Northern Ireland The Centenary of OWC

[BennyCake]

To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.

I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.

Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.

[Rossfan]

Many Unionists claimed that "NI" was created for them to have a State of their own while 'we" got our own State in the 26.
Anyone who wanted to be Irish or fly Tricolour etc were free to do so by pissing off across the border.
Didn't Paisly once boast that "There are no Nationalist areas in Northern Ireland"

[6th sam]

Many Unionists claimed that "NI" was created for them to have a State of their own while 'we" got our own State in the 26.
Anyone who wanted to be Irish or fly Tricolour etc were free to do so by pissing off across the border.
Didn't Paisly once boast that "There are no Nationalist areas in Northern Ireland"

Only decades after "the famine", and in throes of insurrection by a "disloyal " population, Britain came up with a plan, to keep a foothold on the island in a gerrymandered and advantaged statelet, and offload the "disloyal rabble" . How on earth did Collins and the "freestaters" sign up to a woefully disadvantaged 26, allowing Britain to retain the economic powerhouse of Antrim and Down? Britain clearly  calculated that if they made the 6  counties Unapologetically British and discriminated against the Catholic's, more would leave to the South , further reinforcing the majority and a "Protestant state for a Protestant people".
Northern nationalists will justifiably claim they were "sold out By the free staters in '21" but in reality Southerners were also sold a pup. It's a tribute to the resilience of the 26 county population, that after several decades of extreme poverty and immigration they were able to make a success of ROI. Notwithstanding ongoing significant challenges around poverty homelessness and health, in most parameters ROI scores very well, and blows a heavily subsidised NI out of the water , on most things.
The reason NI has failed is that the stubborn NI nationalists did not leave their homeland , we stayed , and basically made NI ungovernable as we became an increasing minority( now a majority) , as many of us had no loyalty or affiliation to a state that hardly recognised our existence.
To make this island work, we need to learn the lessons of the past. In a 32 county context unionists form a similar sized minority to catholics in NI in '21. How can we ensure that this minority is championed, protected and engaged in any new constitutional arrangement?

[Rossfan]

In 1921 the Brits had already set up "Northern Ireland" and "Southern Ireland" in their 1920 Act.
The Treaty discussions were in effect to decide the Status of the 26 Counties. And of course nod nod wink wink the Boundary Commission will reduce the size of "NI" as you'll get Derry City, South Armagh, South Down and most of Fermanagh and Tyrone.

[general_lee]

I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.

I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.

Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.

The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased  Willie Fraser.

They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade.  Even your more moderate  "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.

Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.

100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.

[naka]

actually reading a book at the moment
"without a dog`s chance 2the nationalists of Ni) and the boundary commission."
whilst it is an academic book it really gives insight as to how the northern nationalists were really told to keep quiet and it will be all right.
unionists had aready decided that they were never going to get involved in the boundary commission because they realised that anything less than what they had was making NI untenable.
its a sad read.

[6th sam]

I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.

I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.

Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.

The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased  Willie Fraser.

They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade.  Even your more moderate  "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.

Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.

100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.

Tbf the "fleg culture" has had a recent positive spin . I'm sure Johnnycool can relate to this. Going in to Newtownards recently  I noticed the "Thank you NHS" flags on every lamppost . NHS workers will no doubt feel valued, and motivated that someone had gone to that trouble to show their support , never mind the expense of bulk buying all those "Thank you NHS" flags superimposed on a Union Jack 🇬🇧 🤔

[Main Street]

To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.

You're not less that full Irish citizens but your Irish citizenship is second class in NI. It is your British nationality which gives you equality in NI under the law. Instead of seeing the GFA as a place to move forward from, the strategy of DUP and their like is to stall or/and pull back on the advances made in the  GFA.  In fact the DUP understand that better than Irish nationals. Whereas the next step for NI  is to have the GFA identity paragraphs  and other stuff be brought into law. 

That for Irish nationals born in NI,  the Irish nationality alone is  treated equal under the law as  British Nationality.
That any NI born can chose now to discard their British nationality free of cost. that those born in the  future in NI are only automatically a British national if at least one of their parents is a British national. That for one born in NI  who has no parents who are a British national, still qualifies to obtain a British nationality should they so desire.

[johnnycool]

I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.

I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.

Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.

The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased  Willie Fraser.

They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade.  Even your more moderate  "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.

Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.

100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.

Tbf the "fleg culture" has had a recent positive spin . I'm sure Johnnycool can relate to this. Going in to Newtownards recently  I noticed the "Thank you NHS" flags on every lamppost . NHS workers will no doubt feel valued, and motivated that someone had gone to that trouble to show their support , never mind the expense of bulk buying all those "Thank you NHS" flags superimposed on a Union Jack 🇬🇧 🤔

I'm always shocked the Newtownards isn't awash with Best Kept Town awards as it's so colourful at this time of year.

[Orior]

I wonder will anyone from the nationalist community be celebrating the foundation of the state in which they live? The state that discriminated against them for 50 years. The state that only reflects the culture and ethnicity of just over 50% of the population whilst denying the other 50% any recognition. The state that has allowed a loyalist banner become it's "national flag" and one that equates Irish culture language and sport with sectarianism. Personally for me no.

Glad you added the last sentence because I just wasn't sure what side of the fence you were sitting on, lol.

[Milltown Row2]

I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.

I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.

Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.

The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased  Willie Fraser.

They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade.  Even your more moderate  "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.

Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.

100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.

You did grow up here during the troubles? The amount of bombs that went off in Belfast alone which caused huge damage and clean up, more than your 11th and 12th days currently, the rate hikes would have the same i'd assume

[Orior]

I won't use the term "Northern Ireland" if I can help it. I'll just say the north, the 6 counties etc.
Tbh, it doesn't bother me that much when people say it. If I ever hear Britain referred to as "the mainland" (TM) though... *shudder*

Same here.

[Orior]

I'm surprised that nobody has posted Jim Allister's grand plan for the centerary....

In a meeting with NIO Minister of State, Robin Walker MP, Jim Allister set out his party's vision and expectations for the centenary in 2021 of the creation of Northern Ireland.

Among the proposals put by TUV were the following:
•   Since the centenary marks not just the creation of Northern Ireland but the U.K. as presently constituted, this must be a national celebration;
•   A visit by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and royal address to the Northern Ireland Assembly and large scale Garden Party;
•   The flying of the national flag on all public buildings on each key date;
•   An additional public holiday in or about 3rd May;
•   A Red Arrows fly past and visit of leading Royal Navy vessels;
•   A special Royal Mail stamp collection;
•   A specially minted commemorative coin, with presentation to every schoolchild and centenary specific classroom materials;
•   A specially commissioned logo to brand and promote all events;
•   A U.K. Government cabinet meeting in Belfast to mark the centenary with Prime Ministerial promotional visits to key tourist attractions;
•   An exhibition in the National Portrait Gallery in London of key NI figures in sports, military, arts, politics etc over our first 100 years, which would then tour the rest of the U.K.;
•   Promotion of Northern Ireland industry, including our food and drink products;
•   Special honour and remembrance of all security personnel who gave their lives in defence of Northern Ireland, with a particular focus at the 2021 Remembrance Event in the Royal Albert Hall.


Mr Allister stressed to the Government that it must take control of the organising of the celebrations because if left to the Stormont Executive they would be neutered by the pernicious Sinn Fein veto.

Mr Allister also stressed that these events were about celebrating Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom and, therefore, they were not an occasion to be muddied by Dublin involvement.

Finally, the TUV leader reminded Minister Walker the current government was elected on a pledge to "never be neutral on the Union". (Conservative Election Manifesto 2019). 2021 should, therefore, be one of celebration for Northern Ireland and a year when the rest of the country is reminded that the UK is – in the words of the Tory manifesto – "stronger and richer for Northern Ireland being part of it"

[RedHand88]

Thats absolutely hilarious. Classic Jim. They would need to be starting the planning soon if he's expecting all that! 

[Tony Baloney]

Thats absolutely hilarious. Classic Jim. They would need to be starting the planning soon if he's expecting all that! 

Will take the holiday but he can keep the rest