Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball

[Estimator]

At what stage do we start to realise we are insecure about our game?

The 1990 World Cup was shit beyond shit. No calls for rule changes.

Apart from the small matter of keepers no longer being allow to pick up back passes.

Yeah, that was meant to improve the game yet the next World Cup final (1994) was settled on penalties after extra time with no goals scored.

I've watched the game back a few times now, since attending the game on Sunday, and still find it intriguing viewing. Yes, the first 10minutes had 0 scores, but on another day Donegal probably should've been 4-2 up at that point, if you look at the (scorable) wides, blocks and dropped short before the Derry goal.

Don't think the rule-makers need to get involved, but if they do, they need to out-work the impact of any rule change on the game... Speak to former intercounty managers etc and get them to figure out worst case scenarios for any new rule, ie what the modern tacticians would do to circumvent these rules. Before any limited trialling takes place.

I dunno how many times I've watched derry down 94 on tg4, often quoted as one of the greatest games of all time, and it was for it's era but watch it back now and some of the kick passing is awful, just launching it into full forward line.

Very true, and what did Derry score in one of the greatest games of all time...1-12

[general_lee]

90s football was crap compared to modern football and you could probably count on one hand the amount of games from the 90s or any other decade that were remotely close to the standard of today's top intercounty teams - has any other full back scored 3 points from play in an Ulster final?

As a neutral, I thoroughly enjoyed the match - tactically fascinating with a brilliant atmosphere and tense finish. The doomsday merchants (see "purists")  have been lamenting the demise of our games since 2003. Donegal in 2012 came and went and the world still hasn't ended.

[Silver hill]

Both teams in ulster final scored 1-12 I think in normal time, that would be enough to win you half of the all ireland finals in the 90s. People need to take their nostalgia goggles off. Football back then was hoofball, there is far more skill and tactics involved now. If you can't enjoy different types of games and different styles sport isn't for you.

I agree with that.
Some dire games back in the 90s and 00s.

Armagh started with a sweeper, then Tyrone took it to another level.
Mcguinness went up a level again and the game has now potentially evolved further.

Lots of comments here about teams refusing to take risks....do we not coach kids from no age that when passing the ball that they make the smart choice and make the safe pass so the other team doesn't get possession? We coach them that they can't attack without the ball....the other team can't score without the ball. We coach the basic skills of handpassing and kickpassing. But now some are suggesting those basic principals of the game are ruining the game! They seem to be saying that you want to defend...but not too much. You need to retain possession....but not too much possession. You need to pass....but not too often, or not too much of the same pass or only in certain directions. It really is a ridiculous argument imo.

Suggesting no backpassess after a certain distance up the field, or timers for attack are just non-runners (regardless of intent) as how on earth would you ever coach underage kids to do that? Perhaps these suggestions are only for county senior team? It would ruin the game at underage level and just result in a whole different set of problems.

I'm all for changing rules if it's for the benefit of the game but I don't see any suggestions on here (apart from one of potentially reducing teams to 13 aside) that might improve the game.
The biggest issue with the game right now is not keep ball, it's the lack of competitive games up and down the country.
That's where changes need to be made, if any. I'm not sure the new structures will improve things....I'm not a really fan of devaluing the provincial championships either so I don't really have an answer on how to improve competitiveness.
I do know Ulster is highly competitive and as a result highly entertaining in comparison to all the other provinces. I really hope we don't lose that.

Kids aren't thick. If the rule was that you can't pass the ball back once you cross the half way line then they will easily pick that up. In the same way that they know not to bounce the ball twice or pick it off the ground. It's not complicated.

[Derryman forever]

You are right it's not the kids are thick it is the commentators  that think every game should be a replica of the previous game, going back to whenever that particular individual thinks "the best" football was played. If there is no room for variety of game with tactics and counter tactics, can I suggest tiddlywinks for them.

[thewobbler]

I know Derry have been poorly supported for the past decade, but did they watch any football at all? it's kind of strange how many of them think this discussion is about Sunday's match. Do they even know how Jimmy McGuinness is?

Derry wans, do us a favour and back away from this thread. Nobody here is attacking Derry. Nobody here is trying to find ways to stop you folks winning another Ulster.

This has been running for a full decade.

[cornerback]

The gaa have constantly tinkered with the rules and it seems that they have had little effect on the style of play that managers employ.  I don't know what the "solution" is or even if there needs to be a solution.
For example, posters comment that soccer introduced the back pass rule; gaa introduced their version of the back pass from the keepers kick-out but managers/teams just ensure they have an additional player back to receive the next pass rather than the goalkeeper.
I would draw some parallels between this style of play and the "park the bus" tactic in soccer - soccer fans are no longer up-in-arms about this tactic; they see it as a legitimate way of getting a result and the authorities aren't trying to come up with rules to counteract it - it's up to the managers and teams to counteract it with their own style.

[Derryman forever]

So which county are you from that makes your opinion more valid than mine?

[uimhr ocht]

it was a nervy edgy tactical final with both teams mirroring each other it was always going to be like this,to score 1;12 wasnt bad scoring considering 15 men behind the ball in 1993 we only scored 1;14 in all ire final with no such tactics being deployed back then,credit were credit is due.

[onefineday]

I despair reading what some of ye are writing on here, there are none so blind as those who will not see.
Mario, that's the point, we want the odd ball kicked in, we want the risk, we want brolly or Linden contesting possession with scullion or burns.  Who was that 91 final against, newbridge, castledawson maybe?
General Lee, 90's football was crap?? - I watched many's the game in the 90's and thoroughly enjoyed them, same with the noughties and the same with this 2010's, the eighties too if truth be told!
There's no point in looking back and judging games from another era by standards of today, you can only judge them by the standards of their time.
Today's top players are better conditioned and prepared. Equipment, gloves, balls, GPS all much better than ever before. Players are much more tactically aware, they understand where and when to shoot, they get how to make loop runs and backdoor runs, they will score more from less possessions. But none of that means feck all if most neutrals are bored with it all.
Being a Derry man I was totally invested in Sunday's game, gripped by it and incredibly proud of the commitment and work put in by the squad, but I knew that a lot of what we saw was not pretty on the eye. When I got home, checked my various WhatsApp groups and almost to a man they were decrying what we'd seen. And these are mostly gaa people. They're fellow underage coaches, committee members etc. All recognised Derry's achievement, but nobody happy with much of what they saw - I didn't bother pointing out that it was pretty similar to how the club senior team played a cship semi final last year, or that Dublin are amongst the worst keep ball protagonists, I'll save that until the club social night in a few weeks😁.
This is a blight on the game at all levels, time to trial some rule at adaptions, that way the efforts of the players will get the audience and acknowledgment they deserve and if it allows us to have more top class and exciting games, won't we all be winners.
That said, the most important element of any good game is to have evenly matched teams, now that's another day's work!
Btw Mario, I never enjoyed that Celtic park classic in 94 myself.

[Eire90]

provincial championships have been devalued since backdoor came in

[Derryman forever]

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/03/news/the-ulster-final-beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder-2731953/


This is well written article,  and I recommend  it to everyone who wants each game if football to mirror the one before it.
I want variety, I want tactics, I want to see the high level of concentration and self discipline it takes to play a game like last Sunday. Not every game but occasionally  . Neither do I want to see teams like Dublin and Kerry annihilate naive opossition, that think they are too good to learn how to defrnd and keep possession.

[magpie seanie]

I'll be brief. No rule changes needed. Enforce the 4 steps rule and handpass rule. Give defenders a chance 1 on 1. Players in possession are given too much time to make decisions (overcarrying is standard) and if they make any sort of attempt at a striking action it's allowed. Guarantee if these rules were enforced team wouldn't be able to maintain possession so easily like they do now.

[Ghost]

Maybe already  been suggested but would it be  beneficial to reduce teams to 13 aside. Teams would set up in the same way but fewer players would obviously create more spaces and hopefully encourage players to drive forward more with less lateral hand passing.

Anyone yearning for a return to long ball after long ball is living in cloud cuckoo land...

[yellowcard]

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/03/news/the-ulster-final-beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder-2731953/


This is well written article,  and I recommend  it to everyone who wants each game if football to mirror the one before it.
I want variety, I want tactics, I want to see the high level of concentration and self discipline it takes to play a game like last Sunday. Not every game but occasionally  . Neither do I want to see teams like Dublin and Kerry annihilate naive opossition, that think they are too good to learn how to defrnd and keep possession.

Everybody has a different idea of the way they would like gaelic football to look like. If Sunday's spectacle was the norm then it's certainly not something that I want to watch. The only reason I kept watching was the fact that it was an Ulster final and that there was a chance of Derry winning their first title in 24 years. If I was watching that stuff every week in club football I would probably stop attending. 

I don't really get the relevance of a world cup final from 12 years ago in a completely different sport. The retention of possession in soccer is much different and much more difficult than it is in gaelic football and requires a high level of technical ability. You can't do what Spain done with poor or even average players. What we see in gaelic football is keep ball outside the 65 metre line that requires little or no skill level whatsoever. 

[restorepride]

I know Derry have been poorly supported for the past decade, but did they watch any football at all? it's kind of strange how many of them think this discussion is about Sunday's match. Do they even know how Jimmy McGuinness is?

Derry wans, do us a favour and back away from this thread. Nobody here is attacking Derry. Nobody here is trying to find ways to stop you folks winning another Ulster.

This has been running for a full decade.

You have just managed to attacked Derry! No favours for a dictatorship like the one you want - back away?!! Some chance - we are Ulster Champions.