
Sickening? why? Women celebrate the right to choose in circumstances we as men can not experience or relate to, what is sickening is all this sanctimonious bullshit about murder and both lives matter.

on such a sensitive issue more humility was required. It was not a football result which had just been announced and that is how it looked.

SF are goosed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kickham csc on January 09, 2019, 11:56:20 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 09, 2019, 12:00:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 08, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that's a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don't care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don't support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It's a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they'll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We're past that now lads get the Government up and running and people's lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won't want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn't have us in this position. He's such a loss for the North we're only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

Got to agree with this statement. Sinn Fein may be bad, but they tried to work with the DUP, and they were increasingly becoming more  and more hardlined (removal of the Irish grants etc)

If Sinn Fein hold out, and the DUP finally realise that it's for the best for the country to compromise on identity and equality issues, then the Stormont shutdown will be worth it.

You can't have a single party that can veto gay rights, passing laws that are suppressed due to religious ideology, and are blazingly and openly corrupt etc. A stand had to be made at some time.

In regards to Sinn Fein's absence in Westminster. They have been active in the EU and Irish Parliament on the Brexit issue. This is in alignment with their stated policy (not taking Westminster seats).

So they exercising their mandate.

To be honest, the strategy may be right, they had more opportunity to influence the Irish and EU parliaments than they ever had to do in Westminster over the long term. The DUP are currently in a bind, they supported the Brexit vote that has lead them to a position where they are supporting an increasingly unpopular government that has limited options in regards to Brexit implementation. Via their actions have put a strain on the UK, and are in a position where their actions can be directly linked to the severely weakening of the UK in regards to economic power and constitutional unity of the UK.

I see sinn Fein being in a win-win position here.

If the current proposal remains, Ireland will start being treated as a single geographical unit, which is a major step in unifying the nation.

If a no brexit deal is reached, then the North would potentially be better off with the republic.

Win-Win
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2019, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 09, 2019, 12:00:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 08, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that's a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don't care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don't support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It's a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they'll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We're past that now lads get the Government up and running and people's lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won't want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn't have us in this position. He's such a loss for the North we're only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

SF facilitated the DUP. SIF is a perfect example. SF are every bit as bad as the DUP for letting them away with it. SF and the DUP are unable to govern. They only lasted 11 months without the other parties in the executive, no budget for example. They couldn't run a bath.
So you're saying SF are bad because they are letting the DUP away with it, Screenexcile is saying they should forget about things and try and make it work with the DUP and getting Stormont up and running again. So whichever way they decide to go they are going to get slated. For what it's worth, I think they made the correct decision walking away. They DUP needed to learn that they didn't have sole control of NI. It had been building and hopefully will make the DUP realise in the Long run that they need to engage better and not see any reference to Irish culture as a negative. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2019, 01:29:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2019, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 09, 2019, 12:00:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 08, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that's a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don't care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don't support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It's a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they'll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We're past that now lads get the Government up and running and people's lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won't want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn't have us in this position. He's such a loss for the North we're only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

SF facilitated the DUP. SIF is a perfect example. SF are every bit as bad as the DUP for letting them away with it. SF and the DUP are unable to govern. They only lasted 11 months without the other parties in the executive, no budget for example. They couldn't run a bath.
So you're saying SF are bad because they are letting the DUP away with it, Screenexcile is saying they should forget about things and try and make it work with the DUP and getting Stormont up and running again. So whichever way they decide to go they are going to get slated. For what it's worth, I think they made the correct decision walking away. They DUP needed to learn that they didn't have sole control of NI. It had been building and hopefully will make the DUP realise in the Long run that they need to engage better and not see any reference to Irish culture as a negative.

They should get Stormont up and running again. And while they're at it they should DO THEIR f**king JOBS and run the executive like an office of government rather than a vehicle for corruption.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2019, 01:29:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2019, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 09, 2019, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 09, 2019, 12:00:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 08, 2019, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 08, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that's a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don't care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don't support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It's a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they'll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We're past that now lads get the Government up and running and people's lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won't want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn't have us in this position. He's such a loss for the North we're only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

SF facilitated the DUP. SIF is a perfect example. SF are every bit as bad as the DUP for letting them away with it. SF and the DUP are unable to govern. They only lasted 11 months without the other parties in the executive, no budget for example. They couldn't run a bath.
So you're saying SF are bad because they are letting the DUP away with it, Screenexcile is saying they should forget about things and try and make it work with the DUP and getting Stormont up and running again. So whichever way they decide to go they are going to get slated. For what it's worth, I think they made the correct decision walking away. They DUP needed to learn that they didn't have sole control of NI. It had been building and hopefully will make the DUP realise in the Long run that they need to engage better and not see any reference to Irish culture as a negative.

They should get Stormont up and running again. And while they're at it they should DO THEIR f**king JOBS and run the executive like an office of government rather than a vehicle for corruption.
And give in to a DUP Veto on everything? You're statement sounds great but is incredibly naive. Stormont was set up as a Power sharing agreement. If the DUP are unwilling to share power then it's outside of SF's control. And that's basically what it comes down to. The choice is to either give in and let the DUP control power completely in NI or No stormont. They tried negotiations with the DUP who refused to budge. I don't agree that it should always be SF/ Nationalists who have to move on their position. If you have a realistic plan of how to get Stormont up and running again other than just giving into the DUP again then I'd be interested in hearing it, but needs to be a bit more that "they should DO THEIR f**king JOBS".
Personally I think SF come  with that much baggage that the DUP are always on the defensive and SF have to deal with that in a better way than they are doing. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 02:01:00 PM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 10:59:31 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:10:50 AM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 08:08:02 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here's hoping 🤞

The only thing FF will teach them is corruption and how to f**k up a country. If you are looking to those w**kers for help god help you. How anyone in this country could vote for them after what they did is beyond me.
I take it you don't live in the north
we have no government
everything is a carve up between dup/sinn fein,
apart from sound bites regarding irish language etc
what are they actively doing re brexit,regarding job losses, education, health etc
ff might just bring sinn fein a dose of reality that they and the dup must start acting like grown ups and start justifying their salaries

I was born and bred 5 mies south of the border. I am aware of how the North operates and I am also aware of how the south works. FF are a cancer and if you think getting cancer is the cure for your ills you are sadly mistaken.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 09, 2019, 02:20:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 09, 2019, 11:48:04 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 08, 2019, 04:17:39 PM
Quote from: markl121 on January 08, 2019, 02:17:35 PM
Their politicans seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves and it has been increasingly evident since MON became the northern leader. First it was the gay marraige thing and now its aboprtion.

It's not unusual for a party to keep members in line with whip for issues.

As for thinking for themselves I thought the evidence at the RHI inquiry was very damning.  The evidence of Martin O'Muilleoir was shocking but overshadowed by the DUP shenagins.  It appeared that the most mundane of decisions were passed to third parties for sing-off.

It's a measure of how dysfunctional Northern politics has become that this hardly garnered any attention.

/Jim.
None of the parties covered themselves in glory regarding RHI and it's oversight, it's just that the DUP were embroiled in the scheme.

My point is peripheral to the RHI scheme really.  What I found strange was that an elected a politician was getting "approval" from non-elected people for even the most mundane decisions.

It presents two likely scenarios.  The first is that he is completely incompetent.  The second scenario (one which would be grist to the mill of Shinner critics) is that shadowy figures in the background are running the show.

The DUP have made such a fcuk job of things, the Shinners could get away with that without a whimper from the press.

It's bewildering to watch it from outside but I guess both parties have massive electoral mandates which they can point to as justification.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Minder on January 09, 2019, 04:42:40 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 08, 2019, 10:33:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 10:28:22 PM
I was reading a few tweets about belfast city council meeting last night and the motion to cut bonfire funding. A carve up between sf and dup is what long called it. Hard not to disagree.

Exactly harold. It is difficult. There are some ones moving up from the south i see with about 6 candidates. I can't recall name. Aside from them no one.

Belfast City Council funding is an exercise in SF & DUP allocating money to their own wee pet groups that are staffed by party activists, family members etc. Has been like that for years.

And today the Irish News reports that £500k of "bonfire diversion" Council funds has been awarded to Feile, before the application process has even started, and a director of Feile is the brother of a SF councillor.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 09, 2019, 04:47:40 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 09, 2019, 04:42:40 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 08, 2019, 10:33:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2019, 10:28:22 PM
I was reading a few tweets about belfast city council meeting last night and the motion to cut bonfire funding. A carve up between sf and dup is what long called it. Hard not to disagree.

Exactly harold. It is difficult. There are some ones moving up from the south i see with about 6 candidates. I can't recall name. Aside from them no one.

Belfast City Council funding is an exercise in SF & DUP allocating money to their own wee pet groups that are staffed by party activists, family members etc. Has been like that for years.

And today the Irish News reports that £500k of "bonfire diversion" Council funds has been awarded to Feile, before the application process has even started, and a director of Feile is the brother of a SF councillor.

And then the walk out along with the DUP few days ago in Belfast when the SIF project was challenged at council meeting. And then there is Maria Cahill of course. And then............. far too many issues
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2019, 05:11:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 02:01:00 PM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 10:59:31 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:10:50 AM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 08:08:02 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here's hoping 🤞

The only thing FF will teach them is corruption and how to f**k up a country. If you are looking to those w**kers for help god help you. How anyone in this country could vote for them after what they did is beyond me.
I take it you don't live in the north
we have no government
everything is a carve up between dup/sinn fein,
apart from sound bites regarding irish language etc
what are they actively doing re brexit,regarding job losses, education, health etc
ff might just bring sinn fein a dose of reality that they and the dup must start acting like grown ups and start justifying their salaries

I was born and bred 5 mies south of the border. I am aware of how the North operates and I am also aware of how the south works. FF are a cancer and if you think getting cancer is the cure for your ills you are sadly mistaken.

Who do we need then FG?
If Fianna Fail are a Cancer, Sinn Fein are the black plaque.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 06:47:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2019, 05:11:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 02:01:00 PM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 10:59:31 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:10:50 AM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 08:08:02 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here's hoping 🤞

The only thing FF will teach them is corruption and how to f**k up a country. If you are looking to those w**kers for help god help you. How anyone in this country could vote for them after what they did is beyond me.
I take it you don't live in the north
we have no government
everything is a carve up between dup/sinn fein,
apart from sound bites regarding irish language etc
what are they actively doing re brexit,regarding job losses, education, health etc
ff might just bring sinn fein a dose of reality that they and the dup must start acting like grown ups and start justifying their salaries

I was born and bred 5 mies south of the border. I am aware of how the North operates and I am also aware of how the south works. FF are a cancer and if you think getting cancer is the cure for your ills you are sadly mistaken.

Who do we need then FG?
If Fianna Fail are a Cancer, Sinn Fein are the black plaque.

Did your da get knee capped or something?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2019, 08:26:32 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 06:47:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2019, 05:11:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 02:01:00 PM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 10:59:31 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:10:50 AM
Quote from: naka on January 09, 2019, 08:08:02 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here's hoping 🤞

The only thing FF will teach them is corruption and how to f**k up a country. If you are looking to those w**kers for help god help you. How anyone in this country could vote for them after what they did is beyond me.
I take it you don't live in the north
we have no government
everything is a carve up between dup/sinn fein,
apart from sound bites regarding irish language etc
what are they actively doing re brexit,regarding job losses, education, health etc
ff might just bring sinn fein a dose of reality that they and the dup must start acting like grown ups and start justifying their salaries

I was born and bred 5 mies south of the border. I am aware of how the North operates and I am also aware of how the south works. FF are a cancer and if you think getting cancer is the cure for your ills you are sadly mistaken.

Who do we need then FG?
If Fianna Fail are a Cancer, Sinn Fein are the black plaque.

Did your da get knee capped or something?

Worse
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on January 09, 2019, 08:33:04 PM
I see in the latest Sinn Fein/DUP carve up the Belfast City councillors voted down channelling the £500k to an anti-poverty initiative so it could be given to Feile, so we can safely assume Jackie McDonald and his cohort of "community workers" will be getting a similar rate payer funded windfall soon, with Sinn Féin's full backing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on January 10, 2019, 07:33:57 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2019, 08:33:04 PM
I see in the latest Sinn Fein/DUP carve up the Belfast City councillors voted down channelling the £500k to an anti-poverty initiative so it could be given to Feile, so we can safely assume Jackie McDonald and his cohort of "community workers" will be getting a similar rate payer funded windfall soon, with Sinn Féin's full backing.

They don't even try to hide it any more.

Maybe with global warming we can grow bananas.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on January 10, 2019, 09:48:00 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 10, 2019, 07:33:57 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2019, 08:33:04 PM
I see in the latest Sinn Fein/DUP carve up the Belfast City councillors voted down channelling the £500k to an anti-poverty initiative so it could be given to Feile, so we can safely assume Jackie McDonald and his cohort of "community workers" will be getting a similar rate payer funded windfall soon, with Sinn Féin's full backing.

They don't even try to hide it any more.

Maybe with global warming we can grow bananas.


They know they can do it unchallenged and will all be voted back in and can continue to do it, maybe raise a few strategic green/orange sham fights towards election time
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 10, 2019, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2019, 08:33:04 PM
I see in the latest Sinn Fein/DUP carve up the Belfast City councillors voted down channelling the £500k to an anti-poverty initiative so it could be given to Feile, so we can safely assume Jackie McDonald and his cohort of "community workers" will be getting a similar rate payer funded windfall soon, with Sinn Féin's full backing.
Purely coincidentally  :-\ an identical sum of money has been made available for bonfire initiatives.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46787542
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46787542)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 10, 2019, 11:59:02 AM
Also all of them walked out en masse when that SiF stuff was talked about :(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 10, 2019, 12:42:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2019, 11:59:02 AM
Also all of them walked out en masse when that SiF stuff was talked about :(

Not fit to govern. In the up coming Council elections please reject these charlatans
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 10, 2019, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2019, 11:59:02 AM
Also all of them walked out en masse when that SiF stuff was talked about :(

Absolute jokers.

I don't want to be too melodramatic with this but the robotic nature of their followers on social media is very unnerving at times. Reminds me of infamous regimes we have seen down through history.
It is a worrying trend and if you dare disagree with them they attack you with a pack mentality which is quite viscous.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2019, 01:29:58 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 10, 2019, 09:48:00 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 10, 2019, 07:33:57 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2019, 08:33:04 PM
I see in the latest Sinn Fein/DUP carve up the Belfast City councillors voted down channelling the £500k to an anti-poverty initiative so it could be given to Feile, so we can safely assume Jackie McDonald and his cohort of "community workers" will be getting a similar rate payer funded windfall soon, with Sinn Féin's full backing.

They don't even try to hide it any more.

Maybe with global warming we can grow bananas.


They know they can do it unchallenged and will all be voted back in and can continue to do it, maybe raise a few strategic green/orange sham fights towards election time

Yup. That about sums it all up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on January 10, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 10, 2019, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2019, 11:59:02 AM
Also all of them walked out en masse when that SiF stuff was talked about :(

Absolute jokers.

I don't want to be too melodramatic with this but the robotic nature of their followers on social media is very unnerving at times. Reminds me of infamous regimes we have seen down through history.
It is a worrying trend and if you dare disagree with them they attack you with a pack mentality which is quite viscous.
Indeed - thick.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 10, 2019, 02:36:19 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 10, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 10, 2019, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2019, 11:59:02 AM
Also all of them walked out en masse when that SiF stuff was talked about :(

Absolute jokers.

I don't want to be too melodramatic with this but the robotic nature of their followers on social media is very unnerving at times. Reminds me of infamous regimes we have seen down through history.
It is a worrying trend and if you dare disagree with them they attack you with a pack mentality which is quite viscous.
Indeed - thick.

Lol. Ok ok. Stop stirring the pot.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 10, 2019, 03:04:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 10, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 10, 2019, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2019, 11:59:02 AM
Also all of them walked out en masse when that SiF stuff was talked about :(

Absolute jokers.

I don't want to be too melodramatic with this but the robotic nature of their followers on social media is very unnerving at times. Reminds me of infamous regimes we have seen down through history.
It is a worrying trend and if you dare disagree with them they attack you with a pack mentality which is quite viscous.
Indeed - thick.

Very true. I disagreed with Patrice Hardy and she unleashed these twitter bots on me. Very unnerving indeed. Quite ironic given what she was complaining about during the week.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2019, 12:30:12 AM
I actually think we'll see an end to Sinn Fein/DUP in the next 30/40 years and parties like Alliance and SDLP will come to the fore as the younger generation get away from the green and orange politics . . . Possibly not the SDLP but parties with no baggage and no axe to grind and sure they'll be like other political parties with their many flaws but they have to be a damn sight better than what we have right now!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2019, 12:33:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 11, 2019, 12:30:12 AM
I actually think we'll see an end to Sinn Fein/DUP in the next 30/40 years

We certainly will. There won't be any union or unionists parties in 40 years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2019, 04:16:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2019, 12:33:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 11, 2019, 12:30:12 AM
I actually think we'll see an end to Sinn Fein/DUP in the next 30/40 years

We certainly will. There won't be any union or unionists parties in 40 years.

The DUP are going to pay for their dance with the Brexit devil regardless of how it pans out

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/civil-servants-asked-to-volunteer-to-man-75-crisis-filling-stations-across-northern-ireland-1-8765757
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2019, 09:48:14 AM
None in Derry ::)
Is it true that most of the oil in Donegal and North Connacht comes in through Derry?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: markl121 on January 11, 2019, 11:00:49 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 10, 2019, 03:04:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 10, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 10, 2019, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2019, 11:59:02 AM
Also all of them walked out en masse when that SiF stuff was talked about :(

Absolute jokers.

I don't want to be too melodramatic with this but the robotic nature of their followers on social media is very unnerving at times. Reminds me of infamous regimes we have seen down through history.
It is a worrying trend and if you dare disagree with them they attack you with a pack mentality which is quite viscous.
Indeed - thick.

Very true. I disagreed with Patrice Hardy and she unleashed these twitter bots on me. Very unnerving indeed. Quite ironic given what she was complaining about during the week.
This is the kind of thing I was talking about, it's almist like an automated response
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 11, 2019, 11:58:42 AM
Quote from: markl121 on January 11, 2019, 11:00:49 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 10, 2019, 03:04:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 10, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Sheugh Water on January 10, 2019, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2019, 11:59:02 AM
Also all of them walked out en masse when that SiF stuff was talked about :(

Absolute jokers.

I don't want to be too melodramatic with this but the robotic nature of their followers on social media is very unnerving at times. Reminds me of infamous regimes we have seen down through history.
It is a worrying trend and if you dare disagree with them they attack you with a pack mentality which is quite viscous.
Indeed - thick.

Very true. I disagreed with Patrice Hardy and she unleashed these twitter bots on me. Very unnerving indeed. Quite ironic given what she was complaining about during the week.
This is the kind of thing I was talking about, it's almist like an automated response

Yep, very strange
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 11, 2019, 12:08:54 PM
I know what yous are on about, but by the look of this forum and a lot of others over the last week, it seems like FF and the SDLP aren't too short of bots themselves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on January 11, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 11, 2019, 12:08:54 PM
I know what yous are on about, but by the look of this forum and a lot of others over the last week, it seems like FF and the SDLP aren't too short of bots themselves.

So anyone that disagrees with, for example, SF & DUP carving up £500k of public money for themselves you are an SDLP bot? Got it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 11, 2019, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 11, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 11, 2019, 12:08:54 PM
I know what yous are on about, but by the look of this forum and a lot of others over the last week, it seems like FF and the SDLP aren't too short of bots themselves.

So anyone that disagrees with, for example, SF & DUP carving up £500k of public money for themselves you are an SDLP bot? Got it
Ah thats not what I said now is it? ;D Jesus Christ you must have missed the countless examples of anyone expressing the slightest support for SF being labelled a Sinnerbot.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 23, 2019, 08:24:31 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46980151 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46980151)

Man correctly points out that Leaders of parties who are women won't work together. SF's response, you're sexist.

You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 23, 2019, 09:28:11 PM
Caoimhe Archibald. Ffs the only reason she is in a job is coz the party deliberately gave her biggest part of the constituency. Because they wanted to promote a woman
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sheugh Water on January 24, 2019, 10:04:46 PM
Maduro. Mmm
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on February 10, 2019, 10:37:51 PM
4 of the 11 Irish MEPs (Sinn Féin MEPs Lynn Boylan, Liadh Ní Riada & Matt Carthy & independent MEP Brian Crowley) will not disclose the amount they claim in allowances. They are entitled to salaries & allowances worth €250,000+ annually.

::)  ::)  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 13, 2019, 10:51:36 PM
Jim allister is on Nolan spouting false facts regarding the economics of a united Ireland and O Muilleoir lets him away with it!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 20, 2019, 09:34:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2019, 09:34:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.
What???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 20, 2019, 10:25:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2019, 09:34:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

I think the comment must be taken in context - not by the 1 line 'Nolan' soundbite.  She was interviewed after a meeting about the situation when 'new information' has suddenly came to light re: legacy cases.  Each time there seems to some closure, new evidence is suddenly found.  Clearly the police, especially the top management are not willing to put everything on the table.  People are angry about this, but not surprised.

The question for nationalists is, has anything really changed?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on February 20, 2019, 10:42:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2019, 09:34:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

You're some clown  ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 11:12:29 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2019, 10:25:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2019, 09:34:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

I think the comment must be taken in context - not by the 1 line 'Nolan' soundbite.  She was interviewed after a meeting about the situation when 'new information' has suddenly came to light re: legacy cases.  Each time there seems to some closure, new evidence is suddenly found.  Clearly the police, especially the top management are not willing to put everything on the table.  People are angry about this, but not surprised.

The question for nationalists is, has anything really changed?
Leave aside concerns about collusion and potential cover ups. In terms of a selection process you can not issue a sweeping statement such as this. Complicity in cover ups or obstructing the Ombudsman can be teased out during the selection process and can be considered as evidence of suitability or otherwise at that juncture, to make a sweeping statement such as this makes it extremely difficult for SF reps to participate in the selection process and that is regrettable. As for change in the PSNI there is still a way to go but that will take time and the retirement of the RUC elements. It is not helped by SF or any party politicising policing and putting young nationalists off joining. That plays into unionist hands. The Police federation should address the pro RUC and pro Unionist stance it takes also before having a go at Mary Lou, they are also an obstacle, m just look at their crest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 20, 2019, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 11:12:29 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2019, 10:25:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2019, 09:34:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

I think the comment must be taken in context - not by the 1 line 'Nolan' soundbite.  She was interviewed after a meeting about the situation when 'new information' has suddenly came to light re: legacy cases.  Each time there seems to some closure, new evidence is suddenly found.  Clearly the police, especially the top management are not willing to put everything on the table.  People are angry about this, but not surprised.

The question for nationalists is, has anything really changed?
Leave aside concerns about collusion and potential cover ups. In terms of a selection process you can not issue a sweeping statement such as this. Complicity in cover ups or obstructing the Ombudsman can be teased out during the selection process and can be considered as evidence of suitability or otherwise at that juncture, to make a sweeping statement such as this makes it extremely difficult for SF reps to participate in the selection process and that is regrettable. As for change in the PSNI there is still a way to go but that will take time and the retirement of the RUC elements. It is not helped by SF or any party politicising policing and putting young nationalists off joining. That plays into unionist hands. The Police federation should address the pro RUC and pro Unionist stance it takes also before having a go at Mary Lou, they are also an obstacle, m just look at their crest.

I think her point is valid especially after the meeting she had re; legacy.  Stumbling block after stumbling block has been put in the way - some over 30 years so I will raise raise raise the question again: has anything changed in regards to policing and the past?  They, in my opinion, are not capable of dealing with these issues. 

Are there any nationalists who disagree with me? 

This old ' things are improving' and 'it'll take a bit more time' etc. don't was with me.  We either stay the same or get a new era to policing.  After last weeks findings about Sean Graham's etc. , it's clear to me which it is.

Mc Donald was basically asking 'has the psni changed? 

Answers on a postcard!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on February 20, 2019, 12:03:23 PM
But Sinn Fein's vote could never make a difference in Parliament  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2019, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 11:12:29 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2019, 10:25:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2019, 09:34:42 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

I think the comment must be taken in context - not by the 1 line 'Nolan' soundbite.  She was interviewed after a meeting about the situation when 'new information' has suddenly came to light re: legacy cases.  Each time there seems to some closure, new evidence is suddenly found.  Clearly the police, especially the top management are not willing to put everything on the table.  People are angry about this, but not surprised.

The question for nationalists is, has anything really changed?
Leave aside concerns about collusion and potential cover ups. In terms of a selection process you can not issue a sweeping statement such as this. Complicity in cover ups or obstructing the Ombudsman can be teased out during the selection process and can be considered as evidence of suitability or otherwise at that juncture, to make a sweeping statement such as this makes it extremely difficult for SF reps to participate in the selection process and that is regrettable. As for change in the PSNI there is still a way to go but that will take time and the retirement of the RUC elements. It is not helped by SF or any party politicising policing and putting young nationalists off joining. That plays into unionist hands. The Police federation should address the pro RUC and pro Unionist stance it takes also before having a go at Mary Lou, they are also an obstacle, m just look at their crest.

I think her point is valid especially after the meeting she had re; legacy.  Stumbling block after stumbling block has been put in the way - some over 30 years so I will raise raise raise the question again: has anything changed in regards to policing and the past?  They, in my opinion, are not capable of dealing with these issues. 

Are there any nationalists who disagree with me? 

This old ' things are improving' and 'it'll take a bit more time' etc. don't was with me.  We either stay the same or get a new era to policing.  After last weeks findings about Sean Graham's etc. , it's clear to me which it is.

Mc Donald was basically asking 'has the psni changed? 

Answers on a postcard!!
Yes a lot has changed in policing, if you care to look carefully. I repeat some of the concerns Mary Lou raises are legitimate, but this comment politicises the recruitment process and has the potential to discriminate against officers who may well be capable and have had nothing to do with her issues.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 20, 2019, 09:45:19 PM
Take that clown bck down south. She got no understanding of the norths politics. She actually guaranteed the nxt chief pc will come from the existing psni.. Idiot! Doesnt seem to have even the basic understanding of fair employment law.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Aaron Boone on February 20, 2019, 11:54:35 PM
You have be a serious spoon nowadays to be Asst Chief Constable or Asst Commissioner. They do Masters degrees in Policing, often in America, you've been a rising star for years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 21, 2019, 07:53:51 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 20, 2019, 09:45:19 PM
Take that clown bck down south. She got no understanding of the norths politics. She actually guaranteed the nxt chief pc will come from the existing psni.. Idiot! Doesnt seem to have even the basic understanding of fair employment law.

Well that's a very partitionist statement. Sdlp voter?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 21, 2019, 09:28:47 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 20, 2019, 11:54:35 PM
You have be a serious spoon nowadays to be Asst Chief Constable or Asst Commissioner. They do Masters degrees in Policing, often in America, you've been a rising star for years.

These Masters degrees in Policing evidently don't prevent ineptitude to be the norm under your watch.


Does anyone seriously believe that the PSNI "mislaid" these documents relation to the massacre at Sean Grahams bookmakers more than once yet were somehow found when preparing for a civil proceedings.
The one bad apple in the barrell mantra churned out about collusion should be well and truly put to bed, it was/is systematic in the PSNI.

Mary Lou was right to voice her misgivings about the currently batch lining up within the PSNI for the top job.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2019, 10:23:59 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-most-dublin-politicians-have-no-understanding-of-northern-ireland-1.3800328

Newton Emerson: Most Dublin politicians have no understanding of Northern Ireland
Southerners can be as bad as the British when it comes to grasping North's new reality
about 5 hours ago

Newton Emerson

9


Fianna Fáil Senator Mark Daly commissioned a poll in which 500 people in the Republic were told Northern Ireland requires no subsidy and then asked if they would like to see a united Ireland, to which 73 per cent said yes.
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Sympathy is due to Northern nationalists after the latest report from Fianna Fáil Senator Mark Daly. Last July, while still a member of the joint Oireachtas committee on the Belfast Agreement, Daly produced what he grandly titled "research" claiming Northern Ireland's £10 billion annual subsidy is an accounting mistake and the actual figure is zero. This claim was so preposterous even Sinn Féin was reluctant to cite it.

Last November, Daly commissioned a poll in which 500 people in the Republic were told Northern Ireland requires no subsidy then asked if they would like to see a united Ireland, to which 73 per cent said yes.
Now the Senator has produced another report, again grandly titled "research", claiming a hard Border and a "rushed border poll" are both equally certain to provoke violence and the only way to avoid this is to develop a shared Northern Ireland identity and society through, first and foremost, integrated education.
Taken together, Daly's efforts constitute a near parody of Northern nationalism's cynicism about Southern commitment to unification: namely, that a united Ireland is a great idea as long as it costs nothing and Northerners sort out all their differences before anyone even thinks of holding a vote on it.

Senator Daly is not alone in making this painfully apparent. Statements on Brexit and a border poll from the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the leadership of Fianna Fáil have all conveyed exactly the same message in only slightly less gauche terms. It is a Free State prayer of St Augustine: Lord make me whole, but not yet.

British politicians have been widely derided since the EU referendum for not understanding Northern Ireland. Most Dublin politicians are no better. They may be aware of the sea-change in nationalist attitudes over the past two years but they have barely grasped the thinking behind it.

Blue Billywig Video PlayerThe peace process presented nationalists with a political quandary. If Northern Ireland ceased to be a "failed entity", that might make a united Ireland less pressing. Conversely, if nationalists declined to throw themselves wholeheartedly into making Northern Ireland work, its failure could be seen as their fault and call their commitment to peace into question.
•   Newton Emerson: Can the DUP sell its Brexit backstop climbdown?
•   Newton Emerson: Irish and EU must stop ridiculing Border technology
•   Newton Emerson: Can Irish America throw a spanner in the works of Brexit?

BREXIT: The Facts
Read them here
In the years after the 2007 St Andrew's Agreement this trap appeared to have been sprung. The nationalist share of the vote declined steadily as DUP-Sinn Féin government bedded in.
People spoke more openly of a Northern Ireland identity, undeterred by nationalist complaints that it was a unionist contrivance or a British plot. In retrospect, the low point occurred in 2013, when US president Barack Obama gave a speech in Belfast calling for integrated education and comparing the religious division of children to the racially segregated schools of pre-civil rights America.
United Ireland

It was clear from his speech that, like Daly, Obama favoured a united Ireland and
saw the building of a united Northern Ireland as its essential prerequisite. However, nationalists were so aghast the US consulate in Belfast was forced to issue a clarification that the president was not opposed to Catholic schools.
For many Catholics, those schools are the foundation of their distinct cultural Irishness. To deny them that within Northern Ireland would be enforced assimilation.
In my opinion, which I can apparently call research, nationalists are still mistaken
Obama made the same point as late as April 2016, in a speech in London, when he also referred to "forging a new identity that is about being from Northern Ireland."

The Brexit vote two months later, and the RHI scandal that quickly followed, changed everything. Nationalists now see themselves as freed from the trap – they are under no obligation to make Northern Ireland work if unionists and the British government have broken it.

This has moved us beyond the assumption, still evident in Dublin, that everything can go back to normal if a hard Border is avoided. The extent of nationalist relief at their political absolution should not be underestimated.
Peaceful future
In my opinion, which I can apparently call research, nationalists are still mistaken. A functioning Northern Ireland, including devolution, remains essential for a peaceful future either within the UK or for the transition to a united Ireland.

However, this case can no longer be made with the traditional platitudes emanating from the Republic. Fresh thinking is required, along with new intervention from the British and Irish governments. Nationalists will settle for nothing less.
Among the most challenging matters to consider is whether we are approaching the point where a border poll might assist stability, or at least do more good than harm.
Nationalism is going for broke with a headcount vision of unity, and has convinced itself amid the Brexit hysteria that it can win. It cannot – its vote in both elections since the EU referendum was 42 per cent. Unionism last polled 49 per cent.
Establishing that baseline could be necessary, not to defeat nationalism but to demonstrate to unionists and nationalists how finely balanced both communities are, and why Northern Ireland must be shared to secure anyone's constitutional aspiration.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 21, 2019, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 21, 2019, 09:28:47 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 20, 2019, 11:54:35 PM
You have be a serious spoon nowadays to be Asst Chief Constable or Asst Commissioner. They do Masters degrees in Policing, often in America, you've been a rising star for years.

These Masters degrees in Policing evidently don't prevent ineptitude to be the norm under your watch.


Does anyone seriously believe that the PSNI "mislaid" these documents relation to the massacre at Sean Grahams bookmakers more than once yet were somehow found when preparing for a civil proceedings.
The one bad apple in the barrell mantra churned out about collusion should be well and truly put to bed, it was/is systematic in the PSNI.

Mary Lou was right to voice her misgivings about the currently batch lining up within the PSNI for the top job.

+1
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2019, 11:47:40 AM
I read somewhere earlier that only 8 of the 68 top PSNI officers are from a Catholic/Nationalist background?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on February 21, 2019, 01:02:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 21, 2019, 11:47:40 AM
I read somewhere earlier that only 8 of the 68 top PSNI officers are from a Catholic/Nationalist background?

The percentage of catholics in the PSNI is around 30% I think so no great surprise
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: TabClear on February 21, 2019, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 21, 2019, 01:02:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 21, 2019, 11:47:40 AM
I read somewhere earlier that only 8 of the 68 top PSNI officers are from a Catholic/Nationalist background?

The percentage of catholics in the PSNI is around 30% I think so no great surprise

Plus serious catholic recruitment only really happened from early/mid 2000s onwards so you would expect that percentage to be even lower as you go up the age profiles in the ranks. The early recruits are probably only now considered experienced enough to be viable options for the really senior roles.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 21, 2019, 06:39:48 PM
Until SF allow recruits live in their own community the PSNI will continue to struggle to recruit Catholics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 21, 2019, 08:25:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 21, 2019, 06:39:48 PM
Until SF allow recruits live in their own community the PSNI will continue to struggle to recruit Catholics.

When does SF ever stop them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 21, 2019, 09:30:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 21, 2019, 06:39:48 PM
Until SF allow recruits live in their own community the PSNI will continue to struggle to recruit Catholics.

What does this mean? Clarify please.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 22, 2019, 09:03:20 AM
There are a number of issues surrounding policing that the nationalist community need to address and it isn't good enough for SF reps to snipe from the side. The only way we will get Catholic recruitment in the police up to the requisite level is if as a community we fully embrace policing. That means accepting that there are people within it's ranks who's agenda, politics and outlook are at odds with ours, that means accepting that the RUC means something to the unionists and by extension some police officers. It means like Gerry and Martin with the 'RA change can only come within. It would be unthinkable if a Garda from Buncranna was forced to live in St Johnston and sneak home to visit family, so why is it acceptable for a police officer from Derry to have to move away and keep his occupation secret? Yes the hierarchy within the PSNI and the Federation need to become more inclusive but step by step. SF need to give leadership.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 22, 2019, 11:35:43 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 22, 2019, 09:03:20 AM
There are a number of issues surrounding policing that the nationalist community need to address and it isn't good enough for SF reps to snipe from the side. The only way we will get Catholic recruitment in the police up to the requisite level is if as a community we fully embrace policing. That means accepting that there are people within it's ranks who's agenda, politics and outlook are at odds with ours, that means accepting that the RUC means something to the unionists and by extension some police officers. It means like Gerry and Martin with the 'RA change can only come within. It would be unthinkable if a Garda from Buncranna was forced to live in St Johnston and sneak home to visit family, so why is it acceptable for a police officer from Derry to have to move away and keep his occupation secret? Yes the hierarchy within the PSNI and the Federation need to become more inclusive but step by step. SF need to give leadership.

Don't think Martin and Gerry and the 'Ra are the problem, moreso the dissidents prevalent in certain areas still.
Martin McGuinness in particular could not have been clearer on this around the time of the murder of Ronan Kerr IIRC.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 22, 2019, 12:10:08 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2019, 11:35:43 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 22, 2019, 09:03:20 AM
There are a number of issues surrounding policing that the nationalist community need to address and it isn't good enough for SF reps to snipe from the side. The only way we will get Catholic recruitment in the police up to the requisite level is if as a community we fully embrace policing. That means accepting that there are people within it's ranks who's agenda, politics and outlook are at odds with ours, that means accepting that the RUC means something to the unionists and by extension some police officers. It means like Gerry and Martin with the 'RA change can only come within. It would be unthinkable if a Garda from Buncranna was forced to live in St Johnston and sneak home to visit family, so why is it acceptable for a police officer from Derry to have to move away and keep his occupation secret? Yes the hierarchy within the PSNI and the Federation need to become more inclusive but step by step. SF need to give leadership.

Don't think Martin and Gerry and the 'Ra are the problem, moreso the dissidents prevalent in certain areas still.
Martin McGuinness in particular could not have been clearer on this around the time of the murder of Ronan Kerr IIRC.
We could do more as a community to support catholic officers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 22, 2019, 01:33:24 PM
SF have supported policing and justice for over an decade now. They took the hard decision, even when a large section of the nationalist community was against it. But they dragged us along because it was the right thing to do.

They have condemned attacks on police officers unequivocally and without hesitation since then.

Of course, there are those who will exploit anything for political opportunism and will never be happy with anything SF do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 24, 2019, 10:30:55 AM
If you want to imagine an Ireland with SF in power cast an eye towards Venezuela.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on February 24, 2019, 11:24:17 AM
And they would claim to be the party that made everyone in the country a millionaire.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 25, 2019, 11:22:34 AM
Liam Adams: Convicted sex offender who raped daughter dies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47280312 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47280312)

Much like the Catholic Church - The IRA protected and covered up abuse to protect good republicans.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2019, 11:00:02 AM
Very interesting


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-stakeknife-case-will-cut-into-comforting-narratives-1.3737247
The Stakeknife story began opening people's eyes to a more complicated vista, where the security forces had not so much infiltrated paramilitaries as managed them, cultivating and protecting leaderships they could do business with as everyone inched towards the peace process – a process far longer and bloodier than its visible culmination in the Belfast Agreement
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 28, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2019, 11:00:02 AM
Very interesting


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-stakeknife-case-will-cut-into-comforting-narratives-1.3737247
The Stakeknife story began opening people's eyes to a more complicated vista, where the security forces had not so much infiltrated paramilitaries as managed them, cultivating and protecting leaderships they could do business with as everyone inched towards the peace process – a process far longer and bloodier than its visible culmination in the Belfast Agreement

Been trying to make this point for a long time. The IRA were more or less in cohorts with British Army and British Government. Colluding with them. Giving up lower ranked members in order to keep cover on the very, very senior IRA members in public and not so public roles and also good decent republicans around border areas.
Remember the IRA tortured and intimidated their own so called communities far more than loyalists or the British.

Could be awkward for Sinn Fein and some senior members of the IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on February 28, 2019, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 28, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2019, 11:00:02 AM
Very interesting


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-stakeknife-case-will-cut-into-comforting-narratives-1.3737247
The Stakeknife story began opening people's eyes to a more complicated vista, where the security forces had not so much infiltrated paramilitaries as managed them, cultivating and protecting leaderships they could do business with as everyone inched towards the peace process – a process far longer and bloodier than its visible culmination in the Belfast Agreement

Been trying to make this point for a long time. The IRA were more or less in cohorts with British Army and British Government. Colluding with them. Giving up lower ranked members in order to keep cover on the very, very senior IRA members in public and not so public roles and also good decent republicans around border areas.
Remember the IRA tortured and intimidated their own so called communities far more than loyalists or the British.

Could be awkward for Sinn Fein and some senior members of the IRA.

Depends if you consider murder of civilians in those communities a form or torture and intimidation or not I suppose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 28, 2019, 01:34:27 PM
Quote from: tiempo on February 28, 2019, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 28, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2019, 11:00:02 AM
Very interesting


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-stakeknife-case-will-cut-into-comforting-narratives-1.3737247
The Stakeknife story began opening people's eyes to a more complicated vista, where the security forces had not so much infiltrated paramilitaries as managed them, cultivating and protecting leaderships they could do business with as everyone inched towards the peace process – a process far longer and bloodier than its visible culmination in the Belfast Agreement

Been trying to make this point for a long time. The IRA were more or less in cohorts with British Army and British Government. Colluding with them. Giving up lower ranked members in order to keep cover on the very, very senior IRA members in public and not so public roles and also good decent republicans around border areas.
Remember the IRA tortured and intimidated their own so called communities far more than loyalists or the British.

Could be awkward for Sinn Fein and some senior members of the IRA.

Depends if you consider murder of civilians in those communities a form or torture and intimidation or not I suppose.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/patsy-gillespies-widow-tells-of-pain-over-bomb-tweet-37402599.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/patsy-gillespies-widow-tells-of-pain-over-bomb-tweet-37402599.html)
http://thedisappearedni.co.uk/ (http://thedisappearedni.co.uk/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_McCartney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_McCartney)

Protecting the community.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on February 28, 2019, 08:39:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 28, 2019, 01:34:27 PM
Quote from: tiempo on February 28, 2019, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 28, 2019, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2019, 11:00:02 AM
Very interesting


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-stakeknife-case-will-cut-into-comforting-narratives-1.3737247
The Stakeknife story began opening people's eyes to a more complicated vista, where the security forces had not so much infiltrated paramilitaries as managed them, cultivating and protecting leaderships they could do business with as everyone inched towards the peace process – a process far longer and bloodier than its visible culmination in the Belfast Agreement

Been trying to make this point for a long time. The IRA were more or less in cohorts with British Army and British Government. Colluding with them. Giving up lower ranked members in order to keep cover on the very, very senior IRA members in public and not so public roles and also good decent republicans around border areas.
Remember the IRA tortured and intimidated their own so called communities far more than loyalists or the British.

Could be awkward for Sinn Fein and some senior members of the IRA.

Depends if you consider murder of civilians in those communities a form or torture and intimidation or not I suppose.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/patsy-gillespies-widow-tells-of-pain-over-bomb-tweet-37402599.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/patsy-gillespies-widow-tells-of-pain-over-bomb-tweet-37402599.html)
http://thedisappearedni.co.uk/ (http://thedisappearedni.co.uk/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_McCartney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_McCartney)

Protecting the community.

800 years
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on March 01, 2019, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

Heres a good one for ye bass - Sinn Fein are not elected to act in the best interests of the Northern Ireland state or the British government but merely to facilitate its dissolution and the creation of a reunified Ireland. They are elected to do that and making a tremendous job of it, mind you there's probably some who would say it amounts to torture and intimidation of their own so called communities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 01, 2019, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: tiempo on March 01, 2019, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

Heres a good one for ye bass - Sinn Fein are not elected to act in the best interests of the Northern Ireland state or the British government but merely to facilitate its dissolution and the creation of a reunified Ireland. They are elected to do that and making a tremendous job of it, mind you there's probably some who would say it amounts to torture and intimidation of their own so called communities.

That may be the case, but they're happy to take the money though. Pigs in the trough.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on March 01, 2019, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: tiempo on March 01, 2019, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

Heres a good one for ye bass - Sinn Fein are not elected to act in the best interests of the Northern Ireland state or the British government but merely to facilitate its dissolution and the creation of a reunified Ireland. They are elected to do that and making a tremendous job of it, mind you there's probably some who would say it amounts to torture and intimidation of their own so called communities.

That may be the case, but they're happy to take the money though. Pigs in the trough.

Content I'm sure, happy when they achieve their stated aim I would imagine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on March 01, 2019, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: tiempo on March 01, 2019, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

Heres a good one for ye bass - Sinn Fein are not elected to act in the best interests of the Northern Ireland state or the British government but merely to facilitate its dissolution and the creation of a reunified Ireland. They are elected to do that and making a tremendous job of it, mind you there's probably some who would say it amounts to torture and intimidation of their own so called communities.

Class . You were owned there trailer you wee unemployed lazy benefit sponging spoofer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on March 05, 2019, 04:30:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.
[/quote

Utter tosser
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on March 05, 2019, 09:10:24 PM
Quote from: red hander on March 05, 2019, 04:30:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.
[/quote

Utter t**ser

Heard a few scum bags from the DUP at similar craic. Figures.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2019, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 05, 2019, 09:10:24 PM
Quote from: red hander on March 05, 2019, 04:30:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.
[/quote

Utter t**ser

Heard a few scum bags from the DUP at similar craic. Figures.

It's his f**king name!
Care to address the point?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on March 05, 2019, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

Martin Millar????

OMG - Are you in the TUV?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2019, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.

It's his f**king name!
Care to address the point?

You don't get to decide what his "f**king name" is. You display the same characteristics of the worst vestiges of old school unionism - a supremicist attitude (to the point of feeling entitled to tell someone they are wrong about their own name), and a level of deeply rooted bitterness and intolerance and just sheer pettiness that you feel compelled to translate someone's Irish name into English before using it. You have placed yourself firmly in the same category as Nelson, Gregory and Jim. Well done.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 07, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2019, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.

It's his f**king name!
Care to address the point?

You don't get to decide what his "f**king name" is. You display the same characteristics of the worst vestiges of old school unionism - a supremicist attitude (to the point of feeling entitled to tell someone they are wrong about their own name), and a level of deeply rooted bitterness and intolerance and just sheer pettiness that you feel compelled to translate someone's Irish name into English before using it. You have placed yourself firmly in the same category as Nelson, Gregory and Jim. Well done.

You display all the characteristics of a stalker mate.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 07, 2019, 10:16:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 07, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2019, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.

It's his f**king name!
Care to address the point?

You don't get to decide what his "f**king name" is. You display the same characteristics of the worst vestiges of old school unionism - a supremicist attitude (to the point of feeling entitled to tell someone they are wrong about their own name), and a level of deeply rooted bitterness and intolerance and just sheer pettiness that you feel compelled to translate someone's Irish name into English before using it. You have placed yourself firmly in the same category as Nelson, Gregory and Jim. Well done.

You display all the characteristics of a stalker mate.
When you try so hard to get attention don't complain when it comes your way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 10:29:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 07, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2019, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.

It's his f**king name!
Care to address the point?

You don't get to decide what his "f**king name" is. You display the same characteristics of the worst vestiges of old school unionism - a supremicist attitude (to the point of feeling entitled to tell someone they are wrong about their own name), and a level of deeply rooted bitterness and intolerance and just sheer pettiness that you feel compelled to translate someone's Irish name into English before using it. You have placed yourself firmly in the same category as Nelson, Gregory and Jim. Well done.

You display all the characteristics of a stalker mate.
A quick glance at my post history shows that this week I have replied to you only twice (both in this thread) and before that haven't engaged with you whatsoever since October. Stalker? Really?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 07, 2019, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 10:29:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 07, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2019, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.

It's his f**king name!
Care to address the point?

You don't get to decide what his "f**king name" is. You display the same characteristics of the worst vestiges of old school unionism - a supremicist attitude (to the point of feeling entitled to tell someone they are wrong about their own name), and a level of deeply rooted bitterness and intolerance and just sheer pettiness that you feel compelled to translate someone's Irish name into English before using it. You have placed yourself firmly in the same category as Nelson, Gregory and Jim. Well done.

You display all the characteristics of a stalker mate.
A quick glance at my post history shows that this week I have replied to you only twice (both in this thread) and before that haven't engaged with you whatsoever since October. Stalker? Really?

Ok - you're a stalker who likes to take a wee holidays.
You need to relax. You're getting all worked up over what name someone calls a millionaire on the internet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 10:58:45 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 07, 2019, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 10:29:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 07, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2019, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.

It's his f**king name!
Care to address the point?

You don't get to decide what his "f**king name" is. You display the same characteristics of the worst vestiges of old school unionism - a supremicist attitude (to the point of feeling entitled to tell someone they are wrong about their own name), and a level of deeply rooted bitterness and intolerance and just sheer pettiness that you feel compelled to translate someone's Irish name into English before using it. You have placed yourself firmly in the same category as Nelson, Gregory and Jim. Well done.

You display all the characteristics of a stalker mate.
A quick glance at my post history shows that this week I have replied to you only twice (both in this thread) and before that haven't engaged with you whatsoever since October. Stalker? Really?

Ok - you're a stalker who likes to take a wee holidays.
You need to relax. You're getting all worked up over what name someone calls a millionaire on the internet.
No, I just despise bigotry. And by translating an Irish name into English before using it, you have aligned yourself with the small minded pettiness of the Gregory Campbells and Nelson McCauslands of this world. You have made it clear that you are a little intolerant bigot, and bigotry should always be challenged.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 07, 2019, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 10:58:45 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 07, 2019, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 10:29:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 07, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 07, 2019, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2019, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget.

Are you that much or a bitter, narrow minded, self-loathing Irishman, that you feel the need to translate his name to English? Absolutely warped.

It's his f**king name!
Care to address the point?

You don't get to decide what his "f**king name" is. You display the same characteristics of the worst vestiges of old school unionism - a supremicist attitude (to the point of feeling entitled to tell someone they are wrong about their own name), and a level of deeply rooted bitterness and intolerance and just sheer pettiness that you feel compelled to translate someone's Irish name into English before using it. You have placed yourself firmly in the same category as Nelson, Gregory and Jim. Well done.

You display all the characteristics of a stalker mate.
A quick glance at my post history shows that this week I have replied to you only twice (both in this thread) and before that haven't engaged with you whatsoever since October. Stalker? Really?

Ok - you're a stalker who likes to take a wee holidays.
You need to relax. You're getting all worked up over what name someone calls a millionaire on the internet.
No, I just despise bigotry. And by translating an Irish name into English before using it, you have aligned yourself with the small minded pettiness of the Gregory Campbells and Nelson McCauslands of this world. You have made it clear that you are a little intolerant bigot, and bigotry should always be challenged.

In your opinion.

You still never addressed the initial point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 07, 2019, 09:56:16 PM
Is he the only millionaire in local politics?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Carmen Stateside on March 07, 2019, 10:29:55 PM
Lads and lassies don't give trailer attention.  A gobshite of the highest order. And when yous quote the gonch it means my ignore function doesn't work!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 08, 2019, 11:03:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

You've just put yourself in the same bracket as Gregory Campbell.

And we all know the credence which people lend to his opinions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2019, 11:15:41 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 08, 2019, 11:03:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

You've just put yourself in the same bracket as Gregory Campbell.

And we all know the credence which people lend to his opinions.

Ok so I am Gregory Campbell or whatever, but what about SF editing Eastwood's speech? Was that petty? What bracket does that put SF in?

SF voters
(https://tv.bt.com/images/bird-box-river-hero-136431745276102601-181213090630.jpg)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 08, 2019, 01:45:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2019, 11:15:41 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 08, 2019, 11:03:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

You've just put yourself in the same bracket as Gregory Campbell.

And we all know the credence which people lend to his opinions.

Ok so I am Gregory Campbell or whatever, but what about SF editing Eastwood's speech? Was that petty? What bracket does that put SF in?

SF voters
(https://tv.bt.com/images/bird-box-river-hero-136431745276102601-181213090630.jpg)

SOUND THE WHATABOUTERY KLAXON!!!

The Eastwood cut was also petty by the way. Doesn't justify what you did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2019, 01:55:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2019, 01:45:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2019, 11:15:41 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 08, 2019, 11:03:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

You've just put yourself in the same bracket as Gregory Campbell.

And we all know the credence which people lend to his opinions.

Ok so I am Gregory Campbell or whatever, but what about SF editing Eastwood's speech? Was that petty? What bracket does that put SF in?

SF voters
(https://tv.bt.com/images/bird-box-river-hero-136431745276102601-181213090630.jpg)

SOUND THE WHATABOUTERY KLAXON!!!

The Eastwood cut was also petty by the way. Doesn't justify what you did.

OK so SF are now in the same bracket as Gregory Campbell and Nelson McCausland? I can hardly keep up with who is which bracket. Who is petty and who's not. Madness altogether.

(https://studiosol-a.akamaihd.net/letras/500x500/fotos/a/7/9/9/a799341d6f6a46ef28ccab1e748c686f.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 08, 2019, 02:04:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2019, 01:55:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2019, 01:45:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2019, 11:15:41 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 08, 2019, 11:03:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

You've just put yourself in the same bracket as Gregory Campbell.

And we all know the credence which people lend to his opinions.

Ok so I am Gregory Campbell or whatever, but what about SF editing Eastwood's speech? Was that petty? What bracket does that put SF in?

SF voters
(https://tv.bt.com/images/bird-box-river-hero-136431745276102601-181213090630.jpg)

SOUND THE WHATABOUTERY KLAXON!!!

The Eastwood cut was also petty by the way. Doesn't justify what you did.

OK so SF are now in the same bracket as Gregory Campbell and Nelson McCausland? I can hardly keep up with who is which bracket. Who is petty and who's not. Madness altogether.

(https://studiosol-a.akamaihd.net/letras/500x500/fotos/a/7/9/9/a799341d6f6a46ef28ccab1e748c686f.jpg)

They were when they put out that ridiculous video. The point still stands that you referred to Máirtín Ó Muilleoir as Martin Millar. A common tactic employed by certain bigoted unionist politicians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 08, 2019, 02:52:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2019, 11:15:41 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 08, 2019, 11:03:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 01, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on February 28, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Anyone see where they edited Eastwood's speech. Cut off the end of it.
Fairly stupid.

It was like something UKIP or the Leave campaign would have done.

Yesterday Martin Millar (Belfast Millionaire) criticised the NI budget. Remember when he has responsibility for setting a budget he failed to do so. He also voted to hand back welfare reform to the Tory gov.
But Sinn Féin insisted it was a "punishing austerity budget" imposed by the Conservative government with the support of the DUP.
Finance spokesperson Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said: "It exposes as sanctimonious, the claim by Theresa May in October of last year that 'austerity is over'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47402949)

You've just put yourself in the same bracket as Gregory Campbell.

And we all know the credence which people lend to his opinions.

Ok so I am Gregory Campbell or whatever, but what about SF editing Eastwood's speech? Was that petty? What bracket does that put SF in?

SF voters
(https://tv.bt.com/images/bird-box-river-hero-136431745276102601-181213090630.jpg)

When you put yourself on a par with that bigoted fool (and seem to happily admit it) you are not here to have any sort of meaningful discussion, you are here to wind people up.  Hence, you don't deserve to be engaged with.

But on this occasion, I'll make an exception as you seem to be getting very worked up about this video.

The answer is yes.  It was most definitely petty.  It puts SF in the petty bracket.

Happy now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2019, 09:27:25 PM
Voting by proxy in Foyle up to 17 times UK level

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/voting-by-proxy-in-foyle-up-to-17-times-uk-level-35860053.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/voting-by-proxy-in-foyle-up-to-17-times-uk-level-35860053.html)

Wonder why this is?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on March 13, 2019, 09:57:59 PM
f**k, you're one boring arsehole
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2019, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: red hander on March 13, 2019, 09:57:59 PM
f**k, you're one boring arsehole

Thank you for your insight.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 13, 2019, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2019, 09:27:25 PM
Voting by proxy in Foyle up to 17 times UK level

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/voting-by-proxy-in-foyle-up-to-17-times-uk-level-35860053.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/voting-by-proxy-in-foyle-up-to-17-times-uk-level-35860053.html)

Wonder why this is?

Ahhh there's nothing quite like a bitter stoop, is there?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 14, 2019, 08:39:41 AM
Only 169 SF majority in Foyle.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on March 14, 2019, 09:13:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2019, 08:39:41 AM
Only 169 SF majority in Foyle.
Id imagine that margin will be a lot wider the next time round
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 14, 2019, 09:15:16 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2019, 09:27:25 PM
Voting by proxy in Foyle up to 17 times UK level

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/voting-by-proxy-in-foyle-up-to-17-times-uk-level-35860053.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/voting-by-proxy-in-foyle-up-to-17-times-uk-level-35860053.html)

Wonder why this is?

Because everyone knew the poll was going to be a close run thing so one party did their utmost to get every single vote possible.

The other party didn't and now whinges about losing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sekibanki on March 14, 2019, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2019, 09:27:25 PM
Voting by proxy in Foyle up to 17 times UK level

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/voting-by-proxy-in-foyle-up-to-17-times-uk-level-35860053.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/voting-by-proxy-in-foyle-up-to-17-times-uk-level-35860053.html)

Wonder why this is?
Wonder what the emigration rate is in Derry relative to the rest of the UK? ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 14, 2019, 10:38:22 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 14, 2019, 09:13:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2019, 08:39:41 AM
Only 169 SF majority in Foyle.
Id imagine that margin will be a lot wider the next time round
Especially if there are candidates from SDLPFF and SDLPFG and Continuity SDLP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 17, 2019, 10:12:42 AM
https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/explanation-demanded-from-sinn-fein-leader-mary-lou-mcdonald-over-england-get-out-of-ireland-banner-37922299.html (https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/explanation-demanded-from-sinn-fein-leader-mary-lou-mcdonald-over-england-get-out-of-ireland-banner-37922299.html)

Apart from the fact it woefully inaccurate, it's also against Sinn Fein's respect and equality agenda.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on March 17, 2019, 10:38:16 AM
I think that statement sums SF up:

Sinn Fein continue to do their bit to ensure NI stays in the Union. Thanks Mary Lou. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2019, 10:46:21 AM
And the DUPUDA doing their bit to ensure a United Ireland.
Quare times indeed :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2019, 08:25:09 AM
Not SF but interesting nevertheless

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/the-life-and-crimes-of-dessie-o-hare-border-fox-1.3857421

The life and crimes of Dessie O'Hare, Border Fox

'When Dessie O'Hare turns up on your door demanding you pay up, his reputation alone would be enough to terrify most people'


about 15 hours ago


 
Conor Lally Security and Crime Editor

 

When Dessie O'Hare cut off the tops of two of Dr John O'Grady's fingers he used a hammer and chisel.

It was a savage attack ensuring he was depicted in the media as an especially crazed paramilitary – an INLA "mad dog" in the same vein as contemporary Dominic McGlinchey.

But he cut a very different figure sitting quietly on a bench outside the Special Criminal Court on Wednesday morning last week.

Now aged 62 and having developed interests in yoga and crafts, O'Hare has aged remarkably well. He was well groomed and smartly dressed.

He sat on his own on the landing of the Criminal Courts of Justice. The look of extreme worry on his face was the only aspect of his appearance to distinguish him from the plain clothes, middle-aged gardaí milling around.

It had been a while since the "Border Fox" had darkened the door of a courthouse -–31 years to be precise. Back then he was jailed for 40 years for his crimes against Dr O'Grady.

On Thursday he returned to hear his fate: a 10-year sentence with three suspended for the violent attempted eviction of a man and his family from their home in Co Dublin in 2015.
Dessie O'Hare (front left of the coffin) carrying the remains of gangland figure Eamon Kelly, who was shot dead near his home in Killester, Dublin, in 2012. Photograph: Colin Keegan, Collins, Dublin Dessie O'Hare (front left of the coffin) carrying the remains of gangland figure Eamon Kelly, who was shot dead near his home in Killester, Dublin, in 2012. Photograph: Colin Keegan, Collins, Dublin 
The court heard O'Hare told gardaí he was was working for businessman Jimmy Mansfield jnr when the gang assaulted and falsely imprisoned Martin Byrne who had worked for almost 20 years for the late Jim Mansfield snr. Mr Mansfield jnr has denied the claim.

While little has been heard of O'Hare since his release from prison in 2006, gardaí believe he has remained active in extortion and also applying menaces in collecting debts on behalf of people.
One Garda source said he was "something of an enforcer in the business world", called in by clients to lean on people for various reasons, mostly because they owed money.

"When Dessie O'Hare turns up on your door demanding you pay up, his reputation alone would be enough to terrify most people," said another Garda source.

O'Hare also ran a crafts business, using the skills he developed when in prison. He has made and sold items such as bodhráns, ceramics and wooden ornaments including clocks. All of his work features republican symbolism.

The bodhráns have featured mini-murals of terrorists and their deeds. His ceramics include Easter lilies stood over by a gunman with rifle and head bowed and his clocks feature hands in the colours of the Tricolour.

Dissident republicans

Living in Newtownhamilton, Co Armagh, in recent years, Garda sources say he has also done some farming for local people over the years, and had worked with people with disabilities on his release.

However, gardaí say he has also remained in contact with active dissident republicans, including those in the New IRA. And they say he was close to members of the main drugs gang in Finglas, Dublin, which was led by Marlo Hyland and Eamon Dunne, both since murdered.

He was also a close associate of gangland figure Eamon Kelly; carrying his coffin and speaking at his funeral in 2012 after Kelly (65) was shot dead outside his home in Killester, Dublin.
Dessie O'Hare leaving the Special Criminal Court, Dublin. Photograph: James Meehan Dessie O'Hare leaving the Special Criminal Court, Dublin. Photograph: James Meehan 
Back in 1988, O'Hare – dubbed the "Border Fox" for his ability to evade justice North and South – was jailed for two terms of imprisonment of 20 years, to be served consecutively, for the kidnapping of Dr O'Grady and mutilating him.

Related Dessie O'Hare jailed for seven years for assault and false imprisonment 
Dessie O'Hare's 40-year kidnap sentence cannot be reactivated 

The Special Criminal Court in 1988 said O'Hare must serve the full sentence. However, he was released from Castlerea Prison, Co Roscommon, on Thursday, April 13th, 2006, under the terms of the Belfast Agreement.

O'Hare was the last of the State's inmates to qualify for early release under the terms of the agreement.

He once shot at his wife when they argued over another man. And he was heavily involved in feuding within the INLA, and boasted to journalist Vincent Browne that he had been involved in the killings of 26 people.

Born on October 26th, 1956, O'Hare grew up in a strongly republican family in the Ballymacawley area of Keady, Co Armagh, and joined the Provisional IRA aged 16.

His grandmother served six months in a British prison for the offence of "keeping Republicans". O'Hare's father and six uncles were interned in the early 1940s, and one of his uncles died while interned on the Isle of Man.

Revolver

In February 1977, he was found with Colt .38 special revolver and five rounds of ammunition in Castleblayney, Co Monaghan. He claimed at the time he had the gun as he feared he would be snatched and taken across the Border into the North by the SAS. Claiming to be 17 years old at the time, it appears the authorities did not realise he was in fact aged 20.

O'Hare's barrister, Patrick MacEntee SC, argued to the court that if such a young man was sent to Portlaoise Prison he would be corrupted and radicalised. The court accepted the pointed and imposed a suspended sentence, though just 13 months later O'Hare repaid the court's confidence in him by trying to murder a groom at his wedding.

The British army's Gary Cass, a 23-year-old lieutenant at the time had just walked out of St Patrick's Church in Trim, Co Meath, after marrying when O'Hare and an accomplice shot him twice in a murder attempt.


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However, he was acquitted following a trial in which all the evidence was based on the visual identity of O'Hare, with the judge warning the jury that convictions on that evidence alone could be unsafe.

Just weeks later O'Hare was shot in the leg and hand in an IRA attack in south Armagh in which British soldiers were shot at on the street in Keady. This followed an attack on the nearby home off an off-duty prison officer, who returned fire with his legally-held firearm.
Eamon Kelly with Dessie O'Hare in Portlaoise prison in the 1980s. Photograph: Padraig O'Reilly. Eamon Kelly with Dessie O'Hare in Portlaoise prison in the 1980s. Photograph: Padraig O'Reilly. 
One of the men O'Hare was with was shot dead during the incidents, and the second, Eugene McNamee, was wounded. McNamee had been cleared alongside O'Hare of shooting the British soldier just after his wedding service.

Strained relationship

At the time he was shot in south Armagh in June 1979, O'Hare's relationship with the IRA was already strained. Indeed, from 1978 his allegiance appears to have switched back and forward between the south Armagh IRA and an INLA faction in the Dundalk area.

Less than four months after being shot and delivered to Monaghan Hospital in June 1979, O'Hare was shot again during another attack. This time, in October 1979, he and two other IRA men he was with were confronted by armed gardaí as they drove between Monaghan and Armagh in a car with a gun and ammunition.

They crashed into cattle in a field, and O'Hare ended up in hospital with two broken ankles and other injuries, while one of his accomplices was killed.

The following month he was brought before the Special Criminal Court and convicted for possession of the gun and bullets and sentenced to nine years.

At that time, November 1979, the RUC said after O'Hare's conviction that they wanted to speak to him in connection with 26 murders of members of the security forces.

At an appeal hearing he tried to escape by bolting quickly from the accused's bench in Cavan courthouse, jumping on to the clerk's desk and then on to a balcony where he tried to jump out a window before being restrained by gardaí.

Just before he was arrested in 1979 he had become engaged to Clare Doyle, from Co Armagh but living in Castleblayney. They married in Portlaoise Prison the following year and shortly afterwards their daughter was born.

On release from prison in 1986 he fell back in immediately with the INLA in Dundalk. However, some gardaí at the time believed O'Hare at some level intended to leave the country with his wife and daughter.

And they believed his primary motive for engaging in extortion, armed robberies and kidnapping at that time was not to raise money for the INLA's terrorism, but to access money he could use for himself – to leave Ireland and perhaps start a new life.

Fundraising reasons

A number of now retired gardaí suspect O'Hare may have kidnapped Dublin dentist John O'Grady for personal, rather than terrorist, fundraising reasons, though O'Hare insisted in media interviews years later that the money from the kidnapping was to go to the INLA.

On his release from jail he became involved in an intense INLA feud between factions in Dundalk and Belfast. In an interview with the Sunday Tribune, O'Hare admitted involvement in the feud, saying he had killed and tortured Monaghan victim Tony McCluskey, whose fingers are believed to have been cut off before he was shot dead.

"I did not want him to die lightly," O'Hare said, adding he had been determined to inflict "a hard death" on McCluskey.


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When Mary McGlinchey, the wife of INLA man Dominic McGlinchey, was shot dead while bathing her children, O'Hare effectively had control over the Dundalk INLA, which numbered about two dozen active terrorists at the time.

He appeared to enjoy his status; carrying out killings and bank robberies and evading justice. And when some of the media began calling him the Border Fox, he began referring to himself by this moniker when issuing statements to the Garda.

On October 13th, 1987, O'Hare led the INLA kidnapping of Dr O'Grady that would make him infamous and result in the longest fixed-term prison sentence ever handed down in the Republic for a non-capital murder offence.

The gang kidnapped Dr O'Grady from his home in Cabinteely, Dublin, having gone their looking for the victim's millionaire father-in-law Dr Austin Darragh. However, Dr Darragh had moved out, and O'Grady and his family took up residence in the house a number of years earlier.

The intention was to hold Dr Darragh hostage until a £1.5 million ransom was paid. In the end Dr O'Grady was held for 23 days; during which time the whole country watched in horror as the kidnap gang managed to evade gardaí and remain at large with their hostage.

Dr O'Grady was eventually freed from a house in Cabra, Dublin, where he was being held. Despite have portions of two fingers hacked off by O'Hare using a chisel while his associates pinned the dentist to the ground and stood on his arms, he resumed his dental practice in south Dublin.

Army sniper

O'Hare escaped the scene, but was later tracked down to Urlingford, Co Kilkenny, where he was shot by an Army sniper and one of his accomplices was shot dead.

During the 23-day Garda hunt for the gang, O'Hare and his INLA men had engaged in gunfire with gardaí several times before escaping.

After being jailed for 40 years for the O'Grady kidnapping and torture, O'Hare was realised in 2006 on licence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: MoChara on April 12, 2019, 08:55:39 AM
 I was at a wedding Dessie O'Hare was attending a few years back, it sounds mad but there was something disturbing about the intensity he clapped along with the Gareth Brooks impersonator   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 12, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: MoChara on April 12, 2019, 08:55:39 AM
I was at a wedding Dessie O'Hare was attending a few years back, it sounds mad but there was something disturbing about the intensity he clapped along with the Gareth Brooks impersonator   ;D ;D

L O f**ing L
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2019, 11:44:16 AM
Quote from: MoChara on April 12, 2019, 08:55:39 AM
I was at a wedding Dessie O'Hare was attending a few years back, it sounds mad but there was something disturbing about the intensity he clapped along with the Gareth Brooks impersonator   ;D ;D
He must be one of the few INLA heads still living
They were insanely violent

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/features/our-32-years-of-torment-searching-for-seamus-35709331.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2019, 03:25:15 PM
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/business/northern-ireland-electricity-grid-can-now-be-run-from-state-owned-dublin-control-room-1-8886757
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 30, 2019, 05:07:47 PM
Sinn Féin rapidly evaporating in the 26 after last week's elections.
Losing 2 of their 3 MEPs ( recount in South so small chance still) and around 70 Councillors.
Matt Carty calling for a root and branch review of where they went wrong.
Matt- start with ye're numpty of a "leader".

Just being against everything and complaining but offering nothing doesn't work.

Especially that there are less disgruntled people about with things improving. Coppinger and the likes gave that market cornered..

Also complaining about lack of housing while boasting about stopping housing developments
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 30, 2019, 05:19:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2019, 05:07:47 PM
Sinn Féin rapidly evaporating in the 26 after last week's elections.
Losing 2 of their 3 MEPs ( recount in South so small chance still) and around 70 Councillors.
Matt Carty calling for a root and branch review of where they went wrong.
Matt- start with ye're numpty of a "leader".

Just being against everything and complaining but offering nothing doesn't work.

Especially that there are less disgruntled people about with things improving. Coppinger and the likes gave that market cornered..

Also complaining about lack of housing while boasting about stopping housing developments

In the North too they have paid the price for abstentionism in Stormont. They can't ride two horses. If they want to govern in ROI they need to show they're willing to do so in NI.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on May 30, 2019, 05:42:42 PM
It's good enough for them. Useless shower of pricks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 30, 2019, 09:08:59 PM
I can think of alot of things that have went wrong...

Last few years they have been too wrapped up in identity politics. That stuff plays well in the under 25s and on social media, but not in the real world.
Poor leadership from the top.
Preaching about Palestine all the live long day to people in Ireland. Reinforces the stereotype that they are a protest party.
I also know the abortion stance caused real resentment in the party outside of Belfast and Dublin.

It's a shame about the loss of MEPs, they had our back in EU, but let's be honest, Dublin and London will decide our fate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 30, 2019, 09:25:06 PM
Tales of bullying; Councillors leaving the Party;  Not allowing a Conscience vote on the Abortion legislation losing Ó Tóibín as a result and giving rise to Aontú........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on May 30, 2019, 10:00:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 30, 2019, 09:08:59 PM
I can think of alot of things that have went wrong...

Last few years they have been too wrapped up in identity politics. That stuff plays well in the under 25s and on social media, but not in the real world.
Poor leadership from the top.
Preaching about Palestine all the live long day to people in Ireland. Reinforces the stereotype that they are a protest party.
I also know the abortion stance caused real resentment in the party outside of Belfast and Dublin.

It's a shame about the loss of MEPs, they had our back in EU, but let's be honest, Dublin and London will decide our fate.

What was Aontú's share of vote in south?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on May 31, 2019, 03:40:04 PM
Sinn Fein have a born leader in Pearse Doherty, but political correctness seems to have got in the way for now. Mary Lou, is a like able politician, but she just isn't leadership material. Thone yoke from Tyrone, I wince every time she opens her beak. Every time that PWL appears on TV it must cost them 1000 votes.
The biggest issue and one no one seems to be looking at this in depth, is that nationalists in the north just aren't bothering to vote. At a time when unionism is fracturing right in front of our eyes, the taigs have lost interest and can you really blame them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 07, 2019, 10:40:03 AM
Whenever Colum Eastwood said this SF layed into him pretty thick even going to as far as to produce a wee video. Wonder will they do the same now Gerry has said the exact same?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dont-rush-into-irish-unity-after-poll-without-a-plan-says-gerry-adams-38190115.html

Former Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams has suggested that a united Ireland should not happen immediately after a border poll in favour of it, as the lesson from Brexit was that a "referendum without a plan is stupid".

Eastwood if you remember said that there should be a special place in hell for those who call for border poll without a plan.
https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1100826310899834885?lang=en

This is what hypocrisy looks like.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 07, 2019, 11:25:56 AM
Good man Gerry...catching up with what I said here about 5 years ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 10, 2019, 10:00:17 AM
SF and the SDLP need to start working together and stop the political point scoring and internecine feuding.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 26, 2019, 01:02:39 PM
Sinn Fein registered 20 foreign trips after a Westminster watchdog began investigating visits to Venezuela by two of its MPs.

Some of the trips dated back to 2016, and included destinations such as China, Colombia and the United States.

All were registered on or after May 9 this year - in some cases more than three years after they took place. The details emerge in the latest Register of Members' Financial Interests published by Parliament.

Earlier this year Sinn Fein was criticised after it emerged that trips to Venezuela by Chris Hazzard and Mickey Brady, in 2018 and 2017 respectively, had not been registered. The MPs acted as international observers in elections which were marred by claims of vote-rigging.

Although their journeys were paid for at least in part with Venezuelan money, they were not logged with Westminster.

It led to DUP MP Gregory Campbell calling on the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner to investigate. Since then, a total of 20 trips by current Sinn Fein MPs have been registered. They include:

A visit to New York and New Bedford, Massachusetts, by Mr Brady, the Newry and Armagh MP. The visit, between March 10 and 18, 2016, was registered on May 9 this year.
A visit by Paul Maskey, the West Belfast MP, to Washington and New York from May 31 to June 4, 2016, also registered on May 9.
The visit to Venezuela, also by Mr Brady, between July 27 and 31, 2017, also registered on May 9.
A visit to New York by Elisha McCallion, the Foyle MP, between May 7 and 10, 2018, also registered on May 9.
A visit to Philadelphia by Orfhlaith Begley, the West Tyrone MP, between October 24 and 27, 2018, also registered on May 9.
In total, 17 trips were registered on May 9, and three more on May 22.

Mr Campbell, who is MP for East Londonderry, questioned why Sinn Fein had suddenly registered so many past trips.

He said: "Following the revelations that Mickey Brady and Chris Hazzard had failed to declare their role as observers at the (Venezuelan) elections, I lodged a complaint with the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards.

"The Commissioner responded by confirming that an investigation was under way.

"In light of that investigation it seems that in May, several months after the Commissioner confirmed her investigation, Sinn Fein MPs registered 21 separate trips on the Register of Interests at Westminster, stretching as far back as March 2016, when beforehand there had been very few registrations."

Mr Brady visited Venezuela for a congressional election in July 2017 and Mr Hazzard was there for a presidential election in May 2018. In both elections, there were allegations of vote-rigging.

The MPs travelled as members of delegations of international observers. The cost of their travel was met by CNE, the Venezuelan National Electoral Council, and they did not receive remuneration. It later emerged the trips were not registered with the House of Commons.

Sinn Fein had been heavily critical of DUP MP Ian Paisley's failure to register holidays to Sri Lanka, then lobbying on behalf of its regime.

Mr Campbell raised the Venezuela issue in the House of Commons in February.

At the time Sinn Fein deputy leader Michelle O'Neill told the media "there's no story here" and the Venezuela trip had been "absolutely declared".

A spokesperson for Sinn Fein commented: "Sinn Fein MPs often undertake international visits to promote the Irish peace process and to share the Irish experiences of conflict resolution and peace building.

"This is an important area of political work which, we hope, assists others in finding a negotiated avenue out of conflict.

"These visits are routinely publicised and never involve personal gain or advantage."

The spokesperson added: "We recently consulted with the Westminster Registrar and are happy to register all international travel."

A spokesperson for the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards said they do not comment on register entries by individual MPs.

Belfast Telegraph
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-suddenly-declares-20-overseas-trips-after-watchdog-probes-mps-visits-to-venezuela-38250111.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-suddenly-declares-20-overseas-trips-after-watchdog-probes-mps-visits-to-venezuela-38250111.html)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 28, 2019, 10:48:16 AM
Gregory would need to pay more attention to the holiday trips of his party colleagues.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on June 28, 2019, 12:15:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 26, 2019, 01:02:39 PM
Sinn Fein registered 20 foreign trips after a Westminster watchdog began investigating visits to Venezuela by two of its MPs.

Some of the trips dated back to 2016, and included destinations such as China, Colombia and the United States.

All were registered on or after May 9 this year - in some cases more than three years after they took place. The details emerge in the latest Register of Members' Financial Interests published by Parliament.

Earlier this year Sinn Fein was criticised after it emerged that trips to Venezuela by Chris Hazzard and Mickey Brady, in 2018 and 2017 respectively, had not been registered. The MPs acted as international observers in elections which were marred by claims of vote-rigging.

Although their journeys were paid for at least in part with Venezuelan money, they were not logged with Westminster.

It led to DUP MP Gregory Campbell calling on the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner to investigate. Since then, a total of 20 trips by current Sinn Fein MPs have been registered. They include:

A visit to New York and New Bedford, Massachusetts, by Mr Brady, the Newry and Armagh MP. The visit, between March 10 and 18, 2016, was registered on May 9 this year.
A visit by Paul Maskey, the West Belfast MP, to Washington and New York from May 31 to June 4, 2016, also registered on May 9.
The visit to Venezuela, also by Mr Brady, between July 27 and 31, 2017, also registered on May 9.
A visit to New York by Elisha McCallion, the Foyle MP, between May 7 and 10, 2018, also registered on May 9.
A visit to Philadelphia by Orfhlaith Begley, the West Tyrone MP, between October 24 and 27, 2018, also registered on May 9.
In total, 17 trips were registered on May 9, and three more on May 22.

Mr Campbell, who is MP for East Londonderry, questioned why Sinn Fein had suddenly registered so many past trips.

He said: "Following the revelations that Mickey Brady and Chris Hazzard had failed to declare their role as observers at the (Venezuelan) elections, I lodged a complaint with the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards.

"The Commissioner responded by confirming that an investigation was under way.

"In light of that investigation it seems that in May, several months after the Commissioner confirmed her investigation, Sinn Fein MPs registered 21 separate trips on the Register of Interests at Westminster, stretching as far back as March 2016, when beforehand there had been very few registrations."

Mr Brady visited Venezuela for a congressional election in July 2017 and Mr Hazzard was there for a presidential election in May 2018. In both elections, there were allegations of vote-rigging.

The MPs travelled as members of delegations of international observers. The cost of their travel was met by CNE, the Venezuelan National Electoral Council, and they did not receive remuneration. It later emerged the trips were not registered with the House of Commons.

Sinn Fein had been heavily critical of DUP MP Ian Paisley's failure to register holidays to Sri Lanka, then lobbying on behalf of its regime.

Mr Campbell raised the Venezuela issue in the House of Commons in February.

At the time Sinn Fein deputy leader Michelle O'Neill told the media "there's no story here" and the Venezuela trip had been "absolutely declared".

A spokesperson for Sinn Fein commented: "Sinn Fein MPs often undertake international visits to promote the Irish peace process and to share the Irish experiences of conflict resolution and peace building.

"This is an important area of political work which, we hope, assists others in finding a negotiated avenue out of conflict.

"These visits are routinely publicised and never involve personal gain or advantage."

The spokesperson added: "We recently consulted with the Westminster Registrar and are happy to register all international travel."

A spokesperson for the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards said they do not comment on register entries by individual MPs.

Belfast Telegraph
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-suddenly-declares-20-overseas-trips-after-watchdog-probes-mps-visits-to-venezuela-38250111.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-suddenly-declares-20-overseas-trips-after-watchdog-probes-mps-visits-to-venezuela-38250111.html)

They will be gutted if it leads to a suspension from attending the HoC!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on August 05, 2019, 02:23:59 PM
Cringe-worthy performance from Martina Anderson yesterday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on August 05, 2019, 03:00:04 PM
Sounded like it surely
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on August 05, 2019, 05:31:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 05, 2019, 02:23:59 PM
Cringe-worthy performance from Martina Anderson yesterday.
She sounded like she had been on the drink.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on August 05, 2019, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: michaelg on August 05, 2019, 05:31:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 05, 2019, 02:23:59 PM
Cringe-worthy performance from Martina Anderson yesterday.
She sounded like she had been on the drink.

The only time you hear from the clowns now at some Commemoration or other.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on August 05, 2019, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: t_mac on August 05, 2019, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: michaelg on August 05, 2019, 05:31:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 05, 2019, 02:23:59 PM
Cringe-worthy performance from Martina Anderson yesterday.
She sounded like she had been on the drink.

The only time you hear from the clowns now at some Commemoration or other.

Damned if you do...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on August 06, 2019, 08:28:36 AM
Quote from: Orior on August 05, 2019, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: t_mac on August 05, 2019, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: michaelg on August 05, 2019, 05:31:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 05, 2019, 02:23:59 PM
Cringe-worthy performance from Martina Anderson yesterday.
She sounded like she had been on the drink.

The only time you hear from the clowns now at some Commemoration or other.

Damned if you do...

Tiocfaidh ár lá and No Surrender are two sides of the one coin. It's designed purely to antagonise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 09:33:02 AM
Anderson is an embarrassment to Nationalism. SF need to tell her to cop on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:22:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 08:28:36 AM
Quote from: Orior on August 05, 2019, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: t_mac on August 05, 2019, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: michaelg on August 05, 2019, 05:31:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 05, 2019, 02:23:59 PM
Cringe-worthy performance from Martina Anderson yesterday.
She sounded like she had been on the drink.

The only time you hear from the clowns now at some Commemoration or other.

Damned if you do...

Tiocfaidh ár lá and No Surrender are two sides of the one coin. It's designed purely to antagonise.

21 years from the GFA and this is the type of thing we get from politicians. Suffering Jesus!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:24:20 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 09:33:02 AM
Anderson is an embarrassment to Nationalism. SF need to tell her to cop on.

SF as a whole need to cop on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 11:55:27 AM
Anderson is to Unionism what Foster is to nationalism. A gift. She fulfils all the stereotypes that paranoid unionists have of the nationalist/republican population. Whilst I do think that there is a certain amount of faux outrage when these incidents occur, an elected representative should really know better than to rabble rouse in this manner.   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on August 06, 2019, 12:01:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

I think Mary Lou has tried to be progressive, but has perhaps been reined in a bit. Certainly would appear to be at the opposite end of the SF spectrum from Martina.

What it says about SF voters is that they are across a very broad spectrum, and chiefly for the reason apples says. They deserve credit for running on an all island basis, and I'd really like to see the other parties do the same
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on August 06, 2019, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.

I don't really care who delivers it, as long as it comes about.

You strike me as the kind of person that would rather not have a UI, if it were SF that delivered it  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on August 06, 2019, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.

I don't really care who delivers it, as long as it comes about.

You strike me as the kind of person that would rather not have a UI, if it were SF that delivered it  ::)

What a stupid comment
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on August 06, 2019, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 11:55:27 AM
Anderson is to Unionism what Foster is to nationalism. A gift. She fulfils all the stereotypes that paranoid unionists have of the nationalist/republican population. Whilst I do think that there is a certain amount of faux outrage when these incidents occur, an elected representative should really know better than to rabble rouse in this manner.

Agree.

Both are actually doing more harm than good to their respective causes.

Once the EU seat goes Martina should be quietly pensioned off.

What would it take to get rid of Michelle though. Was she not anointed by wee Martin?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on August 06, 2019, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 06, 2019, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 11:55:27 AM
Anderson is to Unionism what Foster is to nationalism. A gift. She fulfils all the stereotypes that paranoid unionists have of the nationalist/republican population. Whilst I do think that there is a certain amount of faux outrage when these incidents occur, an elected representative should really know better than to rabble rouse in this manner.

Agree.

Both are actually doing more harm than good to their respective causes.

Once the EU seat goes Martina should be quietly pensioned off.

What would it take to get rid of Michelle though. Was she not anointed by wee Martin?

She a waste of space, she was probably chosen because she was female, there can be no other reason - one of the most useless voices in politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on August 06, 2019, 01:51:48 PM
Quote from: t_mac on August 06, 2019, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 06, 2019, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 11:55:27 AM
Anderson is to Unionism what Foster is to nationalism. A gift. She fulfils all the stereotypes that paranoid unionists have of the nationalist/republican population. Whilst I do think that there is a certain amount of faux outrage when these incidents occur, an elected representative should really know better than to rabble rouse in this manner.

Agree.

Both are actually doing more harm than good to their respective causes.

Once the EU seat goes Martina should be quietly pensioned off.

What would it take to get rid of Michelle though. Was she not anointed by wee Martin?

She a waste of space, she was probably chosen because she was female, there can be no other reason - one of the most useless voices in politics.

By all accounts she's a very good and hard working politician behind the scenes but she can't handle the leadership role her voice and communication are not at the level they should be for such a position she doesn't come across well on radio or tv unfortunately!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on August 06, 2019, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.

They've got us close anyway
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on August 06, 2019, 02:17:28 PM
some doll martina barby
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 03:46:05 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 06, 2019, 01:51:48 PM
Quote from: t_mac on August 06, 2019, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 06, 2019, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 11:55:27 AM
Anderson is to Unionism what Foster is to nationalism. A gift. She fulfils all the stereotypes that paranoid unionists have of the nationalist/republican population. Whilst I do think that there is a certain amount of faux outrage when these incidents occur, an elected representative should really know better than to rabble rouse in this manner.

Agree.

Both are actually doing more harm than good to their respective causes.

Once the EU seat goes Martina should be quietly pensioned off.

What would it take to get rid of Michelle though. Was she not anointed by wee Martin?

She a waste of space, she was probably chosen because she was female, there can be no other reason - one of the most useless voices in politics.

By all accounts she's a very good and hard working politician behind the scenes but she can't handle the leadership role her voice and communication are not at the level they should be for such a position she doesn't come across well on radio or tv unfortunately!!

Maybe Stephen Rea needs hauled in again to do a voiceover  :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 04:04:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 06, 2019, 01:51:48 PM
Quote from: t_mac on August 06, 2019, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 06, 2019, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 11:55:27 AM
Anderson is to Unionism what Foster is to nationalism. A gift. She fulfils all the stereotypes that paranoid unionists have of the nationalist/republican population. Whilst I do think that there is a certain amount of faux outrage when these incidents occur, an elected representative should really know better than to rabble rouse in this manner.

Agree.

Both are actually doing more harm than good to their respective causes.

Once the EU seat goes Martina should be quietly pensioned off.

What would it take to get rid of Michelle though. Was she not anointed by wee Martin?

She a waste of space, she was probably chosen because she was female, there can be no other reason - one of the most useless voices in politics.

By all accounts she's a very good and hard working politician behind the scenes but she can't handle the leadership role her voice and communication are not at the level they should be for such a position she doesn't come across well on radio or tv u
nfortunately!!
Voters outside her constituency can only judge her on her radio and tv appearances which aren't good. If you need to haul out O'Dowd and Murphy at crucial times then perhaps that's were the leadership should go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on August 06, 2019, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 06, 2019, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.

They've got us close anyway

So what's your plan?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on August 06, 2019, 06:48:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.

I don't think anybody will ever persuade those who need to be persuaded
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 06:57:14 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 06, 2019, 06:48:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.

I don't think anybody will ever persuade those who need to be persuaded

The people who need to be persuaded are the 20% or so in the middle, hard unionists and loyalists will never vote for it but demographics are changing and Brexit has opened up an economic debate that is only really beginning. I do think for the border poll to happen it would need to be predicated by Scottish independence and an intensive open debate on the costs/benefits of reunification. It would also need to be driven by civic nationalism and the Irish political parties in order to give it the best possible chance of success.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on August 06, 2019, 09:59:43 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 06:57:14 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 06, 2019, 06:48:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.

I don't think anybody will ever persuade those who need to be persuaded

The people who need to be persuaded are the 20% or so in the middle, hard unionists and loyalists will never vote for it but demographics are changing and Brexit has opened up an economic debate that is only really beginning. I do think for the border poll to happen it would need to be predicated by Scottish independence and an intensive open debate on the costs/benefits of reunification. It would also need to be driven by civic nationalism and the Irish political parties in order to give it the best possible chance of success.

Who else is driving it at the minute? The Tories and British Labour Party?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on August 06, 2019, 09:59:43 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 06:57:14 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 06, 2019, 06:48:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.

I don't think anybody will ever persuade those who need to be persuaded

The people who need to be persuaded are the 20% or so in the middle, hard unionists and loyalists will never vote for it but demographics are changing and Brexit has opened up an economic debate that is only really beginning. I do think for the border poll to happen it would need to be predicated by Scottish independence and an intensive open debate on the costs/benefits of reunification. It would also need to be driven by civic nationalism and the Irish political parties in order to give it the best possible chance of success.

Who else is driving it at the minute? The Tories and British Labour Party?

It has not been seriously discussed by any of the Irish political parties to date certainly at least in
public although I have seen some documents in terms of the economics from Mark Daly, ESRI However I do believe that preparations need to begin to prepare for the eventuality.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on August 31, 2019, 11:46:34 AM
Are things not going so well in SF land? Leadership elections now? My, my. Whatever next?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on August 31, 2019, 12:57:28 PM
Hopefully for their sake they soon get rid of the useless Marylou as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 31, 2019, 05:26:44 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on August 31, 2019, 11:46:34 AM
Are things not going so well in SF land? Leadership elections now? My, my. Whatever next?

Unbelievable that Sf has suddenly become a democratic party when all leadership has previously been more like USSR with appointees "elected" by the membership.

Replacing O'Neill makes sense if Foster also goes to allow Sir Jeffrey to take over.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on August 31, 2019, 06:09:21 PM
They might even start representing their electorate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on August 31, 2019, 06:25:54 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on August 31, 2019, 05:26:44 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on August 31, 2019, 11:46:34 AM
Are things not going so well in SF land? Leadership elections now? My, my. Whatever next?

Unbelievable that Sf has suddenly become a democratic party when all leadership has previously been more like USSR with appointees "elected" by the membership.

Replacing O'Neill makes sense if Foster also goes to allow Sir Jeffrey to take over.

Wee Jeffrey? You mean Sir Smug of Smugness
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on August 31, 2019, 07:19:11 PM
They're going after O'Neill because she is weak. Weak in front of the cameras and weak in debates. She has a fight on her hands with O'Dowd.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Denn Forever on September 01, 2019, 10:45:32 AM
English former mechanic leaves Sinn Féin £1.5m in will

Nice windfall.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/english-former-mechanic-leaves-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1-5m-in-will-1.4001303
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on September 01, 2019, 10:47:02 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 01, 2019, 10:45:32 AM
English former mechanic leaves Sinn Féin £1.5m in will

Nice windfall.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/english-former-mechanic-leaves-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1-5m-in-will-1.4001303

As compared to....plucking figure out of the air.... £26 million?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on September 02, 2019, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on September 01, 2019, 10:47:02 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 01, 2019, 10:45:32 AM
English former mechanic leaves Sinn Féin £1.5m in will

Nice windfall.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/english-former-mechanic-leaves-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1-5m-in-will-1.4001303

As compared to....plucking figure out of the air.... £26 million?

He must have been some mechanic if he can go forward in time to 2004 when writing a will in 1997.

If he discovered the flux capacitor then no wonder he'd millions stashed away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on September 02, 2019, 11:27:13 AM
Any self-respecting car mechanic is bound to have a few odd millions salted away, with the hourly rates that they charge.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on September 02, 2019, 01:06:39 PM
I would enjoy seeing O'Dowd take over from O'Neill.

Always seems like he has a strategic view and is good at articulating his argument.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on September 02, 2019, 01:39:19 PM
They'll need to shift Mary Lou as well if they are to halt their electoral decline, especially in the south. Personally I think Pearse Doherty is the obvious choice for leader and they could do worse than have Conor Murphy as deputy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 02, 2019, 02:37:37 PM
Poor Pearse, wrong sex and wrong accent for the big push to become a major party in the 26.
He is the obvious choice though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on September 02, 2019, 02:41:51 PM
Granted I'm not objective but O'neill and Mary Lou are awful. Anderson is also terrible. Doherty is excellent.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on September 02, 2019, 02:48:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 02, 2019, 01:06:39 PM
I would enjoy seeing O'Dowd take over from O'Neill.

Always seems like he has a strategic view and is good at articulating his argument.

I think a unity candidate is badly needed.here - a man of the calibre of Barry McElduff, perhaps?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 03, 2019, 08:35:02 AM
Anderson is an unrepentant wing nut there to keep the SuperTiocfaidh's happy. She puts off middle-class voters. O'Neill may well be a smart women but her media performance is woeful, she speaks too fast and the message is lost. O'Dowd is a solid media performer and his intelligent and coherent. He makes persuasive arguments and doesn't just repeat old mantra's. Conor Murphy is undoubtedly leadership material as well. I can't believe that O'Dowd is doing this entirely without support from the higher echelons.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 03, 2019, 10:57:02 AM
Unless the grass roots are rebelling?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Denn Forever on September 03, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 02, 2019, 02:37:37 PM
Poor Pearse, wrong sex and wrong accent for the big push to become a major party in the 26.
He is the obvious choice though.

He could get a voice coach to make him like Danial O'Donnell.  Also help him speak a bit slower with a less hectoring tone.  I suppose the TD from Cavan has retired.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on September 03, 2019, 11:55:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2019, 10:57:02 AM
Unless the grass roots are rebelling?

O'Neill makes me cringe every time she's on the TV.

It's not the accent, she can't help that and that's subjective anyway. It's that she doesn't seem to veer away or offer anything other than the party line and there's little insight with her as to how she herself would do things.

She may be different in private but the public persona isn't good.

O'Dowd comes across as more conciliatory, Murphy more confrontational, both a step up from O'Neill.

O'Dowd wouldn't have thrown his hat in the ring if there wasn't support for doing so from within the party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on September 12, 2019, 06:17:14 PM
Bit a'bitchin' going on within Sinn Fein.

Michelle G supporting Lurgan John for Vice President
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on September 12, 2019, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on August 06, 2019, 09:59:43 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 06:57:14 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 06, 2019, 06:48:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 06, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 06, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 06, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
It's abit like Trump rabble rousing his so called base, same here, and and we know our opinion on trumps base of supporters.

But what does it say about people who vote SF after their antics?
That there unfortunately is no credible alternative if you want a UI. The SDLP have no one of note or intellect. SF do have saner voices such as O'Dowd, Murphy and Brady. Unfortunately this anti British clown grabs the headlines. Mary Lou is a disappointment as President and Michelle O'Neill is useless.

SF will never deliver a UI and never is a long time. They haven't the ability or skill to persuade those who need persuaded.

I don't think anybody will ever persuade those who need to be persuaded

The people who need to be persuaded are the 20% or so in the middle, hard unionists and loyalists will never vote for it but demographics are changing and Brexit has opened up an economic debate that is only really beginning. I do think for the border poll to happen it would need to be predicated by Scottish independence and an intensive open debate on the costs/benefits of reunification. It would also need to be driven by civic nationalism and the Irish political parties in order to give it the best possible chance of success.

Who else is driving it at the minute? The Tories and British Labour Party?
Johnson and Co are doing as good a job as anyone at the minute  :D :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on September 12, 2019, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on September 02, 2019, 01:39:19 PM
They'll need to shift Mary Lou as well if they are to halt their electoral decline, especially in the south. Personally I think Pearse Doherty is the obvious choice for leader and they could do worse than have Conor Murphy as deputy.
Pearse is the best politician in the country. By far.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on September 18, 2019, 11:13:18 AM
"Martina has been doing great work in Brussels lobbying the EU on our behalf"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEvDuf4XUAMDZrG?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on September 18, 2019, 01:01:51 PM
With the Gibraltar crest on the shirt. Is she campaigning for them too?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tyroneman on September 18, 2019, 01:02:01 PM
O'Neill prob won't have much support round Strabane way after the DARD issue.......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 18, 2019, 02:43:08 PM
Martina Anderson is an embarrassment and it is time she was pensioned off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 18, 2019, 03:10:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 18, 2019, 11:13:18 AM
"Martina has been doing great work in Brussels lobbying the EU on our behalf"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEvDuf4XUAMDZrG?format=jpg&name=small)

I'm actually depressed to find out this actually happened and not a mock up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on September 18, 2019, 03:15:39 PM
What was the point she was trying to make?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on September 18, 2019, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 18, 2019, 03:15:39 PM
What was the point she was trying to make?

Apparently it was to do with Gibraltar!! That's James McClean's jersey she's wearing what a fuckin eejit!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on September 18, 2019, 03:31:43 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 18, 2019, 03:10:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 18, 2019, 11:13:18 AM
"Martina has been doing great work in Brussels lobbying the EU on our behalf"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEvDuf4XUAMDZrG?format=jpg&name=small)

I'm actually depressed to find out this actually happened and not a mock up.

Same here.

Time for Martina to toddle off into retirement before she does more damage to the cause she thinks she's helping.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on September 19, 2019, 10:13:11 AM
Thought this was a Photoshop to begin with. Depressing it isn't. Stunts like this will drive nationalists to Alliance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on September 19, 2019, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 19, 2019, 10:13:11 AM
Thought this was a Photoshop to begin with. Depressing it isn't. Stunts like this will drive nationalists to Alliance.

The cult devotees will think this is great.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on September 19, 2019, 06:00:16 PM
The hippy in the background didn't look desperately interested in whatever it was she was going on about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on September 19, 2019, 06:27:04 PM
That's our mighty Ming.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on September 19, 2019, 07:44:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 19, 2019, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 19, 2019, 10:13:11 AM
Thought this was a Photoshop to begin with. Depressing it isn't. Stunts like this will drive nationalists to Alliance.

The cult devotees will think this is great.

Not the ones I'm talking to mind you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on September 19, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 19, 2019, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 19, 2019, 10:13:11 AM
Thought this was a Photoshop to begin with. Depressing it isn't. Stunts like this will drive nationalists to Alliance.

The cult devotees will think this is great.

This is manna from heaven for SF voters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on September 20, 2019, 09:02:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on September 19, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 19, 2019, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 19, 2019, 10:13:11 AM
Thought this was a Photoshop to begin with. Depressing it isn't. Stunts like this will drive nationalists to Alliance.

The cult devotees will think this is great.

This is manna from heaven for SF voters.

It's a embarrassment - she's been an embarrassment for a long time now.

The only people who treat this as "manna from heaven" are wee SDLP lackeys like yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on September 20, 2019, 10:56:49 AM
So rather than do anything for Derry in particular which is suffering big time she's chosen to fight the corner of Gibraltar and some chancer trying to break trademark laws selling free state Tayto into the North. . . get her out to f**k!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on September 20, 2019, 11:53:27 AM
Quote from: Franko on September 20, 2019, 09:02:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on September 19, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 19, 2019, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 19, 2019, 10:13:11 AM
Thought this was a Photoshop to begin with. Depressing it isn't. Stunts like this will drive nationalists to Alliance.

The cult devotees will think this is great.

This is manna from heaven for SF voters.

It's a embarrassment - she's been an embarrassment for a long time now.

The only people who treat this as "manna from heaven" are wee SDLP lackeys like yourself.

Cool story bro..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on September 20, 2019, 12:00:28 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 18, 2019, 02:43:08 PM
Martina Anderson is an embarrassment and it is time she was pensioned off.

Sinners in general are becoming an embarrassment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on September 20, 2019, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 20, 2019, 10:56:49 AM
So rather than do anything for Derry in particular which is suffering big time she's chosen to fight the corner of Gibraltar and some chancer trying to break trademark laws selling free state Tayto into the North. . . get her out to f**k!!!

But wearing one of McCleans shirts is obviously a vote winner. I had a look on here social media accounts when I saw this and was expecting a tirade of abuse aimed at Anderson. Most of the comments were positive and supportive of her 'stunt'.
You get what you vote for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 20, 2019, 12:47:20 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 20, 2019, 09:02:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on September 19, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 19, 2019, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 19, 2019, 10:13:11 AM
Thought this was a Photoshop to begin with. Depressing it isn't. Stunts like this will drive nationalists to Alliance.

The cult devotees will think this is great.

This is manna from heaven for SF voters.

It's a embarrassment - she's been an embarrassment for a long time now.

The only people who treat this as "manna from heaven" are wee SDLP lackeys like yourself.

As a Derry City resident and ex lifetime Sinn Féin voter, I have to say this woman plus that useless Elisha Dolittle are a complete embarrassment to the party and the city.

They didnt lose 5 seats here for nothing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 20, 2019, 02:00:42 PM
Haven't even touched on her 'occupied Tayto' tweets yet!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 20, 2019, 11:59:14 AM
Another bad poll result for SF down 4 to 16%. When are they going to realise that they made a mistake electing Mary Lou as leader?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 20, 2019, 12:07:13 PM
She was crowned in advance by the Party hierarchy rather than elected.
Tá a lá imithe ... until the next recession anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 28, 2019, 12:28:22 PM
Martin Kenny's car set on fire outside his house a few days after some of the neo Nazi filth declared him a  "traitor" who needs to be shot.
That because he didnt join the herd in opposing Refugees being located in Ballinamore.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2019, 02:45:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2019, 12:28:22 PM
Martin Kenny's car set on fire outside his house a few days after some of the neo Nazi filth declared him a  "traitor" who needs to be shot.
That because he didnt join the herd in opposing Refugees being located in Ballinamore.

Is there local involvement in all these factions or is it just some gang latching onto it wherever a new centre is announced.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 28, 2019, 05:47:02 PM
That Justin Barratt and his "National Party" were up on Ben Bulben with their banner over the weekend.
They and others of their ilk piggy backed onto the Oughterard protest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 29, 2019, 04:02:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2019, 12:28:22 PM
Martin Kenny's car set on fire outside his house a few days after some of the neo Nazi filth declared him a  "traitor" who needs to be shot.
That because he didnt join the herd in opposing Refugees being located in Ballinamore.
He just stuck with the SF herd instead.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 29, 2019, 04:41:15 PM
He stood with the decent human herd.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on October 29, 2019, 05:15:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2019, 05:47:02 PM
That Justin Barratt and his "National Party" were up on Ben Bulben with their banner over the weekend.
They and others of their ilk piggy backed onto the Oughterard protest.

Barrett is a fool, best ignored. He would struggle to get 100 votes in any election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: angermanagement on October 29, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Is Elisha McCallion the best SF can offer? She's been on every program over the last few weeks and comes across as clueless.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: The Trap on October 29, 2019, 11:36:27 PM
Unreal.......more or less just made a unionist pact a cert!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 29, 2019, 11:40:41 PM
Quote from: The Trap on October 29, 2019, 11:36:27 PM
Unreal.......more or less just made a unionist pact a cert!
££££££££££
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: keeperlit on October 29, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on October 29, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Is Elisha McCallion the best SF can offer? She's been on every program over the last few weeks and comes across as clueless.

Shinners know that foyle is a marginal seat for them so are trying to boost her profile as much as possible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 30, 2019, 12:11:53 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on October 29, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on October 29, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Is Elisha McCallion the best SF can offer? She's been on every program over the last few weeks and comes across as clueless.

Shinners know that foyle is a marginal seat for them so are trying to boost her profile as much as possible.

She is a tool and should be hidden away, that would be her best chance of winning. Must be a real chance for SDLP to retake the seat
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2019, 06:07:15 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 30, 2019, 12:11:53 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on October 29, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on October 29, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Is Elisha McCallion the best SF can offer? She's been on every program over the last few weeks and comes across as clueless.

Shinners know that foyle is a marginal seat for them so are trying to boost her profile as much as possible.

She is a tool and should be hidden away, that would be her best chance of winning. Must be a real chance for SDLP to retake the seat

She is very weak.. Aontú could make the difference here. Anne McCloskey will take maybe 3k votes, its probably a matter of who she takes most off. I think SDLP would do better with Mary Durkan than Eastwood. One to watch
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 30, 2019, 07:30:15 AM
Sinn Féins abortion policy will cost them their seat in Foyle.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: TheOptimist on October 30, 2019, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2019, 06:07:15 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 30, 2019, 12:11:53 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on October 29, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on October 29, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Is Elisha McCallion the best SF can offer? She's been on every program over the last few weeks and comes across as clueless.



Shinners know that foyle is a marginal seat for them so are trying to boost her profile as much as possible.

She is a tool and should be hidden away, that would be her best chance of winning. Must be a real chance for SDLP to retake the seat

She is very weak.. Aontú could make the difference here. Anne McCloskey will take maybe 3k votes, its probably a matter of who she takes most off. I think SDLP would do better with Mary Durkan than Eastwood. One to watch

You can say that about Elisha but fact is she won the seat of SDLP 3 years ago for the first time. They had her posters up an hour after the election was called, seen a load of them this morning. On twitter as well trying to emphasise that SDLP haven't even chose their candidate yet. In fairness SDLP have had 3 years to think about it, they should really be decided by now. It looks like they don't think they have someone strong enough.... or at least that's the angle Sinn Fein are already pushing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on October 30, 2019, 09:25:53 AM
Quote from: TheOptimist on October 30, 2019, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2019, 06:07:15 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 30, 2019, 12:11:53 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on October 29, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on October 29, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Is Elisha McCallion the best SF can offer? She's been on every program over the last few weeks and comes across as clueless.



Shinners know that foyle is a marginal seat for them so are trying to boost her profile as much as possible.

She is a tool and should be hidden away, that would be her best chance of winning. Must be a real chance for SDLP to retake the seat

She is very weak.. Aontú could make the difference here. Anne McCloskey will take maybe 3k votes, its probably a matter of who she takes most off. I think SDLP would do better with Mary Durkan than Eastwood. One to watch

You can say that about Elisha but fact is she won the seat of SDLP 3 years ago for the first time. They had her posters up an hour after the election was called, seen a load of them this morning. On twitter as well trying to emphasise that SDLP haven't even chose their candidate yet. In fairness SDLP have had 3 years to think about it, they should really be decided by now. It looks like they don't think they have someone strong enough.... or at least that's the angle Sinn Fein are already pushing.

The problem for me is that Colum wants to run in every election - just because he's leader, he thinks it's his duty.

Mc Callion is a waffler - turns people off with same speech in every broadcast.

I think SF will lose out as unionists will vote tactically for the SDLP candidate.

On tv last night, they talked about discussions about a pact but they'd need to hurry up and regardless, this should hsve been discussed a month ago.

Claire Hanna is another Mc Callion - if you didn't know what party she's from, you wouldn't hsve known from last nights show - usual bland statements.  I think Alliance would be a more natural party for her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sensethetone on October 30, 2019, 09:39:47 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 30, 2019, 09:25:53 AM
Quote from: TheOptimist on October 30, 2019, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2019, 06:07:15 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 30, 2019, 12:11:53 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on October 29, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on October 29, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Is Elisha McCallion the best SF can offer? She's been on every program over the last few weeks and comes across as clueless.



Shinners know that foyle is a marginal seat for them so are trying to boost her profile as much as possible.

She is a tool and should be hidden away, that would be her best chance of winning. Must be a real chance for SDLP to retake the seat

She is very weak.. Aontú could make the difference here. Anne McCloskey will take maybe 3k votes, its probably a matter of who she takes most off. I think SDLP would do better with Mary Durkan than Eastwood. One to watch

You can say that about Elisha but fact is she won the seat of SDLP 3 years ago for the first time. They had her posters up an hour after the election was called, seen a load of them this morning. On twitter as well trying to emphasise that SDLP haven't even chose their candidate yet. In fairness SDLP have had 3 years to think about it, they should really be decided by now. It looks like they don't think they have someone strong enough.... or at least that's the angle Sinn Fein are already pushing.

The problem for me is that Colum wants to run in every election - just because he's leader, he thinks it's his duty.

Mc Callion is a waffler - turns people off with same speech in every broadcast.

I think SF will lose out as unionists will vote tactically for the SDLP candidate.

On tv last night, they talked about discussions about a pact but they'd need to hurry up and regardless, this should hsve been discussed a month ago.

Claire Hanna is another Mc Callion - if you didn't know what party she's from, you wouldn't hsve known from last nights show - usual bland statements.  I think Alliance would be a more natural party for her.

I thought Claire Hanna had huffed a bit due to the SDLP's pact with FF, she's in election mode but will she needs a pact to get South Belfast.. In fairness she is a classier waffler than Declan Mc Crossan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2019, 10:18:10 AM
Quote from: TheOptimist on October 30, 2019, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2019, 06:07:15 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 30, 2019, 12:11:53 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on October 29, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on October 29, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Is Elisha McCallion the best SF can offer? She's been on every program over the last few weeks and comes across as clueless.



Shinners know that foyle is a marginal seat for them so are trying to boost her profile as much as possible.

She is a tool and should be hidden away, that would be her best chance of winning. Must be a real chance for SDLP to retake the seat

She is very weak.. Aontú could make the difference here. Anne McCloskey will take maybe 3k votes, its probably a matter of who she takes most off. I think SDLP would do better with Mary Durkan than Eastwood. One to watch

You can say that about Elisha but fact is she won the seat of SDLP 3 years ago for the first time. They had her posters up an hour after the election was called, seen a load of them this morning. On twitter as well trying to emphasise that SDLP haven't even chose their candidate yet. In fairness SDLP have had 3 years to think about it, they should really be decided by now. It looks like they don't think they have someone strong enough.... or at least that's the angle Sinn Fein are already pushing.

Nuf said
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on October 30, 2019, 10:27:55 AM
Quote from: sensethetone on October 30, 2019, 09:39:47 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 30, 2019, 09:25:53 AM
Quote from: TheOptimist on October 30, 2019, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2019, 06:07:15 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 30, 2019, 12:11:53 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on October 29, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on October 29, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Is Elisha McCallion the best SF can offer? She's been on every program over the last few weeks and comes across as clueless.



Shinners know that foyle is a marginal seat for them so are trying to boost her profile as much as possible.

She is a tool and should be hidden away, that would be her best chance of winning. Must be a real chance for SDLP to retake the seat

She is very weak.. Aontú could make the difference here. Anne McCloskey will take maybe 3k votes, its probably a matter of who she takes most off. I think SDLP would do better with Mary Durkan than Eastwood. One to watch

You can say that about Elisha but fact is she won the seat of SDLP 3 years ago for the first time. They had her posters up an hour after the election was called, seen a load of them this morning. On twitter as well trying to emphasise that SDLP haven't even chose their candidate yet. In fairness SDLP have had 3 years to think about it, they should really be decided by now. It looks like they don't think they have someone strong enough.... or at least that's the angle Sinn Fein are already pushing.

The problem for me is that Colum wants to run in every election - just because he's leader, he thinks it's his duty.

Mc Callion is a waffler - turns people off with same speech in every broadcast.

I think SF will lose out as unionists will vote tactically for the SDLP candidate.

On tv last night, they talked about discussions about a pact but they'd need to hurry up and regardless, this should hsve been discussed a month ago.

Claire Hanna is another Mc Callion - if you didn't know what party she's from, you wouldn't hsve known from last nights show - usual bland statements.  I think Alliance would be a more natural party for her.

I thought Claire Hanna had huffed a bit due to the SDLP's pact with FF, she's in election mode but will she needs a pact to get South Belfast.. In fairness she is a classier waffler than Declan Mc Crossan.

She's too bland - throws out general statements and tries too much to please everybody but too general. She was against Brexit but at the same time thinks a border poll wouldn't help.  Don't really know what she stands for.  As I say, Alliance would be a better fit.

South Belfast will elect Emma P again unless the anti-Brexit parties have a single candidate in. 

Give voters the choice: a DUP candidate or pro EU candidate.

Time for parties to stand up, forget the egoes and voters will remember it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on October 30, 2019, 10:37:25 AM
If Sinn Fein had any decency they'd be doing pacts all over the shop or even better not standing at all!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 18, 2019, 04:47:18 PM
DUP/UDA really ramping up the attacks on John Finucane. They've obviously taken a leaf out of SF's book. They're essentially out "Sinn Feining" Sinn Fein.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 18, 2019, 07:23:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2019, 04:47:18 PM
DUP/UDA really ramping up the attacks on John Finucane. They've obviously taken a leaf out of SF's book. They're essentially out "Sinn Feining" Sinn Fein.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/)

Absolutely incredible that you managed to twist this into a SF thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2019, 11:10:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2019, 07:23:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2019, 04:47:18 PM
DUP/UDA really ramping up the attacks on John Finucane. They've obviously taken a leaf out of SF's book. They're essentially out "Sinn Feining" Sinn Fein.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/)

Absolutely incredible that you managed to twist this into a SF thing.

Utterly warped.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 19, 2019, 08:45:05 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2019, 11:10:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2019, 07:23:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2019, 04:47:18 PM
DUP/UDA really ramping up the attacks on John Finucane. They've obviously taken a leaf out of SF's book. They're essentially out "Sinn Feining" Sinn Fein.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/)

Absolutely incredible that you managed to twist this into a SF thing.

Utterly warped.

It's the exact tactics that SF would wheel out. Attack others around the candidate, a sustained campaign of lies, rumour and whispers. I'm only pointing out the similarities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on November 19, 2019, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2019, 08:45:05 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2019, 11:10:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2019, 07:23:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2019, 04:47:18 PM
DUP/UDA really ramping up the attacks on John Finucane. They've obviously taken a leaf out of SF's book. They're essentially out "Sinn Feining" Sinn Fein.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/)

Absolutely incredible that you managed to twist this into a SF thing.

Utterly warped.

It's the exact tactics that SF would wheel out. Attack others around the candidate, a sustained campaign of lies, rumour and whispers. I'm only pointing out the similarities.

Your whataboutery is quite similar to that of the DUP. Just sayin...  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 19, 2019, 09:32:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2019, 04:47:18 PM
DUP/UDA really ramping up the attacks on John Finucane. They've obviously taken a leaf out of SF's book. They're essentially out "Sinn Feining" Sinn Fein.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2019/11/18/news/anti-john-finucane-banners-a-hate-crime-sinn-fe-in-says-1767935/)

How can you turn it into a SF thing? Crazy.  You have serious hate for SF, for whatever reason.

These posters are crazy - going up in places where JF is not even standing.  Fleg protest all over again. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on November 19, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop

What's a stoop ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on November 19, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 19, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop

What's a stoop ?

Stoop Down Low Party

Pretty infantile but seems to be standing the test of time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 19, 2019, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 19, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 19, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop

What's a stoop ?

Stoop Down Low Party

Pretty infantile but seems to be standing the test of time.

It's a well known SF tactic. Nicknames and mud slinging. Stoops, Stickies etc. The DUP and Loyalists have now adopted similar tactics. Thanks for making my point for me. Maith thú!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on November 19, 2019, 04:47:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2019, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 19, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 19, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop

What's a stoop ?

Stoop Down Low Party

Pretty infantile but seems to be standing the test of time.

It's a well known SF tactic. Nicknames and mud slinging. Stoops, Stickies etc. The DUP and Loyalists have now adopted similar tactics. Thanks for making my point for me. Maith thú!

and Blueshirts. They do like to do a bit of name calling. Trump is the same in he US.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 19, 2019, 05:02:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2019, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 19, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 19, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop

What's a stoop ?

Stoop Down Low Party

Pretty infantile but seems to be standing the test of time.

It's a well known SF tactic. Nicknames and mud slinging. Stoops, Stickies etc. The DUP and Loyalists have now adopted similar tactics. Thanks for making my point for me. Maith thú!

No, seems you're more anti SF than pro SDLP.

You need to tell us what you're for rather than what you're against - be positive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 19, 2019, 05:09:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2019, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 19, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 19, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop

What's a stoop ?

Stoop Down Low Party

Pretty infantile but seems to be standing the test of time.

It's a well known SF tactic. Nicknames and mud slinging. Stoops, Stickies etc. The DUP and Loyalists have now adopted similar tactics. Thanks for making my point for me. Maith thú!

They were known as the stickies because they sold stick on lillies at Easter. This was not a SF led insult, hell it's not even an insult!

Were you bullied by wee shinners at school??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 06:24:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 19, 2019, 05:09:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2019, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 19, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 19, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop

What's a stoop ?

Stoop Down Low Party

Pretty infantile but seems to be standing the test of time.

It's a well known SF tactic. Nicknames and mud slinging. Stoops, Stickies etc. The DUP and Loyalists have now adopted similar tactics. Thanks for making my point for me. Maith thú!

They were known as the stickies because they sold stick on lillies at Easter. This was not a SF led insult, hell it's not even an insult!

Were you bullied by wee shinners at school??
Definitely comes across as one of those holier than thou perennially offended gimps that probably would vote unionist before voting SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on November 20, 2019, 08:45:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

They are like the Catholic Church, needs a generation of sheep to pass on before they become irrelevant, Michelle O'Neill is a horrid woman, the whole John O'Dowd challenge shows exactly their mentality.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 20, 2019, 08:58:32 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 06:24:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 19, 2019, 05:09:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2019, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 19, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 19, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop

What's a stoop ?

Stoop Down Low Party

Pretty infantile but seems to be standing the test of time.

It's a well known SF tactic. Nicknames and mud slinging. Stoops, Stickies etc. The DUP and Loyalists have now adopted similar tactics. Thanks for making my point for me. Maith thú!

They were known as the stickies because they sold stick on lillies at Easter. This was not a SF led insult, hell it's not even an insult!

Were you bullied by wee shinners at school??
Definitely comes across as one of those holier than thou perennially offended gimps that probably would vote unionist before voting SF

Attack me all you want. I've had worse from SF. I'm merely pointing out how hypocritical they are. They do nothing for the Nationalist community in NI. It is all about cushy jobs for the boys and girls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on November 20, 2019, 09:07:18 AM
I don't like the whole Shinnerbot thing. It's wrong to suggest that people cannot make up their own minds.

But the number of people who will now happily tell me that they vote for Sinn Fein because they don't want representation in Westminster, and they don't want a shared government with the DUP, well it's growing rapidly. The memo is landing everywhere.

Thing is, I don't know what these people want. Well I do, but it's not going to come from a 5 year cycle of derailed Stormonts. Can you not just vote for people who will get on with the world, while the masterplan comes together in the background lads?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on November 20, 2019, 09:39:57 AM
SF (and DUP) will suffer in this election. Although they won't suffer enough to make a big difference.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on November 20, 2019, 10:11:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 20, 2019, 09:39:57 AM
SF (and DUP) will suffer in this election. Although they won't suffer enough to make a big difference.

As long as the British Pound keeps rolling in, none will give a shite either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on November 20, 2019, 10:52:16 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2019, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 19, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 19, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
What else do you expect from a stoop

What's a stoop ?

Stoop Down Low Party

Pretty infantile but seems to be standing the test of time.

It's a well known SF tactic. Nicknames and mud slinging. Stoops, Stickies etc. The DUP and Loyalists have now adopted similar tactics. Thanks for making my point for me. Maith thú!

What point was that?

You hate Sinn Fein. We get that.

Quote from: dec on November 19, 2019, 04:47:49 PM

and Blueshirts. They do like to do a bit of name calling. Trump is the same in he US.

Blueshirts is more a 26 counties thing across all non FG parties from what I can make out.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on November 20, 2019, 11:11:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

Maybe i'm misreading this, but why did you vote for them if this is your view?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on November 20, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 20, 2019, 11:11:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

Maybe i'm misreading this, but why did you vote for them if this is your view?

I went to mass for 20 odd years before I realised the Catholic Church is a nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch and God is non-existent, I also believed in Santa for a time!  We are all conditioned by our surroundings - sometimes it takes a while for the truth to set in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on November 20, 2019, 12:00:37 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 20, 2019, 09:39:57 AM
SF (and DUP) will suffer in this election. Although they won't suffer enough to make a big difference.

SF will probably lose Foyle, DUP will lose south Belfast but probably gain north Down. Not a lot of difference.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on November 20, 2019, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: t_mac on November 20, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 20, 2019, 11:11:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

Maybe i'm misreading this, but why did you vote for them if this is your view?

I went to mass for 20 odd years before I realised the Catholic Church is a nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch and God is non-existent, I also believed in Santa for a time!  We are all conditioned by our surroundings - sometimes it takes a while for the truth to set in.

Sure, i get that we can change our views after a time and you gave a few examples there. But given the level of media attention Sinn Fein attracted over a 30 year period, what made the previous poster suddenly decide to stop voting for them?
           Why was he voting for nearly a third of a century for a party he clearly despises. It makes no sense.
         
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

It took you 30yrs - then you changed your mind suddenly?
What happened? Did you leave the party?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on November 20, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

It took you 30yrs - then you changed your mind suddenly?
What happened? Did you leave the party?

How do you gradually change your vote, as opposed to suddenly?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 04:08:50 PM
Quote from: t_mac on November 20, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

It took you 30yrs - then you changed your mind suddenly?
What happened? Did you leave the party?

How do you gradually change your vote, as opposed to suddenly?

After 30 years...i think that's suddenly....in anyone's language.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on November 20, 2019, 06:19:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

Well done me oul city mucker, you've seen the light!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on November 20, 2019, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 04:08:50 PM
Quote from: t_mac on November 20, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

It took you 30yrs - then you changed your mind suddenly?
What happened? Did you leave the party?

How do you gradually change your vote, as opposed to suddenly?

After 30 years...i think that's suddenly....in anyone's language.

You don't vote every year you know, changing vote after 5 or 6 elections isn't sudden, just a coming to ones senses, let's be honest anyone over 40 is conditioned to be us against them no matter what, fair play to anyone who calls shinners out and ditches the useless shower.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on November 20, 2019, 08:04:17 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?

Michelle O'Neill and Mary Lou McDonald both seemed to be chosen as leaders in their respective positions without an election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?

Look what happened to John O'D!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 20, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?

Look what happened to John O'D!

The election for vice chairperson was straight out of the communist Russia playbook. No debate or hustings and no voting results. John O'Dowd will no doubt be ostracised as a result.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 09:22:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 20, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?

Look what happened to John O'D!

The election for vice chairperson was straight out of the communist Russia playbook. No debate or hustings and no voting results. John O'Dowd will no doubt be ostracised as a result.

I, and most people, probably actually think he's a better candidate than O'Neill.  I'm not sure why she's in as deputy leader or what it's called.  O'Dowd a good speaker and comes across as likeable.

Only thing I can think of is maybe female representation but if so, they've taken it to the extreme.

Strange indeed whatever is behind it.  Pearse Doherty is a great candidate - doing great work on the banks and more recently, insurance.  He should be leader in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on November 20, 2019, 09:53:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?
Not at all, especially that bit in bold.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2019, 10:19:11 PM
Quote from: grounded on November 20, 2019, 11:11:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

Maybe i'm misreading this, but why did you vote for them if this is your view?

I voted SF when they only got 10% of the vote. The military campaign was still in full flow. I lived in a totally militarised area of Derry where you were fully aware that you were occupied by a foreign and oppressive army. The ruc were worse. A high proportion of our street was either in the Ra, irps, stickies or at least sympathisers. It was a clannish them against us thing. Throughout this time you conditioned yourself to sort of ignore the atrocities committed by republicans as the Brits were the bigger fish that needed fríed.
As peace descended a new phenomenon occurred. Essentially the Brits bought us off. They ensured all community groups came under SF control through nepotism etc. It was the money drug that the shinners could not resist, but only they get to avail of it. An increasing percentage of party members seemed to become unable to free think, and those thst did were crushed or expelled. The party gave no free vote on abortion, they celebrated it like all ireland final. The introduced welfare reforms, they dished our SIF unfairly. They have been devisive even on the language question here in Derry. Splitting schools to ensure control away from CCC, I couid go on for hours.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 10:43:33 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 09:22:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 20, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?

Look what happened to John O'D!

The election for vice chairperson was straight out of the communist Russia playbook. No debate or hustings and no voting results. John O'Dowd will no doubt be ostracised as a result.

I, and most people, probably actually think he's a better candidate than O'Neill.  I'm not sure why she's in as deputy leader or what it's called.  O'Dowd a good speaker and comes across as likeable.

Only thing I can think of is maybe female representation but if so, they've taken it to the extreme.

Strange indeed whatever is behind it.  Pearse Doherty is a great candidate - doing great work on the banks and more recently, insurance.  He should be leader in my opinion.

Doherty and Ó Muilleoir are very impressive individuals. I don't know why they're not more prominent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2019, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 10:43:33 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 09:22:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 20, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?

Look what happened to John O'D!

The election for vice chairperson was straight out of the communist Russia playbook. No debate or hustings and no voting results. John O'Dowd will no doubt be ostracised as a result.

I, and most people, probably actually think he's a better candidate than O'Neill.  I'm not sure why she's in as deputy leader or what it's called.  O'Dowd a good speaker and comes across as likeable.

Only thing I can think of is maybe female representation but if so, they've taken it to the extreme.

Strange indeed whatever is behind it.  Pearse Doherty is a great candidate - doing great work on the banks and more recently, insurance.  He should be leader in my opinion.

Doherty and Ó Muilleoir are very impressive individuals. I don't know why they're not more prominent.
Meeting Ó Muilleoir was probably one of my all time disappointments. I really thought he was a step up on the rest. Turns out he is very arrogant and has a handshake like a limp fish
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ronnie on November 20, 2019, 11:08:10 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 20, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?

Look what happened to John O'D!

The election for vice chairperson was straight out of the communist Russia playbook. No debate or hustings and no voting results. John O'Dowd will no doubt be ostracised as a result.

Or maybe he'll do the honourable thing and say to Doug Beattie 'you take my votes.  This is a unionist seat that I can't win:  (SF take their fair share of abuse)
General election 2017: Upper Bann[6][7]
Party   Candidate   Votes   %   ±
DUP   David Simpson   22,317   43.5   +10.9
Sinn Féin   John O'Dowd   14,325   27.9   +3.4
UUP   Doug Beattie   7,900   15.4   -12.5
SDLP   Declan McAlinden   4,397   8.6   -0.4
Alliance   Tara Doyle   2,319   4.5   +0.8
Majority   7,992   15.6   +11.9
Turnout   51,257   63.9   +4.9
Registered electors   80,168      
DUP hold   Swing   +3.73   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 21, 2019, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 21, 2019, 09:18:47 AM
https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/11/18/and-what-of-sinn-feins-invisible-internal-democracy/ (https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/11/18/and-what-of-sinn-feins-invisible-internal-democracy/)

This is a problem for a political party in any society, and not least for Sinn Fein, which underlines in its Statement of Principles "We propose absolute accountability and transparency in government".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: uimhr ocht on November 21, 2019, 09:46:33 AM
I think its Sinn Feins decision alone that they can decide if they want disclose the result of leadership challenge or not,the media like to stir things alot especially when their is an election campaign ongoing which is most likely why they havent disclosed the result.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: haranguerer on November 21, 2019, 10:07:32 AM
Mick Fealty hates SF so much that anything he writes about them should be discounted. His recent article and subsequent interview on Nolan this morning were car crash stuff. Even Nolan telling him he was talking crap about SF getting an easy ride. He was just completely out of his depth. A clown
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: t_mac on November 21, 2019, 10:14:07 AM
Has Mickey Brady ever spoke on TV, even done the View or any decent political programme?  Suspect you could run a anyone in Newry and Armagh for Shinners and they would get in - depressing stuff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 21, 2019, 10:29:34 AM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on November 21, 2019, 09:46:33 AM
I think its Sinn Feins decision alone that they can decide if they want disclose the result of leadership challenge or not,the media like to stir things alot especially when their is an election campaign ongoing which is most likely why they havent disclosed the result.

I disagree. If they were a business then fine but they are a political party who's members are in public jobs in receipt of tax payers money and they potentially pass laws which affects everyone. I think its everyone business. The least we can expect is that they uphold some democratic principles.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 21, 2019, 10:46:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2019, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on November 21, 2019, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PMI have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.
Unfiltered hatred my arse, but whatever about having a hatred of SF, but of northern nationalism? Where the f**k did you pull that one out of?

As for the rest of that nonsense, curiously enough we are entitled to express about anything we like here, and few if any here grumble when those in the North opine on matters in the Republic, more so since I can't recall making much or any comment about the troubles here at any stage. And I'd be fairly sympathetic towards the republican campaign compared to most, I do come from what is often classed as a "border county", Enniskillen is closer to me than Dublin or Galway, and I'd have visited it more often growing up. I just don't like SF as a party, and too many of its party reps and its supporters online and offline make it easy to feel that way. SF is not northern nationalism much as some of its more devoted fans will try to portray it as such. And they arethe third largest party in ROI so they're not entirely an irrelevance as you suggest, though they seem rather unwilling to partake in government when the opportunity presents itself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on November 21, 2019, 11:49:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

That sounds awful like partitionism to me! Are you sure you're not a stoop or a unionist? Anyone from "down south" who speaks like that seems to be automatically given one of those labels...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 21, 2019, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 21, 2019, 10:46:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2019, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".

I don't really have time to refute all those claims just now, but this Vote Colm get Mike is one I want to come back on.
Of course it is Vote Colm, get Mike. IT'S MANDATORY COALITION! Who do you think you'd get? Angela Merkel? It was an plea to the middle ground. Like it or not Stormont was a power sharing executive. SF shared power with IAN PAISLEY!! And as Eastwood and Nesbitt both pointed out at the time - Vote Michelle or Arlene and you'll get Theresa May! So this just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on November 21, 2019, 12:21:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2019, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 21, 2019, 10:46:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2019, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".

I don't really have time to refute all those claims just now, but this Vote Colm get Mike is one I want to come back on.
Of course it is Vote Colm, get Mike. IT'S MANDATORY COALITION! Who do you think you'd get? Angela Merkel? It was an plea to the middle ground. Like it or not Stormont was a power sharing executive. SF shared power with IAN PAISLEY!! And as Eastwood and Nesbitt both pointed out at the time - Vote Michelle or Arlene and you'll get Theresa May! So this just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all.
It might have been a catchy slogan if not a well advised one, but at that time after almost a decade of DUP/SF dominating Stormont and marginalising their rival parties with the help of the powersharing setup, the SDLP and UUP decided to try something different and offer an alternative to them, as they were perfectly entitled to do. This was incidentally after a relatively poor series of elections for SF in terms of their votes dropping. Then by the end of the year they moved to bring the Executive down.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 21, 2019, 01:04:52 PM
It isn't SDLP that SF will have to worry about in the years to come. A lot of moderate nationalists will vote Alliance. In truth they hold the key to a United Ireland, not SF or the DUP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on November 21, 2019, 01:28:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 21, 2019, 10:46:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2019, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".

Can i add Austin Curry, but remove John Hume from that list?
       I think in any other society apart from the sectarian hole he was born into, Hume would never even have become a politician.
        He was ill suited to the sort of backstabbing and skullduggery that went on in his own party what with Mallon et al. He was a realist and not a quasi-unionist. He was/is a good man.
   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on November 21, 2019, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 21, 2019, 10:46:15 AM

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".

You could argue that is all true if you take things very literally. But the best chances of securing a United Ireland is via moderate positions and a smattering of plamás to the Unionist community. The reality is the extreme positions of Sinn Fein will never woo moderate Unionists into a United Ireland, just like the extreme views of DUP and other Unionists will never woo nationalist community in the other direction. I saw a poll fairly recently that had Leo Varadkar as the most popular "nationalist" leader in the six counties. You may see Fine Gael as Unionist (that's what I would call an extreme view) but the likes of Leo (love him or hate him), projects a more tolerant and modern view of what a United Ireland could be and that will secure moderate Unionist votes. When a border poll comes, I do hope Sinn Fein will have the good sense to sit on the sidelines just like they smartly did with Brexit. It's more moderate nationalist voices that should be left to project the vision of the New Ireland. The dogs in the street know that Seamus Mallon would jump for joy with 50%+1 for a United Ireland. But there's nothing wrong with a bit of plamás saying we really need more than that to be in favour for it to work. That kind of chat disarms Unionists. But the minute one starts shouting the other stuff from the rooftops (Hello Mary Lou) is the minute it becomes militant Orange v Green, which they love, and which they are trying to make the upcoming election about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2019, 02:04:35 PM
Fine Gael may be a somewhat partitionist party, but they are not a unionist party and standing for them to go to the European parliament is in no way comparable with taking a Peerage.
I don't agree with all his views, but in no way is  Michael McDowell a racist, in my opinion, or even a partitionist.

Quote from: weareros on November 21, 2019, 01:57:30 PM
You could argue that is all true if you take things very literally. But the best chances of securing a United Ireland is via moderate positions and a smattering of plamás to the Unionist community. The reality is the extreme positions of Sinn Fein will never woo moderate Unionists into a United Ireland, just like the extreme views of DUP and other Unionists will never woo nationalist community in the other direction. I saw a poll fairly recently that had Leo Varadkar as the most popular "nationalist" leader in the six counties. You may see Fine Gael as Unionist (that's what I would call an extreme view) but the likes of Leo (love him or hate him), projects a more tolerant and modern view of what a United Ireland could be and that will secure moderate Unionist votes. When a border poll comes, I do hope Sinn Fein will have the good sense to sit on the sidelines just like they smartly did with Brexit. It's more moderate nationalist voices that should be left to project the vision of the New Ireland. The dogs in the street know that Seamus Mallon would jump for joy with 50%+1 for a United Ireland. But there's nothing wrong with a bit of plamás saying we really need more than that to be in favour for it to work. That kind of chat disarms Unionists. But the minute one starts shouting the other stuff from the rooftops (Hello Mary Lou) is the minute it becomes militant Orange v Green, which they love, and which they are trying to make the upcoming election about.

Not only will the extreme positions of SF never persuade anyone outside the cult, but the "right wing" policies have done a lot to make Ireland prosperous which will do more to bring about a united Ireland than SF has ever done. SF economic fairytales remain an obstacle to a united Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: uimhr ocht on November 21, 2019, 02:20:15 PM
If a border poll say was called in 5 yrs time it would be interesting to see if Alliance would canvass staying in the union outwith europe or in an all ireland within the EU,personally i think they would stay in the union.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 21, 2019, 03:13:56 PM
I  suspect Alliance would not take  part in a campaign for either option.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 21, 2019, 06:47:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2019, 10:19:11 PM
Quote from: grounded on November 20, 2019, 11:11:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2019, 10:24:09 PM
I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

Maybe i'm misreading this, but why did you vote for them if this is your view?

I voted SF when they only got 10% of the vote. The military campaign was still in full flow. I lived in a totally militarised area of Derry where you were fully aware that you were occupied by a foreign and oppressive army. The ruc were worse. A high proportion of our street was either in the Ra, irps, stickies or at least sympathisers. It was a clannish them against us thing. Throughout this time you conditioned yourself to sort of ignore the atrocities committed by republicans as the Brits were the bigger fish that needed fríed.
As peace descended a new phenomenon occurred. Essentially the Brits bought us off. They ensured all community groups came under SF control through nepotism etc. It was the money drug that the shinners could not resist, but only they get to avail of it. An increasing percentage of party members seemed to become unable to free think, and those thst did were crushed or expelled. The party gave no free vote on abortion, they celebrated it like all ireland final. The introduced welfare reforms, they dished our SIF unfairly. They have been devisive even on the language question here in Derry. Splitting schools to ensure control away from CCC, I couid go on for hours.

The south is completely different place - times have changed completely re: issues like abortion and ssm, whatever your opinion is. North, both sides are still fundemental right wing. 

I actually agree church and schools should be seperate - too much power still at the CC. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 21, 2019, 06:57:33 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 21, 2019, 10:07:32 AM
Mick Fealty hates SF so much that anything he writes about them should be discounted. His recent article and subsequent interview on Nolan this morning were car crash stuff. Even Nolan telling him he was talking crap about SF getting an easy ride. He was just completely out of his depth. A clown

He' out of his league now - tries to be relevant by being controversial.

Trying to help Dodds win nth. Belfast. He was on Nolan talking waffle.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on November 22, 2019, 11:59:22 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 21, 2019, 06:57:33 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 21, 2019, 10:07:32 AM
Mick Fealty hates SF so much that anything he writes about them should be discounted. His recent article and subsequent interview on Nolan this morning were car crash stuff. Even Nolan telling him he was talking crap about SF getting an easy ride. He was just completely out of his depth. A clown

He' out of his league now - tries to be relevant by being controversial.

Trying to help Dodds win nth. Belfast. He was on Nolan talking waffle.

I'd have a wee nosey in on Slugger every now and then and I think Micks blind hatred for the Shinners is based on that a lot of his (better) contributors are all of a nationalist persuasion and he's keen to keep his blog/forum as evenly balanced as he can so that it isn't perceived to be a hotbed of nationalism.

Some unionist/loyalist contributors have already dropped off due to getting holes picked in their arguments/viewpoints.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 22, 2019, 03:21:13 PM
Another boo boo in Foyle from Elisha. Last week she was slagging off Cornshell now she has been caught out saying she is bringing the Fleadh back to derry
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 22, 2019, 03:50:02 PM
When you look at the mess some other political parties are in it is not surprising that SF try and control the narrative, it makes sense. Many including some on here still subscribe to the notion that unionists are still in the majority, they aren't. Whilst it provided the usual suspects with a stick to beat SF with it is not unusual for there to be uncontested elections or results not published. SF however and nationalism are always set a higher bar than unionism. Hence the allegation that South and North Belfast is sectarianism but FST is just good sense. We on the nationalist side have been, and continue to be much more sensitive to unionist feelings than is reciprocated. SF are not blemish free but neither are any of the other political parties. I welcome the publication of the results and would believe that O'Dowd would be a better Northern leader than O'Neill. They need to look at allowing more freedom to challengers rather than pretending that all are on the same page. And finally 25 years after the troubles SF are still being tarred with the SF/IRA brush and army council crap.Many current SF reps were still in nappies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on November 22, 2019, 05:09:23 PM
Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:41:39 PM
Any truth in the rumour that Mr. O'Muilleoir is going to throw his toys out of the pram & do a Prince Andrew?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 22, 2019, 08:44:58 PM
Quote from: skeog on November 22, 2019, 05:09:23 PM
Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.

Right fire out the list of her achievements.

Her husband attacked a pensioner, she approached them to drop charges.
2 close associates were expelled from party because they posted a photo in a hotel room at the Derry volunteers dance forgetting there was Columbian party powder on the table. She posted that the people of a working class area of Derry shoukd come to the door as it wasn't debt collectors, she lies constantly about achievements, latest being the fleadh, she is only where she is because Martina anderson is her aunt
But besides that she's dead on
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:50:33 PM
Quote from: skeog on November 22, 2019, 05:09:23 PM
Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.

In fairness - it's pretty difficult to see how you could be both @ the same time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 22, 2019, 08:52:54 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:50:33 PM
Quote from: skeog on November 22, 2019, 05:09:23 PM
Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.

In fairness - it's pretty difficult to see how you could be both @ the same time.

Exactly
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on November 23, 2019, 11:06:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 22, 2019, 08:44:58 PM
Quote from: skeog on November 22, 2019, 05:09:23 PM
Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.

Right fire out the list of her achievements.

Her husband attacked a pensioner, she approached them to drop charges.
2 close associates were expelled from party because they posted a photo in a hotel room at the Derry volunteers dance forgetting there was Columbian party powder on the table. She posted that the people of a working class area of Derry shoukd come to the door as it wasn't debt collectors, she lies constantly about achievements, latest being the fleadh, she is only where she is because Martina anderson is her aunt
But besides that she's dead on

Don't forget she loves big fancy hotel rooms
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2019, 01:21:45 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 23, 2019, 11:06:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 22, 2019, 08:44:58 PM
Quote from: skeog on November 22, 2019, 05:09:23 PM
Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.

Right fire out the list of her achievements.

Her husband attacked a pensioner, she approached them to drop charges.
2 close associates were expelled from party because they posted a photo in a hotel room at the Derry volunteers dance forgetting there was Columbian party powder on the table. She posted that the people of a working class area of Derry shoukd come to the door as it wasn't debt collectors, she lies constantly about achievements, latest being the fleadh, she is only where she is because Martina anderson is her aunt
But besides that she's dead on

Don't forget she loves big fancy hotel rooms

Forgot about that. Clueless. Amatureish, zero class
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 28, 2019, 09:57:25 AM
I am hearing that Michelle Gildernew could be in trouble in FST. Caroline Wheeler could eat into her vote. I don't know much about her but I think she was involved in a lot of constituency work around health and the Fermanagh abuse scandal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 28, 2019, 04:15:33 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50586471#comp-comments-button

This is what our politicians have delivered, not the stuff you see in their bluffing tweets, SF and DUP need pounded at the polling box
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on November 28, 2019, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 28, 2019, 04:15:33 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50586471#comp-comments-button

This is what our politicians have delivered, not the stuff you see in their bluffing tweets, SF and DUP need pounded at the polling box

Without trying to defend SF/DUP, it's not just their fault. Pre-recession, there was always lengthy waiting lists. Stormont is handed loose change from London and told to sort out the north. They never got enough money or never will.

SF/DUP know the reality of the situation. Which is why they use diversionary politics to cover up the fact they can't change a big pile
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 28, 2019, 06:16:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2019, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 28, 2019, 04:15:33 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50586471#comp-comments-button

This is what our politicians have delivered, not the stuff you see in their bluffing tweets, SF and DUP need pounded at the polling box

Without trying to defend SF/DUP, it's not just their fault. Pre-recession, there was always lengthy waiting lists. Stormont is handed loose change from London and told to sort out the north. They never got enough money or never will.

SF/DUP know the reality of the situation. Which is why they use diversionary politics to cover up the fact they can't change a big pile

Waiting lists have increased by 8% in last year, this is at a more quicker rate than when we had some sort of local agreement or government
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 29, 2019, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 28, 2019, 06:16:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2019, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 28, 2019, 04:15:33 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50586471#comp-comments-button

This is what our politicians have delivered, not the stuff you see in their bluffing tweets, SF and DUP need pounded at the polling box

Without trying to defend SF/DUP, it's not just their fault. Pre-recession, there was always lengthy waiting lists. Stormont is handed loose change from London and told to sort out the north. They never got enough money or never will.

SF/DUP know the reality of the situation. Which is why they use diversionary politics to cover up the fact they can't change a big pile

Waiting lists have increased by 8% in last year, this is at a more quicker rate than when we had some sort of local agreement or government

It's a real SF and DUP tactic. Waiting lists was always a problem. It Tory austerity. Blah, Blah, Blah. People here, I hope take this opportunity at the ballot box to tell SF and the DUP to get back to work or they'll be replaced. I read that Doctors and Consultants in NI are hoping that their own relatives don't get ill because they know the health service is fucked and they won't be treated. People are literally dying.

If Westminster doesn't matter (as SF keep telling us) then don't vote for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2019, 11:40:31 AM
Reports this morning suggest that no matter what Leo and Mícheál might be saying in public that the GE in the 26 will be in February.
Some in the Blueshirts talking of running with the old fashioned "red scare" tactic that FF/SF will be the most
left wing Government ever.....
FF probably will find their roots again and promise a load of house building plans etc while trying to airbrush their 4 years of support for FG, plus their Bertie/McCreevy neo liberal era.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 17, 2019, 01:15:32 PM
Interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50819844 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50819844)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2019, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 17, 2019, 01:15:32 PM
Interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50819844 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50819844)

RHI due out. Must another skeleton in there too
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 17, 2019, 01:40:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2019, 11:40:31 AM
Reports this morning suggest that no matter what Leo and Mícheál might be saying in public that the GE in the 26 will be in February.
Some in the Blueshirts talking of running with the old fashioned "red scare" tactic that FF/SF will be the most
left wing Government ever.....
FF probably will find their roots again and promise a load of house building plans etc while trying to airbrush their 4 years of support for FG, plus their Bertie/McCreevy neo liberal era.

Dont forget the Greens, likely to make some gains. It will come down to one of FG and FF with one of SF and Greens.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on December 17, 2019, 02:24:05 PM
FF seem happy enough with the current arrangement. Can't see either of the main parties wanting to go into a coalition with SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2019, 03:18:29 PM
If the Shinners under their present non leader repeat their Local and Euro election showing there'll be no need for them to worry about Coalition.
Greens will do well I suspect especially with young city and town folks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 17, 2019, 03:20:21 PM
I'd say the leadership has one more election in them North and South.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2019, 03:23:43 PM
Maryloo always reminds me of the type that becomes Chair of some local "action group" set up to oppose something.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on December 17, 2019, 03:27:44 PM
Pearse Doherty must be the next leader imo streets ahead of Dublin Mary.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 17, 2019, 03:34:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2019, 03:23:43 PM
Maryloo always reminds me of the type that becomes Chair of some local "action group" set up to oppose something.

A career politician.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on December 17, 2019, 03:45:24 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50819844 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50819844)

A few quitting it seems.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 17, 2019, 03:54:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2019, 05:21:17 PM
Without trying to defend SF/DUP, it's not just their fault. Pre-recession, there was always lengthy waiting lists. Stormont is handed loose change from London and told to sort out the north. They never got enough money or never will.

WHAT?!?! That is utter balls man!

Per head, the amount of money this place gets is monsterous.

Its mostly pissed away by decisions or non-decisions in Stormont. So no getting away from it - its all on SF & DUP.

QuoteIn 2018/19, public spending per person in the UK as a whole was £9,584.
In England, it was £9,296 (3% below the UK average). This compares with:
• Scotland: £11,247 (17% above the UK average)
• Wales: £10,656 (11% above the UK average)
• Northern Ireland £11,590 (21% above the UK average).

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04033/SN04033.pdf
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 17, 2019, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on December 17, 2019, 02:24:05 PM
FF seem happy enough with the current arrangement. Can't see either of the main parties wanting to go into a coalition with SF.

Ah now, you are not that naive are you. The slippy FF gangsters were staying away from Brexit while at the same time holding the minority government to ransom. They'd sell their mothers to be in power and will jump into bed with just about anyone to do it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on December 17, 2019, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 17, 2019, 03:54:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2019, 05:21:17 PM
Without trying to defend SF/DUP, it's not just their fault. Pre-recession, there was always lengthy waiting lists. Stormont is handed loose change from London and told to sort out the north. They never got enough money or never will.

WHAT?!?! That is utter balls man!

Per head, the amount of money this place gets is monsterous.

Its mostly pissed away by decisions or non-decisions in Stormont. So no getting away from it - its all on SF & DUP.

QuoteIn 2018/19, public spending per person in the UK as a whole was £9,584.
In England, it was £9,296 (3% below the UK average). This compares with:
• Scotland: £11,247 (17% above the UK average)
• Wales: £10,656 (11% above the UK average)
• Northern Ireland £11,590 (21% above the UK average).

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04033/SN04033.pdf

Whilst you're not wrong on the obligations of SF and the DUP in how money is spent here I think it would be remiss not to bring the cosy cartel at the top of the various Civil Service branches under scrutiny.

Take health for instance, far too many different trusts and the top heavy overheads there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 17, 2019, 04:39:18 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 17, 2019, 04:20:08 PM
Whilst you're not wrong on the obligations of SF and the DUP in how money is spent here I think it would be remiss not to bring the cosy cartel at the top of the various Civil Service branches under scrutiny.

Take health for instance, far too many different trusts and the top heavy overheads there.

Oh absolutely agree with you that the civil service bears a massive responsibility for the farce in infrastructure and services here despite the money poured in over a sustained period of time.

But whose job is it to sort the civil service out if not the politicians?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:41:39 PM
Any truth in the rumour that Mr. O'Muilleoir is going to throw his toys out of the pram & do a Prince Andrew?

Ah...my prediction a month ago on here was spot on then!!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 17, 2019, 05:00:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 17, 2019, 04:39:18 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 17, 2019, 04:20:08 PM
Whilst you're not wrong on the obligations of SF and the DUP in how money is spent here I think it would be remiss not to bring the cosy cartel at the top of the various Civil Service branches under scrutiny.

Take health for instance, far too many different trusts and the top heavy overheads there.

Oh absolutely agree with you that the civil service bears a massive responsibility for the farce in infrastructure and services here despite the money poured in over a sustained period of time.

But whose job is it to sort the civil service out if not the politicians?

The buck stops with ministers and of course the civil service is full of civil servants which doesn't help but Stormont has been down more than it's been up and that causes all sorts of problems. If we had some sort of functioning government, heaps of these issues would be sorted, even if was populated with SF and DUP politicians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 05:11:02 PM
There are several problems:
1). Most Stormont ministers that are appointed are simply not up to the task of running a department.
2). The 2 major parties will continue to divide the spoils up between them, to ensure that their pet projects and wee local 'community' groups are fully funded, thus extending their power, patronage & influence.
I honestly don't see the talent's there & the 'we need an Executive' mantra will start to sound very hollow when they get ministers in place & then we suddenly remember how crap local politicians really are, when they're let loose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 17, 2019, 05:49:46 PM
Problem is these people shouldn't be in charge - we'd need Michael O'Leary to come in to certain portfolios and wipe out the middle management and wasteage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2019, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:41:39 PM
Any truth in the rumour that Mr. O'Muilleoir is going to throw his toys out of the pram & do a Prince Andrew?

Ah...my prediction a month ago on here was spot on then!!!!

Elaborate. All I can say is he has the creepiest handshake I've ever had. Always to be suspected. Was like a wet fish
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 17, 2019, 06:05:48 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 05:11:02 PM
There are several problems:
1). Most Stormont ministers politicans that are appointed are simply not up to the task of running a department.

Fixed that for ya.

Another one of the reasons I think representative democracy is a load of sh|t.  If any of the politicans had to submit a CV for interview for the post, I'd wager very few would be read beyond the 3rd or 4th line before making shapes for the bin.

The number of politicians that are qualified for a ministerial role tends to zero. That is not unique to NI (or the UK).


Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 05:11:02 PM
2). The 2 major parties will continue to divide the spoils up between them, to ensure that their pet projects and wee local 'community' groups are fully funded, thus extending their power, patronage & influence.
I honestly don't see the talent's there & the 'we need an Executive' mantra will start to sound very hollow when they get ministers in place & then we suddenly remember how crap local politicians really are, when they're let loose.

Agreed. Stormont returning is not going to see resolution to much. Just moving the blame around from one bunch of inept f88kwits (civil service) to another bunch of inept f88kwits (politicians)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2019, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:41:39 PM
Any truth in the rumour that Mr. O'Muilleoir is going to throw his toys out of the pram & do a Prince Andrew?

Ah...my prediction a month ago on here was spot on then!!!!

Elaborate. All I can say is he has the creepiest handshake I've ever had. Always to be suspected. Was like a wet fish

Don't need to! I was told a month ago that he had fundamentally disagreed with the decision to stand aside in South Belfast in the general election & that he had decided to go. My source proved correct, after all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: under the bar on December 17, 2019, 07:14:21 PM
So the rumours that there's a video about to emerge of MO'M  and Ian Óg spit-roasting  Little-Penguinly are wide of the mark then?  Shame!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on December 17, 2019, 07:52:41 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2019, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:41:39 PM
Any truth in the rumour that Mr. O'Muilleoir is going to throw his toys out of the pram & do a Prince Andrew?

Ah...my prediction a month ago on here was spot on then!!!!

Elaborate. All I can say is he has the creepiest handshake I've ever had. Always to be suspected. Was like a wet fish

Don't need to! I was told a month ago that he had fundamentally disagreed with the decision to stand aside in South Belfast in the general election & that he had decided to go. My source proved correct, after all.
But thought he was moving to the USA as his newspaper group is also up for sale and he seems to spend a lot of time there?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 17, 2019, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2019, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:41:39 PM
Any truth in the rumour that Mr. O'Muilleoir is going to throw his toys out of the pram & do a Prince Andrew?

Ah...my prediction a month ago on here was spot on then!!!!

Elaborate. All I can say is he has the creepiest handshake I've ever had. Always to be suspected. Was like a wet fish

Don't need to! I was told a month ago that he had fundamentally disagreed with the decision to stand aside in South Belfast in the general election & that he had decided to go. My source proved correct, after all.

He always struck me as a lad who was only in politics as a short-term operator - to get elected as an MLA in the leafy suburbs of south Belfast.  Best option the Shinners had...at that time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 09:00:49 PM
Quote from: Rois on December 17, 2019, 07:52:41 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2019, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:41:39 PM
Any truth in the rumour that Mr. O'Muilleoir is going to throw his toys out of the pram & do a Prince Andrew?

Ah...my prediction a month ago on here was spot on then!!!!

Elaborate. All I can say is he has the creepiest handshake I've ever had. Always to be suspected. Was like a wet fish

Don't need to! I was told a month ago that he had fundamentally disagreed with the decision to stand aside in South Belfast in the general election & that he had decided to go. My source proved correct, after all.
But thought he was moving to the USA as his newspaper group is also up for sale and he seems to spend a lot of time there?

Is he not being paid a salary to be an MLA for South Belfast at Stormont, or does he just go off to North America on Aer Lingus (business class, no doubt) whenever he chooses? Is it any wonder the electorate think they're being taken for a ride by these idiots?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 17, 2019, 09:06:22 PM
Martin is a millionaire. He wasn't a politician for the money. More for the profile.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 09:14:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 17, 2019, 09:06:22 PM
Martin is a millionaire. He wasn't a politician for the money. More for the profile.

Didn't unduly have to give a shite then? Why enter politics - well, apart from ego, as you say?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 17, 2019, 10:00:07 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 09:14:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 17, 2019, 09:06:22 PM
Martin is a millionaire. He wasn't a politician for the money. More for the profile.

Didn't unduly have to give a shite then? Why enter politics - well, apart from ego, as you say?

Profile I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 18, 2019, 12:18:35 AM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2019, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on November 22, 2019, 08:41:39 PM
Any truth in the rumour that Mr. O'Muilleoir is going to throw his toys out of the pram & do a Prince Andrew?

Ah...my prediction a month ago on here was spot on then!!!!

Elaborate. All I can say is he has the creepiest handshake I've ever had. Always to be suspected. Was like a wet fish

Don't need to! I was told a month ago that he had fundamentally disagreed with the decision to stand aside in South Belfast in the general election & that he had decided to go. My source proved correct, after all.

Ballix! He was for stepping down long before the election was even called.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on December 18, 2019, 09:20:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 17, 2019, 05:00:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 17, 2019, 04:39:18 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 17, 2019, 04:20:08 PM
Whilst you're not wrong on the obligations of SF and the DUP in how money is spent here I think it would be remiss not to bring the cosy cartel at the top of the various Civil Service branches under scrutiny.

Take health for instance, far too many different trusts and the top heavy overheads there.

Oh absolutely agree with you that the civil service bears a massive responsibility for the farce in infrastructure and services here despite the money poured in over a sustained period of time.

But whose job is it to sort the civil service out if not the politicians?

The buck stops with ministers and of course the civil service is full of civil servants which doesn't help but Stormont has been down more than it's been up and that causes all sorts of problems. If we had some sort of functioning government, heaps of these issues would be sorted, even if was populated with SF and DUP politicians.

Take David Sterling for instance. Highly involved in the RHI scandal yet gets promoted (by whom)?

Who has the power to get rid of him?

I can't remember the senior civil servants name but was secretly recorded by fellow evangelical christian Jonny Bell in the midst of the same scandal and felt at ease because of their "similar interests".
I'd be weary of the christian element of the high ranks in the NI Civil Service as well.
Good living for a living.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 20, 2019, 12:43:32 PM
Compare Conor Murphy's performance on GMU this morning with the rambling speedy Gonzales that is Michelle O'Neill. Time to change her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on December 20, 2019, 03:34:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 20, 2019, 12:43:32 PM
Compare Conor Murphy's performance on GMU this morning with the rambling speedy Gonzales that is Michelle O'Neill. Time to change her.
If only the party had been given an opportunity to remove her from her leadership role...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 20, 2019, 08:21:05 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on December 20, 2019, 03:34:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 20, 2019, 12:43:32 PM
Compare Conor Murphy's performance on GMU this morning with the rambling speedy Gonzales that is Michelle O'Neill. Time to change her.
If only the party had been given a meaningful opportunity to remove her from her leadership role...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 20, 2019, 08:50:07 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 20, 2019, 08:21:05 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on December 20, 2019, 03:34:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 20, 2019, 12:43:32 PM
Compare Conor Murphy's performance on GMU this morning with the rambling speedy Gonzales that is Michelle O'Neill. Time to change her.
If only the party had been given a meaningful opportunity to remove her from her leadership role...

SF need to change leadership and get new younger people on board.  Murphy, Doherty and O'Dowd should be the leaders.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 20, 2019, 08:56:23 PM
In that case, has Megan Fearon advanced any credible reason for packing Stormont in, or is it all top secret??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 20, 2019, 09:45:16 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 20, 2019, 08:56:23 PM
In that case, has Megan Fearon advanced any credible reason for packing Stormont in, or is it all top secret??

Probably fed up waiting around for the Stormont gig to get sorted - probably thinks opportunities are better elsewhere.  Capable, like Simon Hamilton but more chances outwith politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 20, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
Did Hamilton not say way too much in front of the RHI Panel & basically he formed the view that he ought to jump, before Arlene arranged for his P45 to be delivered to him?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 20, 2019, 10:12:39 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on December 20, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
Did Hamilton not say way too much in front of the RHI Panel & basically he formed the view that he ought to jump, before Arlene arranged for his P45 to be delivered to him?

I couldn't possible comment!

I think he's working with the Belfast Chamber of Commerce now - he was on the radio the other day.  Seems very capable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on December 20, 2019, 10:16:21 PM
Yes....the question being.......why are people like Hamilton / Agnew / Fearon (the so called 'younger generation', who might have been expected to try to turn things around, without any baggage) all leaving local politics, simultaneously?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 31, 2019, 11:11:36 AM
Anderson at it again, Brits need to go home nonsense. Christ does she ever need a gag. SF will continue to leach support with this clown and her utterances. Have they learned nothing from the pasting at the GE.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
???
"These are not appropriate comments to make and are not the views of Sinn Féin."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on January 17, 2020, 12:38:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.

Never heard of the lad till this week but his views are pretty reprehensible and was made apologise (which was pretty poor IMO) for the Varadkar comments.

His latest outburst should see the end of his political career but I don't know how you can say the Shinners are defending him especially after reading that Joe.ie article.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
???
"These are not appropriate comments to make and are not the views of Sinn Féin."

Ms McDonald said she believed Mr Holohan said he was misinterpreted because he was probably frustrated that the remarks gave the impression he held views different to the ones he is associated with.

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 17, 2020, 12:48:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
???
"These are not appropriate comments to make and are not the views of Sinn Féin."

Ms McDonald said she believed Mr Holohan said he was misinterpreted because he was probably frustrated that the remarks gave the impression he held views different to the ones he is associated with.

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/)
\
Don't see any defence of his position in this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 17, 2020, 12:59:28 PM
Fr o neill in coalisland certainly has little time for them!!

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/priest-banned-sinn-fein-from-meeting-in-his-church-hall-over-abortion-stance-pro-life-group-claims-38869005.html?fbclid=IwAR1I8QKKr_w-UZdHRNOnpNtiqCPO0C3PzlGrqz-syNCBls4OaG3c_i8JQko  (https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/priest-banned-sinn-fein-from-meeting-in-his-church-hall-over-abortion-stance-pro-life-group-claims-38869005.html?fbclid=IwAR1I8QKKr_w-UZdHRNOnpNtiqCPO0C3PzlGrqz-syNCBls4OaG3c_i8JQko)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on January 17, 2020, 01:17:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
???
"These are not appropriate comments to make and are not the views of Sinn Féin."

Ms McDonald said she believed Mr Holohan said he was misinterpreted because he was probably frustrated that the remarks gave the impression he held views different to the ones he is associated with.

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/)

Looks like the Banjo player from Deliverance. Enough said.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 17, 2020, 01:47:44 PM
Shinners have suspended him.

Looks like he took one too many belts to the head.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2020, 01:53:56 PM

This is the eejit that Elisha McCallion was using to help bump up votes in recent election. Hi no odds he will probably be back in few months like that buck eejit McElduff
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tyrone08 on January 17, 2020, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
???
"These are not appropriate comments to make and are not the views of Sinn Féin."

Ms McDonald said she believed Mr Holohan said he was misinterpreted because he was probably frustrated that the remarks gave the impression he held views different to the ones he is associated with.

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/)
Don't shoot me here but in regards to the family man comments I don't really see anything wrong with it. A father  who goes to work and has kids in school would better understand the struggles of juggling work, pick ups, childcare costs etc over a person with no kids.

Much in the same way that a woman would far better understand women's issues than a man would.

I don't see how anyone could take offence by that. The other comment however about heritage was rather stupid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 17, 2020, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
???
"These are not appropriate comments to make and are not the views of Sinn Féin."

Ms McDonald said she believed Mr Holohan said he was misinterpreted because he was probably frustrated that the remarks gave the impression he held views different to the ones he is associated with.

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/)
Don't shoot me here but in regards to the family man comments I don't really see anything wrong with it. A father  who goes to work and has kids in school would better understand the struggles of juggling work, pick ups, childcare costs etc over a person with no kids.

Much in the same way that a woman would far better understand women's issues than a man would.

I don't see how anyone could take offence by that. The other comment however about heritage was rather stupid.

It had serious homophobic undertones
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tyrone08 on January 17, 2020, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 17, 2020, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
???
"These are not appropriate comments to make and are not the views of Sinn Féin."

Ms McDonald said she believed Mr Holohan said he was misinterpreted because he was probably frustrated that the remarks gave the impression he held views different to the ones he is associated with.

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/)
Don't shoot me here but in regards to the family man comments I don't really see anything wrong with it. A father  who goes to work and has kids in school would better understand the struggles of juggling work, pick ups, childcare costs etc over a person with no kids.

Much in the same way that a woman would far better understand women's issues than a man would.

I don't see how anyone could take offence by that. The other comment however about heritage was rather stupid.

It had serious homophobic undertones

If it had then of course he is in the wrong. I have just read the clips in the newspaper and was reading them at face value.

Just by reading the comments it could apply to any single policital such as Angela Merkel. Leo being gay should not come into the equation. I wonder if people are reading the undertones because Leo is gay and if that is the case then any warranted criticism can be swotted away as homophobic.

Clearly if he was only saying it due to Leo being gay then it's out of order.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on January 18, 2020, 02:21:10 PM
Wee Jamie wants to know how they're going to prevent discrimination against non-Irish speakers when it comes to recruitment for the the position of... Irish language translators.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on January 18, 2020, 02:46:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 18, 2020, 02:21:10 PM
Wee Jamie wants to know how they're going to prevent discrimination against non-Irish speakers when it comes to recruitment for the the position of... Irish language translators.

Now, that's a puzzler.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on January 18, 2020, 02:56:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 18, 2020, 02:46:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 18, 2020, 02:21:10 PM
Wee Jamie wants to know how they're going to prevent discrimination against non-Irish speakers when it comes to recruitment for the the position of... Irish language translators.

Now, that's a puzzler.

Stick 'must possess basic knowledge of Ulster Scots' within your 'Desirable' criteria & it's nae problem Jimmy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on January 19, 2020, 02:58:13 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 17, 2020, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 17, 2020, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
???
"These are not appropriate comments to make and are not the views of Sinn Féin."

Ms McDonald said she believed Mr Holohan said he was misinterpreted because he was probably frustrated that the remarks gave the impression he held views different to the ones he is associated with.

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/)
Don't shoot me here but in regards to the family man comments I don't really see anything wrong with it. A father  who goes to work and has kids in school would better understand the struggles of juggling work, pick ups, childcare costs etc over a person with no kids.

Much in the same way that a woman would far better understand women's issues than a man would.

I don't see how anyone could take offence by that. The other comment however about heritage was rather stupid.

It had serious homophobic undertones

If it had then of course he is in the wrong. I have just read the clips in the newspaper and was reading them at face value.

Just by reading the comments it could apply to any single policital such as Angela Merkel. Leo being gay should not come into the equation. I wonder if people are reading the undertones because Leo is gay and if that is the case then any warranted criticism can be swotted away as homophobic.

Clearly if he was only saying it due to Leo being gay then it's out of order.
Possibly if he had made an isolated comment about 'Family Man', Holohan might have got away with a yellow card,  but that coupled with the reference to Leo's Indian background separating him from Irish history, not only highlights the homophobic bias but dives full on into fascist ideology - Blood and Soil.   Here Holohan hits two birds with the one stone, Leo's ethnicity and he implicitly states that an Irish person's connection to Ireland runs through generations of Irish blood. He goes further to imply that the pure Irish connection to Irish history only/mainly  flows via the father, possibly there's a drip feed from the mother, but insignificant.
Out and out total gobshitery.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 19, 2020, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 19, 2020, 02:58:13 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 17, 2020, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 17, 2020, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 17, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Paddy Holohan proving to be a great addition to the Party in the south!!

https://www.joe.ie/politics/sinn-fein-distances-paddy-holohan-councillor-suggested-underage-girls-making-false-rape-claims-blackmailing-men-691115

Look any party has it's share of lunatics and SF are definitely no different but the fact that they're defending him is just stupid.
???
"These are not appropriate comments to make and are not the views of Sinn Féin."

Ms McDonald said she believed Mr Holohan said he was misinterpreted because he was probably frustrated that the remarks gave the impression he held views different to the ones he is associated with.

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0116/1107829-sinn-fein-holohan/)
Don't shoot me here but in regards to the family man comments I don't really see anything wrong with it. A father  who goes to work and has kids in school would better understand the struggles of juggling work, pick ups, childcare costs etc over a person with no kids.

Much in the same way that a woman would far better understand women's issues than a man would.

I don't see how anyone could take offence by that. The other comment however about heritage was rather stupid.

It had serious homophobic undertones

If it had then of course he is in the wrong. I have just read the clips in the newspaper and was reading them at face value.

Just by reading the comments it could apply to any single policital such as Angela Merkel. Leo being gay should not come into the equation. I wonder if people are reading the undertones because Leo is gay and if that is the case then any warranted criticism can be swotted away as homophobic.

Clearly if he was only saying it due to Leo being gay then it's out of order.
Possibly if he had made an isolated comment about 'Family Man', Holohan might have got away with a yellow card,  but that coupled with the reference to Leo's Indian background separating him from Irish history, not only highlights the homophobic bias but dives full on into fascist ideology - Blood and Soil.   Here Holohan hits two birds with the one stone, Leo's ethnicity and he implicitly states that an Irish person's connection to Ireland runs through generations of Irish blood. He goes further to imply that the pure Irish connection to Irish history only/mainly  flows via the father, possibly there's a drip feed from the mother, but insignificant.
Out and out total gobshitery.

He should be kicked out, a buffoon is what he is
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus
What continues?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 31, 2020, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus

Elisha McCallion employed in the constituency office I would assume
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus
What continues?

Nepotism.
She will become unemployed today. Employed again tomorrow. At one time her husband was a non elected SPAD on 90k. She is now set to become a non elected MLA.

Raymond was sorted with second home in Donegal and wee nest egg in last few years. There will be an unofficial pension there for him anyhow.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 31, 2020, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus

Elisha McCallion employed in the constituency office I would assume

Not as yet.

Either that or a CEO in one of Derry City's community/voluntary organisations is on the cards.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus
What continues?

Nepotism.
She will become unemployed today. Employed again tomorrow. At one time her husband was a non elected SPAD on 90k. She is now set to become a non elected MLA.

Raymond was sorted with second home in Donegal and wee nest egg in last few years. There will be an unofficial pension there for him anyhow.

Is this not just standard Co-opting that all parties including the SDLP use?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 31, 2020, 01:55:33 PM
f**k me you'd have thought someone would have the foresight to shuffle her off when the chance was there.

f**king dickhead of the highest order there is no way she helps things in Stormont!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 31, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus

I wholeheartedly endorse this co-option by SF. Great news.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AFM on January 31, 2020, 02:11:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 31, 2020, 01:55:33 PM
f**k me you'd have thought someone would have the foresight to shuffle her off when the chance was there.

f**king dickhead of the highest order there is no way she helps things in Stormont!!

;D

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/hit-the-nail-on-the-head-gif-4.gif)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus
What continues?

Nepotism.
She will become unemployed today. Employed again tomorrow. At one time her husband was a non elected SPAD on 90k. She is now set to become a non elected MLA.

Raymond was sorted with second home in Donegal and wee nest egg in last few years. There will be an unofficial pension there for him anyhow.

Is this not just standard Co-opting that all parties including the SDLP use?

It does happen across a lot of parties. But I think SF are senior hurling in this respect. They have Derry City tied up in terms of funded jobs etc. But still cant win the seat. That tells you what people here think of their approach.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: AFM on January 31, 2020, 02:11:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 31, 2020, 01:55:33 PM
f**k me you'd have thought someone would have the foresight to shuffle her off when the chance was there.

f**king dickhead of the highest order there is no way she helps things in Stormont!!

;D

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/hit-the-nail-on-the-head-gif-4.gif)

Agreed. Like a Banshee. Her "Tiocfaidh ár lá" and "You can shove" stuff was not only cringe worthy but most counterproductive in terms of getting an UI in which we can all be happy with
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus
What continues?

Nepotism.
She will become unemployed today. Employed again tomorrow. At one time her husband was a non elected SPAD on 90k. She is now set to become a non elected MLA.

Raymond was sorted with second home in Donegal and wee nest egg in last few years. There will be an unofficial pension there for him anyhow.

Is this not just standard Co-opting that all parties including the SDLP use?

It does happen across a lot of parties. But I think SF are senior hurling in this respect. They have Derry City tied up in terms of funded jobs etc. But still cant win the seat. That tells you what people here think of their approach.

No parties in a position to preach about co-opting.

For what it's worth I completely disagree with co-opting. The seat shouldn't belong to a party, but rather to the candidate. And if the candidate steps down, it should be a re-vote. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus
What continues?

Nepotism.
She will become unemployed today. Employed again tomorrow. At one time her husband was a non elected SPAD on 90k. She is now set to become a non elected MLA.

Raymond was sorted with second home in Donegal and wee nest egg in last few years. There will be an unofficial pension there for him anyhow.

Is this not just standard Co-opting that all parties including the SDLP use?

It does happen across a lot of parties. But I think SF are senior hurling in this respect. They have Derry City tied up in terms of funded jobs etc. But still cant win the seat. That tells you what people here think of their approach.

No parties in a position to preach about co-opting.

For what it's worth I completely disagree with co-opting. The seat shouldn't belong to a party, but rather to the candidate. And if the candidate steps down, it should be a re-vote.

Agreed. In fact we should have had an election for all the seats at Stormont
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 31, 2020, 02:23:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 31, 2020, 01:55:33 PM
there is no way she helps things in Stormont!!

Now, now, screenexile. Have you forgotten all the great work she did (still does?) as SF's "Unionist Outreach Officer" (or whatever the title was)?

I mean, no better person for bringing Unionists round to SF's vision of a future Ireland, and our place in it:

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 31, 2020, 02:47:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:44:48 AM


Raymond was sorted with second home in Donegal and wee nest egg in last few years. There will be an unofficial pension there for him anyhow.
Aye, that'll be his War Pension.

Only question is, which one, his IRA pension, or his British one?
https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2020/01/29/raymond-mccartney-eamonn-macdermott-the-murder-of-detective-constable-patrick-mcnulty/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2020/01/29/raymond-mccartney-eamonn-macdermott-the-murder-of-detective-constable-patrick-mcnulty/)

Or maybe he was "doing the double"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 01, 2020, 12:26:01 AM
Very very interesting poll released at midnight there by the Times. SF in second place.
Will they regret not running more candidates?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 01, 2020, 01:24:30 AM
The polls will overstate SF. The type of voter who believes that someone else should pay for everything also tend to think that someone else should go out and vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 01, 2020, 10:24:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2020, 01:24:30 AM
The polls will overstate SF. The type of voter who believes that someone else should pay for everything also tend to think that someone else should go out and vote.

I think it'lll be an interesting election - FF wrecked the country and FG had their chance but a lot of people seem to be thinking that they've done nothing nothing about the homeless criss, health service and lack of house building. 

Problem is there's quite a few left wing parties and smaller leaning left wing independents.  Some of the voting papers will have 15 or 16 names on them.  SF are always overstated in polls but coming form where they were at 6mths ago, they'll be happy.

Will they get the transfers for the finals seats though to add to their numbers?  That's the big question.

I wouldn't be taking any lectures from the economic policies of FF and FG - look at the homless crisis and health service.  Look at their 'abilty' to manage the new children's hospital..lol...great bit of economics there!  The overspend would build some houses or cut the number of people on hospital trolleys.

The country bailed out the banks but the banks pay very little back to what they should in terms of their profits.  A f***ing to people who has had austerity forced on them since the crash.  Make the banks pay what they should - do you disagree with this?

Should the big corporate outfits pay more also?  Or should it be just the ordinary 5/8ths who should have to pay tax and the draconian USC? 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 01, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Martina Anderson grates with me. she is the type of republican that puts me off SF at times. I can't stand the jingoist nonsense. Bizarrely on the are occasion she has made cogent arguments they have resonated. unfortunately though she could well be the death knell of SF in Derry.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 01, 2020, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 01, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Martina Anderson grates with me. she is the type of republican that puts me off SF at times. I can't stand the jingoist nonsense. Bizarrely on the are occasion she has made cogent arguments they have resonated. unfortunately though she could well be the death knell of SF in Derry.

Yeah, poor candidate. Did ok in Europe but seriously hard to listen to.  Drops too many clangers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 03, 2020, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 31, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51323053

And so it continues.
Sweet Jesus
What continues?

Nepotism.
She will become unemployed today. Employed again tomorrow. At one time her husband was a non elected SPAD on 90k. She is now set to become a non elected MLA.

Raymond was sorted with second home in Donegal and wee nest egg in last few years. There will be an unofficial pension there for him anyhow.

Is this not just standard Co-opting that all parties including the SDLP use?

It does happen across a lot of parties. But I think SF are senior hurling in this respect. They have Derry City tied up in terms of funded jobs etc. But still cant win the seat. That tells you what people here think of their approach.

No parties in a position to preach about co-opting.

For what it's worth I completely disagree with co-opting. The seat shouldn't belong to a party, but rather to the candidate. And if the candidate steps down, it should be a re-vote.

How do you do this in multi seat constituencies?
It's by no means ideal but it is the only way. Although I think people have an issue as it's used to reintroduce candidates who have lost their seat in another election and can be seen as jobs for the loyal boys and girls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on February 03, 2020, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 03, 2020, 01:07:40 PM

How do you do this in multi seat constituencies?
It's by no means ideal but it is the only way. Although I think people have an issue as it's used to reintroduce candidates who have lost their seat in another election and can be seen as jobs for the loyal boys and girls.

If a TD dies, steps down, or moves on, even a multi seat constituency, there is a by-election to fill the vacancy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2020, 03:03:56 PM
Quote from: five points on February 03, 2020, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 03, 2020, 01:07:40 PM

How do you do this in multi seat constituencies?
It's by no means ideal but it is the only way. Although I think people have an issue as it's used to reintroduce candidates who have lost their seat in another election and can be seen as jobs for the loyal boys and girls.

If a TD dies, steps down, or moves on, even a multi seat constituency, there is a by-election to fill the vacancy.

Rightly so. Martina Anderson would not have got her seat in Derry if there was an election in the last month
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on February 03, 2020, 05:28:42 PM
Quote from: five points on February 03, 2020, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 03, 2020, 01:07:40 PM

How do you do this in multi seat constituencies?
It's by no means ideal but it is the only way. Although I think people have an issue as it's used to reintroduce candidates who have lost their seat in another election and can be seen as jobs for the loyal boys and girls.

If a TD dies, steps down, or moves on, even a multi seat constituency, there is a by-election to fill the vacancy.
In practice how would that work? Are all other seats automatically vacated as well?
For example, if we had a 4 seat constituency where FG got 2 seats (49.5%), FF got 1 seat (27.2%), SF got 1 seat (16.2%) and Labour 0 seats (7.1%) and the SF member had to step down or resign how would a new election work, highest vote share (FG) or would all 4 seats need to be re-filled?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 03, 2020, 05:54:44 PM
A full election but only 1 seat to be filled.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on February 04, 2020, 10:01:07 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 01, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Martina Anderson grates with me. she is the type of republican that puts me off SF at times. I can't stand the jingoist nonsense. Bizarrely on the are occasion she has made cogent arguments they have resonated. unfortunately though she could well be the death knell of SF in Derry.
I agree on Martina Anderson, I find her hard to stomach as well. Its a pity as they seem to have some very capable people within the party now
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: highorlow on February 04, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
[quoteThe country bailed out the banks but the banks pay very little back to what they should in terms of their profits.  A f***ing to people who has had austerity forced on them since the crash.  Make the banks pay what they should - do you disagree with this?][/quote]


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/nama-expects-to-hand-over-its-4bn-lifetime-surplus-to-the-state-by-2021-1.3909348

It surprises me that the blueshirts don't mention this in any debate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 06, 2020, 07:03:09 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Is it Come Out You Black 'n' Tans?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 06, 2020, 07:05:10 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 04, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
[quoteThe country bailed out the banks but the banks pay very little back to what they should in terms of their profits.  A f***ing to people who has had austerity forced on them since the crash.  Make the banks pay what they should - do you disagree with this?]


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/nama-expects-to-hand-over-its-4bn-lifetime-surplus-to-the-state-by-2021-1.3909348

It surprises me that the blueshirts don't mention this in any debate.
[/quote]

Key word is expects.....I expect my bookie coupon to come up every Saturday but it rarely happens.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 06, 2020, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 04, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
[quoteThe country bailed out the banks but the banks pay very little back to what they should in terms of their profits.  A f***ing to people who has had austerity forced on them since the crash.  Make the banks pay what they should - do you disagree with this?]


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/nama-expects-to-hand-over-its-4bn-lifetime-surplus-to-the-state-by-2021-1.3909348

It surprises me that the blueshirts don't mention this in any debate.
[/quote]

Sinn Fein did mention in their manifesto. It is "costed" to pay for their giveaway stuff, when it should really be used to pay down national debt given how much the bailout contributed to that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Solo_run on February 06, 2020, 08:20:23 PM
The cheek of DUP calling for SF to sack Murphy. They didn't sack Foster when she cost the economy £500m... In fact if I remember correctly their response was we won't be told by Sinn Fein what to do with our members.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Chief on February 06, 2020, 09:32:50 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

100% accurate, people should be reminded of such atrocities. I take it though you'll carry that logic through and apply the same criteria to the party that wanted to commemorate killers in the Black and Tans? 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 09:40:38 PM
Quote from: Chief on February 06, 2020, 09:32:50 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

100% accurate, people should be reminded of such atrocities. I take it though you'll carry that logic through and apply the same criteria to the party that wanted to commemorate killers in the Black and Tans?

Of course no time for that either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 06, 2020, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Should wife of a criminal be also declared a criminal? Cop on ta f**k will ya
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 06, 2020, 10:33:06 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 09:40:38 PM
Quote from: Chief on February 06, 2020, 09:32:50 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

100% accurate, people should be reminded of such atrocities. I take it though you'll carry that logic through and apply the same criteria to the party that wanted to commemorate killers in the Black and Tans?

Of course no time for that either.

Of course you don't!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 10:35:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2020, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Should wife of a criminal be also declared a criminal? Cop on ta f**k will ya
Didnt call her a criminal but she obviously sees no wrong in convicted IRA murdering scumbags seen that she had the pleasure of been his wife. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 06, 2020, 10:50:28 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 10:35:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2020, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Should wife of a criminal be also declared a criminal? Cop on ta f**k will ya
Didnt call her a criminal but she obviously sees no wrong in convicted IRA murdering scumbags seen that she had the pleasure of been his wife.

You know what, go out and vote for Brendan Smith so, a more useless f**ker has never stood on two feet. In the dail for decades and delivered zero forvtge county.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 10:56:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2020, 10:50:28 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 10:35:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2020, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Should wife of a criminal be also declared a criminal? Cop on ta f**k will ya
Didnt call her a criminal but she obviously sees no wrong in convicted IRA murdering scumbags seen that she had the pleasure of been his wife.

You know what, go out and vote for Brendan Smith so, a more useless f**ker has never stood on two feet. In the dail for decades and delivered zero forvtge county.

Why you bringing someone else in this and why the bad language are you ok you seem a bit angry?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 06, 2020, 11:56:24 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 10:35:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2020, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Should wife of a criminal be also declared a criminal? Cop on ta f**k will ya
Didnt call her a criminal but she obviously sees no wrong in convicted IRA murdering scumbags seen that she had the pleasure of been his wife.

The free state establishment stood back and watched on as northern nationalist were battered, slaughtered and burned out of their homes by a loyalist pogrom aided and abetted by the military and intelligence arms of the British state.

FF and FG have as much blood on their hands as the Provos, indeed it was a FF taoiseach who put guns in the arms of northern nationalists and then ran for the hills when it came to accountability.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 07, 2020, 08:56:20 AM
All the west Brits are panicking  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:13:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

Yer man is indicative of the type of electorate that will bring you a century of state corruption and mismanagement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on February 07, 2020, 09:15:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:13:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

Yer man is indicative of the type of electorate that will bring you a century of state corruption and mismanagement.

Fckin hell, SF trying to take the moral high-ground!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:20:41 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 07, 2020, 09:15:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:13:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

Yer man is indicative of the type of electorate that will bring you a century of state corruption and mismanagement.

Fckin hell, SF trying to take the moral high-ground!

Of course they would when it comes to FF or FG.

The Provos were born out of exceptional circumstances but they were an absolute must after the Free State turned its back on as northern nationalists were being terrorised under a loyalist pogrom.

Also worth noting that a former FF taoiseach armed the Provos and then ran away from it when the public opinion turned against him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:20:41 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 07, 2020, 09:15:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:13:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

Yer man is indicative of the type of electorate that will bring you a century of state corruption and mismanagement.

Fckin hell, SF trying to take the moral high-ground!

Of course they would when it comes to FF or FG.

The Provos were born out of exceptional circumstances but they were an absolute must after the Free State turned its back on as northern nationalists were being terrorised under a loyalist pogrom.

Also worth noting that a former FF taoiseach armed the Provos and then ran away from it when the public opinion turned against him.

Do you get a few shillings every time you post that nugget of information?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AFM on February 07, 2020, 09:41:26 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 10:56:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2020, 10:50:28 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 10:35:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2020, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Should wife of a criminal be also declared a criminal? Cop on ta f**k will ya
Didnt call her a criminal but she obviously sees no wrong in convicted IRA murdering scumbags seen that she had the pleasure of been his wife.

You know what, go out and vote for Brendan Smith so, a more useless f**ker has never stood on two feet. In the dail for decades and delivered zero forvtge county.

Why you bringing someone else in this and why the bad language are you ok you seem a bit angry?

He does that, personal abuse and foul language when he's been called out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:20:41 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 07, 2020, 09:15:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:13:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

Yer man is indicative of the type of electorate that will bring you a century of state corruption and mismanagement.

Fckin hell, SF trying to take the moral high-ground!

Of course they would when it comes to FF or FG.

The Provos were born out of exceptional circumstances but they were an absolute must after the Free State turned its back on as northern nationalists were being terrorised under a loyalist pogrom.

Also worth noting that a former FF taoiseach armed the Provos and then ran away from it when the public opinion turned against him.

Do you get a few shillings every time you post that nugget of information?

I just like to remind establishment shills like yourself that your outrage is merely histrionics. The free state has plenty of blood on its hands, it watched on as innocent nationalists were burned from their homes, beaten on the streets and murdered and it did nothing.

Nationalists in the north had to do something as they were let down by both the British establishment and the Free State.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:49:42 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:20:41 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 07, 2020, 09:15:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:13:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

Yer man is indicative of the type of electorate that will bring you a century of state corruption and mismanagement.

Fckin hell, SF trying to take the moral high-ground!

Of course they would when it comes to FF or FG.

The Provos were born out of exceptional circumstances but they were an absolute must after the Free State turned its back on as northern nationalists were being terrorised under a loyalist pogrom.

Also worth noting that a former FF taoiseach armed the Provos and then ran away from it when the public opinion turned against him.

Do you get a few shillings every time you post that nugget of information?

I just like to remind establishment shills like yourself that your outrage is merely histrionics. The free state has plenty of blood on its hands, it watched on as innocent nationalists were burned from their homes, beaten on the streets and murdered and it did nothing.

Nationalists in the north had to do something as they were let down by both the British establishment and the Free State.

Didn't need to go down the county to kill those who are there to protect the good people in the free state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 07, 2020, 11:08:04 AM
Frank Hand, Gda Clerkin, Gary Sheehan, Patrick Kelly, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 07, 2020, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 07, 2020, 11:08:04 AM
Frank Hand, Gda Clerkin, Gary Sheehan, Patrick Kelly, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe...

Victim bingo? There must be an election happening.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2020, 11:47:55 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.

Because of the murder they committed or because of the guilt of turning their back on nationalists in the North who were treated as second class citizens? 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2020, 11:47:55 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.

Because of the murder they committed or because of the guilt of turning their back on nationalists in the North who were treated as second class citizens?

I have actually have had near enough of "Nationalists in the North" the amount of whining they do is unreal.  If the Island was every united it would take some amount of counselling to get the chips of both their shoulders.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Pauline is 1/3 to get elected, delighted to see it. Its only a pity some of the useless goons we have had for decades from FG and FF that delivered absolutely ZERO for Cavan in their time couldnt all be dumped out too but I suppose all in good time. Do you know for example Cavan has been pretty much ignored by the IDA because supposedly the main centres we should have been commuting to are Dundalk and Sligo. Anyone who knows the region that would try and make either of those journeys over and back in a day will know how preposterous that is. Cavan19 is likely a member of Young FF or FG and has signed up here to do his patriotic duty (like RTE and the Indo) to make sure you all know the terrible truth about Sinn Fein.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on February 07, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Pauline is 1/3 to get elected, delighted to see it. Its only a pity some of the useless goons we have had for decades from FG and FF that delivered absolutely ZERO for Cavan in their time couldnt all be dumped out too but I suppose all in good time. Do you know for example Cavan has been pretty much ignored by the IDA because supposedly the main centres we should have been commuting to are Dundalk and Sligo. Anyone who knows the region that would try and make either of those journeys over and back in a day will know how preposterous that is. Cavan19 is likely a member of Young FF or FG and has signed up here to do his patriotic duty (like RTE and the Indo) to make sure you all know the terrible truth about Sinn Fein.
As opposed to yourself shilling on here for SF for some time now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 07, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Pauline is 1/3 to get elected, delighted to see it. Its only a pity some of the useless goons we have had for decades from FG and FF that delivered absolutely ZERO for Cavan in their time couldnt all be dumped out too but I suppose all in good time. Do you know for example Cavan has been pretty much ignored by the IDA because supposedly the main centres we should have been commuting to are Dundalk and Sligo. Anyone who knows the region that would try and make either of those journeys over and back in a day will know how preposterous that is. Cavan19 is likely a member of Young FF or FG and has signed up here to do his patriotic duty (like RTE and the Indo) to make sure you all know the terrible truth about Sinn Fein.
As opposed to yourself shilling on here for SF for some time now.

Going by the language that he uses on here when he isn't hearing what he wants to hear i'd say he could have learned it in school from Pauline.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on February 07, 2020, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Pauline is 1/3 to get elected, delighted to see it. Its only a pity some of the useless goons we have had for decades from FG and FF that delivered absolutely ZERO for Cavan in their time couldnt all be dumped out too but I suppose all in good time. Do you know for example Cavan has been pretty much ignored by the IDA because supposedly the main centres we should have been commuting to are Dundalk and Sligo. Anyone who knows the region that would try and make either of those journeys over and back in a day will know how preposterous that is. Cavan19 is likely a member of Young FF or FG and has signed up here to do his patriotic duty (like RTE and the Indo) to make sure you all know the terrible truth about Sinn Fein.

We in Cavan had our chance at the 2007 election when at the same time the plans for the M3 motorway were being finalised. What did we do? We elected 4 out of 5 Monaghan TDs with Caoimhghin O'Caolain getting as much support from Cavan as he did in his own county. And what happened? The new road stopped at the Cavan border. 9 years after it opened, the rest of the N3 is a dangerous, congested mess.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2020, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2020, 11:47:55 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.

Because of the murder they committed or because of the guilt of turning their back on nationalists in the North who were treated as second class citizens?

I have actually have had near enough of "Nationalists in the North" the amount of whining they do is unreal.  If the Island was every united it would take some amount of counselling to get the chips of both their shoulders.

Not surprising attitude. I'm alright Jack.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on February 07, 2020, 12:07:08 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.

People in the free state are in denial about the IRA pre and post 1921, we know this, all to do with living in the shires.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 12:22:29 PM
Any free stater who is not ashamed of the inaction of the free state establishment during the troubles is by definition a quisling.

There's plenty of them on here and it manifests itself very much when elections come to the fore.

It's called Free State Projected Shame (FSPS).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 07, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Feck it lads, most people who have made up their minds to vote SF probably know they have 'tenuous' links with the IRA. They're hardly going to change their minds at the last minute. Especially when the establishment are looking down on them (SF that is).

FF entered the Dáil armed back in the 1920s for those who are unaware...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mrdeeds on February 07, 2020, 12:25:29 PM
Quote from: tiempo on February 07, 2020, 12:07:08 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.

People in the free state are in denial about the IRA pre and post 1921, we know this, all to do with living in the shires.

She married him while he was serving time for murdering garda Gerry McCabe.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 07, 2020, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2020, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 07, 2020, 11:08:04 AM
Frank Hand, Gda Clerkin, Gary Sheehan, Patrick Kelly, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe...

Victim bingo? There must be an election happening.
So you're happy that those people were murdered by the Provos?
What ever happened to Army Order no.8?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 07, 2020, 01:31:32 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.

Which IRA would that be then?

Old IRA = Good
New IRA  = Bad
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on February 07, 2020, 01:36:16 PM
2 warnings to anyone thinking of voting SF.

Firstly the current debate on history has important impacts on Law and Order and fairness. We all know the names involved in the Quinn murder and the connections to SF. SF will not and some would argue cannot come out and clearly state that the murder was wrong, the murderers are (by the method of murder) dangerous and all parties with knowledge that can lead to a conviction of the murderers need to share that with the police. Furthermore that they have issued that as a dictact to anyone wishing to retain party membership. The SF statement would need to cover all of this. SF's inability to make such a statement renders them unfit to handle matters pertaining to Law and Order. Their inability to do the right thing (on a matter as important as this) when it potentially means harming one of their own means they cannot be trusted to use public office fairly.

Secondly there is a wider issue of competence. In NI we have the misfortune of having to maintain a pretence of being governed by elected officials. We are not. We are governed by highly paid party lackeys in the hope that they are more competent than those sent out to get elected. SF are far from alone in that. Governing NI is a relatively small affair relative to running RoI. I'm really not sure that I have seen evidence of any higher level of competence in RoI. Who from the SF roster is going to run a government department or represent the country internationally??

The mind boggles
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 01:40:45 PM
Quote from: five points on February 07, 2020, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Pauline is 1/3 to get elected, delighted to see it. Its only a pity some of the useless goons we have had for decades from FG and FF that delivered absolutely ZERO for Cavan in their time couldnt all be dumped out too but I suppose all in good time. Do you know for example Cavan has been pretty much ignored by the IDA because supposedly the main centres we should have been commuting to are Dundalk and Sligo. Anyone who knows the region that would try and make either of those journeys over and back in a day will know how preposterous that is. Cavan19 is likely a member of Young FF or FG and has signed up here to do his patriotic duty (like RTE and the Indo) to make sure you all know the terrible truth about Sinn Fein.

We in Cavan had our chance at the 2007 election when at the same time the plans for the M3 motorway were being finalised. What did we do? We elected 4 out of 5 Monaghan TDs with Caoimhghin O'Caolain getting as much support from Cavan as he did in his own county. And what happened? The new road stopped at the Cavan border. 9 years after it opened, the rest of the N3 is a dangerous, congested mess.

We had the chance to vote for the mighty lads that did nothing for the county for decades in 2007, I mean we should have known that their past form of doing absolutely zero for the county was about to change just after 2007 and then what did we do, feck it all up by not voting for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 01:43:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 07, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Pauline is 1/3 to get elected, delighted to see it. Its only a pity some of the useless goons we have had for decades from FG and FF that delivered absolutely ZERO for Cavan in their time couldnt all be dumped out too but I suppose all in good time. Do you know for example Cavan has been pretty much ignored by the IDA because supposedly the main centres we should have been commuting to are Dundalk and Sligo. Anyone who knows the region that would try and make either of those journeys over and back in a day will know how preposterous that is. Cavan19 is likely a member of Young FF or FG and has signed up here to do his patriotic duty (like RTE and the Indo) to make sure you all know the terrible truth about Sinn Fein.
As opposed to yourself shilling on here for SF for some time now.

Going by the language that he uses on here when he isn't hearing what he wants to hear i'd say he could have learned it in school from Pauline.

Unlike yourself I'd say I am the same age as Pauline so no she didnt teach me. But you have slurred her due to who she married and now you are slurring her ability as a teacher. Of course this now shows your true purpose of being on here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 01:45:37 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 07, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Pauline is 1/3 to get elected, delighted to see it. Its only a pity some of the useless goons we have had for decades from FG and FF that delivered absolutely ZERO for Cavan in their time couldnt all be dumped out too but I suppose all in good time. Do you know for example Cavan has been pretty much ignored by the IDA because supposedly the main centres we should have been commuting to are Dundalk and Sligo. Anyone who knows the region that would try and make either of those journeys over and back in a day will know how preposterous that is. Cavan19 is likely a member of Young FF or FG and has signed up here to do his patriotic duty (like RTE and the Indo) to make sure you all know the terrible truth about Sinn Fein.
As opposed to yourself shilling on here for SF for some time now.

I have never sought to hide who I will be voting for on Saturday and why, how about you lad. You too embarrassed to tell us you will be voting for? Marc McSharry or Eamonn Scanlon or god help us John Perry the renegade?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 07, 2020, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 09:46:56 AM


I just like to remind establishment shills like yourself that your outrage is merely histrionics. The free state has plenty of blood on its hands, it watched on as innocent nationalists were burned from their homes, beaten on the streets and murdered and it did nothing.

Nationalists in the north had to do something as they were let down by both the British establishment and the Free State.

It's true the Southern state for the most part abandoned Northern Nationalists, but it also has to be said since the Anglo-Irish agreement, Irish governments have been actively involved and got a say in matters for the first time after that agreement (which incidently both Unionists and SF hated at the time). The last government, particular Simon Coveney, has been very active and the type of all-island economic institutions around tourism, energy, agriculture - and now a customs in the Irish sea have brought unification closer than violence ever has. I do think since the Good Friday Agreement, all parties have to leave the past in the past and move on with reconciliation and I would disagree with Irish media digging up every old atrocity, as reconciliation can never happen with that attitude. However, it's fair game to ask questions of Sinn Fein on current policies such as their lack of support for the SCC, and indeed their Nigel Faragesque attitude to the EU, which to many people has played a huge role in Ireland's growth and move to modernity. However, what I think will happen after this election is SF will support the SCC - and either FF or FG will claim great progress has been made and like that you will have a new coalition government.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 01:55:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 01:43:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 07, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Pauline is 1/3 to get elected, delighted to see it. Its only a pity some of the useless goons we have had for decades from FG and FF that delivered absolutely ZERO for Cavan in their time couldnt all be dumped out too but I suppose all in good time. Do you know for example Cavan has been pretty much ignored by the IDA because supposedly the main centres we should have been commuting to are Dundalk and Sligo. Anyone who knows the region that would try and make either of those journeys over and back in a day will know how preposterous that is. Cavan19 is likely a member of Young FF or FG and has signed up here to do his patriotic duty (like RTE and the Indo) to make sure you all know the terrible truth about Sinn Fein.
As opposed to yourself shilling on here for SF for some time now.

Going by the language that he uses on here when he isn't hearing what he wants to hear i'd say he could have learned it in school from Pauline.

Unlike yourself I'd say I am the same age as Pauline so no she didnt teach me. But you have slurred her due to who she married and now you are slurring her ability as a teacher. Of course this now shows your true purpose of being on here.

At least you are a wee bit calmer today and not using bad language.

I  have a problem with someone running in the election who stands by murdering scum. 

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 07, 2020, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2020, 11:47:55 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.

Because of the murder they committed or because of the guilt of turning their back on nationalists in the North who were treated as second class citizens?

I have actually have had near enough of "Nationalists in the North" the amount of whining they do is unreal.  If the Island was every united it would take some amount of counselling to get the chips of both their shoulders.

What a obnoxiously horrible little free stater you are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 07, 2020, 01:58:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 07, 2020, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2020, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 07, 2020, 11:08:04 AM
Frank Hand, Gda Clerkin, Gary Sheehan, Patrick Kelly, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe...

Victim bingo? There must be an election happening.
So you're happy that those people were murdered by the Provos?
What ever happened to Army Order no.8?
Can you quote where I said I was happy? I thought I was just making a comment on the shameless, cynical, opportunistic, hypocritical use and abuse of victims at election time by the usual sources.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on February 07, 2020, 02:02:25 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2020, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2020, 11:47:55 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.

Because of the murder they committed or because of the guilt of turning their back on nationalists in the North who were treated as second class citizens?

I have actually have had near enough of "Nationalists in the North" the amount of whining they do is unreal.  If the Island was every united it would take some amount of counselling to get the chips of both their shoulders.

What a obnoxiously horrible little free stater you are.

He really is clueless. I would guess a post troubles baby. No idea what went on up here and what measures were absolutely required to attain some degree of equality.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 02:11:44 PM
Have you the chip on one or two shoulders?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Owenmoresider on February 07, 2020, 02:33:29 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 01:45:37 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 07, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Pauline is 1/3 to get elected, delighted to see it. Its only a pity some of the useless goons we have had for decades from FG and FF that delivered absolutely ZERO for Cavan in their time couldnt all be dumped out too but I suppose all in good time. Do you know for example Cavan has been pretty much ignored by the IDA because supposedly the main centres we should have been commuting to are Dundalk and Sligo. Anyone who knows the region that would try and make either of those journeys over and back in a day will know how preposterous that is. Cavan19 is likely a member of Young FF or FG and has signed up here to do his patriotic duty (like RTE and the Indo) to make sure you all know the terrible truth about Sinn Fein.
As opposed to yourself shilling on here for SF for some time now.

I have never sought to hide who I will be voting for on Saturday and why, how about you lad. You too embarrassed to tell us you will be voting for? Marc McSharry or Eamonn Scanlon or god help us John Perry the renegade?
We have a local Independent from the parish that I'll give the vote to, then Scanlon and McCloskey the Aontu candidate. Won't go too far on the paper beyond that and it'll not really matter anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mrdeeds on February 07, 2020, 02:42:40 PM
How does murdering a guard in Limerick have anything to do with the troubles? And in spite of this Pauline Tully still married him while he was doing time for said murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 04:24:00 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 07, 2020, 02:42:40 PM
How does murdering a guard in Limerick have anything to do with the troubles? And in spite of this Pauline Tully still married him while he was doing time for said murder.

You could say it doesnt, I am sure the IRA would say they were "fundraising". Not that it matters a whole lot given that Tullys husband was indeed a total sc**bag, but he did not shoot McCabe. It was a hired hand from Limerick if I recall correctly. The fact that none of them admitted it in court was why they were all found guilty. You would have to ask Pauline why she married him, it may seem a stupid thing and I am sure after what happened to her she realises that now. However, I personally draw a line at holding her accountable for what her ex husband did or didnt do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
I will be back in a day or 2 lads I will be busy working over the weekend in counting centre.


Remember to keep the spinners out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 07, 2020, 06:06:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
I will be back in a day or 2 lads I will be busy working over the weekend in counting centre.

On 12th December, we reported at 9 pm & were away for 3:40 am. Quit blaming it on PR & just get the job finished.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 06:30:00 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on February 07, 2020, 06:06:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
I will be back in a day or 2 lads I will be busy working over the weekend in counting centre.

On 12th December, we reported at 9 pm & were away for 3:40 am. Quit blaming it on PR & just get the job finished.

Some people are slower than others, some a lot slower.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 07, 2020, 06:39:30 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:47:51 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 06, 2020, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 06, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sinn Fein electoral van playing the wolf tones in co Cavan is actual headline news on BBC news line.

Shock horror. I'm sure Nolan will be "all over" this in the morning. W***er

Hopefully people need to know that they haven't changed their spots. I dont know who would vote for the wife of an IRA garda killer who supports the IRA. Sadly in the world we live in many will.

Jesus the absolute state of this. Now married women are tied to the beliefs of their husband. Away and have a word with yourself you absolute Neanderthal. Sad this is the world we live in.

The animal murdered a serving member of the defense forces of our country and she didn't have much of a problem with it.  He even tried to kill her, sure lovely couple.

That would suggest to me that a vote for her is most certainly not a vote for him...
That's the understatement of the year! ;D

Its a vote for the IRA which doesn't sit well with a lot in the free state.

Which IRA is that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 07, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
I will be back in a day or 2 lads I will be busy working over the weekend in counting centre.


Remember to keep the spinners out.

Let us know how many Paddy Reillys you see voting Sinn Fein. Could be suspicious.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 07, 2020, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2020, 06:30:00 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on February 07, 2020, 06:06:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
I will be back in a day or 2 lads I will be busy working over the weekend in counting centre.

On 12th December, we reported at 9 pm & were away for 3:40 am. Quit blaming it on PR & just get the job finished.

Some people are slower than others, some a lot slower.

Feck sake...South Belfast was last to declare. Everybody else was away. But at £30 an hour, I wasn't complaining when they paid us at end of January.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
I will be back in a day or 2 lads I will be busy working over the weekend in counting centre.


Remember to keep the spinners out.

Well that's bullshit.

You can't count for a start.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 07, 2020, 07:59:41 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
I will be back in a day or 2 lads I will be busy working over the weekend in counting centre.


Remember to keep the spinners out.

Can't wait for your meltdown on Sunday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 07, 2020, 08:31:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2020, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
I will be back in a day or 2 lads I will be busy working over the weekend in counting centre.


Remember to keep the spinners out.

Well that's bullshit.

You can't count for a start.

Was that essential, or merely desirable?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: OgraAnDun on February 07, 2020, 09:23:23 PM
He/she wouldn't be seen at all if people could see through the blatant wumming.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:32:42 PM
Hope all the sinners will be able to get to the polling station tomorrow the drop of rain might put them off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 07, 2020, 10:18:52 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2020, 09:32:42 PM
Hope all the sinners will be able to get to the polling station tomorrow the drop of rain might put them off.

The unwashed don't go out in the rain.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 09, 2020, 04:08:12 PM
Great day for us  8)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 09, 2020, 04:19:50 PM
Let's see SF in power and trying to build 100k houses.

Unicorn politics
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on February 09, 2020, 04:20:48 PM
Glad to see at least some of the country has a bit of sense with SF's improved vote. Great to see 8)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 09, 2020, 06:56:47 PM
They wont be going away for another while anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on February 09, 2020, 10:34:14 PM
Some tube singing Get out ye black and tans... Jesus!!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 09, 2020, 11:17:28 PM
If SF have sense they won't go into government and wait on another election. They don't want to be Labour 2.0
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on February 09, 2020, 11:29:50 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 09, 2020, 11:17:28 PM
If SF have sense they won't go into government and wait on another election. They don't want to be Labour 2.0

+1.  They need to bide their time, run additional candidates at the next opportunity and see where it sits then.  They don't want to be known for putting FF back into government again, their voting base voted for change and not FF/FG back in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 02:16:15 AM
So they'll abolish the USC, the LPT, give us all €65k houses while in opposition?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 10, 2020, 08:22:23 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on February 09, 2020, 11:29:50 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 09, 2020, 11:17:28 PM
If SF have sense they won't go into government and wait on another election. They don't want to be Labour 2.0

+1.  They need to bide their time, run additional candidates at the next opportunity and see where it sits then.  They don't want to be known for putting FF back into government again, their voting base voted for change and not FF/FG back in.

Yes they voted for change and i don't think the voters will be happy if SF don't try to get into government.     
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 10, 2020, 08:58:11 AM
Testing times ahead
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 10, 2020, 09:30:25 AM
Somebody tell SF that they don't own the tricolour please.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on February 10, 2020, 11:00:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 09, 2020, 11:17:28 PM
If SF have sense they won't go into government and wait on another election. They don't want to be Labour 2.0

With 30-something seats, pretty much the same as FF, they have no choice really. If they cower away now, they won't be thanked for refusing to pursue the change they asked people to vote for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 10, 2020, 11:08:46 AM
Quote from: five points on February 10, 2020, 11:00:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 09, 2020, 11:17:28 PM
If SF have sense they won't go into government and wait on another election. They don't want to be Labour 2.0

With 30-something seats, pretty much the same as FF, they have no choice really. If they cower away now, they won't be thanked for refusing to pursue the change they asked people to vote for.

Coalition of the left :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 11:18:22 AM
You cant effect "change" in opposition.
FF will lean leftwards and we'll end up with a FF/SF/Greens Coalition.

A totally left wing Coalition will hardly make 60 seats.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on February 10, 2020, 11:36:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 11:18:22 AM
FF will lean leftwards and we'll end up with a FF/SF/Greens Coalition.

I can't see the Greens and Sinn Féin agreeing at all, for example on carbon tax or restrictions on rural car use. The demographics they represent are polar opposite to each other.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 10, 2020, 12:06:46 PM
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 10, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 10, 2020, 09:30:25 AM
Somebody tell SF that they don't own the tricolour please.

Ugh that line gets under my skin. Nobody is stopping anyone from holding flags at count centres. In fact Aindrias Moynihan (FF) held one as he celebrated his election

Striking attitude shown in Galway West by the returning officer. The only party she told not to cheer was Sinn Féin, and also told them to put away their a tricolour saying it was "not the place for that or for any other symbols". She said this while standing on stage right beside a tricolour.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 01:41:54 PM
A tricolour on the stage is a sign of the office. Dancing around with a tricolour on your head is taking the piss and insulting to Irish people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 10, 2020, 01:52:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 01:41:54 PM
A tricolour on the stage is a sign of the office. Dancing around with a tricolour on your head is taking the piss and insulting to Irish people.

I haven't met anyone who is genuinely offended by national flags at an election count. You will see it the world over. There's always a core of people in Ireland though who are somewhat ashamed of using the flag and will hide that behind lofty claims about respecting it. Nobody wants to see it in tatters on a lamppost, but to whine about political parties/members/supporters holding them at democratic election counts, is a little bit pathetic.

Besides, had the returning officer not been inconsistent in her warning regarding celebrations, only asking SF supporters not to cheer, then her real motivations for admonishing them about flags might not seem so suspect.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
This is a bit pathetic, since the flag no more belongs to SF than any other candidate

(https://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/cropped_article_image/public/blogs_2020/02/gettyimages-1205090504.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thebigfella on February 10, 2020, 06:11:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
This is a bit pathetic, since the flag no more belongs to SF than any other candidate

(https://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/cropped_article_image/public/blogs_2020/02/gettyimages-1205090504.jpg)

Exactly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 10, 2020, 06:46:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
This is a bit pathetic, since the flag no more belongs to SF than any other candidate

(https://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/cropped_article_image/public/blogs_2020/02/gettyimages-1205090504.jpg)

Name a shinner who is saying otherwise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 10, 2020, 06:52:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 10, 2020, 06:46:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
This is a bit pathetic, since the flag no more belongs to SF than any other candidate

(https://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/cropped_article_image/public/blogs_2020/02/gettyimages-1205090504.jpg)

Name a shinner who is saying otherwise.

The question would be is this jingoism with the flag an example of what they call Performative Patriotism in US with Trump supporters. Nothing needs to be stated but the overzealous use of it by that political party and its supporters is to convey we are True Americans, you are not.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2020, 07:11:35 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 10, 2020, 09:30:25 AM
Somebody tell SF that they don't own the tricolour please.

As the only All Ireland party, they have a greater claim to it than any other.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 10, 2020, 07:15:05 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 10, 2020, 06:52:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 10, 2020, 06:46:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
This is a bit pathetic, since the flag no more belongs to SF than any other candidate

(https://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/cropped_article_image/public/blogs_2020/02/gettyimages-1205090504.jpg)

Name a shinner who is saying otherwise.

The question would be is this jingoism with the flag an example of what they call Performative Patriotism in US with Trump supporters. Nothing needs to be stated but the overzealous use of it by that political party and its supporters is to convey we are True Americans, you are not.
FFS take off the tin hat. Somehow I doubt if they decided to bring flags to the count centres to deliver some sort of message. Perhaps they are just not ashamed of being proud of it and are, understandably enough, in a celebratory mood.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 10, 2020, 07:32:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
This is a bit pathetic, since the flag no more belongs to SF than any other candidate

(https://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/cropped_article_image/public/blogs_2020/02/gettyimages-1205090504.jpg)
Shocker as man waves Irish flag at election celebration in Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 10, 2020, 07:33:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 10, 2020, 09:30:25 AM
Somebody tell SF that they don't own the tricolour please.

I don't think they ever said or implied they did? Am i wrong?

FF/FG are free to wave as many tricolours as they want.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 10, 2020, 07:55:23 PM
Don't mind Rossfan. He's just having a little strop because the party he reckons wouldn't get 5% in the west/midlands went on to win the election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 08:03:16 PM
Except they didnt actually win it.
81 seats needed to win it. ;)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 08:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 08:03:16 PM
Except they didnt actually win it.
81 seats needed to win it. ;)

Now now Rossfan, they only fell 44 short.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on February 10, 2020, 08:12:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

What? ... show as much respect to our flag and national identity as FF did when they lost Ireland's sovereignty to Troika.  If a bit of flag waving is all you have to complain about, then you're not doing too badly in the grand scheme of things.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 10, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2020, 08:22:23 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on February 10, 2020, 08:12:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

What? ... show as much respect to our flag and national identity as FF did when they lost Ireland's sovereignty to Troika.  If a bit of flag waving is all you have to complain about, then you're not doing too badly in the grand scheme of things.

This is the old thing trope that there are worse things. Yes, there are, but that doesn't justify this carry on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 10, 2020, 08:40:59 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 10, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.
And if you know your history....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 11:27:06 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 10, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.
The dignified Healy Raes sang the Rose of Tralee :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 11, 2020, 05:58:34 AM
The title of this thread didn't age very well, did it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 11, 2020, 07:35:37 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 11:27:06 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 10, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.
The dignified Healy Raes sang the Rose of Tralee :)

They also said to hell with the planet. Have the Healy raes any plans to colonize the moon?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2020, 08:46:58 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 10, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.

A Fianna Fail song???

Don't think Dominic Behan had anything to do with Fianna Fail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2020, 08:56:57 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 11, 2020, 07:35:37 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 11:27:06 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 10, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.
The dignified Healy Raes sang the Rose of Tralee :)

They also said to hell with the planet. Have the Healy raes any plans to colonize the moon?
They have all the necessary JCBs etc  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 11, 2020, 10:42:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 07, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Feck it lads, most people who have made up their minds to vote SF probably know they have 'tenuous' links with the IRA. They're hardly going to change their minds at the last minute. Especially when the establishment are looking down on them (SF that is).

FF entered the Dáil armed back in the 1920s for those who are unaware...
This is the same IRA now committed to exclusively democratic and peaceful constitutional change.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on February 11, 2020, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 10, 2020, 12:06:46 PM
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 11, 2020, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2020, 08:46:58 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 10, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.

A Fianna Fail song???

Don't think Dominic Behan had anything to do with Fianna Fail.

Behan added some lyrics but the song and chorus you cited were written by a Fianna Fáil TD, James Ryan. Better that than Healy Rae singing Livin Next Door to Alice.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 11, 2020, 11:30:46 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 11, 2020, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 10, 2020, 12:06:46 PM
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2020, 11:47:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 11, 2020, 11:30:46 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 11, 2020, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 10, 2020, 12:06:46 PM
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc

Take off the tinfoil hat, you lunatic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 12, 2020, 12:09:39 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2020, 11:47:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 11, 2020, 11:30:46 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 11, 2020, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 10, 2020, 12:06:46 PM
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc

Take off the tinfoil hat, you lunatic.

Or a more measured and reasoned retort would be.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 12, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 11, 2020, 11:30:46 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 11, 2020, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 10, 2020, 12:06:46 PM
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc

he doesn't have that much sway.

They're all here for access to the European Market and favourable corporate tax rates. Not sure how the Donald could wane them off that particular teat because Mary Lou started making a bit of noise about US army flights landing in Shannon.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 12, 2020, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 12, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 11, 2020, 11:30:46 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 11, 2020, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 10, 2020, 12:06:46 PM
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc

he doesn't have that much sway.

They're all here for access to the European Market and favourable corporate tax rates. Not sure how the Donald could wane them off that particular teat because Mary Lou started making a bit of noise about US army flights landing in Shannon.

Hopefully you are right, he has been banging on about it since 2017. Could another country adopt Ireland's current approach to corp tax? My feeling is that we will not hear SF's pre-election pledge on Shannon mentioned again-its the real world now

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0816/897749-trump-ireland-manufacturing/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 09:20:55 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/up-the-ra-has-become-no-more-ra-and-must-stay-that-way-1.4170612

Up the Ra has become No more Ra and must stay that way
Which way Sinn Féin pivots now will be crucial to its longer-term aspirations

Denis Bradley

 
About a year ago, Sinn Féin sent one of its senior Belfast members to find out what was happening in Derry. There was unrest in the Foyle constituency. The party had performed badly at council elections and there was discontent at local level. Colm Eastwood, the leader of the SDLP, was likely to take back John Hume's seat. What no one saw was the thrashing that Sinn Féin would take in the Westminster election. Eastwood got more than double the vote of the sitting Sinn Féin member.

The beating that Sinn Féin took in Derry may have been a godsend for the party. That result, more than any other, removed any uncertainty in Sinn Féin's mind about going back into government with the DUP. That in turn made it easier to sell its proposals on housing, pensions and health in the south; Irish people are generally unhappy when Stormont is not up and running. They see power-sharing as the core of the Belfast Agreement and, more importantly, of the peace process.

How Sinn Féin, in the light of its success, presents and deports itself to the unionist community will be a measurement of its maturity as a party aspiring to govern
The amazing result that Sinn Féin has just enjoyed demands a fresh look at the party's overarching strategy and its ability to deliver it. As weariness of violence and political deadlock grew, the party proposed (mostly to its own supporters) an alternative to violence and "the long war". It was to get the party into government both north and south of the Border. From that position of power and strength, the push for a united Ireland would be high on the agenda. The British government and the unionists would no longer be able to ignore or delay the movement towards unity.


Unionist fears
The magnitude of the Sinn Féin vote and the reality that it will now be negotiating the future government of Ireland will send shivers down the spine of unionism. Some will interpret it as a confirmation of what they always thought; that republicans and nationalists are not to be trusted. That there was more sympathy and support for the actions of the IRA than was admitted and that unionists' culture and political allegiances are under mortal threat. Calmer heads will see the result as a continuation and a broadening of the socially-based issues already played out in the referendums on gay marriage and abortion. They will see that the right to a house and good healthcare played a greater part in the election than political unity.

Which one of these attitudes and voices becomes dominant in the coming weeks and months will be of interest. How Sinn Féin, in the light of its success, presents and deports itself to the unionist community will be a measurement of its maturity as a party aspiring to govern. Martin McGuinness used to advise that a touch of charm went a long way in politics.



Sinn Féin has tasted success before. It supplanted the SDLP and became the dominant voice of nationalism in the North. The electoral success, however, did not result in reputational success. Sinn Féin is still not considered an effective and dynamic party of government. Since the Belfast Agreement, it has held ministries in all the larger government departments except justice. Few would award it a high score in transforming the economy, health or education.

Despite the party's years at the centre of power, all the worst indicators of poverty and ill health are to be found in working-class republican and nationalist areas. The west of Northern Ireland would still maintain that all the best jobs and infrastructure go to greater Belfast and the east of the province. Derry used to blame unionist governments for being the only city in Ireland without a university. It is now more likely to point the finger at Sinn Féin. But even west Belfast, the heartland of Gerry Adams and many other prominent republican leaders, has not improved greatly after more than a decade of Sinn Féin governance.


There used to be a quip that the Irish people would give the IRA anything but the vote
To their great annoyance, the party has often been described as economically illiterate. Adams and McGuinness were neither trained nor exposed to economic realities. Pearse Doherty eventually came through the ranks and established a reputation in this area, but he had limited exposure in the North. Instead of inviting or buying in expertise, the party surrounded itself with its own people who were equally inexperienced in those disciplines.

Army council
That culture of keeping everything within the family – courteous and respectful to outsiders but only fully trusting its own people – has served the party poorly. It is partly the reason why some believe that Sinn Féin is under the influence and direction of some unofficial army council and that this has prevented the party from engaging the expertise and the insight of people who may semi-agree or even disagree with its core policies.

The broad nationalist population of the North has had little choice but to be patient of the slow but inevitable mutation of the IRA into the constitutional party that is Sinn Féin. There used to be a quip that the Irish people would give the IRA anything but the vote. The reality now is that a great number of Irish people, north and south, will give Sinn Féin the vote but the quid pro quo is that the transformation is total and complete. Up the Ra has become No more Ra and that is the way it must stay.

Ironically, the dissident IRA will feel the impact of this election most. The Sinn Féin strategy of moving into politics and seeking a place in government in the North and the Republic is reaping enough success to expose how morally vacuous and militarily pathetic is the continuing campaign of the dissident IRA.


Denis Bradley is a journalist and former vice-chairman of the police board for the Police Service of Northern Ireland
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 12, 2020, 09:48:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 09:20:55 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/up-the-ra-has-become-no-more-ra-and-must-stay-that-way-1.4170612

Up the Ra has become No more Ra and must stay that way
Which way Sinn Féin pivots now will be crucial to its longer-term aspirations

Denis Bradley

 
About a year ago, Sinn Féin sent one of its senior Belfast members to find out what was happening in Derry. There was unrest in the Foyle constituency. The party had performed badly at council elections and there was discontent at local level. Colm Eastwood, the leader of the SDLP, was likely to take back John Hume's seat. What no one saw was the thrashing that Sinn Féin would take in the Westminster election. Eastwood got more than double the vote of the sitting Sinn Féin member.

The beating that Sinn Féin took in Derry may have been a godsend for the party. That result, more than any other, removed any uncertainty in Sinn Féin's mind about going back into government with the DUP. That in turn made it easier to sell its proposals on housing, pensions and health in the south; Irish people are generally unhappy when Stormont is not up and running. They see power-sharing as the core of the Belfast Agreement and, more importantly, of the peace process.

How Sinn Féin, in the light of its success, presents and deports itself to the unionist community will be a measurement of its maturity as a party aspiring to govern
The amazing result that Sinn Féin has just enjoyed demands a fresh look at the party's overarching strategy and its ability to deliver it. As weariness of violence and political deadlock grew, the party proposed (mostly to its own supporters) an alternative to violence and "the long war". It was to get the party into government both north and south of the Border. From that position of power and strength, the push for a united Ireland would be high on the agenda. The British government and the unionists would no longer be able to ignore or delay the movement towards unity.


Unionist fears
The magnitude of the Sinn Féin vote and the reality that it will now be negotiating the future government of Ireland will send shivers down the spine of unionism. Some will interpret it as a confirmation of what they always thought; that republicans and nationalists are not to be trusted. That there was more sympathy and support for the actions of the IRA than was admitted and that unionists' culture and political allegiances are under mortal threat. Calmer heads will see the result as a continuation and a broadening of the socially-based issues already played out in the referendums on gay marriage and abortion. They will see that the right to a house and good healthcare played a greater part in the election than political unity.

Which one of these attitudes and voices becomes dominant in the coming weeks and months will be of interest. How Sinn Féin, in the light of its success, presents and deports itself to the unionist community will be a measurement of its maturity as a party aspiring to govern. Martin McGuinness used to advise that a touch of charm went a long way in politics.



Sinn Féin has tasted success before. It supplanted the SDLP and became the dominant voice of nationalism in the North. The electoral success, however, did not result in reputational success. Sinn Féin is still not considered an effective and dynamic party of government. Since the Belfast Agreement, it has held ministries in all the larger government departments except justice. Few would award it a high score in transforming the economy, health or education.

Despite the party's years at the centre of power, all the worst indicators of poverty and ill health are to be found in working-class republican and nationalist areas. The west of Northern Ireland would still maintain that all the best jobs and infrastructure go to greater Belfast and the east of the province. Derry used to blame unionist governments for being the only city in Ireland without a university. It is now more likely to point the finger at Sinn Féin. But even west Belfast, the heartland of Gerry Adams and many other prominent republican leaders, has not improved greatly after more than a decade of Sinn Féin governance.


There used to be a quip that the Irish people would give the IRA anything but the vote
To their great annoyance, the party has often been described as economically illiterate. Adams and McGuinness were neither trained nor exposed to economic realities. Pearse Doherty eventually came through the ranks and established a reputation in this area, but he had limited exposure in the North. Instead of inviting or buying in expertise, the party surrounded itself with its own people who were equally inexperienced in those disciplines.

Army council
That culture of keeping everything within the family – courteous and respectful to outsiders but only fully trusting its own people – has served the party poorly. It is partly the reason why some believe that Sinn Féin is under the influence and direction of some unofficial army council and that this has prevented the party from engaging the expertise and the insight of people who may semi-agree or even disagree with its core policies.

The broad nationalist population of the North has had little choice but to be patient of the slow but inevitable mutation of the IRA into the constitutional party that is Sinn Féin. There used to be a quip that the Irish people would give the IRA anything but the vote. The reality now is that a great number of Irish people, north and south, will give Sinn Féin the vote but the quid pro quo is that the transformation is total and complete. Up the Ra has become No more Ra and that is the way it must stay.

Ironically, the dissident IRA will feel the impact of this election most. The Sinn Féin strategy of moving into politics and seeking a place in government in the North and the Republic is reaping enough success to expose how morally vacuous and militarily pathetic is the continuing campaign of the dissident IRA.


Denis Bradley is a journalist and former vice-chairman of the police board for the Police Service of Northern Ireland

This is my big worry. As a working class republican who voted SF for many many years in Derry City I have seen no improvement in local economics and a massive increase in crime, drugs, suicide and poor health. A new Facebook page opened up there recently "Friends and memories of Galliagh". It actually shocked me to see how many young people have died from our area in last 20 years. Now SF are not responsible for this but they worryingly made little impact on these issues in their urban heartlands, in fact they compounded the issue with their stance on welfare reform.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 12, 2020, 10:07:29 AM
If we get a new majority Government then SF will have less than half the seats in it.
The programme for Government will be a sensible achievable document (rules out PBP) which hopefully will have housing, health and regional development as its main thrust.
FF/SF/Greens have 87 seats and would be the most likely Coalition.
The pre election manifestos will join the other fairytales on the shelves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on March 05, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
Some good information on Sinn Fein in the Irish Times today, a lot of it supplied from SF's director of finance Des Mackin.

Nothing new here for our Ulster brethern I'm sure, but plenty for us in the 26. Hopefully it's a sign of bringing more transparency into Irish politics:

Long-term director of finance, Des Mackin said Sinn Féin does not want its elected representatives controlling the party.

"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Three former Sinn Féin elected representatives also told The Irish Times that Sinn Féin was a tightly controlled organisation where unelected officials sought to tell elected representatives what to do. There's nothing mysterious about it."

"There are no paper walls hiding people," he said. "It's not a case of IRA figures in a smoky room in Belfast. They are on the ardchomhairle."

The party's standing committee, the Coiste Seasta, is a key body in the running of the party. There are currently eight people on the committee, only one of whom is an elected representative. Five of the eight are from Belfast.

Sinn Féin's ultimate ruling body is its ardchomhairle, but it is a large body, sometimes with more than 50 members, and meets approximately 10 times a year. The smaller Coiste Seasta, which meets every fortnight, has the power of the ardchomhairle when the latter is not sitting, and runs the party on a day-to-day basis.

All the party's national departments report to the ardchomhairle through the Coiste Seasta, according to the Sinn Féin constitution. The committee approves all payments out of party funds that are above €250.
The current membership of the Coiste Seasta is: Sinn Féin's national chairman Declan Kearney, MLA; party general-secretary Dawn Doyle; director of elections and senior strategist Brian Tumilty; director of finance Des Mackin; Belfast party activist Conor Keenan; head of the "six-county" directorate and party chair in Belfast Sam Baker; head of the "26-county" directorate Ken O'Connell; and director of organisation Martin Lynch. Three of the members of the committee have IRA convictions.

With other major parties in the Republic, the parliamentary party meeting, where a party's elected representatives meet in private to thrash out party positions, is a key structure. Not so with Sinn Féin, according to the former Sinn Féin TD.

"It basically wasn't a parliamentary party meeting at all, because a TD with 10,000 votes would have the same say as a political assistant that walked in off the street the day before. The meetings were more akin to focus groups, in which the temperature of the room was taken, but decisions weren't taken. It was a big failing. There was a sense of disempowerment among the TDs in their ability to effect decisions."

Similar observations about how the party operates were made by two former Sinn Féin councillors who spoke with The Irish Times. The former Sinn Féin politicians said this process of headquarters seeking to exert control over elected representatives was overseen by the Coiste Seasta.

Paid party organisers "come in, to council meetings, and tell councillors what to do and what to say", said one.

"You were directed all the time," said the other. "No matter how trivial the matter [–] would tell you what way to vote. I found that very difficult. I was never a nodding dog for anyone."

Sinn Féin is the richest political party on the island of Ireland, with approximately 200 staff and, according to its director of finance, Des Mackin, an extensive property network across the island. The exact number of people employed by the party and its elected representatives is not clear, but is probably in excess of 200, he said.

The size of Sinn Féin's property portfolio has never been revealed, but according to the senior party officer, it far exceeds anything owned by its political rivals.
Sinn Féin owns up to 50 properties in constituencies around the island, over and above the four properties in Dublin and Belfast owned directly by party headquarters, Mackin said.

According to Mackin, the merchandising business operated by Sinn Féin, which sells items that celebrate the IRA and the republican struggle, is producing a profit for the first time in ages. During the general election campaign, the party's "Come Out Ye Black and Tans" T-shirts (€19.99 each) were "flying", he said.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote
"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Yes, but if I vote for SF then I expect the person elected to represent my interests and those of other voters and not the interests of SF party activists, be they retired gunmen or not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2020, 02:57:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 05, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
Some good information on Sinn Fein in the Irish Times today, a lot of it supplied from SF's director of finance Des Mackin.

Nothing new here for our Ulster brethern I'm sure, but plenty for us in the 26. Hopefully it's a sign of bringing more transparency into Irish politics:

Long-term director of finance, Des Mackin said Sinn Féin does not want its elected representatives controlling the party.

"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Three former Sinn Féin elected representatives also told The Irish Times that Sinn Féin was a tightly controlled organisation where unelected officials sought to tell elected representatives what to do. There's nothing mysterious about it."

"There are no paper walls hiding people," he said. "It's not a case of IRA figures in a smoky room in Belfast. They are on the ardchomhairle."

The party's standing committee, the Coiste Seasta, is a key body in the running of the party. There are currently eight people on the committee, only one of whom is an elected representative. Five of the eight are from Belfast.

Sinn Féin's ultimate ruling body is its ardchomhairle, but it is a large body, sometimes with more than 50 members, and meets approximately 10 times a year. The smaller Coiste Seasta, which meets every fortnight, has the power of the ardchomhairle when the latter is not sitting, and runs the party on a day-to-day basis.

All the party's national departments report to the ardchomhairle through the Coiste Seasta, according to the Sinn Féin constitution. The committee approves all payments out of party funds that are above €250.
The current membership of the Coiste Seasta is: Sinn Féin's national chairman Declan Kearney, MLA; party general-secretary Dawn Doyle; director of elections and senior strategist Brian Tumilty; director of finance Des Mackin; Belfast party activist Conor Keenan; head of the "six-county" directorate and party chair in Belfast Sam Baker; head of the "26-county" directorate Ken O'Connell; and director of organisation Martin Lynch. Three of the members of the committee have IRA convictions.

With other major parties in the Republic, the parliamentary party meeting, where a party's elected representatives meet in private to thrash out party positions, is a key structure. Not so with Sinn Féin, according to the former Sinn Féin TD.

"It basically wasn't a parliamentary party meeting at all, because a TD with 10,000 votes would have the same say as a political assistant that walked in off the street the day before. The meetings were more akin to focus groups, in which the temperature of the room was taken, but decisions weren't taken. It was a big failing. There was a sense of disempowerment among the TDs in their ability to effect decisions."

Similar observations about how the party operates were made by two former Sinn Féin councillors who spoke with The Irish Times. The former Sinn Féin politicians said this process of headquarters seeking to exert control over elected representatives was overseen by the Coiste Seasta.

Paid party organisers "come in, to council meetings, and tell councillors what to do and what to say", said one.

"You were directed all the time," said the other. "No matter how trivial the matter [–] would tell you what way to vote. I found that very difficult. I was never a nodding dog for anyone."

Sinn Féin is the richest political party on the island of Ireland, with approximately 200 staff and, according to its director of finance, Des Mackin, an extensive property network across the island. The exact number of people employed by the party and its elected representatives is not clear, but is probably in excess of 200, he said.

The size of Sinn Féin's property portfolio has never been revealed, but according to the senior party officer, it far exceeds anything owned by its political rivals.
Sinn Féin owns up to 50 properties in constituencies around the island, over and above the four properties in Dublin and Belfast owned directly by party headquarters, Mackin said.

According to Mackin, the merchandising business operated by Sinn Féin, which sells items that celebrate the IRA and the republican struggle, is producing a profit for the first time in ages. During the general election campaign, the party's "Come Out Ye Black and Tans" T-shirts (€19.99 each) were "flying", he said.

You get what you vote for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 05, 2020, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 05, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
Some good information on Sinn Fein in the Irish Times today, a lot of it supplied from SF's director of finance Des Mackin.

Nothing new here for our Ulster brethern I'm sure, but plenty for us in the 26. Hopefully it's a sign of bringing more transparency into Irish politics:

Long-term director of finance, Des Mackin said Sinn Féin does not want its elected representatives controlling the party.

"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Three former Sinn Féin elected representatives also told The Irish Times that Sinn Féin was a tightly controlled organisation where unelected officials sought to tell elected representatives what to do. There's nothing mysterious about it."

"There are no paper walls hiding people," he said. "It's not a case of IRA figures in a smoky room in Belfast. They are on the ardchomhairle."

The party's standing committee, the Coiste Seasta, is a key body in the running of the party. There are currently eight people on the committee, only one of whom is an elected representative. Five of the eight are from Belfast.

Sinn Féin's ultimate ruling body is its ardchomhairle, but it is a large body, sometimes with more than 50 members, and meets approximately 10 times a year. The smaller Coiste Seasta, which meets every fortnight, has the power of the ardchomhairle when the latter is not sitting, and runs the party on a day-to-day basis.

All the party's national departments report to the ardchomhairle through the Coiste Seasta, according to the Sinn Féin constitution. The committee approves all payments out of party funds that are above €250.
The current membership of the Coiste Seasta is: Sinn Féin's national chairman Declan Kearney, MLA; party general-secretary Dawn Doyle; director of elections and senior strategist Brian Tumilty; director of finance Des Mackin; Belfast party activist Conor Keenan; head of the "six-county" directorate and party chair in Belfast Sam Baker; head of the "26-county" directorate Ken O'Connell; and director of organisation Martin Lynch. Three of the members of the committee have IRA convictions.

With other major parties in the Republic, the parliamentary party meeting, where a party's elected representatives meet in private to thrash out party positions, is a key structure. Not so with Sinn Féin, according to the former Sinn Féin TD.

"It basically wasn't a parliamentary party meeting at all, because a TD with 10,000 votes would have the same say as a political assistant that walked in off the street the day before. The meetings were more akin to focus groups, in which the temperature of the room was taken, but decisions weren't taken. It was a big failing. There was a sense of disempowerment among the TDs in their ability to effect decisions."

Similar observations about how the party operates were made by two former Sinn Féin councillors who spoke with The Irish Times. The former Sinn Féin politicians said this process of headquarters seeking to exert control over elected representatives was overseen by the Coiste Seasta.

Paid party organisers "come in, to council meetings, and tell councillors what to do and what to say", said one.

"You were directed all the time," said the other. "No matter how trivial the matter [–] would tell you what way to vote. I found that very difficult. I was never a nodding dog for anyone."

Sinn Féin is the richest political party on the island of Ireland, with approximately 200 staff and, according to its director of finance, Des Mackin, an extensive property network across the island. The exact number of people employed by the party and its elected representatives is not clear, but is probably in excess of 200, he said.

The size of Sinn Féin's property portfolio has never been revealed, but according to the senior party officer, it far exceeds anything owned by its political rivals.
Sinn Féin owns up to 50 properties in constituencies around the island, over and above the four properties in Dublin and Belfast owned directly by party headquarters, Mackin said.

According to Mackin, the merchandising business operated by Sinn Féin, which sells items that celebrate the IRA and the republican struggle, is producing a profit for the first time in ages. During the general election campaign, the party's "Come Out Ye Black and Tans" T-shirts (€19.99 each) were "flying", he said.

What's the issue there?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 05, 2020, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote
"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Yes, but if I vote for SF then I expect the person elected to represent my interests and those of other voters and not the interests of SF party activists, be they retired gunmen or not.

I'd rather activists.

Are you a stoop?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on March 05, 2020, 09:55:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 05, 2020, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote
"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Yes, but if I vote for SF then I expect the person elected to represent my interests and those of other voters and not the interests of SF party activists, be they retired gunmen or not.

I'd rather activists.

Are you a stoop?
armaghniac is a me feiner ;D
Where has the IT been for the past 35 years?
Sinn Fein has been built on activism in the Republic since the early 1980's, especially in Dublin.
Did nobody take notes? just how dumb are the political observers ;D
The foundation of SFs  rise is as an active political entity and one that has steadily grown over 35 years to what it is now.
Had the IT taken notes on eg. Sean Crowe, an activist on local issues who gradually increased his support base and finally got elected as TD, they might have sussed it out.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 10:54:27 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 05, 2020, 09:55:19 PM
armaghniac is a me feiner ;D

Why should I vote for a party which does not care for my priorities? Those interests don't have to be selfish, I might want the Limerick A&E sorted, although I never  go to Limerick. But in a democracy the voter should be able to decide policy, not the politburo.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:05:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 05, 2020, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote
"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Yes, but if I vote for SF then I expect the person elected to represent my interests and those of other voters and not the interests of SF party activists, be they retired gunmen or not.

I'd rather activists.

Are you a stoop?

The voice of peace and reconciliation. An Ireland for all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 06, 2020, 09:22:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 10:54:27 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 05, 2020, 09:55:19 PM
armaghniac is a me feiner ;D

Why should I vote for a party which does not care for my priorities? Those interests don't have to be selfish, I might want the Limerick A&E sorted, although I never  go to Limerick. But in a democracy the voter should be able to decide policy, not the politburo.

Who do you vote for?

The problem you seem to be unable to get your head around is that you're just one vote and many voters will vote for a person for conflicting reasons. I think the direction of the SF party and its ideology is pretty clear. FF and FG on the other hand(and FF in particular), have their legacy built on promising the electorate the sun, moon and stars while they got drunk on the champagne lifestyle offered to them by the big business men and vested interests as they did their bidding and ran the country into the ground.

What's funny about the SF bashers like yourself is that you might bash SF on one hand but on the other you can't countenance the fact that the alternatives to SF are absolutely mired in political shame, corruption and a complete and utter disregard for the electorate. Are you unaware of the seismic levels of institutional corruption, mismanagement and subterfuge FF and FG have been involved in since the inception of the stage? Or is it that it doesn't sit well with your agenda?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 09:26:37 AM
If your defence is that SF can be useless because the rest have been useless then that is not very ambitious.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 06, 2020, 09:40:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 09:26:37 AM
If your defence is that SF can be useless because the rest have been useless then that is not very ambitious.

It's not a defence, it's a balanced viewpoint. It doesn't mean SF are immune from criticism, there's a lot of things I'd have issues with them on too.

But a ballot paper is a selection, you have a list of options and for me if it came down to choosing between SF, FF or FG - I think SF have far more political integrity, far more interest in developing a fairer society, don't have a smidgen of the political corruption and incompetence that FG and FF's legacy is tainted with.

Your issue is that you don't want to impart balance on your views.

Who is it you vote for anyway?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 10:02:39 AM
SF have more integrity....
Great fairytales of our times  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 06, 2020, 10:11:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 10:02:39 AM
SF have more integrity....
Great fairytales of our times  ;D

To be fair, if your comparing against FF & FG that's not a huge achievement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 06, 2020, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 10:02:39 AM
SF have more integrity....
Great fairytales of our times  ;D

Than FG or FF?

Without doubt they have more integrity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 06, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2020, 02:57:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 05, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
Some good information on Sinn Fein in the Irish Times today, a lot of it supplied from SF's director of finance Des Mackin.

Nothing new here for our Ulster brethern I'm sure, but plenty for us in the 26. Hopefully it's a sign of bringing more transparency into Irish politics:

Long-term director of finance, Des Mackin said Sinn Féin does not want its elected representatives controlling the party.

"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Three former Sinn Féin elected representatives also told The Irish Times that Sinn Féin was a tightly controlled organisation where unelected officials sought to tell elected representatives what to do. There's nothing mysterious about it."

"There are no paper walls hiding people," he said. "It's not a case of IRA figures in a smoky room in Belfast. They are on the ardchomhairle."

The party's standing committee, the Coiste Seasta, is a key body in the running of the party. There are currently eight people on the committee, only one of whom is an elected representative. Five of the eight are from Belfast.

Sinn Féin's ultimate ruling body is its ardchomhairle, but it is a large body, sometimes with more than 50 members, and meets approximately 10 times a year. The smaller Coiste Seasta, which meets every fortnight, has the power of the ardchomhairle when the latter is not sitting, and runs the party on a day-to-day basis.

All the party's national departments report to the ardchomhairle through the Coiste Seasta, according to the Sinn Féin constitution. The committee approves all payments out of party funds that are above €250.
The current membership of the Coiste Seasta is: Sinn Féin's national chairman Declan Kearney, MLA; party general-secretary Dawn Doyle; director of elections and senior strategist Brian Tumilty; director of finance Des Mackin; Belfast party activist Conor Keenan; head of the "six-county" directorate and party chair in Belfast Sam Baker; head of the "26-county" directorate Ken O'Connell; and director of organisation Martin Lynch. Three of the members of the committee have IRA convictions.

With other major parties in the Republic, the parliamentary party meeting, where a party's elected representatives meet in private to thrash out party positions, is a key structure. Not so with Sinn Féin, according to the former Sinn Féin TD.

"It basically wasn't a parliamentary party meeting at all, because a TD with 10,000 votes would have the same say as a political assistant that walked in off the street the day before. The meetings were more akin to focus groups, in which the temperature of the room was taken, but decisions weren't taken. It was a big failing. There was a sense of disempowerment among the TDs in their ability to effect decisions."

Similar observations about how the party operates were made by two former Sinn Féin councillors who spoke with The Irish Times. The former Sinn Féin politicians said this process of headquarters seeking to exert control over elected representatives was overseen by the Coiste Seasta.

Paid party organisers "come in, to council meetings, and tell councillors what to do and what to say", said one.

"You were directed all the time," said the other. "No matter how trivial the matter [–] would tell you what way to vote. I found that very difficult. I was never a nodding dog for anyone."

Sinn Féin is the richest political party on the island of Ireland, with approximately 200 staff and, according to its director of finance, Des Mackin, an extensive property network across the island. The exact number of people employed by the party and its elected representatives is not clear, but is probably in excess of 200, he said.

The size of Sinn Féin's property portfolio has never been revealed, but according to the senior party officer, it far exceeds anything owned by its political rivals.
Sinn Féin owns up to 50 properties in constituencies around the island, over and above the four properties in Dublin and Belfast owned directly by party headquarters, Mackin said.

According to Mackin, the merchandising business operated by Sinn Féin, which sells items that celebrate the IRA and the republican struggle, is producing a profit for the first time in ages. During the general election campaign, the party's "Come Out Ye Black and Tans" T-shirts (€19.99 each) were "flying", he said.

You get what you vote for.

Apparently not. The people voted for SF, but they aren't going to get SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 06, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
Apparently not. The people voted for SF, but they aren't going to get SF.

A quarter of people voted for SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 11:21:02 AM
1st preferences
SF 24%
FF 22.4%
FG 20.8%
Lab/SDP/PbP 10% between them.
Greens 7%
Rest whatever  - c16%.

That's who "the people voted for" a total mixumgatherum  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 06, 2020, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 06, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
Apparently not. The people voted for SF, but they aren't going to get SF.

A quarter of people voted for SF.

You still haven't answered who it is you vote for?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 11:37:41 AM
It's a secret ballot for fk sake.
Plus he's not obliged to answer to you...... or will you be sending the baseball bat crew around?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 06, 2020, 11:50:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 11:37:41 AM
It's a secret ballot for fk sake.
Plus he's not obliged to answer to you...... or will you be sending the baseball bat crew around?

Well if you're able to shout the odds then you shouldn't be afraid to put your own colours on the mast.

Plenty of SF bashers here are very reticent to disclose who they vote for, maybe it's because a lot of their outrage pales in significance when we see their political allegiance.

The baseball bat crew? I think you'll find FF/FG are more likely to send round a few baton yielding policeman than SF are to send round a few lads with baseball bats.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on March 06, 2020, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote
"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Yes, but if I vote for SF then I expect the person elected to represent my interests and those of other voters and not the interests of SF party activists, be they retired gunmen or not.

That's why I don't vote. No party represents my interests. And as you say, all parties look after themselves, first and foremost. The general publics interests are a very distant second place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 06, 2020, 12:57:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 06, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
Apparently not. The people voted for SF, but they aren't going to get SF.

A quarter of people voted for SF.

For those trying to be pedantic, the phrase "the people voted for <party name>" doesn't mean literally all the people voted for them, or even that most of the whole population voted for them, funnily enough. It's what most non-bitter people understand is just a fairly standard phrase, used to describe the party that got the most voted from the people. You'll see it used the world over, I promise. I didn't think you'd have needed me to explain that, but here we are.

Sour grapes must just taste so awful :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 01:06:15 PM
24% isnt "the people" no matter how you Spinn it.
That term is usually applied where a majority voted for someone or something e g the Brits and their Brexit, us and the Same sex Marriage and Abortion referenda(ums?).
Anyway looks like FF and FG will cobble something together and SF can be indignant and continue to complain about everything which is probably where they wanted to be all along.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 06, 2020, 01:30:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 01:06:15 PM
24% isnt "the people" no matter how you Spinn it.
That term is usually applied where a majority voted for someone or something e g the Brits and their Brexit, us and the Same sex Marriage and Abortion referenda(ums?).
Anyway looks like FF and FG will cobble something together and SF can be indignant and continue to complain about everything which is probably where they wanted to be all along.

Sour grapes. Boo hoo  :-[
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/xT9Igy8KIcbU3DfjeU/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 06, 2020, 02:19:57 PM
Of course I am no fan of SF but in this instance they should form a government and actually govern.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on March 06, 2020, 02:30:30 PM
I seem to recall a Fianna Fail TD back in the day quoting, was it Mark Twain, when he said: "the people have spoken, the bastards!" FF were just voted as the most popular party with over 40% of the vote but they had badly lost the election. The government was going to be two smaller parties, FG/Lab. SF are indeed the most popular party (and should be in gov), but it's a bit like saying the mother is the best musician in Crystal Swing, when none of them would be that great. By historical standards, SF/FF/FG are all in very unpopular percentages by any measure and thus none of them have a strong hand when it comes to forming a government. I don't think you could even have another election now with the Coronavirus - don't think people will want politicians coming around giving the knee or the elbow and looking for a vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 06, 2020, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 06, 2020, 02:30:30 PM
I seem to recall a Fianna Fail TD back in the day quoting, was it Mark Twain, when he said: "the people have spoken, the bastards!" FF were just voted as the most popular party with over 40% of the vote but they had badly lost the election. The government was going to be two smaller parties, FG/Lab. SF are indeed the most popular party (and should be in gov), but it's a bit like saying the mother is the best musician in Crystal Swing, when none of them would be that great. By historical standards, SF/FF/FG are all in very unpopular percentages by any measure and thus none of them have a strong hand when it comes to forming a government. I don't think you could even have another election now with the Coronavirus - don't think people will want politicians coming around giving the knee or the elbow and looking for a vote.

Is that an actual Mark Twain quote?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on March 06, 2020, 04:18:28 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 06, 2020, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 06, 2020, 02:30:30 PM
I seem to recall a Fianna Fail TD back in the day quoting, was it Mark Twain, when he said: "the people have spoken, the bastards!" FF were just voted as the most popular party with over 40% of the vote but they had badly lost the election. The government was going to be two smaller parties, FG/Lab. SF are indeed the most popular party (and should be in gov), but it's a bit like saying the mother is the best musician in Crystal Swing, when none of them would be that great. By historical standards, SF/FF/FG are all in very unpopular percentages by any measure and thus none of them have a strong hand when it comes to forming a government. I don't think you could even have another election now with the Coronavirus - don't think people will want politicians coming around giving the knee or the elbow and looking for a vote.

Is that an actual Mark Twain quote?

Appears to be attributed to him, but have no historical source for that. In more modern times, an American politician Dick Tuck had used it in his senate concession speech in 1966.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 06:50:17 PM
Maryloo not going to Washington for St. Patrick's Day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 07, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 06, 2020, 02:19:57 PM
Of course I am no fan of SF but in this instance they should form a government and actually govern.

They tried, Labour ruled it out, the numbers aren't there.

I'm not sure what people expect SF to do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 07, 2020, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 07, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
I'm not sure what people expect SF to do.

Be a bit less objectionable so people will form governments with them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 07, 2020, 03:19:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 07, 2020, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 07, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
I'm not sure what people expect SF to do.

Be a bit less objectionable so people will form governments with them?

Who do you vote for?

Maybe a hurler on the ditch party would get your vote?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
Mo'N losing all credibility this morning. Yesterday "Schools shouldn't close" just over 12 hours later, on her own with no Health professionals "Schools should close"
People need leadership. Not SF and Mo'N off on a county solo run. Demonstrates wonderfully their inability to lead or govern. I wonder was the advice coming from their own set of advisers as opposed to actual experts?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on March 13, 2020, 12:53:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
Mo'N losing all credibility this morning. Yesterday "Schools shouldn't close" just over 12 hours later, on her own with no Health professionals "Schools should close"
People need leadership. Not SF and Mo'N off on a county solo run. Demonstrates wonderfully their inability to lead or govern. I wonder was the advice coming from their own set of advisers as opposed to actual experts?

Is she trying to put distance between herself and Arlene before the report comes out?? Dangerous playing politics in the middle of an unprecedented health crisis!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on March 13, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2020, 12:53:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
Mo'N losing all credibility this morning. Yesterday "Schools shouldn't close" just over 12 hours later, on her own with no Health professionals "Schools should close"
People need leadership. Not SF and Mo'N off on a county solo run. Demonstrates wonderfully their inability to lead or govern. I wonder was the advice coming from their own set of advisers as opposed to actual experts?

Is she trying to put distance between herself and Arlene before the report comes out?? Dangerous playing politics in the middle of an unprecedented health crisis!

MON supports school closings because the South are doing it.
AF is opposed to school closings because the South are doing it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 01:36:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2020, 12:53:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
Mo'N losing all credibility this morning. Yesterday "Schools shouldn't close" just over 12 hours later, on her own with no Health professionals "Schools should close"
People need leadership. Not SF and Mo'N off on a county solo run. Demonstrates wonderfully their inability to lead or govern. I wonder was the advice coming from their own set of advisers as opposed to actual experts?

Is she trying to put distance between herself and Arlene before the report comes out?? Dangerous playing politics in the middle of an unprecedented health crisis!

Or maybe she has got new advice?? Schools in the south closed at 6pm yesterday (Thursday), on Wednesday they were open. Things are moving very fast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 13, 2020, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 01:36:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2020, 12:53:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
Mo'N losing all credibility this morning. Yesterday "Schools shouldn't close" just over 12 hours later, on her own with no Health professionals "Schools should close"
People need leadership. Not SF and Mo'N off on a county solo run. Demonstrates wonderfully their inability to lead or govern. I wonder was the advice coming from their own set of advisers as opposed to actual experts?

Is she trying to put distance between herself and Arlene before the report comes out?? Dangerous playing politics in the middle of an unprecedented health crisis!

Or maybe she has got new advice?? Schools in the south closed at 6pm yesterday (Thursday), on Wednesday they were open. Things are moving very fast.

The Taoiseach's statement yesterday caught the FM/DFM on the hop. Foster stated as much yesterday and planning for an agreed All-Ireland response was not possible. I think Michelle O'Neill is merely calling for a realignment of policy across the island in response to having been caught on the hop. At the end of the day, she's saying what even Stephen Nolan & Jamie Bryson have been conceding, as well as a succession of medical experts - that an agreed all-Ireland response is required.

I suspect Trailer would know this much. His real problem is that it was a shinner making the statement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on March 13, 2020, 02:06:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
Mo'N losing all credibility this morning. Yesterday "Schools shouldn't close" just over 12 hours later, on her own with no Health professionals "Schools should close"
People need leadership. Not SF and Mo'N off on a county solo run. Demonstrates wonderfully their inability to lead or govern. I wonder was the advice coming from their own set of advisers as opposed to actual experts?

You sir never miss an opportunity to let us all know you are an absolute twat.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2020, 02:37:35 PM
SF on a Solo run. What advice has she taken? From who? She literally said it was people ringing SF offices!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2020, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2020, 12:53:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
Mo'N losing all credibility this morning. Yesterday "Schools shouldn't close" just over 12 hours later, on her own with no Health professionals "Schools should close"
People need leadership. Not SF and Mo'N off on a county solo run. Demonstrates wonderfully their inability to lead or govern. I wonder was the advice coming from their own set of advisers as opposed to actual experts?

Is she trying to put distance between herself and Arlene before the report comes out?? Dangerous playing politics in the middle of an unprecedented health crisis!

MON supports school closings because the South are doing it.
AF is opposed to school closings because the South are doing it.

MON supports school closings because the South are doing it. Not correct - It's because people are ringing SF offices
AF is opposed to school closings because the South are doing it. Not correct - AF is acting on advcie

Mo'N at 5:30pm supported not closign schools. At 10am she, on her own supported closing them.
SF couldn't run a bath.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2020, 04:38:13 PM
She's out of her depth. She was asked on the news yesterday about differences in approach between North and South and said we had to put her faith in the science. Got home and people obviously started reminding her she was in an All Ireland party. Very embarrassing for the sinners.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on March 13, 2020, 04:44:06 PM
I vote for SF but this is a major own goal.

One can only assume MON has changed her mind to keep voters onside - she and other party members obviously felt the backlash last night.

She hasnt said she consulted any experts so disgruntled parents have made her change her mind.

Yet another clusterfuck in this basketcase of a place
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 13, 2020, 04:50:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 13, 2020, 04:44:06 PM
I vote for SF but this is a major own goal.

One can only assume MON has changed her mind to keep voters onside - she and other party members obviously felt the backlash last night.

She hasnt said she consulted any experts so disgruntled parents have made her change her mind.

Yet another clusterfuck in this basketcase of a place

Social media policy making
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2020, 05:46:59 PM
It just demonstrates their complete inability to lead. And people want them to govern the south! Scary! SF don't listen to experts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on March 13, 2020, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 13, 2020, 02:06:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
Mo'N losing all credibility this morning. Yesterday "Schools shouldn't close" just over 12 hours later, on her own with no Health professionals "Schools should close"
People need leadership. Not SF and Mo'N off on a county solo run. Demonstrates wonderfully their inability to lead or govern. I wonder was the advice coming from their own set of advisers as opposed to actual experts?

You sir never miss an opportunity to let us all know you are an absolute twat.
How?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2020, 09:59:13 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 13, 2020, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 13, 2020, 02:06:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
Mo'N losing all credibility this morning. Yesterday "Schools shouldn't close" just over 12 hours later, on her own with no Health professionals "Schools should close"
People need leadership. Not SF and Mo'N off on a county solo run. Demonstrates wonderfully their inability to lead or govern. I wonder was the advice coming from their own set of advisers as opposed to actual experts?

You sir never miss an opportunity to let us all know you are an absolute twat.
How?

Some people just see no wrong in SF. Sheep. Following along. Sad. They probably give everything to the party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 14, 2020, 06:47:45 AM
Never read such nonsense. Of course instigated by a tiresome SF bashing halfwit.

Since Thursday, we've had a succession of experts on TV and radio saying the differing approaches on one small island is a bad idea. I suspect, especially seeing how generally popular the new rules have been received in the south, that most people in the north would agree with MON's position.

If Boris Johnston wants GB to take an approach that the rest of Europe seems highly disapproving of, why should we feel obliged to tag along with him and persist with running two contradictory policies this small island.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on March 14, 2020, 07:32:00 AM
Unashamed grandstanding from MON, not helped by Varadkar IMO, the ROI's unilateral action without more than a 10 minute notification is a nonsense. Without NI on board, the disjointed action will extend the pain on the whole island.

 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on March 14, 2020, 12:26:35 PM
The Ard Chomraile probably got their wires crossed and something like this happened.

Two anoraks watching TV.
"Come on United. We have them now... ah who the F is texting now..."
"It's O'Neill. She wants direction on whether to close the schools."
"What the F? Women texting while we are watching Man U. Martin would never do that."
"She says Leo has closed them in the Free State."
"Well if that hoor Leo jumped in a lake would we jump in a lake."
"No, although I would love to dump the bastard in a lake."
"Good one. Well, we are not closing the schools. Patrick Pearce a schoolteacher didn't die so our wee skites would be wandering the streets getting into all kinds of trouble."
"Too right. And end up uneducated fools like Jamie Bryson"
"Or be on the streets buying drugs from Bryson."
"Or throwing stones at the RUC..."
"There are some benefits. But no closing the schools and tell her no texting us questions while we are watching Man U".
Next day
"It's a text from Mary Lou."
"Okay, close the schools."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 14, 2020, 01:27:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 14, 2020, 06:47:45 AM
Never read such nonsense. Of course instigated by a tiresome SF bashing halfwit.

Since Thursday, we've had a succession of experts on TV and radio saying the differing approaches on one small island is a bad idea. I suspect, especially seeing how generally popular the new rules have been received in the south, that most people in the north would agree with MON's position.

If Boris Johnston wants GB to take an approach that the rest of Europe seems highly disapproving of, why should we feel obliged to tag along with him and persist with running two contradictory policies this small island.

All hail the leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 14, 2020, 02:43:06 PM
Nationalist opinion in the north was in favour of following Leo's lead before the COBRA decision. Justin McNulty tweeted as such as did a number of SF party activists. Personally I am not sure what the approach should be. But instinctively don't trust Johnsons motives. The idea that they are trying to get herd immunity whilst culling the same herd strikes me as ringing true. Leo should have flagged his action to the NI executive. But as someone who is in the vulnerable section of society I'd rather err on the side of caution and close the schools. O'Neill is not a good leader and 2 hours before she U turned she let Hargey defend the previous days decision on GMU. Mary Lou needs to take control and get John O'Dowd promoted soon as.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2020, 03:24:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 14, 2020, 02:43:06 PM
Nationalist opinion in the north was in favour of following Leo's lead before the COBRA decision. Justin McNulty tweeted as such as did a number of SF party activists. Personally I am not sure what the approach should be. But instinctively don't trust Johnsons motives. The idea that they are trying to get herd immunity whilst culling the same herd strikes me as ringing true. Leo should have flagged his action to the NI executive. But as someone who is in the vulnerable section of society I'd rather err on the side of caution and close the schools. O'Neill is not a good leader and 2 hours before she U turned she let Hargey defend the previous days decision on GMU. Mary Lou needs to take control and get John O'Dowd promoted soon as.

None of us know what the approach should be. However Leo's action is in the general run of action in Europe generally and the WHO have commended Ireland while criticising London. It is shocking that again the DUP want to defy geography just to show how British they are. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on March 14, 2020, 03:38:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 14, 2020, 02:43:06 PM
Nationalist opinion in the north was in favour of following Leo's lead before the COBRA decision. Justin McNulty tweeted as such as did a number of SF party activists. Personally I am not sure what the approach should be. But instinctively don't trust Johnsons motives. The idea that they are trying to get herd immunity whilst culling the same herd strikes me as ringing true. Leo should have flagged his action to the NI executive. But as someone who is in the vulnerable section of society I'd rather err on the side of caution and close the schools. O'Neill is not a good leader and 2 hours before she U turned she let Hargey defend the previous days decision on GMU. Mary Lou needs to take control and get John O'Dowd promoted soon as.

Common sense approach is to work on an all island basis - no other way round it.  Sure, even Bryson agrees with this method!!!

I think everyone agrees schools will close, just at what time.  I thought they would not go back on Wednesday, after the 2 day lay off but things are changing rapidly.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Yes none of us know whether the approach adopted by almost every country in Europe and China is right versus the approach taken by one country with an idiot in charge which is based on loads of old people dieing and the rest of the population catching it and magically developing immunity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on March 14, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Yes none of us know whether the approach adopted by almost every country in Europe and China is right versus the approach taken by one country with an idiot in charge which is based on loads of old people dieing and the rest of the population catching it and magically developing immunity.
The UK actually do have quite a clear strategic plan tho. What is the ROI plan? Lockdown with 1/5th of the island on a different page and then what?Ireland as an island will suffer very badly from the disjointed approach, there will be repeated flare ups.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:43:28 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 14, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Yes none of us know whether the approach adopted by almost every country in Europe and China is right versus the approach taken by one country with an idiot in charge which is based on loads of old people dieing and the rest of the population catching it and magically developing immunity.
The UK actually do have quite a clear strategic plan tho. What is the ROI plan? Lockdown with 1/5th of the island on a different page and then what?Ireland as an island will suffer very badly from the disjointed approach, there will be repeated flare ups.

4/5 of the island has a plan outlined by the WHO, experts. 1/5 is following the lead of a government the have no land connection to. Are you suggesting the 4/5 should change in that scenario? I believe the uk have a plan that's reckless, brutal and will result in 1000s of lives. People in north should ignore it and follow the south's lead. Start by keeping your kids home from school on monday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on March 14, 2020, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 14, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Yes none of us know whether the approach adopted by almost every country in Europe and China is right versus the approach taken by one country with an idiot in charge which is based on loads of old people dieing and the rest of the population catching it and magically developing immunity.
The UK actually do have quite a clear strategic plan tho. What is the ROI plan? Lockdown with 1/5th of the island on a different page and then what?Ireland as an island will suffer very badly from the disjointed approach, there will be repeated flare ups.

My thoughts exactly.

The UK also still have the option to escalate at pace.

—-

I've pretty much signed out of Twitter now. Too many people from NI border towns giving off that their neighbours kids are off school and theirs are not. These people aren't actually sure why they want their kids off school, or how they'll pay for this "privilege" or how they'll entertain and stimulate their children. They're just ranting. Something about viruses don't obey borders. Ranting f**king ranting.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:58:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 14, 2020, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 14, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Yes none of us know whether the approach adopted by almost every country in Europe and China is right versus the approach taken by one country with an idiot in charge which is based on loads of old people dieing and the rest of the population catching it and magically developing immunity.
The UK actually do have quite a clear strategic plan tho. What is the ROI plan? Lockdown with 1/5th of the island on a different page and then what?Ireland as an island will suffer very badly from the disjointed approach, there will be repeated flare ups.

My thoughts exactly.

The UK also still have the option to escalate at pace.

—-

I've pretty much signed out of Twitter now. Too many people from NI border towns giving off that their neighbours kids are off school and theirs are not. These people aren't actually sure why they want their kids off school, or how they'll pay for this "privilege" or how they'll entertain and stimulate their children. They're just ranting. Something about viruses don't obey borders. Ranting f**king ranting.

And yet as ignorant as they might be they are still smarter than you .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 05:01:15 PM
Herd immunity = sacrifice your parents and grand parents and hope for the best. If you buy into that you have lost your humanity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on March 14, 2020, 05:14:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:58:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 14, 2020, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 14, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Yes none of us know whether the approach adopted by almost every country in Europe and China is right versus the approach taken by one country with an idiot in charge which is based on loads of old people dieing and the rest of the population catching it and magically developing immunity.
The UK actually do have quite a clear strategic plan tho. What is the ROI plan? Lockdown with 1/5th of the island on a different page and then what?Ireland as an island will suffer very badly from the disjointed approach, there will be repeated flare ups.

My thoughts exactly.

The UK also still have the option to escalate at pace.

—-

I've pretty much signed out of Twitter now. Too many people from NI border towns giving off that their neighbours kids are off school and theirs are not. These people aren't actually sure why they want their kids off school, or how they'll pay for this "privilege" or how they'll entertain and stimulate their children. They're just ranting. Something about viruses don't obey borders. Ranting f**king ranting.

And yet as ignorant as they might be they are still smarter than you .

"Ignorant"?

Itchy, listen fella.

Your thoughts on how governments should respond to corona are opinions and predictions.  They aren't facts. Even if you repeat them again and again and again and again, they still don't become facts. Even if you paint them in 100 foot letters on a wall, they still don't become facts.

It is a grey subject. There is no right answer. It is conjecture.

I have no problem with you choosing to be ultra cautious. That is your right.

But have some tolerance for those of us who wish to remain open minded about the situation.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 05:17:45 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 14, 2020, 05:14:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:58:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 14, 2020, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 14, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Yes none of us know whether the approach adopted by almost every country in Europe and China is right versus the approach taken by one country with an idiot in charge which is based on loads of old people dieing and the rest of the population catching it and magically developing immunity.
The UK actually do have quite a clear strategic plan tho. What is the ROI plan? Lockdown with 1/5th of the island on a different page and then what?Ireland as an island will suffer very badly from the disjointed approach, there will be repeated flare ups.

My thoughts exactly.

The UK also still have the option to escalate at pace.

—-

I've pretty much signed out of Twitter now. Too many people from NI border towns giving off that their neighbours kids are off school and theirs are not. These people aren't actually sure why they want their kids off school, or how they'll pay for this "privilege" or how they'll entertain and stimulate their children. They're just ranting. Something about viruses don't obey borders. Ranting f**king ranting.

And yet as ignorant as they might be they are still smarter than you .

"Ignorant"?

Itchy, listen fella.

Your thoughts on how governments should respond to corona are opinions and predictions.  They aren't facts. Even if you repeat them again and again and again and again, they still don't become facts. Even if you paint them in 100 foot letters on a wall, they still don't become facts.

It is a grey subject. There is no right answer. It is conjecture.

I have no problem with you choosing to be ultra cautious. That is your right.

But have some tolerance for those of us who wish to remain open minded about the situation.

Yes ignorant as per the reasons to close school if I take your description of these border people to be fact.

And no I wont be tolerant of people who are recklessly ignoring the advise of the WHO and putting the lives of my parents and everyone else's parents at risk on this island.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on March 14, 2020, 05:20:05 PM
Tell me Itchy about the changes you've made to your own life in the past month.

I suspect you're a f**king mouthpiece rather than a leader here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 05:21:21 PM
I wish this virus had a bias for stupid f**kers and not old people. Anyways I'm going to leave it there, in a week or two we will see how open minded you are when people you know start to drop.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on March 14, 2020, 05:37:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 05:21:21 PM
I wish this virus had a bias for stupid f**kers and not old people. Anyways I'm going to leave it there, in a week or two we will see how open minded you are when people you know start to drop.

And at that point you might admit that because you changed little to nothing about your own personal habits, or those of your family, that your neglect of personal responsibility was at least as contributory as government delays.

No actually, you won't. You have that personality trait where you will always find someone else to blame.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on March 14, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Whatever about what Michelle O'Neill did yesterday John O'Dowd has blown it out of the water. . . what in God's name is he hoping to achieve with a statement like that when we need politicians working together??

So badly advised I mean even the wording of the statement jesus!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Whatever about what Michelle O'Neill did yesterday John O'Dowd has blown it out of the water. . . what in God's name is he hoping to achieve with a statement like that when we need politicians working together??

So badly advised I mean even the wording of the statement jesus!

I actually thought it was a parody account when I saw the tweet
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 14, 2020, 05:37:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 05:21:21 PM
I wish this virus had a bias for stupid f**kers and not old people. Anyways I'm going to leave it there, in a week or two we will see how open minded you are when people you know start to drop.

And at that point you might admit that because you changed little to nothing about your own personal habits, or those of your family, that your neglect of personal responsibility was at least as contributory as government delays.

No actually, you won't. You have that personality trait where you will always find someone else to blame.

You are complete moron, everyone here can see that. You have been making little of this crisis since it started. You are endangering your family, your friends and your fellow country man. Maybe you are in denial, maybe you are just to big of a coward to face the reality of whats coming. In summation your attitude is pathetic and selfish - horrible traits in any human being.

In the hope it might help someone who is genuinely interested (you clearly are not) I will tell you all what I have been doing since this came to our shores and the relevant advise was released by the WHO through the government.

- I am washing my hands much more frequently than before, 30 seconds at least with warm water and soaps. My wife and kids the same.
- Only one of us goes to the shops (no kids). Normally it is me. I try to not use my hands to open doors. I am very conscious of not touching my face or rubbing my eyes. When I leave the shop I use sanitiser before I get into the car. When I get home I wipe down the packaging of what I have bought - similar to the practice we use in medical device industry.
- We are not socialising, not going to pubs or restaurants. We go for walks by ourselves. I just brought the dog for a walk hence missing your last message.
- I am frequently calling my elderly parents at home, checking in on them. I am telling them to stay home and give the pub a miss. I tell them what I do when I go to the shop
- No play dates for kids but we can play football outside and keep them busy. Kids will not die but they will spread this disease

At Work

I am part of the plant emergency response team. There are 1000 people in the plant. We are in constant discussions with IBEC and Corporate for the latest information

- We have asked as many people as possible to work from home.
- We are practicing social distancing, avoid being closer than 2 meters from the next person.
- We have rearranged work stations where possible to keep a 2m distance.
- We have turned off machines and lines where 2m distance is not possible.
- We have removed 50% of chairs from the canteen
- We have held small group meetings with the employees and they are all bought in and I am very proud of the way they continue to turn up and make critical medical devices for vulnerable people while adhering to a strict regime of social distancing.
- We have cancelled meetings, critical ones must be less than 15 minutes
- We have staggered shifts so one finishes 30 mins before the next one starts, avoiding crowds of people meeting
- We are asking people who have been to the list of infected countries to stay at home for 2 weeks paid. We have done same with people who were in cheltenham.

At the GAA club I am committee member

- We stopped training and games early this week
- We have stopped our lotto, only doing online from this Saturday
- We have shared all best practice posters through our social media and email outlets
- We have set up a group which will help elderly in the parish get things from the shops etc


I am no hero, I consider this  to be the absolute basics of humanity - to look out for your fellow man. Unfortunately I look around and so many people are thinking I am young, I will be alright. They probably will. But they will spread this disease and kill so many people. If you don't believe me please take time to watch this video of Baz Interviewing Dr Paddy Mallon. Just look our for your fellow Irish man, you dont have to make that many sacrifices and you will get by fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CsAeuFAPy4
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 14, 2020, 06:40:07 PM
Maybe we need a few deaths to get people to get their heads out of their holes
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on March 14, 2020, 06:57:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Whatever about what Michelle O'Neill did yesterday John O'Dowd has blown it out of the water. . . what in God's name is he hoping to achieve with a statement like that when we need politicians working together??

So badly advised I mean even the wording of the statement jesus!

Is a shire of bastards different from a shower of bastards?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 07:00:19 PM
Quote from: dec on March 14, 2020, 06:57:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Whatever about what Michelle O'Neill did yesterday John O'Dowd has blown it out of the water. . . what in God's name is he hoping to achieve with a statement like that when we need politicians working together??

So badly advised I mean even the wording of the statement jesus!

Is a shire of bastards different from a shower of bastards?

Predictive text? Strange choice of word.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardtole on March 14, 2020, 07:17:05 PM
I have to agree with itchy on this one. I'm from co down but living in navan at present, and the people in the south seem to have got the message. There is a significant change in attitudes from most of the population.

From talking to friends and family at home I dont think the same message is getting through, and maybe that is due to the different approaches from the two governments.

I watched Claire Byrne last Monday evening and personally it was a real eye opener for me. Simon Coveney was on and I genuinely feel he looked "shook", it was as if he knew what was coming down the road, but was limited to what he could say.

Growing up in the north through the troubles I think we have a tendency to be able to get on with things in general,  it takes quite a bit to alarm us. I was in New York on Sept 11 and wasn't overly worried.

But there is something about this virus that really concerns me, maybe it's because I've a young family, or my parents are in the most at risk category but I've being taking all the cautions that Itchy mentioned.

I dont think there is any harm in being overly cautious and if this blows over in 2 weeks with minimal fuss, il be only too happy to say I was wrong, and I'd be only too happy to have to do that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on March 14, 2020, 07:22:50 PM
Ardtole, I agree. People will take it more seriously in the south because of the govt action. That can only be a good thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2020, 07:36:01 PM
In some ways, this is a bit like driving. Every time you go out and drive at 100Kmh it is intrinsically dangerous.  Yet we in these islands have one of the lowest fatality rates in the world because people wait their turn, because they check before they pull out, because they keep their distance, because they maintain their cars, because they don't drink and drive, because some roads have  been redesigned. If people could be equally disciplined in staying home when sick, in not shaking hands, in washing their hands, in keeping their distance etc then like the roads there will still be deaths, but not too many.
When I learned to drive there was 5 times the rate of road death, and I knew people killed in those years. We copped on as a society and  we need to do so in this matter also.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on March 14, 2020, 08:18:27 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 07:00:19 PM
Quote from: dec on March 14, 2020, 06:57:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Whatever about what Michelle O'Neill did yesterday John O'Dowd has blown it out of the water. . . what in God's name is he hoping to achieve with a statement like that when we need politicians working together??

So badly advised I mean even the wording of the statement jesus!

Is a shire of bastards different from a shower of bastards?

Predictive text? Strange choice of word.

Maybe a play on words...the Shires of England????
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on March 14, 2020, 08:27:55 PM
Get my head shired - common terminology in Lurgan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2020, 09:50:47 PM
Sinn féin are just a very amateurish party. End of
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/

Could be/within the next 20 days. They could also be dead within the next 20 days.

Or Boris's Herd Immunity might actually work and I might win an All Ireland with Down before I'm 60.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:49:15 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/

Could be/within the next 20 days. They could also be dead within the next 20 days.

Or Boris's Herd Immunity might actually work and I might win an All Ireland with Down before I'm 60.

It may work, it may not. Time will tell. They have a strategy they think will minimise the impact. Do you have a strategy or plan for winning that 6th one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:49:15 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/

Could be/within the next 20 days. They could also be dead within the next 20 days.

Or Boris's Herd Immunity might actually work and I might win an All Ireland with Down before I'm 60.

It may work, it may not. Time will tell. They have a strategy they think will minimise the impact. Do you have a strategy or plan for winning that 6th one.

Define work. Is say 50k dead old people and an immune remaining population to be defined as a good outcome?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on March 14, 2020, 11:02:47 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.

The Brits carried out genocide in Ireland during the famine, starving the country. Now they're going to try it on their own people, and us in the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on March 14, 2020, 11:05:13 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.

Fair play to O'Dowd.  Language was strong but hopefully it focuses the minds.

Schools should just uni-laterally close.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 11:40:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 11:23:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 14, 2020, 11:05:13 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.

Fair play to O'Dowd.  Language was strong but hopefully it focuses the minds.

Schools should just uni-laterally close.
I understand and largely agree about closing schools but it needs to be appreciated how big a step it is and a number of ducks need put in a row first. They will close soon but it appears that it will last for a number of months. There are GCSE & A Levels to be addressed. These things determine university places etc. There will be some shitstorm to come when "our Ciara should've got into her course but they made a balls of it..." etc. Inquiry after inquiry and at the end of the day the gov will get it in the neck.
Now, is this more important than people's lives? No. Are they guessing how much time they can buy to allow them to have a look at solutions to problems such as above? Probably.

People don't seem to realise this, as if the schools are just closing for midterm. It's an unprecedented step and obviously the decision isn't being taken lightly 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 11:59:49 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:49:15 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/

Could be/within the next 20 days. They could also be dead within the next 20 days.

Or Boris's Herd Immunity might actually work and I might win an All Ireland with Down before I'm 60.

It may work, it may not. Time will tell. They have a strategy they think will minimise the impact. Do you have a strategy or plan for winning that 6th one.

Define work. Is say 50k dead old people and an immune remaining population to be defined as a good outcome?
You basing your figures on a crystal ball? I'd have more faith in world leading scientists than the Shinners, Facebookers and Tweeters. We'll all know the outcome in about 6 months. If it "works" the likes of you will say the numbers were suppressed and it it's fake news and if it doesn't then the Brits will be in the shit but Boris will still have a few years to go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 15, 2020, 12:00:03 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 11:23:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 14, 2020, 11:05:13 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.

Fair play to O'Dowd.  Language was strong but hopefully it focuses the minds.

Schools should just uni-laterally close.
I understand and largely agree about closing schools but it needs to be appreciated how big a step it is and a number of ducks need put in a row first. They will close soon but it appears that it will last for a number of months. There are GCSE & A Levels to be addressed. These things determine university places etc. There will be some shitstorm to come when "our Ciara should've got into her course but they made a balls of it..." etc. Inquiry after inquiry and at the end of the day the gov will get it in the neck.
Now, is this more important than people's lives? No. Are they guessing how much time they can buy to allow them to have a look at solutions to problems such as above? Probably.

A levels classes could be excluded to some extent. Half the class coming in each day, or have a class in an assembly hall  or big space where  they can spread out a bit.  It isn' t quite  black and white.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 15, 2020, 01:54:33 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 15, 2020, 12:09:48 AM
It's not black & white by any stretch. You have suggested ideas off the cuff (like your Casement plans) and I'm not saying they're wrong but they are debatable and may not be the best approach. GCSEs need factored in too. I would hope the gov are nailing down a contingency plan.

I don't run a school nor am I responsible for Casement, I am a poster on a discussion board and so my ideas are off the cuff, someone with all the details can identify the best solution. This isn't ideal for anyone, we just have to make limit the damage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on March 15, 2020, 03:40:48 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Whatever about what Michelle O'Neill did yesterday John O'Dowd has blown it out of the water. . . what in God's name is he hoping to achieve with a statement like that when we need politicians working together??

So badly advised I mean even the wording of the statement jesus!

I actually thought it was a parody account when I saw the tweet

Why? Do you disagree with what he said?  Spelling aside, I think he hit the nail on the head.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on March 15, 2020, 09:31:36 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 11:23:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 14, 2020, 11:05:13 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.

Fair play to O'Dowd.  Language was strong but hopefully it focuses the minds.

Schools should just uni-laterally close.
I understand and largely agree about closing schools but it needs to be appreciated how big a step it is and a number of ducks need put in a row first. They will close soon but it appears that it will last for a number of months. There are GCSE & A Levels to be addressed. These things determine university places etc. There will be some shitstorm to come when "our Ciara should've got into her course but they made a balls of it..." etc. Inquiry after inquiry and at the end of the day the gov will get it in the neck.
Now, is this more important than people's lives? No. Are they guessing how much time they can buy to allow them to have a look at solutions to problems such as above? Probably.

They'll go on predicted grades I say.

This will not, by all accounts, be over in a few weeks. In a few weeks, it'll be Easter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AFM on March 15, 2020, 09:39:49 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 15, 2020, 09:31:36 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 11:23:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 14, 2020, 11:05:13 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.

Fair play to O'Dowd.  Language was strong but hopefully it focuses the minds.

Schools should just uni-laterally close.
I understand and largely agree about closing schools but it needs to be appreciated how big a step it is and a number of ducks need put in a row first. They will close soon but it appears that it will last for a number of months. There are GCSE & A Levels to be addressed. These things determine university places etc. There will be some shitstorm to come when "our Ciara should've got into her course but they made a balls of it..." etc. Inquiry after inquiry and at the end of the day the gov will get it in the neck.
Now, is this more important than people's lives? No. Are they guessing how much time they can buy to allow them to have a look at solutions to problems such as above? Probably.

They'll go on predicted grades I say.

This will not, by all accounts, be over in a few weeks. In a few weeks, it'll be Easter.

They wont go on predictive grades, there is only about 4 weeks teaching left for GCSE students, Google classroom self study, exams in large hall well spread out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardtole on March 15, 2020, 09:41:05 AM
I think the problems surrounding gcses and a levels will turn out to insignificant in the greater schemes of things. And I say that as a parent who has a child doing their leaving cert this June.

Again I hope I am overreacting but I think it's much safer to err on the side of caution than face the terror of a possible worst case scenario.

Worst comes to the worst the kids can go to university a year later, their grandparents might see them graduate, keep following Boris's approach (225 uk scientists writing to him today concerned about his interpretation of medical advice) and a lot of their grandparents may not see Christmas.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 09:52:54 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 11:59:49 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:49:15 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/

Could be/within the next 20 days. They could also be dead within the next 20 days.

Or Boris's Herd Immunity might actually work and I might win an All Ireland with Down before I'm 60.

It may work, it may not. Time will tell. They have a strategy they think will minimise the impact. Do you have a strategy or plan for winning that 6th one.

Define work. Is say 50k dead old people and an immune remaining population to be defined as a good outcome?
You basing your figures on a crystal ball? I'd have more faith in world leading scientists than the Shinners, Facebookers and Tweeters. We'll all know the outcome in about 6 months. If it "works" the likes of you will say the numbers were suppressed and it it's fake news and if it doesn't then the Brits will be in the shit but Boris will still have a few years to go.

You dont need scientists to read my question above. I'll ask again define "if it works", how many dead people in the UK = success for you and these great scientists that Boris has (and evidently no one else in the world has). Nothing to do with Sinn Fein/Dup, Catholic/Protestant, Unionist/Nationalist. The scientists will tell you the virus doesnt care about your politics.

Here are some factual numbers

12m people over 65 in the UK
Lets assume 50% of them get this virus (that is the estimate I've seen from experts if you do nothing) but it seems estimates on this vary hugely as experts are not sure. However, I havent seen or read anyone quote a very low number.
Mortality rate is 0.8% in countries when you can treat people it has risen to 6% when the health service crashes to overloading. The WHO estimate it at 3.4% overall. But for the craic lets use the lower number.

So 12m people x 50% x 0.08 = 480,000
Or 12m people x 10% x 0.08 = 96,000

All big numbers - Is that success?

The plan in the rest of the world is to get the 50% way down by social distancing , closing schools etc. To stretch this out so that hospitals can cope and mortality rates are at 0.8% and not at 6%. To hold out until there is a vaccine and we stop 50% of the world catching it.

The UK is the only country with the "herd immunity" approach - unproven and not supported by the WHO.


Mortality Rate - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/how-many-will-die-of-coronavirus-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers

Amount of people infected - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-expert-opinions/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
I don't know if it's right or wrong. Neither do you. Nobody does. We'll know in a year when we've gone through another winter. What I do know is that I'd follow the advice of leading scientists, before that of a load of arseholes writing under a story on Facebook, that this is a medical experiment. The oul ones are mostly Tory voters so there is no way Boris is knocking them off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardtole on March 15, 2020, 11:27:03 AM
What would worry me about the uk approach so far, is turn on sky sports news, how many professional football teams in the last 2 or 3 days have had members of staff testing positive for covid 19?

I'd imagine these clubs have the medical  resources to regularly test and check all their staff. So far to me a disproportionate amount of athletes seem to have tested positive compared to the whole population.

We are also told the virus can lie undetected for a couple of weeks also, so if more testing across the uk was carried out, I'd imagine we would see a lot more cases.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
I don't know if it's right or wrong. Neither do you. Nobody does. We'll know in a year when we've gone through another winter. What I do know is that I'd follow the advice of leading scientists, before that of a load of arseholes writing under a story on Facebook, that this is a medical experiment. The oul ones are mostly Tory voters so there is no way Boris is knocking them off.

You accept that uk is only country following this "herd immunity" approach though? So from that we can extrapolate the brits think they have better scientists than anywhere else in the world. So they either do or they don't.  I think they are arrogant and this is part of he "we are free from the EU so can do our own thing" mentality. I fear it will be catastrophic and the north should follow the EU approach.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 15, 2020, 12:42:23 PM
Boris us not making the catastrophic decisions in NI, the DUP are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 15, 2020, 01:15:15 PM
Why aren't the 4 other Parties over ruling them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on March 15, 2020, 02:30:25 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 15, 2020, 03:40:48 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Whatever about what Michelle O'Neill did yesterday John O'Dowd has blown it out of the water. . . what in God's name is he hoping to achieve with a statement like that when we need politicians working together??

So badly advised I mean even the wording of the statement jesus!

I actually thought it was a parody account when I saw the tweet

Why? Do you disagree with what he said?  Spelling aside, I think he hit the nail on the head.

1. His choice of language was atrocious
2. Sinn Fein are part of Government surely there are other avenues he can go through to make his point
3. We don't need politicians engaging in hyperbole, panicking people, falling out when we need to stick together
4. He should know better!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on March 15, 2020, 02:37:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2020, 02:30:25 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 15, 2020, 03:40:48 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Whatever about what Michelle O'Neill did yesterday John O'Dowd has blown it out of the water. . . what in God's name is he hoping to achieve with a statement like that when we need politicians working together??

So badly advised I mean even the wording of the statement jesus!

I actually thought it was a parody account when I saw the tweet

Why? Do you disagree with what he said?  Spelling aside, I think he hit the nail on the head.

1. His choice of language was atrocious
2. Sinn Fein are part of Government surely there are other avenues he can go through to make his point
3. We don't need politicians engaging in hyperbole, panicking people, falling out when we need to stick together
4. He should know better!!

Fair play to him!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 03:30:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 15, 2020, 02:37:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2020, 02:30:25 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 15, 2020, 03:40:48 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Whatever about what Michelle O'Neill did yesterday John O'Dowd has blown it out of the water. . . what in God's name is he hoping to achieve with a statement like that when we need politicians working together??

So badly advised I mean even the wording of the statement jesus!

I actually thought it was a parody account when I saw the tweet

Why? Do you disagree with what he said?  Spelling aside, I think he hit the nail on the head.

1. His choice of language was atrocious
2. Sinn Fein are part of Government surely there are other avenues he can go through to make his point
3. We don't need politicians engaging in hyperbole, panicking people, falling out when we need to stick together
4. He should know better!!

Fair play to him!
. In what sense?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 03:31:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
I don't know if it's right or wrong. Neither do you. Nobody does. We'll know in a year when we've gone through another winter. What I do know is that I'd follow the advice of leading scientists, before that of a load of arseholes writing under a story on Facebook, that this is a medical experiment. The oul ones are mostly Tory voters so there is no way Boris is knocking them off.

You accept that uk is only country following this "herd immunity" approach though? So from that we can extrapolate the brits think they have better scientists than anywhere else in the world. So they either do or they don't.  I think they are arrogant and this is part of he "we are free from the EU so can do our own thing" mentality. I fear it will be catastrophic and the north should follow the EU approach.

What is the EU approach?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 03:33:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 15, 2020, 12:42:23 PM
Boris us not making the catastrophic decisions in NI, the DUP are.

What are you basing this on? What is the correct approach and why?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 03:31:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
I don't know if it's right or wrong. Neither do you. Nobody does. We'll know in a year when we've gone through another winter. What I do know is that I'd follow the advice of leading scientists, before that of a load of arseholes writing under a story on Facebook, that this is a medical experiment. The oul ones are mostly Tory voters so there is no way Boris is knocking them off.

You accept that uk is only country following this "herd immunity" approach though? So from that we can extrapolate the brits think they have better scientists than anywhere else in the world. So they either do or they don't.  I think they are arrogant and this is part of he "we are free from the EU so can do our own thing" mentality. I fear it will be catastrophic and the north should follow the EU approach.

What is the EU approach?

Ate you living in a cave ffs. Google it. The EU are doing what the WHO recommend we do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 03:31:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
I don't know if it's right or wrong. Neither do you. Nobody does. We'll know in a year when we've gone through another winter. What I do know is that I'd follow the advice of leading scientists, before that of a load of arseholes writing under a story on Facebook, that this is a medical experiment. The oul ones are mostly Tory voters so there is no way Boris is knocking them off.

You accept that uk is only country following this "herd immunity" approach though? So from that we can extrapolate the brits think they have better scientists than anywhere else in the world. So they either do or they don't.  I think they are arrogant and this is part of he "we are free from the EU so can do our own thing" mentality. I fear it will be catastrophic and the north should follow the EU approach.

What is the EU approach?

Ate you living in a cave ffs. Google it. The EU are doing what the WHO recommend we do.

But the EU response is to support individual member states in whatever steps the want to take and where they can benefit from cooperation to aid that cooperation. Health and public health are devolved matters. The is a wide and evolving range of responses in EU states.

So not in a cave. Googled it as you said and stand by my original question
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 06:20:49 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 03:31:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
I don't know if it's right or wrong. Neither do you. Nobody does. We'll know in a year when we've gone through another winter. What I do know is that I'd follow the advice of leading scientists, before that of a load of arseholes writing under a story on Facebook, that this is a medical experiment. The oul ones are mostly Tory voters so there is no way Boris is knocking them off.

You accept that uk is only country following this "herd immunity" approach though? So from that we can extrapolate the brits think they have better scientists than anywhere else in the world. So they either do or they don't.  I think they are arrogant and this is part of he "we are free from the EU so can do our own thing" mentality. I fear it will be catastrophic and the north should follow the EU approach.

What is the EU approach?

Ate you living in a cave ffs. Google it. The EU are doing what the WHO recommend we do.

But the EU response is to support individual member states in whatever steps the want to take and where they can benefit from cooperation to aid that cooperation. Health and public health are devolved matters. The is a wide and evolving range of responses in EU states.

So not in a cave. Googled it as you said and stand by my original question

What countries in the EU are going a different route to the WHO?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Denn Forever on March 16, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
John O'Dowd has really got Nolan's fired up on behalf of the people of Ulster.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 11:46:17 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 16, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
John O'Dowd has really got Nolan's fired up on behalf of the people of Ulster.

In fairness he handed it to Nolan on a plate. In a morning that should have also been reflecting on the RHI report he created a massive distraction. People need to be very careful of their language as they know especially in this place it'll be twisted into something else when if there was an element of truth to what he said. Nolan then has it then twisted to he is calling every medical professional out there a baxtard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 11:52:25 AM
See Michelle G just called someone a dick on Twitter - now no doubt he is/was but this is just deflecting from the issues at hand and rather than everyone rounding on the politicians sitting on their hands it is creating a green/orange situation with the orange side now calling out SF politicians rather than hammering the politicians who are leaving us like sitting ducks
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armamike on March 16, 2020, 12:24:21 PM
Michelle O'Neill was badly wrong in deciding on going on a solo run a few hours after standing with Foster and smacks of political opportunism. John O'Dowd was out of order in what he said. We need so called leaders to show a level head and a degree of calm here and act as if they can (at least publicly) work together to lead us through this. Going off on solos or ranting on social media isn't good.  People need leadership more now than ever.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 16, 2020, 12:24:21 PM
Michelle O'Neill was badly wrong in deciding on going on a solo run a few hours after standing with Foster and smacks of political opportunism. John O'Dowd was out of order in what he said. We need so called leaders to show a level head and a degree of calm here and act as if they can (at least publicly) work together to lead us through this. Going off on solos or ranting on social media isn't good.  People need leadership more now than ever.

I tell you what is wrong, people is that silly little statelet getting annoyed over a word and talking about leadership framed around a word when the biggest danger in their life time is knocking on their door. Michelle O Neill was wrong alright, she was wrong to stand with Foster in the 1st place and agree anything. She is right now. You are committing suicide north of the border.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on March 16, 2020, 01:19:29 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 16, 2020, 12:24:21 PM
Michelle O'Neill was badly wrong in deciding on going on a solo run a few hours after standing with Foster and smacks of political opportunism. John O'Dowd was out of order in what he said. We need so called leaders to show a level head and a degree of calm here and act as if they can (at least publicly) work together to lead us through this. Going off on solos or ranting on social media isn't good.  People need leadership more now than ever.  Vote SDLP.

Fixed that for ye.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 01:28:15 PM
Odd as it is to find me defending SF, Michelle O'Neill was put in an invidious position by Foster. SF were trying to make a go of collective action in NI administration and the DUP banjaxed this once again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on March 16, 2020, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 16, 2020, 12:24:21 PM
Michelle O'Neill was badly wrong in deciding on going on a solo run a few hours after standing with Foster and smacks of political opportunism. John O'Dowd was out of order in what he said. We need so called leaders to show a level head and a degree of calm here and act as if they can (at least publicly) work together to lead us through this. Going off on solos or ranting on social media isn't good.  People need leadership more now than ever.

No, this is completely wrong. Michelle O'Neill was completely wrong to side with Arlene Foster and the UK government stance in the first instance. She was not wrong to reverse her position even if it took her 24 hours to do it and even if it took others to put her right.

This is far too serious for party politicking, Stormont harmony is completely academic when it comes to the biggest health crisis in a century and peoples lives. Should she have continued to adapt the British government position despite the bewilderment of numerous world health experts?   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 16, 2020, 02:00:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 06:20:49 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 03:31:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
I don't know if it's right or wrong. Neither do you. Nobody does. We'll know in a year when we've gone through another winter. What I do know is that I'd follow the advice of leading scientists, before that of a load of arseholes writing under a story on Facebook, that this is a medical experiment. The oul ones are mostly Tory voters so there is no way Boris is knocking them off.

You accept that uk is only country following this "herd immunity" approach though? So from that we can extrapolate the brits think they have better scientists than anywhere else in the world. So they either do or they don't.  I think they are arrogant and this is part of he "we are free from the EU so can do our own thing" mentality. I fear it will be catastrophic and the north should follow the EU approach.

What is the EU approach?

Ate you living in a cave ffs. Google it. The EU are doing what the WHO recommend we do.

But the EU response is to support individual member states in whatever steps the want to take and where they can benefit from cooperation to aid that cooperation. Health and public health are devolved matters. The is a wide and evolving range of responses in EU states.

So not in a cave. Googled it as you said and stand by my original question

What countries in the EU are going a different route to the WHO?

Sweden. The ballbags.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 02:05:44 PM
Now this is a mature tweet from a Shinner

https://twitter.com/ChrisHazzardSF/status/1239481667263303682
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 03:19:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
I don't know if it's right or wrong. Neither do you. Nobody does. We'll know in a year when we've gone through another winter. What I do know is that I'd follow the advice of leading scientists, before that of a load of arseholes writing under a story on Facebook, that this is a medical experiment.


Run a few numbers yourself rather than rolling over and accepting what your told like a f**king 3 year old.


Death rate in Italy is over 7% when using number of cases. It is over 43% when using number of recoveries. (fuckin hell! That is grim :-\)


Bozo and the clowns are talking about infecting 60+% of the population. 7% of 60% of 60 million is over 2.5 million people.

I don't need my f**king phd to figure that out.


[edit: Sorry, this was a bit harsh - getting very irritated at people just accepting the "expert" opinion from London as if its beyond reproach. Its deeply flawed.]
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armamike on March 16, 2020, 03:22:54 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 16, 2020, 12:24:21 PM
Michelle O'Neill was badly wrong in deciding on going on a solo run a few hours after standing with Foster and smacks of political opportunism. John O'Dowd was out of order in what he said. We need so called leaders to show a level head and a degree of calm here and act as if they can (at least publicly) work together to lead us through this. Going off on solos or ranting on social media isn't good.  People need leadership more now than ever.

I tell you what is wrong, people is that silly little statelet getting annoyed over a word and talking about leadership framed around a word when the biggest danger in their life time is knocking on their door. Michelle O Neill was wrong alright, she was wrong to stand with Foster in the 1st place and agree anything. She is right now. You are committing suicide north of the border.

I'm not saying that the current position here is right.  Squabbling in public about what to do doesn't help the situation. Unfortunately like a lot of places (including some of the biggest economies on the planet) we've got terrible leadership when we need it most.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 16, 2020, 03:30:09 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 16, 2020, 03:22:54 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 16, 2020, 12:24:21 PM
Michelle O'Neill was badly wrong in deciding on going on a solo run a few hours after standing with Foster and smacks of political opportunism. John O'Dowd was out of order in what he said. We need so called leaders to show a level head and a degree of calm here and act as if they can (at least publicly) work together to lead us through this. Going off on solos or ranting on social media isn't good.  People need leadership more now than ever.

I tell you what is wrong, people is that silly little statelet getting annoyed over a word and talking about leadership framed around a word when the biggest danger in their life time is knocking on their door. Michelle O Neill was wrong alright, she was wrong to stand with Foster in the 1st place and agree anything. She is right now. You are committing suicide north of the border.

I'm not saying that the current position here is right.  Squabbling in public about what to do doesn't help the situation. Unfortunately like a lot of places (including some of the biggest economies on the planet) we've got terrible leadership when we need it most.

Staying silent when terrible leadership and inaction a global crisis will actually exasperate the problem, never mind not helping it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 03:31:23 PM
Where is Boris? No sign of him in days. Self isolating?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 03:46:52 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 03:31:23 PM
Where is Boris? No sign of him in days. Self isolating?

Hopefully the useless **** is on his death bed.

Not often I would say that, but between him and Trump, if both them were dead by the end of the week an awful lot of lives might be saved.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armamike on March 16, 2020, 04:06:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 03:31:23 PM
Where is Boris? No sign of him in days. Self isolating?

Indeed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 04:18:16 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:49:15 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/

Could be/within the next 20 days. They could also be dead within the next 20 days.

Or Boris's Herd Immunity might actually work and I might win an All Ireland with Down before I'm 60.

It may work, it may not. Time will tell. They have a strategy they think will minimise the impact. Do you have a strategy or plan for winning that 6th one.

Define work. Is say 50k dead old people and an immune remaining population to be defined as a good outcome?
50k out of a population of 65m?
I would say 0 deaths is a good outcome. What number of deaths do you count a success?

I am not an expert so I don't know which strategy will minimise deaths, the UK going for a manageable infection rate and hoping the NHS is not overwhelmed. The alternative , a lockdown to minimise infections now and hope to find a cure or vaccine before a second outbreak after the lockdown ends (or a second lockdown).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 04:22:46 PM
Has anyone the link to Brolly on Talkback this morning?

Cant seem to find it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dabh on March 16, 2020, 04:27:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 04:22:46 PM
Has anyone the link to Brolly on Talkback this morning?

Cant seem to find it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gdhq
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 04:42:25 PM
Quote from: Dabh on March 16, 2020, 04:27:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 04:22:46 PM
Has anyone the link to Brolly on Talkback this morning?

Cant seem to find it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gdhq

Cheers Dabh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 05:07:58 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 04:18:16 PM
I am not an expert so I don't know which strategy will minimise deaths, the UK going for a manageable infection rate and hoping the NHS is not overwhelmed.

Sorry, please stop this narrative from spreading - it is giving the impression of competence at the top.

Because Boris et al are talking about a manageable infection rate, doesn't mean they are actually taking action to cause that manageable infection rate.

Already, it is too late. In 2 weeks, the NHS will be completely overwhelmed because they have not taken action now.  They probably needed to act at the very latest this time last week.

You can see articles today where they are talking about instructions for over 70s isolating being imparted in a couple of weeks - in two weeks that point I conservatively reckon virus will already be in somewhere like half a million people - and thats going by semi-official numbers which are stinted by the reduced testing; chances are its 10 times that.

But, being optimistic in 2 weeks, best case scenario is 50,000 cases, 10,000 of which need acute care. I believe there are ~5,000 ventilators in the UK. 2 weeks to find an additional 5,000 ventilators? Aye, no bother.

Worst case scenario is in 2 weeks there are 5,000,000 cases - of which ~100,000 need acute care. I'm sure I don't have to explain the impossibility of finding 95,000 additional ventilators do I?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 10:35:01 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 04:18:16 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:49:15 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 14, 2020, 10:23:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of O'Dowd or Sinn Fein in general, but it's hard to disagree with what he is saying. The British government seem to be content to have what will amount to a cull of the elderly and the sick. For all their faults, Leo and Co. are trying to save lives here in the south.
We need a joint approach on this Island, but unionists in the north just cannot see the bigger picture.


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/

Could be/within the next 20 days. They could also be dead within the next 20 days.

Or Boris's Herd Immunity might actually work and I might win an All Ireland with Down before I'm 60.

It may work, it may not. Time will tell. They have a strategy they think will minimise the impact. Do you have a strategy or plan for winning that 6th one.

Define work. Is say 50k dead old people and an immune remaining population to be defined as a good outcome?
50k out of a population of 65m?
I would say 0 deaths is a good outcome. What number of deaths do you count a success?

I am not an expert so I don't know which strategy will minimise deaths, the UK going for a manageable infection rate and hoping the NHS is not overwhelmed. The alternative , a lockdown to minimise infections now and hope to find a cure or vaccine before a second outbreak after the lockdown ends (or a second lockdown).
And it seems we have got our answer a lot quicker than expected. The model on which the UK government was basing its strategy was fundamentally unsound.

"The latest evidence suggests that 30 per cent of patients admitted to hospital with Covid-19 will need critical care in an intensive care unit, he said. Previous estimates, based on experience with viral pneumonia, were too low."

https://amp.ft.com/content/249daf9a-67c3-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 16, 2020, 11:21:57 PM
Lads f**k a-levels, f**k gcse's f**k Paddys day and all the rest. Need to cop on and get schools closed. Education will still be there in a year when this virus is gone. Every major sporting event in the world is off and pubs are closed on the busiest few days of the year, costing billions.

There's plenty more money in the world, theres plenty of time for studying and there's plenty of time for sport. None of it matters without your health and if stopping everything is what it takes to save lives then thats what needs to happen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 11:33:55 PM
Boris Johnson and his government have etched their names in history as the most incompetent most clueless and most reckless government of them all. People in the 6 counties, you need to follow the advise of the WHO and the irish government NOW.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on March 16, 2020, 11:48:36 PM
UK government have fecked this up massively, and unfortunately we will see the outcome in the coming couple of weeks.  Arlene and the other Boris cheerleaders ... hang your heads in shame. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 12:49:41 AM
They've started testing the first vaccine in the US. Perhaps we'll have a  Paddy's day next year.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardtole on March 17, 2020, 07:30:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 16, 2020, 11:21:57 PM
Lads f**k a-levels, f**k gcse's f**k Paddys day and all the rest. Need to cop on and get schools closed. Education will still be there in a year when this virus is gone. Every major sporting event in the world is off and pubs are closed on the busiest few days of the year, costing billions.

There's plenty more money in the world, theres plenty of time for studying and there's plenty of time for sport. None of it matters without your health and if stopping everything is what it takes to save lives then thats what needs to happen.
My sentiments exactly, Arlene, Steve Aiken and Naomi Long have backed the wrong horse. I'm living in the south but I'm from the north and the contrast in reaction of the respective governments is stark. I'm genuinely worried how this is going to pan out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 17, 2020, 08:15:26 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 11:33:55 PM
Boris Johnson and his government have etched their names in history as the most incompetent most clueless and most reckless government of them all. People in the 6 counties, you need to follow the advise of the WHO and the irish government NOW.

Eugenics at work.

Pension crisis averted.

Less burden on the NHS due to the decimation of the elderly.

Venture Capitalists will be rubbing their hands with glee.

Insurance firms getting off the hook yesterday by Boris's wishy washy don't go to bars, pubs, restaurants but we're not forcing them to close pish.

Not even a temporary improvement in benefits for those now facing job losses.

Cold hearted bastárds.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on March 17, 2020, 08:56:39 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 17, 2020, 07:30:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 16, 2020, 11:21:57 PM
Lads f**k a-levels, f**k gcse's f**k Paddys day and all the rest. Need to cop on and get schools closed. Education will still be there in a year when this virus is gone. Every major sporting event in the world is off and pubs are closed on the busiest few days of the year, costing billions.

There's plenty more money in the world, theres plenty of time for studying and there's plenty of time for sport. None of it matters without your health and if stopping everything is what it takes to save lives then thats what needs to happen.
My sentiments exactly, Arlene, Steve Aiken and Naomi Long have backed the wrong horse. I'm living in the south but I'm from the north and the contrast in reaction of the respective governments is stark. I'm genuinely worried how this is going to pan out.

This is a clear reason why Ireland should be re-united.  In terms of an All Ireland approach to this virus and also the health service.

Brexit and now this - planning required asap.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 17, 2020, 08:15:26 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 11:33:55 PM
Boris Johnson and his government have etched their names in history as the most incompetent most clueless and most reckless government of them all. People in the 6 counties, you need to follow the advise of the WHO and the irish government NOW.

Eugenics at work.

Pension crisis averted.

Less burden on the NHS due to the decimation of the elderly.



Six months ago they were telling us that the British elderly were to blame for Boris' Brexit. Now he's murdering them apparently.  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LeoMc on March 17, 2020, 10:59:41 AM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 17, 2020, 08:15:26 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 11:33:55 PM
Boris Johnson and his government have etched their names in history as the most incompetent most clueless and most reckless government of them all. People in the 6 counties, you need to follow the advise of the WHO and the irish government NOW.

Eugenics at work.

Pension crisis averted.

Less burden on the NHS due to the decimation of the elderly.



Six months ago they were telling us that the British elderly were to blame for Boris' Brexit. Now he's murdering them apparently.  ::)
Eliminating his accomplices! Just like any text book villain.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 11:28:31 AM
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 08:49:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/molloy1916/status/1240345559401144325
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on March 19, 2020, 12:18:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 08:49:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/molloy1916/status/1240345559401144325

https://villagemagazine.ie/murder-for-mountbatten/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on March 19, 2020, 11:07:10 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on March 19, 2020, 12:18:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 08:49:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/molloy1916/status/1240345559401144325

https://villagemagazine.ie/murder-for-mountbatten/

Village magazine should not be believed in relation to any allegations of historic child sexual abuse. They gave huge and uncritical coverage to the totally unfounded allegations of the paedophile and fantasist Carl Beech.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2020, 01:52:59 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on March 19, 2020, 12:18:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 08:49:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/molloy1916/status/1240345559401144325

https://villagemagazine.ie/murder-for-mountbatten/

Joke mag
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on March 20, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: five points on March 19, 2020, 11:07:10 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on March 19, 2020, 12:18:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 08:49:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/molloy1916/status/1240345559401144325

https://villagemagazine.ie/murder-for-mountbatten/

Village magazine should not be believed in relation to any allegations of historic child sexual abuse. They gave huge and uncritical coverage to the totally unfounded allegations of the paedophile and fantasist Carl Beech.
And does 'kill the messenger' approach apply to other media outlets who publish similar charges against Mountbatten, a man of low and perverse moral values acccording to the FBI?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: rodney trotter on March 26, 2020, 08:40:26 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 14, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Yes none of us know whether the approach adopted by almost every country in Europe and China is right versus the approach taken by one country with an idiot in charge which is based on loads of old people dieing and the rest of the population catching it and magically developing immunity.
The UK actually do have quite a clear strategic plan tho. What is the ROI plan? Lockdown with 1/5th of the island on a different page and then what?Ireland as an island will suffer very badly from the disjointed approach, there will be repeated flare ups.

UK had a plan which they had to change because it was going to cost many lives. Do you still think the clear strageic plan the UK had was right?
They decided to take action about 2 weeks after everyone else.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on March 28, 2020, 05:12:45 PM
Michelle O'Neill is fairly f**king stupid!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2020, 05:43:39 PM
Any particular reasons?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2020, 11:47:42 PM
Michelle O'Neill all over the shop.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

Shinnerbots
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2020, 11:04:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

Shinnerbots

SF ran an open campaign a few years ago to recruit ppl with an online presence. They're centrally controlled into groups then instructed on what to tweet / say.
I've been a target loads of times. Patrice Hardy unleashed a rather vicious attack one time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2020, 11:05:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 11:04:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

Shinnerbots

SF ran an open campaign a few years ago to recruit ppl with an online presence. They're centrally controlled into groups then instructed on what to tweet / say.
I've been a target loads of times. Patrice Hardy unleashed a rather vicious attack one time.

Chris Donnelly is an example of one such shinnerbot with some respectability cover.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 04, 2020, 12:18:05 PM
How many times a day do you think about Sinn Fein?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 04, 2020, 12:59:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 11:05:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 11:04:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

Shinnerbots

SF ran an open campaign a few years ago to recruit ppl with an online presence. They're centrally controlled into groups then instructed on what to tweet / say.
I've been a target loads of times. Patrice Hardy unleashed a rather vicious attack one time.

Chris Donnelly is an example of one such shinnerbot with some respectability cover.

Well he was member?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 04, 2020, 01:39:07 PM
Quote from: general_lee on April 04, 2020, 12:18:05 PM
How many times a day do you think about Sinn Fein?

It's important to cast light on their dark practices
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on April 04, 2020, 04:42:16 PM
Self praise is no recommendation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 04, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

All political parties be at this craic. SF just have an above average social media presence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 04, 2020, 06:51:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

All political parties be at this craic. SF just have an above average social media presence.

They actively recruited people to make a huge social media presence. Try disagreeing with one of them. Next thing they tweet you back tagging their army. It's really intimidating as I suppose it's meant to be. It's nothing like what other political parties or supporters do. SF bring it to a totally different level. And that's the difference.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 05, 2020, 07:45:43 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 04, 2020, 07:12:49 PM
"It's really intimidating".  ;D

Ffs, I was near tweeted to death today. Get a grip of yourself man.

When you receive a barrage of threatening responses it can be intimidating. But what can you expect it is their M.O.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 05, 2020, 07:46:25 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 04, 2020, 07:12:49 PM
"It's really intimidating".  ;D

Ffs, I was near tweeted to death today. Get a grip of yourself man.

Dismiss it all you like, but they target dissenting voices and shout them down
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 09:04:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 04, 2020, 06:51:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

All political parties be at this craic. SF just have an above average social media presence.

They actively recruited people to make a huge social media presence. Try disagreeing with one of them. Next thing they tweet you back tagging their army. It's really intimidating as I suppose it's meant to be. It's nothing like what other political parties or supporters do. SF bring it to a totally different level. And that's the difference.

Scandal as political party has a social media team on the books.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 05, 2020, 09:12:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 09:04:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 04, 2020, 06:51:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

All political parties be at this craic. SF just have an above average social media presence.

They actively recruited people to make a huge social media presence. Try disagreeing with one of them. Next thing they tweet you back tagging their army. It's really intimidating as I suppose it's meant to be. It's nothing like what other political parties or supporters do. SF bring it to a totally different level. And that's the difference.

Scandal as political party has a social media team on the books.

They're not "on the books". That's the problem. They're unaccountable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 05, 2020, 10:16:39 AM
The prime minister of the uk is unaccountable for anything that comes out of his mouth. That is how the world works these days :(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:50:03 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 05, 2020, 09:12:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 09:04:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 04, 2020, 06:51:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

All political parties be at this craic. SF just have an above average social media presence.

They actively recruited people to make a huge social media presence. Try disagreeing with one of them. Next thing they tweet you back tagging their army. It's really intimidating as I suppose it's meant to be. It's nothing like what other political parties or supporters do. SF bring it to a totally different level. And that's the difference.

Scandal as political party has a social media team on the books.

They're not "on the books". That's the problem. They're unaccountable.

How do you know whos on the books?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 05, 2020, 12:35:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 04, 2020, 06:51:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 03, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
I find it weird how much Sinn Fein congratulate each other on Twitter.  It's actually weird how much they do it.

All political parties be at this craic. SF just have an above average social media presence.

They actively recruited people to make a huge social media presence. Try disagreeing with one of them. Next thing they tweet you back tagging their army. It's really intimidating as I suppose it's meant to be. It's nothing like what other political parties or supporters do. SF bring it to a totally different level. And that's the difference.

Ffs, get a life.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 06, 2020, 09:13:36 AM
Was she not speaking at the weekend?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 06, 2020, 09:13:36 AM
Was she not speaking at the weekend?

Not sure, it is a genuine question
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 06, 2020, 09:57:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 06, 2020, 09:13:36 AM
Was she not speaking at the weekend?

Not sure, it is a genuine question

She wrote a piece in the Irish Times at the weekend saying she should Taoiseach even though SF can't form a government. Says FG and FF are using the Pandemic to keep them out of gov.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mary-lou-mcdonald-this-crisis-shows-that-sinn-f%C3%A9in-was-right-1.4220037 (https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mary-lou-mcdonald-this-crisis-shows-that-sinn-f%C3%A9in-was-right-1.4220037)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 11:17:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?
She couldn't attend the Dáil on Thursday because she was "feeling under the weather".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:51:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 11:17:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?
She couldn't attend the Dáil on Thursday because she was "feeling under the weather".

And if she went in to the Dail feeling under the weather you and others would criticise her for that too. Feel sick then stay at home is the unofficial motto of Covid Ireland in case you missed that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Never hear either of them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

What makes sense? I cant wait for your answer.

I am not a member , but did give Anne McCloskey my vote last time, hard working republican who is well respected up these parts.

Let me guess you are going to tell me I am

Facist(Biggest bullshit I have ever heard about the party-they are left leaning)
misogynist(also a bit odd when Aontú had the highest percentage of female candidates last elections)
or against free choice-I am not that either but do feel that the current arrangements around abortion could be scaled back a little, there are definitely times where it a necessary occurrence.






Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

FFS the party was only formed due to abortion issue. They don't stand for anything else you cant find in one of the other parties. I don't like my republicanism tinged with the catholic church.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 05:09:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

I'd say, and most people agree they are right wing - formed on one issue and that could be/is their problem.  They are cons, catholic and right wing.

This was the issue in the recent southern election.  The abortion issue wasn't really relevant to the southern electorate - that boat has sailed.

A Mc C is a fantastic candidate but got a very bad vote in Leitrim/Sligo.   Just standing for the sake of standing is not a tactic. They need to push past the Peadar 'I'm the Boss' Tobin.  Jim Allister is the same with the TUV.  Hume was the same with the SDLP.

In fairness, Tobin did really well to get elected in a 3 seater.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 07:26:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

FFS the party was only formed due to abortion issue. They don't stand for anything else you cant find in one of the other parties. I don't like my republicanism tinged with the catholic church.
I'd say most Protestant Churches and Islam are opposed to abortion too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

FFS the party was only formed due to abortion issue. They don't stand for anything else you cant find in one of the other parties. I don't like my republicanism tinged with the catholic church.

Tbh it was more thsn thst, if there had gave been a vote of conscience allowed, there would have been no split, I think that more thsn anything pissed people off
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 05:09:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

I'd say, and most people agree they are right wing - formed on one issue and that could be/is their problem.  They are cons, catholic and right wing.

This was the issue in the recent southern election.  The abortion issue wasn't really relevant to the southern electorate - that boat has sailed.

A Mc C is a fantastic candidate but got a very bad vote in Leitrim/Sligo.   Just standing for the sake of standing is not a tactic. They need to push past the Peadar 'I'm the Boss' Tobin.  Jim Allister is the same with the TUV.  Hume was the same with the SDLP.

In fairness, Tobin did really well to get elected in a 3 seater.

But as most opponents agree they are sf on everything except one issue. Surely if thst is true and they hold same economic stance etc they can't be right winged.

Yep Anne shouid never have gone down to sligo, she got good vote out here in Ballyarnett. She got elected
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

FFS the party was only formed due to abortion issue. They don't stand for anything else you cant find in one of the other parties. I don't like my republicanism tinged with the catholic church.

Tbh it was more thsn thst, if there had gave been a vote of conscience allowed, there would have been no split, I think that more thsn anything pissed people off

If you dont want to abide by party decisions don't join a party, go independent. Will Peadair not be imposing a whip in Aontu?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 10:01:22 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

FFS the party was only formed due to abortion issue. They don't stand for anything else you cant find in one of the other parties. I don't like my republicanism tinged with the catholic church.

Tbh it was more thsn thst, if there had gave been a vote of conscience allowed, there would have been no split, I think that more thsn anything pissed people off

If you dont want to abide by party decisions don't join a party, go independent. Will Peadair not be imposing a whip in Aontu?
[/quote

Newsflash, sf were the only party to apply the whip on this. Surely you knew that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 07, 2020, 09:35:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 10:01:22 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

FFS the party was only formed due to abortion issue. They don't stand for anything else you cant find in one of the other parties. I don't like my republicanism tinged with the catholic church.

Tbh it was more thsn thst, if there had gave been a vote of conscience allowed, there would have been no split, I think that more thsn anything pissed people off

If you dont want to abide by party decisions don't join a party, go independent. Will Peadair not be imposing a whip in Aontu?
[/quote

Newsflash, sf were the only party to apply the whip on this. Surely you knew that

Yes because they stand for something and they supported abortion in their manifesto. You can hardly say one thing as a party and then let your TDs do what they want. But sure maybe the FF an FG approach is better for you, say one thing do the other, sit on the fence and stand for nothing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 07, 2020, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 07, 2020, 09:35:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 10:01:22 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

FFS the party was only formed due to abortion issue. They don't stand for anything else you cant find in one of the other parties. I don't like my republicanism tinged with the catholic church.

Tbh it was more thsn thst, if there had gave been a vote of conscience allowed, there would have been no split, I think that more thsn anything pissed people off

If you dont want to abide by party decisions don't join a party, go independent. Will Peadair not be imposing a whip in Aontu?
[/quote

Newsflash, sf were the only party to apply the whip on this. Surely you knew that

Yes because they stand for something and they supported abortion in their manifesto. You can hardly say one thing as a party and then let your TDs do what they want. But sure maybe the FF an FG approach is better for you, say one thing do the other, sit on the fence and stand for nothing.

it is called vote of conscience for a reason. You do know that it would never have happened under Martin McGuinness' watch
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 10, 2020, 08:39:28 AM
Social distancing rules do not apply to funerals for SF councillors.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/psni-investigate-as-crowds-attend-funeral-of-former-sinn-f%C3%A9in-councillor-1.4225342 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/psni-investigate-as-crowds-attend-funeral-of-former-sinn-f%C3%A9in-councillor-1.4225342)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 09:20:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 07, 2020, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 07, 2020, 09:35:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 10:01:22 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
My views on SF are well known so my next question is genuine not a swipe. Has anyone heard anything from Mary Lou? Is she sick?

Funny you don't include Michael Martin or Peadar Tobin in that sentence.

?
Of course i didn't ,they have both been quite prevalent last few weeks on all media. Got my Easter Lily yesterday from Aontú. Ar son na saoirse.

Aontu, now it all makes sense.

Hard to see where Aontú are going. Peadar, a nice lad, got elected but the rest got wiped.  Bit right wing for my liking.

He needs to starting delegating the workload otherwise he'll be an ineffective Jim!!

I don't think thry are right winged tbh, Conservative on question of abortion, I do agree on the manpower point though.
Need to start at local level first and build, but it's a long long road

FFS the party was only formed due to abortion issue. They don't stand for anything else you cant find in one of the other parties. I don't like my republicanism tinged with the catholic church.

Tbh it was more thsn thst, if there had gave been a vote of conscience allowed, there would have been no split, I think that more thsn anything pissed people off

If you dont want to abide by party decisions don't join a party, go independent. Will Peadair not be imposing a whip in Aontu?
[/quote

Newsflash, sf were the only party to apply the whip on this. Surely you knew that

Yes because they stand for something and they supported abortion in their manifesto. You can hardly say one thing as a party and then let your TDs do what they want. But sure maybe the FF an FG approach is better for you, say one thing do the other, sit on the fence and stand for nothing.

it is called vote of conscience for a reason. You do know that it would never have happened under Martin McGuinness' watch

How do you know, can you make contact with the dead now too? Is that to do with Aontu's close links with God?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 09:22:26 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 08:39:28 AM
Social distancing rules do not apply to funerals for SF councillors.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/psni-investigate-as-crowds-attend-funeral-of-former-sinn-f%C3%A9in-councillor-1.4225342 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/psni-investigate-as-crowds-attend-funeral-of-former-sinn-f%C3%A9in-councillor-1.4225342)

Thats very poor and reckless behaviour. Have you evidence to suggest that this is only happening at the funerals of SF councillors?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 09:22:26 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 08:39:28 AM
Social distancing rules do not apply to funerals for SF councillors.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/psni-investigate-as-crowds-attend-funeral-of-former-sinn-f%C3%A9in-councillor-1.4225342 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/psni-investigate-as-crowds-attend-funeral-of-former-sinn-f%C3%A9in-councillor-1.4225342)

Thats very poor and reckless behaviour. Have you evidence to suggest that this is only happening at the funerals of SF councillors?

Second paragraph in;

Politicians including Sinn Féin Deputy First Minister Michelle O'Neill criticised how the funeral rules appeared to have been broken at the funeral of former Sinn Féin representative Francie McNally on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 10, 2020, 09:31:45 AM
He's obsessed
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)

That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)

That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.

And it is not a Sinn Fein thing, its a general thing. In my family we had a funeral a few weeks ago. We told everyone it was family only and we took it from there. If you leave it open to people to attend then you will lose control. People will feel they need to sympathise and will break the 2m rule and handshake rule.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 10, 2020, 10:41:57 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)

That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.

And it is not a Sinn Fein thing, its a general thing. In my family we had a funeral a few weeks ago. We told everyone it was family only and we took it from there. If you leave it open to people to attend then you will lose control. People will feel they need to sympathise and will break the 2m rule and handshake rule.

We had that at a funeral at the start of things. No one was really fully aware of it but as it turned out a woman who attended the wake ended up with it albeit mild. Was very hard on the family trying to deal
With the whole thing. There's going to be a huge mental health fallout from this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)

That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.

And it is not a Sinn Fein thing, its a general thing. In my family we had a funeral a few weeks ago. We told everyone it was family only and we took it from there. If you leave it open to people to attend then you will lose control. People will feel they need to sympathise and will break the 2m rule and handshake rule.

SF should be taking the lead on this. Setting a  They are the largest Nationalist Party. Yet they have repeatedly went their own road. Mo'N with her solo runs and now not following social distancing rules. Leadership. #Equality #Respect #Integrity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)

That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.

And it is not a Sinn Fein thing, its a general thing. In my family we had a funeral a few weeks ago. We told everyone it was family only and we took it from there. If you leave it open to people to attend then you will lose control. People will feel they need to sympathise and will break the 2m rule and handshake rule.

SF should be taking the lead on this. Setting a  They are the largest Nationalist Party. Yet they have repeatedly went their own road. Mo'N with her solo runs and now not following social distancing rules. Leadership. #Equality #Respect #Integrity.

So Sinn Fein should inform all their members on how they must hold a funeral and if they dont adhere they will be kicked out of the party, is that it? Of course that is a ridiculous thing to think. Funerals are private family calls, the law of the land is the rules you follow. All any group can do is advise everyone to follow the rules and guidelines
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:43:01 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)

That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.

And it is not a Sinn Fein thing, its a general thing. In my family we had a funeral a few weeks ago. We told everyone it was family only and we took it from there. If you leave it open to people to attend then you will lose control. People will feel they need to sympathise and will break the 2m rule and handshake rule.

SF should be taking the lead on this. Setting a  They are the largest Nationalist Party. Yet they have repeatedly went their own road. Mo'N with her solo runs and now not following social distancing rules. Leadership. #Equality #Respect #Integrity.

So Sinn Fein should inform all their members on how they must hold a funeral and if they dont adhere they will be kicked out of the party, is that it? Of course that is a ridiculous thing to think. Funerals are private family calls, the law of the land is the rules you follow. All any group can do is advise everyone to follow the rules and guidelines

You're right. We're all in this together but it's to much to ask SF to change their ways. I agree. They should, as is always the case, be the exception.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:43:01 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)

That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.

And it is not a Sinn Fein thing, its a general thing. In my family we had a funeral a few weeks ago. We told everyone it was family only and we took it from there. If you leave it open to people to attend then you will lose control. People will feel they need to sympathise and will break the 2m rule and handshake rule.

SF should be taking the lead on this. Setting a  They are the largest Nationalist Party. Yet they have repeatedly went their own road. Mo'N with her solo runs and now not following social distancing rules. Leadership. #Equality #Respect #Integrity.

So Sinn Fein should inform all their members on how they must hold a funeral and if they dont adhere they will be kicked out of the party, is that it? Of course that is a ridiculous thing to think. Funerals are private family calls, the law of the land is the rules you follow. All any group can do is advise everyone to follow the rules and guidelines

You're right. We're all in this together but it's to much to ask SF to change their ways. I agree. They should, as is always the case, be the exception.

People at a funeral are not "Sinn Fein", they are people at a funeral. There are probably lots of things that would be fair game to be critical of SF on but not this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 10, 2020, 01:10:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:43:01 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)

That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.

And it is not a Sinn Fein thing, its a general thing. In my family we had a funeral a few weeks ago. We told everyone it was family only and we took it from there. If you leave it open to people to attend then you will lose control. People will feel they need to sympathise and will break the 2m rule and handshake rule.

SF should be taking the lead on this. Setting a  They are the largest Nationalist Party. Yet they have repeatedly went their own road. Mo'N with her solo runs and now not following social distancing rules. Leadership. #Equality #Respect #Integrity.

So Sinn Fein should inform all their members on how they must hold a funeral and if they dont adhere they will be kicked out of the party, is that it? Of course that is a ridiculous thing to think. Funerals are private family calls, the law of the land is the rules you follow. All any group can do is advise everyone to follow the rules and guidelines

You're right. We're all in this together but it's to much to ask SF to change their ways. I agree. They should, as is always the case, be the exception.

People at a funeral are not "Sinn Fein", they are people at a funeral. There are probably lots of things that would be fair game to be critical of SF on but not this.

People at SF councillor's funeral are not SF people. Even the SF people. They are just people and definitely not SF people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 10, 2020, 01:14:10 PM
Loving the new SF agenda.

EQUALITY
Not for SF. They don't have to adhere to same social distancing rules as the rest of us
RESPECT
Not for SF. They don't respect the medical advice
INTEGRITY
Not for SF. Do as we say, not as we do

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 10, 2020, 01:25:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)
Do you think or research before you actually write? This man was a SF councillor in the 80's. SF did not organise the funeral. In fact Michelle O'Neill called it out. if you want to hold SF to account then make sure you are on solid ground based on fact otherwise we can just confirm you as a troll.
That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.

And it is not a Sinn Fein thing, its a general thing. In my family we had a funeral a few weeks ago. We told everyone it was family only and we took it from there. If you leave it open to people to attend then you will lose control. People will feel they need to sympathise and will break the 2m rule and handshake rule.

SF should be taking the lead on this. Setting a  They are the largest Nationalist Party. Yet they have repeatedly went their own road. Mo'N with her solo runs and now not following social distancing rules. Leadership. #Equality #Respect #Integrity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
Do 8 lads with white shirts, ties, sun glasses and black gloves usually just turn up at funerals in the North and just happen to walk in single file each side of the hearse?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JoG2 on April 10, 2020, 02:01:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
Do 8 lads with white shirts, ties, sun glasses and black gloves usually just turn up at funerals in the North and just happen to walk in single file each side of the hearse?

(https://ccfoodtravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Starsky.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 10, 2020, 02:19:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 01:14:10 PM
Loving the new SF agenda.

EQUALITY
Not for SF. They don't have to adhere to same social distancing rules as the rest of us
RESPECT
Not for SF. They don't respect the medical advice
INTEGRITY
Not for SF. Do as we say, not as we do

I sense another Trailer outrage episode coming on.  :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hardy on April 10, 2020, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
Do 8 lads with white shirts, ties, sun glasses and black gloves usually just turn up at funerals in the North and just happen to walk in single file each side of the hearse?

You got there before me. Funnily enough, they seem to be the only ones who might be marching - sorry, walking - two metres apart.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on April 10, 2020, 02:44:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 10, 2020, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
Do 8 lads with white shirts, ties, sun glasses and black gloves usually just turn up at funerals in the North and just happen to walk in single file each side of the hearse?

You got there before me. Funnily enough, they seem to be the only ones who might be marching - sorry, walking - two metres apart.

And they were wearing gloves as well, very responsible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: TyroneOnlooker on April 10, 2020, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: dec on April 10, 2020, 02:44:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 10, 2020, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
Do 8 lads with white shirts, ties, sun glasses and black gloves usually just turn up at funerals in the North and just happen to walk in single file each side of the hearse?

You got there before me. Funnily enough, they seem to be the only ones who might be marching - sorry, walking - two metres apart.

Criticism aimed at SF here a bit misplaced. This man was an ex-SF councillor. Some of those boys in white shirts wouldn't be big fans of SF. Not nowadays anyway.

And they were wearing gloves as well, very responsible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 03:28:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 01:10:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:43:01 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 10, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:21:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
He may be obsessed but its hard to justify no matter what side you are on.

Interestingly the priest said the rules were enforced inside the grounds so obviously the issue is on the way to the burial.

Its a f**king tough one - how do you stop people wanting to pay their respects (albeit this looks like it was organised rather than people just showing up)

That's it though, no one is trying to justify it, even Michelle O'Neill.

They were wrong to do it in so close a proximity to each other and has rightly been condemned across the board.

And it is not a Sinn Fein thing, its a general thing. In my family we had a funeral a few weeks ago. We told everyone it was family only and we took it from there. If you leave it open to people to attend then you will lose control. People will feel they need to sympathise and will break the 2m rule and handshake rule.

SF should be taking the lead on this. Setting a  They are the largest Nationalist Party. Yet they have repeatedly went their own road. Mo'N with her solo runs and now not following social distancing rules. Leadership. #Equality #Respect #Integrity.

So Sinn Fein should inform all their members on how they must hold a funeral and if they dont adhere they will be kicked out of the party, is that it? Of course that is a ridiculous thing to think. Funerals are private family calls, the law of the land is the rules you follow. All any group can do is advise everyone to follow the rules and guidelines

You're right. We're all in this together but it's to much to ask SF to change their ways. I agree. They should, as is always the case, be the exception.

People at a funeral are not "Sinn Fein", they are people at a funeral. There are probably lots of things that would be fair game to be critical of SF on but not this.

People at SF councillor's funeral are not SF people. Even the SF people. They are just people and definitely not SF people.

I went to a local FF councillors funeral last year, does that make me "FF". Does that mean FF are responsible for how I acted at the funeral. Should I expect the local FF TD to check that I am saying the Our Father correctly and that I was not a protestant or anything like that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 11, 2020, 01:44:32 PM
SF would rather people died from Coronavirus than accept help from the British Army. Integrity. Equality. Respect.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GJL on April 11, 2020, 01:58:19 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 11, 2020, 01:44:32 PM
SF would rather people died from Coronavirus than accept help from the British Army. Integrity. Equality. Respect.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T)

Did you even read that article?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 11, 2020, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 11, 2020, 01:44:32 PM
SF would rather people died from Coronavirus than accept help from the British Army. Integrity. Equality. Respect.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T)

You moved on from your failed attempt at blaming SF for people at a funeral??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on April 11, 2020, 04:47:46 PM
She's fucked this up bigtime... people want the Health Minister to act not have meetings about meetings around whether or not he should go ahead!!

Fighting this battle looks like petty sectarian politics at a time of crisis and isn't doing anybody any favours!!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 11, 2020, 07:45:29 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 11, 2020, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 11, 2020, 01:44:32 PM
SF would rather people died from Coronavirus than accept help from the British Army. Integrity. Equality. Respect.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T)

You moved on from your failed attempt at blaming SF for people at a funeral??

Feel free to jump in anytime I'm wrong.
Stay safe.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
On what?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
On what?

On bringing the British army back.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Silver hill on April 11, 2020, 08:34:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 11, 2020, 07:45:29 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 11, 2020, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 11, 2020, 01:44:32 PM
SF would rather people died from Coronavirus than accept help from the British Army. Integrity. Equality. Respect.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/michelle-o-neill-hits-out-as-robin-swann-requests-coronavirus-help-from-british-army-1899226/?param=ds441rif44T)

You moved on from your failed attempt at blaming SF for people at a funeral??

Feel free to jump in anytime I'm wrong.
Stay safe.

If you had taken the time to read the Irish times headline correctly, it stated 'former' Sinn Fein councillor. Francie has been estranged from Sinn Fein for some time. This funeral was taken over and directed from start to finish by members of the continuity movement.
Of course, it goes without saying that there should only have been immediate family at the funeral. Cheap shot to try to tarnish Sinn Finn. Wrong on this occasion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on April 11, 2020, 08:58:25 PM
If Michelle o'Neill quit tomorrow, who would be replacing her as leader, as in the heir apparent? Apart from Murphy there appears to be a shocking dearth of talent- and MON is just awful imo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 09:03:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
On what?

On bringing the British army back.

I wasn't referring to that, I was touching on Michelle's increasing habit of going public without seemingly consultation with partners in government.

I'd imagine Aontú would be very similar to SF on the position of the British army normally. But I'd also hazard a guess that atm it would not be high on the agenda
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 10:11:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 09:03:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
On what?

On bringing the British army back.

I wasn't referring to that, I was touching on Michelle's increasing habit of going public without seemingly consultation with partners in government.

I'd imagine Aontú would be very similar to SF on the position of the British army normally. But I'd also hazard a guess that atm it would not be high on the agenda

Isn't it ironic that Swan went on a solo run with this...yet nobody on complaining?

As the Freight and Transport are saying - loads of unemployed logistics people, lorries and lorry drivers about but they were'nt asked or thought about.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: angermanagement on April 11, 2020, 10:44:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
On what?

On bringing the British army back.

The British army haven't left, there's still a few thousand based in Lisburn and Holywood. If needs must put the orange and green to one side.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 11:25:32 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on April 11, 2020, 10:44:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
On what?

On bringing the British army back.

The British army haven't left, there's still a few thousand based in Lisburn and Holywood. If needs must put the orange and green to one side.

Manufacturing ni have tweeted the same re: loads of unemployed people and lorries etc. about.  Seems the SDLP and the rest welcome the British army as Swann goes on a solo run.  In fainess, PBP questioning it also but D. Kelly and the SDLP can't wait to get them back.

It's ironic people are giving out about O'Neill going on a solo run 2 weeks ago about closing the schools but when Swann does it - not a mention on here.  Oh the irony!!!

I'd say if O'Neill didn't say anything this evening re: the British army, there'd be some outcry on here by lads saying she's welcoming the BA back...lol. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on April 11, 2020, 11:42:30 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 11:25:32 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on April 11, 2020, 10:44:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
On what?

On bringing the British army back.

The British army haven't left, there's still a few thousand based in Lisburn and Holywood. If needs must put the orange and green to one side.

Manufacturing ni have tweeted the same re: loads of unemployed people and lorries etc. about.  Seems the SDLP and the rest welcome the British army as Swann goes on a solo run.  In fainess, PBP questioning it also but D. Kelly and the SDLP can't wait to get them back.

It's ironic people are giving out about O'Neill going on a solo run 2 weeks ago about closing the schools but when Swann does it - not a mention on here.  Oh the irony!!!

I'd say if O'Neill didn't say anything this evening re: the British army, there'd be some outcry on here by lads saying she's welcoming the BA back...lol. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

"Get them back" FFS

Armies are trained in engineering quickly and have already completed a few of these yokes... yes it would be great to get people who are furloughed or lost their jobs to do it but we don't exactly have time to start a recruitment process to get these people in place to get the job done quickly!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gold on April 11, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Michelle O neill has been in a number of no win situations.

Her spoken delivery is very poor though. Conor Murphy is their best speaker, followed by Gildernew or Kelly or Adams (although he is gone).

Lack of charisma in the party for me but there is no one else pushing for reunification...no other party has any interest in it. Theyre the only show in town for that. The South dont care about it and dont care that we are demonised up here for daring to be Irish on the Island of Ireland. At least SF push that agenda and dont let up or bow down
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 11:53:34 PM
Quote from: Gold on April 11, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Michelle O neill has been in a number of no win situations.

Her spoken delivery is very poor though. Conor Murphy is their best speaker, followed by Gildernew or Kelly or Adams (although he is gone).

Lack of charisma for me but there is no one else pushing for reunification...no other party has any interest in it. Theyre the only show in town for that. The South dont care about it and dont care that we are demonised up here for daring to be Irish on the Island of Ireland. At least SF push that agenda and dont let up or bow down

Agree, Murphy would have been a better leader or O' Dowd but like all political parties, no stand out leaders among them.  Sign of the times perhaps.

SF, for all their faults and they have  plenty are the only ones really pushing for a 32 county.  SDLP love Westminister and all the trappings while Aontú are a one subject party, plus a bit right wing for my liking.

FF /FG, both sides of the same coin, couldn't care less about the 6 counties.

If Brexit and Covid 19 has taught us anything, the only future is a 32 county re-united Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 12, 2020, 08:24:24 AM
Remember when the SDLP said they would go into Westminster to challenge brexit?  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 12, 2020, 08:40:16 AM
To justify their murderous campaign (a campaign that actually killed and harm their own nationalist communities more) SF still need a bogeyman. The British Army play that role. That's why they cannot accept their help. If people die, then of course that's a price worth paying for SF. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 12, 2020, 09:25:55 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 11, 2020, 11:42:30 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 11:25:32 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on April 11, 2020, 10:44:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
On what?

On bringing the British army back.

The British army haven't left, there's still a few thousand based in Lisburn and Holywood. If needs must put the orange and green to one side.

Manufacturing ni have tweeted the same re: loads of unemployed people and lorries etc. about.  Seems the SDLP and the rest welcome the British army as Swann goes on a solo run.  In fainess, PBP questioning it also but D. Kelly and the SDLP can't wait to get them back.

It's ironic people are giving out about O'Neill going on a solo run 2 weeks ago about closing the schools but when Swann does it - not a mention on here.  Oh the irony!!!

I'd say if O'Neill didn't say anything this evening re: the British army, there'd be some outcry on here by lads saying she's welcoming the BA back...lol. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

"Get them back" FFS

Armies are trained in engineering quickly and have already completed a few of these yokes... yes it would be great to get people who are furloughed or lost their jobs to do it but we don't exactly have time to start a recruitment process to get these people in place to get the job done quickly!!!

No surprise from you here - did you not say a while back that the Irish language is only a 'hobby'?  And now you want the BA back without any consultation - on a solo run by Swann.

Typical of a lot of people on here - baby unionists in reality but 'big' GAA people on the outside.

Beannachtaí na Cásca!


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 12, 2020, 09:57:21 AM
Only Shinners can be real GAA people in the 6 Cos????
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on April 12, 2020, 10:57:20 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 12, 2020, 09:25:55 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 11, 2020, 11:42:30 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 11:25:32 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on April 11, 2020, 10:44:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 11, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
Could she not have picked up th'oul phone and had a word with him?
Instead of mouthing off to the media and making herself look like a sectarian clown.
DUPUDA have that sector well cornered.

That's her style

What's Aontu's position on it?
On what?

On bringing the British army back.

The British army haven't left, there's still a few thousand based in Lisburn and Holywood. If needs must put the orange and green to one side.

Manufacturing ni have tweeted the same re: loads of unemployed people and lorries etc. about.  Seems the SDLP and the rest welcome the British army as Swann goes on a solo run.  In fainess, PBP questioning it also but D. Kelly and the SDLP can't wait to get them back.

It's ironic people are giving out about O'Neill going on a solo run 2 weeks ago about closing the schools but when Swann does it - not a mention on here.  Oh the irony!!!

I'd say if O'Neill didn't say anything this evening re: the British army, there'd be some outcry on here by lads saying she's welcoming the BA back...lol. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

"Get them back" FFS

Armies are trained in engineering quickly and have already completed a few of these yokes... yes it would be great to get people who are furloughed or lost their jobs to do it but we don't exactly have time to start a recruitment process to get these people in place to get the job done quickly!!!

No surprise from you here - did you not say a while back that the Irish language is only a 'hobby'?  And now you want the BA back without any consultation - on a solo run by Swann.

Typical of a lot of people on here - baby unionists in reality but 'big' GAA people on the outside.

Beannachtaí na Cásca!

Post of the year!!!

The Health service is on its knees in a crisis right now but we still need millions to speak our cúpla focal to prove to the world we're actually Irish!

Sona Cásca tú féin
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 12, 2020, 11:18:42 AM
You need to brush up on your Gaeilge anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 12, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Can yous stay on topic to shinner bashing please?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on April 12, 2020, 01:25:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2020, 11:18:42 AM
You need to brush up on your Gaeilge anyway.

Ah sure it's only a hobby  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 12, 2020, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
Stoopers out in force today. Has anyone heard whether Colm Eastwood has single handedly went over to Westminster and stopped Brexit yet?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on April 12, 2020, 03:42:43 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 12, 2020, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
Stoopers out in force today. Has anyone heard whether Colm Eastwood has single handedly went over to Westminster and stopped Brexit yet?

What nonsense I'm not an SDLP voter but this is drivel.

Have the Shinners delivered a United Ireland yet?? Then wise up!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 12, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 12, 2020, 03:42:43 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 12, 2020, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
Stoopers out in force today. Has anyone heard whether Colm Eastwood has single handedly went over to Westminster and stopped Brexit yet?

What nonsense I'm not an SDLP voter but this is drivel.

Have the Shinners delivered a United Ireland yet?? Then wise up!
Ok colm
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Silver hill on April 12, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
What a ridiculous comment. Have you conveniently forgotten the circumstances leading up to Sinn Féin's withdrawal from power sharing? It was an absolute last resort by Martin mcguinness after months of pettiness, small mindedness and complete lack of respect from the DUP. Parity of esteem ignored, second class citizens, a throwback to Brookeborough and not having a catholic about the place. Catch a grip please.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on April 12, 2020, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on April 12, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
What a ridiculous comment. Have you conveniently forgotten the circumstances leading up to Sinn Féin's withdrawal from power sharing? It was an absolute last resort by Martin mcguinness after months of pettiness, small mindedness and complete lack of respect from the DUP. Parity of esteem ignored, second class citizens, a throwback to Brookeborough and not having a catholic about the place. Catch a grip please.


I don't know how they do it, but for some Sinn Fein have managed to assume the same privileges as the Christian God; anything that is good in the world can be claimed as a victory in their name, but anything that's bad, uneven or unfair, well that's never on them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 12, 2020, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 12, 2020, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on April 12, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
What a ridiculous comment. Have you conveniently forgotten the circumstances leading up to Sinn Féin's withdrawal from power sharing? It was an absolute last resort by Martin mcguinness after months of pettiness, small mindedness and complete lack of respect from the DUP. Parity of esteem ignored, second class citizens, a throwback to Brookeborough and not having a catholic about the place. Catch a grip please.


I don't know how they do it, but for some Sinn Fein have managed to assume the same privileges as the Christian God; anything that is good in the world can be claimed as a victory in their name, but anything that's bad, uneven or unfair, well that's never on them.
The same could be said of any political party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2020, 08:53:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 12, 2020, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on April 12, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
What a ridiculous comment. Have you conveniently forgotten the circumstances leading up to Sinn Féin's withdrawal from power sharing? It was an absolute last resort by Martin mcguinness after months of pettiness, small mindedness and complete lack of respect from the DUP. Parity of esteem ignored, second class citizens, a throwback to Brookeborough and not having a catholic about the place. Catch a grip please.


I don't know how they do it, but for some Sinn Fein have managed to assume the same privileges as the Christian God; anything that is good in the world can be claimed as a victory in their name, but anything that's bad, uneven or unfair, well that's never on them.
Sweet feck.

You could say the exact opposite for SF as well. No matter what they do you'll have the likes of Trailer* outraged at their actions no matter what. Just politics.

* Although it should be noted Trailer' outrage can be triggered easily. Sensitive soul.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: delgany on April 12, 2020, 11:16:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2020, 08:53:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 12, 2020, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on April 12, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
What a ridiculous comment. Have you conveniently forgotten the circumstances leading up to Sinn Féin's withdrawal from power sharing? It was an absolute last resort by Martin mcguinness after months of pettiness, small mindedness and complete lack of respect from the DUP. Parity of esteem ignored, second class citizens, a throwback to Brookeborough and not having a catholic about the place. Catch a grip please.


I don't know how they do it, but for some Sinn Fein have managed to assume the same privileges as the Christian God; anything that is good in the world can be claimed as a victory in their name, but anything that's bad, uneven or unfair, well that's never on them.
Sweet feck.

You could say the exact opposite for SF as well. No matter what they do you'll have the likes of Trailer* outraged at their actions no matter what. Just politics.

* Although it should be noted Trailer' outrage can be triggered easily. Sensitive soul.

So what is the difference in asking the Army to assist the farmers to drop feed for their animals during the bad snow in 2013 as compared to asking them to assist in building a hospital to help the NHS save lives ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 13, 2020, 12:02:26 AM
Quote from: delgany on April 12, 2020, 11:16:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2020, 08:53:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 12, 2020, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on April 12, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
What a ridiculous comment. Have you conveniently forgotten the circumstances leading up to Sinn Féin's withdrawal from power sharing? It was an absolute last resort by Martin mcguinness after months of pettiness, small mindedness and complete lack of respect from the DUP. Parity of esteem ignored, second class citizens, a throwback to Brookeborough and not having a catholic about the place. Catch a grip please.


I don't know how they do it, but for some Sinn Fein have managed to assume the same privileges as the Christian God; anything that is good in the world can be claimed as a victory in their name, but anything that's bad, uneven or unfair, well that's never on them.
Sweet feck.

You could say the exact opposite for SF as well. No matter what they do you'll have the likes of Trailer* outraged at their actions no matter what. Just politics.

* Although it should be noted Trailer' outrage can be triggered easily. Sensitive soul.

So what is the difference in asking the Army to assist the farmers to drop feed for their animals during the bad snow in 2013 as compared to asking them to assist in building a hospital to help the NHS save lives ?
None.
Do you think I have an issue with the decision to use the BA?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 13, 2020, 09:19:18 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 08:40:16 AM
To justify their murderous campaign (a campaign that actually killed and harm their own nationalist communities more) SF still need a bogeyman. The British Army play that role. That's why they cannot accept their help. If people die, then of course that's a price worth paying for SF.

So the British army are a "bogeyman". Can i ask where did you grow up and in what decade?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 13, 2020, 09:58:15 AM
Quote from: Silver hill on April 12, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
SF definitely will have been the reason for a number of unnecessary deaths. Cuts to NHS, the Stormont lockout while waiting lists surged. People need to realise what SF have caused.
What a ridiculous comment. Have you conveniently forgotten the circumstances leading up to Sinn Féin's withdrawal from power sharing? It was an absolute last resort by Martin mcguinness after months of pettiness, small mindedness and complete lack of respect from the DUP. Parity of esteem ignored, second class citizens, a throwback to Brookeborough and not having a catholic about the place. Catch a grip please.

An increasing awareness that the 3 years was a waste of time, definitely had adverse effect on our local health service and staff moral, even worse against a backdrop of no ILA and Arlene still in power. What was gained in the end?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 13, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Anyone who doesn't realise that the Stormont lockout has cost lives is definitely stupid. SF walked out and then back in on the same terms. Gaining nothing. Costing lives as is the SF way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 13, 2020, 08:02:04 PM
Yeah never mind ten years of tory overlords. It's Sinn Fein who are at fault. Keep it up girls
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 13, 2020, 09:19:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on April 13, 2020, 08:02:04 PM
Yeah never mind ten years of tory overlords. It's Sinn Fein who are at fault. Keep it up girls

https://t.co/54rpbrOoO2?amp=1
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 13, 2020, 09:20:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on April 13, 2020, 08:02:04 PM
Yeah never mind ten years of tory overlords. It's Sinn Fein who are at fault. Keep it up girls

https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/11/08/nurses-pay-michelle-oneill-saying-one-thing-in-public-but-something-very-different-in-government/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2020, 12:11:18 PM
May be old news but Mary Lou has it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 14, 2020, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2020, 12:11:18 PM
May be old news but Mary Lou has it.

Thought that. It has already turned into a race to spin as best as possible on Twitter. Our leader is better  sick leader than your leader type stuff, and the govt is shite coz I had  to wait ages.

Anyhow hoping she has a full recovery.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 14, 2020, 01:02:58 PM
She had test on 28th March and was obviously self isolating since then.
Hopefully she pulls through ok.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you kno
Post by: Ambrose on April 14, 2020, 01:07:28 PM
She's had a setback during recovery with post-viral pleurisy in her right lung, but expects to return to work next week.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 14, 2020, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 14, 2020, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2020, 12:11:18 PM
May be old news but Mary Lou has it.

Thought that. It has already turned into a race to spin as best as possible on Twitter. Our leader is better  sick leader than your leader type stuff, and the govt is shite coz I had  to wait ages.

Anyhow hoping she has a full recovery.

Yeh thats what happened alright ::)

Meanwhile no one from Aontu has got Covid 19 as  they are closer to God and he is only currently infecting those who voted for abortion
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 14, 2020, 05:54:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 14, 2020, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 14, 2020, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2020, 12:11:18 PM
May be old news but Mary Lou has it.

Thought that. It has already turned into a race to spin as best as possible on Twitter. Our leader is better  sick leader than your leader type stuff, and the govt is shite coz I had  to wait ages.

Anyhow hoping she has a full recovery.

Yeh thats what happened alright ::)

Meanwhile no one from Aontu has got Covid 19 as  they are closer to God and he is only currently infecting those who voted for abortion

What are talking about God for, sweet Jesus. Go onto twitter and have a look for yourself at some of the comments BTW on Aontú thry are a very small party with a very high proportion who are doctors actually out fighting the virus face on. Some came out of retirement too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 06:52:48 PM
You should share the "proportion of party members that are doctors" statistic for all parties though for fairness.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2020, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 06:52:48 PM
You should share the "proportion of party members that are doctors" statistic for all parties though for fairness.

I said high proportion
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 11:42:24 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2020, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 06:52:48 PM
You should share the "proportion of party members that are doctors" statistic for all parties though for fairness.

I said high proportion

High compared to what. Is it higher than the other parties? If it is how do you know or are you just making this up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 16, 2020, 04:13:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 11:42:24 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2020, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 06:52:48 PM
You should share the "proportion of party members that are doctors" statistic for all parties though for fairness.

I said high proportion

High compared to what. Is it higher than the other parties? If it is how do you know or are you just making this up.

Compared to most yes. Its common enough knowledge, it does not make them a better party because of that ,if just means that they have  a good insight into healthcare , and not gazing at the stars as you suggested
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 17, 2020, 08:31:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 11, 2020, 04:47:46 PM
She's fucked this up bigtime... people want the Health Minister to act not have meetings about meetings around whether or not he should go ahead!!

Fighting this battle looks like petty sectarian politics at a time of crisis and isn't doing anybody any favours!!
If you look at the protocol of all of this, it is clear that not for the first time Swann has acted to embarrass and put pressure on SF. He could have raised it earlier in the afternoon. but chose instead to unilaterally make the announcement. To her credit MON has not said army help was unwanted but questioned Swann's process. In any event he can only request and the MOD will decide.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 17, 2020, 08:36:58 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 11, 2020, 08:58:25 PM
If Michelle o'Neill quit tomorrow, who would be replacing her as leader, as in the heir apparent? Apart from Murphy there appears to be a shocking dearth of talent- and MON is just awful imo.
I would have agreed with you a month ago, but I've actually been impressed with her single-minded drive to save lives rather than present a false unity to an executive that is patently playing politics with this. I would have preferred O'Dowd as Northern leader but reluctantly have to applaud her. Look at Eastwood on the other hand who waits 3 weeks when MON has taken the heat to say the same thing. The SDLP are woeful and Nicola Mallon who I believed to be capable has been invisible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 08:42:53 AM
To be fair I don't think Mallon has been invisible at all. I was just reading some threads on social media last night lauding her. I think she's very good and is actually someone who is more of a worker than someone taking the limelight. Everything else you say there I would agree with though.

I would be more disappointed in Hanna.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 17, 2020, 09:07:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 08:42:53 AM
To be fair I don't think Mallon has been invisible at all. I was just reading some threads on social media last night lauding her. I think she's very good and is actually someone who is more of a worker than someone taking the limelight. Everything else you say there I would agree with though.

I would be more disappointed in Hanna.

I think Mallon is very good - steady hand at the wheel and doing the right things e.g. MOT mess.  Currently doing a good job - quietly and efficiently.

Big hitters like Eastwood and Hanna etc. are missing in action and are ineffective.  That comes from their 'lording' it up in Westminister.  Joining the cosy cartels on the green benches.  Therefore, they get forgot about and are ineffective, not only at times like this but all the time.

That's what happens when the SDLP want the old peerage when the time is up!

O'Neill is doing a good job - calling things out when needed i.e. schools closing earlier.  Everybody agreed with her but because of party politics, people just gave out that the executive was all over the shop.  Not my favourite politician but doing a steady job with empathy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Yeah agree with most of that too. I do think O'Neill has shown some empathy here and when you look at what is coming out of westminster here it is very sadly lacking. I still am not convinced she's a savvy politician at all but I actually think she cared here and has been crucified for it.

I have doctor friends and got a message from one last night with a picture of Hancock. He must have had some picture of him holding presumably an NHS pin. That NHS pin was replaced on the picture by c**t. That is what people in the midst of this think of him and his decisions so how O'Neill can be crucified for what she is saying in this regard I do know but it's kind of ironic that she is being called out for political point scoring by people trying to politically point score.

Eastwood is beginning to appear like a real bluffer IMO.

(Signed someone who voted SDLP and not SF BTW).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 17, 2020, 09:39:09 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Yeah agree with most of that too. I do think O'Neill has shown some empathy here and when you look at what is coming out of westminster here it is very sadly lacking. I still am not convinced she's a savvy politician at all but I actually think she cared here and has been crucified for it.

I have doctor friends and got a message from one last night with a picture of Hancock. He must have had some picture of him holding presumably an NHS pin. That NHS pin was replaced on the picture by c**t. That is what people in the midst of this think of him and his decisions so how O'Neill can be crucified for what she is saying in this regard I do know but it's kind of ironic that she is being called out for political point scoring by people trying to politically point score.

Eastwood is beginning to appear like a real bluffer IMO.

(Signed someone who voted SDLP and not SF BTW).

Piss off Tommy, you're a shinnerbot and we all know it.

;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 17, 2020, 09:52:26 AM
MPs I haven't heard from

Orla Begley
Francie Molloy
Mickey Brady (Ever - never heard him speak)
Paul Maskey
Jim Shannon
Sammy Wilson
Paul Girvan
IPJ

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 17, 2020, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 17, 2020, 09:52:26 AM
MPs I haven't heard from

Orla Begley
Francie Molloy
Mickey Brady (Ever - never heard him speak)
Paul Maskey
Jim Shannon
Sammy Wilson
Paul Girvan
IPJ

Jim is too busy spraying the verges near his house with roundup.

The strimmer gave up the ghost it seems.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 17, 2020, 10:45:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 17, 2020, 09:52:26 AM
MPs I haven't heard from

Orla Begley
Francie Molloy
Mickey Brady (Ever - never heard him speak)
Paul Maskey
Jim Shannon
Sammy Wilson
Paul Girvan
IPJ

Westminister is irrelevant in lives of people in the north - no influence.

SDLP lads sitting on the green benches looking for the crumbs from the table - the old peerage and royal title.

I mean, Eastwood was going to stop Brexit.  How deluded was that - he actually said that.

Btw, how's it going?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 17, 2020, 11:15:44 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Yeah agree with most of that too. I do think O'Neill has shown some empathy here and when you look at what is coming out of westminster here it is very sadly lacking. I still am not convinced she's a savvy politician at all but I actually think she cared here and has been crucified for it.

I have doctor friends and got a message from one last night with a picture of Hancock. He must have had some picture of him holding presumably an NHS pin. That NHS pin was replaced on the picture by c**t. That is what people in the midst of this think of him and his decisions so how O'Neill can be crucified for what she is saying in this regard I do know but it's kind of ironic that she is being called out for political point scoring by people trying to politically point score.

Eastwood is beginning to appear like a real bluffer IMO.

(Signed someone who voted SDLP and not SF BTW).
Hanna disappointed me a long time ago, went on to Nolan re Brexit and was found out when pressed for evidence of economic harm. Like McCallion the family name has got her where she is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 11:27:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 17, 2020, 09:39:09 AM
Piss off Tommy, you're a shinnerbot and we all know it.

;D

;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: currychip on April 17, 2020, 01:17:10 PM
From SF's Westminster election broadcast, for the Colum Eastwood fanboys  ;)


Acht na Gaeilge Anois- what happened that?
Reject Brexit - ditto
Time for Unity - ditto
Respect the remain vote - ditto.

Just in case the non-Shinnerbots want to catch up on politician/party election campaign slogans, you can catch up here
https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/videos/sinn-f%C3%A9in-westminster-election-broadcast-2019/554574525109009/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 17, 2020, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: currychip on April 17, 2020, 01:17:10 PM
From SF's Westminster election broadcast, for the Colum Eastwood fanboys  ;)


Acht na Gaeilge Anois- what happened that?
Reject Brexit - ditto
Time for Unity - ditto
Respect the remain vote - ditto.

Just in case the non-Shinnerbots want to catch up on politician/party election campaign slogans, you can catch up here
https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/videos/sinn-f%C3%A9in-westminster-election-broadcast-2019/554574525109009/

:)

Sinn Féin-the party of champagne socialism and jargon.

Wasn't that Bannshe Anderson going to stop Brexit from Brussel. Oh how did that work out. Ill tell you, she was an embarrassment to us all and got squared off with cozy job in Derry at the end. Bin lids on the border. WTF. How did McCallion get another job ffs.

Bluffers the lot of them, and that is across all the parties.

No Acht na Gaeilge-Ciaran MacGilloa Bhéin used
No RHI resolution.
Arlene still here.

What was the 3 years about . 3 years of complete lack of investment locally in our health service, don't forget MON signed off on the 1% rise for nurses-she has some brass neck now.

Remind me who the SF MPs are please, what do they do really.

We don't have a great pick here across any of the parties tbh

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 24, 2020, 03:43:11 PM
The only rational comment in this rant is that asking how mccallion got a new job. the rest is just pure stoop/ff bs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on April 24, 2020, 07:14:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 24, 2020, 03:43:11 PM
The only rational comment in this rant is that asking how mccallion got a new job. the rest is just pure stoop/ff bs.
Well Arlene is still there;
There is no Acht na gaeilge;
Brexit wasn't stopped;
Nurses had to stand in the rain striking....

All looks rational to me, and other parties were not excused.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Boycey on April 24, 2020, 09:26:13 PM
Mary Lou is on the Late Late tonight to tell us how she'd fix it all in a matter of weeks. Social Media will be awash with acclaim for her performance and demands for her immediate installation as the boss of Ireland...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:28:22 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 24, 2020, 09:26:13 PM
Mary Lou is on the Late Late tonight to tell us how she'd fix it all in a matter of weeks. Social Media will be awash with acclaim for her performance and demands for her immediate installation as the boss of Ireland...

Whens the last time a Sinn Fein leader got on it?

Maybe she'll pretend ahes a doctor or launch an appeal for missing person Micheal Martin.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Boycey on April 24, 2020, 09:35:33 PM
Itchy will be one of most impressed  :)

I'm guessing but she's gotta have been on it before??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2020, 10:46:31 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 24, 2020, 07:14:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 24, 2020, 03:43:11 PM
The only rational comment in this rant is that asking how mccallion got a new job. the rest is just pure stoop/ff bs.
Well Arlene is still there;
There is no Acht na gaeilge;
Brexit wasn't stopped;
Nurses had to stand in the rain striking....

All looks rational to me, and other parties were not excused.

Thank you.

And I haven't the foggiest what the stoop remark was about. Thsts the thing with shinners, they think they are the only republicans out there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 25, 2020, 08:58:19 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2020, 10:46:31 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 24, 2020, 07:14:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 24, 2020, 03:43:11 PM
The only rational comment in this rant is that asking how mccallion got a new job. the rest is just pure stoop/ff bs.
Well Arlene is still there;
There is no Acht na gaeilge;
Brexit wasn't stopped;
Nurses had to stand in the rain striking....

All looks rational to me, and other parties were not excused.

Thank you.

And I haven't the foggiest what the stoop remark was about. Thsts the thing with shinners, they think they are the only republicans out there.

It's similar to Donald Trump's approach to opponents. Sleepy Joe, Crooked Hillary. But look, Respect, Integrity, Equailty.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 25, 2020, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 24, 2020, 09:35:33 PM
Itchy will be one of most impressed  :)

I'm guessing but she's gotta have been on it before??

I was impressed Boycey, she is the most impressive leader in the country at the moment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Boycey on April 25, 2020, 12:53:19 PM
On what basis?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 25, 2020, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 25, 2020, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 24, 2020, 09:35:33 PM
Itchy will be one of most impressed  :)

I'm guessing but she's gotta have been on it before??

I was impressed Boycey, she is the most impressive leader in the country at the moment.

Wise up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 25, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 25, 2020, 12:53:19 PM
On what basis?

I could explain but life is too short and trying to reason with you has proven to be a waste of time. Let's just say thats my personal opinion and would be backed up by most leadership polls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 25, 2020, 06:00:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 25, 2020, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 25, 2020, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 24, 2020, 09:35:33 PM
Itchy will be one of most impressed  :)

I'm guessing but she's gotta have been on it before??

I was impressed Boycey, she is the most impressive leader in the country at the moment.

Wise up

Yeh sound I'll try that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Boycey on April 25, 2020, 06:14:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 25, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 25, 2020, 12:53:19 PM
On what basis?

I could explain but life is too short and trying to reason with you has proven to be a waste of time. Let's just say thats my personal opinion and would be backed up by most leadership polls.

I'm a very reasonable person
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 25, 2020, 10:30:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?

Remind us again of your election predictions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 11:53:30 PM
What has some individual's predictions got to do with Ms McDonald's leadership ability or lack thereof?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?
Haha which seats did they not win that they should've?
Well if nor did anyone then that point is invalid.
Itchy is right, out of the current leaders in Ireland, she is by far the best.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 26, 2020, 03:39:12 PM
She wouldn't lead a horse to water.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 26, 2020, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?
Haha which seats did they not win that they should've?
Well if nor did anyone then that point is invalid.
Itchy is right, out of the current leaders in Ireland, she is by far the best.

One of the SF candidates went on holiday the last week of the election rather than campaign so that tells you what she thought were her chances. She then topped the poll!

SF benefited from not being any of the other main parties such as FG or FF not through any great strides made by Mary Lou.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 26, 2020, 05:39:21 PM
In a nutshell.
As I asked above how many of their "new" 14% also voted for Casey in the Presidential?
Then there were the people in Westmeath who told canvassers of another party that they were voting for the "Sinn Féin man" who was in fact a woman called Sorcha Clarke ;D.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 26, 2020, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?
Haha which seats did they not win that they should've?
Well if nor did anyone then that point is invalid.
Itchy is right, out of the current leaders in Ireland, she is by far the best.

One of the SF candidates went on holiday the last week of the election rather than campaign so that tells you what she thought were her chances. She then topped the poll!

SF benefited from not being any of the other main parties such as FG or FF not through any great strides made by Mary Lou.

Thats a great argument except it holds no water. Why didnt the greens, labour, Aontu grow by 10 points?

The reason people voted for some unknowns in their constituency is they were Voting No1 for Sinn Fein, not necessarily the person they were voting for, because they wanted change. The reason they voted No 1 Sinn Fein and not those other parties was because of  the message Mary Lou was putting out. Thats why the two boys, the state media, the SINDO and the rest of them let the hounds of hell loose on Mary Lou. That's my take on it, you don't have to agree.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 05:41:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 26, 2020, 05:39:21 PM
In a nutshell.
As I asked above how many of their "new" 14% also voted for Casey in the Presidential?
Then there were the people in Westmeath who told canvassers of another party that they were voting for the "Sinn Féin man" who was in fact a woman called Sorcha Clarke ;D.

How can anyone answer such a stupid question?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 05:48:56 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 26, 2020, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?
Haha which seats did they not win that they should've?
Well if nor did anyone then that point is invalid.
Itchy is right, out of the current leaders in Ireland, she is by far the best.

One of the SF candidates went on holiday the last week of the election rather than campaign so that tells you what she thought were her chances. She then topped the poll!

SF benefited from not being any of the other main parties such as FG or FF not through any great strides made by Mary Lou.
SF are one of the main parties....No one's saying that it was down to her great strides or not, the point was that she is the best out of the current leaders in Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 26, 2020, 07:06:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 05:41:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 26, 2020, 05:39:21 PM
In a nutshell.
As I asked above how many of their "new" 14% also voted for Casey in the Presidential?
Then there were the people in Westmeath who told canvassers of another party that they were voting for the "Sinn Féin man" who was in fact a woman called Sorcha Clarke ;D.

How can anyone answer such a stupid question?
Quite sensible intelligent question but a rhetorical one in practice.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ambrose on April 26, 2020, 11:17:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 26, 2020, 03:39:12 PM
She wouldn't lead a horse to water.

But I would feed that pony.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:55:56 AM
There was serious unease within sinn féin grassroots about Mary Lou's leadership prior to the last election in the republic. Her record was very poor in previous elections both sides of the border and seemed to be leading the party into a period of decline. Her resurgence is a result of dissatisfaction with FG/FF rather than any endorsement of her.

SF have not performed well in government North of the border, they are excellent in opposition or as absent protesters as seen up here but struggle in any real crisis.

Vardakar/Covemey on the other hand don't seem to perform well in govt but very well in crisis.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 27, 2020, 10:25:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:55:56 AM
There was serious unease within sinn féin grassroots about Mary Lou's leadership prior to the last election in the republic. Her record was very poor in previous elections both sides of the border and seemed to be leading the party into a period of decline. Her resurgence is a result of dissatisfaction with FG/FF rather than any endorsement of her.

SF have not performed well in government North of the border, they are excellent in opposition or as absent protesters as seen up here but struggle in any real crisis.

Vardakar/Covemey on the other hand don't seem to perform well in govt but very well in crisis.

I will object to this. When Adams left there was certainly a transition period where the party slumped and that has now turned around. To put it all down to some protest vote is total nonsense in my opinion. The election was a cry out for an alternative to the status quo. A wakening of the people that there has to be a better way. In my opinion FF and FG will pay a heavy price for refusing to speak to the party with the largest vote, it smacks of arrogance and certainly is not for the better good of Ireland - its their best stab at protecting themselves. If the greens go in with them they will be obliterated at the next election. In fact, right now I would like to see another election rather than the imbecile Micheal Martin as Taoiseach - the only reason he is going ahead with this amalgamation is so that he is not the only FF leader that was never Taoiseach - arrogance and selfishness.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 10:45:30 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 27, 2020, 10:25:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:55:56 AM
There was serious unease within sinn féin grassroots about Mary Lou's leadership prior to the last election in the republic. Her record was very poor in previous elections both sides of the border and seemed to be leading the party into a period of decline. Her resurgence is a result of dissatisfaction with FG/FF rather than any endorsement of her.

SF have not performed well in government North of the border, they are excellent in opposition or as absent protesters as seen up here but struggle in any real crisis.

Vardakar/Covemey on the other hand don't seem to perform well in govt but very well in crisis.

I will object to this. When Adams left there was certainly a transition period where the party slumped and that has now turned around. To put it all down to some protest vote is total nonsense in my opinion. The election was a cry out for an alternative to the status quo. A wakening of the people that there has to be a better way. In my opinion FF and FG will pay a heavy price for refusing to speak to the party with the largest vote, it smacks of arrogance and certainly is not for the better good of Ireland - its their best stab at protecting themselves. If the greens go in with them they will be obliterated at the next election. In fact, right now I would like to see another election rather than the imbecile Micheal Martin as Taoiseach - the only reason he is going ahead with this amalgamation is so that he is not the only FF leader that was never Taoiseach - arrogance and selfishness.

I said dissatisfaction not protest.

If there is another election , SF will run more candidates and ditch those smaller parties on the left which they dont need anymore, including greens. Its a dirty game is politics
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 27, 2020, 10:50:03 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 26, 2020, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?
Haha which seats did they not win that they should've?
Well if nor did anyone then that point is invalid.
Itchy is right, out of the current leaders in Ireland, she is by far the best.

One of the SF candidates went on holiday the last week of the election rather than campaign so that tells you what she thought were her chances. She then topped the poll!

SF benefited from not being any of the other main parties such as FG or FF not through any great strides made by Mary Lou.

Thats a great argument except it holds no water. Why didnt the greens, labour, Aontu grow by 10 points?

The reason people voted for some unknowns in their constituency is they were Voting No1 for Sinn Fein, not necessarily the person they were voting for, because they wanted change. The reason they voted No 1 Sinn Fein and not those other parties was because of  the message Mary Lou was putting out. Thats why the two boys, the state media, the SINDO and the rest of them let the hounds of hell loose on Mary Lou. That's my take on it, you don't have to agree.

The Green Party had their best ever election result and increased their number of TDs from 3 to 12, proving my point rather than disproving it.

If you don't know why Labour did so poorly in the elections you obviously are too young to remember the last time Labour were in government. Eamonn Gilmore and Joan Burton did their best to destroy the party so they could get Labour into government and a ministerial job for themselves.
Aontu is a one issue party on an issue that was irrelevant in the election.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 27, 2020, 01:03:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 27, 2020, 10:50:03 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 26, 2020, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?
Haha which seats did they not win that they should've?
Well if nor did anyone then that point is invalid.
Itchy is right, out of the current leaders in Ireland, she is by far the best.

One of the SF candidates went on holiday the last week of the election rather than campaign so that tells you what she thought were her chances. She then topped the poll!

SF benefited from not being any of the other main parties such as FG or FF not through any great strides made by Mary Lou.

Thats a great argument except it holds no water. Why didnt the greens, labour, Aontu grow by 10 points?

The reason people voted for some unknowns in their constituency is they were Voting No1 for Sinn Fein, not necessarily the person they were voting for, because they wanted change. The reason they voted No 1 Sinn Fein and not those other parties was because of  the message Mary Lou was putting out. Thats why the two boys, the state media, the SINDO and the rest of them let the hounds of hell loose on Mary Lou. That's my take on it, you don't have to agree.

The Green Party had their best ever election result and increased their number of TDs from 3 to 12, proving my point rather than disproving it.

If you don't know why Labour did so poorly in the elections you obviously are too young to remember the last time Labour were in government. Eamonn Gilmore and Joan Burton did their best to destroy the party so they could get Labour into government and a ministerial job for themselves.
Aontu is a one issue party on an issue that was irrelevant in the election.

So people remember Labour but don't remember the Greens. People dont remember FF either it seems as they got 24%. Doesnt hold water.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 27, 2020, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 27, 2020, 01:03:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 27, 2020, 10:50:03 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 26, 2020, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?
Haha which seats did they not win that they should've?
Well if nor did anyone then that point is invalid.
Itchy is right, out of the current leaders in Ireland, she is by far the best.

One of the SF candidates went on holiday the last week of the election rather than campaign so that tells you what she thought were her chances. She then topped the poll!

SF benefited from not being any of the other main parties such as FG or FF not through any great strides made by Mary Lou.

Thats a great argument except it holds no water. Why didnt the greens, labour, Aontu grow by 10 points?

The reason people voted for some unknowns in their constituency is they were Voting No1 for Sinn Fein, not necessarily the person they were voting for, because they wanted change. The reason they voted No 1 Sinn Fein and not those other parties was because of  the message Mary Lou was putting out. Thats why the two boys, the state media, the SINDO and the rest of them let the hounds of hell loose on Mary Lou. That's my take on it, you don't have to agree.

The Green Party had their best ever election result and increased their number of TDs from 3 to 12, proving my point rather than disproving it.

If you don't know why Labour did so poorly in the elections you obviously are too young to remember the last time Labour were in government. Eamonn Gilmore and Joan Burton did their best to destroy the party so they could get Labour into government and a ministerial job for themselves.
Aontu is a one issue party on an issue that was irrelevant in the election.

So people remember Labour but don't remember the Greens. People dont remember FF either it seems as they got 24%. Doesnt hold water.

It hold's water perfectly well(whatever your water analogy is supposed to mean) Labour broke so many many promises after entering government it ruined the party. Everyone remembers the "every little hurts" ad campaign as they  broke every single promise once elected. Big difference between them and the Greens. If you're to young to remember, google it. Also Ireland was well on the road to economic ruin before the Greens entered government.

Finally if you think 24% of the vote was an impressive election for FF you really don't understand Irish politics. They are down to their core vote at this stage which is about 20% They would have been used to getting at least 40% of the vote each election up to the crash.

Last year SF under Mary Lou lost one third of their seats in the local elections and lost European seats as well. Perhaps you can tell us what she did that inspired such a dramatic shift in popularity for the party for the General Election?

If she was that confident of SF performing so well in the elections why did they not run additional candidates in each constituency? She wasn't even confident enough to run a 2nd SF candidate in her own constituency.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 02:33:45 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 27, 2020, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 27, 2020, 01:03:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 27, 2020, 10:50:03 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 26, 2020, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
The case for Boycey -
Under Ms McDonald a mere 11 months ago SF lost half their Council seats in the 26 and 2 of their 3 MPs.
SF should have done better in the Westminster election.
She didn't foresee ( nor did anyone else) that their vote would go from 11% to *24% 9 months later.
On a personal level good to see she got over the virus.
However she was back to her worst school mistress preaching where everyone  and everything is wrong .

* How many of those were pissed off anti establishment voters who voted Casey in the Presidential election?
Haha which seats did they not win that they should've?
Well if nor did anyone then that point is invalid.
Itchy is right, out of the current leaders in Ireland, she is by far the best.

One of the SF candidates went on holiday the last week of the election rather than campaign so that tells you what she thought were her chances. She then topped the poll!

SF benefited from not being any of the other main parties such as FG or FF not through any great strides made by Mary Lou.

Thats a great argument except it holds no water. Why didnt the greens, labour, Aontu grow by 10 points?

The reason people voted for some unknowns in their constituency is they were Voting No1 for Sinn Fein, not necessarily the person they were voting for, because they wanted change. The reason they voted No 1 Sinn Fein and not those other parties was because of  the message Mary Lou was putting out. Thats why the two boys, the state media, the SINDO and the rest of them let the hounds of hell loose on Mary Lou. That's my take on it, you don't have to agree.

The Green Party had their best ever election result and increased their number of TDs from 3 to 12, proving my point rather than disproving it.

If you don't know why Labour did so poorly in the elections you obviously are too young to remember the last time Labour were in government. Eamonn Gilmore and Joan Burton did their best to destroy the party so they could get Labour into government and a ministerial job for themselves.
Aontu is a one issue party on an issue that was irrelevant in the election.

So people remember Labour but don't remember the Greens. People dont remember FF either it seems as they got 24%. Doesnt hold water.

It hold's water perfectly well(whatever your water analogy is supposed to mean) Labour broke so many many promises after entering government it ruined the party. Everyone remembers the "every little hurts" ad campaign as they  broke every single promise once elected. Big difference between them and the Greens. If you're to young to remember, google it. Also Ireland was well on the road to economic ruin before the Greens entered government.

Finally if you think 24% of the vote was an impressive election for FF you really don't understand Irish politics. They are down to their core vote at this stage which is about 20% They would have been used to getting at least 40% of the vote each election up to the crash.

Last year SF under Mary Lou lost one third of their seats in the local elections and lost European seats as well. Perhaps you can tell us what she did that inspired such a dramatic shift in popularity for the party for the General Election?

If she was that confident of SF performing so well in the elections why did they not run additional candidates in each constituency? She wasn't even confident enough to run a 2nd SF candidate in her own constituency.

Maith thú. Good post. And one of the candidates even went on holidays
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on May 02, 2020, 09:08:19 PM
Video going about twitter of Sean Kelly wielding an iron bar ready to batter someone  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2020, 12:15:44 AM
Sinn Féin HQ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on May 03, 2020, 09:57:09 PM
https://twitter.com/Dave84961160/status/1256988267414683657
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 03, 2020, 10:49:16 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 03, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
That's an iron bar? Underwhelming.

Maybe he was trying to give it back to the young man.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 09, 2020, 03:26:25 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He was also wrong. Minimum wage and the furlough payment are not devolved and have nothing to do with SF. Its not SFs fault the minimum wage is crap in the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tyrone08 on May 09, 2020, 03:41:56 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 09, 2020, 03:26:25 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He was also wrong. Minimum wage and the furlough payment are not devolved and have nothing to do with SF. Its not SFs fault the minimum wage is crap in the North.

Agreed. I had to laugh at the irony of the p***k insulting trump and SF when he was in America on paddy's day announcing a lockdown for Ireland. He showed his true colours and they are not pretty.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 09, 2020, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He lost an opportunity. Because he really coyid have went to town on sf rubber stamping welfare reform, stopping nurses get fair wage rise, killing procurement and spend for 3 years. And see those food parcels, joke, they flooded ardgrange turasmore etc. Why coz that's where their vote dropped? Nobody came near our wee council estate anyhow, not enough votes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 09, 2020, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He lost an opportunity. Because he really coyid have went to town on sf rubber stamping welfare reform, stopping nurses get fair wage rise, killing procurement and spend for 3 years. And see those food parcels, joke, they flooded ardgrange turasmore etc. Why coz that's where their vote dropped? Nobody came near our wee council estate anyhow, not enough votes.

Leo showed an inherent misunderstanding of how the North (TM) works. Nobody is ever "in power" up here, due to the nature of devolution. Powers are very limited, with Westminster still holding the reins. Stormont is a glorified local council, who's main powers revolve around funding as opposed to law making. Add this to the fact that there are FIVE parties in the executive, and that widespread agreement is needed to pass anything in the chamber, and SF really have no power. I'd argue they have more power in Dublin.

I agree on the food parcel stunts. Who ever thought the optics of that would look good? See they were giving out iPads on the Falls, a vote heartland. iPads!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 10, 2020, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 09, 2020, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He lost an opportunity. Because he really coyid have went to town on sf rubber stamping welfare reform, stopping nurses get fair wage rise, killing procurement and spend for 3 years. And see those food parcels, joke, they flooded ardgrange turasmore etc. Why coz that's where their vote dropped? Nobody came near our wee council estate anyhow, not enough votes.

Leo showed an inherent misunderstanding of how the North (TM) works. Nobody is ever "in power" up here, due to the nature of devolution. Powers are very limited, with Westminster still holding the reins. Stormont is a glorified local council, who's main powers revolve around funding as opposed to law making. Add this to the fact that there are FIVE parties in the executive, and that widespread agreement is needed to pass anything in the chamber, and SF really have no power. I'd argue they have more power in Dublin.

I agree on the food parcel stunts. Who ever thought the optics of that would look good? See they were giving out iPads on the Falls, a vote heartland. iPads!!

SF can't blame everything on Westminster and Tory cuts. Like if they can't improve people's lives in NI then get out of the way and let's others have a go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on May 10, 2020, 11:58:41 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on May 09, 2020, 03:41:56 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 09, 2020, 03:26:25 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He was also wrong. Minimum wage and the furlough payment are not devolved and have nothing to do with SF. Its not SFs fault the minimum wage is crap in the North.

Agreed. I had to laugh at the irony of the p***k insulting trump and SF when he was in America on paddy's day announcing a lockdown for Ireland. He showed his true colours and they are not pretty.

Its called schmoozing. Not a skill required in the land of SF utopia.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2020, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 09, 2020, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He lost an opportunity. Because he really coyid have went to town on sf rubber stamping welfare reform, stopping nurses get fair wage rise, killing procurement and spend for 3 years. And see those food parcels, joke, they flooded ardgrange turasmore etc. Why coz that's where their vote dropped? Nobody came near our wee council estate anyhow, not enough votes.

Leo showed an inherent misunderstanding of how the North (TM) works. Nobody is ever "in power" up here, due to the nature of devolution. Powers are very limited, with Westminster still holding the reins. Stormont is a glorified local council, who's main powers revolve around funding as opposed to law making. Add this to the fact that there are FIVE parties in the executive, and that widespread agreement is needed to pass anything in the chamber, and SF really have no power. I'd argue they have more power in Dublin.

I agree on the food parcel stunts. Who ever thought the optics of that would look good? See they were giving out iPads on the Falls, a vote heartland. iPads!!

SF can't blame everything on Westminster and Tory cuts. Like if they can't improve people's lives in NI then get out of the way and let's others have a go.

Others did have a go. It didn't work then ether. The north is not viable. Sooner people realise this the better.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 10, 2020, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2020, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 09, 2020, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He lost an opportunity. Because he really coyid have went to town on sf rubber stamping welfare reform, stopping nurses get fair wage rise, killing procurement and spend for 3 years. And see those food parcels, joke, they flooded ardgrange turasmore etc. Why coz that's where their vote dropped? Nobody came near our wee council estate anyhow, not enough votes.

Leo showed an inherent misunderstanding of how the North (TM) works. Nobody is ever "in power" up here, due to the nature of devolution. Powers are very limited, with Westminster still holding the reins. Stormont is a glorified local council, who's main powers revolve around funding as opposed to law making. Add this to the fact that there are FIVE parties in the executive, and that widespread agreement is needed to pass anything in the chamber, and SF really have no power. I'd argue they have more power in Dublin.

I agree on the food parcel stunts. Who ever thought the optics of that would look good? See they were giving out iPads on the Falls, a vote heartland. iPads!!

SF can't blame everything on Westminster and Tory cuts. Like if they can't improve people's lives in NI then get out of the way and let's others have a go.

Others did have a go. It didn't work then ether. The north is not viable. Sooner people realise this the better.

SF have been the largest Nationalist party in the North for going on 10 years. Sticking it to the DUP does not create jobs or put food on people's tables.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on May 10, 2020, 12:43:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2020, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2020, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 09, 2020, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He lost an opportunity. Because he really coyid have went to town on sf rubber stamping welfare reform, stopping nurses get fair wage rise, killing procurement and spend for 3 years. And see those food parcels, joke, they flooded ardgrange turasmore etc. Why coz that's where their vote dropped? Nobody came near our wee council estate anyhow, not enough votes.

Leo showed an inherent misunderstanding of how the North (TM) works. Nobody is ever "in power" up here, due to the nature of devolution. Powers are very limited, with Westminster still holding the reins. Stormont is a glorified local council, who's main powers revolve around funding as opposed to law making. Add this to the fact that there are FIVE parties in the executive, and that widespread agreement is needed to pass anything in the chamber, and SF really have no power. I'd argue they have more power in Dublin.

I agree on the food parcel stunts. Who ever thought the optics of that would look good? See they were giving out iPads on the Falls, a vote heartland. iPads!!

SF can't blame everything on Westminster and Tory cuts. Like if they can't improve people's lives in NI then get out of the way and let's others have a go.

Others did have a go. It didn't work then ether. The north is not viable. Sooner people realise this the better.

SF have been the largest Nationalist party in the North for going on 10 years. Sticking it to the DUP does not create jobs or put food on people's tables.

Conversely the SDLP were the biggest nationalist party for years and didn't improve things.  Too busy now cuddling up on the green benches over in London with their baron and baroness titles. 

The 6 counties is a failed political entity. Fullstop.  The SDLP and others should be pushing to develop a new Ireland instead of bowing to queen or being in a half in/half out relationship with the right wingers and partitionists of fg and ff.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 10, 2020, 12:43:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2020, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2020, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 09, 2020, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He lost an opportunity. Because he really coyid have went to town on sf rubber stamping welfare reform, stopping nurses get fair wage rise, killing procurement and spend for 3 years. And see those food parcels, joke, they flooded ardgrange turasmore etc. Why coz that's where their vote dropped? Nobody came near our wee council estate anyhow, not enough votes.

Leo showed an inherent misunderstanding of how the North (TM) works. Nobody is ever "in power" up here, due to the nature of devolution. Powers are very limited, with Westminster still holding the reins. Stormont is a glorified local council, who's main powers revolve around funding as opposed to law making. Add this to the fact that there are FIVE parties in the executive, and that widespread agreement is needed to pass anything in the chamber, and SF really have no power. I'd argue they have more power in Dublin.

I agree on the food parcel stunts. Who ever thought the optics of that would look good? See they were giving out iPads on the Falls, a vote heartland. iPads!!

SF can't blame everything on Westminster and Tory cuts. Like if they can't improve people's lives in NI then get out of the way and let's others have a go.

Others did have a go. It didn't work then ether. The north is not viable. Sooner people realise this the better.

SF have been the largest Nationalist party in the North for going on 10 years. Sticking it to the DUP does not create jobs or put food on people's tables.

Conversely the SDLP were the biggest nationalist party for years and didn't improve things. Too busy now cuddling up on the green benches over in London with their baron and baroness titles. 

The 6 counties is a failed political entity. Fullstop.  The SDLP and others should be pushing to develop a new Ireland instead of bowing to queen or being in a half in/half out relationship with the right wingers and partitionists of fg and ff.



Are you too young to remember the civil rights movement that culminated in the Assembly, or does it just not suit your narrative to remember that's what the SDLP was formed to do, and ultimately delivered?




I do f**king wonder what goes through peoples' heads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
It's not condescending HS.

It's disgust.

"What did the SDLP ever do for us?".

f**k me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 10, 2020, 02:38:19 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 10, 2020, 12:43:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2020, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2020, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 10, 2020, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 09, 2020, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 09, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Anybody see Varadkars rant yesterday? Embarrassing, badly let himself down, completely lost his cool.

He lost an opportunity. Because he really coyid have went to town on sf rubber stamping welfare reform, stopping nurses get fair wage rise, killing procurement and spend for 3 years. And see those food parcels, joke, they flooded ardgrange turasmore etc. Why coz that's where their vote dropped? Nobody came near our wee council estate anyhow, not enough votes.

Leo showed an inherent misunderstanding of how the North (TM) works. Nobody is ever "in power" up here, due to the nature of devolution. Powers are very limited, with Westminster still holding the reins. Stormont is a glorified local council, who's main powers revolve around funding as opposed to law making. Add this to the fact that there are FIVE parties in the executive, and that widespread agreement is needed to pass anything in the chamber, and SF really have no power. I'd argue they have more power in Dublin.

I agree on the food parcel stunts. Who ever thought the optics of that would look good? See they were giving out iPads on the Falls, a vote heartland. iPads!!

SF can't blame everything on Westminster and Tory cuts. Like if they can't improve people's lives in NI then get out of the way and let's others have a go.

Others did have a go. It didn't work then ether. The north is not viable. Sooner people realise this the better.

SF have been the largest Nationalist party in the North for going on 10 years. Sticking it to the DUP does not create jobs or put food on people's tables.

Conversely the SDLP were the biggest nationalist party for years and didn't improve things.  Too busy now cuddling up on the green benches over in London with their baron and baroness titles. 

The 6 counties is a failed political entity. Fullstop.  The SDLP and others should be pushing to develop a new Ireland instead of bowing to queen or being in a half in/half out relationship with the right wingers and partitionists of fg and ff.

There's some shite spouted on this board but this takes the f**king biscuit

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 10, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
It's not condescending HS.

It's disgust.

"What did the SDLP ever do for us?".

f**k me.
I don't particularly disagree with your overall point but asking if someone is too young to remember something is condescending even if it is done in disgust. Asking it when you yourself are also too young to remember is fairly odd.

Ah I see where you're at here now , and I think we're confused.

No I wasn't around for Bloody Sunday and the formation of the Civil Rights Movement, or the formation of the SDLP.

But I was here for 20 years or so where the SDLP used their voice, support and mandate to deliver equal rights for Catholics in NI.

That the Troubles have been kept at bay for 20+ years owes more to equality than anything else. In an ideal world there would be a united Ireland. But co-habiting a space on roughly equal terms isn't a bad way to live.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 10, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 10, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
It's not condescending HS.

It's disgust.

"What did the SDLP ever do for us?".

f**k me.
I don't particularly disagree with your overall point but asking if someone is too young to remember something is condescending even if it is done in disgust. Asking it when you yourself are also too young to remember is fairly odd.

Ah I see where you're at here now , and I think we're confused.

No I wasn't around for Bloody Sunday and the formation of the Civil Rights Movement, or the formation of the SDLP.

But I was here for 20 years or so where the SDLP used their voice, support and mandate to deliver equal rights for Catholics in NI.

That the Troubles have been kept at bay for 20+ years owes more to equality than anything else. In an ideal world there would be a united Ireland. But co-habiting a space on roughly equal terms isn't a bad way to live.

this 'i'm alright jack' attitude is precisely what's wrong with ireland in general, the sick counties are a backward wasteland, we all have to aim for better  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on May 10, 2020, 03:44:30 PM
Of course we have to aim for better but we're a hell of a lot better off than we were in the sixties and saying the SDLP has nothing to do with it is disingenuous at best if not complete ignorance!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 10, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 10, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
It's not condescending HS.

It's disgust.

"What did the SDLP ever do for us?".

f**k me.
I don't particularly disagree with your overall point but asking if someone is too young to remember something is condescending even if it is done in disgust. Asking it when you yourself are also too young to remember is fairly odd.

Ah I see where you're at here now , and I think we're confused.

No I wasn't around for Bloody Sunday and the formation of the Civil Rights Movement, or the formation of the SDLP.

But I was here for 20 years or so where the SDLP used their voice, support and mandate to deliver equal rights for Catholics in NI.

That the Troubles have been kept at bay for 20+ years owes more to equality than anything else. In an ideal world there would be a united Ireland. But co-habiting a space on roughly equal terms isn't a bad way to live.

this 'i'm alright jack' attitude is precisely what's wrong with ireland in general, the sick counties are a backward wasteland, we all have to aim for better  ;)

If "something better" is the 2020 Dublin, where the middle class stockpile houses for AirBNB, which in turn forces the working class to pay almost their entire income on rent, or spend half their day travelling to and from work, then it's time for another Civil Rights movement on the island, but not up North, strangely enough.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 10, 2020, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 10, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 10, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
It's not condescending HS.

It's disgust.

"What did the SDLP ever do for us?".

f**k me.
I don't particularly disagree with your overall point but asking if someone is too young to remember something is condescending even if it is done in disgust. Asking it when you yourself are also too young to remember is fairly odd.

Ah I see where you're at here now , and I think we're confused.

No I wasn't around for Bloody Sunday and the formation of the Civil Rights Movement, or the formation of the SDLP.

But I was here for 20 years or so where the SDLP used their voice, support and mandate to deliver equal rights for Catholics in NI.

That the Troubles have been kept at bay for 20+ years owes more to equality than anything else. In an ideal world there would be a united Ireland. But co-habiting a space on roughly equal terms isn't a bad way to live.

this 'i'm alright jack' attitude is precisely what's wrong with ireland in general, the sick counties are a backward wasteland, we all have to aim for better  ;)

If "something better" is the 2020 Dublin, where the middle class stockpile houses for AirBNB, which in turn forces the working class to pay almost their entire income on rent, or spend half their day travelling to and from work, then it's time for another Civil Rights movement on the island, but not up North, strangely enough.

unfortunately the republic was never established but we should not give up

this is probably more true today than ever

"If you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle., unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs."

James Connolly
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 11, 2020, 12:11:53 AM
We have a very socialist Republic these days and everyone is complaining :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 11, 2020, 10:34:55 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 10, 2020, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 10, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 10, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
It's not condescending HS.

It's disgust.

"What did the SDLP ever do for us?".

f**k me.
I don't particularly disagree with your overall point but asking if someone is too young to remember something is condescending even if it is done in disgust. Asking it when you yourself are also too young to remember is fairly odd.

Ah I see where you're at here now , and I think we're confused.

No I wasn't around for Bloody Sunday and the formation of the Civil Rights Movement, or the formation of the SDLP.

But I was here for 20 years or so where the SDLP used their voice, support and mandate to deliver equal rights for Catholics in NI.

That the Troubles have been kept at bay for 20+ years owes more to equality than anything else. In an ideal world there would be a united Ireland. But co-habiting a space on roughly equal terms isn't a bad way to live.

this 'i'm alright jack' attitude is precisely what's wrong with ireland in general, the sick counties are a backward wasteland, we all have to aim for better  ;)

If "something better" is the 2020 Dublin, where the middle class stockpile houses for AirBNB, which in turn forces the working class to pay almost their entire income on rent, or spend half their day travelling to and from work, then it's time for another Civil Rights movement on the island, but not up North, strangely enough.

unfortunately the republic was never established but we should not give up

this is probably more true today than ever

"If you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle., unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs."

James Connolly

Please direct me to any fully socialist republic that has been a success. By all means quote Connolly but lets see you back it up. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 11, 2020, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 10, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 10, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
It's not condescending HS.

It's disgust.

"What did the SDLP ever do for us?".

f**k me.
I don't particularly disagree with your overall point but asking if someone is too young to remember something is condescending even if it is done in disgust. Asking it when you yourself are also too young to remember is fairly odd.

Ah I see where you're at here now , and I think we're confused.

No I wasn't around for Bloody Sunday and the formation of the Civil Rights Movement, or the formation of the SDLP.

But I was here for 20 years or so where the SDLP used their voice, support and mandate to deliver equal rights for Catholics in NI.

That the Troubles have been kept at bay for 20+ years owes more to equality than anything else. In an ideal world there would be a united Ireland. But co-habiting a space on roughly equal terms isn't a bad way to live.

this 'i'm alright jack' attitude is precisely what's wrong with ireland in general, the sick counties are a backward wasteland, we all have to aim for better  ;)

If "something better" is the 2020 Dublin, where the middle class stockpile houses for AirBNB, which in turn forces the working class to pay almost their entire income on rent, or spend half their day travelling to and from work, then it's time for another Civil Rights movement on the island, but not up North, strangely enough.
Yes, the British subsidy tit flows more equal these days,  one tit  for each "community".  How uplifting and dignified that must feel,  equality at last.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 14, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Blaming SF for not improving things in NI is just plain wrong, as it would be to blame The DUP, SDLP or any other party. It is a regional assembly charged with spending a Westminster hand out, and diminishing resources. The real meaning full way for any NI political party to bring change will only ever be in the context of a UI where they would hold a balance of power. This will never happen at a UK level and English needs will always prevail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 14, 2020, 12:01:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 11, 2020, 10:34:55 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 10, 2020, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 10, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 10, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
It's not condescending HS.

It's disgust.

"What did the SDLP ever do for us?".

f**k me.
I don't particularly disagree with your overall point but asking if someone is too young to remember something is condescending even if it is done in disgust. Asking it when you yourself are also too young to remember is fairly odd.

Ah I see where you're at here now , and I think we're confused.

No I wasn't around for Bloody Sunday and the formation of the Civil Rights Movement, or the formation of the SDLP.

But I was here for 20 years or so where the SDLP used their voice, support and mandate to deliver equal rights for Catholics in NI.

That the Troubles have been kept at bay for 20+ years owes more to equality than anything else. In an ideal world there would be a united Ireland. But co-habiting a space on roughly equal terms isn't a bad way to live.

this 'i'm alright jack' attitude is precisely what's wrong with ireland in general, the sick counties are a backward wasteland, we all have to aim for better  ;)

If "something better" is the 2020 Dublin, where the middle class stockpile houses for AirBNB, which in turn forces the working class to pay almost their entire income on rent, or spend half their day travelling to and from work, then it's time for another Civil Rights movement on the island, but not up North, strangely enough.

unfortunately the republic was never established but we should not give up

this is probably more true today than ever

"If you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle., unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs."

James Connolly

Please direct me to any fully socialist republic that has been a success. By all means quote Connolly but lets see you back it up.

No? Great quote though. Means f**k all, but great quote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 14, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 14, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Blaming SF for not improving things in NI is just plain wrong, as it would be to blame The DUP, SDLP or any other party. It is a regional assembly charged with spending a Westminster hand out, and diminishing resources. The real meaning full way for any NI political party to bring change will only ever be in the context of a UI where they would hold a balance of power. This will never happen at a UK level and English needs will always prevail.

+1
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 14, 2020, 01:02:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 14, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 14, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Blaming SF for not improving things in NI is just plain wrong, as it would be to blame The DUP, SDLP or any other party. It is a regional assembly charged with spending a Westminster hand out, and diminishing resources. The real meaning full way for any NI political party to bring change will only ever be in the context of a UI where they would hold a balance of power. This will never happen at a UK level and English needs will always prevail.

+1

-1
This completely exonerates the DUP for RHI. It absolves SF and the DUP for any issues with SIF or Welfare reform. You cannot simply say that the Assembly does not have the ability to improve peoples lives. That is simply not true. If SF cannot improve peoples lives then get out the way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 14, 2020, 01:02:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 14, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 14, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Blaming SF for not improving things in NI is just plain wrong, as it would be to blame The DUP, SDLP or any other party. It is a regional assembly charged with spending a Westminster hand out, and diminishing resources. The real meaning full way for any NI political party to bring change will only ever be in the context of a UI where they would hold a balance of power. This will never happen at a UK level and English needs will always prevail.

+1

-1
This completely exonerates the DUP for RHI. It absolves SF and the DUP for any issues with SIF or Welfare reform. You cannot simply say that the Assembly does not have the ability to improve peoples lives. That is simply not true. If SF cannot improve peoples lives then get out the way.

For example, SF could have improved the lives of 10 year olds and their parents, by not interfering with the 11+ until they had a plan to replace it with something better.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 14, 2020, 01:12:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 14, 2020, 01:02:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 14, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 14, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Blaming SF for not improving things in NI is just plain wrong, as it would be to blame The DUP, SDLP or any other party. It is a regional assembly charged with spending a Westminster hand out, and diminishing resources. The real meaning full way for any NI political party to bring change will only ever be in the context of a UI where they would hold a balance of power. This will never happen at a UK level and English needs will always prevail.

+1

-1
This completely exonerates the DUP for RHI. It absolves SF and the DUP for any issues with SIF or Welfare reform. You cannot simply say that the Assembly does not have the ability to improve peoples lives. That is simply not true. If SF cannot improve peoples lives then get out the way.

For example, SF could have improved the lives of 10 year olds and their parents, by not interfering with the 11+ until they had a plan to replace it with something better.

It's a standard SF line. Tory cuts. Brexit. Never their fault. But when there's credit to be taken they're first on the scene. FFS they even tried to take credit for the Civil rights organisation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on May 14, 2020, 01:39:21 PM
SF and co carry out the jobs set by their British overlords. And at same time, Britain absolves itself from any blame of what goes on in the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 14, 2020, 03:13:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 14, 2020, 01:02:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 14, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 14, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Blaming SF for not improving things in NI is just plain wrong, as it would be to blame The DUP, SDLP or any other party. It is a regional assembly charged with spending a Westminster hand out, and diminishing resources. The real meaning full way for any NI political party to bring change will only ever be in the context of a UI where they would hold a balance of power. This will never happen at a UK level and English needs will always prevail.

+1

-1
This completely exonerates the DUP for RHI. It absolves SF and the DUP for any issues with SIF or Welfare reform. You cannot simply say that the Assembly does not have the ability to improve peoples lives. That is simply not true. If SF cannot improve peoples lives then get out the way.

For example, SF could have improved the lives of 10 year olds and their parents, by not interfering with the 11+ until they had a plan to replace it with something better.

IIRC Martin McGuinness commissioned a white paper or other carried out by some specialist in the field, the Burns report. The actual removal of the 11 plus was done by a British minister.
Catroina Ruane subsequently had tried to introduce the new process but was scuppered due to gerrymandering in Stormont;

https://www.education-ni.gov.uk/articles/timeline-development-transfer-policy (https://www.education-ni.gov.uk/articles/timeline-development-transfer-policy)

The second part was continuous assessment of the child in P6 and P7 with a decision to be made with the schools in question and the childs parents, whether a vocational education or academic education was best for the child, Pupil Profiling. But guess what, the DUP, UUP along with Robert McCartney QC lobbying hard for Grammar schools killed the second part of the deal and we ended up where we are now;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3429541.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3429541.stm)


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15691850 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15691850)

If you're going to criticise someone or something then at least be sure they're guilty of what you're charging them with.


Don't get me wrong, the way the DUP and the Shinners carve up these "community" grants takes me to the cleaners and serves no ones interests long term or short term.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 04:30:27 PM
Johnny here's how I remember it.

Unionist leaders were always clear that they wanted to retain academic selection. For their own reasons. The majority of Catholic Grammars wanted to retain academic selection, as turkeys don't usually vote for Christmas.

Despite being fully aware of this, SF (Ruane) went and abolished the 11+ anyway.

Hence my complaint a few posts ago. They shouldn't have interfered with 11+ without a plan to replace it. And they didn't have a plan. They had an ideology.

And as a result, many Belfast children now sit 4 x 11 plus equivalents.

——-

I suppose you're entitled to paint unionists as the problem here. Call them backward thinking, child abusers, whatever suits depending on how passionate / angry you are about education.

But actions speak louder than words. SF forced the action. Everything since was a reaction. So I make you wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 15, 2020, 08:26:58 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 04:30:27 PM
Johnny here's how I remember it.

Unionist leaders were always clear that they wanted to retain academic selection. For their own reasons. The majority of Catholic Grammars wanted to retain academic selection, as turkeys don't usually vote for Christmas.

Despite being fully aware of this, SF (Ruane) went and abolished the 11+ anyway.

Hence my complaint a few posts ago. They shouldn't have interfered with 11+ without a plan to replace it. And they didn't have a plan. They had an ideology.

And as a result, many Belfast children now sit 4 x 11 plus equivalents.

——-

I suppose you're entitled to paint unionists as the problem here. Call them backward thinking, child abusers, whatever suits depending on how passionate / angry you are about education.

But actions speak louder than words. SF forced the action. Everything since was a reaction. So I make you wrong.

SF (Ruane) didn't do this off their own compunction and commissioned the Burns report which not only would have saw the end of the 11+ but the introduction to pupil profiling to replace it which the SDLP supported at the time.

Now I would have thought the changes would have come in as a job lot rather than piecemeal but that happened due to gerrymandering in the assembly as per the links I've attached above.

When people say, what have the Shinners ever done when they've been in power it can be seen from the above that unless you've cross community (or even social class support as per the 11+) its near on impossible to get any substantial changes made in Stormont.
We all know the DUP don't give a flying f**k for working class prods when it comes to education.

The much lauded Bengoa report to be introduced in health either won't happen as it would mean at least three or four hospitals being closed most notably in the Greater Belfast area, either the City, Dundonald and most likely Lisburn at the very least and some elsewhere like Omagh or Newry.
It's never going to happen and they all know it, sitting up in Stormont.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 15, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
11+ plus, supervised it many a time, didn't really agree with it in principal, as its alot of pressure on children at a young age, but u don't dispose of sthing until the new procedure is up and running. Now children do multi exams and not even in their own school environment. That lies solely at Sinn Feins door as they forced through doing away with the test and didn't give a shit if a new process was in place or not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 08:51:08 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 15, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
11+ plus, supervised it many a time, didn't really agree with it in principal, as its alot of pressure on children at a young age, but u don't dispose of sthing until the new procedure is up and running. Now children do multi exams and not even in their own school environment. That lies solely at Sinn Feins door as they forced through doing away with the test and didn't give a shit if a new process was in place or not.

Then things will never change here due to the format of Government in Stormont, no?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: delgany on May 19, 2020, 08:59:36 PM
Grammar schools are in a very difficult position to use non-academic selection criteria.  The test results are the only objective measure that can be controlled by the schools.
Non- academic criteria would be open to interpretation and hence litigation. It would be a mined field for the schools as they are mainly independent of the employing authorities ( voluntary grammars ), run by their Governors ,funded by DENI. The lawyers would be lining up ! In past few years , there had been two judicial reviews of  a schools non- academic selection criteria. This resulted in the appellant gaining a place and it resulted in some schools changing their criteria, to remove criteria  like " child of an employee , and a child of a past pupil"
The running of tests is the 'best' worst case scenario, at this stage.  SF have no input into the present situation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 20, 2020, 08:18:00 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 15, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
11+ plus, supervised it many a time, didn't really agree with it in principal, as its alot of pressure on children at a young age, but u don't dispose of sthing until the new procedure is up and running. Now children do multi exams and not even in their own school environment. That lies solely at Sinn Feins door as they forced through doing away with the test and didn't give a shit if a new process was in place or not.

No, it doesn't. SF made a recommendation after the Burns report. The test was removed by the Labour education secretary Jane Kennedy at the time because she felt the same way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 20, 2020, 08:58:52 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2020, 08:18:00 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 15, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
11+ plus, supervised it many a time, didn't really agree with it in principal, as its alot of pressure on children at a young age, but u don't dispose of sthing until the new procedure is up and running. Now children do multi exams and not even in their own school environment. That lies solely at Sinn Feins door as they forced through doing away with the test and didn't give a shit if a new process was in place or not.

No, it doesn't. SF made a recommendation after the Burns report. The test was removed by the Labour education secretary Jane Kennedy at the time because she felt the same way.

You're wasting your time redhand, I've provided the links to all the information and it's still the Shinners fault.

The thing is you're right in saying Kennedy did remove the 11+ and then subsequently Ruane tried to introduce profiling but was gerrymandered in her attempts at Stormont.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 20, 2020, 10:20:40 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 20, 2020, 08:58:52 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2020, 08:18:00 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 15, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
11+ plus, supervised it many a time, didn't really agree with it in principal, as its alot of pressure on children at a young age, but u don't dispose of sthing until the new procedure is up and running. Now children do multi exams and not even in their own school environment. That lies solely at Sinn Feins door as they forced through doing away with the test and didn't give a shit if a new process was in place or not.

No, it doesn't. SF made a recommendation after the Burns report. The test was removed by the Labour education secretary Jane Kennedy at the time because she felt the same way.

You're wasting your time redhand, I've provided the links to all the information and it's still the Shinners fault.

The thing is you're right in saying Kennedy did remove the 11+ and then subsequently Ruane tried to introduce profiling but was gerrymandered in her attempts at Stormont.

The amount of ignorance about how the 11+ was abolished is unbelievable, even amongst educated people. We were under direct rule when the 11+ was abolished but somehow its the shinners fault.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on May 20, 2020, 10:30:23 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2020, 10:20:40 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 20, 2020, 08:58:52 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2020, 08:18:00 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 15, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
11+ plus, supervised it many a time, didn't really agree with it in principal, as its alot of pressure on children at a young age, but u don't dispose of sthing until the new procedure is up and running. Now children do multi exams and not even in their own school environment. That lies solely at Sinn Feins door as they forced through doing away with the test and didn't give a shit if a new process was in place or not.




No, it doesn't. SF made a recommendation after the Burns report. The test was removed by the Labour education secretary Jane Kennedy at the time because she felt the same way.

You're wasting your time redhand, I've provided the links to all the information and it's still the Shinners fault.

The thing is you're right in saying Kennedy did remove the 11+ and then subsequently Ruane tried to introduce profiling but was gerrymandered in her attempts at Stormont.

The amount of ignorance about how the 11+ was abolished is unbelievable, even amongst educated people. We were under direct rule when the 11+ was abolished but somehow its the shinners fault.

But we've always been at war with Eurasia. That's what this reads like.

Sinn Fein may have been denied the opportunity to kick the winning point, but they put together the team, led the training, drove the bus, briefed the media and even put up all the bunting.

Now 20 years on, they want no part in that victory.


Rewrite history all you want lads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on May 20, 2020, 01:53:56 PM
Jim Wells and Gavin Robinson trying to rewrite GFA at the minute, saying any Irish identity or citizenship someone born in the North has is merely in addition to their Britishness.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 20, 2020, 01:58:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 20, 2020, 01:53:56 PM
Jim Wells and Gavin Robinson trying to rewrite GFA at the minute, saying any Irish identity or citizenship someone born in the North has is merely in addition to their Britishness.

Whilst the DUP weren't ever there at it's inception.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on May 20, 2020, 06:42:00 PM
SF leading from the front would say within 15 years border will be gone imo.Conor Murphy is a top class Finance Minster who is looking after the disadvantaged.Deirdre Hargey has been even more impressive with the speed she has managed to get on top of her brief.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 20, 2020, 07:58:59 PM
Quote from: skeog on May 20, 2020, 06:42:00 PM
SF leading from the front would say within 15 years border will be gone imo.Conor Murphy is a top class Finance Minster who is looking after the disadvantaged.Deirdre Hargey has been even more impressive with the speed she has managed to get on top of her brief.

JC goes to get popcorn....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 20, 2020, 08:52:28 PM
Quote from: skeog on May 20, 2020, 06:42:00 PM
SF leading from the front would say within 15 years border will be gone imo.Conor Murphy is a top class Finance Minster who is looking after the disadvantaged.Deirdre Hargey has been even more impressive with the speed she has managed to get on top of her brief.

Has to be a wind up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 21, 2020, 08:54:56 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 20, 2020, 07:58:59 PM
Quote from: skeog on May 20, 2020, 06:42:00 PM
SF leading from the front would say within 15 years border will be gone imo.Conor Murphy is a top class Finance Minster who is looking after the disadvantaged.Deirdre Hargey has been even more impressive with the speed she has managed to get on top of her brief.

JC goes to get popcorn....

I would have done alright  ;D

Skeog must be a shinnerbot  8)  (Need to get a balaclava emoji)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 21, 2020, 09:47:43 AM
https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1263181863457357829?s=19
I know it's the Newsletter but you'd be concerned at some of the SF bluffing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on May 21, 2020, 12:04:44 PM
 Just stating you need SF to stand up to the DUP who mightnt be as generous when it comes to helping people in need.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on May 21, 2020, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 20, 2020, 07:58:59 PM
Quote from: skeog on May 20, 2020, 06:42:00 PM
SF leading from the front would say within 15 years border will be gone imo.Conor Murphy is a top class Finance Minster who is looking after the disadvantaged.Deirdre Hargey has been even more impressive with the speed she has managed to get on top of her brief.

JC goes to get popcorn....

She is signing off on stuff her senior civil servants decide on, and I know people that have worked directly with her in Department For Communities would have the opposite opinion of you
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 21, 2020, 12:15:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 20, 2020, 01:53:56 PM
Jim Wells and Gavin Robinson trying to rewrite GFA at the minute, saying any Irish identity or citizenship someone born in the North has is merely in addition to their Britishness.
Gavin Robinson is correct, this has been discussed other threads here.
It is the British Nationality Act 1981 which defines citizenship inside the UK. Afaiu,  that 1981 act would need to be updated to incorporate any GFA clause on nationality or identity or citizenship .

As it stands now, to take a simple example
A NI born footballer qualifies to play for the IFA team only due to their British nationality.
the same footballer qualifies to play for the FAI only  due to their Irish nationality.

The part in this dual nationality issue that puzzles me is that Emma DeSouza  was correctly  recognised as being a British national because she did not go through the process of giving up her British nationality,  however the Home Office did not recognise her as being a British citizen because she did not have a British passport.
They said she had to apply for a passport in order to be regarded as a British citizen.

But the the 1981  British Nationality Act clearly states "A person born in the United Kingdom or in a qualifying territory shall be a British citizen"
It says nothing about having to have a British passport in order to be recognised as a citizen by the Home Office..


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 23, 2020, 11:32:15 PM
Definitely had a soft spot for McGuinness but some of the stuff on Twitter etc making me a bit queasy, Martina Anderson and the likes saying  "our Chieftain" is cringy. The bots are in hypnotic trance tonight i can tell you that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on May 23, 2020, 11:56:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2020, 12:15:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 20, 2020, 01:53:56 PM
Jim Wells and Gavin Robinson trying to rewrite GFA at the minute, saying any Irish identity or citizenship someone born in the North has is merely in addition to their Britishness.
Gavin Robinson is correct, this has been discussed other threads here.
It is the British Nationality Act 1981 which defines citizenship inside the UK. Afaiu,  that 1981 act would need to be updated to incorporate any GFA clause on nationality or identity or citizenship .

As it stands now, to take a simple example
A NI born footballer qualifies to play for the IFA team only due to their British nationality.
the same footballer qualifies to play for the FAI only  due to their Irish nationality.

The part in this dual nationality issue that puzzles me is that Emma DeSouza  was correctly  recognised as being a British national because she did not go through the process of giving up her British nationality,  however the Home Office did not recognise her as being a British citizen because she did not have a British passport.
They said she had to apply for a passport in order to be regarded as a British citizen.

But the the 1981  British Nationality Act clearly states "A person born in the United Kingdom or in a qualifying territory shall be a British citizen"
It says nothing about having to have a British passport in order to be recognised as a citizen by the Home Office..

So basically, the thing in the GFA about being in the north and being an Irish citizen, is absolutely meaningless?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on May 24, 2020, 01:20:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 23, 2020, 11:56:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2020, 12:15:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 20, 2020, 01:53:56 PM
Jim Wells and Gavin Robinson trying to rewrite GFA at the minute, saying any Irish identity or citizenship someone born in the North has is merely in addition to their Britishness.
Gavin Robinson is correct, this has been discussed other threads here.
It is the British Nationality Act 1981 which defines citizenship inside the UK. Afaiu,  that 1981 act would need to be updated to incorporate any GFA clause on nationality or identity or citizenship .

As it stands now, to take a simple example
A NI born footballer qualifies to play for the IFA team only due to their British nationality.
the same footballer qualifies to play for the FAI only  due to their Irish nationality.

The part in this dual nationality issue that puzzles me is that Emma DeSouza  was correctly  recognised as being a British national because she did not go through the process of giving up her British nationality,  however the Home Office did not recognise her as being a British citizen because she did not have a British passport.
They said she had to apply for a passport in order to be regarded as a British citizen.

But the the 1981  British Nationality Act clearly states "A person born in the United Kingdom or in a qualifying territory shall be a British citizen"
It says nothing about having to have a British passport in order to be recognised as a citizen by the Home Office..

So basically, the thing in the GFA about being in the north and being an Irish citizen, is absolutely meaningless?
Of course that part of the GFA has meaning, it is part of a international treaty, it's in the South's constitution, as good as law in Britian and is a foundation to move forward not backwards (the DUP's only gear).

However, the GFA did not give you that right to be an Irish national, you already had that automatic right at birth before the GFA.
And automaticaly being a British national at birth has not changed with the GFA. That's not a choice.
On behalf of her husband, Emma could only apply as a Brit national and present a brit passport to the Home Office. That's the bit that has the DUP jumping up and down about the superiority of the imposed british nationality over the Irish one and  are also saying they never recognised the GFA in the first place ;D
Apparantly, anything that assumes superiority for NI britishness, sends the DUP into a frenzy of good ol' fashioned Orange Order aparthiedism.
Another chapter is being written into the wierd and deranged world of the DUP.

But Emma could have applied as an Irish only national if she gave up her british nationality.
In my unofficial opinion, as it stands now should a Nordie give up their british nationality, their Irish only nationality would just be as equal as a british one.
I surmise that the GFA supports that.
As I have often expressed here, the Nordie who want to be identified as Irish only should give up their British nationality (and it should not cost anything).
Either that or have some change made to the Brit nationality act vis vis nordies who want the right to only use their irish nationality in all aspects of existance in the Empire.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 11:15:22 AM
Sinn Fein can get lost. Fake progessivism in the South, pandering to the theocratic dinosaurs up North. Another Fianna Fail is what they are.

https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/1267733086239948803

Sinn Féin has come out against legalising abortion in cases of non-fatal foetal abnormalities in Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 02, 2020, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 11:15:22 AM
Sinn Fein can get lost. Fake progessivism in the South, pandering to the theocratic dinosaurs up North. Another Fianna Fail is what they are.

https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/1267733086239948803

Sinn Féin has come out against legalising abortion in cases of non-fatal foetal abnormalities in Northern Ireland.

Just right, too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 02, 2020, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 02, 2020, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 11:15:22 AM
Sinn Fein can get lost. Fake progessivism in the South, pandering to the theocratic dinosaurs up North. Another Fianna Fail is what they are.

https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/1267733086239948803

Sinn Féin has come out against legalising abortion in cases of non-fatal foetal abnormalities in Northern Ireland.

Just right, too.

How could you support that legislation? Like if a child has brown eyes can it be aborted? No thumb on one hand? Sticky out ears? What's the threshold?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 02, 2020, 06:18:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2020, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 02, 2020, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 11:15:22 AM
Sinn Fein can get lost. Fake progessivism in the South, pandering to the theocratic dinosaurs up North. Another Fianna Fail is what they are.

https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/1267733086239948803

Sinn Féin has come out against legalising abortion in cases of non-fatal foetal abnormalities in Northern Ireland.

Just right, too.

How could you support that legislation? Like if a child has brown eyes can it be aborted? No thumb on one hand? Sticky out ears? What's the threshold?

You have misinterpreted me. I said it's just right they are supporting changing it from the free for all that was imposed by Westminster.
I would go for much much stricter than that even, but the amendment is better than nothing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2020, 06:39:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 02, 2020, 06:18:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2020, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 02, 2020, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 02, 2020, 11:15:22 AM
Sinn Fein can get lost. Fake progessivism in the South, pandering to the theocratic dinosaurs up North. Another Fianna Fail is what they are.

https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/1267733086239948803

Sinn Féin has come out against legalising abortion in cases of non-fatal foetal abnormalities in Northern Ireland.

Just right, too.

How could you support that legislation? Like if a child has brown eyes can it be aborted? No thumb on one hand? Sticky out ears? What's the threshold?

You have misinterpreted me. I said it's just right they are supporting changing it from the free for all that was imposed by Westminster.
I would go for much much stricter than that even, but the amendment is better than nothing

Sinn Féin are all over the shop on this. They don't care about unborn or anyone else. Just votes
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on June 10, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
Conor Murphy - "The reason we had to go into lockdown, and people should understand this, is because the health service has been under-resourced through austerity cuts over many years" - like what is that even about. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 10, 2020, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 10, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
Conor Murphy - "The reason we had to go into lockdown, and people should understand this, is because the health service has been under-resourced through austerity cuts over many years" - like what is that even about.

Whats he on about. Sure every country in the western world was in lockdown.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on June 10, 2020, 01:33:17 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 10, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
Conor Murphy - "The reason we had to go into lockdown, and people should understand this, is because the health service has been under-resourced through austerity cuts over many years" - like what is that even about.

Jesus.

Better to keep quiet sometimes
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 03:00:08 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 10, 2020, 01:33:17 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 10, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
Conor Murphy - "The reason we had to go into lockdown, and people should understand this, is because the health service has been under-resourced through austerity cuts over many years" - like what is that even about.

Jesus.

Better to keep quiet sometimes

Not quite sure what's he's implying by that.

It wouldn't have mattered if there had been an infinite number of ventilators and ICU bed's people would have died from catching it and the only way to prevent them from catching it is lockdown and social distancing.

Lest said the better at times.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 10, 2020, 03:10:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 10, 2020, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 10, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
Conor Murphy - "The reason we had to go into lockdown, and people should understand this, is because the health service has been under-resourced through austerity cuts over many years" - like what is that even about.

Whats he on about. Sure every country in the western world was in lockdown.

Sweden wasn't. Their deaths stand at around 4,500 and their GDP grew by 0.4%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2020, 04:51:44 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 10, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
Conor Murphy - "The reason we had to go into lockdown, and people should understand this, is because the health service has been under-resourced through austerity cuts over many years" - like what is that even about.

Lol. His party contributed to it with 3 years procurement cuts at Stormont. The man is a tube
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on June 10, 2020, 07:25:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2020, 03:10:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 10, 2020, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 10, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
Conor Murphy - "The reason we had to go into lockdown, and people should understand this, is because the health service has been under-resourced through austerity cuts over many years" - like what is that even about.

Whats he on about. Sure every country in the western world was in lockdown.

Sweden wasn't. Their deaths stand at around 4,500 and their GDP grew by 0.4%.
There is a lot of misinformation floating around re. Sweden.

Yes it's true their govt didn't impose a lockdown, but they still advised voluntary self-isolation, which many Swedes complied with. Plus they introduced some other measures, such as banning gatherings of more than 50 people.

Anyhow, as of April 19th,if  Sweden's infection rate was only slightly higher than that of its Scandinavian neighbours, this may be misleading, since they weren't testing so many people. Moreover, their infection rate at that stage was rising quicker than other Scandinavian countries.

Most worrying of all is that Sweden's confirmed deaths to confirmed cases ratio is more than twice as high as Denmark's and more than five times higher than Norways:
Sweden: 10.93%

Denmark: 4.78%

Norway: 2.12%.

Apparently the above ratio is not so instructive as the overall ratio of covid deaths per million of population, but here too Sweden fares much worse than the other two:
Sweden: 149.61

Denmark: 59.74

Norway: 27.3

Anyhow, since it dates from mid-April, a lot might have changed since then, for better or worse. But I quote the above to illustrate just how dangerous it is to make general comparisons without drilling down much deeper to establish a more complete picture.

(The above stats were taken from this fact-checking article: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/28/facebook-posts/sweden-mostly-open-has-higher-covid-19-death-rate-/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/28/facebook-posts/sweden-mostly-open-has-higher-covid-19-death-rate-/) )



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on June 11, 2020, 07:58:50 AM
Sweden also in the top 5 in the world for deaths per 1m population so hardly the shining light to hold up to the rest of the world!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 23, 2020, 01:03:05 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53144900 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53144900)

If we can't get our way then everyone will suffer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 23, 2020, 01:11:42 PM
SF proposing (in the 26)  that every adult get a €200 voucher and every child a €100 one to be spent in the Hospitality/Tourism sector.
Pearse Doherty says they are ready to talk to "change" parties to try and form a "left led" Government if the Greens reject going in with FF/FG.
He's hoping someone (FF presumably) will allow this with a Confidence and Supply arrangement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on June 23, 2020, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2020, 01:03:05 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53144900 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53144900)

If we can't get our way then everyone will suffer.

Useless bastards, the lot of them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 10:30:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 23, 2020, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2020, 01:03:05 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53144900 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53144900)

If we can't get our way then everyone will suffer.

Useless bastards, the lot of them.
Are some families so poor in NI that they need to have free meals provided in schools?
Or is it that parents forget to feed their kids?
In the meantime is it not possible for parents to either make a sandwich or two,  or instruct their kid how to make a sandwich?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 25, 2020, 10:41:53 PM
Yes, apparently poverty is a real thing.
Such poverty as in families cannot afford to provide their kids with a sandwich?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:00:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 25, 2020, 10:51:57 PM
Yes.
Not just some families with special needs but all families cannot afford to feed their kids?
It's hard to credit that a family with an income of over 20k p/a cannot afford to feed their children?

Why not just have a system to support those families in need who out of their circumstances cannot afford to feed their children?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:20:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 25, 2020, 11:09:56 PM
I'm not sure I follow. Not every family gets free school meals. It is means tested.
Fair enough,
It read it as if all school kids were provided with free meals, mea culpa.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 30, 2020, 12:59:14 PM
Very big crowd at Bobby Storeys funeral. This will give free reign to loyalists to do what they want on the 12th.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 02:52:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 30, 2020, 12:59:14 PM
Very big crowd at Bobby Storeys funeral. This will give free reign to loyalists to do what they want on the 12th.

Sam McBride having some pop at Michelle over todays funeral.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dire Ear on June 30, 2020, 03:24:25 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 30, 2020, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 30, 2020, 12:59:14 PM
Very big crowd at Bobby Storeys funeral. This will give free reign to loyalists to do what they want on the 12th.
Wow, that'll be something different!

;D ;D ;D ;D 8)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 30, 2020, 03:59:04 PM
Are all the travel restrictions lifted in the ROI? It was always going to be difficult to manage numbers but SF didn't even appear to try?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on June 30, 2020, 06:59:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2020, 03:59:04 PM
Are all the travel restrictions lifted in the ROI? It was always going to be difficult to manage numbers but SF didn't even appear to try?

Totally fucked it just when you thought they were doing alright again.

Robin Swann being sure to get stuck in as payback for Michelle undermining him a few months ago.

Sinn Fein a very apt name for today!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on June 30, 2020, 07:28:58 PM
Slap in the face to the people who buried their dead with no fuss and no attendance, or watched their friends and relatives funeral on a webcam.  An Ireland of equals eh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 30, 2020, 07:39:28 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 30, 2020, 07:28:58 PM
Slap in the face to the people who buried their dead with no fuss and no attendance, or watched their friends and relatives funeral on a webcam.  An Ireland of equals eh.

Unbelievably disrespectful action by SF . Hard to fathom really. Arrogance of them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on June 30, 2020, 08:57:31 PM
Some tribute from GA for BS comparing him with MC.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 30, 2020, 09:17:36 PM
Equality

Respect

Integrity

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on June 30, 2020, 09:21:43 PM
Be interesting to see how they try to dress it up. Absolute hypocrites. O'Neill will try and laugh it off but there's no excuse given the policy she's (rightly) forced on people throughout this mess.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on June 30, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Very bad week for Sinn Fein with the crazy decision to nominate Paddy 'The Hooligan' Hoolahan as mayor and then displaying blatant disregard for Social Distancing rules at the funeral today.

Most people will know of somebody who passed away during the last 3 months and whose immediate family or close friends were unable to pay their respects so there should have been no exception made today for Bobby Storey. His mourning should not carry any more weight than any other ordinary citizen and should never have been elevated as such. They deserve whatever criticism comes their way even if many will use it simply to score political points.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on June 30, 2020, 10:20:44 PM
It'll be used to justify an Orangefest in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 10:21:26 PM
Of course, they would criticise Dominic Cummings, but do not apply the same principles to themselves.
And Mary-Lou was claiming that she should have been Taoiseach!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 10:24:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 30, 2020, 09:21:43 PM
Be interesting to see how they try to dress it up. Absolute hypocrites. O'Neill will try and laugh it off but there's no excuse given the policy she's (rightly) forced on people throughout this mess.

From what I seen it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be in fairness.

We buried a great clubman recently and we lined the road from Healys to the pitch, it was marked out and well marshalled.

Bring in the public eye and if everyone was watching she should have sorted it!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 30, 2020, 10:28:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 10:24:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 30, 2020, 09:21:43 PM
Be interesting to see how they try to dress it up. Absolute hypocrites. O'Neill will try and laugh it off but there's no excuse given the policy she's (rightly) forced on people throughout this mess.

From what I seen it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be in fairness.

We buried a great clubman recently and we lined the road from Healys to the pitch, it was marked out and well marshalled.

Bring in the public eye and if everyone was watching she should have sorted it!

But we were all told we couldn't do the same. Hypocrites and arrogance personified
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 11:18:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 30, 2020, 10:28:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 10:24:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 30, 2020, 09:21:43 PM
Be interesting to see how they try to dress it up. Absolute hypocrites. O'Neill will try and laugh it off but there's no excuse given the policy she's (rightly) forced on people throughout this mess.

From what I seen it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be in fairness.

We buried a great clubman recently and we lined the road from Healys to the pitch, it was marked out and well marshalled.

Bring in the public eye and if everyone was watching she should have sorted it!

But we were all told we couldn't do the same. Hypocrites and arrogance personified

The scrutiny was on SF they should have made the effort
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on July 01, 2020, 01:10:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 10:21:26 PM
Of course, they would criticise Dominic Cummings, but do not apply the same principles to themselves.
And Mary-Lou was claiming that she should have been Taoiseach!

"We voted for change"
Nothing else matters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on July 01, 2020, 07:43:59 AM
Quote from: ONeill on June 30, 2020, 10:20:44 PM
It'll be used to justify an Orangefest in 2 weeks.

Absolutely. With marching season coming up SF and the NI assembly could have insisted that they don't go ahead because of health reasons and social distancing.

That's all gone out the window now and SF can't say or do anything to stop them. As usual SF members on twitter refusing to accept they did anything wrong and are actually proud of yesterday
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardtole on July 01, 2020, 09:02:41 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 30, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Very bad week for Sinn Fein with the crazy decision to nominate Paddy 'The Hooligan' Hoolahan as mayor and then displaying blatant disregard for Social Distancing rules at the funeral today.

Most people will know of somebody who passed away during the last 3 months and whose immediate family or close friends were unable to pay their respects so there should have been no exception made today for Bobby Storey. His mourning should not carry any more weight than any other ordinary citizen and should never have been elevated as such. They deserve whatever criticism comes their way even if many will use it simply to score political points.

Couldn't argue with anything you said yc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on July 01, 2020, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: ardtole on July 01, 2020, 09:02:41 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 30, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Very bad week for Sinn Fein with the crazy decision to nominate Paddy 'The Hooligan' Hoolahan as mayor and then displaying blatant disregard for Social Distancing rules at the funeral today.

Most people will know of somebody who passed away during the last 3 months and whose immediate family or close friends were unable to pay their respects so there should have been no exception made today for Bobby Storey. His mourning should not carry any more weight than any other ordinary citizen and should never have been elevated as such. They deserve whatever criticism comes their way even if many will use it simply to score political points.

Couldn't argue with anything you said yc.
I have defended SF at times on here but my sweet baby Jesus what possessed them to allow this blatant disregard for the regulations, calling out the Garda funeral or the Noah vigil is irrelevant. 3 wrongs do not make a right and O'Neill was the one putting pressure on business over lock down. She has illustrated her inability to lead.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on July 01, 2020, 11:46:24 AM
An own goal for SF but they are held to higher standards than others as usual.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on July 01, 2020, 12:07:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on July 01, 2020, 11:46:24 AM
An own goal for SF but they are held to higher standards than others as usual.

I wouldnt say higher standards Angelo - they are held to the standards they were pushing the public to follow?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right, but you just have to laugh about the people making the most noise about this, and the very notion that their concern is for public health.

I didn't see one single complaint about the funeral distancing breaches at Garda Horkan's funeral, which included distancing breaches by at least one FG government minister. Another FG TD, Jennifer Carrol McNeill, was vocally critical on Twitter yesterday about breaches of Social Distancing at yesterday's funeral. This same woman was photographed on the front page of the paper during the week, sitting on a bench right next to another two FG TDs.

Anyone who said f#@k all about Garda Horkan's funeral, but who is jumping up and down about Bobby Storey's funeral, can go do one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 01, 2020, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right, but you just have to laugh about the people making the most noise about this, and the very notion that their concern is for public health.

I didn't see one single complaint about the funeral distancing breaches at Garda Horkan's funeral, which included distancing breaches by at least one FG government minister. Another FG TD, Jennifer Carrol McNeill, was vocally critical on Twitter yesterday about breaches of Social Distancing at yesterday's funeral. This same woman was photographed on the front page of the paper during the week, sitting on a bench right next to another two FG TDs.

Anyone who said f#@k all about Garda Horkan's funeral, but who is jumping up and down about Bobby Storey's funeral, can go do one.

+1 All should be called out and haven't been.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on July 01, 2020, 01:01:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 01, 2020, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right, but you just have to laugh about the people making the most noise about this, and the very notion that their concern is for public health.

I didn't see one single complaint about the funeral distancing breaches at Garda Horkan's funeral, which included distancing breaches by at least one FG government minister. Another FG TD, Jennifer Carrol McNeill, was vocally critical on Twitter yesterday about breaches of Social Distancing at yesterday's funeral. This same woman was photographed on the front page of the paper during the week, sitting on a bench right next to another two FG TDs.

Anyone who said f#@k all about Garda Horkan's funeral, but who is jumping up and down about Bobby Storey's funeral, can go do one.

+1 All should be called out and haven't been.

There is a reason for that. The photos of the Garda funeral weren't as widely shared as the Storey one. I didn't see any until today.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 01, 2020, 01:08:18 PM
Quote from: five points on July 01, 2020, 01:01:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 01, 2020, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right, but you just have to laugh about the people making the most noise about this, and the very notion that their concern is for public health.

I didn't see one single complaint about the funeral distancing breaches at Garda Horkan's funeral, which included distancing breaches by at least one FG government minister. Another FG TD, Jennifer Carrol McNeill, was vocally critical on Twitter yesterday about breaches of Social Distancing at yesterday's funeral. This same woman was photographed on the front page of the paper during the week, sitting on a bench right next to another two FG TDs.

Anyone who said f#@k all about Garda Horkan's funeral, but who is jumping up and down about Bobby Storey's funeral, can go do one.

+1 All should be called out and haven't been.

There is a reason for that. The photos of the Garda funeral weren't as widely shared as the Storey one. I didn't see any until today.

Seriously!? You don't watch the news or flick through the papers. You probably did see pictures but didnt see an issue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 01:12:42 PM
Quote from: five points on July 01, 2020, 01:01:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 01, 2020, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right, but you just have to laugh about the people making the most noise about this, and the very notion that their concern is for public health.

I didn't see one single complaint about the funeral distancing breaches at Garda Horkan's funeral, which included distancing breaches by at least one FG government minister. Another FG TD, Jennifer Carrol McNeill, was vocally critical on Twitter yesterday about breaches of Social Distancing at yesterday's funeral. This same woman was photographed on the front page of the paper during the week, sitting on a bench right next to another two FG TDs.

Anyone who said f#@k all about Garda Horkan's funeral, but who is jumping up and down about Bobby Storey's funeral, can go do one.

+1 All should be called out and haven't been.

There is a reason for that. The photos of the Garda funeral weren't as widely shared as the Storey one. I didn't see any until today.

And why do you think that would be?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on July 01, 2020, 01:20:37 PM
The deflecting whataboutry cavalry have been sent into action.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on July 01, 2020, 01:21:33 PM
It was a very poor judgement call from SF and Michelle O'Neill in particular given how they campaigned vigorously for schools closure (correctly imo) prior to any initial Covid lockdown. This just makes the decision even more bewildering since they were possibly the strongest advocates for locking down at the beginning. So what has changed, we know that the virus has not gone away. They have left themselves wide open for criticism.

Predictably as always in this place it has now turned into an us and them political football and a mud slinging contest ably assisted yet again by Stephen Nolan. It is a bit OTT to suggest that it is a resignation matter but it is a problem entirely of SF's doing and a former Health Minister, no less really should have known better. As a public figure she will have lost all credibility now if she is standing on a podium announcing new lockdown measures or restrictions.   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 01:22:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 01, 2020, 01:20:37 PM
The deflecting whataboutry cavalry have been sent into action.

Deflecting? No.

Whataboutery? Absolutely.

When people pretend to be outraged as social distancing breaches involving SF, they 100% deserve to be called out for their silence on social distancing by FG.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 01, 2020, 01:38:32 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 01:22:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 01, 2020, 01:20:37 PM
The deflecting whataboutry cavalry have been sent into action.

Deflecting? No.

Whataboutery? Absolutely.

When people pretend to be outraged as social distancing breaches involving SF, they 100% deserve to be called out for their silence on social distancing by FG.
+1 The whataboutery defence is usually employed after bouts of selective outrage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 01:57:28 PM
I see Neale Richmond has hopped on the bandwagon, and is making demands that Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty apologise to the Dáil for breaching social distancing at a funeral.

He has not asked his colleague Charlie Flanagan to apologise to the Dáil for breaching social distancing at another funeral.

Maybe he has seen some sort of new research indicating that the coronavirus can only infects people attending funeral of Sinn Féin members or something.

Either that, or he's just another hypocritical mouthpiece.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 02:16:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right, but you just have to laugh about the people making the most noise about this, and the very notion that their concern is for public health.

I didn't see one single complaint about the funeral distancing breaches at Garda Horkan's funeral, which included distancing breaches by at least one FG government minister. Another FG TD, Jennifer Carrol McNeill, was vocally critical on Twitter yesterday about breaches of Social Distancing at yesterday's funeral. This same woman was photographed on the front page of the paper during the week, sitting on a bench right next to another two FG TDs.

Anyone who said f#@k all about Garda Horkan's funeral, but who is jumping up and down about Bobby Storey's funeral, can go do one.

Garda Horkan's funeral was pretty effectively socially distanced, and SF definitely made an effort too. However, the difference was that Vardakar did not travel to Mayo while Mary-Lou and Pearse Doherty did go Belfast, so there was a difference of tone in the two events. SF needed to make a point here about public responsibility and they failed to do and even if Jennifer Carrol McNeil is a hypocrite that in no way justifies SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on July 01, 2020, 02:18:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 01, 2020, 01:38:32 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 01:22:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 01, 2020, 01:20:37 PM
The deflecting whataboutry cavalry have been sent into action.

Deflecting? No.

Whataboutery? Absolutely.

When people pretend to be outraged as social distancing breaches involving SF, they 100% deserve to be called out for their silence on social distancing by FG.
+1 The whataboutery defence is usually employed after bouts of selective outrage.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 02:16:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right, but you just have to laugh about the people making the most noise about this, and the very notion that their concern is for public health.

I didn't see one single complaint about the funeral distancing breaches at Garda Horkan's funeral, which included distancing breaches by at least one FG government minister. Another FG TD, Jennifer Carrol McNeill, was vocally critical on Twitter yesterday about breaches of Social Distancing at yesterday's funeral. This same woman was photographed on the front page of the paper during the week, sitting on a bench right next to another two FG TDs.

Anyone who said f#@k all about Garda Horkan's funeral, but who is jumping up and down about Bobby Storey's funeral, can go do one.

Garda Horkan's funeral was pretty effectively socially distanced, and SF definitely made an effort too. However, the difference was that Vardakar did not travel to Mayo while Mary-Lou and Pearse Doherty did go Belfast, so there was a difference of tone in the two events. SF needed to make a point here about public responsibility and they failed to do and even if Jennifer Carrol McNeil is a hypocrite that in no way justifies SF.

;D
You need to do a bit more of the research activity.

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/e8b26/39303599.ece/AUTOCROP/w800/2020-06-22_new_59801659_I2.JPG)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on July 01, 2020, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 01, 2020, 02:19:30 PM
There are hypocrites on all sides of this. People calling for Cummings to resign but quiet on this, people backing Cummings but cracking up about this. Add in FG too and other episodes no doubt.

There are those who believe that it's a 2 finger salute to their dead relative who mustn't be important enough. To be honest, I don't think it's about their relative at all.
Then, there are those who have now decided that they aren't going to heed any of the guidelines because of this. Foolish, if you ask me.

However, SF fouled the ball here and deserve their turn at taking the pasting. I don't understand how they just walked themselves into this. It just seems so obvious, stupid and needless. I do think that they do take a bit of stick, unfairly at times, more so than other parties and I have defended them on certain things but they do come across as arrogant pricks at times.

The Shinners were totally in the wrong with what transpired at Storeys funeral, goes without saying and being in positions of power (and influence) need to be held to a higher standard than those out protesting with BLM or "minding" statues..

Tough time for everyone in showing their respects to our dead friends and family, but when the time is right their lives should be celebrated, but not now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on July 01, 2020, 02:28:50 PM
I think the thinking from SF here is, what's more important, showing an example or giving our comrade a good send-off? Either way there was always going to be a big crowd lining the route so they clearly thought "fück it" and just went with the latter. As such all criticism is fully justified. I just can't stand selective criticism. Will the same be said of the people out attending that poor young fella's funeral? Unlikely.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 02:16:49 PM
Garda Horkan's funeral was pretty effectively socially distanced, and SF definitely made an effort too. However, the difference was that Vardakar did not travel to Mayo while Mary-Lou and Pearse Doherty did go Belfast, so there was a difference of tone in the two events. SF needed to make a point here about public responsibility and they failed to do and even if Jennifer Carrol McNeil is a hypocrite that in no way justifies SF.

Charlie Flanagan, a FG Government minister (not just any minister, but the Justice Minister), attended Garda Horkan's Funeral, and he breached social distancing at it. So there was no difference in tone. If people's concern is genuinely about public health, then it's worth noting that Coronavirus doesn't concern itself with the "tone" of a gathering of people. If their concern in about politician's not doing what they preach, then why is the outrage restricted to those involved at Bobby Storey's Funeral? A rhetorical question, obviously. We all know why.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbxeBcGXkAA2Co0?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on July 01, 2020, 03:01:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 01:12:42 PM
Quote from: five points on July 01, 2020, 01:01:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 01, 2020, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right, but you just have to laugh about the people making the most noise about this, and the very notion that their concern is for public health.

I didn't see one single complaint about the funeral distancing breaches at Garda Horkan's funeral, which included distancing breaches by at least one FG government minister. Another FG TD, Jennifer Carrol McNeill, was vocally critical on Twitter yesterday about breaches of Social Distancing at yesterday's funeral. This same woman was photographed on the front page of the paper during the week, sitting on a bench right next to another two FG TDs.

Anyone who said f#@k all about Garda Horkan's funeral, but who is jumping up and down about Bobby Storey's funeral, can go do one.

+1 All should be called out and haven't been.

There is a reason for that. The photos of the Garda funeral weren't as widely shared as the Storey one. I didn't see any until today.

And why do you think that would be?

Why do you ask? I'm in agreement with you here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 01, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
Last time I checked FG weren't telling me what to do here in Derry. Michelle O' Neill is. What an arrogant party SF have become.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on July 01, 2020, 03:08:16 PM
Looking at the photos of both funerals there seems to be virtually nobody wearing masks. When I walk around outside here in Brooklyn most people would be wearing masks. Is mask wearing that rare in Ireland at the moment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on July 01, 2020, 03:16:27 PM
I'm not out and about that much but from what I see people wearing masks are very much in the minority though there are definitely a few wearing masks. I also see people here and there with them round their necks but to be fair that is more outdoors and they may put them on for indoors.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 01, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
Last time I checked FG weren't telling me what to do here in Derry. Michelle O' Neill is. What an arrogant party SF have become.

Ah right, sure who cares about down south? Spoken like a true stoop. It's a good job the coronavirus can't cross the border eh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 01, 2020, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 01, 2020, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 01, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
Last time I checked FG weren't telling me what to do here in Derry. Michelle O' Neill is. What an arrogant party SF have become.

Ah right, sure who cares about down south? Spoken like a true stoop. It's a good job the coronavirus can't cross the border eh?

Don't be silly, you know I mean. Why are we comparing MON actions against Charlie Flanagans when no matter how much we like it up here to be different our direction on distancing comes from Stormont. It is from Belfast and not Dublin that we are being told what we can and can not do. Therefore my anger is primarily with SF.
I have told you before also that I am a republican. When will Shinners ever learn that not all republicans are SF, its not really hard to understand. "Stoop"-are you a 16 year old stuck in the 70s.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on July 01, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Michelle and co were wrong on this one. End of. It stinks of hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ed Ricketts on July 01, 2020, 04:22:44 PM
Quote from: dec on July 01, 2020, 03:08:16 PM
Looking at the photos of both funerals there seems to be virtually nobody wearing masks. When I walk around outside here in Brooklyn most people would be wearing masks. Is mask wearing that rare in Ireland at the moment?

Very rare.

But sure you couldn't be seen wearing one when no one else is. You'd be the talk of the town!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 05:03:03 PM
Sure even SF couldn't manage a few masks at their funeral and they had them years ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on July 01, 2020, 05:04:53 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on July 01, 2020, 04:22:44 PM
Quote from: dec on July 01, 2020, 03:08:16 PM
Looking at the photos of both funerals there seems to be virtually nobody wearing masks. When I walk around outside here in Brooklyn most people would be wearing masks. Is mask wearing that rare in Ireland at the moment?

Very rare.

But sure you couldn't be seen wearing one when no one else is. You'd be the talk of the town!

It makes it a lot easier to wear one when most other people have them on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 01, 2020, 10:38:51 PM
Did anyone listen to Martina Anderson, naw hi, hard to listen to
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on July 02, 2020, 02:30:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 05:03:03 PM
Sure even SF couldn't manage a few masks at their funeral and they had them years ago.
Were masks not worn inside the church?  and outside the church the SF delegation  were adequately distant and compliant with all restrictions. It was the local Belfast citizenry who turned up against all advice who crowded the sidewalks. Unlike that funeral for the southern Guard that you referenced as being almost ideal,  where the funeral cortege itself was packed solid like a can of sardines with dignitaries included and not a peep out of anyone about social distancing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on July 02, 2020, 03:38:41 AM
sinn fein are a disgrace they have no right to moan if we see bonfires and  marches on the twelfth but they probably will still moan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 02, 2020, 08:11:19 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2020, 08:07:15 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 02, 2020, 03:38:41 AM
sinn fein are a disgrace they have no right to moan if we see bonfires and  marches on the twelfth but they probably will still moan.
Yeah, they've no right to moan at the displaying of sectarian and racist messages. Or the burning of flags, effigies, posters of themselves, GAA club/county flags, 1000s of pallets and tyres on roads or public property, yards from homes. Or the erection of loyalist paramilitary flags in shared spaces. Or sectarian, triumphalist and intimidating marches through neutral or nationalist areas.

After all, they attended a funeral, the bastards.

As I previously said, they shouldn't have attended but don't give me that ballix.

Ah Jaysis hardstation, if it was any other poster you'd have right to argue, it's Eire90 remember.  :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on July 02, 2020, 10:24:30 AM
Arlene has written to O'Neill asking her to step aside while PSNI investigates.

Forget about the whataboutery and the DUP leveraging it for political gain. The undeniable truth here is that this is an issue SF have creted absolutely needlessly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2020, 10:30:34 AM
And you can have endless whataboutery, but SF did this knowing perfectly well what would happen afterwards, but undermining the public health was worth it to them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 10:31:29 AM
See the SF twitterati have the whataboutery machine in full flow.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on July 02, 2020, 10:52:02 AM
It was a bad misjudgement from SF and as expected their political opponents have revelled in it and sought to use it as an opportunity to gain some political capital. Stephen Nolan has since led the charge and set the news agenda again. I didn't think it would lead to calls for police investigations or resignations but it just goes to show how toxic politics are in this place. A complete shitshow has been unfurled again after a relatively harmonious period for the last 2 months. Some things never change.   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on July 02, 2020, 10:53:26 AM
Yeah I would agree with that HS. They needlessly walked into this one but there are people who no matter what they do will slate them for it. If they found a cure for corona virus there are two boys on this thread who would still slate them for it so it's hard to take anything they say on the subject seriously.

Likewise it's hard to take Arlene asking anyone to step aside seriously after the role in RHI.

Yep a shitshow is exactly what it is yc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 10:55:27 AM
Jumping into the middle of something here...SF are a bit thick at times and should have played this better but the irony of the DUP asking MON to resign is unbelievable. The sh1t the DUP have done and got away with over the years to call for MON's head is hypocritical at it's finest
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on July 02, 2020, 11:02:54 AM
There's no arguing that it's a massive own goal from SF, really silly stuff that leaves themselves open to loads of criticism.

The thing that is very obvious once again, is that both north and south of the border they are held to much higher standards than their political opponents, across all divides. Two rotten state establishments trying to keep their status quo.

Generally the people who bemoan whataboutery are the ones who are walking, talking contradictions who only want to have one eyed commentary on matters, it's fairly easy to spot them here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2020, 11:03:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2020, 10:43:50 AM
There is whataboutery everywhere on this. Indeed, much of the narrative against Michelle O'Neill is based on whataboutery - "What about people who didn't bury their loved ones the way they would have liked to...." So, not only is there selective outrage on the actual incidents, people are selective on the whataboutery too.

Though, I agree with gallsman, they needlessly walked themselves into this. Stupid decision.

Whatever about the language used, I don't think that it is whataboutery to point out that responsible  people did the right thing. Whataboutery  arises when other people's  acting the maggot is used  as a justification for you acting the maggot.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on July 02, 2020, 11:04:03 AM
You'd have to wonder if Nolan was around (and even twitter or social media) at the time of the Good Friday Agreement, would the people have voted it through?

He does nothing but stir up tensions and keep the sectarian flames burning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on July 02, 2020, 11:05:33 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 02, 2020, 11:03:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2020, 10:43:50 AM
There is whataboutery everywhere on this. Indeed, much of the narrative against Michelle O'Neill is based on whataboutery - "What about people who didn't bury their loved ones the way they would have liked to...." So, not only is there selective outrage on the actual incidents, people are selective on the whataboutery too.

Though, I agree with gallsman, they needlessly walked themselves into this. Stupid decision.

Whatever about the language used, I don't think that it is whataboutery to point out that responsible  people did the right thing. Whataboutery  arises when other people's  acting the maggot is used  as a justification for you acting the maggot.

Who is justifying it?

I think people have admitted SF made a huge own goal here.

They are quite entitled to point out the differing reactions when others are guilty of the same transgressions though and screaming whataboutery at that point just show that the outrage is a little insincere.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 11:06:18 AM
There is no accountability anymore. You could literally set kittens on fire and you'd be reelected and of course backed by your own party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2020, 11:10:01 AM
Time ye lads up North stopped listening to that Nolan yoke.
As for DUPUDA calling for O'Neill to resign....
Hypocrisy of the highest order and one certain way of making sure she doesn't resign.
She should never have been made SF 6Co leader in the first place but sin scéal eile.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on July 02, 2020, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on July 02, 2020, 11:02:54 AM
There's no arguing that it's a massive own goal from SF, really silly stuff that leaves themselves open to loads of criticism.

The thing that is very obvious once again, is that both north and south of the border they are held to much higher standards than their political opponents, across all divides. Two rotten state establishments trying to keep their status quo.

Generally the people who bemoan whataboutery are the ones who are walking, talking contradictions who only want to have one eyed commentary on matters, it's fairly easy to spot them here.

That's exactly it. It all comes down to looking after themselves, their seats, their party and their big fat pay cheque.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on July 02, 2020, 11:52:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2020, 11:10:01 AM
Time ye lads up North stopped listening to that Nolan yoke.
As for DUPUDA calling for O'Neill to resign....
Hypocrisy of the highest order and one certain way of making sure she doesn't resign.
She should never have been made SF 6Co leader in the first place but sin scéal eile.

Nolan is a blight on society in the North and it appeals to the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately this denominator has a vote and this is what keeps the two parties in power.

The only reason the DUP are now calling for resignation is to keep their voters onside - they know it will never happen but have to be seen to be calling themmuns out.

Works both ways mind you
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mourne Red on July 02, 2020, 12:27:01 PM
Quote from: Taylor on July 02, 2020, 11:52:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2020, 11:10:01 AM
Time ye lads up North stopped listening to that Nolan yoke.
As for DUPUDA calling for O'Neill to resign....
Hypocrisy of the highest order and one certain way of making sure she doesn't resign.
She should never have been made SF 6Co leader in the first place but sin scéal eile.

Nolan is a blight on society in the North and it appeals to the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately this denominator has a vote and this is what keeps the two parties in power.

The only reason the DUP are now calling for resignation is to keep their voters onside - they know it will never happen but have to be seen to be calling themmuns out.

Works both ways mind you

Yup, they've had a bad couple of elections so need to grab the unionist vote back to them. Was ridiculously stupid from Sinn Fein though - Marching/12th season is upon us you would have though someone in the party would have said "You know what guys, maybe attending isn;t the smartest idea" It's a stick to beat them with if they complain about social distancing etc once the bands inevitability go out now.

They need to be whiter than white to stop opposition parties painting them with the provo stick.. The funeral was one, yes commemorate if they feel they need to but do it once social distancing/lockdown rules are over. And their Social Media posts need to stop using the word comrade it comes across very military.

The battlefield is no longer in the street it is in the offices of Stormont and Dail
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on July 02, 2020, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on July 02, 2020, 11:04:03 AM
You'd have to wonder if Nolan was around (and even twitter or social media) at the time of the Good Friday Agreement, would the people have voted it through?

He does nothing but stir up tensions and keep the sectarian flames burning.

That's a very good question. The whole premise of his show is built around the sectarian arguments that he helps to inflame. Yes there are societal issues that are worthy of public scrutiny but this row over social distancing has almost now turned into another us v them argument in a search for the moral high ground because of broadcasters like Nolan exacerbating an issue for their own careers.

The social distancing row around SF was certainly newsworthy enough  to be a story but it is his blatant sensationalising and attempt at headline grabbing which helps to blow a bad judgement call into a full blown crisis and help stir up tensions.       
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 02, 2020, 01:03:09 PM
Get on twitter for 'Whataboutery fest'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.

Ohh its MON's fault...When the restrictions were lifted last week there was always gonna be application to march irrespective if MON had been buried herself. Don't kid yourself
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on July 02, 2020, 01:27:28 PM
Everybody thinks their actions are justifiable, Cummings, Shinners, BLM,  Liverpool supporters, beach goers, even the Garda's funeral. All have screwed the pooch. The system only works when there's no exceptions, public compliance is on very thin ice imo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on July 02, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.

Ohh its MON's fault...When the restrictions were lifted last week there was always gonna be application to march irrespective if MON had been buried herself. Don't kid yourself
If they want to march, let them at it, in their own areas of course. I was never a fan of O'Neill becoming DFM/6 Co Leader in the first place, but she had redeemed herself in my book with the handling of Covid, until the Storey funeral. Whilst it may be no harm was done and they were socially distant it was against the f**king rules. I didn't hug my kids for 3 months, I couldn't call to see them for a cup of tea even...for what?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on July 02, 2020, 01:52:00 PM
I can't help but think that with pubs (restaurants) opening tomorrow, the social distancing will be all but out the window after a few pints.

Same with sport and training having been opened up in the last week.

People mixing has been increasing steadily and it's not at all far off normal levels currently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dunsilly King on July 02, 2020, 01:56:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 02, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.

Ohh its MON's fault...When the restrictions were lifted last week there was always gonna be application to march irrespective if MON had been buried herself. Don't kid yourself
If they want to march, let them at it, in their own areas of course. I was never a fan of O'Neill becoming DFM/6 Co Leader in the first place, but she had redeemed herself in my book with the handling of Covid, until the Storey funeral. Whilst it may be no harm was done and they were socially distant it was against the f**king rules. I didn't hug my kids for 3 months, I couldn't call to see them for a cup of tea even...for what?

apples if you can't figure out why you couldn't hug your kids 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks or 10 weeks ago in comparison to this week, your are as thick as champ.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on July 02, 2020, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: Dunsilly King on July 02, 2020, 01:56:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 02, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.

Ohh its MON's fault...When the restrictions were lifted last week there was always gonna be application to march irrespective if MON had been buried herself. Don't kid yourself
If they want to march, let them at it, in their own areas of course. I was never a fan of O'Neill becoming DFM/6 Co Leader in the first place, but she had redeemed herself in my book with the handling of Covid, until the Storey funeral. Whilst it may be no harm was done and they were socially distant it was against the f**king rules. I didn't hug my kids for 3 months, I couldn't call to see them for a cup of tea even...for what?

apples if you can't figure out why you couldn't hug your kids 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks or 10 weeks ago in comparison to this week, your are as thick as champ.

You're, it is you're not your.

If you are going to point out anyone being thick as champ at least try and not appear that way yourself.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dunsilly King on July 02, 2020, 02:01:11 PM
Its well known you Down boyo's are arrogant twats  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on July 02, 2020, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on July 02, 2020, 01:52:00 PM
I can't help but think that with pubs (restaurants) opening tomorrow, the social distancing will be all but out the window after a few pints.

Same with sport and training having been opened up in the last week.

People mixing has been increasing steadily and it's not at all far off normal levels currently.

People meeting is fine. I think we've got to a stage now where we all acknowledge social distancing - no handshakes, hugs etc that normally might have had before.

The biggest worry for me is airports. The levels are quite low in the community now but if people are going to airports mixing with thousands of people, getting on a plane where you're with a few hundred people for a number of hours in a confined space and then hopping on a shuttle bus after that. That's the real danger.

Government should be banning international travel and taking the decision out of people's hands because some couldn't give a toss about the risk and extra exposure and the millions of people extra interactions will take place between as a result. Some people are going to act selfishly so those in charge need to remove the discretionary choice about it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 03:36:20 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.

Ohh its MON's fault...When the restrictions were lifted last week there was always gonna be application to march irrespective if MON had been buried herself. Don't kid yourself

Think you're missing the point. There would've been surely but a lot could've been turned down on SD grounds. Now that argument is fucked.
Anyway I actually don't really care. If there is Covid circulating we'll see evidence of it in Belfast after this past few days. If not, I reckon it's full pelt ahead. I myself will be asking employees will be asked to come back to the office full time. Other businesses will do the same. It's a green light for everything back to normal, which I have been calling for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on July 02, 2020, 03:41:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 03:36:20 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.

Ohh its MON's fault...When the restrictions were lifted last week there was always gonna be application to march irrespective if MON had been buried herself. Don't kid yourself

Think you're missing the point. There would've been surely but a lot could've been turned down on SD grounds. Now that argument is fucked.
Anyway I actually don't really care. If there is Covid circulating we'll see evidence of it in Belfast after this past few days. If not, I reckon it's full pelt ahead. I myself will be asking employees will be asked to come back to the office full time. Other businesses will do the same. It's a green light for everything back to normal, which I have been calling for.

So you're complaining about MON not social distancing against a disease that you are highly sceptical of, claiming that it is giving the green light for normality to resume - which you have been campaigning for - and you're still yapping?   8)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 03:45:07 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on July 02, 2020, 03:41:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 03:36:20 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.

Ohh its MON's fault...When the restrictions were lifted last week there was always gonna be application to march irrespective if MON had been buried herself. Don't kid yourself

Think you're missing the point. There would've been surely but a lot could've been turned down on SD grounds. Now that argument is fucked.
Anyway I actually don't really care. If there is Covid circulating we'll see evidence of it in Belfast after this past few days. If not, I reckon it's full pelt ahead. I myself will be asking employees will be asked to come back to the office full time. Other businesses will do the same. It's a green light for everything back to normal, which I have been calling for.

So you're complaining about MON not social distancing against a disease that you are highly sceptical of, claiming that it is giving the green light for normality to resume - which you have been campaigning for - and you're still yapping?   8)

She was responsible for drafting these draconian measures which she then went out and broke!
Fact is 500 people dead. Over 50% in care homes. Vast majority 70+ with underlying health problems. This isn't a reason to shut down the entire economy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on July 02, 2020, 04:12:44 PM
Tommrow night will be probably be  sh1t show ill not be participating in any of it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on July 02, 2020, 04:55:11 PM
Varadkar, the guy who was out sunbathing topless in a public park with his mates, at a time when the virus was at a much, much more infectious stage, is now jumping in having a pop at MON.

You really couldn't write this stuff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on July 02, 2020, 05:07:08 PM
If SF are going to spoof their way out of this, please spare us Martina Anderson.  Heard her today in an Assembly Committee, she's really not the answer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on July 02, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 02, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.

Ohh its MON's fault...When the restrictions were lifted last week there was always gonna be application to march irrespective if MON had been buried herself. Don't kid yourself
If they want to march, let them at it, in their own areas of course. I was never a fan of O'Neill becoming DFM/6 Co Leader in the first place, but she had redeemed herself in my book with the handling of Covid, until the Storey funeral. Whilst it may be no harm was done and they were socially distant it was against the f**king rules. I didn't hug my kids for 3 months, I couldn't call to see them for a cup of tea even...for what?

Because it was the right thing to do. And as the virus is still about, it's still the right thing to do.

Forget about what Worzel Gummidge says, or Stormont or Dublin. Use your own common sense about what you know is safe to do and what isn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 02, 2020, 07:41:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 03:45:07 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on July 02, 2020, 03:41:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 03:36:20 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Over 70 applications to the Parades Commission in last 48hrs for band parades on the Twefth. Thanks Michelle. More brains in a false face.

Ohh its MON's fault...When the restrictions were lifted last week there was always gonna be application to march irrespective if MON had been buried herself. Don't kid yourself

Think you're missing the point. There would've been surely but a lot could've been turned down on SD grounds. Now that argument is fucked.
Anyway I actually don't really care. If there is Covid circulating we'll see evidence of it in Belfast after this past few days. If not, I reckon it's full pelt ahead. I myself will be asking employees will be asked to come back to the office full time. Other businesses will do the same. It's a green light for everything back to normal, which I have been calling for.

So you're complaining about MON not social distancing against a disease that you are highly sceptical of, claiming that it is giving the green light for normality to resume - which you have been campaigning for - and you're still yapping?   8)

She was responsible for drafting these draconian measures which she then went out and broke!
Fact is 500 people dead. Over 50% in care homes. Vast majority 70+ with underlying health problems. This isn't a reason to shut down the entire economy.
Posting the covid mortality rate after an extended lockdown in order to argue that there didn't need to be such a lockdown?

Hmmm.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on July 02, 2020, 08:04:53 PM
The DUPers, Stoopers, Fine Gaelers and Fianna Fáilers among others all out in force today. The hypocrisy. Didn't see the same outrage over Charlie Flanagan at the Garda funeral or calling for arrests due mass gatherings at the wee lads funeral but sure anything to get a dig in at SF.
SF will be going nowhere. Arlene didnt step aside over RHI, they have a quare neck on them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: An Watcher on July 02, 2020, 08:26:08 PM
Snarlene half a billion Foster didn't step aside. A mountain out of a molehill. The twelfth is coming up so they'll need something to fall back on. Calum Eastwood has really gone down in my estimation. Not that he was high up in it anyway
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on July 02, 2020, 08:36:31 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 02, 2020, 08:04:53 PM
The DUPers, Stoopers, Fine Gaelers and Fianna Fáilers among others all out in force today. The hypocrisy. Didn't see the same outrage over Charlie Flanagan at the Garda funeral or calling for arrests due mass gatherings at the wee lads funeral but sure anything to get a dig in at SF.
SF will be going nowhere. Arlene didnt step aside over RHI, they have a quare neck on them.

Why would she? That would mean she was admitting she was at fault, her and her cronies to blame for squandering millions. No chance. She'll look out for herself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 08:45:58 PM
Whataboutery overload.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 02, 2020, 08:57:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on July 02, 2020, 05:07:08 PM
If SF are going to spoof their way out of this, please spare us Martina Anderson.  Heard her today in an Assembly Committee, she's really not the answer.

She is redner material. A bit like the Auntie out of Derry girls, but not as likeable
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on July 02, 2020, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on July 02, 2020, 04:55:11 PM
Varadkar, the guy who was out sunbathing topless in a public park with his mates, at a time when the virus was at a much, much more infectious stage, is now jumping in having a pop at MON.

You really couldn't write this stuff.

He did this at a time when gatherings of up to 6 (?) were allowed to meet in public. He didn't break the rules.

MON did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zazz on July 03, 2020, 01:03:41 AM
https://imgur.com/9F6KQPJ
(https://i.imgur.com/9F6KQPJl.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on July 03, 2020, 08:01:19 AM
Quote from: Zazz on July 03, 2020, 01:03:41 AM
https://imgur.com/9F6KQPJ
(https://i.imgur.com/9F6KQPJl.jpg)

Putting the fun into funeral.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on July 03, 2020, 09:23:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 08:45:58 PM
Whataboutery overload.

Dosed with your own hypocrisy overload.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on July 03, 2020, 09:26:09 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 02, 2020, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on July 02, 2020, 04:55:11 PM
Varadkar, the guy who was out sunbathing topless in a public park with his mates, at a time when the virus was at a much, much more infectious stage, is now jumping in having a pop at MON.

You really couldn't write this stuff.

He did this at a time when gatherings of up to 6 (?) were allowed to meet in public. He didn't break the rules.

MON did.

He did at a time when the virus was rampant and he did to go get an afternoon out in the sun with his pals.

You could certainly nitpick to find rules he broke and definitely the people he was with broke so it takes some brass neck of him to come out getting up on his pedestal to pontificate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on July 03, 2020, 09:51:16 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on July 02, 2020, 05:07:08 PM
If SF are going to spoof their way out of this, please spare us Martina Anderson.  Heard her today in an Assembly Committee, she's really not the answer.

dire, just dire.

The republican family needed you there....

Martina is now a hindrance to the goal she hopes to achieve.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on July 03, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
Is there any chance the whole funeral thing was a calculated move to wind up the DUP and topple Stormont again?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tintin25 on July 03, 2020, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: michaelg on July 03, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
Is there any chance the whole funeral thing was a calculated move to wind up the DUP and topple Stormont again?

Near made me sick when I seen that!

Was there ever this much controversy when Martin McGuiness and Ian Paisley were in charge?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 03, 2020, 12:32:34 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2020, 09:51:16 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on July 02, 2020, 05:07:08 PM
If SF are going to spoof their way out of this, please spare us Martina Anderson.  Heard her today in an Assembly Committee, she's really not the answer.

dire, just dire.

The republican family needed you there....

Martina is now a hindrance to the goal she hopes to achieve.

Agreed
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 03, 2020, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: michaelg on July 03, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
Is there any chance the whole funeral thing was a calculated move to wind up the DUP and topple Stormont again?

I dont think the DUP can afford to let it topple again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on July 03, 2020, 12:44:13 PM
Quote from: michaelg on July 03, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
Is there any chance the whole funeral thing was a calculated move to wind up the DUP and topple Stormont again?

Don't think so.

Storey was a died in the wool Shinner and they were determined to give him the send off they believed he deserved and given to other volunteers over the years and to hell with the consequences.

DUP aren't exactly in a position to claim the moral high ground considering their dithering in closing the place down at the start.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardtole on July 03, 2020, 12:51:14 PM
I think the criticism sinn fein receive from political opponents like the dup, ff, fg etc will be water off a ducks back.

But is there a likely backlash from sf voters who buried loved ones in the past few months and had to adhere to the restrictions that were imposed.

Fortunately I wasnt in that position personally in recent times but if I had to have been, I'd imagine I would be furious.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on July 03, 2020, 01:03:37 PM
Who the f**k takes a selfie at a funeral??

f**k sake like, it's not a birthday party they're attending.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on July 03, 2020, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 03, 2020, 12:51:14 PM
I think the criticism sinn fein receive from political opponents like the dup, ff, fg etc will be water off a ducks back.

But is there a likely backlash from sf voters who buried loved ones in the past few months and had to adhere to the restrictions that were imposed.

Fortunately I wasnt in that position personally in recent times but if I had to have been, I'd imagine I would be furious.

Was thinking about that and how voters would react.

A similar scenario would be in England - despite Bojo causing 1000's of lives with his handling of Covid will he still get voted in or will his support base leave him (in particular those who have lost loved ones)?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on July 03, 2020, 01:59:47 PM
One thing the DUP has taught us about NI is that it takes an extraordinary effort for them to lose votes.

Much as Im disgusted with Sinn Fein's abrasive negligence at Storey's funeral, it just doesn't strike me as a vote loser for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 02:29:26 PM
Michelle and Marylou doing a lot of apologising today.
I expect the fcukwit Orange bands and their camp followers will break every Covid rule in the book over the weekend 11th/13th and make SF's breaches look pretty minor.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 03, 2020, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 02:29:26 PM
Michelle and Marylou doing a lot of apologising today.
I expect the fcukwit Orange bands and their camp followers will break every Covid rule in the book over the weekend 11th/13th and make SF's breaches look pretty minor.

They are going to anyway, regardless.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on July 03, 2020, 03:09:26 PM
I was reading something on twitter today saying that the four ports had notified stormont preparations have started for border checks and maybe this is part of why the DUP were being so outraged by the social distancing thing..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on July 03, 2020, 03:31:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2020, 03:09:26 PM
I was reading something on twitter today saying that the four ports had notified stormont preparations have started for border checks and maybe this is part of why the DUP were being so outraged by the social distancing thing..

Look at themmuns over there when there's border infrastructure planning is getting underway at the sea ports in Larne, Belfast, Derry and Warrenpoint.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 03:34:01 PM
I see an agreement drafted to allow lorries with Irish food products which travel through England use "green lanes" at Continental ports.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 03, 2020, 04:53:26 PM
The thing that really makes me laugh is that SF's position was so pro lockdown. Close schools, close cemeteries, close pubs and keeping them closed when the DUP wanted to open them. Whatever about all the whataboutery and other funerals etc that was their hard position. Was it for show or did they really care about the public's health?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2020, 05:52:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2020, 04:53:26 PM
The thing that really makes me laugh is that SF's position was so pro lockdown. Close schools, close cemeteries, close pubs and keeping them closed when the DUP wanted to open them. Whatever about all the whataboutery and other funerals etc that was their hard position. Was it for show or did they really care about the public's health?

They cared about the teachers! The ones who'll be at most risk...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 03, 2020, 05:58:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2020, 04:53:26 PM
The thing that really makes me laugh is that SF's position was so pro lockdown. Close schools, close cemeteries, close pubs and keeping them closed when the DUP wanted to open them. Whatever about all the whataboutery and other funerals etc that was their hard position. Was it for show or did they really care about the public's health?

Look, I was dye in the wool SF, then I started working closely with these guys in community sector', skullduggery behind the scenes is completely different from what we see in the media. Arrogance is widespread within the party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on July 03, 2020, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 03, 2020, 05:58:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2020, 04:53:26 PM
The thing that really makes me laugh is that SF's position was so pro lockdown. Close schools, close cemeteries, close pubs and keeping them closed when the DUP wanted to open them. Whatever about all the whataboutery and other funerals etc that was their hard position. Was it for show or did they really care about the public's health?

Look, I was dye in the wool SF, then I started working closely with these guys in community sector', skullduggery behind the scenes is completely different from what we see in the media. Arrogance is widespread within the party

Which begs the question: do you still vote for them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 03, 2020, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 03, 2020, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 03, 2020, 05:58:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2020, 04:53:26 PM
The thing that really makes me laugh is that SF's position was so pro lockdown. Close schools, close cemeteries, close pubs and keeping them closed when the DUP wanted to open them. Whatever about all the whataboutery and other funerals etc that was their hard position. Was it for show or did they really care about the public's health?

Look, I was dye in the wool SF, then I started working closely with these guys in community sector', skullduggery behind the scenes is completely different from what we see in the media. Arrogance is widespread within the party

Which begs the question: do you still vote for them?

No. Voted independent and Aontú . Seán Carr and Anne Mc Closkey.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 08:31:40 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/a-rock-and-a-hard-place-sinn-feins-past-and-future-meet-at-bobby-storeys-funeral-1009082.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on July 03, 2020, 09:52:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2020, 02:51:08 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 03, 2020, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 02:29:26 PM
Michelle and Marylou doing a lot of apologising today.
I expect the fcukwit Orange bands and their camp followers will break every Covid rule in the book over the weekend 11th/13th and make SF's breaches look pretty minor.

They are going to anyway, regardless.
Exactly. There has been a campaign for weeks that lockdown is over etc from defenders of Kulture. All geared towards the Glorious 12th celebrations. This is an interesting development in that regard. They can't let the fenians off the hook but at the same time, they have a week to fade the total outrage and "devastation to other families" into doing the same, if not worse themselves.

yet again, the default action is to check what the other crowd are at.
If everybody took that attitude, nobody would practice social distancing or wear a face mask because "look at him, he's not wearing one so why should I"
Grow up ffs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 03, 2020, 10:38:34 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on July 03, 2020, 09:52:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2020, 02:51:08 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 03, 2020, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 02:29:26 PM
Michelle and Marylou doing a lot of apologising today.
I expect the fcukwit Orange bands and their camp followers will break every Covid rule in the book over the weekend 11th/13th and make SF's breaches look pretty minor.

They are going to anyway, regardless.
Exactly. There has been a campaign for weeks that lockdown is over etc from defenders of Kulture. All geared towards the Glorious 12th celebrations. This is an interesting development in that regard. They can't let the fenians off the hook but at the same time, they have a week to fade the total outrage and "devastation to other families" into doing the same, if not worse themselves.

yet again, the default action is to check what the other crowd are at.
If everybody took that attitude, nobody would practice social distancing or wear a face mask because "look at him, he's not wearing one so why should I"
Grow up ffs

Exactly. Sticking pics up of DUP members at gatherings, so what, sack them too but don't use it as excuse for MON
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on July 03, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
So MON, as SF leader in north attends the funeral of a leading figure in the IRA who played a major part in bringing the organisation along into in the peace process .... shocking

MON followed regulations and guidelines in attending the funeral ... shocking

Massive crowds turned out in West Belfast for the funeral of one of their own ... shocking

Can't believe this story has garnered so much discussion.  I suggest that no one should take their lead from the tabloid journalism of Stephen Nolan. 

If MON was to resign, and SF refused to nominate a successor, biggest losers would be the DUP, they must have very short memories.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on July 03, 2020, 11:58:07 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
So MON, as SF leader in north attends the funeral of a leading figure in the IRA who played a major part in bringing the organisation along into in the peace process .... shocking

MON followed regulations and guidelines in attending the funeral ... shocking

Massive crowds turned out in West Belfast for the funeral of one of their own ... shocking

Can't believe this story has garnered so much discussion.  I suggest that no one should take their lead from the tabloid journalism of Stephen Nolan. 

If MON was to resign, and SF refused to nominate a successor, biggest losers would be the DUP, they must have very short memories.

I don't give a shite!!

This is the Cummings thing all over again one rule for them and another for everyone else. Families not allowed at funerals for 4 months but a big IRA man dies so it's ok for the leader to go to that while others suffered?

Bullshit! I couldn't care less what the DUP have said or what loyalists will do she's plain wrong and her apology wasn't worth a f**k. Those defending her are brainwashed dickheads stuck in the past!!

What she has done the past few days is not leadership it's a far cry from it!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 04, 2020, 01:09:01 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2020, 12:26:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 03, 2020, 10:38:34 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on July 03, 2020, 09:52:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2020, 02:51:08 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 03, 2020, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 02:29:26 PM
Michelle and Marylou doing a lot of apologising today.
I expect the fcukwit Orange bands and their camp followers will break every Covid rule in the book over the weekend 11th/13th and make SF's breaches look pretty minor.

They are going to anyway, regardless.
Exactly. There has been a campaign for weeks that lockdown is over etc from defenders of Kulture. All geared towards the Glorious 12th celebrations. This is an interesting development in that regard. They can't let the fenians off the hook but at the same time, they have a week to fade the total outrage and "devastation to other families" into doing the same, if not worse themselves.

yet again, the default action is to check what the other crowd are at.
If everybody took that attitude, nobody would practice social distancing or wear a face mask because "look at him, he's not wearing one so why should I"
Grow up ffs

Exactly. Sticking pics up of DUP members at gatherings, so what, sack them too but don't use it as excuse for MON
Kindly point me to where I did that, thanks.

Not referring to you a chara at all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on July 04, 2020, 02:34:23 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 03, 2020, 11:58:07 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
So MON, as SF leader in north attends the funeral of a leading figure in the IRA who played a major part in bringing the organisation along into in the peace process .... shocking

MON followed regulations and guidelines in attending the funeral ... shocking

Massive crowds turned out in West Belfast for the funeral of one of their own ... shocking

Can't believe this story has garnered so much discussion.  I suggest that no one should take their lead from the tabloid journalism of Stephen Nolan. 

If MON was to resign, and SF refused to nominate a successor, biggest losers would be the DUP, they must have very short memories.

I don't give a shite!!

This is the Cummings thing all over again one rule for them and another for everyone else. Families not allowed at funerals for 4 months but a big IRA man dies so it's ok for the leader to go to that while others suffered?

Bullshit! I couldn't care less what the DUP have said or what loyalists will do she's plain wrong and her apology wasn't worth a f**k. Those defending her are brainwashed dickheads stuck in the past!!

What she has done the past few days is not leadership it's a far cry from it!

Maybe you've been brainwashed by Stephen Nolan and the media hysteria ... MON attended a funeral and adhered to regulations ... the fact that thousands lined the streets, in social distancing formation, what did you want MON specifically to do differently?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on July 04, 2020, 07:01:07 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
So MON, as SF leader in north attends the funeral of a leading figure in the IRA who played a major part in bringing the organisation along into in the peace process .... shocking

MON followed regulations and guidelines in attending the funeral ... shocking

Massive crowds turned out in West Belfast for the funeral of one of their own ... shocking

Can't believe this story has garnered so much discussion.  I suggest that no one should take their lead from the tabloid journalism of Stephen Nolan. 

If MON was to resign, and SF refused to nominate a successor, biggest losers would be the DUP, they must have very short memories.

I think the issue is the amount of planning that went into the funeral. They expected a huge crowd and got it. When you have people on Twitter like Squinter questioning SF then you know you have made a big mistake. Unionists spotted this and hence upped their rage. I don't think MO'N should step down but I cannot see an easy way out for SF to defuse this one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on July 04, 2020, 07:20:53 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
So MON, as SF leader in north attends the funeral of a leading figure in the IRA who played a major part in bringing the organisation along into in the peace process .... shocking

MON followed regulations and guidelines in attending the funeral ... shocking

Massive crowds turned out in West Belfast for the funeral of one of their own ... shocking

Can't believe this story has garnered so much discussion.  I suggest that no one should take their lead from the tabloid journalism of Stephen Nolan. 

If MON was to resign, and SF refused to nominate a successor, biggest losers would be the DUP, they must have very short memories.
MON should have apologised at the outset.
Let's be clear bobby storey was always given what he had done for the republican cause going to be a difficulty for her.
Whether shinners like it or not  thought you can't demand the rank and file to adhere to one thing and then do another , no matter what .
My two brothers who are both shinners to the back bone were  really fked off as good people around our way we're buried in awful circumstances with only 12 in the chapel.
If the apology had been made earlier this would have blown over.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on July 04, 2020, 10:00:34 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 04, 2020, 02:34:23 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 03, 2020, 11:58:07 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
So MON, as SF leader in north attends the funeral of a leading figure in the IRA who played a major part in bringing the organisation along into in the peace process .... shocking

MON followed regulations and guidelines in attending the funeral ... shocking

Massive crowds turned out in West Belfast for the funeral of one of their own ... shocking

Can't believe this story has garnered so much discussion.  I suggest that no one should take their lead from the tabloid journalism of Stephen Nolan. 

If MON was to resign, and SF refused to nominate a successor, biggest losers would be the DUP, they must have very short memories.

I don't give a shite!!

This is the Cummings thing all over again one rule for them and another for everyone else. Families not allowed at funerals for 4 months but a big IRA man dies so it's ok for the leader to go to that while others suffered?

Bullshit! I couldn't care less what the DUP have said or what loyalists will do she's plain wrong and her apology wasn't worth a f**k. Those defending her are brainwashed dickheads stuck in the past!!

What she has done the past few days is not leadership it's a far cry from it!

Maybe you've been brainwashed by Stephen Nolan and the media hysteria ... MON attended a funeral and adhered to regulations ... the fact that thousands lined the streets, in social distancing formation, what did you want MON specifically to do differently?

Honestly? She should not have went. A commemoration could have been organised for later in the summer. She is not a family member. Should not have been in the chapel at all. 10 allowed for the average Joe 120 for Bobby. Call it fir for what it is. Arrogance. We will do what we want because we can. I've always defended SF but this is just wrong. It smacks of hypocrisy. How can you not see that? She blatantly broke the rules she set. Fact.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 04, 2020, 10:11:45 AM
A detailed list of the breaches of Executive legislation / policy in this article by Sam McBride: https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/sam-mcbride-despite-sinn-feins-trumpian-claims-storey-funeral-involved-least-10-breaches-public-health-advice-2903922
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on July 04, 2020, 10:17:29 AM
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-takeover-of-roselawn-for-bobby-storeys-cremation-sparks-anger-39339108.html

Just breathtaking arrogance. Mary Lou caught spoofing about the PSNI involvement in the thing too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 04, 2020, 10:23:47 AM
SF could have stated that they would hold a commemoration when all restrictions had been removed. They could have called for people not to gather. Now some would gather anyway, but SF would have acted responsibly and the benefits of that would have been seen in better adherence to the public health measures.

They knew all this, but decided to do a Cummings anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 04, 2020, 10:27:23 AM
There was a few big enough funerals that didn't get the headlines, though in fairness those particular ones I'm talking about there was no ministers at them, some MLA's though but this was always going to be the one the DUP was waiting on.

Though how Arlene can ask for the deputy to step aside after her own handling of the boiler fiasco is beyond me.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on July 04, 2020, 10:45:22 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 04, 2020, 02:34:23 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 03, 2020, 11:58:07 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
So MON, as SF leader in north attends the funeral of a leading figure in the IRA who played a major part in bringing the organisation along into in the peace process .... shocking

MON followed regulations and guidelines in attending the funeral ... shocking

Massive crowds turned out in West Belfast for the funeral of one of their own ... shocking

Can't believe this story has garnered so much discussion.  I suggest that no one should take their lead from the tabloid journalism of Stephen Nolan. 

If MON was to resign, and SF refused to nominate a successor, biggest losers would be the DUP, they must have very short memories.

I don't give a shite!!

This is the Cummings thing all over again one rule for them and another for everyone else. Families not allowed at funerals for 4 months but a big IRA man dies so it's ok for the leader to go to that while others suffered?

Bullshit! I couldn't care less what the DUP have said or what loyalists will do she's plain wrong and her apology wasn't worth a f**k. Those defending her are brainwashed dickheads stuck in the past!!

What she has done the past few days is not leadership it's a far cry from it!

Maybe you've been brainwashed by Stephen Nolan and the media hysteria ... MON attended a funeral and adhered to regulations ... the fact that thousands lined the streets, in social distancing formation, what did you want MON specifically to do differently?
Ah here c'mon don't treat your fellow board members the way Trump treats the Americans - thousands did not "line the streets in Social Distance formation", fact.  They were 5 deep in places.

I stopped listening to Nolan a long time ago, so haven't heard what he's on about.  I'm pissed on behalf of the families who listened to the public health advice and buried their dead with most of the family not even gaining access to the chapel.  And because SF impressively fought in the Executive for early lockdown, don't follow London etc, until it was one of their own and then they couldn't help themselves, it had to be a showpiece.  It should have been a respectful small affair (sadly) and they could celebrate Bobby Storeys life at a later stage. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zazz on July 04, 2020, 11:04:24 AM
Sinn Fein, building an Ireland of equals.But some are more equal than others.Some boys here would eat the corn kernels out of Gerry Adams crap before saying that Sinn Fein did something wrong without using excuses or whataboutery.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on July 04, 2020, 11:30:07 AM
They're making a big mistake thinking it's the Unionist community against them many Nationalists and Republicans are not happy with the blatant hypocrisy on show.

Yes Sam McBride is a Unionist but he has no problem getting stuck into the DUP or Sinn Fein when it's warranted and he's right on this occasion!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ardtole on July 04, 2020, 12:15:15 PM
I'd agree that there wont be major electoral damage caused, but somewhere like fermanagh south tyrone as little as 50 votes could prove significant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on July 04, 2020, 12:40:59 PM
Politics in the North is like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, when he walked out in front of a bus, put the toaster in the bath and jumped from the bell tower, and still woke up alive and well. Politicians here - no matter what they do, they still live on.

Actually, maybe it says a lot about the people who keep voting them in, rather than the politicians themselves. They must be having a right old laugh on the way to the bank to cash their big pay cheques.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 04, 2020, 12:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 04, 2020, 12:40:59 PM
Politics in the North is like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, when he walked out in front of a bus, put the toaster in the bath and jumped from the bell tower, and still woke up alive and well. Politicians here - no matter what they do, they still live on.

Actually, maybe it says a lot about the people who keep voting them in, rather than the politicians themselves. They must be having a right old laugh on the way to the bank to cash their big pay cheques.

It's politics full stop. Look at Trump in US, Cummins/ Johnston in Uk. Nothing sticks. And part of that is the outrage culture of social media. Opposition in all walks will try an build up all errors by politicians, including minor ones to try and have the biggest impact against them. The problem with that is that when there is something significant it's lost in the noise and too easy to deflect/ distract from. It's depressing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 04, 2020, 01:28:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 04, 2020, 12:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 04, 2020, 12:40:59 PM
Politics in the North is like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, when he walked out in front of a bus, put the toaster in the bath and jumped from the bell tower, and still woke up alive and well. Politicians here - no matter what they do, they still live on.

Actually, maybe it says a lot about the people who keep voting them in, rather than the politicians themselves. They must be having a right old laugh on the way to the bank to cash their big pay cheques.

It's politics full stop. Look at Trump in US, Cummins/ Johnston in Uk. Nothing sticks. And part of that is the outrage culture of social media. Opposition in all walks will try an build up all errors by politicians, including minor ones to try and have the biggest impact against them. The problem with that is that when there is something significant it's lost in the noise and too easy to deflect/ distract from. It's depressing.

Definitely depressing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Zazz on July 04, 2020, 07:26:50 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2020, 11:14:23 AM
Quote from: Zazz on July 04, 2020, 11:04:24 AM
Sinn Fein, building an Ireland of equals.But some are more equal than others.Some boys here would eat the corn kernels out of Gerry Adams crap before saying that Sinn Fein did something wrong without using excuses or whataboutery.
That's true and it is true the other way too. I mean, a glance at your posts would suggest they're the reason you're on this board at all.

That is politics. It has always been politics. People bat for their own side regardless.

Whatabout?
Whatabout?
Whatabout?
Whatabout?

::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 07, 2020, 12:55:28 PM
SF equality agenda on display in Roselawn as well I see. Why was the remains taken to Milltown Cemetery? And then onto Roselawn for cremation? All of this took place in Lockdown - which SF pushed for aggressively! 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2020, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 07, 2020, 12:55:28 PM
SF equality agenda on display in Roselawn as well I see. Why was the remains taken to Milltown Cemetery? And then onto Roselawn for cremation? All of this took place in Lockdown - which SF pushed for aggressively!

No point asking, you will not get a plausible answer. Orwellian
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 07, 2020, 01:55:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 07, 2020, 01:42:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 07, 2020, 12:55:28 PM
SF equality agenda on display in Roselawn as well I see. Why was the remains taken to Milltown Cemetery? And then onto Roselawn for cremation? All of this took place in Lockdown - which SF pushed for aggressively!
He was always going to Roselawn for cremation. Milltown was for show.

In the middle of a pandemic? Not exactly a necessary journey was it?

One day people will wake up... I just hope it's not to late.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 07, 2020, 02:31:16 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 07, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 07, 2020, 01:55:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 07, 2020, 01:42:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 07, 2020, 12:55:28 PM
SF equality agenda on display in Roselawn as well I see. Why was the remains taken to Milltown Cemetery? And then onto Roselawn for cremation? All of this took place in Lockdown - which SF pushed for aggressively!
He was always going to Roselawn for cremation. Milltown was for show.

In the middle of a pandemic? Not exactly a necessary journey was it?

One day people will wake up... I just hope it's not to late.
Not a necessary journey at all. In fact, there are a number of issues with the funeral. Which is probably why it has been all over the news for a week.

Well SF seem to think it's not an issue. They have a fair few supporters on this board so I just want to be hold a light over their actions so everyone can see them for what they are. It's bad enough with them in power in the North but a party who wants to govern in the South? God help us all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 07, 2020, 03:13:44 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 04, 2020, 02:34:23 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 03, 2020, 11:58:07 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
So MON, as SF leader in north attends the funeral of a leading figure in the IRA who played a major part in bringing the organisation along into in the peace process .... shocking

MON followed regulations and guidelines in attending the funeral ... shocking

Massive crowds turned out in West Belfast for the funeral of one of their own ... shocking

Can't believe this story has garnered so much discussion.  I suggest that no one should take their lead from the tabloid journalism of Stephen Nolan. 

If MON was to resign, and SF refused to nominate a successor, biggest losers would be the DUP, they must have very short memories.

I don't give a shite!!

This is the Cummings thing all over again one rule for them and another for everyone else. Families not allowed at funerals for 4 months but a big IRA man dies so it's ok for the leader to go to that while others suffered?

Bullshit! I couldn't care less what the DUP have said or what loyalists will do she's plain wrong and her apology wasn't worth a f**k. Those defending her are brainwashed dickheads stuck in the past!!

What she has done the past few days is not leadership it's a far cry from it!

Maybe you've been brainwashed by Stephen Nolan and the media hysteria ... MON attended a funeral and adhered to regulations ... the fact that thousands lined the streets, in social distancing formation, what did you want MON specifically to do differently?

Taking selfies is adhering to regulations?

(http://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2020/07/02/084117481-fedc789a-9470-4852-8d79-fce0acba01db.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on July 07, 2020, 03:22:50 PM
Not good that SF attended this funeral in the way they did. However lost in all of this is the fact that for two weeks at the start of the pandemic MON almost alone was calling for a quicker lockdown whilst Naomi Long and the other Unionist parties followed Boris. They are being pathetically hypocritical in calling out SF now. That said all those who had to bury loved ones in lockdown deserved better than the Storey funeral and deserve a flu and frank apology from MON, she has undone much of the good work unnecessarily. That said it is done nothing to be gained by the political point scoring now going on. Too much work to be done to get businesses up and running and to protect against mass redundancy and an autumn spike.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on July 07, 2020, 03:59:21 PM
Not the Shinners finest hour to say the least.
I see they've had to stand down some of their organisation in Dublin where they nominated some lùlá for Mayor.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 07, 2020, 04:29:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 07, 2020, 02:50:26 PM
You're doing a great job.

Thanks, this is the encouragement I need to keep going.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on July 07, 2020, 07:02:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 07, 2020, 01:55:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 07, 2020, 01:42:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 07, 2020, 12:55:28 PM
SF equality agenda on display in Roselawn as well I see. Why was the remains taken to Milltown Cemetery? And then onto Roselawn for cremation? All of this took place in Lockdown - which SF pushed for aggressively!
He was always going to Roselawn for cremation. Milltown was for show.

In the middle of a pandemic? Not exactly a necessary journey was it?

One day people will wake up... I just hope it's not to late.

Far away from the puritanical tribes in the north to just good old fashioned southern hypocrisy.
FF party broke a cardinal travel restriction when a returning MEP from international crossroads Brussels, did not enter 14 day quarantine and attended a party conference on the weekend  straight after arrival. He was finally forced to own up today.

Did Fine Gael's MEP McGuinness  make the same trip to attend their party conference?
Anybody grab any opportune selfies?







Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2020, 07:47:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 07, 2020, 07:24:07 PM
Hypocrisy isn't a thing anymore. Whataboutery has killed it!

It is an extension of legal precedent. You can do what you like as as long as you show that someone else got away with it before.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on July 09, 2020, 10:41:06 PM
This Bobby Storey story not going away. How did SF take control of Roselawn Cemetery? Everyday more questions arise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on July 09, 2020, 10:51:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 09, 2020, 10:41:06 PM
This Bobby Storey story not going away. How did SF take control of Roselawn Cemetery? Everyday more questions arise.

"Time for your lunch break, big lad"

"But I've just had my lu... Yes, big muscly Shinner bloke".

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 10, 2020, 12:28:48 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 09, 2020, 10:51:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 09, 2020, 10:41:06 PM
This Bobby Storey story not going away. How did SF take control of Roselawn Cemetery? Everyday more questions arise.

"Time for your lunch break, big lad"

"But I've just had my lu... Yes, big muscly Shinner bloke".

Yes, I'm sure that I can buy another lunch with that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on July 10, 2020, 01:08:59 AM
Some of the people on here could do the boul Malachi a favour and lend them their handbook, so he might see how close he is...

A helpful guide. "Imagined: Sinn Fein's handbook for trolls... don't argue, just insult and never, ever say you're sorry
Malachi O'Doherty"

Commentators get hung up on ideas of free speech when all they have to do is hit the block button, says Malachi O'Doherty

I have never read the Sinn Fein handbook for social media trolls, but I imagine it reads something like this. Don't defend, attack. Never admit to being wrong about anything. Never concede that the movement has ever made a mistake.

We no longer advertise the principle that we are the only legitimate government of Ireland, but we do conduct ourselves in all affairs with a respect for this fundamental truth. No one knows better than we do what the nature of conflict is here and where the arc of history - our destiny - is taking us.

The best way in which you can serve our inevitable destiny is to scoff at those who doubt it. Treat their opinions as unworthy. In fact, do not engage with their arguments. Treat them as fools, at best, and more likely as liars and propagandists.

Instead of discussing the self-evident truths that the nation is one and that the movement is the unwavering champion of that truth, attack their motives for denying it.

It is obvious why unionists cling to the fantasy that the Union with Britain can endure. They are colonial lackies, behaving like children squealing when their comfort blanket is ripped away from them.

When their ancestors went to other countries, they became nationals of those countries. They are now Americans and Australians and English.

But here they thought they could remain British and carved out a corner of the country for themselves at the expense of the rest of us.

Well, their time is running out.

But, ask yourself: why do some journalists and commentators sneer at republicans? These are professional lackies of the unionist system.

Remember, when they appear on the Nolan Show, or in the papers, they are getting paid to say what they say. These are not their genuine opinions you hear. Indeed, some of them are such spineless parrots that they don't have opinions. So, tell them what you think of them; that they are gutless hypocrites and - worse - they are traitors to the Republic.

The Republic is the ultimate destiny of a free Ireland. Pearse didn't invent the idea. He recognised it as a fundamental truth. Okay, don't get into that argument or they will think you are being a bit mystical, but remember: there is no alternative vision of Irish destiny that makes any sense.

In terms of tactics and approaches, there are devices you need to deploy.

First, hide your identity. Make up a pseudonym, or handle. The party can advise you if you can't think of one.

It is preferable to use a name that sounds cool and witty and at the same time Irish. Think modern Ireland. To be Gaelic is to be cool. But avoid the leprechaun, floppy green hat, Finn MacCool and shamrock stuff. Our project is not to be thought folksy, or chauvinistic.

You will need several of these names, because you will be setting up new accounts frequently. This is guerrilla warfare. We attack and retreat, re-group and attack again.

For example, if Jamie Bryson has said something outrageous on the Nolan show, use a new account to go after him. Just insult him. Don't offer him the thread of an argument he can come back on.

Your comrades will be alert to the new account and will come on board as followers.

If Bryson checks your followers and sees that you only have five or six, he will ignore it. Likewise, you should watch out for your comrades' new identities and get in behind them.

And the beauty of it is that, if Bryson then reacts, he will bring your tweet to the attention of the thousands who follow him.

Don't hold back, but remember: it is always better to tell him that he is a dumb squirt than to say anything which accords any dignity to his position.

If you say something like, for instance, "Jamie, how will you preserve the Union when the demographics are against you?" you are providing him with an opening.

He will say, "So, it is about ethnic conquest after all, is it?" And then you have to answer that and you have a debate going. And when there is a debate, you can lose.

You have to belittle him, not provide him with a platform. The objective is to make him tire of social media, to feel that it is always going to be a disheartening, uphill struggle to be taken seriously.

What you want is for him to wake up some morning feeling that it is no longer worth the trouble to go back on Twitter and face tons of abuse. That is our victory. And not just Jamie, but all the turncoats and lickspittles.

If you get someone to refuse Nolan because it is simply too wearisome and demoralising to face another day of derision and scorn, that is a victory.

Be alert to those who will accuse the republican family of past atrocities. Don't engage on their ground.

Suppose someone says, "What about all the children you sent out with bombs who blew themselves up?" The worst response would be: "'We were a young movement, finding our way and we made mistakes."

No, it's better to hit back with: "Have a bit more compassion for their grieving families. Anyway, what about the youngsters the Brits sent out with guns that were too big for them?" It is never to be about our failings, but about theirs.

Remember at all times that you are a party activist, deploying techniques of counter-propaganda that have been developed by professionals.

These techniques have been tested and they work. If you doubt that, then look at how inept the commentariat are. They have a simple weapon that they can use against you: all they need to do is block you.

But they are so befuddled by their notions of free speech and liberal discourse and other blather they picked up in sociology seminars that they think they have a duty to allow you to attack them. It's really quite funny, but they don't think strategically.

They are so full of themselves they don't see that they have made themselves Aunt Sallies for the movement, until one day they do and they give up.

First and foremost, comrades, enjoy your baiting of these fools, then go about your lives with pride and satisfaction in the knowledge that they could walk past you on the street and they wouldn't even know that you were the one that led the charge against them that morning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on August 13, 2020, 12:01:13 PM
I'll dish out criticism of Sinn Fein when I feel they deserve it but credit where it's due Mary Lou lives rent free in Leo's head he really is a vile wee bollox!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on August 13, 2020, 12:42:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 10, 2020, 01:08:59 AM
Some of the people on here could do the boul Malachi a favour and lend them their handbook, so he might see how close he is...

A helpful guide. "Imagined: Sinn Fein's handbook for trolls... don't argue, just insult and never, ever say you're sorry
Malachi O'Doherty"

Commentators get hung up on ideas of free speech when all they have to do is hit the block button, says Malachi O'Doherty

I have never read the Sinn Fein handbook for social media trolls, but I imagine it reads something like this. Don't defend, attack. Never admit to being wrong about anything. Never concede that the movement has ever made a mistake.

We no longer advertise the principle that we are the only legitimate government of Ireland, but we do conduct ourselves in all affairs with a respect for this fundamental truth. No one knows better than we do what the nature of conflict is here and where the arc of history - our destiny - is taking us.

The best way in which you can serve our inevitable destiny is to scoff at those who doubt it. Treat their opinions as unworthy. In fact, do not engage with their arguments. Treat them as fools, at best, and more likely as liars and propagandists.

Instead of discussing the self-evident truths that the nation is one and that the movement is the unwavering champion of that truth, attack their motives for denying it.

It is obvious why unionists cling to the fantasy that the Union with Britain can endure. They are colonial lackies, behaving like children squealing when their comfort blanket is ripped away from them.

When their ancestors went to other countries, they became nationals of those countries. They are now Americans and Australians and English.

But here they thought they could remain British and carved out a corner of the country for themselves at the expense of the rest of us.

Well, their time is running out.

But, ask yourself: why do some journalists and commentators sneer at republicans? These are professional lackies of the unionist system.

Remember, when they appear on the Nolan Show, or in the papers, they are getting paid to say what they say. These are not their genuine opinions you hear. Indeed, some of them are such spineless parrots that they don't have opinions. So, tell them what you think of them; that they are gutless hypocrites and - worse - they are traitors to the Republic.

The Republic is the ultimate destiny of a free Ireland. Pearse didn't invent the idea. He recognised it as a fundamental truth. Okay, don't get into that argument or they will think you are being a bit mystical, but remember: there is no alternative vision of Irish destiny that makes any sense.

In terms of tactics and approaches, there are devices you need to deploy.

First, hide your identity. Make up a pseudonym, or handle. The party can advise you if you can't think of one.

It is preferable to use a name that sounds cool and witty and at the same time Irish. Think modern Ireland. To be Gaelic is to be cool. But avoid the leprechaun, floppy green hat, Finn MacCool and shamrock stuff. Our project is not to be thought folksy, or chauvinistic.

You will need several of these names, because you will be setting up new accounts frequently. This is guerrilla warfare. We attack and retreat, re-group and attack again.

For example, if Jamie Bryson has said something outrageous on the Nolan show, use a new account to go after him. Just insult him. Don't offer him the thread of an argument he can come back on.

Your comrades will be alert to the new account and will come on board as followers.

If Bryson checks your followers and sees that you only have five or six, he will ignore it. Likewise, you should watch out for your comrades' new identities and get in behind them.

And the beauty of it is that, if Bryson then reacts, he will bring your tweet to the attention of the thousands who follow him.

Don't hold back, but remember: it is always better to tell him that he is a dumb squirt than to say anything which accords any dignity to his position.

If you say something like, for instance, "Jamie, how will you preserve the Union when the demographics are against you?" you are providing him with an opening.

He will say, "So, it is about ethnic conquest after all, is it?" And then you have to answer that and you have a debate going. And when there is a debate, you can lose.

You have to belittle him, not provide him with a platform. The objective is to make him tire of social media, to feel that it is always going to be a disheartening, uphill struggle to be taken seriously.

What you want is for him to wake up some morning feeling that it is no longer worth the trouble to go back on Twitter and face tons of abuse. That is our victory. And not just Jamie, but all the turncoats and lickspittles.

If you get someone to refuse Nolan because it is simply too wearisome and demoralising to face another day of derision and scorn, that is a victory.

Be alert to those who will accuse the republican family of past atrocities. Don't engage on their ground.

Suppose someone says, "What about all the children you sent out with bombs who blew themselves up?" The worst response would be: "'We were a young movement, finding our way and we made mistakes."

No, it's better to hit back with: "Have a bit more compassion for their grieving families. Anyway, what about the youngsters the Brits sent out with guns that were too big for them?" It is never to be about our failings, but about theirs.

Remember at all times that you are a party activist, deploying techniques of counter-propaganda that have been developed by professionals.

These techniques have been tested and they work. If you doubt that, then look at how inept the commentariat are. They have a simple weapon that they can use against you: all they need to do is block you.

But they are so befuddled by their notions of free speech and liberal discourse and other blather they picked up in sociology seminars that they think they have a duty to allow you to attack them. It's really quite funny, but they don't think strategically.

They are so full of themselves they don't see that they have made themselves Aunt Sallies for the movement, until one day they do and they give up.

First and foremost, comrades, enjoy your baiting of these fools, then go about your lives with pride and satisfaction in the knowledge that they could walk past you on the street and they wouldn't even know that you were the one that led the charge against them that morning.

I wonder what Malachi thinks Jamie Brysons position is..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:13:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 13, 2020, 12:42:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 10, 2020, 01:08:59 AM
Some of the people on here could do the boul Malachi a favour and lend them their handbook, so he might see how close he is...

A helpful guide. "Imagined: Sinn Fein's handbook for trolls... don't argue, just insult and never, ever say you're sorry
Malachi O'Doherty"

Commentators get hung up on ideas of free speech when all they have to do is hit the block button, says Malachi O'Doherty

I have never read the Sinn Fein handbook for social media trolls, but I imagine it reads something like this. Don't defend, attack. Never admit to being wrong about anything. Never concede that the movement has ever made a mistake.

We no longer advertise the principle that we are the only legitimate government of Ireland, but we do conduct ourselves in all affairs with a respect for this fundamental truth. No one knows better than we do what the nature of conflict is here and where the arc of history - our destiny - is taking us.

The best way in which you can serve our inevitable destiny is to scoff at those who doubt it. Treat their opinions as unworthy. In fact, do not engage with their arguments. Treat them as fools, at best, and more likely as liars and propagandists.

Instead of discussing the self-evident truths that the nation is one and that the movement is the unwavering champion of that truth, attack their motives for denying it.

It is obvious why unionists cling to the fantasy that the Union with Britain can endure. They are colonial lackies, behaving like children squealing when their comfort blanket is ripped away from them.

When their ancestors went to other countries, they became nationals of those countries. They are now Americans and Australians and English.

But here they thought they could remain British and carved out a corner of the country for themselves at the expense of the rest of us.

Well, their time is running out.

But, ask yourself: why do some journalists and commentators sneer at republicans? These are professional lackies of the unionist system.

Remember, when they appear on the Nolan Show, or in the papers, they are getting paid to say what they say. These are not their genuine opinions you hear. Indeed, some of them are such spineless parrots that they don't have opinions. So, tell them what you think of them; that they are gutless hypocrites and - worse - they are traitors to the Republic.

The Republic is the ultimate destiny of a free Ireland. Pearse didn't invent the idea. He recognised it as a fundamental truth. Okay, don't get into that argument or they will think you are being a bit mystical, but remember: there is no alternative vision of Irish destiny that makes any sense.

In terms of tactics and approaches, there are devices you need to deploy.

First, hide your identity. Make up a pseudonym, or handle. The party can advise you if you can't think of one.

It is preferable to use a name that sounds cool and witty and at the same time Irish. Think modern Ireland. To be Gaelic is to be cool. But avoid the leprechaun, floppy green hat, Finn MacCool and shamrock stuff. Our project is not to be thought folksy, or chauvinistic.

You will need several of these names, because you will be setting up new accounts frequently. This is guerrilla warfare. We attack and retreat, re-group and attack again.

For example, if Jamie Bryson has said something outrageous on the Nolan show, use a new account to go after him. Just insult him. Don't offer him the thread of an argument he can come back on.

Your comrades will be alert to the new account and will come on board as followers.

If Bryson checks your followers and sees that you only have five or six, he will ignore it. Likewise, you should watch out for your comrades' new identities and get in behind them.

And the beauty of it is that, if Bryson then reacts, he will bring your tweet to the attention of the thousands who follow him.

Don't hold back, but remember: it is always better to tell him that he is a dumb squirt than to say anything which accords any dignity to his position.

If you say something like, for instance, "Jamie, how will you preserve the Union when the demographics are against you?" you are providing him with an opening.

He will say, "So, it is about ethnic conquest after all, is it?" And then you have to answer that and you have a debate going. And when there is a debate, you can lose.

You have to belittle him, not provide him with a platform. The objective is to make him tire of social media, to feel that it is always going to be a disheartening, uphill struggle to be taken seriously.

What you want is for him to wake up some morning feeling that it is no longer worth the trouble to go back on Twitter and face tons of abuse. That is our victory. And not just Jamie, but all the turncoats and lickspittles.

If you get someone to refuse Nolan because it is simply too wearisome and demoralising to face another day of derision and scorn, that is a victory.

Be alert to those who will accuse the republican family of past atrocities. Don't engage on their ground.

Suppose someone says, "What about all the children you sent out with bombs who blew themselves up?" The worst response would be: "'We were a young movement, finding our way and we made mistakes."

No, it's better to hit back with: "Have a bit more compassion for their grieving families. Anyway, what about the youngsters the Brits sent out with guns that were too big for them?" It is never to be about our failings, but about theirs.

Remember at all times that you are a party activist, deploying techniques of counter-propaganda that have been developed by professionals.

These techniques have been tested and they work. If you doubt that, then look at how inept the commentariat are. They have a simple weapon that they can use against you: all they need to do is block you.

But they are so befuddled by their notions of free speech and liberal discourse and other blather they picked up in sociology seminars that they think they have a duty to allow you to attack them. It's really quite funny, but they don't think strategically.

They are so full of themselves they don't see that they have made themselves Aunt Sallies for the movement, until one day they do and they give up.

First and foremost, comrades, enjoy your baiting of these fools, then go about your lives with pride and satisfaction in the knowledge that they could walk past you on the street and they wouldn't even know that you were the one that led the charge against them that morning.

I wonder what Malachi thinks Jamie Brysons position is..
Well, well, well.

Five weeks of the board's Shinnerbots proving entirely unable to think of anything which wouldn't have confirmed Malachi's perceptive asnalysis, before one of them broke under the pressure and just HAD to post.

And like some game of Republican Bingo, he achieved not one, not two, but three "Troll Marks":

1. Play the man (Malachi), not the ball;
2. Whataboutery;
3. Drag in Jamie Bryson somehow.

And all that in the space of a nine word post - commendable productivity!

P.S. A bonus for the handle, JC: "It is preferable to use a name that sounds cool and witty and at the same time Irish. Think modern Ireland. To be Gaelic is to be cool. But avoid the leprechaun, floppy green hat, Finn MacCool and shamrock stuff. Our project is not to be thought folksy, or chauvinistic."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on August 13, 2020, 07:17:36 PM
What the fück is a shinnerbot exactly?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:29:31 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 13, 2020, 07:17:36 PM
What the fück is a shinnerbot exactly?
Answers on a postcard/tweet/phone call to Connolly House, Belfast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
Anybody that disagrees with unionist / loyalist / FF / FG ramblings is normally called a "Shinnerbot". Its an embarrassing term, and ridiculously overused. But when all else fails, and you dont have a coherent argument, throw the word out there. It seems to negate everything else.

That article in itself in also highly embarrassing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:13:23 PM
Well, well, well.

Five weeks of the board's Shinnerbots proving entirely unable to think of anything which wouldn't have confirmed Malachi's perceptive asnalysis, before one of them broke under the pressure and just HAD to post.

And like some game of Republican Bingo, he achieved not one, not two, but three "Troll Marks":

1. Play the man (Malachi), not the ball;
2. Whataboutery;
3. Drag in Jamie Bryson somehow.

And all that in the space of a nine word post - commendable productivity!

P.S. A bonus for the handle, JC: "It is preferable to use a name that sounds cool and witty and at the same time Irish. Think modern Ireland. To be Gaelic is to be cool. But avoid the leprechaun, floppy green hat, Finn MacCool and shamrock stuff. Our project is not to be thought folksy, or chauvinistic."

No, I'm genuinely interested in how Jamie Bryson has such an elevated position within unionism which yes isn't the main point of wee Malachi's post, I'll give you that.

Do Sinn Fein have followers on twitter or wherever that blindly follow the gospel coming out of Connolly House, yes they do, but you'll see the same on the unionist side, probably not the same volume but blinded by dogma just the same.

Am I a Shinnerbot, don't think I am, but would be in agreement with their aspirations if not the methodology.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 12:33:23 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 13, 2020, 07:17:36 PM
What the fück is a shinnerbot exactly?

People who relentlessly get behind Sinn Féin's policies /actions / statements on Twitter, regardless of what it is that has happened.. The common traits are selective memories and whataboutery, and that they will not admit to weakness in their party. And the more contentious the issue, the greater their duty is to protect Sinn Fein at all costs on Twitter.


——

Personally I like it that people get passionate about their beliefs. But the inability to spot hypocrisy or admit to weaknesses, well that's frustrating.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on August 14, 2020, 12:36:01 PM
Shinnerbot usually refers to SF recruits who keep repeating the same mantra on social media till it seeps in as fact in many younger folk.
We had 5 months of it after the General Election
SF won the election therefore ML should be Taoiseach
SF got 37 out of 42 elected therefore.. ..
SF got more candidates elected on 1st Count therefore...
Martin and Varadkar didn't get elected on 1st Count therefore...

And their trump card
The people voted for change therefore...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on August 14, 2020, 12:44:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 14, 2020, 12:36:01 PM
Shinnerbot usually refers to SF recruits who keep repeating the same mantra on social media till it seeps in as fact in many younger folk.
We had 5 months of it after the General Election
SF won the election therefore ML should be Taoiseach
SF got 37 out of 42 elected therefore.. ..
SF got more candidates elected on 1st Count therefore...
Martin and Varadkar didn't get elected on 1st Count therefore...

And their trump card
The people voted for change therefore...

And Eamon Ryan fell asleep.


It's beyond obvious that it's all co-ordinated on whatsapp or another private messaging service. I've had to unfollow some of my neighbours on facebook because of the relentlessly boring crap they spew out almost every day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
Anybody that disagrees with unionist / loyalist / FF / FG ramblings is normally called a "Shinnerbot". Its an embarrassing term, and ridiculously overused. But when all else fails, and you dont have a coherent argument, throw the word out there. It seems to negate everything else.
Thank you for your explanation.

On balance I think I prefer those of Rossfan, thewobbler, Five Points and Hardstation.

Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
That article in itself in also highly embarrassing.
Embarrassing for whom?

The author?

Or its targets?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on August 14, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
All very wordy. "Sinn Féin supporters on social media" would suffice. To be fair, other parties are missing a trick by having no online support.

No, it's the fact that it's so blatantly co-ordinated. If any other party tried it, they'd be laughed off but Sinn Féin necks are harder and more committed to the cause.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 01:13:42 PM
Quote from: five points on August 14, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
All very wordy. "Sinn Féin supporters on social media" would suffice. To be fair, other parties are missing a trick by having no online support.

No, it's the fact that it's so blatantly co-ordinated. If any other party tried it, they'd be laughed off but Sinn Féin necks are harder and more committed to the cause.

Learned from the US and the Tory's in the UK I'd suggest.

Not sure of the merits although feeding misinformation to the masses some evidently does seem to stick as you still hear the old nonsense about the EU banning bananas that hadn't the correct bend in them.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:13:23 PM
Well, well, well.

Five weeks of the board's Shinnerbots proving entirely unable to think of anything which wouldn't have confirmed Malachi's perceptive asnalysis, before one of them broke under the pressure and just HAD to post.

And like some game of Republican Bingo, he achieved not one, not two, but three "Troll Marks":

1. Play the man (Malachi), not the ball;
2. Whataboutery;
3. Drag in Jamie Bryson somehow.

And all that in the space of a nine word post - commendable productivity!

No, I'm genuinely interested in how Jamie Bryson has such an elevated position within unionism which yes isn't the main point of wee Malachi's post, I'll give you that.
"Such an elevated position within Unionism"?

Not a single Unionist party will touch him, not even the micro-parties.

He has no position withn the Loyal Orders, or any of the Protestant Churches

No-one in the Unionist media employs him.

He's not part of any pressure group, nor of any Think Tank (doesn't have the equipment!).

No connection with the Security Forces (other than when they go to arrest him).

Chased by his local Royal British Legion.

Unless, of course, you're referring to his stepping in as "Footie" (NI team mascot) at the last minute, when the regular incumbent was unavailable?

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/d0608/29053773.ece/AUTOCROP/h1000/NWS_20130207_UNC_008_26419620_I1)

Sorry to disappoint, but when his identity was revealed the next day (the mask slipped?), the IFA made it quite clear he'd never do it again.

In short, when Unionists don't pay him any attention, why on earth do Nationalists?

A need to point to "Demons" among Themmuns?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on August 14, 2020, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 01:13:42 PM
Quote from: five points on August 14, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
All very wordy. "Sinn Féin supporters on social media" would suffice. To be fair, other parties are missing a trick by having no online support.

No, it's the fact that it's so blatantly co-ordinated. If any other party tried it, they'd be laughed off but Sinn Féin necks are harder and more committed to the cause.

Learned from the US and the Tory's in the UK I'd suggest.

Not sure of the merits although feeding misinformation to the masses some evidently does seem to stick as you still hear the old nonsense about the EU banning bananas that hadn't the correct bend in them.

Learned from the US, definitely. I haven't seen anything of the like from the Tories but maybe I'm following the wrong people on social media for that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on August 14, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:13:23 PM
Well, well, well.

Five weeks of the board's Shinnerbots proving entirely unable to think of anything which wouldn't have confirmed Malachi's perceptive asnalysis, before one of them broke under the pressure and just HAD to post.

And like some game of Republican Bingo, he achieved not one, not two, but three "Troll Marks":

1. Play the man (Malachi), not the ball;
2. Whataboutery;
3. Drag in Jamie Bryson somehow.

And all that in the space of a nine word post - commendable productivity!

No, I'm genuinely interested in how Jamie Bryson has such an elevated position within unionism which yes isn't the main point of wee Malachi's post, I'll give you that.
"Such an elevated position within Unionism"?

Not a single Unionist party will touch him, not even the micro-parties.

He has no position withn the Loyal Orders, or any of the Protestant Churches

No-one in the Unionist media employs him.

He's not part of any pressure group, nor of any Think Tank (doesn't have the equipment!).

No connection with the Security Forces (other than when they go to arrest him).

Chased by his local Royal British Legion.

Unless, of course, you're referring to his stepping in as "Footie" (NI team mascot) at the last minute, when the regular incumbent was unavailable?

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/d0608/29053773.ece/AUTOCROP/h1000/NWS_20130207_UNC_008_26419620_I1)

Sorry to disappoint, but when his identity was revealed the next day (the mask slipped?), the IFA made it quite clear he'd never do it again.

In short, when Unionists don't pay him any attention, why on earth do Nationalists?

A need to point to "Demons" among Themmuns?

They do though.  Or are they not 'true' unionists?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on August 14, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: five points on August 14, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
All very wordy. "Sinn Féin supporters on social media" would suffice. To be fair, other parties are missing a trick by having no online support.

No, it's the fact that it's so blatantly co-ordinated. If any other party tried it, they'd be laughed off but Sinn Féin necks are harder and more committed to the cause.

Their biological and technological distinctiveness has been added to the collective.
It is a pity they would not use it to actually achieve a united Ireland rather than promoting their own cult.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on August 14, 2020, 02:06:00 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:13:23 PM
Well, well, well.

Five weeks of the board's Shinnerbots proving entirely unable to think of anything which wouldn't have confirmed Malachi's perceptive asnalysis, before one of them broke under the pressure and just HAD to post.

And like some game of Republican Bingo, he achieved not one, not two, but three "Troll Marks":

1. Play the man (Malachi), not the ball;
2. Whataboutery;
3. Drag in Jamie Bryson somehow.

And all that in the space of a nine word post - commendable productivity!

No, I'm genuinely interested in how Jamie Bryson has such an elevated position within unionism which yes isn't the main point of wee Malachi's post, I'll give you that.
"Such an elevated position within Unionism"?

Not a single Unionist party will touch him, not even the micro-parties.

He has no position withn the Loyal Orders, or any of the Protestant Churches

No-one in the Unionist media employs him.

He's not part of any pressure group, nor of any Think Tank (doesn't have the equipment!).

No connection with the Security Forces (other than when they go to arrest him).

Chased by his local Royal British Legion.

Unless, of course, you're referring to his stepping in as "Footie" (NI team mascot) at the last minute, when the regular incumbent was unavailable?

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/d0608/29053773.ece/AUTOCROP/h1000/NWS_20130207_UNC_008_26419620_I1)

Sorry to disappoint, but when his identity was revealed the next day (the mask slipped?), the IFA made it quite clear he'd never do it again.

In short, when Unionists don't pay him any attention, why on earth do Nationalists?

A need to point to "Demons" among Themmuns?

Sure, they could say that anyway. Who's to know if he's still doing mascot.

It's a bit like someone being banned from a stadium for bad behaviour. Next game, they could be sat in their usual seat. It's just good PR for a club/association to distance themselves from controversy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 14, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:13:23 PM
Well, well, well.

Five weeks of the board's Shinnerbots proving entirely unable to think of anything which wouldn't have confirmed Malachi's perceptive asnalysis, before one of them broke under the pressure and just HAD to post.

And like some game of Republican Bingo, he achieved not one, not two, but three "Troll Marks":

1. Play the man (Malachi), not the ball;
2. Whataboutery;
3. Drag in Jamie Bryson somehow.

And all that in the space of a nine word post - commendable productivity!

No, I'm genuinely interested in how Jamie Bryson has such an elevated position within unionism which yes isn't the main point of wee Malachi's post, I'll give you that.
"Such an elevated position within Unionism"?

Not a single Unionist party will touch him, not even the micro-parties.

He has no position withn the Loyal Orders, or any of the Protestant Churches

No-one in the Unionist media employs him.

He's not part of any pressure group, nor of any Think Tank (doesn't have the equipment!).

No connection with the Security Forces (other than when they go to arrest him).

Chased by his local Royal British Legion.

Unless, of course, you're referring to his stepping in as "Footie" (NI team mascot) at the last minute, when the regular incumbent was unavailable?

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/d0608/29053773.ece/AUTOCROP/h1000/NWS_20130207_UNC_008_26419620_I1)

Sorry to disappoint, but when his identity was revealed the next day (the mask slipped?), the IFA made it quite clear he'd never do it again.

In short, when Unionists don't pay him any attention, why on earth do Nationalists?

A need to point to "Demons" among Themmuns?

They do though.  Or are they not 'true' unionists?

He himself is quoted as saying he was asked to review the "agreement" that wasn't an agreement because Arlene couldn't sell it to her base a few years back. The OO, Mervyn Gibson said the same thing at the time, so Arlene must have valued their contributions at the time as well.

I know Nolan is a gobshíte but he's got Jamie on quite a lot as the voice of unionism. Would that no rankle with you?

It rankles with me when Martina Anderson is spouting some utter balls and it's deemed that all republicans/nationalists think like her as I've said on this thread and other threads manys a time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 14, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
In short, when Unionists don't pay [Bryson] any attention, why on earth do Nationalists?

They do though.  Or are they not 'true' unionists?
Whether 'true' or not, when are you going to get it into your head that the vast majority of Unionists don't pay any attention to wankers like Bryson, he's just an embarrassment.

And if you want stone-cold proof of that, just look what happened when he stood for election in 2011, in his own backyard of Bangor West:

Brian Wilson, (Ind) 1458
Alan Graham, (DUP) 1087
Alan Leslie, (DUP) 931
Anne Wilson, (Alliance) 808
Marion Smith, (UUP) 688
Tony Hill, (Alliance) 441
Joanne Dunlop, (Green) 301
Lian Logan, (SDLP) 298
James McKerrow, (UUP) 288
Alison Blayney, (Cmty Prtshp) 192
Julian Robertson, (Con) 181
Jamie Bryson, (Cmty Prtshp) 167
Ade Benson, (UKIP) 151

These are the facts, the rest is just blether - like Bryson himself comes out with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 14, 2020, 02:06:00 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
Unless, of course, you're referring to [Bryson] stepping in as "Footie" (NI team mascot) at the last minute, when the regular incumbent was unavailable?

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/d0608/29053773.ece/AUTOCROP/h1000/NWS_20130207_UNC_008_26419620_I1)

Sorry to disappoint, but when his identity was revealed the next day (the mask slipped?), the IFA made it quite clear he'd never do it again.

Sure, they could say that anyway. Who's to know if he's still doing mascot.

It's a bit like someone being banned from a stadium for bad behaviour. Next game, they could be sat in their usual seat. It's just good PR for a club/association to distance themselves from controversy.
Who's to say?

The IFA, that's who:

"Flag protester Jamie Bryson won't be Northern Ireland team mascot again, vows IFA"
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/flag-protester-jamie-bryson-wont-be-northern-ireland-team-mascot-again-vows-ifa-29053776.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/flag-protester-jamie-bryson-wont-be-northern-ireland-team-mascot-again-vows-ifa-29053776.html)

Mind you, it says something when you fixate on that single, silly 7 y.o. episode and completely ignore the substance of my post, namely:

Not a single Unionist party will touch [Bryson], not even the micro-parties.

He has no position within the Loyal Orders, or any of the Protestant Churches

No-one in the Unionist media employs him.

He's not part of any pressure group, nor of any Think Tank (doesn't have the equipment!).

No connection with the Security Forces (other than when they go to arrest him).

Chased by his local Royal British Legion.

Says something about you, that is...  ::)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on August 14, 2020, 02:51:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 14, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: five points on August 14, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
All very wordy. "Sinn Féin supporters on social media" would suffice. To be fair, other parties are missing a trick by having no online support.

No, it's the fact that it's so blatantly co-ordinated. If any other party tried it, they'd be laughed off but Sinn Féin necks are harder and more committed to the cause.

Their biological and technological distinctiveness has been added to the collective.
It is a pity they would not use it to actually achieve a united Ireland rather than promoting their own cult.

Agreed. Any twit can horse out memes to whip up a few votes but it's all kinda pointless if in doing so you end up alienating everyone else.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 02:53:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
Anybody that disagrees with unionist / loyalist / FF / FG ramblings is normally called a "Shinnerbot". Its an embarrassing term, and ridiculously overused. But when all else fails, and you dont have a coherent argument, throw the word out there. It seems to negate everything else.
Thank you for your explanation.

On balance I think I prefer those of Rossfan, thewobbler, Five Points and Hardstation.

Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
That article in itself in also highly embarrassing.
Embarrassing for whom?

The author?

Or its targets?

Why did I have a feeling you would prefer their explanations?  ;D

I suppose my point is, that it is very hard to defend anything SF related, even when in the right, or even just in an opinionated way in a debate, without 'Shinnerbot' being thrown out. Its the easy go-to, with many jumping on the bandwagon.

Maybe I'm just more annoyed with these stupid modern terms that are thrown about everywhere nowadays, 'bot', 'troll' and all the rest.

You cannot challenge or disagree these days without being labelled as such. Healthy debate can easily descend into being summed up as 'Shinnerbot'. Argument over.

There is also the possibility that I'm just debating with idiots I suppose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:55:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
He himself is quoted as saying he was asked to review the "agreement" that wasn't an agreement because Arlene couldn't sell it to her base a few years back. The OO, Mervyn Gibson said the same thing at the time, so Arlene must have valued their contributions at the time as well.
Far be it for me to speak for Arlene, but she talks to lots of people about lots of things - eg Michelle O'Neill.

Whether she heeds them is another thing entirely.

Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
I know Nolan is a gobshíte but he's got Jamie on quite a lot as the voice of unionism. Would that no rankle with you?
Who elected Bryson to be "the voice of Unionism"?

Certainly not Unionists.

Fact is, most people have better things to be doing than appearing on Nolan every five minutes (or listening to him, for that matter).

So he's hardly going to introduce his next guest as "Some ignorant wee gobshite that no-one of any intelligence or judgement gives a f**k about"

Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
It rankles with me when Martina Anderson is spouting some utter balls and it's deemed that all republicans/nationalists think like her as I've said on this thread and other threads manys a time.
Funny enough, I was going to mention Martina as being the Republican equivalent of Wee Jamie, but thought better of it, since the comparison* doesn't really hold.


* - Thousands of people vote for her, in case you're wondering  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 14, 2020, 03:07:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2020, 01:00:53 PM
Quote from: five points on August 14, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
All very wordy. "Sinn Féin supporters on social media" would suffice. To be fair, other parties are missing a trick by having no online support.

No, it's the fact that it's so blatantly co-ordinated. If any other party tried it, they'd be laughed off but Sinn Féin necks are harder and more committed to the cause.
People on this board have been accused of being Shinnerbots. Was the term misused on these occasions or do you believe there has been a coordinated infiltration of gaaboard in Sinn Féin's political strategy?
LOL I noticed you never got an answer. It's obvious in Connolly House the secret to a UI is held within these threads. Control the none gaa section and you control the people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on August 14, 2020, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 02:53:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
Anybody that disagrees with unionist / loyalist / FF / FG ramblings is normally called a "Shinnerbot". Its an embarrassing term, and ridiculously overused. But when all else fails, and you dont have a coherent argument, throw the word out there. It seems to negate everything else.
Thank you for your explanation.

On balance I think I prefer those of Rossfan, thewobbler, Five Points and Hardstation.

Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
That article in itself in also highly embarrassing.
Embarrassing for whom?

The author?

Or its targets?

Why did I have a feeling you would prefer their explanations?  ;D

I suppose my point is, that it is very hard to defend anything SF related, even when in the right, or even just in an opinionated way in a debate, without 'Shinnerbot' being thrown out. Its the easy go-to, with many jumping on the bandwagon.

Maybe I'm just more annoyed with these stupid modern terms that are thrown about everywhere nowadays, 'bot', 'troll' and all the rest.

You cannot challenge or disagree these days without being labelled as such. Healthy debate can easily descend into being summed up as 'Shinnerbot'. Argument over.

There is also the possibility that I'm just debating with idiots I suppose.

I think it's society these days. See brexiteers, anti vaxxers, libtards etc etc. It's not specific to those "causes" but shinner bot is akin to them. Rather than having a reasoned debate it will just be thrown in to kill an argument. I notice it's coming in to scottish nationalism a bit too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 14, 2020, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 02:53:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
Anybody that disagrees with unionist / loyalist / FF / FG ramblings is normally called a "Shinnerbot". Its an embarrassing term, and ridiculously overused. But when all else fails, and you dont have a coherent argument, throw the word out there. It seems to negate everything else.
Thank you for your explanation.

On balance I think I prefer those of Rossfan, thewobbler, Five Points and Hardstation.

Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on August 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
That article in itself in also highly embarrassing.
Embarrassing for whom?

The author?

Or its targets?

Why did I have a feeling you would prefer their explanations?  ;D

I suppose my point is, that it is very hard to defend anything SF related, even when in the right, or even just in an opinionated way in a debate, without 'Shinnerbot' being thrown out. Its the easy go-to, with many jumping on the bandwagon.

Maybe I'm just more annoyed with these stupid modern terms that are thrown about everywhere nowadays, 'bot', 'troll' and all the rest.

You cannot challenge or disagree these days without being labelled as such. Healthy debate can easily descend into being summed up as 'Shinnerbot'. Argument over.

There is also the possibility that I'm just debating with idiots I suppose.

I think it's society these days. See brexiteers, anti vaxxers, libtards etc etc. It's not specific to those "causes" but shinner bot is akin to them. Rather than having a reasoned debate it will just be thrown in to kill an argument. I notice it's coming in to scottish nationalism a bit too.

I think that's exactly it. And granted I am older and grumpier than ever, but it's a very frustrating trend. As you said it kills an argument. Anything said thereafter in defence of SF in any way is 'proving their point'. Lose-lose situation really when the term is thrown out there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:55:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
He himself is quoted as saying he was asked to review the "agreement" that wasn't an agreement because Arlene couldn't sell it to her base a few years back. The OO, Mervyn Gibson said the same thing at the time, so Arlene must have valued their contributions at the time as well.
Far be it for me to speak for Arlene, but she talks to lots of people about lots of things - eg Michelle O'Neill.

Whether she heeds them is another thing entirely.

Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
I know Nolan is a gobshíte but he's got Jamie on quite a lot as the voice of unionism. Would that no rankle with you?
Who elected Bryson to be "the voice of Unionism"?

Certainly not Unionists.

Fact is, most people have better things to be doing than appearing on Nolan every five minutes (or listening to him, for that matter).

So he's hardly going to introduce his next guest as "Some ignorant wee gobshite that no-one of any intelligence or judgement gives a f**k about"

Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
It rankles with me when Martina Anderson is spouting some utter balls and it's deemed that all republicans/nationalists think like her as I've said on this thread and other threads manys a time.
Funny enough, I was going to mention Martina as being the Republican equivalent of Wee Jamie, but thought better of it, since the comparison* doesn't really hold.


* - Thousands of people vote for her, in case you're wondering  ::)

I was struggling for a republican equivalent as well as the lunatic dissies up in Derry City and the likes don't get onto Radio UVF Nolan as much to vent their particular diatribe as Jamie evidently does.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on August 14, 2020, 06:18:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 14, 2020, 02:06:00 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
Unless, of course, you're referring to [Bryson] stepping in as "Footie" (NI team mascot) at the last minute, when the regular incumbent was unavailable?

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/d0608/29053773.ece/AUTOCROP/h1000/NWS_20130207_UNC_008_26419620_I1)

Sorry to disappoint, but when his identity was revealed the next day (the mask slipped?), the IFA made it quite clear he'd never do it again.

Sure, they could say that anyway. Who's to know if he's still doing mascot.

It's a bit like someone being banned from a stadium for bad behaviour. Next game, they could be sat in their usual seat. It's just good PR for a club/association to distance themselves from controversy.
Who's to say?

The IFA, that's who:

"Flag protester Jamie Bryson won't be Northern Ireland team mascot again, vows IFA"
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/flag-protester-jamie-bryson-wont-be-northern-ireland-team-mascot-again-vows-ifa-29053776.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/flag-protester-jamie-bryson-wont-be-northern-ireland-team-mascot-again-vows-ifa-29053776.html)

Mind you, it says something when you fixate on that single, silly 7 y.o. episode and completely ignore the substance of my post, namely:

Not a single Unionist party will touch [Bryson], not even the micro-parties.

He has no position within the Loyal Orders, or any of the Protestant Churches

No-one in the Unionist media employs him.

He's not part of any pressure group, nor of any Think Tank (doesn't have the equipment!).

No connection with the Security Forces (other than when they go to arrest him).

Chased by his local Royal British Legion.

Says something about you, that is...  ::)

Frig me, you like making a mountain out of a mole hill!

To be honest, I seen the mascot photo, and read that apparently it was Bryson, and made a comment. A throwaway comment at that. It wasn't to get at the IFA or their choice of mascot. It would've been the same had it been Liverpool, Celtic or Hull City. Any club in the same situation could say they weren't using a certain someone again, but who would know? Only a small number. That was my point.

Anyway, having seen now what was above the photo in that post, I've already answered similar in another thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on August 15, 2020, 12:13:08 PM
Quote from: five points on August 14, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 14, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
All very wordy. "Sinn Féin supporters on social media" would suffice. To be fair, other parties are missing a trick by having no online support.

No, it's the fact that it's so blatantly co-ordinated. If any other party tried it, they'd be laughed off but Sinn Féin necks are harder and more committed to the cause.
Perish the thought!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-suggested-creating-anonymous-accounts-online-to-make-positive-comments-on-news-37275799.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-suggested-creating-anonymous-accounts-online-to-make-positive-comments-on-news-37275799.html)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on August 17, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
The Armalite iphone and ballot box strategy has been rumbled! Shinnerbots assemble!  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on August 19, 2020, 12:42:34 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:55:19 PM

Fact is, most people have better things to be doing than appearing on Nolan every five minutes (or listening to him, for that matter).

So he's hardly going to introduce his next guest as "Some ignorant wee gobshite that no-one of any intelligence or judgement gives a f**k about"
The Nolan radio show is the most listened to program in NI  and I believe his BBCR5 show is also popular. By NI standards, Nolan is a very capable broadcaster. And if Nolan were covering the flags protests, why should Bryson not be interviewed?
Apart from your own opinions, who in NI politics do you have a respect for?
I don't know if Bryson believes in creationism,  but according  to my perspective of DUP's Loyalism, their evident levels of bigotry and sectarian politiking, is Bryson all that different? Is he too smart for them?  Leaving aside personality traits that he's a bit wild, a lone groover, opportunistic etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on August 19, 2020, 01:17:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2020, 12:42:34 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:55:19 PM

Fact is, most people have better things to be doing than appearing on Nolan every five minutes (or listening to him, for that matter).

So he's hardly going to introduce his next guest as "Some ignorant wee gobshite that no-one of any intelligence or judgement gives a f**k about"
The Nolan radio show is the most listened to program in NI  and I believe his BBCR5 show is also popular. By NI standards, Nolan is a very capable broadcaster. And if Nolan were covering the flags protests, why should Bryson not be interviewed?
Apart from your own opinions, who in NI politics do you have a respect for?
I don't know if Bryson believes in creationism,  but according  to my perspective of DUP's Loyalism, their evident levels of bigotry and sectarian politiking, is Bryson all that different? Is he too smart for them?  Leaving aside personality traits that he's a bit wild, a lone groover, opportunistic etc.

Because he's no mandate to speak on anyone's behalf other than his own..

At least the bigots Allister and Wells are elected.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on August 25, 2020, 09:25:45 PM
Martina Anderson offending half the country again.  She really is a liability.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2020, 12:09:11 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 25, 2020, 09:25:45 PM
Martina Anderson offending half the country again.  She really is a liability.

She's is a car crash, her and her niece
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on August 26, 2020, 09:54:15 AM
Martina Anderson needs to be ditched by the Shinners, she is out of touch with reality. it is time that SF began to hold members to account, this type of garbage is self defeating. If she had welcomed the pension but put the onus on the British to fund it whilst raising concerns that the killers of Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy could benefit that would be understandable but this tweet was inexcusable. Eastwood revelling in putting the boot in but I didn't hear him express any concern over funding or beneficiaries. The two main nationalist parties are well short of where they need to be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armamike on August 26, 2020, 10:15:09 AM
She's an embarrassment. Unable to make a point without causing huge insult.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on August 26, 2020, 11:27:24 AM
Quote from: Armamike on August 26, 2020, 10:15:09 AM
She's an embarrassment. Unable to make a point without causing huge insult.

Mary Lou needs to pension Martina off come the next assembly elections.

Most republicans let alone anyone else must cringe every time she spouts something on social media.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 28, 2020, 04:20:40 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 25, 2020, 09:25:45 PM
Martina Anderson offending half the country again.  She really is a liability.
Only "half"?

I'd have hoped that a whole lot more than that could distinguish between Perpetrator and Victim.

You know people like this man, Edde O'Neill, who lost his father and was himself badly injured along with his brother in the Dublin bombings of 1974:

In his email [to Anderson and other SF MLA's], Mr O'Neill accused the Sinn Féin MLA of causing untold misery to mankind and told her to to stop referring to IRA members as victims.

He told BBC NI's Good Morning Ulster on Friday:"This is just part of an overall agenda by Sinn Féin to try and legitimise the likes of gunmen, bombers, child killers and murderers.

"This is not just about me this is about every other person that suffered as a result of these people."

He said he had told Ms Anderson she has to stop referring to "IRA bombers, gunmen, murderers and child killers as victims, because they aren't".

"I went out on 17 May 1974 as a child myself and I watched my father die in front of me," he said.

"The constant chipping away and the reference from Sinn Féin is that people like (Shankill bomber) Sean Kelly have the same rights and entitlements as me," he said.

"They don't, they are not entitled to that pension, none of them are loyalist or republican.

"Anybody convicted, anybody injured through acts of terrorism should not be entitled to that pension - in no way shape or form."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53947629 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53947629)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on August 28, 2020, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 14, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
In short, when Unionists don't pay [Bryson] any attention, why on earth do Nationalists?

They do though.  Or are they not 'true' unionists?
Whether 'true' or not, when are you going to get it into your head that the vast majority of Unionists don't pay any attention to wankers like Bryson, he's just an embarrassment.

And if you want stone-cold proof of that, just look what happened when he stood for election in 2011, in his own backyard of Bangor West:

Brian Wilson, (Ind) 1458
Alan Graham, (DUP) 1087
Alan Leslie, (DUP) 931
Anne Wilson, (Alliance) 808
Marion Smith, (UUP) 688
Tony Hill, (Alliance) 441
Joanne Dunlop, (Green) 301
Lian Logan, (SDLP) 298
James McKerrow, (UUP) 288
Alison Blayney, (Cmty Prtshp) 192
Julian Robertson, (Con) 181
Jamie Bryson, (Cmty Prtshp) 167
Ade Benson, (UKIP) 151

These are the facts, the rest is just blether - like Bryson himself comes out with.

So the goalposts move to the 'vast majority' now.

There were plenty who listened to his call to action when the big bad nationalists took away his fleg.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on August 28, 2020, 04:43:30 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:55:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
He himself is quoted as saying he was asked to review the "agreement" that wasn't an agreement because Arlene couldn't sell it to her base a few years back. The OO, Mervyn Gibson said the same thing at the time, so Arlene must have valued their contributions at the time as well.
Far be it for me to speak for Arlene, but she talks to lots of people about lots of things - eg Michelle O'Neill.

Whether she heeds them is another thing entirely.

Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
I know Nolan is a gobshíte but he's got Jamie on quite a lot as the voice of unionism. Would that no rankle with you?
Who elected Bryson to be "the voice of Unionism"?

Certainly not Unionists.

Fact is, most people have better things to be doing than appearing on Nolan every five minutes (or listening to him, for that matter).

So he's hardly going to introduce his next guest as "Some ignorant wee gobshite that no-one of any intelligence or judgement gives a f**k about"

Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
It rankles with me when Martina Anderson is spouting some utter balls and it's deemed that all republicans/nationalists think like her as I've said on this thread and other threads manys a time.
Funny enough, I was going to mention Martina as being the Republican equivalent of Wee Jamie, but thought better of it, since the comparison* doesn't really hold.


* - Thousands of people vote for her, in case you're wondering  ::)

She spoke to Michelle O'Neill in her capacity as JFM.

If Bryson is only "Some ignorant wee gobshite that no-one of any intelligence or judgement gives a f**k about", why did she feel the need to gain his approval?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 28, 2020, 06:54:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 28, 2020, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 14, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
In short, when Unionists don't pay [Bryson] any attention, why on earth do Nationalists?

They do though.  Or are they not 'true' unionists?
Whether 'true' or not, when are you going to get it into your head that the vast majority of Unionists don't pay any attention to wankers like Bryson, he's just an embarrassment.

And if you want stone-cold proof of that, just look what happened when he stood for election in 2011, in his own backyard of Bangor West:

Brian Wilson, (Ind) 1458
Alan Graham, (DUP) 1087
Alan Leslie, (DUP) 931
Anne Wilson, (Alliance) 808
Marion Smith, (UUP) 688
Tony Hill, (Alliance) 441
Joanne Dunlop, (Green) 301
Lian Logan, (SDLP) 298
James McKerrow, (UUP) 288
Alison Blayney, (Cmty Prtshp) 192
Julian Robertson, (Con) 181
Jamie Bryson, (Cmty Prtshp) 167
Ade Benson, (UKIP) 151

These are the facts, the rest is just blether - like Bryson himself comes out with.

So the goalposts move to the 'vast majority' now.

There were plenty who listened to his call to action when the big bad nationalists took away his fleg.

If Bryson is only "Some ignorant wee gobshite that no-one of any intelligence or judgement gives a f**k about", why did [Arlene] feel the need to gain his approval?
Straight from the Shinners' Handbook:

When faced with something uncomfortable (Anderson's latest stunt), don't Defend, just Deflect (Bryson) and Attack (Arlene).

Well I will indulge you your tactics, in the hope of getting a comment on Eddie O'Neill's email to SF.

1. You've spotted a difference between "Unionists" as a whole disregarding Bryson and "the vast majority" - well done you! Either way, he got precisely 2.4% of the vote in the only election he ever dared face - and that in his own home Unionist stronghold of Bangor;

2. If Bryson is capable of bringing the usual Rent-A-Mob out onto the streets for his latest flag protest etc, how many are we talking about? Two thousand? Five thousand? Ten thousand even? A crowd like that can certainly create big headlines and another heated edition of Nolan etc. But at best they stlll only represent maybe 1%(?) of over 900,000 Unionists in NI. (In Nationalist terms that's Dissident levels);

3. As someone who's proud to say he's never given so much as a 10th Preference vote to the DUP I'm not here to defend Arlene Foster. But if you truly believe that she and her party take their lead from that gobshite Bryson then you really don't understand anything.

So having got that out of the way, do you have anything to say about Eddie O'Neill's email to Martina Anderson?
 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 28, 2020, 07:36:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 28, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
Other than the title, what singles that out as a specific Sinn Féin tactic? That's not to say that they don't do that. They do but isn't it age-old and common?
Whataboutery (has a chapter of its own in the Handbook)

This is the SF thread, their response to the Troubles Pension is clearly current and controversial, and I am inviting peoples comments on it.

If you wish to address other parties' political tactics, whether current or "age-old," there are other threads for that purpose (eg Arlene and SDLP etc).

Meanwhile, any opinion on Eddie O'Neill's email to Martina Anderson?

(Genuine question)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 28, 2020, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 28, 2020, 07:41:11 PM
I suggest you yourself have just fallen foul of both the whataboutery and deflection sections of the Sinn Féin handbook.
So as I was saying: "Any opinion on Eddie O'Neill's email to Martina Anderson?"

Same question to "Franko".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on August 29, 2020, 05:39:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 28, 2020, 08:08:21 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 28, 2020, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 28, 2020, 07:41:11 PM
I suggest you yourself have just fallen foul of both the whataboutery and deflection sections of the Sinn Féin handbook.
So as I was saying: "Any opinion on Eddie O'Neill's email to Martina Anderson?"
Not really. It's his view, he's very much entitled to it and I'm not going to tell him he's wrong.
OK then.

But from her tweeting, it's clear that Martina Anderson believes that eg Sean Kelly (Shankill Road bomber) was as much a "victim" for the injuries he sustained as the people he killed. And by extension, we must assume that that applies equally eg to Michael Stone (Milltown gunman).

Do you agree with her?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on September 01, 2020, 07:31:04 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 28, 2020, 06:54:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 28, 2020, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 14, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
In short, when Unionists don't pay [Bryson] any attention, why on earth do Nationalists?

They do though.  Or are they not 'true' unionists?
Whether 'true' or not, when are you going to get it into your head that the vast majority of Unionists don't pay any attention to wankers like Bryson, he's just an embarrassment.

And if you want stone-cold proof of that, just look what happened when he stood for election in 2011, in his own backyard of Bangor West:

Brian Wilson, (Ind) 1458
Alan Graham, (DUP) 1087
Alan Leslie, (DUP) 931
Anne Wilson, (Alliance) 808
Marion Smith, (UUP) 688
Tony Hill, (Alliance) 441
Joanne Dunlop, (Green) 301
Lian Logan, (SDLP) 298
James McKerrow, (UUP) 288
Alison Blayney, (Cmty Prtshp) 192
Julian Robertson, (Con) 181
Jamie Bryson, (Cmty Prtshp) 167
Ade Benson, (UKIP) 151

These are the facts, the rest is just blether - like Bryson himself comes out with.

So the goalposts move to the 'vast majority' now.

There were plenty who listened to his call to action when the big bad nationalists took away his fleg.

If Bryson is only "Some ignorant wee gobshite that no-one of any intelligence or judgement gives a f**k about", why did [Arlene] feel the need to gain his approval?
Straight from the Shinners' Handbook:

When faced with something uncomfortable (Anderson's latest stunt), don't Defend, just Deflect (Bryson) and Attack (Arlene).

Well I will indulge you your tactics, in the hope of getting a comment on Eddie O'Neill's email to SF.

1. You've spotted a difference between "Unionists" as a whole disregarding Bryson and "the vast majority" - well done you! Either way, he got precisely 2.4% of the vote in the only election he ever dared face - and that in his own home Unionist stronghold of Bangor;

2. If Bryson is capable of bringing the usual Rent-A-Mob out onto the streets for his latest flag protest etc, how many are we talking about? Two thousand? Five thousand? Ten thousand even? A crowd like that can certainly create big headlines and another heated edition of Nolan etc. But at best they stlll only represent maybe 1%(?) of over 900,000 Unionists in NI. (In Nationalist terms that's Dissident levels);

3. As someone who's proud to say he's never given so much as a 10th Preference vote to the DUP I'm not here to defend Arlene Foster. But if you truly believe that she and her party take their lead from that gobshite Bryson then you really don't understand anything.

So having got that out of the way, do you have anything to say about Eddie O'Neill's email to Martina Anderson?


If you want someone to defend Martina Anderson or SF, you've got the wrong guy.  She is an absolute joke and the party are to be ridiculed for standing her in an election.  Likewise, I cannot understand the mentality of anyone who votes for her.  She must be one hell of a local rep, because, as far as I can see, anything she does on a larger scale, is a total disaster.

Regarding Eddie O'Neill's email, for which you are so anxious for comment on.  I honestly don't know what side of the line I'd be on with this, and I didn't know of it until you posted it.  I 100% struggle to place Sean Kelly in a similar bracket to this man.  I also struggle with the fact that the British Gov't have (and continue to) pay pensions to folks who are every bit a bad as Kelly so it's difficult to accept the moralising attached to it from the usual sources.

To further compound this, it is somewhat ironic that you chose a this man to highlight your point.  Given some of the allegations that have come from within the security services themselves, it may be the case that they are currently paying pensions to those involved in the organisation of the ACTUAL bomb which injured Eddie.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on September 01, 2020, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 01, 2020, 07:31:04 AM
If you want someone to defend Martina Anderson or SF, you've got the wrong guy.  She is an absolute joke and the party are to be ridiculed for standing her in an election.  Likewise, I cannot understand the mentality of anyone who votes for her.  She must be one hell of a local rep, because, as far as I can see, anything she does on a larger scale, is a total disaster.
Thank you - it's good to hear.

Quote from: Franko on September 01, 2020, 07:31:04 AM
Regarding Eddie O'Neill's email, for which you are so anxious for comment on.  I honestly don't know what side of the line I'd be on with this, and I didn't know of it until you posted it.  I 100% struggle to place Sean Kelly in a similar bracket to this man.  I also struggle with the fact that the British Gov't have (and continue to) pay pensions to folks who are every bit a bad as Kelly so it's difficult to accept the moralising attached to it from the usual sources.

To further compound this, it is somewhat ironic that you chose a this man to highlight your point.  Given some of the allegations that have come from within the security services themselves, it may be the case that they are currently paying pensions to those involved in the organisation of the ACTUAL bomb which injured Eddie.
My position is quite clear.

No-one who was injured in the course of carrying out illegal activities ahould be allowed a penny of this funding.

That should apply equally to members of paramilitary organisations AND the security forces.

I imagine Eddie O'Neill thinks pretty much the same, but that was not his point.

Rather it was to highlight the outrageous nature of Anderson's tweeting, which claimed that victims weren't entitled because they were all part of the "Brit Securocrat Statelet etc" (paraphrasing).

Which was just another way of saying that the people that she and her comrades used to shoot and bomb deserved it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 01, 2020, 02:01:58 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on September 01, 2020, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 01, 2020, 07:31:04 AM
If you want someone to defend Martina Anderson or SF, you've got the wrong guy.  She is an absolute joke and the party are to be ridiculed for standing her in an election.  Likewise, I cannot understand the mentality of anyone who votes for her.  She must be one hell of a local rep, because, as far as I can see, anything she does on a larger scale, is a total disaster.
Thank you - it's good to hear.

Quote from: Franko on September 01, 2020, 07:31:04 AM
Regarding Eddie O'Neill's email, for which you are so anxious for comment on.  I honestly don't know what side of the line I'd be on with this, and I didn't know of it until you posted it.  I 100% struggle to place Sean Kelly in a similar bracket to this man.  I also struggle with the fact that the British Gov't have (and continue to) pay pensions to folks who are every bit a bad as Kelly so it's difficult to accept the moralising attached to it from the usual sources.

To further compound this, it is somewhat ironic that you chose a this man to highlight your point.  Given some of the allegations that have come from within the security services themselves, it may be the case that they are currently paying pensions to those involved in the organisation of the ACTUAL bomb which injured Eddie.
My position is quite clear.

No-one who was injured in the course of carrying out illegal activities ahould be allowed a penny of this funding.

That should apply equally to members of paramilitary organisations AND the security forces.

I imagine Eddie O'Neill thinks pretty much the same, but that was not his point.

Rather it was to highlight the outrageous nature of Anderson's tweeting, which claimed that victims weren't entitled because they were all part of the "Brit Securocrat Statelet etc" (paraphrasing).

Which was just another way of saying that the people that she and her comrades used to shoot and bomb deserved it.
This is a in one post a summation of why the NI state will fail. All blame is heaped on those who took up arms against a corrupt Stormont regime and decades of discrimination. Personally I did not and would not resort to violence as an option. But this is lazy one-sided analysis. The NI state was founded on terrorist threat of violence and purges on the nationalist community. It is easy for a middle-class relatively well of catholic such as myself to look down on the mainly working class people who were involved on both sides. They were all victims of circumstance and as such if they need assistance then it should be given based on need. There can be no onesided British narrative or hierarchy of victims. Understanding is required from all sides.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on September 01, 2020, 02:30:34 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on September 01, 2020, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 01, 2020, 07:31:04 AM
If you want someone to defend Martina Anderson or SF, you've got the wrong guy.  She is an absolute joke and the party are to be ridiculed for standing her in an election.  Likewise, I cannot understand the mentality of anyone who votes for her.  She must be one hell of a local rep, because, as far as I can see, anything she does on a larger scale, is a total disaster.
Thank you - it's good to hear.

Quote from: Franko on September 01, 2020, 07:31:04 AM
Regarding Eddie O'Neill's email, for which you are so anxious for comment on.  I honestly don't know what side of the line I'd be on with this, and I didn't know of it until you posted it.  I 100% struggle to place Sean Kelly in a similar bracket to this man.  I also struggle with the fact that the British Gov't have (and continue to) pay pensions to folks who are every bit a bad as Kelly so it's difficult to accept the moralising attached to it from the usual sources.

To further compound this, it is somewhat ironic that you chose a this man to highlight your point.  Given some of the allegations that have come from within the security services themselves, it may be the case that they are currently paying pensions to those involved in the organisation of the ACTUAL bomb which injured Eddie.
My position is quite clear.

No-one who was injured in the course of carrying out illegal activities ahould be allowed a penny of this funding.

That should apply equally to members of paramilitary organisations AND the security forces.

I imagine Eddie O'Neill thinks pretty much the same, but that was not his point.

Rather it was to highlight the outrageous nature of Anderson's tweeting, which claimed that victims weren't entitled because they were all part of the "Brit Securocrat Statelet etc" (paraphrasing).

Which was just another way of saying that the people that she and her comrades used to shoot and bomb deserved it.

The major issue here is that the people who are responsible for determining whether an action was illegal are the same people who were involved in the other side of the conflict.  These people would have a history of being economical with the truth around these issues, and indeed, refuse to release files which could help the investigation into the bombing which injured Mr O'Neill.  (No doubt, given your genuine concern for him, you will know this.)  And this is where your clear position becomes, well, not so clear.

I'll also take that as an apology for the repeated labelling of myself as some sort of SF lackey.  There must be a unionist handbook somewhere which contains one rule.  "When faced with any argument from someone which is in any way supportive of a nationalist viewpoint, stick your fingers in your ears and shout Shinnerbot".  Given some of the beautifully written prose you have produced here over the years in the course of debates, I would have expected something so infantile to be beneath you.  It seems not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on September 01, 2020, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 01, 2020, 02:30:34 PM
The major issue here is that the people who are responsible for determining whether an action was illegal are the same people who were involved in the other side of the conflict. 

Why have they not retired?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 10:47:20 AM
Here we go again.

I have been banging on about this type of stuff for the past year. There is much much more.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54717656

SF ARE CORRUPT.

Elisha McCallion involved again!
Currently down in Dublin on a very large salary (job given as result of nepotism) now in the middle of this.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 11:04:04 AM
In fairness they had no say in receiving the money as it was distributed by LPS based on a rateable value.

The issue as I'd see it, is that it took until yesterday to repay the money as they'll have no doubt noted the income over the last 6 months.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:20:48 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 11:04:04 AM
In fairness they had no say in receiving the money as it was distributed by LPS based on a rateable value.

The issue as I'd see it, is that it took until yesterday to repay the money as they'll have no doubt noted the income over the last 6 months.

Exactly - the issue here isnt that it was paid - it is more why was it only paid back yesterday when the investigation by Fat Chops was to expose it?

Could this have been a set up from the beginning?
Someone knew SF wouldnt come clean about the money so made 3 separate payments to 3 separate people and waited until now?

Its seems very coincidental that the 'incorrect' payments were all made to SF.

Irrespective of all that - SF have fucked up here - makes them no better than the rest when it comes to financial matters (if anyone had thought they were)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 28, 2020, 11:25:51 AM
The DUP hasn't responded either!! My guess is they are in it same as SF.

Complete clowns.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tintin25 on October 28, 2020, 11:58:27 AM
When will the penny finally drop for some people to stop voting for these clowns? (include DUP in that also)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 12:18:36 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:20:48 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 11:04:04 AM
In fairness they had no say in receiving the money as it was distributed by LPS based on a rateable value.

The issue as I'd see it, is that it took until yesterday to repay the money as they'll have no doubt noted the income over the last 6 months.

Exactly - the issue here isnt that it was paid - it is more why was it only paid back yesterday when the investigation by Fat Chops was to expose it?

Could this have been a set up from the beginning?
Someone knew SF wouldnt come clean about the money so made 3 separate payments to 3 separate people and waited until now?

Its seems very coincidental that the 'incorrect' payments were all made to SF.

Irrespective of all that - SF have fucked up here - makes them no better than the rest when it comes to financial matters (if anyone had thought they were)

Having quite a lot of experience in how these gangsters work id not be surprised if they somehow categorised their offices as a business. That is what they do. They find loopholes either legal or illegal and exploit them. Another trusted method they use is to filter money through community and voluntary organisatios which in many cases are listed very loosly as charities with the charity commission to avoid all sorts of charges including rates
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on October 28, 2020, 12:50:41 PM
BBC reporting two things
1) The £30k was repaid by SF on Monday of this week
2) The DfE says that 452 payments were erroneously made by LPS and 70 have been repaid.

Nolan talked about his Stormont source.  Someone in the civil service has noticed these payments to SF and gone to Nolan with the story?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 01:41:34 PM
I'd say that's absolutely the case with Nolan & his source.

I would imagine there is a fair chance other political parties as well as vacant buildings / dormant companies etc who have a rateable value will have received payments - that's the nature of the scheme & the speed at which it was setup.

The issue boils back to why they weren't paid back sooner as they'll absolutely have known the funds have been received in error.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on October 28, 2020, 01:46:18 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 01:41:34 PM
I'd say that's absolutely the case with Nolan & his source.

I would imagine there is a fair chance other political parties as well as vacant buildings / dormant companies etc who have a rateable value will have received payments - that's the nature of the scheme & the speed at which it was setup.

The issue boils back to why they weren't paid back sooner as they'll absolutely have known the funds have been received in error.

Yes, quite why SF didn't pay them back sooner is the story.  These grants were paid out in April & May if i remember right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 02:16:19 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 28, 2020, 01:46:18 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 01:41:34 PM
I'd say that's absolutely the case with Nolan & his source.

I would imagine there is a fair chance other political parties as well as vacant buildings / dormant companies etc who have a rateable value will have received payments - that's the nature of the scheme & the speed at which it was setup.

The issue boils back to why they weren't paid back sooner as they'll absolutely have known the funds have been received in error.

Yes, quite why SF didn't pay them back sooner is the story.  These grants were paid out in April & May if i remember right.

So you didnt have to apply for these funds??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
No - they were paid automatically.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 02:36:22 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
No - they were paid automatically.

To any rateable business premise? I aslo see the 450 payments were sent incorrectly to which only 70 have been returned?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 03:03:51 PM
No - not any rateable business, small business ratepayers in receipt of Small Business Rates Relief, I think in excess of 24,000 payments had been made by LPS to businesses which shows the sheer scale of the scheme.

If you paid your rates by DD the money was automatically sent if receiving SBRR.

Given the scale & speed of the scheme setup it was inevitable errors would occur but it would come back on the individual recipient as to why they hadn't repaid the monies.

I'm sure it'll gather pace now for a name & shame exercise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 03:12:30 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 03:03:51 PM
No - not any rateable business, small business ratepayers in receipt of Small Business Rates Relief, I think in excess of 24,000 payments had been made by LPS to businesses which shows the sheer scale of the scheme.

If you paid your rates by DD the money was automatically sent if receiving SBRR.

Given the scale & speed of the scheme setup it was inevitable errors would occur but it would come back on the individual recipient as to why they hadn't repaid the monies.

I'm sure it'll gather pace now for a name & shame exercise.

Fingers crossed. The Donegal mansions might have to go without electronic security gates or something this year
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 03:12:30 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 03:03:51 PM
No - not any rateable business, small business ratepayers in receipt of Small Business Rates Relief, I think in excess of 24,000 payments had been made by LPS to businesses which shows the sheer scale of the scheme.

If you paid your rates by DD the money was automatically sent if receiving SBRR.

Given the scale & speed of the scheme setup it was inevitable errors would occur but it would come back on the individual recipient as to why they hadn't repaid the monies.

I'm sure it'll gather pace now for a name & shame exercise.

Fingers crossed. The Donegal mansions might have to go without electronic security gates or something this year

Fear, theres over 350 others that haven't returned the funds. Youve a long night ahead of ye pointing the finger.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on October 28, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Genuine mistake imo money has been repaid so end of story.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 07:08:11 PM
Quote from: skeog on October 28, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Genuine mistake imo money has been repaid so end of story.

Maolisa Mc Hugh is a trained accountant so i think you need to take off the blinkers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 03:12:30 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 03:03:51 PM
No - not any rateable business, small business ratepayers in receipt of Small Business Rates Relief, I think in excess of 24,000 payments had been made by LPS to businesses which shows the sheer scale of the scheme.

If you paid your rates by DD the money was automatically sent if receiving SBRR.

Given the scale & speed of the scheme setup it was inevitable errors would occur but it would come back on the individual recipient as to why they hadn't repaid the monies.

I'm sure it'll gather pace now for a name & shame exercise.

Fingers crossed. The Donegal mansions might have to go without electronic security gates or something this year

Fear, theres over 350 others that haven't returned the funds. Youve a long night ahead of ye pointing the finger.

I'm pretty sure most aren't elected reps and I'm pretty they sure are probably businesses of some sort rather than gangster politicians. Respect , integrity, etc etc

Take me on if you are up for it on this subject I've loads of dirt to spill
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on October 28, 2020, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: skeog on October 28, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Genuine mistake imo money has been repaid so end of story.

Why hold on to the money for 6 months and only pay it back when Nolan came sniffing around??

Surely that question needs to be answered!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 09:07:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 28, 2020, 07:37:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 03:12:30 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 28, 2020, 03:03:51 PM
No - not any rateable business, small business ratepayers in receipt of Small Business Rates Relief, I think in excess of 24,000 payments had been made by LPS to businesses which shows the sheer scale of the scheme.

If you paid your rates by DD the money was automatically sent if receiving SBRR.

Given the scale & speed of the scheme setup it was inevitable errors would occur but it would come back on the individual recipient as to why they hadn't repaid the monies.

I'm sure it'll gather pace now for a name & shame exercise.

Fingers crossed. The Donegal mansions might have to go without electronic security gates or something this year

Fear, theres over 350 others that haven't returned the funds. Youve a long night ahead of ye pointing the finger.

I'm pretty sure most aren't elected reps and I'm pretty they sure are probably businesses of some sort rather than gangster politicians. Respect , integrity, etc etc

Take me on if you are up for it on this subject I've loads of dirt to spill
;D

Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!
.
Born and reared Shanty man, love a good scrap. Saying that but got my head knocked in good few times 😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on October 28, 2020, 09:20:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 07:08:11 PM
Quote from: skeog on October 28, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Genuine mistake imo money has been repaid so end of story.

Maolisa Mc Hugh is a trained accountant so i think you need to take off the blinkers
If he's a trained accountant (or otherwise) why did he or anyone else in SF think they'd get away with it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 28, 2020, 10:51:38 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 28, 2020, 09:20:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2020, 07:08:11 PM
Quote from: skeog on October 28, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Genuine mistake imo money has been repaid so end of story.

Maolisa Mc Hugh is a trained accountant so i think you need to take off the blinkers
If he's a trained accountant (or otherwise) why did he or anyone else in SF think they'd get away with it?

Maybe banking on civil service incompetence
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on October 28, 2020, 11:17:36 PM
My god Stormont is one amateur set up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 29, 2020, 12:04:08 PM
Sinn Fein should know better, they don't need the money. The lack of a clear and unambiguous apology for the lateness of return is disappointing. They need to get a f**king grip. It will not be too long before FF/FG start casting aspirations, with some foundation. The SDLP are at it already. And whilst the SDLP's policy of slagging off SF without proposing a feasible alternative is annoying, so is the entitlement that some SF reps and local organisations have. Nolan is a biased anti SF broadcaster, so why give him ammunition (no pun intended), that there are anti SF leakers in Stormont is also reprehensible but again why give them something to leak. The biggest scandal in NI at the moment is the millions that DUP led departments have funnelled in to assorted renewable energy schemes, but shit like this from some in SF gives them cover. O'Neill is a poor Northern leader and needs to go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 29, 2020, 12:18:44 PM
I see Maoliosa McHughs solicitor has written to Nolan re some accuastions 'inaccurate asserttions' made on his show. Anyonwe know what was said? or just general use of name ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: delgany on October 29, 2020, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 29, 2020, 12:04:08 PM
Sinn Fein should know better, they don't need the money. The lack of a clear and unambiguous apology for the lateness of return is disappointing. They need to get a f**king grip. It will not be too long before FF/FG start casting aspirations, with some foundation. The SDLP are at it already. And whilst the SDLP's policy of slagging off SF without proposing a feasible alternative is annoying, so is the entitlement that some SF reps and local organisations have. Nolan is a biased anti SF broadcaster, so why give him ammunition (no pun intended), that there are anti SF leakers in Stormont is also reprehensible but again why give them something to leak. The biggest scandal in NI at the moment is the millions that DUP led departments have funnelled in to assorted renewable energy schemes, but shit like this from some in SF gives them cover. O'Neill is a poor Northern leader and needs to go.

Absolutely....RHi costing £millions, aneoberic  digester costing millions ....Nolan total over the top about £30k, that hadn't actually been requested / spent by SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on October 29, 2020, 01:06:47 PM
What a load of waffle about an administration error Nolan is some stirrer of the pot.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on October 29, 2020, 01:09:16 PM
While I admire your loyalty skeog it isnt an admin error.

The issue here is why was it only paid back when Fat Chops came sniffing?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
They knew rightly. Of course they knew. It wasn't a small amount of money.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 01:26:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 29, 2020, 12:18:44 PM
I see Maoliosa McHughs solicitor has written to Nolan re some accuastions 'inaccurate asserttions' made on his show. Anyonwe know what was said? or just general use of name ?

Basically said it didn't go to my personal account, it went to SF account, I knew about it and neither I nor party done anything until uncovered. Snakes. Im telling you boys, Tiocfaidh an lá inár dtogfaidh an bó a ruball. Open your eyes to these charlatans before it is too late.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 29, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
All three have "resigned" (sacked i would say)

Is there a high paying community post Elisha can slide into in Derry ? She has been an absolute liability for SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Will it ever end on October 29, 2020, 03:27:25 PM
That's some response by Sinn Fein!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 29, 2020, 03:31:13 PM
Glad to see that mouth piece McCallion gone. How SF let some of these clowns anywhere near the public is beyond me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 29, 2020, 03:31:22 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 29, 2020, 03:27:25 PM
That's some response by Sinn Fein!

Yep I was pleasantly surprised, not often you see that in the 6 counties
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 29, 2020, 03:34:07 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 29, 2020, 03:27:25 PM
That's some response by Sinn Fein!
This is the correct response by SF and a welcome change, it will be interesting to see if legal action continues against Nolan. The party is claiming that McHugh had ordered repayment. If there is correspondence proving that he did so earlier this year Nolan could be in difficulty. good to see the back of McCallion though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 03:36:08 PM
Whadda mistakea to makea!  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 03:40:45 PM
What did I tell yous all months ago about her.
Tip of the iceberg. Like the Mafia in Derry City. Not republicans at all.  The big prize for Mary Lou is Dublin , she couldn't let this slide. I don't know why they should be applauded as every big party in ROI have sacked people recently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 29, 2020, 03:52:29 PM
Will she resign her Seanad seat?
They're unlikely to win a by election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Will it ever end on October 29, 2020, 03:55:20 PM
In my eyes a definite shift from SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 29, 2020, 03:55:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 29, 2020, 03:52:29 PM
Will she resign her Seanad seat?
They're unlikely to win a by election.

Has done.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: delgany on October 29, 2020, 03:56:07 PM
Mc Callion' s situation certainly completely separate to the other two. She was the joint account holder. Two Party officials gone in Upper Bann and West Tyrone as a consequence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 03:57:16 PM
Whats the story with the West Tyrone one? Did McHugh know about the money and instruct a party official to pay it back, which they did not do?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: delgany on October 29, 2020, 04:01:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 03:57:16 PM
Whats the story with the West Tyrone one? Did McHugh know about the money and instruct a party official to pay it back, which they did not do?

Seems to be that way!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on October 29, 2020, 04:08:54 PM
By NI standards this is a fairly big move by Mary Lou.  She obviously knows that the form in NI is that no one resigns!  Quite clear McCallion has been sacked.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on October 29, 2020, 04:16:06 PM
So the £10k went from LPS to McCallion and her husband's joint personal bank account?  That raises more questions!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: North Man on October 29, 2020, 04:29:50 PM
Is Elisha not part of the SF establishment being a neice of Martina A.
She was/is a serious liability and was the best asset for Eastwood in the last election.
Bid statement from Mary Lou, it will be intresting to see if there is a 6 county fall out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on October 29, 2020, 04:34:13 PM
Quote from: North Man on October 29, 2020, 04:29:50 PM
Is Elisha not part of the SF establishment being a neice of Martina A.
She was/is a serious liability and was the best asset for Eastwood in the last election.
Bid statement from Mary Lou, it will be intresting to see if there is a 6 county fall out.

You'd have thought those involved would be better keeping their heads down and hoping that it passes over swiftly..

Shinners have a bit of work to do to prove to the General public that they aren't there to line their own pockets like a republican version of the DUP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 04:50:32 PM
I never had any time for her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on October 29, 2020, 04:52:12 PM
Actually its a vote winner this decisive action taken by ML shows she is a strong leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:20:39 PM
Quote from: skeog on October 29, 2020, 04:52:12 PM
Actually its a vote winner this decisive action taken by ML shows she is a strong leader.

Same as Varadkar and Martin then? Sure they are sacking one steady
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on October 29, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
So three "resignations". No hanging about there. ML McD acknowledges and apologises for their behaviour. Had this been the DUP it would have been "internally investigated" and swept under the carpet
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
So three "resignations". No hanging about there. ML McD acknowledges and apologises for their behaviour. Had this been the DUP it would have been "internally investigated" and swept under the carpet

The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on October 29, 2020, 05:56:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
So three "resignations". No hanging about there. ML McD acknowledges and apologises for their behaviour. Had this been the DUP it would have been "internally investigated" and swept under the carpet

The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.
Aye so swift they even had tribunals
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
So three "resignations". No hanging about there. ML McD acknowledges and apologises for their behaviour. Had this been the DUP it would have been "internally investigated" and swept under the carpet

The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

Are you aware of the history of FF? They would make the DUP blush.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
So three "resignations". No hanging about there. ML McD acknowledges and apologises for their behaviour. Had this been the DUP it would have been "internally investigated" and swept under the carpet

The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

Are you aware of the history of FF? They would make the DUP blush.

Well aware of it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 07:10:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
So three "resignations". No hanging about there. ML McD acknowledges and apologises for their behaviour. Had this been the DUP it would have been "internally investigated" and swept under the carpet

The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

Are you aware of the history of FF? They would make the DUP blush.

Well aware of it

Are you?

They have a fella who took bungs from dodgy property developers as leader of the state.

What swift action was taken there?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 07:23:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 07:10:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
So three "resignations". No hanging about there. ML McD acknowledges and apologises for their behaviour. Had this been the DUP it would have been "internally investigated" and swept under the carpet

The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

Are you aware of the history of FF? They would make the DUP blush.

Well aware of it

Are you?

They have a fella who took bungs from dodgy property developers as leader of the state.

What swift action was taken there?

Not sure? What year? Anyhow my point is we shouldn't be praising party leaders for taking action when all parties in the Republic have done that recently.
We gave a finance minister who hasn't apologised for calling a man who was beat to death a criminal and a deputy first minister who broke all her own rules and to this day hasn't apologised for that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 07:34:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 07:23:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 07:10:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
So three "resignations". No hanging about there. ML McD acknowledges and apologises for their behaviour. Had this been the DUP it would have been "internally investigated" and swept under the carpet

The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

Are you aware of the history of FF? They would make the DUP blush.

Well aware of it

Are you?

They have a fella who took bungs from dodgy property developers as leader of the state.

What swift action was taken there?

Not sure? What year? Anyhow my point is we shouldn't be praising party leaders for taking action when all parties in the Republic have done that recently.
We gave a finance minister who hasn't apologised for calling a man who was beat to death a criminal and a deputy first minister who broke all her own rules and to this day hasn't apologised for that

Why does it matter when? What matters is that he was up to his neck in corruption yet has never been taken to account for it or being made address this properly.

The leader of the 26 is a guy who took a bung from a dodgy property developer, lodged it in his wife's bank account, did not account for how it was spent, lied in front of a tribunal about it and then claimed he was just forgetful. All nicely swept under the carpet though.

https://villagemagazine.ie/micheal-martin-evasive-and-misleading-in-2020/

QuoteAnswers, provided by a spokesperson for Fianna Fáil,  to the questions posed by Village to Micheál Martin, about his relationship with developers Owen O'Callaghan and John Fleming, are evasive and misleading.

By Frank Connolly.


Micheál Martin's Holiday Home, Courtmacsherry: built by Fianna Fáil donor, John Fleming
The Fianna Fáil leader, Micheál Martin, sounds more like a man under pressure than one who looks most likely to be the next Taoiseach. During the seven-way TV leadership debates and in other interviews, Martin has been on the defensive across a range of policy issues and apparently obsessed with the political threat posed by Sinn Féin.

He has desperately sought to distance himself from the "ghosts of Fianna Fáil" past and his decade-long participation in the Bertie Ahern-led governments that destroyed the economy and damaged the fundamentals of Irish society. 

His utterances on health, housing, childcare and pensions, among other matters, sound hollow and unconvincing given that he was at the heart of the decision-making which contributed to the inequities which have beset these vital areas of public provision for so long.

During RTÉ interviews with Sean O'Rourke on Wednesday (29th January) and Bryan Dobson on Friday (31st January), Micheál Martin stumbled into another potential minefield when he was asked about the close ties his party has enjoyed with builders and developers in the past and whether he could keep his distance in the future.

In reality, the financial crash ensured that a lot of distance was put between his party and the builders when many of them went bust or into the bad bank of NAMA which was created by the last Fianna Fáil government in 2009. It was set up to bail out the distressed banks but despite all assurances to the contrary, the agency has also bailed out many of the developers that previously populated the party's Galway tent in the 'boomier' times.

The legacy of that relationship continues to haunt the party and while Martin avoided much of the damage suffered by his former colleagues who came under deeper tribunal scrutiny his responses to difficult questions on the subject have not always been convincing. 

The past relationship with property developers, speculators and landlords also touches on a core issue relating to Fianna Fáil's ability or will to tackle the housing crisis. Martin has called for much-needed major investment by local authorities and the State in the construction of public and affordable housing to meet the current emergency. But it is Fianna Fáil-led governments since the 1980s that have divested local authorities of the resources and remit to build decent social and affordable homes and handed responsibility to the private developers and builders.

The gap in provision for those struggling with rents was filled by the obscene subsidies to private landlords facilitated under the Housing Assistance Programme. After the crisis Fine Gael-led governments transferred vast amounts of public assets and property to heavily-tax-incentivised global funds, including through the NAMA process.

In its election policy on housing, Fianna Fáil's proposals to give one Euro for every three saved by first-time buyers would encourage builders to hike the house prices as happened with similar policies in the past. The party's plan to reduce levies on developers would inevitably be pocketed rather than contribute to lower costs for home-buyers, if previous experience is anything to go by. 

The corrupt relationship between Fianna Fáil and other politicians and the "builders" was ruthlessly exposed at the Planning and Payments Tribunal (also known as both the 'Flood' and the 'Mahon' tribunal) which was established in late 1997 following revelations concerning Ray Burke. It concluded with a deeply damning report in 2012, having exposed an extraordinary litany of illicit payments to politicians since the late 1980s.

Micheál Martin was drawn into its remit when the tribunal examined payments made by Cork developer, Owen O'Callaghan, to various TDs, councillors and others from 1988 to the late 1990s.

O'Callaghan was accused by his former and reluctant business partner, Tom Gilmartin, of bribing a large number of national and local politicians, with the help of lobbyist Frank Dunlop, spending upwards of £1.8 million in the corruption process. The remit of the tribunal was restricted to Dublin and did not extend to those who were abusing the zoning and planning regulations across the rest of the country.


Owen O'Callaghan
Martin, who served as a councillor and then TD in Cork, was brought into the Flood tribunal because he received political donations from O'Callaghan. The first donation of £1000 was made to Martin around June 1989 during the general election after which he was elected a TD for Cork South-Central for the first time.

Scrutiny by the tribunal of the intent of all donations to Fianna Fáil during that election was intense. This was also the election campaign during which then justice minister, Ray Burke, received large payments from developers totalling some £80,000 which directly led to the establishment of the Flood tribunal eight years later. In June 1989, environment minister, Pádraig Flynn took a £50,000 donation to Fianna Fáil from Gilmartin and lodged it to his own bank account.   

Martin told the tribunal that he cashed the £1000 cheque he received from O'Callaghan in 1989 and spent it on his election expenses. During the local election campaign in 1991, Martin received a further donation of £5000 from O'Callaghan through the developer's company Riga Ltd. In his testimony to the tribunal, Martin said that the generous donation (equivalent to more than €10,000 today) was "not for me alone" but also "for the party's expenditure in the ward". He was unable to provide full receipts for the spending. At that time, politicians were not required to issue receipts for such contributions or to register political donations.

What was unusual in regard to the payment was that the cheque was lodged to his wife's bank account in Dublin. In his written statement to the tribunal, Martin explained that:

"With regards to the donation of £5000 made on or about June 1991, £3,500 was lodged to my wife, Mary's AIB account, Baggot Street on 4th July, 1991.....the balance of £1,500 was cashed and applied for political expenditure. On the 18th July 1991, a further £2,500 was withdrawn from this account which I believe was applied for political expenditure at the time. For the record my wife lived and worked in Dublin through 1984 to 1991".

He also told the tribunal that his wife had, since 1984, been a "significant organiser" in his electoral team and would have dealt with "the financial aspects of it"....in terms of lodgements and "paying bills and so on".

He said he had "no doubt in his mind" that the monies were spent for electoral purposes although he could not provide all the documents to confirm this. He also pointed out that there was no legislative requirement to maintain separate accounts for political donations at the time.

O'Callaghan made a third donation of £200 to Micheál Martin in 1992 by sponsoring a Race Night organised by his local cumann in the constituency.

While Martin was mayor of Cork in 1993, O'Callaghan made a contribution to a charity of which the politician was a patron. Martin approached a number of business people in the city to contribute to the Atlantic Pond Fund, including O'Callaghan who gave £5000 to the cause. The funds were used to restore the Atlantic Pond in Cork.

There is no suggestion of anything improper in relation to these donations given to Micheál Martin.

During this period of the early 1990s, Martin was identified by Cork and national media as a supporter or 'political associate' of O'Callaghan. The Cork developer was among the most powerful of the city's businessmen and was responsible for the Merchant's Quay shopping centre along the River Lee and other city projects as well as the Douglas Shopping Centre further out of town.

He also assembled land for the large Mahon Point retail and business park he developed close to the Lee tunnel and the city's ring road. The tunnel was a matter of some controversy at the tribunal following an allegation by Gilmartin that O'Callaghan had been able to influence its route. The claim was rubbished on the basis that the route was chosen before O'Callaghan owned any land in the area but it eventually landed in 1999 close to the Mahon site.

According to Gilmartin, O'Callaghan saw Martin as a potential future leader of the party in which he had significant influence. O'Callaghan was appointed to the board of Bord Gáis by Charles Haughey during his time as Taoiseach in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

When Albert Reynolds ousted Haughey as FF leader in February 1992, the takeover was supported by O'Callaghan and other key, backroom, business figures in the party.

O'Callaghan was one of a small number of supporters who were approached by FF party treasurer, Ray MacSharry, to give a donation of £100,000 each to help clear the party debt of over £3 million in September 1993. He also helped to organise the now infamous dinner in the home of local Cork businessman Niall Welch, in March 1994.

Gilmartin gave evidence concerning details of the dinner event, information he said was given to him by O'Callaghan. The tribunal, separately, then gathered significant new insights into the nature of the party's fundraising operation, led by its bag man in chief, Des Richardson, a close ally of Bertie Ahern and a member of the Dublin TD's so called 'Drumcondra mafia'. 

According to Gilmartin, he was informed by O' Callaghan around the time of the event that Reynolds had arrived in Cork by helicopter on the evening of 11th March, 1994 to attend the dinner. The Taoiseach addressed "nine or ten" people who each left an envelope on the table containing between £5000 and £10,000, the tribunal heard. Two amounts of £25,000, the proceeds of the event, were lodged some weeks later in the Fianna Fáil bank account by Richardson.

According to Gilmartin's statement, O'Callaghan claimed to have handed a £150,000 cash payment to Reynolds in the bedroom of the Cork developer's home later that night. The Taoiseach returned by helicopter to Dublin in order to catch the government jet to travel to the US for the annual St Patrick's Day celebrations and to meet the US President.

Martin, then a backbench TD, was not among the witnesses who gave evidence to the tribunal about the dinner party in March 1994 and there is no evidence that he knew anything about it, notwithstanding his friendship and association with O'Callaghan.

Among the guests who attended the dinner party was Bandon-based builder, John Fleming, of John J Fleming Construction, who left over £6,000 on the table at the end of the dinner. No records of the individual donors were retained by the party and no receipts were issued. The dinner was also attended by then agriculture minister, Joe Walsh and then FF general secretary, Pat Farrell.

Village asked Martin whether he had any discussions with anyone in Fianna Fáil or anyone else, including attendees Owen O'Callaghan or John Fleming, about the Fianna Fáil party fund-raiser in the home of Niall Welch in Cork on March 11th, 1994,  before or after the event; and what was the substance of any such discussions. He was also asked whether he is satisfied that all the monies raised on that occasion were transferred to party funds.

A Fianna Fail spokesperson replied: "All of these issues were dealt with in great detail by the Mahon Tribunal eight years ago and are being resurrected now as a threadbare attempt to smear the party leader".

From Seven Heads in West Cork, John Fleming grew the small building-contractor business he formed in 1975 to become a significant player in the 1980s after successfully winning major public contracts including for school and water scheme projects across the county. In the late 1980s, he was chosen to build the Glanmire bypass, one of the largest road-builds in the country at the time.

A successful house builder on the newly zoned lands around expanding Cork city, Fleming also developed what was, at the time, a luxury holiday-home complex at Courtmacsherry in picturesque West Cork, in the late 1990s. In December, 1999, Micheál Martin took out a mortgage of £135,000 from Irish Life and Permanent to purchase 4 Meadowlands, one of the first of the large houses built in the scheme overlooking the sea in the small holiday village.

The property was purchased from John J Fleming Construction, one of the companies in the larger Fleming Group.

By this time, Martin was in government after being appointed to his first cabinet position by Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, in 1997. A former school teacher, he was made Minister for Education before he was given the health portfolio in 2000 and then served as Enterprise, Trade and Employment minister from 2004 to 2007.

In January 2007, Fleming travelled to Hungary with Martin as a member of an Enterprise Ireland delegation headed by the minister and later announced that he had won a contract to develop a wind-farm project in the eastern European country. Later that year, Fleming's company made a donation of €900 to the minister's general election campaign.

Three years later, following the property and financial crash and with total debts of more than €1 billion, the Fleming Construction Group was forced into liquidation. 

Fleming had invested heavily in the property market during the boom years and his purchases included the Inchydoney Hotel, which gained some renown for hosting the Fianna Fáil think-in in 2004 and the Sheraton in Fota Island, both in Cork, as well as the Limerick Radisson.

His €165 million acquisition in December 2005 of a 7.7 acre site in Sandyford, Dublin at the peak of the property bubble proved disastrous. Fleming's companies were place in liquidation and he filed for bankruptcy in the UK in late 2010, leaving a trail of unpaid creditors including local tradespeople and contractors in the Cork area behind.

On 11th March, 2010, six days after Fleming's property company went into liquidation (on 5th March, 2010) the Irish Permanent mortgage on the Courtmacsherry holiday home purchased by Martin, was cancelled, according to documents lodged with the Land Registry. There is a reference in the Land Registry documents connecting the charge on the holiday property to the Martin's family home  in Ballinlough, Cork which they purchased many years previously. 

In July 2009, a further charge "for present and future advances" with AIB was lodged with the Land Registry in respect of the Courtmacsherry property.

Village asked Martin to explain the circumstances surrounding the acquisition of the property and the cancellation of the loan on 11th March 2010.

The Fianna Fáil spokesperson replied: "The property was bought through an auctioneer with a mortgage in 1999.  In 2010, Micheál switched mortgage provider and the loan was restructured to include the balance of this loan and refurbishment of Micheál's family home.  Repayment of this mortgage is ongoing".

Asked was there any significance in the fact that the loan was cancelled, according to Land Registry documents, just six days after the company which sold the property, owned by John Fleming, went into liquidation (on 5th March, 2010), the spokesperson said:


"None.  See above.  These questions clearly represent an attempt to raise a controversy in the dying days of the General Election campaign where there is none".

Martin's relationship with the builders and businesspeople did not stop at O'Callaghan and Fleming, however, and other donors stepped in to provide significant financial assistance as his political career progressed and his influence continued to increase with his growing role in national government. Even before he entered cabinet for the first time, Martin had some knowledge of the heat of battle when corporate interests and politics collide.

During the current election campaign Simon Coveney has referred to Martin in less than complimentary terms. Coveney, who shares the Cork South-Central constituency with the FF leader, claimed that he knew Martin "better than most". He added that Martin is "not the person" he would want leading Ireland in the negotiations on the future trading relationship between Brexit Britain and the EU.

While Coveney had previously suggested that he could go into government with Martin, in certain circumstances, his more recent comments reminded more seasoned observers of the bitter controversy surrounding the departure of the Tánaiste's late father from cabinet in the mid 1990s.

The controversy erupted in the summer of 1995 when the Minister for Energy and Communications, Michael Lowry, alleged that a "cosy cartel" was operating in the acquisition of state assets. Lowry had refused to sanction the purchase by Owen O'Callaghan of three acres of land from CIE at Horgan's Quay along the River Lee in Cork city. 

During the ensuing row, the Minister for Defence and the Marine, Hugh Coveney, was forced to resign after it emerged that he had inappropriately canvassed for a tender from Bord Gáis for the quantity surveyor's firm he owned.

O'Callaghan was a board member of Bord Gáis and subsequently boasted to Tom Gilmartin that he had been instrumental in forcing Coveney's demotion to junior minister. Lowry was forced to resign later that year over his involvement in the award of the second mobile-phone licence to businessman and Fine Gael supporter, Denis O'Brien. 

O'Callaghan, who had good relations with key people in CIE, subsequently secured the purchase of Horgan's Quay after a vigorous public relations and lobbying exercise led by Frank Dunlop. In the Dáil, O'Callaghan was ably defended by Cork TD Batt O'Keeffe, and Liam Lawlor TD, both of whom had received generous financial assistance from the developer.

Micheál Martin also defended the Cork businessman during the heated Dáil exchanges. Hugh Coveney, father of Simon, was a popular figure in Cork and died some years later in a tragic accident.

Asked by Village whether Martin had any discussions with Owen O'Callaghan about his intended purchase of a site at Horgan's Quay, Cork in the mid 1990s before he made statements in the Dáil or elsewhere on the matter, the spokesperson said:

"All of these issues were dealt with in great detail by the Mahon Tribunal eight years ago and are being resurrected now as a threadbare attempt to smear the party leader".

There is no reference in the Flood or Mahon tribunal transcripts to the Horgan's Quay controversy.   

Martin also received contributions from construction giant, Ascon, to assist his 2007 general election campaign. Two donations of €900 each were given to the politician by Ascon Gable Developments in Douglas and Ascon Ltd in Little Island, both in Cork.

Three years earlier, in 2004, Ascon was awarded an €11 million contract to build a new wing at St John's Hospital in Enniscorthy. In November 2008, Ascon and another well-known player in the Irish construction sector, Rohcon, were rebranded by their Dutch parent company as BAM Ltd.

Ascon was one of the main recipients of public contracts in Ireland for many years and there is nothing to suggest that they received or were awarded any tenders, including the one at St John's Hospital, Enniscorthy other than on merit or indeed that Martin had any role in the award.

BAM is at the centre of the storm surrounding the massive overspend on the National Children's Hospital in Dublin and is also building the long-delayed €80 million convention centre in Cork city, which is also heavily state-subsidised. While critical of the delays in the project which is to be located at the former Beamish & Crawford site close to the Lee, Martin has been less than vocal on the escalating cost of the State's contribution to the project, which Coveney has been promoting.   

In his various ministries, Martin displayed competence and efficiency and his role in the introduction of the smoking ban while health minister is often recalled, including by himself, as a courageous move, given the power of the global tobacco and local liquor and restaurant interests which lobbied heavily against it. He often cites improvements in heart and cancer care during his tenure as other important life-saving measures which were introduced under his stewardship.

However as health minister, he was also responsible for the dismantling of the local health board structures and the introduction of the Health Service Executive, without removing much of the bureaucracy, or the excess management and administration that has since contributed hugely to the dysfunctionality and escalating financial costs of the health service.

He was fortunate to be in charge of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment before the economic collapse and moved to foreign affairs in 2008 as the Fianna Fáil-Green government struggled to keep the lights on and was forced into the disastrous bank guarantee. Despite over ten years in government, he managed to avoid being at the scene of the crash when it destroyed the lives of so many citizens and left a legacy of debt for generations to come. 

As foreign minister, he was responsible for keeping the ten-year-old Good Friday Agreement (GFA) alive during a period when the power-sharing institutions were relatively stable. During this time, he had regular engagements with some of those he now derides as the 'shadowy' people behind Sinn Féin's decision-making process. He did not appear to have any problems dealing with them during his time as foreign minister. Nor did he contribute to any significant deepening of the all-island aspirations of the GFA despite his party's claim to be the inheritors of true republicanism.

As the curtain came down on Bertie Ahern's three-term reign, Martin was one of those who stuck by his leader until the end while the rest of the country was reeling from the then Taoiseach's convoluted and downright false explanations for the huge payments into various accounts under his control in the early 1990s.

The monies in question were directly related to the tribunal's investigation into alleged payments to Ahern by O'Callaghan relating to Quarryvale and the tax designation of the developer's retail centre at Golden Island in Athlone. They also included the lodgement in early December 1994, by the politician's partner, Celia Larkin, to an account Ahern controlled of IR£28,772.90 – the exact equivalent of $45,000 at that day's trading rate in the AIB branch. Tribunal investigators and the evidence suggested that the payment was connected to the proposed national stadium at Neilstown.

Martin was quick to deny any contact with O'Callaghan and Ahern when his possible involvement in the stadium proposal was put to him by tribunal lawyers and again during the 2011 general election.

When the tribunal lawyer asked Martin about an entry in Ahern's ministerial diary for 13th April, 1994, indicating that "Owen O'Callaghan" and "M Martin" met him at 3.30 p.m. that day, his answer was at first evasive and then less than credible. He said he had no memory of such a meeting.  When it was put to him that the meeting may have concerned the proposed national stadium, Martin responded that he had "no involvement, good bad or indifferent" in the stadium plan.

Martin had previously denied having any meetings with O'Callaghan and also disputed an entry in Frank Dunlop's diary for 13th November 1991, which referred to a meeting at 10.00 a.m. and to "M Martin room LH".

After promising to consult his records in relation to the 1991 meeting, he later told the tribunal that as a backbencher he did not keep a diary and therefore had no way of confirming whether he had attended either meeting. Martin was present in Leinster House on the dates in question but insisted that he was not the "M Martin" named in the diary entries.

When he was confronted with the serious credibility gap in these responses during the 2011 election campaign, a party spokesman claimed that the tribunal had accepted his evidence that he was not the "M Martin" named in the diaries. There is no evidence that the tribunal ever accepted this claim. The consequence of his blank denials about any such meetings with O'Callaghan and others was to ensure that he avoided being dragged into the lengthy and deeply embarrassing tribunal inquiry into the stadium proposal which did so much damage to Ahern, not least when it came to the "$45,000 question".

Asked by TV3 reporter, Sinéad Desmond, about the diary entries during the same election campaign, Martin was less than categorical during the exchange.

Desmond: "What about the meeting mentioned in The Mahon Tribunal?"

Martin: "I never had a meeting with Bertie and Owen O'Callaghan".

Desmond: "It's all there recorded in his diary".

Martin: "But it wasn't you see even the tribunal itself didn't seem to be going into (pause)I don't want to be going into this because it's based on the report (pause) didn't seem to be too clear about it (pause) never any indication in advance that that was going to be raised (pause) I certainly didn't...(trails off)"

Martin has overseen his party's slow but steady recovery from the meltdown of that February 2011 general election after taking over from Brian Cowen in a bitter leadership battle just weeks before it was called. As leader of his depleted party he had little power to challenge the Fine Gael-Labour coalition and even less credibility as it picked up the pieces of the shattered economy and adopted some of the austerity policies first introduced by Fianna Fáil.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in "wee decky the pensioner batterer" and Elisha's personal account?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.

List the dung.

Anyhow I'm no fan of FF or Fg and FF in particular has long history of corruption but recently they have been quicker to take action.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 29, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.

List the dung.

Anyhow I'm no fan of FF or Fg and FF in particular has long history of corruption but recently they have been quicker to take action.
😂 how annoyed are you that SF actually took the right action on this.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 09:04:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 29, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.

List the dung.

Anyhow I'm no fan of FF or Fg and FF in particular has long history of corruption but recently they have been quicker to take action.
😂 how annoyed are you that SF actually took the right action on this.

Are you serious.This has been best night for me in long time.

I've been banging on about Elisha for donkeys. That's one knocked off the list of the Derry crony brigade. Viva la republique!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on October 29, 2020, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.

List the dung.

Anyhow I'm no fan of FF or Fg and FF in particular has long history of corruption but recently they have been quicker to take action.

List recent instances of FF and FG being quick to take action  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 09:23:44 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on October 29, 2020, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.

List the dung.

Anyhow I'm no fan of FF or Fg and FF in particular has long history of corruption but recently they have been quicker to take action.

List recent instances of FF and FG being quick to take action  :)

Naw, youve Google yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 29, 2020, 09:49:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 09:04:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 29, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.

List the dung.

Anyhow I'm no fan of FF or Fg and FF in particular has long history of corruption but recently they have been quicker to take action.
😂 how annoyed are you that SF actually took the right action on this.

Are you serious.This has been best night for me in long time.

I've been banging on about Elisha for donkeys. That's one knocked off the list of the Derry crony brigade. Viva la republique!

Come on, it's ok to admit you were hoping to get a few more miles outa this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 10:01:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 29, 2020, 09:49:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 09:04:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 29, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.

List the dung.

Anyhow I'm no fan of FF or Fg and FF in particular has long history of corruption but recently they have been quicker to take action.
😂 how annoyed are you that SF actually took the right action on this.

Are you serious.This has been best night for me in long time.

I've been banging on about Elisha for donkeys. That's one knocked off the list of the Derry crony brigade. Viva la republique!

Come on, it's ok to admit you were hoping to get a few more miles outa this.

Can't get much more out of it than her getting sacked tbh. Mar a dúirt mé cheana, tháinig an lá inár thóg an bó a ruball
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on October 29, 2020, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 09:23:44 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on October 29, 2020, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.

List the dung.

Anyhow I'm no fan of FF or Fg and FF in particular has long history of corruption but recently they have been quicker to take action.

List recent instances of FF and FG being quick to take action  :)

Naw, youve Google yourself.
As we thought. Fairly backed out of that one. Tells people to list the shite he talks but runs a mile when told to back up his own statements. Typical stooper behaviour.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 11:58:19 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on October 29, 2020, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 09:23:44 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on October 29, 2020, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 29, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
The only reason Mary Lou done this is because of the parties  presence in southern politics where all parties in the main take swift action. Normal politics.

LOL

I've read some dung from you on this thread but that one takes the absolute biscuit!

Fire away ,list the dung.

Anyhow let's not get away from the point too much. How the hell did the money end up in wee decky the pensioner batterer and Elisha's personal account?

I've no idea how. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible.

My point was merely in reference to the absolute nonsense you posted above.

List the dung.

Anyhow I'm no fan of FF or Fg and FF in particular has long history of corruption but recently they have been quicker to take action.

List recent instances of FF and FG being quick to take action  :)

Naw, youve Google yourself.
As we thought. Fairly backed out of that one. Tells people to list the shite he talks but runs a mile when told to back up his own statements. Typical stooper behaviour.

Ach for god sake. Have you not been watching the news at all. Dara Calleary, Barry Cowan, Jerry Buttimer. Stooper? I have just called out FF, how could I be a stooper? I know its hard , keep up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 30, 2020, 09:47:03 AM
I'd say SF leadership are delighted that McCallion has given them an opportunity to get rid without causing a rift.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armamike on October 30, 2020, 12:30:38 PM
Pretty low act in taking the money especially given what legitimate businesses are going through at the moment. She won't be a huge loss to politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Will it ever end on October 30, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
I cannot see any corruption on behalf of LPS - they've got money to all companies claiming small business rates relief - whether that's a wind turbine / AD Plant or constituency office - it's over to the individual to deem themselves not to require the payment & return it promptly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.

Personal account with her thug husband.

This is the woman who was very likely in the room at the volunteers dance 2 years ago at which colombian party powder was being dished about
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 01:21:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.

Personal account with her thug husband.

This is the woman who was very likely in the room at the volunteers dance 2 years ago at which colombian party powder was being dished about

Can't leave a story like that hanging. Where was this?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:32:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 01:21:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.

Personal account with her thug husband.

This is the woman who was very likely in the room at the volunteers dance 2 years ago at which colombian party powder was being dished about

Can't leave a story like that hanging. Where was this?

Volunteers dance in Ballybofey. A photo was taken showing lines on a hotel room table, new and up and coming Galliagh SF star Conchúr McCauley and Elisha'a election officer took the hit and disappeared overnight.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 01:49:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.

Personal account with her thug husband.

This is the woman who was very likely in the room at the volunteers dance 2 years ago at which colombian party powder was being dished about
Is that a fact? That's how it reads but wasn't sure. It does stink and she has rightly been roaded regardless.

I know you love a bit of shinner bashing, but that second part is 100% true. Derry deserves a much better candidate and effort from SF. They deservedly lost the seat their and that's coming form someone who voted for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JoG2 on October 30, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.

Personal account with her thug husband.

This is the woman who was very likely in the room at the volunteers dance 2 years ago at which colombian party powder was being dished about

Derry's celebrity party couple, Dosh and Decks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on October 30, 2020, 02:07:28 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 01:49:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.

Personal account with her thug husband.

This is the woman who was very likely in the room at the volunteers dance 2 years ago at which colombian party powder was being dished about
Is that a fact? That's how it reads but wasn't sure. It does stink and she has rightly been roaded regardless.

I know you love a bit of shinner bashing, but that second part is 100% true. Derry deserves a much better candidate and effort from SF. They deservedly lost the seat their and that's coming form someone who voted for them.

Nothing wrong with a bit of Shinner-bashing Hi Mucker
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on October 30, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:32:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 01:21:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.

Personal account with her thug husband.

This is the woman who was very likely in the room at the volunteers dance 2 years ago at which colombian party powder was being dished about

Can't leave a story like that hanging. Where was this?

Volunteers dance in Ballybofey. A photo was taken showing lines on a hotel room table, new and up and coming Galliagh SF star Conchúr McCauley and Elisha'a election officer took the hit and disappeared overnight.

What SIZE of Hotel room was it ? Lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 02:09:04 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 30, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.

Personal account with her thug husband.

This is the woman who was very likely in the room at the volunteers dance 2 years ago at which colombian party powder was being dished about

Derry's celebrity party couple, Dosh and Decks.

;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 02:20:55 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 01:49:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on October 29, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Surely the spotlight should turn to the LPS as to why the money was paid out in the first place. Maybe fat boy Nolan should investigate that or am I'm missing something here

The civil service will get the hammering it (often rightly) deserves. There is some mitigation in the fact that this was an extraordinary circumstance where money had to be paid out quickly. There wasn't time for designing a foolproof scheme. There's perhaps a whiff of the usual incompetence but not of corruption or wrongdoing, which is absolutely the case with McCallion.

Did she have her personal joint account down as the account for the constituency office? Its just so blatant.

Just says an account to which she is a joint signatory.

Personal account with her thug husband.

This is the woman who was very likely in the room at the volunteers dance 2 years ago at which colombian party powder was being dished about
Is that a fact? That's how it reads but wasn't sure. It does stink and she has rightly been roaded regardless.

I know you love a bit of shinner bashing, but that second part is 100% true. Derry deserves a much better candidate and effort from SF. They deservedly lost the seat their and that's coming form someone who voted for them.

I believe so. If it wasn't it was a joint business account for an office that didn't exist, and why would Decky be a signatory on a business account that he has no connection to? This would effectively have given him some operating rights on the account.

I voted SF for 25 years. They were getting 10% in polls when I started voting them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on October 30, 2020, 03:35:15 PM
It's not surprising that LPS made a few f**k ups here.  They were under pressure to get money out quickly and the system prob wasn't as tight as it should have been. IIRC they used the rating list from 2018-2019, so McCallion was still an MP then and prob still had an office. As far as LPS were concerned the property was still occupied.  If you paid your rates by DD you automatically got the payment.
McCallion has admitted that the money went to a personal joint account with her husband that she used to claim expesnes as an MP.  This suggests that her name was down as the ratepayer for that property.  This might be OK since MPs are elected as individuals and not members of a political party.  That's why Wee Nic Sturgeon couldn't force that SNP MP to resign.  So she as an individual rents the office (from SF?), puts her name down as the ratepayer (again that's OK). i'm no expert but I don't think you have to be a trading business to get Small Business Rates Relief.  So she could have easily explained getting the money in the first place. 

Her big mistake was thinking that no one would ever cop on.  I hope she hasn't spent it.

Just wait til they audit the furlough scheme.  Nolan will be on 24hrs a day!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 30, 2020, 03:40:07 PM
Let's face it, the money was going to be kept unless this was uncovered
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on October 30, 2020, 03:43:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 30, 2020, 03:40:07 PM
Let's face it, the money was going to be kept unless this was uncovered

Yep, how they thought they'd get way with this is the hard bit to believe.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 30, 2020, 03:55:36 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 30, 2020, 03:43:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 30, 2020, 03:40:07 PM
Let's face it, the money was going to be kept unless this was uncovered

Yep, how they thought they'd get way with this is the hard bit to believe.

I would say that due to the volume of money being paid out in various grants and schemes and how hectic a time it was  probably hoped they wouldn't be able to go back and check every case. That and SF/DUP seeing themselves as untouchable
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 05:17:50 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 30, 2020, 03:40:07 PM
Let's face it, the money was going to be kept unless this was uncovered

That's the issue here. Anyone shouting "what about LPS' role in it all" is just trying to deflect from the fact that McCallion appears to have been caught dead to rights.

Fear, you've referenced the payment going into a personal amount on several occasions. I'm not saying that's not what happened but can you clarify if you have any actual evidence for this at this point? All the reporting has been carefully worded and I've only seen it refer to an account to which her husband was a joint signatory.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 05:25:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 05:17:50 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 30, 2020, 03:40:07 PM
Let's face it, the money was going to be kept unless this was uncovered

That's the issue here. Anyone shouting "what about LPS' role in it all" is just trying to deflect from the fact that McCallion appears to have been caught dead to rights.

Fear, you've referenced the payment going into a personal amount on several occasions. I'm not saying that's not what happened but can you clarify if you have any actual evidence for this at this point? All the reporting has been carefully worded and I've only seen it refer to an account to which her husband was a joint signatory.
That's the bit that makes me think it was a personal account. But as you say, is that factual?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on October 30, 2020, 05:37:41 PM
If the money didn't go to a personal account, then why was she forced to resign?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on October 30, 2020, 05:42:25 PM
When someone like Suzanne Breen is praising you then you have to acknowledge that SF leadership have acted swiftly to rectify the problem and I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. I'd imagine they'll face further questions but you can't really ask anything else of them so far.

I honestly think this was a bit of opportunism on the behalf of the three individuals caught out. I know shinner-bashing is a fond pastime of many on here but a bit of realism wouldn't go a miss.
For a start - SF are rich and 30k isn't really a whole lot. Don't see why they as a party would risk so much for £30k and think they'd get away with it. Now to a chancer like McCallion her idiocy probably took over and she somehow thought she'd be fine. (Probably something she was used to). The others probably thought along the same lines but haven't heard the details there just yet.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 30, 2020, 05:42:25 PM
When someone like Suzanne Breen is praising you then you have to acknowledge that SF leadership have acted swiftly to rectify the problem and I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. I'd imagine they'll face further questions but you can't really ask anything else of them so far.

I honestly think this was a bit of opportunism on the behalf of the three individuals caught out. I know shinner-bashing is a fond pastime of many on here but a bit of realism wouldn't go a miss.
For a start - SF are rich and 30k isn't really a whole lot. Don't see why they as a party would risk so much for £30k and think they'd get away with it. Now to a chancer like McCallion her idiocy probably took over and she somehow thought she'd be fine. (Probably something she was used to). The others probably thought along the same lines but haven't heard the details there just yet.

This is only tip of iceberg.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 05:51:28 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 05:17:50 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 30, 2020, 03:40:07 PM
Let's face it, the money was going to be kept unless this was uncovered

That's the issue here. Anyone shouting "what about LPS' role in it all" is just trying to deflect from the fact that McCallion appears to have been caught dead to rights.

Fear, you've referenced the payment going into a personal amount on several occasions. I'm not saying that's not what happened but can you clarify if you have any actual evidence for this at this point? All the reporting has been carefully worded and I've only seen it refer to an account to which her husband was a joint signatory.

Nothing concrete , but have been told by local source with sinn fein that that is the case. You would have to wonder why either of them would be signatories on office account though. SF have admin people for that and I'd be astonished if Decky was openly accepted as signatory by local cumann based on his history, if he was I'd say hell rub it up them.
Either way they both knew about it and said nothing .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 08:29:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 05:51:28 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 30, 2020, 05:17:50 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 30, 2020, 03:40:07 PM
Let's face it, the money was going to be kept unless this was uncovered

That's the issue here. Anyone shouting "what about LPS' role in it all" is just trying to deflect from the fact that McCallion appears to have been caught dead to rights.

Fear, you've referenced the payment going into a personal amount on several occasions. I'm not saying that's not what happened but can you clarify if you have any actual evidence for this at this point? All the reporting has been carefully worded and I've only seen it refer to an account to which her husband was a joint signatory.

Nothing concrete , but have been told by local source with sinn fein that that is the case. You would have to wonder why either of them would be signatories on office account though. SF have admin people for that and I'd be astonished if Decky was openly accepted as signatory by local cumann based on his history, if he was I'd say hell rub it up them.
Either way they both knew about it and said nothing .

Well if you, an anonymous poster with a grudge against SF, heard it from some other anonymous source, then it must be true.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 08:30:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 30, 2020, 05:42:25 PM
When someone like Suzanne Breen is praising you then you have to acknowledge that SF leadership have acted swiftly to rectify the problem and I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. I'd imagine they'll face further questions but you can't really ask anything else of them so far.

I honestly think this was a bit of opportunism on the behalf of the three individuals caught out. I know shinner-bashing is a fond pastime of many on here but a bit of realism wouldn't go a miss.
For a start - SF are rich and 30k isn't really a whole lot. Don't see why they as a party would risk so much for £30k and think they'd get away with it. Now to a chancer like McCallion her idiocy probably took over and she somehow thought she'd be fine. (Probably something she was used to). The others probably thought along the same lines but haven't heard the details there just yet.

This is only tip of iceberg.

So you keep saying. Where's the evidence? Put up or shut up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 08:44:29 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 08:30:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 30, 2020, 05:42:25 PM
When someone like Suzanne Breen is praising you then you have to acknowledge that SF leadership have acted swiftly to rectify the problem and I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. I'd imagine they'll face further questions but you can't really ask anything else of them so far.

I honestly think this was a bit of opportunism on the behalf of the three individuals caught out. I know shinner-bashing is a fond pastime of many on here but a bit of realism wouldn't go a miss.
For a start - SF are rich and 30k isn't really a whole lot. Don't see why they as a party would risk so much for £30k and think they'd get away with it. Now to a chancer like McCallion her idiocy probably took over and she somehow thought she'd be fine. (Probably something she was used to). The others probably thought along the same lines but haven't heard the details there just yet.

This is only tip of iceberg.

So you keep saying. Where's the evidence? Put up or shut up.


Ok let's go. How about the famous shinner accused of fiddling here in Derry. Paid off the young lads families and still runs at least 3 businesses which are only fronts for SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 08:46:15 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 08:30:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 30, 2020, 05:42:25 PM
When someone like Suzanne Breen is praising you then you have to acknowledge that SF leadership have acted swiftly to rectify the problem and I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. I'd imagine they'll face further questions but you can't really ask anything else of them so far.

I honestly think this was a bit of opportunism on the behalf of the three individuals caught out. I know shinner-bashing is a fond pastime of many on here but a bit of realism wouldn't go a miss.
For a start - SF are rich and 30k isn't really a whole lot. Don't see why they as a party would risk so much for £30k and think they'd get away with it. Now to a chancer like McCallion her idiocy probably took over and she somehow thought she'd be fine. (Probably something she was used to). The others probably thought along the same lines but haven't heard the details there just yet.

This is only tip of iceberg.

So you keep saying. Where's the evidence? Put up or shut up.

Or how seemingly low paid MLA s here in city live in council housing association properties but at sane time have massive houses in neighbouring Donegal
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 10:17:37 PM
Sorry, I possibly should have been clearer. When I said "evidence", I actually meant evidence, as opposed to vague accusations with no evidence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 10:17:37 PM
Sorry, I possibly should have been clearer. When I said "evidence", I actually meant evidence, as opposed to vague accusations with no evidence.

PM and I'll give you more
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armamike on October 30, 2020, 10:40:03 PM
Are SF MPs, MLAs and senators not taking an industrial wage these days?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 10:48:40 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 30, 2020, 10:31:59 PM
Shanty men fighting behind closed doors now. The world is on its ear.

Lol. Naw it's not fair on families. Especially first case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 10:55:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 10:17:37 PM
Sorry, I possibly should have been clearer. When I said "evidence", I actually meant evidence, as opposed to vague accusations with no evidence.

PM and I'll give you more

Nah thanks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 10:55:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 30, 2020, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 30, 2020, 10:17:37 PM
Sorry, I possibly should have been clearer. When I said "evidence", I actually meant evidence, as opposed to vague accusations with no evidence.

PM and I'll give you more

Nah thanks.

Ah well. Have a wee jook through companies House sometime , very interesting
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 31, 2020, 06:06:39 AM
Quote from: Armamike on October 30, 2020, 10:40:03 PM
Are SF MPs, MLAs and senators not taking an industrial wage these days?

If I remember correctly that policy was scrapped.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on October 31, 2020, 04:44:08 PM
West Tyrone MLA Catherine Kelly has now gone!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 31, 2020, 05:20:34 PM
Shambolic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on October 31, 2020, 05:29:55 PM
Dropping like flies Nolan be smiling now.Could be more to come,big change from years ago,when it would have been an honour to have frauded the establisment.ML is certainly stamping her authority the families involved would be like the Royal Family within SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Silver hill on October 31, 2020, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: skeog on October 31, 2020, 05:29:55 PM
Dropping like flies Nolan be smiling now.Could be more to come,big change from years ago,when it would have been an honour to have frauded the establisment.ML is certainly stamping her authority the families involved would be like the Royal Family within SF.

Mccallion/Anderson....Royal family....more like Jim Royle!
Zero class, sf will be delighted to see the back of mccallion, if only Martina would somehow go in the same vein, that would be a result.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: currychip on October 31, 2020, 09:03:19 PM
What's MaolIosa McHugh got on SF?  How did they manage to get an unknown to take one for the team and leave MaolIosa in place?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2020, 09:06:37 PM
Normally you'd use the euphemism "he knows where the bodies are buried" but.... 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on November 01, 2020, 10:10:34 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 30, 2020, 10:31:59 PM
Shanty men fighting behind closed doors now. The world is on its ear.

Up the Shanty men!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: theticklemister on November 01, 2020, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: skeog on October 31, 2020, 05:29:55 PM
Dropping like flies Nolan be smiling now.Could be more to come,big change from years ago,when it would have been an honour to have frauded the establisment.ML is certainly stamping her authority the families involved would be like the Royal Family within SF.

A very apt comparison between the royal family and Sinn Fein you made there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.

A party who spends nearly €2m a year on a spin department for its leader decrying the proceeds of a dead man's legal will is as risible as it gets.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.

A party who spends nearly €2m a year on a spin department for its leader decrying the proceeds of a dead man's legal will is as risible as it gets.

doesnt affect me, i live the north where we only know of dup and sf corruption and their undoubted lack of ability to rule
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 11, 2020, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.

Why?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on November 11, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.

A party who spends nearly €2m a year on a spin department for its leader decrying the proceeds of a dead man's legal will is as risible as it gets.

doesnt affect me, i live the north where we only know of dup and sf corruption and their undoubted lack of ability to rule
Hold on minute Fear. Leaving all that aside, why does the donation stink and why should it be returned? If I wanted to leave everything I have to a cats home or the raving monster looney party (left that open for a wee joke by you :)) then that should be accepted. His family can contest it, but other than immediate family, it would be extremely difficult.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2020, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 11, 2020, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.

Why?

It stinks cos SF voted to loosen abortion rules. You can apply that sane answer to any comments this fool makes about SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:13:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 11, 2020, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 11, 2020, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.

Why?

It stinks cos SF voted to loosen abortion rules. You can apply that sane answer to any comments this fool makes about SF

Because the man who donated it had serious mental illness. Once chopped his manhood off. Should have been donated to mental health charity at very least by SF. but Mary poo said no way when asked. It's you that's the amadán. In fact your a leath amadán
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.

A party who spends nearly €2m a year on a spin department for its leader decrying the proceeds of a dead man's legal will is as risible as it gets.

doesnt affect me, i live the north where we only know of dup and sf corruption and their undoubted lack of ability to rule
Hold on minute Fear. Leaving all that aside, why does the donation stink and why should it be returned? If I wanted to leave everything I have to a cats home or the raving monster looney party (left that open for a wee joke by you :)) then that should be accepted. His family can contest it, but other than immediate family, it would be extremely difficult.

Answer above a chara. As a fellow city man you will know we have some of the highest suicide rates in Europe.. another 3 young men last night, i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Top tip:
Before spouting your bitterness, a 2 second google would have been worth your while

(http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Mayor-2.jpg)

Now for your "Oh but....but..that doesn't count because....because eh..."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2020, 08:37:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.

A party who spends nearly €2m a year on a spin department for its leader decrying the proceeds of a dead man's legal will is as risible as it gets.

doesnt affect me, i live the north where we only know of dup and sf corruption and their undoubted lack of ability to rule
Hold on minute Fear. Leaving all that aside, why does the donation stink and why should it be returned? If I wanted to leave everything I have to a cats home or the raving monster looney party (left that open for a wee joke by you :)) then that should be accepted. His family can contest it, but other than immediate family, it would be extremely difficult.

Answer above a chara. As a fellow city man you will know we have some of the highest suicide rates in Europe.. another 3 young men last night, i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Classy stuff. Who cares most about suicide says the man who wants no abortion and changed his political allegiance as a result. How many young women committed suicide as a result of dinosaurs like you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Top tip:
Before spouting your bitterness, a 2 second google would have been worth your while

(http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Mayor-2.jpg)

Now for your "Oh but....but..that doesn't count because....because eh..."

Hopefully they put good bit of their money in the box. I've had misfortune of walking the bank's twice and they were not to be seen. Oh wonder why. No cameras.

You very carefully failed to address rest of my post
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:59:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 11, 2020, 08:37:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
Blueshirts putting the boot in
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-will-be-asked-to-return-4m-donation-from-reclusive-millionaire-39734427.html

That donation stinks in many ways.

A party who spends nearly €2m a year on a spin department for its leader decrying the proceeds of a dead man's legal will is as risible as it gets.

doesnt affect me, i live the north where we only know of dup and sf corruption and their undoubted lack of ability to rule
Hold on minute Fear. Leaving all that aside, why does the donation stink and why should it be returned? If I wanted to leave everything I have to a cats home or the raving monster looney party (left that open for a wee joke by you :)) then that should be accepted. His family can contest it, but other than immediate family, it would be extremely difficult.

Answer above a chara. As a fellow city man you will know we have some of the highest suicide rates in Europe.. another 3 young men last night, i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Classy stuff. Who cares most about suicide says the man who wants no abortion and changed his political allegiance as a result. How many young women committed suicide as a result of dinosaurs like you.

Can you show me where I ever said that about abortion. Btw how many women have done that. Show me the stats. I can tell you a lot about suicide unfortunately.

Now back to the original point, why wasn't the money of a mentally ill man not put to better use
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on November 11, 2020, 09:36:06 PM
Fear does it keep you awake at night knowing all the votes you have gave Sinn Féin in the past has helped bring them to the place they are today?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 10:31:13 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on November 11, 2020, 09:36:06 PM
Fear does it keep you awake at night knowing all the votes you have gave Sinn Féin in the past has helped bring them to the place they are today?

Gives me frequent indigestion
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on November 11, 2020, 10:40:10 PM
Chris Hazzard criticising Arlene on Twitter for her saying the EU shouldn't disrupt food supplies to NI, and Michelle had jointly signed the letter the day before.  Another dose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Top tip:
Before spouting your bitterness, a 2 second google would have been worth your while

(http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Mayor-2.jpg)

Now for your "Oh but....but..that doesn't count because....because eh..."

Hopefully they put good bit of their money in the box. I've had misfortune of walking the bank's twice and they were not to be seen. Oh wonder why. No cameras.

You very carefully failed to address rest of my post

Just as predicted, you're bang in schedule to make excuses for being proven wrong. "Oh but its just for the cameras", "oh but he probably didn't donate". Would you ever go get that enormous chip on your shoulder seen to?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 11:47:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Top tip:
Before spouting your bitterness, a 2 second google would have been worth your while

(http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Mayor-2.jpg)

Now for your "Oh but....but..that doesn't count because....because eh..."

Hopefully they put good bit of their money in the box. I've had misfortune of walking the bank's twice and they were not to be seen. Oh wonder why. No cameras.

You very carefully failed to address rest of my post

Just as predicted, you're bang in schedule to make excuses for being proven wrong. "Oh but its just for the cameras", "oh but he probably didn't donate". Would you ever go get that enormous chip on your shoulder seen to?

Ffs the photo must be 15 years old. You do realise that Kevin and wee Eric lost their seats for both being useless since then.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 11:57:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 11:47:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Top tip:
Before spouting your bitterness, a 2 second google would have been worth your while

(http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Mayor-2.jpg)

Now for your "Oh but....but..that doesn't count because....because eh..."

Hopefully they put good bit of their money in the box. I've had misfortune of walking the bank's twice and they were not to be seen. Oh wonder why. No cameras.

You very carefully failed to address rest of my post

Just as predicted, you're bang in schedule to make excuses for being proven wrong. "Oh but its just for the cameras", "oh but he probably didn't donate". Would you ever go get that enormous chip on your shoulder seen to?

Ffs the photo must be 15 years old. You do realise that Kevin and wee Eric lost their seats for both being useless since then.  ;D

So now its the age of the photo?lol Set the shovel down before you prove me right with a third post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:59:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 11:57:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 11:47:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Top tip:
Before spouting your bitterness, a 2 second google would have been worth your while

(http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Mayor-2.jpg)

Now for your "Oh but....but..that doesn't count because....because eh..."

Hopefully they put good bit of their money in the box. I've had misfortune of walking the bank's twice and they were not to be seen. Oh wonder why. No cameras.

You very carefully failed to address rest of my post

Just as predicted, you're bang in schedule to make excuses for being proven wrong. "Oh but its just for the cameras", "oh but he probably didn't donate". Would you ever go get that enormous chip on your shoulder seen to?

Ffs the photo must be 15 years old. You do realise that Kevin and wee Eric lost their seats for both being useless since then.  ;D

So now its the age of the photo?lol Set the shovel down before you prove me right with a third post.
Of course the age is important. 15 years ago SF were still telling us to vote against Europe and that they were pro life amongst a long long list of many other things.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:41:51 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:59:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 11:57:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 11:47:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Top tip:
Before spouting your bitterness, a 2 second google would have been worth your while

(http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Mayor-2.jpg)

Now for your "Oh but....but..that doesn't count because....because eh..."

Hopefully they put good bit of their money in the box. I've had misfortune of walking the bank's twice and they were not to be seen. Oh wonder why. No cameras.

You very carefully failed to address rest of my post

Just as predicted, you're bang in schedule to make excuses for being proven wrong. "Oh but its just for the cameras", "oh but he probably didn't donate". Would you ever go get that enormous chip on your shoulder seen to?

Ffs the photo must be 15 years old. You do realise that Kevin and wee Eric lost their seats for both being useless since then.  ;D

So now its the age of the photo?lol Set the shovel down before you prove me right with a third post.
Of course the age is important. 15 years ago SF were still telling us to vote against Europe and that they were pro life amongst a long long list of many other things.

See the photo is 8 years old not 15. You see when you said:

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:59:14 AM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

You didnt make it clear that you are only 7 years old. Would explain a lot though.

Did I not tell you to set the shovel down?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:14:46 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:41:51 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:59:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 11:57:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 11:47:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Top tip:
Before spouting your bitterness, a 2 second google would have been worth your while

(http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Mayor-2.jpg)

Now for your "Oh but....but..that doesn't count because....because eh..."

Hopefully they put good bit of their money in the box. I've had misfortune of walking the bank's twice and they were not to be seen. Oh wonder why. No cameras.

You very carefully failed to address rest of my post

Just as predicted, you're bang in schedule to make excuses for being proven wrong. "Oh but its just for the cameras", "oh but he probably didn't donate". Would you ever go get that enormous chip on your shoulder seen to?

Ffs the photo must be 15 years old. You do realise that Kevin and wee Eric lost their seats for both being useless since then.  ;D

So now its the age of the photo?lol Set the shovel down before you prove me right with a third post.
Of course the age is important. 15 years ago SF were still telling us to vote against Europe and that they were pro life amongst a long long list of many other things.

See the photo is 8 years old not 15. You see when you said:

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:59:14 AM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

You didnt make it clear that you are only 7 years old. Would explain a lot though.

Did I not tell you to set the shovel down?

It's ok they were still ok against all those things 8 years ago too lol. Kevin and  Eric still dumped out of their seats for bring useless, and SF still should have donated their donation to charity. They have spent 1000s on pictures of Karen Mullan and mad Martina around Derry this week telling us to sneeze into our elbows. Ffs vanity project.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:14:46 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:41:51 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:59:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 11:57:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 11:47:06 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

Top tip:
Before spouting your bitterness, a 2 second google would have been worth your while

(http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Mayor-2.jpg)

Now for your "Oh but....but..that doesn't count because....because eh..."

Hopefully they put good bit of their money in the box. I've had misfortune of walking the bank's twice and they were not to be seen. Oh wonder why. No cameras.

You very carefully failed to address rest of my post

Just as predicted, you're bang in schedule to make excuses for being proven wrong. "Oh but its just for the cameras", "oh but he probably didn't donate". Would you ever go get that enormous chip on your shoulder seen to?

Ffs the photo must be 15 years old. You do realise that Kevin and wee Eric lost their seats for both being useless since then.  ;D

So now its the age of the photo?lol Set the shovel down before you prove me right with a third post.
Of course the age is important. 15 years ago SF were still telling us to vote against Europe and that they were pro life amongst a long long list of many other things.

See the photo is 8 years old not 15. You see when you said:

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:59:14 AM
i never see SF anywhere near Foyle search and rescue fundraisers

You didnt make it clear that you are only 7 years old. Would explain a lot though.

Did I not tell you to set the shovel down?

It's ok they were still ok against all those things 8 years ago too lol. Kevin and  Eric still dumped out of their seats for bring useless, and SF still should have donated their donation to charity. They have spent 1000s on pictures of Karen Mullan and mad Martina around Derry this week telling us to sneeze into our elbows. Ffs vanity project.
What odds what their policies were 8 years ago. You simply accused them of "never" showing up at Foyle Search & Rescue fundraisers. That has been proven to be just more of your shite talk.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 04, 2020, 04:34:11 PM
Poor oul Stanley being thrown under the Maryloo bus?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1204/1182305-brian-stanley-tweet/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2020, 08:08:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2020, 04:34:11 PM
Poor oul Stanley being thrown under the Maryloo bus?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1204/1182305-brian-stanley-tweet/

Warning signs were there few years back with his homophobic tweet about Varadkar. Another loose cannon
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 05, 2020, 12:50:26 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2020, 08:08:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2020, 04:34:11 PM
Poor oul Stanley being thrown under the Maryloo bus?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1204/1182305-brian-stanley-tweet/

Warning signs were there few years back with his homophobic tweet about Varadkar. Another loose cannon

Varadkar tweet was outta order, even though it related to a Blue Shirt w**ker. But nothing whatsoever wrong with tweet about Kilmichael and Warrenpoint. Irony is, if SAS 'hero' Blair Mayne (a  bone fide war criminal) had carried out those magnificent ambushes, we'd never hear the end of them from unionists.f**k em.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2020, 11:34:51 AM
I know it's the "Irish" Independent but .....
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sf-members-quit-amid-allegations-of-homophobic-and-racist-slurs-39827803.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 05, 2020, 11:49:00 AM
Stanley seems to be a bit of an eejit

But that's not a disqualifying offence, as the history of politics in Ireland proves beyond any doubt

His tweet about Kilmichael and Warrenpoint was pure eejitry, like, why on earth would you tweet that, pure rabble rousing

But that tweet which referenced Varadkar was not homophobic and what he said in that radio interview was not racist - well, I didn't see it anyway - that's a stitch up

At the same time Stanley was an eejit to write the tweet in a way which left him open to bad faith accusations of homophobia

Sinn Féin have sort of made a rod for their own back with their social media strategy

It involves internet pile ons and it involves a deliberate destruction of context

Now Fine Gael are throwing these internet pile ons and deliberate destruction of context back at them in spades

Fine Gael are only too happy to use the Tory media strategy

It's really depressing to see the this Trumpification of Irish politics

Micheal Martin does it too, he ludicrously called Alan Kelly "the far left"

Facepalm stuff

And now a former editor of the Irish Sun has been appointed Government Press Secretary

There's only more mudslinging and imported US and British tactics ahead



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 05, 2020, 12:30:26 PM
Homophobic attacks of Varadkar by Shinners on Twitter are rife. Ireland is still a place with plenty of homophobes. Sad really , growing up as a young gay man or woman must be still a challenge
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 05, 2020, 01:22:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 05, 2020, 12:30:26 PM
Homophobic attacks of Varadkar by Shinners on Twitter are rife. Ireland is still a place with plenty of homophobes. Sad really , growing up as a young gay man or woman must be still a challenge
It would appear to me that this is true - but that it is mainly coming from a particular strain of the party's support, a sort of a ultra-social conservative, ultra-nationalist wing that in other countries would be more likely to be part of a hard right party

This wing support Sinn Fein because of nationalism, and I mean nationalism in the toxic, Trump, Le Pen, Brexit, Salvini sense

I don't really think Stanley's tweet falls into this category

There is also a young urban progressive wing of Sinn Fein's support

In the media before the last election it was epitomised by people like Una Mullally, rugby commentator Ryle Nugent even appeared to be a Sinn Fein supporter, it's certainly epitomised by a lot of young party members in colleges and such

This wing could just as easily be in Labour or the Greens or the Social Democrats or even the People Before Profit Alphabet Alliance, indeed it would seem to me that all these parties would be much more natural fits because their primary goal is social justice - wealth redistribution, workers' rights, social housing and the like, and they are very liberal in terms of social issues

This wing has no essential loyalty to Sinn Fein at all and hitched their wagon to them because they saw them as the best hope for some sort of left alternative

There is another wing, a sort of nihilistic anti-establishmentism, an anger wing, a very low information wing, a Dunning Kruger wing - the sort that claims to hate everything about capitalism and hate authoritarianism yet has a big sneaking regard for Putin and wants to smash RTE, thus ushering in an era of ultra-capitalist media - the thicko wing

This wing loves slogans and its politics are filtered almost entirely through such

This wing also flirts with homophobic tweets, because the people who make it up are thick

Stanley seems to flirt with this wing

But, at the same time, I don't think his tweet was homophobic







Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2020, 02:22:41 PM
Some posters very conspicuous by their absence  ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 05, 2020, 02:42:14 PM
Hallmarks between Stanley and Corbyn here.

The right wing parties and media combine to slander from as far as politics go a very decent and honourable man.

A few weeks after we get to see how FG work come out in the open RTE and the mainstream media after weeks of neglecting their duties come to life to gaslight Stanley.

FG have so much in common with the DUP, so much toxicity between them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 05, 2020, 07:58:13 PM
Don't know how you can say his tweet wasn't homophobic. He clearly made an allusion to Varadkers sexuality by mentioning his bedroom antics.

To say now he was advocating gay rights in that tweet is a blatant lie. Right up there with Barry Mc Elduff telling he does all his shopping by balancing it on his head. ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 05, 2020, 08:07:57 PM
The type that are in Fine Gael today would have been the most vocal critics of republican actions in the War Of Independence  such as the Kilmichael ambush and blame the IRA for the provocation which led to the burning of Cork,  one of many retaliations after Kilmichael.

The Warrenpoint ambush was a well planned military operation which just happened to come off and became one of the classic successsful republican ambushes of all time.  Who assumes to write the one and only definitive  history of modern ireland?

An aside,  is there any explanation for how it comes to pass that Fine Gael and Varadkar  have a loving and supportive bedfellow connection with the ultra right wing political parties of Hungary and Poland in the european parliament, both racist, rabid homophobic/anti LGBT parties?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2020, 08:53:36 PM
What do Shinners think of Marylou clamping down on Stanley?
Waiting for instructions or shocked that SF seem to be turning into "West Brit Free Stater Quislings"??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on December 05, 2020, 09:02:31 PM
Shinner Bots on twitter are embarrassing. They have more people/presence on social media than any other political party.

Unfortunately that means when any of the government TDs screws up they are slaughtered by SF people on twitter and if any SF TD is called out for idiotic comments like Brian Shanley by someone then he/she is accused of bullying/racism or any other idiotic excuse by the Shinnerbots
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 05, 2020, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 05, 2020, 09:02:31 PM
Shinner Bots on twitter are embarrassing. They have more people/presence on social media than any other political party.

Unfortunately that means when any of the government TDs screws up they are slaughtered by SF people on twitter and if any SF TD is called out for idiotic comments like Brian Shanley by someone then he/she is accused of bullying/racism or any other idiotic excuse by the Shinnerbots

Shinnerbots? What's it like living up Ruth Dudley Edwards', Eoghan Harris' and Eilis O Hanlon's hole?  Must be dark, depressing place. Have you ever read Sindo and Indo you clown?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on December 05, 2020, 11:20:04 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 05, 2020, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 05, 2020, 09:02:31 PM
Shinner Bots on twitter are embarrassing. They have more people/presence on social media than any other political party.

Unfortunately that means when any of the government TDs screws up they are slaughtered by SF people on twitter and if any SF TD is called out for idiotic comments like Brian Shanley by someone then he/she is accused of bullying/racism or any other idiotic excuse by the Shinnerbots

Shinnerbots? What's it like living up Ruth Dudley Edwards', Eoghan Harris' and Eilis O Hanlon's hole?  Must be dark, depressing place. Have you ever read Sindo and Indo you clown?

What has my post got anything to do with the idiots you quoted? You are the perfect example of the SF clowns abusing people on Twitter. Attack, attack attack and actual facts or the truth is irrelevant. I see Brian Shanley's wife is now tweeting on behalf of her husband. Just embarrassing to think a bigoted individual like Brian Shanley is an elected TD in this country.

Also before you call me some FF/FG drone their TDs and members have issues as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 05, 2020, 11:27:58 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 05, 2020, 07:58:13 PM
Don't know how you can say his tweet wasn't homophobic. He clearly made an allusion to Varadkers sexuality by mentioning his bedroom antics.

To say now he was advocating gay rights in that tweet is a blatant lie. Right up there with Barry Mc Elduff telling he does all his shopping by balancing it on his head. ::)
Did he? I don't think so

What it looked like to me was that he was referencing Fine Gael adopting a liberal social agenda to mask what Stanley perceives as a poor record on workers' rights, workers' pay etc.

Being in favour of same sex marriage, repealing the 8th Amendment, gender recognition etc., while being good things in and of themselves, and which they do deserve an amount of credit for (though the people who deserve by far the most credit are the tireless grass roots campaigners who pushed these issues relentlessly) do not airbrush Fine Gael's record on bread and butter issues

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 06, 2020, 01:52:09 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 05, 2020, 11:20:04 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 05, 2020, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 05, 2020, 09:02:31 PM
Shinner Bots on twitter are embarrassing. They have more people/presence on social media than any other political party.

Unfortunately that means when any of the government TDs screws up they are slaughtered by SF people on twitter and if any SF TD is called out for idiotic comments like Brian Shanley by someone then he/she is accused of bullying/racism or any other idiotic excuse by the Shinnerbots




Shinnerbots? What's it like living up Ruth Dudley Edwards', Eoghan Harris' and Eilis O Hanlon's hole?  Must be dark, depressing place. Have you ever read Sindo and Indo you clown?

What has my post got anything to do with the idiots you quoted? You are the perfect example of the SF clowns abusing people on Twitter. Attack, attack attack and actual facts or the truth is irrelevant. I see Brian Shanley's wife is now tweeting on behalf of her husband. Just embarrassing to think a bigoted individual like Brian Shanley is an elected TD in this country.

Also before you call me some FF/FG drone their TDs and members have issues as well.

I haven't voted Sinn Fein in 20  years. I'm abusing you as a republican. You fall for shit from pathetic Irish press. Anyone criticises West Brit traitor sc**bag columnist detritus employed by same press automatically labelled Shinnerbot to close down criticism. You can just see Establishment in South absolutely shitting themselves over rise of Shinners, they will do anything to stop them, mainly criticising operations of IRA in North, despite fact Free State and now Republic you live in was won using exact same tactics. Hypocrites all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 06, 2020, 01:56:10 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 05, 2020, 09:02:31 PM
Shinner Bots on twitter are embarrassing. They have more people/presence on social media than any other political party.

Unfortunately that means when any of the government TDs screws up they are slaughtered by SF people on twitter and if any SF TD is called out for idiotic comments like Brian Shanley by someone then he/she is accused of bullying/racism or any other idiotic excuse by the Shinnerbots

They also garner more votes than any other party in Ireland, you ever think that might be the reason???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on December 06, 2020, 08:25:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 05, 2020, 11:27:58 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 05, 2020, 07:58:13 PM
Don't know how you can say his tweet wasn't homophobic. He clearly made an allusion to Varadkers sexuality by mentioning his bedroom antics.

To say now he was advocating gay rights in that tweet is a blatant lie. Right up there with Barry Mc Elduff telling he does all his shopping by balancing it on his head. ::)
Did he? I don't think so

What it looked like to me was that he was referencing Fine Gael adopting a liberal social agenda to mask what Stanley perceives as a poor record on workers' rights, workers' pay etc.

Being in favour of same sex marriage, repealing the 8th Amendment, gender recognition etc., while being good things in and of themselves, and which they do deserve an amount of credit for (though the people who deserve by far the most credit are the tireless grass roots campaigners who pushed these issues relentlessly) do not airbrush Fine Gael's record on bread and butter issues

Absolutely. We should all stand resolutely against any attempt to airbrush the past of any party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LCohen on December 06, 2020, 08:35:08 AM
Quote from: red hander on December 05, 2020, 12:50:26 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2020, 08:08:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2020, 04:34:11 PM
Poor oul Stanley being thrown under the Maryloo bus?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1204/1182305-brian-stanley-tweet/

Warning signs were there few years back with his homophobic tweet about Varadkar. Another loose cannon

Varadkar tweet was outta order, even though it related to a Blue Shirt w**ker. But nothing whatsoever wrong with tweet about Kilmichael and Warrenpoint. Irony is, if SAS 'hero' Blair Mayne (a  bone fide war criminal) had carried out those magnificent ambushes, we'd never hear the end of them from unionists.f**k em.

Incredible stuff there

You don't think the Narrow Water tweet might have been a shade insensitive?

You describe Narrow Water as "magnificent". Put some flesh on the bones there.

I know something of Paddy Mayne but not enough to say he was or was not a war criminal. Would be genuinely interested in any link

Can I just confirm that the freedom to venerate other incidents from the troubles is something you extend to everyone? It's not a freedom I will be taking up personally but others might
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on December 06, 2020, 01:00:50 PM
Quote from: LCohen on December 06, 2020, 08:35:08 AM
Quote from: red hander on December 05, 2020, 12:50:26 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2020, 08:08:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2020, 04:34:11 PM
Poor oul Stanley being thrown under the Maryloo bus?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1204/1182305-brian-stanley-tweet/

Warning signs were there few years back with his homophobic tweet about Varadkar. Another loose cannon

Varadkar tweet was outta order, even though it related to a Blue Shirt w**ker. But nothing whatsoever wrong with tweet about Kilmichael and Warrenpoint. Irony is, if SAS 'hero' Blair Mayne (a  bone fide war criminal) had carried out those magnificent ambushes, we'd never hear the end of them from unionists.f**k em.

Incredible stuff there

You don't think the Narrow Water tweet might have been a shade insensitive?

You describe Narrow Water as "magnificent". Put some flesh on the bones there.

I know something of Paddy Mayne but not enough to say he was or was not a war criminal. Would be genuinely interested in any link

Can I just confirm that the freedom to venerate other incidents from the troubles is something you extend to everyone? It's not a freedom I will be taking up personally but others might

"Magnificent" - wow. Are you 16 and don't understand the horror that it was.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
The driver of one of the army lorries was a 19 year old kid. The only thing left of him after the first bomb was his pelvis welded to the seat by heat of the bomb. The 2nd bomb killed a British colonel. No body parts of his could be identified, the only markers that he was dead where the bits of his colonels uniform found in the debris.

Nothing about narrow water was magnificent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 06, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
The driver of one of the army lorries was a 19 year old kid. The only thing left of him after the first bomb was his pelvis welded to the seat by heat of the bomb. The 2nd bomb killed a British colonel. No body parts of his could be identified, the only markers that he was dead where the bits of his colonels uniform found in the debris.

Nothing about narrow water was magnificent.

Unless you are an internet tough guy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on December 06, 2020, 03:06:03 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 06, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
The driver of one of the army lorries was a 19 year old kid. The only thing left of him after the first bomb was his pelvis welded to the seat by heat of the bomb. The 2nd bomb killed a British colonel. No body parts of his could be identified, the only markers that he was dead where the bits of his colonels uniform found in the debris.

Nothing about narrow water was magnificent.

Unless you are an internet tough guy

Shame on the rest of us for not being proud nationalists and acknowledging the "magnificent" events
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 03:06:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on December 06, 2020, 08:25:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 05, 2020, 11:27:58 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 05, 2020, 07:58:13 PM
Don't know how you can say his tweet wasn't homophobic. He clearly made an allusion to Varadkers sexuality by mentioning his bedroom antics.

To say now he was advocating gay rights in that tweet is a blatant lie. Right up there with Barry Mc Elduff telling he does all his shopping by balancing it on his head. ::)
Did he? I don't think so

What it looked like to me was that he was referencing Fine Gael adopting a liberal social agenda to mask what Stanley perceives as a poor record on workers' rights, workers' pay etc.

Being in favour of same sex marriage, repealing the 8th Amendment, gender recognition etc., while being good things in and of themselves, and which they do deserve an amount of credit for (though the people who deserve by far the most credit are the tireless grass roots campaigners who pushed these issues relentlessly) do not airbrush Fine Gael's record on bread and butter issues

Absolutely. We should all stand resolutely against any attempt to airbrush the past of any party
Well Sinn Fein have existential questions they need to answer

Is it an overarching requirement (if not in written rule, then in clear unspoken terms) of Sinn Fein members to believe that the Provisional IRA campaign of 1969-1997 was, on the whole, at least broadly justified?

Where, for Sinn Fein as a party, do the lines get drawn between Provisional IRA actions between 1969 and 1997 that should be justified, could be justified, cannot be justified - and ones that should be outright condemned? Where do the lines get drawn on post July 19th, 1997 actions, or at least post April 10th, 1998 actions?

If it's not a requirement of Sinn Fein membership to believe that the IRA campaign of 1969 to 1997 was at least broadly justified, was it ever a requirement? And if it was ever a requirement, when did it stop being a requirement to believe such?

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein now and believe that the Provisional IRA campaign of 1969-1997 was not at all justified?

Can you believe that, say, the SDLP's approach in the years 1969-1997 was the correct one - not the IRA's - and be a member of Sinn Fein now?

If so, how long exactly has that been the case? Was it always the case? Or is it, still, in 2020, a disbarring belief?

If, say, you held similar views on violence in the North since 1969 to those of Neale Richmond or John Bruton but on all other issues had politics more similar to that of Ruth Coppinger or Richard Boyd Barrett, could you be a member of Sinn Fein?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 06, 2020, 05:28:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
The driver of one of the army lorries was a 19 year old kid. The only thing left of him after the first bomb was his pelvis welded to the seat by heat of the bomb. The 2nd bomb killed a British colonel. No body parts of his could be identified, the only markers that he was dead where the bits of his colonels uniform found in the debris.

Nothing about narrow water was magnificent.

It was war though.

Nationalists in the O6 didn't just wake up and decide to start blowing Brits up one morning. There were many reasons behind that. The Free State establishment who engage in the most vitriolic anti-nationalist propaganda seem to have amnesia about the legacy of the history they celebrate, the revered men they regard as statesmen and the acts they committed.

Kilmichael and Warrenpoint were eerily similar. Both mass atrocities committed against British military due to the foreign occupation and societal oppression that nationalists found themselves living in.

But the FS establishment continue to try and airbrush Irish history. Murder pre 1923 - good, murder post 1923 - very bad.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 06:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 06, 2020, 05:28:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
The driver of one of the army lorries was a 19 year old kid. The only thing left of him after the first bomb was his pelvis welded to the seat by heat of the bomb. The 2nd bomb killed a British colonel. No body parts of his could be identified, the only markers that he was dead where the bits of his colonels uniform found in the debris.

Nothing about narrow water was magnificent.

It was war though.

Nationalists in the O6 didn't just wake up and decide to start blowing Brits up one morning. There were many reasons behind that. The Free State establishment who engage in the most vitriolic anti-nationalist propaganda seem to have amnesia about the legacy of the history they celebrate, the revered men they regard as statesmen and the acts they committed.

Kilmichael and Warrenpoint were eerily similar. Both mass atrocities committed against British military due to the foreign occupation and societal oppression that nationalists found themselves living in.

But the FS establishment continue to try and airbrush Irish history. Murder pre 1923 - good, murder post 1923 - very bad.

We're not arguing about whether it was a war or not. We're arguing about whether the narrow water bombing was magnificent as Stanley seems to think.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 06, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 06:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 06, 2020, 05:28:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
The driver of one of the army lorries was a 19 year old kid. The only thing left of him after the first bomb was his pelvis welded to the seat by heat of the bomb. The 2nd bomb killed a British colonel. No body parts of his could be identified, the only markers that he was dead where the bits of his colonels uniform found in the debris.

Nothing about narrow water was magnificent.

It was war though.

Nationalists in the O6 didn't just wake up and decide to start blowing Brits up one morning. There were many reasons behind that. The Free State establishment who engage in the most vitriolic anti-nationalist propaganda seem to have amnesia about the legacy of the history they celebrate, the revered men they regard as statesmen and the acts they committed.

Kilmichael and Warrenpoint were eerily similar. Both mass atrocities committed against British military due to the foreign occupation and societal oppression that nationalists found themselves living in.

But the FS establishment continue to try and airbrush Irish history. Murder pre 1923 - good, murder post 1923 - very bad.

We're not arguing about whether it was a war or not. We're arguing about whether the narrow water bombing was magnificent as Stanley seems to think.

Whether it was magnificent or not isn't really the point. The same people who are outraged by it have no problems commemorating and celebrating violent republican ambushes that led to the creation of the free state. So either violence is right or wrong. The Free State establishment want to tell northern nationalists they are animals for defending themselves against a violent pogrom on one hand while euologising gunmen and killers for liberating them on the other.

The GAA celebrates killers. There are clubs all around the island named after gunmen so where do we draw the line?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 06, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 06:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 06, 2020, 05:28:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
The driver of one of the army lorries was a 19 year old kid. The only thing left of him after the first bomb was his pelvis welded to the seat by heat of the bomb. The 2nd bomb killed a British colonel. No body parts of his could be identified, the only markers that he was dead where the bits of his colonels uniform found in the debris.

Nothing about narrow water was magnificent.

It was war though.

Nationalists in the O6 didn't just wake up and decide to start blowing Brits up one morning. There were many reasons behind that. The Free State establishment who engage in the most vitriolic anti-nationalist propaganda seem to have amnesia about the legacy of the history they celebrate, the revered men they regard as statesmen and the acts they committed.

Kilmichael and Warrenpoint were eerily similar. Both mass atrocities committed against British military due to the foreign occupation and societal oppression that nationalists found themselves living in.

But the FS establishment continue to try and airbrush Irish history. Murder pre 1923 - good, murder post 1923 - very bad.

We're not arguing about whether it was a war or not. We're arguing about whether the narrow water bombing was magnificent as Stanley seems to think.

Whether it was magnificent or not isn't really the point. The same people who are outraged by it have no problems commemorating and celebrating violent republican ambushes that led to the creation of the free state. So either violence is right or wrong. The Free State establishment want to tell northern nationalists they are animals for defending themselves against a violent pogrom on one hand while euologising gunmen and killers for liberating them on the other.

The GAA celebrates killers. There are clubs all around the island named after gunmen so where do we draw the line?

We draw the line at wanton violence. If you can find excuses for IRA atrocities why can't you do the same for British Army atrocities or UDA atrocities? Where's the difference? Plenty of British and unionist civilians died during the troubles. Sure can't they simply argue their paramilitaries were defending themselves against Republican aggression?

You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

The truth is that your entire viewpoint on the troubles has been formed by the simple accident of birth.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 07, 2020, 12:46:03 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

This is the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 07, 2020, 10:07:47 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

The truth is that your entire viewpoint on the troubles has been formed by the simple accident of birth.
Can't speak for the other poster but I'm not, nor ever have been, a SF member (or any other political party). Haven't been indoctrinated either. Virtually non-political immediate-family background - soft nationalist/SDLP voting parents. I'm ardent Republican in my outlook. Not a pacifist. I've formed my views around first hand experience, reading, research etc.

Militarily, Narrow Water was a resounding success. "Magnificent" may not be the term I would use but it was an excellent operation by the PIRA fighting a guerrilla campaign against the British. I find it almost hilarious that establishment parties celebrate the likes of Kilmichael which was every bit as ruthless, had the exact same aims against the exact same enemy, carried out by men who would likewise execute in cold blood people suspected of informing, RIC members etc but when it's done in the north 60 years later it's "wanton" violence.

On the flip side of things I am more than willing to acknowledge the war crimes carried out under the banner of Republicanism. There may still be men alive that should be rotting inside a jail cell for actions carried under the guise of the IRA but Narrow Water isn't one of them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Chief on December 07, 2020, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 07, 2020, 10:07:47 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

The truth is that your entire viewpoint on the troubles has been formed by the simple accident of birth.
Can't speak for the other poster but I'm not, nor ever have been, a SF member (or any other political party). Haven't been indoctrinated either. Virtually non-political immediate-family background - soft nationalist/SDLP voting parents. I'm ardent Republican in my outlook. Not a pacifist. I've formed my views around first hand experience, reading, research etc.

Militarily, Narrow Water was a resounding success. "Magnificent" may not be the term I would use but it was an excellent operation by the PIRA fighting a guerrilla campaign against the British. I find it almost hilarious that establishment parties celebrate the likes of Kilmichael which was every bit as ruthless, had the exact same aims against the exact same enemy, carried out by men who would likewise execute in cold blood people suspected of informing, RIC members etc but when it's done in the north 60 years later it's "wanton" violence.

On the flip side of things I am more than willing to acknowledge the war crimes carried out under the banner of Republicanism. There may still be men alive that should be rotting inside a jail cell for actions carried under the guise of the IRA but Narrow Water isn't one of them

This is the issue when political legitimacy is drawn from political violence. The justification for violence perpetuates itself because the perpetrators of the previous violence must show a degree of hypocrisy in condemning any current incarnation.

This is the same reason why SF haven't a moral leg to stand on when criticising dissident violence.

It's also why posters on here from the 26 counties struggle, in operational terms, to meaningfully distinguish Kilmichael from Narrow Water.

This is why the new approach to Irish Unity must be one which is peaceful and claims victory and legitimacy from the ballot box - otherwise British/Loyalist separatist violence will be hard to morally distinguish from previous Irish/Republican efforts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 12:24:35 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 06, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 06:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 06, 2020, 05:28:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
The driver of one of the army lorries was a 19 year old kid. The only thing left of him after the first bomb was his pelvis welded to the seat by heat of the bomb. The 2nd bomb killed a British colonel. No body parts of his could be identified, the only markers that he was dead where the bits of his colonels uniform found in the debris.

Nothing about narrow water was magnificent.

It was war though.

Nationalists in the O6 didn't just wake up and decide to start blowing Brits up one morning. There were many reasons behind that. The Free State establishment who engage in the most vitriolic anti-nationalist propaganda seem to have amnesia about the legacy of the history they celebrate, the revered men they regard as statesmen and the acts they committed.



Kilmichael and Warrenpoint were eerily similar. Both mass atrocities committed against British military due to the foreign occupation and societal oppression that nationalists found themselves living in.

But the FS establishment continue to try and airbrush Irish history. Murder pre 1923 - good, murder post 1923 - very bad.

We're not arguing about whether it was a war or not. We're arguing about whether the narrow water bombing was magnificent as Stanley seems to think.

Whether it was magnificent or not isn't really the point. The same people who are outraged by it have no problems commemorating and celebrating violent republican ambushes that led to the creation of the free state. So either violence is right or wrong. The Free State establishment want to tell northern nationalists they are animals for defending themselves against a violent pogrom on one hand while euologising gunmen and killers for liberating them on the other.

The GAA celebrates killers. There are clubs all around the island named after gunmen so where do we draw the line?

We draw the line at wanton violence. If you can find excuses for IRA atrocities why can't you do the same for British Army atrocities or UDA atrocities? Where's the difference? Plenty of British and unionist civilians died during the troubles. Sure can't they simply argue their paramilitaries were defending themselves against Republican aggression?

You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

The truth is that your entire viewpoint on the troubles has been formed by the simple accident of birth.

If you're consistent then you're consistent.

But violent atrocities were committed by the old IRA and republicans, by Free Staters and anti-treaty forces. The history of this island is riddled with murder and innocent people have lost their lives through. You can criticise the Provos but if you criticise then while defending the actions of Republicans in the War of Independence then you're a hypocrite. It really is that black and white.

Either killings of civilians is wrong or its not, you cannot pick and choose.
Killings of occupying British forces is either wrong or its not, you cannot pick and choose.

If you have such revulsion at the Provos then what do you think of Lemass, Collins etc? Gunmen, killers.

Here's an article for you.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/old-ira-disappearances-off-the-scale-compared-with-pira-1.3602395
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 07, 2020, 10:07:47 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

The truth is that your entire viewpoint on the troubles has been formed by the simple accident of birth.
Can't speak for the other poster but I'm not, nor ever have been, a SF member (or any other political party). Haven't been indoctrinated either. Virtually non-political immediate-family background - soft nationalist/SDLP voting parents. I'm ardent Republican in my outlook. Not a pacifist. I've formed my views around first hand experience, reading, research etc.

Militarily, Narrow Water was a resounding success. "Magnificent" may not be the term I would use but it was an excellent operation by the PIRA fighting a guerrilla campaign against the British. I find it almost hilarious that establishment parties celebrate the likes of Kilmichael which was every bit as ruthless, had the exact same aims against the exact same enemy, carried out by men who would likewise execute in cold blood people suspected of informing, RIC members etc but when it's done in the north 60 years later it's "wanton" violence.

On the flip side of things I am more than willing to acknowledge the war crimes carried out under the banner of Republicanism. There may still be men alive that should be rotting inside a jail cell for actions carried under the guise of the IRA but Narrow Water isn't one of them

A very good post which I wholeheartedly agree with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 12:29:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2020, 12:46:03 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

This is the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.

In terms of the troubles.

29% of the PIRA victims were civilians
51% of British Army victims were civilians
80+% of Loyalist paramilitary victimes were civilians (mainy aided and abetted by security forces)

It's never been a case of one side as bad as the other and anyone who tries to pedal that agenda has a clear agenda at play. One side was fighting for liberation of its people, the other was fighting for a protestant ascendancy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 12:29:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2020, 12:46:03 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

This is the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.

In terms of the troubles.

29% of the PIRA victims were civilians
51% of British Army victims were civilians
80+% of Loyalist paramilitary victimes were civilians (mainy aided and abetted by security forces)

It's never been a case of one side as bad as the other and anyone who tries to pedal that agenda has a clear agenda at play. One side was fighting for liberation of its people, the other was fighting for a protestant ascendancy.

35% of IRA victims were civilians.
Almost the same amount in numbers as loyalists and far in excess of the security forces. Forget about your percentages
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 12:29:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2020, 12:46:03 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

This is the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.

In terms of the troubles.

29% of the PIRA victims were civilians
51% of British Army victims were civilians
80+% of Loyalist paramilitary victimes were civilians (mainy aided and abetted by security forces)

It's never been a case of one side as bad as the other and anyone who tries to pedal that agenda has a clear agenda at play. One side was fighting for liberation of its people, the other was fighting for a protestant ascendancy.

35% of IRA victims were civilians.
Almost the same amount in numbers as loyalists and far in excess of the security forces. Forget about your percentages

Forget about percentages?

29% of PIRA killings were civilians
51% of British army killings were civilians
Over 80% of Loyalist paramilataries killings were civilians

Consversely, 59% of PIRA killings were state security forces.

I know why you want to forget about percentages because they don't suit your narrative. 161 innocent victims riddled with bullets by the British soldiers, how many convictions?

8,000 republican arrests during the troubles, how many soliders convicted of murder? How many times did the British Army open fire on loyalist communities?

It's odd how you have more focus on those killed by republicans than innocent nationalist civilians murdered by state security forces or in collusion with state security forces and military intelligence.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 12:29:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2020, 12:46:03 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

This is the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.

In terms of the troubles.

29% of the PIRA victims were civilians
51% of British Army victims were civilians
80+% of Loyalist paramilitary victimes were civilians (mainy aided and abetted by security forces)

It's never been a case of one side as bad as the other and anyone who tries to pedal that agenda has a clear agenda at play. One side was fighting for liberation of its people, the other was fighting for a protestant ascendancy.

35% of IRA victims were civilians.
Almost the same amount in numbers as loyalists and far in excess of the security forces. Forget about your percentages

Forget about percentages?

29% of PIRA killings were civilians
51% of British army killings were civilians
Over 80% of Loyalist paramilataries killings were civilians

Consversely, 59% of PIRA killings were state security forces.

I know why you want to forget about percentages because they don't suit your narrative. 161 innocent victims riddled with bullets by the British soldiers, how many convictions?

8,000 republican arrests during the troubles, how many soliders convicted of murder? How many times did the British Army open fire on loyalist communities?

It's odd how you have more focus on those killed by republicans than innocent nationalist civilians murdered by state security forces or in collusion with state security forces and military intelligence.

You have lost all credibility with that post, your figures are wrong. You cant peddle shite
I don't have a narrative, I am totally anti British Army, I have had family members killed or injured with British forces both in the recent conflict and 1921. The BA stats are not disputed by me. The IRA killed 1800 approx(650 civilians). , 35% of their victims.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 07, 2020, 02:39:07 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 07, 2020, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 07, 2020, 10:07:47 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

The truth is that your entire viewpoint on the troubles has been formed by the simple accident of birth.
Can't speak for the other poster but I'm not, nor ever have been, a SF member (or any other political party). Haven't been indoctrinated either. Virtually non-political immediate-family background - soft nationalist/SDLP voting parents. I'm ardent Republican in my outlook. Not a pacifist. I've formed my views around first hand experience, reading, research etc.

Militarily, Narrow Water was a resounding success. "Magnificent" may not be the term I would use but it was an excellent operation by the PIRA fighting a guerrilla campaign against the British. I find it almost hilarious that establishment parties celebrate the likes of Kilmichael which was every bit as ruthless, had the exact same aims against the exact same enemy, carried out by men who would likewise execute in cold blood people suspected of informing, RIC members etc but when it's done in the north 60 years later it's "wanton" violence.

On the flip side of things I am more than willing to acknowledge the war crimes carried out under the banner of Republicanism. There may still be men alive that should be rotting inside a jail cell for actions carried under the guise of the IRA but Narrow Water isn't one of them

This is the issue when political legitimacy is drawn from political violence. The justification for violence perpetuates itself because the perpetrators of the previous violence must show a degree of hypocrisy in condemning any current incarnation.

This is the same reason why SF haven't a moral leg to stand on when criticising dissident violence.

It's also why posters on here from the 26 counties struggle, in operational terms, to meaningfully distinguish Kilmichael from Narrow Water.

This is why the new approach to Irish Unity must be one which is peaceful and claims victory and legitimacy from the ballot box - otherwise British/Loyalist separatist violence will be hard to morally distinguish from previous Irish/Republican efforts.
It could be claimed that the 1919-1921 War of Independence had democratic legitimacy given the 1918 election results

But that's debatable

1916 certainly had no democratic legitimacy

Yet in the popular imagination it is seen as "heroic"

Neither did the IRA/PIRA's war from 1969 to 1997 have democratic legitimacy, well, no real democratic legitimacy

In operational terms there was certainly no difference between Kilmichael and Warrenpoint - Irish nationalists went out to kill Crown forces, and they killed them

Perhaps the most pertinent point is that at the time of Kilmichael, war had a realistic chance of victory

By the time of Warrenpoint, did the PIRA's war have a realistic chance of victory? You'd have to say no

Did it ever a realistic chance of victory? Probably not, almost certainly not

Yet it continued until 1997

But was the PIRA's war an inevitable reaction to oppression? Nothing is inevitable, but it was as close to inevitable as is possible

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 03:06:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 12:29:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2020, 12:46:03 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

This is the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.

In terms of the troubles.

29% of the PIRA victims were civilians
51% of British Army victims were civilians
80+% of Loyalist paramilitary victimes were civilians (mainy aided and abetted by security forces)

It's never been a case of one side as bad as the other and anyone who tries to pedal that agenda has a clear agenda at play. One side was fighting for liberation of its people, the other was fighting for a protestant ascendancy.

35% of IRA victims were civilians.
Almost the same amount in numbers as loyalists and far in excess of the security forces. Forget about your percentages

Forget about percentages?

29% of PIRA killings were civilians
51% of British army killings were civilians
Over 80% of Loyalist paramilataries killings were civilians

Consversely, 59% of PIRA killings were state security forces.

I know why you want to forget about percentages because they don't suit your narrative. 161 innocent victims riddled with bullets by the British soldiers, how many convictions?

8,000 republican arrests during the troubles, how many soliders convicted of murder? How many times did the British Army open fire on loyalist communities?

It's odd how you have more focus on those killed by republicans than innocent nationalist civilians murdered by state security forces or in collusion with state security forces and military intelligence.

You have lost all credibility with that post, your figures are wrong. You cant peddle shite
I don't have a narrative, I am totally anti British Army, I have had family members killed or injured with British forces both in the recent conflict and 1921. The BA stats are not disputed by me. The IRA killed 1800 approx(650 civilians). , 35% of their victims.

29%.

And percentages do matter.

There was a war, bad things happen in war.

But why was there a war? People from nationalist enclaves didn't just wake up one morning and decide to start planting bombs.

So let's put the double standards to one side.

And why did these murders not bother you when you were voting SF back in the day?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 07, 2020, 03:39:12 PM
Looks like McDonald and Ó Broin are trying to veer SF away from 1971-98 and all that as they chase votes in the 26.
They believe/know that the Angelos of the World will still vote for them anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 03:40:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 03:06:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 12:29:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2020, 12:46:03 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

This is the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.

In terms of the troubles.

29% of the PIRA victims were civilians
51% of British Army victims were civilians
80+% of Loyalist paramilitary victimes were civilians (mainy aided and abetted by security forces)

It's never been a case of one side as bad as the other and anyone who tries to pedal that agenda has a clear agenda at play. One side was fighting for liberation of its people, the other was fighting for a protestant ascendancy.

35% of IRA victims were civilians.
Almost the same amount in numbers as loyalists and far in excess of the security forces. Forget about your percentages

Forget about percentages?

29% of PIRA killings were civilians
51% of British army killings were civilians
Over 80% of Loyalist paramilataries killings were civilians

Consversely, 59% of PIRA killings were state security forces.

I know why you want to forget about percentages because they don't suit your narrative. 161 innocent victims riddled with bullets by the British soldiers, how many convictions?

8,000 republican arrests during the troubles, how many soliders convicted of murder? How many times did the British Army open fire on loyalist communities?

It's odd how you have more focus on those killed by republicans than innocent nationalist civilians murdered by state security forces or in collusion with state security forces and military intelligence.

You have lost all credibility with that post, your figures are wrong. You cant peddle shite
I don't have a narrative, I am totally anti British Army, I have had family members killed or injured with British forces both in the recent conflict and 1921. The BA stats are not disputed by me. The IRA killed 1800 approx(650 civilians). , 35% of their victims.

29%.

And percentages do matter.

There was a war, bad things happen in war.

But why was there a war? People from nationalist enclaves didn't just wake up one morning and decide to start planting bombs.

So let's put the double standards to one side.

And why did these murders not bother you when you were voting SF back in the day?

They did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on December 07, 2020, 03:48:49 PM
ML didnt come over very well today in radio interview.Giving BS the week off due to his fragile state some joke imo.Not many people heading to a building site often in a fragile state be given week off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on December 07, 2020, 03:53:15 PM
The SF spokesman on sport, ladies and gentlemen. A true statesman

https://twitter.com/chrisandrews64/status/1335638130481901568 (https://twitter.com/chrisandrews64/status/1335638130481901568)

Quote
Chris Andrews TD
@chrisandrews64
Hard luck to Tipp. Would have been great to see them in the Final V Dublin for many reasons.
Hopefully Mayo bottle it in another Final on the 19th
#mayovtipp
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 07, 2020, 04:03:25 PM
Might depend on where the meeting was held.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 06:33:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 03:40:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 03:06:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 07, 2020, 12:29:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2020, 12:46:03 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 06, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

This is the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.

In terms of the troubles.

29% of the PIRA victims were civilians
51% of British Army victims were civilians
80+% of Loyalist paramilitary victimes were civilians (mainy aided and abetted by security forces)

It's never been a case of one side as bad as the other and anyone who tries to pedal that agenda has a clear agenda at play. One side was fighting for liberation of its people, the other was fighting for a protestant ascendancy.

35% of IRA victims were civilians.
Almost the same amount in numbers as loyalists and far in excess of the security forces. Forget about your percentages

Forget about percentages?

29% of PIRA killings were civilians
51% of British army killings were civilians
Over 80% of Loyalist paramilataries killings were civilians

Consversely, 59% of PIRA killings were state security forces.

I know why you want to forget about percentages because they don't suit your narrative. 161 innocent victims riddled with bullets by the British soldiers, how many convictions?

8,000 republican arrests during the troubles, how many soliders convicted of murder? How many times did the British Army open fire on loyalist communities?

It's odd how you have more focus on those killed by republicans than innocent nationalist civilians murdered by state security forces or in collusion with state security forces and military intelligence.

You have lost all credibility with that post, your figures are wrong. You cant peddle shite
I don't have a narrative, I am totally anti British Army, I have had family members killed or injured with British forces both in the recent conflict and 1921. The BA stats are not disputed by me. The IRA killed 1800 approx(650 civilians). , 35% of their victims.

29%.

And percentages do matter.

There was a war, bad things happen in war.

But why was there a war? People from nationalist enclaves didn't just wake up one morning and decide to start planting bombs.

So let's put the double standards to one side.

And why did these murders not bother you when you were voting SF back in the day?

They did.

Yet you still voted for them do why is it an issue now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 07, 2020, 09:15:04 PM
Saw a good tweet comparing the "old" IRA with the Provos
https://twitter.com/tristin_1916/status/1335995212804579330?s=21
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2020, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 07, 2020, 09:15:04 PM
Saw a good tweet comparing the "old" IRA with the Provos
https://twitter.com/tristin_1916/status/1335995212804579330?s=21

Thanks for confirming to Angelo it was 35 percent. The man not good with the numbers thing, canny understand that 50 Percent of 10 is a lot less than 50 Percent of 100 either by the looks of it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 08, 2020, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 07, 2020, 04:03:25 PM
Might depend on where the meeting was held.....
I would genuinely like to get an answer to the question from a Sinn Fein supporter

It's sort of important and it seems an obvious question - especially given that Sinn Fein have designs on leading a government

Yet I've never heard it answered
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 08, 2020, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?

I'm not a SF member.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong. The political establishments in Britain, in the north or Ireland and in the south of Ireland let a violent sectarian oppression of the nationalist community evolve and fester and the Provos were born and everything escalated after that.

Regrettable things happened as they do in any conflict, lots of people laud Mandela as one of the greatest men that ever lived and rightly so but he was terrorist. His organisation killed many people, many innocent people, they used bombs to do so.

The orange ruling class in the O6, the FFG elite ruling class down south and the British establishment are the people responsible for that 30 years of murder and mayhem.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 08, 2020, 05:04:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 08, 2020, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?

I'm not a SF member.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong. The political establishments in Britain, in the north or Ireland and in the south of Ireland let a violent sectarian oppression of the nationalist community evolve and fester and the Provos were born and everything escalated after that.

Regrettable things happened as they do in any conflict, lots of people laud Mandela as one of the greatest men that ever lived and rightly so but he was terrorist. His organisation killed many people, many innocent people, they used bombs to do so.

The orange ruling class in the O6, the FFG elite ruling class down south and the British establishment are the people responsible for that 30 years of murder and mayhem.
That's not an answer to the question though

Is it a prerequisite, if not in rule but in reality, that every Sinn Fein candidate must agree that the broad thrust of the Provisional IRA's campaign 1969-97 was justified, correct and righteous?

Can one believe that taken as a whole, that PIRA campaign was morally wrong - that the peaceful approach of John Hume and the SDP was the correct one - and be a Sinn Fein candidate, or indeed a party member?

Because it still seems to me that that is the central defining character of today's Sinn Fein and its membership - that what the PIRA did between 1969 and 1997 was correct and righteous

I don't think you can believe the PIRA campaign 1969-1997 was broadly wrong, and be a Sinn Fein member

And that's a problem for Sinn Fein, I think, especially if they want to be a sort of social democratic party of middle Ireland

There's a lack of honesty from Sinn Fein people and supporters surrounding this question
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 08, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 08, 2020, 05:04:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 08, 2020, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?

I'm not a SF member.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong. The political establishments in Britain, in the north or Ireland and in the south of Ireland let a violent sectarian oppression of the nationalist community evolve and fester and the Provos were born and everything escalated after that.

Regrettable things happened as they do in any conflict, lots of people laud Mandela as one of the greatest men that ever lived and rightly so but he was terrorist. His organisation killed many people, many innocent people, they used bombs to do so.

The orange ruling class in the O6, the FFG elite ruling class down south and the British establishment are the people responsible for that 30 years of murder and mayhem.
That's not an answer to the question though

Is it a prerequisite, if not in rule but in reality, that every Sinn Fein candidate must agree that the broad thrust of the Provisional IRA's campaign 1969-97 was justified, correct and righteous?

Can one believe that taken as a whole, that PIRA campaign was morally wrong - that the peaceful approach of John Hume and the SDP was the correct one - and be a Sinn Fein candidate, or indeed a party member?

Because it still seems to me that that is the central defining character of today's Sinn Fein and its membership - that what the PIRA did between 1969 and 1997 was correct and righteous

I don't think you can believe the PIRA campaign 1969-1997 was broadly wrong, and be a Sinn Fein member

And that's a problem for Sinn Fein, I think, especially if they want to be a sort of social democratic party of middle Ireland

There's a lack of honesty from Sinn Fein people and supporters surrounding this question

I answered your question clearly and comprehensively.

I'll put in bold for you below. Word for word what I said in the last post.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong.

The rest of the post was my reasoning. So you question was answered clearly and comprehensively. Why you feel the need to be deliberate and disingenuous with the truth is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 08, 2020, 09:24:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 08, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 08, 2020, 05:04:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 08, 2020, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?

I'm not a SF member.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong. The political establishments in Britain, in the north or Ireland and in the south of Ireland let a violent sectarian oppression of the nationalist community evolve and fester and the Provos were born and everything escalated after that.

Regrettable things happened as they do in any conflict, lots of people laud Mandela as one of the greatest men that ever lived and rightly so but he was terrorist. His organisation killed many people, many innocent people, they used bombs to do so.

The orange ruling class in the O6, the FFG elite ruling class down south and the British establishment are the people responsible for that 30 years of murder and mayhem.
That's not an answer to the question though

Is it a prerequisite, if not in rule but in reality, that every Sinn Fein candidate must agree that the broad thrust of the Provisional IRA's campaign 1969-97 was justified, correct and righteous?

Can one believe that taken as a whole, that PIRA campaign was morally wrong - that the peaceful approach of John Hume and the SDP was the correct one - and be a Sinn Fein candidate, or indeed a party member?

Because it still seems to me that that is the central defining character of today's Sinn Fein and its membership - that what the PIRA did between 1969 and 1997 was correct and righteous

I don't think you can believe the PIRA campaign 1969-1997 was broadly wrong, and be a Sinn Fein member

And that's a problem for Sinn Fein, I think, especially if they want to be a sort of social democratic party of middle Ireland

There's a lack of honesty from Sinn Fein people and supporters surrounding this question

I answered your question clearly and comprehensively.

I'll put in bold for you below. Word for word what I said in the last post.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong.

The rest of the post was my reasoning. So you question was answered clearly and comprehensively. Why you feel the need to be deliberate and disingenuous with the truth is anyone's guess.
You didn't answer the question

You answered a question I didn't ask

I didn't ask whether you supported the PIRA campaign, I don't care whether you did or not

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2020, 06:59:44 PM
SF seem have put forward another character, who is now busy deleting his old tweets alleging that 911 was a conspiracy and the like.
They are definitely slipping, the obvious thing to do was to delete the dodgy tweets before naming the candidate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 10, 2020, 07:49:21 PM
Looks like FG/FF  have put both feet in it again by making the Dail committee meeting about their toothpaste version of history.
The Tipp SF td wiped the floor with their petty politiking.

"I said it is not about apologising or justifying - it was about moving beyond apologies to reconciliation".
"I called for the establishment of a truth and reconciliation process so that everyone can get around the table and discuss what happened and the way forward, because the reality is that every time the past is discussed there will be different views.
"It is our job to build a better future and that is what I intend to be part of."

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1210/1183652-politics-public-petitions-committee/


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on December 10, 2020, 08:40:25 PM
What a legend MB doesnt believe 9/11 happened,Assad never gassed his own people,likes calling around if he thinks you step out of line.Definetly cabinet material in four years time education would be a good post for him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 10, 2020, 08:41:46 PM
I predict SF to go up another point or two in next opinion poll. People see through this manufactured nonsense. Hopefully they'll stop buying the Times and Sindo too
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: skeog on December 10, 2020, 08:40:25 PM
What a legend MB doesnt believe 9/11 happened,Assad never gassed his own people,likes calling around if he thinks you step out of line.Definetly cabinet material in four years time education would be a good post for him.

Wow.

FFG members blindly believe Leo Varadkar leaked cabinet documents to his friend as a duty to bettering the state.

Some interesting stories of the party politics in FG.

A FG Meath councillor resigned after he was assaulted and had his car fire bombed by elements of FG elements and the party took no action on it
Regina Doherty sending Gardai to arrest a blogger at the airport after the blogger reported on her company burning debtors a few 000k
Another FG TD stating that his party sat on bullying claims and did nothing about them
Another FG senator accused of bullying government staff

But of course the subservient Free State media would never be interested in covering these stories. There's a really toxic culture in FG being exposed in the past few months.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on December 10, 2020, 09:09:34 PM
Angelo Denis Desmond is FG,s biggest donor time for a boycott of Celtic what you think.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 10, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem
Your knickers are in a hysterical FG/FF twist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 10:33:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem

Yet FG and FF have no problem celebrating killers so your outrage is utterly, utterly hysterical.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 10, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 10:33:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem

Yet FG and FF have no problem celebrating killers so your outrage is utterly, utterly hysterical.

Do you not know that history in Ireland only started in 1969?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 10, 2020, 11:32:16 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 10, 2020, 08:41:46 PM
I predict SF to go up another point or two in next opinion poll. People see through this manufactured nonsense. Hopefully they'll stop buying the Times and Sindo too

hopefully, let them in to we see them shit the nest when they havent got the british bumper lanes in
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:45:23 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem
Your knickers are in a hysterical FG/FF twist.
Answer the question

Would you have a problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or the murder of Pat Finucane?

Never voted FG or FF in me life and have no intention of ever doing so, but sure if you want to invent straw men in a paranoid fashion because you can't comprehend how anybody would think Stanley's tweet about Warrenpoint was stupid, fire away
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 11, 2020, 06:23:28 AM
I take it all the wee West Brits condemning the tweet don't commemorate 1916 either? It's the same fight, just because most of ye give up and abandoned the North. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 10:44:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:45:23 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem
Your knickers are in a hysterical FG/FF twist.
Answer the question

Would you have a problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or the murder of Pat Finucane?

Never voted FG or FF in me life and have no intention of ever doing so, but sure if you want to invent straw men in a paranoid fashion because you can't comprehend how anybody would think Stanley's tweet about Warrenpoint was stupid, fire away

What an utterly ridiculous comparison. There are issues with acts of war, the British state had means of capture, judicial systems and other avenues to fight the IRA. The nationalist community had paramilitary forces. The British did not have to kill at Loughgall or Gilbraltar but did. Either way I think most republicans will acknowledge the cowardice of the British but recognise that it was a casualty of war.

Including Pat Finucane in there is absolutely disgusting, he was a civilian marked for death by the British establishment because he was a thorn in their side.

Warrenpoint was a military action against occupying forces of an oppressive regime. I saw nothing wrong with Stanley's tweet, particularly when there was a bombastic state celebration on violent uprising 4 years ago with tanks on the streets and army officers marching down Dublin streets.

You free staters live in an alternative universe.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 10:54:56 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 10:44:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:45:23 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem
Your knickers are in a hysterical FG/FF twist.
Answer the question

Would you have a problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or the murder of Pat Finucane?

Never voted FG or FF in me life and have no intention of ever doing so, but sure if you want to invent straw men in a paranoid fashion because you can't comprehend how anybody would think Stanley's tweet about Warrenpoint was stupid, fire away

What an utterly ridiculous comparison. There are issues with acts of war, the British state had means of capture, judicial systems and other avenues to fight the IRA. The nationalist community had paramilitary forces. The British did not have to kill at Loughgall or Gilbraltar but did. Either way I think most republicans will acknowledge the cowardice of the British but recognise that it was a casualty of war.

Including Pat Finucane in there is absolutely disgusting, he was a civilian marked for death by the British establishment because he was a thorn in their side.

Warrenpoint was a military action against occupying forces of an oppressive regime. I saw nothing wrong with Stanley's tweet, particularly when there was a bombastic state celebration on violent uprising 4 years ago with tanks on the streets and army officers marching down Dublin streets.

You free staters live in an alternative universe.
Brian Stanley is aspiring to become a government minister

Yet he's sending out tweets glorifying bombs

You call it a war - which implies that in your view Shoot To Kill was fair game

But of course you would have a problem if a British Government minister was sending out tweets glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar or the murder of Pat Finucane - as would I

Yet you approve of Stanley glorifying killing

To call that a double standard is an understatement

Pat Finucane was indeed a civilian was murdered by the British state and it was an outrage - but the IRA had no compunction about killing civilians

Neither you nor anybody else answered my previous question about Sinn Fein

And the very fact of this lack of answer shows that Sinn Fein has an existential problem as to what they are

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 10:58:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 10:54:56 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 10:44:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:45:23 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem
Your knickers are in a hysterical FG/FF twist.
Answer the question

Would you have a problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or the murder of Pat Finucane?

Never voted FG or FF in me life and have no intention of ever doing so, but sure if you want to invent straw men in a paranoid fashion because you can't comprehend how anybody would think Stanley's tweet about Warrenpoint was stupid, fire away

What an utterly ridiculous comparison. There are issues with acts of war, the British state had means of capture, judicial systems and other avenues to fight the IRA. The nationalist community had paramilitary forces. The British did not have to kill at Loughgall or Gilbraltar but did. Either way I think most republicans will acknowledge the cowardice of the British but recognise that it was a casualty of war.

Including Pat Finucane in there is absolutely disgusting, he was a civilian marked for death by the British establishment because he was a thorn in their side.

Warrenpoint was a military action against occupying forces of an oppressive regime. I saw nothing wrong with Stanley's tweet, particularly when there was a bombastic state celebration on violent uprising 4 years ago with tanks on the streets and army officers marching down Dublin streets.

You free staters live in an alternative universe.
Brian Stanley is aspiring to become a government minister

Yet he's sending out tweets glorifying bombs

You call it a war - which implies that in your view Shoot To Kill was fair game

But of course you would have a problem if a British Government minister was sending out tweets glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar or the murder of Pat Finucane - as would I

Yet you approve of Stanley glorifying killing

To call that a double standard is an understatement

Pat Finucane was indeed a civilian was murdered by the British state and it was an outrage - but the IRA had no compunction about killing civilians

Neither you nor anybody else answered my previous question about Sinn Fein

And the very fact of this lack of answer shows that Sinn Fein has an existential problem as to what they are

In a state where there was a bombastic state celebration of a violent uprising with military artillery being paraded down Dublin streets just 4 years ago. So please tell me how this is newsworty?

The IRA that the state celebrate, the gunmen FFG hang potraits of in their government offices had little compunction about killing civilians. You're in a knot of contradictions here.

You're also attempting to muddy the waters by celebrating the murder of a civilian. Can you back that equivalence up?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 11:07:53 AM
Woah - when you're backed into a corner - you claim that I'm "celebrating the murder of a civilian"!

Like, what the absolute fook?!

Shinnerbots continually make bigger and bigger fools of themselves because they can't defend the indefensible

It becomes ever clearer by the day that it's a cult


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seaney on December 11, 2020, 11:14:11 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 11:07:53 AM
Woah - when you're backed into a corner - you claim that I'm "celebrating the murder of a civilian"!

Like, what the absolute fook?!

Shinnerbots continually make bigger and bigger fools of themselves because they can't defend the indefensible

It becomes ever clearer by the day that it's  you're a cult

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 11:07:53 AM
Woah - when you're backed into a corner - you claim that I'm "celebrating the murder of a civilian"!

Like, what the absolute fook?!

Shinnerbots continually make bigger and bigger fools of themselves because they can't defend the indefensible

It becomes ever clearer by the day that it's a cult

You have tried to equate the murder of IRA members by the British state to the murder of a civilian by the British state. Your logic and equivocating is utterly bizarre and irrational. You see no problem with a bombastic state celebration full to the brim with military jingoism for a violent uprising where hundreds of civilians lost their lives but you're outraged by a SF TD celebrating Warrenpoint and Kilmichael.

You are a walking, talking contradiction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 11, 2020, 11:50:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 11:07:53 AM
Woah - when you're backed into a corner - you claim that I'm "celebrating the murder of a civilian"!

Like, what the absolute fook?!

Shinnerbots continually make bigger and bigger fools of themselves because they can't defend the indefensible

It becomes ever clearer by the day that it's a cult

You have tried to equate the murder of IRA members by the British state to the murder of a civilian by the British state. Your logic and equivocating is utterly bizarre and irrational. You see no problem with a bombastic state celebration full to the brim with military jingoism for a violent uprising where hundreds of civilians lost their lives but you're outraged by a SF TD celebrating Warrenpoint and Kilmichael.

You are a walking, talking contradiction.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 11, 2020, 12:22:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:45:23 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem
Your knickers are in a hysterical FG/FF twist.
Answer the question

Would you have a problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or the murder of Pat Finucane?

Never voted FG or FF in me life and have no intention of ever doing so, but sure if you want to invent straw men in a paranoid fashion because you can't comprehend how anybody would think Stanley's tweet about Warrenpoint was stupid, fire away

I thought the tweet was very poorly expressed and stupid to put it out there.  Otherwise  what's the big surprise that republicans do compare both ambushes? they were both  planned and executed with spectacular impact, in spite of  the murder of the civilian by a soldier. Modern day republicans  have always claimed a direct link to the old IRA. And it's a point of gross hypocrisy when the conservative parties (FF FG Lab)  of  today put out their praise for early 20C republican actions.
And it is ironic that the establishment of today is fulsome in praise for (the cowardly slaughter at)  Kilmichael 100 years ago.

Loughgall, a state colluded murder of bar customers, why would a british minister own up to that? that would be quite stunning, same for Pat Finucane.
At the time the assassination of the Gibraltar 3 was celebrated and applauded by British politicians and media, it was and still is  accepted by the british state as a legitimate kill , but never did they recognise that those killed were soldiers of a kind.
Time to move on from the blame game,  claiming God's on my side and your side should wear the sackcloth and ashes.





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2020, 12:38:36 PM
Indeed.
All that happened happened.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:12:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 11:07:53 AM
Woah - when you're backed into a corner - you claim that I'm "celebrating the murder of a civilian"!

Like, what the absolute fook?!

Shinnerbots continually make bigger and bigger fools of themselves because they can't defend the indefensible

It becomes ever clearer by the day that it's a cult

You have tried to equate the murder of IRA members by the British state to the murder of a civilian by the British state. Your logic and equivocating is utterly bizarre and irrational. You see no problem with a bombastic state celebration full to the brim with military jingoism for a violent uprising where hundreds of civilians lost their lives but you're outraged by a SF TD celebrating Warrenpoint and Kilmichael.

You are a walking, talking contradiction.
By your terms they are exactly equal

You call it a war

It's either a war or isn't

The IRA killed copious amounts of civilians


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 01:23:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:12:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 11:07:53 AM
Woah - when you're backed into a corner - you claim that I'm "celebrating the murder of a civilian"!

Like, what the absolute fook?!

Shinnerbots continually make bigger and bigger fools of themselves because they can't defend the indefensible

It becomes ever clearer by the day that it's a cult

You have tried to equate the murder of IRA members by the British state to the murder of a civilian by the British state. Your logic and equivocating is utterly bizarre and irrational. You see no problem with a bombastic state celebration full to the brim with military jingoism for a violent uprising where hundreds of civilians lost their lives but you're outraged by a SF TD celebrating Warrenpoint and Kilmichael.

You are a walking, talking contradiction.
By your terms they are exactly equal

You call it a war

It's either a war or isn't

The IRA killed copious amounts of civilians

Civilians get killed in every war. Outlawed paramilitary groupings don't have judicial systems and prison camps to operate in. The British state did but instead decided to target civilians for cold blooded execution. The nationalists were the oppressed people who were routinely targeted for state executions on the grounds of their identity and persuasion.

That's a side argument to what you originally contended but as you were found out to be a complete and utter hypocrite on your free state celebrating the violent uprising in 1916 where hundreds of civilians lost their lives with a bombastic commemoration to it with full military jingoism, you have tried to muddy the water.

You need to be a man and address why you think its ok to celebrate murder on one hand and not on the other, rather than contradict yourself at every turn.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:23:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 11, 2020, 12:22:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:45:23 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 10, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 10, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
I presume then you'd have no problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or indeed the murder of Pat Finucane

Perhaps the same question should be asked of Mary Lou

I would have a problem with it by the way, a serious problem
Your knickers are in a hysterical FG/FF twist.
Answer the question

Would you have a problem if a British cabinet minister posted a tweet glorifying Loughgall or Gibraltar, or the murder of Pat Finucane?

Never voted FG or FF in me life and have no intention of ever doing so, but sure if you want to invent straw men in a paranoid fashion because you can't comprehend how anybody would think Stanley's tweet about Warrenpoint was stupid, fire away

I thought the tweet was very poorly expressed and stupid to put it out there.  Otherwise  what's the big surprise that republicans do compare both ambushes? they were both  planned and executed with spectacular impact, in spite of  the murder of the civilian by a soldier. Modern day republicans  have always claimed a direct link to the old IRA. And it's a point of gross hypocrisy when the conservative parties (FF FG Lab)  of  today put out their praise for early 20C republican actions.
And it is ironic that the establishment of today is fulsome in praise for (the cowardly slaughter at)  Kilmichael 100 years ago.

Loughgall, a state colluded murder of bar customers, why would a british minister own up to that? that would be quite stunning, same for Pat Finucane.
At the time the assassination of the Gibraltar 3 was celebrated and applauded by British politicians and media, it was and still is  accepted by the british state as a legitimate kill , but never did they recognise that those killed were soldiers of a kind.
Time to move on from the blame game,  claiming God's on my side and your side should wear the sackcloth and ashes.
But the tweet wasn't poorly expressed, it was Stanley's opinion

Now Sinn Fein are in sixes and sevens because they want to have these opinions but are not honest enough to defend them

There's an essential dishonesty at the heart of the party

They're happy to throw the "Blueshirts" tag at Fine Gael yet happy to celebrate a Nazi collaborator in Sean Russell

Any anybody who questions them is a "Blueshirt" - that's cult like behaviour

I've never voted FG or FF, I have actually voted Sinn Fein in the past but I won't be doing so again

I voted Green Party 1 Labour 2, People Before Profit 3 last February, for your information

Loughgall was not a murder of bar customers, it was an active service IRA unit which were killed

If it's "time to move on from the blame game", well, let Soldier F go, forget about ever getting the truth about the Pat Finucane murder - that's me saying that - it's you saying it

I suppose the essential difference between 1916 and then 1919-1921 was that those conflicts were short lived, they did not go on for 28 years

Those who made war in 1919 were not still bombing Manchester in 1946

The PIRA campaign descended into essentially nihilism



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 01:23:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:12:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 11:07:53 AM
Woah - when you're backed into a corner - you claim that I'm "celebrating the murder of a civilian"!

Like, what the absolute fook?!

Shinnerbots continually make bigger and bigger fools of themselves because they can't defend the indefensible

It becomes ever clearer by the day that it's a cult

You have tried to equate the murder of IRA members by the British state to the murder of a civilian by the British state. Your logic and equivocating is utterly bizarre and irrational. You see no problem with a bombastic state celebration full to the brim with military jingoism for a violent uprising where hundreds of civilians lost their lives but you're outraged by a SF TD celebrating Warrenpoint and Kilmichael.

You are a walking, talking contradiction.
By your terms they are exactly equal

You call it a war

It's either a war or isn't

The IRA killed copious amounts of civilians

Civilians get killed in every war. Outlawed paramilitary groupings don't have judicial systems and prison camps to operate in. The British state did but instead decided to target civilians for cold blooded execution. The nationalists were the oppressed people who were routinely targeted for state executions on the grounds of their identity and persuasion.

That's a side argument to what you originally contended but as you were found out to be a complete and utter hypocrite on your free state celebrating the violent uprising in 1916 where hundreds of civilians lost their lives with a bombastic commemoration to it with full military jingoism, you have tried to muddy the water.

You need to be a man and address why you think its ok to celebrate murder on one hand and not on the other, rather than contradict yourself at every turn.
The 1916 commemorations weren't a celebration of murder - they were nuanced

Sinn Fein still openly celebrates murder and murderers, the celebration of murder is the point

Catholics were an indeed an oppressed people in the six counties - but the PIRA was only too happy to become an oppressor

But perhaps you don't consider Enniskillen or Warrington or Kingsmills as oppression

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 01:36:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 01:23:48 PM


I suppose the essential difference between 1916 and then 1919-1921 was that those conflicts were short lived, they did not go on for 28 years

Those who made war in 1919 were not still bombing Manchester in 1946

The PIRA campaign descended into essentially nihilism

The difference between those wars were that:

a) the circumstances were different, nationalists were betrayed by the Irish free state. Sold out to sectarian state where they were second class citizens. The Irish free state has consistently left their northern brethern abandoned since the commencement of partition. So that is why the war continued, the PIRA did not continue the war, the British state and loyalism continued to use physical force to meet resistance to a two tier protestant ascendancy.

b) The WOI and Irish Civil War were much more callous and blood thirsty than the troubles. There is an airbrushing of Irish history that paints the Old IRA as righteous freedom fighters and the Provos as bloodthirsty pyschopaths. If anything the evidence points to the Old IRA having a much more apparent disregard for human life and civilians.

How dare northern nationalists stand up for themselves seems to be the commentary from the free state establishment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:01:21 PM
The circumstances in all wars are different

But nihilism is always the same

The PIRA campaign was nihilism

And they were bloodthirsty psychopaths

To continue a campaign for 28 years when it's clear within a very short time it has zero chance of success amounts to bloodthirsty psychopathy

Sinn Fein now condemn the murders of Lyra McKee and Ronan Kerr etc.

Yet they celebrate the campaign which murdered Joanne Mathers and Marie Wilson and Jonathan Ball

There is no difference between them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:01:21 PM
The circumstances in all wars are different

But nihilism is always the same

The PIRA campaign was nihilism

And they were bloodthirsty psychopaths

To continue a campaign for 28 years when it's clear within a very short time it has zero chance of success amounts to bloodthirsty psychopathy

Sinn Fein now condemn the murders of Lyra McKee and Ronan Kerr etc.

Yet they celebrate the campaign which murdered Joanne Mathers and Marie Wilson and Jonathan Ball

There is no difference between them

The PIRA campaign was anti-imperial one and an anti-oppression one.

FFG and the free state establishment celebrate the murders of children, Maura Lindsay and wiping out a Protestant population in Cork.

Yet get their knickers in a twist over the killings of a Parachute regiment that terrorised the nationalist community.

Maybe you should focus on the massive contractions of your state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:12:18 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fail do not celebrate such

What was anti-imperial about blowing the head off a three year old boy, blowing up a young nurse, or shooting dead a young woman conducting a census?

Nothing, that's what

Does Brian Stanley condemn the murder of Ronan Kerr?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:15:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:12:18 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fail do not celebrate such



Complete and utter bullshit.

They had a mass state celebration with the army and tanks going down the street four years ago.

They have portraits of gunmen and killers in their government officer.

You are being completely and utterly dishonest here, you cannot hide your agenda.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:16:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:15:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:12:18 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fail do not celebrate such



Complete and utter bullshit.

They had a mass state celebration with the army and tanks going down the street four years ago.

They have portraits of gunmen and killers in their government officer.

You are being completely and utterly dishonest here, you cannot hide your agenda.
You said they celebrate the murders of civilians in West Cork?

Where do they do that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:22:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:16:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:15:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:12:18 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fail do not celebrate such



Complete and utter bullshit.

They had a mass state celebration with the army and tanks going down the street four years ago.

They have portraits of gunmen and killers in their government officer.

You are being completely and utterly dishonest here, you cannot hide your agenda.
You said they celebrate the murders of civilians in West Cork?

Where do they do that?

The FFGLab establishment celebrated the murders of 260 civilians 4 years

Where did Brian Stanley celebrate the murder of Jonathan Ball?

You're all over the shop here, the fact that you outed yourself as a Labour and Greens voter says it all. Maybe address your own political contradictions before trying to look at others.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:22:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:16:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:15:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:12:18 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fail do not celebrate such



Complete and utter bullshit.

They had a mass state celebration with the army and tanks going down the street four years ago.

They have portraits of gunmen and killers in their government officer.

You are being completely and utterly dishonest here, you cannot hide your agenda.
You said they celebrate the murders of civilians in West Cork?

Where do they do that?

The FFGLab establishment celebrated the murders of 260 civilians 4 years

Where did Brian Stanley celebrate the murder of Jonathan Ball?

You're all over the shop here, the fact that you outed yourself as a Labour and Greens voter says it all. Maybe address your own political contradictions before trying to look at others.
I never said Brian Stanley celebrated the murder of Jonathan Ball

But Sinn Fein celebrate the campaign which involved the murder of Jonathan Ball, and Marie Wilson, and Joanne Mathers, and 14 year old Danielle Carter, and the workmen at Kingsmills, and Tim Parry, and all the other victims

Fine Gael and Fianna Fail certainly do not celebrate the murder of civilians

Does Brian Stanley condemn the murder of Ronan Kerr?

Does he or does he not?

If he does, and I'm sure if you asked him he would, as Gerry Adams did so at the time, isn't that the exact hypocrisy you complain about?

Because there's no difference whatsoever between the murder of Ronan Kerr and anything the PIRA did

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:32:56 PM
Also if any party has an unchallengeable establishment it's Sinn Fein

The party is run like a secretive cult

Little wonder it has a problem with people leaving due to bullying

The behaviour of its online supporters is a dead giveaway as to the culture in the party at large

Sinn Fein is all about establishment

In other parties you're actually allowed voice opinions, because whatever you think of other parties, they aren't cults
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:35:47 PM
Also, as Vincent Browne pointed out, Mary Lou McDonald actually threw Brian Stanley under the bus for voicing the central point of view that drives Sinn Fein as a party

She humiliated him

Sinn Fein supporters such as Angelo should be howling for McDonald's head over this

It just shows the essential existential dishonesty at the heart of Sinn Fein


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:32:56 PM
Also if any party has an unchallengeable establishment it's Sinn Fein

The party is run like a secretive cult

Little wonder it has a problem with people leaving due to bullying

The behaviour of its online supporters is a dead giveaway as to the culture in the party at large

Sinn Fein is all about establishment

In other parties you're actually allowed voice opinions, because whatever you think of other parties, they aren't cults

You're compromised now. Pretty much all major parties have bullying problems.

Have a read about the fringe party you vote for:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/labour-conference-hears-of-online-bullying-faced-by-candidates-1.4078176

https://www.thejournal.ie/james-heffernan-john-gilroy-labour-office-1903574-Jan2015/

As I said earlier, you can't compose a post without contradicting yourself. A walking, talking hypocrite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:35:47 PM
Also, as Vincent Browne pointed out, Mary Lou McDonald actually threw Brian Stanley under the bus for voicing the central point of view that drives Sinn Fein as a party

She humiliated him

Sinn Fein supporters such as Angelo should be howling for McDonald's head over this

Stanley had nothing to apologise for.

I'm not a fan of MLMD, she bows to much to the gutter right wing state media in the Free State.

It's mad how a dogmatic anti-Trump person like you uses so many of his tactics and aligns himself with the right wing parties in the free state.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:41:26 PM
Bullying goes on in all sections of society including political parties but Sinn Fein is the only party that has a systematic problem with it

It couldn't but have a systematic problem with it because of how it is run and the essential dishonesty and fraud in terms selling itself that drives it as a party

Sinn Fein is the only party that has a bullying problem that stems directly from its cult-like politics




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:35:47 PM
Also, as Vincent Browne pointed out, Mary Lou McDonald actually threw Brian Stanley under the bus for voicing the central point of view that drives Sinn Fein as a party

She humiliated him

Sinn Fein supporters such as Angelo should be howling for McDonald's head over this

Stanley had nothing to apologise for.

I'm not a fan of MLMD, she bows to much to the gutter right wing state media in the Free State.

It's mad how a dogmatic anti-Trump person like you uses so many of his tactics and aligns himself with the right wing parties in the free state.

Being anti-Trump is "dogmatic" now, eh?

Bloody hell

I knew you were a sneaking regarder for him!

Mary Lou threw Stanley under the bus

You now say she bows to "gutter right wing media"

And yet you're still fully aboard the Sinn Fein train

By your own standards that just shows you up as having no principle at all!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:41:26 PM
Bullying goes on in all sections of society including political parties but Sinn Fein is the only party that has a systematic problem with it

It couldn't but have a systematic problem with it because of how it is run and the essential dishonesty and fraud in terms selling itself that drives it as a party

Sinn Fein is the only party that has a bullying problem that stems directly from its cult-like politics

No it's not.

All the major parties have had allegations of bullying it has tried to quell.

The problem for SF is that it has attracted to many snowflakes in recent years and the party is very much a fragment of different views and beliefs. I felt the anti-abortion elements of the party were dealt with very poorly in recent years but other than that I wouldn't see any major issues in that regard.

The only difference is a right wing media who are unashamedly anti-SF and use every storm in a teacup to go after them relentlessly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:49:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:35:47 PM
Also, as Vincent Browne pointed out, Mary Lou McDonald actually threw Brian Stanley under the bus for voicing the central point of view that drives Sinn Fein as a party

She humiliated him

Sinn Fein supporters such as Angelo should be howling for McDonald's head over this

Stanley had nothing to apologise for.

I'm not a fan of MLMD, she bows to much to the gutter right wing state media in the Free State.

It's mad how a dogmatic anti-Trump person like you uses so many of his tactics and aligns himself with the right wing parties in the free state.

Being anti-Trump is "dogmatic" now, eh?

Bloody hell

I knew you were a sneaking regarder for him!

Mary Lou threw Stanley under the bus

You now say she bows to "gutter right wing media"

And yet you're still fully aboard the Sinn Fein train

By your own standards that just shows you up as having no principle at all!

I don't give a toss about Trump or American politics. I just notice how for a man who is so anti-Trump you share a lot in common with him. You're a two faced hypocrite.

SF are the only mainstream republican party on this island. That's the sole basis I vote for them, I am disengaged with a lot of causes and populism they engage with but they are a million miles superior to the likes of the gutter politics SDLP/FF/FG/Lab/Alliance engage in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:50:01 PM
You're complaining about right wing media in the same breath as you complain about the treatment of anti-abortion people  ;D

Bleedin' hell  ;D

Turns out you're as right wing as they come  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:52:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:49:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:35:47 PM
Also, as Vincent Browne pointed out, Mary Lou McDonald actually threw Brian Stanley under the bus for voicing the central point of view that drives Sinn Fein as a party

She humiliated him

Sinn Fein supporters such as Angelo should be howling for McDonald's head over this

Stanley had nothing to apologise for.

I'm not a fan of MLMD, she bows to much to the gutter right wing state media in the Free State.

It's mad how a dogmatic anti-Trump person like you uses so many of his tactics and aligns himself with the right wing parties in the free state.

Being anti-Trump is "dogmatic" now, eh?

Bloody hell

I knew you were a sneaking regarder for him!

Mary Lou threw Stanley under the bus

You now say she bows to "gutter right wing media"

And yet you're still fully aboard the Sinn Fein train

By your own standards that just shows you up as having no principle at all!

I don't give a toss about Trump or American politics. I just notice how for a man who is so anti-Trump you share a lot in common with him. You're a two faced hypocrite.

SF are the only mainstream republican party on this island. That's the sole basis I vote for them, I am disengaged with a lot of causes and populism they engage with but they are a million miles superior to the likes of the gutter politics SDLP/FF/FG/Lab/Alliance engage in.

The amazing thing is you support Sinn Fein yet we've now established that you hate most things about it!

You're all over the place  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:50:01 PM
You're complaining about right wing media in the same breath as you complain about the treatment of anti-abortion people  ;D

Bleedin' hell  ;D

Turns out you're as right wing as they come  ;D

Abortion isn't a left/right issue.

You're a contradiction, you have so so much in common with far right you claim to hate. I find it baffling your dislike for Trump when you follow his tactics and relate to his policies and proclamations.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:52:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:49:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:35:47 PM
Also, as Vincent Browne pointed out, Mary Lou McDonald actually threw Brian Stanley under the bus for voicing the central point of view that drives Sinn Fein as a party

She humiliated him

Sinn Fein supporters such as Angelo should be howling for McDonald's head over this

Stanley had nothing to apologise for.

I'm not a fan of MLMD, she bows to much to the gutter right wing state media in the Free State.

It's mad how a dogmatic anti-Trump person like you uses so many of his tactics and aligns himself with the right wing parties in the free state.

Being anti-Trump is "dogmatic" now, eh?

Bloody hell

I knew you were a sneaking regarder for him!

Mary Lou threw Stanley under the bus

You now say she bows to "gutter right wing media"

And yet you're still fully aboard the Sinn Fein train

By your own standards that just shows you up as having no principle at all!

I don't give a toss about Trump or American politics. I just notice how for a man who is so anti-Trump you share a lot in common with him. You're a two faced hypocrite.

SF are the only mainstream republican party on this island. That's the sole basis I vote for them, I am disengaged with a lot of causes and populism they engage with but they are a million miles superior to the likes of the gutter politics SDLP/FF/FG/Lab/Alliance engage in.

The amazing thing is you support Sinn Fein yet we've now established that you hate most things about it!

You're all over the place  ;D

My red line issue is a left leaning 32 county republic. You seem to be for a partitioned island with corporate interests and gutter Trump politics which is why you refuse to criticise the gutter that is the free state establishment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:59:21 PM
Right

It just so happens that Repeal the 8th had the support of the entirety of the Irish left and the No campaign was entirely driven by right-wingers

You literally couldn't get a more left-right issue

Oh, and maybe get onto Jeremy Corbyn and see what he thinks about abortion as an issue

You won't like the answer

The great irony about all this is your politics are pure virtue signalling with no understanding of the issues, litanies of total contradictions and zero principle
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 03:00:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:52:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:49:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:35:47 PM
Also, as Vincent Browne pointed out, Mary Lou McDonald actually threw Brian Stanley under the bus for voicing the central point of view that drives Sinn Fein as a party

She humiliated him

Sinn Fein supporters such as Angelo should be howling for McDonald's head over this

Stanley had nothing to apologise for.

I'm not a fan of MLMD, she bows to much to the gutter right wing state media in the Free State.

It's mad how a dogmatic anti-Trump person like you uses so many of his tactics and aligns himself with the right wing parties in the free state.

Being anti-Trump is "dogmatic" now, eh?

Bloody hell

I knew you were a sneaking regarder for him!

Mary Lou threw Stanley under the bus

You now say she bows to "gutter right wing media"

And yet you're still fully aboard the Sinn Fein train

By your own standards that just shows you up as having no principle at all!

I don't give a toss about Trump or American politics. I just notice how for a man who is so anti-Trump you share a lot in common with him. You're a two faced hypocrite.

SF are the only mainstream republican party on this island. That's the sole basis I vote for them, I am disengaged with a lot of causes and populism they engage with but they are a million miles superior to the likes of the gutter politics SDLP/FF/FG/Lab/Alliance engage in.

The amazing thing is you support Sinn Fein yet we've now established that you hate most things about it!

You're all over the place  ;D

My red line issue is a left leaning 32 county republic. You seem to be for a partitioned island with corporate interests and gutter Trump politics which is why you refuse to criticise the gutter that is the free state establishment.

When in a hole, just make up stuff

The Sinn Fein way
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 03:00:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:52:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:49:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 02:35:47 PM
Also, as Vincent Browne pointed out, Mary Lou McDonald actually threw Brian Stanley under the bus for voicing the central point of view that drives Sinn Fein as a party

She humiliated him

Sinn Fein supporters such as Angelo should be howling for McDonald's head over this

Stanley had nothing to apologise for.

I'm not a fan of MLMD, she bows to much to the gutter right wing state media in the Free State.

It's mad how a dogmatic anti-Trump person like you uses so many of his tactics and aligns himself with the right wing parties in the free state.

Being anti-Trump is "dogmatic" now, eh?

Bloody hell

I knew you were a sneaking regarder for him!

Mary Lou threw Stanley under the bus

You now say she bows to "gutter right wing media"

And yet you're still fully aboard the Sinn Fein train

By your own standards that just shows you up as having no principle at all!

I don't give a toss about Trump or American politics. I just notice how for a man who is so anti-Trump you share a lot in common with him. You're a two faced hypocrite.

SF are the only mainstream republican party on this island. That's the sole basis I vote for them, I am disengaged with a lot of causes and populism they engage with but they are a million miles superior to the likes of the gutter politics SDLP/FF/FG/Lab/Alliance engage in.

The amazing thing is you support Sinn Fein yet we've now established that you hate most things about it!

You're all over the place  ;D

My red line issue is a left leaning 32 county republic. You seem to be for a partitioned island with corporate interests and gutter Trump politics which is why you refuse to criticise the gutter that is the free state establishment.

When in a hole, just make up stuff

The Sid way

Fixed that for you, lies and contradictions is all you have to bring to the table. You've ran rings around yourself with a few pointers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2020, 03:06:26 PM
Must be a record- 2 pages of "you are ignoring this user"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on December 11, 2020, 03:29:28 PM
Angelo go easy now the Free State FG party is financed by the likes of Denis Desmond who is the owner of Celtic.The fans in a indirect way are paying for these donations.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 04:06:18 PM
Quote from: skeog on December 11, 2020, 03:29:28 PM
Angelo go easy now the Free State FG party is financed by the likes of Denis Desmond who is the owner of Celtic.The fans in a indirect way are paying for these donations.

Sack the board.

Desmond, Lawwell, Lennon out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 04:52:01 PM
Quote from: skeog on December 11, 2020, 03:29:28 PM
Angelo go easy now the Free State FG party is financed by the likes of Denis Desmond who is the owner of Celtic.The fans in a indirect way are paying for these donations.
Dermot

Desmond's involvement makes Celtic a West Brit club by Angelo's standards

On top of them being an Iraq War supporting club
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 04:55:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 11, 2020, 04:52:01 PM
Quote from: skeog on December 11, 2020, 03:29:28 PM
Angelo go easy now the Free State FG party is financed by the likes of Denis Desmond who is the owner of Celtic.The fans in a indirect way are paying for these donations.
Dermot

Desmond's involvement makes Celtic a West Brit club by Angelo's standards

On top of them being an Iraq War supporting club

Something that has never sat well with the fanbase as a whole.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
Why wouid any northern nationalist care about comparing FF FG to SF, is that people's only defence against SF incompetence on here?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
Why wouid any northern nationalist care about comparing FF FG to SF, is that people's only defence against SF incompetence on here?
Sinn Fein have to i) create enemies and ii) create a sort of moral confusion - a sort of "who is to say what is right and what is wrong?"

Both of these are straight from Putin's tactics

Russia is the go to source for tactics and strategy when you cannot defend your arguments in good faith

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 12, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
Why wouid any northern nationalist care about comparing FF FG to SF, is that people's only defence against SF incompetence on here?

I don't like parties that stood back and enabled a loyalist pogrom and British state forces terrorise the nationalist community then use victims of the troubles to score political points against their opponents.

It's nasty and cynical and insulting to northern nationalists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 11:59:45 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 12, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
Why wouid any northern nationalist care about comparing FF FG to SF, is that people's only defence against SF incompetence on here?

I don't like parties that stood back and enabled a loyalist pogrom and British state forces terrorise the nationalist community then use victims of the troubles to score political points against their opponents.

It's nasty and cynical and insulting to northern nationalists.

Would you ever devalve hi, honestly it doesn't matter to us, it's just a manufactured ploy to gain power in South. Get with the facts , ROI is a really good country on a world stage, yes the west Brits are dicks but Shinners wouid destroy Irish economic gains. The truth is bitter sometimes
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 01:14:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 12, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
Why wouid any northern nationalist care about comparing FF FG to SF, is that people's only defence against SF incompetence on here?

I don't like parties that stood back and enabled a loyalist pogrom and British state forces terrorise the nationalist community then use victims of the troubles to score political points against their opponents.

It's nasty and cynical and insulting to northern nationalists.
Your narrative now is that what happened in the North before, during and after the Troubles should be an election issue in the Republic - that it should influence who people in the Republic vote for

And yet when this is applied to Sinn Fein, your narrative is the exact opposite - "this is unfair!!!!!"

What a load of hypocritical shite

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 11:59:45 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 12, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
Why wouid any northern nationalist care about comparing FF FG to SF, is that people's only defence against SF incompetence on here?

I don't like parties that stood back and enabled a loyalist pogrom and British state forces terrorise the nationalist community then use victims of the troubles to score political points against their opponents.

It's nasty and cynical and insulting to northern nationalists.

Would you ever devalve hi, honestly it doesn't matter to us, it's just a manufactured ploy to gain power in South. Get with the facts , ROI is a really good country on a world stage, yes the west Brits are dicks but Shinners wouid destroy Irish economic gains. The truth is bitter sometimes
If Sinn Fein want to call people "west Brits", they shouldn't then complain when people then brand them as sectarian murderers or Trumpists

Two can play that game

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 01:44:09 PM
Any chance Sid and Angelo would feck off and spend a week in Brian Stanley's house?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 02:03:51 PM
I reserve the right to call a west brit a f**king West brit. Like poppy wearing Frank Feighan for example, an utter west brit. Or the gobshites thet want to honour the RIC, more west brits.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 02:03:51 PM
I reserve the right to call a west brit a f**king West brit. Like poppy wearing Frank Feighan for example, an utter west brit. Or the gobshites thet want to honour the RIC, more west brits.
But this fails or refuses to understand the wider ramifications of doing such

Calling somebody a "west Brit" is pure name calling and nothing more

If you see name calling as legitimate, then others will also engage in it against you

And you have no comeback, because you introduced it in the first place

Do not then complain when Irish politics descends into a US style culture war shitshow - because language such as "west Brits" explictly makes it such

Do not then complain when real issues that affect people's day to day lives vanish from the news

Calling somebody a "west Brit" is a cop out - it's a refusal to deal with real issues

Instead of showing a concern for politics, it shows the opposite - a total disregard for politics, total disregard for real issues, and then, you get the sort of politics you deserve - one that is staffed by useless incompetents - that's what you have in Stormont

It's also an actual example of cancel culture

As somebody from the Republic, I don't want the Dáil to turn into Stormont but it seems that that's what a lot of Sinn Feiners want
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 12, 2020, 01:36:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 11:59:45 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 12, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
Why wouid any northern nationalist care about comparing FF FG to SF, is that people's only defence against SF incompetence on here?

I don't like parties that stood back and enabled a loyalist pogrom and British state forces terrorise the nationalist community then use victims of the troubles to score political points against their opponents.

It's nasty and cynical and insulting to northern nationalists.

Would you ever devalve hi, honestly it doesn't matter to us, it's just a manufactured ploy to gain power in South. Get with the facts , ROI is a really good country on a world stage, yes the west Brits are dicks but Shinners wouid destroy Irish economic gains. The truth is bitter sometimes
If Sinn Fein want to call people "west Brits", they shouldn't then complain when people then brand them as sectarian murderers or Trumpists

Two can play that game
If the Trumpist, sectarian murderers don't complain but in turn call those other people "sectarian murderers who became west brits", where do we go from there?
But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane

Sinn Fein are the people who have put politics in the Republic down this road

If you're happy to give it, don't complain when you have to take it

I say this as somebody who voted no. 1 for Sinn Fein in 2011 and 2016
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.

100%

And sorry sid, calling something what it is is not name calling in my book.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:40:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.
I didn't say the comments were sectarian in and of themselves

I said Sinn Fein and Stanley glorify a campaign which had sectarian murder as an integral part

Which they did

You call the Auxiliaries and the Paras "murdering bastards"

As forces, I wouldn't disagree

But so were the PIRA murdering bastards
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.

100%

And sorry sid, calling something what it is is not name calling in my book.
Well if you're to take the literal interpretation of what a west Brit is - which you invite the reader to do - it would refer to somebody from the western part of Britain, for example, Wales

But if you're being literal - which you say you are - when you call people born and bred in Ireland "west Brits", the only explanation for that would be that you actually believe Ireland is part of Britain

Which would be incredibly ironic

But of course in reality it's just a pathetic, childish slur against Irish people whose opinions you don't like but who you don't have the smarts to actually argue against

You don't have to like anybody's opinions, fine, but argue properly against them, because by doing nothing other than calling those people stupid names, you actually give them the moral high ground and unintentionally afford them a credibility you simultaneously deny to yourself
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seaney on December 12, 2020, 11:02:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.

100%

And sorry sid, calling something what it is is not name calling in my book.
Well if you're to take the literal interpretation of what a west Brit is - which you invite the reader to do - it would refer to somebody from the western part of Britain, for example, Wales

But if you're being literal - which you say you are - when you call people born and bred in Ireland "west Brits", the only explanation for that would be that you actually believe Ireland is part of Britain

Which would be incredibly ironic

But of course in reality it's just a pathetic, childish slur against Irish people whose opinions you don't like but who you don't have the smarts to actually argue against

You don't have to like anybody's opinions, fine, but argue properly against them, because by doing nothing other than calling those people stupid names, you actually give them the moral high ground and unintentionally afford them a credibility you simultaneously deny to yourself

Or against I am lucky enough to be born in the free state, f**k do I care selling out the nordies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 12, 2020, 11:24:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:40:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.
I didn't say the comments were sectarian in and of themselves

I said Sinn Fein and Stanley glorify a campaign which had sectarian murder as an integral part

Which they did

You call the Auxiliaries and the Paras "murdering bastards"

As forces, I wouldn't disagree

But so were the PIRA murdering bastards

How does it feel to live in the freedom won for you by violent republicans standing up against the most despicable murdering empire in history that makes Hitler, Stalin and Mao look like amateurs. You are the epitome of a West Brit. Deluded arsehole.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: restorepride on December 12, 2020, 11:33:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 12, 2020, 01:36:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 11:59:45 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 12, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
Why wouid any northern nationalist care about comparing FF FG to SF, is that people's only defence against SF incompetence on here?

I don't like parties that stood back and enabled a loyalist pogrom and British state forces terrorise the nationalist community then use victims of the troubles to score political points against their opponents.

It's nasty and cynical and insulting to northern nationalists.

Would you ever devalve hi, honestly it doesn't matter to us, it's just a manufactured ploy to gain power in South. Get with the facts , ROI is a really good country on a world stage, yes the west Brits are dicks but Shinners wouid destroy Irish economic gains. The truth is bitter sometimes
If Sinn Fein want to call people "west Brits", they shouldn't then complain when people then brand them as sectarian murderers or Trumpists

Two can play that game
If the Trumpist, sectarian murderers don't complain but in turn call those other people "sectarian murderers who became west brits", where do we go from there?
But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane

Sinn Fein are the people who have put politics in the Republic down this road

If you're happy to give it, don't complain when you have to take it

I say this as somebody who voted no. 1 for Sinn Fein in 2011 and 2016
Reading your sectarian comments, I'm surprised you were even allowed to vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 11:55:07 PM
If his name is on the Reguster he's entitled to vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thebigfella on December 13, 2020, 12:28:30 AM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 11:24:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:40:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.
I didn't say the comments were sectarian in and of themselves

I said Sinn Fein and Stanley glorify a campaign which had sectarian murder as an integral part

Which they did

You call the Auxiliaries and the Paras "murdering bastards"

As forces, I wouldn't disagree

But so were the PIRA murdering bastards

How does it feel to live in the freedom won for you by violent republicans standing up against the most despicable murdering empire in history that makes Hitler, Stalin and Mao look like amateurs. You are the epitome of a West Brit. Deluded arsehole.

:D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 13, 2020, 08:15:32 AM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 11:24:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:40:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.
I didn't say the comments were sectarian in and of themselves

I said Sinn Fein and Stanley glorify a campaign which had sectarian murder as an integral part

Which they did

You call the Auxiliaries and the Paras "murdering bastards"

As forces, I wouldn't disagree

But so were the PIRA murdering bastards

How does it feel to live in the freedom won for you by violent republicans standing up against the most despicable murdering empire in history that makes Hitler, Stalin and Mao look like amateurs. You are the epitome of a West Brit. Deluded arsehole.
Did you not get the memo? Blowing up British soldiers and executing them by the side of the road is only morally acceptable pre-partition. Sectarianism only ever existed in the northern state and the IRA 1970 onwards were waging a sectarian war in a bid to kill all Protestants.

Seriously though, the hypocrisy among some people is astonishing and would make most unionists blush.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 13, 2020, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.

100%

And sorry sid, calling something what it is is not name calling in my book.
Well if you're to take the literal interpretation of what a west Brit is - which you invite the reader to do - it would refer to somebody from the western part of Britain, for example, Wales

But if you're being literal - which you say you are - when you call people born and bred in Ireland "west Brits", the only explanation for that would be that you actually believe Ireland is part of Britain

Which would be incredibly ironic

But of course in reality it's just a pathetic, childish slur against Irish people whose opinions you don't like but who you don't have the smarts to actually argue against

You don't have to like anybody's opinions, fine, but argue properly against them, because by doing nothing other than calling those people stupid names, you actually give them the moral high ground and unintentionally afford them a credibility you simultaneously deny to yourself

"childish" That would imply I am a child, but in fact I am an adult in my 40s.
"Stupid", That would imply I am lack intelligence, but I have a degree and a masters and work as a manager in a medical device company.

You should concentrate on debating and not throwing around these slurs sir. It totally belittles the really clever arguments you make on the use of the English language and your incredible knowledge of Geography will be wasted if you don't improve the delivery of your arguments.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 13, 2020, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.

100%

And sorry sid, calling something what it is is not name calling in my book.
Well if you're to take the literal interpretation of what a west Brit is - which you invite the reader to do - it would refer to somebody from the western part of Britain, for example, Wales

But if you're being literal - which you say you are - when you call people born and bred in Ireland "west Brits", the only explanation for that would be that you actually believe Ireland is part of Britain

Which would be incredibly ironic

But of course in reality it's just a pathetic, childish slur against Irish people whose opinions you don't like but who you don't have the smarts to actually argue against

You don't have to like anybody's opinions, fine, but argue properly against them, because by doing nothing other than calling those people stupid names, you actually give them the moral high ground and unintentionally afford them a credibility you simultaneously deny to yourself

"childish" That would imply I am a child, but in fact I am an adult in my 40s.
"Stupid", That would imply I am lack intelligence, but I have a degree and a masters and work as a manager in a medical device company.

You should concentrate on debating and not throwing around these slurs sir. It totally belittles the really clever arguments you make on the use of the English language and your incredible knowledge of Geography will be wasted if you don't improve the delivery of your arguments.
Childish - "of, like, appropriate to a child"

Which calling people "west Brits" is

I didn't call you "stupid" - I said calling people "west Brits" when you can't argue against the points of other people, is stupid

Which it is

Ironically with that post - because you show you're unable
i) to distinguish between something being childish, and being a child
ii) something being stupid and somebody being stupid...

well, it should be obvious, shouldn't it?

Did you have a basic English language comprehension failing - or maybe it was a deliberate, performative comprehension failing?

Your argument is that because you have a Masters degree and work as a manager in a medical device company (well done on that) that it proves you are an intelligent commentator on Irish politics and history

It definitely doesn't and your posts here have been the opposite of intelligent commentary

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2020, 12:28:30 AM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 11:24:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:40:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.
I didn't say the comments were sectarian in and of themselves

I said Sinn Fein and Stanley glorify a campaign which had sectarian murder as an integral part

Which they did

You call the Auxiliaries and the Paras "murdering bastards"

As forces, I wouldn't disagree

But so were the PIRA murdering bastards

How does it feel to live in the freedom won for you by violent republicans standing up against the most despicable murdering empire in history that makes Hitler, Stalin and Mao look like amateurs. You are the epitome of a West Brit. Deluded arsehole.

:D
It was quite predictable that a Sinn Fein supporter would leap in and try to lessen the crimes of Hitler

A sort of Up the RA Godwin's Law

You didn't address the point - I called the PIRA murdering bastards, but clearly you disagree

You disagree that those who murdered the workmen at Kingsmills and Joanne Mathers and the people at Enniskillen and the members of the Irish Collie Club and Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry and the people buying fish on the Shankill Road were murdering bastards

That signifies at least some degree of agreement with those murders

In short, the attitude of Sinn Fein supporters on this forum is: murdering civilians is just fine, as long as our lads did it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:52:05 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 13, 2020, 08:15:32 AM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 11:24:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:40:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.
I didn't say the comments were sectarian in and of themselves

I said Sinn Fein and Stanley glorify a campaign which had sectarian murder as an integral part

Which they did

You call the Auxiliaries and the Paras "murdering bastards"

As forces, I wouldn't disagree

But so were the PIRA murdering bastards

How does it feel to live in the freedom won for you by violent republicans standing up against the most despicable murdering empire in history that makes Hitler, Stalin and Mao look like amateurs. You are the epitome of a West Brit. Deluded arsehole.
Did you not get the memo? Blowing up British soldiers and executing them by the side of the road is only morally acceptable pre-partition. Sectarianism only ever existed in the northern state and the IRA 1970 onwards were waging a sectarian war in a bid to kill all Protestants.

Seriously though, the hypocrisy among some people is astonishing and would make most unionists blush.
How is it not hypocritical that Sinn Fein supporters believe it was acceptable for the PIRA to murder civilians, but not acceptable for anybody else?

This is the central hypocrisy that sustains Sinn Fein to this day
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: restorepride on December 12, 2020, 11:33:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 12, 2020, 01:36:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 11:59:45 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 12, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 12, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
Why wouid any northern nationalist care about comparing FF FG to SF, is that people's only defence against SF incompetence on here?

I don't like parties that stood back and enabled a loyalist pogrom and British state forces terrorise the nationalist community then use victims of the troubles to score political points against their opponents.

It's nasty and cynical and insulting to northern nationalists.

Would you ever devalve hi, honestly it doesn't matter to us, it's just a manufactured ploy to gain power in South. Get with the facts , ROI is a really good country on a world stage, yes the west Brits are dicks but Shinners wouid destroy Irish economic gains. The truth is bitter sometimes
If Sinn Fein want to call people "west Brits", they shouldn't then complain when people then brand them as sectarian murderers or Trumpists

Two can play that game
If the Trumpist, sectarian murderers don't complain but in turn call those other people "sectarian murderers who became west brits", where do we go from there?
But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane

Sinn Fein are the people who have put politics in the Republic down this road

If you're happy to give it, don't complain when you have to take it

I say this as somebody who voted no. 1 for Sinn Fein in 2011 and 2016
Reading your sectarian comments, I'm surprised you were even allowed to vote.

What on earth is sectarian about my comments?

You're resorting to lying, now

One can only presume that you think being against sectarian murder is actually sectarian now?  ;D

Applying your standard would make John Hume "sectarian"

Hint: When in a hole, don't dig deeper
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 13, 2020, 12:15:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 13, 2020, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.

100%

And sorry sid, calling something what it is is not name calling in my book.
Well if you're to take the literal interpretation of what a west Brit is - which you invite the reader to do - it would refer to somebody from the western part of Britain, for example, Wales

But if you're being literal - which you say you are - when you call people born and bred in Ireland "west Brits", the only explanation for that would be that you actually believe Ireland is part of Britain

Which would be incredibly ironic

But of course in reality it's just a pathetic, childish slur against Irish people whose opinions you don't like but who you don't have the smarts to actually argue against

You don't have to like anybody's opinions, fine, but argue properly against them, because by doing nothing other than calling those people stupid names, you actually give them the moral high ground and unintentionally afford them a credibility you simultaneously deny to yourself

"childish" That would imply I am a child, but in fact I am an adult in my 40s.
"Stupid", That would imply I am lack intelligence, but I have a degree and a masters and work as a manager in a medical device company.

You should concentrate on debating and not throwing around these slurs sir. It totally belittles the really clever arguments you make on the use of the English language and your incredible knowledge of Geography will be wasted if you don't improve the delivery of your arguments.
Childish - "of, like, appropriate to a child"

Which calling people "west Brits" is

I didn't call you "stupid" - I said calling people "west Brits" when you can't argue against the points of other people, is stupid

Which it is

Ironically with that post - because you show you're unable
i) to distinguish between something being childish, and being a child
ii) something being stupid and somebody being stupid...

well, it should be obvious, shouldn't it?

Did you have a basic English language comprehension failing - or maybe it was a deliberate, performative comprehension failing?

Your argument is that because you have a Masters degree and work as a manager in a medical device company (well done on that) that it proves you are an intelligent commentator on Irish politics and history

It definitely doesn't and your posts here have been the opposite of intelligent commentary

Let's just stop comparing the size of our dicks Sid and just agree you are a sad little west brit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 12:33:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 13, 2020, 12:15:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 13, 2020, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.

100%

And sorry sid, calling something what it is is not name calling in my book.
Well if you're to take the literal interpretation of what a west Brit is - which you invite the reader to do - it would refer to somebody from the western part of Britain, for example, Wales

But if you're being literal - which you say you are - when you call people born and bred in Ireland "west Brits", the only explanation for that would be that you actually believe Ireland is part of Britain

Which would be incredibly ironic

But of course in reality it's just a pathetic, childish slur against Irish people whose opinions you don't like but who you don't have the smarts to actually argue against

You don't have to like anybody's opinions, fine, but argue properly against them, because by doing nothing other than calling those people stupid names, you actually give them the moral high ground and unintentionally afford them a credibility you simultaneously deny to yourself

"childish" That would imply I am a child, but in fact I am an adult in my 40s.
"Stupid", That would imply I am lack intelligence, but I have a degree and a masters and work as a manager in a medical device company.

You should concentrate on debating and not throwing around these slurs sir. It totally belittles the really clever arguments you make on the use of the English language and your incredible knowledge of Geography will be wasted if you don't improve the delivery of your arguments.
Childish - "of, like, appropriate to a child"

Which calling people "west Brits" is

I didn't call you "stupid" - I said calling people "west Brits" when you can't argue against the points of other people, is stupid

Which it is

Ironically with that post - because you show you're unable
i) to distinguish between something being childish, and being a child
ii) something being stupid and somebody being stupid...

well, it should be obvious, shouldn't it?

Did you have a basic English language comprehension failing - or maybe it was a deliberate, performative comprehension failing?

Your argument is that because you have a Masters degree and work as a manager in a medical device company (well done on that) that it proves you are an intelligent commentator on Irish politics and history

It definitely doesn't and your posts here have been the opposite of intelligent commentary

Let's just stop comparing the size of our dicks Sid and just agree you are a sad little west brit.
You're doing a superb job of proving my point about you and other Sinn Fein supporters here - how you resort to name calling when you don't have the ability to debate

The above post is a classic example

Thanks for doing that

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 13, 2020, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 12:33:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 13, 2020, 12:15:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 13, 2020, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.

100%

And sorry sid, calling something what it is is not name calling in my book.
Well if you're to take the literal interpretation of what a west Brit is - which you invite the reader to do - it would refer to somebody from the western part of Britain, for example, Wales

But if you're being literal - which you say you are - when you call people born and bred in Ireland "west Brits", the only explanation for that would be that you actually believe Ireland is part of Britain

Which would be incredibly ironic

But of course in reality it's just a pathetic, childish slur against Irish people whose opinions you don't like but who you don't have the smarts to actually argue against

You don't have to like anybody's opinions, fine, but argue properly against them, because by doing nothing other than calling those people stupid names, you actually give them the moral high ground and unintentionally afford them a credibility you simultaneously deny to yourself

"childish" That would imply I am a child, but in fact I am an adult in my 40s.
"Stupid", That would imply I am lack intelligence, but I have a degree and a masters and work as a manager in a medical device company.

You should concentrate on debating and not throwing around these slurs sir. It totally belittles the really clever arguments you make on the use of the English language and your incredible knowledge of Geography will be wasted if you don't improve the delivery of your arguments.
Childish - "of, like, appropriate to a child"

Which calling people "west Brits" is

I didn't call you "stupid" - I said calling people "west Brits" when you can't argue against the points of other people, is stupid

Which it is

Ironically with that post - because you show you're unable
i) to distinguish between something being childish, and being a child
ii) something being stupid and somebody being stupid...

well, it should be obvious, shouldn't it?

Did you have a basic English language comprehension failing - or maybe it was a deliberate, performative comprehension failing?

Your argument is that because you have a Masters degree and work as a manager in a medical device company (well done on that) that it proves you are an intelligent commentator on Irish politics and history

It definitely doesn't and your posts here have been the opposite of intelligent commentary

Let's just stop comparing the size of our dicks Sid and just agree you are a sad little west brit.
You're doing a superb job of proving my point about you and other Sinn Fein supporters here - how you resort to name calling when you don't have the ability to debate

The above post is a classic example

Thanks for doing that

You do a good job of proving other's peoples views about you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 13, 2020, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2020, 12:28:30 AM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 11:24:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2020, 10:40:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 12, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
What was sectarian in Stanley's comments? Kilmichael was an operation against murdering Auxilliary bastards. Narrow Water was an operation against murdering Parachute Regiment bastards.
I didn't say the comments were sectarian in and of themselves

I said Sinn Fein and Stanley glorify a campaign which had sectarian murder as an integral part

Which they did

You call the Auxiliaries and the Paras "murdering bastards"

As forces, I wouldn't disagree

But so were the PIRA murdering bastards

How does it feel to live in the freedom won for you by violent republicans standing up against the most despicable murdering empire in history that makes Hitler, Stalin and Mao look like amateurs. You are the epitome of a West Brit. Deluded arsehole.

:D
It was quite predictable that a Sinn Fein supporter would leap in and try to lessen the crimes of Hitler

A sort of Up the RA Godwin's Law

You didn't address the point - I called the PIRA murdering bastards, but clearly you disagree

You disagree that those who murdered the workmen at Kingsmills and Joanne Mathers and the people at Enniskillen and the members of the Irish Collie Club and Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry and the people buying fish on the Shankill Road were murdering bastards

That signifies at least some degree of agreement with those murders

In short, the attitude of Sinn Fein supporters on this forum is: murdering civilians is just fine, as long as our lads did it

Lessen the crimes of Hitler? Jesus wept, what a pathetic take on what I said. I am merely pointing out that more people died under the British Empire than under Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and you turn me into a Nazi. BTW, who invented the concentration camp?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 13, 2020, 03:40:51 PM
Lessen the crimes of Hitler? Jesus wept, what a pathetic take on what I said. I am merely pointing out that more people died under the British Empire than under Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and you turn me into a Nazi. BTW, who invented the concentration camp?
If you're going to attempt to lessen the crimes of Hitler, as you did - expect to get pulled up on it!

I didn't turn you into a Nazi - you brought the Nazis up in an attempt to lessen their crimes - Sinn Fein and their supporters certainly don't seem to have a problem with Nazi dog whistles - as can be seen from Mary Lou McDonald honoring a Nazi collaborator in Sean Russell

It's very curious

And reasonable people would say, utterly pathetic




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 13, 2020, 04:14:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 13, 2020, 03:40:51 PM
Lessen the crimes of Hitler? Jesus wept, what a pathetic take on what I said. I am merely pointing out that more people died under the British Empire than under Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and you turn me into a Nazi. BTW, who invented the concentration camp?
If you're going to attempt to lessen the crimes of Hitler, as you did - expect to get pulled up on it!

I didn't turn you into a Nazi - you brought the Nazis up in an attempt to lessen their crimes - Sinn Fein and their supporters certainly don't seem to have a problem with Nazi dog whistles - as can be seen from Mary Lou McDonald honoring a Nazi collaborator in Sean Russell

It's very curious

And reasonable people would say, utterly pathetic

You really are a deluded fool. Your argument is the only thing that is utterly pathetic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 13, 2020, 04:14:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 13, 2020, 03:40:51 PM
Lessen the crimes of Hitler? Jesus wept, what a pathetic take on what I said. I am merely pointing out that more people died under the British Empire than under Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and you turn me into a Nazi. BTW, who invented the concentration camp?
If you're going to attempt to lessen the crimes of Hitler, as you did - expect to get pulled up on it!

I didn't turn you into a Nazi - you brought the Nazis up in an attempt to lessen their crimes - Sinn Fein and their supporters certainly don't seem to have a problem with Nazi dog whistles - as can be seen from Mary Lou McDonald honoring a Nazi collaborator in Sean Russell

It's very curious

And reasonable people would say, utterly pathetic

You really are a deluded fool. Your argument is the only thing that is utterly pathetic.
Again, personal abuse from a Shinner - but never arguments

Thanks

Like shooting fish in a barrel - metaphorically speaking, of course

As opposed to shooting real people, which Shinners prefer!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 13, 2020, 06:19:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 13, 2020, 04:14:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 13, 2020, 03:40:51 PM
Lessen the crimes of Hitler? Jesus wept, what a pathetic take on what I said. I am merely pointing out that more people died under the British Empire than under Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and you turn me into a Nazi. BTW, who invented the concentration camp?
If you're going to attempt to lessen the crimes of Hitler, as you did - expect to get pulled up on it!

I didn't turn you into a Nazi - you brought the Nazis up in an attempt to lessen their crimes - Sinn Fein and their supporters certainly don't seem to have a problem with Nazi dog whistles - as can be seen from Mary Lou McDonald honoring a Nazi collaborator in Sean Russell

It's very curious

And reasonable people would say, utterly pathetic

You really are a deluded fool. Your argument is the only thing that is utterly pathetic.
Again, personal abuse from a Shinner - but never arguments

Thanks

Like shooting fish in a barrel - metaphorically speaking, of course

As opposed to shooting real people, which Shinners prefer!

::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 13, 2020, 10:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
In short, the attitude of Sinn Fein supporters on this forum is: murdering civilians is just fine, as long as our lads did it

Who said that murdering civilians was fine?

If anything, the prevailing attitude among Free Staters like yourself is that it murdering civilians is morally repugnant when the Provos did it, but that the Old IRA either didn't murder civilians/ murdered very few civilians or that it's just not cool to go around reminding anybody about when the Old IRA murdered civilians.

The reality is that if you are happy to present the Provos campaign as a sectarian murder rampage, then it's just laughably hypocritical and plaint sanctimonious codology to view the Old IRA campaign as anything different. That's the reality that Free Staters need to come to terms with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 13, 2020, 10:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
In short, the attitude of Sinn Fein supporters on this forum is: murdering civilians is just fine, as long as our lads did it

Who said that murdering civilians was fine?

If anything, the prevailing attitude among Free Staters like yourself is that it murdering civilians is morally repugnant when the Provos did it, but that the Old IRA either didn't murder civilians/ murdered very few civilians or that it's just not cool to go around reminding anybody about when the Old IRA murdered civilians.

The reality is that if you are happy to present the Provos campaign as a sectarian murder rampage, then it's just laughably hypocritical and plaint sanctimonious codology to view the Old IRA campaign as anything different. That's the reality that Free Staters need to come to terms with.
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And now we're being asked to forget that

War is a last resort, right? And it can really only be morally justified when there is a chance of victory or some sort of negotiated settlement that gets you most of what you want

The old IRA at least saw that, they had a chance of victory or some sort of negotiated settlement to get what they wanted, but even then, they stopped in the summer of 1921 because they couldn't justify the continuing toll on the people 

I think you can issue a plausible moral justification for violence from 1969 to some nebulous point in the early 1970s

But when in the 1970s did it become obvious that the PIRA had no chance of achieving what they wanted through war?

Very early, I would suggest

Like, in 1973 or 1974 it was already obvious they had no hope whatsoever of achieving a united Ireland through violence

Yet they continued until 1997 - that's at least 23 or 24 years of totally futile violence

That's totally morally indefensible

And at the end of it all, it produced pretty much nothing - nothing that couldn't have been produced by peace - the PIRA lost, inevitably, they were always going to lose, because they did not have the support of the people

So there is a moral difference in terms of the totality of the campaigns, though of course the old IRA committed acts which were utterly abhorrent - and the moral case for the old IRA's war was questionable at best

Also, if one is to justify Warrenpoint or any number of booby trap car bombs which killed RUC officers, one should therefore logically justify the murder of Ronan Kerr or the attempted murder and serious maiming of Peadar Heffron

Because they too were effectively "Crown Forces" - when you get down to brass tacks, that's what the PSNI are - Crown Forces

Yet Sinn Fein condemn these murders and attempted murders of PSNI officers - seems a tacit admission that the decades of identical murders and attempted murders they supported was all for nowt, doesn't it

There was a former IRA guy in the Spotlight series last year, Tommy Gorman, who broke down when he asked himself the question, "what was it all for, what was it all about?", "I could have done better things, it was a waste of time and a waste of life"

That's exactly what it was, a waste of time and a waste of life for a fever dream of murdering for the oul' sod - blood and soil, with the emphasis very much on the blood

It's at 55:35 here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WAbc0Go5RA&ab_channel=SluggerO%27Toole
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 14, 2020, 09:11:12 AM
Wow wow wow. Easy on the facts there Snapchap. Freestaters don't like them and chose to ignore them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 09:35:40 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overewhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold level standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

Superb post

The red torch, yes there was a totally sinister feeling when approaching it and to this day it resonates, will have to be mindful today for the peace the republican movement has delivered for the 6co's while also moving us inexorably towards reunification in spite of the Free State quislings
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 09:48:51 AM
Who are ye going to "reunify" with?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

Excellent post and you can get ready for a barrage of mental gymnastics as Sid will defend murdering civilians on one hand while getting up his soap box to vilify those who did on the other.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 09:48:51 AM
Who are ye going to "reunify" with?

I know you want to retain Roscommon as a demilitrized zone for quislings, with that in mind maybe you could unify yourself with Hertfordshire, seems more your cup of tae
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Dont give up the day job Tiempo ;D.
Can't see a majority in the 26 voting to "reunify" with the Angelos, Snapchaps and others of similar abusive mindsets.
Hard to see them convincing many of the 20% "others" in the 6 Cos either.
Marylou will have to tell a lot of her crew to stay at home and stay quiet for a year before any referendum.

Meanwhile

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40190259.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 11:59:31 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Dont give up the day job Tiempo ;D.
Can't see a majority in the 26 voting to "reunify" with the Angelos, Snapchaps and others of similar abusive mindsets.
Hard to see them convincing many of the 20% "others" in the 6 Cos either.
Marylou will have to tell a lot of her crew to stay at home and stay quiet for a year before any referendum.

Meanwhile

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40190259.html

Why should he?

When the leader of the state is going around leaking documents to friends and picking his friends for high ranking judicial jobs and gets exposed on it. He tells a fairytale and the press suppress it.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Dont give up the day job Tiempo ;D.
Can't see a majority in the 26 voting to "reunify" with the Angelos, Snapchaps and others of similar abusive mindsets.
Hard to see them convincing many of the 20% "others" in the 6 Cos either.
Marylou will have to tell a lot of her crew to stay at home and stay quiet for a year before any referendum.

Meanwhile

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40190259.html

Erstwhile, a dip into the bin of Sammy Wilson quotes

"The GAA is the sporting wing of the IRA"
"I don't care if [gays] are ratepayers. As far as I am concerned they are perverts"
"Taigs don't pay rates"
"They [Sinn Féin voters in the Oldpark area of Belfast] are sub-human animals"

But in the shires of Roscommon you denounce FF/FG entering government with SF, but in the 6co's you expect SF to enter power-sharing coalition with the DUP.

Sorry what was your point again?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

This is true.

Derry won the All Ireland in 1993.  As thousands of supporters made their way home late on the Sunday night from Dublin, they happened upon a traffic jam in the middle of Cookstown.

A British Army checkpoint had backed the cars up the whole way along the (very long) main street.  This was targeted harassment on it's own but the kicker is that this traffic jam conveniently allowed mobs of drunken Loyalists to stone the supporter's cars, loaded with families - jubilant men, women and children.

The Army continued to stop the cars and left the people in the firing line.  They pretended not to notice the Loyalists.

Things like this cause things like Canary Wharf.

Reminder to Sid - this was 1993.

Edit:  You would not have heard mention of this on RTE that night.  Hypothetically, had Kerry supporters been stoned by angry Dublin fans at Newlands Cross, it would have been plastered all over your news.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

But it's not a lie - you just brand it a lie because you don't like the truth, because the truth offends you

The IRA killed 644 civilians

They killed more Catholics than any other single entity in the Troubles did

Civilian slaughter was an integral part of their campaign

Your justification for this civilian slaughter is the same sort of justification as the US used for the slaughter of civilians in Iraq

The argument that the PIRA campaign brought peace and civil rights is complete balderdash - they only brought decades of immeasurable grief and pain

The PIRA campaign held back civil rights in Northern Ireland for decades, it killed any sort of hope of a normal politics

What your post is is a sob story from a supporter of civilian murder - you - to justify that civilian murder

You're from alone on this forum in doing that

It's sunk cost fallacy

Ironically, the Loyalist butchers who went around slaughtering young Catholic girls in mobile shops and lads walking home from pubs would offer the exact same justification as you do for civilian slaughter - it was "necessary"

But it wasn't necessary, it was totally futile

You can't face up to the truth because to do that would be too tough mentally, so you decide to carry on fooling yourself that blowing up Marie Wilson, shooting Joanne Mathers and blowing up Jonathan Ball was justified

Then, predictably, you get the right wing nationalist circle jerkers who are trapped in the same circle of utter denial gathering round to offer moral support for your denial, like it's a children's playground - this is genuinely the way Sinn Feiners on this board approach "debate" - children's playground backslapping and cheering for anybody who issues justifications for a nearly three decades long campaign of insanity

You didn't address the hypocrisy about the murder of Ronan Kerr and the attempted murder of Peadar Heffron

Sinn Fein now condemn these appalling acts yet they eulogise Warrenpoint and the blowing up of RUC officers in their cars

Yet there is zero difference

Did you yourself support the murder of Ronan Kerr and the blowing up of Peadar Heffron?

From your post and the tone of its rhetoric, one would have to assume you did support those crimes

Did you?


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

This is true.

Derry won the All Ireland in 1993.  As thousands of supporters made their way home late on the Sunday night from Dublin, they happened upon a traffic jam in the middle of Cookstown.

A British Army checkpoint had backed the cars up the whole way along the (very long) main street.  This was targeted harassment on it's own but the kicker is that this traffic jam conveniently allowed mobs of drunken Loyalists to stone the supporter's cars, loaded with families - jubilant men, women and children.

The Army continued to stop the cars and left the people in the firing line.  They pretended not to notice the Loyalists.

Things like this cause things like Canary Wharf.

Reminder to Sid - this was 1993.

Edit:  You would not have heard mention of this on RTE that night.  Hypothetically, had Kerry supporters been stoned by angry Dublin fans at Newlands Cross, it would have been plastered all over your news.
I got stopped by the Brits coming out of Clones when Dublin played Derry in 2003, just over the border on the Cavan road, about a mile from the Diamond

Big guns hanging around their necks

By this rationale I could then justify a future 28 year bombing, shooting and maiming campaign from 2003 on

We can all play that game

Given the quoted passage here relates to something that happened in September 1993, it would appear to imply regret that the first ceasefire happened less than a year later

Because if its a justification for why the 28 year PIRA campaign happened, it's also a justification for continuing it

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 14, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

One of the best posts I've ever read here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Dont give up the day job Tiempo ;D.
Can't see a majority in the 26 voting to "reunify" with the Angelos, Snapchaps and others of similar abusive mindsets.
Hard to see them convincing many of the 20% "others" in the 6 Cos either.
Marylou will have to tell a lot of her crew to stay at home and stay quiet for a year before any referendum.

Meanwhile

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40190259.html

Erstwhile, a dip into the bin of Sammy Wilson quotes

"The GAA is the sporting wing of the IRA"
"I don't care if [gays] are ratepayers. As far as I am concerned they are perverts"
"Taigs don't pay rates"
"They [Sinn Féin voters in the Oldpark area of Belfast] are sub-human animals"

But in the shires of Roscommon you denounce FF/FG entering government with SF, but in the 6co's you expect SF to enter power-sharing coalition with the DUP.

Sorry what was your point again?
So Sammy Wilson talking shite is a justification for 28 years of murder?

The Sinn Feiners on this board talk the exact same sort of moronic, rabble rousing shite as Sammy Wilson does

Two sides of the same coin and they totally refuse to see it

Sunken costs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 14, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

One of the best posts I've ever read here.

Another circle jerker  ;D

Children's playground stuff, the Sinn Fein way - and this from the same guy who was defending the caging of children in the US by the fascist Trump regime, laughing at it

Red Hand 88 didn't lick it up off the ground, he was taught from an early age that blowing up children was just fine



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2020, 01:11:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 14, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

One of the best posts I've ever read here.

you need to get out more
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 01:18:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
But it's not a lie - you just brand it a lie because you don't like the truth, because the truth offends you

The IRA killed 644 civilians

They killed more Catholics than any other single entity in the Troubles did

Civilian slaughter was an integral part of their campaign
Except I wasn't lying. They killed 644 civilians. That doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of their attacks were directed, as I already said, at British security force personnel/infrastructure and on commercial targets with no loss of life. The Old IRA killed a higher proportion of civilians than the Provos, yet you are the one making excuses for this ("oh but that was as short conflict")


Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
Your justification for this civilian slaughter is the same sort of justification as the US used for the slaughter of civilians in Iraq
Can you quote where i justified killing civilians? Good man, I await with interest.


Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
The argument that the PIRA campaign brought peace and civil rights is complete balderdash - they only brought decades of immeasurable grief and pain

The PIRA campaign held back civil rights in Northern Ireland for decades, it killed any sort of hope of a normal politics
I've already outlined the Major Government's approach to talks, and the consequences of it. maybe you can explain to me how we'd have gotten to where we are today without an armed campaign up until that point?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
What your post is is a sob story from a supporter of civilian murder - you - to justify that civilian murder

You're from alone on this forum in doing that
Again, front up and post where I said it was OK to murder civilians. If straw man nonsense is all you have, then kindly f**k away off and 'debate' elsewhere. I don't accuse you of supporting murder of civilians, despite the fact that you have repeatedly made excuses for the savage nature of the Old IRA campaign which resulted in the deaths of huge numbers of civilians.


Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
Ironically, the Loyalist butchers who went around slaughtering young Catholic girls in mobile shops and lads walking home from pubs would offer the exact same justification as you do for civilian slaughter - it was "necessary"

But it wasn't necessary, it was totally futile
And here we go again. I didn't say murdering civilians was necessary. Post the quote where I said it was.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
You can't face up to the truth because to do that would be too tough mentally, so you decide to carry on fooling yourself that blowing up Marie Wilson, shooting Joanne Mathers and blowing up Jonathan Ball was justified.
Where did I say those deaths were justified? You refuse to condemn the Old IRA campaign. If I was to engage in straw man arguments, then I'd argue that that must mean you believe the Old IRA murder of Ellen Morris, a 54 year old mother of 15, shot dead in her own kitchen, was "necessary" or "justified".

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
Then, predictably, you get the right wing nationalist circle jerkers who are trapped in the same circle of utter denial gathering round to offer moral support for your denial, like it's a children's playground - this is genuinely the way Sinn Feiners on this board approach "debate" - children's playground backslapping and cheering for anybody who issues justifications for a nearly three decades long campaign of insanity
So if posters post comments in agreement with my original reply, it was clearly orchestrated by me? Away and cop yourself on. If you want to debate with me, then debate what I've said, not what you think I've said, or what other people have said in response to me.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
You didn't address the hypocrisy about the murder of Ronan Kerr and the attempted murder of Peadar Heffron
If you are too f*king thick to understand that the RUC had been disbanded, and a peace process not only possible, but bedded in place, when those murders happened, then I can't help you. Like I asked above, maybe you'd be so kind as to tell us how the RUC might have been disbanded, British troops gone, and peace and equality in place, were it not for the IRA campaign. And that's a serious question. Outline precisely how that might have been achieved for us all.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
Did you yourself support the murder of Ronan Kerr and the blowing up of Peadar Heffron?
No more than you did. I lived through the troubles with a family. I only believed conflict was justified when there was no alternative. Those attacks were by a group that disagrees fundamentally with that analysis. You might argue that there was an alternative from "sometime in the seventies". For a third time, I'll challenge you to spell it out step-by-step.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
From your post and the tone of its rhetoric, one would have to assume you did support those crimes.
F**k off you warped little Free State p***k.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Dont give up the day job Tiempo ;D.
Can't see a majority in the 26 voting to "reunify" with the Angelos, Snapchaps and others of similar abusive mindsets.
Hard to see them convincing many of the 20% "others" in the 6 Cos either.
Marylou will have to tell a lot of her crew to stay at home and stay quiet for a year before any referendum.

Meanwhile

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40190259.html

Erstwhile, a dip into the bin of Sammy Wilson quotes

"The GAA is the sporting wing of the IRA"
"I don't care if [gays] are ratepayers. As far as I am concerned they are perverts"
"Taigs don't pay rates"
"They [Sinn Féin voters in the Oldpark area of Belfast] are sub-human animals"

But in the shires of Roscommon you denounce FF/FG entering government with SF, but in the 6co's you expect SF to enter power-sharing coalition with the DUP.

Sorry what was your point again?
What's the "shires of Roscommon"?
There are a lot of Shines down the South end.
Don't thinking any are involved in politics though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 01:26:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:04:42 PM
I got stopped by the Brits coming out of Clones when Dublin played Derry in 2003, just over the border on the Cavan road, about a mile from the Diamond

Big guns hanging around their necks

By this rationale I could then justify a future 28 year bombing, shooting and maiming campaign from 2003 on


Seán Farmer and Colm McCartney were also stopped after a match once. Coming home from Croke Park en route to Derry, when they were pulled over, dragged out of their cars and shot dead. But sure stop the press. Sid was stopped by the British Army. Once. Five years after the peace process. And he also grew up learning about the conflict by listening to a state censored media, which by the state's own admission, was aimed at stifling republican perspectives/view/opinions/analsyis from being heard. He's clearly qualified to talk about what the conflict was actually like far, far more than any of us, or the Farmer/McCartney families  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 01:46:09 PM
I think the real question is why did Sid support murdering civilians back in 1920?

Most of us have gone on record that murdering civilians is wrong but Sid is the only one who actually tried to legitimise it. Bizarre how someone who legitimises the murder of civilians actually tries to then take the moral high ground.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Dont give up the day job Tiempo ;D.
Can't see a majority in the 26 voting to "reunify" with the Angelos, Snapchaps and others of similar abusive mindsets.
Hard to see them convincing many of the 20% "others" in the 6 Cos either.
Marylou will have to tell a lot of her crew to stay at home and stay quiet for a year before any referendum.

Meanwhile

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40190259.html

Erstwhile, a dip into the bin of Sammy Wilson quotes

"The GAA is the sporting wing of the IRA"
"I don't care if [gays] are ratepayers. As far as I am concerned they are perverts"
"Taigs don't pay rates"
"They [Sinn Féin voters in the Oldpark area of Belfast] are sub-human animals"

But in the shires of Roscommon you denounce FF/FG entering government with SF, but in the 6co's you expect SF to enter power-sharing coalition with the DUP.

Sorry what was your point again?
What's the "shires of Roscommon"?
There are a lot of Shines down the South end.
Don't thinking any are involved in politics though.

As I already told you, a demilitrized zone for quislings.

Hertfordshire would suit you down to the ground.

As I suspected, you didn't have a point.

All the best.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 01:52:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Dont give up the day job Tiempo ;D.
Can't see a majority in the 26 voting to "reunify" with the Angelos, Snapchaps and others of similar abusive mindsets.
Hard to see them convincing many of the 20% "others" in the 6 Cos either.
Marylou will have to tell a lot of her crew to stay at home and stay quiet for a year before any referendum.

Meanwhile

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40190259.html

Erstwhile, a dip into the bin of Sammy Wilson quotes

"The GAA is the sporting wing of the IRA"
"I don't care if [gays] are ratepayers. As far as I am concerned they are perverts"
"Taigs don't pay rates"
"They [Sinn Féin voters in the Oldpark area of Belfast] are sub-human animals"

But in the shires of Roscommon you denounce FF/FG entering government with SF, but in the 6co's you expect SF to enter power-sharing coalition with the DUP.

Sorry what was your point again?
So Sammy Wilson talking shite is a justification for 28 years of murder?

The Sinn Feiners on this board talk the exact same sort of moronic, rabble rousing shite as Sammy Wilson does

Two sides of the same coin and they totally refuse to see it

Sunken costs

That wasn't so much an extrapolation as a quantum leap.

Two sides of the same coin, yes, oppressor and oppressed.

It's a funny old game you quislings play.

Sort of like a special powers act for trolls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2020, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

This is true.

Derry won the All Ireland in 1993.  As thousands of supporters made their way home late on the Sunday night from Dublin, they happened upon a traffic jam in the middle of Cookstown.

A British Army checkpoint had backed the cars up the whole way along the (very long) main street.  This was targeted harassment on it's own but the kicker is that this traffic jam conveniently allowed mobs of drunken Loyalists to stone the supporter's cars, loaded with families - jubilant men, women and children.

The Army continued to stop the cars and left the people in the firing line.  They pretended not to notice the Loyalists.

Things like this cause things like Canary Wharf.

Reminder to Sid - this was 1993.

Edit:  You would not have heard mention of this on RTE that night.  Hypothetically, had Kerry supporters been stoned by angry Dublin fans at Newlands Cross, it would have been plastered all over your news.
I got stopped by the Brits coming out of Clones when Dublin played Derry in 2003, just over the border on the Cavan road, about a mile from the Diamond

Big guns hanging around their necks

By this rationale I could then justify a future 28 year bombing, shooting and maiming campaign from 2003 on

We can all play that game

Given the quoted passage here relates to something that happened in September 1993, it would appear to imply regret that the first ceasefire happened less than a year later

Because if its a justification for why the 28 year PIRA campaign happened, it's also a justification for continuing it

I presented the story as it showed (in one small way) why the IRA were still active into the nineties, when you reckoned there was no justification for their existence after "some point in the seventies".

I was in one of those cars with my aunt that night.  A more pacifist woman you could not meet.  She idolised John Hume.  Her response sticks in my mind because it was so unbelievably out of character for her - "Is it any wonder they shoot those bastards".

It's the same reason that BLM and Antifa movements in America exist.  It wasn't that these people just developed a sudden bloodlust (or a penchant for riotous behaviour in the case of BLM/Antifa).  It was a direct response to the circumstances of the time.  IMO this response was absolutely inevitable.

The rest of what you've said is so far into the realms of straw man stuff that it doesn't warrant replying to.  When this is the line you are forced to go down it only demonstrates the weakness of your argument.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

This is true.

Derry won the All Ireland in 1993.  As thousands of supporters made their way home late on the Sunday night from Dublin, they happened upon a traffic jam in the middle of Cookstown.

A British Army checkpoint had backed the cars up the whole way along the (very long) main street.  This was targeted harassment on it's own but the kicker is that this traffic jam conveniently allowed mobs of drunken Loyalists to stone the supporter's cars, loaded with families - jubilant men, women and children.

The Army continued to stop the cars and left the people in the firing line.  They pretended not to notice the Loyalists.

Things like this cause things like Canary Wharf.

Reminder to Sid - this was 1993.

Edit:  You would not have heard mention of this on RTE that night.  Hypothetically, had Kerry supporters been stoned by angry Dublin fans at Newlands Cross, it would have been plastered all over your news.
I got stopped by the Brits coming out of Clones when Dublin played Derry in 2003, just over the border on the Cavan road, about a mile from the Diamond

Big guns hanging around their necks

By this rationale I could then justify a future 28 year bombing, shooting and maiming campaign from 2003 on

We can all play that game

Given the quoted passage here relates to something that happened in September 1993, it would appear to imply regret that the first ceasefire happened less than a year later

Because if its a justification for why the 28 year PIRA campaign happened, it's also a justification for continuing it

I presented the story as it showed (in one small way) why the IRA were still active into the nineties, when you reckoned there was no justification for their existence after "some point in the seventies".

I was in one of those cars with my aunt that night.  A more pacifist woman you could not meet.  She idolised John Hume.  Her response sticks in my mind because it was so unbelievably out of character for her - "Is it any wonder they shoot those bastards".

It's the same reason that BLM and Antifa movements in America exist.  It wasn't that these people just developed a sudden bloodlust (or a penchant for riotous behaviour in the case of BLM/Antifa).  It was a direct response to the circumstances of the time.  IMO this response was absolutely inevitable.

The rest of what you've said is so far into the realms of straw man stuff that it doesn't warrant replying to.  When this is the line you are forced to go down it only demonstrates the weakness of your argument.
The response from 1969 on was inevitable

Of course it was inevitable

But that doesn't mean a campaign of murder which stretched all the way up to 1997 was right, does it?

You talk about straw men, yet you create straw men yourself

Unlike others on this board, my position is nuanced

I understand the reasons why the PIRA happened and why there was violence

I believe you can make a very plausible moral case for a proportionate armed resistance from 1969 to some point in the early 1970s, as a strategy it was deeply flawed but in moral terms the case was probably there, the moral case was to defend your community

There is currently a similar moral case for a proportionate armed resistance by black communities in America

But what you cannot do is make a plausible moral case for a sustained campaign of murder which continued all the way up to 1997

Nobody has ever done it, and nobody ever will

And if one attempts to, well, then they're making the moral case for the murder of Ronan Kerr, Lyra McKee and the attempted murder of Peadar Heffron - because these were the same exact same sort of things which were justified up to 1997

This campaign of violence devastated Northern Ireland, and ruined many lives outside Northern Ireland

And at the end of it, it produced nothing

Any advances came from peaceful means and NI could have been a hell of lot further down the road of a peaceful society than it is now without that campaign of murder

The story you tell of intimidation by the Brits in 1993, and of which there are probably millions of such small stories over the years, is presented as a rationalisation for continuing the PIRA's campaign up to 1994 and then 1997

Yet the first ceasefire happened less than a year later, in 1994

But if these sorts of stories are to be offered as a rationalisation for the campaign of murder up to 1994 and then 1997, you could offer up the same justifications for continuing the campaign of violence beyond 1997, you could attempt to rationalise why it should continue up to the present day, 2020

And these rationalisations or justifications would be wrong

It would have been better had it stopped in 1974 rather than 1994, or 1997

It would have been better had it stopped in 1972, or indeed 1969

As it was, we just got an extra quarter century of a mass murder spree - for nothing














Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It would have been better had it stopped in 1974 rather than 1994, or 1997

It would have been better had it stopped in 1972, or indeed 1969

As it was, we just got an extra quarter century of a mass murder spree - for nothing

There's you argument boiled right down. Are you seriously arguing that the north was as easy for nationalists to live in now than it was in 1972?

Or is it that you believe the end of the RUC, British soldiers off the street, religious equality, end of unionist misrule, were all achievable in 1972 by peaceful means?

If it's the former, you're more deluded that even I ive you credit for. If it's the latter, well, once again I'll challenge you to explain how all that could have been achieved peacefully so quickly without the use of armed force?

One last question, Sid. Do you condemn the Old IRA and their campaign, given that it resulted in a higher proportion of civilians than the PIRA campaign?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 01:52:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Dont give up the day job Tiempo ;D.
Can't see a majority in the 26 voting to "reunify" with the Angelos, Snapchaps and others of similar abusive mindsets.
Hard to see them convincing many of the 20% "others" in the 6 Cos either.
Marylou will have to tell a lot of her crew to stay at home and stay quiet for a year before any referendum.

Meanwhile

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40190259.html

Erstwhile, a dip into the bin of Sammy Wilson quotes

"The GAA is the sporting wing of the IRA"
"I don't care if [gays] are ratepayers. As far as I am concerned they are perverts"
"Taigs don't pay rates"
"They [Sinn Féin voters in the Oldpark area of Belfast] are sub-human animals"

But in the shires of Roscommon you denounce FF/FG entering government with SF, but in the 6co's you expect SF to enter power-sharing coalition with the DUP.

Sorry what was your point again?
So Sammy Wilson talking shite is a justification for 28 years of murder?

The Sinn Feiners on this board talk the exact same sort of moronic, rabble rousing shite as Sammy Wilson does

Two sides of the same coin and they totally refuse to see it

Sunken costs

That wasn't so much an extrapolation as a quantum leap.

Two sides of the same coin, yes, oppressor and oppressed.

It's a funny old game you quislings play.

Sort of like a special powers act for trolls.
But apparently being murdered by the IRA does not count as oppression

The IRA became just as much an oppressor as those they said were oppressors

"Quislings" is another beauty of a ad hominem

Again SF supporters show they are unable to debate and are only capable of flinging insults around

Insults are not debate, they only show up the weakness of your position

SF are entitled to enter government if they get enough votes or can do a coalition deal - it's a democratic system

But I don't believe they are a fit party to be in government and the behaviour both of their TDs and of their supporters on this forum and elsewhere on the internet continually reinforces this case
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It would have been better had it stopped in 1974 rather than 1994, or 1997

It would have been better had it stopped in 1972, or indeed 1969

As it was, we just got an extra quarter century of a mass murder spree - for nothing

There's you argument boiled right down. Are you seriously arguing that the north was as easy for nationalists to live in now than it was in 1972?

Or is it that you believe the end of the RUC, British soldiers off the street, religious equality, end of unionist misrule, were all achievable in 1972 by peaceful means?

If it's the former, you're more deluded that even I ive you credit for. If it's the latter, well, once again I'll challenge you to explain how all that could have been achieved peacefully so quickly without the use of armed force?

One last question, Sid. Do you condemn the Old IRA and their campaign, given that it resulted in a higher proportion of civilians than the PIRA campaign?
They were achievable, you do it by mass peaceful political mobilisation and a massive, sustained campaign of civil disobedience and protest, you do it by drawing attention to your cause internationally

The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation

The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation

A united Ireland did not happen by murdering people, it will happen by democratic vote

But the PIRA didn't fight for these things, they fought for "Brits out of Ireland" - something they never had a remote chance
of achieving - and they failed

I do not class the old IRA as heroes at all - and I would class the likes of Dan Breen as extreme far right psychopaths - however the old IRA had at least some democratic legitimacy, they had widespread support which the PIRA did not have, and they knew when to stop

But their campaign of violence too was at best morally questionable and they committed many appalling acts

The question you have to answer is if you support the current dissidents and if not, why not - because they do they exact same things the PIRA did, they have the exact same aims and the exact same methods

The deluded hypocrisy Sinn Feiners have as regards their views on the dissos is staggering



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
By Sid's logic Mandela was a bloodthirsty psychopath because his terrorist grouping waged a 30 year violent campaign that cost hundreds of civilian lives.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
By Sid's logic Mandela was a bloodthirsty psychopath because his terrorist grouping waged a 30 year violent campaign that cost hundreds of civilian lives.
But the ANC did not mount a sustained 28 year campaign of murder like the IRA, there were occasional isolated events

The ANC won by peaceful means, they had mass support, they continually mobilised mass peaceful resistance and continually drew international attention to their cause, and eventually apartheid collapsed because of its inherent absurdity

Also the apartheid system was a much more evil foe than that faced by Catholic civilians in Northern Ireland in 1968, awful as it was

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 03:14:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
By Sid's logic Mandela was a bloodthirsty psychopath because his terrorist grouping waged a 30 year violent campaign that cost hundreds of civilian lives.
But the ANC did not mount a sustained 28 year campaign of murder like the IRA, there were occasional isolated events

The ANC won by peaceful means, they had mass support, they continually mobilised mass peaceful resistance and continually drew international attention to their cause, and eventually apartheid collapsed because of its inherent absurdity

Also the apartheid system was a much more evil foe than that faced by Catholic civilians in Northern Ireland in 1968, awful as it was

I'm just applying your logic and you're now performing mental gymnastics.

What is more is that the ANC and the Provos were very supportive of each other's campaigns .

You're going to have a tough job trying to have any semblance of credibility when you are contradicting yourself at every turn.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:17:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It would have been better had it stopped in 1974 rather than 1994, or 1997

It would have been better had it stopped in 1972, or indeed 1969

As it was, we just got an extra quarter century of a mass murder spree - for nothing

There's you argument boiled right down. Are you seriously arguing that the north was as easy for nationalists to live in now than it was in 1972?

Or is it that you believe the end of the RUC, British soldiers off the street, religious equality, end of unionist misrule, were all achievable in 1972 by peaceful means?

If it's the former, you're more deluded that even I ive you credit for. If it's the latter, well, once again I'll challenge you to explain how all that could have been achieved peacefully so quickly without the use of armed force?

One last question, Sid. Do you condemn the Old IRA and their campaign, given that it resulted in a higher proportion of civilians than the PIRA campaign?
They were achievable, you do it by mass peaceful political mobilisation and a massive, sustained campaign of civil disobedience and protest, you do it by drawing attention to your cause internationally

The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation

The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation

A united Ireland did not happen by murdering people, it will happen by democratic vote

But the PIRA didn't fight for these things, they fought for "Brits out of Ireland" - something they never had a remote chance
of achieving - and they failed

I do not class the old IRA as heroes at all, however they had at least some democratic legitimacy, they had widespread support which the PIRA did not have, and they knew when to stop

The question you have to answer is if you support the current dissidents and if not, why not - because they do they exact same things the PIRA did, they have the exact same aims and the exact same methods

The deluded hypocrisy Sinn Feiners have as regards their views on the dissos is staggering

You're saying it was incumbent on the oppressed to mobalise peacefully in order to achieve a set of stated aims yet its clear the sectarian statelet had been systematically eradicating that population by force from its inception, and indeed before with the help of the British. So basically put yourself in the firing line as sitting ducks until what the Americans came to the rescue?

The only way to deliver peace and equality in any sort of sustained way prior to The Agreement relied on the Unionists and British rolling out equality in their administrative processes, and they refused to do that, had they listened to Terence O'Neill things might have been different, but the Unionists were set on having a brutish domineering anti-Catholic/Republican statelet, and well the Brits, it was basically shits and giggles for them, a territorial claim while the Empire crumbled, a testing ground for political gerrymandering and new forms of barbarism in an occupied land.

"It is frightfully hard to explain to Protestants that if you give Roman Catholics a good job and a good house they will live like Protestants because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Roman Catholic is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Roman Catholics with due consideration and kindness they will live like Protestants in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
They were achievable, you do it by mass peaceful political mobilisation and a massive, sustained campaign of civil disobedience and protest, you do it by drawing attention to your cause internationally
Remember what happened in Derry on Bloody Sunday? How many civil rights protesters had to die for you that day before you'd think maybe peaceful protest isn't enough here? 14 clearly wasn't enough.

And sure if civil disobedience was enough to drive the Brits out of the north, I assume you regard the Easter Rising and Tan Wars as morally repugnant too?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
It was also roundly rejected by the entirety of unionism. Was that the fault of the IRA too? Or should it have just pressed ahead regardless?  ::) When I asked for how what we have today could have been achieved peacefully, I was hoping you would try to come back with something better than this nonsense. Did the Anglo Irish Agreement advocate the disbandment of the RUC btw? In one memorable incident, the RUC actually moved one of their landrovers out of the way to facilitate a violent loyalist protest entering the Stomont Estate). Did the agreement allow for demilitarization? No. In reality, one of the trade-off's for allowing southern civil servants to have an advisory role, was increased British militarization of the border counties.
[/quote]

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
Just like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
But the PIRA didn't fight for these things, they fought for "Brits out of Ireland" - something they never had a remote chance
of achieving - and they failed
They also wound up their campaign when it became clear to both sides that neither could militarily succeed and when it became clear thatn the Brits were taking peace talks seriously. Remember what I told you about Canary Wharf?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
I do not class the old IRA as heroes at all, however they had at least some democratic legitimacy, they had widespread support which the PIRA did not have, and they knew when to stop
I did not ask if you viewed them as heroes. I asked if you condemned them and their campaign. I also asked the same about the 1916 Volunteers. What democratic mandate did they have? And here we go again about how "they knew when to stop". They disappeared 100-200 (mostly innocent) people in that short campaign. The Provos disappeared 14 in theirs. So how can only the Provos campaign be morally indefensible?


Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The question you have to answer is if you support the current dissidents and if not, why not - because they do they exact same things the PIRA did, they have the exact same aims and the exact same methods
The deluded hypocrisy Sinn Feiners have as regards their views on the dissos is staggering
Once again displaying a mindblowing level of ignorance.The dissidents are active in an era where there is no British army on the streets, no RUC, equality for Catholics, and when we are in the midst of a lengthy and successful peace process. Is that the environment you believe the IRA operated in? If you think it is, then you're just stupid. If you realise that it's not the same environment/circumstances, then you are basing your whole argument on what you then know to be a lie.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:20:32 PM
Question for Sinn Feiners: did you support the Omagh bomb?

Do you consider it murder?

If you didn't support it, why not?

Because it's the exact same thing the PIRA did for decades

By 1998 the RUC still existed, the British Army was still in Northern Ireland

All that had changed by August 1998 from say, May 1997, was that the leadership of Sinn Fein had effectively surrendered and given up on violence

But there were still people out there who hadn't

So if you're to say that Claudy or Bloody Friday or Enniskillen or Warrington were justified, why not Omagh?

Because the cause was the exact same as any of those
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:23:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
By Sid's logic Mandela was a bloodthirsty psychopath because his terrorist grouping waged a 30 year violent campaign that cost hundreds of civilian lives.
But the ANC did not mount a sustained 28 year campaign of murder like the IRA, there were occasional isolated events

The ANC won by peaceful means, they had mass support, they continually mobilised mass peaceful resistance and continually drew international attention to their cause, and eventually apartheid collapsed because of its inherent absurdity

Also the apartheid system was a much more evil foe than that faced by Catholic civilians in Northern Ireland in 1968, awful as it was

Aye the Belfast pogroms weren't that bad rite enuf ...the street was a mass of brain matter and blood... bit of a mad one to wrap the head around
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
They were achievable, you do it by mass peaceful political mobilisation and a massive, sustained campaign of civil disobedience and protest, you do it by drawing attention to your cause internationally
Remember what happened in Derry on Bloody Sunday? How many civil rights protesters had to die for you that day before you'd think maybe peaceful protest isn't enough here? 14 clearly wasn't enough.

And sure if civil disobedience was enough to drive the Brits out of the north, I assume you regard the Easter Rising and Tan Wars as morally repugnant too?
So a further 25 years of murder was the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday in Derry, was it?

Would a further 25 years of murder have been the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday in Croke Park?

Would a further 25 years of murder have been the best available response to the Shankill Road bomb?

You see you're trying to completely justify tit for tat murder here

You're trying to justify the red mist and loss of reason - you're saying that the red mist, loss of reason, and further quarter century of murder was the best answer to Bloody Sunday

And in that, you're unintentionally providing a justification for Bloody Sunday in Derry itself - a justification that no reasonable person could have any truck with whatsoever - because there was never and could never be a justification for Bloody Sunday

I don't think you learned the lessons of Bloody Sunday at all
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 03:33:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
They were achievable, you do it by mass peaceful political mobilisation and a massive, sustained campaign of civil disobedience and protest, you do it by drawing attention to your cause internationally
Remember what happened in Derry on Bloody Sunday? How many civil rights protesters had to die for you that day before you'd think maybe peaceful protest isn't enough here? 14 clearly wasn't enough.

And sure if civil disobedience was enough to drive the Brits out of the north, I assume you regard the Easter Rising and Tan Wars as morally repugnant too?
So a further 25 years of murder was the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday in Derry, was it?

Would a further 25 years of murder have been the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday in Croke Park?

Would a further 25 years of murder have been the best available response to the Shankill Road bomb?

You see you're trying to completely justify tit for tat murder here

You're trying to justify the red mist and loss of reason - you're saying that the red mist, loss of reason, and further quarter century of murder was the best answer to Bloody Sunday

And in that, you're unintentionally providing a justification for Bloody Sunday in Derry itself - a justification that no reasonable person could have any truck with whatsoever - because there was never and could never be a justification for Bloody Sunday

I don't think you learned the lessons of Bloody Sunday at all

You're the only one who was tried to justify the murder of civilians here, the only one.

You're a complete and utter hypocrite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:35:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
Quote
It was also roundly rejected by the entirety of unionism. Was that the fault of the IRA too? Or should it have just pressed ahead regardless?  ::) When I asked for how what we have today could have been achieved peacefully, I was hoping you would try to come back with something better than this nonsense. Did the Anglo Irish Agreement advocate the disbandment of the RUC btw? In one memorable incident, the RUC actually moved one of their landrovers out of the way to facilitate a violent loyalist protest entering the Stomont Estate). Did the agreement allow for demilitarization? No. In reality, one of the trade-off's for allowing southern civil servants to have an advisory role, was increased British militarization of the border counties.

And? Unionism lost as regards the Anglo-Irish Agreement

Democratic politics won

The IRA didn't achieve that and they didn't achieve the disbandment of the RUC, and they certainly hadn't achieved the disbandment of the RUC by 1985

They hadn't achieved it by 1997 when they gave up

Calling something you can't accept "nonsense" is just so much wore SF waffle



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:36:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
They were achievable, you do it by mass peaceful political mobilisation and a massive, sustained campaign of civil disobedience and protest, you do it by drawing attention to your cause internationally
Remember what happened in Derry on Bloody Sunday? How many civil rights protesters had to die for you that day before you'd think maybe peaceful protest isn't enough here? 14 clearly wasn't enough.

And sure if civil disobedience was enough to drive the Brits out of the north, I assume you regard the Easter Rising and Tan Wars as morally repugnant too?
So a further 25 years of murder was the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday in Derry, was it?

Would a further 25 years of murder have been the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday in Croke Park?

Would a further 25 years of murder have been the best available response to the Shankill Road bomb?

You see you're trying to completely justify tit for tat murder here

You're trying to justify the red mist and loss of reason - you're saying that the red mist, loss of reason, and further quarter century of murder was the best answer to Bloody Sunday

And in that, you're unintentionally providing a justification for Bloody Sunday in Derry itself - a justification that no reasonable person could have any truck with whatsoever - because there was never and could never be a justification for Bloody Sunday

I don't think you learned the lessons of Bloody Sunday at all

The only lessons to be learned from Bloody Sunday were on the British side, as perpetrators, unless the victims were in some way to blame?

You really believe in the peaceful mobilisation mantra don't you, best the Catholic/nationalist population served itself up as sitting ducks than defend itself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 03:50:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

You're talking about the difference between fiction and reality.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
But the PIRA didn't fight for these things, they fought for "Brits out of Ireland" - something they never had a remote chance
of achieving - and they failed
Quote
They also wound up their campaign when it became clear to both sides that neither could militarily succeed and when it became clear thatn the Brits were taking peace talks seriously. Remember what I told you about Canary Wharf?
It was clear from the get go that the PIRA could not militarily succeed

It was even clearer by 1972 they could not succeed

It was clearer again by 1978 they could not militarily succeed

And so on, and so on

And they continued all the way to 1997

Talk about being slow learners



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:54:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Riddle me this... Catholics put themselves up front and centre as sitting ducks

Who from the international community comes to the rescue, and in what era and in what guise?

Seeing as you've leapt headlong into the realm of fantasy bordering on an episode of Quantum Leap you might as well finish the story off in your own inimitable style...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 03:55:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

The RUC weren't disbanded by peaceful protest, you clown. They were disbanded as part of the GFA. An agreement which only came about because the British were dragged kicking and screaming by the IRA to the negotiating table.

And you keep perpetuating this "peaceful protest" crap. Again, were the bodies of 14 peaceful protesters in Derry not enough for you? With the eyes of the world on Britain after how it treated civil rights protestors, did it buckle under the pressure of the international community and bring in sweeping reforms? Did it f**k. But sure just you keep believing that they'd have done so if the taigs keep asking nicely enough, often enough  ::)

And once again, could peaceful protest not have happened in 1916 or 1919, instead of armed republican aggression? If not, why not?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:20:32 PM
By 1998 the RUC still existed, the British Army was still in Northern Ireland

All that had changed by August 1998 from say, May 1997, was that the leadership of Sinn Fein had effectively surrendered and given up on violence

But there were still people out there who hadn't

So if you're to say that Claudy or Bloody Friday or Enniskillen or Warrington were justified, why not Omagh?

Because the cause was the exact same as any of those

The GFA Agreement was signed in April 1998. Four months before the Omagh Bombing. When the Omaagh Bombing happened, the imminent disbandment of the RUC, and the removal of the British Army were legally set in stone. If you can tell me that that was the case during the PIRA campaign, then you're a whole good one. If you can't, then you're a clueless Free Stater.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
I do not class the old IRA as heroes at all, however they had at least some democratic legitimacy, they had widespread support which the PIRA did not have, and they knew when to stop
Quote
I did not ask if you viewed them as heroes. I asked if you condemned them and their campaign. I also asked the same about the 1916 Volunteers. What democratic mandate did they have? And here we go again about how "they knew when to stop". They disappeared 100-200 (mostly innocent) people in that short campaign. The Provos disappeared 14 in theirs. So how can only the Provos campaign be morally indefensible?
My attitude towards the Rising is one of shades of grey

I sympathise with the Connolly view, the internationalist view, the one of fighting for the worker regardless of their background, the view that World War I was an imperial evil, and the system which perpetuated that needed to be overthrown

That the flag under which you live is essentially meaningless - that nationalism is irrelevant - that the fairness of the society you live in is what matters

Connolly believed that the only way that could achieved was separation from the British Empire

I do not sympathise with the Pearse view at all - Pearse was a nationalist psychopath who wanted a pure Gaelic Ireland and believed that blood sacrifice was glorious

In the Rising, people were murdered on the streets by the rebels and that was very wrong

The Rising had no democratic legitimacy

But the Rising lasted less than a week

The IRA campaign lasted 28 years

The War Of Independence was what it was

But again, it contained terrible events which absolutely are condemnable - Soloheadbeg which started the war was murder pure and simple - even Seamus Robinson who commanded the operation admitted this - the other went rogue

The difference was it had the support of the people - Sinn Fein had 73 MPs - and it always had a likelihood of success

That was never, ever the case with the PIRA campaign - it never, ever had a chance of success

A valid comparison would be if this war had continued until 1947 with zero chance of success - because that's what the PIRA did

The moral cases around the Rising and the War of Independence are grey - the moral case around the 28 year PIRA campaign is not

It was a totally futile campaign of wanton murder and societal devastation which was an utter abomination






Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 14, 2020, 04:29:53 PM
You're big on 'democratic legitimacy'. Where was the democratic legitimacy for the British presence in Ireland. The Irish people were never consulted on that. They were never consulted on the Act of Union in 1801, it was an imposition. You really are full of shit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:30:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The question you have to answer is if you support the current dissidents and if not, why not - because they do they exact same things the PIRA did, they have the exact same aims and the exact same methods
The deluded hypocrisy Sinn Feiners have as regards their views on the dissos is staggering
Quote
Once again displaying a mindblowing level of ignorance.The dissidents are active in an era where there is no British army on the streets, no RUC, equality for Catholics, and when we are in the midst of a lengthy and successful peace process. Is that the environment you believe the IRA operated in? If you think it is, then you're just stupid. If you realise that it's not the same environment/circumstances, then you are basing your whole argument on what you then know to be a lie.
The PIRA campaign of murder was not for civil rights or fair treatment

The PIRA campaign of murder was to get the Brits out of Ireland

Brits out of Ireland was not about the British Army or the RUC - the British Army were not in NI until 1969 - it referred to British rule, ie. Northern Ireland being part of the United Kingdom

The PIRA campaign was for a united Ireland

There is no united Ireland, Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom in 2020

Therefore the exact same justification given for the PIRA campaign 1969-1997 still exists, and the dissos can reasonably claim that same justification

And any Sinn Fein condemnation of the dissos is total hypocrisy

There is a retrospective revisionism about what the aims of the PIRA campaign were

They did not achieve their aim - they had one aim and they didn't get it, or come close to it - they gave up knowing they couldn't achieve that aim, but they cannot admit they lost and that the murder and violence was futile, and so now Sinn Fein has to lie through its teeth about what the aims of that failed, devastating campaign were

A bit like how the Brexiteers continually move the goalposts around what it was they wanted when they don't get what they want - but at least the Brexiteers don't murder people, crazy though they are



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:33:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:30:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The question you have to answer is if you support the current dissidents and if not, why not - because they do they exact same things the PIRA did, they have the exact same aims and the exact same methods
The deluded hypocrisy Sinn Feiners have as regards their views on the dissos is staggering
Quote
Once again displaying a mindblowing level of ignorance.The dissidents are active in an era where there is no British army on the streets, no RUC, equality for Catholics, and when we are in the midst of a lengthy and successful peace process. Is that the environment you believe the IRA operated in? If you think it is, then you're just stupid. If you realise that it's not the same environment/circumstances, then you are basing your whole argument on what you then know to be a lie.
The PIRA campaign of murder was not for civil rights or fair treatment

The PIRA campaign of murder was to get the Brits out of Ireland



There would never be civil right or fair treatment if Catholics sat on their hands.

That's the bit idiotic free staters like you can never grasp.

What happened on Bloody Sunday told us all that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:34:38 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:17:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It would have been better had it stopped in 1974 rather than 1994, or 1997

It would have been better had it stopped in 1972, or indeed 1969

As it was, we just got an extra quarter century of a mass murder spree - for nothing

There's you argument boiled right down. Are you seriously arguing that the north was as easy for nationalists to live in now than it was in 1972?

Or is it that you believe the end of the RUC, British soldiers off the street, religious equality, end of unionist misrule, were all achievable in 1972 by peaceful means?

If it's the former, you're more deluded that even I ive you credit for. If it's the latter, well, once again I'll challenge you to explain how all that could have been achieved peacefully so quickly without the use of armed force?

One last question, Sid. Do you condemn the Old IRA and their campaign, given that it resulted in a higher proportion of civilians than the PIRA campaign?
They were achievable, you do it by mass peaceful political mobilisation and a massive, sustained campaign of civil disobedience and protest, you do it by drawing attention to your cause internationally

The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation

The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation

A united Ireland did not happen by murdering people, it will happen by democratic vote

But the PIRA didn't fight for these things, they fought for "Brits out of Ireland" - something they never had a remote chance
of achieving - and they failed

I do not class the old IRA as heroes at all, however they had at least some democratic legitimacy, they had widespread support which the PIRA did not have, and they knew when to stop

The question you have to answer is if you support the current dissidents and if not, why not - because they do they exact same things the PIRA did, they have the exact same aims and the exact same methods

The deluded hypocrisy Sinn Feiners have as regards their views on the dissos is staggering

You're saying it was incumbent on the oppressed to mobalise peacefully in order to achieve a set of stated aims yet its clear the sectarian statelet had been systematically eradicating that population by force from its inception, and indeed before with the help of the British. So basically put yourself in the firing line as sitting ducks until what the Americans came to the rescue?

The only way to deliver peace and equality in any sort of sustained way prior to The Agreement relied on the Unionists and British rolling out equality in their administrative processes, and they refused to do that, had they listened to Terence O'Neill things might have been different, but the Unionists were set on having a brutish domineering anti-Catholic/Republican statelet, and well the Brits, it was basically shits and giggles for them, a territorial claim while the Empire crumbled, a testing ground for political gerrymandering and new forms of barbarism in an occupied land.

"It is frightfully hard to explain to Protestants that if you give Roman Catholics a good job and a good house they will live like Protestants because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Roman Catholic is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Roman Catholics with due consideration and kindness they will live like Protestants in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church"

They were not systematically eradicating the Catholic population

They were systematically discriminating against the Catholic population

There is a big, big difference

Treatment of Catholics in NI was bad enough without resorting to fake history

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:33:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:30:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The question you have to answer is if you support the current dissidents and if not, why not - because they do they exact same things the PIRA did, they have the exact same aims and the exact same methods
The deluded hypocrisy Sinn Feiners have as regards their views on the dissos is staggering
Quote
Once again displaying a mindblowing level of ignorance.The dissidents are active in an era where there is no British army on the streets, no RUC, equality for Catholics, and when we are in the midst of a lengthy and successful peace process. Is that the environment you believe the IRA operated in? If you think it is, then you're just stupid. If you realise that it's not the same environment/circumstances, then you are basing your whole argument on what you then know to be a lie.
The PIRA campaign of murder was not for civil rights or fair treatment

The PIRA campaign of murder was to get the Brits out of Ireland



There would never be civil right or fair treatment if Catholics sat on their hands.

That's the bit idiotic free staters like you can never grasp.

What happened on Bloody Sunday told us all that.
The PIRA provided civil rights and fair treatment for precisely nobody

It certainly took them away from a lot of people though
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 04:36:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
My attitude towards the Rising is one of shades of grey...

I sympathise with the Connolly view, the internationalist view, the one of fighting for the worker regardless of their background, the view that World War I was an imperial evil, and the system which perpetuated that needed to be overthrown

That the flag under which you live is essentially meaningless - that nationalism is irrelevant - that the fairness of the society you live in is what matters

Connolly believed that the only way that could achieved was separation from the British Empire

I do not sympathise with the Pearse view at all - Pearse was a nationalist psychopath who wanted a pure Gaelic Ireland and believed that blood sacrifice was glorious

In the Rising, people were murdered on the streets by the rebels and that was very wrong

The Rising had no democratic legitimacy

But the Rising lasted less than a week

The IRA campaign lasted 28 years
So your views on the Rising are "shades of grey" because it's not cool to kill civilians, but it's not that bad if you only do it for a week or so? And not bad too if you quite like one of the ringleaders? How can you not see your own hypocrisy here? It's actually astonishing!

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
The War Of Independence was what it was
That's just a nothing statement.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
But again, it contained terrible events which absolutely are condemnable - Soloheadbeg which started the war was murder pure and simple - even Seamus Robinson who commanded the operation admitted this - the other went rogue
No s**t. Has there ever been an armed campaign by any armed group, anywhere, ever, that didn't include actions that were unjustifiable?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
The difference was it had the support of the people - Sinn Fein had 73 MPs - and it always had a likelihood of success
That was never, ever the case with the PIRA campaign - it never, ever had a chance of success
Except for the small fact that The Tan War began without any democratic mandate. War was not mentioned in the SF manifesto.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
A valid comparison would be if this war had continued until 1947 with zero chance of success - because that's what the PIRA did
Except that the conditions for Catholics today are infinitely better that they were before the IRA forced Britain to talk in the 1990's. Remember I asked you what sweeping concessions Britain made after the international condemnation that followed from Bloody Sunday? Remember how the answer was: none? Remember how I asked you how you then calculate that they would have just bowed to peaceful pressure from a minority community in the six counties? You haven't gotten back to me on that little head scratcher yet.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
The moral cases around the Rising and the War of Independence are grey - the moral case around the 28 year PIRA campaign is not
It was a totally futile campaign of wanton murder and societal devastation which was an utter abomination
Yes, the IRA devastated what was a utopian six county statelet. You really are as deluded as a Free Stater can get about the six counties, and that really is saying something. Did the Easter Rising devastate the centre of Dublin? Was it still kinda ok though, because it took them less than a week to devastate it? Was the disappearing of 100-200 (mostly innocent) people a "grey area" in morality because they packed all that savagery into a short burst of killing?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:42:13 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:23:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
By Sid's logic Mandela was a bloodthirsty psychopath because his terrorist grouping waged a 30 year violent campaign that cost hundreds of civilian lives.
But the ANC did not mount a sustained 28 year campaign of murder like the IRA, there were occasional isolated events

The ANC won by peaceful means, they had mass support, they continually mobilised mass peaceful resistance and continually drew international attention to their cause, and eventually apartheid collapsed because of its inherent absurdity

Also the apartheid system was a much more evil foe than that faced by Catholic civilians in Northern Ireland in 1968, awful as it was

Aye the Belfast pogroms weren't that bad rite enuf ...the street was a mass of brain matter and blood... bit of a mad one to wrap the head around
The apartheid system was a much more evil foe than the NI system

That isn't to say that the NI system wasn't terrible because it obviously was

But proper historical context is important and Irish nationalists tend not to understand that, or deliberately dismiss it - the title of "most oppressed people ever" is important to them

Maintaining that Irish Catholics were as oppressed as the blacks in South Africa or chattel slaves in America or indeed the Jews in Nazi Germany is unfortunately a commonly enough expressed point of view in these sorts of discussions and it displays a profoundly ignorant reading of history, again it's fake history
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 04:45:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:34:38 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:17:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It would have been better had it stopped in 1974 rather than 1994, or 1997

It would have been better had it stopped in 1972, or indeed 1969

As it was, we just got an extra quarter century of a mass murder spree - for nothing

There's you argument boiled right down. Are you seriously arguing that the north was as easy for nationalists to live in now than it was in 1972?

Or is it that you believe the end of the RUC, British soldiers off the street, religious equality, end of unionist misrule, were all achievable in 1972 by peaceful means?

If it's the former, you're more deluded that even I ive you credit for. If it's the latter, well, once again I'll challenge you to explain how all that could have been achieved peacefully so quickly without the use of armed force?

One last question, Sid. Do you condemn the Old IRA and their campaign, given that it resulted in a higher proportion of civilians than the PIRA campaign?
They were achievable, you do it by mass peaceful political mobilisation and a massive, sustained campaign of civil disobedience and protest, you do it by drawing attention to your cause internationally

The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation

The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation

A united Ireland did not happen by murdering people, it will happen by democratic vote

But the PIRA didn't fight for these things, they fought for "Brits out of Ireland" - something they never had a remote chance
of achieving - and they failed

I do not class the old IRA as heroes at all, however they had at least some democratic legitimacy, they had widespread support which the PIRA did not have, and they knew when to stop

The question you have to answer is if you support the current dissidents and if not, why not - because they do they exact same things the PIRA did, they have the exact same aims and the exact same methods

The deluded hypocrisy Sinn Feiners have as regards their views on the dissos is staggering

You're saying it was incumbent on the oppressed to mobalise peacefully in order to achieve a set of stated aims yet its clear the sectarian statelet had been systematically eradicating that population by force from its inception, and indeed before with the help of the British. So basically put yourself in the firing line as sitting ducks until what the Americans came to the rescue?

The only way to deliver peace and equality in any sort of sustained way prior to The Agreement relied on the Unionists and British rolling out equality in their administrative processes, and they refused to do that, had they listened to Terence O'Neill things might have been different, but the Unionists were set on having a brutish domineering anti-Catholic/Republican statelet, and well the Brits, it was basically shits and giggles for them, a territorial claim while the Empire crumbled, a testing ground for political gerrymandering and new forms of barbarism in an occupied land.

"It is frightfully hard to explain to Protestants that if you give Roman Catholics a good job and a good house they will live like Protestants because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Roman Catholic is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Roman Catholics with due consideration and kindness they will live like Protestants in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church"

They were not systematically eradicating the Catholic population

They were systematically discriminating against the Catholic population

There is a big, big difference

Treatment of Catholics in NI was bad enough without resorting to fake history

Define pogrom for us there Ted
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:50:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:42:13 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:23:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
By Sid's logic Mandela was a bloodthirsty psychopath because his terrorist grouping waged a 30 year violent campaign that cost hundreds of civilian lives.
But the ANC did not mount a sustained 28 year campaign of murder like the IRA, there were occasional isolated events

The ANC won by peaceful means, they had mass support, they continually mobilised mass peaceful resistance and continually drew international attention to their cause, and eventually apartheid collapsed because of its inherent absurdity

Also the apartheid system was a much more evil foe than that faced by Catholic civilians in Northern Ireland in 1968, awful as it was

Aye the Belfast pogroms weren't that bad rite enuf ...the street was a mass of brain matter and blood... bit of a mad one to wrap the head around
The apartheid system was a much more evil foe than the NI system

That isn't to say that the NI system wasn't terrible because it obviously was

But proper historical context is important and Irish nationalists tend not to understand that, or deliberately dismiss it - the title of "most oppressed people ever" is important to them

Maintaining that Irish Catholics were as oppressed as the blacks in South Africa or chattel slaves in America or indeed the Jews in Nazi Germany is unfortunately a commonly enough expressed point of view in these sorts of discussions and it displays a profoundly ignorant reading of history, again it's fake history

You're behaving like a holocaust denier now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 04:56:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:42:13 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:23:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
By Sid's logic Mandela was a bloodthirsty psychopath because his terrorist grouping waged a 30 year violent campaign that cost hundreds of civilian lives.
But the ANC did not mount a sustained 28 year campaign of murder like the IRA, there were occasional isolated events

The ANC won by peaceful means, they had mass support, they continually mobilised mass peaceful resistance and continually drew international attention to their cause, and eventually apartheid collapsed because of its inherent absurdity

Also the apartheid system was a much more evil foe than that faced by Catholic civilians in Northern Ireland in 1968, awful as it was

Aye the Belfast pogroms weren't that bad rite enuf ...the street was a mass of brain matter and blood... bit of a mad one to wrap the head around
The apartheid system was a much more evil foe than the NI system

That isn't to say that the NI system wasn't terrible because it obviously was

But proper historical context is important and Irish nationalists tend not to understand that, or deliberately dismiss it - the title of "most oppressed people ever" is important to them

Maintaining that Irish Catholics were as oppressed as the blacks in South Africa or chattel slaves in America or indeed the Jews in Nazi Germany is unfortunately a commonly enough expressed point of view in these sorts of discussions and it displays a profoundly ignorant reading of history, again it's fake history

So common it has only been stated by you to downplay the plight of nationalists in the 6co's

You're the only one putting forward a hierarchy of suffering

Suppose pogroms were only perpetrated against Jews, apartheid against South Africans, what then would you classify the treatment of nationalists in the 6co's?

Just good old fashioned wholesome discrimination with a sprinkling of bullets?

Pacify yourself and it'll all be grand, sit there until International Rescue come flying in over the Black Mountain?

Is this the ending you were alluding to when you said 30 years of mass peaceful protest would inevitably have led to the disbanding of the RUC following pressure from the international community?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2020, 05:46:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

This is true.

Derry won the All Ireland in 1993.  As thousands of supporters made their way home late on the Sunday night from Dublin, they happened upon a traffic jam in the middle of Cookstown.

A British Army checkpoint had backed the cars up the whole way along the (very long) main street.  This was targeted harassment on it's own but the kicker is that this traffic jam conveniently allowed mobs of drunken Loyalists to stone the supporter's cars, loaded with families - jubilant men, women and children.

The Army continued to stop the cars and left the people in the firing line.  They pretended not to notice the Loyalists.

Things like this cause things like Canary Wharf.

Reminder to Sid - this was 1993.

Edit:  You would not have heard mention of this on RTE that night.  Hypothetically, had Kerry supporters been stoned by angry Dublin fans at Newlands Cross, it would have been plastered all over your news.
I got stopped by the Brits coming out of Clones when Dublin played Derry in 2003, just over the border on the Cavan road, about a mile from the Diamond

Big guns hanging around their necks

By this rationale I could then justify a future 28 year bombing, shooting and maiming campaign from 2003 on

We can all play that game

Given the quoted passage here relates to something that happened in September 1993, it would appear to imply regret that the first ceasefire happened less than a year later

Because if its a justification for why the 28 year PIRA campaign happened, it's also a justification for continuing it

I presented the story as it showed (in one small way) why the IRA were still active into the nineties, when you reckoned there was no justification for their existence after "some point in the seventies".

I was in one of those cars with my aunt that night.  A more pacifist woman you could not meet.  She idolised John Hume.  Her response sticks in my mind because it was so unbelievably out of character for her - "Is it any wonder they shoot those bastards".

It's the same reason that BLM and Antifa movements in America exist.  It wasn't that these people just developed a sudden bloodlust (or a penchant for riotous behaviour in the case of BLM/Antifa).  It was a direct response to the circumstances of the time.  IMO this response was absolutely inevitable.

The rest of what you've said is so far into the realms of straw man stuff that it doesn't warrant replying to.  When this is the line you are forced to go down it only demonstrates the weakness of your argument.
The response from 1969 on was inevitable

Of course it was inevitable

But that doesn't mean a campaign of murder which stretched all the way up to 1997 was right, does it?

You talk about straw men, yet you create straw men yourself

Unlike others on this board, my position is nuanced

I understand the reasons why the PIRA happened and why there was violence

I believe you can make a very plausible moral case for a proportionate armed resistance from 1969 to some point in the early 1970s, as a strategy it was deeply flawed but in moral terms the case was probably there, the moral case was to defend your community

There is currently a similar moral case for a proportionate armed resistance by black communities in America

But what you cannot do is make a plausible moral case for a sustained campaign of murder which continued all the way up to 1997

Nobody has ever done it, and nobody ever will

And if one attempts to, well, then they're making the moral case for the murder of Ronan Kerr, Lyra McKee and the attempted murder of Peadar Heffron - because these were the same exact same sort of things which were justified up to 1997

This campaign of violence devastated Northern Ireland, and ruined many lives outside Northern Ireland

And at the end of it, it produced nothing

Any advances came from peaceful means and NI could have been a hell of lot further down the road of a peaceful society than it is now without that campaign of murder

The story you tell of intimidation by the Brits in 1993, and of which there are probably millions of such small stories over the years, is presented as a rationalisation for continuing the PIRA's campaign up to 1994 and then 1997

Yet the first ceasefire happened less than a year later, in 1994

But if these sorts of stories are to be offered as a rationalisation for the campaign of murder up to 1994 and then 1997, you could offer up the same justifications for continuing the campaign of violence beyond 1997, you could attempt to rationalise why it should continue up to the present day, 2020

And these rationalisations or justifications would be wrong

It would have been better had it stopped in 1974 rather than 1994, or 1997

It would have been better had it stopped in 1972, or indeed 1969

As it was, we just got an extra quarter century of a mass murder spree - for nothing

You say that armed resistance is CURRENTLY justified in America.

In February 1989, the British government murdered a solicitor in the North.

But at this point you say that armed resistance from the nationalist community was NOT justified, and had not been so for over a decade - as things had somehow improved, I assume?

There are some serious mental hoops to jump through to paint this as a consistent position.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Shouting "you have no idea what life is like up here" is a non sequitur

A cousin of mine, a Catholic, a civilian with no connections whatsoever to the Brits or the British state, was kidnapped by the PIRA for the crime of working in a bank

Firstly, I do have an idea, a very good idea, I have been extremely interested in the Northern conflict and history for my whole life and visited it more times than I'd care to remember and you don't need to have lived anywhere to know basic, easily identifiable facts about life on the ground

Secondly, the majority of the Catholic population of the North agreed with me - during the Troubles, they voted for the SDLP, not Sinn Fein

Your post effectively says that John Hume, Seamus Mallon, the rest of the SDLP, and the majority of the Catholic population of the six counties did not know what they were talking about
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:10:12 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:54:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Riddle me this... Catholics put themselves up front and centre as sitting ducks

Who from the international community comes to the rescue, and in what era and in what guise?

Seeing as you've leapt headlong into the realm of fantasy bordering on an episode of Quantum Leap you might as well finish the story off in your own inimitable style...
Saying that there are better alternatives to 28 years of murder is not a fantasy

The fantasy is to believe that there was no alternative to 28 years of murder

Do you believe there was no alternative to 28 years of murder?

What sort of a person believes that?

A psychopath, that's who

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:27:31 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 03:55:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

The RUC weren't disbanded by peaceful protest, you clown. They were disbanded as part of the GFA. An agreement which only came about because the British were dragged kicking and screaming by the IRA to the negotiating table.

And you keep perpetuating this "peaceful protest" crap. Again, were the bodies of 14 peaceful protesters in Derry not enough for you? With the eyes of the world on Britain after how it treated civil rights protestors, did it buckle under the pressure of the international community and bring in sweeping reforms? Did it f**k. But sure just you keep believing that they'd have done so if the taigs keep asking nicely enough, often enough  ::)

And once again, could peaceful protest not have happened in 1916 or 1919, instead of armed republican aggression? If not, why not?
The RUC was ended by peaceful negotiation

This is a basic fact

Actually, go back to what Chris Patten said - the RUC was "not being disbanded, it was being transformed"

Just thought I'd throw that in - so Sinn Fein actually accepted a force which, straight from the horse's mouth, was not a disbandment of the RUC at all

What a victory that was, eh

For what died the sons of Roisin? A renamed RUC, apparently!

Are the bodies of 14 people Derry "not enough for me?"

"Not enough" for what?

Not enough that I should want another three thousand bodies piled on top of them?

That seems to be the lesson that you learned from Bloody Sunday - that because 14 innocent civilians were slaughtered, we should have another 25 years of that

My lesson from it would be that such slaughter is evil and futile and that the pain suffered by the families of the Bloody Sunday victims should not be suffered by others

That's the lesson pretty much everybody took from Omagh

By your rationale, the lesson we should have taken from Omagh, was "more of this, please", as long as it's themmuns who get it

That is the "lesson" you and the PIRA took from Bloody Sunday

The Abercorn restaurant bombing, the Donegall Street bombing, the Short Strand bomb, Claudy, Bloody Friday - all later in 1972, but shure, what glorious, glorious days for the oul' sod, eh

Though many if not most of those who died in those atrocities were Catholic civilians



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 14, 2020, 06:39:12 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

Best post on here in a long time Snapchat.  Excellent.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:39:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:20:32 PM
By 1998 the RUC still existed, the British Army was still in Northern Ireland

All that had changed by August 1998 from say, May 1997, was that the leadership of Sinn Fein had effectively surrendered and given up on violence

But there were still people out there who hadn't

So if you're to say that Claudy or Bloody Friday or Enniskillen or Warrington were justified, why not Omagh?

Because the cause was the exact same as any of those

The GFA Agreement was signed in April 1998. Four months before the Omagh Bombing. When the Omaagh Bombing happened, the imminent disbandment of the RUC, and the removal of the British Army were legally set in stone. If you can tell me that that was the case during the PIRA campaign, then you're a whole good one. If you can't, then you're a clueless Free Stater.
The Good Friday Agreement was effectively the PIRA's surrender and signing of terms

The PIRA lost, they were defeated, they gave up, the murder campaign had reached a complete dead end

They did not get what they wanted - they did not get a united Ireland

Therefore those who carried out the Omagh bomb, who disagreed with the PIRA's surrender and signing of terms, can quite reasonably claim the exact same justification as the PIRA claimed for all their atrocities - even if that "justification" was ludicrous - it was ludicrous in 1998 and it was ludicrous in 1972

And dissos today can still claim that ludicrous justification -  why wouldn't they - they have present day Sinn Fein telling them that that justification was valid for the PIRA 1969-1997

But the essential fact has not changed, Northern Ireland is still British - and Sinn Fein accept that

So why wouldn't the dissos - who don't accept that NI is British - claim the exact same justification for murdering people now





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Shouting "you have no idea what life is like up here" is a non sequitur

A cousin of mine, a Catholic, a civilian with no connections whatsoever to the Brits or the British state, was kidnapped by the PIRA for the crime of working in a bank

Firstly, I do have an idea, a very good idea, I have been extremely interested in the Northern conflict and history for my whole life and visited it more times than I'd care to remember and you don't need to have lived anywhere to know basic, easily identifiable facts about life on the ground

Secondly, the majority of the Catholic population of the North agreed with me - during the Troubles, they voted for the SDLP, not Sinn Fein

Your post effectively says that John Hume, Seamus Mallon, the rest of the SDLP, and the majority of the Catholic population of the six counties did not know what they were talking about

I will say it again - you have no idea what life is like up here. You haven't lived here, vicariously via your cousin doesn't count.

I worked in a Catholic bar around the time of the Greysteel massacre and everyone was bricking themselves but refused to be housebound. Try living in Co Antrim (all of the O6) in those times, you'd have a totally different viewpoint on it. As I said Loyalists and many Unionists would slaughter Catholics if they could and they did at times with British state collusion. A man locking up a GAA ground at night in 1997 (not the 70s) and getting brutally killed like Sean Brown in Bellaghy, these things would exist to this day if they could get away with it.
 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2020, 07:04:49 PM
All of this is true about the north. Sinn Féin still shite though
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 03:50:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

You're talking about the difference between fiction and reality.
The real fiction is the fiction you believe - that a 28 year mass murder spree was necessary
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:40:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:50:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 04:42:13 PM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2020, 03:23:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
By Sid's logic Mandela was a bloodthirsty psychopath because his terrorist grouping waged a 30 year violent campaign that cost hundreds of civilian lives.
But the ANC did not mount a sustained 28 year campaign of murder like the IRA, there were occasional isolated events

The ANC won by peaceful means, they had mass support, they continually mobilised mass peaceful resistance and continually drew international attention to their cause, and eventually apartheid collapsed because of its inherent absurdity

Also the apartheid system was a much more evil foe than that faced by Catholic civilians in Northern Ireland in 1968, awful as it was

Aye the Belfast pogroms weren't that bad rite enuf ...the street was a mass of brain matter and blood... bit of a mad one to wrap the head around
The apartheid system was a much more evil foe than the NI system

That isn't to say that the NI system wasn't terrible because it obviously was

But proper historical context is important and Irish nationalists tend not to understand that, or deliberately dismiss it - the title of "most oppressed people ever" is important to them

Maintaining that Irish Catholics were as oppressed as the blacks in South Africa or chattel slaves in America or indeed the Jews in Nazi Germany is unfortunately a commonly enough expressed point of view in these sorts of discussions and it displays a profoundly ignorant reading of history, again it's fake history

You're behaving like a holocaust denier now.
What holocaust took place in Northern Ireland?

Could you fill us in on this surprisingly little known "historical event"?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.

Can't agree with this.

This was an PIRA negotiated surrender. They gave up their guns, disbanded, accepted the unionist veto, accepted the removal of the 26 county State's claim to the 6 counties and recognised crown forces as the legitimate enforcers of the rule of law in the 6 counties. In return they got their prisoners out, were allowed to contest elections in for a place in a mandatory coalition administration with limited powers with a petition of concern stapled to it.

To claim it was about equality is nonsense. Inequality fuelled the sense of oppression surely but the end goal was a United Ireland.

SF performed mental gymnastics to spin the surrender as a victory and executed these gymnastics very well in order to make it palatable to nationalism and ex combatants. The fact the PIRA weren't militarily wiped out is painted as a victory but it clearly wasn't by any objective standard.

The fact SF basically stole the SDLP's policies and place was painted as an electoral revolution, when all it done was spurs a Newtonian reaction in Unionism in the form of the DUP.

To be fair though - the southern parties are unbelievably hypocritical in their approach to SF. Their war was equally as morally justified or unjustified (depending on your position). Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .

It was the old IRA's own surrender under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" (an immediate surrender in the case of FG and a slower one in the form of FF) which gave them both their positions in politics in the 26 counties. It provided the moral platform for the PIRA to pursue their campaign (Christ they even considered arming them on occasion) and allowed SF to accept the same broad terms of surrender at the end of the century.

It is beyond irony for them to criticise SF for learning the same lessons they did.

It is also beyond irony for SF to call dissidents "traitors" for doing the same things they did with the exact same electoral legitimacy they had when they were doing it.

I've watched this thread for a while now and both sides haven't a moral leg to stand on.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Shouting "you have no idea what life is like up here" is a non sequitur

A cousin of mine, a Catholic, a civilian with no connections whatsoever to the Brits or the British state, was kidnapped by the PIRA for the crime of working in a bank

Firstly, I do have an idea, a very good idea, I have been extremely interested in the Northern conflict and history for my whole life and visited it more times than I'd care to remember and you don't need to have lived anywhere to know basic, easily identifiable facts about life on the ground

Secondly, the majority of the Catholic population of the North agreed with me - during the Troubles, they voted for the SDLP, not Sinn Fein

Your post effectively says that John Hume, Seamus Mallon, the rest of the SDLP, and the majority of the Catholic population of the six counties did not know what they were talking about

I will say it again - you have no idea what life is like up here. You haven't lived here, vicariously via your cousin doesn't count.

I worked in a Catholic bar around the time of the Greysteel massacre and everyone was bricking themselves but refused to be housebound. Try living in Co Antrim (all of the O6) in those times, you'd have a totally different viewpoint on it. As I said Loyalists and many Unionists would slaughter Catholics if they could and they did at times with British state collusion. A man locking up a GAA ground at night in 1997 (not the 70s) and getting brutally killed like Sean Brown in Bellaghy, these things would exist to this day if they could get away with it.

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being







Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Chief on December 14, 2020, 08:16:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Shouting "you have no idea what life is like up here" is a non sequitur

A cousin of mine, a Catholic, a civilian with no connections whatsoever to the Brits or the British state, was kidnapped by the PIRA for the crime of working in a bank

Firstly, I do have an idea, a very good idea, I have been extremely interested in the Northern conflict and history for my whole life and visited it more times than I'd care to remember and you don't need to have lived anywhere to know basic, easily identifiable facts about life on the ground

Secondly, the majority of the Catholic population of the North agreed with me - during the Troubles, they voted for the SDLP, not Sinn Fein

Your post effectively says that John Hume, Seamus Mallon, the rest of the SDLP, and the majority of the Catholic population of the six counties did not know what they were talking about

I will say it again - you have no idea what life is like up here. You haven't lived here, vicariously via your cousin doesn't count.

I worked in a Catholic bar around the time of the Greysteel massacre and everyone was bricking themselves but refused to be housebound. Try living in Co Antrim (all of the O6) in those times, you'd have a totally different viewpoint on it. As I said Loyalists and many Unionists would slaughter Catholics if they could and they did at times with British state collusion. A man locking up a GAA ground at night in 1997 (not the 70s) and getting brutally killed like Sean Brown in Bellaghy, these things would exist to this day if they could get away with it.

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being


No - that last paragraph is out of order.

The people who killed Sean Brown take responsibility for it alone - they don't get to drag any other protagonists into it to share responsibility.

The same goes for any other killing of civilians by any other protagonist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:21:26 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 05:46:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

This is true.

Derry won the All Ireland in 1993.  As thousands of supporters made their way home late on the Sunday night from Dublin, they happened upon a traffic jam in the middle of Cookstown.

A British Army checkpoint had backed the cars up the whole way along the (very long) main street.  This was targeted harassment on it's own but the kicker is that this traffic jam conveniently allowed mobs of drunken Loyalists to stone the supporter's cars, loaded with families - jubilant men, women and children.

The Army continued to stop the cars and left the people in the firing line.  They pretended not to notice the Loyalists.

Things like this cause things like Canary Wharf.

Reminder to Sid - this was 1993.

Edit:  You would not have heard mention of this on RTE that night.  Hypothetically, had Kerry supporters been stoned by angry Dublin fans at Newlands Cross, it would have been plastered all over your news.
I got stopped by the Brits coming out of Clones when Dublin played Derry in 2003, just over the border on the Cavan road, about a mile from the Diamond

Big guns hanging around their necks

By this rationale I could then justify a future 28 year bombing, shooting and maiming campaign from 2003 on

We can all play that game

Given the quoted passage here relates to something that happened in September 1993, it would appear to imply regret that the first ceasefire happened less than a year later

Because if its a justification for why the 28 year PIRA campaign happened, it's also a justification for continuing it

I presented the story as it showed (in one small way) why the IRA were still active into the nineties, when you reckoned there was no justification for their existence after "some point in the seventies".

I was in one of those cars with my aunt that night.  A more pacifist woman you could not meet.  She idolised John Hume.  Her response sticks in my mind because it was so unbelievably out of character for her - "Is it any wonder they shoot those bastards".

It's the same reason that BLM and Antifa movements in America exist.  It wasn't that these people just developed a sudden bloodlust (or a penchant for riotous behaviour in the case of BLM/Antifa).  It was a direct response to the circumstances of the time.  IMO this response was absolutely inevitable.

The rest of what you've said is so far into the realms of straw man stuff that it doesn't warrant replying to.  When this is the line you are forced to go down it only demonstrates the weakness of your argument.
The response from 1969 on was inevitable

Of course it was inevitable

But that doesn't mean a campaign of murder which stretched all the way up to 1997 was right, does it?

You talk about straw men, yet you create straw men yourself

Unlike others on this board, my position is nuanced

I understand the reasons why the PIRA happened and why there was violence

I believe you can make a very plausible moral case for a proportionate armed resistance from 1969 to some point in the early 1970s, as a strategy it was deeply flawed but in moral terms the case was probably there, the moral case was to defend your community

There is currently a similar moral case for a proportionate armed resistance by black communities in America

But what you cannot do is make a plausible moral case for a sustained campaign of murder which continued all the way up to 1997

Nobody has ever done it, and nobody ever will

And if one attempts to, well, then they're making the moral case for the murder of Ronan Kerr, Lyra McKee and the attempted murder of Peadar Heffron - because these were the same exact same sort of things which were justified up to 1997

This campaign of violence devastated Northern Ireland, and ruined many lives outside Northern Ireland

And at the end of it, it produced nothing

Any advances came from peaceful means and NI could have been a hell of lot further down the road of a peaceful society than it is now without that campaign of murder

The story you tell of intimidation by the Brits in 1993, and of which there are probably millions of such small stories over the years, is presented as a rationalisation for continuing the PIRA's campaign up to 1994 and then 1997

Yet the first ceasefire happened less than a year later, in 1994

But if these sorts of stories are to be offered as a rationalisation for the campaign of murder up to 1994 and then 1997, you could offer up the same justifications for continuing the campaign of violence beyond 1997, you could attempt to rationalise why it should continue up to the present day, 2020

And these rationalisations or justifications would be wrong

It would have been better had it stopped in 1974 rather than 1994, or 1997

It would have been better had it stopped in 1972, or indeed 1969

As it was, we just got an extra quarter century of a mass murder spree - for nothing

You say that armed resistance is CURRENTLY justified in America.

In February 1989, the British government murdered a solicitor in the North.

But at this point you say that armed resistance from the nationalist community was NOT justified, and had not been so for over a decade - as things had somehow improved, I assume?

There are some serious mental hoops to jump through to paint this as a consistent position.
In March 1999, a solicitor, Rosemary Nelson, was murdered, quite possibly by people who had worked for the British government, certainly by Loyalist terrorists

By your rationale, this was the basis for a continuation of the IRA's mass murder spree

A proportionate armed resistance by the black community is probably morally justified currently in the US

This certainly doesn't have to take the form of a mass murder spree, it doesn't even have to take the form of a single shot, but if the black community mobilised and armed itself in the same way that the pro-Trump lunatics have done - and as the Black Panthers did back in the 60s, ie. that would be perfectly legitimate indeed

If they formed their own armed patrols to police and protect black communities and boycotted the police, that would be legitimate

What I don't propose is booby trap bombs under the cars of random police officers or the shooting dead of people who work as cleaners at police stations






Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 08:26:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 03:50:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

You're talking about the difference between fiction and reality.
The real fiction is the fiction you believe - that a 28 year mass murder spree was necessary

Ah yes, the expert of everything from behind a computer screen. You are utterly ignorant of brutal sectarian regime Catholics were subjected to throughout the entirety of the troubles.

The troubles was a creation of loyalism, a facilitating British state and a apathetic Free State who turned their back on northern nationalists. It's sickening to hear the sanctimonious and ignorant opinions from people like you know nothing about it.

You're the free state equivalent of a holocaust denier.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 08:28:13 PM
Sid is the only person on here trying to justify the killings of civilians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:30:46 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 08:16:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Shouting "you have no idea what life is like up here" is a non sequitur

A cousin of mine, a Catholic, a civilian with no connections whatsoever to the Brits or the British state, was kidnapped by the PIRA for the crime of working in a bank

Firstly, I do have an idea, a very good idea, I have been extremely interested in the Northern conflict and history for my whole life and visited it more times than I'd care to remember and you don't need to have lived anywhere to know basic, easily identifiable facts about life on the ground

Secondly, the majority of the Catholic population of the North agreed with me - during the Troubles, they voted for the SDLP, not Sinn Fein

Your post effectively says that John Hume, Seamus Mallon, the rest of the SDLP, and the majority of the Catholic population of the six counties did not know what they were talking about

I will say it again - you have no idea what life is like up here. You haven't lived here, vicariously via your cousin doesn't count.

I worked in a Catholic bar around the time of the Greysteel massacre and everyone was bricking themselves but refused to be housebound. Try living in Co Antrim (all of the O6) in those times, you'd have a totally different viewpoint on it. As I said Loyalists and many Unionists would slaughter Catholics if they could and they did at times with British state collusion. A man locking up a GAA ground at night in 1997 (not the 70s) and getting brutally killed like Sean Brown in Bellaghy, these things would exist to this day if they could get away with it.

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being


No - that last paragraph is out of order.

The people who killed Sean Brown take responsibility for it alone - they don't get to drag any other protagonists into it to share responsibility.

The same goes for any other killing of civilians by any other protagonist.
The Loyalist terrorists who killed Sean Brown - not the IRA - were the people who killed Sean Brown

That is true

But the people who killed civilians at Claudy and on Bloody Friday killed those civilians - and that was the IRA and nobody else - it wasn't the Brits, it wasn't the RUC or the B-Specials or Paisley

But if NI had not been a cold house for Catholics, Claudy and Bloody Friday would almost certainly not have happened

One reaction begets another, begets another, begets another, begets another

And so on

Violence is a circle, and if the circle is not ended, it continues

So the best thing to do is to break the circle

And it was people like Sean Brown, innocent civilians, who suffered needlessly from the non-breaking of that circle
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling

For a minute i thought it was Ruth Dudley Edwards posting
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:32:14 PM
You're out of your depth in this discussion, Angelo
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:37:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:21:26 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 05:46:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
But murdering civilians was a central, integral component of the PIRA's campaign, that's just a fact

And therein lies the central lie upon which you base your entire hypocrisy. The overwhelmimg majority of PIRA operations were directed against British security force personnel/infrastructure and against commercial targets where no life was lost. The sort of small scale daily attacks that didn't make headlines in the Free State. It's already been pointed out here that the Old IRA actually killed a higher proportion of civilians. Just consider the absolute savagery with which the Old IRA pursued a campaign of disappearing victims (most of whom were innocent). Somewhere between 100 and 200 people. Numbers that absolutely dwarf the number disappeared by the Provos in a fraction of the time. So like I say, hypocritical bull. The savagery of the Old IRA campaign is excusable to you. It doesn't matter to you how many civilians they killed or disappeared. When presented with the reality of what they did, the best you can do is come out with "yeah but it was a shorter war". Gold medal standard mental gymnastics.

The other key lie in your waffle is that the PIRA campaign stopped being justified "some time in the seventies". But of course, it's very easy for a sanctimonious Free State p***k to believe such when he/she wasn't getting harrased and abused on the roadsides on literally a daily basis by the British State, well into the 90s. You never experienced the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you saw the red torch of UDR patrol wagging your car to stop on a quiet road at night and not knowing if you would still be alive on the other side of it. To Free Staters, that is probably (to borrow a phrase) "just another northerner sob story" but to people like me it was the psycologically traumatic reality of going about daily life in this part of the world, well into the 1990's. No doubt your reality of living through the conflict was hearing what your Section 31 state censored media decided it was OK to tell you about; and now, years later, you are just unable to countenance the possibility that your notion of truth in relation to the conflict could be compromised having been informed about it by said censored media. Your argument also patently ignores the reality that were it not for the IRA campaign, the level of peace and equality we have today simply wouldn't exist and was not available to achieve "sometime in the seventies". It's often been said that the Brits had to be bombed to the negotiating table but that's not just something people say glibly. The fact is that the bombing of Canary Wharf literally only happened because the John Major government was refusing to take attempts at talks in any way seriously.John Major wasn't PM in the seventies.

This is true.

Derry won the All Ireland in 1993.  As thousands of supporters made their way home late on the Sunday night from Dublin, they happened upon a traffic jam in the middle of Cookstown.

A British Army checkpoint had backed the cars up the whole way along the (very long) main street.  This was targeted harassment on it's own but the kicker is that this traffic jam conveniently allowed mobs of drunken Loyalists to stone the supporter's cars, loaded with families - jubilant men, women and children.

The Army continued to stop the cars and left the people in the firing line.  They pretended not to notice the Loyalists.

Things like this cause things like Canary Wharf.

Reminder to Sid - this was 1993.

Edit:  You would not have heard mention of this on RTE that night.  Hypothetically, had Kerry supporters been stoned by angry Dublin fans at Newlands Cross, it would have been plastered all over your news.
I got stopped by the Brits coming out of Clones when Dublin played Derry in 2003, just over the border on the Cavan road, about a mile from the Diamond

Big guns hanging around their necks

By this rationale I could then justify a future 28 year bombing, shooting and maiming campaign from 2003 on

We can all play that game

Given the quoted passage here relates to something that happened in September 1993, it would appear to imply regret that the first ceasefire happened less than a year later

Because if its a justification for why the 28 year PIRA campaign happened, it's also a justification for continuing it

I presented the story as it showed (in one small way) why the IRA were still active into the nineties, when you reckoned there was no justification for their existence after "some point in the seventies".

I was in one of those cars with my aunt that night.  A more pacifist woman you could not meet.  She idolised John Hume.  Her response sticks in my mind because it was so unbelievably out of character for her - "Is it any wonder they shoot those bastards".

It's the same reason that BLM and Antifa movements in America exist.  It wasn't that these people just developed a sudden bloodlust (or a penchant for riotous behaviour in the case of BLM/Antifa).  It was a direct response to the circumstances of the time.  IMO this response was absolutely inevitable.

The rest of what you've said is so far into the realms of straw man stuff that it doesn't warrant replying to.  When this is the line you are forced to go down it only demonstrates the weakness of your argument.
The response from 1969 on was inevitable

Of course it was inevitable

But that doesn't mean a campaign of murder which stretched all the way up to 1997 was right, does it?

You talk about straw men, yet you create straw men yourself

Unlike others on this board, my position is nuanced

I understand the reasons why the PIRA happened and why there was violence

I believe you can make a very plausible moral case for a proportionate armed resistance from 1969 to some point in the early 1970s, as a strategy it was deeply flawed but in moral terms the case was probably there, the moral case was to defend your community

There is currently a similar moral case for a proportionate armed resistance by black communities in America

But what you cannot do is make a plausible moral case for a sustained campaign of murder which continued all the way up to 1997

Nobody has ever done it, and nobody ever will

And if one attempts to, well, then they're making the moral case for the murder of Ronan Kerr, Lyra McKee and the attempted murder of Peadar Heffron - because these were the same exact same sort of things which were justified up to 1997

This campaign of violence devastated Northern Ireland, and ruined many lives outside Northern Ireland

And at the end of it, it produced nothing

Any advances came from peaceful means and NI could have been a hell of lot further down the road of a peaceful society than it is now without that campaign of murder

The story you tell of intimidation by the Brits in 1993, and of which there are probably millions of such small stories over the years, is presented as a rationalisation for continuing the PIRA's campaign up to 1994 and then 1997

Yet the first ceasefire happened less than a year later, in 1994

But if these sorts of stories are to be offered as a rationalisation for the campaign of murder up to 1994 and then 1997, you could offer up the same justifications for continuing the campaign of violence beyond 1997, you could attempt to rationalise why it should continue up to the present day, 2020

And these rationalisations or justifications would be wrong

It would have been better had it stopped in 1974 rather than 1994, or 1997

It would have been better had it stopped in 1972, or indeed 1969

As it was, we just got an extra quarter century of a mass murder spree - for nothing

You say that armed resistance is CURRENTLY justified in America.

In February 1989, the British government murdered a solicitor in the North.

But at this point you say that armed resistance from the nationalist community was NOT justified, and had not been so for over a decade - as things had somehow improved, I assume?

There are some serious mental hoops to jump through to paint this as a consistent position.
In March 1999, a solicitor, Rosemary Nelson, was murdered, quite possibly by people who had worked for the British government, certainly by Loyalist terrorists

By your rationale, this was the basis for a continuation of the IRA's mass murder spree

A proportionate armed resistance by the black community is probably morally justified currently in the US

This certainly doesn't have to take the form of a mass murder spree, it doesn't even have to take the form of a single shot, but if the black community mobilised and armed itself in the same way that the pro-Trump lunatics have done - and as the Black Panthers did back in the 60s, ie. that would be perfectly legitimate indeed

If they formed their own armed patrols to police and protect black communities and boycotted the police, that would be legitimate

What I don't propose is booby trap bombs under the cars of random police officers or the shooting dead of people who work as cleaners at police stations

This is a little ludicrous.  Please answer the questions below.

What is their democratic mandate for taking up arms?
What is the purpose of the arms?
How exactly would they "protect" black communities?
What if they were attacked by the forces of the state who were upholding the law?
If they boycott the police, how is justice administered in these communities - who decides?
Is there a reasonable prospect of victory for these folks in military combat with US armed forces?
What happens if some of these elements go rogue with their arms?
If the police were then to start interning black people randomly what is the next step?
If the US Government then brought the army onto the street to defend the 'law abiding white folk' what would happen?
What if that US army then shot 14 unarmed black people dead in an afternoon - but told the world it was justified because they were armed?
What if the US government censored the spokespersons of these armed black people so that their grievances could not be aired beyond their own networks?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

It's a collective pathology

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

I see you edited your post to include a Ruth Dudley Edwards reference - thanks for the personal abuse - it's always welcome

Ruth Dudley Edwards is an example of that pathology of mind

But so is calling anybody who says the IRA's mass murder spree was wrong "Ruth Dudley Edwards" also a pathology of the mind
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

So by this logic, they lost superiority?

I say this, not as a smart arsed internet comment but 100% genuinely - your incoherence can only be explained by mental illness or drug use.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 08:47:26 PM
Sid - you have regularly called white racists in the US fascists and that they need to be destroyed and now you're saying loyalists/unionists are the same but the downtrodden catholic community should bow down to them. I'm not into personal insults but you're certainly a contradiction, I'll give you that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

So by this logic, they lost superiority?

I say this, not as a smart arsed internet comment but 100% genuinely - your incoherence can only be explained by mental illness or drug use.
Thanks as always for the personal abuse

I don't know what is difficult for you to understand about my point

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:59:36 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 08:47:26 PM
Sid - you have regularly called white racists in the US fascists and that they need to be destroyed and now you're saying loyalists/unionists are the same but the downtrodden catholic community should bow down to them. I'm not into personal insults but you're certainly a contradiction, I'll give you that.
White racists in America are fascists

When I say they need to be destroyed, I mean that white supremacist groups should be classed as terrorist organisations, I mean that the Republican party, which is the driver of fascism, needs to be thoroughly defeated, discredited and ultimately disbanded, the purveyors of fascist corruption and criminality like Trump and cronies need to feel the full force of justice, there needs to be mass mobiliisation including civil disobedience if necessary, boycotting of police if necessary until they are reformed thoroughly, and a thorough changing of the public narrative, a radical public re-evaluation of America's racist history and present, and that people stop biting their lips about what much of white America is, and stop giving undue credit and respect to what is a cancerous racist ideology

What I don't support is a sustained mass murder spree, like what the IRA did

Oh, and precisely nowhere did I say the Catholic population of the north should have ever "bowed down" to anybody

The problem there is you see anything short of a mass murder spree as "bowing down"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:59:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

So by this logic, they lost superiority?

I say this, not as a smart arsed internet comment but 100% genuinely - your incoherence can only be explained by mental illness or drug use.
Thanks as always for the personal abuse

I don't know what is difficult for you to understand about my point

You say the unionist community lost nothing in the GFA.  Then a couple of posts later you say they no longer enjoy superiority over their neighbours?

It can't be both?

You say the IRA were not justified in taking up arms after the mid seventies... then a couple of posts later say black folks in America ARE currently justified in doing so?  In between times you agree that the British government were actively murdering catholic civilians, long after the mid seventies?

So I stand by my comment.

It's not meant as abuse, but in light of the evidence of what you've posted here in the past few hours, it's a legitimate observation.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:59:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

So by this logic, they lost superiority?

I say this, not as a smart arsed internet comment but 100% genuinely - your incoherence can only be explained by mental illness or drug use.
Thanks as always for the personal abuse

I don't know what is difficult for you to understand about my point

You say the unionist community lost nothing in the GFA.  Then a couple of posts later you say they no longer enjoy superiority over their neighbours?

It can't be both?

You say the IRA were not justified in taking up arms after the mid seventies... then a couple of posts later say black folks in America ARE currently justified in doing so?  In between times you agree that the British government were actively murdering catholic civilians, long after the mid seventies?

So I stand by my comment.

It's not meant as abuse, but in light of the evidence of what you've posted here in the past few hours, it's a legitimate observation.
There are no contradictions at all

Extension of rights to a traditionally marginalised community is not a loss for traditionally hegemonic community, it's simple human rights, which is the way it should be

My human rights do not depend on you being denied them

Men did not lose when women got the vote, straight people did not lose when gay people gained the right to get married, whites in America lost no rights when the Civil Rights struggle in America achieved its greatest triumphs

This is not a zero sum game

In fact the whole of society gains

An extension of human rights is a challenge to the idea of superiority in a particular ethnic group - it's a challenge to an ingrained mental pathology

But in reality the traditional hegemonic group has lost nothing at all, they just think they have - because their pathology has taught them so

Many Protestant Unionists genuinely did believe they were inherently superior to Catholics, but of course they weren't

Unionist hegemony had been decreasing by the year for many years in any case p even before the Troubles - and would have continued to do so whatever happened, the NI Civil Rights movement showed that Catholics were no longer prepared to put up with being second class citizens

Group hegemony is not a human right

I've already outlined what I think is morally justified for the black communities in America and they can do it within the law - US law allows for arming yourself publicly - but you do so without killing people

The most likely outcome to armed black mobilisation - which doesn't have to be violent in any way - is a change in the gun laws - which would actually be good for everybody - it would exploit the racist nature of white US society to make it rethink its own pathology as regards guns

In the mid 1970s in NI there was a vicious circle of murder - you clearly believe there was no alternative to continuing that

Why do you believe that?

It was not a case of there being no alternative to the worst option of all, a perpetuation of that cycle of murder

There certainly were alternatives






Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2020, 09:44:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:59:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

So by this logic, they lost superiority?

I say this, not as a smart arsed internet comment but 100% genuinely - your incoherence can only be explained by mental illness or drug use.
Thanks as always for the personal abuse

I don't know what is difficult for you to understand about my point

You say the unionist community lost nothing in the GFA.  Then a couple of posts later you say they no longer enjoy superiority over their neighbours?

It can't be both?

You say the IRA were not justified in taking up arms after the mid seventies... then a couple of posts later say black folks in America ARE currently justified in doing so?  In between times you agree that the British government were actively murdering catholic civilians, long after the mid seventies?

So I stand by my comment.

It's not meant as abuse, but in light of the evidence of what you've posted here in the past few hours, it's a legitimate observation.
There are no contradictions at all

Extension of rights to a traditionally marginalised community is not a loss for traditionally hegemonic community, it's simple human rights, which is the way it should be

My human rights do not depend on you being denied them

Men did not lose when women got the vote, straight people did not lose when gay people gained the right to get married, whites in America lost no rights when the Civil Rights struggle in America achieved its greatest triumphs

This is not a zero sum game

In fact the whole of society gains

An extension of human rights is a challenge to the idea of superiority in a particular ethnic group - it's a challenge to an ingrained mental pathology

But in reality the traditional hegemonic group has lost nothing at all, they just think they have - because their pathology has taught them so

Many Protestant Unionists genuinely did believe they were inherently superior to Catholics, but of course they weren't

Unionist hegemony had been decreasing by the year for many years in any case p even before the Troubles - and would have continued to do so whatever happened, the NI Civil Rights movement showed that Catholics were no longer prepared to put up with being second class citizens

Group hegemony is not a human right

I've already outlined what I think is morally justified for the black communities in America and they can do it within the law - US law allows for arming yourself publicly - but you do so without killing people

The most likely outcome to armed black mobilisation - which doesn't have to be violent in any way - is a change in the gun laws - which would actually be good for everybody - it would exploit the racist nature of white US society to make it rethink its own pathology as regards guns

In the mid 1970s in NI there was a vicious circle of murder - you clearly believe there was no alternative to continuing that

Why do you believe that?

It was not a case of there being no alternative to the worst option of all, a perpetuation of that cycle of murder

There certainly were alternatives

They absolutely did lose.

Things like employment/public housing are and were finite resources - and the unionist community no longer had the 'right' to the lions share.  They no longer have the luxury of being able to forget about 40-50% of the population when competing for decent employment.  The six counties are less prosperous now than they were pre-partition, yet the 'Catholic' section of population has never been more prosperous.  Where do you think that wealth has come from?

Also, if you think that BLM/Antifa are going to publicly arm themselves and it is not going to lead to violence, you are providing further evidence to back up my earlier assertion.  Could I ask you again to answer the questions I asked you earlier?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 09:45:30 PM
Oh, and what the Unionists very definitely won from Sinn Fein/PIRA was the disbandment of the PIRA, a commitment to the newly renamed/revamped police force, a return to a cushy number at Stormont, the decommissioning of arms, a statement that the war was over, and a commitment to recognise that the future political status of NI would be determined by democratic vote

That's an almost total victory in anybody's language

But their mental pathology prevented them from recognising that

It's tremendously interesting from a psychological point of view

Imagine winning that much and thinking you've lost, crazy shit altogether


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:02:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 09:44:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:59:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

So by this logic, they lost superiority?

I say this, not as a smart arsed internet comment but 100% genuinely - your incoherence can only be explained by mental illness or drug use.
Thanks as always for the personal abuse

I don't know what is difficult for you to understand about my point

You say the unionist community lost nothing in the GFA.  Then a couple of posts later you say they no longer enjoy superiority over their neighbours?

It can't be both?

You say the IRA were not justified in taking up arms after the mid seventies... then a couple of posts later say black folks in America ARE currently justified in doing so?  In between times you agree that the British government were actively murdering catholic civilians, long after the mid seventies?

So I stand by my comment.

It's not meant as abuse, but in light of the evidence of what you've posted here in the past few hours, it's a legitimate observation.
There are no contradictions at all

Extension of rights to a traditionally marginalised community is not a loss for traditionally hegemonic community, it's simple human rights, which is the way it should be

My human rights do not depend on you being denied them

Men did not lose when women got the vote, straight people did not lose when gay people gained the right to get married, whites in America lost no rights when the Civil Rights struggle in America achieved its greatest triumphs

This is not a zero sum game

In fact the whole of society gains

An extension of human rights is a challenge to the idea of superiority in a particular ethnic group - it's a challenge to an ingrained mental pathology

But in reality the traditional hegemonic group has lost nothing at all, they just think they have - because their pathology has taught them so

Many Protestant Unionists genuinely did believe they were inherently superior to Catholics, but of course they weren't

Unionist hegemony had been decreasing by the year for many years in any case p even before the Troubles - and would have continued to do so whatever happened, the NI Civil Rights movement showed that Catholics were no longer prepared to put up with being second class citizens

Group hegemony is not a human right

I've already outlined what I think is morally justified for the black communities in America and they can do it within the law - US law allows for arming yourself publicly - but you do so without killing people

The most likely outcome to armed black mobilisation - which doesn't have to be violent in any way - is a change in the gun laws - which would actually be good for everybody - it would exploit the racist nature of white US society to make it rethink its own pathology as regards guns

In the mid 1970s in NI there was a vicious circle of murder - you clearly believe there was no alternative to continuing that

Why do you believe that?

It was not a case of there being no alternative to the worst option of all, a perpetuation of that cycle of murder

There certainly were alternatives

They absolutely did lose.

Things like employment/public housing are and were finite resources - and the unionist community no longer had the 'right' to the lions share.  They no longer have the luxury of being able to forget about 40-50% of the population when competing for decent employment.  The six counties are less prosperous now than they were pre-partition, yet the 'Catholic' section of population has never been more prosperous.  Where do you think that wealth has come from?

Also, if you think that BLM/Antifa are going to publicly arm themselves and it is not going to lead to violence, you are providing further evidence to back up my earlier assertion.  Could I ask you again to answer the questions I asked you earlier?
Catholics/Nationalists embraced education from a long way back - they saw it as a route out of oppression - much of Unionism as a culture rejected education in favour of a self indulgent retreat into navel gazing

Anything the Unionists had "lost", they had lost long before the GFA - but it wasn't the IRA who took it from them, it was ordinary Catholics fed up with playing second fiddle, it was people like John Hume and Seamus Mallon who gave the Catholic population a self respect

Fair rights, fair housing, fair voting, fair education, fair employment is not a loss for the traditionally hegemonic group - it's simple extension of human rights

The problem is in the conceptualisation of such as a "loss", and that comes down to mental pathology

Unfortunately there is a section of Catholic Nationalism, both north and south, which would see any recognition of Unionist rights in a future united Ireland, or any giving up of official nationalist paraphernalia such as the Irish tricolour or Anhran na bhFiann, as a loss - and that's a mental pathology too

You didn't answer my question about whether you believe there were alternatives to mass murder in the 1970s

You can arm yourself without being a death squad, you know, and you can certainly do so if it's within the law, as it is in the US





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 14, 2020, 10:04:49 PM
Pretty much all revolutionary movements based on violence since the 60s were a failure with the exception of some war torn shiteholes in sub-Saharan Africa and Afghanistan. Civil rights in America, Polish Solidarity, ANC in south Africa were all examples of non-violent political action could effect real change. Violent paramilitarism whether it be Red-Army faction, FARC, ETA were all failures.

It was the provisional IRA and militant republicanism that were "slow learners".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 10:06:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:32:14 PM
You're out of your depth in this discussion, Angelo

Considering the kicking you are taking, I'm more than happy to sit back and take a backseat. It's good to see a malicious slabberer like you get exposed as such.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 10:11:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 14, 2020, 10:04:49 PM
Pretty much all revolutionary movements based on violence since the 60s were a failure with the exception of some war torn shiteholes in sub-Saharan Africa and Afghanistan. Civil rights in America, Polish Solidarity, ANC in south Africa were all examples of non-violent political action could effect real change. Violent paramilitarism whether it be Red-Army faction, FARC, ETA were all failures.

It was the provisional IRA and militant republicanism that were "slow learners".

That's not true. Plenty of examples to counter that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:17:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 10:06:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:32:14 PM
You're out of your depth in this discussion, Angelo

Considering the kicking you are taking, I'm more than happy to sit back and take a backseat. It's good to see a malicious slabberer like you get exposed as such.
Oh look, you said "I'm taking a kicking" and you called me a "malicious slabberer"

How on earth could I ever come back from such razor sharp debating skills?

There's a barstool that's missing a blatherer somewhere

Don't forget to order your €9 meal first, and wear a mask, it might prevent others from having to listen to you

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:02:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 09:44:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:59:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

So by this logic, they lost superiority?

I say this, not as a smart arsed internet comment but 100% genuinely - your incoherence can only be explained by mental illness or drug use.
Thanks as always for the personal abuse

I don't know what is difficult for you to understand about my point

You say the unionist community lost nothing in the GFA.  Then a couple of posts later you say they no longer enjoy superiority over their neighbours?

It can't be both?

You say the IRA were not justified in taking up arms after the mid seventies... then a couple of posts later say black folks in America ARE currently justified in doing so?  In between times you agree that the British government were actively murdering catholic civilians, long after the mid seventies?

So I stand by my comment.

It's not meant as abuse, but in light of the evidence of what you've posted here in the past few hours, it's a legitimate observation.
There are no contradictions at all

Extension of rights to a traditionally marginalised community is not a loss for traditionally hegemonic community, it's simple human rights, which is the way it should be

My human rights do not depend on you being denied them

Men did not lose when women got the vote, straight people did not lose when gay people gained the right to get married, whites in America lost no rights when the Civil Rights struggle in America achieved its greatest triumphs

This is not a zero sum game

In fact the whole of society gains

An extension of human rights is a challenge to the idea of superiority in a particular ethnic group - it's a challenge to an ingrained mental pathology

But in reality the traditional hegemonic group has lost nothing at all, they just think they have - because their pathology has taught them so

Many Protestant Unionists genuinely did believe they were inherently superior to Catholics, but of course they weren't

Unionist hegemony had been decreasing by the year for many years in any case p even before the Troubles - and would have continued to do so whatever happened, the NI Civil Rights movement showed that Catholics were no longer prepared to put up with being second class citizens

Group hegemony is not a human right

I've already outlined what I think is morally justified for the black communities in America and they can do it within the law - US law allows for arming yourself publicly - but you do so without killing people

The most likely outcome to armed black mobilisation - which doesn't have to be violent in any way - is a change in the gun laws - which would actually be good for everybody - it would exploit the racist nature of white US society to make it rethink its own pathology as regards guns

In the mid 1970s in NI there was a vicious circle of murder - you clearly believe there was no alternative to continuing that

Why do you believe that?

It was not a case of there being no alternative to the worst option of all, a perpetuation of that cycle of murder

There certainly were alternatives

They absolutely did lose.

Things like employment/public housing are and were finite resources - and the unionist community no longer had the 'right' to the lions share.  They no longer have the luxury of being able to forget about 40-50% of the population when competing for decent employment.  The six counties are less prosperous now than they were pre-partition, yet the 'Catholic' section of population has never been more prosperous.  Where do you think that wealth has come from?

Also, if you think that BLM/Antifa are going to publicly arm themselves and it is not going to lead to violence, you are providing further evidence to back up my earlier assertion.  Could I ask you again to answer the questions I asked you earlier?
Catholics/Nationalists embraced education from a long way back - they saw it as a route out of oppression - much of Unionism as a culture rejected education in favour of a self indulgent retreat into navel gazing

Anything the Unionists had "lost", they had lost long before the GFA - but it wasn't the IRA who took it from them, it was ordinary Catholics fed up with playing second fiddle, it was people like John Hume and Seamus Mallon who gave the Catholic population a self respect

Fair rights, fair housing, fair voting, fair education, fair employment is not a loss for the traditionally hegemonic group - it's simple extension of human rights

The problem is in the conceptualisation of such as a "loss", and that comes down to mental pathology

Unfortunately there is a section of Catholic Nationalism, both north and south, which would see any recognition of Unionist rights in a future united Ireland, or any giving up of official nationalist paraphernalia such as the Irish tricolour or Anhran na bhFiann, as a loss - and that's a mental pathology too

You didn't answer my question about whether you believe there were alternatives to mass murder in the 1970s

You can arm yourself without being a death squad, you know, and you can certainly do so if it's within the law, as it is in the US

I'll politely remind you that I asked first.

Please take the floor.

You answers to these questions will hopefully help untangle the mass of logical contradictions your recent posts have involved.

You should treat the opportunity to answer these as a win.

Also, please elaborate on the rather random statement in bold.  Please show me another example where a traditionally dominant group has been forced to relinquish that status and where they have treated it as a positive outcome.  Otherwise, it will just be disregarded as further incoherent rambling.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:37:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.
Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin






Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: restorepride on December 14, 2020, 10:54:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Shouting "you have no idea what life is like up here" is a non sequitur

A cousin of mine, a Catholic, a civilian with no connections whatsoever to the Brits or the British state, was kidnapped by the PIRA for the crime of working in a bank

Firstly, I do have an idea, a very good idea, I have been extremely interested in the Northern conflict and history for my whole life and visited it more times than I'd care to remember and you don't need to have lived anywhere to know basic, easily identifiable facts about life on the ground

Secondly, the majority of the Catholic population of the North agreed with me - during the Troubles, they voted for the SDLP, not Sinn Fein

Your post effectively says that John Hume, Seamus Mallon, the rest of the SDLP, and the majority of the Catholic population of the six counties did not know what they were talking about

I will say it again - you have no idea what life is like up here. You haven't lived here, vicariously via your cousin doesn't count.

I worked in a Catholic bar around the time of the Greysteel massacre and everyone was bricking themselves but refused to be housebound. Try living in Co Antrim (all of the O6) in those times, you'd have a totally different viewpoint on it. As I said Loyalists and many Unionists would slaughter Catholics if they could and they did at times with British state collusion. A man locking up a GAA ground at night in 1997 (not the 70s) and getting brutally killed like Sean Brown in Bellaghy, these things would exist to this day if they could get away with it.

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being
You are way out of line on this one and clearly out of your depth.  I mean WAY WAY out of line.

The above comment re Sean Brown is totally naive, inaccurate, and insulting to the Brown family and the GAA.

Disgraceful.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:37:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.
Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin








Do those, like yourself, who celebrate/justify the sectarian murders carried out by the Old IRA have a position on this coin at all?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: restorepride on December 14, 2020, 10:57:31 PM
https://www.patfinucanecentre.org/cases/sean-brown

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 11:23:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:37:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.
Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin








Do those, like yourself, who celebrate/justify the sectarian murders carried out by the Old IRA have a position on this coin at all?
I don't celebrate any murders carried out by the old IRA, never mind sectarian ones

Murder is not a thing to be celebrated

It must be great to live in a straw man version of reality

When you feel outpointed, just lie about the person you're debating with

Over and over and over we see it from SF supporters

I have sod all time for Fine Gael but their supporters can at least mostly debate honestly

SF supporters just throw the toys out of the pram and lie flat out, no compunction about doing so, it's pure Trump

And that's the way they've been conditioned by the party, which operates along the lines of a cult


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on December 14, 2020, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

It's a collective pathology

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

I see you edited your post to include a Ruth Dudley Edwards reference - thanks for the personal abuse - it's always welcome

Ruth Dudley Edwards is an example of that pathology of mind

But so is calling anybody who says the IRA's mass murder spree was wrong "Ruth Dudley Edwards" also a pathology of the mind

Right, apologies for the RDE ammendment. That was uncalled for. She definitely wouldn't have written the above which would likely see you expelled from the 1922 committee!
       That being said,  i think your stated views on the gfa(that was all i commented on) are simplistic and deliberately provocative to get a rise out of another poster. 
         The GFA was a peace agreement with all sides negotiating and compromising(except DUP). Sure there were fudges and inconsistencies but it was enough that all sides could say they came away with something.
     The fact that the majority of the unionist population voted against it, would lead me to believe anectodotally, that they believed the DUP hype that nationalists got a slightly better deal rather than the whole lot of them being  sectarian bigots(undoubtedly there is a  proportion that are, as you said).
       
           
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 11:32:06 PM
Quote from: restorepride on December 14, 2020, 10:54:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Shouting "you have no idea what life is like up here" is a non sequitur

A cousin of mine, a Catholic, a civilian with no connections whatsoever to the Brits or the British state, was kidnapped by the PIRA for the crime of working in a bank

Firstly, I do have an idea, a very good idea, I have been extremely interested in the Northern conflict and history for my whole life and visited it more times than I'd care to remember and you don't need to have lived anywhere to know basic, easily identifiable facts about life on the ground

Secondly, the majority of the Catholic population of the North agreed with me - during the Troubles, they voted for the SDLP, not Sinn Fein

Your post effectively says that John Hume, Seamus Mallon, the rest of the SDLP, and the majority of the Catholic population of the six counties did not know what they were talking about

I will say it again - you have no idea what life is like up here. You haven't lived here, vicariously via your cousin doesn't count.

I worked in a Catholic bar around the time of the Greysteel massacre and everyone was bricking themselves but refused to be housebound. Try living in Co Antrim (all of the O6) in those times, you'd have a totally different viewpoint on it. As I said Loyalists and many Unionists would slaughter Catholics if they could and they did at times with British state collusion. A man locking up a GAA ground at night in 1997 (not the 70s) and getting brutally killed like Sean Brown in Bellaghy, these things would exist to this day if they could get away with it.

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being
You are way out of line on this one and clearly out of your depth.  I mean WAY WAY out of line.

The above comment re Sean Brown is totally naive, inaccurate, and insulting to the Brown family and the GAA.

Disgraceful.
It's not in any way inaccurate, it's exactly right

You made zero effort to say why you think my post is disgraceful, zero effort to engage

And therefore your post has zero merit or credibility

You've no right to stop people voicing opinions and facts and truths you don't like
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 11:37:31 PM
A quick summation of Sid and his position:

- Insists that the PIRA campaign was "a mass murder campaign" but the Old IRA campaign, which involved a higher proportion of civilian killings, was not.

- Claims that the Old IRA campaign had a mandate despite the SF manifesto in 1918 not making any reference to starting a war.

- Argues that the PIRA campaign was about murdering civlians even though it's been spelled out to him that the overwhelming majority of IRA operations were directed against security forces and commerical targets.

- Believes that dissidents today are operating in the same societal conditions for Catholics/nationalists as the PIRA did.

- Believes that the British Government wiillingly and enthusiastically engaged in peace negotiations without having been forced into it and that the RUC was disbanded apparently just thanks to the generosity of spirit of British negotiators when nationalists peacefully asked for the force to be discontinued.

- Maintains he understands the reality of day-to-day life in the north throughout the conflict because he was once (Yip. Once.) stopped by a british army patrol. An event which by his own admission, took place years after the end of the conflict.

- Believes that all that nationalists had to do to achieve what we have today was to have engaged in peaceful protest. He even suggests that this could all have been achieved by 1972. Seemingly blissfully unaware that that was the very same year that Britain shot dead 14 peaceful protesters in Derry. How easy must it be for someone sitting in the comfort and safety of the Free State to insist that more northern Catholics should have risked sacrificing themselves in front of British guns by continuing to rely on peaceful protesting. Maybe Sid thinks Bloody Sunday was a flash in the pan. But a year before Bloody Sunday, a Civil Rights march was attacked by the police and loyalists at Burntollet Bridge. Despite this, they DID do what Sid suggested: they persisted with peaceful protest. A year later 14 of them lay dead.

- Refuses to say why peaceful protest would have worked in 1972 but was not an option in 1919.

- Maintains that the British would have buckled under the pressure of Catholic peaceful protests despite the fact that Britain didn't even buckle under the worldwide condemnation it was faced with after Bloody Sunday. Despite having been asked repeatedly, he has yet to explain how he can believe such a downright stupid notion.

- Seemingly believes that if you murder civilians in a long war then you are morally repugnant, but if you murder a higher proportion of civilians but over a short, intensly savage campaign, well that's at worst just "a grey area" morally.

- Seemingly believes that if you regard an armed campaign as having been justifiable, that you then must therefor believe every action within that campaign was morally acceptable and justifiable. For this reason, he played the favourite game of many Free Staters - victim bingo - and pulled the names of a few IRA murder victims out of the air and proclaimed that because I believe the IRA campaign itself was morally justifiable, that I must by extension, believe those murders were justified. Curiously, though, he refuses to condemn the Old IRA campaign. By his own twisted logic, surely that would mean he too must believe their murders of civilians were all justified too? Can you have it both ways?

- Attacks posters disagreeing with him for making straw man arguments and being "dishonest posters" despite going so far as to repeatedly accuse me of supporting the murdering of civilians and refusing to post any evidence whatsoever to substantiate this outrageous and sick lie.

- Most pathetically and shamefully of all, blames the IRA for the loyalist murder of Sean Brown, thereby absolving the loyalists/ states agents who did it, from responsibility.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 14, 2020, 11:41:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 11:37:31 PM
A quick summation of Sid and his position:

- Insists that the PIRA campaign was "a mass murder campaign" but the Old IRA campaign, which involved a higher proportion of civilian killings, was not.

- Claims that the Old IRA campaign had a mandate despite the SF manifesto in 1918 not making any reference to starting a war.

- Argues that the PIRA campaign was about murdering civlians even though it's been spelled out to him that the overwhelming majority of IRA operations were directed against security forces and commerical targets.

- Believes that dissidents today are operating in the same societal conditions for Catholics/nationalists as the PIRA did.

- Believes that the British Government wiillingly and enthusiastically engaged in peace negotiations without having been forced into it and that the RUC was disbanded apparently just thanks to the generosity of spirit of British negotiators when nationalists peacefully asked for the force to be discontinued.

- Maintains he understands the reality of day-to-day life in the north throughout the conflict because he was once (Yip. Once.) stopped by a british army patrol. An event which by his own admission, took place years after the end of the conflict.

- Believes that all that nationalists had to do to achieve what we have today was to have engaged in peaceful protest. He even suggests that this could all have been achieved by 1972. Seemingly blissfully unaware that that was the very same year that Britain shot dead 14 peaceful protesters in Derry. How easy must it be for someone sitting in the comfort and safety of the Free State to insist that more northern Catholics should have risked sacrificing themselves in front of British guns by continuing to rely on peaceful protesting. Maybe Sid thinks Bloody Sunday was a flash in the pan. But a year before Bloody Sunday, a Civil Rights march was attacked by the police and loyalists at Burntollet Bridge. Despite this, they DID do what Sid suggested: they persisted with peaceful protest. A year later 14 of them lay dead.

- Refuses to say why peaceful protest would have worked in 1972 but was not an option in 1919.

- Maintains that the British would have buckled under the pressure of Catholic peaceful protests despite the fact that Britain didn't even buckle under the worldwide condemnation it was faced with after Bloody Sunday. Despite having been asked repeatedly, he has yet to explain how he can believe such a downright stupid notion.

- Seemingly believes that if you murder civilians in a long war then you are morally repugnant, but if you murder a higher proportion of civilians but over a short, intensly savage campaign, well that's at worst just "a grey area" morally.

- Seemingly believes that if you regard an armed campaign as having been justifiable, that you then must therefor believe every action within that campaign was morally acceptable and justifiable. For this reason, he played the favourite game of many Free Staters - victim bingo - and pulled the names of a few IRA murder victims out of the air and proclaimed that because I believe the IRA campaign itself was morally justifiable, that I must by extension, believe those murders were justified. Curiously, though, he refuses to condemn the Old IRA campaign. By his own twisted logic, surely that would mean he too must believe their murders of civilians were all justified too?

- Attacks posters disagreeing with him for making straw man arguments and being "dishonest posters" despite going so far as to repeatedly accuse me of supporting the murdering of civilians and refusing to post any evidence whatsoever to substantiate this outrageous and sick lie.

- Most pathetically and shamefully of all, blames the IRA for the loyalist murder of Sean Brown, thereby absolving the loyalists/ states agents who did it, from responsibility.

Encapsulates the deluded tosser perfectly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on December 14, 2020, 11:48:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 10:11:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 14, 2020, 10:04:49 PM
Pretty much all revolutionary movements based on violence since the 60s were a failure with the exception of some war torn shiteholes in sub-Saharan Africa and Afghanistan. Civil rights in America, Polish Solidarity, ANC in south Africa were all examples of non-violent political action could effect real change. Violent paramilitarism whether it be Red-Army faction, FARC, ETA were all failures.

It was the provisional IRA and militant republicanism that were "slow learners".

That's not true. Plenty of examples to counter that.

like what
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 11:50:20 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 14, 2020, 11:41:09 PM
Encapsulates the deluded tosser perfectly.

Well you say that, Red Hand, but apparently it was actually me who made you post that (using mind control I assume).

After all, Sid (the fella who is adamant that he dislikes dishonest posters and straw man arguments) this morning posted an accusation that when anyone leaves a post agreeing with something I've written, that I somehow made them do it.

Seems straw men only upset him when they are built by others.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:04:25 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

It's a collective pathology

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

I see you edited your post to include a Ruth Dudley Edwards reference - thanks for the personal abuse - it's always welcome

Ruth Dudley Edwards is an example of that pathology of mind

But so is calling anybody who says the IRA's mass murder spree was wrong "Ruth Dudley Edwards" also a pathology of the mind

Right, apologies for the RDE ammendment. That was uncalled for. She definitely wouldn't have written the above which would likely see you expelled from the 1922 committee!
       That being said,  i think your stated views on the gfa(that was all i commented on) are simplistic and deliberately provocative to get a rise out of another poster. 
         The GFA was a peace agreement with all sides negotiating and compromising(except DUP). Sure there were fudges and inconsistencies but it was enough that all sides could say they came away with something.
     The fact that the majority of the unionist population voted against it, would lead me to believe anectodotally, that they believed the DUP hype that nationalists got a slightly better deal rather than the whole lot of them being  sectarian bigots(undoubtedly there is a  proportion that are, as you said).
       

Not provocative at all

The PIRA armed campaign was unquestionably a failure and the PIRA failed unquestionably in their one central, all consuming goal, which was to get a united Ireland

What Sinn Fein did "win" was the release of PIRA prisoners which was a bitter pill for Unionists to swallow, but this undoubtedly was for the greater good

Sinn Fein "won" admittance to the political process, they had already done this with the second ceasefire, but this was very much a consolation prize for the failure of the armed campaign

Decommisioning and "the war is over" followed later, these were the rotten cherry on top of the cake of defeat

Who really lost though were the families of the victims on all sides, who saw their murderers let out, some of them reluctantly accepted that this was for the greater good, many more remained very bitter, understandably so

A somewhat functioning, non-sectarian or at least much less sectarian police force, something which had the potential to be built up into a widely respected societal institution if it functioned as intended, was a victory for everybody, for society

But this was not what the PIRA fought for, and indeed for eight years Sinn Fein remained firmly on the fence about this police force

Neither was Stormont what they had fought for, Stormont was one of their problems at the start of the Troubles

What the Sinn Fein side was left with was a route into democratic politics, one that had already been available to them three decades earlier

Three decades of fighting for that?

What was it all for?

Paisley realised towards the end that the DUP had won despite not even taking part in the GFA negotiations and NI's place in the UK was safe as long as the majority of the people of NI wanted that - which was always going to be the case anyway, no matter what happened, fighting or no fighting

That was the central truth about NI from 1922 on












Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:07:12 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 11:37:31 PM
A quick summation of Sid and his position:

- Insists that the PIRA campaign was "a mass murder campaign" but the Old IRA campaign, which involved a higher proportion of civilian killings, was not.

- Claims that the Old IRA campaign had a mandate despite the SF manifesto in 1918 not making any reference to starting a war.

- Argues that the PIRA campaign was about murdering civlians even though it's been spelled out to him that the overwhelming majority of IRA operations were directed against security forces and commerical targets.

- Believes that dissidents today are operating in the same societal conditions for Catholics/nationalists as the PIRA did.

- Believes that the British Government wiillingly and enthusiastically engaged in peace negotiations without having been forced into it and that the RUC was disbanded apparently just thanks to the generosity of spirit of British negotiators when nationalists peacefully asked for the force to be discontinued.

- Maintains he understands the reality of day-to-day life in the north throughout the conflict because he was once (Yip. Once.) stopped by a british army patrol. An event which by his own admission, took place years after the end of the conflict.

- Believes that all that nationalists had to do to achieve what we have today was to have engaged in peaceful protest. He even suggests that this could all have been achieved by 1972. Seemingly blissfully unaware that that was the very same year that Britain shot dead 14 peaceful protesters in Derry. How easy must it be for someone sitting in the comfort and safety of the Free State to insist that more northern Catholics should have risked sacrificing themselves in front of British guns by continuing to rely on peaceful protesting. Maybe Sid thinks Bloody Sunday was a flash in the pan. But a year before Bloody Sunday, a Civil Rights march was attacked by the police and loyalists at Burntollet Bridge. Despite this, they DID do what Sid suggested: they persisted with peaceful protest. A year later 14 of them lay dead.

- Refuses to say why peaceful protest would have worked in 1972 but was not an option in 1919.

- Maintains that the British would have buckled under the pressure of Catholic peaceful protests despite the fact that Britain didn't even buckle under the worldwide condemnation it was faced with after Bloody Sunday. Despite having been asked repeatedly, he has yet to explain how he can believe such a downright stupid notion.

- Seemingly believes that if you murder civilians in a long war then you are morally repugnant, but if you murder a higher proportion of civilians but over a short, intensly savage campaign, well that's at worst just "a grey area" morally.

- Seemingly believes that if you regard an armed campaign as having been justifiable, that you then must therefor believe every action within that campaign was morally acceptable and justifiable. For this reason, he played the favourite game of many Free Staters - victim bingo - and pulled the names of a few IRA murder victims out of the air and proclaimed that because I believe the IRA campaign itself was morally justifiable, that I must by extension, believe those murders were justified. Curiously, though, he refuses to condemn the Old IRA campaign. By his own twisted logic, surely that would mean he too must believe their murders of civilians were all justified too? Can you have it both ways?

- Attacks posters disagreeing with him for making straw man arguments and being "dishonest posters" despite going so far as to repeatedly accuse me of supporting the murdering of civilians and refusing to post any evidence whatsoever to substantiate this outrageous and sick lie.

- Most pathetically and shamefully of all, blames the IRA for the loyalist murder of Sean Brown, thereby absolving the loyalists/ states agents who did it, from responsibility.
To call that a poorly written pile of shit, full of lies would be a gross understatement

The rantings of a madman

And that, sadly, sums up the pro-PIRA position on this board
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:08:48 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 11:23:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:37:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.
Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin








Do those, like yourself, who celebrate/justify the sectarian murders carried out by the Old IRA have a position on this coin at all?
I don't celebrate any murders carried out by the old IRA, never mind sectarian ones

Murder is not a thing to be celebrated

It must be great to live in a straw man version of reality

When you feel outpointed, just lie about the person you're debating with

Over and over and over we see it from SF supporters

I have sod all time for Fine Gael but their supporters can at least mostly debate honestly

SF supporters just throw the toys out of the pram and lie flat out, no compunction about doing so, it's pure Trump

And that's the way they've been conditioned by the party, which operates along the lines of a cult

The only person throwing toys out and creating straw men is yourself.

You've tried multiple times in the past few hours alone - and that is only in your interactions with me.

But it easily seen through.

And then we have the inevitable Sinn Fein claptrap.

This is where you (and so many 'outside' experts) give yourself away as having no understanding of the mindset of the northern nationalist.  Your automatic assumption is that anyone who will not condemn the entire PIRA campaign is a staunch SF supporter and by extension, a party crony.  Which is so far from the truth in reality.  But you and your ilk cannot help but see these things in black and white... you don't grasp the intricacies of it whatsoever.  You can regurgitate as many lines as you want from books you've read about North, but once you come out with that line, I immediately know that you have no grasp of what you are talking about, despite the regard in which you may hold your own opinion.

But it is easy to see how someone fed on a childhood diet of state censored news would believe that this is how things are here.

I have voted SF in the past, but I have also given 1st preference votes to SDLP, Alliance and various Independents.

But I don't condemn entirely the actions of the PIRA.

Just as you have refused to condemn the actions of the old IRA and indeed have offered many justifications/mitigations for such actions.

I can re-post these for you if you need reminding.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:11:48 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:07:12 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 11:37:31 PM
A quick summation of Sid and his position:

- Insists that the PIRA campaign was "a mass murder campaign" but the Old IRA campaign, which involved a higher proportion of civilian killings, was not.

- Claims that the Old IRA campaign had a mandate despite the SF manifesto in 1918 not making any reference to starting a war.

- Argues that the PIRA campaign was about murdering civlians even though it's been spelled out to him that the overwhelming majority of IRA operations were directed against security forces and commerical targets.

- Believes that dissidents today are operating in the same societal conditions for Catholics/nationalists as the PIRA did.

- Believes that the British Government wiillingly and enthusiastically engaged in peace negotiations without having been forced into it and that the RUC was disbanded apparently just thanks to the generosity of spirit of British negotiators when nationalists peacefully asked for the force to be discontinued.

- Maintains he understands the reality of day-to-day life in the north throughout the conflict because he was once (Yip. Once.) stopped by a british army patrol. An event which by his own admission, took place years after the end of the conflict.

- Believes that all that nationalists had to do to achieve what we have today was to have engaged in peaceful protest. He even suggests that this could all have been achieved by 1972. Seemingly blissfully unaware that that was the very same year that Britain shot dead 14 peaceful protesters in Derry. How easy must it be for someone sitting in the comfort and safety of the Free State to insist that more northern Catholics should have risked sacrificing themselves in front of British guns by continuing to rely on peaceful protesting. Maybe Sid thinks Bloody Sunday was a flash in the pan. But a year before Bloody Sunday, a Civil Rights march was attacked by the police and loyalists at Burntollet Bridge. Despite this, they DID do what Sid suggested: they persisted with peaceful protest. A year later 14 of them lay dead.

- Refuses to say why peaceful protest would have worked in 1972 but was not an option in 1919.

- Maintains that the British would have buckled under the pressure of Catholic peaceful protests despite the fact that Britain didn't even buckle under the worldwide condemnation it was faced with after Bloody Sunday. Despite having been asked repeatedly, he has yet to explain how he can believe such a downright stupid notion.

- Seemingly believes that if you murder civilians in a long war then you are morally repugnant, but if you murder a higher proportion of civilians but over a short, intensly savage campaign, well that's at worst just "a grey area" morally.

- Seemingly believes that if you regard an armed campaign as having been justifiable, that you then must therefor believe every action within that campaign was morally acceptable and justifiable. For this reason, he played the favourite game of many Free Staters - victim bingo - and pulled the names of a few IRA murder victims out of the air and proclaimed that because I believe the IRA campaign itself was morally justifiable, that I must by extension, believe those murders were justified. Curiously, though, he refuses to condemn the Old IRA campaign. By his own twisted logic, surely that would mean he too must believe their murders of civilians were all justified too? Can you have it both ways?

- Attacks posters disagreeing with him for making straw man arguments and being "dishonest posters" despite going so far as to repeatedly accuse me of supporting the murdering of civilians and refusing to post any evidence whatsoever to substantiate this outrageous and sick lie.

- Most pathetically and shamefully of all, blames the IRA for the loyalist murder of Sean Brown, thereby absolving the loyalists/ states agents who did it, from responsibility.
To call that a poorly written pile of shit, full of lies would be a gross understatement

The rantings of a madman

And that, sadly, sums up the pro-PIRA position on this board

It's not in any way inaccurate, it's exactly right

You made zero effort to say why you think the post is disgraceful, zero effort to engage

And therefore your post has zero merit or credibility

You've no right to stop people voicing opinions and facts and truths you don't like
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:11:54 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 11:50:20 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 14, 2020, 11:41:09 PM
Encapsulates the deluded tosser perfectly.

Well you say that, Red Hand, but apparently it was actually me who made you post that (using mind control I assume).

After all, Sid (the fella who is adamant that he dislikes dishonest posters and straw man arguments) this morning posted an accusation that when anyone leaves a post agreeing with something I've written, that I somehow made them do it.

Seems straw men only upset him when they are built by others.
No, I wrote a post to the effect that there is a circle jerk full of Shinners on this forum, who continually back each others infantile nonsense up with aggressive, playground bully style posts, and that point has been borne out beautifully

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:15:34 AM
You are still avoiding answering my earlier questions, by the way.

Which is very telling.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:24:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:08:48 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 11:23:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:37:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.
Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin








Do those, like yourself, who celebrate/justify the sectarian murders carried out by the Old IRA have a position on this coin at all?
I don't celebrate any murders carried out by the old IRA, never mind sectarian ones

Murder is not a thing to be celebrated

It must be great to live in a straw man version of reality

When you feel outpointed, just lie about the person you're debating with

Over and over and over we see it from SF supporters

I have sod all time for Fine Gael but their supporters can at least mostly debate honestly

SF supporters just throw the toys out of the pram and lie flat out, no compunction about doing so, it's pure Trump

And that's the way they've been conditioned by the party, which operates along the lines of a cult

The only person throwing toys out and creating straw men is yourself.

You've tried multiple times in the past few hours alone - and that is only in your interactions with me.

But it easily seen through.

And then we have the inevitable Sinn Fein claptrap.

This is where you (and so many 'outside' experts) give yourself away as having no understanding of the mindset of the northern nationalist.  Your automatic assumption is that anyone who will not condemn the entire PIRA campaign is a staunch SF supporter and by extension, a party crony.  Which is so far from the truth in reality.  But you and your ilk cannot help but see these things in black and white... you don't grasp the intricacies of it whatsoever.  You can regurgitate as many lines as you want from books you've read about North, but once you come out with that line, I immediately know that you have no grasp of what you are talking about, despite the regard in which you may hold your own opinion.

But it is easy to see how someone fed on a childhood diet of state censored news would believe that this is how things are here.

I have voted SF in the past, but I have also given 1st preference votes to SDLP, Alliance and various Independents.

But I don't condemn entirely the actions of the PIRA.

Just as you have refused to condemn the actions of the old IRA and indeed have offered many justifications/mitigations for such actions.

I can re-post these for you if you need reminding.
I have voted SF in the past, which is why I can see through the bullshit, for a while I had even fooled myself into believing some of it

The Northern nationalist mindset is not a monolith and that's something you don't understand

But what is undoubtedly true is that the PIRA's campaign was rejected at the ballot box by the majority of nationalist voters

Shinner cliche central when you talk about "state censored news", all you're missing is an anti-vaxx conspiracy

Looks like you've fed yourself a diet of Shinner censored news

Here's another thing, given the level of hatred for "free staters" on this forum, I'm surprised youse lot want to join up with us at all, seems like yis hate us more than yis hate themmuns

Attitudes like yours and others here certainly won't help in any future referendum on a united Ireland in the Republic, I could imagine them turning a lot of people off

Luckily for you I won't be one of those people if and when the time does come to vote


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:25:51 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:15:34 AM
You are still avoiding answering my earlier questions, by the way.

Which is very telling.
What questions?

I've asked umpteen questions of Shinners today and every single one has gone unanswered

Sinn Fein supporters don't do answers

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:28:17 AM
Let's go through some PIRA atrocities and see what justifications can be made

Let's start with Enniskillen

What was the justification?

As Bono said, f**k the revolution

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:46:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:24:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:08:48 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 11:23:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:37:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.
Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin








Do those, like yourself, who celebrate/justify the sectarian murders carried out by the Old IRA have a position on this coin at all?
I don't celebrate any murders carried out by the old IRA, never mind sectarian ones

Murder is not a thing to be celebrated

It must be great to live in a straw man version of reality

When you feel outpointed, just lie about the person you're debating with

Over and over and over we see it from SF supporters

I have sod all time for Fine Gael but their supporters can at least mostly debate honestly

SF supporters just throw the toys out of the pram and lie flat out, no compunction about doing so, it's pure Trump

And that's the way they've been conditioned by the party, which operates along the lines of a cult

The only person throwing toys out and creating straw men is yourself.

You've tried multiple times in the past few hours alone - and that is only in your interactions with me.

But it easily seen through.

And then we have the inevitable Sinn Fein claptrap.

This is where you (and so many 'outside' experts) give yourself away as having no understanding of the mindset of the northern nationalist.  Your automatic assumption is that anyone who will not condemn the entire PIRA campaign is a staunch SF supporter and by extension, a party crony.  Which is so far from the truth in reality.  But you and your ilk cannot help but see these things in black and white... you don't grasp the intricacies of it whatsoever.  You can regurgitate as many lines as you want from books you've read about North, but once you come out with that line, I immediately know that you have no grasp of what you are talking about, despite the regard in which you may hold your own opinion.

But it is easy to see how someone fed on a childhood diet of state censored news would believe that this is how things are here.

I have voted SF in the past, but I have also given 1st preference votes to SDLP, Alliance and various Independents.

But I don't condemn entirely the actions of the PIRA.

Just as you have refused to condemn the actions of the old IRA and indeed have offered many justifications/mitigations for such actions.

I can re-post these for you if you need reminding.
I have voted SF in the past, which is why I can see through the bullshit, for a while I had even fooled myself into believing some of it

The Northern nationalist mindset is not a monolith and that's something you don't understand

But what is undoubtedly true is that the PIRA's campaign was rejected at the ballot box by the majority of nationalist voters

Shinner cliche central when you talk about "state censored news", all you're missing is an anti-vaxx conspiracy

Looks like you've fed yourself a diet of Shinner censored news

Here's another thing, given the level of hatred for "free staters" on this forum, I'm surprised youse lot want to join up with us at all, seems like yis hate us more than yis hate themmuns

Attitudes like yours and others here certainly won't help in any future referendum on a united Ireland in the Republic, I could imagine them turning a lot of people off

Luckily for you I won't be one of those people if and when the time does come to vote

Correct.  It is absolutely not.  There is an entire spectrum of views involved.  And across that spectrum, there will be infinitely varying opinions on the PIRA campaign, from absolute support, to absolute revulsion and everything in between.

That is something that plenty of people of your mindset don't (or won't) understand, so when you come across someone who won't condemn outright the activities of the PIRA - you stick your fingers in your ears and shout about shinnerbots.  You have no appreciation for the nuance, so you revert to this same infantile position.  It belies a lack of understanding/ability and undermines your credibility.

But it is understandable, since any fact based debate exposes the absolute hypocrisy of those who revere the actions Old IRA, but are somehow repulsed by those of the Provos.

And as for my comment about state censored media - that's no soundbyte - that's EXACTLY what it was.  Your inability to refute this with facts and your subsequent recourse to more peurile nonsense about 'Shinners' is an absolutely perfect illustration of what I am talking about above.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:50:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:25:51 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:15:34 AM
You are still avoiding answering my earlier questions, by the way.

Which is very telling.
What questions?

I've asked umpteen questions of Shinners today and every single one has gone unanswered

Sinn Fein supporters don't do answers

https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=15128.msg2017088#msg2017088
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:46:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:24:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:08:48 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 11:23:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 10:37:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.
Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin








Do those, like yourself, who celebrate/justify the sectarian murders carried out by the Old IRA have a position on this coin at all?
I don't celebrate any murders carried out by the old IRA, never mind sectarian ones

Murder is not a thing to be celebrated

It must be great to live in a straw man version of reality

When you feel outpointed, just lie about the person you're debating with

Over and over and over we see it from SF supporters

I have sod all time for Fine Gael but their supporters can at least mostly debate honestly

SF supporters just throw the toys out of the pram and lie flat out, no compunction about doing so, it's pure Trump

And that's the way they've been conditioned by the party, which operates along the lines of a cult

The only person throwing toys out and creating straw men is yourself.

You've tried multiple times in the past few hours alone - and that is only in your interactions with me.

But it easily seen through.

And then we have the inevitable Sinn Fein claptrap.

This is where you (and so many 'outside' experts) give yourself away as having no understanding of the mindset of the northern nationalist.  Your automatic assumption is that anyone who will not condemn the entire PIRA campaign is a staunch SF supporter and by extension, a party crony.  Which is so far from the truth in reality.  But you and your ilk cannot help but see these things in black and white... you don't grasp the intricacies of it whatsoever.  You can regurgitate as many lines as you want from books you've read about North, but once you come out with that line, I immediately know that you have no grasp of what you are talking about, despite the regard in which you may hold your own opinion.

But it is easy to see how someone fed on a childhood diet of state censored news would believe that this is how things are here.

I have voted SF in the past, but I have also given 1st preference votes to SDLP, Alliance and various Independents.

But I don't condemn entirely the actions of the PIRA.

Just as you have refused to condemn the actions of the old IRA and indeed have offered many justifications/mitigations for such actions.

I can re-post these for you if you need reminding.
I have voted SF in the past, which is why I can see through the bullshit, for a while I had even fooled myself into believing some of it

The Northern nationalist mindset is not a monolith and that's something you don't understand

But what is undoubtedly true is that the PIRA's campaign was rejected at the ballot box by the majority of nationalist voters

Shinner cliche central when you talk about "state censored news", all you're missing is an anti-vaxx conspiracy

Looks like you've fed yourself a diet of Shinner censored news

Here's another thing, given the level of hatred for "free staters" on this forum, I'm surprised youse lot want to join up with us at all, seems like yis hate us more than yis hate themmuns

Attitudes like yours and others here certainly won't help in any future referendum on a united Ireland in the Republic, I could imagine them turning a lot of people off

Luckily for you I won't be one of those people if and when the time does come to vote

Correct.  It is absolutely not.  There is an entire spectrum of views involved.  And across that spectrum, there will be infinitely varying opinions on the PIRA campaign, from absolute support, to absolute revulsion and everything in between.

That is something that plenty of people of your mindset don't (or won't) understand, so when you come across someone who won't condemn outright the activities of the PIRA - you stick your fingers in your ears and shout about shinnerbots.  You have no appreciation for the nuance, so you revert to this same infantile position.  It belies a lack of understanding/ability and undermines your credibility.

But it is understandable, since any fact based debate exposes the absolute hypocrisy of those who revere the actions Old IRA, but are somehow repulsed by those of the Provos.

And as for my comment about state censored media - that's no soundbyte - that's EXACTLY what it was.  Your inability to refute this with facts and your subsequent recourse to more peurile nonsense about 'Shinners' is an absolutely perfect illustration of what I am talking about above.
So how did Rory O'Connor sucking into a helium balloon to sound less credible justify La Mon, Kingsmills, Claudy, Enniskillen Warrington?

The answer is: it didn't

You have "nuance" for a 28 year campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part and which on the whole brought societal devastation

And yet you expect others to be totally black and white in their condemnation of British and Loyalist atrocities

Sure why don't you point out the "good" aspects of the war in Iraq or the war in Bosnia then?

The truth hurts

Your fake offence at the term "Shinners", a term which Shinners themselves even use, while at the same time you accuse somebody who disagrees with you of being on drugs, is noted

And you once again resort to lies about my views on the old IRA

By the way, Sinn Fein have had every opportunity to tell their side of the story in the media for the last 27 years, and they've failed utterly in any real sense to explain what it was they were doing

Why? Because they can't defend the indefensible
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 01:38:03 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:50:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:25:51 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:15:34 AM
You are still avoiding answering my earlier questions, by the way.

Which is very telling.
What questions?

I've asked umpteen questions of Shinners today and every single one has gone unanswered

Sinn Fein supporters don't do answers

https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=15128.msg2017088#msg2017088
You apply a Northern Ireland 1969 standard there, it's apples and oranges

And the irony is your post there actually reads as a manifesto for why the Catholic population of NI should not have armed itself in 1969 and not fought back in any way

The black community's democratic mandate to arm themselves is the second amendment

And that should be enough

They can legally protest

They can negotiate with police chiefs

The knowledge of them being organised and legally armed means they're less likely to be attacked by police and means there's a greater chance of police modifying their behaviour through negotiation

They can build political support for the idea of black armament

You could set up a black version of the NRA

Civil disobedience is a powerful tool of negotiation

The police already intern black people by the million, it's not as if they're not doing that already, it's called the criminal justice system, which is the problem

US police already shoot unarmed black people dead by the truckful

The idea of legally arming yourself is one idea among a range of strategies available

Plenty of work would need to be done on the exact strategy but it would be completely legitimate under the US constitution

The whites do it, and they have power through doing it, so why shouldn't the blacks?

The Black Panther party actually resulted in California implementing some of the most stringent gun control in the US

Something needs to change, anyway

This is one possible way of doing it

And certainly if the white population has the right to arm itself, the black population has the moral right to do so
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:51:26 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:28:17 AM
Let's go through some PIRA atrocities and see what justifications can be made

Let's start with Enniskillen

What was the justification?

As Bono said, f**k the revolution

See, one of the points I made in my post (the one you refuse to engage with and dismissed as rubbish even though I could post quotes to back up every claim I made about you) was that you repeatedly attempt to play victim bingo. You take single instances and argue that if you support the legitimacy of the IRA campaign in general, then by extension, you must support every action within that campaign. As a proposition, it's inherently stupid. I've repeatedly attempted to demonstrate that by turning it on you given your belief in the legitimacy of the Old IRA campaign, especially given that it was a campaign which saw a higher proportion of civilian killings. I'll do so again:

If somone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA camapign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 08:01:38 AM
Once again Sid is the only person who has tried to diminish or justify the murder of civilians here.

He's an unintelligent troll and best ignored. The last few pages has been him morphing into his zealot Donald Trump mode. The mask really slips when he loses the temper and the posts about Sean Browne were disgusting.

Free Staters have absolutely no right to comment on the troubles and no right to use victims to score points.

Their government watched on and did nothing as the nationalist community were beaten, attacked and discriminated against by the state but yet he feels morally superior. There is without a very noticeable element on this board of Free Staters who openly resent northern nationalists. They have a lot in common with unionism.

People who become experts behind computer screens rather than their life experiences.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seaney on December 15, 2020, 08:05:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 08:01:38 AM
Once again Sid is the only person who has tried to diminish or justify the murder of civilians here.

He's an unintelligent troll and best ignored. The last few pages has been him morphing into his zealot Donald Trump mode. The mask really slips when he loses the temper and the posts about Sean Browne were disgusting.

Free Staters have absolutely no right to comment on the troubles and no right to use victims to score points.

Their government watched on and did nothing as the nationalist community were beaten, attacked and discriminated against by the state but yet he feels morally superior. There is without a very noticeable element on this board of Free Staters who openly resent northern nationalists. They have a lot in common with unionism.

People who become experts behind computer screens rather than their life experiences.

Nail on head, these folk had no interest in their fellow Irishmen then or now - the level of moral superiority these keyboard warriors have about something they could know nothing about is pathetic at the very least, the Sid guy has serious mental health issues and Rossfan is no better. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on December 15, 2020, 08:21:41 AM
Always reminds a little of this chap when the pontification starts

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DNl1tvLx__JA&ved=2ahUKEwiqyo35xc_tAhWRYcAKHQdQBcoQwqsBMAB6BAgBEAM&usg=AOvVaw3nPn2lSDxUZVkUSp4mOv4c&cshid=1608020208956
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:51:26 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:28:17 AM
Let's go through some PIRA atrocities and see what justifications can be made

Let's start with Enniskillen

What was the justification?

As Bono said, f**k the revolution

See, one of the points I made in my post (the one you refuse to engage with and dismissed as rubbish even though I could post quotes to back up every claim I made about you) was that you repeatedly attempt to play victim bingo. You take single instances and argue that if you support the legitimacy of the IRA campaign in general, then by extension, you must support every action within that campaign. As a proposition, it's inherently stupid. I've repeatedly attempted to demonstrate that by turning it on you given your belief in the legitimacy of the Old IRA campaign, especially given that it was a campaign which saw a higher proportion of civilian killings. I'll do so again:

If somone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA camapign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?

You see, to you, victims are "bingo"

To you, Sean Brown is "bingo", only useful to you for being able to score political points

Marie Wilson is "bingo" to you

Jonathan Ball is "bingo" to you

They aren't real people

And that's the ideology that led to 28 years of mass murder

And when you scratch the surface, it's the core of Sinn Fein

You can't even bring yourself to condemn the mass murder of Enniskillen without resorting to whataboutery

That's psychopathy

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:54:31 AM
Quote from: Seaney on December 15, 2020, 08:05:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 08:01:38 AM
Once again Sid is the only person who has tried to diminish or justify the murder of civilians here.

He's an unintelligent troll and best ignored. The last few pages has been him morphing into his zealot Donald Trump mode. The mask really slips when he loses the temper and the posts about Sean Browne were disgusting.

Free Staters have absolutely no right to comment on the troubles and no right to use victims to score points.

Their government watched on and did nothing as the nationalist community were beaten, attacked and discriminated against by the state but yet he feels morally superior. There is without a very noticeable element on this board of Free Staters who openly resent northern nationalists. They have a lot in common with unionism.

People who become experts behind computer screens rather than their life experiences.

Nail on head, these folk had no interest in their fellow Irishmen then or now - the level of moral superiority these keyboard warriors have about something they could know nothing about is pathetic at the very least, the Sid guy has serious mental health issues and Rossfan is no better.
Do Shinnerbot trolls like the anti-vaxx, Covid denying "Seaney" (hi ArmaghStew) ever wonder why if they hate "Free Staters" so much, they're supporting a party led by Mary Lou McDonald, from Rathgar, ex of Fianna Fail?

Rathgar being one of the most upper class areas in the country, like

Eoin O'Broin went to Blackrock College

By the standards of the Shinnerbots, what would Pearse Doherty know about the North? He didn't have to live there

In the Shinners' own words, their own leadership is clueless about the north

Because they didn't grow up there

The irony keeps giving

Laughable









Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Chief on December 15, 2020, 10:24:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 11:32:06 PM
Quote from: restorepride on December 14, 2020, 10:54:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Shouting "you have no idea what life is like up here" is a non sequitur

A cousin of mine, a Catholic, a civilian with no connections whatsoever to the Brits or the British state, was kidnapped by the PIRA for the crime of working in a bank

Firstly, I do have an idea, a very good idea, I have been extremely interested in the Northern conflict and history for my whole life and visited it more times than I'd care to remember and you don't need to have lived anywhere to know basic, easily identifiable facts about life on the ground

Secondly, the majority of the Catholic population of the North agreed with me - during the Troubles, they voted for the SDLP, not Sinn Fein

Your post effectively says that John Hume, Seamus Mallon, the rest of the SDLP, and the majority of the Catholic population of the six counties did not know what they were talking about

I will say it again - you have no idea what life is like up here. You haven't lived here, vicariously via your cousin doesn't count.

I worked in a Catholic bar around the time of the Greysteel massacre and everyone was bricking themselves but refused to be housebound. Try living in Co Antrim (all of the O6) in those times, you'd have a totally different viewpoint on it. As I said Loyalists and many Unionists would slaughter Catholics if they could and they did at times with British state collusion. A man locking up a GAA ground at night in 1997 (not the 70s) and getting brutally killed like Sean Brown in Bellaghy, these things would exist to this day if they could get away with it.

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being
You are way out of line on this one and clearly out of your depth.  I mean WAY WAY out of line.

The above comment re Sean Brown is totally naive, inaccurate, and insulting to the Brown family and the GAA.

Disgraceful.
It's not in any way inaccurate, it's exactly right

You made zero effort to say why you think my post is disgraceful, zero effort to engage

And therefore your post has zero merit or credibility

You've no right to stop people voicing opinions and facts and truths you don't like

Sid - there was nothing inevitable about that death when placed in the context PIRA ceasefire status.

If you intended to make a point about how breaking the ceasefire made civilian deaths, generally speaking, more inevitable then fine - but the way you called out that specific incident, and painted a straight line from IRA activity to his death I'm sure was crass and hurtful to many.

It also sadly echos Loyalist justifications for such murders - which should be roundly rejected by fair minded people. By providing what you view as the context, you are (again likely unknowingly) giving the perpetrators a degree of cover in the minds of some (e.g. "these things were nasty but  necessary because the IRA were back on the scene")

Deliberately or not, your are deflecting status away from those who need to held truly accountable for that killing, by bringing in actors who had no link to the man in question.

The rest of your comments about SF are fine and part of political debate- they can be debated and talked through (I actually agree with certain percentages) but the Sean Brown comment should be retracted.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:27:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:54:31 AM
Quote from: Seaney on December 15, 2020, 08:05:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 08:01:38 AM
Once again Sid is the only person who has tried to diminish or justify the murder of civilians here.

He's an unintelligent troll and best ignored. The last few pages has been him morphing into his zealot Donald Trump mode. The mask really slips when he loses the temper and the posts about Sean Browne were disgusting.

Free Staters have absolutely no right to comment on the troubles and no right to use victims to score points.

Their government watched on and did nothing as the nationalist community were beaten, attacked and discriminated against by the state but yet he feels morally superior. There is without a very noticeable element on this board of Free Staters who openly resent northern nationalists. They have a lot in common with unionism.

People who become experts behind computer screens rather than their life experiences.

Nail on head, these folk had no interest in their fellow Irishmen then or now - the level of moral superiority these keyboard warriors have about something they could know nothing about is pathetic at the very least, the Sid guy has serious mental health issues and Rossfan is no better.
Do Shinnerbot trolls like the anti-vaxx, Covid denying "Seaney" (hi ArmaghStew) ever wonder why if they hate "Free Staters" so much, they're supporting a party led by Mary Lou McDonald, from Rathgar, ex of Fianna Fail?

Rathgar being one of the most upper class areas in the country, like

Eoin O'Broin went to Blackrock College

By the standards of the Shinnerbots, what would Pearse Doherty know about the North? He didn't have to live there

In the Shinners' own words, their own leadership is clueless about the north

Because they didn't grow up there

The irony keeps giving

Laughable

Have to say this is true and How a growing number of northern republicans feel. Make no mistake about it this is the way forward for SF and slowly but surely northerners will lose grip of the party which is in pursuit of the Holy Grail-power within Dáil Éireann
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 10:48:39 AM
So this is Sid today:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

But curiously, here was Sid yesterday:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
You disagree that those who murdered the workmen at Kingsmills and Joanne Mathers and the people at Enniskillen and the members of the Irish Collie Club and Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry and the people buying fish on the Shankill Road were murdering bastards
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
you decide to carry on fooling yourself that blowing up Marie Wilson, shooting Joanne Mathers and blowing up Jonathan Ball was justified
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
Did you yourself support the murder of Ronan Kerr and the blowing up of Peadar Heffron?
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
And if one attempts to, well, then they're making the moral case for the murder of Ronan Kerr, Lyra McKee and the attempted murder of Peadar Heffron

Yet, apparently I'm the one playing victim bingo to score political points. The mind boggles.



Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You can't even bring yourself to condemn the mass murder of Enniskillen
Of course I can condemn Enniskillen. It was repugnant and morally unjustifiable.

Now, I know I've asked you this umpteen times, but I'll keep asking until you grow a pair and answer:

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 10:54:16 AM
I'd have an awful lot of issues with SF myself and the way they do their business.

However, I view the gutter attacks by the free state establishment on them and the playing political football with victims of the trouble by FFG not as an attack on SF but as an attack on northern nationalists. FFG consistently demean the plight of northern nationalists, pontificate as to how they are morally superior to us when they are anything but.

As I have said, there are a lot of issues I'd have with SF, the direction they are going to and the populism that now drives the party. But when you hear the attacks from FG/FF and SDLP up here, I see it as cheap attacks on Irish nationalism as they focus on the troubles and not SF's policies. And that solidifies an awful lot of people to keep backing SF and will continue to do so.

FFG had no moral compass to do anything when us and particularly are parent's generation were getting discriminated in housing, education, employment - when they were beaten and shot off the streets, harassed on a daily basis. So why do they have the compunction to tell us what is right and wrong when they are happy to stand for that?

Maybe a spell living under British rule as a minority community would enlighten some of the free staters like Sid and Rossfan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 10:55:10 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 10:48:39 AM
So this is Sid today:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

But curiously, here was Sid yesterday:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
You disagree that those who murdered the workmen at Kingsmills and Joanne Mathers and the people at Enniskillen and the members of the Irish Collie Club and Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry and the people buying fish on the Shankill Road were murdering bastards
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
you decide to carry on fooling yourself that blowing up Marie Wilson, shooting Joanne Mathers and blowing up Jonathan Ball was justified
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
Did you yourself support the murder of Ronan Kerr and the blowing up of Peadar Heffron?
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
And if one attempts to, well, then they're making the moral case for the murder of Ronan Kerr, Lyra McKee and the attempted murder of Peadar Heffron

Yet, apparently I'm the one playing victim bingo to score political points. The mind boggles.



Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You can't even bring yourself to condemn the mass murder of Enniskillen
Of course I can condemn Enniskillen. It was repugnant and morally unjustifiable.

Now, I know I've asked you this umpteen times, but I'll keep asking until you grow a pair and answer:

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?

Sid is the only poster I have seen here who has consistently tried to justify the murder of civilians.

And he's the one trying to take the moral high ground.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:02:59 AM
Quote from: Chief on December 15, 2020, 10:24:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 11:32:06 PM
Quote from: restorepride on December 14, 2020, 10:54:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: blasmere on December 14, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
The end of the RUC didn't happen by murdering people, it happened by peaceful negotiation
QuoteJust like the RIC could have? Explain how the RUC could have been disbanded, and at what point? The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't countenance the idea. Neither did Sunngingdale. So you'll need something more convincing than "oh it just would have magically happened if nationalists agitated for it enough or if enough peaceful nationalist protesters got shot dead in the street"
In the exact same way it eventually happened in 2000, by peaceful negotiation

You achieve this by mass political mobilisation and protest, mass sustained civil disobedience, international attention continually being drawn to the plight of Catholic civilians

And even if the RUC hadn't ended until 2000, well you would have been spared the intervening years of murder

Two situations:
i) a hypothetical - 30 years of peaceful Catholic protest and the end of the RUC in 2000
ii) the reality - 28 years of murder, societal devastation and the end of the RUC in 2000

i) is miles better than ii)

Isn't it?

Unlike others on here, I actually agree with some of your stuff on this board, not this thread though. This bit here I'm afraid you have no idea of what life is like up here. If plenty of the unionists had their way catholics would be living in hovels still with little chance of getting out of it. They'd quite happily slaughter catholics if they were able to. The vitriol, if you have ever experienced it which you clearly haven't it, is akin to Trump on speed!
Shouting "you have no idea what life is like up here" is a non sequitur

A cousin of mine, a Catholic, a civilian with no connections whatsoever to the Brits or the British state, was kidnapped by the PIRA for the crime of working in a bank

Firstly, I do have an idea, a very good idea, I have been extremely interested in the Northern conflict and history for my whole life and visited it more times than I'd care to remember and you don't need to have lived anywhere to know basic, easily identifiable facts about life on the ground

Secondly, the majority of the Catholic population of the North agreed with me - during the Troubles, they voted for the SDLP, not Sinn Fein

Your post effectively says that John Hume, Seamus Mallon, the rest of the SDLP, and the majority of the Catholic population of the six counties did not know what they were talking about

I will say it again - you have no idea what life is like up here. You haven't lived here, vicariously via your cousin doesn't count.

I worked in a Catholic bar around the time of the Greysteel massacre and everyone was bricking themselves but refused to be housebound. Try living in Co Antrim (all of the O6) in those times, you'd have a totally different viewpoint on it. As I said Loyalists and many Unionists would slaughter Catholics if they could and they did at times with British state collusion. A man locking up a GAA ground at night in 1997 (not the 70s) and getting brutally killed like Sean Brown in Bellaghy, these things would exist to this day if they could get away with it.

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being
You are way out of line on this one and clearly out of your depth.  I mean WAY WAY out of line.

The above comment re Sean Brown is totally naive, inaccurate, and insulting to the Brown family and the GAA.

Disgraceful.
It's not in any way inaccurate, it's exactly right

You made zero effort to say why you think my post is disgraceful, zero effort to engage

And therefore your post has zero merit or credibility

You've no right to stop people voicing opinions and facts and truths you don't like

Sid - there was nothing inevitable about that death when placed in the context PIRA ceasefire status.

If you intended to make a point about how it made civilian deaths, generally speaking, more inevitable then fine - but the way you called out that specific one, and painted a straight line from IRA activity to his death I'm sure was crass and hurtful to many.

It also sadly echos Loyalist justifications for such murders - which should be roundly rejected by fair minded people. By providing what you view as the context, you are (again likely unknowingly) giving the perpetrators a degree of cover in the minds of some (e.g. "these things were necessary because the IRA were back on the scene")

Deliberately or not, your are deflecting status away from those who need to held truly accountable for that killing, by bringing in actors who had no link to the man in question.

The rest of your comments about SF are fine and part of political debate- they can be debated and talked through (I actually agree with certain percentages) but the Sean Brown comment should be retracted.
Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was incorrect

I have cast zero aspersions on him whatsoever - he was a totally innocent man going about his business who was slaughtered for the "crime" of being a Catholic and a GAA man - and I have correctly apportioned the blame for his slaughter where it lies - with the evil Loyalist scum who did it

Here's the thing - Sinn Fein play the exact game their supporters accuse me of

They actually do legitimise civilian slaughter because of the actions of Unionist, Loyalists and the Brits

And it is true that Unionist and British intransigence and brutality did lead to armed uprising

Violence begets violence begets violence

Murder begets murder begets more murder

But the civilian slaughter carried out by the PIRA is on the heads of the PIRA, like the sectarian slaughter carried out by Loyalist scum is on the heads of Loyalist scum

The question is: when the PIRA bombed Canary Wharf and went back on the warpath, did they think that the Loyalist scum would not then do similar?

Did they seriously think that?

What would have been the rationale for not thinking such?

Did Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and the IRA Army Council, with their 27 years of experience of the conflict and how it worked, seriously think that when that bomb went off, it would not start a chain of events which had the potential to spiral beyond their control, and that innocent Catholic civilians would be some of the people who would suffer as a result of this chain of events?

If they believed that, they would have been naive beyond belief - but they weren't naive - if there was one thing Adams and McGuinness were not, it was naive

Or were the likely deaths of innocent Catholic civilians considered acceptable collateral damage to the Catholic community - the very community Sinn Fein claimed to be protecting - in order for Sinn Fein to gain admission to talks?

The answer would have to be yes, they were

These are the hard questions with hard answers, and they need to be faced up to

The murderers of countless innocent victims like Sean Brown, Catholic victims, were let out under the GFA - people like Torrens Knight, who perpetrated the slaughter of innocents at Greysteel

The release of whom Sinn Fein supported - because they supported the release of their own murderers


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 15, 2020, 11:05:42 AM
Sid you are aware the LVF were targeting innocent Catholics over things like Drumcree and Dublin having a say in NI affairs. It's so much more nuanced than "they're just returning the serve to the Provos". You've shown yourself up so badly on this thread. Time to clock out
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:14:47 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 10:48:39 AM
So this is Sid today:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

But curiously, here was Sid yesterday:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
You disagree that those who murdered the workmen at Kingsmills and Joanne Mathers and the people at Enniskillen and the members of the Irish Collie Club and Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry and the people buying fish on the Shankill Road were murdering bastards
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
you decide to carry on fooling yourself that blowing up Marie Wilson, shooting Joanne Mathers and blowing up Jonathan Ball was justified
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
Did you yourself support the murder of Ronan Kerr and the blowing up of Peadar Heffron?
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
And if one attempts to, well, then they're making the moral case for the murder of Ronan Kerr, Lyra McKee and the attempted murder of Peadar Heffron

Yet, apparently I'm the one playing victim bingo to score political points. The mind boggles.



Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You can't even bring yourself to condemn the mass murder of Enniskillen
Of course I can condemn Enniskillen. It was repugnant and morally unjustifiable.

Now, I know I've asked you this umpteen times, but I'll keep asking until you grow a pair and answer:

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
The difference is - I consider those victims to be real victims with real stories and real pain and agony inflicted on them and their loved ones

You consider them bingo and whataboutery

The core principle of Sinn Fein now, in 2020, is that the IRA were right to do what they did

Dice it up anyway you like - that's the core principle

You cannot be a Sinn Fein member and say that the PIRA's campaign, of which sectarian slaughter was integral part, was morally wrong

You could agree with every one of SF's other policies, but say the RA were wrong, and you're toast

It's not allowed, you'd be fucked out of the party quicksmart

You denied that sectarian slaughter was an integral part of the PIRA's campaign yesterday

You wanted to cherry pick, to whitewash

To you and other Shinners, Joanne Mathers and Marie Wilson and Jonathan Ball are a big incovenience - any time they're mentioned in relation to Sinn Fein, the reaction is always the same - "shut up"

The Sinn Fein narrative is - Sinn Fein can continue to glorify the campaign that killed those victims, but nobody should ever mention the victims


For Shinners, they must be airbrushed from history













Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:34:46 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 15, 2020, 11:05:42 AM
Sid you are aware the LVF were targeting innocent Catholics over things like Drumcree and Dublin having a say in NI affairs. It's so much more nuanced than "they're just returning the serve to the Provos". You've shown yourself up so badly on this thread. Time to clock out
But you're missing the nuance

By bombing Canary Wharf and going back on the warpath - at a time when there had been a peace, an uneasy peace but a peace all the same, the PIRA gave licence to Loyalist scum to start up again - the LVF started up in the summer of 1996

The logic of Loyalists was that they were returning the serve - a twisted, grotesque logic, but everybody knew that was their logic, including Adams and McGuinness

Or are you trying to claim that Adams and McGuinness didn't know that that was their logic?

Would the LVF have come into being had the PIRA not gone back on the warpath in February 1996?

Would the chances of the LVF coming into being have been lessened had the PIRA not gone back on the warpath in February 1996?

The LVF continued for a while after the second PIRA ceasefire - according to some here, that would have been a justification for the IRA to have "returned the serve" - and indeed they did by killing Billy Wright, over who no tears were shed by any reasonable people

But according to the logic of some here, it would have been a justification for ending the second ceasefire for real









Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 11:43:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:34:46 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 15, 2020, 11:05:42 AM
Sid you are aware the LVF were targeting innocent Catholics over things like Drumcree and Dublin having a say in NI affairs. It's so much more nuanced than "they're just returning the serve to the Provos". You've shown yourself up so badly on this thread. Time to clock out
But you're missing the nuance

By bombing Canary Wharf and going back on the warpath - at a time when there had been a peace, an uneasy peace but a peace all the same, the PIRA gave licence to Loyalist scum to start up again - the LVF started up in the summer of 1996

The logic of Loyalists was that they were returning the serve - a twisted, grotesque logic, but everybody knew that was their logic, including Adams and McGuinness

Or are you trying to claim that Adams and McGuinness didn't know that that was their logic?

Would the LVF have come into being had the PIRA not gone back on the warpath in February 1996?

Would the chances of the LVF coming into being have been lessened had the PIRA not gone back on the warpath in February 1996?

The LVF continued for a while after the second PIRA ceasefire - according to some here, that would have been a justification for the IRA to have "returned the serve" - and indeed they did by killing Billy Wright, over who no tears were shed by any reasonable people

But according to the logic of some here, it would have been a justification for ending the second ceasefire for real

Victim blaming now.

You really are a nasty piece of work.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:43:17 AM
Sid Today:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:02:59 AM
Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was incorrect. I have correctly apportioned the blame for his slaughter where it lies

Sid Yesterday:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive

You're a sick, twisted little p***k.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:45:41 AM
I'll keep asking, Sid:

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:49:44 AM
When Boris Johnson became UK Prime Minister, his history of racist comments was rightly brought up

Sinn Feiners pointed to them as evidence that he was not fit to be UK PM

And that would be correct, he isn't fit to be PM

So why then is Sinn Fein's continued glorification of a campaign of which civilian slaughter was an integral part deemed off limits for discussion?

What's the rationale that says that Johnson's history of racism means he's be unfit to be PM, yet also says that anybody who believes Sinn Fein's continued glorification of a campaign in which civilian slaughter was an integral part makes them unfit for government in the Republic, should shut the f**k up?

What's that rationale?

Can anybody explain that total double standard?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Just answer the question Sid.

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:43:17 AM
Sid Today:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:02:59 AM
Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was incorrect. I have correctly apportioned the blame for his slaughter where it lies

Sid Yesterday:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive

You're a sick, twisted little p***k.
Ironically, calling somebody a sick, twisted little p***k because they're asking a hard question you don't want want to answer is the reaction of a sick, twisted little p***k

I've put several hard questions here regarding the ending of the second IRA ceasefire

Answer them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:55:47 AM
Except that you're into your second day of refusing to answer one simple, direct question:

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 12:03:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:55:47 AM
Except that you're into your second day of refusing to answer one simple, direct question:

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?

Sid is the only poster on here who has justified the murder of civilians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Just answer the question Sid.

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
I don't regard the Dunmanway massacre as justifiable in any way

I have a very dim view of war in general and I have no interest whatsoever in glorifying the War of Independence

Sinn Fein do glorify the 28 year PIRA campaign, they continue to glorify it, many posters here glorify it

And civilian slaughter was an integral part of that campaign

You can't shout "Up the RA" as David Cullinane did without glorifying the civilian slaughter

Or do you believe you can?

Have Sinn Fein ever called for bringing the perpetrators of the Enniskillen bomb to justice?

Just like the Loyalist murderers of Sean Brown, those bombers never faced justice, and Sinn Fein must know who they are

Did they ever think of giving up the murderers of Eamonn Collins? Likewise, they must know who they are

There are many graves that remain unquiet

In response to those unquiet graves, Sinn Fein sternly says "sssssssssshhhhhhhh"






Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 12:09:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Just answer the question Sid.

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
I don't regard the Dunmanway massacre as justifiable in any way

I have a very dim view of war in general and I have no interest whatsoever in glorifying the War of Independence

Sinn Fein do glorify the 28 year PIRA campaign, they continue to glorify it, many posters here glorify it

And civilian slaughter was an integral part of that campaign

You can't shout "Up the RA" as David Cullinane did without glorifying the civilian slaughter

Or do you believe you can?

Have Sinn Fein ever called for bringing the perpetrators of the Enniskillen bomb to justice?

Just like the Loyalist murderers of Sean Brown, those bombers never faced justice, and Sinn Fein must know who they are

Did they ever think of giving up the murderers of Eamonn Collins? Likewise, they must know who they are

There are many graves that remain unquiet

Another mass contradiction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:14:24 PM
@Angelo

But it's not!

You support David Cullinane shouting "Up The RA"

You glorify a campaign of which civilian slaughter was an integral part

I don't

You have all the questions to answer in a thread in which you haven't answered a single question put to you - I don't

Should Sinn Fein give up the Enniskillen bombers to justice?

They must know who they are

How can somebody continue to glorify a campaign of which mass civilian murder was an integral part and be fit for government?

Deflection about the 1920s is just that - deflection


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Just answer the question Sid.

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
I don't regard the Dunmanway massacre as justifiable in any way

I have a very dim view of war in general and I have no interest whatsoever in glorifying the War of Independence

Sinn Fein do glorify the 28 year PIRA campaign, they continue to glorify it, many posters here glorify it

You are deliberately trying to blur the lines between war and isolated actions within a war. You have all along implied that if you agreed with the PIRA campaign, that you must therefore believe all actions they carried out during that campaign were justifiable.

I'm merely trying to follow your own logic here. If you believe the Dunmanway Massacre was unjustifiable, by your own terms you must surely then regard the entire Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? You can't have it both ways here.

Similarly, you say that the PIRA campaign was unjustifiable "because civilian slaughter was an integral part of that campaign", then, given that civilian slaughter was an even more prevelant aspect of the Old IRA campaign, can we assume, again, that you regard the Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? Again, you can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Seaney on December 15, 2020, 12:25:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:54:31 AM
Quote from: Seaney on December 15, 2020, 08:05:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 08:01:38 AM
Once again Sid is the only person who has tried to diminish or justify the murder of civilians here.

He's an unintelligent troll and best ignored. The last few pages has been him morphing into his zealot Donald Trump mode. The mask really slips when he loses the temper and the posts about Sean Browne were disgusting.

Free Staters have absolutely no right to comment on the troubles and no right to use victims to score points.

Their government watched on and did nothing as the nationalist community were beaten, attacked and discriminated against by the state but yet he feels morally superior. There is without a very noticeable element on this board of Free Staters who openly resent northern nationalists. They have a lot in common with unionism.

People who become experts behind computer screens rather than their life experiences.

Nail on head, these folk had no interest in their fellow Irishmen then or now - the level of moral superiority these keyboard warriors have about something they could know nothing about is pathetic at the very least, the Sid guy has serious mental health issues and Rossfan is no better.
Do Shinnerbot trolls like the anti-vaxx, Covid denying "Seaney" (hi ArmaghStew) ever wonder why if they hate "Free Staters" so much, they're supporting a party led by Mary Lou McDonald, from Rathgar, ex of Fianna Fail?

Rathgar being one of the most upper class areas in the country, like

Eoin O'Broin went to Blackrock College

By the standards of the Shinnerbots, what would Pearse Doherty know about the North? He didn't have to live there

In the Shinners' own words, their own leadership is clueless about the north

Because they didn't grow up there

The irony keeps giving

Laughable

More lies from the pathological liar, where did I say I was a covid denier or anti-vax, you are making a complete c**k of yourself on this thread, well what's to be expected you do that on all threads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 12:25:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:14:24 PM
@Angelo

But it's not!

You support David Cullinane shouting "Up The RA"

You glorify a campaign of which civilian slaughter was an integral part

I don't

You have all the questions to answer in a thread in which you haven't answered a single question put to you - I don't

Should Sinn Fein give up the Enniskillen bombers to justice?

They must know who they are

How can somebody continue to glorify a campaign of which mass civilian murder was an integral part and be fit for government?

Deflection about the 1920s is just that - deflection

I'm not the one deflecting about the 1920s.

I'm the one showing you up for the nasty little hypocrite you are. The parties of the free state have glorified mass civilian murder all through the state's history so what is new about it? You are a hypocrite, your faux-outrage will not wash as we can see you possess little moral fibre when it comes to you addressing that. You are the only poster on here who has justified the murder of civilians, the only one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:26:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:49:44 AM
When Boris Johnson became UK Prime Minister, his history of racist comments was rightly brought up

Sinn Feiners pointed to them as evidence that he was not fit to be UK PM

And that would be correct, he isn't fit to be PM

So why then is Sinn Fein's continued glorification of a campaign of which civilian slaughter was an integral part deemed off limits for discussion?

What's the rationale that says that Johnson's history of racism means he's be unfit to be PM, yet also says that anybody who believes Sinn Fein's continued glorification of a campaign in which civilian slaughter was an integral part makes them unfit for government in the Republic, should shut the f**k up?

What's that rationale?

Can anybody explain that total double standard?

And hey presto.... we're back to where we started in this entire discussion.

If you are going to have this discussion for SF, it is equally valid to point your moral compass in the direction of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

This is the bit you and many of our 26 county folk struggle with.

You've waffled for days now but you've yet to address this core point.

And you can't - because it's impossible to do this and retain any shred of moral consistency.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:29:50 PM
Blueshirts still on the offensive

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pressure-on-sfs-browne-to-address-comments-on-911-and-nazis-39864455.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 12:35:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:29:50 PM
Blueshirts still on the offensive

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pressure-on-sfs-browne-to-address-comments-on-911-and-nazis-39864455.html

Well they wouldn't want people thinking about student nurses now would they? Especially not when they've just voted through a pay rise for themselves. The Dead Cat Strategy as always.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 02:21:04 PM
I see Varadkar throwing a whistleblower under the bus has been swept under the rug by the media again.

Nasty culture with FG when it comes to whistleblowers.

Maurice McCabe
The HSE guy
And now the prison guy

All hung out to dry by FG.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on December 15, 2020, 02:37:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 02:21:04 PM
I see Varadkar throwing a whistleblower under the bus has been swept under the rug by the media again.

Nasty culture with FG when it comes to whistleblowers.

Maurice McCabe
The HSE guy
And now the prison guy

All hung out to dry by FG.

What time do you clock off?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 05:53:34 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Just answer the question Sid.

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
I don't regard the Dunmanway massacre as justifiable in any way

I have a very dim view of war in general and I have no interest whatsoever in glorifying the War of Independence

Sinn Fein do glorify the 28 year PIRA campaign, they continue to glorify it, many posters here glorify it

You are deliberately trying to blur the lines between war and isolated actions within a war. You have all along implied that if you agreed with the PIRA campaign, that you must therefore believe all actions they carried out during that campaign were justifiable.

I'm merely trying to follow your own logic here. If you believe the Dunmanway Massacre was unjustifiable, by your own terms you must surely then regard the entire Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? You can't have it both ways here.

Similarly, you say that the PIRA campaign was unjustifiable "because civilian slaughter was an integral part of that campaign", then, given that civilian slaughter was an even more prevelant aspect of the Old IRA campaign, can we assume, again, that you regard the Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? Again, you can't have it both ways.
Again, you're totally deflecting - I'm not the person glorifying killing people, you and the likes of Angelo are

Youse are the people that have to answer the questions

The IRA killed 644 civilians

They killed 638 British Army or UDR

They killed a miserly 28 Loyalists - the very people who were terrorising their communities

So tell us again how they were "protecting their communities"?

They were in me hole protecting their communities, they were sucking them into a three decades long spiral of death and destruction

Pied pipers

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 06:10:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 15, 2020, 12:26:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 11:49:44 AM
When Boris Johnson became UK Prime Minister, his history of racist comments was rightly brought up

Sinn Feiners pointed to them as evidence that he was not fit to be UK PM

And that would be correct, he isn't fit to be PM

So why then is Sinn Fein's continued glorification of a campaign of which civilian slaughter was an integral part deemed off limits for discussion?

What's the rationale that says that Johnson's history of racism means he's be unfit to be PM, yet also says that anybody who believes Sinn Fein's continued glorification of a campaign in which civilian slaughter was an integral part makes them unfit for government in the Republic, should shut the f**k up?

What's that rationale?

Can anybody explain that total double standard?

And hey presto.... we're back to where we started in this entire discussion.

If you are going to have this discussion for SF, it is equally valid to point your moral compass in the direction of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

This is the bit you and many of our 26 county folk struggle with.

You've waffled for days now but you've yet to address this core point.

And you can't - because it's impossible to do this and retain any shred of moral consistency.

You don't get it, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael do not act as cults, they tolerate different opinions

Only Sinn Fein requires their members to glorify a three decades long campaign of which mass civilian murder was an integral part

If you don't subscribe to such a cultish view, you can't be in Sinn Fein

If you really do believe what you and others here believe, that's a carte blanche for dissidents, who can claim the exact same justification as the PIRA claimed

That's total hypocrisy

Sinn Fein may say individual acts are "wrong" - a classic non-apology apology, but they never expressed an ounce of regret

Sinn Fein are outraged about the lack of British inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane - rightly so

Yet they could easily give up the Enniskillen bombers to justice, they know who they are

So much more hypocrisy, and it always comes back to one thing - protecting and glorifying murder

What's another glaring hypocrisy is the ultra-partitionist nature of who you think is eligible to talk about the Troubles

That rules out Rathgar's Mary Lou McDonald and Blackrock's Eoin O'Broin, so


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 06:12:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 02:21:04 PM
I see Varadkar throwing a whistleblower under the bus has been swept under the rug by the media again.

Nasty culture with FG when it comes to whistleblowers.

Maurice McCabe
The HSE guy
And now the prison guy

All hung out to dry by FG.
How were PIRA whistleblowers treated?

Stabbed 20 times in the face and backed over by a car to prevent an open coffin, that's how
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:20:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 05:53:34 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Just answer the question Sid.

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
I don't regard the Dunmanway massacre as justifiable in any way

I have a very dim view of war in general and I have no interest whatsoever in glorifying the War of Independence

Sinn Fein do glorify the 28 year PIRA campaign, they continue to glorify it, many posters here glorify it

You are deliberately trying to blur the lines between war and isolated actions within a war. You have all along implied that if you agreed with the PIRA campaign, that you must therefore believe all actions they carried out during that campaign were justifiable.

I'm merely trying to follow your own logic here. If you believe the Dunmanway Massacre was unjustifiable, by your own terms you must surely then regard the entire Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? You can't have it both ways here.

Similarly, you say that the PIRA campaign was unjustifiable "because civilian slaughter was an integral part of that campaign", then, given that civilian slaughter was an even more prevelant aspect of the Old IRA campaign, can we assume, again, that you regard the Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? Again, you can't have it both ways.
Again, you're totally deflecting - I'm not the person glorifying killing people, you and the likes of Angelo are

Youse are the people that have to answer the questions

The IRA killed 644 civilians

They killed 638 British Army or UDR

They killed a miserly 28 Loyalists - the very people who were terrorising their communities

So tell us again how they were "protecting their communities"?

They were in me hole protecting their communities, they were sucking them into a three decades long spiral of death and destruction

Pied pipers

And yet you still won't square the circle: If killing civilians is enough to make you condemn the PIRA campaign, surely you'll have no problem condemning the Old IRA campaign, given that they targetted a higher proportion of civilians.

So lets hear you do so, once and for all....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 06:29:51 PM
Mr Stanley has made his apology to the Dáil (on Ms McDonald's orders I presume).
I take it praising Provo actions are now off the agenda for SF TDs?
Meanwhile tomorrow marks the 37th Anniversary of the killing of those 2  servants of the Independent Irish State Patrick Kelly and Gary Sheehan by people engaged in the crime of kidnapping.
Hard to see how that advanced or improved the lot of the Catholic/Nationalist people in the 6 Cos.
Ditto re Frank Hand, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe.......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 15, 2020, 06:35:22 PM
Sid's demented waffling  is selective gobshitery, the character is probably just one of O'Neill's aliases, almost the perfect design of a loudmouth permanently placed on a soapbox.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 06:29:51 PM
Mr Stanley has made his apology to the Dáil (on Ms McDonald's orders I presume).
I take it praising Provo actions are now off the agenda for SF TDs?
Meanwhile tomorrow marks the 37th Anniversary of the killing of those 2  servants of the Independent Irish State Patrick Kelly and Gary Sheehan by people engaged in the crime of kidnapping.
Hard to see how that advanced or improved the lot of the Catholic/Nationalist people in the 6 Cos.
Ditto re Frank Hand, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe.......

Roll up, roll up...it's Victim Bingo time
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 06:35:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 06:12:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 02:21:04 PM
I see Varadkar throwing a whistleblower under the bus has been swept under the rug by the media again.

Nasty culture with FG when it comes to whistleblowers.

Maurice McCabe
The HSE guy
And now the prison guy

All hung out to dry by FG.
How were PIRA whistleblowers treated?

Stabbed 20 times in the face and backed over by a car to prevent an open coffin, that's how

It's a bit like how FF and FG did back in the day too.

Hypocrite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 06:29:51 PM
Mr Stanley has made his apology to the Dáil (on Ms McDonald's orders I presume).
I take it praising Provo actions are now off the agenda for SF TDs?
Meanwhile tomorrow marks the 37th Anniversary of the killing of those 2  servants of the Independent Irish State Patrick Kelly and Gary Sheehan by people engaged in the crime of kidnapping.
Hard to see how that advanced or improved the lot of the Catholic/Nationalist people in the 6 Cos.
Ditto re Frank Hand, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe.......

Michael Lynagh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:37:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 06:35:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 06:12:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 02:21:04 PM
I see Varadkar throwing a whistleblower under the bus has been swept under the rug by the media again.

Nasty culture with FG when it comes to whistleblowers.

Maurice McCabe
The HSE guy
And now the prison guy

All hung out to dry by FG.
How were PIRA whistleblowers treated?

Stabbed 20 times in the face and backed over by a car to prevent an open coffin, that's how

It's a bit like how FF and FG did back in the day too.

Hypocrite.
Yeah but that's why he unequivocally condemns the Old IRA campaign.

Oh wait...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 06:53:33 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 06:29:51 PM
Mr Stanley has made his apology to the Dáil (on Ms McDonald's orders I presume).
I take it praising Provo actions are now off the agenda for SF TDs?
Meanwhile tomorrow marks the 37th Anniversary of the killing of those 2  servants of the Independent Irish State Patrick Kelly and Gary Sheehan by people engaged in the crime of kidnapping.
Hard to see how that advanced or improved the lot of the Catholic/Nationalist people in the 6 Cos.
Ditto re Frank Hand, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe.......

Roll up, roll up...it's Victim Bingo time
Says it all that you think murder is a suitable subject for glib comments.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 15, 2020, 06:56:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 06:53:33 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 06:29:51 PM
Mr Stanley has made his apology to the Dáil (on Ms McDonald's orders I presume).
I take it praising Provo actions are now off the agenda for SF TDs?
Meanwhile tomorrow marks the 37th Anniversary of the killing of those 2  servants of the Independent Irish State Patrick Kelly and Gary Sheehan by people engaged in the crime of kidnapping.
Hard to see how that advanced or improved the lot of the Catholic/Nationalist people in the 6 Cos.
Ditto re Frank Hand, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe.......

Roll up, roll up...it's Victim Bingo time
Says it all that you think murder is a suitable subject for glib comments.

That's what your establishment parties do. Use victims of the troubles as political footballs to score points. While deliberately trying to frustrate families of victims getting justice.

Of course your faux outrage is easily noticed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 15, 2020, 06:57:06 PM
When Fine Gael/Varadkar  thought they needed to look a bit greener to the southern electorate, they sent Varadkar up to Belfast to be photgraphed with the Shinners at the Feile.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-is-greeted-by-sinn-fein-northern-leader-as-picture-id969796230?s=2048x2048)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 07:02:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 06:53:33 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 06:29:51 PM
Mr Stanley has made his apology to the Dáil (on Ms McDonald's orders I presume).
I take it praising Provo actions are now off the agenda for SF TDs?
Meanwhile tomorrow marks the 37th Anniversary of the killing of those 2  servants of the Independent Irish State Patrick Kelly and Gary Sheehan by people engaged in the crime of kidnapping.
Hard to see how that advanced or improved the lot of the Catholic/Nationalist people in the 6 Cos.
Ditto re Frank Hand, Seamus Quaid, Jerry McCabe.......

Roll up, roll up...it's Victim Bingo time
Says it all that you think murder is a suitable subject for glib comments.
No, more of a satirical comment directed at showing how your pretence of care for victims is utterly shallow given that you merely selected random names, devoid of any context beyond having a lazy pop at Sinn Féin. Do you seriously think anyone believes you give a toss about the victims you mentioned beyond how 'useful' they are for point scoring? Pathetically transparent
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on December 15, 2020, 07:22:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:11:54 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 11:50:20 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 14, 2020, 11:41:09 PM
Encapsulates the deluded tosser perfectly.

Well you say that, Red Hand, but apparently it was actually me who made you post that (using mind control I assume).

After all, Sid (the fella who is adamant that he dislikes dishonest posters and straw man arguments) this morning posted an accusation that when anyone leaves a post agreeing with something I've written, that I somehow made them do it.

Seems straw men only upset him when they are built by others.
No, I wrote a post to the effect that there is a circle jerk full of Shinners on this forum, who continually back each others infantile nonsense up with aggressive, playground bully style posts, and that point has been borne out beautifully

You dig any further in this thread and you'll end up in Australia, you cockwomble.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 07:24:50 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 15, 2020, 07:22:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:11:54 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2020, 11:50:20 PM
Quote from: red hander on December 14, 2020, 11:41:09 PM
Encapsulates the deluded tosser perfectly.

Well you say that, Red Hand, but apparently it was actually me who made you post that (using mind control I assume).

After all, Sid (the fella who is adamant that he dislikes dishonest posters and straw man arguments) this morning posted an accusation that when anyone leaves a post agreeing with something I've written, that I somehow made them do it.

Seems straw men only upset him when they are built by others.
No, I wrote a post to the effect that there is a circle jerk full of Shinners on this forum, who continually back each others infantile nonsense up with aggressive, playground bully style posts, and that point has been borne out beautifully

You dig any further in this thread and you'll end up in Australia, you cockwomble.

Any chance you can confirm for everyone that you condemn the Old IRA campaign?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 07:33:33 PM
I didn't pick random names.
I mentioned 2 servants of the Independent Irish State the 37th anniversary of whose murders by Provo criminals occurs tomorrow.
The other 3 named servants of the State suffered the same fate.
Gary Sheehan would now be 60 and Patrick Kelly would be 72.
His youngest child was 37 in September.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 07:33:33 PM
I didn't pick random names.
I mentioned 2 servants of the Independent Irish State the 37th anniversary of whose murders by Provo criminals occurs tomorrow.
The other 3 named servants of the State suffered the same fate.
Gary Sheehan would now be 60 and Patrick Kelly would be 72.
His youngest child was 37 in September.

Except that those deaths had nothing to do with the tweet about Narrow Water, did they? They were randomly referenced for petty point scoring.

Another thread on this board relates to new information about events surrounding the killing of two children in Belturbett who's anniversary is imminent. You haven't seemingly found yourself moved enough to comment on those victims though. Like I say, you have your useful victims that you like to talk about and that's as far as your real concern for the conflict goes.

Transparent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Look-Up! on December 15, 2020, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.

Can't agree with this.

This was an PIRA negotiated surrender. They gave up their guns, disbanded, accepted the unionist veto, accepted the removal of the 26 county State's claim to the 6 counties and recognised crown forces as the legitimate enforcers of the rule of law in the 6 counties. In return they got their prisoners out, were allowed to contest elections in for a place in a mandatory coalition administration with limited powers with a petition of concern stapled to it.

To claim it was about equality is nonsense. Inequality fuelled the sense of oppression surely but the end goal was a United Ireland.

SF performed mental gymnastics to spin the surrender as a victory and executed these gymnastics very well in order to make it palatable to nationalism and ex combatants. The fact the PIRA weren't militarily wiped out is painted as a victory but it clearly wasn't by any objective standard.

The fact SF basically stole the SDLP's policies and place was painted as an electoral revolution, when all it done was spurs a Newtonian reaction in Unionism in the form of the DUP.

To be fair though - the southern parties are unbelievably hypocritical in their approach to SF. Their war was equally as morally justified or unjustified (depending on your position). Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .

It was the old IRA's own surrender under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" (an immediate surrender in the case of FG and a slower one in the form of FF) which gave them both their positions in politics in the 26 counties. It provided the moral platform for the PIRA to pursue their campaign (Christ they even considered arming them on occasion) and allowed SF to accept the same broad terms of surrender at the end of the century.

It is beyond irony for them to criticise SF for learning the same lessons they did.

It is also beyond irony for SF to call dissidents "traitors" for doing the same things they did with the exact same electoral legitimacy they had when they were doing it.

I've watched this thread for a while now and both sides haven't a moral leg to stand on.
We can agree to disagree. The only nonsense to me is that the driving force for escalations was the ideal of a United Ireland.

I couldn't give a crap about political ideologies, anyone who votes solely on party name, like it's their hometown football team, I don't get. People can quote SF manifesto all they want but the movement from the 70's on had broad community support and it wasn't for some political ideal. What drove the recruitment, the anger, the support, was watching family members, neighbours, friends, colleagues, club members butchered with no justice to follow. NI is a small place and terror spreads fast.

The total denial of the media and governments as to what was happening also fuelled the anger and sense of inequality. The dogs on the street knew British security forces were in collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries but to say this to most people from the Free State until only very recently they would laugh in your face. To say it to an English person they would have you committed. Media spin is a powerful thing.

A good majority of people in the free state couldn't give a damn, if the truth be known, about the real plight of Catholics in the North and the notion that the troubles was about a united Ireland is an easy sell instead of acknowledging the turning of their backs to the people in the north. It then gives them the self righteous indignation to proclaim 'Violence, not in my name!'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on December 15, 2020, 09:54:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:04:25 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 14, 2020, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 14, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 14, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
The escalation in violence in the 70's was not for a United Ireland. It was a breaking point in that Catholic frustration finally boiled over and knew they were never going to be treated equally by talking. There may have been some headbangers in the movement where a United Ireland was the only goal but equality was the driving force.

Saying GFA was a surrender is only half right, it was British surrender. Sunningdale in 73 would have achieved power sharing and the violence of the years that followed would never have been. What was the British response to this? Murder of 33 Irish civilians in Monaghan and Dublin in 74. Women and children deliberately targeted in a no warning attack, worst single atrocity in the whole of the Troubles. As clear a statement as ever that they would not tolerate negotiations with vermin.

Major dragged his heels on GFA, he was under political pressure at home and needed Unionist support (all through the years they always had too much influence in the House of Lords and by proxy, British Government policy). But Canary Warf and time finally caught up with them. The money men in London took the decision out of his hands, the financial cost of the IRA campaign was too much. World was changing, Europe was changing, the troubles possibly caused the ECB to not be in London or at least never to be on the negotiating table. The cost was greater than they will ever admit, same as their surrender will never be admitted. But it wasn't talking brought them to the table.
To say that the PIRA's goal was not a united Ireland is a rewriting of history

At every single juncture of history, the goal of anybody who called themselves the IRA was an all island Irish Republic - the clue is in the title - the Irish Republican Army - not the Irish Equality Army or the Irish Fair Housing Army

The British did not surrender anything with the Good Friday Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them

What did the Unionists lose? Sod all, a title of a police force, that's about it

What did the victims of the Troubles lose? Justice

if the british government (won entirely) and the unionists lost( sod all) as part of the GFA why did the majority of the unionist population vote against it?   Baffling
Not really baffling at all

Paranoia and propaganda and unfounded belief in superiority is the answer, hundreds of years of belief that they were the chosen people, superior to the sub-human Catholics

When an ethnic or religious group traditionally has hegemony, any extension of rights or equality to those who have traditionally been oppressed seems like a defeat - because the group identity is based on superiority to the "other" - not equality

It's a collective pathology

That's why they build ever bigger bonfires festooned with"KAT" and burning tricolours, the NI team continues to play God Save The Queen, why they continue to demand the Union Jack be flown from public buildings as a matter of priority and why they demanded Garvaghy Road to march on

The mindset of a lot of Unionists was or is very like the mindset of white racists in America

I see you edited your post to include a Ruth Dudley Edwards reference - thanks for the personal abuse - it's always welcome

Ruth Dudley Edwards is an example of that pathology of mind

But so is calling anybody who says the IRA's mass murder spree was wrong "Ruth Dudley Edwards" also a pathology of the mind

Right, apologies for the RDE ammendment. That was uncalled for. She definitely wouldn't have written the above which would likely see you expelled from the 1922 committee!
       That being said,  i think your stated views on the gfa(that was all i commented on) are simplistic and deliberately provocative to get a rise out of another poster. 
         The GFA was a peace agreement with all sides negotiating and compromising(except DUP). Sure there were fudges and inconsistencies but it was enough that all sides could say they came away with something.
     The fact that the majority of the unionist population voted against it, would lead me to believe anectodotally, that they believed the DUP hype that nationalists got a slightly better deal rather than the whole lot of them being  sectarian bigots(undoubtedly there is a  proportion that are, as you said).
       

Not provocative at all

The PIRA armed campaign was unquestionably a failure and the PIRA failed unquestionably in their one central, all consuming goal, which was to get a united Ireland

What Sinn Fein did "win" was the release of PIRA prisoners which was a bitter pill for Unionists to swallow, but this undoubtedly was for the greater good

Sinn Fein "won" admittance to the political process, they had already done this with the second ceasefire, but this was very much a consolation prize for the failure of the armed campaign

Decommisioning and "the war is over" followed later, these were the rotten cherry on top of the cake of defeat

Who really lost though were the families of the victims on all sides, who saw their murderers let out, some of them reluctantly accepted that this was for the greater good, many more remained very bitter, understandably so

A somewhat functioning, non-sectarian or at least much less sectarian police force, something which had the potential to be built up into a widely respected societal institution if it functioned as intended, was a victory for everybody, for society

But this was not what the PIRA fought for, and indeed for eight years Sinn Fein remained firmly on the fence about this police force

Neither was Stormont what they had fought for, Stormont was one of their problems at the start of the Troubles

What the Sinn Fein side was left with was a route into democratic politics, one that had already been available to them three decades earlier

Three decades of fighting for that?

What was it all for?

Paisley realised towards the end that the DUP had won despite not even taking part in the GFA negotiations and NI's place in the UK was safe as long as the majority of the people of NI wanted that - which was always going to be the case anyway, no matter what happened, fighting or no fighting

That was the central truth about NI from 1922 on

Sid you are a bit of an enigma. I find myself ageeing with you on many of the other threads,(particularly in relation to US politics although the suggestion of arming the black population and encouraging armed resistance is daft). 
        However your posts on this thread are contradictory and at times ludicrous and/or deliberately provocative. I suppose because you feel everyone is ganging up on you? Im not sure.

In relation to the GFA. You have stated that the The British did not surrender anything with the  Agreement - they won, completely, there was no downside whatsoever for them and the unionists lost sod all
       Ergo Sinn Fein lost/failed/were defeated and achieved none of their goals.
        I appreciate that this is a Sinn Fein thread but at the time of the gfa they were only one of the participants ( they werent even the biggest nationalist party in the North at that time). If there was a failure for Nationalism ( i personally dont believe there was as everybody had to compromise) then the SDLP and the Irish governement would surely be equally as culpable?
        Also the idea that the biggest majority of Unionists are knuckle dragging biggots(undoubtedly there is a large minority) is unfair. They went into those negotiations just like the Republicans and Nationalists with specific goals (as you said many of them they acheived).
           With the benefit of hindsight im sure Republicans would do things differently. I dont think the armed conflict furthered the cause of a united Ireland(others may disagree).
         I suppose from a Republican perspective in the early 70's they had seen British withdrawal from a number of other former colonies. Many through military insurrections notably in Malaya, Kenya, Cyprus and Aden.
          They were different times. This place was a boiling cesspit of inequality, sectarianism and violence towards the Catholic minority. It was a perfect shit storm.
      The British were well versed in quelling insurrections in other colonies and used the same techniques as they did in Aden a few years prior exacerbating the situation.
      The Irish governement pretty much stood idly by while the Northern nationalists were victimised. More so after the Dublin Monaghan bombings in 74(which may well have had British agent involvement).
        The whole place decended into a viscious dirty complex conflict in which the British government along with the IRA and other groups all played a part. It took a generation to end and destroyed countless lives.
       You've took the few that it was ok for the IRA to defend their besieged areas in the early 70's but they were wrong to continue. Something i think those in Fine Gael and some sections of the south would find abhorrent since the IRA were all murdering bastards post the war of independence.
          During the war of independence the old IRA were of course  chivalrous and manly and played by the rules of gentlemanly conflict. None of this killing civilian shannanigans.
         You are right about one thing though; the poor innocent victims will more than likely never get any justice be they from the Enniskillen or Belturbet.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on December 15, 2020, 10:53:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.

If that was the case then the Brits kept the entire conflict going for nigh on 30 years with the subsequent loss of life and cost of the conflict. Im not so sure. What would be the objective?
        Definitely infiltrated to very high levels though.
      Bang on about John Hume. A selfless hero in my eyes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 11:02:42 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2020, 10:53:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.

If that was the case then the Brits kept the entire conflict going for nigh on 30 years with the subsequent loss of life and cost of the conflict. Im not so sure. What would be the objective?
        Definitely infiltrated to very high levels though.
      Bang on about John Hume. A selfless hero in my eyes.

They were heavily infiltrated from late 70s onwards, bit by bit, you don't wind the conflict down overnight without full infiltration, I should maybe have phrased that better, I cant be sure the entire leadership was infiltrated, we will never know that, but we must strongly expect that a lot were.

There was a definite major financial payoff or bribe or whatever you want to call it(either that or a realisation they couldnt win)- sad when you are sitting up in the Telstar Bar looking into your pint realising you've been taken for a ride

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 15, 2020, 11:53:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 05:53:34 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Just answer the question Sid.

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
I don't regard the Dunmanway massacre as justifiable in any way

I have a very dim view of war in general and I have no interest whatsoever in glorifying the War of Independence

Sinn Fein do glorify the 28 year PIRA campaign, they continue to glorify it, many posters here glorify it

You are deliberately trying to blur the lines between war and isolated actions within a war. You have all along implied that if you agreed with the PIRA campaign, that you must therefore believe all actions they carried out during that campaign were justifiable.

I'm merely trying to follow your own logic here. If you believe the Dunmanway Massacre was unjustifiable, by your own terms you must surely then regard the entire Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? You can't have it both ways here.

Similarly, you say that the PIRA campaign was unjustifiable "because civilian slaughter was an integral part of that campaign", then, given that civilian slaughter was an even more prevelant aspect of the Old IRA campaign, can we assume, again, that you regard the Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? Again, you can't have it both ways.
Again, you're totally deflecting - I'm not the person glorifying killing people, you and the likes of Angelo are

Youse are the people that have to answer the questions

The IRA killed 644 civilians

They killed 638 British Army or UDR

They killed a miserly 28 Loyalists - the very people who were terrorising their communities

So tell us again how they were "protecting their communities"?

They were in me hole protecting their communities, they were sucking them into a three decades long spiral of death and destruction

Pied pipers

You don't really know much about the north really.

Loyalists, aided and abetted by the UDR/RUC, terrorised the nationalist community.

I see you take the same view as Fianna Gael.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

That was a good operation but to say we blew up the city of London is a stretch, my point on the Brits is that they never embarrassed themselves by switching sides
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

That was a good operation but to say we blew up the city of London is a stretch, my point on the Brits is that they never embarrassed themselves by switching sides

How would that work?

The Brits were able to infiltrate hoods to join the Provos or they were able to threathen with prison sentences or through other state branches.

The Provos on the other hand were an outlawed paramilitary organisation for an oppressed minority community. Tell me how getting Brits to switch sides would work?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on December 16, 2020, 12:06:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

Thats it on a nutshell. If you believe that they knew all involved then the following would be entirely true including the last paragraph which i dont believe it was.
        A secret branch of the british military intelligence operated for nigh on 30 years during the conflict here. They operated independently of the various British goverments but received tacit approval for their activities.
           (Though never enough to implicate any of the politicians in any wrong doing). In any event under the official secrets act all information to be locked away for 75 years+ or until nobody is alive to give a shit.
        They entirely directed operations or were certainly aware of nearly all Loyalist paramilitary activity including the targetting of suspected Republicans, nationalist civilians,  and even members of the judiciary. 
           They had agents/moles at many levels in the irish republic's judiciary and civil service and in the irish political elite and news media.
          They infiltrated the Republican movement from the outset running agents and informers right to the highest level.
            They knew enough of the active participants to arrest all those involved in the Republican movement in the late 70's early 80's but allowed the killing to continue.
         If it was true why did they keep the conflict going?
     Was it like a self preservation thing to justify their continued existence in an era where Britains other foreign colonies/interests had all but dissappeared.
       
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Whether the SDLP could have achieved civil rights we'll never know. You cannot deny the reluctance of Unionists to come to the talking table, in fact the notion of it was always met with extreme violence- The bombing of Belfast and ousting of O'Neill, the killing of their own like George Forrest, reaction to Sunningdale and bombing of Dublin. Many nationalist communities in the north chose to stand up for themselves by picking up arms as their best option. It's easy to judge and condemn when it's not your own children you're burying.

SF are good at spin same as every political party. It's the name of the game. But one thing they have called for is a Truth and Reconciliation Commission (call it a bluff if you like) which was met with deaf ears. It's something I would have loved to see and for the full truths to come out. I wouldn't have cared if the likes of McGuinness and Adams had spent the rest of their existence in a deep dungeon as long as they had plenty of company to rot with, from Unionist and Tory politicians and high ranking officials from the British security services.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Whether the SDLP could have achieved civil rights we'll never know. You cannot deny the reluctance of Unionists to come to the talking table, in fact the notion of it was always met with extreme violence- The bombing of Belfast and ousting of O'Neill, the killing of their own like George Forrest, reaction to Sunningdale and bombing of Dublin. Many nationalist communities in the north chose to stand up for themselves by picking up arms as their best option. It's easy to judge and condemn when it's not your own children you're burying.

SF are good at spin same as every political party. It's the name of the game. But one thing they have called for is a Truth and Reconciliation Commission (call it a bluff if you like) which was met with deaf ears. It's something I would have loved to see and for the full truths to come out. I wouldn't have cared if the likes of McGuinness and Adams had spent the rest of their existence in a deep dungeon as long as they had plenty of company to rot with, from Unionist and Tory politicians and high ranking officials from the British security services.

And also very importantly the active role the Free State establishment took in covering the Dublin Monaghan bombings.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Whether the SDLP could have achieved civil rights we'll never know. You cannot deny the reluctance of Unionists to come to the talking table, in fact the notion of it was always met with extreme violence- The bombing of Belfast and ousting of O'Neill, the killing of their own like George Forrest, reaction to Sunningdale and bombing of Dublin. Many nationalist communities in the north chose to stand up for themselves by picking up arms as their best option. It's easy to judge and condemn when it's not your own children you're burying.

SF are good at spin same as every political party. It's the name of the game. But one thing they have called for is a Truth and Reconciliation Commission (call it a bluff if you like) which was met with deaf ears. It's something I would have loved to see and for the full truths to come out. I wouldn't have cared if the likes of McGuinness and Adams had spent the rest of their existence in a deep dungeon as long as they had plenty of company to rot with, from Unionist and Tory politicians and high ranking officials from the British security services.

And also very importantly the active role the Free State establishment took in covering the Dublin Monaghan bombings.
Yes, if the full truths were known I would fully expect a few Irish politicians to be occupying the same dungeon. The treatment of the families of the victims of those bombings by our governments really is a huge shame on this country and one that no one wants to acknowledge.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

That was a good operation but to say we blew up the city of London is a stretch, my point on the Brits is that they never embarrassed themselves by switching sides

How would that work?

The Brits were able to infiltrate hoods to join the Provos or they were able to threathen with prison sentences or through other state branches.

The Provos on the other hand were an outlawed paramilitary organisation for an oppressed minority community. Tell me how getting Brits to switch sides would work?

Showed your colours there boy ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

That was a good operation but to say we blew up the city of London is a stretch, my point on the Brits is that they never embarrassed themselves by switching sides

How would that work?

The Brits were able to infiltrate hoods to join the Provos or they were able to threathen with prison sentences or through other state branches.

The Provos on the other hand were an outlawed paramilitary organisation for an oppressed minority community. Tell me how getting Brits to switch sides would work?

Showed your colours there boy ;)

I note you haven't addressed the question.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:13:51 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Whether the SDLP could have achieved civil rights we'll never know.
The SDLP did achieve civil rights
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:22:15 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 15, 2020, 11:53:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 05:53:34 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Just answer the question Sid.

If someone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA campaign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?
I don't regard the Dunmanway massacre as justifiable in any way

I have a very dim view of war in general and I have no interest whatsoever in glorifying the War of Independence

Sinn Fein do glorify the 28 year PIRA campaign, they continue to glorify it, many posters here glorify it

You are deliberately trying to blur the lines between war and isolated actions within a war. You have all along implied that if you agreed with the PIRA campaign, that you must therefore believe all actions they carried out during that campaign were justifiable.

I'm merely trying to follow your own logic here. If you believe the Dunmanway Massacre was unjustifiable, by your own terms you must surely then regard the entire Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? You can't have it both ways here.

Similarly, you say that the PIRA campaign was unjustifiable "because civilian slaughter was an integral part of that campaign", then, given that civilian slaughter was an even more prevelant aspect of the Old IRA campaign, can we assume, again, that you regard the Old IRA campaign as unjustifiable? Again, you can't have it both ways.
Again, you're totally deflecting - I'm not the person glorifying killing people, you and the likes of Angelo are

Youse are the people that have to answer the questions

The IRA killed 644 civilians

They killed 638 British Army or UDR

They killed a miserly 28 Loyalists - the very people who were terrorising their communities

So tell us again how they were "protecting their communities"?

They were in me hole protecting their communities, they were sucking them into a three decades long spiral of death and destruction

Pied pipers

You don't really know much about the north really.

Loyalists, aided and abetted by the UDR/RUC, terrorised the nationalist community.

I see you take the same view as Fianna Gael.

How is killing 644 civilians and 28 Loyalists "protecting your communities"?

The PIRA killed more PIRA people than they killed Loyalists

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:33:42 PM
Thomas Begley killed himself, one UDA member and eight civilians going about their business

So one of the 28 Loyalists killed by the IRA was killed by Begley

How would Begley be viewed among Sinn Fein supporters?

Would he be viewed as a hero for killing the UDA man?

Or would the killing of the eight civilians cancel that out and then drive him into the villain column?

Or would youse say the killing of the eight civilians was bad - but not enough to wipe out the "good deed" of the killing of the UDA man, leaving him in credit overall and thus worthy of celebration?

Maybe there might yet be a book about him in the bookshop in Parnell Square "Thomas Begley - The Good, The Bad And The Ugly"?



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 16, 2020, 05:36:05 PM
A lot more waffle but he still hasn't condemned the actions of the old IRA I see...

We wait with baited breath
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 15, 2020, 07:38:24 PM

The total denial of the media and governments as to what was happening also fuelled the anger and sense of inequality. The dogs on the street knew British security forces were in collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries but to say this to most people from the Free State until only very recently they would laugh in your face. To say it to an English person they would have you committed. Media spin is a powerful thing.

Utter nonsense

People in the Republic long believed there was Loyalist/British collusion, especially as the single most devastating event of the entire Troubles took place in the Republic
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 16, 2020, 05:54:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted
The 1919 -21 IRA won if you consider forcing the Brits into changing a Home Rule "Southern Ireland" into a self Governing Dominion called The Irish Free State.
Unlike the 1970 -2005 IRA they had agents on the inside in Dublin Castle and their Informer hunters weren't the Chief Informer.
The 1922-23 IRA were well beaten in the Civil War

On this anniversary of the  Derrada murders I still can't see how Gary Sheehan RIP and Patrick Kelly RIP were oppressors of Northern Catholic/Nationalists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

That was a good operation but to say we blew up the city of London is a stretch, my point on the Brits is that they never embarrassed themselves by switching sides

How would that work?

The Brits were able to infiltrate hoods to join the Provos or they were able to threathen with prison sentences or through other state branches.

The Provos on the other hand were an outlawed paramilitary organisation for an oppressed minority community. Tell me how getting Brits to switch sides would work?

Showed your colours there boy ;)

I note you haven't addressed the question.

You are basically admitting that the structure and leadership of IRA was so poor that they could not even keep hoods never mind MI5 out, anyhow I'm sure many of the families who suffered the death of their family members as part of thia dirty war will be glad you are classing them as hoods. Yes and as you said we were outmuscled intellectually and in every other way which left us with very little chance to turn the tables
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:56:12 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2020, 05:36:05 PM
A lot more waffle but he still hasn't condemned the actions of the old IRA I see...

We wait with baited breath
It's hilarious how Northern Catholics who are living with an irreconcilable sense of cognitive dissonance over the PIRA campaign always reach for the whataboutery

They can't debate on the PIRA campaign, they refuse to debate

The old IRA did plenty of horrible things, but they had an actual clear strategy to win, and win they did

That's a key part of the morality of waging a war

The PIRA had no strategy other than nihilism

They lost, they lost pretty much right away, but they still carried on for three decades

Say what you want about the old IRA but their war produced a society which at least had the chance to move forward within a short time

The PIRA, like UNITA in Angola, produced a society which was set back decades



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2020, 05:36:05 PM
A lot more waffle but he still hasn't condemned the actions of the old IRA I see...

We wait with baited breath

That's because he's the only poster on here who justifies the killings of civilians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:02:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

That was a good operation but to say we blew up the city of London is a stretch, my point on the Brits is that they never embarrassed themselves by switching sides

How would that work?

The Brits were able to infiltrate hoods to join the Provos or they were able to threathen with prison sentences or through other state branches.

The Provos on the other hand were an outlawed paramilitary organisation for an oppressed minority community. Tell me how getting Brits to switch sides would work?

Showed your colours there boy ;)

I note you haven't addressed the question.

You are basically admitting that the structure and leadership of IRA was so poor that they could not even keep hoods never mind MI5 out, anyhow I'm sure many of the families who suffered the death of their family members as part of thia dirty war will be glad you are classing them as hoods. Yes and as you said we were outmuscled intellectually and in every other way which left us with very little chance to turn the tables

How would I know whether they did or not? I never said that and I wouldn't know. We do know that British intelligence recruited hoods to join the IRA and were able to turn high ranking members like Scappaticci.

And you still haven't answered my question.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 06:05:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2020, 05:36:05 PM
A lot more waffle but he still hasn't condemned the actions of the old IRA I see...

We wait with baited breath

That's because he's the only poster on here who justifies the killings of civilians.
This is quite the laugh

Angelo, who knows no other method of debate other than lying, has now backed himself into admitting he would have rathered the 26 counties remained part of the UK in 1922  ;D

Hilarious
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:02:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

That was a good operation but to say we blew up the city of London is a stretch, my point on the Brits is that they never embarrassed themselves by switching sides

How would that work?

The Brits were able to infiltrate hoods to join the Provos or they were able to threathen with prison sentences or through other state branches.

The Provos on the other hand were an outlawed paramilitary organisation for an oppressed minority community. Tell me how getting Brits to switch sides would work?

Showed your colours there boy ;)

I note you haven't addressed the question.

You are basically admitting that the structure and leadership of IRA was so poor that they could not even keep hoods never mind MI5 out, anyhow I'm sure many of the families who suffered the death of their family members as part of thia dirty war will be glad you are classing them as hoods. Yes and as you said we were outmuscled intellectually and in every other way which left us with very little chance to turn the tables

How would I know whether they did or not? I never said that and I wouldn't know. We do know that British intelligence recruited hoods to join the IRA and were able to turn high ranking members like Scappaticci.

And you still haven't answered my question.
Poor old Angelo

As well as vainly trying to distinguish between the "good" acts of the PIRA and the "bad" acts - which often overlapped - he now has to try and distinguish between the Irish PIRA and the British PIRA, who were and mostly remain indistinguishable from each other

The most hated of all species was the "tout", the PIRA man who was working for the Brits on the inside

But the guy tasked with the job of outing the "touts" was a tout himself, and what's more, he was an Italian

What a joke shop, you couldn't make it up

The PIRA really should have just given up and opened a giant hall of mirrors as a museum of their campaign

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 06:21:15 PM
I've heard it all now. The old IRA won!!!!!

The hero's of the rebellion, of independence, betrayed their brothers and sisters in the north. They never got a united Ireland, they got a f**k you jack I'm ok sort of deal and tucked tail. Left the people in the north hanging and then proclaim the war is over, what's the problem, can u all not just get along.

They would rather lay the blame for all the troubles in the north on republicans, IRA, SF than to face reality and address their own shame.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 16, 2020, 06:26:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Since when was a 26 county state what the old IRA wanted? Listen to the crap you say for once!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 06:41:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 16, 2020, 06:26:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Since when was a 26 county state what the old IRA wanted? Listen to the crap you say for once!!
The IRA wanted an Irish state

The Treaty debates and the Civil War were not about the border

They were about the oath of allegiance, the dominion status within the British Empire, the fact that the new state would not (yet) be a Republic

The reality is the dispute over which jurisdiction the six counties is in is and never has been much different to any other territorial dispute in history

There is no inherent state of nature in which the island of Ireland is one political unit

There is no inherent state of nature in which any piece of land anywhere belongs to any political entity or state


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:51:12 PM
The Old IRA fought for a 26 county free state with an elite Catholic ruling class, a dysfunctional health service, a homeless crisis and huge wealth inequality and injustice, zero hour contracts and mass political corruption.

Sid is very Trumpian in his ideals.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 06:54:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:51:12 PM
The Old IRA fought for a 26 county free state with an elite Catholic ruling class, a dysfunctional health service, a homeless crisis and huge wealth inequality and injustice, zero hour contracts and mass political corruption.

Sid is very Trumpian in his ideals.
This reminds me of one those posts you see on Twitter which come from bot accounts with 8 digit numbers, the ones that get filtered down to the very bottom of long threads of replies
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 06:54:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:51:12 PM
The Old IRA fought for a 26 county free state with an elite Catholic ruling class, a dysfunctional health service, a homeless crisis and huge wealth inequality and injustice, zero hour contracts and mass political corruption.

Sid is very Trumpian in his ideals.
This reminds me of one those posts you see on Twitter which come from bot accounts with 8 digit numbers, the ones that get filtered down to the very bottom of long threads of replies

Just what I'd expect of a Trumpian supporter.

Your split personality is rearing its head again.

Off to the American politics thread to berate Trump, then over to other threads to morph into him.

Bizarre.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 07:08:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:02:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

That was a good operation but to say we blew up the city of London is a stretch, my point on the Brits is that they never embarrassed themselves by switching sides

How would that work?

The Brits were able to infiltrate hoods to join the Provos or they were able to threathen with prison sentences or through other state branches.

The Provos on the other hand were an outlawed paramilitary organisation for an oppressed minority community. Tell me how getting Brits to switch sides would work?

Showed your colours there boy ;)

I note you haven't addressed the question.

You are basically admitting that the structure and leadership of IRA was so poor that they could not even keep hoods never mind MI5 out, anyhow I'm sure many of the families who suffered the death of their family members as part of thia dirty war will be glad you are classing them as hoods. Yes and as you said we were outmuscled intellectually and in every other way which left us with very little chance to turn the tables

How would I know whether they did or not? I never said that and I wouldn't know. We do know that British intelligence recruited hoods to join the IRA and were able to turn high ranking members like Scappaticci.

And you still haven't answered my question.

Oh yes I did, you just can't understand the answer
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 08:05:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:20:35 PM
If killing civilians is enough to make you condemn the PIRA campaign, surely you'll have no problem condemning the Old IRA campaign, given that they targetted a higher proportion of civilians?

Just a reminder, Sid, that you still haven't taken the opportunity to answer the above question.

Let's hear it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 08:11:00 PM
FG commemorating terrorists today I see.

https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1339223937499222016?s=19
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 08:23:27 PM
Sid taken to the underground again to stock up with delusional tinfoil hat stuff and continue to avoid answering any questions.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 16, 2020, 09:40:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:56:12 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2020, 05:36:05 PM
A lot more waffle but he still hasn't condemned the actions of the old IRA I see...

We wait with baited breath
It's hilarious how Northern Catholics who are living with an irreconcilable sense of cognitive dissonance over the PIRA campaign always reach for the whataboutery

They can't debate on the PIRA campaign, they refuse to debate

The old IRA did plenty of horrible things, but they had an actual clear strategy to win, and win they did

That's a key part of the morality of waging a war

The PIRA had no strategy other than nihilism

They lost, they lost pretty much right away, but they still carried on for three decades

Say what you want about the old IRA but their war produced a society which at least had the chance to move forward within a short time

The PIRA, like UNITA in Angola, produced a society which was set back decades

We've even shoehorned in Angola here... but still no condemnation...

Some time shortly, he's bound to say it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on December 16, 2020, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:51:12 PM
The Old IRA fought for a 26 county free state with an elite Catholic ruling class, a dysfunctional health service, a homeless crisis and huge wealth inequality and injustice, zero hour contracts and mass political corruption.

Sid is very Trumpian in his ideals.

You think? What's your evidence?

I am old enough to have spoken with an old IRA man and that was certainly not his objective.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 08:05:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:20:35 PM
If killing civilians is enough to make you condemn the PIRA campaign, surely you'll have no problem condemning the Old IRA campaign, given that they targetted a higher proportion of civilians?

Just a reminder, Sid, that you still haven't taken the opportunity to answer the above question.

Let's hear it.
I condemn civilian murder but the old IRA's overall campaign as a whole can be reasonably argued to be morally justifiable because there was a reasonably justifiable casus belli, the war was short - those waging it were mindful that the population was at breaking point by summer 1921 - it had the support of the people, and because it had a very good chance of winning - and it did win

The PIRA campaign was totally unjustified because it had zero chance of success, did not have the support of the people, and there were peaceful alternatives available - when you add these things together, it therefore could not have a justifiable casus belli

The two campaigns as a whole are morally not equivalent at all

These are the nuances you and Franko just don't get - youse have a totally simplistic, wrong understanding of what makes a just conflict as a whole - these are the sort of nuances which can be applied to all conflict worldwide

Your argument is like trying to justify the US invading Iraq because they invaded Germany in 1945, so therefore they are morally equivalent - they aren't

The actual moral similarity is between the PIRA campaign and the disso campaign which murdered Ronan Kerr and Lyra McKee

They have the exact same aims, they exact same methods, the exact same chance of success

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 08:23:27 PM
Sid taken to the underground again to stock up with delusional tinfoil hat stuff and continue to avoid answering any questions.
Lolz, this from the guy who hasn't answered a single question over the last umpteen pages and whose attitude to debate is that of a playground fight

Is there no beginning to your understanding?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:00:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 08:11:00 PM
FG commemorating terrorists today I see.

https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1339223937499222016?s=19
Well at least we now know you think the PIRA were nothing more than terrorists, because you've been saying all along that the old IRA and the PIRA were the exact same

To add to your belief that there should not have been an independent Irish state in 1922

Some really bizarre beliefs for a self professed Irish Nationalist who says he believed in the PIRA campaign
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 16, 2020, 11:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

Why was there a civil war? Are you really that stupid?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 11:34:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 15, 2020, 07:38:24 PM

The total denial of the media and governments as to what was happening also fuelled the anger and sense of inequality. The dogs on the street knew British security forces were in collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries but to say this to most people from the Free State until only very recently they would laugh in your face. To say it to an English person they would have you committed. Media spin is a powerful thing.

Utter nonsense

People in the Republic long believed there was Loyalist/British collusion, especially as the single most devastating event of the entire Troubles took place in the Republic
Ah so the Dublin bombing was a hot topic now, not swept under the carpet. Sorry, my mistake.

Let me guess, the bastions of truth keeping people informed with accurate and free information in the relentless pursuit of justice. The BBC and RTE?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 16, 2020, 11:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

Why was there a civil war? Are you really that stupid?
I've already explained this

The Civil War was not caused by partition

It was a very peripheral issue at best - the key issue was the oath of allegiance

Like some people take their view of the JFK assassination form the Oliver Stone film which was complete nonsense, this is the "Michael Collins" film version of history
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:44:01 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 11:34:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 15, 2020, 07:38:24 PM

The total denial of the media and governments as to what was happening also fuelled the anger and sense of inequality. The dogs on the street knew British security forces were in collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries but to say this to most people from the Free State until only very recently they would laugh in your face. To say it to an English person they would have you committed. Media spin is a powerful thing.

Utter nonsense

People in the Republic long believed there was Loyalist/British collusion, especially as the single most devastating event of the entire Troubles took place in the Republic
Ah so the Dublin bombing was a hot topic now, not swept under the carpet. Sorry, my mistake.

Let me guess, the bastions of truth keeping people informed with accurate and free information in the relentless pursuit of justice. The BBC and RTE?
Your assertion is simply wrong

The Dublin government caved as regards pushing to find out the real truth of the bombings

But pretty much everybody down here believed there was British involvement from the get go

Open to correction but as far as I remember it was an ITV documentary in 1993 that contained the first real substantiation of this

The carping about BBC and RTE from Shinners is reminiscent of the Gembots

All yis are missing is an "RTE is the virus" avatar

BBC and RTE both had and have plenty of faults but yis sound like Celtic supporters going on about freemasons, yis sound nuts
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

No it wasn't. It was for an Irish Republic - in fact to be more precise they wanted recognition of the Irish republic declared in 1916, and run the Dail elected in 1917.

When the old IRA surrendered under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" what they got in return was a 26 county British Dominion in which parliamentarians had to swear allegiance to the British Crown.

"Home Rule for slow learners" if you paraphrase Seamus Mallon.  I don't say that to be disrespectful, at least half of the army of the Republic of first Dail broadly agreed with that conclusion.

The British Dominion then preserved this Dominion status by borrowing cannons from the British, and hiring ex-British servicemen to fight in the enduring civil war - committing unspeakable atrocities in the process (as did the other side).

The Republic was won (de jure) peacefully in 37. Declared (defacto) to in 49. Peacefully by diplomatic skill and opportunism.

The Old IRA had no chance of "winning" their war from the outset. That justification doesn't stack up Sid to support your argument.

A better example would have been Pearses surrender in 1916 where he explicitly done so to avoid more civilian casualties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

No it wasn't. It was for an Irish Republic - in fact to be more precise they wanted recognition of the Irish republic declared in 1916, and run the Dail elected in 1917.

When the old IRA surrendered under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" what they got in return was a 26 county British Dominion in which parliamentarians had to swear allegiance to the British Crown.

"Home Rule for slow learners" if you paraphrase Seamus Mallon.  I don't say that to be disrespectful, at least half of the army of the Republic of first Dail broadly agreed with that conclusion.

The British Dominion then preserved this Dominion status by borrowing cannons from the British, and hiring ex-British servicemen to fight in the enduring civil war - committing unspeakable atrocities in the process (as did the other side).

The Republic was won (de jure) peacefully in 37. Declared (defacto) to in 49. Peacefully by diplomatic skill and opportunism.

The Old IRA had no chance of "winning" their war from the outset. That justification doesn't stack up Sid to support your argument.

A better example would have been Pearses surrender in 1916 where he explicitly done so to avoid more civilian casualties.
Well it was for an Irish Republic but they got an Irish Republic before long - the freedom to achieve freedom

And what was there from 22/23 was effectively an independent Irish state

It was unquestionably a victory



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:54:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

No it wasn't. It was for an Irish Republic - in fact to be more precise they wanted recognition of the Irish republic declared in 1916, and run the Dail elected in 1917.

When the old IRA surrendered under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" what they got in return was a 26 county British Dominion in which parliamentarians had to swear allegiance to the British Crown.

"Home Rule for slow learners" if you paraphrase Seamus Mallon.  I don't say that to be disrespectful, at least half of the army of the Republic of first Dail broadly agreed with that conclusion.

The British Dominion then preserved this Dominion status by borrowing cannons from the British, and hiring ex-British servicemen to fight in the enduring civil war - committing unspeakable atrocities in the process (as did the other side).

The Republic was won (de jure) peacefully in 37. Declared (defacto) to in 49. Peacefully by diplomatic skill and opportunism.

The Old IRA had no chance of "winning" their war from the outset. That justification doesn't stack up Sid to support your argument.

A better example would have been Pearses surrender in 1916 where he explicitly done so to avoid more civilian casualties.
Well it was for an Irish Republic but they got an Irish Republic before long - the freedom to achieve freedom

And what was there from 22/23 was effectively an independent Irish state

It was unquestionably a victory

I don't think I would characterise it as a victory - more the "best defeat" that could be achieved.

Again - these men (aside from those who committed war crimes) were hero's. I mean them no disrespect - they deserve their exalted position in Irish history and long may that continue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:04:13 AM
Quote from: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:54:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

No it wasn't. It was for an Irish Republic - in fact to be more precise they wanted recognition of the Irish republic declared in 1916, and run the Dail elected in 1917.

When the old IRA surrendered under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" what they got in return was a 26 county British Dominion in which parliamentarians had to swear allegiance to the British Crown.

"Home Rule for slow learners" if you paraphrase Seamus Mallon.  I don't say that to be disrespectful, at least half of the army of the Republic of first Dail broadly agreed with that conclusion.

The British Dominion then preserved this Dominion status by borrowing cannons from the British, and hiring ex-British servicemen to fight in the enduring civil war - committing unspeakable atrocities in the process (as did the other side).

The Republic was won (de jure) peacefully in 37. Declared (defacto) to in 49. Peacefully by diplomatic skill and opportunism.

The Old IRA had no chance of "winning" their war from the outset. That justification doesn't stack up Sid to support your argument.

A better example would have been Pearses surrender in 1916 where he explicitly done so to avoid more civilian casualties.
Well it was for an Irish Republic but they got an Irish Republic before long - the freedom to achieve freedom

And what was there from 22/23 was effectively an independent Irish state

It was unquestionably a victory

I don't think I would characterise it as a victory - more the "best defeat" that could be achieved.

Again - these men (aside from those who committed war crimes) were hero's. I mean them no disrespect - they deserve their exalted position in Irish history and long may that continue.
It wasn't total victory which was never achievable but of course it was a victory - a sort of a Rolling Stones "you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need"

Home Rule would have meant remaining part of the United Kingdom

The Treaty meant the Free State ceased to be part of the United Kingdom with only a few Is to be dotted and a Ts to be crossed to get a Republic

Compared to what was believed achievable even six or seven years earlier, it was a totally seismic change
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:05:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 08:05:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:20:35 PM
If killing civilians is enough to make you condemn the PIRA campaign, surely you'll have no problem condemning the Old IRA campaign, given that they targetted a higher proportion of civilians?

Just a reminder, Sid, that you still haven't taken the opportunity to answer the above question.

Let's hear it.
I condemn civilian murder but the old IRA's overall campaign as a whole can be reasonably argued to be morally justifiable because there was a reasonably justifiable casus belli, the war was short - those waging it were mindful that the population was at breaking point by summer 1921 - it had the support of the people, and because it had a very good chance of winning - and it did win

The PIRA campaign was totally unjustified because it had zero chance of success, did not have the support of the people, and there were peaceful alternatives available - when you add these things together, it therefore could not have a justifiable casus belli

The two campaigns as a whole are morally not equivalent at all

These are the nuances you and Franko just don't get - youse have a totally simplistic, wrong understanding of what makes a just conflict as a whole - these are the sort of nuances which can be applied to all conflict worldwide

Your argument is like trying to justify the US invading Iraq because they invaded Germany in 1945, so therefore they are morally equivalent - they aren't

The actual moral similarity is between the PIRA campaign and the disso campaign which murdered Ronan Kerr and Lyra McKee

They have the exact same aims, they exact same methods, the exact same chance of success

Except that your argument isn't "nuanced". You've spent several days telling us that the PIRA campaign was immoral because you believe killing civilians was an integral part of it. The Old IRA killed a greater proportion of civilians but you seem to be fine with that because it was a short campaign. If you are driven by morality in your argument in terms of the targetting of civilians, then surely you wouldn't care how long a conflict lasted - any group that targetted civilians more routinely than the PIRA (whom you condemn on that barometer) did, can only be prime targets for your outright moral condemnation.

P.s. You use the utterly bizzare "justification" that the Old IRA "suceeded" in their campaign. Michael Collins famously said that the treaty didn't give Ireland freedom, (but rather the "freedom to achieve freedom"). So given that at no point before or during the Tan War did the Old IRA say they were fighting to achieve partition, and given that Collins didn't regard partition as freedom, can you not see why your suggestion that they suceeded in avhieving their aim for the war, has been so roundly ridiculed? I mean, if I'm wrong, it will no dount be easy for you simply post up a quote where the Old IRA said, before or during the war, that they were fighting to achieve a partitioned country. I await with interest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:14:14 AM
P.s. I see you are again spouting the notion that there was a peaceful route available to nationalists in the north to achieve what were have today. You keep ignoring the whole Bloody Sunday thing. It's actually kinda relevant in any discussion about how Britain responded to peaceful nationalist protestors in the north of Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 01:25:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:04:13 AM
Quote from: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:54:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

No it wasn't. It was for an Irish Republic - in fact to be more precise they wanted recognition of the Irish republic declared in 1916, and run the Dail elected in 1917.

When the old IRA surrendered under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" what they got in return was a 26 county British Dominion in which parliamentarians had to swear allegiance to the British Crown.

"Home Rule for slow learners" if you paraphrase Seamus Mallon.  I don't say that to be disrespectful, at least half of the army of the Republic of first Dail broadly agreed with that conclusion.

The British Dominion then preserved this Dominion status by borrowing cannons from the British, and hiring ex-British servicemen to fight in the enduring civil war - committing unspeakable atrocities in the process (as did the other side).

The Republic was won (de jure) peacefully in 37. Declared (defacto) to in 49. Peacefully by diplomatic skill and opportunism.

The Old IRA had no chance of "winning" their war from the outset. That justification doesn't stack up Sid to support your argument.

A better example would have been Pearses surrender in 1916 where he explicitly done so to avoid more civilian casualties.
Well it was for an Irish Republic but they got an Irish Republic before long - the freedom to achieve freedom

And what was there from 22/23 was effectively an independent Irish state

It was unquestionably a victory

I don't think I would characterise it as a victory - more the "best defeat" that could be achieved.

Again - these men (aside from those who committed war crimes) were hero's. I mean them no disrespect - they deserve their exalted position in Irish history and long may that continue.
It wasn't total victory which was never achievable but of course it was a victory - a sort of a Rolling Stones "you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need"

Home Rule would have meant remaining part of the United Kingdom

The Treaty meant the Free State ceased to be part of the United Kingdom with only a few Is to be dotted and a Ts to be crossed to get a Republic

Compared to what was believed achievable even six or seven years earlier, it was a totally seismic change

Even the most cursory analysis of the economy of the island in 1921 indicates that ireland was completely duped into declaring a partitioned "free state". Having shafted Ireland to such an extent that our population literally halved from the famine, the British came to the ingenious conclusion that they could offload the uncooperative Irish in the South, whilst retaining the industrial might of the North and protecting it with a privileged sectarian majority. Much like Some republicans claiming the GFA as a victory , the free staters claimed victory in 1921-whereas in reality they had been sold a pup. Only involvement in the EC , dubious government in the 80s,90s,00s and external Investment due to favourable tax environment, turned the economy around. As a fledgling "country" it wasn't easy , and abuse scandals, poor health service , influence of the Catholic Church and neglect of northern nationalists are examples  of how ROI has failed. However Ni has completely failed or at least run it's  course. Sectarian majority is now gone, the economy remains heavily subsidised, and English nationalists in power in Westminster will try to offload Ni , and the remaining unionist population which is a millstone round their neck. Offloading NI would be a legacy of which Boris would be proud.
A United ireland is now a "penalty kick". Uk would jump at it, but ironically the biggest barrier is northern nationalists who aren't working hard enough to persuade unionists and "freestaters" that it makes sense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 01:39:30 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 01:25:16 AM

Even the most cursory analysis of the economy of the island in 1921 indicates that ireland was completely duped into declaring a partitioned "free state". Having shafted Ireland to such an extent that our population literally halved from the famine, the British came to the ingenious conclusion that they could offload the uncooperative Irish in the South, whilst retaining the industrial might of the North and protecting it with a privileged sectarian majority. Much like PIRA claiming the GFA as a victory , the free staters claimed victory in 1921-whereas in reality they had been sold a pup.

They had achieved an advance, although the British prevented justice from being achieved.

QuoteOnly involvement in the EC , shady government in the 80s,90s,00s and external Investment due to favourable tax environment, turned the economy around. As a fledgling "country" it wasn't easy , and abuse scandals, poor health service , influence of the Catholic Church and neglect of northern nationalists are examples  of how ROI has failed.

The economy was as good as it had been under the British. In a democratic society people get the government they want and they wanted influence by the Catholic church.

QuoteA United ireland is now a "penalty kick". Uk would jump at it, but ironically the biggest barrier is northern nationalists who aren't working hard enough to persuade unionists and freestaters that it makes sense.

This is all too true sadly. There is a complete lack of leadership in 6 country nationalism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 07:48:39 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 01:39:30 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 01:25:16 AM

Even the most cursory analysis of the economy of the island in 1921 indicates that ireland was completely duped into declaring a partitioned "free state". Having shafted Ireland to such an extent that our population literally halved from the famine, the British came to the ingenious conclusion that they could offload the uncooperative Irish in the South, whilst retaining the industrial might of the North and protecting it with a privileged sectarian majority. Much like PIRA claiming the GFA as a victory , the free staters claimed victory in 1921-whereas in reality they had been sold a pup.

They had achieved an advance, although the British prevented justice from being achieved.

QuoteOnly involvement in the EC , shady government in the 80s,90s,00s and external Investment due to favourable tax environment, turned the economy around. As a fledgling "country" it wasn't easy , and abuse scandals, poor health service , influence of the Catholic Church and neglect of northern nationalists are examples  of how ROI has failed.

The economy was as good as it had been under the British. In a democratic society people get the government they want and they wanted influence by the Catholic church.

QuoteA United ireland is now a "penalty kick". Uk would jump at it, but ironically the biggest barrier is northern nationalists who aren't working hard enough to persuade unionists and freestaters that it makes sense.

This is all too true sadly. There is a complete lack of leadership in 6 country nationalism.

Agree on those points , the economy was an absolute mess under British rule/neglect. Bad as things were for nationalists in the North in 1969, 1921 came on the back of shameful rule particularly in the post famine years , when the population halved. The population in the North was less affected, with rural "Catholic " areas on the poorest land most vulnerable. You can understand therefore why the population of the fledgling state were happy to tolerate or even promote the influence of the Catholic Church(whilst the negative influence and scandals surrounding the church are appalling, much of the influence of Catholicism was positive , including promotion of values  such as altruism , stoicism, community spirit.)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 07:50:14 AM
The hypocrisy of people like Sid Waddell is laughable.
Old IRA = Good
New IRA = Bad

This is despite the old IRA killing FOUR times as many policemen and disappearing far more civilians in 3 years than the new IRA did in 30!!!

It just doesn't make sense to laud one as heroes and the other as terrorists. Either they both are or none are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 08:12:29 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 16, 2020, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:51:12 PM
The Old IRA fought for a 26 county free state with an elite Catholic ruling class, a dysfunctional health service, a homeless crisis and huge wealth inequality and injustice, zero hour contracts and mass political corruption.

Sid is very Trumpian in his ideals.

You think? What's your evidence?

I am old enough to have spoken with an old IRA man and that was certainly not his objective.

I'm applying Sid logic who reckons the Old IRA won.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 08:12:44 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 07:50:14 AM
The hypocrisy of people like Sid Waddell is laughable.
Old IRA = Good
New IRA = Bad

This is despite the old IRA killing FOUR times as many policemen and disappearing far more civilians in 3 years than the new IRA did in 30!!!

It just doesn't make sense to laud one as heroes and the other as terrorists. Either they both are or none are.

Sid appears to have a very narrow view, and his lack of understanding/ antagonism directed at northern nationalists, isn't rational no matter how articulate he is. That said there are several differences between the old IRA and PIRA. It's interesting to see how we are still failing to support our victims in the North. Despite old wounds in the South people got on with it, had to accept their differences as they concentrated on putting food on the table. Perhaps the fact it was a shorter war , most people were United rather than divided by religion, and there wasn't excessive culture of commemoration, but erstwhile enemies moved on whilst respecting those before them . In the North it has proved harder to move on. Polarisation, commemoration culture, longer drawn out war, and relatively less poverty than ROI post 1921, could all be factors. One of the biggest issues for me is that northern "nationalists" remain marginalised and would gain most from a United ireland but we remain divided ourselves and we are not doing enough to envisage a New ireland never mind promoting it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 08:14:41 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 07:08:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 06:02:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 16, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 16, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 10:35:27 PM
The IRA was infiltrated at every level right to the very top. We never managed to turn one Brit.
We achieved civil rights, not on the back of IRA violence however, we owe more to john Hume probably for that.
SF became SDLP other than sticking to abstentionism.
We still dont have a UI and maybe only stand a better chance ironically on the back of Brexit - SF were always anti-EU up to 3 years ago

Spin masters are good within SF, i will give them that.
Why would you need to turn any Brits when you're Infiltrated at every level up to the top from the 70s onwards and still able to blow up the city of London.

That was a good operation but to say we blew up the city of London is a stretch, my point on the Brits is that they never embarrassed themselves by switching sides

How would that work?

The Brits were able to infiltrate hoods to join the Provos or they were able to threathen with prison sentences or through other state branches.

The Provos on the other hand were an outlawed paramilitary organisation for an oppressed minority community. Tell me how getting Brits to switch sides would work?

Showed your colours there boy ;)

I note you haven't addressed the question.

You are basically admitting that the structure and leadership of IRA was so poor that they could not even keep hoods never mind MI5 out, anyhow I'm sure many of the families who suffered the death of their family members as part of thia dirty war will be glad you are classing them as hoods. Yes and as you said we were outmuscled intellectually and in every other way which left us with very little chance to turn the tables

How would I know whether they did or not? I never said that and I wouldn't know. We do know that British intelligence recruited hoods to join the IRA and were able to turn high ranking members like Scappaticci.

And you still haven't answered my question.

Oh yes I did, you just can't understand the answer

You didn't and can't. You got found out on a preposterous point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 17, 2020, 08:47:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 16, 2020, 11:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

Why was there a civil war? Are you really that stupid?
I've already explained this

The Civil War was not caused by partition

It was a very peripheral issue at best - the key issue was the oath of allegiance

Like some people take their view of the JFK assassination form the Oliver Stone film which was complete nonsense, this is the "Michael Collins" film version of history

And I have already explained you are talking complete shite, yet again. Talk about west brit revisionism, you are bringing it to a whole other scale.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 09:16:10 AM
The Civil War was all about the fact that the new State wasn't going to be a Republic.
"We will live under no other Law" as Liam Lynch said.
Both sides knew they wouldn't have the North in either a Republic or a Dominion but the Pro Treatyites believed a Boundary Commission would give them large wipes if the 6 Cos.
"Northern Ireland" was already set up by the Brits.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 09:27:01 AM
No comments from the Free Staters about FG eulogising a cold blooded killer like Richard Mulcahy on their official Twitter account yesterday?

Didn't think so, hypocrites from the cradle to the grave.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 09:27:12 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2020, 08:47:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 16, 2020, 11:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

Why was there a civil war? Are you really that stupid?
I've already explained this

The Civil War was not caused by partition

It was a very peripheral issue at best - the key issue was the oath of allegiance

Like some people take their view of the JFK assassination form the Oliver Stone film which was complete nonsense, this is the "Michael Collins" film version of history

And I have already explained you are talking complete shite, yet again. Talk about west brit revisionism, you are bringing it to a whole other scale.

Knowing people involved in the Anglo-Irish war, they didn't give any impression that it was a victory , rather , "unfinished business" , based on a combination of partition and the oath , in that order. Several decades later my family in ROI viewed the treaty as a "sell out" and had no grá for Michael Collins. The impression I got from them was of the futility of war and therefore they did not support future campaigns. The treaty remains our biggest embarrassment as a country. The British having starved us of investment,development and even food for years, breaking all rules of engagement in a campaign of murder and pillage , then duped the freestaters into accepting an impoverished and under developed 26 counties whilst they secured a sectarian foothold in the island, where the bulk of the GDP was. It took ROI almost a century recovering from that, ignoring corruption in the midst of ongoing conflict and death , whilst showing little or no empathy for their marginalised fellow countrymen still living under British rule. Outstanding wordsmith and spin doctor that Sid is, I'm sure he'll continue to claim the treaty as a victory, but in reality he won't even convince himself on this one. I respect elements of what ROI has achieved , particularly on the back of the EC but the treaty had proved a disaster not a victory.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 10:02:16 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 09:27:12 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2020, 08:47:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 16, 2020, 11:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

Why was there a civil war? Are you really that stupid?
I've already explained this

The Civil War was not caused by partition

It was a very peripheral issue at best - the key issue was the oath of allegiance

Like some people take their view of the JFK assassination form the Oliver Stone film which was complete nonsense, this is the "Michael Collins" film version of history

And I have already explained you are talking complete shite, yet again. Talk about west brit revisionism, you are bringing it to a whole other scale.

Knowing people involved in the Anglo-Irish war, they didn't give any impression that it was a victory , rather , "unfinished business" , based on a combination of partition and the oath , in that order. Several decades later my family in ROI viewed the treaty as a "sell out" and had no grá for Michael Collins. The impression I got from them was of the futility of war and therefore they did not support future campaigns. The treaty remains our biggest embarrassment as a country. The British having starved us of investment,development and even food for years, breaking all rules of engagement in a campaign of murder and pillage , then duped the freestaters into accepting an impoverished and under developed 26 counties whilst they secured a sectarian foothold in the island, where the bulk of the GDP was. It took ROI almost a century recovering from that, ignoring corruption in the midst of ongoing conflict and death , whilst showing little or no empathy for their marginalised fellow countrymen still living under British rule. Outstanding wordsmith and spin doctor that Sid is, I'm sure he'll continue to claim the treaty as a victory, but in reality he won't even convince himself on this one. I respect elements of what ROI has achieved , particularly on the back of the EC but the treaty had proved a disaster not a victory.

Agreed ROI has made massive strides and deserves respect in many ways, but their view of the North would not be amongst their greatest characteristics. As for Michael Collins I could never understand how some republicans up here eulogised him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Harold Disgracey on December 17, 2020, 10:05:35 AM
My great-uncles were anti-treaty IRA in the border area, they despised DeValera and always kept a portrait of Collins in the house, I don't know whether or not this had anything to do with Collins covertly arming the IRA in the north and border areas. I also had relatives involved in the PIRA campaign, they all believed they were fighting for the same idea, a 32 county republic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 10:29:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 08:05:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2020, 06:20:35 PM
If killing civilians is enough to make you condemn the PIRA campaign, surely you'll have no problem condemning the Old IRA campaign, given that they targetted a higher proportion of civilians?

Just a reminder, Sid, that you still haven't taken the opportunity to answer the above question.

Let's hear it.
I condemn civilian murder but the old IRA's overall campaign as a whole can be reasonably argued to be morally justifiable because there was a reasonably justifiable casus belli, the war was short - those waging it were mindful that the population was at breaking point by summer 1921 - it had the support of the people, and because it had a very good chance of winning - and it did win

The PIRA campaign was totally unjustified because it had zero chance of success, did not have the support of the people, and there were peaceful alternatives available - when you add these things together, it therefore could not have a justifiable casus belli

The two campaigns as a whole are morally not equivalent at all

These are the nuances you and Franko just don't get - youse have a totally simplistic, wrong understanding of what makes a just conflict as a whole - these are the sort of nuances which can be applied to all conflict worldwide

Your argument is like trying to justify the US invading Iraq because they invaded Germany in 1945, so therefore they are morally equivalent - they aren't

The actual moral similarity is between the PIRA campaign and the disso campaign which murdered Ronan Kerr and Lyra McKee

They have the exact same aims, they exact same methods, the exact same chance of success

Your Germany/Iraq analogy is nonsensical.  That you would think it is plausible only demonstrates how desperately you are grasping for something which would vindicate your duplicity on this issue.

Now, as no condemnation seems to be forthcoming, YOUR OWN LOGIC dictates that you must support the disappearance of civilians by the old IRA.

You've got yourself into a fine mess here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 10:43:13 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 10:29:44 AM

Your Germany/Iraq analogy is nonsensical. 
But how?

Your logic is: some really terrible stuff went on during the War Of Independence, therefore there can be no difference at all between the War of Independence and the 28 year PIRA campaign

Some really terrible stuff went on during World War II on the Allied side, therefore there can be no difference at all between World War II and the war in Iraq - or Vietnam, Afghanistan etc.

It's literally the exact same logic

It's a total destruction of critical thinking

And it's also a carte blanche for dissos right now
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 10:46:40 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:14:14 AM
P.s. I see you are again spouting the notion that there was a peaceful route available to nationalists in the north to achieve what were have today. You keep ignoring the whole Bloody Sunday thing. It's actually kinda relevant in any discussion about how Britain responded to peaceful nationalist protestors in the north of Ireland.
There was

India had Amritsar

South Africa had Sharpeville

The US had Tulsa

And many more

Your lesson from Bloody Sunday was that the slaughter of innocents in Derry therefore justified the slaughter of more innocents

How were Claudy and Bloody Friday the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 10:58:49 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 01:25:16 AM

Even the most cursory analysis of the economy of the island in 1921 indicates that ireland was completely duped into declaring a partitioned "free state". Having shafted Ireland to such an extent that our population literally halved from the famine, the British came to the ingenious conclusion that they could offload the uncooperative Irish in the South, whilst retaining the industrial might of the North and protecting it with a privileged sectarian majority. Much like Some republicans claiming the GFA as a victory , the free staters claimed victory in 1921-whereas in reality they had been sold a pup. Only involvement in the EC , dubious government in the 80s,90s,00s and external Investment due to favourable tax environment, turned the economy around. As a fledgling "country" it wasn't easy , and abuse scandals, poor health service , influence of the Catholic Church and neglect of northern nationalists are examples  of how ROI has failed. However Ni has completely failed or at least run it's  course. Sectarian majority is now gone, the economy remains heavily subsidised, and English nationalists in power in Westminster will try to offload Ni , and the remaining unionist population which is a millstone round their neck. Offloading NI would be a legacy of which Boris would be proud.
A United ireland is now a "penalty kick". Uk would jump at it, but ironically the biggest barrier is northern nationalists who aren't working hard enough to persuade unionists and "freestaters" that it makes sense.
A 32 county Republic was totally unachievable through war because the majority of the people in the northeastern part of the island were against it

It would have required a sectarian slaughter on an unimaginable scale, including numerous Srebrenica style events

That could not be morally justifiable, and practical terms it was impossible anyway - the British Empire was a much more powerful foe than the Bosnian Muslims

Therefore you take the victory available to you

Territorial disputes rarely if ever result in one party getting all of what they want

There's no comparison between the Treaty and the GFA - the old IRA gained most of what they wanted in the Treaty, the PIRA gained little of value in the GFA

In reality, the anti-Treaty side were like the DUP after the GFA - they didn't didn't participate in negotiations and chose to believe they had lost, even though in reality they had actually won

The logic that says there is an inherent state of nature where the island of Ireland is one political unit is the same logic that led Hitler into invading Czechosolvakia
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:04:14 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2020, 08:47:18 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 16, 2020, 11:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

Why was there a civil war? Are you really that stupid?
I've already explained this

The Civil War was not caused by partition

It was a very peripheral issue at best - the key issue was the oath of allegiance

Like some people take their view of the JFK assassination form the Oliver Stone film which was complete nonsense, this is the "Michael Collins" film version of history

And I have already explained you are talking complete shite, yet again. Talk about west brit revisionism, you are bringing it to a whole other scale.
You haven't explained

You've written statements of your opinion , which is ahistorical and simply wrong

Your view of history is straight from the Neil Jordan Michael Collins film
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 11:11:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 10:46:40 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:14:14 AM
P.s. I see you are again spouting the notion that there was a peaceful route available to nationalists in the north to achieve what were have today. You keep ignoring the whole Bloody Sunday thing. It's actually kinda relevant in any discussion about how Britain responded to peaceful nationalist protestors in the north of Ireland.
There was

India had Amritsar

South Africa had Sharpeville

The US had Tulsa

And many more

Your lesson from Bloody Sunday was that the slaughter of innocents in Derry therefore justified the slaughter of more innocents

How were Claudy and Bloody Friday the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday?

And your view, from the distance, comfort and safety of the Free State, was for more peaceful protestors in the north to risk getting mown down. I know I've asked you this before and you haven't yet answered (shocking), but you said that change for nationalists was possible form 1972. Oblivious to the fact that that was the very year 14 civil rights protesters were murdered by the British army. So let's (again) break that suggestion down:

After Bloody Sunday, the British were under immense, international pressure, to end their discriminatory regime. They didn't bow under that international pressure. So how, precisely, could peaceful nationalist protesters (who were beaten down after Bloody Sunday) go on to peacefully achieve, by the end of the same year, the conditions we have today, when the pressure of the entire international community wasn't sufficient to achieve this? I'd just love to hear the steps involved.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:11:50 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 07:50:14 AM
The hypocrisy of people like Sid Waddell is laughable.
Old IRA = Good
New IRA = Bad

This is despite the old IRA killing FOUR times as many policemen and disappearing far more civilians in 3 years than the new IRA did in 30!!!

It just doesn't make sense to laud one as heroes and the other as terrorists. Either they both are or none are.
But I haven't said the old IRA were "good"

I said there were several reasons why their campaign was more morally justifiable than the PIRA's campaign

Your logic literally is: either all wars are justifiable or none are

But that would be to totally demolish any sort of critical thinking
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 11:11:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 10:46:40 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:14:14 AM
P.s. I see you are again spouting the notion that there was a peaceful route available to nationalists in the north to achieve what were have today. You keep ignoring the whole Bloody Sunday thing. It's actually kinda relevant in any discussion about how Britain responded to peaceful nationalist protestors in the north of Ireland.
There was

India had Amritsar

South Africa had Sharpeville

The US had Tulsa

And many more

Your lesson from Bloody Sunday was that the slaughter of innocents in Derry therefore justified the slaughter of more innocents

How were Claudy and Bloody Friday the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday?

And your view, from the distance, comfort and safety of the Free State, was for more peaceful protestors in the north to risk getting mown down. I know I've asked you this before and you haven't yet answered (shocking), but you said that change for nationalists was possible form 1972. Oblivious to the fact that that was the very year 14 civil rights protesters were murdered by the British army. So let's (again) break that suggestion down:

After Bloody Sunday, the British were under immense, international pressure, to end their discriminatory regime. They didn't bow under that international pressure. So how, precisely, could peaceful nationalist protesters (who were beaten down after Bloody Sunday) go on to peacefully achieve, by the end of the same year, the conditions we have today, when the pressure of the entire international community wasn't sufficient to achieve this? I'd just love to hear the steps involved.
But you haven't dealt with the examples I gave nor have you answered the questions I put

The only real long term strategy available to Northern Catholics was peaceful mobilisation

The problem with your ideas is that you believe there was a click your fingers quick fix magic bullet available

There wasn't

Peaceful struggle involves long years of mobilisation, struggle and endurance

Ironically endurance was the strategy of the IRA - they believed they could out endure the Brits - but they were totally wrong, with disastrous consequences

I asked you why Claudy and Bloody Friday were an appropriate response to Bloody Sunday, ie. why more dead civilians on the streets of rural Derry and Belfast was the answer to dead civilians on the streets of Derry City

You haven't answered that

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 11:26:04 AM
Sid continues to be the only poster on here justifying the murder of civilians.

He's been given countless opportunities to address this but hasn't (as he is a hypocrite).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:27:51 AM
In terms of continued peaceful mobilisation, one of the key advantages would be that it would likely have largely won over mainstream British public opinion, which would have forced the UK Govermment's hand as regards equality in NI

But mainstream British public opinion was never going to be won over by bombing and maiming, was it?

Unsurprisingly the British public treated the PIRA as the enemy because they were bombing British cities and killing British soldiers and killing prominent MPs and members of the Royal Family

That's not a good way to win over people to your cause





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 11:28:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 11:11:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 10:46:40 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:14:14 AM
P.s. I see you are again spouting the notion that there was a peaceful route available to nationalists in the north to achieve what were have today. You keep ignoring the whole Bloody Sunday thing. It's actually kinda relevant in any discussion about how Britain responded to peaceful nationalist protestors in the north of Ireland.
There was

India had Amritsar

South Africa had Sharpeville

The US had Tulsa

And many more

Your lesson from Bloody Sunday was that the slaughter of innocents in Derry therefore justified the slaughter of more innocents

How were Claudy and Bloody Friday the appropriate response to Bloody Sunday?

And your view, from the distance, comfort and safety of the Free State, was for more peaceful protestors in the north to risk getting mown down. I know I've asked you this before and you haven't yet answered (shocking), but you said that change for nationalists was possible form 1972. Oblivious to the fact that that was the very year 14 civil rights protesters were murdered by the British army. So let's (again) break that suggestion down:

After Bloody Sunday, the British were under immense, international pressure, to end their discriminatory regime. They didn't bow under that international pressure. So how, precisely, could peaceful nationalist protesters (who were beaten down after Bloody Sunday) go on to peacefully achieve, by the end of the same year, the conditions we have today, when the pressure of the entire international community wasn't sufficient to achieve this? I'd just love to hear the steps involved.
But you haven't dealt with the examples I gave nor have you answered the questions I put

The only real long term strategy available to Northern Catholics was peaceful mobilisation

The problem with your ideas is that you believe there was a click your fingers quick fix magic bullet available

There wasn't

Peaceful struggle involves long years of mobilisation, struggle and endurance

Ironically endurance was the strategy of the IRA - they believed they could out endure the Brits - but they were totally wrong, with disastrous consequences

I asked you why Claudy and Bloody Friday were an appropriate response to Bloody Sunday, ie. why more dead civilians on the streets of rural Derry and Belfast was the answer to dead civilians on the streets of Derry City

You haven't answered that

Yet the Old IRA had no problem killing civilians in reprisals yet you justify that. Hyp-o-crite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:28:59 AM
Keep shouting at your own reflection, Angelo  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 08:12:44 AM

Sid appears to have a very narrow view, and his lack of understanding/ antagonism directed at northern nationalists, isn't rational no matter how articulate he is. That said there are several differences between the old IRA and PIRA. It's interesting to see how we are still failing to support our victims in the North. Despite old wounds in the South people got on with it, had to accept their differences as they concentrated on putting food on the table. Perhaps the fact it was a shorter war , most people were United rather than divided by religion, and there wasn't excessive culture of commemoration, but erstwhile enemies moved on whilst respecting those before them . In the North it has proved harder to move on. Polarisation, commemoration culture, longer drawn out war, and relatively less poverty than ROI post 1921, could all be factors. One of the biggest issues for me is that northern "nationalists" remain marginalised and would gain most from a United ireland but we remain divided ourselves and we are not doing enough to envisage a New ireland never mind promoting it.
I actually agree with most of your post there but you lose credibility with the personal attack on me and mischaracterisation of my opinions at the start of it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 11:42:20 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:28:59 AM
Keep shouting at your own reflection, Angelo  ;D

I'll keep the spotlight on how you haven't a shred of credibility, every post you make is a contradiction of an earlier one you made. Your faux outrage and faux morals are there for all to see.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
But you haven't dealt with the examples I gave nor have you answered the questions I put

The only real long term strategy available to Northern Catholics was peaceful mobilisation

The problem with your ideas is that you believe there was a click your fingers quick fix magic bullet available

There wasn't
Mobalisation? The biggest mobalisation strategy of Catholics in 1972 was to flee across the border for safety and a roof over their heads. In 1972 - the year you have ludicrously claimed Catholics could have turned things around by (and you accuse me of believing there was a quick fix solution available!) - there were 10,000 refugees living in refugee camps across the border. Maybe it hasn't dawned on you that staying at home to protest wasn't an option for thousands upon thousands of nationalists when they often didn't have a home to remain in. Of course, the actual reality of life for the nationalist people on the ground in the north is of no concern what-so-ever to you - hence your proposition that they continue to live under the boot and meekly protest about it. Your only concern is to take a sanctimonious, hypocritical, judgmental 'not-in-my-name' attitude to a conflict that you've been spoon-fed a Section 31 diet of lies about throughout the duration of, presumably because it helps you deal with the inner guilt you feel for your own slice of free state freedom being won for you by another armed campaign (that included acts of savage brutality and war crimes) which you feel you cannot condemn.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
Peaceful struggle involves long years of mobilisation, struggle and endurance
Well sure why didn't the people of Ireland just engage in moral, peaceful protest in 1916 or 1918?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
I asked you why Claudy and Bloody Friday were an appropriate response to Bloody Sunday,
I've stated umpteen times that the targeting of civilians in a conflict, no matter how justifiable the conflict, is utterly reprehensible. That's the difference in us. You can't seem to make that distinction. You believe that if someone believes the PIRA campaign was justifiable, that every action they carried out in it was justifiable. By that logic, anyone who believes the allies were justified in taking part in WW2 must then believe the carpet bombing Dresden was acceptable. Or that anyone who believes that the Old IRA campaign was justifiable must therefor regard their disappearing 100-200 mostly innocent civilians was acceptable, especially, according to you, if they do so with great efficiency.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 11:51:47 AM
98 years ago today the last British soldiers went home from the new Irish Free State.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 11:55:19 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 11:49:19 AM

I've stated umpteen times that the targeting of civilians in a conflict, no matter how justifiable the conflict, is utterly reprehensible. That's the difference in us. You can't seem to make that distinction. You believe that if someone believes the PIRA campaign was justifiable, that every action they carried out in it was justifiable. By that logic, anyone who believes the allies were justified in taking part in WW2 must then believe the carpet bombing Dresden was acceptable. Or that anyone who believes that the Old IRA campaign was justifiable must therefor approve of their disappearing 100-200 mostly innocent civilians was acceptable, especially, according to you, if they do so with great efficiency.

+1

Sid continues to be the only poster here who tries to justify the murder of civilians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
But you haven't dealt with the examples I gave nor have you answered the questions I put

The only real long term strategy available to Northern Catholics was peaceful mobilisation

The problem with your ideas is that you believe there was a click your fingers quick fix magic bullet available

There wasn't
Mobalisation? The biggest mobalisation strategy of Catholics in 1972 was to flee across the border for safety and a roof over their heads. In 1972 - the year you have ludicrously claimed Catholics could have turned things around by (and you accuse me of believing there was a quick fix solution available!) - there were 10,000 refugees living in refugee camps across the border. Maybe it hasn't dawned on you that staying at home to protest wasn't an option for thousands upon thousands of nationalists when they often didn't have a home to remain in. Of course, the actual reality of life for the nationalist people on the ground in the north is of no concern what-so-ever to you - hence your proposition that they continue to live under the boot and meekly protest about it. Your only concern is to take a sanctimonious, hypocritical, judgmental 'not-in-my-name' attitude to a conflict that you've been spoon-fed a Section 31 diet of lies about throughout the duration of, presumably because it helps you deal with the inner guilt you feel for your own slice of free state freedom being won for you by another armed campaign (that included acts of savage brutality and war crimes) which you feel you cannot condemn.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
Peaceful struggle involves long years of mobilisation, struggle and endurance
Well sure why didn't the people of Ireland just engage in moral, peaceful protest in 1916 or 1918?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
I asked you why Claudy and Bloody Friday were an appropriate response to Bloody Sunday,
I've stated umpteen times that the targeting of civilians in a conflict, no matter how justifiable the conflict, is utterly reprehensible. That's the difference in us. You can't seem to make that distinction. You believe that if someone believes the PIRA campaign was justifiable, that every action they carried out in it was justifiable. By that logic, anyone who believes the allies were justified in taking part in WW2 must then believe the carpet bombing Dresden was acceptable. Or that anyone who believes that the Old IRA campaign was justifiable must therefor approve of their disappearing 100-200 mostly innocent civilians was acceptable, especially, according to you, if they do so with great efficiency.
Sorry but this whole argument started because people like yourself objected to the notion that there was a different way for Northern Catholics/Nationalists to advance their cause other than a 28 year campaign of violence of which sectarian slaughter was an integral part

But there was, it would not have been instant, it would not have been easy, but had peace been the modus operandi, they would have achieved everything that's there now, and likely a lot quicker

They had essential righteousness and justice on their side - but that went out the window when the PIRA started bombing and shooting

Claudy and Bloody Friday were exactly the wrong responses to Bloody Sunday

Funny you mention the refugees because I bet anything you saw that the other day on the "censored" RTE website (RTE is the virus, remember) - reporting by Kevin Myers, incidentally

Again you're on with your reductio ad absurdum ideas about war in general
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:09:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 10:43:13 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 10:29:44 AM

Your Germany/Iraq analogy is nonsensical. 
But how?

Your logic is: some really terrible stuff went on during the War Of Independence, therefore there can be no difference at all between the War of Independence and the 28 year PIRA campaign

Some really terrible stuff went on during World War II on the Allied side, therefore there can be no difference at all between World War II and the war in Iraq - or Vietnam, Afghanistan etc.

It's literally the exact same logic

It's a total destruction of critical thinking

And it's also a carte blanche for dissos right now

It's really not.

I notice you failed to quote or respond to the rest of my post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:36:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Sorry but this whole argument started because people like yourself objected to the notion that there was a different way for Northern Catholics/Nationalists to advance their cause other than a 28 year campaign of violence of which sectarian slaughter was an integral part
But there was, it would not have been instant, it would not have been easy, but had peace been the modus operandi, they would have achieved everything that's there now, and likely a lot quicker
It might not have been instant? You have repeatedly said "early 70's" and have even suggested by 1972. You keep saying there was another way but you steadfastly and conveniently refuse to outline the steps. I keep asking you how nationalists could have peacefully achieved by 1972 what the international pressure of the whole world couldn't achieve. "I don't know, they just could have" doesn't really cut it I'm afraid. Bear in mind too, that unionism refused to even share power with the electoral representatives of peaceful nationalism until the 1990's. So what on earth makes you think they'd have been happy to have done so any sooner, let alone in the early 1970's ffs?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
They had essential righteousness and justice on their side - but that went out the window when the PIRA started bombing and shooting
So the IRA campaign meant the plight of nationalists in the six counties was no longer righteous? Interesting take, that one.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Claudy and Bloody Friday were exactly the wrong responses to Bloody Sunday
Didn't I already say they were unjustifiable? All justifiable military campaigns contain unjustifiable actions within it. Read about the Old IRA campaign sometime, why don't you?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Funny you mention the refugees because I bet anything you saw that the other day on the "censored" RTE website (RTE is the virus, remember) - reporting by Kevin Myers,
You'd make a poor gambler. I didn't see any report on the RTÉ website. I'm old enough to have lived through the events you heard about on a Section 31 censored media.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:09:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 10:43:13 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 10:29:44 AM

Your Germany/Iraq analogy is nonsensical. 
But how?

Your logic is: some really terrible stuff went on during the War Of Independence, therefore there can be no difference at all between the War of Independence and the 28 year PIRA campaign

Some really terrible stuff went on during World War II on the Allied side, therefore there can be no difference at all between World War II and the war in Iraq - or Vietnam, Afghanistan etc.

It's literally the exact same logic

It's a total destruction of critical thinking

And it's also a carte blanche for dissos right now

It's really not.

I notice you failed to quote or respond to the rest of my post.
What else is there to respond to?

This is your core claim, the reductio ad absurdum idea that any war can be justified by whataboutery

It absolutely does reduce everything to the claim the current dissos would make

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:36:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Sorry but this whole argument started because people like yourself objected to the notion that there was a different way for Northern Catholics/Nationalists to advance their cause other than a 28 year campaign of violence of which sectarian slaughter was an integral part
But there was, it would not have been instant, it would not have been easy, but had peace been the modus operandi, they would have achieved everything that's there now, and likely a lot quicker
It might not have been instant? You have repeatedly said "early 70's" and have even suggested by 1972. You keep saying there was another way but you steadfastly and conveniently refuse to outline the steps. I keep asking you how nationalists could have peacefully achieved by 1972 what the international pressure of the whole world couldn't achieve. "I don't know, they just could have" doesn't really cut it I'm afraid. Bear in mind too, that unionism refused to even share power with the electoral representatives of peaceful nationalism until the 1990's. So what on earth makes you think they'd have been happy to have done so any sooner, let alone in the early 1970's ffs?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
They had essential righteousness and justice on their side - but that went out the window when the PIRA started bombing and shooting
So the IRA campaign meant the plight of nationalists in the six counties was no longer righteous? Interesting take, that one.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Claudy and Bloody Friday were exactly the wrong responses to Bloody Sunday
Didn't I already say they were unjustifiable? All justifiable military campaigns contain unjustifiable actions within it. Read about the Old IRA campaign sometime, why don't you?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Funny you mention the refugees because I bet anything you saw that the other day on the "censored" RTE website (RTE is the virus, remember) - reporting by Kevin Myers,
You'd make a poor gambler. I didn't see any report on the RTÉ website. I'm old enough to have lived through the events you heard about on a Section 31 censored media.
Step i) in a peaceful campaign: not bombing people, especially civilians, to death

That would have been a very good start

Step i) in the PIRA's campaign was bomb, shoot and maim

Step i) was repeated over and over and over until 1997

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
But you haven't dealt with the examples I gave nor have you answered the questions I put

The only real long term strategy available to Northern Catholics was peaceful mobilisation

The problem with your ideas is that you believe there was a click your fingers quick fix magic bullet available

There wasn't
Mobalisation? The biggest mobalisation strategy of Catholics in 1972 was to flee across the border for safety and a roof over their heads. In 1972 - the year you have ludicrously claimed Catholics could have turned things around by (and you accuse me of believing there was a quick fix solution available!) - there were 10,000 refugees living in refugee camps across the border. Maybe it hasn't dawned on you that staying at home to protest wasn't an option for thousands upon thousands of nationalists when they often didn't have a home to remain in. Of course, the actual reality of life for the nationalist people on the ground in the north is of no concern what-so-ever to you - hence your proposition that they continue to live under the boot and meekly protest about it. Your only concern is to take a sanctimonious, hypocritical, judgmental 'not-in-my-name' attitude to a conflict that you've been spoon-fed a Section 31 diet of lies about throughout the duration of, presumably because it helps you deal with the inner guilt you feel for your own slice of free state freedom being won for you by another armed campaign (that included acts of savage brutality and war crimes) which you feel you cannot condemn.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
Peaceful struggle involves long years of mobilisation, struggle and endurance
Well sure why didn't the people of Ireland just engage in moral, peaceful protest in 1916 or 1918?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
I asked you why Claudy and Bloody Friday were an appropriate response to Bloody Sunday,
I've stated umpteen times that the targeting of civilians in a conflict, no matter how justifiable the conflict, is utterly reprehensible. That's the difference in us. You can't seem to make that distinction. You believe that if someone believes the PIRA campaign was justifiable, that every action they carried out in it was justifiable. By that logic, anyone who believes the allies were justified in taking part in WW2 must then believe the carpet bombing Dresden was acceptable. Or that anyone who believes that the Old IRA campaign was justifiable must therefor approve of their disappearing 100-200 mostly innocent civilians was acceptable, especially, according to you, if they do so with great efficiency.
Sorry but this whole argument started because people like yourself objected to the notion that there was a different way for Northern Catholics/Nationalists to advance their cause other than a 28 year campaign of violence of which sectarian slaughter was an integral part

But there was, it would not have been instant, it would not have been easy, but had peace been the modus operandi, they would have achieved everything that's there now, and likely a lot quicker

They had essential righteousness and justice on their side - but that went out the window when the PIRA started bombing and shooting

Claudy and Bloody Friday were exactly the wrong responses to Bloody Sunday

Funny you mention the refugees because I bet anything you saw that the other day on the "censored" RTE website (RTE is the virus, remember) - reporting by Kevin Myers, incidentally

Again you're on with your reductio ad absurdum ideas about war in general

No it didn't.

This started because you and few of your fellow onlookers have decided that SF are not fit for government in the 26, due to their association with/involvement in the Provisional IRA campaign, because sectarian murder of civilians formed part of this campaign.

Posters are pointing out the simple truth, that if you apply this criteria the following MUST also be true

FG and FF are not fit for government in the 26, due to their association with/involvement in the Old IRA campaign, because sectarian murder of civilians formed part of this campaign.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

This is the level of idiocy you deal in.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fine-gael-council-candidate-dylan-hutchinson-confronted-by-jennifer-carroll-macneill-over-derogatory-snapchat-post-zh5vmg9hv

Don't let facts get in the way of you exposing yourself as a dimwit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

This is the level of idiocy you deal in.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fine-gael-council-candidate-dylan-hutchinson-confronted-by-jennifer-carroll-macneill-over-derogatory-snapchat-post-zh5vmg9hv

Don't let facts get in the way of you exposing yourself as a dimwit.
Ooh, personal abuse now

The Sinn Fein way
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

This is the level of idiocy you deal in.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fine-gael-council-candidate-dylan-hutchinson-confronted-by-jennifer-carroll-macneill-over-derogatory-snapchat-post-zh5vmg9hv

Don't let facts get in the way of you exposing yourself as a dimwit.
Ooh, personal abuse now

The Sinn Fein way

Wise up, you called me a fascist I wasn't fully on board the Biden bandwagon and said the 88 in my username stood for Heil Hitler or some crap.. So take that dung somewhere else.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

This is the level of idiocy you deal in.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fine-gael-council-candidate-dylan-hutchinson-confronted-by-jennifer-carroll-macneill-over-derogatory-snapchat-post-zh5vmg9hv

Don't let facts get in the way of you exposing yourself as a dimwit.
Ooh, personal abuse now

The Sinn Fein way

Wise up, you called me a fascist I wasn't fully on board the Biden bandwagon and said the 88 in my username stood for Heil Hitler or some crap.. So take that dung somewhere else.

You support fascist policies in relation to the US

You laughed at children being caged and separated from their parents and your rhetoric was consistently pro-Trump

Therefore calling you a supporter of fascism is a statement of fact - not personal abuse

And a supporter of fascism is a fascist

Own it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 01:08:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

This is the level of idiocy you deal in.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fine-gael-council-candidate-dylan-hutchinson-confronted-by-jennifer-carroll-macneill-over-derogatory-snapchat-post-zh5vmg9hv

Don't let facts get in the way of you exposing yourself as a dimwit.
Ooh, personal abuse now

The Sinn Fein way

Wise up, you called me a fascist I wasn't fully on board the Biden bandwagon and said the 88 in my username stood for Heil Hitler or some crap.. So take that dung somewhere else.

You support fascist policies in relation to the US

You laughed at children being caged and separated from their parents and your rhetoric was consistently pro-Trump

Therefore calling you a supporter of fascism is a statement of fact - not personal abuse

And a supporter of fascism is a fascist

Own it

I never laughed at children in cages...what??
I said they were sanctioned by Obama, which is true.
Muting you now because you arent worth engaging with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

This is the level of idiocy you deal in.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fine-gael-council-candidate-dylan-hutchinson-confronted-by-jennifer-carroll-macneill-over-derogatory-snapchat-post-zh5vmg9hv

Don't let facts get in the way of you exposing yourself as a dimwit.
Ooh, personal abuse now

The Sinn Fein way

I'm just being frank.

You're the one engages in insults and projects his own shortcomings, infantile behaviour and inability to debate on others.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 01:08:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

This is the level of idiocy you deal in.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fine-gael-council-candidate-dylan-hutchinson-confronted-by-jennifer-carroll-macneill-over-derogatory-snapchat-post-zh5vmg9hv

Don't let facts get in the way of you exposing yourself as a dimwit.
Ooh, personal abuse now

The Sinn Fein way

Wise up, you called me a fascist I wasn't fully on board the Biden bandwagon and said the 88 in my username stood for Heil Hitler or some crap.. So take that dung somewhere else.

You support fascist policies in relation to the US

You laughed at children being caged and separated from their parents and your rhetoric was consistently pro-Trump

Therefore calling you a supporter of fascism is a statement of fact - not personal abuse

And a supporter of fascism is a fascist

Own it

I never laughed at children in cages...what??
I said they were sanctioned by Obama, which is true.
Muting you now because you arent worth engaging with.
Separation was not sanctioned under Obama, but also I am not here to defend the serious failings that happened under Obama

You did laugh

The way you cloaked it was "I'm laughing at the people who will be angered if Trump wins"

But the people who would have been angered had Trump won, including me, would have been angry precisely because it would have meant a continuation of things like forced child separation which has resulted in the deaths of children

So you think being angered at forced child separation is funny

The way you frame your laughing is the classic way a fascist coward cloaks an utterly abhorrent opinion
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 01:19:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 01:08:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

This is the level of idiocy you deal in.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fine-gael-council-candidate-dylan-hutchinson-confronted-by-jennifer-carroll-macneill-over-derogatory-snapchat-post-zh5vmg9hv

Don't let facts get in the way of you exposing yourself as a dimwit.
Ooh, personal abuse now

The Sinn Fein way

Wise up, you called me a fascist I wasn't fully on board the Biden bandwagon and said the 88 in my username stood for Heil Hitler or some crap.. So take that dung somewhere else.

You support fascist policies in relation to the US

You laughed at children being caged and separated from their parents and your rhetoric was consistently pro-Trump

Therefore calling you a supporter of fascism is a statement of fact - not personal abuse

And a supporter of fascism is a fascist

Own it

I never laughed at children in cages...what??
I said they were sanctioned by Obama, which is true.
Muting you now because you arent worth engaging with.
Separation was not sanctioned under Obama, but also I am not here to defend the serious failings that happened under Obama

You did laugh

The way you cloaked it was "I'm laughing at the people who will be angered if Trump wins"

But the people who would have been angered had Trump won, including me, would have been angry precisely because it would have meant a continuation of things like forced child separation which has resulted in the deaths of children

So you think being angered at forced child separation is funny

The way you frame your laughing is the classic way a fascist coward cloaks an utterly abhorrent opinion

Weren't or aren't you also a big fan of that beast Bill Clinton?

Y
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party"  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party"  ;D
But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:36:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Sorry but this whole argument started because people like yourself objected to the notion that there was a different way for Northern Catholics/Nationalists to advance their cause other than a 28 year campaign of violence of which sectarian slaughter was an integral part
But there was, it would not have been instant, it would not have been easy, but had peace been the modus operandi, they would have achieved everything that's there now, and likely a lot quicker
It might not have been instant? You have repeatedly said "early 70's" and have even suggested by 1972. You keep saying there was another way but you steadfastly and conveniently refuse to outline the steps. I keep asking you how nationalists could have peacefully achieved by 1972 what the international pressure of the whole world couldn't achieve. "I don't know, they just could have" doesn't really cut it I'm afraid. Bear in mind too, that unionism refused to even share power with the electoral representatives of peaceful nationalism until the 1990's. So what on earth makes you think they'd have been happy to have done so any sooner, let alone in the early 1970's ffs?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
They had essential righteousness and justice on their side - but that went out the window when the PIRA started bombing and shooting
So the IRA campaign meant the plight of nationalists in the six counties was no longer righteous? Interesting take, that one.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Claudy and Bloody Friday were exactly the wrong responses to Bloody Sunday
Didn't I already say they were unjustifiable? All justifiable military campaigns contain unjustifiable actions within it. Read about the Old IRA campaign sometime, why don't you?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Funny you mention the refugees because I bet anything you saw that the other day on the "censored" RTE website (RTE is the virus, remember) - reporting by Kevin Myers,
You'd make a poor gambler. I didn't see any report on the RTÉ website. I'm old enough to have lived through the events you heard about on a Section 31 censored media.
Step i) in a peaceful campaign: not bombing people, especially civilians, to death

That would have been a very good start

Step i) in the PIRA's campaign was bomb, shoot and maim

Step i) was repeated over and over and over until 1997

As I suspected. You can't. Again, unionism wouldn't even share power with peaceful nationalism until in to the 90's. To think that they'd have done so by 1972, without grounding that claim in any form of logical reasoning whatsoever, is just laughable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:29:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 12:36:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Sorry but this whole argument started because people like yourself objected to the notion that there was a different way for Northern Catholics/Nationalists to advance their cause other than a 28 year campaign of violence of which sectarian slaughter was an integral part
But there was, it would not have been instant, it would not have been easy, but had peace been the modus operandi, they would have achieved everything that's there now, and likely a lot quicker
It might not have been instant? You have repeatedly said "early 70's" and have even suggested by 1972. You keep saying there was another way but you steadfastly and conveniently refuse to outline the steps. I keep asking you how nationalists could have peacefully achieved by 1972 what the international pressure of the whole world couldn't achieve. "I don't know, they just could have" doesn't really cut it I'm afraid. Bear in mind too, that unionism refused to even share power with the electoral representatives of peaceful nationalism until the 1990's. So what on earth makes you think they'd have been happy to have done so any sooner, let alone in the early 1970's ffs?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
They had essential righteousness and justice on their side - but that went out the window when the PIRA started bombing and shooting
So the IRA campaign meant the plight of nationalists in the six counties was no longer righteous? Interesting take, that one.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Claudy and Bloody Friday were exactly the wrong responses to Bloody Sunday
Didn't I already say they were unjustifiable? All justifiable military campaigns contain unjustifiable actions within it. Read about the Old IRA campaign sometime, why don't you?

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:03:10 PM
Funny you mention the refugees because I bet anything you saw that the other day on the "censored" RTE website (RTE is the virus, remember) - reporting by Kevin Myers,
You'd make a poor gambler. I didn't see any report on the RTÉ website. I'm old enough to have lived through the events you heard about on a Section 31 censored media.
Step i) in a peaceful campaign: not bombing people, especially civilians, to death

That would have been a very good start

Step i) in the PIRA's campaign was bomb, shoot and maim

Step i) was repeated over and over and over until 1997

As I suspected. You can't. Again, unionism wouldn't even share power with peaceful nationalism until in to the 90's. To think that they'd have done so by 1972, without grounding that claim in any form of logical reasoning whatsoever, is just laughable.
I never said they would have done so by 1972 - but nice straw man to argue against

Now go and argue against the non-existent poster who claimed that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Look-Up! on December 17, 2020, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:44:01 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 11:34:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 15, 2020, 07:38:24 PM

The total denial of the media and governments as to what was happening also fuelled the anger and sense of inequality. The dogs on the street knew British security forces were in collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries but to say this to most people from the Free State until only very recently they would laugh in your face. To say it to an English person they would have you committed. Media spin is a powerful thing.

Utter nonsense

People in the Republic long believed there was Loyalist/British collusion, especially as the single most devastating event of the entire Troubles took place in the Republic
Ah so the Dublin bombing was a hot topic now, not swept under the carpet. Sorry, my mistake.

Let me guess, the bastions of truth keeping people informed with accurate and free information in the relentless pursuit of justice. The BBC and RTE?
Your assertion is simply wrong

The Dublin government caved as regards pushing to find out the real truth of the bombings

But pretty much everybody down here believed there was British involvement from the get go

Open to correction but as far as I remember it was an ITV documentary in 1993 that contained the first real substantiation of this

The carping about BBC and RTE from Shinners is reminiscent of the Gembots

All yis are missing is an "RTE is the virus" avatar

BBC and RTE both had and have plenty of faults but yis sound like Celtic supporters going on about freemasons, yis sound nuts
Not in my experience. Even today if you stopped 10 random people in a southern Irish town and asked them what the B Specials were they wouldn't have a clue. You'd do better on the Dublin bombings (due to only recent publicity) but to describe the media and government response as anything other than a total whitewash would be extremely disingenuous. Some ITV documentary when the troubles were almost over, which would have limited viewership down South anyway, is stretching it to say we were all informed from the get go.

Not sure what the rest of your post is about. Maybe you think I'm someone else but I'd have little sympathy for the flak that comes government and media way. There is simply no appetite from media or government to get justice for those families. No pressure or awkward questions for politicians to deal with. In fact the hypocrisy was nauseating to see media or government trip over themselves in the rush when people like Paisley (most blood on hands from troubles) or Unionist politicians came to town, whether it be fawning over them on some Gay Byrne show or giving them a standing ovation in government buildings.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".
Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:45:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Lol, really dancing on a pinhead here.

I take it nobody in the 26 glorifies the Kilmichael ambush.

Except for the time they built an actual f**king monument...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Not only is there no appetite for the FS Government to get justice for the victims of the trouble.

They actively thwart it, they recently refused to release a report into the the murder of Aidan McAnespie that his family were very anxious for to be released in order to secure a conviction.

Then you have a government minister writing to the state broadcaster to question why they aired a documentary on collusion with loyalist paramilitaries in the murder of a wideranging number of nationalist civilians.

Sid is right from The Blueshirt genepool it seems.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".
Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoLuhA2XEAIHL5A?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:54:40 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 17, 2020, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:44:01 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 11:34:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 15, 2020, 07:38:24 PM

The total denial of the media and governments as to what was happening also fuelled the anger and sense of inequality. The dogs on the street knew British security forces were in collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries but to say this to most people from the Free State until only very recently they would laugh in your face. To say it to an English person they would have you committed. Media spin is a powerful thing.

Utter nonsense

People in the Republic long believed there was Loyalist/British collusion, especially as the single most devastating event of the entire Troubles took place in the Republic
Ah so the Dublin bombing was a hot topic now, not swept under the carpet. Sorry, my mistake.

Let me guess, the bastions of truth keeping people informed with accurate and free information in the relentless pursuit of justice. The BBC and RTE?
Your assertion is simply wrong

The Dublin government caved as regards pushing to find out the real truth of the bombings

But pretty much everybody down here believed there was British involvement from the get go

Open to correction but as far as I remember it was an ITV documentary in 1993 that contained the first real substantiation of this

The carping about BBC and RTE from Shinners is reminiscent of the Gembots

All yis are missing is an "RTE is the virus" avatar

BBC and RTE both had and have plenty of faults but yis sound like Celtic supporters going on about freemasons, yis sound nuts
Not in my experience. Even today if you stopped 10 random people in a southern Irish town and asked them what the B Specials were they wouldn't have a clue. You'd do better on the Dublin bombings (due to only recent publicity) but to describe the media and government response as anything other than a total whitewash would be extremely disingenuous. Some ITV documentary when the troubles were almost over, which would have limited viewership down South anyway, is stretching it to say we were all informed from the get go.

Not sure what the rest of your post is about. Maybe you think I'm someone else but I'd have little sympathy for the flak that comes government and media way. There is simply no appetite from media or government to get justice for those families. No pressure or awkward questions for politicians to deal with. In fact the hypocrisy was nauseating to see media or government trip over themselves in the rush when people like Paisley (most blood on hands from troubles) or Unionist politicians came to town, whether it be fawning over them on some Gay Byrne show or giving them a standing ovation in government buildings.

I simply stated that the assertion that very few people in the Republic believed there was Loyalist/British collusion is wrong

It is wrong

It was widely assumed from the get go that there was collusion, especially as regards the Dublin and Monaghan bombs, a lot of northern posters here have a very strange view of the views of the people in the south

But sure what the hell would they know about these views? They didn't live here!  ;)

I would wager that the average citizen of the Republic knew far more about the North than than the average Northern Catholic knew about the South, we got all your television, and we watched it

Christ, when I was a nipper I was under the assumption that there was Loyalist/British collusion, or in children's parlance, that they were "friends"

Ian Paisley was hated down here and so were Unionists and Unionism in general, Thatcher was certainly widely despised

I'd venture that very few young Northern Catholics these days could tell you very much about the B Specials

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Look-Up! on December 17, 2020, 02:00:17 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 17, 2020, 01:25:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:04:13 AM
Quote from: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:54:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 16, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 16, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 14, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Sid's point about it becoming less justified after they couldn't win is redundant - neither the old IRA, nor PIRA nor the dissidents ever had any chance of winning in any conventional understanding of the word. .
But the old IRA did win

They achieved an independent Irish state

The PIRA lost

They did not achieve what they wanted

Can you point me towards any evidence of the Old IRA outlining that their objective was to partition Ireland?
It wasn't their objective

Their objective was an independent Irish state

And that they got

No it wasn't. It was for an Irish Republic - in fact to be more precise they wanted recognition of the Irish republic declared in 1916, and run the Dail elected in 1917.

When the old IRA surrendered under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" what they got in return was a 26 county British Dominion in which parliamentarians had to swear allegiance to the British Crown.

"Home Rule for slow learners" if you paraphrase Seamus Mallon.  I don't say that to be disrespectful, at least half of the army of the Republic of first Dail broadly agreed with that conclusion.

The British Dominion then preserved this Dominion status by borrowing cannons from the British, and hiring ex-British servicemen to fight in the enduring civil war - committing unspeakable atrocities in the process (as did the other side).

The Republic was won (de jure) peacefully in 37. Declared (defacto) to in 49. Peacefully by diplomatic skill and opportunism.

The Old IRA had no chance of "winning" their war from the outset. That justification doesn't stack up Sid to support your argument.

A better example would have been Pearses surrender in 1916 where he explicitly done so to avoid more civilian casualties.
Well it was for an Irish Republic but they got an Irish Republic before long - the freedom to achieve freedom

And what was there from 22/23 was effectively an independent Irish state

It was unquestionably a victory

I don't think I would characterise it as a victory - more the "best defeat" that could be achieved.

Again - these men (aside from those who committed war crimes) were hero's. I mean them no disrespect - they deserve their exalted position in Irish history and long may that continue.
It wasn't total victory which was never achievable but of course it was a victory - a sort of a Rolling Stones "you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need"

Home Rule would have meant remaining part of the United Kingdom

The Treaty meant the Free State ceased to be part of the United Kingdom with only a few Is to be dotted and a Ts to be crossed to get a Republic

Compared to what was believed achievable even six or seven years earlier, it was a totally seismic change

Even the most cursory analysis of the economy of the island in 1921 indicates that ireland was completely duped into declaring a partitioned "free state". Having shafted Ireland to such an extent that our population literally halved from the famine, the British came to the ingenious conclusion that they could offload the uncooperative Irish in the South, whilst retaining the industrial might of the North and protecting it with a privileged sectarian majority. Much like Some republicans claiming the GFA as a victory , the free staters claimed victory in 1921-whereas in reality they had been sold a pup. Only involvement in the EC , dubious government in the 80s,90s,00s and external Investment due to favourable tax environment, turned the economy around. As a fledgling "country" it wasn't easy , and abuse scandals, poor health service , influence of the Catholic Church and neglect of northern nationalists are examples  of how ROI has failed. However Ni has completely failed or at least run it's  course. Sectarian majority is now gone, the economy remains heavily subsidised, and English nationalists in power in Westminster will try to offload Ni , and the remaining unionist population which is a millstone round their neck. Offloading NI would be a legacy of which Boris would be proud.
A United ireland is now a "penalty kick". Uk would jump at it, but ironically the biggest barrier is northern nationalists who aren't working hard enough to persuade unionists and "freestaters" that it makes sense.
Like your posts 6th Sam.

I'd claim GFA as a victory for ordinary working class people on both sides of the divide or at least a great rebuilding point for the future from the horrors that went on before. For the hardliners, religious, imperialist and political zealots on both sides, it was surrender in my eyes thank God and I don't really care how their spin masters tell it.
I just hope ordinary decent people can see through all the BS and move away from this dogma. Although as you say the road will be long and hard, I think with baby steps and a couple of generations, there's no reason why a fair and united society cannot be achieved. Under what flag it will fly is another matter. Personally a United Ireland for me would be great but that might not suit everyone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:11:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".
Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?
Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party"  ;D
But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:11:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".
Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?
Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

So now you've backtracked from saying he was "glorifying" the attacks, to he was in "agreement" with them (despite his tweet describing both ambushes as "a pity for everyone"). Progress of some description, I suppose.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:11:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".
Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?
Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

So now you've backtracked from saying he was "glorifying" the attacks, to he was in "agreement" with them (despite his tweet describing both ambushes as "a pity for everyone"). Progress of some description, I suppose.

Well of course he was glorifying them

And just a couple of weeks ago Mary Lou McDonald was glorifying Kilmichael

Which, as we all know, because Shinners constantly tell us  - was exactly equivalent to Warrenpoint!

Then Mary Lou, after glorifying Kilmichael, which was equivalent to Warrenpoint - so the Shinners tell us - backtracked and told Stanley that glorification of it was out!

Sinn Fein don't know whether they're coming or going on this

Maybe Mary Lou turned up at Kilmichael to pay tribute to Tom Barry in a holistic sense, including his British Army service, although at the same time that would have made him a legitimate target

Which perhaps makes the monument itself a legitimate target, glorifying as it does a former British soldier

Curiouser and curiouser









Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party"  ;D
But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6
But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 02:37:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM

But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

I think you'll find it's primarily FFG who are trying to politicise The Troubles at every single opportunity but they couldn't give a damn about the victims of British state terrorism on this island as they have shown again and again and again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party"  ;D
But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6
But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Now we're getting to the crux of it.

The people in the 26 can't be arsed with the hassle

Which is what northern nationalists have long believed

But we continue to be fed a bullshit line that the reasons were due to a sense of principle or morality

Thanks for finally admitting it

It took you a few pages, but you got there
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Look-Up! on December 17, 2020, 02:39:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:54:40 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 17, 2020, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 11:44:01 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 16, 2020, 11:34:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 15, 2020, 07:38:24 PM

The total denial of the media and governments as to what was happening also fuelled the anger and sense of inequality. The dogs on the street knew British security forces were in collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries but to say this to most people from the Free State until only very recently they would laugh in your face. To say it to an English person they would have you committed. Media spin is a powerful thing.

Utter nonsense

People in the Republic long believed there was Loyalist/British collusion, especially as the single most devastating event of the entire Troubles took place in the Republic
Ah so the Dublin bombing was a hot topic now, not swept under the carpet. Sorry, my mistake.

Let me guess, the bastions of truth keeping people informed with accurate and free information in the relentless pursuit of justice. The BBC and RTE?
Your assertion is simply wrong

The Dublin government caved as regards pushing to find out the real truth of the bombings

But pretty much everybody down here believed there was British involvement from the get go

Open to correction but as far as I remember it was an ITV documentary in 1993 that contained the first real substantiation of this

The carping about BBC and RTE from Shinners is reminiscent of the Gembots

All yis are missing is an "RTE is the virus" avatar

BBC and RTE both had and have plenty of faults but yis sound like Celtic supporters going on about freemasons, yis sound nuts
Not in my experience. Even today if you stopped 10 random people in a southern Irish town and asked them what the B Specials were they wouldn't have a clue. You'd do better on the Dublin bombings (due to only recent publicity) but to describe the media and government response as anything other than a total whitewash would be extremely disingenuous. Some ITV documentary when the troubles were almost over, which would have limited viewership down South anyway, is stretching it to say we were all informed from the get go.

Not sure what the rest of your post is about. Maybe you think I'm someone else but I'd have little sympathy for the flak that comes government and media way. There is simply no appetite from media or government to get justice for those families. No pressure or awkward questions for politicians to deal with. In fact the hypocrisy was nauseating to see media or government trip over themselves in the rush when people like Paisley (most blood on hands from troubles) or Unionist politicians came to town, whether it be fawning over them on some Gay Byrne show or giving them a standing ovation in government buildings.

I simply stated that the assertion that very few people in the Republic believed there was Loyalist/British collusion is wrong

It is wrong

It was widely assumed from the get go that there was collusion, especially as regards the Dublin and Monaghan bombs, a lot of northern posters here have a very strange view of the views of the people in the south

But sure what the hell would they know about these views? They didn't live here!  ;)

I would wager that the average citizen of the Republic knew far more about the North than than the average Northern Catholic knew about the South, we got all your television, and we watched it

Christ, when I was a nipper I was under the assumption that there was Loyalist/British collusion, or in children's parlance, that they were "friends"

Ian Paisley was hated down here and so were Unionists and Unionism in general, Thatcher was certainly widely despised

I'd venture that very few young Northern Catholics these days could tell you very much about the B Specials

Well that would have been fairly one sided to say the least.

If you say you know the plight of the Catholics in the north then fair enough, I'm not going to argue but to be fair it doesn't marry too well with the views that the driving force for the troubles in the 70's were about a United Ireland and Catholic's simply refused the many avenues of dialogue to power sharing open to them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 02:56:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:11:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".
Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?
Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

So now you've backtracked from saying he was "glorifying" the attacks, to he was in "agreement" with them (despite his tweet describing both ambushes as "a pity for everyone"). Progress of some description, I suppose.

Well of course he was glorifying them

And just a couple of weeks ago Mary Lou McDonald was glorifying Kilmichael

Which, as we all know, because Shinners constantly tell us  - was exactly equivalent to Warrenpoint!

Then Mary Lou, after glorifying Kilmichael, which was equivalent to Warrenpoint - so the Shinners tell us - backtracked and told Stanley that glorification of it was out!

Sinn Fein don't know whether they're coming or going on this

Maybe Mary Lou turned up at Kilmichael to pay tribute to Tom Barry in a holistic sense, including his British Army service, although at the same time that would have made him a legitimate target

Which perhaps makes the monument itself a legitimate target, glorifying as it does a former British soldier

Curiouser and curiouser

And yet, after all these rants, you still can't even quote the bit of his tweet where he "glorified" the ambushes (you know, the ones his tweet described as "a pity for everyone involved").
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 03:52:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 02:56:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:11:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 17, 2020, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water
Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".
Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?
Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

So now you've backtracked from saying he was "glorifying" the attacks, to he was in "agreement" with them (despite his tweet describing both ambushes as "a pity for everyone"). Progress of some description, I suppose.

Well of course he was glorifying them

And just a couple of weeks ago Mary Lou McDonald was glorifying Kilmichael

Which, as we all know, because Shinners constantly tell us  - was exactly equivalent to Warrenpoint!

Then Mary Lou, after glorifying Kilmichael, which was equivalent to Warrenpoint - so the Shinners tell us - backtracked and told Stanley that glorification of it was out!

Sinn Fein don't know whether they're coming or going on this

Maybe Mary Lou turned up at Kilmichael to pay tribute to Tom Barry in a holistic sense, including his British Army service, although at the same time that would have made him a legitimate target

Which perhaps makes the monument itself a legitimate target, glorifying as it does a former British soldier

Curiouser and curiouser

And yet, after all these rants, you still can't even quote the bit of his tweet where he "glorified" the ambushes (you know, the ones his tweet described as "a pity for everyone involved").

Even if he did...

There are commemorations and a bloody monument built

Which nobody has batted an eyelid at

Until some shinner compares it to something the Provos did and the hand wringing starts
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 04:03:49 PM
As I said from the outset of this discussion

The Free State had a bombastic military celebration with dignitaries and politicians giving public orations, army tanks running down the main Dublin street, officers in uniform standing to attention in an official state celebration of the Easter Rising only 4 years ago.

How many civilians died in The Rising again?

And Sid sees no wrong with that yet decries the Provos. He's a hypocrite and it's there for all to see.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 04:07:58 PM
@sid

"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"


https://twitter.com/ehallissey91/status/1339291540154363905?s=21 (https://twitter.com/ehallissey91/status/1339291540154363905?s=21)

:-X

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 17, 2020, 04:11:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 04:03:49 PM
As I said from the outset of this discussion

The Free State had a bombastic military celebration with dignitaries and politicians giving public orations, army tanks running down the main Dublin street, officers in uniform standing to attention in an official state celebration of the Easter Rising only 4 years ago.

How many civilians died in The Rising again?

And Sid sees no wrong with that yet decries the Provos. He's a hypocrite and it's there for all to see.

This is it essentially.

Old Ira - good and noble.
New Ira - morally long.

I'll not be taking lessons from a muppet like Charlie Flana...ooops, Sid.

Your typical FG blueshirt.

Great that people are catching on to the hypocrisy on the the political parties in the 26 counties.

To use a hurling parlance, they've been well cleaned out on this thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 09:04:21 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 09:10:41 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 09:04:21 AM


SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

They have a huge problem with this and the mental gymnastics they go through to legitimise violence, murder and sectarianism on one hand and denounce on the other is flabbergasting.

They will denounce the Provos vehemently but when reminded of their own bloody past they only want to airbrush history. Hound will no doubt run away now rather than confront his hypocrisies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:11:12 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party"  ;D
But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6
But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Now we're getting to the crux of it.

The people in the 26 can't be arsed with the hassle

Which is what northern nationalists have long believed

But we continue to be fed a bullshit line that the reasons were due to a sense of principle or morality

Thanks for finally admitting it

It took you a few pages, but you got there
No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

And I assume you hold the Old IRA in similar disdain then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

And I assume you hold the Old IRA in similar disdain then?

Just another Free State hypocrite I'd imagine who is outraged and northern nationalists standing up for themselves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.
They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:11:12 AM
No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution

Funnily enough, the only parties who continually drag up the troubles in the Dáil are FF/FG. Is it OK when they indulge in "Troubles politics" then?

That wouldn't be a...dare I say it....hypocritical view you hold, there Sid?  :o

Perish the thought!
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/76/a3/0a/76a30a4c9fd8eaf4a2886b7c1cdc2618.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:19:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

And I assume you hold the Old IRA in similar disdain then?

Just another Free State hypocrite I'd imagine who is outraged and northern nationalists standing up for themselves.

The hatred this Angelo guy has for ordinary Irish people is off the scale

People like him do more to prevent a united Ireland than the DUP could ever dream of
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:11:12 AM
No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution

Funnily enough, the only parties who continually drag up the troubles in the Dáil are FF/FG. Is it OK when they indulge in "Troubles politics" then?

That wouldn't be a...dare I say it....hypocritical view you hold, there Sid?  :o

Perish the thought!
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/76/a3/0a/76a30a4c9fd8eaf4a2886b7c1cdc2618.jpg)

I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:23:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.
They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 09:04:21 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

You refused to deal with my points earlier

Now you've returned to the US Republican party logic of "we invaded in Germany, so invading Iraq is fine"

The logic that dismisses critical thinking and dismisses any complexity
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:30:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:19:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

And I assume you hold the Old IRA in similar disdain then?

Just another Free State hypocrite I'd imagine who is outraged and northern nationalists standing up for themselves.

The hatred this Angelo guy has for ordinary Irish people is off the scale

People like him do more to prevent a united Ireland than the DUP could ever dream of

You're projecting again.

You are very far right - behind all this facade, you are a very bigoted and intolerant person.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:23:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.
They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.

That's like a career criminal and serial rapist objecting to being called a serial rapist on the basis of him having committed plenty of crimes which weren't rape
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.
Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.
Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:44:11 AM
What's surprising also is that the Shinners objected so strongly to a commemoration of the RIC on the basis of the Black and Tans terrorising Irish people

Well the PIRA terrorised Irish people too, and for a lot longer

So clearly terrorising people is not judged off limits for commemoration or indeed celebration by the Shinners

One could be forgiven thinking that it is in fact a pre-requisite for commemoration in their eyes

Can't wait for the Sinn Fein led commemoration of sectarian Loyalist murderers in a glorious new united Ireland - will this be happening, Shinners?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:45:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.
Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.
You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:23:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.
They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.

That's like a career criminal and serial rapist objecting to being called a serial rapist on the basis of him having committed plenty of crimes which weren't rape

No it's just calling you out on misrepresenting the reality of the conflict. If sectarian murder made up the majority of IRA attacks, then by all means it would be factually accurate to refer to their campaign as one of sectarian murder. Otherwise, you are being deliberately misleading and deliberately misrepresenting the facts of a conflict - a very telling decision, given that you purport to have such care and concern for victims some victims.

Would you ever, or have you ever referred to the Old IRA campaign as a campaign of civilian murder? Please do answer that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:47:26 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:23:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.
They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.

That's like a career criminal and serial rapist objecting to being called a serial rapist on the basis of him having committed plenty of crimes which weren't rape

No it's just calling you out on misrepresenting the reality of the conflict. If sectarian murder made up the majority of IRA attacks, then by all means it would be factually accurate to refer to their campaign as one of sectarian murder. Otherwise, you are being deliberately misleading and deliberately misrepresenting the facts of a conflict - a very telling decision, given that you purport to have such care and concern for victims some victims.

Would you refer to the Old IRA campaign as a campaign of civilian murder? Please do answer that.

Again, the logic of the serial rapist who objects to being called a rapist on the basis of committing other, non-rape crimes

There is one party who misrepresents the reality of the IRA's 28 year campaign of murder and that is Sinn Fein
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:47:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:45:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.
Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.
You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK  ;D

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:49:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:47:26 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:23:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.
They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.

That's like a career criminal and serial rapist objecting to being called a serial rapist on the basis of him having committed plenty of crimes which weren't rape

No it's just calling you out on misrepresenting the reality of the conflict. If sectarian murder made up the majority of IRA attacks, then by all means it would be factually accurate to refer to their campaign as one of sectarian murder. Otherwise, you are being deliberately misleading and deliberately misrepresenting the facts of a conflict - a very telling decision, given that you purport to have such care and concern for victims some victims.

Would you refer to the Old IRA campaign as a campaign of civilian murder? Please do answer that.

Again, the logic of the serial rapist who objects to being called a rapist on the basis of committing other, non-rape crimes

It's actually the logic of a guy condemning one rapist as scum of the earth while lauding the other as a hero of humanity

All we can deduce from your (lack of) moral standards is that you justify sectarian muders and violence.

It's transparent, a hypocrite for all to see.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:47:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:45:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.
Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.
You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK  ;D

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.
You've been justifying the murder of civilians as long as you've been as this board

I haven't justified the murder of a single civilian in the conflict

Sinn Fein are the party of rehabilitating civilian murder

And Nazi collaboration, incidentally
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:47:26 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:23:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.
They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.

That's like a career criminal and serial rapist objecting to being called a serial rapist on the basis of him having committed plenty of crimes which weren't rape

No it's just calling you out on misrepresenting the reality of the conflict. If sectarian murder made up the majority of IRA attacks, then by all means it would be factually accurate to refer to their campaign as one of sectarian murder. Otherwise, you are being deliberately misleading and deliberately misrepresenting the facts of a conflict - a very telling decision, given that you purport to have such care and concern for victims some victims.

Would you refer to the Old IRA campaign as a campaign of civilian murder? Please do answer that.

Again, the logic of the serial rapist who objects to being called a rapist on the basis of committing other, non-rape crimes

There is one party who misrepresents the reality of the IRA's 28 year campaign of murder and that is Sinn Fein

You see, you're just not getting it. It's not a matter of opinions. The cold hard numbers expose you as a liar. So the fact that you are deliberately ignoring the numbers in order to misrepresent the truth of what happened in the conflict, well...people can judge you for themselves on that behaviour.

And your refusal to answer a simple question marks you as a coward. I'll try again: Would you describe the Old IRA campaign as "a civilian murder campaign"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:47:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:45:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.
Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.
You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK  ;D

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.
You've been justifying the murder of civilians as long as you've been as this board

I haven't justified the murder of a single civilian in the conflict

Sinn Fein are the party of rehabilitating civilian murder

And Nazi collaboration, incidentally

And the Free State has been ruled by two establishment parties since its inception

1) A party who offered its condonlences to the Nazi Party on the death of Hitler
2) A party with its origins in far right fascism and Franco supporters

FF/FG held a bombastic military display to celebrate the deaths of hundreds of civilian murders this year, you think that was fine yet you are outraged about SF commemorating their war.

The problem for you is that you don't have a leg to stand on morally. You can put on as big a theatrical display of sanctimony as you please, but there's plenty of posters here to show your contradictions and faux outrage for the complete facade it is. When that happens, we see how nasty and malicious you can get. We saw your disgusting comments on Sean Browne, we see how you have become the defender of the far right blueshirts. Your real values are beginning to manifest because like most bigots, you don't like your hatred and intolerant views being challenged.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 11:15:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:11:12 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party"  ;D
But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6
But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Now we're getting to the crux of it.

The people in the 26 can't be arsed with the hassle

Which is what northern nationalists have long believed

But we continue to be fed a bullshit line that the reasons were due to a sense of principle or morality

Thanks for finally admitting it

It took you a few pages, but you got there
No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution

It is understandable that your hypocrisy being called out has angered you

The highly principled, moralising facade has disappeared, and has been replaced with insults and expletives

And how fitting that you use Bono to illustrate your point

The guy that referenced that renowned peacekeeping force, the British Army when saying "Nobody loves peace more than those who fought for it"  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 11:30:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 09:04:21 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

You refused to deal with my points earlier

Now you've returned to the US Republican party logic of "we invaded in Germany, so invading Iraq is fine"

The logic that dismisses critical thinking and dismisses any complexity

The fact that you keep repeating this nonsense doesn't make it true.

It just highlights, again and again, your desperation for something, anything to validate your duplicity
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:43:44 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 11:30:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 09:04:21 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

You refused to deal with my points earlier

Now you've returned to the US Republican party logic of "we invaded in Germany, so invading Iraq is fine"

The logic that dismisses critical thinking and dismisses any complexity

The fact that you keep repeating this nonsense doesn't make it true.

It just highlights, again and again, your desperation for something, anything to validate your duplicity
That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:45:17 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 11:15:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:11:12 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party"  ;D
But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6
But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Now we're getting to the crux of it.

The people in the 26 can't be arsed with the hassle

Which is what northern nationalists have long believed

But we continue to be fed a bullshit line that the reasons were due to a sense of principle or morality

Thanks for finally admitting it

It took you a few pages, but you got there
No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution

It is understandable that your hypocrisy being called out has angered you

The highly principled, moralising facade has disappeared, and has been replaced with insults and expletives

And how fitting that you use Bono to illustrate your point

The guy that referenced that renowned peacekeeping force, the British Army when saying "Nobody loves peace more than those who fought for it"  ::)
Bono said "f**k the revolution" on the night of November 8th, 1987

That was the night of Enniskillen

Did you agree with what he said that night or not?

It would seem you didn't

It would seem that comment really angered you

Which tells a story about your views, doesn't it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 11:47:50 AM
Calm down Sid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:47:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:45:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.
Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.
You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK  ;D

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.
You've been justifying the murder of civilians as long as you've been as this board

I haven't justified the murder of a single civilian in the conflict

Sinn Fein are the party of rehabilitating civilian murder

And Nazi collaboration, incidentally

And the Free State has been ruled by two establishment parties since its inception

1) A party who offered its condonlences to the Nazi Party on the death of Hitler
2) A party with its origins in far right fascism and Franco supporters

FF/FG held a bombastic military display to celebrate the deaths of hundreds of civilian murders this year, you think that was fine yet you are outraged about SF commemorating their war.

The problem for you is that you don't have a leg to stand on morally. You can put on as big a theatrical display of sanctimony as you please, but there's plenty of posters here to show your contradictions and faux outrage for the complete facade it is. When that happens, we see how nasty and malicious you can get. We saw your disgusting comments on Sean Browne, we see how you have become the defender of the far right blueshirts. Your real values are beginning to manifest because like most bigots, you don't like your hatred and intolerant views being challenged.
FG have their own vile history as regards as regards fascism

FF's extension of condolence to Germany on the death of Hitler was outrageous

No arguments there - I despise both parties and both of those things would be contributory reasons as to why I could never vote for them

However Sinn Fein's dalliance with Naziism is much more recent and therefore much more relevant

The current leader of Sinn Fein glorifies a Nazi collaborator

She has serious questions to answer about this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:55:39 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 11:47:50 AM
Calm down Sid.
Funny you say that because your arguing technique here and elsewhere on this board is reminiscent of a Harry Enfield sketch
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:00:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:43:44 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 11:30:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 09:04:21 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

You refused to deal with my points earlier

Now you've returned to the US Republican party logic of "we invaded in Germany, so invading Iraq is fine"

The logic that dismisses critical thinking and dismisses any complexity

The fact that you keep repeating this nonsense doesn't make it true.

It just highlights, again and again, your desperation for something, anything to validate your duplicity
That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

The logic is nonsense - like I say - the fact that you keep repeating it doesn't make it true

Shinnerbot - the standard vacuous go-to phrase for someone with no substantive argument to make

And followed by a flippant reference to the death of a child to score political points

How moral and principled of you
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 12:02:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:47:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:45:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.
Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.
You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK  ;D

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.
You've been justifying the murder of civilians as long as you've been as this board

I haven't justified the murder of a single civilian in the conflict

Sinn Fein are the party of rehabilitating civilian murder

And Nazi collaboration, incidentally

And the Free State has been ruled by two establishment parties since its inception

1) A party who offered its condonlences to the Nazi Party on the death of Hitler
2) A party with its origins in far right fascism and Franco supporters

FF/FG held a bombastic military display to celebrate the deaths of hundreds of civilian murders this year, you think that was fine yet you are outraged about SF commemorating their war.

The problem for you is that you don't have a leg to stand on morally. You can put on as big a theatrical display of sanctimony as you please, but there's plenty of posters here to show your contradictions and faux outrage for the complete facade it is. When that happens, we see how nasty and malicious you can get. We saw your disgusting comments on Sean Browne, we see how you have become the defender of the far right blueshirts. Your real values are beginning to manifest because like most bigots, you don't like your hatred and intolerant views being challenged.
FG have their own vile history as regards as regards fascism

FF's extension of condolence to Germany on the death of Hitler was outrageous

No arguments there - I despise both parties and both of those things would be contributory reasons as to why I could never vote for them

However Sinn Fein's dalliance with Naziism is much more recent and therefore much more relevant

The current leader of Sinn Fein glorifies a Nazi collaborator

She has serious questions to answer about this

Remind me who it was that said "England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity"? A common theme of war is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Nazism posed a lesser threat to Irish men and women than British colonialism is, two sides of an evil coin - one had wreaked havoc and slaughter on Irish soil for over 800 years.

Think Michael Martin has a portrait of Dev in his office so how is that for recent glorification?

Once again your contradictions are notable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:45:17 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 11:15:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:11:12 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 17, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?
Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance
It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party"  ;D
But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6
But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Now we're getting to the crux of it.

The people in the 26 can't be arsed with the hassle

Which is what northern nationalists have long believed

But we continue to be fed a bullshit line that the reasons were due to a sense of principle or morality

Thanks for finally admitting it

It took you a few pages, but you got there
No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution

It is understandable that your hypocrisy being called out has angered you

The highly principled, moralising facade has disappeared, and has been replaced with insults and expletives

And how fitting that you use Bono to illustrate your point

The guy that referenced that renowned peacekeeping force, the British Army when saying "Nobody loves peace more than those who fought for it"  ::)
Bono said "f**k the revolution" on the night of November 8th, 1987

That was the night of Enniskillen

Did you agree with what he said that night or not?

It would seem you didn't

It would seem that comment really angered you

Which tells a story about your views, doesn't it

Lol

You've really lost it here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

Bingo you say.  You are making a fool out of yourself.  And crassly using people's deaths as the vehicle in which to do so.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong

And show me somewhere else on this board you've used Jonathan Ball's name in a genuine way

Not just as a buzz word to take a swipe at someone

Your moral stance has been absolutely demolished here - and not by Angelo Snapchat and Franko... but by yourself.

Quote
That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on December 18, 2020, 12:12:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:43:44 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 11:30:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 09:04:21 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

You refused to deal with my points earlier

Now you've returned to the US Republican party logic of "we invaded in Germany, so invading Iraq is fine"

The logic that dismisses critical thinking and dismisses any complexity

The fact that you keep repeating this nonsense doesn't make it true.

It just highlights, again and again, your desperation for something, anything to validate your duplicity
That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball
ffs if your struggling just throw out the shinnerbot line ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:15:15 PM
Sid a couple of days ago:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

Sid today:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:43:44 AM
It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection... that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:17:13 PM
BTW Sid, I'll try a third time:

Since you regard the PIRA campaign as a "sectarian murder campaign" despite the evidence showing that to be a lie, can you therefor confirm that you regard the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:15:15 PM
Sid a couple of days ago:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

Sid today:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:43:44 AM
It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection... that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball
Duh, you've just proved my point!

To you Jonathan Ball is "bingo"

He must never be mentioned
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:17:13 PM
BTW Sid, I'll try a third time:

Since you regard the PIRA campaign as a "sectarian murder campaign" despite the evidence showing that to be a lie, can you therefor confirm that you regard the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?
But it was a sectarian murder campaign - unless you're saying that it couldn't have been because the PIRA also terrorised anybody in its own community who disagreed with it - which would also be accurate

And all you have in response is whataboutery

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

Bingo you say.  You are making a fool out of yourself.  And crassly using people's deaths as the vehicle in which to do so.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong

And show me somewhere else on this board you've used Jonathan Ball's name in a genuine way

Not just as a buzz word to take a swipe at someone

Your moral stance has been absolutely demolished here - and not by Angelo Snapchat and Franko... but by yourself.

Quote
That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball
You're the person that got outraged because I referenced Bono saying "f**k the revolution" after Enniskillen

And you say I'm making a fool of myself?

Now, I would have thought taking grievous offence at somebody condemning civilian slaughter was making a fool of themselves, but sure what would I know

Now you're proving my point by saying that Jonathan Ball and other victims are off limits for discussion

The real victims, to you, are the murderers

We must never reference their heinous crimes or their victims
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:38:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:15:15 PM
Sid a couple of days ago:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

Sid today:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:43:44 AM
It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection... that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball
Duh, you've just proved my point!

To you Jonathan Ball is "bingo"

He must never be mentioned

Oh FFS!! So it's wrong to use victims names for point scoring, unless you do it? Because when you do it, well that's actually just "proof" that you didn't do it?

Do you ever step back and consider how utterly ridiculous you make yourself look with this sort of nonsense?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:17:13 PM
BTW Sid, I'll try a third time:

Since you regard the PIRA campaign as a "sectarian murder campaign" despite the evidence showing that to be a lie, can you therefor confirm that you regard the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?
But it was a sectarian murder campaign - unless you're saying that it couldn't have been because the PIRA also terrorised anybody in its own community who disagreed with it - which would also be accurate

And all you have in response is whataboutery

Off we got for a 4th attempt at getting an answer:

Do you regard the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

Bingo you say.  You are making a fool out of yourself.  And crassly using people's deaths as the vehicle in which to do so.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong

And show me somewhere else on this board you've used Jonathan Ball's name in a genuine way

Not just as a buzz word to take a swipe at someone

Your moral stance has been absolutely demolished here - and not by Angelo Snapchat and Franko... but by yourself.

Quote
That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball
You're the person that got outraged because I referenced Bono saying "f**k the revolution" after Enniskillen

And you say I'm making a fool of myself?

Now, I would have thought taking grievous offence at somebody condemning civilian slaughter was making a fool of themselves, but sure what would I know

No outrage from me.

I calmly dismissed your expletive laden nonsense.

Again, just because you repeat something doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:42:54 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:38:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 12:15:15 PM
Sid a couple of days ago:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 15, 2020, 09:47:07 AM
You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

Sid today:
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 11:43:44 AM
It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection... that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball
Duh, you've just proved my point!

To you Jonathan Ball is "bingo"

He must never be mentioned

Oh FFS!! So it's wrong to use victims names for point scoring, unless you do it? Because when you do it, well that's actually just "proof" that you didn't do it?

Do you ever step back and consider how utterly ridiculous you make yourself look with this sort of nonsense?
Do you have any shame?

Seriously

The Trump style tactics on this thread have been fairly astounding

The lengths to which you and others here will go to defend civilian murder are remarkably extreme

But then what would expect from supporters of extremists

The Shinnerbots here get so angry when a few home truths get told to them

Armchair revolutionaries
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:45:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

Bingo you say.  You are making a fool out of yourself.  And crassly using people's deaths as the vehicle in which to do so.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong

And show me somewhere else on this board you've used Jonathan Ball's name in a genuine way

Not just as a buzz word to take a swipe at someone

Your moral stance has been absolutely demolished here - and not by Angelo Snapchat and Franko... but by yourself.

Quote
That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball
You're the person that got outraged because I referenced Bono saying "f**k the revolution" after Enniskillen

And you say I'm making a fool of myself?

Now, I would have thought taking grievous offence at somebody condemning civilian slaughter was making a fool of themselves, but sure what would I know

No outrage from me.

I calmly dismissed your expletive laden nonsense.

Again, just because you repeat something doesn't make it true.
But you've done no such thing

My debating here has been calm and rational while you have steadily lost the plot and resorted to personal insults

You've dug hole after hole for yourself and now you've dug yourself into a hole where criticism even of Enniskillen is off limits as far as you're concerned

Which I think is very telling as to what your real agenda has been all along

We're getting down to brass tacks here

It was always about defending civilian slaughter

As indeed is current day Sinn Fein
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 12:47:45 PM
Sid has now descended into "I know you are but what am I" defence line.

Every point he makes is contradicted by himself. He has torn asunder every post he has made with his contradictions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:49:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:45:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

Bingo you say.  You are making a fool out of yourself.  And crassly using people's deaths as the vehicle in which to do so.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong

And show me somewhere else on this board you've used Jonathan Ball's name in a genuine way

Not just as a buzz word to take a swipe at someone

Your moral stance has been absolutely demolished here - and not by Angelo Snapchat and Franko... but by yourself.

Quote
That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball
You're the person that got outraged because I referenced Bono saying "f**k the revolution" after Enniskillen

And you say I'm making a fool of myself?

Now, I would have thought taking grievous offence at somebody condemning civilian slaughter was making a fool of themselves, but sure what would I know

No outrage from me.

I calmly dismissed your expletive laden nonsense.

Again, just because you repeat something doesn't make it true.
But you've done no such thing

My debating here has been calm and rational while you have steadily lost the plot and resorted to personal insults

You've dug hole after hole for yourself and now you've dug yourself into a hole where criticism even of Enniskillen is off limits as far as you're concerned

Which I think is very telling as to what your real agenda has been all along

We're getting down to brass tacks here

It was always about defending civilian slaughter

As indeed is current day Sinn Fein

You do know other people can read this?

;D ;D ;D ;D


Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:11:12 AM
No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 12:47:45 PM
Sid has now descended into "I know you are but what am I" defence line.

Every point he makes is contradicted by himself. He has torn asunder every post he has made with his contradictions.
Every post you make evokes the Benny Hill Show music

Some of the most clueless arguing I ever seen from a poster

Armchair revolutionary, Couch Brigade
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:49:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:45:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

Bingo you say.  You are making a fool out of yourself.  And crassly using people's deaths as the vehicle in which to do so.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong

And show me somewhere else on this board you've used Jonathan Ball's name in a genuine way

Not just as a buzz word to take a swipe at someone

Your moral stance has been absolutely demolished here - and not by Angelo Snapchat and Franko... but by yourself.

Quote
That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball
You're the person that got outraged because I referenced Bono saying "f**k the revolution" after Enniskillen

And you say I'm making a fool of myself?

Now, I would have thought taking grievous offence at somebody condemning civilian slaughter was making a fool of themselves, but sure what would I know

No outrage from me.

I calmly dismissed your expletive laden nonsense.

Again, just because you repeat something doesn't make it true.
But you've done no such thing

My debating here has been calm and rational while you have steadily lost the plot and resorted to personal insults

You've dug hole after hole for yourself and now you've dug yourself into a hole where criticism even of Enniskillen is off limits as far as you're concerned

Which I think is very telling as to what your real agenda has been all along

We're getting down to brass tacks here

It was always about defending civilian slaughter

As indeed is current day Sinn Fein

You do know other people can read this?

;D ;D ;D ;D


Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 10:11:12 AM
No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution
You started off this debate by claiming that I was on drugs

You simply couldn't believe that anybody would have a different view to the fairytales you grew up believing

What you quote by me there is totally accurate

You see your problem is that you don't even understand the difference between a personal insult and forceful, accurate debating

The drugs reference therefore becomes very ironic, doesn't it

The references to people making fools of themselves also become very ironic

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:57:32 PM
Again, Franko, I invite you to tell me whether you agree or not with Bono's "f**k the revolution" comment after Enniskillen

And give reasons for your answer

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:59:21 PM
Ah yes, telling someone to shove something up their arse

Straight out of the Oxford Union textbook of "forceful, accurate debating"

Jesus wept  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 01:00:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 12:47:45 PM
Sid has now descended into "I know you are but what am I" defence line.

Every point he makes is contradicted by himself. He has torn asunder every post he has made with his contradictions.
Every post you make evokes the Benny Hill Show music

Some of the most clueless arguing I ever seen from a poster

Armchair revolutionary, Couch Brigade

Keep unraveling, Sid.

You gave up on trying to debate the issue long ago as you had yourself tied in knots Houdini wouldn't be able to release himself from.

I understand this is very embarrassing for you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:03:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 12:59:21 PM
Ah yes, telling someone to shove something up their arse

Straight out of the Oxford Union textbook of "forceful, accurate debating"

Jesus wept  ;D
You see your problem there is not the 28 year campaign of murder

It's the telling the supporters of that campaign like yerself to shove that campaign up their arse, a position any reasonable person would agree with

Shinners are now reaching for the fake "civility" tactics of Trump and the US Republican party when they've run out of any other ideas to defend 28 years of slaughter

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:04:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 01:00:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 12:47:45 PM
Sid has now descended into "I know you are but what am I" defence line.

Every point he makes is contradicted by himself. He has torn asunder every post he has made with his contradictions.
Every post you make evokes the Benny Hill Show music

Some of the most clueless arguing I ever seen from a poster

Armchair revolutionary, Couch Brigade

Keep unraveling, Sid.

You gave up on trying to debate the issue long ago as you had yourself tied in knots Houdini wouldn't be able to release himself from.

I understand this is very embarrassing for you.

Nobody takes a pathetic troll like yourself seriously
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:11:23 PM
A Shinner when faced with a question they can't answer (which is pretty much every question):

"Hey everybody - look over there"

The Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 01:43:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 12:57:32 PM
Again, Franko, I invite you to tell me whether you agree or not with Bono's "f**k the revolution" comment after Enniskillen

And give reasons for your answer

At the time I didn't, no.  Primarily because I was 2 years old.

Which is why I had a good laugh at the little straw man story you concocted around my feelings on the issue on that date.

On reflection, I still don't.

But I can understand why he said it and the depth of feeling at that time

And this cuts to the heart of the whole discussion here.

What happened that day was 100%, unequivocally, no questions asked, wrong.  Unlike you, I will not try to defend it or justify it.  Not at all.  Not because of the length of the conflict, not because of the debateable "chances of winning", not because of the questionable popular support of the people.

But to dismiss the entire 'revolution' based on that is too simplistic and also wrong IMO.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

It is 100% relevant.

As the record shows, this debate started because some shinner compared the PIRA bombing near Warrenpoint to the Old IRA ambush at Kilmichael.

You were outraged.

So your opinions on the Old IRA when involving yourself in this discussion are totally 100% relevant.

Why are you desperately flailing around trying to invent reasons not to answer a simple question?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 02:00:11 PM
Blue Sid spinning like a windmill here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

Again, it's nothing to do with whataboutery. Im providing you with an opportunity to demonstrate a consistency of logic.

Anyway, given that you have already (repeatedly) engaged within this discussion about both the Easter Rising and the Tan War, then your refusal to answer this question about the Old IRA on grounds of 'whataboutery' appears all the more nonsensical and your real reason for not answering it all the more transparent.

So I'm quite happy to keep asking. For the seventh time now:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 18, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
I have to say, seeing Sid get made an eejit out of over and over again is filling me with festive cheer  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 12:03:56 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

Again, it's nothing to do with whataboutery. Im providing you with an opportunity to demonstrate a consistency of logic.

Anyway, given that you have already (repeatedly) engaged within this discussion about both the Easter Rising and the Tan War, then your refusal to answer this question about the Old IRA on grounds of 'whataboutery' appears all the more nonsensical and your real reason for not answering it all the more transparent.

So I'm quite happy to keep asking. For the seventh time now:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?
You can ask 100 times if you like

You've pretty much written the same inane post full of whataboutery and disso logic 100 times as it is, so I guess that would be 101
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

It is 100% relevant.

As the record shows, this debate started because some shinner compared the PIRA bombing near Warrenpoint to the Old IRA ambush at Kilmichael.

You were outraged.

So your opinions on the Old IRA when involving yourself in this discussion are totally 100% relevant.

Why are you desperately flailing around trying to invent reasons not to answer a simple question?

Woah, look you said "desperately flailing" as if you think it's a point

It isn't

Yet more whataboutery
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 19, 2020, 07:22:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 12:03:56 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

Again, it's nothing to do with whataboutery. Im providing you with an opportunity to demonstrate a consistency of logic.

Anyway, given that you have already (repeatedly) engaged within this discussion about both the Easter Rising and the Tan War, then your refusal to answer this question about the Old IRA on grounds of 'whataboutery' appears all the more nonsensical and your real reason for not answering it all the more transparent.

So I'm quite happy to keep asking. For the seventh time now:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?
You can ask 100 times if you like

You've pretty much written the same inane post full of whataboutery and disso logic 100 times as it is, so I guess that would be 101
So again, just to clarify, you're happy to engage in discussion about the Old IRA when it suits on this thread, and its only "whataboutery" when it doesn't suit/you're asked a question you'd prefer not answer?

Why don't you just stop making a show of yourself with your refusal to answer. In a discussion about physical force Irish republicanism - which began with a discussion around parallels that had been drawn between a PIRA ambush and an Old IRA ambush, you're suddenly deciding that talking about the Old IRA is "whataboutery" (despite having done so happily right up until now) but are happy to engage in lengthy side-arguments about Trump and US politics. It doesn't quite stack up, does it?

I'll ask again for just the 8th time:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 08:47:07 AM
This thread has turned into the American politics thread.

Really disgusting to see how 'we' can get so thick with each other.

Reading through this it's clear that views on a UI are not so clear!

What happened in the north can't be undone, it was the result of so many factors that once it started it was going to be very difficult to pull back.

It's impossible of any southerner to comprehend or realise the actual extent of the conditions people went through.

The starting point for this lies firmly with the negotiations and acceptance of partition. Being cast off will never be forgotten by many.

The atrocities during the troubles can never be justified, and anyone that stands over them is wrong, same as the atrocities of the Irish civil war.

That being said, the conditions of the Irish nationalist/republican living in the north was grim, civil rights was the way to go, but unfortunately events like Bloody Sunday, the  Ballymurphy massacre steered us down a ugly road.

Enniskillen Omagh kingsmill and others should not be forgotten, all of these could have been avoided had Ireland stayed united from the start.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 10:18:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 08:47:07 AM
This thread has turned into the American politics thread.

Really disgusting to see how 'we' can get so thick with each other.

Reading through this it's clear that views on a UI are not so clear!

What happened in the north can't be undone, it was the result of so many factors that once it started it was going to be very difficult to pull back.

It's impossible of any southerner to comprehend or realise the actual extent of the conditions people went through.

The starting point for this lies firmly with the negotiations and acceptance of partition. Being cast off will never be forgotten by many.

The atrocities during the troubles can never be justified, and anyone that stands over them is wrong, same as the atrocities of the Irish civil war.

That being said, the conditions of the Irish nationalist/republican living in the north was grim, civil rights was the way to go, but unfortunately events like Bloody Sunday, the  Ballymurphy massacre steered us down a ugly road.

Enniskillen Omagh kingsmill and others should not be forgotten, all of these could have been avoided had Ireland stayed united from the start.
Unfortunately Irish politics is destined to go the road of American politics because Sinn Fein have decided so

They use the methods of Trump - culture war ideology is mainly used on the far right but it is not limited to the far right

Sinn Fein understand that if people can be persuaded to become culture warriors, they are likely to stick with a party which is waging a culture war, because waging a culture war requires full buy in to the idea of tribe - and then you get paranoia, eternal victimhood and mindlessness

So that's the road they've gone down and the behaviour of their supporters on this thread is an example of that mindset

Labour and the Green Party suffered at elections after they were in Government because, whatever you think of them, they were essentially good faith operators who believe in an agreed, objective set of facts - they said, "here's our record, we made mistakes, we did not get all we want, but we tried to bring a progressive attitude and policies to government as best we could"

Sinn Fein don't do that, they attack, attack, attack, are willing to lie through their teeth about pretty much anything, and create a siege mentality

Their ideology is to create a Putinist landscape in which everything is true yet nothing is true and confusion and cynicism reigns

Sinn Fein's central goal, along with a united Ireland, is to rehabilitate the PIRA

You can't be in the party unless you accept the rehabilitation of the PIRA

But the PIRA was hated by most people down here, now their rehabilitation for political means, from a safe distance, is well underway - like Putin is rehabilitating Stalin

Whatever situation occurred in the six counties was always likely to be a shitshow and a united Ireland would not have changed that

Enniskillen, Warrington and Omagh might and would probably not have happened were it not for British and Unionist intransigence, that is true - but it's likely that neither would the murder of Sean Browne have happened were it not for the resumed PIRA campaign of 1996 starting with Canary Wharf

If you want to point to the "failure" of partition, point to the failure of the Boundary Commission

But a united Ireland in 1922 was completely unachievable and indeed had the Boundary Commission done its job properly, the hope of a united Ireland would be a total pipe dream, because the Unionist majority would never have been lost - and Catholics who looked towards the south in places like Belfast and north Antrim would still have been "abandoned", as you put it

In the hypothetical event of a united Ireland in 1922, there would have been slaughter - and indeed the threat of slaughter still exists as we move nearer to one - which is why it cannot be forced prematurely, it should only happen when it is ready to happen

But there is no inherent state of nature in which the island of Ireland is one political unit - it's a political matter

In fact the dispersed nature of the CNR community vis a vis the PUL community in the North is reminiscent of Bosnia - where the Serbs believed they had an inherent right to be ruled by a Greater Serbia while the Muslims believed they had a right to self rule

Both wanted the same land and the inhabitants of that land were an inconvenience to the other

In that way, the territorial dispute over NI is no different to any other territorial dispute in Europe - but for some reason people in the North think it is



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2020, 11:20:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 08:47:07 AM

Enniskillen Omagh kingsmill and others should not be forgotten, all of these could have been avoided had Ireland stayed united from the start.

The only way Ireland was staying United back "at the start"was
1 - as a nice assimilated British part of the UK with no Home Rule....same as Scotland and Wales but with all those "nasty Nationalists" getting the same treatment as in 1798.
2 - as an Independent All Ireland Republic with the North Eastern Unionists being subdued like  the Palestinians.
The Brits had already decided on 2 Home Rule areas - "Northern Ireland" and "Southern Ireland".
The War and Treaty resulted in the Southern Ireland being still born and becoming a Dominion called the Irish Free State.

But what happened happened, we are where we are so leave history to the historians and concentrate on the future.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 12:18:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 19, 2020, 11:20:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 08:47:07 AM

Enniskillen Omagh kingsmill and others should not be forgotten, all of these could have been avoided had Ireland stayed united from the start.

The only way Ireland was staying United back "at the start"was
1 - as a nice assimilated British part of the UK with no Home Rule....same as Scotland and Wales but with all those "nasty Nationalists" getting the same treatment as in 1798.
2 - as an Independent All Ireland Republic with the North Eastern Unionists being subdued like  the Palestinians.
The Brits had already decided on 2 Home Rule areas - "Northern Ireland" and "Southern Ireland".
The War and Treaty resulted in the Southern Ireland being still born and becoming a Dominion called the Irish Free State.

But what happened happened, we are where we are so leave history to the historians and concentrate on the future.

History being dragged up here left right and centre. To suit each other's argument!

People calling themselves Irishmen embarrassing themselves. Political parties will do what they need to do to get into power. There's not been a party in power that's covered themselves in glory, ever.

Mudslingers are aplenty. The Greens/labours/liberal parties won't get the votes because traditionally and unfortunately they don't enough people to believe in them to give them a chance. Tribal politics is the same here as it's in any country.

As for looking back at 1922, yes there may have be a slaughter but it would have been done and dusted.

The northerners were left behind, that's fact, no actual plan to rectify that came about, the South got on with their lives and blotted the north out of their plans.

Northern catholic's were discriminated against from day one. Nearly 50 years of it before it exploded on the streets of Belfast and Derry. I'm not justifying it, but you can only poke a bear so much
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on December 19, 2020, 02:24:51 PM
Northern Catholics were treated deplorably. And abandoned.
But the South was an awful place for many too. Children sent into Industrial homes, unmarried mothers sent away to laundries. Children sold abroad. Women in abusive marriages denied divorce until the 1990s. Even Sinn Fein did not support divorce in 1986 and Gerry Adams told Catholics to vote with their conscience. There was all kinds of sex abuse going on with clergy and child abuse within families. Books were banned. Writers like McGahern lost his job for writing about this in The Dark. Women were second class citizens. Had to give up jobs for men.
Ireland was not ready for a United Ireland in the 20th century. It would have broken up.
The best chance of a United Ireland is the economic and social progress we have made, and in creating the type of country the next generations want to live in. Many of our nationalist patriots were religious nuts and their visions should be consigned to history. We recently came number 2 on the World Quality of Life Index. This will piss off all the radicals who like to portray Ireland as hell on earth. It's not and time is coming when it now needs to be one economic, sovereign nation. And it will be that progress in quality of life that will bring it about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2020, 02:54:02 PM
Point of order wearers-
McGahern was sacked because he married a woman in a foreign Registry Office instead of having  a  Catholic Marriage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on December 19, 2020, 04:13:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 19, 2020, 02:54:02 PM
Point of order wearers-
McGahern was sacked because he married a woman in a foreign Registry Office instead of having  a  Catholic Marriage.

Thanks for correction there, Rossfan. Either way, the state was not fit for purpose with people like Archbishop McQuaid ruling the roost.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Let's drop it and get back to what this thread is about. Sinn Féin. Another bullying Facebook group uncovered i see.
This is the true face of SF behind the scenes. I know that from close hand experience
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on December 20, 2020, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Let's drop it and get back to what this thread is about. Sinn Féin. Another bullying Facebook group uncovered i see.
This is the true face of SF behind the scenes. I know that from close hand experience

SF are fine when the media only focus on Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty. Journalists have copped on now that there are some strange individuals in the party with outlandish views and they are now focusing on them.

Twitter is a cesspool of hate on alot of topics, but if you criticize any SF member or action on it you'll be in for a flood of abuse from SF users. They have a far bigger presence there than any other party

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 10:39:07 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Let's drop it and get back to what this thread is about. Sinn Féin. Another bullying Facebook group uncovered i see.
This is the true face of SF behind the scenes. I know that from close hand experience


In the news today:

"Worrying"
"Chilling"
"Not a normal political party"
etc

Fine Gael councillor called to Limerick pensioner's home to confront him over Facebook post
Stock picture
Stock picture

Hugh O'Connell

December 20 2020 02:30 AM

A Fine Gael councillor called to a Limerick pensioner's home at night to confront him over a social media post and then later threatened to go to gardaí about it.

Councillor Liam Galvin told constituent Eamon Roche (70) of Abbeyfeale, west Limerick, he would go to gardaí and his solicitor over the man's post on Facebook.

It had criticised the councillor's and Fine Gael minister Patrick O'Donovan's response after the flood defences and backyard terrace of Mr Roche's home were washed away by erosion from the River Feale.

Mr Galvin denied making such threats to Mr Roche but told the Sunday Independent: "When I called to that house and when I sent that text message, all the social media posts stopped."

Mr Roche criticised Mr Galvin and Mr O'Donovan on Facebook on January 15 - the day after the general election was called - and said he would not be voting Fine Gael.

He wrote that had Mr O'Donovan acted when representations about river erosion were made via Mr Galvin in 2015, the incident two years later would not have occurred.

Mr Roche, who is a former Fine Gael member, wrote that Mr O'Donovan advised him to keep away from the media and that the minister was unhappy with him posting comments on social media.

Protracted efforts to get the damage repaired, involving Limerick City and County Council (LCCC) and the Office of Public Works, resulted in Mr Roche and his wife Marie falling out with the two Fine Gael politicians.

On January 16 last, the night after Mr Roche posted on Facebook, Mrs Roche (66) said Mr Galvin called unannounced to their home at around 8.30pm. Not wishing to speak to him, she began to close the door when he asked to speak with Mr Roche. "I got a fright. He just said: 'Can I speak to Eamon?' I closed the door in his face," Mrs Roche said.

Mr Roche said his wife was left "distressed" by the councillor calling to the house at that hour. He said Mr Galvin tried to call him the following day, but he did not answer.

In a subsequent text, Mr Galvin wrote: "Eamon, I wanted to talk to you about the posts that you are putting up on Facebook.

"Mention my name again and I'll be going further with this.

"I will be arranging a meeting with my solicitor and the gardaí re this defamation if it continues. I never again want anything to do with you or your wife."

Mr Galvin confirmed he sent the text, but denied it was a threat and said he had called to the house canvassing. Mr Roche disputes this, saying: "He wouldn't be canvassing at half-eight at night on his own."

When it was put to him that Mrs Roche had "got a fright" when he called to the house, Mr Galvin responded: "Oh, sorry if she got a fright. Would she get a fright when everyone is calling to the door? Would she get a fright if the postman called to the door?"

Mr Galvin, who has been a councillor since 2004, told the Sunday Independent he "went out of my way to help that family".

He said he had not issued a solicitor's letter to Mr Roche in relation to the Facebook post, which is still online. Asked if he had contacted gardaí, Mr Galvin said: "Listen, go and talk to them to discuss it there if you want. As I say, I don't discuss constituents, I'll leave it at that."

Mr Roche complained to Fine Gael's leader on LCCC, Councillor John Sheahan, on January 21. He said in an email that Mr Galvin "pays no attention to our wishes and caused us great hurt and distress in the past".

Mr Sheahan later replied to say he lacked "any powers in relation to individual behaviour of any our councillors" but said he had forwarded the complaint to Mr Galvin.

On Friday, Mr Sheahan said he believed it was a personal matter between the two men. "I could have referred it to HQ but I thought it was an issue they could resolve," he said.

Mr Roche ended up paying to repair the flood damage.

Limerick mayor Michael Collins, a Fianna Fáil councillor who worked with the Roche family on the issue, described them as "decent people... badly let down" by "a lot of agencies and people who could have done better".

Mr O'Donovan did not respond to queries.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 20, 2020, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Let's drop it and get back to what this thread is about. Sinn Féin. Another bullying Facebook group uncovered i see.
This is the true face of SF behind the scenes. I know that from close hand experience

SF are fine when the media only focus on Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty. Journalists have copped on now that there are some strange individuals in the party with outlandish views and they are now focusing on them.

Twitter is a cesspool of hate on alot of topics, but if you criticize any SF member or action on it you'll be in for a flood of abuse from SF users. They have a far bigger presence there than any other party

100 percent. Twitter is rotten with SF bullies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 10:49:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 20, 2020, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Let's drop it and get back to what this thread is about. Sinn Féin. Another bullying Facebook group uncovered i see.
This is the true face of SF behind the scenes. I know that from close hand experience

SF are fine when the media only focus on Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty. Journalists have copped on now that there are some strange individuals in the party with outlandish views and they are now focusing on them.

Twitter is a cesspool of hate on alot of topics, but if you criticize any SF member or action on it you'll be in for a flood of abuse from SF users. They have a far bigger presence there than any other party

100 percent. Twitter is rotten with SF bullies.

There's two sides to the coin.

FG have a load of Concannonbots, paid for by the taxpayers money which relentlessly attack SF. Meanwhile FF have appointed the former editor of The Sun, a renowned racists as their government spin man.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/taoiseach-brings-back-communications-guru-for-covid-19-public-campaign-39054064.html


If you could look at things objectively for once, it would be great.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 20, 2020, 11:30:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile
You've a wealth of 'little stories' like these don't you. Lol

Unfortunately given 60% of your posts are slagging off SF you lose credibility and tend to look a bit like a bot yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:43:29 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 20, 2020, 11:30:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile
You've a wealth of 'little stories' like these don't you. Lol

Unfortunately given 60% of your posts are slagging off SF you lose credibility and tend to look a bit like a bot yourself.

Since I did work with SF I'm in a good position.. it's could you are keeping count of my posts,even better that you demonstrate the shinner tendency to discount any challenge by using words like "no credibility" without giving data of where the credibility does not exist .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 20, 2020, 12:07:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 10:39:07 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Let's drop it and get back to what this thread is about. Sinn Féin. Another bullying Facebook group uncovered i see.
This is the true face of SF behind the scenes. I know that from close hand experience


In the news today:

"Worrying"
"Chilling"
"Not a normal political party"
etc

Fine Gael councillor called to Limerick pensioner's home to confront him over Facebook post
Stock picture
Stock picture

Hugh O'Connell

December 20 2020 02:30 AM

A Fine Gael councillor called to a Limerick pensioner's home at night to confront him over a social media post and then later threatened to go to gardaí about it.

Councillor Liam Galvin told constituent Eamon Roche (70) of Abbeyfeale, west Limerick, he would go to gardaí and his solicitor over the man's post on Facebook.

It had criticised the councillor's and Fine Gael minister Patrick O'Donovan's response after the flood defences and backyard terrace of Mr Roche's home were washed away by erosion from the River Feale.

Mr Galvin denied making such threats to Mr Roche but told the Sunday Independent: "When I called to that house and when I sent that text message, all the social media posts stopped."

Mr Roche criticised Mr Galvin and Mr O'Donovan on Facebook on January 15 - the day after the general election was called - and said he would not be voting Fine Gael.

He wrote that had Mr O'Donovan acted when representations about river erosion were made via Mr Galvin in 2015, the incident two years later would not have occurred.

Mr Roche, who is a former Fine Gael member, wrote that Mr O'Donovan advised him to keep away from the media and that the minister was unhappy with him posting comments on social media.

Protracted efforts to get the damage repaired, involving Limerick City and County Council (LCCC) and the Office of Public Works, resulted in Mr Roche and his wife Marie falling out with the two Fine Gael politicians.

On January 16 last, the night after Mr Roche posted on Facebook, Mrs Roche (66) said Mr Galvin called unannounced to their home at around 8.30pm. Not wishing to speak to him, she began to close the door when he asked to speak with Mr Roche. "I got a fright. He just said: 'Can I speak to Eamon?' I closed the door in his face," Mrs Roche said.

Mr Roche said his wife was left "distressed" by the councillor calling to the house at that hour. He said Mr Galvin tried to call him the following day, but he did not answer.

In a subsequent text, Mr Galvin wrote: "Eamon, I wanted to talk to you about the posts that you are putting up on Facebook.

"Mention my name again and I'll be going further with this.

"I will be arranging a meeting with my solicitor and the gardaí re this defamation if it continues. I never again want anything to do with you or your wife."

Mr Galvin confirmed he sent the text, but denied it was a threat and said he had called to the house canvassing. Mr Roche disputes this, saying: "He wouldn't be canvassing at half-eight at night on his own."

When it was put to him that Mrs Roche had "got a fright" when he called to the house, Mr Galvin responded: "Oh, sorry if she got a fright. Would she get a fright when everyone is calling to the door? Would she get a fright if the postman called to the door?"

Mr Galvin, who has been a councillor since 2004, told the Sunday Independent he "went out of my way to help that family".

He said he had not issued a solicitor's letter to Mr Roche in relation to the Facebook post, which is still online. Asked if he had contacted gardaí, Mr Galvin said: "Listen, go and talk to them to discuss it there if you want. As I say, I don't discuss constituents, I'll leave it at that."

Mr Roche complained to Fine Gael's leader on LCCC, Councillor John Sheahan, on January 21. He said in an email that Mr Galvin "pays no attention to our wishes and caused us great hurt and distress in the past".

Mr Sheahan later replied to say he lacked "any powers in relation to individual behaviour of any our councillors" but said he had forwarded the complaint to Mr Galvin.

On Friday, Mr Sheahan said he believed it was a personal matter between the two men. "I could have referred it to HQ but I thought it was an issue they could resolve," he said.

Mr Roche ended up paying to repair the flood damage.

Limerick mayor Michael Collins, a Fianna Fáil councillor who worked with the Roche family on the issue, described them as "decent people... badly let down" by "a lot of agencies and people who could have done better".

Mr O'Donovan did not respond to queries.

FG have an ex- lad from The Sun newspaper as their spin guy.

Can you imagine that?...The f*#cking Sun as top PR guys for an Irish political party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 20, 2020, 12:10:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 10:49:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 20, 2020, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Let's drop it and get back to what this thread is about. Sinn Féin. Another bullying Facebook group uncovered i see.
This is the true face of SF behind the scenes. I know that from close hand experience

SF are fine when the media only focus on Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty. Journalists have copped on now that there are some strange individuals in the party with outlandish views and they are now focusing on them.

Twitter is a cesspool of hate on alot of topics, but if you criticize any SF member or action on it you'll be in for a flood of abuse from SF users. They have a far bigger presence there than any other party

100 percent. Twitter is rotten with SF bullies.

There's two sides to the coin.

FG have a load of Concannonbots, paid for by the taxpayers money which relentlessly attack SF. Meanwhile FF have appointed the former editor of The Sun, a renowned racists as their government spin man.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/taoiseach-brings-back-communications-guru-for-covid-19-public-campaign-39054064.html


If you could look at things objectively for once, it would be great.

Were FG not actively recruiting people to work on their 'online activity'?

Was there not an ad somewhere recently and it gave their job description?

All political parties have fall outs, where it's down to policies or mainly, personalities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 20, 2020, 12:10:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 10:49:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 20, 2020, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Let's drop it and get back to what this thread is about. Sinn Féin. Another bullying Facebook group uncovered i see.
This is the true face of SF behind the scenes. I know that from close hand experience

SF are fine when the media only focus on Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty. Journalists have copped on now that there are some strange individuals in the party with outlandish views and they are now focusing on them.

Twitter is a cesspool of hate on alot of topics, but if you criticize any SF member or action on it you'll be in for a flood of abuse from SF users. They have a far bigger presence there than any other party

100 percent. Twitter is rotten with SF bullies.

There's two sides to the coin.

FG have a load of Concannonbots, paid for by the taxpayers money which relentlessly attack SF. Meanwhile FF have appointed the former editor of The Sun, a renowned racists as their government spin man.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/taoiseach-brings-back-communications-guru-for-covid-19-public-campaign-39054064.html


If you could look at things objectively for once, it would be great.

Were FG not actively recruiting people to work on their 'online activity'?

Was there not an ad somewhere recently and it gave their job description?

All political parties have fall outs, where it's down to policies or mainly, personalities.

Yes Concannonbots.

Varadkar was paying 2m a year of taxpayers money on his spin department but move along now, nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

I'm pretty sure he's not on GAA board but I'm also pretty sure if i name him he will soon hear. It's true , be pretty odd for me to sit on a sunday morning making up little dittos about Maria Cahill,I know that's what you would like to think is going on..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

I'm pretty sure he's not on GAA board but I'm also pretty sure if i name him he will soon hear. It's true , be pretty odd for me to sit on a sunday morning making up little dittos about Maria Cahill,I know that's what you would like to think is going on..

It might odd but it would also be right in line with your agenda too.

If you think anonymous and unsubstantiated anecdotes help, they certainly do not. You have a clear agenda at play to bash SF at every opportunity so you're not really the most honest broker.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

I'm pretty sure he's not on GAA board but I'm also pretty sure if i name him he will soon hear. It's true , be pretty odd for me to sit on a sunday morning making up little dittos about Maria Cahill,I know that's what you would like to think is going on..

It might odd but it would also be right in line with your agenda too.

If you think anonymous and unsubstantiated anecdotes help, they certainly do not. You have a clear agenda at play to bash SF at every opportunity so you're not really the most honest broker.

Just because it doesn't please you doesn't mean not true you know.

Elisha mc csllion was true, Shinners not giving nurses ríse was true, Shinners using and abusing conradh na gaeilge was true, Shinners sharing and abusing community jobs and money amongst them was true, covering up rape and sex abuse was true, leaving stolen postal votes in Chinese in Derry was true, not working for 3 years was true, the stories from volunteers dance was true, bullying people out of party was true, I could go on
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2020, 01:10:41 PM
Meanwhile

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1219/1185510-sunday-times-poll/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 01:20:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

I'm pretty sure he's not on GAA board but I'm also pretty sure if i name him he will soon hear. It's true , be pretty odd for me to sit on a sunday morning making up little dittos about Maria Cahill,I know that's what you would like to think is going on..

It might odd but it would also be right in line with your agenda too.

If you think anonymous and unsubstantiated anecdotes help, they certainly do not. You have a clear agenda at play to bash SF at every opportunity so you're not really the most honest broker.

Just because it doesn't please you doesn't mean not true you know.

Elisha mc csllion was true, Shinners not giving nurses ríse was true, Shinners using and abusing conradh na gaeilge was true, Shinners sharing and abusing community jobs and money amongst them was true, covering up rape and sex abuse was true, leaving stolen postal votes in Chinese in Derry was true, not working for 3 years was true, the stories from volunteers dance was true, bullying people out of party was true, I could go on

I'm just pointing out that you have an agenda.

And putting forward sustained unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdotes only serve to undermine what it is you might be trying to achieve.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 01:20:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

I'm pretty sure he's not on GAA board but I'm also pretty sure if i name him he will soon hear. It's true , be pretty odd for me to sit on a sunday morning making up little dittos about Maria Cahill,I know that's what you would like to think is going on..

It might odd but it would also be right in line with your agenda too.

If you think anonymous and unsubstantiated anecdotes help, they certainly do not. You have a clear agenda at play to bash SF at every opportunity so you're not really the most honest broker.

Just because it doesn't please you doesn't mean not true you know.

Elisha mc csllion was true, Shinners not giving nurses ríse was true, Shinners using and abusing conradh na gaeilge was true, Shinners sharing and abusing community jobs and money amongst them was true, covering up rape and sex abuse was true, leaving stolen postal votes in Chinese in Derry was true, not working for 3 years was true, the stories from volunteers dance was true, bullying people out of party was true, I could go on

I'm just pointing out that you have an agenda.

And putting forward sustained unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdotes only serve to undermine what it is you might be trying to achieve.

What's your agenda and none of it is unsubstantiated. Suck it up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 01:38:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 01:20:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

I'm pretty sure he's not on GAA board but I'm also pretty sure if i name him he will soon hear. It's true , be pretty odd for me to sit on a sunday morning making up little dittos about Maria Cahill,I know that's what you would like to think is going on..

It might odd but it would also be right in line with your agenda too.

If you think anonymous and unsubstantiated anecdotes help, they certainly do not. You have a clear agenda at play to bash SF at every opportunity so you're not really the most honest broker.

Just because it doesn't please you doesn't mean not true you know.

Elisha mc csllion was true, Shinners not giving nurses ríse was true, Shinners using and abusing conradh na gaeilge was true, Shinners sharing and abusing community jobs and money amongst them was true, covering up rape and sex abuse was true, leaving stolen postal votes in Chinese in Derry was true, not working for 3 years was true, the stories from volunteers dance was true, bullying people out of party was true, I could go on

I'm just pointing out that you have an agenda.

And putting forward sustained unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdotes only serve to undermine what it is you might be trying to achieve.

What's your agenda and none of it is unsubstantiated. Suck it up

I don't have an agenda.

I just speak out against biased one-eyed commentary from the likes of yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 02:11:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 01:38:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 01:20:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

I'm pretty sure he's not on GAA board but I'm also pretty sure if i name him he will soon hear. It's true , be pretty odd for me to sit on a sunday morning making up little dittos about Maria Cahill,I know that's what you would like to think is going on..

It might odd but it would also be right in line with your agenda too.

If you think anonymous and unsubstantiated anecdotes help, they certainly do not. You have a clear agenda at play to bash SF at every opportunity so you're not really the most honest broker.

Just because it doesn't please you doesn't mean not true you know.

Elisha mc csllion was true, Shinners not giving nurses ríse was true, Shinners using and abusing conradh na gaeilge was true, Shinners sharing and abusing community jobs and money amongst them was true, covering up rape and sex abuse was true, leaving stolen postal votes in Chinese in Derry was true, not working for 3 years was true, the stories from volunteers dance was true, bullying people out of party was true, I could go on

I'm just pointing out that you have an agenda.

And putting forward sustained unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdotes only serve to undermine what it is you might be trying to achieve.

What's your agenda and none of it is unsubstantiated. Suck it up

I don't have an agenda.

I just speak out against biased one-eyed commentary from the likes of yourself.

Laughable. I'm in minority here remember.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 02:11:21 PM


Laughable. I'm in minority here remember.

You might be in the minority but you're still full of shit and if you had an objective view you might be listened to.

But you are just an incessant SF basher of hearsay and unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdotes.

You have an agenda, at least be honest about that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 02:11:21 PM


Laughable. I'm in minority here remember.

You might be in the minority but you're still full of shit and if you had an objective view you might be listened to.

But you are just an incessant SF basher of hearsay and unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdotes.

You have an agenda, at least be honest about that.

. I don't think you are very quick, everything I have listed above has been substantiated somewhere. Take the blinkers off. I really don't care who listens to me or who attemps to shut me up with shouts of " no evidence blah blah blah"

Plenty of people responding to me on here including yourself so I'm pretty sure somebody's listening and I've definitely hit few raw nerves 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on December 20, 2020, 05:26:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 02:11:21 PM


Laughable. I'm in minority here remember.

You might be in the minority but you're still full of shit and if you had an objective view you might be listened to.

But you are just an incessant SF basher of hearsay and unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdotes.

You have an agenda, at least be honest about that.

I just had to highlight the hypocrisy of you of all people abusing anyone for posting hearsay and unsubstantiated comments.

As for you telling anyone they're full of shit given the nonsense you've posted on the Covid thread and lies you've posted in relation to Dublin funding, sponsorship and player's professions you have zero credibility

I bet you don't even see the irony of it. As you say yourself, be honest about it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on December 21, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
As expected Sinn Fein rise another few points in the polls, meanwhile FF and FG drop to record lows,  much lower than previous all time lows, so low the trapdoor will have to be opened soon. Perhaps Varadkar should have claimed credit for his humble part in imventing the covid vaccine Instead of focussing on drunken Shinner tweets buried in the depths of a twitter cesspit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 21, 2020, 07:29:39 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
As expected Sinn Fein rise another few points in the polls, meanwhile FF and FG drop to record lows,  much lower than previous all time lows, so low the trapdoor will have to be opened soon. Perhaps Varadkar should have claimed credit for his humble part in imventing the covid vaccine Instead of focussing on drunken Shinner tweets buried in the depths of a twitter cesspit.

Surely people in the Republic have noticed the.stotmont circus last while and are only playing around with pollsters
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 21, 2020, 09:13:36 AM
Imagine the Magdalene Sisters were running for government. And then imagine that voters in the ROI are going to elect them into government. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 21, 2020, 09:35:46 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 20, 2020, 05:26:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 02:11:21 PM


Laughable. I'm in minority here remember.

You might be in the minority but you're still full of shit and if you had an objective view you might be listened to.

But you are just an incessant SF basher of hearsay and unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdotes.

You have an agenda, at least be honest about that.

I just had to highlight the hypocrisy of you of all people abusing anyone for posting hearsay and unsubstantiated comments.

As for you telling anyone they're full of shit given the nonsense you've posted on the Covid thread and lies you've posted in relation to Dublin funding, sponsorship and player's professions you have zero credibility

I bet you don't even see the irony of it. As you say yourself, be honest about it.

That's your default response when someone gives you susbtantive posts ridiculing the indefensible you consistently defend.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 21, 2020, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 21, 2020, 09:13:36 AM
Imagine the Magdalene Sisters were running for government. And then imagine that voters in the ROI are going to elect them into government.

Isn't that essentially what they've been doing for the last century?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 21, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

It is 100% relevant.

As the record shows, this debate started because some shinner compared the PIRA bombing near Warrenpoint to the Old IRA ambush at Kilmichael.

You were outraged.

So your opinions on the Old IRA when involving yourself in this discussion are totally 100% relevant.

Why are you desperately flailing around trying to invent reasons not to answer a simple question?

Woah, look you said "desperately flailing" as if you think it's a point

It isn't

Yet more whataboutery

Again, it is unfortunate for you that this whole debate has been recorded.

It's not the pub where you can deny saying something.

The whole debate centres around a comparison of the PIRA to the Old IRA.

You've commented on the Old IRA campaign many times already in the course of this debate.

It's there, for all to see

But now, you try to pretend that the Old IRA is not relevant to the discussion

And it is you who would accuse others of behaving like Boris or Trump
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 01:34:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
As expected Sinn Fein rise another few points in the polls, meanwhile FF and FG drop to record lows,  much lower than previous all time lows, so low the trapdoor will have to be opened soon. Perhaps Varadkar should have claimed credit for his humble part in imventing the covid vaccine Instead of focussing on drunken Shinner tweets buried in the depths of a twitter cesspit.

FF and FG and their little bitches in the Irish Media have done Trojan work in improving Sinn Feins popularity. At last people are starting to see their little games and the media bias around them for what it is. Also interesting to see the 1 policy party Aontu getting 0% in the latest poll, given that their one agenda topic is now old news there isnt much point in them existing really - other than to give a certain ex SF a job.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 22, 2020, 05:53:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 01:34:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
As expected Sinn Fein rise another few points in the polls, meanwhile FF and FG drop to record lows,  much lower than previous all time lows, so low the trapdoor will have to be opened soon. Perhaps Varadkar should have claimed credit for his humble part in imventing the covid vaccine Instead of focussing on drunken Shinner tweets buried in the depths of a twitter cesspit.

FF and FG and their little bitches in the Irish Media have done Trojan work in improving Sinn Feins popularity. At last people are starting to see their little games and the media bias around them for what it is. Also interesting to see the 1 policy party Aontu getting 0% in the latest poll, given that their one agenda topic is now old news there isnt much point in them existing really - other than to give a certain ex SF a job.

It's quite strange the amount of airtime Peadar Toibín and Jim Allister etc. get in the media.  They get so much time, not even relative to other parties in terms of their votes etc.

Ireland has changed, and an alledgely right wing party like Aontú are finding this out. By the way, is Rénua still going with L. Creighton or have they folded?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 22, 2020, 09:26:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 22, 2020, 05:53:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 01:34:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
As expected Sinn Fein rise another few points in the polls, meanwhile FF and FG drop to record lows,  much lower than previous all time lows, so low the trapdoor will have to be opened soon. Perhaps Varadkar should have claimed credit for his humble part in imventing the covid vaccine Instead of focussing on drunken Shinner tweets buried in the depths of a twitter cesspit.

FF and FG and their little bitches in the Irish Media have done Trojan work in improving Sinn Feins popularity. At last people are starting to see their little games and the media bias around them for what it is. Also interesting to see the 1 policy party Aontu getting 0% in the latest poll, given that their one agenda topic is now old news there isnt much point in them existing really - other than to give a certain ex SF a job.

It's quite strange the amount of airtime Peadar Toibín and Jim Allister etc. get in the media.  They get so much time, not even relative to other parties in terms of their votes etc.

Ireland has changed, and an alledgely right wing party like Aontú are finding this out. By the way, is Rénua still going with L. Creighton or have they folded?

You really are a very poorly read and researched man. God bless and save us. Right wing lol. You know what you should do? Gag them, censor them, peadar is elected you know. Your like a wee Brit .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 22, 2020, 10:24:24 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

It is 100% relevant.

As the record shows, this debate started because some shinner compared the PIRA bombing near Warrenpoint to the Old IRA ambush at Kilmichael.

You were outraged.

So your opinions on the Old IRA when involving yourself in this discussion are totally 100% relevant.

Why are you desperately flailing around trying to invent reasons not to answer a simple question?

Woah, look you said "desperately flailing" as if you think it's a point

It isn't

Yet more whataboutery

Again, it is unfortunate for you that this whole debate has been recorded.

It's not the pub where you can deny saying something.

The whole debate centres around a comparison of the PIRA to the Old IRA.

You've commented on the Old IRA campaign many times already in the course of this debate.

It's there, for all to see

But now, you try to pretend that the Old IRA is not relevant to the discussion

And it is you who would accuse others of behaving like Boris or Trump
Why is it unfortunate for me?

I've made a fool of you and the other circle jerking murder fetishists like Angelo, Snapachap and RedHand88, which has been very enjoyable!

Sinn Fein's whole online strategy centres around violent pub style talk - we saw yet another example of it with the circle jerking online group which made the news

And it's the sort of pub talk where they don't have the guts to say something to somebody's face, the sort of pub talk where neanderthals joke about assaulting and killing people

Sinn Fein's whole political strategy is to whitewash murder by whataboutery

And that's exactly what you've been doing here the whole time

Which is unfortunate

The whole bloody strategy, and I use the word bloody intentionally, is unfortunate

If you want to act like Trump, own it, don't shirk it

Because that's exactly what you've been doing

Sinn Fein is the Irish Trump party





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 22, 2020, 11:16:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 22, 2020, 09:26:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 22, 2020, 05:53:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 01:34:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
As expected Sinn Fein rise another few points in the polls, meanwhile FF and FG drop to record lows,  much lower than previous all time lows, so low the trapdoor will have to be opened soon. Perhaps Varadkar should have claimed credit for his humble part in imventing the covid vaccine Instead of focussing on drunken Shinner tweets buried in the depths of a twitter cesspit.

FF and FG and their little bitches in the Irish Media have done Trojan work in improving Sinn Feins popularity. At last people are starting to see their little games and the media bias around them for what it is. Also interesting to see the 1 policy party Aontu getting 0% in the latest poll, given that their one agenda topic is now old news there isnt much point in them existing really - other than to give a certain ex SF a job.

It's quite strange the amount of airtime Peadar Toibín and Jim Allister etc. get in the media.  They get so much time, not even relative to other parties in terms of their votes etc.

Ireland has changed, and an alledgely right wing party like Aontú are finding this out. By the way, is Rénua still going with L. Creighton or have they folded?

You really are a very poorly read and researched man. God bless and save us. Right wing lol. You know what you should do? Gag them, censor them, peadar is elected you know. Your like a wee Brit .

Anybody?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 23, 2020, 12:27:26 AM
SF-bashers' tears never tasted so good  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 08:04:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 22, 2020, 10:24:24 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

It is 100% relevant.

As the record shows, this debate started because some shinner compared the PIRA bombing near Warrenpoint to the Old IRA ambush at Kilmichael.

You were outraged.

So your opinions on the Old IRA when involving yourself in this discussion are totally 100% relevant.

Why are you desperately flailing around trying to invent reasons not to answer a simple question?

Woah, look you said "desperately flailing" as if you think it's a point

It isn't

Yet more whataboutery

Again, it is unfortunate for you that this whole debate has been recorded.

It's not the pub where you can deny saying something.

The whole debate centres around a comparison of the PIRA to the Old IRA.

You've commented on the Old IRA campaign many times already in the course of this debate.

It's there, for all to see

But now, you try to pretend that the Old IRA is not relevant to the discussion

And it is you who would accuse others of behaving like Boris or Trump
Why is it unfortunate for me?

I've made a fool of you and the other circle jerking murder fetishists like Angelo, Snapachap and RedHand88, which has been very enjoyable!

Sinn Fein's whole online strategy centres around violent pub style talk - we saw yet another example of it with the circle jerking online group which made the news

And it's the sort of pub talk where they don't have the guts to say something to somebody's face, the sort of pub talk where neanderthals joke about assaulting and killing people

Sinn Fein's whole political strategy is to whitewash murder by whataboutery

And that's exactly what you've been doing here the whole time

Which is unfortunate

The whole bloody strategy, and I use the word bloody intentionally, is unfortunate

If you want to act like Trump, own it, don't shirk it

Because that's exactly what you've been doing

Sinn Fein is the Irish Trump party


Numerous insults

Zero substance

Undertones of aggression

Dollop of fake victimhood

Endless projection

This is exactly your level.


Just answer the question.


The effort that you're put willing to put into not answering it is very telling
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
Don't give this nonsense oxygen. SF use this as a tactic to exonerate themselves from their actions. By debating and engaging you're falling into their trap. It now becomes something that is "up for debate" or "that their are different, valid viewpoints" None of that is true. Best not to get involved.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 09:52:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
Don't give this nonsense oxygen. SF use this as a tactic to exonerate themselves from their actions. By debating and engaging you're falling into their trap. It now becomes something that is "up for debate" or "that their are different, valid viewpoints" None of that is true. Best not to get involved.

So you dislike balance?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Oh Sid's back.

9th attempt:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Please Note:
1. The question is as part of a debate which originated in discussions surrounding a tweet which drew parallels between the PIRA's Narrow Water ambush, and the Old IRA's Kilmichael ambush. So claiming that you can't discuss the Old IRA within that debate on grounds of "whataboutery" is clearly just the height of nonsense.

2. Given that you have already REPEATEDLY engaged in discusssions about the Old IRA (they were part of the very subject of the discussion from the start), then it becomes even more nonsensical to suddenly decry "whataboutery" as an excuse to avoid answering a question about them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
Don't give this nonsense oxygen. SF use this as a tactic to exonerate themselves from their actions. By debating and engaging you're falling into their trap. It now becomes something that is "up for debate" or "that their are different, valid viewpoints" None of that is true. Best not to get involved.

Has Colum stopped Brexit yet?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:23:17 PM
Whatever about Sid, Maryloo seems to have had a problem with Stanley comparing Kilmichael to Narrow Water.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Chief on December 23, 2020, 12:34:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:23:17 PM
Whatever about Sid, Maryloo seems to have had a problem with Stanley comparing Kilmichael to Narrow Water.

I'm guessing she knows it wasn't tactically smart - whatever about the rights and wrongs of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 23, 2020, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
Don't give this nonsense oxygen. SF use this as a tactic to exonerate themselves from their actions. By debating and engaging you're falling into their trap. It now becomes something that is "up for debate" or "that their are different, valid viewpoints" None of that is true. Best not to get involved.

Has Colum stopped Brexit yet?

Honestly , do you not actually see that comments like that make you appear like the boy down the back of the p7 class .

To be fair Colum pledged to work towards stopping brexit , it was an honourable pledge which he has a very large mandate in Derry for..
Would you suggest that he should have stood at the border in the pishing rain banging bin lids with Martina Anderson. Sure did she not say she was going to stop it from Brussels?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 12:41:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:23:17 PM
Whatever about Sid, Maryloo seems to have had a problem with Stanley comparing Kilmichael to Narrow Water.

Well that's just inaccurate.

She might have criticised him for the tone of the tweet but it certainly had little to do with comparing Warrenpoint to Kilmichael.

I don't see how anyone can really justify one without justifying the other or condemn out without justifying the other as to do so is hypocritical in the extreme.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:49:29 PM
Uachtarán Shinn Féin must be a hypocrite so ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on December 23, 2020, 01:08:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 22, 2020, 11:16:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 22, 2020, 09:26:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 22, 2020, 05:53:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 01:34:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
As expected Sinn Fein rise another few points in the polls, meanwhile FF and FG drop to record lows,  much lower than previous all time lows, so low the trapdoor will have to be opened soon. Perhaps Varadkar should have claimed credit for his humble part in imventing the covid vaccine Instead of focussing on drunken Shinner tweets buried in the depths of a twitter cesspit.

FF and FG and their little bitches in the Irish Media have done Trojan work in improving Sinn Feins popularity. At last people are starting to see their little games and the media bias around them for what it is. Also interesting to see the 1 policy party Aontu getting 0% in the latest poll, given that their one agenda topic is now old news there isnt much point in them existing really - other than to give a certain ex SF a job.

It's quite strange the amount of airtime Peadar Toibín and Jim Allister etc. get in the media.  They get so much time, not even relative to other parties in terms of their votes etc.

Ireland has changed, and an alledgely right wing party like Aontú are finding this out. By the way, is Rénua still going with L. Creighton or have they folded?

You really are a very poorly read and researched man. God bless and save us. Right wing lol. You know what you should do? Gag them, censor them, peadar is elected you know. Your like a wee Brit .

Anybody?

Peadair was angling for the Holy Joe vote but he has found out that there isnt many holy joes left and the ones that are all deeply intertwined in the civil war politics of FF & FG. As they say it is a dwindling market. Its a shame as he is well spoken and thats probably what gets him on the telly so much, that and the fact RTE would like to give SF a kick by giving one of the ex's 10 time more exposure on TV now that he left the party. Unfortunately for RTE and their buddies its not working.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 08:04:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 22, 2020, 10:24:24 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

It is 100% relevant.

As the record shows, this debate started because some shinner compared the PIRA bombing near Warrenpoint to the Old IRA ambush at Kilmichael.

You were outraged.

So your opinions on the Old IRA when involving yourself in this discussion are totally 100% relevant.

Why are you desperately flailing around trying to invent reasons not to answer a simple question?

Woah, look you said "desperately flailing" as if you think it's a point

It isn't

Yet more whataboutery

Again, it is unfortunate for you that this whole debate has been recorded.

It's not the pub where you can deny saying something.

The whole debate centres around a comparison of the PIRA to the Old IRA.

You've commented on the Old IRA campaign many times already in the course of this debate.

It's there, for all to see

But now, you try to pretend that the Old IRA is not relevant to the discussion

And it is you who would accuse others of behaving like Boris or Trump
Why is it unfortunate for me?

I've made a fool of you and the other circle jerking murder fetishists like Angelo, Snapachap and RedHand88, which has been very enjoyable!

Sinn Fein's whole online strategy centres around violent pub style talk - we saw yet another example of it with the circle jerking online group which made the news

And it's the sort of pub talk where they don't have the guts to say something to somebody's face, the sort of pub talk where neanderthals joke about assaulting and killing people

Sinn Fein's whole political strategy is to whitewash murder by whataboutery

And that's exactly what you've been doing here the whole time

Which is unfortunate

The whole bloody strategy, and I use the word bloody intentionally, is unfortunate

If you want to act like Trump, own it, don't shirk it

Because that's exactly what you've been doing

Sinn Fein is the Irish Trump party


Numerous insults

Zero substance

Undertones of aggression

Dollop of fake victimhood

Endless projection

This is exactly your level.


Just answer the question.


The effort that you're put willing to put into not answering it is very telling
You've offered zero substance on this thread

Whataboutery because you can't defend the civilian murders that you came on here to defend is not substance

Norman Tebbit's wife Margaret died yesterday, I've little time for her husband but that innocent woman spent the last 36 years of her life paralysed because of the actions of the PIRA

Have Sinn Fein made any comment?

Maybe their cheerleaders here might like to?



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Chief on December 23, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:49:29 PM
Uachtarán Shinn Féin must be a hypocrite so ;D

I think this thread has proved all major political party leaders are hypocrites - it's just whatever flavour of hypocrisy you're into that determines your vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:15:07 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 23, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:49:29 PM
Uachtarán Shinn Féin must be a hypocrite so ;D

I think this thread has proved all major political party leaders are hypocrites - it's just whatever flavour of hypocrisy you're into that determines your vote.
Sinn Fein's hypocrisy is far and away worse than any other Irish political party, even the DUP

At least everybody knows where they stand with the DUP
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 01:18:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:15:07 PM
Quote from: Chief on December 23, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:49:29 PM
Uachtarán Shinn Féin must be a hypocrite so ;D

I think this thread has proved all major political party leaders are hypocrites - it's just whatever flavour of hypocrisy you're into that determines your vote.
Sinn Fein's hypocrisy is far and away worse than any other Irish political party, even the DUP

At least everybody knows where they stand with the DUP

The irony of you speaking definitively on hypocrites. All you have done on this thread is contradict yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:19:02 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 23, 2020, 12:27:26 AM
SF-bashers' tears never tasted so good  ;)
A line straight from the Trump playbook

Shinner trolls don't even hide their adoption of Trump tactics




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:21:00 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 01:34:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
As expected Sinn Fein rise another few points in the polls, meanwhile FF and FG drop to record lows,  much lower than previous all time lows, so low the trapdoor will have to be opened soon. Perhaps Varadkar should have claimed credit for his humble part in imventing the covid vaccine Instead of focussing on drunken Shinner tweets buried in the depths of a twitter cesspit.

FF and FG and their little bitches in the Irish Media have done Trojan work in improving Sinn Feins popularity. At last people are starting to see their little games and the media bias around them for what it is. Also interesting to see the 1 policy party Aontu getting 0% in the latest poll, given that their one agenda topic is now old news there isnt much point in them existing really - other than to give a certain ex SF a job.
"Bitches", wow

Ssssssshhhhh, don't mention the truth
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:24:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

I'm pretty sure he's not on GAA board but I'm also pretty sure if i name him he will soon hear. It's true , be pretty odd for me to sit on a sunday morning making up little dittos about Maria Cahill,I know that's what you would like to think is going on..

It might odd but it would also be right in line with your agenda too.

If you think anonymous and unsubstantiated anecdotes help, they certainly do not. You have a clear agenda at play to bash SF at every opportunity so you're not really the most honest broker.

Shinners hate the truth

Exhibit A


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 08:04:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 22, 2020, 10:24:24 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 18, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 18, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
Attempt Five:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?
Again reaching for the whataboutery because you can't defend your beloved PIRA

Pathetic

Is it any wonder Shinners are laughed at

Adopting the tactics of the US Republican party wholesale

Except it's nothing to do with whataboutery. It's an attempt to get you to demonstrate consistency in your application of logic. Something I'd have thought you'd be only to eager to do. But alas, I'm having to ask this for a sixth time:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

It's classic whataboutery

Whataboutery is used as a deflection technique to bring up something irrelevant when somebody can't or refuses to debate something honestly, as has been the case with you and other Shinners throughout this thread

It's the Boris Johnson "dead cat" technique

You can keep asking a totally irrelevant question about a different conflict as many times as you like

But it has as much relevance to this debate as the price of fish

What is the price of a piece of cod these days?

You should know - you've sold about a hundred of them on this thread

It is 100% relevant.

As the record shows, this debate started because some shinner compared the PIRA bombing near Warrenpoint to the Old IRA ambush at Kilmichael.

You were outraged.

So your opinions on the Old IRA when involving yourself in this discussion are totally 100% relevant.

Why are you desperately flailing around trying to invent reasons not to answer a simple question?

Woah, look you said "desperately flailing" as if you think it's a point

It isn't

Yet more whataboutery

Again, it is unfortunate for you that this whole debate has been recorded.

It's not the pub where you can deny saying something.

The whole debate centres around a comparison of the PIRA to the Old IRA.

You've commented on the Old IRA campaign many times already in the course of this debate.

It's there, for all to see

But now, you try to pretend that the Old IRA is not relevant to the discussion

And it is you who would accuse others of behaving like Boris or Trump
Why is it unfortunate for me?

I've made a fool of you and the other circle jerking murder fetishists like Angelo, Snapachap and RedHand88, which has been very enjoyable!

Sinn Fein's whole online strategy centres around violent pub style talk - we saw yet another example of it with the circle jerking online group which made the news

And it's the sort of pub talk where they don't have the guts to say something to somebody's face, the sort of pub talk where neanderthals joke about assaulting and killing people

Sinn Fein's whole political strategy is to whitewash murder by whataboutery

And that's exactly what you've been doing here the whole time

Which is unfortunate

The whole bloody strategy, and I use the word bloody intentionally, is unfortunate

If you want to act like Trump, own it, don't shirk it

Because that's exactly what you've been doing

Sinn Fein is the Irish Trump party


Numerous insults

Zero substance

Undertones of aggression

Dollop of fake victimhood

Endless projection

This is exactly your level.


Just answer the question.


The effort that you're put willing to put into not answering it is very telling
You've offered zero substance on this thread

Whataboutery because you can't defend the civilian murders that you came on here to defend is not substance

Norman Tebbit's wife Margaret died yesterday, I've little time for her husband but that innocent woman spent the last 36 years of her life paralysed because of the actions of the PIRA

Have Sinn Fein made any comment?

Maybe their cheerleaders here might like to?

More bluster

But still no answers

Credibility = Zero
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:37:34 PM
Zzzzzzzzzz

And still none of the Shinnerbots have commented on Margaret Tebbit's death
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 01:41:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:24:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 20, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
You would have to suspect it's systemic in SF at this stage with all the stories that have emerged last few years. A senior shinner told me in private few years back that M Cahill was a dirty s@#t. There is a nastiness there . Experts at character assassination and spreading bile

You would have to imagine that you are unable to be objective and consistent in your viewpoint.

Nice little unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote there to suit your agenda.

Maybe you should name your senior SF source?

It would betray a friendship. I didn't just stop being friendly with some of these people because I don't vote them anymore, I did challenge him in language that time Look up m Cahill name search on Twitter and see historical abuse .

There's nothing like an anonymous, unsubstantiated anecdote to support a bias.

Have you not already betrayed a friendship by telling the story?

No

Looks like it to me.

I'm pretty sure he's not on GAA board but I'm also pretty sure if i name him he will soon hear. It's true , be pretty odd for me to sit on a sunday morning making up little dittos about Maria Cahill,I know that's what you would like to think is going on..

It might odd but it would also be right in line with your agenda too.

If you think anonymous and unsubstantiated anecdotes help, they certainly do not. You have a clear agenda at play to bash SF at every opportunity so you're not really the most honest broker.

Shinners hate the truth

Exhibit A

An unsubstantiated, anonymous anecdote is not the truth.

You seem to have a real problem with the truth. Yet another contradiction from yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:45:14 PM
I've been voicing truth bombs on this thread for well over a week now and at every stage, it's caused consternation for denialist Shinnerbots, living in their fantasy world as they are, with their fantasy, fake view of history

What Shinnerbots have is a pathology of the mind

Nationalism is a mental illness




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:45:14 PM
I've been voicing truth bombs on this thread for well over a week now and at every stage, it's caused consternation for denialist Shinnerbots, living in their fantasy world as they are, with their fantasy, fake view of history

What Shinnerbots have is a pathology of the mind

Nationalism is a mental illness

Amazing how you can't answer a simple question.

You have a real issue with the truth and your nastiness and maliciousness comes to the fore when confronted on it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:37:34 PM
Zzzzzzzzzz

And still none of the Shinnerbots have commented on Margaret Tebbit's death

Desperately flailing again, but unable to provide an answer, it has gone beyond embarrassing for you now

And now we throw out Margaret Tebbit

Maybe you'll be able to show me where you've displayed your genuine concern for her plight elsewhere on the board

And that it's not just a sociopathic reference to a woman's disability and death for political purposes

The sheer empathy of it all

Bingo

As you might say

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:54:03 PM
"You have a real issue with your nastiness against nihilistic murderers and their supporters", says the anti-vaxx Shinnerbot

Here are the real views of Shinnerbots

And these views were not taken down after Eoin O'Broin was alerted to them, they were made private

(https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4440686.1608307351!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 01:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:54:03 PM
"You have a real issue with your nastiness against nihilistic murderers and their supporters", says the anti-vaxx Shinnerbot

Here are the real views of Shinnerbots

And these views were not taken down after Eoin O'Broin was alerted to them, they were made private

(https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4440686.1608307351!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg)

None of what is said there is in the same ballpark of indecency as what you said on the Sean Browne murder.

Every post you make is one of faux outrage and moralising. You're a walking, talking contradiction and the nastiness comes to the fore when you are confronted on this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 02:00:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:45:14 PM
I've been voicing truth bombs on this thread for well over a week now and at every stage, it's caused consternation for denialist Shinnerbots, living in their fantasy world as they are, with their fantasy, fake view of history

What Shinnerbots have is a pathology of the mind

Nationalism is a mental illness

;D

Thanks for the laugh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:37:34 PM
Zzzzzzzzzz

And still none of the Shinnerbots have commented on Margaret Tebbit's death

Desperately flailing again, but unable to provide an answer, it has gone beyond embarrassing for you now

And now we throw out Margaret Tebbit

Maybe you'll be able to show me where you've displayed your genuine concern for her plight elsewhere on the board

And that it's not just a sociopathic reference to a woman's disability and death for political purposes

The sheer empathy of it all

Bingo

As you might say
Franko's position can be summarised as:

"Referencing a woman's disability suffered due to a terrorist bomb is what's "sociopathic" - not planting the bomb that inflicted that disability on her and killed five others and maimed many more - no, no - that wasn't sociopathic at all"

"Don't ever mention the victims again, actually, scratch that - don't ever mention their victims ever again because it forces us Shinners to think about the vile reality - even though we will mention "our" victims as much as we like in a self-consciously transparent and pathetic attempt to justify civilian murder"

Sociopathy ahoy

Ssssshhhhh, don't mention the truth

He's really outing himself for what he is now, isn't he









Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:37:34 PM
Zzzzzzzzzz

And still none of the Shinnerbots have commented on Margaret Tebbit's death

Desperately flailing again, but unable to provide an answer, it has gone beyond embarrassing for you now

And now we throw out Margaret Tebbit

Maybe you'll be able to show me where you've displayed your genuine concern for her plight elsewhere on the board

And that it's not just a sociopathic reference to a woman's disability and death for political purposes

The sheer empathy of it all

Bingo

As you might say
Franko's position can be summarised as:

"Referencing a woman's disability suffered due to a terrorist bomb is what's "sociopathic" - not planting the bomb that inflicted that disability on her and killed five others and maimed many more - no, no - that wasn't sociopathic at all"

"Don't ever mention the victims again, actually, scratch that - don't ever mention their victims ever again because it forces us Shinners to think about the vile reality - even though we will mention "our" victims as much as we like in a self-consciously transparent and pathetic attempt to justify civilian murder"

Sociopathy ahoy

Ssssshhhhh, don't mention the truth

He's really outing himself for what he is now, isn't he

The straw man generator is working overtime now

But STILL you haven't answered...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:08:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 01:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:54:03 PM
"You have a real issue with your nastiness against nihilistic murderers and their supporters", says the anti-vaxx Shinnerbot

Here are the real views of Shinnerbots

And these views were not taken down after Eoin O'Broin was alerted to them, they were made private

(https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4440686.1608307351!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg)

None of what is said there is in the same ballpark of indecency as what you said on the Sean Browne murder.

Every post you make is one of faux outrage and moralising. You're a walking, talking contradiction and the nastiness comes to the fore when you are confronted on this.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Shinner murder loving troll's gonna troll
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:37:34 PM
Zzzzzzzzzz

And still none of the Shinnerbots have commented on Margaret Tebbit's death

Desperately flailing again, but unable to provide an answer, it has gone beyond embarrassing for you now

And now we throw out Margaret Tebbit

Maybe you'll be able to show me where you've displayed your genuine concern for her plight elsewhere on the board

And that it's not just a sociopathic reference to a woman's disability and death for political purposes

The sheer empathy of it all

Bingo

As you might say
Franko's position can be summarised as:

"Referencing a woman's disability suffered due to a terrorist bomb is what's "sociopathic" - not planting the bomb that inflicted that disability on her and killed five others and maimed many more - no, no - that wasn't sociopathic at all"

"Don't ever mention the victims again, actually, scratch that - don't ever mention their victims ever again because it forces us Shinners to think about the vile reality - even though we will mention "our" victims as much as we like in a self-consciously transparent and pathetic attempt to justify civilian murder"

Sociopathy ahoy

Ssssshhhhh, don't mention the truth

He's really outing himself for what he is now, isn't he

The straw man generator is working overtime now

But STILL you haven't answered...
I posted an accurate representation of your and position

Your reaction to me referencing the death of Margaret Tebbit and the awful disability she suffered as a result of the Brighton bomb was exactly as I expected

Sociopathic, zero empathy for victims

Too late to walk it back now with weasel words

Give Shinners enough rope and they'll always use it



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 02:12:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:08:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 01:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:54:03 PM
"You have a real issue with your nastiness against nihilistic murderers and their supporters", says the anti-vaxx Shinnerbot

Here are the real views of Shinnerbots

And these views were not taken down after Eoin O'Broin was alerted to them, they were made private

(https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4440686.1608307351!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg)

None of what is said there is in the same ballpark of indecency as what you said on the Sean Browne murder.

Every post you make is one of faux outrage and moralising. You're a walking, talking contradiction and the nastiness comes to the fore when you are confronted on this.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Shinner murder loving troll's gonna troll

My debating here has been calm and rational while you have steadily lost the plot and resorted to personal insults

Sid 2020
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 02:18:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:37:34 PM
Zzzzzzzzzz

And still none of the Shinnerbots have commented on Margaret Tebbit's death

Desperately flailing again, but unable to provide an answer, it has gone beyond embarrassing for you now

And now we throw out Margaret Tebbit

Maybe you'll be able to show me where you've displayed your genuine concern for her plight elsewhere on the board

And that it's not just a sociopathic reference to a woman's disability and death for political purposes

The sheer empathy of it all

Bingo

As you might say
Franko's position can be summarised as:

"Referencing a woman's disability suffered due to a terrorist bomb is what's "sociopathic" - not planting the bomb that inflicted that disability on her and killed five others and maimed many more - no, no - that wasn't sociopathic at all"

"Don't ever mention the victims again, actually, scratch that - don't ever mention their victims ever again because it forces us Shinners to think about the vile reality - even though we will mention "our" victims as much as we like in a self-consciously transparent and pathetic attempt to justify civilian murder"

Sociopathy ahoy

Ssssshhhhh, don't mention the truth

He's really outing himself for what he is now, isn't he

The straw man generator is working overtime now

But STILL you haven't answered...
I posted an accurate representation of your and position

Your reaction to me referencing the death of Margaret Tebbit and the awful disability she suffered as a result of the Brighton bomb was exactly as I expected

Sociopathic, zero empathy for victims

Too late to walk it back now with weasel words

Give Shinners enough rope and they'll always use it

Nope

Victim bingo is what you were doing - to detract from your obvious inability to answer a simple question

A Donald/Boris/Dominic -esque dead cat

You could prove me wrong by pointing me to somewhere else where you had shown a genuine care for her plight

But you can't

Because you haven't
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:22:12 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 02:12:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:08:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 01:59:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:54:03 PM
"You have a real issue with your nastiness against nihilistic murderers and their supporters", says the anti-vaxx Shinnerbot

Here are the real views of Shinnerbots

And these views were not taken down after Eoin O'Broin was alerted to them, they were made private

(https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4440686.1608307351!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg)

None of what is said there is in the same ballpark of indecency as what you said on the Sean Browne murder.

Every post you make is one of faux outrage and moralising. You're a walking, talking contradiction and the nastiness comes to the fore when you are confronted on this.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Shinner murder loving troll's gonna troll

My debating here has been calm and rational while you have steadily lost the plot and resorted to personal insults

Sid 2020
Facts are not insults, mate

The truth is not an insult, it cannot be an insult by definition

What is an insult is a sociopathic reaction to the simple referencing of a real victim

Not an insult to me, but to basic decency and humanity

You see, the term "victim bingo" is very interesting psychologically

Sinn Fein supporters hate being being confronted with the stories of victims

They don't want to know their names, their backgrounds, what their faces look like, how they died or how they suffered

They don't want to know any of that

It would upset the narrative of exclusive eternal victimhood they seek to claim for themselves

The only thing they can do is to try and silence any mention of the "inconvenient" victims

Obliterate them from history

The term "victim bingo" as used by Shinners seeks to obliterate these victims and is a deep, deep form of sociopathy

This is what happens when nationalism gets out of control, people who otherwise might be quite sensible let the red mist descend on them and decide to become frothing lunatics

Like "Franko"

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 02:24:17 PM
Wow, as I was writing the previous post I hadn't even seen Franko's latest post - and lo and behold, there he goes with the term "victim bingo" again

Shinners are nothing if not predictable

Sociopathy 101
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 02:32:46 PM
Again, no answers

Just a weak attempt to steer the debate away

And pathetically and transparently using Margaret Tebbit's name to do so

Just answer the question

'mate'
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 03:29:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:37:34 PM
Zzzzzzzzzz

And still none of the Shinnerbots have commented on Margaret Tebbit's death

And still you won't answer whether or not you would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign". Maybe you will now. (Just the tenth attempt now at getting an answer)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 23, 2020, 03:34:37 PM
Would people please stop engaging with that narcissist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 04:09:43 PM
The Shinnerbot circle jerkers gather around again

Even moral degeneracy requires moral support  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 04:17:27 PM
Funnily enough I never once read a mention of a northern Catholic victim of the Troubles being referred to here as "victim bingo" - well, at least the ones that weren't murdered by the PIRA - in which case they do indeed revert to being "victim bingo" in the eyes of Shinnerbots

Strange that

But I suppose that's the essential sectarianism of Shinnerbots

I'll tell you this though, it would be interesting to see how they reacted if somebody referred to Sean Browne as "victim bingo"







Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 04:17:27 PM
Funnily enough I never once read a mention of a northern Catholic victim of the Troubles being referred to here as "victim bingo" - well, at least the ones that weren't murdered by the PIRA - in which case they do indeed revert to being "victim bingo" in the eyes of Shinnerbots

Strange that

But I suppose that's the essential sectarianism of Shinnerbots

I'll tell you this though, it would be interesting to see how they reacted if somebody referred to Sean Browne as "victim bingo"

The same.

And ironically, that's  exactly what YOU were engaging in when YOU first brought his name up.

In another pathetic attempt to score points

Another post

More deflection

More insults

More buzz words

No substance

No answers

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 04:34:58 PM
"Ironically, that's what you were doing"

Repeat x 31444444444444......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
Speaking of repeating things. For the 11th time, Sid:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on December 23, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
Speaking of repeating things. For the 11th time, Sid:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

I would call the IRA bombing campaign a senseless attack on innocent civilian people. How can it be anything else?

My uncle was lucky not to be killed in the canary wharf bombing. How this was supposed to help bring in a united Ireland is beyond me
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 23, 2020, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
Don't give this nonsense oxygen. SF use this as a tactic to exonerate themselves from their actions. By debating and engaging you're falling into their trap. It now becomes something that is "up for debate" or "that their are different, valid viewpoints" None of that is true. Best not to get involved.

Has Colum stopped Brexit yet?

Honestly , do you not actually see that comments like that make you appear like the boy down the back of the p7 class .

To be fair Colum pledged to work towards stopping brexit , it was an honourable pledge which he has a very large mandate in Derry for..
Would you suggest that he should have stood at the border in the pishing rain banging bin lids with Martina Anderson. Sure did she not say she was going to stop it from Brussels?

No, I'm fairly sure Colum said, if elected, he'd stop Brexit.

Clear statement of intent - epic fail.

Anderson is a poor politician - seems to be a lack of talent in that area.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 07:40:12 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 23, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
Speaking of repeating things. For the 11th time, Sid:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

I would call the IRA bombing campaign a senseless attack on innocent civilian people. How can it be anything else?

My uncle was lucky not to be killed in the canary wharf bombing. How this was supposed to help bring in a united Ireland is beyond me

You may want to re-read the question. Which I'm actually directing at Sid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 23, 2020, 07:42:39 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 23, 2020, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
Don't give this nonsense oxygen. SF use this as a tactic to exonerate themselves from their actions. By debating and engaging you're falling into their trap. It now becomes something that is "up for debate" or "that their are different, valid viewpoints" None of that is true. Best not to get involved.

Has Colum stopped Brexit yet?

Honestly , do you not actually see that comments like that make you appear like the boy down the back of the p7 class .

To be fair Colum pledged to work towards stopping brexit , it was an honourable pledge which he has a very large mandate in Derry for..
Would you suggest that he should have stood at the border in the pishing rain banging bin lids with Martina Anderson. Sure did she not say she was going to stop it from Brussels?

No, I'm fairly sure Colum said, if elected, he'd stop Brexit.

Clear statement of intent - epic fail.

Anderson is a poor politician - seems to be a lack of talent in that area.

Imagine the incompetence of a party putting her forward as MEP. And btw the SF border binlid banging went on in every border cumann from Muff to Carlingford.

Who would have thought , colum couldn't single handedly tip scales with EU 26 and UK. I'm pretty sure he said his party would vote to stop it at Westminster with others, Shame on him
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 08:42:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 04:34:58 PM
"Ironically, that's what you were doing"

Repeat x 31444444444444......

Yet another pointless post

More desperate flailing

No answers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JoG2 on December 23, 2020, 08:51:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 23, 2020, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
Don't give this nonsense oxygen. SF use this as a tactic to exonerate themselves from their actions. By debating and engaging you're falling into their trap. It now becomes something that is "up for debate" or "that their are different, valid viewpoints" None of that is true. Best not to get involved.

Has Colum stopped Brexit yet?

Honestly , do you not actually see that comments like that make you appear like the boy down the back of the p7 class .

To be fair Colum pledged to work towards stopping brexit , it was an honourable pledge which he has a very large mandate in Derry for..
Would you suggest that he should have stood at the border in the pishing rain banging bin lids with Martina Anderson. Sure did she not say she was going to stop it from Brussels?

No, I'm fairly sure Colum said, if elected, he'd stop Brexit.

Clear statement of intent - epic fail.

Anderson is a poor politician - seems to be a lack of talent in that area.

Throw up the newspaper quote or video. You're 'fairly sure', and proceed to say it was a 'clear statement of intent - epic fail'. Is it fairly, or clear?
He said on numerous occasions, himself and his party would do everything in their power to stop Brexit, as most did. Maybe he absolutely said he would stop Brexit from his lofty political position , but I didn't hear it. Neither a SF or SDLP voter am I BTW.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 09:23:46 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 23, 2020, 08:51:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 23, 2020, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 23, 2020, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
Don't give this nonsense oxygen. SF use this as a tactic to exonerate themselves from their actions. By debating and engaging you're falling into their trap. It now becomes something that is "up for debate" or "that their are different, valid viewpoints" None of that is true. Best not to get involved.

Has Colum stopped Brexit yet?

Honestly , do you not actually see that comments like that make you appear like the boy down the back of the p7 class .

To be fair Colum pledged to work towards stopping brexit , it was an honourable pledge which he has a very large mandate in Derry for..
Would you suggest that he should have stood at the border in the pishing rain banging bin lids with Martina Anderson. Sure did she not say she was going to stop it from Brussels?

No, I'm fairly sure Colum said, if elected, he'd stop Brexit.

Clear statement of intent - epic fail.

Anderson is a poor politician - seems to be a lack of talent in that area.

Throw up the newspaper quote or video. You're 'fairly sure', and proceed to say it was a 'clear statement of intent - epic fail'. Is it fairly, or clear?
He said on numerous occasions, himself and his party would do everything in their power to stop Brexit, as most did. Maybe he absolutely said he would stop Brexit from his lofty political position , but I didn't hear it. Neither a SF or SDLP voter am I BTW.

"Some claim that we can't stop Brexit. Well we can, with your help. For years the Tories have failed to get Brexit done - that's because of MPs voting at Westminster. You can help us ensure it never gets done. Here are some of the ways SDLP votes can count in the next parliament"

His Twitter account on Dec 8th 2019.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 10:42:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 08:42:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 04:34:58 PM
"Ironically, that's what you were doing"

Repeat x 31444444444444......
Yet another pointless post

More desperate flailing

No answers
"Yet another pointless post"

Self awareness ahoy  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 10:50:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 23, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
Speaking of repeating things. For the 11th time, Sid:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

I would call the IRA bombing campaign a senseless attack on innocent civilian people. How can it be anything else?

My uncle was lucky not to be killed in the canary wharf bombing. How this was supposed to help bring in a united Ireland is beyond me

£150m worth of damage to the British Exchequer.

It brought John Major to the negotiating table.

The Brits didn't really care about the loss of life, that's one thing they have in common with Sid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
You'd knock a half decent stand up comedy sketch out of all this Shinnerbot whataboutery

Actually they've done that themselves - but nobody's laughing with them

'Tis quite hilarious the lengths they'll go to whatabout, they've even whatabouted themselves into sounding like Ruth Dudley Edwards herself - in between sounding like Dessie O'Hare as he was chopping off John O'Grady's fingers one by one

I haven't heard as much whataboutery since Michael Jackson's Earthsong








Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:02:35 PM
There has been a fair bit of whataboutery alright. But they've also managed to tie you in a bit of a knot as well. One that you can't seem to untangle yourself from. A straight answer to Snapchat's question seems to be beyond you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:03:33 PM
Ooh, a split in the Shinnerbot circle jerkers

Snapchap condemning Canary Wharf, Angelo eulogises it as a grand day for the oul' sod

Angelo displays remarkable ignorance - John Major never came to the negotiating table with the PIRA

I love when eejits demonstrate their ignorance of something they're professing to be an expert in

As somebody in a Mayo pub might say, read your history



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:02:35 PM
There has been a fair bit of whataboutery alright. But they've also managed to tie you in a bit of a knot as well. One that you can't seem to untangle yourself from. A straight answer to Snapchat's question seems to be beyond you.
I've been the only person to answer a single question on this thread, in fact I've answered them all

The Shinnerbots have answered none

They aren't capable of answering a single question

Exact same logic as the dissos
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:46 PM
Fair enough. Maybe I missed it. Had brief read through but couldn't see any answer. Which post covered an answer to the below?


Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Oh Sid's back.

9th attempt:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Please Note:
1. The question is as part of a debate which originated in discussions surrounding a tweet which drew parallels between the PIRA's Narrow Water ambush, and the Old IRA's Kilmichael ambush. So claiming that you can't discuss the Old IRA within that debate on grounds of "whataboutery" is clearly just the height of nonsense.

2. Given that you have already REPEATEDLY engaged in discusssions about the Old IRA (they were part of the very subject of the discussion from the start), then it becomes even more nonsensical to suddenly decry "whataboutery" as an excuse to avoid answering a question about them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:13:36 PM
Sid doesn't deal with the truth like most people who share his far right ideology.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:15:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:13:36 PM
Sid doesn't deal with the truth like most people who share his far right ideology.
The PIRA were far right, mate

Sectarian slaughter and extreme nationalism is inherently far right

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:20:12 PM
From another thread

Quote from: Main Street on December 23, 2020, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 04:30:34 PM
Is it right that one dose is 91% compared to the 95% for 2 doses ?  Tony Blair was saying today to forget about the second dose and give more people one dose.  If the above figures are right it would make sense.
Was that Tony Blair MD an expert in epidemiology  or Tony Blair WMD?
Surely, to use PIRA logic, Britain going to war against the Nazis was the right thing to do, so therefore going to war in Iraq was the right thing to do?

Their own logic, not mine
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:22:10 PM
Any joy with the post reference for where you answered Snapchat's question?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 11:25:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:46 PM
Fair enough. Maybe I missed it. Had brief read through but couldn't see any answer. Which post covered an answer to the below?


Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Oh Sid's back.

9th attempt:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Please Note:
1. The question is as part of a debate which originated in discussions surrounding a tweet which drew parallels between the PIRA's Narrow Water ambush, and the Old IRA's Kilmichael ambush. So claiming that you can't discuss the Old IRA within that debate on grounds of "whataboutery" is clearly just the height of nonsense.

2. Given that you have already REPEATEDLY engaged in discusssions about the Old IRA (they were part of the very subject of the discussion from the start), then it becomes even more nonsensical to suddenly decry "whataboutery" as an excuse to avoid answering a question about them.

Yep, this is the one.

He's in some bind here

It's funny to watch the desperation

The endless angry posts about circle jerking (definitely an issue there)

Clutching for anything which could steer the conversation away

Insult after insult

When all he has to do is answer this simple question
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:29:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 11:25:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:46 PM
Fair enough. Maybe I missed it. Had brief read through but couldn't see any answer. Which post covered an answer to the below?


Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Oh Sid's back.

9th attempt:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Please Note:
1. The question is as part of a debate which originated in discussions surrounding a tweet which drew parallels between the PIRA's Narrow Water ambush, and the Old IRA's Kilmichael ambush. So claiming that you can't discuss the Old IRA within that debate on grounds of "whataboutery" is clearly just the height of nonsense.

2. Given that you have already REPEATEDLY engaged in discusssions about the Old IRA (they were part of the very subject of the discussion from the start), then it becomes even more nonsensical to suddenly decry "whataboutery" as an excuse to avoid answering a question about them.

Yep, this is the one.

He's in some bind here

It's funny to watch the desperation

The endless angry posts about circle jerking (definitely an issue there)

Clutching for anything which could steer the conversation away

Insult after insult

When all he has to do is answer this simple question
How am I in a bind

I'm not the person using disso logic

You are

You're the person who has used insult after insult

Also it's quite hilarious that as well as disso logic, the Shinnerbots like yourself are now using Eoghan Harris and Kevin Myers version of history!

You couldn't make it up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:31:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:15:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:13:36 PM
Sid doesn't deal with the truth like most people who share his far right ideology.
The PIRA were far right, mate

Sectarian slaughter and extreme nationalism is inherently far right

You are far right.

You're the only one on here who advocates sectarian slaughter. Your comments on Sean Browne told us all we need to know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:29:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 11:25:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:46 PM
Fair enough. Maybe I missed it. Had brief read through but couldn't see any answer. Which post covered an answer to the below?


Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Oh Sid's back.

9th attempt:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Please Note:
1. The question is as part of a debate which originated in discussions surrounding a tweet which drew parallels between the PIRA's Narrow Water ambush, and the Old IRA's Kilmichael ambush. So claiming that you can't discuss the Old IRA within that debate on grounds of "whataboutery" is clearly just the height of nonsense.

2. Given that you have already REPEATEDLY engaged in discusssions about the Old IRA (they were part of the very subject of the discussion from the start), then it becomes even more nonsensical to suddenly decry "whataboutery" as an excuse to avoid answering a question about them.

Yep, this is the one.

He's in some bind here

It's funny to watch the desperation

The endless angry posts about circle jerking (definitely an issue there)

Clutching for anything which could steer the conversation away

Insult after insult

When all he has to do is answer this simple question
How am I in a bind

I'm not the person using disso logic

You are

You're the person who has used insult after insult

Also it's quite hilarious that as well as disso logic, the Shinnerbots like yourself are now using Eoghan Harris and Kevin Myers version of history!

You couldn't make it up

More boilerplate crap from you Sid

We all see through your deflection

Just answer the question and it'll all be over
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:37:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:29:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 11:25:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:46 PM
Fair enough. Maybe I missed it. Had brief read through but couldn't see any answer. Which post covered an answer to the below?


Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Oh Sid's back.

9th attempt:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Please Note:
1. The question is as part of a debate which originated in discussions surrounding a tweet which drew parallels between the PIRA's Narrow Water ambush, and the Old IRA's Kilmichael ambush. So claiming that you can't discuss the Old IRA within that debate on grounds of "whataboutery" is clearly just the height of nonsense.

2. Given that you have already REPEATEDLY engaged in discusssions about the Old IRA (they were part of the very subject of the discussion from the start), then it becomes even more nonsensical to suddenly decry "whataboutery" as an excuse to avoid answering a question about them.

Yep, this is the one.

He's in some bind here

It's funny to watch the desperation

The endless angry posts about circle jerking (definitely an issue there)

Clutching for anything which could steer the conversation away

Insult after insult

When all he has to do is answer this simple question
How am I in a bind

I'm not the person using disso logic

You are

You're the person who has used insult after insult

Also it's quite hilarious that as well as disso logic, the Shinnerbots like yourself are now using Eoghan Harris and Kevin Myers version of history!

You couldn't make it up

You are in a wee bit of a bind to be fair.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:40:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:46 PM
Fair enough. Maybe I missed it. Had brief read through but couldn't see any answer. Which post covered an answer to the below?


Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Oh Sid's back.

9th attempt:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Please Note:
1. The question is as part of a debate which originated in discussions surrounding a tweet which drew parallels between the PIRA's Narrow Water ambush, and the Old IRA's Kilmichael ambush. So claiming that you can't discuss the Old IRA within that debate on grounds of "whataboutery" is clearly just the height of nonsense.

2. Given that you have already REPEATEDLY engaged in discusssions about the Old IRA (they were part of the very subject of the discussion from the start), then it becomes even more nonsensical to suddenly decry "whataboutery" as an excuse to avoid answering a question about them.

Post up the stats there from the War of Independence

Exactly what killings were civilian, by who, where, and whether they were sectarian or not

Cite historians

Bad shit happened during the War of Independence

Bad shit happens in every war

But some wars are justifiable and some are not

The War of Independence has at least a plausible case for being a morally just war which I've explained ad nauseum and been met with silence as regards - you can debate that case but it is a plausible one

The PIRA campaign doesn't have one, because it went on for 28 years of nihilism - not two years

The default reaction of Shinnerbots is to always point to something else and cry whataboutery

On this thread the PIRA logic is the exact same as "The Allied campaign during World War II was justified, so therefore the War in Iraq must have been too"

And there has been zero response, only silence

The logic is also the current disso logic - the exact same logic as the PIRA used

But that logic is bunkum

On this thread, the view of history espoused by the Shinnerbots has been one of the child like naivety and cynical, Putin-esque attempts to reduce complex matters of just war to a crude reductionism and slogans

They've been "loosing" the plot since the start





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:45:59 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 11:33:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:29:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 23, 2020, 11:25:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:46 PM
Fair enough. Maybe I missed it. Had brief read through but couldn't see any answer. Which post covered an answer to the below?


Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Oh Sid's back.

9th attempt:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Please Note:
1. The question is as part of a debate which originated in discussions surrounding a tweet which drew parallels between the PIRA's Narrow Water ambush, and the Old IRA's Kilmichael ambush. So claiming that you can't discuss the Old IRA within that debate on grounds of "whataboutery" is clearly just the height of nonsense.

2. Given that you have already REPEATEDLY engaged in discusssions about the Old IRA (they were part of the very subject of the discussion from the start), then it becomes even more nonsensical to suddenly decry "whataboutery" as an excuse to avoid answering a question about them.

Yep, this is the one.

He's in some bind here

It's funny to watch the desperation

The endless angry posts about circle jerking (definitely an issue there)

Clutching for anything which could steer the conversation away

Insult after insult

When all he has to do is answer this simple question
How am I in a bind

I'm not the person using disso logic

You are

You're the person who has used insult after insult

Also it's quite hilarious that as well as disso logic, the Shinnerbots like yourself are now using Eoghan Harris and Kevin Myers version of history!

You couldn't make it up

More boilerplate crap from you Sid

We all see through your deflection

Just answer the question and it'll all be over
Again, you refuse to deal with complex reality

War is not simple, war cannot be reduced to "terrible stuff happened in one war so every other war that terrible stuff happened in is the exact same"

That is your logic

Deal with the Iraq War/World War II comparison

Saddam Hussein was a brutal tyrant

But the Iraq War cannot be morally justified for a host of reasons - do you agree?

But because terrible things happened in Iraq and terrible things also happened in World War II, under your logic, Iraq and World War II are the exact same

Again, this is your logic and the Shinnerbot logic

Now, deal with your logic, why you hold it, and justify it

You won't be able to
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:46:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:40:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:46 PM
Fair enough. Maybe I missed it. Had brief read through but couldn't see any answer. Which post covered an answer to the below?


Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Oh Sid's back.

9th attempt:
Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

Please Note:
1. The question is as part of a debate which originated in discussions surrounding a tweet which drew parallels between the PIRA's Narrow Water ambush, and the Old IRA's Kilmichael ambush. So claiming that you can't discuss the Old IRA within that debate on grounds of "whataboutery" is clearly just the height of nonsense.

2. Given that you have already REPEATEDLY engaged in discusssions about the Old IRA (they were part of the very subject of the discussion from the start), then it becomes even more nonsensical to suddenly decry "whataboutery" as an excuse to avoid answering a question about them.

Post up the stats there from the War of Independence

Exactly what killings were civilian, by who, where, and whether they were sectarian or not

Cite historians

Bad shit happened during the War of Independence

Bad shit happens in every war

But some wars are justifiable and some are not

The War of Independence has at least a plausible case for being a morally just war which I've explained ad nauseum and been met with silence as regards - you can debate that case but it is a plausible one

The PIRA campaign doesn't have one, because it went on for 28 years of nihilism - not two years

The default reaction of Shinnerbots is to always point to something else and cry whataboutery

On this thread the PIRA logic is the exact same as "The Allied campaign during World War II was justified, so therefore the War in Iraq must have been too"

And there has been zero response, only silence

The logic is also the current disso logic - the exact same logic as the PIRA used

But that logic is bunkum

On this thread, the view of history espoused by the Shinnerbots has been one of the child like naivety and cynical, Putin-esque attempts to reduce complex matters of just war to a crude reductionism and slogans

They've been "loosing" the plot since the start

You failed to answer the question again.

That's what happens when you tie yourself in a knot of faux outrage and contradictions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:49:41 PM
Zzzzzzzz

Angelo, the bomb loving answer to a question nobody asked
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified? (allowing that some horrible things happened during it)
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:54:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified?
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now

Bit rich of you to ask questions when you won't answer them yourself.

That's textbook far right behaviour.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on December 23, 2020, 11:56:46 PM
Yes,
No.
Up Tyrone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:58:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:54:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified?
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now

Bit rich of you to ask questions when you won't answer them yourself.

That's textbook far right behaviour.
I've answered every question on this thread comprehensively

You and the other Shinnerbots haven't answered a single one - and I have put many questions throughout the course of the thread

Circle jerking like Twitter trollbots is not debating

You're anti-abortion, anti-gay rights and pro-Putin, and pro bombing of civilian targets

All these are textbook far right views

The projection is hilarious

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 24, 2020, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:58:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:54:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified?
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now

Bit rich of you to ask questions when you won't answer them yourself.

That's textbook far right behaviour.
I've answered every question on this thread comprehensively

You and the other Shinnerbots haven't answered a single one

Circle jerking like Twitter trollbots is not debating

You're anti-abortion, anti-gay rights and pro-Putin, and pro bombing of civilian targets

All these are textbook far right views

The projection is hilarious

That's just another lie.

You have point blank refused to answer the question because it contradicts your sanctimonious revisionism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 24, 2020, 12:02:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 24, 2020, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:58:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:54:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified?
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now

Bit rich of you to ask questions when you won't answer them yourself.

That's textbook far right behaviour.
I've answered every question on this thread comprehensively

You and the other Shinnerbots haven't answered a single one

Circle jerking like Twitter trollbots is not debating

You're anti-abortion, anti-gay rights and pro-Putin, and pro bombing of civilian targets

All these are textbook far right views

The projection is hilarious

That's just another lie.

You have point blank refused to answer the question because it contradicts your sanctimonious revisionism.
Pretty much everything you say on this forum is a lie

You're also in lockstep with the cliched far right Tory press views on Covid

Yet another thing you hold far right views on

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 24, 2020, 12:02:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified? (allowing that some horrible things happened during it)
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now
I'm not a shinnerbot but just to answer,

1- yes
2- No

But I think the issue is you claimed the PIRA campaign was a Civilian murder campaign. But the stats would be more towards military targets. Therefore given the old IRA also had civilian deaths would it also be considered a civilian murder campaign?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 24, 2020, 12:03:22 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 23, 2020, 11:56:46 PM
Yes,
No.
Up Tyrone.
They didn't bring Uncle Sam home
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 24, 2020, 12:05:05 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 24, 2020, 12:02:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified? (allowing that some horrible things happened during it)
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now
I'm not a shinnerbot but just to answer,

1- yes
2- No

But I think the issue is you claimed the PIRA campaign was a Civilian murder campaign. But the stats would be more towards military targets. Therefore given the old IRA also had civilian deaths would it also be considered a civilian murder campaign?

Sid is all for civilian murders but rather than admit it he won't answer that question.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 24, 2020, 12:11:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified? (allowing that some horrible things happened during it)
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now

;D

And you were banging on that questions about the Old IRA were irrelevant to the subject matter.

Nonetheless, I'll indulge you.

i) Yes
ii) No

Now, back to your question
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 24, 2020, 12:21:53 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 24, 2020, 12:02:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified? (allowing that some horrible things happened during it)
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now
I'm not a shinnerbot but just to answer,

1- yes
2- No

But I think the issue is you claimed the PIRA campaign was a Civilian murder campaign. But the stats would be more towards military targets. Therefore given the old IRA also had civilian deaths would it also be considered a civilian murder campaign?
So you accept that one war can be plausibly justified and another cannot

I accept that too

Civilian murders take place in all wars, in the War of Independence, the PIRA campaign, World War II, and Iraq

But as we now accept, World War II and Iraq are not morally equivalent

And neither are the War of Independence and the PIRA campaign morally equivalent

The PIRA knew they had no hope whatsoever of winning - they knew this early, and yet they kept going for 28 years

Again I ask for exact statistics about civilian murders in the War of Independence - how many, when, where, and the views of historians of them

The PIRA murdered 644 civilians over 28 years as well as over a thousand others and did so right up to the end in a campaign they never had a hope of winning and which did nothing except inflict societal devastation

When I ask what was it for, the answer can only be nothing

And Warrenpoint and Teebane and Deal and the many boob trap car bombs on RUC officers were just as futile as the civilian murder, killing for the sake of killing

And therefore the moral justification for the campaign is non-existent and those who waged it should live with the knowledge and the shame that they did nothing except bring devastation to their areas and the areas of many others

This is the central denial at the heart of Sinn Fein today, they refuse to accept this

The PIRA were hated by the people of the south who saw right through them and in the north the SDLP consistently polled way above them - the people of the north also saw through them

Slow learners indeed





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 24, 2020, 12:27:21 AM
Yeah

You still haven't answered
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 24, 2020, 12:29:19 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 24, 2020, 12:11:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified? (allowing that some horrible things happened during it)
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now

;D

And you were banging on that questions about the Old IRA were irrelevant to the subject matter.

Nonetheless, I'll indulge you.

i) Yes
ii) No

Now, back to your question

So you accept that one war can be justified and another cannot

You now accept the premise that equating the War of Independence to the PIRA campaign in terms of moral justifiability is just as stupid as equating World War II to Iraq in terms of moral justifiability

That they are not the same

Civilian slaughter of course occurred in the War of Independence and that can never be justified

But the overall campaign has a plausible claim to moral justifiability in a way the PIRA campaign does not - in the same way that the Allied campaign of World War II has a claim of moral justification while the Iraq War does not





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 24, 2020, 01:05:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 24, 2020, 12:21:53 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 24, 2020, 12:02:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Question for all the Shinnerbots here:

i) Was the Allied campaign in World War II, on the whole, justified? (allowing that some horrible things happened during it)
ii) Was the US/British campaign in Iraq in 2003, on the whole, justified?

Answer the questions, now
I'm not a shinnerbot but just to answer,

1- yes
2- No

But I think the issue is you claimed the PIRA campaign was a Civilian murder campaign. But the stats would be more towards military targets. Therefore given the old IRA also had civilian deaths would it also be considered a civilian murder campaign?
So you accept that one war can be plausibly justified and another cannot

I accept that too

Civilian murders take place in all wars, in the War of Independence, the PIRA campaign, World War II, and Iraq

But as we now accept, World War II and Iraq are not morally equivalent

And neither are the War of Independence and the PIRA campaign morally equivalent

The PIRA knew they had no hope whatsoever of winning - they knew this early, and yet they kept going for 28 years

Again I ask for exact statistics about civilian murders in the War of Independence - how many, when, where, and the views of historians of them

The PIRA murdered 644 civilians over 28 years as well as over a thousand others and did so right up to the end in a campaign they never had a hope of winning and which did nothing except inflict societal devastation

When I ask what was it for, the answer can only be nothing

And Warrenpoint and Teebane and Deal and the many boob trap car bombs on RUC officers were just as futile as the civilian murder, killing for the sake of killing

And therefore the moral justification for the campaign is non-existent and those who waged it should live with the knowledge and the shame that they did nothing except bring devastation to their areas and the areas of many others

This is the central denial at the heart of Sinn Fein today, they refuse to accept this

The PIRA were hated by the people of the south who saw right through them and in the north the SDLP consistently polled way above them - the people of the north also saw through them

Slow learners indeed

Stats for the war of independence vary given records weren't as well maintained back then. I think 1400 in total and around 200 civilians. I never argued that war couldn't be justified. I don't agree with your views on a war can be justified by a timeframe. When entering into war the timeframe isn't set. World War II took 6 years, does that make it less justifiable than the WoI? To me that seems a strange way to decide if a war is just.

Edit - actually the number of civilians killed by the Old IRA looks to be significantly higher than I thought.

In County Cork between 1920 and 1923 the IRA shot over 200 civilians of whom over 70 (or 36%) were Protestants: five times the percentage of Protestants in the civilian population.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_(1919–1922)


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 24, 2020, 10:02:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 10:50:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 23, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
Speaking of repeating things. For the 11th time, Sid:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

I would call the IRA bombing campaign a senseless attack on innocent civilian people. How can it be anything else?

My uncle was lucky not to be killed in the canary wharf bombing. How this was supposed to help bring in a united Ireland is beyond me

£150m worth of damage to the British Exchequer.

It brought John Major to the negotiating table.

The Brits didn't really care about the loss of life, that's one thing they have in common with Sid.

What brought the IRA to the negotiating table was it's army of informers. Right to the very top of its Army council it was riddled with informers. But hey they were great people. Out to free Ireland. Look what they delivered. Only for them we'd still be under British occupation....

It Donald Trump levels of nonsense it really is. The people who are laughing is SF's new Army community leaders and those elected representatives. Completely unemployable people with little to no intelligence but about to follow simple instructions from the SF elite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 24, 2020, 10:20:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 24, 2020, 10:02:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 10:50:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 23, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 23, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
Speaking of repeating things. For the 11th time, Sid:

Would you term the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

I would call the IRA bombing campaign a senseless attack on innocent civilian people. How can it be anything else?

My uncle was lucky not to be killed in the canary wharf bombing. How this was supposed to help bring in a united Ireland is beyond me

£150m worth of damage to the British Exchequer.

It brought John Major to the negotiating table.

The Brits didn't really care about the loss of life, that's one thing they have in common with Sid.

What brought the IRA to the negotiating table was it's army of informers. Right to the very top of its Army council it was riddled with informers. But hey they were great people. Out to free Ireland. Look what they delivered. Only for them we'd still be under British occupation....

It Donald Trump levels of nonsense it really is. The people who are laughing is SF's new Army community leaders and those elected representatives. Completely unemployable people with little to no intelligence but about to follow simple instructions from the SF elite.

Infiltration by the Brits destroyed them along with collusion which enabled loyalists to go into almost every nationalist area without too much trouble . I think up here in Derry was about the only place they didn't touch, they were able to kill Fullerton in Buncrana though, no doubt an MI5 operation. Provos killed lynch and MC kinight in waterside in swift retaliation

This kind of stuff really put republicans on back foot
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 10:27:11 AM
Big difference between the 1919-22 IRA and the 1970/05 IRA was informers.
The 1919/21 crew infiltrated Dublin Castle and finished off the Cairo gang.
As Trailer said the Provos were seriously infected with informers right up to the top informer catcher.
As for Narrow water and Kilmichael I have no great problem with either - an elite group of professional soldiers were attacked in the middle of a conflict.
Meanwhile time for Sid and Angelo to do a Brian Stanley and stay off GAAboard for a week.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on December 24, 2020, 10:29:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 11:15:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:13:36 PM
Sid doesn't deal with the truth like most people who share his far right ideology.
The PIRA were far right, mate

Sectarian slaughter and extreme nationalism is inherently far right

You can't sit underneath a picture of Michael Collins and not understand that Collins was the architect of guerrilla warfare attacks on the British which also resulted in civilian deaths.

If that is wrong in the 70's, 80's and 90's then it was also wrong in the 20's and before.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on December 24, 2020, 11:01:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 10:27:11 AM
Big difference between the 1919-22 IRA and the 1970/05 IRA was informers.
The 1919/21 crew infiltrated Dublin Castle and finished off the Cairo gang.
As Trailer said the Provos were seriously infected with informers right up to the top informer catcher.
As for Narrow water and Kilmichael I have no great problem with either - an elite group of professional soldiers were attacked in the middle of a conflict.
Meanwhile time for Sid and Angelo to do a Brian Stanley and stay off GAAboard for a week.
What are your views on the "shoot to kill" policy"?  Always seemed that it was only ever a "war" when it suited the Republican movement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on December 24, 2020, 11:08:15 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 10:27:11 AM
Big difference between the 1919-22 IRA and the 1970/05 IRA was informers.
The 1919/21 crew infiltrated Dublin Castle and finished off the Cairo gang.
As Trailer said the Provos were seriously infected with informers right up to the top informer catcher.
As for Narrow water and Kilmichael I have no great problem with either - an elite group of professional soldiers were attacked in the middle of a conflict.
Meanwhile time for Sid and Angelo to do a Brian Stanley and stay off GAAboard for a week.

You are aware that this is questionable in the bigger picture as the Brits doubled down on their intelligence post Bloody Sunday and if anything their intelligence improved.

There's a lot of similarities between the treaty talks in 1921 and the peace process in 1994.

Both Collins and the IRA leadership in both periods knew they couldn't win militarily and needed something to show for their efforts and cut a deal that didn't deliver the end goal but was a step further.
Collins got/was given the 26 but the 1994 version was only given the possibility of a UI referendum. The last step will be the biggest and IMO the soundings around a UI referendum are a lot more further forward thanks to Brexit but and I will repeat this that Sinn Fein should not be involved in that process unless they are in government in the South.

When the time comes for a UI referendum Sinn Fein will do more harm than good in getting main stream protestant/unionist buy in for it, the drivers for that need to be from the current incumbents in FF/FG but sadly Martin is worse than useless, and Varadkar lacks a little bit of substance. Coveney is probably the most capable at the minute.

As for the effectiveness of informers in the PIRA, they were undoubtedly there but as the Canary Wharf bomb showed they were still able to get big operations off the ground. There's no doubt in my mind and it is well documented that Major was visited by the big Banks based in the City of London and told to sort it out. The back channels were already in operation and came to the forefront after that.
If the provos had been so badly riddled with informers then there's no way that bomb would have been allowed to happen.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on December 24, 2020, 11:51:42 AM
Quote from: michaelg on December 24, 2020, 11:01:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 10:27:11 AM
Big difference between the 1919-22 IRA and the 1970/05 IRA was informers.
The 1919/21 crew infiltrated Dublin Castle and finished off the Cairo gang.
As Trailer said the Provos were seriously infected with informers right up to the top informer catcher.
As for Narrow water and Kilmichael I have no great problem with either - an elite group of professional soldiers were attacked in the middle of a conflict.
Meanwhile time for Sid and Angelo to do a Brian Stanley and stay off GAAboard for a week.
What are your views on the "shoot to kill" policy"?  Always seemed that it was only ever a "war" when it suited the Republican movement.
In my own personal opinion Michael, as grim as it's sounds, and I'm sure if it was one my family members it might change my view, I would have no problem with the shoot to kill policy if the Brits admitted it was a war. But they don't. So you can't have a government killing their own unarmed citizens.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on December 24, 2020, 12:55:16 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 24, 2020, 11:08:15 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 10:27:11 AM
Big difference between the 1919-22 IRA and the 1970/05 IRA was informers.
The 1919/21 crew infiltrated Dublin Castle and finished off the Cairo gang.
As Trailer said the Provos were seriously infected with informers right up to the top informer catcher.
As for Narrow water and Kilmichael I have no great problem with either - an elite group of professional soldiers were attacked in the middle of a conflict.
Meanwhile time for Sid and Angelo to do a Brian Stanley and stay off GAAboard for a week.

You are aware that this is questionable in the bigger picture as the Brits doubled down on their intelligence post Bloody Sunday and if anything their intelligence improved.

There's a lot of similarities between the treaty talks in 1921 and the peace process in 1994.

Both Collins and the IRA leadership in both periods knew they couldn't win militarily and needed something to show for their efforts and cut a deal that didn't deliver the end goal but was a step further.
Collins got/was given the 26 but the 1994 version was only given the possibility of a UI referendum. The last step will be the biggest and IMO the soundings around a UI referendum are a lot more further forward thanks to Brexit but and I will repeat this that Sinn Fein should not be involved in that process unless they are in government in the South.

When the time comes for a UI referendum Sinn Fein will do more harm than good in getting main stream protestant/unionist buy in for it, the drivers for that need to be from the current incumbents in FF/FG but sadly Martin is worse than useless, and Varadkar lacks a little bit of substance. Coveney is probably the most capable at the minute.

As for the effectiveness of informers in the PIRA, they were undoubtedly there but as the Canary Wharf bomb showed they were still able to get big operations off the ground. There's no doubt in my mind and it is well documented that Major was visited by the big Banks based in the City of London and told to sort it out. The back channels were already in operation and came to the forefront after that.
If the provos had been so badly riddled with informers then there's no way that bomb would have been allowed to happen.

The big problem is FF and FG are both partitionist parties. They have created an elite Catholic ruling class in the 26 and neither FF/FG or the DUP/UUP are interested in giving up their ascendancy status in each of the failed states on this island. SF whether you like them or don't, are the only major political party on this island with an appetite for a United Ireland but they are also by far an away now the biggest political party on this island.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on December 24, 2020, 03:05:22 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 24, 2020, 11:51:42 AM
Quote from: michaelg on December 24, 2020, 11:01:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 10:27:11 AM
Big difference between the 1919-22 IRA and the 1970/05 IRA was informers.
The 1919/21 crew infiltrated Dublin Castle and finished off the Cairo gang.
As Trailer said the Provos were seriously infected with informers right up to the top informer catcher.
As for Narrow water and Kilmichael I have no great problem with either - an elite group of professional soldiers were attacked in the middle of a conflict.
Meanwhile time for Sid and Angelo to do a Brian Stanley and stay off GAAboard for a week.
What are your views on the "shoot to kill" policy"?  Always seemed that it was only ever a "war" when it suited the Republican movement.
In my own personal opinion Michael, as grim as it's sounds, and I'm sure if it was one my family members it might change my view, I would have no problem with the shoot to kill policy if the Brits admitted it was a war. But they don't. So you can't have a government killing their own unarmed citizens.
So okay if they were armed / on "active service"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 04:18:56 PM
As the Brits never admitted they were in a war then they should have first called on the 'armed civilians" to drop their weapons and give themselves up.
Shooting to kill unarmed civilians in Derry on bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, New Lodge, poor Mr Tighe, Majella O'Hare, Aidan McAnespie etc etc were simply terrorist murders.

Weren't the big bomb operations like Canary wharf  done by the South Armagh units where informing was highly unlikely?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 04:56:35 PM
See my comment on "armed civilians"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on December 24, 2020, 05:24:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 04:56:35 PM
See my comment on "armed civilians"
I think you have klind of proved my point.  If they thought they were armed combatants "at war", surely thye have to accept the potential consequences.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
But the Brits officially only saw it as criminality not a war.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 24, 2020, 07:02:27 PM
Jesus Mary loo hard to listen to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 24, 2020, 09:53:09 PM
Merry Christmas everyone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on December 24, 2020, 11:26:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
But the Brits officially only saw it as criminality not a war.
I'm talking about from the perspective of the "armed  IRA volunteers".  Live by the sword and all that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 24, 2020, 11:29:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 24, 2020, 12:55:16 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 24, 2020, 11:08:15 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 10:27:11 AM
Big difference between the 1919-22 IRA and the 1970/05 IRA was informers.
The 1919/21 crew infiltrated Dublin Castle and finished off the Cairo gang.
As Trailer said the Provos were seriously infected with informers right up to the top informer catcher.
As for Narrow water and Kilmichael I have no great problem with either - an elite group of professional soldiers were attacked in the middle of a conflict.
Meanwhile time for Sid and Angelo to do a Brian Stanley and stay off GAAboard for a week.

You are aware that this is questionable in the bigger picture as the Brits doubled down on their intelligence post Bloody Sunday and if anything their intelligence improved.

There's a lot of similarities between the treaty talks in 1921 and the peace process in 1994.

Both Collins and the IRA leadership in both periods knew they couldn't win militarily and needed something to show for their efforts and cut a deal that didn't deliver the end goal but was a step further.
Collins got/was given the 26 but the 1994 version was only given the possibility of a UI referendum. The last step will be the biggest and IMO the soundings around a UI referendum are a lot more further forward thanks to Brexit but and I will repeat this that Sinn Fein should not be involved in that process unless they are in government in the South.

When the time comes for a UI referendum Sinn Fein will do more harm than good in getting main stream protestant/unionist buy in for it, the drivers for that need to be from the current incumbents in FF/FG but sadly Martin is worse than useless, and Varadkar lacks a little bit of substance. Coveney is probably the most capable at the minute.

As for the effectiveness of informers in the PIRA, they were undoubtedly there but as the Canary Wharf bomb showed they were still able to get big operations off the ground. There's no doubt in my mind and it is well documented that Major was visited by the big Banks based in the City of London and told to sort it out. The back channels were already in operation and came to the forefront after that.
If the provos had been so badly riddled with informers then there's no way that bomb would have been allowed to happen.

The big problem is FF and FG are both partitionist parties. They have created an elite Catholic ruling class in the 26 and neither FF/FG or the DUP/UUP are interested in giving up their ascendancy status in each of the failed states on this island. SF whether you like them or don't, are the only major political party on this island with an appetite for a United Ireland but they are also by far an away now the biggest political party on this island.
FG/FF subscribe to the Good Friday Agreement

So do Sinn Fein

So if FG/FF are partitionist in your book, then so must Sinn Fein be

Again, not me saying it, you're saying it

My belief is that Sinn Fein are indeed a united Ireland party first and foremost

And though I would like to see a united Ireland, it would be around about bottom of my list of priorities in terms of what I want to see in Irish politics

Bread and butter issues are infinitely more important than irredentism and nationalism

Any hypothetical united Ireland, when it comes, the abolition of the Irish tricolour and Amhran na bhFiann as the national anthem are a starting point


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on December 24, 2020, 11:35:02 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 24, 2020, 03:05:22 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 24, 2020, 11:51:42 AM
Quote from: michaelg on December 24, 2020, 11:01:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 24, 2020, 10:27:11 AM
Big difference between the 1919-22 IRA and the 1970/05 IRA was informers.
The 1919/21 crew infiltrated Dublin Castle and finished off the Cairo gang.
As Trailer said the Provos were seriously infected with informers right up to the top informer catcher.
As for Narrow water and Kilmichael I have no great problem with either - an elite group of professional soldiers were attacked in the middle of a conflict.
Meanwhile time for Sid and Angelo to do a Brian Stanley and stay off GAAboard for a week.
What are your views on the "shoot to kill" policy"?  Always seemed that it was only ever a "war" when it suited the Republican movement.
In my own personal opinion Michael, as grim as it's sounds, and I'm sure if it was one my family members it might change my view, I would have no problem with the shoot to kill policy if the Brits admitted it was a war. But they don't. So you can't have a government killing their own unarmed citizens.
So okay if they were armed / on "active service"?
Loughgall and Gibraltar were fine by the rules the PIRA played according to

To me they were flat out murder, but the PIRA chose their rules of engagement, so they can hardly complain
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2020, 12:04:28 AM
I don't think any Volunteer, in any regime will 'complain' about the position and consequences they could find themselves in, otherwise they wouldn't be taking up arms..

The dirty war here in the north was not done by the rules, shoot to kill went both ways.

Time for reconciliation and truth... only way out of this and will allow people to move on, it won't bring people back but too many people seek closure, once that's done people can grieve and eventually make things right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on December 25, 2020, 12:18:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2020, 12:04:28 AM
I don't think any Volunteer, in any regime will 'complain' about the position and consequences they could find themselves in, otherwise they wouldn't be taking up arms..

The dirty war here in the north was not done by the rules, shoot to kill went both ways.

Time for reconciliation and truth... only way out of this and will allow people to move on, it won't bring people back but too many people seek closure, once that's done people can grieve and eventually make things right.
Fair enough. Many of those who supported the volunteers, however, seem to take a different view. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2020, 12:32:43 AM
Quote from: michaelg on December 25, 2020, 12:18:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2020, 12:04:28 AM
I don't think any Volunteer, in any regime will 'complain' about the position and consequences they could find themselves in, otherwise they wouldn't be taking up arms..

The dirty war here in the north was not done by the rules, shoot to kill went both ways.

Time for reconciliation and truth... only way out of this and will allow people to move on, it won't bring people back but too many people seek closure, once that's done people can grieve and eventually make things right.
Fair enough. Many of those who supported the volunteers, however, seem to take a different view.

They took 'military' funerals and no doubt within their own community (rightly or wrongly) will have accepted their fate.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 10:59:22 PM
Christine O'Mahony left Sinn Fein recently over one of Brian Stanley's tweets

Now she's receiving this on Twitter

Lovely stuff, eh

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqrd3itXAAIqb7F?format=jpg&name=900x900)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqrd3iuWMAcxGAh?format=jpg&name=900x900)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqrd3izXcAEz3xj?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 01, 2021, 11:01:47 PM
Sid, you're not really that stupid are you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 11:02:28 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 01, 2021, 11:01:47 PM
Sid, you're not really that stupid are you?
I'm sorry?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 01, 2021, 11:42:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 01, 2021, 11:01:47 PM
Sid, you're not really that stupid are you?
Lol have you read some of his stuff?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on January 02, 2021, 12:22:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 01, 2021, 11:42:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 01, 2021, 11:01:47 PM
Sid, you're not really that stupid are you?
Lol have you read some of his stuff?
The reaction here yet again proves my points

Anybody who doesn't subscribe to the Shinner narrative is automatically "stupid"

Any person with an ounce of human decency would condemn the vile comments aimed at Christine O'Mahony, who had the temerity to leave the party

Shinners' response is to circle the wagons

It proves the bullying problem that exists within the party and its support
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on January 02, 2021, 12:02:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 02, 2021, 12:22:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 01, 2021, 11:42:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 01, 2021, 11:01:47 PM
Sid, you're not really that stupid are you?
Lol have you read some of his stuff?
The reaction here yet again proves my points

Anybody who doesn't subscribe to the Shinner narrative is automatically "stupid"

Any person with an ounce of human decency would condemn the vile comments aimed at Christine O'Mahony, who had the temerity to leave the party

Shinners' response is to circle the wagons

It proves the bullying problem that exists within the party and its support

Ah the usual Sid narrative.

Anyone who doesn't agree with his contradictory brand of lunacy is a shinnerbot.

You are being labelled as stupid because you are and because of the nonsensical rubbish you post mired in double and treble contradictions.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 02, 2021, 12:24:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 11:02:28 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 01, 2021, 11:01:47 PM
Sid, you're not really that stupid are you?
I'm sorry?
Unverifiable comments made anonymously online. On an app primarily used by teenage girls. Against someone who quite publicly left SF and did not hesitate to publicise them (ten minutes after she joined said app). I just wouldn't jump to any conclusions at this juncture.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on January 02, 2021, 12:45:24 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 02, 2021, 12:24:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 11:02:28 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 01, 2021, 11:01:47 PM
Sid, you're not really that stupid are you?
I'm sorry?
Unverifiable comments made anonymously online. On an app primarily used by teenage girls. Against someone who quite publicly left SF and did not hesitate to publicise them (ten minutes after she joined said app). I just wouldn't jump to any conclusions at this juncture.
Again, this just proves my point

Your first reaction is to frame SF as the victim rather than the person who received the comments, and to frame a weasel worded justification for why she would have received them

This reaction proves there is a problem with the culture in SF


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on January 02, 2021, 12:48:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 02, 2021, 12:02:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 02, 2021, 12:22:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 01, 2021, 11:42:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 01, 2021, 11:01:47 PM
Sid, you're not really that stupid are you?
Lol have you read some of his stuff?
The reaction here yet again proves my points

Anybody who doesn't subscribe to the Shinner narrative is automatically "stupid"

Any person with an ounce of human decency would condemn the vile comments aimed at Christine O'Mahony, who had the temerity to leave the party

Shinners' response is to circle the wagons

It proves the bullying problem that exists within the party and its support

Ah the usual Sid narrative.

Anyone who doesn't agree with his contradictory brand of lunacy is a shinnerbot.

You are being labelled as stupid because you are and because of the nonsensical rubbish you post mired in double and treble contradictions.

Again, nothing but abuse

Every time you post you prove SF's support has a bullying culture

It's great for me that you keep making these posts, because you're demonstrating my point in such a comprehensive and obvious way
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 02, 2021, 01:04:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 02, 2021, 12:45:24 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 02, 2021, 12:24:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 11:02:28 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 01, 2021, 11:01:47 PM
Sid, you're not really that stupid are you?
I'm sorry?
Unverifiable comments made anonymously online. On an app primarily used by teenage girls. Against someone who quite publicly left SF and did not hesitate to publicise them (ten minutes after she joined said app). I just wouldn't jump to any conclusions at this juncture.
Again, this just proves my point

Your first reaction is to frame SF as the victim rather than the person who received the comments, and to frame a weasel worded justification for why she would have received them

This reaction proves there is a problem with the culture in SF
I'm not in SF. You just have an unhealthy obsession.
She's going to the guards so I'll reserve judgement until they apprehend the culprit. Maybe you should too until you actually know who it is behind the threats
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on January 02, 2021, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2020, 12:32:43 AM
Quote from: michaelg on December 25, 2020, 12:18:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2020, 12:04:28 AM
I don't think any Volunteer, in any regime will 'complain' about the position and consequences they could find themselves in, otherwise they wouldn't be taking up arms..

The dirty war here in the north was not done by the rules, shoot to kill went both ways.

Time for reconciliation and truth... only way out of this and will allow people to move on, it won't bring people back but too many people seek closure, once that's done people can grieve and eventually make things right.
Fair enough. Many of those who supported the volunteers, however, seem to take a different view.

They took 'military' funerals and no doubt within their own community (rightly or wrongly) will have accepted their fate.
Shoot to kills went both ways, a volunteer signed up on oath for his/her fate. but only one side gets treated as members of an army. And there's a night and day difference between  the murky depths of state sanctioned tortures, interrogations,collaborated shoot to kills of suspects,  selective assassinations of civilians and civil/legal rights workers, pub massacres, show-band massacres, dozens of sectarian terror murders, murders of civilians on the streets, all state sanctioned, managed afterwards and sealed up for ever,   than the ambush at Warrenpoint.

A BTW,  I was trying to remember the name of one young lad,  aged 16 or 17, not the full shilling -  a simple nice lad, picked up on the streets by the police in the late 1970's or early 80's, interrogated at length,  maybe at Castlereagh or just a police station in Belfast, found hanged in the cell the next morning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 26, 2021, 08:45:28 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55802136 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55802136)

The rules don't apply to SF or the IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 10:15:11 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 02, 2021, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2020, 12:32:43 AM
Quote from: michaelg on December 25, 2020, 12:18:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2020, 12:04:28 AM
I don't think any Volunteer, in any regime will 'complain' about the position and consequences they could find themselves in, otherwise they wouldn't be taking up arms..

The dirty war here in the north was not done by the rules, shoot to kill went both ways.

Time for reconciliation and truth... only way out of this and will allow people to move on, it won't bring people back but too many people seek closure, once that's done people can grieve and eventually make things right.
Fair enough. Many of those who supported the volunteers, however, seem to take a different view.

They took 'military' funerals and no doubt within their own community (rightly or wrongly) will have accepted their fate.
Shoot to kills went both ways, a volunteer signed up on oath for his/her fate. but only one side gets treated as members of an army. And there's a night and day difference between  the murky depths of state sanctioned tortures, interrogations,collaborated shoot to kills of suspects,  selective assassinations of civilians and civil/legal rights workers, pub massacres, show-band massacres, dozens of sectarian terror murders, murders of civilians on the streets, all state sanctioned, managed afterwards and sealed up for ever,   than the ambush at Warrenpoint.

A BTW,  I was trying to remember the name of one young lad,  aged 16 or 17, not the full shilling -  a simple nice lad, picked up on the streets by the police in the late 1970's or early 80's, interrogated at length,  maybe at Castlereagh or just a police station in Belfast, found hanged in the cell the next morning.

You'll probably also be aware of the case of Michael Lynagh down south too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 10:28:43 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2021, 08:45:28 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55802136 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55802136)

The rules don't apply to SF or the IRA.

Prominent SF man in Derry and council employee carrying coffin-absolute disgrace, hard on the family and tbh this man was a respected volunteer in Derry injured when George and Pop were killed by SAS, in normal times he would have deserved big send off, but people are pissed off with this, missed wake(there was none) and burial of friend myself last week. To make matters worse this was a covid case
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 26, 2021, 11:38:17 AM
Shinners doing themselves no favours once again
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 11:44:43 AM
The usual suspects all lined up here.

A pity they don't uphold their standards elsewhere
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah Monga played a big part in it. Works on DCSDC as "Bonfire Officer" lol(30k-mmm how did he get that with no qualifications) ex-vol and one of Derrys main SF members
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah Monga played a big part in it. Works on DCSDC as "Bonfire Officer" lol(30k-mmm how did he get that with no qualifications) ex-vol and one of Derrys main SF members
Nah, I asked did SF organise it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah Monga played a big part in it. Works on DCSDC as "Bonfire Officer" lol(30k-mmm how did he get that with no qualifications) ex-vol and one of Derrys main SF members
Nah, I asked did SF organise it.

Yeah they encouraged attendance on Twitter, pretty clear cut, arrogance whilst the rest of us have to abide by different rules, as I said an honourable cause and man but bad look for everyone else
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah Monga played a big part in it. Works on DCSDC as "Bonfire Officer" lol(30k-mmm how did he get that with no qualifications) ex-vol and one of Derrys main SF members
Nah, I asked did SF organise it.

Yeah they encouraged attendance on Twitter, pretty clear cut, arrogance whilst the rest of us have to abide by different rules, as I said an honourable cause and man but bad look for everyone else

And the mask slips further.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah Monga played a big part in it. Works on DCSDC as "Bonfire Officer" lol(30k-mmm how did he get that with no qualifications) ex-vol and one of Derrys main SF members
Nah, I asked did SF organise it.

Yeah they encouraged attendance on Twitter, pretty clear cut, arrogance whilst the rest of us have to abide by different rules, as I said an honourable cause and man but bad look for everyone else

And the mask slips further.

What are you even talking about sur, stop spouting catch phrases for the craic
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 02:19:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 02:18:22 PM


What are you even talking about sur, stop spouting catch phrases for the craic

Just point out the absurdity of your agenda.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 02:21:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah
(https://static.thenounproject.com/png/1195138-200.png)
                    A lie
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 03:07:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 02:21:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah
(https://static.thenounproject.com/png/1195138-200.png)
                    A lie

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/01/25/news/dup-demands-police-answers-after-republican-funeral-scenes-in-derry-2198290/

Oops-Sean McMonagle at the front there, check his tweets too if they aren't already deleted.

Take off the blinkers lads

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 26, 2021, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 26, 2021, 11:38:17 AM
Shinners doing themselves no favours once again
To be fair Leo, they have been very vocal in their condemnation of the event, and have said that prosecutions should follow. Like most parties the Shinners can not control all the membership.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 03:31:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 03:07:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 02:21:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah
(https://static.thenounproject.com/png/1195138-200.png)
                    A lie

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/01/25/news/dup-demands-police-answers-after-republican-funeral-scenes-in-derry-2198290/

Oops-Sean McMonagle at the front there, check his tweets too if they aren't already deleted.

Take off the blinkers lads

So if one unelected SF member helped the family then that means SF took on the organisation of the whole funeral? When even the likes of Gregory Campbell and Gary Middleton aren't suggesting that SF organised it, then maybe you should cop the fcuk on to yourself and stop expecting to get away with posting blatant, outright lies.

Remember when you said someone with a pro-SF agenda shouldn't be taken seriously because their judgement is impaired? Well that is true for those with an anti-SF agenda too, you know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 03:31:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 03:07:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 02:21:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah
(https://static.thenounproject.com/png/1195138-200.png)
                    A lie

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/01/25/news/dup-demands-police-answers-after-republican-funeral-scenes-in-derry-2198290/

Oops-Sean McMonagle at the front there, check his tweets too if they aren't already deleted.

Take off the blinkers lads

So if one SF unelected SF member helped the family then that means SF took on the organisation of the whole funeral? When even the likes of Gregory Campbell and Gary Middleton aren't suggesting that SF organised it, then maybe you should cop the fcuk on to yourself and stop expecting to get away with posting blatant, outright lies.

Remember when you said someone with a pro-SF agenda shouldn't be taken seriously because their judgement is impaired? Well that is true for those with an anti-SF agenda too, you know.

if you believe any of that well there is no talking to you, this was carefully choreographed to avoid any resemblance to the Storey affair, Kelly himself said 3 elected councillors attended. As I said this will bite them in the arse big time, that's the word on the street here. I could have chose to ignore this to make people less uncomfortable about having to address it, but sorry canny do. This is so clear cut that only those who deny it could be charged with impaired judgement.

When good men do nothing......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 03:31:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 03:07:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 02:21:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah
(https://static.thenounproject.com/png/1195138-200.png)
                    A lie

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/01/25/news/dup-demands-police-answers-after-republican-funeral-scenes-in-derry-2198290/

Oops-Sean McMonagle at the front there, check his tweets too if they aren't already deleted.

Take off the blinkers lads

So if one SF unelected SF member helped the family then that means SF took on the organisation of the whole funeral? When even the likes of Gregory Campbell and Gary Middleton aren't suggesting that SF organised it, then maybe you should cop the fcuk on to yourself and stop expecting to get away with posting blatant, outright lies.

Remember when you said someone with a pro-SF agenda shouldn't be taken seriously because their judgement is impaired? Well that is true for those with an anti-SF agenda too, you know.

if you believe any of that well there is no talking to you, this was carefully choreographed to avoid any resemblance to the Storey affair, Kelly himself said 3 elected councillors attended. As I said this will bite them in the arse big time, that's the word on the street here. I could have chose to ignore this to make people less uncomfortable about having to address it, but sorry canny do. This is so clear cut that only those who deny it could be charged with impaired judgement.

So to paraphrase your argument: that fact that there is literally no evidence that SF organised the funeral is absolute proof that they actually did organise it?

Again, go away an cop the fcuk on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 03:57:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 03:31:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 03:07:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 02:21:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Did SF organise the funeral?

Yeah
(https://static.thenounproject.com/png/1195138-200.png)
                    A lie

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/01/25/news/dup-demands-police-answers-after-republican-funeral-scenes-in-derry-2198290/

Oops-Sean McMonagle at the front there, check his tweets too if they aren't already deleted.

Take off the blinkers lads

So if one SF unelected SF member helped the family then that means SF took on the organisation of the whole funeral? When even the likes of Gregory Campbell and Gary Middleton aren't suggesting that SF organised it, then maybe you should cop the fcuk on to yourself and stop expecting to get away with posting blatant, outright lies.

Remember when you said someone with a pro-SF agenda shouldn't be taken seriously because their judgement is impaired? Well that is true for those with an anti-SF agenda too, you know.

if you believe any of that well there is no talking to you, this was carefully choreographed to avoid any resemblance to the Storey affair, Kelly himself said 3 elected councillors attended. As I said this will bite them in the arse big time, that's the word on the street here. I could have chose to ignore this to make people less uncomfortable about having to address it, but sorry canny do. This is so clear cut that only those who deny it could be charged with impaired judgement.

So to paraphrase your argument: that fact that there is literally no evidence that SF organised the funeral is absolute proof that they actually did organise it?

Again, go away an cop the fcuk on.

lol It's actually comical.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 04:01:50 PM
Loads of boyish responses-boom!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 04:48:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 04:01:50 PM
Loads of boyish responses-boom!

Sometimes less is more, Fear.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:37:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 04:48:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 04:01:50 PM
Loads of boyish responses-boom!

Sometimes less is more, Fear.

Ba ba . How's that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 05:59:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:37:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 04:48:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 04:01:50 PM
Loads of boyish responses-boom!

Sometimes less is more, Fear.

Ba ba . How's that

Hee-haw prob more appropriate for ya.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:01:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

No offence to you lad but as far as I'm aware you aren't from Derry City. I am . SF helped organise the whole thing, Monga and GT organised it for family. Ive nothing against this normally as peggy was good stock but it's ridiculous for an outsider like you to tell me what I know to be happening in my own town
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:12:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:01:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

No offence to you lad but as far as I'm aware you aren't from Derry City. I am . SF helped organise the whole thing, Monga and GT organised it for family. Ive nothing against this normally as peggy was good stock but it's ridiculous for an outsider like you to tell me what I know to be happening in my own town

I don't give a toss where you are from. There have been a succession of unionist and nationalist politicians from Derry lining up to have a pop at SF over this but not one of them is even implying that SF organised the funeral. You are on a solo run. You even had the utter shamelessness to suggest that it's the lack of evidence that it was organised by SF that actually proves they did organise it. Beyond that you have only named two unelected SF members who the family thanked for helping them. Sorry, but that doesn't constitute SF having organised the funeral.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 07:28:30 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

I wasn't there. If you say so then I am not in position to contradict you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:33:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 07:28:30 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

I wasn't there. If you say so then I am not in position to contradict you.

He wasn't there either nor was Gerry Kelly . Takes his evidence from BBC apparently
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.

Another lie. Martina Anderson was in Stormont. Her own twitter confirms this. The rumour started when a few loyalist trolls on twitter started suggesting that a woman with a mask and scarf (with brown hair ffs) was Martina. Of course, you take this rumour and present it as fact. Caught out lying through your teeth again. I thought you were the man in the know about everything happening in Derry???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 07:38:26 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:12:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:01:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

No offence to you lad but as far as I'm aware you aren't from Derry City. I am . SF helped organise the whole thing, Monga and GT organised it for family. Ive nothing against this normally as peggy was good stock but it's ridiculous for an outsider like you to tell me what I know to be happening in my own town

I don't give a toss where you are from. There have been a succession of unionist and nationalist politicians from Derry lining up to have a pop at SF over this but not one of them is even implying that SF organised the funeral. You are on a solo run. You even had the utter shamelessness to suggest that it's the lack of evidence that it was organised by SF that actually proves they did organise it. Beyond that you have only named two unelected SF members who the family thanked for helping them. Sorry, but that doesn't constitute SF having organised the funeral.

You seem to be making out that the fact SF didn't organise it means it's all ok and it's just a few individuals who did a solo run!

Let's be honest every man and his dog will be calling Sinn Fein out over this and rightly so. Sinn Fein fucked up the Bobby Storey funeral and should have been on notice that the next big funeral should have been to the letter within the guidelines.

You think there was nobody in Sinn Fein involved in that funeral?? Just because it wasn't in an official capacity means f**k all to the average person everybody knows the craic. Maybe SF should have organised it and done it right this way they're getting it in the neck anyway!!

Had the lies not been so brazen the last time maybe they would have had a better chance of getting the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:39:06 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:33:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 07:28:30 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

I wasn't there. If you say so then I am not in position to contradict you.

He wasn't there either nor was Gerry Kelly . Takes his evidence from BBC apparently

And you take yours from loyalist twitter trolls, if your Martina Anderson nonsense is anything to go by.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.

Another lie. Martina Anderson was in Stormont. Her own twitter confirms this. The rumour started when a few loyalist trolls on twitter started suggesting that a woman with a mask and scarf (with brown hair ffs) was Martina. Of course, you take this rumour and present it as fact. Caught out lying through your teeth again. I thought you were the man in the know about everything happening in Derry???

She was there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.

Another lie. Martina Anderson was in Stormont. Her own twitter confirms this. The rumour started when a few loyalist trolls on twitter started suggesting that a woman with a mask and scarf (with brown hair ffs) was Martina. Of course, you take this rumour and present it as fact. Caught out lying through your teeth again. I thought you were the man in the know about everything happening in Derry???

She was there.

Prove it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.

Another lie. Martina Anderson was in Stormont. Her own twitter confirms this. The rumour started when a few loyalist trolls on twitter started suggesting that a woman with a mask and scarf (with brown hair ffs) was Martina. Of course, you take this rumour and present it as fact. Caught out lying through your teeth again. I thought you were the man in the know about everything happening in Derry???

She was there.

Prove it.

BBC said  so. Check mate
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:13:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.

Another lie. Martina Anderson was in Stormont. Her own twitter confirms this. The rumour started when a few loyalist trolls on twitter started suggesting that a woman with a mask and scarf (with brown hair ffs) was Martina. Of course, you take this rumour and present it as fact. Caught out lying through your teeth again. I thought you were the man in the know about everything happening in Derry???

She was there.

Prove it.

BBC said  so. Check mate

And where did BBC say so?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:16:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 07:38:26 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:12:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:01:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

No offence to you lad but as far as I'm aware you aren't from Derry City. I am . SF helped organise the whole thing, Monga and GT organised it for family. Ive nothing against this normally as peggy was good stock but it's ridiculous for an outsider like you to tell me what I know to be happening in my own town

I don't give a toss where you are from. There have been a succession of unionist and nationalist politicians from Derry lining up to have a pop at SF over this but not one of them is even implying that SF organised the funeral. You are on a solo run. You even had the utter shamelessness to suggest that it's the lack of evidence that it was organised by SF that actually proves they did organise it. Beyond that you have only named two unelected SF members who the family thanked for helping them. Sorry, but that doesn't constitute SF having organised the funeral.

You seem to be making out that the fact SF didn't organise it means it's all ok and it's just a few individuals who did a solo run!

Let's be honest every man and his dog will be calling Sinn Fein out over this and rightly so. Sinn Fein fucked up the Bobby Storey funeral and should have been on notice that the next big funeral should have been to the letter within the guidelines.

You think there was nobody in Sinn Fein involved in that funeral?? Just because it wasn't in an official capacity means f**k all to the average person everybody knows the craic. Maybe SF should have organised it and done it right this way they're getting it in the neck anyway!!

Had the lies not been so brazen the last time maybe they would have had a better chance of getting the benefit of the doubt.

Nonsense, screen. Beyond this forum, I've yet to see anyone suggest SF organised this funeral. So to suggest that the lack of evidence that they organised it, somehow means they definitely organised it, is just so desperate it's laughable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 08:28:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:13:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.

Another lie. Martina Anderson was in Stormont. Her own twitter confirms this. The rumour started when a few loyalist trolls on twitter started suggesting that a woman with a mask and scarf (with brown hair ffs) was Martina. Of course, you take this rumour and present it as fact. Caught out lying through your teeth again. I thought you were the man in the know about everything happening in Derry???

She was there.

Prove it.

BBC said  so. Check mate

And where did BBC say so?

Ach sure didn't Nolan and Crawley report it. What was Martinas defence. The eejit that she is took an absolutely embarrassingly ridiculous photo of some random Ice packed road to show she was driving to Belfast. I tell you that got some laugh down these parts today.
And my point on the BBC is mainly this, if you are going to say the 2 BBC boys are wrong why would anybody with a titter of wit believe your BBC sourced story that 3 councillors attended from roadside

For god sake wise up. She was at the wake, everyone knows the whole lot of them were there, snap out of it should be your new name.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 08:28:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:13:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.

Another lie. Martina Anderson was in Stormont. Her own twitter confirms this. The rumour started when a few loyalist trolls on twitter started suggesting that a woman with a mask and scarf (with brown hair ffs) was Martina. Of course, you take this rumour and present it as fact. Caught out lying through your teeth again. I thought you were the man in the know about everything happening in Derry???

She was there.

Prove it.

BBC said  so. Check mate

And where did BBC say so?

Ach sure didn't Nolan and Crawley report it. What was Martinas defence. The eejit that she is took an absolutely embarrassingly ridiculous photo of some random Ice packed road to show she was driving to Belfast. I tell you that got some laugh down these parts today.
And my point on the BBC is mainly this, if you are going to say the 2 BBC boys are wrong why would anybody with a titter of wit believe your BBC sourced story that 3 councillors attended from roadside

For god sake wise up. She was at the wake, everyone knows the whole lot of them were there, snap out of it should be your new name.

You said she was at the funeral. I asked you for proof and you said it was reported on the BBC.

Asked for proof it was on the BBC, you reference William Crawley asking Gerry Kelly if she was there on rradio this morning.

If you listened to the interview, you'd have heard Kelly state that he saw her in Stormont.

That's a far cry from the BBC stating she was at the funeral, wouldn't you say?

Bit inconvenient that despite your claims that Martina Anderson was at the funeral, she doesn't appear in one single photo or video clip.

You've been caught out lying again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 08:44:31 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 08:28:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:13:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.

Another lie. Martina Anderson was in Stormont. Her own twitter confirms this. The rumour started when a few loyalist trolls on twitter started suggesting that a woman with a mask and scarf (with brown hair ffs) was Martina. Of course, you take this rumour and present it as fact. Caught out lying through your teeth again. I thought you were the man in the know about everything happening in Derry???

She was there.

Prove it.

BBC said  so. Check mate

And where did BBC say so?

Ach sure didn't Nolan and Crawley report it. What was Martinas defence. The eejit that she is took an absolutely embarrassingly ridiculous photo of some random Ice packed road to show she was driving to Belfast. I tell you that got some laugh down these parts today.
And my point on the BBC is mainly this, if you are going to say the 2 BBC boys are wrong why would anybody with a titter of wit believe your BBC sourced story that 3 councillors attended from roadside

For god sake wise up. She was at the wake, everyone knows the whole lot of them were there, snap out of it should be your new name.

You said she was at the funeral. I asked you for proof and you said it was reported on the BBC.

Asked for proof it was on the BBC, you reference William Crawley asking Gerry Kelly if she was there on rradio this morning.

If you listened to the interview, you'd have heard Kelly state that he saw her in Stormont.

That's a far cry from the BBC stating she was at the funeral, wouldn't you say?

Bit inconvenient that despite your claims that Martina Anderson was at the funeral, she doesn't appear in one single photo or video clip.

You've been caught out lying again.

Sorry lad. It's over,you can't actually grasp it. It's called irony.Oíche mhaith
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:46:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 08:44:31 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 08:28:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 08:13:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2021, 04:32:55 PM
The only thing I can see from SF in an official capacity is an online tribute.

Far too cute for anything else

Yes, General Lee. You see (as 'Fear Bun na Sceilpe' has already explained to us all) it's the total lack of any evidence that SF organised the funeral which stands as irrefutable proof that they in fact did organise it. And you can take that as gospel, because Fear Bun na Sceilpe would in NO WAY allow the enormous f@#king chip on his shoulder about SF to impair his ability to make an impartial analysis of this story. No way Jose. Nuh uh.

I'll bet you £20 there were two dozen SF councillors and the like at it.

Only three known to have been (along the roadside and not in the cortege). No evidence of two dozen. Just as there is no evidence that SF organised the funeral. Sticking to the established facts seems a bit much to ask for some.

One of them was Martina Anderson who is flat to the mat of social media telling us to stay safe , wash hands blah blah blah. Peggy actually died of covid FFS.

Another lie. Martina Anderson was in Stormont. Her own twitter confirms this. The rumour started when a few loyalist trolls on twitter started suggesting that a woman with a mask and scarf (with brown hair ffs) was Martina. Of course, you take this rumour and present it as fact. Caught out lying through your teeth again. I thought you were the man in the know about everything happening in Derry???

She was there.

Prove it.

BBC said  so. Check mate

And where did BBC say so?

Ach sure didn't Nolan and Crawley report it. What was Martinas defence. The eejit that she is took an absolutely embarrassingly ridiculous photo of some random Ice packed road to show she was driving to Belfast. I tell you that got some laugh down these parts today.
And my point on the BBC is mainly this, if you are going to say the 2 BBC boys are wrong why would anybody with a titter of wit believe your BBC sourced story that 3 councillors attended from roadside

For god sake wise up. She was at the wake, everyone knows the whole lot of them were there, snap out of it should be your new name.

You said she was at the funeral. I asked you for proof and you said it was reported on the BBC.

Asked for proof it was on the BBC, you reference William Crawley asking Gerry Kelly if she was there on rradio this morning.

If you listened to the interview, you'd have heard Kelly state that he saw her in Stormont.

That's a far cry from the BBC stating she was at the funeral, wouldn't you say?

Bit inconvenient that despite your claims that Martina Anderson was at the funeral, she doesn't appear in one single photo or video clip.

You've been caught out lying again.

Sorry lad. It's over,you can't actually grasp it. It's called irony.Oíche mhaith

Liar.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
Obviously you don't move in too many different circles Snapchap plenty of people online and I've talked too are pissed off about another shambles of a Republican funeral... whether Sinn Fein organised it or not they are the Republican Party and they are getting the blame for flouting the rules again... while you may protest it wasn't "officially" organised by SF matters little to the ordinary Joe bloggs.

It's another shambles like the Storey funeral!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:23:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
Obviously you don't move in too many different circles Snapchap plenty of people online and I've talked too are pissed off about another shambles of a Republican funeral... whether Sinn Fein organised it or not they are the Republican Party and they are getting the blame for flouting the rules again... while you may protest it wasn't "officially" organised by SF matters little to the ordinary Joe bloggs.

It's another shambles like the Storey funeral!!

More absolute desperation. SF are the largest republican party but that doesn't mean they can be scapegoated for whatever you feel like where the republican community are concerned. If they had nothing to do with the organisation of this funeral, then they cannot be held responsible for it. And there is precisely no evidence, or even allegation, that they organised it. Nods and winks and the "you're not from Derry", or "the "you don't move in many circles" lines, sadly for yourself and that other clown, don't constitute proof of what you alledge.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:23:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
Obviously you don't move in too many different circles Snapchap plenty of people online and I've talked too are pissed off about another shambles of a Republican funeral... whether Sinn Fein organised it or not they are the Republican Party and they are getting the blame for flouting the rules again... while you may protest it wasn't "officially" organised by SF matters little to the ordinary Joe bloggs.

It's another shambles like the Storey funeral!!

More absolute desperation. SF are the largest republican party but that doesn't mean they can be scapegoated for whatever you feel like where the republican community are concerned. If they had nothing to do with the organisation of this funeral, then they cannot be held responsible for it. And there is precisely no evidence, or even allegation, that they organised it. Nods and winks and the "you're not from Derry", or "the "you don't move in many circles" lines, sadly for yourself and that other clown, don't constitute proof of what you alledge.

Tut tut
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:23:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
Obviously you don't move in too many different circles Snapchap plenty of people online and I've talked too are pissed off about another shambles of a Republican funeral... whether Sinn Fein organised it or not they are the Republican Party and they are getting the blame for flouting the rules again... while you may protest it wasn't "officially" organised by SF matters little to the ordinary Joe bloggs.

It's another shambles like the Storey funeral!!

More absolute desperation. SF are the largest republican party but that doesn't mean they can be scapegoated for whatever you feel like where the republican community are concerned. If they had nothing to do with the organisation of this funeral, then they cannot be held responsible for it. And there is precisely no evidence, or even allegation, that they organised it. Nods and winks and the "you're not from Derry", or "the "you don't move in many circles" lines, sadly for yourself and that other clown, don't constitute proof of what you alledge.

Tut tut

Ah hello again. Tell me, did you ever find a link the that BBC report about Martina Andsrson being at the funeral? You know, the report you claimed exists? No? Not much of a "check mate" after all then? More like another case of you telling lies and hoping not to be called out on it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 11:00:26 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:23:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
Obviously you don't move in too many different circles Snapchap plenty of people online and I've talked too are pissed off about another shambles of a Republican funeral... whether Sinn Fein organised it or not they are the Republican Party and they are getting the blame for flouting the rules again... while you may protest it wasn't "officially" organised by SF matters little to the ordinary Joe bloggs.

It's another shambles like the Storey funeral!!

More absolute desperation. SF are the largest republican party but that doesn't mean they can be scapegoated for whatever you feel like where the republican community are concerned. If they had nothing to do with the organisation of this funeral, then they cannot be held responsible for it. And there is precisely no evidence, or even allegation, that they organised it. Nods and winks and the "you're not from Derry", or "the "you don't move in many circles" lines, sadly for yourself and that other clown, don't constitute proof of what you alledge.

Tut tut

Ah hello again. Tell me, did you ever find a link the that BBC report about Martina Andsrson being at the funeral? You know, the report you claimed exists? No? Not much of a "check mate" after all then? More like another case of you telling lies and hoping not to be called out on it?

personal insults a chara
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 11:12:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 11:00:26 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2021, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:23:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
Obviously you don't move in too many different circles Snapchap plenty of people online and I've talked too are pissed off about another shambles of a Republican funeral... whether Sinn Fein organised it or not they are the Republican Party and they are getting the blame for flouting the rules again... while you may protest it wasn't "officially" organised by SF matters little to the ordinary Joe bloggs.

It's another shambles like the Storey funeral!!

More absolute desperation. SF are the largest republican party but that doesn't mean they can be scapegoated for whatever you feel like where the republican community are concerned. If they had nothing to do with the organisation of this funeral, then they cannot be held responsible for it. And there is precisely no evidence, or even allegation, that they organised it. Nods and winks and the "you're not from Derry", or "the "you don't move in many circles" lines, sadly for yourself and that other clown, don't constitute proof of what you alledge.

Tut tut

Ah hello again. Tell me, did you ever find a link the that BBC report about Martina Andsrson being at the funeral? You know, the report you claimed exists? No? Not much of a "check mate" after all then? More like another case of you telling lies and hoping not to be called out on it?

personal insults a chara
An now you've doled out a few in your time. Besides, if your morals permit you to use a families grief to make up lies for political point scoring, then bring called a clown is nothing, really.

Post up that bbc report when you find it, will you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:23:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
Obviously you don't move in too many different circles Snapchap plenty of people online and I've talked too are pissed off about another shambles of a Republican funeral... whether Sinn Fein organised it or not they are the Republican Party and they are getting the blame for flouting the rules again... while you may protest it wasn't "officially" organised by SF matters little to the ordinary Joe bloggs.

It's another shambles like the Storey funeral!!

More absolute desperation. SF are the largest republican party but that doesn't mean they can be scapegoated for whatever you feel like where the republican community are concerned. If they had nothing to do with the organisation of this funeral, then they cannot be held responsible for it. And there is precisely no evidence, or even allegation, that they organised it. Nods and winks and the "you're not from Derry", or "the "you don't move in many circles" lines, sadly for yourself and that other clown, don't constitute proof of what you alledge.

You're not getting it are you? Talk about proof all you want it means f**k all in the court of public opinion every man and his dog know prominent SFers were involved "officially" or not.

The funeral flouted the rules... AGAIN and everyone can see the hypocrisy

Thousands have lost loved ones and not been able to mourn them properly but it's a pity they weren't big Republicans so they could have done it properly!!

Keep talking about proof though that will change the narrative  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:04:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2021, 10:23:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
Obviously you don't move in too many different circles Snapchap plenty of people online and I've talked too are pissed off about another shambles of a Republican funeral... whether Sinn Fein organised it or not they are the Republican Party and they are getting the blame for flouting the rules again... while you may protest it wasn't "officially" organised by SF matters little to the ordinary Joe bloggs.

It's another shambles like the Storey funeral!!

More absolute desperation. SF are the largest republican party but that doesn't mean they can be scapegoated for whatever you feel like where the republican community are concerned. If they had nothing to do with the organisation of this funeral, then they cannot be held responsible for it. And there is precisely no evidence, or even allegation, that they organised it. Nods and winks and the "you're not from Derry", or "the "you don't move in many circles" lines, sadly for yourself and that other clown, don't constitute proof of what you alledge.

You're not getting it are you? Talk about proof all you want it means f**k all in the court of public opinion every man and his dog know prominent SFers were involved "officially" or not.

The funeral flouted the rules... AGAIN and everyone can see the hypocrisy.

Keep talking about proof though that will change the narrative  ::)

And you don't get it. Making an allegation and insisting that no proof is required in order to substantiate that allegation, just doesn't cut it.

Either SF organised it or it they didn't. If they didn't, then they have no case to answer. If you are presenting it as fact that they did organise it, either substantiate the claim or dry up.

Your entire argument centres on what you say the public at large apparently know to be the case, yet as I already pointed out, even the most sectarian and opportunistic dregs of unionism aren't accusing SF of having organised it. That allegation seems to be the preserve of just two desperate souls on gaaboard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:13:00 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40214825.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Mainstream Unionism aren't what now? Sinn Fein are tied to this no matter how much proof exists or doesn't!


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 07:22:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:13:00 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40214825.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Mainstream Unionism aren't what now? Sinn Fein are tied to this no matter how much proof exists or doesn't!

You are just proving my point. She said SF had questions to answer about who was at the funeral. Nowhere did she accuse SF of having organised the thing. Which has been my point all along.

No unionist politicians are arguing that SF organised it. Yet here yourself and FBnaS are, throwing the sort of mud that even unionism isn't throwing - and using the total lack of any evidence as "proof" of what you alledge. Catch yourselves on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 09:56:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 07:22:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:13:00 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40214825.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Mainstream Unionism aren't what now? Sinn Fein are tied to this no matter how much proof exists or doesn't!

You are just proving my point. She said SF had questions to answer about who was at the funeral. Nowhere did she accuse SF of having organised the thing. Which has been my point all along.

No unionist politicians are arguing that SF organised it. Yet here yourself and FBnaS are, throwing the sort of mud that even unionism isn't throwing - and using the total lack of any evidence as "proof" of what you alledge. Catch yourselves on.

OK your arguing about semantics and whether Sinn Fein "officially" organised it. I know they didn't but does that really matter with public opinion?

It's a republican funeral ... that flouted the rules... whether Sinn Fein "officially" organised it or not everybody knows nothing on that scale happens without Sinn Fein's say or involvement in some way. Talk about proof all you like but Sinn Fein are tied to it.

Just because there is no "proof" that Sinn Fein "organised" it that doesn't mean they aren't tied to it!! No matter how much you wish it weren't so.

The fact that they're even mentioned in the article above shows that!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2021, 10:09:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 09:56:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 07:22:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:13:00 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40214825.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Mainstream Unionism aren't what now? Sinn Fein are tied to this no matter how much proof exists or doesn't!

You are just proving my point. She said SF had questions to answer about who was at the funeral. Nowhere did she accuse SF of having organised the thing. Which has been my point all along.

No unionist politicians are arguing that SF organised it. Yet here yourself and FBnaS are, throwing the sort of mud that even unionism isn't throwing - and using the total lack of any evidence as "proof" of what you alledge. Catch yourselves on.

OK your arguing about semantics and whether Sinn Fein "officially" organised it. I know they didn't but does that really matter with public opinion?

It's a republican funeral ... that flouted the rules... whether Sinn Fein "officially" organised it or not everybody knows nothing on that scale happens without Sinn Fein's say or involvement in some way. Talk about proof all you like but Sinn Fein are tied to it.

Just because there is no "proof" that Sinn Fein "organised" it that doesn't mean they aren't tied to it!! No matter how much you wish it weren't so.

The fact that they're even mentioned in the article above shows that!

To be fair the ones that wanted to believe SF were involved officially are going to do that regardless of whether they were or weren't. There's nothing SF can do about that. Those are the sort of people who would never consider voting SF anyway. Which is fair enough. If people don't require proof then it's impossible to have rational discussions with them anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 10:15:01 AM
Oddly enough this forum seems to be a hotbed for Stoops which would seem to go against the demographics up north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 09:56:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 07:22:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:13:00 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40214825.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Mainstream Unionism aren't what now? Sinn Fein are tied to this no matter how much proof exists or doesn't!

You are just proving my point. She said SF had questions to answer about who was at the funeral. Nowhere did she accuse SF of having organised the thing. Which has been my point all along.

No unionist politicians are arguing that SF organised it. Yet here yourself and FBnaS are, throwing the sort of mud that even unionism isn't throwing - and using the total lack of any evidence as "proof" of what you alledge. Catch yourselves on.

OK your arguing about semantics and whether Sinn Fein "officially" organised it. I know they didn't but does that really matter with public opinion?

It's a republican funeral ... that flouted the rules... whether Sinn Fein "officially" organised it or not everybody knows nothing on that scale happens without Sinn Fein's say or involvement in some way. Talk about proof all you like but Sinn Fein are tied to it.

Just because there is no "proof" that Sinn Fein "organised" it that doesn't mean they aren't tied to it!! No matter how much you wish it weren't so.

The fact that they're even mentioned in the article above shows that!

The only people trying to "tie" SF to it are their political opponents or cynical opportunists and hypocrites with an chip on their shoulder about SF. I've been to/involved in enough republican funerals in my lifetime to know that they don't have to involve SF. I imagine it must be frustrating trying to tie SF to this though, when there is literally NO evidence of any description to do so, beyond the possibility that two or three SF councillors (not even identified by anyone yet) were standing at the side of the road as the procession passed. Imagine - all those photos of the crowd and not a single SF rep to be seen in one of them.

At the end of the day, you have accepted that SF didn't organise the funeral and then we know that SF reps in their entirety (sorry, bar apparently a mystery two or three individuals) stayed away from it. They also held an online event to facilitate socially distance remembrance. Sometimes, you have to just put the agenda aside and accept that attempts to pin this on SF are just bogus.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:07:45 PM
Bollocks... you can pretend with your shinnerbot mates that Sinn Fein didn't organise it so it's nothing to do with them all you like.

I work with plenty of Sinn Fein voters and people who have had to bury loved ones with nobody being able to attend the funeral and they're fuming that there's been another Republican funeral with crowds and all the paraphernalia. One rule for them and another for everyone else!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 09:56:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 07:22:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:13:00 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40214825.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Mainstream Unionism aren't what now? Sinn Fein are tied to this no matter how much proof exists or doesn't!

You are just proving my point. She said SF had questions to answer about who was at the funeral. Nowhere did she accuse SF of having organised the thing. Which has been my point all along.

No unionist politicians are arguing that SF organised it. Yet here yourself and FBnaS are, throwing the sort of mud that even unionism isn't throwing - and using the total lack of any evidence as "proof" of what you alledge. Catch yourselves on.

OK your arguing about semantics and whether Sinn Fein "officially" organised it. I know they didn't but does that really matter with public opinion?

It's a republican funeral ... that flouted the rules... whether Sinn Fein "officially" organised it or not everybody knows nothing on that scale happens without Sinn Fein's say or involvement in some way. Talk about proof all you like but Sinn Fein are tied to it.

Just because there is no "proof" that Sinn Fein "organised" it that doesn't mean they aren't tied to it!! No matter how much you wish it weren't so.

The fact that they're even mentioned in the article above shows that!

The only people trying to "tie" SF to it are their political opponents or cynical opportunists and hypocrites with an chip on their shoulder about SF. I've been to/involved in enough republican funerals in my lifetime to know that they don't have to involve SF. I imagine it must be frustrating trying to tie SF to this though, when there is literally NO evidence of any description to do so, beyond the possibility that two or three SF councillors (not even identified by anyone yet) were standing at the side of the road as the procession passed. Imagine - all those photos of the crowd and not a single SF rep to be seen in one of them.

At the end of the day, you have accepted that SF didn't organise the funeral and then we know that SF reps in their entirety (sorry, bar apparently a mystery two or three individuals) stayed away from it. They also held an online event to facilitate socially distance remembrance. Sometimes, you have to just put the agenda aside and accept that attempts to pin this on SF are just bogus.

I am going to have to explain this for you now because you cant clearly grasp it

You are saying SF didn't organise it, based on what? Gerry Kelly on BBC
I am saying they did, based on what? Nolan et al on the BBC amongst other evidence

Who is right, who is wrong?

We don't know so none of those BBC sources can be considered reliable, that has to be the conclusion.

So what are we left with? Tweets and photos  evidencing SF involvement and the fact that the dogs in the street here in Derry know they organised it. Martina defs attended the wake which is against the current regulations and we have to suspect based on the absolute hilarity and ridiculousness of her tweet that she wasn't in Stormont. Loud laughs everywhere with that pic she posted, everyone else got over the Glenshane no sweat.
Apparently Gerry Kelly seen her there, surely it would be have been better to take pic outside Stormont. Balloon.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:15:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 10:15:01 AM
Oddly enough this forum seems to be a hotbed for Stoops which would seem to go against the demographics up north.

Sad you will be missing out on your 18th this year with restrictions and all
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:25:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:07:45 PM
Bollocks... you can pretend with your shinnerbot mates that Sinn Fein didn't organise it so it's nothing to do with them all you like.
You said yourself this morning that you accept they didn't organise it.

Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:07:45 PM
I work with plenty of Sinn Fein voters and people who have had to bury loved ones with nobody being able to attend the funeral and they're fuming that there's been another Republican funeral with crowds and all the paraphernalia. One rule for them and another for everyone else!!
Except that this was a family funeral, organised (by your own admission) by the family. The family are republicans. That doesn't mean SF are answerable for their every action. How can you not get that through your skull? Do you seriously believe anyone thinks your desperation to pin this on SF is motivated by anything other than a personal dislike of SF?

The facts are as follows:
- SF did not organise the funeral
- SF did not advertise/promote the funeral
- SF did not attend the funeral (outside of two unknown councillors who nobody can seem to actually identify)
- SF organised on online remembrance ceremony

So given the above, can you explain, specifically, what SF did wrong here?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 12:26:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:25:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:07:45 PM
Bollocks... you can pretend with your shinnerbot mates that Sinn Fein didn't organise it so it's nothing to do with them all you like.
You said yourself this morning that you accept they didn't organise it.

Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:07:45 PM
I work with plenty of Sinn Fein voters and people who have had to bury loved ones with nobody being able to attend the funeral and they're fuming that there's been another Republican funeral with crowds and all the paraphernalia. One rule for them and another for everyone else!!
Except that this was a family funeral, organised (by your own admission) by the family. The family are republicans. That doesn't mean SF are answerable for their every action. How can you not get that through your skull? Do you seriously believe anyone thinks your desperation to pin this on SF is motivated by anything other than a personal dislike of SF?

The facts are as follows:
- SF did not organise the funeral
- SF did not advertise/promote the funeral
- SF did not attend the funeral (outside of two unknown councillors who nobody can seem to actually identify)
- SF organised on online remembrance ceremony

So given the above, can you explain, specifically, what SF did wrong here?

When agendas are at play, the truths and facts don't matter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
I am going to have to explain this for you now because you cant clearly grasp it

You are saying SF didn't organise it, based on what? Gerry Kelly on BBC
I am saying they did, based on what? Nolan et al on the BBC amongst other evidence
The BBC haven't said that SF organised it. More lies.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
So what are we left with? Tweets and photos  evidencing SF involvement
In all these photos, can you single out ONE SINGLE elected SF representative? Wouldn't it be a bit odd to have stayed away from a funeral that they themselves allegedly organised?

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
and the fact that the dogs in the street here in Derry know they organised it
Saying "sure the dogs on the street know the craic", doesn't really cut it as evidence, does it? For a man who portrays himself as so in-the-know about goings on in Derry, you've already been caught out telling lies/inaccuracies about the funeral. So unless all these Derry dogs are telling you tall tales...

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
Martina defs attended the wake which is against the current regulations and we have to suspect based on the absolute hilarity and ridiculousness of her tweet that she wasn't in Stormont. Loud laughs everywhere with that pic she posted, everyone else got over the Glenshane no sweat.
Apparently Gerry Kelly seen her there, surely it would be have been better to take pic outside Stormont. Balloon.
So she definitely attended the wake? You claimed she definitely was at the funeral too because you read it on twitter (a few loyalist halfwits on twitter decided some brown haired woman in a face mask was her) and because the BBC reported she was there (you even called that your "check mate" argument but then ran of and hid when asked to post the link to where the BBC made such a claim). Forgive me for taking what you say is "definite" with a large mountain of salt.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
I am going to have to explain this for you now because you cant clearly grasp it

You are saying SF didn't organise it, based on what? Gerry Kelly on BBC
I am saying they did, based on what? Nolan et al on the BBC amongst other evidence
The BBC haven't said that SF organised it. More lies.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
So what are we left with? Tweets and photos  evidencing SF involvement
In all these photos, can you single out ONE SINGLE elected SF representative? Wouldn't it be a bit odd to have stayed away from a funeral that they themselves allegedly organised?

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
and the fact that the dogs in the street here in Derry know they organised it
Saying "sure the dogs on the street know the craic", doesn't really cut it as evidence, does it? For a man who portrays himself as so in-the-know about goings on in Derry, you've already been caught out telling lies/inaccuracies about the funeral. So unless all these Derry dogs are telling you tall tales...

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
Martina defs attended the wake which is against the current regulations and we have to suspect based on the absolute hilarity and ridiculousness of her tweet that she wasn't in Stormont. Loud laughs everywhere with that pic she posted, everyone else got over the Glenshane no sweat.
Apparently Gerry Kelly seen her there, surely it would be have been better to take pic outside Stormont. Balloon.
So she definitely attended the wake? You claimed she definitely was at the funeral too because you read it on twitter (a few loyalist halfwits on twitter decided some brown haired woman in a face mask was her) and because the BBC reported she was there (caled that your "check mate" but then ran of and hid when asked to post the link to where the BBC made such a claim). Forgive me for taking what you say is "definite" with a large mountain of salt.

You obviously aren't sharp enough to work out that my comment on Martina Anderson was to show you how weak Gerry Kellys evidence was. Hear Say communicated by BBC. Check Mate
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:57:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
I am going to have to explain this for you now because you cant clearly grasp it

You are saying SF didn't organise it, based on what? Gerry Kelly on BBC
I am saying they did, based on what? Nolan et al on the BBC amongst other evidence
The BBC haven't said that SF organised it. More lies.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
So what are we left with? Tweets and photos  evidencing SF involvement
In all these photos, can you single out ONE SINGLE elected SF representative? Wouldn't it be a bit odd to have stayed away from a funeral that they themselves allegedly organised?

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
and the fact that the dogs in the street here in Derry know they organised it
Saying "sure the dogs on the street know the craic", doesn't really cut it as evidence, does it? For a man who portrays himself as so in-the-know about goings on in Derry, you've already been caught out telling lies/inaccuracies about the funeral. So unless all these Derry dogs are telling you tall tales...

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
Martina defs attended the wake which is against the current regulations and we have to suspect based on the absolute hilarity and ridiculousness of her tweet that she wasn't in Stormont. Loud laughs everywhere with that pic she posted, everyone else got over the Glenshane no sweat.
Apparently Gerry Kelly seen her there, surely it would be have been better to take pic outside Stormont. Balloon.
So she definitely attended the wake? You claimed she definitely was at the funeral too because you read it on twitter (a few loyalist halfwits on twitter decided some brown haired woman in a face mask was her) and because the BBC reported she was there (caled that your "check mate" but then ran of and hid when asked to post the link to where the BBC made such a claim). Forgive me for taking what you say is "definite" with a large mountain of salt.

You obviously aren't sharp enough to work out that my comment on Martina Anderson was to show you how weak Gerry Kellys evidence was. Hear Say communicated by BBC. Check Mate

Your comment about Martina Anderson was a three word allegation:

"She was there".

When I said "prove it", you replied:

"BBC said so. Check mate"

So your comments about Martina Anderson were actually a specific (and false) claim which you "backed up" by referencing a non-existent BBC report.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:57:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
I am going to have to explain this for you now because you cant clearly grasp it

You are saying SF didn't organise it, based on what? Gerry Kelly on BBC
I am saying they did, based on what? Nolan et al on the BBC amongst other evidence
The BBC haven't said that SF organised it. More lies.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
So what are we left with? Tweets and photos  evidencing SF involvement
In all these photos, can you single out ONE SINGLE elected SF representative? Wouldn't it be a bit odd to have stayed away from a funeral that they themselves allegedly organised?

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
and the fact that the dogs in the street here in Derry know they organised it
Saying "sure the dogs on the street know the craic", doesn't really cut it as evidence, does it? For a man who portrays himself as so in-the-know about goings on in Derry, you've already been caught out telling lies/inaccuracies about the funeral. So unless all these Derry dogs are telling you tall tales...

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
Martina defs attended the wake which is against the current regulations and we have to suspect based on the absolute hilarity and ridiculousness of her tweet that she wasn't in Stormont. Loud laughs everywhere with that pic she posted, everyone else got over the Glenshane no sweat.
Apparently Gerry Kelly seen her there, surely it would be have been better to take pic outside Stormont. Balloon.
So she definitely attended the wake? You claimed she definitely was at the funeral too because you read it on twitter (a few loyalist halfwits on twitter decided some brown haired woman in a face mask was her) and because the BBC reported she was there (caled that your "check mate" but then ran of and hid when asked to post the link to where the BBC made such a claim). Forgive me for taking what you say is "definite" with a large mountain of salt.

You obviously aren't sharp enough to work out that my comment on Martina Anderson was to show you how weak Gerry Kellys evidence was. Hear Say communicated by BBC. Check Mate

Your comment about Martina Anderson was a three word allegation:

"She was there".

When I said "prove it", you replied:

"BBC said so. Check mate"

So your comments about Martina Anderson were actually a specific (and false) claim which you "backed up" by referencing a non-existent BBC report.

OMG . Duh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:57:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 27, 2021, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
I am going to have to explain this for you now because you cant clearly grasp it

You are saying SF didn't organise it, based on what? Gerry Kelly on BBC
I am saying they did, based on what? Nolan et al on the BBC amongst other evidence
The BBC haven't said that SF organised it. More lies.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
So what are we left with? Tweets and photos  evidencing SF involvement
In all these photos, can you single out ONE SINGLE elected SF representative? Wouldn't it be a bit odd to have stayed away from a funeral that they themselves allegedly organised?

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
and the fact that the dogs in the street here in Derry know they organised it
Saying "sure the dogs on the street know the craic", doesn't really cut it as evidence, does it? For a man who portrays himself as so in-the-know about goings on in Derry, you've already been caught out telling lies/inaccuracies about the funeral. So unless all these Derry dogs are telling you tall tales...

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
Martina defs attended the wake which is against the current regulations and we have to suspect based on the absolute hilarity and ridiculousness of her tweet that she wasn't in Stormont. Loud laughs everywhere with that pic she posted, everyone else got over the Glenshane no sweat.
Apparently Gerry Kelly seen her there, surely it would be have been better to take pic outside Stormont. Balloon.
So she definitely attended the wake? You claimed she definitely was at the funeral too because you read it on twitter (a few loyalist halfwits on twitter decided some brown haired woman in a face mask was her) and because the BBC reported she was there (caled that your "check mate" but then ran of and hid when asked to post the link to where the BBC made such a claim). Forgive me for taking what you say is "definite" with a large mountain of salt.

You obviously aren't sharp enough to work out that my comment on Martina Anderson was to show you how weak Gerry Kellys evidence was. Hear Say communicated by BBC. Check Mate

Your comment about Martina Anderson was a three word allegation:

"She was there".

When I said "prove it", you replied:

"BBC said so. Check mate"

So your comments about Martina Anderson were actually a specific (and false) claim which you "backed up" by referencing a non-existent BBC report.

OMG . Duh

I shouldn't have called you a clown yesterday. It was disrespectful to actual clowns and I apologise to them all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 27, 2021, 01:21:30 PM
Are SF under police investigation or what then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 27, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
Without getting into the arguments of who organised this funeral, it needs to be noted that there only seems to be outrage when it is a Republican Funeral. I am not condoning the attendance, far from it. Any individual who took it upon themselves to join the cortege is as bad as those throwing house parties. However there have been numerous funerals over the last year where similar has happened without the same furore. I recently observed in passing in my car two funerals near where I live, one at the Catholic Church the other Church of Ireland. Both had many more attendees than the regulations and social distancing was absent. It does not matter if you gather on the roadside or walk behind the coffin it is reckless and a spreading opportunity. I understand that funerals particularly here in Ireland are a culturally significant part of the grieving process, but people need to wise up. Any politician of any hue or rank attending funerals of no relatives should be disciplined.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 04:36:02 PM
Nearly any funeral I have been at in the past year has had about 50-100 or so at the graveyard. I'd imagine that it's happening everywhere.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 28, 2021, 08:19:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 04:36:02 PM
Nearly any funeral I have been at in the past year has had about 50-100 or so at the graveyard. I'd imagine that it's happening everywhere.

No. I had a friend die last week no wake(cancer), another friends father died yesterday, house private and not sure about service yet(COI). Really strong tradition of wakes here in Derry, relative buried last week too, no wake, 25 in chapel and some others gathered in carpark afterwards but didn't approach immediate family. That is why people are pissed off
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 28, 2021, 09:30:36 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 28, 2021, 08:19:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 04:36:02 PM
Nearly any funeral I have been at in the past year has had about 50-100 or so at the graveyard. I'd imagine that it's happening everywhere.

No. I had a friend die last week no wake(cancer), another friends father died yesterday, house private and not sure about service yet(COI). Really strong tradition of wakes here in Derry, relative buried last week too, no wake, 25 in chapel and some others gathered in carpark afterwards but didn't approach immediate family. That is why people are pissed off

Nobody is suggesting it is wrong to be pissed off about the funeral. What is wrong is misrepresenting the truth about the funeral, and using the family's grief, in order to take a pop at a party you have a chip on your shoulder about. Stop pretending that your reasoning for jumping up and down about this funeral is down to some compassionate concern for other families who are obeying the regulations. Your sole motivation is the same as your motivation for your every contribution to this board - getting a dig in at SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 28, 2021, 09:45:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 28, 2021, 09:30:36 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 28, 2021, 08:19:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 04:36:02 PM
Nearly any funeral I have been at in the past year has had about 50-100 or so at the graveyard. I'd imagine that it's happening everywhere.

No. I had a friend die last week no wake(cancer), another friends father died yesterday, house private and not sure about service yet(COI). Really strong tradition of wakes here in Derry, relative buried last week too, no wake, 25 in chapel and some others gathered in carpark afterwards but didn't approach immediate family. That is why people are pissed off

Nobody is suggesting it is wrong to be pissed off about the funeral. What is wrong is misrepresenting the truth about the funeral, and using the family's grief, in order to take a pop at a party you have a chip on your shoulder about. Stop pretending that your reasoning for jumping up and down about this funeral is down to some compassionate concern for other families who are obeying the regulations. Your sole motivation is the same as your motivation for your every contribution to this board - getting a dig in at SF.

My family, my friend, you absolute heartless hoor, now back off please
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 28, 2021, 09:59:26 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 28, 2021, 09:45:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 28, 2021, 09:30:36 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 28, 2021, 08:19:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 04:36:02 PM
Nearly any funeral I have been at in the past year has had about 50-100 or so at the graveyard. I'd imagine that it's happening everywhere.

No. I had a friend die last week no wake(cancer), another friends father died yesterday, house private and not sure about service yet(COI). Really strong tradition of wakes here in Derry, relative buried last week too, no wake, 25 in chapel and some others gathered in carpark afterwards but didn't approach immediate family. That is why people are pissed off

Nobody is suggesting it is wrong to be pissed off about the funeral. What is wrong is misrepresenting the truth about the funeral, and using the family's grief, in order to take a pop at a party you have a chip on your shoulder about. Stop pretending that your reasoning for jumping up and down about this funeral is down to some compassionate concern for other families who are obeying the regulations. Your sole motivation is the same as your motivation for your every contribution to this board - getting a dig in at SF.

My family, my friend, you absolute heartless hoor, now back off please

You have my sympathies on your loss. I should have said that and I apologise. The point still stands though - this family in Derry are suffering a loss too and you are using their loss and their grief purely to take dishonest pops at a political party you dislike, and when you do that, you can't expect to be taken too seriously when talking about morals.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 04:51:48 PM
Rather strange poll for 6 counties, SF become the biggest party by default as the DUP get kicked. 61% of voters think Michelle O'Neill's performance awful, so there isn't exactly a clamour for her to be First Minister.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtIX3gGXIAEg9OZ?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 01, 2021, 05:42:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 04:51:48 PM
Rather strange poll for 6 counties, SF become the biggest party by default as the DUP get kicked. 61% of voters think Michelle O'Neill's performance awful, so there isn't exactly a clamour for her to be First Minister.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtIX3gGXIAEg9OZ?format=jpg&name=medium)

Bad pill for SF , just not as bad as how it reads for DUP. I wouldn't be polling up in Creggan anytime soon, bad fallout after funeral and has nothing to do with attendance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on February 01, 2021, 05:48:43 PM
Jim Allister on Talkback earlier that the First Minister is a shared role and preparing the ground to go after DUP hard and tell voters not to buy into the DUP line you must vote for us to keep Them'uns out. Next Mays assembly elections will be interesting, the Shinners need to insure they are not postponed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: pbat on February 01, 2021, 05:48:43 PM
Jim Allister on Talkback earlier that the First Minister is a shared role and preparing the ground to go after DUP hard and tell voters not to buy into the DUP line you must vote for us to keep Them'uns out. Next Mays assembly elections will be interesting, the Shinners need to insure they are not postponed.

I'd say the shared nature of it will become a lot more evident after the DUP fall into second place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on February 01, 2021, 06:02:40 PM
Exactly, that's the language Jim was using today to start softening the ground.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 01, 2021, 06:45:05 PM
Very interesting folks!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on February 01, 2021, 08:08:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 01, 2021, 05:42:38 PM

Bad pill for SF , just not as bad as how it reads for DUP. I wouldn't be polling up in Creggan anytime soon, bad fallout after funeral and has nothing to do with attendance.

What's the story with this? saw something in the irish news today about it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:11:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 04:51:48 PM
Rather strange poll for 6 counties, SF become the biggest party by default as the DUP get kicked. 61% of voters think Michelle O'Neill's performance awful, so there isn't exactly a clamour for her to be First Minister.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtIX3gGXIAEg9OZ?format=jpg&name=medium)

Absolutely nothing changes in the Assembly elections. Stormont is an utterly dysfunctional system irrespective on who is in charge. A SF, Alliance, SDLP gov would see some positive impacts on society as a whole without the dinosaur unionist vetoing anything productive.

But it can't happen. Stormont is not meant to be effective, it has limited powers from Westminister and is only is situ to stop a sectarian divide where one side gets in power. The chaps who moan and moan about it might have the penny drop about it someday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 01, 2021, 08:20:00 PM
41% Unionist
38% Nationalist
21% Other
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture more of the middle ground, and that will involve softening its hard left reputation and being very pro-active in showing genuine remorse and support for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them. MaryLou is impressive in many ways but no other party wants to be in coalition with SF, and that issue will have to be resolved if she is to gain power
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 01, 2021, 09:41:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Would you ever take a big wise up pill
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 01, 2021, 09:43:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I think you confuse anti SF with pro SDLP. Sometimes it might mean that ,sometimes not, id say there would be easy 5 k republicans in Derry City who don't vote SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on February 01, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Angelo what is middle class?.Would SF be all working class?.Look at husband and wife duo Eoin and Lynn in Dublin what class would they be they earn about 200000 between them do you know if they just take the average industrial wage?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 10:17:37 PM
Quote from: skeog on February 01, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Angelo what is middle class?.Would SF be all working class?.Look at husband and wife duo Eoin and Lynn in Dublin what class would they be they earn about 200000 between them do you know if they just take the average industrial wage?.

A couple making 200k a year would be upper middle class. they could afford a mortgage for a house worth 750k.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on February 01, 2021, 11:01:10 PM
Angelo not many Teachers who are the bedrock of society and to whom we in Ireland owe a deep gratitude earn money like the politicians on the hill and elsewhere so where does your middle class come out off.I know loads of teachers who would descibe themselves as working class.You described them as middle class SDLP do you personally know that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: restorepride on February 01, 2021, 11:10:20 PM
Quote from: skeog on February 01, 2021, 11:01:10 PM
Angelo not many Teachers who are the bedrock of society and to whom we in Ireland owe a deep gratitude earn money like the politicians on the hill and elsewhere so where does your middle class come out off.I know loads of teachers who would descibe themselves as working class.You described them as middle class SDLP do you personally know that.
+1
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 01, 2021, 11:11:14 PM
Teachers would tend to me more SF voters would they not?
This idea that all SF voters are salt of the earth working classes is fanciful. Lots of middle classes vote for SF. Look at their vote in the South. That's not all people earning the average industrial wage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on February 02, 2021, 10:00:29 AM
Angelo how many SF politicians take only the average industrial wage or is it no longer the case.Many working class voters as you describe most SF people i am sure would like to know.We do know all other parties max it to the limit.I left out something about middle class teachers as well.They are the reason our beloved national game flourishes due to their unselfish commitment in coaching pupils all over the island.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: skeog on February 02, 2021, 10:00:29 AM
Angelo how many SF politicians take only the average industrial wage or is it no longer the case.Many working class voters as you describe most SF people i am sure would like to know.We do know all other parties max it to the limit.I left out something about middle class teachers as well.They are the reason our beloved national game flourishes due to their unselfish commitment in coaching pupils all over the island.

The SF politicians in the south claim their full wages. What they used to do was give some of it to the party. it's a nice PR trick. They can claim they aren't getting taking home the same wages as the other TDs while SF gets to build up funds to use come the elections 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on February 02, 2021, 10:21:21 AM
Thanks Dublin 7 for that.So its a bit of some do some dont.Would you clarify for me would teachers be comfortable middle class that Angelo has them portrayed here in the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....

WTF-SF are the only nationalist party on this island? Thats a new one , mad even for you
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 10:43:17 AM
The newer qualified teachers wouldn't be on the same wages that their older colleagues started on as they were thrown under the bus by them and the unions when public sector pay cuts were introduced after the economy crashed, but having said that teachers are still on wages above the economic/industrial average and would be comfortably middle class
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....

WTF-SF are the only nationalist party on this island? Thats a new one , mad even for you

Without question.

You have staunch far right unionist parties - DUP, UUP, TUV.

Middle ground parties who just go with the flow - Alliance, SDLP Greens, Social Democrats

Left parties - PBP

Partionist parties who are reticent to any talks of reunification - FF, FG, Labour.

Nationalist parties - SF and possibly you could include Aontu but they are a fringe organisation

SF are the only party on this island serious about nationalism but you are so entrenched in an agenda to slur them at every opportunity with anecdotes and hearsay, the problem is that people can see your agenda as clear as day so the more you say the more emboldened people get. Did you ever think of teaming up with Ruth Dudley Edwards?



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 02, 2021, 11:03:36 AM
At what pay does one become "middle class"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 02, 2021, 11:11:55 AM
Maybe it's just me but I don't like the term nationalist and consider myself Republican.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 01, 2021, 11:11:14 PM
Teachers would tend to me more SF voters would they not?
This idea that all SF voters are salt of the earth working classes is fanciful. Lots of middle classes vote for SF. Look at their vote in the South. That's not all people earning the average industrial wage.

Willful ignorance there.

You look at where SF get their seats in Dublin, all predominantly from constituencies with working class strongholds. Dublin is probably the only constituency in the south where you can polarise the working class from the middle class/upper class. All the other areas would have significant diversity in their constituencies as they pretty much take full cities or counties in. I'm not sure on the geography of Cork but I worked in Dublin for a number of years so know the environment there. They don't have representation in

Mary Lou runs in Dublin Central which is inner city and hugely working class.
O'Broin and Ward run in Dublin Mid West, again another hugely working class constituency.
Crowe in Dublin South West - another almost universally working class constituency.
Ellis in Dublin North West - again hugely working class constituency.
Donnelly is Dublin West which is a bit of mixed back - has Blanchardstown and Castleknock but I'd say definitely more working class than middle class..
O'Reilly - Fingal again hugely working class.
O'Snodaigh - Dublin South Central - once again hugely working class
Mitchell - Dublin North Bay - probably a more middle class consituency again but it's a 5 seater constituency.
Andrews - Middle class/upper class constituency


The well healed and comfortable middle class will tend not to vote for SF as they run on a ticket of change.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:16:48 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2021, 11:03:36 AM
At what pay does one become "middle class"?

It's all relative.

The younger generation will have a lot less chance of being middle class in the south due to the policies of FFG. For many of them owning a house is a pipe dream with a crazy rental market being consumed by vulture funds and making it impossible for them save a deposit as they move to Dublin for work opportunities in MNCs who report record profits and don't pay their corporation tax.

This is why the u40 generation are voting for SF in their droves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....

WTF-SF are the only nationalist party on this island? Thats a new one , mad even for you

Without question.

You have staunch far right unionist parties - DUP, UUP, TUV.

Middle ground parties who just go with the flow - Alliance, SDLP Greens, Social Democrats

Left parties - PBP

Partionist parties who are reticent to any talks of reunification - FF, FG, Labour.

Nationalist parties - SF and possibly you could include Aontu but they are a fringe organisation

SF are the only party on this island serious about nationalism but you are so entrenched in an agenda to slur them at every opportunity with anecdotes and hearsay, the problem is that people can see your agenda as clear as day so the more you say the more emboldened people get. Did you ever think of teaming up with Ruth Dudley Edwards?

Well lets just agree that you aren't going to get a first class honours anytime soon in politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....

WTF-SF are the only nationalist party on this island? Thats a new one , mad even for you

Without question.

You have staunch far right unionist parties - DUP, UUP, TUV.

Middle ground parties who just go with the flow - Alliance, SDLP Greens, Social Democrats

Left parties - PBP

Partionist parties who are reticent to any talks of reunification - FF, FG, Labour.

Nationalist parties - SF and possibly you could include Aontu but they are a fringe organisation

SF are the only party on this island serious about nationalism but you are so entrenched in an agenda to slur them at every opportunity with anecdotes and hearsay, the problem is that people can see your agenda as clear as day so the more you say the more emboldened people get. Did you ever think of teaming up with Ruth Dudley Edwards?

Well lets just agree that you aren't going to get a first class honours anytime soon in politics.

The only person who'll agree with you is Ruth Dudley Edwards or Gregory Campbell.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 02, 2021, 11:41:41 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 01, 2021, 11:11:14 PM
Teachers would tend to me more SF voters would they not?
This idea that all SF voters are salt of the earth working classes is fanciful. Lots of middle classes vote for SF. Look at their vote in the South. That's not all people earning the average industrial wage.

Willful ignorance there.

You look at where SF get their seats in Dublin, all predominantly from constituencies with working class strongholds. Dublin is probably the only constituency in the south where you can polarise the working class from the middle class/upper class. All the other areas would have significant diversity in their constituencies as they pretty much take full cities or counties in. I'm not sure on the geography of Cork but I worked in Dublin for a number of years so know the environment there. They don't have representation in

Mary Lou runs in Dublin Central which is inner city and hugely working class.
O'Broin and Ward run in Dublin Mid West, again another hugely working class constituency.
Crowe in Dublin South West - another almost universally working class constituency.
Ellis in Dublin North West - again hugely working class constituency.
Donnelly is Dublin West which is a bit of mixed back - has Blanchardstown and Castleknock but I'd say definitely more working class than middle class..
O'Reilly - Fingal again hugely working class.
O'Snodaigh - Dublin South Central - once again hugely working class
Mitchell - Dublin North Bay - probably a more middle class consituency again but it's a 5 seater constituency.
Andrews - Middle class/upper class constituency


The well healed and comfortable middle class will tend not to vote for SF as they run on a ticket of change.

The well healed and comfortable tend not to vote socialist, not just in Ireland but the world over.

Sinn Fein in the south need to appeal to lower middle classes to get to that magic figure of 80, but that's a big leap from the 37 they have. Fielding a few more candidates in some constituencies may have helped but even the Shinners were taken aback by their percentage of the vote.

Coalition with the Shinners is still toxic for the others in the Dail..

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:46:55 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 02, 2021, 11:41:41 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 01, 2021, 11:11:14 PM
Teachers would tend to me more SF voters would they not?
This idea that all SF voters are salt of the earth working classes is fanciful. Lots of middle classes vote for SF. Look at their vote in the South. That's not all people earning the average industrial wage.

Willful ignorance there.

You look at where SF get their seats in Dublin, all predominantly from constituencies with working class strongholds. Dublin is probably the only constituency in the south where you can polarise the working class from the middle class/upper class. All the other areas would have significant diversity in their constituencies as they pretty much take full cities or counties in. I'm not sure on the geography of Cork but I worked in Dublin for a number of years so know the environment there. They don't have representation in

Mary Lou runs in Dublin Central which is inner city and hugely working class.
O'Broin and Ward run in Dublin Mid West, again another hugely working class constituency.
Crowe in Dublin South West - another almost universally working class constituency.
Ellis in Dublin North West - again hugely working class constituency.
Donnelly is Dublin West which is a bit of mixed back - has Blanchardstown and Castleknock but I'd say definitely more working class than middle class..
O'Reilly - Fingal again hugely working class.
O'Snodaigh - Dublin South Central - once again hugely working class
Mitchell - Dublin North Bay - probably a more middle class consituency again but it's a 5 seater constituency.
Andrews - Middle class/upper class constituency


The well healed and comfortable middle class will tend not to vote for SF as they run on a ticket of change.

The well healed and comfortable tend not to vote socialist, not just in Ireland but the world over.

Sinn Fein in the south need to appeal to lower middle classes to get to that magic figure of 80, but that's a big leap from the 37 they have. Fielding a few more candidates in some constituencies may have helped but even the Shinners were taken aback by their percentage of the vote.

Coalition with the Shinners is still toxic for the others in the Dail..

They do appeal to lower middle class voters which is why their vote has grown and continues to grown over the recent years. I don't think any party will be hitting 80 seats down south again.

They will max out somwhere along the 50s. It's a 3 party state, if reuinification happens FF will end up being subsumed by either SF or FG in the long run.

By toxic to the others, you mean FF/FG. They are two sides to the one coin who have had total control over the state for a decade, they have severe worries their gravy train will have ended in SF get in power.

You often see it in the business world where two companies dominate a market and have huge rivalry but then a third competitor comes along and grows significantly and then poses a threat, it's not unusual for the two sworn enemies to come together and keep the new entrant out so they can keep their strangehold on power.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 02, 2021, 11:54:01 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 02, 2021, 11:41:41 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 01, 2021, 11:11:14 PM
Teachers would tend to me more SF voters would they not?
This idea that all SF voters are salt of the earth working classes is fanciful. Lots of middle classes vote for SF. Look at their vote in the South. That's not all people earning the average industrial wage.

Willful ignorance there.

You look at where SF get their seats in Dublin, all predominantly from constituencies with working class strongholds. Dublin is probably the only constituency in the south where you can polarise the working class from the middle class/upper class. All the other areas would have significant diversity in their constituencies as they pretty much take full cities or counties in. I'm not sure on the geography of Cork but I worked in Dublin for a number of years so know the environment there. They don't have representation in

Mary Lou runs in Dublin Central which is inner city and hugely working class.
O'Broin and Ward run in Dublin Mid West, again another hugely working class constituency.
Crowe in Dublin South West - another almost universally working class constituency.
Ellis in Dublin North West - again hugely working class constituency.
Donnelly is Dublin West which is a bit of mixed back - has Blanchardstown and Castleknock but I'd say definitely more working class than middle class..
O'Reilly - Fingal again hugely working class.
O'Snodaigh - Dublin South Central - once again hugely working class
Mitchell - Dublin North Bay - probably a more middle class consituency again but it's a 5 seater constituency.
Andrews - Middle class/upper class constituency


The well healed and comfortable middle class will tend not to vote for SF as they run on a ticket of change.

The well healed and comfortable tend not to vote socialist, not just in Ireland but the world over.

Sinn Fein in the south need to appeal to lower middle classes to get to that magic figure of 80, but that's a big leap from the 37 they have. Fielding a few more candidates in some constituencies may have helped but even the Shinners were taken aback by their percentage of the vote.

Coalition with the Shinners is still toxic for the others in the Dail..

I think that's changing, especially as time goes on.

Was their vote a protest vote, and if so, by how much?

They are very strong in Dublin and making inroads in all areas.  I'd say they'll be building up their council representation over the next 36 months and built from there.

For however good, their vote was last year, it must be remembered they were wiped severely at the local elections previous to that.  So much so that, certain candidates (iirc) didn't get elected in the locals but shortly after got elected on fist counts in the Dáil elections. 

Crazy stuff but shows the total inepitude of Fine Fáil.

Fine Fáil are not interested in re-uniting Ireland.  They've had long enough to do something.

In north, SDLP have lost their identity - sitting in London on the green benches and Eastwood doesn't convince me.  They're in with both FF and FG at election time and have lost their way.

The next 10 years will be interesting. 

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 02, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
Jumping from 10/11% in May 2019 to almost 25% in February 2020 was a big shift.
Shades of Labour 1992 and 2011 perhaps?
That didn't end well.
I'd suspect a lot of younger voters went with SF because of things like difficulty of buying houses and high rents.
Even people in very good jobs hadn't a hope of putting a deposit together unless they were living at home.
FF didn't convince anyone they'd make any difference as they were shoring up FG for 3 and a half years when they could have been pushing them to do something about housing.
Health issues would certainly have swung older people towards SF too.
And of course the irrelevance of Labour and SDP contributed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 12:18:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
Jumping from 10/11% in May 2019 to almost 25% in February 2020 was a big shift.
Shades of Labour 1992 and 2011 perhaps?
That didn't end well.
I'd suspect a lot of younger voters went with SF because of things like difficulty of buying houses and high rents.
Even people in very good jobs hadn't a hope of putting a deposit together unless they were living at home.
FF didn't convince anyone they'd make any difference as they were shoring up FG for 3 and a half years when they could have been pushing them to do something about housing.
Health issues would certainly have swung older people towards SF too.
And of course the irrelevance of Labour and SDP contributed.

SF are going to continue increasing their vote until such time as they get into power as FFG are ran by business interests.

SF don't even have to do much, just let Pearse Doherty, O'Broin and Matt Carthy outline their policies and ambitions and that will tap into what they will do differently.

FFG will continue to sling the mud at them but SF can only be judged when they have power and the fact that FFG keep creating these scandals of fueling of cronyism in official appointments, vulture capitalism on state resources, waste of public funds on their spin doctors and PR teams rather than issues like securing more health staff, sorting out zero hour contracts and minimum wages, providing affordable housing etc.

SF are capitalising by default due to the rotten and corrupt nature of FFG. The last election was a sea for change and FFG did not take notice of the mood of the electorate and have actually made things worse from their time in power.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:21:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....

WTF-SF are the only nationalist party on this island? Thats a new one , mad even for you

Without question.

You have staunch far right unionist parties - DUP, UUP, TUV.

Middle ground parties who just go with the flow - Alliance, SDLP Greens, Social Democrats

Left parties - PBP

Partionist parties who are reticent to any talks of reunification - FF, FG, Labour.

Nationalist parties - SF and possibly you could include Aontu but they are a fringe organisation

SF are the only party on this island serious about nationalism but you are so entrenched in an agenda to slur them at every opportunity with anecdotes and hearsay, the problem is that people can see your agenda as clear as day so the more you say the more emboldened people get. Did you ever think of teaming up with Ruth Dudley Edwards?

Well lets just agree that you aren't going to get a first class honours anytime soon in politics.

The only person who'll agree with you is Ruth Dudley Edwards or Gregory Campbell.

Point proven, I am utterly convinced at this stage that you are very young, not that there is anything wrong with that or that it should exclude you from giving a response, but you are so ill informed that I can only conclude that you have not honestly had enough time to read up on history or even current affairs for that matter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:21:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....

WTF-SF are the only nationalist party on this island? Thats a new one , mad even for you

Without question.

You have staunch far right unionist parties - DUP, UUP, TUV.

Middle ground parties who just go with the flow - Alliance, SDLP Greens, Social Democrats

Left parties - PBP

Partionist parties who are reticent to any talks of reunification - FF, FG, Labour.

Nationalist parties - SF and possibly you could include Aontu but they are a fringe organisation

SF are the only party on this island serious about nationalism but you are so entrenched in an agenda to slur them at every opportunity with anecdotes and hearsay, the problem is that people can see your agenda as clear as day so the more you say the more emboldened people get. Did you ever think of teaming up with Ruth Dudley Edwards?

Well lets just agree that you aren't going to get a first class honours anytime soon in politics.

The only person who'll agree with you is Ruth Dudley Edwards or Gregory Campbell.

Point proven, I am utterly convinced at this stage that you are very young, not that there is anything wrong with that or that it should exclude you from giving a response, but you are so ill informed that I can only conclude that you have not honestly had enough time to read up on history or even current affairs for that matter.

More nonsense from yourself. You really struggle to leave youR agenda at the door.

It's ironic that you are calling me young as it's not very mature behaviour to be running around the internet slandering people and a political party at every turn with hearsay and anecdotal evidence. You're behaving like an obsessed jilted lover. Very immature.

Try and deal in factual matters rather than the kind of Ruth Dudley Edwards contributions you make on here and people might actually respect your contributions on this matter. I think most people cringe when you turn everything into a SF bashing festival, you're ultimately a one trick pony on this forum.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:21:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....

WTF-SF are the only nationalist party on this island? Thats a new one , mad even for you

Without question.

You have staunch far right unionist parties - DUP, UUP, TUV.

Middle ground parties who just go with the flow - Alliance, SDLP Greens, Social Democrats

Left parties - PBP

Partionist parties who are reticent to any talks of reunification - FF, FG, Labour.

Nationalist parties - SF and possibly you could include Aontu but they are a fringe organisation

SF are the only party on this island serious about nationalism but you are so entrenched in an agenda to slur them at every opportunity with anecdotes and hearsay, the problem is that people can see your agenda as clear as day so the more you say the more emboldened people get. Did you ever think of teaming up with Ruth Dudley Edwards?

Well lets just agree that you aren't going to get a first class honours anytime soon in politics.

The only person who'll agree with you is Ruth Dudley Edwards or Gregory Campbell.

Point proven, I am utterly convinced at this stage that you are very young, not that there is anything wrong with that or that it should exclude you from giving a response, but you are so ill informed that I can only conclude that you have not honestly had enough time to read up on history or even current affairs for that matter.

More nonsense from yourself. You really struggle to leave youR agenda at the door.

It's ironic that you are calling me young as it's not very mature behaviour to be running around the internet slandering people and a political party at every turn with hearsay and anecdotal evidence. You're behaving like an obsessed jilted lover. Very immature.

Try and deal in factual matters rather than the kind of Ruth Dudley Edwards contributions you make on here and people might actually respect your contributions on this matter. I think most people cringe when you turn everything into a SF bashing festival, you're ultimately a one trick pony on this forum.
[/b]

RDE?- Im a republican lmfao
most people cringe-Thats some talent you have there, being able to speak for most people, fair play to you.
one trick pony-If you have a look a wee bit closer you will find out that to be balls, you just dont get annoyed with the other stuff lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:51:07 PM

RDE?- Im a republican lmfao
most people cringe-Thats some talent you have there, being able to speak for most people, fair play to you.
one trick pony-If you have a look a wee bit closer you will find out that to be balls, you just dont get annoyed with the other stuff lol

A republican who goes around on an internet forum attacking the main republican party on the most flimsy premise which he is only able to back up with anecdotes and hearsay.

You are a single issue poster on here, 90% of your posts are attacks on SF. Surely a republican would have more pressing concerns than attacking the main arm of it on this island?

You probably need to build a bridge and get over it when it comes to SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 02, 2021, 01:18:25 PM
I see in the local paper today that Mickey Brady pulled in £150k in expenses for FY2019-2020. I live in Armagh and you'd hardly know this fella exists so I'm curious as to what he does for his 150k.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:51:07 PM

RDE?- Im a republican lmfao
most people cringe-Thats some talent you have there, being able to speak for most people, fair play to you.
one trick pony-If you have a look a wee bit closer you will find out that to be balls, you just dont get annoyed with the other stuff lol

A republican who goes around on an internet forum attacking the main republican party on the most flimsy premise which he is only able to back up with anecdotes and hearsay.

You are a single issue poster on here, 90% of your posts are attacks on SF. Surely a republican would have more pressing concerns than attacking the main arm of it on this island?

You probably need to build a bridge and get over it when it comes to SF.

I think you need to keep up, even back to the start of this conversation I didn't bash SF, I told you that you were talking absolute nonsense by saying they were only nationalist party on island, come on that has to be a major wind up, nobody is that ill informed.

Here is another wee anecdote for your beloved SF since you say I am great man for them- the feckers wouldn't even allow Peggy to go in republican plot- and it was 100% SF gave that message- Their brand of republicanism stinks to high heavens and I for one wont be beat into silence on it just to keep "most people" from cringing as you say.

BTW, gone have a wee click on profile and read back on posts to blow that 90% bullsh&t out of the water, its not hard, even for you
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 02, 2021, 01:18:25 PM
I see in the local paper today that Mickey Brady pulled in £150k in expenses for FY2019-2020. I live in Armagh and you'd hardly know this fella exists so I'm curious as to what he does for his 150k.

SF gravy train... all aboard... choo, choo..!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:51:07 PM

RDE?- Im a republican lmfao
most people cringe-Thats some talent you have there, being able to speak for most people, fair play to you.
one trick pony-If you have a look a wee bit closer you will find out that to be balls, you just dont get annoyed with the other stuff lol

A republican who goes around on an internet forum attacking the main republican party on the most flimsy premise which he is only able to back up with anecdotes and hearsay.

You are a single issue poster on here, 90% of your posts are attacks on SF. Surely a republican would have more pressing concerns than attacking the main arm of it on this island?

You probably need to build a bridge and get over it when it comes to SF.

I think you need to keep up, even back to the start of this conversation I didn't bash SF, I told you that you were talking absolute nonsense by saying they were only nationalist party on island, come on that has to be a major wind up, nobody is that ill informed.

Here is another wee anecdote for your beloved SF since you say I am great man for them- the feckers wouldn't even allow Peggy to go in republican plot- and it was 100% SF gave that message- Their brand of republicanism stinks to high heavens and I for one wont be beat into silence on it just to keep "most people" from cringing as you say.

BTW, gone have a wee click on profile and read back on posts to blow that 90% bullsh&t out of the water, its not hard, even for you

Getting a wee bit defensive now. You'll have to work hard on talking about other things than SF. It's 90% of your content on here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
Jumping from 10/11% in May 2019 to almost 25% in February 2020 was a big shift.
Shades of Labour 1992 and 2011 perhaps?
That didn't end well.
I'd suspect a lot of younger voters went with SF because of things like difficulty of buying houses and high rents.
Even people in very good jobs hadn't a hope of putting a deposit together unless they were living at home.
FF didn't convince anyone they'd make any difference as they were shoring up FG for 3 and a half years when they could have been pushing them to do something about housing.
Health issues would certainly have swung older people towards SF too.
And of course the irrelevance of Labour and SDP contributed.

SF's increased share of the vote was more of a protest vote against FF/FG than anything they did themselves in the south. One SF candidate got elected top of the poll in her constituency despite going on holidays for the last week of the election campaign. SF's populist policy of criticising everything is fine in opposition, but given they are likely to be the dominant party after the next election this strategy won't work anymore.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 01:58:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
Jumping from 10/11% in May 2019 to almost 25% in February 2020 was a big shift.
Shades of Labour 1992 and 2011 perhaps?
That didn't end well.
I'd suspect a lot of younger voters went with SF because of things like difficulty of buying houses and high rents.
Even people in very good jobs hadn't a hope of putting a deposit together unless they were living at home.
FF didn't convince anyone they'd make any difference as they were shoring up FG for 3 and a half years when they could have been pushing them to do something about housing.
Health issues would certainly have swung older people towards SF too.
And of course the irrelevance of Labour and SDP contributed.

SF's increased share of the vote was more of a protest vote against FF/FG than anything they did themselves in the south. One SF candidate got elected top of the poll in her constituency despite going on holidays for the last week of the election campaign. SF's populist policy of criticising everything is fine in opposition, but given they are likely to be the dominant party after the next election this strategy won't work anymore.

Nothing really to do with SF as you said.

All do with a century of FFG incompetence and corruption

Who do you vote for anyway?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
I'm sure SF are delighted they have these posters advocating for them on here. Anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine republicans. That's the sort of support SF will want if they want to become mainstream and get into government in the south lol.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 02, 2021, 02:04:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
I'm sure SF are delighted they have these posters advocating for them on here. Anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine republicans. That's the sort of support SF will want if they want to become mainstream and get into government in the south lol.
Who are you on about?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 02, 2021, 02:05:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
I'm sure SF are delighted they have these posters advocating for them on here. Anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine republicans. That's the sort of support SF will want if they want to become mainstream and get into government in the south lol.

I'd guess that SF don't regard the 'General Discussion' subsection of gaaboard.com as being as influential in society as you apparently do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 02, 2021, 03:52:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:21:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....

WTF-SF are the only nationalist party on this island? Thats a new one , mad even for you

Without question.

You have staunch far right unionist parties - DUP, UUP, TUV.

Middle ground parties who just go with the flow - Alliance, SDLP Greens, Social Democrats

Left parties - PBP

Partionist parties who are reticent to any talks of reunification - FF, FG, Labour.

Nationalist parties - SF and possibly you could include Aontu but they are a fringe organisation

SF are the only party on this island serious about nationalism but you are so entrenched in an agenda to slur them at every opportunity with anecdotes and hearsay, the problem is that people can see your agenda as clear as day so the more you say the more emboldened people get. Did you ever think of teaming up with Ruth Dudley Edwards?

Well lets just agree that you aren't going to get a first class honours anytime soon in politics.

The only person who'll agree with you is Ruth Dudley Edwards or Gregory Campbell.

Point proven, I am utterly convinced at this stage that you are very young, not that there is anything wrong with that or that it should exclude you from giving a response, but you are so ill informed that I can only conclude that you have not honestly had enough time to read up on history or even current affairs for that matter.

More nonsense from yourself. You really struggle to leave youR agenda at the door.

It's ironic that you are calling me young as it's not very mature behaviour to be running around the internet slandering people and a political party at every turn with hearsay and anecdotal evidence. You're behaving like an obsessed jilted lover. Very immature.

Try and deal in factual matters rather than the kind of Ruth Dudley Edwards contributions you make on here and people might actually respect your contributions on this matter. I think most people cringe when you turn everything into a SF bashing festival, you're ultimately a one trick pony on this forum.
[/b]

RDE?- Im a republican lmfao
most people cringe-Thats some talent you have there, being able to speak for most people, fair play to you.
one trick pony-If you have a look a wee bit closer you will find out that to be balls, you just dont get annoyed with the other stuff lol

I stand to be corrected but n a message a few weeks ago, didn't you use the term ROI in referencing the 26 counties?

Ahh, come on.  I don't think a nationalist would even use that term.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 04:51:24 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 02, 2021, 03:52:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 12:21:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 01, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Serious question.

Would people actually consider the SDLP nationalist?

Yes.

Any SDLP politicians I know are nationalist and able . SF though the largest party have not been capitalising on the growing nationalist demographic, Alliance has capitalised on this demographic, as the post-troubles generation are attracted by the middle ground. SF biggest problem is avoiding controversy to try and capture more of the middle ground. Hardliners (excluding the tiny percentage who are dissident) are shoo-in and likely to remain loyal , but there is ground to be made closer to the middle . In addition , Hard left ideology brings with it a ceiling to its support, and though attractive to those suffering through poverty, the middle ground are nervous that at a time of uncertainty due to brexit, Covid and potential border poll, a hard left government could be disastrous. SF's only chance of increasing its vote is trying to capture the middle ground, that will involve softening its hard left reputation and showing genuine remorse for victims of the conflict . They are on the verge of power north and south but lack allies, and will have to build up relationships with parties closest to them, and get the young vote out particularly

SF have the support levels they need, they are not going to win any more ground than they already have. SDLP and Alliance are probably as well subsume each other, they have that kind of middle ground won't rock the board and will support the state institutions without question. Where is an SDLP stronghold for example? The Hume legacy in Derry city? Other than that and some middle class catholic areas in Belfast and Down, the SDLP don't dominate nationalist areas politically.

I find this board strange, seems to be more SDLP supporters on it than SF despite SF being the overwhelmingly majority nationalist party in the O6. Maybe it's just that we have a lot of the comfortable middle class teachers on here.

I imagine, There's plenty of SF supporters on this board Angelo. You don't have to be an SDLP supporter to disagree with many of the views and approach you have displayed on various threads

It would be odd for SF supporters to continually criticise SF and say nothing about the SDLP though.

Personally I would have a lot of criticisms of SF too but I am also aware that for me anyway they are the only nationalist party on this whole island. SDLP could be in power for the next 100 years and would make no attempt to forward reunification, they have always be too willing to take the subservient role to bigoted unionism as doing otherwise might damage their own standing.

The SDLP are a middle ground party much the same as Alliance for me with no real identity.

Honestly are you taking the piss now?

Maybe tell us a few anecdotes there as you are a very objective and non partisan poster when it comes to SF.....

WTF-SF are the only nationalist party on this island? Thats a new one , mad even for you

Without question.

You have staunch far right unionist parties - DUP, UUP, TUV.

Middle ground parties who just go with the flow - Alliance, SDLP Greens, Social Democrats

Left parties - PBP

Partionist parties who are reticent to any talks of reunification - FF, FG, Labour.

Nationalist parties - SF and possibly you could include Aontu but they are a fringe organisation

SF are the only party on this island serious about nationalism but you are so entrenched in an agenda to slur them at every opportunity with anecdotes and hearsay, the problem is that people can see your agenda as clear as day so the more you say the more emboldened people get. Did you ever think of teaming up with Ruth Dudley Edwards?

Well lets just agree that you aren't going to get a first class honours anytime soon in politics.

The only person who'll agree with you is Ruth Dudley Edwards or Gregory Campbell.

Point proven, I am utterly convinced at this stage that you are very young, not that there is anything wrong with that or that it should exclude you from giving a response, but you are so ill informed that I can only conclude that you have not honestly had enough time to read up on history or even current affairs for that matter.

More nonsense from yourself. You really struggle to leave youR agenda at the door.

It's ironic that you are calling me young as it's not very mature behaviour to be running around the internet slandering people and a political party at every turn with hearsay and anecdotal evidence. You're behaving like an obsessed jilted lover. Very immature.

Try and deal in factual matters rather than the kind of Ruth Dudley Edwards contributions you make on here and people might actually respect your contributions on this matter. I think most people cringe when you turn everything into a SF bashing festival, you're ultimately a one trick pony on this forum.
[/b]

RDE?- Im a republican lmfao
most people cringe-Thats some talent you have there, being able to speak for most people, fair play to you.
one trick pony-If you have a look a wee bit closer you will find out that to be balls, you just dont get annoyed with the other stuff lol

I stand to be corrected but n a message a few weeks ago, didn't you use the term ROI in referencing the 26 counties?

Ahh, come on.  I don't think a nationalist would even use that term.

Definitely not. SF keeping everyone right about who is and more importantly who isn't a nationalist/ republican/ Irish.
A handy checklist
Support Celtic
Love the Wolf Tones
Support the IRA


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 02, 2021, 04:58:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 04:51:24 PM
Definitely not. SF keeping everyone right about who is and more importantly who isn't a nationalist/ republican/ Irish.
A handy checklist
Support Celtic
Love the Wolf Tones
Support the IRA
A handy checklist for SDLP
Lay wreaths for the British army
Join House of Lords
Argue to increase threshold needed for successful border poll
Stop brexit
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 05:00:40 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2021, 04:58:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 04:51:24 PM
Definitely not. SF keeping everyone right about who is and more importantly who isn't a nationalist/ republican/ Irish.
A handy checklist
Support Celtic
Love the Wolf Tones
Support the IRA
A handy checklist for SDLP
Lay wreaths for the British army
Join House of Lords
Argue to increase threshold needed for successful border poll
Stop brexit

Lol. Can't take can you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:03:40 PM
Stoops really don't like being called out for their subservient nature to the crown.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2021, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:03:40 PM
Stoops really don't like being called out for their subservient nature to the crown.

Shinners don't like being called out as obstacles to a United Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:12:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2021, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:03:40 PM
Stoops really don't like being called out for their subservient nature to the crown.

Shinners don't like being called out as obstacles to a United Ireland.

Funny that the only obstacle to a United Ireland is the only party who actually want it.

If a United Ireland happens it will be because of SF as they are the only party with the political appetite for it on this island.

The Stoops and FFG are against the concept.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 06:32:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2021, 04:58:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 04:51:24 PM
Definitely not. SF keeping everyone right about who is and more importantly who isn't a nationalist/ republican/ Irish.
A handy checklist
Support Celtic
Love the Wolf Tones
Support the IRA
A handy checklist for SDLP
Lay wreaths for the British army
Join House of Lords
Argue to increase threshold needed for successful border poll
Stop brexit

I'll think you will find sinn feign layed wreaths for British army and also Martina Anderson said she would surely stop brexit from Brussels.

Oh sorry I nearly forgot Adams and co couldn't wait to shake hands with chief of staff of paras. Fecking stoops
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2021, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:12:55 PM
If a United Ireland happens it will be because of SF as they are the only party with the political appetite for it on this island.

If a United Ireland happens, it will be despite SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on February 02, 2021, 06:50:25 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2021, 11:11:55 AM
Maybe it's just me but I don't like the term nationalist and consider myself Republican.

Would agree , nationalism is viewed here as wanting a United ireland , and has morphed into being a description for 6 county "Catholics " who never espoused violence. In most other countries it's viewed as a negative term for an inward looking exclusive attitude, and usually considered right wing. Most unionists could be described as Uk nationalists In fact.
I think it would be a positive development to simplify descriptive names into Irish or British or "northern Irish " and right wing, centrist, left wing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:56:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2021, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:12:55 PM
If a United Ireland happens it will be because of SF as they are the only party with the political appetite for it on this island.

If a United Ireland happens, it will be despite SF.

It will because of SF. They are the only party on this island pursuing this at present.

There is zero logic to what your saying, the growth of SF south of the border in recent years is why the United Ireland debate is growing and gaining traction. They are the only party on this island driving the issue and yet somehow you think that they are the barrier to what nobody else is looking to happen.

It is just anti-logic what you are spouting. The biggest barrier to a united Ireland from the O6 point of view has been been the SDLP who have and always will be happy to lick the boots of unionism.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 02, 2021, 07:06:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 05:00:40 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2021, 04:58:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 04:51:24 PM
Definitely not. SF keeping everyone right about who is and more importantly who isn't a nationalist/ republican/ Irish.
A handy checklist
Support Celtic
Love the Wolf Tones
Support the IRA
A handy checklist for SDLP
Lay wreaths for the British army
Join House of Lords
Argue to increase threshold needed for successful border poll
Stop brexit

Lol. Can't take can you?
Well if you want to criticise SF, be my guest, I'll probably even agree with you on some things. If you're going to just stereotype people like some sort of snobby Unionist then expect to have it thrown back at you
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2021, 07:09:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:56:07 PM
It will because of SF. They are the only party on this island pursuing this at present.

There is zero logic to what your saying, the growth of SF south of the border in recent years is why the United Ireland debate is growing and gaining traction. They are the only party on this island driving the issue and yet somehow you think that they are the barrier to what nobody else is looking to happen.

It is just anti-logic what you are spouting. The biggest barrier to a united Ireland from the O6 point of view has been been the SDLP who have and always will be happy to lick the boots of unionism.

No. The evidence shows that a UI is possible.
There are two obstacles
a concern that people who committed the likes of the Enniskillen bombings and those who support them do not win
the lack of an economic model

SF continually send out tweets and the like relating the Troubles, which is no help at all. They need to let it go.
But, above all, the key issue is how can a United Ireland be funded without requiring excessive taxes? SF continually promotes more public spending and higher taxes as it is, nobody has the least confidence in their ability to build an economic model for a United Ireland. Even if they claim that it is possible, no sensible person would believe them.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 07:13:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2021, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:12:55 PM
If a United Ireland happens it will be because of SF as they are the only party with the political appetite for it on this island.

If a United Ireland happens, it will be despite SF.

That's spot on. The die hard Unionists and Republicans will vote for/against a united Ireland regardless of what anyone thinks or recommends. It's the undecided middle ground that will decide it. The full on approach of DUP/SF only alienates that middle ground so it will be up to the remaining parties to swing the vote
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 02, 2021, 07:22:29 PM
One error in your post Armaghniac
SF want to increase spending and also ABOLISH or REDUCE taxes.
Before their drubbing in the 2019 Locals they were reducing or trying to reduce the LPT.
Then they spent the next 51 weeks complaining that those Councils weren't doing enough..   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 07:32:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2021, 07:09:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:56:07 PM
It will because of SF. They are the only party on this island pursuing this at present.

There is zero logic to what your saying, the growth of SF south of the border in recent years is why the United Ireland debate is growing and gaining traction. They are the only party on this island driving the issue and yet somehow you think that they are the barrier to what nobody else is looking to happen.

It is just anti-logic what you are spouting. The biggest barrier to a united Ireland from the O6 point of view has been been the SDLP who have and always will be happy to lick the boots of unionism.

No. The evidence shows that a UI is possible.
There are two obstacles
a concern that people who committed the likes of the Enniskillen bombings and those who support them do not win
the lack of an economic model

SF continually send out tweets and the like relating the Troubles, which is no help at all. They need to let it go.
But, above all, the key issue is how can a United Ireland be funded without requiring excessive taxes? SF continually promotes more public spending and higher taxes as it is, nobody has the least confidence in their ability to build an economic model for a United Ireland. Even if they claim that it is possible, no sensible person would believe them.

And once again your post is just a very emotional rant devoid of facts, utterly deluded from reality. It's a like an opinion piece from the Sunday Independent.

Do you pay attention to the politics the free state?

SF's popularity is growing, growing and growing. The reason is because the two main establishment parties in the south are economically illiterate, crashed the economy, burdened the generations to come with €64bn of national debt to save billionaire bondholders, created a housing crisis by selling property off to private investors, sent the rental market out of control, refused to regulate it as most of them also happen to be landlords. The consequences of such is that young people, couples and families can't afford to buy houses. The health service is utterly disgraceful, a two tier health service where you income rather than your need is what dictates what level of health care you get, the most expensive childrens hospital in the world is going to go 4x over budget and behind schedule and that's not even before we start on the corruption and cronyism and that would require encyclopedias.

You need to take your emotion out of it.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 07:34:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2021, 07:22:29 PM
One error in tour post Armaghniac
SF want to increase spending and also ABOLISH or REDUCE taxes.
Before their drubbing in the 2019 Locals they were reducing or trying to reduce the LPT.
Then they spent the next 51 weeks complaining that those Councils weren't doing enough..

Absolutely and utterly incorrect.

SF actually pledge to increase the tax on wealthy individuals.

FFG are busy quashing a 12bn tax bill for multinationals while building the most expensive children's hospital in the world.

It's no wonder ye are in the state ye are if they allow the likes of you a vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 07:36:10 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 07:13:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2021, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:12:55 PM
If a United Ireland happens it will be because of SF as they are the only party with the political appetite for it on this island.

If a United Ireland happens, it will be despite SF.

That's spot on. The die hard Unionists and Republicans will vote for/against a united Ireland regardless of what anyone thinks or recommends. It's the undecided middle ground that will decide it. The full on approach of DUP/SF only alienates that middle ground so it will be up to the remaining parties to swing the vote

FFG are partitionist by nature.

The good thing for republicans in Ireland is FFG are losing power on this island. It scares you but it should bring hope to future generations.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 08:00:21 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55887817

No surprise here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:01:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 08:00:21 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55887817

No surprise here.

Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose the bill during its final stage debate in the assembly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on February 02, 2021, 08:33:51 PM
Angelo dont think they are losing time for you to get a grip.If your so anti FG why do you still support my beloved Celtic owned by a man who is FGs biggest donor.Do you know any SF members who would head to Parkhead and invest a few pound.At least DD put his hand in his pocket.On spads isnt ML and PD giving out about how many advisers the 3 parties have in the Dail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 02, 2021, 08:37:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

So SF "have control of education, finance, health" and are making a mess of them? You do know that only one of those departments is under SF control?

But yeah sure the problems in the north are all SFs fault. And sure it's not as as though they are part of a multiple party executive after all. Or that they are part of an administration which has no fiscal powers. Or that they have to deal with the DUP on a daily basis. Yup. All problems in the north are directly the fault of SF.

::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: skeog on February 02, 2021, 08:33:51 PM
Angelo dont think they are losing time for you to get a grip.If your so anti FG why do you still support my beloved Celtic owned by a man who is FGs biggest donor.Do you know any SF members who would head to Parkhead and invest a few pound.At least DD put his hand in his pocket.On spads isnt ML and PD giving out about how many advisers the 3 parties have in the Dail.

Well that's a fairly bizarre take.

Desmond is an absolute cretin of a man but fans have little say over who is in charge of the club. They have made their feelings known about him and they also made it known about war criminal John Reid in the past.

The problem with DD is that he hasn't put his hand in his pocket so why you are choosing to spread that lie I don't know?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on February 02, 2021, 08:49:07 PM
Angelo how did he become the main shareholder without having to put his hand in his pocket?.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:49:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 02, 2021, 08:37:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

So SF "have control of education, finance, health" and are making a mess of them? You do know that only one of those departments is under SF control?

But yeah sure the problems in the north are all SFs fault. And sure it's not as as though they are part of a multiple party executive after all. Or that they are part of an administration which has no fiscal powers. Or that they have to deal with the DUP on a daily basis. Yup. All problems in the north are directly the fault of SF.

::)

O'Neill held Health before their sabbatical. O'Dowd held Education. O'Muillioer held Finance and never brought a budget forward I might add. Murphy holds it now and cannot spend the money he was given! They then slabber about tory cuts!
If they want to be in Gov in South you realise they'll be in a coalition? Like ye can't stand up and say it's all the other parties fault. If SF cannot govern in the North then get out of the way. Let others who are willing and capable do it.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 02, 2021, 09:04:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:49:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 02, 2021, 08:37:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

So SF "have control of education, finance, health" and are making a mess of them? You do know that only one of those departments is under SF control?

But yeah sure the problems in the north are all SFs fault. And sure it's not as as though they are part of a multiple party executive after all. Or that they are part of an administration which has no fiscal powers. Or that they have to deal with the DUP on a daily basis. Yup. All problems in the north are directly the fault of SF.

::)

O'Neill held Health before their sabbatical. O'Dowd held Education. O'Muillioer held Finance and never brought a budget forward I might add. Murphy holds it now and cannot spend the money he was given! They then slabber about tory cuts!
If they want to be in Gov in South you realise they'll be in a coalition? Like ye can't stand up and say it's all the other parties fault. If SF cannot govern in the North then get out of the way. Let others who are willing and capable do it.

O'Neill and O'Muilleoir haven't held those ministries for 3 years you absolute spoofer. You claimed they currently control three departments that you describe as a mess even though they only control one of them. That's bad enough but claiming that being in a 5 party executive in a mandatory coalition with no fiscal powers is a direct equivilance to being in power in Dublin, is either you being plain thick or else being deliberately disingenuous. In either case, you're relying on everyone else being thick enough to pay heed to your nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!

It never worked when it was the UUP/SDLP.

It has never worked, it is not working, it will never work. The political system in the O6 simply will never work as long as unionism have the numbers they do.

You also keep negating to mention that the stoops are part of the executive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!

It never worked when it was the UUP/SDLP.

It has never worked, it is not working, it will never work. The political system in the O6 simply will never work as long as unionism have the numbers they do.

You also keep negating to mention that the stoops are part of the executive.

This is the SF way. It's not our fault. Take no responsibility.
I'm happy that you point out the the SDLP and Nicola Mallon are part of the executive. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she is by a huge margin the most impressive minister in the Executive.

Keep slinging shite Angelo, calling names it's pure SF tactics. So predictable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on February 02, 2021, 09:30:23 PM
Angelo your chief partners DUP making some noise about Derry getting new healthcare courses over Coleraine.Righting a wrong from decades ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:31:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!

It never worked when it was the UUP/SDLP.

It has never worked, it is not working, it will never work. The political system in the O6 simply will never work as long as unionism have the numbers they do.

You also keep negating to mention that the stoops are part of the executive.

This is the SF way. It's not our fault. Take no responsibility.
I'm happy that you point out the the SDLP and Nicola Mallon are part of the executive. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she is by a huge margin the most impressive minister in the Executive.

Keep slinging shite Angelo, calling names it's pure SF tactics. So predictable.

I don't sling shite. You do enough of that by yourself.

The stoops are a dead duck, they have spent their existence licking the boots of unionism and by God do the stoops love the soup.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:32:12 PM
Quote from: skeog on February 02, 2021, 09:30:23 PM
Angelo your chief partners DUP making some noise about Derry getting new healthcare courses over Coleraine.Righting a wrong from decades ago.

My chief partners?

It's a 5 party executive. You seem like your standard ashamed stoop who goes around attacking everybody else hoping that they don't notice you're an SDLP voter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 09:35:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:01:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 08:00:21 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55887817

No surprise here.

Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose the bill during its final stage debate in the assembly.

Yeah it's gravy train stuff .. it was the only way SF could get absolute tubes with no experience on absolute massive salaries . Martina Anderson husband one of many examples.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:36:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:31:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!

It never worked when it was the UUP/SDLP.

It has never worked, it is not working, it will never work. The political system in the O6 simply will never work as long as unionism have the numbers they do.

You also keep negating to mention that the stoops are part of the executive.

This is the SF way. It's not our fault. Take no responsibility.
I'm happy that you point out the the SDLP and Nicola Mallon are part of the executive. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she is by a huge margin the most impressive minister in the Executive.

Keep slinging shite Angelo, calling names it's pure SF tactics. So predictable.

I don't sling shite. You do enough of that by yourself.

The stoops are a dead duck, they have spent their existence licking the boots of unionism and by God do the stoops love the soup.

Stoops, Stoops, Stoops. Soup, soup, soup.
You're full of dung and in every thread that's it's put up to you, you resort to the same shite. You remind me of the slabber in the bar, talks about how he'd do things, how he's so great, all business and if you tipped him upside down there wouldn't be £2 run out. Completely full of dung.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 09:38:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:36:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:31:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!

It never worked when it was the UUP/SDLP.

It has never worked, it is not working, it will never work. The political system in the O6 simply will never work as long as unionism have the numbers they do.

You also keep negating to mention that the stoops are part of the executive.

This is the SF way. It's not our fault. Take no responsibility.
I'm happy that you point out the the SDLP and Nicola Mallon are part of the executive. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she is by a huge margin the most impressive minister in the Executive.

Keep slinging shite Angelo, calling names it's pure SF tactics. So predictable.

I don't sling shite. You do enough of that by yourself.

The stoops are a dead duck, they have spent their existence licking the boots of unionism and by God do the stoops love the soup.

Stoops, Stoops, Stoops. Soup, soup, soup.
You're full of dung and in every thread that's it's put up to you, you resort to the same shite. You remind me of the slabber in the bar, talks about how he'd do things, how he's so great, all business and if you tipped him upside down there wouldn't be £2 run out. Completely full of dung.

Don't use a bar analogy with Angelo he's still standing outside getting bigger lads to go and get his 4 bottles of blue wkd
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:36:16 PM


Stoops, Stoops, Stoops. Soup, soup, soup.
You're full of dung and in every thread that's it's put up to you, you resort to the same shite. You remind me of the slabber in the bar, talks about how he'd do things, how he's so great, all business and if you tipped him upside down there wouldn't be £2 run out. Completely full of dung.

You seem to suffer from a very severe case of illusory superiority complex.

I'm add your beloved stoops in for context. You see once you have to explain to everyone that you're an SDLP voter it instantly detracts any credibility from your statements.

Anyway go find your nearest unionist and ask him if you can lick his boots.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 02, 2021, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!

It never worked when it was the UUP/SDLP.

It has never worked, it is not working, it will never work. The political system in the O6 simply will never work as long as unionism have the numbers they do.

You also keep negating to mention that the stoops are part of the executive.

This is the SF way. It's not our fault. Take no responsibility.
I'm happy that you point out the the SDLP and Nicola Mallon are part of the executive. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she is by a huge margin the most impressive minister in the Executive.

Keep slinging shite Angelo, calling names it's pure SF tactics. So predictable.

You ahould maybe ask the taxi drivers that question?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:47:50 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 02, 2021, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!

It never worked when it was the UUP/SDLP.

It has never worked, it is not working, it will never work. The political system in the O6 simply will never work as long as unionism have the numbers they do.

You also keep negating to mention that the stoops are part of the executive.

This is the SF way. It's not our fault. Take no responsibility.
I'm happy that you point out the the SDLP and Nicola Mallon are part of the executive. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she is by a huge margin the most impressive minister in the Executive.

Keep slinging shite Angelo, calling names it's pure SF tactics. So predictable.

You ahould maybe ask the taxi drivers that question?

Should I? Or should I actually ask the Dept of Economy. You're starting to sound like that header Martina Anderson
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:49:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:36:16 PM


Stoops, Stoops, Stoops. Soup, soup, soup.
You're full of dung and in every thread that's it's put up to you, you resort to the same shite. You remind me of the slabber in the bar, talks about how he'd do things, how he's so great, all business and if you tipped him upside down there wouldn't be £2 run out. Completely full of dung.

You seem to suffer from a very severe case of illusory superiority complex.

I'm add your beloved stoops in for context. You see once you have to explain to everyone that you're an SDLP voter it instantly detracts any credibility from your statements.

Anyway go find your nearest unionist and ask him if you can lick his boots.

Where does this fit in with the equality, respect, integrity agenda?
Every time Angelo, every time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 09:58:34 PM
So are we still saying that sectarianism is only an issue for the Unionists to deal with and doesn't happen on the side?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 10:20:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 09:58:34 PM
So are we still saying that sectarianism is only an issue for the Unionists to deal with and doesn't happen on the side?

You'd have to ask FFG about that?

Have they ever apologised for Dunmanway?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 02, 2021, 10:46:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:47:50 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 02, 2021, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!

It never worked when it was the UUP/SDLP.

It has never worked, it is not working, it will never work. The political system in the O6 simply will never work as long as unionism have the numbers they do.

You also keep negating to mention that the stoops are part of the executive.

This is the SF way. It's not our fault. Take no responsibility.
I'm happy that you point out the the SDLP and Nicola Mallon are part of the executive. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she is by a huge margin the most impressive minister in the Executive.

Keep slinging shite Angelo, calling names it's pure SF tactics. So predictable.

You ahould maybe ask the taxi drivers that question?

Should I? Or should I actually ask the Dept of Economy. You're starting to sound like that header Martina Anderson

No taxi drivers protesting outside her office...lol.

Tut tut.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 11:42:02 PM
Big O Dowd one of the guys in SF who id have time for, but seen him yesterday on TV, doesn't look well at all, very shaky and peaky looking.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on February 02, 2021, 11:48:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 02, 2021, 11:42:02 PM
Big O Dowd one of the guys in SF who id have time for, but seen him yesterday on TV, doesn't look well at all, very shaky and peaky looking.

Had the same thought myself watching him on his feet in Stormont yesterday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 03, 2021, 09:01:59 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 02, 2021, 10:46:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:47:50 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 02, 2021, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Few points re SF. Helps to cut through all their noise about the SDLP, FF & FG
They are in government in the North (for over 10 years!!)
They administer British rule in the North.

They can sling mud and even their apologists can talk all the shite they want on here but these are facts. If they were such a pure Republican Party how can administer British rule? If they're the answer to all the problems in the South how come the North is a mess, in areas they have control of education, finance, health.

Newsflash to trailer.

SDLP are in government in the O6. Something he seems to overlook time and time again.

The political system in the north is not meant to work, it's just there to avoid a sectarian headcount and that's before we even get to the role of Westminister.

f**k sake SF negotiated it exclusively with the DUP! The St Andrews agreement and then the Stormont house agreement!!

It never worked when it was the UUP/SDLP.

It has never worked, it is not working, it will never work. The political system in the O6 simply will never work as long as unionism have the numbers they do.

You also keep negating to mention that the stoops are part of the executive.

This is the SF way. It's not our fault. Take no responsibility.
I'm happy that you point out the the SDLP and Nicola Mallon are part of the executive. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she is by a huge margin the most impressive minister in the Executive.

Keep slinging shite Angelo, calling names it's pure SF tactics. So predictable.

You ahould maybe ask the taxi drivers that question?

Should I? Or should I actually ask the Dept of Economy. You're starting to sound like that header Martina Anderson

No taxi drivers protesting outside her office...lol.

Tut tut.

Well someone should give them directions to the Dept of Economy or Dept of Finance. This is the same nonsense that mad yoke Martina Anderson came out with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 10:22:27 AM
Yeah. Dodds isn't very useful at all I don't think. I was just wondering what part Mallon had too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

You think?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 10:44:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

Nicola Mallon was responsible for coming up with the scheme. She sent it to the finance minister to be approved for funding and that's were the issue is
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:51:42 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 10:44:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet


Nicola Mallon was responsible for coming up with the scheme. She sent it to the finance minister to be approved for funding and that's were the issue is

Eh.

Major holes in that story. She is only now making steps to sort a second scheme out.

The first one was in November and had a lot of stipulations in it that meant a lot of taxi drivers missed out on any funding.

I know you have major issues with the truth so I think this is best brought to light here and now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 11:50:25 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 10:44:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

Nicola Mallon was responsible for coming up with the scheme. She sent it to the finance minister to be approved for funding and that's were the issue is

Almost 90% of all taxi drivers who applied for the grant received it so she must be doing something right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:55:59 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 11:50:25 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 10:44:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

Nicola Mallon was responsible for coming up with the scheme. She sent it to the finance minister to be approved for funding and that's were the issue is

Almost 90% of all taxi drivers who applied for the grant received it so she must be doing something right.

Did you meant to respond to yourself or was that for another login?

Do you think a lot of taxi drivers are going to apply for something that precludes them? Seems a bit of a daftie logic there.

If you were informed on the topic you are talking about you will there was quite a lot of anger among taxi drivers as the terms of the grants excluded quite a large share of them.

You're basically praising Mallon for making a dogs dinner of and something she is drawing huge criticism over.

Bizarre.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

You think?

Get a job or a hobby
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

You think?

Get a job or a hobby

So you don't actually know.

Just wanted to clarify.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

You think?

Get a job or a hobby

So you don't actually know.

Just wanted to clarify.

I actually don't care, its either or lad, take your pick Dodds and Murphy not up to much
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on February 03, 2021, 01:01:48 PM
Taxi drivers entitled to apply for Universal Credit an Self Employed grant from HMRC, problem for them is most of them are fiddling their tax returns so they would have received a much lesser amount than they need. You would think it was the only sector hit hard by Covid19
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 01:05:50 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 03, 2021, 01:01:48 PM
Taxi drivers entitled to apply for Universal Credit an Self Employed grant from HMRC, problem for them is most of them are fiddling their tax returns so they would have received a much lesser amount than they need. You would think it was the only sector hit hard by Covid19

No surprise there
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

You think?

Get a job or a hobby

So you don't actually know.

Just wanted to clarify.

I actually don't care, its either or lad, take your pick Dodds and Murphy not up to much

Odd that you don't care.

Or Mallon for that matter who is overseeing this shitshow. You sure you're not a stoop. You do a lot of defending of them for someone who doesn't vote for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 01:27:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

You think?

Get a job or a hobby

So you don't actually know.

Just wanted to clarify.

I actually don't care, its either or lad, take your pick Dodds and Murphy not up to much

Odd that you don't care.

Or Mallon for that matter who is overseeing this shitshow. You sure you're not a stoop. You do a lot of defending of them for someone who doesn't vote for them.

Im sure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 01:27:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
What is the story with the taxi driver situation? Is it just black taxi men or the private taxis too? Every tweet Mallon puts out she gets abuse from the taxi men. Is it her doing or what are the issues? I see that some had "furloughed" their insurance and got nothing and then there's the amount of the payment itself and how late that was.

Is that her doing? Is it Dodds's doing? Is it both?? (I don't know but am genuinely interested as in general she's very good but that is her major black mark if it is a black mark).

I think the money has to come from Finance or Economy-it hasn't yet

You think?

Get a job or a hobby

So you don't actually know.

Just wanted to clarify.

I actually don't care, its either or lad, take your pick Dodds and Murphy not up to much

Odd that you don't care.

Or Mallon for that matter who is overseeing this shitshow. You sure you're not a stoop. You do a lot of defending of them for someone who doesn't vote for them.

Im sure.

Odd you spend a lot of time defending them. ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 08:28:01 PM
What an absolute guttersnipe of a politician Michael Martin is.

https://twitter.com/Farrell_Mairead/status/1356991206484492288
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 03, 2021, 09:22:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 08:28:01 PM
What an absolute guttersnipe of a politician Michael Martin is.

https://twitter.com/Farrell_Mairead/status/1356991206484492288

A typical west brit.

Crass behaviour from Martin but not unexpected.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on February 03, 2021, 10:16:31 PM

Rep. Kevin J. Boyle
@RepKevinBoyle
Would be hard pressed to find a more insensitive response to a relative of someone murdered in cold blood by British state forces. This reaction was deliberate however because this is a well rehearsed strategy in covering up British state terrorism so not to outrage the public.

Martin mighten be as welcome in Washington Patrick's Day as he thinks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: pbat on February 03, 2021, 10:16:31 PM

Rep. Kevin J. Boyle
@RepKevinBoyle
Would be hard pressed to find a more insensitive response to a relative of someone murdered in cold blood by British state forces. This reaction was deliberate however because this is a well rehearsed strategy in covering up British state terrorism so not to outrage the public.

Martin mighten be as welcome in Washington Patrick's Day as he thinks.

That tweet will have Martin pumping in cold sweat.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:57:08 PM
Quote from: pbat on February 03, 2021, 10:16:31 PM

Rep. Kevin J. Boyle
@RepKevinBoyle
Would be hard pressed to find a more insensitive response to a relative of someone murdered in cold blood by British state forces. This reaction was deliberate however because this is a well rehearsed strategy in covering up British state terrorism so not to outrage the public.

Martin mighten be as welcome in Washington Patrick's Day as he thinks.

Would it not be better to shun Boris , I think that would be more effective really , ah they will all be happy families come paddies whenever it happens again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:14:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 03, 2021, 10:57:08 PM
Quote from: pbat on February 03, 2021, 10:16:31 PM

Rep. Kevin J. Boyle
@RepKevinBoyle
Would be hard pressed to find a more insensitive response to a relative of someone murdered in cold blood by British state forces. This reaction was deliberate however because this is a well rehearsed strategy in covering up British state terrorism so not to outrage the public.

Martin mighten be as welcome in Washington Patrick's Day as he thinks.

Would it not be better to shun Boris , I think that would be more effective really , ah they will all be happy families come paddies whenever it happens again.

I suppose you agree with the disgraceful comments from Martin? The free state continues to fail northern nationalists and those comments were beyond disgraceful.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )

100%

He consistently plays political football with the troubles.

Wheeling out Paul Quinn at election time but then denigrating innocent victims of the troubles when he has challenged on how his government are failing in their commitments to the Stormont government.

I made the point a few weeks ago. Nationalists/republicans of any background - moderate/pacifist/pro force - it does not matter what your beliefs are in that regard - should all be utterly appalled and the crass and callous way in which the establishment parties of the FS consistently try to demean and degrade the struggles of catholics in the O6. They will regularly wheel out a Mairia Cahill or a Paul Quinn to snipe at a political rival but when it comes to victims on the nationalist/republican side they appoint a head RUC man who quashed the Glenanne Gang investigation as head of their police force. They actively thwart the McAnespie family in their quest for justice. They covered up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and have no appetite to ever get justice for the largest terrorist atrocity in their state.

TBF it's mainly a FG tactic but Martin is even worse than FG in this regard, he's as republican as Edwin Poots and hopefully victims groups of the north shame him into an unreserved apology for those utterly disgraceful comments yesterday.

You have Rossfan and Dublin7 telling you that SF are the barrier to an United Ireland but the likes of FG and Michael Martin will do everything in their power to actively prevent it from happening.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
It was as shameful and crass an outburst form Micheal Martin as I've ever heard from a southern politician with regards the conflict and victims - and that's really saying something because there's a rich history of such comments to pick from going down the years.

For those unaware of the background, Relatives for Justice penned an open letter to Micheal Martin several weeks ago, which was signed by 3,500 bereaved relatives from the troubles, from all sides. The letter asked Martin to both meet with the group and to help force the enactment of commitments made in the 2014 Stormont House Agreement, an agreement which the Irish Government was a signatory to, and which the British Government have been reneging on.

It was already revealed by the group that Micheal Martin had not replied to their letter; but his coldhearted, sinister, despicable outburst yesterday would make it appear that he never even read it. His reaction to being asked about it was to essentially shout "what about IRA victims" and to have a few cheap digs at SF. Had he read the names under the letter, he would have known that it represented victims from all sides, including IRA victims.

What makes his remarks yesterday all the more appalling is it re-emphasises that in the eyes of this government, there is a very definite hierarchy of victims (not a surprise to anyone) - because Michael, on the false assumption that this letter was only from collusion victims therefor:

     1. Didn't read it
     2. Didn't reply to it
     3. Attacked one of the signatories of the letter when asked if he would respond to it
     4. Used it as a way to attack his political opponents.

Now, just imagine if a group made up solely of IRA victims reached out to Micheal Martin for support, does anyone seriously believe he would be as openly hostile to that group as he was yesterday? Can't you just picture him posing with such a group on the steps of Leinster House and telling the RTÉ cameras how moved he was by their stories and pledging to them his unwavering support?

Anyone who EVER suggests that Micheal Martin has any genuine concern for the north of our country, should be sat down and made watch that video. Make no mistake, his remarks were not just a kick in the teeth to the victims he assumed fell into his 'non-useful' category, but were a direct kick in the teeth to the people of the north as a whole. Serious questions should now be asked of Colum Eastwood's judgement in getting involved with this man.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )

100%

He consistently plays political football with the troubles.

Wheeling out Paul Quinn at election time but then denigrating innocent victims of the troubles when he has challenged on how his government are failing in their commitments to the Stormont government.

I made the point a few weeks ago. Nationalists/republicans of any background - moderate/pacifist/pro force - it does not matter what your beliefs are in that regard - should all be utterly appalled and the crass and callous way in which the establishment parties of the FS consistently try to demean and degrade the struggles of catholics in the O6. They will regularly wheel out a Mairia Cahill or a Paul Quinn to snipe at a political rival but when it comes to victims on the nationalist/republican side they appoint a head RUC man who quashed the Glenanne Gang investigation as head of their police force. They actively thwart the McAnespie family in their quest for justice. They covered up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and have no appetite to ever get justice for the largest terrorist atrocity in their state.

TBF it's mainly a FG tactic but Martin is even worse than FG in this regard, he's as republican as Edwin Poots and hopefully victims groups of the north shame him into an unreserved apology for those utterly disgraceful comments yesterday.

You have Rossfan and Dublin7 telling you that SF are the barrier to an United Ireland but the likes of FG and Michael Martin will do everything in their power to actively prevent it from happening.

You don't seem to understand that Paul Quinn and Maria Cahill are nationalist victims. Maybe they're are just not the right type of victims?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
It was as shameful and crass an outburst form Micheal Martin as I've ever heard from a southern politician with regards the conflict and victims - and that's really saying something because there's a rich history of such comments to pick from going down the years.

For those unaware of the background, Relatives for Justice penned an open letter to Micheal Martin several weeks ago, which was signed by 3,500 bereaved relatives from the troubles, from all sides. The letter asked Martin to both meet with the group and to help force the enactment of commitments made in the 2014 Stormont House Agreement, an agreement which the Irish Government was a signatory to, and which the British Government have been reneging on.

It was already revealed by the group that Micheal Martin had not replied to their letter; but his coldhearted, sinister, despicable outburst yesterday would make it appear that he never even read it. His reaction to being asked about it was to essentially shout "what about IRA victims" and to have a few cheap digs at SF. Had he read the names under the letter, he would have know that it represented victims from all sides, including IRA victims.

What makes his remarks yesterday all the more appalling is it re-emphasises that in the eyes of this government, there is a very definite hierarchy of victims (not a surprise to anyone) - because Michael, on the false assumption that this letter was only from collusion victims therefor:

     1. Didn't read it
     2. Didn't reply to it
     3. Attacked one of the signatories is the letter when asked if he would respond to it
     4. Used it as a way to attack his political opponents.

Now, just imagine if a group made up solely of IRA victims reached out to Micheal Martin for support, does anyone seriously believe he would be as openly hostile to that group as he was yesterday? Can't you just picture him posing with such a group on the steps of Leinster House and telling the RTÉ cameras how moved he was by their stories and pledging to them his unwavering support?

Anyone who EVER suggests that Micheal Martin has any genuine concern for the north of our country, should be sat down and made watch that video. Make no mistake, his remarks were not just a kick in the teeth to the victims he assumed fell into his 'non-useful' category, but were a direct kick in the teeth to the people of the north as a whole. Serious questions should now be asked of Colum Eastwood's judgement in getting involved with this man.

Great post Snapchat.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )

100%

He consistently plays political football with the troubles.

Wheeling out Paul Quinn at election time but then denigrating innocent victims of the troubles when he has challenged on how his government are failing in their commitments to the Stormont government.

I made the point a few weeks ago. Nationalists/republicans of any background - moderate/pacifist/pro force - it does not matter what your beliefs are in that regard - should all be utterly appalled and the crass and callous way in which the establishment parties of the FS consistently try to demean and degrade the struggles of catholics in the O6. They will regularly wheel out a Mairia Cahill or a Paul Quinn to snipe at a political rival but when it comes to victims on the nationalist/republican side they appoint a head RUC man who quashed the Glenanne Gang investigation as head of their police force. They actively thwart the McAnespie family in their quest for justice. They covered up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and have no appetite to ever get justice for the largest terrorist atrocity in their state.

TBF it's mainly a FG tactic but Martin is even worse than FG in this regard, he's as republican as Edwin Poots and hopefully victims groups of the north shame him into an unreserved apology for those utterly disgraceful comments yesterday.

You have Rossfan and Dublin7 telling you that SF are the barrier to an United Ireland but the likes of FG and Michael Martin will do everything in their power to actively prevent it from happening.

You don't seem to understand that Paul Quinn and Maria Cahill are nationalist victims. Maybe they're are just not the right type of victims?

I understand they are victims but you don't seem to grasp that Martin uses them as political footballs while his government actively thwart the McAnespire family in their own attempts for justice.

Did you find his comments appropriate yesterday?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )

100%

He consistently plays political football with the troubles.

Wheeling out Paul Quinn at election time but then denigrating innocent victims of the troubles when he has challenged on how his government are failing in their commitments to the Stormont government.

I made the point a few weeks ago. Nationalists/republicans of any background - moderate/pacifist/pro force - it does not matter what your beliefs are in that regard - should all be utterly appalled and the crass and callous way in which the establishment parties of the FS consistently try to demean and degrade the struggles of catholics in the O6. They will regularly wheel out a Mairia Cahill or a Paul Quinn to snipe at a political rival but when it comes to victims on the nationalist/republican side they appoint a head RUC man who quashed the Glenanne Gang investigation as head of their police force. They actively thwart the McAnespie family in their quest for justice. They covered up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and have no appetite to ever get justice for the largest terrorist atrocity in their state.

TBF it's mainly a FG tactic but Martin is even worse than FG in this regard, he's as republican as Edwin Poots and hopefully victims groups of the north shame him into an unreserved apology for those utterly disgraceful comments yesterday.

You have Rossfan and Dublin7 telling you that SF are the barrier to an United Ireland but the likes of FG and Michael Martin will do everything in their power to actively prevent it from happening.

You don't seem to understand that Paul Quinn and Maria Cahill are nationalist victims. Maybe they're are just not the right type of victims?

I understand they are victims but you don't seem to grasp that Martin uses them as political footballs while his government actively thwart the McAnespire family in their own attempts for justice.

Did you find his comments appropriate yesterday?

So he shouldn't talk about Maria Cahill or Paul Quinn? Have you got a list of victims he should talk about for reference?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 10:29:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )

100%

He consistently plays political football with the troubles.

Wheeling out Paul Quinn at election time but then denigrating innocent victims of the troubles when he has challenged on how his government are failing in their commitments to the Stormont government.

I made the point a few weeks ago. Nationalists/republicans of any background - moderate/pacifist/pro force - it does not matter what your beliefs are in that regard - should all be utterly appalled and the crass and callous way in which the establishment parties of the FS consistently try to demean and degrade the struggles of catholics in the O6. They will regularly wheel out a Mairia Cahill or a Paul Quinn to snipe at a political rival but when it comes to victims on the nationalist/republican side they appoint a head RUC man who quashed the Glenanne Gang investigation as head of their police force. They actively thwart the McAnespie family in their quest for justice. They covered up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and have no appetite to ever get justice for the largest terrorist atrocity in their state.

TBF it's mainly a FG tactic but Martin is even worse than FG in this regard, he's as republican as Edwin Poots and hopefully victims groups of the north shame him into an unreserved apology for those utterly disgraceful comments yesterday.

You have Rossfan and Dublin7 telling you that SF are the barrier to an United Ireland but the likes of FG and Michael Martin will do everything in their power to actively prevent it from happening.

You don't seem to understand that Paul Quinn and Maria Cahill are nationalist victims. Maybe they're are just not the right type of victims?

I understand they are victims but you don't seem to grasp that Martin uses them as political footballs while his government actively thwart the McAnespire family in their own attempts for justice.

Did you find his comments appropriate yesterday?

So he shouldn't talk about Maria Cahill or Paul Quinn? Have you got a list of victims he should talk about for reference?

So you think Mairia Cahill and Paul Quinn are more deserving of justice than say the family of Majella O'Hare - a 12 year old girl shot in the back over 40 years ago by a British soldier?

I never heard Michael Martin look for justice for her but he is happy to wheel out selective victims and use them to score political points.

You're every bit as nasty and cynical as Martin. Maybe go and tell the families of victims of the British state terrorism on this island why Paul Quinn and Mairia Cahill deserve their case heard more.

Absolutely vile stuff from you as per usual.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )

100%

He consistently plays political football with the troubles.

Wheeling out Paul Quinn at election time but then denigrating innocent victims of the troubles when he has challenged on how his government are failing in their commitments to the Stormont government.

I made the point a few weeks ago. Nationalists/republicans of any background - moderate/pacifist/pro force - it does not matter what your beliefs are in that regard - should all be utterly appalled and the crass and callous way in which the establishment parties of the FS consistently try to demean and degrade the struggles of catholics in the O6. They will regularly wheel out a Mairia Cahill or a Paul Quinn to snipe at a political rival but when it comes to victims on the nationalist/republican side they appoint a head RUC man who quashed the Glenanne Gang investigation as head of their police force. They actively thwart the McAnespie family in their quest for justice. They covered up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and have no appetite to ever get justice for the largest terrorist atrocity in their state.

TBF it's mainly a FG tactic but Martin is even worse than FG in this regard, he's as republican as Edwin Poots and hopefully victims groups of the north shame him into an unreserved apology for those utterly disgraceful comments yesterday.

You have Rossfan and Dublin7 telling you that SF are the barrier to an United Ireland but the likes of FG and Michael Martin will do everything in their power to actively prevent it from happening.

You don't seem to understand that Paul Quinn and Maria Cahill are nationalist victims. Maybe they're are just not the right type of victims?

I understand they are victims but you don't seem to grasp that Martin uses them as political footballs while his government actively thwart the McAnespire family in their own attempts for justice.

Did you find his comments appropriate yesterday?

So he shouldn't talk about Maria Cahill or Paul Quinn? Have you got a list of victims he should talk about for reference?

Very interesting that you're not answering Angelo's question - don't want to criticise your SDLP buddy - MM.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:45:19 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )

100%

He consistently plays political football with the troubles.

Wheeling out Paul Quinn at election time but then denigrating innocent victims of the troubles when he has challenged on how his government are failing in their commitments to the Stormont government.

I made the point a few weeks ago. Nationalists/republicans of any background - moderate/pacifist/pro force - it does not matter what your beliefs are in that regard - should all be utterly appalled and the crass and callous way in which the establishment parties of the FS consistently try to demean and degrade the struggles of catholics in the O6. They will regularly wheel out a Mairia Cahill or a Paul Quinn to snipe at a political rival but when it comes to victims on the nationalist/republican side they appoint a head RUC man who quashed the Glenanne Gang investigation as head of their police force. They actively thwart the McAnespie family in their quest for justice. They covered up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and have no appetite to ever get justice for the largest terrorist atrocity in their state.

TBF it's mainly a FG tactic but Martin is even worse than FG in this regard, he's as republican as Edwin Poots and hopefully victims groups of the north shame him into an unreserved apology for those utterly disgraceful comments yesterday.

You have Rossfan and Dublin7 telling you that SF are the barrier to an United Ireland but the likes of FG and Michael Martin will do everything in their power to actively prevent it from happening.

You don't seem to understand that Paul Quinn and Maria Cahill are nationalist victims. Maybe they're are just not the right type of victims?

I understand they are victims but you don't seem to grasp that Martin uses them as political footballs while his government actively thwart the McAnespire family in their own attempts for justice.

Did you find his comments appropriate yesterday?

So he shouldn't talk about Maria Cahill or Paul Quinn? Have you got a list of victims he should talk about for reference?

Very interesting that you're not answering Angelo's question - don't want to criticise your SDLP buddy - MM.

He doesn't like it when it is put up to him. He can't take it. He goes round and round in circles.
I have no love for MM, never met him and he's not my buddy.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:49:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 10:29:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )

100%

He consistently plays political football with the troubles.

Wheeling out Paul Quinn at election time but then denigrating innocent victims of the troubles when he has challenged on how his government are failing in their commitments to the Stormont government.

I made the point a few weeks ago. Nationalists/republicans of any background - moderate/pacifist/pro force - it does not matter what your beliefs are in that regard - should all be utterly appalled and the crass and callous way in which the establishment parties of the FS consistently try to demean and degrade the struggles of catholics in the O6. They will regularly wheel out a Mairia Cahill or a Paul Quinn to snipe at a political rival but when it comes to victims on the nationalist/republican side they appoint a head RUC man who quashed the Glenanne Gang investigation as head of their police force. They actively thwart the McAnespie family in their quest for justice. They covered up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and have no appetite to ever get justice for the largest terrorist atrocity in their state.

TBF it's mainly a FG tactic but Martin is even worse than FG in this regard, he's as republican as Edwin Poots and hopefully victims groups of the north shame him into an unreserved apology for those utterly disgraceful comments yesterday.

You have Rossfan and Dublin7 telling you that SF are the barrier to an United Ireland but the likes of FG and Michael Martin will do everything in their power to actively prevent it from happening.

You don't seem to understand that Paul Quinn and Maria Cahill are nationalist victims. Maybe they're are just not the right type of victims?

I understand they are victims but you don't seem to grasp that Martin uses them as political footballs while his government actively thwart the McAnespire family in their own attempts for justice.

Did you find his comments appropriate yesterday?

So he shouldn't talk about Maria Cahill or Paul Quinn? Have you got a list of victims he should talk about for reference?

So you think Mairia Cahill and Paul Quinn are more deserving of justice than say the family of Majella O'Hare - a 12 year old girl shot in the back over 40 years ago by a British soldier?

I never heard Michael Martin look for justice for her but he is happy to wheel out selective victims and use them to score political points.

You're every bit as nasty and cynical as Martin. Maybe go and tell the families of victims of the British state terrorism on this island why Paul Quinn and Mairia Cahill deserve their case heard more.

Absolutely vile stuff from you as per usual.

Everyone deserves justice. No matter who they are. The IRA, The British and Irish governments, Loyalists all need to come forward, give the evidence of what they know even if it incriminates them and help deliver the justice.
SF could actually take the lead on this if they wanted.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 11:04:53 AM
Trailer, the Taoiseach just shouted down a woman who was speaking on behalf of 3,500 bereaved relatives purely because he mistakenly believed these victims weren't exclusively made up of the useful ones that he likes to talk about. You'd think that you'd have more to say about that than "ah I'm not his buddy" and that "SF should take the lead" on victims.

Why the F**K should SF take the lead on victims? The issue of victims was addressed in 2014 in the Stormont House Agreement. The Irish and British Governments signed up to that international agreement and to those commitments regarding victims within it. The Irish Government are dragging their feet on seeing those commitments enacted and the British Government is actively working to renege on them. The 'New Decade New Approach' document produced just last year on the re-establishment of the Assembly, a document negotiated with the two governments, included a supposedly binding commitment to enacting the Stormont House Agreement IN FULL. So it is the two governments who need to take the lead. Any suggestion to the contrary is just ill informed, cheap, opportunistic, cold, cynical point scoring.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:49:18 AM


Everyone deserves justice. No matter who they are. The IRA, The British and Irish governments, Loyalists all need to come forward, give the evidence of what they know even if it incriminates them and help deliver the justice.
SF could actually take the lead on this if they wanted.

So would you agree that Martin's comments were disgraceful yesterday in response to a fair question and were grossly offensive and insulting to victims of the troubles?

What do you think gives him the right to demean victims of the troubles like he does while selectively using other victims to score points against a political rival.

What is interesting is that you have had multiple opportunities now to condemn what Martin said but are unwilling to do so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 11:04:53 AM
Trailer, the Taoiseach just shouted down a woman who was speaking on behalf of 3,500 bereaved relatives purely because he mistakenly believed these victims weren't exclusively made up of the useful ones that he likes to talk about. You'd think that you'd have more to say about that than "ah I'm not his buddy" and that "SF should take the lead" on victims.

Why the F**K should SF take the lead on victims? The issue of victims was addressed in 2014 in the Stormont House Agreement. The Irish and British Governments signed up to that international agreement and to those commitments regarding victims within it. The Irish Government are dragging their feet on seeing those commitments enacted and the British Government is actively working to renege on them. The 'New Decade New Approach' document produced just last year on the re-establishment of the Assembly, a document negotiated with the two governments, included a supposedly binding commitment to enacting the Stormont House Agreement IN FULL. So it is the two governments who need to take the lead. Any suggestion to the contrary is just ill informed, cheap, opportunistic, cold, cynical point scoring.

There were some terrible atrocities commited by terrorist groups on both sides during the troubles that have never been answered for. Individuals/parties on both sides of the conflict have covered up incidents and done everything they can to ensure the truth doesn't come out.

South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 12:19:53 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

Skimming past the "terrorists" terminology, SF have indeed been calling for such a mechanism, and have been doing so for many years. However, putting structures in place for victims cannot and should not be led by political parties. It has to be government led. That is why Mairead Farrell stood in the Dáil yesterday, on behalf of 3,500 bereaved relatives, and asked Micheal Martin if he would work to enact the proposals set out in a 2014 Agreement that the Irish Government already signed up to and committed to six years ago now. What sort of Taoiseach gets angry and abusive to someone speaking on behalf of 3,500 bereaved relatives when all she asked was that he meet up with their victims group and that he work towards enacting what his government, by international agreement, are committed to working towards?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on February 04, 2021, 12:55:26 PM
It will never happen, SF have no interest in it either. Do you think Gerry Adams for example is going to tell you about his part in the armed conflict for example ? Too many skeletons in cupboards, for the Brits & republicans, do you think every IRA informer or double agent was uncovered ? No chance. It's all too messy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:45:19 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 04, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
Michael Martin is very unimpressive as Taoiseach on many levels. As a "northerner " not only do I feel he has no empathy or understanding of the north, he's actually antagonistic to the northern "Irish" , as if he appears to fear a United ireland. The apparent link with the SDLP is bizarre as there appears to be no substance or strategy behind this. It's about time that "Irish " people on the whole island got together to set out a framework for a New Ireland engaging with unionism from the very start( even if unionists will be reluctant to engage, weight of "Irish" numbers can drive the solution )

100%

He consistently plays political football with the troubles.

Wheeling out Paul Quinn at election time but then denigrating innocent victims of the troubles when he has challenged on how his government are failing in their commitments to the Stormont government.

I made the point a few weeks ago. Nationalists/republicans of any background - moderate/pacifist/pro force - it does not matter what your beliefs are in that regard - should all be utterly appalled and the crass and callous way in which the establishment parties of the FS consistently try to demean and degrade the struggles of catholics in the O6. They will regularly wheel out a Mairia Cahill or a Paul Quinn to snipe at a political rival but when it comes to victims on the nationalist/republican side they appoint a head RUC man who quashed the Glenanne Gang investigation as head of their police force. They actively thwart the McAnespie family in their quest for justice. They covered up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and have no appetite to ever get justice for the largest terrorist atrocity in their state.

TBF it's mainly a FG tactic but Martin is even worse than FG in this regard, he's as republican as Edwin Poots and hopefully victims groups of the north shame him into an unreserved apology for those utterly disgraceful comments yesterday.

You have Rossfan and Dublin7 telling you that SF are the barrier to an United Ireland but the likes of FG and Michael Martin will do everything in their power to actively prevent it from happening.

You don't seem to understand that Paul Quinn and Maria Cahill are nationalist victims. Maybe they're are just not the right type of victims?

I understand they are victims but you don't seem to grasp that Martin uses them as political footballs while his government actively thwart the McAnespire family in their own attempts for justice.

Did you find his comments appropriate yesterday?

So he shouldn't talk about Maria Cahill or Paul Quinn? Have you got a list of victims he should talk about for reference?

Very interesting that you're not answering Angelo's question - don't want to criticise your SDLP buddy - MM.

He doesn't like it when it is put up to him. He can't take it. He goes round and round in circles.
I have no love for MM, never met him and he's not my buddy.

Lol, he's not my buddy. SDLP/FF buddies alright.

Again more deflection from the question.

Telling but not surprising.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 01:04:06 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 04, 2021, 12:55:26 PM
It will never happen, SF have no interest in it either. Do you think Gerry Adams for example is going to tell you about his part in the armed conflict for example ? Too many skeletons in cupboards, for the Brits & republicans, do you think every IRA informer or double agent was uncovered ? No chance. It's all too messy
I agree it will be messy for all involved and part of me thinks SF only call for it knowing full well that the other side have much more to lose and will therefore never consent
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 01:07:14 PM
Spot on General.
They'll all wait till all the participants have passed away as far too many murky secrets all round.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 01:24:22 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?

I'd say the Provos had more integrity than the old IRA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 01:42:22 PM
This whole victim and reconciliation process by all parties is a complete charade. It's all about buying time. Push the process down the road. SF, the British Government, The Irish Government are all complicit. They are just drawing the whole process out for as long as possible until the relatives die. It's simple. Look at the TV every time one of these cases makes it to court. The age of people. They're all in their latter years.
People are deluded if you think SF, the two governments or anyone else involved for that matter care one iota about victims. Could you imagine the panic within SF if the two governments started to release information around the activities that they got up to. Imagine if the British government and the SAS started to release the information around Loughgall for example and whose doorstep that would lead too. That's just one example of 100s of possible examples. So SF have no interest in truth. Neither do the two governments.

So yes MM was out of line but it's just another example of another act that all the major players are acting out. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 01:04:06 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 04, 2021, 12:55:26 PM
It will never happen, SF have no interest in it either. Do you think Gerry Adams for example is going to tell you about his part in the armed conflict for example ? Too many skeletons in cupboards, for the Brits & republicans, do you think every IRA informer or double agent was uncovered ? No chance. It's all too messy
I agree it will be messy for all involved and part of me thinks SF only call for it knowing full well that the other side have much more to lose and will therefore never consent

Was Mc Guinness at the Bloody Sunday tribunal?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?

Which IRA are you talking about?

The good IRA or the bad IRA?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 01:52:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 01:42:22 PM
This whole victim and reconciliation process by all parties is a complete charade. It's all about buying time. Push the process down the road. SF, the British Government, The Irish Government are all complicit. They are just drawing the whole process out for as long as possible until the relatives die. It's simple. Look at the TV every time one of these cases makes it to court. The age of people. They're all in their latter years.
People are deluded if you think SF, the two governments or anyone else involved for that matter care one iota about victims. Could you imagine the panic within SF if the two governments started to release information around the activities that they got up to. Imagine if the British government and the SAS started to release the information around Loughgall for example and whose doorstep that would lead too. That's just one example of 100s of possible examples. So SF have no interest in truth. Neither do the two governments.

So yes MM was out of line but it's just another example of another act that all the major players are acting out.

Amazing when asked to comment on MM your post includes more references to SF than the man who should be in the firing line.

The main establishment parties in the Free State have most to lose as they covered up the biggest terrorist atrocity in their own state because the British State was involved. SF regularly regularly have the mudslingers out at them so I can't see them being anywhere near as worried as the Free State establishment or British governments would be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 01:52:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 04, 2021, 01:42:22 PM
This whole victim and reconciliation process by all parties is a complete charade. It's all about buying time. Push the process down the road. SF, the British Government, The Irish Government are all complicit. They are just drawing the whole process out for as long as possible until the relatives die. It's simple. Look at the TV every time one of these cases makes it to court. The age of people. They're all in their latter years.
People are deluded if you think SF, the two governments or anyone else involved for that matter care one iota about victims. Could you imagine the panic within SF if the two governments started to release information around the activities that they got up to. Imagine if the British government and the SAS started to release the information around Loughgall for example and whose doorstep that would lead too. That's just one example of 100s of possible examples. So SF have no interest in truth. Neither do the two governments.

So yes MM was out of line but it's just another example of another act that all the major players are acting out.

Amazing when asked to comment on MM your post includes more references to SF than the man who should be in the firing line.

The main establishment parties in the Free State have most to lose as they covered up the biggest terrorist atrocity in their own state because the British State was involved. SF regularly regularly have the mudslingers out at them so I can't see them being anywhere near as worried as the Free State establishment or British governments would be.

Sucks doesn't it Angelo. A load of ex-IRA members are members of SF. Many in high office. They're just gonna have to suck it up. They can't be commemorating IRA activities and operations and then want to disown it when it comes to people searching for the truth. They can't have it both ways and unless they come forward and start to explain what went on then they must live with this "mud slinging" or as others call it "asking for the truth"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?

Which IRA are you talking about?

The good IRA or the bad IRA?

There are alot of offshoots/groups from the original 1919 version aren't there. I'd struggle to name them all to be honest. To keep it simple I would describe the IRA, Provsional IRA etc. and all the other versions formed from the 1970s onwards as terrorist organisations. I can see why they were originally formed to help people in the early days,no one would object to that, but somewhere along the way that changed and you ended up with organisations launching bombing campaigns against innocent people. How would you describe them?   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 02:18:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?

Which IRA are you talking about?

The good IRA or the bad IRA?

There are alot of offshoots/groups from the original 1919 version aren't there. I'd struggle to name them all to be honest. To keep it simple I would describe the IRA, Provsional IRA etc. and all the other versions formed from the 1970s onwards as terrorist organisations. I can see why they were originally formed to help people in the early days,no one would object to that, but somewhere along the way that changed and you ended up with organisations launching bombing campaigns against innocent people. How would you describe them?

So the Old IRA weren't a terrorist organisation too? What about the 1916 Volunteers? Terrorists?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 02:28:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?

Which IRA are you talking about?

The good IRA or the bad IRA?

There are alot of offshoots/groups from the original 1919 version aren't there. I'd struggle to name them all to be honest. To keep it simple I would describe the IRA, Provsional IRA etc. and all the other versions formed from the 1970s onwards as terrorist organisations. I can see why they were originally formed to help people in the early days,no one would object to that, but somewhere along the way that changed and you ended up with organisations launching bombing campaigns against innocent people. How would you describe them?

You worded that very well indeed - typical Fianna Gael.

So the 'old' IRA were noble warriors etc. etc.

People in the north won't be taking lectures from the likes of you.

When the comparsion is made between the two, the free staters soon trip over themselves with the classic 'but that was different...blah, blah blah.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 03:28:07 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 02:28:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?

Which IRA are you talking about?

The good IRA or the bad IRA?

There are alot of offshoots/groups from the original 1919 version aren't there. I'd struggle to name them all to be honest. To keep it simple I would describe the IRA, Provsional IRA etc. and all the other versions formed from the 1970s onwards as terrorist organisations. I can see why they were originally formed to help people in the early days,no one would object to that, but somewhere along the way that changed and you ended up with organisations launching bombing campaigns against innocent people. How would you describe them?

You worded that very well indeed - typical Fianna Gael.

So the 'old' IRA were noble warriors etc. etc.

People in the north won't be taking lectures from the likes of you.

When the comparsion is made between the two, the free staters soon trip over themselves with the classic 'but that was different...blah, blah blah.

It's easy to see dublin7 is one of those who would have backed the ethnic cleansing his IRA committed down in West Cork, backed the 100s they disappeared during the War of Independence, backed the scores of RIC officers they murdered in that time, backed all the civilians killed during the Rising, backed the Civil war, the tit for tat killings, gunning gov ministers on their way to church, taking prisoners out of their cells in reprisals, tying them to a tree and detonating a landmine beside them.

The good old IRA, the portraits of Dev and Collins hanging in their Free State governments.

The double standards of the shameful free state establishment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 04:01:39 PM
Shinners acting the maggots

https://m.independent.ie/news/ceann-comhairle-sean-o-fearghail-demands-apology-from-sinn-fein-for-outrageous-email-40051914.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on February 04, 2021, 04:42:26 PM
Be interesting when the SF get into government in the south the reaction to getting there hands on the information to Dublin/Monaghan etc will be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 04:55:27 PM
Quote from: pbat on February 04, 2021, 04:42:26 PM
Be interesting when the SF get into government in the south the reaction to getting there hands on the information to Dublin/Monaghan etc will be.

This will be the acid test.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 04:56:41 PM
And the Quinn, Oliver, Kelly,  Sheehan, Clerkin, McCabe (Gerry), Quaid, Stack, Corcoran, Donaldson..........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 04:58:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 04:56:41 PM
And the Quinn, Oliver, Kelly,  Sheehan, Clerkin, McCabe (Gerry), Quaid, Stack, Corcoran, Donaldson..........

I should clarify I mean how they will act once they have access to the files as it were and not in relation to one specific incident.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 05:00:21 PM
They'll be part of a Coalition and won't be let near the Justice Department.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 04:56:41 PM
And the Quinn, Oliver, Kelly,  Sheehan, Clerkin, McCabe (Gerry), Quaid, Stack, Corcoran, Donaldson..........

I think they have that, already (at every election) spurred on by certain newspaper and news outlets etc. and it doesn't seem to be doing them much harm. 

People see through all that, especially at election time and are more astute than they're given credit for.

Ironically after the elections are over, from that night on all these names are hardly mentioned (apart from their families obviously).  Fianna Gael use them, then forget about them to the next election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 05:32:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 02:28:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?

Which IRA are you talking about?

The good IRA or the bad IRA?

There are alot of offshoots/groups from the original 1919 version aren't there. I'd struggle to name them all to be honest. To keep it simple I would describe the IRA, Provsional IRA etc. and all the other versions formed from the 1970s onwards as terrorist organisations. I can see why they were originally formed to help people in the early days,no one would object to that, but somewhere along the way that changed and you ended up with organisations launching bombing campaigns against innocent people. How would you describe them?

You worded that very well indeed - typical Fianna Gael.

So the 'old' IRA were noble warriors etc. etc.

People in the north won't be taking lectures from the likes of you.

When the comparsion is made between the two, the free staters soon trip over themselves with the classic 'but that was different...blah, blah blah.

Look if you want to go back to 1916 and call them terrorists go ahead. You asked my opinion and for me the IRA were terrorists. I don't see how you can call them anything else.

In terms of the truth and reconciliation SF claim to want does anybody seriously think Gerry Adams for example would stand up and give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth or do you think he would continue to deny he had any role in the IRA?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on February 04, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 05:00:21 PM
They'll be part of a Coalition and won't be let near the Justice Department.

If there is a coalition they will be largest party so will have choice of departments.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:08:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 08:28:01 PM
What an absolute guttersnipe of a politician Michael Martin is.

https://twitter.com/Farrell_Mairead/status/1356991206484492288
According to your own logic what Micheal Martin said there is perfectly fine

The Gibraltar Mairead Farrell was involved in a war, according to Sinn Fein/IRA

Therefore, according to the Sinn Fein/IRA logic, also your logic, it was a perfectly legitimate kill by the Brits

Now you and SF are backtracking

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:16:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
Angelo and Mairead Farrell TD now using Farrell's aunt as a political football

SF hypocrisy never sleeps
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:24:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 11, 2020, 12:22:37 PM

At the time the assassination of the Gibraltar 3 was celebrated and applauded by British politicians and media, it was and still is  accepted by the british state as a legitimate kill , but never did they recognise that those killed were soldiers of a kind.
Time to move on from the blame game,  claiming God's on my side and your side should wear the sackcloth and ashes.
Presumably this applies to Bloody Sunday too

Mad how far you can push "nationalists" in the name of logic, isn't it

All this is very interesting because SF now draw a clear distinction between PIRA acts in which civilians died and in which Brits died - because they saw the Brits as part of a conflict, a war in other words - their words

Yet Mairead Farrell TD and SF now refuse to draw any distinction between the killing of an active service PIRA member by the Brits - which remember, according to their own logic, was legitimate - and a group of civilian workmen slaughtered by the PIRA

SF are now saying that there was no difference between the killing of an active combatant of the killing of a civilian 

Which is total hypocrisy given their previous stance on different acts committed by the PIRA and their willingness to defend some of them but not others - because SF see some victims, bit not others, as legitimate

They have now directly reversed this stance

And in doing so, they are now saying that every act they ever committed was illegitimate

SF, masters of exclusive eternal victimhood - and supreme hypocrisy and stupidity
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 06:31:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 04:56:41 PM
And the Quinn, Oliver, Kelly,  Sheehan, Clerkin, McCabe (Gerry), Quaid, Stack, Corcoran, Donaldson..........

Odd you don't care about the Dublin Monaghan bombing victims.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 06:33:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:16:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
Angelo and Mairead Farrell TD now using Farrell's aunt as a political football

SF hypocrisy never sleeps

You're the only one who referenced the death of Mairead Farrell.

It's not surprising to see a shoneen like yourself back up a corrupt weasel like Martin and how he uses victims to score political points.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 06:34:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 05:32:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 02:28:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?

Which IRA are you talking about?

The good IRA or the bad IRA?

There are alot of offshoots/groups from the original 1919 version aren't there. I'd struggle to name them all to be honest. To keep it simple I would describe the IRA, Provsional IRA etc. and all the other versions formed from the 1970s onwards as terrorist organisations. I can see why they were originally formed to help people in the early days,no one would object to that, but somewhere along the way that changed and you ended up with organisations launching bombing campaigns against innocent people. How would you describe them?

You worded that very well indeed - typical Fianna Gael.

So the 'old' IRA were noble warriors etc. etc.

People in the north won't be taking lectures from the likes of you.

When the comparsion is made between the two, the free staters soon trip over themselves with the classic 'but that was different...blah, blah blah.

Look if you want to go back to 1916 and call them terrorists go ahead. You asked my opinion and for me the IRA were terrorists. I don't see how you can call them anything else.

In terms of the truth and reconciliation SF claim to want does anybody seriously think Gerry Adams for example would stand up and give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth or do you think he would continue to deny he had any role in the IRA?

What a brazen hypocrite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:24:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 11, 2020, 12:22:37 PM

At the time the assassination of the Gibraltar 3 was celebrated and applauded by British politicians and media, it was and still is  accepted by the british state as a legitimate kill , but never did they recognise that those killed were soldiers of a kind.
Time to move on from the blame game,  claiming God's on my side and your side should wear the sackcloth and ashes.
Presumably this applies to Bloody Sunday too

Mad how far you can push "nationalists" in the name of logic, isn't it

All this is very interesting because SF now draw a clear distinction between PIRA acts in which civilians died and in which Brits died - because they saw the Brits as part of a conflict, a war in other words - their words

Yet Mairead Farrell TD and SF now refuse to draw any distinction between the killing of an active service PIRA member by the Brits - which remember, according to their own logic, was legitimate - and a group of civilian workmen slaughtered by the PIRA

SF are now saying that there was no difference between the killing of an active combatant of the killing of a civilian 

Which is total hypocrisy given their previous stance on different acts committed by the PIRA and their willingness to defend some of them but not others - because SF see some victims, bit not others, as legitimate

They have now directly reversed this stance

And in doing so, they are now saying that every act they ever committed was illegitimate

SF, masters of exclusive eternal victimhood - and supreme hypocrisy and stupidity

Your beloved Michael Martin, bought and sold for by property developers, showed us once again yesterday the absolute contempt he has for both Northern nationalists and victims of the troubles.

You really need to tackle your hypocrisies someday.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:37:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 06:33:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:16:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
Angelo and Mairead Farrell TD now using Farrell's aunt as a political football

SF hypocrisy never sleeps

You're the only one who referenced the death of Mairead Farrell.

It's not surprising to see a shoneen like yourself back up a corrupt weasel like Martin and how he uses victims to score political points.
Whose death do you think Mairead Farrell TD was referencing when she said she was a bereaved relative of the Troubles?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:24:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 11, 2020, 12:22:37 PM

At the time the assassination of the Gibraltar 3 was celebrated and applauded by British politicians and media, it was and still is  accepted by the british state as a legitimate kill , but never did they recognise that those killed were soldiers of a kind.
Time to move on from the blame game,  claiming God's on my side and your side should wear the sackcloth and ashes.
Presumably this applies to Bloody Sunday too

Mad how far you can push "nationalists" in the name of logic, isn't it

All this is very interesting because SF now draw a clear distinction between PIRA acts in which civilians died and in which Brits died - because they saw the Brits as part of a conflict, a war in other words - their words

Yet Mairead Farrell TD and SF now refuse to draw any distinction between the killing of an active service PIRA member by the Brits - which remember, according to their own logic, was legitimate - and a group of civilian workmen slaughtered by the PIRA

SF are now saying that there was no difference between the killing of an active combatant of the killing of a civilian 

Which is total hypocrisy given their previous stance on different acts committed by the PIRA and their willingness to defend some of them but not others - because SF see some victims, bit not others, as legitimate

They have now directly reversed this stance

And in doing so, they are now saying that every act they ever committed was illegitimate

SF, masters of exclusive eternal victimhood - and supreme hypocrisy and stupidity

Your beloved Michael Martin, bought and sold for by property developers, showed us once again yesterday the absolute contempt he has for both Northern nationalists and victims of the troubles.

You really need to tackle your hypocrisies someday.
All you have in response when your and SF's total hypocrisy is called out is bluster

Laughable

You and SF draw a distinction between the deaths of Brits and the deaths of civilians at the hands of the PIRA?

You do, don't you?

So why are SF now obliterating that distinction?

You said it was a war, don't you?

You cry no tears for Brits who were killed by the PIRA

But then you're a total hypocrite as regards active PIRA service members who were killed by the Brits

Laughable





Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:46:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:24:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 11, 2020, 12:22:37 PM

At the time the assassination of the Gibraltar 3 was celebrated and applauded by British politicians and media, it was and still is  accepted by the british state as a legitimate kill , but never did they recognise that those killed were soldiers of a kind.
Time to move on from the blame game,  claiming God's on my side and your side should wear the sackcloth and ashes.
Presumably this applies to Bloody Sunday too

Mad how far you can push "nationalists" in the name of logic, isn't it

All this is very interesting because SF now draw a clear distinction between PIRA acts in which civilians died and in which Brits died - because they saw the Brits as part of a conflict, a war in other words - their words

Yet Mairead Farrell TD and SF now refuse to draw any distinction between the killing of an active service PIRA member by the Brits - which remember, according to their own logic, was legitimate - and a group of civilian workmen slaughtered by the PIRA

SF are now saying that there was no difference between the killing of an active combatant of the killing of a civilian 

Which is total hypocrisy given their previous stance on different acts committed by the PIRA and their willingness to defend some of them but not others - because SF see some victims, bit not others, as legitimate

They have now directly reversed this stance

And in doing so, they are now saying that every act they ever committed was illegitimate

SF, masters of exclusive eternal victimhood - and supreme hypocrisy and stupidity

Your beloved Michael Martin, bought and sold for by property developers, showed us once again yesterday the absolute contempt he has for both Northern nationalists and victims of the troubles.

You really need to tackle your hypocrisies someday.
Oh, and who was to blame for Priory Hall, the biggest property disaster in the history of the state?

That's right, Tom McFeely, a hunger striker  ;D



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 07:02:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:46:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:24:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 11, 2020, 12:22:37 PM

At the time the assassination of the Gibraltar 3 was celebrated and applauded by British politicians and media, it was and still is  accepted by the british state as a legitimate kill , but never did they recognise that those killed were soldiers of a kind.
Time to move on from the blame game,  claiming God's on my side and your side should wear the sackcloth and ashes.
Presumably this applies to Bloody Sunday too

Mad how far you can push "nationalists" in the name of logic, isn't it

All this is very interesting because SF now draw a clear distinction between PIRA acts in which civilians died and in which Brits died - because they saw the Brits as part of a conflict, a war in other words - their words

Yet Mairead Farrell TD and SF now refuse to draw any distinction between the killing of an active service PIRA member by the Brits - which remember, according to their own logic, was legitimate - and a group of civilian workmen slaughtered by the PIRA

SF are now saying that there was no difference between the killing of an active combatant of the killing of a civilian 

Which is total hypocrisy given their previous stance on different acts committed by the PIRA and their willingness to defend some of them but not others - because SF see some victims, bit not others, as legitimate

They have now directly reversed this stance

And in doing so, they are now saying that every act they ever committed was illegitimate

SF, masters of exclusive eternal victimhood - and supreme hypocrisy and stupidity

Your beloved Michael Martin, bought and sold for by property developers, showed us once again yesterday the absolute contempt he has for both Northern nationalists and victims of the troubles.

You really need to tackle your hypocrisies someday.
Oh, and who was to blame for Priory Hall, the biggest property disaster in the history of the state?

That's right, Tom McFeely, a hunger striker  ;D

You're reeling Sid. You and guttersnipe Martin are cosy bedfellows
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 07:22:42 PM
Quote from: pbat on February 04, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 05:00:21 PM
They'll be part of a Coalition and won't be let near the Justice Department.

If there is a coalition they will be largest party so will have choice of departments.
Not necessarily as it will be subject to  negotiations in setting up a Coalition.
Assuming of course that the 14% that switched to SF between May 19 and Feb 20 stay on board plus the 3% extra in the last opinion poll.
That poll in a GE should give roughly
FG 48-50 seats
SF 46- 48
FF 30 -32
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 07:34:44 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 05:32:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 02:28:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 04, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
South Africa held a Truth and Reconciliation commission after apartheid ended which went some waying to dealing with the issues in their country. There doesn't seem to be any interest from any party to do something in this country. Instead we see victims used as political footballs by politicans (especially come elections) in both the north and the south
Correct me if I am wrong but have SF not been calling for one for years?

I don't know? Its not something they've made an issue of in the south anyway. I don't remember hearing about it as part of their election manifesto down here. It certainly wasn't an issue they or any other party brought up in the campaign

SF have been calling for an international independent truth commission for decades but guess what? The Free State, the Brits and unionism don't want it because what will show how northern nationalists were terrorised by the state while all three parties against this commission (Britsih state, Free State, Unionism) were either actively involved in it or sat on their hands and helped cover it up.

Do you really think FFG want the truth to come out about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? That they knew of British state involvement in the mass murder of their citizens and tried to suppress that information and thwart the investigation?

Sssshh Angelo, Dublin7 doesn't want to hear things like that - it doesn't suit his narrative.

His use of the word 'terrorist' is the give away.

How would you decscribe the IRA/UVF etc Would you call them freedom fighters?

Which IRA are you talking about?

The good IRA or the bad IRA?

There are alot of offshoots/groups from the original 1919 version aren't there. I'd struggle to name them all to be honest. To keep it simple I would describe the IRA, Provsional IRA etc. and all the other versions formed from the 1970s onwards as terrorist organisations. I can see why they were originally formed to help people in the early days,no one would object to that, but somewhere along the way that changed and you ended up with organisations launching bombing campaigns against innocent people. How would you describe them?

You worded that very well indeed - typical Fianna Gael.

So the 'old' IRA were noble warriors etc. etc.

People in the north won't be taking lectures from the likes of you.

When the comparsion is made between the two, the free staters soon trip over themselves with the classic 'but that was different...blah, blah blah.

Look if you want to go back to 1916 and call them terrorists go ahead. You asked my opinion and for me the IRA were terrorists. I don't see how you can call them anything else.

In terms of the truth and reconciliation SF claim to want does anybody seriously think Gerry Adams for example would stand up and give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth or do you think he would continue to deny he had any role in the IRA?

How Fianna Gael squirm when you bring up the 'old' IRA...hyprocrites  for all to see.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 07:44:40 PM
What are you talking about Marty? If you want to consider those involved in the 1916 rising terrorists go ahead. You still haven't said why you don't think the IRA was a terrorist organization.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 07:22:42 PM
Quote from: pbat on February 04, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 05:00:21 PM
They'll be part of a Coalition and won't be let near the Justice Department.

If there is a coalition they will be largest party so will have choice of departments.
Not necessarily as it will be subject to  negotiations in setting up a Coalition.
Assuming of course that the 14% that switched to SF between May 19 and Feb 20 stay on board plus the 3% extra in the last opinion poll.
That poll in a GE should give roughly
FG 48-50 seats
SF 46- 48
FF 30 -32

One thing in SF's favour at the last election was they only ran one candidate in most constituencies. Even Mary Lou didn't try to bring in a running mate even though she must have been certain she would get elected. That meant while FG/FF/Lab votes were split amongst their candidates there was only on SF candidate who in most cases topped the poll.

Big decision in the next election for Mary Lou. Does she run more candidates, which splits their vote and risk losing seats or go for it and potentially make them the biggest party in the next Dail
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 07:51:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:37:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 06:33:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:16:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.
Angelo and Mairead Farrell TD now using Farrell's aunt as a political football

SF hypocrisy never sleeps

You're the only one who referenced the death of Mairead Farrell.

It's not surprising to see a shoneen like yourself back up a corrupt weasel like Martin and how he uses victims to score political points.
Whose death do you think Mairead Farrell TD was referencing when she said she was a bereaved relative of the Troubles?
She was speaking on behalf of the 3,500 other bereaved relatives who signed the recent letter to him. Maybe you missed that bit. Did you miss the bit too where Martin refused to say he would even meet with the victims group they were represented by? Did you miss the bit where he refused to commit to the enactment of victims and survivors procedures as outlined in an international agreement that the Irish Government signed up to in 2014?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 07:44:40 PM
What are you talking about Marty? If you want to consider those involved in the 1916 rising terrorists go ahead. You still haven't said why you don't think the IRA was a terrorist organization.
You were asked if YOU consider the 1916 Vols and the Old IRA as terrorists. So again, do you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 08:28:29 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 07:44:40 PM
What are you talking about Marty? If you want to consider those involved in the 1916 rising terrorists go ahead. You still haven't said why you don't think the IRA was a terrorist organization.
You were asked if YOU consider the 1916 Vols and the Old IRA as terrorists. So again, do you?

They could be considered terrorists, yes. There are differences though. They occupied buildings and did their fighting against the British army. They didn't use car bombs as part of a long term campaign to target innocent people/business or detonate bombs in pubs full of innocent people. The Birmingham pub bombings (that saw innocent people jailed for it, while no one from the IRA has ever been prosecuted or admitted to it as far as I'm aware)or Omagh bombings were both carried out by the IRA. How could they be considered anything other than acts of terror?

As Marty won't answer my question, would you tell me why you don't consider the modern IRA terrorists?Also if you wouldn't mind answering If there was a truth and reconciliation commission do you think Gerry Adams would attend and continue to deny he was ever involved in the IRA?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 08:42:10 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 08:28:29 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 07:44:40 PM
What are you talking about Marty? If you want to consider those involved in the 1916 rising terrorists go ahead. You still haven't said why you don't think the IRA was a terrorist organization.
You were asked if YOU consider the 1916 Vols and the Old IRA as terrorists. So again, do you?

They could be considered terrorists, yes. There are differences though. They occupied buildings and did their fighting against the British army. They didn't use car bombs as part of a long term campaign to target innocent people/business or detonate bombs in pubs full of innocent people. The Birmingham pub bombings (that saw innocent people jailed for it, while no one from the IRA has ever been prosecuted or admitted to it as far as I'm aware)or Omagh bombings were both carried out by the IRA. How could they be considered anything other than acts of terror?

As Marty won't answer my question, would you tell me why you don't consider the modern IRA terrorists?Also if you wouldn't mind answering If there was a truth and reconciliation commission do you think Gerry Adams would attend and continue to deny he was ever involved in the IRA?
Do YOU consider them terrorists? And indeed there were differences between the Old IRA and PIRA. For instance, the Old IRA disappeared close to 200 (mostly innocent) people in 3 years. The PIRA disappeared 14 in 40 years. What does that tell you about the Old IRA and it's attitude to civilians? Does it hint to you that they were every bit as culpable (and more) at killing them as the PIRA were, perhaps?

By the way, the PIRA didn't bomb Omagh. That this needs explained to you says it all.

And no, I do not consider either the PIRA or Old IRA as terrorists. Like any armed group, in any armed conflict that people regard as legitimate, there were actions carried out by both the Old IRA and PIRA which were unjustified and deplorable. That doesn't mean their campaign as a whole was unjustified. For both IRA's, the OVERWHELMING majority of operations they carried out were directed against British forces and/or insfrastructure and both campaigns took place when no alternative was viable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 09:36:01 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on pretty much everything you said there. If the IRA didn't carry out the Omagh bombing who did? I thought it was the RIRA. Does that not count as the IRA?

Serious question you didn't answer. Do you believe Gerry Adams was never in the IRA? That's his story and he has to stick to it at this stage, but is there anyone who actually believes him?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on February 04, 2021, 10:29:35 PM
I just watched it,  a dreadful input from Martin, he just keeps digging his and FF's political grave with the same old gormless negative tactics. He's totally out of touch. FF have no political identity to distinguish itself from Fine Gael and Fine Gael do it much better.  If anyone is to go,  send Varadkar to the White House, keep that idiot in lockdown.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:36:44 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 08:42:10 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 08:28:29 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 04, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 07:44:40 PM
What are you talking about Marty? If you want to consider those involved in the 1916 rising terrorists go ahead. You still haven't said why you don't think the IRA was a terrorist organization.
You were asked if YOU consider the 1916 Vols and the Old IRA as terrorists. So again, do you?

They could be considered terrorists, yes. There are differences though. They occupied buildings and did their fighting against the British army. They didn't use car bombs as part of a long term campaign to target innocent people/business or detonate bombs in pubs full of innocent people. The Birmingham pub bombings (that saw innocent people jailed for it, while no one from the IRA has ever been prosecuted or admitted to it as far as I'm aware)or Omagh bombings were both carried out by the IRA. How could they be considered anything other than acts of terror?

As Marty won't answer my question, would you tell me why you don't consider the modern IRA terrorists?Also if you wouldn't mind answering If there was a truth and reconciliation commission do you think Gerry Adams would attend and continue to deny he was ever involved in the IRA?
Do YOU consider them terrorists? And indeed there were differences between the Old IRA and PIRA. For instance, the Old IRA disappeared close to 200 (mostly innocent) people in 3 years. The PIRA disappeared 14 in 40 years. What does that tell you about the Old IRA and it's attitude to civilians? Does it hint to you that they were every bit as culpable (and more) at killing them as the PIRA were, perhaps?

By the way, the PIRA didn't bomb Omagh. That this needs explained to you says it all.

And no, I do not consider either the PIRA or Old IRA as terrorists. Like any armed group, in any armed conflict that people regard as legitimate, there were actions carried out by both the Old IRA and PIRA which were unjustified and deplorable. That doesn't mean their campaign as a whole was unjustified. For both IRA's, the OVERWHELMING majority of operations they carried out were directed against British forces and/or insfrastructure and both campaigns took place when no alternative was viable.

You can't debate this. The murder of innocent people including children is abhorrent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on February 05, 2021, 06:32:06 PM
Will put this thread on LOCKED status for a few days.

Anybody that attempts to re-open the topic on another thread will be banned.

Permanently.

That includes references to what started the last outburst (Taoiseach's comments to SF member) and any references to the Troubles and the rights/wrongs of any conflict.

Everybody just take a few days away from the board - a few 2-day bans are in order as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 09, 2021, 12:09:32 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55997440

Mmm, this will be worth watching.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 09, 2021, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 09:36:01 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on pretty much everything you said there. If the IRA didn't carry out the Omagh bombing who did? I thought it was the RIRA. Does that not count as the IRA?

Serious question you didn't answer. Do you believe Gerry Adams was never in the IRA? That's his story and he has to stick to it at this stage, but is there anyone who actually believes him?
Omagh was the work of dissidents carried out after the GFA. The facts remain that the IRA in all its guises including the old IRA were involved in activities aimed at the over throw of the British state. If one was wrong then both were wrong to say otherwise is being hypercritical. Both effected change. However the rights and wrongs in both situations is much more complicated than the simple choice of right or wrong. You could argue that the actions of the old IRA directly led to the situation we are in today, their actions manifested in partition. But as I say that is a simplistic view, the reality much more complex.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 10, 2021, 02:28:15 PM
Lets hope this PPE order goes better than his first one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56013337 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56013337)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 12, 2021, 11:30:48 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56033300 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56033300)

All SF's good work of registering all those postal voters could be undone. No wonder they're critical.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 12, 2021, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 12, 2021, 11:30:48 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56033300 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56033300)

All SF's good work of registering all those postal voters could be undone. No wonder they're critical.

It's not just postal votes, its all votes and probably a good thing TBH.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: APM on February 12, 2021, 03:02:24 PM
I'd say the timing of this is frustrating for SF.  If you think about it, the protocol will mean the unionist population will be motivated to register.  Moreover, unionist movements, will be very motivated to run registration drives.  They will see the target of a unionist majority at the next assembly election to be able to vote down the protocol in 2024.  I'm not sure nationalists / others will be just as motivated as there will be some level of complacency and possible apathy also. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 12, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: APM on February 12, 2021, 03:02:24 PM
I'd say the timing of this is frustrating for SF.  If you think about it, the protocol will mean the unionist population will be motivated to register.  Moreover, unionist movements, will be very motivated to run registration drives.  They will see the target of a unionist majority at the next assembly election to be able to vote down the protocol in 2024.  I'm not sure nationalists / others will be just as motivated as there will be some level of complacency and possible apathy also.

Don't tell trailer that #hiddenagenda
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 12, 2021, 04:09:07 PM
Does overturning the Protocol not require Nationalist and Unionist consent?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 12, 2021, 10:28:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 12, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: APM on February 12, 2021, 03:02:24 PM
I'd say the timing of this is frustrating for SF.  If you think about it, the protocol will mean the unionist population will be motivated to register.  Moreover, unionist movements, will be very motivated to run registration drives.  They will see the target of a unionist majority at the next assembly election to be able to vote down the protocol in 2024.  I'm not sure nationalists / others will be just as motivated as there will be some level of complacency and possible apathy also.

Don't tell trailer that #hiddenagenda

No hidden agenda. We all know what SF have been up to in this regard.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: restorepride on February 12, 2021, 10:51:11 PM
Quote from: APM on February 12, 2021, 03:02:24 PM
I'd say the timing of this is frustrating for SF.  If you think about it, the protocol will mean the unionist population will be motivated to register.  Moreover, unionist movements, will be very motivated to run registration drives.  They will see the target of a unionist majority at the next assembly election to be able to vote down the protocol in 2024.  I'm not sure nationalists / others will be just as motivated as there will be some level of complacency and possible apathy also.
Unionist movements?  Are you talking about the UDA or UVF or LVF or exUDR, exRUC or what? 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 12, 2021, 10:28:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 12, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: APM on February 12, 2021, 03:02:24 PM
I'd say the timing of this is frustrating for SF.  If you think about it, the protocol will mean the unionist population will be motivated to register.  Moreover, unionist movements, will be very motivated to run registration drives.  They will see the target of a unionist majority at the next assembly election to be able to vote down the protocol in 2024.  I'm not sure nationalists / others will be just as motivated as there will be some level of complacency and possible apathy also.

Don't tell trailer that #hiddenagenda

No hidden agenda. We all know what SF have been up to in this regard.

Yeah, your agenda is not hidden at all. It's very transparent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 13, 2021, 09:21:10 AM
Quote from: APM on February 12, 2021, 03:02:24 PM
I'd say the timing of this is frustrating for SF.  If you think about it, the protocol will mean the unionist population will be motivated to register.  Moreover, unionist movements, will be very motivated to run registration drives.  They will see the target of a unionist majority at the next assembly election to be able to vote down the protocol in 2024.  I'm not sure nationalists / others will be just as motivated as there will be some level of complacency and possible apathy also.
Following on from your assertion, you'd have to imagine some sort of a (minor) split within Unionism, or am I just being ambitious? TUV will be hoping to make hay - a lot of discontent from loyalists. The protocol isn't going anywhere and the more Jim Allister reminds the DUP and the electorate, the more votes they haemorrhage to TUV and even UUP & Alliance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 13, 2021, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on February 13, 2021, 09:21:10 AM
Quote from: APM on February 12, 2021, 03:02:24 PM
I'd say the timing of this is frustrating for SF.  If you think about it, the protocol will mean the unionist population will be motivated to register.  Moreover, unionist movements, will be very motivated to run registration drives.  They will see the target of a unionist majority at the next assembly election to be able to vote down the protocol in 2024.  I'm not sure nationalists / others will be just as motivated as there will be some level of complacency and possible apathy also.
Following on from your assertion, you'd have to imagine some sort of a (minor) split within Unionism, or am I just being ambitious? TUV will be hoping to make hay - a lot of discontent from loyalists. The protocol isn't going anywhere and the more Jim Allister reminds the DUP and the electorate, the more votes they haemorrhage to TUV and even UUP & Alliance.

Seems to be that once the DUP saw the recent poll that the TUV were on 10 %, then they came up with their 5 point plan to try and get people back on side and get everyone to row in behind them.

The problem Allister has is that he's a one man band - probably the best/effective MLA at Stormont but the party seems limited in terms of anybody else coming forward.  Alisster would need to get a few more candiates in front of the camera before next year.  Alternative is will any DUP lads jump ship to the TUV if they think their seat is in trouble.

I think the DUP will use their 'don't let SF be the first minister' in our great year of 2021, so vote DUP.  How ironic would that be?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 13, 2021, 12:01:12 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 13, 2021, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on February 13, 2021, 09:21:10 AM
Quote from: APM on February 12, 2021, 03:02:24 PM
I'd say the timing of this is frustrating for SF.  If you think about it, the protocol will mean the unionist population will be motivated to register.  Moreover, unionist movements, will be very motivated to run registration drives.  They will see the target of a unionist majority at the next assembly election to be able to vote down the protocol in 2024.  I'm not sure nationalists / others will be just as motivated as there will be some level of complacency and possible apathy also.
Following on from your assertion, you'd have to imagine some sort of a (minor) split within Unionism, or am I just being ambitious? TUV will be hoping to make hay - a lot of discontent from loyalists. The protocol isn't going anywhere and the more Jim Allister reminds the DUP and the electorate, the more votes they haemorrhage to TUV and even UUP & Alliance.

Seems to be that once the DUP saw the recent poll that the TUV were on 10 %, then they came up with their 5 point plan to try and get people back on side and get everyone to row in behind them.

The problem Allister has is that he's a one man band - probably the best/effective MLA at Stormont but the party seems limited in terms of anybody else coming forward.  Alisster would need to get a few more candiates in front of the camera before next year.  Alternative is will any DUP lads jump ship to the TUV if they think their seat is in trouble.

I think the DUP will use their 'don't let SF be the first minister' in our great year of 2021, so vote DUP.  How ironic would that be?
I know, TUV haven't a lot going for them personnel-wise but then would that really be much of a hindrance? Considering loyalists happily vote for whatever mug the DUP put in front of them. Might have a few DUPers jump ship, maybe it's just me but TUV seem to have really jumped on the protocol bandwagon and seem to have a more active social media presence.

I imagine you're right re  playing the SF first minister card, inevitable call for unionist unity and entering pacts, UUP will predictably acquiesce.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:07:55 PM
The TUV would draw their voting base more from a Presbyterian background I'd imagine so if they do take off it could really eat into the DUP vote. Would be very interesting to see a fractured unionist vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on February 13, 2021, 01:47:48 PM
Despite being shafted by DUP's actions, the loyalist lemmings will still fall in behind party come election time at the first wave of butcher's apron and scaremongering about SF First Minister. Any wonder the thick as pigshit morons don't realise they're bringing reunification of our country closer every day with their shortsighted reactionary approach to anything that smells of equality... And it's absolutely beautiful to watch.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 19, 2021, 11:51:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

Im not sure how commemorations will go after Peggy McCourt debacle, he wasn't allowed into republican plot by SF as he wasn't active in IRA in last 5 years! But sure that means nobody will be going in going forward
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 19, 2021, 12:23:21 PM
Mad that some people actually take the Indo seriously. Surely nobody is stupid as to read the likes of that and not appreciate that they're being slapped in the face with undiluted propaganda?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 12:46:18 PM
https://wexfordtoday.com/2021/02/18/sinn-fein-under-fire-as-bombing-commemoration-cancelled/

Was also mentioned in the Examiner
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:00:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 12:46:18 PM
https://wexfordtoday.com/2021/02/18/sinn-fein-under-fire-as-bombing-commemoration-cancelled/

Was also mentioned in the Examiner

I can't imagine Wexford GAA are too impressed with their logo on the commemoration.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on February 19, 2021, 01:01:13 PM
If a politician or party organisation is stupid enough to put an official GAA county crest on their publicity material, they have more to be worrying about than newspapers' propaganda.

Morons.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 01:05:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 19, 2021, 12:23:21 PM
Mad that some people actually take the Indo seriously. Surely nobody is stupid as to read the likes of that and not appreciate that they're being slapped in the face with undiluted propaganda?
Are you saying it's untrue?

This was all over social media yesterday
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2021, 01:07:10 PM
And they want to be in government... running round commemorating people who took innocent civilians lives. Imagine a SF Taoiseach at PIRA commemoration.
OK, go on then hit me with a load of false equivalence and whataboutery.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 19, 2021, 01:12:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2021, 01:07:10 PM
And they want to be in government... running round commemorating people who took innocent civilians lives. Imagine a SF Taoiseach at PIRA commemoration.
OK, go on then hit me with a load of false equivalence and whataboutery.

Ok, I'll bite. I'm a SF/SDLP voter. Not SFs biggest fan in recent years with the direction the party is going, but isn't this the exact same as the Taoiseach attending an Easter rising commemoration? Go on, tell me I'm wrong because its a different time etc etc. We'll go round m circles and nobody will have changed their mind... 8)

For what it's worth, I think sensitivities should be respected regarding either event.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
The usual Free State trolls trying to twist the facts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 01:25:37 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration.

Ignore this troll.

He has been found out as a liar and we should leave it at that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:28:15 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration.
Ffs their links with the past has been well established at this stage. A re run of constant mud slinging at every election cycle has ensured that, I don't think it will make much difference at this stage
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 01:28:47 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration.
Looks like Sinn Fein are telling porkies here

Varadkar said the family did not support it and given the family were unequivocal 25 years ago about their hatred for the PIRA - they had no knowledge their son was involved and told SF/PIRA to stay away from the funeral - a request unheeded by SF/PIRA - it seems fairly obvious who is telling the truth here and who is not
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 01:29:34 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 19, 2021, 01:12:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2021, 01:07:10 PM
And they want to be in government... running round commemorating people who took innocent civilians lives. Imagine a SF Taoiseach at PIRA commemoration.
OK, go on then hit me with a load of false equivalence and whataboutery.

Ok, I'll bite. I'm a SF/SDLP voter. Not SFs biggest fan in recent years with the direction the party is going, but isn't this the exact same as the Taoiseach attending an Easter rising commemoration? Go on, tell me I'm wrong because its a different time etc etc. We'll go round m circles and nobody will have changed their mind... 8)

For what it's worth, I think sensitivities should be respected regarding either event.
Why would you even bother engaging these sanctimonious, holier than thou hypocrites. They're every bit as bad as the Unionists, who shamelessly commemorate acts of violence and their perpetrators, but choke on their own disgust when Irish Republicans remember their dead. It seems commemorating acts of violence and the organisations who perpetrated such violence is totally dependent on who committed it and when.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 01:48:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 01:28:47 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration.
Looks like Sinn Fein are telling porkies here

Varadkar said the family did not support it and given the family were unequivocal 25 years ago about their hatred for the PIRA - they had no knowledge their son was involved and told SF/PIRA to stay away from the funeral - a request unheeded by SF/PIRA - it seems fairly obvious who is telling the truth here and who is not

Former PIRA supporter Eoghan Sidney Harris contradicting himself again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 19, 2021, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2021, 01:07:10 PM
And they want to be in government... running round commemorating people who took innocent civilians lives. Imagine a SF Taoiseach at PIRA commemoration.
OK, go on then hit me with a load of false equivalence and whataboutery.

"OK, go on then, draw attention to the sheer hypocrisy that's jumping out of my post and slapping you across the face"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration.

I'd hazard a guess SF wouldn't be wasting much time or thoughts on the likes of yourself
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 02:27:24 PM
The gas thing about several posters here is that had they been born a few miles down the road they'd likely have been sending death threats to James McClean

Absolute balloons
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 02:29:12 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration.

I'd hazard a guess SF wouldn't be wasting much time or thoughts on the likes of yourself
That's a very sneering response

Shinnerbots do a mean line in sneering at anybody who doesn't think like them, ie. anybody who doesn't eulogise murderers

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 02:30:48 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration.

I'd hazard a guess SF wouldn't be wasting much time or thoughts on the likes of yourself

Thanks for the compliment.

SF should be worried though about the non party voters in the south. Those are the votes that will decide how many seats they get in the next election. Labour found out in the south that their popularity/vote share can quickly collapse from one election to the other
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 02:31:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 02:27:24 PM
The gas thing about several posters here is that had they been born a few miles down the road they'd likely have been sending death threats to James McClean

Absolute balloons

Coming from a chap who likes to comment on matters he hasn't the first notion about and then proceeds to mock the dead online.

Would you like to mock the death of their son to the O'Brien family or do you just feel man enough to do it online?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 02:31:33 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 02:30:48 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration.

I'd hazard a guess SF wouldn't be wasting much time or thoughts on the likes of yourself

Thanks for the compliment.

SF should be worried though about the non party voters in the south. Those are the votes that will decide how many seats they get in the next election. Labour found out in the south that their popularity/vote share can quickly collapse from one election to the other

I don't think SF would want a right wing troll like you voting for them though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 02:53:39 PM
SF seem to think trying to attract/keep 26 Co middle class voters is more important than honouring a Volunteer from the 26 from recent times..
That might well be construed as "hypocritical, sanctimonious or holier than thou" by its loyal followers in the 6 but obviously they weren't told of the different emphasis here 😉
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 03:14:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 02:53:39 PM
SF seem to think trying to attract/keep 26 Co middle class voters is more important than honouring a Volunteer from the 26 from recent times..
That might well be construed as "hypocritical, sanctimonious or holier than thou" by its loyal followers in the 6 but obviously they weren't told of the different emphasis here 😉
Tough dilemma for the Shinnerbots here

The party leadership continues to shit all over party members who want to commemorate murderers or simpletons who blew themselves up like Edward O'Brien

Therefore it would be hypocritical for these posters to continue to support the party

But to abandon the party would be sanctimonious and holier than thou

Their own words have trapped them in this dilemma

Their own words make them look like the fools they are
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 03:20:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 02:29:12 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
Even Sinn Féin think some Volunteers are less equal than others

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/commemoration-for-ira-bomber-supported-by-sinn-fein-branch-is-cancelled-40107930.html

I'm assuming you read the article and how it states it was cancelled at request of the family?

It was cancelled by the family, but should it have been organised in the first place and promoted by SF? I suppose it depends on how you view the IRA and their campaign in the UK
Did you not read the article either?

The online commemoration for Edward O'Brien, which was organised by Edward's father Miley and supported by Wexford Sinn Féin

I did. Did you read beyond Edward's father?

If a father wants to commemorate his son, that's one thing, but for a political party to publicly support this, then it is an issue for me. Sure it'l be a popular move with their own supporters but if they're looking to gain more votes in the next election in the south links like this will do them more harm than good with the undecided voters.

I can't believe someone along the way didn't tell them to take the Wexford GAA crest off the commemoration.

I'd hazard a guess SF wouldn't be wasting much time or thoughts on the likes of yourself
That's a very sneering response

Shinnerbots do a mean line in sneering at anybody who doesn't think like them, ie. anybody who doesn't eulogise murderers
I take you booed all the 1916 commemorations then...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
Of course it is. Absolute meltdown 😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: five points on February 19, 2021, 03:44:32 PM
Worth remembering those injured in the Aldwych bus bombing, particularly Dubliner Brendan Woolhead, who died later the same year while undergoing heroin detox with a doctor who was later struck off and branded "a danger to the public".

A grim story all round. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/doctor-linked-to-drug-detox-death-danger-to-the-public-26071349.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 04:43:53 PM
Twice now in the last couple of weeks I've been reported to mods by the anti-free speech Shinnerbots  ;D

I guess Sinn Fein/PIRA's presence on this board very much mirrors the PIRA itself - full of informers  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 04:50:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 04:43:53 PM
Twice now in the last couple of weeks I've been reported to mods by the anti-free speech Shinnerbots  ;D

I guess Sinn Fein/PIRA's presence on this board very much mirrors the PIRA itself - full of informers  ;D

We've now established that mocking the dead is a source of amusement to you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 04:53:05 PM
So Angelo admits he's the informer ;D

I suppose it's no wonder he loves the Russians too  ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 05:00:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 04:53:05 PM
So Angelo admits he's the informer ;D

I suppose it's no wonder he loves the Russians too  ;D

This is the same Angelo who complained about people reporting him to the Mods? Some would call that hypocritical and that's not at all like Angelo
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:01:12 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
They made inroads in 2020 with all their nice shiny new middle class voters.
They are now turning their backs on a Volunteer who paid the ultimate price as those shiny middle classes in the 26 don't like that sort of thing.
Its alright commemorating 98, Fenians, 1916, 1919-23 just like FF/FG.
Maybe for SF Charlie Kerins and others from the 40s and maybe Sabhat and O'Hanlon could be ok but none of those newer ones from the 26.

PS poor oul loyal Snapchat must be feeling a bit peeved as its more than Indo propaganda.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
I genuinely don't know how anyone could possibly vote for either party. Fair enough FF might have some decent people on the ground locally, but Martin is the most pathetic snake of a politician I've ever met, closely followed by Leo.

No respect for anyone that could support either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
I genuinely don't know how anyone could possibly vote for either party. Fair enough FF might have some decent people on the ground locally, but Martin is the most pathetic snake of a politician I've ever met, closely followed by Leo.

No respect for anyone that could support either.
More sneering and intolerance from a Shinnerbot

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on February 19, 2021, 05:35:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
I genuinely don't know how anyone could possibly vote for either party. Fair enough FF might have some decent people on the ground locally, but Martin is the most pathetic snake of a politician I've ever met, closely followed by Leo.

No respect for anyone that could support either.
More sneering and intolerance from a Shinnerbot

Sneering and intolerance. Give it a rest ffs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:37:05 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 19, 2021, 05:35:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
I genuinely don't know how anyone could possibly vote for either party. Fair enough FF might have some decent people on the ground locally, but Martin is the most pathetic snake of a politician I've ever met, closely followed by Leo.

No respect for anyone that could support either.
More sneering and intolerance from a Shinnerbot

Sneering and intolerance. Give it a rest ffs

"pathetic snakes"

"No respect for people who could support either"

It was textbook sneering and intolerance

That's the Sinn Fein way
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
It's almost sad how emotionally involved some people get on an anonymous message board, all because a few strangers don't agree with their politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
It's almost sad how emotionally involved some people get on an anonymous message board, all because a few strangers don't agree with their politics.

Expect Sidney bingo to start shortly.

Far right
Putin
Trump
Etc

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 06:28:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 05:00:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 04:53:05 PM
So Angelo admits he's the informer ;D

I suppose it's no wonder he loves the Russians too  ;D

This is the same Angelo who complained about people reporting him to the Mods? Some would call that hypocritical and that's not at all like Angelo

You seem to care an awful lot about me for a guy who claims to have me on ignore.

Bitter at how I've exposed you as a clueless and pathetic troll that you only are now resigned to attacking me from the sideline.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 19, 2021, 06:34:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:01:12 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
They made inroads in 2020 with all their nice shiny new middle class voters.
They are now turning their backs on a Volunteer who paid the ultimate price as those shiny middle classes in the 26 don't like that sort of thing.
Its alright commemorating 98, Fenians, 1916, 1919-23 just like FF/FG.
Maybe for SF Charlie Kerins and others from the 40s and maybe Sabhat and O'Hanlon could be ok but none of those newer ones from the 26.

PS poor oul loyal Snapchat must be feeling a bit peeved as its more than Indo propaganda.

SF turned their back on a Volunteer? I thought it was cancelled by the family.

Are you suggesting the Indo story isn't propaganda? Do you not recognise propaganda when you see it? You've a fairly comprehensive track record of posting links to Indo garbage here. I always just assumed you were knowingly spreading their propaganda for them but maybe you're too, eh... we'll say innocent... to know when a newspaper is trying to tell you what to think.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 06:38:34 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 19, 2021, 06:34:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:01:12 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
They made inroads in 2020 with all their nice shiny new middle class voters.
They are now turning their backs on a Volunteer who paid the ultimate price as those shiny middle classes in the 26 don't like that sort of thing.
Its alright commemorating 98, Fenians, 1916, 1919-23 just like FF/FG.
Maybe for SF Charlie Kerins and others from the 40s and maybe Sabhat and O'Hanlon could be ok but none of those newer ones from the 26.

PS poor oul loyal Snapchat must be feeling a bit peeved as its more than Indo propaganda.

SF turned their back on a Volunteer? I thought it was cancelled by the family.

Are you suggesting the Indo story isn't propaganda? Do you not recognise propaganda when you see it? You've a fairly comprehensive track record of posting links to Indo garbage here. I always just assumed you were knowingly spreading their propaganda for them but maybe you're too, eh... we'll say innocent... to know when a newspaper is trying to tell you what to think.

I'd agree with that.

Reckon you give Rossfan far too much credit.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
It's almost sad how emotionally involved some people get on an anonymous message board, all because a few strangers don't agree with their politics.
I know. Criticize SF at your own risk!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 06:43:31 PM
Dublin GAA fans and unionism have so much in common.

The Jackeens
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
I genuinely don't know how anyone could possibly vote for either party. Fair enough FF might have some decent people on the ground locally, but Martin is the most pathetic snake of a politician I've ever met, closely followed by Leo.

No respect for anyone that could support either.
More sneering and intolerance from a Shinnerbot
ah whatever. Out of interest, who do you vote for and why do you hate SF so much.

Can you really sit there and tell me that Pearse Doherty isn't worth 100 of any FF/FG politician? Or that Mary Lou make Martin and Varadkar look even worse than they already are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 07:15:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:37:05 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 19, 2021, 05:35:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
I genuinely don't know how anyone could possibly vote for either party. Fair enough FF might have some decent people on the ground locally, but Martin is the most pathetic snake of a politician I've ever met, closely followed by Leo.

No respect for anyone that could support either.
More sneering and intolerance from a Shinnerbot

Sneering and intolerance. Give it a rest ffs

"pathetic snakes"

"No respect for people who could support either"

It was textbook sneering and intolerance

That's the Sinn Fein way
How else would you describe Martin? And I'm just giving my honest opinion- no idea how people could possibly vote for FF/FG. Maybe you could enlighten me or go back to SF bashing. Up to yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 07:23:16 PM
SF didn't think much of Pearse's abilities when they annointed a private school educated ex FFr as leader.
All to attract nice shiny new middle class votes in the 26.
Pearse's accent too Nordie for that ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 07:38:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
I genuinely don't know how anyone could possibly vote for either party. Fair enough FF might have some decent people on the ground locally, but Martin is the most pathetic snake of a politician I've ever met, closely followed by Leo.

No respect for anyone that could support either.
More sneering and intolerance from a Shinnerbot
ah whatever. Out of interest, who do you vote for and why do you hate SF so much.

Can you really sit there and tell me that Pearse Doherty isn't worth 100 of any FF/FG politician? Or that Mary Lou make Martin and Varadkar look even worse than they already are.

What exactly has Mary Lou done that makes her better?  Being in opposition is easy. Just criticize everything the opposition do. She's never been in power or had to make any decisions to be judged. Unproven is what you can say about her leadership
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 07:48:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 07:38:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
I genuinely don't know how anyone could possibly vote for either party. Fair enough FF might have some decent people on the ground locally, but Martin is the most pathetic snake of a politician I've ever met, closely followed by Leo.

No respect for anyone that could support either.
More sneering and intolerance from a Shinnerbot
ah whatever. Out of interest, who do you vote for and why do you hate SF so much.

Can you really sit there and tell me that Pearse Doherty isn't worth 100 of any FF/FG politician? Or that Mary Lou make Martin and Varadkar look even worse than they already are.

What exactly has Mary Lou done that makes her better?  Being in opposition is easy. Just criticize everything the opposition do. She's never been in power or had to make any decisions to be judged. Unproven is what you can say about her leadership

Unproven > proven failure.

Martin is spineless politican mired in scandal, meek leadership, cretinous politicising of victims of the trouble and a history of taking bungs from property developer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 19, 2021, 09:41:13 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 19, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
It's great to see such concern for SF and their supporters. 

Probably means that they doing something right, and posing a threat to generations of gombeen FG/FF governments.

As you were.... 8)
I genuinely don't know how anyone could possibly vote for either party. Fair enough FF might have some decent people on the ground locally, but Martin is the most pathetic snake of a politician I've ever met, closely followed by Leo.

No respect for anyone that could support either.
More sneering and intolerance from a Shinnerbot
ah whatever. Out of interest, who do you vote for and why do you hate SF so much.

Can you really sit there and tell me that Pearse Doherty isn't worth 100 of any FF/FG politician? Or that Mary Lou make Martin and Varadkar look even worse than they already are.

pearse and eoin are their best and probably only ones I rate at high level along with o dowd. the rest are pish. mary lou will ruin party, why does she always look like shes about to fart? Lol. I think shes trying too hard to look state woman like. "You know people can say what they like but here in sinn féin we......." ffs shut up ye are making my head hurt along with motor mouth o neill
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 10:20:06 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
It's almost sad how emotionally involved some people get on an anonymous message board, all because a few strangers don't agree with their politics.
I know. Criticize SF at your own risk!!!
There's criticising SF and then there's the hysterical nonsense you get here from people who are displaying signs of personality disorders.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2021, 10:58:27 PM
General Lee.........Southern slave states....No similarities though.......

For me it says everything........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 11:13:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 10:20:06 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
It's almost sad how emotionally involved some people get on an anonymous message board, all because a few strangers don't agree with their politics.
I know. Criticize SF at your own risk!!!
There's criticising SF and then there's the hysterical nonsense you get here from people who are displaying signs of personality disorders.

I know. Don't even mention the responses if you dare question the IRA
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 11:28:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 11:13:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 10:20:06 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 19, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
It's almost sad how emotionally involved some people get on an anonymous message board, all because a few strangers don't agree with their politics.
I know. Criticize SF at your own risk!!!
There's criticising SF and then there's the hysterical nonsense you get here from people who are displaying signs of personality disorders.

I know. Don't even mention the responses if you dare question the IRA

Is that the Old IRA terrorists who were involved in ethnic cleansing of Protestants in Cork that you eulogise?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 20, 2021, 09:05:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool

It's not just Ireland where you'll find this curiosity. Go to Mongolia and you'll find Genghas khans head on money, bottles of alcohol etc, yet the man wiped out 10% of the entire human race.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on February 20, 2021, 10:09:30 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 20, 2021, 09:05:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool

It's not just Ireland where you'll find this curiosity. Go to Mongolia and you'll find Genghas khans head on money, bottles of alcohol etc, yet the man wiped out 10% of the entire human race.

Give GK a break, at least he was carbon neutral, has upwards of 20m descendents running amok in the world today
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on February 20, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2021, 10:58:27 PM
General Lee.........Southern slave states....No similarities though.......

For me it says everything........
Dukes of hazzard fan but keep trying
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on February 20, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool

Yep, but to quote an old cliché ' history is written by the Victors '

Look at the fire bombing of Dresden by the allies. Plenty of apologists for that including one or two on this forum i'd guess.
         
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 20, 2021, 12:47:19 PM
Quote from: tiempo on February 20, 2021, 10:09:30 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 20, 2021, 09:05:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool

It's not just Ireland where you'll find this curiosity. Go to Mongolia and you'll find Genghas khans head on money, bottles of alcohol etc, yet the man wiped out 10% of the entire human race.

Give GK a break, at least he was carbon neutral, has upwards of 20m descendents running amok in the world today

1 in every 200 men or something carry his Y chromosome, up to 1 in 10 in China.
He knew it wasn't for stirring tae with...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 20, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool

Yep, but to quote an old cliché ' history is written by the Victors '

Look at the fire bombing of Dresden by the allies. Plenty of apologists for that including one or two on this forum i'd guess.
         
You could say the same about Le Mon!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 01:41:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 20, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool

Yep, but to quote an old cliché ' history is written by the Victors '

Look at the fire bombing of Dresden by the allies. Plenty of apologists for that including one or two on this forum i'd guess.
         
You could say the same about Le Mon!

Or sectarian purge by the Old IRA in Dunmanway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on February 20, 2021, 06:53:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 20, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool

Yep, but to quote an old cliché ' history is written by the Victors '

Look at the fire bombing of Dresden by the allies. Plenty of apologists for that including one or two on this forum i'd guess.
         
You could say the same about Le Mon!

Yep, you're right. That's my point. Milltown has it 100% right. All murder of civilians is morally wrong and should be condemned.
         Unfortunately thats not the way it works. Morally unforgiveable acts like Dresden were justified ' for the greater good ' and to limit the loss of allied troops. Ditto Horishima and Nagasaki.
         The allies won. They got to say what was morally justified. They got to call out the Nazis for the cruel bast@rds they were and rightly so.
       If the axis had of won the reverse would be true. The genocide they perpetrated against the Jewish, gypsy, Slavic and other peoples would have brushed under the carpet
       Whats the lesson? Might is right and don't be on the loosing side?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on February 20, 2021, 09:13:26 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 20, 2021, 06:53:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 20, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool

Yep, but to quote an old cliché ' history is written by the Victors '

Look at the fire bombing of Dresden by the allies. Plenty of apologists for that including one or two on this forum i'd guess.
         
You could say the same about Le Mon!

Yep, you're right. That's my point. Milltown has it 100% right. All murder of civilians is morally wrong and should be condemned.
         Unfortunately thats not the way it works. Morally unforgiveable acts like Dresden were justified ' for the greater good ' and to limit the loss of allied troops. Ditto Horishima and Nagasaki.
         The allies won. They got to say what was morally justified. They got to call out the Nazis for the cruel bast@rds they were and rightly so.
       If the axis had of won the reverse would be true. The genocide they perpetrated against the Jewish, gypsy, Slavic and other peoples would have brushed under the carpet
       Whats the lesson? Might is right and don't be on the loosing side?

You all should brush up on your  understanding of WW2 history before offering glib references. But perhaps  that just exemplifies the  paucity of informed debate which burdens this thread  ;D

The London  blitz bombing  was a failed tactic in WW2 to begin with and in the end  managed to achieve the opposite of what was intended . The carpet bombing of German cities did not work for the Allies cause either, it was an expression of the madness of Bomber Harris.  It had no effect on the outcome of WW2.  It was a total waste of human and material resources. There was no justification for Dresden and  there was no military positive benefit either.
WW2 was won in all the other theatres , nothing was achieved militarily  by carpet bombing of civilian areas.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on February 20, 2021, 10:41:35 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 20, 2021, 09:13:26 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 20, 2021, 06:53:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 20, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Murder is murder. If a civilian dies outside of that then there is never justification.

It doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 200 years ago. Anyone who feels that time will make it ok is a fool

Yep, but to quote an old cliché ' history is written by the Victors '

Look at the fire bombing of Dresden by the allies. Plenty of apologists for that including one or two on this forum i'd guess.
         
You could say the same about Le Mon!

Yep, you're right. That's my point. Milltown has it 100% right. All murder of civilians is morally wrong and should be condemned.
         Unfortunately thats not the way it works. Morally unforgiveable acts like Dresden were justified ' for the greater good ' and to limit the loss of allied troops. Ditto Horishima and Nagasaki.
         The allies won. They got to say what was morally justified. They got to call out the Nazis for the cruel bast@rds they were and rightly so.
       If the axis had of won the reverse would be true. The genocide they perpetrated against the Jewish, gypsy, Slavic and other peoples would have brushed under the carpet
       Whats the lesson? Might is right and don't be on the loosing side?

You all should brush up on your  understanding of WW2 history before offering glib references. But perhaps  that just exemplifies the  paucity of informed debate which burdens this thread  ;D

The London  blitz bombing  was a failed tactic in WW2 to begin with and in the end  managed to achieve the opposite of what was intended . The carpet bombing of German cities did not work for the Allies cause either, it was an expression of the madness of Bomber Harris.  It had no effect on the outcome of WW2.  It was a total waste of human and material resources. There was no justification for Dresden and  there was no military positive benefit either.
WW2 was won in all the other theatres , nothing was achieved militarily  by carpet bombing of civilian areas.

I think you've missed the point.
      Perhaps you could help me brush up on my knowledge of ww2 by pointing out were any of the top brass in either of the British or Us Armed forces/government ever condemned the ' madness of bomber Harris ' as you put it?
         

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2021, 11:29:38 AM
I see Minister Murphy on TV yesterday asking for new taxes in NI. What is most scary is that he wouldn't look at the NICS and see one of the easiest ways to save money would be for at least 10% of the workforce to be made redundant. The NICS and our government here in general waste huge amounts of money every single year. Look at the schemes that they came up with, RHI for example. Look at the costs for this troubles pension... over 1.2 billion!!

I don't know what planet SF and Conor Murphy are on but raising taxes in NI unilaterally is f**king madness. Someone in SF needs to shout stop.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2021, 11:39:00 AM
The Brits reducing their "laziness" subvention?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2021, 11:55:42 AM
This is a taste of what's coming in the South. When they get into government at the next election, it'll be huge tax rises and new taxes all round.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on March 08, 2021, 12:10:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2021, 11:55:42 AM
This is a taste of what's coming in the South. When they get into government at the next election, it'll be huge tax rises and new taxes all round.

Ah, part of me would like to see them on power because it will be the last time as they'd not deliver and leave their base support who would vote them into power in a worse position. They pitching to workers now and getting support there but never commit to what their cut off point is for what they define as "working class" is. They'd hammer these with addition taxes and struggle to attract FDI.

On the flip side, I don't think they actually see themselves in power and happy to sit on fence and be in opposition. I'd imagine Mary Lou prays every night her thanks that they didn't run enough candidates the last time and look to form a government with what has happened with Covid since.

We don't have many great politicians in many parties or in Government, or rather have too many more interested in the political game, but SF have no depth at all bar 3/4 at top and rest are local councillors pushed up the line to contest seats that where won by party profile rather than individuals. Happens a lot in elections but can't see how they could run a ministry.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 09:38:02 AM
They know how to put ads in the papers anyway

https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2021/0310/1203044-sinn-fein-us-adverts/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 10, 2021, 10:49:23 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 09:38:02 AM
They know how to put ads in the papers anyway

https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2021/0310/1203044-sinn-fein-us-adverts/

Almost all media outlets here are saying this ad was placed by SF. For accuracy's sake, it was not placed by SF, but by FOSF USA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 10, 2021, 12:16:09 PM
SF are just rent free in some people's heads
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 10, 2021, 04:16:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 09:38:02 AM
They know how to put ads in the papers anyway

https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2021/0310/1203044-sinn-fein-us-adverts/

Hardly a day goes by when someone from SF or some affiliated group doesn't call for a border poll. It's their dead cat strategy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 10, 2021, 04:51:08 PM
I see Leo has engaged in a bit of sectarian barrel scrapping today. He (falsely) claimed on the radio that SF don't have any protestant TDs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 10, 2021, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

"Leo Varadkar said the opposition party were "an obstacle to unity" because of its "openly hostile" relationship with unionism."

So it must be fair to say, then, that Varadkar and his party are also "an obstacle to unity" because of their "openly hostile relationship" with 6 county nationalism.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on March 10, 2021, 06:53:04 PM
Bit rich from Leo when FG or FF wouldn't nominate Ian Marshall to the senate. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 07:59:50 PM
Very true.
Seems Seanad seats aren't part of a shared island!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 10, 2021, 09:05:36 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.
No change there then.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: An Watcher on March 11, 2021, 07:27:21 AM
I was actually just singing Robin Swanns praises last night over his handling of covid
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 07:28:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

You can guarantee what now??

Watcher what has Swann done?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 08:27:23 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Thanks for that hard hitting criticism of the Tanaiste carrying out a sectarian headcount of TDs.

Wait, sorry. You managed to avoid any reference to it what-so-ever  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 08:29:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Is this a serious post?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 08:33:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.
:o :o :o
I was doing that much eye rolling at your post and it's pathetically desperate attempts at deflection from Varadkar's sectarian headcounting, that I missed this absolute chestnut at the end!!

What the actual f#@k!!!!lol I mean seriously. I've heard it all on this board now, I really have.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 11, 2021, 08:41:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Clearly a Derry thing this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: macker15 on March 11, 2021, 08:43:32 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 10, 2021, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

"Leo Varadkar said the opposition party were "an obstacle to unity" because of its "openly hostile" relationship with unionism."

So it must be fair to say, then, that Varadkar and his party are also "an obstacle to unity" because of their "openly hostile relationship" with 6 county nationalism.

The man is a liability.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:08:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 11, 2021, 08:41:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Clearly a Derry thing this

Clearly
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:13:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 08:29:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Is this a serious post?

Yes. Who hasn't heard the word "Hun", "black/orange bast%%ds", "f**k them , hell rub it up the feckers with Brexit etc" used recently. Stop lying lads. You know its true. Sectarianism and division underpins almost everything we do in the north. Suck it up. People are so cute about this stuff, ach sure its only a bit of craic etc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:15:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 08:33:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.
:o :o :o
I was doing that much eye rolling at your post and it's pathetically desperate attempts at deflection from Varadkar's sectarian headcounting, that I missed this absolute chestnut at the end!!

What the actual f#@k!!!!lol I mean seriously. I've heard it all on this board now, I really have.

I called him a tube. He made a very  bad attempt at a very valid point about unionism and their relationship with SF. It doesn't work, it wont work ever. SF cant successfully lead the unity campaign.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 11, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:15:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 08:33:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.
:o :o :o
I was doing that much eye rolling at your post and it's pathetically desperate attempts at deflection from Varadkar's sectarian headcounting, that I missed this absolute chestnut at the end!!

What the actual f#@k!!!!lol I mean seriously. I've heard it all on this board now, I really have.

I called him a tube. He made a very  bad attempt at a very valid point about unionism and their relationship with SF. It doesn't work, it wont work ever. SF cant successfully lead the unity campaign.

Coveney is going to get an even greater taste of the DUP mentality after his statement about Boris and Frost being untrustworthy.

It's literally impossible to work with them on anything due to their intransigence and moral superiority on everything.

They need a bogey man on the NI protocol, Shinners have stepped to the side on it to a larger degree so the DUP need another bogey man and that's going to be Coveney and the Irish state.

At least Emily Maitliss on Newsnight got stuck into Sammy last night when he went on his bogeyman rant over the NI Protocol.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Yeah cause that's what normal northern nationalist do every week, phone up a mate and go, them unionist/loyalist/protestant bstards!!

I look forward to that chat every week.

I know I've chatted to and about northern nationalist most weeks though
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 09:51:24 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:15:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 08:33:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.
:o :o :o
I was doing that much eye rolling at your post and it's pathetically desperate attempts at deflection from Varadkar's sectarian headcounting, that I missed this absolute chestnut at the end!!

What the actual f#@k!!!!lol I mean seriously. I've heard it all on this board now, I really have.

I called him a tube. He made a very  bad attempt at a very valid point about unionism and their relationship with SF. It doesn't work, it wont work ever. SF cant successfully lead the unity campaign.

You merely said he was a tube "at times", then launched into another tiresome rant about SF.

He attempted to perform a sectarian headcount of his fellow TDs. It says it all that you can't just condemn that and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:59:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Yeah cause that's what normal northern nationalist do every week, phone up a mate and go, them unionist/loyalist/protestant bstards!!

I look forward to that chat every week.

I know I've chatted to and about northern nationalist most weeks though

I'm normal, I don't hate prods, but I will laugh at people saying stuff at times because that's what we have always done, both sides, you know the drill MR2, come on it doesn't work up here , we generally don't get on on a lot of things, big things, important things, I must have been really unlucky to have worked in 5 different places across the north where a the taigs say bad things about the huns
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 11, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:13:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 08:29:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Is this a serious post?

Yes. Who hasn't heard the word "Hun", "black/orange bast%%ds", "f**k them , hell rub it up the feckers with Brexit etc" used recently. Stop lying lads. You know its true. Sectarianism and division underpins almost everything we do in the north. Suck it up. People are so cute about this stuff, ach sure its only a bit of craic etc

Definitely a Derry thing.

No normal people hear this sort of stuff on a weekly basis about 'protestants'

You need to broaden your horizons
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 11, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:13:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 08:29:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Is this a serious post?

Yes. Who hasn't heard the word "Hun", "black/orange bast%%ds", "f**k them , hell rub it up the feckers with Brexit etc" used recently. Stop lying lads. You know its true. Sectarianism and division underpins almost everything we do in the north. Suck it up. People are so cute about this stuff, ach sure its only a bit of craic etc

Definitely a Derry thing.

No normal people hear this sort of stuff on a weekly basis about 'protestants'

You need to broaden your horizons

Ach I know, you are right, that's why there are virtually only a handful of prods on here, we generally don't go to school together, we broadly don't play sport together, we don't worship together, we broadly don't socialise together, we broadly don't LIVE together. All them normal people that love prods so much and never say anything bad go to massive lengths to stay away from them in nearly every aspect of their lives. Very odd that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 10:12:46 AM
Maybe it's just that you're right, and EVERYONE else here is wrong, Fear  ::)

I live in a deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person here who disparages Protestants for their religion. Literally, not one.

Sounds like you have fallen into the deliberately and carefully crafted British narrative that the conflict here is a religious one, and not a political one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:20:29 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 10:12:46 AM
Maybe it's just that you're right, and EVERYONE else here is wrong, Fear  ::)

I live in a deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person here who disparages Protestants for their religion. Literally, not one.

Sounds like you have fallen into the deliberately and carefully crafted British narrative that the conflict here is a religious one, and not a political one.

Gone away and boil yer head man, its not about religion ,hasn't been for a long time, its about politics and associated values
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:20:29 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 11, 2021, 10:12:46 AM
Maybe it's just that you're right, and EVERYONE else here is wrong, Fear  ::)

I live in a deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person here who disparages Protestants for their religion. Literally, not one.

Sounds like you have fallen into the deliberately and carefully crafted British narrative that the conflict here is a religious one, and not a political one.

Gone away and boil yer head man, its not about religion ,hasn't been for a long time, its about politics and associated values

It's not about religion? So why did you then claim that the nationalist community is inherently sectarian about Protestants?
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women

I work in IT. Barely a woman in the place.

Tbh that statement is absolute nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:29:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women

I work in IT. Barely a woman in the place.

Tbh that statement is absolute nonsense.

IT-more or less women then lol. All yous brainy boys wile mild mannered
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 11, 2021, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 11, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:13:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 08:29:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Is this a serious post?

Yes. Who hasn't heard the word "Hun", "black/orange bast%%ds", "f**k them , hell rub it up the feckers with Brexit etc" used recently. Stop lying lads. You know its true. Sectarianism and division underpins almost everything we do in the north. Suck it up. People are so cute about this stuff, ach sure its only a bit of craic etc

Definitely a Derry thing.

No normal people hear this sort of stuff on a weekly basis about 'protestants'

You need to broaden your horizons

Ach I know, you are right, that's why there are virtually only a handful of prods on here, we generally don't go to school together, we broadly don't play sport together, we don't worship together, we broadly don't socialise together, we broadly don't LIVE together. All them normal people that love prods so much and never say anything bad go to massive lengths to stay away from them in nearly every aspect of their lives. Very odd that

Anyone who goes to massive lengths to stay away from protestants is certainly not normal

If this is something that is normal to you then you should probably be looking a bit closer to home when trying to find the problem
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:58:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 11, 2021, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 11, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:13:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 08:29:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Is this a serious post?

Yes. Who hasn't heard the word "Hun", "black/orange bast%%ds", "f**k them , hell rub it up the feckers with Brexit etc" used recently. Stop lying lads. You know its true. Sectarianism and division underpins almost everything we do in the north. Suck it up. People are so cute about this stuff, ach sure its only a bit of craic etc

Definitely a Derry thing.

No normal people hear this sort of stuff on a weekly basis about 'protestants'

You need to broaden your horizons

Ach I know, you are right, that's why there are virtually only a handful of prods on here, we generally don't go to school together, we broadly don't play sport together, we don't worship together, we broadly don't socialise together, we broadly don't LIVE together. All them normal people that love prods so much and never say anything bad go to massive lengths to stay away from them in nearly every aspect of their lives. Very odd that

Anyone who goes to massive lengths to stay away from protestants is certainly not normal

If this is something that is normal to you then you should probably be looking a bit closer to home when trying to find the problem

Explain our demographics then please, in a sentence if you can, because as far as can see we have peace and we have not changed any of the above
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:00:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:29:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women

I work in IT. Barely a woman in the place.

Tbh that statement is absolute nonsense.

IT-more or less women then lol. All yous brainy boys wile mild mannered

I would work in what I assume is a completely mixed environment where I would assume most people wouldn't even know what religion most other people are. It doesn't come up as no one cares.

Main hobby outside work is running and that is the same. Never comes up.

I guess it depends on your environment. Also where I live is completely mixed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:02:52 AM
Trying marrying a prod!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 11:06:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:02:52 AM
Trying marrying a prod!

I did, she didnt like my prod jokes and dumped me, I was looking forward to cakes and a tidy garden
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:00:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:29:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women

I work in IT. Barely a woman in the place.

Tbh that statement is absolute nonsense.

IT-more or less women then lol. All yous brainy boys wile mild mannered

I would work in what I assume is a completely mixed environment where I would assume most people wouldn't even know what religion most other people are. It doesn't come up as no one cares.

Main hobby outside work is running and that is the same. Never comes up.

I guess it depends on your environment. Also where I live is completely mixed.

snob, you probably shop at Marks and Sparks and meet up with your muckers for "coffee" and a quick flick though the FT, there are literally no working class mixed areas(probably a few but very very little). PLus we all know  religion within 3-4 questions, where u from, what school you go to, whats your name, what sport u play?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
 ;D

(N.B. I very rarely shop in marks and sparks ;D)

I have found worse examples of fishing for your religion in scotland than I have here. I was out one night in edinburgh and a friend of a friend, who was an arsehole, spent the whole night trying to get religion out of me with various poorly masked questions which I wouldn't give an answer to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 11:30:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
;D

(N.B. I very rarely shop in marks and sparks ;D)

I have found worse examples of fishing for your religion in scotland than I have here. I was out one night in edinburgh and a friend of a friend, who was an arsehole, spent the whole night trying to get religion out of me with various poorly masked questions which I wouldn't give an answer to.

;D ;D Fair play .

Im away to do a bit , btw, the 2 for £10 deal is delightful in M&S.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on March 11, 2021, 11:35:27 AM
I don't get it at all... I work in a Republican town and we had a lad in to test the smoke alarms.

He had a few tattoos and looked fairly normal ... one of the older lads turned to the other after he left and said "aye he's definitely a prod". I soon chastised the 2 of them. What the f**k does it matter? He came in said hello tested the smoke alarm and was out I'm really not sure what his religion had to do with anything.

For me it's definitely a thing in the older generations who were teenagers or older in the 80s where it was a big deal if a Protestant came into a Caholic workplace and to be fair most are trying to steer clear of that kind of talk but old habits die hard.

Certainly very few under the age of 40 I know would talk like that at all and thankfully it's dying out!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 11:30:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
;D

(N.B. I very rarely shop in marks and sparks ;D)

I have found worse examples of fishing for your religion in scotland than I have here. I was out one night in edinburgh and a friend of a friend, who was an arsehole, spent the whole night trying to get religion out of me with various poorly masked questions which I wouldn't give an answer to.

;D ;D Fair play .

Im away to do a bit , btw, the 2 for £10 deal is delightful in M&S.

Thinks it 12 quid now for the meal deal in M&S
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:46:35 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:00:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:29:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women

I work in IT. Barely a woman in the place.

Tbh that statement is absolute nonsense.

IT-more or less women then lol. All yous brainy boys wile mild mannered

I would work in what I assume is a completely mixed environment where I would assume most people wouldn't even know what religion most other people are. It doesn't come up as no one cares.

Main hobby outside work is running and that is the same. Never comes up.

I guess it depends on your environment. Also where I live is completely mixed.

snob, you probably shop at Marks and Sparks and meet up with your muckers for "coffee" and a quick flick though the FT, there are literally no working class mixed areas(probably a few but very very little). PLus we all know  religion within 3-4 questions, where u from, what school you go to, whats your name, what sport u play?

I would live in a fairly predominate prod area, though its not an estate.. I was out at my mums one day and the kids were around 5 or 6 and being heavily involved with my club I'd been looking after the under 12 hurling teams for a few years, so the garage completely stacked with hurls, helmets cones and balls..

We'd be living there about a year or so, so usual chit chat and nothing like asking where ya from and what school di ya go to, not the done thing in fairness around there.

Anyways back to the story, my wife gave me a call and said you may get back to the house and oversee the game Amy (my eldest daughter) has arranged in the street, I pulls into the street, its a cul de sac and low and behold there was a full on street hurling match on, Amy had the kids in the street into teams and helmets on and nets (cones) arranged striking the soft hurling ball up and down the streets.. I didn't have to announce to anyone in the street that I was from the Falls, my kids did it for me!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 11, 2021, 11:48:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women

Sexist as well now Fear, you're on a roll these days.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 11, 2021, 11:50:28 AM
Talking of sexism ;D

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40242149.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 11, 2021, 12:02:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:58:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 11, 2021, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 11, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:13:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 08:29:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Is this a serious post?

Yes. Who hasn't heard the word "Hun", "black/orange bast%%ds", "f**k them , hell rub it up the feckers with Brexit etc" used recently. Stop lying lads. You know its true. Sectarianism and division underpins almost everything we do in the north. Suck it up. People are so cute about this stuff, ach sure its only a bit of craic etc

Definitely a Derry thing.

No normal people hear this sort of stuff on a weekly basis about 'protestants'

You need to broaden your horizons

Ach I know, you are right, that's why there are virtually only a handful of prods on here, we generally don't go to school together, we broadly don't play sport together, we don't worship together, we broadly don't socialise together, we broadly don't LIVE together. All them normal people that love prods so much and never say anything bad go to massive lengths to stay away from them in nearly every aspect of their lives. Very odd that

Anyone who goes to massive lengths to stay away from protestants is certainly not normal

If this is something that is normal to you then you should probably be looking a bit closer to home when trying to find the problem

Explain our demographics then please, in a sentence if you can, because as far as can see we have peace and we have not changed any of the above

People and families live where they've always lived

Were you expecting everyone to up sticks and move house on Holy Saturday 1998?

People tend to want to stay round their family and those they grew up with.  Hence, you don't remove segregation overnight.  It will take generations.

Same with sports - children play the sports they are introduced to by their parents... which tend to be the sports their parents played/watched... again... it takes generations to homogenise these things

Sectarian enclaves still exist but they are far from the norm

Unfortunately, you seem to be slap bang in the middle of one
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 11, 2021, 12:07:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 11, 2021, 11:50:28 AM
Talking of sexism ;D

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40242149.html

Positive discrimination  ;)

And if a protestant woman from a minority group becomes available they'll be a shoo-in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 12:11:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 11:30:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
;D

(N.B. I very rarely shop in marks and sparks ;D)

I have found worse examples of fishing for your religion in scotland than I have here. I was out one night in edinburgh and a friend of a friend, who was an arsehole, spent the whole night trying to get religion out of me with various poorly masked questions which I wouldn't give an answer to.

;D ;D Fair play .

Im away to do a bit , btw, the 2 for £10 deal is delightful in M&S.

Thinks it 12 quid now for the meal deal in M&S

Not if you go in 9:45
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 12:13:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 11, 2021, 11:48:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women

Sexist as well now Fear, you're on a roll these days.

Ach I jest lad, that's all, for the craic, my mas actually a woman, so is the wife and most of the wains, son is LGBT, so im not at all narrow minded there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 01:40:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 11:30:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
;D

(N.B. I very rarely shop in marks and sparks ;D)

I have found worse examples of fishing for your religion in scotland than I have here. I was out one night in edinburgh and a friend of a friend, who was an arsehole, spent the whole night trying to get religion out of me with various poorly masked questions which I wouldn't give an answer to.

;D ;D Fair play .

Im away to do a bit , btw, the 2 for £10 deal is delightful in M&S.

Thinks it 12 quid now for the meal deal in M&S

The b**tards.

MR I hope you are not one of these former working class west belfast people. There's a boy I know who moved from west to south and when asked where he was from one night, I think at a pantomime,  he said south belfast and has never lived that down to this day. I hope you're not one of them  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: themac_23 on March 11, 2021, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:46:35 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:00:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:29:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women

I work in IT. Barely a woman in the place.

Tbh that statement is absolute nonsense.

IT-more or less women then lol. All yous brainy boys wile mild mannered

I would work in what I assume is a completely mixed environment where I would assume most people wouldn't even know what religion most other people are. It doesn't come up as no one cares.

Main hobby outside work is running and that is the same. Never comes up.

I guess it depends on your environment. Also where I live is completely mixed.

snob, you probably shop at Marks and Sparks and meet up with your muckers for "coffee" and a quick flick though the FT, there are literally no working class mixed areas(probably a few but very very little). PLus we all know  religion within 3-4 questions, where u from, what school you go to, whats your name, what sport u play?

I would live in a fairly predominate prod area, though its not an estate.. I was out at my mums one day and the kids were around 5 or 6 and being heavily involved with my club I'd been looking after the under 12 hurling teams for a few years, so the garage completely stacked with hurls, helmets cones and balls..

We'd be living there about a year or so, so usual chit chat and nothing like asking where ya from and what school di ya go to, not the done thing in fairness around there.

Anyways back to the story, my wife gave me a call and said you may get back to the house and oversee the game Amy (my eldest daughter) has arranged in the street, I pulls into the street, its a cul de sac and low and behold there was a full on street hurling match on, Amy had the kids in the street into teams and helmets on and nets (cones) arranged striking the soft hurling ball up and down the streets.. I didn't have to announce to anyone in the street that I was from the Falls, my kids did it for me!

how many of them did ya send off  :P
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:13:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 08:29:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Is this a serious post?

Yes. Who hasn't heard the word "Hun", "black/orange bast%%ds", "f**k them , hell rub it up the feckers with Brexit etc" used recently. Stop lying lads. You know its true. Sectarianism and division underpins almost everything we do in the north. Suck it up. People are so cute about this stuff, ach sure its only a bit of craic etc

Clearly wasn't a serious post then
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on March 11, 2021, 05:42:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 12:13:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 11, 2021, 11:48:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 09:38:21 AM
QuoteI can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Can you explain the above statement?

Forget SF for a post. I don't care about them and you have a made a statement about northern nationalists and not SF. What is that statement about? Where has it come from?

Based on what I see and hear every single week, most nationalists will quite willingly engage in conversations that are negative about protestants, its engrained in us all, we don't like to admit it

I don't see that at all.

Occasionally anti DUP sentiments.

That's a fairly broad brush statement which tbh is nonsense.

Probably work with women

Sexist as well now Fear, you're on a roll these days.

Ach I jest lad, that's all, for the craic, my mas actually a woman, so is the wife and most of the wains, son is LGBT, so im not at all narrow minded there.

This made me chuckle
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 06:07:30 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 01:40:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 11:30:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
;D

(N.B. I very rarely shop in marks and sparks ;D)

I have found worse examples of fishing for your religion in scotland than I have here. I was out one night in edinburgh and a friend of a friend, who was an arsehole, spent the whole night trying to get religion out of me with various poorly masked questions which I wouldn't give an answer to.

;D ;D Fair play .

Im away to do a bit , btw, the 2 for £10 deal is delightful in M&S.

Thinks it 12 quid now for the meal deal in M&S

The b**tards.

MR I hope you are not one of these former working class west belfast people. There's a boy I know who moved from west to south and when asked where he was from one night, I think at a pantomime,  he said south belfast and has never lived that down to this day. I hope you're not one of them  ;D

Never forget your roots, 28 years in the one street off the Falls, Iveagh parade we dander up to Milltown. City life has its benefits 

In those days I had cousins at the top of the street, mum had three cousins in the street, her sisters in laws lived in our street also, next street another set of cousins an aunt and my granny lived in.

Was the done thing to stay close to family.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on March 11, 2021, 10:49:26 PM
Caral NiChuilin calling for housing equality, and her the Minister for Housing a few weeks ago. Opposition is so much handier.  Said it before, I'll say it again - Amateurs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

That's a good point, if I was hearing that kind of talk on a daily and weekly basis I'd have to start questioning the type of people I'm surrounding myself with.

FWIW I have no problem with anyone taking a pop at SF or any other party, but the absurdity of that statement made me have to re-read it a couple of times to make sure it was right.

The to claim all nationalists were bigots, pretty impressive.

I do wonder what kind of thoughts go on in a head like that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 12, 2021, 11:54:07 AM
Trying to fill the void left by a certain couple of posters  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

That's a good point, if I was hearing that kind of talk on a daily and weekly basis I'd have to start questioning the type of people I'm surrounding myself with.

FWIW I have no problem with anyone taking a pop at SF or any other party, but the absurdity of that statement made me have to re-read it a couple of times to make sure it was right.

The to claim all nationalists were bigots, pretty impressive.

I do wonder what kind of thoughts go on in a head like that.

Thank God you aren't my shrink, ye wouldnt make much money, what an awful thing to suggest about someone.

sectarian-the existence, within a locality, of two or more divided and actively competing communal identities, resulting in a strong sense of dualism which unremittingly transcends commonality, and is both culturally and physically manifest.'[1]

We live in a sectarian society and in the most part we as nationalists help facilitate it(based on the above definition) through our living, social, spiritual, educational and sporting choices and affiliations. It can not be denied, it fills our news EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Now bigot that is a whole other ballgame
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

That's a good point, if I was hearing that kind of talk on a daily and weekly basis I'd have to start questioning the type of people I'm surrounding myself with.

FWIW I have no problem with anyone taking a pop at SF or any other party, but the absurdity of that statement made me have to re-read it a couple of times to make sure it was right.

The to claim all nationalists were bigots, pretty impressive.

I do wonder what kind of thoughts go on in a head like that.

Thank God you aren't my shrink, ye wouldnt make much money, what an awful thing to suggest about someone.

sectarian-the existence, within a locality, of two or more divided and actively competing communal identities, resulting in a strong sense of dualism which unremittingly transcends commonality, and is both culturally and physically manifest.'[1]

We live in a sectarian society and in the most part we as nationalists help facilitate it(based on the above definition) through our living, social, spiritual, educational and sporting choices and affiliations. It can not be denied, it fills our news EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Now bigot that is a whole other ballgame

What is it that I suggested? Intrigued by that one.

Live in a sectarian society, OK. Fills our news, Ok. I'm still trying to rationalise your comment that 'Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day'. What exactly is that based on?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:10:26 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

Well if you are wondering, I work in an office with 7 men, 2 women. 1 prod, 8 catholics. Daily you hear stuff said about prods/unionism and of course the old enemy, sometimes very subtly (never by the woman, or the youngest lad).
I never met a protestant until I was 18. Derry is very, very badly divided socially. The only unionist area left on cityside is surrounded by a peace wall and cameras, there are no working class mixed areas in the city. Prods play in different local soccer league, dont play GAA, dont go to derry city games, mostly dont go to same schools, mostly dont drink in same bars. Until recently they shopped in limavady instead of coming across the bridge
Where is this fantastic non sectarian society that everyone is talking about?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 12, 2021, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:10:26 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

Well if you are wondering, I work in an office with 7 men, 2 women. 1 prod, 8 catholics. Daily you hear stuff said about prods/unionism and of course the old enemy, sometimes very subtly (never by the woman, or the youngest lad).
I never met a protestant until I was 18. Derry is very, very badly divided socially. The only unionist area left on cityside is surrounded by a peace wall and cameras, there are no working class mixed areas in the city. Prods play in different local soccer league, dont play GAA, dont go to derry city games, mostly dont go to same schools, mostly dont drink in same bars. Until recently they shopped in limavady instead of coming across the bridge
Where is this fantastic non sectarian society that everyone is talking about?

I refer you back to my first comment.

It's clearly a Derry thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:18:46 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

That's a good point, if I was hearing that kind of talk on a daily and weekly basis I'd have to start questioning the type of people I'm surrounding myself with.

FWIW I have no problem with anyone taking a pop at SF or any other party, but the absurdity of that statement made me have to re-read it a couple of times to make sure it was right.

The to claim all nationalists were bigots, pretty impressive.

I do wonder what kind of thoughts go on in a head like that.

Thank God you aren't my shrink, ye wouldnt make much money, what an awful thing to suggest about someone.

sectarian-the existence, within a locality, of two or more divided and actively competing communal identities, resulting in a strong sense of dualism which unremittingly transcends commonality, and is both culturally and physically manifest.'[1]

We live in a sectarian society and in the most part we as nationalists help facilitate it(based on the above definition) through our living, social, spiritual, educational and sporting choices and affiliations. It can not be denied, it fills our news EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Now bigot that is a whole other ballgame

What is it that I suggested? Intrigued by that one.

Live in a sectarian society, OK. Fills our news, Ok. I'm still trying to rationalise your comment that 'Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day'. What exactly is that based on?

You suggested that there was something wrong with my head, come on man up to it and don't back down. I could probably take out thee every single day bit but the rest of the sentence is entirely accurate in my experience.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:20:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 12, 2021, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:10:26 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

Well if you are wondering, I work in an office with 7 men, 2 women. 1 prod, 8 catholics. Daily you hear stuff said about prods/unionism and of course the old enemy, sometimes very subtly (never by the woman, or the youngest lad).
I never met a protestant until I was 18. Derry is very, very badly divided socially. The only unionist area left on cityside is surrounded by a peace wall and cameras, there are no working class mixed areas in the city. Prods play in different local soccer league, dont play GAA, dont go to derry city games, mostly dont go to same schools, mostly dont drink in same bars. Until recently they shopped in limavady instead of coming across the bridge
Where is this fantastic non sectarian society that everyone is talking about?

I refer you back to my first comment.

It's clearly a Derry thing.

Lmfao
One word
Belfast
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:20:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 12, 2021, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:10:26 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

Well if you are wondering, I work in an office with 7 men, 2 women. 1 prod, 8 catholics. Daily you hear stuff said about prods/unionism and of course the old enemy, sometimes very subtly (never by the woman, or the youngest lad).
I never met a protestant until I was 18. Derry is very, very badly divided socially. The only unionist area left on cityside is surrounded by a peace wall and cameras, there are no working class mixed areas in the city. Prods play in different local soccer league, dont play GAA, dont go to derry city games, mostly dont go to same schools, mostly dont drink in same bars. Until recently they shopped in limavady instead of coming across the bridge
Where is this fantastic non sectarian society that everyone is talking about?

I refer you back to my first comment.

It's clearly a Derry thing.

Lmfao
One word
Belfast

Yeah, I've worked in an office in Belfast.  Nobody in there sectarianised about Protestants.  Ever.

Again, referring you back to earlier comments - if this is actually your life experience, you probably need to look at the people you are interacting with.

I can assure you that 'sectarianising about Protestants every single day' is most definitely not the norm for the rest of us.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 01:00:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:20:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 12, 2021, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:10:26 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

Well if you are wondering, I work in an office with 7 men, 2 women. 1 prod, 8 catholics. Daily you hear stuff said about prods/unionism and of course the old enemy, sometimes very subtly (never by the woman, or the youngest lad).
I never met a protestant until I was 18. Derry is very, very badly divided socially. The only unionist area left on cityside is surrounded by a peace wall and cameras, there are no working class mixed areas in the city. Prods play in different local soccer league, dont play GAA, dont go to derry city games, mostly dont go to same schools, mostly dont drink in same bars. Until recently they shopped in limavady instead of coming across the bridge
Where is this fantastic non sectarian society that everyone is talking about?

I refer you back to my first comment.

It's clearly a Derry thing.

Lmfao
One word
Belfast

Yeah, I've worked in an office in Belfast.  Nobody in there sectarianised about Protestants.  Ever.

Again, referring you back to earlier comments - if this is actually your life experience, you probably need to look at the people you are interacting with.

I can assure you that 'sectarianising about Protestants every single day' is most definitely not the norm for the rest of us.

Don't do it myself. Hi just thinking should someone have a wee look at those peace walls up there?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 02:44:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 12:18:46 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on March 11, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2021, 06:58:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 04:54:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40241705.html

Leo is making a bit of a dick out of himself recently.

The more you see the less likeable he is. What's that saying - if he was a lollipop he'd eat himself? Comes across very ego centric all about me.

(I know most politicians are but he is definitely up there...)

Undoubted tube at times, but let's be honest must be very very few protestants on island supporting SF. And I think it's becoming more widely accepted now that SF can't be leaders on unity push if we are to convince unionists. I'm telling you most Shinners( and others) sectarianise about protestants every single day. It's often cloaked in poor tasting humour. I can pretty much guarantee that most northern nationalists have  been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants.

Would love to know the research you've done into this. This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted on here, and that's saying something. Is it a pisstake?

No and I can see I have hit a nerve here. Wrong thread probably for it. Btw you are a newbie

Ah the old 'I hit a nerve'. No, you haven't hit a nerve. I'm calling out an absurd statement, which I presume you are unable to backup, given its absurdity.

Lets recap:

Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day

If you can't see how ridiculous that is then that's your problem not mine.

Also, if you'd bothered to check I've been registered on this board for the last 10 years on this name, and further back on a previous name.

You forgot - he doesn't just accuse shinners of being sectarian. He also claimed that most nationalists are bigots (he claimed most sectarianise about Protestants at least once every week). You really do have to wonder what sort of circles he moves in.

That's a good point, if I was hearing that kind of talk on a daily and weekly basis I'd have to start questioning the type of people I'm surrounding myself with.

FWIW I have no problem with anyone taking a pop at SF or any other party, but the absurdity of that statement made me have to re-read it a couple of times to make sure it was right.

The to claim all nationalists were bigots, pretty impressive.

I do wonder what kind of thoughts go on in a head like that.

Thank God you aren't my shrink, ye wouldnt make much money, what an awful thing to suggest about someone.

sectarian-the existence, within a locality, of two or more divided and actively competing communal identities, resulting in a strong sense of dualism which unremittingly transcends commonality, and is both culturally and physically manifest.'[1]

We live in a sectarian society and in the most part we as nationalists help facilitate it(based on the above definition) through our living, social, spiritual, educational and sporting choices and affiliations. It can not be denied, it fills our news EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Now bigot that is a whole other ballgame

What is it that I suggested? Intrigued by that one.

Live in a sectarian society, OK. Fills our news, Ok. I'm still trying to rationalise your comment that 'Most Shinners sectarianise about Protestants every single day'. What exactly is that based on?

You suggested that there was something wrong with my head, come on man up to it and don't back down. I could probably take out thee every single day bit but the rest of the sentence is entirely accurate in my experience.

Can you point out where I said there was something wrong with your head? It seems like you're just making things up, again.

You've gone from 'most Shinners every single day' to 'i could take that part out' and '...in my experience'. You've also gone from 'Protestants' to 'prods/unionists' (Ironically many Protestants find being called a prod quite insulting).

See how its slowly but surely changing? You were adamant you were completely correct and justified in what you were saying, and now you're reeling it back in because you realise how idiotic and absurd it was. And you expect us to take the rest of what you say with any sort of credibility?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.

;) We believe you. But the data doesn't add up, I mean simply you are rewriting history there. Wise up, this republican idyll you live in does not exist, how can you live in a republican community which was at war with unionism and britain for 25 years and which elects a party who wants to remove the very raison d'etre for unionism and then say you never hear anything bad said about protestants or what they represent. This is our problem here, we cant see the boil on the end of our noses.

Came off a whattsapp group there this week, mainly because the celtic fans on it(majority of lads) were unbearable with their hateful memes after rangers win(bet you got one ;)). Sick and immature.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 12, 2021, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.

;) We believe you. But the data doesn't add up, I mean simply you are rewriting history there. Wise up, this republican idyll you live in does not exist, how can you live in a republican community which was at war with unionism and britain for 25 years and which elects a party who wants to remove the very raison d'etre for unionism and then say you never hear anything bad said about protestants or what they represent. This is our problem here, we cant see the boil on the end of our noses.

Came off a whattsapp group there this week, mainly because the celtic fans on it(majority of lads) were unbearable with their hateful memes after rangers win. Sick and immature.

I think the problem is that the boil on the end of your nose has got so big that you can't see past it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:55:47 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 12, 2021, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.

;) We believe you. But the data doesn't add up, I mean simply you are rewriting history there. Wise up, this republican idyll you live in does not exist, how can you live in a republican community which was at war with unionism and britain for 25 years and which elects a party who wants to remove the very raison d'etre for unionism and then say you never hear anything bad said about protestants or what they represent. This is our problem here, we cant see the boil on the end of our noses.

Came off a whattsapp group there this week, mainly because the celtic fans on it(majority of lads) were unbearable with their hateful memes after rangers win. Sick and immature.

I think the problem is that the boil on the end of your nose has got so big that you can't see past it.

;D Boom. I like that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.

;) We believe you. But the data doesn't add up, I mean simply you are rewriting history there. Wise up, this republican idyll you live in does not exist, how can you live in a republican community which was at war with unionism and britain for 25 years and which elects a party who wants to remove the very raison d'etre for unionism and then say you never hear anything bad said about protestants or what they represent. This is our problem here, we cant see the boil on the end of our noses.

Came off a whattsapp group there this week, mainly because the celtic fans on it(majority of lads) were unbearable with their hateful memes after rangers win(bet you got one ;)). Sick and immature.

I can say it because it is 100% the case. I have heard many's a thing said about unionism/loyalism, but I say again, I don't know one person in what is a strongly republican area, who speaks in a derogatory fashion (let alone does so on at least a weekly basis), about people because they are Protestant.

What you are doing is conflating the notions of the political and the religious. What I don't know is whether that is down to stupidity or down to a deliberate, desperate effort to justify your ludicrous claim (a claim that has been roundly and unanimously laughed at in the replies since).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.

;) We believe you. But the data doesn't add up, I mean simply you are rewriting history there. Wise up, this republican idyll you live in does not exist, how can you live in a republican community which was at war with unionism and britain for 25 years and which elects a party who wants to remove the very raison d'etre for unionism and then say you never hear anything bad said about protestants or what they represent. This is our problem here, we cant see the boil on the end of our noses.

Came off a whattsapp group there this week, mainly because the celtic fans on it(majority of lads) were unbearable with their hateful memes after rangers win(bet you got one ;)). Sick and immature.

I can say it because it is 100% the case. I have heard many's a thing said about unionism/loyalism, but I say again, I don't know one person in what is a strongly republican area, who speaks in a derogatory fashion (let alone does so on at least a weekly basis), about people because they are Protestant.

What you are doing is conflating the notions of the political and the religious. What I don't know is whether that is down to stupidity or down to a deliberate, desperate effort to justify your ludicrous claim (a claim that has been roundly and unanimously laughed at in the replies since).

I  definitely was  not stupid last time I checked
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 12, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.

;) We believe you. But the data doesn't add up, I mean simply you are rewriting history there. Wise up, this republican idyll you live in does not exist, how can you live in a republican community which was at war with unionism and britain for 25 years and which elects a party who wants to remove the very raison d'etre for unionism and then say you never hear anything bad said about protestants or what they represent. This is our problem here, we cant see the boil on the end of our noses.

Came off a whattsapp group there this week, mainly because the celtic fans on it(majority of lads) were unbearable with their hateful memes after rangers win(bet you got one ;)). Sick and immature.

I can say it because it is 100% the case. I have heard many's a thing said about unionism/loyalism, but I say again, I don't know one person in what is a strongly republican area, who speaks in a derogatory fashion (let alone does so on at least a weekly basis), about people because they are Protestant.

What you are doing is conflating the notions of the political and the religious. What I don't know is whether that is down to stupidity or down to a deliberate, desperate effort to justify your ludicrous claim (a claim that has been roundly and unanimously laughed at in the replies since).

I  definitely was  not stupid last time I checked

It must be the latter then
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 05:32:58 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 12, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.

;) We believe you. But the data doesn't add up, I mean simply you are rewriting history there. Wise up, this republican idyll you live in does not exist, how can you live in a republican community which was at war with unionism and britain for 25 years and which elects a party who wants to remove the very raison d'etre for unionism and then say you never hear anything bad said about protestants or what they represent. This is our problem here, we cant see the boil on the end of our noses.

Came off a whattsapp group there this week, mainly because the celtic fans on it(majority of lads) were unbearable with their hateful memes after rangers win(bet you got one ;)). Sick and immature.

I can say it because it is 100% the case. I have heard many's a thing said about unionism/loyalism, but I say again, I don't know one person in what is a strongly republican area, who speaks in a derogatory fashion (let alone does so on at least a weekly basis), about people because they are Protestant.

What you are doing is conflating the notions of the political and the religious. What I don't know is whether that is down to stupidity or down to a deliberate, desperate effort to justify your ludicrous claim (a claim that has been roundly and unanimously laughed at in the replies since).

I  definitely was  not stupid last time I checked

It must be the latter then

lol My thoughts exactly
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 06:33:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 12, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.

;) We believe you. But the data doesn't add up, I mean simply you are rewriting history there. Wise up, this republican idyll you live in does not exist, how can you live in a republican community which was at war with unionism and britain for 25 years and which elects a party who wants to remove the very raison d'etre for unionism and then say you never hear anything bad said about protestants or what they represent. This is our problem here, we cant see the boil on the end of our noses.

Came off a whattsapp group there this week, mainly because the celtic fans on it(majority of lads) were unbearable with their hateful memes after rangers win(bet you got one ;)). Sick and immature.

I can say it because it is 100% the case. I have heard many's a thing said about unionism/loyalism, but I say again, I don't know one person in what is a strongly republican area, who speaks in a derogatory fashion (let alone does so on at least a weekly basis), about people because they are Protestant.

What you are doing is conflating the notions of the political and the religious. What I don't know is whether that is down to stupidity or down to a deliberate, desperate effort to justify your ludicrous claim (a claim that has been roundly and unanimously laughed at in the replies since).

I  definitely was  not stupid last time I checked

It must be the latter then

Nope. I'm right. Not too bothered what any of yous boys think, anyhow I think foster met taoiseach without any issues there recently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 12, 2021, 08:10:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 06:33:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 12, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 12, 2021, 01:38:22 PM
Saying we live in a society which is divided in terms of traditions/culture/sport/education etc is one thing - but that's a far cry away from justifying your specific claim that you could "guarantee that most northern nationalists have been involved in a conversation over the last week where something bad was said about protestants."

As I've stated already, I live in a very deeply republican community and I can say, hand on heart, that I don't know one single person in it who speaks disparagingly about Protestants. If you're not on the wind up and you actually do think most nationalists do so (and on at least a weekly basis), then you really do need your head examined.

;) We believe you. But the data doesn't add up, I mean simply you are rewriting history there. Wise up, this republican idyll you live in does not exist, how can you live in a republican community which was at war with unionism and britain for 25 years and which elects a party who wants to remove the very raison d'etre for unionism and then say you never hear anything bad said about protestants or what they represent. This is our problem here, we cant see the boil on the end of our noses.

Came off a whattsapp group there this week, mainly because the celtic fans on it(majority of lads) were unbearable with their hateful memes after rangers win(bet you got one ;)). Sick and immature.

I can say it because it is 100% the case. I have heard many's a thing said about unionism/loyalism, but I say again, I don't know one person in what is a strongly republican area, who speaks in a derogatory fashion (let alone does so on at least a weekly basis), about people because they are Protestant.

What you are doing is conflating the notions of the political and the religious. What I don't know is whether that is down to stupidity or down to a deliberate, desperate effort to justify your ludicrous claim (a claim that has been roundly and unanimously laughed at in the replies since).

I  definitely was  not stupid last time I checked

It must be the latter then

Nope. I'm right. Not too bothered what any of yous boys think, anyhow I think foster met taoiseach without any issues there recently.

Lol.  Whatever helps you sleep.

Myself and most others on here (who don't hang around/work/live with neanderthals) will continue to consider what you've said a load of shite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
It's bizarre, I understand if working in an environment like the shipyard/Shortts like I did, I expected that and in fairness the reality wasn't as bad as what outsiders thought.

But in every other working environment I've been in after that it's been nothing but friendly, good banter with proper slagging and no one taking things thick
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
It's bizarre, I understand if working in an environment like the shipyard/Shortts like I did, I expected that and in fairness the reality wasn't as bad as what outsiders thought.

But in every other working environment I've been in after that it's been nothing but friendly, good banter with proper slagging and no one taking things thick

I know don't forget I work almost entirely with Catholics, so people are free to say what they really think most of the time 😜
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on March 13, 2021, 12:41:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
It's bizarre, I understand if working in an environment like the shipyard/Shortts like I did, I expected that and in fairness the reality wasn't as bad as what outsiders thought.

But in every other working environment I've been in after that it's been nothing but friendly, good banter with proper slagging and no one taking things thick

I know don't forget I work almost entirely with Catholics, so people are free to say what they really think most of the time 😜

I haven't heard a derogatory word agsinst Protestantism, ever. Plenty of animosity toward supremacist loyalism though. Sectarianism against Protestants is ridiculed where I come from and would get no traction at all. Antagonism towards  anti-Irish bigotry remains strong , and rightly so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on March 13, 2021, 01:37:07 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
It's bizarre, I understand if working in an environment like the shipyard/Shortts like I did, I expected that and in fairness the reality wasn't as bad as what outsiders thought.

But in every other working environment I've been in after that it's been nothing but friendly, good banter with proper slagging and no one taking things thick

I know don't forget I work almost entirely with Catholics, so people are free to say what they really think most of the time 😜
Aye - A bit of harmless anti protestant / unionist / loyalist slagging - Sure, it's all a bit of craic sure, and it's not remotely sectarian or bigoted in any way!
PS - I appreciate you have previously addressed the elephant in the room yourself, but your last post is quite telling and backs up your original point quite nicely
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 13, 2021, 08:43:53 AM
Quote from: michaelg on March 13, 2021, 01:37:07 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
It's bizarre, I understand if working in an environment like the shipyard/Shortts like I did, I expected that and in fairness the reality wasn't as bad as what outsiders thought.

But in every other working environment I've been in after that it's been nothing but friendly, good banter with proper slagging and no one taking things thick

I know don't forget I work almost entirely with Catholics, so people are free to say what they really think most of the time 😜
Aye - A bit of harmless anti protestant / unionist / loyalist slagging - Sure, it's all a bit of craic sure, and it's not remotely sectarian or bigoted in any way!
PS - I appreciate you have previously addressed the elephant in the room yourself, but your last post is quite telling and backs up your original point quite nicely

The attitudes of 6 or 7 people he works with now represent the entire nationalist population? Unless that's what you're seriously suggesting, then no, he has not backed up in the slightest way his claim that most nationalists speak in a sectarian manner about protestants on at last a weekly basis.

That claim is utter nonsense and has, quite rightly, been roundly dismissed as such.

You're on a discussion board populated by more than just 6 or 7 people, and they are from a wider geographical area than one office/workplace. The contributors to it are overwhelmingly nationalist and mostly from the six counties. Added to that the anonymity aspect and one would suspect people would say things here that they would be more careful about saying in the real world. So if the "vast majority" of nationalists make derogatory comments on people because of their Protestant religion on "at least" a weekly basis, as FBnaS claims, you could be forgiven for thinking it would be even more prevalent on here. How many posters here have made sectarian comments about Protestants in the last week? Would you say the "vast majority" have? And before you start trying to muddy the waters as FBnaS has; his claim was specifically about Protestantism, not political unionism. Criticism of the legitimate political position of unionism is not sectatian.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 13, 2021, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: michaelg on March 13, 2021, 01:37:07 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
It's bizarre, I understand if working in an environment like the shipyard/Shortts like I did, I expected that and in fairness the reality wasn't as bad as what outsiders thought.

But in every other working environment I've been in after that it's been nothing but friendly, good banter with proper slagging and no one taking things thick

I know don't forget I work almost entirely with Catholics, so people are free to say what they really think most of the time 😜
Aye - A bit of harmless anti protestant / unionist / loyalist slagging - Sure, it's all a bit of craic sure, and it's not remotely sectarian or bigoted in any way!
PS - I appreciate you have previously addressed the elephant in the room yourself, but your last post is quite telling and backs up your original point quite nicely

It does indeed,sometimes the truth cuts deep, I hope through all of this you have realised how much it disgusts me.  It's up there with casual racism (rife), casual homophobia (rife). You wouldn't believe how many people know I've number of family members that are gay and yet keep forgetting not to use the word fruit, fag etc etc constantly. I always get ah sorry I forgot , but thats I'm sure how the single prod in the room feels-he gets the oh I'm sorry bit too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2021, 12:48:51 PM
You must look forward to a united ireland then as the more South you go on the island the less people know about the religion of their neighbours and friends. What you describe is the outcome of the set up a nasty little sectarian statelet from day 1.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on March 13, 2021, 02:15:13 PM
Pretty even split where I work. Only thing I notice is unionists deliberately saying Irish names incorrectly. The black btsards
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 13, 2021, 02:32:11 PM
90% nationalist/Republican where I work. A couple of ones from Sandy Row, Mount Vernon, Omagh that kick with the other foot. A bit of light slagging but everyone gets it regardless of religion. Charlie Tully maybe you should try teaching them Irish, the wee lad from mount vernon has a cúpla focal courtesy of our efforts
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 13, 2021, 02:39:16 PM
Quote from: michaelg on March 13, 2021, 01:37:07 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
It's bizarre, I understand if working in an environment like the shipyard/Shortts like I did, I expected that and in fairness the reality wasn't as bad as what outsiders thought.

But in every other working environment I've been in after that it's been nothing but friendly, good banter with proper slagging and no one taking things thick

I know don't forget I work almost entirely with Catholics, so people are free to say what they really think most of the time 😜
Aye - A bit of harmless anti protestant / unionist / loyalist slagging - Sure, it's all a bit of craic sure, and it's not remotely sectarian or bigoted in any way!
PS - I appreciate you have previously addressed the elephant in the room yourself, but your last post is quite telling and backs up your original point quite nicely

The whole thing is bollocks michaelg. Most nationalists my arse.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on March 14, 2021, 12:35:45 PM
Quote from: michaelg on March 13, 2021, 01:37:07 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
It's bizarre, I understand if working in an environment like the shipyard/Shortts like I did, I expected that and in fairness the reality wasn't as bad as what outsiders thought.

But in every other working environment I've been in after that it's been nothing but friendly, good banter with proper slagging and no one taking things thick

I know don't forget I work almost entirely with Catholics, so people are free to say what they really think most of the time 😜
Aye - A bit of harmless anti protestant / unionist / loyalist slagging - Sure, it's all a bit of craic sure, and it's not remotely sectarian or bigoted in any way!
PS - I appreciate you have previously addressed the elephant in the room yourself, but your last post is quite telling and backs up your original point quite nicely

That's a load of nonsense. How does it back up his original point? Go back and read his original point and tell me how it backs it up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 08:47:58 AM
I'm struggling to understand SF strategy on abortion in the North. Why did they abstain as supporters of the right to choose? I would like a constructive answer from a SF supporter and not the usual anti SF commentary. On balance I would probably be supportive of this clause if it puts the abortion in the case of non foetal abnormality on the same footing as a normal diagnosis. I would be a supporter of a women's right to choose, having been given the support to make an informed choice. But as with most Catholics I am conflicted to some degree.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 16, 2021, 08:52:08 AM
See that dose Chris Hazzard spewing rubbish again last night. Man would need his phone taken off him. SF's answer to Sammy Wilson.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 16, 2021, 09:07:07 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 08:47:58 AM
I'm struggling to understand SF strategy on abortion in the North. Why did they abstain as supporters of the right to choose? I would like a constructive answer from a SF supporter and not the usual anti SF commentary. On balance I would probably be supportive of this clause if it puts the abortion in the case of non foetal abnormality on the same footing as a normal diagnosis. I would be a supporter of a women's right to choose, having been given the support to make an informed choice. But as with most Catholics I am conflicted to some degree.

Seems a bit of an own goal by the Shinners. If they've a strategy for doing what they did then they better get it out there ASAP.

don't know enough about this DUP bill, but what impact will it have on the full abortion bill passed in Westminster? Is it as meaningless as some believe?

Has to be noted that a lot of the SDLP voted Aye, along with the DUP and even our local Alliance MLA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 09:10:00 AM
As Fear Bun put it on the other thread they  know their voters in the 6 Cos are more Conservative on this issue than their (newer) voters in the 26.
If you want to be Populist you've got to go with the popular view.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 16, 2021, 09:26:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 09:10:00 AM
As Fear Bun put it on the other thread they  know their voters in the 6 Cos are more Conservative on this issue than their (newer) voters in the 26.
If you want to be Populist you've got to go with the popular view.

There's a certain amount of truth in that as the SDLP also know but you can't be an AI party one minute and have a different policy of something as profound in this in both jurisdictions.

If what I'm being told is correct the abortion will be legalised in the North due to the WM bill, the one voted on last night was to amend the ability of a woman to abort a fetus with non-fatal abnormalities.

As a man, I'd agree with that, but also as a man I don't think I should enforce my will on a woman who I don't know anything about or the circumstances that she finds herself in.

We hear all this bluster about supporting the mother to carry the baby yet they cut the fúck out of social services and the likes.
Get that bit right and maybe mothers in difficult circumstances might be less likely to want to abort the child.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 16, 2021, 09:36:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 16, 2021, 08:52:08 AM
See that dose Chris Hazzard spewing rubbish again last night. Man would need his phone taken off him. SF's answer to Sammy Wilson.

You're fairly tiresome with your political mudslinging.

The fact you're a partisan stoop says it all though.

Has Colum managed to stop Brexit yet?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 09:39:27 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 16, 2021, 09:26:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 09:10:00 AM
As Fear Bun put it on the other thread they  know their voters in the 6 Cos are more Conservative on this issue than their (newer) voters in the 26.
If you want to be Populist you've got to go with the popular view.

There's a certain amount of truth in that as the SDLP also know but you can't be an AI party one minute and have a different policy of something as profound in this in both jurisdictions.

If what I'm being told is correct the abortion will be legalised in the North due to the WM bill, the one voted on last night was to amend the ability of a woman to abort a fetus with non-fatal abnormalities.

As a man, I'd agree with that, but also as a man I don't think I should enforce my will on a woman who I don't know anything about or the circumstances that she finds herself in.

We hear all this bluster about supporting the mother to carry the baby yet they cut the fúck out of social services and the likes.
Get that bit right and maybe mothers in difficult circumstances might be less likely to want to abort the child.
Paul Given made the point this morning that this would bring abortion here into line with the ROI.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on March 16, 2021, 10:43:34 AM
It's little wonder the noise they making about Leotheleak down here when they are, once again, changing their policies north against what they supported down south. Mind you they left it very late in the referendum to row in behind the yes vote, funny enough when they polls showed that the vote was going to be yes. Matt Carty, who is terrible unless he is reading from his script, was challenged last night about why they had changed tact from Sunday on their Leotheleak position from letting the criminal investigation run its course to an aggressive position yesterday. Bit of deflection for their fence sitting? Has the army council ordered a different position in the assembly?

They've stuck the heads in the sand it seems since and haven't addressed their position yet. But lot of women's groups, north and south, looking answers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 16, 2021, 10:52:20 AM
When you try to be all things to all people you end up being of no use to anyone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 16, 2021, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: Louther on March 16, 2021, 10:43:34 AM
It's little wonder the noise they making about Leotheleak down here when they are, once again, changing their policies north against what they supported down south. Mind you they left it very late in the referendum to row in behind the yes vote, funny enough when they polls showed that the vote was going to be yes. Matt Carty, who is terrible unless he is reading from his script, was challenged last night about why they had changed tact from Sunday on their Leotheleak position from letting the criminal investigation run its course to an aggressive position yesterday. Bit of deflection for their fence sitting? Has the army council ordered a different position in the assembly?

They've stuck the heads in the sand it seems since and haven't addressed their position yet. But lot of women's groups, north and south, looking answers.

Was talking your post seriously until I got to that bit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on March 16, 2021, 11:02:47 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 16, 2021, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: Louther on March 16, 2021, 10:43:34 AM
It's little wonder the noise they making about Leotheleak down here when they are, once again, changing their policies north against what they supported down south. Mind you they left it very late in the referendum to row in behind the yes vote, funny enough when they polls showed that the vote was going to be yes. Matt Carty, who is terrible unless he is reading from his script, was challenged last night about why they had changed tact from Sunday on their Leotheleak position from letting the criminal investigation run its course to an aggressive position yesterday. Bit of deflection for their fence sitting? Has the army council ordered a different position in the assembly?

They've stuck the heads in the sand it seems since and haven't addressed their position yet. But lot of women's groups, north and south, looking answers.

Was talking your post seriously until I got to that bit.

Merely speculation and tongue in cheek as no official line seems to be forthcoming. Even some MLA had been tweeting their support the day before and then hopped on the fence.

Have you any answers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 11:08:58 AM
So now we know why the sudden Leotheleak campaign burst out from Mloo and the loyal bots yesterday ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 11:24:14 AM
I had hoped in vain as it turns out for a sensible response, instead of the anti sf claptrap.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 16, 2021, 11:28:00 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 11:08:58 AM
So now we know why the sudden Leotheleak campaign burst out from Mloo and the loyal bots yesterday ;D

Mary Lou was on Newstalk this morning demanding Leo's resignation. When asked why Michelle O'Neill didn't step aside while she was being investigated she strangely refused to answer. I suppose that's the advantage of taking the populist approach rather than being policy driven. You can take contradictory positions on anything

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 16, 2021, 11:47:20 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 16, 2021, 11:28:00 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 11:08:58 AM
So now we know why the sudden Leotheleak campaign burst out from Mloo and the loyal bots yesterday ;D

Mary Lou was on Newstalk this morning demanding Leo's resignation. When asked why Michelle O'Neill didn't step aside while she was being investigated she strangely refused to answer. I suppose that's the advantage of taking the populist approach rather than being policy driven. You can take contradictory positions on anything

Michelle O'Neill was not under any charges of abuse of power or cronyism. Leo Varadkar is.

I think what we are seeing here is the ashamed FFG voters circling the wagons.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 11:24:14 AM
I had hoped in vain as it turns out for a sensible response, instead of the anti sf claptrap.
Very sensitive to justified criticism aren't we?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 16, 2021, 11:51:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 11:24:14 AM
I had hoped in vain as it turns out for a sensible response, instead of the anti sf claptrap.
Very sensitive to justified criticism aren't we?

Justified.

You have got yourself into an awful agitated SF bashing state when some bad news about the leader of your beloved FG is mired in a serious criminal controversy.

You know FG, that party you support but are too ashamed into admitting to doing so.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 16, 2021, 11:52:58 AM
SF should call for a border poll so they can resolve their conflicting abortion stance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 16, 2021, 11:57:08 AM
SF have made some balls of this one.  Any criticism of them is well justified IMO.

I, like many others, am conflicted on the abortion issue, but the stance of SF on this was very clear - until that farce last night.

Anyone voting SF because of their previous stance on abortion would be 100% justified in feeling that they have been royally screwed over.

It remains to be seen whether this will hurt them in the polls (lost voters replaced with Aontu types?) - but it should.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on March 16, 2021, 11:57:31 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 16, 2021, 11:52:58 AM
SF should call for a border poll so they can resolve their conflicting abortion stance.

I'd actually be very interested to see what way they'd vote. They have a reluctance to commit to yes or no at times.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2021, 12:00:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 16, 2021, 11:52:58 AM
SF should call for a border poll so they can resolve their conflicting abortion stance.

They'd probably campaign against a UI vote on the basis that the 26 counties wasn't good enough to join with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: themac_23 on March 16, 2021, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 16, 2021, 11:57:08 AM
SF have made some balls of this one.  Any criticism of them is well justified IMO.

I, like many others, am conflicted on the abortion issue, but the stance of SF on this was very clear - until that farce last night.

Anyone voting SF because of their previous stance on abortion would be 100% justified in feeling that they have been royally screwed over.

It remains to be seen whether this will hurt them in the polls (lost voters replaced with Aontu types?) - but it should.

Im also conflicted and its a very sensitive subject that if you asked 100 people in private what they thought you'd prob find a lot of people would have a different answer than if you had a public show of hands. SF has scored a massive own goal With this. for reference, I have always voted SF. But with the direction they are going and a leadership who clearly aren't up to leading I won't be voting for them again and I know plenty who are feeling the same for different reason. im sick of the politics of just whatever the DUP say say the opposite, the political system here with power sharing is set up to fail.

The handling of the pandemic has been terrible from our govt in general not just from a SF point of view, but what it has done is shine a light on how broken our system is. I dont know who ill vote for when election time rolls around, I dont really know enough about Aontu but I will have a serious look at what they are about to see if it aligns with my feelings at the minute.

SF take mine and plenty of others votes for granted and therefore anything controversial they try and avoid it, not anymore for me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 16, 2021, 01:54:09 PM
I'd like to see Aontu progress, it would be good for nationalists to have viable alternative in the north because the SDLP aren't it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 16, 2021, 02:09:38 PM
Listen this is pure SF. Flip flopping on everything depending on which way public opinion blows. They are little more than the Irish UKIP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 16, 2021, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 16, 2021, 02:09:38 PM
Listen this is pure SF. Flip flopping on everything depending on which way public opinion blows. They are little more than the Irish UKIP.

Says the Stoop mouthpiece whose sole purpose on this board seems to be incessant SF bashing.

Has Colum stopped Brexit yet like he told us?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 04:05:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 11:24:14 AM
I had hoped in vain as it turns out for a sensible response, instead of the anti sf claptrap.
Very sensitive to justified criticism aren't we?
No, but some here have a clear agenda.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 16, 2021, 04:06:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 04:05:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 11:24:14 AM
I had hoped in vain as it turns out for a sensible response, instead of the anti sf claptrap.
Very sensitive to justified criticism aren't we?
No, but some here have a clear agenda.

Well we need a border poll then. Have SF called for one today yet?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2021, 07:52:04 PM
I stopped voting SF over this , well it was the straw that broke the camels back.

They never allowed a conscience vote which was a disgrace. If I had a penny for every boy came canvassing etc and said " look I agree with you buy ye know the craic" What you're a watery spinless, gutless sheep? Look at the state of them now, ALL ABOUT POWER, wouldn't happened on McGuinness watch.
Full of viscous bullies behind the scenes too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on March 16, 2021, 09:32:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2021, 07:52:04 PM
I stopped voting SF over this , well it was the straw that broke the camels back.

They never allowed a conscience vote which was a disgrace. If I had a penny for every boy came canvassing etc and said " look I agree with you buy ye know the craic" What you're a watery spinless, gutless sheep? Look at the state of them now, ALL ABOUT POWER, wouldn't happened on McGuinness watch.
Full of viscous bullies behind the scenes too.

They really should have allowed a conscience vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 16, 2021, 10:06:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2021, 07:52:04 PM
I stopped voting SF over this , well it was the straw that broke the camels back.

They never allowed a conscience vote which was a disgrace. If I had a penny for every boy came canvassing etc and said " look I agree with you buy ye know the craic" What you're a watery spinless, gutless sheep? Look at the state of them now, ALL ABOUT POWER, wouldn't happened on McGuinness watch.
Full of viscous bullies behind the scenes too.

Martin McGuinness, a great man for preserving life.

Give me a break.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 17, 2021, 08:44:20 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 16, 2021, 04:06:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 04:05:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 16, 2021, 11:24:14 AM
I had hoped in vain as it turns out for a sensible response, instead of the anti sf claptrap.
Very sensitive to justified criticism aren't we?
No, but some here have a clear agenda.

Well we need a border poll then. Have SF called for one today yet?
SF don't really want a border poll just yet, but as a republican party they have to be seen to be pushing. Not withstanding my previous stated reservations there are many non sf civic nationalists doing like wise. They are however taking a leaf out of the SNP playbook in so far as the first referendum will be the start of building a majority. Anyone sneering at them for doing so is resorting to play ground name calling. By all means express your opposition or concerns and doubts (as I have done previously) but present it as an argument not an insult.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 17, 2021, 08:48:03 AM
I read a statement on twitter from SF that went some way towards explaining why the abstained on the abortion amendment. The gist of it is that this amendment has no force in the absence of the whole legislation being implemented and as such is a distraction. Not sure as to how true this is perhaps a SF member on here could clarify.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 17, 2021, 09:01:43 AM
The bill shouldn't even be controversial. It is to prevent abortions in cases of non-FFA which should be the absolute minimum level of restriction in a civilised society.
I think SF should have actually supported the bill instead of during on the sideline, but at least they are beginning to realise there is a problem with terminating a healthy baby.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
Disappointed with this hypocrisy. You can't be a all ireland party and have different positions in 6 counties than in the other 26, just because there are more voters in the 6 clinging to a backward Catholic belief system.

That being said its also hypocritical to here criticism from FFFG who have never mobilised in the 6 counties.

I expect more from Sinn Fein on this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 17, 2021, 11:08:52 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
Disappointed with this hypocrisy. You can't be a all ireland party and have different positions in 6 counties than in the other 26, just because there are more voters in the 6 clinging to a backward Catholic belief system.

That being said its also hypocritical to here criticism from FFFG who have never mobilised in the 6 counties.

I expect more from Sinn Fein on this.

Its not about religion for me, its about morality, i'm sure it is for others but the fact that it is probably the only issue which mobilised cross community support outside Stormont points to a much more complex subject matter.

BTW they have different views on other things both sides of the border-welfare reform being one, nurses pay-rise being another until recently. Get them voted in de buck to we get a proper look at them south of the border. Now is the time as FF/FG are relatively weak, it is a different matter running a govt and modern growing ecoomy than standing in the road with placards
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on March 17, 2021, 11:33:59 AM
I've called out SF a few times when I felt it was BS, and in the interest of balance, Colum Eastwood told Radio Foyle this morning that Nichola Mallon had "delivered Casement". 
Again, you have to laugh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 12:10:28 PM
Honestly that guy is a bullshitter. I would be in favour of the sdlp generally but they need to ditch that guy as a leader. They will go nowhere with him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 17, 2021, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 12:10:28 PM
Honestly that guy is a bullshitter. I would be in favour of the sdlp generally but they need to ditch that guy as a leader. They will go nowhere with him.

Nicola seems to project a level of competence sadly lacking in a lot of politicians in the North and Colum is one of those. Too keen on getting a sound bite out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 17, 2021, 12:42:52 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
Disappointed with this hypocrisy. You can't be a all ireland party and have different positions in 6 counties than in the other 26, just because there are more voters in the 6 clinging to a backward Catholic belief system.

That being said its also hypocritical to here criticism from FFFG who have never mobilised in the 6 counties.

I expect more from Sinn Fein on this.

I'm a very lax Catholic, and I'm very pro life. Don't need the Catholic Church to tell me there's something wrong about it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2021, 12:45:46 PM
I suspect most Prods up North would share your view too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
A lot of Sinn Fein's new support in the Republic is young, urban and woke

And female, and very pro-choice

Seems a lot of the Shinners here have a big problem with this

They're going to have to get used to it, because either this support exerts a dominant influence on the party in terms of making it radically pro-choice, or they will desert them en masse

Aontu has little future because the far right are already all over it like flies on shit
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 17, 2021, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
A lot of Sinn Fein's new support in the Republic is young, urban and woke

And female, and very pro-choice

Seems a lot of the Shinners here have a big problem with this

They're going to have to get used to it, because either this support exerts a dominant influence on the party in terms of making it radically pro-choice, or they will desert them en masse

Aontu has little future because the far right are already all over it like flies on shit

You could say the exact same about SF's support in the north. I don't believe your assertion that they will lose traditional support, that's wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 01:10:49 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 17, 2021, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
A lot of Sinn Fein's new support in the Republic is young, urban and woke

And female, and very pro-choice

Seems a lot of the Shinners here have a big problem with this

They're going to have to get used to it, because either this support exerts a dominant influence on the party in terms of making it radically pro-choice, or they will desert them en masse

Aontu has little future because the far right are already all over it like flies on shit

You could say the exact same about SF's support in the north. I don't believe your assertion that they will lose traditional support, that's wishful thinking.
Sinn Fein's support on this forum seems "traditional", it seems pretty conservative, quite right-wing actually

And my strong impression is that there's also a deep dissatisfaction with the party there among these posters

They have little in common with the new woke SF supporters in the south

This is a reckoning coming down the tracks for the party

It is going to have to decide what it is

SF cannot gain power by reverting to appealing to just the "traditional" Ra heads and nationalist Catholic anti-abortion types

It has to portray itself as woke to win the middle ground, and hope that the Catholic nationalist fundies stick with them out of inertia






Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 01:23:45 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 17, 2021, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 12:10:28 PM
Honestly that guy is a bullshitter. I would be in favour of the sdlp generally but they need to ditch that guy as a leader. They will go nowhere with him.

Nicola seems to project a level of competence sadly lacking in a lot of politicians in the North and Colum is one of those. Too keen on getting a sound bite out.

He would be better getting someone to administer his Twitter account. Mallon, to me, is their best.

I know a guy, and a family, who would probably be in the diehard republican territory and SF have lost him, and presumably them, over the abortion stance. I definitely think they have lost some support over it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 17, 2021, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 01:10:49 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 17, 2021, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
A lot of Sinn Fein's new support in the Republic is young, urban and woke

And female, and very pro-choice

Seems a lot of the Shinners here have a big problem with this

They're going to have to get used to it, because either this support exerts a dominant influence on the party in terms of making it radically pro-choice, or they will desert them en masse

Aontu has little future because the far right are already all over it like flies on shit

You could say the exact same about SF's support in the north. I don't believe your assertion that they will lose traditional support, that's wishful thinking.
Sinn Fein's support on this forum seems "traditional", it seems pretty conservative, quite right-wing actually

And my strong impression is that there's also a deep dissatisfaction with the party there among these posters

They have little in common with the new woke SF supporters in the south

This is a reckoning coming down the tracks for the party

It is going to have to decide what it is

SF cannot gain power by reverting to appealing to just the "traditional" Ra heads and nationalist Catholic anti-abortion types

It has to portray itself as woke to win the middle ground, and hope that the Catholic nationalist fundies stick with them out of inertia

Nail on the head.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 03:30:49 PM
I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think SF lost their way a bit on abortion in the 26 counties when they threw Peader Toibin out and others also.
SF could have put forward the view that they are primarily interested in uniting Ireland and that there might be some variation in opinion among their members on things like abortion. Tóibín was a good performer and sound on the national issue. Had they allows a conscience vote in the 26 counties then they would probably still have Tóibín and they could then have allowed a conscience vote in the 6 counties which might have made them look less like eejits.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2021, 03:46:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 03:30:49 PM
I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think SF lost their way a bit on abortion in the 26 counties when they threw Peader Toibin out and others also.
SF could have put forward the view that they are primarily interested in uniting Ireland and that there might be some variation in opinion among their members on things like abortion. Tóibín was a good performer and sound on the national issue. Had they allows a conscience vote in the 26 counties then they would probably still have Tóibín and they could then have allowed a conscience vote in the 6 counties which might have made them look less like eejits.

Uniting ireland alone will not put bread on the table in the south. No way they could take that approach
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2021, 03:46:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 03:30:49 PM
I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think SF lost their way a bit on abortion in the 26 counties when they threw Peader Toibin out and others also.
SF could have put forward the view that they are primarily interested in uniting Ireland and that there might be some variation in opinion among their members on things like abortion. Tóibín was a good performer and sound on the national issue. Had they allows a conscience vote in the 26 counties then they would probably still have Tóibín and they could then have allowed a conscience vote in the 6 counties which might have made them look less like eejits.

Uniting ireland alone will not put bread on the table in the south. No way they could take that approach

Abortion has nothing to do with putting bread on the table.
A UI will come about if the south has a successful economy, so conflict there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 17, 2021, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2021, 03:46:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 03:30:49 PM
I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think SF lost their way a bit on abortion in the 26 counties when they threw Peader Toibin out and others also.
SF could have put forward the view that they are primarily interested in uniting Ireland and that there might be some variation in opinion among their members on things like abortion. Tóibín was a good performer and sound on the national issue. Had they allows a conscience vote in the 26 counties then they would probably still have Tóibín and they could then have allowed a conscience vote in the 6 counties which might have made them look less like eejits.

Uniting ireland alone will not put bread on the table in the south. No way they could take that approach

Abortion has nothing to do with putting bread on the table.
A UI will come about if the south has a successful economy, so conflict there.

I'd suggest the South has a pretty decent economy in the round, unlike us in this basket case where some unionists believe the subvention from whitehall is something to be proud of.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2021, 03:46:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 03:30:49 PM
I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think SF lost their way a bit on abortion in the 26 counties when they threw Peader Toibin out and others also.
SF could have put forward the view that they are primarily interested in uniting Ireland and that there might be some variation in opinion among their members on things like abortion. Tóibín was a good performer and sound on the national issue. Had they allows a conscience vote in the 26 counties then they would probably still have Tóibín and they could then have allowed a conscience vote in the 6 counties which might have made them look less like eejits.

Uniting ireland alone will not put bread on the table in the south. No way they could take that approach

Abortion has nothing to do with putting bread on the table.
A UI will come about if the south has a successful economy, so conflict there.

I am aware of that but you saying SF should tell people they are about a united ireland to rather extent that they have no opinion on other issues such as abortion is crazy. They'd be on less % than FF if they did that. SF tried that for decades down here and were peripheral. Insane to suggest they should do that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2021, 04:35:12 PM
SF were for the Abortion amendment/repeal to the Constitution in 2018.
They got around 10/11% of the vote in May 2019.
They got 24.8% in February 2020.
So fair to conclude their position on abortion had little to do with their new found popularity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2021, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2021, 04:35:12 PM
SF were for the Abortion amendment/repeal to the Constitution in 2018.
They got around 10/11% of the vote in May 2019.
They got 24.8% in February 2020.
So fair to conclude their position on abortion had little to do with their new found popularity.

Never said it did
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2021, 04:35:12 PM
SF were for the Abortion amendment/repeal to the Constitution in 2018.
They got around 10/11% of the vote in May 2019.
They got 24.8% in February 2020.
So fair to conclude their position on abortion had little to do with their new found popularity.
I think I disagree with this

SF's position on the marriage referendum and the 8th Amendment were prerequisites for their rise in support

In and of themselves they may not have been key drivers of support in 2020, but had they not taken the positions they did on those issues, they would not have done anywhere near as well

These issues gave Sinn Fein an "in" with modern progressive Ireland - because they were so vocal and visible on these issues, they positioned themselves as a serious option for young, progressive, middle class college graduates and students

And these groups are a huge driver of social media campaigning - they are populated by people like Christine O'Mahony, who has since left the party because of Brian Stanley putting his foot in his e-mouth

Local and European elections are different from general elections

SF's new voters liked the Green Party, and many probably voted Green in 2019, but they did not see the Green Party as having the potential to lead a government

SF's rise in the 2020 campaign came from nowhere - they did not start the campaign well - the rise came after Varadkar and Martin did the first debate of the campaign one on one, with FF riding high on 32% in an early poll

The debate was a snoozefest and everybody under 40 took a collective gasp and thought to themselves "surely there must be an alternative to these"

Many looked around and settled on SF as the next largest party



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 17, 2021, 10:20:51 PM
SF fucked up on the abortion issue- whatever side you are on it's a totally personal one and the "emotive" language from both sides helps no one. Party should allow a vote of conscience. Anyway feel as though there are far bigger issues than abortion.

Personally find a lot of young leftie sf people on twitter almost as hard to listen to as unionists with their fecking pronouns and 46 genders.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 11:47:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 15, 2021, 11:44:07 AM

Sure, and Ann Travers and Brian Stack are probably "sub-human trolls" too



If I may just focus in on a quote here and compare it with the below.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/d/3/d30aee04413dc6dbe0e778fd3d86855e8079c3be.png)

At some point down the line the same poster had his Eoghan Harris Road to Damascus conversion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2021, 02:40:22 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40247657.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 20, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
Watchdog probes Sinn Féin finances over office bought for €180k in cash

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html)

This is not a normal political party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 20, 2021, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 20, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
Watchdog probes Sinn Féin finances over office bought for €180k in cash

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html)

This is not a normal political party.

Crooks
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on March 20, 2021, 06:54:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 20, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
Watchdog probes Sinn Féin finances over office bought for €180k in cash

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html)

This is not a normal political party.

So is it illegal to buy a property with cash these days?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
It's required to be reported by the Estate Agent/Solicitors involved under money laundering laws.
Shall we say it STINKS!!
We'd have 25 pages since 15.12 if this was any other Party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 20, 2021, 07:09:39 PM
You also have the €4m donation left to them in a will. Under Irish law political parties aren't allowed to accept this large amount, but SF claimed it through the UK qhi have different rules. If any other party had done this Mary Lou would have been accusing them of corruption

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-tells-state-watchdog-uk-rules-apply-to-4m-donation-1.4384246
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on March 20, 2021, 07:12:33 PM
Something stinks to high heaven about this one!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 20, 2021, 07:15:31 PM
SF had a lot of money before the £4m donation, which in any case they haven't even received in it's entirety.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 20, 2021, 07:16:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2021, 07:15:31 PM
SF had a lot of money before the £4m donation, which in any case they haven't even received in it's entirety.

They didn't turn it down saying they couldn't accept it under law though. Yet another example of SF hypocrisy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 20, 2021, 07:35:15 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 20, 2021, 07:16:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2021, 07:15:31 PM
SF had a lot of money before the £4m donation, which in any case they haven't even received in it's entirety.

They didn't turn it down saying they couldn't accept it under law though. Yet another example of SF hypocrisy
Not really but whatever you think yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 20, 2021, 08:14:08 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2021, 07:35:15 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 20, 2021, 07:16:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2021, 07:15:31 PM
SF had a lot of money before the £4m donation, which in any case they haven't even received in it's entirety.

They didn't turn it down saying they couldn't accept it under law though. Yet another example of SF hypocrisy
Not really but whatever you think yourself.

Fair enough. It's not surprising you think differently. I think it's quite clear to everyone here SF supporters apply different rules to others that strangely don't apply to themselves. At least that's one policy they are consistent on
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on March 20, 2021, 08:24:15 PM
Does anybody think SF are not Charlatans? Even their own supporters must have a lot of moments.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 20, 2021, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 20, 2021, 07:09:39 PM
You also have the €4m donation left to them in a will. Under Irish law political parties aren't allowed to accept this large amount, but SF claimed it through the UK qhi have different rules. If any other party had done this Mary Lou would have been accusing them of corruption

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-tells-state-watchdog-uk-rules-apply-to-4m-donation-1.4384246

Seems an utterly bizarre claim you're making.

They were left money in a will. What's the issue here?

There's a Taoiseach in office now who took £5k from a dodgy property developer (who later had to give evidence in a tribunal) claiming it was a political donation yet it was lodged into his wife's bank account and expenditure not accounted for. These has never been properly explained by the current Taoiseach and the current Taoiseach also had to give evidence in the Mahon Tribunal where we was found out point blank to have told lies about his relationship with the said property developer. I've never seen you raise concern at that.

Now I know full well you will ignore this question and these incidents as you have a one eyed commentary but I think we should see you trolling and bias for all it.

It's right that anything fishy regarding the purchase of the property should be investigated I might add.

I would find it incredible that  anyone would find a political party accepting money left to them in a will more fishy than the head of state accepting bungs from property developers and saying they were political donations when they were lodged to a personal bank account and expenditure was unaccounted for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2021, 11:12:00 PM
We don't want people accepting bugs from anyone, whataboutery is not the point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 21, 2021, 07:59:43 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2021, 11:12:00 PM
We don't want people accepting bugs from anyone, whataboutery is not the point.

Fair enough but Dublin7 is merely a SF bashing troll. I do think people who raise the concerns need to be sincere rather than for scoring political points. I just find it amazing how little coverage the Martin story got when it's as clear a case of corruption as you will get.

He's out defending Varadkar in that thread while trying to denigrate SF for money left in a will to their political party.

Context is important and it's important to point out the very clear agenda of some posters is merely to bash one political party over any instance yet turn a blind eye to much worse goings in other political party.

I've made my point on Dublin7. He goes around trolling from thread to thread with lies and contradictions and generally runs off when his point needs substantiating or contradictions in his stance are outlined.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 08:12:23 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 20, 2021, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 20, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
Watchdog probes Sinn Féin finances over office bought for €180k in cash

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html)

This is not a normal political party.

Crooks

How so?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on March 21, 2021, 08:45:06 AM
Easter eggs. Not normal Easter eggs but Easter eggs for a United Ireland  :o :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 21, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 08:12:23 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 20, 2021, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 20, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
Watchdog probes Sinn Féin finances over office bought for €180k in cash

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html)

This is not a normal political party.

Crooks

How so?
Maybe they won it on the horses like Bertie Ahern🤣🤪🙄
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 21, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 08:12:23 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 20, 2021, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 20, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
Watchdog probes Sinn Féin finances over office bought for €180k in cash

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/watchdog-probes-sinn-fein-finances-over-officebought-for-180k-in-cash-40218402.html)

This is not a normal political party.

Crooks

How so?
Maybe they won it on the horses like Bertie Ahern🤣🤪🙄
Or maybe it was using party fundraising? Not much in the way of evidence to the contrary is there? There seems to be a lot of people on social media who think paying for a property in cash actually means using physical cash notes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 21, 2021, 10:36:22 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.

The hypocrite speaks again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.
Ah so not only did the IRA rob the Northern Bank, but they gave the money to SF? Evidence? Bah! Who needs it.

Meanwhile, there has been only one Irish party that ever had their HQ found to have been engaged in tax evasion (to the tune of 120k). Clues: (i) Its a party you are often at pains to defend. (ii) They like to call themselves the party of law and order. (iii) Their leader is currently the subject of a criminal investigation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 12:11:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.
Ah so not only did the IRA rob the Northern Bank, but they gave the money to SF? Evidence? Bah! Who needs it.

Meanwhile, there has been only one Irish party that ever had their HQ found to have been engaged in tax evasion (to the tune of 120k). Clues: (i) Its a party you are often at pains to defend. (ii) They like to call themselves the party of law and order. (iii) Their leader is currently the subject of a criminal investigation.

You probably believe OJ didn't kill Nicole Simpson and Ron Goodman then given he was found not guilty of killing them in court
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 01:58:12 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 12:11:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.
Ah so not only did the IRA rob the Northern Bank, but they gave the money to SF? Evidence? Bah! Who needs it.

Meanwhile, there has been only one Irish party that ever had their HQ found to have been engaged in tax evasion (to the tune of 120k). Clues: (i) Its a party you are often at pains to defend. (ii) They like to call themselves the party of law and order. (iii) Their leader is currently the subject of a criminal investigation.

You probably believe OJ didn't kill Nicole Simpson and Ron Goodman then given he was found not guilty of killing them in court
Snapchap must also believe the Paras didn't murder anybody on Bloody Sunday given none of them have been convicted

Presumably he believes the bullets that killed the innocents that day appeared out of thin air, like magic

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 01:59:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.
Ah so not only did the IRA rob the Northern Bank, but they gave the money to SF? Evidence? Bah! Who needs it.

Meanwhile, there has been only one Irish party that ever had their HQ found to have been engaged in tax evasion (to the tune of 120k). Clues: (i) Its a party you are often at pains to defend. (ii) They like to call themselves the party of law and order. (iii) Their leader is currently the subject of a criminal investigation.
Tax evasion?

Surely tax evasion makes people "good Republicans"?

At least that's what Sinn Fein tell us
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 01:59:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.
Ah so not only did the IRA rob the Northern Bank, but they gave the money to SF? Evidence? Bah! Who needs it.

Meanwhile, there has been only one Irish party that ever had their HQ found to have been engaged in tax evasion (to the tune of 120k). Clues: (i) Its a party you are often at pains to defend. (ii) They like to call themselves the party of law and order. (iii) Their leader is currently the subject of a criminal investigation.
Tax evasion?

Surely tax evasion makes people "good Republicans"?

At least that's what Sinn Fein tell us

You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 01:59:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.
Ah so not only did the IRA rob the Northern Bank, but they gave the money to SF? Evidence? Bah! Who needs it.

Meanwhile, there has been only one Irish party that ever had their HQ found to have been engaged in tax evasion (to the tune of 120k). Clues: (i) Its a party you are often at pains to defend. (ii) They like to call themselves the party of law and order. (iii) Their leader is currently the subject of a criminal investigation.
Tax evasion?

Surely tax evasion makes people "good Republicans"?

At least that's what Sinn Fein tell us

You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Wasn't false, it was true

According to your logic you're now telling us that the Paras didn't kill anybody on Bloody Sunday

Aren't you?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 21, 2021, 02:51:56 PM
This one is an absolute belter.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/2/6/26574b5bd8b5c876ee472e03dc87a52c4bee0c77.png)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 21, 2021, 02:53:08 PM
Jesus Sid  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 01:59:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.
Ah so not only did the IRA rob the Northern Bank, but they gave the money to SF? Evidence? Bah! Who needs it.

Meanwhile, there has been only one Irish party that ever had their HQ found to have been engaged in tax evasion (to the tune of 120k). Clues: (i) Its a party you are often at pains to defend. (ii) They like to call themselves the party of law and order. (iii) Their leader is currently the subject of a criminal investigation.
Tax evasion?

Surely tax evasion makes people "good Republicans"?

At least that's what Sinn Fein tell us

You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Wasn't false, it was true

According to your logic you're now telling us that the Paras didn't kill anybody on Bloody Sunday

Aren't you?

You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 05:55:44 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 01:59:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 21, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 21, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
It probably came from the Northern Bank money the IRA *allegedly" helped them acquire.
Ah so not only did the IRA rob the Northern Bank, but they gave the money to SF? Evidence? Bah! Who needs it.

Meanwhile, there has been only one Irish party that ever had their HQ found to have been engaged in tax evasion (to the tune of 120k). Clues: (i) Its a party you are often at pains to defend. (ii) They like to call themselves the party of law and order. (iii) Their leader is currently the subject of a criminal investigation.
Tax evasion?

Surely tax evasion makes people "good Republicans"?

At least that's what Sinn Fein tell us

You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Wasn't false, it was true

According to your logic you're now telling us that the Paras didn't kill anybody on Bloody Sunday

Aren't you?

You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.

I laughed when you , of all people, called me a lowlife  ;D

Now you're defending the Paras on Bloody Sunday, saying they're guilty of nothing because they weren't convicted  ;D

Seems like you're a closet British Army lover  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on March 30, 2021, 02:01:31 PM
PPS rules there will be no prosecutions over Bobby Storey's funeral.  My deepest condolences go to Stephen Nolan and the BBC...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 30, 2021, 02:36:24 PM
Arlene calling a press conference at half 3 and said there'll be consequences!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.

The regulations just at the time of the Storey funeral were a bit vague, and not capable of being enforced.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2021, 02:50:52 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 30, 2021, 02:36:24 PM
Arlene calling a press conference at half 3 and said there'll be consequences!

Chief Constable already getting it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 30, 2021, 02:52:17 PM
Did they actually break any rules?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2021, 02:50:52 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 30, 2021, 02:36:24 PM
Arlene calling a press conference at half 3 and said there'll be consequences!

Chief Constable already getting it.
If he wasn't sacked for standing in Cross armed to the teeth with his goons on Christmas Day he never will be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on March 30, 2021, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.

PPS have released a statement giving the reasons for this decision.  It's worth a read.  However it will not fill you with confidence regarding the competence of politicians, police or civil servants in NI.

Basically on the day Storey was buried the regulations were unclear and contradictory.  SF and the Storey family had kept the PSNI aware of the details of the funeral for a number of days before hand.  At no stage did the PSNI point out that these arrangements might break Covid regs.  This was against PSNI protocol.  No prospect of a conviction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.
Brilliant. Although you're a bit slow coming to this conclusion
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2021, 02:50:52 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 30, 2021, 02:36:24 PM
Arlene calling a press conference at half 3 and said there'll be consequences!

Chief Constable already getting it.

He has a trial of destruction in his wake. He should be handing in his notice. From the Crossmaglen stunt on Christmas day to the heavy handed approach at the Sean Graham's bookmakers memorial, and a host of other examples, we'd be better served if he resigned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on March 30, 2021, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.

The regulations just at the time of the Storey funeral were a bit vague, and not capable of being enforced.

This is more or less it.  New regs came in on 29 June.  Someone must have noticed they were unclear as they were tidied up on 2 July.  Storey funeral was on 30 June, so on that day there were contradictory regs about attendance at funerals, cemeteries and requiem masses.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 30, 2021, 03:05:00 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on March 30, 2021, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.

The regulations just at the time of the Storey funeral were a bit vague, and not capable of being enforced.

This is more or less it.  New regs came in on 29 June.  Someone must have noticed they were unclear as they were tidied up on 2 July.  Storey funeral was on 30 June, so on that day there were contradictory regs about attendance at funerals, cemeteries and requiem masses.

Is it then acceptable for a party of government to either exploit those regulations given they knew they were unclear and needed "tidied up" Or did SF just go against them? Regardless of what the regs said exactly this took place in the middle of a pandemic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 03:09:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 03:05:00 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on March 30, 2021, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.

The regulations just at the time of the Storey funeral were a bit vague, and not capable of being enforced.

This is more or less it.  New regs came in on 29 June.  Someone must have noticed they were unclear as they were tidied up on 2 July.  Storey funeral was on 30 June, so on that day there were contradictory regs about attendance at funerals, cemeteries and requiem masses.

Is it then acceptable for a party of government to either exploit those regulations given they knew they were unclear and needed "tidied up" Or did SF just go against them? Regardless of what the regs said exactly this took place in the middle of a pandemic.
Yawnnnn
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on March 30, 2021, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 03:05:00 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on March 30, 2021, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.

The regulations just at the time of the Storey funeral were a bit vague, and not capable of being enforced.

This is more or less it.  New regs came in on 29 June.  Someone must have noticed they were unclear as they were tidied up on 2 July.  Storey funeral was on 30 June, so on that day there were contradictory regs about attendance at funerals, cemeteries and requiem masses.

Is it then acceptable for a party of government to either exploit those regulations given they knew they were unclear and needed "tidied up" Or did SF just go against them? Regardless of what the regs said exactly this took place in the middle of a pandemic.

You might be over thinking this a bit or giving SF a too much credit for being clever.  The PSNI need to take a lot of the flak here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 30, 2021, 03:26:47 PM
There's probably quite a long list of people who got away with stuff on the fine etc front. SF are far from exclusive here. I think this is more reflective of a 2 tier society than anything. Joe Bloggs would get fined no bother but not various protests, these funerals etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 30, 2021, 03:26:47 PM
There's probably quite a long list of people who got away with stuff on the fine etc front. SF are far from exclusive here. I think this is more reflective of a 2 tier society than anything. Joe Bloggs would get fined no bother but not various protests, these funerals etc.

Yeah it's different rules, it shouldnt have happened & made O'Neill look like a hypocrite as she castigated the BLM protesters just a few weeks before the Storey funeral accusing them of potentially spreading Covid.  The political class don't see the same rules that Joe Bloggs has to adhere to applying to them. But it would have been politically very difficult and ultimately more hassle than it was worth to pursue prosecutions from this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 03:41:53 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on March 30, 2021, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.

The regulations just at the time of the Storey funeral were a bit vague, and not capable of being enforced.

This is more or less it.  New regs came in on 29 June.  Someone must have noticed they were unclear as they were tidied up on 2 July.  Storey funeral was on 30 June, so on that day there were contradictory regs about attendance at funerals, cemeteries and requiem masses.

No they weren't that confusing, everyone knew at the time it was wrong. Let's be honest here 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 30, 2021, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 30, 2021, 03:26:47 PM
There's probably quite a long list of people who got away with stuff on the fine etc front. SF are far from exclusive here. I think this is more reflective of a 2 tier society than anything. Joe Bloggs would get fined no bother but not various protests, these funerals etc.

Yeah it's different rules, it shouldnt have happened & made O'Neill look like a hypocrite as she castigated the BLM protesters just a few weeks before the Storey funeral accusing them of potentially spreading Covid.  The political class don't see the same rules that Joe Bloggs has to adhere to applying to them. But it would have been politically very difficult and ultimately more hassle than it was worth to pursue prosecutions from this

Yeah those are pretty much my thoughts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 30, 2021, 03:46:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Clearly now the Covid regulations are in the bin. No one can be seriously thinking about obeying them now. The police and the PPS have lost all authority. The game is up.

The regulations just at the time of the Storey funeral were a bit vague, and not capable of being enforced.

Why was Michelle telling us what to do then? The ordinary voter will see through this shite. SF are below contempt here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:48:58 PM
SF were incredibly stupid to mark the Storey funeral as they did. They may well have been within the rules but certainly not within the spirit. having said that there are a lot of glass house with broken windows today. The reality has been the funerals have been a long running source of restriction breaking, whether it be wakes or congregating outside churches or in grave yards. Every single funeral in my area both Protestant and Catholic has had more mourners than allowed and no social distancing. let's not forget a government minister was at the Garda funeral down south. Funerals are a touchstone for Irish people of all dominations and it is extremely difficult to not attend to show sympathy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 03:51:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:48:58 PM
SF were incredibly stupid to mark the Storey funeral as they did. They may well have been within the rules but certainly not within the spirit. having said that there are a lot of glass house with broken windows today. The reality has been the funerals have been a long running source of restriction breaking, whether it be wakes or congregating outside churches or in grave yards. Every single funeral in my area both Protestant and Catholic has had more mourners than allowed and no social distancing. let's not forget a government minister was at the Garda funeral down south. Funerals are a touchstone for Irish people of all dominations and it is extremely difficult to not attend to show sympathy.

I know of plenty of funerals with half a dozen people at them due to the restrictions & your point about them being "within the rules" is incorrect
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 03:51:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:48:58 PM
SF were incredibly stupid to mark the Storey funeral as they did. They may well have been within the rules but certainly not within the spirit. having said that there are a lot of glass house with broken windows today. The reality has been the funerals have been a long running source of restriction breaking, whether it be wakes or congregating outside churches or in grave yards. Every single funeral in my area both Protestant and Catholic has had more mourners than allowed and no social distancing. let's not forget a government minister was at the Garda funeral down south. Funerals are a touchstone for Irish people of all dominations and it is extremely difficult to not attend to show sympathy.

I know of plenty of funerals with half a dozen people at them due to the restrictions & your point about them being "within the rules" is incorrect
There were 30 of them socially distanced behind the hearse, so with in the rules. The spirit was broken by proceeding with hundreds along the route. Mind you was the same at Humes funeral as I recall.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on March 30, 2021, 03:55:12 PM
Read the report from the PPS. It's only 9 or 10 pages.  It lays out pretty clearly why they couldn't proceed with prosecutions.  The PSNI didn't follow their own best practice.  The same regs that restricted funerals to 30 people also gave an exemption on numbers for funerals.  The regs that restricted numbers attending the funeral mass also allowed as many people as wanted to go to a funeral mass as long as they social distanced.  The law was badly written, confusing and even contradictory.   That's why they can't be prosecuted, they would have a pretty air tight defence.  SF didn't know that, of course.  It was a coincidence that the regs were a mess on that particular day. They still made fools of everyone. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Anyone criticising anyone for going to a funeral, trying to tell someone not to go to a funeral or using a funeral for political point scoring is a lowlife
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Anyone criticising anyone for going to a funeral, trying to tell someone not to go to a funeral or using a funeral for political point scoring is a lowlife

Do you understand why people were being asked not to go to funerals ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 30, 2021, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 03:51:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:48:58 PM
SF were incredibly stupid to mark the Storey funeral as they did. They may well have been within the rules but certainly not within the spirit. having said that there are a lot of glass house with broken windows today. The reality has been the funerals have been a long running source of restriction breaking, whether it be wakes or congregating outside churches or in grave yards. Every single funeral in my area both Protestant and Catholic has had more mourners than allowed and no social distancing. let's not forget a government minister was at the Garda funeral down south. Funerals are a touchstone for Irish people of all dominations and it is extremely difficult to not attend to show sympathy.

I know of plenty of funerals with half a dozen people at them due to the restrictions & your point about them being "within the rules" is incorrect
There were 30 of them socially distanced behind the hearse, so with in the rules. The spirit was broken by proceeding with hundreds along the route. Mind you was the same at Humes funeral as I recall.

That was only one element. There were breachs at the Graveside oration and also at Roselawn Cemetery.
In addition pointing out that lots Funerals may have been in breach of the regs is not a defence. SF are one of the parties of government in the North. They should be seen to be beyond reproach. Clearly they are not. No one in SF will be sanctioned but certainly the Chief Constable should be clearing his desk.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Anyone criticising anyone for going to a funeral, trying to tell someone not to go to a funeral or using a funeral for political point scoring is a lowlife

Do you understand why people were being asked not to go to funerals ?
It doesn't matter. It's no ones place to say who gets to attend funerals
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 30, 2021, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Anyone criticising anyone for going to a funeral, trying to tell someone not to go to a funeral or using a funeral for political point scoring is a lowlife

Do you understand why people were being asked not to go to funerals ?
It doesn't matter. It's no ones place to say who gets to attend funerals

Mmm didnt Michelle tell us we couldnt??? Astounding post
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 30, 2021, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Anyone criticising anyone for going to a funeral, trying to tell someone not to go to a funeral or using a funeral for political point scoring is a lowlife

Do you understand why people were being asked not to go to funerals ?
It doesn't matter. It's no ones place to say who gets to attend funerals

f**k me, I don't know what to say to this. Crazy thought process.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:36:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 30, 2021, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Anyone criticising anyone for going to a funeral, trying to tell someone not to go to a funeral or using a funeral for political point scoring is a lowlife

Do you understand why people were being asked not to go to funerals ?
It doesn't matter. It's no ones place to say who gets to attend funerals

Mmm didnt Michelle tell us we couldnt??? Astounding post
And she was wrong to!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Anyone criticising anyone for going to a funeral, trying to tell someone not to go to a funeral or using a funeral for political point scoring is a lowlife

Do you understand why people were being asked not to go to funerals ?
It doesn't matter. It's no ones place to say who gets to attend funerals

f**k me, I don't know what to say to this. Crazy thought process.
I'd say getting the chance to go to a loved ones funeral is more important than the risk you might catch a sniffle....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on March 30, 2021, 05:14:45 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Anyone criticising anyone for going to a funeral, trying to tell someone not to go to a funeral or using a funeral for political point scoring is a lowlife

Do you understand why people were being asked not to go to funerals ?
It doesn't matter. It's no ones place to say who gets to attend funerals

f**k me, I don't know what to say to this. Crazy thought process.
I'd say getting the chance to go to a loved ones funeral is more important than the risk you might catch a sniffle....

A sniffle?

The loved ones of over 2k people in the North might disagree with the sniffle analogy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 30, 2021, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:48:58 PM
SF were incredibly stupid to mark the Storey funeral as they did. They may well have been within the rules but certainly not within the spirit. having said that there are a lot of glass house with broken windows today. The reality has been the funerals have been a long running source of restriction breaking, whether it be wakes or congregating outside churches or in grave yards. Every single funeral in my area both Protestant and Catholic has had more mourners than allowed and no social distancing. let's not forget a government minister was at the Garda funeral down south. Funerals are a touchstone for Irish people of all dominations and it is extremely difficult to not attend to show sympathy.

That's just not true in terms of funeral attendances. I couldn't go to a family funeral recently because of Covid restrictions and I know others who have a similar story.

It's disappointing but not surprising SF will not face sanctions and raises credibility problem for the PSNI and Lockdown enforcement
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 30, 2021, 06:00:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 30, 2021, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:48:58 PM
SF were incredibly stupid to mark the Storey funeral as they did. They may well have been within the rules but certainly not within the spirit. having said that there are a lot of glass house with broken windows today. The reality has been the funerals have been a long running source of restriction breaking, whether it be wakes or congregating outside churches or in grave yards. Every single funeral in my area both Protestant and Catholic has had more mourners than allowed and no social distancing. let's not forget a government minister was at the Garda funeral down south. Funerals are a touchstone for Irish people of all dominations and it is extremely difficult to not attend to show sympathy.

That's just not true in terms of funeral attendances. I couldn't go to a family funeral recently because of Covid restrictions and I know others who have a similar story.

It's disappointing but not surprising SF will not face sanctions and raises credibility problem for the PSNI and Lockdown enforcement

Odd you aren't looking for Charlie Flanagan or Drew Harris to face charges.

Full of shit as usual. You really are an embarrassment of a poster.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on March 30, 2021, 06:04:30 PM
They ballsed up massively. Their leadership had time to do the right thing but they couldn't resist the big set piece. They'd have been much better off being prosecuted and they could have took their medicine and moved on.  Instead this will just linger on unresolved with more damage done to reputation.

SF goal is a united Ireland but they continue to be despised by many Unionists due to their actions and words, which only sets back the day when a United Ireland can be achieved.  They are very slow at working that out, presumably like the Unionist leadership, hand tied for some unknown reason by their hardliner grass roots (small minority).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 30, 2021, 06:07:33 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 30, 2021, 06:04:30 PM
They ballsed up massively. Their leadership had time to do the right thing but they couldn't resist the big set piece. They'd have been much better off being prosecuted and they could have took their medicine and moved on.  Instead this will just linger on unresolved with more damage done to reputation.

SF goal is a united Ireland but they continue to be despised by many Unionists due to their actions and words, which only sets back the day when a United Ireland can be achieved.  They are very slow at working that out, presumably like the Unionist leadership, hand tied for some unknown reason by their hardliner grass roots (small minority).

Which nationalists do Unionists not despise? It's what unionism is all about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on March 30, 2021, 06:17:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 30, 2021, 06:07:33 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 30, 2021, 06:04:30 PM
They ballsed up massively. Their leadership had time to do the right thing but they couldn't resist the big set piece. They'd have been much better off being prosecuted and they could have took their medicine and moved on.  Instead this will just linger on unresolved with more damage done to reputation.

SF goal is a united Ireland but they continue to be despised by many Unionists due to their actions and words, which only sets back the day when a United Ireland can be achieved.  They are very slow at working that out, presumably like the Unionist leadership, hand tied for some unknown reason by their hardliner grass roots (small minority).


Which nationalists do Unionists not despise? It's what unionism is all about.

That's just pub talk. Let's have a proper debate. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 30, 2021, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 30, 2021, 06:17:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 30, 2021, 06:07:33 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 30, 2021, 06:04:30 PM
They ballsed up massively. Their leadership had time to do the right thing but they couldn't resist the big set piece. They'd have been much better off being prosecuted and they could have took their medicine and moved on.  Instead this will just linger on unresolved with more damage done to reputation.

SF goal is a united Ireland but they continue to be despised by many Unionists due to their actions and words, which only sets back the day when a United Ireland can be achieved.  They are very slow at working that out, presumably like the Unionist leadership, hand tied for some unknown reason by their hardliner grass roots (small minority).


Which nationalists do Unionists not despise? It's what unionism is all about.

That's just pub talk. Let's have a proper debate.

Answer the question.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on March 30, 2021, 06:22:38 PM
Covid deniers crossed with touchy Shinners who can't handle the slightest bit of criticism. Unbearable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on March 30, 2021, 06:32:44 PM
I don't agree with what SF did in regards the funeral but the reality is the DUP and Jim Allister would only be happy if the PSNI were batten charging the taigs of the street and firing plastic bullets at them. It is all part of the overall problem a lot of Unionism has, they cant Lord it over the fenians and use the police force has there enforcers, the days of dragging people of the road to let Big Ian and Trimble march to Drumcree are over and they can rationalise this in there mind.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on March 30, 2021, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 30, 2021, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:48:58 PM
SF were incredibly stupid to mark the Storey funeral as they did. They may well have been within the rules but certainly not within the spirit. having said that there are a lot of glass house with broken windows today. The reality has been the funerals have been a long running source of restriction breaking, whether it be wakes or congregating outside churches or in grave yards. Every single funeral in my area both Protestant and Catholic has had more mourners than allowed and no social distancing. let's not forget a government minister was at the Garda funeral down south. Funerals are a touchstone for Irish people of all dominations and it is extremely difficult to not attend to show sympathy.

That's just not true in terms of funeral attendances. I couldn't go to a family funeral recently because of Covid restrictions and I know others who have a similar story.

It's disappointing but not surprising SF will not face sanctions and raises credibility problem for the PSNI and Lockdown enforcement
We had four (4) people at my father's funeral, we had to tell to people not to attend for their own safety

His two sisters were not there for their own safety

Given that SF have gotten off scot free, maybe we should have just told everybody to attend?

I kind of feel a bit foolish now keeping to the regulations and more

Stupid me and my family, thinking of other people's safety



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on March 30, 2021, 06:49:23 PM
Sid I'm very sorry to hear that. Your sacrifice may well have helped stop the spread of covid which unquestionably was the right thing to do. You should have no regrets.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 30, 2021, 07:07:03 PM
I know from my own experience over the past 12 months. I've attended probably about 7-8 funerals at various stages in the past year. Some locally and some further afield. At the burials I would say the common gatherings have been probably around the hundred mark anyway. People will want to pay their respects.

The hypocrisy here of some trying to turn this into political point scoring is pretty shameless as far as I can say. You just need to compare and contrast the reaction of the Garda funeral down south to the Storey funeral up north.

(https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4284830.1592756772!/image/image.jpg)

(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229405.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_JS213951062.jpg)

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/e8b26/39303599.ece/AUTOCROP/w1240h700/2020-06-22_new_59801659_I2.JPG)

Versus

(https://mmo.aiircdn.com/151/5efb4b87eda51.jpg)

(https://mmo.aiircdn.com/151/5f02ee1860e18.jpg)



Hypocrisy is alive and well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on March 30, 2021, 07:47:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 30, 2021, 07:07:03 PM
I know from my own experience over the past 12 months. I've attended probably about 7-8 funerals at various stages in the past year. Some locally and some further afield. At the burials I would say the common gatherings have been probably around the hundred mark anyway. People will want to pay their respects.

The hypocrisy here of some trying to turn this into political point scoring is pretty shameless as far as I can say. You just need to compare and contrast the reaction of the Garda funeral down south to the Storey funeral up north.

(https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4284830.1592756772!/image/image.jpg)

(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229405.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_JS213951062.jpg)

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/e8b26/39303599.ece/AUTOCROP/w1240h700/2020-06-22_new_59801659_I2.JPG)

Versus

(https://mmo.aiircdn.com/151/5efb4b87eda51.jpg)

(https://mmo.aiircdn.com/151/5f02ee1860e18.jpg)



Hypocrisy is alive and well.

2 wrongs and all that. It was wrong. That's a simple fact. Was a classic case of do as I say not as I do. I know SF members who disagreed with it. I'm a sf voter. It was just wrong. Nolan didn't help with his constant going on about it. Think that made a lot of folk think frig it who cares. But it was wrong and cannot be justified IMHO.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 30, 2021, 07:53:49 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 30, 2021, 07:47:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 30, 2021, 07:07:03 PM
I know from my own experience over the past 12 months. I've attended probably about 7-8 funerals at various stages in the past year. Some locally and some further afield. At the burials I would say the common gatherings have been probably around the hundred mark anyway. People will want to pay their respects.

The hypocrisy here of some trying to turn this into political point scoring is pretty shameless as far as I can say. You just need to compare and contrast the reaction of the Garda funeral down south to the Storey funeral up north.

(https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4284830.1592756772!/image/image.jpg)

(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229405.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_JS213951062.jpg)

(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/e8b26/39303599.ece/AUTOCROP/w1240h700/2020-06-22_new_59801659_I2.JPG)

Versus

(https://mmo.aiircdn.com/151/5efb4b87eda51.jpg)

(https://mmo.aiircdn.com/151/5f02ee1860e18.jpg)



Hypocrisy is alive and well.

2 wrongs and all that. It was wrong. That's a simple fact. Was a classic case of do as I say not as I do. I know SF members who disagreed with it. I'm a sf voter. It was just wrong. Nolan didn't help with his constant going on about it. Think that made a lot of folk think frig it who cares. But it was wrong and cannot be justified IMHO.

I have absolutely no issue with people criticising it at all. It was a spectacular own goal certainly but there is a huge political element to the criticism to it at the same time.

The Garda's funeral down south took place somewhere in and around that time too, where similar restrictions were in place. Both funerals breached those regulations, both funerals had political representatives and high ranking public servants breaching those regulations. Both funerals could be accused of being hijacked by a political party/state body. And criticism is certainly justified of that in both cases.

However only controversy surrounded one of the funerals.

I don't have an issue with people condemning it but I would say with funerals people are going to want to come out and pay their respects and give people the send off they deserve. It was certainly poor leadership from SF relative to the circumstances.

But it was also extremely poor leadership from FG and the Gardai down south in relation to the funeral in Mayo.

Only one drew widespread condemnation and criticism though. Only one had an investigation opened up into it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rich Ricci on March 30, 2021, 08:04:06 PM
I've no love Sinn Fein whatsoever but the reaction of this has baffled me slightly. The DUP were outraged at the time of the funeral and were refusing to do joint press conferences and the likes but they caved and started working in a fairly co-operative executive again. Now that SF have been given the all clear by PPS they kick up a stink. Were they expecting to be able to get rid of Michelle O'Neill and the rest through prosecution and now that plan has failed they've been left with egg on their faces?

To me they've lost credibility, they should have stuck to their guns instead of hoping the PPS do the job for them.

Seen Eastwood piping up with his usual dose of sh*t but once I saw the ridiculous grey patch it's hard to take anything he says seriously.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 30, 2021, 08:05:30 PM
Arlene Foster says the police chief's position is untenable. Her position has been untenable for a very long time but it hasn't stopped her ;D

The dup are really scrambling for me. They don't know how to correct the sea border thing which is pretty much all on them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on March 30, 2021, 10:07:43 PM
No chance the DUP pull the assembly down in centenary year, and not a few short months before orangefest where they'll expect to go uber staunch mixing 1690 and 1921,but let them swivel, the direction of travel is set, the Brits are done with them, UI is on the horizon
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: David McKeown on March 30, 2021, 10:51:15 PM
Setting aside the moral issues regarding the funeral on which I feel there are strong arguments on both sides I have to say I agree with the PPS on a purely legal basis. I haven't kept up to date on every single amendment to the regulations but I have had occasion to the consult them a number of times. Every time I did I found them to be poorly drafted, not particularly well thought out and potentially disproportionate. I think for that the Assembly deserve considerable criticism for that and the hatchet job done today on the PPS and the PSNI has been excellent deflecting from the fact that the approach to the regulation drafting has been haphazard and poorly implemented.

All that said the decision creates no form of precedence and each case will have to be judged on its own facts so I'm interested to see the approach adopted moving forward.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on March 31, 2021, 12:44:19 AM
Quote from: tiempo on March 30, 2021, 10:07:43 PM
No chance the DUP pull the assembly down in centenary year, and not a few short months before orangefest where they'll expect to go uber staunch mixing 1690 and 1921,but let them swivel, the direction of travel is set, the Brits are done with them, UI is on the horizon

Whatever way DUP turns, whatever it does, it is fucked. Scrambling about to get out of shit pile of its own making. Delicious to watch the loyalist meltdown. I'd love DUP to bring Stormont down, cos that would finally be its end.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on March 31, 2021, 06:08:46 AM
Quote from: red hander on March 31, 2021, 12:44:19 AM
Quote from: tiempo on March 30, 2021, 10:07:43 PM
No chance the DUP pull the assembly down in centenary year, and not a few short months before orangefest where they'll expect to go uber staunch mixing 1690 and 1921,but let them swivel, the direction of travel is set, the Brits are done with them, UI is on the horizon

Whatever way DUP turns, whatever it does, it is fucked. Scrambling about to get out of shit pile of its own making. Delicious to watch the loyalist meltdown. I'd love DUP to bring Stormont down, cos that would finally be its end.

And the DUP know that will be the case.  Stormont collapses again, I think it would bring a border poll even closer and sway alot of the middle ground undecideds to take the leap of faith in a new Ireland. 

On the otherhand, the DUP being as short sighted as they are, they need to play the orange vs green card at the next election at some attempt of survival, and the most effective way to do that is not to be part of a Stormont executive with SF.  Either way, the DUP is screwed, only one unavoidable end for them in all of this ... I assume Barroness Foster elect would need to commence her house hunting in leafy Somerset or Kent should she wish to move!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 31, 2021, 07:27:54 AM
If they collapse stormont they can do nothing about sea border / abortion laws / gay marriage etc. They are really scrambling here and I don't think collapsing it is in their interests.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 31, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
Special extended Nolan show this morning. I won't be listening.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on March 31, 2021, 09:47:22 AM
Missed the name of the Gold Commander from the day but he's making a bit of a twat of Nolan here. Nolan demanding to know about why/how SF members could act as stewards and direct traffic. Gets told that that's standard practice in NI and the rest of the UK at, for example, parades. Talking about proportionality of response, Nolan demands to know if it's ok to break the law of you only break it a bit. "Nobody expects to get prosecuted for driving at 31 in a 30 zone". Silence from Nolan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 10:58:44 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 30, 2021, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 03:51:23 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 30, 2021, 03:48:58 PM
SF were incredibly stupid to mark the Storey funeral as they did. They may well have been within the rules but certainly not within the spirit. having said that there are a lot of glass house with broken windows today. The reality has been the funerals have been a long running source of restriction breaking, whether it be wakes or congregating outside churches or in grave yards. Every single funeral in my area both Protestant and Catholic has had more mourners than allowed and no social distancing. let's not forget a government minister was at the Garda funeral down south. Funerals are a touchstone for Irish people of all dominations and it is extremely difficult to not attend to show sympathy.

I know of plenty of funerals with half a dozen people at them due to the restrictions & your point about them being "within the rules" is incorrect

There were 30 of them socially distanced behind the hearse, so with in the rules. The spirit was broken by proceeding with hundreds along the route. Mind you was the same at Humes funeral as I recall.


That was only one element. There were breachs at the Graveside oration and also at Roselawn Cemetery.
In addition pointing out that lots Funerals may have been in breach of the regs is not a defence. SF are one of the parties of government in the North. They should be seen to be beyond reproach. Clearly they are not. No one in SF will be sanctioned but certainly the Chief Constable should be clearing his desk.
I am not defending SF. In my opinion they got this whole wrong and O'Neill, Ml etc... should not have been there it looked wrong and sent the wrong message. I do however have an issue with those who said nothing at the crowds at Humes funeral or that of the Garda or celebrated Rangers league win jumping up and down like it is only SF at fault here. The reaction from Foster saying that it basically gives the green light to others is indefensible. Even though I and many others have seen theses breaches we continue to do what is right because it is the right thing to do. I have 3 members of my immediate family on the front line and don't want to make things worse for them. SF need to don the sackcloth and ashes here. But the cynical what about the shinners mantra from Eastwood and others is barf inducing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 11:01:27 AM
Any unionist who believes that nationalists care about Stormont collapsing is delusional.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

It is a question of leadership. The top brass of SF made sure they were seen at the Storey funeral, the leaders of FF and FG did not go to the Garda funeral and the Shankhill road was a crowd of yobs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

It is a question of leadership. The top brass of SF made sure they were seen at the Storey funeral, the leaders of FF and FG did not go to the Garda funeral and the Shankhill road was a crowd of yobs.

That's just factually incorrect.

Here is then Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan at the Garda's funeral.

(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229408.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_JS213954723.jpg)

Here is current Taoiseach Micheal Martin at John Hume's funeral.

(https://www.independent.ie/incoming/0464f/39426140.ece/AUTOCROP/w620/FUNERAL%20H%2044.jpg)

Here is president Michael D Higgins at Hume's funeral

(https://www.independent.ie/incoming/47b96/39426142.ece/AUTOCROP/h1060/LAND-HUME%2027.jpg)



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

The family of the garda asked people not to attend. SF (who put in place policies to stop large gatherings) planned for having a large attendance at the funeral and arranged for marshals to help deal with the crowd. I'd say that's a major difference there
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 01:21:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

It is a question of leadership. The top brass of SF made sure they were seen at the Storey funeral, the leaders of FF and FG did not go to the Garda funeral and the Shankhill road was a crowd of yobs.

Pictured at the forefront of these celebrations where two prominent community "stakeholders" that Arlene is often in conversations with, one from East Belfast...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

The family of the garda asked people not to attend. SF (who put in place policies to stop large gatherings) planned for having a large attendance at the funeral and arranged for marshals to help deal with the crowd. I'd say that's a major difference there
say what, who are the lads in the white shirts then let alone all the other guards?

(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229405.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_JS213951062.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:31:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

The family of the garda asked people not to attend. SF (who put in place policies to stop large gatherings) planned for having a large attendance at the funeral and arranged for marshals to help deal with the crowd. I'd say that's a major difference there
say what, who are the lads in the white shirts then let alone all the other guards?

(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229405.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_JS213951062.jpg)

The funeral notice issued by the family (that I'm not going to post) asked people not to attend due to covid restrictions. SF did the opposite. It's bizarre how SF supporters only defence is to try and blame everybody else. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 31, 2021, 01:36:34 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:31:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

The family of the garda asked people not to attend. SF (who put in place policies to stop large gatherings) planned for having a large attendance at the funeral and arranged for marshals to help deal with the crowd. I'd say that's a major difference there
say what, who are the lads in the white shirts then let alone all the other guards?

(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229405.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_JS213951062.jpg)

The funeral notice issued by the family (that I'm not going to post) asked people not to attend due to covid restrictions. SF did the opposite. It's bizarre how SF supporters only defence is to try and blame everybody else.

Can absolutely do no wrong. Cult like devotion. Utterly bizarre for what is supposed to be a political party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 01:41:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 01:36:34 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:31:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

The family of the garda asked people not to attend. SF (who put in place policies to stop large gatherings) planned for having a large attendance at the funeral and arranged for marshals to help deal with the crowd. I'd say that's a major difference there
say what, who are the lads in the white shirts then let alone all the other guards?

(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229405.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_JS213951062.jpg)

The funeral notice issued by the family (that I'm not going to post) asked people not to attend due to covid restrictions. SF did the opposite. It's bizarre how SF supporters only defence is to try and blame everybody else.

Can absolutely do no wrong. Cult like devotion. Utterly bizarre for what is supposed to be a political party.
Of course they can do wrong. They've already conceded that they got it wrong. Has Charlie Flanagan done so yet? Or has the opportunistic little hypocrite Colum Eastwood apologised for breaching social distancing at John Hume's funeral yet?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 01:42:13 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:31:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

The family of the garda asked people not to attend. SF (who put in place policies to stop large gatherings) planned for having a large attendance at the funeral and arranged for marshals to help deal with the crowd. I'd say that's a major difference there
say what, who are the lads in the white shirts then let alone all the other guards?

(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229405.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_JS213951062.jpg)

The funeral notice issued by the family (that I'm not going to post) asked people not to attend due to covid restrictions. SF did the opposite. It's bizarre how SF supporters only defence is to try and blame everybody else.

Ok.

So you're saying the Gardai were wrong to hijack it?

Would equating the Storey family to the Garda family not be more an appropriate an analogy?

Would equating SF to the Gardai and gov ministers be a more appropriate scenario?

Will you toddle off now or will you answer the questions?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 01:45:36 PM
(https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article22229405.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_JS213951062.jpg)

Anyone want to count the number of Gardai for Dublin7?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on March 31, 2021, 01:45:55 PM
As far as I am aware, Michelle O'Neill already apologised for an error in judgement. What else could / should Sinn Fein do to satisfy those who are upset by the PPS ruling?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

It is a question of leadership. The top brass of SF made sure they were seen at the Storey funeral, the leaders of FF and FG did not go to the Garda funeral and the Shankhill road was a crowd of yobs.
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 12:46:40 PM
Shinners were wrong on the Storey Funeral, no doubts about that and they should have held their hands up irrespective if the PPS felt there was no charges to bring due to inconsistencies in the laws as set out at that time.

But as we well know hypocrisy is alive and well here by those who either turn a blind eye to the Garda funerals in Mayo or the Rangers celebrations on the Shankill Road.

The family of the garda asked people not to attend. SF (who put in place policies to stop large gatherings) planned for having a large attendance at the funeral and arranged for marshals to help deal with the crowd. I'd say that's a major difference there
If you knew anything about Republican communities up here, which your posts indicate you don't, you would know that if SF did nothing the Storey funeral would have been a free for all, thousands would have turned up anyway and SF would be pissing off a large chunk of their electorate. Again I think that they got it wrong, but I'd guess that they made a calculated decision that it would be worse to not be involved.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.

The mask slips. Your concern has nothing to do with public health. You're outrage is totally dependant on who was in the coffin - ergo you, like Column Eastwood and co. are just using a man's funeral (disregarding his family's grief) in order to score the cheapest of political points. Does covid not spread at Garda funerals, no?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.

The mask slips. Your concern has nothing to do with public health. You're outrage is totally dependant on who was in the coffin - ergo you, like Column Eastwood and co. are just using a man's funeral (disregarding his family's grief) in order to score the cheapest of political points. Does covid not spread at Garda funerals, no?

I'm not sure I was masking anything, I have been pretty upfront with my opinions. I'm not scoring political points because I am not a politician.
There is a public health issue absolutely. Regulations were broken at both funerals. But if Gerry Adams unelected citizen attends Bobby Storey Funeral it a breach but that's it. But once Mary Lou, Pearce Doherty, Michelle O'Neill (Deputy First Minister) attends then it is an issue. She is making the rules and then breaking them. Why is she allowed to attend a funeral that breaks regulations and rest of us not? Additionally there were further breaches at the Graveside Oration (Michelle O'Neill posed for pics with 2 Dublin SF members).

With regards to the Garda, Political Leaders should attend as they are representing the state and by extension all of the people. The Garda was murdered on duty. If he dies in his sleep off duty then no, they shouldn't attend. I think it's pretty clear. Many of the other attendees though have broken the regulations.

That's my view anyhow.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 03:06:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

And Drew Harris?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Windmill abu on March 31, 2021, 03:19:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.

The mask slips. Your concern has nothing to do with public health. You're outrage is totally dependant on who was in the coffin - ergo you, like Column Eastwood and co. are just using a man's funeral (disregarding his family's grief) in order to score the cheapest of political points. Does covid not spread at Garda funerals, no?

I'm not sure I was masking anything, I have been pretty upfront with my opinions. I'm not scoring political points because I am not a politician.
There is a public health issue absolutely. Regulations were broken at both funerals. But if Gerry Adams unelected citizen attends Bobby Storey Funeral it a breach but that's it. But once Mary Lou, Pearce Doherty, Michelle O'Neill (Deputy First Minister) attends then it is an issue. She is making the rules and then breaking them. Why is she allowed to attend a funeral that breaks regulations and rest of us not? Additionally there were further breaches at the Graveside Oration (Michelle O'Neill posed for pics with 2 Dublin SF members).

With regards to the Garda, Political Leaders should attend as they are representing the state and by extension all of the people. The Garda was murdered on duty. If he dies in his sleep off duty then no, they shouldn't attend. I think it's pretty clear. Many of the other attendees though have broken the regulations.

That's my view anyhow.

If it is ok to risk the health of the elderly and vulnerable because a Garda died on duty. Then why are the regulations there at all?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:21:41 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on March 31, 2021, 03:19:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.

The mask slips. Your concern has nothing to do with public health. You're outrage is totally dependant on who was in the coffin - ergo you, like Column Eastwood and co. are just using a man's funeral (disregarding his family's grief) in order to score the cheapest of political points. Does covid not spread at Garda funerals, no?

I'm not sure I was masking anything, I have been pretty upfront with my opinions. I'm not scoring political points because I am not a politician.
There is a public health issue absolutely. Regulations were broken at both funerals. But if Gerry Adams unelected citizen attends Bobby Storey Funeral it a breach but that's it. But once Mary Lou, Pearce Doherty, Michelle O'Neill (Deputy First Minister) attends then it is an issue. She is making the rules and then breaking them. Why is she allowed to attend a funeral that breaks regulations and rest of us not? Additionally there were further breaches at the Graveside Oration (Michelle O'Neill posed for pics with 2 Dublin SF members).

With regards to the Garda, Political Leaders should attend as they are representing the state and by extension all of the people. The Garda was murdered on duty. If he dies in his sleep off duty then no, they shouldn't attend. I think it's pretty clear. Many of the other attendees though have broken the regulations.

That's my view anyhow.

If it is ok to risk the health of the elderly and vulnerable because a Garda died on duty. Then why are the regulations there at all?

I think in those exceptional and very limited circumstances the state must attend the funeral in as covid compliant way as it can.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 03:23:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.

The mask slips. Your concern has nothing to do with public health. You're outrage is totally dependant on who was in the coffin - ergo you, like Column Eastwood and co. are just using a man's funeral (disregarding his family's grief) in order to score the cheapest of political points. Does covid not spread at Garda funerals, no?

I'm not sure I was masking anything, I have been pretty upfront with my opinions. I'm not scoring political points because I am not a politician.
There is a public health issue absolutely. Regulations were broken at both funerals. But if Gerry Adams unelected citizen attends Bobby Storey Funeral it a breach but that's it. But once Mary Lou, Pearce Doherty, Michelle O'Neill (Deputy First Minister) attends then it is an issue. She is making the rules and then breaking them. Why is she allowed to attend a funeral that breaks regulations and rest of us not? Additionally there were further breaches at the Graveside Oration (Michelle O'Neill posed for pics with 2 Dublin SF members).

With regards to the Garda, Political Leaders should attend as they are representing the state and by extension all of the people. The Garda was murdered on duty. If he dies in his sleep off duty then no, they shouldn't attend. I think it's pretty clear. Many of the other attendees though have broken the regulations.

That's my view anyhow.

I understand that sentiment but Covid regs are Covid regs so no deviation can be expected or explained away.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 03:26:20 PM
That sort of elitist attitude is why SDLP love to go down south and run for FG.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on March 31, 2021, 03:28:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 03:26:20 PM
That sort of elitist attitude is why SDLP love to go down south and run for FG.

Says the reader of right wing media arm Gript.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:43:20 PM
Quote from: Louther on March 31, 2021, 03:28:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 03:26:20 PM
That sort of elitist attitude is why SDLP love to go down south and run for FG.

Says the reader of right wing media arm Gript.

The shithead has been following me around the board all day. He'll f**k off for another few days now he's had his ass handed to him... again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: Louther on March 31, 2021, 03:28:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 03:26:20 PM
That sort of elitist attitude is why SDLP love to go down south and run for FG.

Says the reader of right wing media arm Gript.

What's griot?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 03:59:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 03:23:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.

The mask slips. Your concern has nothing to do with public health. You're outrage is totally dependant on who was in the coffin - ergo you, like Column Eastwood and co. are just using a man's funeral (disregarding his family's grief) in order to score the cheapest of political points. Does covid not spread at Garda funerals, no?

I'm not sure I was masking anything, I have been pretty upfront with my opinions. I'm not scoring political points because I am not a politician.
There is a public health issue absolutely. Regulations were broken at both funerals. But if Gerry Adams unelected citizen attends Bobby Storey Funeral it a breach but that's it. But once Mary Lou, Pearce Doherty, Michelle O'Neill (Deputy First Minister) attends then it is an issue. She is making the rules and then breaking them. Why is she allowed to attend a funeral that breaks regulations and rest of us not? Additionally there were further breaches at the Graveside Oration (Michelle O'Neill posed for pics with 2 Dublin SF members).

With regards to the Garda, Political Leaders should attend as they are representing the state and by extension all of the people. The Garda was murdered on duty. If he dies in his sleep off duty then no, they shouldn't attend. I think it's pretty clear. Many of the other attendees though have broken the regulations.

That's my view anyhow.

I understand that sentiment but Covid regs are Covid regs so no deviation can be expected or explained away.

SF supporters/leadership would disagree with you there unfortunately. It's a strange comparison when you compare the funeral of a garda who died in the line of duty with that of an IRA enforcer.

While both funerals broke covid guidelines only one was organised by a political party and attended by the leadership of the party. SF supporters seem to think the attendance at the garda funeral was somehow the fault/responsibility of political parties in the south, which again is a strange accusation, but the party and its supporters really are clutching at straws trying to justify their own actions so if you keep throwing mud something will stick seems to be the approach
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 04:00:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
I'm not sure I was masking anything, I have been pretty upfront with my opinions. I'm not scoring political points because I am not a politician.
You don't have to be a politican to try to political point score. Your chief hobby appears to be attacking SF on gaaboard. Using things like a funeral to do so is political point scoring.

Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
There is a public health issue absolutely. Regulations were broken at both funerals. But if Gerry Adams unelected citizen attends Bobby Storey Funeral it a breach but that's it. But once Mary Lou, Pearce Doherty, Michelle O'Neill (Deputy First Minister) attends then it is an issue.  She is making the rules and then breaking them.
That's a poor attempt at trying to excuse the attendance of Flanagan at the Garda Horkan funeral. He was the Justice Minister after all. Surely if any minister should be seen to not break the law, it's the justice minister?

Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
Why is she allowed to attend a funeral that breaks regulations and rest of us not? Additionally there were further breaches at the Graveside Oration (Michelle O'Neill posed for pics with 2 Dublin SF members).
She wasn't. She has accepted that, conceded it was wrong and co-operated with the investigation. Has Charlie Flanagan done any of those things? 

Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
With regards to the Garda, Political Leaders should attend as they are representing the state and by extension all of the people. The Garda was murdered on duty. If he dies in his sleep off duty then no, they shouldn't attend. I think it's pretty clear. Many of the other attendees though have broken the regulations.
That's my view anyhow.
So its quite fine to risk public health at some funerals, but not at others? If that's seriously your view, then you need to take a look at yourself. Incidentally, has Colum Eastwood apologised yet for standing shoulder to shoulder with Micheal Martin at John Hume's funeral? Has anyone ever asked him to? Oh yeah sorry, it's not about public health. I forgot that Covid understands the differences around who's remains were in the different coffins. You see, this is the telling bit: I'm quite prepared to say breaches at funerals by politicians were all wrong, yet those like yourself who are shouting the loudest about SF and Bobby Storey, are the very same ones who have routinely ignored/made excuses for other politicians at other funerals. Your real motivations as so utterly transparent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 04:00:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:43:20 PM
Quote from: Louther on March 31, 2021, 03:28:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 03:26:20 PM
That sort of elitist attitude is why SDLP love to go down south and run for FG.

Says the reader of right wing media arm Gript.

The shithead has been following me around the board all day. He'll f**k off for another few days now he's had his ass handed to him... again.

It's about time the moderator dealt with you, your insults and your bigotry.

You are the forum's answer to Gregory Campbell.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 04:01:28 PM
Absolutely no difference in these funerals and indeed Humes, breaches at all. Understandable or not. SF should be held to the same standard as all others. However some people hold them to a higher standard which is unfair. To be clear all these breaches are wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on March 31, 2021, 04:05:01 PM
LOL
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on March 31, 2021, 04:09:10 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 03:59:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 03:23:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.

The mask slips. Your concern has nothing to do with public health. You're outrage is totally dependant on who was in the coffin - ergo you, like Column Eastwood and co. are just using a man's funeral (disregarding his family's grief) in order to score the cheapest of political points. Does covid not spread at Garda funerals, no?

I'm not sure I was masking anything, I have been pretty upfront with my opinions. I'm not scoring political points because I am not a politician.
There is a public health issue absolutely. Regulations were broken at both funerals. But if Gerry Adams unelected citizen attends Bobby Storey Funeral it a breach but that's it. But once Mary Lou, Pearce Doherty, Michelle O'Neill (Deputy First Minister) attends then it is an issue. She is making the rules and then breaking them. Why is she allowed to attend a funeral that breaks regulations and rest of us not? Additionally there were further breaches at the Graveside Oration (Michelle O'Neill posed for pics with 2 Dublin SF members).

With regards to the Garda, Political Leaders should attend as they are representing the state and by extension all of the people. The Garda was murdered on duty. If he dies in his sleep off duty then no, they shouldn't attend. I think it's pretty clear. Many of the other attendees though have broken the regulations.

That's my view anyhow.

I understand that sentiment but Covid regs are Covid regs so no deviation can be expected or explained away.

SF supporters/leadership would disagree with you there unfortunately. It's a strange comparison when you compare the funeral of a garda who died in the line of duty with that of an IRA enforcer.

While both funerals broke covid guidelines only one was organised by a political party and attended by the leadership of the party. SF supporters seem to think the attendance at the garda funeral was somehow the fault/responsibility of political parties in the south, which again is a strange accusation, but the party and its supporters really are clutching at straws trying to justify their own actions so if you keep throwing mud something will stick seems to be the approach

Hollow words as usual.

Should the Garda Commissioner and Minister for Justice have faced sanctions for the funeral? If the answer is yes then why have you made a big song and dance over Storey's funeral.

If the answer is no then you're a hypocrite for all to see.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on March 31, 2021, 04:57:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 03:59:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2021, 03:23:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 31, 2021, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.

The mask slips. Your concern has nothing to do with public health. You're outrage is totally dependant on who was in the coffin - ergo you, like Column Eastwood and co. are just using a man's funeral (disregarding his family's grief) in order to score the cheapest of political points. Does covid not spread at Garda funerals, no?

I'm not sure I was masking anything, I have been pretty upfront with my opinions. I'm not scoring political points because I am not a politician.
There is a public health issue absolutely. Regulations were broken at both funerals. But if Gerry Adams unelected citizen attends Bobby Storey Funeral it a breach but that's it. But once Mary Lou, Pearce Doherty, Michelle O'Neill (Deputy First Minister) attends then it is an issue. She is making the rules and then breaking them. Why is she allowed to attend a funeral that breaks regulations and rest of us not? Additionally there were further breaches at the Graveside Oration (Michelle O'Neill posed for pics with 2 Dublin SF members).

With regards to the Garda, Political Leaders should attend as they are representing the state and by extension all of the people. The Garda was murdered on duty. If he dies in his sleep off duty then no, they shouldn't attend. I think it's pretty clear. Many of the other attendees though have broken the regulations.

That's my view anyhow.

I understand that sentiment but Covid regs are Covid regs so no deviation can be expected or explained away.

SF supporters/leadership would disagree with you there unfortunately. It's a strange comparison when you compare the funeral of a garda who died in the line of duty with that of an IRA enforcer.

While both funerals broke covid guidelines only one was organised by a political party and attended by the leadership of the party. SF supporters seem to think the attendance at the garda funeral was somehow the fault/responsibility of political parties in the south, which again is a strange accusation, but the party and its supporters really are clutching at straws trying to justify their own actions so if you keep throwing mud something will stick seems to be the approach

People doing some heavy lifting to make it seem ok that the Garda funeral was alright. They both broke covid regulations and that's the bottom line. It's a lot easier to have a go at people attending the storey funeral tho. I just wish people would have the balls to come and say it like it is. It's because they don't like SF
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on March 31, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 31, 2021, 01:45:55 PM
As far as I am aware, Michelle O'Neill already apologised for an error in judgement. What else could / should Sinn Fein do to satisfy those who are upset by the PPS ruling?

She did indeed. But this gives people a reason to have another go at her for the same thing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on March 31, 2021, 06:03:31 PM
If I was SF I wouldn't go anywhere near Stormont tomorrow. Let them all debate away all day if they wish.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on March 31, 2021, 07:05:49 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 31, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 31, 2021, 01:45:55 PM
As far as I am aware, Michelle O'Neill already apologised for an error in judgement. What else could / should Sinn Fein do to satisfy those who are upset by the PPS ruling?

She did indeed. But this gives people a reason to have another go at her for the same thing

She said she was sorry for the "hurt" caused to other families but also said in the same breath -

"I will never apologise for attending the funeral of my friend"

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 31, 2021, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 31, 2021, 07:05:49 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 31, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 31, 2021, 01:45:55 PM
As far as I am aware, Michelle O'Neill already apologised for an error in judgement. What else could / should Sinn Fein do to satisfy those who are upset by the PPS ruling?

She did indeed. But this gives people a reason to have another go at her for the same thing

She said she was sorry for the "hurt" caused to other families but also said in the same breath -

"I will never apologise for attending the funeral of my friend"
Nor should she. Or anyone else.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: gallsman on March 31, 2021, 07:36:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 03:21:41 PM

I think in those exceptional and very limited circumstances the state must attend the funeral in as covid compliant way as it can.

Sound, can you please point us to the part of the regulations in the South that say it's ok to beach them all in these limited circumstances and where it identifies the death of a Garda in the line of duty as one of those circumstances? Because if you can't, what "you think" is completely and utterly irrelevant
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on March 31, 2021, 10:15:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Pretty sure there were prominent members of FF and FG at the Garda funeral including Charlie Flanagan a minister, if reports are to be believed.

Charlie Flanagan was a has been. There is a difference between him and a leader. If Gerry Adams had gone to Storey funeral and O'Neill and McDonald had stayed away then there wouldn't have been an issue. That is what leadership is about.

For me there is a difference between a Garda who was on killed in the line of duty serving his country and Bobby Storey who at best was a lay citizen and, well at worst, someone trying to destroy the state. One funeral deserves to have leaders of the country at it and the other doesn't.

Some girls are bigger than others and some girls mothers are bigger than other girls mothers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 31, 2021, 10:59:53 PM
I reckon bonfires would have went ahead regardless this year
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on March 31, 2021, 11:24:39 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

Burning and polluting their own communities, if this is their culture, then they really don't have alot going for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: David McKeown on March 31, 2021, 11:30:10 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

I see several groups have posted the same message. Spelling mistakes and all. One hive mind these groups
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on March 31, 2021, 11:52:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

Why would the Shinners try to stop these scum polluting their shithole ghettos even more? Nothing to do with them. It's police's job. And they'll do what they always do in face of loyalist threats, f**k all squared.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on April 01, 2021, 02:32:40 AM
Quote from: red hander on March 31, 2021, 11:52:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

Why would the Shinners try to stop these scum polluting their shithole ghettos even more? Nothing to do with them. It's police's job. And they'll do what they always do in face of loyalist threats, f**k all squared.

Yes, but doing nothing about bonfires will restore confidence in policing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 01, 2021, 07:52:11 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

He's just a troll. You'll note he has dodged the question about the Garda's funeral and why he thinks it was ok for hundreds of Gardai yo attend in spite of the regulations.

He'll bombard this board with his pathetic hypocrisy and faux outrage but he's never shown any semblance of intelligence that he's anything more than an empty troll.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.

Its the very fact they have to protect the local community or at least limit what they could do. If one branch has announced they're going ahead with their bonfire/march I'm sure you'll see most of the rest follow suit as well. I would have thought that's a bad thing, but if people who live in the north don't have an issue with the orange order going ahead with their events then fair enough
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 09:47:38 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.
Paranoia?   ???

You read the article and your response to it was to attack SF. It's hardly "paranoia" to then, for me to have claimed that your gut reaction to the article was to attack SF.

This board can beggar belief sometimes!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 01, 2021, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.

Its the very fact they have to protect the local community or at least limit what they could do. If one branch has announced they're going ahead with their bonfire/march I'm sure you'll see most of the rest follow suit as well. I would have thought that's a bad thing, but if people who live in the north don't have an issue with the orange order going ahead with their events then fair enough

SF and SF supporters are so insular in their outlook, they can't see how it effect the whole community. It's them alone and f**k the rest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:54:33 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.

Its the very fact they have to protect the local community or at least limit what they could do. If one branch has announced they're going ahead with their bonfire/march I'm sure you'll see most of the rest follow suit as well. I would have thought that's a bad thing, but if people who live in the north don't have an issue with the orange order going ahead with their events then fair enough

Still struggling with the connection to SF though.

If you think these bonfires are all going ahead because SF are seen to have gotten away with the Storey funeral then you must have missed the herbie hutton funeral and a few others, let alone the Rangers celebrations.

They'll take place irrespective of what the Shinners have done and I'll repeat again that what happened at the Storey funeral was wrong and has played out badly for the Shinners in their own communities which should be a bigger concern to them than a bonfire in east Belfast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 01, 2021, 10:02:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.

Its the very fact they have to protect the local community or at least limit what they could do. If one branch has announced they're going ahead with their bonfire/march I'm sure you'll see most of the rest follow suit as well. I would have thought that's a bad thing, but if people who live in the north don't have an issue with the orange order going ahead with their events then fair enough

SF and SF supporters are so insular in their outlook, they can't see how it effect the whole community. It's them alone and f**k the rest.

Whereas the Stoops are happy to jump into bed with any bigoted unionist dinosaur they can as long as it allows them to have a pop at SF.

What an embarrassment the SDLP are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on April 01, 2021, 10:13:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.

Its the very fact they have to protect the local community or at least limit what they could do. If one branch has announced they're going ahead with their bonfire/march I'm sure you'll see most of the rest follow suit as well. I would have thought that's a bad thing, but if people who live in the north don't have an issue with the orange order going ahead with their events then fair enough

SF and SF supporters are so insular in their outlook, they can't see how it effect the whole community. It's them alone and f**k the rest.

What are the SDLP doing to stop the bonfires?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 01, 2021, 10:53:15 AM
The bonfires, paddies day etc.. are fcuk all to do with Storey funeral and more to do with a general tiredness re lockdown. watch Easter. same happening in the south.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 11:02:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:54:33 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.

Its the very fact they have to protect the local community or at least limit what they could do. If one branch has announced they're going ahead with their bonfire/march I'm sure you'll see most of the rest follow suit as well. I would have thought that's a bad thing, but if people who live in the north don't have an issue with the orange order going ahead with their events then fair enough

Still struggling with the connection to SF though.

If you think these bonfires are all going ahead because SF are seen to have gotten away with the Storey funeral then you must have missed the herbie hutton funeral and a few others, let alone the Rangers celebrations.

They'll take place irrespective of what the Shinners have done and I'll repeat again that what happened at the Storey funeral was wrong and has played out badly for the Shinners in their own communities which should be a bigger concern to them than a bonfire in east Belfast.

I simply pointed SF can't object to these events taking place due to covid restrictions. If they've no problem with them going ahead then you're right it's it doesn't matter what they do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 01, 2021, 11:12:34 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 11:02:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:54:33 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.

Its the very fact they have to protect the local community or at least limit what they could do. If one branch has announced they're going ahead with their bonfire/march I'm sure you'll see most of the rest follow suit as well. I would have thought that's a bad thing, but if people who live in the north don't have an issue with the orange order going ahead with their events then fair enough

Still struggling with the connection to SF though.

If you think these bonfires are all going ahead because SF are seen to have gotten away with the Storey funeral then you must have missed the herbie hutton funeral and a few others, let alone the Rangers celebrations.

They'll take place irrespective of what the Shinners have done and I'll repeat again that what happened at the Storey funeral was wrong and has played out badly for the Shinners in their own communities which should be a bigger concern to them than a bonfire in east Belfast.

I simply pointed SF can't object to these events taking place due to covid restrictions. If they've no problem with them going ahead then you're right it's it doesn't matter what they do.

Are you sliddering away from addressing your hypocrisy on the Garda funeral?

Very hollow stuff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 01, 2021, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.

Its the very fact they have to protect the local community or at least limit what they could do. If one branch has announced they're going ahead with their bonfire/march I'm sure you'll see most of the rest follow suit as well. I would have thought that's a bad thing, but if people who live in the north don't have an issue with the orange order going ahead with their events then fair enough

SF and SF supporters are so insular in their outlook, they can't see how it effect the whole community. It's them alone and f**k the rest.
I suppose I'm what passes for a Shinner on here. I've no problem in calling them out. They got it completely wrong to the extent that they were/are actually taking the piss.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 01, 2021, 11:29:14 AM
ANGELO DO YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE IN YOUR LIFE. Get onto the gardening thread and chill. FSF lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 11:58:00 AM
Quote from: general_lee on April 01, 2021, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2021, 09:39:35 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 01, 2021, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 31, 2021, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on March 31, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex1lVsNXIAQBn4k?format=jpg&name=large

Could be a dangerous summer ahead.

The problem for SF is if they try to stop any bonfire/march etc on the basis of social distancing/Covid restrictions they've no credibility so what do they do then

If you read that article and your gut instinct was to attack SF, it says an awful lot about you.

Your paranoia knows no bounds.

I don't want to see any marches/bonfires etc and the trouble that comes with it any more than anyone else. My point was quite simply what grounds do SF have to try and stop this happening? I don't see how anything positive can come from this.

Why would SF give two shites about a bonfire in Sydenham?

It's the PSNI's job which they do badly to protect the local community.

Its the very fact they have to protect the local community or at least limit what they could do. If one branch has announced they're going ahead with their bonfire/march I'm sure you'll see most of the rest follow suit as well. I would have thought that's a bad thing, but if people who live in the north don't have an issue with the orange order going ahead with their events then fair enough

SF and SF supporters are so insular in their outlook, they can't see how it effect the whole community. It's them alone and f**k the rest.
I suppose I'm what passes for a Shinner on here. I've no problem in calling them out. They got it completely wrong to the extent that they were/are actually taking the piss.
Ditto. As someone who supports SF and who held Bobby Storey in high regard, I have absolutely no problem in saying (and have said all along) that SF's prominent attendance at the funeral was the absolute height of stupidity and was totally inexcusable. As was Michelle O'Neill's attempts at justification in the days following it. When families had to decide which of them could and could not attend a parent's/grandparent's funeral, she was grossly insulting every one of them by claiming that she was right to have attended this funeral because she was close to Bobby. Not good enough.

But also not good enough has been the hypocritical and grossly insensitive reaction from the great and the good - totally heedless of a grieving family at the heart of the story. As I've said from the start, is that it's the same ones who have been doing the most shouting about this funeral (particularly on this board) who have been tripping over themselves to make excuses for/totally ignoring political figures breaching the regulations at other funerals. I've only seen one poster here at least letting the mask slip enough to admit that his motivation for complaining about the Storey funeral was solely down to his dislike for who was in the coffin, rather than a genuine concern for public health.

EDIT:
As I write, Nicola Mallons rises to her feet in the assembly to begin the SDLP's motion of censure against Sinn Féin. She won't reference her party leader breaching covid regulations at John Hume's funeral. That tells you everything about the motivations behind the furore.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 01, 2021, 12:39:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 11:58:00 AM

EDIT:
As I write, Nicola Mallons rises to her feet in the assembly to begin the SDLP's motion of censure against Sinn Féin. She won't reference her party leader breaching covid regulations at John Hume's funeral. That tells you everything about the motivations behind the furore.

Sure Nichola was there at Hume's funeral herself.

(https://www.independent.ie/incoming/0464f/39426140.ece/AUTOCROP/w620/FUNERAL%20H%2044.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on April 01, 2021, 01:34:41 PM
Must be an optical illusion, that's probably 5m apart
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie. But sure what else would you expect from SF? Lies and whataboutery, even Pearse Doherty couldn't help himself last night spouting lies even when he didn't have too! Pre-programmed to lie and deceive are SF.

EDIT
And I should also say if you're reading this f**k face don't bother to reply, I have you on ignore so I won't read it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 02:37:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie.

So these two are 2 metres apart yeah?

(https://images.ctfassets.net/pjshm78m9jt4/5uMnVfuj5kj7KU5fTYA79z/cfed62fbaa7d5ba009842f90d83da52d/PA-54872690.jpg?fm=jpg&fit=fill&w=650&h=366&q=80)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 01, 2021, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie. But sure what else would you expect from SF? Lies and whataboutery, even Pearse Doherty couldn't help himself last night spouting lies even when he didn't have too! Pre-programmed to lie and deceive are SF.

EDIT
And I should also say if you're reading this f**k face don't bother to reply, I have you on ignore so I won't read it.
No one is saying that the SDLP were at fault foe those who showed for the Hume funeral. By the same token they did not call it out. There have been other well documented funerals in both communities which also caused breaches as did that of the Garda. I for one am pissed at SF ministers showing up as they did, but the matter was felt with and the utter bandwagon jumping by the SDLP is pathetic as the predictable anger from unionists.But any rational nationalist would recognise that had SF stepped completely back from this funeral it would have been a shit show as people in Republican circles seem to adore Storey. They took control and organised it. The big mistake was their appearance in the cortege.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on April 01, 2021, 03:02:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie. But sure what else would you expect from SF? Lies and whataboutery, even Pearse Doherty couldn't help himself last night spouting lies even when he didn't have too! Pre-programmed to lie and deceive are SF.

EDIT
And I should also say if you're reading this f**k face don't bother to reply, I have you on ignore so I won't read it.

Please sanction this chimp
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 03:03:13 PM
Pathetic little clowns are obsessed with Sinn Fein. Hilarious.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 01, 2021, 03:04:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM


EDIT
And I should also say if you're reading this f**k face don't bother to reply, I have you on ignore so I won't read it.

Another one for the moderator to deal with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 01, 2021, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie. But sure what else would you expect from SF? Lies and whataboutery, even Pearse Doherty couldn't help himself last night spouting lies even when he didn't have too! Pre-programmed to lie and deceive are SF.

EDIT
And I should also say if you're reading this f**k face don't bother to reply, I have you on ignore so I won't read it.

Ask him who paid for the office lol??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 01, 2021, 04:00:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 01, 2021, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie. But sure what else would you expect from SF? Lies and whataboutery, even Pearse Doherty couldn't help himself last night spouting lies even when he didn't have too! Pre-programmed to lie and deceive are SF.

EDIT
And I should also say if you're reading this f**k face don't bother to reply, I have you on ignore so I won't read it.
No one is saying that the SDLP were at fault foe those who showed for the Hume funeral. By the same token they did not call it out. There have been other well documented funerals in both communities which also caused breaches as did that of the Garda. I for one am pissed at SF ministers showing up as they did, but the matter was felt with and the utter bandwagon jumping by the SDLP is pathetic as the predictable anger from unionists.But any rational nationalist would recognise that had SF stepped completely back from this funeral it would have been a shit show as people in Republican circles seem to adore Storey. They took control and organised it. The big mistake was their appearance in the cortege.

id say they have their ear to the ground on this one and that they know(have been told by constituents) how pissed people were, but they should have been cuter
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 01, 2021, 04:38:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 01, 2021, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie. But sure what else would you expect from SF? Lies and whataboutery, even Pearse Doherty couldn't help himself last night spouting lies even when he didn't have too! Pre-programmed to lie and deceive are SF.

EDIT
And I should also say if you're reading this f**k face don't bother to reply, I have you on ignore so I won't read it.

Ask him who paid for the office lol??

Oh don't start. I am always picking on poor SF. You're not allowed to be critical of them. Forget everything they ever did. They are beyond reproach.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 01, 2021, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 04:38:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 01, 2021, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie. But sure what else would you expect from SF? Lies and whataboutery, even Pearse Doherty couldn't help himself last night spouting lies even when he didn't have too! Pre-programmed to lie and deceive are SF.

EDIT
And I should also say if you're reading this f**k face don't bother to reply, I have you on ignore so I won't read it.

Ask him who paid for the office lol??

Oh don't start. I am always picking on poor SF. You're not allowed to be critical of them. Forget everything they ever did. They are beyond reproach.
I'd criticise them as appropriate but you seem to have some weird Sinn Fein obsession.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on April 01, 2021, 07:47:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 02:37:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie.

So these two are 2 metres apart yeah?

(https://images.ctfassets.net/pjshm78m9jt4/5uMnVfuj5kj7KU5fTYA79z/cfed62fbaa7d5ba009842f90d83da52d/PA-54872690.jpg?fm=jpg&fit=fill&w=650&h=366&q=80)

What a pair. The Croppie Boy wee Colum, who was going to stop Brexit by bending the knee to the Queen, and the craven traitor of Leinster House, who'll hopefully put the final nail in the coffin of that bunch of shysters Fianna Fail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 01, 2021, 08:04:42 PM
Quote from: red hander on April 01, 2021, 07:47:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 01, 2021, 02:37:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
They were no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP or the Hume family and to say otherwise it an outright lie.

So these two are 2 metres apart yeah?

(https://images.ctfassets.net/pjshm78m9jt4/5uMnVfuj5kj7KU5fTYA79z/cfed62fbaa7d5ba009842f90d83da52d/PA-54872690.jpg?fm=jpg&fit=fill&w=650&h=366&q=80)

What a pair. The Croppie Boy wee Colum, who was going to stop Brexit by bending the knee to the Queen, and the craven traitor of Leinster House, who'll hopefully put the final nail in the coffin of that bunch of shysters Fianna Fail.

Colum not even bright enough to put his mask on properly never mind stopping Brexit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on April 02, 2021, 09:05:29 AM
Angelo a lot of people in Derry liked him when he gave 10000 i forgot about it Elisha a trouncing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 09:19:31 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."
Very true. What party do you support or are you not fussy as long as they are sticking the boot in Sinn Fein?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o

You seem to have some bee in you bonnet about 2 meters between people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dire Ear on April 02, 2021, 11:40:03 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."
Nicola Mallon------very apt !
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 11:47:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o

You seem to have some bee in you bonnet about 2 meters between people.

You claimed that there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". Regulations prohibited people standing within 2m of each other.

So I'm just making sure people know who's actually the one telling outright lies.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:48:47 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 11:47:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o

You seem to have some bee in you bonnet about 2 meters between people.

You claimed that there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". Regulations prohibited people standing within 2m of each other.

So I'm just making sure people know who's actually the one telling outright lies.

Did they? Please provide the link to those regulations.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o

You seem to have some bee in you bonnet about 2 meters between people.
Is that not the rule that you're crying about SF breaking?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on April 02, 2021, 11:53:10 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 11:47:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o

You seem to have some bee in you bonnet about 2 meters between people.

You claimed that there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". Regulations prohibited people standing within 2m of each other.

So I'm just making sure people know who's actually the one telling outright lies.

Trailer getting Steve Aiken'd here by the looks of things
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o

You seem to have some bee in you bonnet about 2 meters between people.
Is that not the rule that you're crying about SF breaking?

No.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 11:57:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o

You seem to have some bee in you bonnet about 2 meters between people.
Is that not the rule that you're crying about SF breaking?

No.
What are you crying about then
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 02, 2021, 12:04:03 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 11:57:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o

You seem to have some bee in you bonnet about 2 meters between people.
Is that not the rule that you're crying about SF breaking?

No.
What are you crying about then

There was a limit on Public Gatherings. I think it was 30 people at the time, might be 25 now. SF organised the Funeral with people turning out in Black and White despite those regulations being in place. That's what the issue is. This is has been all over the news, weird that you guys don't know that.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 02, 2021, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 12:04:03 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 11:57:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 02, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2021, 09:00:22 AM
I saw this on Twitter, very apt.

"If you cannot handle any criticism of your favourite politician or political party then you don't belong to a political party. You belong to a cult."

I've seen quite a few SF supporting posters here criticise SF's actions at the funeral. Maybe you missed those posts just. On the flip side of the coin - I'd say devoting such an inordinate amount of time and effort to attacking SF online while saying nothing about who or what you do support - well that seems more than a bit cult-ish.

By the way, I know you said there were "no breaches at John Hume's funeral that were the fault of the SDLP" and that " to say otherwise it an outright lie". That in mind, I assume you do feel that Micheal and Colum are more than 2m apart in the above photo, yes? Or....perish the thought here...but...were YOU the one telling "outright lies"?  :o

You seem to have some bee in you bonnet about 2 meters between people.
Is that not the rule that you're crying about SF breaking?

No.
What are you crying about then

There was a limit on Public Gatherings. I think it was 30 people at the time, might be 25 now. SF organised the Funeral with people turning out in Black and White despite those regulations being in place. That's what the issue is. This is has been all over the news, weird that you guys don't know that.

Those limits were also broken at Hume's funeral.

What a pathetic character you are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 03, 2021, 09:15:32 AM
Interesting story breaking this morning.

https://www.ontheditch.com/taoiseach-micheal-martin-breached-public-health-guidelines-at-prohibited-event-honouring-his-father/


Maybe Louther can advise if that is a far right editorial.

I expect Colum to be calling for Martin to go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on April 03, 2021, 03:12:50 PM
The DITCH would be a place SF would know well.Stakeknife organised a fair few a DITCH as their final resting place while he was on the payroll of the Crown forces.Angelo would you know when the trial is going to be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on April 03, 2021, 03:54:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 03, 2021, 09:15:32 AM
Interesting story breaking this morning.

https://www.ontheditch.com/taoiseach-micheal-martin-breached-public-health-guidelines-at-prohibited-event-honouring-his-father/


Maybe Louther can advise if that is a far right editorial.

I expect Colum to be calling for Martin to go.

Much as I think Martin is a very poor Taoiseach, this seems not as big a story as this new site is trying to make out:
https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-40190700.html

That is Mary Lou and Martin now breaking lockdown rules.  Our next coalition partners in social distancing crime?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 03, 2021, 04:15:24 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 03, 2021, 03:54:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 03, 2021, 09:15:32 AM
Interesting story breaking this morning.

https://www.ontheditch.com/taoiseach-micheal-martin-breached-public-health-guidelines-at-prohibited-event-honouring-his-father/


Maybe Louther can advise if that is a far right editorial.

I expect Colum to be calling for Martin to go.

Much as I think Martin is a very poor Taoiseach, this seems not as big a story as this new site is trying to make out:
https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-40190700.html

That is Mary Lou and Martin now breaking lockdown rules.  Our next coalition partners in social distancing crime?

It's a very big story.

No indoor public gatherings were allowed at the time.

Of course RTE are not interested.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2021, 04:19:10 PM
Good to see we have at least 1 party leader from a modest down to earth background, and a good GAA man to boot.
Mloo and the Leak on the other hand........
Not to mention Murphy and Boyd Barrett.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 03, 2021, 04:21:53 PM
These were the regulations in place at the time of the event Martin attended.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/a/f/aff61dec9f44d5f27e145b49293c85070d5b274a.jpeg)


It's a cut and dry breach of his own regulations.

In fact he is encouraging others to break them.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on April 03, 2021, 05:58:14 PM
Angelo great man on the regulations when it suits you.What about the 4 million sterling think you got from a British citizen kept it in the North to avoid scrutiny.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 03, 2021, 07:06:37 PM
Quote from: skeog on April 03, 2021, 05:58:14 PM
Angelo great man on the regulations when it suits you.What about the 4 million sterling think you got from a British citizen kept it in the North to avoid scrutiny.

Skeog a great man on the "What about SF"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on April 03, 2021, 07:41:23 PM
Angelo i admire your dedication to the cause so i am going to refrain from any more postings on politics.Going to stick to the GAA stuff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 03, 2021, 08:11:30 PM
Quote from: skeog on April 03, 2021, 07:41:23 PM
Angelo i admire your dedication to the cause so i am going to refrain from any more postings on politics.Going to stick to the GAA stuff.

A sensible decision. You're wasting your time arguing with him and it'll save you alot of time and energy in the long run
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 03, 2021, 08:57:05 PM
You're wasting your time arguing with the facts. That's the issue.

It was a clear breach by Martin.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/4/0/40689a4fe1333ed00f453dc8776bfc45af22c808.jpeg)

Dublin7 acting like a 5 year old as usual when the facts show him up to be a vacuous hypocrite.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:06:12 AM
RTE are very quick to slander, defame and misrepresent SF but seem very unwilling to cover stories when they break on a FFG scandal.

They do it on a routine basis so good to see them finally held to account.

Joe Brolly makes accurate charges against the DUP and is taken off air.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 07, 2021, 11:14:32 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.
Ha. Rent-free.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.

I hope you are equally concerned for Pascal O'Donoghue, that he will make a full and speedy recovery from his trauma. It was just last week that Paschal demanded RTÉ apologise for simply referencing in an interview that FG introduced VAT on childrens shoes in 1982. And believe it or not, RTÉ did swiftly apologise, both to him and to Fine Gael. Interesting precedent - I wonder will RTÉ presenters no longer ask Sinn Féin about events of 40 years ago too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:29:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:06:12 AM
RTE are very quick to slander, defame and misrepresent SF but seem very unwilling to cover stories when they break on a FFG scandal.

They do it on a routine basis so good to see them finally held to account.

Joe Brolly makes accurate charges against the DUP and is taken off air.

This is why Joe Brolly got cut off. Are RTE to allow anyone say what they like knowing they foot the Bill.

150k a massive pay out and no one even seems to recall what was said or how the TD was defamed. Must have really upset the poor fella.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.

I hope you are equally concerned for Pascal O'Donoghue, that he will make a full and speedy recovery from his trauma. It was just last week that Paschal demanded RTÉ apologise for simply referencing in an interview that FG introduced VAT on childrens shoes in 1982. And believe it or not, RTÉ did swiftly apologise, both to him and to Fine Gael. Interesting precedent - I wonder will RTÉ presenters no longer ask Sinn Féin about events of 40 years ago too.

Did he sue or accept what was said and move on like a grown adult? Was childish even looking an apology on a trivial comment that he should have addressed when he answered.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.

I hope you are equally concerned for Pascal O'Donoghue, that he will make a full and speedy recovery from his trauma. It was just last week that Paschal demanded RTÉ apologise for simply referencing in an interview that FG introduced VAT on childrens shoes in 1982. And believe it or not, RTÉ did swiftly apologise, both to him and to Fine Gael. Interesting precedent - I wonder will RTÉ presenters no longer ask Sinn Féin about events of 40 years ago too.

Did he sue or accept what was said and move on like a grown adult? Was childish even looking an apology on a trivial comment that he should have addressed when he answered.

I don't think you can sue anybody for stating that FG introduced VAT on children's shoes in 1982 because it's just a statement of fact. And the fact that he demanded an apology from RTÉ for making a statement of fact suggests he didn't react to the comment like a grown adult.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.

I hope you are equally concerned for Pascal O'Donoghue, that he will make a full and speedy recovery from his trauma. It was just last week that Paschal demanded RTÉ apologise for simply referencing in an interview that FG introduced VAT on childrens shoes in 1982. And believe it or not, RTÉ did swiftly apologise, both to him and to Fine Gael. Interesting precedent - I wonder will RTÉ presenters no longer ask Sinn Féin about events of 40 years ago too.

Did he sue or accept what was said and move on like a grown adult? Was childish even looking an apology on a trivial comment that he should have addressed when he answered.

Sue someone for stating a fact?

The big issue here is that the taxpayer is being left footing a bill due to the gross negligence from Joe Duffy. Surely RTE should be sacking him?

He has a history of defamatory comments against SF representatives that leave him and his employer open to legal proceedings.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 12:11:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.

I hope you are equally concerned for Pascal O'Donoghue, that he will make a full and speedy recovery from his trauma. It was just last week that Paschal demanded RTÉ apologise for simply referencing in an interview that FG introduced VAT on childrens shoes in 1982. And believe it or not, RTÉ did swiftly apologise, both to him and to Fine Gael. Interesting precedent - I wonder will RTÉ presenters no longer ask Sinn Féin about events of 40 years ago too.

Did he sue or accept what was said and move on like a grown adult? Was childish even looking an apology on a trivial comment that he should have addressed when he answered.

Sue someone for stating a fact?

The big issue here is that the taxpayer is being left footing a bill due to the gross negligence from Joe Duffy. Surely RTE should be sacking him?

He has a history of defamatory comments against SF representatives that leave him and his employer open to legal proceedings.

What was said? Was it Joe Duffy that said it or a caller/guest on the show? How do you know it was gross negligence?

You stated a fact here last week that was wrong and then said you didn't know if it was right or wrong but stayed it twice anyway. Happens a lot with you.

This is another example of the SF talking out of two sides of their mouths. We'll have Pierce Doherty standing up talking about Insurance reform and reducing pay outs and then across the room you've a colleague running off to the courts to sue someone for something that no one even recalls what was said and for a substantial payout way above his annual salary. How damaged was he really?

All politicians should grow a pair.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 12:15:32 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 12:11:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.

I hope you are equally concerned for Pascal O'Donoghue, that he will make a full and speedy recovery from his trauma. It was just last week that Paschal demanded RTÉ apologise for simply referencing in an interview that FG introduced VAT on childrens shoes in 1982. And believe it or not, RTÉ did swiftly apologise, both to him and to Fine Gael. Interesting precedent - I wonder will RTÉ presenters no longer ask Sinn Féin about events of 40 years ago too.

Did he sue or accept what was said and move on like a grown adult? Was childish even looking an apology on a trivial comment that he should have addressed when he answered.

Sue someone for stating a fact?

The big issue here is that the taxpayer is being left footing a bill due to the gross negligence from Joe Duffy. Surely RTE should be sacking him?

He has a history of defamatory comments against SF representatives that leave him and his employer open to legal proceedings.

What was said? Was it Joe Duffy that said it or a caller/guest on the show? How do you know it was gross negligence?

You stated a fact here last week that was wrong and then said you didn't know if it was right or wrong but stayed it twice anyway. Happens a lot with you.

This is another example of the SF talking out of two sides of their mouths. We'll have Pierce Doherty standing up talking about Insurance reform and reducing pay outs and then across the room you've a colleague running off to the courts to sue someone for something that no one even recalls what was said and for a substantial payout way above his annual salary. How damaged was he really?

All politicians should grow a pair.

Because RTE have said they had little chance of defending the allegations. Why haven't they sanctioned or dismissed Joe Duffy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 12:26:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 12:15:32 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 12:11:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.

I hope you are equally concerned for Pascal O'Donoghue, that he will make a full and speedy recovery from his trauma. It was just last week that Paschal demanded RTÉ apologise for simply referencing in an interview that FG introduced VAT on childrens shoes in 1982. And believe it or not, RTÉ did swiftly apologise, both to him and to Fine Gael. Interesting precedent - I wonder will RTÉ presenters no longer ask Sinn Féin about events of 40 years ago too.

Did he sue or accept what was said and move on like a grown adult? Was childish even looking an apology on a trivial comment that he should have addressed when he answered.

Sue someone for stating a fact?

The big issue here is that the taxpayer is being left footing a bill due to the gross negligence from Joe Duffy. Surely RTE should be sacking him?

He has a history of defamatory comments against SF representatives that leave him and his employer open to legal proceedings.

What was said? Was it Joe Duffy that said it or a caller/guest on the show? How do you know it was gross negligence?

You stated a fact here last week that was wrong and then said you didn't know if it was right or wrong but stayed it twice anyway. Happens a lot with you.

This is another example of the SF talking out of two sides of their mouths. We'll have Pierce Doherty standing up talking about Insurance reform and reducing pay outs and then across the room you've a colleague running off to the courts to sue someone for something that no one even recalls what was said and for a substantial payout way above his annual salary. How damaged was he really?

All politicians should grow a pair.

Because RTE have said they had little chance of defending the allegations. Why haven't they sanctioned or dismissed Joe Duffy?

Again, what did Joe Duffy say? It was his show but I don't know if it was him or who said what? Only last week Prime Time paid out a defamation claim to another Republican Party over a comment a guest made about them. It was actually your buddy who you get your facts from, John McGuirk of Gript who said it and cost RTE the payout.

So, again, what was said? By who? Before you start calling for heads.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 12:35:58 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 12:26:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 12:15:32 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 12:11:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
I see the Times reporting that SF TD has settled a claim against RTE and Liveline for in excess of €150,000 for some comments made on air. Don't seem to be anyone able to report what the comments where. TD was Donnchadh O Laoghaire.

Wonder will he put the funds into party coffers?

Hope the fella has recovered from what was side that hurt him so much.

I hope you are equally concerned for Pascal O'Donoghue, that he will make a full and speedy recovery from his trauma. It was just last week that Paschal demanded RTÉ apologise for simply referencing in an interview that FG introduced VAT on childrens shoes in 1982. And believe it or not, RTÉ did swiftly apologise, both to him and to Fine Gael. Interesting precedent - I wonder will RTÉ presenters no longer ask Sinn Féin about events of 40 years ago too.

Did he sue or accept what was said and move on like a grown adult? Was childish even looking an apology on a trivial comment that he should have addressed when he answered.

Sue someone for stating a fact?

The big issue here is that the taxpayer is being left footing a bill due to the gross negligence from Joe Duffy. Surely RTE should be sacking him?

He has a history of defamatory comments against SF representatives that leave him and his employer open to legal proceedings.

What was said? Was it Joe Duffy that said it or a caller/guest on the show? How do you know it was gross negligence?

You stated a fact here last week that was wrong and then said you didn't know if it was right or wrong but stayed it twice anyway. Happens a lot with you.

This is another example of the SF talking out of two sides of their mouths. We'll have Pierce Doherty standing up talking about Insurance reform and reducing pay outs and then across the room you've a colleague running off to the courts to sue someone for something that no one even recalls what was said and for a substantial payout way above his annual salary. How damaged was he really?

All politicians should grow a pair.

Because RTE have said they had little chance of defending the allegations. Why haven't they sanctioned or dismissed Joe Duffy?

Again, what did Joe Duffy say? It was his show but I don't know if it was him or who said what? Only last week Prime Time paid out a defamation claim to another Republican Party over a comment a guest made about them. It was actually your buddy who you get your facts from, John McGuirk of Gript who said it and cost RTE the payout.

So, again, what was said? By who? Before you start calling for heads.

Woah,

You're the Gript subscriber here. It seems that you keep wanting to make false allegations at me over and over again when you're the only one who had admitted to reading what far right editorials say.

So let's be clear on this, don't make allegations against me you can't back up.

Joe Duffy defamed DOL. RTE said they had little chance of defending the alllegations and paid out. They also had to payout in a similar manner to Aengus O'Snodaigh after Joe Duffy claimed he had been charged criminally. You see a pattern emerges here where RTE are routinely making false charges against a political party and the tax payer has to foot the bill.

What I'd like to know is why an employee, a very highly paid one, is being allowed to defame people live on air and have the taxpayer foot the bill and not face any person sanction or disciplinary procedures himself.

There is a very worrying culture from RTE where they run damaging stories on a particular political party without verifying the allegations and charges they make on them. Miriam O'Callaghan has a track record in doing this. Gerry Adams could easily have taken legal actions against RTE on numerous occasions. I think this is what it has come to, SF TDs are now deciding to pursue legal avenues to tackle the state broadcaster abusing it's position to pedal political propaganda.

And of course, you defend a highly paid state employee costing the state hundreds of thousands through gross negligence and incompetence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 12:52:33 PM
You stated a story as fact, twice, that was incorrect and the only place that carried such a story was Gript. You then were exposed and try to pass it off as you not knowing if what you said was right or not and couldn't say why you said such a thing. So you either got the story from Gript or you just make up stuff to fit your agenda. Which is it?

A bluffer of the highest order. You got your story from Gript or you're a lair. Take your pick.

There was no payout to Aengus O'Snodaigh. He accepted a public apology in the air for something that was said and then corrected minutes later in air.

And if you knew anything you'd know Joe Duffy isn't an employee of RTE. He a contractor. They mightn't be able to sack him but they can cut his contract or not renew.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 01:02:44 PM
What exactly is your point re this story, Louther? Legal settlements regularly include confidentiality clauses, so there's no issue with either party not talking about the details. So is your gripe with Donnchadh O Laoghaire for having challenged RTÉ in the first place? Are you advocating that a state media organisation should be permitted to make slanderous comments against people at will and should be free from the threat of being challenged on it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 01:06:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 12:52:33 PM
You stated a story as fact, twice, that was incorrect and the only place that carried such a story was Gript. You then were exposed and try to pass it off as you not knowing if what you said was right or not and couldn't say why you said such a thing. So you either got the story from Gript or you just make up stuff to fit your agenda. Which is it?

A bluffer of the highest order. You got your story from Gript or you're a lair. Take your pick.

There was no payout to Aengus O'Snodaigh. He accepted a public apology in the air for something that was said and then corrected minutes later in air.

And if you knew anything you'd know Joe Duffy isn't an employee of RTE. He a contractor. They mightn't be able to sack him but they can cut his contract or not renew.

Excuse, what part of the story was incorrect? That I said it was her brother rather than her uncle. An odd thing for you to get upset about before you then made unfounded allegations against me, which you have continued to make after it was revealed that it is you in fact who is the subscriber to far right editorials.

It's alarming the type of things that trigger you.

My story is not from Gript. You seem to have taken issue with me mixing her uncle for her brother - a very serious mix up.

We have a highly paid state employee, who has now cost the state a 6 figure sum due to his gross incompetence/negligence. This is not the first time he has defamed a SF representative on live air. I'd like to know what action RTE are taking against him.

If you knew anything about anything you'd know Revenue have recently clamped down on those who RTE contract work to as it was tax avoidance scheme.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/rte-offers-staff-contracts-to-81-freelancers-and-self-employed-contractors-after-revenue-raised-concerns-40155710.html

Be very interesting to see if Duffy was one of them. They should not renew his contract but I think that RTE are quite happy to pedal a political agenda funded by the tax payer and carried out by worthless, overpaid shills.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 01:06:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 01:02:44 PM
What exactly is your point re this story, Louther? Legal settlements regularly include confidentiality clauses, so there's no issue with either party not talking about the details. So is your gripe with Donnchadh O Laoghaire for having challenged RTÉ in the first place? Are you advocating that a state media organisation should be permitted to make slanderous comments against people at will and should be free from the threat of being challenged on it?

That seems to be what he is arguing alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 01:46:14 PM
I'll tell you what I think.

RTE or any media organisation should operate with the laws and be held accountable. That's a given. No excuse and in a lot of cases they get pulled and corrected.

In this case a sitting TD has pulled in a substantial payment. Obviously something was said. By who or what we don't know as it didn't cause a ripple at the time. It wasn't a reported story and caused any outrage. In July the story broke of the court proceedings and again, was little known of what was said. Now it has been settled and weeks later it has come out of the payment. As of yet, there hasn't been an official apology by RTE or Joe Duffy. It seems the TD was after the money and not interested in a public apology to clear his defamed name. Maybe that will come but it's fairly standard in such places.

I think the most important thing is to hold the state broadcaster to account and correct what they have said. From a TD this should be main driver of getting the record corrected. Not a six figure pay out for something that never caused a ripple.

Secondly, I expected the normal flood of usual suspects defending SF and them not having a clue what's it about. They mad keen to hold RTE to account when it harms them, yet last week it was the devil for trying to protect itself from similar happening again when Joe Brolly wanted to talk without been checked.

Finally, back to the money. SF like to talk about state money, insurance reform and be seen handing back money in pay increases. But here we have a TD happy to pursue state money and take the money and run. Maybe it'll go to party funds or to charity but if this was settled a number of weeks back, why no formal apology and statement as to where the funds are going?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 01:46:14 PM

Secondly, I expected the normal flood of usual suspects defending SF and them not having a clue what's it about. They mad keen to hold RTE to account when it harms them, yet last week it was the devil for trying to protect itself from similar happening again when Joe Brolly wanted to talk without been checked.


This is a bizarre point. The double standards is RTE are willing to facilitate and allow defamatory and unfounded allegations against SF without challenge yet when completely fair and correct points are made against the DUP by Joe Brolly, he is cut off. Can you explain why pointing out those double standards triggers you?


They allow Leo Varadkar talk unchecked, unchallenged about protestant members in SF and refer to them as a sectarian party - it was incorrect statement that was allowed go unchallenged yet they cut off Joe Brolly for fully verifiable comments on the DUP.

You're the one defending double standards here. RTE routinely allow unfounded allegations be made against SF but police and censor fair comments made against other political parties and representatives.

My issue is why is the person (Joe Duffy) not sanctioned for these comments. It's seems RTE are willing to facilitate a political agenda if they can get away with it and refuse to discipline their staff when they get found out on it. Where is the directive coming from?

Your post up there is just laughable hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 02:04:22 PM
SF are the party of double standards FFS, they couldn't even hold the same line on the abortion issue in the North and played the cowards card and sat out of the vote.

Constantly flipping on both sides of the border.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 07, 2021, 02:06:49 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 01:46:14 PM
RTE or any media organisation should operate with the laws and be held accountable. That's a given. No excuse and in a lot of cases they get pulled and corrected.
Except that you go on to make a specific complaint about that very accountability process having been played out in the case of a SF member.

Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 01:46:14 PM
In this case a sitting TD has pulled in a substantial payment. Obviously something was said. By who or what we don't know as it didn't cause a ripple at the time. It wasn't a reported story and caused any outrage. In July the story broke of the court proceedings and again, was little known of what was said. Now it has been settled and weeks later it has come out of the payment. As of yet, there hasn't been an official apology by RTE or Joe Duffy. It seems the TD was after the money and not interested in a public apology to clear his defamed name. Maybe that will come but it's fairly standard in such places.

I think the most important thing is to hold the state broadcaster to account and correct what they have said. From a TD this should be main driver of getting the record corrected. Not a six figure pay out for something that never caused a ripple.
How do you know his motivation was financial? Perhaps a confidentiality agreement prohibits any apology giving specifics of the case, and perhaps a commitment from RTÉ that it cannot and will not say whatever it was that was said, ever again, and that this is the main motivator. Besides, even if his motives were financial (and you have no idea what he might intend to do with the money (it's not unusual for charities to benefit from such settlements for instance), it doesn't really matter, because if anyone, TD or otherwise, is slandered by the state broadcaster, they are perfectly entitled to challenge it, regardless of how important a potential payout is for them.

Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 01:46:14 PM
Secondly, I expected the normal flood of usual suspects defending SF and them not having a clue what's it about. They mad keen to hold RTE to account when it harms them, yet last week it was the devil for trying to protect itself from similar happening again when Joe Brolly wanted to talk without been checked.
And how disappointing that there hasn't been any such "flood" of messages defending SF. Only two posters (myself included) have discussed it with you, and I for one am not discussing it in terms of SF. You're the only one who seems to be interested in the story due to the SF aspect. I'm discussing it in terms of the rights and wrongs of slanderous comments being made by a state broadcaster. I don't care what party you belong to or what your motivations are - if the state broadcaster slanders you, they ought to be taken to task. I find it revealing, that in this story, where a person was slandered by the RTÉ, your reaction is to fixate your criticise upon the victim of the slander.

Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 01:46:14 PM
Finally, back to the money. SF like to talk about state money, insurance reform and be seen handing back money in pay increases. But here we have a TD happy to pursue state money and take the money and run. Maybe it'll go to party funds or to charity but if this was settled a number of weeks back, why no formal apology and statement as to where the funds are going?
Possibly because it's is absolutely none of your business where the funds going. Nobody who settles a dispute out of court is under any obligation to tell you or me what they do with the money.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 02:12:46 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 02:04:22 PM
SF are the party of double standards FFS, they couldn't even hold the same line on the abortion issue in the North and played the cowards card and sat out of the vote.

Constantly flipping on both sides of the border.

You're the one here justifying double standards.

I take it you're too stupid to actually realise the web of contradictions you've spun for yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 02:15:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 02:12:46 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 02:04:22 PM
SF are the party of double standards FFS, they couldn't even hold the same line on the abortion issue in the North and played the cowards card and sat out of the vote.

Constantly flipping on both sides of the border.

You're the one here justifying double standards.

I take it you're too stupid to actually realise the web of contradictions you've spun for yourself.

Deny. Deflect. Disappear.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 02:25:54 PM
Just an inane comment from you there.

You just had a post defending RTE for cutting off Joe Brolly as he made completely factual and verifiable comments on the DUP. He was censored for speaking the truth.

In contrast a week or so prior to that, RTE facilitated and enabled Leo Varadkar to make very serious charges that SF were a sectarian party because they had not Protestant representatives. Not only was he allowed make these charges unchallenged or unchecked, the accusations were completely and utterly false.

The fact that refuse to even accept and acknowledge the balatant double standards from the state broadcaster there just exemplifies the type of dinosaur you are.

It takes some brass neck from the likes of you to take the moral highground when you spend most of your time running around here justifying and excusing the indefensible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 02:53:24 PM
Our resident Shinnerbots have made awful fools of themselves again here  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 02:55:20 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/9/3/933ad2db899d6de384fc960fcbe0eb5e27eb1927.png)

Sidbots.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 02:58:43 PM
Live footage of Angelo in his bedroom in Aughnacloy

(https://nerdsonearth.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/d30993bdade5591342140f4edb19bc7d.gif)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:00:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 02:58:43 PM
Live footage of Angelo in his bedroom in Aughnacloy

(https://nerdsonearth.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/d30993bdade5591342140f4edb19bc7d.gif)

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/8/c/8c7fcc8306c81ba685856aaccbb3aafcf25e3b2b.png)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 03:03:00 PM
Poor Angelo is seething and can't debate  ;D

11/8 he ruins his keyboard with coffee this afternoon



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:06:18 PM
Don't need to debate anything with a hypocrite like you, Sid.

You might only make up more false allegations like your last hysterical episode.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 03:10:34 PM
You never need to debate

You know everything

And you know absolutely nothing



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
I certainly would have credibility. I can put forward a very grounded and measured argument and can substantiate things without feeling the need to concoct falsehoods and mispresent others.

You're just the boy who cried wolf. We all saw that on the Cancelled thread.

And you're easily humiliated when your past viewpoints show your current viewpoints to be nothing more than a very emotional and vindictive grudge being exercised.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 07, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
Louther you've had bit of a mare here. You're complaining that "shinnerbots" are defending the claim when they don't even know what the complaint is about. Yet was it not you that brought up the point, while not knowing what was said either, just to have a pop.

You couldn't make it up. 😂😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
I certainly would have credibility. I can put forward a very grounded and measured argument and can substantiate things without feeling the need to concoct falsehoods and mispresent others.

You're just the boy who cried wolf. We all saw that on the Cancelled thread.

And you're easily humiliated when your past viewpoints show your current viewpoints to be nothing more than a very emotional and vindictive grudge being exercised.
"Emotional and vindictive"  ;D ;D ;D

I think it's fairly obvious who feels humiliated here

Story of your life really  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
I certainly would have credibility. I can put forward a very grounded and measured argument and can substantiate things without feeling the need to concoct falsehoods and mispresent others.

You're just the boy who cried wolf. We all saw that on the Cancelled thread.

And you're easily humiliated when your past viewpoints show your current viewpoints to be nothing more than a very emotional and vindictive grudge being exercised.

Apart from incorrect stories taken from Gript.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:26:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
I certainly would have credibility. I can put forward a very grounded and measured argument and can substantiate things without feeling the need to concoct falsehoods and mispresent others.

You're just the boy who cried wolf. We all saw that on the Cancelled thread.

And you're easily humiliated when your past viewpoints show your current viewpoints to be nothing more than a very emotional and vindictive grudge being exercised.
"Emotional and vindictive"  ;D ;D ;D

I think it's fairly obvious who feels humiliated here

Story of your life really  ;D

See the difference between me and you is I have substantiated my posts.

I've pointed out to your contradictory viewpoints. You would describe your former self as a rabid shinnerbot and now you're a rabid shinnerbasher. That's a clear indication of someone who is vindictive, emotive, extreme and of very flaky moral values to do such an incredible 180.

I've also referenced how you're the boy who cried wolf in the Cancelled thread when you accused me of making allegations against you no other poster could see.

That's all substantive.

You must be ashamed of your former self given your current views on SF?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 07, 2021, 03:27:45 PM
You two boys are heading to the naughty step again at current rate ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:30:07 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
I certainly would have credibility. I can put forward a very grounded and measured argument and can substantiate things without feeling the need to concoct falsehoods and mispresent others.

You're just the boy who cried wolf. We all saw that on the Cancelled thread.

And you're easily humiliated when your past viewpoints show your current viewpoints to be nothing more than a very emotional and vindictive grudge being exercised.

Apart from incorrect stories taken from Gript.  ;D ;D ;D

You're making the same baseless charge again.

You're the poster who referenced Gript and clarified what they say and don't say. It seems that all you have in your locker is spamming up the board with the same baseless allegation repeatedly across a number of threads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 07, 2021, 03:31:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 02:55:20 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/9/3/933ad2db899d6de384fc960fcbe0eb5e27eb1927.png)

Sidbots.
Ahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 03:32:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:30:07 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
I certainly would have credibility. I can put forward a very grounded and measured argument and can substantiate things without feeling the need to concoct falsehoods and mispresent others.

You're just the boy who cried wolf. We all saw that on the Cancelled thread.

And you're easily humiliated when your past viewpoints show your current viewpoints to be nothing more than a very emotional and vindictive grudge being exercised.

Apart from incorrect stories taken from Gript.  ;D ;D ;D

You're making the same baseless charge again.

You're the poster who referenced Gript and clarified what they say and don't say. It seems that all you have in your locker is spamming up the board with the same baseless allegation repeatedly across a number of threads.

You've just proved a point. Thank you.

You replied here but on covid thread have ignored, yet again, a question out to you.

As expected. Deny. Deflect. Disappear.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: labane1917 on April 07, 2021, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
I certainly would have credibility. I can put forward a very grounded and measured argument and can substantiate things without feeling the need to concoct falsehoods and mispresent others.

You're just the boy who cried wolf. We all saw that on the Cancelled thread.

And you're easily humiliated when your past viewpoints show your current viewpoints to be nothing more than a very emotional and vindictive grudge being exercised.

Apart from incorrect stories taken from Gript.  ;D ;D ;D
Angelo has a bit of a "reputation" across multiple forums. On thefreekick.com, which I also post on, he has a litany of accounts. All make great play of being Italian, and of being huge Celtic, Tyrone, Roma and Rafa Nadal supporters. All these accounts are viciously anti-semitic.

And curiously, all of these accounts proudly class the person behind them as asexual. I wonder what the odds are of there being seven anti-semitic, asexual Italians from Tyrone who support Celtic, Roma and Rafa Nadal?

He's posted about 50 messages on that forum already today and I see he's done the same here. This is par for the course with him. He's an extremely sad case.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 03:44:49 PM
Quote from: labane1917 on April 07, 2021, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
I certainly would have credibility. I can put forward a very grounded and measured argument and can substantiate things without feeling the need to concoct falsehoods and mispresent others.

You're just the boy who cried wolf. We all saw that on the Cancelled thread.

And you're easily humiliated when your past viewpoints show your current viewpoints to be nothing more than a very emotional and vindictive grudge being exercised.

Apart from incorrect stories taken from Gript.  ;D ;D ;D
Angelo has a bit of a "reputation" across multiple forums. On thefreekick.com, which I also post on, he has a litany of accounts. All make great play of being Italian, and of being huge Celtic, Tyrone, Roma and Rafa Nadal supporters. All these accounts are viciously anti-semitic.

And curiously, all of these accounts proudly class the person behind them as asexual. I wonder what the odds are of there being seven anti-semitic, asexual Italians from Tyrone who support Celtic, Roma and Rafa Nadal?

He's posted about 50 messages on that forum already today and I see he's done the same here. This is par for the course with him. He's an extremely sad case.

Very interesting.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: labane1917 on April 07, 2021, 04:22:45 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 03:44:49 PM
Quote from: labane1917 on April 07, 2021, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 07, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
I certainly would have credibility. I can put forward a very grounded and measured argument and can substantiate things without feeling the need to concoct falsehoods and mispresent others.

You're just the boy who cried wolf. We all saw that on the Cancelled thread.

And you're easily humiliated when your past viewpoints show your current viewpoints to be nothing more than a very emotional and vindictive grudge being exercised.

Apart from incorrect stories taken from Gript.  ;D ;D ;D
Angelo has a bit of a "reputation" across multiple forums. On thefreekick.com, which I also post on, he has a litany of accounts. All make great play of being Italian, and of being huge Celtic, Tyrone, Roma and Rafa Nadal supporters. All these accounts are viciously anti-semitic.

And curiously, all of these accounts proudly class the person behind them as asexual. I wonder what the odds are of there being seven anti-semitic, asexual Italians from Tyrone who support Celtic, Roma and Rafa Nadal?

He's posted about 50 messages on that forum already today and I see he's done the same here. This is par for the course with him. He's an extremely sad case.

Very interesting.
Let's start with the anti-semitism. Angelo's current main account on The Free Kick is "Fulvio From Aughnacloy". His other accounts were Cicero Dandi, Nembo Kid, Il Bomber Destro, Rudi and Mr. Totti. I may even have forgotten one or two there. All anti-semitic, asexual Italians from Tyrone who support Celtic, Roma and Rafa Nadal.

There are some beauties there if you look. Such as these...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyYSsqlWEAwnYu0?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyYShVgWEAQLnZH?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyYSZ07XIAMUZr2?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyYSmpqWEAQJVZA?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 07, 2021, 04:49:31 PM
Here we go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 05:00:35 PM
There is a large Italian community in Tyrone, could be anyone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 12, 2021, 11:14:49 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/lawto-stop-social-media-management-abroad-for-political-parties-after-sinn-fein-revelations-40301728.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 12, 2021, 11:45:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2021, 11:14:49 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/lawto-stop-social-media-management-abroad-for-political-parties-after-sinn-fein-revelations-40301728.html
Hilarious, presumably Mary Lou (or anyone for that matter) won't be allowed to tweet next time she's on her hollybobs?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 14, 2021, 05:08:33 PM
Data Protection on the case
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/data-watchdog-writes-to-sinn-fein-over-secret-database-with-personal-details-on-millions-of-voters-40313423.html

"Sinn Féin has have said they have complied with all GDPR requirements but have refused to answer questions about how Abú system works and what information is being stored relating to voters."
This is not a policy that the Data Protection Commissioner would agree with.

It seems that this system scrapes Facebook, in which case it will get SFA about me.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on April 15, 2021, 01:49:36 PM
"Michelle O'Neill invited you to like their page. You recently liked their post"

I'm fairly certain I didn't like Michelle O'Neill's post, certainly not recently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 18, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
https://m.independent.ie/news/i-am-sorry-that-happened-sinn-fein-leader-mary-lou-mcdonalds-apology-for-ira-murder-of-lord-mountbatten-40327124.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 18, 2021, 11:25:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
https://m.independent.ie/news/i-am-sorry-that-happened-sinn-fein-leader-mary-lou-mcdonalds-apology-for-ira-murder-of-lord-mountbatten-40327124.html
Poor from Mary Lou. 13 dead not forgotten. We got 18 and Mountbatten.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Silver hill on April 19, 2021, 08:29:35 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 18, 2021, 11:25:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
https://m.independent.ie/news/i-am-sorry-that-happened-sinn-fein-leader-mary-lou-mcdonalds-apology-for-ira-murder-of-lord-mountbatten-40327124.html
Poor from Mary Lou. 13 dead not forgotten. We got 18 and Mountbatten.

Necessary if Sinn Fein are to move on and have any chance of softening the unionist perception that they are toxic although with the rump that's leading unionism at present sackcloth and barefoot and begging forgiveness still wouldn't be enough for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 19, 2021, 09:07:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 18, 2021, 11:25:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2021, 07:37:58 PM
https://m.independent.ie/news/i-am-sorry-that-happened-sinn-fein-leader-mary-lou-mcdonalds-apology-for-ira-murder-of-lord-mountbatten-40327124.html
Poor from Mary Lou. 13 dead not forgotten. We got 18 and Mountbatten.

Equality, Respect, Integrity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 23, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-admits-sinn-feins-secret-voter-database-was-not-in-compliance-with-data-protection-laws-40345727.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 23, 2021, 09:29:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 23, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-admits-sinn-feins-secret-voter-database-was-not-in-compliance-with-data-protection-laws-40345727.html

Something off round this. The very slow denials and failure to provide information on it. Matt Carty was on local radio and was asked and he said it was an "IT matter", was pushed a bit on the this and lost the head on it.

Someone seems to be gently pushing this along. First was the comments about Facebook admins overseas and now where the data is held. Is there a 3rd party using the both in the background for social media targeting like Cambridge Analytics? Seems a stretch.

Not surprised they don't have a data protection officer, who'd be one as it's an awful area to be on top off including GDPR. Likely other parties all at the same as they don't seem to be stoking this too much.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 23, 2021, 01:33:18 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 23, 2021, 09:29:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 23, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-admits-sinn-feins-secret-voter-database-was-not-in-compliance-with-data-protection-laws-40345727.html

Something off round this. The very slow denials and failure to provide information on it. Matt Carty was on local radio and was asked and he said it was an "IT matter", was pushed a bit on the this and lost the head on it.

Someone seems to be gently pushing this along. First was the comments about Facebook admins overseas and now where the data is held. Is there a 3rd party using the both in the background for social media targeting like Cambridge Analytics? Seems a stretch.

Not surprised they don't have a data protection officer, who'd be one as it's an awful area to be on top off including GDPR. Likely other parties all at the same as they don't seem to be stoking this too much.

Evil Party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 23, 2021, 10:16:45 PM
As soon as I heard this non-story, I just knew who would be on this thread falling for the propaganda.

I must say though, it's funny seeing how the story has backfired with a succession of FG websites going down for "maintenance" over the past 12 hours.

Weirdly, the Indo fella who has been deperately trying hard all week too talk about SFs websites etc has not tweeted all day about these FG websites going down.

Who'd have thunk it, that a few days after it transpired that the Tanaiste's phone was seized by Gardaí as part of a criminal investigation, that the media would attempt to manufacture some B.S. "story" about Sinn Féin.

Just imagine for 5 seconds what the media would be like were it Mary Lou's phone that was seized by Gardaí. And the sort of posts we'd be seeing about it from Louther/Fear Bun na S. etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Silver hill on April 24, 2021, 09:20:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 23, 2021, 01:33:18 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 23, 2021, 09:29:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 23, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-admits-sinn-feins-secret-voter-database-was-not-in-compliance-with-data-protection-laws-40345727.html

Something off round this. The very slow denials and failure to provide information on it. Matt Carty was on local radio and was asked and he said it was an "IT matter", was pushed a bit on the this and lost the head on it.

Someone seems to be gently pushing this along. First was the comments about Facebook admins overseas and now where the data is held. Is there a 3rd party using the both in the background for social media targeting like Cambridge Analytics? Seems a stretch.

Not surprised they don't have a data protection officer, who'd be one as it's an awful area to be on top off including GDPR. Likely other parties all at the same as they don't seem to be stoking this too much.

Evil Party

Did a Sinn Fein member's daughter turn you down for a dance during the slow set in Earth back in the day?
Or did a member's son steal your best conked cos you are definitely mentally scarred Sir about something and have some hard on for Sinn Fein.

Shock horror....Political party have information on voters stored on a computer.....what party doesn't.....move on, nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 24, 2021, 01:17:03 PM
Did another party start deleting websites last week? I'm sure it will be in the 6 o clock news this evening.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 01:35:47 PM
Is a GDPR breach a big story? I'm not sure. GDPR breaches occur in every walk of life everyday. The vast majority go completely unnoticed.

People wondering if SF know who they vote for haven't beyond the headline. The only reason they would know if you don't vote SF is if you told them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2021, 02:17:28 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 01:35:47 PM
Is a GDPR breach a big story? I'm not sure. GDPR breaches occur in every walk of life everyday. The vast majority go completely unnoticed.

We should be able to expect higher standards from a political party which expects to be in government and which is collecting information on the entire adult population.

QuotePeople wondering if SF know who they vote for haven't beyond the headline. The only reason they would know if you don't vote SF is if you told them.

THey don't know, but they are scraping Facebook etc for clues.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 24, 2021, 03:31:06 PM
Thought Michelle O'Neill was impressive on late late show. Tubridys lack of empathy and rapport with  her was shocking tbh. For someone with a republican background he just doesn't understand the North, and promotes the partitionist view that because of the threat of loyalist violence , we should just put up and shut up. He does some things well but he matches Gay Byrne and pat kenny in his disdain for northern republicans.....it must be drilled into them in RTE.
She couldn't have been more apologetic about the storey funeral, and her respect for the unionist tradition was clear. I think she has a point about misogyny, and people should judge her on her merits and her reconciliatory words , rather than pre-conceived ideas. I'm no cheerleader for SF , but credit where it's due.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 24, 2021, 03:47:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 01:35:47 PM


People wondering if SF know who they vote for haven't beyond the headline. The only reason they would know if you don't vote SF is if you told them.
A few bucks on this forum tell us regularly who we've voted for (usually wrongly but sure when you're stereotyping....).
Sam, I didn't see O'Neill as I can't watch the LLS while that overpaid talentless fckn gobsh1te is presenting it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on April 24, 2021, 03:54:36 PM
Tubridy was despicable. A hypocritical RTE lackey.

He looked at Michelle like she was shite on his shoe. The opening question about her republican background set the tone and content of the interview. I don't think there was anything else he could have thrown at her. The Storey funeral has been discussed for a year now. Didn't she already apologise for it? Give it a f**kin rest!

I'm no voter of SF, but she handled it very well. But an absolutely pathetic interview from Tubridy yet again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 24, 2021, 04:08:49 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 24, 2021, 03:31:06 PM
Thought Michelle O'Neill was impressive on late late show. Tubridys lack of empathy and rapport with  her was shocking tbh. For someone with a republican background he just doesn't understand the North, and promotes the partitionist view that because of the threat of loyalist violence , we should just put up and shut up. He does some things well but he matches Gay Byrne and pat kenny in his disdain for northern republicans.....it must be drilled into them in RTE.
She couldn't have been more apologetic about the storey funeral, and her respect for the unionist tradition was clear. I think she has a point about misogyny, and people should judge her on her merits and her reconciliatory words , rather than pre-conceived ideas. I'm no cheerleader for SF , but credit where it's due.
I thought she was quite impressive and, given Mary Lou's performance, the previous night, it's been a PR success for SF. Tubridy didn't come across well. He's fine on the likes of Toy Shows and the likes but he was painfully out of his depth last night.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 04:10:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2021, 02:17:28 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 01:35:47 PM
Is a GDPR breach a big story? I'm not sure. GDPR breaches occur in every walk of life everyday. The vast majority go completely unnoticed.

We should be able to expect higher standards from a political party which expects to be in government and which is collecting information on the entire adult population.

QuotePeople wondering if SF know who they vote for haven't beyond the headline. The only reason they would know if you don't vote SF is if you told them.

THey don't know, but they are scraping Facebook etc for clues.

People really shouldn't be shocked when they post political stuff in a public forum with their name attached to it. Anyone can see their Facebook.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 23, 2021, 10:16:45 PM
As soon as I heard this non-story, I just knew who would be on this thread falling for the propaganda.

I must say though, it's funny seeing how the story has backfired with a succession of FG websites going down for "maintenance" over the past 12 hours.

Weirdly, the Indo fella who has been deperately trying hard all week too talk about SFs websites etc has not tweeted all day about these FG websites going down.

Who'd have thunk it, that a few days after it transpired that the Tanaiste's phone was seized by Gardaí as part of a criminal investigation, that the media would attempt to manufacture some B.S. "story" about Sinn Féin.

Just imagine for 5 seconds what the media would be like were it Mary Lou's phone that was seized by Gardaí. And the sort of posts we'd be seeing about it from Louther/Fear Bun na S. etc.

What in actual feck are you blabbering on about .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 24, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
Not surprising to see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth about something they don't even understand.

Meanwhile the FG had to pull their website due to GDPR breaches last night and blanket silence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 24, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
Not surprising to see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth about something they don't even understand.

Meanwhile the FG had to pull their website due to GDPR breaches last night and blanket silence.

I tell you what I can't understand. MON talking.  Machine gun on steroids
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 07:30:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 24, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
Not surprising to see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth about something they don't even understand.

Meanwhile the FG had to pull their website due to GDPR breaches last night and blanket silence.

I tell you what I can't understand. MON talking.  Machine gun on steroids

Hmm maybe you should get to know some of the different accents in our country in that case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:38:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 07:30:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 24, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
Not surprising to see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth about something they don't even understand.

Meanwhile the FG had to pull their website due to GDPR breaches last night and blanket silence.

I tell you what I can't understand. MON talking.  Machine gun on steroids

Hmm maybe you should get to know some of the different accents in our country in that case.

It's not the accent . It's the not taking a breath when she speaks. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on April 24, 2021, 07:46:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 07:30:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 24, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
Not surprising to see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth about something they don't even understand.

Meanwhile the FG had to pull their website due to GDPR breaches last night and blanket silence.

I tell you what I can't understand. MON talking.  Machine gun on steroids

Hmm maybe you should get to know some of the different accents in our country in that case.

People from Tyrone should learn to communicate in a fashion others can understand!! It's a car... not a kyaaaaarrrr!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 08:05:40 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2021, 07:46:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 07:30:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 24, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
Not surprising to see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth about something they don't even understand.

Meanwhile the FG had to pull their website due to GDPR breaches last night and blanket silence.

I tell you what I can't understand. MON talking.  Machine gun on steroids

Hmm maybe you should get to know some of the different accents in our country in that case.

People from Tyrone should learn to communicate in a fashion others can understand!! It's a car... not a kyaaaaarrrr!

Lol I have to confess we say that here in Derry city too
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 24, 2021, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:38:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 07:30:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 24, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
Not surprising to see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth about something they don't even understand.

Meanwhile the FG had to pull their website due to GDPR breaches last night and blanket silence.

I tell you what I can't understand. MON talking.  Machine gun on steroids

Hmm maybe you should get to know some of the different accents in our country in that case.

It's not the accent . It's the not taking a breath when she speaks.

MON has a fairly standard east Tyrone accent. I don't come from east Tyrone and I understood her without any difficulty . I think her accent has been used as a stick to beat her with, in much the same way as others ridicule  Arlene's looks. Let's judge them on their contribution rather than their looks/voice.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on April 24, 2021, 08:26:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 08:05:40 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2021, 07:46:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 07:30:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 24, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
Not surprising to see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth about something they don't even understand.

Meanwhile the FG had to pull their website due to GDPR breaches last night and blanket silence.

I tell you what I can't understand. MON talking.  Machine gun on steroids

Hmm maybe you should get to know some of the different accents in our country in that case.

People from Tyrone should learn to communicate in a fashion others can understand!! It's a car... not a kyaaaaarrrr!

Lol I have to confess we say that here in Derry city too

And Armagh. Pupils in England used to try to mimick it all the time
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: grounded on April 24, 2021, 09:45:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2021, 03:54:36 PM
Tubridy was despicable. A hypocritical RTE lackey.

He looked at Michelle like she was shite on his shoe. The opening question about her republican background set the tone and content of the interview. I don't think there was anything else he could have thrown at her. The Storey funeral has been discussed for a year now. Didn't she already apologise for it? Give it a f**kin rest!

I'm no voter of SF, but she handled it very well. But an absolutely pathetic interview from Tubridy yet again.

Yep, the contrast to his interview of Arlene was quite stark.
        In any event i thought she handled the it very well. Tubs well out of his depth in these sorts of interviews. A sort of condescending(while having limited in depth knowledge) interview.
       If this gdpr business affects a single sf voter or potential sf voter i'd be amazed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2021, 09:48:18 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 24, 2021, 08:26:54 PM
And Armagh. Pupils in England used to try to mimick it all the time

When I was at school the French teacher was introducing the word "car" (because) and said it should be pronounced in a South Armagh manner. She then asked one of my compatriots how Cross people said car and he replied "yoke", which rather spoiled her point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 11:48:39 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 24, 2021, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:38:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 24, 2021, 07:30:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 24, 2021, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 24, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
Not surprising to see the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth about something they don't even understand.

Meanwhile the FG had to pull their website due to GDPR breaches last night and blanket silence.

I tell you what I can't understand. MON talking.  Machine gun on steroids

Hmm maybe you should get to know some of the different accents in our country in that case.

It's not the accent . It's the not taking a breath when she speaks.

MON has a fairly standard east Tyrone accent. I don't come from east Tyrone and I understood her without any difficulty . I think her accent has been used as a stick to beat her with, in much the same way as others ridicule  Arlene's looks. Let's judge them on their contribution rather than their looks/voice.

Agreed. Not good at that either though. I hate the ugly memes of Arlene stuff, vile
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on April 25, 2021, 01:30:57 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.
You been on the pop, big lad?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on April 25, 2021, 01:34:09 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.
How can you guarantee that 'they' will prosper in a UI?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 02:13:57 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 25, 2021, 01:34:09 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.
How can you guarantee that 'they' will prosper in a UI?

I can't, but I do suggest that they have more chance of prospering in a UI than in a statelet needing subvention and propped up on public service jobs. My point is whether they prosper or not is irrelevant and does not come into 'their' thinking.

Tell me where an Intel Fab. is based in the north, or IBM, or HP, Google, Facebook, or Apple etc. etc.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Silver hill on April 25, 2021, 08:55:53 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 02:13:57 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 25, 2021, 01:34:09 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.
How can you guarantee that 'they' will prosper in a UI?

I can't, but I do suggest that they have more chance of prospering in a UI than in a statelet needing subvention and propped up on public service jobs. My point is whether they prosper or not is irrelevant and does not come into 'their' thinking.

Tell me where an Intel Fab. is based in the north, or IBM, or HP, Google, Facebook, or Apple etc. etc.

Northern unionists / Protestants just need to speak to or hear from southern Protestants living there about their experiences. I may be completely wrong but anecdotally, they are not victims of intolerance or persecuted because of ethnicity. The new Ireland that I see now seems to be one of the most progressive and tolerant in Europe (apart from racism which seems to be taking longer to remove). Northern unionists moving into The south will a block vote of c1m voters would leave them in a very strong position in any coilition government.
The fear needs to be removed, they need to be courted and gently reassured.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 09:20:22 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 25, 2021, 01:30:57 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.
You been on the pop, big lad?
😂 so asking unionists to contemplate a  position similar to what  nationalists are expected to endure in the North, means that I'm on the sauce. I always respect and enjoy your perspective michaelg, but even as a reasonable unionist you maybe have more in common with DUP than you would admit- in showing little empathy for the position of nationalists in the North, and indeed all in these islands who have been stifled by Northern conflict . In my opinion, This "dog in a manger" unionism remains the biggest barrier to resolving the conflict here .
The other factor which many throw up , is that "the south couldn't afford us" . The UK will be happy to part  finance any new arrangements , to resolve the Irish conflict , and offload a "country" which many Brits view as requiring much financial and political resource, for little return . These are the realities unionists have to be realistic about .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on April 25, 2021, 09:26:43 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2021, 09:48:18 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 24, 2021, 08:26:54 PM
And Armagh. Pupils in England used to try to mimick it all the time

When I was at school the French teacher was introducing the word "car" (because) and said it should be pronounced in a South Armagh manner. She then asked one of my compatriots how Cross people said car and he replied "yoke", which rather spoiled her point.

This made me laugh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on April 25, 2021, 10:29:52 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.

I absolutely agree with you, but can it considered a new, inclusive Ireland if Unionists haven't been involved in the discussions/planning?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on April 25, 2021, 10:36:03 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 02:13:57 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 25, 2021, 01:34:09 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.
How can you guarantee that 'they' will prosper in a UI?

I can't, but I do suggest that they have more chance of prospering in a UI than in a statelet needing subvention and propped up on public service jobs. My point is whether they prosper or not is irrelevant and does not come into 'their' thinking.

Tell me where an Intel Fab. is based in the north, or IBM, or HP, Google, Facebook, or Apple etc. etc.

The north has been neglected, under-funded, screwed, f**ked over by successive British governments. The South has been screwed and f**ked over by successive governments, the EU and the IMF.

There is no guarantee anyone will prosper in a UI. Not with these vultures circling overhead.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 10:49:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 25, 2021, 10:29:52 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.

I absolutely agree with you, but can it considered a new, inclusive Ireland if Unionists haven't been involved in the discussions/planning?

Unionists are as welcome as anyone else in the discussions. However their reluctance to look at any other solution other than an extension of woefully failed status quo, adopting a "dog in the manger" stance , should not prevent others from exploring options. Obviously  leaving the door open for unionists to join in the discussions at any time , with every option on the table ( even the status quo despite its failure)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 12:37:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 25, 2021, 10:36:03 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 02:13:57 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 25, 2021, 01:34:09 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.
How can you guarantee that 'they' will prosper in a UI?

I can't, but I do suggest that they have more chance of prospering in a UI than in a statelet needing subvention and propped up on public service jobs. My point is whether they prosper or not is irrelevant and does not come into 'their' thinking.

Tell me where an Intel Fab. is based in the north, or IBM, or HP, Google, Facebook, or Apple etc. etc.

The north has been neglected, under-funded, screwed, f**ked over by successive British governments. The South has been screwed and f**ked over by successive governments, the EU and the IMF.

There is no guarantee anyone will prosper in a UI. Not with these vultures circling overhead.

A simple glance at Wikipedia shows :" At nearly £5,000 per capita, Northern Ireland's is the highest, followed by a £4,300 per capita fiscal deficit in Wales and £4,100 in North East England. ... The subsidy paid to Northern Ireland is larger than the net amount of £8.9 billion that the United Kingdom paid to the European Union annually before Brexit."

You can say alot about the "Brits " but it's hard to argue that they underfund NI . In fact if they had offloaded NI, they could have effectively enjoyed EU membership for free🤦🏻‍♂️. It's not quite as simple as that but interesting that since Uk held onto NI and the vast majority of the GDP of the island in 1921, they have presided over a regressive economic basket case, that's costing them a fortune. Any Objective Uk government would see it as sensible to promote and significantly part-fund new constitutional arrangements on this island. The status quo doesn't appear to be a realistic option.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: delgany on April 25, 2021, 01:25:07 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 12:37:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 25, 2021, 10:36:03 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 02:13:57 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 25, 2021, 01:34:09 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.
How can you guarantee that 'they' will prosper in a UI?

I can't, but I do suggest that they have more chance of prospering in a UI than in a statelet needing subvention and propped up on public service jobs. My point is whether they prosper or not is irrelevant and does not come into 'their' thinking.

Tell me where an Intel Fab. is based in the north, or IBM, or HP, Google, Facebook, or Apple etc. etc.

The north has been neglected, under-funded, screwed, f**ked over by successive British governments. The South has been screwed and f**ked over by successive governments, the EU and the IMF.

There is no guarantee anyone will prosper in a UI. Not with these vultures circling overhead.

A simple glance at Wikipedia shows :" At nearly £5,000 per capita, Northern Ireland's is the highest, followed by a £4,300 per capita fiscal deficit in Wales and £4,100 in North East England. ... The subsidy paid to Northern Ireland is larger than the net amount of £8.9 billion that the United Kingdom paid to the European Union annually before Brexit."

You can say alot about the "Brits " but it's hard to argue that they underfund NI . In fact if they had offloaded NI, they could have effectively enjoyed EU membership for free🤦🏻‍♂️. It's not quite as simple as that but interesting that since Uk held onto NI and the vast majority of the GDP of the island in 1921, they have presided over a regressive economic basket case, that's costing them a fortune. Any Objective Uk government would see it as sensible to promote and significantly part-fund new constitutional arrangements on this island. The status quo doesn't appear to be a realistic option.

You need to put the subvention in context, £13 Billion is just over 2% of the  direct income & Nat.Ins. taxation, HMRC collected £584.3 billion in taxes in 2020 to 2021. So is funding the biggest issue....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: BennyCake on April 25, 2021, 01:28:24 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 10:49:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 25, 2021, 10:29:52 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 25, 2021, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Granted, I'm no expert on SF's politics in Northern Ireland but I was under the impression that the Shinners were demanding a UI referendum right now. Listening to Michelle last night,it seems they are looking for negotiations to begin which is a different matter. I mean iif there is going to be a UI at sometime in the future, discussions have to begin sometime and if that all SF are looking for, I am alll for it.

Agree . I think an all-island solution would leave the island in a much better place. We already punch above our weight in many things and as a people are liked and respected worldwide. Take the conflict out of it and we can realise our potential . The South has done well in many aspects particularly in recent years but the "northern question" continues to hold us all back . MON has shown remarkable pragmatism and resilience in maintaining in government with the DUP . The GFA of its time was a success because DUP had to buy in to arrangements they didn't like (albeit kicking and screaming ).
Similarly with all-island constitutional change. Northern republicans had to swallow  living under British jurisdiction because their irishness was supposed to be equally respected . Why should unionists who were happy for republicans to do that post GFA , not be by prepared to accept the same in new arrangements . Look at the French  in Canada,  or Belgian arrangements,  as well as GFA for precedent.

There in is the problem ... Unionists will not be subjective, they will not partake in sensible reasoning discussions, they will gladly walk off a cliff edge rather than prosper in a UI ... sad, but true.  Entering into discussions ref. a UI means they've already lost the argument, for them, it is the union with the UK that matters, and nothing else.  Still, that should not prevent the discussion taking place, whether unionists want to be part of those discussions or not.

I absolutely agree with you, but can it considered a new, inclusive Ireland if Unionists haven't been involved in the discussions/planning?

Unionists are as welcome as anyone else in the discussions. However their reluctance to look at any other solution other than an extension of woefully failed status quo, adopting a "dog in the manger" stance , should not prevent others from exploring options. Obviously  leaving the door open for unionists to join in the discussions at any time , with every option on the table ( even the status quo despite its failure)

So, if the planning/discussions on a united Ireland proved it to be economically unviable, would Nat/Rep parties still doggedly push ahead with it?

Would that not be the same as Unionists remaining firm on their support for the north to remain in the UK, even if that makes no economic sense either (especially post-Brexit)?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on April 25, 2021, 01:38:24 PM
I brought the prospect of a UI up with with two protestant colleagues recently, both early 40's, educated with small families. Both said they voted unionist and would in general be pro staying in the union. But both want to see the numbers, see the pro's and con's, both travel from Portadown area to work in Dublin daily for the better wages. These are the people the argument needs to be made too. Forget Arlene, Campbell and Jamie Bin Bryson they don't want to engage so I wouldn't even waste energy on them.

Why not have a citizen's forum, the Rev Karen Sethuraman has argued for a long time for one, I am sure Ian Marshall would sit on it. Publish a live working document, start the real conversation.

The problem is FFG fear a border poll more than Unionists. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 25, 2021, 02:00:16 PM
The problem here is that SF have zero credibility on economic issues. Someone said that there was no Google in NI, but SF's plan for unity probably involves taxing the bajaysus out of Google so that there will be no Google anywhere, or at a minimum they are unlikely to expand. London spends a great deal in NI and it doesn't make sense for them to play hardball on  the deal. However, the problem here is that they do not want Scotland to leave and do not want them to get a soft deal. Now you could have a rasonable formula that gives a different answer for NI and Scotland but I don't see much work going into this matter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
"pbat" was going well with a very sensible post but let's himself down with the "FFG" botism :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 25, 2021, 03:44:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2021, 02:00:16 PM
The problem here is that SF have zero credibility on economic issues. Someone said that there was no Google in NI, but SF's plan for unity probably involves taxing the bajaysus out of Google so that there will be no Google anywhere, or at a minimum they are unlikely to expand. London spends a great deal in NI and it doesn't make sense for them to play hardball on  the deal. However, the problem here is that they do not want Scotland to leave and do not want them to get a soft deal. Now you could have a rasonable formula that gives a different answer for NI and Scotland but I don't see much work going into this matter.

What parties have economic credibility on this island? The two establishment parties down south have less economic credibility than SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
"pbat" was going well with a very sensible post but let's himself down with the "FFG" botism :-\

Why do some of the northern posters keep claiming FF/FG don't want/are afraid/against a border poll? It has no basis in reality and makes no sense.

Outside of SF none of the political parties in the south ever bring up or have released their policies on a united Ireland as the electorate in the south don't see this as even remotely relevant and it won't be happening anytime soon.

Until SF publish their policy (as the only political party who are calling for for a poll) to force FG/FF to take a position no one knows what the rest of the political parties in the south will do
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 05:04:34 PM
But SF can't do that as one of their spokesmen on this Board said FF and FG would criticise the plans ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
"pbat" was going well with a very sensible post but let's himself down with the "FFG" botism :-\

Why do some of the northern posters keep claiming FF/FG don't want/are afraid/against a border poll? It has no basis in reality and makes no sense.

Outside of SF none of the political parties in the south ever bring up or have released their policies on a united Ireland as the electorate in the south don't see this as even remotely relevant and it won't be happening anytime soon.

Until SF publish their policy (as the only political party who are calling for for a poll) to force FG/FF to take a position no one knows what the rest of the political parties in the south will do

Are you serious?
I have no party political alignment, but I've seen you
roundly criticise SF at every juncture, yet you're waiting for them to lead the two parties who have shared power between them since the foundation of the state .
I think it's sad (and a major barrier to progress) when those from the 26 counties who are proud of their republic, have no interest or empathy for fellow republicans up North whose ancestors helped the formation of that republic, but were left to paddle their own canoe in a sectarian anti-Irish state.
Maybe  it's a case of Mé Féiners against Sinn Féiners?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
"pbat" was going well with a very sensible post but let's himself down with the "FFG" botism :-\

Why do some of the northern posters keep claiming FF/FG don't want/are afraid/against a border poll? It has no basis in reality and makes no sense.

Outside of SF none of the political parties in the south ever bring up or have released their policies on a united Ireland as the electorate in the south don't see this as even remotely relevant and it won't be happening anytime soon.

Until SF publish their policy (as the only political party who are calling for for a poll) to force FG/FF to take a position no one knows what the rest of the political parties in the south will do

Are you serious?
I have no party political alignment, but I've seen you
roundly criticise SF at every juncture, yet you're waiting for them to lead the two parties who have shared power between them since the foundation of the state .
I think it's sad (and a major barrier to progress) when those from the 26 counties who are proud of their republic, have no interest or empathy for fellow republicans up North whose ancestors helped the formation of that republic, but were left to paddle their own canoe in a sectarian anti-Irish state.
Maybe  it's a case of Mé Féiners against Sinn Féiners?

I'm simply pointing out in the south a united Ireland is not a political issue or something the vast majority care about. That's not because of some crazy FF/FG conspiracy or agenda, but because for most of the people a united Ireland is something they'd like in theory. Issues like the economy, health service, housing etc are way way more important to them than some idealogical point. You consider it sad, but that's the way it is.

What exactly are people like me in the south doing to put a barrier to a united Ireland? Surely it's up to the people in NI to decide that for themselves or force the issue?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on April 25, 2021, 08:00:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
"pbat" was going well with a very sensible post but let's himself down with the "FFG" botism :-\

You strike me as a bot yourself
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
"pbat" was going well with a very sensible post but let's himself down with the "FFG" botism :-\

Why do some of the northern posters keep claiming FF/FG don't want/are afraid/against a border poll? It has no basis in reality and makes no sense.

Outside of SF none of the political parties in the south ever bring up or have released their policies on a united Ireland as the electorate in the south don't see this as even remotely relevant and it won't be happening anytime soon.

Until SF publish their policy (as the only political party who are calling for for a poll) to force FG/FF to take a position no one knows what the rest of the political parties in the south will do

Are you serious?
I have no party political alignment, but I've seen you
roundly criticise SF at every juncture, yet you're waiting for them to lead the two parties who have shared power between them since the foundation of the state .
I think it's sad (and a major barrier to progress) when those from the 26 counties who are proud of their republic, have no interest or empathy for fellow republicans up North whose ancestors helped the formation of that republic, but were left to paddle their own canoe in a sectarian anti-Irish state.
Maybe  it's a case of Mé Féiners against Sinn Féiners?

I'm simply pointing out in the south a united Ireland is not a political issue or something the vast majority care about. That's not because of some crazy FF/FG conspiracy or agenda, but because for most of the people a united Ireland is something they'd like in theory. Issues like the economy, health service, housing etc are way way more important to them than some idealogical point. You consider it sad, but that's the way it is.

What exactly are people like me in the south doing to put a barrier to a united Ireland? Surely it's up to the people in NI to decide that for themselves or force the issue?

Thanks for the clarity D7 and Tbf , owning the "Mé Féin" attitude, I find it sad but respect it . I'll explain why that's a barrier to progress. Republicans in the South have lived in their republic since 1921, their republican allies north of the border have endured a sectarian based state in that time. More recently we have been "ruled" by one of the most regressive far-right parties in Europe. The contribution of many in the south ( usually for party political reasons ) is to target SF and espouse an attitude of "you're all the same up there, sort it out amongst yourselves", therefore effectively helping to cement DUP dominance . This attitude is represented by the lack of rapport , disdain , and hypocritical judgement displayed by Ryan Tubridy towards , a very impressive and fair MON on Friday night past. Rather than "pinching your nose" and looking down on Northern republicans, try to appreciate where we come from...walk a mile in the shoes of your fellow countrymen. Even a partitionist can envisage how much more effective we could be as an island in the absence of conflict and a culture of respect and rapport for all. Many of us in the North have great friends who are unionist and respect them. We're not a cantankerous rabble, we're a resilient people ( on both sides) and could contribute enormously to a new Ireland. People like me have a strong affinity with ROI, and yet we are treated as pariahs by many in the South , and that D7 is a barrier to progress. Hopefully you can learn from most ROI posters on this board in appreciating where we are coming from.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 09:16:46 PM
Clearly a united Ireland would be ideal, but it's not going to happen in the short to medium term. That's not anyones fault in the south (politicians or general public) If people in NI want to force a border poll than they should get support from the people and political parties in the south, not expect them to raise it on their behalf. Until SF actually come out and call for a poll (no other party is going to) this issue will continue to be irrelevant come elections in the south for the politicans and the electorate.

I actually think a United Ireland is as far away now as it has ever been. With Brexit, Bobby Storey funeral, unionist riots both sides of the communities seem more divided than ever and to get a border poll passed you'll need to convince a significant number of Unionists that's a good thing. With the bitterness and hostility between SF and the DUP thats not going to happen.

It'll be up to more moderate parties like the SDLP to try and see things from both sides and come to an agreement that gives enough people on both sides what they want to have any hope of passing a border poll as compromise isn't something the DUP/SF seems willing to do for each other
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 09:59:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 09:16:46 PM
Clearly a united Ireland would be ideal, but it's not going to happen in the short to medium term. That's not anyones fault in the south (politicians or general public) If people in NI want to force a border poll than they should get support from the people and political parties in the south, not expect them to raise it on their behalf. Until SF actually come out and call for a poll (no other party is going to) this issue will continue to be irrelevant come elections in the south for the politicans and the electorate.

I actually think a United Ireland is as far away now as it has ever been. With Brexit, Bobby Storey funeral, unionist riots both sides of the communities seem more divided than ever and to get a border poll passed you'll need to convince a significant number of Unionists that's a good thing. With the bitterness and hostility between SF and the DUP thats not going to happen.

It'll be up to more moderate parties like the SDLP to try and see things from both sides and come to an agreement that gives enough people on both sides what they want to have any hope of passing a border poll as compromise isn't something the DUP/SF seems willing to do for each other

Interesting view of things, though overly simplistic and lacking insight into the actual realities up North. Most republicans I know do not feel now is the right time for a border poll  ( MON indicated this on Friday) . However everyone on this island needs to grow up and have mature discussions on the future. John Hume uniquely put party political considerations aside fir the good of all , oh for another leader on this island naive enough to put people before politics🤦🏻‍♂️
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on April 25, 2021, 11:58:57 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
"pbat" was going well with a very sensible post but let's himself down with the "FFG" botism :-\

Why do some of the northern posters keep claiming FF/FG don't want/are afraid/against a border poll? It has no basis in reality and makes no sense.

Outside of SF none of the political parties in the south ever bring up or have released their policies on a united Ireland as the electorate in the south don't see this as even remotely relevant and it won't be happening anytime soon.

Until SF publish their policy (as the only political party who are calling for for a poll) to force FG/FF to take a position no one knows what the rest of the political parties in the south will do

Are you serious?
I have no party political alignment, but I've seen you
roundly criticise SF at every juncture, yet you're waiting for them to lead the two parties who have shared power between them since the foundation of the state .
I think it's sad (and a major barrier to progress) when those from the 26 counties who are proud of their republic, have no interest or empathy for fellow republicans up North whose ancestors helped the formation of that republic, but were left to paddle their own canoe in a sectarian anti-Irish state.
Maybe  it's a case of Mé Féiners against Sinn Féiners?

I'm simply pointing out in the south a united Ireland is not a political issue or something the vast majority care about. That's not because of some crazy FF/FG conspiracy or agenda, but because for most of the people a united Ireland is something they'd like in theory. Issues like the economy, health service, housing etc are way way more important to them than some idealogical point. You consider it sad, but that's the way it is.

What exactly are people like me in the south doing to put a barrier to a united Ireland? Surely it's up to the people in NI to decide that for themselves or force the issue?

Thanks for the clarity D7 and Tbf , owning the "Mé Féin" attitude, I find it sad but respect it . I'll explain why that's a barrier to progress. Republicans in the South have lived in their republic since 1921, their republican allies north of the border have endured a sectarian based state in that time. More recently we have been "ruled" by one of the most regressive far-right parties in Europe. The contribution of many in the south ( usually for party political reasons ) is to target SF and espouse an attitude of "you're all the same up there, sort it out amongst yourselves", therefore effectively helping to cement DUP dominance . This attitude is represented by the lack of rapport , disdain , and hypocritical judgement displayed by Ryan Tubridy towards , a very impressive and fair MON on Friday night past. Rather than "pinching your nose" and looking down on Northern republicans, try to appreciate where we come from...walk a mile in the shoes of your fellow countrymen. Even a partitionist can envisage how much more effective we could be as an island in the absence of conflict and a culture of respect and rapport for all. Many of us in the North have great friends who are unionist and respect them. We're not a cantankerous rabble, we're a resilient people ( on both sides) and could contribute enormously to a new Ireland. People like me have a strong affinity with ROI, and yet we are treated as pariahs by many in the South , and that D7 is a barrier to progress. Hopefully you can learn from most ROI posters on this board in appreciating where we are coming from.
The majority of people in the south would vote tomorrow for a UI and that's unconditional.
D7 is talking through his hole when purporting to speak on behalf of the 'free people'.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 26, 2021, 08:38:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.
You were probably more impressed with tubridy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:39:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

Aw would you ever give it a f***** rest man, it's so tiresome reading the same crap from you on this thread time after time. You clearly have some serious fixation with SF that is verging on unhealthy. The lack of self awareness to mention robots when all it takes is the mention of SF to trigger you is astounding. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:41:25 AM
Quote from: general_lee on April 26, 2021, 08:38:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.
You were probably more impressed with tubridy

Havent watched it since Gaybo.

If she was good she was good, it doesnt need the robotic Goebells style online affirmations.  Imagine my da or yours(grown men ffs) taking time to tweet "I was so impressed by Michelle blah blah blah". It reeks of desperation and looks so contrived and false.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:39:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

Aw would you ever give it a f***** rest man, it's so tiresome reading the same crap from you on this thread time after time. You clearly have some serious fixation with SF that is verging on unhealthy. The lack of self awareness to mention robots when all it takes is the mention of SF to trigger you is astounding.

Oh another mental health expert that has time in his busy psychiatric consultancy schedule to post advice free of charge on GAA board. Lol lol lol. GIMP!!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:52:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:39:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

Aw would you ever give it a f***** rest man, it's so tiresome reading the same crap from you on this thread time after time. You clearly have some serious fixation with SF that is verging on unhealthy. The lack of self awareness to mention robots when all it takes is the mention of SF to trigger you is astounding.

Oh another mental health expert that has time in his busy psychiatric consultancy schedule to post advice free of charge on GAA board. Lol lol lol. GIMP!!

Naw just someone scundered reading the same dung from you over and over again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:52:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:39:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

Aw would you ever give it a f***** rest man, it's so tiresome reading the same crap from you on this thread time after time. You clearly have some serious fixation with SF that is verging on unhealthy. The lack of self awareness to mention robots when all it takes is the mention of SF to trigger you is astounding.

Oh another mental health expert that has time in his busy psychiatric consultancy schedule to post advice free of charge on GAA board. Lol lol lol. GIMP!!

Naw just someone scundered reading the same dung from you over and over again.

Don't read it then. Skip and move on. That's what I do with posters that annoy me . Imagine how hard it is to avoid the repetitive drivel on social media from SF , devoid of any individuality. " I am a Dalek" . I have said before, get them into govt in Free State, lets see what they can do, if Stormont is anything to go by it will be a car crash
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on April 26, 2021, 10:13:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

And another one
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 26, 2021, 10:18:05 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 09:59:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 09:16:46 PM
Clearly a united Ireland would be ideal, but it's not going to happen in the short to medium term. That's not anyones fault in the south (politicians or general public) If people in NI want to force a border poll than they should get support from the people and political parties in the south, not expect them to raise it on their behalf. Until SF actually come out and call for a poll (no other party is going to) this issue will continue to be irrelevant come elections in the south for the politicans and the electorate.

I actually think a United Ireland is as far away now as it has ever been. With Brexit, Bobby Storey funeral, unionist riots both sides of the communities seem more divided than ever and to get a border poll passed you'll need to convince a significant number of Unionists that's a good thing. With the bitterness and hostility between SF and the DUP thats not going to happen.

It'll be up to more moderate parties like the SDLP to try and see things from both sides and come to an agreement that gives enough people on both sides what they want to have any hope of passing a border poll as compromise isn't something the DUP/SF seems willing to do for each other

Interesting view of things, though overly simplistic and lacking insight into the actual realities up North. Most republicans I know do not feel now is the right time for a border poll  ( MON indicated this on Friday) . However everyone on this island needs to grow up and have mature discussions on the future. John Hume uniquely put party political considerations aside fir the good of all , oh for another leader on this island naive enough to put people before politics🤦🏻‍♂️
That, Sam, is what D7& and others are trying to tell you.
The vast majority of southerners don't have any insight into the actual realities u North.
It's not a matter of callous indifference either.
What's coming south of the border is that, somehow, the GFA levelled the pitch for everybody and that everybody up there enjoys parity of esteem. (Most won't even know what that means but they get the general idea!)
I don't think it's true to say that the people down here aren't bothered; it's just that they don't comprehend your day to day difficulties.
The Shinners wanyy a UI poll right now- or so it seems to the unwashed masses south of the border.
MON, IMO anyway, gave a good account of herself on the LLS and I think she was fairly well received but her appearance was a one off wonder. To the best of my knowledge, no one is talking about a UI, now or in the future and that's just the way it is.
What's more, that is not going to change anytime soon. It is not that the public down south don't want you- it's more a case of not knowing what exactly you are looking for.
It is utterly simplistic, and unrealistic, to say that any of the established parties down south should go about campaigning for a UI right. Why should they invite trouble when they know full well that there isn't a hope of getting a  referendum, never mind a UI.
SF is the majority republicam party in the north. This is the party  seeking a referendum.
Okay, MON has clarified their goals somewhat but by the time the next LLS rolls around, she'll have disappeared off the radar.
It SF are serious about opening up a discussion, it is up to them to produce their proposals  for discussion by the general public.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 10:49:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:52:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:39:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

Aw would you ever give it a f***** rest man, it's so tiresome reading the same crap from you on this thread time after time. You clearly have some serious fixation with SF that is verging on unhealthy. The lack of self awareness to mention robots when all it takes is the mention of SF to trigger you is astounding.

Oh another mental health expert that has time in his busy psychiatric consultancy schedule to post advice free of charge on GAA board. Lol lol lol. GIMP!!

Naw just someone scundered reading the same dung from you over and over again.

Don't read it then. Skip and move on. That's what I do with posters that annoy me . Imagine how hard it is to avoid the repetitive drivel on social media from SF , devoid of any individuality. " I am a Dalek" . I have said before, get them into govt in Free State, lets see what they can do, if Stormont is anything to go by it will be a car crash

You are complaining about repetitive drivel on social media from other people in response to a comment about your repetitive drivel on this thread.

I am pointing out to you that it is clear you are obsessed and that you are completely unaware of this, I am trying to do you a favour chief.

Rather than assuming that I am a SF bot why don't you take a deep breath, go back and read your last 100 posts on this thread from the perspective that someone else wrote them and then tell me what is the point of saying 'SF are shit' ten times a day on this thread using a different form of words. It is not rational behaviour.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 26, 2021, 10:50:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

If SF are serious about Government they should stand their online army down. Absolute arseholes all over social media. Instigating pile-ons and like you say robotically tweeting praise for anyone on TV. Chris Donnelly is one of their chief mouth-pieces in the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 11:18:31 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 10:49:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:52:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:39:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

Aw would you ever give it a f***** rest man, it's so tiresome reading the same crap from you on this thread time after time. You clearly have some serious fixation with SF that is verging on unhealthy. The lack of self awareness to mention robots when all it takes is the mention of SF to trigger you is astounding.

Oh another mental health expert that has time in his busy psychiatric consultancy schedule to post advice free of charge on GAA board. Lol lol lol. GIMP!!

Naw just someone scundered reading the same dung from you over and over again.

Don't read it then. Skip and move on. That's what I do with posters that annoy me . Imagine how hard it is to avoid the repetitive drivel on social media from SF , devoid of any individuality. " I am a Dalek" . I have said before, get them into govt in Free State, lets see what they can do, if Stormont is anything to go by it will be a car crash

You are complaining about repetitive drivel on social media from other people in response to a comment about your repetitive drivel on this thread.

I am pointing out to you that it is clear you are obsessed and that you are completely unaware of this, I am trying to do you a favour chief.

Rather than assuming that I am a SF bot why don't you take a deep breath, go back and read your last 100 posts on this thread from the perspective that someone else wrote them and then tell me what is the point of saying 'SF are shit' ten times a day on this thread using a different form of words. It is not rational behaviour.

Trying to do me a favour? Don't talk shite sur, you are saying im mad you p%*ck. If thats doing me a favour id love to see what you say when you are trying the opposite.
Its ok for others to have a 100 posts on the other side of the debate is it though? Grow a brain-cell when you get a chance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 11:41:55 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 11:18:31 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 10:49:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:52:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:39:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

Aw would you ever give it a f***** rest man, it's so tiresome reading the same crap from you on this thread time after time. You clearly have some serious fixation with SF that is verging on unhealthy. The lack of self awareness to mention robots when all it takes is the mention of SF to trigger you is astounding.

Oh another mental health expert that has time in his busy psychiatric consultancy schedule to post advice free of charge on GAA board. Lol lol lol. GIMP!!

Naw just someone scundered reading the same dung from you over and over again.

Don't read it then. Skip and move on. That's what I do with posters that annoy me . Imagine how hard it is to avoid the repetitive drivel on social media from SF , devoid of any individuality. " I am a Dalek" . I have said before, get them into govt in Free State, lets see what they can do, if Stormont is anything to go by it will be a car crash

You are complaining about repetitive drivel on social media from other people in response to a comment about your repetitive drivel on this thread.

I am pointing out to you that it is clear you are obsessed and that you are completely unaware of this, I am trying to do you a favour chief.

Rather than assuming that I am a SF bot why don't you take a deep breath, go back and read your last 100 posts on this thread from the perspective that someone else wrote them and then tell me what is the point of saying 'SF are shit' ten times a day on this thread using a different form of words. It is not rational behaviour.

Trying to do me a favour? Don't talk shite sur, you are saying im mad you p%*ck. If thats doing me a favour id love to see what you say when you are trying the opposite.
Its ok for others to have a 100 posts on the other side of the debate is it though? Grow a brain-cell when you get a chance.

There's not much of a debate with you. There is no balance.

It's just a constant one sided smear campaign on one political party. You are obsessed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 11:58:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 11:41:55 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 11:18:31 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 10:49:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:52:38 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2021, 09:39:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
What is it with SF robots. Grown men and women tweeting the same tweet in their 1000s to confirm that michelle was good on late late show. It's so cringy and embarrassing it make you take Redner for them.

Aw would you ever give it a f***** rest man, it's so tiresome reading the same crap from you on this thread time after time. You clearly have some serious fixation with SF that is verging on unhealthy. The lack of self awareness to mention robots when all it takes is the mention of SF to trigger you is astounding.

Oh another mental health expert that has time in his busy psychiatric consultancy schedule to post advice free of charge on GAA board. Lol lol lol. GIMP!!

Naw just someone scundered reading the same dung from you over and over again.

Don't read it then. Skip and move on. That's what I do with posters that annoy me . Imagine how hard it is to avoid the repetitive drivel on social media from SF , devoid of any individuality. " I am a Dalek" . I have said before, get them into govt in Free State, lets see what they can do, if Stormont is anything to go by it will be a car crash

You are complaining about repetitive drivel on social media from other people in response to a comment about your repetitive drivel on this thread.

I am pointing out to you that it is clear you are obsessed and that you are completely unaware of this, I am trying to do you a favour chief.

Rather than assuming that I am a SF bot why don't you take a deep breath, go back and read your last 100 posts on this thread from the perspective that someone else wrote them and then tell me what is the point of saying 'SF are shit' ten times a day on this thread using a different form of words. It is not rational behaviour.

Trying to do me a favour? Don't talk shite sur, you are saying im mad you p%*ck. If thats doing me a favour id love to see what you say when you are trying the opposite.
Its ok for others to have a 100 posts on the other side of the debate is it though? Grow a brain-cell when you get a chance.

There's not much of a debate with you. There is no balance.

It's just a constant one sided smear campaign on one political party. You are obsessed.

Lolololololololololol.

OMFG

Feck SF and beat it up yous!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 26, 2021, 12:10:04 PM
Lol, these posts complimenting MON seemed to triggered poor auld Fear a site.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on April 26, 2021, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 25, 2021, 11:58:57 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
"pbat" was going well with a very sensible post but let's himself down with the "FFG" botism :-\

Why do some of the northern posters keep claiming FF/FG don't want/are afraid/against a border poll? It has no basis in reality and makes no sense.

Outside of SF none of the political parties in the south ever bring up or have released their policies on a united Ireland as the electorate in the south don't see this as even remotely relevant and it won't be happening anytime soon.

Until SF publish their policy (as the only political party who are calling for for a poll) to force FG/FF to take a position no one knows what the rest of the political parties in the south will do

Are you serious?
I have no party political alignment, but I've seen you
roundly criticise SF at every juncture, yet you're waiting for them to lead the two parties who have shared power between them since the foundation of the state .
I think it's sad (and a major barrier to progress) when those from the 26 counties who are proud of their republic, have no interest or empathy for fellow republicans up North whose ancestors helped the formation of that republic, but were left to paddle their own canoe in a sectarian anti-Irish state.
Maybe  it's a case of Mé Féiners against Sinn Féiners?

I'm simply pointing out in the south a united Ireland is not a political issue or something the vast majority care about. That's not because of some crazy FF/FG conspiracy or agenda, but because for most of the people a united Ireland is something they'd like in theory. Issues like the economy, health service, housing etc are way way more important to them than some idealogical point. You consider it sad, but that's the way it is.

What exactly are people like me in the south doing to put a barrier to a united Ireland? Surely it's up to the people in NI to decide that for themselves or force the issue?

Thanks for the clarity D7 and Tbf , owning the "Mé Féin" attitude, I find it sad but respect it . I'll explain why that's a barrier to progress. Republicans in the South have lived in their republic since 1921, their republican allies north of the border have endured a sectarian based state in that time. More recently we have been "ruled" by one of the most regressive far-right parties in Europe. The contribution of many in the south ( usually for party political reasons ) is to target SF and espouse an attitude of "you're all the same up there, sort it out amongst yourselves", therefore effectively helping to cement DUP dominance . This attitude is represented by the lack of rapport , disdain , and hypocritical judgement displayed by Ryan Tubridy towards , a very impressive and fair MON on Friday night past. Rather than "pinching your nose" and looking down on Northern republicans, try to appreciate where we come from...walk a mile in the shoes of your fellow countrymen. Even a partitionist can envisage how much more effective we could be as an island in the absence of conflict and a culture of respect and rapport for all. Many of us in the North have great friends who are unionist and respect them. We're not a cantankerous rabble, we're a resilient people ( on both sides) and could contribute enormously to a new Ireland. People like me have a strong affinity with ROI, and yet we are treated as pariahs by many in the South , and that D7 is a barrier to progress. Hopefully you can learn from most ROI posters on this board in appreciating where we are coming from.
The majority of people in the south would vote tomorrow for a UI and that's unconditional.
D7 is talking through his hole when purporting to speak on behalf of the 'free people'.
I never said anyone in the republic wouldn't vote for it. Clearly you didn't bother reading what I wrote. If it comes to a border poll I expect it to pass comfortably however that's irrelevant if it fails in the North. That's the important and relevant poll
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 02:35:24 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 26, 2021, 12:10:04 PM
Lol, these posts complimenting MON seemed to triggered poor auld Fear a site.  ;D

Boom boom boom everyone say Whoa-oh, whoa-oh! ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 26, 2021, 03:16:24 PM
Thought I had strayed to the Newsletter site.....

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-td-to-commemorate-evil-and-sectarian-killer-who-tried-to-murder-arlene-fosters-father-in-terrorist-gun-attack-40356347.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on April 26, 2021, 03:42:07 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 26, 2021, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 25, 2021, 11:58:57 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 25, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 25, 2021, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
"pbat" was going well with a very sensible post but let's himself down with the "FFG" botism :-\

Why do some of the northern posters keep claiming FF/FG don't want/are afraid/against a border poll? It has no basis in reality and makes no sense.

Outside of SF none of the political parties in the south ever bring up or have released their policies on a united Ireland as the electorate in the south don't see this as even remotely relevant and it won't be happening anytime soon.

Until SF publish their policy (as the only political party who are calling for for a poll) to force FG/FF to take a position no one knows what the rest of the political parties in the south will do

Are you serious?
I have no party political alignment, but I've seen you
roundly criticise SF at every juncture, yet you're waiting for them to lead the two parties who have shared power between them since the foundation of the state .
I think it's sad (and a major barrier to progress) when those from the 26 counties who are proud of their republic, have no interest or empathy for fellow republicans up North whose ancestors helped the formation of that republic, but were left to paddle their own canoe in a sectarian anti-Irish state.
Maybe  it's a case of Mé Féiners against Sinn Féiners?

I'm simply pointing out in the south a united Ireland is not a political issue or something the vast majority care about. That's not because of some crazy FF/FG conspiracy or agenda, but because for most of the people a united Ireland is something they'd like in theory. Issues like the economy, health service, housing etc are way way more important to them than some idealogical point. You consider it sad, but that's the way it is.

What exactly are people like me in the south doing to put a barrier to a united Ireland? Surely it's up to the people in NI to decide that for themselves or force the issue?

Thanks for the clarity D7 and Tbf , owning the "Mé Féin" attitude, I find it sad but respect it . I'll explain why that's a barrier to progress. Republicans in the South have lived in their republic since 1921, their republican allies north of the border have endured a sectarian based state in that time. More recently we have been "ruled" by one of the most regressive far-right parties in Europe. The contribution of many in the south ( usually for party political reasons ) is to target SF and espouse an attitude of "you're all the same up there, sort it out amongst yourselves", therefore effectively helping to cement DUP dominance . This attitude is represented by the lack of rapport , disdain , and hypocritical judgement displayed by Ryan Tubridy towards , a very impressive and fair MON on Friday night past. Rather than "pinching your nose" and looking down on Northern republicans, try to appreciate where we come from...walk a mile in the shoes of your fellow countrymen. Even a partitionist can envisage how much more effective we could be as an island in the absence of conflict and a culture of respect and rapport for all. Many of us in the North have great friends who are unionist and respect them. We're not a cantankerous rabble, we're a resilient people ( on both sides) and could contribute enormously to a new Ireland. People like me have a strong affinity with ROI, and yet we are treated as pariahs by many in the South , and that D7 is a barrier to progress. Hopefully you can learn from most ROI posters on this board in appreciating where we are coming from.
The majority of people in the south would vote tomorrow for a UI and that's unconditional.
D7 is talking through his hole when purporting to speak on behalf of the 'free people'.
I never said anyone in the republic wouldn't vote for it. Clearly you didn't bother reading what I wrote. If it comes to a border poll I expect it to pass comfortably however that's irrelevant if it fails in the North. That's the important and relevant poll
Fair point
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 26, 2021, 04:06:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 26, 2021, 03:16:24 PM
Thought I had strayed to the Newsletter site.....

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-td-to-commemorate-evil-and-sectarian-killer-who-tried-to-murder-arlene-fosters-father-in-terrorist-gun-attack-40356347.html

Or Sinn Fein Commerate Irishman executed in cold blood by British Army, if you actually read the shite that is in that article instead of just reading the Indo headline.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on April 26, 2021, 04:54:30 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 26, 2021, 04:06:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 26, 2021, 03:16:24 PM
Thought I had strayed to the Newsletter site.....

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-td-to-commemorate-evil-and-sectarian-killer-who-tried-to-murder-arlene-fosters-father-in-terrorist-gun-attack-40356347.html

Or Sinn Fein Commerate Irishman executed in cold blood by British Army, if you actually read the shite that is in that article instead of just reading the Indo headline.
Surely the old 'live by the sword, die by the sword' adage would apply when your are shot dead on "active service"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 26, 2021, 08:53:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 26, 2021, 04:54:30 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 26, 2021, 04:06:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 26, 2021, 03:16:24 PM
Thought I had strayed to the Newsletter site.....

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-td-to-commemorate-evil-and-sectarian-killer-who-tried-to-murder-arlene-fosters-father-in-terrorist-gun-attack-40356347.html

Or Sinn Fein Commerate Irishman executed in cold blood by British Army, if you actually read the shite that is in that article instead of just reading the Indo headline.
Surely the old 'live by the sword, die by the sword' adage would apply when your are shot dead on "active service"?

Declared unlawfully killed by the brits themselves. Personally I have no qualms with an ira man getting shot on active duty, comes with the territory but I was simply pointing out to "vote turf no 1" man there that he should read the indo with a seriously health warning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on April 27, 2021, 09:40:06 AM
They fucked up badly in Derry last time out surprised it took them so long to change things up there to be honest!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40275416.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 27, 2021, 09:40:06 AM
They fucked up badly in Derry last time out surprised it took them so long to change things up there to be honest!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40275416.html

Fear will be happy now.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on April 27, 2021, 10:20:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 27, 2021, 09:40:06 AM
They fucked up badly in Derry last time out surprised it took them so long to change things up there to be honest!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40275416.html

Fear will be happy now.  ;D

He'll maybe return to supporting his first love now with these changes  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 27, 2021, 09:40:06 AM
They fucked up badly in Derry last time out surprised it took them so long to change things up there to be honest!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40275416.html

Fear will be happy now.  ;D

And there we go lads and ladies. To those uninformed and brainwashed people  on here that accused me of being on a 1 year unfounded rant. Well BEAT IT UP YOUS. FECK SF.

Get rid of the paedos, thugs, crooks, landlords, slabbers and coke heads..

Onwards and upwards to a UI without these people at the helm.

AONTÚ ABÚ
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 10:40:53 AM
Just looking back through your last few posts. You genuinely sound like you're drunk.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 10:27:51 AM
Well BEAT IT UP YOUS. FECK SF.

AONTÚ ABÚ

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 11:58:22 AM
Lolololololololololol.

OMFG

Feck SF and beat it up yous!

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 11:18:31 AM
Trying to do me a favour? Don't talk shite sur, you are saying im mad you p%*ck.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:45:13 AM
Lol lol lol. GIMP!!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 27, 2021, 09:40:06 AM
They fucked up badly in Derry last time out surprised it took them so long to change things up there to be honest!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40275416.html

Fear will be happy now.  ;D

And there we go lads and ladies. To those uninformed and brainwashed people  on here that accused me of being on a 1 year unfounded rant. Well BEAT IT UP YOUS. FECK SF.

Get rid of the paedos, thugs, crooks, landlords, slabbers and coke heads..

Onwards and upwards to a UI without these people at the helm.

AONTÚ ABÚ
Where's the moderators? Surely this lad needs a wee break, he's either on the drink or trolling or both.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:25:31 AM
That's an interesting read. Fear it always struck me you were a reasonable sort unless SF were involved - maybe now there's an explanation lol.

Does this mean you will be voting for them in the future lol.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 27, 2021, 11:31:22 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Not the first time this boy has been before the courts. Already behind bars it would appear for prior torture charges.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 27, 2021, 11:32:56 AM
Got a chance to watch MON on the LL yesterday. I would not be a fan of her or her leadership, but I was impressed at her performance. I am disposed not to like Turbidy, whilst he is not a great interviewer he was not as bad as some suggested. In relation to some comments regarding SF and their economic policies, I have said before SF in opposition will not be the SF of government. Whilst they may be relatively inexperienced I'd guess they could be no worse than FF/FG and a lot better than the Tories in Britain. In dealings with SF up North I've found them very receptive to the needs of business and keen to help.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 27, 2021, 12:16:12 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40275416.html

The entire leadership of Derry Sinn Féin has been asked to stand aside, the Irish Examiner can reveal.

Multiple sources within the party North and South have confirmed that a number of individuals in the Derry Comhairle Ceantair were stood aside last week after a long investigation into the local group regarding election performance and governance.

The investigation focused heavily on elections after two disastrous days at the polls. In the most recent local elections for Derry and Strabane council, the party lost five seats and its position as the largest party. In the UK general election, then-MP Elisha McCallion lost the Foyle seat to the SDLP's Colum Eastwood by more than 17,000 votes.

Ms McCallion, who was later appointed to the Seanad, then stood down after it emerged she had received £10,000 in a Stormont Covid-19 grant for which she was ineligible.

Her resignation was seen at the time as "the final nail in the coffin" for the party's hopes in Derry and an in-depth investigation was launched.

'Implementation plan'

It is understood "the leadership" of Sinn Féin, which included MLA Gerry Kelly, spoke to the group on Friday about an "implementation plan" and asked the leadership of the Derry group to step aside, according to one elected representative.

Some of those asked to stand down are family members of Sinn Féin elected officials in Stormont. It is understood that all were requested to keep the decision out of the public eye.

A senior source in the party said that Derry, once a former heartland for Sinn Féin, would need "a generation" to improve.

"This has been coming a long time. There's a clique that has run the place into the ground effectively," they said.

"There are people on the leadership who aren't responsible, and that's unfair if they've been forced to stand aside, but it needed a clear-out in order to bring about the change that's needed to build up confidence and trust locally, and it'll take a considerable amount of time.

"There was a core group making decisions about controlling power as opposed to progressive politics.

If those governance issues aren't addressed, people don't hang around.

"Head office is sending an important signal, they're taking it seriously, but what replaces it now? There's very little confidence in the party in the town (Derry). I've never heard it as bad, it ranges from questioning decisions to complete hostility, some people are hated and it's a sad reflection on everyone in the party."

A Sinn Féin elected official told the Irish Examiner: "After the last election results, council and general, we need an election plan to get things right with the (Stormont) Assembly elections coming up possibly May next year. We knew Elisha would lose the seat but we didn't expect to take such a thrashing."

A Sinn Féin spokesperson said: "Sinn Féin established a review group in the Foyle constituency in the context of next year's Assembly election. Derry Sinn Féin has accepted a recommendation from that review to set up an electoral strategy group to oversee preparation for those elections."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 12:42:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:25:31 AM
That's an interesting read. Fear it always struck me you were a reasonable sort unless SF were involved - maybe now there's an explanation lol.

Does this mean you will be voting for them in the future lol.

Im entirely reasonable, but these thugs drive me mad. I don't think I will ever vote them again, they cant double back on not giving conscience vote to members during referendum. Also I voted them before I started working in their network, once I seen inside well no sane man would vote them. Slowly but surely everyone will start coming to their senses. Stealing out of our pockets
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 12:45:08 PM
https://www.thejournal.ie/jonathan-dowdall-resigned-1687878-Sep2014/

This is from 2014, the comments section are very interesting below.

The usual Concannonbots accusing SF of bullying him out of the party. Wonder what their take on this would be now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previous political party affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on April 27, 2021, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Was he a party member at the time? Even if he was what relevance is it to the story?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 01:01:16 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 27, 2021, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Was he a party member at the time? Even if he was what relevance is it to the story?

Article from 2014 where he resigned his seat.

Oddly enough the comments section below is full of people criticising SF for bullying him.

https://www.thejournal.ie/jonathan-dowdall-resigned-1687878-Sep2014/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.

Except it's not SF. He fell out with SF and left the party some years ago.

Are SF responsible for the activities of former members, or are they not?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 01:07:27 PM
FF certainly can't take the moral highground on this.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ex-fianna-f%C3%A1il-councillor-jailed-for-soliciting-to-murder-1.2184758
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 01:17:52 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 10:40:53 AM
Just looking back through your last few posts. You genuinely sound like you're drunk.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 10:27:51 AM
Well BEAT IT UP YOUS. FECK SF.

AONTÚ ABÚ

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 11:58:22 AM
Lolololololololololol.

OMFG

Feck SF and beat it up yous!

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 11:18:31 AM
Trying to do me a favour? Don't talk shite sur, you are saying im mad you p%*ck.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 26, 2021, 09:45:13 AM
Lol lol lol. GIMP!!

Taking the clean piss out of yous boys maybe
Oh ive an idea. Gag me.

Animal Farm was some book when you think about it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.

Except it's not SF. He fell out with SF and left the party some years ago.

Are SF responsible for the activities of former members, or are they not?

If he was previously a FF or FG member previously I would expect that to be reported.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 01:25:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.

Except it's not SF. He fell out with SF and left the party some years ago.

Are SF responsible for the activities of former members, or are they not?

If he was previously a FF or FG member previously I would expect that to be reported.

Why? Are parties responsible for the activities of former members?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 03:03:16 PM
It's certainly a major embarrassment for SF to have a former representative up on charges like this but it's certainly not an issue unique to SF.

Most recently there was a former FG candidate charged with committing fraud up to 400k by using homeless people's identities to set up bogus bank accounts and draw loans which they never repaid. There's a FG senator currently up on an assault charge which resulted in a person being hospitalised, another former TD glassed a man in a bar in Monaghan etc etc

People need to bring balance if they want to have their views taken as credible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:22:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

But according to himself, he was weeded out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 27, 2021, 03:38:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.
Some times people are best ignored.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 27, 2021, 03:39:27 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/i-quit-over-sinn-fein-bullying-former-councillor-31339952.html

The indo sympathy article to same man who was bullied out of SF. How thick are some of ye to be paying any heed to this rag.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 27, 2021, 03:46:50 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.

Confront the issue that in the future he might murder someone, how do you do that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.

Remove a sitting councillor for what? Rumours? Not much of a grounds for dismissal that. Wouldn't that have been another form of bullying? Certainly the likes of you would no doubt have been at great pains to insist as much.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:00:53 PM
He is quoted as saying it was Bullying that forced him out - not me or the Indo or the man on the street. He said it himself. Not that he'd get any sympathy as bullying was the least he deserved. And something that was on the lighter end of the scale as to what he dished out.

Not sure what point you been trying to make? Saying SF acted and forced him out but then saying that people happy to accuse SF of bullying. Are they not similar in this case?

He was a wrong one, plenty of parties attract wrong ones. Some are known and others develop that way but I don't think his was a secret prior to running. Dublin Inner city a small place and lot is known about who is who.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.

Remove a sitting councillor for what? Rumours? Not much of a grounds for dismissal that. Wouldn't that have been another form of bullying? Certainly the likes of you would no doubt have been at great pains to insist as much.

Ask Carol Nolan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:20:41 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:00:53 PM
He is quoted as saying it was Bullying that forced him out - not me or the Indo or the man on the street. He said it himself. Not that he'd get any sympathy as bullying was the least he deserved. And something that was on the lighter end of the scale as to what he dished out.

Not sure what point you been trying to make? Saying SF acted and forced him out but then saying that people happy to accuse SF of bullying. Are they not similar in this case?

He was a wrong one, plenty of parties attract wrong ones. Some are known and others develop that way but I don't think his was a secret prior to running. Dublin Inner city a small place and lot is known about who is who.

I know he said he was bullied out. Was kinda my point. It was you that claimed he was not forced out. If bullying someone out of position isnt forcing them out, I don't know what is.

That's SF critics for you:
2015: "Sinister SF forcing the poor man out"
2021: "Why didn't SF force him out? Sinister"

And have you any evidence that he was known to be a criminal before his selection as a candidate? If it was so well known, surely there will be ample tweets criticisicing his selection for instance? Something. Anything that shows you aren't just desperately clutching at straws trying to make his former SF membership somehow relevant to todays news?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:24:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.

Remove a sitting councillor for what? Rumours? Not much of a grounds for dismissal that. Wouldn't that have been another form of bullying? Certainly the likes of you would no doubt have been at great pains to insist as much.

Ask Carol Nolan.

Why? Was she removed from her position by the party over rumours around her private life? Here was me thinking she left the party over her stance on abortion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:20:41 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:00:53 PM
He is quoted as saying it was Bullying that forced him out - not me or the Indo or the man on the street. He said it himself. Not that he'd get any sympathy as bullying was the least he deserved. And something that was on the lighter end of the scale as to what he dished out.

Not sure what point you been trying to make? Saying SF acted and forced him out but then saying that people happy to accuse SF of bullying. Are they not similar in this case?

He was a wrong one, plenty of parties attract wrong ones. Some are known and others develop that way but I don't think his was a secret prior to running. Dublin Inner city a small place and lot is known about who is who.

I know he said he was bullied out. Was kinda my point. It was you that claimed he was not forced out. If bullying someone out of position isnt forcing them out, I don't know what is.

That's SF critics for you:
2015: "Sinister SF forcing the poor man out"
2021: "Why didn't SF force him out? Sinister"

And have you any evidence that he was known to be a criminal before his selection as a candidate? If it was so well known, surely there will be ample tweets criticisicing his selection for instance? Something. Anything that shows you aren't just desperately clutching at straws trying to make his former SF membership somehow relevant to todays news?

If you need to get rid of someone do you not have a procedure or disciplinary process to enforce that requires them to leave or they are removed. Or do you start a bullying campaign that forces a person out, that is totally off the books as such? You leading with second option as been ok?

As for the second part - are you really that green that you don't know who these people are locally and what they involved in? Jesus wept!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
If you need to get rid of someone do you not have a procedure or disciplinary process to enforce that requires them to leave or they are removed. Or do you start a bullying campaign that forces a person out, that is totally off the books as such? You leading with second option as been ok?
I'm not making any comment on how he left the party. I'm merely shining a light on the hypocrisy of those who sympathised with him being bullied out in 2015 and who today are demanding to know why he wasn't forced out sooner. And of course there should be procedures for removing someone, but I find it shocking to believe you support the idea that it should be within acceptable procedures for someone to be forced out of office for nothing more than rumours.

Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
As for the second part - are you really that green that you don't know who these people are locally and what they involved in? Jesus wept!
So well known was his involvement in crime that nobody, yourself included, ever made reference to it until it hit the news. Funny that. Convenient to insist today that you knew all along though, eh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:55:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
If you need to get rid of someone do you not have a procedure or disciplinary process to enforce that requires them to leave or they are removed. Or do you start a bullying campaign that forces a person out, that is totally off the books as such? You leading with second option as been ok?
I'm not making any comment on how he left the party. I'm merely shining a light on the hypocrisy of those who sympathised with him being bullied out in 2015 and who today are demanding to know why he wasn't forced out sooner. And of course there should be procedures for removing someone, but I find it shocking to believe you support the idea that it should be within acceptable procedures for someone to be forced out of office for nothing more than rumours.

Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
As for the second part - are you really that green that you don't know who these people are locally and what they involved in? Jesus wept!
So well known was his involvement in crime that nobody, yourself included, ever made reference to it until it hit the news. Funny that. Convenient to insist today that you knew all along though, eh?

That is some take on what I've said. Impossible to say anything about SF without words been twisted and turned.

How was I to know or comment on him back in early part of this decade, wasn't in my local council or that. We can comment on events that happened in past that we weren't aware off. The point been that those responsible in that area should be aware off and take action prior to rather than after the event and the have to remove said person.

Enjoy the rest of your day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 05:12:58 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:55:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
If you need to get rid of someone do you not have a procedure or disciplinary process to enforce that requires them to leave or they are removed. Or do you start a bullying campaign that forces a person out, that is totally off the books as such? You leading with second option as been ok?
I'm not making any comment on how he left the party. I'm merely shining a light on the hypocrisy of those who sympathised with him being bullied out in 2015 and who today are demanding to know why he wasn't forced out sooner. And of course there should be procedures for removing someone, but I find it shocking to believe you support the idea that it should be within acceptable procedures for someone to be forced out of office for nothing more than rumours.

Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
As for the second part - are you really that green that you don't know who these people are locally and what they involved in? Jesus wept!
So well known was his involvement in crime that nobody, yourself included, ever made reference to it until it hit the news. Funny that. Convenient to insist today that you knew all along though, eh?

That is some take on what I've said. Impossible to say anything about SF without words been twisted and turned.

How was I to know or comment on him back in early part of this decade, wasn't in my local council or that. We can comment on events that happened in past that we weren't aware off. The point been that those responsible in that area should be aware off and take action prior to rather than after the event and the have to remove said person.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

Not twisting your words in the slightest. You have argued that he was known to be a criminal prior to running for SF.

Quote
"I don't think his was a secret prior to running. Dublin Inner city a small place and lot is known about who is who"

Bit odd to make that claim while also stating:
Quote
How was I to know or comment on him back in early part of this decade, wasn't in my local council or that

You've yourself tied in a knot in your sheer desperation to make this a SF story.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:24:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.

Remove a sitting councillor for what? Rumours? Not much of a grounds for dismissal that. Wouldn't that have been another form of bullying? Certainly the likes of you would no doubt have been at great pains to insist as much.

Ask Carol Nolan.

Why? Was she removed from her position by the party over rumours around her private life? Here was me thinking she left the party over her stance on abortion.

She openly and very publicly talked about how she was bullied . Keep up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 06:00:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:24:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.

Remove a sitting councillor for what? Rumours? Not much of a grounds for dismissal that. Wouldn't that have been another form of bullying? Certainly the likes of you would no doubt have been at great pains to insist as much.

Ask Carol Nolan.

Why? Was she removed from her position by the party over rumours around her private life? Here was me thinking she left the party over her stance on abortion.

She openly and very publicly talked about how she was bullied . Keep up

She was accused of doing the bullying. Of a constituency worker in her office. Keep up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 06:00:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:24:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.

Remove a sitting councillor for what? Rumours? Not much of a grounds for dismissal that. Wouldn't that have been another form of bullying? Certainly the likes of you would no doubt have been at great pains to insist as much.

Ask Carol Nolan.

Why? Was she removed from her position by the party over rumours around her private life? Here was me thinking she left the party over her stance on abortion.

She openly and very publicly talked about how she was bullied . Keep up

She was accused of doing the bullying. Of a constituency worker in her office. Keep up.

So what you are actually saying is that when carol was a member of Sinn Féin she is accused of bullying someone and then some time later we know she also claims ( in lind with countless cases) to have been bullied. somebody bullied somewhere, and guess what it all happened within Offaly sinn fein .

Keep talking it's getting better all the time
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 06:36:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 06:00:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:24:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.

Remove a sitting councillor for what? Rumours? Not much of a grounds for dismissal that. Wouldn't that have been another form of bullying? Certainly the likes of you would no doubt have been at great pains to insist as much.

Ask Carol Nolan.

Why? Was she removed from her position by the party over rumours around her private life? Here was me thinking she left the party over her stance on abortion.

She openly and very publicly talked about how she was bullied . Keep up

She was accused of doing the bullying. Of a constituency worker in her office. Keep up.

So what you are actually saying is that when carol was a member of Sinn Féin she is accused of bullying someone and then some time later we know she also claims ( in lind with countless cases) to have been bullied. somebody bullied somewhere, and guess what it all happened within Offaly sinn fein .

Keep talking it's getting better all the time

What I'm saying is that:

1. You incorrectly claimed she was bullied.

2. That the fact that you are shoehorning Carol Nolan into the discussion shows just how much you are struggling to make todays story about SF. It really is laughable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on April 27, 2021, 06:39:23 PM
I feel like Fear Bun Na Sceilpe is bullying me. Now I've written it and claimed it we can all agree its fact.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Boycey on April 27, 2021, 07:00:52 PM
There should be bans handed out for the overuse of the quote function on this thread....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 07:13:38 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 06:36:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 06:00:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 04:24:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 27, 2021, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 03:08:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 27, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2021, 11:10:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0427/1212323-david-byrne-murder/)

Welcome back Angelo. I assume you're drafting your considered response to this?
Macker, are you on holidays?
Where is everyone?

What has the story actually got to do with SF?

Reminds me of the two recently convicted fraudsters in Cork. Former FG councillors, but not one news outlet (as far as I can see) referenced their past political party affiliation in their headlines on the case. So far, seemingly every news headline that I've seen on today's story has managed to include the "former SF councillor" bit into their headline. Funny that.

Big jump from fraud to murder.

And? The point is in the relevence of the individual's previois politicalparty affiliations.

Hard to see you as being anything more than a WUM in your reaction to this story. Unless you are actually trying to argue that SF are/should be responsible for the actions of all former members.

He was a party member. He's up on a Murder charge. It's a very serious crime. It's all factual. I can see as a SF supporter you don't like the facts but here we are.

Key word being "was". Are you suggesting SF should be responsible for the activities of former members?

What if he is a former member of his local library, should that not be referenced in the headlines too?

The local Library is a not a political party looking to be in government. This is the level of scrutiny that political parties are quite rightly subject to. You are just upset it is SF. You need to get over that.
Unless Mary Lou gave the order then it's irrelevant ffs.

You are missing the point, history shows they have no capability of weeding out bad apples early on

Seems this guy had lots of rumours in his involvement in criminal activities at the time and prior to him resigning for the party. Well known in local circles but he wasn't forced out the door or asked to resign, rather was subject to rumour and took it upon himself to resign as part of his defence into those rumours.

Not much vetting going on.

Funnily enough, the circumstances surrounding his departure from SF make it seem like he was in fact forced out. In fact, at the time, SF critics (people like you) were most outraged for his plight and were accusing SF of "bullying him" out.

Forced out? They not the backbone to remove him? They save face by forcing him out and not have to confront the issue head on.

Remove a sitting councillor for what? Rumours? Not much of a grounds for dismissal that. Wouldn't that have been another form of bullying? Certainly the likes of you would no doubt have been at great pains to insist as much.

Ask Carol Nolan.

Why? Was she removed from her position by the party over rumours around her private life? Here was me thinking she left the party over her stance on abortion.

She openly and very publicly talked about how she was bullied . Keep up

She was accused of doing the bullying. Of a constituency worker in her office. Keep up.

So what you are actually saying is that when carol was a member of Sinn Féin she is accused of bullying someone and then some time later we know she also claims ( in lind with countless cases) to have been bullied. somebody bullied somewhere, and guess what it all happened within Offaly sinn fein .

Keep talking it's getting better all the time

What I'm saying is that:

1. You incorrectly claimed she was bullied.

2. That the fact that you are shoehorning Carol Nolan into the discussion shows just how much you are struggling to make todays story about SF. It really is laughable.

My da would batter your da and your das brothers .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2021, 07:49:51 PM
You're a strange one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
Lol. It's Derry humour when arguement going nowhere a chara
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 28, 2021, 06:54:13 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40277060.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on April 28, 2021, 07:02:56 PM
I think it would be no harm to get rid of Anderson, bit of a liability.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 28, 2021, 07:15:07 PM
It's nepotism run mad with Sinn Fein in Derry
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Yep and I was accused of being obsessed and mad. I've had the inside line on it from the start. I know the lot. The worst can't even be publicised. Rotten people
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2021, 08:01:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 28, 2021, 06:54:13 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40277060.html

No surprise.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 28, 2021, 09:02:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Yep and I was accused of being obsessed and mad. I've had the inside line on it from the start. I know the lot. The worst can't even be publicised. Rotten people
Sure say what you've to say big balls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2021, 09:57:04 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 28, 2021, 09:02:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Yep and I was accused of being obsessed and mad. I've had the inside line on it from the start. I know the lot. The worst can't even be publicised. Rotten people
Sure say what you've to say big balls.

Wee Andy the gnome. Ask your contacts up here. Sure I've been right about everything I've said bar maybe one thing . The rest is out there now. You'd probably tout on me to authorities in good Shinner style
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 28, 2021, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2021, 09:57:04 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 28, 2021, 09:02:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Yep and I was accused of being obsessed and mad. I've had the inside line on it from the start. I know the lot. The worst can't even be publicised. Rotten people
Sure say what you've to say big balls.

Wee Andy the gnome. Ask your contacts up here. Sure I've been right about everything I've said bar maybe one thing . The rest is out there now. You'd probably tout on me to authorities in good Shinner style
I haven't s clue what you're raving on about, does anyone else? Lay off the coke/booze or whatever you're on there's a good lad.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2021, 10:47:07 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 28, 2021, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2021, 09:57:04 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 28, 2021, 09:02:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Yep and I was accused of being obsessed and mad. I've had the inside line on it from the start. I know the lot. The worst can't even be publicised. Rotten people
Sure say what you've to say big balls.

Wee Andy the gnome. Ask your contacts up here. Sure I've been right about everything I've said bar maybe one thing . The rest is out there now. You'd probably tout on me to authorities in good Shinner style
I haven't s clue what you're raving on about, does anyone else? Lay off the coke/booze or whatever you're on there's a good lad.

Pathetic response.The kind of response that loses you 8k votes. Wee Andy and party paid few families off ,work it out why
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 29, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?

It is the right move and we all know it.

She's been a liability these last few years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 29, 2021, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 29, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?

It is the right move and we all know it.

She's been a liability these last few years.
Personally love Martina- unapologetic fenian, but can see why change is needed. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 29, 2021, 09:31:29 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 29, 2021, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 29, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?

It is the right move and we all know it.

She's been a liability these last few years.
Personally love Martina- unapologetic fenian, but can see why change is needed.

She was never going to help bring about a UI all the same, was she?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:32:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 29, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?

It is the right move and we all know it.

She's been a liability these last few years.

Bound to ruffle a few feathers in Derry all the same.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 29, 2021, 10:27:21 AM
Not hard for SF to see something needs to change, look at Donegal where they are in the ascendency and see Derry a few mile over the border and they are tanking.
Martina is what she is, but voters want delivery, not some unhinged yoke in an Irish jersey ranting and raving.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 29, 2021, 10:40:18 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 29, 2021, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 29, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?

It is the right move and we all know it.

She's been a liability these last few years.
Personally love Martina- unapologetic fenian, but can see why change is needed.

Gulpan you mean. Her nephew was dumped too. Jesus her husband was on astronomical wages as SPAD, absolutely no qualifications. Her niece elisha well.....
Im hearing the Twitter bully "Tweet" Lamberton gone, he's Karen Mullens partner and front face of bogside/ brandywell community voluntary carve up. Crook
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 29, 2021, 10:42:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:32:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 29, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?

It is the right move and we all know it.

She's been a liability these last few years.

Bound to ruffle a few feathers in Derry all the same.

People are happy.  She tried to shaft Peggy McCourts family too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 29, 2021, 10:44:27 AM
https://twitter.com/pmac79/status/1278842024020639744?s=19

There is a snapshot
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on April 29, 2021, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 29, 2021, 10:44:27 AM
https://twitter.com/pmac79/status/1278842024020639744?s=19

There is a snapshot

A snapshot of what exactly?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 01:59:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 29, 2021, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 29, 2021, 10:44:27 AM
https://twitter.com/pmac79/status/1278842024020639744?s=19

There is a snapshot

A snapshot of what exactly?

Some fella pretending not to know who Colum is and another fella posting articles about Elisha.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 29, 2021, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 01:59:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 29, 2021, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 29, 2021, 10:44:27 AM
https://twitter.com/pmac79/status/1278842024020639744?s=19

There is a snapshot

A snapshot of what exactly?

Some fella pretending not to know who Colum is and another fella posting articles about Elisha.

Naw ignore that shite, pasted it wrong, meant to post the schematic of Derry SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 30, 2021, 10:07:52 AM
Martina is fighting on, a cursory glance at her Twitter feed and she is fighting to hold on, pushing the work she did in Brussels. Would / Can SF deselect her at the next election?

Interestingly she talks about the work done outside the chamber, in the corridors but of course when the SDLP talk about doing that work Westminster they are castigated for it. SF just mouth that there vote doesn't count.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 30, 2021, 12:30:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 30, 2021, 10:07:52 AM
Martina is fighting on, a cursory glance at her Twitter feed and she is fighting to hold on, pushing the work she did in Brussels. Would / Can SF deselect her at the next election?

Interestingly she talks about the work done outside the chamber, in the corridors but of course when the SDLP talk about doing that work Westminster they are castigated for it. SF just mouth that there vote doesn't count.

She and her teenage fan club on twitter including "Tweet" Lamberton kept replying to every SDLP tweet with "Did Colum stop Brexit yet". I mean how embarrassing for them, im not joking these were men/women in their 40/50's.

Meanwhile she said she would stop it from Brussels and with binlids at Bridgend-bin lids at Bridgend was the most Derry SF could muster and of course a few childish tweets
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 30, 2021, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 30, 2021, 12:30:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 30, 2021, 10:07:52 AM
Martina is fighting on, a cursory glance at her Twitter feed and she is fighting to hold on, pushing the work she did in Brussels. Would / Can SF deselect her at the next election?

Interestingly she talks about the work done outside the chamber, in the corridors but of course when the SDLP talk about doing that work Westminster they are castigated for it. SF just mouth that there vote doesn't count.

She and her teenage fan club on twitter including "Tweet" Lamberton kept replying to every SDLP tweet with "Did Colum stop Brexit yet". I mean how embarrassing for them, im not joking these were men/women in their 40/50's.

Meanwhile she said she would stop it from Brussels and with binlids at Bridgend-bin lids at Bridgend was the most Derry SF could muster and of course a few childish tweets

Yes.

Because Colum is so mature himself on Twitter. Here's an example of this week's latest stunt.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/1/e1e85d5693660876325dd85e64fe2b150ef60be3.jpeg)

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 30, 2021, 12:39:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 30, 2021, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 30, 2021, 12:30:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 30, 2021, 10:07:52 AM
Martina is fighting on, a cursory glance at her Twitter feed and she is fighting to hold on, pushing the work she did in Brussels. Would / Can SF deselect her at the next election?

Interestingly she talks about the work done outside the chamber, in the corridors but of course when the SDLP talk about doing that work Westminster they are castigated for it. SF just mouth that there vote doesn't count.

She and her teenage fan club on twitter including "Tweet" Lamberton kept replying to every SDLP tweet with "Did Colum stop Brexit yet". I mean how embarrassing for them, im not joking these were men/women in their 40/50's.

Meanwhile she said she would stop it from Brussels and with binlids at Bridgend-bin lids at Bridgend was the most Derry SF could muster and of course a few childish tweets

Yes.

Because Colum is so mature himself on Twitter. Here's an example of this week's latest stunt.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/1/e1e85d5693660876325dd85e64fe2b150ef60be3.jpeg)

Couldnt give 2 monkies about Colum
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 30, 2021, 12:42:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 30, 2021, 12:39:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 30, 2021, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 30, 2021, 12:30:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 30, 2021, 10:07:52 AM
Martina is fighting on, a cursory glance at her Twitter feed and she is fighting to hold on, pushing the work she did in Brussels. Would / Can SF deselect her at the next election?

Interestingly she talks about the work done outside the chamber, in the corridors but of course when the SDLP talk about doing that work Westminster they are castigated for it. SF just mouth that there vote doesn't count.

She and her teenage fan club on twitter including "Tweet" Lamberton kept replying to every SDLP tweet with "Did Colum stop Brexit yet". I mean how embarrassing for them, im not joking these were men/women in their 40/50's.

Meanwhile she said she would stop it from Brussels and with binlids at Bridgend-bin lids at Bridgend was the most Derry SF could muster and of course a few childish tweets

Yes.

Because Colum is so mature himself on Twitter. Here's an example of this week's latest stunt.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/1/e1e85d5693660876325dd85e64fe2b150ef60be3.jpeg)

Couldnt give 2 monkies about Colum

So you're only interested in a bit of SF bashing and turn a blind eye to when it's a Stoop making a show of himself.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 30, 2021, 12:54:36 PM
Colum is a poor leader, and last time I checked this wasnt the SDLP thread, I think the last time I checked that thread boys were away off on a tangent talking about something completely unrelated
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on April 30, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 30, 2021, 12:54:36 PM
Colum is a poor leader, and last time I checked this wasnt the SDLP thread, I think the last time I checked that thread boys were away off on a tangent talking about something completely unrelated

I'm just pointing out that your outrage and hysteria seems to be more personal than any grievance with matters you complain about.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on April 30, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 30, 2021, 12:54:36 PM
Colum is a poor leader, and last time I checked this wasnt the SDLP thread, I think the last time I checked that thread boys were away off on a tangent talking about something completely unrelated

A bit like here then
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 04, 2021, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?
She is a turnoff to most middle of the road nationalists. All the Brits this and that stuff is a vote loser for SF. Derry has been a cartel for a while.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 04, 2021, 06:34:21 PM
Confirmed. Anderson and Mullan are gone in Derry.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on May 04, 2021, 06:48:33 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 04, 2021, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?
She is a turnoff to most middle of the road nationalists. All the Brits this and that stuff is a vote loser for SF. Derry has been a cartel for a while.

That's probably true but that decision will probably also upset some people too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 04, 2021, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 04, 2021, 06:48:33 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 04, 2021, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
That's a big move to ask Martina to step aside in Derry. Certainly something needed to happen there but is this not also likely to cost them some votes too?
She is a turnoff to most middle of the road nationalists. All the Brits this and that stuff is a vote loser for SF. Derry has been a cartel for a while.

That's probably true but that decision will probably also upset some people too.
Undoubtedly, but if Eastwood can beat SF by a landslide I'd say they have more to gain by letting her go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 04, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
Trying to work out female version of "The Chieftain " and they are going to call her that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on May 05, 2021, 09:28:39 AM
MA was too polarising for Derry, with the Dissidents firmly entrenched there, even with SF calling them out there was always going to be a swing to the middle. Especially with the historical support for the SDLP there I think people just get turned off by MA and it is easier for them to go in and vote for a 'non-offensive' candidate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on May 05, 2021, 02:04:20 PM
Bobby Sands 40 years dead today.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/8/4/846a8c5f4d02858d14bb2660af05d3b914cff9ae_2_500x500.jpeg)

In speaking of international politics, we cannot ignore what is happening in Northern Ireland. I feel it is my duty to refer to this problem. In my opinion, Irish patriots are writing one of the most heroic chapters in human history.

They have earned the respect and admiration of the world, and likewise they deserve its support. Ten of them have already died in the most moving gesture of sacrifice, selflessness and courage one could ever imagine.

Humanity should feel ashamed that this terrible crime is being committed before its very eyes. These young fighters do not ask for independence or make impossible demands to put an end to their strike.

They ask only for something as simple as the recognition of what they actually are: political prisoners...

The stubbornness, intransigence, cruelty and insensitivity of the British Government before the international community concerning the problem of the Irish patriots and their hunger strike until death remind us of Torquemada and the atrocities committed by the Inquisition during the apogee of the Middle Ages...

Let tyrants tremble before men who are capable of dying for their ideals, after 60 days on hunger strike!

It is high time for the world community to put an end to this repulsive atrocity through denunciation and pressure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Evil Genius on May 05, 2021, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 05, 2021, 02:04:20 PM
Bobby Sands 40 years dead today.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/8/4/846a8c5f4d02858d14bb2660af05d3b914cff9ae_2_500x500.jpeg)

"They ask only for something as simple as the recognition of what they actually are: political prisoners..."

Aye, well if you want to know all about political prisoners, the boul Fidel was yer man to go to!

During his nearly five decades of rule in Cuba, Fidel Castro built a repressive system that punished virtually all forms of dissent, a dark legacy that lives on even after his death.

During Castro's rule, thousands of Cubans were incarcerated in abysmal prisons, thousands more were harassed and intimidated, and entire generations were denied basic political freedoms. Cuba made improvements in health and education, though many of these gains were undermined by extended periods of economic hardship and by repressive policies.

"As other countries in the region turned away from authoritarian rule, only Fidel Castro's Cuba continued to repress virtually all civil and political rights," said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. "Castro's draconian rule and the harsh punishments he meted out to dissidents kept his repressive system rooted firmly in place for decades."

The repression was codified in law and enforced by security forces, groups of civilian sympathizers tied to the state, and a judiciary that lacked independence. Such abusive practices generated a pervasive climate of fear in Cuba, which hindered the exercise of fundamental rights, and pressured Cubans to show their allegiance to the state while discouraging criticism.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/11/26/cuba-fidel-castros-record-repression (https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/11/26/cuba-fidel-castros-record-repression)


... it can be conservatively and very broadly estimated that at least 500,000 people have suffered political imprisonment at one time or another [in Cuba] since January 1, 1959, including  those enduring short  detention. It's important to consider that, in six decades, the  Cuban population has almost doubled from around 6 million in 1959 to around 11 million today. Therefore, the political imprisonment of  tens of  thousands in the  sixties has  a much higher proportional repercussion, aside from having certain different characteristics (forced labor, physical abuse, severe malnutrition, etc., and organized responses by of prisoners such as "standing," recurring hunger strikes, etc.).
Comparatively, the number of Cuban political prisoners during the military dictatorship of Batista (1952-1958)  and  previous  governments  was many  times smaller.
https://cubaarchive.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/How-many-Cuban-political-prisoners.pdf (https://cubaarchive.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/How-many-Cuban-political-prisoners.pdf)

Even the good old Guardian had something to say:

Fidel Castro's dark legacy: abuses, draconian rule and 'ruthless suppression'

Castro hounded critics, scorned elections and ran a police state – facts which impressive statistics about literacy and life expectancy cannot erase
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/27/fidel-castro-dictator-legacy-abuses (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/27/fidel-castro-dictator-legacy-abuses)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on May 05, 2021, 08:28:05 PM
Castro is one of the greatest political figures of the past century.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2021, 08:46:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 05, 2021, 08:28:05 PM
Castro is one of the greatest political figures of the past decade.

He retired more than 10 years ago and has been dead for the last 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 05, 2021, 09:56:17 PM
 ;D ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2021, 10:12:07 PM
The gift that keeps giving.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:38:55 PM
Just watched some clips on MA, my god, how did she get the nod in the first place?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 05, 2021, 10:41:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:38:55 PM
Just watched some clips on MA, my god, how did she get the nod in the first place?

she had an explosive start.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:47:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2021, 10:41:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:38:55 PM
Just watched some clips on MA, my god, how did she get the nod in the first place?

she had an explosive start.

Sounds as if she's on the whiskey when talking
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 05, 2021, 11:11:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:47:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2021, 10:41:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:38:55 PM
Just watched some clips on MA, my god, how did she get the nod in the first place?

she had an explosive start.

Sounds as if she's on the whiskey when talking

Never overly paid attention to her before but her highlights reel on the news tonight she reminded on the erratic but hilarious aunt out of Derry Girls (hi)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 11:38:06 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 05, 2021, 11:11:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:47:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2021, 10:41:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:38:55 PM
Just watched some clips on MA, my god, how did she get the nod in the first place?

she had an explosive start.

Sounds as if she's on the whiskey when talking

Never overly paid attention to her before but her highlights reel on the news tonight she reminded on the erratic but hilarious aunt out of Derry Girls (hi)

Yes, I thought that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Gold on May 06, 2021, 04:16:23 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 05, 2021, 11:11:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:47:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2021, 10:41:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 10:38:55 PM
Just watched some clips on MA, my god, how did she get the nod in the first place?

she had an explosive start.

Sounds as if she's on the whiskey when talking

Never overly paid attention to her before but her highlights reel on the news tonight she reminded on the erratic but hilarious aunt out of Derry Girls (hi)

I literally said the same earlier!

Like a spoof comedy character
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on May 06, 2021, 09:07:26 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 06, 2021, 09:14:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.

Yes, she was a child of a different era, hopefully that era doesn't return and we can see the light at the end of the tunnel but I've said it here before she and her type of rhetoric won't win over the undecideds needed to swing a border poll.

Shinners need to get the likes of Doherty more involved in NI politics, normalising the debate so to speak.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 06, 2021, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.

SF vote reduced overall
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 01:01:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 06, 2021, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.

SF vote reduced overall

In Derry, as I mentioned.

Nationally, SF have been progressing dramatically, as I mentioned.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 06, 2021, 02:30:08 PM
Only in the 26 Cos between May 19 and Feb 20.
Dropoed 6 or 7 % in the North between 2017 and 2019.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on May 06, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2021, 02:30:08 PM
Only in the 26 Cos between May 19 and Feb 20.
Dropoed 6 or 7 % in the North between 2017 and 2019.
At present SF and FG are running neck and neck in the polls down south.
In the Irish Times poll last February, FG were on 30% and SF were on 28%. 
There's been little between them of late.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 06, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 01:01:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 06, 2021, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.

SF vote reduced overall

In Derry, as I mentioned.

Nationally, SF have been progressing dramatically, as I mentioned.

It dropped overall percentage share in the north. In the free state they were badly stagnating and then they became the party of protest which yes led to an unexpected revival, so much so some of their candidates were off on hols during the counts.

I've said many times, get them in South of the border , it will be very interesting
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 06, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 06, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2021, 02:30:08 PM
Only in the 26 Cos between May 19 and Feb 20.
Dropoed 6 or 7 % in the North between 2017 and 2019.
At present SF and FG are running neck and neck in the polls down south.
In the Irish Times poll last February, FG were on 30% and SF were on 28%. 
There's been little between them of late.
True Lar.
We're not due to have any Elections till May 24 though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 06, 2021, 05:12:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.

She isn't committed to SF. She's committed to the struggle.
Lesson here for everyone. Once you are past your usefulness, SF will dump you, no matter who you are.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 06, 2021, 05:56:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 06, 2021, 05:12:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.

She isn't committed to SF. She's committed to the struggle.
Lesson here for everyone. Once you are past your usefulness, SF will dump you, no matter who you are.

She was primarily committed to the pound sterling
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 06:14:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2021, 02:30:08 PM
Only in the 26 Cos between May 19 and Feb 20.
Dropoed 6 or 7 % in the North between 2017 and 2019.

SF didnt grow significantly in the south until May 19? They went from 4 to 14 seats in the 2011 election. In 2016 they went from 14 to to 23. They now have 37. For the slow learners, the question was whether having Martina Anderson on board was holding SF back from becoming a force. In her time as an elected rep, SF have, as I've stated, progressed dramatically, north and south. Pointing to small dips in electoral fortune and overlooking the overall story of huge growth is some show of desperation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 06:16:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 06, 2021, 05:12:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.

She isn't committed to SF. She's committed to the struggle.
Lesson here for everyone. Once you are past your usefulness, SF will dump you, no matter who you are.

Political party in attempt to run candidates they think will boost their vote? Chilling stuff alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on May 06, 2021, 07:07:32 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 06:14:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2021, 02:30:08 PM
Only in the 26 Cos between May 19 and Feb 20.
Dropoed 6 or 7 % in the North between 2017 and 2019.

SF didnt grow significantly in the south until May 19? They went from 4 to 14 seats in the 2011 election. In 2016 they went from 14 to to 23. They now have 37. For the slow learners, the question was whether having Martina Anderson on board was holding SF back from becoming a force. In her time as an elected rep, SF have, as I've stated, progressed dramatically, north and south. Pointing to small dips in electoral fortune and overlooking the overall story of huge growth is some show of desperation.

I think it doesn't serve Sf well to think they have had "huge growth" without analysing it. The demographics in the North have been progressively favouring "nationalism" . However in the North the "nationalist " vote has not increased pro-rata. Sf gains have been mainly at the expense of SDLP and the rivalry between SF and SDLP has not served the "nationalist " population well.
Much as many have considerable difficulties with SF,  (and IMO they should look to show more  remorse for republican violence , and follow appropriate party structure and integrity guidelines ) , most parties in this island also have considerable baggage. SDLP , for whom I have much admiration on many issues, are nowhere near becoming the largest party. Are they brave enough therefore to put less focus on SF bashing , and facilitate SF in becoming the largest part in the assembly , relegating unionism from being the "largest party" for the first time ever . Or do they consider promoting a strong middle ground with Alliance( but that's unlikely to put Alliance in the position of the largest party ) . Hardline Unionism continues to be in power , and has presided over 100 years of failure( in most parameters) , surely it's time to move hardline unionism aside and explore new possibilities. We can't complain about the status quo if we don't tactically vote to get rid of it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on May 06, 2021, 09:19:49 PM
Well, well, well - Eoghan Harris has got the boot from the Sindo rag because of some twitter account he was involved in.
Im off to read what he was tweeting!

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1390400039089016838?s=19 (https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1390400039089016838?s=19)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on May 06, 2021, 10:50:45 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 06, 2021, 09:19:49 PM
Well, well, well - Eoghan Harris has got the boot from the Sindo rag because of some twitter account he was involved in.
Im off to read what he was tweeting!

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1390400039089016838?s=19 (https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1390400039089016838?s=19)

Imagine getting fired for masquerading as an auld wan called Babs sending anti-Sinn Fein tweets on Twitter after spending half your life getting paid to write anti-Sinn Fein diatribes on the Indo. Two sets of dunces.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Downtothewire on May 06, 2021, 11:00:24 PM
Quote from: weareros on May 06, 2021, 10:50:45 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 06, 2021, 09:19:49 PM
Well, well, well - Eoghan Harris has got the boot from the Sindo rag because of some twitter account he was involved in.
Im off to read what he was tweeting!

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1390400039089016838?s=19 (https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1390400039089016838?s=19)

Imagine getting fired for masquerading as an auld wan called Babs sending anti-Sinn Fein tweets on Twitter after spending half your life getting paid to write anti-Sinn Fein diatribes on the Indo. Two sets of dunces.
Stickie sacked from Blue Shirt paper, well I never!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 07, 2021, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 06, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 01:01:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 06, 2021, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.

SF vote reduced overall

In Derry, as I mentioned.

Nationally, SF have been progressing dramatically, as I mentioned.

It dropped overall percentage share in the north. In the free state they were badly stagnating and then they became the party of protest which yes led to an unexpected revival, so much so some of their candidates were off on hols during the counts.

I've said many times, get them in South of the border , it will be very interesting
There were specific reasons why it dropped, eg giving Claire Hanna a free run. The next assembly election will tell how it's going. But Anderson and her ilk are a turnoff not only in Derry, I'd say McCallion who is Anderson's niece was a large part of the reason why the inept Eastwood won by such a large margin. I'd say the vote for SF and the SDLP will be pretty stable at the next election. Unionism seems to be drifting towards Alliance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 07, 2021, 11:57:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 06, 2021, 05:56:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 06, 2021, 05:12:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 06, 2021, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 07:23:39 AM
Always thought for sf to really progress they needed rid of ones like her.
I assume you mean in Derry? Elsewhere, SF have done nothing but progress dramatically.

Martina Anderson may not have been the greatest political communicator but she spent 13 years in jail for her role in fighting for a wholly just cause and for that she has my respect. It's a mark of her character that she hasn't thrown the dummy out of the pram over how this was handled, accepted the reasons for it and remains committed to the party. Best wishes to her.

She isn't committed to SF. She's committed to the struggle.
Lesson here for everyone. Once you are past your usefulness, SF will dump you, no matter who you are.

She was primarily committed to the pound sterling
[/quote
Are you Eoghan Harris? All parties drop people who are past vote winning. At least try to be balanced.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on May 11, 2021, 11:14:51 AM
https://twitter.com/Caitlin_Burke7/status/1391801904724914179 (https://twitter.com/Caitlin_Burke7/status/1391801904724914179)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 11, 2021, 12:04:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 11, 2021, 11:14:51 AM
https://twitter.com/Caitlin_Burke7/status/1391801904724914179 (https://twitter.com/Caitlin_Burke7/status/1391801904724914179)
This is absolutely delusional. Martina Anderson walked out of jail and into jobs within SF that also allowed her a degree of privilege most of us won't get. Whilst she may well be hurt at being held accountable that is the nature of life in business and politics. No-one has the right to remain in post indefinitely and 17,000 voter migrating to the SDLP was the judgement of the electorate. I'd guess her SF pensions are secure as well and that's as it should be. I am not judging the rights or wrongs of the armed struggle but those were decisions she and her husband made. As a middle of the road nationalist I am put off by the types of ill judged remarks that she has made. As I said no one is untouchable and as the saying goes all political careers are destined to end in failure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on May 11, 2021, 12:20:15 PM
I see the family believe Martina was 'scarified' by SF ... if so, horrific treatment indeed and to be condemned by all  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on May 11, 2021, 12:23:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 11, 2021, 12:04:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 11, 2021, 11:14:51 AM
https://twitter.com/Caitlin_Burke7/status/1391801904724914179 (https://twitter.com/Caitlin_Burke7/status/1391801904724914179)
This is absolutely delusional. Martina Anderson walked out of jail and into jobs within SF that also allowed her a degree of privilege most of us won't get. Whilst she may well be hurt at being held accountable that is the nature of life in business and politics. No-one has the right to remain in post indefinitely and 17,000 voter migrating to the SDLP was the judgement of the electorate. I'd guess her SF pensions are secure as well and that's as it should be. I am not judging the rights or wrongs of the armed struggle but those were decisions she and her husband made. As a middle of the road nationalist I am put off by the types of ill judged remarks that she has made. As I said no one is untouchable and as the saying goes all political careers are destined to end in failure.

That would be my thinking too. Getting rid of someone like her will make middle of the road nationalists more likely to vote SF. To me it is a positive for SF and not a negative.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
The equivalent of a wife or girlfriend runs to the press when her fella was dropped from the squad.

It's politics, you're only around as long as you're useful.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 11, 2021, 01:14:45 PM
These are the type of gimps running around Derry pissing people off and bullying on social media(cant batter them up the back of Creggan shops anymore)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 11, 2021, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 11, 2021, 12:23:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 11, 2021, 12:04:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 11, 2021, 11:14:51 AM
https://twitter.com/Caitlin_Burke7/status/1391801904724914179 (https://twitter.com/Caitlin_Burke7/status/1391801904724914179)
This is absolutely delusional. Martina Anderson walked out of jail and into jobs within SF that also allowed her a degree of privilege most of us won't get. Whilst she may well be hurt at being held accountable that is the nature of life in business and politics. No-one has the right to remain in post indefinitely and 17,000 voter migrating to the SDLP was the judgement of the electorate. I'd guess her SF pensions are secure as well and that's as it should be. I am not judging the rights or wrongs of the armed struggle but those were decisions she and her husband made. As a middle of the road nationalist I am put off by the types of ill judged remarks that she has made. As I said no one is untouchable and as the saying goes all political careers are destined to end in failure.

That would be my thinking too. Getting rid of someone like her will make middle of the road nationalists more likely to vote SF. To me it is a positive for SF and not a negative.

It will prove to be a masterstroke getting rid of her. She's embarrassing, surprised it's took this long for someone to get her out of the road.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-17/watchdog-report-finds-no-police-bias-in-handling-of-bobby-storey-funeral
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-17/watchdog-report-finds-no-police-bias-in-handling-of-bobby-storey-funeral

The DUP, the SDLP and Stephen Nolan will want the European Court of Human Rights to look at this now until they get the outcome they want.

Cara Hunter will be keeping her head down, or should be..

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 09:38:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-17/watchdog-report-finds-no-police-bias-in-handling-of-bobby-storey-funeral

The DUP, the SDLP and Stephen Nolan will want the European Court of Human Rights to look at this now until they get the outcome they want.

Cara Hunter will be keeping her head down, or should be..

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html)

She'd get my vote...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 09:44:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 09:38:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-17/watchdog-report-finds-no-police-bias-in-handling-of-bobby-storey-funeral

The DUP, the SDLP and Stephen Nolan will want the European Court of Human Rights to look at this now until they get the outcome they want.

Cara Hunter will be keeping her head down, or should be..

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html)

She'd get my vote...

The blood is obviously flowing down the way in you..  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 18, 2021, 09:45:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 09:38:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-17/watchdog-report-finds-no-police-bias-in-handling-of-bobby-storey-funeral

The DUP, the SDLP and Stephen Nolan will want the European Court of Human Rights to look at this now until they get the outcome they want.

Cara Hunter will be keeping her head down, or should be..

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html)

She'd get my vote...

Plus 1.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: shantygael on May 18, 2021, 11:20:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 18, 2021, 09:45:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 09:38:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-17/watchdog-report-finds-no-police-bias-in-handling-of-bobby-storey-funeral

The DUP, the SDLP and Stephen Nolan will want the European Court of Human Rights to look at this now until they get the outcome they want.

Cara Hunter will be keeping her head down, or should be..

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html)

She'd get my vote...

Plus 1.
Plus2
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on May 18, 2021, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: shantygael on May 18, 2021, 11:20:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 18, 2021, 09:45:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 09:38:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-17/watchdog-report-finds-no-police-bias-in-handling-of-bobby-storey-funeral

The DUP, the SDLP and Stephen Nolan will want the European Court of Human Rights to look at this now until they get the outcome they want.

Cara Hunter will be keeping her head down, or should be..

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html)

She'd get my vote...

Plus 1.
Plus2
Plus 3
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 18, 2021, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: shantygael on May 18, 2021, 11:20:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 18, 2021, 09:45:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 09:38:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-17/watchdog-report-finds-no-police-bias-in-handling-of-bobby-storey-funeral

The DUP, the SDLP and Stephen Nolan will want the European Court of Human Rights to look at this now until they get the outcome they want.

Cara Hunter will be keeping her head down, or should be..

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html)

She'd get my vote...

Plus 1.
Plus2
Plus 3

(https://i0.wp.com/thegreatpageantcommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/NORTHRNIRELAND.jpeg?ssl=1)

There you go lads, you can cream yourselves now!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 18, 2021, 01:16:12 PM
Sweet Lord
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rudi on May 18, 2021, 01:24:07 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 18, 2021, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: shantygael on May 18, 2021, 11:20:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 18, 2021, 09:45:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 09:38:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-17/watchdog-report-finds-no-police-bias-in-handling-of-bobby-storey-funeral

The DUP, the SDLP and Stephen Nolan will want the European Court of Human Rights to look at this now until they get the outcome they want.

Cara Hunter will be keeping her head down, or should be..

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/18/news/sdlp-health-committee-member-apologises-after-breaching-covid-travel-rules-2325710/content.html)

She'd get my vote...

Plus 1.
Plus2
Plus 3

(https://i0.wp.com/thegreatpageantcommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/NORTHRNIRELAND.jpeg?ssl=1)

There you go lads, you can cream yourselves now!

I told her not to take any pictures.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 18, 2021, 01:26:11 PM
She could tighten them triceps up a wee bit
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dire Ear on May 18, 2021, 03:00:37 PM
Probably can't cook.......................
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 19, 2021, 12:32:47 AM
Ha, I did vote for her!!! 🤔
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 19, 2021, 12:39:21 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 18, 2021, 03:00:37 PM
Probably can't cook.......................

As Sammy Wilson might say, you can always go to the chipper.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 22, 2021, 12:39:03 PM
So Sinn Fein a whopping 9 points ahead of the nearest rivals, Alliance and DUP. Looks like Michelle O Neill is poised to take the First Minister post next year unless something earth shattering happens in the next 12 months.
A potentially historic moment for northern Nationalists is around the corner. This will be an interesting year.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2021, 03:18:06 PM
Nationalist 39% (incl PBP)
Unionist 41%
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on May 22, 2021, 04:36:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 22, 2021, 12:39:03 PM
So Sinn Fein a whopping 9 points ahead of the nearest rivals, Alliance and DUP. Looks like Michele O Neill is poised to take the First Minister post next year unless something earth shattering happens in the next 12 months.
A potentially historic moment for northern Nationalists is around the corner. This will be an interesting year.

Would be great but as yer man once said. a week is a long time in politics. By the time next may comes today will be long forgotten ...A lot to happen between now and then....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 22, 2021, 05:17:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2021, 03:18:06 PM
Nationalist 39% (incl PBP)
Unionist 41%

Greens are pro unity. It's 41 41.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on May 22, 2021, 09:00:54 PM
Why don't the shinners force the election now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on May 22, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 22, 2021, 12:39:03 PM
So Sinn Fein a whopping 9 points ahead of the nearest rivals, Alliance and DUP. Looks like Michelle O Neill is poised to take the First Minister post next year unless something earth shattering happens in the next 12 months.
A potentially historic moment for northern Nationalists is around the corner. This will be an interesting year.
Sinn Fein will be renaming the posts Joint-first minister. Unionists never had it in them to call it that from the start.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 22, 2021, 09:37:28 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 22, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 22, 2021, 12:39:03 PM
So Sinn Fein a whopping 9 points ahead of the nearest rivals, Alliance and DUP. Looks like Michelle O Neill is poised to take the First Minister post next year unless something earth shattering happens in the next 12 months.
A potentially historic moment for northern Nationalists is around the corner. This will be an interesting year.
Sinn Fein will be renaming the posts Joint-first minister. Unionists never had it in them to call it that from the start.

Possibly yes.
Jim Allister isn't taking the poll well at all

https://tuv.org.uk/tuv-proposal-to-prevent-possible-sinn-fein-first-minister/  (https://tuv.org.uk/tuv-proposal-to-prevent-possible-sinn-fein-first-minister/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 22, 2021, 10:15:49 PM
Posts will collapse Stormont before SF get the big post.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 22, 2021, 11:34:14 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 22, 2021, 10:15:49 PM
Posts will collapse Stormont before SF get the big post.

And then what? I cant see Boris or Dublin being sympathetic to their plight.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on May 23, 2021, 03:34:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 22, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 22, 2021, 12:39:03 PM
So Sinn Fein a whopping 9 points ahead of the nearest rivals, Alliance and DUP. Looks like Michelle O Neill is poised to take the First Minister post next year unless something earth shattering happens in the next 12 months.
A potentially historic moment for northern Nationalists is around the corner. This will be an interesting year.
Sinn Fein will be renaming the posts Joint-first minister. Unionists never had it in them to call it that from the start.
As tempting as it would be to rub the DUP's nose in it, fair play to SF. Although the way it's going the joint minsiters could be Michelle and Naomi rather than Edwin!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on May 23, 2021, 03:45:35 PM
Alliance can become first minister if they get the most votes, but if one or other of the designated parties get FM then Alliance can't get DFM.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 02, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Sinn Fein being against the new property tax in the South is another example of their populist bullshit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
It's only being amended.
I presume they have abolished those Rates on houses in Nationalist Council areas in the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 02, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
It's only being amended.
I presume they have abolished those Rates on houses in Nationalist Council areas in the North.

I got my rates bill from Conor Murphy's department last week anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
It's only being amended.
I presume they have abolished those Rates on houses in Nationalist Council areas in the North.

I got my rates bill from Conor Murphy's department last week anyway.

Got mine yesterday .... absolute joke how its all calculated based on value of property .... bins emptied the same as everyone else, have access to the same council leisure facilities as everyone else, have no idea what justifies the rates based on property value.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 03:05:04 PM
LPT here is based on house values too.
I think most of us in Ros will still be paying the minimum €90 pa.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 03:12:48 PM
Try paying a couple of grand a year and more.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on June 02, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
Rates bill gone up from 920 to 995 not a problem as services have to be paid for. Pearse Doherty giving out well his 3000 sq foot abode would be about 2500 under Conor up here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 03:20:43 PM
Ahhh but you get free Doctor ;)
Not that we get much out in the sticks... an odd bit of road surfacing maybe.
Townies get paths, parks, street lights etc better maintained since LPT came in.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 03:29:05 PM
Quote from: skeog on June 02, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
Rates bill gone up from 920 to 995 not a problem as services have to be paid for. Pearse Doherty giving out well his 3000 sq foot abode would be about 2500 under Conor up here

That's the hypocrisy of the situation.  SF/DUP passed our current rates structure in the north, and it misses the point that because someone's house has a certain valuation does not mean they can afford to pay an exponential rates bill e.g. 3 bedroom house on a housing estate would come in around £400 a year ... 3 bedroom 3000 sq foot house outside the town around the 2000+ mark at least .... some difference for the same service being provided to both houses.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 02, 2021, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
It's only being amended.
I presume they have abolished those Rates on houses in Nationalist Council areas in the North.

I got my rates bill from Conor Murphy's department last week anyway.

Got mine yesterday .... absolute joke how its all calculated based on value of property .... bins emptied the same as everyone else, have access to the same council leisure facilities as everyone else, have no idea what justifies the rates based on property value.

Same as any tax, its weighted so the well off pay more than the lesser off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2021, 03:45:10 PM
SF.

Lol.

Stupid people
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 02, 2021, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 02, 2021, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
It's only being amended.
I presume they have abolished those Rates on houses in Nationalist Council areas in the North.

I got my rates bill from Conor Murphy's department last week anyway.

Got mine yesterday .... absolute joke how its all calculated based on value of property .... bins emptied the same as everyone else, have access to the same council leisure facilities as everyone else, have no idea what justifies the rates based on property value.

Same as any tax, its weighted so the well off pay more than the lesser off.

I'd agree with the well off paying more but that doesn't necessarily mean that because you've a big house you have the disposable income to cover the property tax/rates that's foisted on you.

I'd love to see some councils have a forensic inspection of their accounts as there's without doubt huge wastes of money going every which way but loose and then the rates go up the following year to cover their wastefulness.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 04:42:52 PM
Should be based on the number of people in a property, not on the value of the house ... at least there is a tangible link between services rendered and services paid for ... the current setup based on property value has no relationship to the actual services being provided.  I guess a kind of poll tax ain't palatable to everyone ... but it is a fairer system i.e. why should one person living alone pay 5 times as much as a family of 5 just because of the value of the property. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on June 02, 2021, 04:48:51 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2021, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 02, 2021, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
It's only being amended.
I presume they have abolished those Rates on houses in Nationalist Council areas in the North.

I got my rates bill from Conor Murphy's department last week anyway.

Got mine yesterday .... absolute joke how its all calculated based on value of property .... bins emptied the same as everyone else, have access to the same council leisure facilities as everyone else, have no idea what justifies the rates based on property value.

Same as any tax, its weighted so the well off pay more than the lesser off.

I'd agree with the well off paying more but that doesn't necessarily mean that because you've a big house you have the disposable income to cover the property tax/rates that's foisted on you.

I'd love to see some councils have a forensic inspection of their accounts as there's without doubt huge wastes of money going every which way but loose and then the rates go up the following year to cover their wastefulness.

They know they can be wasteful as they want, and dish out ratepayer money to their mates, as they know there is an endless supply of ratepayer cash and if necessary just increase the rates
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on June 02, 2021, 04:54:23 PM
I don't have a major issue with the rates bill being linked to the value of the property because I am a firm believer that those who can most afford to pay should pay a little bit more. Alternatively it could be linked to the income of the house owners which would be another form of progressive taxation. No matter how this is done you can see that there will always be people who are penalised unfairly more than others. 

I do have a major issue with the size of the rates bills relative to the services being offered.

The SF policy against LPT in the south is just another populist decision aimed at winning votes. The day that they get into power, reality will bite and everything will change for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2021, 05:55:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2021, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 02, 2021, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
It's only being amended.
I presume they have abolished those Rates on houses in Nationalist Council areas in the North.

I got my rates bill from Conor Murphy's department last week anyway.

Got mine yesterday .... absolute joke how its all calculated based on value of property .... bins emptied the same as everyone else, have access to the same council leisure facilities as everyone else, have no idea what justifies the rates based on property value.

Same as any tax, its weighted so the well off pay more than the lesser off.

I'd agree with the well off paying more but that doesn't necessarily mean that because you've a big house you have the disposable income to cover the property tax/rates that's foisted on you.

I'd love to see some councils have a forensic inspection of their accounts as there's without doubt huge wastes of money going every which way but loose and then the rates go up the following year to cover their wastefulness.

Well you've hit nail in head, the money usually goes to SF community projects with no value to the public
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JoG2 on June 02, 2021, 07:34:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2021, 05:55:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2021, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 02, 2021, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
It's only being amended.
I presume they have abolished those Rates on houses in Nationalist Council areas in the North.

I got my rates bill from Conor Murphy's department last week anyway.

Got mine yesterday .... absolute joke how its all calculated based on value of property .... bins emptied the same as everyone else, have access to the same council leisure facilities as everyone else, have no idea what justifies the rates based on property value.

Same as any tax, its weighted so the well off pay more than the lesser off.

I'd agree with the well off paying more but that doesn't necessarily mean that because you've a big house you have the disposable income to cover the property tax/rates that's foisted on you.

I'd love to see some councils have a forensic inspection of their accounts as there's without doubt huge wastes of money going every which way but loose and then the rates go up the following year to cover their wastefulness.

Well you've hit nail in head, the money usually goes to SF community projects with no value to the public

https://www.derrynow.com/news/news/637443/investigation-to-be-launched-into-claims-of-nepotism-within-council-funded-community-groups-in-derry.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2021, 08:18:00 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 02, 2021, 07:34:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2021, 05:55:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2021, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 02, 2021, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on June 02, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
It's only being amended.
I presume they have abolished those Rates on houses in Nationalist Council areas in the North.

I got my rates bill from Conor Murphy's department last week anyway.

Got mine yesterday .... absolute joke how its all calculated based on value of property .... bins emptied the same as everyone else, have access to the same council leisure facilities as everyone else, have no idea what justifies the rates based on property value.

Same as any tax, its weighted so the well off pay more than the lesser off.

I'd agree with the well off paying more but that doesn't necessarily mean that because you've a big house you have the disposable income to cover the property tax/rates that's foisted on you.

I'd love to see some councils have a forensic inspection of their accounts as there's without doubt huge wastes of money going every which way but loose and then the rates go up the following year to cover their wastefulness.

Well you've hit nail in head, the money usually goes to SF community projects with no value to the public

https://www.derrynow.com/news/news/637443/investigation-to-be-launched-into-claims-of-nepotism-within-council-funded-community-groups-in-derry.html

To add injury to insult SF tried to add amendment only allowing investigation into Rosemount community center. It was defeated. Crooks and thieves. Let them into run the Dáil please quick
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 02, 2021, 10:26:51 PM
I'd be happy to pay more. But SF talking out of both sides of their mouths is ridiculous. When they get into power and they will the South will suffer a serious decline. You can't lower taxes and up spend. Won't work.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 10:59:36 PM
FF tried that back in 1977 and gave us the 1980s recession.
SF will only get into power as part of a Coalition so the Programme for Government will likely jettison their sillier populist nonsense. Unless of course the Loony Left get 20 or so seats.
And on the Housing front.... how many developments have SF tried to stop or object to.
And then berate the Government for not getting loads of houses built.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 02, 2021, 11:10:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 10:59:36 PM
FF tried that back in 1977 and gave us the 1980s recession.
SF will only get into power as part of a Coalition so the Programme for Government will likely jettison their sillier populist nonsense. Unless of course the Loony Left get 20 or so seats.
And on the Housing front.... how many developments have SF tried to stop or object to.
And then berate the Government for not getting loads of houses built.

You know full well the last bit is utter bollix, but it's just your mask slipping again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 11:47:22 PM
No it's not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 03, 2021, 08:27:57 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 11:47:22 PM
No it's not.

Its disingenuous, you know full well why they objected to these sweet heart deals for builders or do you think we should throw any amount of money to these people to build the houses.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 03, 2021, 09:41:48 AM
Opposed to 238 social and 238 social houses in Fingal on ideological grounds.
I'd say those 476 families will be delighted to continue paying huge rents or living in emergency accomodation as a matter of principle.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 03, 2021, 09:41:48 AM
Opposed to 238 social and 238 social houses in Fingal on ideological grounds.
I'd say those 476 families will be delighted to continue paying huge rents or living in emergency accomodation as a matter of principle.

Up here they have totally infiltrated the social housing associations and they are forcing builds into green belts , God knows where the paper trails end
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on June 03, 2021, 10:46:18 AM
ApexIRA
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 11:03:24 AM
Quote from: general_lee on June 03, 2021, 10:46:18 AM
ApexIRA

You know the craic, they are trying to bully planning depts via councillors
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 03, 2021, 11:09:25 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 11:03:24 AM
Quote from: general_lee on June 03, 2021, 10:46:18 AM
ApexIRA

You know the craic, they are trying to bully planning depts via councillors

Must have learned that trick from the DUP in the north and FF in the south. Micheal no stranger to a wee envelope either.

Before you know it they'll have a tent at the Galway races.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 11:17:22 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 03, 2021, 11:09:25 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 11:03:24 AM
Quote from: general_lee on June 03, 2021, 10:46:18 AM
ApexIRA

You know the craic, they are trying to bully planning depts via councillors

Must have learned that trick from the DUP in the north and FF in the south. Micheal no stranger to a wee envelope either.

Before you know it they'll have a tent at the Galway races.

To use a well worn SF twitter hashtag. Two cheeks of the one arse. Apex are corrupt
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dire Ear on June 03, 2021, 11:22:49 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57342924

Handy money
Sinn Féin receive almost £800k more from will of Billy Hampton
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 11:31:47 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57334673

Another SF mess
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 03, 2021, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 11:31:47 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57334673

Another SF mess

How so?

Is Peter Weir not the Education minister or are you saying Conor Murphy should usurp him and give funding to these schools?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 01:15:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 03, 2021, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 11:31:47 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57334673

Another SF mess

How so?

Is Peter Weir not the Education minister or are you saying Conor Murphy should usurp him and give funding to these schools?

There was 1 IMS in Derry City, Bunscoil Cholmcille founded in 1983(second oldest in NI), SF tried to take over the school and found that they couldnt, therefore they started their own school in Brandywell under the premises that it was really because they wanted a non CCMS set up. This diluted the numbers but was almost sustainable for a while because of the distance between the schools. Their board are amongst those shifted in Derry recently by leadership, Gaeilscoil EM, Bogside Brandywell, Cultúrlann are essentially same people SF

Then another splinter(mostly non SF voters and real gaeilgeoir diehards) wanted another school where they could drive their own ethos. This was built 2.5 miles from BC, it should never and I mean never have been approved and was rejected initially on sustainability queries. And guess what when SF got the job they approved it(Catherine Ruane)!!

We now have 3 schools in Derry with no facilities, the oldest BC has no canteen. SF caused this on 2 fronts, they wanted control and secondly they wanted to blindly show DUP that they would turn around a justified sustainability question just to give them the 2 fingers salute.

The numbers are roughly the same in total in the 3 schools as they were when we had 1 But because each is under the threshold they cant get new facilities. STUPID SF DUNCES.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 11:31:47 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57334673

Another SF mess

SF haven't had the education portfolio in s long long time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 01:34:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 03, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2021, 11:31:47 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57334673

Another SF mess

SF haven't had the education portfolio in s long long time.

I know, this mess was done few years back both at govt and local level, no way out of it now. Shambles.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 03, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 03, 2021, 09:41:48 AM
Opposed to 238 social and 238 social houses in Fingal on ideological grounds.
I'd say those 476 families will be delighted to continue paying huge rents or living in emergency accomodation as a matter of principle.

I'm glad you received your FG handbook and textbook answers. Tell me what FF/FG have done to stop vultures buying up whole housing estates. Sure I suppose it doesnt matter, the people will still get the houses in the end. Sure a lad like you would be happy as long as some politician can look after your potholes, move your esb pole or yoursave your turf bog. To hell with doing what is right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 03, 2021, 02:12:36 PM
Doing right The Sinn Fein way?
No houses anywhere hear anyone so private houses can cost a fortune and loads of people can  be put living in hotels so Maryloo can wrinkle up her forehead in outrage and indignation in the Dáil.
Some won't see through it which seems to be the whole point.
By the way unlike yourself I never read a political party handbook in my life and have no intention of doing so.
Long Centuries of Connacht DNA enables me to recognise bullsh1t when I come across it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 09, 2021, 06:59:30 PM
 https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feinmembers-posed-as-pollstersto-collect-data-on-voters-40517853.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feinmembers-posed-as-pollstersto-collect-data-on-voters-40517853.html)

Not a normal political party. If this is what they're up to when not in power what will they get up to when they're in power?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mike Tyson on June 09, 2021, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 06:59:30 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feinmembers-posed-as-pollstersto-collect-data-on-voters-40517853.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feinmembers-posed-as-pollstersto-collect-data-on-voters-40517853.html)

Not a normal political party. If this is what they're up to when not in power what will they get up to when they're in power?

Yea, madness. No other party would dare be at that craic. Ever. Especially not one in power  >:(

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/varadkar-admitsfine-gael-paid-studentsto-misrepresent-themselves-to-voters-as-working-for-polling-company-40520674.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on June 09, 2021, 09:03:26 PM
Few of the usual suspects wet themselves on Twitter over this  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 09, 2021, 09:16:27 PM
Absolutely wrong. Hiding behind whataboutery. Had they nothing better to be at?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on June 09, 2021, 09:37:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 06:59:30 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feinmembers-posed-as-pollstersto-collect-data-on-voters-40517853.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feinmembers-posed-as-pollstersto-collect-data-on-voters-40517853.html)

Not a normal political party. If this is what they're up to when not in power what will they get up to when they're in power?

;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Lar Naparka on June 09, 2021, 10:48:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 03, 2021, 02:12:36 PM
Doing right The Sinn Fein way?
No houses anywhere hear anyone so private houses can cost a fortune and loads of people can  be put living in hotels so Maryloo can wrinkle up her forehead in outrage and indignation in the Dáil.
Some won't see through it which seems to be the whole point.
By the way unlike yourself I never read a political party handbook in my life and have no intention of doing so.
Long Centuries of Connacht DNA enables me to recognise bullsh1t when I come across it.
G'man Ross, you're suckin' diesel!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 11:32:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 09:16:27 PM
Absolutely wrong. Hiding behind whataboutery. Had they nothing better to be at?
The Shinnerbots' deflection schtick now is "FF and FG were doing it too"

And throw in a smiley

That really isn't much of an argument from a party and an online support who claim they're different to FF and FG

These are the same eejits who went apeshit when it was found Eoghan Harris had a fake Twitter account

Yet they have no problem deceiving people - the same thing Harris did, and their supporters here have no problem with it

So in reality they had no problem with the fake account by Harris at all, their outrage was entirely fake, they only care that an enemy of theirs got caught, yet when they caught doing the same thing, ah shure it's grand, we'll laugh it off

That's cult behaviour and shows that Shinners believe in nothing except power

Pure Trumpism

They behave exactly the way you'd expect, every time
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 10:43:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

I dont think FF or FG stand in the North last time i checked
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 10, 2021, 10:54:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 10:43:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

I dont think FF or FG stand in the North last time i checked

And the rest don't have the resources to do it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 10:56:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 10:43:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

I dont think FF or FG stand in the North last time i checked

Aren't the SDLP in partnership with FF? Not worth even a mention, no? Aren't the Greens an All-Ireland party and weren't they also implicated in this activity yesterday? Not worth a mention, no?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:32:38 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 10:56:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 10:43:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

I dont think FF or FG stand in the North last time i checked

Aren't the SDLP in partnership with FF? Not worth even a mention, no? Aren't the Greens an All-Ireland party and weren't they also implicated in this activity yesterday? Not worth a mention, no?

Worth a mention but certainly not of the same relevance to us here who have SF in power.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:35:45 AM
On another point did anyone acttually understand a word of MONs rambling in response to DUP changes yesterday on Radio Ulster?
Sweet jesus she is dense
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:17:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:32:38 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 10:56:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 10:43:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

I dont think FF or FG stand in the North last time i checked

Aren't the SDLP in partnership with FF? Not worth even a mention, no? Aren't the Greens an All-Ireland party and weren't they also implicated in this activity yesterday? Not worth a mention, no?

Worth a mention but certainly not of the same relevance to us here who have SF in power.

Worth a mention. Did he mention it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 12:22:33 PM
More and more people are copping on to the fact that the MSM make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to SF wrong doings but are happy to look the other way for the rest. It's getting to the stage that there are the usual suspects on twitter snd on here acting outraged but the majority pass no remarks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 12:26:14 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 12:22:33 PM
More and more people are copping on to the fact that the MSM make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to SF wrong doings but are happy to look the other way for the rest. It's getting to the stage that there are the usual suspects on twitter snd on here acting outraged but the majority pass no remarks.
Trump Trump Trump

Fake News Media

Lock Em Up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 12:29:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 12:26:14 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 12:22:33 PM
More and more people are copping on to the fact that the MSM make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to SF wrong doings but are happy to look the other way for the rest. It's getting to the stage that there are the usual suspects on twitter snd on here acting outraged but the majority pass no remarks.
Trump Trump Trump

Fake News Media

Lock Em Up
Yup. Usual suspects.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?

yes, but as you keep saying, yous are "the biggest show in the country" numbers wise, my point is yous all apparently are boycotting it! BS as usual from Shinners
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?

yes, but as you keep saying, yous are "the biggest show in the country" numbers wise, my point is yous all apparently are boycotting it! BS as usual from Shinners

SF supporters aren't members of a union. Some don't listen, some do. To say that "shinners" are the ones boosting his ratings is just nonsensical waffle.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?

yes, but as you keep saying, yous are "the biggest show in the country" numbers wise, my point is yous all apparently are boycotting it! BS as usual from Shinners

SF supporters aren't members of a union. Some don't listen, some do. To say that "shinners" are the ones boosting his ratings is just nonsensical waffle.

I know. Its a cult
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 10, 2021, 01:07:27 PM
Green party have admitted to it now too. Truth is they were all at it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 01:17:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 10, 2021, 01:07:27 PM
Green party have admitted to it now too. Truth is they were all at it.
SF have marketed themselves as being different

The truth is they're far worse

They have an allergic reaction to scrutiny

They genuinely do think it is cheek and affrontery that journalists would try to scrutinise them, I mean how dare they, don't they know who we are?

Cue more whataboutery and deflection

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?

yes, but as you keep saying, yous are "the biggest show in the country" numbers wise, my point is yous all apparently are boycotting it! BS as usual from Shinners

SF supporters aren't members of a union. Some don't listen, some do. To say that "shinners" are the ones boosting his ratings is just nonsensical waffle.

I know. Its a cult

Yaddayadda. Anything to say about what we are actually discussing or was that your attempt to avoid doing so? How can you say the shinners are the ones responsible for Nolan's numbers any more than voters of any other party?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 02:23:31 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?

yes, but as you keep saying, yous are "the biggest show in the country" numbers wise, my point is yous all apparently are boycotting it! BS as usual from Shinners

SF supporters aren't members of a union. Some don't listen, some do. To say that "shinners" are the ones boosting his ratings is just nonsensical waffle.

I know. Its a cult

Yaddayadda. Anything to say about what we are actually discussing or was that your attempt to avoid doing so? How can you say the shinners are the ones responsible for Nolan's numbers any more than voters of any other party?

Ive said quite clearly above what I think, not sure what else I acn do to help you understand
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 02:56:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 02:23:31 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?

yes, but as you keep saying, yous are "the biggest show in the country" numbers wise, my point is yous all apparently are boycotting it! BS as usual from Shinners

SF supporters aren't members of a union. Some don't listen, some do. To say that "shinners" are the ones boosting his ratings is just nonsensical waffle.

I know. Its a cult

Yaddayadda. Anything to say about what we are actually discussing or was that your attempt to avoid doing so? How can you say the shinners are the ones responsible for Nolan's numbers any more than voters of any other party?

Ive said quite clearly above what I think, not sure what else I can do to help you understand

So you think that "all" (your words) SF supporters claim to be boycotting Nolan? Have you any form of evidence of Nolan listeners broken down by the party those listeners vote for? Or would it just be easier to accept that you were talking through your hole?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 03:13:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?

yes, but as you keep saying, yous are "the biggest show in the country" numbers wise, my point is yous all apparently are boycotting it! BS as usual from Shinners

SF supporters aren't members of a union. Some don't listen, some do. To say that "shinners" are the ones boosting his ratings is just nonsensical waffle.

I know. Its a cult

Yaddayadda. Anything to say about what we are actually discussing or was that your attempt to avoid doing so? How can you say the shinners are the ones responsible for Nolan's numbers any more than voters of any other party?
I'm trying to recall an instance of a Shinnerbot ever genuinely discussing a relevant issue on this forum

And I genuinely can't recall one

And I spend 25 hours a day on here, so I've heard anyway
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 03:29:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 03:13:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?

yes, but as you keep saying, yous are "the biggest show in the country" numbers wise, my point is yous all apparently are boycotting it! BS as usual from Shinners

SF supporters aren't members of a union. Some don't listen, some do. To say that "shinners" are the ones boosting his ratings is just nonsensical waffle.

I know. Its a cult

Yaddayadda. Anything to say about what we are actually discussing or was that your attempt to avoid doing so? How can you say the shinners are the ones responsible for Nolan's numbers any more than voters of any other party?
I'm trying to recall an instance of a Shinnerbot ever genuinely discussing a relevant issue on this forum

And I genuinely can't recall one

And I spend 25 hours a day on here, so I've heard anyway

::) You know when someone uses the word "shinnerbot" that there will be no use or substance to their post. You've just demonstrated that very well, once again.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 03:36:16 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 03:29:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 03:13:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 10, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 10, 2021, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 10, 2021, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 10, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Had to turn Nolan off this am in the car, lead story SF posing as pollsters...no mention of Ff or FG. The bias is breathtaking.

You've only yourself to blame for turning him on in the first instance unless you have a fetish for sectarian mudslinging carried out in the name of ratings.

Its the Shinners who boost his ratings, all i hear are boys saying "dont usually listen to him but....."

What an odd statement. Surely anyone who listens to him boosts his ratings? Unless you are suggesting that only SF supporters listen to him?

yes, but as you keep saying, yous are "the biggest show in the country" numbers wise, my point is yous all apparently are boycotting it! BS as usual from Shinners

SF supporters aren't members of a union. Some don't listen, some do. To say that "shinners" are the ones boosting his ratings is just nonsensical waffle.

I know. Its a cult

Yaddayadda. Anything to say about what we are actually discussing or was that your attempt to avoid doing so? How can you say the shinners are the ones responsible for Nolan's numbers any more than voters of any other party?
I'm trying to recall an instance of a Shinnerbot ever genuinely discussing a relevant issue on this forum

And I genuinely can't recall one

And I spend 25 hours a day on here, so I've heard anyway

::) You know when someone uses the word "shinnerbot" that there will be no use or substance to their post. You've just demonstrated that very well, once again.
You know when somebody responds like this that the term Shinnerbot seriously irks them, because they know it's true, and they know they fall into the category

Right, Shinnerbot?  ;D

Also I don't think I'll be taking a judgement on what constitutes "substance" from you  ;D

Hallucinogenic substance, perhaps

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 10, 2021, 03:38:42 PM
And we're off.......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 13, 2021, 11:57:04 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-takes-10-point-lead-over-fine-gael-in-latest-opinion-poll-40533097.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on June 13, 2021, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 13, 2021, 11:57:04 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-takes-10-point-lead-over-fine-gael-in-latest-opinion-poll-40533097.html
Those figures are a bit of a surprise, could be some lingering angst about the slow withdrawal of covid restrictions, but probably the housing crisis looms large and the government's bungled handling  on almost every aspect of the crisis.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 16, 2021, 09:33:47 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-holds-31pc-of-the-national-vote-latest-opinion-poll-40548318.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on June 17, 2021, 02:08:21 AM
First ministers to be nominated and London to pass Irish Language act letting Poots et al off the hook.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 08:17:20 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM

Sure Clare Hanna and Colm are going to table it as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:20:50 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 08:17:20 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM

Sure Clare Hanna and Colm are going to table it as well.

Ach that's it sorted then....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 08:52:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.
What choice did they have? I'd say the fact SF of all parties had to look to the Brits shows that only one party is willing to compromise and make Stormont work and shows just how big a shower of c***ts the DUP are, if there was any lingering doubt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 08:56:12 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?
I'd trust a Tory about as far as I could throw Big Ben. But I don't see them caring enough to shaft us here, at the end of the day they want Stormont to work and to not be annoying them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 09:14:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 08:56:12 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?
I'd trust a Tory about as far as I could throw Big Ben. But I don't see them caring enough to shaft us here, at the end of the day they want Stormont to work and to not be annoying them.

they need Stormont as they know the NIP is for staying in some form and someone has to take the fall for that as well.

currently Stormont is useful to the Tories so passing this culture bill won't cost them a second thought no matter what their mate Doddsy says.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:24:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

Exactly. SF pick and choose and spin
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is

Struggling how you make all those a SF issue. Please expand
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on June 17, 2021, 10:13:21 AM
I think someone has missed the point in a power sharing executive  ::)

I suppose it doesn't fit the agenda.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 10:15:12 AM
Pragmatism had to take effect here and the alternative was a Stormont collapse and more chaos and upheavel so I am glad that it has been resolved even though the British government had to step in. Of course anti SF posters are so entrenched in their own views that they are already claiming that it was a disgrace that they leaned on the British government but those same posters would have also criticised them if they had taken the alternative option and collapased the assembly.

On this occasion the British government taking the decision suits both SF and the DUP for differing reasons. It again just proves how dysfunctional this place actually is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on June 17, 2021, 10:18:02 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 10:15:12 AM
Pragmatism had to take effect here and the alternative was a Stormont collapse and more chaos and upheavel so I am glad that it has been resolved even though the British government had to step in. Of course anti SF posters are so entrenched in their own views that they are already claiming that it was a disgrace that they leaned on the British government but those same posters would have also criticised them if they had taken the alternative option and collapased the assembly.

On this occasion the British government taking the decision suits both SF and the DUP for differing reasons. It again just proves how dysfunctional this place actually is.

I will shocked and stunned if this hasnt been a pre-arranged deal between the DUP/SF and both governments, everyone gets to keep face the Assembly stays in place and the legislation gets moved forward.

Until the next crisis that the DUP drag this place into.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:18:06 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 10:15:12 AM
Pragmatism had to take effect here and the alternative was a Stormont collapse and more chaos and upheavel so I am glad that it has been resolved even though the British government had to step in. Of course anti SF posters are so entrenched in their own views that they are already claiming that it was a disgrace that they leaned on the British government but those same posters would have also criticised them if they had taken the alternative option and collapased the assembly.

On this occasion the British government taking the decision suits both SF and the DUP for differing reasons. It again just proves how dysfunctional this place actually is.
Absolutely. SF get the ILA, the DUP get to blame the bogeyman again and Stormont doesn't collapse. Everyone is a winner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Was the DUP'ers blocking all 3, not SF. Or are you too blinded by your anti-SF obsession to acknowledge that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Was the DUP'ers blocking all 3, not SF. Or are you too blinded by your anti-SF obsession to acknowledge that?

He willfully chooses to misunderstand how power sharing in Stormont works (or not in most cases) and it is the DUP who are either intransigent or break their promises.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Was the DUP'ers blocking all 3, not SF. Or are you too blinded by your anti-SF obsession to acknowledge that?

He willfully chooses to misunderstand how power sharing in Stormont works (or not in most cases) and it is the DUP who are either intransigent or break their promises.
I understand full well how it works

It doesn't work

And it certainly doesn't work with the parties involved

It is quite the irony to see the Brits come to the rescue, I thought SF supporters were very much against that kind of thing!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:38:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Was the DUP'ers blocking all 3, not SF. Or are you too blinded by your anti-SF obsession to acknowledge that?

He willfully chooses to misunderstand how power sharing in Stormont works (or not in most cases) and it is the DUP who are either intransigent or break their promises.
I understand full well how it works

It doesn't work

And it certainly doesn't work with the parties involved

It is quite the irony to see the Brits come to the rescue, I thought SF supporters were very much against that kind of thing!
On this we can agree.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:44:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:38:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Was the DUP'ers blocking all 3, not SF. Or are you too blinded by your anti-SF obsession to acknowledge that?

He willfully chooses to misunderstand how power sharing in Stormont works (or not in most cases) and it is the DUP who are either intransigent or break their promises.
I understand full well how it works

It doesn't work

And it certainly doesn't work with the parties involved

It is quite the irony to see the Brits come to the rescue, I thought SF supporters were very much against that kind of thing!
On this we can agree.

Would you say Westminster is relevant now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2021, 10:51:35 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Was the DUP'ers blocking all 3, not SF. Or are you too blinded by your anti-SF obsession to acknowledge that?

He willfully chooses to misunderstand how power sharing in Stormont works (or not in most cases) and it is the DUP who are either intransigent or break their promises.
I understand full well how it works

It doesn't work

And it certainly doesn't work with the parties involved

It is quite the irony to see the Brits come to the rescue, I thought SF supporters were very much against that kind of thing!
Given your initial post you either don't understand power sharing or were intentionally being dishonest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on June 17, 2021, 11:01:06 AM
What SF have consistently proven time and again is that you don't need to take your seat in WM to get face time with the British PM, get the British to a negotiating table, or get the British to make decisions in your interest. Must really suck balls being a SNP or Plaid Cymru MP.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

Yeah they are totally painted into a corner and it wouldn't be so bad if they were a united party but they are so fractious that every option now is a disaster.

I am worried that collapsing Stormont is a legitimate negotiating tactic. What if the DUP want to collapse Stormont over the Protocol? Or some other issue?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:16:30 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

Yeah they are totally painted into a corner and it wouldn't be so bad if they were a united party but they are so fractious that every option now is a disaster.

I am worried that collapsing Stormont is a legitimate negotiating tactic. What if the DUP want to collapse Stormont over the Protocol? Or some other issue?

Possibly but I do think that the risk of collapsing Stormont is potentially greater for the DUP than for SF even though it is not really in the interests of either side. What happens then is that some form of direct rule or joint authority is instigated and decisions that they could previously have vetoed are implemented without their consent. They really are in a corner and that is before you even mention the internal wranglings within the party which are not going away any time soon.   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2021, 11:18:40 AM
The reality is that the British Government are (unreal to be saying this) more reliable negotiating partners than the DUP at the minute. In the past the British Government and Unionists were both United in their contempt for nationalists in NI. The BG now have to keep an appearance of acting fairly, especially where the EU are nosing around. They don't want NI destroying their Great British Brexit.

The DUP are lost. They are like the little kid in the playground who made friends with the school bully to protect them. But now the big kid has realised the little kid is a bollix and f**ked off. The little kid is now all mouth no muscle. They're screwed!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 17, 2021, 11:22:53 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0617/1228654-northern-ireland-latest/

If only we could go back to the 50s......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on June 17, 2021, 11:24:40 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it
Absolute disaster for the DUP. Up until now they held the trump card that SF would never be forgiven if the collapsed Stormont over the ILA, now it potentially they who are going to do that.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 11:36:44 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.
I'd say he's safe enough. He'll just do the usual and blame those pesky Fenians.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 11:38:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

Yeah they are totally painted into a corner and it wouldn't be so bad if they were a united party but they are so fractious that every option now is a disaster.

I am worried that collapsing Stormont is a legitimate negotiating tactic. What if the DUP want to collapse Stormont over the Protocol? Or some other issue?
Then we're looking at an election where they'll get their arses handed to them and inevitably a border poll.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:41:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 11:38:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

Yeah they are totally painted into a corner and it wouldn't be so bad if they were a united party but they are so fractious that every option now is a disaster.

I am worried that collapsing Stormont is a legitimate negotiating tactic. What if the DUP want to collapse Stormont over the Protocol? Or some other issue?
Then we're looking at an election where they'll get their arses handed to them and inevitably a border poll.

Listen, Stormont needs to work. Even in a New Ireland Stormont isn't going anywhere. Don't be so naive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 11:43:10 AM
I presume SF will be fighting the next election under the SF/Conservative and Unionist Party banner?  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Was the DUP'ers blocking all 3, not SF. Or are you too blinded by your anti-SF obsession to acknowledge that?

He willfully chooses to misunderstand how power sharing in Stormont works (or not in most cases) and it is the DUP who are either intransigent or break their promises.
I understand full well how it works

It doesn't work

And it certainly doesn't work with the parties involved

It is quite the irony to see the Brits come to the rescue, I thought SF supporters were very much against that kind of thing!

I agree that Stormont in its current form is unsuitable for substantial change to any institutions as we well know but don't think this is down to the DUP and the Shinners as the DUP have made it clear they'll hold their noses not matter what taig is sitting across the table from them.
The DUP have triggered the petition of concern 87 times or the likes since they've been in joint power. They don't want those pesky taigs about the place
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on June 17, 2021, 11:47:27 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

I think they would probably say that this is the way to do business with Westminster. Going there would achieve nothing as you could not get a bill passed without the agreement of the government.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 11:49:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:41:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 11:38:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

Yeah they are totally painted into a corner and it wouldn't be so bad if they were a united party but they are so fractious that every option now is a disaster.

I am worried that collapsing Stormont is a legitimate negotiating tactic. What if the DUP want to collapse Stormont over the Protocol? Or some other issue?
Then we're looking at an election where they'll get their arses handed to them and inevitably a border poll.

Listen, Stormont needs to work. Even in a New Ireland Stormont isn't going anywhere. Don't be so naive.
Of course it needs to work. But it is clearly dysfunctional and there is one party and one party alone at fault.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.

No but a lot of nationalists certainly opposed the changes to abortion laws
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:03:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things

I never like the way these 2 things are suggested as mutually exclusive
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 12:16:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.

No but a lot of nationalists certainly opposed the changes to abortion laws
Yes and? Perfectly entitled to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 12:18:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:03:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things

I never like the way these 2 things are suggested as mutually exclusive
Agreed. You'll the vast vast majority of people are ok with gay marriage barring the hardliners, but abortion is definitely a lot stickier.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 12:18:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:03:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things

I never like the way these 2 things are suggested as mutually exclusive
Agreed. You'll the vast vast majority of people are ok with gay marriage barring the hardliners, but abortion is definitely a lot stickier.

Yep
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

Or another way of looking at it is that SF got the British government to do what the stoops, who don't abstain, could not.

Has to be said, the SDLP really did make an utter mess of it the past few weeks. Out-maneuvered by SF and shown up to have attempted to facilitate then exploit the DUP's bad faith in order to attack the shinners. They deserve the heavy criticism they are now getting. Even this morning on GMU, when most people can see this has been a SF success, Nicola Mallon could barely bring herself to attacking the DUP position through it all. It was just a litany of anti-SF verbals. Do the SDLP stand for anything at all beyond attacking SF?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:34:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

Or another way of looking at it is that SF got the British government to do what the stoops, who don't abstain, could not.

Has to be said, the SDLP really did make an utter mess of it the past few weeks. Out-maneuvered by SF and shown up to have attempted to facilitate then exploit the DUP's bad faith in order to attack the shinners. They deserve the heavy criticism they are now getting. Even this morning on GMU, when most people can see this has been a SF success, Nicola Mallon could barely bring herself to attacking the DUP position through it all. It was just a litany of anti-SF verbals. Do the SDLP stand for anything at all beyond attacking SF?

This makes no sense at all. Surely every party pressurised the Tories on it bar the DUP? Thats my reading of it

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 12:43:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

Or another way of looking at it is that SF got the British government to do what the stoops, who don't abstain, could not.

Has to be said, the SDLP really did make an utter mess of it the past few weeks. Out-maneuvered by SF and shown up to have attempted to facilitate then exploit the DUP's bad faith in order to attack the shinners. They deserve the heavy criticism they are now getting. Even this morning on GMU, when most people can see this has been a SF success, Nicola Mallon could barely bring herself to attacking the DUP position through it all. It was just a litany of anti-SF verbals. Do the SDLP stand for anything at all beyond attacking SF?

Cool story bro.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Remind me why we are talking about SF v SDLP again?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?
OK Tory Boy
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:53:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:34:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

Or another way of looking at it is that SF got the British government to do what the stoops, who don't abstain, could not.

Has to be said, the SDLP really did make an utter mess of it the past few weeks. Out-maneuvered by SF and shown up to have attempted to facilitate then exploit the DUP's bad faith in order to attack the shinners. They deserve the heavy criticism they are now getting. Even this morning on GMU, when most people can see this has been a SF success, Nicola Mallon could barely bring herself to attacking the DUP position through it all. It was just a litany of anti-SF verbals. Do the SDLP stand for anything at all beyond attacking SF?

This makes no sense at all. Surely every party pressurised the Tories on it bar the DUP? Thats my reading of it

lol What? Nothing to do with SF threatening to not nominate a Deputy First Minister? Nothing to do with SF's approach to the British Government? Are you anywhere even close to wise?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on June 17, 2021, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Colm's still working on stopping Brexit, I think.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 12:59:28 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 17, 2021, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Colm's still working on stopping Brexit, I think.
SF were delighted with Brexit

That's because they don't actually give a shit about the real lives of people in NI, including their own supporters
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 01:06:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?
OK Tory Boy
You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 01:06:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?
OK Tory Boy
You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Ah, that would fit with you being a Tory!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 01:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 01:06:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?
OK Tory Boy
You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Ah, that would fit with you being a Tory!
You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 01:21:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:53:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:34:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

Or another way of looking at it is that SF got the British government to do what the stoops, who don't abstain, could not.

Has to be said, the SDLP really did make an utter mess of it the past few weeks. Out-maneuvered by SF and shown up to have attempted to facilitate then exploit the DUP's bad faith in order to attack the shinners. They deserve the heavy criticism they are now getting. Even this morning on GMU, when most people can see this has been a SF success, Nicola Mallon could barely bring herself to attacking the DUP position through it all. It was just a litany of anti-SF verbals. Do the SDLP stand for anything at all beyond attacking SF?

This makes no sense at all. Surely every party pressurised the Tories on it bar the DUP? Thats my reading of it

lol What? Nothing to do with SF threatening to not nominate a Deputy First Minister? Nothing to do with SF's approach to the British Government? Are you anywhere even close to wise?

Tá mé go hiomlan ciallmhar rud nach dtiocfadh liom a rá fuatsa
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 17, 2021, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Colm's still working on stopping Brexit, I think.

Apparently him and Martina Anderson. Shes bringing the bin lids
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 01:26:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 01:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 01:06:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?
OK Tory Boy
You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Ah, that would fit with you being a Tory!
You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
You are, you supported the blowing up of children

He did accuse me of child rape

You're a lowlife, typical Shinner really  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 17, 2021, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Colm's still working on stopping Brexit, I think.

Apparently him and Martina Anderson. Shes bringing the bin lids

Colum Eastwood Social Democratic & Labour Party
26,881

Elisha McCallion Sinn Féin
9,771

Majority 17110

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 01:28:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 17, 2021, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Colm's still working on stopping Brexit, I think.

Apparently him and Martina Anderson. Shes bringing the bin lids

Colum Eastwood Social Democratic & Labour Party
26,881

Elisha McCallion Sinn Féin
9,771

Majority 17110
The people have no right to do wrong

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 03:01:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead
Is Angelo running?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 03:01:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead
Is Angelo running?
Is that why he's been so quiet? Or has he been banned? If so how did you not go down with him?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on June 17, 2021, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Next level shit  ;D ;D

The burn at SF making further tangible progress for the rights of Irish speakers in Ireland

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 17, 2021, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Next level shit  ;D ;D

The burn at SF making further tangible progress for the rights of Irish speakers in Ireland

Last time i checked the act had nothing to do with your right to learn the language, we all have free access to that and have had since the 1950s. "oh i wish i could have learnt the language"

Bullshit you were too busy watching Man Utd
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 03:43:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 17, 2021, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Colm's still working on stopping Brexit, I think.

Apparently him and Martina Anderson. Shes bringing the bin lids
Who? The Aontu crowd? ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:58:00 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 03:43:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 17, 2021, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Colm's still working on stopping Brexit, I think.

Apparently him and Martina Anderson. Shes bringing the bin lids
Who? The Aontu crowd? ;D

Lol, fastest growing party in Ireland ill have you know  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on June 17, 2021, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 17, 2021, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Next level shit  ;D ;D

The burn at SF making further tangible progress for the rights of Irish speakers in Ireland

Last time i checked the act had nothing to do with your right to learn the language, we all have free access to that and have had since the 1950s. "oh i wish i could have learnt the language"

Bullshit you were too busy watching Man Utd

;D ;D ;D

Oh go on then... Uppa Red Devils and errrm the Ra too n Celtic n Gerry n Bucky n fegs n flegs.

Pure scunnered you are  :-[
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 17, 2021, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 17, 2021, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Next level shit  ;D ;D

The burn at SF making further tangible progress for the rights of Irish speakers in Ireland

Last time i checked the act had nothing to do with your right to learn the language, we all have free access to that and have had since the 1950s. "oh i wish i could have learnt the language"

Bullshit you were too busy watching Man Utd

;D ;D ;D

Oh go on then... Uppa Red Devils and errrm the Ra too n Celtic n Gerry n Bucky n fegs n flegs.

Pure scunnered you are  :-[

Not sure what you are saying but sounds good anyhow.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Akin to arguing SF had no place campaigning for equal marriage as not enough of their members are gay.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 06:00:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Shall I add language snob to your list of horrible attributes? Pretty pathetic stuff even from you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 17, 2021, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Akin to arguing SF had no place campaigning for equal marriage as not enough of their members are gay.


Nail. On. The. Head.

Ridiculous take from Fear. Are you Jim Allister in disguise?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:23:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 17, 2021, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Akin to arguing SF had no place campaigning for equal marriage as not enough of their members are gay.


Nail. On. The. Head.

Ridiculous take from Fear. Are you Jim Allister in disguise?

You don't choose to be gay

You do choose not to learn your native tongue

The irony of you béarlóirí not able to respond in Irish. Embarrassing. Live it . Do it . Don't spin it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 06:00:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Shall I add language snob to your list of horrible attributes? Pretty pathetic stuff even from you.

What's a language snob. Are you saying I'm a snob for having the audacity to speak my native tongue
And what are these other horrible attributes you speak of. Usually you that fires the personal slurs .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 06:00:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Shall I add language snob to your list of horrible attributes? Pretty pathetic stuff even from you.

What's a language snob. Are you saying I'm a snob for having the audacity to speak my native tongue
And what are these other horrible attributes you speak of. Usually you that fires the personal slurs .

It's someone that looks down their nose at people who don't speak a language fluently. You asked for names of 20 fluent irish speakers in SF. Snob.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:34:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 06:00:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Shall I add language snob to your list of horrible attributes? Pretty pathetic stuff even from you.

What's a language snob. Are you saying I'm a snob for having the audacity to speak my native tongue
And what are these other horrible attributes you speak of. Usually you that fires the personal slurs .

It's someone that looks down their nose at people who don't speak a language fluently. You asked for names of 20 fluent irish speakers in SF. Snob.

And? PLease dont pretend that most shinners dont give 2 flying fecks about the language or else they would be fluent. PLease dont insult us all. Its a political football to most(not all) of them. A lot dont even send their wains to IME
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 09:43:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:23:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 17, 2021, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Akin to arguing SF had no place campaigning for equal marriage as not enough of their members are gay.


Nail. On. The. Head.

Ridiculous take from Fear. Are you Jim Allister in disguise?

You don't choose to be gay

You do choose not to learn your native tongue

The irony of you béarlóirí not able to respond in Irish. Embarrassing. Live it . Do it . Don't spin it

Nothing to do with people not choosing to be gay. The basis of your argument is that SF shouldn't be trying to legislate for the Irish language because you don't believe enough of them speak Irish. The argument of a simpleton which is absolutely no different to saying "Sinn Féin don't care about equal marriage! Sure can anyone even name 20 of them that are gay?"

You are so utterly blinded by bitterness that you don't see how ridiculous you come across.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 09:43:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:23:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 17, 2021, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Akin to arguing SF had no place campaigning for equal marriage as not enough of their members are gay.


Nail. On. The. Head.

Ridiculous take from Fear. Are you Jim Allister in disguise?

You don't choose to be gay

You do choose not to learn your native tongue

The irony of you béarlóirí not able to respond in Irish. Embarrassing. Live it . Do it . Don't spin it

Nothing to do with people not choosing to be gay. The basis of your argument is that SF shouldn't be trying to legislate for the Irish language because you don't believe enough of them speak Irish. The argument of a simpleton which is absolutely no different to saying "Sinn Féin don't care about equal marriage! Sure can anyone even name 20 of them that are gay?"

You are so utterly blinded by bitterness that you don't see how ridiculous you come across.

Simpleton. Im tired handing you your arse on a plate on here last couple of years. Whats that make you? if you care about the language ACT! Isnt that the moto?

The ONLY WAY AND I MEAN ONLY WAY to keep a language alive is by speaking it not pushing through pretty toothless laws that mean more to them in votes than anything else.

SF have spent years and I mean years wrecking the IME system here in Derry City
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:52:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:34:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 06:00:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Shall I add language snob to your list of horrible attributes? Pretty pathetic stuff even from you.

What's a language snob. Are you saying I'm a snob for having the audacity to speak my native tongue
And what are these other horrible attributes you speak of. Usually you that fires the personal slurs .

It's someone that looks down their nose at people who don't speak a language fluently. You asked for names of 20 fluent irish speakers in SF. Snob.

And? PLease dont pretend that most shinners dont give 2 flying fecks about the language or else they would be fluent. PLease dont insult us all. Its a political football to most(not all) of them. A lot dont even send their wains to IME

And what? You asked me what a language snob is and I told you. For a language snob you are pretty poor at comprehending language. You are probably in a bad mood since the northern party your beliefs have most in common with implode.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 09:56:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 09:43:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:23:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 17, 2021, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Akin to arguing SF had no place campaigning for equal marriage as not enough of their members are gay.


Nail. On. The. Head.

Ridiculous take from Fear. Are you Jim Allister in disguise?

You don't choose to be gay

You do choose not to learn your native tongue

The irony of you béarlóirí not able to respond in Irish. Embarrassing. Live it . Do it . Don't spin it

Nothing to do with people not choosing to be gay. The basis of your argument is that SF shouldn't be trying to legislate for the Irish language because you don't believe enough of them speak Irish. The argument of a simpleton which is absolutely no different to saying "Sinn Féin don't care about equal marriage! Sure can anyone even name 20 of them that are gay?"

You are so utterly blinded by bitterness that you don't see how ridiculous you come across.

Simpleton. Im tired handing you your arse on a plate on here last couple of years. Whats that make you? if you care about the language ACT! Isnt that the moto?

The ONLY WAY AND I MEAN ONLY WAY to keep a language alive is by speaking it not pushing through pretty toothless laws that mean more to them in votes than anything else.

SF have spent years and I mean years wrecking the IME system here in Derry City

You're tired handing me my ass on a plate? That coming from the fella who is just one day has claimed:

- That last nights announcement of a language act came about not because SF threatened to not nominate a Deputy First Minister and then asked Westminster to legislate for it, but actually happened because "all the parties put pressure on for it".

- That only a party with a minimum of 20 Irish speakers should be allowed to campaign for language legislation.

Away and grow up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 10:05:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:23:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 17, 2021, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Akin to arguing SF had no place campaigning for equal marriage as not enough of their members are gay.


Nail. On. The. Head.

Ridiculous take from Fear. Are you Jim Allister in disguise?

You don't choose to be gay

You do choose not to learn your native tongue

The irony of you béarlóirí not able to respond in Irish. Embarrassing. Live it . Do it . Don't spin it
That's a shocking attitude from you there lad in fairness, and I'm someone who have my kids at an Irish school, and Im also trying to immerse myself in the language as best I can. All I can say is I'm glad I didn't come across anyone with that attitude, I know it's a fear for some. You are responding in English having a pop at boys not being able to respond to you in Irish??? All in some way to shoe horn a dig at the shinners in??It's absolutely pathetic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on June 17, 2021, 10:13:03 PM
Up the ILA
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:14:26 PM
Fear is probably one of those Gaeilge snobs who ridicules people who aren't fluent or mispronounce.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:19:22 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 10:05:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 07:23:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 17, 2021, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Don't see the big deal with the Brits stepping in. It highlights further proof if needed how unworkable Stormont is. Ghandi could be in government with the DUP and it would be no different. The reality is, a party of reactionary fanatics are incapable of governing this dysfunctional little entity. Who'd have thunk it. Hilarious the obsessed stoops on here are raging. ILA is and always was an afterthought for your party - something you were more than willing to compromise on.

Im no stoop anyhow but I can tell you this as someone who has immersed himself in the language that SF have no interest in the language except as a means to whip others politically, and for your knowledge SDLP have always been broadly on the same line as SF on te language-they have better speakers of it anyhow lol

So all the Sinn Fein people I see on TV who have learned Irish (and all the hours that went with it) just did it for a bit of spite? Jaysus thats great to know, I better go and vote for some backward right wing anti abortion religious fundamentalist gobshite instead

Give us a few examples there of fluent speakers in SF- aim for 20, big party after all

Akin to arguing SF had no place campaigning for equal marriage as not enough of their members are gay.


Nail. On. The. Head.

Ridiculous take from Fear. Are you Jim Allister in disguise?

You don't choose to be gay

You do choose not to learn your native tongue

The irony of you béarlóirí not able to respond in Irish. Embarrassing. Live it . Do it . Don't spin it
That's a shocking attitude from you there lad in fairness, and I'm someone who have my kids at an Irish school, and Im also trying to immerse myself in the language as best I can. All I can say is I'm glad I didn't come across anyone with that attitude, I know it's a fear for some. You are responding in English having a pop at boys not being able to respond to you in Irish??? All in some way to shoe horn a dig at the shinners in??It's absolutely pathetic.


Fair play to you. You don't fall into the category.
Gone ask your local Shinner there in Ballyarnett what she has done for bunscoil Cholmcille if you see her. Still no canteen , what is it since 1983
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:23:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:14:26 PM
Fear is probably one of those Gaeilge snobs who ridicules people who aren't fluent or mispronounce.

No I'm a dying breed. Someone who had zero Irish, learnt it, speak it, send all my wains to IME. Stood in the pishing rain and snow in the 80s collecting for the language when nobody have 2 shites bar a few concerned parents and academics. SF were nowhere to be seen them bar ridiculing prionais o Mianáin and trying to wreck all around them .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 10:26:18 PM
Tell me this, why are all the wanes being asked by their teachers to wear red in to school tomorrow to support the ILA, if such meaningless thing? Is that some sort of SF plot? Obviously means alot to some people heavily involved in the language.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 10:30:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:23:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:14:26 PM
Fear is probably one of those Gaeilge snobs who ridicules people who aren't fluent or mispronounce.

No I'm a dying breed. Someone who had zero Irish, learnt it, speak it, send all my wains to IME. Stood in the pishing rain and snow in the 80s collecting for the language when nobody have 2 shites bar a few concerned parents and academics. SF were nowhere to be seen them bar ridiculing prionais o Mianáin and trying to wreck all around them .

Yet when they bring about something monumental now you shout them down. It's you that is letting your bitterness rule over logic.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 10:26:18 PM
Tell me this, why are all the wanes being asked by their teachers to wear red in to school tomorrow to support the ILA, if such meaningless thing? Is that some sort of SF plot? Obviously means alot to some people heavily involved in the language.

I never said it was meaningless, relatively toothless.
Anyhow wains need to wear 2 red jumpers each as they are all  freezing in fecking huts 40 years on. That's my point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 10:41:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 10:26:18 PM
Tell me this, why are all the wanes being asked by their teachers to wear red in to school tomorrow to support the ILA, if such meaningless thing? Is that some sort of SF plot? Obviously means alot to some people heavily involved in the language.

I never said it was meaningless, relatively toothless.
Anyhow wains need to wear 2 red jumpers each as they are all  freezing in fecking huts 40 years on. That's my point.
I don't believe it's relatively toothless. Surely it would make availing of funding for renovation of said huts and canteen a lot easier? No?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:56:28 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 10:41:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 17, 2021, 10:26:18 PM
Tell me this, why are all the wanes being asked by their teachers to wear red in to school tomorrow to support the ILA, if such meaningless thing? Is that some sort of SF plot? Obviously means alot to some people heavily involved in the language.

I never said it was meaningless, relatively toothless.
Anyhow wains need to wear 2 red jumpers each as they are all  freezing in fecking huts 40 years on. That's my point.
I don't believe it's relatively toothless. Surely it would make availing of funding for renovation of said huts and canteen a lot easier? No?

I don't think it has any connection to capital building or infrastructure
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 03:56:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

You've had SDLP MPs for how many years? If your tea got cold you'd blame SF you absolute bore.

I wish you could see the absolute bitterness, silliness and sheer snobbery emanating from your posts in the last day. When a succession of people are trying to all tell you the same thing about your mentality....well... they can't all be wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 06:34:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 03:56:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

You've had SDLP MPs for how many years? If your tea got cold you'd blame SF you absolute bore.

I wish you could see the absolute bitterness, silliness and sheer snobbery emanating from your posts in the last day. When a succession of people are trying to all tell you the same thing about your mentality....well... they can't all be wrong.

It has nothing to do with MPs.

sF decided to split away from the first school to form another because they couldn't get full control of the first , then unbelievably approved a third when everyone knew it wasn't sustainable. We now have the very sad situation where the numbers in the 3 combined are no bigger than when we had 1 and because each don't meet the numbers threshold they can't get major capital. I know this case inside out . . Sinn fein caused this by 2, blunders,they approved the third school to spite the dup who had previously not approved it on black and White Sustainability data. Political fundamentalism caused the first split. They wanted a school where they controlled board and political ethos - they wanted mini Shinners indoctrinated via school.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 18, 2021, 07:41:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:23:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:14:26 PM
Fear is probably one of those Gaeilge snobs who ridicules people who aren't fluent or mispronounce.

No I'm a dying breed. Someone who had zero Irish, learnt it, speak it, send all my wains to IME. Stood in the pishing rain and snow in the 80s collecting for the language when nobody have 2 shites bar a few concerned parents and academics. SF were nowhere to be seen them bar ridiculing prionais o Mianáin and trying to wreck all around them .
Did Gerry Adams shag your wife/ma? Obsessed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 08:28:40 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 18, 2021, 07:41:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:23:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 17, 2021, 10:14:26 PM
Fear is probably one of those Gaeilge snobs who ridicules people who aren't fluent or mispronounce.

No I'm a dying breed. Someone who had zero Irish, learnt it, speak it, send all my wains to IME. Stood in the pishing rain and snow in the 80s collecting for the language when nobody have 2 shites bar a few concerned parents and academics. SF were nowhere to be seen them bar ridiculing prionais o Mianáin and trying to wreck all around them .
Did Gerry Adams shag your wife/ma? Obsessed.

Disgusting. But what do you expect.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 08:43:35 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 06:34:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 03:56:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

You've had SDLP MPs for how many years? If your tea got cold you'd blame SF you absolute bore.

I wish you could see the absolute bitterness, silliness and sheer snobbery emanating from your posts in the last day. When a succession of people are trying to all tell you the same thing about your mentality....well... they can't all be wrong.

It has nothing to do with MPs.

sF decided to split away from the first school to form another because they couldn't get full control of the first , then unbelievably approved a third when everyone knew it wasn't sustainable. We now have the very sad situation where the numbers in the 3 combined are no bigger than when we had 1 and because each don't meet the numbers threshold they can't get major capital. I know this case inside out . . Sinn fein caused this by 2, blunders,they approved the third school to spite the dup who had previously not approved it on black and White Sustainability data. Political fundamentalism caused the first split. They wanted a school where they controlled board and political ethos - they wanted mini Shinners indoctrinated via school.

Of course you know it inside out. Sure we all know that you know everything that's happening, past, present and future, in Derry. You never fail to remind us.  The problem is you expose your claims as utter waffle far too often.

Do I need to remind you (and everyone else) about your little gem around a book of signatures in a Derry SF office? I was fairly astonished in fairness about how much detail you know about this book given that you are hardly someone who frequents SF offices very often.

Like I say, you're just a bitter little spoofer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 08:47:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 08:43:35 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 06:34:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 03:56:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

You've had SDLP MPs for how many years? If your tea got cold you'd blame SF you absolute bore.

I wish you could see the absolute bitterness, silliness and sheer snobbery emanating from your posts in the last day. When a succession of people are trying to all tell you the same thing about your mentality....well... they can't all be wrong.

It has nothing to do with MPs.

sF decided to split away from the first school to form another because they couldn't get full control of the first , then unbelievably approved a third when everyone knew it wasn't sustainable. We now have the very sad situation where the numbers in the 3 combined are no bigger than when we had 1 and because each don't meet the numbers threshold they can't get major capital. I know this case inside out . . Sinn fein caused this by 2, blunders,they approved the third school to spite the dup who had previously not approved it on black and White Sustainability data. Political fundamentalism caused the first split. They wanted a school where they controlled board and political ethos - they wanted mini Shinners indoctrinated via school.

Of course you know it inside out. Sure we all know that you know everything that's happening, past, present and future, in Derry. You never fail to remind us.  The problem is you expose your claims as utter waffle far too often.

Do I need to remind you (and everyone else) about your little gem around a book of signatures in a Derry SF office? I was fairly astonished in fairness about how much detail you know about this book given that you are hardly someone who frequents SF offices very often.

Like I say, you're just a bitter little spoofer.

Really that's it? Lol.
You do realise ive family in the book.. I said that at the time. And it wasn't signatures , keep up . What was it you called me ? Simpleton ? Give some real examples of waffle . I can only remember once where my facts were wrong . Not bad to be honest.

Next subject . Ciste infheistíochta na Gaeilge . Discuss
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 18, 2021, 09:45:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football

;D

Shinners don't take their seats in WM, yet have more leverage than Colum and Claire who once again were caught on the hop..

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Like what you've been doing for the last 24 hrs?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 09:50:31 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 08:47:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 08:43:35 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 06:34:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 03:56:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

You've had SDLP MPs for how many years? If your tea got cold you'd blame SF you absolute bore.

I wish you could see the absolute bitterness, silliness and sheer snobbery emanating from your posts in the last day. When a succession of people are trying to all tell you the same thing about your mentality....well... they can't all be wrong.

It has nothing to do with MPs.

sF decided to split away from the first school to form another because they couldn't get full control of the first , then unbelievably approved a third when everyone knew it wasn't sustainable. We now have the very sad situation where the numbers in the 3 combined are no bigger than when we had 1 and because each don't meet the numbers threshold they can't get major capital. I know this case inside out . . Sinn fein caused this by 2, blunders,they approved the third school to spite the dup who had previously not approved it on black and White Sustainability data. Political fundamentalism caused the first split. They wanted a school where they controlled board and political ethos - they wanted mini Shinners indoctrinated via school.

Of course you know it inside out. Sure we all know that you know everything that's happening, past, present and future, in Derry. You never fail to remind us.  The problem is you expose your claims as utter waffle far too often.

Do I need to remind you (and everyone else) about your little gem around a book of signatures in a Derry SF office? I was fairly astonished in fairness about how much detail you know about this book given that you are hardly someone who frequents SF offices very often.

Like I say, you're just a bitter little spoofer.

Really that's it? Lol.
You do realise ive family in the book.. I said that at the time. And it wasn't signatures , keep up . What was it you called me ? Simpleton ? Give some real examples of waffle . I can only remember once where my facts were wrong . Not bad to be honest.

Next subject . Ciste infheistíochta na Gaeilge . Discuss

Real examples of waffle?lol You claimed the signatures in this book were of people who were involved to any level with the IRA and that this then represented an accurate barometer of support levels for the IRA during the troubles. All we have to do in order to accept that as a valid claim would be to assume:

- That everyone who supported the IRA or believed it was legitimate, must have then either joined it or provided assistance to it
- That every single one of those people in the region were happy to have their name in a book saying they were involved with the IRA and has their name recorded in the book.
- That even those politically opposed to SF set that aside to call into a SF office to sign names in a SF book.
- That everyone who joined/helped the IRA in the area is now dead, given that  you said familes are asked to sign it in the event of the person's death.
- That every one of the families invited to sign it, took up the invite.

Again, if you believe that this book is reliable evidence of the levels of IRA support among nationalists during the troubles, then that would mean each of the conditions above would have to be true.

We would also have to believe that you, a bitterly anti-SF individual, routinely call into a SF office so as to keep an up to date knowledge of who's names are in the book.

Its up there with yesterday's claim that the British Governments decision to legislate for a Language Act had nothing to do with SF threatening to not nominate a Dep First Minister and asking the Sec of State to take this action, but rather that it actually happened because all the parties suddenly decided to put pressure on for it at the same time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 18, 2021, 09:45:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football

;D

Shinners don't take their seats in WM, yet have more leverage than Colum and Claire who once again were caught on the hop..

Really not sure why we are talking about SDLP . But I'm quite sure the Brits delivered language act based on a failure of local parties to push through previous agreement. All parties bar dup and UUP called for the legislation to be pushed through both here and at Westminster
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Like what you've been doing for the last 24 hrs?

Nope. I've no political leverage at all. I'm an ordinary citizen
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Of course it's a good thing.
Glad to hear you've changed your mind, and recognise that a Language Act is a "good thing". Only yesterday you dismissed it as unnecessary and as a:
"
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
pretty toothless law



Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow .
As a result of pressure from which party, not to nominate a Deputy First Minister? Typical. Happy to enjoy the success achieved by SF but still finds a way to attack SF for delivering it.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Pure gold! I suggest you read through your posts of the last few pages and how you have been using knowledge of the Irish language as a means to attack SF and anyone who supports them. Zero self-awareness!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Of course it's a good thing.
Glad to hear you've changed your mind, and recognise that a Language Act is a "good thing". Only yesterday you dismissed it as unnecessary and as a:
"
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
pretty toothless law



Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow .
As a result of pressure from which party, not to nominate a Deputy First Minister? Typical. Happy to enjoy the success achieved by SF but still finds a way to attack SF for delivering it.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Pure gold! I suggest you read through your posts of the last few pages and how you have been using knowledge of the Irish language as a means to attack SF and anyone who supports them. Zero self-awareness!!

What's thd saying

You can't handle the truth! Toothless and rejecting it aren't the same thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:21:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Of course it's a good thing.
Glad to hear you've changed your mind, and recognise that a Language Act is a "good thing". Only yesterday you dismissed it as unnecessary and as a:
"
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
pretty toothless law



Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow .
As a result of pressure from which party, not to nominate a Deputy First Minister? Typical. Happy to enjoy the success achieved by SF but still finds a way to attack SF for delivering it.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Pure gold! I suggest you read through your posts of the last few pages and how you have been using knowledge of the Irish language as a means to attack SF and anyone who supports them. Zero self-awareness!!

What's thd saying

You can't handle the truth! Toothless and rejecting it aren't the same thing.

Ok I apologise. I weirdly thought that when you described the Irish language act as unnecessary and "toothless", that that meant you didn't think it was a good thing. However did I get that idea.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:24:05 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:21:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Of course it's a good thing.
Glad to hear you've changed your mind, and recognise that a Language Act is a "good thing". Only yesterday you dismissed it as unnecessary and as a:
"
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
pretty toothless law



Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow .
As a result of pressure from which party, not to nominate a Deputy First Minister? Typical. Happy to enjoy the success achieved by SF but still finds a way to attack SF for delivering it.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Pure gold! I suggest you read through your posts of the last few pages and how you have been using knowledge of the Irish language as a means to attack SF and anyone who supports them. Zero self-awareness!!

What's thd saying

You can't handle the truth! Toothless and rejecting it aren't the same thing.

Ok I apologise. I weirdly thought that when you described the Irish language act as unnecessary and "toothless", that that meant you didn't think it was a good thing. However did I get that idea.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57516463

Leigh seo tú féin nuair atá an t-am agat
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Like what you've been doing for the last 24 hrs?

Nope. I've no political leverage at all. I'm an ordinary citizen
Your using it to try to snipe at SF. I'd call that political.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:51:20 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Like what you've been doing for the last 24 hrs?

Nope. I've no political leverage at all. I'm an ordinary citizen
Your using it to try to snipe at SF. I'd call that political.

Ach God love the wee critters, SF hardly able to defend themselves
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 18, 2021, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 18, 2021, 09:45:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football

;D

Shinners don't take their seats in WM, yet have more leverage than Colum and Claire who once again were caught on the hop..

Really not sure why we are talking about SDLP . But I'm quite sure the Brits delivered language act based on a failure of local parties to push through previous agreement. All parties bar dup and UUP called for the legislation to be pushed through both here and at Westminster

After Mary Lou had sounded out Lewis on it....

I like Hanna, Mallon and O'Toole but they always seem to be one step behind..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:24:05 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:21:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Of course it's a good thing.
Glad to hear you've changed your mind, and recognise that a Language Act is a "good thing". Only yesterday you dismissed it as unnecessary and as a:
"
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
pretty toothless law



Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow .
As a result of pressure from which party, not to nominate a Deputy First Minister? Typical. Happy to enjoy the success achieved by SF but still finds a way to attack SF for delivering it.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Pure gold! I suggest you read through your posts of the last few pages and how you have been using knowledge of the Irish language as a means to attack SF and anyone who supports them. Zero self-awareness!!

What's thd saying

You can't handle the truth! Toothless and rejecting it aren't the same thing.

Ok I apologise. I weirdly thought that when you described the Irish language act as unnecessary and "toothless", that that meant you didn't think it was a good thing. However did I get that idea.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57516463

Leigh seo tú féin nuair atá an t-am agat

Yeah I did read it. I can't find the bit where it explains how you can somehow view the act as unnecessary and "toothless" at the same time as viewing it as "a good thing".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:58:58 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:24:05 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:21:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Of course it's a good thing.
Glad to hear you've changed your mind, and recognise that a Language Act is a "good thing". Only yesterday you dismissed it as unnecessary and as a:
"
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
pretty toothless law



Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow .
As a result of pressure from which party, not to nominate a Deputy First Minister? Typical. Happy to enjoy the success achieved by SF but still finds a way to attack SF for delivering it.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Pure gold! I suggest you read through your posts of the last few pages and how you have been using knowledge of the Irish language as a means to attack SF and anyone who supports them. Zero self-awareness!!

What's thd saying

You can't handle the truth! Toothless and rejecting it aren't the same thing.

Ok I apologise. I weirdly thought that when you described the Irish language act as unnecessary and "toothless", that that meant you didn't think it was a good thing. However did I get that idea.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57516463

Leigh seo tú féin nuair atá an t-am agat

Yeah I did read it. I can't find the bit where it explains how you can somehow view the act as unnecessary and "toothless" at the same time as viewing it as "a good thing".

No capital. No extensive job opportunities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:51:20 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Like what you've been doing for the last 24 hrs?

Nope. I've no political leverage at all. I'm an ordinary citizen
Your using it to try to snipe at SF. I'd call that political.

Ach God love the wee critters, SF hardly able to defend themselves

I don't believe SF will be one bit worried by your posts. But it's good you admit you were using the ILA as a political football. Glad that's cleared up.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 11:28:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:51:20 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Like what you've been doing for the last 24 hrs?

Nope. I've no political leverage at all. I'm an ordinary citizen
Your using it to try to snipe at SF. I'd call that political.

Ach God love the wee critters, SF hardly able to defend themselves

I don't believe SF will be one bit worried by your posts. But it's good you admit you were using the ILA as a political football. Glad that's cleared up.
Oh they are worried .

There's more than me in Derry. Hence the clear out.  You know that clear out that I predicted 2 years before it happened. But sure apparently I'm a simpleton waffler whose ma was shagged by Gerry Adams
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 12:06:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:58:58 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:24:05 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:21:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Of course it's a good thing.
Glad to hear you've changed your mind, and recognise that a Language Act is a "good thing". Only yesterday you dismissed it as unnecessary and as a:
"
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
pretty toothless law



Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow .
As a result of pressure from which party, not to nominate a Deputy First Minister? Typical. Happy to enjoy the success achieved by SF but still finds a way to attack SF for delivering it.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Pure gold! I suggest you read through your posts of the last few pages and how you have been using knowledge of the Irish language as a means to attack SF and anyone who supports them. Zero self-awareness!!

What's thd saying

You can't handle the truth! Toothless and rejecting it aren't the same thing.

Ok I apologise. I weirdly thought that when you described the Irish language act as unnecessary and "toothless", that that meant you didn't think it was a good thing. However did I get that idea.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57516463

Leigh seo tú féin nuair atá an t-am agat

Yeah I did read it. I can't find the bit where it explains how you can somehow view the act as unnecessary and "toothless" at the same time as viewing it as "a good thing".

No capital. No extensive job opportunities.

So it...isn't....a good thing again? Hard to keep up with your u-turns here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 12:18:44 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 12:06:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:58:58 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:24:05 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 10:21:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 18, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Of course it's a good thing.
Glad to hear you've changed your mind, and recognise that a Language Act is a "good thing". Only yesterday you dismissed it as unnecessary and as a:
"
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
pretty toothless law



Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow .
As a result of pressure from which party, not to nominate a Deputy First Minister? Typical. Happy to enjoy the success achieved by SF but still finds a way to attack SF for delivering it.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Pure gold! I suggest you read through your posts of the last few pages and how you have been using knowledge of the Irish language as a means to attack SF and anyone who supports them. Zero self-awareness!!

What's thd saying

You can't handle the truth! Toothless and rejecting it aren't the same thing.

Ok I apologise. I weirdly thought that when you described the Irish language act as unnecessary and "toothless", that that meant you didn't think it was a good thing. However did I get that idea.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57516463

Leigh seo tú féin nuair atá an t-am agat

Yeah I did read it. I can't find the bit where it explains how you can somehow view the act as unnecessary and "toothless" at the same time as viewing it as "a good thing".

No capital. No extensive job opportunities.

So it...isn't....a good thing again? Hard to keep up with your u-turns here.

You sooo dumb
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 12:25:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 11:28:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:51:20 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Like what you've been doing for the last 24 hrs?

Nope. I've no political leverage at all. I'm an ordinary citizen
Your using it to try to snipe at SF. I'd call that political.

Ach God love the wee critters, SF hardly able to defend themselves

I don't believe SF will be one bit worried by your posts. But it's good you admit you were using the ILA as a political football. Glad that's cleared up.
Oh they are worried .

There's more than me in Derry. Hence the clear out.  You know that clear out that I predicted 2 years before it happened. But sure apparently I'm a simpleton waffler whose ma was shagged by Gerry Adams

Sinn Fein meeting 18/6/21

Agenda (in order of importance)

FBNS Posts on Forum
DUP implosion
ILA
FM/DFM strategy
NDNA
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 12:31:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 12:25:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 11:28:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 10:51:20 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 18, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 18, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 18, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
For those that don't know we have an IME school in the heart of Shantallow , second oldest in North 1983 .

They have no canteen ,just huts , no permanent classrooms, no play hall. SF are a big reason for this.

So SF decide what schools get upgraded I presume in the 6 counties and its as simple as that. There are no other criteria that must be met? Even if your school is hard done by (and I am not doubting it, plenty of schools all around the island are hard done by and are in unacceptable condition), why would you be so against the ILA that it looked like they would finally get over the line. Surely that would help not hinder. You have a track record of bitter resentfullness against SF so the only thing I can conclude is that you are angry at "who" got the deal done rather than the deal itself. I am sure you have heard the phrase about biting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm not angry at all

Of course it's a good thing. And it's was the Brits delivered it anyhow . But I get frustrated at the language being used as a political football
Like what you've been doing for the last 24 hrs?

Nope. I've no political leverage at all. I'm an ordinary citizen
Your using it to try to snipe at SF. I'd call that political.

Ach God love the wee critters, SF hardly able to defend themselves

I don't believe SF will be one bit worried by your posts. But it's good you admit you were using the ILA as a political football. Glad that's cleared up.
Oh they are worried .

There's more than me in Derry. Hence the clear out.  You know that clear out that I predicted 2 years before it happened. But sure apparently I'm a simpleton waffler whose ma was shagged by Gerry Adams

Sinn Fein meeting 18/6/21

Agenda (in order of importance)

FBNS Posts on Forum
DUP implosion
ILA
FM/DFM strategy
NDNA

Too right . Might gain them some perspective. You be cleaning the bogs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dire Ear on June 18, 2021, 12:42:36 PM
And


breathe..........
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Remind me why we are talking about SF v SDLP again?
SF don't compare themselves to the SDLP, but Eastwood's only mantra is a but SF. I should be an SDLP voter but I find their lack of a coherent strategy off putting. I am uncomfortable with some of SF's antics around commemorations, Storey funeral and constantly asking for a border poll. But I can't buy what the SDLP are selling either. With the exception of Mathew O'Toole and Nichola Mallon the SDLP are bereft of talent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 22, 2021, 11:01:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Remind me why we are talking about SF v SDLP again?
SF don't compare themselves to the SDLP, but Eastwood's only mantra is a but SF. I should be an SDLP voter but I find their lack of a coherent strategy off putting. I am uncomfortable with some of SF's antics around commemorations, Storey funeral and constantly asking for a border poll. But I can't buy what the SDLP are selling either. With the exception of Mathew O'Toole and Nichola Mallon the SDLP are bereft of talent.

Your views would appear to be in the minority.


Colum Eastwood Social Democratic & Labour Party
26,881

Elisha McCallion Sinn Féin
9,771

Majority 17110
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 22, 2021, 12:18:21 PM
SF 26
SDLP 12
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 22, 2021, 12:21:11 PM
SF - 224000
SDLP - 96000
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2021, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Remind me why we are talking about SF v SDLP again?
SF don't compare themselves to the SDLP, but Eastwood's only mantra is a but SF. I should be an SDLP voter but I find their lack of a coherent strategy off putting. I am uncomfortable with some of SF's antics around commemorations, Storey funeral and constantly asking for a border poll. But I can't buy what the SDLP are selling either. With the exception of Mathew O'Toole and Nichola Mallon the SDLP are bereft of talent.

What do you make of Hanna? I wouldn't be dissimilar from your views here either. I am not a SF fan but there is nowhere near enough about them for me either. I really don't think Eastwood is a good leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 22, 2021, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2021, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Remind me why we are talking about SF v SDLP again?
SF don't compare themselves to the SDLP, but Eastwood's only mantra is a but SF. I should be an SDLP voter but I find their lack of a coherent strategy off putting. I am uncomfortable with some of SF's antics around commemorations, Storey funeral and constantly asking for a border poll. But I can't buy what the SDLP are selling either. With the exception of Mathew O'Toole and Nichola Mallon the SDLP are bereft of talent.

What do you make of Hanna? I wouldn't be dissimilar from your views here either. I am not a SF fan but there is nowhere near enough about them for me either. I really don't think Eastwood is a good leader.

O'Toole is the leader in waiting but needs to serve a bit more time in the party first. He seems clued in.

Hanna has her moments but then goes and does something wild like "resigning" from the SDLP Assembly grouping and cosying up to FG members after Colum agrees some sort of thing or other with FF which no one really can make head nor tail of..

Colum is too busy chasing sound bites and other nonsense.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2021, 12:47:18 PM
Tbh he's full of shite.

You could be right on Hanna. Yet to make my mind up. I do like Mallon and hear nothing but good things on O'Toole. I would love the SDLP to be strong but they're just not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2021, 01:14:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2021, 12:47:18 PM
Tbh he's full of shite.

You could be right on Hanna. Yet to make my mind up. I do like Mallon and hear nothing but good things on O'Toole. I would love the SDLP to be strong but they're just not.

Which is even more scandalous when you look at sinn fein North of the border, Gildernew be only one that impresses me. The rest voted in on party ticket

Finucane has been an anti climax
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 22, 2021, 11:01:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Remind me why we are talking about SF v SDLP again?
SF don't compare themselves to the SDLP, but Eastwood's only mantra is a but SF. I should be an SDLP voter but I find their lack of a coherent strategy off putting. I am uncomfortable with some of SF's antics around commemorations, Storey funeral and constantly asking for a border poll. But I can't buy what the SDLP are selling either. With the exception of Mathew O'Toole and Nichola Mallon the SDLP are bereft of talent.

Your views would appear to be in the minority.


Colum Eastwood Social Democratic & Labour Party
26,881

Elisha McCallion Sinn Féin
9,771

Majority 17110
For fcuks sake I would get more votes than McCallion. Look at SF's votes in the round.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2021, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2021, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

The SDLP are constantly telling us that you need to take your seats in Westminster to have any influence. Yet SF have done "from the sidelines" what the SDLP have not been able to do form the green benches.

So:
Language Act deal achieved
DUP weakened
Abstentionist policy vindicated (again)
SDLP widely exposed as cynical opportunists

Not a bad few days work from those big bad shinners.

Apart from attempting to facilitate DUP intransigence on the Irish language, what else have the SDLP been doing these last few days?

Remind me why we are talking about SF v SDLP again?
SF don't compare themselves to the SDLP, but Eastwood's only mantra is a but SF. I should be an SDLP voter but I find their lack of a coherent strategy off putting. I am uncomfortable with some of SF's antics around commemorations, Storey funeral and constantly asking for a border poll. But I can't buy what the SDLP are selling either. With the exception of Mathew O'Toole and Nichola Mallon the SDLP are bereft of talent.

What do you make of Hanna? I wouldn't be dissimilar from your views here either. I am not a SF fan but there is nowhere near enough about them for me either. I really don't think Eastwood is a good leader.
At the start I thought Hanna was a breath of fresh air, but she got her ass handed to her on Nolan a couple of times over Brexit and floundered, so not sure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2021, 01:14:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2021, 12:47:18 PM
Tbh he's full of shite.

You could be right on Hanna. Yet to make my mind up. I do like Mallon and hear nothing but good things on O'Toole. I would love the SDLP to be strong but they're just not.

Which is even more scandalous when you look at sinn fein North of the border, Gildernew be only one that impresses me. The rest voted in on party ticket

Finucane has been an anti climax
I don't agree, I have had dealings with John O'Dowd, Conor Murphy and a few others, SF have a bit of depth and work hard locally. I have been frustrated with some SDLP MLA's when seeking assistance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on June 22, 2021, 04:19:37 PM
See SF South want to reduce Pension Age to 65 did they not vote to raise it here to 66 some time ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2021, 05:16:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2021, 01:14:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2021, 12:47:18 PM
Tbh he's full of shite.

You could be right on Hanna. Yet to make my mind up. I do like Mallon and hear nothing but good things on O'Toole. I would love the SDLP to be strong but they're just not.

Which is even more scandalous when you look at sinn fein North of the border, Gildernew be only one that impresses me. The rest voted in on party ticket

Finucane has been an anti climax
I don't agree, I have had dealings with John O'Dowd, Conor Murphy and a few others, SF have a bit of depth and work hard locally. I have been frustrated with some SDLP MLA's when seeking assistance.

Aye forgot about o dowd.hes good

Murphy was a disaster during procurement process at start of Covid and would be ate alive south of the border and carries too much baggage .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: shark on June 22, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
Quote from: skeog on June 22, 2021, 04:19:37 PM
See SF South want to reduce Pension Age to 65 did they not vote to raise it here to 66 some time ago.

Their manifesto for last general election proposed a massive overhaul to the existing pensions setup. They want to do away with the existing tax incentives, with the argument being that they mostly benefit those who are already the wealthiest. I'm sure that is true, as it makes sense that those with more disposable income will be able to put more aside. But acting like there is no impeding pensions cliff coming is dangerous in the extreme. In 30 years time more than 50% of the population will be over 65
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thebigfella on June 22, 2021, 05:27:25 PM
Quote from: shark on June 22, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
Quote from: skeog on June 22, 2021, 04:19:37 PM
See SF South want to reduce Pension Age to 65 did they not vote to raise it here to 66 some time ago.

Their manifesto for last general election proposed a massive overhaul to the existing pensions setup. They want to do away with the existing tax incentives, with the argument being that they mostly benefit those who are already the wealthiest. I'm sure that is true, as it makes sense that those with more disposable income will be able to put more aside. But acting like there is no impeding pensions cliff coming is dangerous in the extreme. In 30 years time more than 50% of the population will be over 65

Good luck with them on that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2021, 05:37:02 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on June 22, 2021, 05:27:25 PM
Quote from: shark on June 22, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
Quote from: skeog on June 22, 2021, 04:19:37 PM
See SF South want to reduce Pension Age to 65 did they not vote to raise it here to 66 some time ago.

Their manifesto for last general election proposed a massive overhaul to the existing pensions setup. They want to do away with the existing tax incentives, with the argument being that they mostly benefit those who are already the wealthiest. I'm sure that is true, as it makes sense that those with more disposable income will be able to put more aside. But acting like there is no impeding pensions cliff coming is dangerous in the extreme. In 30 years time more than 50% of the population will be over 65

Good luck with them on that.

They have very little experience of directing big spend in a jurisdiction that mostly depends on running its own economy. Up here it's hand outs, and even then they still managed to struggle . They are targeting nurses wages in the south while blocking it up here

You cant run with the fox and the hounds
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on June 22, 2021, 06:17:47 PM
Well it's just slightly different in that in Dublin you're spending your own wages, in Stormont you're spending your parents' pocket money
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 24, 2021, 10:24:48 AM
Add Dermot Nicholl and Deirdre Hargey to list of SF useless twats

Deirdre Hargey should be sacked
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2021, 10:52:53 AM
why? (genuine question)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JoG2 on June 24, 2021, 11:10:36 AM
Much sq meterage of tarmac do you have Fear??  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Denn Forever on June 24, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2021, 10:52:53 AM
why? (genuine question)

Is it because he though he should get some of the Covid help because he could no longer claim travel expenses.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-57593854
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2021, 11:24:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2021, 10:52:53 AM
why? (genuine question)

She was doling out COVID cash to sports organisations without taking looking at bank balances or cash reserves.

RCD was facing a £900k and received £1.5m which effectively gave it the same profit as it had been making the previous 3 years!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 24, 2021, 11:27:38 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 24, 2021, 11:24:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2021, 10:52:53 AM
why? (genuine question)

She was doling out COVID cash to sports organisations without taking looking at bank balances or cash reserves.

RCD was facing a £900k and received £1.5m which effectively gave it the same profit as it had been making the previous 3 years!

It was for loss of earnings so if RCD provided false evidence then they should be taken to task over it.

Cash reserves probably should have bearing but I know of self employed lads, bar owners getting covid grants and they weren't asked about their reserves either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on June 24, 2021, 12:30:35 PM
You can be sure that if there is any public money being spent that there is a large amount of chicanery going on and that a fairly large percentage of it will be spaffed uselessly. The circumstances of the pandemic only served to inflate that percentage of waste.

And if anyone ever again votes for that dick that complained about not getting travel expenses they deserve all they get as he is clearly a complete gouger of the lowest order.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 24, 2021, 01:03:53 PM
The report highlighted there was no requirement to consider reserves or bank balances held by clubs or organisations applying for funding.

Royal County Down Golf Club's grant was the largest paid under the scheme and was reported by the BBC's The Nolan Show.

"In this case we noted that the accounts, which were submitted with the application, showed that at December 2019 Royal County Down Golf Club had a very significant bank balance and a high level of reserves," the report found.

'Pace of deployment'
The grant also underwrote the club's profits from previous years, auditors said.

"While this underwriting of profits is likely to have been unintended, the fact it has happened was not an appropriate use of public spending," the report found.

"As an example of this, in the Royal County Down Golf Club application its accounts showed an average annual profit of £657,000 in the three years before Covid-19.

"In 2020-21 it projected a loss of £905,000 because of Covid-19.

"The grant payment made to it under SSF was £1,562,000, which not only paid for its projected loss for the year but returned it to the same profit level as in previous years".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 24, 2021, 01:04:55 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 24, 2021, 12:30:35 PM
You can be sure that if there is any public money being spent that there is a large amount of chicanery going on and that a fairly large percentage of it will be spaffed uselessly. The circumstances of the pandemic only served to inflate that percentage of waste.

And if anyone ever again votes for that dick that complained about not getting travel expenses they deserve all they get as he is clearly a complete gouger of the lowest order.

Oh hes just another weak link apparently, not representative at all of the party.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on June 24, 2021, 01:15:15 PM
Deirdre was good on radio this morning she is sorting out the PIPS appeals fiasco many waiting years to have their appeals heard.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 24, 2021, 01:25:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 24, 2021, 01:04:55 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 24, 2021, 12:30:35 PM
You can be sure that if there is any public money being spent that there is a large amount of chicanery going on and that a fairly large percentage of it will be spaffed uselessly. The circumstances of the pandemic only served to inflate that percentage of waste.

And if anyone ever again votes for that dick that complained about not getting travel expenses they deserve all they get as he is clearly a complete gouger of the lowest order.

Oh hes just another weak link apparently, not representative at all of the party.

Dermot Nicholl Sinn Fein cllr in Derry, in fairness he had others agreeing with him
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 24, 2021, 01:28:28 PM
Quote from: skeog on June 24, 2021, 01:15:15 PM
Deirdre was good on radio this morning she is sorting out the PIPS appeals fiasco many waiting years to have their appeals heard.

Sure SF introduced it  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2021, 01:34:13 PM
Expenses as part of income is just another example of the public sector mindset, similar to sick leave being an extension of annual leave and must be used ensure the maximum number of days off.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 24, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
I love Deirdre. Her ability not to see things that happened in a bar she was drinking in is the loyalty to Ireland we need.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 24, 2021, 04:03:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 24, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
I love Deirdre. Her ability not to see things that happened in a bar she was drinking in is the loyalty to Ireland we need.

The Tardis Toilet Event
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: smelmoth on June 24, 2021, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 24, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
I love Deirdre. Her ability not to see things that happened in a bar she was drinking in is the loyalty to Ireland we need.

I am with you. It's her steadfastness and single minded determination that I find so admirable.

Her absolute commitment to being one of 17 people in a small toilet cubicle was so resolute that she was undeterred by the commotion that goes with a man being stabbed to death in the next room.

We are all in safe hands
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kickham csc on June 24, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2021, 01:34:13 PM
Expenses as part of income is just another example of the public sector mindset, similar to sick leave being an extension of annual leave and must be used ensure the maximum number of days off.

As part of their job, they have to travel to meet general pubic at meetings or other informal meetings e.g. housing application issues at local sites) Travel payments are provided to enable them to do it while out of pocket.

If that funding was removed, would they be in the right to not travel or meet people to help them out.

I know this is an easy topic to take a pop shot at politicians, but this is a genuine question. Otherwise, would they be in their rights for a tax deduction on payments for petrol to enable them to carry out their pubic duties
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on June 24, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on June 24, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2021, 01:34:13 PM
Expenses as part of income is just another example of the public sector mindset, similar to sick leave being an extension of annual leave and must be used ensure the maximum number of days off.

As part of their job, they have to travel to meet general pubic at meetings or other informal meetings e.g. housing application issues at local sites) Travel payments are provided to enable them to do it while out of pocket.

If that funding was removed, would they be in the right to not travel or meet people to help them out.

I know this is an easy topic to take a pop shot at politicians, but this is a genuine question. Otherwise, would they be in their rights for a tax deduction on payments for petrol to enable them to carry out their pubic duties

Nonsense.  The expenses are just that.  To cover expenses.

If people are profiting from claiming these expenses, by default, they are either claiming too much or the rate of payment is too high.

Tony is bang on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 24, 2021, 05:55:56 PM
The expenses weren't removed, if they had to travel to undertake their councillor duties they would still have been paid, but because I assume that wasn't possible in a lot of cases and meetings had to happen remotely they are complaining their "income" is reduced  :-\
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 6th sam on June 24, 2021, 06:31:07 PM
I don't know the specifics and have no party political agenda.
I think this is another Nolan classic : DUP today, SF tomorrow, easy pickings.
Councillors are paid I think £15k. Some have other jobs, some don't .many have  low income.
My understanding is that Travel expenses are not just for diesel. They are presumably for wear and tear of car(tyres/servicing/hp) .
For someone on a low income , every penny counts. If they are keeping a vehicle they required for council work on the road without any reimbursement, I can understand how that can be challenging. Why should our councillors be out of pocket for their public service?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thebigfella on June 24, 2021, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on June 24, 2021, 06:31:07 PM
I don't know the specifics and have no party political agenda.
I think this is another Nolan classic : DUP today, SF tomorrow, easy pickings.
Councillors are paid I think £15k. Some have other jobs, some don't .many have  low income.
My understanding is that Travel expenses are not just for diesel. They are presumably for wear and tear of car(tyres/servicing/hp) .
For someone on a low income , every penny counts. If they are keeping a vehicle they required for council work on the road without any reimbursement, I can understand how that can be challenging. Why should our councillors be out of pocket for their public service?

It's a reimbursement for using their "own vehicle" and not for the upkeep/purchase of a vehicle for work. Otherwise its effectively a company car and they should be paying BIC
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 24, 2021, 07:48:58 PM
They shouid ask for a donation from the money others are apparently giving back to the party , you know "ordinary industrial wage " or just ask for a transfer into the community voluntary sector where they can bleed us all dry with even less scrutiny
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 25, 2021, 09:12:48 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 24, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on June 24, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2021, 01:34:13 PM
Expenses as part of income is just another example of the public sector mindset, similar to sick leave being an extension of annual leave and must be used ensure the maximum number of days off.

As part of their job, they have to travel to meet general pubic at meetings or other informal meetings e.g. housing application issues at local sites) Travel payments are provided to enable them to do it while out of pocket.

If that funding was removed, would they be in the right to not travel or meet people to help them out.

I know this is an easy topic to take a pop shot at politicians, but this is a genuine question. Otherwise, would they be in their rights for a tax deduction on payments for petrol to enable them to carry out their pubic duties

Nonsense.  The expenses are just that.  To cover expenses.

If people are profiting from claiming these expenses, by default, they are either claiming too much or the rate of payment is too high.

Tony is bang on.

Probably this but if and when its reduced you really shouldn't be complaining as if it was a pay cut. That is balls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on June 25, 2021, 03:38:25 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 25, 2021, 09:12:48 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 24, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on June 24, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2021, 01:34:13 PM
Expenses as part of income is just another example of the public sector mindset, similar to sick leave being an extension of annual leave and must be used ensure the maximum number of days off.

As part of their job, they have to travel to meet general pubic at meetings or other informal meetings e.g. housing application issues at local sites) Travel payments are provided to enable them to do it while out of pocket.

If that funding was removed, would they be in the right to not travel or meet people to help them out.

I know this is an easy topic to take a pop shot at politicians, but this is a genuine question. Otherwise, would they be in their rights for a tax deduction on payments for petrol to enable them to carry out their pubic duties

Nonsense.  The expenses are just that.  To cover expenses.

If people are profiting from claiming these expenses, by default, they are either claiming too much or the rate of payment is too high.

Tony is bang on.

Probably this but if and when its reduced you really shouldn't be complaining as if it was a pay cut. That is balls.

Yep.  Unbelievable that someone would say this out loud.

Brainless
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2021, 05:04:43 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-td-refuses-to-supportmary-lou-mcdonalds-condemnation-of-garda-killers-40607216.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on July 10, 2021, 02:04:48 PM
Good to see SF joining the mainstream parties wouldnt be knocking it.Sure many SF people have relatives who served and perished while under the UJ.Time to move on to the things that really matter.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 02:06:11 PM
Quote from: skeog on July 10, 2021, 02:04:48 PM
Good to see SF joining the mainstream parties wouldnt be knocking it.Sure many SF people have relatives who served and perished while under the UJ.Time to move on to the things that really matter.

Agreed but watch all the "stoop hecklers" on here change like the wind
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on July 10, 2021, 05:03:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks
I definitely don't think she should and I wouldn't go near it. Would you?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke

So essentially, you're criticising people for what you think they might do in the future? Take a day off ffs!!lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on July 12, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
Good interview by Michelle yesterday she said she was against all wars.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:31:49 PM
Quote from: skeog on July 12, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
Good interview by Michelle yesterday she said she was against all wars.

Doesnt everyone say that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke

So essentially, you're criticising people for what you think they might do in the future? Take a day off ffs!!lol

There is absolutely no difference in what Colum and Michelle did other than Colum tried to deliver an olive branch as mayor in a city where unoinists are in the minority and feel cut adrift(wrongly or rightly), he doesnt run around wearing a poppy any other year and thats my point if hes a stoop well so is Michelle.

You would really need to look at McGuinness and Adams etc meeting and greeting head of paras if you are going down that road
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke

So essentially, you're criticising people for what you think they might do in the future? Take a day off ffs!!lol

There is absolutely no difference in what Colum and Michelle did other than Colum tried to deliver an olive branch as mayor in a city where unoinists are in the minority and feel cut adrift(wrongly or rightly), he doesnt run around wearing a poppy any other year and thats my point if hes a stoop well so is Michelle.

You would really need to look at McGuinness and Adams etc meeting and greeting head of paras if you are going down that road

So there's no difference between wearing a poppy (a fundraiser for retired British soldiers) and not wearing one?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/mcs/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

You've an awful chip on your shoulder and it's not doing you any favours. When you start attacking SF for things you reckon their supporters might sometime do at some non-specifi point in the future, then you need to just step away form the keyboard and go for a walk.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke

So essentially, you're criticising people for what you think they might do in the future? Take a day off ffs!!lol

There is absolutely no difference in what Colum and Michelle did other than Colum tried to deliver an olive branch as mayor in a city where unoinists are in the minority and feel cut adrift(wrongly or rightly), he doesnt run around wearing a poppy any other year and thats my point if hes a stoop well so is Michelle.

You would really need to look at McGuinness and Adams etc meeting and greeting head of paras if you are going down that road

So there's no difference between wearing a poppy (a fundraiser for retired British soldiers) and not wearing one?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/mcs/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

You've an awful chip on your shoulder and it's not doing you any favours. When you start attacking SF for things you reckon their supporters might sometime do at some non-specifi point in the future, then you need to just step away form the keyboard and go for a walk.

Both were done as acts of reconciliation and leadership, I actually support both which is my point, no point calling people stoops is there? Its not like they wear them every year, id have difficulties with that, please stop with the hypocrisy.  just accept you are again years behind the curve

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke

So essentially, you're criticising people for what you think they might do in the future? Take a day off ffs!!lol

There is absolutely no difference in what Colum and Michelle did other than Colum tried to deliver an olive branch as mayor in a city where unoinists are in the minority and feel cut adrift(wrongly or rightly), he doesnt run around wearing a poppy any other year and thats my point if hes a stoop well so is Michelle.

You would really need to look at McGuinness and Adams etc meeting and greeting head of paras if you are going down that road

So there's no difference between wearing a poppy (a fundraiser for retired British soldiers) and not wearing one?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/mcs/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

You've an awful chip on your shoulder and it's not doing you any favours. When you start attacking SF for things you reckon their supporters might sometime do at some non-specifi point in the future, then you need to just step away form the keyboard and go for a walk.

Both were done as acts of reconciliation and leadership, I actually support both which is my point, no point calling people stoops is there? Its not like they wear them every year, id have difficulties with that, please stop with the hypocrisy.  just accept you are again years behind the curve
I'm a hypocrite because I think Eastwood/Ritchie were wrong to support a fundraiser for retired british soldiers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 11:34:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke

So essentially, you're criticising people for what you think they might do in the future? Take a day off ffs!!lol

There is absolutely no difference in what Colum and Michelle did other than Colum tried to deliver an olive branch as mayor in a city where unoinists are in the minority and feel cut adrift(wrongly or rightly), he doesnt run around wearing a poppy any other year and thats my point if hes a stoop well so is Michelle.

You would really need to look at McGuinness and Adams etc meeting and greeting head of paras if you are going down that road

So there's no difference between wearing a poppy (a fundraiser for retired British soldiers) and not wearing one?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/mcs/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

You've an awful chip on your shoulder and it's not doing you any favours. When you start attacking SF for things you reckon their supporters might sometime do at some non-specifi point in the future, then you need to just step away form the keyboard and go for a walk.

Both were done as acts of reconciliation and leadership, I actually support both which is my point, no point calling people stoops is there? Its not like they wear them every year, id have difficulties with that, please stop with the hypocrisy.  just accept you are again years behind the curve
I'm a hypocrite because I think Eastwood/Ritchie were wrong to support a fundraiser for retired british soldiers?

They must have donated 20p each . Wise up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 13, 2021, 09:23:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 11:34:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke

So essentially, you're criticising people for what you think they might do in the future? Take a day off ffs!!lol

There is absolutely no difference in what Colum and Michelle did other than Colum tried to deliver an olive branch as mayor in a city where unoinists are in the minority and feel cut adrift(wrongly or rightly), he doesnt run around wearing a poppy any other year and thats my point if hes a stoop well so is Michelle.

You would really need to look at McGuinness and Adams etc meeting and greeting head of paras if you are going down that road

So there's no difference between wearing a poppy (a fundraiser for retired British soldiers) and not wearing one?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/mcs/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

You've an awful chip on your shoulder and it's not doing you any favours. When you start attacking SF for things you reckon their supporters might sometime do at some non-specifi point in the future, then you need to just step away form the keyboard and go for a walk.

Both were done as acts of reconciliation and leadership, I actually support both which is my point, no point calling people stoops is there? Its not like they wear them every year, id have difficulties with that, please stop with the hypocrisy.  just accept you are again years behind the curve
I'm a hypocrite because I think Eastwood/Ritchie were wrong to support a fundraiser for retired british soldiers?

They must have donated 20p each . Wise up

Would you, as a Derryman, donate 20p to the retired soldiers who murdered 14 civil rights protesters on Bloody Sunday? Or would you sell your principles for 20p? Do you not think it would be possible for a nationalist politician to show outreach by attending these ceremonies and laying wreaths without having to wear a poppy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 13, 2021, 09:23:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 11:34:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke

So essentially, you're criticising people for what you think they might do in the future? Take a day off ffs!!lol

There is absolutely no difference in what Colum and Michelle did other than Colum tried to deliver an olive branch as mayor in a city where unoinists are in the minority and feel cut adrift(wrongly or rightly), he doesnt run around wearing a poppy any other year and thats my point if hes a stoop well so is Michelle.

You would really need to look at McGuinness and Adams etc meeting and greeting head of paras if you are going down that road

So there's no difference between wearing a poppy (a fundraiser for retired British soldiers) and not wearing one?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/mcs/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

You've an awful chip on your shoulder and it's not doing you any favours. When you start attacking SF for things you reckon their supporters might sometime do at some non-specifi point in the future, then you need to just step away form the keyboard and go for a walk.

Both were done as acts of reconciliation and leadership, I actually support both which is my point, no point calling people stoops is there? Its not like they wear them every year, id have difficulties with that, please stop with the hypocrisy.  just accept you are again years behind the curve
I'm a hypocrite because I think Eastwood/Ritchie were wrong to support a fundraiser for retired british soldiers?

They must have donated 20p each . Wise up

Would you, as a Derryman, donate 20p to the retired soldiers who murdered 14 civil rights protesters on Bloody Sunday? Or would you sell your principles for 20p? Do you not think it would be possible for a nationalist politician to show outreach by attending these ceremonies and laying wreaths without having to wear a poppy?

Personally no. But I'm not or wasn't mayor.
But I wouldn't as a Derry man be shaking prince Charles hand like Mc Guinness did. Far worse given his association to the paras.

I could start wearing poppy scarves and calling it Londonderry like Mary Lou maybe
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 13, 2021, 10:16:40 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 13, 2021, 09:23:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 11:34:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 12, 2021, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 12, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 10, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57784074.amp

Does this make Michelle a stoop?
The same Shinners on Twitter who were bombarding colum Eastwood are now lauding this as " leadership"

Robots with serious brass necks

Michelle laid a laurel wreath, and she didn't wear a poppy (an item sold in order to raise funds for ex-British soldiers from all conflicts, including those who "served" here).

Colum, meanwhile:
(https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/webimg/TUFZMTI2NjQxNTUy.jpg?crop=61:45,smart&width=800)

only matter of time and it will then be called "leadership" by all the Twitter weaklings boke boke boke

So essentially, you're criticising people for what you think they might do in the future? Take a day off ffs!!lol

There is absolutely no difference in what Colum and Michelle did other than Colum tried to deliver an olive branch as mayor in a city where unoinists are in the minority and feel cut adrift(wrongly or rightly), he doesnt run around wearing a poppy any other year and thats my point if hes a stoop well so is Michelle.

You would really need to look at McGuinness and Adams etc meeting and greeting head of paras if you are going down that road

So there's no difference between wearing a poppy (a fundraiser for retired British soldiers) and not wearing one?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/mcs/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

You've an awful chip on your shoulder and it's not doing you any favours. When you start attacking SF for things you reckon their supporters might sometime do at some non-specifi point in the future, then you need to just step away form the keyboard and go for a walk.

Both were done as acts of reconciliation and leadership, I actually support both which is my point, no point calling people stoops is there? Its not like they wear them every year, id have difficulties with that, please stop with the hypocrisy.  just accept you are again years behind the curve
I'm a hypocrite because I think Eastwood/Ritchie were wrong to support a fundraiser for retired british soldiers?

They must have donated 20p each . Wise up

Would you, as a Derryman, donate 20p to the retired soldiers who murdered 14 civil rights protesters on Bloody Sunday? Or would you sell your principles for 20p? Do you not think it would be possible for a nationalist politician to show outreach by attending these ceremonies and laying wreaths without having to wear a poppy?

Personally no. But I'm not or wasn't mayor.
But I wouldn't as a Derry man be shaking prince Charles hand like Mc Guinness did. Far worse given his association to the paras.

I could start wearing poppy scarves and calling it Londonderry like Mary Lou maybe
So what you're saying is that beacuse he was Mayor, it only counted as unionist outreach if he wore a poppy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 10:26:33 AM

[/quote]
So what you're saying is that because he was Mayor, it only counted as unionist outreach if he wore a poppy?
[/quote]

In a town where unionists are in a big minority I assume that was the thinking. It was a gesture i assume more than support for that organisation of for the BA

As a side not, there are 755 people on the memorial, over 50% were nationalist mostly from the poorer areas of city. I have relatives on there myself. Ive had relatives killed whilst serving in BA and killed or injured by the BA stretching from 1916-1972(none closer than cousins and most going back a while now), a reflection of our recent history.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 13, 2021, 10:36:25 AM

[/quote]
So what you're saying is that because he was Mayor, it only counted as unionist outreach if he wore a poppy?
[/quote]

In a town where unionists are in a big minority I assume that was the thinking. It was a gesture i assume more than support for that organisation of for the BA

As a side not, there are 755 people on the memorial, over 50% were nationalist mostly from the poorer areas of city. I have relatives on there myself. Ive had relatives killed whilst serving in BA and killed or injured by the BA stretching from 1916-1972(none closer than cousins and most going back a while now), a reflection of our recent history.
[/quote]

I'm not challenging their decision to lay wreaths. I'm questioning their decision to wear the poppy. You use the fact that it's in Derry as some sort of justification which is just the absolute height of warped thinking. If there's one town or city in Ireland where it might not be appropriate for nationalist leaders contribute in any way to a fundraiser for retired British soldiers, it would probably be Derry. Again I'll ask, do you think if Colum turned up to lay a wreath without wearing a poppy, that his attendance alone would not have been recgonised as an attempt at unionist outreach?? Of course it would ffs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 11:19:27 AM

[/quote]
So what you're saying is that because he was Mayor, it only counted as unionist outreach if he wore a poppy?
[/quote]

In a town where unionists are in a big minority I assume that was the thinking. It was a gesture i assume more than support for that organisation of for the BA

As a side not, there are 755 people on the memorial, over 50% were nationalist mostly from the poorer areas of city. I have relatives on there myself. Ive had relatives killed whilst serving in BA and killed or injured by the BA stretching from 1916-1972(none closer than cousins and most going back a while now), a reflection of our recent history.
[/quote]

I'm not challenging their decision to lay wreaths. I'm questioning their decision to wear the poppy. You use the fact that it's in Derry as some sort of justification which is just the absolute height of warped thinking. If there's one town or city in Ireland where it might not be appropriate for nationalist leaders contribute in any way to a fundraiser for retired British soldiers, it would probably be Derry. Again I'll ask, do you think if Colum turned up to lay a wreath without wearing a poppy, that his attendance alone would not have been recgonised as an attempt at unionist outreach?? Of course it would ffs.
[/quote]

You obviously dont understand Derry and how it has been used for many years as an example of how to treat a unionist minority, SF are also part of that drive along with SDLP.
Of course id prefer if he didnt wear it but its getting a wee bit rich from shinners, they are splitting all the money at a local level here with loyalists, all coming from the british purse, they had loyalist bands(sectarian thugs) on stage at the fleadh(SF pushed that), they pushed a tri-lingual policy as opposed to 2 language at council level(diluted irish language money) and they were the first to suggest attending the war memorial. On top of that Mary Lou called this place Londonderry wore a poppy scarf and Raymond McCartney has been dashing off to Dubaiwith Royal Navy Chief Petty Officer pals. And then there is McGuinness and Prince Charles

Come on. Really
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 13, 2021, 01:57:04 PM

[/quote]

You obviously dont understand Derry and how it has been used for many years as an example of how to treat a unionist minority, SF are also part of that drive along with SDLP.
Of course id prefer if he didnt wear it but its getting a wee bit rich from shinners, they are splitting all the money at a local level here with loyalists, all coming from the british purse, they had loyalist bands(sectarian thugs) on stage at the fleadh(SF pushed that), they pushed a tri-lingual policy as opposed to 2 language at council level(diluted irish language money) and they were the first to suggest attending the war memorial. On top of that Mary Lou called this place Londonderry wore a poppy scarf and Raymond McCartney has been dashing off to Dubaiwith Royal Navy Chief Petty Officer pals. And then there is McGuinness and Prince Charles

Come on. Really
[/quote]

So what it all boils down to is that Colum Eastwood wore a poppy, you think that on balance he shouldn't have, and so you are attacking SF. Again, take a day off!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 03:09:50 PM

[/quote]

You obviously dont understand Derry and how it has been used for many years as an example of how to treat a unionist minority, SF are also part of that drive along with SDLP.
Of course id prefer if he didnt wear it but its getting a wee bit rich from shinners, they are splitting all the money at a local level here with loyalists, all coming from the british purse, they had loyalist bands(sectarian thugs) on stage at the fleadh(SF pushed that), they pushed a tri-lingual policy as opposed to 2 language at council level(diluted irish language money) and they were the first to suggest attending the war memorial. On top of that Mary Lou called this place Londonderry wore a poppy scarf and Raymond McCartney has been dashing off to Dubaiwith Royal Navy Chief Petty Officer pals. And then there is McGuinness and Prince Charles

Come on. Really
[/quote]

So what it all boils down to is that Colum Eastwood wore a poppy, you think that on balance he shouldn't have, and so you are attacking SF. Again, take a day off!
[/quote]

No. Im calling you and others out for their hypocrisy. Stoops lol, who over mental of 16 even uses that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 13, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
Who over 16 quotes 15 posts and a photograph in one go FFS?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on July 13, 2021, 03:28:01 PM

[/quote]

You obviously dont understand Derry and how it has been used for many years as an example of how to treat a unionist minority, SF are also part of that drive along with SDLP.
Of course id prefer if he didnt wear it but its getting a wee bit rich from shinners, they are splitting all the money at a local level here with loyalists, all coming from the british purse, they had loyalist bands(sectarian thugs) on stage at the fleadh(SF pushed that), they pushed a tri-lingual policy as opposed to 2 language at council level(diluted irish language money) and they were the first to suggest attending the war memorial. On top of that Mary Lou called this place Londonderry wore a poppy scarf and Raymond McCartney has been dashing off to Dubaiwith Royal Navy Chief Petty Officer pals. And then there is McGuinness and Prince Charles

Come on. Really
[/quote]

So what it all boils down to is that Colum Eastwood wore a poppy, you think that on balance he shouldn't have, and so you are attacking SF. Again, take a day off!
[/quote]

No. Im calling you and others out for their hypocrisy. Stoops lol, who over mental of 16 even uses that
[/quote]

I haven't called him a stoop in this conversation, so that's one straw man argument. But at least that's in the here and now. By your own admission, your bringing up the topic was motivated by you taking issue with with something that hasn't actually happened as yet, and with something that you think some non-specific shinner might do at some non-specific point in the future. Obsessional.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 05:43:41 PM

[/quote]

You obviously dont understand Derry and how it has been used for many years as an example of how to treat a unionist minority, SF are also part of that drive along with SDLP.
Of course id prefer if he didnt wear it but its getting a wee bit rich from shinners, they are splitting all the money at a local level here with loyalists, all coming from the british purse, they had loyalist bands(sectarian thugs) on stage at the fleadh(SF pushed that), they pushed a tri-lingual policy as opposed to 2 language at council level(diluted irish language money) and they were the first to suggest attending the war memorial. On top of that Mary Lou called this place Londonderry wore a poppy scarf and Raymond McCartney has been dashing off to Dubaiwith Royal Navy Chief Petty Officer pals. And then there is McGuinness and Prince Charles

Come on. Really
[/quote]

So what it all boils down to is that Colum Eastwood wore a poppy, you think that on balance he shouldn't have, and so you are attacking SF. Again, take a day off!
[/quote]

No. Im calling you and others out for their hypocrisy. Stoops lol, who over mental of 16 even uses that
[/quote]

I haven't called him a stoop in this conversation, so that's one straw man argument. But at least that's in the here and now. By your own admission, your bringing up the topic was motivated by you taking issue with with something that hasn't actually happened as yet, and with something that you think some non-specific shinner might do at some non-specific point in the future. Obsessional.
[/quote]

In this conversation yeah , that will do
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 13, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
Who over 16 quotes 15 posts and a photograph in one go FFS?

You actually counted. Wow
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dire Ear on July 13, 2021, 06:36:30 PM
Hard not to notice,  or count,  in fairness
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 13, 2021, 07:54:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 13, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
Who over 16 quotes 15 posts and a photograph in one go FFS?

You actually counted. Wow
Tp be fair that is a brutal  it of quoting there. You'd get square eyes looking at it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on July 13, 2021, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 13, 2021, 07:54:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 13, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
Who over 16 quotes 15 posts and a photograph in one go FFS?

You actually counted. Wow
Tp be fair that is a brutal  it of quoting there. You'd get square eyes looking at it.

Tried a bit editing there, but failed...on to next page hopefully.

I'd love a feature where only one post can be quoted.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 09:58:57 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 13, 2021, 07:54:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 13, 2021, 05:44:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 13, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
Who over 16 quotes 15 posts and a photograph in one go FFS?

You actually counted. Wow
Tp be fair that is a brutal  it of quoting there. You'd get square eyes looking at it.

Slow day in the office, hanging from the 12th
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on July 14, 2021, 07:56:43 AM
Get them to install a mobile responsive theme when they are at it  :) Please.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 14, 2021, 10:22:20 AM
The problem is you cant reply directly without quoting. then when people stick graphics in it looks even worse
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 14, 2021, 12:55:10 PM
Of course you can reply without quoting, that is what the reply button is for! Perhaps you mean that you cannot easily reply quoting only the last reply.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 14, 2021, 01:11:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 14, 2021, 12:55:10 PM
Of course you can reply without quoting, that is what the reply button is for! Perhaps you mean that you cannot easily reply quoting only the last reply.

If there are more than 2 people involved however that doesnt work well,
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on July 14, 2021, 05:00:01 PM
On the mobile, I've always used

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?board=1.0;wap2

Works well in a crap connection and a side benefit is that you cannot quote posts.
There might be other settings like this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on July 14, 2021, 06:10:22 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on July 14, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on July 14, 2021, 07:56:43 AM
Get them to install a mobile responsive theme when they are at it  :) Please.
The Deep Blue theme is mobile responsive, that's mainly why I use it.

What do you know! Every day is a school day.

Never knew individual users could select their own theme. Always thought it was at a global level for the entire forum.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 14, 2021, 06:50:37 PM
The Sinn Fein thread has finally produced something useful information!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 14, 2021, 06:52:36 PM
Ah ffs why didn't anyone mention this mobile enabled view years ago. Could have saved my thumb joints from all the zooming.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 14, 2021, 07:18:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 14, 2021, 06:50:37 PM
The Sinn Fein thread has finally produced something useful information!

This has been my end game the whole time
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 14, 2021, 07:47:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 14, 2021, 07:18:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 14, 2021, 06:50:37 PM
The Sinn Fein thread has finally produced something useful information!

This has been my end game the whole time
Chapeau sir!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on August 11, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
I see lots of bashing on Twitter because SF marked the anniversary of the death of a hunger striker.

Will we see the same vitriol for this event?

https://twitter.com/jolenebuntinguk/status/1425428726792269826/photo/1

Quote
Protestant Teenager Killed Glen Hugh Branagh (16), a Protestant teenager, was killed in north Belfast when a pipe-bomb he was holding exploded prematurely.

[It was later confirmed that Branagh was a member of the (Ulster) Young Militants (YM), the youth wing of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). Members of YM were accused of killing a Protestant man, mistaken for a Catholic, during an attack on 31 March 2001.]

Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) officers stated that during a riot a youth, wearing a distinctive top and mask, was seen as he was about to throw a pipe-bomb at the security forces on North Queen Street; the bomb went off while he was still holding it. The crowd then called the police officers forward to give medical assistance. Although treated at the scene Branagh died later in hospital. Two other men were injured in the explosion.

[Loyalists claimed that the bomb had been thrown by Nationalists and that Branagh had picked the device up. This claim was denied by PSNI officers who said they saw quite clearly what had happened.]

Prior to this incident there had been serious rioting in the area between rival Protestant and Catholic residents. Later in the evening there were further disturbances and police fired 9 plastic baton rounds. A Catholic girl (14) was injured when she was hit in the stomach by a plastic bullet.

Catholic residents also claimed that a boy (11) and a teenager (17) were also hit by plastic bullets. Twenty-four police officers and two British soldiers were injured during the rioting. There were several shooting incidents in Belfast during the evening and in the early hours of Monday 12 November 2001. A gunman fired a shot from a car at four youths sitting in a bus shelter on the Antrim Road, north Belfast. There were reports that a gunman had fired a shot into the Clarendon Bar, Garmoyle Street in the Docks area of Belfast at about 10.00pm (2200GMT). There were a series of events across Northern Ireland to mark Remembrance Day. Among the wreaths laid at memorials were, for the first time, ones on behalf of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StephenC on August 12, 2021, 09:02:04 AM
What political party should the vitriol should be directed to?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on August 12, 2021, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: StephenC on August 12, 2021, 09:02:04 AM
What political party should the vitriol should be directed to?

The same parties that push poppies in your face every year. Believe it or not, the poppy fest is used to remember all unionist and loyalist deaths.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: hoynevalley on September 04, 2021, 09:34:43 AM
Should Coveney resign? Leo on the defence as usual. Surprised he not blaming the spinners. As usual government politics overshadowing the restrictions on lockdown.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40371848.html%3ftype=amp
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: hoynevalley on September 04, 2021, 11:48:13 AM
Data watchdog was not notified  Simon Coveney claim his phone had been hacked. Something not adding up here.  🤔
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 04, 2021, 01:40:59 PM
wrong thread mucker
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 09, 2021, 07:25:20 AM
Wow, Derry SF really in bother. Ciara Ferguson. She apparently never had any connection to Sinn Féin in her role in GSAP where she sucked up all the community funding for years.

A very very rude woman who hates the GAA
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on September 09, 2021, 10:43:05 AM
Breaking news:

Fear Bun na Sceilpe does not approve of Derry Sinn Féin. More on this shocking revelation as we get it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 09, 2021, 01:19:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on September 09, 2021, 10:43:05 AM
Breaking news:

Fear Bun na Sceilpe does not approve of Derry Sinn Féin. More on this shocking revelation as we get it.

forgot to mention shes from Strabane-lol how worse could it get
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 07, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
Good news for Snap, Trueblue and some others here

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-sinn-f%C3%A9in-opens-up-10-point-lead-as-most-popular-party-among-voters-1.4693054?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fpoll-sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-opens-up-10-point-lead-as-most-popular-party-among-voters-1.4693054
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on October 07, 2021, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 07, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
Good news for Snap, Trueblue and some others here

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-sinn-f%C3%A9in-opens-up-10-point-lead-as-most-popular-party-among-voters-1.4693054?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fpoll-sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-opens-up-10-point-lead-as-most-popular-party-among-voters-1.4693054
32 is the magic number although i know you prefer 26 ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JoG2 on October 07, 2021, 11:38:05 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 07, 2021, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 07, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
Good news for Snap, Trueblue and some others here

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-sinn-f%C3%A9in-opens-up-10-point-lead-as-most-popular-party-among-voters-1.4693054?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fpoll-sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-opens-up-10-point-lead-as-most-popular-party-among-voters-1.4693054
32 is the magic number although i know you prefer 26 ;)

31 is the magic number, they can hold on to Tyrone
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tres Bien on October 07, 2021, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 07, 2021, 11:38:05 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 07, 2021, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 07, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
Good news for Snap, Trueblue and some others here

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-sinn-f%C3%A9in-opens-up-10-point-lead-as-most-popular-party-among-voters-1.4693054?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fpoll-sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-opens-up-10-point-lead-as-most-popular-party-among-voters-1.4693054
32 is the magic number although i know you prefer 26 ;)

31 is the magic number, they can hold on to Tyrone

Still greeting aye?

(https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/tyrone/99067/40841228.ece/AUTOCROP/w620/Inpho)

;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2021, 12:14:21 PM
I see Sinn Fein are now seething at the ending of the 12.5% corporate tax rate after years of claiming to want to raise the rate.  ;D

And SF supporters are more in favour of keeping the 12.5% rate than supporters of other parties.

Absolute shameless chancers.  ;D



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Bring it on although a UI would see SF go into decline-I suppose maybe they would see that as job done as that was their only policy for years
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on October 07, 2021, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Bring it on although a UI would see SF go into decline-I suppose maybe they would see that as job done as that was their only policy for years
Would it? Who would take their place? As bad as they are they're still 100x better than anything else north or south!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on October 07, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2021, 12:14:21 PM
I see Sinn Fein are now seething at the ending of the 12.5% corporate tax rate after years of claiming to want to raise the rate.  ;D

And SF supporters are more in favour of keeping the 12.5% rate than supporters of other parties.

Absolute shameless chancers.  ;D

Minions will follow the leader.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on October 07, 2021, 01:28:19 PM
Personal opinion, I dont think too many multi nationals are coming to Ireland these days solely for our corporation tax. A modest increase will make no difference to investment and it is merited. In fact the international community needs to find a way to make big business pay their fair share full stop. I don't agree if SF are saying hold it at 12.5%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tres Bien on October 07, 2021, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 07, 2021, 01:28:19 PM
Personal opinion, I dont think too many multi nationals are coming to Ireland these days solely for our corporation tax. A modest increase will make no difference to investment and it is merited. In fact the international community needs to find a way to make big business pay their fair share full stop. I don't agree if SF are saying hold it at 12.5%.

Whatever about whether their stance is right or wrong, can be discussed or agued.

SF wanting to maintain 12.5% as the CT rate down south is a long held position they've had for 10 years plus. People trying to spin this as them now pivoting to maintain it are extremely disingenuous and dishonest.

Here's an article from 11 years ago wanting to maintain the 12.5% rate.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30482478.html



Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 11:38:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 07, 2021, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Bring it on although a UI would see SF go into decline-I suppose maybe they would see that as job done as that was their only policy for years
Would it? Who would take their place? As bad as they are they're still 100x better than anything else north or south!

They just don't have the talent within their ranks or experience to operate an economy. Opposition is easy in the south. British handouts easy in the north
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 08:38:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 11:38:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 07, 2021, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Bring it on although a UI would see SF go into decline-I suppose maybe they would see that as job done as that was their only policy for years
Would it? Who would take their place? As bad as they are they're still 100x better than anything else north or south!

They just don't have the talent within their ranks or experience to operate an economy. Opposition is easy in the south. British handouts easy in the north

Have you seen the people in the South who hold office? You cant have if you think that. I would wager most independent commentators, even those completely at odds to SF, would say that there are much more talented TDs in SF than other parties. Mary Lou, Eoin O Broin, Pearse Doherty for example are way ahead of their counterparts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on October 08, 2021, 10:14:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 11:38:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 07, 2021, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Bring it on although a UI would see SF go into decline-I suppose maybe they would see that as job done as that was their only policy for years
Would it? Who would take their place? As bad as they are they're still 100x better than anything else north or south!

They just don't have the talent within their ranks or experience to operate an economy. Opposition is easy in the south. British handouts easy in the north
Honestly don't think they could be any worse than the corrupt shower of tramps in power in the south for the years, literally laughing at the ordinary people while cleaning them. And Mary Lou, Doherty and EOB are excellent.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2021, 11:28:45 AM
Mary Lou -no(uses mansplaining retort everytime she is in bother)

Other 2 are good but in reality O'Broin's policies would not withstand current economic challenges. They are telling the electorate what they want to hear without any credible alternatives

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 12:23:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2021, 11:28:45 AM
Mary Lou -no(uses mansplaining retort everytime she is in bother)

Other 2 are good but in reality O'Broin's policies would not withstand current economic challenges. They are telling the electorate what they want to hear without any credible alternatives

On Mary Lou - do you think the other leaders are better. Leo Varadkar and Michael Martin. Seriously now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on October 08, 2021, 01:37:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 08:38:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 11:38:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 07, 2021, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Bring it on although a UI would see SF go into decline-I suppose maybe they would see that as job done as that was their only policy for years
Would it? Who would take their place? As bad as they are they're still 100x better than anything else north or south!

They just don't have the talent within their ranks or experience to operate an economy. Opposition is easy in the south. British handouts easy in the north

Have you seen the people in the South who hold office? You cant have if you think that. I would wager most independent commentators, even those completely at odds to SF, would say that there are much more talented TDs in SF than other parties. Mary Lou, Eoin O Broin, Pearse Doherty for example are way ahead of their counterparts.

Doherty the party finance spokesman who made a tit of himself on twitter in relation to anti money laundering protocol. He is ok to roar and shout  in a well prepared statement likely written by someone else but i would have serious doubts about this ability.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Boycey on October 08, 2021, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 12:23:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2021, 11:28:45 AM
Mary Lou -no(uses mansplaining retort everytime she is in bother)

Other 2 are good but in reality O'Broin's policies would not withstand current economic challenges. They are telling the electorate what they want to hear without any credible alternatives

On Mary Lou - do you think the other leaders are better. Leo Varadkar and Michael Martin. Seriously now.

Being a good orator doesn't make someone a good politician. Sinn Fein are miles ahead, always have been in my opinion, on how to present their point. Sitting on the opposition benches and talking the talk is relatively easy it's possible we'll soon find out whether they can walk the walk.

I'm not convinced..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2021, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 08, 2021, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 12:23:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2021, 11:28:45 AM
Mary Lou -no(uses mansplaining retort everytime she is in bother)

Other 2 are good but in reality O'Broin's policies would not withstand current economic challenges. They are telling the electorate what they want to hear without any credible alternatives

On Mary Lou - do you think the other leaders are better. Leo Varadkar and Michael Martin. Seriously now.

Being a good orator doesn't make someone a good politician. Sinn Fein are miles ahead, always have been in my opinion, on how to present their point. Sitting on the opposition benches and talking the talk is relatively easy it's possible we'll soon find out whether they can walk the walk.

I'm not convinced..

Sin é go díreach
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 02:20:20 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on October 08, 2021, 01:37:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 08:38:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 11:38:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 07, 2021, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Bring it on although a UI would see SF go into decline-I suppose maybe they would see that as job done as that was their only policy for years
Would it? Who would take their place? As bad as they are they're still 100x better than anything else north or south!

They just don't have the talent within their ranks or experience to operate an economy. Opposition is easy in the south. British handouts easy in the north

Have you seen the people in the South who hold office? You cant have if you think that. I would wager most independent commentators, even those completely at odds to SF, would say that there are much more talented TDs in SF than other parties. Mary Lou, Eoin O Broin, Pearse Doherty for example are way ahead of their counterparts.

Doherty the party finance spokesman who made a tit of himself on twitter in relation to anti money laundering protocol. He is ok to roar and shout  in a well prepared statement likely written by someone else but i would have serious doubts about this ability.

Tell me the FF and FG politicians you admire so since all the SF ones are no good. This should be good!!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 08, 2021, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 12:23:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2021, 11:28:45 AM
Mary Lou -no(uses mansplaining retort everytime she is in bother)

Other 2 are good but in reality O'Broin's policies would not withstand current economic challenges. They are telling the electorate what they want to hear without any credible alternatives

On Mary Lou - do you think the other leaders are better. Leo Varadkar and Michael Martin. Seriously now.

Being a good orator doesn't make someone a good politician. Sinn Fein are miles ahead, always have been in my opinion, on how to present their point. Sitting on the opposition benches and talking the talk is relatively easy it's possible we'll soon find out whether they can walk the walk.

I'm not convinced..

Yes at the end of the day, we will not know until they are in office. And I agree, their politicians are miles ahead and always have been.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 03:13:51 PM
Miles ahead.....
How exactly?
and other than your own biased opinion what are the criteria?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 08, 2021, 03:19:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 03:13:51 PM
Miles ahead.....
How exactly?
and other than your own biased opinion what are the criteria?
I'm sure Itchy can speak for himself, but it's just a matter of opinion in the end. And it's hardly a earth shattering opinion that SF have people more capable than the sort of people who brought us a children's hospital with a close to a €2bn overspend attached.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 03:26:58 PM
But SF have never been in charge of any big project anywhere so you can't compare.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2021, 03:29:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 08, 2021, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 12:23:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2021, 11:28:45 AM
Mary Lou -no(uses mansplaining retort everytime she is in bother)

Other 2 are good but in reality O'Broin's policies would not withstand current economic challenges. They are telling the electorate what they want to hear without any credible alternatives

On Mary Lou - do you think the other leaders are better. Leo Varadkar and Michael Martin. Seriously now.

Being a good orator doesn't make someone a good politician. Sinn Fein are miles ahead, always have been in my opinion, on how to present their point. Sitting on the opposition benches and talking the talk is relatively easy it's possible we'll soon find out whether they can walk the walk.

I'm not convinced..

Yes at the end of the day, we will not know until they are in office. And I agree, their politicians are miles ahead and always have been.

That doesnt say much for the electorate-you are basically saying they dont know whats good for them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tres Bien on October 08, 2021, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 03:26:58 PM
But SF have never been in charge of any big project anywhere so you can't compare.

Aye you can't compare a crowd with a proven track record of crashing the economy and creating crises in public services with those who don't have a track record in crashing the economy and bungling public services.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 08, 2021, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 03:26:58 PM
But SF have never been in charge of any big project anywhere so you can't compare.

Doesn't change my point in the slightest. It's all about opinion. When one group of people have proven time, after time, after time, to be incompetent, then it's not hard to come to the conclusion that another group of people might be the more competent option if given the opportunity to show it. And this isn't just me saying so. The opinion polls would suggest that more people now believe in SF's competency than in FFGs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 08, 2021, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 03:13:51 PM
Miles ahead.....
How exactly?
and other than your own biased opinion what are the criteria?
Miles may not be accurate, but it certainly seems to be the case with public opinion at the minute. I think you would need to be pretty biased not to see that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 04:02:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 08, 2021, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 03:26:58 PM
But SF have never been in charge of any big project anywhere so you can't compare.

Doesn't change my point in the slightest. It's all about opinion. When one group of people have proven time, after time, after time, to be incompetent, then it's not hard to come to the conclusion that another group of people might be the more competent option if given the opportunity to show it. And this isn't just me saying so. The opinion polls would suggest that more people now believe in SF's competency than in FFGs.

FF+FG 42% SF 32% latest opinion poll.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 04:08:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 03:13:51 PM
Miles ahead.....
How exactly?
and other than your own biased opinion what are the criteria?

Its my opinion having been an observer of politicans on all sides for 20 plus years of my adult life. Thats all. I am not sure how I can prove it with a pen and paper no more than you can disprove it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on October 08, 2021, 04:09:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 04:02:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 08, 2021, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 03:26:58 PM
But SF have never been in charge of any big project anywhere so you can't compare.

Doesn't change my point in the slightest. It's all about opinion. When one group of people have proven time, after time, after time, to be incompetent, then it's not hard to come to the conclusion that another group of people might be the more competent option if given the opportunity to show it. And this isn't just me saying so. The opinion polls would suggest that more people now believe in SF's competency than in FFGs.

FF+FG 42% SF 32% latest opinion poll.

Jesus you are some disciple to FFG.
How about FFG = 42%, Rest = 58%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 04:19:38 PM
Snap only mentioned "FFG" ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tres Bien on October 08, 2021, 04:46:00 PM
It's embarrassing when a lad pretends not to vote FFG and then spends his whole time going around trying to deflect criticism off them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 05:05:03 PM
Just responding to claims SF politicians were better than the current leaders.
I asked SFitchy for his criteria , Snap replied that it was just his opinion.
Snap mentioned more people believe in SFs competency than that of  "FFG".
I pointed out the latest Opinion poll, (which had FF and FG at the same percentage as in the 2020 GE, with SF 8 points higher than then).

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on October 08, 2021, 07:15:47 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2021, 07:26:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2021, 05:05:03 PM
Just responding to claims SF politicians were better than the current leaders.
I asked SFitchy for his criteria , Snap replied that it was just his opinion.
Snap mentioned more people believe in SFs competency than that of  "FFG".
I pointed out the latest Opinion poll, (which had FF and FG at the same percentage as in the 2020 GE, with SF 8 points higher than then).

Ah Rossfan come on. You know well what you are at combining the FF and FG percentages. Fwiw, I am highly surprised FF are as high as they are in the polls but that's not for this thread.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2021, 05:29:25 PM
Martina Anderson just updated get LinkedIn lol.

SF ffs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2021, 09:57:19 PM
SF are normally well tuned into the trendy stuff, but they are struggling a bit with the global warming. Their usual approach that somebody else should pay for things doesn't sound well. I'd say their policy of actually removing the existing carbon tax will go the way of the opposition to non jury courts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 14, 2021, 08:30:03 AM
SF up to 37% in the latest opinion poll. Whether that will hold up till 2025 remains to be seen, but this government may have over 40% voting for them such is their absurd stupidity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on November 14, 2021, 02:29:37 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 14, 2021, 08:30:03 AM
SF up to 37% in the latest opinion poll. Whether that will hold up till 2025 remains to be seen, but this government may have over 40% voting for them such is their absurd stupidity.
Farr, in terms of how our economy is doing, how much tax we pay, how much disposable income we have, employment levels, the level of opportunities for our children to excel and thrive, our health system and our housing issues - can you explain in each how SF will make things better? I know you think I'm absurdly stupid for not understanding, so maybe you'd be good enough to explain.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2021, 07:23:26 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 14, 2021, 02:29:37 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 14, 2021, 08:30:03 AM
SF up to 37% in the latest opinion poll. Whether that will hold up till 2025 remains to be seen, but this government may have over 40% voting for them such is their absurd stupidity.
Farr, in terms of how our economy is doing, how much tax we pay, how much disposable income we have, employment levels, the level of opportunities for our children to excel and thrive, our health system and our housing issues - can you explain in each how SF will make things better? I know you think I'm absurdly stupid for not understanding, so maybe you'd be good enough to explain.

Think we are all waiting for those answers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 14, 2021, 07:30:38 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 14, 2021, 02:29:37 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 14, 2021, 08:30:03 AM
SF up to 37% in the latest opinion poll. Whether that will hold up till 2025 remains to be seen, but this government may have over 40% voting for them such is their absurd stupidity.
Farr, in terms of how our economy is doing, how much tax we pay, how much disposable income we have, employment levels, the level of opportunities for our children to excel and thrive, our health system and our housing issues - can you explain in each how SF will make things better? I know you think I'm absurdly stupid for not understanding, so maybe you'd be good enough to explain.

Can you provide the same for a continued vote for FF or FG?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on November 16, 2021, 07:02:36 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 14, 2021, 07:30:38 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 14, 2021, 02:29:37 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 14, 2021, 08:30:03 AM
SF up to 37% in the latest opinion poll. Whether that will hold up till 2025 remains to be seen, but this government may have over 40% voting for them such is their absurd stupidity.
Farr, in terms of how our economy is doing, how much tax we pay, how much disposable income we have, employment levels, the level of opportunities for our children to excel and thrive, our health system and our housing issues - can you explain in each how SF will make things better? I know you think I'm absurdly stupid for not understanding, so maybe you'd be good enough to explain.

Can you provide the same for a continued vote for FF or FG?

That's the best you've got?

I'd be happy to.  But I'd like to give Farr the opportunity first, as he was the one who said anyone would be absurdly stupid to vote for FF or FG rather than SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 16, 2021, 09:24:03 AM
I didn't say anyone was stupid to vote for anyone. I just think this cobbled together motley crew of a government aren't doing themselves any favours and will send even more people to vote SF next time round and it could be greater than 40% with the way things are going.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on November 16, 2021, 10:56:02 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 16, 2021, 09:24:03 AM
I didn't say anyone was stupid to vote for anyone. I just think this cobbled together motley crew of a government aren't doing themselves any favours and will send even more people to vote SF next time round and it could be greater than 40% with the way things are going.
Farr, you said "this government may have over 40% voting for them such is their absurd stupidity."

That seems on the face of it that you are saying those 40% are absurdly stupid. And doesn't tie in with your recent comment "I didn't say anyone was stupid to vote for anyone."
Can you explain?

Also, in terms of how our economy is doing, how much tax we pay, how much disposable income we have, employment levels, the level of opportunities for our children to excel and thrive, our health system and our housing issues - do you know how SF will make things better? Or is it just a case of anyone bar FF FG? So something along the lines of "anyone who says No to everything they do has my vote, regardless of what actual policy positions they may or may not hold themselves"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 16, 2021, 11:27:42 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 16, 2021, 10:56:02 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 16, 2021, 09:24:03 AM
I didn't say anyone was stupid to vote for anyone. I just think this cobbled together motley crew of a government aren't doing themselves any favours and will send even more people to vote SF next time round and it could be greater than 40% with the way things are going.
Farr, you said "this government may have over 40% voting for them such is their absurd stupidity."

That seems on the face of it that you are saying those 40% are absurdly stupid. And doesn't tie in with your recent comment "I didn't say anyone was stupid to vote for anyone."
Can you explain?

Also, in terms of how our economy is doing, how much tax we pay, how much disposable income we have, employment levels, the level of opportunities for our children to excel and thrive, our health system and our housing issues - do you know how SF will make things better? Or is it just a case of anyone bar FF FG? So something along the lines of "anyone who says No to everything they do has my vote, regardless of what actual policy positions they may or may not hold themselves"?

I meant the government's stupid mistakes bumbling from one crisis to the next may have over 40% voting for SF at the next election.

As regards how SF would do better - I'm not sure if they would to be honest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 16, 2021, 11:51:57 AM
They won't and all we can hope for is that as part of a Coalition they won't disimprove things.
Running a State is more complicated than slogans and no tax/free everything.
Expect them to start moving more to the Centre between now and the end of 2024 as they seek to expand their appeal. They've started already with the Special Court.
They know they'll keep the border County republicans and the pay nothing brigade.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2021, 01:13:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2021, 11:51:57 AM
They won't and all we can hope for is that as part of a Coalition they won't disimprove things.
Running a State is more complicated than slogans and no tax/free everything.
Expect them to start moving more to the Centre between now and the end of 2024 as they seek to expand their appeal. They've started already with the Special Court.
They know they'll keep the border County republicans and the pay nothing brigade.

The People against People will get the pay nothing crowd.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Boycey on November 16, 2021, 01:21:32 PM
People against People is a great idea for a party in fairness  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on November 16, 2021, 01:24:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2021, 11:51:57 AM
They won't and all we can hope for is that as part of a Coalition they won't disimprove things.
Running a State is more complicated than slogans and no tax/free everything.
Expect them to start moving more to the Centre between now and the end of 2024 as they seek to expand their appeal. They've started already with the Special Court.
They know they'll keep the border County republicans and the pay nothing brigade.

Wow, political party in opposition promising the sun, moon and stars which will not happen when they get into government.

Those sneaky SF barstewards, the other parties must be kicking themselves that they never thought of this, though in fairness their higher moral framework wouldn't allow them to deceive the electorate with such underhand tactics 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on November 16, 2021, 01:40:04 PM
I'll say one think for Sinn Fein, after the scandal in UK about MPs having second jobs, no fear of any of them having a second job! Not too many had first jobs before they became politicians in the first place!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Don Johnson on November 17, 2021, 08:54:07 AM
Quote from: Louther on November 16, 2021, 01:40:04 PM
I'll say one think for Sinn Fein, after the scandal in UK about MPs having second jobs, no fear of any of them having a second job! Not too many had first jobs before they became politicians in the first place!

Haha LOL thats class mate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 30, 2021, 05:26:36 PM
Sinn Féin councillors did not declare community group links during £2m Covid funding process - Belfast Live

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/sinn-fin-councillors-not-declare-22249142 :o

I'm shocked

I didn't even think stuff like this was newsworthy as there aren't many journalists willing to report on it

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 30, 2021, 08:11:14 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 30, 2021, 05:26:36 PM
Sinn Féin councillors did not declare community group links during £2m Covid funding process - Belfast Live

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/sinn-fin-councillors-not-declare-22249142 :o

I'm shocked

I didn't even think stuff like this was newsworthy as there aren't many journalists willing to report on it

Shock horror. Not be long until the people realise Derry SF was just sneak preview
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on November 30, 2021, 09:40:29 PM
£800k spent on a Flags, identity & culture report, and there are no actions planned.  Bunch of amateurs. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 06, 2021, 01:14:25 PM
Those of ye in the 26 thinking of voting for Sinn Féin.....
RTÉ1 tonight, "Case I can't forget"

Lest we forget, Gary and Patrick R I.P .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 06, 2021, 02:44:11 PM
EU seem to be getting ready for a SF government.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40759770.html

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 09:13:36 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

nothing. Its about votes as it always is with them, running with foxes and the hounds again both sides of the border on policies
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 06, 2021, 02:44:11 PM
EU seem to be getting ready for a SF government.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40759770.html

They might mess this up

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/hdi-by-country
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 07, 2021, 09:47:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 09:13:36 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

nothing. Its about votes as it always is with them, running with foxes and the hounds again both sides of the border on policies
Would SF have many votes within the fox-hunting community? I'd have thought that the SDLPs domain, along with House of Lords, poppies and what not
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 10:06:05 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 07, 2021, 09:47:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 09:13:36 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

nothing. Its about votes as it always is with them, running with foxes and the hounds again both sides of the border on policies
Would SF have many votes within the fox-hunting community? I'd have thought that the SDLPs domain, along with House of Lords, poppies and what not

Fox hunting here is mainly with lurchers, terriers- not your image of middle England. Same as broc hunting. Not a class thing, a defs not a religion thing. SDLP voted for bill btw
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 07, 2021, 10:38:42 AM
It's the story of thing carried out by yahoos and rednecks over here.

They should have backed the ban.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 07, 2021, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 09:13:36 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

nothing. Its about votes as it always is with them, running with foxes and the hounds again both sides of the border on policies

80% of the public back a ban, so how is this about votes? Isn't this the opposite?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on December 07, 2021, 10:46:01 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

Another example of why they'll struggle in power, when real decisions have to be made they hide and sit on the fence. Be it their voter base or inner group calling the shots they incapable of taking a position. If it's a simple decision like this, how can they handle bigger calls that will have to be made that affect then of thousands of people. They can't abstain then.

Also same old story with Covid restrictions coming back in, their first reaction is to shout for business supports and PUP payments and when that already been done they disappear avoid any commentary round the restrictions, in case they asked if they agree or disagree with them.

Everything can't be based on calling for a report into XYZ, in real life you make a decision and stand over it.

I still think they'll not field enough candidates in ROI at next election, be unable to form a majority and happily sit in opposition. They have no spine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 10:51:23 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 07, 2021, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 09:13:36 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

nothing. Its about votes as it always is with them, running with foxes and the hounds again both sides of the border on policies

80% of the public back a ban, so how is this about votes? Isn't this the opposite?

True it was a big consultation response tbf, ah must be some dodgy lobbying group then, money, diesel or the likes
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 07, 2021, 10:52:20 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 07, 2021, 10:38:42 AM
It's the story of thing carried out by yahoos and rednecks over here.

They should have backed the ban.

Absolutely. I struggle to see their viewpoint on this. A very bad decision that won't help them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: Louther on December 07, 2021, 10:46:01 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

Another example of why they'll struggle in power, when real decisions have to be made they hide and sit on the fence. Be it their voter base or inner group calling the shots they incapable of taking a position. If it's a simple decision like this, how can they handle bigger calls that will have to be made that affect then of thousands of people. They can't abstain then.

Also same old story with Covid restrictions coming back in, their first reaction is to shout for business supports and PUP payments and when that already been done they disappear avoid any commentary round the restrictions, in case they asked if they agree or disagree with them.

Everything can't be based on calling for a report into XYZ, in real life you make a decision and stand over it.

I still think they'll not field enough candidates in ROI at next election, be unable to form a majority and happily sit in opposition. They have no spine.

Yes the party who's members put their lives on the line more than any other to stand up for nationalists during the conflict, has no spine.  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

No idea what was wrong with the wording. I notice the SDLP also said they were unhappy with it, but voted for it anyway. Until somebody explains exactly what the problem was with it, then it's a bad look for SF to have voted against it.

But to suggest that this will be the hill SF die on? Now come on. I very much doubt that this will still be in the news cycle by tomorrow, let alone being a big enough story to bring down Ireland's largest party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Louther on December 07, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: Louther on December 07, 2021, 10:46:01 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

Another example of why they'll struggle in power, when real decisions have to be made they hide and sit on the fence. Be it their voter base or inner group calling the shots they incapable of taking a position. If it's a simple decision like this, how can they handle bigger calls that will have to be made that affect then of thousands of people. They can't abstain then.

Also same old story with Covid restrictions coming back in, their first reaction is to shout for business supports and PUP payments and when that already been done they disappear avoid any commentary round the restrictions, in case they asked if they agree or disagree with them.

Everything can't be based on calling for a report into XYZ, in real life you make a decision and stand over it.

I still think they'll not field enough candidates in ROI at next election, be unable to form a majority and happily sit in opposition. They have no spine.

Yes the party who's members put their lives on the line more than any other to stand up for nationalists during the conflict, has no spine.  ::)

The troubles are over. This is politics. This generation wouldn't have lasted a wet week in the 80s.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 07, 2021, 11:17:08 AM
Also. For FG to call SF partitionists is some craic when they've ignored the North for a hundred years!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 11:42:11 AM
Quote from: Louther on December 07, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
The troubles are over. This is politics. This generation wouldn't have lasted a wet week in the 80s.

Oh that's ok then, as long as you know that. I thought maybe you were confused on that detail, since it's not all that long since you posted an insinuation that SF politicians take orders from the IRA Army Council.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: Louther on December 07, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
Another example of why they'll struggle in power, when real decisions have to be made they hide and sit on the fence.

Quote from: Louther on December 07, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
If it's a simple decision like this, how can they handle bigger calls that will have to be made that affect then of thousands of people. They can't abstain then.

Quote from: Louther on December 07, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
They have no spine

I forgot to ask....you do realise they didn't abstain? How can taking a decision (not to mention a deeply unpopular one), and voting accordingly, be termed as "spineless", as "abstaining" and as "sitting on the fence"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 07, 2021, 02:09:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: Louther on December 07, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
Another example of why they'll struggle in power, when real decisions have to be made they hide and sit on the fence.

Quote from: Louther on December 07, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
If it's a simple decision like this, how can they handle bigger calls that will have to be made that affect then of thousands of people. They can't abstain then.

Quote from: Louther on December 07, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
They have no spine

I forgot to ask....you do realise they didn't abstain? How can taking a decision (not to mention a deeply unpopular one), and voting accordingly, be termed as "spineless", as "abstaining" and as "sitting on the fence"?

Do they still use the term fool hoor around Donegal? Think you've caught a live one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

No idea what was wrong with the wording. I notice the SDLP also said they were unhappy with it, but voted for it anyway. Until somebody explains exactly what the problem was with it, then it's a bad look for SF to have voted against it.

But to suggest that this will be the hill SF die on? Now come on. I very much doubt that this will still be in the news cycle by tomorrow, let alone being a big enough story to bring down Ireland's largest party.

I get all that, but yes voice your concerns but still vote it through. What they've done by doing what they've done is give the usual suspects a stick to beat them with for no apparent gain..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

No idea what was wrong with the wording. I notice the SDLP also said they were unhappy with it, but voted for it anyway. Until somebody explains exactly what the problem was with it, then it's a bad look for SF to have voted against it.

But to suggest that this will be the hill SF die on? Now come on. I very much doubt that this will still be in the news cycle by tomorrow, let alone being a big enough story to bring down Ireland's largest party.

I get all that, but yes voice your concerns but still vote it through. What they've done by doing what they've done is give the usual suspects a stick to beat them with for no apparent gain..

Agreed. Not defending their decision here. In fact, I couldn't disagree with their decision more. Just saying, it's overstating it a tad to think that this story is "the hill the SF will die on". It will be old news in a day or two.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 02:26:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 07, 2021, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

No idea what was wrong with the wording. I notice the SDLP also said they were unhappy with it, but voted for it anyway. Until somebody explains exactly what the problem was with it, then it's a bad look for SF to have voted against it.

But to suggest that this will be the hill SF die on? Now come on. I very much doubt that this will still be in the news cycle by tomorrow, let alone being a big enough story to bring down Ireland's largest party.

I get all that, but yes voice your concerns but still vote it through. What they've done by doing what they've done is give the usual suspects a stick to beat them with for no apparent gain..

Agreed. Not defending their decision here. In fact, I couldn't disagree with their decision more. Just saying, it's overstating it a tad to think that this story is "the hill the SF will die on". It will be old news in a day or two.

It probably won't have any electoral impact come May alright, but why do stupid things like this?

It's not being a populist as such, it's just doing the right thing irrespective if the wording ain't great.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on December 07, 2021, 02:31:32 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 07, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Strange hill for SF to die on with this ban on hunting with dogs...

What was so wrong with the wording of the legislation I wonder?

Very poor from them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on December 07, 2021, 03:01:50 PM
Would the proposed legislation have outlawed hare coursing?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 07, 2021, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: dec on December 07, 2021, 03:01:50 PM
Would the proposed legislation have outlawed hare coursing?

I think apart from the 'hunt', any mammal / animal killed by dogs apart from rats & Mice.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on December 07, 2021, 04:53:55 PM
Them hoors out through other people's land tramping off fences and leaving gates open to shoot every living thing in sight, ban the lot of them.   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2021, 09:42:17 AM
https://m.independent.ie/news/sinn-fein-popularity-hitting-unseen-heights-as-mary-lou-mcdonald-takes-15pc-lead-over-both-fine-gael-and-fianna-fail-41136844.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on December 10, 2021, 10:59:01 AM
I heard that the legislation banned rabbit hunting as well as other prey such as foxes. An explanation by SF would still help.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 10, 2021, 03:55:57 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 10, 2021, 10:59:01 AM
I heard that the legislation banned rabbit hunting as well as other prey such as foxes. An explanation by SF would still help.
Agreed, whilst the needless pursuit of animals by dogs/terriers etc for fun should be banned, where would this stop? Do we ban shooting of pests on farms or ducks and game for sport? If their plan is a well thought out bill that bans unnecessary cruelty for fun then they need to spell that out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 11, 2021, 11:35:24 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

Bizarre to say the least.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on December 11, 2021, 12:01:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 11, 2021, 11:35:24 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

Bizarre to say the least.

Is he still associated with Sinn Fein in any formal role?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on December 11, 2021, 12:43:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 12:01:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 11, 2021, 11:35:24 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

Bizarre to say the least.

Is he still associated with Sinn Fein in any formal role?

I thought he was smarter than that what was going on with it??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. It's the same as the tweets about rubber ducks and trampolines. Just.... why?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 11, 2021, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. It's the same as the tweets about rubber ducks and trampolines. Just.... why?

Coz he's a fanny
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on December 11, 2021, 04:29:46 PM
There is a zany humour there. The predictable outrage is is the level of outrage that I feel when I see tweets encouraging me to celebrate the occupied statelet centenary or any tweet by Ruth Dudley Edwards
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on December 13, 2021, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 11, 2021, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. It's the same as the tweets about rubber ducks and trampolines. Just.... why?

Coz he's a fanny

Someone close to him needs to have a word in his ear alright...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 13, 2021, 12:59:14 PM
At the end of Gerry's podcast yesterday he played The Wheels on the Bus, can someone please let the unionists/FFG/SDLP know so they can give out about it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 13, 2021, 01:10:53 PM
At least it's better than Bombs on the Bus!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 13, 2021, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2021, 01:10:53 PM
At least it's better than Bombs on the Bus!

Wasn't that one of the deserts in the recipe book?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on December 13, 2021, 02:27:25 PM
Rent free
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 13, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 13, 2021, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 11, 2021, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. It's the same as the tweets about rubber ducks and trampolines. Just.... why?

Coz he's a fanny

Someone close to him needs to have a word in his ear alright...

It's just pure ego
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: From the Bunker on December 13, 2021, 08:19:06 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 13, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 13, 2021, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 11, 2021, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. It's the same as the tweets about rubber ducks and trampolines. Just.... why?

Coz he's a fanny

Someone close to him needs to have a word in his ear alright...

It's just pure ego

Everything about it is cheap. And the ''Tiochfaifh ar la la la la la'' is embarrassing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 14, 2021, 06:52:35 AM
Quote from: tiempo on December 13, 2021, 01:24:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2021, 01:10:53 PM
At least it's better than Bombs on the Bus!

Wasn't that one of the deserts in the recipe book?

A desert.... or a dessert?  >:(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2021, 08:10:32 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 13, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 13, 2021, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 11, 2021, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. It's the same as the tweets about rubber ducks and trampolines. Just.... why?

Coz he's a fanny

Someone close to him needs to have a word in his ear alright...

It's just pure ego

??? I'd have thought it was a fairly clear indication that he doesn't take himself too seriously.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2021, 08:48:20 AM
Eoin Ó Broin TD obviously takes him seriously anyway, saying he should apologise ;).
The "young Turks" have an election to fight.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2021, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2021, 08:10:32 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 13, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 13, 2021, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 11, 2021, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. It's the same as the tweets about rubber ducks and trampolines. Just.... why?

Coz he's a fanny

Someone close to him needs to have a word in his ear alright...

It's just pure ego

??? I'd have thought it was a fairly clear indication that he doesn't take himself too seriously.

International statesman like Mandela or Hume apparently
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2021, 08:48:20 AM
Eoin Ó Broin TD obviously takes him seriously anyway, saying he should apologise ;).
The "young Turks" have an election to fight.....
Wee gobshite. Whats the big deal...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2021, 09:17:13 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2021, 08:48:20 AM
Eoin Ó Broin TD obviously takes him seriously anyway, saying he should apologise ;).
The "young Turks" have an election to fight.....
Wee gobshite. Whats the big deal...

You are probably and example of why UI will be difficult-no empathy with the other side, God knows the other side has plenty of examples of that too, but we should try harder really
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2021, 09:21:29 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 14, 2021, 08:48:20 AM
Eoin Ó Broin TD obviously takes him seriously anyway, saying he should apologise ;).
The "young Turks" have an election to fight.....
Wee gobshite. Whats the big deal...
The Centre ground has to be gained in the 26.
Gerry is so yesterday
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 14, 2021, 09:22:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2021, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2021, 08:10:32 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 13, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 13, 2021, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 11, 2021, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. It's the same as the tweets about rubber ducks and trampolines. Just.... why?

Coz he's a fanny

Someone close to him needs to have a word in his ear alright...

It's just pure ego

??? I'd have thought it was a fairly clear indication that he doesn't take himself too seriously.

International statesman like Mandela or Hume apparently

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGi6Rj9WUAkTaWv?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2021, 09:22:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2021, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 14, 2021, 08:10:32 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 13, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 13, 2021, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 11, 2021, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 11, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
What's everyones view on Gerry Adams' Christmas video?

I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. It's the same as the tweets about rubber ducks and trampolines. Just.... why?

Coz he's a fanny

Someone close to him needs to have a word in his ear alright...

It's just pure ego

??? I'd have thought it was a fairly clear indication that he doesn't take himself too seriously.

International statesman like Mandela or Hume apparently

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGi6Rj9WUAkTaWv?format=jpg&name=small)
;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on December 14, 2021, 10:20:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2021, 09:03:16 AM

International statesman like Mandela or Hume apparently

Its not Ger's fault Mandela Hume et al were minus craic, big Ian had that staunch comic vibe i'll give him that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlbmIMbKZa4
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2021, 11:07:47 AM
Quote from: tiempo on December 14, 2021, 10:20:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2021, 09:03:16 AM

International statesman like Mandela or Hume apparently

Its not Ger's fault Mandela Hume et al were minus craic, big Ian had that staunch comic vibe i'll give him that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlbmIMbKZa4


its good that you are  putting Ian and Gerry together there, love it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on December 14, 2021, 01:07:39 PM
Matt Carty made of steel no apoligising future leader.Eoin is middle class soft.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 14, 2021, 01:13:25 PM
I'm a SF voter and it's childish nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: michaelg on December 14, 2021, 04:16:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2021, 01:10:53 PM
At least it's better than Bombs on the Bus!
Posted on the day that the Miami Showband victims received damages, this is one of the most insensitve and crass posts on this forum this year. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2021, 05:28:47 PM
False concern for victims for political point scoring is the guy's chief (only?) contribution to this board

No class or intellect

Best disregarded
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2021, 07:03:43 PM
https://twitter.com/moneillsf/status/1471884352904736774?t=idCJtrPU89s1CcItnst6pw&s=19

Brass neck
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 23, 2021, 06:32:22 PM
O'Neill and Murphy should be ashamed to call themselves Republicans
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 24, 2021, 10:45:28 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 23, 2021, 06:32:22 PM
O'Neill and Murphy should be ashamed to call themselves Republicans
Right so where do they get the money then to protect jobs and livelihoods? At least they are off their arses trying.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 07:10:06 PM
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1484609006886916097?t=5MatZi-0ezENSSlQuP1fjA&s=19

Wtf does she think we were all doing last 2 years. Disgraceful from her
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 22, 2022, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 07:10:06 PM
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1484609006886916097?t=5MatZi-0ezENSSlQuP1fjA&s=19

Wtf does she think we were all doing last 2 years. Disgraceful from her

Well this last 2 years you've been on this thread every farts end slagging then off so there's that.
What do you want her to say?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 22, 2022, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 07:10:06 PM
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1484609006886916097?t=5MatZi-0ezENSSlQuP1fjA&s=19

Wtf does she think we were all doing last 2 years. Disgraceful from her

Well this last 2 years you've been on this thread every farts end slagging then off so there's that.
What do you want her to say?

At least i worked every day lol. That's my point .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 23, 2022, 04:57:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 22, 2022, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 07:10:06 PM
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1484609006886916097?t=5MatZi-0ezENSSlQuP1fjA&s=19

Wtf does she think we were all doing last 2 years. Disgraceful from her

Well this last 2 years you've been on this thread every farts end slagging then off so there's that.
What do you want her to say?

At least i worked every day lol. That's my point .

Remember you hinted that you might give the board a break for 2022? Maybe you were on to something. Go get that chip on your shoulder filled someplace.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 23, 2022, 07:38:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 23, 2022, 04:57:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 22, 2022, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 07:10:06 PM
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1484609006886916097?t=5MatZi-0ezENSSlQuP1fjA&s=19

Wtf does she think we were all doing last 2 years. Disgraceful from her

Well this last 2 years you've been on this thread every farts end slagging then off so there's that.
What do you want her to say?

At least i worked every day lol. That's my point .

Remember you hinted that you might give the board a break for 2022? Maybe you were on to something. Go get that chip on your shoulder filled someplace.

Shit Chat returns
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on January 26, 2022, 09:24:55 AM
SF getting some hammering on Nolan today.Ladies being called out for some vile tweets.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2022, 09:32:07 AM
Journalists suddenly realise they can get free stories bv searching twitter history lol.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 09:37:26 AM
Great to see that we are exploring real politics going over old twitter accounts ffs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2022, 09:49:48 AM
Can we put up these tweets for the craic?

Again social media should be banned, it fairly shows up the the type of people who are running ruining this place when they think they should tell you what they are thinking on twitter
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:08:14 AM
South own Sinead Ennis getting hammed for calling Suarez a racist and a tr**p back in the day. Petty but when you are vociferous about Doug Beattie it comes back to bite you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2022, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2022, 09:49:48 AM
Can we put up these tweets for the craic?

Again social media should be banned, it fairly shows up the the type of people who are running ruining this place when they think they should tell you what they are thinking on twitter

When do you ban it though? Years before they know they're going to be politicians? Maybe you wipe your history when you move job.

There was a young footballer got his contract pulled for , I think, portadown last week as he had racist tweets on it before.

You just really need to watch what you put on it and the best approach is to steer well away from politically sensitive issues because in some cases you just can't say right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 26, 2022, 10:10:44 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:08:14 AM
South own Sinead Ennis getting hammed for calling Suarez a racist and a tr**p back in the day. Petty but when you are vociferous about Doug Beattie it comes back to bite you.
Well she wasn't wrong about him was she?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 26, 2022, 10:11:04 AM
Said it before. Social media is the worst thing ever invented.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:14:28 AM
Lets face it-these are not nice people, they exist in most parties, but DUP/SF probably worse for online gang bullying

Twitter a cesspit. Look at the abuse of Maria Cahill from shinners-people who pretend to be all for women's rights
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: skeog on January 26, 2022, 09:24:55 AM
SF getting some hammering on Nolan today. Ladies being called out for some vile tweets.

Haven't listened to that show in many years. My reasoning was vindicated once again last week when I was directed to the audio clip from one of his shows.

On the day the latest Ombudsman's report came out in relation to 19 cases of collusion, Nolan invited the daughter of the late Cllr Eddie Fullerton to talk about his murder and about the Ombusdman's findings of state collusion in the killing.

He thought it appropriate to challenge her on Eddie's membership of SF, and how she felt about the 'morality' of that. In other words, on a day when a murder victim's daughter was reeling with pain, he took the opportunity to take the "justification" his killers used for the murder, and throw it at his daughter as though it was a fair point.

He tried a few times to say he wasn't trying to justify the murder - but the question was so carefully worded that it stopped just short of asking "did he not deserve it?"

No harm, but anyone who contributes to his listener figures needs to step back and think about what they are enabling.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:20:24 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: skeog on January 26, 2022, 09:24:55 AM
SF getting some hammering on Nolan today. Ladies being called out for some vile tweets.

Haven't listened to that show in many years. My reasoning was vindicated once again last week when I was directed to the audio clip from one of his shows.

On the day the latest Ombudsman's report came out in relation to 19 cases of collusion, Nolan invited the daughter of the late Cllr Eddie Fullerton to talk about his murder and about the Ombusdman's findings of state collusion in the killing.

He thought it appropriate to challenge her on Eddie's membership of SF, and how she felt about the 'morality' of that. In other words, on a day when a murder victim's daughter was reeling with pain, he took the opportunity to take the "justification" his killers used for the murder, and throw it at his daughter as though it was a fair point.

He tried a few times to say he wasn't trying to justify the murder - but the question was so carefully worded that it stopped just short of asking "did he not deserve it?"

No harm, but anyone who contributes to his listener figures needs to step back and think about what they are enabling.

Diversion. Different subject, we all accept Eddie was murdered by state forces.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:27:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:20:24 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: skeog on January 26, 2022, 09:24:55 AM
SF getting some hammering on Nolan today. Ladies being called out for some vile tweets.

Haven't listened to that show in many years. My reasoning was vindicated once again last week when I was directed to the audio clip from one of his shows.

On the day the latest Ombudsman's report came out in relation to 19 cases of collusion, Nolan invited the daughter of the late Cllr Eddie Fullerton to talk about his murder and about the Ombusdman's findings of state collusion in the killing.

He thought it appropriate to challenge her on Eddie's membership of SF, and how she felt about the 'morality' of that. In other words, on a day when a murder victim's daughter was reeling with pain, he took the opportunity to take the "justification" his killers used for the murder, and throw it at his daughter as though it was a fair point.

He tried a few times to say he wasn't trying to justify the murder - but the question was so carefully worded that it stopped just short of asking "did he not deserve it?"

No harm, but anyone who contributes to his listener figures needs to step back and think about what they are enabling.

Diversion. Different subject, we all accept Eddie was murdered by state forces.

Of course we accept collusion in the murder. That's not the point of what I posted. The point of it (as I think everyone bar you can surely see) was the shockingly callous treatment of Eddie's daughter by Nolan when she was invited on to discuss his killing.

As for your "diversion" nonsense, someone mentioned the Nolan Show and I replied about the Nolan Show. Besides, would you ever f**k away off talking about diversion, you insufferable bore? There's barely a thread on this board that you haven't attempted to turn into a yapping session about SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 26, 2022, 10:27:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:14:28 AM
Lets face it-these are not nice people, they exist in most parties, but DUP/SF probably worse for online gang bullying

Twitter a cesspit. Look at the abuse of Maria Cahill from shinners-people who pretend to be all for women's rights

Watch all the SF ones who hammered Doug all week row back now that their own are involved.

I hate this hole.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:34:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 26, 2022, 10:27:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:14:28 AM
Lets face it-these are not nice people, they exist in most parties, but DUP/SF probably worse for online gang bullying

Twitter a cesspit. Look at the abuse of Maria Cahill from shinners-people who pretend to be all for women's rights

Watch all the SF ones who hammered Doug all week row back now that their own are involved.

I hate this hole.

What did the SF ones tweet? As mentioned above, I refuse to contribute to Nolan's listenership figures, and I can't see a single one of the tweets being screenshot on twitter?

Oh and incidentally, when for instance, Barry McElduff posted his 'bread on the head' tweet, did Nolan give it one day then go hunting for tweets from a unionist party for the following day's show? Or did he just run with the McElduff "story" for a few days months? I just wonder  ???
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
All shinner mla Twitter accounts seem to be pushed to private. I will say the press team will be having a few busy days.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:38:43 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:27:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:20:24 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: skeog on January 26, 2022, 09:24:55 AM
SF getting some hammering on Nolan today. Ladies being called out for some vile tweets.

Haven't listened to that show in many years. My reasoning was vindicated once again last week when I was directed to the audio clip from one of his shows.

On the day the latest Ombudsman's report came out in relation to 19 cases of collusion, Nolan invited the daughter of the late Cllr Eddie Fullerton to talk about his murder and about the Ombusdman's findings of state collusion in the killing.

He thought it appropriate to challenge her on Eddie's membership of SF, and how she felt about the 'morality' of that. In other words, on a day when a murder victim's daughter was reeling with pain, he took the opportunity to take the "justification" his killers used for the murder, and throw it at his daughter as though it was a fair point.

He tried a few times to say he wasn't trying to justify the murder - but the question was so carefully worded that it stopped just short of asking "did he not deserve it?"

No harm, but anyone who contributes to his listener figures needs to step back and think about what they are enabling.

Diversion. Different subject, we all accept Eddie was murdered by state forces.

Of course we accept collusion in the murder. That's not the point of what I posted. The point of it (as I think everyone bar you can surely see) was the shockingly callous treatment of Eddie's daughter by Nolan when she was invited on to discuss his killing.

As for your "diversion" nonsense, someone mentioned the Nolan Show and I replied about the Nolan Show. Besides, would you ever f**k away off talking about diversion, you insufferable bore? There's barely a thread on this board that you haven't attempted to turn into a yapping session about SF.

You always seem to take time for me, odd for someone who is an insufferable bore in your eyes. It doesn't matter who reported today's story, if it was RTE they would have been anti northern free staters, always an excuse. As I said diversion, unsuccessful attempt btw, get a Nolan thread if that is your gripe here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:38:43 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:27:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:20:24 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: skeog on January 26, 2022, 09:24:55 AM
SF getting some hammering on Nolan today. Ladies being called out for some vile tweets.

Haven't listened to that show in many years. My reasoning was vindicated once again last week when I was directed to the audio clip from one of his shows.

On the day the latest Ombudsman's report came out in relation to 19 cases of collusion, Nolan invited the daughter of the late Cllr Eddie Fullerton to talk about his murder and about the Ombusdman's findings of state collusion in the killing.

He thought it appropriate to challenge her on Eddie's membership of SF, and how she felt about the 'morality' of that. In other words, on a day when a murder victim's daughter was reeling with pain, he took the opportunity to take the "justification" his killers used for the murder, and throw it at his daughter as though it was a fair point.

He tried a few times to say he wasn't trying to justify the murder - but the question was so carefully worded that it stopped just short of asking "did he not deserve it?"

No harm, but anyone who contributes to his listener figures needs to step back and think about what they are enabling.

Diversion. Different subject, we all accept Eddie was murdered by state forces.

Of course we accept collusion in the murder. That's not the point of what I posted. The point of it (as I think everyone bar you can surely see) was the shockingly callous treatment of Eddie's daughter by Nolan when she was invited on to discuss his killing.

As for your "diversion" nonsense, someone mentioned the Nolan Show and I replied about the Nolan Show. Besides, would you ever f**k away off talking about diversion, you insufferable bore? There's barely a thread on this board that you haven't attempted to turn into a yapping session about SF.

You always seem to take time for me, odd for someone who is an insufferable bore in your eyes. It doesn't matter who reported today's story, if it was RTE they would have been anti northern free staters, always an excuse. As I said diversion, unsuccessful attempt btw, get a Nolan thread if that is your gripe here.

Wasn't it you who replied to my post?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:39:40 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:34:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 26, 2022, 10:27:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:14:28 AM
Lets face it-these are not nice people, they exist in most parties, but DUP/SF probably worse for online gang bullying

Twitter a cesspit. Look at the abuse of Maria Cahill from shinners-people who pretend to be all for women's rights

Watch all the SF ones who hammered Doug all week row back now that their own are involved.

I hate this hole.

What did the SF ones tweet? As mentioned above, I refuse to contribute to Nolan's listenership figures, and I can't see a single one of the tweets being screenshot on twitter?

Oh and incidentally, when for instance, Barry McElduff posted his 'bread on the head' tweet, did Nolan give it one day then go hunting for tweets from a unionist party for the following day's show? Or did he just run with the McElduff "story" for a few days months? I just wonder  ???

Hookers, retards, huns just a few of the words used
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:45:23 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
All shinner mla Twitter accounts seem to be pushed to private. I will say the press team will be having a few busy days.

I did a wee spot check to verify your claim there "Truth Hurts"

Checked six or seven SF MLA accounts and all are public.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:45:23 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
All shinner mla Twitter accounts seem to be pushed to private. I will say the press team will be having a few busy days.

I did a wee spot check to verify your claim there "Truth Hurts"

Checked six or seven SF MLA accounts and all are public.

Lol your shiteing yerself
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 26, 2022, 10:49:51 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
All shinner mla Twitter accounts seem to be pushed to private. I will say the press team will be having a few busy days.

You sure? They look to be open.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:50:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:45:23 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
All shinner mla Twitter accounts seem to be pushed to private. I will say the press team will be having a few busy days.

I did a wee spot check to verify your claim there "Truth Hurts"

Checked six or seven SF MLA accounts and all are public.

Lol your shiteing yerself

"Shiteing myself"? Why would I be "Shiteing myself"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:50:57 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:50:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:45:23 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
All shinner mla Twitter accounts seem to be pushed to private. I will say the press team will be having a few busy days.

I did a wee spot check to verify your claim there "Truth Hurts"

Checked six or seven SF MLA accounts and all are public.

Lol your shiteing yerself

"Shiteing myself"? Why would I be "Shiteing myself"?

LMFAO
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:52:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:50:57 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:50:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:45:23 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
All shinner mla Twitter accounts seem to be pushed to private. I will say the press team will be having a few busy days.

I did a wee spot check to verify your claim there "Truth Hurts"

Checked six or seven SF MLA accounts and all are public.

Lol your shiteing yerself

"Shiteing myself"? Why would I be "Shiteing myself"?

LMFAO

C'mon I'm sure you're capable of adult conversation sometimes. Why would I be "Shiteing myself"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on January 26, 2022, 11:00:41 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:39:40 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:34:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 26, 2022, 10:27:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:14:28 AM
Lets face it-these are not nice people, they exist in most parties, but DUP/SF probably worse for online gang bullying

Twitter a cesspit. Look at the abuse of Maria Cahill from shinners-people who pretend to be all for women's rights

Watch all the SF ones who hammered Doug all week row back now that their own are involved.

I hate this hole.

What did the SF ones tweet? As mentioned above, I refuse to contribute to Nolan's listenership figures, and I can't see a single one of the tweets being screenshot on twitter?

Oh and incidentally, when for instance, Barry McElduff posted his 'bread on the head' tweet, did Nolan give it one day then go hunting for tweets from a unionist party for the following day's show? Or did he just run with the McElduff "story" for a few days months? I just wonder  ???

Hookers, retards, huns just a few of the words used

Yet Steko got overly animated when Sinead Ennis is supposed to have tweeted that Mary Peters was a "disingenuous bigot".

I don't know Mary but she very might well be..

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2022, 11:00:41 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:39:40 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:34:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 26, 2022, 10:27:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 10:14:28 AM
Lets face it-these are not nice people, they exist in most parties, but DUP/SF probably worse for online gang bullying

Twitter a cesspit. Look at the abuse of Maria Cahill from shinners-people who pretend to be all for women's rights

Watch all the SF ones who hammered Doug all week row back now that their own are involved.

I hate this hole.

What did the SF ones tweet? As mentioned above, I refuse to contribute to Nolan's listenership figures, and I can't see a single one of the tweets being screenshot on twitter?

Oh and incidentally, when for instance, Barry McElduff posted his 'bread on the head' tweet, did Nolan give it one day then go hunting for tweets from a unionist party for the following day's show? Or did he just run with the McElduff "story" for a few days months? I just wonder  ???

Hookers, retards, huns just a few of the words used

Yet Steko got overly animated when Sinead Ennis is supposed to have tweeted that Mary Peters was a "disingenuous bigot".

I don't know Mary but she very might well be..

Yeah as you said, you dont know her
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JoG2 on January 26, 2022, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 26, 2022, 10:11:04 AM
Said it before. Social media is the worst thing ever invented.

It's brutal, and that's only from looking at the odd tweet link I'll get sent. So much hate. No headspace for it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2022, 11:39:49 AM
It is really shaping society and it's not good tbh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on January 26, 2022, 11:40:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:45:23 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
All shinner mla Twitter accounts seem to be pushed to private. I will say the press team will be having a few busy days.

I did a wee spot check to verify your claim there "Truth Hurts"

Checked six or seven SF MLA accounts and all are public.

Gildernew and Dolan are doing a bit of deleting this morning!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 12:06:25 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 26, 2022, 11:40:28 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 10:45:23 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on January 26, 2022, 10:37:48 AM
All shinner mla Twitter accounts seem to be pushed to private. I will say the press team will be having a few busy days.

I did a wee spot check to verify your claim there "Truth Hurts"

Checked six or seven SF MLA accounts and all are public.

It seems they all are now. Shinner acivities suspended this morning to delete files lol Petty crap

Gildernew and Dolan are doing a bit of deleting this morning!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: yellowcard on January 26, 2022, 12:19:10 PM
It does show the stupidity of any politician if they still left old insulting tweets up after Doug Beattie had got caught out. Looks like SF have locked the stable door after the horse has bolted. I'm not sure of the content of these tweets but this bout of whataboutery will help mitigate the damage suffered by Beattie in the last few days.

With the uncovering of these tweets, the complete irony in all of this is that it has been a good 48 hours for the DUP. They have dented both the UUP and now SF as well because ultimately all of this has come about since an election is on the horizon.     
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2022, 12:22:17 PM
It also helps that no matter how bad what they tweet etc is they are never ashamed of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 12:35:09 PM
There is an app which shows when an MP deletes a tweet so any SF MPs deleting tweets will in fact be drawing attention to them lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 12:39:11 PM
be all forgotten in few months when we enter the sectarian headcount -policies etc will be irrelevant

SF v DUP

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2022, 12:44:05 PM
I do think the DUP have basically stuck the boot in with Beattie and yes you're right. It's the usual - SF vs DUP. Depressing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 12:52:08 PM
People are entitled to vote for SF, the DUP, or whomever. The constitutional issue is the single greatest political issue we face in the north. Everything else - health, economics etc depends on how it is resolved. You can't therefor expect people not to vote for the parties they feel best represent their stance on that issue. Wanting a united Ireland is not sectarian. Wanting union with Britain is not sectarian. Voting for the parties which you feel best protect your interest in that regard, is not sectarian.

Lazily terming the strength of SF and DUP as a "sectarian headcount" is just SDLP-esque analysis - 'if you don't vote for us, you're a big sectarian'.

Pure nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 26, 2022, 12:56:06 PM
Never understood the whole "we have to make NI work first".

Why? It's been proven extensively that a statelet so small is completely incapable of "working".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 01:34:21 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 12:52:08 PM
People are entitled to vote for SF, the DUP, or whomever. The constitutional issue is the single greatest political issue we face in the north. Everything else - health, economics etc depends on how it is resolved. You can't therefor expect people not to vote for the parties they feel best represent their stance on that issue. Wanting a united Ireland is not sectarian. Wanting union with Britain is not sectarian. Voting for the parties which you feel best protect your interest in that regard, is not sectarian.

Lazily terming the strength of SF and DUP as a "sectarian headcount" is just SDLP-esque analysis - 'if you don't vote for us, you're a big sectarian'.

Pure nonsense.

My point is both sides have people who haven't a clue about policies but will vote to ensure the other doesn't get first minister.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Denn Forever on January 26, 2022, 01:43:53 PM
I'd say it is the UK government that is worried as the Welsh That may break up the UK. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-58954054
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 26, 2022, 01:34:21 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 26, 2022, 12:52:08 PM
People are entitled to vote for SF, the DUP, or whomever. The constitutional issue is the single greatest political issue we face in the north. Everything else - health, economics etc depends on how it is resolved. You can't therefor expect people not to vote for the parties they feel best represent their stance on that issue. Wanting a united Ireland is not sectarian. Wanting union with Britain is not sectarian. Voting for the parties which you feel best protect your interest in that regard, is not sectarian.

Lazily terming the strength of SF and DUP as a "sectarian headcount" is just SDLP-esque analysis - 'if you don't vote for us, you're a big sectarian'.

Pure nonsense.

My point is both sides have people who haven't a clue about policies but will vote to ensure the other doesn't get first minister.

Surely the First Minister sideshow had been a debate entirely within unionism? It's the unionist parties that have been challenging each other to state if they would work in the Assembly under a SF First Minister.

SF have often suggested they would change the titles to Joint First Ministers if they were to get the opportunity. Certainly I have never heard of anyone giving the First Minister role reason for wanting to vote SF. Besides, this is the first time SF are in with a genuine shout at becoming first minister, yet the lazy bullsh1t line of "sectarian head-count" has been fired at them and the DUP by people (SDLP in particular) going back a heck of a lot longer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2022, 11:59:30 AM
Woman overboard
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40816254.html

It seems to me that Violet-Anne Wynne was not exactly traditional SF and she likely didn't fully fit in with the cult and likely wouldn't in any party. 
I expect though that Jim Allister will say that she left because she as a Protestant!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 25, 2022, 12:47:55 PM
There must be as many Shinner "gene pool" Independents now as Blueshirt and Builders Party ones?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2022, 01:40:59 PM
The Irish Times today notes the SF has not only changed its tune on Russia, but have deleted a lot of "outdated" statements from their website that do not suit the new position. There doesn't seem to be much reflection on why they ever supported Russia.

Among the pronouncements Sinn Féin presumably wishes to forget are then-MEP Lynn Boylan's suggestion in 2019 that the EU was being "overly confrontational" towards Russia. Four years earlier, Boylan joined the party's other MEPs in abstaining on an "unbalanced" resolution condemning rights abuses in Russia and criticising Russia's annexation of Crimea.

In 2018, party leader Mary Lou McDonald claimed Ireland had breached its military neutrality when it expelled a Russian diplomat after Russia's deployment of a chemical weapon in England. Former foreign affairs spokesman Seán Crowe called for the abolition of Nato, a "Cold War relic" whose positions "have always been wrong".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 16, 2022, 01:48:38 PM
It's interesting how newsworthy this is, in comparison to other parties doing the exact same.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2022, 02:59:59 PM
the party has been infiltrated by communists a long time ago
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2022, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 16, 2022, 01:48:38 PM
It's interesting how newsworthy this is, in comparison to other parties doing the exact same.

Which other parties of any use abstained on the vote condemning the Russian invasion of Crimea?
I genuinely want to know so I can avoid them too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on March 16, 2022, 05:32:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2022, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 16, 2022, 01:48:38 PM
It's interesting how newsworthy this is, in comparison to other parties doing the exact same.

Which other parties of any use abstained on the vote condemning the Russian invasion of Crimea?
I genuinely want to know so I can avoid them too.
Do you think a party changing positions is good or bad?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2022, 07:50:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 16, 2022, 05:32:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2022, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 16, 2022, 01:48:38 PM
It's interesting how newsworthy this is, in comparison to other parties doing the exact same.

Which other parties of any use abstained on the vote condemning the Russian invasion of Crimea?
I genuinely want to know so I can avoid them too.
Do you think a party changing positions is good or bad?

Must be good for SF anyhow because they were anti EU few years back as well
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 18, 2022, 08:25:41 AM
Id have thought a party changing position was a good thing and was something to be commended, particularly in the light of an unprovoked invasion.
To do so otherwise shows stubbornness.
Yet trash will try to make a story out of something because folks who dislike SF will lap the story up and buy their newspaper, increasing circulation numbers and advertising revenue.

Maybe these people would prefer SF were like the TUV?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 18, 2022, 09:47:36 AM
I see Micheal Martin too the opportunity to fake a dig at SF for removing old statements from their website. He called it "Orwellian".

The very next day, it transpired that FF had also removed every statement from their website that pre-dated Martin becoming party leader.

He has, shockingly, refused to comment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 18, 2022, 09:48:16 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/nfVR1rh/putin.png)

Do you think these lads have changed their view on Russia? Should they be criticised for changing stance too?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 10:00:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 18, 2022, 09:48:16 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/nfVR1rh/putin.png)

Do you think these lads have changed their view on Russia? Should they be criticised for changing stance too?

Who cares
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 10:02:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 18, 2022, 08:25:41 AM
Id have thought a party changing position was a good thing and was something to be commended, particularly in the light of an unprovoked invasion.
To do so otherwise shows stubbornness.
Yet trash will try to make a story out of something because folks who dislike SF will lap the story up and buy their newspaper, increasing circulation numbers and advertising revenue.

Maybe these people would prefer SF were like the TUV?

It's good to be open to change but it's not so good to await public opinion polls etc and then do it

Shallow look
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 18, 2022, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 10:02:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 18, 2022, 08:25:41 AM
Id have thought a party changing position was a good thing and was something to be commended, particularly in the light of an unprovoked invasion.
To do so otherwise shows stubbornness.
Yet trash will try to make a story out of something because folks who dislike SF will lap the story up and buy their newspaper, increasing circulation numbers and advertising revenue.

Maybe these people would prefer SF were like the TUV?

It's good to be open to change but it's not so good to await public opinion polls etc and then do it

Shallow look

Awaiting opinion polls? How do you figure that? Aren't there opinion polls on an almost weekly/bi-weekly basis?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 04:10:32 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 18, 2022, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 10:02:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 18, 2022, 08:25:41 AM
Id have thought a party changing position was a good thing and was something to be commended, particularly in the light of an unprovoked invasion.
To do so otherwise shows stubbornness.
Yet trash will try to make a story out of something because folks who dislike SF will lap the story up and buy their newspaper, increasing circulation numbers and advertising revenue.

Maybe these people would prefer SF were like the TUV?

It's good to be open to change but it's not so good to await public opinion polls etc and then do it

Shallow look

Awaiting opinion polls? How do you figure that? Aren't there opinion polls on an almost weekly/bi-weekly basis?

Yeah
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 18, 2022, 09:21:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 04:10:32 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 18, 2022, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 10:02:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 18, 2022, 08:25:41 AM
Id have thought a party changing position was a good thing and was something to be commended, particularly in the light of an unprovoked invasion.
To do so otherwise shows stubbornness.
Yet trash will try to make a story out of something because folks who dislike SF will lap the story up and buy their newspaper, increasing circulation numbers and advertising revenue.

Maybe these people would prefer SF were like the TUV?

It's good to be open to change but it's not so good to await public opinion polls etc and then do it

Shallow look

Awaiting opinion polls? How do you figure that? Aren't there opinion polls on an almost weekly/bi-weekly basis?

Yeah
Yeah thought you were talking a bit of dung alright  ;) Thanks for confirming.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
When you're a populist party like  SF with no polices you have to expect this ridiculous carry on.

All they are about is criticising everything. The day they have to actually make major decisions in government is a frightening day. They've no history of governing &all they do is shout sound bites they think the electorate will like.

Basic things like budgets & limited spending are meaningless to them & that's a frightening thought
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 10:16:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 18, 2022, 09:21:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 04:10:32 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 18, 2022, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 10:02:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 18, 2022, 08:25:41 AM
Id have thought a party changing position was a good thing and was something to be commended, particularly in the light of an unprovoked invasion.
To do so otherwise shows stubbornness.
Yet trash will try to make a story out of something because folks who dislike SF will lap the story up and buy their newspaper, increasing circulation numbers and advertising revenue.

Maybe these people would prefer SF were like the TUV?

It's good to be open to change but it's not so good to await public opinion polls etc and then do it

Shallow look

Awaiting opinion polls? How do you figure that? Aren't there opinion polls on an almost weekly/bi-weekly basis?

Yeah
Yeah thought you were talking a bit of dung alright  ;) Thanks for confirming.

Nope
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 18, 2022, 10:17:41 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
When you're a populist party like  SF with no polices you have to expect this ridiculous carry on.

All they are about is criticising everything. The day they have to actually make major decisions in government is a frightening day. They've no history of governing &all they do is shout sound bites they think the electorate will like.

Basic things like budgets & limited spending are meaningless to them & that's a frightening thought

100 percent
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 18, 2022, 10:29:39 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
When you're a populist party like  SF with no polices you have to expect this ridiculous carry on.

All they are about is criticising everything. The day they have to actually make major decisions in government is a frightening day. They've no history of governing &all they do is shout sound bites they think the electorate will like.

Basic things like budgets & limited spending are meaningless to them & that's a frightening thought

Takes a fair idiot who'd think a proven track record of f**k ups while governing is looked upon favourable but there you go....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on March 18, 2022, 10:46:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 18, 2022, 10:29:39 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
When you're a populist party like  SF with no polices you have to expect this ridiculous carry on.

All they are about is criticising everything. The day they have to actually make major decisions in government is a frightening day. They've no history of governing &all they do is shout sound bites they think the electorate will like.

Basic things like budgets & limited spending are meaningless to them & that's a frightening thought

Takes a fair idiot who'd think a proven track record of f**k ups while governing is looked upon favourable but there you go....
To be fair they do have a history of government in the North albeit it's a Mickey Mouse operation, they are in a coalition and they can blame Tory austerity. But I can't think of too many successes, unless you want to count the odd handout policy, which are grand, unless you're in a real government and actually need to balance the books.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 18, 2022, 10:48:25 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 18, 2022, 10:46:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 18, 2022, 10:29:39 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
When you're a populist party like  SF with no polices you have to expect this ridiculous carry on.

All they are about is criticising everything. The day they have to actually make major decisions in government is a frightening day. They've no history of governing &all they do is shout sound bites they think the electorate will like.

Basic things like budgets & limited spending are meaningless to them & that's a frightening thought

Takes a fair idiot who'd think a proven track record of f**k ups while governing is looked upon favourable but there you go....
To be fair they do have a history of government in the North albeit it's a Mickey Mouse operation, they are in a coalition and they can blame Tory austerity. But I can't think of too many successes, unless you want to count the odd handout policy, which are grand, unless you're in a real government and actually need to balance the books.

That's fair enough. Then they do have a history of governance and D7 was wrong again.
Power sharing is a much different beast as I'm sure your aware.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 19, 2022, 07:49:04 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
When you're a populist party like  SF with no polices you have to expect this ridiculous carry on.
You do know that FF also wiped old statements from their website?

Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
All they are about is criticising everything. The day they have to actually make major decisions in government is a frightening day.

Basic things like budgets & limited spending are meaningless to them & that's a frightening thought

lol the Blueshirt fanboy is trying to lecture on budgets and spending!!!
The party that gave us National Childrens Hospital - set to be the most expensive hospital building in the world, and of the most expensive buildings in the world of any description, thanks to a FG managed €1.7 BILLION overspend. To put that in context - the Burj Khalifa (the tallest building in the world) total build cost was less than just the overspend on the Childrens Hospital. Tell me more about how good they are at budgeting again will you?!lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 07:57:27 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 19, 2022, 07:49:04 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
When you're a populist party like  SF with no polices you have to expect this ridiculous carry on.
You do know that FF also wiped old statements from their website?

Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
All they are about is criticising everything. The day they have to actually make major decisions in government is a frightening day.

Basic things like budgets & limited spending are meaningless to them & that's a frightening thought

lol the Blueshirt fanboy is trying to lecture on budgets and spending!!!
The party that gave us National Childrens Hospital - set to be the most expensive hospital building in the world, and of the most expensive buildings in the world of any description, thanks to a FG managed €1.7 BILLION overspend. To put that in context - the Burj Khalifa (the tallest building in the world) total build cost was less than just the overspend on the Childrens Hospital. Tell me more about how good they are at budgeting again will you?!lol

That's incredible. Not enough people know this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 19, 2022, 08:07:55 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 07:57:27 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 19, 2022, 07:49:04 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
When you're a populist party like  SF with no polices you have to expect this ridiculous carry on.
You do know that FF also wiped old statements from their website?

Quote from: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
All they are about is criticising everything. The day they have to actually make major decisions in government is a frightening day.

Basic things like budgets & limited spending are meaningless to them & that's a frightening thought

lol the Blueshirt fanboy is trying to lecture on budgets and spending!!!
The party that gave us National Childrens Hospital - set to be the most expensive hospital building in the world, and of the most expensive buildings in the world of any description, thanks to a FG managed €1.7 BILLION overspend. To put that in context - the Burj Khalifa (the tallest building in the world) total build cost was less than just the overspend on the Childrens Hospital. Tell me more about how good they are at budgeting again will you?!lol

That's incredible. Not enough people know this.

Apologies I meant the NCH overspend was only just less that cost it build the Burj Khalifa. Overspend set to be at least €1bn. Burj Khalifa in total cost £1.3bn. Staggering.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2022, 08:48:57 AM
As a northerner I'm astounded at how far behind the south we are on absolutely everything bar possibly the NHS. As a Derry man , we have fallen further behind in almost every league table since peace arrived. Was in Letterkenny yesterday  buzzing,
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:13:52 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2022, 08:48:57 AM
As a northerner I'm astounded at how far behind the south we are on absolutely everything bar possibly the NHS. As a Derry man , we have fallen further behind in almost every league table since peace arrived. Was in Letterkenny yesterday  buzzing,

The North is a hole. At least we agree on that Fear  :D
Not sold on the NHS being better either.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 19, 2022, 09:58:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2022, 08:48:57 AM
As a northerner I'm astounded at how far behind the south we are on absolutely everything.
Seriously? Did you think the north was an economically viable entity or something?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2022, 10:19:54 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 19, 2022, 09:58:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2022, 08:48:57 AM
As a northerner I'm astounded at how far behind the south we are on absolutely everything.
Seriously? Did you think the north was an economically viable entity or something?

Until the late 80s we were away ahead. Successive government in the Republic have been excellent in pushing their economy on. Medical devices being only one example. Manufacturing has died in the north
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 19, 2022, 10:44:33 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:13:52 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2022, 08:48:57 AM
As a northerner I'm astounded at how far behind the south we are on absolutely everything bar possibly the NHS. As a Derry man , we have fallen further behind in almost every league table since peace arrived. Was in Letterkenny yesterday  buzzing,

The North is a hole. At least we agree on that Fear  :D
Not sold on the NHS being better either.

The uk is slowly being pushed towards an American style healthcare system. Nhs in a bad place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 19, 2022, 11:07:47 AM
Could SF/Snapchap tell us how the Hospital overspend could have been avoided without it being a basic 4 walls, roof and long rows of beds?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tyrone08 on March 19, 2022, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2022, 11:07:47 AM
Could SF/Snapchap tell us how the Hospital overspend could have been avoided without it being a basic 4 walls, roof and long rows of beds?

Wouldn't it have been a good place to start to set a realistic budget to begin with. I am continually astound as to how large scale projects with government run way over budget. They pay huge sums to project managers and no one is held to account.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 19, 2022, 11:28:08 AM
They should of course have built it in a green field in the grounds of Tallaght or Connolly Hospitals instead of an inner city site.
The Hospital Consultants didn't want to have to travel 5 miles though and to hell with patients trying to beat their way through traffic etc.
Of course the precedent was set with fkn Bertie approving it for his Constituency originally.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2022, 12:28:56 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 19, 2022, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2022, 11:07:47 AM
Could SF/Snapchap tell us how the Hospital overspend could have been avoided without it being a basic 4 walls, roof and long rows of beds?

Wouldn't it have been a good place to start to set a realistic budget to begin with. I am continually astound as to how large scale projects with government run way over budget. They pay huge sums to project managers and no one is held to account.

Nearly remind you of Casement Park
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on March 19, 2022, 09:57:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2022, 10:19:54 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 19, 2022, 09:58:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2022, 08:48:57 AM
As a northerner I'm astounded at how far behind the south we are on absolutely everything.
Seriously? Did you think the north was an economically viable entity or something?

Until the late 80s we were away ahead. Successive government in the Republic have been excellent in pushing their economy on. Medical devices being only one example. Manufacturing has died in the north
Mandatory coalition explains a lot Fear.  They dither and argue rather than making decisions.  It would be hard to make a success of anywhere in the world never mind here.  Plus our MLAs largely are a bunch of amateur and the civil service is a bureaucratic swamp. Throw in lack of scale, riots etc and it's truth is we're going nowhere fast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 19, 2022, 10:33:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2022, 11:07:47 AM
Could SF/Snapchap tell us how the Hospital overspend could have been avoided without it being a basic 4 walls, roof and long rows of beds?

:o WTF are you asking me that for? If it was inevitable that it was going to cost comfortably over €2bn then maybe the question you should be asking is why was Varadkar, only four years ago, announcing that it was going to cost €900m.

"How could the overspend have been avoided" lol. Well if we can't blame the government who budgeted it at €900m, then it must be nobody's fault  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 19, 2022, 11:36:10 PM
Typical Shinner moan complain jibe know it all till asked "what would you do".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on March 20, 2022, 06:43:08 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2022, 11:36:10 PM
Typical Shinner moan complain jibe know it all till asked "what would you do".

Typical blueshirt response. Excuse gross incompetence and keep voting as before.

Would would I have done? What does that matter? I'm not the f**king Taoiseach. But sure since you asked, I'd have simply budgeted accurately. You implied that it was always going to cost over €2bn. If even you knew that, why did the FG government not know that as recently as four years ago when they said it would cost €900m?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2022, 08:11:43 AM
The main problem is the Union.

The UK focuses on SE England. Regions get ignored. Northern England, the English Midlands and Wales are in the same boat as NI.
NI was richer than the South when it had industry and high protestant productivity.
But the industries collapsed.
Deindustrialisation was dealt with by social welfare rather than investment. UK productivity is very poor.

NI also has polarised education and the aftermath of the war.

The RoI has a volatile economic model made up of a profitable multinational part and a mediocre domestic part.
.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2022, 08:22:23 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 20, 2022, 06:43:08 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2022, 11:36:10 PM
Typical Shinner moan complain jibe know it all till asked "what would you do".

Typical blueshirt response. Excuse gross incompetence and keep voting as before.

Would would I have done? What does that matter? I'm not the f**king Taoiseach. But sure since you asked, I'd have simply budgeted accurately. You implied that it was always going to cost over €2bn. If even you knew that, why did the FG government not know that as recently as four years ago when they said it would cost €900m?
€2bn is grand. The Government is flúirseach. Corporate Tax is booming. As McCreevy said , when he has the money he spends it. The Dept of Finance are still gobshites.





The key thing is what happens when the money runs out. If the Shinners are in charge they will be destroyed.


"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it." Oscar Wilde


https://youtu.be/pFS4zYWxzNA
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on May 25, 2022, 01:09:35 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/mary-lou-mcdonalds-defamation-case-against-rte-alarming-41685815.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2022, 07:16:55 PM
Conor Murphy and Michelle o Neil fecking stoops
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 04, 2022, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2022, 07:16:55 PM
Conor Murphy and Michelle o Neil fecking stoops
Agreed for once.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on June 04, 2022, 03:08:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2022, 07:16:55 PM
Conor Murphy and Michelle o Neil fecking stoops
Disappointing, Id have found it a bit more palatable if MLMcD took care of that side of things.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 04, 2022, 04:04:16 PM
It's the hypocrisy more than anything else. FF/FG/SDLP would have been ripped to pieces for this
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on June 04, 2022, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 04, 2022, 04:04:16 PM
It's the hypocrisy more than anything else. FF/FG/SDLP would have been ripped to pieces for this

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on June 04, 2022, 08:34:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 04, 2022, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 04, 2022, 04:04:16 PM
It's the hypocrisy more than anything else. FF/FG/SDLP would have been ripped to pieces for this

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

He is correct on this occasion. The local councillors didn't even reply to the invitation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 04, 2022, 08:53:59 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 04, 2022, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 04, 2022, 04:04:16 PM
It's the hypocrisy more than anything else. FF/FG/SDLP would have been ripped to pieces for this

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Hypocrite
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on June 04, 2022, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 04, 2022, 08:53:59 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 04, 2022, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 04, 2022, 04:04:16 PM
It's the hypocrisy more than anything else. FF/FG/SDLP would have been ripped to pieces for this

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Hypocrite

Change the record, you bore.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 16, 2022, 02:38:29 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

The story becomes pointless when he stated that Doherty was too young to get a conviction at the time.

So essentially he was a child. Who cares what he did. Who didn't shout at the army/ police growing up?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StephenC on June 16, 2022, 02:42:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 16, 2022, 02:38:29 PM
Who didn't shout at the army/ police growing up?

People who grew up in Donegal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 16, 2022, 03:49:30 PM
Didn't really happen where I was at but not long before I was born the cop station was blown up and never replaced so ther were never very many army / cops round where I lived.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 16, 2022, 06:05:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

lol so Varadkar dug up some misdemeanor in Pearse Doherty's childhood to deflect attention from the fact that he himself is CURRENTLY under criminal investigation for misconduct in office while he was the actual Taoiseach, and you reckon it's Doherty that comes out looking like the tool?Lol. OK.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on June 16, 2022, 06:07:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 16, 2022, 02:38:29 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

The story becomes pointless when he stated that Doherty was too young to get a conviction at the time.

So essentially he was a child. Who cares what he did. Who didn't shout at the army/ police growing up?

People from the 26 counties
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on June 16, 2022, 06:09:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

Desperation level 10 from you. Laughable. Jaysus, the Blue Shirts and FF are really shitting themselves that their game's well and truly up.   ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 16, 2022, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 16, 2022, 06:09:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

Desperation level 10 from you. Laughable. Jaysus, the Blue Shirts and FF are really shitting themselves that their game's well and truly up.   ;D

FFG are so out of touch with the situation at the minute regardsing cost of living, health and especially the housing/rent crisis.

No plans to do anything until the budget  in October time - not reading the moos of the people at all.

Playing into SF's hands big time. .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 16, 2022, 07:04:20 PM
Great time to be in opposition!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:14:46 PM
Quote from: StephenC on June 16, 2022, 02:42:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 16, 2022, 02:38:29 PM
Who didn't shout at the army/ police growing up?

People who grew up in Donegal.

Boom! Makes me laugh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:16:00 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 16, 2022, 06:05:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

lol so Varadkar dug up some misdemeanor in Pearse Doherty's childhood to deflect attention from the fact that he himself is CURRENTLY under criminal investigation for misconduct in office while he was the actual Taoiseach, and you reckon it's Doherty that comes out looking like the tool?Lol. OK.

The line went out and the usual fish wur landed..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:17:19 PM
 :We never ever found out about Doherty's dodgy donations in Ballyshannon
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 16, 2022, 07:53:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 16, 2022, 07:04:20 PM
Great time to be in opposition!

Too easy for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 16, 2022, 09:04:27 PM
Lads if you're replying to Fear seriously on any topic Sinn Fein related more fool you... Fair play Fear you can catch them the best!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2022, 09:08:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 16, 2022, 09:04:27 PM
Lads if you're replying to Fear seriously on any topic Sinn Fein related more fool you... Fair play Fear you can catch them the best!

To be fair it's usually like shooting fish in a barrel to pull his posts apart. Be rude not to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 09:29:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 16, 2022, 09:04:27 PM
Lads if you're replying to Fear seriously on any topic Sinn Fein related more fool you... Fair play Fear you can catch them the best!

As someone said it's too easy . Wee red heads and veins bulging as we speak.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2022, 09:08:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 16, 2022, 09:04:27 PM
Lads if you're replying to Fear seriously on any topic Sinn Fein related more fool you... Fair play Fear you can catch them the best!

To be fair it's usually like shooting fish in a barrel to pull his posts apart. Be rude not to.

Ah if it isn't oul Columbo himself lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on June 16, 2022, 10:19:47 PM
Are you getting any winners at ascot fear ? You in while bad form these days mo chara. Are we not all relatively on the same page?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 10:34:53 PM
Am in great oul form to be honest , yep I'm grand anyhow in the knowledge that I'm a republican, speak my native tongue , play our native games, do an honest days work and don't dump babies in the bin . Oh and I dont thieve , dodge, scam , bully , protect paedos or anything like that..as I said feeling good.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2022, 10:42:51 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2022, 09:08:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 16, 2022, 09:04:27 PM
Lads if you're replying to Fear seriously on any topic Sinn Fein related more fool you... Fair play Fear you can catch them the best!

To be fair it's usually like shooting fish in a barrel to pull his posts apart. Be rude not to.

Ah if it isn't oul Columbo himself lol

I can see the vein starting to bulge. T'is just a chat board. Enjoy if. 😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 16, 2022, 10:50:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 10:34:53 PM
Am in great oul form to be honest , yep I'm grand anyhow in the knowledge that I'm a republican, speak my native tongue , play our native games, do an honest days work and don't dump babies in the bin . Oh and I dont thieve , dodge, scam , bully , protect paedos or anything like that..as I said feeling good.

Me thinks you doth protest too much!  :)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 16, 2022, 10:50:24 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on June 16, 2022, 10:19:47 PM
Are you getting any winners at ascot fear ? You in while bad form these days mo chara. Are we not all relatively on the same page?
Would like to think most on here are anyway!  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: restorepride on June 17, 2022, 12:29:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 10:34:53 PM
Am in great oul form to be honest , yep I'm grand anyhow in the knowledge that I'm a republican, speak my native tongue , play our native games, do an honest days work and don't dump babies in the bin . Oh and I dont thieve , dodge, scam , bully , protect paedos or anything like that..as I said feeling good.
Yet you have just made a sweeping, arrogant and ignorant comment re babies in a bin. Are you a priest or just blinded by a chauvinistic upbringing? Certainly a greater-than-thou rant reminiscent of Catholic Ireland at its holiest. Try confessions, priests can pass nothing on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on June 17, 2022, 01:16:19 AM
Seems there are possibilities of personal feuds going a bit too far here.

Let me remind everyone that feud participants will be banned.

Up to you now, you know who you are. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 17, 2022, 09:08:09 AM
This is getting up to the US politics thread level!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho

Fear seems to be a big FG man.

Key issue here is the current government is doing nothing about the current cost of living crisis.  They will sit on their hands until the next budget 4 or 5 months away and put their fingers in their ears until such time.

Playing into the opposition hands.

Varadkar created more publicity for SF by his childidh outburst. He needs a course in PR asap.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho

Fear seems to be a big FG man.

Key issue here is the current government is doing nothing about the current cost of living crisis.  They will sit on their hands until the next budget 4 or 5 months away and put their fingers in their ears until such time.

Playing into the opposition hands.

Varadkar created more publicity for SF by his childidh outburst. He needs a course in PR asap.

There's a certain level of either wilful ignorance or stupidity involved there. This was the tactics they used previously and it backfired on them. People got sick of the obvious attempts to twist anything going on into a stick to beat SF with. Same happened up here with SDLP imo. SF have enough f**k ups and genuine issues  that could be easily attacked as and when they happen without manufacturing ones. It's too forced and transparent and voters got turned off by it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2022, 10:39:14 AM
Leo is only warning you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho

Fear seems to be a big FG man.

Key issue here is the current government is doing nothing about the current cost of living crisis.  They will sit on their hands until the next budget 4 or 5 months away and put their fingers in their ears until such time.

Playing into the opposition hands.

Varadkar created more publicity for SF by his childidh outburst. He needs a course in PR asap.

There's a certain level of either wilful ignorance or stupidity involved there. This was the tactics they used previously and it backfired on them. People got sick of the obvious attempts to twist anything going on into a stick to beat SF with. Same happened up here with SDLP imo. SF have enough f**k ups and genuine issues  that could be easily attacked as and when they happen without manufacturing ones. It's too forced and transparent and voters got turned off by it.

So Varadker's criminal issues are fair game but Doherty's aren't?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2022, 10:45:44 AM
Quote from: restorepride on June 17, 2022, 12:29:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 10:34:53 PM
Am in great oul form to be honest , yep I'm grand anyhow in the knowledge that I'm a republican, speak my native tongue , play our native games, do an honest days work and don't dump babies in the bin . Oh and I dont thieve , dodge, scam , bully , protect paedos or anything like that..as I said feeling good.
Yet you have just made a sweeping, arrogant and ignorant comment re babies in a bin. Are you a priest or just blinded by a chauvinistic upbringing? Certainly a greater-than-thou rant reminiscent of Catholic Ireland at its holiest. Try confessions, priests can pass nothing on.

dont go to mass-sorry. Morals and religion are not the same thing, and I certainly not a chauvinist or you havent been following my comments at all here or on other threads.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:49:25 AM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho

Fear seems to be a big FG man.

Key issue here is the current government is doing nothing about the current cost of living crisis.  They will sit on their hands until the next budget 4 or 5 months away and put their fingers in their ears until such time.

Playing into the opposition hands.

Varadkar created more publicity for SF by his childidh outburst. He needs a course in PR asap.

There's a certain level of either wilful ignorance or stupidity involved there. This was the tactics they used previously and it backfired on them. People got sick of the obvious attempts to twist anything going on into a stick to beat SF with. Same happened up here with SDLP imo. SF have enough f**k ups and genuine issues  that could be easily attacked as and when they happen without manufacturing ones. It's too forced and transparent and voters got turned off by it.

So Varadker's criminal issues are fair game but Doherty's aren't?
FFS a incident 3 decades ago verses one that is being looked at now. Your clutching and you know you are.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2022, 10:51:44 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 17, 2022, 01:16:19 AM
Seems there are possibilities of personal feuds going a bit too far here.

Let me remind everyone that feud participants will be banned.

Up to you now, you know who you are.

Ban away, no loss to me anyhow, probably a good way to make this an anti SF free zone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 17, 2022, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2022, 10:51:44 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 17, 2022, 01:16:19 AM
Seems there are possibilities of personal feuds going a bit too far here.

Let me remind everyone that feud participants will be banned.

Up to you now, you know who you are.

Ban away, no loss to me anyhow, probably a good way to make this an anti SF free zone.

Everything should be debated no doubt, but you do have a strong agenda on SF, whether that's warranted or not its OTT.

Taking criticism on your views is part and parcel of putting your views out there, you and they can't be right all the time, I know we think were are right all the time in life, but unfortunately we aint!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2022, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 17, 2022, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2022, 10:51:44 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 17, 2022, 01:16:19 AM
Seems there are possibilities of personal feuds going a bit too far here.

Let me remind everyone that feud participants will be banned.

Up to you now, you know who you are.

Ban away, no loss to me anyhow, probably a good way to make this an anti SF free zone.

Everything should be debated no doubt, but you do have a strong agenda on SF, whether that's warranted or not its OTT.

Taking criticism on your views is part and parcel of putting your views out there, you and they can't be right all the time, I know we think were are right all the time in life, but unfortunately we aint!

Its OTT to you. But then again when you are a minority voice you need to shout louder and more often. I never said I was right all the time at any point, be a hard way to go through life, criticism more than welcome.

I will take the ban, bit like the BBC ban of SF in the 80s lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 17, 2022, 11:16:16 AM
Yous are arguing over whether you should like a political party or not with strangers on the Internet from behind an anonymous profile.

Go out and enjoy your Fridays.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 11:17:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:49:25 AM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho

Fear seems to be a big FG man.

Key issue here is the current government is doing nothing about the current cost of living crisis.  They will sit on their hands until the next budget 4 or 5 months away and put their fingers in their ears until such time.

Playing into the opposition hands.

Varadkar created more publicity for SF by his childidh outburst. He needs a course in PR asap.

There's a certain level of either wilful ignorance or stupidity involved there. This was the tactics they used previously and it backfired on them. People got sick of the obvious attempts to twist anything going on into a stick to beat SF with. Same happened up here with SDLP imo. SF have enough f**k ups and genuine issues  that could be easily attacked as and when they happen without manufacturing ones. It's too forced and transparent and voters got turned off by it.

So Varadker's criminal issues are fair game but Doherty's aren't?
FFS a incident 3 decades ago verses one that is being looked at now. Your clutching and you know you are.

Doherty was charged and convicted of a crime which is more than what has so far happened with Varadker. IF he's happy to pull legal issues into a Dail debate he should be prepared to have his own examined.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mourne Red on June 17, 2022, 11:21:47 AM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 11:17:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:49:25 AM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho

Fear seems to be a big FG man.

Key issue here is the current government is doing nothing about the current cost of living crisis.  They will sit on their hands until the next budget 4 or 5 months away and put their fingers in their ears until such time.

Playing into the opposition hands.

Varadkar created more publicity for SF by his childidh outburst. He needs a course in PR asap.

There's a certain level of either wilful ignorance or stupidity involved there. This was the tactics they used previously and it backfired on them. People got sick of the obvious attempts to twist anything going on into a stick to beat SF with. Same happened up here with SDLP imo. SF have enough f**k ups and genuine issues  that could be easily attacked as and when they happen without manufacturing ones. It's too forced and transparent and voters got turned off by it.

So Varadker's criminal issues are fair game but Doherty's aren't?
FFS a incident 3 decades ago verses one that is being looked at now. Your clutching and you know you are.

Doherty was charged and convicted of a crime which is more than what has so far happened with Varadker. IF he's happy to pull legal issues into a Dail debate he should be prepared to have his own examined.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/i-m-not-going-to-go-into-any-more-detail-varadkar-faces-drugs-question-again-1.4149131 - Just because Varadkar didn't get caught. Would have been charged/convicted with possession?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 11:30:13 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2022, 10:51:44 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 17, 2022, 01:16:19 AM
Seems there are possibilities of personal feuds going a bit too far here.

Let me remind everyone that feud participants will be banned.

Up to you now, you know who you are.

Ban away, no loss to me anyhow, probably a good way to make this an anti SF free zone.

A lot of anger with Fear.  He should be writing for the Newsletter....lol.

As I said, Leo attracting more attention on his governments's failures. 

No comparion between what Doherty did - people don't care.

It'll not be long until Leo is Taoiseach.  It'll be interesting to see what his and FG's approach will be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 17, 2022, 11:23:26 AM
I suppose the obvious question is how much more is there to examine? As you say, he was charged & convicted.

The same could be said of Doherty. Varadker's file is with the DPP, they're awaiting a decision, what else was to be gained by bringing it up in the Dail? It was clearly an attempt at political mud-slinging, fair enough, politics is a dirty game. But you can hardly cry foul when Varadker throws some mud back.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 11:56:00 AM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 17, 2022, 11:23:26 AM
I suppose the obvious question is how much more is there to examine? As you say, he was charged & convicted.

The same could be said of Doherty. Varadker's file is with the DPP, they're awaiting a decision, what else was to be gained by bringing it up in the Dail? It was clearly an attempt at political mud-slinging, fair enough, politics is a dirty game. But you can hardly cry foul when Varadker throws some mud back.

I agree.  Both well able for it.

Point was that Doherty was giving out about LV having a big dinner celebration the other night while the cost of living crisis was affecting people across the country etc.

Leo said it was a cheap shot and then he went off on one.

Did Doherty mention LV's current investigation as I only saw part of the clip?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2022, 12:07:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 17, 2022, 11:23:26 AM
I suppose the obvious question is how much more is there to examine? As you say, he was charged & convicted.

The same could be said of Doherty. Varadker's file is with the DPP, they're awaiting a decision, what else was to be gained by bringing it up in the Dail? It was clearly an attempt at political mud-slinging, fair enough, politics is a dirty game. But you can hardly cry foul when Varadker throws some mud back.

Ach dont be talking sense on here, Doherty started it and couldnt handle it. "Give it but not take" in street spake.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: restorepride on June 17, 2022, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2022, 10:45:44 AM
Quote from: restorepride on June 17, 2022, 12:29:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 10:34:53 PM
Am in great oul form to be honest , yep I'm grand anyhow in the knowledge that I'm a republican, speak my native tongue , play our native games, do an honest days work and don't dump babies in the bin . Oh and I dont thieve , dodge, scam , bully , protect paedos or anything like that..as I said feeling good.
Yet you have just made a sweeping, arrogant and ignorant comment re babies in a bin. Are you a priest or just blinded by a chauvinistic upbringing? Certainly a greater-than-thou rant reminiscent of Catholic Ireland at its holiest. Try confessions, priests can pass nothing on.

dont go to mass-sorry. Morals and religion are not the same thing, and I certainly not a chauvinist or you havent been following my comments at all here or on other threads.
Care to explain your babies in the bin comment?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 03:26:48 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 11:56:00 AM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 17, 2022, 11:23:26 AM
I suppose the obvious question is how much more is there to examine? As you say, he was charged & convicted.

The same could be said of Doherty. Varadker's file is with the DPP, they're awaiting a decision, what else was to be gained by bringing it up in the Dail? It was clearly an attempt at political mud-slinging, fair enough, politics is a dirty game. But you can hardly cry foul when Varadker throws some mud back.

Point was that Doherty was giving out about LV having a big dinner celebration the other night while the cost of living crisis was affecting people across the country etc.


I think that Doherty brought up Varadkar's prosecution first.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 17, 2022, 03:50:54 PM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 03:26:48 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 11:56:00 AM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 17, 2022, 11:23:26 AM
I suppose the obvious question is how much more is there to examine? As you say, he was charged & convicted.

The same could be said of Doherty. Varadker's file is with the DPP, they're awaiting a decision, what else was to be gained by bringing it up in the Dail? It was clearly an attempt at political mud-slinging, fair enough, politics is a dirty game. But you can hardly cry foul when Varadker throws some mud back.

Point was that Doherty was giving out about LV having a big dinner celebration the other night while the cost of living crisis was affecting people across the country etc.


I think that Doherty brought up Varadkar's prosecution first.

He did.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on June 17, 2022, 07:46:19 PM
A bit of housekeeping here with a few posts removed from the current page.

Argue the points, not the poster.

2 posters get a warning that means they cannot engage each other, per Rule 9 "In a case such as this, a moderator may post a public and private warning for both posters to completely ignore the other, refraining from referring to, directing comments at, or answering the other poster. Disregarding this warning will result in a ban."


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 09:52:59 PM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 11:17:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:49:25 AM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho

Fear seems to be a big FG man.

Key issue here is the current government is doing nothing about the current cost of living crisis.  They will sit on their hands until the next budget 4 or 5 months away and put their fingers in their ears until such time.

Playing into the opposition hands.

Varadkar created more publicity for SF by his childidh outburst. He needs a course in PR asap.

There's a certain level of either wilful ignorance or stupidity involved there. This was the tactics they used previously and it backfired on them. People got sick of the obvious attempts to twist anything going on into a stick to beat SF with. Same happened up here with SDLP imo. SF have enough f**k ups and genuine issues  that could be easily attacked as and when they happen without manufacturing ones. It's too forced and transparent and voters got turned off by it.

So Varadker's criminal issues are fair game but Doherty's aren't?
FFS a incident 3 decades ago verses one that is being looked at now. Your clutching and you know you are.

Doherty was charged and convicted of a crime which is more than what has so far happened with Varadker. IF he's happy to pull legal issues into a Dail debate he should be prepared to have his own examined.

Absolutely, but I wasn't the one trying to claim Varadker played a stormer. That was Fear.
With regards to the crimes imo and ongoing investigation has more relevance than a 30 year old conviction.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 17, 2022, 10:15:56 PM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho

Fear seems to be a big FG man.

Key issue here is the current government is doing nothing about the current cost of living crisis.  They will sit on their hands until the next budget 4 or 5 months away and put their fingers in their ears until such time.

Playing into the opposition hands.

Varadkar created more publicity for SF by his childidh outburst. He needs a course in PR asap.

There's a certain level of either wilful ignorance or stupidity involved there. This was the tactics they used previously and it backfired on them. People got sick of the obvious attempts to twist anything going on into a stick to beat SF with. Same happened up here with SDLP imo. SF have enough f**k ups and genuine issues  that could be easily attacked as and when they happen without manufacturing ones. It's too forced and transparent and voters got turned off by it.

So Varadker's criminal issues are fair game but Doherty's aren't?

So a drunken misdemeanor on a night out when Doherty was a youth is of more concern and significance to the public than the incoming taoiseach being actively under criminal investigation for misconduct in public office while he was in his last stint as Taoiseach?

F**k me. Some of you SF bashers really need to take a step back and pick your battles a bit better.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 18, 2022, 06:23:24 PM
What do SF do with all the money?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 18, 2022, 06:47:21 PM
I presume they give it all to the poor ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Windmill abu on June 18, 2022, 09:21:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 18, 2022, 06:47:21 PM
I presume they give it all to the poor ::)
Yes.

Now you define poor.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on June 18, 2022, 09:29:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 17, 2022, 10:15:56 PM
Quote from: trileacman on June 17, 2022, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2022, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 17, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 16, 2022, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 16, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-pearse-doherty-abused-and-mistreated-a-garda-varadkar-tells-dail-41759711.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=Sinn+F%C3%A9in%E2%80%99s+Pearse+Doherty+%E2%80%98abused+and+mistreated%E2%80%99+a+garda%2C+Varadkar+tells+D%C3%A1il+%28xtremepush+%2364465231%29&utm_term=notification+%231145194624_3254967884&utm_content=A

OUch, that hurt. Bad when Varadkar making you look a tool

nowhere in that does Varadkar make him look like a tool

Absolutely does. The 1000 pound dinners lol. Class

Absolutely does not. The fact that he talks about vagabonds that live in a caravan says everything about him tho

Fear seems to be a big FG man.

Key issue here is the current government is doing nothing about the current cost of living crisis.  They will sit on their hands until the next budget 4 or 5 months away and put their fingers in their ears until such time.

Playing into the opposition hands.

Varadkar created more publicity for SF by his childidh outburst. He needs a course in PR asap.

There's a certain level of either wilful ignorance or stupidity involved there. This was the tactics they used previously and it backfired on them. People got sick of the obvious attempts to twist anything going on into a stick to beat SF with. Same happened up here with SDLP imo. SF have enough f**k ups and genuine issues  that could be easily attacked as and when they happen without manufacturing ones. It's too forced and transparent and voters got turned off by it.

So Varadker's criminal issues are fair game but Doherty's aren't?

So a drunken misdemeanor on a night out when Doherty was a youth is of more concern and significance to the public than the incoming taoiseach being actively under criminal investigation for misconduct in public office while he was in his last stint as Taoiseach?

F**k me. Some of you SF bathers really need to take a tep back and pick your battles a bit better.

Add up all those SFers though, they're some rabble
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 19, 2022, 03:02:44 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on June 18, 2022, 09:21:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 18, 2022, 06:47:21 PM
I presume they give it all to the poor ::)
Yes.

Now you define poor.

SF Members?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 22, 2022, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 18, 2022, 06:23:24 PM
What do SF do with all the money?
Why don't you become a member and ask them? I'd guess a lot is spent on paying activists councillors etc... I don't know and I am no more bothered about how they spend the money than I am about FF, FG or the SDLP. But before you cast your nod and a wink accusations why don't you investigate and call them out on the facts?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on June 22, 2022, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2022, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 18, 2022, 06:23:24 PM
What do SF do with all the money?
Why don't you become a member and ask them? I'd guess a lot is spent on paying activists councillors etc... I don't know and I am no more bothered about how they spend the money than I am about FF, FG or the SDLP. But before you cast your nod and a wink accusations why don't you investigate and call them out on the facts?

its easier to make nod and a wink accusations though
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 22, 2022, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2022, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2022, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 18, 2022, 06:23:24 PM
What do SF do with all the money?
Why don't you become a member and ask them? I'd guess a lot is spent on paying activists councillors etc... I don't know and I am no more bothered about how they spend the money than I am about FF, FG or the SDLP. But before you cast your nod and a wink accusations why don't you investigate and call them out on the facts?

its easier to make nod and a wink accusations though

I haven't made any accusations. I have asked a simple question. SF are the richest political party in Ireland. They raise million in America that cannot be spent in Ireland. They got a huge donation in GB that they filtered through their UK party rather than their Irish party. If we are to believe what we are told their MLAs, TDs etc only take an average industrial wage although this has been provided to be wrong on some occasions.  I think these are genuine questions. SF apologists on here are the ones who make it out like they are hiding something.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 22, 2022, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 22, 2022, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2022, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2022, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 18, 2022, 06:23:24 PM
What do SF do with all the money?
Why don't you become a member and ask them? I'd guess a lot is spent on paying activists councillors etc... I don't know and I am no more bothered about how they spend the money than I am about FF, FG or the SDLP. But before you cast your nod and a wink accusations why don't you investigate and call them out on the facts?

its easier to make nod and a wink accusations though

I haven't made any accusations. I have asked a simple question. SF are the richest political party in Ireland. They raise million in America that cannot be spent in Ireland. They got a huge donation in GB that they filtered through their UK party rather than their Irish party. If we are to believe what we are told their MLAs, TDs etc only take an average industrial wage although this has been provided to be wrong on some occasions.  I think these are genuine questions. SF apologists on here are the ones who make it out like they are hiding something.

Do you want people to guess? My money is on stationary. Bet all the SF politicians have a room at home full of biros and sticky notes.

Or you could find out and tell us if there's an issue and then we'd have something to discuss instead of getting annoyed cause no one is jumping to your tune.




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 22, 2022, 04:45:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

Interesting.

Do you have a report/stats for that?

I'd say a good few established mlas have property somewhere, apart feom their own dwelling.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 05:45:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 22, 2022, 04:45:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

Interesting.

Do you have a report/stats for that?

I'd say a good few established mlas have property somewhere, apart feom their own dwelling.

naw not to the same extent as SF, not a chance. You would know as a SF supporter yourself
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 22, 2022, 06:45:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 05:45:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 22, 2022, 04:45:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

Interesting.

Do you have a report/stats for that?

I'd say a good few established mlas have property somewhere, apart feom their own dwelling.

naw not to the same extent as SF, not a chance. You would know as a SF supporter yourself

How would I know...if you don't know?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 22, 2022, 10:00:25 PM
If they on a industrial wage how can they afford 2 houses? Many person I know, on alot more money an Industrial wage are hard pressed running one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 22, 2022, 10:26:13 PM
Wasn't the industrial wage policy openly scrapped a few years ago as too many professionals were leaving the party?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 22, 2022, 10:37:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 05:45:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 22, 2022, 04:45:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

Interesting.

Do you have a report/stats for that?

I'd say a good few established mlas have property somewhere, apart feom their own dwelling.

naw not to the same extent as SF, not a chance. You would know as a SF supporter yourself

How could anyone argue with those facts and figures. 😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 11:32:44 PM
Mr Gerry O hara . Mr Raymond McCartney. Miss Martina Anderson. Miss Elisha McCallion.Mr Gerry Adams(long before he earned any legit dough). And the list goes on. That's just my own area. If there are any free state shinners on here don't even bother replying . Your answers don't count , yes haven't a baldies about North
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 22, 2022, 11:36:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 11:32:44 PM
Mr Gerry O hara . Mr Raymond McCartney. Miss Martina Anderson. Miss Elisha McCallion.Mr Gerry Adams(long before he earned any legit dough). And the list goes on. That's just my own area. If there are any free state shinners on here don't even bother replying . Your answers don't count , yes haven't a baldies about North

Does any politicians from other parties own more than one property? Be good to, you know, compare it to something?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 12:04:19 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 22, 2022, 11:36:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 11:32:44 PM
Mr Gerry O hara . Mr Raymond McCartney. Miss Martina Anderson. Miss Elisha McCallion.Mr Gerry Adams(long before he earned any legit dough). And the list goes on. That's just my own area. If there are any free state shinners on here don't even bother replying . Your answers don't count , yes haven't a baldies about North

Does any politicians from other parties own more than one property? Be good to, you know, compare it to something?

I know Eastwoods into bars etc . Point is these all had these houses when they were not even on big salaries( or in some cases no clear income). Very odd that
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 23, 2022, 09:58:21 AM
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 10:23:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2022, 09:58:21 AM
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

On the head
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 23, 2022, 10:41:55 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 10:23:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2022, 09:58:21 AM
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

On the head
For two lads so anti Sinn Fein ye both spend a serious amount of time on this thread!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.

Correct? You don't have any statistics to verify your two claims? If you wouldn't mind confirming as much for the board.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 11:24:53 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2022, 10:41:55 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 10:23:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2022, 09:58:21 AM
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

On the head
For two lads so anti Sinn Fein ye both spend a serious amount of time on this thread!

Its a great past time, I must admit, de-stresser, a bit like meditation only more enjoyable
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.

Correct? You don't have any statistics to verify your two claims? If you wouldn't mind confirming as much for the board.

Lol, talking to yourself now, gack
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:31:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.

Correct? You don't have any statistics to verify your two claims? If you wouldn't mind confirming as much for the board.

Lol, talking to yourself now, gack

No Talking to you. Can you confirm for us that you indeed don't have the statistics to back up either one of your two claims? That you just made the two claims up?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 23, 2022, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:31:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.

Correct? You don't have any statistics to verify your two claims? If you wouldn't mind confirming as much for the board.

Lol, talking to yourself now, gack

No Talking to you. Can you confirm for us that you indeed don't have the statistics to back up either one of your two claims? That you just made the two claims up?

Don't be asking for facts or figures ffs. Don't you know Fear is in the know on all things SF. You should take his word as gospel and not be bothering him with mundane things like facts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 23, 2022, 12:11:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 23, 2022, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:31:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.

Correct? You don't have any statistics to verify your two claims? If you wouldn't mind confirming as much for the board.

Lol, talking to yourself now, gack

No Talking to you. Can you confirm for us that you indeed don't have the statistics to back up either one of your two claims? That you just made the two claims up?

Don't be asking for facts or figures ffs. Don't you know Fear is in the know on all things SF. You should take his word as gospel and not be bothering him with mundane things like facts.
Snapchap and Trueblue- surely yous have copped on by now Fear loves a wind up. Fair play to him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 23, 2022, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2022, 12:11:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 23, 2022, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:31:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.

Correct? You don't have any statistics to verify your two claims? If you wouldn't mind confirming as much for the board.

Lol, talking to yourself now, gack

No Talking to you. Can you confirm for us that you indeed don't have the statistics to back up either one of your two claims? That you just made the two claims up?

Don't be asking for facts or figures ffs. Don't you know Fear is in the know on all things SF. You should take his word as gospel and not be bothering him with mundane things like facts.
Snapchap and Trueblue- surely yous have copped on by now Fear loves a wind up. Fair play to him.

He's not winding. You can sense the anger bubbling away under the surface when chatting bout SF. There's been some life event that's driven that, which may be genuine enough. But his dislike and contempt for SF is real. Not be fooled in the auld "'T'was only fishing" line.  That only usually comes out when he hits a speed wobble on his augment.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 23, 2022, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2022, 12:11:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 23, 2022, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:31:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.

Correct? You don't have any statistics to verify your two claims? If you wouldn't mind confirming as much for the board.

Lol, talking to yourself now, gack

No Talking to you. Can you confirm for us that you indeed don't have the statistics to back up either one of your two claims? That you just made the two claims up?

Don't be asking for facts or figures ffs. Don't you know Fear is in the know on all things SF. You should take his word as gospel and not be bothering him with mundane things like facts.
Snapchap and Trueblue- surely yous have copped on by now Fear loves a wind up. Fair play to him.

He's not winding. You can sense the anger bubbling away under the surface when chatting bout SF. There's been some life event that's driven that, which may be genuine enough. But his dislike and contempt for SF is real. Not be fooled in the auld "'T'was only fishing" line.  That only usually comes out when he hits a speed wobble on his augment.

Just reading this in my therapy waiting room.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 23, 2022, 03:14:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 22, 2022, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2022, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 22, 2022, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 18, 2022, 06:23:24 PM
What do SF do with all the money?
Why don't you become a member and ask them? I'd guess a lot is spent on paying activists councillors etc... I don't know and I am no more bothered about how they spend the money than I am about FF, FG or the SDLP. But before you cast your nod and a wink accusations why don't you investigate and call them out on the facts?

its easier to make nod and a wink accusations though

I haven't made any accusations. I have asked a simple question. SF are the richest political party in Ireland. They raise million in America that cannot be spent in Ireland. They got a huge donation in GB that they filtered through their UK party rather than their Irish party. If we are to believe what we are told their MLAs, TDs etc only take an average industrial wage although this has been provided to be wrong on some occasions.  I think these are genuine questions. SF apologists on here are the ones who make it out like they are hiding something.
I'm not an apologist, I am simply saying that as a bona fide political party and an organisation with a constitution etc there are clearly defined ways in which money should be handled. So, do you know how much they raised? Have you proof of wrong doing? If not then your post is moot. Also man dies in uk and leaves money to a party organised in what is still part of the UK, what's the beef? All you are doing is rehashing Leo's mantra. Call them out shame them and I for one will support you if they are at fault.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 23, 2022, 03:20:18 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 23, 2022, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2022, 12:11:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 23, 2022, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:31:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.

Correct? You don't have any statistics to verify your two claims? If you wouldn't mind confirming as much for the board.

Lol, talking to yourself now, gack

No Talking to you. Can you confirm for us that you indeed don't have the statistics to back up either one of your two claims? That you just made the two claims up?

Don't be asking for facts or figures ffs. Don't you know Fear is in the know on all things SF. You should take his word as gospel and not be bothering him with mundane things like facts.
Snapchap and Trueblue- surely yous have copped on by now Fear loves a wind up. Fair play to him.

He's not winding. You can sense the anger bubbling away under the surface when chatting bout SF. There's been some life event that's driven that, which may be genuine enough. But his dislike and contempt for SF is real. Not be fooled in the auld "'T'was only fishing" line.  That only usually comes out when he hits a speed wobble on his augment.

Just reading this in my therapy waiting room.

It's good to talk.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 23, 2022, 03:23:06 PM
More shit on here about houses owned, I'm pretty sure if you want you can find it on members interests. I'm not here to defend Adams but he was mentioned, has been a published author so unless you can prove his home ownership is as a result of illegal gains it would be wise not to make unfounded claims. I know a number of MLA's from both DUP and SDLP who own more than one home. In fact on SDLP or perhaps now former SDLP Belfast councillor was on radio quite a bit a few years back as a Landlord of HMO's.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 23, 2022, 04:20:21 PM
Being wealthy isn't a crime but I would like to ask can everyone on the average industrial wage afford a second home?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 23, 2022, 05:17:28 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2022, 03:23:06 PM
More shit on here about houses owned, I'm pretty sure if you want you can find it on members interests. I'm not here to defend Adams but he was mentioned, has been a published author so unless you can prove his home ownership is as a result of illegal gains it would be wise not to make unfounded claims. I know a number of MLA's from both DUP and SDLP who own more than one home. In fact on SDLP or perhaps now former SDLP Belfast councillor was on radio quite a bit a few years back as a Landlord of HMO's.

He owned half the Holylands at one stage.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2022, 06:26:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 23, 2022, 05:17:28 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2022, 03:23:06 PM
More shit on here about houses owned, I'm pretty sure if you want you can find it on members interests. I'm not here to defend Adams but he was mentioned, has been a published author so unless you can prove his home ownership is as a result of illegal gains it would be wise not to make unfounded claims. I know a number of MLA's from both DUP and SDLP who own more than one home. In fact on SDLP or perhaps now former SDLP Belfast councillor was on radio quite a bit a few years back as a Landlord of HMO's.

He owned half the Holylands at one stage.

Adams owned the other half
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 08:50:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2022, 04:20:21 PM
Being wealthy isn't a crime but I would like to ask can everyone on the average industrial wage afford a second home?
Who are you referring  to?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 24, 2022, 10:14:20 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 08:50:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2022, 04:20:21 PM
Being wealthy isn't a crime but I would like to ask can everyone on the average industrial wage afford a second home?
Who are you referring  to?

People who earn the average industrial wage. I wrote it down above.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 24, 2022, 10:24:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 24, 2022, 10:14:20 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 08:50:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2022, 04:20:21 PM
Being wealthy isn't a crime but I would like to ask can everyone on the average industrial wage afford a second home?
Who are you referring  to?

People who earn the average industrial wage. I wrote it down above.

I didn't ask "what generic group". I asked "who?" Surely you can tell us who you know has a second home on an average industrial wage?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 24, 2022, 11:09:00 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 07:47:09 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 22, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2022, 04:14:43 PM
Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage

And of course you'll have no problem providing the evidence/statistics to verify both those claims?

So no then.

Correct? You don't have any statistics to verify your two claims? If you wouldn't mind confirming as much for the board.

Is fear still doing up his list?

Makes a sweeping statement but still no reply from him yet?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 25, 2022, 08:48:30 AM
Population of 26 Cos now 5.1m.
Will be 11 or more extra seats in next Dáil.
So 86 TDs' votes needed to elect Taoiseach.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 26, 2022, 06:52:05 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 24, 2022, 10:24:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 24, 2022, 10:14:20 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 23, 2022, 08:50:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2022, 04:20:21 PM
Being wealthy isn't a crime but I would like to ask can everyone on the average industrial wage afford a second home?
Who are you referring  to?

People who earn the average industrial wage. I wrote it down above.

I didn't ask "what generic group". I asked "who?" Surely you can tell us who you know has a second home on an average industrial wage?

In your own time, of course.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2022, 11:23:02 PM
https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1562687349070663680?t=fjLT7iE4-v_yJYOs-iKIjQ&s=09

A wee glimpse into SF for our free state friends. Nurses got a 1.25 % rise today ah well
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2022, 11:23:02 PM
https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1562687349070663680?t=fjLT7iE4-v_yJYOs-iKIjQ&s=09

A wee glimpse into SF for our free state friends. Nurses got a 1.25 % rise today ah well

The assembly - which has no fiscal powers - has been functioning for only two of those years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2022, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2022, 11:23:02 PM
https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1562687349070663680?t=fjLT7iE4-v_yJYOs-iKIjQ&s=09

A wee glimpse into SF for our free state friends. Nurses got a 1.25 % rise today ah well

The assembly - which has no fiscal powers - has been functioning for only two of those years.

Why vote then? If stormont has no fiscal powers and westminster cant be attended, what is the point of SF north of the border?

Anyhow get O'Broin up, he will sort it all lol. Next you will be saying SF didnt collapse assembly for three years. Think for yourself man, you will feel better
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 11:13:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2022, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2022, 11:23:02 PM
https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1562687349070663680?t=fjLT7iE4-v_yJYOs-iKIjQ&s=09

A wee glimpse into SF for our free state friends. Nurses got a 1.25 % rise today ah well

The assembly - which has no fiscal powers - has been functioning for only two of those years.

Why vote then? If stormont has no fiscal powers and westminster cant be attended, what is the point of SF north of the border?

Anyhow get O'Broin up, he will sort it all lol. Next you will be saying SF didnt collapse assembly for three years. Think for yourself man, you will feel better

Think for myself? I did. See while you saw a headline and immediately jumped on it because you thought it was something you could use to have a pop at SF for, I was able to think for myself and understood that that of the five years the article is based on, the assembly wasn't operational for three of them and that it holds no fiscal powers. Therefor I was swiftly able to deduce that anyone trying to pretend that a power sharing assembly with no tax raising powers is the same as an actual sovereign government, is either being disingenuous or is stupid.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2022, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 11:13:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2022, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2022, 11:23:02 PM
https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1562687349070663680?t=fjLT7iE4-v_yJYOs-iKIjQ&s=09

A wee glimpse into SF for our free state friends. Nurses got a 1.25 % rise today ah well

The assembly - which has no fiscal powers - has been functioning for only two of those years.

Why vote then? If stormont has no fiscal powers and westminster cant be attended, what is the point of SF north of the border?

Anyhow get O'Broin up, he will sort it all lol. Next you will be saying SF didnt collapse assembly for three years. Think for yourself man, you will feel better

Think for myself? I did. See while you saw a headline and immediately jumped on it because you thought it was something you could use to have a pop at SF for, I was able to think for myself and understood that that of the five years the article is based on, the assembly wasn't operational for three of them and that it holds no fiscal powers. Therefor I was swiftly able to deduce that anyone trying to pretend that a power sharing assembly with no tax raising powers is the same as an actual sovereign government, is either being disingenuous or is stupid.

OMG! Duh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on August 26, 2022, 11:21:44 AM
Just an error (by someone else) of course, unlike them awful FFrs trying to hide things🤣

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-td-johnny-guirke-says-letting-agent-error-behind-failure-to-register-rental-property-with-rtb-41938003.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 26, 2022, 11:21:44 AM
Just an error (by someone else) of course, unlike them awful FFrs trying to hide things🤣

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-td-johnny-guirke-says-letting-agent-error-behind-failure-to-register-rental-property-with-rtb-41938003.html

Wouldn't defend him. Also wouldn't be as gullible as to fall for the suggestion that what he has done is in any way a parallel with Robert Troy. Micheal Martin also has also (for the last ten years) failed to declare his share in a West Cork holiday home but it's grand. He's only the Taoiseach.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2022, 11:40:14 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 26, 2022, 11:21:44 AM
Just an error (by someone else) of course, unlike them awful FFrs trying to hide things🤣

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-td-johnny-guirke-says-letting-agent-error-behind-failure-to-register-rental-property-with-rtb-41938003.html

He must be taking advice from Derry City SF. Gerry "20 houses" O' Hara etc
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2022, 09:27:12 PM
https://twitter.com/brendanhughes64/status/1563196105843933184?t=6dErP7cv9OT4n_O0pGgddw&s=19

Champagne socialism
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2022, 09:31:18 AM
I suppose Marylou will have to put this lad in the "Bad Crimes" category ::)

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/jonathan-dowdalls-1k-for-mary-lou-mcdonald-in-2011-wasnt-only-sinn-fein-donation-42140080.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2022, 11:24:42 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
That's big of him when he's pulling in the guts of 300 grand a year in salary and expenses.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on November 13, 2022, 11:30:44 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2022, 11:24:42 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
That's big of him when he's pulling in the guts of 300 grand a year in salary and expenses.

Wonder does he miss delivering letters 😜
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 13, 2022, 12:10:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat

But is he a good legislator?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Very good, but I don't know any community workers on 84 grand a year plus expenses, and anyway is that not what councillors are for?  Most MPs do constituency work on a Friday, so what does Mickey actually do on a Monday, or a Tuesday etc?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 12:58:05 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Very good, but I don't know any community workers on 84 grand a year plus expenses, and anyway is that not what councillors are for?  Most MPs do constituency work on a Friday, so what does Mickey actually do on a Monday, or a Tuesday etc?
I don't know nor do I particularly care. Theres a whole lot worse politicians than Mickey out there
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 13, 2022, 01:21:26 PM
At the end of the day in rating a politician, if you run a private company and needed to hire management staff, how many of them would you hire and more to the point, be suitable qualified for doing the job.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2022, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 13, 2022, 01:21:26 PM
At the end of the day in rating a politician, if you run a private company and needed to hire management staff, how many of them would you hire and more to the point, be suitable qualified for doing the job.
In the North it would be a number approaching zero.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 13, 2022, 01:54:15 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.

Don't know much about Mickey Brady as he's not my MP but Francie molloy would be very good. Whether he's good enough to earn whatever they earn is another question though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on November 13, 2022, 02:03:09 PM
Anyone ever see Francie Malloy not wearing a shirt and tie. Always turns out well
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2022, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Very good, but I don't know any community workers on 84 grand a year plus expenses, and anyway is that not what councillors are for?  Most MPs do constituency work on a Friday, so what does Mickey actually do on a Monday, or a Tuesday etc?
Sure why don't you pop into his office and ask him then you'll be able to come back on here and tell us.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on November 13, 2022, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2022, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 13, 2022, 01:21:26 PM
At the end of the day in rating a politician, if you run a private company and needed to hire management staff, how many of them would you hire and more to the point, be suitable qualified for doing the job.
In the North it would be a number approaching zero.

Agree 100%
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2022, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Very good, but I don't know any community workers on 84 grand a year plus expenses, and anyway is that not what councillors are for?  Most MPs do constituency work on a Friday, so what does Mickey actually do on a Monday, or a Tuesday etc?
Sure why don't you pop into his office and ask him then you'll be able to come back on here and tell us.
Not sure where you're going with that comment.  What do they do that a councillor can't do?  Name me one thing?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2022, 03:40:42 PM
I haven't a clue what they can do that a Councillor can't do or vice versa but it's not bothering me. As I said earlier call in to see Mickey and put those questions to him and then you will know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 04:54:16 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2022, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Very good, but I don't know any community workers on 84 grand a year plus expenses, and anyway is that not what councillors are for?  Most MPs do constituency work on a Friday, so what does Mickey actually do on a Monday, or a Tuesday etc?
Sure why don't you pop into his office and ask him then you'll be able to come back on here and tell us.
Not sure where you're going with that comment.  What do they do that a councillor can't do?  Name me one thing?
One things for sure I'm glad Mickey isn't standing in the commons making an idiot of himself like Sammy and wee Jeff and the rest
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 13, 2022, 05:09:06 PM
Did anyone see Sinn Fein Belfast City Lord Mayor making a clown out of herself the other day ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on November 13, 2022, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 13, 2022, 05:09:06 PM
Did anyone see Sinn Fein Belfast City Lord Mayor making a clown out of herself the other day ?

Did aye. Nearly as bad as Ruth Patterson. She was a scream
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2022, 08:44:21 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 13, 2022, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 13, 2022, 05:09:06 PM
Did anyone see Sinn Fein Belfast City Lord Mayor making a clown out of herself the other day ?

Did aye. Nearly as bad as Ruth Patterson. She was a scream
What did she say? It is very very rare that you get a bright spark in that role.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on November 13, 2022, 09:47:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2022, 08:44:21 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 13, 2022, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 13, 2022, 05:09:06 PM
Did anyone see Sinn Fein Belfast City Lord Mayor making a clown out of herself the other day ?

Did aye. Nearly as bad as Ruth Patterson. She was a scream
What did she say? It is very very rare that you get a bright spark in that role.

https://youtu.be/4uUfZgRXDZY

The troubles started cos her kafflick friends wouldn't play with her anymore 😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 14, 2022, 10:12:13 AM
Quote from: LC on November 13, 2022, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2022, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 13, 2022, 01:21:26 PM
At the end of the day in rating a politician, if you run a private company and needed to hire management staff, how many of them would you hire and more to the point, be suitable qualified for doing the job.
In the North it would be a number approaching zero.

Agree 100%

Agree 100%
Absolute wasters get elected cause they are high up in a free P church or because they go to some IRA commemoration. People with zero ability.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 14, 2022, 02:39:40 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Very good, but I don't know any community workers on 84 grand a year plus expenses, and anyway is that not what councillors are for?  Most MPs do constituency work on a Friday, so what does Mickey actually do on a Monday, or a Tuesday etc?
If you are going to have a go get your facts straight, they do not receive a salary as they don't take the oath of allegiance. Their expenses cover offices and staffing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2022, 03:41:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2022, 02:39:40 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Very good, but I don't know any community workers on 84 grand a year plus expenses, and anyway is that not what councillors are for?  Most MPs do constituency work on a Friday, so what does Mickey actually do on a Monday, or a Tuesday etc?
If you are going to have a go get your facts straight, they do not receive a salary as they don't take the oath of allegiance. Their expenses cover offices and staffing.

lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on November 14, 2022, 06:05:03 PM
(https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/C4E12AQH_DDqTOHMxgg/article-cover_image-shrink_600_2000/0/1623921835278?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=7u6qdngzZgxJn63riV83orXH4lpF4e-26Ib1G9vlEnc)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 14, 2022, 09:08:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2022, 02:39:40 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Very good, but I don't know any community workers on 84 grand a year plus expenses, and anyway is that not what councillors are for?  Most MPs do constituency work on a Friday, so what does Mickey actually do on a Monday, or a Tuesday etc?
If you are going to have a go get your facts straight, they do not receive a salary as they don't take the oath of allegiance. Their expenses cover offices and staffing.
Aye sure they are all still on £356 per week.

(https://i0.wp.com/3chicspolitico.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/president-barack-obama-winks-as-he-tells-a-joke-about-his-place-of-birth.jpg?fit=545%2C610&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 15, 2022, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 14, 2022, 09:08:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2022, 02:39:40 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 12:52:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 13, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Genuine question, are the likes of Mickey Brady and Francie Molloy stealing a living, or are they doing some really great work somewhere and I just haven't seen it.
Mickey would do a good bit in the community in fairness to him, but he's not exactly in danger of losing a seat
Very good, but I don't know any community workers on 84 grand a year plus expenses, and anyway is that not what councillors are for?  Most MPs do constituency work on a Friday, so what does Mickey actually do on a Monday, or a Tuesday etc?
If you are going to have a go get your facts straight, they do not receive a salary as they don't take the oath of allegiance. Their expenses cover offices and staffing.
Aye sure they are all still on £356 per week.

(https://i0.wp.com/3chicspolitico.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/president-barack-obama-winks-as-he-tells-a-joke-about-his-place-of-birth.jpg?fit=545%2C610&ssl=1)
I'm not sure what they are on, but it is factually incorrect to say that they draw a Westminster salary.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 10:58:27 AM
Then why even take the money if they don't attend, we giving it large to stormont getting paid when they do f**k all especially the DUP, but no tickle taking money from Westminster for doing nothing, or doing work the local councillor should be doing in the first place.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 15, 2022, 11:04:00 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 10:58:27 AM
Then why even take the money if they don't attend, we giving it large to stormont getting paid when they do f**k all especially the DUP, but no tickle taking money from Westminster for doing nothing, or doing work the local councillor should be doing in the first place.
Doing nothing? The only thing they don't do is attend the commons chamber. You think sit in for debates is all an MP does?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 15, 2022, 12:00:19 PM
Politicians in general get a bad press. But not one of us on this board would do their job at any price. They are at the beck and call of constituents 24/7, and get little or no thanks. I have worked with a number of them from all parties and the are genuinely always willing to help. It is very easy to criticise them and tar them all with the one brush. Of all the parties the DUP tend only to want to look after their own. UUP, SF, Alliance and SDLP are always willing to help.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 15, 2022, 12:57:18 PM
You'd have to wonder in general what is keeping the SF MPs going. Look at Chris Hazzard for example, married young family. £300 a week or whatever would go nowhere nowadays. He seems fairly capable to be fair.
Suppose the same can be said of MLAs who are now facing a pay cut. You'd wonder why many of the bother. Simon Hamilton left last time and what you tend to find is those who are capable have a second income or leave politics. I suppose if you have no other alternative and you're completely unemployable (as many are) you just have to stick it out. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 15, 2022, 12:59:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 15, 2022, 12:57:18 PM
You'd have to wonder in general what is keeping the SF MPs going. Look at Chris Hazzard for example, married young family. £300 a week or whatever would go nowhere nowadays. He seems fairly capable to be fair.
Suppose the same can be said of MLAs who are now facing a pay cut. You'd wonder why many of the bother. Simon Hamilton left last time and what you tend to find is those who are capable have a second income or leave politics. I suppose if you have no other alternative and you're completely unemployable (as many are) you just have to stick it out.
I'm not privy to anyones personal finances or tax returns but would imagine not too many are on £300 a week. Wouldn't be much change after diesel and food never mind much else
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2022, 01:04:37 PM
Having worked close with SF, there is loads of money under the carpet
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 15, 2022, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2022, 01:04:37 PM
Having worked close with SF, there is loads of money under the carpet
The gospel according to St Fear.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 15, 2022, 05:21:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 15, 2022, 12:59:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 15, 2022, 12:57:18 PM
You'd have to wonder in general what is keeping the SF MPs going. Look at Chris Hazzard for example, married young family. £300 a week or whatever would go nowhere nowadays. He seems fairly capable to be fair.
Suppose the same can be said of MLAs who are now facing a pay cut. You'd wonder why many of the bother. Simon Hamilton left last time and what you tend to find is those who are capable have a second income or leave politics. I suppose if you have no other alternative and you're completely unemployable (as many are) you just have to stick it out.
I'm not privy to anyones personal finances or tax returns but would imagine not too many are on £300 a week. Wouldn't be much change after diesel and food never mind much else

Think the "average industrial wage" has been done away with & they can "donate" from their salary as they see fit
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2022, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 15, 2022, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2022, 01:04:37 PM
Having worked close with SF, there is loads of money under the carpet
The gospel according to St Fear.

Gauranteed to know more than you.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 15, 2022, 09:49:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2022, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 15, 2022, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2022, 01:04:37 PM
Having worked close with SF, there is loads of money under the carpet
The gospel according to St Fear.

Gauranteed to know more than you.

Of course. The man in the know, don't ya know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 10:53:51 PM
If they paid so little how come a few can afford a 2nd house?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 15, 2022, 10:55:05 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 10:53:51 PM
If they paid so little how come a few can afford a 2nd house?

🤫🤫🤫
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 15, 2022, 10:58:33 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 10:53:51 PM
If they paid so little how come a few can afford a 2nd house?

Can you list who has a second house?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 11:10:44 PM
Pat Sheenhan not got an odd, House?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 10:20:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow
probably because a couple with 2 decent jobs still cant buy a house in dublin?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:21:44 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 10:20:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow
probably because a couple with 2 decent jobs still cant buy a house in dublin?

Ok lol.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 10:26:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:21:44 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 10:20:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow
probably because a couple with 2 decent jobs still cant buy a house in dublin?

Ok lol.
Are you not a Republican Fear? Didnt have you down as a blue shirt supporter lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:44:45 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 10:26:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:21:44 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 10:20:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow
probably because a couple with 2 decent jobs still cant buy a house in dublin?

Ok lol.
Are you not a Republican Fear? Didnt have you down as a blue shirt supporter lol

I am. And I'm not. But it's starting to look like they are too cute for the Shinners on the big boy politics
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: screenexile on November 18, 2022, 12:24:29 AM
There's still a housing crisis/ a homeless crisis/ inflation/ pubs are on their knees/ there aren't enough taxis in Dublin/ there aren't enough hotels in Dublin/ Direct provision / the "twindemic"/ the Ukraine refugee situation/ MICA redress in Donegal... etc

Plenty to beat the current Govt with
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 07:27:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?
Fear is more of a ABSF supporter!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.
Indeed. But Aontú to FFG is quite the leap so can hardly blame me for confirming that he has made such a remarkable transition.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:10:19 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.

Exactly. Think for yourself, healthy politics
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.
Indeed. But Aontú to FFG is quite the leap so can hardly blame me for confirming that he has made such a remarkable transition.

I haven't . I'm merely pointing out how difficult it will be to convince voters when the country is doing comparatively well. Sure hadn't Joe brolly spent few days tweeting about this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:16:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2022, 12:24:29 AM
There's still a housing crisis/ a homeless crisis/ inflation/ pubs are on their knees/ there aren't enough taxis in Dublin/ there aren't enough hotels in Dublin/ Direct provision / the "twindemic"/ the Ukraine refugee situation/ MICA redress in Donegal... etc

Plenty to beat the current Govt with

I agree. But i don't think SF will sort it and voters kinda starting to realize it. Bar Mica you could say the above about many a country.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.
Indeed. But Aontú to FFG is quite the leap so can hardly blame me for confirming that he has made such a remarkable transition.

I haven't . I'm merely pointing out how difficult it will be to convince voters when the country is doing comparatively well. Sure hadn't Joe brolly spent few days tweeting about this.
Oh I see. So how are Aountú going to "keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:23:35 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:16:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2022, 12:24:29 AM
There's still a housing crisis/ a homeless crisis/ inflation/ pubs are on their knees/ there aren't enough taxis in Dublin/ there aren't enough hotels in Dublin/ Direct provision / the "twindemic"/ the Ukraine refugee situation/ MICA redress in Donegal... etc

Plenty to beat the current Govt with

I agree. But i don't think SF will sort it and voters kinda starting to realize it. Bar Mica you could say the above about many a country.
Whats the alternative? Leave it with the bastards that made the mess?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 09:35:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:23:35 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:16:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2022, 12:24:29 AM
There's still a housing crisis/ a homeless crisis/ inflation/ pubs are on their knees/ there aren't enough taxis in Dublin/ there aren't enough hotels in Dublin/ Direct provision / the "twindemic"/ the Ukraine refugee situation/ MICA redress in Donegal... etc

Plenty to beat the current Govt with

I agree. But i don't think SF will sort it and voters kinda starting to realize it. Bar Mica you could say the above about many a country.
Whats the alternative? Leave it with the bastards that made the mess?

No give to SF,it will be fun in a recession. Popcorn moment
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 18, 2022, 09:39:48 AM
Sinn Fein chickens coming home to roost with their vanity hospital in Enniskillen. Can't staff it. Services moved to Craigavon. Which is exactly what Bengoa recommended by the way! Colm Gildernew crying looking for Health reform and when it happens in his constituency (and mine) he's against it. Couldn't make it up. The hospital was built to shore up his sisters MP vote and now we can see how poor their decision making was.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 09:50:28 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 09:39:48 AM
Sinn Fein chickens coming home to roost with their vanity hospital in Enniskillen. Can't staff it. Services moved to Craigavon. Which is exactly what Bengoa recommended by the way! Colm Gildernew crying looking for Health reform and when it happens in his constituency (and mine) he's against it. Couldn't make it up. The hospital was built to shore up his sisters MP vote and now we can see how poor their decision making was.

They are not strategic thinkers who can make hard nosed decisions. It is all about the easy vote for the non deep thinkers
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hereiam on November 18, 2022, 09:52:43 AM
The building of the SWAH and the glorified health centre that was also built in Omagh has been the biggest waste of public money

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 10:09:04 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace


We have too many hospitals for our small population.

We need to be hard nosed about this , altnagelvin and Belfast enough with smaller A and É elsewhere. Road and transport infrastructure to get people to the hospitals bigger priority.

This is a bigger example of how SF messed up primary Irish medium language schools in Derry. Approved more and more without the sustainability figures and now we have 3 islands who each can't get permanent build because they are too small

Ruane and ní chuilinn, not your brightest sparks
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 10:17:39 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

This exactly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 18, 2022, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

Why do you think this? Honest question.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on November 18, 2022, 10:23:49 AM
Downpatrick the same, nice, new hospital but can't staff it, whereas the Ulster is also being redeveloped and they can't staff half the wards in it either, so some decent infrastructure but no one to staff the bloody things.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:29:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

Why do you think this? Honest question.

Decades of having everything on your doorstep has left people thinking they're hard done by when the hospital locations are rationalised.
I don't understand the point of the protests either other than an electioneering opportunity for MLAs. Unless they can pull a few surgeons out of their sleeve then it's completely pointless. It isn't a piece of legislation or government policy that left SWAH without a surgeon, it's because there is nobody there to take the job.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 10:31:08 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 18, 2022, 10:23:49 AM
Downpatrick the same, nice, new hospital but can't staff it, whereas the Ulster is also being redeveloped and they can't staff half the wards in it either, so some decent infrastructure but no one to staff the bloody things.
Pay staff a decent wage, decent hours and work environment and make it an attractive profession again would go a long way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 10:32:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.
How far away is Altnagelvin from Enniskillen? Maybe I'm just spoilt having Daisy Hill and Craigavon a stones throw away with Belfast only a spin up the dual carriageway as well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 18, 2022, 10:34:07 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:29:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

Why do you think this? Honest question.

Decades of having everything on your doorstep has left people thinking they're hard done by when the hospital locations are rationalised.
I don't understand the point of the protests either other than an electioneering opportunity for MLAs. Unless they can pull a few surgeons out of their sleeve then it's completely pointless. It isn't a piece of legislation or government policy that left SWAH without a surgeon, it's because there is nobody there to take the job.

Completely and I communicated this to the SDLP councillors pulling the same stuff as well. Leadership is what is needed and yet Gildernew ran straight to the parish pump this morning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2022, 10:34:53 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2022, 12:24:29 AM
There's still a housing crisis/ a homeless crisis/ inflation/ pubs are on their knees/ there aren't enough taxis in Dublin/ there aren't enough hotels in Dublin/ Direct provision / the "twindemic"/ the Ukraine refugee situation/ MICA redress in Donegal... etc

Plenty to beat the current Govt with
Keep shouting "CHANGE" and all that will go away!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 18, 2022, 10:37:31 AM
Health service is very very broken. It is now beyond creaking. I dunno if it's fixable tbh which has probably been the end goal for a number of people anyway  :(

Major staffing issues. Brexit wouldn't have helped either I don't think as a lot of foreign people just don't want to be in the UK now. You're clearing the countries of a lot of foreign people that you need to keep your country afloat. Couldn't make that stuff up.

If you pay people at least close to a decent wage maybe more people will join and if you have better conditions maybe more would.

It's really really broken and it is very concerning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2022, 10:45:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

Counties Tyrone, Fermanagh, Cavan and Monaghan should be able to sustain a substantial hospital between them. The failure has been to connect the first two counties to the second.
The medical school in Derry needs to get open, which will provide more staff generally away from Belfast.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:53:45 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2022, 10:34:53 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2022, 12:24:29 AM
There's still a housing crisis/ a homeless crisis/ inflation/ pubs are on their knees/ there aren't enough taxis in Dublin/ there aren't enough hotels in Dublin/ Direct provision / the "twindemic"/ the Ukraine refugee situation/ MICA redress in Donegal... etc

Plenty to beat the current Govt with
Keep shouting "CHANGE" and all that will go away!!
OR keep voting FG? Leo said the housing crisis can't be fixed overnight so he needs more time. He's only had, what, 12 years?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 18, 2022, 10:54:23 AM
Leo is a spoofer. That much is clear to everyone by now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2022, 11:40:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:53:45 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2022, 10:34:53 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 18, 2022, 12:24:29 AM
There's still a housing crisis/ a homeless crisis/ inflation/ pubs are on their knees/ there aren't enough taxis in Dublin/ there aren't enough hotels in Dublin/ Direct provision / the "twindemic"/ the Ukraine refugee situation/ MICA redress in Donegal... etc

Plenty to beat the current Govt with
Keep shouting "CHANGE" and all that will go away!!
OR keep voting FG? Leo said the housing crisis can't be fixed overnight so he needs more time. He's only had, what, 12 years?
Maybe he should have shouted "CHANGE" and a load of houses would appear (in Constituencies where Shinners didn't object  of course).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

No dupid
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 11:41:50 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 10:32:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.
How far away is Altnagelvin from Enniskillen? Maybe I'm just spoilt having Daisy Hill and Craigavon a stones throw away with Belfast only a spin up the dual carriageway as well.

Hour and 10. 50 miles. Beautifully demonstrates my point on roads
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 18, 2022, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 11:41:50 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 10:32:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.
How far away is Altnagelvin from Enniskillen? Maybe I'm just spoilt having Daisy Hill and Craigavon a stones throw away with Belfast only a spin up the dual carriageway as well.

Hour and 10. 50 miles. Beautifully demonstrates my point on roads

You would never make it in 1 hr 10. I'm between Dromore and Omagh and will take anything from 1hr to 1hr 15 depending on traffic. Enniskillen another 20- 25 mins on that. I've done the trip regularly unfortunately.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 18, 2022, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

Hospitals aren't just emergency departments. This is the misunderstanding that people have and politicians have a duty to explain that to their communities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 18, 2022, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 11:41:50 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 10:32:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.
How far away is Altnagelvin from Enniskillen? Maybe I'm just spoilt having Daisy Hill and Craigavon a stones throw away with Belfast only a spin up the dual carriageway as well.

Hour and 10. 50 miles. Beautifully demonstrates my point on roads

You would never make it in 1 hr 10. I'm between Dromore and Omagh and will take anything from 1hr to 1hr 15 depending on traffic. Enniskillen another 20- 25 mins on that. I've done the trip regularly unfortunately.

Infrastructure not  hospitals dotted everywhere is what we need .

But you need good strategy at govt  level for that . SF/DUP don't fit that bill.

We have far more hospitals per head of population than rest of Ireland and uk.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 18, 2022, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 11:41:50 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 10:32:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.
How far away is Altnagelvin from Enniskillen? Maybe I'm just spoilt having Daisy Hill and Craigavon a stones throw away with Belfast only a spin up the dual carriageway as well.

Hour and 10. 50 miles. Beautifully demonstrates my point on roads

You would never make it in 1 hr 10. I'm between Dromore and Omagh and will take anything from 1hr to 1hr 15 depending on traffic. Enniskillen another 20- 25 mins on that. I've done the trip regularly unfortunately.

Infrastructure not  hospitals dotted everywhere is what we need .

But you need good strategy at govt  level for that . SF/DUP don't fit that bill.

We have far more hospitals per head of population than rest of Ireland and uk.

This is the thing people don't realise. Belfast has no need for 3 major hospitals. This extends to 5 when you include suburban towns.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

Hospitals aren't just emergency departments. This is the misunderstanding that people have and politicians have a duty to explain that to their communities.

So that's a yes? F** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 18, 2022, 02:32:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

Hospitals aren't just emergency departments. This is the misunderstanding that people have and politicians have a duty to explain that to their communities.

So that's a yes? F** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

No it's not. But if a proper health service was delivered people can access the APPROPRIATE CARE at the right time including emergencies. Having a part staffed hospital in rural Fermanagh because it gets votes for Michelle Gildernew is not the way to do that. Surely you understand that. And once again not everyone needs to access a hospital within a "golden hour"


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: charlieTully on November 18, 2022, 02:41:03 PM
I mind getting into a row with someone on fb a while back because they were complaining there was no gp out of hours centre in Banbridge. There is one in Craigavon and newry. Both 15 mins from Banbridge. The population is spoilt rotten. Every report commissioned in the past 20 years  has warned of this outcome but there is no political party willing to take the tough decisions. Everyone is in their own silo. Now we are all fkued.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 18, 2022, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 18, 2022, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 11:41:50 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 10:32:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.
How far away is Altnagelvin from Enniskillen? Maybe I'm just spoilt having Daisy Hill and Craigavon a stones throw away with Belfast only a spin up the dual carriageway as well.

Hour and 10. 50 miles. Beautifully demonstrates my point on roads

You would never make it in 1 hr 10. I'm between Dromore and Omagh and will take anything from 1hr to 1hr 15 depending on traffic. Enniskillen another 20- 25 mins on that. I've done the trip regularly unfortunately.

Infrastructure not  hospitals dotted everywhere is what we need .

But you need good strategy at govt  level for that . SF/DUP don't fit that bill.

We have far more hospitals per head of population than rest of Ireland and uk.

SF have been the main party pushing the development of the A4.
But I agree, infrastructure is essential in the west. The A5 and A4 need to happen. And soon.

On an aside, from Memory Peter Quinn was one of the big supporters for the SWAH and one of the main campaigners.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 02:57:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

Hospitals aren't just emergency departments. This is the misunderstanding that people have and politicians have a duty to explain that to their communities.

So that's a yes? F** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

Thought I heard a sheep there
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:03:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.
Indeed. But Aontú to FFG is quite the leap so can hardly blame me for confirming that he has made such a remarkable transition.

I haven't . I'm merely pointing out how difficult it will be to convince voters when the country is doing comparatively well. Sure hadn't Joe brolly spent few days tweeting about this.
Oh I see. So how are Aountú going to "keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow"?
In your own time there
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:03:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.
Indeed. But Aontú to FFG is quite the leap so can hardly blame me for confirming that he has made such a remarkable transition.

I haven't . I'm merely pointing out how difficult it will be to convince voters when the country is doing comparatively well. Sure hadn't Joe brolly spent few days tweeting about this.
Oh I see. So how are Aountú going to "keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow"?
In your own time there

I couldn't figure out what you were saying ,not unusual with you
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:14:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 02:32:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

Hospitals aren't just emergency departments. This is the misunderstanding that people have and politicians have a duty to explain that to their communities.

So that's a yes? F** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

No it's not. But if a proper health service was delivered people can access the APPROPRIATE CARE at the right time including emergencies. Having a part staffed hospital in rural Fermanagh because it gets votes for Michelle Gildernew is not the way to do that. Surely you understand that. And once again not everyone needs to access a hospital within a "golden hour"
Would you like to live up to an hour an a half away from emergency care if you or a loved one, God forbid, took a stroke? Why should a full county of people have to live with that reality?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:16:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:03:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.
Indeed. But Aontú to FFG is quite the leap so can hardly blame me for confirming that he has made such a remarkable transition.

I haven't . I'm merely pointing out how difficult it will be to convince voters when the country is doing comparatively well. Sure hadn't Joe brolly spent few days tweeting about this.
Oh I see. So how are Aountú going to "keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow"?
In your own time there

I couldn't figure out what you were saying ,not unusual with you
You see, all I did was take your exact question and replace the words 'Sinn Féin' with Aontú. So hopefully that clarifies it for you and we can try again:

How are Aontú going to "keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow"?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 03:38:12 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:16:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:03:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.
Indeed. But Aontú to FFG is quite the leap so can hardly blame me for confirming that he has made such a remarkable transition.

I haven't . I'm merely pointing out how difficult it will be to convince voters when the country is doing comparatively well. Sure hadn't Joe brolly spent few days tweeting about this.
Oh I see. So how are Aountú going to "keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow"?
In your own time there

I couldn't figure out what you were saying ,not unusual with you
You see, all I did was take your exact question and replace the words 'Sinn Féin' with Aontú. So hopefully that clarifies it for you and we can try again:

How are Aontú going to "keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow"?

Ah seen what you did there, amazing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 03:38:12 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:16:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:03:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2022, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2022, 10:11:40 PM
How are SF going to keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow

So you no longer support Aontú? FF/FG is the way to go?

Sticking with one party religiously despite any misgivings isn't a good thing. You should be prepared to move your vote.
Indeed. But Aontú to FFG is quite the leap so can hardly blame me for confirming that he has made such a remarkable transition.

I haven't . I'm merely pointing out how difficult it will be to convince voters when the country is doing comparatively well. Sure hadn't Joe brolly spent few days tweeting about this.
Oh I see. So how are Aountú going to "keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow"?
In your own time there

I couldn't figure out what you were saying ,not unusual with you
You see, all I did was take your exact question and replace the words 'Sinn Féin' with Aontú. So hopefully that clarifies it for you and we can try again:

How are Aontú going to "keep up the pretence that FF /FG are killing the country as the Irish economy continues to grow"?

Ah seen what you did there, amazing

And you won't answer. Amazing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 18, 2022, 07:14:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:14:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 02:32:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

Hospitals aren't just emergency departments. This is the misunderstanding that people have and politicians have a duty to explain that to their communities.

So that's a yes? F** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

No it's not. But if a proper health service was delivered people can access the APPROPRIATE CARE at the right time including emergencies. Having a part staffed hospital in rural Fermanagh because it gets votes for Michelle Gildernew is not the way to do that. Surely you understand that. And once again not everyone needs to access a hospital within a "golden hour"
Would you like to live up to an hour an a half away from emergency care if you or a loved one, God forbid, took a stroke? Why should a full county of people have to live with that reality?

Coming from your stance of supporting a violent armed campaign do you think everyone needs emergency care within one hour of their house because they might be shot or blown up?
In a peaceful society the reality is different.

I'm not sure if you understand this point but I will say it again. Not everyone who engages with hospital services is an emergency. In fact emergencies are a very small part of the service a hospital provides.
I cannot make it any clearer
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 09:12:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 07:14:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:14:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 02:32:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

Hospitals aren't just emergency departments. This is the misunderstanding that people have and politicians have a duty to explain that to their communities.

So that's a yes? F** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

No it's not. But if a proper health service was delivered people can access the APPROPRIATE CARE at the right time including emergencies. Having a part staffed hospital in rural Fermanagh because it gets votes for Michelle Gildernew is not the way to do that. Surely you understand that. And once again not everyone needs to access a hospital within a "golden hour"
Would you like to live up to an hour an a half away from emergency care if you or a loved one, God forbid, took a stroke? Why should a full county of people have to live with that reality?

Coming from your stance of supporting a violent armed campaign do you think everyone needs emergency care within one hour of their house because they might be shot or blown up?
In a peaceful society the reality is different.

I'm not sure if you understand this point but I will say it again. Not everyone who engages with hospital services is an emergency. In fact emergencies are a very small part of the service a hospital provides.
I cannot make it any clearer

Oh FFS that's as pathetic a reply as ever I've seen on here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 19, 2022, 11:28:34 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 07:14:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 03:14:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 02:32:22 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 18, 2022, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 18, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Needs to be a hospital in that part of the country! Health service top to bottom is a disgrace

There is one. Altnagelvin. Fermanagh does not have the population to staff the SWAH.

So f** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

Hospitals aren't just emergency departments. This is the misunderstanding that people have and politicians have a duty to explain that to their communities.

So that's a yes? F** all those from Tyrone & Fermanagh who live well outside the 'golden hour' away from Altnagelvin?

No it's not. But if a proper health service was delivered people can access the APPROPRIATE CARE at the right time including emergencies. Having a part staffed hospital in rural Fermanagh because it gets votes for Michelle Gildernew is not the way to do that. Surely you understand that. And once again not everyone needs to access a hospital within a "golden hour"
Would you like to live up to an hour an a half away from emergency care if you or a loved one, God forbid, took a stroke? Why should a full county of people have to live with that reality?

Coming from your stance of supporting a violent armed campaign do you think everyone needs emergency care within one hour of their house because they might be shot or blown up?
In a peaceful society the reality is different.

I'm not sure if you understand this point but I will say it again. Not everyone who engages with hospital services is an emergency. In fact emergencies are a very small part of the service a hospital provides.
I cannot make it any clearer
Get help. Christ almighty what a post
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 19, 2022, 12:27:55 PM
He's giving his late night posts a good run for their money with that one. 😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on November 26, 2022, 09:19:51 AM
Jimbo has a point, Stormont could head this way.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2022/11/26/news/jim_allister_system_of_mandatory_coalition_is_absurd-2917310/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 26, 2022, 12:31:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 26, 2022, 09:19:51 AM
Jimbo has a point, Stormont could head this way.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2022/11/26/news/jim_allister_system_of_mandatory_coalition_is_absurd-2917310/

He is absolutely right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 16, 2022, 04:34:06 PM
Lest we forget
.https://www.shannonside.ie/news/39th-anniversary-of-death-of-local-garda-and-soldier-in-leitrim-hostage-rescue-215969

Wonder what category does Ms McDonald put these 2 murders under?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2023, 06:18:42 PM
Sunday Independent/Ireland Thinks January poll
Sinn Fein 32% (-2)
Fine Gael 25% (+2)
Fianna Fail 16% (-1)
Greens 4% (+1)
Solidarity/PBP 4% (+1)
Aontu 3% (-1)
SocDems 3% (-2)
Labour 3% (-)

Leo might be in office for a while.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: From the Bunker on January 08, 2023, 12:41:13 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2023, 06:18:42 PM
Sunday Independent/Ireland Thinks January poll
Sinn Fein 32% (-2)
Fine Gael 25% (+2)
Fianna Fail 16% (-1)
Greens 4% (+1)
Solidarity/PBP 4% (+1)
Aontu 3% (-1)
SocDems 3% (-2)
Labour 3% (-)

Leo might be in office for a while.

you have to love Polls! Fianna Fail will get way more then 16% in the next election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 08, 2023, 07:55:23 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 08, 2023, 12:41:13 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2023, 06:18:42 PM
Sunday Independent/Ireland Thinks January poll
Sinn Fein 32% (-2)
Fine Gael 25% (+2)
Fianna Fail 16% (-1)
Greens 4% (+1)
Solidarity/PBP 4% (+1)
Aontu 3% (-1)
SocDems 3% (-2)
Labour 3% (-)

Leo might be in office for a while.

you have to love Polls! Fianna Fail will get way more then 16% in the next election.
Hard to believe 16% of irish people are stupid enough to vote for them but here we are
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Don Cockburn on January 08, 2023, 01:29:15 PM
Sinn Fein may struggle to keep the high polling numbers.
The Monk and Dowdall trial may have caused a slight dent but very few of their supporters are naïve enough not to be aware of the links to criminality many of their members will have.

The bigger problem is that up till now Sinn Fein have been the umbrella party for the disaffected. But now as we see a greater break out into the far left, far right politics like in other countries, they can't be all things to all men.
The recent protests against migrants have exposed how flag shagger, Irish "patriots" are very much at odds with the open door migration ideals of the woke Sinn Fein leadership. There were chants against the party in the East Wall and Drimnagh protests.

Remember when Gemma O'Doherty and Sinn Fein were best friends. When it was anti-water charges and anti-corruption, Sinn Fein were happy. Now the loons are anti-vaccine and anti-foreigner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: From the Bunker on January 08, 2023, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: Don Cockburn on January 08, 2023, 01:29:15 PM
Sinn Fein may struggle to keep the high polling numbers.
The Monk and Dowdall trial may have caused a slight dent but very few of their supporters are naïve enough not to be aware of the links to criminality many of their members will have.

The bigger problem is that up till now Sinn Fein have been the umbrella party for the disaffected. But now as we see a greater break out into the far left, far right politics like in other countries, they can't be all things to all men.
The recent protests against migrants have exposed how flag shagger, Irish "patriots" are very much at odds with the open door migration ideals of the woke Sinn Fein leadership. There were chants against the party in the East Wall and Drimnagh protests.

Remember when Gemma O'Doherty and Sinn Fein were best friends. When it was anti-water charges and anti-corruption, Sinn Fein were happy. Now the loons are anti-vaccine and anti-foreigner.

Sinn Fein, Social Democrats, People before profit have been seriously undermined in poorer electoral area by Far right groups. Most of their community meetings, protests and social events have been disrupted and in most cases destroyed. The Far right groups have hammered the hammer in regards the lefts relevant voice of the poorer in society.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2023, 01:58:02 PM
Quote from: Don Cockburn on January 08, 2023, 01:29:15 PM
Sinn Fein may struggle to keep the high polling numbers.
The Monk and Dowdall trial may have caused a slight dent but very few of their supporters are naïve enough not to be aware of the links to criminality many of their members will have.

The bigger problem is that up till now Sinn Fein have been the umbrella party for the disaffected. But now as we see a greater break out into the far left, far right politics like in other countries, they can't be all things to all men.
The recent protests against migrants have exposed how flag shagger, Irish "patriots" are very much at odds with the open door migration ideals of the woke Sinn Fein leadership. There were chants against the party in the East Wall and Drimnagh protests.

Remember when Gemma O'Doherty and Sinn Fein were best friends. When it was anti-water charges and anti-corruption, Sinn Fein were happy. Now the loons are anti-vaccine and anti-foreigner.
I dunno. The right wing groups are funded by the rich and tend to be single issue with no solutions to the issues that working class people are worried about.
SF is more like a Government in exile.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2023, 03:29:58 PM
Sorta more worry what solicitor can earn to the common man!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on January 08, 2023, 03:30:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2023, 03:29:58 PM
Sorta more worry what solicitor can earn to the common man!

It's since 2019 & it's his own company I'm guessing, or at least a partner in it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Don Cockburn on January 08, 2023, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2023, 01:58:02 PM
Quote from: Don Cockburn on January 08, 2023, 01:29:15 PM
Sinn Fein may struggle to keep the high polling numbers.
The Monk and Dowdall trial may have caused a slight dent but very few of their supporters are naïve enough not to be aware of the links to criminality many of their members will have.

The bigger problem is that up till now Sinn Fein have been the umbrella party for the disaffected. But now as we see a greater break out into the far left, far right politics like in other countries, they can't be all things to all men.
The recent protests against migrants have exposed how flag shagger, Irish "patriots" are very much at odds with the open door migration ideals of the woke Sinn Fein leadership. There were chants against the party in the East Wall and Drimnagh protests.

Remember when Gemma O'Doherty and Sinn Fein were best friends. When it was anti-water charges and anti-corruption, Sinn Fein were happy. Now the loons are anti-vaccine and anti-foreigner.
I dunno. The right wing groups are funded by the rich and tend to be single issue with no solutions to the issues that working class people are worried about.
SF is more like a Government in exile.

If a populist right wing party emerged and started campaigning on slogans like social housing for locals first, caps on immigration etc there would have to be some sort of impact on Sinn Fein.
It's no accident that the government are shipping migrants in to Sinn Fein strongholds and pitting them against the locals who see them as competition for resources.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on January 08, 2023, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: Don Cockburn on January 08, 2023, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 08, 2023, 01:58:02 PM
Quote from: Don Cockburn on January 08, 2023, 01:29:15 PM
Sinn Fein may struggle to keep the high polling numbers.
The Monk and Dowdall trial may have caused a slight dent but very few of their supporters are naïve enough not to be aware of the links to criminality many of their members will have.

The bigger problem is that up till now Sinn Fein have been the umbrella party for the disaffected. But now as we see a greater break out into the far left, far right politics like in other countries, they can't be all things to all men.
The recent protests against migrants have exposed how flag shagger, Irish "patriots" are very much at odds with the open door migration ideals of the woke Sinn Fein leadership. There were chants against the party in the East Wall and Drimnagh protests.

Remember when Gemma O'Doherty and Sinn Fein were best friends. When it was anti-water charges and anti-corruption, Sinn Fein were happy. Now the loons are anti-vaccine and anti-foreigner.
I dunno. The right wing groups are funded by the rich and tend to be single issue with no solutions to the issues that working class people are worried about.
SF is more like a Government in exile.

If a populist right wing party emerged and started campaigning on slogans like social housing for locals first, caps on immigration etc there would have to be some sort of impact on Sinn Fein.
It's no accident that the government are shipping migrants in to Sinn Fein strongholds and pitting them against the locals who see them as competition for resources.

Our local Sinn Féin councilor (always very popular with the locals) came out strongly, calling Ballagh a dumping ground for refugees. Looks like SF HQ made him delete his post, however.

https://roscommonpeople.ie/cllr-mulligan-faces-backlash-over-refugee-comments/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 08, 2023, 05:53:15 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Great to see. Because for a long time Sinn Fein said being rich was a crime.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2023, 05:58:10 PM
How much would solicitors typically earn?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: From the Bunker on January 08, 2023, 10:49:32 PM
Picture from Ballymun Immigration policy protest.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fl-aarXXoAE-8Sl?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 09, 2023, 03:51:26 AM
if sinn fein win the next election do you think we will see people storming the dail.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 2020 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2023, 09:44:20 AM
I presume he doesn't get an MP salary being an Abstentionist?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 09:50:57 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2023, 09:44:20 AM
I presume he doesn't get an MP salary being an Abstentionist?

Correct.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2023, 10:33:21 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 09:50:57 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2023, 09:44:20 AM
I presume he doesn't get an MP salary being an Abstentionist?

Correct.

Wonder does he take the average industrial wage from his own job and donate the rest to the party?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 09, 2023, 02:23:09 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.
When you look at the detail this was over a 2 year period and not p.a. At the end of the day he owns a business and is entitled to share in the profits in exchange for hours worked. He receives no income from being an MP.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 03:16:13 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D
Money talks and bullshit walks lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 09, 2023, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D
Turning down work along ethical lines is all well and good, but where do you draw the line?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: God14 on January 09, 2023, 04:08:12 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 09, 2023, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D
Turning down work along ethical lines is all well and good, but where do you draw the line?

maybe at one of europes most notorious drug traffickers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 09, 2023, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D
Turning down work along ethical lines is all well and good, but where do you draw the line?
Probably on the other side of murdering drug dealers lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 09, 2023, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D

not sure, guessing and supposing. So you dont know?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 06:15:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 09, 2023, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D

not sure, guessing and supposing. So you dont know?

I didn't but I checked & Finucane said they received instructions from Kinahan (which they could have refused to accept) so I wasn't too far away. Unless you know more ?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on January 09, 2023, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 09, 2023, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D
Turning down work along ethical lines is all well and good, but where do you draw the line?
Probably on the other side of murdering drug dealers lol
Pretty sure he hasn't been convicted of any murder, you should probably pass on any information if you're so sure about that.

You can't really draw any line, especially if you're a defence solicitor. They have to take the case if they're able to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StephenC on January 09, 2023, 08:36:13 PM
Load of shite lads. He took the poisonous drug dealers money with not a bother. Communities all round Ireland wrecked by what those scumbags do but sure ... where do you draw the line. FFS.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 09:17:28 PM
Quote from: StephenC on January 09, 2023, 08:36:13 PM
Load of shite lads. He took the poisonous drug dealers money with not a bother. Communities all round Ireland wrecked by what those scumbags do but sure ... where do you draw the line. FFS.

Ah the mental gymnastics some of these lads have to do is amazing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 10:08:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 09, 2023, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 09, 2023, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D
Turning down work along ethical lines is all well and good, but where do you draw the line?
Probably on the other side of murdering drug dealers lol
Pretty sure he hasn't been convicted of any murder, you should probably pass on any information if you're so sure about that.

You can't really draw any line, especially if you're a defence solicitor. They have to take the case if they're able to.
Don't be so pedantic. It's the Kinahan drug cartel they aren't exactly boy scouts lol. Not sure about that one, would they not be able to say no? Anyway like I said before money talks and bullshit walks so let him at it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2023, 10:17:30 PM
Away from politics, he has chased for yrs, trying to nail his father's killers, but at the same time will represent someone involving in killings down south. Can't understand it. Solicitors / Barristers don't seem to have a line representing someone, even if they know they guilty as here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on January 09, 2023, 10:18:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 10:08:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 09, 2023, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 09, 2023, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D
Turning down work along ethical lines is all well and good, but where do you draw the line?
Probably on the other side of murdering drug dealers lol
Pretty sure he hasn't been convicted of any murder, you should probably pass on any information if you're so sure about that.

You can't really draw any line, especially if you're a defence solicitor. They have to take the case if they're able to.
Don't be so pedantic. It's the Kinahan drug cartel they aren't exactly boy scouts lol. Not sure about that one, would they not be able to say no? Anyway like I said before money talks and bullshit walks so let him at it.
It's not pedantic, they have to take the case on if they have the capacity to take it when they're approached, unless they have a justifiable reason not to. Saying "nah you seem like an arsehole" doesn't cut it as an excuse if you're a defence lawyer.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2023, 10:20:04 PM
No they don't, I see solicitors refuse a simple divorce case, with no reasons required on their refusal
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 10:23:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 09, 2023, 10:18:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 10:08:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 09, 2023, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 09, 2023, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D
Turning down work along ethical lines is all well and good, but where do you draw the line?
Probably on the other side of murdering drug dealers lol
Pretty sure he hasn't been convicted of any murder, you should probably pass on any information if you're so sure about that.

You can't really draw any line, especially if you're a defence solicitor. They have to take the case if they're able to.
Don't be so pedantic. It's the Kinahan drug cartel they aren't exactly boy scouts lol. Not sure about that one, would they not be able to say no? Anyway like I said before money talks and bullshit walks so let him at it.
It's not pedantic, they have to take the case on if they have the capacity to take it when they're approached, unless they have a justifiable reason not to. Saying "nah you seem like an arsehole" doesn't cut it as an excuse if you're a defence lawyer.
Pedantic as in you're saying he hasnt been convicted of murder, maybe so but the dogs on the street know the sort of boys they are.

Not gonna argue re needing a  reason not to take a case as genuinely don't know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on January 09, 2023, 10:27:38 PM
Yea well I don't doubt what type of people they are
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on January 09, 2023, 10:28:42 PM
Yea they do, you can't be bluntly turned down for no reason
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2023, 10:32:16 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2023, 10:17:30 PM
Away from politics, but he has chased for yrs, trying to nail his father's killers, but at the same time will represent someone involving in killings down south. Can't understand it. Solicitors / Barristers don't seem to have a line representing someone, even if they know they guilty as here.

Barrister and solicitors represent everyone, one of the reasons his father was murdered was due to representing people up for murder.

So we just don't do it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 10, 2023, 07:00:37 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 06:15:11 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 09, 2023, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2023, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 09, 2023, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:45 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 08, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
John Finucane knocking out £161k in earnings outside being an MP.  There mustn't be enough hours in the day for that fella.

Should be said, that's over 3 years not 1. It was January 202 to December 2022. So 54k a year.
Hardly mindblowing money now is it...

he represented Daniel Kinahan in that time. Some of that £161k will have come from one of the worlds most wanted men.

Pretty sure that is the essence of the legal system, everyone is entitled to representation.

In fairness I'm not sure that was a legal aid type case, next barrister/solicitor up & you take the case. I'm guessing Kinahan approached Finucanes firm & they accepted instructions, he could have refused & you would have thought it would have made sense to from a PR perspective (never mind from an ethics standpoint), especially with Finucanes profile as a politician.

I suppose he knew Kinahan would be able to afford it   :D

not sure, guessing and supposing. So you dont know?

I didn't but I checked & Finucane said they received instructions from Kinahan (which they could have refused to accept) so I wasn't too far away. Unless you know more ?

I dont know anything. Can they refuse to accept?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 10, 2023, 08:05:09 AM
Ffs if defence barristers started rejecting cases based on morals nobody would represent some people. Its their job.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 10, 2023, 08:12:25 AM
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/contact-or-visit-us/helplines/practice-advice-service/q-and-as/refusing-to-provide-a-service
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2023, 10:01:23 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 10, 2023, 08:12:25 AM
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/contact-or-visit-us/helplines/practice-advice-service/q-and-as/refusing-to-provide-a-service

There is a can of worms there....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on January 10, 2023, 10:05:42 AM
You just say you are too busy ffs, it's not rocket science
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bogball88 on January 10, 2023, 10:16:25 AM
Director of Finucane Toner Ltd with a weekly commitment of appox 9-18 hours.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on January 11, 2023, 12:28:39 PM
Mary Lou not invited to talks with Cleverly and Heaton Harris this morning.

SF pull out of the talks and it seems so have the SDLP in support.

Nice to see Nationalism standing together for once.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 5times5times on January 11, 2023, 12:40:20 PM
Why would MLMCD be invited to a northern ireland talk?

Pram. Toys. Throw with that shower as normal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 12:50:17 PM
Maybe because she's the Party's leader?
Maybe it should be up to Parties to decide who to send?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 12:52:59 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on January 11, 2023, 12:40:20 PM
Why would MLMCD be invited to a northern ireland talk?

Pram. Toys. Throw with that shower as normal.

Ironically,  that represents 1916 in Roman numerals























(It doesn't really)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 11, 2023, 01:48:49 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 12:52:59 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on January 11, 2023, 12:40:20 PM
Why would MLMCD be invited to a northern ireland talk?

Pram. Toys. Throw with that shower as normal.

Ironically,  that represents 1916 in Roman numerals

Nearly lol.























(It doesn't really)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 11, 2023, 01:49:44 PM
Good to see the SDLP walking out in support.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on January 11, 2023, 01:53:30 PM
Yet another 'Crocodile' moment

Will they EVER learn
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on January 11, 2023, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on January 11, 2023, 12:40:20 PM
Why would MLMCD be invited to a northern ireland talk?

Pram. Toys. Throw with that shower as normal.

I'd say it's a stipulation made by the huns. This latest Tory  administration seems by top heavy with empathisers towards the Dupers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sandy Hill on January 11, 2023, 03:53:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 12:50:17 PM
Maybe because she's the Party's leader?
Maybe it should be up to Parties to decide who to send?

The Sinn Féin party leader in NI is Michelle O'Neill; Ms McDonald has no mandate in this part of the world.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2023, 03:58:51 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on January 11, 2023, 03:53:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 12:50:17 PM
Maybe because she's the Party's leader?
Maybe it should be up to Parties to decide who to send?

The Sinn Féin party leader in NI is Michelle O'Neill; Ms McDonald has no mandate in this part of the world.

A bit like James Cleverly then.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 11, 2023, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on January 11, 2023, 03:53:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 12:50:17 PM
Maybe because she's the Party's leader?
Maybe it should be up to Parties to decide who to send?

The Sinn Féin party leader in NI is Michelle O'Neill; Ms McDonald has no mandate in this part of the world.
She is the party leader. This is buffoonery, fair play to both the SDLP and SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 11, 2023, 04:06:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 11, 2023, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on January 11, 2023, 03:53:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 12:50:17 PM
Maybe because she's the Party's leader?
Maybe it should be up to Parties to decide who to send?

The Sinn Féin party leader in NI is Michelle O'Neill; Ms McDonald has no mandate in this part of the world.
She is the party leader. This is buffoonery, fair play to both the SDLP and SF.
What reason did the SDLP give? Not like them to back the Shinners so fair play
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 11, 2023, 04:10:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 11, 2023, 04:06:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 11, 2023, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on January 11, 2023, 03:53:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 12:50:17 PM
Maybe because she's the Party's leader?
Maybe it should be up to Parties to decide who to send?

The Sinn Féin party leader in NI is Michelle O'Neill; Ms McDonald has no mandate in this part of the world.
She is the party leader. This is buffoonery, fair play to both the SDLP and SF.
What reason did the SDLP give? Not like them to back the Shinners so fair play
Because they say Mary Lou is the party leader and shouldn't be excluded.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 11, 2023, 04:28:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 11, 2023, 04:10:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 11, 2023, 04:06:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 11, 2023, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on January 11, 2023, 03:53:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 12:50:17 PM
Maybe because she's the Party's leader?
Maybe it should be up to Parties to decide who to send?

The Sinn Féin party leader in NI is Michelle O'Neill; Ms McDonald has no mandate in this part of the world.
She is the party leader. This is buffoonery, fair play to both the SDLP and SF.
What reason did the SDLP give? Not like them to back the Shinners so fair play
Because they say Mary Lou is the party leader and shouldn't be excluded.
Just seen their statement there. Really pleasantly surprised. Good to see nationalists showing a united front for a change.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 05:30:19 PM
Is someone playing silly buggers here? Who? It would seem more like tories than the DUP?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on January 11, 2023, 05:42:40 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on January 11, 2023, 03:53:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 12:50:17 PM
Maybe because she's the Party's leader?
Maybe it should be up to Parties to decide who to send?

The Sinn Féin party leader in NI is Michelle O'Neill; Ms McDonald has no mandate in this part of the world.

How many votes do the Tories get here?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on January 11, 2023, 06:58:54 PM
Cleverly talking about "going down to Ireland".  That triggers me every time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2023, 08:41:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.

I don't trust Varadkar either, but he regretted this and said that he had never restricted a delegation, so it seemingly isn't his work this time.
https://twitter.com/PTHosford/status/1613262521174990862
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 11, 2023, 08:53:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2023, 08:41:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.

I don't trust Varadkar either, but he regretted this and said that he had never restricted a delegation, so it seemingly isn't his work this time.
https://twitter.com/PTHosford/status/1613262521174990862
He wouldn't lie would he lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 11, 2023, 08:53:23 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 11, 2023, 06:58:54 PM
Cleverly talking about "going down to Ireland".  That triggers me every time.
Almost as bad as FG members overseas in Belfast...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: From the Bunker on January 11, 2023, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.

I am no SF Fan either and this has Varadakar dirty tricks written all over it. He has nothing but disdain for SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 09:11:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 11, 2023, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.

I am no SF Fan either and this has Varadakar dirty tricks written all over it. He has nothing but disdain for SF.

Wouldn't trust varadkar  as far as I could throw him .  His disdain for sf is because he knows him and his party's days are  numbered. And it's all about  throwing out lies and bullsh1t to try and keep sf out.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 11, 2023, 09:17:49 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 09:11:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 11, 2023, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.

I am no SF Fan either and this has Varadakar dirty tricks written all over it. He has nothing but disdain for SF.

Wouldn't trust varadkar  as far as I could throw him .  His disdain for sf is because he knows him and his party's days are  numbered. And it's all about  throwing out lies and bullsh1t to try and keep sf out.

Christ almighty, this is Varadkar's fault!? :D
#thingsleodid
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2023, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 11, 2023, 08:53:00 PM
He wouldn't lie would he lol

No, I expect he might lie, but if he agreed this with the British beforehand and then criticised them for doing it afterwards then they'd be pissed and might say that he had agreed it.

Quote from: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 09:11:02 PM
Wouldn't trust varadkar  as far as I could throw him .  His disdain for sf is because he knows him and his party's days are  numbered. And it's all about  throwing out lies and bullsh1t to try and keep sf out.

His party will carry on, there will always be a role for a party of adults.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:21:18 PM
Mcdonald f**k all up here, I wouldn't vote for her, What's the point in Michelle O'Neill if she needs backing every time she has to met the UK govt. Did McGuinness need down south help when he was in the same position.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 11, 2023, 09:24:55 PM
Assistant to the regional manager
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 11, 2023, 09:17:49 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 09:11:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 11, 2023, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.

I am no SF Fan either and this has Varadakar dirty tricks written all over it. He has nothing but disdain for SF.

Wouldn't trust varadkar  as far as I could throw him .  His disdain for sf is because he knows him and his party's days are  numbered. And it's all about  throwing out lies and bullsh1t to try and keep sf out.

Christ almighty, this is Varadkar's fault!? :D
#thingsleodid

I didn't say this  was his fault , although  only time will tell on that one

I was talking in general , .  I just don't trust  him one bit
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:28:41 PM
I used to vote Sinn Fein to she came on board, she not even a real shinner, blow in from another party. Don't know what Adams was thinking when he decided on her. On relation to NI, if Michelle O'Neill can't dealt with it, there no point her been first minster. Again lifted way beyond others more capable, cause of who her party buddies were.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 09:31:57 PM
On a side issue ,  is Stephen Rea still available to  provide a voiceover for Mary Lou?

Christ , but  that accent would  cut steel
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sandy Hill on January 11, 2023, 09:49:40 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:21:18 PM
Mcdonald f**k all up here, I wouldn't vote for her, What's the point in Michelle O'Neill if she needs backing every time she has to met the UK govt. Did McGuinness need down south help when he was in the same position.

+1
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2023, 10:01:30 PM
Smokescreen????
NEW: The UK will bring forward legislation this week which could see work on the construction of border control posts at Northern Ireland ports resume, following months of controversy related to the Northern Ireland Protocol, @rtenews understands
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2023, 08:08:01 AM
Here's an interesting one...

McDonald is registered with the electoral commission as the leader of SF in NI.  :o
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on January 12, 2023, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:28:41 PM
I used to vote Sinn Fein to she came on board, she not even a real shinner, blow in from another party. Don't know what Adams was thinking when he decided on her. On relation to NI, if Michelle O'Neill can't dealt with it, there no point her been first minster. Again lifted way beyond others more capable, cause of who her party buddies were.

So many have the same feeling towards the new leadership including myself but unfortunately the way politics are going here their inadequacies are covered up by the actions of the DUP and FFG so people have no choice but to pile in behind them
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 08:48:57 AM
Quote from: Brendan on January 12, 2023, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:28:41 PM
I used to vote Sinn Fein to she came on board, she not even a real shinner, blow in from another party. Don't know what Adams was thinking when he decided on her. On relation to NI, if Michelle O'Neill can't dealt with it, there no point her been first minster. Again lifted way beyond others more capable, cause of who her party buddies were.

So many have the same feeling towards the new leadership including myself but unfortunately the way politics are going here their inadequacies are covered up by the actions of the DUP and FFG so people have no choice but to pile in behind them
Far from perfect. I actually like Mary Lou think she always speaks really well if you can get past her voice lol. Probably helps that a child could make Leo, Michael, Eamon and Jeffrey look stupid
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 12, 2023, 08:51:50 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 09:11:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 11, 2023, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.

I am no SF Fan either and this has Varadakar dirty tricks written all over it. He has nothing but disdain for SF.

Wouldn't trust varadkar  as far as I could throw him .  His disdain for sf is because he knows him and his party's days are  numbered. And it's all about  throwing out lies and bullsh1t to try and keep sf out.

You're talking as if SF are some sort of ultra squeaky clean political party and not one up to its eyes in murder and criminality. Any right thinking person has disdain for this party and what it got up to. You can't just erase that.
And to blame LV for what happened yesterday is paranoia beyond belief.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2023, 08:58:10 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2023, 10:01:30 PM
Smokescreen????
NEW: The UK will bring forward legislation this week which could see work on the construction of border control posts at Northern Ireland ports resume, following months of controversy related to the Northern Ireland Protocol, @rtenews understands

Sure they couldn't finish the Derry road so god knows how long it'll take to construct the border posts
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on January 12, 2023, 09:05:54 AM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on January 11, 2023, 09:49:40 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:21:18 PM
Mcdonald f**k all up here, I wouldn't vote for her, What's the point in Michelle O'Neill if she needs backing every time she has to met the UK govt. Did McGuinness need down south help when he was in the same position.

+1

He needed help from the then President of the party, Adams. Its the exact same thing. Imagine the British government saying back then "we'll speak to McGuinness but not Adams". It's just plain silly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2023, 09:14:30 AM
It was a bit of stupid pettiness by the 3rd most stupid British Government of the last 12 months.
Balance of probability at the behest of DUPUDA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2023, 09:15:56 AM
It looks like an effort to distract from something else. Triggers all sorts of emotion, nobody paying attention.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 09:21:01 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2023, 10:01:30 PM
Smokescreen????
NEW: The UK will bring forward legislation this week which could see work on the construction of border control posts at Northern Ireland ports resume, following months of controversy related to the Northern Ireland Protocol, @rtenews understands
Would they be that stupid?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 12, 2023, 09:21:33 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:21:18 PM
Mcdonald f**k all up here, I wouldn't vote for her, What's the point in Michelle O'Neill if she needs backing every time she has to met the UK govt. Did McGuinness need down south help when he was in the same position.

Not sure what planet you were living on during the Adams/McGuinness era but they routinely met the British Government together. Can you recall a single instance where they were told that they couldn't both attend a meeting with a British government minister? I certainly can't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 12, 2023, 09:25:18 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:28:41 PM
I used to vote Sinn Fein to she came on board....Don't know what Adams was thinking when he decided on her.

OK. We'll just ignore how they've grown to be comfortably the largest party in Ireland since she became leader then ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 09:26:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 12, 2023, 09:21:33 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:21:18 PM
Mcdonald f**k all up here, I wouldn't vote for her, What's the point in Michelle O'Neill if she needs backing every time she has to met the UK govt. Did McGuinness need down south help when he was in the same position.

Not sure what planet you were living on during the Adams/McGuinness era but they routinely met the British Government together. Can you recall a single instance where they were told that they couldn't both attend a meeting with a British government minister? I certainly can't.
Wildweasel is either too stupid to realise that Sinn Fein are one party and don't differentiate between north and south or is being a obtuse deliberately. I'm not sure
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 12, 2023, 09:29:51 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2023, 08:08:01 AM
Here's an interesting one...

McDonald is registered with the electoral commission as the leader of SF in NI.  :o

She isn't registered as the "leader of SF in NI". She is registered as the leader of SF. Probably because that's what she is.

Not that interesting is it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 12, 2023, 09:33:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2023, 08:51:50 AM
You're talking as if SF are some sort of ultra squeaky clean political party and not one up to its eyes in murder and criminality.

SF as a party is currently involved in murder and criminality? Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 12, 2023, 09:55:49 AM
do you think sinn fein will transform into right wing if it suits them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 12, 2023, 10:04:50 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:21:18 PM
Mcdonald f**k all up here, I wouldn't vote for her, What's the point in Michelle O'Neill if she needs backing every time she has to met the UK govt. Did McGuinness need down south help when he was in the same position.
Like it or not ML is the leader of SF period. You don't get to tell them who they send to talks, unless you are a member, which given your bile I doubt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 12, 2023, 10:09:29 AM
A few closet DUPers on here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2023, 10:13:45 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 12, 2023, 09:29:51 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2023, 08:08:01 AM
Here's an interesting one...

McDonald is registered with the electoral commission as the leader of SF in NI.  :o

She isn't registered as the "leader of SF in NI". She is registered as the leader of SF. Probably because that's what she is.

Not that interesting is it?

She is from what I saw and it is interesting if so. You are very defensive as my point is not anti SF. It's interesting from the perspective of if that's the case then cleverly/ Tories or whoeger are 100% in the wrong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tyrone08 on January 12, 2023, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 09:21:01 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2023, 10:01:30 PM
Smokescreen????
NEW: The UK will bring forward legislation this week which could see work on the construction of border control posts at Northern Ireland ports resume, following months of controversy related to the Northern Ireland Protocol, @rtenews understands
Would they be that stupid?

Difference this time is the border posts are at the ports and not the border. This would effectively say ni is separate from UK which will piss of the dup further
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 10:19:48 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 12, 2023, 09:33:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2023, 08:51:50 AM
You're talking as if SF are some sort of ultra squeaky clean political party and not one up to its eyes in murder and criminality.

SF as a party is currently involved in murder and criminality? Care to elaborate?
Don't bother lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 10:22:15 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 12, 2023, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 09:21:01 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2023, 10:01:30 PM
Smokescreen????
NEW: The UK will bring forward legislation this week which could see work on the construction of border control posts at Northern Ireland ports resume, following months of controversy related to the Northern Ireland Protocol, @rtenews understands
Would they be that stupid?

Difference this time is the border posts are at the ports and not the border. This would effectively say ni is separate from UK which will piss of the dup further
Jesus I completely read that wrong, thought it meant checkpoints between the 26 and 6. Checks at ports are annoying too tbh but better than land border. DUP getting shafted by the Tories again who would have seen that coming.

Funny thing is, unionists would be treated with far more respect and have a far greater say in things in a United Ireland only they are too pig headed to see it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mourne Red on January 12, 2023, 10:24:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2023, 08:51:50 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 09:11:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 11, 2023, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.

I am no SF Fan either and this has Varadakar dirty tricks written all over it. He has nothing but disdain for SF.

Wouldn't trust varadkar  as far as I could throw him .  His disdain for sf is because he knows him and his party's days are  numbered. And it's all about  throwing out lies and bullsh1t to try and keep sf out.

You're talking as if SF are some sort of ultra squeaky clean political party and not one up to its eyes in murder and criminality. Any right thinking person has disdain for this party and what it got up to. You can't just erase that.
And to blame LV for what happened yesterday is paranoia beyond belief.

Jesus Trailer you are as thick as shite.. I take it you don't vote for FF/FG either then? Seeing they were involved in murder and criminality themselves? or any political party for that fact seeing most are corrupt
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tyrone08 on January 12, 2023, 10:26:58 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 10:22:15 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 12, 2023, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 09:21:01 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2023, 10:01:30 PM
Smokescreen????
NEW: The UK will bring forward legislation this week which could see work on the construction of border control posts at Northern Ireland ports resume, following months of controversy related to the Northern Ireland Protocol, @rtenews understands
Would they be that stupid?

Difference this time is the border posts are at the ports and not the border. This would effectively say ni is separate from UK which will piss of the dup further
Jesus I completely read that wrong, thought it meant checkpoints between the 26 and 6. Checks at ports are annoying too tbh but better than land border. DUP getting shafted by the Tories again who would have seen that coming.

Funny thing is, unionists would be treated with far more respect and have a far greater say in things in a United Ireland only they are too pig headed to see it.

Yeah that's the funny part, they would be treated far better in an UI than in the UK but unfortunately for them they are too ignorant to realise that.

You will hear loyalist now calling for attacks but they can't attack the posts put up by the UK government so will be interesting to see what happens over the next while
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2023, 10:35:20 AM
They must have wanted to throw a bone to the DUP to distract from another Brexit climbdown.
The DUP should focus on Christmas pantomimes
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 10:44:21 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on January 12, 2023, 10:24:46 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2023, 08:51:50 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 11, 2023, 09:11:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 11, 2023, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2023, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: pbat on January 11, 2023, 05:39:06 PM
Not often I would agree with Ben Lowry but think he might be onto something when he said that the Dublin Governments fingerprints maybe all over todays exclusion.

I have to prefix this with I am not a sf fan... I really don't think varadakar is particularly trustworthy and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is his work.

I am no SF Fan either and this has Varadakar dirty tricks written all over it. He has nothing but disdain for SF.

Wouldn't trust varadkar  as far as I could throw him .  His disdain for sf is because he knows him and his party's days are  numbered. And it's all about  throwing out lies and bullsh1t to try and keep sf out.

You're talking as if SF are some sort of ultra squeaky clean political party and not one up to its eyes in murder and criminality. Any right thinking person has disdain for this party and what it got up to. You can't just erase that.
And to blame LV for what happened yesterday is paranoia beyond belief.

Jesus Trailer you are as thick as shite.. I take it you don't vote for FF/FG either then? Seeing they were involved in murder and criminality themselves? or any political party for that fact seeing most are corrupt
You're as bad for replying lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2023, 11:26:35 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0112/1346233-ni-protocol/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on January 12, 2023, 12:16:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2023, 11:26:35 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0112/1346233-ni-protocol/

All the kinds of things DUP blocked when in Stormont (Abortion rights, marriage equality, Irish Language Act) are getting implemented under direct rule. The Brits going ahead and building the Irish Sea-border Poots Posts. It reminds me of that video of the two Loyalist women saying why they vote for them. It says it all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 12, 2023, 12:40:21 PM
To keep themmuns out presumably?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on January 12, 2023, 09:26:05 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 12, 2023, 10:26:58 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 10:22:15 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 12, 2023, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 09:21:01 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2023, 10:01:30 PM
Smokescreen????
NEW: The UK will bring forward legislation this week which could see work on the construction of border control posts at Northern Ireland ports resume, following months of controversy related to the Northern Ireland Protocol, @rtenews understands
Would they be that stupid?

Difference this time is the border posts are at the ports and not the border. This would effectively say ni is separate from UK which will piss of the dup further
Jesus I completely read that wrong, thought it meant checkpoints between the 26 and 6. Checks at ports are annoying too tbh but better than land border. DUP getting shafted by the Tories again who would have seen that coming.

Funny thing is, unionists would be treated with far more respect and have a far greater say in things in a United Ireland only they are too pig headed to see it.

Yeah that's the funny part, they would be treated far better in an UI than in the UK but unfortunately for them they are too ignorant to realise that.

You will hear loyalist now calling for attacks but they can't attack the posts put up by the UK government so will be interesting to see what happens over the next while

Look, there's no point in talking about a UI when the Nationalists in NI hardly want it, never mind the Unionists
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on January 12, 2023, 10:40:05 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 12, 2023, 09:26:05 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 12, 2023, 10:26:58 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 10:22:15 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 12, 2023, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2023, 09:21:01 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2023, 10:01:30 PM
Smokescreen????
NEW: The UK will bring forward legislation this week which could see work on the construction of border control posts at Northern Ireland ports resume, following months of controversy related to the Northern Ireland Protocol, @rtenews understands
Would they be that stupid?

Difference this time is the border posts are at the ports and not the border. This would effectively say ni is separate from UK which will piss of the dup further
Jesus I completely read that wrong, thought it meant checkpoints between the 26 and 6. Checks at ports are annoying too tbh but better than land border. DUP getting shafted by the Tories again who would have seen that coming.

Funny thing is, unionists would be treated with far more respect and have a far greater say in things in a United Ireland only they are too pig headed to see it.

Yeah that's the funny part, they would be treated far better in an UI than in the UK but unfortunately for them they are too ignorant to realise that.

You will hear loyalist now calling for attacks but they can't attack the posts put up by the UK government so will be interesting to see what happens over the next while

Look, there's no point in talking about a UI when the Nationalists in NI hardly want it, never mind the Unionists

I don't think too many people in the south would be keen to take us either.  Especially when it come to the economic aspects NI would not be long putting a dent in the RoI GDP.  If NI was a limited company it would have went bust years ago.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 13, 2023, 11:39:07 AM
i dont know where to put this  but caller into nolan show says ceasefire on its last days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn5nMRRSuU&ab_channel=NC
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2023, 11:50:48 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 13, 2023, 11:39:07 AM
i dont know where to put this  but caller into nolan show says ceasefire on its last days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn5nMRRSuU&ab_channel=NC

Gary is full of shit!!

It should be in the full of shit thread!!  Who is he going fight with?

It's going to wake people up!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on January 13, 2023, 11:52:29 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 13, 2023, 11:39:07 AM
i dont know where to put this  but caller into nolan show says ceasefire on its last days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn5nMRRSuU&ab_channel=NC

Loyalist ceasefire, when was that?

I also don't remember General DeChastelan or whatever he was called announcing that he had witnessed any loyalist groups putting their arms beyond use.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 13, 2023, 11:54:26 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 13, 2023, 11:39:07 AM
i dont know where to put this  but caller into nolan show says ceasefire on its last days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn5nMRRSuU&ab_channel=NC
Not in this thread surely lol. Can't blame the Shinners on this one.

Who is the violence going to be against exactly?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on January 13, 2023, 11:59:50 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 13, 2023, 11:54:26 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 13, 2023, 11:39:07 AM
i dont know where to put this  but caller into nolan show says ceasefire on its last days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn5nMRRSuU&ab_channel=NC
Not in this thread surely lol. Can't blame the Shinners on this one.

Who is the violence going to be against exactly?

If you'd have listened to Curruthers last night on "the view" you'd almost think it was the Shinners fault the DUP backed themselves into a corner over the protocol and should help them out of it.

It was a strange line of questioning fired at O'Dowd to say the least.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 13, 2023, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 13, 2023, 11:59:50 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 13, 2023, 11:54:26 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 13, 2023, 11:39:07 AM
i dont know where to put this  but caller into nolan show says ceasefire on its last days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn5nMRRSuU&ab_channel=NC
Not in this thread surely lol. Can't blame the Shinners on this one.

Who is the violence going to be against exactly?

If you'd have listened to Curruthers last night on "the view" you'd almost think it was the Shinners fault the DUP backed themselves into a corner over the protocol and should help them out of it.

It was a strange line of questioning fired at O'Dowd to say the least.
Didn't see it. It probably will get ugly at some point and no doubt they'll do nothing but target some innocent Catholics. Nolan, Bryson, Allister and the DUPers etc have a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on January 13, 2023, 12:51:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2023, 11:50:48 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 13, 2023, 11:39:07 AM
i dont know where to put this  but caller into nolan show says ceasefire on its last days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn5nMRRSuU&ab_channel=NC

Gary is full of shit!!

It should be in the full of shit thread!!  Who is he going fight with?

It's going to wake people up!!
They're all full of shit. A few more burnt buses on the Shankill and Rathcoole will be the height of it. The various criminal factions of the UDA and UVF are far more concerned about their racketeering, loansharking and drug-dealing than the protocol. They threatened the same with the flag protests and apart from a few riots that soon fizzled out they had nothing else up their sleeve.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 13, 2023, 07:16:02 PM
The good Ole loyalist, we fight them on the beaches speech. Don't see these concerned locals, kicking up a fuss about all the drugs in circulation in their areas.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2023, 07:56:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 13, 2023, 11:52:29 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 13, 2023, 11:39:07 AM
i dont know where to put this  but caller into nolan show says ceasefire on its last days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn5nMRRSuU&ab_channel=NC

Loyalist ceasefire, when was that?

I also don't remember General DeChastelan or whatever he was called announcing that he had witnessed any loyalist groups putting their arms beyond use.

Exactly never. Too busy racketeering and terrorising their own communities. No support for the gfa and decrying how the protocol is in breach of the thing they don't even support. They need to be careful there or a load of them will be back in jail where they belong.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 25, 2023, 08:03:41 PM
100 masked men protest out sinn fein office as a show of force against sinn fein.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 08:17:57 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 25, 2023, 08:03:41 PM
100 masked men protest out sinn fein office as a show of force against sinn fein.

Did you count them?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2023, 08:20:15 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 25, 2023, 08:03:41 PM
100 masked men protest out sinn fein office as a show of force against sinn fein.
The ysual Extremist filth no doubt ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 02, 2023, 10:27:32 AM
Eoin O Broin going after the guards on Twitter. Can wait for them to get into power. It will be a shit show.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2023, 11:21:57 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2023, 10:27:32 AM
Eoin O Broin going after the guards on Twitter. Can wait for them to get into power. It will be a shit show.

He probably should make sure that he keeps the tax on his yoke up to date.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on April 02, 2023, 11:44:28 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2023, 10:27:32 AM
Eoin O Broin going after the guards on Twitter. Can wait for them to get into power. It will be a shit show.

It's a shit show now. What's your point? I hope the first thing they do is exactly that, sacking the MI5 operative masquerading as Garda Commissioner.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 02, 2023, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2023, 10:27:32 AM
Eoin O Broin going after the guards on Twitter. Can wait for them to get into power. It will be a shit show.

Faux outrage.

Buy a copy of it and money goes to homeless charities.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 02, 2023, 11:54:40 AM
A TD trying to turn the public against AGS is disgraceful.
Imagine having a SF minster for justice after this on top of everything else.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 02, 2023, 12:11:48 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 02, 2023, 11:54:40 AM
A TD trying to turn the public against AGS is disgraceful.
Imagine having a SF minster for justice after this on top of everything else.

That and Dedence won't be happening, those posts will go to other Parties in the SF Coalition.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on April 02, 2023, 12:18:22 PM
A bit of political art has really ruffled a few feathers..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 02, 2023, 11:14:01 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 02, 2023, 11:54:40 AM
A TD trying to turn the public against AGS is disgraceful.
Imagine having a SF minster for justice after this on top of everything else.
If you actually think the art piece is intended as an attack on the Gardaí you're obviously not the sharpest tool in the political box. I mean obviously there are people knowingly misrepresenting it as such but to actually believe it? Astonishing ignorance.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 03, 2023, 08:29:39 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2023, 11:14:01 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 02, 2023, 11:54:40 AM
A TD trying to turn the public against AGS is disgraceful.
Imagine having a SF minster for justice after this on top of everything else.
If you actually think the art piece is intended as an attack on the Gardaí you're obviously not the sharpest tool in the political box. I mean obviously there are people knowingly misrepresenting it as such but to actually believe it? Astonishing ignorance.

If you believe a high profile TD from one of the leading parties posting this, won't encourage people to view AGS as "against" the people, then you and EOB are very naive
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 03, 2023, 09:06:42 AM
Wasn't it squatters at a business premises anyway? With no tenancy agreement or that in place? I'm sorry but if you're the owner of that property you have every right to get them out to frig.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 09:53:24 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 03, 2023, 08:29:39 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2023, 11:14:01 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 02, 2023, 11:54:40 AM
A TD trying to turn the public against AGS is disgraceful.
Imagine having a SF minster for justice after this on top of everything else.
If you actually think the art piece is intended as an attack on the Gardaí you're obviously not the sharpest tool in the political box. I mean obviously there are people knowingly misrepresenting it as such but to actually believe it? Astonishing ignorance.

If you believe a high profile TD from one of the leading parties posting this, won't encourage people to view AGS as "against" the people, then you and EOB are very naive

Tubber, you can try all you like but I simply refuse to accept that you genuinely do think it was a commentary on the gardai rather than a commentary on the eviction ban story which has been dominating the headlines for the past week. You're like the FG TDs and journalists on twitter in the last 24 hours, all rushing to misrepresent it and desperately hoping people are stupid enough to fall for their dishonest bulls**t.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 10:03:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......

Says the man who's been told what to think by the Indo all his life   ;D

Besides, I was merely giving Tubber the benefit of the doubt in saying there's no way anyone could be stupid enough to actually believe the tweeting of the art wasn't a commentary on the topic that's dominated the news for the preceding 2 weeks. I'm merely arguing that he's just trying to stir sh*t and hoping people are daft enough to fall for it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2023, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......

The usual playing the man not the ball from Rossfan. God forbid you'd actually make a comment on the discussion instead.

There's been plenty of criticism of the eviction ban and  AGS's role. Is it cause a painting was used this time that it's got people in a tissy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2023, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......

The usual playing the man not the ball from Rossfan. God forbid you'd actually make a comment on the discussion instead.

There's been plenty of criticism of the eviction ban and  AGS's role. Is it cause a painting was used this time that it's got people in a tissy?

Yeah, faux outrage...as usual.

Can't address the issue of the eviction ban etc.   People are not stupid.

His tweet has clearly ruffled a few feathers in the establishment...which is great.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2023, 12:15:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2023, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......

The usual playing the man not the ball from Rossfan. God forbid you'd actually make a comment on the discussion instead.

There's been plenty of criticism of the eviction ban and  AGS's role. Is it cause a painting was used this time that it's got people in a tissy?

Yeah, faux outrage...as usual.

Can't address the issue of the eviction ban etc.   People are not stupid.

His tweet has clearly ruffled a few feathers in the establishment...which is great.

"the establishment" LOL!!

Scundered for ye. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 03, 2023, 01:10:54 PM
SF have a law and order image problem. Stuff like this does no favours.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 01:21:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 03, 2023, 01:10:54 PM
SF have a law and order image problem. Stuff like this does no favours.

Stuff like this is a transparent campaign by the government parties to get people talking about Eoin O'Broin instead of the eviction ban votes. Absolutely mad to think anyone is daft enough to fall for such a desperate attempt at manipulation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 03, 2023, 01:25:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 01:21:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 03, 2023, 01:10:54 PM
SF have a law and order image problem. Stuff like this does no favours.

Stuff like this is a transparent campaign by the government parties to get people talking about Eoin O'Broin instead of the eviction ban votes. Absolutely mad to think anyone is daft enough to fall for such a desperate attempt at manipulation.

If they wanted to focus on the eviction ban, why bring the guards into it? Sharing an image of guards at an 1800s eviction is irresponsible at best - that image is not anything close to what's happening today.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 02:04:06 PM
Sadly the McCabe, Hand, Sheehan, Quaid and Clerkin families wish their Garda family members had been demonised rather than murdered.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 03:01:44 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 03, 2023, 01:25:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 01:21:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 03, 2023, 01:10:54 PM
SF have a law and order image problem. Stuff like this does no favours.

Stuff like this is a transparent campaign by the government parties to get people talking about Eoin O'Broin instead of the eviction ban votes. Absolutely mad to think anyone is daft enough to fall for such a desperate attempt at manipulation.

If they wanted to focus on the eviction ban, why bring the guards into it? Sharing an image of guards at an 1800s eviction is irresponsible at best - that image is not anything close to what's happening today.

Not anything close? It used actual images of the guards assisting men in balaclavas at an eviction.
(https://www.irishtimes.com/resizer/u3Zcmfc2QBWxIGSsuMLG7arkybs=/1200x630/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/irishtimes/VE4DUYVSNCDZPTW3BRB6ZY4RAY.jpg)

But anyway, isn't that besides the point. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I can't seriously believe you can't see this as a most blatantly transparent example of politicians slapping a 'dead cat' on the table to distract from negative publicity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 03, 2023, 04:58:22 PM
The Guards apply the law determined in the place where Eoin Ó Broin works, he should change it there if he has a problem not slag off people who implement the law.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 05:10:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2023, 12:15:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2023, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......

The usual playing the man not the ball from Rossfan. God forbid you'd actually make a comment on the discussion instead.

There's been plenty of criticism of the eviction ban and  AGS's role. Is it cause a painting was used this time that it's got people in a tissy?

Yeah, faux outrage...as usual.

Can't address the issue of the eviction ban etc.   People are not stupid.

His tweet has clearly ruffled a few feathers in the establishment...which is great.

"the establishment" LOL!!

Scundered for ye.

Rattled? I hope so.

As I say, faux outrage.

Instead of focusing on the housing crisis, caused by the establishment, you pretend you are outraged.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2023, 05:12:57 PM
SF have no respect for law and order.
When they get into power it will be a shit show. Imagine Mary Lou as Taoiseach attending a commemoration for IRA Volunteer who murdered a Guard? Remember they gave Pearse McAuley a standing ovation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2023, 05:15:59 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 05:10:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2023, 12:15:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2023, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......

The usual playing the man not the ball from Rossfan. God forbid you'd actually make a comment on the discussion instead.

There's been plenty of criticism of the eviction ban and  AGS's role. Is it cause a painting was used this time that it's got people in a tissy?

Yeah, faux outrage...as usual.

Can't address the issue of the eviction ban etc.   People are not stupid.

His tweet has clearly ruffled a few feathers in the establishment...which is great.

"the establishment" LOL!!

Scundered for ye.

Rattled? I hope so.

As I say, faux outrage.

Instead of focusing on the housing crisis, caused by the establishment, you pretend you are outraged.

What about the housing crisis in the North then? Who has been in power this last 10 years?

"The Establishment" is the same shite Brexit gobshites come out with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 05:25:31 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2023, 05:15:59 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 05:10:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2023, 12:15:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2023, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......

The usual playing the man not the ball from Rossfan. God forbid you'd actually make a comment on the discussion instead.

There's been plenty of criticism of the eviction ban and  AGS's role. Is it cause a painting was used this time that it's got people in a tissy?

Yeah, faux outrage...as usual.

Can't address the issue of the eviction ban etc.   People are not stupid.

His tweet has clearly ruffled a few feathers in the establishment...which is great.

"the establishment" LOL!!

Scundered for ye.

Rattled? I hope so.

As I say, faux outrage.

Instead of focusing on the housing crisis, caused by the establishment, you pretend you are outraged.

What about the housing crisis in the North then? Who has been in power this last 10 years?

"The Establishment" is the same shite Brexit gobshites come out with.

The Tories, essentially. Or did you think that Stormont is an actual government with actual fiscal powers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 06:03:23 PM
Deputy O Broin issues an apology.
How will the SF spokespeople here cope with that? ::)


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0403/1367943-gardai-tweet/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 06:03:23 PM
Deputy O Broin issues an apology.
How will the SF spokespeople here cope with that? ::)


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0403/1367943-gardai-tweet/

No he hasn't. Is there any bit of this story you lot can be honest about or is the plan to misrepresent the truth at every juncture?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 07:23:50 PM
He apologised to the AGSI Secretary, presumably on his Party Leaders instructions.
2nd time in recent times EOB has had his knuckles rapped by his Boss.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 03, 2023, 08:36:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 06:03:23 PM
Deputy O Broin issues an apology.
How will the SF spokespeople here cope with that? ::)


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0403/1367943-gardai-tweet/

No he hasn't. Is there any bit of this story you lot can be honest about or is the plan to misrepresent the truth at every juncture?

Mary Lou was quite clear that there was no criticism of AGS and they are only doing their job. I'm sure EOB has been told this is his opinion as well. Did you get the memo yet?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2023, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 05:25:31 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2023, 05:15:59 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 05:10:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2023, 12:15:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2023, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......

The usual playing the man not the ball from Rossfan. God forbid you'd actually make a comment on the discussion instead.

There's been plenty of criticism of the eviction ban and  AGS's role. Is it cause a painting was used this time that it's got people in a tissy?

Yeah, faux outrage...as usual.

Can't address the issue of the eviction ban etc.   People are not stupid.

His tweet has clearly ruffled a few feathers in the establishment...which is great.

"the establishment" LOL!!

Scundered for ye.

Rattled? I hope so.

As I say, faux outrage.

Instead of focusing on the housing crisis, caused by the establishment, you pretend you are outraged.

What about the housing crisis in the North then? Who has been in power this last 10 years?

"The Establishment" is the same shite Brexit gobshites come out with.

The Tories, essentially. Or did you think that Stormont is an actual government with actual fiscal powers?

Take credit for the good, take no responsibility for the bad. The Sinn Fein way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 10:48:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2023, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 05:25:31 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2023, 05:15:59 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 05:10:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2023, 12:15:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2023, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 09:57:50 AM
SF's spokesperson on GAA board now deciding what people think......

The usual playing the man not the ball from Rossfan. God forbid you'd actually make a comment on the discussion instead.

There's been plenty of criticism of the eviction ban and  AGS's role. Is it cause a painting was used this time that it's got people in a tissy?

Yeah, faux outrage...as usual.

Can't address the issue of the eviction ban etc.   People are not stupid.

His tweet has clearly ruffled a few feathers in the establishment...which is great.

"the establishment" LOL!!

Scundered for ye.

Rattled? I hope so.

As I say, faux outrage.

Instead of focusing on the housing crisis, caused by the establishment, you pretend you are outraged.

What about the housing crisis in the North then? Who has been in power this last 10 years?

"The Establishment" is the same shite Brexit gobshites come out with.

The Tories, essentially. Or did you think that Stormont is an actual government with actual fiscal powers?

Take credit for the good, take no responsibility for the bad. The Sinn Fein way.

Isn't that the way of every political party in the world? Is it any different to you attempting to deny the reality of the fiscally powerless entity that stormont is, purely in order to pin responsibility on SF for anything bad you can think of?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 07:23:50 PM
He apologised to the AGSI Secretary, presumably on his Party Leaders instructions.
2nd time in recent times EOB has had his knuckles rapped by his Boss.
Again, no he didn't.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 03, 2023, 10:55:10 PM
He never apologised.

The establishment lads on here trying to twist things for their own agenda.  I wonder why?...lol.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 10:55:52 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 03, 2023, 08:36:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 06:03:23 PM
Deputy O Broin issues an apology.
How will the SF spokespeople here cope with that? ::)


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0403/1367943-gardai-tweet/

No he hasn't. Is there any bit of this story you lot can be honest about or is the plan to misrepresent the truth at every juncture?

Mary Lou was quite clear that there was no criticism of AGS and they are only doing their job. I'm sure EOB has been told this is his opinion as well. Did you get the memo yet?

I think everyone with a brain cell is quote clear that it wasn't a commentary on the gardai. Isn't that what I've been saying all along? That nobody, yourself included, could be so stupid to genuinely think it was anything other than a commentary on the evictions debate that has been raging for the past fortnight? I mean, surely you can recognise the Dead Cat strategy when you see it? You're not actually that gullible as to fall for the oldest political trick in the book, surely?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2023, 10:58:57 PM
Heard someone else talk about "the establishment" on TV tonight.... It was Laura trump lol!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 11:35:00 PM
The poor Shinners here in a tizzy as Marylou makes EOB "clarify" to AGSI.
He made a sincere "clarification" to AGSI Secretary.
I presume he deleted his masterpiece too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 04, 2023, 12:14:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 11:35:00 PM
The poor Shinners here in a tizzy as Marylou makes EOB "clarify" to AGSI.
He made a sincere "clarification" to AGSI Secretary.
I presume he deleted his masterpiece too.

lol So after twice being told to stop lying about an apology, you're now describing his comments as a "sincere clarification"?!!! You have to laugh!! Did you think sticking the word "sincere" in front of it might somehow blur the lines between your false claim of "apology" and the reality which was a mere clarification? I dunno, I'm not sure it comes across as desperate enough...maybe you could have tried "heartfelt clarification" or something instead?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 04, 2023, 09:01:39 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 11:35:00 PM
The poor Shinners here in a tizzy as Marylou makes EOB "clarify" to AGSI.
He made a sincere "clarification" to AGSI Secretary.
I presume he deleted his masterpiece too.

I thought you said it was an apology earlier....twice in a matter of minutes.

Now it's a clarification.

Some crawling back there...lol.

What a climb down.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 04, 2023, 10:17:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 11:35:00 PM
The poor Shinners here in a tizzy as Marylou makes EOB "clarify" to AGSI.
He made a sincere "clarification" to AGSI Secretary.
I presume he deleted his masterpiece too.

Put down the shovel 😂

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 04, 2023, 10:28:52 AM
In a state which can look back to the not too distant past at the Emergency Powers Act, the Censorship of Films Act, the Censorship of Publications Act, the Committee on Evil Literature, Section 31 etc etc etc, last night on the Tonight Show we had the spectacle of a "journalist" (in the form of Fionnan Sheahan) in a debate with the artist who produced the eviction image, and attacking him for being "politically motivated". Apparently Fionnan pines for a society where art and political satire should be non-political.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2023, 10:34:59 AM
The pushback by Fionnan Sheehan and others on the Gardai is wrong.
The evictions are wrong. As Fr Peter McVerry said they could have arranged overflow accommodation to deal with the ending of the ban. They chose not to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 04, 2023, 10:44:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2023, 10:34:59 AM
The pushback by Fionnan Sheehan and others on the Gardai is wrong.
The evictions are wrong. As Fr Peter McVerry said they could have arranged overflow accommodation to deal with the ending of the ban. They chose not to.
And if they don't want people getting angry about the ending of the ban, or the failure to arrange overflow accommodation while the numbers of homeless people is touching 12,000; then what better way than to try to distract everyone by pretending that what we really ought to be angry about is Eoin O'Broin retweeting a piece of satirical art instead.

FFS even Leo Varakar's biggest fanboy in journalism is calling out this charade that Tubberman, Rossfan, Trailer etc would like us all to be stupid enough to fall for:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fs2c9WiWYAAJ0EU?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2023, 12:32:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 04, 2023, 10:44:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2023, 10:34:59 AM
The pushback by Fionnan Sheehan and others on the Gardai is wrong.
The evictions are wrong. As Fr Peter McVerry said they could have arranged overflow accommodation to deal with the ending of the ban. They chose not to.
And if they don't want people getting angry about the ending of the ban, or the failure to arrange overflow accommodation while the numbers of homeless people is touching 12,000; then what better way than to try to distract everyone by pretending that what we really ought to be angry about is Eoin O'Broin retweeting a piece of satirical art instead.

FFS even Leo Varakar's biggest fanboy in journalism is calling out this charade that Tubberman, Rossfan, Trailer etc would like us all to be stupid enough to fall for:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fs2c9WiWYAAJ0EU?format=jpg&name=small)
Totally agree.
The reaction to the eviction ban ending is not PR manageable.
The scale of the clusterfuck is enormous and could bring down the government.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 04, 2023, 02:09:34 PM
The ban has to end. It's easy for SF who aren't in power to criticise. What is the alternative? No evictions ever? If landlords can't evict tenants legally then many will choose to sell or simply not rent the property. Making the crisis worse. There is always a need for a rental market.
The housing crisis is a disaster and a shame on Ireland. However it is not the only country dealing with a housing shortage.
As the economy has grown in the south the failure to invest in housing and infrastructure is coming back to haunt FG and FF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 04, 2023, 02:15:46 PM
CorrectcTrailer, they are increasing SF's potential vote everyday.
Obvious from 2917ba oro active approach was needed.
I see the Land Development Agency has got/is getting a site in the centre of Galway City with potential for 750 homes......


Won't be built till 20fkn30.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 04, 2023, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 04, 2023, 10:17:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 11:35:00 PM
The poor Shinners here in a tizzy as Marylou makes EOB "clarify" to AGSI.
He made a sincere "clarification" to AGSI Secretary.
I presume he deleted his masterpiece too.

Put down the shovel 😂
There are none so blind  :D
Just as well for SF that the Dear Leader has a bit more political acumen than their GAAboard spokespeople.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 04, 2023, 03:35:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 04, 2023, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 04, 2023, 10:17:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 11:35:00 PM
The poor Shinners here in a tizzy as Marylou makes EOB "clarify" to AGSI.
He made a sincere "clarification" to AGSI Secretary.
I presume he deleted his masterpiece too.

Put down the shovel 😂
There are none so blind  :D
Just as well for SF that the Dear Leader has a bit more political acumen than their GAAboard spokespeople.
FFS let it slide of the page  for your own sake.  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2023, 05:46:22 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?action=post;topic=15128.9075;last_msg=2191840

On the Tweet of a reworked famine eviction picture by Sinn Féin TD Eoin Ó Broin, Commissioner Harris said that the deputy "meant no offence and it is sensible of us not to take offence but it does highlight what a contentious issue this is in society."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2023, 05:47:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 04, 2023, 02:09:34 PM
The ban has to end. It's easy for SF who aren't in power to criticise. What is the alternative? No evictions ever? If landlords can't evict tenants legally then many will choose to sell or simply not rent the property. Making the crisis worse. There is always a need for a rental market.
The housing crisis is a disaster and a shame on Ireland. However it is not the only country dealing with a housing shortage.
As the economy has grown in the south the failure to invest in housing and infrastructure is coming back to haunt FG and FF.
It obviously couldn't go on forever but the Government didn't plan how to deal with the consequences of their decision. they just delivered it.  That is deplorable.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/04/01/cliff-taylor-ireland-has-lots-of-cash-but-must-get-better-at-spending-it/
Just as Ireland got caught by a failure to anticipate the scale of housing need arising from economic and population growth after 2015, we also clearly do not have the capacity in much of the State machine – the civil and wider public service – to deliver on the scale required. This has created a credibility gap in Irish politics, a lack of trust in what can actually be delivered.
We have seen it all before: the failure over many years to deliver on successive housing plans, the eternity it is taking to get any shift on building on State lands, the snail-like delivery of major projects such as the Children's Hospital, the failure to meet climate goals, the slow-bicycle race that is Sláintecare, and so on. And the other manifestation of the lack of State capacity are shortages: of houses, apartments, hospital beds, consultants to perform operations, mental health services and so on.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 07:53:06 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 07:23:50 PM
He apologised to the AGSI Secretary, presumably on his Party Leaders instructions.
2nd time in recent times EOB has had his knuckles rapped by his Boss.
Again, no he didn't.

Yes, he did. Antoinette Cunningham of AGSI confirmed he "expressed remorse" for dragging the gardai into a political matter.
What do you think expressing remorse means?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 05, 2023, 09:28:02 AM
I am only following this peripherally, but anyone who thinks that the EOB tweet and the reaction to it, is going to harm the SF vote need to get a new interest rather than politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 05, 2023, 09:30:20 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 05, 2023, 09:28:02 AM
I am only following this peripherally, but anyone who thinks that the EOB tweet and the reaction to it, is going to harm the SF vote need to get a new interest rather than politics.

No it won't harm their vote one bit. But it shows what they think of authority and law and order.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on April 05, 2023, 09:35:47 AM
They need to attract more than "their vote" though.
Hence the Dear Leader's clampdown on EOB.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on April 05, 2023, 09:44:36 AM
Wasn't fishing but nonetheless managed to reel in a couple of fools in double quick time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 05, 2023, 09:56:03 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 05, 2023, 09:44:36 AM
Wasn't fishing but nonetheless managed to reel in a couple of fools in double quick time.
Never would have seen that one coming lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 05, 2023, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 07:53:06 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 07:23:50 PM
He apologised to the AGSI Secretary, presumably on his Party Leaders instructions.
2nd time in recent times EOB has had his knuckles rapped by his Boss.
Again, no he didn't.

Yes, he did. Antoinette Cunningham of AGSI confirmed he "expressed remorse" for dragging the gardai into a political matter.
What do you think expressing remorse means?

Firstly, she made that claim today, so unless Rossfan could see into the future?

Secondly, have you heard him apologise? I haven't. For all we know he said the same privately as he said publicly, which was that he didn't intend his retweet to be an attack on the gardaí, and she perhaps interpreted that as an "expression of remorse" rather than a clarification as he called it himself, and as she too called it in her first comments about their conversation.

In any case, the point remains that you're desperately clinging to the 'dead cat' tactic. I mean, if Philip F**king Ryan is calling it out as such a tactic, then maybe its time you set down the shovel and admitted you're losing this one.

I know I keep saying I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by accepting there's no way you could possibly be so stupid as to have fallen for the distraction tactic, and that's still my view. You are however daft enough to think anyone is falling for it, and more to the point, you're just being actively and deliberately dishonest by pursuing the tactic. And dishonestly is a lot less forgivable than stupidity.

I suppose if O'Broin was only attempting to attack the gardaí, the fallout would have led to anti-gardai sentiment boiling over, and possibly even spilling over onto the streets.....but no, the fallout has led to over €10,000 being raised in support of homelessness charities by the artist selling copies of the piece. It's almost as though people are doing so because they know he debate is really about homelessness and not about the gardaí. In fact, it's almost at though people aren't as stupid as you and your ilk want them to be.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on April 05, 2023, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 05, 2023, 09:44:36 AM
Wasn't fishing but nonetheless managed to reel in a couple of fools in double quick time.

The usual suspects...lol.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on April 05, 2023, 11:19:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0404/1374153-agsi-conference/
The AGSI said evictions are a societal issue, that also affects gardaí, and a large cohort of its members are in rented accommodation because they cannot afford their own homes. General Secretary Antoinette Cunningham said they are "at both sides of this", because as well as being tenants, gardaí have a function to ensure that a breach of the peace does not occur.
"It's a difficult issue, a very sensitive issue and we try and deal with this as sensitively as we can," Ms Cunningham said.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 11:29:52 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 05, 2023, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 07:53:06 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 07:23:50 PM
He apologised to the AGSI Secretary, presumably on his Party Leaders instructions.
2nd time in recent times EOB has had his knuckles rapped by his Boss.
Again, no he didn't.

Yes, he did. Antoinette Cunningham of AGSI confirmed he "expressed remorse" for dragging the gardai into a political matter.
What do you think expressing remorse means?

Firstly, she made that claim today, so unless Rossfan could see into the future?

Secondly, have you heard him apologise? I haven't. For all we know he said the same privately as he said publicly, which was that he didn't intend his retweet to be an attack on the gardaí, and she perhaps interpreted that as an "expression of remorse" rather than a clarification as he called it himself, and as she too called it in her first comments about their conversation.

In any case, the point remains that you're desperately clinging to the 'dead cat' tactic. I mean, if Philip F**king Ryan is calling it out as such a tactic, then maybe its time you set down the shovel and admitted you're losing this one.

I know I keep saying I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by accepting there's no way you could possibly be so stupid as to have fallen for the distraction tactic, and that's still my view. You are however daft enough to think anyone is falling for it, and more to the point, you're just being actively and deliberately dishonest by pursuing the tactic. And dishonestly is a lot less forgivable than stupidity.

I suppose if O'Broin was only attempting to attack the gardaí, the fallout would have led to anti-gardai sentiment boiling over, and possibly even spilling over onto the streets.....but no, the fallout has led to over €10,000 being raised in support of homelessness charities by the artist selling copies of the piece. It's almost as though people are doing so because they know he debate is really about homelessness and not about the gardaí. In fact, it's almost at though people aren't as stupid as you and your ilk want them to be.

Rossfan has nothing to do with whether EOB apologised or not, so I don't know why you brought him into it.

Secondly, of course I haven't heard him apologise, it was on a phone call between himself and Cunningham.
Are you saying Cunningham lied about it?

Thirdly, I'm not clinging to anything.  I simply posted an update that Cunningham said EOB had "expressed remorse" since you made such a song and dance of denying there was any apology.

Fourthly, leave out the personal insults. It's not contributing anything to call someone stupid, daft and dishonest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 05, 2023, 12:21:33 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 11:29:52 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 05, 2023, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 07:53:06 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 03, 2023, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2023, 07:23:50 PM
He apologised to the AGSI Secretary, presumably on his Party Leaders instructions.
2nd time in recent times EOB has had his knuckles rapped by his Boss.
Again, no he didn't.

Yes, he did. Antoinette Cunningham of AGSI confirmed he "expressed remorse" for dragging the gardai into a political matter.
What do you think expressing remorse means?

Firstly, she made that claim today, so unless Rossfan could see into the future?

Secondly, have you heard him apologise? I haven't. For all we know he said the same privately as he said publicly, which was that he didn't intend his retweet to be an attack on the gardaí, and she perhaps interpreted that as an "expression of remorse" rather than a clarification as he called it himself, and as she too called it in her first comments about their conversation.

In any case, the point remains that you're desperately clinging to the 'dead cat' tactic. I mean, if Philip F**king Ryan is calling it out as such a tactic, then maybe its time you set down the shovel and admitted you're losing this one.

I know I keep saying I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by accepting there's no way you could possibly be so stupid as to have fallen for the distraction tactic, and that's still my view. You are however daft enough to think anyone is falling for it, and more to the point, you're just being actively and deliberately dishonest by pursuing the tactic. And dishonestly is a lot less forgivable than stupidity.

I suppose if O'Broin was only attempting to attack the gardaí, the fallout would have led to anti-gardai sentiment boiling over, and possibly even spilling over onto the streets.....but no, the fallout has led to over €10,000 being raised in support of homelessness charities by the artist selling copies of the piece. It's almost as though people are doing so because they know he debate is really about homelessness and not about the gardaí. In fact, it's almost at though people aren't as stupid as you and your ilk want them to be.

Rossfan has nothing to do with whether EOB apologised or not, so I don't know why you brought him into it.

Secondly, of course I haven't heard him apologise, it was on a phone call between himself and Cunningham.
Are you saying Cunningham lied about it?

Thirdly, I'm not clinging to anything.  I simply posted an update that Cunningham said EOB had "expressed remorse" since you made such a song and dance of denying there was any apology.

Fourthly, leave out the personal insults. It's not contributing anything to call someone stupid, daft and dishonest.

To be fair EOB clarified that he felt remorse that the AGS felt dragged into this and that his post was to highlight the issue of homelessness and the government's evictions policy. And unless I'm mistaken that's exactly what Snapchat was saying from the start.
Perhaps the people annoyed by this tweet should direct their ire at those who voted in law that ensured that AGS would unfortunately be involved in some of
these evictions.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on April 05, 2023, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 11:29:52 AM
Rossfan has nothing to do with whether EOB apologised or not, so I don't know why you brought him into it.
Well you direct quoted the conversation which started with him!! It began with me challenging his claim that EO'B apologised. You challenged my point that he didn't apologise. A bit petty waiting a few days for a claim that he did then apologise to emerge before inserting yourself into the conversation.

Quote from: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 11:29:52 AM
Secondly, of course I haven't heard him apologise, it was on a phone call between himself and Cunningham.
Are you saying Cunningham lied about it?
If you read my post you'd see that no, I'm not saying that. What I said (if you want to go back as see for yourself) was that it's possible she merely interpreted his clarification (her and his word) as an expression of regret. It's possible too he did apologise. The point is that while nobody knows the exact words he used to her, he has not made any form of apology in public.

Quote from: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 11:29:52 AM
Thirdly, I'm not clinging to anything.  I simply posted an update that Cunningham said EOB had "expressed remorse" since you made such a song and dance of denying there was any apology.
A song and dance? How did I make a song and dance exactly? I didn't bring up the subject of an apology, and in response to repeated false claims that he had made one, I simply posted two comments - "no he didn't" and "no he hasn't". A song and dance? Really?
And glad to hear you are not going to cling to the dead cat strategy. Are you prepared to admit that EO'B wasn't trying to have a go at the gardaí then? And that the campaign to suggest that was his motivation was nothing more than a very deliberate, cynical and obvious attempt to divert attention from the heat the government was facing over the eviction ban, as even Philip Ryan has conceded?

Quote from: Tubberman on April 05, 2023, 11:29:52 AM
Fourthly, leave out the personal insults. It's not contributing anything to call someone stupid, daft and dishonest.
You may not be actively calling anyone stupid, but you're treating them as though they are every time you to attempt to suggest that the art was making a commentary on the gardaí rather than on evictions, particularly given the fact that this came about in the days following the eviction ban votes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 05, 2023, 04:12:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2023, 05:46:22 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?action=post;topic=15128.9075;last_msg=2191840

On the Tweet of a reworked famine eviction picture by Sinn Féin TD Eoin Ó Broin, Commissioner Harris said that the deputy "meant no offence and it is sensible of us not to take offence but it does highlight what a contentious issue this is in society."
My thoughts exactly. When I first saw the photo it was not from a SF tweet a retweet from the artist. I did not take it as a criticism of the Gardai but as a comment on the government policy being akin to the evictions of years gone by. Predictably though opponents of SF have turned the heat on them as a distraction straight from the Boris playbook.
That said SF need to stop handing FF/FG open goals.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2023, 09:26:00 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65400354 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65400354)

Are Sinn Fein the new stoops?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on April 27, 2023, 09:55:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 09:26:00 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65400354 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65400354)

Are Sinn Fein the new stoops?

The battle to win over the middle ground in an UI referendum is on, SF seem to be getting that, hope their die-hards also get that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 27, 2023, 09:57:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2023, 09:55:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 09:26:00 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65400354 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65400354)

Are Sinn Fein the new stoops?

The battle to win over the middle ground in an UI referendum is on, SF seem to be getting that, hope their die-hards also get that.
as much as I don't like seeing it, I can understand the need. Times have changed. Fair play to Michelle O'Neill.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2023, 10:01:50 AM
It has to be done tbh plus McGuinness paved the way there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 04, 2023, 08:45:42 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65803294  (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65803294)

Sinn Féin and Nationalism have alot of friends in Washington. Will help in the long run...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Jim Bob on June 06, 2023, 09:40:31 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 27, 2023, 09:57:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2023, 09:55:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 09:26:00 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65400354 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65400354)

Are Sinn Fein the new stoops?

The battle to win over the middle ground in an UI referendum is on, SF seem to be getting that, hope their die-hards also get that.
as much as I don't like seeing it, I can understand the need. Times have changed. Fair play to Michelle O'Neill.

Slow learners are Sinn Fein
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 07, 2023, 09:33:50 AM
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1666065635195990017?s=20 (https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1666065635195990017?s=20)

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/oneill-says-john-finucane-to-attend-south-armagh-commemoration/969055908.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/oneill-says-john-finucane-to-attend-south-armagh-commemoration/969055908.html)

https://www.newstalk.com/news/wholly-inappropriate-for-irish-people-to-attend-ric-commemoration-in-the-uk-sinn-fein-1248570 (https://www.newstalk.com/news/wholly-inappropriate-for-irish-people-to-attend-ric-commemoration-in-the-uk-sinn-fein-1248570)

Sinn Féin TD John Brady said it was "wholly inappropriate" for the Irish Government to attempt to commemorate the RIC, "and by extension the Black and Tans."

"I think it was absolutely unbelievable that that notion ever entered anyone's head here within the Irish Government," he said.

What we have seen here in this country was a brutal occupying force that set about trying to destroy the mandate that had been given. We had brutal atrocities carried out by the Black and Tans and certainly I don't think it is appropriate that butchers such as that should be commemorated here within this country in any way shape or form."

Asked about the Irish people that served in the RIC over its 86-yer history, he noted that many of them "saw exactly what was going on" during the War of Independence and withdrew their services.

"Certainly, I don't think it is appropriate for any Irish people to commemorate people who carried out such terrible atrocities such as those carried out by the Black and Tans."

Everyone has a right to remember their dead.... as long as Sinn Fein approves of course.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: general_lee on June 07, 2023, 10:14:06 AM
Do the RIC/Tans not fall under the poppy umbrella of remembering the British army's deeds in Ireland? As a stoop you'd be much more versed in this than I.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 07, 2023, 10:20:55 AM
Quote from: general_lee on June 07, 2023, 10:14:06 AM
Do the RIC/Tans not fall under the poppy umbrella of remembering the British army's deeds in Ireland? As a stoop you'd be much more versed in this than I.

Given they both seemed to kill lots of Irish people it is difficult to tell the difference between the two organisations I grant you that.
Are Sinn Fein not the new stoops? Tea with the King and all that. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on June 07, 2023, 05:34:48 PM
Bit silly for unionists to ask nationalists and republicans to stop attending these events.  Playing to the crowd as usual.

Sad that some on here will get sucked into the narrative.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 08, 2023, 11:51:27 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 07, 2023, 05:34:48 PM
Bit silly for unionists to ask nationalists and republicans to stop attending these events.  Playing to the crowd as usual.

Sad that some on here will get sucked into the narrative.

That narrative is "Unionism was as clean as the driven snow and those evil, murderous, Nationalists terrorised us for no reason at all"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on June 08, 2023, 11:57:14 AM
Until there is some mechanism to deal with the past in an open and transparent way these events are going to cause controversy.

The fact is at the moment they are being used by one side to change the current narrative, but in general they will keep coming about time and time again.

No one is innocent in this, not republicans, not loyalists, not the British or Irish governments. So some sort framework needs to be developed to allow people to recognise 'their' past whilst not letting it derail the future for everyone.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on June 08, 2023, 01:18:37 PM
Latest in a long list of headlines "Unionist Fury...About Something Or Other"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 08, 2023, 11:25:27 PM
https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/1666772125578072066 (https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/1666772125578072066)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 09, 2023, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 07, 2023, 05:34:48 PM
Bit silly for unionists to ask nationalists and republicans to stop attending these events.  Playing to the crowd as usual.

Sad that some on here will get sucked into the narrative.

I'm just pointing out that SF were highly critical of the RIC commemoration yet they believe everyone should be allowed to remember their dead. First Minister for all should be more than a slogan.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 11:59:51 AM
There was a great series on BBC (probably still on, but watched all on Iplayer) Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland.

Just another view from those that were unlucky enough to be either dragged in or exploited or whole heartedly believed in what they were doing

For me a truth commission and amnesty for those that participate in it will at least close some doors on the past and allow for the vast majority to move on, taking away the resentment or that justice wasn't carried out gets past on down through the family through generations

For those that participated it takes balls, as they have been affected first hand, most people post ceasefire have not but it hasn't stopped the hate, I'd actually say, based on what you see on social media that it's actually worse than the period of the troubles, the hate that is.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 09, 2023, 12:07:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 11:59:51 AM
There was a great series on BBC (probably still on, but watched all on Iplayer) Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland.

Just another view from those that were unlucky enough to be either dragged in or exploited or whole heartedly believed in what they were doing

For me a truth commission and amnesty for those that participate in it will at least close some doors on the past and allow for the vast majority to move on, taking away the resentment or that justice wasn't carried out gets past on down through the family through generations

For those that participated it takes balls, as they have been affected first hand, most people post ceasefire have not but it hasn't stopped the hate, I'd actually say, based on what you see on social media that it's actually worse than the period of the troubles, the hate that is.

Brilliant show. And very moving.
There will never be a truth commission. Do you think the British government is going to tell the truth? Would the IRA? Would the UDA/ UVF? The Unionist politicians? Not a chance.
Victims won't accept an amnesty. So that's out the window before you even start.
Time will move on. Relatives of the Victims and those who a carried out the murders will die. Nobody will be left to carry the fight for truth and justice. Another 15 - 20 years and it will all be a ghost story. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffrongael on June 09, 2023, 12:11:13 PM
It was really good because it wasn't just the usual talking heads from both sides, I found the UDA fella interesting to see how far he had come to realise how futile it all was
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on June 09, 2023, 12:35:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 11:59:51 AM
There was a great series on BBC (probably still on, but watched all on Iplayer) Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland.

For those of you in the US, this is available to stream for free on the PBS app. It is the first Northern Ireland troubles history that my kids have watched, it opened their eyes to some of what Daddy grew up with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rois on June 09, 2023, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 09, 2023, 12:11:13 PM
It was really good because it wasn't just the usual talking heads from both sides, I found the UDA fella interesting to see how far he had come to realise how futile it all was
Only watched Episode 2 last night, but he had us in stitches, saying how he wouldn't give his 17 year old granddaughter a f*ckin milkshake, never mind a gun. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 11, 2023, 07:48:09 PM
Finucane can't complain about loyalist violence anymore.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 11, 2023, 08:54:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 11, 2023, 07:48:09 PM
Finucane can't complain about loyalist violence anymore.

Why?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 11, 2023, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 11, 2023, 08:54:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 11, 2023, 07:48:09 PM
Finucane can't complain about loyalist violence anymore.

Why?

Because he supports Republican violence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 11, 2023, 09:27:37 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 11, 2023, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 11, 2023, 08:54:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 11, 2023, 07:48:09 PM
Finucane can't complain about loyalist violence anymore.

Why?

Because he supports Republican violence.

He spoke at an Easter Commemoration a few months back. Why was he ok to complain about loyalist violence up until today?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 11, 2023, 09:53:24 PM
No
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 11, 2023, 10:03:00 PM
Come on now Trailer. Try adulting.

Why was he ok to complain about loyalist violence up until today? What changed today?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on June 11, 2023, 10:35:16 PM
I think once he supports republican violence he cannot condemn loyalist violence. The time line is irrelevant... unless you're suggesting they're different?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on June 11, 2023, 10:43:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 11, 2023, 10:35:16 PM
I think once he supports republican violence he cannot condemn loyalist violence. The time line is irrelevant... unless you're suggesting they're different?

You said he can't complain about loyalist violence "anymore". Your use of the word "anymore" suggests that the timeline is important as it implies that something changed, and presumably today. So what changed today? Why was he ok to complain about loyalist violence up until now?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 12, 2023, 07:32:11 AM
I think it needs pointed out that attending a memorial does not mean you support the actions of that person/group of people whilst they were alive.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on June 12, 2023, 11:00:13 AM
Unionism and the BBC struggling in accepting that to a lot of nationalists that the RUC/UDR/BA were not honest brokers in this conflict and consider the November commemorations for these organisations as a false equivalence to what John Finucane attended yesterday.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2023, 11:59:53 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 12, 2023, 11:00:13 AM
Unionism and the BBC struggling in accepting that to a lot of nationalists that the RUC/UDR/BA were not honest brokers in this conflict and consider the November commemorations for these organisations as a false equivalence to what John Finucane attended yesterday.

They are struggling to find something to divide the place and any opportunity will be highlighted and used.. Whether it was John or MoN or anyone it would still have created a stir

Said before this place is getting worse and while we aint killing each other its not a good place to be
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 12, 2023, 03:28:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 11, 2023, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 11, 2023, 08:54:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 11, 2023, 07:48:09 PM
Finucane can't complain about loyalist violence anymore.

Why?

Because he supports Republican violence.
That is libel. I have never heard John Finucane support Republican violence.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on June 12, 2023, 06:41:10 PM
It's not libel, it's just trailer trash. Ignore the gobshíte.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on June 12, 2023, 07:09:18 PM
Any SFrs attend a 50th anniversary commemoration in Coleraine today?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: markl121 on June 12, 2023, 07:48:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 12, 2023, 07:09:18 PM
Any SFrs attend a 50th anniversary commemoration in Coleraine today?
The Archibald sisters
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 09, 2023, 09:13:09 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/)

This is very worrying.

Personally I feel the Irish people in the 26 will regret it if they get into power. I don't think they are a totally democratic party, nor are they particularly concerned about democracy in general.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AM
They'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 09, 2023, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?
Especially since the current parties aren't above using court proceedings themselves with the meedja!!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?
You could fire a suit on a jack donkey and a scarecrow and they'd be better than the FFG rats who've been in for years
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on November 09, 2023, 11:38:31 AM
It's beginning to look like SF policy to sue for defamation and TBH it might just soften the cough of a lot of the media they get in the south in particular where the lunatic fringe are given platforms to attack SF for all and sundry with little or no facts to back them up.

Suing a paper is one thing, but suing the actual reporter is another.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 09, 2023, 11:41:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?
You could fire a suit on a jack donkey and a scarecrow and they'd be better than the FFG rats who've been in for years

Ireland has a €10b surplus. But yeah FFG rats
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2023, 11:44:07 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?

It is entirely a false narrative that there has been no progress over countless years. These peoples' grand uncles had to go London and labour on building sites and live in a bedsit. Now they complain that the government does not import enough Moldavians to build them a cheap house, no question of becoming builders themselves, of course.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 11:41:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?
You could fire a suit on a jack donkey and a scarecrow and they'd be better than the FFG rats who've been in for years

Ireland has a €10b surplus. But yeah FFG rats
Don't worry about the homeless on the streets, the state of the healthcare system or the fact that its practically impossible to buy or rent a house within 2 hours of Dublin. Or the fact that our best and brightest young people are getting out of the hell out dodge to Australia or Canada as soon as they can...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:11:10 PM
Who exactly is "homeless on the streets"

There are 13,000 (13,000 too many) being provided with emergency accomodation at the taxpayers' expense.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on November 09, 2023, 12:25:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2023, 11:44:07 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?

It is entirely a false narrative that there has been no progress over countless years. These peoples' grand uncles had to go London and labour on building sites and live in a bedsit. Now they complain that the government does not import enough Moldavians to build them a cheap house, no question of becoming builders themselves, of course.

I don't think anyone expects a cheap house Armaghniac. They just don't wish to spend 80%+ of their earnings on the basic human need that is shelter.

FF/FG have created a ticking time bomb for housing in Ireland.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 01:07:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:11:10 PMWho exactly is "homeless on the streets"

There are 13,000 (13,000 too many) being provided with emergency accomodation at the taxpayers' expense.



Can't say I know too many of them but take a dander up any street in Dublin.

Housing is a joke in the south. And it's spilling into border towns as well. Newry rental prices have gone absolutely wild.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 09, 2023, 01:44:16 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2023, 11:38:31 AMIt's beginning to look like SF policy to sue for defamation and TBH it might just soften the cough of a lot of the media they get in the south in particular where the lunatic fringe are given platforms to attack SF for all and sundry with little or no facts to back them up.

Suing a paper is one thing, but suing the actual reporter is another.

If he was defamed, and a court will decide surely he is entitled to his good name? Reporters have a duty to be truthful. As an IT reader they are very anti SF in their narrative.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on November 09, 2023, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 01:07:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:11:10 PMWho exactly is "homeless on the streets"

There are 13,000 (13,000 too many) being provided with emergency accomodation at the taxpayers' expense.



Can't say I know too many of them but take a dander up any street in Dublin.

Housing is a joke in the south. And it's spilling into border towns as well. Newry rental prices have gone absolutely wild.

how much would be talking now for renting a typical 3 bed semi in Newry?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 09, 2023, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 11:41:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?
You could fire a suit on a jack donkey and a scarecrow and they'd be better than the FFG rats who've been in for years

Ireland has a €10b surplus. But yeah FFG rats
Don't worry about the homeless on the streets, the state of the healthcare system or the fact that its practically impossible to buy or rent a house within 2 hours of Dublin. Or the fact that our best and brightest young people are getting out of the hell out dodge to Australia or Canada as soon as they can...

Huge housing problems in Vancouver, Toronto, Sydney, Perth, Melbourne. Other cities facing the same issues.
Brightness and best are not getting the hell out of dodge no matter what you might think. Yes many young people travel for a few years after they have finished their education. Most return.
Healthcare in the North is worse than the South and SF have been the largest nationalist party for over 10 years!

It will be a huge vote for SF at the next election. Regrettably. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 02:45:27 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 09, 2023, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 01:07:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:11:10 PMWho exactly is "homeless on the streets"

There are 13,000 (13,000 too many) being provided with emergency accomodation at the taxpayers' expense.



Can't say I know too many of them but take a dander up any street in Dublin.

Housing is a joke in the south. And it's spilling into border towns as well. Newry rental prices have gone absolutely wild.

how much would be talking now for renting a typical 3 bed semi in Newry?
£1000 a month wouldnt look at it in a lot of cases. Anything that comes up has huge amounts of interest and is nigh on impossible to get
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on November 09, 2023, 02:53:04 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 02:45:27 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 09, 2023, 01:49:27 PMhow much would be talking now for renting a typical 3 bed semi in Newry?
£1000 a month wouldnt look at it in a lot of cases. Anything that comes up has huge amounts of interest and is nigh on impossible to get

That's dear alright.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 03:18:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 11:41:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?
You could fire a suit on a jack donkey and a scarecrow and they'd be better than the FFG rats who've been in for years

Ireland has a €10b surplus. But yeah FFG rats
Don't worry about the homeless on the streets, the state of the healthcare system or the fact that its practically impossible to buy or rent a house within 2 hours of Dublin. Or the fact that our best and brightest young people are getting out of the hell out dodge to Australia or Canada as soon as they can...

Huge housing problems in Vancouver, Toronto, Sydney, Perth, Melbourne. Other cities facing the same issues.
Brightness and best are not getting the hell out of dodge no matter what you might think. Yes many young people travel for a few years after they have finished their education. Most return.
Healthcare in the North is worse than the South and SF have been the largest nationalist party for over 10 years!

It will be a huge vote for SF at the next election. Regrettably. 
Take a look at any of them Facebook pages.  Literally thousands of young people going.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 09, 2023, 03:33:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 03:18:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 11:41:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?
You could fire a suit on a jack donkey and a scarecrow and they'd be better than the FFG rats who've been in for years

Ireland has a €10b surplus. But yeah FFG rats
Don't worry about the homeless on the streets, the state of the healthcare system or the fact that its practically impossible to buy or rent a house within 2 hours of Dublin. Or the fact that our best and brightest young people are getting out of the hell out dodge to Australia or Canada as soon as they can...

Huge housing problems in Vancouver, Toronto, Sydney, Perth, Melbourne. Other cities facing the same issues.
Brightness and best are not getting the hell out of dodge no matter what you might think. Yes many young people travel for a few years after they have finished their education. Most return.
Healthcare in the North is worse than the South and SF have been the largest nationalist party for over 10 years!

It will be a huge vote for SF at the next election. Regrettably. 
Take a look at any of them Facebook pages.  Literally thousands of young people going.

Ack dunno, plenty go, but loads return. No facebook groups for them. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2023, 03:46:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 03:33:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 03:18:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 11:41:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 09, 2023, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThey'll only get into Government in the 26 as part of a Coalition.
The other Party(ies) can pull the plug if SF act the bolx.

From a young voter's perspective how could they act the bolx more than what has already been there for countless years?
You could fire a suit on a jack donkey and a scarecrow and they'd be better than the FFG rats who've been in for years

Ireland has a €10b surplus. But yeah FFG rats
Don't worry about the homeless on the streets, the state of the healthcare system or the fact that its practically impossible to buy or rent a house within 2 hours of Dublin. Or the fact that our best and brightest young people are getting out of the hell out dodge to Australia or Canada as soon as they can...

Huge housing problems in Vancouver, Toronto, Sydney, Perth, Melbourne. Other cities facing the same issues.
Brightness and best are not getting the hell out of dodge no matter what you might think. Yes many young people travel for a few years after they have finished their education. Most return.
Healthcare in the North is worse than the South and SF have been the largest nationalist party for over 10 years!

It will be a huge vote for SF at the next election. Regrettably. 
Take a look at any of them Facebook pages.  Literally thousands of young people going.

Ack dunno, plenty go, but loads return. No facebook groups for them. 

The CSO show that in the last 2 years, the number of Irish citizens coming to Ireland more or less balanced the number going out. A few do stay away, of course, what do you expect from a small country? But not anywhere near as many as some would have you believe and not because of hardship but because of foreign spouses and the like.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 05:14:24 PM
Can only speak from small sample size but any young ones I know that have went say they're going because "theres f**k all here" and most have no plans to return for the foreseeable. And an awful lot are teachers, nurses and tradesmen.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 06:49:45 PM
"Fk all here"
Severe shortages of teachers, nurses and tradesmen for a start.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 09, 2023, 07:20:16 PM
Lack of houses in the north alao. It'll go like the south, people will be living with their parents etc.

Not many houses being built and only a few to rent.

Check out any estate agents.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 08:35:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 06:49:45 PM"Fk all here"
Severe shortages of teachers, nurses and tradesmen for a start.
Because they are all emigrating... because there is f**k all here....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 10, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 09:13:09 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/)

This is very worrying.


Why?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 08:58:25 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/1110/1415914-sinn-fein-ard-fheis/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:17:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 10, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 09:13:09 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/)

This is very worrying.


Why?

If you don't want to be sued for defamation stop defaming people. Good enough treatment for these rags of newsapers that are in the pockets of a few people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 11, 2023, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:17:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 10, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 09:13:09 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/)

This is very worrying.


Why?

If you don't want to be sued for defamation stop defaming people. Good enough treatment for these rags of newsapers that are in the pockets of a few people.

Very true.

It's quite simple. Don't defame people by writing untruths.

The Indo and journalists etc. might start getting the message now.

Nip these stories in the bud over the next while pre-election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 11, 2023, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 11, 2023, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:17:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 10, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 09:13:09 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/)

This is very worrying.


Why?

If you don't want to be sued for defamation stop defaming people. Good enough treatment for these rags of newsapers that are in the pockets of a few people.

Very true.

It's quite simple. Don't defame people by writing untruths.

The Indo and journalists etc. might start getting the message now.

Nip these stories in the bud over the next while pre-election.
Proper order.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on November 11, 2023, 02:40:33 PM
Have read the article and for the life of me can't see where the SF/former FF was defamed. Can anyone point it out? It's Trumpy and he won't win.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Deerstalker on November 11, 2023, 02:52:04 PM
https://www.thejournal.ie/mary-lou-mcdonald-legal-actions-sinn-fein-6220380-Nov2023/

Press Ombudsman Susan McKay has said politicians should question whether suing rather than making a complaint through the ombudsman's office is in the public interest.

"People have the right to use the mechanisms available to them to vindicate their name," McDonald said this morning.

It was put to her by The Journal that Sinn Fein politicians have not used the Press Council mechanisms in recent years, which is designed to use conciliation to avoid the legal route, to which she replied: "Yeah, well, that's up to each individual to make their own call."

When asked if there is an active policy within her party to pursue to the Press Council mechanism before going down the legal route, McDonald said there is no such policy.

The Journal asked if she would support such a policy within her party to encourage politicians in Sinn Féin to use the Press Council mechanism, McDonald said:

"People will be aware when they have a complaint or an issue of all of the options of available to them. People generally take advice on it."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2023, 05:38:41 PM
Can't see the issue. If he was defamed he'll win. If not, he'll lose. If he believes he was defamed, he's every right to take action. Can't see what the problem is. Won't cry any tears over protecting the press.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 19, 2023, 06:15:00 PM
Mary Lou sending condolences to Ben Dunne's family is the sort of shithousery you'd get on this board. Absolute top level effort from Mary Lou.

I cannot wait for a SF government in the south. The nonsense will be off the charts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 19, 2023, 09:33:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 10, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 09:13:09 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/)

This is very worrying.


Why?

In your own time Trailer....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 19, 2023, 09:48:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2023, 06:15:00 PMMary Lou sending condolences to Ben Dunne's family is the sort of shithousery you'd get on this board. Absolute top level effort from Mary Lou.

I cannot wait for a SF government in the south. The nonsense will be off the charts.

I think Ben moved on, maybe you should too...


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ira-victim-backs-sinn-fein-qtx3zjtvl8g

He also appeared on newstalk in Dec 2010 supporting Sinn Fein going into government
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on November 19, 2023, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 19, 2023, 09:48:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2023, 06:15:00 PMMary Lou sending condolences to Ben Dunne's family is the sort of shithousery you'd get on this board. Absolute top level effort from Mary Lou.

I cannot wait for a SF government in the south. The nonsense will be off the charts.

I think Ben moved on, maybe you should too...


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ira-victim-backs-sinn-fein-qtx3zjtvl8g

He also appeared on newstalk in Dec 2010 supporting Sinn Fein going into government

Yes, forget all the awkward stuff like kidnappings and murders.  It's much easier to shout about housing and health from opposition benches.
They'll probably get their chance soon enough - fine gael will be 13 years in power which is enough, but when in power, SF are either going to have to disappoint a lot of their core vote or alienate the rest of the electorate.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on November 20, 2023, 09:30:41 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 19, 2023, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 19, 2023, 09:48:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2023, 06:15:00 PMMary Lou sending condolences to Ben Dunne's family is the sort of shithousery you'd get on this board. Absolute top level effort from Mary Lou.

I cannot wait for a SF government in the south. The nonsense will be off the charts.


I think Ben moved on, maybe you should too...


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ira-victim-backs-sinn-fein-qtx3zjtvl8g

He also appeared on newstalk in Dec 2010 supporting Sinn Fein going into government

Yes, forget all the awkward stuff like kidnappings and murders.  It's much easier to shout about housing and health from opposition benches.
They'll probably get their chance soon enough - fine gael will be 13 years in power which is enough, but when in power, SF are either going to have to disappoint a lot of their core vote or alienate the rest of the electorate.

There seems to have been plenty forgotten / forgiven from the early 20th century....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 09:37:34 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 19, 2023, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 19, 2023, 09:48:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2023, 06:15:00 PMMary Lou sending condolences to Ben Dunne's family is the sort of shithousery you'd get on this board. Absolute top level effort from Mary Lou.

I cannot wait for a SF government in the south. The nonsense will be off the charts.

I think Ben moved on, maybe you should too...


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ira-victim-backs-sinn-fein-qtx3zjtvl8g

He also appeared on newstalk in Dec 2010 supporting Sinn Fein going into government

Yes, forget all the awkward stuff like kidnappings and murders.  It's much easier to shout about housing and health from opposition benches.
They'll probably get their chance soon enough - fine gael will be 13 years in power which is enough, but when in power, SF are either going to have to disappoint a lot of their core vote or alienate the rest of the electorate.

Well FF and FG have forgotten about all the kidnaps and murders they did in the 1920s so I suppose its only fair SF are allowed to move on or maybe you have a definition on how long it should take. I mean Ben Dunne is dead and his kidnap was 40 years ago. Mary Lou was a toddler when it happened. Ben himself had got to a point of endorsing SF for government. But for you does it need another 5 yrs, 10 yrs? How long?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thewobbler on November 20, 2023, 09:47:17 AM
I doubt I'll ever reach a point where I'd vote Sinn Fein. I just prefer a middle ground government.

But yesterday's Twitter pile-on in reaction to Mary Lou was excruciating to read. Ireland's most pious, intolerant, inconsistent and revolting mouthpieces were out in force. Those people actually deserve a term or two under Sinn Fein. It might just wake them up a little.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 20, 2023, 04:23:06 PM

For Sinn Féin, war crimes exist only in the eye of the beholder
Party's hypocrisy on show as it lauds IRA men who slaughtered civilians while condemning suffering in Gaza and failing to exercise influence with Hamas

Mary Lou McDonald highlighted the impact on premature babies in incubators. Photo: AP

Sam McBride

Is deliberately killing civilians a war crime? Not necessarily, Sinn Féin seems to think. If it happened on this island between 1968 and 1998, and if it was done by the Provisional IRA, then those killers receive the highest respect. If it's happening now in Gaza, it's an act of unspeakable barbarity and no effort should be spared in prosecuting those responsible.
No political party is wholly consistent. No nation is wholly consistent. None of us as individuals are wholly consistent. But the hypocrisy involved in Sinn Féin's pronouncements about the war in Gaza over recent weeks has been astronomical.

The whole concept of war crimes, of the Geneva Conventions and of international courts to enforce those rules rests on the concept that certain actions are always crimes — regardless of whether the war is just or whether we love or hate the side in question. On that basis, both Bloody Sunday and Bloody Friday were war crimes — but that's not how Sinn Féin views it.

At the start of this month, republicans gathered at Belfast's Milltown Cemetery. Sean Kelly, one of the two men who planted the Shankill Bomb and who regularly canvasses for Sinn Féin, was present with other republicans as they unveiled a new plaque to the other bomber, Thomas Begley, who died in his own attack in 1993. The plaque states: "Proudly remembered by his comrades and friends."


In military terms, what Begley and Kelly did that day involved a justification identical to that used by Israel in striking targets in Gaza. The IRA was targeting a meeting of the UDA above the shop where the bomb was placed. There was clearly a risk that civilians would die, but the IRA believed that was acceptable because of the significance of the target. This is precisely the legal defence put forward by Israel which Sinn Féin denounces.�

Gerry Adams, who carried Begley's coffin, now claims to be "shocked and distressed by the appalling events in the Middle East", saying that "the attack by Hamas fighters which targeted civilians cannot be defended". This is the same Adams who when challenged about Jean McConville's abduction, murder and the hiding of her body for decades — leaving 10 tiny children orphaned — said it was "what happens in war".

Sinn Féin TDs queued up to express their horror at the suffering in Gaza. Chris Andrews told the Dáil: "The slaughter of civilians, whether they be Palestinian or Israeli, is unforgivable and a war crime." Yet Sinn Féin still lauds IRA men who slaughtered civilians and would be livid if any of its members faced war crimes charges.

Last week a Sinn Féin motion in the Dáil said it "condemns and deplores...the targeting of civilian infrastructure". Yet one of the IRA's most regular targets was civilian infrastructure, which it deliberately destroyed with car bombs or incendiary devices.

The party now calls for hostages to be released — yet the IRA took hostages, some of whom it murdered. In 1983 the IRA kidnapped businessman Don Tidey in front of his 13-year-old daughter. Adams refused to condemn the crime. As Private Patrick Kelly and trainee garda Gary Sheehan searched for the businessman in Leitrim, the IRA opened fire without warning and threw a grenade, killing both men.

Matt Carthy last week referred to "the basic rules of humanity", talked about "atrocities", and said he was appalled Palestinian fishing boats had been set on fire. Yet republicans remain proud of killing Lord Mountbatten on a fishing boat, even though two boys were slaughtered in the process.

Party colleague Paul Donnelly was forthright in condemning Hamas's massacre of Israelis, saying: "Those who carried out any attacks on innocent civilians should be held accountable." Yet when members of Sinn Féin or the IRA have been arrested by police investigating their alleged involvement in serious crimes, Sinn Féin has furiously protested.

Referring to how Israel's attack on what it says were Hamas fighters under Al-Shifa hospital had led to deaths in the hospital, Mary Lou McDonald highlighted the impact on premature babies in incubators.

Yet in 1996 the then DUP Belfast councillor Nigel Dodds and his wife Diane were visiting their son Andrew, who had spina bifida and was gravely ill at the time (he would die two years later just before his ninth birthday) when two IRA gunmen approached the ward in The Royal Belfast Hospital for Sick Children. After being challenged by Dodds's bodyguard, they opened fire. One bullet hit an empty incubator. As recently as 2019, Sinn Féin's John Finucane refused to condemn the attack.

Some in Sinn Féin seem genuinely oblivious to these contradictions. Mairéad Farrell told TDs that "war crimes are war crimes, no matter the perpetrator", and denounced the "hypocrisy" of European countries who "call out war crimes only when it suits their own agenda... the lives of all must be deemed equal, and the double standards must end".�

This is not to suggest that many people in Sinn Féin are anything other than genuinely appalled at the scale of civilian deaths in Gaza. But the indulgence in rhetoric obscures the party's unwillingness to use all the power at its disposal to influence what's happening.

Sinn Féin has no influence whatsoever with Israel. But it does have influence with Hamas and in Washington's corridors of the powerful. The party skilfully used its US friends to put pressure on the British government over Brexit. If Sinn Féin believes as strongly about what is happening in Gaza as its words imply, why is it not pushing key Americans who could try to turn off the supply of US armaments raining down on Gaza?

The suspicion is Sinn Féin doesn't want to offend its US friends. Mary Lou McDonald wants to be in the White House on St Patrick's Day having her photo taken with Joe Biden, and keep in with the party's wealthy US backers.

Not so long ago, Sinn Féin was comfortable in the presence of senior Hamas figures. Now it is publicly condemning things happening in Gaza which if they'd happened years ago on this island it would now be cheering. What is a war crime? For Sinn Féin, it's in the eye of the beholder.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 05:19:44 PM
Sorry, stopped at Sam McBride. I genuinely never thought I'd see anyone use anything he wrote on GAA board
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 06:39:10 PM
I bet you did!

Any thing incorrect in what he wrote?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 20, 2023, 06:45:25 PM
Too many truths for some people
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 07:39:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 19, 2023, 09:33:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 10, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 09:13:09 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/)

This is very worrying.


Why?

In your own time Trailer....

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZ2Jzc3M1djFkaWhsYzh6OWZ2ZTFnNGx0cHl4YXJvdG1kMmlyb2Y0OCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/tXL4FHPSnVJ0A/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 06:39:10 PMI bet you did!

Any thing incorrect in what he wrote?

So you reckon Sinn Féin have influence over Hamas? I'll tell you what, even the most craven unionist politicians haven't dared sound as daft as to try to blame SF for the Gaza situation, but Sam has really reached for the stars with that little gem.

Anyway, I asslume since we're into drawing parallels between Gaza and what happened here four or five decades ago, why not go back just a few decades further: I assume you'l have no qualms about conceeding that the Old IRA carried out any amount of war crimes too? You must have nothing but unequivocal disdain for them, just as you have for the PIRA?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 08:17:18 PM
Whatabout.....
You only picked 1 item to quibble with in McBride's piece I see😉
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 20, 2023, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 08:17:18 PMWhatabout.....
You only picked 1 item to quibble with in McBride's piece I see😉

he answered your exact question...you didn't ask for a list. you asked for anything, he provided an example.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 09:14:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 06:39:10 PMI bet you did!

Any thing incorrect in what he wrote?

If you read one of his articles you've read them all. f**k sake the newsletter doesn't even make good toilet roll.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 20, 2023, 09:21:11 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 09:14:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 06:39:10 PMI bet you did!

Any thing incorrect in what he wrote?

If you read one of his articles you've read them all. f**k sake the newsletter doesn't even make good toilet roll.

Fair play. You know your stuff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: red hander on November 20, 2023, 09:25:24 PM
If you're referencing certain people carrying coffins, then you have lost the argument. Robinson carried UDA mass murderer McMichael's and that sleekit wee cnut McCrea officiated at the funerals for the two UDR bastards involved in the Miami massacre.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 09:35:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 20, 2023, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 08:17:18 PMWhatabout.....
You only picked 1 item to quibble with in McBride's piece I see😉

he answered your exact question...you didn't ask for a list. you asked for anything, he provided an example.

Which is one more than the number of questions he's answered of mine in return., I can't help but notice.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 09:37:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 08:17:18 PMWhatabout.....
You only picked 1 item to quibble with in McBride's piece I see😉

Shouting "whataboutery" is the cowards way of refusing to confront his own hypocricy. If it's OK to draw a comparison between the gaza situation now and the one here 4 or 5 decades ago, then it's surely fair to go back another handful of decades and do the same thing. Straight forward question: I assume you'll have no qualms about conceeding that the Old IRA carried out any amount of war crimes too? You must have nothing but unequivocal disdain for them, just as you have for the PIRA?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 09:40:29 PM
Of course, if we want more contemporary examples of links between Irish politicians and war crimes in Gaza, I could post up last weeks picture of Micheal Martin dutifully posing in an IDF vest for an Israeli Propeganda piece?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on November 20, 2023, 09:41:33 PM
FFS, Michelle offers good luck to the six county soccer team and they go ahead and win 2-0.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 09:54:39 PM
Any time some disgraceful Provo actions are raised along comes a supporter (or official spokesman on GAAboard) "What about the 1920s"?

I don't know what "War crimes" were carried out by the "Old IRA*".
The Free State may have at Ballyseedy and BenBulben.

*Term used for IRA up to the Treaty.

West Cork possibly and Frank Aiken killed a Protestant family in South Down or Armagh.

I wasn't a member of any of the IRAs or Free State forces from 1919 to 1923.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 20, 2023, 10:15:03 PM
Palestinians should move on. Whatever has been done to them is in the past. Nobody cares.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 10:17:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 09:54:39 PMAny time some disgraceful Provo actions are raised along comes a supporter (or official spokesman on GAAboard) "What about the 1920s"?
Which is precisely how it should be, lest hypocrites like yourself go unchallenged.

Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 09:54:39 PMI don't know what "War crimes" were carried out by the "Old IRA*".
The Free State may have at Ballyseedy and BenBulben.

*Term used for IRA up to the Treaty.

West Cork possibly and Frank Aiken killed a Protestant family in South Down or Armagh.

I wasn't a member of any of the IRAs or Free State forces from 1919 to 1923.

So are you saying the Old IRA didn't carry out many war crimes? Or that you're just ill-informed? Would you hold them in disdain, given that, for instance, they disappeared over 10 times the number the PIRA did (and did so in about a tenth of the time period)?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 10:53:11 PM
Informers got short shrift.
Provos chief spy catcher was the Brits chief spy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 11:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2023, 10:53:11 PMInformers got short shrift.
Provos chief spy catcher was the Brits chief spy.

OK that leads me to two questions:

1. Can I take that reply to mean you're you OK with an armed group disppearing victims as long as those victims were informers?
2. Have you seriously been under the impression that the Old IRA only disappeared informers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 21, 2023, 08:28:40 AM
Leaving aside what is and isn't whataboutery, it is a fair point he makes in that Sean Kelly did deliberately target civilians or at least accept civilian and child deaths therefore this does put him squarely in the Israeli and (Hamas as well) space of how they approach war.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 21, 2023, 08:55:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 07:39:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 19, 2023, 09:33:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 10, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 09:13:09 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/11/07/sinn-fein-td-chris-andrews-sues-the-irish-times/)

This is very worrying.


Why?

In your own time Trailer....

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZ2Jzc3M1djFkaWhsYzh6OWZ2ZTFnNGx0cHl4YXJvdG1kMmlyb2Y0OCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/tXL4FHPSnVJ0A/giphy.gif)

Whats the matter Trailer? Did Michael or Leo not explain to you why it's so worrying? Bad form to give you a soundbite to repeat without first explaining it to you.
(https://media.tenor.com/rec5dlPBK2cAAAAd/mr-bean-waiting.gif)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:05:39 PM
Not singling out SF, but the irony of politicians coming out today one after another to express their concern at bank closures in small towns. Whatever the rights and wrongs, they have lost the right to criticise when all they do is sit around getting paid to do nothing apart from bicker.  A press release is a good days work in their wee world.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:05:39 PMNot singling out SF, but the irony of politicians coming out today one after another to express their concern at bank closures in small towns. Whatever the rights and wrongs, they have lost the right to criticise when all they do is sit around getting paid to do nothing apart from bicker.  A press release is a good days work in their wee world.
That's due to one party and their drug dealing bosses. Not SF or SDLP or Alliance or any other party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:05:39 PMNot singling out SF, but the irony of politicians coming out today one after another to express their concern at bank closures in small towns. Whatever the rights and wrongs, they have lost the right to criticise when all they do is sit around getting paid to do nothing apart from bicker.  A press release is a good days work in their wee world.
That's due to one party and their drug dealing bosses. Not SF or SDLP or Alliance or any other party.
Although it was SF last time.  But that's not what I'm driving at.  I just find them all a bunch of amateurs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on November 21, 2023, 06:50:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:05:39 PMNot singling out SF, but the irony of politicians coming out today one after another to express their concern at bank closures in small towns. Whatever the rights and wrongs, they have lost the right to criticise when all they do is sit around getting paid to do nothing apart from bicker.  A press release is a good days work in their wee world.
That's due to one party and their drug dealing bosses. Not SF or SDLP or Alliance or any other party.
Although it was SF last time.  But that's not what I'm driving at.  I just find them all a bunch of amateurs.

+1
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 21, 2023, 07:29:17 PM
Quote from: LC on November 21, 2023, 06:50:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:05:39 PMNot singling out SF, but the irony of politicians coming out today one after another to express their concern at bank closures in small towns. Whatever the rights and wrongs, they have lost the right to criticise when all they do is sit around getting paid to do nothing apart from bicker.  A press release is a good days work in their wee world.
That's due to one party and their drug dealing bosses. Not SF or SDLP or Alliance or any other party.
Although it was SF last time.  But that's not what I'm driving at.  I just find them all a bunch of amateurs.

+1

Nobody has a good opinion of politicians.

Maybe they think one or two work hard on their behalf etc. but as a colletive, they get no thanks.

That's the way it works, the world over.  Ireland is no different.

Where do politicians rank? Worse than bankers, estate agents or traffic wardens???

 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2023, 07:34:06 PM
They are worse (just) than anonymous keyboard warriors  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 21, 2023, 07:29:17 PM
Quote from: LC on November 21, 2023, 06:50:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:05:39 PMNot singling out SF, but the irony of politicians coming out today one after another to express their concern at bank closures in small towns. Whatever the rights and wrongs, they have lost the right to criticise when all they do is sit around getting paid to do nothing apart from bicker.  A press release is a good days work in their wee world.
That's due to one party and their drug dealing bosses. Not SF or SDLP or Alliance or any other party.
Although it was SF last time.  But that's not what I'm driving at.  I just find them all a bunch of amateurs.

+1

Nobody has a good opinion of politicians.

Maybe they think one or two work hard on their behalf etc. but as a colletive, they get no thanks.

That's the way it works, the world over.  Ireland is no different.

Where do politicians rank? Worse than bankers, estate agents or traffic wardens???

 
Hard to know. On one hand I do know some here that work their arse off and if you needed something they'll do their best to help you out. They get the blame at times for everything that goes wrong when a lot of the time its the system rather than the individuals. Of course there are plenty of downright nasty c***ts of politicians (most of the DUP and the Tories) Any local ones I've ever had dealings with have been decent enough, from across the parties.

Would be great if politicians (from all parties) spent as much time trying to find common ground and work together to actually improve peoples lives as they do slagging each other off and point score at each others expense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: dec on November 21, 2023, 09:46:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 21, 2023, 07:29:17 PM
Quote from: LC on November 21, 2023, 06:50:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:05:39 PMNot singling out SF, but the irony of politicians coming out today one after another to express their concern at bank closures in small towns. Whatever the rights and wrongs, they have lost the right to criticise when all they do is sit around getting paid to do nothing apart from bicker.  A press release is a good days work in their wee world.
That's due to one party and their drug dealing bosses. Not SF or SDLP or Alliance or any other party.
Although it was SF last time.  But that's not what I'm driving at.  I just find them all a bunch of amateurs.

+1

Nobody has a good opinion of politicians.

Maybe they think one or two work hard on their behalf etc. but as a colletive, they get no thanks.

That's the way it works, the world over.  Ireland is no different.

Where do politicians rank? Worse than bankers, estate agents or traffic wardens???

 

If we could only find out who elected the politicians into the positions they hold.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 21, 2023, 11:12:50 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 21, 2023, 07:29:17 PM
Quote from: LC on November 21, 2023, 06:50:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:05:39 PMNot singling out SF, but the irony of politicians coming out today one after another to express their concern at bank closures in small towns. Whatever the rights and wrongs, they have lost the right to criticise when all they do is sit around getting paid to do nothing apart from bicker.  A press release is a good days work in their wee world.
That's due to one party and their drug dealing bosses. Not SF or SDLP or Alliance or any other party.
Although it was SF last time.  But that's not what I'm driving at.  I just find them all a bunch of amateurs.

+1

Nobody has a good opinion of politicians.

Maybe they think one or two work hard on their behalf etc. but as a colletive, they get no thanks.

That's the way it works, the world over.  Ireland is no different.

Where do politicians rank? Worse than bankers, estate agents or traffic wardens???

 
Hard to know. On one hand I do know some here that work their arse off and if you needed something they'll do their best to help you out. They get the blame at times for everything that goes wrong when a lot of the time its the system rather than the individuals. Of course there are plenty of downright nasty c***ts of politicians (most of the DUP and the Tories) Any local ones I've ever had dealings with have been decent enough, from across the parties.

Would be great if politicians (from all parties) spent as much time trying to find common ground and work together to actually improve peoples lives as they do slagging each other off and point score at each others expense.

That happens much more than any of us realise. In fact, it's the only reason anything ever gets done in places like the north.

But we've all been conditioned to consider compromising and collaborating with political competitors as weakness, so politicians tend to keep quiet about the working together stuff.

It impresses us goons in the electorate much more when they appear to be tearing strips off each other.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 22, 2023, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: dec on November 21, 2023, 09:46:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 21, 2023, 07:29:17 PM
Quote from: LC on November 21, 2023, 06:50:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 21, 2023, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 21, 2023, 06:05:39 PMNot singling out SF, but the irony of politicians coming out today one after another to express their concern at bank closures in small towns. Whatever the rights and wrongs, they have lost the right to criticise when all they do is sit around getting paid to do nothing apart from bicker.  A press release is a good days work in their wee world.
That's due to one party and their drug dealing bosses. Not SF or SDLP or Alliance or any other party.
Although it was SF last time.  But that's not what I'm driving at.  I just find them all a bunch of amateurs.

+1

Nobody has a good opinion of politicians.

Maybe they think one or two work hard on their behalf etc. but as a colletive, they get no thanks.

That's the way it works, the world over.  Ireland is no different.

Where do politicians rank? Worse than bankers, estate agents or traffic wardens???

 

If we could only find out who elected the politicians into the positions they hold.

This is it. People who just blindly follow, with zero critical thinking.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on November 22, 2023, 05:28:46 PM
did you see the video of the guy going crazy at sinn fein


https://nitter.net/FindTh3Truth/status/1725648967906546125#m



 ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 22, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Just another Nazi extremist gobsh1te.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 22, 2023, 11:05:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 22, 2023, 06:36:55 PMJust another Nazi extremist gobsh1te.
Quote from: Eire90 on November 22, 2023, 05:28:46 PMdid you see the video of the guy going crazy at sinn fein


https://nitter.net/FindTh3Truth/status/1725648967906546125#m



 ;D


Cheering on the far right?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on November 23, 2023, 02:16:27 AM
i got no time for the far right or sinn fein
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on November 23, 2023, 10:34:16 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 23, 2023, 02:16:27 AMi got no time for the far right or sinn fein

You just had a chuckle about a Far Right nut job roaring abuse at Sinn Fein.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 23, 2023, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 23, 2023, 10:34:16 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 23, 2023, 02:16:27 AMi got no time for the far right or sinn fein

You just had a chuckle about a Far Right nut job roaring abuse at Sinn Fein.

SF can't hear him as they are on the Far Left.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on November 23, 2023, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 23, 2023, 10:34:16 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 23, 2023, 02:16:27 AMi got no time for the far right or sinn fein

You just had a chuckle about a Far Right nut job roaring abuse at Sinn Fein.

Yes, how dare you chuckle at someone calling out Sinn Fein for being traitors!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PM
Is Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 

So the stabbing of the children and adults created a crazy mob to come out and the Garda were at fault for not having enough police officers available (could have been for multiple reasons, under resourced or short staffed)  ah f**k it let's blame the peelers for not being on duty or close by or stay on longer for their shift to sort out a bunch of mindless whores.

If there are cutbacks then that's on the government

Let's blame the scumbags that did it, reserve any blame for them, it's like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on November 25, 2023, 12:47:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 

So the stabbing of the children and adults created a crazy mob to come out and the Garda were at fault for not having enough police officers available (could have been for multiple reasons, under resourced or short staffed)  ah f**k it let's blame the peelers for not being on duty or close by or stay on longer for their shift to sort out a bunch of mindless whores.

If there are cutbacks then that's on the government

Let's blame the scumbags that did it, reserve any blame for them, it's like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt
Afai the criticism is about the Garda leadership and government mismanagement not the ordinary Garda. The failures are at the top. There is a wider debate which you may not be aware of  but it has been going on for years about the dire policing levels in Dublin, how they are being degraded systematically  and the all too frequent need to call up gardai from the rest of the province to fill gaps. So yes when there is an emergency as this was in Dublin there are not enough gardai on standby ready to crack racist skulls. The other matters which I heard about on radio was this type of riot/mayhem had been flagged on social media for weeks, just waiting for an incident to happen. On the day, re this incident, the call went out on social media to the mindless thugs  to get into the city centre. Garda intelligence failed to monitor these sites and activists or take heed of the frequent warnings they were given by good citizens.
Much of this is quite similar to the Garda intelligence failure to take heed of top level warnings handed to them on a plate about the planned riot in Landsdown Road 1995 and their belated appearance to the scene of the riot.
 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 12:55:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 25, 2023, 12:47:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 

So the stabbing of the children and adults created a crazy mob to come out and the Garda were at fault for not having enough police officers available (could have been for multiple reasons, under resourced or short staffed)  ah f**k it let's blame the peelers for not being on duty or close by or stay on longer for their shift to sort out a bunch of mindless whores.

If there are cutbacks then that's on the government

Let's blame the scumbags that did it, reserve any blame for them, it's like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt
Afai the criticism is about the Garda leadership and government mismanagement not the ordinary Garda. The failures are at the top. There is a wider debate which you may not be aware of  but it has been going on for years about the dire policing levels in Dublin, how they are being degraded systematically  and the all too frequent need to call up gardai from the rest of the province to fill gaps. So yes when there is an emergency as this was in Dublin there are not enough gardai on standby ready to crack racist skulls. The other matters which I heard about on radio was this type of riot/mayhem had been flagged on social media for weeks, just waiting for an incident to happen. On the day, re this incident, the call went out on social media to get into the city centre. Garda intelligence failed to monitor these sites and activists or take heed of the frequent warnings they were given by good citizens.
Much of this is quite similar to the Garda intelligence failure to take heed of top level warnings handed to them on a plate about the planned riot in Landsdown Road 1995 and their belated appearance to the scene of the riot.
 


It's purely a government mismanagement issue in regards to underfunding with recruitment or being under staffed, having 500 police available at the drop of a hat is not practical, by that logic, every incident requires 500 stand by cops available just in case. Do you think that's logical?

from the reports I read, they were monitoring it, but only reacted with what they had available.

Again, blame the dirt birds who took advantage. Can't believe we are still highlighting the cops and not the victims..

So much for the South being better than the UK!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on November 25, 2023, 01:51:55 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 

There are less Gardaí pro rata than back 15 years ago and no evidence of any urgency to do anything about that, although there are more things for Gardaí to do. Hence we have louts able to do what they like nd less checkpoints on the road, so road deaths have increased. FG have just left Gardaí, the fire services, education, and many branches of health without enough staff. They may say that they got more, but the population is increasing and more are needed just to stay still.

There was a time when you could have relied in FG for law and order, if nothing else FFS.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on November 25, 2023, 03:17:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 12:55:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 25, 2023, 12:47:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 

So the stabbing of the children and adults created a crazy mob to come out and the Garda were at fault for not having enough police officers available (could have been for multiple reasons, under resourced or short staffed)  ah f**k it let's blame the peelers for not being on duty or close by or stay on longer for their shift to sort out a bunch of mindless whores.

If there are cutbacks then that's on the government

Let's blame the scumbags that did it, reserve any blame for them, it's like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt
Afai the criticism is about the Garda leadership and government mismanagement not the ordinary Garda. The failures are at the top. There is a wider debate which you may not be aware of  but it has been going on for years about the dire policing levels in Dublin, how they are being degraded systematically  and the all too frequent need to call up gardai from the rest of the province to fill gaps. So yes when there is an emergency as this was in Dublin there are not enough gardai on standby ready to crack racist skulls. The other matters which I heard about on radio was this type of riot/mayhem had been flagged on social media for weeks, just waiting for an incident to happen. On the day, re this incident, the call went out on social media to get into the city centre. Garda intelligence failed to monitor these sites and activists or take heed of the frequent warnings they were given by good citizens.
Much of this is quite similar to the Garda intelligence failure to take heed of top level warnings handed to them on a plate about the planned riot in Landsdown Road 1995 and their belated appearance to the scene of the riot.
 


It's purely a government mismanagement issue in regards to underfunding with recruitment or being under staffed, having 500 police available at the drop of a hat is not practical, by that logic, every incident requires 500 stand by cops available just in case. Do you think that's logical?

from the reports I read, they were monitoring it, but only reacted with what they had available.

Again, blame the dirt birds who took advantage. Can't believe we are still highlighting the cops and not the victims..

So much for the South being better than the UK!
Who is highlighting the cops? not Mary Lou,  she spelled it out clear it was not the gardai but the commissioner and minister who must take the responsibility for the sad state of affairs with the force.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on November 25, 2023, 09:11:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 

So the stabbing of the children and adults created a crazy mob to come out and the Garda were at fault for not having enough police officers available (could have been for multiple reasons, under resourced or short staffed)  ah f**k it let's blame the peelers for not being on duty or close by or stay on longer for their shift to sort out a bunch of mindless whores.

If there are cutbacks then that's on the government

Let's blame the scumbags that did it, reserve any blame for them, it's like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt

Who's blaming the rank and file Gardaí?

As usual, you're adding up 2 and 2 and getting 5....in order to gain anti-SF retoric traction.

It's a debate around Harris and Mc Entee.  This can be clearly seen from the 3 or 4 posts, posted by others, after my initial comment.

GDA members have no confidence in Harris. As a matter of fact, they voted a vote of no confidence in him a month or so ago.



 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 10:51:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 25, 2023, 09:11:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 

So the stabbing of the children and adults created a crazy mob to come out and the Garda were at fault for not having enough police officers available (could have been for multiple reasons, under resourced or short staffed)  ah f**k it let's blame the peelers for not being on duty or close by or stay on longer for their shift to sort out a bunch of mindless whores.

If there are cutbacks then that's on the government

Let's blame the scumbags that did it, reserve any blame for them, it's like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt

Who's blaming the rank and file Gardaí?

As usual, you're adding up 2 and 2 and getting 5....in order to gain anti-SF retoric traction.

It's a debate around Harris and Mc Entee.  This can be clearly seen from the 3 or 4 posts, posted by others, after my initial comment.

GDA members have no confidence in Harris. As a matter of fact, they voted a vote of no confidence in him a month or so ago.



 

So where is my anti SF stance? She was giving off about the police reaction..

"The cold truth and the reality that we must confront today is that the Gardaí lost control of the centre of our capital city. A mob was allowed to shut down the centre of the city.  Public transport locked down. People stranded in the city.

This was an unacceptable, unprecedented collapse in policing.."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 27, 2023, 10:18:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 10:51:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 25, 2023, 09:11:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 

So the stabbing of the children and adults created a crazy mob to come out and the Garda were at fault for not having enough police officers available (could have been for multiple reasons, under resourced or short staffed)  ah f**k it let's blame the peelers for not being on duty or close by or stay on longer for their shift to sort out a bunch of mindless whores.

If there are cutbacks then that's on the government

Let's blame the scumbags that did it, reserve any blame for them, it's like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt

Who's blaming the rank and file Gardaí?

As usual, you're adding up 2 and 2 and getting 5....in order to gain anti-SF retoric traction.

It's a debate around Harris and Mc Entee.  This can be clearly seen from the 3 or 4 posts, posted by others, after my initial comment.

GDA members have no confidence in Harris. As a matter of fact, they voted a vote of no confidence in him a month or so ago.



 

So where is my anti SF stance? She was giving off about the police reaction..

"The cold truth and the reality that we must confront today is that the Gardaí lost control of the centre of our capital city. A mob was allowed to shut down the centre of the city.  Public transport locked down. People stranded in the city.

This was an unacceptable, unprecedented collapse in policing.."
A few of my friends from the Leinster area have been joking (with a jag) that they would not go into Dublin at night because it is unsafe and under policed. They were not really joking though. I'd say the government more than Harris has to step up. Same up here with the PSNI. Easy to defund policing as opposed to other public sector areas.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 27, 2023, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 27, 2023, 10:18:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 10:51:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 25, 2023, 09:11:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 10:37:04 PMIs Mary Lou and SF taking potshots at how the Garda (in her words) failed to prevent that riot?

Christ the night

Not sure what her words were or what you say they were but good debate this evening on Harris and Mc Entee.

A good few political parties and people in general asking questions about the gardaí.  According to reports there was widespread info. that a gathering was going to take place and the guards were late to the party, so to speak.

This was going to kick off sometime soon and the gardaí are under-resourced and don't have the manpower.  There have been a few incidents in DCC recently - tourists getting battered etc. and Mc Entee spoofing that Dublin City Centre is safe.

This is a legacy issue going back a good few years but is part of the problem also.

The court system needs to change fast to tighten things up also and hopefully this will be the spark to get things back on the level. 

So the stabbing of the children and adults created a crazy mob to come out and the Garda were at fault for not having enough police officers available (could have been for multiple reasons, under resourced or short staffed)  ah f**k it let's blame the peelers for not being on duty or close by or stay on longer for their shift to sort out a bunch of mindless whores.

If there are cutbacks then that's on the government

Let's blame the scumbags that did it, reserve any blame for them, it's like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt

Who's blaming the rank and file Gardaí?

As usual, you're adding up 2 and 2 and getting 5....in order to gain anti-SF retoric traction.

It's a debate around Harris and Mc Entee.  This can be clearly seen from the 3 or 4 posts, posted by others, after my initial comment.

GDA members have no confidence in Harris. As a matter of fact, they voted a vote of no confidence in him a month or so ago.



 

So where is my anti SF stance? She was giving off about the police reaction..

"The cold truth and the reality that we must confront today is that the Gardaí lost control of the centre of our capital city. A mob was allowed to shut down the centre of the city.  Public transport locked down. People stranded in the city.

This was an unacceptable, unprecedented collapse in policing.."
A few of my friends from the Leinster area have been joking (with a jag) that they would not go into Dublin at night because it is unsafe and under policed. They were not really joking though. I'd say the government more than Harris has to step up. Same up here with the PSNI. Easy to defund policing as opposed to other public sector areas.

Just raise the taxes (considering how good the economy is in the south) and that'll pay for extra police.

I suspect attention on Harris is completely for one reason, anyone thinks any different is fooling themselves
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 27, 2023, 07:35:41 PM
Giving out about the garda? Same outfit was taking pot shots at them years ago. Irony or what!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on November 27, 2023, 10:20:21 PM
mary lou confronted tonight


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 27, 2023, 10:58:51 PM
A mob of Fascists haranguing her and accusing her of having the blood of 3 children on her hands.
I think 1 of the scum was arrested.
Long past time the Gardai clamped down hard on those cnuts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on November 27, 2023, 11:05:25 PM
She should be representing her constituents.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 11:24:07 PM
She'd wanna rethink the open borders shite they're pedalling.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on November 27, 2023, 11:29:12 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 11:24:07 PMShe'd wanna rethink the open borders shite they're pedalling.

She really would. An awful lot of people who vote for SF assume they're nationalist, and have the back of the 'salt of the earth' Irish working class. Not a bit of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on November 27, 2023, 11:29:39 PM
If Sinn Fein really wanted into power in the south all they'd have to do is come out and say that immigration would be controlled like in Australia and they would win a landslide victory in the next election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PM
The stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on November 27, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PMThe stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Plenty of legitimate ways for citizens to express their views, but not by haranguing their politician walking to their car.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 27, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PMThe stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Plenty of legitimate ways for citizens to express their views, but not by haranguing their politician walking to their car.

Well if she is refusing to address their concerns, she only has herself to blame if  they harangue her
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on November 28, 2023, 01:05:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 27, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PMThe stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Plenty of legitimate ways for citizens to express their views, but not by haranguing their politician walking to their car.

Well if she is refusing to address their concerns, she only has herself to blame if  they harangue her
Concerns of whoever?  racists dullards? Mary Lou does have to answer to blow-in dumb as fck racists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2023, 01:10:29 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 28, 2023, 01:05:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 27, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PMThe stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Plenty of legitimate ways for citizens to express their views, but not by haranguing their politician walking to their car.

Well if she is refusing to address their concerns, she only has herself to blame if  they harangue her
Concerns of whoever?  racists dullards? Mary Lou does have to answer to blow-in dumb as fck racists.

That constituency elected a Sinn Fein TD, a PBP TD and a Green Party TD at the last election

Now all of a sudden her constituents are right wing racists because they don't want  open borders

Ive heard it all now
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on November 28, 2023, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2023, 01:10:29 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 28, 2023, 01:05:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 27, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PMThe stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Plenty of legitimate ways for citizens to express their views, but not by haranguing their politician walking to their car.

Well if she is refusing to address their concerns, she only has herself to blame if  they harangue her
Concerns of whoever?  racists dullards? Mary Lou does have to answer to blow-in dumb as fck racists.

That constituency elected a Sinn Fein TD, a PBP TD and a Green Party TD at the last election

Now all of a sudden her constituents are right wing racists because they don't want  open borders

Ive heard it all now
Her racist constituents? Where did you get that info from? in all likelihood they are blow-in racists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2023, 01:24:20 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 28, 2023, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2023, 01:10:29 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 28, 2023, 01:05:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 27, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PMThe stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Plenty of legitimate ways for citizens to express their views, but not by haranguing their politician walking to their car.

Well if she is refusing to address their concerns, she only has herself to blame if  they harangue her
Concerns of whoever?  racists dullards? Mary Lou does have to answer to blow-in dumb as fck racists.

That constituency elected a Sinn Fein TD, a PBP TD and a Green Party TD at the last election

Now all of a sudden her constituents are right wing racists because they don't want  open borders

Ive heard it all now
Her racist constituents? Where did you get that info from? in all likelihood they are blow-in racists.

So none of the people protesting are from that area?

Were the people peacefully protesting in East Wall also blow in racists?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 06:49:37 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 27, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PMThe stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Plenty of legitimate ways for citizens to express their views, but not by haranguing their politician walking to their car.

Well if she is refusing to address their concerns, she only has herself to blame if  they harangue her

and if they go one step further and stab her she only has herself to blame also I suppose
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2023, 07:42:43 AM
This is why words are so important, it's sometimes best to say nothing or say less.

Mary Lou isn't responsible for the EU policy nor for asylum rules within the EU, she's not responsible for the attack at the school or the murder of that young girl.

But you can't start stoking fires and look for political gains when things are going to shit.

Every country is having to deal with this problem, building walls, protesting, rioting and allowing the far right (Holland) to gain traction.

A real think tank between the parties needs to be done, what's the best approach?

If the Aussie one works then look at it, if it can be tweaked then look at it.

Putting people to work will grow the economy, it will build public buildings required to sustain a growing population, anyone that thinks Ireland should be just Irish is as bad as the DUP who think the north is still a Protestant state.

Sensible ideas won't make you a racist btw, but some are clearly racist.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on November 28, 2023, 07:55:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 28, 2023, 01:05:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 27, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PMThe stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Plenty of legitimate ways for citizens to express their views, but not by haranguing their politician walking to their car.

Well if she is refusing to address their concerns, she only has herself to blame if  they harangue her
Concerns of whoever?  racists dullards? Mary Lou does have to answer to blow-in dumb as fck racists.

Ha ha! But we all have to answer to blow-in immigrants? Get a life.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on November 28, 2023, 08:31:03 AM
when people protests outside dail politicians walk past them and laugh with snugness.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 08:44:34 AM
Quote from: clarshack on November 27, 2023, 11:29:39 PMIf Sinn Fein really wanted into power in the south all they'd have to do is come out and say that immigration would be controlled like in Australia and they would win a landslide victory in the next election.
Neither Sinn Féin or the vast majority of us have any intention of leaving the EU.
A bit ironic mentioning Australia where the descendants of the illegal immigrant land robbers decide who can or can't now land there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 28, 2023, 08:58:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 08:44:34 AM
Quote from: clarshack on November 27, 2023, 11:29:39 PMIf Sinn Fein really wanted into power in the south all they'd have to do is come out and say that immigration would be controlled like in Australia and they would win a landslide victory in the next election.
Neither Sinn Féin or the vast majority of us have any intention of leaving the EU.
A bit ironic mentioning Australia where the descendants of the illegal immigrant land robbers decide who can or can't now land there.
Australia do it the right way. Anyone coming there only gets in if they are going to add something to the country. Only way to do it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 09:25:41 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 28, 2023, 08:58:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 08:44:34 AM
Quote from: clarshack on November 27, 2023, 11:29:39 PMIf Sinn Fein really wanted into power in the south all they'd have to do is come out and say that immigration would be controlled like in Australia and they would win a landslide victory in the next election.
Neither Sinn Féin or the vast majority of us have any intention of leaving the EU.
A bit ironic mentioning Australia where the descendants of the illegal immigrant land robbers decide who can or can't now land there.
Australia do it the right way. Anyone coming there only gets in if they are going to add something to the country. Only way to do it

can we get rid of the locals who dont add anything to the country then?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 28, 2023, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 09:25:41 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 28, 2023, 08:58:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 08:44:34 AM
Quote from: clarshack on November 27, 2023, 11:29:39 PMIf Sinn Fein really wanted into power in the south all they'd have to do is come out and say that immigration would be controlled like in Australia and they would win a landslide victory in the next election.
Neither Sinn Féin or the vast majority of us have any intention of leaving the EU.
A bit ironic mentioning Australia where the descendants of the illegal immigrant land robbers decide who can or can't now land there.
Australia do it the right way. Anyone coming there only gets in if they are going to add something to the country. Only way to do it

can we get rid of the locals who dont add anything to the country then?
Ideally lol. But sure we've enough of them without importing more!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on November 28, 2023, 09:51:44 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2023, 01:10:29 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 28, 2023, 01:05:04 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 27, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2023, 11:30:01 PMThe stabbings occurred in her constituency where she romped home with 35% of the first preference votes in 2020 (equal to the first preference total for next 3 candidates combined)

She is accountable to her constituents
Plenty of legitimate ways for citizens to express their views, but not by haranguing their politician walking to their car.

Well if she is refusing to address their concerns, she only has herself to blame if  they harangue her
Concerns of whoever?  racists dullards? Mary Lou does have to answer to blow-in dumb as fck racists.

That constituency elected a Sinn Fein TD, a PBP TD and a Green Party TD at the last election

Now all of a sudden her constituents are right wing racists because they don't want  open borders

Ive heard it all now

So a small mob of loudsmouths is more representative of the views of the constituency than the voting record of the entire constituency?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 10:11:47 AM
Do those clowns who "don't want open borders" want us to leave the EU?
Do they want us to become a Western Albania like we were on the 1950s?

They're so effn thick that they probably do.
Then we have those who say we're "importing" people.
The only people being brought in are those from non EU Countries and non Brits for whom Employers get work permits.
(I know the word work is an unknown concept to our right wing extremists).
Others - Brits, EU citizens and people applying for International Protection - arrive of their own volition.

As for Mary Lou, I'm not a SF voter but as an elected Representative she's entitled to go about her business without a mob of foul mouthed scumbags harassing her.
One of them shouted something about her and SF being "terrorists"....

I wonder what Nationality that individual was.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2023, 10:13:00 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 10:11:47 AMDo those clowns who "don't want open borders" want us to leave the EU?
Do they want us to become a Western Albania like we were on the 1950s?

They're so effn thick that they probably do.
Then we have those who say we're "importing" people.
The only people being brought in are those from non EU Countries and non Brits for whom Employers get work permits.
(I know the word work is an unknown concept to our right wing extremists).
Others - Brits, EU citizens and people applying for International Protection - arrive of their own volition.

As for Mary Lou, I'm not a SF voter but as an elected Representative she's entitled to go about her business without a mob of foul mouthed scumbags harassing her.
One of them shouted something about her and SF being "terrorists"....

I wonder what Nationality that individual was.

Do you want open borders?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2023, 10:17:57 AM
So what if  we just enforce the laws we already have to the letter of the law, bring welfare rates and eligibility in line with the rest of the EU and IMMEDIATELY deport people who are ordered deported by the courts after due process.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Cavan19 on November 28, 2023, 10:21:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 10:11:47 AMDo those clowns who "don't want open borders" want us to leave the EU?
Do they want us to become a Western Albania like we were on the 1950s?

They're so effn thick that they probably do.
Then we have those who say we're "importing" people.
The only people being brought in are those from non EU Countries and non Brits for whom Employers get work permits.
(I know the word work is an unknown concept to our right wing extremists).
Others - Brits, EU citizens and people applying for International Protection - arrive of their own volition.

As for Mary Lou, I'm not a SF voter but as an elected Representative she's entitled to go about her business without a mob of foul mouthed scumbags harassing her.
One of them shouted something about her and SF being "terrorists"....

I wonder what Nationality that individual was.

No doubt voted for SF in the last election aswell.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 10:33:09 AM
They attacked a PBP meeting in Dublin last night as well.

I don't support PBP but they're entitled to have their meetings free from harassment by extremist xenophobic scumbags.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: naka on November 28, 2023, 10:43:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2023, 07:42:43 AMThis is why words are so important, it's sometimes best to say nothing or say less.

Mary Lou isn't responsible for the EU policy nor for asylum rules within the EU, she's not responsible for the attack at the school or the murder of that young girl.

But you can't start stoking fires and look for political gains when things are going to shit.

Every country is having to deal with this problem, building walls, protesting, rioting and allowing the far right (Holland) to gain traction.

A real think tank between the parties needs to be done, what's the best approach?

If the Aussie one works then look at it, if it can be tweaked then look at it.

Putting people to work will grow the economy, it will build public buildings required to sustain a growing population, anyone that thinks Ireland should be just Irish is as bad as the DUP who think the north is still a Protestant state.

Sensible ideas won't make you a racist btw, but some are clearly racist.


the difficulty is that this topic like the trans war has become toxic, sensible suggestions are shot down allowing teh right to fill a void. i agree though we need a grown up conversation on criteria needed and how do deal with illiegal migrants otherwise matters are simply going to get more entrenched.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 10:47:42 AM
what do people mean by open borders? Do you think people get off a plane and stroll through dublin airport into a taxi without being checked?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on November 28, 2023, 10:51:32 AM
I'm all for getting stuck into SF but this isn't the issue to do it on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2023, 11:24:53 AM
Kind of ironic now when you look back at how SF and PBP ginned up massive protests, assaults and intimidation against the government the time of the water charges

Funny how they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 01:43:39 PM
Could I point out that applicants for International Protection are not illegal.
If their application is rejected and they don't leave and don't appeal then they are illegally in the State.
Anither example woukd be someone who'd got a visa for a term and didn't leave when it expired.

No Irish person would do the likes of that anywhere of course🙄.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 01:43:39 PMCould I point out that applicants for International Protection are not illegal.
If their application is rejected and they don't leave and don't appeal then they are illegally in the State.
Anither example woukd be someone who'd got a visa for a term and didn't leave when it expired.

No Irish person would do the likes of that anywhere of course🙄.

Never. But we dont talk about that do we............
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on November 28, 2023, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 01:43:39 PMCould I point out that applicants for International Protection are not illegal.
If their application is rejected and they don't leave and don't appeal then they are illegally in the State.
Anither example woukd be someone who'd got a visa for a term and didn't leave when it expired.

No Irish person would do the likes of that anywhere of course🙄.


Never. But we dont talk about that do we............

So, because we have Irish in American and Australia over-staying their visas, we should let all illegals here stay on?
It's like "because we already have murderers in Ireland, we should let in a heap more".

Obviously, it's up to Americans to deport those who are in their country illegally.

By the way, tonto1888 (I think it was you who asked), the 7% figure for forced deportation comes from an Irish Times article from earlier this year looking at figures for the last 5 years. Unfortunately, it's now behind a paywall but, as I recall, there was something like a further 7% that voluntarily left the state. However, these were never followed up on, so could in reality be less.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2023, 08:56:34 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 28, 2023, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 01:43:39 PMCould I point out that applicants for International Protection are not illegal.
If their application is rejected and they don't leave and don't appeal then they are illegally in the State.
Anither example woukd be someone who'd got a visa for a term and didn't leave when it expired.

No Irish person would do the likes of that anywhere of course🙄.


Never. But we dont talk about that do we............

So, because we have Irish in American and Australia over-staying their visas, we should let all illegals here stay on?
It's like "because we already have murderers in Ireland, we should let in a heap more".

Obviously, it's up to Americans to deport those who are in their country illegally.

By the way, tonto1888 (I think it was you who asked), the 7% figure for forced deportation comes from an Irish Times article from earlier this year looking at figures for the last 5 years. Unfortunately, it's now behind a paywall but, as I recall, there was something like a further 7% that voluntarily left the state. However, these were never followed up on, so could in reality be less.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/03/politics/deportations-without-court-hearings/index.html

And in the States you can be kicked out of the country almost immediately (without a court hearing) if you over stay a visa

" In recent years, immigration authorities have increasingly fast-tracked their efforts to kick certain people out of the United States without court hearings in a process known as "expedited removal."

Only about 15% of the roughly 400,000 people who are removed from the United States each year ever go before a judge, according to Greg Chen, advocacy director of the American Immigration Lawyers Association."

You're not entitled to years of frivolous appeals paid for by the taxpayer either

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 09:06:25 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 28, 2023, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 01:43:39 PMCould I point out that applicants for International Protection are not illegal.
If their application is rejected and they don't leave and don't appeal then they are illegally in the State.
Anither example woukd be someone who'd got a visa for a term and didn't leave when it expired.

No Irish person would do the likes of that anywhere of course🙄.


Never. But we dont talk about that do we............

So, because we have Irish in American and Australia over-staying their visas, we should let all illegals here stay on?
It's like "because we already have murderers in Ireland, we should let in a heap more".

Obviously, it's up to Americans to deport those who are in their country illegally.

By the way, tonto1888 (I think it was you who asked), the 7% figure for forced deportation comes from an Irish Times article from earlier this year looking at figures for the last 5 years. Unfortunately, it's now behind a paywall but, as I recall, there was something like a further 7% that voluntarily left the state. However, these were never followed up on, so could in reality be less.

Didn't say that at all but it does seem that some people think one rule for them and one for us.

Yeah it was me who asked. Cheers for that. Shame it's behind a paywall. I'd like to read that and see more details on the figures. It's a topic I have a genuine interest in
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2023, 12:05:21 AM
I love the immigrant complaining about immigrants  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: full moon on November 29, 2023, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 10:33:09 AMThey attacked a PBP meeting in Dublin last night as well.

I don't support PBP but they're entitled to have their meetings free from harassment by extremist xenophobic scumbags.
The National Party were attacked with knives in Enniskillen last year at a meeting by a bunch of Dissidents and far left Antifa types.

Wasn't much sympathy for them or police help. Guess that's okay to the usual mob on here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 01:41:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 29, 2023, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 10:33:09 AMThey attacked a PBP meeting in Dublin last night as well.

I don't support PBP but they're entitled to have their meetings free from harassment by extremist xenophobic scumbags.
The National Party were attacked with knives in Enniskillen last year at a meeting by a bunch of Dissidents and far left Antifa types.

Wasn't much sympathy for them or police help. Guess that's okay to the usual mob on here.
2 showers of wankers.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GTP on November 29, 2023, 02:14:08 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 09:06:25 PMYeah it was me who asked. Cheers for that. Shame it's behind a paywall. I'd like to read that and see more details on the figures. It's a topic I have a genuine interest in


Irish TImes
Conor Gallagher
Tue Mar 21 2023 - 05:00

Less than 7 per cent of the more than 4,500 deportation orders issued in the last five years have been seen through by force, according to Department of Justice figures.
A further 9.2 per cent of failed asylum seekers left the country themselves after their applications were unsuccessful, leaving some 3,900 people, more than 80 per cent, with an unknown status. Security sources said a large proportion of these applicants would have left the State without telling the authorities, but the exact figure is impossible to determine.
In total, 4,631 deportation orders were issued by the Government to people whose asylum applications were rejected between 2018 and last year. Gardaí enforced 314 such orders, according to figures released under the Freedom of Information Act.
The Department of Justice assisted another 430 people to self-deport, according to separate figures released in response to a parliamentary question. This is done by referring failed asylum seekers to the International Office for Migration (IOM) which assists them with voluntarily returning to their country of origin.
Asked about the issue, the department said many other people leave the country "of their own accord". A spokeswoman said forced deportations were only carried out as a "last resort, where the person concerned has not removed themselves or engaged with the IOM to avail of assisted voluntary return measures".
Just 26 deportations were carried out by force last year, representing some 5 per cent of the deportation orders issued.
The highest number of forced deportations were carried out in 2019, when 155 people (some 6.7 per cent of total deportation orders issued) were escorted out of the State by gardaí.
"Deportation and removal processes are an essential part of any immigration system; it must be acknowledged that those who do not have a legal right to remain in this country must return to their own country, following fair procedure and having gone through all available avenues for appeal," the department spokeswoman said.
"A person subject to a deportation order has no legal basis to remain in the State. Their case to remain in the State has been considered in detail and all available appeals processes have been exhausted."
She said deportation orders were not enforced during the Covid-19 pandemic, "except in cases of individuals whose presence in Ireland would be contrary to the public interest". Just 33 such orders were issued in 2020, with five forced deportations and 33 self-deportations recorded.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar told the Dáil earlier this month that "work is being done to increase the number of deportations to countries of transit and countries of origin". He said deportations were difficult to carry out "and you can only ever do a certain number".
However, he said the deportations carried out had "an important deterrent effect".
"If people believe that if they come to the country, claim international protection and have no prospect of being deported, this will increase the number of people who come here invalidly."
Separately, 24 people were removed from Ireland last year under the Dublin Convention, which states asylum seekers must seek refugee status in the first safe country they arrive in.
"While the numbers of transfers effected appear low, it should be noted that Dublin regulation transfers can be challenging to enforce due to a number of factors, including potential legal challenges and transfer arrangements which need to be made with the returning country," Minister for Justice Simon Harris said earlier this month.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 29, 2023, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 01:41:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 29, 2023, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 10:33:09 AMThey attacked a PBP meeting in Dublin last night as well.

I don't support PBP but they're entitled to have their meetings free from harassment by extremist xenophobic scumbags.
The National Party were attacked with knives in Enniskillen last year at a meeting by a bunch of Dissidents and far left Antifa types.

Wasn't much sympathy for them or police help. Guess that's okay to the usual mob on here.
2 showers of wankers.

Maybe so but the PBPers got 5 TDs elected while the others lost 40 odd deposits in 2020.
I wonder what happened to Litler's gold?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on November 29, 2023, 02:31:57 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 01:41:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 29, 2023, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 10:33:09 AMThey attacked a PBP meeting in Dublin last night as well.

I don't support PBP but they're entitled to have their meetings free from harassment by extremist xenophobic scumbags.
The National Party were attacked with knives in Enniskillen last year at a meeting by a bunch of Dissidents and far left Antifa types.

Wasn't much sympathy for them or police help. Guess that's okay to the usual mob on here.
2 showers of wankers.

Agree and the irony is Antifa are as fascist as those they claim to be against. Weren't they listed as a Terrorist organisation in the US?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: GTP on November 29, 2023, 02:14:08 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 09:06:25 PMYeah it was me who asked. Cheers for that. Shame it's behind a paywall. I'd like to read that and see more details on the figures. It's a topic I have a genuine interest in


Irish TImes
Conor Gallagher
Tue Mar 21 2023 - 05:00

Less than 7 per cent of the more than 4,500 deportation orders issued in the last five years have been seen through by force, according to Department of Justice figures.
A further 9.2 per cent of failed asylum seekers left the country themselves after their applications were unsuccessful, leaving some 3,900 people, more than 80 per cent, with an unknown status. Security sources said a large proportion of these applicants would have left the State without telling the authorities, but the exact figure is impossible to determine.
In total, 4,631 deportation orders were issued by the Government to people whose asylum applications were rejected between 2018 and last year. Gardaí enforced 314 such orders, according to figures released under the Freedom of Information Act.
The Department of Justice assisted another 430 people to self-deport, according to separate figures released in response to a parliamentary question. This is done by referring failed asylum seekers to the International Office for Migration (IOM) which assists them with voluntarily returning to their country of origin.
Asked about the issue, the department said many other people leave the country "of their own accord". A spokeswoman said forced deportations were only carried out as a "last resort, where the person concerned has not removed themselves or engaged with the IOM to avail of assisted voluntary return measures".
Just 26 deportations were carried out by force last year, representing some 5 per cent of the deportation orders issued.
The highest number of forced deportations were carried out in 2019, when 155 people (some 6.7 per cent of total deportation orders issued) were escorted out of the State by gardaí.
"Deportation and removal processes are an essential part of any immigration system; it must be acknowledged that those who do not have a legal right to remain in this country must return to their own country, following fair procedure and having gone through all available avenues for appeal," the department spokeswoman said.
"A person subject to a deportation order has no legal basis to remain in the State. Their case to remain in the State has been considered in detail and all available appeals processes have been exhausted."
She said deportation orders were not enforced during the Covid-19 pandemic, "except in cases of individuals whose presence in Ireland would be contrary to the public interest". Just 33 such orders were issued in 2020, with five forced deportations and 33 self-deportations recorded.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar told the Dáil earlier this month that "work is being done to increase the number of deportations to countries of transit and countries of origin". He said deportations were difficult to carry out "and you can only ever do a certain number".
However, he said the deportations carried out had "an important deterrent effect".
"If people believe that if they come to the country, claim international protection and have no prospect of being deported, this will increase the number of people who come here invalidly."
Separately, 24 people were removed from Ireland last year under the Dublin Convention, which states asylum seekers must seek refugee status in the first safe country they arrive in.
"While the numbers of transfers effected appear low, it should be noted that Dublin regulation transfers can be challenging to enforce due to a number of factors, including potential legal challenges and transfer arrangements which need to be made with the returning country," Minister for Justice Simon Harris said earlier this month.



cheers though I do not think the dublin convention does state that. Rather - Under the terms of the Dublin Regulation "there is no obligation on asylum seekers to claim in the first country they enter. Rather, they set out a hierarchy of criteria for states to decide which country should assume responsibility for considering the asylum application", according to the House of Commons Library. Having said that: "one of the relevant factors for determining responsibility is which Member State the asylum seeker first entered or claimed asylum in."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2023, 02:44:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 29, 2023, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 01:41:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 29, 2023, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2023, 10:33:09 AMThey attacked a PBP meeting in Dublin last night as well.

I don't support PBP but they're entitled to have their meetings free from harassment by extremist xenophobic scumbags.
The National Party were attacked with knives in Enniskillen last year at a meeting by a bunch of Dissidents and far left Antifa types.

Wasn't much sympathy for them or police help. Guess that's okay to the usual mob on here.
2 showers of wankers.

Maybe so but the PBPers got 5 TDs elected while the others lost 40 odd deposits in 2020.
I wonder what happened to Litler's gold?

So PBP/Solidarity combination received 57K first preference votes in 2020

Aontu received 41k
Freedom Party received 5.5K
Renua received 5.4K
Natl Party received 4.7K

For a total of 56 K odd first preference votes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Irish_general_election
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 29, 2023, 03:52:22 PM
Why are you putting Aontú in with that sh1te?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 04:00:03 PM
whats the deal with Aontú
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 29, 2023, 04:05:13 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 04:00:03 PMwhats the deal with Aontú
Born again taigs. Make Trump's policies on women's health look liberal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 29, 2023, 04:07:30 PM
Michael Martin bleating yesterday about SF calling for McEntee's resignation as an election stunt. He needs to put on his big boy pants, every opposition in the world attacks the governing parties in this way. He'd be better off investing some cash in the Garda.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on November 29, 2023, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 04:00:03 PMwhats the deal with Aontú

Aontú is a socially conservative party but, in my view, is fairly soft on immigration/ is afraid to rock that boat.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on November 29, 2023, 04:26:49 PM
a lot of people are angry over sinn feins strange obsession with palestine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2023, 04:30:31 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 29, 2023, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 04:00:03 PMwhats the deal with Aontú

Aontú is a socially conservative party but, in my view, is fairly soft on immigration/ is afraid to rock that boat.

https://aontu.ie/immigration

Actually by the standard of this forum they're flat out Nazis when it comes to immigration


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 04:33:01 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 04:00:03 PMwhats the deal with Aontú
Sinn Fein only less baby killing and rainbow stuff.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on November 29, 2023, 05:09:11 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 29, 2023, 04:26:49 PMa lot of people are angry over sinn feins strange obsession with palestine.

Who exactly?
Israeli oppressors, Irish baying Fascist gang? DUP?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 04:33:01 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 04:00:03 PMwhats the deal with Aontú
Sinn Fein only less baby killing and rainbow stuff.

LOL. Who are you trying to impress
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 05:55:51 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 04:33:01 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 29, 2023, 04:00:03 PMwhats the deal with Aontú
Sinn Fein only less baby killing and rainbow stuff.

LOL. Who are you trying to impress
More or less is ....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on November 30, 2023, 08:47:21 PM
Who's paying for all these libel cases Sinn Fein and their members are taking against journalists and others?  Well into double figures apparently.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on November 30, 2023, 09:10:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 29, 2023, 04:26:49 PMa lot of people are angry over sinn feins strange obsession with palestine.

Going by your posts it's you who has the strange obsession with Palestine/ the Shinners
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on November 30, 2023, 09:22:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 30, 2023, 08:47:21 PMWho's paying for all these libel cases Sinn Fein and their members are taking against journalists and others?  Well into double figures apparently.

Maybe coming from this money?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1210/1098316-william-hampton/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 01, 2023, 12:35:22 PM
why have the dissidents remained quiet about Dublin riot as far as i am aware and irsp types too think they had a meeting in Strabane about immigration could the far right in ireland not have been dealt with if dissedents or irsps/inla types  went after them or gave them a warning to cease operations or do they have no power anymore or they too busy dealing drugs.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 01, 2023, 12:46:19 PM
Sinn Féin putting down a "No Confidence" motion in McEntee.

What a fkn immature waste of time!!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 01, 2023, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 01, 2023, 12:46:19 PMSinn Féin putting down a "No Confidence" motion in McEntee.

What a fkn immature waste of time!!


Why?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2023, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 01, 2023, 12:35:22 PMwhy have the dissidents remained quiet about Dublin riot as far as i am aware and irsp types too think they had a meeting in Strabane about immigration could the far right in ireland not have been dealt with if dissedents or irsps/inla types  went after them or gave them a warning to cease operations or do they have no power anymore or they too busy dealing drugs.

So you're advocating for  a paramilitary organization to identify/define  who is "far right" and then threaten them with death or serious bodily harm if they dont accept unlimited unvetted migrants not their communities?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 01, 2023, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 01, 2023, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 01, 2023, 12:46:19 PMSinn Féin putting down a "No Confidence" motion in McEntee.

What a fkn immature waste of time!!


Why?

It will achieve nothing, will generate a load of waffle and hot air in the Dáil, the Government will put down a Counter motion which will be passed and then it will be time to adjourn the Dáil.

Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnn
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: full moon on December 01, 2023, 03:10:52 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 01, 2023, 12:35:22 PMwhy have the dissidents remained quiet about Dublin riot as far as i am aware and irsp types too think they had a meeting in Strabane about immigration could the far right in ireland not have been dealt with if dissedents or irsps/inla types  went after them or gave them a warning to cease operations or do they have no power anymore or they too busy dealing drugs.

Dissidents mostly ran by MI5 at this point, attacked the National Party with knives last year in Enniskillen and somehow mostly got away with.

The reason is because there is no Dissidents left in the South, not least due to immigration harming their cause and all their followers deserting them.

You'll find many of the same folk from the 2006 Love Ulster riots are in "right wing" circles now. Times change, Ireland is a different country compared to then.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: full moon on December 01, 2023, 03:11:56 PM
Interesting the IRSP meeting about immigration. Not like they're far right, they're far Left. But these groups are so small now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: full moon on December 01, 2023, 03:13:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 01, 2023, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 01, 2023, 12:35:22 PMwhy have the dissidents remained quiet about Dublin riot as far as i am aware and irsp types too think they had a meeting in Strabane about immigration could the far right in ireland not have been dealt with if dissedents or irsps/inla types  went after them or gave them a warning to cease operations or do they have no power anymore or they too busy dealing drugs.

So you're advocating for  a paramilitary organization to identify/define  who is "far right" and then threaten them with death or serious bodily harm if they dont accept unlimited unvetted migrants not their communities?
Already happened once in Enniskillen and they mostly got away with it.

Those guys are dangerous because they are all touts and informants
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 01, 2023, 03:19:26 PM
A lot of those irsp types are unemployed aswell but no one looks down un them because they wave certain flags but ordinary people are look down upon.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 01, 2023, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 01, 2023, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 01, 2023, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 01, 2023, 12:46:19 PMSinn Féin putting down a "No Confidence" motion in McEntee.

What a fkn immature waste of time!!


Why?

It will achieve nothing, will generate a load of waffle and hot air in the Dáil, the Government will put down a Counter motion which will be passed and then it will be time to adjourn the Dáil.

Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnn
Is that not just politics in general lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: full moon on December 01, 2023, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 30, 2023, 09:22:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 30, 2023, 08:47:21 PMWho's paying for all these libel cases Sinn Fein and their members are taking against journalists and others?  Well into double figures apparently.

Maybe coming from this money?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1210/1098316-william-hampton/
Very strange that case
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2023, 04:25:03 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 01, 2023, 03:17:52 PMno not advocating it i just wonder why it hasnt happened yet because the inla claim to be left wing socialists who want a 32 couunty socialist republic are far right groups not against that idea and in cahoots with britain first.


also do some of these dissident type groups have middle eastern members.

I know only one member of Saoradh and he is seriously on the outs with the local Sinn Fein people

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the dissidents sided with the Anti Immingration crowd to stick it to the Shinners
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 01, 2023, 04:38:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 01, 2023, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 01, 2023, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 01, 2023, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 01, 2023, 12:46:19 PMSinn Féin putting down a "No Confidence" motion in McEntee.

What a fkn immature waste of time!!


Why?

It will achieve nothing, will generate a load of waffle and hot air in the Dáil, the Government will put down a Counter motion which will be passed and then it will be time to adjourn the Dáil.

Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnn
Is that not just politics in general lol

Indeed😄😆
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on December 01, 2023, 04:52:26 PM
Think it was Saoradh who attacked the NP Ard Fheis with hammers last year? Not sure about that. They also attacked an IFP canvass in Belfast before that - and one of the canvassers was a black woman, and all! Mind you, all these republican bioleninists and spiteful mutants morph into one another. They probably have lost a bit of purchase in working class areas on the immigration issue, and I believe that, in Dublin at least, they won't take on concerned communities.

Eire90 - a 32 county socialist republic isn't necessarily incompatible w/ what some on the right would want. At least insofar as they'd all advocate for a united Ireland, and the likes of NP ain't exactly arch-capitalists, either. The difference is, the republican bioleninists push for a universal socialist utopia, whereas the right are much more nationalist in emphasis.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: full moon on December 01, 2023, 05:15:32 PM
I see Kitty Holland is in serious bother for comments on BBC last night attacking the grieving boyfriend of Ashling Murphy call for him to be censored, a bigot and inviting hatred etc.

Deeply evil comments from her, no idea how Irish Times can keep her on this time. She will likely be sued to high heaven the least she deserves.

People like her are everything wrong with this country.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: full moon on December 01, 2023, 05:19:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 01, 2023, 04:25:03 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 01, 2023, 03:17:52 PMno not advocating it i just wonder why it hasnt happened yet because the inla claim to be left wing socialists who want a 32 couunty socialist republic are far right groups not against that idea and in cahoots with britain first.


also do some of these dissident type groups have middle eastern members.

I know only one member of Saoradh and he is seriously on the outs with the local Sinn Fein people

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the dissidents sided with the Anti Immingration crowd to stick it to the Shinners
I don't think they have the numbers especially down south. And the truth is there far far more immigration in the Republic than the North.

That's the big chasm now. You can see it even on here with posters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 03, 2023, 02:14:40 PM
sinn fein types harassing people outside mcdonalds.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 03, 2023, 02:17:58 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 03, 2023, 02:14:40 PMsinn fein types harassing people outside mcdonalds.

Link??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 03, 2023, 02:22:25 PM
in strabane yesterday they put up a flag on the pole and were telling people to boycott them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 03, 2023, 02:52:44 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 03, 2023, 02:22:25 PMin strabane yesterday they put up a flag on the pole and were telling people to boycott them.
As they should. That food is poison
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2023, 02:56:16 PM
Go up against McDonald's and the masses of kiddies who love it,will kick the crap outta u lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 03, 2023, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2023, 02:52:44 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 03, 2023, 02:22:25 PMin strabane yesterday they put up a flag on the pole and were telling people to boycott them.
As they should. That food is poison

Nowhere near as bad for you as a chippy or a Chinese, which this country is obsessed with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on December 03, 2023, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 03, 2023, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2023, 02:52:44 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 03, 2023, 02:22:25 PMin strabane yesterday they put up a flag on the pole and were telling people to boycott them.
As they should. That food is poison

I beg to differ

Nowhere near as bad for you as a chippy or a Chinese, which this country is obsessed with.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 03, 2023, 03:38:17 PM
None of them would be great for you. Chinese or chippy be more fattening but some of the preservatives and shite that mcdonalds food wouldn't be good.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on December 03, 2023, 04:09:12 PM
Would have thought a chippy would be the least bad out of those?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 03, 2023, 05:56:42 PM
Love a decent Indian
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 03, 2023, 06:00:42 PM
Sinn Fein? They have gone to the takeaway, you know.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 03, 2023, 08:01:38 PM
Chippy ár Lá
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on December 03, 2023, 08:06:16 PM
Quote from: clarshack on December 03, 2023, 04:09:12 PMWould have thought a chippy would be the least bad out of those?
Is that you, Sammy?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on December 04, 2023, 02:33:03 PM
The Brits proposing to do away with the first minister position, but of course the current impasse has nothing to do with blocking there being a taig as first minister...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 04, 2023, 05:30:15 PM
Conor McGregor has hinted that he may be about to run for president, and has already attacked his potential political opponents.

He noted the ages of potential candidates Gerry Adams (78), Bertie Ahern (75) and Enda Kenny (74).

He said each of these possible candidates have "unbreakable ties to their individual parties politics".

He accused the mainstream parties of governing themselves rather than governing the people.

He offered himself as an alternative candidate who is: "Young, active, passionate, fresh skin in the game. I listen. I support. I adapt. I have no affiliation/bias/favoritism toward any party
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 04, 2023, 06:29:42 PM
Waterford Whispers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 04, 2023, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 04, 2023, 05:30:15 PMConor McGregor has hinted that he may be about to run for president, and has already attacked his potential political opponents.

He noted the ages of potential candidates Gerry Adams (78), Bertie Ahern (75) and Enda Kenny (74).

He said each of these possible candidates have "unbreakable ties to their individual parties politics".

He accused the mainstream parties of governing themselves rather than governing the people.

He offered himself as an alternative candidate who is: "Young, active, passionate, fresh skin in the game. I listen. I support. I adapt. I have no affiliation/bias/favoritism toward any party

Pure comedy gold😆😅🤣😂
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 04, 2023, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2023, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 04, 2023, 05:30:15 PMConor McGregor has hinted that he may be about to run for president, and has already attacked his potential political opponents.

He noted the ages of potential candidates Gerry Adams (78), Bertie Ahern (75) and Enda Kenny (74).

He said each of these possible candidates have "unbreakable ties to their individual parties politics".

He accused the mainstream parties of governing themselves rather than governing the people.

He offered himself as an alternative candidate who is: "Young, active, passionate, fresh skin in the game. I listen. I support. I adapt. I have no affiliation/bias/favoritism toward any party

Pure comedy gold😆😅🤣😂

He even managed to get all three of their ages wrong  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 04, 2023, 10:49:08 PM
Has anyone told him you need to be over 35 and get nominated by either 20 members of the Oireachtas or 4 Councils?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2023, 12:37:12 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2023, 10:49:08 PMHas anyone told him you need to be over 35 and get nominated by either 20 members of the Oireachtas or 4 Councils?

He's 35 so theres no issue there. Like all things in politics, there is an Elite feel for running for President. The nomination process keeps the outsiders out. In this case keeping McGregor out would not be the worst thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 05, 2023, 06:10:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 04, 2023, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2023, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 04, 2023, 05:30:15 PMConor McGregor has hinted that he may be about to run for president, and has already attacked his potential political opponents.

He noted the ages of potential candidates Gerry Adams (78), Bertie Ahern (75) and Enda Kenny (74).

He said each of these possible candidates have "unbreakable ties to their individual parties politics".

He accused the mainstream parties of governing themselves rather than governing the people.

He offered himself as an alternative candidate who is: "Young, active, passionate, fresh skin in the game. I listen. I support. I adapt. I have no affiliation/bias/favoritism toward any party

Pure comedy gold😆😅🤣😂
Quote from: Snapchap on December 04, 2023, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2023, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 04, 2023, 05:30:15 PMConor McGregor has hinted that he may be about to run for president, and has already attacked his potential political opponents.

He noted the ages of potential candidates Gerry Adams (78), Bertie Ahern (75) and Enda Kenny (74).

He said each of these possible candidates have "unbreakable ties to their individual parties politics".

He accused the mainstream parties of governing themselves rather than governing the people.

He offered himself as an alternative candidate who is: "Young, active, passionate, fresh skin in the game. I listen. I support. I adapt. I have no affiliation/bias/favoritism toward any party

Pure comedy gold😆😅🤣😂

He even managed to get all three of their ages wrong  ::)

He even managed to get all three of their ages wrong  ::)

I was thinking Gerry Adams couldn't be 78.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 05, 2023, 09:10:06 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2023, 12:37:12 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2023, 10:49:08 PMHas anyone told him you need to be over 35 and get nominated by either 20 members of the Oireachtas or 4 Councils?

He's 35 so theres no issue there. Like all things in politics, there is an Elite feel for running for President. The nomination process keeps the outsiders out. In this case keeping McGregor out would not be the worst thing.

Dunno. Did you see some of the arseholes who managed to run the last time, including most of the Dragons from Dragon's Den. Thank God Michael D ran or we'd have someone like Peter Casey.
These things always attract a novelty arsehole candidate. When McGregor finds out that he can't even leave the country without the approval of the government he'll soon cool his interest.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 06, 2023, 12:04:11 AM
SF TD suggests that partitioning Ukraine would be a good plan given the success of partition in Ireland.
Maybe this should be in the WTF thead!

https://twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/1732100001944232107
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on December 06, 2023, 12:29:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 05, 2023, 06:10:42 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 04, 2023, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2023, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 04, 2023, 05:30:15 PMConor McGregor has hinted that he may be about to run for president, and has already attacked his potential political opponents.

He noted the ages of potential candidates Gerry Adams (78), Bertie Ahern (75) and Enda Kenny (74).

He said each of these possible candidates have "unbreakable ties to their individual parties politics".

He accused the mainstream parties of governing themselves rather than governing the people.

He offered himself as an alternative candidate who is: "Young, active, passionate, fresh skin in the game. I listen. I support. I adapt. I have no affiliation/bias/favoritism toward any party

Pure comedy gold😆😅🤣😂
Quote from: Snapchap on December 04, 2023, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 04, 2023, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 04, 2023, 05:30:15 PMConor McGregor has hinted that he may be about to run for president, and has already attacked his potential political opponents.

He noted the ages of potential candidates Gerry Adams (78), Bertie Ahern (75) and Enda Kenny (74).

He said each of these possible candidates have "unbreakable ties to their individual parties politics".

He accused the mainstream parties of governing themselves rather than governing the people.

He offered himself as an alternative candidate who is: "Young, active, passionate, fresh skin in the game. I listen. I support. I adapt. I have no affiliation/bias/favoritism toward any party

Pure comedy gold😆😅🤣😂

He even managed to get all three of their ages wrong  ::)

He even managed to get all three of their ages wrong  ::)

I was thinking Gerry Adams couldn't be 78.

75 since October, per wikipedia.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on December 06, 2023, 07:57:03 AM
Next Pres. election not 'til 2025?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on December 06, 2023, 11:19:52 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 04, 2023, 05:30:15 PMConor McGregor has hinted that he may be about to run for president, and has already attacked his potential political opponents.

He noted the ages of potential candidates Gerry Adams (78), Bertie Ahern (75) and Enda Kenny (74).

He said each of these possible candidates have "unbreakable ties to their individual parties politics".

He accused the mainstream parties of governing themselves rather than governing the people.

He offered himself as an alternative candidate who is: "Young, active, passionate, fresh skin in the game. I listen. I support. I adapt. I have no affiliation/bias/favoritism toward any party
He'll have a certain populist appeal - those who want something for nothing, and believe others "work the system" better than they do.

Meanwhile the economy is still going gangbusters, our education system is highly lauded, young people with cop on and work ethic have unlimited opportunities. But there are jobs for everyone.

Houses are expensive, but that's the same in pretty much every developed country. Healthcare system is one thing that is below par, no matter how much money is thrown at it. It's good when you get into it, but if you are on a long waiting list, or stuck in A&E all of sudden, it can be a nightmare.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 11:40:33 AM
There were approximately 132,800 people unemployed in the Republic of Ireland in October 2023, compared with 130,100 in the previous month

It was higher 10 years ago

Of the 2,847,731 recipients of the main social welfare benefits, including free travel, 2,517,027 (88 per cent) are Irish nationals, 95,083 (3.3 per cent) are UK nationals, 25,164 (0.8 per cent) are nationals of the EU13, 144,115 (4 per cent) are from the EU15 to 28, and 66,342 (2.3 per cent) are non-EU nationals

More than a quarter of jobs in Ireland can be described as poor despite the booming economy and ongoing labour shortages, according to a report on the quality of employment
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Keyser soze on December 06, 2023, 11:53:15 AM
Conor McGregor, the epitome of someone with a big mouth and a tiny brain.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 06, 2023, 01:05:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 11:40:33 AMThere were approximately 132,800 people unemployed in the Republic of Ireland in October 2023, compared with 130,100 in the previous month

It was higher 10 years ago

Of the 2,847,731 recipients of the main social welfare benefits, including free travel, 2,517,027 (88 per cent) are Irish nationals, 95,083 (3.3 per cent) are UK nationals, 25,164 (0.8 per cent) are nationals of the EU13, 144,115 (4 per cent) are from the EU15 to 28, and 66,342 (2.3 per cent) are non-EU nationals

More than a quarter of jobs in Ireland can be described as poor despite the booming economy and ongoing labour shortages, according to a report on the quality of employment

Contributory Pensions are not a welfare benefit, they were paid for when the person was working for 40 years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on December 06, 2023, 01:38:52 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1206/1420467-pps-stakeknife/

Shinners are usually fairly vocal in the media when it comes the PPS dropping cases against former security force members however something tells me they will not be saying much about this one.  They will be glad to see this one brushed under the carpet no doubt.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 02:06:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 06, 2023, 01:05:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 11:40:33 AMThere were approximately 132,800 people unemployed in the Republic of Ireland in October 2023, compared with 130,100 in the previous month

It was higher 10 years ago

Of the 2,847,731 recipients of the main social welfare benefits, including free travel, 2,517,027 (88 per cent) are Irish nationals, 95,083 (3.3 per cent) are UK nationals, 25,164 (0.8 per cent) are nationals of the EU13, 144,115 (4 per cent) are from the EU15 to 28, and 66,342 (2.3 per cent) are non-EU nationals

More than a quarter of jobs in Ireland can be described as poor despite the booming economy and ongoing labour shortages, according to a report on the quality of employment

Contributory Pensions are not a welfare benefit, they were paid for when the person was working for 40 years.

So even if they haven't been working 40 years? The percent of people claiming are Irish Nationals and 2.3 are non EU
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 07, 2023, 11:57:22 AM
It's nearly 30 years from the GFA, FF/FG still bleating on about SF's past and alleged criminal links. They have some neck when you look at the payment to politician scandals of the past revisited on the death of Ben Dunne. The first Dail was full of boys who still had paramilitary and terrorist links and weren't nearly 30 years removed. The hypocrisy stinks to high heaven. Challenge SF on their policies, but if you have to revert to this then you are losing the argument.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 07, 2023, 01:58:21 PM
They want to put the middle class under 40s off voting for the Shinners😉
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 07, 2023, 02:27:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 07, 2023, 01:58:21 PMThey want to put the middle class under 40s off voting for the Shinners😉
Experience in the North would suggest it having the opposite effect.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 07, 2023, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 07, 2023, 11:57:22 AMIt's nearly 30 years from the GFA, FF?FG still bleating on about SF's past and alleged criminal links. They have som neck when you look at the payment to politician scandals of the past revisited on the death of Ben Dunne. The first nail was full of boys who still had paramilitary and terrorist links and weren't nearly 30 years removed. The hypocrisy stinks to high heaven. Challenge SF on their policies, but if you have to revert to this then you are losing the argument.

Ff/FG will simply state that these payments from Dunne etc were wrong then and down to individuals like Haughey or Lowry. Whereas SF will not clearly state that the Adare bank robbery was wrong.

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 07, 2023, 02:27:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 07, 2023, 01:58:21 PMThey want to put the middle class under 40s off voting for the Shinners😉
Experience in the North would suggest it having the opposite effect.

The North was an entirely criminal enterprise from day 1, it is hardly made more so by voting for SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 09, 2023, 09:28:18 PM
sinn feiners harassing people of derry and strabane again today
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on December 09, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 09, 2023, 09:28:18 PMsinn feiners harassing people of derry and strabane again today

What's this about?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 09, 2023, 10:19:17 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 09, 2023, 09:28:18 PMsinn feiners harassing people of derry and strabane again today

Better not to eat in McDonalds anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 01:58:30 AM
sinn fein members and other political types confronted in ballyshannon tonight by angry concerned residents.people want to know what sinn fein are up to.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2023, 09:12:09 AM
"Angry concerned residents" ????

There wouldn't be some asylum seekers coming?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on December 15, 2023, 09:15:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 01:58:30 AMsinn fein members and other political types confronted in ballyshannon tonight by angry concerned residents.people want to know what sinn fein are up to.

Yeah seen Tommy Robinson tweeting about that too. Some company you're alligning yourself with there.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 15, 2023, 10:59:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2023, 09:15:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 01:58:30 AMsinn fein members and other political types confronted in ballyshannon tonight by angry concerned residents.people want to know what sinn fein are up to.

Yeah seen Tommy Robinson tweeting about that too. Some company you're alligning yourself with there.
What was it about? Haven't seen anything
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2023, 10:59:34 AM
No doubt organised by KM and the rent a crowd of concerned fascists....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2023, 11:32:58 AM
Leo Varadkar is "far right"

Why isn't anyone calling for his resignation

https://x.com/john_mcguirk/status/1734286763718287527?s=46&t=lH_6NhrWXceXekvYr1XRpg
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 15, 2023, 12:06:56 PM
Well done to the people of Ballyshannon
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2023, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 15, 2023, 09:15:04 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 01:58:30 AMsinn fein members and other political types confronted in ballyshannon tonight by angry concerned residents.people want to know what sinn fein are up to.

Yeah seen Tommy Robinson tweeting about that too. Some company you're alligning yourself with there.

Was the meeting in Ballyshannon reported anywhere on RTE or Independent/ Irish Times?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 03:47:35 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 01:58:30 AMsinn fein members and other political types confronted in ballyshannon tonight by angry concerned residents.people want to know what sinn fein are up to.

What exactly are they up to?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:32:28 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/alleged-brothel-keeper-arrested-after-45-vulnerable-sex-workers-found-at-properties-in-dublin-and-louth-faces-more-charges/a207567401.html


45 women held captive.....unbelievable

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 15, 2023, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:32:28 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/alleged-brothel-keeper-arrested-after-45-vulnerable-sex-workers-found-at-properties-in-dublin-and-louth-faces-more-charges/a207567401.html


45 women held captive.....unbelievable


Not a subscriber so can only read first few lines. Awful, hope the women get the support they need.

 How are Sinn Fein involved?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:52:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 15, 2023, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:32:28 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/alleged-brothel-keeper-arrested-after-45-vulnerable-sex-workers-found-at-properties-in-dublin-and-louth-faces-more-charges/a207567401.html


45 women held captive.....unbelievable


Not a subscriber so can only read first few lines. Awful, hope the women get the support they need.

 How are Sinn Fein involved?

They support open borders
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thebigfella on December 15, 2023, 05:48:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:52:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 15, 2023, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:32:28 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/alleged-brothel-keeper-arrested-after-45-vulnerable-sex-workers-found-at-properties-in-dublin-and-louth-faces-more-charges/a207567401.html


45 women held captive.....unbelievable


Not a subscriber so can only read first few lines. Awful, hope the women get the support they need.

 How are Sinn Fein involved?

They support open borders

If the natives didn't pay for it, then there wouldn't be a need to traffic people for sex. Your nonsense is calling out the wrong people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 05:51:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2023, 10:59:34 AMNo doubt organised by KM and the rent a crowd of concerned fascists....

i dont know who KM is but i do know your sheep farmer guy from castlefinn donegal was there mcconnell he seems to  be back active again after time out he gave sinn fein a mouthful.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:52:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 15, 2023, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:32:28 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/alleged-brothel-keeper-arrested-after-45-vulnerable-sex-workers-found-at-properties-in-dublin-and-louth-faces-more-charges/a207567401.html


45 women held captive.....unbelievable


Not a subscriber so can only read first few lines. Awful, hope the women get the support they need.

 How are Sinn Fein involved?

They support open borders

So absolutely nothing at all to do with the brothels found then. Gotcha.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 06:43:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiMk-TmNq1w&ab_channel=SíolnahÉireann-NiallMcConnell
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
Plantation meeting ;D  ;D
Is Eire90 the board's fascistbot?

Usual rentafascists?

We won't be leaving the CTA, we won't be leaving the EU, We won't be sealing our only land border ( with the rest of Ireland)
We won't be breaking International Law, we won't be ending work permits.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PM
where did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable

Lad you are an immigrant yourself.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:34:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable

Lad you are an immigrant yourself.

Yes

Legal , law abiding and tax paying
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:34:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable

Lad you are an immigrant yourself.

Yes

Legal , law abiding and tax paying

As are the vast majority of ones here too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 15, 2023, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:34:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable

Lad you are an immigrant yourself.

Yes

Legal , law abiding and tax paying

As are the vast majority of ones here too.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/weekly-social-welfare-for-new-ukrainian-refugees-set-to-be-slashed-to-3880/a1643705371.html


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ukrainian-refugees-push-back-against-paying-for-meals-and-risk-eviction/a9632757.html

These must be typos then

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 16, 2023, 12:12:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:34:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable

Lad you are an immigrant yourself.

Yes

Legal , law abiding and tax paying

As are the vast majority of ones here too.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/weekly-social-welfare-for-new-ukrainian-refugees-set-to-be-slashed-to-3880/a1643705371.html


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ukrainian-refugees-push-back-against-paying-for-meals-and-risk-eviction/a9632757.html

These must be typos then



Do the states take in refugees?

Considering they are the main cause for producing them in the first place
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 16, 2023, 12:10:32 PM
Racist yank doesn't understand the words "vast majority" obviously.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 16, 2023, 12:41:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 16, 2023, 12:12:50 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:34:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2023, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 15, 2023, 07:11:57 PMwhere did i call it a plantation i put the video up so people could see what happen



now tell me where i said it was a planatation i am not responsible for mcconnels videos have a word withj mcconnel if you have a problem i put the video up so people could see what happen last night but you shoot the messanger of a video i come from a neutral perspective.

It's the oldest trick in the book that these guys are pulling

"Reputable" news sources such as RTE, Irish Independent and the Irish Times won't report on what happened at this meeting because it doesn't suit their agenda.


So then the only reports that are available are from the more fringe elements on social media which they can then throw back in your face as disreputable

Lad you are an immigrant yourself.

Yes

Legal , law abiding and tax paying

As are the vast majority of ones here too.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/weekly-social-welfare-for-new-ukrainian-refugees-set-to-be-slashed-to-3880/a1643705371.html


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ukrainian-refugees-push-back-against-paying-for-meals-and-risk-eviction/a9632757.html

These must be typos then



Do the states take in refugees?

Considering they are the main cause for producing them in the first place
Themselves and the Brits have caused them all ffs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on December 16, 2023, 12:49:40 PM
So do we now have two threads to post links when a foreigner does something bad?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 16, 2023, 06:27:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 16, 2023, 12:49:40 PMSo do we now have two threads to post links when a foreigner does something bad?

Well based on Sinn Feins own recent actions and words, I would confidently assume that if a person advocated for background checks on people coming in, or demanded that convicted criminals get deported, they'd be accused of being a racist, a bigot or an Xenephobe
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 17, 2023, 02:35:19 AM
Interview: McDonald says she wants 'space for people to ask questions' about immigration

https://www.thejournal.ie/mary-lou-mcdonald-interview-immigration-6250999-Dec2023/?utm_source=shortlink


are sinn fein pivoting towards a more anti immigration stance are  they  terrified of losing votes and people standing up and confronting them in heartlands like donegal
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2023, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 17, 2023, 02:35:19 AMInterview: McDonald says she wants 'space for people to ask questions' about immigration

https://www.thejournal.ie/mary-lou-mcdonald-interview-immigration-6250999-Dec2023/?utm_source=shortlink


are sinn fein pivoting towards a more anti immigration stance are  they  terrified of losing votes and people standing up and confronting them in heartlands like donegal

SF have got away with immature student debating type contentions, e.g. multinationals bad, landlords bad, tenants good, all immigrants are welcome etc. Being in government requires mature positions on these things and the immigration one is especially difficult.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 17, 2023, 01:19:32 PM
I think the issue with the current government is they've had loads of time to fix crises, especially the housing issue.

No will to deal with it.  It'll be what SF will be hammering home in the run up to the next election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2023, 01:21:50 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 17, 2023, 01:19:32 PMI think the issue with the current government is they've had loads of time to fix crises, especially the housing issue.

No will to deal with it.  It'll be what SF will be hammering home in the run up to the next election.

they'll probably say its Sinn Feins fault they couldn't fix any of them issues. Bit like the time Liz Truss made a mess of the economy and they tried to blame it on Labour
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on December 19, 2023, 06:58:11 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 17, 2023, 01:19:32 PMI think the issue with the current government is they've had loads of time to fix crises, especially the housing issue.

No will to deal with it.  It'll be what SF will be hammering home in the run up to the next election.

FF and FG created the housing crisis alright, by having one of the most successful economies in the world over the last two decades. Property prices go up, like every successful city, when everyone who wants a job has a job and there are so many well paid jobs. And then exacerbated by no building during the pandemic which makes the housing hole bigger, like most developed countries.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2023, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Hound on December 19, 2023, 06:58:11 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 17, 2023, 01:19:32 PMI think the issue with the current government is they've had loads of time to fix crises, especially the housing issue.

No will to deal with it.  It'll be what SF will be hammering home in the run up to the next election.

FF and FG created the housing crisis alright, by having one of the most successful economies in the world over the last two decades. Property prices go up, like every successful city, when everyone who wants a job has a job and there are so many well paid jobs. And then exacerbated by no building during the pandemic which makes the housing hole bigger, like most developed countries.

Not even in the top 25

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on December 19, 2023, 12:16:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2023, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Hound on December 19, 2023, 06:58:11 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 17, 2023, 01:19:32 PMI think the issue with the current government is they've had loads of time to fix crises, especially the housing issue.

No will to deal with it.  It'll be what SF will be hammering home in the run up to the next election.

FF and FG created the housing crisis alright, by having one of the most successful economies in the world over the last two decades. Property prices go up, like every successful city, when everyone who wants a job has a job and there are so many well paid jobs. And then exacerbated by no building during the pandemic which makes the housing hole bigger, like most developed countries.

Not even in the top 25

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

That's by overall size which favours higher populated countries. If you did by head of population, Ireland would be top 3. Neither would be accurate, the latter inflated by MNCs. But certainly the quality of life for the majority in Ireland well exceeds many of those 25. Ireland usually scores high on UN Human Development Index.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2023, 12:18:47 PM
Quote from: weareros on December 19, 2023, 12:16:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2023, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: Hound on December 19, 2023, 06:58:11 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 17, 2023, 01:19:32 PMI think the issue with the current government is they've had loads of time to fix crises, especially the housing issue.

No will to deal with it.  It'll be what SF will be hammering home in the run up to the next election.

FF and FG created the housing crisis alright, by having one of the most successful economies in the world over the last two decades. Property prices go up, like every successful city, when everyone who wants a job has a job and there are so many well paid jobs. And then exacerbated by no building during the pandemic which makes the housing hole bigger, like most developed countries.

Not even in the top 25

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

That's by overall size which favours higher populated countries. If you did by head of population, Ireland would be top 3. Neither would be accurate, the latter inflated by MNCs. But certainly the quality of life for the majority in Ireland well exceeds many of those 25. Ireland usually scores high on UN Human Development Index.

Does the human development index take into account the eastwall brigade?  I'd say that would skew the figures  ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 19, 2023, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: Hound on December 19, 2023, 06:58:11 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 17, 2023, 01:19:32 PMI think the issue with the current government is they've had loads of time to fix crises, especially the housing issue.

No will to deal with it.  It'll be what SF will be hammering home in the run up to the next election.

FF and FG created the housing crisis alright, by having one of the most successful economies in the world over the last two decades. Property prices go up, like every successful city, when everyone who wants a job has a job and there are so many well paid jobs. And then exacerbated by no building during the pandemic which makes the housing hole bigger, like most developed countries.

If you count success as young people being Ireland's biggest export, knock yourself out.

If you count success as young families and couples in their 30's as success, go ahead.

When did the pandemic start? 2020.

How long have FFG been in power?  They weren't elected last month. 

As I say, no will to tackle the housing crisis.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2023, 06:44:35 PM
Jases we seem to be back in 50s or 80s according to Marty🙄
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 20, 2023, 11:04:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:52:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 15, 2023, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2023, 04:32:28 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/alleged-brothel-keeper-arrested-after-45-vulnerable-sex-workers-found-at-properties-in-dublin-and-louth-faces-more-charges/a207567401.html


45 women held captive.....unbelievable


Not a subscriber so can only read first few lines. Awful, hope the women get the support they need.

 How are Sinn Fein involved?

They support open borders
No they don't read Mary Lou's answer to that question it the IT today. They do not support open borders, they do support a humanitarian approach to refugees and asylum seekers who are genuine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2023, 11:29:42 AM
"Open Borders" is another of the Continental Europe Fascist buzz words.

Do those Irish anti immigrant individuals* want the 26 Cos to leave the CTA and the EU and seal the Border with the rest of Ireland?

* including those FF Councillors who are getting so vocal last few days in Galway and Cork.
One saying he's nearer to Fianna Fáil thinking than Micheál Martin
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on December 20, 2023, 12:00:56 PM
If right wing political insurgents types have a   better local election that expected and sinn fein do worse could we see sinn fein pivot towards more anti immigration.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 29, 2023, 11:38:50 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760)

Housing probably a major issue in the next election. But it isn't just an Irish problem.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 12:01:51 PM
Biden on St Patrick's Day is very tricky for the Shinners. They can't afford to cut themselves off from Irish America by doing a Paddy Cosgrave but if they don't they betray the Palestinians. What would Jesus do?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 12:08:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 12:01:51 PMBiden on St Patrick's Day is very tricky for the Shinners. They can't afford to cut themselves off from Irish America by doing a Paddy Cosgrave but if they don't they betray the Palestinians. What would Jesus do?

Be interesting to hear what you think they should do?

If any politician has any grain of decency they shouldn't turn up if they believe in the cause of the Palestinians.

They'll need to source new money for funding the party though. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 29, 2023, 01:24:51 PM
I presume "Irish America" is supportive of Netanyahu's butchery too?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 01:29:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 29, 2023, 01:24:51 PMI presume "Irish America" is supportive of Netanyahu's butchery too?


You can be Irish American and not supportive?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on December 29, 2023, 01:40:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 12:01:51 PMBiden on St Patrick's Day is very tricky for the Shinners. They can't afford to cut themselves off from Irish America by doing a Paddy Cosgrave but if they don't they betray the Palestinians. What would Jesus do?

Irish America is still America unfortunately.

Be interesting to see what ALL the political parties do in 3 month's time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on December 29, 2023, 02:06:55 PM
It will be a tricky one. Biden and Schumer (most powerful Jewish-American politician) have been very supportive of Ireland during Brexit/Protocol, strong supporters of GFA, and Irish unity, and now Irish legal challenge to legacy bill. They are also the two most responsible for sending money/arms to Israel to slaughter Palestinians. Every year Sinn Fein get their photo with Chuck and he backs Irish unity and gets thick with the DUP, a they get even thicker with him. Will SF boycott? No. Will Chuck boycott Saint Paddy's celebrations? No. The headline "Schumer boycotts Saint Patti's Day in White House" won't play well with the Irish-American democratic voter. All politicians require a certain level of hypocrisy at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on December 29, 2023, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 29, 2023, 11:38:50 AMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760)

Housing probably a major issue in the next election. But it isn't just an Irish problem.

Read the article, scary stuff but not surprising.

My kids are still relatively young yet but I am already making provision to be in a position to support them in years to come and / or else give them a bit of a head start in life.

Back in my day I was able to get through uni, get married and buy my first house all under my own steam without any support from the folks.  No matter how much a grafter any young person his now they will still need substantial support (primarily financial) to get through the main stages of life I referred to above.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: LC on December 29, 2023, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 29, 2023, 11:38:50 AMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760)

Housing probably a major issue in the next election. But it isn't just an Irish problem.

Read the article, scary stuff but not surprising.

My kids are still relatively young yet but I am already making provision to be in a position to support them in years to come and / or else give them a bit of a head start in life.

Back in my day I was able to get through uni, get married and buy my first house all under my own steam without any support from the folks.  No matter how much a grafter any young person his now they will still need substantial support (primarily financial) to get through the main stages of life I referred to above.

Be prepared to have a lot of money, student loans won't cover rent should they move from home to a college across the water or far enough that living at home isn't an option.

I've covered both their rents, to 'help' lessen their burden, that's on top of my own mortgage, throw in the current cost of living, that help will require more funding.

Add in the sos calls of "I've no money" I'm not sure what's been siphoned out behind my back too..

So fair fecks for adding additional help for them to get on the property ladder!

I hope they don't get married  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 04:51:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 12:08:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 12:01:51 PMBiden on St Patrick's Day is very tricky for the Shinners. They can't afford to cut themselves off from Irish America by doing a Paddy Cosgrave but if they don't they betray the Palestinians. What would Jesus do?

Be interesting to hear what you think they should do?

If any politician has any grain of decency they shouldn't turn up if they believe in the cause of the Palestinians.

They'll need to source new money for funding the party though. 
It doesn't look like they have much choice. They need the US as a counterweight to the Unionist bloc. It has been vital since the GFA . Grandstanding will do nothing for them imo.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on December 29, 2023, 05:07:41 PM
The populist facade that Sinn Fein portray is  well and good when played out at the local county council chamber

Enter the world of global politics where sides have to be taken and friends/advocates expect to be supported and it's a whole different ballgame
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on December 29, 2023, 05:09:03 PM
Most of the world doesn't have a choice it appears. Even the UN had issues in there. Speak out at your peril tbh. It's quite worrying the hold that is had over "superpowers " that allows what is going on to go on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Deerstalker on December 29, 2023, 05:12:50 PM
Money, power and clout will come first for most political parties
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on December 29, 2023, 05:13:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: LC on December 29, 2023, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 29, 2023, 11:38:50 AMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760)

Housing probably a major issue in the next election. But it isn't just an Irish problem.

Read the article, scary stuff but not surprising.

My kids are still relatively young yet but I am already making provision to be in a position to support them in years to come and / or else give them a bit of a head start in life.

Back in my day I was able to get through uni, get married and buy my first house all under my own steam without any support from the folks.  No matter how much a grafter any young person his now they will still need substantial support (primarily financial) to get through the main stages of life I referred to above.

Be prepared to have a lot of money, student loans won't cover rent should they move from home to a college across the water or far enough that living at home isn't an option.

I've covered both their rents, to 'help' lessen their burden, that's on top of my own mortgage, throw in the current cost of living, that help will require more funding.

Add in the sos calls of "I've no money" I'm not sure what's been siphoned out behind my back too..

So fair fecks for adding additional help for them to get on the property ladder!

I hope they don't get married  ;D

Part of our planning has been and hopefully will be the case that the summer the eldest finishes secondary school is the year that our mortgage is paid.  Just a few more years to go and has not been easy in that we have had to make a few sacrifices e.g. drive a sh@t car, but at least its paid for.

I have resigned myself that on presumption oldest goes to Uni will be covering their rent and potentially that of siblings coming behind as a minimum.  No way I could do this and cover a mortgage at the same time.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 05:19:24 PM
This was a good example of a US voice joining a Brexit scrum against the Brits. The Shinners still need this.

https://youtu.be/R_byygue6gs
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 05:25:15 PM
I've a good friend who's three kids all got apprenticeships with PWC, no loans, no rent paid, all qualified in finance with degree qualifications plus earning a wage!

Not everyone wants a job in finance of course but this needs to be looked at in other professional roles, as it works well in the skilled sector.

Oh other added costs, flights for the wee ones at term time lol! 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 29, 2023, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: LC on December 29, 2023, 05:13:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: LC on December 29, 2023, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 29, 2023, 11:38:50 AMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67723760)

Housing probably a major issue in the next election. But it isn't just an Irish problem.

Read the article, scary stuff but not surprising.

My kids are still relatively young yet but I am already making provision to be in a position to support them in years to come and / or else give them a bit of a head start in life.

Back in my day I was able to get through uni, get married and buy my first house all under my own steam without any support from the folks.  No matter how much a grafter any young person his now they will still need substantial support (primarily financial) to get through the main stages of life I referred to above.

Be prepared to have a lot of money, student loans won't cover rent should they move from home to a college across the water or far enough that living at home isn't an option.

I've covered both their rents, to 'help' lessen their burden, that's on top of my own mortgage, throw in the current cost of living, that help will require more funding.

Add in the sos calls of "I've no money" I'm not sure what's been siphoned out behind my back too..

So fair fecks for adding additional help for them to get on the property ladder!

I hope they don't get married  ;D

Part of our planning has been and hopefully will be the case that the summer the eldest finishes secondary school is the year that our mortgage is paid.  Just a few more years to go and has not been easy in that we have had to make a few sacrifices e.g. drive a sh@t car, but at least its paid for.

I have resigned myself that on presumption oldest goes to Uni will be covering their rent and potentially that of siblings coming behind as a minimum.  No way I could do this and cover a mortgage at the same time.

Saving ourselves for kids futures. Whether it's university or Mortgage deposits. Gonna be the way if you want your kids to have a chance to go to college or get on the property ladder.
Using property to do that ourselves unfortunately.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 06:50:24 PM
So is getting a house going to be impossible without help?

Mortgages will be over 35 years nowadays rather than the traditional 25..

If they want a house they'll have to do it the same way I did, you save. You get a house when you can afford it.

People rushing out and living out of the house before they are married makes it difficult, staying at home allows young ones to save while not having big outgoings

My eldest daughter has found that when she has to pay her own rent that it stings!

She'll be back after this current rental is up, get a normal job and start saving!

The bank of mum and dad has to stop at some point.

I'm plotting my retirement now, head down, work hard and save!

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Deerstalker on December 29, 2023, 07:05:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 06:50:24 PMSo is getting a house going to be impossible without help?

Mortgages will be over 35 years nowadays rather than the traditional 25..

If they want a house they'll have to do it the same way I did, you save. You get a house when you can afford it.

People rushing out and living out of the house before they are married makes it difficult, staying at home allows young ones to save while not having big outgoings

My eldest daughter has found that when she has to pay her own rent that it stings!

She'll be back after this current rental is up, get a normal job and start saving!

The bank of mum and dad has to stop at some point.

I'm plotting my retirement now, head down, work hard and save!



Years ago you didn't need a deposit and the average multiple of earnings needed for a mortgage now compared to 30 years ago aren't even close, along with debt such as credit cards and car repayments that just didn't exist two generations ago
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:18:41 PM
My first house required a deposit, albeit it was 5%, that was 24 years ago..

The problem with society today is kids want things right away, the new car, having 2 cars at that, the holidays and city breaks, the 3 grand sofas and top end kitchens and appliances 70" tv and the list goes on.

Why was it ok for the 2 generations ago people to settle for and not todays?!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on December 29, 2023, 07:30:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:18:41 PMMy first house required a deposit, albeit it was 5%, that was 24 years ago..

The problem with society today is kids want things right away, the new car, having 2 cars at that, the holidays and city breaks, the 3 grand sofas and top end kitchens and appliances 70" tv and the list goes on.

Why was it ok for the 2 generations ago people to settle for and not todays?!

This is f**king bollocks. Same shite about lattes and Netflix subscriptions. My Da's first house was £800. He earned £250 a year roughly. Now a house is £200k (here anyway more in the south and GB). Good wage out of college is £25k maybe £30k. Saving 20k for a deposit would take years while trying to live, pay rent etc.
The problem with society is that people see housing as an investment and not a human right.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on December 29, 2023, 07:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:18:41 PMMy first house required a deposit, albeit it was 5%, that was 24 years ago..

The problem with society today is kids want things right away, the new car, having 2 cars at that, the holidays and city breaks, the 3 grand sofas and top end kitchens and appliances 70" tv and the list goes on.

Why was it ok for the 2 generations ago people to settle for and not todays?!

Drive past any school now and the standard of cars with R plates (some even with personal reg) tells its own storey.

Whether I can afford it or not I will not be buying my youngster a car when they are 17.

They will get insured on my banger.

At least this way when ever they get their own first car properly they will at least appreciate it as it will be on the back of their own graft.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 07:37:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:18:41 PMMy first house required a deposit, albeit it was 5%, that was 24 years ago..

The problem with society today is kids want things right away, the new car, having 2 cars at that, the holidays and city breaks, the 3 grand sofas and top end kitchens and appliances 70" tv and the list goes on.

Why was it ok for the 2 generations ago people to settle for and not todays?!
A lot of stuff is bought on credit and savings levels are much lower than they used to be. That is not ideal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:54:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 07:37:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:18:41 PMMy first house required a deposit, albeit it was 5%, that was 24 years ago..

The problem with society today is kids want things right away, the new car, having 2 cars at that, the holidays and city breaks, the 3 grand sofas and top end kitchens and appliances 70" tv and the list goes on.

Why was it ok for the 2 generations ago people to settle for and not todays?!
A lot of stuff is bought on credit and savings levels are much lower than they used to be. That is not ideal.

That's on them, I saved for a year nearly every penny and worked 7 days a week leading up to getting a deposit for a house.

I'll help as much as I can, but, there is a limit. Some selfishness too I suppose, you get one crack at this life, enjoy the fruits of your labour and if there's any left over they can have it.

I'll be hopeful that they'll get decent jobs, meet someone and then they'll follow the blueprint, instead of expecting things to just land on their lap.

Social media is putting a serious amount of people in debt
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on December 29, 2023, 08:15:20 PM
Send yer kids to the 26 after the next Election ;)

https://www.sinnfein.ie/housing-4
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 29, 2023, 09:12:52 PM
Definitely a balance to be achieved. Like MR I'll help where I can but I'm not planning to work myself into the grave to set up the weans when they have 40 to 50 years of life ahead of them to get what they need.

Quote from: LC on December 29, 2023, 07:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:18:41 PMMy first house required a deposit, albeit it was 5%, that was 24 years ago..

The problem with society today is kids want things right away, the new car, having 2 cars at that, the holidays and city breaks, the 3 grand sofas and top end kitchens and appliances 70" tv and the list goes on.

Why was it ok for the 2 generations ago people to settle for and not todays?!

Drive past any school now and the standard of cars with R plates (some even with personal reg) tells its own storey.

Whether I can afford it or not I will not be buying my youngster a car when they are 17.

They will get insured on my banger.

At least this way when ever they get their own first car properly they will at least appreciate it as it will be on the back of their own graft.
Most of my middle son's mates are driving Golfs and A-Class Mercs. One of them has a brand new Focus. Most of the parents are business owners and no doubt working them through the books.

He will be doing the test in a few months and he'll either get insured on his brothers 1.1L Fiesta or we'll buy him something of similar quality, but it won't be a pile of money.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 29, 2023, 11:23:58 PM
Have you noticed how every single thing you go to buy online has an option for finance? Even stuff at £100 or less. Why pay £100 when you can pay £33 a month for 3months on Klarna etc etc.
If things are so tight that you can't afford to spend £100 on something you really should wait until you can.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on December 29, 2023, 11:51:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:54:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 07:37:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:18:41 PMMy first house required a deposit, albeit it was 5%, that was 24 years ago..

The problem with society today is kids want things right away, the new car, having 2 cars at that, the holidays and city breaks, the 3 grand sofas and top end kitchens and appliances 70" tv and the list goes on.

Why was it ok for the 2 generations ago people to settle for and not todays?!
A lot of stuff is bought on credit and savings levels are much lower than they used to be. That is not ideal.

That's on them, I saved for a year nearly every penny and worked 7 days a week leading up to getting a deposit for a house.

I'll help as much as I can, but, there is a limit. Some selfishness too I suppose, you get one crack at this life, enjoy the fruits of your labour and if there's any left over they can have it.

I'll be hopeful that they'll get decent jobs, meet someone and then they'll follow the blueprint, instead of expecting things to just land on their lap.

Social media is putting a serious amount of people in debt

Should parents not  be partly to blame for raising  kids who just want want want?

Two families near us : both sets of kids around same ages .  One set demanded/got  everything they wanted growing up,  now have no idea the value of money. Want want want all the time. If they got a fiver or 1000 quid , it'd be gone  in hours.  They work but spend everything they earn , always on the borrow , never paying back or. COntribute. Never save even  though big events coming up.  They know parents  will bail them out

Other set ,  the opposite. Knew from early age  they wouldn't get everything they want. Made to save up  or wait for things.  All sensible with money , although not  tight arses either  with it. They know the value of it. Most importantly they know if they blow all their money ,  they won't get more handed to them. 

The reason for  the 4 spoilt kids in one house , is  clearly their upbringing/parenting
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2023, 12:15:24 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 29, 2023, 11:51:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:54:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 29, 2023, 07:37:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2023, 07:18:41 PMMy first house required a deposit, albeit it was 5%, that was 24 years ago..

The problem with society today is kids want things right away, the new car, having 2 cars at that, the holidays and city breaks, the 3 grand sofas and top end kitchens and appliances 70" tv and the list goes on.

Why was it ok for the 2 generations ago people to settle for and not todays?!
A lot of stuff is bought on credit and savings levels are much lower than they used to be. That is not ideal.

That's on them, I saved for a year nearly every penny and worked 7 days a week leading up to getting a deposit for a house.

I'll help as much as I can, but, there is a limit. Some selfishness too I suppose, you get one crack at this life, enjoy the fruits of your labour and if there's any left over they can have it.

I'll be hopeful that they'll get decent jobs, meet someone and then they'll follow the blueprint, instead of expecting things to just land on their lap.

Social media is putting a serious amount of people in debt

Should parents not  be partly to blame for raising  kids who just want want want?

Two families near us : both sets of kids around same ages .  One set demanded/got  everything they wanted growing up,  now have no idea the value of money. Want want want all the time. If they got a fiver or 1000 quid , it'd be gone  in hours.  They work but spend everything they earn , always on the borrow , never paying back or. COntribute. Never save even  though big events coming up.  They know parents  will bail them out

Other set ,  the opposite. Knew from early age  they wouldn't get everything they want. Made to save up  or wait for things.  All sensible with money , although not  tight arses either  with it. They know the value of it. Most importantly they know if they blow all their money ,  they won't get more handed to them. 

The reason for  the 4 spoilt kids in one house , is  clearly their upbringing/parenting

Yeah parents are to blame for large parts but that genie has left the bottle and no way is it going back in.

As Tony says, there's a balance to be made, I'll not be buying cars that's for sure.

kids need to know the worth of money. God help them lol
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 30, 2023, 02:22:29 PM
Alot of parents are to blame because that's the way they were brought up themselves.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2023, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 30, 2023, 02:22:29 PMAlot of parents are to blame because that's the way they were brought up themselves.

Were you brought up with everything handed to ya?

I don't know anyone who was gifted stuff the way they are now.

I think parents (myself included in parts) is giving them a 'better' quality of life to the hardworking lives I grew up with.

Striking the balance is the key
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on December 30, 2023, 03:05:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2023, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 30, 2023, 02:22:29 PMAlot of parents are to blame because that's the way they were brought up themselves.

Were you brought up with everything handed to ya?

I don't know anyone who was gifted stuff the way they are now.

I think parents (myself included in parts) is giving them a 'better' quality of life to the hardworking lives I grew up with.

Striking the balance is the key

I think a lot of parents  relent very easily  these days.  The amount of stuff kids get from such   a young age is mad.  Whether the parents can afford  it or not. 

Some parents we know seem to  have this idea that they're looked upon  as failures  as parents if they don't get  their kids the latest toys, gadgets , phones etc.  They need to learn to say no , because  they're really not doing their kids any  favours giving them everything they want
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Hound on December 30, 2023, 08:54:02 PM
Bought my son a car.
Doesn't half pay off around this time of year when he's my readymade taxi man!
Thankfully he's more into sport and fitness than boozing
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2024, 05:38:11 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hefty-bill-for-sinn-feins-gerry-kelly-as-judge-throws-out-scandalous-attempt-to-sue-journalist-malachi-odoherty/a2066617518.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Orior on January 08, 2024, 07:44:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2024, 05:38:11 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hefty-bill-for-sinn-feins-gerry-kelly-as-judge-throws-out-scandalous-attempt-to-sue-journalist-malachi-odoherty/a2066617518.html

Sounds like we'll have to listen to even more shite on Nolan from Malachi (the celeverest man ever from the Falls Road, according to himself). I'd like to see a debate between Malachi, RDE and Squinter of Andytown news fame.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 08, 2024, 07:59:18 PM
no sympathy for gerry kelly
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 08, 2024, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 08, 2024, 07:59:18 PMno sympathy for gerry kelly

None. SF want to shut down debate by suing anyone who says something negative about them. Worrying.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Main Street on January 08, 2024, 09:31:03 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 08, 2024, 07:44:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2024, 05:38:11 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hefty-bill-for-sinn-feins-gerry-kelly-as-judge-throws-out-scandalous-attempt-to-sue-journalist-malachi-odoherty/a2066617518.html

Sounds like we'll have to listen to even more shite on Nolan from Malachi (the celeverest man ever from the Falls Road, according to himself). I'd like to see a debate between Malachi, RDE and Squinter of Andytown news fame.
9pm RTE news had him pegged on screen as Dr.Malachai, he probably insisted on it ;D   
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2024, 01:08:33 AM
Seemed to have got into a awful habit of suing everyone these days, need a tougher skin than that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 09, 2024, 08:07:48 AM
Some of the lawsuits are fair in that media have a responsibility to be neutral in and my opinion there is quite a lot of them that are in the pocket of the establishment. We have had this debate before. However this lawsuit for defamation by Kelly was never going to succeed as he had no chance to prove one of the important tiers of defamation - that his good character had been demeaned. Hard to do that in court when you've been convicted previously of bombing. Bit of an own goal by SF this one.

However that does not excuse what was a blatant lie by the journalist involved.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2024, 08:37:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2024, 08:07:48 AMSome of the lawsuits are fair in that media have a responsibility to be neutral in and my opinion there is quite a lot of them that are in the pocket of the establishment. We have had this debate before. However this lawsuit for defamation by Kelly was never going to succeed as he had no chance to prove one of the important tiers of defamation - that his good character had been demeaned. Hard to do that in court when you've been convicted previously of bombing. Bit of an own goal by SF this one.

However that does not excuse what was a blatant lie by the journalist involved.

In that it was Kelly who fired the shot? Is that what you mean?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on January 09, 2024, 09:06:32 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2024, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 08, 2024, 07:59:18 PMno sympathy for gerry kelly

None. SF want to shut down debate by suing anyone who says something negative about them. Worrying.

Except Malachi wasn't engaging in any sort of "debate". What he did do was publicly accuse Gerry Kelly of being guilty of something a court had already found him not guilty of.

I've asked you before and I'll ask you again (because you still haven't managed to provide an answer): why is it "worrying" that SF figures might want to defend themselves when they believe they have been defamed, but not when other political figures do the same? FF in particular have a long history of elected reps taking defamation cases and you have yet to comment on those, funnily. Why is that?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on January 09, 2024, 09:10:35 AM
Does no harm for these establishment journo's to have to think twice before publishing these hit job stories on SF.

FF/FG using their media mates to try and cloud the issues prior to an election.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2024, 09:33:53 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2024, 09:10:35 AMDoes no harm for these establishment journo's to have to think twice before publishing these hit job stories on SF.

FF/FG using their media mates to try and cloud the issues prior to an election.

"The establishment"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on January 09, 2024, 09:38:10 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2024, 01:08:33 AMSeemed to have got into a awful habit of suing everyone these days, need a tougher skin than that.

They seem to have overtaken the DUP with all the suing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 09, 2024, 09:40:55 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2024, 08:37:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2024, 08:07:48 AMSome of the lawsuits are fair in that media have a responsibility to be neutral in and my opinion there is quite a lot of them that are in the pocket of the establishment. We have had this debate before. However this lawsuit for defamation by Kelly was never going to succeed as he had no chance to prove one of the important tiers of defamation - that his good character had been demeaned. Hard to do that in court when you've been convicted previously of bombing. Bit of an own goal by SF this one.

However that does not excuse what was a blatant lie by the journalist involved.

In that it was Kelly who fired the shot? Is that what you mean?


Was Kelly found guilty of shooting someone in the head?

Do you think people should be allowed to go around accusing people of x,y and z without proof just because they don't like them or their politics? Do you not think that such behaviour can be weaponised to knock down your political opponents by a whole manner of people?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 09, 2024, 09:43:38 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2024, 09:33:53 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2024, 09:10:35 AMDoes no harm for these establishment journo's to have to think twice before publishing these hit job stories on SF.

FF/FG using their media mates to try and cloud the issues prior to an election.

"The establishment"


I will give you an example. RTE.

RTE are in need of a massive bail out from Government. Do you think as a result they will aggressively go after the same people in the same way as they will go after the opposition? You'd have to be pretty naive to think they will.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2024, 09:43:49 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2024, 09:40:55 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2024, 08:37:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2024, 08:07:48 AMSome of the lawsuits are fair in that media have a responsibility to be neutral in and my opinion there is quite a lot of them that are in the pocket of the establishment. We have had this debate before. However this lawsuit for defamation by Kelly was never going to succeed as he had no chance to prove one of the important tiers of defamation - that his good character had been demeaned. Hard to do that in court when you've been convicted previously of bombing. Bit of an own goal by SF this one.

However that does not excuse what was a blatant lie by the journalist involved.

In that it was Kelly who fired the shot? Is that what you mean?


Was Kelly found guilty of shooting someone in the head?

Do you think people should be allowed to go around accusing people of x,y and z without proof just because they don't like them or their politics? Do you not think that such behaviour can be weaponised to knock down your political opponents by a whole manner of people?

Just wondering which part you thought was "blatant lie" that's all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2024, 09:46:09 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2024, 09:43:38 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2024, 09:33:53 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 09, 2024, 09:10:35 AMDoes no harm for these establishment journo's to have to think twice before publishing these hit job stories on SF.

FF/FG using their media mates to try and cloud the issues prior to an election.

"The establishment"


I will give you an example. RTE.

RTE are in need of a massive bail out from Government. Do you think as a result they will aggressively go after the same people in the same way as they will go after the opposition? You'd have to be pretty naive to think they will.

But only Mary Lou is suing RTE. There is a plethora of other cases. Are they all "the establishment"?

And they are suing the induvials in many cases and not the publications. But again "the establishment"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2024, 10:02:01 AM
Seems the lads have been instructed to use the "attack is the best form of defence" strategy ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:15:58 PM
It's very interesting that SF and DUP have no problems working together when it comes to dishing out money to their pet projects (at the expense of worthwhile charities). What a shower.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on January 09, 2024, 01:22:20 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:15:58 PMIt's very interesting that SF and DUP have no problems working together when it comes to dishing out money to their pet projects (at the expense of worthwhile charities). What a shower.
And then buckle when they come under a bit of heat. It'll be the same hot air and lack of decision making when Stormont returns.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on January 09, 2024, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:15:58 PMIt's very interesting that SF and DUP have no problems working together when it comes to dishing out money to their pet projects (at the expense of worthwhile charities). What a shower.
And it was no surprise the organisations SF were intending to give hundreds of grand to instead of the disabled charity, the Hargeys in Market Development Assoc & LORAG. Basically two organisations run by SF, none of this is new though. Been going on for years
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2024, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:15:58 PMIt's very interesting that SF and DUP have no problems working together when it comes to dishing out money to their pet projects (at the expense of worthwhile charities). What a shower.
And it was no surprise the organisations SF were intending to give hundreds of grand to instead of the disabled charity, the Hargeys in Market Development Assoc & LORAG. Basically two organisations run by SF, none of this is new though. Been going on for years

No surprise at all.

Are there any dyed in the wool SF supporters on this board that would be willing to offer their opinion on this? Aren't you sickened by it?

p.s. I'm not SDLP or Alliance or for any particular party really. I just can't get my head around how people just accept this type of thing from a party they vote for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2024, 01:43:31 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2024, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:15:58 PMIt's very interesting that SF and DUP have no problems working together when it comes to dishing out money to their pet projects (at the expense of worthwhile charities). What a shower.
And it was no surprise the organisations SF were intending to give hundreds of grand to instead of the disabled charity, the Hargeys in Market Development Assoc & LORAG. Basically two organisations run by SF, none of this is new though. Been going on for years

No surprise at all.

Are there any dyed in the wool SF supporters on this board that would be willing to offer their opinion on this? Aren't you sickened by it?

p.s. I'm not SDLP or Alliance or for any particular party really. I just can't get my head around how people just accept this type of thing from a party they vote for.

A decision taken away from the scrutiny of council then presented to be ratified. They have zero respect for democracy. An absolute carve up to shore up votes and support.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2024, 01:43:31 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 09, 2024, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:15:58 PMIt's very interesting that SF and DUP have no problems working together when it comes to dishing out money to their pet projects (at the expense of worthwhile charities). What a shower.
And it was no surprise the organisations SF were intending to give hundreds of grand to instead of the disabled charity, the Hargeys in Market Development Assoc & LORAG. Basically two organisations run by SF, none of this is new though. Been going on for years

No surprise at all.

Are there any dyed in the wool SF supporters on this board that would be willing to offer their opinion on this? Aren't you sickened by it?

p.s. I'm not SDLP or Alliance or for any particular party really. I just can't get my head around how people just accept this type of thing from a party they vote for.

A decision taken away from the scrutiny of council then presented to be ratified. They have zero respect for democracy. An absolute carve up to shore up votes and support.


If there was money sloshing about that would be one thing but taking money off a charity for pet projects shows a level of cynicism off the charts.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 09, 2024, 01:56:37 PM
sinn fein don't like being criticised
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 09, 2024, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 09, 2024, 01:15:58 PMIt's very interesting that SF and DUP have no problems working together when it comes to dishing out money to their pet projects (at the expense of worthwhile charities). What a shower.

It's a big pantomime - there's a you scratch my back I scratch yours mantra.

BTW criticism and saying you shot someone are a bit different. I don't see why anyone would have any problem with a law suit when you are faced with that other than because they want to have a go.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 09, 2024, 02:58:50 PM
a pantomine that crawley and nolan continue to promote.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2024, 03:11:33 PM
In relation to Kelly, was it not the prison officer was adamant it was him and the court found it was hard to prove it was him, in all the confusion, not that he hadn't done it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2024, 03:18:32 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2024, 03:11:33 PMIn relation to Kelly, was it not the prison officer was adamant it was him and the court found it was hard to prove it was him, in all the confusion, not that he hadn't done it?

AFAIK the Prison Officer said he did it. Kelly admitted in his book to threatening the Prison Officer whilst looking down the sight of a gun.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on January 09, 2024, 04:23:48 PM
Kelly was aquitted of shooting the PO. So O'Doherty who has made a long career out of sticking the boot into his own community whatever the political party they represent or vote for knew exactly what he was doing. That said Gerry Kelly given his background should have known that this was going to be tough to win. That said would any of us leave such an accusation unchallenged? The media are bleating about SF suing them, simple answer, check your facts don't print anything that you can't stand over. By the way SF are not the only party whose members sue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on January 09, 2024, 04:30:15 PM
You can't just going round saying things like that - it's not like he just called him an innocuous name. Whether there be truth or not I don't know but they're serious accusations and serious people wouldn't just throw that about. Tbh if you want to be taken seriously as a "commentator" or whatever that boy is you'd not be coming out with stuff like this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 10, 2024, 11:41:41 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/)

Will Gerry pay this? Or will it come out of the SF coffers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 10, 2024, 11:46:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 10, 2024, 11:41:41 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/)

Will Gerry pay this? Or will it come out of the SF coffers?

(https://www.leftovercurrency.com/app/uploads/2016/11/northern-bank-10-pounds-banknote-series-2004-obverse-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 10, 2024, 11:48:57 AM
 ;D  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on January 10, 2024, 01:33:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2024, 11:46:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 10, 2024, 11:41:41 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/)

Will Gerry pay this? Or will it come out of the SF coffers?

(https://www.leftovercurrency.com/app/uploads/2016/11/northern-bank-10-pounds-banknote-series-2004-obverse-1.jpg)

Hopefully Ruth Dudley Edwards will be paying this bill.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 10, 2024, 01:54:47 PM
gerry kelly wont starve to death he wont worry about food hes another sinn fein gravy trainer
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on January 10, 2024, 02:05:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2024, 11:46:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 10, 2024, 11:41:41 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/)

Will Gerry pay this? Or will it come out of the SF coffers?

(https://www.leftovercurrency.com/app/uploads/2016/11/northern-bank-10-pounds-banknote-series-2004-obverse-1.jpg)

careful now you might get sued!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 10, 2024, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: clarshack on January 10, 2024, 02:05:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2024, 11:46:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 10, 2024, 11:41:41 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/)

Will Gerry pay this? Or will it come out of the SF coffers?

(https://www.leftovercurrency.com/app/uploads/2016/11/northern-bank-10-pounds-banknote-series-2004-obverse-1.jpg)

careful now you might get sued!

I accidentally posted on this thread instead of the banknote collectors forum, and all of you drew conclusions from this.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 10, 2024, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2024, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: clarshack on January 10, 2024, 02:05:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2024, 11:46:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 10, 2024, 11:41:41 AMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/01/10/gerry-kelly-facing-legal-bill-of-at-least-150000-after-frivolous-libel-action/)

Will Gerry pay this? Or will it come out of the SF coffers?

(https://www.leftovercurrency.com/app/uploads/2016/11/northern-bank-10-pounds-banknote-series-2004-obverse-1.jpg)

careful now you might get sued!

I accidentally posted on this thread instead of the banknote collectors forum, and all of you drew conclusions from this.

Your PMs will be filled up now if it anything like mine when I post about SF.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 14, 2024, 01:15:47 AM
sinn fein went to a foreign country to speak about a war foreign war.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on January 14, 2024, 12:32:33 PM
Does anyone really think there's anything from the Northern Bank left? They pull off plenty of other heists of public money that pay for these things now, just covering it up better
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2024, 12:33:55 PM
Quote from: Brendan on January 14, 2024, 12:32:33 PMDoes anyone really think there's anything from the Northern Bank left? They pull off plenty of other heists of public money that pay for these things now, just covering it up better

Like the notes they stole?

They changed them and it became a non currency
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on January 22, 2024, 01:08:59 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68054755

Interesting move by SF to run Gildernew in the EU Elections in June.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2024, 09:57:29 PM
Probably hoping to take 2 seats in Midlands/North/West by taking Mings seat.

Ming the invisible!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThomasMullan on January 23, 2024, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2024, 09:57:29 PMProbably hoping to take 2 seats in Midlands/North/West by taking Mings seat.

Ming the invisible!

The competition must be bad if people opt to send that useless stoner to Europe to represent them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on January 25, 2024, 10:33:27 AM
Sinn Féin to travel to Washington for St. Patrick's Day 2024. "We will use the trip to push for peace".
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on January 25, 2024, 10:33:27 AMSinn Féin to travel to Washington for St. Patrick's Day 2024. "We will use the trip to push for peace".
Should be boycotting it. Although that probably wouldn't even be noticed in America.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 25, 2024, 11:00:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on January 25, 2024, 10:33:27 AMSinn Féin to travel to Washington for St. Patrick's Day 2024. "We will use the trip to push for peace".
Should be boycotting it. Although that probably wouldn't even be noticed in America.

No doubt I am SF biggest critic on here but this is the right decision, they have to go. As should all parties. America is integral to the Irish economy and while I do not condone in any way what the US is doing in conjunction with Israel you have to recognise that there is a bigger picture. Imagine if American companies pulled out of Ireland?

Politics is sometimes about being a grown up. If SF have any designs on being the party of government then you cannot snub America or the EU or Britain. They are huge global economies with a massive impact on Ireland. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ThomasMullan on January 25, 2024, 11:43:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2024, 11:00:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on January 25, 2024, 10:33:27 AMSinn Féin to travel to Washington for St. Patrick's Day 2024. "We will use the trip to push for peace".
Should be boycotting it. Although that probably wouldn't even be noticed in America.

No doubt I am SF biggest critic on here but this is the right decision, they have to go. As should all parties. America is integral to the Irish economy and while I do not condone in any way what the US is doing in conjunction with Israel you have to recognise that there is a bigger picture. Imagine if American companies pulled out of Ireland?

Politics is sometimes about being a grown up. If SF have any designs on being the party of government then you cannot snub America or the EU or Britain. They are huge global economies with a massive impact on Ireland. 

Anyone that thinks Ireland's foreign policy will change much under SF is in for a big disappointment.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2024, 12:13:46 PM
Realpolitik I think it's called.
Others might say grown up politics...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on January 25, 2024, 12:36:17 PM
Cynical as it gets. There's money to be made from right wing Israel supporting Irish-America. Ironically using UK law to raise those funds since Irish law correctly forbids foreign donations influencing Irish politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 01:00:04 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 25, 2024, 11:43:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2024, 11:00:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on January 25, 2024, 10:33:27 AMSinn Féin to travel to Washington for St. Patrick's Day 2024. "We will use the trip to push for peace".
Should be boycotting it. Although that probably wouldn't even be noticed in America.

No doubt I am SF biggest critic on here but this is the right decision, they have to go. As should all parties. America is integral to the Irish economy and while I do not condone in any way what the US is doing in conjunction with Israel you have to recognise that there is a bigger picture. Imagine if American companies pulled out of Ireland?

Politics is sometimes about being a grown up. If SF have any designs on being the party of government then you cannot snub America or the EU or Britain. They are huge global economies with a massive impact on Ireland. 

Anyone that thinks Ireland's foreign policy will change much under SF is in for a big disappointment.


If they do get in they'll be under serious pressure to be strong on condemning Israel. (Well depending on whether it's even a hot topic by the time theres an election.) Vast majority of SF support will be massively pro Palestine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on January 25, 2024, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 01:00:04 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 25, 2024, 11:43:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2024, 11:00:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on January 25, 2024, 10:33:27 AMSinn Féin to travel to Washington for St. Patrick's Day 2024. "We will use the trip to push for peace".
Should be boycotting it. Although that probably wouldn't even be noticed in America.

No doubt I am SF biggest critic on here but this is the right decision, they have to go. As should all parties. America is integral to the Irish economy and while I do not condone in any way what the US is doing in conjunction with Israel you have to recognise that there is a bigger picture. Imagine if American companies pulled out of Ireland?

Politics is sometimes about being a grown up. If SF have any designs on being the party of government then you cannot snub America or the EU or Britain. They are huge global economies with a massive impact on Ireland. 

Anyone that thinks Ireland's foreign policy will change much under SF is in for a big disappointment.


If they do get in they'll be under serious pressure to be strong on condemning Israel. (Well depending on whether it's even a hot topic by the time theres an election.) Vast majority of SF support will be massively pro Palestine.
Would it not be fair to say that the vast majority of the Irish public is massively pro-Palestine?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2024, 04:13:15 PM
We're against mass murder bombing and our sympathies would be definitely with the Palestinians who are suffering a rerun of what happened here in the 16th and 17th Centuries.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 05:25:56 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 25, 2024, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 01:00:04 PM
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 25, 2024, 11:43:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2024, 11:00:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2024, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on January 25, 2024, 10:33:27 AMSinn Féin to travel to Washington for St. Patrick's Day 2024. "We will use the trip to push for peace".
Should be boycotting it. Although that probably wouldn't even be noticed in America.

No doubt I am SF biggest critic on here but this is the right decision, they have to go. As should all parties. America is integral to the Irish economy and while I do not condone in any way what the US is doing in conjunction with Israel you have to recognise that there is a bigger picture. Imagine if American companies pulled out of Ireland?

Politics is sometimes about being a grown up. If SF have any designs on being the party of government then you cannot snub America or the EU or Britain. They are huge global economies with a massive impact on Ireland. 

Anyone that thinks Ireland's foreign policy will change much under SF is in for a big disappointment.


If they do get in they'll be under serious pressure to be strong on condemning Israel. (Well depending on whether it's even a hot topic by the time theres an election.) Vast majority of SF support will be massively pro Palestine.
Would it not be fair to say that the vast majority of the Irish public is massively pro-Palestine?
Absolutely bar the odd clown you see online. SF unlike the other parties have always been strongly pro-Palestine so it'd be a slap in the face for voters if they reneged on that if they get in.

Think it's a disgrace the govt voted against backing SA up in their court case.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on January 28, 2024, 09:34:08 AM
Little drop in support for SF in the latest poll. Wonder why...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 28, 2024, 10:42:47 AM
Are people waking up to what sinn fein are all about
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on January 28, 2024, 11:10:52 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 28, 2024, 10:42:47 AMAre people waking up to what sinn fein are all about
Populism? Maybe they'll wake up to that when The Shinners change their stance on going to the white house because that's the popular opinion...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on January 28, 2024, 11:29:43 AM
Quote from: Brendan on January 28, 2024, 11:10:52 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 28, 2024, 10:42:47 AMAre people waking up to what sinn fein are all about
Populism? Maybe they'll wake up to that when The Shinners change their stance on going to the white house because that's the popular opinion...

Boycotting meetings and throwing out ambassadors is the stuff of a student debate, not of a serious government.
However, many SF supporters have the student debate frame of mind and will so will drift off to other parties with similar hurler on the ditch approaches.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on January 28, 2024, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 28, 2024, 11:29:43 AM
Quote from: Brendan on January 28, 2024, 11:10:52 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 28, 2024, 10:42:47 AMAre people waking up to what sinn fein are all about
Populism? Maybe they'll wake up to that when The Shinners change their stance on going to the white house because that's the popular opinion...

Boycotting meetings and throwing out ambassadors is the stuff of a student debate, not of a serious government.
However, many SF supporters have the student debate frame of mind and will so will drift off to other parties with similar hurler on the ditch approaches.

That's the level of sinn fein anyway as demonstrated by their record in government in the 6 counties
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 28, 2024, 12:09:07 PM
I think people have seen sinn fein waving palestine flags and are like these  bunch only care about palestine  i am not voting for that lot.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on January 28, 2024, 12:23:19 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 28, 2024, 10:42:47 AMAre people waking up to what sinn fein are all about

And what are SF about?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2024, 04:54:02 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-td-sean-crowe-objects-to-plans-for-82-homes-in-his-dublin-constituency/a1668486654.html

Amazing isn't it

Objections to housing development coming from people who lecture everyone else about not having the right to veto who lives in their neighborhood.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2024, 05:02:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2024, 04:54:02 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-td-sean-crowe-objects-to-plans-for-82-homes-in-his-dublin-constituency/a1668486654.html

Amazing isn't it

Objections to housing development coming from people who lecture everyone else about not having the right to veto who lives in their neighborhood.

you should have read the article before posting
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2024, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2024, 05:02:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2024, 04:54:02 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-td-sean-crowe-objects-to-plans-for-82-homes-in-his-dublin-constituency/a1668486654.html

Amazing isn't it

Objections to housing development coming from people who lecture everyone else about not having the right to veto who lives in their neighborhood.

you should have read the article before posting

I did

Here's what Jennifer Carroll MacNeil had to say about his objection

 "Why put in objections that aren't necessary; the council is well able to work out tweaks," she said. "Putting in submissions that look like planning objections and smell like planning objections and saying they're not really is playing both sides of the argument.

Kinda reminds me of the time Neale Richmond objected to a traveller halting site in his constituency due to the topography

FFS-couldn't make this stuff up
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2024, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2024, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2024, 05:02:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2024, 04:54:02 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-td-sean-crowe-objects-to-plans-for-82-homes-in-his-dublin-constituency/a1668486654.html

Amazing isn't it

Objections to housing development coming from people who lecture everyone else about not having the right to veto who lives in their neighborhood.

you should have read the article before posting

I did

Here's what Jennifer Carroll MacNeil had to say about his objection

 "Why put in objections that aren't necessary; the council is well able to work out tweaks," she said. "Putting in submissions that look like planning objections and smell like planning objections and saying they're not really is playing both sides of the argument.

Kinda reminds me of the time Neale Richmond objected to a traveller halting site in his constituency due to the topography

FFS-couldn't make this stuff up

firstly, it was not an objection... the title of the article is incorrect...who did formally object? surely is subjective, what is and isn't necessary or is Jennifer (FG) the authority on this?

you might check 'X' and see the exchanges there too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on January 28, 2024, 06:17:52 PM
champagne socialists sinn fein


sinn fein have no time for those they see as beneath them but will come along like cult members to knock your door for votes.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2024, 06:20:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2024, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2024, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2024, 05:02:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2024, 04:54:02 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-td-sean-crowe-objects-to-plans-for-82-homes-in-his-dublin-constituency/a1668486654.html

Amazing isn't it

Objections to housing development coming from people who lecture everyone else about not having the right to veto who lives in their neighborhood.

you should have read the article before posting

I did

Here's what Jennifer Carroll MacNeil had to say about his objection

 "Why put in objections that aren't necessary; the council is well able to work out tweaks," she said. "Putting in submissions that look like planning objections and smell like planning objections and saying they're not really is playing both sides of the argument.

Kinda reminds me of the time Neale Richmond objected to a traveller halting site in his constituency due to the topography

FFS-couldn't make this stuff up

firstly, it was not an objection... the title of the article is incorrect...who did formally object? surely is subjective, what is and isn't necessary or is Jennifer (FG) the authority on this?

you might check 'X' and see the exchanges there too.


Putting in submissions that look like planning objections and smell like planning objections and saying they're not really is playing both sides of the argument.

Ehhhh.....emmmmm......ehhhhh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2024, 06:24:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2024, 06:20:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2024, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2024, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2024, 05:02:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2024, 04:54:02 PMhttps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-td-sean-crowe-objects-to-plans-for-82-homes-in-his-dublin-constituency/a1668486654.html

Amazing isn't it

Objections to housing development coming from people who lecture everyone else about not having the right to veto who lives in their neighborhood.

you should have read the article before posting

I did

Here's what Jennifer Carroll MacNeil had to say about his objection

 "Why put in objections that aren't necessary; the council is well able to work out tweaks," she said. "Putting in submissions that look like planning objections and smell like planning objections and saying they're not really is playing both sides of the argument.

Kinda reminds me of the time Neale Richmond objected to a traveller halting site in his constituency due to the topography

FFS-couldn't make this stuff up

firstly, it was not an objection... the title of the article is incorrect...who did formally object? surely is subjective, what is and isn't necessary or is Jennifer (FG) the authority on this?

you might check 'X' and see the exchanges there too.


Putting in submissions that look like planning objections and smell like planning objections and saying they're not really is playing both sides of the argument.

Ehhhh.....emmmmm......ehhhhh

no answers..

in Jennifer's opinion even the article from Hugh and jennifer portrays the greens submissions differently...

emmmm...ehhhhh
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on January 29, 2024, 10:51:19 AM
SF are finding out that there is a difference between being a party of protest and a serious political party. They are moving policy by policy to the centre. Exactly were FFG are.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on February 04, 2024, 08:46:29 AM
The evolution of Michelle O'Neill is nothing short of remarkable. She has genuine presence and prowess now in front of camera, her delivery is on point, watching parts of the speech yesterday and today she strikes me as a stateswoman with the potential to achieve even more
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2024, 09:07:48 AM
Quote from: tiempo on February 04, 2024, 08:46:29 AMThe evolution of Michelle O'Neill is nothing short of remarkable. She has genuine presence and prowess now in front of camera, her delivery is on point, watching parts of the speech yesterday and today she strikes me as a stateswoman with the potential to achieve even more

She's very good, though at the start I did struggle to understand what she was saying. She's slowed her speech now, do all Tyronies speak that fast?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 04, 2024, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2024, 09:07:48 AM
Quote from: tiempo on February 04, 2024, 08:46:29 AMThe evolution of Michelle O'Neill is nothing short of remarkable. She has genuine presence and prowess now in front of camera, her delivery is on point, watching parts of the speech yesterday and today she strikes me as a stateswoman with the potential to achieve even more

She's very good, though at the start I did struggle to understand what she was saying She's slowed her speech now, do all Tyronies speak that fast?
That's a lazy exaggeration that jumped out of social media satire. She spoke a bit faster than most at the beginning but she was definitely intelligible.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2024, 09:42:31 AM
She spoke fast and at times I struggled to understand what she was saying! That's not a lazy media exaggeration.

She's able to speak with authority, timing and people sit up and take notice when she speaks.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 04, 2024, 09:45:18 AM
There's not a chance you couldn't understand what she was saying.

There must be a clip out there of one of these unintelligible speeches??
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2024, 09:47:48 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 04, 2024, 09:45:18 AMThere's not a chance you couldn't understand what she was saying.

There must be a clip out there of one of these unintelligible speeches??

Ok, I'm lying. Move on
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 04, 2024, 09:49:09 AM
👍
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 04, 2024, 10:54:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2024, 09:07:48 AM
Quote from: tiempo on February 04, 2024, 08:46:29 AMThe evolution of Michelle O'Neill is nothing short of remarkable. She has genuine presence and prowess now in front of camera, her delivery is on point, watching parts of the speech yesterday and today she strikes me as a stateswoman with the potential to achieve even more

She's very good, though at the start I did struggle to understand what she was saying. She's slowed her speech now, do all Tyronies speak that fast?

Yes, surely you've come across this before as a referee?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 04, 2024, 11:08:39 AM
It's a particularly low bar the electorate have set if stringing a few intelligible sentences together is to be congratulated.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 04, 2024, 11:13:32 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 04, 2024, 11:08:39 AMIt's a particularly low bar the electorate have set if stringing a few intelligible sentences together is to be congratulated.
don't think anyones saying that. But you know that anyway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on February 04, 2024, 11:28:41 AM
Michelle is a bit of nightmare for Unionists. There's a friendliness about her which is engaging, she's competent, calm and good on camera.
She'll come under a level of scrutiny now which she hasn't experienced yet.  Just look at Sturgeon in Scotland - they'll get you eventually.
All the same she was a shrewd pick.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 04, 2024, 11:36:59 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 04, 2024, 11:08:39 AMIt's a particularly low bar the electorate have set if stringing a few intelligible sentences together is to be congratulated.

the electorate in the north vote for a flag ffs

they are more than happy to keep getting funded from britain

the status quo was underpinned yesterday  :(
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 04, 2024, 11:47:53 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 04, 2024, 11:28:41 AMMichelle is a bit of nightmare for Unionists. There's a friendliness about her which is engaging, she's competent, calm and good on camera.
She'll come under a level of scrutiny now which she hasn't experienced yet.  Just look at Sturgeon in Scotland - they'll get you eventually.
All the same she was a shrewd pick.
I definitely had doubts about her when she first took over but she is now coming across really well and has the brains to try and appeal to both sides unlike the bitter f**kers in the DUP. Seems to be a decent amount of respect from reasonable unionists for her although obviously the knuckle draggers that support Allister will never come round.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 04, 2024, 12:17:49 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 04, 2024, 11:08:39 AMIt's a particularly low bar the electorate have set if stringing a few intelligible sentences together is to be congratulated.
If this level of comprehension is within the ballpark of the standard then the speed at which Michelle O'Neill talks is entirely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on February 04, 2024, 03:48:44 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-68196008

Starting to get their ducks lined up in a row already.

If nothing really improves (which is highly likely) they can all stand back and point the finger as Westminster and say it is all there fault because they did not pony up the £££.  Easier to do and less damaging when it comes to elections instead of having to make hard calls when it comes to generating revenue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on February 04, 2024, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: LC on February 04, 2024, 03:48:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-68196008

Starting to get their ducks lined up in a row already.

If nothing really improves (which is highly likely) they can all stand back and point the finger as Westminster and say it is all there fault because they did not pony up the £££.  Easier to do and less damaging when it comes to elections instead of having to make hard calls when it comes to generating revenue.

They have been doing that for years in fairness, it wouldn't be anything new. None of them willing to make difficult decisions and will leave the difficult decisions in Health to Swann
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2024, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 04, 2024, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: LC on February 04, 2024, 03:48:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-68196008

Starting to get their ducks lined up in a row already.

If nothing really improves (which is highly likely) they can all stand back and point the finger as Westminster and say it is all there fault because they did not pony up the £££.  Easier to do and less damaging when it comes to elections instead of having to make hard calls when it comes to generating revenue.

They have been doing that for years in fairness, it wouldn't be anything new. None of them willing to make difficult decisions and will leave the difficult decisions in Health to Swann

Problem is if there is money raising powers like water charges and perscription charges, there'll be uproar.

So if a politician does this, people will go mad.

Same as closing hospitals etc. It's common sense but not a vote winner. In fairness, NHS needs a total revamp, not just closing a few hospitals. A new health service needs to be planned for.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 04, 2024, 09:19:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2024, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 04, 2024, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: LC on February 04, 2024, 03:48:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-68196008

Starting to get their ducks lined up in a row already.

If nothing really improves (which is highly likely) they can all stand back and point the finger as Westminster and say it is all there fault because they did not pony up the £££.  Easier to do and less damaging when it comes to elections instead of having to make hard calls when it comes to generating revenue.

They have been doing that for years in fairness, it wouldn't be anything new. None of them willing to make difficult decisions and will leave the difficult decisions in Health to Swann

Problem is if there is money raising powers like water charges and perscription charges, there'll be uproar.

So if a politician does this, people will go mad.

Same as closing hospitals etc. It's common sense but not a vote winner. In fairness, NHS needs a total revamp, not just closing a few hospitals. A new health service needs to be planned for.

Is it more important for everyone to have free prescriptions or for ambulances to come when you are seriously ill?

Water charges on the meter are fine, if you waste it then you pay for it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 04, 2024, 09:43:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2024, 09:19:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2024, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 04, 2024, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: LC on February 04, 2024, 03:48:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-68196008

Starting to get their ducks lined up in a row already.

If nothing really improves (which is highly likely) they can all stand back and point the finger as Westminster and say it is all there fault because they did not pony up the £££.  Easier to do and less damaging when it comes to elections instead of having to make hard calls when it comes to generating revenue.

They have been doing that for years in fairness, it wouldn't be anything new. None of them willing to make difficult decisions and will leave the difficult decisions in Health to Swann

Problem is if there is money raising powers like water charges and perscription charges, there'll be uproar.

So if a politician does this, people will go mad.

Same as closing hospitals etc. It's common sense but not a vote winner. In fairness, NHS needs a total revamp, not just closing a few hospitals. A new health service needs to be planned for.

Is it more important for everyone to have free prescriptions or for ambulances to come when you are seriously ill?

Water charges on the meter are fine, if you waste it then you pay for it.
Free prescriptions were a load of balls. If people can afford to pay for an essential service which generates revenue to fund another essential service, or offset the cost for those who cant, then they should do so. Politicians here are cowards and will retreat to the parish pump the instant there is a hard decision needed.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 04, 2024, 09:52:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2024, 09:19:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2024, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 04, 2024, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: LC on February 04, 2024, 03:48:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-68196008

Starting to get their ducks lined up in a row already.

If nothing really improves (which is highly likely) they can all stand back and point the finger as Westminster and say it is all there fault because they did not pony up the £££.  Easier to do and less damaging when it comes to elections instead of having to make hard calls when it comes to generating revenue.

They have been doing that for years in fairness, it wouldn't be anything new. None of them willing to make difficult decisions and will leave the difficult decisions in Health to Swann

Problem is if there is money raising powers like water charges and perscription charges, there'll be uproar.

So if a politician does this, people will go mad.

Same as closing hospitals etc. It's common sense but not a vote winner. In fairness, NHS needs a total revamp, not just closing a few hospitals. A new health service needs to be planned for.

Is it more important for everyone to have free prescriptions or for ambulances to come when you are seriously ill?

Water charges on the meter are fine, if you waste it then you pay for it.

I doubt if we start paying for prescriptions that ambulances will suddenly start being readily available. It'll take more than money to fix that kind of thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PM
What did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.


Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on February 06, 2024, 02:15:42 PM
Meanwhile in the real world away from the pantomine that is Stormont.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68214768

My heart goes out to people living this situation, suffice to say they probably don't (understandably) give 2 f@=ks about the protocol, United Ireland, having a nationalist first minister etc.

Not a clear cut red white and blue or green and gold issue so no brownie points (votes at election time) for politicians to be seen prioritising things like this over throwing money at their own pet projects.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.




In your eyes, are political parties forbidden from changing policy, attitude, beliefs? Does society not change and should political parties not reflect that?

I don't know what % of SFs membership were members under Thatchers rule but I'd wager its low. Most will have joined since then (including the current First Minister).

On a scale of 1 to 10, how annoyed are you that this historic moment for Nationalism has been enjoyed by SF, not the SDLP?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 06, 2024, 02:53:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.



It's really not hypocrisy. The current British government isn't employing shoot to kill, interment, collusion, sectarian policing etc. it's a world away from the 70's, 80's and 90's.
The SDLP have become an irrelevance. They can blame SF for that if they wish, but the reality is that they should look at some of their actions and ask why so many voters left them in their droves. They showed a lack of leadership at pivotal times.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 06, 2024, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 06, 2024, 02:53:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.



It's really not hypocrisy. The current British government isn't employing shoot to kill, interment, collusion, sectarian policing etc. it's a world away from the 70's, 80's and 90's.
The SDLP have become an irrelevance. They can blame SF for that if they wish, but the reality is that they should look at some of their actions and ask why so many voters left them in their droves. They showed a lack of leadership at pivotal times.

In the name of God
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 06, 2024, 03:52:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.




In your eyes, are political parties forbidden from changing policy, attitude, beliefs? Does society not change and should political parties not reflect that?

I don't know what % of SFs membership were members under Thatchers rule but I'd wager its low. Most will have joined since then (including the current First Minister).

On a scale of 1 to 10, how annoyed are you that this historic moment for Nationalism has been enjoyed by SF, not the SDLP?

I am delighted.
All I want to do is shine a light on SF's hypocrisy and the waste of over 3000s lives when we could have gotten to this point much sooner and many more lives would have been saved, especially the innocent ones.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 06, 2024, 04:21:52 PM
You must be totally upset that the French and Germans don't any longer have a war every few years  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 06, 2024, 04:47:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 03:52:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.




In your eyes, are political parties forbidden from changing policy, attitude, beliefs? Does society not change and should political parties not reflect that?

I don't know what % of SFs membership were members under Thatchers rule but I'd wager its low. Most will have joined since then (including the current First Minister).

On a scale of 1 to 10, how annoyed are you that this historic moment for Nationalism has been enjoyed by SF, not the SDLP?

I am delighted.
All I want to do is shine a light on SF's hypocrisy and the waste of over 3000s lives when we could have gotten to this point much sooner and many more lives would have been saved, especially the innocent ones.


Are you Seán Kelly in disguise?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 06, 2024, 05:11:39 PM
What would you have said if she'd blanked him?

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Franko on February 06, 2024, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

 ;D  ;D  ;D

By your logic Sunak should refuse to deal with Macron because of Napoleon

Desperately clutching much?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 06, 2024, 05:17:59 PM
Quote from: Franko on February 06, 2024, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

 ;D  ;D  ;D

By your logic Sunak should refuse to deal with Macron because of Napoleon

Desperately clutching much?
Who's German chancellor these days? Couldn't be seen meeting them either
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 06, 2024, 06:52:10 PM
if sinn fein lose the working class in the south they are done
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 03:52:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.




In your eyes, are political parties forbidden from changing policy, attitude, beliefs? Does society not change and should political parties not reflect that?

I don't know what % of SFs membership were members under Thatchers rule but I'd wager its low. Most will have joined since then (including the current First Minister).

On a scale of 1 to 10, how annoyed are you that this historic moment for Nationalism has been enjoyed by SF, not the SDLP?

I am delighted.
All I want to do is shine a light on SF's hypocrisy and the waste of over 3000s lives when we could have gotten to this point much sooner and many more lives would have been saved, especially the innocent ones.


I do have to ask why the lives taken by loyalist paramilitaries, British forces etc is now the responsibility of SF, especially since it was Loyalists who instigated the violence and the Troubles!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 06, 2024, 10:12:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 06, 2024, 02:53:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.



It's really not hypocrisy. The current British government isn't employing shoot to kill, interment, collusion, sectarian policing etc. it's a world away from the 70's, 80's and 90's.
The SDLP have become an irrelevance. They can blame SF for that if they wish, but the reality is that they should look at some of their actions and ask why so many voters left them in their droves. They showed a lack of leadership at pivotal times.

In the name of God
I can picture you grasping your pearls.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 06, 2024, 10:44:49 PM
Regarding a border poll, it feels too much weight is being given to the Arins project published regularly by the Irish Times. It seems to have good people attached to it like Prof Brendan O'Leary but it's hard to believe the pro-Unity vote is at only 30% (up a whopping 1% since their last one) pro UK 51% after the Brexit shitshow, the state of Public Services in North, and Stormont/DUP inactive for 2 years when south is having big surpluses and creating Norway style sovereign funds. Their methodology seems impartial enough:

North and South methodology: How we took the pulse of Ireland on unity

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/12/03/taking-the-pulse-of-ireland-north-and-south/

If this project is going to be considered the standard for measuring attitudes, it gives the Brits a perfect excuse not to ever call one. Its results literally got written into their command paper (valentine to DUP). There are other polls that show it a tighter thing but get ignored. Plus in the actual local elections, the Unionist vote dipped below 40%. And it's an aging vote by all accounts. So surprising that there's a 21% gap in this poll.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on February 06, 2024, 10:59:09 PM
The Brits want out and they'll call a border poll when they can control/be sure of the outcome - the final betrayal of unionists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 06, 2024, 11:30:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 06, 2024, 02:53:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.



It's really not hypocrisy. The current British government isn't employing shoot to kill, interment, collusion, sectarian policing etc. it's a world away from the 70's, 80's and 90's.
The SDLP have become an irrelevance. They can blame SF for that if they wish, but the reality is that they should look at some of their actions and ask why so many voters left them in their droves. They showed a lack of leadership at pivotal times.

In the name of God

What? Are you saying the SDLP has been blessed with strong leaders in recent years? Let's take a brief look at each of Hume's successors:

Mark Durkan - Left to join the conservative FG for whom he failed to win a seat.
Margaret Ritchie - Lasted a full year in the role. Recently announced she was "delighted" to accept a Tory bestowed peerage. She now sits in the British House of Lords and goes by her chosen title 'Barrones Richie of Downpatrick'.
Alasdair McDonnell - Oversaw dramtic electoral decline. Attempted to forge links with the right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.
Colm Eastwood - Forged a failed "alliance" with Fianna Fáil - a conservative party led by a dyed-in-the-wool partitionist. Has overseen the SDLPs worst ever electoral performances.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 07, 2024, 07:34:48 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 06, 2024, 11:30:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 06, 2024, 02:53:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 06, 2024, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:48:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 06, 2024, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 06, 2024, 01:08:00 PMWhat did we all make of MON hugging the Prime Minister of the UK?

Are SF the new Stoops? Surely diehard combatants are looking at this thinking WTF? Or families of IRA men killed by the British are saying to themselves what was this all about?

Incredible scenes. 

Would you rather she told him to eff off?

Was that the only two options? Hug him or f@ck him off?
It would appear that the IRAs campaign of violence was pretty pointless if the SF deputy leader was going to hug the British Prime Minister. Could you imagine MMcG hugging Thatcher?

I just want to establish if there is anything that MON could do in that situation that you'd be happy with.

Thatcher is definitely not Sunak by the way, so that's a moot point.

Dont feed it  ::)

Typical SF supporter response. Point out their hypocrisy and it's don't feed it. Ignore him.
It's an absolutely legitimate question to ask in the context of SFs past.
SF have always always criticised others, even mocked them for similar actions. SDLP are the stoops. But here we are. SF... the new stoops.



It's really not hypocrisy. The current British government isn't employing shoot to kill, interment, collusion, sectarian policing etc. it's a world away from the 70's, 80's and 90's.
The SDLP have become an irrelevance. They can blame SF for that if they wish, but the reality is that they should look at some of their actions and ask why so many voters left them in their droves. They showed a lack of leadership at pivotal times.

In the name of God

What? Are you saying the SDLP has been blessed with strong leaders in recent years? Let's take a brief look at each of Hume's successors:

Mark Durkan - Left to join the conservative FG for whom he failed to win a seat.
Margaret Ritchie - Lasted a full year in the role. Recently announced she was "delighted" to accept a Tory bestowed peerage. She now sits in the British House of Lords and goes by her chosen title 'Barrones Richie of Downpatrick'.
Alasdair McDonnell - Oversaw dramtic electoral decline. Attempted to forge links with the right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.
Colm Eastwood - Forged a failed "alliance" with Fianna Fáil - a conservative party led by a dyed-in-the-wool partitionist. Has overseen the SDLPs worst ever electoral performances.

I think it is unfair to lay all the SDLP electoral decline at the door of the Eastwood. It has coincided with a changed SF post-GFA where voting for them was seen are a lot more palatable than when the Troubles were in full swing. As it stands I don't see any way back for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 07, 2024, 11:09:37 AM
one of the reason of sdlp decline is there militant approach to the vaccine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 07, 2024, 11:10:03 AM
Shouts of sinn fein are traitors at mondays protests.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 07, 2024, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 07, 2024, 11:09:37 AMone of the reason of sdlp decline is there militant approach to the vaccine.

Is that a serious post? Dear god please tell me it's not.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2024, 11:27:11 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2024, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 07, 2024, 11:09:37 AMone of the reason of sdlp decline is there militant approach to the vaccine.

Is that a serious post? Dear god please tell me it's not.

I think Eire90 is Olly's WUP account. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 07, 2024, 11:30:10 AM
That lad seems to wake up and throw a random post before the nurse comes round with his meds🙄.

Seems the only reason the SDLP seem to exist nowadays is so that non SF Nationalists have someone to vote for.
Such people are getting scarcer as memories of violence recede and SF move towards the Centre.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Taylor on February 07, 2024, 12:53:09 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2024, 11:27:11 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 07, 2024, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 07, 2024, 11:09:37 AMone of the reason of sdlp decline is there militant approach to the vaccine.

Is that a serious post? Dear god please tell me it's not.

I think Eire90 is Olly's WUP account. 

 ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 07, 2024, 11:09:37 AMone of the reason of sdlp decline is there militant approach to the vaccine.

1) reasons
2) their
3) Which vaccine?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 08, 2024, 11:34:28 AM
bad poll news for sinn fein again

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/02/08/irish-times-poll-sinn-fein-support-hits-lowest-level-in-three-years-falling-by-six-points/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on February 08, 2024, 11:44:03 AM
Why could this be, eh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2024, 12:01:56 PM
Could be down to the fact that they may get new refugees from the north when the Border poll comes  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tonto1888 on February 08, 2024, 12:14:57 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 08, 2024, 11:44:03 AMWhy could this be, eh?

I am sure you will tell us
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 08, 2024, 03:26:54 PM
what happened last night with sinn fein at the europa hotel apparantly sinn fein heavies were involved
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 08, 2024, 03:52:20 PM
Where do you pull the random shite out of on every single thread
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 08, 2024, 04:38:39 PM
O'Neill and McDonald on GMB and Sky this am. Very assured and confident. Two good showings. O'Neill especially came across well.

Would be interesting to know how the British public viewed their interviews.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on February 08, 2024, 04:46:24 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 08, 2024, 03:26:54 PMwhat happened last night with sinn fein at the europa hotel apparantly sinn fein heavies were involved

Do they still have the heavies? Theyre all able to collect pension by now surely
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 08, 2024, 05:25:52 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 08, 2024, 03:52:20 PMWhere do you pull the random shite out of on every single thread
He's a bit like Fr Jack.... wakes from a stupor and posts something random before the nurse switches his phone off
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 08, 2024, 07:33:57 PM
sinn fein threw Palestinians out of a pro Palestine meeting after someone challenged the palestine authority called them a corrupt dictatorship that has not had elections since 2006
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 08, 2024, 07:40:22 PM

https://twitter.com/ed_razors72027/status/1755555958321815765
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 08, 2024, 08:41:51 PM
Some them Sinn Fein meetings are like 3rd Reich rallies, No dissenting voice allowed and everybody gotta be a yes man/woman.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 08, 2024, 09:03:39 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 08, 2024, 08:41:51 PMSome them Sinn Fein meetings are like 3rd Reich rallies, No dissenting voice allowed and everybody gotta be a yes man/woman.
do you go to many
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 08, 2024, 09:15:09 PM
Sinn fein would want to review their security that was a major security breach a lot of sinn members in one place if more sinister elements or factions showed up it could have been a lot worse.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 09, 2024, 06:02:31 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 08, 2024, 08:41:51 PMSome them Sinn Fein meetings are like 3rd Reich rallies, No dissenting voice allowed and everybody gotta be a yes man/woman.

If this was a SDLP,DUP,FF,FG or any other political party meeting and someone got up on stage and started guldering over the speaker, what would happen? Would they let them go ahead and say "well this isn't the third reach, work away", or would they be removed?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 09, 2024, 03:47:24 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 08, 2024, 03:26:54 PMwhat happened last night with sinn fein at the europa hotel apparantly sinn fein heavies were involved
It was the Weight-watchers Cumann protesting the recent 5% hike in prices.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 09, 2024, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 09, 2024, 06:02:31 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 08, 2024, 08:41:51 PMSome them Sinn Fein meetings are like 3rd Reich rallies, No dissenting voice allowed and everybody gotta be a yes man/woman.

If this was a SDLP,DUP,FF,FG or any other political party meeting and someone got up on stage and started guldering over the speaker, what would happen? Would they let them go ahead and say "well this isn't the third reach, work away", or would they be removed?
Conservative Conference fringe event a couple of years back a few women were manhandled by elected politicians no less.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 09, 2024, 03:57:21 PM
SF should have had Poots there as special guest. He knows how to deal with disruptions.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on February 09, 2024, 04:40:21 PM
They've always been an angry breed

Poots - a voice as high as a woman's then in the next breath offering a boy on?! Take a render

Decent set of jebs on the old biddy towards the end

I've said too much 😜🤓
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 09, 2024, 04:55:49 PM
Just listening to that video again. What it was was a scuffle between DUP, PUP and UDP.
Any wonder why everyone laughs at the North.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 09, 2024, 05:00:55 PM
Poots wanted to clean his clock. Some man for the oul clock cleaning.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 09, 2024, 05:00:55 PMPoots wanted to clean his clock. Some man for the oul clock cleaning.

Wonder did he say clock or c**k?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 09, 2024, 07:16:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 09, 2024, 04:55:49 PMJust listening to that video again. What it was was a scuffle between DUP, PUP and UDP.
Any wonder why everyone laughs at the North.

Funny I saw Jim 'My Community' Wilson stuck in the middle of it also.

Must had been around the time of the GFA.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 08:37:28 PM
Who was the big guy that poots was shouting at? Gangster look about him. I recognised him.

Yeah Wilson in the middle of it. Does nothing but damage to his own community that boy and none of them see it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 09, 2024, 08:39:11 PM
Gary McMichael.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 09:07:25 PM
Plum Smith in there too. Poots an absolute numbskull but he and boys like him have the last laugh as they've filled their coffers over the last 20 or 30 years.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Kidder81 on February 09, 2024, 09:13:11 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 09:07:25 PMPlum Smith in there too. Poots an absolute numbskull but he and boys like him have the last laugh as they've filled their coffers over the last 20 or 30 years.

I remember being in Lisburn years ago and he was doing a walk around, must have been coming up to local elections & honestly you would have thought it was JFK ffs at the height of his popularity.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 09:32:45 PM
Poots may be a horrible man but he's a wily boy too. Plenty of money etc and done alright for himself. Cheers - Gary Mc Michael a name that's vaguely familiar.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 09:32:45 PMPoots may be a horrible man but he's a wily boy too. Plenty of money etc and done alright for himself. Cheers - Gary Mc Michael a name that's vaguely familiar.

He's the son of Gary mcMichael who was blown up in his car..

He was set up by one's within the UDA..
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 09, 2024, 09:41:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 09:32:45 PMPoots may be a horrible man but he's a wily boy too. Plenty of money etc and done alright for himself. Cheers - Gary Mc Michael a name that's vaguely familiar.

He's the son of Gary mcMichael who was blown up in his car..

He was set up by one's within the UDA..
John McMichael.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 09, 2024, 09:41:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 09:32:45 PMPoots may be a horrible man but he's a wily boy too. Plenty of money etc and done alright for himself. Cheers - Gary Mc Michael a name that's vaguely familiar.

He's the son of Gary mcMichael who was blown up in his car..

He was set up by one's within the UDA..
John McMichael.

Yes.. my mistake
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 09:55:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 09, 2024, 09:41:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 09:32:45 PMPoots may be a horrible man but he's a wily boy too. Plenty of money etc and done alright for himself. Cheers - Gary Mc Michael a name that's vaguely familiar.

He's the son of Gary mcMichael who was blown up in his car..

He was set up by one's within the UDA..
John McMichael.

Yes.. my mistake
Big John was blown up in his own driveway.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2024, 09:55:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 09, 2024, 09:41:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 09, 2024, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 09:32:45 PMPoots may be a horrible man but he's a wily boy too. Plenty of money etc and done alright for himself. Cheers - Gary Mc Michael a name that's vaguely familiar.

He's the son of Gary mcMichael who was blown up in his car..

He was set up by one's within the UDA..
John McMichael.

Yes.. my mistake
Big John was blown up in his own driveway.

Remember it well
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 11, 2024, 01:32:44 AM
Poll shows that SF voters in the 26 counties have the lowest regard for immigration of any major party
https://twitter.com/AnMailleach/status/1756412719471665215

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGAIDo7XAAAg2iC?format=jpg&name=small)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGAIDo5WYAAI4VN?format=jpg&name=900x900)

this may cue some engaging of reverse gears.

Will the airbrush be applied to the archives

(https://politics.ie/attachments/capture-jpg.189531/)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2024, 10:52:55 AM
Does this mean most Shinner supporters are closet xenophobic right wingers?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on February 11, 2024, 11:19:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2024, 10:52:55 AMDoes this mean most Shinner supporters are closet xenophobic right wingers?

No, it means they're right-thinking nationalists who are being duped by a dishonest bunch of internationalist socialists.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 11, 2024, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 11, 2024, 11:19:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2024, 10:52:55 AMDoes this mean most Shinner supporters are closet xenophobic right wingers?

No, it means they're right-thinking nationalists who are being duped by a dishonest bunch of internationalist socialists.
They'll maybe wise up abit now
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 11, 2024, 12:02:57 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 11, 2024, 11:19:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2024, 10:52:55 AMDoes this mean most Shinner supporters are closet xenophobic right wingers?

No, it means they're right-thinking nationalists who are being duped by a dishonest bunch of internationalist socialists.

There is the case, of course. But it is also a case of SF being stuck in student debating soundbite mode, without the maturity or responsibility to actually have a plan. It sounds great to say "racism is bad everyone should come to Ireland" but of course this is substantially contradictory with other statements about shortage of housing etc. It has been said that many people vote SF to get a house, preferably one paid for by someone else, and these people notice that their prospects are not improved by unlimited immigration.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 11, 2024, 03:10:40 PM
has sinn fein poll decline correlated  with the 7th of october attacks sinn feins hamas friends might have ironically cost sinn fein the election
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: clarshack on February 11, 2024, 05:07:30 PM
Seen a picture the other day of them at Stormont and there was barely a bloke among them. They need a few more strong males in the party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: From the Bunker on February 11, 2024, 05:20:33 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 11, 2024, 05:07:30 PMSeen a picture the other day of them at Stormont and there was barely a bloke among them. They need a few more strong males in the party.

All the left parties - Labour, Social Democrats and Sinn Fein have female leaders. It's a way of saying to the masses we are a progressive party.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 11, 2024, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 11, 2024, 05:20:33 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 11, 2024, 05:07:30 PMSeen a picture the other day of them at Stormont and there was barely a bloke among them. They need a few more strong males in the party.

All the left parties - Labour, Social Democrats and Sinn Fein have female leaders. It's a way of saying to the masses we are a progressive party.

Yes that has to be the only reason a woman could be a leader....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JoG2 on February 12, 2024, 12:08:46 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 11, 2024, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 11, 2024, 05:20:33 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 11, 2024, 05:07:30 PMSeen a picture the other day of them at Stormont and there was barely a bloke among them. They need a few more strong males in the party.

All the left parties - Labour, Social Democrats and Sinn Fein have female leaders. It's a way of saying to the masses we are a progressive party.

Yes that has to be the only reason a woman could be a leader....

This board never fails to raise the eye brows (mostly unplucked)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 12, 2024, 10:52:59 AM
The English Conservatives picked some females as leaders.
Not much progressive about them 3 tulips!


Meanwhile....I'll have no one to vote for in the next GE


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41329498.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on February 12, 2024, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2024, 10:52:59 AMThe English Conservatives picked some females as leaders.
Not much progressive about them 3 tulips!


Meanwhile....I'll have no one to vote for in the next GE


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41329498.html

Spoiling a vote is better craic anyway, can write whatever you like on it
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 13, 2024, 09:01:45 AM
M'ON said it is unfair to ask ppl to pay water charges in a cost of living crisis but SF along with DUP and UUP happy to increase rates in Mid Ulster by 5.9%.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on February 13, 2024, 09:09:14 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 13, 2024, 09:01:45 AMM'ON said it is unfair to ask ppl to pay water charges in a cost of living crisis but SF along with DUP and UUP happy to increase rates in Mid Ulster by 5.9%.


Are you proposing that all rates are frozen forever?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lurganblue on February 13, 2024, 09:11:58 AM
Quote from: Brendan on February 12, 2024, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2024, 10:52:59 AMThe English Conservatives picked some females as leaders.
Not much progressive about them 3 tulips!


Meanwhile....I'll have no one to vote for in the next GE


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41329498.html

Spoiling a vote is better craic anyway, can write whatever you like on it

I've worked in the count before. You can get a bit of giggle at the table about something written on a spoiled vote alright. That's probably about all who sees it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 13, 2024, 09:28:44 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 13, 2024, 09:09:14 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 13, 2024, 09:01:45 AMM'ON said it is unfair to ask ppl to pay water charges in a cost of living crisis but SF along with DUP and UUP happy to increase rates in Mid Ulster by 5.9%.


Are you proposing that all rates are frozen forever?

They raised them 7.3% last year and 3.9% 2022

I think continually increasing them year on year is unfair. Especially when MO'N said additional costs at this time is unfair. Is it to much to ask for SF to be consistent?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 09:34:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 13, 2024, 09:28:44 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 13, 2024, 09:09:14 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 13, 2024, 09:01:45 AMM'ON said it is unfair to ask ppl to pay water charges in a cost of living crisis but SF along with DUP and UUP happy to increase rates in Mid Ulster by 5.9%.


Are you proposing that all rates are frozen forever?

They raised them 7.3% last year and 3.9% 2022

I think continually increasing them year on year is unfair. Especially when MO'N said additional costs at this time is unfair. Is it to much to ask for SF to be consistent?


Buisness reporter on bbc was on the radio the other day explaining that we pay on average £500 less per household on rates than Wales, despite having a larger economy and less deprivation than them (I was suprised too).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: JohnDenver on February 13, 2024, 09:43:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 13, 2024, 09:28:44 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 13, 2024, 09:09:14 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 13, 2024, 09:01:45 AMM'ON said it is unfair to ask ppl to pay water charges in a cost of living crisis but SF along with DUP and UUP happy to increase rates in Mid Ulster by 5.9%.


Are you proposing that all rates are frozen forever?

They raised them 7.3% last year and 3.9% 2022

I think continually increasing them year on year is unfair. Especially when MO'N said additional costs at this time is unfair. Is it to much to ask for SF to be consistent?


Was that a yes or a no?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 13, 2024, 10:32:42 AM
Rates are set by individual councils. But that is only part of your rates. bill. the other is made up of the regional rate which was frozen for a couple of years. The big issue with rates. is the 70% discount for industrial businesses and 100% for farms. This narrows the rates base meaning we all pay more. this is not the case across the water. The biggest issue with council rates is how they are spent and it is here that the problem arises. Any efficiencies driven by a prudent council CEO will undoubtedly result in an outcry from, we the public, council workers and others affected. by the change. Councillors will be lobbied by the people who vote for them and as a result are reluctant to rationalise and so the rates increase. The outcry lasts a month and then people move on.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 13, 2024, 10:50:54 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on February 13, 2024, 09:11:58 AM
Quote from: Brendan on February 12, 2024, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2024, 10:52:59 AMThe English Conservatives picked some females as leaders.
Not much progressive about them 3 tulips!


Meanwhile....I'll have no one to vote for in the next GE


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41329498.html

Spoiling a vote is better craic anyway, can write whatever you like on it

I've worked in the count before. You can get a bit of giggle at the table about something written on a spoiled vote alright. That's probably about all who sees it.

Is there a way they can find   out who's  voting card it was that was  spoiled?

Like, if  you wrote "f**k the DUP" on yours,  would there  be a way of the DUP finding out  you did that, so  they wouldn't bother to send you an election  leaflet next time (last  I heard , parties knew if you voted at all , so maybe they'd know  you spoiled your vote?)

Or what about if someone wrote something  offensive or  racist? Is there any comeback?

Asking for a friend  ;D
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lurganblue on February 13, 2024, 10:59:52 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 13, 2024, 10:50:54 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on February 13, 2024, 09:11:58 AM
Quote from: Brendan on February 12, 2024, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2024, 10:52:59 AMThe English Conservatives picked some females as leaders.
Not much progressive about them 3 tulips!


Meanwhile....I'll have no one to vote for in the next GE


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41329498.html

Spoiling a vote is better craic anyway, can write whatever you like on it

I've worked in the count before. You can get a bit of giggle at the table about something written on a spoiled vote alright. That's probably about all who sees it.

Is there a way they can find   out who's  voting card it was that was  spoiled?

Like, if  you wrote "f**k the DUP" on yours,  would there  be a way of the DUP finding out  you did that, so  they wouldn't bother to send you an election  leaflet next time (last  I heard , parties knew if you voted at all , so maybe they'd know  you spoiled your vote?)

Or what about if someone wrote something  offensive or  racist? Is there any comeback?

Asking for a friend  ;D

 ;D I would say that they know who has voted as your name is marked off at the polling station when you attend. Other than that the slip is anonymous, so batter on but dont expect it to reach the eyes of your intended recipient  8) 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on February 13, 2024, 11:08:05 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 13, 2024, 10:50:54 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on February 13, 2024, 09:11:58 AM
Quote from: Brendan on February 12, 2024, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2024, 10:52:59 AMThe English Conservatives picked some females as leaders.
Not much progressive about them 3 tulips!


Meanwhile....I'll have no one to vote for in the next GE


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41329498.html

Spoiling a vote is better craic anyway, can write whatever you like on it

I've worked in the count before. You can get a bit of giggle at the table about something written on a spoiled vote alright. That's probably about all who sees it.

Is there a way they can find  out who's  voting card it was that was  spoiled?

Like, if  you wrote "f**k the DUP" on yours,  would there  be a way of the DUP finding out  you did that, so  they wouldn't bother to send you an election  leaflet next time (last  I heard , parties knew if you voted at all , so maybe they'd know  you spoiled your vote?)

Or what about if someone wrote something  offensive or  racist? Is there any comeback?

Asking for a friend  ;D
Ballots have serial numbers attached to you / electoral register. Confidentiality is a bit of a myth & ends outside the voting booth. If you wrote I'm going to shoot wee Jeffrey D you'd soon get a swat team visit.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: SaffronSports on February 13, 2024, 12:40:12 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 13, 2024, 11:08:05 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 13, 2024, 10:50:54 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on February 13, 2024, 09:11:58 AM
Quote from: Brendan on February 12, 2024, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2024, 10:52:59 AMThe English Conservatives picked some females as leaders.
Not much progressive about them 3 tulips!


Meanwhile....I'll have no one to vote for in the next GE


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41329498.html

Spoiling a vote is better craic anyway, can write whatever you like on it

I've worked in the count before. You can get a bit of giggle at the table about something written on a spoiled vote alright. That's probably about all who sees it.

Is there a way they can find  out who's  voting card it was that was  spoiled?

Like, if  you wrote "f**k the DUP" on yours,  would there  be a way of the DUP finding out  you did that, so  they wouldn't bother to send you an election  leaflet next time (last  I heard , parties knew if you voted at all , so maybe they'd know  you spoiled your vote?)

Or what about if someone wrote something  offensive or  racist? Is there any comeback?

Asking for a friend  ;D
Ballots have serial numbers attached to you / electoral register. Confidentiality is a bit of a myth & ends outside the voting booth. If you wrote I'm going to shoot wee Jeffrey D you'd soon get a swat team visit.

Yeah this is true. The two folk at the table mark you off the register as having voted but they also call your number out and the other person writes it down to what ballot paper it was issued. For example your number 43 so they'd write 43 beside ballot paper 654 then if there was something on there like a death threat it could definitely be traceable.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 13, 2024, 02:45:56 PM
That was abolished here many years ago as the Courts found it made votes traceable.
Meanwhile 6 Co Political Parties being reacquainted with the real World....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on February 13, 2024, 05:36:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 13, 2024, 10:32:42 AMRates are set by individual councils. But that is only part of your rates. bill. the other is made up of the regional rate which was frozen for a couple of years. The big issue with rates. is the 70% discount for industrial businesses and 100% for farms. This narrows the rates base meaning we all pay more. this is not the case across the water. The biggest issue with council rates is how they are spent and it is here that the problem arises. Any efficiencies driven by a prudent council CEO will undoubtedly result in an outcry from, we the public, council workers and others affected. by the change. Councillors will be lobbied by the people who vote for them and as a result are reluctant to rationalise and so the rates increase. The outcry lasts a month and then people move on.
That's it in a nutshell. Farmers and manufacturers are holy grails that they won't touch, and you can't cheer on the Unions and then not expect to have to pay for it later. Finding efficiency in how services are delivered is never in the equation, just spend spend spend. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 13, 2024, 06:16:49 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2024, 05:36:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 13, 2024, 10:32:42 AMRates are set by individual councils. But that is only part of your rates. bill. the other is made up of the regional rate which was frozen for a couple of years. The big issue with rates. is the 70% discount for industrial businesses and 100% for farms. This narrows the rates base meaning we all pay more. this is not the case across the water. The biggest issue with council rates is how they are spent and it is here that the problem arises. Any efficiencies driven by a prudent council CEO will undoubtedly result in an outcry from, we the public, council workers and others affected. by the change. Councillors will be lobbied by the people who vote for them and as a result are reluctant to rationalise and so the rates increase. The outcry lasts a month and then people move on.
That's it in a nutshell. Farmers and manufacturers are holy grails that they won't touch, and you can't cheer on the Unions and then not expect to have to pay for it later. Finding efficiency in how services are delivered is never in the equation, just spend spend spend. 
Food is dear enough without squeezing the farmers. The amount of money wasted on daft things in services is daft and leaves the actual important stuff like frontline healthcare staff and road maintenance underfunded. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 13, 2024, 06:36:29 PM
I think there should be a suggestion box for how the government could cut costs and save money.

Obviously there will be some sensible and practical suggestions while there could be some crazy ideas.

My one would have Michael O'Leary in charge of the Civil Service.  ;D

Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 13, 2024, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 13, 2024, 02:45:56 PMThat was abolished here many years ago as the Courts found it made votes traceable.
Meanwhile 6 Co Political Parties being reacquainted with the real World....

Yep they refuse to let go of their free lunch  :(

not only that, they want more, the usual shambles
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 06:54:17 PM
Everyone showed blind support for council workers strike a few years ago.

Where did they think the money would come for the payrise?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on February 13, 2024, 08:10:08 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 13, 2024, 06:36:29 PMI think there should be a suggestion box for how the government could cut costs and save money.

Obviously there will be some sensible and practical suggestions while there could be some crazy ideas.

My one would have Michael O'Leary in charge of the Civil Service.  ;D

Any other suggestions?

Bring Sean Quinn out of retirement.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 13, 2024, 08:37:20 PM
Get Sinn Féin into Government so that everything will be free....🙄
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: skeog on February 13, 2024, 08:57:07 PM
Free TV License good vote catcher down south any chance something similar here?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 13, 2024, 09:02:41 PM
Quote from: skeog on February 13, 2024, 08:57:07 PMFree TV License good vote catcher down south any chance something similar here?


A lot of people who vote SF do not bother with TV licences, especially in the 6 counties.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2024, 11:37:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."
They are pathetic. Gimme gimme gimme.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on February 14, 2024, 07:19:33 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68285797

Top Civil Servant in DoF to appear before a 'scrutiny committee' of MLAs.

Something not right here, the latter and the rest of their cohorts have been sitting on their backside doing sweet FA for two years and now they are bringing your man in no doubt to drag him over the coals telling him how to do his job.

TB not far wrong re gimme, gimme, gimme.

When (not if) there is a UI wait to you see what was the RoI economy take a hit when it has to take the cheque book out to prop up this place. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 14, 2024, 08:37:51 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2024, 06:16:49 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2024, 05:36:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 13, 2024, 10:32:42 AMRates are set by individual councils. But that is only part of your rates. bill. the other is made up of the regional rate which was frozen for a couple of years. The big issue with rates. is the 70% discount for industrial businesses and 100% for farms. This narrows the rates base meaning we all pay more. this is not the case across the water. The biggest issue with council rates is how they are spent and it is here that the problem arises. Any efficiencies driven by a prudent council CEO will undoubtedly result in an outcry from, we the public, council workers and others affected. by the change. Councillors will be lobbied by the people who vote for them and as a result are reluctant to rationalise and so the rates increase. The outcry lasts a month and then people move on.
That's it in a nutshell. Farmers and manufacturers are holy grails that they won't touch, and you can't cheer on the Unions and then not expect to have to pay for it later. Finding efficiency in how services are delivered is never in the equation, just spend spend spend. 
Food is dear enough without squeezing the farmers. The amount of money wasted on daft things in services is daft and leaves the actual important stuff like frontline healthcare staff and road maintenance underfunded. 

Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

Why do they speak out of both sides of their mouths? They literally voted to raise rates across a host of SF controlled councils.
SF need to be honest with the people.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.

Thats my point, she hasn't really got a clue what she's talking about, no wonder people have such distain for politics here.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.

Thats my point, she hasn't really got a clue what she's talking about, no wonder people have such distain for politics here.

Hardly surprising, she wasn't expecting to be in this role three weeks ago.

DUP threw the Shinners a curve ball on the Finance portfolio and it's well and good Michelle coming out and saying there'll be no water charges but there will need to be something.

The Domestic rates cap seems to be the most obvious thing to go and will impact the more affluent areas most as it's based on house valuations.

Not sure how much that'll generate though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 14, 2024, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: LC on February 14, 2024, 07:19:33 AMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68285797

Top Civil Servant in DoF to appear before a 'scrutiny committee' of MLAs.

Something not right here, the latter and the rest of their cohorts have been sitting on their backside doing sweet FA for two years and now they are bringing your man in no doubt to drag him over the coals telling him how to do his job.

TB not far wrong re gimme, gimme, gimme.

When (not if) there is a UI wait to you see what was the RoI economy take a hit when it has to take the cheque book out to prop up this place.

Ye could get off yer lazy arses, do some work and try to cash in on yer access to the GB and EU markets.....
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:00:53 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.

Thats my point, she hasn't really got a clue what she's talking about, no wonder people have such distain for politics here.

Archibald has a Phd and worked in business so she should have some sort of idea of what she's at.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: 5times5times on February 14, 2024, 11:16:58 AM
What the hell did shooter mcguinness know about education? Or that eejit ni chuilin know about sports?

it's all jobs for the boys.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2024, 11:19:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.

Thats my point, she hasn't really got a clue what she's talking about, no wonder people have such distain for politics here.

Hardly surprising, she wasn't expecting to be in this role three weeks ago.

DUP threw the Shinners a curve ball on the Finance portfolio and it's well and good Michelle coming out and saying there'll be no water charges but there will need to be something.

The Domestic rates cap seems to be the most obvious thing to go and will impact the more affluent areas most as it's based on house valuations.

Not sure how much that'll generate though.

There is a cap on the valuations though, is there not? So a mega house does not necessarily pay much more than a nice one.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 11:22:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2024, 11:19:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.

Thats my point, she hasn't really got a clue what she's talking about, no wonder people have such distain for politics here.

Hardly surprising, she wasn't expecting to be in this role three weeks ago.

DUP threw the Shinners a curve ball on the Finance portfolio and it's well and good Michelle coming out and saying there'll be no water charges but there will need to be something.

The Domestic rates cap seems to be the most obvious thing to go and will impact the more affluent areas most as it's based on house valuations.

Not sure how much that'll generate though.

There is a cap on the valuations though, is there not? So a mega house does not necessarily pay much more than a nice one.

Currently there is, but that's up for review to be removed to raise more funds.

Ards and North Down as well as South Belfast going to be the most impacted according to John Campbell Biz on the BBC.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on February 14, 2024, 11:16:58 AMWhat the hell did shooter mcguinness know about education? Or that eejit ni chuilin know about sports?

it's all jobs for the boys.

There's absolutely an element of that. Jim Wells in Health was another fantastic example.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:23:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 11:22:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2024, 11:19:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.

Thats my point, she hasn't really got a clue what she's talking about, no wonder people have such distain for politics here.

Hardly surprising, she wasn't expecting to be in this role three weeks ago.

DUP threw the Shinners a curve ball on the Finance portfolio and it's well and good Michelle coming out and saying there'll be no water charges but there will need to be something.

The Domestic rates cap seems to be the most obvious thing to go and will impact the more affluent areas most as it's based on house valuations.

Not sure how much that'll generate though.

There is a cap on the valuations though, is there not? So a mega house does not necessarily pay much more than a nice one.

Currently there is, but that's up for review to be removed to raise more funds.

Ards and North Down as well as South Belfast going to be the most impacted according to John Campbell Biz on the BBC.


Houses in towns that get more services should pay more as opposed to houses in the country. That is what would actually be fair.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on February 14, 2024, 11:16:58 AMWhat the hell did shooter mcguinness know about education? Or that eejit ni chuilin know about sports?

it's all jobs for the boys.

There's absolutely an element of that. Jim Wells in Health was another fantastic example.

When has it been any different?

Sure what does Jeremy Hunt know about economics? He's an English teacher with a load of failed businesses behind him.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 14, 2024, 11:37:22 AM
That's politics really.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:53:32 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on February 14, 2024, 11:16:58 AMWhat the hell did shooter mcguinness know about education? Or that eejit ni chuilin know about sports?

it's all jobs for the boys.

There's absolutely an element of that. Jim Wells in Health was another fantastic example.

When has it been any different?

Sure what does Jeremy Hunt know about economics? He's an English teacher with a load of failed businesses behind him.

I'd argue a fair bit having been in business and you actually learn lots from failures. Especially in business. So much so that he sold his last business for millions. He's not completely dense to be honest.
But yes I do agree that there a fair few chancers in fairly high roles.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 14, 2024, 12:08:17 PM
Hunt is an operator tbh. Very devious etc and more than capable but it's just he uses it for his own gain rather than the betterment of anyone else.

In general it's how politics works - though finance would tend to be the one role you'd think some would know about. I think Poots was near as bad as Wells as health minister. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: bennydorano on February 14, 2024, 12:10:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:53:32 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: 5times5times on February 14, 2024, 11:16:58 AMWhat the hell did shooter mcguinness know about education? Or that eejit ni chuilin know about sports?

it's all jobs for the boys.

There's absolutely an element of that. Jim Wells in Health was another fantastic example.

When has it been any different?

Sure what does Jeremy Hunt know about economics? He's an English teacher with a load of failed businesses behind him.

I'd argue a fair bit having been in business and you actually learn lots from failures. Especially in business. So much so that he sold his last business for millions. He's not completely dense to be honest.
But yes I do agree that there a fair few chancers in fairly high roles.
Hunt is also a multi millionaire so not the best example to illustrate the point.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-chancellor-net-worth-b2452218.html
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 14, 2024, 12:31:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2024, 11:19:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.

Thats my point, she hasn't really got a clue what she's talking about, no wonder people have such distain for politics here.

Hardly surprising, she wasn't expecting to be in this role three weeks ago.

DUP threw the Shinners a curve ball on the Finance portfolio and it's well and good Michelle coming out and saying there'll be no water charges but there will need to be something.

The Domestic rates cap seems to be the most obvious thing to go and will impact the more affluent areas most as it's based on house valuations.

Not sure how much that'll generate though.

There is a cap on the valuations though, is there not? So a mega house does not necessarily pay much more than a nice one.

I find it strange  that rates  are based on house size.  A bungalow pays say , £1000 a year , and next door  a bigger house pays £2000. Why?

It's obviously about: you have  a bigger house , therefore you have  more money , so we want more of it.  A big or small house seemingly pays for  the same services , police, Street lights, bins , leisure services etc . A bigger house  has no real bearing on those
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2024, 01:02:24 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 14, 2024, 12:31:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2024, 11:19:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2024, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.

Thats my point, she hasn't really got a clue what she's talking about, no wonder people have such distain for politics here.

Hardly surprising, she wasn't expecting to be in this role three weeks ago.

DUP threw the Shinners a curve ball on the Finance portfolio and it's well and good Michelle coming out and saying there'll be no water charges but there will need to be something.

The Domestic rates cap seems to be the most obvious thing to go and will impact the more affluent areas most as it's based on house valuations.

Not sure how much that'll generate though.

There is a cap on the valuations though, is there not? So a mega house does not necessarily pay much more than a nice one.

I find it strange  that rates  are based on house size.  A bungalow pays say , £1000 a year , and next door  a bigger house pays £2000. Why?

It's obviously about: you have  a bigger house , therefore you have  more money , so we want more of it.  A big or small house seemingly pays for  the same services , police, Street lights, bins , leisure services etc . A bigger house  has no real bearing on those
A rudimentary type of means testing I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: LC on February 14, 2024, 01:27:42 PM
Whether you like them or not the majority of high profile English politicians come from a career background in that if they were no longer an MP they could go back to their previous profession e.g. Kier Starmer comes from a legal background.

Struggling to think what a lot of our politicians plan B would be in the morning if the Stormount gravy train ground to a halt.  There are only so many community workers needed so after that God knows what they would do.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 14, 2024, 01:46:50 PM
Yeah I would say that is a fair enough point. There are some capable people in there but there are some people far from capable too.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 15, 2024, 02:21:13 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2024, 06:16:49 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 13, 2024, 05:36:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 13, 2024, 10:32:42 AMRates are set by individual councils. But that is only part of your rates. bill. the other is made up of the regional rate which was frozen for a couple of years. The big issue with rates. is the 70% discount for industrial businesses and 100% for farms. This narrows the rates base meaning we all pay more. this is not the case across the water. The biggest issue with council rates is how they are spent and it is here that the problem arises. Any efficiencies driven by a prudent council CEO will undoubtedly result in an outcry from, we the public, council workers and others affected. by the change. Councillors will be lobbied by the people who vote for them and as a result are reluctant to rationalise and so the rates increase. The outcry lasts a month and then people move on.
That's it in a nutshell. Farmers and manufacturers are holy grails that they won't touch, and you can't cheer on the Unions and then not expect to have to pay for it later. Finding efficiency in how services are delivered is never in the equation, just spend spend spend. 
Food is dear enough without squeezing the farmers. The amount of money wasted on daft things in services is daft and leaves the actual important stuff like frontline healthcare staff and road maintenance underfunded. 

Squeezing the farmers? Every business should pay its dues, the cost of retail rates is the big additional cost to your food bill.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 15, 2024, 02:23:36 PM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2024, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 14, 2024, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 13, 2024, 11:05:34 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68282329)

"Its unfair we have to provide a plan to raise 113m ourselves in order for the British to write off the 550m we owe."

What is her background in finance?

What are any of their backgrounds in what they do? They will pay a consultancy firm an absolute fortune using taxpayers money to tell them what to do.
This is the way.

Thats my point, she hasn't really got a clue what she's talking about, no wonder people have such distain for politics here.
She has a Phd so id say she's as smart as any of us.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 15, 2024, 02:31:41 PM
Is SF's policy on rates sustainable? I'd say probably  not. But  I'd also say they aren't alone. The big issue with politics on both sides of the border is accessibility to your voters. We are parochial which means politicians can't distance themselves from unpopular policies the way UK MP's can. That leads to the impasses we see in rationalisation in health and education. We have too many hospitals for the size of population, but what Newry or East Antrim MLA is going to vote to close or downgrade  Daisy  Hill or Causeway? It isn't sustainable. But neither is the rates burden on retail and professional services. That's  why town centres are dying. The Rates system need overhauled, health and education need rationalised but we the public will be up in arms if our local hospital dosen't  have the same services as the Royal.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 15, 2024, 02:46:15 PM
Has causeway not been "downgraded" a good bit? (Agree with your points mainly though)

Rates system needs overhauled big time. I think it's crippling businesses - small ones in particular. What's the choice here? Empty buildings and no rates or high rates? I think I hear ones saying it's between rates and VAT. (I would listen to a few of them but MIchael Deane does seem a bit full of it so not sure on his complaints...).
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 15, 2024, 03:06:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 15, 2024, 02:46:15 PMHas causeway not been "downgraded" a good bit? (Agree with your points mainly though)

Rates system needs overhauled big time. I think it's crippling businesses - small ones in particular. What's the choice here? Empty buildings and no rates or high rates? I think I hear ones saying it's between rates and VAT. (I would listen to a few of them but MIchael Deane does seem a bit full of it so not sure on his complaints...).
Rates are greater than the rent on many premises, unsustainable. LL's pay 1/2 on vacant premises but if they become derelict then nothing, so you can see  the direction of  travel for the high street. Again the base needs widened so that every one is treated fairly.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 15, 2024, 03:20:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 15, 2024, 02:46:15 PMHas causeway not been "downgraded" a good bit? (Agree with your points mainly though)

Rates system needs overhauled big time. I think it's crippling businesses - small ones in particular. What's the choice here? Empty buildings and no rates or high rates? I think I hear ones saying it's between rates and VAT. (I would listen to a few of them but MIchael Deane does seem a bit full of it so not sure on his complaints...).
The Trust takes the hit on downgrading of services within a hospital but they can obviously leave the blame (lack of resources) at the door of the politicians. Maternity got axed in Causeway recently I believe. There are far too many "bits" of hospitals around the place. We need fewer and better.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 16, 2024, 02:13:09 AM
some sinn fein councillers wont seek relection in donegal local   is that because they might be scared of a backlash against them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lurganblue on February 16, 2024, 09:17:17 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 15, 2024, 03:20:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 15, 2024, 02:46:15 PMHas causeway not been "downgraded" a good bit? (Agree with your points mainly though)

Rates system needs overhauled big time. I think it's crippling businesses - small ones in particular. What's the choice here? Empty buildings and no rates or high rates? I think I hear ones saying it's between rates and VAT. (I would listen to a few of them but MIchael Deane does seem a bit full of it so not sure on his complaints...).
The Trust takes the hit on downgrading of services within a hospital but they can obviously leave the blame (lack of resources) at the door of the politicians. Maternity got axed in Causeway recently I believe. There are far too many "bits" of hospitals around the place. We need fewer and better.

Have any of you been to Craigavon hospital recently? It is in a total mess. It is completely overran with people. Now I know there are major NHS problems contributing but to close more out lying facilities and funnel them to Craigavon sounds like a complete disaster. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 16, 2024, 09:22:18 AM
If we were "optimal" how many hospitals would we have and where would they be? How many would there be in Belfast? Where would the southern trust hospitals be? You'd need one in Derry. Is four in Belfast too many? I assume so?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 09:40:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 16, 2024, 09:22:18 AMIf we were "optimal" how many hospitals would we have and where would they be? How many would there be in Belfast? Where would the southern trust hospitals be? You'd need one in Derry. Is four in Belfast too many? I assume so?
Same with Daisy Hill. Can Craigavon take on all of Newry/South Down/South Armagh?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 16, 2024, 10:31:53 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 09:40:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 16, 2024, 09:22:18 AMIf we were "optimal" how many hospitals would we have and where would they be? How many would there be in Belfast? Where would the southern trust hospitals be? You'd need one in Derry. Is four in Belfast too many? I assume so?
Same with Daisy Hill. Can Craigavon take on all of Newry/South Down/South Armagh?

The idea would be hospitals focus on emergency and then elective care at specialist centres.
So my understanding is something like Ortho at Dundonald. Cardio at Enniskillen, Cancer Craigavon and so on.
For example - decisions on what and where hasn't been taken




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 10:59:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 16, 2024, 10:31:53 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 09:40:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 16, 2024, 09:22:18 AMIf we were "optimal" how many hospitals would we have and where would they be? How many would there be in Belfast? Where would the southern trust hospitals be? You'd need one in Derry. Is four in Belfast too many? I assume so?
Same with Daisy Hill. Can Craigavon take on all of Newry/South Down/South Armagh?

The idea would be hospitals focus on emergency and then elective care at specialist centres.
So my understanding is something like Ortho at Dundonald. Cardio at Enniskillen, Cancer Craigavon and so on.
For example - decisions on what and where hasn't been taken





I don't like the idea of someone from Enniskillen having to travel to Craigavon for chemo for example.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 10:59:43 AM
In fairness I pity anyone that has to travel to Craigavon in general hospital related or not! ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 16, 2024, 11:09:45 AM
The thing is I'd travel to Belfast, Craigavon or Newry for example if it was a first class service.  People going private have no issues travelling here and there because they know they're getting a good service.

The 6 counties is a relatively small area and I wouldn't expect a hospital to be 5 miles from me. People need a bit of perspective on this. Health is a huge issue but to expect to have 20 hospitals in the north, for our population is crazy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 16, 2024, 11:13:00 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 10:59:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 16, 2024, 10:31:53 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 09:40:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 16, 2024, 09:22:18 AMIf we were "optimal" how many hospitals would we have and where would they be? How many would there be in Belfast? Where would the southern trust hospitals be? You'd need one in Derry. Is four in Belfast too many? I assume so?
Same with Daisy Hill. Can Craigavon take on all of Newry/South Down/South Armagh?

The idea would be hospitals focus on emergency and then elective care at specialist centres.
So my understanding is something like Ortho at Dundonald. Cardio at Enniskillen, Cancer Craigavon and so on.
For example - decisions on what and where hasn't been taken





I don't like the idea of someone from Enniskillen having to travel to Craigavon for chemo for example.

Someone who lives in Yorkshire or the Highlands would travel that sort of distance
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 11:33:29 AM
I think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2024, 11:43:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 16, 2024, 09:22:18 AMIf we were "optimal" how many hospitals would we have and where would they be? How many would there be in Belfast? Where would the southern trust hospitals be? You'd need one in Derry. Is four in Belfast too many? I assume so?

How can there be too many when you have to wait 15 hours to be seen?!

The hospitals are being bogged down with minor injuries at A&E that should be funneled out to a minor injuries type A&E center

Mother in law has serious health issues after cancer treatment, bowel removed and other heart related issues, he's dementated with going to A&E due to her liver function dropping, he was up the other day and some lad came in with a cut finger!

To be fair there is no where he could go for that to be assessed so he's in there with the one struggling to breathe of other emergencies. But that adds on the time for being seen to everyone. Takes medical services away from the rest and a cubicle being used.

Use these out hospitals for such things, if the assessment requires them to be seen by specialists then arrange that at triage, people are dying in in corridor's, ambulances are being used as waiting areas and not out on the road.

There must be a shortage of staff and money to run the place as the buildings have plenty of room, just no one to look after them.

Either way however its being run now, isn't working and I can't see it getting better in my life time
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thebigfella on February 16, 2024, 11:57:39 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 11:33:29 AMI think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 16, 2024, 12:09:57 PM
Larne used to have TWO hospitals. There was a old caller on Talkback one day giving off that he has to drive to Antrim (20 mile) now.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 16, 2024, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 16, 2024, 11:57:39 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 11:33:29 AMI think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.

Yes, but they need to ensure that there is public transport to reach the location and that patients are not given appointments at 08:30 that they cannot reach. This type of joined up thinking does not exist.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: thebigfella on February 16, 2024, 01:12:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2024, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 16, 2024, 11:57:39 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 11:33:29 AMI think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.

Yes, but they need to ensure that there is public transport to reach the location and that patients are not given appointments at 08:30 that they cannot reach. This type of joined up thinking does not exist.

It would cost less to provide a car to collect and drop off every patient than build/operate a hospital just because public transport is non existent.

Yes it does need joined up thinking and proper logistics planning but now you're into the realms of building out "some unsustainable public transport routes" just in case people may need to access a service. By your logic they still need to be with 30-45mins door to door, which is just not realistic on public transport.

Also trying to predict suitable appointment times based upon their location, transport requirements and service they are availing would be a logistical nightmare. It's unlikely you could easily build interconnected systems to do it due to data privacy/security concerns.

The big problem I see is trying to solve logistics problem equally for everyone at the expense of the health service quality. The person who has a bus route outside their front door which drops off at the hospital 10 mins away is different than the person with no public transport routes (or private transport option) living 1 hour away. Yet if you offer a driver service for the person that requires it, the person who is 10 mins away will expect the same regardless of their circumstances. Blah blah, I pay national insurance ect.... You can't win.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 16, 2024, 02:19:00 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 16, 2024, 01:12:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2024, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 16, 2024, 11:57:39 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 11:33:29 AMI think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.

Yes, but they need to ensure that there is public transport to reach the location and that patients are not given appointments at 08:30 that they cannot reach. This type of joined up thinking does not exist.

It would cost less to provide a car to collect and drop off every patient than build/operate a hospital just because public transport is non existent.

Yes it does need joined up thinking and proper logistics planning but now you're into the realms of building out "some unsustainable public transport routes" just in case people may need to access a service. By your logic they still need to be with 30-45mins door to door, which is just not realistic on public transport.

Also trying to predict suitable appointment times based upon their location, transport requirements and service they are availing would be a logistical nightmare. It's unlikely you could easily build interconnected systems to do it due to data privacy/security concerns.

The big problem I see is trying to solve logistics problem equally for everyone at the expense of the health service quality. The person who has a bus route outside their front door which drops off at the hospital 10 mins away is different than the person with no public transport routes (or private transport option) living 1 hour away. Yet if you offer a driver service for the person that requires it, the person who is 10 mins away will expect the same regardless of their circumstances. Blah blah, I pay national insurance ect.... You can't win.

Reality is no one is going on public transport to get chemo or a heart bypass.
If you were sick enough you wouldn't complain how far you had to go for a top class service. Thinking that the best surgeons in the UK or Ireland want to live in Enniskillen (or Craigavon heaven forbid) to provide you a top class service then you are deluded.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on February 16, 2024, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 16, 2024, 01:12:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2024, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 16, 2024, 11:57:39 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 11:33:29 AMI think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.

Yes, but they need to ensure that there is public transport to reach the location and that patients are not given appointments at 08:30 that they cannot reach. This type of joined up thinking does not exist.

It would cost less to provide a car to collect and drop off every patient than build/operate a hospital just because public transport is non existent.

Yes it does need joined up thinking and proper logistics planning but now you're into the realms of building out "some unsustainable public transport routes" just in case people may need to access a service. By your logic they still need to be with 30-45mins door to door, which is just not realistic on public transport.

Also trying to predict suitable appointment times based upon their location, transport requirements and service they are availing would be a logistical nightmare. It's unlikely you could easily build interconnected systems to do it due to data privacy/security concerns.

The big problem I see is trying to solve logistics problem equally for everyone at the expense of the health service quality. The person who has a bus route outside their front door which drops off at the hospital 10 mins away is different than the person with no public transport routes (or private transport option) living 1 hour away. Yet if you offer a driver service for the person that requires it, the person who is 10 mins away will expect the same regardless of their circumstances. Blah blah, I pay national insurance ect.... You can't win.

I didn't make any statement about 40 mins etc, I merely said that you have to cater for all people in a feasible way, if that means providing them with taxis then that is an intrinsic cost and not an extra that you can cut off when it suits. At present these are seen as independent things.

As for appointment times, there is no reason why people living near the hospital and those far away could not be given different appointments, there is no data privacy involved, the hospital has your medical records and your address. That this is not done is laziness, not GDPR.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: StephenC on February 16, 2024, 04:37:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 16, 2024, 02:19:00 PMReality is no one is going on public transport to get chemo or a heart bypass.
If you were sick enough you wouldn't complain how far you had to go for a top class service. Thinking that the best surgeons in the UK or Ireland want to live in Enniskillen (or Craigavon heaven forbid) to provide you a top class service then you are deluded.

How do you think that people from Donegal get to Galway for Chemo? Someone drives them, they use public transport or they take the cancer bus.
The 'if you were sick enough ...' line is pretty crass.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 16, 2024, 06:54:04 PM
Surely it's relatively simple for one of their many expensive computer systems to lookup the address, distance from hospital and then perform at least some rough allocation of appointments. Although that would probably take £3 billion and 15 years to configure.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PM
Michelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Low and Hard on February 16, 2024, 10:12:33 PM
Really clear confident public speaker now, fair play! We are getting closer in the north.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: burdizzo on February 16, 2024, 10:17:15 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.

Thought the same. Dodged a lot of questions. I'd like to see a united Ireland, but one led by Sinn Fein? No thanks.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:21:22 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 16, 2024, 10:17:15 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.

Thought the same. Dodged a lot of questions. I'd like to see a united Ireland, but one led by Sinn Fein? No thanks.
Would you prefer to see Ireland north and south led by Sinn Fein as separate entities?
That's odd thinking.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?

The housing for immigrants issue for one. Went way of on a tangent. Then said we'll hear what people say and decide. They're meant to put up a position and face the electorate based on that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 16, 2024, 10:26:48 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?

The housing for immigrants issue for one. Went way of on a tangent. Then said we'll hear what people say and decide. They're meant to put up a position and face the electorate based on that.
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?

The housing for immigrants issue for one. Went way of on a tangent. Then said we'll hear what people say and decide. They're meant to put up a position and face the electorate based on that.

What party doesn't take on board public opinion to some extent?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Tubberman on February 16, 2024, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 16, 2024, 10:26:48 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?

The housing for immigrants issue for one. Went way of on a tangent. Then said we'll hear what people say and decide. They're meant to put up a position and face the electorate based on that.
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?

The housing for immigrants issue for one. Went way of on a tangent. Then said we'll hear what people say and decide. They're meant to put up a position and face the electorate based on that.

What party doesn't take on board public opinion to some extent?

Surely to God the party has a position on the matter though? And surely Michelle O'Neill knows what that position is?
Kielty let her off very easily on that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?

The housing for immigrants issue for one. Went way of on a tangent. Then said we'll hear what people say and decide. They're meant to put up a position and face the electorate based on that.
I'm not sure that's particularly true. Positions on anything aren't written in stone. Where they came from in northern politics to where they are today is testament to that.
Also, I'm sure she is aware that she can't anchor her party to anything on a Friday night light entertainment show nor does she want to castigate those in the electorate who are against her party on the refugee issue at present.
What did you expect her to say?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?

The housing for immigrants issue for one. Went way of on a tangent. Then said we'll hear what people say and decide. They're meant to put up a position and face the electorate based on that.
I'm not sure that's particularly true. Positions on anything aren't written in stone. Where they came from in northern politics to where they are today is testament to that.
Also, I'm sure she is aware that she can't anchor her party to anything on a Friday night light entertainment show nor does she want to castigate those in the electorate who are against her party on the refugee issue at present.
What did you expect her to say?

Isn't part of the reason they're slipping in polls is that they don't take a position on big issues. Same during covid, they kept saying we'll wait till there's more evidence. And just kicked can down road.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: ONeill on February 16, 2024, 10:34:13 PM
Impressive from Michelle. Cut the right tone from the start.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:35:45 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?

The housing for immigrants issue for one. Went way of on a tangent. Then said we'll hear what people say and decide. They're meant to put up a position and face the electorate based on that.
I'm not sure that's particularly true. Positions on anything aren't written in stone. Where they came from in northern politics to where they are today is testament to that.
Also, I'm sure she is aware that she can't anchor her party to anything on a Friday night light entertainment show nor does she want to castigate those in the electorate who are against her party on the refugee issue at present.
What did you expect her to say?

Isn't part of the reason they're slipping in polls is that they don't take a position on big issues. Same during covid, they kept saying we'll wait till there's more evidence. And just kicked can down road.
I don't know.

I think there is a lack of awareness of what the Late Late Show is though.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 20, 2024, 12:40:21 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on February 16, 2024, 09:17:17 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 15, 2024, 03:20:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 15, 2024, 02:46:15 PMHas causeway not been "downgraded" a good bit? (Agree with your points mainly though)

Rates system needs overhauled big time. I think it's crippling businesses - small ones in particular. What's the choice here? Empty buildings and no rates or high rates? I think I hear ones saying it's between rates and VAT. (I would listen to a few of them but MIchael Deane does seem a bit full of it so not sure on his complaints...).
The Trust takes the hit on downgrading of services within a hospital but they can obviously leave the blame (lack of resources) at the door of the politicians. Maternity got axed in Causeway recently I believe. There are far too many "bits" of hospitals around the place. We need fewer and better.

Have any of you been to Craigavon hospital recently? It is in a total mess. It is completely overran with people. Now I know there are major NHS problems contributing but to close more out lying facilities and funnel them to Craigavon sounds like a complete disaster. 
I unfortunately have had to visit CAH  a few times recently due to an ongoing health issue, I don't recognise that description. Though it is true that it like other hospitals faces undue pressure  in A&E. But so too does the GP, the OFH GP  service and as for Dentists. I was lucky if you'd call it that to be red flagged. I got quick efficient and professional service. My wife on the other hand had to pay  for a scan for a non urgent  issue. this whether  we like it or not  is the future. The only way we can afford health care is through  a hybrid service mixing private  and  public that is properly funded so that anyone  who has no access to private is seen quickly  in the HSC. Many jobs no offer private health schemes to attract staff. Those on pensions and benefits will need free access. This is a challenge which will also require Bengoa to be implemented. It will require the dropping of  unsustainable positions by all political parties on free universal health care our  economy is beyond that.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 20, 2024, 12:44:24 PM
On another matter the depressing questions asked by a few DUP MLA's during FM questions says more about that party's unwillingness to accept equality  than all  wee Jeff's soundbites put together. The questions include did she know Scappaticci. WTF has that got to do with EO policy. To be fair she answered well.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2024, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 20, 2024, 12:40:21 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on February 16, 2024, 09:17:17 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 15, 2024, 03:20:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 15, 2024, 02:46:15 PMHas causeway not been "downgraded" a good bit? (Agree with your points mainly though)

Rates system needs overhauled big time. I think it's crippling businesses - small ones in particular. What's the choice here? Empty buildings and no rates or high rates? I think I hear ones saying it's between rates and VAT. (I would listen to a few of them but MIchael Deane does seem a bit full of it so not sure on his complaints...).
The Trust takes the hit on downgrading of services within a hospital but they can obviously leave the blame (lack of resources) at the door of the politicians. Maternity got axed in Causeway recently I believe. There are far too many "bits" of hospitals around the place. We need fewer and better.

Have any of you been to Craigavon hospital recently? It is in a total mess. It is completely overran with people. Now I know there are major NHS problems contributing but to close more out lying facilities and funnel them to Craigavon sounds like a complete disaster. 
I unfortunately have had to visit CAH  a few times recently due to an ongoing health issue, I don't recognise that description. Though it is true that it like other hospitals faces undue pressure  in A&E. But so too does the GP, the OFH GP  service and as for Dentists. I was lucky if you'd call it that to be red flagged. I got quick efficient and professional service. My wife on the other hand had to pay  for a scan for a non urgent  issue. this whether  we like it or not  is the future. The only way we can afford health care is through  a hybrid service mixing private  and  public that is properly funded so that anyone  who has no access to private is seen quickly  in the HSC. Many jobs no offer private health schemes to attract staff. Those on pensions and benefits will need free access. This is a challenge which will also require Bengoa to be implemented. It will require the dropping of  unsustainable positions by all political parties on free universal health care our  economy is beyond that.

Getting ready for the All Ireland Health system (after the Referendum of course)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 20, 2024, 02:02:56 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2024, 10:18:54 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 16, 2024, 10:04:28 PMMichelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.

I like Michelle but a lot of soundbites and cliches. And usual Sinn Fein thing of sitting on fence on issues.
If ever a post described itself, it is this.

Could you put a bit more meat on the bones of what you mean?

The housing for immigrants issue for one. Went way of on a tangent. Then said we'll hear what people say and decide. They're meant to put up a position and face the electorate based on that.

A bit of a loaded question I'd have thought.

Sort out the housing issue for everyone, stop large funds buying huge swathes of housing stock en masse and then build more affordable housing, decentralised away from the Greater Dublin area and the immigrant issue goes away.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 20, 2024, 11:57:20 PM
so sinn fein want to overturn the referendum results  if  it goes against them so sinn fein are just political gangsters if vote goes against them they will say say sorry got to rerun it


yet people will bend over for these authoritarians especally in the north


one would have to question why are sinn so concerned about this referendum that would try and ignore the peoples choice
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 21, 2024, 02:02:12 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 20, 2024, 11:57:20 PMso sinn fein want to overturn the referendum results  if  it goes against them so sinn fein are just political gangsters if vote goes against them they will say say sorry got to rerun it


yet people will bend over for these authoritarians especally in the north


one would have to question why are sinn so concerned about this referendum that would try and ignore the peoples choice

The government  ignored the people's choice  in both the Nice and Lisbon treaties .
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 21, 2024, 07:33:44 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 20, 2024, 11:57:20 PMso sinn fein want to overturn the referendum results  if  it goes against them so sinn fein are just political gangsters if vote goes against them they will say say sorry got to rerun it


yet people will bend over for these authoritarians especally in the north


one would have to question why are sinn so concerned about this referendum that would try and ignore the peoples choice

Overturning a referendum and rerunning it are not the same thing.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 21, 2024, 09:32:58 AM
Are they only going to rerun it in an event of a no vote but if its a yes vote they will say thats ok
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2024, 01:55:34 PM
Dissident Arm na Poblachta claim two PSNI vehicles targeted in Co Derry
Security alert continues around Dungiven


https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/dissident-arm-na-poblachta-claim-two-psni-vehicles-targeted-in-co-derry-PGTRS55FSZDEFFHD7CDC3GSKO4/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Snapchap on February 27, 2024, 02:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 27, 2024, 01:55:34 PMDissident Arm na Poblachta claim two PSNI vehicles targeted in Co Derry
Security alert continues around Dungiven


https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/dissident-arm-na-poblachta-claim-two-psni-vehicles-targeted-in-co-derry-PGTRS55FSZDEFFHD7CDC3GSKO4/

Wrong thread, Eire90.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: marty34 on February 27, 2024, 04:39:55 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 27, 2024, 02:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 27, 2024, 01:55:34 PMDissident Arm na Poblachta claim two PSNI vehicles targeted in Co Derry
Security alert continues around Dungiven


https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/dissident-arm-na-poblachta-claim-two-psni-vehicles-targeted-in-co-derry-PGTRS55FSZDEFFHD7CDC3GSKO4/

Wrong thread, Eire90.

He knew, and we all know, what he is at!
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2024, 06:46:59 PM
i couldnt find any other thread to put it since this is the closest to a repuiblican thread i put it here
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 28, 2024, 08:46:43 AM
What do the resident SF stalwarts here think of Michelle O'Neill standing for the Charlie Windsor song?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2024, 08:58:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2024, 08:46:43 AMWhat do the resident SF stalwarts here think of Michelle O'Neill standing for the Charlie Windsor song?

First minister for all?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 28, 2024, 08:59:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2024, 08:46:43 AMWhat do the resident SF stalwarts here think of Michelle O'Neill standing for the Charlie Windsor song?
Sickens my hole but sure think that line was crossed when McGuinness met owl Lizzie. What was she meant to do boo it?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 09:03:04 AM
It's good politics.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2024, 09:04:58 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2024, 08:59:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2024, 08:46:43 AMWhat do the resident SF stalwarts here think of Michelle O'Neill standing for the Charlie Windsor song?
Sickens my hole but sure think that line was crossed when McGuinness met owl Lizzie. What was she meant to do boo it?

Would you stand for any other national anthem?
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on February 28, 2024, 09:14:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2024, 08:46:43 AMWhat do the resident SF stalwarts here think of Michelle O'Neill standing for the Charlie Windsor song?

I wouldn't exactly call myself an SF stalwart 8)  but it's grown up politics.  What's that old saying "Campaign in poetry, govern in prose"
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 28, 2024, 09:30:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2024, 08:58:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2024, 08:46:43 AMWhat do the resident SF stalwarts here think of Michelle O'Neill standing for the Charlie Windsor song?

First minister for all?
It's a pity that the IFA are not a sport for all organisation, playing a divisive anthem and embracing a loyalist rag as many NI only sports seem to do. For people of my generation growing up in the '60's the sight was some what galling having union jacks and GSTQ rammed down our throats at every opportunity. But at the same time I can understand the motivation.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: An Watcher on February 28, 2024, 09:43:03 AM
I would say it annoys the unionists/loyalists more than the republicans/nationalists.  While it isn't great it is worthwhile doing on the long run
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2024, 09:46:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 28, 2024, 09:30:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2024, 08:58:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2024, 08:46:43 AMWhat do the resident SF stalwarts here think of Michelle O'Neill standing for the Charlie Windsor song?

First minister for all?
It's a pity that the IFA are not a sport for all organisation, playing a divisive anthem and embracing a loyalist rag as many NI only sports seem to do. For people of my generation growing up in the '60's the sight was some what galling having union jacks and GSTQ rammed down our throats at every opportunity. But at the same time I can understand the motivation.

Which is surprising (considering how many catholics play organised soccer) for them and a loss of potentially world class players from ever turning out for them or parents even encouraging their kids to try 'new' sports outside of GAA.

Personally I never had any hang ups about flegs and anthems. I know its weaponised here by many but do we just allow others to have their culture (rightly or wrongly) and ignore it?  or do we constantly have angst and continue the sectarian culture, which for me has got worse since social media came on the scene
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 28, 2024, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2024, 09:46:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 28, 2024, 09:30:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2024, 08:58:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2024, 08:46:43 AMWhat do the resident SF stalwarts here think of Michelle O'Neill standing for the Charlie Windsor song?

First minister for all?
It's a pity that the IFA are not a sport for all organisation, playing a divisive anthem and embracing a loyalist rag as many NI only sports seem to do. For people of my generation growing up in the '60's the sight was some what galling having union jacks and GSTQ rammed down our throats at every opportunity. But at the same time I can understand the motivation.

Which is surprising (considering how many catholics play organised soccer) for them and a loss of potentially world class players from ever turning out for them or parents even encouraging their kids to try 'new' sports outside of GAA.

Personally I never had any hang ups about flegs and anthems. I know its weaponised here by many but do we just allow others to have their culture (rightly or wrongly) and ignore it?  or do we constantly have angst and continue the sectarian culture, which for me has got worse since social media came on the scene
They certainly can have their culture, flags and bands. But the NI team are meant to be representative of all.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 09:50:23 AM
Flags hanging round the place are a sign of insecurity tbh. Triumphalism and inseccurity.

As someone here said it's grown up politics. The way she will look at it is there are two teams on this island so she can support both.

I think it's hard when you are of a certain age to see NI as a team for all. I don't mind seeing them do well but when things like Neil Lennon, Anton Rogan etc happen and also when they play their games where they do then it can be hard to see past that and you could never fully, fully, support them.

Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Ethan Tremblay on February 28, 2024, 10:13:44 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 09:50:23 AMFlags hanging round the place are a sign of insecurity tbh. Triumphalism and inseccurity.

As someone here said it's grown up politics. The way she will look at it is there are two teams on this island so she can support both.

I think it's hard when you are of a certain age to see NI as a team for all. I don't mind seeing them do well but when things like Neil Lennon, Anton Rogan etc happen and also when they play their games where they do then it can be hard to see past that and you could never fully, fully, support them.



I have always carried this view.  When I see a flag in a housing estate etc always makes me think how insecure you would have to be to have to have that flying for no other reason than identifying to "the other side" who lives here. 

In terms of supporting the NI team, I would want to see them do well, but their core fan base is just rotten and backwards. 
I wouldn't be going into the south belfast ni supports club for a pint pre-game, and I don't think an invitation would be extended to the first minister or the gaa president anytime soon either. 
 




Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 28, 2024, 10:44:35 AM
I find it very strange that  Norn Iron  still play GSTQ/K at all , considering Wales and Scotland are very comfortable belting out their own  anthems
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 10:47:48 AM
I also think this is an insecurity thing tbh. I would also say some "die hards" would be reluctant to change it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 28, 2024, 10:57:01 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 09:50:23 AMFlags hanging round the place are a sign of insecurity tbh. Triumphalism and inseccurity.

As someone here said it's grown up politics. The way she will look at it is there are two teams on this island so she can support both.

I think it's hard when you are of a certain age to see NI as a team for all. I don't mind seeing them do well but when things like Neil Lennon, Anton Rogan etc happen and also when they play their games where they do then it can be hard to see past that and you could never fully, fully, support them.


I doubt Michelle gives a flying f**k about the norths team tbh but it's good optics and backing up her first minister for all slogan.

Personally hope the bigoted c***ts get bate 8 nil every game and their bigoted supporters all get the clap off their sisters.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2024, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2024, 10:57:01 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 09:50:23 AMFlags hanging round the place are a sign of insecurity tbh. Triumphalism and inseccurity.

As someone here said it's grown up politics. The way she will look at it is there are two teams on this island so she can support both.

I think it's hard when you are of a certain age to see NI as a team for all. I don't mind seeing them do well but when things like Neil Lennon, Anton Rogan etc happen and also when they play their games where they do then it can be hard to see past that and you could never fully, fully, support them.


I doubt Michelle gives a flying f**k about the norths team tbh but it's good optics and backing up her first minister for all slogan.

Personally hope the bigoted c***ts get bate 8 nil every game and their bigoted supporters all get the clap off their sisters.

Yeah, this attitude is helpful in convincing people that Ireland is an inclusive society  ::)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: lurganblue on February 28, 2024, 11:02:04 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 28, 2024, 10:44:35 AMI find it very strange that  Norn Iron  still play GSTQ/K at all , considering Wales and Scotland are very comfortable belting out their own  anthems

What is their alternative?  Ive heard Oh Danny Boy mentioned. It would put ya to sleep and sure they cant even agree on the name of it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 28, 2024, 11:31:16 AM
the six proud counties of northern irelandddd
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: tiempo on February 28, 2024, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 09:03:04 AMIt's good politics.

Senior hurling, Unionists can't handle the trojan horse of equality so rub it up them

Oh she stood for a song, big f**king deal, now hand back those 6 counties you robbing bastards 😊
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: weareros on February 28, 2024, 11:47:17 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on February 28, 2024, 11:02:04 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 28, 2024, 10:44:35 AMI find it very strange that  Norn Iron  still play GSTQ/K at all , considering Wales and Scotland are very comfortable belting out their own  anthems

What is their alternative?  Ive heard Oh Danny Boy mentioned. It would put ya to sleep and sure they cant even agree on the name of it.

I had heard your man John Laverty journalist who was discussing Casement the other night once propose Be Thou My Vision. It's a hymn of Irish origin. Or as we used to sing in our house when the old black and white Ferguson broke down: F#%€ that Television, the scourge of our heart...
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: johnnycool on February 28, 2024, 12:14:06 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 28, 2024, 11:31:16 AMthe six proud counties of northern irelandddd

From the shítey glens of Antrim
From the rolling mountains of Mourne
From the walls of Derry/Londonderry Sir,(delete as applicable)
and Fermanagh's Lakes and wood burning boilers, Tyrone's bushes and doughnutting twin cams,
And the fine washed diesel from Armagh

From the 6ix proud counties of Norn Iron/North of Ireland/Occupied State.

Rolls off the tongue.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 12:18:28 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2024, 10:57:01 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 09:50:23 AMFlags hanging round the place are a sign of insecurity tbh. Triumphalism and inseccurity.

As someone here said it's grown up politics. The way she will look at it is there are two teams on this island so she can support both.

I think it's hard when you are of a certain age to see NI as a team for all. I don't mind seeing them do well but when things like Neil Lennon, Anton Rogan etc happen and also when they play their games where they do then it can be hard to see past that and you could never fully, fully, support them.


I doubt Michelle gives a flying f**k about the norths team tbh but it's good optics and backing up her first minister for all slogan.

Personally hope the bigoted c***ts get bate 8 nil every game and their bigoted supporters all get the clap off their sisters.

They have *some* bigoted supporters but I know plenty that support them and not a bigoted bone in their body. You hear this - I remember when they were in the euros buff egan was saying that in the fan zone in belfast everyone there was singing "up to their neck in fenian blood". Quite simply didn't happen. Yes there are supporters that will be bigoted but most fanbases will have that. Plenty sang the james mcclean f**k the queen song at ireland games too.

(To be more inclusive they need to look at anthems and getting to hell away from the village area mind you)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: trailer on February 28, 2024, 12:59:12 PM
Michelle is playing a blinder. Straight out of the SDLP playbook. Fair play to her.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 28, 2024, 01:22:09 PM
Out of interest, what do you recommend for  a new All Ireland anthem when  a United Ireland happens?

For me, it has to be Ghost Town by  The Specials
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 28, 2024, 02:09:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 12:18:28 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2024, 10:57:01 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2024, 09:50:23 AMFlags hanging round the place are a sign of insecurity tbh. Triumphalism and inseccurity.

As someone here said it's grown up politics. The way she will look at it is there are two teams on this island so she can support both.

I think it's hard when you are of a certain age to see NI as a team for all. I don't mind seeing them do well but when things like Neil Lennon, Anton Rogan etc happen and also when they play their games where they do then it can be hard to see past that and you could never fully, fully, support them.


I doubt Michelle gives a flying f**k about the norths team tbh but it's good optics and backing up her first minister for all slogan.

Personally hope the bigoted c***ts get bate 8 nil every game and their bigoted supporters all get the clap off their sisters.

They have *some* bigoted supporters but I know plenty that support them and not a bigoted bone in their body. You hear this - I remember when they were in the euros buff egan was saying that in the fan zone in belfast everyone there was singing "up to their neck in fenian blood". Quite simply didn't happen. Yes there are supporters that will be bigoted but most fanbases will have that. Plenty sang the james mcclean f**k the queen song at ireland games too.

(To be more inclusive they need to look at anthems and getting to hell away from the village area mind you)
I think we can all accept that, unfortunately it is the bigots who insist on the status quo with anthem and flag and the IFA seem to concur. What is wrong with using the assembly flag of the linen flower and even Danny Boy.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: HiMucker on February 28, 2024, 02:31:15 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 28, 2024, 01:22:09 PMOut of interest, what do you recommend for  a new All Ireland anthem when  a United Ireland happens?

For me, it has to be Ghost Town by  The Specials
For me, and being mindful to be inclusive, A nation once again would be a good shout.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on February 28, 2024, 03:39:48 PM
Ár Oileann Álainn/ Our Lovely Island/ Oor nice bot o groond in the say
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: sensethetone on February 28, 2024, 04:17:46 PM
Will Grigg's on fire.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 28, 2024, 09:47:44 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 28, 2024, 02:31:15 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 28, 2024, 01:22:09 PMOut of interest, what do you recommend for  a new All Ireland anthem when  a United Ireland happens?

For me, it has to be Ghost Town by  The Specials
For me, and being mindful to be inclusive, A nation once again would be a good shout.

A Wolfe Tones tune? Themmuns wouldn't allow it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 29, 2024, 08:08:48 AM
Moore  Holmes on twitter ranting about MON at  Windsor. These guys  will never accept equality or give respect in return.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on February 29, 2024, 08:10:36 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 28, 2024, 09:47:44 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 28, 2024, 02:31:15 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 28, 2024, 01:22:09 PMOut of interest, what do you recommend for  a new All Ireland anthem when  a United Ireland happens?

For me, it has to be Ghost Town by  The Specials
For me, and being mindful to be inclusive, A nation once again would be a good shout.

A Wolfe Tones tune? Themmuns wouldn't allow it.

And that's just Fine Gael
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Rossfan on March 11, 2024, 11:00:27 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2024/0311/1437155-billy-fox-anniversary/
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2024, 12:45:03 PM
Why did the Shinners support the referendums ? In some areas 80% of SF voters rejected the proposals.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Pub Bore on March 11, 2024, 01:14:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2024, 12:45:03 PMWhy did the Shinners support the referendums ? In some areas 80% of SF voters rejected the proposals.

Few people were brave enough to back "No", except the voters of course!  I think SF were wary of always being portrayed the party that says "No".  They should have gone with their gut.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2024, 02:10:03 PM
« If they can get you asking the wrong questions they don't have to worry about the answers »

Thomas Pynchon

If the Shinners want a durable relationship with voters they must strive to understand what they need
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on March 12, 2024, 12:59:24 AM
sinn fein say they wont be rerunning referendum if in power looks like they seen the result and got spooked and now they know what would happen if they even dared.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Eire90 on March 23, 2024, 10:57:16 PM
sinn fein  continue to slide in the polls not looking good for them.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2024, 08:32:41 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 23, 2024, 10:57:16 PMsinn fein  continue to slide in the polls not looking good for them.

I think the IRSP will fill that gap ;)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 27, 2024, 06:35:30 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4nl58ejvgdo

Didn't know Sinn Fein had exclusive rights to the tricolour. 
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:54:44 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 27, 2024, 06:35:30 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4nl58ejvgdo

Didn't know Sinn Fein had exclusive rights to the tricolour. 

Did she say that? I don't think so. I think a scummy **** like him should have been buried in a ditch somewhere, no flag.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Brendan on March 27, 2024, 08:39:07 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 27, 2024, 06:35:30 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4nl58ejvgdo

Didn't know Sinn Fein had exclusive rights to the tricolour. 

She gave an opinion not a directive. Whatever group done all the theatrics at this funeral, why would you even want to be associated with someone like that and give them some sort of hero's send off
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 28, 2024, 10:13:40 AM
Quote from: Brendan on March 27, 2024, 08:39:07 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 27, 2024, 06:35:30 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4nl58ejvgdo

Didn't know Sinn Fein had exclusive rights to the tricolour. 

She gave an opinion not a directive. Whatever group done all the theatrics at this funeral, why would you even want to be associated with someone like that and give them some sort of hero's send off
Any excuse to criticise. I'd be more critical of their love in with GSTK and the GAWA, legitimising the IFA's sectarian approach to the"national team." At least the Scots get it.
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: armaghniac on April 11, 2024, 09:26:01 PM
SF always wanted independents for Ireland, and they are getting their way

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GK5VnSUWoAAPBJ5?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
Post by: joemamas on April 11, 2024, 09:53:15 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 23, 2024, 10:57:16 PMsinn fein  continue to slide in the polls not looking good for them.

Was that poll taken in Kerry, (Kerryforsam)
maybe they polled all your aliases.
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